11: To Be Continued?

0:00:00podcast episode 11 / 2010

0:00:14this is the uncomfortable podcast I call

0:00:16this meeting of the book club to order

0:00:18it is it made to order it when i get to

0:00:22choose I didn't choose actually i think

0:00:23what books we finally decided to talk

0:00:25about this and didn't say I hate you all

0:00:27that every podcast was supposed to let

0:00:28me introduce all the people i hate today

0:00:30first and foremost the voice you just

0:00:33heard Glenn fleischmann hi Glenn

0:00:36hello there I also joining us today Dan

0:00:39Morgan who's on every podcast idea i'm

0:00:42on every podcast in the world that's

0:00:45right i don't know why but he is usually

0:00:50uninvited I really really bored clearly

0:00:52also joining us today Scott McNulty who

0:00:57will be with us for a while and then

0:00:58we'll duck out to do like exercise and

0:01:01stuff

0:01:01yes I i'm a fat man who wants to be less

0:01:04fat

0:01:05well that's your holding down the

0:01:06Zeppelin right now exactly you can be

0:01:08lighter than air and also joining us

0:01:11today for his first time on the podcast

0:01:13be gentle or or don't be gentle

0:01:16Greg moss by Regis it's really nice to

0:01:19be here

0:01:19that's right Kathie Lee will be joining

0:01:21us worked me like a ham

0:01:23haha that's not not a euphemism

0:01:27everybody workin him like a ham

0:01:30so we have three books to talk about

0:01:31today and first up is spin winner of the

0:01:35hugo award by robert charles wilson

0:01:37published in 2005 on the hugo award in

0:01:402006 it is apparently the first book

0:01:43according to wikipedia in the spin

0:01:45trilogy I've only read the first book so

0:01:47I cannot speak to the other magical

0:01:50selections in this in this a in

0:01:52astrology I believe several of you just

0:01:54finish this book I've read this ages ago

0:01:57I know you're talking about like five

0:01:59minutes ago right looks like at least I

0:02:00mean defensive we talked about in spin

0:02:02time or a regular time is right for you

0:02:04inside the envelope or outside the

0:02:06envelope and Scott you just finished it

0:02:08recently to write i finished last week

0:02:10wow I finished about two weeks ago so

0:02:13apparently had a curve my goodness this

0:02:14is like a real book club

0:02:18I i read it like two years ago but

0:02:20that's okay that was you know I feel I

0:02:23feel like I'm with it now we should

0:02:25start by asking

0:02:26didn't you read the next to is an

0:02:27indication of the books quality i bought

0:02:29a kindle and it's not available on the

0:02:31kindle and I decided I wasn't going to

0:02:33find paper and I haven't you know the

0:02:34third one is not yet i bought it right

0:02:37there that would also be that would be a

0:02:38small bottles of time and space which

0:02:41are contravene in many parts of spin so

0:02:43anyway to spin robert charles wilson the

0:02:46premise is that what would happen if the

0:02:49earth kind of got enveloped by this

0:02:51shell that turns out to be slowing its

0:02:55passage through time so time and the

0:02:57rest of the universe is patched passing

0:02:59much faster than it is on earth and

0:03:02there are some social ramifications and

0:03:05there's some character ramifications and

0:03:07then there's some interesting things

0:03:07that happen when you when they start to

0:03:09figure out that they can actually send

0:03:10stuff outside of the bubble into the

0:03:12rest of the universe so i don't know i

0:03:15don't know quite where to start uh we'll

0:03:18circle back around to this at the end

0:03:19but you know did you guys did you guys

0:03:22like it and you know what

0:03:24what did you like about it and what did

0:03:25you not about let's go with dan who read

0:03:27it the most recently by several minutes

0:03:30yeah i'm struggling to digest this

0:03:32entire book that i just finished

0:03:34um I kind of give it a solid i liked it

0:03:38you know wasn't it wasn't like what I

0:03:41didn't love it I didn't think it was

0:03:42like the best book I've read but it was

0:03:43entertaining it was interesting

0:03:45there's certainly a lot of great ideas

0:03:46in here and he really does pack them in

0:03:48um I i guess when I felt like what kind

0:03:51of the weaknesses are some of the

0:03:54characters are interesting but they're

0:03:55very hard to identify with at some

0:03:57points more deliberately than others i

0:03:59think you know especially when you talk

0:04:00about this these you could argue the

0:04:03central character if not the protagonist

0:04:04is is this guy Jason and he is terrible

0:04:08and another one yeah yeah what a

0:04:10terrible i can't you just can't believe

0:04:11anybody with the name Jason no way

0:04:13untrustworthy but he's kind of intended

0:04:16to be you know he sort of set up as a

0:04:19he's a genius you know he knows he's

0:04:22very intelligent he's been groomed from

0:04:23a young age to really change the world

0:04:27somehow how many happens to find this

0:04:30sort of you know he comes of age in this

0:04:31is perfect timing when he's actually

0:04:33able to put himself in a position where

0:04:35you can actually change the world

0:04:36arguably but he's also kind of this in

0:04:39screwed in

0:04:39screw double character who is very set

0:04:41apart from a lot of the other characters

0:04:43including the narrator who is his best

0:04:45friend and who is sort of the tempering

0:04:48influence and sometimes but I'm also

0:04:51seems to be on you know almost a more

0:04:53realistic plane but I guess I found you

0:04:56know some of the characters harder to

0:04:58identify with others the wilson a lot of

0:05:02his female characters especially are

0:05:04very hate to say not known always

0:05:07complimentary and not always as well

0:05:10drawn as i think i would like we get

0:05:13very much the idea of Jason's sister

0:05:15Diane like speed through the prison of

0:05:17prism of the protagonist who is in love

0:05:19with her

0:05:19so we get her drawn up a lot and I don't

0:05:22think that's necessarily always borne

0:05:24out by her actual portrayal is she not

0:05:26Jenny from Forrest Gump I mean kinda

0:05:29weird AC like goats on she's old

0:05:31childhood friend and she's not here for

0:05:33a lot of streets caught up in some crazy

0:05:35fundamentalist religion stuff and it's

0:05:38kind of a hippie well and MGM you know

0:05:40that's cute which I felt I I like given

0:05:43the fact that she was put on such a high

0:05:44pedestal i kind of expected more from

0:05:46her like what is he really seen her like

0:05:48you know they're there were definitely

0:05:49some sparks of earlier on I guess in the

0:05:51relationship in terms of like you know

0:05:53she set up to be kind of a parallel to

0:05:55her brother but also always like a step

0:05:58below him right and so i guess ii you

0:06:00know it's hard for me to to sort of see

0:06:02her the way that I think the protagonist

0:06:04does I've seen this problem in a couple

0:06:06of science fiction novels where there's

0:06:08a group of characters who started as

0:06:10children and their super kids

0:06:12I mean you know they're going to span

0:06:13the entire course of the novel and

0:06:15they're going to change the world and so

0:06:16they don't they seem remote from the

0:06:18moment they're introduced yeah like hard

0:06:21identified because I mean I mean I don't

0:06:22you guys I mean I wasn't super good

0:06:24briefly but yes I guess it's a little

0:06:27easier to and you're still wear the Cape

0:06:29there is that what they said it does

0:06:30have a little bit of the width of Endor

0:06:32to him right

0:06:33yes exactly that's a great compares true

0:06:34both characters jerks haha look for the

0:06:39radar good arguably right like third

0:06:41hurt so the rest of humanity doesn't

0:06:43have to live like jerks and enter

0:06:46doesn't like died in the corner with

0:06:47crystals growing out of his eyes now

0:06:49right but where's the spoiler warning

0:06:51always people who

0:06:53hey sorry we've already fired the

0:06:55spoiler horn always have to remember to

0:06:57put in virtual i only read the first of

0:06:59the under books to read it didn't stop

0:07:03there

0:07:03this is part of our ongoing the ongoing

0:07:05incomparable theme of only read the

0:07:08first book in any cereal 24 hours

0:07:10yeah is there any yet tell me about a

0:07:12second dune book how'd that work out

0:07:14no yeah so Scott know what did you think

0:07:18I enjoyed the book a lot i did cut i

0:07:23agree with Dan most of the characters

0:07:24are not likeable and I kind of found

0:07:26them it was the same Tyler time like the

0:07:29the protagonist of the narrator is

0:07:32either well he's the we see the story

0:07:34from his point of view and he kind of

0:07:36ideal hehe is like a farming puppy to

0:07:40this family of people who do not treat

0:07:42him all that well but he just keeps

0:07:44going back to them right uh which I kind

0:07:47of annoyed me throughout the book

0:07:48because you know he's he's kind of the

0:07:50most relatable of the characters that

0:07:52are all unrelatable so you kind of feel

0:07:55for him but then you think why do you

0:07:57keep going back to these situations with

0:07:58these people don't seem to care about

0:08:00you and he's kinda cold to write like

0:08:02they make a point of that a few

0:08:04different places in the book of him

0:08:05being a little bit removed from the

0:08:07world right when he starts going out

0:08:10with that woman who is and his coldness

0:08:12it is justified because it turns out

0:08:15that woman is a secret double agent

0:08:18yeah another one of the female

0:08:20characters whose not drawn exceedingly

0:08:22complement really it doesn't it doesn't

0:08:23come off well we all know women are just

0:08:26about sex religion and betrayal

0:08:28oh don't forget out we really don't know

0:08:31haha drunk is drunk stupid and what else

0:08:36is you've got to have that jaded I mean

0:08:38I like this book but he did the mom of

0:08:41the of the up Jason and Diane is a she's

0:08:45like you're jaded Washington alcoholic

0:08:48housewife right with a secret deep

0:08:51secret that can only be revealed 5%

0:08:53before the end of the book

0:08:54yes exactly yeah if she gets a

0:08:57Redemption a little bit of the air but

0:08:59especially a central casting sort of the

0:09:02others

0:09:02is one positive female characters

0:09:04malaysia right here malaysia and

0:09:05indianola yes although you know that the

0:09:07Malaysian doctor and she is awesome

0:09:09she's well-drawn she's fasting this is

0:09:12my problem with the book is that I'm

0:09:13much more interested in the secondary

0:09:15characters then the main characters

0:09:16there's an incredibly strong plot and

0:09:19some really neat science like some

0:09:21really neat ways of like where you're

0:09:23starting to sound exactly the envelopes

0:09:25about for the first time for the book

0:09:26then once all that's known i'm like well

0:09:28I really kind of like the Martian or I

0:09:31like you know that the double-crossing

0:09:33betray Roman like she's sort of

0:09:35interesting or the fundamentalist guy

0:09:37who died in Mary's like he's passing and

0:09:40bizarre like all those people are drawn

0:09:41and sketches much more richly if not

0:09:44realistically than the primary

0:09:46characters yeah i mean speaking I mean

0:09:48speaking from a writer Lee perspective

0:09:49and that's easier and a lot of ways

0:09:51right because when you have a character

0:09:52who is such a major character they have

0:09:54to be so fleshed out you know just in

0:09:57terms of their exposure in the book and

0:09:59have to be so developed and so

0:10:00three-dimensional to get you to really

0:10:01be inside their head that it's very

0:10:04tough because you can really see it in a

0:10:05very close detail as opposed to the

0:10:08sketches that you get for those

0:10:09secondary characters which are often

0:10:10enough to get you let your imagination

0:10:13soar to fill in the rest of the details

0:10:15you don't necessarily have to go into

0:10:16their home life and like you know they

0:10:17had a terrible childhood and all this

0:10:19stuff you can sort of get an idea from

0:10:20them from just a brief you throwaway

0:10:23lines and I i agree i think Wilson does

0:10:24vary a great job with a lot of those

0:10:26secondary characters so you know this

0:10:28book does have this interesting

0:10:29back-and-forth device where you are

0:10:33the infield essentially billions of

0:10:34years in the future with the same

0:10:36characters that we we see in the past

0:10:39when their kids and it goes back and

0:10:41forth and to glens point it is

0:10:43interesting that the the stuff that set

0:10:45in the future feels very different some

0:10:48of the characters they're very

0:10:49interesting they're really on the run in

0:10:51malaysia trying to get a boat to escape

0:10:54and them and tyler is really sick and we

0:10:57don't really know why he's sick at first

0:11:00and we discovered that very late and

0:11:04I'll i really enjoy that time frame a

0:11:05lot although it does have the flaw of

0:11:08being a part of the story that doesn't

0:11:09really have an ending right well I mean

0:11:12the structure of the book if you ask me

0:11:14is

0:11:16kind of i'm guessing it's deliver in

0:11:18this sense that it's kind of an arch

0:11:20right because both of the things start

0:11:23you start the beginning and then at the

0:11:24end the two narratives meet yes and so

0:11:28and of course you know there is an arch

0:11:30in the book a giant arch a giant art

0:11:32which is symbolic so I think I mean I i

0:11:34would not be surprised to find that the

0:11:36structure of the narrative was created

0:11:37to sort of have a have a resonance with

0:11:39that I'm like that whole development who

0:11:44was disappointed by the ending

0:11:45everyone everyone everyone follows its

0:11:49already just what disappointed you about

0:11:50it i want to do is I was fascinated by

0:11:52the idea of the bubble and the physics

0:11:54that went into it and how society

0:11:56reacted to it and like there were so

0:11:57many possibilities once they establish

0:11:59that it happened and then as they

0:12:01started resolving those possibilities at

0:12:04as the number of things that it could be

0:12:06collapsed down into specifics they it

0:12:09was all really well done but you were

0:12:10just kind of left with oh okay I'll buy

0:12:13that and the Martian was interesting and

0:12:15okay it was fun to go and terraform mars

0:12:17in the next couple of weeks and but it

0:12:19just it didn't seem to add up to the

0:12:22potential that the bubble had at the

0:12:24beginning of the book in which turns out

0:12:25to be

0:12:26it's a universal literally universal

0:12:28fidonet wow you want something that is

0:12:33over haha haha no it's not it's my new

0:12:37machines on going over all the gallery

0:12:39forward packet network and they've

0:12:41decided I mean the premise again spoiler

0:12:43horn long ago was fired

0:12:45the premise is that that uh he's looking

0:12:48for work now the that the that this

0:12:52yes thank you and I have I'm sorry

0:12:55the premise here is that they're they're

0:12:57wrapping intelligent races in this spin

0:13:00shell so that they can prepare the

0:13:04galaxy of the universe for them in some

0:13:07way but it's going to take them awhile

0:13:09so basically the the robot say okay

0:13:11we're going to slow you down for a few

0:13:13billion years while we do other stuff

0:13:16and then we'll take you back out and

0:13:18then party

0:13:20it's kind of a pre singularity novel

0:13:23right like you know your did the book

0:13:26leaves off at the point at which are

0:13:27sort of human humanities enter

0:13:29what ya popularly called the singularity

0:13:31and that's why the ending didn't bother

0:13:33me because I felt like you know it is an

0:13:36ending to say and he you know Tyler sort

0:13:38of makes his transition into this fourth

0:13:40stage of life and you know he and Diane

0:13:44go through the whatever-it-is the arch

0:13:47to this new world and and humanity makes

0:13:50the transition to yeah it's definitely

0:13:52an ending but it's still kind of a

0:13:53disappointing ending given the

0:13:54possibilities that there were at the

0:13:56beginning of the book a quarter of the

0:13:57way through the way in whatever that's

0:13:59always going to be the case though I

0:14:00mean like you know when you have so many

0:14:02ideas so many possibilities and as those

0:14:04get diminished I think oftentimes

0:14:06there's there is there is a big

0:14:07potential for disappointment there if I

0:14:10I just thought it felt it's not like

0:14:12we're going to hang out yeah like it can

0:14:14be you didn't bring a book it one day I

0:14:17just it's like to get towards the data

0:14:19moment it's like everything was

0:14:21interesting that the book starts to

0:14:22drain out the Martians killed Mars

0:14:25becomes more ordinary you get this sort

0:14:27of potboiler thing like why they're on

0:14:29the run seems really interesting until

0:14:31you discover that for arbitrary reasons

0:14:33the government is just killing all the

0:14:34people who have gone through this

0:14:36transformation you're like well what

0:14:38doesn't make sense when they kill him

0:14:39round them up using for their own

0:14:40purposes exist you know autopsy then

0:14:43whatever but the like they're killing

0:14:44them because they're something like what

0:14:46i don't get it i mean maybe let's get a

0:14:48little futurist at the end they sort of

0:14:50like dumped a whole bunch of info on

0:14:51your like this is happening in this

0:14:52tempted to do that little thai where

0:14:54they get the two narratives time

0:14:56together

0:14:56there's a lot of a lot of that it

0:14:59reminded me a little bit of Darwin's

0:15:00radio and the sequel to that by Greg

0:15:02bear which it's the same sort of thing

0:15:03which is throughout the book the

0:15:05government is sort of this and maybe I

0:15:07don't know maybe there's yeah some

0:15:08politics involved here but the

0:15:09government does lots of things and it's

0:15:13sort of a shadowy conspiracy or there

0:15:15they do it out of fear or their Craven

0:15:16politicians and you have a lot of the

0:15:18story that sort of being driven by kind

0:15:22of stupid government or politics and you

0:15:26know maybe that's realism but I i almost

0:15:29want a little more escapism I guess from

0:15:33a sci-fi novel and and 442 just come

0:15:36down to the fact that while they're a

0:15:37bunch of jerks in the government who are

0:15:39going to want to suppress this or use it

0:15:41for their own purposes but

0:15:42I'm not even doing that they just want

0:15:44to arbitrarily hunt the heroes for nope

0:15:46yeah because that's because if it's

0:15:48required for the end of the book

0:15:50well Darwin radio is kinda or the sequel

0:15:52to it is it's kinda like that to which

0:15:53meant them all down at once it's not

0:15:56good but I kind of like the other

0:15:58paranoia aspect in the beginning when

0:15:59everybody talks about being paranoid and

0:16:01they're like well I mean we kind of got

0:16:02a good reason to be paranoid right like

0:16:04some unknown force has totally wrapped

0:16:06our world and his bubble lookin is

0:16:07totally doing something to us that we

0:16:09don't really understand so you know

0:16:10paranoia seems to make it look I don't

0:16:12talk about borrowing because i know i

0:16:14did like the book until the ending I

0:16:16thought actually was very strong

0:16:17interesting and really unique voice and

0:16:19I was really compelled to get through it

0:16:21but like thinking about it now since

0:16:23I've got the perspective of two weeks to

0:16:25write a lot about it I feel like every

0:16:28almost everything in the book comes from

0:16:29somewhere else like it really starts to

0:16:31feel like a pastiche within the drawing

0:16:33main characters like you know i was just

0:16:35looking up i remember the Commonwealth

0:16:36Saget and avoid trilogy Peter F Hamilton

0:16:38series that are going on where it's you

0:16:41know portals between worlds in a certain

0:16:44kind of sophisticated Society out there

0:16:46hyperion which were talking about with

0:16:48portals between worlds that's kind of a

0:16:49common but it's still this arch thing

0:16:51once you walk back and forth between

0:16:52different places the Ringworld anybody

0:16:55think about Ringworld they talked about

0:16:56the fourth age business

0:16:58the Martians life-extending and whatever

0:17:00these people become protectors you know

0:17:03they have slightly different physical

0:17:04attributes their attitudes are changing

0:17:06their more protective when he stranger

0:17:08in a strange land

0:17:10yeah yeah this doesn't right Martian

0:17:12comes through which you can understand

0:17:13the echoes of stranger in a strange land

0:17:15like that's you know very well and it

0:17:16gets and get out to which is kind of a

0:17:18nice nice moment where the Martian wants

0:17:20to read all the Martian sci-fi yeah but

0:17:23it's in there is i mean there's more to

0:17:25but I I cus i wasn't it was all recycled

0:17:27or purposely borrowed but at the end as

0:17:29like that you know this is this is like

0:17:3110 or 15 different you know hunks of

0:17:34different books are you know even the

0:17:35the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars series

0:17:38where it's like we're going to terraform

0:17:40it's like let's take all of that and put

0:17:41in 25 pages

0:17:43we're gonna send these seed ships off

0:17:45and then if everything goes well they'll

0:17:46be settlers there who advanced

0:17:48definitely another help i have to say

0:17:50that there are two great ideas in this

0:17:51book and one of them is what would

0:17:52happen to society if if you know the

0:17:54Stars went out and there

0:17:55is perhaps a suggestion that that this

0:17:58generation on the planet would be the

0:18:00last because then the Sun will swell and

0:18:01that will be the end you get an

0:18:02eschatological been to ya and then the

0:18:05the other nice word and the other big

0:18:07idea here is this time bubble and

0:18:09ramifications of sending people through

0:18:10it and there's a really nice moment that

0:18:12has stuck with me in the last couple

0:18:14years since i read it which is that

0:18:15there's a slight launch malfunction in

0:18:17one of the ships that's going to Mars

0:18:18and it launches like 15 seconds too late

0:18:22which means that because of the speed of

0:18:25the time bubble that one ship is going

0:18:28to be like 10,000 years behind everyone

0:18:31else

0:18:32by the time it gets to Mars and then

0:18:34theory the civilization there will have

0:18:35completely forgotten about earth until

0:18:38these guys drop out of the world even

0:18:40though they left at the same time and

0:18:42the whole kind of deep time what it

0:18:43means to play off of tens of hundreds of

0:18:47thousands or millions of years and how

0:18:48quickly it happens to the people who are

0:18:50in the bubble

0:18:51I mean what a great idea so it's two

0:18:53great ideas and ya novel can probably

0:18:55suit subsist on one and he has to and

0:18:58what like glitter and glam was saying

0:18:59about like this being kind of a pastiche

0:19:01I mean I think that's you know what you

0:19:03say that and I think well that's a great

0:19:04premise for a book right there like you

0:19:06know from the perspective of the

0:19:07Martians who have like going along with

0:19:09their ordinary little life in a rocket

0:19:10drops out of this guy hey remember us

0:19:12and but I think at the same time as part

0:19:15of the galaxy book for yeah I i argue

0:19:18that they know every good for many good

0:19:21science fiction novels and novels and

0:19:23arts works in general all build on these

0:19:25things you know borrowed ideas from from

0:19:27what's gone before and I think you know

0:19:28and clearly in this case a lot of it is

0:19:30Maj you know by the by the you know the

0:19:33vocal call outs two things like Ray

0:19:35Bradbury and and Robert Heinlein and all

0:19:37that stuff so you know that's okay it's

0:19:40okay Scott do you think it's okay i do

0:19:42think it's okay and when i was reading

0:19:44the the book spin the scene where

0:19:48they're sitting on the lawn and the

0:19:49stars disappear reminded me very much of

0:19:52aiesec asthma short story nightfall

0:19:55anyone yeah really yeah

0:19:57yes which is a fantastic story if you

0:19:59haven't read it you should stop

0:20:01listening to this and read it right now

0:20:02yes should go back to your childhood and

0:20:04read it and then come back to exactly so

0:20:07the premises that this planet has sick

0:20:08sons and it's never experienced full

0:20:11darkness and through a confluence of

0:20:13things it's going to go through full

0:20:15darkness and what's gonna happen so you

0:20:16don't know what happens at the ended the

0:20:18darkness comes and he leaves it up to

0:20:20you

0:20:20although i think that they wrote a novel

0:20:22version as well that's yes robert

0:20:25silverberg maybe I don't but I very very

0:20:27doll

0:20:28well there goes the movie to the movie

0:20:32was also dull respectfully so that was

0:20:35another prestigious came through my mind

0:20:37and I thought I agree with Jason I think

0:20:39that the the two great ideas of the book

0:20:41kind of make up for the lackluster

0:20:44characters and the kind of disappointing

0:20:46ending although i haven't read the

0:20:48second book so I don't know how much

0:20:50more disappointing it can be you

0:20:52mentioned a few people mention the

0:20:53Martian I think the Martians a a really

0:20:56cool character this idea that we leave

0:20:57we let me fire off these rockets and

0:20:59then like a couple days later a guy

0:21:01comes back is the result of this whole

0:21:02civilization that's more advanced than

0:21:04hairs that is the result of those

0:21:06Rockets being fired off and he's human

0:21:08but he's been on Mars for so long that

0:21:10he's a he's essentially an alien he's

0:21:13looking at us with a with some sort of

0:21:16amusement and detachment which I thought

0:21:18was a great bet you know the great

0:21:20history of science fiction that he makes

0:21:22sure and notes that he's infertile even

0:21:23though no sex occurs between him and

0:21:25other people huh

0:21:27but it is noted because we need to have

0:21:28you know that's be set up for future

0:21:29books that the the two great ideas in

0:21:32this book and I think you're right there

0:21:33are two great is the problem with the

0:21:35ending is that neither of them time to

0:21:36the ending they're both concluded by the

0:21:38end of the book you might as well have

0:21:39just had this arch appear by magic for

0:21:41all the impact that the two great ideas

0:21:43are born out of here

0:21:44I mean you could have just had it be

0:21:46other than having a MacGuffin where they

0:21:48have to get somewhere in in the indian

0:21:50ocean you know there's no reason for it

0:21:52at all it could be equal that's why it's

0:21:54there has been goes right the spin goes

0:21:55away and that's it and now you're right

0:21:58now the universe is ready for you

0:21:59well crap what happens next right but

0:22:01that isn't the whole function of the

0:22:03spin that they put your planet in the

0:22:05spin and then they you get to a certain

0:22:07point they build these arches for you so

0:22:09that you can expand your civilization

0:22:11because one yeah its resources won't

0:22:13support you

0:22:14I think that's the idea but the spoon is

0:22:16magic and so the arch could be magic it

0:22:17could have just appeared

0:22:19there's no one would argue there's

0:22:21there's no reason

0:22:22and for the spin except as a great idea

0:22:24and by the conclusion of the book it

0:22:26goes away the book would have been much

0:22:28shorter if our kitchen yeah yeah i think

0:22:32that is a disappointing that

0:22:34interleaving plot would have been boring

0:22:35if they were just pretty much waiting

0:22:36around to catch a bus against your new

0:22:40planet this way

0:22:41number 18 in local though it will take

0:22:43several chapters they could call it roll

0:22:45will be a picaresque story if i recall

0:22:48right

0:22:49Wow all the words today this is this is

0:22:53a no your words i know you guys can read

0:22:56stop with the crazy words Scott we don't

0:22:59have you from it much longer do you have

0:23:00anything more you'd like to share about

0:23:01about spin

0:23:03oh uh try to think I think we've covered

0:23:06a life of knows everybody knows uplands

0:23:09uplands there's another aerostats though

0:23:12they're not Zeppelin's but the stuff

0:23:13that's floating the apps and low

0:23:14altitudes a whole region area of low of

0:23:16high-altitude balloon technology yeah

0:23:18because satellites can't exist so that

0:23:20sort of Zeppelin ask yes and I do love

0:23:23the fact that so at some point these

0:23:24giant cube devices appear above the

0:23:28poles of the planet hiring in space just

0:23:30like bricks don't exactly know

0:23:32everyone's freaked out by them and the

0:23:34Chinese decide well why don't we shoot

0:23:36some nuclear weapons and see what

0:23:38happens which I thought sounds like

0:23:41something the Chinese government would

0:23:42do ya sites to that they actually there

0:23:46has been a bit i think that has one of

0:23:48the best images of the book in that the

0:23:49when the new kits the the qubit it makes

0:23:53the sphere transparent for a while and

0:23:55they can see the stars wheeling past it

0:23:58at the rate of hundreds of thousands of

0:24:00years and that's when everybody freaks

0:24:02out right

0:24:03I say oh god what's happening and then

0:24:05they know that time is moving

0:24:06differently although they get the hint

0:24:08from e-rock with us and there were the

0:24:10Soviet yeah this with the Russian the

0:24:12astronauts entrants who were up there

0:24:14for several weeks and then they come

0:24:16down and it was like no time had passed

0:24:17and it was like you're crazy Russia's

0:24:20that's right Luke well I guess two of

0:24:22them died and one survives using the

0:24:24hospital and it's kind of a throwaway

0:24:26think I you know I this is not true but

0:24:29but i'll just say that when I'm reading

0:24:31it I I just written a novel for the

0:24:34first time

0:24:35and i read this book and I thought you

0:24:36know anybody can write a hugo winner of

0:24:40this is hugo winner and i don't mean

0:24:41that in a mean way because the ideas are

0:24:43great but the characters that's kind of

0:24:45mean it and the character yeah okay it's

0:24:47kind of mean the characters the

0:24:48character interaction

0:24:49I you know it didn't didn't seem special

0:24:53it-it-it this is a book that really gets

0:24:56carried i think by those big ideas and

0:24:59and I can see why you'd be disappointed

0:25:01at the end because it's true they think

0:25:02ideas are sort of played out at the end

0:25:04and then it sort of teasing you toward

0:25:07whatever the next thing in the series is

0:25:09going to be set in the universe but it's

0:25:11not a continuation of a previous story

0:25:14because that story is over

0:25:15come follow the characters you don't

0:25:17care about what and you know the Hugo's

0:25:20I don't think they base many of the

0:25:22Hugo's on actual writing frankly not

0:25:25there are well-written Hugo or award

0:25:28winners but one this and this isn't

0:25:30particularly poorly written either i

0:25:31mean you know it's got he can turn a

0:25:33phrase

0:25:34I mean sure it's a poorly written I just

0:25:36saying that it did it didn't strike me a

0:25:37lot of these a lot of especially the

0:25:39hugo books but books in general reading

0:25:41I don't think dang you know this person

0:25:42is a is really talented and and you know

0:25:44I don't know if I could ever hope to

0:25:45write something like that where span was

0:25:47like I know how this book it seemed to

0:25:49me like I understood how it was put

0:25:50together the structure seems very

0:25:51straightforward the character

0:25:52interaction seemed really

0:25:53straightforward i could see i mean i

0:25:56could sort of see how it was assembled

0:25:57and and that was kind of interesting

0:25:59that that do this is a UH award-winning

0:26:02novel and yet it didn't it didn't seem

0:26:04like magic right i mean the balls and

0:26:06like maybe you're standing you're

0:26:08standing will sort of next to a stage

0:26:09for a magic show and you can sign it

0:26:11kind of see what's going on behind the

0:26:12scenes but it still makes you appreciate

0:26:13the another craft that's willing

0:26:15everybody else and it's the penn and

0:26:18teller of Hugo winners it has a few

0:26:20things in common with this terms of hard

0:26:21science we should talk about these this

0:26:23pair it actually violates the law of the

0:26:25second book is always horrible the

0:26:28forges got forge of God anvil of stars

0:26:30by Greg bear so 20 was a 20-plus year

0:26:33old set of books and the second book

0:26:35involves I mean it's this thing where

0:26:37it's your first parent / scenario in the

0:26:39second book huge amounts of like physics

0:26:42and science extremely well-written

0:26:44compelling characters

0:26:46and it has i think there's a similar i

0:26:48was a bit of a similar feel like there's

0:26:50all but hey even like a more more

0:26:53happening service of the plot but anyway

0:26:55I think it might be it could be fun to

0:26:57talk about those especially relation to

0:26:58the issue of like good writing strong

0:27:00plot the first the two books a hugo

0:27:02winner right name happened I don't know

0:27:07so I i looked up what the other ebooks

0:27:09that spin was up against in the hugo the

0:27:112006 Hugo's just because I was curious

0:27:13so its up against learning the world by

0:27:16chemical McLeod's which I can never just

0:27:18loud cloud whatever he's good writer i

0:27:21haven't read learning the world up a

0:27:22feast for crows by george RR martin ah

0:27:25but accelerometer co-vice charles stross

0:27:28oh and old man's war by well London is

0:27:34always better i would prefer i like

0:27:36salty old man's war right now is better

0:27:38book event where is good book but i

0:27:41think that i think that the Hugo's often

0:27:44you come up with the most original idea

0:27:45and you when Hugo and i have to say that

0:27:48the the time shifting between the the

0:27:50spin membrane and the rest of the

0:27:52universe in the whole colonizing Mars

0:27:54thing is a fantastic idea

0:27:57I agree I agree any ideas personal line

0:28:01right decor

0:28:03that's what I wanted at two ideas that

0:28:04the other books only had one that's

0:28:06right account for the heroes

0:28:12so next up on the agenda is yet another

0:28:18hugo winner where what we're doing cutie

0:28:20winners today

0:28:22Hyperion by Dan Simmons which was

0:28:27released in 1989 won the hugo in 1990

0:28:30and uh i really i really like this i

0:28:36really like this book so is there

0:28:38anybody who doesn't love Hyperion except

0:28:40for the last spoiler horn

0:28:46two words up I we were the last two

0:28:52organizations did that they don't there

0:28:54are more of them haha yeah i got my

0:28:57opinion is like I just remember this

0:28:59thing we're talking about this an email

0:29:00it's that the stories the story about

0:29:02the million monkeys where this rich man

0:29:05develops a computer system this is from

0:29:07back in the fifties that will create you

0:29:09know every piece of literature and it

0:29:11produces this you know randomly and it's

0:29:14sort stuff out it produces the greatest

0:29:15story ever written except it's missing

0:29:17the last chapter and he tries to hire a

0:29:19writer friend of his to to finish it and

0:29:22I was like that is what I feel about

0:29:23with Hyperion is like the one of the

0:29:25finest most beautiful science-fiction

0:29:27novels that ever read I mean doing is

0:29:29terrific

0:29:30hyperion i think is gorgeous sort of

0:29:33like the sparrow

0:29:34oh yes which is its image again don't

0:29:37read number two in the sparrow I've read

0:29:39that is horrible but the Hyperion is a

0:29:42such a beautiful lyrical book and he

0:29:44tells so many different stories each of

0:29:46them as its own voice and tone your

0:29:48thinking who is this guy where did he

0:29:50come from how do you create all of these

0:29:52universes this you know all the

0:29:53different planets interactions this it's

0:29:56as if he is living in a parallel

0:29:57universe it so beautifully described and

0:30:00then what came after is so hideous

0:30:03there's no i don't i don't agree with

0:30:05that now but let's let's start at the

0:30:06beginning here Hyperion is structured in

0:30:09a way where there's a framing story

0:30:11which is these pilgrims going to the

0:30:12time tombs on the planet of Hyperion and

0:30:15then in between they are telling their

0:30:16individual tails so i guess you could

0:30:19liken it to something like lost its

0:30:20really much more like like The

0:30:23Canterbury Tales where you've got the

0:30:25individual tales of the pilgrims on

0:30:26their way that's sort of that the

0:30:28concept really and it's a and a problem

0:30:33i think from the perspective of the

0:30:35ending is that this book is about the

0:30:39stories told by the people on their

0:30:40journey to the time tombs and then they

0:30:43get there and that's the end right

0:30:44because that's not what this book is

0:30:46about it's about it is in a way about

0:30:48the setup but it's also about the that

0:30:50you know learning who these people are

0:30:52on this journey and as that it is cut it

0:30:55is brilliant and it is brilliantly

0:30:56written it's not just a bunch of good

0:30:58ideas in this book is over

0:30:59going with good ideas but it's really s

0:31:02Simmons is such a great writer and I'd

0:31:03actually read some others of his stuff

0:31:05before i read this but it's it's just so

0:31:08wonderfully written in so many great

0:31:09ideas but the ending has the exact

0:31:11opposite problem of spin is rather than

0:31:13being wound down and disinterested in

0:31:16the character huh

0:31:17you are incredibly wound up really

0:31:19interested in the characters and then it

0:31:21ends there's nowhere to go it's in rate

0:31:24I wanted to throw the book across the

0:31:25room I kept saying he can't resolve this

0:31:27in the next three pages he can't resolve

0:31:28that the next two pages he didn't

0:31:30resolve it the following the Aryan is

0:31:32how it was resolved i am actually angry

0:31:35thinking about it it was a beautiful

0:31:36book and I loved reading it and just

0:31:38from the very beginning just the number

0:31:41and amount of ideas the pre story the

0:31:44first one that gets told is riveting and

0:31:46all the way through and then you get to

0:31:48the end and it you're you're suddenly

0:31:49wily coyote hanging over the cliff with

0:31:51a little yipeeeeee sign nowhere to go

0:31:54but down

0:31:56well or or you can read the sequel which

0:31:59glenwood tell you this is a book you

0:32:01have to stand alone object that should

0:32:03be next should have you had a new law

0:32:05that assessment Simmons does this too

0:32:07because i read a book of his called

0:32:08ileum and yeah i think that I got to the

0:32:10end it turned out it was two books it

0:32:12was one book split into two you get to

0:32:14the end of ilium and it's like it's like

0:32:16you're not even at the anti-venom all

0:32:18you're like you're like and the battle

0:32:20begun

0:32:21we-well wait what the yeah and I i gotta

0:32:23say i have not read anything by him

0:32:26sense because i was so turned off by

0:32:28that approach and yet i did read the

0:32:30Hyperion Books you go into lord of the

0:32:31rings and you know what you're getting

0:32:33into

0:32:34yeah I think I think I knew that

0:32:36Hyperion was a to was a to at the time

0:32:38to book series and I was gonna probably

0:32:41have to read the second i went i wasn't

0:32:43i wanted to the i went to the broke

0:32:44cycle knowing what I was getting into

0:32:46and that I say you know a years-long

0:32:47investment in time I i read Lord of the

0:32:50Rings and I don't know what happens

0:32:51after photo gets the ring it all turns

0:32:53out well though right yeah it's

0:32:55everybody's happy like i was wearing

0:32:57tonight

0:32:57rivendell and then wait a minute photo

0:32:59gets the ring woods boiler horn

0:33:02yeah well I think I mean I PS contains

0:33:05spoilers Lord of the Rings it

0:33:09Arthur bruised his jaw so Simmons you

0:33:12know it is this it's the far future and

0:33:14they're they're always throw in ideas

0:33:15like the all thing which is this like a

0:33:18collaboration of mines and of artificial

0:33:20intelligences and and they've got the

0:33:22farcaster portals which let you step

0:33:24through from one place to another which

0:33:26leads to the natural naturally the

0:33:29super-rich would have a have houses

0:33:31where each room was on a different

0:33:33planet that is far Kelly awesome that

0:33:36there would be a river that runs across

0:33:38multiple planets and through portals and

0:33:41we'll take boats down the river how

0:33:43crazy is that you have to say like one

0:33:45of Simmons is great abilities like he

0:33:47can be incredibly self-indulgent writer

0:33:49and some of his writing I cannot stand

0:33:50is soaked lying and do that but like the

0:33:53best of it is he has you know I don't

0:33:56actually know exactly as background but

0:33:59he must have been a classicist or he's

0:34:00read everything written before you know

0:34:03the year 500 CEO because his command of

0:34:07the past is so extraordinary and he can

0:34:09transmute that into both the characters

0:34:11within the novel being aware of the fact

0:34:13that the stuff they're living through is

0:34:15an allusion to the past they create the

0:34:16river toughest because they call it at

0:34:18this not because they forgot what it

0:34:20means will because that's what they

0:34:21remember but you still get that ringing

0:34:23of like you know Plato in there as well

0:34:25I felt like Hyperion was like a at the

0:34:28final exam for a liberal arts education

0:34:30it every once in while you say hey I

0:34:33know what that means i get that reaction

0:34:34when i was when i was in school i was

0:34:36like my second year of college some pro

0:34:39hipster thuy band came out with an album

0:34:41called cloud cuckoo-land and I got the

0:34:44reference to Aristophanes the birds and

0:34:46I felt like my entire education had been

0:34:48justified at that point because I got a

0:34:50pop culture reference that eluded to

0:34:52classical education from some band but

0:34:55never sides in the where they know file

0:34:56yeah where are they now file and that's

0:34:58that's how I felt really high period may

0:34:59have gotten one in ten references but I

0:35:01felt incredibly smug everyday it's john

0:35:03keats he becomes a major character in

0:35:07the sequel by the way John Key is a

0:35:09pretty major character in this one too

0:35:10well I suppose he is he's like the

0:35:12viewpoint characters sequel which is

0:35:14strange but disciple and then in the

0:35:17Shrike the Shrike is probably like the

0:35:20tree of pain and the

0:35:21it was around and the Shrike I mean

0:35:24again with the eye again with the ideas

0:35:26so not only is Hyperion really a set of

0:35:28really strong novellas I mean they're

0:35:30they're more than short stories so it's

0:35:32like a series of novellas with an

0:35:34incredibly strong backbone but you also

0:35:36have this idea all the ideas and the

0:35:37Shrike is I think of across all four

0:35:41books even though i really hated them as

0:35:43in crippling the series further and

0:35:45further its form looks yeah they're not

0:35:47to drink a lot of Hyperion Endymion and

0:35:49rise i'm not going to read any of them

0:35:51out of spite of you I well actually I

0:35:53think you might like the fall of

0:35:54hyperion I liked it and it's guys have

0:35:56an ending it is not horrible the fall of

0:35:58Hyperion is fine but it's Endymion and

0:36:00rise and Damien feel like feeble-minded

0:36:02sequels written by someone else

0:36:05compared to the narrative richness of

0:36:06the first book but you're right a second

0:36:08those six not the six essentially

0:36:10novellas the six tails of the six

0:36:11characters in that in the book including

0:36:14one that we actually i had already read

0:36:15and what was an award-winning novell I

0:36:17believe all I free remembering serie

0:36:19great great stuff and then and then

0:36:24you've got this journey to the time

0:36:26tombs and the Shrike and a strike is

0:36:27this mythical but not mythical character

0:36:30who appears and and kills you except

0:36:33when he doesn't and the time tombs are

0:36:36one of the things that I really love

0:36:38about this is the time tombs are a

0:36:40unknown structure from the future that

0:36:43is passing backward in time and then at

0:36:45some point in the past they will open

0:36:47contain and they contain things from the

0:36:50future which is just as real head

0:36:51spinner of an idea that you're watching

0:36:53an object that's traveling backward in

0:36:56time is a little like a particular

0:36:57happen there's a book called the

0:36:59chronoliths by that by robert charles

0:37:02wilson to its been i think i think maybe

0:37:04it is where it's the same thing where

0:37:06you kind of turn your head you're like

0:37:07oh this is from the future and now has

0:37:09come back to the past

0:37:11it is like a head scratcher yeah I think

0:37:14everybody make it used is it a visit of

0:37:16weapon your it's unclear who's in charge

0:37:18of the universe you know this is

0:37:19uncommon making my snuggle sandwich

0:37:21references as my wife but you know in in

0:37:24the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

0:37:25universe there actually is a guy in

0:37:27charge of the galaxy and you meet him at

0:37:28one point is very is very amusing and

0:37:31not quite what you'd expect in here it's

0:37:33like you know there are eventually I

0:37:35remember how far is that series of

0:37:37novels you understand that there are

0:37:38vast powers at work that it's not a

0:37:40local phenomenon a galaxy found

0:37:42something that's almost fundamental to

0:37:45nature itself there's a fight at the end

0:37:48of the universe and that's actually if I

0:37:50can talk about this little dudes like

0:37:51double spoiler alerts they're the

0:37:54problem with the Hyperion payer and the

0:37:57Endymion pair and that you can read this

0:37:59anywhere you read about Endymion is that

0:38:02he writes the history of red Hyperion

0:38:04you read fall of Hyperion and it's a

0:38:06self-contained set of stories then you

0:38:08jump 200-something years in the future

0:38:09and it's like a whole other ball of wax

0:38:12and that thing you read in Hyperion it

0:38:13was so beautiful

0:38:14well it wasn't really like that in that

0:38:16physical description that's in the book

0:38:17that physical description was wrong but

0:38:19you can't do that

0:38:21I understand he wanted to change the

0:38:22narrative but you can't say something in

0:38:24Hyperion that someone physically saw is

0:38:27now described differently i'm like i can

0:38:30pick up the other book and read the

0:38:31description is the book telling me the

0:38:33other copy of the physical book in

0:38:34reality is wrong so that it's i would

0:38:37just say well it's kinda like back to

0:38:38the future to think I i don't disagree

0:38:41with a go back over it and like wait a

0:38:43second that's not exactly what I'm gonna

0:38:45get the reward but I don't think see I'm

0:38:47gonna argue though and this is a

0:38:48recurring theme about sequels letting

0:38:50you down that it doesn't change how

0:38:52great this book is no and I think if you

0:38:55go in knowing that it that it doesn't

0:38:57really have an ending in that there's

0:38:58another book required to resolve the

0:39:00tales of the of the people it is a great

0:39:04ride

0:39:05Greg I mean when you agree absolutely

0:39:06unquestionably it's a terrific book I

0:39:09just wish there was another chapter we

0:39:11we shouldn't ones that are not a whole

0:39:13other book not three months just one

0:39:14more chapter to finish the freakin story

0:39:17that i started we should set up a list

0:39:19of ultimately start developing a list of

0:39:21the books like the great not just like

0:39:23greatest you know sci-fi which is hard

0:39:25to categorize but it's like you know the

0:39:27sparrow Hyperion and dune everyone

0:39:29should read them if they're interested

0:39:30in sci-fi in the least are trying to get

0:39:32into it like these three books are

0:39:33introduction to different aspects of

0:39:36sci-fi and they're fantastically

0:39:38interesting to read that's actually how

0:39:40I read Hyperion dune is some friends

0:39:42were appalled that I haven't read them

0:39:43and so they walked me through the hugo

0:39:45list instead circle them said this one

0:39:47this one this one this one

0:39:48I've been reading science fiction my

0:39:49whole life and I hadn't read some of the

0:39:51you know towering classics of the genre

0:39:54here's my review of dune it picks up

0:39:58after the after the first 200 pages

0:40:00starts good at a dozen going to 12

0:40:04minutes but in the desert yeah once

0:40:06using the desert it's a whole different

0:40:07book sure end of Barrow very Doria

0:40:09wrestles the sparrow which we should

0:40:11talk about it some point is it is one of

0:40:12the best book I've ever read

0:40:15however I will say that I think the last

0:40:16hundred pages of it feels like she

0:40:18realized she needed to finish and get it

0:40:20to a publisher and a lot of her

0:40:22description and detailed drops out and

0:40:24it becomes about about plot resolution

0:40:26yet but doesn't change the fact that I

0:40:28love that book it is a hit endings are

0:40:30talkin i mean III never look any further

0:40:32than a real Stephenson is one of my

0:40:34favorite writers yeah it's very early a

0:40:36it seemed to have some sort of

0:40:38congenital ending problem wishes kiddo

0:40:41crash he said that he right on the hands

0:40:44he said that yeah I don't write I'm a

0:40:47competent enough writer to write the

0:40:48ending i intend I wanted him that way

0:40:50he's wrong about that one work then

0:40:52exactly yeah i mean snow crash is a

0:40:54fantastic weekend i think one of the one

0:40:56of the best books in the last you know

0:40:5830 years but it's just yes that it has

0:41:02great it's great all the way up until

0:41:04about like the last chapter and you're

0:41:06just like wait what

0:41:07it's over soon okay chase giant screens

0:41:10vital organs destruction of the

0:41:12government helicopter chase mafia zodiac

0:41:14is the only book he's ever written that

0:41:16is actually a coherent story with a

0:41:18beginning a middle and an end in sight

0:41:19and I've ever do that if you take the

0:41:21entire baroque cycle from beginning to

0:41:23finish that it takes one giant story

0:41:25which actually has a pretty decent

0:41:27ending it talk about taking 200 pages

0:41:29400 500 pages to get going i loved it

0:41:31you gotta warm up with three guys on

0:41:33Twitter page novel to get to the end

0:41:35I've tried twice to start it and I have

0:41:37failed i got a little for the second

0:41:39time it's worth it's like absolutely i

0:41:41got to be so the undersea and I was like

0:41:43all right I don't know what it is worth

0:41:45that I love that I and i also love the

0:41:47fact that I'm more sure to hook you to

0:41:49hook you he said he says you know early

0:41:51on I'm gonna have a big pirate battle

0:41:54and then there's like not that it has

0:41:56nothing to do with basically the rest of

0:41:58the book but you know he throws it in

0:41:59the beginning to get you hooked a little

0:42:01minutes a oh I'll ride for 3,000 pages I

0:42:04really dragged out and I was 405 ok now

0:42:06we're going

0:42:07yeah like two takes that long it takes

0:42:09at least halfway through the first look

0:42:11there I was just like okay now we're

0:42:13getting to it and then the second book

0:42:14is fantastic i thought my favorite of

0:42:16the entire series but yeah I fingers

0:42:18went numb and in the ice storm swept in

0:42:20and i just had to climb back down I

0:42:22couldn't do it

0:42:22I i well knowing that there's 3,000 at

0:42:25least you knew there were 3,000 pages

0:42:26but we got to the end of this story as

0:42:28opposed to something like Hyperion where

0:42:29you know you don't know that going in a

0:42:32hurry and it can be kind of upsetting

0:42:33and it's nice if you're really desperate

0:42:35for something to read and you're like oh

0:42:36there's a drought of books coming out

0:42:37that I want to do something you just you

0:42:39just sink yourself in that that's how i

0:42:41feel about that about the george RR

0:42:42martin I've got that look

0:42:44fourth book or whatever it is in his

0:42:45series and I'm just that still salted

0:42:47away for a lean time because i know that

0:42:49it's gonna be forever before regrets the

0:42:51next one oh yeah and the best part of

0:42:53that is you'll have to read the first

0:42:54three before you can even read that just

0:42:55you remember what happened doing these

0:42:57people again and and it's funny talking

0:42:59about Stephenson we may not get to

0:43:00Michael shape on today I don't know I

0:43:02mean neal stephenson I I think zodiac is

0:43:04a really good thing

0:43:06Greg mentioned it that I i think it

0:43:08holds together and I think it's a really

0:43:09good piece of work and i really like the

0:43:11diamond age actually i'm not sure i

0:43:14think snow crash the first half of snow

0:43:15crash is great but then I feel like it

0:43:17kinda repeats itself until it's like a

0:43:19record

0:43:21really you know sort of skipping it

0:43:22until it's somebody listen up the needle

0:43:24at the end to you know the first half is

0:43:26great and then it kind of falls apart I

0:43:28wouldn't dug up the big you his first

0:43:29book and they're amusing scenes but it's

0:43:31it's not worth going to find acceptable

0:43:33with a brain surgery

0:43:35it's the one that is likely candidate no

0:43:37no that that was the one written under a

0:43:39pseudonym that came later and I get

0:43:41what's called think the student named

0:43:42off top even break hehe yeah the the big

0:43:45you is written under his name but it was

0:43:47something he wrote in college and it's a

0:43:49satire / parody of of like a mill

0:43:53college where the it's a like an office

0:43:55block that the college takes place in

0:43:58its just one giant building and there

0:44:01were some nice scenes in there were some

0:44:02really great scenes but on the whole it

0:44:04was just a big mass zodiac is the one

0:44:07where I i read zodiac after snow crash

0:44:08and I said wow this is great and it was

0:44:10you know setting the present day in

0:44:12boston and there's a guy with a red

0:44:14after nice the eco spiderman spiderman i

0:44:17also learned I learned what to do if you

0:44:19get pc people arity pcp poisoning no no

0:44:22uh-uh shukaku charcoal if you swallow

0:44:26Germany PCP is not the polygonal port

0:44:29but know that we see what's there is a

0:44:32pollution and the individual dust

0:44:34yeah maybe right we're just gonna get

0:44:36along in the book it's pcbs PCB and you

0:44:40chew carpet charcoal which later turned

0:44:41out he was with the accuracy and I

0:44:43learned a valuable life skill from the

0:44:45book if you have if you hadn't talked to

0:44:47create ways you can eat some charcoal

0:44:48thank you tell you can tell by the

0:44:50backend charcoal charcoal is tasty

0:44:53alright so we talk about the image

0:44:55policemen's union woman new yeah I'm

0:44:57refresh my memory on it which is all

0:45:00about honestly say i'm reading whenever

0:45:02you make a peanut you can use it was a

0:45:03couple years ago when i read it but I i

0:45:05loved it when i read it it was one of my

0:45:06favorite books that you're actually

0:45:08recommended to my dad i recommend a lot

0:45:09of books to my dad but as he's Jewish i

0:45:12thought he and in like sort of you re

0:45:14stuff I thought he would get a kick out

0:45:16of it

0:45:16yeah so it's and it's it's it 11 Hugo it

0:45:21is a an alt history story which is why I

0:45:26think it qualifies set in late forties I

0:45:31believe her early not notice it's is no

0:45:34no it's later no it's uh it's modern age

0:45:36is elimination day

0:45:38yeah this is a vergence period is in the

0:45:40early forties that's really growing

0:45:42changes right they create a place for

0:45:44all the Jews in the world to go because

0:45:46Israel is doesn't work is destroyed and

0:45:50so they all end up in Sitka Alaska and

0:45:52it's 50 years later and there's one of

0:45:54these like Hong Kong with a hundred-year

0:45:55least there's a 50-year lease on the

0:45:57space the space is about to be vacated

0:46:01which means that all the Jews in Sitka

0:46:02are having to find somewhere else

0:46:04somewhere else in the world it's sort of

0:46:06a new diaspora and in this there's a

0:46:09murder mystery that's told from the

0:46:11perspective of the policeman who are

0:46:14working in the last days of this Jewish

0:46:17enclaves existence if you got to have a

0:46:20Shamus if you've got a murder mystery

0:46:22you got you got you got to have it and

0:46:24there's mysticism in it too so it's not

0:46:26just the old history there

0:46:27the whole idea of a mystical kind of but

0:46:32it's just such a well-done homage to you

0:46:36know youryour Raymond Chandler Dashiell

0:46:38and Hammett style detective novels oh

0:46:42yeah it's 24 tits or LLL construct

0:46:45hard-boiled detective story except that

0:46:47it's got this quacky alt universe

0:46:51setting right which is that I mean it

0:46:55the fact that the you know one of the

0:46:57best writers in the English language is

0:47:00playing in John was like this delight me

0:47:02to no end that he he is he

0:47:05you know you put him on the list he is I

0:47:07would fight to the end of the earth to

0:47:09say that Michael Chabon is one of the

0:47:10best writers period in the English

0:47:12language if not be besties in the top

0:47:14five or ten and he writes young adult

0:47:17and sci-fi and think I'm gonna handle

0:47:20even and comic books and things that are

0:47:21kind of asked you and mashing up John

0:47:23Roos and then doing amazing man won a

0:47:25Pulitzer to ya for kept for Kavalier and

0:47:27clay would use this is fantastic but it

0:47:30has the same capital and clay has this

0:47:31thing that it stung me when I read it

0:47:33and it it also stunned me in English

0:47:35policemen is uh he's not writing as a

0:47:38magical realism is running fully in the

0:47:40alternative world that it creates a very

0:47:41realistically defined world that

0:47:44parallels real development scattering

0:47:46clay it's you know it's a comic but it's

0:47:48a different duh set of which comic book

0:47:52heroes became big right instead of

0:47:54Superman it's the escapist and writing

0:47:56that book there's a scene that I

0:47:57remember a time it wasn't showing that i

0:48:00was just so stunned by it because you're

0:48:02reading along and he goes to the

0:48:03cemetery and is trying to essentially

0:48:05commune with his stead have been sort of

0:48:07our main character whatever main

0:48:08characters turkey with is the dead music

0:48:11magician who trained him and he said

0:48:13he's not going to show up he's not going

0:48:14to show up and he didn't show up and

0:48:15then he turns around there is and you're

0:48:17like oh wow he just want to just do

0:48:18there

0:48:19he took me out of this be no it isn't

0:48:21easter said we're in the real world

0:48:22people die and there's nothing else and

0:48:25then over here is the ghost and the same

0:48:27thing use policeman where you're you're

0:48:28sort of like this guy is not the Machine

0:48:30he's not the Messiah this is all sort of

0:48:33fever dream and and all you know there's

0:48:36all these political plans and all this

0:48:38other stuff going on like oh my goodness

0:48:40gracious

0:48:41he is perhaps you may be less i am maybe

0:48:43but he has the the scene when he when

0:48:47the wife of the of the rabbi of the

0:48:50litter alli is recounting to the

0:48:55detective that you know how our son

0:48:57visited her right and the son who is may

0:49:00or may not be the Messiah is able to eat

0:49:02she thinks he's overweight woman and she

0:49:04looks at him again and realizes that he

0:49:06has no he just made her perceived that

0:49:07and you like what what is that is that

0:49:09you know a godlike power

0:49:11what is his role in Redemption and and

0:49:14it's just it just breaks you out of this

0:49:15hole you know realistic all history into

0:49:17something that's like magical realism it

0:49:20isn't

0:49:20Wow and that's the end of that seems the

0:49:25podcast looks like everyone's just

0:49:28wrapped it right now you have that

0:49:30moment where you bought into the premise

0:49:31and said this is a wacky premise but now

0:49:33it's being held

0:49:34it's being handled in a real-world

0:49:36certain way and then there's that twist

0:49:38where he says ah but what if they're

0:49:41right and this guy is was is the Messiah

0:49:44and uh it's like the end of Miracle on

0:49:46thirty-fourth Street and the red calf

0:49:48has been born because there's a whole

0:49:51thing about the breeding the cows to get

0:49:53the red calf that's truly have a redcap

0:49:55you know that's really good yet know

0:49:57that you know I know it's kit comes up

0:49:59in the goddamn spirit as well there's a

0:50:01meme the red heifer must be bored the

0:50:04red heifer the red heifer in in hyper

0:50:07like nothing amusing that there's a

0:50:10messiah but not until Endymion

0:50:12ah but you know shape on the characters

0:50:16are great you do have that cannot neared

0:50:19well the pop and his partner

0:50:24I mean he's literally you know every

0:50:26private I you know from hardwell crime

0:50:29fiction right yeah he's got the ex-wife

0:50:31and you know he's got you know the

0:50:34partner drinking problem drinking

0:50:36problem chest problems got a terrible

0:50:38chest problem huh what's got his court

0:50:40right like every every detective always

0:50:42has there there's their little quirk and

0:50:44i love i love how well that ship on a

0:50:47sort of mixes the the language that he

0:50:50uses in like the the the terminology in

0:50:53the vocab

0:50:53very mixing finish with in such a way

0:50:57that it's so seamlessly comes off

0:50:59sounding like hard-boiled detective

0:51:02speak right in the same way that you

0:51:04might call it on like a heater or

0:51:05something like it's a kind of all bleeds

0:51:08together in it totally works

0:51:10I just found that it so well done and so

0:51:13engrossing in the way that he just you

0:51:15know this is what would happen if you

0:51:17had put all these that's very clunky an

0:51:19orange people like that in there

0:51:22yeah and there's I mean it that in

0:51:24comparison with the the whole you know

0:51:27substituting sort of instead of the the

0:51:30Jews having to deal with the a you know

0:51:32Palestinians who are their they're

0:51:34sharing this land with the Native

0:51:36Americans yielding all sorts of you know

0:51:39obviously parallel disputes and and sort

0:51:43of interesting meshing of the the native

0:51:45religion and Judaism and all these these

0:51:48conflicts and anyway you know and they

0:51:50want the land and so does the American

0:51:51government right right is reminded of

0:51:53interesting things about the setting is

0:51:55that the the US government is basically

0:51:57said it's funny because of course we

0:51:59have a US government that's a supporter

0:52:02of Israel and has been since it was

0:52:04founded and in this novel the US

0:52:06government is basically telling all the

0:52:08Jews on its soil get beat it

0:52:09we're done with you get you know it is a

0:52:11very stark contrast and the end you know

0:52:15everybody's afraid of being left behind

0:52:17and being essentially stateless which is

0:52:20you know crazy but that's the situation

0:52:22that they're in it such a contrast yeah

0:52:27it's me it's a great term as you get it

0:52:28right about that you gotta write about

0:52:29at some level like the Palestinians or

0:52:32stateless people

0:52:34yeah but you know with this sort of

0:52:35unfamiliar place in the Jews to create

0:52:37Israel what things to the Jewish people

0:52:39are the Disraeli styling pioneers what

0:52:42did they do to make their state and in

0:52:44this case they were totally powerless

0:52:46like here's the notes godforsaken place

0:52:48the frozen north and and you know make

0:52:51something of it which they do for 50

0:52:53years and then then get out

0:52:54mu mu nu no no more red how not the half

0:53:03are not the half four different new

0:53:05alright we're communing with our with

0:53:07our Judaism apparently if you say so

0:53:10I'll run that by my wife Paula mentions

0:53:13written

0:53:14ah yes now you're speaking German prison

0:53:17or is it a little a little a little of

0:53:20both you can talk one way you can talk

0:53:21to the other

0:53:22alright Michael Chabon I'll throw it out

0:53:26their Road up young adult novel in 2002

0:53:29called Summerland which is fantastic and

0:53:31features a fairyland where the fairies

0:53:34all play baseball

0:53:35it's always summer time and it is also

0:53:37rotate a strange little book called the

0:53:40applicable final solution about a

0:53:43basically a detective a retired older

0:53:47detective who may be familiar if you've

0:53:48read a lot of detective fiction

0:53:50uh-huh and he wrote he wrote a small

0:53:53novel called gentlemen of the road world

0:53:56as we truly believe he said he's working

0:53:58title with something like jews in Asia

0:54:00and basically an accident it its attack

0:54:03or a ski is an action book and they've

0:54:05got swords and they fight and they do

0:54:07you think they're gonna die and then

0:54:08they don't die and you think they're

0:54:09gonna die and they don't die and it's

0:54:11it's hugely fun I mean that's the thing

0:54:14about this guy is is his books are not

0:54:16snoozes they are they're all really good

0:54:20so you know I i actually just read his

0:54:23up essay collection manhood for amateurs

0:54:25and and that was great too so he's a

0:54:27he's one of my favorites and if you're

0:54:30going to start

0:54:31I mean I guess you start with this one

0:54:32and you start with the Amazing

0:54:34Adventures of Kavalier and clay which

0:54:36you won the Pulitzer for which is a

0:54:37terrific masterwork of a book a parallel

0:54:41book to that by the way is Carter beats

0:54:44the devil out nearly the same time

0:54:46finish tonight right that totally

0:54:48underrated book and there are many

0:54:49things in common I think they're written

0:54:51almost the same you know the same here

0:54:53as Kavalier and clay but very very

0:54:55underrated book again again with the

0:54:57magical realism a little bit of it you

0:54:59know a little goes a long way and that's

0:55:01a Glen David gold that's right that's

0:55:04rather that I have a copy that i picked

0:55:05this one of the ones i picked up just

0:55:07off a whim you know looking at the

0:55:08bookshelf and now you know i was at some

0:55:10point had like magicians was a very big

0:55:13interest of mine and and it looked it

0:55:15has great you know cover and sort of

0:55:17this old-timey

0:55:18Houdini era poster it's just I don't

0:55:22know it's something about it intrigued

0:55:23me and I picked it up and read it on

0:55:25women and it was fantastic i would say

0:55:27the two you can pick a better claim one

0:55:28hand car beats the devil on the other

0:55:30and the very next books to read

0:55:32back-to-back they're very similar

0:55:33fundamental nature of the different

0:55:36writing styles both incredibly good

0:55:38reads all right I that's a good

0:55:41transition for me to ask you anything

0:55:43that you've been reading or that you

0:55:45would like to recommend a massive

0:55:47incomparable list listening audience I I

0:55:49keep putting books down I never do this

0:55:51and I've been reading books at the

0:55:52suggestion of people on Twitter and on

0:55:54this podcast and I got put down week i

0:55:56could not proceed through weekend was

0:55:59infamous for something no info quick i

0:56:01have now you know like I've got but

0:56:03haven't read way to come by robert

0:56:04sawyer i mentioned that was a hugo

0:56:06nominee and that's the blind as the

0:56:08blind girl right with the emergent yeah

0:56:10internet I having trouble with the

0:56:12windup girl to I'm partway into that and

0:56:13I know we talked about that before

0:56:15it's very it's good it's very difficult

0:56:17time finding it's such a it's that it's

0:56:20the parts of snow crash or like the era

0:56:22the diamond age like this is well where

0:56:23there's parts that are so unpleasant and

0:56:25gritty actually parts of the girl with

0:56:27the dragon tattoo same thing it's like

0:56:29you're like man if I can get through

0:56:30this part maybe I could read more of it

0:56:32but i'm not sure i have the wherewithal

0:56:33to like get through all this incredible

0:56:35gritty dirty sweaty awfulness but i will

0:56:38try

0:56:39alright Dan i just read spin some kept i

0:56:46can't recommend this book enough but I i

0:56:49just bought a book

0:56:51um I know it's exciting i don't usually

0:56:54buys i usually get stuff out the library

0:56:56but i just i had to head to finish been

0:56:59so i have been able to read this book

0:57:00that i bought last week which i bought

0:57:02at a book signing

0:57:03while i was previously california by one

0:57:07of my favorite it's not my favorite

0:57:08author was a woman named Lois McMaster

0:57:11Bujold write science fiction and fantasy

0:57:13and this book is the latest in quarter

0:57:17series called before cozy Gonzaga which

0:57:21is kind of a space opera / got pretty

0:57:26much everything like her books what's

0:57:27greatest for books running run the gamut

0:57:29in terms of genre

0:57:30of them are sort of more space adventure

0:57:32ii some of them are war stories there

0:57:33are mysteries romances like it basically

0:57:36follows one particular character through

0:57:39his entire life and she said during the

0:57:41reading that I went to that she is very

0:57:44much modeled after CS foresters Horatio

0:57:47Hornblower series and it definitely has

0:57:50a vibe like that but it's all set in

0:57:52space anyway sushi just released the

0:57:54most recent novel in the series which is

0:57:56called cryo burn which i'm not going to

0:57:58read it because i was finishing spins I

0:58:00could talk to you guys about it so it's

0:58:02sitting there on my desk taunting me and

0:58:05report back on that next time i will but

0:58:08i will say anyone who is not read her

0:58:09series of foreclosing so i got i highly

0:58:11recommend it and where we start with

0:58:13that one of the wall so it's kind of

0:58:15tricky because they're there's actually

0:58:16a pair of books that she wrote first

0:58:17that deal with the parents of the of the

0:58:20person who goes on to be the main

0:58:21character the rest of the series but if

0:58:23you would like to start with the

0:58:23Warriors apprentice which is depending

0:58:25on how you look at it the first or third

0:58:27book in the series and believable

0:58:28available as a free book it's available

0:58:30as a free even gonna baney library which

0:58:33is one reason i suggested friend is free

0:58:36first ones free mmm first book in the

0:58:38series issue except unless it's Hyperion

0:58:40are doing or something like that after

0:58:42pay for it i forgot one we ever got one

0:58:45how to live safely in the science

0:58:46fictional universes always reading it i

0:58:48am reading that too and we will be

0:58:49talking about that a future podcast i

0:58:51assume perhaps so by Charles you i'm

0:58:53reading that right now

0:58:54fascinating it is very strange yes or a

0:58:57strange book

0:58:57Greg are you reading anything i'm kind

0:58:59of impressed that I got a quiet hour

0:59:01just to record this podcast my own would

0:59:04it

0:59:05anthem has haunted my nightstand for

0:59:07what two years now but it on my right

0:59:10side is holding everything down

0:59:12that's true that's helping i will read

0:59:13anything Neal Stephenson rights

0:59:15including like in the beginning was the

0:59:16command line and mother earth

0:59:17motherboard and I just haven't been able

0:59:20to get to it

0:59:21I for this twice and I was surprised the

0:59:23second reading held up very very well

0:59:25and I actually in some ways liked it

0:59:27better because it was less confusion and

0:59:29suspense about certain things that

0:59:30confuse me and suspended me the first

0:59:32time every time i'm confused by a book

0:59:34that i enjoy i'll go back and reread it

0:59:36just because you're not so hung up on

0:59:38the details of what's going on and

0:59:40you're taking in the bigger picture i am

0:59:43reading

0:59:44I i am reading how to live safely

0:59:46science fictional universe i just

0:59:47finished blackout by connie willis which

0:59:49is recommended by Dan more'n the sequel

0:59:52to to Hugo winners actually to say

0:59:54nothing of the dog and domesday book but

0:59:56I in the theme of today's show it is

0:59:59really one

0:59:59really one

1:00:00half of a larger novel or the good news

1:00:04is that the part second part all-clear

1:00:06came out this week or last week but not

1:00:10gonna get get ahold of that recently and

1:00:12I knew that going in so i knew i was

1:00:14sort of going to read have to see me to

1:00:15call i was much better than when I did

1:00:17not know that and in like got closer and

1:00:19closer to the end of what is actually a

1:00:20pretty large book yeah I'm started

1:00:22thinking how that hello they ever gonna

1:00:24get active and it's funny because it is

1:00:26you can sort of see where it's going

1:00:29with the science fictional aspect of the

1:00:31plot was behind where his story but it

1:00:32is a historical it's really a historical

1:00:34novel about the London Blitz that

1:00:35happens to have some time travelers who

1:00:37are witnessing it and you see it through

1:00:39their eyes but it's not i mean this the

1:00:41point of the story is that different

1:00:43aspects of people living through the

1:00:44Blitz and it's good but it's definitely

1:00:47not your rollicking time travel

1:00:49adventure it is much more a a sci-fi

1:00:52novel that's really a historic it's a

1:00:54little more in the vein of the domesday

1:00:56book in some ways yeah out of the side

1:00:59note is I think we might discuss

1:01:01discussing anthologies and short-story

1:01:03collections I've read in the last couple

1:01:05years I've read a few amazing collection

1:01:07of short stories by scifi writers who

1:01:09often don't write full-length novels or

1:01:11they're probably not their full-length

1:01:13novels are not as well regarded as a

1:01:15short stories and then maybe

1:01:16entertaining to discuss i agree in fact

1:01:18i I read a short story collection i

1:01:20thought was maybe was it in with DES

1:01:22Greg recommended to me

1:01:24Greg NOS was it you that depend on the

1:01:27island yeah yeah i did i did like them

1:01:30yes it was me

1:01:31well then what was it do you remember

1:01:32that thing you know with the guy with

1:01:34the guys that too is terrific

1:01:37oh man I can't remember it now it was it

1:01:39was really great by a seattle-based

1:01:40writer it might be is it that he had a

1:01:43story in there about someone who the

1:01:45story about the guy who said there's the

1:01:47mirror that you can step through and go

1:01:49back in time or forward in time

1:01:51depending on when your army I go and no

1:01:54that was a wardrobe mirror anyway I'll

1:01:56alice in wonderland in the show notes

1:01:58and this is not a game show you going to

1:02:00get me a calamity circus sounds like I'm

1:02:03not the internet read the other book

1:02:06that I read was the disappearing spoon

1:02:08by sam keen and I recommend it highly it

1:02:11is popular

1:02:13science nonfiction and it's a book about

1:02:16the periodic table of the elements and

1:02:18let me just say every element has at

1:02:22least a chapters worth of wacky

1:02:24historical anecdotes about it and it

1:02:28takes this kind of this veering bouncing

1:02:30around the periodic table to tell you

1:02:32about various scientists who learned

1:02:34great things before they died young from

1:02:36horribly poisoning themselves with

1:02:38various elements that the time the book

1:02:41disappearing spoon refers to an element

1:02:44and I can't remember which one now but

1:02:45it's it's a metal whose melting point is

1:02:48it about 70 degrees Fahrenheit so you

1:02:50can craft a spoon of this metal and stop

1:02:52stored in a freezer and then you serve

1:02:54it with tea and somebody's tries to stir

1:02:57their tea with it and it melts in the

1:02:59tea and they go I and and then everybody

1:03:02has a laugh and then presumably dies of

1:03:04heavy calculate something that'll give

1:03:05you this but seriously that's a great

1:03:07that's a murder mystery there I would

1:03:09have loved that book I write these two

1:03:11ladies it's too late to Sammy Sam keen

1:03:13has already read it slide right i can

1:03:15recommend it in in sort of a bill bryson

1:03:17style of its light and fun and yet

1:03:19everybody dies is all great but it has

1:03:22some great great stories in it so the

1:03:25disappearing spearing check it out if

1:03:28you want to read about elements because

1:03:29let me tell you they're all around us a

1:03:31sequel will be about fundamental forces

1:03:33will be called the dropped and no it'll

1:03:35be about molecules will be for all

1:03:38gluons the protest appearing ion I don't

1:03:41know it was great so if you like your if

1:03:43you like a little science along with

1:03:44your science fiction that would be a

1:03:45nice little side book to read is

1:03:48disappearing spoon that's all i got

1:03:51anything else I don't know boy we really

1:03:57ended with a bang their this lake and

1:03:59just like some of the material into the

1:04:01tray woodall died if this part this

1:04:04yes yes dear listener now that you've

1:04:07reached this point we can tell you the

1:04:09most important thing that will make this

1:04:11entire podcast revelatory to you you'll

1:04:14say well I am so glad that they finally

1:04:17brought it all back together

1:04:18oh well we're out of time I guess we'll

1:04:20bring that up at the beginning of the

1:04:21next podcast sad so until then I'm Jason

1:04:26snow i would like to thank Mike

1:04:27ascot McNulty thank you for being here

1:04:29remember me always there always species

1:04:31uplands you have been and always will be

1:04:34my friend wrong podcast damn its Dan

1:04:39Morgan thank you Dan for being on every

1:04:41podcast

1:04:42well thanks Jason I keep inviting me to

1:04:44everybody yes that's right you're you

1:04:45know this podcast is over well know it

1:04:47is over now

1:04:48uh gun fleischmann thank you very much

1:04:51for attending you have perfect

1:04:52attendance so far and Greg NOS thanks

1:04:55for joining us and and becoming one with

1:04:57the one with the podcast for the first

1:04:59time

1:05:00Thank You Regis i want to remind

1:05:01everybody movie comes out friday that's

1:05:03that's right do we have a clip

1:05:05no no there's no clip sorry your movie

1:05:08comes out friday that means you like get

1:05:10a netflix envelope in the mail this

1:05:11before this podcast posts get iMovie 11

1:05:13and make a clip for your movie what we

1:05:15also know talk about apple products so

1:05:17why would people even think we know

1:05:19about apple's certain things are an

1:05:20apple spoiler alert porn no now that's

1:05:24the whole podcast at warren alright

1:05:26until next time thanks for listening to

1:05:28be uncomfortable

1:05:29goodbye

1:05:31this has been the incomparable podcast

1:05:34visitor sadly incomparable dot-com

1:05:38[Music]

1:05:45[Music]

1:05:54[Music]

1:05:57going to do some extra credit exercise

1:05:59and I'm I'm I don't think he really

1:06:02understands the concept of extra credit

1:06:04I worked with a woman once and her

1:06:07husband was a personal trainer he said

1:06:08come on come on it'll be fun and so I

1:06:10met him at gym at five in the morning

1:06:11one day and he he he worked me over like

1:06:14a piece of ham and i could not lower my

1:06:17arms for a three more days i was walking

1:06:20around like a Tyrannosaurus Rex leaning

1:06:22over the keyboard to type because I

1:06:24didn't have any flexibility in my elbows

1:06:25there are so many things that you said

1:06:28that were interesting there's the I work

1:06:30with a woman once they get that that was

1:06:35that was against working over like a ham

1:06:37that was it that was it i wasn't aware

1:06:39that hands were worked over i think yes

1:06:42I i went for the wrong piece of meat i

1:06:44should have said side of beef

1:06:46you know the whole Rocky Balboa ask take

1:06:48all right i just i was imagining like a

1:06:51spiral cut ham and has helped people

1:06:53coming over handing on it you were a ham

1:06:56I was spiral cut and honey glaze and

1:06:59honey glazed delicious

1:07:01[Music]