The Incomparable

11: To Be Continued?

 

  podcast episode 11 / 2010 [TS]

  this is the uncomfortable podcast I call [TS]

  this meeting of the book club to order [TS]

  it is it made to order it when i get to [TS]

  choose I didn't choose actually i think [TS]

  what books we finally decided to talk [TS]

  about this and didn't say I hate you all [TS]

  that every podcast was supposed to let [TS]

  me introduce all the people i hate today [TS]

  first and foremost the voice you just [TS]

  heard Glenn fleischmann hi Glenn [TS]

  hello there I also joining us today Dan [TS]

  Morgan who's on every podcast idea i'm [TS]

  on every podcast in the world that's [TS]

  right i don't know why but he is usually [TS]

  uninvited I really really bored clearly [TS]

  also joining us today Scott McNulty who [TS]

  will be with us for a while and then [TS]

  we'll duck out to do like exercise and [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  yes I i'm a fat man who wants to be less [TS]

  fat [TS]

  well that's your holding down the [TS]

  Zeppelin right now exactly you can be [TS]

  lighter than air and also joining us [TS]

  today for his first time on the podcast [TS]

  be gentle or or don't be gentle [TS]

  Greg moss by Regis it's really nice to [TS]

  be here [TS]

  that's right Kathie Lee will be joining [TS]

  us worked me like a ham [TS]

  haha that's not not a euphemism [TS]

  everybody workin him like a ham [TS]

  so we have three books to talk about [TS]

  today and first up is spin winner of the [TS]

  hugo award by robert charles wilson [TS]

  published in 2005 on the hugo award in [TS]

  2006 it is apparently the first book [TS]

  according to wikipedia in the spin [TS]

  trilogy I've only read the first book so [TS]

  I cannot speak to the other magical [TS]

  selections in this in this a in [TS]

  astrology I believe several of you just [TS]

  finish this book I've read this ages ago [TS]

  I know you're talking about like five [TS]

  minutes ago right looks like at least I [TS]

  mean defensive we talked about in spin [TS]

  time or a regular time is right for you [TS]

  inside the envelope or outside the [TS]

  envelope and Scott you just finished it [TS]

  recently to write i finished last week [TS]

  wow I finished about two weeks ago so [TS]

  apparently had a curve my goodness this [TS]

  is like a real book club [TS]

  I i read it like two years ago but [TS]

  that's okay that was you know I feel I [TS]

  feel like I'm with it now we should [TS]

  start by asking [TS]

  didn't you read the next to is an [TS]

  indication of the books quality i bought [TS]

  a kindle and it's not available on the [TS]

  kindle and I decided I wasn't going to [TS]

  find paper and I haven't you know the [TS]

  third one is not yet i bought it right [TS]

  there that would also be that would be a [TS]

  small bottles of time and space which [TS]

  are contravene in many parts of spin so [TS]

  anyway to spin robert charles wilson the [TS]

  premise is that what would happen if the [TS]

  earth kind of got enveloped by this [TS]

  shell that turns out to be slowing its [TS]

  passage through time so time and the [TS]

  rest of the universe is patched passing [TS]

  much faster than it is on earth and [TS]

  there are some social ramifications and [TS]

  there's some character ramifications and [TS]

  then there's some interesting things [TS]

  that happen when you when they start to [TS]

  figure out that they can actually send [TS]

  stuff outside of the bubble into the [TS]

  rest of the universe so i don't know i [TS]

  don't know quite where to start uh we'll [TS]

  circle back around to this at the end [TS]

  but you know did you guys did you guys [TS]

  like it and you know what [TS]

  what did you like about it and what did [TS]

  you not about let's go with dan who read [TS]

  it the most recently by several minutes [TS]

  yeah i'm struggling to digest this [TS]

  entire book that i just finished [TS]

  um I kind of give it a solid i liked it [TS]

  you know wasn't it wasn't like what I [TS]

  didn't love it I didn't think it was [TS]

  like the best book I've read but it was [TS]

  entertaining it was interesting [TS]

  there's certainly a lot of great ideas [TS]

  in here and he really does pack them in [TS]

  um I i guess when I felt like what kind [TS]

  of the weaknesses are some of the [TS]

  characters are interesting but they're [TS]

  very hard to identify with at some [TS]

  points more deliberately than others i [TS]

  think you know especially when you talk [TS]

  about this these you could argue the [TS]

  central character if not the protagonist [TS]

  is is this guy Jason and he is terrible [TS]

  and another one yeah yeah what a [TS]

  terrible i can't you just can't believe [TS]

  anybody with the name Jason no way [TS]

  untrustworthy but he's kind of intended [TS]

  to be you know he sort of set up as a [TS]

  he's a genius you know he knows he's [TS]

  very intelligent he's been groomed from [TS]

  a young age to really change the world [TS]

  somehow how many happens to find this [TS]

  sort of you know he comes of age in this [TS]

  is perfect timing when he's actually [TS]

  able to put himself in a position where [TS]

  you can actually change the world [TS]

  arguably but he's also kind of this in [TS]

  screwed in [TS]

  screw double character who is very set [TS]

  apart from a lot of the other characters [TS]

  including the narrator who is his best [TS]

  friend and who is sort of the tempering [TS]

  influence and sometimes but I'm also [TS]

  seems to be on you know almost a more [TS]

  realistic plane but I guess I found you [TS]

  know some of the characters harder to [TS]

  identify with others the wilson a lot of [TS]

  his female characters especially are [TS]

  very hate to say not known always [TS]

  complimentary and not always as well [TS]

  drawn as i think i would like we get [TS]

  very much the idea of Jason's sister [TS]

  Diane like speed through the prison of [TS]

  prism of the protagonist who is in love [TS]

  with her [TS]

  so we get her drawn up a lot and I don't [TS]

  think that's necessarily always borne [TS]

  out by her actual portrayal is she not [TS]

  Jenny from Forrest Gump I mean kinda [TS]

  weird AC like goats on she's old [TS]

  childhood friend and she's not here for [TS]

  a lot of streets caught up in some crazy [TS]

  fundamentalist religion stuff and it's [TS]

  kind of a hippie well and MGM you know [TS]

  that's cute which I felt I I like given [TS]

  the fact that she was put on such a high [TS]

  pedestal i kind of expected more from [TS]

  her like what is he really seen her like [TS]

  you know they're there were definitely [TS]

  some sparks of earlier on I guess in the [TS]

  relationship in terms of like you know [TS]

  she set up to be kind of a parallel to [TS]

  her brother but also always like a step [TS]

  below him right and so i guess ii you [TS]

  know it's hard for me to to sort of see [TS]

  her the way that I think the protagonist [TS]

  does I've seen this problem in a couple [TS]

  of science fiction novels where there's [TS]

  a group of characters who started as [TS]

  children and their super kids [TS]

  I mean you know they're going to span [TS]

  the entire course of the novel and [TS]

  they're going to change the world and so [TS]

  they don't they seem remote from the [TS]

  moment they're introduced yeah like hard [TS]

  identified because I mean I mean I don't [TS]

  you guys I mean I wasn't super good [TS]

  briefly but yes I guess it's a little [TS]

  easier to and you're still wear the Cape [TS]

  there is that what they said it does [TS]

  have a little bit of the width of Endor [TS]

  to him right [TS]

  yes exactly that's a great compares true [TS]

  both characters jerks haha look for the [TS]

  radar good arguably right like third [TS]

  hurt so the rest of humanity doesn't [TS]

  have to live like jerks and enter [TS]

  doesn't like died in the corner with [TS]

  crystals growing out of his eyes now [TS]

  right but where's the spoiler warning [TS]

  always people who [TS]

  hey sorry we've already fired the [TS]

  spoiler horn always have to remember to [TS]

  put in virtual i only read the first of [TS]

  the under books to read it didn't stop [TS]

  there [TS]

  this is part of our ongoing the ongoing [TS]

  incomparable theme of only read the [TS]

  first book in any cereal 24 hours [TS]

  yeah is there any yet tell me about a [TS]

  second dune book how'd that work out [TS]

  no yeah so Scott know what did you think [TS]

  I enjoyed the book a lot i did cut i [TS]

  agree with Dan most of the characters [TS]

  are not likeable and I kind of found [TS]

  them it was the same Tyler time like the [TS]

  the protagonist of the narrator is [TS]

  either well he's the we see the story [TS]

  from his point of view and he kind of [TS]

  ideal hehe is like a farming puppy to [TS]

  this family of people who do not treat [TS]

  him all that well but he just keeps [TS]

  going back to them right uh which I kind [TS]

  of annoyed me throughout the book [TS]

  because you know he's he's kind of the [TS]

  most relatable of the characters that [TS]

  are all unrelatable so you kind of feel [TS]

  for him but then you think why do you [TS]

  keep going back to these situations with [TS]

  these people don't seem to care about [TS]

  you and he's kinda cold to write like [TS]

  they make a point of that a few [TS]

  different places in the book of him [TS]

  being a little bit removed from the [TS]

  world right when he starts going out [TS]

  with that woman who is and his coldness [TS]

  it is justified because it turns out [TS]

  that woman is a secret double agent [TS]

  yeah another one of the female [TS]

  characters whose not drawn exceedingly [TS]

  complement really it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  come off well we all know women are just [TS]

  about sex religion and betrayal [TS]

  oh don't forget out we really don't know [TS]

  haha drunk is drunk stupid and what else [TS]

  is you've got to have that jaded I mean [TS]

  I like this book but he did the mom of [TS]

  the of the up Jason and Diane is a she's [TS]

  like you're jaded Washington alcoholic [TS]

  housewife right with a secret deep [TS]

  secret that can only be revealed 5% [TS]

  before the end of the book [TS]

  yes exactly yeah if she gets a [TS]

  Redemption a little bit of the air but [TS]

  especially a central casting sort of the [TS]

  others [TS]

  is one positive female characters [TS]

  malaysia right here malaysia and [TS]

  indianola yes although you know that the [TS]

  Malaysian doctor and she is awesome [TS]

  she's well-drawn she's fasting this is [TS]

  my problem with the book is that I'm [TS]

  much more interested in the secondary [TS]

  characters then the main characters [TS]

  there's an incredibly strong plot and [TS]

  some really neat science like some [TS]

  really neat ways of like where you're [TS]

  starting to sound exactly the envelopes [TS]

  about for the first time for the book [TS]

  then once all that's known i'm like well [TS]

  I really kind of like the Martian or I [TS]

  like you know that the double-crossing [TS]

  betray Roman like she's sort of [TS]

  interesting or the fundamentalist guy [TS]

  who died in Mary's like he's passing and [TS]

  bizarre like all those people are drawn [TS]

  and sketches much more richly if not [TS]

  realistically than the primary [TS]

  characters yeah i mean speaking I mean [TS]

  speaking from a writer Lee perspective [TS]

  and that's easier and a lot of ways [TS]

  right because when you have a character [TS]

  who is such a major character they have [TS]

  to be so fleshed out you know just in [TS]

  terms of their exposure in the book and [TS]

  have to be so developed and so [TS]

  three-dimensional to get you to really [TS]

  be inside their head that it's very [TS]

  tough because you can really see it in a [TS]

  very close detail as opposed to the [TS]

  sketches that you get for those [TS]

  secondary characters which are often [TS]

  enough to get you let your imagination [TS]

  soar to fill in the rest of the details [TS]

  you don't necessarily have to go into [TS]

  their home life and like you know they [TS]

  had a terrible childhood and all this [TS]

  stuff you can sort of get an idea from [TS]

  them from just a brief you throwaway [TS]

  lines and I i agree i think Wilson does [TS]

  vary a great job with a lot of those [TS]

  secondary characters so you know this [TS]

  book does have this interesting [TS]

  back-and-forth device where you are [TS]

  the infield essentially billions of [TS]

  years in the future with the same [TS]

  characters that we we see in the past [TS]

  when their kids and it goes back and [TS]

  forth and to glens point it is [TS]

  interesting that the the stuff that set [TS]

  in the future feels very different some [TS]

  of the characters they're very [TS]

  interesting they're really on the run in [TS]

  malaysia trying to get a boat to escape [TS]

  and them and tyler is really sick and we [TS]

  don't really know why he's sick at first [TS]

  and we discovered that very late and [TS]

  I'll i really enjoy that time frame a [TS]

  lot although it does have the flaw of [TS]

  being a part of the story that doesn't [TS]

  really have an ending right well I mean [TS]

  the structure of the book if you ask me [TS]

  is [TS]

  kind of i'm guessing it's deliver in [TS]

  this sense that it's kind of an arch [TS]

  right because both of the things start [TS]

  you start the beginning and then at the [TS]

  end the two narratives meet yes and so [TS]

  and of course you know there is an arch [TS]

  in the book a giant arch a giant art [TS]

  which is symbolic so I think I mean I i [TS]

  would not be surprised to find that the [TS]

  structure of the narrative was created [TS]

  to sort of have a have a resonance with [TS]

  that I'm like that whole development who [TS]

  was disappointed by the ending [TS]

  everyone everyone everyone follows its [TS]

  already just what disappointed you about [TS]

  it i want to do is I was fascinated by [TS]

  the idea of the bubble and the physics [TS]

  that went into it and how society [TS]

  reacted to it and like there were so [TS]

  many possibilities once they establish [TS]

  that it happened and then as they [TS]

  started resolving those possibilities at [TS]

  as the number of things that it could be [TS]

  collapsed down into specifics they it [TS]

  was all really well done but you were [TS]

  just kind of left with oh okay I'll buy [TS]

  that and the Martian was interesting and [TS]

  okay it was fun to go and terraform mars [TS]

  in the next couple of weeks and but it [TS]

  just it didn't seem to add up to the [TS]

  potential that the bubble had at the [TS]

  beginning of the book in which turns out [TS]

  to be [TS]

  it's a universal literally universal [TS]

  fidonet wow you want something that is [TS]

  over haha haha no it's not it's my new [TS]

  machines on going over all the gallery [TS]

  forward packet network and they've [TS]

  decided I mean the premise again spoiler [TS]

  horn long ago was fired [TS]

  the premise is that that uh he's looking [TS]

  for work now the that the that this [TS]

  yes thank you and I have I'm sorry [TS]

  the premise here is that they're they're [TS]

  wrapping intelligent races in this spin [TS]

  shell so that they can prepare the [TS]

  galaxy of the universe for them in some [TS]

  way but it's going to take them awhile [TS]

  so basically the the robot say okay [TS]

  we're going to slow you down for a few [TS]

  billion years while we do other stuff [TS]

  and then we'll take you back out and [TS]

  then party [TS]

  it's kind of a pre singularity novel [TS]

  right like you know your did the book [TS]

  leaves off at the point at which are [TS]

  sort of human humanities enter [TS]

  what ya popularly called the singularity [TS]

  and that's why the ending didn't bother [TS]

  me because I felt like you know it is an [TS]

  ending to say and he you know Tyler sort [TS]

  of makes his transition into this fourth [TS]

  stage of life and you know he and Diane [TS]

  go through the whatever-it-is the arch [TS]

  to this new world and and humanity makes [TS]

  the transition to yeah it's definitely [TS]

  an ending but it's still kind of a [TS]

  disappointing ending given the [TS]

  possibilities that there were at the [TS]

  beginning of the book a quarter of the [TS]

  way through the way in whatever that's [TS]

  always going to be the case though I [TS]

  mean like you know when you have so many [TS]

  ideas so many possibilities and as those [TS]

  get diminished I think oftentimes [TS]

  there's there is there is a big [TS]

  potential for disappointment there if I [TS]

  I just thought it felt it's not like [TS]

  we're going to hang out yeah like it can [TS]

  be you didn't bring a book it one day I [TS]

  just it's like to get towards the data [TS]

  moment it's like everything was [TS]

  interesting that the book starts to [TS]

  drain out the Martians killed Mars [TS]

  becomes more ordinary you get this sort [TS]

  of potboiler thing like why they're on [TS]

  the run seems really interesting until [TS]

  you discover that for arbitrary reasons [TS]

  the government is just killing all the [TS]

  people who have gone through this [TS]

  transformation you're like well what [TS]

  doesn't make sense when they kill him [TS]

  round them up using for their own [TS]

  purposes exist you know autopsy then [TS]

  whatever but the like they're killing [TS]

  them because they're something like what [TS]

  i don't get it i mean maybe let's get a [TS]

  little futurist at the end they sort of [TS]

  like dumped a whole bunch of info on [TS]

  your like this is happening in this [TS]

  tempted to do that little thai where [TS]

  they get the two narratives time [TS]

  together [TS]

  there's a lot of a lot of that it [TS]

  reminded me a little bit of Darwin's [TS]

  radio and the sequel to that by Greg [TS]

  bear which it's the same sort of thing [TS]

  which is throughout the book the [TS]

  government is sort of this and maybe I [TS]

  don't know maybe there's yeah some [TS]

  politics involved here but the [TS]

  government does lots of things and it's [TS]

  sort of a shadowy conspiracy or there [TS]

  they do it out of fear or their Craven [TS]

  politicians and you have a lot of the [TS]

  story that sort of being driven by kind [TS]

  of stupid government or politics and you [TS]

  know maybe that's realism but I i almost [TS]

  want a little more escapism I guess from [TS]

  a sci-fi novel and and 442 just come [TS]

  down to the fact that while they're a [TS]

  bunch of jerks in the government who are [TS]

  going to want to suppress this or use it [TS]

  for their own purposes but [TS]

  I'm not even doing that they just want [TS]

  to arbitrarily hunt the heroes for nope [TS]

  yeah because that's because if it's [TS]

  required for the end of the book [TS]

  well Darwin radio is kinda or the sequel [TS]

  to it is it's kinda like that to which [TS]

  meant them all down at once it's not [TS]

  good but I kind of like the other [TS]

  paranoia aspect in the beginning when [TS]

  everybody talks about being paranoid and [TS]

  they're like well I mean we kind of got [TS]

  a good reason to be paranoid right like [TS]

  some unknown force has totally wrapped [TS]

  our world and his bubble lookin is [TS]

  totally doing something to us that we [TS]

  don't really understand so you know [TS]

  paranoia seems to make it look I don't [TS]

  talk about borrowing because i know i [TS]

  did like the book until the ending I [TS]

  thought actually was very strong [TS]

  interesting and really unique voice and [TS]

  I was really compelled to get through it [TS]

  but like thinking about it now since [TS]

  I've got the perspective of two weeks to [TS]

  write a lot about it I feel like every [TS]

  almost everything in the book comes from [TS]

  somewhere else like it really starts to [TS]

  feel like a pastiche within the drawing [TS]

  main characters like you know i was just [TS]

  looking up i remember the Commonwealth [TS]

  Saget and avoid trilogy Peter F Hamilton [TS]

  series that are going on where it's you [TS]

  know portals between worlds in a certain [TS]

  kind of sophisticated Society out there [TS]

  hyperion which were talking about with [TS]

  portals between worlds that's kind of a [TS]

  common but it's still this arch thing [TS]

  once you walk back and forth between [TS]

  different places the Ringworld anybody [TS]

  think about Ringworld they talked about [TS]

  the fourth age business [TS]

  the Martians life-extending and whatever [TS]

  these people become protectors you know [TS]

  they have slightly different physical [TS]

  attributes their attitudes are changing [TS]

  their more protective when he stranger [TS]

  in a strange land [TS]

  yeah yeah this doesn't right Martian [TS]

  comes through which you can understand [TS]

  the echoes of stranger in a strange land [TS]

  like that's you know very well and it [TS]

  gets and get out to which is kind of a [TS]

  nice nice moment where the Martian wants [TS]

  to read all the Martian sci-fi yeah but [TS]

  it's in there is i mean there's more to [TS]

  but I I cus i wasn't it was all recycled [TS]

  or purposely borrowed but at the end as [TS]

  like that you know this is this is like [TS]

  10 or 15 different you know hunks of [TS]

  different books are you know even the [TS]

  the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars series [TS]

  where it's like we're going to terraform [TS]

  it's like let's take all of that and put [TS]

  in 25 pages [TS]

  we're gonna send these seed ships off [TS]

  and then if everything goes well they'll [TS]

  be settlers there who advanced [TS]

  definitely another help i have to say [TS]

  that there are two great ideas in this [TS]

  book and one of them is what would [TS]

  happen to society if if you know the [TS]

  Stars went out and there [TS]

  is perhaps a suggestion that that this [TS]

  generation on the planet would be the [TS]

  last because then the Sun will swell and [TS]

  that will be the end you get an [TS]

  eschatological been to ya and then the [TS]

  the other nice word and the other big [TS]

  idea here is this time bubble and [TS]

  ramifications of sending people through [TS]

  it and there's a really nice moment that [TS]

  has stuck with me in the last couple [TS]

  years since i read it which is that [TS]

  there's a slight launch malfunction in [TS]

  one of the ships that's going to Mars [TS]

  and it launches like 15 seconds too late [TS]

  which means that because of the speed of [TS]

  the time bubble that one ship is going [TS]

  to be like 10,000 years behind everyone [TS]

  else [TS]

  by the time it gets to Mars and then [TS]

  theory the civilization there will have [TS]

  completely forgotten about earth until [TS]

  these guys drop out of the world even [TS]

  though they left at the same time and [TS]

  the whole kind of deep time what it [TS]

  means to play off of tens of hundreds of [TS]

  thousands or millions of years and how [TS]

  quickly it happens to the people who are [TS]

  in the bubble [TS]

  I mean what a great idea so it's two [TS]

  great ideas and ya novel can probably [TS]

  suit subsist on one and he has to and [TS]

  what like glitter and glam was saying [TS]

  about like this being kind of a pastiche [TS]

  I mean I think that's you know what you [TS]

  say that and I think well that's a great [TS]

  premise for a book right there like you [TS]

  know from the perspective of the [TS]

  Martians who have like going along with [TS]

  their ordinary little life in a rocket [TS]

  drops out of this guy hey remember us [TS]

  and but I think at the same time as part [TS]

  of the galaxy book for yeah I i argue [TS]

  that they know every good for many good [TS]

  science fiction novels and novels and [TS]

  arts works in general all build on these [TS]

  things you know borrowed ideas from from [TS]

  what's gone before and I think you know [TS]

  and clearly in this case a lot of it is [TS]

  Maj you know by the by the you know the [TS]

  vocal call outs two things like Ray [TS]

  Bradbury and and Robert Heinlein and all [TS]

  that stuff so you know that's okay it's [TS]

  okay Scott do you think it's okay i do [TS]

  think it's okay and when i was reading [TS]

  the the book spin the scene where [TS]

  they're sitting on the lawn and the [TS]

  stars disappear reminded me very much of [TS]

  aiesec asthma short story nightfall [TS]

  anyone yeah really yeah [TS]

  yes which is a fantastic story if you [TS]

  haven't read it you should stop [TS]

  listening to this and read it right now [TS]

  yes should go back to your childhood and [TS]

  read it and then come back to exactly so [TS]

  the premises that this planet has sick [TS]

  sons and it's never experienced full [TS]

  darkness and through a confluence of [TS]

  things it's going to go through full [TS]

  darkness and what's gonna happen so you [TS]

  don't know what happens at the ended the [TS]

  darkness comes and he leaves it up to [TS]

  you [TS]

  although i think that they wrote a novel [TS]

  version as well that's yes robert [TS]

  silverberg maybe I don't but I very very [TS]

  doll [TS]

  well there goes the movie to the movie [TS]

  was also dull respectfully so that was [TS]

  another prestigious came through my mind [TS]

  and I thought I agree with Jason I think [TS]

  that the the two great ideas of the book [TS]

  kind of make up for the lackluster [TS]

  characters and the kind of disappointing [TS]

  ending although i haven't read the [TS]

  second book so I don't know how much [TS]

  more disappointing it can be you [TS]

  mentioned a few people mention the [TS]

  Martian I think the Martians a a really [TS]

  cool character this idea that we leave [TS]

  we let me fire off these rockets and [TS]

  then like a couple days later a guy [TS]

  comes back is the result of this whole [TS]

  civilization that's more advanced than [TS]

  hairs that is the result of those [TS]

  Rockets being fired off and he's human [TS]

  but he's been on Mars for so long that [TS]

  he's a he's essentially an alien he's [TS]

  looking at us with a with some sort of [TS]

  amusement and detachment which I thought [TS]

  was a great bet you know the great [TS]

  history of science fiction that he makes [TS]

  sure and notes that he's infertile even [TS]

  though no sex occurs between him and [TS]

  other people huh [TS]

  but it is noted because we need to have [TS]

  you know that's be set up for future [TS]

  books that the the two great ideas in [TS]

  this book and I think you're right there [TS]

  are two great is the problem with the [TS]

  ending is that neither of them time to [TS]

  the ending they're both concluded by the [TS]

  end of the book you might as well have [TS]

  just had this arch appear by magic for [TS]

  all the impact that the two great ideas [TS]

  are born out of here [TS]

  I mean you could have just had it be [TS]

  other than having a MacGuffin where they [TS]

  have to get somewhere in in the indian [TS]

  ocean you know there's no reason for it [TS]

  at all it could be equal that's why it's [TS]

  there has been goes right the spin goes [TS]

  away and that's it and now you're right [TS]

  now the universe is ready for you [TS]

  well crap what happens next right but [TS]

  that isn't the whole function of the [TS]

  spin that they put your planet in the [TS]

  spin and then they you get to a certain [TS]

  point they build these arches for you so [TS]

  that you can expand your civilization [TS]

  because one yeah its resources won't [TS]

  support you [TS]

  I think that's the idea but the spoon is [TS]

  magic and so the arch could be magic it [TS]

  could have just appeared [TS]

  there's no one would argue there's [TS]

  there's no reason [TS]

  and for the spin except as a great idea [TS]

  and by the conclusion of the book it [TS]

  goes away the book would have been much [TS]

  shorter if our kitchen yeah yeah i think [TS]

  that is a disappointing that [TS]

  interleaving plot would have been boring [TS]

  if they were just pretty much waiting [TS]

  around to catch a bus against your new [TS]

  planet this way [TS]

  number 18 in local though it will take [TS]

  several chapters they could call it roll [TS]

  will be a picaresque story if i recall [TS]

  right [TS]

  Wow all the words today this is this is [TS]

  a no your words i know you guys can read [TS]

  stop with the crazy words Scott we don't [TS]

  have you from it much longer do you have [TS]

  anything more you'd like to share about [TS]

  about spin [TS]

  oh uh try to think I think we've covered [TS]

  a life of knows everybody knows uplands [TS]

  uplands there's another aerostats though [TS]

  they're not Zeppelin's but the stuff [TS]

  that's floating the apps and low [TS]

  altitudes a whole region area of low of [TS]

  high-altitude balloon technology yeah [TS]

  because satellites can't exist so that [TS]

  sort of Zeppelin ask yes and I do love [TS]

  the fact that so at some point these [TS]

  giant cube devices appear above the [TS]

  poles of the planet hiring in space just [TS]

  like bricks don't exactly know [TS]

  everyone's freaked out by them and the [TS]

  Chinese decide well why don't we shoot [TS]

  some nuclear weapons and see what [TS]

  happens which I thought sounds like [TS]

  something the Chinese government would [TS]

  do ya sites to that they actually there [TS]

  has been a bit i think that has one of [TS]

  the best images of the book in that the [TS]

  when the new kits the the qubit it makes [TS]

  the sphere transparent for a while and [TS]

  they can see the stars wheeling past it [TS]

  at the rate of hundreds of thousands of [TS]

  years and that's when everybody freaks [TS]

  out right [TS]

  I say oh god what's happening and then [TS]

  they know that time is moving [TS]

  differently although they get the hint [TS]

  from e-rock with us and there were the [TS]

  Soviet yeah this with the Russian the [TS]

  astronauts entrants who were up there [TS]

  for several weeks and then they come [TS]

  down and it was like no time had passed [TS]

  and it was like you're crazy Russia's [TS]

  that's right Luke well I guess two of [TS]

  them died and one survives using the [TS]

  hospital and it's kind of a throwaway [TS]

  think I you know I this is not true but [TS]

  but i'll just say that when I'm reading [TS]

  it I I just written a novel for the [TS]

  first time [TS]

  and i read this book and I thought you [TS]

  know anybody can write a hugo winner of [TS]

  this is hugo winner and i don't mean [TS]

  that in a mean way because the ideas are [TS]

  great but the characters that's kind of [TS]

  mean it and the character yeah okay it's [TS]

  kind of mean the characters the [TS]

  character interaction [TS]

  I you know it didn't didn't seem special [TS]

  it-it-it this is a book that really gets [TS]

  carried i think by those big ideas and [TS]

  and I can see why you'd be disappointed [TS]

  at the end because it's true they think [TS]

  ideas are sort of played out at the end [TS]

  and then it sort of teasing you toward [TS]

  whatever the next thing in the series is [TS]

  going to be set in the universe but it's [TS]

  not a continuation of a previous story [TS]

  because that story is over [TS]

  come follow the characters you don't [TS]

  care about what and you know the Hugo's [TS]

  I don't think they base many of the [TS]

  Hugo's on actual writing frankly not [TS]

  there are well-written Hugo or award [TS]

  winners but one this and this isn't [TS]

  particularly poorly written either i [TS]

  mean you know it's got he can turn a [TS]

  phrase [TS]

  I mean sure it's a poorly written I just [TS]

  saying that it did it didn't strike me a [TS]

  lot of these a lot of especially the [TS]

  hugo books but books in general reading [TS]

  I don't think dang you know this person [TS]

  is a is really talented and and you know [TS]

  I don't know if I could ever hope to [TS]

  write something like that where span was [TS]

  like I know how this book it seemed to [TS]

  me like I understood how it was put [TS]

  together the structure seems very [TS]

  straightforward the character [TS]

  interaction seemed really [TS]

  straightforward i could see i mean i [TS]

  could sort of see how it was assembled [TS]

  and and that was kind of interesting [TS]

  that that do this is a UH award-winning [TS]

  novel and yet it didn't it didn't seem [TS]

  like magic right i mean the balls and [TS]

  like maybe you're standing you're [TS]

  standing will sort of next to a stage [TS]

  for a magic show and you can sign it [TS]

  kind of see what's going on behind the [TS]

  scenes but it still makes you appreciate [TS]

  the another craft that's willing [TS]

  everybody else and it's the penn and [TS]

  teller of Hugo winners it has a few [TS]

  things in common with this terms of hard [TS]

  science we should talk about these this [TS]

  pair it actually violates the law of the [TS]

  second book is always horrible the [TS]

  forges got forge of God anvil of stars [TS]

  by Greg bear so 20 was a 20-plus year [TS]

  old set of books and the second book [TS]

  involves I mean it's this thing where [TS]

  it's your first parent / scenario in the [TS]

  second book huge amounts of like physics [TS]

  and science extremely well-written [TS]

  compelling characters [TS]

  and it has i think there's a similar i [TS]

  was a bit of a similar feel like there's [TS]

  all but hey even like a more more [TS]

  happening service of the plot but anyway [TS]

  I think it might be it could be fun to [TS]

  talk about those especially relation to [TS]

  the issue of like good writing strong [TS]

  plot the first the two books a hugo [TS]

  winner right name happened I don't know [TS]

  so I i looked up what the other ebooks [TS]

  that spin was up against in the hugo the [TS]

  2006 Hugo's just because I was curious [TS]

  so its up against learning the world by [TS]

  chemical McLeod's which I can never just [TS]

  loud cloud whatever he's good writer i [TS]

  haven't read learning the world up a [TS]

  feast for crows by george RR martin ah [TS]

  but accelerometer co-vice charles stross [TS]

  oh and old man's war by well London is [TS]

  always better i would prefer i like [TS]

  salty old man's war right now is better [TS]

  book event where is good book but i [TS]

  think that i think that the Hugo's often [TS]

  you come up with the most original idea [TS]

  and you when Hugo and i have to say that [TS]

  the the time shifting between the the [TS]

  spin membrane and the rest of the [TS]

  universe in the whole colonizing Mars [TS]

  thing is a fantastic idea [TS]

  I agree I agree any ideas personal line [TS]

  right decor [TS]

  that's what I wanted at two ideas that [TS]

  the other books only had one that's [TS]

  right account for the heroes [TS]

  so next up on the agenda is yet another [TS]

  hugo winner where what we're doing cutie [TS]

  winners today [TS]

  Hyperion by Dan Simmons which was [TS]

  released in 1989 won the hugo in 1990 [TS]

  and uh i really i really like this i [TS]

  really like this book so is there [TS]

  anybody who doesn't love Hyperion except [TS]

  for the last spoiler horn [TS]

  two words up I we were the last two [TS]

  organizations did that they don't there [TS]

  are more of them haha yeah i got my [TS]

  opinion is like I just remember this [TS]

  thing we're talking about this an email [TS]

  it's that the stories the story about [TS]

  the million monkeys where this rich man [TS]

  develops a computer system this is from [TS]

  back in the fifties that will create you [TS]

  know every piece of literature and it [TS]

  produces this you know randomly and it's [TS]

  sort stuff out it produces the greatest [TS]

  story ever written except it's missing [TS]

  the last chapter and he tries to hire a [TS]

  writer friend of his to to finish it and [TS]

  I was like that is what I feel about [TS]

  with Hyperion is like the one of the [TS]

  finest most beautiful science-fiction [TS]

  novels that ever read I mean doing is [TS]

  terrific [TS]

  hyperion i think is gorgeous sort of [TS]

  like the sparrow [TS]

  oh yes which is its image again don't [TS]

  read number two in the sparrow I've read [TS]

  that is horrible but the Hyperion is a [TS]

  such a beautiful lyrical book and he [TS]

  tells so many different stories each of [TS]

  them as its own voice and tone your [TS]

  thinking who is this guy where did he [TS]

  come from how do you create all of these [TS]

  universes this you know all the [TS]

  different planets interactions this it's [TS]

  as if he is living in a parallel [TS]

  universe it so beautifully described and [TS]

  then what came after is so hideous [TS]

  there's no i don't i don't agree with [TS]

  that now but let's let's start at the [TS]

  beginning here Hyperion is structured in [TS]

  a way where there's a framing story [TS]

  which is these pilgrims going to the [TS]

  time tombs on the planet of Hyperion and [TS]

  then in between they are telling their [TS]

  individual tails so i guess you could [TS]

  liken it to something like lost its [TS]

  really much more like like The [TS]

  Canterbury Tales where you've got the [TS]

  individual tales of the pilgrims on [TS]

  their way that's sort of that the [TS]

  concept really and it's a and a problem [TS]

  i think from the perspective of the [TS]

  ending is that this book is about the [TS]

  stories told by the people on their [TS]

  journey to the time tombs and then they [TS]

  get there and that's the end right [TS]

  because that's not what this book is [TS]

  about it's about it is in a way about [TS]

  the setup but it's also about the that [TS]

  you know learning who these people are [TS]

  on this journey and as that it is cut it [TS]

  is brilliant and it is brilliantly [TS]

  written it's not just a bunch of good [TS]

  ideas in this book is over [TS]

  going with good ideas but it's really s [TS]

  Simmons is such a great writer and I'd [TS]

  actually read some others of his stuff [TS]

  before i read this but it's it's just so [TS]

  wonderfully written in so many great [TS]

  ideas but the ending has the exact [TS]

  opposite problem of spin is rather than [TS]

  being wound down and disinterested in [TS]

  the character huh [TS]

  you are incredibly wound up really [TS]

  interested in the characters and then it [TS]

  ends there's nowhere to go it's in rate [TS]

  I wanted to throw the book across the [TS]

  room I kept saying he can't resolve this [TS]

  in the next three pages he can't resolve [TS]

  that the next two pages he didn't [TS]

  resolve it the following the Aryan is [TS]

  how it was resolved i am actually angry [TS]

  thinking about it it was a beautiful [TS]

  book and I loved reading it and just [TS]

  from the very beginning just the number [TS]

  and amount of ideas the pre story the [TS]

  first one that gets told is riveting and [TS]

  all the way through and then you get to [TS]

  the end and it you're you're suddenly [TS]

  wily coyote hanging over the cliff with [TS]

  a little yipeeeeee sign nowhere to go [TS]

  but down [TS]

  well or or you can read the sequel which [TS]

  glenwood tell you this is a book you [TS]

  have to stand alone object that should [TS]

  be next should have you had a new law [TS]

  that assessment Simmons does this too [TS]

  because i read a book of his called [TS]

  ileum and yeah i think that I got to the [TS]

  end it turned out it was two books it [TS]

  was one book split into two you get to [TS]

  the end of ilium and it's like it's like [TS]

  you're not even at the anti-venom all [TS]

  you're like you're like and the battle [TS]

  begun [TS]

  we-well wait what the yeah and I i gotta [TS]

  say i have not read anything by him [TS]

  sense because i was so turned off by [TS]

  that approach and yet i did read the [TS]

  Hyperion Books you go into lord of the [TS]

  rings and you know what you're getting [TS]

  into [TS]

  yeah I think I think I knew that [TS]

  Hyperion was a to was a to at the time [TS]

  to book series and I was gonna probably [TS]

  have to read the second i went i wasn't [TS]

  i wanted to the i went to the broke [TS]

  cycle knowing what I was getting into [TS]

  and that I say you know a years-long [TS]

  investment in time I i read Lord of the [TS]

  Rings and I don't know what happens [TS]

  after photo gets the ring it all turns [TS]

  out well though right yeah it's [TS]

  everybody's happy like i was wearing [TS]

  tonight [TS]

  rivendell and then wait a minute photo [TS]

  gets the ring woods boiler horn [TS]

  yeah well I think I mean I PS contains [TS]

  spoilers Lord of the Rings it [TS]

  Arthur bruised his jaw so Simmons you [TS]

  know it is this it's the far future and [TS]

  they're they're always throw in ideas [TS]

  like the all thing which is this like a [TS]

  collaboration of mines and of artificial [TS]

  intelligences and and they've got the [TS]

  farcaster portals which let you step [TS]

  through from one place to another which [TS]

  leads to the natural naturally the [TS]

  super-rich would have a have houses [TS]

  where each room was on a different [TS]

  planet that is far Kelly awesome that [TS]

  there would be a river that runs across [TS]

  multiple planets and through portals and [TS]

  we'll take boats down the river how [TS]

  crazy is that you have to say like one [TS]

  of Simmons is great abilities like he [TS]

  can be incredibly self-indulgent writer [TS]

  and some of his writing I cannot stand [TS]

  is soaked lying and do that but like the [TS]

  best of it is he has you know I don't [TS]

  actually know exactly as background but [TS]

  he must have been a classicist or he's [TS]

  read everything written before you know [TS]

  the year 500 CEO because his command of [TS]

  the past is so extraordinary and he can [TS]

  transmute that into both the characters [TS]

  within the novel being aware of the fact [TS]

  that the stuff they're living through is [TS]

  an allusion to the past they create the [TS]

  river toughest because they call it at [TS]

  this not because they forgot what it [TS]

  means will because that's what they [TS]

  remember but you still get that ringing [TS]

  of like you know Plato in there as well [TS]

  I felt like Hyperion was like a at the [TS]

  final exam for a liberal arts education [TS]

  it every once in while you say hey I [TS]

  know what that means i get that reaction [TS]

  when i was when i was in school i was [TS]

  like my second year of college some pro [TS]

  hipster thuy band came out with an album [TS]

  called cloud cuckoo-land and I got the [TS]

  reference to Aristophanes the birds and [TS]

  I felt like my entire education had been [TS]

  justified at that point because I got a [TS]

  pop culture reference that eluded to [TS]

  classical education from some band but [TS]

  never sides in the where they know file [TS]

  yeah where are they now file and that's [TS]

  that's how I felt really high period may [TS]

  have gotten one in ten references but I [TS]

  felt incredibly smug everyday it's john [TS]

  keats he becomes a major character in [TS]

  the sequel by the way John Key is a [TS]

  pretty major character in this one too [TS]

  well I suppose he is he's like the [TS]

  viewpoint characters sequel which is [TS]

  strange but disciple and then in the [TS]

  Shrike the Shrike is probably like the [TS]

  tree of pain and the [TS]

  it was around and the Shrike I mean [TS]

  again with the eye again with the ideas [TS]

  so not only is Hyperion really a set of [TS]

  really strong novellas I mean they're [TS]

  they're more than short stories so it's [TS]

  like a series of novellas with an [TS]

  incredibly strong backbone but you also [TS]

  have this idea all the ideas and the [TS]

  Shrike is I think of across all four [TS]

  books even though i really hated them as [TS]

  in crippling the series further and [TS]

  further its form looks yeah they're not [TS]

  to drink a lot of Hyperion Endymion and [TS]

  rise i'm not going to read any of them [TS]

  out of spite of you I well actually I [TS]

  think you might like the fall of [TS]

  hyperion I liked it and it's guys have [TS]

  an ending it is not horrible the fall of [TS]

  Hyperion is fine but it's Endymion and [TS]

  rise and Damien feel like feeble-minded [TS]

  sequels written by someone else [TS]

  compared to the narrative richness of [TS]

  the first book but you're right a second [TS]

  those six not the six essentially [TS]

  novellas the six tails of the six [TS]

  characters in that in the book including [TS]

  one that we actually i had already read [TS]

  and what was an award-winning novell I [TS]

  believe all I free remembering serie [TS]

  great great stuff and then and then [TS]

  you've got this journey to the time [TS]

  tombs and the Shrike and a strike is [TS]

  this mythical but not mythical character [TS]

  who appears and and kills you except [TS]

  when he doesn't and the time tombs are [TS]

  one of the things that I really love [TS]

  about this is the time tombs are a [TS]

  unknown structure from the future that [TS]

  is passing backward in time and then at [TS]

  some point in the past they will open [TS]

  contain and they contain things from the [TS]

  future which is just as real head [TS]

  spinner of an idea that you're watching [TS]

  an object that's traveling backward in [TS]

  time is a little like a particular [TS]

  happen there's a book called the [TS]

  chronoliths by that by robert charles [TS]

  wilson to its been i think i think maybe [TS]

  it is where it's the same thing where [TS]

  you kind of turn your head you're like [TS]

  oh this is from the future and now has [TS]

  come back to the past [TS]

  it is like a head scratcher yeah I think [TS]

  everybody make it used is it a visit of [TS]

  weapon your it's unclear who's in charge [TS]

  of the universe you know this is [TS]

  uncommon making my snuggle sandwich [TS]

  references as my wife but you know in in [TS]

  the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy [TS]

  universe there actually is a guy in [TS]

  charge of the galaxy and you meet him at [TS]

  one point is very is very amusing and [TS]

  not quite what you'd expect in here it's [TS]

  like you know there are eventually I [TS]

  remember how far is that series of [TS]

  novels you understand that there are [TS]

  vast powers at work that it's not a [TS]

  local phenomenon a galaxy found [TS]

  something that's almost fundamental to [TS]

  nature itself there's a fight at the end [TS]

  of the universe and that's actually if I [TS]

  can talk about this little dudes like [TS]

  double spoiler alerts they're the [TS]

  problem with the Hyperion payer and the [TS]

  Endymion pair and that you can read this [TS]

  anywhere you read about Endymion is that [TS]

  he writes the history of red Hyperion [TS]

  you read fall of Hyperion and it's a [TS]

  self-contained set of stories then you [TS]

  jump 200-something years in the future [TS]

  and it's like a whole other ball of wax [TS]

  and that thing you read in Hyperion it [TS]

  was so beautiful [TS]

  well it wasn't really like that in that [TS]

  physical description that's in the book [TS]

  that physical description was wrong but [TS]

  you can't do that [TS]

  I understand he wanted to change the [TS]

  narrative but you can't say something in [TS]

  Hyperion that someone physically saw is [TS]

  now described differently i'm like i can [TS]

  pick up the other book and read the [TS]

  description is the book telling me the [TS]

  other copy of the physical book in [TS]

  reality is wrong so that it's i would [TS]

  just say well it's kinda like back to [TS]

  the future to think I i don't disagree [TS]

  with a go back over it and like wait a [TS]

  second that's not exactly what I'm gonna [TS]

  get the reward but I don't think see I'm [TS]

  gonna argue though and this is a [TS]

  recurring theme about sequels letting [TS]

  you down that it doesn't change how [TS]

  great this book is no and I think if you [TS]

  go in knowing that it that it doesn't [TS]

  really have an ending in that there's [TS]

  another book required to resolve the [TS]

  tales of the of the people it is a great [TS]

  ride [TS]

  Greg I mean when you agree absolutely [TS]

  unquestionably it's a terrific book I [TS]

  just wish there was another chapter we [TS]

  we shouldn't ones that are not a whole [TS]

  other book not three months just one [TS]

  more chapter to finish the freakin story [TS]

  that i started we should set up a list [TS]

  of ultimately start developing a list of [TS]

  the books like the great not just like [TS]

  greatest you know sci-fi which is hard [TS]

  to categorize but it's like you know the [TS]

  sparrow Hyperion and dune everyone [TS]

  should read them if they're interested [TS]

  in sci-fi in the least are trying to get [TS]

  into it like these three books are [TS]

  introduction to different aspects of [TS]

  sci-fi and they're fantastically [TS]

  interesting to read that's actually how [TS]

  I read Hyperion dune is some friends [TS]

  were appalled that I haven't read them [TS]

  and so they walked me through the hugo [TS]

  list instead circle them said this one [TS]

  this one this one this one [TS]

  I've been reading science fiction my [TS]

  whole life and I hadn't read some of the [TS]

  you know towering classics of the genre [TS]

  here's my review of dune it picks up [TS]

  after the after the first 200 pages [TS]

  starts good at a dozen going to 12 [TS]

  minutes but in the desert yeah once [TS]

  using the desert it's a whole different [TS]

  book sure end of Barrow very Doria [TS]

  wrestles the sparrow which we should [TS]

  talk about it some point is it is one of [TS]

  the best book I've ever read [TS]

  however I will say that I think the last [TS]

  hundred pages of it feels like she [TS]

  realized she needed to finish and get it [TS]

  to a publisher and a lot of her [TS]

  description and detailed drops out and [TS]

  it becomes about about plot resolution [TS]

  yet but doesn't change the fact that I [TS]

  love that book it is a hit endings are [TS]

  talkin i mean III never look any further [TS]

  than a real Stephenson is one of my [TS]

  favorite writers yeah it's very early a [TS]

  it seemed to have some sort of [TS]

  congenital ending problem wishes kiddo [TS]

  crash he said that he right on the hands [TS]

  he said that yeah I don't write I'm a [TS]

  competent enough writer to write the [TS]

  ending i intend I wanted him that way [TS]

  he's wrong about that one work then [TS]

  exactly yeah i mean snow crash is a [TS]

  fantastic weekend i think one of the one [TS]

  of the best books in the last you know [TS]

  30 years but it's just yes that it has [TS]

  great it's great all the way up until [TS]

  about like the last chapter and you're [TS]

  just like wait what [TS]

  it's over soon okay chase giant screens [TS]

  vital organs destruction of the [TS]

  government helicopter chase mafia zodiac [TS]

  is the only book he's ever written that [TS]

  is actually a coherent story with a [TS]

  beginning a middle and an end in sight [TS]

  and I've ever do that if you take the [TS]

  entire baroque cycle from beginning to [TS]

  finish that it takes one giant story [TS]

  which actually has a pretty decent [TS]

  ending it talk about taking 200 pages [TS]

  400 500 pages to get going i loved it [TS]

  you gotta warm up with three guys on [TS]

  Twitter page novel to get to the end [TS]

  I've tried twice to start it and I have [TS]

  failed i got a little for the second [TS]

  time it's worth it's like absolutely i [TS]

  got to be so the undersea and I was like [TS]

  all right I don't know what it is worth [TS]

  that I love that I and i also love the [TS]

  fact that I'm more sure to hook you to [TS]

  hook you he said he says you know early [TS]

  on I'm gonna have a big pirate battle [TS]

  and then there's like not that it has [TS]

  nothing to do with basically the rest of [TS]

  the book but you know he throws it in [TS]

  the beginning to get you hooked a little [TS]

  minutes a oh I'll ride for 3,000 pages I [TS]

  really dragged out and I was 405 ok now [TS]

  we're going [TS]

  yeah like two takes that long it takes [TS]

  at least halfway through the first look [TS]

  there I was just like okay now we're [TS]

  getting to it and then the second book [TS]

  is fantastic i thought my favorite of [TS]

  the entire series but yeah I fingers [TS]

  went numb and in the ice storm swept in [TS]

  and i just had to climb back down I [TS]

  couldn't do it [TS]

  I i well knowing that there's 3,000 at [TS]

  least you knew there were 3,000 pages [TS]

  but we got to the end of this story as [TS]

  opposed to something like Hyperion where [TS]

  you know you don't know that going in a [TS]

  hurry and it can be kind of upsetting [TS]

  and it's nice if you're really desperate [TS]

  for something to read and you're like oh [TS]

  there's a drought of books coming out [TS]

  that I want to do something you just you [TS]

  just sink yourself in that that's how i [TS]

  feel about that about the george RR [TS]

  martin I've got that look [TS]

  fourth book or whatever it is in his [TS]

  series and I'm just that still salted [TS]

  away for a lean time because i know that [TS]

  it's gonna be forever before regrets the [TS]

  next one oh yeah and the best part of [TS]

  that is you'll have to read the first [TS]

  three before you can even read that just [TS]

  you remember what happened doing these [TS]

  people again and and it's funny talking [TS]

  about Stephenson we may not get to [TS]

  Michael shape on today I don't know I [TS]

  mean neal stephenson I I think zodiac is [TS]

  a really good thing [TS]

  Greg mentioned it that I i think it [TS]

  holds together and I think it's a really [TS]

  good piece of work and i really like the [TS]

  diamond age actually i'm not sure i [TS]

  think snow crash the first half of snow [TS]

  crash is great but then I feel like it [TS]

  kinda repeats itself until it's like a [TS]

  record [TS]

  really you know sort of skipping it [TS]

  until it's somebody listen up the needle [TS]

  at the end to you know the first half is [TS]

  great and then it kind of falls apart I [TS]

  wouldn't dug up the big you his first [TS]

  book and they're amusing scenes but it's [TS]

  it's not worth going to find acceptable [TS]

  with a brain surgery [TS]

  it's the one that is likely candidate no [TS]

  no that that was the one written under a [TS]

  pseudonym that came later and I get [TS]

  what's called think the student named [TS]

  off top even break hehe yeah the the big [TS]

  you is written under his name but it was [TS]

  something he wrote in college and it's a [TS]

  satire / parody of of like a mill [TS]

  college where the it's a like an office [TS]

  block that the college takes place in [TS]

  its just one giant building and there [TS]

  were some nice scenes in there were some [TS]

  really great scenes but on the whole it [TS]

  was just a big mass zodiac is the one [TS]

  where I i read zodiac after snow crash [TS]

  and I said wow this is great and it was [TS]

  you know setting the present day in [TS]

  boston and there's a guy with a red [TS]

  after nice the eco spiderman spiderman i [TS]

  also learned I learned what to do if you [TS]

  get pc people arity pcp poisoning no no [TS]

  uh-uh shukaku charcoal if you swallow [TS]

  Germany PCP is not the polygonal port [TS]

  but know that we see what's there is a [TS]

  pollution and the individual dust [TS]

  yeah maybe right we're just gonna get [TS]

  along in the book it's pcbs PCB and you [TS]

  chew carpet charcoal which later turned [TS]

  out he was with the accuracy and I [TS]

  learned a valuable life skill from the [TS]

  book if you have if you hadn't talked to [TS]

  create ways you can eat some charcoal [TS]

  thank you tell you can tell by the [TS]

  backend charcoal charcoal is tasty [TS]

  alright so we talk about the image [TS]

  policemen's union woman new yeah I'm [TS]

  refresh my memory on it which is all [TS]

  about honestly say i'm reading whenever [TS]

  you make a peanut you can use it was a [TS]

  couple years ago when i read it but I i [TS]

  loved it when i read it it was one of my [TS]

  favorite books that you're actually [TS]

  recommended to my dad i recommend a lot [TS]

  of books to my dad but as he's Jewish i [TS]

  thought he and in like sort of you re [TS]

  stuff I thought he would get a kick out [TS]

  of it [TS]

  yeah so it's and it's it's it 11 Hugo it [TS]

  is a an alt history story which is why I [TS]

  think it qualifies set in late forties I [TS]

  believe her early not notice it's is no [TS]

  no it's later no it's uh it's modern age [TS]

  is elimination day [TS]

  yeah this is a vergence period is in the [TS]

  early forties that's really growing [TS]

  changes right they create a place for [TS]

  all the Jews in the world to go because [TS]

  Israel is doesn't work is destroyed and [TS]

  so they all end up in Sitka Alaska and [TS]

  it's 50 years later and there's one of [TS]

  these like Hong Kong with a hundred-year [TS]

  least there's a 50-year lease on the [TS]

  space the space is about to be vacated [TS]

  which means that all the Jews in Sitka [TS]

  are having to find somewhere else [TS]

  somewhere else in the world it's sort of [TS]

  a new diaspora and in this there's a [TS]

  murder mystery that's told from the [TS]

  perspective of the policeman who are [TS]

  working in the last days of this Jewish [TS]

  enclaves existence if you got to have a [TS]

  Shamus if you've got a murder mystery [TS]

  you got you got you got to have it and [TS]

  there's mysticism in it too so it's not [TS]

  just the old history there [TS]

  the whole idea of a mystical kind of but [TS]

  it's just such a well-done homage to you [TS]

  know youryour Raymond Chandler Dashiell [TS]

  and Hammett style detective novels oh [TS]

  yeah it's 24 tits or LLL construct [TS]

  hard-boiled detective story except that [TS]

  it's got this quacky alt universe [TS]

  setting right which is that I mean it [TS]

  the fact that the you know one of the [TS]

  best writers in the English language is [TS]

  playing in John was like this delight me [TS]

  to no end that he he is he [TS]

  you know you put him on the list he is I [TS]

  would fight to the end of the earth to [TS]

  say that Michael Chabon is one of the [TS]

  best writers period in the English [TS]

  language if not be besties in the top [TS]

  five or ten and he writes young adult [TS]

  and sci-fi and think I'm gonna handle [TS]

  even and comic books and things that are [TS]

  kind of asked you and mashing up John [TS]

  Roos and then doing amazing man won a [TS]

  Pulitzer to ya for kept for Kavalier and [TS]

  clay would use this is fantastic but it [TS]

  has the same capital and clay has this [TS]

  thing that it stung me when I read it [TS]

  and it it also stunned me in English [TS]

  policemen is uh he's not writing as a [TS]

  magical realism is running fully in the [TS]

  alternative world that it creates a very [TS]

  realistically defined world that [TS]

  parallels real development scattering [TS]

  clay it's you know it's a comic but it's [TS]

  a different duh set of which comic book [TS]

  heroes became big right instead of [TS]

  Superman it's the escapist and writing [TS]

  that book there's a scene that I [TS]

  remember a time it wasn't showing that i [TS]

  was just so stunned by it because you're [TS]

  reading along and he goes to the [TS]

  cemetery and is trying to essentially [TS]

  commune with his stead have been sort of [TS]

  our main character whatever main [TS]

  characters turkey with is the dead music [TS]

  magician who trained him and he said [TS]

  he's not going to show up he's not going [TS]

  to show up and he didn't show up and [TS]

  then he turns around there is and you're [TS]

  like oh wow he just want to just do [TS]

  there [TS]

  he took me out of this be no it isn't [TS]

  easter said we're in the real world [TS]

  people die and there's nothing else and [TS]

  then over here is the ghost and the same [TS]

  thing use policeman where you're you're [TS]

  sort of like this guy is not the Machine [TS]

  he's not the Messiah this is all sort of [TS]

  fever dream and and all you know there's [TS]

  all these political plans and all this [TS]

  other stuff going on like oh my goodness [TS]

  gracious [TS]

  he is perhaps you may be less i am maybe [TS]

  but he has the the scene when he when [TS]

  the wife of the of the rabbi of the [TS]

  litter alli is recounting to the [TS]

  detective that you know how our son [TS]

  visited her right and the son who is may [TS]

  or may not be the Messiah is able to eat [TS]

  she thinks he's overweight woman and she [TS]

  looks at him again and realizes that he [TS]

  has no he just made her perceived that [TS]

  and you like what what is that is that [TS]

  you know a godlike power [TS]

  what is his role in Redemption and and [TS]

  it's just it just breaks you out of this [TS]

  hole you know realistic all history into [TS]

  something that's like magical realism it [TS]

  isn't [TS]

  Wow and that's the end of that seems the [TS]

  podcast looks like everyone's just [TS]

  wrapped it right now you have that [TS]

  moment where you bought into the premise [TS]

  and said this is a wacky premise but now [TS]

  it's being held [TS]

  it's being handled in a real-world [TS]

  certain way and then there's that twist [TS]

  where he says ah but what if they're [TS]

  right and this guy is was is the Messiah [TS]

  and uh it's like the end of Miracle on [TS]

  thirty-fourth Street and the red calf [TS]

  has been born because there's a whole [TS]

  thing about the breeding the cows to get [TS]

  the red calf that's truly have a redcap [TS]

  you know that's really good yet know [TS]

  that you know I know it's kit comes up [TS]

  in the goddamn spirit as well there's a [TS]

  meme the red heifer must be bored the [TS]

  red heifer the red heifer in in hyper [TS]

  like nothing amusing that there's a [TS]

  messiah but not until Endymion [TS]

  ah but you know shape on the characters [TS]

  are great you do have that cannot neared [TS]

  well the pop and his partner [TS]

  I mean he's literally you know every [TS]

  private I you know from hardwell crime [TS]

  fiction right yeah he's got the ex-wife [TS]

  and you know he's got you know the [TS]

  partner drinking problem drinking [TS]

  problem chest problems got a terrible [TS]

  chest problem huh what's got his court [TS]

  right like every every detective always [TS]

  has there there's their little quirk and [TS]

  i love i love how well that ship on a [TS]

  sort of mixes the the language that he [TS]

  uses in like the the the terminology in [TS]

  the vocab [TS]

  very mixing finish with in such a way [TS]

  that it's so seamlessly comes off [TS]

  sounding like hard-boiled detective [TS]

  speak right in the same way that you [TS]

  might call it on like a heater or [TS]

  something like it's a kind of all bleeds [TS]

  together in it totally works [TS]

  I just found that it so well done and so [TS]

  engrossing in the way that he just you [TS]

  know this is what would happen if you [TS]

  had put all these that's very clunky an [TS]

  orange people like that in there [TS]

  yeah and there's I mean it that in [TS]

  comparison with the the whole you know [TS]

  substituting sort of instead of the the [TS]

  Jews having to deal with the a you know [TS]

  Palestinians who are their they're [TS]

  sharing this land with the Native [TS]

  Americans yielding all sorts of you know [TS]

  obviously parallel disputes and and sort [TS]

  of interesting meshing of the the native [TS]

  religion and Judaism and all these these [TS]

  conflicts and anyway you know and they [TS]

  want the land and so does the American [TS]

  government right right is reminded of [TS]

  interesting things about the setting is [TS]

  that the the US government is basically [TS]

  said it's funny because of course we [TS]

  have a US government that's a supporter [TS]

  of Israel and has been since it was [TS]

  founded and in this novel the US [TS]

  government is basically telling all the [TS]

  Jews on its soil get beat it [TS]

  we're done with you get you know it is a [TS]

  very stark contrast and the end you know [TS]

  everybody's afraid of being left behind [TS]

  and being essentially stateless which is [TS]

  you know crazy but that's the situation [TS]

  that they're in it such a contrast yeah [TS]

  it's me it's a great term as you get it [TS]

  right about that you gotta write about [TS]

  at some level like the Palestinians or [TS]

  stateless people [TS]

  yeah but you know with this sort of [TS]

  unfamiliar place in the Jews to create [TS]

  Israel what things to the Jewish people [TS]

  are the Disraeli styling pioneers what [TS]

  did they do to make their state and in [TS]

  this case they were totally powerless [TS]

  like here's the notes godforsaken place [TS]

  the frozen north and and you know make [TS]

  something of it which they do for 50 [TS]

  years and then then get out [TS]

  mu mu nu no no more red how not the half [TS]

  are not the half four different new [TS]

  alright we're communing with our with [TS]

  our Judaism apparently if you say so [TS]

  I'll run that by my wife Paula mentions [TS]

  written [TS]

  ah yes now you're speaking German prison [TS]

  or is it a little a little a little of [TS]

  both you can talk one way you can talk [TS]

  to the other [TS]

  alright Michael Chabon I'll throw it out [TS]

  their Road up young adult novel in 2002 [TS]

  called Summerland which is fantastic and [TS]

  features a fairyland where the fairies [TS]

  all play baseball [TS]

  it's always summer time and it is also [TS]

  rotate a strange little book called the [TS]

  applicable final solution about a [TS]

  basically a detective a retired older [TS]

  detective who may be familiar if you've [TS]

  read a lot of detective fiction [TS]

  uh-huh and he wrote he wrote a small [TS]

  novel called gentlemen of the road world [TS]

  as we truly believe he said he's working [TS]

  title with something like jews in Asia [TS]

  and basically an accident it its attack [TS]

  or a ski is an action book and they've [TS]

  got swords and they fight and they do [TS]

  you think they're gonna die and then [TS]

  they don't die and you think they're [TS]

  gonna die and they don't die and it's [TS]

  it's hugely fun I mean that's the thing [TS]

  about this guy is is his books are not [TS]

  snoozes they are they're all really good [TS]

  so you know I i actually just read his [TS]

  up essay collection manhood for amateurs [TS]

  and and that was great too so he's a [TS]

  he's one of my favorites and if you're [TS]

  going to start [TS]

  I mean I guess you start with this one [TS]

  and you start with the Amazing [TS]

  Adventures of Kavalier and clay which [TS]

  you won the Pulitzer for which is a [TS]

  terrific masterwork of a book a parallel [TS]

  book to that by the way is Carter beats [TS]

  the devil out nearly the same time [TS]

  finish tonight right that totally [TS]

  underrated book and there are many [TS]

  things in common I think they're written [TS]

  almost the same you know the same here [TS]

  as Kavalier and clay but very very [TS]

  underrated book again again with the [TS]

  magical realism a little bit of it you [TS]

  know a little goes a long way and that's [TS]

  a Glen David gold that's right that's [TS]

  rather that I have a copy that i picked [TS]

  this one of the ones i picked up just [TS]

  off a whim you know looking at the [TS]

  bookshelf and now you know i was at some [TS]

  point had like magicians was a very big [TS]

  interest of mine and and it looked it [TS]

  has great you know cover and sort of [TS]

  this old-timey [TS]

  Houdini era poster it's just I don't [TS]

  know it's something about it intrigued [TS]

  me and I picked it up and read it on [TS]

  women and it was fantastic i would say [TS]

  the two you can pick a better claim one [TS]

  hand car beats the devil on the other [TS]

  and the very next books to read [TS]

  back-to-back they're very similar [TS]

  fundamental nature of the different [TS]

  writing styles both incredibly good [TS]

  reads all right I that's a good [TS]

  transition for me to ask you anything [TS]

  that you've been reading or that you [TS]

  would like to recommend a massive [TS]

  incomparable list listening audience I I [TS]

  keep putting books down I never do this [TS]

  and I've been reading books at the [TS]

  suggestion of people on Twitter and on [TS]

  this podcast and I got put down week i [TS]

  could not proceed through weekend was [TS]

  infamous for something no info quick i [TS]

  have now you know like I've got but [TS]

  haven't read way to come by robert [TS]

  sawyer i mentioned that was a hugo [TS]

  nominee and that's the blind as the [TS]

  blind girl right with the emergent yeah [TS]

  internet I having trouble with the [TS]

  windup girl to I'm partway into that and [TS]

  I know we talked about that before [TS]

  it's very it's good it's very difficult [TS]

  time finding it's such a it's that it's [TS]

  the parts of snow crash or like the era [TS]

  the diamond age like this is well where [TS]

  there's parts that are so unpleasant and [TS]

  gritty actually parts of the girl with [TS]

  the dragon tattoo same thing it's like [TS]

  you're like man if I can get through [TS]

  this part maybe I could read more of it [TS]

  but i'm not sure i have the wherewithal [TS]

  to like get through all this incredible [TS]

  gritty dirty sweaty awfulness but i will [TS]

  try [TS]

  alright Dan i just read spin some kept i [TS]

  can't recommend this book enough but I i [TS]

  just bought a book [TS]

  um I know it's exciting i don't usually [TS]

  buys i usually get stuff out the library [TS]

  but i just i had to head to finish been [TS]

  so i have been able to read this book [TS]

  that i bought last week which i bought [TS]

  at a book signing [TS]

  while i was previously california by one [TS]

  of my favorite it's not my favorite [TS]

  author was a woman named Lois McMaster [TS]

  Bujold write science fiction and fantasy [TS]

  and this book is the latest in quarter [TS]

  series called before cozy Gonzaga which [TS]

  is kind of a space opera / got pretty [TS]

  much everything like her books what's [TS]

  greatest for books running run the gamut [TS]

  in terms of genre [TS]

  of them are sort of more space adventure [TS]

  ii some of them are war stories there [TS]

  are mysteries romances like it basically [TS]

  follows one particular character through [TS]

  his entire life and she said during the [TS]

  reading that I went to that she is very [TS]

  much modeled after CS foresters Horatio [TS]

  Hornblower series and it definitely has [TS]

  a vibe like that but it's all set in [TS]

  space anyway sushi just released the [TS]

  most recent novel in the series which is [TS]

  called cryo burn which i'm not going to [TS]

  read it because i was finishing spins I [TS]

  could talk to you guys about it so it's [TS]

  sitting there on my desk taunting me and [TS]

  report back on that next time i will but [TS]

  i will say anyone who is not read her [TS]

  series of foreclosing so i got i highly [TS]

  recommend it and where we start with [TS]

  that one of the wall so it's kind of [TS]

  tricky because they're there's actually [TS]

  a pair of books that she wrote first [TS]

  that deal with the parents of the of the [TS]

  person who goes on to be the main [TS]

  character the rest of the series but if [TS]

  you would like to start with the [TS]

  Warriors apprentice which is depending [TS]

  on how you look at it the first or third [TS]

  book in the series and believable [TS]

  available as a free book it's available [TS]

  as a free even gonna baney library which [TS]

  is one reason i suggested friend is free [TS]

  first ones free mmm first book in the [TS]

  series issue except unless it's Hyperion [TS]

  are doing or something like that after [TS]

  pay for it i forgot one we ever got one [TS]

  how to live safely in the science [TS]

  fictional universes always reading it i [TS]

  am reading that too and we will be [TS]

  talking about that a future podcast i [TS]

  assume perhaps so by Charles you i'm [TS]

  reading that right now [TS]

  fascinating it is very strange yes or a [TS]

  strange book [TS]

  Greg are you reading anything i'm kind [TS]

  of impressed that I got a quiet hour [TS]

  just to record this podcast my own would [TS]

  it [TS]

  anthem has haunted my nightstand for [TS]

  what two years now but it on my right [TS]

  side is holding everything down [TS]

  that's true that's helping i will read [TS]

  anything Neal Stephenson rights [TS]

  including like in the beginning was the [TS]

  command line and mother earth [TS]

  motherboard and I just haven't been able [TS]

  to get to it [TS]

  I for this twice and I was surprised the [TS]

  second reading held up very very well [TS]

  and I actually in some ways liked it [TS]

  better because it was less confusion and [TS]

  suspense about certain things that [TS]

  confuse me and suspended me the first [TS]

  time every time i'm confused by a book [TS]

  that i enjoy i'll go back and reread it [TS]

  just because you're not so hung up on [TS]

  the details of what's going on and [TS]

  you're taking in the bigger picture i am [TS]

  reading [TS]

  I i am reading how to live safely [TS]

  science fictional universe i just [TS]

  finished blackout by connie willis which [TS]

  is recommended by Dan more'n the sequel [TS]

  to to Hugo winners actually to say [TS]

  nothing of the dog and domesday book but [TS]

  I in the theme of today's show it is [TS]

  really one [TS]

  really one [TS]

  half of a larger novel or the good news [TS]

  is that the part second part all-clear [TS]

  came out this week or last week but not [TS]

  gonna get get ahold of that recently and [TS]

  I knew that going in so i knew i was [TS]

  sort of going to read have to see me to [TS]

  call i was much better than when I did [TS]

  not know that and in like got closer and [TS]

  closer to the end of what is actually a [TS]

  pretty large book yeah I'm started [TS]

  thinking how that hello they ever gonna [TS]

  get active and it's funny because it is [TS]

  you can sort of see where it's going [TS]

  with the science fictional aspect of the [TS]

  plot was behind where his story but it [TS]

  is a historical it's really a historical [TS]

  novel about the London Blitz that [TS]

  happens to have some time travelers who [TS]

  are witnessing it and you see it through [TS]

  their eyes but it's not i mean this the [TS]

  point of the story is that different [TS]

  aspects of people living through the [TS]

  Blitz and it's good but it's definitely [TS]

  not your rollicking time travel [TS]

  adventure it is much more a a sci-fi [TS]

  novel that's really a historic it's a [TS]

  little more in the vein of the domesday [TS]

  book in some ways yeah out of the side [TS]

  note is I think we might discuss [TS]

  discussing anthologies and short-story [TS]

  collections I've read in the last couple [TS]

  years I've read a few amazing collection [TS]

  of short stories by scifi writers who [TS]

  often don't write full-length novels or [TS]

  they're probably not their full-length [TS]

  novels are not as well regarded as a [TS]

  short stories and then maybe [TS]

  entertaining to discuss i agree in fact [TS]

  i I read a short story collection i [TS]

  thought was maybe was it in with DES [TS]

  Greg recommended to me [TS]

  Greg NOS was it you that depend on the [TS]

  island yeah yeah i did i did like them [TS]

  yes it was me [TS]

  well then what was it do you remember [TS]

  that thing you know with the guy with [TS]

  the guys that too is terrific [TS]

  oh man I can't remember it now it was it [TS]

  was really great by a seattle-based [TS]

  writer it might be is it that he had a [TS]

  story in there about someone who the [TS]

  story about the guy who said there's the [TS]

  mirror that you can step through and go [TS]

  back in time or forward in time [TS]

  depending on when your army I go and no [TS]

  that was a wardrobe mirror anyway I'll [TS]

  alice in wonderland in the show notes [TS]

  and this is not a game show you going to [TS]

  get me a calamity circus sounds like I'm [TS]

  not the internet read the other book [TS]

  that I read was the disappearing spoon [TS]

  by sam keen and I recommend it highly it [TS]

  is popular [TS]

  science nonfiction and it's a book about [TS]

  the periodic table of the elements and [TS]

  let me just say every element has at [TS]

  least a chapters worth of wacky [TS]

  historical anecdotes about it and it [TS]

  takes this kind of this veering bouncing [TS]

  around the periodic table to tell you [TS]

  about various scientists who learned [TS]

  great things before they died young from [TS]

  horribly poisoning themselves with [TS]

  various elements that the time the book [TS]

  disappearing spoon refers to an element [TS]

  and I can't remember which one now but [TS]

  it's it's a metal whose melting point is [TS]

  it about 70 degrees Fahrenheit so you [TS]

  can craft a spoon of this metal and stop [TS]

  stored in a freezer and then you serve [TS]

  it with tea and somebody's tries to stir [TS]

  their tea with it and it melts in the [TS]

  tea and they go I and and then everybody [TS]

  has a laugh and then presumably dies of [TS]

  heavy calculate something that'll give [TS]

  you this but seriously that's a great [TS]

  that's a murder mystery there I would [TS]

  have loved that book I write these two [TS]

  ladies it's too late to Sammy Sam keen [TS]

  has already read it slide right i can [TS]

  recommend it in in sort of a bill bryson [TS]

  style of its light and fun and yet [TS]

  everybody dies is all great but it has [TS]

  some great great stories in it so the [TS]

  disappearing spearing check it out if [TS]

  you want to read about elements because [TS]

  let me tell you they're all around us a [TS]

  sequel will be about fundamental forces [TS]

  will be called the dropped and no it'll [TS]

  be about molecules will be for all [TS]

  gluons the protest appearing ion I don't [TS]

  know it was great so if you like your if [TS]

  you like a little science along with [TS]

  your science fiction that would be a [TS]

  nice little side book to read is [TS]

  disappearing spoon that's all i got [TS]

  anything else I don't know boy we really [TS]

  ended with a bang their this lake and [TS]

  just like some of the material into the [TS]

  tray woodall died if this part this [TS]

  yes yes dear listener now that you've [TS]

  reached this point we can tell you the [TS]

  most important thing that will make this [TS]

  entire podcast revelatory to you you'll [TS]

  say well I am so glad that they finally [TS]

  brought it all back together [TS]

  oh well we're out of time I guess we'll [TS]

  bring that up at the beginning of the [TS]

  next podcast sad so until then I'm Jason [TS]

  snow i would like to thank Mike [TS]

  ascot McNulty thank you for being here [TS]

  remember me always there always species [TS]

  uplands you have been and always will be [TS]

  my friend wrong podcast damn its Dan [TS]

  Morgan thank you Dan for being on every [TS]

  podcast [TS]

  well thanks Jason I keep inviting me to [TS]

  everybody yes that's right you're you [TS]

  know this podcast is over well know it [TS]

  is over now [TS]

  uh gun fleischmann thank you very much [TS]

  for attending you have perfect [TS]

  attendance so far and Greg NOS thanks [TS]

  for joining us and and becoming one with [TS]

  the one with the podcast for the first [TS]

  time [TS]

  Thank You Regis i want to remind [TS]

  everybody movie comes out friday that's [TS]

  that's right do we have a clip [TS]

  no no there's no clip sorry your movie [TS]

  comes out friday that means you like get [TS]

  a netflix envelope in the mail this [TS]

  before this podcast posts get iMovie 11 [TS]

  and make a clip for your movie what we [TS]

  also know talk about apple products so [TS]

  why would people even think we know [TS]

  about apple's certain things are an [TS]

  apple spoiler alert porn no now that's [TS]

  the whole podcast at warren alright [TS]

  until next time thanks for listening to [TS]

  be uncomfortable [TS]

  goodbye [TS]

  this has been the incomparable podcast [TS]

  visitor sadly incomparable dot-com [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  going to do some extra credit exercise [TS]

  and I'm I'm I don't think he really [TS]

  understands the concept of extra credit [TS]

  I worked with a woman once and her [TS]

  husband was a personal trainer he said [TS]

  come on come on it'll be fun and so I [TS]

  met him at gym at five in the morning [TS]

  one day and he he he worked me over like [TS]

  a piece of ham and i could not lower my [TS]

  arms for a three more days i was walking [TS]

  around like a Tyrannosaurus Rex leaning [TS]

  over the keyboard to type because I [TS]

  didn't have any flexibility in my elbows [TS]

  there are so many things that you said [TS]

  that were interesting there's the I work [TS]

  with a woman once they get that that was [TS]

  that was against working over like a ham [TS]

  that was it that was it i wasn't aware [TS]

  that hands were worked over i think yes [TS]

  I i went for the wrong piece of meat i [TS]

  should have said side of beef [TS]

  you know the whole Rocky Balboa ask take [TS]

  all right i just i was imagining like a [TS]

  spiral cut ham and has helped people [TS]

  coming over handing on it you were a ham [TS]

  I was spiral cut and honey glaze and [TS]

  honey glazed delicious [TS]

  [Music] [TS]