The Incomparable

12: He Who Controls Mr. Peanut Controls the World

 

  the incomparable podcast episode 12 [TS]

  November 2010 [TS]

  we're back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

  after a little brief mini hiatus because [TS]

  i was lazy i'm jason l i'm your host [TS]

  today and joining me are three repeaters [TS]

  as we call them in the business like the [TS]

  Ghostbusters called the repeaters when [TS]

  the ghost would come back these [TS]

  repeating phantasms are John siracusa [TS]

  good evening good evening [TS]

  serenity Caldwell ran how you doing I'm [TS]

  doing great how are you Jason I am awake [TS]

  and alive and vertical and that's all I [TS]

  can you know hope for really at this [TS]

  point in my life to get because I'm an [TS]

  old man and eight really goes without [TS]

  saying that they had more and it's also [TS]

  hundreds podcast I'm thinking we should [TS]

  call it the I think this edition should [TS]

  be being comfortable after dark it is [TS]

  we're recording this later than usual [TS]

  much later [TS]

  that's right we're at the Playboy [TS]

  Mansion and sadly sadly we're at our [TS]

  homes alone with only a microphone for [TS]

  comfort [TS]

  that's basically every night for me [TS]

  really do you fall asleep with cradling [TS]

  your microfiber it's a blue snowball [TS]

  it's really it's very it's very [TS]

  comforting [TS]

  I'm creating holding back the jokes [TS]

  incredibly my blue snowball right now in [TS]

  fact you know that sturdy or if you go [TS]

  hey do you like it [TS]

  I was trying to hold back above that [TS]

  last pic simple fix it in post [TS]

  yeah I get that right out like i edited [TS]

  out that 30 seconds of silence in the [TS]

  last podcast got pregnant i plan on [TS]

  trying to subtly stretch out my silences [TS]

  every episode until we actually get to [TS]

  an episode which I have like 35 minutes [TS]

  of silence [TS]

  I think it's telling that I'm you [TS]

  basically stopped talking and nobody [TS]

  noticed [TS]

  yeah but apparently didn't keep talking [TS]

  either did you well no we were really [TS]

  focused on what you weren't saying [TS]

  obviously the subtle nuances of what I [TS]

  don't say that's really the most into [TS]

  spaces between the words really that [TS]

  important [TS]

  yes learn that from harold pinter [TS]

  speaking of harold pinter know [TS]

  excellent thank God our job here in [TS]

  Mexico and the jobs here Harold Pinter [TS]

  is our topic today know [TS]

  now there's an anti Harold Pinter that [TS]

  is a guy's different podcast yes we are [TS]

  going to talk about Joss Whedon today [TS]

  and now you know I i find it interesting [TS]

  he actually is an interesting uh [TS]

  interesting figure because he has a [TS]

  hardcore fanbase that quite frankly i'm [TS]

  often embarrassed to be associated with [TS]

  innocence that I think that he's quite [TS]

  good and has done some of the best TV [TS]

  that's been made and yet that the fans [TS]

  are so rapid that I'm actually a little [TS]

  embarrassed sometimes to admit that yes [TS]

  I i do things like we fine brothers I go [TS]

  ahead [TS]

  it is there like a your find a corollary [TS]

  between as and you know i'm not that I [TS]

  necessarily want Delta too much into are [TS]

  you know professional lives but your [TS]

  find a corollary between being [TS]

  associated as a joss whedon fan of being [TS]

  associated as an apple and he knows [TS]

  honestly there's i think is very similar [TS]

  in many ways on people accuse you of [TS]

  being a cultist that's true that's true [TS]

  i find i find Apple fans to generally be [TS]

  less crazy than joss whedon fans but [TS]

  there's no opposition for waiting fans [TS]

  that right like if you're an apple fan [TS]

  there's an opposition has always been an [TS]

  opposition was the pc got as now as the [TS]

  android guys right there's no there's no [TS]

  anti weeding right there are other [TS]

  people who don't like it's starting [TS]

  that's the thing is like in those people [TS]

  who don't like him [TS]

  it's not people and everything just like [TS]

  it's like it's like apathy like apathy [TS]

  like they don't you know there are [TS]

  people there are people who are who are [TS]

  actively and who doesn't like yeah but [TS]

  listen I know I know I don't buy it but [TS]

  it's it i think it's the same sort of [TS]

  knee-jerk like if anybody if it if they [TS]

  could talk about it this much and like [TS]

  hype it up that much it can't be good [TS]

  and so they just take the knee-jerk [TS]

  reaction that in myself but it's not the [TS]

  same as ever there's no like moss [TS]

  bleedin who has no on an alternate at [TS]

  work but I got sucks up a bit excited [TS]

  accept any show they don't curate it all [TS]

  just any show ended he makes gets on the [TS]

  air [TS]

  yeah i know most bleeding his what else [TS]

  clearances on it friday nights at nine [TS]

  o'clock there's Larry the zombie killer [TS]

  Larry the subculture no one give the [TS]

  church and it was underrated so so just [TS]

  waiting I'm interesting you know he [TS]

  started out he really made his name with [TS]

  buffy the vampire slayer on the WB [TS]

  network [TS]

  witches dead is a vampire now and [TS]

  although i think your face will have a [TS]

  website has been nice [TS]

  I mean vampires are undead that's what I [TS]

  think be the WB is technically better [TS]

  than that [TS]

  well it again into the CW so it's kind [TS]

  of undead flesh of its former self [TS]

  so so and then he went on to a buffy [TS]

  spin-off angel and just to recap the [TS]

  career and then from there he he created [TS]

  a short-lived Fox sci-fi series called [TS]

  firefly which spawned a movie sort of [TS]

  wrap up called serenity [TS]

  yes interesting i'll make the obligatory [TS]

  joke now and then and then I I have to [TS]

  remind myself then he made a show on Fox [TS]

  called dollhouse which don't don't [TS]

  forget a doctor horrible to in there and [TS]

  and yes dr. horrible's sing-along blog [TS]

  the hour-long kind of web special [TS]

  musical which was I thought was [TS]

  excellent so so lots and lots of stuff [TS]

  and now he's sort of doing doing film [TS]

  and he's done some comics is Buffy [TS]

  Season eight the ass [TS]

  what was it a star fishing x-men think [TS]

  so some other stuff like that so he's [TS]

  all over the place he's currently I [TS]

  think writing and directing the avengers [TS]

  movie for Marvel which any wrote cabin [TS]

  in the woods which is coming out the [TS]

  weird horror but not a whore I think [TS]

  they're going rainy Asquith it is the [TS]

  rumor I don't know much about it [TS]

  I don't follow horror movies but yes [TS]

  we'll ask our horror movie guys about [TS]

  that one when it comes out and of course [TS]

  we're talking earlier if you go back [TS]

  before [TS]

  Buffy and of course there was about the [TS]

  movie in the early nineties with Chrissy [TS]

  swims up with he also had a pretty good [TS]

  career as a script doctor in Hollywood [TS]

  indeed worked on Toy Story x-men aliens [TS]

  for okay yeah you know there is a good [TS]

  it's a bad well he tell he tells some [TS]

  good stories about there are some it [TS]

  started out really how the alien [TS]

  resurrection was how he hated the [TS]

  director and the director kept changing [TS]

  things that made no sense and then we'd [TS]

  go to him and say okay now i need to you [TS]

  to change this other scene so it makes [TS]

  sense again and like and it's a good [TS]

  thing it's a good thing that guide [TS]

  going to do anything else no wait uh [TS]

  yeah in fact toy story he had an Oscar [TS]

  nomination because he's credited for the [TS]

  screenplay for that although i don't [TS]

  know how much of that work was actually [TS]

  his in the end because that's such a [TS]

  huge sir factory although i know that [TS]

  the line we need more monkeys as their [TS]

  unspooling the barrel of monkeys [TS]

  I believe that was his as was wine the [TS]

  frog and I think of the x-men lines he [TS]

  was responsible for one of my favorite [TS]

  lines in that entire movie which is the [TS]

  scene where at where Wolverine you know [TS]

  they're wandering around and they've got [TS]

  the shapeshifter among them and Cyclops [TS]

  is to worry wait how do I know you're [TS]

  the world real Wolverine woman says [TS]

  you're a dick [TS]

  I think it's ok it's a great life [TS]

  yeah so so what's interesting here is [TS]

  that we've got I think two people who [TS]

  are late convert stew being interested [TS]

  in joss whedon and that's ren and John [TS]

  and then dan and I kind of start further [TS]

  back damn did you watch Buffy when it [TS]

  was originally on i think i picked up [TS]

  watching it regularly in about season [TS]

  three I start I mean I saw [TS]

  intermittently I saw seasons 1 into a [TS]

  few episodes here and there but I don't [TS]

  think I really sort of full-fledged took [TS]

  off into it until about season three and [TS]

  then I went back later of course and [TS]

  backfilled I've seen I think I've seen [TS]

  the entire series I may have missed an [TS]

  episode in season seven here or there [TS]

  but i'm pretty sure I've seen the entire [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah yeah i remember i actually was home [TS]

  my wife is taking a class and so she was [TS]

  choosing could be home to late night I [TS]

  was at home and and I turned on the TV [TS]

  and buffy the vampire slayer was on my [TS]

  didn't even intend to watch it and that [TS]

  was a long time ago now and i started [TS]

  watching it and was the two-hour pilot [TS]

  and just by luck and i watched started [TS]

  about 20 minutes in and was a was a [TS]

  midseason in 97 [TS]

  yeah they shot the first 13 episodes I [TS]

  think about whole first season before [TS]

  any of them erred because it aired in [TS]

  january i think [TS]

  yep and so they didn't know what would [TS]

  happen and they could they figured it [TS]

  would probably just run [TS]

  then be done so that's one of the [TS]

  reasons why what became sort of a [TS]

  trademark for JA sweetness that he [TS]

  actually had closure at the end of the [TS]

  seasons instead of cliffhangers which i [TS]

  think with Buffy which was really [TS]

  interesting but I i got to the end of it [TS]

  and then I pick my wife up at the train [TS]

  station after her she was getting back [TS]

  for her class and I said you know I [TS]

  watched buffy the vampire show and it [TS]

  was actually but it was good and and [TS]

  that was it we actually watch the pilot [TS]

  and she watching for the first time when [TS]

  they replayed over the weekend and [TS]

  surprisingly intelligent show and you [TS]

  know I I will you know i'll fight for [TS]

  that show is one of the best shows ever [TS]

  made actually I i think that's a [TS]

  fantastic piece of work although in the [TS]

  end it's got some real ups and downs as [TS]

  it went along I think that the first [TS]

  season is really low budget they're [TS]

  finding their feet which all shot on [TS]

  like the first two seasons were shot in [TS]

  16-millimeter film so they're really [TS]

  kind of grainy and the special effects [TS]

  are cheap and but the writing is really [TS]

  sharp the second season the drama the [TS]

  whole Buffy and Angel there is really [TS]

  wrap that up so powerful and such a [TS]

  great ending where she sacrifices him [TS]

  and yeah then he comes back and he gets [TS]

  his own show and whatever that that [TS]

  second season still pretty amazing [TS]

  I do feel like the fifth season of buffy [TS]

  it ends with her dying she sacrifices [TS]

  herself to save her sister and that was [TS]

  supposed to sort of be a potential [TS]

  ending because they guess the show is [TS]

  there is some chance that was not going [TS]

  to get picked up [TS]

  well i think i think it was always going [TS]

  to come back but there was some question [TS]

  about it because that was that it [TS]

  actually the contract was up after five [TS]

  years and in the end it moved to another [TS]

  network for its last two years to upn [TS]

  which ended up getting sucked into that [TS]

  the CW afterlife as well eventually uh [TS]

  so uh you know I the last two seasons [TS]

  with the exception of that wonderful [TS]

  musical episode i think the last two [TS]

  seasons above your kind of forgettable [TS]

  to the point where I almost it prefer to [TS]

  think of that last as terrible as it is [TS]

  to say i like it when Buffy died at the [TS]

  end I'm gonna like that I I thought that [TS]

  was kinda was a good it was a good cap [TS]

  piece to the entire [TS]

  story and i think the sixties and really [TS]

  struggles and I mean both in terms of [TS]

  the plot which itself is about her [TS]

  struggling with coming back and in terms [TS]

  of and having said all that spike [TS]

  yes I mean there are there are some ups [TS]

  and downs i agree that I think the sixth [TS]

  season the second half of the back end [TS]

  of the sixth season is probably I [TS]

  thought it was really good i really [TS]

  enjoyed it and that was one that I had [TS]

  not seen that for a long time i actually [TS]

  ended up watching that only 45 years ago [TS]

  because i missed I think that was that [TS]

  was the season to transition the upn and [TS]

  then we lost upn in i was in college [TS]

  then and we just misplaced it somewhere [TS]

  no we didn't we didn't get it that was [TS]

  the thing it wasn't it was not available [TS]

  in office and grow upstate New York [TS]

  unfortunately unless you have a [TS]

  satellite dish and so for a little while [TS]

  we had somebody at someones friends [TS]

  parents lived in the area they had a [TS]

  satellite dish they were taping it [TS]

  giving it to us and then just download [TS]

  of that was not really an option except [TS]

  hit wow that was those were the days [TS]

  yeah hanging at nine years ago ten Jason [TS]

  have you seen the movie before you saw [TS]

  the serious i had not seen the movie [TS]

  before I saw the series and then I'm not [TS]

  one at some point i went back and i [TS]

  watched the movie and I was horrified at [TS]

  how terrible it was you know i will i [TS]

  will actually defend it i don't think [TS]

  it's a tear I don't think it's that [TS]

  terrible movie isnot the show it is [TS]

  clearly not the show I think as a as a [TS]

  sort of cult movie i think it's got a [TS]

  lot going for it but is very very [TS]

  different from the show [TS]

  yeah I mean I think joss whedon was [TS]

  really disappointed and it just because [TS]

  he was going for [TS]

  he was going for a different kind of I [TS]

  he was going for that kind of kind of [TS]

  comedy allegory thing and they were they [TS]

  were going a little cheesier and all the [TS]

  other very campy there's not there's not [TS]

  much drama in it if any but it's still [TS]

  got it's you know it's still mildly it's [TS]

  still amusing it's still an entertaining [TS]

  sort of cult movie I me now Paul Reubens [TS]

  it has I i really like him in that movie [TS]

  it's pretty great rutger hauer is it to [TS]

  in Donald Sutherland's got a good cast [TS]

  party was one of the first shows that [TS]

  genre shows if not the first time I ever [TS]

  experience where it had just incredible [TS]

  appeal with women who I knew that you [TS]

  know a lot of the sci-fi shows you know [TS]

  outer space shows and spaceship shows it [TS]

  was [TS]

  good definitely i'm mostly guy thing and [TS]

  with Buffy not i think not just because [TS]

  of the female protagonist but i think [TS]

  because a lot of the the I mean a lot of [TS]

  strong women characters and along with a [TS]

  lot of strong messages about women that [TS]

  it it i mean there's more of this now [TS]

  that i think there was back with Buffy [TS]

  was was first premiering where were you [TS]

  saw John we show that actually had that [TS]

  appeal to women rent have you watched [TS]

  much [TS]

  Buffy after the factor you more agile [TS]

  it's actually it's kind of amusing [TS]

  because the first episode i've seen for [TS]

  Buffy episodes to date I drinks and the [TS]

  first di now I'm it's been online to [TS]

  watch list for years and I've just never [TS]

  got around to it but the first but the [TS]

  episode i ever saw was the season five [TS]

  finale of all things [TS]

  oh so she dies the end yeah well they [TS]

  did that episode has like I clip package [TS]

  that does like the first if you ever use [TS]

  it in like full form they have a clip [TS]

  package that recaps the first five [TS]

  species me everything to date which is [TS]

  there you're all cut up [TS]

  what more do you know it's true i needed [TS]

  it made a fair amount of sense [TS]

  considering the fact that I was coming [TS]

  into the show knowing nothing about it [TS]

  other than presumably there's a girl [TS]

  named buffy who slays vampires but I [TS]

  mean the little life so I've seen that [TS]

  I've seen the musical episode and I've [TS]

  seen a couple of scattered episodes that [TS]

  i can't remember off the top of my head [TS]

  but I mean I'd always struck me as an [TS]

  intriguing show and never liked it was [TS]

  always like on the bubble for me where [TS]

  it was [TS]

  maybe I'd like this show if I gave it a [TS]

  chance but I don't have the time right [TS]

  now and there are so many more [TS]

  interesting things to be watching and [TS]

  then it just kind of get kept on getting [TS]

  pushed back and back but i'm i'm curious [TS]

  to finally like now that once once we [TS]

  get into November hiatus for current [TS]

  television and I can go back to watching [TS]

  back in television it's on my list but i [TS]

  mean i think it's interesting [TS]

  overall just Whedon has really made a [TS]

  name for himself in strong female [TS]

  characters and strong female writing [TS]

  going back to what you're saying Jason I [TS]

  mean that's that's always something I [TS]

  mean he has been a personal champion [TS]

  about you know girl should kick ass and [TS]

  girls should have their own personal [TS]

  messages both in his shows and also [TS]

  championing it into like [TS]

  stuff that he works with i find [TS]

  fascinating really [TS]

  yeah absolutely one of the first names [TS]

  that I ever associated with you know it [TS]

  was at the point of my life was like I [TS]

  watched a few television shows and you [TS]

  don't really know who's behind them [TS]

  necessarily when you're like a teenager [TS]

  whatever you're just like oh that shows [TS]

  maybe I chose funny but he was one of [TS]

  the first people like creative talents [TS]

  that I started following because i [TS]

  thought this show is so good i need to [TS]

  see what else this guy's done but who is [TS]

  this guy and he became you know one of [TS]

  those names showrunner people were you [TS]

  like I wanna it's a show by that guy oh [TS]

  that guy [TS]

  yeah and of course that's expanded over [TS]

  the years but i think he was really for [TS]

  me one of the first people that I was [TS]

  like that's a guy you know I want to [TS]

  follow everything that he does we just [TS]

  watch the credits and you see these [TS]

  episodes written by joss whedon who is [TS]

  the creator of the show and you're like [TS]

  okay this guy's interesting and then [TS]

  suddenly he starts directing episodes [TS]

  that he's written and the ones that he's [TS]

  written and directed or like these you [TS]

  know special episodes that have [TS]

  different things about them like wash [TS]

  the episode that has a 35 minute period [TS]

  where there's no spoken dialogue because [TS]

  everybody loses their voices and and [TS]

  instead of one of the are my argument to [TS]

  the three best there are three episodes [TS]

  to me that totally stand out from that [TS]

  show [TS]

  go for it on which are the best sort of [TS]

  scary episode which i think is hush [TS]

  yes i watch it on and i was actually [TS]

  actually gave me nightmares on more than [TS]

  one occasion [TS]

  yeah a little bit of a dark city ripoff [TS]

  but who cares generate but the gentlemen [TS]

  are Terry truly really scary once more [TS]

  with feeling the musical episode a [TS]

  musical episode which is fantastic and [TS]

  then the best dramatic episode of the [TS]

  entire series is the body [TS]

  oh the the one where I'd hate to say [TS]

  anything about it just because I do what [TS]

  you have to find the boiler horn let's [TS]

  not even do it [TS]

  aight no but I'll just say that it is [TS]

  one of the most moving sort of like [TS]

  emotional hours on television that no [TS]

  more not think that I did not think that [TS]

  like television was necessarily capable [TS]

  of opening but i watch that it came out [TS]

  when I was living in Scotland studying [TS]

  abroad and like we had a friend who is [TS]

  getting tape scent of the episodes that [TS]

  were airing and so they sent it to us [TS]

  and i remember watching it on a little [TS]

  tiny like like nine inch television that [TS]

  I had borrowed from my friend like nine [TS]

  inch television BCR [TS]

  combo sitting in my room by myself like [TS]

  like tearing up just because it was so [TS]

  emotional it's just I never I don't [TS]

  think even since then I've run into an [TS]

  episode of television that has made me [TS]

  do that that was a written and directed [TS]

  by and that episode also had no music [TS]

  that was that was the thing that you [TS]

  said there's a musical episode and then [TS]

  there's the episode where there is no [TS]

  music and the episode no sound which is [TS]

  the only upset i think that was ever [TS]

  given an Emmy for right yeah yeah [TS]

  unfortunately no dialogue [TS]

  yeah I guess but the episode that always [TS]

  comes to mind for me although that [TS]

  climax of season two really hit for me [TS]

  is there's an episode and again i'm not [TS]

  gonna file off the fire out the spoiler [TS]

  horn we did mention but he dies at the [TS]

  end of season I already already said she [TS]

  died of the disease if I what I didn't [TS]

  know then their caller see how you're [TS]

  worried about sports or and so put that [TS]

  together thank their two more seasons [TS]

  there flash yeah she's not in the last [TS]

  pieces [TS]

  no it's very confusing that's why wasn't [TS]

  this with a switch to a dog at the buffy [TS]

  so yeah that part's hair that's right [TS]

  Doggett and Reyes the vampire agents [TS]

  that's a whole other podcast so there's [TS]

  an episode in The Who second season in [TS]

  the kind of Angel arc arc or passion [TS]

  which is the episode again we are [TS]

  getting into too many details is the [TS]

  episode where you really realize but [TS]

  Joss Whedon and this has become a thing [TS]

  with him but this was the first time [TS]

  where you realize joss whedon is not [TS]

  afraid to have regular characters on his [TS]

  show [TS]

  murder murder permanent murder dead dead [TS]

  other characters on his irregular [TS]

  characters as one of the characters in [TS]

  the cast brutally murders another one [TS]

  and the ramifications go for the rest of [TS]

  the series brilliant I mean I know it [TS]

  sounds terrible but the way it's done [TS]

  it's a it that was the moment where I [TS]

  was like okay this guy this guy is doing [TS]

  great work not just good work but great [TS]

  work [TS]

  the only other show that I've seen that [TS]

  carries that to such an extent is [TS]

  possibly the FX show the shield which [TS]

  has something terrible happened in the [TS]

  first episode [TS]

  that literally last the entire seven [TS]

  seasons like a zit Lissa's undercurrent [TS]

  all the way to the end [TS]

  no like yeah joss whedon does a great [TS]

  job of any not only is he not afraid to [TS]

  kill people is not afraid to like have [TS]

  things change you know this is the point [TS]

  at which you realize this is not just a [TS]

  like formulaic every week there's a [TS]

  there's a monster and they fight off the [TS]

  monster and that's the end like bad [TS]

  stuff happens and you know he's the [TS]

  characters are rarely happy for any [TS]

  length of time right and and there's a [TS]

  you know they they progress through high [TS]

  school and college and out into the real [TS]

  world which is a kind of a nice they [TS]

  don't try to pretend that the high [TS]

  school has gone on for eight years [TS]

  although there is eating into the shield [TS]

  the first episode of Buffy there is a [TS]

  character who is parent played by eric [TS]

  balfour and again I i I'm not gonna fire [TS]

  off the spoiler warning here but let me [TS]

  just say eric balfour he's not in the [TS]

  show he's only in the pilot but he's [TS]

  played the way that he's played is that [TS]

  he he's part of the cast essentially and [TS]

  then they kill him which is great [TS]

  because it's that moment we are like you [TS]

  know these three sidekicks and only two [TS]

  of them make it and you if you're [TS]

  watching the show for the first time you [TS]

  have no idea that one of the one of [TS]

  these random people is is gonna die in [TS]

  the other two we're gonna make it [TS]

  it's willow and Xander and Jesse by Eric [TS]

  played by eric balfour the problem is [TS]

  that that just call for never quite [TS]

  never quite rebounded from that he never [TS]

  makes it [TS]

  yes you can go see him in skyline which [TS]

  is a terrible movie that's out now I [TS]

  think and we every time we see him and [TS]

  be like hey it's jesse the guy who died [TS]

  in the first episode of Buffy but the [TS]

  the but the thing is the point is unlike [TS]

  the shield Jesse's death has no [TS]

  ramifications and I always thought that [TS]

  was a little strange like jesse was like [TS]

  willow and Xander's best buddy and he's [TS]

  never mentioned again and he doesn't [TS]

  show up and I mean maybe they couldn't [TS]

  get him but he doesn't show up in [TS]

  alternate realities are flashbacks or [TS]

  anything he's jet and there they would [TS]

  have been some great opportunities for [TS]

  that too yeah yeah so in in the got the [TS]

  doppelganger episode in the first [TS]

  yeah absolutely but instead it's just [TS]

  you know let's never speak better feel [TS]

  for again so so send anyone just met you [TS]

  Buffy you know so i guess i will go on [TS]

  my list of five like the five days [TS]

  mr. my high fidelity like a list of the [TS]

  top five all-time TV shows [TS]

  buffy is number one with a big shiny [TS]

  star next number one number one makes it [TS]

  makes me want to watch the whole series [TS]

  so i can argue with you number 1 i've [TS]

  seen a bunch of episodes but number one [TS]

  number one number one autumn busy but [TS]

  you're thinking but Max Headroom is [TS]

  number two by the way i was gonna give [TS]

  you top five maybe but next max headroom [TS]

  law and lost is in there somewhere but [TS]

  although lost at one point was looking [TS]

  like it might slide in there at number [TS]

  one no later season visited season for [TS]

  the what a sixties and happened and yeah [TS]

  uh-hum another podcast for that so [TS]

  before we go to Firefly which is for the [TS]

  other just wish I really wanted to talk [TS]

  about and I know that john andrade have [TS]

  a lot to say about it will jump over [TS]

  angel other than to say that for a show [TS]

  that was kind of what I heard there's [TS]

  gonna be an angel spin-off I kind of [TS]

  couldn't believe it because i really [TS]

  hate that guy [TS]

  cat you know he's like Captain handsome [TS]

  me see I'm oh I'm a vampire and I'm [TS]

  Moody and turns out David Boreanaz [TS]

  actually pretty good actor and you know [TS]

  what he was so good that in fact the [TS]

  first time i watched an episode of bones [TS]

  which was his later show [TS]

  yes I thought it strange to see him in [TS]

  the daylight which isn't yeah the [TS]

  University of claim and you know for [TS]

  someone I agree I agree totally that he [TS]

  surprised me with how distinct those [TS]

  being the sort of major characters is [TS]

  played to date those two characters [TS]

  they're very different and he does a [TS]

  very good job of portraying them as very [TS]

  different people I thought maybe he [TS]

  might be kind of a one-trick pony but I [TS]

  actually think that he's actually he's [TS]

  pretty talented [TS]

  not to mention that show has one of my [TS]

  favorite character arcs of all time from [TS]

  a spin-off character from you from Buffy [TS]

  which is Wesley one of the watchers who [TS]

  is one of my favorite characters because [TS]

  he goes from being a kind of you know [TS]

  you're very stuck-up pretentious nerdy [TS]

  type into a very different sort of [TS]

  character by the end of angel absolutely [TS]

  and i love that progression for him he [TS]

  is it just it's and it's wrenching at [TS]

  times like he goes through some truly [TS]

  awful things and does some truly awful [TS]

  thing until survive what five seasons [TS]

  five seasons it was cancelled [TS]

  midway through the fifth season and so [TS]

  they basically got enough time to try [TS]

  and dig in ending out of it i said no i [TS]

  think the fifth season was actually the [TS]

  22nd episode I don't think they lost any [TS]

  count [TS]

  no they didn't but they didn't know it [TS]

  was going to be a school until about [TS]

  halfway through the season so they had [TS]

  to like scramble to try and put like [TS]

  wrap the entire series up and they and [TS]

  they seem to not really they they're [TS]

  ending is very abrupt and kind of [TS]

  deliberately so that's what and you sort [TS]

  of like to believe that everybody's [TS]

  gonna die although you know they'll [TS]

  probably get out of it except it doesn't [TS]

  come back so who knows maybe they'd all [TS]

  die right then it's also odd because it [TS]

  doesn't really linked into the Buffy [TS]

  Season eight comics writer is a comic [TS]

  book series that picks up for Angel [TS]

  after where it left off but is not canon [TS]

  and it's also a terrible [TS]

  yes but i will say angel has some truly [TS]

  great standard episode i think the [TS]

  fourth I think the fourth season of [TS]

  angel which is this sort of like there's [TS]

  a there's a prophecy of course it's [TS]

  always a prophecy but it's like it's [TS]

  really dark and there's and la is going [TS]

  to kind of get pulled into hell and and [TS]

  that fourth season of angel really great [TS]

  i see i would argue that might be its [TS]

  weakest Tom I think it has value and [TS]

  great stand on episodes including one [TS]

  really fantastic episode where you it's [TS]

  cut the whole thing is kind of a [TS]

  bait-and-switch and it's kind of a major [TS]

  episode in terms of the progression of [TS]

  yes season but there I found the Dumont [TS]

  of the season like that he do in are you [TS]

  referring to the raiders of the lost ark [TS]

  episode [TS]

  yes yes ok are there is an episode where [TS]

  where it seems strangely like greatest [TS]

  the Lost Ark and it turns out there's a [TS]

  reason for it out what before we move on [TS]

  one more thing I want to plug 1 episode [TS]

  of angel is nothing is small-time which [TS]

  have written by joss whedon but written [TS]

  by ben edlund who did the tick and it is [TS]

  angel gets turned into a wee little [TS]

  puppet man I'm of it [TS]

  yeah he's great that's great episode [TS]

  angel fantastic ok moving on out of the [TS]

  buffyverse to the what turned out to be [TS]

  really his biggest kind of failure and [TS]

  yet I think cult success which is [TS]

  firefly the sci-fi show on the fox [TS]

  network that got cancelled midstream [TS]

  and i ended up getting picked up in a [TS]

  movie [TS]

  how many of you watched it was on i'm [TS]

  carrying i watched when I was on me I [TS]

  didn't know I live the hard real-time [TS]

  the terrible and I mean it's john to the [TS]

  point where they asked the last episode [TS]

  they aired was the was the pilot that [TS]

  they'd refuse to run and and i watch [TS]

  that pilot and I thought to myself one [TS]

  why didn't they run this it's great why [TS]

  didn't they make that the first episode [TS]

  out of the gate because it might have [TS]

  really was fantastic and people metal [TS]

  really liked it if they had seen it and [TS]

  2i i watch that pilot of firefly and [TS]

  thought to myself this might be the best [TS]

  single thing that joss whedon is done [TS]

  I mean I always that impressed with it I [TS]

  i watched it out of order as they aired [TS]

  it and you know it was weird because i [TS]

  watch that first episode which is the [TS]

  second episode and i was very lukewarm [TS]

  on the show because you are sort of [TS]

  thrust into it without any idea of who [TS]

  these people are what they're doing of [TS]

  why they're how they're involved what's [TS]

  the bigger picture there's a shortcut [TS]

  hang right but if there's some shorthand [TS]

  but it's not you know what regular wrote [TS]

  it I want the wind as a as a basically [TS]

  it's not even the second episode they [TS]

  actually it is anybody wrote it and [TS]

  inserted it to be like a fake pilot and [TS]

  it's you know yeah and it's not it has [TS]

  some good moments but its overall not a [TS]

  great episode and certainly not a good [TS]

  first episode [TS]

  oh absolutely wasn't until I went back [TS]

  and we watched it like I I again like [TS]

  Jason I saw the pilot was like well that [TS]

  makes a lot of sense that would be nice [TS]

  to know so i went back and rewatch after [TS]

  the left of the dvds came out all in [TS]

  order it was just like wow okay but the [TS]

  second time through really solidified [TS]

  for me that it was a great job [TS]

  oh absolutely i mean I today when i was [TS]

  first watching it I mean I didn't even I [TS]

  don't think I caught all of the episodes [TS]

  when i was first watching what was on [TS]

  television part 1 because they just kept [TS]

  on scheduling them so weirdly but I mean [TS]

  the first like that when I saw the [TS]

  second episode that the fake pilot so to [TS]

  speak I was like yeah this is a this is [TS]

  fun and I was interested mainly because [TS]

  i like watching science fiction [TS]

  television shows i mean i watch The Lone [TS]

  Gunmen for great stakes but [TS]

  I mean I why I really wasn't sold on it [TS]

  and I like as the point where I didn't [TS]

  really go out of my way to watch the [TS]

  episodes its just oh it's friday night [TS]

  Hey look maybe an episode of firefly is [TS]

  on but i ended up finding the boxset [TS]

  like two years later and then going back [TS]

  and watching and I don't even think i [TS]

  saw the original pilot until I got my [TS]

  hands on the box that again and when I [TS]

  got the box that I watched it in order [TS]

  all the way through and it's it's [TS]

  astounding how much better the show is [TS]

  even with like the little bits that they [TS]

  had to tweak and trim and obviously they [TS]

  were working on budget working on [TS]

  deadline and things like that but it's [TS]

  still it's an astounding piece of work [TS]

  for 14 episodes there are two episodes [TS]

  that didn't but you couldn't have seen [TS]

  the remarks that because they didn't [TS]

  even interactive old yeah once you have [TS]

  downloaded baffling someone's it i mean [TS]

  and not only that but for me you know i [TS]

  remember showing trying to convince my [TS]

  best friend that this net you gotta [TS]

  watch the show right and unfortunately [TS]

  it took me like the entire length of the [TS]

  time was on so I basically got him i [TS]

  watch the last episode not the pilot but [TS]

  the one would be at the bounty hunter [TS]

  right and it's a kind of figured episode [TS]

  it's very out of character for the shell [TS]

  is still very character and it's strange [TS]

  and if you come into that nest do we put [TS]

  this urgency i don't think it makes a [TS]

  very good impression because it's a very [TS]

  weird episode and he was like that seems [TS]

  very strange i don't really get it I'm [TS]

  like no you gotta trust me the rest of [TS]

  this was way better [TS]

  he never trusted you again no no he [TS]

  eventually watched it and like and what [TS]

  did you know as I knew that he would [TS]

  because he's a man of good taste but at [TS]

  the same time it was a it was made it [TS]

  harder to sell because it's all that's [TS]

  that one weird show you maybe watch that [TS]

  strange episode of well I will say [TS]

  something about Firefly and that each [TS]

  episode does have a joss whedon maybe [TS]

  because he partially nude the show might [TS]

  be doomed he started playing with very [TS]

  interesting things in sort of [TS]

  encompassing single episodes like out of [TS]

  that's out of gas right that is the [TS]

  money under 18 out of gas [TS]

  it's it's I don't know what the name is [TS]

  I don't remember the title because Jubal [TS]

  Early yes I remember I remember the [TS]

  character and but I mean out of gases is [TS]

  a different but also equally viable for [TS]

  30 seconds yeah the flashback episode [TS]

  where you have basically an entire an [TS]

  entire narrative very different [TS]

  narrative from the rest of the show and [TS]

  the bounty hunter episode is a very [TS]

  different narrative and Ariel when they [TS]

  actually you know that area which is one [TS]

  of their biggest sort of budget episodes [TS]

  where they go down to they go planetside [TS]

  and do a lot of crazy crazy antics and [TS]

  you get sort of the bigger mythology [TS]

  there i think just reading was playing [TS]

  with a lot of different things which I [TS]

  found really interesting John you're a [TS]

  big firefly supporter right well see i [TS]

  have to go back way back to the buffy [TS]

  movie i think to explain my Firefly [TS]

  thing because i saw the bottom yet and I [TS]

  don't remember why i thought i think i [TS]

  might even seen the theater who never [TS]

  lost a best I i saw that you know [TS]

  somebody with some silly throw anything [TS]

  whatever and then they were making the [TS]

  TV series of it and i really i said [TS]

  they're making a TV series of that movie [TS]

  is ridiculous so i didn't watch it a [TS]

  bunch of people who is friends with [TS]

  watching and they don't you gotta watch [TS]

  buffy the vampire slayer it's a great [TS]

  like me talking about i saw that movie [TS]

  the television shows gonna be worse than [TS]

  the movie and I don't understand why you [TS]

  guys are watching it so I had this anti [TS]

  weedy sentiment going that you know we'd [TS]

  is overhyped I don't understand what [TS]

  people see in this thing you know I [TS]

  would watch like happen episode to say [TS]

  no this is horrible this is like Sweet [TS]

  Valley High meets you know bad sitcom [TS]

  well you know I'm feeling i would agree [TS]

  to go to I coupling i'm not saying this [TS]

  is true because i'm re-watching it now [TS]

  and I see that there's more to it but [TS]

  you know I'm just saying where I'm [TS]

  coming from sure so I had no interest in [TS]

  weeding although I did see his name on [TS]

  Toy Story credits in like hey there's [TS]

  that bucket the vampire slayer guy i saw [TS]

  it i think it was like when it was on [TS]

  VHS or something whatever was a very DVD [TS]

  even but I started it put the pieces [TS]

  together some firefly came out of my car [TS]

  spaceships fox i watch it i'll give it a [TS]

  try and i think it was this was the very [TS]

  first episode maybe i'm wrong about yeah [TS]

  i think it was the the first one that [TS]

  aired I watched it it was like said you [TS]

  don't know who the characters are they [TS]

  do have a spaceship they do spaceship be [TS]

  kind of thing [TS]

  but two things were kind of keeping me [TS]

  watching one was a mega millions [TS]

  charisma sort of comes off the screen [TS]

  you like a ride that guy I've never seen [TS]

  him before but never seems to be fun and [TS]

  I think at the very end of the episode [TS]

  is the one where he kicks the guy into [TS]

  the engine [TS]

  yes grazie so i'm watching this thing [TS]

  like our goofy comedy case guy the [TS]

  engine and if I had been drinking [TS]

  something I want to spit all over the [TS]

  suffering it up it just came out of left [TS]

  field and on and this was kind of my [TS]

  clue that like whoever this guy is he's [TS]

  not afraid of ridiculous tonal shifts [TS]

  and like it's not gonna be like one kind [TS]

  of show like you know for example the [TS]

  x-files and a certain mood and that was [TS]

  what the show is about a certain [TS]

  sensibility this guy was willing to go [TS]

  from like you know corny drama too weird [TS]

  sci-fi too ridiculous slapstick humor in [TS]

  like you know in two seconds and and as [TS]

  you two later and in some other work and [TS]

  everything he's going to go right from [TS]

  like you know comedy and and the absurd [TS]

  right into like gasoline and dramatic [TS]

  and like you know heart-wrenching we've [TS]

  been like two seconds [TS]

  i'm dr. Horrible's that like uh yeah [TS]

  sounds like a horrible one dies in 40 [TS]

  minutes yeah yeah [TS]

  twist the knife at the end so that's [TS]

  what made me say I'm gonna be watching [TS]

  the show because I don't know but [TS]

  whatever where this guy is I still [TS]

  didn't have any interesting but I said [TS]

  he's unpredictable he's not doing what I [TS]

  think he's going to do in the show em [TS]

  and then of course you start watching [TS]

  you get into the characters and you see [TS]

  that we continue doing that I was [TS]

  thinking it's Bobby like this is why [TS]

  everybody loved Buffy and now going back [TS]

  and watching buffy so far I'm almost [TS]

  through with season one I still don't [TS]

  quite see any of that Firefly magic and [TS]

  Bobby maybe the seeds of it are there [TS]

  but i'll keep watching and see how it [TS]

  goes but powerful I was just you know it [TS]

  was just confounding expectations at [TS]

  every turn and it had spaceships and [TS]

  like that episode with the bounty hunter [TS]

  i love that one because that bounty [TS]

  hunter was nuts like the characters are [TS]

  consistently and that made me the whole [TS]

  episode was ridiculous and strange and [TS]

  like you know sometimes life is [TS]

  ridiculous and strange like sure i will [TS]

  go with that like if they had a musical [TS]

  surrounding episode 5 episode maybe I [TS]

  wouldn't have gone along that but maybe [TS]

  i would like I think you could you could [TS]

  go in any direction so you can pull it [TS]

  off [TS]

  I was just insanely addicted to that [TS]

  show because not only was I desperate [TS]

  for sci-fi but he was a sci-fi show that [TS]

  was just you know interesting and great [TS]

  in the can [TS]

  it was wonderful and it is the kind of [TS]

  show it's where the more you watch it [TS]

  seems a lot longer than its 14 episodes [TS]

  but the more you watch it the more you [TS]

  just want to see more of those [TS]

  characters i think so i think part of it [TS]

  is that it's amazing to me like clearly [TS]

  how tight knit the the relationship [TS]

  between all the all the actors and again [TS]

  then that's true and everything is [TS]

  because it's still I mean be as much a [TS]

  cult show it still keeps cropping up i [TS]

  mean i love the fact that i'm nathan [TS]

  fillion is current show castle where he [TS]

  plays a you know a thriller writer there [TS]

  have been at least two or three episodes [TS]

  with references to firefly including the [TS]

  one that aired this past week in which [TS]

  he whips out so chinese and when asked [TS]

  how those Chinese the show used to watch [TS]

  you know it's it's I find that like [TS]

  clearly as even as an actor he was not [TS]

  just a job for a lot of these guys who [TS]

  are on the show because they still go to [TS]

  conventions and they talk about it and [TS]

  there's all sorts of you know you see [TS]

  them turn up and start casting I thought [TS]

  it was funny that on the same night that [TS]

  they have a firefly reference on Castle [TS]

  the show that airs opposite on NBC Chuck [TS]

  which has added Baldwin who played Jane [TS]

  on fireflight had a guest star of summer [TS]

  glau who played river on firefly like [TS]

  they clearly you know all this stuff [TS]

  keeps is sort of sticks around in some [TS]

  way there's a lot of lasting impact from [TS]

  the Sun make you sad though it does in [TS]

  some ways like I wish there was more but [TS]

  I guess part of it like you know felt [TS]

  like it felt to me like you if the stars [TS]

  ever aligned all those people would be [TS]

  like yeah I'll totally be there you know [TS]

  to do something but I'm gonna get old [TS]

  like everything in some sense it's nice [TS]

  that he died young and that it never got [TS]

  to go through that that you know where [TS]

  you know all the shows going to go off [TS]

  the cliff around season five or six or [TS]

  seven when they run out of things to do [TS]

  or he'll kill the main character [TS]

  whatever they want to do but this just [TS]

  had 11 short season and just feel like [TS]

  it was too early and to see that you [TS]

  know the see the same actors like nathan [TS]

  fillion like he excited he's got like [TS]

  charisma that just jumps so great [TS]

  natural smacks you in the face right and [TS]

  every time it seems like you should not [TS]

  be in the show about the right there or [TS]

  not that's not how you doing and getting [TS]

  elevators here he elevates that show and [TS]

  by does this prime sure he does but it's [TS]

  just like like you people are wasted and [TS]

  don't like [TS]

  Chuck you know the character he's wasted [TS]

  there to compare his character on Chuck [TS]

  to what to Jane he's a very [TS]

  disappointing character by but I see is [TS]

  yet he still has a place in my heart [TS]

  posted it just makes it that involved in [TS]

  episodes is not enough ice almost sure I [TS]

  saw my show where he played a total and [TS]

  others like straight man which was the [TS]

  2-minute show the inside i believe which [TS]

  did not last very long to maneuver who [TS]

  worked on Firefly and that was very [TS]

  disappointing in that regard [TS]

  yeah it's the cast is kind of amazing [TS]

  for firefly and fillion i'm in philly in [TS]

  such a huge part of that hehe is he's [TS]

  like Han Solo basically I mean he's that [TS]

  kind of character is like he's got all [TS]

  those pieces and he's got the layers and [TS]

  he's got the gruff outside and you know [TS]

  and you always he always shoots first [TS]

  yeah he always eats first exactly until [TS]

  they do the the revisited version of [TS]

  fire and it wasn't just like the [TS]

  unlikable like hustles like unlikable [TS]

  but you know is really likable mouth [TS]

  sometimes unlikable and just plain [TS]

  unlikable you know like something he did [TS]

  things that were unlikable he wasn't [TS]

  like all we really know your sweetheart [TS]

  no he did mean things that you really [TS]

  like you really believe he would have [TS]

  put Jane out the airlock I was a hundred [TS]

  % yep he's gonna kill me that's up to me [TS]

  was it was a hundred percent in [TS]

  character I totally believed he would do [TS]

  it [TS]

  the fact that he didn't didn't feel bad [TS]

  or anything to me but it's like that [TS]

  established that character to the point [TS]

  where you know any other show you were [TS]

  like right yeah any other show you know [TS]

  it's not gonna happen and butter and one [TS]

  of his shows and you know even with that [TS]

  much you know just a couple episodes [TS]

  under the belt you're like Pepe could do [TS]

  that i can see it happening and i have [TS]

  never even seen buffy known that you [TS]

  know other characters kill other [TS]

  characters you know that's the those 14 [TS]

  episodes i think you make a good point [TS]

  John it feels to me almost like not [TS]

  quite like they had three seasons and [TS]

  it's and and you know somebody they were [TS]

  deleting the tapes and only 14 episodes [TS]

  could be picked [TS]

  but it does feel like in those 14 [TS]

  episodes they they showed the sort of [TS]

  all the different ways you could play [TS]

  that show because they are so the [TS]

  episodes are so varied and that's not [TS]

  bad for first season when usually think [TS]

  about it [TS]

  usually the first season of the show [TS]

  it's just getting at sea legs right i [TS]

  mean you very rarely say oh that first [TS]

  season was the best right you that never [TS]

  happens it's always the second or the [TS]

  third the fourth [TS]

  I which on one level makes me think [TS]

  imagine what firefly could have ended up [TS]

  being another level it's sorta like [TS]

  maybe it's maybe this was just a [TS]

  different kind of shape of a show and [TS]

  they they figured it out and left a [TS]

  beautiful corpse [TS]

  well I mean we really didn't even get to [TS]

  the mythology I mean there's only a [TS]

  couple dudes did blue hands like two or [TS]

  three times you're like I guess that's [TS]

  going to be the ark and it's over and [TS]

  then when the movie basically the movie [TS]

  is the are not pressed into a movie at [TS]

  that was also kind of depressing like [TS]

  the movie bother me and you know it i [TS]

  guess the tone was like this series but [TS]

  like when they had the character died at [TS]

  the end I mean if that had happened at [TS]

  the end of a season I would have felt [TS]

  more okay with it but in the movie it's [TS]

  like yeah you know it you're right it [TS]

  was compressed it was everything squish [TS]

  down everything kind of rushing around [TS]

  but a lot of that show that was nice [TS]

  about that show was the that you got to [TS]

  stretch stuff out that a lot of episodes [TS]

  didn't have that much take place it was [TS]

  mostly just characters talking a little [TS]

  bit doing something you know and then [TS]

  the movies had jamitol and kind of here [TS]

  gotta go there on this planet do that [TS]

  this is in danger that's this person [TS]

  this is this conspiracy and is over I'd [TS]

  love that movie though I have to say I i [TS]

  left that movie my wife and I looked at [TS]

  each other and said that is what I want [TS]

  out of a sci-fi movie I want a ride i [TS]

  want to thrill ride i want some fun and [TS]

  some scary and some action and I want to [TS]

  get out there and was like boy that was [TS]

  fun and I haven't I haven't left a movie [TS]

  with that kind of feeling I remember [TS]

  walking out of there thinking it when [TS]

  was the last time I walked out of a [TS]

  sci-fi movie if this exhilarated was it [TS]

  was it one of the Star Wars movies and [TS]

  it had been a long time since I'd yeah [TS]

  I'd experienced a movie a sci-fi movie [TS]

  that really hit that all those notes [TS]

  like how serenity did the new star trek [TS]

  was kinda like that too but I feel like [TS]

  that second that [TS]

  yeah yeah whatever later found out later [TS]

  right [TS]

  wait no you didn't travel in time and [TS]

  parallel universe where it came out [TS]

  first [TS]

  I I came unstuck in time sadly hi IM [TS]

  yeah i know you can bring it back to Los [TS]

  not even in your top two [TS]

  I was going with kurt vonnegut actually [TS]

  fill a style all right okay but ok this [TS]

  is not good what's that guy's name again [TS]

  scott scott pilgrim no hole mobility [TS]

  pilgrim vs the world he has to fight the [TS]

  nine evil truffle midori ins good times [TS]

  i just watched that movie by the way [TS]

  scott pilgrim so now I could talk about [TS]

  it if we did a podcast about various [TS]

  good idea only yeah we're supposed to do [TS]

  a podcast about that like six months ago [TS]

  man come on [TS]

  yeah something like that yeah it never [TS]

  came together though because i don't see [TS]

  movies ever [TS]

  I i don't so dr. horrible was the weird [TS]

  kind of let's do a thing during the [TS]

  writers strike that is on the internet [TS]

  and we own it basically and so it's just [TS]

  weed and his brothers and his his [TS]

  brothers fiance at the time and they got [TS]

  a great cast and on a shoestring budget [TS]

  they shot something that actually look [TS]

  pretty good and I was a musical again [TS]

  going back to the musical roots and also [TS]

  was a genre kind of peace because it's [TS]

  about sort of superheroes and as we said [TS]

  earlier kind of runs the gamut in 45 [TS]

  minutes it's essentially the length of [TS]

  its three acts but it's the length of [TS]

  like a one TV episode of comedy and [TS]

  tragedy and just heart and it's got a [TS]

  its gotta turn in the last literally two [TS]

  seconds that it just rips your heart out [TS]

  uh you know soon Neil Patrick Harris [TS]

  against the the people who don't know [TS]

  how much of it is him is just we can [TS]

  find good actors to work with and at [TS]

  this point how many good actors want to [TS]

  work with Joss Whedon but uh you know [TS]

  great role by from neil patrick harris [TS]

  and of course nathan fillion is turning [TS]

  on the smart as captain hammer he just [TS]

  manages to match people so well either [TS]

  match match actors with characters or [TS]

  characters with actors he just has this [TS]

  natural charisma that just draws people [TS]

  in and it makes really a family of [TS]

  actors and a family of characters and [TS]

  that's what I think this is shown in [TS]

  general you know but I'm dr. horrible is [TS]

  just dr horrible maybe my like it's tied [TS]

  with firefly for me as one of my [TS]

  favorite things that just weeds ever [TS]

  done because I discovered horrible quite [TS]

  by accident you know I i saw i found out [TS]

  about it when part to it erred because [TS]

  when they were first when they were [TS]

  doing it they're doing this is like a [TS]

  viral three-part thing with the like all [TS]

  right word [TS]

  release part 1 on a Monday and we're [TS]

  going to release part two on wednesday [TS]

  and part 3 on a friday and you have to [TS]

  tune in and at that point I don't think [TS]

  hulu either who hadn't yet been ordered [TS]

  just been announced and was like and [TS]

  artists they just started and I gotta [TS]

  have it on their own site to was on here [TS]

  yeah whatever it was it was on their [TS]

  site is on hulu and then they managed to [TS]

  get it on itunes as well and it's and it [TS]

  was really amazing how that kind of [TS]

  worked out because they originally just [TS]

  kind of going for broke and like you [TS]

  know we're just going to put it on [TS]

  quicktime and i followed this like once [TS]

  I got into once i watched part 2 which I [TS]

  watched first then I will back and watch [TS]

  part one and i was like oh my god this [TS]

  is amazing this is why everybody's [TS]

  talking about it and I went back in like [TS]

  obsessively research like how much has [TS]

  been made for and how they had set this [TS]

  all up and they really just kind of did [TS]

  it on a whim as just kind of a were [TS]

  bored and I don't and joss whedon's like [TS]

  I'm unencumbered by projects and his [TS]

  felicia day was a friend of his was like [TS]

  yeah I'm uncovered my projects to let's [TS]

  do something because she had I think she [TS]

  had been doing has she been doing the [TS]

  guild at that point I think she liked [TS]

  Jessica yeah something just either just [TS]

  started or just wrapped season one or [TS]

  something like that and so they just [TS]

  kind of collaborate together and what [TS]

  started this as this kind of informal [TS]

  project where they just they asked [TS]

  everybody to basically work on promise [TS]

  of future pay and and profit-sharing [TS]

  basically and they pulled in a bunch of [TS]

  favors like all the outdoor stuff and dr [TS]

  horrible is done on the Paramount lot [TS]

  because just we'd managed to convince a [TS]

  friend of his on the Paramount want to [TS]

  let them in for 10 hours so i can just [TS]

  shoot everything going to tell that to [TS]

  me is not you're like me [TS]

  yes Taylor was hit by a car right over [TS]

  there huh [TS]

  but I mean it's part of the reason why i [TS]

  think i love it so much is just the [TS]

  scrappy nature of it you know it's just [TS]

  it's something that otherwise it's very [TS]

  campy like b-movie campy but in a really [TS]

  admire away where it doesn't feel low [TS]

  budget it just feels like you know the [TS]

  like the scrappy up-and-comer who's [TS]

  trying to make his way in the world and [TS]

  you really respect it [TS]

  I don't they should use it [TS]

  like screenwriting classes because you [TS]

  said that there's so many different [TS]

  genres and that is the corny comedy the [TS]

  superhero genre this like tragedy [TS]

  there's this musical right but every one [TS]

  of those elements is better than entire [TS]

  shows that focus on that particular [TS]

  moment their musical numbers are better [TS]

  than other musical number one TV their [TS]

  comedy is better than complete comedy [TS]

  shows you don't mean and I i guess it's [TS]

  just good writing good actors but since [TS]

  it's so small and compressing absurd you [TS]

  don't have to do all this exposition [TS]

  connecting the dots and stuff because [TS]

  the story kind of is very simple [TS]

  every little one of those seems like you [TS]

  have the the comedy monologue in the [TS]

  beginning with no laugh track he knocks [TS]

  it out of the park anyone who's setting [TS]

  on how to do that [TS]

  watch that scene figure it out right the [TS]

  musical parts where you want to have a [TS]

  musical number that fits in with the [TS]

  story I mean that he's Rodgers and [TS]

  Hammerstein or whatever but watch his [TS]

  musical numbers he gets the job done [TS]

  right with actors who generally can't [TS]

  say except for patrick harris also those [TS]

  musicals but uh you know it's such a [TS]

  study and it's kind of almost showing [TS]

  off like you know every genre that you [TS]

  could possibly have a show i'm going to [TS]

  all the 45 minutes all better than you [TS]

  could possibly do the man here it is the [TS]

  whole thing still holds together and [TS]

  it's no budget and it's on the internet [TS]

  yet and it just blows you away and i [TS]

  watched it for free live on the days [TS]

  that he put it out yeah I'm here [TS]

  yeah but i'm going to give it we're just [TS]

  going to give it away i bought that I [TS]

  bought the DVD because I figured at the [TS]

  very least I liked it so much that I [TS]

  that I wanted to support them and give [TS]

  them something back for it because I [TS]

  didn't like it so I did end up buying [TS]

  the DVD when they managed to make all [TS]

  their money and quite a lot more from it [TS]

  which was fantastic just and everyone [TS]

  anyone who is a firefly nones idvd like [TS]

  every time ago or someone's house i'm [TS]

  shocked to see the dr horrible DVD on [TS]

  their shelves now and they're gonna do [TS]

  about it and 1a me if they made an enemy [TS]

  category basically collection series [TS]

  2011 a category for you to keep you out [TS]

  of competition with the worst shows that [TS]

  are real show [TS]

  well I actually was actually i don't [TS]

  think that otherwise would have been [TS]

  eligible John since it never actually [TS]

  aired on television I now understand [TS]

  like it like that the level of game is [TS]

  so high they like what this is some [TS]

  internet thing we have to [TS]

  compartmentalize it or perhaps not even [TS]

  exotic knowledge its existence you know [TS]

  I think they don't want to me seemed [TS]

  cooler by acknowledging its existence [TS]

  and and saying no you're part of our [TS]

  industry now even though we're topical [TS]

  or topical yeah [TS]

  but uh I think they are going to do [TS]

  another doctor horrible at some point [TS]

  all those pieces of work but they it [TS]

  sounds like this is their hobby [TS]

  basically on the side although the [TS]

  rumors that it might actually be a film [TS]

  that they might actually do a whole [TS]

  thing instead of kind of going back to [TS]

  the internet I i'm curious about how [TS]

  they'll end up doing it and if they do [TS]

  it as another web series or or if they [TS]

  do get more budget and do it as [TS]

  something bigger but it was you know it [TS]

  I i had no expectations for it going [TS]

  into it and I was really surprised [TS]

  although i'm gonna fire off the spoiler [TS]

  horn now there is there's that sound [TS]

  so at the end of dr horrible he kills [TS]

  penny and that was really controversial [TS]

  and I'm just kind of curious what you [TS]

  guys thought about I I'm used to just [TS]

  we've been killing people and having it [TS]

  be sad and not everything has to be feel [TS]

  good but i know that a lot of people [TS]

  were really upset was upset by that that [TS]

  that makes the show i will tell you who [TS]

  is upset that because i liked it and [TS]

  again I like Jason I'm familiar enough [TS]

  joss whedon that I kind of you know it [TS]

  was unexpected but it was not after the [TS]

  fact it was not like how could he do [TS]

  that it was like a sweeper i convince my [TS]

  mom to watch this and she loved it all [TS]

  the way up through that because I'm not [TS]

  ready for that it was not yet she'll I [TS]

  mean she loved the rest of the things [TS]

  she loved all the the comedy musical and [TS]

  I like she was very impressed with the [TS]

  writing and all of that you know and [TS]

  it's a fairly hard sell for me to tell [TS]

  my mother like watch this thing on the [TS]

  internet it's great trust me and I think [TS]

  I kind of felt like the rug pulled out [TS]

  from her at the end there because [TS]

  necessarily always likes addicts I think [TS]

  we all have mother stories and I feel [TS]

  like it's our job never to be that [TS]

  mother like for instance my mother of [TS]

  one of my favorite movies ever is a good [TS]

  fellow so my mother cannot watch it [TS]

  because of the language to playing with [TS]

  just two bed that's all she sees a movie [TS]

  all she sees a bunch of words [TS]

  Joe Pesci's brains getting splattered a [TS]

  crime now we're not a match just cannot [TS]

  a length and thickness curse too much [TS]

  it's unrealistic so your mother with its [TS]

  realistic right the mods not as our [TS]

  people there no one cares that much this [TS]

  movie's anybody now so you have a guy [TS]

  hanging in a frozen truck like a slab of [TS]

  meat that's not the problem solve a land [TS]

  never to be that person when our [TS]

  children trying to show us something [TS]

  from the hollow webs on our holo bands [TS]

  or whatever this and i look forward to [TS]

  all the web's agree yeah super great [TS]

  worst hollow show you're not playing [TS]

  implants and right car don't you know [TS]

  how to do any dad I mean there were a [TS]

  lot of talk that the psycho Joss [TS]

  Whedon's killing another woman character [TS]

  and he said misogynistic which I had to [TS]

  laugh about just witnessed a police [TS]

  sergeant person married but he does like [TS]

  tormenting his characters and and when [TS]

  you think about it from a I mean yes [TS]

  emotionally it was so it was so [TS]

  gut-wrenching because you're you know [TS]

  you're hoping for a happy ending [TS]

  right no he's gonna reveal his love for [TS]

  her and she's gonna figure it out [TS]

  and yet when you look back it's like [TS]

  well what did we just see we just saw [TS]

  the origin of dr horrible as a [TS]

  supervillain this is what happened of [TS]

  course he doesn't get the girl because [TS]

  how do you make a supervillain out of [TS]

  this guy is kind of a show of all it's [TS]

  called the league table in the beginning [TS]

  they sing to you a murderer would be [TS]

  nice you know it's not like it's not [TS]

  it's in the plot of the show it's not [TS]

  you know it's the by the way is the evil [TS]

  League of you can see the way it is the [TS]

  idea that doubles there's another league [TS]

  of evil and they're not so evil he's a [TS]

  bad horse it's a very bad horse and [TS]

  literally a horse you see how that was [TS]

  that was not a great scene where they [TS]

  show the actual horse standing like I [TS]

  don't even know how they got that on [TS]

  their budget the actual horse then [TS]

  stamping from studio [TS]

  yep did President to be perfectly honest [TS]

  I think the shocking part of that show [TS]

  is not that he kills penny it's the last [TS]

  two seconds where you get you know you [TS]

  get this big uplifted or uplifting evil [TS]

  saw where he's like now I have [TS]

  everyone's energy for now I have [TS]

  everything you know what I feel nothing [TS]

  I can go forward and I don't feel and [TS]

  then it cuts to him in a sweatshirt [TS]

  sitting in front of his camera looking [TS]

  very sad of thing and it's the most [TS]

  heart-wrenching thing it's like they're [TS]

  here you realize that oh the death has [TS]

  hit him [TS]

  yeah you can also do that as the whole [TS]

  thing was just a big you know allegory [TS]

  for he did something horrible in his [TS]

  real life has nothing to do with [TS]

  superheroes and he's reimagined in terms [TS]

  of supervillains and superheroes you [TS]

  know to me like you could do also how [TS]

  with that final scene you know I mean [TS]

  you just blew my mind John well I'm of [TS]

  course if they're going to continue the [TS]

  series with him actually super villain [TS]

  then it's harder to go with that but in [TS]

  a standalone you can appreciate it on [TS]

  that level pretty easily you know [TS]

  there's a buffy episode where she wakes [TS]

  up in a mental institution and they tell [TS]

  me that everything that she's that's the [TS]

  show is just her dream and her parents [TS]

  are still alive and are still together [TS]

  and are still happy and everybody's [TS]

  everybody's good and and that's an [TS]

  episode where in the end she insists on [TS]

  making that decision between the red [TS]

  pill or the blue pill and going back to [TS]

  the show that you could totally read it [TS]

  as being that this entire show is the [TS]

  fantasy of a crazy girl [TS]

  well of course there is a show there's [TS]

  an episode also where there [TS]

  it is quite legitimately the fantasy of [TS]

  a somewhat of a crazy guy much Jonathan [TS]

  oh yeah well that's true too so so yeah [TS]

  they so ok John I'll I'll go with that [TS]

  that's an interesting read I had never [TS]

  really read that before I just I just [TS]

  saying that's meant to be the primary [TS]

  mentor you needed that if it's a percent [TS]

  with the show if you decide to interpret [TS]

  it that way I i don't think that that [TS]

  was intentional but i do love the fact [TS]

  that yes that the message really there [TS]

  is that behind everybody who turns into [TS]

  an evil supervillain well you know if [TS]

  you apply a little bit of humanity to it [TS]

  what you get is that something you know [TS]

  something awful happened to make them [TS]

  that way [TS]

  I mean it's actually pretty good with [TS]

  those bad guys in the show we talked [TS]

  about people who are you talking about [TS]

  on a previous podcast but he kind of [TS]

  reminds me of unbreakable in that sense [TS]

  yeah a little bit of an unbreakable guy [TS]

  was kind of I don't know I feel like I [TS]

  just draws his evil characters met not [TS]

  as if they're better but getting back to [TS]

  the bounty hunter bounty hunter is not [TS]

  clearly nuts right but it is all the way [TS]

  he's like a likeable character but you [TS]

  can see that like there's something off [TS]

  about him so it feels like if you saw [TS]

  this person in real life this could be a [TS]

  kind of person who goes around hijacking [TS]

  ships and killing people and see a bad [TS]

  person he's probably just crazy and [TS]

  needs and as mentally disturbed but [TS]

  that's the type of person who would do [TS]

  this it's not somebody who was perfectly [TS]

  well-adjusted but just for some reason [TS]

  has their switch on the back on their [TS]

  backs at the evil you know well to tell [TS]

  i chalk lines and in in serenity the the [TS]

  operative in surrender grant he's not a [TS]

  he's the bad guy and he's a real badass [TS]

  he kills lots of people but he's [TS]

  actually not a bad guy he's just kind of [TS]

  doing his job he's got his own little [TS]

  moral code in his own ya know thing that [TS]

  he loved that we love to write those [TS]

  characters I mean to touch on dollhouse [TS]

  for a bit there's a lot of that going on [TS]

  in dollars we were gonna talk about my [TS]

  god i wasn't something like a Scott [TS]

  ended prematurely [TS]

  yeah i was saying that by the time I [TS]

  finished watching dr horrible and [TS]

  firefly was a hundred percent on board [TS]

  the weed and train and so when dollhouse [TS]

  came out and you know was not very good [TS]

  in various ways i just kept watching it [TS]

  was like you you have greatness in you [TS]

  this is not it [TS]

  yeah but then you get to the end of [TS]

  season one and you see a show an episode [TS]

  like epitaph one jack [TS]

  oh yeah like why wasn't the entire show [TS]

  is and what he would do that it would [TS]

  like site yet that is in there is a good [TS]

  show but this is other show around it [TS]

  that I don't like know the end there [TS]

  there isn't a good show i think my take [TS]

  on on dollhouse is that dollhouse was a [TS]

  terrible premise of the show with some [TS]

  questionable casting choices that was [TS]

  done by a lot of talented people who [TS]

  tried their best to figure out how what [TS]

  how they could make it a show and some [TS]

  of the episodes are better than others [TS]

  and it got a little bit of momentum in [TS]

  the end of the first season but in the [TS]

  end I just you know it left me cold and [TS]

  i I couldn't help watching it without [TS]

  thinking you really should be doing [TS]

  something else and although i know some [TS]

  people celebrated when it got picked up [TS]

  for that second year I I really was sad [TS]

  when I got picked up because I I thought [TS]

  that was like yet another eight months [TS]

  where joss whedon was going to be [TS]

  changed to this thing that was quite [TS]

  frankly beneath him and that he would be [TS]

  better off finding something else to do [TS]

  with his time because I just thought it [TS]

  was so like a degree of difficulty that [TS]

  would be like steve jobs and steve jobs [TS]

  12 hp like places a friend's place is a [TS]

  trainer right was like what yeah i'm [TS]

  steve jobs i can make this work and you [TS]

  like and he would try to find it went [TS]

  halfway in there would be some awesome [TS]

  HP product like yeah that's the good oh [TS]

  no its back the printers and crap right [TS]

  I that's what the house was your right [TS]

  there was there's definitely a lot of [TS]

  moments that were that made a redeeming [TS]

  I thought the end of the first season [TS]

  was good i thought starting through [TS]

  around the middle of the second season [TS]

  through the end of that season there was [TS]

  a lot of promise they picked up some [TS]

  truly fantastic talent in pretty much [TS]

  all of the secondary characters it's [TS]

  unfortunate that the main character is 1 [TS]

  i'm a great let's take a wife should do [TS]

  school who isn't a very good actress [TS]

  quite honestly it's kind of a 10 can [TS]

  have to pay 50 characters and will be [TS]

  she's a wrong person for that role [TS]

  yeah plus plus it's very hard to ever [TS]

  relate to the character because she's [TS]

  getting her stuff kind of uploaded and [TS]

  downloaded and their ways that they try [TS]

  to work around that but again it comes [TS]

  back to the fact that it's likely to [TS]

  show having all about her then you can [TS]

  about the secondary characters in the [TS]

  whole organization and the characters [TS]

  who are involved in it i think there's [TS]

  another great example of character [TS]

  progression in taking the character of [TS]

  topher who [TS]

  we started kind of an amoral jerk she [TS]

  gets the best arc in the show because by [TS]

  the end of the show he you know you [TS]

  really do get to the point again we're [TS]

  and again having be the you know [TS]

  characters getting killed off who you to [TS]

  you don't think are gonna get killed off [TS]

  and he I don't know he gets to a point [TS]

  where i'm incredibly empathetic as a [TS]

  character not to blow your mind again [TS]

  damn but there's some people who believe [TS]

  that the character of topher who of [TS]

  course puts these histories into the [TS]

  lives into the it is basically making [TS]

  characters when he loads them up with [TS]

  their personalities at that Topher with [TS]

  his wide crater ice cracking and with [TS]

  his job is Joss Whedon and it's just we [TS]

  didn't commenting on what it's like to [TS]

  be a writer and controlling these [TS]

  characters and making them do things but [TS]

  then he calls the end of the world I [TS]

  don't think josh has the same worries i [TS]

  don't know riding a bad show about robot [TS]

  prostitute she's going to end the world [TS]

  i don't know i think i think sometimes [TS]

  just Whedon has the power who sits there [TS]

  and I i do think sometimes wonders what [TS]

  am I actually making the world a better [TS]

  place and in what I'm doing my talent I [TS]

  i wouldn't be surprised if there is some [TS]

  of that in there actually I like the [TS]

  fact that you're maybe that was [TS]

  off-putting in ways that like is this [TS]

  things in it like the whole prostitution [TS]

  angle and the characters a lot of it was [TS]

  off-putting and I like the fact that the [TS]

  show was willing to bother you would [TS]

  like that wasn't a clear like all this [TS]

  latch onto here because they're all good [TS]

  and these are all bet everybody show [TS]

  about human trafficking and impact of [TS]

  the the character who you come into [TS]

  thinking as is the most sort of [TS]

  trustworthy and reliable and more [TS]

  character to bring the bad guy because [TS]

  and that's not a love like this debate [TS]

  yeah that that was a moment where I [TS]

  thought I don't know if i buy that [TS]

  did you like the big like alternate and [TS]

  what the heck was the name of that the [TS]

  alternate ending episode where they're [TS]

  in the SuperDuper future where on the [TS]

  stuff that [TS]

  stuff that [TS]

  their habit and epitaphs goes off the [TS]

  rails yeah I know that I kind of video [TS]

  that was another interesting it was it [TS]

  was a better show that would be the one [TS]

  that they actually made so what else do [TS]

  we have to say about Joss Whedon I mean [TS]

  we've kinda we kind of covered all the [TS]

  ultimate avengers the avengers yeah what [TS]

  an interesting choice i mean he made a [TS]

  run at doing wonder woman and he wrote a [TS]

  bunch of screenplays and never [TS]

  apparently the studio never wanted what [TS]

  he wanted to give them which isn't [TS]

  surprising honestly probably existed [TS]

  yeah well I mean look at his work at [TS]

  that's going to be a girl's kickass [TS]

  movie and I think that would have been a [TS]

  great movie to make and I wonder if the [TS]

  studio didn't really want that I don't [TS]

  know but but the Avengers which is [TS]

  interesting because it doesn't have very [TS]

  many women in it i think it's got [TS]

  scarlett johansson is the Black Widow [TS]

  any that's a that's a talking especially [TS]

  in a in a film that is going to be a [TS]

  large sort of ensemble piece that's [TS]

  really you know you have all these [TS]

  people who are basically expected to [TS]

  carry their own movies and then you're [TS]

  combining all of them into a movie like [TS]

  that's all he's got he's got a whole he [TS]

  he has been successful in integrating [TS]

  maybe not movies although although [TS]

  serenity does this to a certain degree [TS]

  these ensemble pieces right i mean he [TS]

  has done that in all of the shows that [TS]

  but if there's a difference between but [TS]

  look at those are normal downs right [TS]

  exactly the time talking in Tamil peace [TS]

  now it's got robert downey jr like yeah [TS]

  razones movie they're not actively yeah [TS]

  but stated he them and I called unknowns [TS]

  anything less than movie stars [TS]

  you know i would say that he writes he [TS]

  writes his ensemble pieces where [TS]

  everybody is just as important is [TS]

  everybody alright but do they do that [TS]

  the actors i think people who aren't [TS]

  like you know you do a level actors Tom [TS]

  Cruise level i carry the whole movie my [TS]

  name is on top of the Marquis I think [TS]

  they work better together because none [TS]

  of them expects to be carrying the [TS]

  movies if you put a bunch of top dogs in [TS]

  the same movie together sometimes you [TS]

  get this weird vibe you know but I would [TS]

  also argue that the top dogs in the [TS]

  Avengers are only really recent movie [TS]

  stars in their own right [TS]

  I mean you look in the last 10 years [TS]

  Robert Downey jr. has been slowly [TS]

  climbing you know to greatness [TS]

  all yeah but five I mean you know you [TS]

  have you have some of his great indie [TS]

  stuff and I mean even even like a few [TS]

  years ago he was still doing girlie [TS]

  friend [TS]

  I mean he has the voice of mr. peanut [TS]

  now yes he is he is clearly a big deal [TS]

  now but i would say that he still he's [TS]

  not i don't think he has the big head [TS]

  that somebody say like time you see them [TS]

  as mr. peanut because you controls mr. [TS]

  peanut controls the world so you're [TS]

  saying that once you become mr. peanut [TS]

  you basically get them over all rights [TS]

  to human sanity mr. body that [TS]

  yeah yeah that is you've you've hit your [TS]

  peak and and possibly tell the shortest [TS]

  know and there's nowhere to go but down [TS]

  one similar to go down when you're [TS]

  missing fina so what I'll say about the [TS]

  future of joss whedon Avengers aside and [TS]

  I think it's great that he's doing a [TS]

  feature and I know that I mean it is [TS]

  story of his career is control right i [TS]

  mean he did Buffy on TV because he [TS]

  realized that the showrunner of a TV [TS]

  series actually got to control unlike [TS]

  his work as a screenwriter and now he's [TS]

  writing and directing the avengers what [TS]

  I would make a plea for for his next for [TS]

  his next big work because this movie [TS]

  work is pretty good but it's of a [TS]

  different kind of them is TV work he's a [TS]

  good TV show runner I so i put in a plea [TS]

  come on Josh let's see a cable show [TS]

  I will you don't need to have a broad [TS]

  audience because you're not that guy and [TS]

  I think he's admitted he's not that guy [TS]

  he's a cult audience guy so go on get a [TS]

  show on FX or AMC or HBO or Showtime [TS]

  I don't really care where it is i think [TS]

  a basic cable show with 13 episodes a [TS]

  year would be fantastic [TS]

  so I hope that that's the next TV [TS]

  project we see from him because that [TS]

  could be successful and run like Buffy [TS]

  and Angel dat but like you know I a [TS]

  dozen show on FX could be a you know a [TS]

  tentpole for that kind of network [TS]

  absolutely would be fantastic and I mean [TS]

  Fox and its parent neighbor and Fox and [TS]

  its parent you know short networks have [TS]

  always been willing to kind of embrace [TS]

  crazy off-the-wall content they have [TS]

  just not been very good about keeping it [TS]

  there [TS]

  I mean you look at all of this shows [TS]

  that Fox green lights every year that [TS]

  just kinda follow you know that there [TS]

  are really and impressive scary concepts [TS]

  that just don't have the audience share [TS]

  for it right they need a million [TS]

  audience of eight million audience [TS]

  members and then they can't get it and [TS]

  then your fox network but on another [TS]

  yeah yeah exactly i hope he doesn't open [TS]

  his own material too because Avengers [TS]

  fine you know but I feel like that there [TS]

  are shackles for licenses that he [TS]

  doesn't need because I think he's proven [TS]

  that he can come up with his own IP [TS]

  that's that's just as good or better [TS]

  than any of that all like he doesn't [TS]

  need that crutch at all and everything [TS]

  else is a counterexample because i think [TS]

  the Campbell House on his own and it was [TS]

  kind of a mess you have any ties but i [TS]

  think he did that sort of like on the [TS]

  back of a napkin with a large digital [TS]

  lunch and then kind of got himself in [TS]

  over his head and refuse [TS]

  I mean there's a whole story I so my [TS]

  other point I want to make when you're [TS]

  looking at these twilight movies and all [TS]

  these other kind of vampire stuff [TS]

  together in the culture i had and that [TS]

  there's been talk of the people who [TS]

  produced the original buffy movie making [TS]

  a new Buffy movie i do think they're at [TS]

  it there's still time in the next five [TS]

  years if they if if Joss Whedon wanted [TS]

  to revisit buffy the vampire slayer with [TS]

  the actors that he had he could probably [TS]

  still do it and I wouldn't mind that [TS]

  honestly I think that if he had a story [TS]

  to tell I mean he's telling in the [TS]

  comics but you know if and and season 8 [TS]

  has been pretty I've enjoyed them [TS]

  immensely about the season at the comic [TS]

  has been pretty good i can see him going [TS]

  to a season 9 or at you know doing a [TS]

  movie or something that would be okay [TS]

  there is a season 9 come and leaves off [TS]

  actually the there's a season I'm coming [TS]

  in the comics but uh they're doing a [TS]

  different i want my share them they're [TS]

  gonna do it you have that idea they're [TS]

  doing it as a instead of doing it as one [TS]

  comic that runs over like four years [TS]

  they're doing it in a in a controlled [TS]

  bursts it's gonna be like a [TS]

  two-year-long thing and it's gonna have [TS]

  multiple comics in the story arc so it's [TS]

  going to be more like the marvel [TS]

  universe has a bunch of different comics [TS]

  is gonna be harder for me to collect is [TS]

  that what you're telling me yes [TS]

  gosh darn it yeah why not just makes me [TS]

  anyway but obviously a apropos nothing I [TS]

  was just flipping through out the [TS]

  Avengers and have a shot of joss whedon [TS]

  at comic-con this year and i think [TS]

  actually i think i could do a pretty [TS]

  good job of passing for Joffrey the [TS]

  eur/usd got a beard now he's got to have [TS]

  already cleared now the shiny head you [TS]

  know what kind of similar to the [TS]

  wikipedia page and I'm saying yeah i [TS]

  think actually like more I might use [TS]

  that somehow there some way I can [TS]

  capitalize I don't think there is no [TS]

  that's important comic-con next time [TS]

  to put on a lot of weight i think yeah [TS]

  sorry about 30 yea he yeah we just get a [TS]

  little one of those uh you know kind of [TS]

  strapon punches that's a young also [TS]

  ready i'll hit TV shows that helps too [TS]

  yeah I'm help that sounds like a lot of [TS]

  that sounds a lot like work yeah i don't [TS]

  know how i feel about that [TS]

  well then just go with the weight first [TS]

  there we go there we go i can just I can [TS]

  eat Twinkies and done the same will come [TS]

  brilliant well for a podcast that [TS]

  started late and has gone into the night [TS]

  it's like three in the morning now where [TS]

  I think that I think that went pretty [TS]

  well so I want to thank my guests who I [TS]

  who I basically told to come and then [TS]

  didn't show up so I'm glad that they [TS]

  stuck with me [TS]

  thank you for being here John siracusa [TS]

  you're very welcome ran called well [TS]

  thank you thank you and mr. ever-present [TS]

  Dan Morgan what we got another one of [TS]

  these right after this too yeah let's [TS]

  just wait it will just get right into [TS]

  that one and start talking about what's [TS]

  the subject of that one [TS]

  I don't know but whatever just don't [TS]

  tell me something to pull my string i'll [TS]

  keep going [TS]

  oh I didn't know you had the string in [TS]

  the back that explain everything that [TS]

  explains a lot if I repeat a lot of [TS]

  raising oh I repeat a lot of phrases [TS]

  goodbye everybody thanks for listening [TS]

  to the incomparable podcast I can't [TS]

  believe you made it to the end [TS]

  goodnight [TS]

  this destiny and comfortable podcast [TS]

  visit us at the incomparable dot-com [TS]

  [Music] [TS]