The Incomparable

6: Go Ahead, Lisa, Destroy My Childhood


  the incomparable podcast number six [TS]

  September 2010 [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  we're back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

  I'm Jason Snell the topic today is comic [TS]

  book club yay and joining me are the [TS]

  fellow members of the comic book club [TS]

  jason reitman a and Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

  hello [TS]

  alright so we're back we managed to make [TS]

  it to a second one that is always a good [TS]

  milestone [TS]

  that's right we're doubling its easy to [TS]

  do one it's like the first annual now [TS]

  it's a recurring feature it is here now [TS]

  we don't know recurring right I really [TS]

  issue to sales drop well yeah after [TS]

  after an issue one that's the sophomore [TS]

  slump but you figure after five or six [TS]

  podcast we can release the trade version [TS]

  of the podcast where it's all bound [TS]

  together one long conversation [TS]

  alright we can sketch in some of the [TS]

  stuff we cut out of the podcast because [TS]

  it wasn't worth listening to and we can [TS]

  stick it in the end and call it added [TS]

  value and charge you more for it right [TS]

  so that the introduction or give us the [TS]

  introduction [TS]

  we've got to get a celebrity to do that [TS]

  for I read it yes so ever know it'll [TS]

  just be one of the other people from one [TS]

  of the other episodes of the [TS]

  uncomfortable i'll just have you know [TS]

  Dan more and we read a little [TS]

  introduction I always wanted to be on [TS]

  this but it just never worked out [TS]

  I enjoy listening to the comparables [TS]

  comic book up public lat [TS]

  although i am not a member yes something [TS]

  like that anyway welcome thanks for [TS]

  coming in we are all present in person [TS]

  which is so I know it will shock the [TS]

  listeners to know not always the case [TS]

  when we record these podcast many many [TS]

  times we have to keep people locked in [TS]

  their little homes and and use the [TS]

  internet i'm gonna have to skype in a [TS]

  few months [TS]

  okay yeah yes I went there so there's a [TS]

  young future comic book reader on the [TS]

  way you so so that will be a challenge [TS]

  we always going to say we should get a [TS]

  couple of these in the can before you [TS]

  know one on maternity leave so that we [TS]

  can know Lisa still reading comics sure [TS]

  yes all timely references have been [TS]

  removed but for his haha so i just read [TS]

  this apocalypse plotline x-men what is [TS]

  that about this kid pride gonna stay [TS]

  with the x-men gonna be very well the [TS]

  great thing about comics they recycle [TS]

  the same story every decade or so so we [TS]

  still be very timely yes example good [TS]

  cables on the rise [TS]

  it all comes around again I am I so to [TS]

  start out [TS]

  I thought we would talk about TV I know [TS]

  this is not the TV podcast is the comic [TS]

  book club but the worlds of TV and [TS]

  movies and comic books are colliding in [TS]

  fact some might say that the comic book [TS]

  industry is rapidly becoming an R&D lab [TS]

  for the movie and TV industry and that [TS]

  the publishing aspect of it is more of [TS]

  an adjunct tenant and a little niche [TS]

  product where the the main business I [TS]

  and I don't think this is unreasonable [TS]

  to say this but the main business of [TS]

  comic book publishing is coming up with [TS]

  properties and stories I single [TS]

  properties you have to create creating I [TS]

  mean why disney by Marvel around you [TS]

  your they wanted these these characters [TS]

  and they've got more storylines that [TS]

  they can work into TV shows and they can [TS]

  work in to move and I know this is gonna [TS]

  be painful but the truth is there's no [TS]

  money in publishing what I was a blog [TS]

  post on the beat today that was taking a [TS]

  look at the salary breakdowns and [TS]

  they're currently paying editors about [TS]

  30 to 45 thousand dollars see and [TS]

  they're paying Community Managers twice [TS]

  that alright with it and that's actually [TS]

  a shocking thing about the comic [TS]

  companies how little these people are [TS]

  paid and they it's partially because [TS]

  it's such a fan audience that even if [TS]

  any of these editors complained and was [TS]

  like I need more money and less like a [TS]

  lucky break the job there's also like 30 [TS]

  other people who would want to do with [TS]

  the hill to be in that seat the argument [TS]

  would be most of them can actually do [TS]

  the job but some of them can right right [TS]

  yeah when you're interested in being in [TS]

  the media right that's the thread being [TS]

  a writer or an editor is especially [TS]

  writer like Oh everybody's a writer [TS]

  everybody is willing to be a writer and [TS]

  it may not be good [TS]

  their job they maybe you just don't know [TS]

  but there's a large pool of talent out [TS]

  there that even if they don't make [TS]

  headaches for their boss they will get [TS]

  hired [TS]

  that's right but i always thought that [TS]

  there was a kind of natural affinity [TS]

  between comics and television because [TS]

  both of them tend to rely on very [TS]

  episodic storytelling we're even if you [TS]

  have self-contained issues or [TS]

  self-contained episodes of a TV show [TS]

  both comics and TV reward you sticking [TS]

  with it in the long term and and having [TS]

  these serialize regularly scheduled [TS]

  investments in your time and energy so [TS]

  it's kind of a natural shift to say that [TS]

  I go [TS]

  really walking dead once a month to [TS]

  watching an episode of once a week on TV [TS]

  interesting though I think that's kind [TS]

  of switched in a way in that you know [TS]

  historically comics were that very [TS]

  cereal istic thing and you could read [TS]

  x-men for 20 years and chris claremont [TS]

  may or may not have finished the [TS]

  plotline idea where television in was [TS]

  everything I'd like a reset switch at [TS]

  the end of every episode where it didn't [TS]

  matter if you missed a few because the [TS]

  characters really don't change and now [TS]

  television he really is doing that [TS]

  rewarding you know in the last decade or [TS]

  so we're comics on the other hand have [TS]

  gone the other direction because our [TS]

  writing for the trade there doesn't seem [TS]

  to be those long rewarding stories and [TS]

  that if you keep following it they don't [TS]

  have those lights subtle quiet moments [TS]

  and economics have almost become TV [TS]

  seasons whereas TV season's almost [TS]

  become long-form comic books yeah well [TS]

  that they have come together right yeah [TS]

  that's me a good way of looking at every [TS]

  TV episode is self-contained even if [TS]

  well I mean there are a few examples [TS]

  like the wire where you can watch an [TS]

  episode of the wire and and I think I [TS]

  mentioned this in the previous podcast [TS]

  occasionally and a wire episode just [TS]

  ends and and my wife turns to me we're [TS]

  watching the the wire we finished the [TS]

  third season now and she'll say oh so [TS]

  that's where they ended this time huh [TS]

  because there is no ending but most TV [TS]

  shows actually do have a beginning [TS]

  middle and an end of an episode and [TS]

  inside story arc which is very much like [TS]

  a comic book that's got a story arc but [TS]

  also has some amount of self-contained [TS]

  right as it has to overlook any of the [TS]

  sort of modern comics being produced by [TS]

  Marvel or DC and i would say 99% of the [TS]

  individual pamphlet issue comics don't [TS]

  have a beginning middle and end it's [TS]

  just clearly this is the beginning of a [TS]

  six-issue story or the middle of a [TS]

  six-issue story and those middle ones [TS]

  like where nothing really happens it's [TS]

  sort of all they need to make the six [TS]

  issues for the trade in some ways you [TS]

  could view the trades as the TV episode [TS]

  as part of a large right and not in the [TS]

  park this head that monthly things more [TS]

  of your commercial break in the episode [TS]

  you don't miss about the monthly so is [TS]

  back in the eighties they used to have [TS]

  callbacks to previous issues where you [TS]

  have somebody give some exposition and [TS]

  there'd be an asterisk and you'd say see [TS]

  issue whatever you have a fry out yet [TS]

  footnote and those really super helpful [TS]

  because if you had just picked up an [TS]

  issue [TS]

  you got a sense of where the story began [TS]

  or ended and get a sense this is a piece [TS]

  of a bigger universe [TS]

  I said you could diet yeah if you go to [TS]

  a comic book store and seek out that and [TS]

  we don't get shot now you see these [TS]

  tremendous promotional blitz for things [TS]

  but haven't helped if you don't pick up [TS]

  in the first issue of that plot line [TS]

  because you're lost or if there are [TS]

  callbacks two previous runs or previous [TS]

  plot developments [TS]

  there's never an astrocyte see issues [TS]

  number extra why I looked through my new [TS]

  mutants classic trades and what's really [TS]

  kind of funny about those as they still [TS]

  have the footnotes in there that [TS]

  reference all of the other series that [TS]

  they were tied into it the time to those [TS]

  will be and that's the initial run of [TS]

  the mutants we have picked a sunspot [TS]

  cannonball magma the app where that with [TS]

  it they were basically you know the [TS]

  Savior's like well i have a bunch of [TS]

  guys that I lost in a cave [TS]

  let us at the reboots which surely don't [TS]

  come back [TS]

  yeah let's hit the radio savage Landor [TS]

  wherever they were right let's you know [TS]

  let's have kitty pryde interact with [TS]

  their peers and have it go badly [TS]

  Oh what they were in space with the [TS]

  brood and the starjammers right was that [TS]

  when they found the New Mutants was that [TS]

  sorry I'm you know I can't remember if [TS]

  it's lost in the cave or in space with [TS]

  the new mutants if they were in space [TS]

  with the starjammers in the brood [TS]

  because then they can't the x-men came [TS]

  back and they fought for at least four [TS]

  panels with the new modalities gray is [TS]

  the new mutants didn't know that who the [TS]

  x-men were and there was a brood hiding [TS]

  in one of the back corridors because he [TS]

  doesn't have to fight us right [TS]

  exactly yes so good and then your [TS]

  enemies kicked out of the x-men yeah [TS]

  it's got someone's father is around for [TS]

  a few episodes reviews jerk classic [TS]

  stuff but all interlocked and lot of [TS]

  footnotes because that was part of and [TS]

  it's actually looking back on that sort [TS]

  of sweets like they had two comics now [TS]

  they're like hey I got an idea let's do [TS]

  a second comic that set and more or less [TS]

  the same place and will refer back and [TS]

  forth one of course now you'll you end [TS]

  up with ten that are all trying to my [TS]

  god yes it's no longer enjoyable [TS]

  well I don't do those big events anymore [TS]

  because if i were a regular serious [TS]

  writer why would I want to invest extra [TS]

  time and money and picking up that the [TS]

  variance entire for example samsung next [TS]

  one reader [TS]

  why would I also want to pick up the [TS]

  Avengers four-issue miniseries on on [TS]

  whatever the big event is plus the whole [TS]

  planets and daredevil grace spider-man [TS]

  plus the runaways plus you forget [TS]

  ok so before we get too far off track i [TS]

  want to bring back bring back [TS]

  marble we could go we have to go on well [TS]

  yes so so too i think bits of [TS]

  interesting TV news regarding comic [TS]

  adaptation for TV and there are other [TS]

  directions we can take this conversation [TS]

  for example there are there's a comic [TS]

  book at least one maybe two comic like [TS]

  in terms of topic new TV shows like no [TS]

  ordinary family with Michael Chiklis [TS]

  which is sort of the incredibles [TS]

  live-action version case was coming [TS]

  areas American here on the Cape [TS]

  yeah we also have some TV series that [TS]

  have turned into comics you see that a [TS]

  little bit i think the most interesting [TS]

  example for me is Buffy Season eight [TS]

  where you actually had the creative team [TS]

  in large part of a TV series after after [TS]

  the show has ended [TS]

  continuing on in there have been some [TS]

  other graphic novel continuations to I [TS]

  believe edward james olmos was [TS]

  discovered that if you want to tell the [TS]

  story what happened to Commander Adama [TS]

  after the last episode of battlestar [TS]

  galactica all you need to do is talk to [TS]

  some web-sites a graphic novel and magic [TS]

  things will happen [TS]

  I'm not sure that's such a great idea [TS]

  but but that but the primary focus is [TS]

  the walking dead which premieres on [TS]

  halloween on AMC an adaptation of Robert [TS]

  Kirkman's an excellent black-and-white [TS]

  comic book series although [TS]

  nightmare-inducing they'll never great [TS]

  yeah it's great great for a great issue [TS]

  48 is great for the pregnant ladies I oh [TS]

  I read through my brother had how much [TS]

  my brother had collected most all of the [TS]

  trades up to November last year and when [TS]

  i visited for thanksgiving i read [TS]

  through them all in like a two-day [TS]

  stretch and then had nightmares for the [TS]

  next two nights just because i had [TS]

  mainline this coming for two days [TS]

  straight and couldn't get out of my head [TS]

  before that's like that's how I read [TS]

  yeah yeah I just as well i bought the [TS]

  here's a tip for people who haven't [TS]

  gotten into the walking dead if you want [TS]

  to take a chance your best value is [TS]

  there's an omnibus and I home and it's [TS]

  all 48 issues the first 48 issues of the [TS]

  story with a very fitting and dark [TS]

  conclusion right story line at the end [TS]

  of it and it's it's a it's like 20 bucks [TS]

  it's really cheap 448 issues of a comic [TS]

  right and it's great-looking distracted [TS]

  by how he draws children and your [TS]

  building smiley that's my only complaint [TS]

  is is charles charles adler dizzy is on [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah because I've always had a problem [TS]

  he draws kids and he's got the [TS]

  proportions off they're almost like the [TS]

  middle-aged representation work shrunken [TS]

  adults but once you once you can get [TS]

  past that you're here like wow this is [TS]

  really great yeah the just going on with [TS]

  that hold the Omnibus 448 issues if you [TS]

  don't like your comics as one giant [TS]

  telephone book size kind of addition [TS]

  seriously they big telephone right ma [TS]

  curtain is awesome in that they released [TS]

  the walking dead in pretty much every [TS]

  format you can get hardcover you can get [TS]

  hard covers that cover a year of the [TS]

  issue so in fact that 48 issue thinking [TS]

  it has four hardcovers or you could get [TS]

  it as a trade paperbacks yeah or to my [TS]

  personal favorite the two absolute [TS]

  editions which was sort of like the DC [TS]

  absolute collections where these [TS]

  oversized almost 11 x 17 hardback [TS]

  slipcase hundred-dollar beautiful coffee [TS]

  table they weigh a million pounds really [TS]

  portable not portable but an awesome way [TS]

  to read it and experienced in the art so [TS]

  big [TS]

  yeah I decided to go for the Omnibus [TS]

  this yeah so so AMC the people who [TS]

  brought you such heralded TV series as [TS]

  Mad Men and Breaking Bad have committed [TS]

  to the walking dead series [TS]

  rumor has it that they've even gone so [TS]

  far as to commit to a second season [TS]

  although it may be that they're waiting [TS]

  for the ratings before they officially [TS]

  related I've seen conflicting reports [TS]

  there but it's a six-episode season so [TS]

  it's pretty short [TS]

  I think they were you hesitant to to do [TS]

  a long run but the buzz is really good [TS]

  as as people who read the walking dead [TS]

  though [TS]

  what do you think about prospect of this [TS]

  is a series is this a the right kind of [TS]

  graphic novel comic series they always [TS]

  the marketing people always know the [TS]

  graphic novel i love into its comics [TS]

  must be the mystery science theater 3000 [TS]

  joke where it i forget which robot it [TS]

  was that read them and get into graphic [TS]

  novel comic book for stickin ceramic not [TS]

  the graphic novel but regardless what do [TS]

  you think about walking dead as a TV [TS]

  show instead of as a complex series i [TS]

  would say that walking dead is one of [TS]

  the the sort of comic properties that [TS]

  makes the most sense as a TV show it is [TS]

  so episodic and so much about the [TS]

  development of these characters and you [TS]

  really get into sort of the characters [TS]

  lives [TS]

  and that scene when they forget after [TS]

  they've gone through so much trauma and [TS]

  stuff and they get to that prison and [TS]

  they have that sort of relief like here [TS]

  have truly working spoiler right yeah [TS]

  but they were isn't sequence and raise [TS]

  is like a high point in the series for [TS]

  me when when they come over the hill and [TS]

  there's that prison and I like we could [TS]

  be safe here their study notice this [TS]

  prison is salvation yeah the subsequent [TS]

  stories in it again na right explores [TS]

  the the meaning of what it really means [TS]

  to be incarcerated [TS]

  it's not a throwaway that they find a [TS]

  prison rail it is like when Kirkman [TS]

  takes them to the prison you do get the [TS]

  sense that he's committed to exploring [TS]

  all of the variations of what does it [TS]

  mean to be setting up a civilization [TS]

  inside this prison instead of what you [TS]

  might get somewhere else which is a [TS]

  prison and then we were there for a [TS]

  couple issues and then we left and went [TS]

  and moved on as an oz viewer you know I [TS]

  the whole time i was when i was reading [TS]

  through the prison issues i was i was [TS]

  kind of thing about always in the back [TS]

  of my head and the fact that you have [TS]

  these people who are civilians to all of [TS]

  a sudden move into the prison and they [TS]

  run into the cons and you think these [TS]

  are almost like two separate species of [TS]

  individual and how are they ever going [TS]

  to connect how are they going to band [TS]

  together against a common enemy if you [TS]

  did the walking good as a movie he [TS]

  wouldn't do your point would be a zombie [TS]

  movie right we just be there would be an [TS]

  action arc and that there be some [TS]

  characters and so I think that goes to [TS]

  the heart of what you say about him it [TS]

  being appropriate a TV show is it really [TS]

  is about characters right what happens [TS]

  to the characters and none of them are [TS]

  you doing the same right and that's [TS]

  actually also what worries me a bit is [TS]

  one of the interesting things about [TS]

  walking dead is all the characters to [TS]

  develop characters that you love and [TS]

  invest time in spoiler alert they die [TS]

  we have lots and anybody's right and [TS]

  that they you know you get the sense [TS]

  after a while that no one is safe and [TS]

  when you have a TV show with main actors [TS]

  and stars and secondary thing you always [TS]

  know that like well nothing really Bad's [TS]

  gonna happen that's the main character [TS]

  of the show [TS]

  yeah we're in the comic oh that's not [TS]

  true and so how is that going to [TS]

  translate into television is it gonna be [TS]

  you take the main character one of the [TS]

  main characters and well I you know [TS]

  they're they're no longer have the [TS]

  ability to do that because they've got [TS]

  the blueprint of the comic series they [TS]

  can say hi character [TS]

  we're hiring you just so you know you're [TS]

  gonna get killed at the end of the [TS]

  second season [TS]

  sorry that we're gonna decide for the [TS]

  first two and then you're gone or the [TS]

  first three and then you're gone right [TS]

  that gives me that that they know where [TS]

  the story is going in a way that a [TS]

  regular TV writer wouldn't that the two [TS]

  things I'm really curious about our one [TS]

  how are they going to handle the [TS]

  ceaseless tension because if it's one [TS]

  thing that I think about the walking [TS]

  dead is almost never any relief even [TS]

  when a plot arcs to a complete finish [TS]

  you don't have that oh well that's okay [TS]

  and now they're off to new adventures [TS]

  no they're still stuck on a planet [TS]

  that's filled with zombies and right [TS]

  life is hard life is life is never going [TS]

  to get easier it's it's a pretty grim [TS]

  series and it's not that funny and I [TS]

  worry no no the reason is because when [TS]

  you have something is unrelentingly [TS]

  tense there there's often a temptation [TS]

  to throw in some comic relief or [TS]

  something just so people laugh and get [TS]

  the rent and release out how are they [TS]

  going to handle this on TV where people [TS]

  actually do tune in for some sort of [TS]

  catharsis right and I i think some of [TS]

  the interesting stuff that happens in [TS]

  the book with what the characters go [TS]

  through and some of the way the [TS]

  characters hook up in all is about [TS]

  breaking that tension that they all feel [TS]

  and as a reader when you're reading this [TS]

  series it's hard to put down [TS]

  yes you feel that tension too and you [TS]

  just want to ride it out to see what's [TS]

  the second thing wondering about is it's [TS]

  an incredibly violent series just just [TS]

  incredibly gruesomely violent and how [TS]

  are they going to handle it when there [TS]

  are people [TS]

  spoiler alert when there are people [TS]

  using plastic pliers to pull the teeth [TS]

  that amount of zombie children or [TS]

  gruesomely torturing folk or just all [TS]

  the various gonna play that results in [TS]

  kapil's parts of the murders suicides [TS]

  had he's yelling apart right yeah or [TS]

  there was some outcome was a blank here [TS]

  is it Sharona Siobhan the one who made [TS]

  it through to the prison by against [TS]

  whereby maniacally some zombies 2 we're [TS]

  using them as as his shield yes as a [TS]

  shield like how how did you swing that [TS]

  and I hope though they don't use the [TS]

  comic as too much of a blueprint and use [TS]

  it as the basis and then do what works [TS]

  in TV in a way and because they're [TS]

  different mediums and the same story [TS]

  lines for Batum aren't going to [TS]

  translate what right i think following [TS]

  the plot arc and saying people here's [TS]

  what's going to happen they're gonna [TS]

  he's gonna go into this into the city [TS]

  he's going to meet people they're going [TS]

  to end up on this on the road they're [TS]

  gonna find a prison there's gonna be [TS]

  stuff in the prison and there's going to [TS]

  be a [TS]

  then it's going to be a community nearby [TS]

  because every post apocalyptic story has [TS]

  that like militaristic community that [TS]

  sometimes runs into his rented by a [TS]

  dictator always happens and I was sort [TS]

  of sad when i saw that in the walking [TS]

  dead but they handled it really well [TS]

  yeah but you know so and then and then [TS]

  you can go on from there and say one [TS]

  then and then down the road we'll talk [TS]

  about like taking another road trip [TS]

  trying to find the source of you know [TS]

  maybe how this happened or where the [TS]

  government is and all of that those [TS]

  points along the way are probably good [TS]

  to have like i said to give them an idea [TS]

  of direction but the details i think [TS]

  you're totally right hand details need [TS]

  to happen in the contract with TV one [TS]

  thing I hope it doesn't become though [TS]

  you know why did this happen how did [TS]

  this happen let's try to solve that [TS]

  mystery mystery and I think that we're [TS]

  not in the comic that's like mentioned [TS]

  maybe twice ever in just a couple I [TS]

  sandals they're like we're a little busy [TS]

  trying not to be eaten be right over [TS]

  here when I'm not even to the evenings [TS]

  but what are we gonna eat and how do you [TS]

  go anywhere because the highways are all [TS]

  clogged with cars and now there's no [TS]

  gasps there's no working society is not [TS]

  working in that structure right that's [TS]

  so interesting and from a character [TS]

  standpoint which is again that the [TS]

  brilliance of the walking dead is that [TS]

  it does what most ami stories don't do [TS]

  which is deal with these larger issues [TS]

  of how do we survive [TS]

  can we survive can we raise children in [TS]

  this it at comic-con there was a panel [TS]

  of teachers and librarians talking about [TS]

  using comics in classrooms and one of [TS]

  the things they talked about was using [TS]

  the walking dead with with teenagers [TS]

  yeah yeah such fifth grade my god no [TS]

  need to talk about questions of culture [TS]

  and Emma question there was about zombie [TS]

  post zombie apocalypse culture and how [TS]

  characters in The Walking Dead or [TS]

  worried that their kids are going to [TS]

  grow up not just worried that the kids [TS]

  are going to grow because they're gonna [TS]

  get eaten by a zombie but they're going [TS]

  to grow up in a in a culture without [TS]

  knowing what all the trappings of our [TS]

  previous culture were and like how do we [TS]

  keep the culture alive and that is stuff [TS]

  that you just don't as much fun as some [TS]

  kind of traditional zombie movies can be [TS]

  as action vehicles and the fact is there [TS]

  is a lot of time spent mourning for the [TS]

  dead culture and wondering how you can [TS]

  possibly survive in a world where all [TS]

  the cars are filling the the lanes of [TS]

  highways and there's no gasoline and [TS]

  there's no food and there's nothing like [TS]

  that and and so to get to that and say [TS]

  you know this isn't just about surviving [TS]

  it's also about it or not just about [TS]

  killing zombies it's also about like [TS]

  surviving in the long term and how the [TS]

  heck do we do that and get along [TS]

  together that's a great thing about what [TS]

  happened did and that Batman that's the [TS]

  core of drama right right and that's [TS]

  what works why it works pretty good yeah [TS]

  featured steady existential you know [TS]

  basic existential like will we be able [TS]

  to continue existing kind of core drama [TS]

  right it's their one of the genius [TS]

  things with the walking dead is it's [TS]

  basically the stand with zombies [TS]

  yeah because when you think about this a [TS]

  lot doesn't remember no and without some [TS]

  of the mystical about Randall Flagg but [TS]

  there's something you know there's a lot [TS]

  of this if you went back and reread it [TS]

  my last vacation and there's just a lot [TS]

  of time that Stephen King actually [TS]

  devotes to talking about how lost people [TS]

  are with their infrastructure goes away [TS]

  where there are people who have no idea [TS]

  how to get running [TS]

  just just look at new orleans after [TS]

  katrina society is very fragile [TS]

  oh yeah first World Western societies [TS]

  really fragile x 1 i'd be curious about [TS]

  I don't know and I don't think they're [TS]

  ever going to do this in the walking [TS]

  dead because there's how could you swing [TS]

  it but I'd love to find out how to [TS]

  network everybody is fine exactly hahaha [TS]

  they did that and y the last man [TS]

  remember the very yeah against Cuellar [TS]

  at the very end of it you know they're [TS]

  like it turns out the women on the [TS]

  plains of Africa were fine because they [TS]

  were already used to be hunters and [TS]

  gatherers they just picked up and [TS]

  carried on it was you know the [TS]

  interdependence societies ever host so y [TS]

  the last man is going is in movie [TS]

  development isn't it with the movies [TS]

  that that's what I actually think we'd [TS]

  be better as a TV show isn't true i said [TS]

  this about watchmen for a long time and [TS]

  I mentioned this on our in our movie [TS]

  podcast have been 12 issue HBO series [TS]

  that kind of thing where it's you know a [TS]

  12-episode like the band of brothers [TS]

  event where it's it's one and done you [TS]

  know and something like something [TS]

  self-contained like why I could I could [TS]

  see again as a series because there's so [TS]

  much story there that that you could [TS]

  tell it was a movie if you only took the [TS]

  first couple of trade paperbacks maybe [TS]

  then it's an amazing i'm doing right [TS]

  right that's why I comics in general [TS]

  probably work better as a serialize TV [TS]

  show then a two-hour movie because [TS]

  they're they're written with the same [TS]

  interstitial storytelling right at least [TS]

  at least all these kind of good books [TS]

  from kirk manner von that we're talking [TS]

  about [TS]

  well not to get back to Buffy which I [TS]

  mentioned earlier but Joss Whedon has [TS]

  said on many occasions that Buffy the [TS]

  buffy TV series and talk about your [TS]

  to work better as a TV show the movie by [TS]

  the way is greatly is really his version [TS]

  of spider-man [TS]

  yeah except taking hold of some kind of [TS]

  superhero trappings away and having it [TS]

  be the strong female character but it is [TS]

  it is Peter Parker in in high school [TS]

  with all of the social complications [TS]

  plus superpowers which makes it even [TS]

  more complicated and and that's what why [TS]

  i love that show is because i always [TS]

  love that aspect of the spider-man story [TS]

  group and then Buffy really is that now [TS]

  I know Marvel's talking about now that [TS]

  they're part of disney making more comic [TS]

  based TV shows and I suspect it's only a [TS]

  matter of time before we see the Peter [TS]

  Parker TV series isn't aren't they doing [TS]

  the new spider-man film is sort of an [TS]

  ultimate spider-man [TS]

  yeah I'll removed as opposed to it [TS]

  really work better as a TV show my [TS]

  argument is you can look at something [TS]

  like Buffy and say I think I think [TS]

  spider-man or at least the I guess [TS]

  smallville would be the example right [TS]

  words what if we took a my comic [TS]

  superhero and made his high school [TS]

  period the the the subject of on [TS]

  long-running TV show where you can [TS]

  really get into those issues and small [TS]

  has been on the air since the forties [TS]

  right at this point and welding has lost [TS]

  his teeth and it's very sad but that I [TS]

  having only seen like one episode that [TS]

  that was the premise of that show to [TS]

  write with an ok so let's talk about [TS]

  some failures like the words of prey [TS]

  ok i was thinking you and next oh yeah [TS]

  which I don't actually ever watched an [TS]

  episode of to pray you and you love the [TS]

  comic right one of the comic i really do [TS]

  it would within the TV show anything to [TS]

  do with the comic-con vaguely other than [TS]

  the traditional have a man appear in the [TS]

  comic at any point that man has appeared [TS]

  in gross army not in the comic in the TV [TS]

  show [TS]

  not one don't know don't nobody say bad [TS]

  but it wasn't the main person in the TV [TS]

  show the daughter of Batman and Catwoman [TS]

  know what they did what they did and [TS]

  this was just it was one of those things [TS]

  where if you're if you're into any [TS]

  resembles a continuity you're tearing [TS]

  her again that's not how it's supposed [TS]

  to go is you have of course oracle and [TS]

  she's the titular protagonist random [TS]

  things resolved revolve what they did is [TS]

  they took the daughter of the Black [TS]

  Canary that the daughter that Black [TS]

  Canary had with green arrow and she goes [TS]

  into the family business sort of [TS]

  unleashes profoundly ambivalent about it [TS]

  because they needed to have they [TS]

  basically tried to set the maiden mother [TS]

  krone dynamic with with three women [TS]

  damned you have to have your maiden and [TS]

  that has to be the the new Black Canary [TS]

  and it was just oh here Ricky will teach [TS]

  you the ropes of fighting crime in this [TS]

  city and by the way my shrink happens to [TS]

  be Harley Quinn in her spare time and [TS]

  yeah and it was just it was made it but [TS]

  if it works like a change everything if [TS]

  it worked right and a big problem was [TS]

  that it didn't work out but one of the [TS]

  things that made one of the reasons i [TS]

  like birds of prey at the girls even the [TS]

  trucks and run to be fair but one of the [TS]

  reasons of birds of prey actually worked [TS]

  was because you had a group of women who [TS]

  were professional colleagues and they [TS]

  had and they had to work together and [TS]

  the friendships are valuable but often [TS]

  secondary or you know sometimes the [TS]

  interpersonal relationships got in the [TS]

  way of doing a professional job there [TS]

  was a brief plot point in the gail [TS]

  simone where power girl has a huge [TS]

  falling-out with the birds of prey [TS]

  because she doesn't like how she's being [TS]

  asked to work and has to work being out [TS]

  fighting crime [TS]

  yeah okay because Oracle has methods and [TS]

  Power Girl disagreed with them and it [TS]

  turned into a thing and it affected [TS]

  their friendship as well as the [TS]

  professional relationship and whereas [TS]

  this was I think like a WB series seven [TS]

  hours it was basically the baby was in [TS]

  the in after smallville was a successful [TS]

  yeah but they would do another DC and it [TS]

  was kind of like sex in the city meets [TS]

  spandex it was really just yeah and it [TS]

  was it was it was it was less about the [TS]

  fact that these women saw themselves as [TS]

  okay clearly I have the ability to kick [TS]

  somebody's butt or clearly I have the [TS]

  ability to find any information anywhere [TS]

  and let's see if i can make money off of [TS]

  that more along the lines of oh I'm so [TS]

  conflicted [TS]

  I'm a woman and a superhero however like [TS]

  however will I cope and it was just bad [TS]

  all had survived i think better part of [TS]

  the season and then never intended even [TS]

  automated a full season it was it was a [TS]

  pretty early casualty from what i can [TS]

  remember Jason any any memorable TV [TS]

  comic book failures on your list [TS]

  well there was I mean the mute next [TS]

  thing so thinking nette-c realized chris [TS]

  claremont approach like oh the x-men [TS]

  unions that would might make a good TV [TS]

  show and then I remember they tried that [TS]

  with even x which loosely I think tied [TS]

  to the comic Mutant X which was later [TS]

  spin-off of like the secondary act [TS]

  factor team with traffic and and I where [TS]

  it was actually a some sort of legal [TS]

  deal there where they had did sold the [TS]

  rights to the x-men you to a different [TS]

  studios I couldn't do an x-men comic but [TS]

  they could do for xmas show but they [TS]

  could do a mutant x show and then there [TS]

  was a lawsuit right there's something [TS]

  weird and I never actually watched any [TS]

  of it but it didn't last very long but [TS]

  it was you know mute didn't work [TS]

  a mutant Academy kind of again but i [TS]

  felt when i visit to have to have [TS]

  superpower people in a high school say [TS]

  I'm right but that's the whole idea of [TS]

  250,000 novel about that actually so [TS]

  it's in troy what strangers is a common [TS]

  is a comic they've they've rebooted that [TS]

  new x-men concept a bunch of times and [TS]

  then grit and then grant Morris had his [TS]

  new x-men run we're basically he took it [TS]

  back to the Academy and put all of the [TS]

  classic excellent background with the [TS]

  exception of Scott Emma and focused on a [TS]

  new class of people and once you've [TS]

  finished that run someone hit the reset [TS]

  button and isn't the problem with TV [TS]

  shows doing classic superheroes those [TS]

  classic defined as classic sort of [TS]

  superheroes style is that actors don't [TS]

  look good in spandex and they don't know [TS]

  so you have to read you have to change [TS]

  this is where we have the black leather [TS]

  models do the reactors don't and uh and [TS]

  that superpowers are hard to show in [TS]

  like that right more this way ETA I and [TS]

  the practical effects and so you find [TS]

  cartoons work well well and that's why I [TS]

  think ultimately joss whedon did what he [TS]

  did with Buffy which is like well I [TS]

  can't really do spider-man but I could [TS]

  do this where they read where regular [TS]

  she's really fight and she could find [TS]

  she can fight she can kick ass and [TS]

  that's what she can do and that's her [TS]

  power [TS]

  what we're saying that we like about the [TS]

  comics is that the sort of personal [TS]

  drama stuff absent you can do the [TS]

  superhero but you have it is like an [TS]

  extreme background like those smallville [TS]

  you know it's there yes way behind [TS]

  because you can't know usually I'm on a [TS]

  budget because what i was saying was [TS]

  it's such a great idea and you know [TS]

  we're talking about the the new x-men [TS]

  and and all the stuff and yet for some [TS]

  reason isn't it doesn't have traction [TS]

  with comic audiences and actually wonder [TS]

  if it's gonna if it would have better [TS]

  traction on TV because again it is more [TS]

  character-driven for the most part and [TS]

  you don't have to worry about oh we're [TS]

  going to blow FX budget this week on a [TS]

  floating brain walking down the hall you [TS]

  can just you know modify it to be right [TS]

  no dl floating [TS]

  in episode all right jack and it hit the [TS]

  floating brain flies in a Zeppelin and [TS]

  then I'm there's a little show everyone [TS]

  that comes up with bring yeah all right [TS]

  so the other TV show that they've talked [TS]

  about being in development [TS]

  The Sandman yes that was a good idea bad [TS]

  idea [TS]

  I'm really intrigued to see how they'll [TS]

  do it because I've actually given this a [TS]

  lot of thought believe it or not it's [TS]

  one of those you know you're on the [TS]

  stationary bike and you start thinking [TS]

  what would happen it was thinking the [TS]

  only way to do it successfully as if you [TS]

  basically cut out every other trade [TS]

  because the way that no because the way [TS]

  they wrote that because the way no game [TS]

  throughout the series is you know you [TS]

  have a book where the plot advance and [TS]

  then you have a book was basically a [TS]

  roundup of oh this is dream back and [TS]

  Shakespearean x 0 this is and then you [TS]

  know another book with the plot advances [TS]

  and then another round up of fables or [TS]

  whatever and if you can cut out those [TS]

  fables and and one shots and just focus [TS]

  on the story of a guy who's basically [TS]

  could be trying to prompt the universe [TS]

  and to help him commit suicide that then [TS]

  you've got your series is interesting [TS]

  way to look at the series that the easy [TS]

  you think about it he every step he [TS]

  takes over the course of the series is [TS]

  him doing something that's blatantly [TS]

  against the self-interest here though [TS]

  that the show ends up being a incredible [TS]

  hulk style anthology series God that you [TS]

  know where the same man has to go from [TS]

  town to town and collect his items [TS]

  well you know whose it was just that and [TS]

  anyway and and learned important lessons [TS]

  and business hours for good and then [TS]

  moves on ya i think that's yeah I [TS]

  thought Sandman is about that you know [TS]

  you have to change or die [TS]

  yeah and what happens when you make that [TS]

  choice and essentially that's because he [TS]

  chooses not to change basically um I [TS]

  also like the family drama a spicy so [TS]

  what you could have I was thinking that [TS]

  you could TV do that kind of like a [TS]

  whole different cast of characters a [TS]

  whole different story every episode in [TS]

  our series of episodes me with that kind [TS]

  of family drama on top or in the [TS]

  background latest in the series and was [TS]

  like no that can't possibly be done and [TS]

  then I remembered doctor who doctor who [TS]

  does pull off having a completely [TS]

  different show you are virtually pulls [TS]

  off having a different show every [TS]

  episode so yeah so the fact that you [TS]

  some episodes could be [TS]

  very little about dream and other [TS]

  episodes can be a lot about dream or the [TS]

  family and that hopefully you wouldn't [TS]

  see the family very often because that's [TS]

  something that that works well but only [TS]

  in small doses and this became like hey [TS]

  your body at the endless to do you know [TS]

  it would we did just ridiculous right [TS]

  but I mean that that's where you get [TS]

  into it's more of an anthology series [TS]

  with a through line which is rather than [TS]

  a standalone in ecology serious right [TS]

  because it at least you could you got [TS]

  somebody to track that was that and [TS]

  that's your premise of the incredible [TS]

  home gonna hate to say it except that [TS]

  there's probably a better modern example [TS]

  where there's a show [TS]

  maybe the x-files before it disappeared [TS]

  up its own backside was like now where [TS]

  we sort of a monster-of-the-week with a [TS]

  through him to karen is doing that right [TS]

  now [TS]

  yes I find out where can it can be done [TS]

  right but i'll show you shouldn't be [TS]

  right good part of what the Sandman did [TS]

  well was take all those old seventies or [TS]

  sixties DC characters like the game [TS]

  enable and use them and I don't know [TS]

  that would work in television the way it [TS]

  working well yeah there's not there's [TS]

  also because i was there are some plot [TS]

  lines that seemed made for TV like [TS]

  there's that whole I think was the dolls [TS]

  house plot line where you find out that [TS]

  rose Walker is that what is the word for [TS]

  it she's some nexus between the dream [TS]

  world in the waking world and when she [TS]

  has the names and she drags and [TS]

  everybody her boardinghouse and you find [TS]

  out all of their backstory for the ones [TS]

  in the Golden Age Sandman you who ended [TS]

  up being the parents of Danielle who [TS]

  ended up being anyway spoiling it's just [TS]

  there [TS]

  the serial killer convention would be a [TS]

  great arc as well and that's that's just [TS]

  a great two story beginning to end [TS]

  yeah anyway because it's just someone [TS]

  couldn't really say never ever pull any [TS]

  of that off i think the trick would be [TS]

  subtle tea [TS]

  you know the the research showing [TS]

  restraint in the stories i guess the [TS]

  question what to say that is because it [TS]

  depends on what the people who are [TS]

  making a TV show want from the TV show [TS]

  for example walking garnish [TS]

  well the government that the guy who is [TS]

  linked to this is no is the showrunner [TS]

  of supernatural yeah who is what I've [TS]

  seen is generally thought to be a fairly [TS]

  stand-up guy who kinda gets [TS]

  genre TV and androgen source material it [TS]

  is the thing it was Sandman was one of [TS]

  the reasons it was quite successful and [TS]

  interesting was it it was shara bending [TS]

  as well [TS]

  yeah so [TS]

  how do you do that and Jonna if you [TS]

  approach it as a genre i don't know if [TS]

  it's gonna work because the whole thing [TS]

  about the Sandman is it talked about it [TS]

  it in its own narrative talked about [TS]

  narrative and storytelling and it was a [TS]

  story within a story and all those sort [TS]

  of things that's so interesting to read [TS]

  and think about but seeing it on the [TS]

  screen [TS]

  it's much harder also it's not exactly a [TS]

  linear story because even write it does [TS]

  bounce back and forth you get a lot of [TS]

  flashbacks to a lot of different periods [TS]

  and the whole missing brother thing [TS]

  oh yeah that's the thing is that when [TS]

  dream and delirium go looking for [TS]

  destruction [TS]

  that's basically a cross B hope road [TS]

  trip right there it's really it's a well [TS]

  it's a really funny sequence and it [TS]

  would make a really funny plotline over [TS]

  the course of a couple episodes but what [TS]

  is the method will beat it depends it [TS]

  could be played like three or four [TS]

  different ways on TV and some of them [TS]

  could be great but otherwise it's like a [TS]

  look their wacky huh and now they've [TS]

  found their brother who want something [TS]

  to do with them and has a talking dog [TS]

  you know it'sit's I smell series [TS]

  yeah there's delirium alone would make a [TS]

  great series and she's just wackiness [TS]

  ensues CI I've only read the first like [TS]

  this even met the family yet yeah no no [TS]

  that's the thing that the family is so [TS]

  interesting I wanted to be used very [TS]

  very very infrequently one of the things [TS]

  that game it does really well for the [TS]

  entire series he drops enough clues to [TS]

  keep utilized about some of these people [TS]

  more characters but he never gives you [TS]

  an explanation for example the youngest [TS]

  one delirium was originally delight and [TS]

  then one day she turned into the she was [TS]

  turning into delirium and he never [TS]

  explains why that happens it just did [TS]

  but it was a bad thing [TS]

  yeah and and there's so there's this [TS]

  it's actually reference where he teases [TS]

  the reader towards the end of it where [TS]

  she pulls her head together for a moment [TS]

  and asks her brother do you know why I [TS]

  turned into delirium and he's like [TS]

  actually now and she said well there are [TS]

  things outside your world will never [TS]

  know and that's basically game in [TS]

  telling the audience get used to it [TS]

  where did I get all the and I wonder if [TS]

  TV audiences are ok with that because it [TS]

  you know we're talking about a culture [TS]

  where people right endlessly blog and [TS]

  and recap shows to try to ring every [TS]

  center of meaning of how are they going [TS]

  to do if you've got source material that [TS]

  admits hey I'm not going to give you all [TS]

  the answers because i don't think you [TS]

  need them well they might like a gazelle [TS]

  then be able to project their own [TS]

  right and talk about an endlessly on the [TS]

  internet about what it means yeah well i [TS]

  think the producers of lost spending the [TS]

  last year that shows the on the air [TS]

  saying they weren't going to answer all [TS]

  the questions and the result was [TS]

  everybody yelled at them for not [TS]

  answering all the questions right like [TS]

  all right well this is an interesting [TS]

  issue is is there is a storyteller ever [TS]

  contractually obligated to give you all [TS]

  of the answers absolutely not no way [TS]

  yeah but something still so she could [TS]

  sense of entitlement among TV viewers a [TS]

  lot of the time that every piece has to [TS]

  have seven meaning it has to make sense [TS]

  because most of TV isn't challenging or [TS]

  and they've been trained to expect TV [TS]

  did too to give it to them in this kind [TS]

  of comfortable package but that doesn't [TS]

  like 20 minutes and one of the things [TS]

  that killed me about the criticism loss [TS]

  there are lots of great reasons to [TS]

  criticize last I think loss was a great [TS]

  show i think was I I'm willing to [TS]

  forgive its faults for it the ambition [TS]

  that they had with it but the fact was [TS]

  negatively they they were treating it [TS]

  like a novel and one of the things that [TS]

  great novels do is frustrate you [TS]

  the difference is if you end a chapter [TS]

  with a frustrating cliffhanger and then [TS]

  you see that the next chapter is about a [TS]

  different character and that you're [TS]

  gonna have to wait multiple chapters to [TS]

  get back to the thing that's frustrating [TS]

  you you can power through and keep [TS]

  reading whereas on TV it's the end of [TS]

  the episode and you have to wait a week [TS]

  and then if the first scene of the new [TS]

  episode shows you that they're not going [TS]

  to talk at all about what you saw the [TS]

  last know what you're angry that whole [TS]

  episode and then for the next time [TS]

  you're carrying around which actually [TS]

  happened on lost in that last season [TS]

  they did a whole episode that was just a [TS]

  flashback episode and people were up in [TS]

  arms made the torches and pitchforks [TS]

  this is why you just watch TV on DVD [TS]

  because yeah because as a novelist [TS]

  I mean novice they they have to [TS]

  frustrate the reader that's that's part [TS]

  of the storyline it had you have to kind [TS]

  of what they doing it right but that's [TS]

  actually one of the reasons why comics [TS]

  work differently is a different media [TS]

  then television even though on paper it [TS]

  since you can kind of think it's the [TS]

  same because they both have storyboards [TS]

  writing comics a storyboard for film but [TS]

  the difference in the comics is you [TS]

  control the time and in a movie or TV [TS]

  show you don't and that means different [TS]

  narrative choices yet which is why Alan [TS]

  Moore was always the watchman is not you [TS]

  know can't be a film know and I reviews [TS]

  read anything [TS]

  I have you read anything by david lapham [TS]

  david lapham the name is familiar but I [TS]

  is not a lot of things but one of his [TS]

  best works as a series called stray [TS]

  bullets which was his creator-owned [TS]

  which followed some interesting [TS]

  characters and bad things happening to [TS]

  them and it came out around the time of [TS]

  pulp fiction and that sort of John was [TS]

  as popular media and David lapins [TS]

  storytelling was very much had that kind [TS]

  of sense to it and started in the [TS]

  seventies it kind of jumped all over [TS]

  time wise but it was a group of [TS]

  characters that followed as very really [TS]

  good and interesting and he was [TS]

  approached by a lot of Hollywood to make [TS]

  stray bullets into a film because it [TS]

  kind of already right eye and he said no [TS]

  then stray bullet is a comic it would [TS]

  only work as a comic I'm i'll happily [TS]

  write you a film that has this kind of [TS]

  thing in it but not stray bullets and he [TS]

  probably have a lot more money now had [TS]

  he done that sure but I respect totally [TS]

  respected that he's like no stray [TS]

  bullets as a comic and will only work as [TS]

  a comic and I had to do with some of [TS]

  that time and how you can manipulate [TS]

  time and play with it and how the reader [TS]

  bring stuff to it that you can't get [TS]

  when you because in a way comic reading [TS]

  is an active activity [TS]

  yeah we're television watching a movie [TS]

  watching as a passive activity so yeah [TS]

  it's hard to Marshall McLuhan actually [TS]

  broke it down differently where he'd be [TS]

  differentiate between movies and TV and [TS]

  I can remember the argument for the [TS]

  different engagements but the others [TS]

  when you're reading a comic I agree that [TS]

  it's definitely more of a sense of you [TS]

  have you have control over how you can [TS]

  consume the narrative and with [TS]

  television you again unless you're [TS]

  watching on DVD if it's your wedding [TS]

  from episode to come every week you are [TS]

  at the mercy of someone else's schedule [TS]

  and pacing and storytelling in a way [TS]

  that that can be incredibly emotionally [TS]

  frustrating fully invested in it so I'm [TS]

  even even in the within the confines of [TS]

  the story you know you can you at your [TS]

  own pace and take your time or leap [TS]

  ahead and and one second is one second [TS]

  on TV with bacon do some compression but [TS]

  they do the compression and make control [TS]

  when it happens right that said you know [TS]

  the TV and movies are are vastly more [TS]

  popular media know [TS]

  and comic books and I'm also the one of [TS]

  the criticisms I would have about about [TS]

  that that statement about the well you [TS]

  know you can adapt this is that [TS]

  everything is an application so it may [TS]

  be true but if so it's sort of true for [TS]

  everything I mean nothing is that we [TS]

  talked about the walking dead earlier [TS]

  the walking dead on AMC is not going to [TS]

  be Robert Kirkman's the walking dead it [TS]

  can't be even even even that watchman [TS]

  movie which was about his faithful and [TS]

  attempt to right to the source material [TS]

  as possible and shows it can't be it's [TS]

  not the same it is impossible so it's [TS]

  always going to be a different thing I [TS]

  think what you take out of an adaptation [TS]

  is you maybe take some of the story [TS]

  points to take some character names take [TS]

  the look I mean that you take a [TS]

  storyboard sometimes a lot of the promos [TS]

  for i'm walking dead are essentially [TS]

  like panels from the walking dead staged [TS]

  as as photos as posters with live-action [TS]

  characters so you can take bits and [TS]

  pieces of it but in the end it's you [TS]

  know it's gonna be with walking it's [TS]

  gonna be frank darabont really kind of [TS]

  putting together what the show is as [TS]

  opposed to what Robert Kirkman did with [TS]

  the and his artist with a comic just [TS]

  think of the most successful partner [TS]

  watch more than where the opening [TS]

  credits which are basically stage like a [TS]

  moving comic when you think about right [TS]

  right it's a montage [TS]

  yeah right and its narrative and it [TS]

  works really really well and it has a [TS]

  real comic feel that the rest of the [TS]

  movie simply does not so whether a [TS]

  property is successful it going from [TS]

  comics to TV or film comes down to the [TS]

  choices the producers and directors and [TS]

  actors make in that adaptation i would [TS]

  say that that's accurate that yet it's [TS]

  it is in the details and it's not about [TS]

  comics being fundamentally unfilmable or [TS]

  filmer below [TS]

  I think comics lend themselves really [TS]

  well to that I think there are comics [TS]

  that would never ever work as an [TS]

  adaptation for example i'm thinking [TS]

  about anything Alex Ross ever works on [TS]

  because kill the kingdom come for [TS]

  example that would be just a horrible [TS]

  adaptation I think we'll keep the [TS]

  interesting the no Kingdom Come was [TS]

  seeing the future of all of these [TS]

  characters and I don't have any of that [TS]

  history is much less interesting but [TS]

  something like Marvel's we have you kind [TS]

  of walk through the history of the world [TS]

  with the superhero like holy cats these [TS]

  people are emerging and yet that could [TS]

  be an interesting TV show told from the [TS]

  point of view of the photographer really [TS]

  i was thinkin be a nightmare to produce [TS]

  just because one of the ways [TS]

  marvel's works so well is because again [TS]

  you got that beautiful alex ross [TS]

  painting and composition and and [TS]

  photorealism or whatever you want to [TS]

  call it where it's obvious he's painting [TS]

  models and how are you going to get that [TS]

  sense of hyper reality when you're [TS]

  shooting on TV it would be with the [TS]

  whole thing was filmed in HDR oh god [TS]

  they're a lot to tell to show you can do [TS]

  that you can do that though one of my [TS]

  favorite episodes to my top 10 of buffy [TS]

  is never so called the Zeppo and the [TS]

  entire premise of the Zeppo is you're [TS]

  following along one of the supporting [TS]

  characters and the main plot involving [TS]

  the hero dispatching a villain that's [TS]

  going to destroy the world if they can't [TS]

  stop them happens in the background and [TS]

  occasionally the main the the supporting [TS]

  character will wander into the scene [TS]

  where there's a giant tentacle packing [TS]

  then there's a flames and things like [TS]

  that but he's got to go over here and do [TS]

  this other thing and it's great that [TS]

  works as a change of pace [TS]

  I'm not sure whether something like [TS]

  Marvel's would work as its own thing [TS]

  because it is again so I think depending [TS]

  on the on the mythology and and and the [TS]

  backstory but you know I think those are [TS]

  those the Alex rasta I mean that is very [TS]

  different from taking something that [TS]

  that those are those are very very [TS]

  different works i think that most of the [TS]

  stuff that you see with it an albatross [TS]

  it's also very old faithful to the [TS]

  history in the the the legacy of these [TS]

  characters and stuff if you go in the [TS]

  other direction and do more of that [TS]

  misty shears sort of great American hero [TS]

  which takes the various genres elements [TS]

  and kind of makes fun of them in place [TS]

  with them or something that does it with [TS]

  perhaps less cynicism the tick the tick [TS]

  I was going to see you you teach the [TS]

  subject to which is which which actually [TS]

  works really well when all of its [TS]

  without all of its adaptation right [TS]

  there was a very successful election yes [TS]

  very unsuccessful live action although [TS]

  really could really final element in the [TS]

  the way that mattered most which was [TS]

  that it was good right yeah a 100 and I [TS]

  really special style [TS]

  yes which which is important because [TS]

  that's actually one of the irrational [TS]

  bugbears i have is if you're going to [TS]

  take a visual medium like collect comic [TS]

  books and then push it [TS]

  TV then by God think about how you want [TS]

  it to look what if you're going to show [TS]

  that already know story a guy in a big [TS]

  blue superhero suit you need [TS]

  embrace the fact that it is going to [TS]

  seem kind of ridiculous [TS]

  yeah and and just look at everything so [TS]

  with the tick there's that you know [TS]

  they're the the robot that was built to [TS]

  set the Russian robot Soviet robot built [TS]

  to assassinate jimmy carter a pilot and [TS]

  then I much cuter than jimmy carter and [TS]

  there's a battle in an elevator and [TS]

  there's you know it's one shade away [TS]

  from being a fight in the sixties Batman [TS]

  series right but you know under a sheet [TS]

  in half an hour played for laughs oh [TS]

  right but what about this is why i can [TS]

  never take Nestor Carbonell seriously as [TS]

  a bad guy to use is Manuel exact time [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  batmanuel to me so but yeah you're right [TS]

  that didn't take is an awesome example [TS]

  of adaptation both because from the book [TS]

  to the cartoons they have like that was [TS]

  a great car to write you haven't seen it [TS]

  is worth for grown-ups get it all on DVD [TS]

  read it and aid and put the [TS]

  closed-captioned because we're closed [TS]

  captioning for the theme song alone is [TS]

  actually really really funny yeah and [TS]

  then and then they had to adapt it again [TS]

  for television [TS]

  yeah and they have like the same [TS]

  archetypes are there even though the [TS]

  characters names or rights issues change [TS]

  captain captain Liberty instead of [TS]

  american-made and red and that Manuel [TS]

  which is what a triangle to the later [TS]

  rounds right yeah deflator mouse to [TS]

  Batman well yeah this is such a great [TS]

  just as many character flaws but Latin [TS]

  another fairly successful adaptation [TS]

  which is really into the radar was when [TS]

  MTV around the max way back in the early [TS]

  nineties i never because that was [TS]

  nothing actually did see but on DVD of [TS]

  that think it was part of their late [TS]

  they would run on late-night first was [TS]

  part of liquid television and then just [TS]

  ran as a standalone bumped up against [TS]

  beavis and butt-head because there's [TS]

  your natural constituency and Tom but I [TS]

  had never read anything by sam kieth i [TS]

  just watched the series and then I went [TS]

  back and read the comics and was really [TS]

  there surprised at how nimbly he took [TS]

  all of the the strength of comic book [TS]

  was that written by mezclar lobe turn [TS]

  and drawn by sam kieth I don't know I [TS]

  just understand he's being associated [TS]

  with her hundreds of uncomfortable [TS]

  comics listeners saying the answer right [TS]

  there listening but sadly we it's a [TS]

  podcast you can't let us go ahead and [TS]

  shout guys yes that was loud as you just [TS]

  show i'm sorry it was the 90s it was on [TS]

  @midnight I didn't pay attention to the [TS]

  credits before we go I I one more [TS]

  question which is if there was a comic [TS]

  that's laying out there somewhere that [TS]

  you would recommend say uh you happen to [TS]

  run into a friend of yours from high [TS]

  school and it turns out there a TV [TS]

  producer and they're looking for new [TS]

  properties they say you're into comics [TS]

  you have anything i should look at [TS]

  anything that we might be something that [TS]

  we could turn into a a sellable kind of [TS]

  property [TS]

  do you have anything off the top of your [TS]

  hand that you would you tell this person [TS]

  that you just ran into on the sidewalk [TS]

  if you're your enemy from high school [TS]

  who now is looking for a a tip about [TS]

  about comics you can think about it [TS]

  well i think i have to ask for talking a [TS]

  limited run series for something that [TS]

  they want if they want a syndicated [TS]

  resistance that isn't specific hey there [TS]

  just looking for anything that they can [TS]

  pick up their bosses they don't get [TS]

  fired [TS]

  oh I know Sandman mystery theater than [TS]

  nineteen thirties Sandman by a guy davis [TS]

  and Matt know the ponytail did the mage [TS]

  the writer important the ponytail man [TS]

  also did Grendel wrote you guys are [TS]

  there be there shaking their heads of [TS]

  many people who are listening to this he [TS]

  did great back [TS]

  ah his name is on the tip of my tongue [TS]

  on that Murdock no that's not right now [TS]

  it'll come to me it's like all right [TS]

  he's blond created Grendel and mage and [TS]

  now is writing Madame Xanadu or whatever [TS]

  oh you see my friend Madame zat Arras [TS]

  right to the guy yeah okay I know you're [TS]

  talking about a mystery theater but that [TS]

  is actually great because it's very [TS]

  there isn't a superhero costumes it's [TS]

  really about the relationship between [TS]

  Wesley Dodds and Diane what's her name [TS]

  and that relationship is so beautiful [TS]

  and amazing and told so magical agner [TS]

  matt wagner thank you you're welcome [TS]

  google yeah but it's developed so [TS]

  well and how she goes from this sort of [TS]

  your girl he meets it was almost told [TS]

  from her point of view a lot and then [TS]

  how she becomes a full part of this [TS]

  relationship in his Sandman and it's a [TS]

  great series and I think would make a [TS]

  good television show in a Louis and [TS]

  Clark II kind of way but without without [TS]

  teri hatcher yeah that's what I was [TS]

  thinking you got ya see ya all right [TS]

  Lisa any thoughts you know I'm actually [TS]

  i would pitch Tim Hunter because it goes [TS]

  back it goes back to the whole well it's [TS]

  a couple hot points we talked about [TS]

  which is what you're talking about [TS]

  somebody who is struggling with the [TS]

  slings and arrows of adolescence because [TS]

  you know over the course of the over the [TS]

  course of serious from this gawky 12 or [TS]

  13 year old kid to being 17 or 18 years [TS]

  old and he has to come into his powers [TS]

  and he's got a messed-up family [TS]

  situation has to try to unravel and [TS]

  there's a woman here there's a girl [TS]

  falls in love with who gets screwed over [TS]

  by somebody who may or may not be Tim's [TS]

  mother and it could also work as one of [TS]

  those oh here's our caper of the week [TS]

  where this week we're done with fairies [TS]

  or this week we're dealing with somebody [TS]

  who wants to do the targets of Beltane [TS]

  in the public park or whatever and it [TS]

  would work again because you have the [TS]

  the overarching Who am I with her [TS]

  whether Tim Hunter themes and you also [TS]

  have the the the episodic here's how he [TS]

  solves this problem magic and it could [TS]

  be cheap because you wouldn't have to [TS]

  rely on too many special effects because [TS]

  that's the problem with a lot of [TS]

  superhero ones is certainly true I i am [TS]

  i'm drawing a blank here i actually had [TS]

  a very clever and question I I I now I [TS]

  got nothing I was so blown away by your [TS]

  by your answers that I have completely [TS]

  invincible that you go to answers and I [TS]

  do love invincible but it's absolutely a [TS]

  nightmare but they would be that's [TS]

  thatthat's animated let's go with the [TS]

  enemy yeah one of the yes it would be [TS]

  beautiful animated series such gorgeous [TS]

  start the effort anyway if you could get [TS]

  that emotion wow so since I have [TS]

  completely lost the train of thought [TS]

  there i'm going to shift gears one last [TS]

  time and and say Clancy Brown is the [TS]

  ville termites oh my gosh [TS]

  hey Lisa did you read those uh those [TS]

  micronauts comic books i love you i did [TS]

  i did read them what did you think [TS]

  from from the perspective of somebody [TS]

  you probably didn't read them in 1978 [TS]

  you know I didn't but if you had handed [TS]

  them to me and said guess what year they [TS]

  were written in I could have um like oh [TS]

  so this would be late seventies early [TS]

  release just based on the art alone [TS]

  which was a nice trip down memory lane [TS]

  I get the feeling i had destroyed my [TS]

  childhood know what I was gonna say is I [TS]

  get that feeling i would have gotten a [TS]

  little bit more out of them if I could [TS]

  have cross-referenced them with the [TS]

  actual toys because there's a lot of [TS]

  technologies that came up and and and [TS]

  and many other jobs as much as you think [TS]

  it was in the terms of a TV or a toy by [TS]

  in microns ended up being pretty far [TS]

  away from the toys just because they [TS]

  were it was pretty limited [TS]

  that said there was some pretty there [TS]

  were there was something that i really [TS]

  like such as the character who foresees [TS]

  a human now he's a centaur then he's a [TS]

  human again then he's a center when he [TS]

  feels like it for prints are gone his [TS]

  sentence at Baron cars has brought body [TS]

  banks you see ya [TS]

  the body begs her to a centaur because [TS]

  the toy you could take the white horse [TS]

  and that and the guy and you can take [TS]

  the legs off the guy instead of the body [TS]

  banks are really cool idea the idea that [TS]

  you have this rich / class that [TS]

  basically has has guaranteed themselves [TS]

  immortality by taking surface and you [TS]

  know borrowing their bacon over using [TS]

  their body parts it's like that novel / [TS]

  movie just commit never let me go where [TS]

  Oh congratulations poor people your job [TS]

  is to provide fodder for the decadent [TS]

  rich [TS]

  yeah that mean the mean old the [TS]

  patrician lady yanking out a young young [TS]

  body in the body banks and she picks [TS]

  sadly she picks the name of the woman [TS]

  who is the rebel leader [TS]

  oh god yeah the toad or splitter with a [TS]

  slug slug that's her name yes yes but it [TS]

  was a bad one horrible coincidence there [TS]

  one of things i love about that is that [TS]

  what is that they set up this whole Star [TS]

  Wars plot and then they immediately blow [TS]

  you into earth so that because like the [TS]

  Star Wars plotters part 1 part 2 is ok [TS]

  but I love your time sequence or how to [TS]

  make them tiny and we send into florida [TS]

  and there's that there's the the moment [TS]

  that really sets the stage about when [TS]

  this is taking place is that they knock [TS]

  out the power in daytona beach florida [TS]

  and the guy random guy shouts I can't [TS]

  watch donnie and marie yeah like wow [TS]

  okay it is the seventies alright but [TS]

  then it ends up with the NASA astronauts [TS]

  and there's the crazy nasa astronaut who [TS]

  part machine [TS]

  I mean we got the Prometheus pit where [TS]

  where he can fling things into alternate [TS]

  universes and Aaron Carter comes out and [TS]

  he's the size of a human and and this is [TS]

  the direction of captain universe which [TS]

  thrown in there means else's shoes and [TS]

  it is insane let me let me pretend to be [TS]

  the voice of the audience uh who those [TS]

  listening may not have read the [TS]

  Micronauts recently or just say [TS]

  everything the is there any way I could [TS]

  get this fabulous thing aside from ebay [TS]

  well okay so the best places you could [TS]

  get this uh there's there's great [TS]

  adjacent there's the bill torrentget [TS]

  torrent yeah if you want to pirate it's [TS]

  not actually available for rights [TS]

  reasons I don't think you could feel to [TS]

  set and if you do look for the Maginot [TS]

  special edition bittorrent I'll get you [TS]

  the first 12 issues in their recolored [TS]

  kind of very nice redone version the on [TS]

  otherwise checker the checker publishing [TS]

  never did a micro Nazi took a lot of [TS]

  these yeah your property i think there's [TS]

  no way I think there's no collection [TS]

  beyond the the five special edition [TS]

  issues because you could get on ebay [TS]

  would you say the economic store for [TS]

  cheap because the rights issues are so [TS]

  muddled and nobody knows exactly who has [TS]

  the rights to do watch that that's [TS]

  probably means there's nobody to see you [TS]

  if you bittorrent uh i would hate it i [TS]

  would we are not lawyers we cannot give [TS]

  legal yes I would hate to promote [TS]

  bittorrent on this on this episode other [TS]

  than to say that it is available and i'm [TS]

  sure those issues are readily available [TS]

  on bittorrent and it may or may not be [TS]

  true that one of them one of the [TS]

  Micronauts issues on bittorrent was [TS]

  missing a page and that i scanned and [TS]

  sent of the guy who was doing that [TS]

  torrent probably not true [TS]

  probably not true probably night he [TS]

  probably didn't do that h8 of didn't you [TS]

  try any of this at home [TS]

  that's a great missing page which I had [TS]

  because i have all those issues anyway [TS]

  it is it is a I'll obviously it's hard [TS]

  for me to to take my childhood out of [TS]

  the equation but i love the idea of [TS]

  saying your comic book writer and you've [TS]

  got these toys and you get star wars is [TS]

  really big and make something up and [TS]

  where those first 12 issues that that [TS]

  that that that they did a bill manlo who [TS]

  had the crazy imagination and Michael [TS]

  golden who is the artist on those first [TS]

  12 issues it's just it's unlike [TS]

  classroom much else that I've seen and [TS]

  it's funny because it could have easily [TS]

  just keep [TS]

  tiling things on it got revolutions [TS]

  going on they've got and as I said [TS]

  they've got they've got you know that [TS]

  resides the integrated it'sit's yeah oh [TS]

  yeah oh yeah there's the battle have an [TS]

  alibi don't have it off your and his kin [TS]

  his brother who is the albino want to be [TS]

  remembered it's nice to hear that the [TS]

  child had keeping your living up to [TS]

  expectations still because I did but [TS]

  that childhood comic for me was the [TS]

  x-men and when i go back and reread some [TS]

  of those issues now I just I after [TS]

  reading a few of my stock so i would [TS]

  never go back and read in acts because [TS]

  my memory of it is so much better than [TS]

  the actual like x-men 1 99 when Rachel [TS]

  became phoenix and i just love it and [TS]

  now it doesn't have the same Wolverine [TS]

  saying for the hundredth time I'm the [TS]

  best there is at what I do and I wasn't [TS]

  very nicely to me when I was a kid that [TS]

  was like how I thought oh he's resigned [TS]

  himself to his dark fate and right now [TS]

  it's yeah having fun to read i think [TS]

  that jason recently helped me find the [TS]

  first comic book i remember buying which [TS]

  was manual x manual number 5 193 la soon [TS]

  where they often said I think they have [TS]

  some that some of the fantastic four get [TS]

  abducted by the boon and so the x-men [TS]

  have to step in and help out Reed [TS]

  Richards the biggest douche in that [TS]

  episode VII and sweat and that's the [TS]

  word I I don't like to eat a douche i [TS]

  don't like to use that word but in this [TS]

  case that I mean in the splash page at [TS]

  least there with his with a pipe [TS]

  oh yeah like that hot little serpent [TS]

  search and see because he's ignored the [TS]

  dinner she made and matt said well this [TS]

  is interesting is I went back and I [TS]

  reread it as an adult and I could [TS]

  actually find that the the hooks in the [TS]

  comic that that resonated with me as a [TS]

  kid and honestly I think the reason it [TS]

  got me hooked is because that's actually [TS]

  a comic where storm and Kitty Pryde kick [TS]

  a lot of ass is from from the page 3 on [TS]

  and so you can kind of overlook the fact [TS]

  that Cyclops is running around a cravat [TS]

  and making that up yeah and at times and [TS]

  there's and it's just a really it [TS]

  frankly it's a stupid story but there [TS]

  are parts of it were you know by my [TS]

  fifth-grade imaginations like wow and [TS]

  welcome back and reading it I could [TS]

  figure out that that's what happened and [TS]

  that's what matters of things about [TS]

  those annuals back [TS]

  from that period too is that you had a [TS]

  self-contained story [TS]

  yeah it was letter than your story [TS]

  because days before pages right so you [TS]

  could end up i think about backups in it [TS]

  but yeah it was it was as they also the [TS]

  president that the the Savior with his [TS]

  love affair with the princess of the [TS]

  Shiar Empire thing was interwoven [TS]

  through it too right but it was you [TS]

  could read it without and it was big and [TS]

  it is meant to be kind of a widescreen [TS]

  spectacle which I mean the 22 you [TS]

  mentioned doctor who earlier it's like a [TS]

  doctor who christmas special is right [TS]

  the rules are not the same because it's [TS]

  meant to be seen by a broader audience [TS]

  the thing wrestling with with Colossus [TS]

  at the end of it tonight all right it's [TS]

  all in video and mud wrestling Colossus [TS]

  another they wear on their arm wrestle [TS]

  out and then Kitty Pryde comes out in a [TS]

  bikini distracts Colossus and again in [TS]

  fifth grade--well say that's interesting [TS]

  yes why what'd ya mean a [TS]

  fifteen-year-old can't ride in a bikini [TS]

  yeah well it was the fact that she could [TS]

  that the boys were interested in her it [TS]

  was the hole right now she can kick butt [TS]

  and boys liked her and that was kind of [TS]

  a that was kind of a different message [TS]

  than the one that a lot of girls receive [TS]

  with the pop culture they get you know [TS]

  when preadolescent period so that that's [TS]

  right if the boy's reaction to Kitty [TS]

  Pryde was a bit different [TS]

  yeah they're women out there who are the [TS]

  keys around me look at what was it was [TS]

  gonna say wow she looks good in a bikini [TS]

  and she kicks ass yeah right and she's [TS]

  my age and she's mine temporary that was [TS]

  right yeah well I mean this is why you [TS]

  will you will find a lot of [TS]

  30-somethings and 40-somethings who [TS]

  really like kitty pryde is because she [TS]

  was RP writer contemporary people [TS]

  outside of joss whedon in michael bendis [TS]

  although again well I mean that's one of [TS]

  the reasons that I i love when I here [TS]

  just wait and talk about katie price [TS]

  because he and I have apparently had the [TS]

  exact same experience with the x-men and [TS]

  you know that's the other piece of the [TS]

  buffy puzzle writing spider-man premise [TS]

  with Kitty Pryde is the lead was sort of [TS]

  and can I just say I loved it in the [TS]

  ultimate spider-man universal spider-man [TS]

  kitty pryde got together I want my [TS]

  favorite things about advanced did it [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  kitty part of peters world in high [TS]

  school writing was his connection to her [TS]

  that it was like she was also Jewish and [TS]

  that was that [TS]

  I'm going to hurt Brian Brian Brian [TS]

  Michael Bendis talk about that she's [TS]

  like get a crush on her but it's also [TS]

  partly because she was Jewish like a [TS]

  Jewish kid no hi or so when she was and [TS]

  she was from Susan [TS]

  should get a Midwest yeah i'll go [TS]

  because she went back to Chicago and [TS]

  the-the-the normal yeah actually that's [TS]

  what I miss about comics from now from [TS]

  like the eighties is like we know Katie [TS]

  Price hometown with Chicago and I any of [TS]

  the modern characters you have there [TS]

  isn't that sort of level of you [TS]

  completeness about them [TS]

  maybe maybe it's there and we just don't [TS]

  know it I don't know [TS]

  no it's not there now but that's that's [TS]

  the example I mean Ben's doing that with [TS]

  the ultimate spider-man it's one of [TS]

  these actually very TV like to bring us [TS]

  back all the way around creation of an [TS]

  ensemble cast that you you would expect [TS]

  in a comic book like that and yet you [TS]

  know ultimate spider-man is really kind [TS]

  of an ensemble series now where it's it [TS]

  big beefy he could he would rename it [TS]

  Aunt May's house of wayward superheroes [TS]

  because that is what that comic is not [TS]

  sure there is TV adaptation there's [TS]

  usually right yeah right yeah I don't [TS]

  mind that you know nice man is here now [TS]

  great whenever it's like it's like that [TS]

  old spider-man [TS]

  old spider-man [TS]

  this amazing friend or two and where [TS]

  they have them statute that you could [TS]

  turn and they have to swing in teenagers [TS]

  the better show yeah all that all right [TS]

  well I think we've run out of of time [TS]

  and yes don't use bittorrent kids unless [TS]

  you want to download the Micronauts [TS]

  anyway until next time i'm jason l and I [TS]

  i will be next time to actually and I'd [TS]

  like to thank my guess [TS]

  jason reitman thank you thanks for [TS]

  coming over and Lisa Schmeisser thank [TS]

  you very well try to have you a few more [TS]

  times before you have to be tried banks [TS]

  um well I actually kind of fun if I if I [TS]

  login i'll sleep deprived and and and oh [TS]

  yeah my head with hot guys with the baby [TS]

  asleep until it until enjoy a site where [TS]

  they babies are predictable that way [TS]

  oh yeah oh yeah you you know you can [TS]

  look at a baby and say oh yeah she'll be [TS]

  down for that now [TS]

  now if I understand the whiskey works [TS]

  parenting tips not serious okay too many [TS]

  such misers parenting tips podcast it [TS]

  will be a short broadcast in any [TS]

  authority until next time we faithfully [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello ladies look at your podcast then [TS]

  look at the uncomfortable podcast then [TS]

  back at your parkas then back to the [TS]

  uncomfortable podcast sadly your podcast [TS]

  is not being comfortable podcast but if [TS]

  you visit the in topical com [TS]

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