The Incomparable

10: It`s Clobberin` Time!


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast episode 10 [TS]

00:00:07   November 2010 [TS]

00:00:11   well so we're back on the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:13   podcast and I convene intercession this [TS]

00:00:16   meeting of the comic book club who come [TS]

00:00:19   to the club member say I i if you're [TS]

00:00:23   wondering who we are [TS]

00:00:24   I'm Jason snow and the other members of [TS]

00:00:26   this comic book club are jason reitman [TS]

00:00:27   hello hey thanks for having me back and [TS]

00:00:30   it's good to have you here in this in [TS]

00:00:31   this strange place where we're recording [TS]

00:00:33   this which used to be her office and [TS]

00:00:35   Lisa Schmeisser who and you with this [TS]

00:00:37   was never your office now and you've [TS]

00:00:39   never even worked on this floor know so [TS]

00:00:41   so there I was gentrified out of the [TS]

00:00:43   office so we can have a podcast was [TS]

00:00:45   moving on up [TS]

00:00:46   yeah to a deal exit apartment in the sky [TS]

00:00:47   that's another podcast anyway the [TS]

00:00:50   jeffersons podcast coming soon so today [TS]

00:00:52   what we thought we would talk about and [TS]

00:00:54   this was a plot hatched in the last [TS]

00:00:55   comic book club meeting was the [TS]

00:00:57   Fantastic Four and all its forms the [TS]

00:00:59   Fantastic Four were the original marvel [TS]

00:01:02   comic the in the Marvel Universe even [TS]

00:01:05   though everybody thinks of spider-man I [TS]

00:01:07   think this as the the beginning of the [TS]

00:01:09   Marvel Universe it's not true [TS]

00:01:10   the Fantastic Four came first and they [TS]

00:01:13   have been a stalwart part of what Marvel [TS]

00:01:16   has done over the last however many [TS]

00:01:17   decades it is what 40 or 50 years now 50 [TS]

00:01:21   years [TS]

00:01:22   yes sixties wasn't 623 yeah yeah so it's [TS]

00:01:25   coming up 50 actually that'll be [TS]

00:01:26   interesting but I've never been you know [TS]

00:01:29   top-of-mind i think in in the culture [TS]

00:01:33   either of comic book readers or of the [TS]

00:01:35   general pop culture that they have been [TS]

00:01:37   a couple fantastic for movies and there [TS]

00:01:39   was the Fantastic Four and made serious [TS]

00:01:41   which would maybe we will talk about a [TS]

00:01:43   little bit always been hurt several and [TS]

00:01:45   ready to our animated series [TS]

00:01:47   yes that's true actually I'm thinking of [TS]

00:01:48   the one from from original sixties early [TS]

00:01:51   seventies that one was actually my first [TS]

00:01:53   introduction of the Fantastic Four [TS]

00:01:55   yeah so based on the kirby art so [TS]

00:01:56   they've been around but but they've [TS]

00:01:59   never been a huge huge deal and it's [TS]

00:02:03   kind of interesting that they are they [TS]

00:02:04   the Fantastic Four is iconic and yet not [TS]

00:02:07   as well known as others it's the source [TS]

00:02:09   for a lot of stuff i think we can write [TS]

00:02:11   incredibles is based largely on the [TS]

00:02:13   Fantastic Four and yet largely no [TS]

00:02:15   ordinary family into ordinary family [TS]

00:02:17   with its interesting thing they've never [TS]

00:02:18   been that sort of commercial success but [TS]

00:02:20   as far as icons go [TS]

00:02:22   they are sort of like the quintessential [TS]

00:02:24   superhero group that everything else is [TS]

00:02:27   based on right and they've got the kind [TS]

00:02:28   of family dynamic going on because it's [TS]

00:02:30   a friend and why do wonderful family [TS]

00:02:33   dynamics is why they didn't catch on as [TS]

00:02:35   much because when you think about Marvel [TS]

00:02:36   was always kind of found it as an [TS]

00:02:38   alternative to DC where Marvel's in the [TS]

00:02:39   real world and they had aggressively [TS]

00:02:41   positioned a lot of their their books to [TS]

00:02:43   appeal to young single and/or [TS]

00:02:46   countercultural readers and then to have [TS]

00:02:48   this family unit where it was evident to [TS]

00:02:51   all to any reader that all four people [TS]

00:02:53   in that unit value the family and would [TS]

00:02:55   preserve that that may not have [TS]

00:02:57   resonated with a fourteen-year-old [TS]

00:02:58   reader the same way that you know we get [TS]

00:03:00   charged leave your zeal does it [TS]

00:03:02   certainly didn't with me growing up you [TS]

00:03:04   know reading the x-men and all of the [TS]

00:03:05   cool comics Fantastic Four was so lame [TS]

00:03:08   and dumb and silly and but yeah we heard [TS]

00:03:11   smoking his pipe right but now actually [TS]

00:03:14   that I'm older and I just went back and [TS]

00:03:16   reread some of them and I have a family [TS]

00:03:18   I appreciate that family dynamic and [TS]

00:03:20   story and first now I don't think the [TS]

00:03:22   Fantastic Four is lame [TS]

00:03:23   yeah I i started reading Fantastic Four [TS]

00:03:25   during John Burns run after he left the [TS]

00:03:27   ax men and what I what the reason I [TS]

00:03:29   liked it is because it was you know if [TS]

00:03:32   I've mentioned before in this podcast [TS]

00:03:33   that I love the Micronauts and it was a [TS]

00:03:35   sci-fi comic i loved nova which was a [TS]

00:03:38   seventies Marvel invention that was ace [TS]

00:03:41   us and again [TS]

00:03:43   marvel's green lantern basically but a [TS]

00:03:44   sci-fi comic and the thing I loved about [TS]

00:03:46   the burn Fantastic Four was that it is [TS]

00:03:49   that was a sci-fi that what that was we [TS]

00:03:52   build spaceships and have crazy science [TS]

00:03:54   and go to the negative zone and i love [TS]

00:03:57   that that was what i liked about that's [TS]

00:03:59   what i really like about somewhat [TS]

00:04:00   fantastic four is they give you these [TS]

00:04:02   great explanations for example Reed [TS]

00:04:04   Richards oh you know every cell in your [TS]

00:04:06   body has been converted to bacterial [TS]

00:04:08   stack you no longer need to eat breathe [TS]

00:04:09   sleep right now basically this [TS]

00:04:11   collection of scientific anomalies in [TS]

00:04:13   your brain can stretch itself in any [TS]

00:04:15   direction before we continue along those [TS]

00:04:16   lines I just need to point out that yes [TS]

00:04:18   for those following at home we did go [TS]

00:04:20   nearly four minutes and 30 seconds [TS]

00:04:22   before Jason mentioned the Micronauts [TS]

00:04:24   it's good i think the over-under was [TS]

00:04:27   spotted it [TS]

00:04:28   always choose the under when it comes to [TS]

00:04:30   the Micronauts gonna have to have the [TS]

00:04:32   all microns parties and Don Harris [TS]

00:04:33   realized it was into a sci-fi thing I [TS]

00:04:35   always loved the sci-fi comics and there [TS]

00:04:37   were that many of the mountain and AFF [TS]

00:04:39   sort of took that role of dishes [TS]

00:04:41   especially in the 30 run like to do [TS]

00:04:43   today you get that too on Marvel and DC [TS]

00:04:44   they have you can be cosmic superheroes [TS]

00:04:46   and actually I'm Kirkman with invincible [TS]

00:04:48   is doing the story arc right now the [TS]

00:04:50   hilton ride war which is a cosmic war [TS]

00:04:53   kind of story again always love that [TS]

00:04:56   stuff that's why I like Nova so you know [TS]

00:04:58   it thats that's where the eff kind of [TS]

00:05:00   came in before we get too far off here [TS]

00:05:02   we do actually have a relatively modern [TS]

00:05:04   relatively self-contained Fantastic Four [TS]

00:05:08   related book that we wanted to talk [TS]

00:05:10   about that we all read which is they [TS]

00:05:12   should do that which will start with [TS]

00:05:14   that as a jumping-off point that gives [TS]

00:05:16   everybody out there something that they [TS]

00:05:17   can read two other than just saying read [TS]

00:05:19   all the fantastic four that were [TS]

00:05:20   published and watch those terrible [TS]

00:05:22   movies and watch rather be a robot and [TS]

00:05:24   come back in like six years so and then [TS]

00:05:26   we'll talk [TS]

00:05:26   uh which is unstable molecules which I [TS]

00:05:28   hadn't even heard of before it was [TS]

00:05:31   mentioned in the last podcast or after [TS]

00:05:34   the last podcast was over maybe write it [TS]

00:05:36   unstable molecules came out a few years [TS]

00:05:39   back when Marvel was still in bankruptcy [TS]

00:05:40   and Bill Jameis had taken over as Marvel [TS]

00:05:44   and joe quesada just come on as [TS]

00:05:46   editor-in-chief and it was sort of a [TS]

00:05:47   time when they were doing all these kind [TS]

00:05:49   of experimental weird off-the-wall kind [TS]

00:05:52   of stories it was a four-issue [TS]

00:05:53   miniseries was written by tooth 2003 [TS]

00:05:57   yeah the drawn by a guy davis and [TS]

00:06:00   written by a guy named term who actually [TS]

00:06:04   is big in the indie comics world he did [TS]

00:06:07   the golems mighty swing which is a [TS]

00:06:08   graphic novel he might think most famous [TS]

00:06:10   for James Stern yes and now teaches at [TS]

00:06:13   the cartooning school in vermont i [TS]

00:06:16   believe this is available as a trade [TS]

00:06:17   paperback is and yes that i read it all [TS]

00:06:19   right it was easy pickup on amazon for [TS]

00:06:22   like three dollars [TS]

00:06:23   yeah is a four-issue series which is [TS]

00:06:25   always appropriate for this and that the [TS]

00:06:26   sort of shifting viewpoints of the [TS]

00:06:29   characters across the four before issues [TS]

00:06:31   but what what's fascinating about it is [TS]

00:06:32   that it's not really about the Fantastic [TS]

00:06:34   Four and yet it is it is about comics [TS]

00:06:37   and it's about of life in [TS]

00:06:39   in a America in the late fifties it's [TS]

00:06:43   got almost a madman kind of feel to it [TS]

00:06:45   and this is the first season I've [TS]

00:06:47   watched mad men and so watching that [TS]

00:06:50   series in conjunction with reading [TS]

00:06:52   unstable molecules you get the same [TS]

00:06:54   sense of claustrophobic emotional [TS]

00:06:56   repressive pneus oh yes you and an issue [TS]

00:06:59   two sous trauma who is the model for 46 [TS]

00:07:02   storm obviously is she's basically Betty [TS]

00:07:05   Draper yeah she's current just crushed [TS]

00:07:08   by not not so much by read her boyfriend [TS]

00:07:11   now I just society yeah mhm and I don't [TS]

00:07:14   know perhaps that perhaps this is the [TS]

00:07:16   result of Justine reading too much into [TS]

00:07:19   the subtext but i did find it really [TS]

00:07:21   interesting that you've got the [TS]

00:07:22   homosexual subtext associated with the [TS]

00:07:24   character who is known in the comics for [TS]

00:07:25   saying flame on gonna constantly yeah [TS]

00:07:28   yeah Johnny I mean so basically the way [TS]

00:07:30   the story works is that the premises [TS]

00:07:32   that the the Fantastic Four are inspired [TS]

00:07:36   that there's actually a scene at the end [TS]

00:07:37   of the fourth issue where did they [TS]

00:07:40   alleged are deadly and jack kirby and a [TS]

00:07:42   couple other guys meet these characters [TS]

00:07:45   at a party [TS]

00:07:46   yeah and so that the theory is that they [TS]

00:07:48   but they have been basing some of the [TS]

00:07:50   characters that have existed in San [TS]

00:07:51   these new characters the Fantastic Four [TS]

00:07:53   on these other characters so there's a [TS]

00:07:54   guy named Reed Richards who is this kind [TS]

00:07:56   of snooty scientist who's lost in his [TS]

00:07:59   work at Columbia University they're sooo [TS]

00:08:01   strong who is his girlfriend she's got a [TS]

00:08:04   little brother Johnny who is rebellious [TS]

00:08:06   rebellious teenager and their parents [TS]

00:08:08   had died in a car crash and then there's [TS]

00:08:10   been great been busy been grammar is he [TS]

00:08:12   does he have another name but hes b is [TS]

00:08:14   the Ben Grimm analog and he is a friend [TS]

00:08:16   of reeds from college and and he has a [TS]

00:08:19   sort of carries a torch for there's a [TS]

00:08:21   huge torture see he has a boxing gym [TS]

00:08:24   yeah and he's and he's the earthy guy [TS]

00:08:27   from Brooklyn that you guys back TM the [TS]

00:08:29   analog of a been accepted these are [TS]

00:08:31   people in basically the real world right [TS]

00:08:34   and and and therefore had my comes to [TS]

00:08:37   their family ties are nowhere near as [TS]

00:08:39   seamless or stable as the Marvel [TS]

00:08:41   characters and that's saying something [TS]

00:08:43   given the drama and the storm and wrong [TS]

00:08:45   that goes on with your usual fantastic [TS]

00:08:47   for title but that was the thing about [TS]

00:08:49   unstable molecules is just how [TS]

00:08:51   unfulfilled and [TS]

00:08:52   happy everybody agrees with everybody [TS]

00:08:54   else can be the subtitle of it is the [TS]

00:08:56   true story of the world's greatest [TS]

00:08:59   foursome [TS]

00:08:59   yeah yeah yeah yeah and it's not of [TS]

00:09:02   course not true but in the end I yea [TS]

00:09:04   sorry I hate to break it to you but they [TS]

00:09:06   have a spoiler already have these [TS]

00:09:08   president reductions and post scripts [TS]

00:09:10   where the that they kind of do this this [TS]

00:09:12   postmodern oh this is how this was [TS]

00:09:14   inspired by the characters biographies [TS]

00:09:16   you just read his reference material in [TS]

00:09:18   the back yeah it's it's it's one of [TS]

00:09:20   those you know [TS]

00:09:21   yes it acts as if it is truly true and [TS]

00:09:24   that they've got the one of the nice [TS]

00:09:26   things about it is that it does cut back [TS]

00:09:28   and forth between this this comic strip [TS]

00:09:32   color comic book called vapor girl when [TS]

00:09:34   is theoretically written by Stanley that [TS]

00:09:38   is that in the story the artist of vapor [TS]

00:09:41   girl was a neighbor i think yes of sooo [TS]

00:09:45   strong and he's the reason that the all [TS]

00:09:47   the Marvel Comics guys come to that [TS]

00:09:48   party and and that's used that cuts back [TS]

00:09:51   and forth between her sort of terrible [TS]

00:09:53   life and the life of the damage the [TS]

00:09:56   tribulations of vapor girl that's its do [TS]

00:09:59   the only person who seems really happy [TS]

00:10:00   with his life in the series is read and [TS]

00:10:03   I think it's just because he's too [TS]

00:10:04   intellectually disconnected from it to [TS]

00:10:05   realize what he what he does or doesn't [TS]

00:10:07   want right because you take a look and [TS]

00:10:10   Susan the grocery store and she's [TS]

00:10:11   thinking I never asked to be the parent [TS]

00:10:13   of a teenager when I was still a [TS]

00:10:14   teenager myself [TS]

00:10:15   the biggest reason she got together with [TS]

00:10:17   Reed was because she was hoping he'd [TS]

00:10:18   provide a father figure for Johnny so [TS]

00:10:20   that seems to imply that there's she she [TS]

00:10:23   isn't feeling particular connection to [TS]

00:10:24   him she was just kind of playing the [TS]

00:10:25   long con is that were johnny hates [TS]

00:10:27   everything about his life because he's a [TS]

00:10:29   teenager and his some situations all [TS]

00:10:31   screwed up Ben can't connect with women [TS]

00:10:33   because he dumps them after one month [TS]

00:10:34   because their fingernails are square [TS]

00:10:36   where they do your table manners or [TS]

00:10:37   whatever and trim your fingernails [TS]

00:10:38   family and because he's there because [TS]

00:10:41   theoretically still life sort of [TS]

00:10:43   idealized sooo yeah and yeah it's a but [TS]

00:10:46   there's a scene that back to the cabin [TS]

00:10:47   reed is trying to figure out how to [TS]

00:10:49   propose to see when he's abstracted into [TS]

00:10:51   what would be advantageous in the [TS]

00:10:52   cabbies like do you love her tell her [TS]

00:10:54   that and just ask her to marry you and [TS]

00:10:56   reduce all but why would I do [TS]

00:10:59   yeah it's it's it's it's really i was [TS]

00:11:02   very impressed i think it's really well [TS]

00:11:04   done it and then [TS]

00:11:04   and it it's definitely interesting to [TS]

00:11:07   say okay people who are knowledgeable [TS]

00:11:08   about superhero stories and things like [TS]

00:11:10   that we're going to take that knowledge [TS]

00:11:11   and tell a story about people that [TS]

00:11:13   doesn't involve powers or anything [TS]

00:11:15   beyond the beyond the real world and [TS]

00:11:17   these people are kind of miserable and I [TS]

00:11:19   just find it interesting story of the [TS]

00:11:21   year and just say that their parts of it [TS]

00:11:23   that are funny i love the fact that [TS]

00:11:24   throughout all four we see the kind of [TS]

00:11:26   ongoing adventures of Johnny and his and [TS]

00:11:29   his friend who who are believed by these [TS]

00:11:32   guys but get a little bit of their [TS]

00:11:33   revenge that they give is still the car [TS]

00:11:35   didn't necessarily give as good as they [TS]

00:11:36   get but yeah they take the brake off the [TS]

00:11:38   car and then later they steal this guy's [TS]

00:11:40   car and then I get the crap beat out of [TS]

00:11:42   him but it you know the defiance that [TS]

00:11:45   that makes it appealing though [TS]

00:11:46   yeah yeah now it's so that was some some [TS]

00:11:48   not necessarily comic relief but a [TS]

00:11:50   little kind of adventure and fun of [TS]

00:11:51   showing that these guys aren't going to [TS]

00:11:53   take it that I that I kinda like but [TS]

00:11:54   yeah it's it is sort of miserable people [TS]

00:11:56   in a min in bad situations and and in [TS]

00:12:00   the end I think that's that sooo ends up [TS]

00:12:03   kind of breaking free from her condition [TS]

00:12:05   whereas sort of read ends up as this [TS]

00:12:07   kind of miserable user in the lab in the [TS]

00:12:09   middle [TS]

00:12:10   well be interesting to see if you could [TS]

00:12:11   take that the basic premise behind the [TS]

00:12:13   switches take away the superpowers and [TS]

00:12:15   these the dynamics and the personalities [TS]

00:12:16   that play out and I'd love to see how [TS]

00:12:18   that would get applied to other Marvel [TS]

00:12:19   properties for example what if daredevil [TS]

00:12:23   didn't have his super enhanced senses [TS]

00:12:25   and all you have basically is a blind [TS]

00:12:27   lawyer who has this out outside sense of [TS]

00:12:30   moral obligation these profoundly [TS]

00:12:31   screwed up relationships with women [TS]

00:12:33   maybe they were there was actually [TS]

00:12:35   another Marvel series called powerless [TS]

00:12:37   there's a four-issue series i think each [TS]

00:12:39   issued out with a different Marvel [TS]

00:12:40   character remember a spider-man Peter [TS]

00:12:42   Peter Parker being on the cover of one I [TS]

00:12:44   think it started following those themes [TS]

00:12:45   but i haven't read it and it was already [TS]

00:12:50   came out right around the same time so I [TS]

00:12:51   wonder if that's what they were doing [TS]

00:12:53   yeah it's interesting because you've got [TS]

00:12:54   that you know the character dynamics [TS]

00:12:56   right yeah man and then so that's the [TS]

00:12:58   question is if you pull the superhero [TS]

00:13:01   aspect out what's left i mean you could [TS]

00:13:03   argue that them in spider-man 2 i think [TS]

00:13:06   is actually a pretty good movie but it's [TS]

00:13:07   really a movie i think i might have said [TS]

00:13:09   this on a previous podcast it's really a [TS]

00:13:11   movie about a guy who's got problems who [TS]

00:13:14   happens to be a superhero right and [TS]

00:13:15   that's the superhero just get you in the [TS]

00:13:17   door but that's [TS]

00:13:18   not really i just realized the Marvel [TS]

00:13:20   Marvel more they've launched the nor [TS]

00:13:22   books last year [TS]

00:13:23   random i had of course picked up the [TS]

00:13:25   x-men run and it's pretty much the same [TS]

00:13:26   thing we have these characters they [TS]

00:13:27   don't have powers and they transpose [TS]

00:13:31   some of the traits and it basically [TS]

00:13:33   takes those themes and what are the [TS]

00:13:34   dynamics like when you take the mutant [TS]

00:13:36   powers or the crazy situations out of [TS]

00:13:39   the equation right stick into different [TS]

00:13:41   historical context of the thing I IA i [TS]

00:13:44   liked about unstable molecules it was [TS]

00:13:45   really taking the fantastic out of the [TS]

00:13:47   Fantastic Four [TS]

00:13:48   yeah I and then you know when you [TS]

00:13:51   started thinking about because it ends [TS]

00:13:53   with sort of the the party in the [TS]

00:13:54   meeting and so in your mind you're like [TS]

00:13:56   oh and then Stanley went home and [TS]

00:13:58   created the Fantastic Four and we all [TS]

00:14:00   know that originally Kirby and Stan Lee [TS]

00:14:02   kind of run and artwork and it was [TS]

00:14:04   fantastic and then that sort of imagery [TS]

00:14:07   and like what I brought to the table [TS]

00:14:09   with the history the Fantastic Four and [TS]

00:14:10   how like fantastic and cosmic at all is [TS]

00:14:12   really brought the fact this was like [TS]

00:14:16   people's daily lives will use your body [TS]

00:14:18   for right had made that contrast so [TS]

00:14:21   great and then you compare to your own [TS]

00:14:22   life and like why people started reading [TS]

00:14:24   the comics for escapism to begin with uh [TS]

00:14:26   yeah when I was really interesting and [TS]

00:14:29   I'm which johnny and his friend do they [TS]

00:14:31   think conversations of right about about [TS]

00:14:34   the comics and identify this comic from [TS]

00:14:36   me describing this panel and things like [TS]

00:14:38   that that's definitely a part of what [TS]

00:14:41   they're doing there [TS]

00:14:41   I would love to know if the writers are [TS]

00:14:42   influenced by the sopranos because one [TS]

00:14:45   of the things that one of the themes [TS]

00:14:46   that arc through that entire series was [TS]

00:14:48   that no matter how much you may want to [TS]

00:14:49   change your basic nature it is your [TS]

00:14:52   basic nature you know and that was the [TS]

00:14:55   end of the series 2 which is that [TS]

00:14:56   despite being in therapy for years Tony [TS]

00:14:57   never really changes he just has a [TS]

00:14:59   better vocabulary for figuring out who [TS]

00:15:01   he is and it seemed like this with [TS]

00:15:04   unstable molecules every change these [TS]

00:15:07   guys made was a result of who they were [TS]

00:15:09   already not who they wanted to be or or [TS]

00:15:11   you know they were limited by they were [TS]

00:15:14   limited by the nate by the very nature [TS]

00:15:16   who they were [TS]

00:15:17   which is almost the opposite of any [TS]

00:15:19   other superhero comic which is oh you [TS]

00:15:21   can fly the world is your oyster or if [TS]

00:15:25   you read Richard oh you bring the [TS]

00:15:27   construction any direction you can solve [TS]

00:15:28   any problem known to [TS]

00:15:29   and all right because that's that's the [TS]

00:15:31   that's the Marvel way right as the [TS]

00:15:33   powers are sort of formed with the with [TS]

00:15:35   the character and you along with the [TS]

00:15:37   character you don't get the you know you [TS]

00:15:39   get the powers then that you don't [TS]

00:15:41   always get the powers that you you want [TS]

00:15:44   to get the house she deserves [TS]

00:15:45   maybe you get the powers you deserve [TS]

00:15:46   yeah i know that this is sort of Stanley [TS]

00:15:48   model i think in some ways which is why [TS]

00:15:51   it's kind of fascinating that you have [TS]

00:15:52   invisible girl the 1960s because i [TS]

00:15:54   really wonder what sort of feminist to [TS]

00:15:57   subtext there is to that you're right [TS]

00:15:58   which is address after dead-on and [TS]

00:16:00   enable medical schools where she feels [TS]

00:16:02   sometimes she's visible and invisible [TS]

00:16:05   yeah exactly and there's the terrible [TS]

00:16:07   women and in the Bookroom rato gentle it [TS]

00:16:11   oh man I mean it fits that's where the [TS]

00:16:13   real Slim is it was just awful [TS]

00:16:15   yeah yeah oh I i'm also i mean obviously [TS]

00:16:18   one of the things that that unstable [TS]

00:16:19   molecules is about is about the creative [TS]

00:16:21   process it is about taking elements from [TS]

00:16:25   a world and its reverse engineering [TS]

00:16:27   right but it's taking elements from the [TS]

00:16:29   real world and then how do you as a [TS]

00:16:30   creator weave these into that thing that [TS]

00:16:33   that is fantastic and amazing and so [TS]

00:16:35   throughout how do you take these crappy [TS]

00:16:37   lives and turn them into escapist fare [TS]

00:16:38   well right and so and it's funny because [TS]

00:16:42   you're playing spot the reference but at [TS]

00:16:44   the same time it really makes you think [TS]

00:16:45   that not only do you have these four [TS]

00:16:46   characters but you've got in in the [TS]

00:16:48   first issue I think Reed is talking [TS]

00:16:50   about how he's getting sued by a former [TS]

00:16:52   lab assistant of his who's like victor [TS]

00:16:56   von domm or something like that and it's [TS]

00:16:58   very obvious that that's like he tells [TS]

00:17:00   the story about how he's got this awful [TS]

00:17:02   guy who came from Eastern Europe and [TS]

00:17:03   stole his stole his ideas and and maybe [TS]

00:17:06   because dr. doom and Johnny's buddy who [TS]

00:17:08   sort of short and fat becomes like a [TS]

00:17:10   mole man analog and and throughout just [TS]

00:17:14   like how-to writers take bits of real [TS]

00:17:17   life and turn them into something that [TS]

00:17:19   is altogether or mostly different anyway [TS]

00:17:22   if not altogether different [TS]

00:17:24   wow I just a blown your minds ok let's [TS]

00:17:27   talk about her being really concur [TS]

00:17:29   yeah we concur and looking for what [TS]

00:17:32   about the artwork [TS]

00:17:33   ok please to be you know guy davis and i [TS]

00:17:36   think is one of the most underrated [TS]

00:17:37   artists in the the [TS]

00:17:39   business now and he certainly he's the [TS]

00:17:40   best one of the best storytellers if not [TS]

00:17:43   the best storyteller working his panel [TS]

00:17:45   to panel flow is is so seamless that you [TS]

00:17:48   don't even really notice the transitions [TS]

00:17:51   that you just kind of read through very [TS]

00:17:53   smoothly and it's like you're watching a [TS]

00:17:55   scene play out you know he don't lie i [TS]

00:17:57   think he's not as big as other artists [TS]

00:17:59   because he draws real people and not [TS]

00:18:01   real in the Bryan Hitch ultra-realistic [TS]

00:18:04   movie way but really isn't [TS]

00:18:05   they're all 20 pounds overweight dumpy [TS]

00:18:08   nobody is fantastically beautiful the [TS]

00:18:11   right [TS]

00:18:11   no not at all yeah he's currently he [TS]

00:18:13   does the BPRD in the hellboy [TS]

00:18:16   universities a regular artist on that [TS]

00:18:18   and his own mark mark ebook which is [TS]

00:18:22   excellent but you know for this kind of [TS]

00:18:25   story that's like about real people in [TS]

00:18:28   the real world he gets like the [TS]

00:18:30   architecture and the clothing and the [TS]

00:18:32   expressions and is his artwork is just [TS]

00:18:35   on the sort of side of cartoony but it [TS]

00:18:37   flows it has just enough lines to get [TS]

00:18:39   the kind of mood across like a good [TS]

00:18:41   cartoonist and just the story flows from [TS]

00:18:43   panel to panel to panel beautifully it [TS]

00:18:46   also borrows pretty heavily from the [TS]

00:18:47   comics conventions of the 1960s in a no [TS]

00:18:50   Marge way without completely replicating [TS]

00:18:51   them which I really liked and whoever [TS]

00:18:53   the colorist is on this did a brilliant [TS]

00:18:55   job as well because the colors also have [TS]

00:18:57   that great late 1950s early nineteen [TS]

00:19:00   sixties atomic pastels feel to them [TS]

00:19:03   something I noticed in the art is that I [TS]

00:19:06   think there's a dual reference here is [TS]

00:19:09   in the last issue [TS]

00:19:11   sue has has created this party for for [TS]

00:19:14   all of reeds people from the University [TS]

00:19:16   and he hasn't even shown up yet and we [TS]

00:19:18   see her stressing out before everybody [TS]

00:19:20   gets there in the next time we see her [TS]

00:19:21   she's had a few martinis and she's tipsy [TS]

00:19:24   and what the way it's portrayed she has [TS]

00:19:27   these bubbles over her head which is [TS]

00:19:29   funny first I thought well this is kinda [TS]

00:19:32   like the mundane version of the kirby [TS]

00:19:34   krackle you know you get those little [TS]

00:19:35   Bob bubbles all over somebody and [TS]

00:19:37   they're pulsating with with up with our [TS]

00:19:40   strange energies from beyond writer yeah [TS]

00:19:43   and it also of course is the more [TS]

00:19:45   obvious one that I came to later was [TS]

00:19:46   it's also that was the invisible girls [TS]

00:19:48   power right was to make little bubbles [TS]

00:19:50   and in this case she's got a little bit [TS]

00:19:52   all around here but they just mean that [TS]

00:19:53   she's soused it's very good but uh but [TS]

00:19:57   it's it's good i mean it's good stuff [TS]

00:19:59   and it does not look like anything [TS]

00:20:01   modern which is which is part of that [TS]

00:20:04   the really nice thing about the art is [TS]

00:20:05   that it works really well it's really [TS]

00:20:07   good but it doesn't look even remotely [TS]

00:20:08   like something from the 21st century [TS]

00:20:12   which was published in 2003 I think [TS]

00:20:14   that's why I remind me so strongly of [TS]

00:20:16   madness because it's bad men as a [TS]

00:20:17   serious strives so obviously to [TS]

00:20:20   replicate the look of the period [TS]

00:20:23   um this does the same thing except it [TS]

00:20:27   doesn't quite hit you over the head [TS]

00:20:28   would look how effective we are looking [TS]

00:20:29   at atlantic we are it instead what [TS]

00:20:31   they've done is they've recognized that [TS]

00:20:32   for modern comics readers are used to [TS]

00:20:34   certain compositions and certain [TS]

00:20:36   illustration styles and then it somehow [TS]

00:20:38   manages to marry those back to the [TS]

00:20:40   things that people are reading in [TS]

00:20:41   nineteen fifties and sixties and it it [TS]

00:20:43   gives it this really beautiful period [TS]

00:20:45   feel without it feeling anachronistic if [TS]

00:20:48   that makes sense [TS]

00:20:49   mhm it's almost if if you weren't paying [TS]

00:20:51   attention you wouldn't notice you would [TS]

00:20:52   just go with it but when you start to [TS]

00:20:54   pay attention there's all those layers [TS]

00:20:56   there that's actually this I think it's [TS]

00:20:57   actually signed a really good comics [TS]

00:20:59   illustration is when it takes you awhile [TS]

00:21:00   to unpack it and realize exactly how [TS]

00:21:02   well it's done as opposed to people you [TS]

00:21:04   know they would look my costume has [TS]

00:21:06   patches look right which is anyway I [TS]

00:21:09   think guy davis is one of the best [TS]

00:21:11   artists working today [TS]

00:21:12   I think I think there's an argument to [TS]

00:21:15   be made that comics are always met made [TS]

00:21:18   to be read more than once because you're [TS]

00:21:21   a kid and you get it and you want to [TS]

00:21:22   know what happens and you rip through it [TS]

00:21:24   right so first time a can help you see [TS]

00:21:26   what's on the next page of somebody's [TS]

00:21:28   fighting over there i got a hurry to get [TS]

00:21:29   through it all and that's read one right [TS]

00:21:33   and then and then I maybe I i assume [TS]

00:21:35   people do this when it's not just me and [TS]

00:21:38   then you go back and then you you know [TS]

00:21:40   what's gonna happen but now you're [TS]

00:21:41   really making the journey and in digging [TS]

00:21:44   down into each panel [TS]

00:21:46   yes sadly I think that less true did [TS]

00:21:49   with today's comics that are written [TS]

00:21:50   more for the the trade paperbacks then [TS]

00:21:53   it was you know back when we were kids [TS]

00:21:55   reading comics the i/o if you read an [TS]

00:21:58   issue of the Mighty Avengers today and [TS]

00:22:01   then read it again in a week and another [TS]

00:22:03   I'm another week i'm not sure you would [TS]

00:22:04   get more nuanced out of it because it's [TS]

00:22:07   already compressed or because it's so [TS]

00:22:09   decompressed that you don't like I think [TS]

00:22:11   in the decompression process all of [TS]

00:22:13   those nuances float away and have have [TS]

00:22:15   gone out because it's about more big [TS]

00:22:18   splashes and explosions and the fact [TS]

00:22:19   that artists are paid by the page and as [TS]

00:22:22   our writers so the more volume right if [TS]

00:22:25   you write less stuff but make it on more [TS]

00:22:27   pages [TS]

00:22:28   yeah i can see that i mean i still think [TS]

00:22:29   that there are just start the pictures [TS]

00:22:32   have detail that if you're really [TS]

00:22:34   reading through and sort of saying okay [TS]

00:22:35   and he says this and then fight and then [TS]

00:22:37   he says this and then this happened [TS]

00:22:39   thing happens you know you're you're not [TS]

00:22:40   necessarily going to drink in what's [TS]

00:22:42   actually on the pages i think that just [TS]

00:22:44   the just the going back and noticing [TS]

00:22:47   that the nuances of the art but you me [TS]

00:22:51   and some people don't do it right I [TS]

00:22:52   think that's the other part of it is [TS]

00:22:53   some people just kind of ripped through [TS]

00:22:54   it and get the story and they move on [TS]

00:22:56   and they're not focused on now I can [TS]

00:22:58   jump onto a comic store and let my [TS]

00:22:59   opinion note I guess I guess what I'm [TS]

00:23:01   saying is that it's just something that [TS]

00:23:03   really can unfold in the rereading it [TS]

00:23:06   doesn't necessarily not everything [TS]

00:23:08   necessarily doesn't unfold and not that [TS]

00:23:10   many readers necessarily do it but that [TS]

00:23:12   I think there's there's some natural [TS]

00:23:14   levels there by the way I had I i [TS]

00:23:17   interviewed the in advance new york [TS]

00:23:19   comicon interview the president of dark [TS]

00:23:21   horse and the richardson yes and he [TS]

00:23:24   referred to [TS]

00:23:25   he was talking about their the digital [TS]

00:23:27   comics initiative which is now old news [TS]

00:23:29   although i think it's being announced in [TS]

00:23:31   about two hours as we record this but [TS]

00:23:33   it's old news by the time you listen to [TS]

00:23:35   this dear listener but he referred to [TS]

00:23:37   what what you call the flimsies he [TS]

00:23:39   referred to them as pamphlets right [TS]

00:23:41   which is a common term actually in the [TS]

00:23:42   industry which is which is a good term [TS]

00:23:44   and it gets the same thing across so [TS]

00:23:45   that that person on Twitter who said [TS]

00:23:46   stop calling them limbs you're driving [TS]

00:23:48   me crazy it's all right we'll call an [TS]

00:23:50   ambulance now [TS]

00:23:50   yeah but because that's what they are [TS]

00:23:52   always think of pamphlets and think of [TS]

00:23:53   like Revolutionary War I was just signal [TS]

00:23:56   which were basically the difference if [TS]

00:23:58   you ever read those though a common [TS]

00:23:59   sense is not you know [TS]

00:24:01   oh I've skimmed it and I'm done it's [TS]

00:24:02   it's a pretty hefty work so yeah let's [TS]

00:24:06   bring back pamphlet is a descriptive [TS]

00:24:07   term 444 serialize yes pamphleteers [TS]

00:24:11   necessary for serialize publications [TS]

00:24:13   there a gap in [TS]

00:24:14   looks ya dead tree edition versus the [TS]

00:24:17   digital edition so to get back to the [TS]

00:24:19   Invisible Woman the bubbles and so on [TS]

00:24:21   and so forth one of the things I've [TS]

00:24:22   always wondered about is she really [TS]

00:24:24   doesn't use your powers for a whole lot [TS]

00:24:25   other for a whole lot beyond purely [TS]

00:24:28   defensive maneuvers and you know it's [TS]

00:24:31   usually i was super quick block these [TS]

00:24:32   bricks from playa in a class the classic [TS]

00:24:35   uses right I don't think some reason i [TS]

00:24:37   have been a car more offensive well the [TS]

00:24:39   reason i bring that up is because when [TS]

00:24:40   you read I'm rising stars one of the the [TS]

00:24:45   characters and rising stars Joe [TS]

00:24:47   Straczynski jet just rozinsky is rising [TS]

00:24:49   star series one of the characters little [TS]

00:24:51   dark Haven her power is being able to [TS]

00:24:53   create very small force fields or or you [TS]

00:24:56   know pinch thinks open or closed [TS]

00:24:58   she's my staff she becomes a trained [TS]

00:25:00   assassin because the carotid artery is [TS]

00:25:01   about as big as her force field extends [TS]

00:25:03   and that got me thinking you know I and [TS]

00:25:08   this may be because i haven't widely [TS]

00:25:10   read the the Fantastic Four but why have [TS]

00:25:12   has it never occurred to sue storm that [TS]

00:25:14   she's got this tremendous offensive [TS]

00:25:15   power that she could use i think in the [TS]

00:25:17   the in preparation for this podcast i [TS]

00:25:20   reread the burn run which is of course [TS]

00:25:22   the second greatest run of the Fantastic [TS]

00:25:24   Four after the kirby lee run and then I [TS]

00:25:28   reread the hitch will our run which is a [TS]

00:25:31   more recent one and in the the hitch [TS]

00:25:33   more run if she does I believe uses her [TS]

00:25:37   she makes people's optic nerves [TS]

00:25:38   invisible that's making them blind and [TS]

00:25:41   and so some more things along those [TS]

00:25:43   lines not killing people because yeah [TS]

00:25:45   that actually does your planetary to [TS]

00:25:47   wear her in a lot where where the storm [TS]

00:25:50   analogue spoiler [TS]

00:25:52   this is from analog in planetary because [TS]

00:25:54   her optic nerves have become invisible [TS]

00:25:55   her husband has to build her a pair of [TS]

00:25:57   goggles that she can actually see and it [TS]

00:26:00   was just the thought the fact that [TS]

00:26:02   someone thought this through the logical [TS]

00:26:04   conclusion i was really coming [TS]

00:26:06   you're right if you turn invisible [TS]

00:26:07   everything transition [TS]

00:26:09   you're stomping around like a around [TS]

00:26:11   unless you take your retinas visible [TS]

00:26:13   yeah [TS]

00:26:14   in which case your your easy to find [TS]

00:26:16   loading disk so we're not sugar but she [TS]

00:26:20   said I mean I remember things where it's [TS]

00:26:22   like I create a force field and use it [TS]

00:26:24   to punch reading it matters that but [TS]

00:26:26   it's not particular day basically she's [TS]

00:26:28   a telekinetic intresting alright because [TS]

00:26:30   it's invisible bubbles right [TS]

00:26:33   The Voice founders are probably a [TS]

00:26:34   problematic character I mean there's a [TS]

00:26:36   there's a reason why they it's it's what [TS]

00:26:40   it's violet in the incredible yeah has [TS]

00:26:42   who has the senior who wishes she could [TS]

00:26:44   be I'm singled and she's all and she's [TS]

00:26:46   all defensive to she's she's making [TS]

00:26:48   bubbles just protect the family that's [TS]

00:26:51   her role Sam deal [TS]

00:26:52   yeah I find vilest problematically [TS]

00:26:55   character because again when you're 14 [TS]

00:26:56   years old there are times when you're [TS]

00:26:57   like oh if only the earth would open up [TS]

00:26:59   and swallow me and this kid can have it [TS]

00:27:01   happen so in some ways it's it's almost [TS]

00:27:05   wish fulfillment it's also a great [TS]

00:27:06   metaphor for learning how to grapple [TS]

00:27:08   with your adolescent demons right when [TS]

00:27:09   you're talking about a grown woman it's [TS]

00:27:11   more it's more awkward in especially as [TS]

00:27:13   society has evolved since the early [TS]

00:27:16   sixties to have a grown woman mother [TS]

00:27:19   because of course the family dynamic has [TS]

00:27:22   evolved over time to married [TS]

00:27:23   mother-of-two I believe now [TS]

00:27:26   yes Tom and have her still be the you [TS]

00:27:29   know my power is to hide like I said [TS]

00:27:31   I've always wanted to be a problematic [TS]

00:27:32   character actually being five or six [TS]

00:27:34   years old and watching the Fantastic [TS]

00:27:36   Four animated series and this one [TS]

00:27:39   believed not sticks in my head 30-odd [TS]

00:27:41   years later we're sooo goes to her [TS]

00:27:42   portrait taken and so it in an evening [TS]

00:27:44   gown no less and it turns out it's an [TS]

00:27:46   elaborate ruse by dr. doom to kidnap her [TS]

00:27:49   I had no Doctor Doom has his own photo [TS]

00:27:51   studio that during raids well this is [TS]

00:27:53   the thing it was a camera where the [TS]

00:27:54   minute the minute the lens snap these [TS]

00:27:56   ropes came out and bounds to head to [TS]

00:27:57   foot and offers out of the camera [TS]

00:28:00   yes yes and she freaks the hell out [TS]

00:28:02   pardon my language and they spend the [TS]

00:28:04   rest of the episode trying to try to [TS]

00:28:05   rescue her and I even as a five-year-old [TS]

00:28:07   I was all what the fudge why mention my [TS]

00:28:11   way she's forced to behold the face if [TS]

00:28:14   you will that sounds like a platform in [TS]

00:28:16   spider-man 67 [TS]

00:28:17   squares i have this normal object know [TS]

00:28:19   haha there are ropes that was better [TS]

00:28:21   than you are mine and yeah it's just [TS]

00:28:24   like dr. doom agassi dr. doing that [TS]

00:28:26   cartoon series was kind of like a wily [TS]

00:28:28   coyote feelin and anyway yes everybody [TS]

00:28:30   always dr. doom [TS]

00:28:31   yeah it was every scheme no matter how [TS]

00:28:33   elaborately setup and always failed [TS]

00:28:35   that's what makes these cartoons not so [TS]

00:28:38   sophisticated no sixties and seventies [TS]

00:28:40   really card us so maybe it's the cartoon [TS]

00:28:43   impression it's always you know maybe [TS]

00:28:45   look at su with a sort of but even if [TS]

00:28:49   you go back and take a look at the [TS]

00:28:50   seventies or sixties you had a role [TS]

00:28:52   monroe and Jean Grey and Kitty Pryde and [TS]

00:28:54   all of them seem to have a lot more [TS]

00:28:56   autonomy and a lot more respect from [TS]

00:28:58   their colleagues / friends and Sue Storm [TS]

00:29:00   ever gets you know I was like oh come on [TS]

00:29:03   you know you're super powered and the [TS]

00:29:04   best you can do is complain that no [TS]

00:29:05   one's coming to dinner so one of the [TS]

00:29:07   things that i liked about ultimate [TS]

00:29:09   Fantastic Four is that not only did it [TS]

00:29:12   replace the older man younger woman [TS]

00:29:14   relationship with two people of the same [TS]

00:29:17   age but he sue is the field leader [TS]

00:29:21   because that is is a leader and is [TS]

00:29:24   really smart and is actually if not if [TS]

00:29:27   not on par with read she is just a one [TS]

00:29:31   step down on the on the on the [TS]

00:29:33   scientific smarts department and then [TS]

00:29:35   she's got all of these other skills and [TS]

00:29:37   she you know she she kicks ass and in [TS]

00:29:40   that in and it's a it was interesting to [TS]

00:29:43   see the choices that they made to really [TS]

00:29:45   reset the dynamic there and how how in a [TS]

00:29:48   20th 21st century context perhaps that [TS]

00:29:50   relationship could we fix this [TS]

00:29:52   relationship a little bit make them more [TS]

00:29:54   witness the return elastic stretchy dude [TS]

00:29:56   and visit land you're going to do and [TS]

00:29:58   actually read is portrayed an ultimate [TS]

00:29:59   Fantastic Four especially as being kind [TS]

00:30:01   of a kind of a screw-up now and there [TS]

00:30:04   that you know he is father can't stand [TS]

00:30:05   to be socially incompetent he's an [TS]

00:30:08   isolated as he gets them almost killed [TS]

00:30:10   yeah well although I look at the [TS]

00:30:12   ultimate Fantastic Four almost as a [TS]

00:30:13   cheat like right al [TS]

00:30:16   they will they know they changed the age [TS]

00:30:18   of Reed & and did that you brought you [TS]

00:30:21   up to try to explain the relationship [TS]

00:30:22   where if you look at the mill our hitch [TS]

00:30:25   run again at which interestingly enough [TS]

00:30:27   was they had just come off the ultimate [TS]

00:30:30   with a huge commercial success [TS]

00:30:31   and it was like all this publicity the [TS]

00:30:33   next book they're gonna do and they [TS]

00:30:34   start putting out teaser images of [TS]

00:30:35   panels and and the next book was the [TS]

00:30:38   Fantastic Four and I think the first [TS]

00:30:40   couple issues sold really well and then [TS]

00:30:42   it basically tanked because people [TS]

00:30:46   weren't interested in the characters or [TS]

00:30:47   whatever but I happen to think that run [TS]

00:30:48   is so great because it focuses on the [TS]

00:30:50   family dynamic and the introduces old [TS]

00:30:52   character whose name I forget which is a [TS]

00:30:55   su refers to her as mrs fantastic [TS]

00:30:58   she's essentially Reed Richards as a [TS]

00:31:00   woman and a tjs she was back in the [TS]

00:31:03   original kirby lee Ron she's an old [TS]

00:31:05   character was like he dated in college [TS]

00:31:06   and she was his equal and super smart [TS]

00:31:10   and she's doing this big scientific [TS]

00:31:11   thing in in the comics and here of [TS]

00:31:13   course runs off with her and there's a a [TS]

00:31:15   lot of the story is about y su isn't [TS]

00:31:19   threatened by her or some of the [TS]

00:31:21   interesting things the relationship [TS]

00:31:22   between Sue and read and they kind of [TS]

00:31:24   elevate it and make it work and not [TS]

00:31:26   another even opposites attract like she [TS]

00:31:28   grounds him kind of thing but she's got [TS]

00:31:31   that earthy with mine it wasn't even [TS]

00:31:33   like that it was Arabic writing book [TS]

00:31:35   learning it was it was it was a much [TS]

00:31:36   subtler than that but they did it in in [TS]

00:31:39   such a way that she came off as a very [TS]

00:31:40   strong female interesting character that [TS]

00:31:43   you have a late and it made sense why [TS]

00:31:45   Boober genius read was attracted to her [TS]

00:31:48   and she didn't have to be super genius [TS]

00:31:49   for him to be attracted to make a [TS]

00:31:51   relationship work they clicked and it [TS]

00:31:53   was awesome seeing if it was their [TS]

00:31:54   anniversary dinner just one of those [TS]

00:31:56   nice quiet moments in a comic but they [TS]

00:31:58   don't rarely do anymore it was their [TS]

00:32:00   anniversary he went back in time took [TS]

00:32:02   her to a restaurant back in time so they [TS]

00:32:06   could sit in the restaurant she's like [TS]

00:32:07   why'd you bring me here we go what [TS]

00:32:08   significance and he's like a look and it [TS]

00:32:10   shows them it's basically the younger [TS]

00:32:12   them on the street meeting for the very [TS]

00:32:14   first time and so that was his romantic [TS]

00:32:17   gesture was like bringing them back to [TS]

00:32:18   so they could watch their first meeting [TS]

00:32:20   and I was like wow that's actually [TS]

00:32:21   really very thoughtful very thoughtful [TS]

00:32:24   yeah and it it was it made the [TS]

00:32:26   relationship work without having to [TS]

00:32:28   change it like Ultimates did because I [TS]

00:32:30   couldn't figure out how to make it work [TS]

00:32:32   that's why i say ultimate is kind of a [TS]

00:32:33   cheat it's easy to make them the same [TS]

00:32:35   you make them equal sure now they can be [TS]

00:32:37   together but to do it in a way that [TS]

00:32:38   they're not equals and yet the [TS]

00:32:40   relationship works which also could be [TS]

00:32:42   why you know it didn't sell very well [TS]

00:32:44   well it is the ultimate is a different [TS]

00:32:46   dynamic I I mean ultimate is in itself a [TS]

00:32:49   achieve it by that definition because [TS]

00:32:52   the whole idea is we take this and we're [TS]

00:32:53   kind of reimagining it and so the [TS]

00:32:55   balance of power shifts and ultimate [TS]

00:32:56   Fantastic Four Sue's dad is the general [TS]

00:32:58   and he's the one who gets them the [TS]

00:33:00   distance a building that they can have [TS]

00:33:01   all their labs and we're as ready as [TS]

00:33:03   sort of a self-made man in many ways and [TS]

00:33:06   family has disowned him and last time I [TS]

00:33:09   checked he had died i think he blew [TS]

00:33:10   himself up and they killed him and in [TS]

00:33:12   some marvel ultimate event he's actually [TS]

00:33:14   still alive is he still alive but sent [TS]

00:33:17   to the negative zone or something like [TS]

00:33:18   that I don't think he's secretly working [TS]

00:33:20   in a lab at this point or something like [TS]

00:33:21   that of course because they wouldn't [TS]

00:33:22   actually have the guts to kill the guy [TS]

00:33:24   even in the ultimate university that [TS]

00:33:26   they always like this [TS]

00:33:27   the second-stringers like the the lost [TS]

00:33:29   got eaten by the blob and things like [TS]

00:33:31   that right [TS]

00:33:32   no its disgusting yeah anyway so I hello [TS]

00:33:35   different dynamic and I have that I [TS]

00:33:37   thought if the point of the Ultimate [TS]

00:33:39   Universe is to say well what if we did [TS]

00:33:40   what if we reimagine how this might work [TS]

00:33:42   in a modern context having it be [TS]

00:33:45   different and have and say let's explore [TS]

00:33:48   what it's like with this sort of [TS]

00:33:49   different dynamic for the fantastic [TS]

00:33:50   right I thought that really worked and I [TS]

00:33:52   thought the ultimate Fantastic Four [TS]

00:33:53   started out really promising Lee didn't [TS]

00:33:55   start out strong and then kind did start [TS]

00:33:57   strong write as many of the old Mick [TS]

00:33:59   titles did yeah this is the minute you [TS]

00:34:02   start working in the traditional [TS]

00:34:03   villains I or or oh it's von doom or or [TS]

00:34:06   you know in the case of the ex minute he [TS]

00:34:08   started bringing back sinister whoever [TS]

00:34:10   like here we go this is a nod to the [TS]

00:34:12   continuity people right ultimate version [TS]

00:34:13   of X alright you know for example to the [TS]

00:34:16   next one I thought was a lot more [TS]

00:34:17   interesting when it turned out that [TS]

00:34:18   Logan had infiltrated the team because [TS]

00:34:20   he was on someone else's payroll and [TS]

00:34:23   screwed the dynamics and the trust and [TS]

00:34:24   then next thing you know [TS]

00:34:26   hey it's resolved let's move on to [TS]

00:34:27   something else right and those with [TS]

00:34:29   stuff is better when it's things like [TS]

00:34:30   kitty pryde moving next door Peter [TS]

00:34:33   Parker and getting him because like what [TS]

00:34:35   that would what that that's impossible [TS]

00:34:37   that could never happen and like all [TS]

00:34:38   right that that that kind of stuff but [TS]

00:34:40   you're right they have a tendency to [TS]

00:34:41   back it off and say well no we we don't [TS]

00:34:43   want to go down these roads which is the [TS]

00:34:45   whole point of the alternate universe [TS]

00:34:47   was to do something different [TS]

00:34:48   and the weird thing is although i do [TS]

00:34:50   like the Fantastic Four I think the one [TS]

00:34:51   character that I don't kind of cock an [TS]

00:34:53   eyebrow tis is the thing just I think [TS]

00:34:56   Benjamin Graham is a fantastic character [TS]

00:34:58   inside and out and he's the only one I [TS]

00:35:01   don't really feel ambivalent about for [TS]

00:35:02   example with well because yeah I know [TS]

00:35:05   what you said because with Johnny Storm [TS]

00:35:06   it no matter what iteration you have [TS]

00:35:08   easy he's always kind of a self-involved [TS]

00:35:10   sure quite an almost every student that [TS]

00:35:12   are really actually in the the yeah the [TS]

00:35:14   best single line in the the hitch malhar [TS]

00:35:16   book was as he was going off to join [TS]

00:35:19   this new band and talk to his publicist [TS]

00:35:21   and all this stuff is sue says my god my [TS]

00:35:24   brother is Harris Hilton Paris Hilton [TS]

00:35:26   yeah he could be very serviceable from [TS]

00:35:29   whoshere the Melbourne has helped [TS]

00:35:30   exactly anything when you think about [TS]

00:35:32   that is like yet that's Johnny Storm and [TS]

00:35:34   that's actually not an uninteresting [TS]

00:35:36   character in that kind of content [TS]

00:35:38   writers kind of exasperated in a way and [TS]

00:35:40   I I guess you're thinking about Ben [TS]

00:35:42   Grimm which is always fascinated me is [TS]

00:35:44   in many ways I feel like he's kind of [TS]

00:35:45   the most heroic of the four of them kind [TS]

00:35:47   of lute ly you've got a guy who doesn't [TS]

00:35:50   he can never blend he's never going to [TS]

00:35:52   be able to disguise himself and walk [TS]

00:35:53   among the normals and he is one of the [TS]

00:35:57   forces of will that keeps this this [TS]

00:35:58   cobbled family together despite having [TS]

00:36:00   the length of the lease sturdy claim to [TS]

00:36:03   any of them I mean he's not married any [TS]

00:36:04   of them he's not related by blood [TS]

00:36:06   no he just a schoolchild just flew a [TS]

00:36:07   rocket for his buddy and what we got for [TS]

00:36:09   it [TS]

00:36:10   he's kind of like a meteorite mixed with [TS]

00:36:12   a doula and if it and he's got the [TS]

00:36:15   wisdom of Brooklyn behind him yes he's [TS]

00:36:18   got this really large battle story where [TS]

00:36:19   you know he's got this really rich [TS]

00:36:21   backstory where it turns out he's Jewish [TS]

00:36:22   and shiver for people and he actually [TS]

00:36:25   had a bar mitzvah when he spent his [TS]

00:36:27   first 13 years is the thing because he [TS]

00:36:29   figured you know today I became a new [TS]

00:36:30   man compared to when I was just benjamin [TS]

00:36:32   graham and that kind of selflessness [TS]

00:36:35   they do a really the reddest voice [TS]

00:36:37   always did a really good job of not [TS]

00:36:38   beating you over the head with it where [TS]

00:36:40   you know it's kind of submerged and so [TS]

00:36:42   he loves Pete said he loves to arm [TS]

00:36:44   wrestle with Colossus and he's always [TS]

00:36:45   quickie and again I feel like he's the [TS]

00:36:48   real unsung hero of the series and it [TS]

00:36:50   always kind of baffled me that Reed [TS]

00:36:51   Richards is always the leader of the [TS]

00:36:52   team when he's the idea guy for the team [TS]

00:36:55   everybody else kind of does the heavy [TS]

00:36:56   lifting when it comes to execution [TS]

00:36:59   well I'm Ben [TS]

00:36:59   been sort of the moral is the grounded [TS]

00:37:01   one right i mean you have to say it [TS]

00:37:03   that's sort of the idea identities that [TS]

00:37:04   he's the earthy grounded got some [TS]

00:37:06   sterile analogues to Earth Wind to earth [TS]

00:37:08   fire air and water [TS]

00:37:10   I guess he is the grounded one asked me [TS]

00:37:12   to see the earth analog and reduce the [TS]

00:37:13   water analog and soon as the air analog [TS]

00:37:16   you know in back in the mid-70s a [TS]

00:37:18   recognized he was the most important [TS]

00:37:20   character and made a cartoon of just the [TS]

00:37:22   thing if you don't remember max here I [TS]

00:37:25   would have loved to see that but i dont [TS]

00:37:27   even Marvel team-up to write you would [TS]

00:37:28   who works better with others than the [TS]

00:37:31   thing about her man would be it you can [TS]

00:37:33   Wolverine for some reason to and one [TS]

00:37:35   full version is it on like five [TS]

00:37:36   different marble teams this point right [TS]

00:37:38   for this was different i think it a [TS]

00:37:40   loner thing is also on the Avengers now [TS]

00:37:42   but the thing cartoon you should youtube [TS]

00:37:44   it because of course you took the thing [TS]

00:37:46   and made him a teenager who had thing [TS]

00:37:49   rings that you would put together and he [TS]

00:37:50   would say thing rings do your thing and [TS]

00:37:53   he would become the big rocky guy that [TS]

00:37:55   kind of undercuts the essential tragedy [TS]

00:37:57   the character because if you can turn it [TS]

00:37:58   on and off [TS]

00:37:59   yeah he also had a dune buggy which is [TS]

00:38:02   pretty cool and everybody's and [TS]

00:38:05   remarried is the best parts of boys it [TS]

00:38:08   was the it was the thing Flintstones our [TS]

00:38:11   system and in the opening animation you [TS]

00:38:15   have fun with Fred Flintstone and the [TS]

00:38:16   teenager with his thing rings doing his [TS]

00:38:18   thing and grim the teenager I really [TS]

00:38:23   glad you too much so I would learn too [TS]

00:38:25   late they took to grasp that right i [TS]

00:38:29   only have vague memories of it [TS]

00:38:30   oh and i was like one day I did look on [TS]

00:38:33   youtube and sure enough [TS]

00:38:35   oh I hope it gets to hulu at some point [TS]

00:38:36   every or that the Japanese spider-man is [TS]

00:38:39   was my find on the internet if you see [TS]

00:38:41   the Japanese a better man show [TS]

00:38:42   marvel.com was actually streaming that [TS]

00:38:45   for he had the big robots 00 it is it's [TS]

00:38:48   like it's like a manatee of Agriculture [TS]

00:38:51   man or anything like that extent our [TS]

00:38:52   Rangers considered accepting spider-man [TS]

00:38:54   oh no I when he can't beat the villain [TS]

00:38:56   he gets into his giant spider man robot [TS]

00:38:58   yes seriously there there so you know [TS]

00:39:01   it's funny more have profound [TS]

00:39:02   ambivalence about robots and comics [TS]

00:39:04   culture anyway so why not make it better [TS]

00:39:06   so Marvel had this whole the whole [TS]

00:39:07   period in the sixties and seventies [TS]

00:39:08   world where they did the licensing need [TS]

00:39:10   a live-action stuff and they're Japanese [TS]

00:39:11   shows they're all [TS]

00:39:12   all these cartoons and I you know the [TS]

00:39:14   the original spider-man cartoon and [TS]

00:39:15   spider-man and his amazing friends [TS]

00:39:17   the Fantastic Four cartoon where they [TS]

00:39:18   dropped the human torch because they [TS]

00:39:20   were afraid kids we try to light [TS]

00:39:21   themselves on fire and stuck in the [TS]

00:39:23   robot and had her beautiful bottoms dead [TS]

00:39:25   yesterday and had that story [TS]

00:39:27   ya see that it right the whole and [TS]

00:39:29   Herbie was evil when controlled by the [TS]

00:39:32   time computer that's right and they also [TS]

00:39:34   had that kid who did who is a fan of the [TS]

00:39:36   human torch in the comic who lit himself [TS]

00:39:38   on fire [TS]

00:39:39   I say and then one of those heartwarming [TS]

00:39:41   somatic tell ya [TS]

00:39:43   so they went through that period and [TS]

00:39:45   then Marvel had been it's sort of [TS]

00:39:46   financial problems and some bad deals [TS]

00:39:48   and didn't do anything for a long time [TS]

00:39:50   and then it came out of that the end of [TS]

00:39:52   the nineties and started again with [TS]

00:39:55   another wave of things like the x-men [TS]

00:39:56   movies in the spider-man movies and [TS]

00:39:59   horrible and we will Fantastic Four to [TS]

00:40:02   Fantastic Four movie I dragged my [TS]

00:40:04   husband to the first one that was a [TS]

00:40:05   payback thing for you owe me and and I'm [TS]

00:40:09   going to make you suffer through this [TS]

00:40:10   and i didn't realize i would also be [TS]

00:40:12   suffering that's it [TS]

00:40:14   yes heard bad i actually thought the [TS]

00:40:16   second was better than the first one and [TS]

00:40:18   I said yeah right because somebody asked [TS]

00:40:20   me about this and no no I'm not saying [TS]

00:40:22   it's good i'm just saying it's better [TS]

00:40:24   than the right the first ones we have in [TS]

00:40:26   the cold having a flow [TS]

00:40:27   the first one is so abysmal amazingly [TS]

00:40:31   terrible that it's mind-boggling at [TS]

00:40:33   least the second one has sort of you [TS]

00:40:35   know [TS]

00:40:35   laurence fishburne is the voice of the [TS]

00:40:37   silver surfer Andre Braugher is the [TS]

00:40:39   general yeah there's there's there's [TS]

00:40:41   some Galactus stuff although they below [TS]

00:40:43   the Galactic story by making it not it [TS]

00:40:45   as interesting as the either ultimate [TS]

00:40:47   Fantastic Four's Galactus or the regular [TS]

00:40:49   Galactus it's just kind of a flock of [TS]

00:40:52   black sea galley things that it sits [TS]

00:40:56   right I think that's fantastic for movie [TS]

00:40:58   was the incredibles be incredible yeah [TS]

00:41:01   well the the live action one with [TS]

00:41:04   strangers they got so much of the [TS]

00:41:05   casting right [TS]

00:41:07   for example i will i will argue that you [TS]

00:41:08   and Griffin could have been a great [TS]

00:41:10   mister mister fantastic and i would [TS]

00:41:12   argue exactly the haha because he just [TS]

00:41:15   has that as a screen presence he always [TS]

00:41:17   has that kind of remove any way and [TS]

00:41:19   it's it's sort of that mmm yes sir i'm [TS]

00:41:22   floating in the ether of my big thoughts [TS]

00:41:23   and and I thought that presence work [TS]

00:41:25   well but he just connected with nobody [TS]

00:41:27   but i see i actually didn't get that [TS]

00:41:29   sort of ether edge got that he was so [TS]

00:41:31   slight both physically like his if he [TS]

00:41:34   had such a slight president yeah and I [TS]

00:41:36   don't think of your injury does even [TS]

00:41:38   though Reed Richards is often his own [TS]

00:41:39   hair back to that doctor who had podcast [TS]

00:41:42   matt smith's rendition of the doctor is [TS]

00:41:45   much more mr. fantastic then that guy's [TS]

00:41:47   was as mr. fantastic you're right you're [TS]

00:41:49   you know your sort of Rights that sort [TS]

00:41:51   of scattered and i'm not entirely [TS]

00:41:53   connected to humanity write the music [TS]

00:41:55   Chris Evans who plays the human torch i [TS]

00:41:58   actually thought encapsulated some of [TS]

00:41:59   that I'm are on my amateur common [TS]

00:42:01   rockstar right i don't care who you are [TS]

00:42:03   and you simply science has an obvious [TS]

00:42:06   that right let's go check it was a good [TS]

00:42:07   thing and which is why it's a little [TS]

00:42:10   strange in because i started watching no [TS]

00:42:12   ordinary family right which is basically [TS]

00:42:14   it's almost another dimension we posted [TS]

00:42:15   a podcast about how did I wish I'd yes [TS]

00:42:19   made the time for that but you know [TS]

00:42:21   which is basically a variation on the [TS]

00:42:22   Fantastic Four [TS]

00:42:24   yes and what it is so it's a little bit [TS]

00:42:26   of a cognitive distance to have Chiklis [TS]

00:42:28   is it playing again the thing except [TS]

00:42:30   without the big scaling right stuff in a [TS]

00:42:32   rocks this time yet rocks are expensive [TS]

00:42:34   yeah but you know I thought chipper was [TS]

00:42:36   great i will make the argument for you [TS]

00:42:37   and Griffin I think Julian McMahon was [TS]

00:42:39   very good as dr. doom because he sort of [TS]

00:42:40   traffic's not kind of medicine tourism [TS]

00:42:42   didn't want to say anything I didn't [TS]

00:42:44   like him at all [TS]

00:42:45   you know maybe it's because i also [TS]

00:42:47   watched nip talk and he was really good [TS]

00:42:49   as as just a complete moral voice on [TS]

00:42:51   that show so so that carried over was [TS]

00:42:54   why I was was horribly constructed where [TS]

00:42:56   he was just like a a wrong guy who [TS]

00:42:59   wanted to steal the Terran I think [TS]

00:43:01   documents are you to do one film why and [TS]

00:43:03   I've been in hollywood filled with lots [TS]

00:43:05   and lots of blonde waspy starlets do you [TS]

00:43:07   go with Jessica Jessica Alba so yes in a [TS]

00:43:10   movie with arguably many casting [TS]

00:43:12   problems [TS]

00:43:13   jessica alba was the biggest she's so [TS]

00:43:16   vapid right and soon let's just go to [TS]

00:43:19   the road that invisible in a second to [TS]

00:43:22   first off you take you take the the the [TS]

00:43:24   hot girl who's who's famous because [TS]

00:43:26   she's hot and you make her in visible [TS]

00:43:28   brilliant [TS]

00:43:30   yeah right and and then you know okay [TS]

00:43:33   dr. that already has some problems as [TS]

00:43:34   we've discussed with with how she's [TS]

00:43:36   portrayed and what her role is and then [TS]

00:43:39   you give that part to somebody who is [TS]

00:43:41   capable of standing there looking pretty [TS]

00:43:43   tiny that's the aside from checklist [TS]

00:43:45   they really didn't hire actors who could [TS]

00:43:48   act they hired pretty people who are [TS]

00:43:51   good at being pretty which works for the [TS]

00:43:53   human torch I i argue right so maybe [TS]

00:43:55   that was just now that I can't look at [TS]

00:43:57   it anymore after america which I those [TS]

00:43:59   pictures of multiple freaky [TS]

00:44:00   yeah I don't know yeah I'm nervous about [TS]

00:44:03   that casting as well yeah I just think [TS]

00:44:05   they missed the mark where the knowing [TS]

00:44:07   the x-men which that those films had [TS]

00:44:09   some problems to it always bothered me [TS]

00:44:11   that Hugh Jackman doesn't look like [TS]

00:44:13   wolverine he's not what he seems way too [TS]

00:44:15   tall and all the others a ranking at [TS]

00:44:17   least he could act okay [TS]

00:44:19   andrena right now he got he nailed it [TS]

00:44:21   right even though good actor he didn't [TS]

00:44:22   you like it to me but he was will bring [TS]

00:44:25   right that is the higher good actors [TS]

00:44:27   sort of role for superheroes Fantastic [TS]

00:44:30   Four just missed that like day in class [TS]

00:44:31   with ya the studio's higher good actor [TS]

00:44:34   yeah well to sidebar from and there's [TS]

00:44:36   things there's a story circle and [TS]

00:44:37   circulate last week about hiring jon [TS]

00:44:39   hamm to play Superman and in the i think [TS]

00:44:41   was well you'd have to go with some of [TS]

00:44:43   the Superman is obviously age since jon [TS]

00:44:44   Hamm's very visibly in his late thirties [TS]

00:44:46   as opposed to the fresh-faced [TS]

00:44:47   20-somethings that have occupied the [TS]

00:44:49   world before the whole key of Superman [TS]

00:44:51   is man [TS]

00:44:52   yeah but he needs to yeah well that's my [TS]

00:44:54   super boy [TS]

00:44:55   yeah and it got me thinking about how [TS]

00:44:56   difficult it is actually to cast for any [TS]

00:44:59   of these any of these things because it [TS]

00:45:01   comes down to the tension between really [TS]

00:45:02   attractive people because let's face it [TS]

00:45:03   most superheroes are our pen ready brand [TS]

00:45:06   x we're good-looking me giving well they [TS]

00:45:08   are always and women always have [TS]

00:45:11   anti-gravity breasts are apparently just [TS]

00:45:13   a superpower every woman so you know how [TS]

00:45:15   do you find somebody who is presumably [TS]

00:45:17   attractive enough to to be physically [TS]

00:45:19   believable and yet capable of managing [TS]

00:45:21   to act and it's it's gotta be tough but [TS]

00:45:23   you just hire actors who can play the [TS]

00:45:26   parts like you know you can say that [TS]

00:45:28   Downey jr. there doesn't actually look [TS]

00:45:30   like a tony stark or multi-millionaire [TS]

00:45:32   industrialist got it [TS]

00:45:34   that's right the busted but that's a [TS]

00:45:35   whole thing you totally believe it yeah [TS]

00:45:37   because he can act [TS]

00:45:38   yeah yes Denzel Washington once [TS]

00:45:40   commented that if Hollywood was casting [TS]

00:45:42   race blind he would have been a good [TS]

00:45:43   Superman and the more I thought about it [TS]

00:45:44   the more I thought that yeah absolutely [TS]

00:45:45   I would have totally I would have [TS]

00:45:46   totally bought Denzel Washington is a [TS]

00:45:48   Superman especially since I was on [TS]

00:45:50   Denzel Washington is james bond that's [TS]

00:45:52   it has that calls you always have you [TS]

00:45:54   and your husband cast the the black [TS]

00:45:56   adventures [TS]

00:45:58   now we on I just I know you guys like to [TS]

00:46:01   play casting case isn't ever could [TS]

00:46:03   explain okay so i'm giving her a blank [TS]

00:46:06   look right outside bar [TS]

00:46:08   ok sidebar the sidebar my husband and I [TS]

00:46:10   were talking after with the denzel [TS]

00:46:12   washington movie i began ranting and [TS]

00:46:13   raving about how there's an entire [TS]

00:46:14   generation of minority actors who [TS]

00:46:16   actually would make fantastic [TS]

00:46:18   superheroes for example i was i was [TS]

00:46:20   arguing that Dwayne Johnson could [TS]

00:46:22   plausibly play Superman like character [TS]

00:46:24   or any superhero [TS]

00:46:26   I mean he's got charisma the--in yang [TS]

00:46:27   the man can rock spandex as we saw from [TS]

00:46:29   his WWE days you know and he's kind of [TS]

00:46:32   like a rock looking he's cooking [TS]

00:46:34   superhero soup [TS]

00:46:35   yeah so that and what this turned into [TS]

00:46:37   is is my husband saying okay let's turn [TS]

00:46:40   back now into an african-american [TS]

00:46:41   character which again is very similar to [TS]

00:46:43   what J michael Straczynski did with his [TS]

00:46:46   squadron supreme pizzas that was a [TS]

00:46:48   budget supreme and I thought okay Don [TS]

00:46:50   Cheadle Batman that's obvious and so [TS]

00:46:52   instead of being rohde & and be more [TS]

00:46:56   machine and I'm you have to get that and [TS]

00:46:58   we went and we basically the casting [TS]

00:47:00   everybody from there and I said this is [TS]

00:47:02   why do Jason's look at discuss [TS]

00:47:03   nationwide casting game is so much fun [TS]

00:47:05   yeah is that it brings out sort of [TS]

00:47:06   everybody's vision everybody's carrying [TS]

00:47:08   really right way but i think is their [TS]

00:47:10   sample else argued the Queen Latifah [TS]

00:47:11   could be Commissioner Gordon because [TS]

00:47:12   she's just got the best i'm down like [TS]

00:47:14   I'm yeah yeah yeah I'm and Andre has [TS]

00:47:17   sounds like a seventies not my patient [TS]

00:47:19   my dream actually I think it's better [TS]

00:47:21   because i thought well you know you have [TS]

00:47:22   Andre Braugher as the riddler because [TS]

00:47:24   the way you would write this Riddler is [TS]

00:47:26   he'd be so much smarter than the rest of [TS]

00:47:28   humanity feel profoundly isolated and [TS]

00:47:30   resentful and he'd be acting on that and [TS]

00:47:33   Andre barrister kind of actor who can [TS]

00:47:35   convincingly you know portray that while [TS]

00:47:38   i slowly know that he's cuckoo for cocoa [TS]

00:47:39   since this is an interesting thing to [TS]

00:47:41   explore because there are characters [TS]

00:47:43   like Batman that there's there's [TS]

00:47:45   many many many different interpretation [TS]

00:47:47   right are all valid Batman last Michael [TS]

00:47:49   Ryton fell Kilmer language Clooney but [TS]

00:47:51   you know that you have super detective [TS]

00:47:53   Batman the world's greatest detective [TS]

00:47:54   you also have my parents were killed I'm [TS]

00:47:56   a psychopath Batman and everything in [TS]

00:47:58   between [TS]

00:47:59   that would be a social activist he'd be [TS]

00:48:01   rich either through his own making or [TS]

00:48:02   through inherited money and he'd be [TS]

00:48:05   taking a look at his disintegrating [TS]

00:48:06   Gotham which is a Baltimore analog or [TS]

00:48:08   Detroit analog and he'd be like clearly [TS]

00:48:11   the system isn't working on making [TS]

00:48:13   myself the system and but you have that [TS]

00:48:15   to read for the wire version that man [TS]

00:48:18   without a consignment Batman but the the [TS]

00:48:21   thing is fantastic for me to bring this [TS]

00:48:24   back full circle of fantastic for it [TS]

00:48:26   doesn't have those different versions [TS]

00:48:28   know it's a reason there's many villages [TS]

00:48:30   Richards is Reed Richards let you know [TS]

00:48:32   Batman has all these different [TS]

00:48:33   iterations so which makes casting hard [TS]

00:48:36   you wouldn't think fantastic for which [TS]

00:48:37   has no iterations really like everybody [TS]

00:48:40   Ben Grimm is Ben Grimm and there isn't [TS]

00:48:41   like there was the happy Ben Grimm the [TS]

00:48:43   well the difficult lyrics right [TS]

00:48:45   the difficulty is Reed Richards kind of [TS]

00:48:47   a tough character crack and I think some [TS]

00:48:49   of that well I mean he's he's a he's a [TS]

00:48:52   an egghead he's a leader sort supposedly [TS]

00:48:56   he's a man of action because he's got [TS]

00:48:58   these superpowers [TS]

00:49:00   I think one of the reasons that it might [TS]

00:49:01   be hard to cast Reed Richards is because [TS]

00:49:03   that character is kind of a weird [TS]

00:49:05   amalgam of traits and and some creators [TS]

00:49:08   have done better with him than others [TS]

00:49:10   right you know Ben Grimm is easier right [TS]

00:49:13   and johnny is actually easier [TS]

00:49:15   sooo i think you know just we're gonna [TS]

00:49:17   miss with just cal but they were there [TS]

00:49:19   are better options that the actor Reno [TS]

00:49:22   you can fit on lots of different [TS]

00:49:23   directions [TS]

00:49:24   Robert Downey jr. could probably even do [TS]

00:49:26   Reed Richards home [TS]

00:49:28   are you guys familiar with the site [TS]

00:49:29   mighty God king.com know it's a Canadian [TS]

00:49:32   writers name and lawyers name is [TS]

00:49:34   Christopher Byrd and he blogs about [TS]

00:49:35   comics a lot of the site called mighty [TS]

00:49:37   God king.com and back when Marvel did [TS]

00:49:40   Civil War arc and all the titans he [TS]

00:49:44   really basically rewrote the dialogue is [TS]

00:49:46   a parody and satire and the reason I [TS]

00:49:48   bring this up is because i actually [TS]

00:49:50   think he's got one of the most spot on [TS]

00:49:51   Reed Richards where he's managed to make [TS]

00:49:53   a parody of the character but [TS]

00:49:56   get to the heart of the the guy who [TS]

00:49:57   again you know was thinking on a [TS]

00:49:59   completely different plane as the rest [TS]

00:50:00   of us where the very last issue that he [TS]

00:50:03   rewrote his Reed Richards writing a [TS]

00:50:04   letter to see which is we have two [TS]

00:50:06   children don't worry i think the girl in [TS]

00:50:08   the boy if that's what they are I think [TS]

00:50:10   they miss you and you and I go to end [TS]

00:50:13   its hilarious at the same time without [TS]

00:50:15   yeah this guy has managed to nail his [TS]

00:50:16   character and that's part of the problem [TS]

00:50:18   is American cinema has kind of been a [TS]

00:50:21   reflexive tendency to really dislike [TS]

00:50:23   intellectuals like they just think that [TS]

00:50:25   audiences can connect with them right [TS]

00:50:26   and there has to be there has to be more [TS]

00:50:28   than being huge brain it no not always [TS]

00:50:30   sometimes you just have somebody who's [TS]

00:50:32   really smart and they're much smarter [TS]

00:50:33   than you are and yeah I'm not sure I [TS]

00:50:35   believe will get that that read in the [TS]

00:50:38   live-action fantastic four movies was [TS]

00:50:39   that smart [TS]

00:50:40   no I didn't feel smart from you have I [TS]

00:50:43   told us he was smart I think that's what [TS]

00:50:45   they try think that's where Howard [TS]

00:50:47   Griffin was trying to play it as though [TS]

00:50:48   you know I think my lofty thoughts and I [TS]

00:50:51   don't think through the consequences and [TS]

00:50:52   so I spent a lot of time looking stunned [TS]

00:50:53   in the headlights that mark guy because [TS]

00:50:55   he really did i will i will give you [TS]

00:50:57   guys this he really did spend a lot of [TS]

00:50:59   time both movies just kind of like Shh [TS]

00:51:01   what just happened oh my god right [TS]

00:51:03   before projections didn't take this into [TS]

00:51:04   account even if you're that smart they [TS]

00:51:06   do they should [TS]

00:51:07   yeah it's the thought 36 things down the [TS]

00:51:10   road I think it's back to the American [TS]

00:51:12   devaluation of of brainpower words oh [TS]

00:51:14   you think you're so smart but you didn't [TS]

00:51:16   think about this their digital Einstein [TS]

00:51:17   your you know I checked you're right we [TS]

00:51:21   do values to pity George would work with [TS]

00:51:24   the people who wanted the people and [TS]

00:51:26   artists one nothing with Stephen Colbert [TS]

00:51:28   to right right yeah we're smart enough [TS]

00:51:30   to know what's real [TS]

00:51:32   without the need of fat readiness and [TS]

00:51:34   yes that truthiness is what is important [TS]

00:51:36   yeah i think you know so I think about [TS]

00:51:38   what I know it's what I feel in here [TS]

00:51:39   yeah i feel that i might know thanks for [TS]

00:51:42   evidence so so before we go because [TS]

00:51:44   we're running out of time [TS]

00:51:45   um I wanted to get Jason you seem to [TS]

00:51:47   have done the most homework here what we [TS]

00:51:49   anybody want to throw out as the [TS]

00:51:51   essential reading if they want to if [TS]

00:51:53   they're struck by this podcast to go [TS]

00:51:55   back and read some fantastic four will [TS]

00:51:57   throw in any way to spend well I'm [TS]

00:52:00   stupid unstable molecules worth a look [TS]

00:52:02   unstable molecules i think is actually [TS]

00:52:04   just a good comic if you like comics I [TS]

00:52:06   agree I [TS]

00:52:07   great nothing to do with the Fantastic [TS]

00:52:09   Four it's just a good read it is now the [TS]

00:52:11   original you read the original leaker p [TS]

00:52:13   run i have the holdup [TS]

00:52:17   no yeah no it doesn't hold up in the [TS]

00:52:21   sense that you know you would put it [TS]

00:52:23   against like comics today as far as [TS]

00:52:25   storytelling and paste and all that but [TS]

00:52:27   for like a view of sixties mentality you [TS]

00:52:30   know that they're getting into the [TS]

00:52:31   rocket and those original strips there's [TS]

00:52:33   a great panel were like yeah I think Ben [TS]

00:52:36   Graham says oh you know maybe I don't [TS]

00:52:37   know if this is ready yet and Reed [TS]

00:52:39   Richards response do you want the [TS]

00:52:41   commies to beat us you are you Howard [TS]

00:52:43   you so just the sort of Cold War sixties [TS]

00:52:46   mentality in the comic it's great and [TS]

00:52:48   Kirby's artwork is fantastic and it was [TS]

00:52:50   just the beginning not intended [TS]

00:52:52   that's considered to be their best work [TS]

00:52:53   right meow again and the introduction of [TS]

00:52:55   the silver surfer and Galactus and [TS]

00:52:57   there's some great stuff right in there [TS]

00:52:59   but it's more anthropological like it's [TS]

00:53:02   an interesting trip [TS]

00:53:04   how does the burn run hold up burn run [TS]

00:53:06   holds up really really well in my mind [TS]

00:53:07   that's like it has a set different [TS]

00:53:09   science fiction it also has those great [TS]

00:53:11   character moments [TS]

00:53:12   although it doesn't hold up as them as a [TS]

00:53:14   family as much more interested in them [TS]

00:53:15   as individuals and the science-fiction [TS]

00:53:17   aspects of I when he brought the [TS]

00:53:19   she-hulk into yeah that was kind of fun [TS]

00:53:21   isn't just a do not everybody there was [TS]

00:53:23   so many stories and like you had in the [TS]

00:53:25   eighties we're halfway through the issue [TS]

00:53:27   you're like is this one issue because [TS]

00:53:29   you get a complete story with a [TS]

00:53:30   beginning middle and they go somewhere [TS]

00:53:32   the introduces new science fiction [TS]

00:53:33   concepts and some alien has taken over [TS]

00:53:35   whatever and they're like all caught and [TS]

00:53:37   then they're escaping and then they get [TS]

00:53:38   out you're like holy shit that was 22 [TS]

00:53:40   pages now what wow [TS]

00:53:43   also watch the doctor who references [TS]

00:53:44   because john byrne being canadian grand [TS]

00:53:47   experiment a lot of Doctor Who and and [TS]

00:53:49   there are so many doctor who references [TS]

00:53:52   that he sort of lifts actually he were [TS]

00:53:54   sort of steals things from dr. and puts [TS]

00:53:56   them in fantastic four students it is [TS]

00:53:57   that after the kirby run which you can [TS]

00:53:59   all get an essential paid trade [TS]

00:54:01   paperbacks which are like 14 box or you [TS]

00:54:03   can get in the coffee table [TS]

00:54:05   hundred-dollar oversized hardcover [TS]

00:54:07   edition the burn run you can get in [TS]

00:54:09   trade paperbacks I think there's like [TS]

00:54:10   nine of them though it was a pretty big [TS]

00:54:12   yeah run and then i would say the mill [TS]

00:54:16   our hitch which is much more recent [TS]

00:54:17   modern storytelling pacing field which [TS]

00:54:20   is like to trade paper [TS]

00:54:21   max but to show how bad did commercially [TS]

00:54:25   they didn't never did like the hardcover [TS]

00:54:27   oversized which they don't have every [TS]

00:54:29   other hitch artwork because here the [TS]

00:54:30   artwork is beautiful but they didn't do [TS]

00:54:33   it with that they did solicit it but it [TS]

00:54:35   never came out with on orders were that [TS]

00:54:37   low which is chalking I think those [TS]

00:54:40   three there's an interesting uh nothing [TS]

00:54:43   with this thing rings doing his thing [TS]

00:54:44   right i think of anything a dear [TS]

00:54:46   listeners out there that you should get [TS]

00:54:48   out of this unstable molecules great [TS]

00:54:50   read [TS]

00:54:51   check out youtube for a thing ring do [TS]

00:54:53   your thing which is just fantastic and [TS]

00:54:59   the website you just mentioned mighty [TS]

00:55:02   God king.com yeah yeah [TS]

00:55:04   look for the Civil War PDFs that he's [TS]

00:55:06   got there because they're just fantastic [TS]

00:55:08   they were very funny and then we didn't [TS]

00:55:09   really touch on it but so do we we don't [TS]

00:55:12   talk about 1600 do more the game the [TS]

00:55:14   planetary oh and planetary khosh we're [TS]

00:55:17   gonna have to do just a planetary [TS]

00:55:18   podcast on giants worthless own but [TS]

00:55:20   planetary had to take on the Fantastic [TS]

00:55:22   Four in 1602 i really liked how that how [TS]

00:55:23   they had read and and and dr. doom and [TS]

00:55:26   and that was Neil came in right now we [TS]

00:55:28   haven't even yeah yeah he really good [TS]

00:55:30   ideas because stock-in-trade he's [TS]

00:55:31   playing and donated all of the proceeds [TS]

00:55:33   to that one to his the comics legal [TS]

00:55:36   defense fund for a miracle man marvel is [TS]

00:55:38   basically a finger to segment not Seth [TS]

00:55:42   MacFarlane todd mcfarlane I like the [TS]

00:55:43   other McFarland the finger because I [TS]

00:55:45   don't think family guy's funny but sorry [TS]

00:55:47   everybody but Todd McFarland yes who [TS]

00:55:50   screwed him out what's happening is [TS]

00:55:52   really going at it and it's still [TS]

00:55:54   happening anyway 1602 is great i bought [TS]

00:55:56   the heart number of that it is our and [TS]

00:55:58   another again another nice standalone [TS]

00:56:00   piece of work you don't actually need to [TS]

00:56:01   know anything about continuity but if [TS]

00:56:03   you ever read Marvel Comics you will get [TS]

00:56:05   a kick out of seeing these characters in [TS]

00:56:07   a seventeenth-century setting early 17th [TS]

00:56:11   century setting it is brilliant the [TS]

00:56:13   Daniel given guy he's he's good he's [TS]

00:56:16   going places her head of my things [TS]

00:56:17   pretty good if he if he works hard [TS]

00:56:20   yeah that's right and two ND his [TS]

00:56:21   wheaties right comes up with some [TS]

00:56:23   original ideas [TS]

00:56:24   yep alright well thank you the comic [TS]

00:56:26   book club members once again for coming [TS]

00:56:28   in Jason private thanks a lot thank you [TS]

00:56:29   Lisa Schmeisser thank you for coming [TS]

00:56:31   thank you and I'm Jason Snelling until [TS]

00:56:33   next time thanks for listening to the [TS]

00:56:35   incomparable podcast and now it's [TS]

00:56:37   clobberin time frame on this has been [TS]

00:56:44   the incomparable podcast musical sadly [TS]

00:56:47   and conquerable dot-com [TS]

00:56:57   [Music] [TS]