The Incomparable

19: This Podcast Never Existed

 

  the incomparable podcast number 19 for [TS]

  january to ntlm if the new year and time [TS]

  for a new edition of the incomparable [TS]

  podcast welcome everybody I'm Jason [TS]

  smell your host with me today i have two [TS]

  guests for our exciting incomparable [TS]

  book club yes we've managed to kill just [TS]

  about everyone else but to remain alive [TS]

  and they enter our Thunderdome here [TS]

  today from the Pacific Northwest Glenn [TS]

  fleischmann thank you for reading the [TS]

  book you are very welcome [TS]

  somebody had to do it and from the east [TS]

  coast from Philadelphia lonely no longer [TS]

  Scott McNulty thank you for being [TS]

  literate Scotty you know I think this is [TS]

  what happens to all book clubs isn't it [TS]

  slowly people just stopped coming [TS]

  it's oh you mean the next one will be [TS]

  Jason talking to himself [TS]

  yes I either that or it'll be me talking [TS]

  to my digitized version of dan more'n [TS]

  likely back and debate things with it at [TS]

  my leisure so are our topic today [TS]

  primary topic first topic is a the the [TS]

  book selection which is how to live [TS]

  safely in a science fictional universe [TS]

  which is by Charles you believe Charles [TS]

  you that that is correct [TS]

  alright uh and this is a very peculiar [TS]

  book blend you want to kind of step us [TS]

  through kind of the overview of what [TS]

  this what this book is [TS]

  I'm going to give it a try it some I [TS]

  think it's you know I think it's very [TS]

  interesting book because it's it has a [TS]

  feel [TS]

  I'll give me like the big picture as a [TS]

  feel of some of that new science fiction [TS]

  stuff from like the nineteen sixties and [TS]

  seventies when everyone was tired of the [TS]

  Golden Age and then the Silver Age it [TS]

  also have exploded into Harlan Ellison [TS]

  and things that were almost unreadable [TS]

  but they were different right so there's [TS]

  a little bit of a picture of this this [TS]

  is not unreadable but it's it's very [TS]

  difficult reading so it's I come to the [TS]

  plot it's like all right well I think [TS]

  this is what happened you know it's not [TS]

  that I got a ray gun and charged across [TS]

  the universe and killed this blog's and [TS]

  one girl you know which i have been [TS]

  reading books like that recently i'm in [TS]

  this book [TS]

  let's say they think almost anything i [TS]

  say my trigger the spoiler horn but i'll [TS]

  start slow so it appears to be there is [TS]

  a gentleman who is a time machine repair [TS]

  prepare right i mean i think we can [TS]

  agree on that we can and his name [TS]

  happens to be Charles you who is the [TS]

  author of the book right and he seems to [TS]

  live in a universe that is a is enter [TS]

  twinkled and entwined with our own in [TS]

  the science fictional universe is a [TS]

  construct within the book and it is [TS]

  something to which he possesses some [TS]

  power of movement like ever while you [TS]

  think this is thoroughly abstract it [TS]

  sounds like he's been in a kind of [TS]

  stasis for 10 or more years in which he [TS]

  visits different locations in different [TS]

  adjacent universes and repairs people's [TS]

  problems where they people go back to [TS]

  visit events in the past and they make [TS]

  changes that they are outside [TS]

  operational parameters it's very very [TS]

  maytag salesperson [TS]

  oh you know you shouldn't put the you [TS]

  know the ACI card and you only put the [TS]

  ati card in that always causes a blowout [TS]

  we really need that you should have [TS]

  gotten the upgrade and I can fix it but [TS]

  it's going to cost $15 so we kind of its [TS]

  quitting at times you know it's this [TS]

  very much like he's like any repairman [TS]

  and then it's then it keeps blasting and [TS]

  metaphysical aspects and then there's a [TS]

  regular citations from a book that isn't [TS]

  that called how to live safely in a [TS]

  science fictional universe inside the [TS]

  book and over time we come to realize [TS]

  that his father fictional Charles use [TS]

  father has invented [TS]

  time machines sort of and that Charles [TS]

  you you has people he visits including [TS]

  his mother who is stuck in a time loop [TS]

  he created for her but she repeats a [TS]

  pleasant event over and over again i [TS]

  don't know if i would say stuck she's [TS]

  evil Heimlich she's sort of been placed [TS]

  in a time loop so that it would be [TS]

  easier on her or something exactly she [TS]

  has some awareness of it and he has a [TS]

  dog who doesn't exist the dog was sort [TS]

  of a fictional construct that was being [TS]

  thrown out and he felt bad for us is the [TS]

  notion of a dog that is not quite a dog [TS]

  and he has a onboard artificial [TS]

  intelligence system that is self-aware [TS]

  but kind of sad [TS]

  Tammy she sleeps a lot and his boss is a [TS]

  computer program it doesn't realize at [TS]

  least for a while these computer program [TS]

  yes so it you know some of these are [TS]

  very nominal science-fiction elements [TS]

  these are things that every know a lot [TS]

  of science fiction all these concepts [TS]

  come to eat together but keeps breaking [TS]

  down is it as you read the book you keep [TS]

  sort of peeling down through allegory [TS]

  you're like oh it's the story of a guy [TS]

  who's 30-something his life has been a [TS]

  mess and he's writing about in this [TS]

  heavily allegorical way and is troubled [TS]

  relations between his parents his [TS]

  parents getting divorced and his [TS]

  childhood in which his father was never [TS]

  please and can never achieve what you [TS]

  want to or is this like Pierre you know [TS]

  like we talked about with the city in [TS]

  the city your perspective keeps changing [TS]

  sometimes with every page as to whether [TS]

  this is you know a novel of personal [TS]

  self exploration thinly-veiled with [TS]

  science-fiction elements or a science [TS]

  fiction novel with oddly [TS]

  autobiographical potentially [TS]

  autobiographical elements inserted [TS]

  inside of it so what do you think that I [TS]

  do okay jobs [TS]

  yeah i think i think so and I think in [TS]

  fact it's not even an either/or i think [TS]

  that in some ways that's exactly what [TS]

  the book is it's an autobiography with [TS]

  sort of a filter run on that to turn it [TS]

  into a science fiction novel and then [TS]

  you know and then everybody has point [TS]

  where introduces specific elements that [TS]

  are associated with science fiction [TS]

  books and also i mean the title [TS]

  science-fictional as opposed to science [TS]

  fiction it's you know that is a queue [TS]

  there but their element where inserts [TS]

  things like you know he goes back [TS]

  apparently goes back in time and shoots [TS]

  himself or there are paradoxes that are [TS]

  classic science fiction [TS]

  time travel paradoxes that introduces [TS]

  but then dispenses with or incorporate [TS]

  sin completely in insane ways that are [TS]

  again like sometimes i feel like i'm [TS]

  reading philosophy when I'm reading it [TS]

  sometimes it's like a you know had a [TS]

  dense novel that's designed to be [TS]

  interpreted by literary critics and [TS]

  sometimes it's like a rousing good [TS]

  sci-fi story it is sort of got two parts [TS]

  right it's got this introductory part [TS]

  where you meet this you meet this guy [TS]

  and he he's a time machine repairman he [TS]

  lives out of time he sort of like [TS]

  doesn't want to access his actual life [TS]

  so he he just doesn't return home and he [TS]

  and he's fixing the time machines and [TS]

  then there's that scene coursing in the [TS]

  middle of the book where he is walking [TS]

  to his time machine and the door opens [TS]

  and he gets out of it and he sees [TS]

  himself and shoots himself and then gets [TS]

  in the time machine and leaves and [TS]

  realizes he's just sort of loop himself [TS]

  and that's where the book gets seriously [TS]

  weird and it turns out that he's been [TS]

  writing he needs to read a book called [TS]

  how to live safely of a science [TS]

  fictional universe which he himself [TS]

  wrote in the time loop so he writes it [TS]

  as he reads it and then we can get all [TS]

  kind of goes crazy and then he ends up [TS]

  trying to find his father whose live [TS]

  living in a a an imaginary kind of [TS]

  parallel universe that he's trying to [TS]

  track him down and as a science fiction [TS]

  story that's the point where i really [TS]

  started to think what the heck am I [TS]

  reading here where it got seriously [TS]

  weird [TS]

  although I you know I understand it kind [TS]

  of on that allegorical level but that's [TS]

  where that really weird after he shoots [TS]

  himself and and then he's playing all [TS]

  the cards right he's like you you're in [TS]

  a time loop you you know you're not just [TS]

  kill your grandfather you're killing [TS]

  yourself you've got a book that's been [TS]

  handed to you that you yourself rat [TS]

  wrote so how do you write it which is [TS]

  your right as you read it it's just [TS]

  and that's where it goes it's crazy [TS]

  right yeah he's an observer his own past [TS]

  with an alternate realities where he [TS]

  sees like his mother in a place that she [TS]

  doesn't know the woman was the whole the [TS]

  woman he never married who is almost [TS]

  instantiated [TS]

  we'll never fell in love with it's like [TS]

  a real person sort of as a construct it [TS]

  anything that's a construct in his book [TS]

  being can become a real thing that you [TS]

  can interact with on everything that's [TS]

  could have been possible is it does [TS]

  theoretically does exist everywhere and [TS]

  I think that's part of it too is that if [TS]

  you're writing a biography even you know [TS]

  you wonder what might have been and the [TS]

  science fictional universe everything [TS]

  that might have been it did happen [TS]

  somewhere in a in another universe and I [TS]

  think that's sort of what he's getting [TS]

  at [TS]

  Scott what did you think of this one [TS]

  ah I thought it was interesting i'm not [TS]

  quite sure at I know everyone i read a [TS]

  book and I think to myself well often i [TS]

  think what i'm reading which is good but [TS]

  this is the book which i think is the [TS]

  main character insane so does anything [TS]

  it is looking actually happened or is [TS]

  this all just an insane dream that this [TS]

  character is having and I don't know the [TS]

  answer to that after reading the book [TS]

  whether or not any of these things you [TS]

  know within the fictional universe that [TS]

  the book inhabits if these events [TS]

  actually happened or if this person is [TS]

  just insane because you know he has a [TS]

  dog that doesn't exist [TS]

  he his father apparently invent a time [TS]

  machine in their garage but there's no [TS]

  real proof that it worked and then we're [TS]

  going to show it to someone like a third [TS]

  party it didn't work and then all of a [TS]

  sudden it did work in the the bad some [TS]

  other corporations stole his idea so I [TS]

  don't know maybe I'm crazy [TS]

  oh it's it's a strange it's a very [TS]

  strange book and I wouldn't i wouldn't [TS]

  say that i liked it actually I thought [TS]

  it was I thought it was interesting and [TS]

  it was very interesting to see him the [TS]

  author make these I just crazy decisions [TS]

  to just do i'm going to put it all out [TS]

  there i'm going to lay out every single [TS]

  science-fictional element you could [TS]

  think of and I appreciated as as [TS]

  essentially a an exploration of his own [TS]

  life of the author's life and his [TS]

  relationship with his parents and you [TS]

  know I thought it was interesting on [TS]

  that level but i honestly cannot say [TS]

  that i enjoyed reading and I I thought [TS]

  it was yeah weird and you know a little [TS]

  bit off-putting and i'm not quite sure [TS]

  we ever really get a good grip on who [TS]

  the who the narrator is I feel in some [TS]

  ways that i had a UH you know it was [TS]

  hard [TS]

  a lot of the characters there it's [TS]

  almost like they're sort of shadow [TS]

  figures where you know their present but [TS]

  I'm not really quite sure who they are [TS]

  and that goes for the narrator but also [TS]

  goes for the mother and the father too [TS]

  yeah I wouldn't say exactly sort of it [TS]

  you know that there's a joke and laurie [TS]

  anderson album about like welcome to [TS]

  distant difficult listening our pleas [TS]

  button your top button on your shirt [TS]

  sit back and you know bolt upright [TS]

  uncomfortable chair and prepared to [TS]

  listen to some difficult music and I'm [TS]

  always like that's that's what it's [TS]

  about it like this is a hard book to [TS]

  read [TS]

  is it worth it I'm still not sure after [TS]

  you finish that was disappointed by how [TS]

  conventionally the book was brought to a [TS]

  conclusion i get close inclusion I mean [TS]

  not exactly something is not [TS]

  conventional I just thought it wasn't [TS]

  didn't fulfill its promise of how [TS]

  strange it was by how it ended but it [TS]

  was it was an attempt to write something [TS]

  that was not easy to read and I wasn't [TS]

  really in before structurally in [TS]

  Subway's it is i mean it he like i said [TS]

  before he pulled out all the stops all [TS]

  the tricks right so he's got the the [TS]

  this book is quoting itself it you know [TS]

  but this book is also quoting from a [TS]

  book in the universe and then that book [TS]

  is being written in the story and then [TS]

  it's being read and written [TS]

  simultaneously in the story so it's like [TS]

  inside a circle within a circle within a [TS]

  circle with a circle which you know [TS]

  hi it's a high-wire act i I'm not sure [TS]

  it really works [TS]

  I was thinking actually if I wasn't a [TS]

  college literature class [TS]

  yeah we got we gotta told go out and buy [TS]

  any you know book published in the last [TS]

  five years and write a story to write [TS]

  out write an essay analyzing it from a [TS]

  literature class analysis kind of [TS]

  perspective let's take it apart and [TS]

  consider what the author is doing I [TS]

  would pick a book like this because it [TS]

  does like we've been talking about it [TS]

  does have all these like layers of what [TS]

  does it mean and what's the technique [TS]

  and and and on that level it's [TS]

  interesting is it but that's not [TS]

  a level of you know entertainment value [TS]

  i guess i would say so it's so much as [TS]

  it is you know it interesting to defect [TS]

  to do as an autopsy really you know what [TS]

  this reminds me most closely of its some [TS]

  level as Nicholson Baker's mezzanine if [TS]

  either of you have read that book i have [TS]

  not I have not either [TS]

  it is an interesting piece of writing [TS]

  with more out of every web Scott no [TS]

  bearing on comparables on the Capitals I [TS]

  don't think wasn't comfortable on the [TS]

  mezzanine is Nicholson Baker think it's [TS]

  one of his first books it's um is a [TS]

  nonfiction one could argue with some [TS]

  level it is the entire set of thoughts [TS]

  that goes through his head ostensibly [TS]

  from the top of an escalator to the [TS]

  bottom and occupies a 250 pages and it [TS]

  is you read it and it is absolutely [TS]

  understandable as a stream of [TS]

  consciousness of all the things that are [TS]

  sort of minut switches and how we you [TS]

  know cogitate while we are ostensibly [TS]

  doing one activity or just even [TS]

  daydreaming [TS]

  it's a beautiful thing and it's one of [TS]

  the greatest things written i actually [TS]

  already i would argue because it's so [TS]

  it's unique and it is is so beautiful [TS]

  its way so there's there are some things [TS]

  in common i think between that where [TS]

  this is incredibly intense self-analysis [TS]

  that's presented in many many different [TS]

  allegorical and biographical ways that [TS]

  sounds awful [TS]

  yeah it's not fun for science but if [TS]

  we're doing you see no this isn't i'll [TS]

  bring a metal argument since we're doing [TS]

  everything is collapsing and expanding [TS]

  above us in this book you know she the [TS]

  in the this podcast I mean geeky things [TS]

  Dukey things can they not be hard to [TS]

  read I'm gonna need to be good but [TS]

  cannot be hard [TS]

  well they can but i think it can be hard [TS]

  i actually liked this book i think i [TS]

  would recommend it but I also you know I [TS]

  went to I was an English major so I [TS]

  spent a lot of time thinking about this [TS]

  stuff and my area of interest when I was [TS]

  you know have breeding for criticizing [TS]

  things was postmodern fiction and this [TS]

  is all the the quintessential kind of [TS]

  postmodern thing whenever you know [TS]

  whenever an author is a main character [TS]

  of their own book i'm interested i [TS]

  don't--that's haha [TS]

  that is an understanding and a book is [TS]

  written in the book and read and written [TS]

  inside is how many have never met levels [TS]

  of Medicaid you get here it's craziness [TS]

  and it reminds me of another author uh [TS]

  Don Pardo may I don't know if anyone has [TS]

  told ya Donnell Barthelemy yes yeah I [TS]

  love him short stories a lot of we're [TS]

  here as well I think he's dead now but [TS]

  may be alive if he's not dead is between [TS]

  these two living brothers also extremely [TS]

  good writers yes I actually don't like [TS]

  his the one brothers are gamblers and [TS]

  he's that's about gambling yet [TS]

  understand i don't really like he's [TS]

  right by the way his his short stories [TS]

  are very odd and very entertaining [TS]

  he had one short story about a woman who [TS]

  gave birth to a giant Ruby and another [TS]

  one about a church built a town that was [TS]

  only churches so that kind of thing and [TS]

  so it really reminded me of that [TS]

  that's good that is that weirdness that [TS]

  the writer sits down and writes [TS]

  something that is challenging an insane [TS]

  and they just go with it they don't back [TS]

  off you didn't write this [TS]

  Charles you didn't write this up i don't [TS]

  know this little out there maybe I [TS]

  should dumb it down and make it feel [TS]

  more like conventional stuff because [TS]

  I'll some more copies he put something [TS]

  really hard and strange and personal [TS]

  yeah I don't know if it was successful [TS]

  but I enjoyed it i don't know I a great [TS]

  place and I don't think it was a [TS]

  satisfying hunger but I did like it i'm [TS]

  gonna read it [TS]

  yeah i mean i-i i bring this up on the [TS]

  podcast a lot but I sort of think there [TS]

  are a couple different ways you can [TS]

  appreciate something and sometimes [TS]

  you'll get one of the other sometimes [TS]

  you get both sometimes you'll get [TS]

  neither and i got on one level for me I [TS]

  appreciate the the the craftsmanship of [TS]

  the work and how its put together and on [TS]

  that level i really appreciate this [TS]

  because i thought was very interesting [TS]

  what he chose to do with it [TS]

  the other level is sort of maybe you'd [TS]

  say it's a little more emotional or it's [TS]

  just you know I am i enjoying it as a as [TS]

  a tale as a an entertainment experience [TS]

  and that level i don't i don't think i [TS]

  would say work for me but I'm not on the [TS]

  first level it did and and to your point [TS]

  Glenn I do think that science fiction or [TS]

  any other genre it doesn't have to be [TS]

  hard but it it could be hard and if the [TS]

  if a work is difficult to [TS]

  to parse that can be a it can be [TS]

  engaging it could be interesting [TS]

  it can be frustrating and sometimes I [TS]

  think those things work and sometimes [TS]

  they don't [TS]

  I'm not quite sure what I feel about [TS]

  this i mean this this was on one level I [TS]

  wouldn't say this book is challenging i [TS]

  didn't find it hard to read it right i [TS]

  mean it is because it's using these kind [TS]

  of sci-fi tropes iĆ­ve i found it [TS]

  readable [TS]

  i I just I just I guess found a little [TS]

  bit off-putting and all i could see what [TS]

  he was doing in his craftsmanship [TS]

  I wasn't sure at the end of it that I [TS]

  you know I really felt connected enough [TS]

  to it to say I I you know enjoyed the [TS]

  ride I more appreciated the work that [TS]

  went into it then I enjoyed the ride I [TS]

  guess but it's not it's not very subtle [TS]

  book he isn't trying to hide his ground [TS]

  it is all right there is like look at me [TS]

  I'm a writer [TS]

  well anyways that's that I mean that's [TS]

  the whole book is look at me right i [TS]

  mean it's me i'm a writer this is about [TS]

  me or is it i want to i want to be a [TS]

  very short passage that is that stuck [TS]

  struck me as a writer and you guys will [TS]

  appreciate this as well and it's clearly [TS]

  as a writer this is the fantasy of every [TS]

  writer is this is a section is it [TS]

  location 1282 in the kindle edition [TS]

  which is not IM 1282 after the card hole [TS]

  12 babies are very good talking about [TS]

  the tow the textual object analysis [TS]

  device that is interacts with him as he [TS]

  is writing the book that he is reading [TS]

  and the TM 31 is his time machine model [TS]

  31 that his father apparently prototypes [TS]

  he says he's talking about reading the [TS]

  book he says in essence my reading is a [TS]

  creative act the product of which is [TS]

  being captured by the toad i'm typing [TS]

  even though strictly speaking I'm using [TS]

  the TM 30 ones cognitive visual motor [TS]

  sound active is activated recording [TS]

  module which operates as you might guess [TS]

  by simultaneously tracking output from [TS]

  the users neural activity voice finger [TS]

  movements retinol movements and facial [TS]

  muscle contractions part keyboard part [TS]

  microphone part optical scan and part [TS]

  brain scan when I want to type i raise [TS]

  my hands up in front of the palms down [TS]

  in a position approximate IP typing in a [TS]

  virtual qwerty layout materializes in [TS]

  front of me and it goes on in that vein [TS]

  that you can see the writer who is [TS]

  probably having horrible problems [TS]

  writing thinking of all the ways in [TS]

  which devices could [TS]

  he invented that would make the process [TS]

  of writing easier by allowing all these [TS]

  modalities that you know tap into your [TS]

  brain your intentions and even your you [TS]

  know subconscious basically i think it [TS]

  and it comes out over here although i'm [TS]

  not sure exactly what I'm thinking so I [TS]

  don't know what's going to come out of [TS]

  that reminds me a little of philip k [TS]

  dick the man in the high castle which he [TS]

  wrote i believe that this is to the [TS]

  thing is verified is true by cast [TS]

  casting eaching all the decisions he [TS]

  made worth reaching the novel is kind of [TS]

  crazy and viewers all over the place and [TS]

  in the novel in the novel it's [TS]

  understood that the universe doesn't [TS]

  exist in which the characters live they [TS]

  discovered this that it's a fake [TS]

  parallel universe in which decisions are [TS]

  being made de qing i'm looking at my [TS]

  highlights on my candle actually for [TS]

  this book and and here's here's the one [TS]

  that I i highlighted that I think is [TS]

  interesting this is from 26 27 and other [TS]

  excellent location i love 260 uh my [TS]

  inner monologue that running story I've [TS]

  been telling myself ever since the [TS]

  moment I learned to talk since before [TS]

  that even since I learned to think the [TS]

  story i began to tell while still in [TS]

  diapers in the crib the babbling [TS]

  commentary sometimes audible sometimes [TS]

  not that accelerated into childhood and [TS]

  then beyond became a tortured and [TS]

  anguish story in puberty this decade [TS]

  spanning confabulation that has [TS]

  continued up until today up until this [TS]

  very moment this monologue of my life [TS]

  that will keep running and running and [TS]

  running until it gets cut off abruptly [TS]

  at the moment of my death and i thought [TS]

  you know that was really interesting and [TS]

  also again wheels within wheels you know [TS]

  it's a story about telling the story [TS]

  that it's about which isn't over yet [TS]

  until it until it ends except that he he [TS]

  ends it and then continues because he [TS]

  shoots himself and didn't notice that [TS]

  the end the book ends with a picture of [TS]

  the book's cover an additional [TS]

  information that appears to be the start [TS]

  of the book just to make that all you [TS]

  know sure we get there were some i will [TS]

  say it's aight aight this is we're [TS]

  talking about this and it makes it sound [TS]

  like this is a really you know kind of a [TS]

  downer of a book and it's not there's [TS]

  actually a lot of funny stuff in it he [TS]

  talks about playing games as a kid and [TS]

  how they would play star wars and and [TS]

  there's a hilarious part where he says [TS]

  first first dibs get on [TS]

  solo everyone knows that you don't have [TS]

  to say it if you are first [TS]

  you are Han Solo period which is great [TS]

  awesome so there's a lot of funny stuff [TS]

  in here to about this guy some [TS]

  hitchhikers guide stuff too i mean not [TS]

  some of it i think is no modulation some [TS]

  of its just you know intentional but [TS]

  like you know instead of having a [TS]

  paranoid android he has a depressed hey [TS]

  I who is pretty funny and and who [TS]

  evolves over time and develops more of a [TS]

  personality as a distinct entity you [TS]

  know not just sort of a plot device by [TS]

  the end of the book kind of a love story [TS]

  really [TS]

  yeah he's in love with his AI know it's [TS]

  typical store typically sci-fi story [TS]

  love with an artificial construct that's [TS]

  right yeah we meet say I if it's your [TS]

  typical the other yeah [TS]

  the other item I i highlighted I i quote [TS]

  from location 839 of course like it's [TS]

  like a a sermon right like John book 3 [TS]

  chapter 12 snow its location 839 is but [TS]

  I love this because just as use of [TS]

  language he says I stand there for a [TS]

  while [TS]

  shivering stuck trapped free and at that [TS]

  moment where he he he's because he's [TS]

  been trapped in this time machine and [TS]

  then all of a sudden he's living in real [TS]

  time and he has to walk around and he's [TS]

  got like a whole night and he's staying [TS]

  at his apartment where the guy at the [TS]

  front desk keep seeing him come in every [TS]

  day at but that over the last week he's [TS]

  aged 10 years because we only spend the [TS]

  night there occasionally and any street [TS]

  and he's he's trapped now because he's [TS]

  in time and so even though he's free his [TS]

  freedom is a prison to him which is I [TS]

  mean to go back to the point of busy [TS]

  crazy he having there is that aspect of [TS]

  it which is you know wow this is a guy [TS]

  who does not want to live his life and [TS]

  does not want time it in the world to to [TS]

  move he just doesn't even want to be in [TS]

  the world and it's unclear whether he [TS]

  succeeds our door but it's awful it's an [TS]

  uplifting story really [TS]

  sorry man transcending himself [TS]

  transcending himself facing suicide if [TS]

  you shoot yourself in a time loop that [TS]

  is a good question or is it murder [TS]

  there's a there's a sci-fi story i [TS]

  cannot recall the name of which is my [TS]

  theme for today I can't call the name of [TS]

  a sci-fi story in which kids are allowed [TS]

  to visit the future like they take high [TS]

  school kids on a trip into their own [TS]

  future bodies in a way that they may not [TS]

  remember entirely but they can see where [TS]

  they go and it's a cut it's totally [TS]

  ridiculous but there's a bit where this [TS]

  very nerdy kid and the high school [TS]

  beauty wind up like they're married and [TS]

  she can't believe this in the future [TS]

  they would be possibly be married you [TS]

  know in their fifties or sixties and she [TS]

  accepts it and they spend their life [TS]

  together and understand what's going you [TS]

  know they have this whatever week [TS]

  together in the future and on the way [TS]

  back like she somehow managed to get a [TS]

  hold of a gun and she shoots him as they [TS]

  are pulled back into the past and kills [TS]

  him and destroys our own future like [TS]

  murder-suicide time travel pretty great [TS]

  little plot story not so good that plot [TS]

  element excellent murder she will write [TS]

  with the you know it [TS]

  that reminds me of something my wife [TS]

  always says about christmas christmas [TS]

  movies and and and TV shows where [TS]

  they're always trying to save Christmas [TS]

  because it turns out the christmas is [TS]

  just this close to being a radically [TS]

  forever if one thing doesn't happen to [TS]

  save it and that Dad strikes me as very [TS]

  similar which is you know the future [TS]

  future one little thing and the whole [TS]

  future is ruined [TS]

  oh I'm sorry I just stepped on a [TS]

  butterfly should be in this part of this [TS]

  podcast never existed [TS]

  you can't because I can be over it never [TS]

  began i'll say that's one of the most [TS]

  disturbing thing about the crisis series [TS]

  of DC Comics many many DC Comics a lot [TS]

  of crisis let me tell you quickly [TS]

  Infinite Crisis placing multiple [TS]

  multiverse Christ standing Rice's [TS]

  problem is in crisis if they have many [TS]

  many crises but one of his a disturbing [TS]

  most like metaphysically about those [TS]

  books was the sort of retro acting like [TS]

  none of these worlds ever existed [TS]

  despite the complex you might have that [TS]

  take place in them it like the you know [TS]

  not only are you dead but you never [TS]

  existed and such [TS]

  horrible concept that I think science [TS]

  fiction can express an existential like [TS]

  a double existential dread that is [TS]

  impossible to to present in on [TS]

  speculative fiction because then we [TS]

  cannot speculate that we never existed [TS]

  in you know a traditional narrative and [TS]

  what does that say about the people who [TS]

  read science fiction [TS]

  that's what I want to know where all [TS]

  depressed again I'm not every science [TS]

  because it makes me happy smiley it is a [TS]

  happy happy thing I I yeah it's a it's i [TS]

  don't know i don't even know what I'm [TS]

  saying now i will stand more over here [TS]

  he would agree with you he'd make it [TS]

  alright good [TS]

  he would know it's it's you know the [TS]

  whole idea of the you've never even [TS]

  existed in and all that man that's what [TS]

  I love about science fiction is that you [TS]

  can add to talk about Charles use book I [TS]

  mean he's using the science fictional [TS]

  concepts to talk about his own life and [TS]

  that's one of the things I love about [TS]

  science fiction is that you can tell a [TS]

  story and make it interesting and and [TS]

  and make an argument even in a way that [TS]

  you wouldn't necessarily do in something [TS]

  that was mainstream by by changing the [TS]

  parameters you are able to explore the [TS]

  concept more than you would if you were [TS]

  burdened by today's reality and that [TS]

  goes back to you know Star Trek telling [TS]

  you know that parables were Frank [TS]

  Gorshin is you know half black and half [TS]

  white and can't we all just get along [TS]

  and whom that might have some bearing [TS]

  and modern sixties culture but i think [TS]

  it's true that one of the things I love [TS]

  about size that you can explore these [TS]

  concepts that might be much more [TS]

  difficult to explore if you are grounded [TS]

  in reality by taking it out of reality [TS]

  and making it completely ridiculous but [TS]

  and sci-fi is the best sci-fi i think is [TS]

  often not about the future but about the [TS]

  president's right so frightened think [TS]

  about that right why you could argue [TS]

  that yeah that that any good size is [TS]

  really about when it was written and the [TS]

  perceptions of the future and where [TS]

  things are going at the time it was [TS]

  written i'm going to write a kind of [TS]

  science fiction looks backwards so that [TS]

  it's it's the year 2010 and mainframe [TS]

  computers [TS]

  with giant vacuum tubes are still in use [TS]

  and that's always been your guests are [TS]

  all things that ya know steampunk that's [TS]

  steampunk positive we're still living in [TS]

  1800 we have the technology is there is [TS]

  there [TS]

  retro retro steampunk in which it's the [TS]

  21st century but we're using steampunk [TS]

  technology i have wow I've outstripped [TS]

  you I've stripped from here you blow my [TS]

  mind [TS]

  you blew my vacuum too so so let's in [TS]

  the in the in the future podcast will be [TS]

  radio program thousand that would be [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  let's talk about time travel a little [TS]

  bit that wewe with Charles you obviously [TS]

  we have a story that's all about time [TS]

  travel [TS]

  I'm wondering though this is such a [TS]

  common concept in sci-fi writing and [TS]

  there's so many things to choose from [TS]

  i'm wondering if you guys have any [TS]

  particular instances of of time-travel [TS]

  novels that you've particularly liked or [TS]

  disliked Scott yes I think I uh-huh [TS]

  that is as though I knew this question [TS]

  was going to be asked because I have an [TS]

  answer I i would point to probably the [TS]

  first and this may in fact be the first [TS]

  science-fiction novel I ever read so and [TS]

  i haven't read it since I was you know [TS]

  in elementary school I imagine a time [TS]

  and again by Jack Finney which is all [TS]

  about time travel and jack but he also [TS]

  wrote invasion of the Body Snatchers if [TS]

  anyone cares about that and so the great [TS]

  thing about this book is it set in New [TS]

  York which I always liked reading books [TS]

  that are set in New York City and the [TS]

  main character travels back in time to [TS]

  eighteen hundreds New York which is also [TS]

  something that I had shohei in fact this [TS]

  may have this book may have started [TS]

  mother at all starting your obsession [TS]

  with eighteen hundreds of new york [TS]

  Oh [TS]

  and so the idea is that the government [TS]

  its 1970 and the government starts this [TS]

  program to figure out if they can time [TS]

  travel and the way they think that you [TS]

  can time travel is if you live so it's [TS]

  in 1970 so they after this warehouse [TS]

  with a you know period rooms and they [TS]

  have people live as though they were in [TS]

  you know 1880 and using only the power [TS]

  of your mind you are transported to that [TS]

  time period so that the main character [TS]

  does in fact transport himself to that [TS]

  time period and a variety of hijinks [TS]

  ensue and including where he's the [TS]

  government wants him to change the past [TS]

  so that you know certain things don't [TS]

  happen and people don't meet that need [TS]

  to meet and he you know so it's a very [TS]

  interesting book and kind of a [TS]

  prototypical to me at least a [TS]

  time-travel science fiction novel and it [TS]

  has illustrations [TS]

  oh nice when what about you [TS]

  I'm gonna reach into the past to I guess [TS]

  appropriate for talking about time for [TS]

  coupling say grace upon a time was [TS]

  probably one of my are James P Hogan [TS]

  yeah now he did he pass away he recently [TS]

  passed away and he actually lived for [TS]

  several years in my hometown and I met [TS]

  him when I was kid and Delta and yes a [TS]

  very nice fellow and it's definitely [TS]

  passed away recently and in 2010 [TS]

  I think I dedicate this podcast today we [TS]

  do to James P hogan who wrote great by [TS]

  the way great novel love inherit the [TS]

  stars which was written on a band glow [TS]

  familiar i don't recall that the it was [TS]

  written on a bad we're all that he was [TS]

  working at digital equipment in Ireland [TS]

  i think at the time and and he said he [TS]

  had this idea of astronauts go to the [TS]

  moon and they find a dead body of an of [TS]

  a guy in a spacesuit that is completely [TS]

  unrecognizable that's been there for [TS]

  thousands of years and it's something [TS]

  supplement up and and one of his [TS]

  co-workers said I i bet you can't write [TS]

  that story and he did and he got it [TS]

  published and that was his first novel [TS]

  you know it has like has a fantastic [TS]

  cover because i just googled it [TS]

  it doesn't it lets the two it's the two [TS]

  astronauts and you can get I think we [TS]

  mentioned on a podcast before [TS]

  actually available for free download on [TS]

  pub download I believe still from band [TS]

  like it's got that great cover with the [TS]

  two astronauts who are looking over a [TS]

  rock and there's the guy the dead the [TS]

  skeleton any orange space yeah it kind [TS]

  of looks like a rebel fighter from Star [TS]

  Wars yeah and it's and that's actually [TS]

  the start of a series there are sequels [TS]

  although it doesn't read like to also [TS]

  mention things that we mentioned in [TS]

  previous podcast it doesn't it's not [TS]

  like there were he wrote one book and [TS]

  chopped into three to make you buy three [TS]

  books and it stands alone but then some [TS]

  of the concepts that come out in the [TS]

  kind of you know fascinating and semi [TS]

  scientifically inaccurate but still [TS]

  fascinating resolution to this plot of [TS]

  how this guy could be their leadoff to [TS]

  the sequel books which are actually also [TS]

  pretty good anyway the three upon a time [TS]

  is more hard sci-fi about how would you [TS]

  send a message back in time right yeah [TS]

  that's that's right and I i wanted to [TS]

  point out that some of the best fiction [TS]

  ever written was written because of bar [TS]

  bets and then that's so what does a best [TS]

  buy CS lewis wrote his perelandra series [TS]

  because he and I and J are talking were [TS]

  great buddies sort of challenge each [TS]

  other to wright sci fi books and oddly [TS]

  talking never wrote his I would have [TS]

  been curious to see ants in the space it [TS]

  would have been boring [TS]

  yeah we've been terribly boy but wait [TS]

  until tom bombadil appears at the space [TS]

  books to sing his space song in a [TS]

  strange language for saving our april [TS]

  edition comfortable being developed as [TS]

  we speak we working on the script for [TS]

  that race upon a time for a spot of time [TS]

  one so this is guest book about nineteen [TS]

  eighty and i think i read it right [TS]

  around that time so I was one-year-old [TS]

  know i was about was a 12 at the time [TS]

  perfect time to i was already exposed to [TS]

  sci-fi but I read this book and I i [TS]

  remember i read it again several years [TS]

  ago and I remember it so distinctly [TS]

  because it's a very sweet book it's got [TS]

  great [TS]

  hard-science elements in it it's got a [TS]

  very innocent love story in the middle [TS]

  it's got tales of loyalty it's got [TS]

  kittens or a kitten i should say a sort [TS]

  of quantum kitten in its the most [TS]

  dangerous kind any instead of a [TS]

  butterfly [TS]

  there's a ball of paper bomb bomb bomb [TS]

  bomb that plays a key role in it but [TS]

  but i think the book part of it is it's [TS]

  his just such a sweet book that the [TS]

  basic plot is that this fellow is uncle [TS]

  like an oversized uncle or a distant [TS]

  relative goes to work with his uncle in [TS]

  somewhere in the UK and Scotland write a [TS]

  lot about the plot i should i should [TS]

  come prepared with a lot but this fellow [TS]

  has developed a machine this older [TS]

  fellows developed a device that allows [TS]

  you to send a message back in time but [TS]

  only two previous versions of the same [TS]

  machine right which is a brilliant [TS]

  concept in on a different basis in [TS]

  reality yeah there's some stereo exactly [TS]

  you could build conceivably have some [TS]

  theories check out and you might have to [TS]

  you know who knows what the machines [TS]

  nature be or the size of it or the power [TS]

  requirements but it is conceivable you [TS]

  could build a machine that if the theory [TS]

  were consistent future iterations of the [TS]

  machine or other devices could [TS]

  correspond so kind of he was a way ahead [TS]

  of his time it right the movie primer is [TS]

  very similar which I love by the way and [TS]

  i highly recommend and in that movie you [TS]

  have to build the time machine flip it [TS]

  on and then wait and then in the future [TS]

  you can get in it and come back to the [TS]

  point where you flipped it on right and [TS]

  I sorta like sort of like that ties in [TS]

  with Hawkins theories and so forth so [TS]

  will you know what we want to the math [TS]

  here of course will be working on their [TS]

  own [TS]

  that's right home but your whiteboard [TS]

  but yeah yeah it's all I'm so you know [TS]

  where I found the detail it is Murdock [TS]

  Ross and his friend visit marks [TS]

  grandfather in Scotland I didn't over [TS]

  some details [TS]

  he's figured this out in what happens is [TS]

  this is a seminal year in which is [TS]

  supposed to be oh it's supposed to be [TS]

  december 2009 even I didn't realize this [TS]

  was set more in the future that is on [TS]

  our far the future and want to the earth [TS]

  be like the photograph for the drawing [TS]

  on the covers marvelous is using a pet [TS]

  computer clearly a pet with three minor [TS]

  modifications awesome but anyway that so [TS]

  the novel is just a bunch of events [TS]

  happen that you're including again from [TS]

  the future Large Hadron Collider style [TS]

  micro black holes being created after [TS]

  the device is switched on not because of [TS]

  the device so they're able through the [TS]

  device to continuously change history [TS]

  and very small ways but only within the [TS]

  confines of the narrative structure [TS]

  which is one thing is beautiful and the [TS]

  fellow falls in love doesn't fall in [TS]

  love falls and his friend is dying is [TS]

  not dying [TS]

  he kidding basketball one-way wallpaper1 [TS]

  the other and the book ends with the [TS]

  sort of cliffhanger everything I don't [TS]

  believe that a sequel was ever written [TS]

  but it was sort of you know sort of a [TS]

  throwaway as the developers machine [TS]

  wakes up one morning it starts the first [TS]

  time you turn it on it spews out [TS]

  hundreds or thousands of pages [TS]

  information including a note from the [TS]

  Queen explaining how the entire planet [TS]

  will be destroyed that his mom it's [TS]

  funny the the well james hogan road [TS]

  another time travel book called the [TS]

  Proteas operation which is it is [TS]

  interesting it but it's mostly [TS]

  historical stories about world war two [TS]

  and the premises that it's the seventies [TS]

  and I the United States is the last [TS]

  country to have not fallen to Nazi [TS]

  domination and they build a time machine [TS]

  and send a small team of people back to [TS]

  the beginning of world war two to see if [TS]

  they can change the course of history [TS]

  and what's delightful about it is [TS]

  everything that does they do in back in [TS]

  time of course is setting this alternate [TS]

  timeline right into our history so [TS]

  they're making our history from this [TS]

  alternate timeline which is i love i [TS]

  love the time travel story in Reverse [TS]

  where you're not trying to not change [TS]

  the future they're actively trying to [TS]

  change the future and what they changed [TS]

  it to is our present our our history [TS]

  that's good i think it's a good one and [TS]

  it's similar in some ways to the book I [TS]

  was going to mention one of the books I [TS]

  was going to mention which is Timescape [TS]

  by Gregory Benford [TS]

  oh yes which from 1981 are nineteen [TS]

  eighty somewhere in there which I love [TS]

  partially because it's at UCSD where I [TS]

  went to college it's it's kind of a [TS]

  downer i have to say because it said in [TS]

  a future time that uh there's been I [TS]

  think ecological disasters and [TS]

  catastrophes and essentially the [TS]

  messages to be you can send messages [TS]

  back in time but sadly it doesn't [TS]

  actually save the people who are sending [TS]

  them because you create your branch off [TS]

  what happens at one point in the story [TS]

  is that they they make so many changes [TS]

  the information they're sending back and [TS]

  I'm again trying to base this on [TS]

  scientific reality the information [TS]

  they're sending back in time is so great [TS]

  at one point that it can't reconcile [TS]

  itself with the with the future and so [TS]

  it sheared off into a parallel universe [TS]

  soho so the these guys don't succeed in [TS]

  saving themselves they succeed in [TS]

  creating a parallel universe that can [TS]

  hopefully avoid the mistakes that led to [TS]

  this point so it's really kind of dark [TS]

  but it's also a very cool very cool [TS]

  story so I I'm out that was a hugo [TS]

  winner 24 or nebula winner it's what we [TS]

  want a couple of those big awards and [TS]

  it's good and that Benford who wrote [TS]

  that Gregory Benford and Greg bear and [TS]

  david brin I think all were at UCSD [TS]

  around the killer period yeah i think [TS]

  they're all at UCSD which I didn't [TS]

  realize when I went there you know ten [TS]

  years later to the model seattle-based [TS]

  interesting well that's where you go you [TS]

  go from one end of the i-5 to the other [TS]

  end to bring in there are local killer [TS]

  bees and what else i want to mention i [TS]

  want to mention connie willis who's [TS]

  written a bunch of great time around [TS]

  looks the best my favorite of which i [TS]

  would say i'm not going to go for [TS]

  doomsday book which is also it down or [TS]

  I'm gonna go for to say nothing of the [TS]

  dog which we mentioned i know in this [TS]

  podcast hilarious sort of book of [TS]

  Victorian manners [TS]

  except it's about time travel just very [TS]

  funny funny book for for somebody who's [TS]

  written these sort of serious books are [TS]

  current pair of books about the Blitz [TS]

  and that book about doomsday book which [TS]

  is about the plague are really dark and [TS]

  yet to say nothing of a dog is it is one [TS]

  of the funniest things I've ever read [TS]

  it's a very funny book [TS]

  speaking of funny books that have been [TS]

  mentioned on the podcast before Jasper [TS]

  Ford's thursday next series includes a [TS]

  character Thursday Next father Colonel [TS]

  next was a member of the spec up 12 [TS]

  which is an organization that a does [TS]

  time travel and in the in that universe [TS]

  they're able to time travel because at [TS]

  some point in the future time travel [TS]

  will be invented so that they can time [TS]

  travel and he's gone rogue [TS]

  so the the spec op 12 [TS]

  sent agents to interrupt his conception [TS]

  so he was never existed he never exists [TS]

  but he does through some kind of [TS]

  manipulation through time he's able to [TS]

  exist and he pops up and helps Thursday [TS]

  Next through her adventures every once [TS]

  in a while I would also mention outside [TS]

  no go ahead i would also mention the [TS]

  evolutionary void which I wanted to [TS]

  mention in passing i will mention again [TS]

  we talked about what we are reading but [TS]

  it has is very it's a trilogy has a very [TS]

  odd conception of time travel in it [TS]

  which is that rather than travel through [TS]

  time you store the a pocket universe [TS]

  inside our universe powered by [TS]

  destroying stars outside this pocket [TS]

  universe stores a backup copy of [TS]

  everything that's happened it's time [TS]

  machine for a time machine at the apple [TS]

  product for science fiction so if [TS]

  something goes wrong you can consciously [TS]

  cause the entire universe you're into [TS]

  rewind at great great expense to the [TS]

  star fields outside and then just do it [TS]

  over and the story of the the source of [TS]

  trilogy and the story centers on a bunch [TS]

  of Brazilian characters and it's like [TS]

  2,000 pages long but it's a unique [TS]

  anything unique conception of time [TS]

  travel as a capability of resetting [TS]

  reality as opposed to traveling through [TS]

  the outside reality continues to flow at [TS]

  normal time while this pocket universe [TS]

  is entirely different reality in which [TS]

  the changed events can be seen as well [TS]

  as other the old events can be seen as [TS]

  part of a narrative in which the change [TS]

  occurs within it isn't that the [TS]

  resolution of the latest season of [TS]

  doctor who basically that they have a [TS]

  backup for the end of her it's only have [TS]

  a reboot it's on a backup it's more like [TS]

  open Amy Amy remembers things and that's [TS]

  she's the backup [TS]

  it's like an install disk alright okay [TS]

  the TARDIS is the back by air installer [TS]

  no no it's now ask but the great thing [TS]

  about time travel is that you can get it [TS]

  to do anything anything you want because [TS]

  it's just kind of crazy and ridiculous [TS]

  as long as you put the word tacky and [TS]

  front of enough thing sure [TS]

  Bergeron you can do anything you want so [TS]

  the other book i want to mention and we [TS]

  exchanged email about this so i know [TS]

  what's coming that I that I love love [TS]

  love love [TS]

  uh-huh uh-huh is the Time Traveler's [TS]

  Wife yea big land may have transformed [TS]

  into an angry gorilla holic smash i love [TS]

  the time traveler's wife and i and maybe [TS]

  that makes me a girl [TS]

  well my husband say my wife loves the [TS]

  time traveler's wife so all so they're [TS]

  they're gonna know she has great taste [TS]

  there are no she married me oh yeah we [TS]

  all make sound effects on the show I can [TS]

  provide some of them i well i will i'll [TS]

  admit i did not read the entire time [TS]

  travelers wife i stopped at a point [TS]

  which irritated me so great that I [TS]

  thought I might explode and so I had to [TS]

  put it down now save the planet wasn't [TS]

  your wasn't your argument that you [TS]

  didn't like the time travelers wife [TS]

  because it was so obvious what was going [TS]

  to happen and so what's the point of the [TS]

  whole thing [TS]

  well it was no was the heavy-handedness [TS]

  of the foreshadowing which i think is I [TS]

  which may be exactly what you just said [TS]

  stated more pretentious indie but i [TS]

  don't know i think my feet I don't know [TS]

  is im Michael any human reactionary as [TS]

  somebody who had a glint off and Wilson [TS]

  will make a point which is I usually [TS]

  quite right that somebody post something [TS]

  online and Glynis a little let me guess [TS]

  you're an engineer right because it's [TS]

  this application of a very specific way [TS]

  of thinking and I have to admit I add [TS]

  that response when Glenn told me that he [TS]

  hated the time traveler's wife because [TS]

  he's like but it's it's so obvious and [TS]

  it's heavy-handed and this is what's [TS]

  going to happen in my response was of [TS]

  course it's going to happen that's the [TS]

  that's the whole point the the time [TS]

  traveler's wife is is just a story about [TS]

  a married couple who meet and fall in [TS]

  love and have a kid and live their life [TS]

  and then they die and one of them dies [TS]

  and the other one is left without the [TS]

  other one and it that's the story of [TS]

  every marriage with the exception being [TS]

  that they put one of them in a blender [TS]

  and his time stream get split up like [TS]

  you know Billy Pilgrim style which is [TS]

  what gives it its it's spin but what I [TS]

  liked about it is in the end you know [TS]

  yes it's this question of what happened [TS]

  to him and it's very clear i think early [TS]

  on what's going to happen to him Glen to [TS]

  your point yes haha they they never [TS]

  really wanted to talk about where her [TS]

  father showed up with his shotgun and [TS]

  seemed to stir [TS]

  but for some reason there was blood I [TS]

  wonder if that will be important later I [TS]

  may not course it will be important [TS]

  later but I i still love it because you [TS]

  know in the end it is to me that book is [TS]

  about the inevitability of of a married [TS]

  couple couple loves each other as much [TS]

  as you could possibly love one another [TS]

  being separated by death and that you [TS]

  know the perspective is different [TS]

  because after he dies they still see him [TS]

  because he's in this kaleidoscope of of [TS]

  time travel and you know I I thought it [TS]

  was really cool to take a ride through a [TS]

  couple's relationship from that outside [TS]

  you know I outside twisted perspective [TS]

  of a viewing it out of order which you [TS]

  know Steven Moffat is actually done [TS]

  basically lift lifted that premise and [TS]

  is using it for the river song plot in [TS]

  Doctor Who where they're also having [TS]

  their relationship happen out of order [TS]

  that's right we've already seen in yeah [TS]

  well let me tell you two things one is I [TS]

  will confess this is a live on the air [TS]

  convection actually thought the book was [TS]

  quite beautiful and what hit me was as I [TS]

  got to the point at which i suddenly [TS]

  realized that it was going to be a total [TS]

  heart tearing tearjerker [TS]

  I found I couldn't take it I hit I mean [TS]

  like somewhere I don't know was made the [TS]

  third of the way windows meet her in the [TS]

  library the first time she has met him [TS]

  as when she's an adult and he's never [TS]

  met her before or yeah that's about yeah [TS]

  yeah there's the scene where he hasn't [TS]

  she meets him as a child right he in a [TS]

  library [TS]

  he needs her for the first time and of [TS]

  course she knows him very well and he [TS]

  has no idea who she is [TS]

  he's perfectly pleased because they go [TS]

  back and you know well she's hot and jen [TS]

  and she loves him and he's definitely [TS]

  know who the hell she is so he's like [TS]

  alright have desirable intercourse [TS]

  yeah so the I think I hit that point of [TS]

  the book and there were a few elements [TS]

  that were revealed clearly and i was and [TS]

  i just i found it didn't have the [TS]

  stomach to at that point to read further [TS]

  and I could play the personal card i [TS]

  think it may have been after my mother [TS]

  died [TS]

  see now i'm getting all weepy he'll make [TS]

  it all very personal know it but i think [TS]

  that was the thing is like I hit a point [TS]

  where I just I so i will actually [TS]

  recanting my position is [TS]

  it's not that I didn't like it i thought [TS]

  that i thought the foreshadowing was too [TS]

  heavy-handed but I also because the book [TS]

  was so well-constructed I could see the [TS]

  Machine returning was gonna make me [TS]

  miserable and I thought I don't this is [TS]

  like the UH the Doctor Who statements [TS]

  like you know sometimes nobody dies [TS]

  right this is episode of doctor who [TS]

  wears a few of them like the doctor [TS]

  dances and it the silence and libraries [TS]

  as part 2 which is technically people do [TS]

  die but whatever am a back to get a [TS]

  backup so it's ok it's it's that notion [TS]

  that in this universe which everything [TS]

  is this in the doctors university [TS]

  there's always massive amounts of death [TS]

  and destruction whatever sometimes [TS]

  nobody dies so I have that reaction was [TS]

  like you know I am NOT ready to watch [TS]

  this sink is an evil guy castro my fate [TS]

  be killed and what is clearly going to [TS]

  be a horrible method and all the loss [TS]

  that goes with it so I I my back off on [TS]

  my previous statement it is a sad it is [TS]

  a sad book but at the same time I i do [TS]

  think it's a very sweet and beautiful [TS]

  and you don't hurt Saturday was the [TS]

  movie bahaha yeah i heard really was not [TS]

  good [TS]

  it's true no but the book the book is [TS]

  beautiful and i love how the book ends I [TS]

  mean the book ends with hit with because [TS]

  he you know he dies from their [TS]

  perspective but he's still traveling [TS]

  throughout his life and it ends with the [TS]

  last time the oldest he sees her right [TS]

  so from his respective it's the oldest [TS]

  she sees her from her perspective it's [TS]

  the last time she sees him before she [TS]

  dies and she's extremely old and it and [TS]

  it's so sad but it is beautiful at the [TS]

  same time that that it's this tragic [TS]

  story and yet at the same time you know [TS]

  it's it's beautiful that he hit you know [TS]

  his his gift is also allowed them to [TS]

  keep seeing him after he's died so that [TS]

  is a river song thing river song has the [TS]

  book of all those times she's seen the [TS]

  doctor and keeps flipping backwards in [TS]

  silence the library she finally finds [TS]

  wait a minute we haven't she finally [TS]

  realized they haven't met yet this be [TS]

  right where the start of her jewellery [TS]

  and she has the character in time [TS]

  travelers like she has a list that he [TS]

  gave her which I was talking about here [TS]

  now isn't that is until they didn't [TS]

  figure out they figure out how to sync [TS]

  it up its yeah it's interesting so Scott [TS]

  your wife liked it did you [TS]

  yet I did not read it because it sounded [TS]

  a little too girly for my taste you but [TS]

  I i I'm narrow-minded so that that is [TS]

  the it's great i really i really like [TS]

  reenacted so i love the fact that he's [TS]

  the camry the character the main [TS]

  character [TS]

  I'm sorry I spoiled it all for you now [TS]

  Scott but now I don't need to read it [TS]

  because the depressive apparently but [TS]

  it's no it's great because you know it [TS]

  says a lot of things about relationships [TS]

  so again i apologize for being a girl [TS]

  but it's a lot of things about the upper [TS]

  relationships that are so true [TS]

  especially as you get older that I'm you [TS]

  know we we meet him you know it's just [TS]

  funny because you meet him as an adult [TS]

  as a full-fledged adult who knows what's [TS]

  going on and then the first time you [TS]

  really meet him he's you know in his [TS]

  twenties and is is still going out to [TS]

  punk rock concerts and has is Paris kind [TS]

  of funny and his closer kind of funny [TS]

  and it and it's hilarious because it's [TS]

  like oh this guy doesn't have it [TS]

  together at all he he gets it together [TS]

  later and you got it you got a lot of [TS]

  studying in which he as a teenager [TS]

  appears naked in the room his own room [TS]

  with himself and the father walks in ya [TS]

  ya little hilarious it'sit's there's [TS]

  some good stuff in it anyway so I bring [TS]

  up the time traveler's wife as well so [TS]

  those of you out there who are not [TS]

  afraid of your of your standing in terms [TS]

  of all you men out there who are not [TS]

  afraid of your masculinity and all of [TS]

  you women out there who bless you for [TS]

  listening to this podcast which is all [TS]

  men today you know it's a great i love [TS]

  it [TS]

  we have shaved during this podcast love [TS]

  that book [TS]

  uh speaking of women who listen to the [TS]

  podcast my my my wife does not listen to [TS]

  the podcast because we were at powell's [TS]

  when we visited portland and she said oh [TS]

  the windup girl I want to read that book [TS]

  and I said didn't you listen to the game [TS]

  the the podcast where we talked about it [TS]

  just like you're on a podcast that [TS]

  yeah well she can listen to it after she [TS]

  reads the one my wife has a negative [TS]

  interest in science fiction or interest [TS]

  in science fiction is so low it makes [TS]

  other people not read it wow that's [TS]

  impressive [TS]

  it's like a two-hour it shine wrote [TS]

  science fiction my wife like science [TS]

  fiction but I she basically waits for me [TS]

  to recommend something to her and it's [TS]

  like if it's good enough [TS]

  for me to be like oh you got to read [TS]

  this then she'll read it but she's not [TS]

  going to pick it up by the way she [TS]

  figures i can be her screener which is [TS]

  fair enough my life like science fiction [TS]

  she just doesn't like listening to me so [TS]

  oh well I i can understand that I in [TS]

  July however I enjoy listening to you [TS]

  but she gets to listen to you all the [TS]

  time it's true [TS]

  non-stop I don't know if she has to [TS]

  listen to canned can scott when she's [TS]

  away from you so i could listen to Scott [TS]

  talking some more you did for me to [TS]

  travel more and then the podcast will [TS]

  grow fonder uh-huh that's true i should [TS]

  leave my wife and then jobs this podcast [TS]

  a so what makes the mp3 grow fonder [TS]

  before we before we wrap up this podcast [TS]

  i want to go around the room which it [TS]

  will be not take very much time since [TS]

  we're the only ones who read that book [TS]

  if you attack ask your it yes in the [TS]

  triangle of the book club [TS]

  the musical question what are you [TS]

  reading [TS]

  Scott what are you reading I am really [TS]

  something that is not science fiction [TS]

  ok I i will admit is the third book in a [TS]

  series of books called mr. slaughter [TS]

  it's by Robert mccammon and it is about [TS]

  a character by the name of Matthew [TS]

  Corbett who is well starts off as a law [TS]

  clerk in 1699 so it's cool it's set in [TS]

  the colonial America and he is in New [TS]

  York it he actually does live in New [TS]

  your heart so it is colonial New York [TS]

  I'm going even further back and more [TS]

  specific with my mysteries that i read [TS]

  and so in this book he is looking for a [TS]

  bad guy named mr. slaughter not to be [TS]

  confused with sergeant slaughter [TS]

  wow it's very good all right Glenn what [TS]

  about you i just recently finished [TS]

  reading a couple big things one is [TS]

  mentioned earlier is the evolutionary [TS]

  void part of a insanely long series of [TS]

  three books by Peter F Hamilton whose [TS]

  work I really quite like Hamilton's [TS]

  writing but he mostly over rights but [TS]

  man he's got a lot of detail he really [TS]

  feels the need to express it in 700-page [TS]

  books so i think the void trilogy is [TS]

  like I want to say it's like 2,000 pages [TS]

  long i'm not sure i'm exaggerating again [TS]

  I don't think you are [TS]

  he only wrote he also wrote his earlier [TS]

  books he wrote a detective side my [TS]

  detective thing and those are much [TS]

  shorter [TS]

  oh I didn't I well I think over time [TS]

  people get less constrained if they sell [TS]

  stuff it necessarily it's the neal [TS]

  stephenson syndrome [TS]

  yeah but there's also on pandora star [TS]

  and Judas Unchained or earlier books [TS]

  like white I think our little more zippy [TS]

  and stories and those that I detail but [TS]

  so the void books i mean the the [TS]

  evolutionary void just came out and read [TS]

  it on the kindle because the book weigh [TS]

  700 pounds and i use the kindle app to [TS]

  avoid hurting my arms while reading this [TS]

  behemoth it's definitely entertaining I [TS]

  again I think too many words across [TS]

  three books but the story is basically [TS]

  there's a religious movement that spread [TS]

  across the you know a alliance of many [TS]

  planets occupied by human beings that [TS]

  this primary character the dreamer first [TS]

  dreamer can see dreams of this pocket [TS]

  universe that show a different kind of [TS]

  life and people eventually want to [TS]

  migrate into this pocket universe but [TS]

  another race of beings has fought it [TS]

  back for thousands of years many [TS]

  millions or something and the end if [TS]

  everyone were to go into that universe [TS]

  they would create such an energy suck on [TS]

  the you-know-what real universe that the [TS]

  universe would cease to exist in there [TS]

  be this kind of weird resettable pocket [TS]

  universe so it's I think it's always a [TS]

  rousing the tail but it is very [TS]

  interesting some good metaphysics a lot [TS]

  of them great explosions and fights [TS]

  really well depicted huge amounts of [TS]

  destruction and sadistic evil people and [TS]

  it's it's kind of fun [TS]

  I don't have finished all right now [TS]

  because now it's good to read it because [TS]

  it's all done so because the bond I have [TS]

  with his books is whenever he you know [TS]

  he has to write them so [TS]

  you read one and you have to wait a year [TS]

  or year and a half to read the other one [TS]

  and then i have read no idea what [TS]

  happened so you have read the first [TS]

  thats not realizing was a trilogy [TS]

  planned trilogy make five years ago [TS]

  the other thing I just finished reading [TS]

  as I got the collected versions of DC [TS]

  Comics blackest day brightest [TS]

  black-and-white rather like write a nice [TS]

  day blackest night series where it was [TS]

  across you know 400 different comic book [TS]

  series in there whatever I got the [TS]

  collective versions of the library to [TS]

  read as I found is a great way to catch [TS]

  up on a lot of comics because they put [TS]

  everything together in one place and you [TS]

  don't have piles of strewn confusing [TS]

  things and I found the story's really [TS]

  sort of in comprehensible and messianic [TS]

  and bizarre but not too bad not too bad [TS]

  is no it's again library collections of [TS]

  comics a great way to actually catch up [TS]

  on some of the interesting stuff that's [TS]

  going on in comics without getting a [TS]

  message to the inn you know buying 500 [TS]

  copies than trying to collate the order [TS]

  in which things happen [TS]

  that's a Green Lantern thing is nothing [TS]

  yeah it's I mean it's interesting it's [TS]

  all of a sudden it turns out it turns [TS]

  out the Guardians of the Universe [TS]

  they're hiding something [TS]

  providing is there are other colors in [TS]

  the spectrum [TS]

  well sort of the plot I'm shocked go to [TS]

  that also sounds lame [TS]

  so I read a lot of books on my my [TS]

  Christmas vacation i read a couple of [TS]

  nonfiction so now again Scott yes these [TS]

  are not science fiction either but i [TS]

  think people might like them because [TS]

  there's a science book the only place in [TS]

  19th century or if if you like if you [TS]

  like science i read a very entertaining [TS]

  book about astronomy and about the [TS]

  process of discovering things in the [TS]

  professional astronomers go to go [TS]

  through called love the titles by Mike [TS]

  Brown who discovered the the plant the [TS]

  not planet- Minor Planet eros it's [TS]

  discovered a lot of these these distant [TS]

  solar system objects including one that [TS]

  is bigger than Pluto which led to the [TS]

  whole existential crisis about is Pluto [TS]

  a planet or not and it has the [TS]

  delightful title how I killed Pluto and [TS]

  why it had it coming [TS]

  yeah he was guest blogging on-going [TS]

  going for a while and stuff your very [TS]

  eyes he's a funny guy [TS]

  it's a good book and it really does talk [TS]

  about it talk about his personal life in [TS]

  an interesting way and his life as a [TS]

  professional astronomer and [TS]

  what they went through and there's [TS]

  actually a little bit of scandal limit [TS]

  too because there's a disputed discovery [TS]

  where it looks like this team of [TS]

  astronomers discovered that they could [TS]

  use a google search to search the data [TS]

  of the telescope that they were using to [TS]

  discover these objects and and the name [TS]

  of one of the objects that they were [TS]

  working on it been published in a in a [TS]

  basically like a toc for an advanced [TS]

  version of this of a kind of conference [TS]

  or something and so they did a search [TS]

  for it turned out that they have the [TS]

  telescope blogs and you know allegedly [TS]

  they then use that data to pre discover [TS]

  it before the team that was actually had [TS]

  already discovered just it's it's a good [TS]

  story and and it's funny and if you love [TS]

  Pluto and are very angry that it's not a [TS]

  planet anymore don't read it but [TS]

  otherwise a lot of fun i also read a not [TS]

  as good but a good book if you've ever [TS]

  wondered why the large hadron collider [TS]

  exists and what they're really trying to [TS]

  find there's a good book by Gandhi and [TS]

  sample who works at I think the Guardian [TS]

  in London called massive the missing [TS]

  particle that sparked the greatest hunt [TS]

  in science which explains a lot about [TS]

  the arms race that led to the large [TS]

  hadron collider and the failure of the [TS]

  u.s. to create the superconducting [TS]

  supercollider and sort of the politics [TS]

  of that along with the science and that [TS]

  was a pretty good read to and also [TS]

  pretty fast read and then I novel wise [TS]

  I've been engrossed and I cursed and [TS]

  mourn for doing this to me but I've been [TS]

  engrossed in Lois McMaster Bujold 'he's [TS]

  for cosec and saga [TS]

  oh really i've read eight of them in the [TS]

  last month that is my kindle is loaded [TS]

  with seven of them so yes and what I'll [TS]

  say to people out there is that what one [TS]

  what the publisher did that's very [TS]

  interesting is the latest novel in the [TS]

  series cryo burn comes with a CD and the [TS]

  license on the CDC says that you can you [TS]

  license on the CDC says that you can you [TS]

  can redistribute it on the internet if [TS]

  you like as long as you don't sell it so [TS]

  essentially what they're doing is [TS]

  they're giving away most of the books in [TS]

  the series in e-reader format if you [TS]

  search for i'm sure you could find them [TS]

  with child why my kindle has seven of [TS]

  the market yes and that's why I've read [TS]

  all these but it's brilliant because if [TS]

  she writes another one that I have to [TS]

  buy in fact one of the missing on there [TS]

  there's a book called memory that is [TS]

  omitted because it's not in one of the [TS]

  omnibus edition and and I i got to that [TS]

  book and I said what I don't have that [TS]

  book six dollars you say and that was it [TS]

  I i bought it so it did its job that you [TS]

  know I've got to say they're really good [TS]

  i'm enjoying them greatly [TS]

  so we'll just we'll do a whole miles for [TS]

  coach again podcast at some point but I [TS]

  you know I've been seeing those on Hugo [TS]

  and nebula nominee list over the years [TS]

  and thinking that's a series I you know [TS]

  I can't read it it's such an investment [TS]

  and I made the investment and have had a [TS]

  great time reading those books and [TS]

  ignore the awful cover art [TS]

  yes the cover is atrocious don't mean [TS]

  that's the nice thing about having an [TS]

  e-reader is you can just ignore the [TS]

  cover art on the kindle especially [TS]

  there's no coverage imagine no covered [TS]

  haha so before we go we're going to try [TS]

  something new on the incomparable book [TS]

  club which is we are going to declare [TS]

  this is required us to actually do some [TS]

  work in advance [TS]

  we're going to declare the book that we [TS]

  are going to cover in our next [TS]

  installment which will hopefully this [TS]

  madness people and if not it'll just be [TS]

  me and Scott yes then we'll have dropped [TS]

  out by that game Auryn will have have [TS]

  resigned from the podcast altogether [TS]

  this sort of test is over this podcast [TS]

  is over it'll be the last thing we post [TS]

  anyway so so this is the book that we're [TS]

  going to read so if you would like to [TS]

  not be deterred by the spoiler horn go [TS]

  out and read this book the book we're [TS]

  going to read we mentioned it actually I [TS]

  think maybe even on our first podcast i [TS]

  think i think it was because it has a [TS]

  Zeppelin on to hover on the cover and it [TS]

  figures in prominently into this book [TS]

  gotten some great reviews on a lot of [TS]

  list of the best sci-fi you know and [TS]

  Chandra in general novels of 2011 for [TS]

  2010 so we're going to read it it is the [TS]

  dream of perpetual motion by dexter [TS]

  Palmer [TS]

  and it's available in paperback it's [TS]

  available for kindle so check it out and [TS]

  then we will discuss that back here in a [TS]

  few weeks but we're giving you the [TS]

  warning out there so that you can get [TS]

  caught up with us rather than loading up [TS]

  your book club podcast and going dammit [TS]

  i haven't read that book and then [TS]

  pausing it as being like Scott's wife [TS]

  and saying I can't listen to this [TS]

  podcast and I can't and I would like to [TS]

  point out that i read this book before [TS]

  it was on all of those best of lists [TS]

  know you you get a lot of credibility we [TS]

  look to you Scott to find out what is [TS]

  up-and-coming i am a trendsetter you are [TS]

  i should note this book is available as [TS]

  an e-book from google books among other [TS]

  places [TS]

  it's available in many I get tense every [TS]

  time i say that now but many reputable [TS]

  that's Robbie booksellers and in [TS]

  paperback so it's affordable even if you [TS]

  choose to read it on dead trees was [TS]

  probably in a library near use it is [TS]

  certainly in life there are 16 people [TS]

  headed me at my library i have to kill [TS]

  them all to get the book in time so I'm [TS]

  a bachelor copy that would be at that [TS]

  would be a a novel it with murdering [TS]

  people to get to the book that isn't a [TS]

  waiting list we call the movie called [TS]

  add to hold and then you find out you're [TS]

  reading the book and you realize that [TS]

  you in fact wrote the book [TS]

  well gentlemen thank you for reading the [TS]

  book which puts you ahead of everyone [TS]

  else [TS]

  yes haha and i liked it so it's two out [TS]

  of three one out of three people like [TS]

  two nite i guess it's not worth i would [TS]

  recommend reading it but I wouldn't say [TS]

  that I like this is not funny i like [TS]

  parts of it didn't hold together as a [TS]

  whole but i would recommend reading it [TS]

  was very interesting challenging [TS]

  thought-provoking and Scott you would [TS]

  recommend reading it i would recommend [TS]

  radiant and i would not but that's me i [TS]

  would recommend writing it I that yes [TS]

  before you read it [TS]

  find yourself with a copy of it in the [TS]

  future and shoot him take it and read [TS]

  the book it will have a much deeper [TS]

  meaning if you do yes that's much better [TS]

  alright well until next time i would [TS]

  like to thank my guests Glenn freshman [TS]

  at Scott McNulty thanks guys [TS]

  thank you just [TS]

  thank you and that's it for this edition [TS]

  of the book club [TS]

  thanks for listening to be uncomfortable [TS]

  we'll catch you next time [TS]

  this has been the incomparable podcast [TS]

  visit us at the incomparable dot-com [TS]

  the more not on the podcast but i had to [TS]

  mention it because he's almost on [TS]

  difference like every function isn't [TS]

  that is contractually obligated to [TS]

  mention damn yes well he's he is ill [TS]

  today [TS]

  well I use that as the excuse also [TS]

  hasn't read the book but is it happens [TS]

  to be could be reading it right now and [TS]

  the dog is homework [TS]