2: A Feeling of Vertigo
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interoperable Titus number two
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so one of the premises of doing comics
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on this podcast is not to talk about the
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minutiae of the continuity happening
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with single issues being released this
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week in the comic book stores and to
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have to take it back level talk about
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things on the level of stuff that's
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largely available and trade paperback or
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hardcover so you can get in your comic
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store or your local bookstore or on
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amazon or a readers as you to both have
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done yes we have iPads here right with
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our topic here so one of us did it
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legally and the what other one
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maybe not as much right yeah it's a
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shame well i think that that you stole
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Lisa anyone happy i'm jason l and i am
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here with just to make it extra
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confusing jason reitman hello and Lisa
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Schmeisser hi there and we're here to
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talk comics it's funny that I'm in the
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room with people who probably do visit
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comic stores regularly i am a fraud and
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and do not i am a trade paperback kind
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of person or a digital download kind of
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person but i like the idea of doing a
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comic book club and and picking comic
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that is available readily in bookstores
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and then talking about animal i'm sure
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go off on some tangent our topic this
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week is the unwritten which is from
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vertigo by mike perry and peanut grown i
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carry and Peter grass
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mhm this was lisa selection in the comic
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book club i believe yes very good
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thank you Mike carries name sounds
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vaguely familiar but I know nothing
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about this comic and went into it with
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no expectations whatsoever beyond the
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sort of one sentence line that you used
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lisa said you want to explain to people
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what what this story is about sure i'll
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start with my kerry and Peter groans
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both of whom have been in the vertigo
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stable for quite a while they worked
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together previously on Lucifer series of
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Lucifer series was a spinoff from the
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Sandman books so these guys have the
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lineage that goes back to like the
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nineties to be getting vertigo
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yeah exactly so and vertigo is ready
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and is that a creator-owned or is that a
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that's DC own which is why the Sandman
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was in there buddy it's it's so it's
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their adult line is that the best way to
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describe it over there almost every
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trader fiction they're not in tights and
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flights line for lack of a better word
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their stories tend to focus on the
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supernatural or on Norrish elements or
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on narratives that are not necessarily
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something and find in mainstream
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publishers like DC Marvel image to get
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examples of their current line the book
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Northlanders the author of whom eludes
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me but is basically writing stories
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about Vikings and another is you guys an
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alternate universe somewhere Viking
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comments like a mainstream and
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superheroes are like insanely readers
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can watch me that will come up higher
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and water rights but you know that
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there's get by kings are big there yeah
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and for is the only crossover hero there
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yeah but another one of Vertigo's the
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more critically beloved at the moment
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scalped which is a book about Native
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American FBI agent who has to go work
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undercover on the deeply corrupt
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reservation on which he was raised
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so again on titan on flight for a while
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they were really into face supernatural
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stuff and they've moved away from that
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thank God but the unwritten actions
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right back into it more or less because
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the entire book is about the power of
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stories to shape people's perceptions of
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reality or even to create reality
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depending on who has power over the
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story and what kind of authority the
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audience gives them that was I thought
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the theme of this whole first book
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pointing out that Tommy Taylor that you
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know hate stories can be truth truth can
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be sorry so the concept here is that
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this is guy named Tommy Taylor Thomas
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Taylor and his father was a novelist and
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he wrote a series of books that are
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suspiciously similar to harry potter
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books they are impacting to the point
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where it's actually hilarious because
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they're there's instead of having a
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lightning scar on his forehead he's got
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a tattoo on the back of his hand the
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writing style is uncannily rolling like
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with the adverbial explosions right and
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harry potter was actually sort of
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similar to the books of magic
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Tim Hunter would you also a vertigo
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title interested in your gross worked on
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the Tim Hunter books of magic all the
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way through the run of the series so
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it's all kind of come back around yeah
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there's a lot of self-referential things
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how many even mentioned the the books of
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magic in the first issue of the
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when they're talking about harry potter
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and the similarities of all three of
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them i'm amused by the fact that it's
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it's tommy taylor and his two sidekicks
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said the girl and the boy and it's it's
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a very round remaining kind of thing and
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then one of the issues opens amusingly
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there's a writer's retreat at the house
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where it's not really a fan and and one
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of the writers has written this
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fanfiction we're essentially all these
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lovable kid characters disemboweled and
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and so at you you think you're watching
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another example from the book including
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the pros passages and everything in it
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and it turns out that it's this horrible
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kind of what if we killed them all kind
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of thing which which place with yet
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another theme of this comic which is
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it's all about creation and and
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creativity and creation of fictional
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ideas and how in the in the premise of
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the comic they clash with reality
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because this is Tom Taylor isn't Tommy
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Taylor but everybody assumes he is and
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then there's this spin on it which is
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that you start to wonder if perhaps he
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is and that this might have been based
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or unreality or the book created the
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reality more created him or it's
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fascinating and with the only the first
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trade which is five issues there's no
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answer and if you'd read the second
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trailer I guess you've got an answer but
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I haven't the second trade can not only
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this wednesday so our time we should
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vary time yeah not available digitally
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yes you're downloading something that's
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pirated because it's almost like a
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detective story in that you have the
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first four episodes which introduced you
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to Tommy and the dilemma and the themes
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that will reverberate throughout the
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entire series and then you've got the
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story of record kipling and his
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encounter with the same people and how
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it turned out for him in that last one
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with Kipling it kind of restated the
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themes but not much more obvious in case
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you didn't get it from the first four
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here's what we're really talking about
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it was like a fill-in issue because it's
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a standalone thing but yet it was also
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that lets minded back now that you've
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been dropped in the middle of the story
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and wanted back and show you that this
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has been going on for some time because
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even read kipling and Mark Twain once
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wrote by these demonic evil strange
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people who get it from this power felt
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very classic vertigo in that way and
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very much to like those earlier stories
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in The Sandman and things where every
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now and then there would be an issue or
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a chapter that sort of stepped back from
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the ongoing narrative
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kind of reiterate themes of the
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narrative because they worked with
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Shakespeare into the original Sandman
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series as one of the fictional people
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what I was going to say is one of the
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things I found interesting was how you
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had the British writer who made his deal
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with the devil is that were and the
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American writer who saw right through it
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shortly before the sinister overload
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stable you know America's what's going
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on and I was actually wondering if this
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was kind of these American writers way
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of thumbing their nose at vertigo or
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thumbing their nose that their forebears
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because vertigo had that long tradition
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of they've got a lot of British writers
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in their stable and these British
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writers have been great about plundering
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classic literature classic comics and
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these are American writers saying you
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know what we can do the same thing but
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we're gonna do it on our terms and we
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would like to take you along for the
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ride and see how it turns out my carries
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American it was I just assumed he was
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british she's working for vertigo now
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actually i just read his bio this
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morning and I believe he and Peter
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grocer both American one of them was
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from response and I think so
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which is never know game in this now
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though you didn't Minnesota high kick
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some horrible and Midwestern a British
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pipeline back and forth where they just
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keep importing this right Ellen full but
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i think i've had made notes early on in
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the series how my carrier was born in
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Liverpool England there goes my re or
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just read exercises vertical lives in
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London yeah is all about those on there
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goes my theory because I honestly
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thought they're making a statement about
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the way Americans tend to see their
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stories as opposed to the British
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tradition of of storytelling legend
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where when you think about the British
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have this tradition of King Arthur that
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goes back thousands of years and has
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been polished and and modified through
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different historic cycles it certainly
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is fascinating because this story set in
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London initially and then and then we
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moved to the mainland Europe bi and the
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characters are and references are
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largely for british authors and then so
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in this fifth issue the the last part of
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the trade paperback vol.1 when Mark
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Twain appears and there's this you know
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seen in the US where Kipling comes to
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meet Mark Twain it is kind of in an
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interesting question of what it what are
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you trying to say here and because he
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did sort of see through it and was able
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to create this work and so one of the
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questions in this series is
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it is the series saying that creativity
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is essentially a magical power that is
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enabled by this in in the series case
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this this source or is it not
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and is it is it subvert it in some way
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but it does exist otherwise because Mark
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Twain and told them to to hit the bricks
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yeah and Mark Twain is Mark Twain right
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well i don't think your theory is
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actually wrong even though it's actually
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just maybe we just move my carrier rise
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to see but it actually was nothing more
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to a sort of classic British perception
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of not just American writers but the
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American person you know sort of that
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like wisdom in the simple people
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approaching well of course mark twain
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wouldn't fall for this because he's so
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of the earth and folksy that he would
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see right through all of this
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manipulation and of the shadowy
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organization and where the Brits of
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course would fall right into it because
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they're all about there might also be
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some this might also be above the theme
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that later ties into the whole
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fictitious geography because at the end
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of the trade they they do have an
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excerpt from Wilson Taylor's map where
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he puts in pins right so Tommy Tommy's
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father the one thing that Tommy ever
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really did the bond with his father the
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writer was that his father taught him
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the geographic locations where things
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that were fictional happened yes and
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which seemed to be important not
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important at the time but seems to be
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very important to becoming more
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important now especially since it when
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he breaks into the safe it's remember
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what I taught you
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right right so so so it's very much this
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question of like what it what is how
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does fiction and meet reality and does
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it does it is there a sense of place
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rightly yeah and it's actually one of
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the parts of the book i liked the most
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as I've always been somewhat interested
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in where fictional things happen in real
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life in growing up in New England and
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going to the Hawthorne is House of the
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Seven Gables and in New York City always
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be in some random bar and be a little
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plaque that the gift of the magi was
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yeah I always wanted to go down to
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Greenwich Village and see where dr.
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Strange's house isn't right
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yeah because it's a real address and
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there's nothing there and of course
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that's part of the joke is that people
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who don't know him he's hidden his
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sanctum sanctorum behind 7-eleven or
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is that right there it in the the soil
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literary gps so I think they really
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haven't but it is also interesting in
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that the book is talking about where
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fiction and reality meet and these
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locations are at last sort of physical
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place of where these things eat this is
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real and the unreal so who is this guy
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who is this antagonist this bearded guy
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with a scythe who kills everybody
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sorry to spoil alert because everybody
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and everybody in this house except for
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Tommy Taylor you know do what we know
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about this guy is he he's a
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representative of some force that has
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been around and that is steering writers
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to write about certain families why he
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killed Kipling's daughter spoiler rayon
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we also know that he lost his hand
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courtesy of wilson because they
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mentioned that let's take his other hand
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yeah they mentioned that in the book and
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the hand is imbued with some sort of
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magical power because when Tommy goes to
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visit Wilson's former mistress after she
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delivers the message that this literary
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cabal tells her to it turns out that she
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also tried to slip in a little something
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for Tommy and he threatened her with the
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hands you've seen this hand you know
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right right and he does suggest at one
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point that he's the devil although it
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was actually discussed this with that
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great I'm Lucifer the bringer of light
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says the siam whose lighting his
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cigarette and he says you might have
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been off by a few feet on that one right
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also interesting in the metal thing from
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the fact that might carry the most
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popular vertigo book was Lucifer the
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Lightbringer yes
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see I all of these references completely
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lost on me did this is why I rely on you
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guys but there's also there's so much
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about this book that is I don't know
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self-referential the right term it's not
[TS]
◼
►
a really rich family background is the
[TS]
◼
►
way I thought of it where I just you can
[TS]
◼
►
really tell that its forebears are in
[TS]
◼
►
Tim Hunter because I got to be honest I
[TS]
◼
►
was thinking of Tim Hunter a lot more
[TS]
◼
►
reading this book especially through the
[TS]
◼
►
London sequences and that 200 is Tim
[TS]
◼
►
Hunter is a boy wizard
[TS]
◼
►
oh this is in his various harry potter
[TS]
◼
►
before harry potter was around yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
that was part of another it's another
[TS]
◼
►
version another version ok and the way
[TS]
◼
►
he was originally introduced neil gaiman
[TS]
◼
►
wrote the original I think four-part
[TS]
◼
►
miniseries with him right with a
[TS]
◼
►
different artist was a painting prestige
[TS]
◼
►
thing is beautiful one of my first I and
[TS]
◼
►
looks like that i read and really got
[TS]
◼
►
and over the course of that book tim
[TS]
◼
►
runs into John Constantine and I think
[TS]
◼
►
dr. strange at one point
[TS]
◼
►
What's Wrong universal on you Adam
[TS]
◼
►
street and you know he wasn't ready to
[TS]
◼
►
all the DC mystical characters it was a
[TS]
◼
►
swamp thing you know that something
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't it was a mr. e Phantom Stranger
[TS]
◼
►
very classic 16 so DC literally i will
[TS]
◼
►
call it John Constantine the hellblazer
[TS]
◼
►
and this was just before the vertical
[TS]
◼
►
launch or maybe soon before the vertical
[TS]
◼
►
launch we're talking like 1991 so it's
[TS]
◼
►
sort of the equivalent of what would
[TS]
◼
►
have been vertigo if it had been
[TS]
◼
►
yeah alright the same way that Eleanor
[TS]
◼
►
swamp thing is widely considered to be
[TS]
◼
►
vertical before alright was invented yet
[TS]
◼
►
that's a good rule of thumb and then
[TS]
◼
►
what they did with Tim Hunter is they
[TS]
◼
►
did books of magic which was 75 issue
[TS]
◼
►
serious which actually have the flimsies
[TS]
◼
►
and then after that they did names of
[TS]
◼
►
magic which was a 25 issue series
[TS]
◼
►
because people were not buying it but
[TS]
◼
►
one of the themes and names of magic
[TS]
◼
►
comes down to the power of words to set
[TS]
◼
►
the foundation for reality and one of
[TS]
◼
►
the villainous forces they have to
[TS]
◼
►
defeat is this this want to converse
[TS]
◼
►
creature that brings out of the book and
[TS]
◼
►
the only way it is stated and ultimately
[TS]
◼
►
defeated is when somebody says the right
[TS]
◼
►
so so Tim Hunter has always been a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit about that what is real what
[TS]
◼
►
what words have the power to shape not
[TS]
◼
►
to shape and these guys work on Tim
[TS]
◼
►
Hunter and they went to Lucifer which
[TS]
◼
►
also this really heavy metal article
[TS]
◼
►
background what you just said about the
[TS]
◼
►
writing this stuff is what's shaping
[TS]
◼
►
reality in the fourth issue that's
[TS]
◼
►
exactly what happened when you had that
[TS]
◼
►
bad literary gathering of more writers
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you know in the the house that
[TS]
◼
►
Frankenstein was written in discussing
[TS]
◼
►
horror and then the book becomes a
[TS]
◼
►
horror genre command yeah dad Joshua or
[TS]
◼
►
oh yeah kill our one-at-a-time a dark
[TS]
◼
►
house in the middle of a storm yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
that reminded me of the movie adaptation
[TS]
◼
►
yeah which had that same sort of the
[TS]
◼
►
movie is talking about we don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
become this thing that's going to be all
[TS]
◼
►
shoot-'em-up are chasing and then the
[TS]
◼
►
movie becomes yes
[TS]
◼
►
not that it's not my favorite movie
[TS]
◼
►
I I actually think it's it i think the
[TS]
◼
►
clever thing was that that was what they
[TS]
◼
►
were trying to do and in the end they
[TS]
◼
►
succeeded in making a bad movie about
[TS]
◼
►
making a bad movie right because it
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't it didn't seem ironic enough it
[TS]
◼
►
just seemed bad i like it on a metal of
[TS]
◼
►
but I like well that and that's one of
[TS]
◼
►
the things that really struck me about
[TS]
◼
►
the unwritten is it for me it was
[TS]
◼
►
actually very hard to get into the story
[TS]
◼
►
of the actual events of the unwritten
[TS]
◼
►
because i was so pulled out and viewing
[TS]
◼
►
it on that metal level of this is a
[TS]
◼
►
story about telling stories and about
[TS]
◼
►
the effect of storytelling i love that
[TS]
◼
►
stuff that is some of my favorite kind
[TS]
◼
►
of work in general i love love analyzing
[TS]
◼
►
works of fiction and discovering that
[TS]
◼
►
they're talking about themselves that
[TS]
◼
►
this is my topic for another podcast but
[TS]
◼
►
my favorite thing about the finale of
[TS]
◼
►
no spoilers here other than to say that
[TS]
◼
►
I felt like it was I liked it many
[TS]
◼
►
that's one of things I like best about
[TS]
◼
►
it was I felt like it was actually
[TS]
◼
►
talking about itself was talking about
[TS]
◼
►
what happens when you're at the end of a
[TS]
◼
►
story and the last episode of a TV show
[TS]
◼
►
and you want to say goodbye to everybody
[TS]
◼
►
because you know you're not going to see
[TS]
◼
►
them ever again and that it was very
[TS]
◼
►
self-aware and I know that doesn't work
[TS]
◼
►
for some people but I i got that same
[TS]
◼
►
kind of vibe from the unwritten that
[TS]
◼
►
without to the point where i was almost
[TS]
◼
►
lost on some of those people are getting
[TS]
◼
►
murdered in the house where where Mary
[TS]
◼
►
Shelley read frankenstein because i was
[TS]
◼
►
kinda more engaged in in the mystery of
[TS]
◼
►
this intertextual ality of like is it
[TS]
◼
►
real and how does it affect it and what
[TS]
◼
►
does it all mean and and I you know I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know if that that happen for you
[TS]
◼
►
guys but I didn't I was I was more
[TS]
◼
►
focused on that I was on the fact that
[TS]
◼
►
their characters and who are they and
[TS]
◼
►
that they're being murdered horribly
[TS]
◼
►
because they're just fictional
[TS]
◼
►
characters and then boom which of course
[TS]
◼
►
they all are right and that's the the
[TS]
◼
►
interesting thing in that I sort of look
[TS]
◼
►
at that the whole slasher part is sort
[TS]
◼
►
of a backdrop like uslike against the
[TS]
◼
►
bigger issues after the fact that
[TS]
◼
►
establishes the villain right now he's
[TS]
◼
►
actually really bad
[TS]
◼
►
I'm engines also really cathartic for
[TS]
◼
►
people who really hates genre
[TS]
◼
►
classification because they make a point
[TS]
◼
►
in earlier issue of having his people
[TS]
◼
►
identified by the genres that they write
[TS]
◼
►
and there's that one really annoying
[TS]
◼
►
person who's got oh I read a sexy
[TS]
◼
►
vampire detective and another guy's like
[TS]
◼
►
'oh i take care of HP Lovecraft and one
[TS]
◼
►
guys like I do torture porn and they had
[TS]
◼
►
unabashedly embraced their market niches
[TS]
◼
►
her and then all of them just get killed
[TS]
◼
►
brutally right and I wonder if it comes
[TS]
◼
►
down to the creator's saying something
[TS]
◼
►
along the lines of look you know the
[TS]
◼
►
genre can make you but it can also kill
[TS]
◼
►
you or look we don't think that John was
[TS]
◼
►
a good idea this is so cathartic being
[TS]
◼
►
able to kill them and I think there's
[TS]
◼
►
something there about following your
[TS]
◼
►
creative Muse vs selling out
[TS]
◼
►
that's part of the story because in many
[TS]
◼
►
ways you could view those people as
[TS]
◼
►
being sell out there they're writing for
[TS]
◼
►
an audience in a market and they become
[TS]
◼
►
successful at it and then if you flip to
[TS]
◼
►
the the last chapter 15 issue with
[TS]
◼
►
kipling and Twain I mean that's
[TS]
◼
►
basically what the story is there is the
[TS]
◼
►
Kipling sort of sold-out and it made him
[TS]
◼
►
famous by selling out so it's like are
[TS]
◼
►
is it like a deal with the devil where
[TS]
◼
►
you become famous because you sold out
[TS]
◼
►
or is that just unusual cost effect the
[TS]
◼
►
sellouts the ones who become famous
[TS]
◼
►
because that's why they become famous as
[TS]
◼
►
they've sold out and Twain is not a
[TS]
◼
►
sellout and just sent them away that
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's really interesting it's like
[TS]
◼
►
that two levels are these writers
[TS]
◼
►
selling out and is that what this is
[TS]
◼
►
about is not being true to yourself are
[TS]
◼
►
all the right ourselves and how does the
[TS]
◼
►
wild fit into that because we're the
[TS]
◼
►
mysterious character whose name is
[TS]
◼
►
escaping me at the moment the blond guy
[TS]
◼
►
hi when Kipling is worried about Wilder
[TS]
◼
►
that's wild that's why i asked a wild
[TS]
◼
►
and he says while doesn't actually have
[TS]
◼
►
you know staying power it's a piece of
[TS]
◼
►
the moment but my friends and I we don't
[TS]
◼
►
like him at all right which is
[TS]
◼
►
interesting because what is that what
[TS]
◼
►
does he want his trigger is true to
[TS]
◼
►
himself or he's true to himself and
[TS]
◼
►
writing things that they specifically
[TS]
◼
►
don't want cause Kipling says point2
[TS]
◼
►
wild was that he was granted a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
his lines are very facile and flip but
[TS]
◼
►
his whole body of work is devoted to
[TS]
◼
►
pointing out hypocrisy and and telling
[TS]
◼
►
people that they need to learn to see
[TS]
◼
►
things as they truly are not as the
[TS]
◼
►
polite social delusions that are easier
[TS]
◼
►
for everybody else to swallow and there
[TS]
◼
►
is definitely a sense of this in a story
[TS]
◼
►
that this isn't just about you know
[TS]
◼
►
getting writers on the payroll it's
[TS]
◼
►
about steering but the reality or
[TS]
◼
►
theories reception of the time yeah in a
[TS]
◼
►
certain direction whatever that
[TS]
◼
►
direction might be that's interesting so
[TS]
◼
►
the idea of stories set the culture is
[TS]
◼
►
very interesting and very true if you
[TS]
◼
►
look at all the early science fiction
[TS]
◼
►
work in jewels for
[TS]
◼
►
turned in all these that the writers
[TS]
◼
►
envisioned all these things before the
[TS]
◼
►
scientists when I can make that
[TS]
◼
►
yeah wired once did this futures issue
[TS]
◼
►
is back in 1995 the reason I remember
[TS]
◼
►
this is because i actually ended up
[TS]
◼
►
writing a paper on in grad school where
[TS]
◼
►
they were interviewing futurologists or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever and the one thing that came out
[TS]
◼
►
of all the interviews was if you want to
[TS]
◼
►
find out where technology is going to be
[TS]
◼
►
read the science fiction it's happening
[TS]
◼
►
now because the kids who grew up reading
[TS]
◼
►
this stuff are then going to take into
[TS]
◼
►
their working lives right that's the
[TS]
◼
►
story about the motorola startac phone
[TS]
◼
►
which is not only named specifically to
[TS]
◼
►
reference star track but was designed by
[TS]
◼
►
a bunch of people who grew up with Star
[TS]
◼
►
Trek and wanted to flip out communicator
[TS]
◼
►
like Captain Kirk at and so they built
[TS]
◼
►
it to go back to the idea that story
[TS]
◼
►
shape the narrative of the time or
[TS]
◼
►
reflect them there's the page where you
[TS]
◼
►
see the news portal with the the google
[TS]
◼
►
search interface and the amplified news
[TS]
◼
►
network and the internet people talking
[TS]
◼
►
at once there's a forum thread is the
[TS]
◼
►
first time i think i've seen a forum
[TS]
◼
►
thread and a comic book one of the
[TS]
◼
►
people's names his bunk Moreland who is
[TS]
◼
►
a character on the wire
[TS]
◼
►
haha and the reason that stood out for
[TS]
◼
►
me is because I have totally missed that
[TS]
◼
►
I've been lucky enough to sit on another
[TS]
◼
►
academic panels were people have talked
[TS]
◼
►
about how the wire is essentially one of
[TS]
◼
►
the first examples of long-form
[TS]
◼
►
fictional reportage where as a TV series
[TS]
◼
►
it's deeply rooted in observation
[TS]
◼
►
reporting and then all of that this fax
[TS]
◼
►
got mashed into a fictional outline and
[TS]
◼
►
spit back out to people where once they
[TS]
◼
►
saw that they could then begin to see
[TS]
◼
►
how this is playing out in real life
[TS]
◼
►
there's already that fiction vs
[TS]
◼
►
nonfiction loop in the wire and then
[TS]
◼
►
there's a slight little reference to
[TS]
◼
►
riot read in the forum thing because you
[TS]
◼
►
got a to anyone standing man yeah
[TS]
◼
►
bunk Moreland and how Punk having you be
[TS]
◼
►
getting drunk with delta delta yes
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and I just you know again again you
[TS]
◼
►
could argue that the wire actually does
[TS]
◼
►
blur that line as well because i'm sure
[TS]
◼
►
there are people in Baltimore who would
[TS]
◼
►
love to tell you that look you know you
[TS]
◼
►
may have seen five seasons of this TV
[TS]
◼
►
show but this is what our it really is
[TS]
◼
►
like and I'm sure there are people
[TS]
◼
►
across the country who have this
[TS]
◼
►
impression of Baltimore based entirely
[TS]
◼
►
on five seasons of the wire right and
[TS]
◼
►
some homicide in the corner but it's all
[TS]
◼
►
based on David Simon basically writing
[TS]
◼
►
about Baltimore David Simon's created a
[TS]
◼
►
fictitious Baltimore basically which is
[TS]
◼
►
based on real-life reporting see where
[TS]
◼
►
it gets all right right that's well
[TS]
◼
►
that's interesting because there and it
[TS]
◼
►
is it is fiction based on reality yeah
[TS]
◼
►
and that is one of the core questions
[TS]
◼
►
and the unwritten is is Tommy Taylor a
[TS]
◼
►
fraud who was adopted for stolen from
[TS]
◼
►
Eastern European parents or any real and
[TS]
◼
►
is he the real Tommy Taylor or is he
[TS]
◼
►
just a kid who had not none of that he
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't created by the story of existence
[TS]
◼
►
can be seen as right name with the
[TS]
◼
►
unwritten and what and what does that
[TS]
◼
►
what does the name of this comic mean
[TS]
◼
►
with all those people who get unwritten
[TS]
◼
►
who there are dissolved into words in
[TS]
◼
►
the book which I sort of like very
[TS]
◼
►
visually was it was really compelling
[TS]
◼
►
because we're talking a lot about this
[TS]
◼
►
on the sort of the meta-level and I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think you can actually talk about
[TS]
◼
►
it or not it isn't a successful story
[TS]
◼
►
like this something that you can enjoy
[TS]
◼
►
on the meta-level and get all those sort
[TS]
◼
►
of references but also on it on just
[TS]
◼
►
that reading it as a simple story and
[TS]
◼
►
does this work as a simple story i was
[TS]
◼
►
going to say i would love to find out
[TS]
◼
►
the impression of somebody who wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
familiar with vertigo
[TS]
◼
►
well that's me or fantasy and so Jason
[TS]
◼
►
yes what is your profession
[TS]
◼
►
well as I alluded to earlier I i did
[TS]
◼
►
have a difficult time really getting
[TS]
◼
►
into it on that simple story level
[TS]
◼
►
because i kept thinking about wow this
[TS]
◼
►
is this is playing on a lot of levels
[TS]
◼
►
here because it's a it's a story about
[TS]
◼
►
stories and you know and it wants you to
[TS]
◼
►
view it that way because every issue
[TS]
◼
►
begins in a story and then pulls you out
[TS]
◼
►
of the story into reality
[TS]
◼
►
so it was obviously i don't i'm not
[TS]
◼
►
going to get any other references to
[TS]
◼
►
other not only other works but also just
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know that the history of of the
[TS]
◼
►
the kind of things that vertigo produces
[TS]
◼
►
where you look at a vertigo thing and
[TS]
◼
►
say oh it's a vertical thing I got that
[TS]
◼
►
i think i've read i'm up to like the
[TS]
◼
►
fifth issue of The Sandman I'm like
[TS]
◼
►
completely a litter about that sort of
[TS]
◼
►
thing here that neil gaiman is good dump
[TS]
◼
►
he's gonna go place is he's coming out
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's right i wonder what novel by
[TS]
◼
►
him would be like for a screenplay for
[TS]
◼
►
at episode of Doctor Who anyway we'll
[TS]
◼
►
that kid is going places so so that was
[TS]
◼
►
my challenges like the characters are
[TS]
◼
►
our i'm not entirely sure what they are
[TS]
◼
►
and if they're kind of blanks
[TS]
◼
►
I mean Tommy Taylor is in many ways in
[TS]
◼
►
this first set of stories he's really
[TS]
◼
►
been frustrating character he's he's
[TS]
◼
►
he's a kind of grumpy guy who made who
[TS]
◼
►
is unsure about his past and he's trying
[TS]
◼
►
to repel against it and say no no I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not that kid but I think there's also
[TS]
◼
►
this great question there that has to be
[TS]
◼
►
there for the story but as a result of a
[TS]
◼
►
little off-putting and there's the the
[TS]
◼
►
one other character who's the woman
[TS]
◼
►
whose name escapes me hexham
[TS]
◼
►
yeah-hoo-hoo comes in and seems to know
[TS]
◼
►
what's going on and is trying to to help
[TS]
◼
►
him along the way she herself her name
[TS]
◼
►
is like character from a fictitious
[TS]
◼
►
right work right and there's a clear and
[TS]
◼
►
it seems it seems like she may actually
[TS]
◼
►
be a fictional creation come to life
[TS]
◼
►
although again we've seen there are a
[TS]
◼
►
couple characters early on where there's
[TS]
◼
►
a guy who supposedly as the the
[TS]
◼
►
Voldemort essentially of of the of the
[TS]
◼
►
Tommy Taylor books come to life and it
[TS]
◼
►
turns out that you have Jeff keen on the
[TS]
◼
►
first page but it turns out that the
[TS]
◼
►
voltage or whatever his name my mouth
[TS]
◼
►
something out Earl folio the vampire
[TS]
◼
►
ambrosio camp at contemporary oh he's a
[TS]
◼
►
he's a he's a drifter who just risky
[TS]
◼
►
they said at least so they say right
[TS]
◼
►
which gets us back to that but again so
[TS]
◼
►
much going on and rich in that level but
[TS]
◼
►
i would have to if if I'm answering your
[TS]
◼
►
question truthfully i have to say that i
[TS]
◼
►
was i was actually maybe two engaged too
[TS]
◼
►
soon on that upper level and not able to
[TS]
◼
►
invest enough and the characters and I
[TS]
◼
►
I'd almost rather have seen hard to do
[TS]
◼
►
this especially if you're coming out
[TS]
◼
►
with sequential issues you know 22 pages
[TS]
◼
►
at a time really hard to do this but I
[TS]
◼
►
almost like to see think i was reading
[TS]
◼
►
the story of a guy who's burdened by the
[TS]
◼
►
his father's work for longer and really
[TS]
◼
►
feel like you know I've connected with
[TS]
◼
►
that guy before you pull the rug out
[TS]
◼
►
from under me and I felt like the rug
[TS]
◼
►
was never under me I i fell in the first
[TS]
◼
►
issue I did feel some of that connection
[TS]
◼
►
but i wonder if it was them using some
[TS]
◼
►
shorthand in the sense that it it starts
[TS]
◼
►
in a comic book convention which I'm
[TS]
◼
►
intimately familiar with comic books
[TS]
◼
►
entrants into one of those now and as a
[TS]
◼
►
past month this one yeah yeah
[TS]
◼
►
comic-con 2010 is the first comic book
[TS]
◼
►
convention that she went big
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well we go big or go home exactly
[TS]
◼
►
then I went home the fact that it starts
[TS]
◼
►
at a comic convention with a guy who's
[TS]
◼
►
been he is there to make money off of
[TS]
◼
►
not even something he did years ago but
[TS]
◼
►
something his father did and named after
[TS]
◼
►
years ago and named after him
[TS]
◼
►
mhm you know being kind of embittered by
[TS]
◼
►
it being you know that he's defined by
[TS]
◼
►
this character but the same time they're
[TS]
◼
►
exploiting at making money because he
[TS]
◼
►
has no other way to do it if you go to
[TS]
◼
►
any moderately sized comic convention
[TS]
◼
►
you'll see those people from the
[TS]
◼
►
seventies sci-fi TV shows i took a
[TS]
◼
►
picture of guilt girardin Erin gray
[TS]
◼
►
signing things culture our hair and
[TS]
◼
►
wearing a pair of shorts signing Buck
[TS]
◼
►
Rogers memorabilia on the first page
[TS]
◼
►
they have them sitting next to somebody
[TS]
◼
►
who's name is Jareth calendar and
[TS]
◼
►
calendar basically calls out the
[TS]
◼
►
creator's intense with always thought
[TS]
◼
►
your Christopher Robin and Tommy replies
[TS]
◼
►
back looks like you've stopped the
[TS]
◼
►
circle of your immediate family and it's
[TS]
◼
►
pretty obvious that it's meant to be a
[TS]
◼
►
slam on Family Circle and Bill and Jeff
[TS]
◼
►
quinoa I did I didn't see a an article
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere where I think my kerry said
[TS]
◼
►
that the model for this story was
[TS]
◼
►
Christopher Robin and that the idea that
[TS]
◼
►
a million wrote these wildly successful
[TS]
◼
►
winnie-the-pooh books with Christopher
[TS]
◼
►
Robin at the center and that was his son
[TS]
◼
►
and yeah but in his attempt to director
[TS]
◼
►
eclipsed the Sun to the point where all
[TS]
◼
►
the people wanted to talk about was oh
[TS]
◼
►
you're Christopher Robin from the books
[TS]
◼
►
and the answer is No
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I'm the one from the real world and
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's a really interesting idea and
[TS]
◼
►
you're right you know they spend a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of the first issue I guess maybe what
[TS]
◼
►
did it for me is that by dropping you
[TS]
◼
►
into the Tommy Taylor books immediately
[TS]
◼
►
I I like immediately I'm like all right
[TS]
◼
►
we're going to juxtapose the books with
[TS]
◼
►
the reality of this guy i don't know
[TS]
◼
►
it's an interesting story but I guess I
[TS]
◼
►
was more engaged on that the meta-level
[TS]
◼
►
then I was on the actual level i would
[TS]
◼
►
love to know if the villain pull
[TS]
◼
►
Minister supposed to be named after
[TS]
◼
►
Philip Pullman in any way
[TS]
◼
►
wow that's a nice reference to get all
[TS]
◼
►
these different things and in pullman is
[TS]
◼
►
is such a distinct fantasy writer and
[TS]
◼
►
many of his conventions are both i would
[TS]
◼
►
say what he did in the golden compass
[TS]
◼
►
so different from any fiction
[TS]
◼
►
conventions we're all good news will
[TS]
◼
►
around you BTW guys can save the
[TS]
◼
►
universe but a horrible personal cost to
[TS]
◼
►
you and it's exactly the opposite of the
[TS]
◼
►
way a lot of fiction works that were
[TS]
◼
►
somehow magically works everybody so
[TS]
◼
►
before we move on from talking about the
[TS]
◼
►
unwritten night I want to ask a similar
[TS]
◼
►
question here which is did you like it
[TS]
◼
►
and would you keep reading it
[TS]
◼
►
yes and yes wow that's like no I do have
[TS]
◼
►
elaborate theories that I do have some
[TS]
◼
►
trepidation and this may be more my
[TS]
◼
►
experiences as a longtime comic book
[TS]
◼
►
reader and less a reflection on this
[TS]
◼
►
book but unless they have a way to
[TS]
◼
►
resolve this and then find a way to
[TS]
◼
►
continue the underlying bedrock themes I
[TS]
◼
►
worry that this book will turn into
[TS]
◼
►
something else after about 50 issues
[TS]
◼
►
because you can really only drag out the
[TS]
◼
►
central mystery who are these people why
[TS]
◼
►
are they trying to shape reality where
[TS]
◼
►
did Wilson go once you once you answer
[TS]
◼
►
those questions you have to have
[TS]
◼
►
invented a new set of questions into the
[TS]
◼
►
first quest that's a lot of quests into
[TS]
◼
►
the first quest or you have to kind of
[TS]
◼
►
hit a reboot button and summary boots
[TS]
◼
►
are are are good and others
[TS]
◼
►
wait what about us yes that's true with
[TS]
◼
►
any and kind of comic series especially
[TS]
◼
►
or any long-running series we're at some
[TS]
◼
►
point you you either need to shut it
[TS]
◼
►
down or that's actually the things I
[TS]
◼
►
like best about salmon as they shut it
[TS]
◼
►
down after 75 issues there was a story
[TS]
◼
►
he told it he was done but vertigo is
[TS]
◼
►
actually pretty good as an imprint about
[TS]
◼
►
doing that with the exception of swamp
[TS]
◼
►
thing and help laser you allow stories
[TS]
◼
►
to sort of run their course and then end
[TS]
◼
►
yeah so and I think you're actually
[TS]
◼
►
seeing that in comics a lot more often
[TS]
◼
►
and x mac is ending with issue 50
[TS]
◼
►
planetary ended issue whatever 27-1
[TS]
◼
►
right only took like five years to do
[TS]
◼
►
know if he started planting like 1999 oh
[TS]
◼
►
my god it was fantastic we should talk
[TS]
◼
►
about planetary sometime that Alright
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that haven't realized some serious
[TS]
◼
►
you've got it would be a bit you're
[TS]
◼
►
skipping skipping ahead now because I'm
[TS]
◼
►
gonna ask you what you're reading now
[TS]
◼
►
and what should you read because that's
[TS]
◼
►
going to be one of the recurring themes
[TS]
◼
►
excellently named podcast whatever it's
[TS]
◼
►
named just i saya i was surprised that I
[TS]
◼
►
like this it's been a long time since
[TS]
◼
►
i've read a vertigo book for many years
[TS]
◼
►
and so I i did enjoy this and
[TS]
◼
►
I'm intrigued enough about some of the
[TS]
◼
►
mystery that will keep reading it I
[TS]
◼
►
think they set up a lot of questions the
[TS]
◼
►
way to sort of cliffhanger it ends on is
[TS]
◼
►
the flying cat it's quite painful that
[TS]
◼
►
they end on a cliffhanger and do the
[TS]
◼
►
thing that I like the least
[TS]
◼
►
although again intentionally frustrating
[TS]
◼
►
in comics which is you end on a
[TS]
◼
►
cliffhanger and then you do a standalone
[TS]
◼
►
issue that's not related to anything
[TS]
◼
►
with the company for gotta build that
[TS]
◼
►
tension guy finally it's here it so it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't answer any of those questions
[TS]
◼
►
and this is why trades i think of more
[TS]
◼
►
satisfying sometimes is because they're
[TS]
◼
►
published so far after flimsies that if
[TS]
◼
►
you really want to find out what
[TS]
◼
►
happened to you you can go and then do
[TS]
◼
►
so so does there's probably an entire
[TS]
◼
►
podcast here but just the short version
[TS]
◼
►
of trade paperback versus the little you
[TS]
◼
►
know flimsies as we as we seem to have
[TS]
◼
►
have started calling them you know where
[TS]
◼
►
do you where do you come down on on that
[TS]
◼
►
leaving digital aside for a minute just
[TS]
◼
►
the trade trades versus the flames I've
[TS]
◼
►
obviously I i attempted to reconnect to
[TS]
◼
►
the flimsy you know individual issues
[TS]
◼
►
and fail then went back to two trades
[TS]
◼
►
and hardcovers just because the
[TS]
◼
►
individual tracking and I was trained
[TS]
◼
►
not to throw them out or recycle them
[TS]
◼
►
which means you gotta save them away
[TS]
◼
►
unlike every other periodicals yet
[TS]
◼
►
higher garage is now taken over with my
[TS]
◼
►
flimsies collection which is why switch
[TS]
◼
►
to trade so you you switched and aren't
[TS]
◼
►
buying individual issues anymore
[TS]
◼
►
the only exception might be ex machina
[TS]
◼
►
because I've been following that since
[TS]
◼
►
issue 1 and you want to ride it to the
[TS]
◼
►
yeah because that's what I do with what
[TS]
◼
►
that's what i do y the last man or if
[TS]
◼
►
it's a limited brunch series that I
[TS]
◼
►
suspect won't make it into trade
[TS]
◼
►
all right i'll do that for example
[TS]
◼
►
vertigo had a series called the witching
[TS]
◼
►
that I enjoyed that you'll never see
[TS]
◼
►
internet was a tennis shoe run it didn't
[TS]
◼
►
do well at all and disappeared i'm glad
[TS]
◼
►
i have this because I can pull those out
[TS]
◼
►
there's one or two series i'll still buy
[TS]
◼
►
flimsies mainly just to support the
[TS]
◼
►
series because i don't think it's that
[TS]
◼
►
popular or big but then I had switch
[TS]
◼
►
entirely trades and now I'm kind of
[TS]
◼
►
dropping trades in favor of more omnibus
[TS]
◼
►
collections in the Attic offers as Biggs
[TS]
◼
►
hundred-dollar tire collection and
[TS]
◼
►
because now it you're reading a floppy
[TS]
◼
►
takes like two minutes and it sort of
[TS]
◼
►
very disposable but now even a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
trades there are five issues of these
[TS]
◼
►
two minutes floppies so in trade is like
[TS]
◼
►
15 minutes of reading a lot of times
[TS]
◼
►
which that's not enough for me anymore
[TS]
◼
►
it takes me longer to bagged and boarded
[TS]
◼
►
flames and it does to actually be
[TS]
◼
►
absolute collections tend to be 24 plus
[TS]
◼
►
issues and to me that's a good
[TS]
◼
►
experience and you're getting more
[TS]
◼
►
complete story it as a part of that
[TS]
◼
►
experience are you
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I have some in some things I picked
[TS]
◼
►
up and trade because i have made sure i
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to commit to them and then i end
[TS]
◼
►
up with them in trading I'm like I wish
[TS]
◼
►
I just like invincible actually you
[TS]
◼
►
bought me the first two traits of
[TS]
◼
►
invincible and they're great and I
[TS]
◼
►
actually wish that I had a big hard
[TS]
◼
►
cover on the buses of those and i may go
[TS]
◼
►
back and do that because i am that's
[TS]
◼
►
another topic for another show i suppose
[TS]
◼
►
but I love love love Robert Kirkman's
[TS]
◼
►
invincible to the point where i should
[TS]
◼
►
have you know just committed to the
[TS]
◼
►
hardcovers like i did with ultimate
[TS]
◼
►
spider-man right I just have a hard for
[TS]
◼
►
planetary i bought the I first absolute
[TS]
◼
►
collection and then I had to wait three
[TS]
◼
►
four years for the second look like a
[TS]
◼
►
little swing out yeah and to finish the
[TS]
◼
►
story but now I have to go back and
[TS]
◼
►
reread the first absolute so i can read
[TS]
◼
►
the whole thing at once but yeah that's
[TS]
◼
►
the problem with the bigger you get in
[TS]
◼
►
the collections the longer you have to
[TS]
◼
►
writing collections right even on the
[TS]
◼
►
when I was doing the Marvel heart cut
[TS]
◼
►
our soft covers of ultimate spider-man
[TS]
◼
►
and waiting for the hardcover you to its
[TS]
◼
►
to trade weights so it's like a year
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah so to a yearly hardcover the
[TS]
◼
►
drops on your desk and like all right
[TS]
◼
►
which is not that different from you
[TS]
◼
►
know that the Harry Potter series or any
[TS]
◼
►
other kind of a novel series where you
[TS]
◼
►
wait a year or two kids like the
[TS]
◼
►
difference between when television shows
[TS]
◼
►
get broadcast on the air for the first
[TS]
◼
►
time versus the dvds right there shows
[TS]
◼
►
we're back to the wire
[TS]
◼
►
well I actually watch the wire as it was
[TS]
◼
►
i'm watching about DVD and I actually
[TS]
◼
►
think that there's a substantial
[TS]
◼
►
difference between when you watch a show
[TS]
◼
►
and it airs every weekend have a week to
[TS]
◼
►
let it percolate your brain you think
[TS]
◼
►
about you invested his expectations into
[TS]
◼
►
it i just have to do that with a wire I
[TS]
◼
►
can't watch the wire like like now Andy
[TS]
◼
►
because now it can be but um okay here's
[TS]
◼
►
another example television what might be
[TS]
◼
►
one of my favorite junk series is the
[TS]
◼
►
tutors I just I just find that series
[TS]
◼
►
delightful it's hysterically funny
[TS]
◼
►
jonathan rhys-meyers place Henry the
[TS]
◼
►
hinge lunatic rock god the history has
[TS]
◼
►
been tied up and left in a closet
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere i think if i had watched an
[TS]
◼
►
episode by episode on showtime I would
[TS]
◼
►
have been very frustrated because Oh
[TS]
◼
►
they've dropped this storyline and oh
[TS]
◼
►
this person was on this episode there
[TS]
◼
►
and you never see them again i download
[TS]
◼
►
entire seasons from itunes and just run
[TS]
◼
►
them when I'm working on something or if
[TS]
◼
►
I feel like watching two or three in a
[TS]
◼
►
row and it's a much different experience
[TS]
◼
►
and I feel sometimes that reading
[TS]
◼
►
single-issue comics compared to reading
[TS]
◼
►
the entire story arc through trade it's
[TS]
◼
►
the same thing where you can be really
[TS]
◼
►
disappointed by single issue where you
[TS]
◼
►
can be really late to buy a single issue
[TS]
◼
►
but when you see it in context in trades
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's a it's a different experience
[TS]
◼
►
in a different reaction when watch men
[TS]
◼
►
came out i read watchmen as it was
[TS]
◼
►
coming out and and actually stopped
[TS]
◼
►
reading comics after the last issue
[TS]
◼
►
because I felt like I I all it is put it
[TS]
◼
►
made everything else pale incompatible
[TS]
◼
►
done it this will never happen again two
[TS]
◼
►
years but what that experience was
[TS]
◼
►
really you know you would read issue 1
[TS]
◼
►
and then a month later you would read
[TS]
◼
►
issue 1 an issue 2 and then a month
[TS]
◼
►
later you would read one two and three
[TS]
◼
►
and then you had enough time to read the
[TS]
◼
►
text in the back where there were these
[TS]
◼
►
detailed excerpts that would take you
[TS]
◼
►
longer to read the comic just these
[TS]
◼
►
three or four text pages and then by the
[TS]
◼
►
end you know there were two months
[TS]
◼
►
between issue 11 an issue 12 it had been
[TS]
◼
►
monthly up till that boy that was
[TS]
◼
►
painful and delayed a month and and what
[TS]
◼
►
a cliffhanger and again you know it then
[TS]
◼
►
it's read 1 through 11 so that when 12
[TS]
◼
►
hits and that's a very different
[TS]
◼
►
experience to have all that time to
[TS]
◼
►
ponder vs vs not i think that's why I
[TS]
◼
►
was so disappointed with how J michael
[TS]
◼
►
Straczynski is rising stars ended its
[TS]
◼
►
because i had to wait a billion years
[TS]
◼
►
for for the final issue and then once it
[TS]
◼
►
was done I was this is at so i waited
[TS]
◼
►
for this I felt that way about the Star
[TS]
◼
►
Wars trilogy the second one
[TS]
◼
►
oh my god that's right i want to have my
[TS]
◼
►
life for three more star wars movies and
[TS]
◼
►
this is what I get haha yeah yeah you're
[TS]
◼
►
right i mean rising stars what I think
[TS]
◼
►
if you'd read all all of those as I'm
[TS]
◼
►
unit and is angry my heart away with
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah cuz i read i read vol.3 in
[TS]
◼
►
after reading vol.12 much earlier in
[TS]
◼
►
trade paperback I I like vol.3 came out
[TS]
◼
►
my reaction was ok i see what he was
[TS]
◼
►
doing there I wasn't quite as enraged as
[TS]
◼
►
think that it's about expectations about
[TS]
◼
►
waiting and he held up and if it's build
[TS]
◼
►
up for nothing then I did feel in the
[TS]
◼
►
unwritten that the issues were pretty
[TS]
◼
►
dense yes yes yes going like it's only
[TS]
◼
►
22 pages I know which i haven't had that
[TS]
◼
►
experience in a comic in a long time
[TS]
◼
►
since they're so decompressed now and if
[TS]
◼
►
you read them digitally it's just like a
[TS]
◼
►
conversation on the previous podcast
[TS]
◼
►
about reading in the end an e-reader you
[TS]
◼
►
don't even know how far into it you are
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and and you realize what this is
[TS]
◼
►
page 15 you know you tap and see that
[TS]
◼
►
it's page fifteen to twenty i almost
[TS]
◼
►
think that our meeting this week's
[TS]
◼
►
reading this comic monthly would work
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but it's so it's a good so you have
[TS]
◼
►
so much to chillin right and you have a
[TS]
◼
►
good a good enough experience in reading
[TS]
◼
►
the single issue that you don't feel
[TS]
◼
►
like you're wasting your money or that
[TS]
◼
►
you need the second one right away your
[TS]
◼
►
own you're not getting necessarily a
[TS]
◼
►
complete story but you're getting enough
[TS]
◼
►
of a story that satisfied she wanted
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it feels is actually really
[TS]
◼
►
satisfying an issue by issue basis
[TS]
◼
►
because even after you finish the story
[TS]
◼
►
you go back and you take a look at the
[TS]
◼
►
side panel artwork and the themes that
[TS]
◼
►
they've introduced and you get what
[TS]
◼
►
they're doing visually on top of
[TS]
◼
►
narrative Lee it's it's it's delightful
[TS]
◼
►
that by ok let's move on to what are you
[TS]
◼
►
reading right now i thought i would ask
[TS]
◼
►
each of you you don't have to go into a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of detail if you don't want to but
[TS]
◼
►
even in the realm of comics you know
[TS]
◼
►
what's got your attention these days
[TS]
◼
►
well the I don't need to stump you
[TS]
◼
►
rather than going on written it's what
[TS]
◼
►
we've been reading yet on the trade side
[TS]
◼
►
everything i'm getting his old material
[TS]
◼
►
and really enjoy that out Sandman
[TS]
◼
►
mystery theater which is the
[TS]
◼
►
nineteen-thirties New York City Sandman
[TS]
◼
►
in the gas mask pulp stories written by
[TS]
◼
►
matt wagner mostly illustrated by guy
[TS]
◼
►
davis beautiful work there we could do a
[TS]
◼
►
podcast about that and maybe we will
[TS]
◼
►
send a series of trades that i've been
[TS]
◼
►
reading issue wise i enjoy agents of
[TS]
◼
►
atlas from marvel comics which is a
[TS]
◼
►
crazy sort of the brat pack of superhero
[TS]
◼
►
books it's it's taken from a what-if
[TS]
◼
►
story from like for the rat past six not
[TS]
◼
►
Brad pack the red right
[TS]
◼
►
pat was not it was gonna be so washy
[TS]
◼
►
right mom and dad back ere I thanks the
[TS]
◼
►
best friend Sammy Andy and itself is
[TS]
◼
►
essentially this a talking gorilla Man U
[TS]
◼
►
Iranian spaceman a Venus goddess a
[TS]
◼
►
murderer woman and a nineteen fifties
[TS]
◼
►
FBI agent jimmy wu yep guys forming a
[TS]
◼
►
team it's pretty fantastic written by
[TS]
◼
►
Jeff Parker yeah really good i read the
[TS]
◼
►
miniseries of that on your
[TS]
◼
►
recommendation and really really good
[TS]
◼
►
and funny and and is you know it's a
[TS]
◼
►
actually an interesting because that is
[TS]
◼
►
one of those rare cases where you've got
[TS]
◼
►
a publisher owned scenario that that
[TS]
◼
►
feels a lot more like it was a
[TS]
◼
►
creator-owned book because there's so
[TS]
◼
►
much creativity that goes into the
[TS]
◼
►
building of that from from some old
[TS]
◼
►
characters that would they found laying
[TS]
◼
►
around in the Marvel and intellectual
[TS]
◼
►
property in right yeah characters that
[TS]
◼
►
were in like an eight-page backup story
[TS]
◼
►
in a from a comic in the sixties ya and
[TS]
◼
►
bring them into the modern-day quite
[TS]
◼
►
literally bring them into the modern day
[TS]
◼
►
followed him out and put them down in
[TS]
◼
►
today and put them in charge of a little
[TS]
◼
►
organization but syndicate yeah
[TS]
◼
►
exit guys in charge of criminal criminal
[TS]
◼
►
syndicate understand Francisco yes nice
[TS]
◼
►
could be right here right now I love
[TS]
◼
►
reading comics in San Francisco just for
[TS]
◼
►
that reason because i love seeing how
[TS]
◼
►
what landmarks they get or what ones
[TS]
◼
►
they create I keep meaning to read those
[TS]
◼
►
x-men issues we have moved to San I know
[TS]
◼
►
yes in the Tana lived in San Francisco
[TS]
◼
►
for a while so it was someone when she
[TS]
◼
►
was doing that because in seven soldiers
[TS]
◼
►
they explicitly referenced living in San
[TS]
◼
►
Francisco attending a superhero support
[TS]
◼
►
group in the east bay i was just telling
[TS]
◼
►
you about seven soldiers yeah we should
[TS]
◼
►
I've got all those if you want to bart
[TS]
◼
►
well you'll download the many ways going
[TS]
◼
►
to have got no no no I can't believe I
[TS]
◼
►
could borrow all the flames on a
[TS]
◼
►
wonderful NZ now i'm all the way if I
[TS]
◼
►
got to get back to you and a hardcover
[TS]
◼
►
so so what about you and Lisa what are
[TS]
◼
►
you reading right now
[TS]
◼
►
scalped real mention scale really love
[TS]
◼
►
scalped think Jason Aaron is a fantastic
[TS]
◼
►
writer it shows you characters that you
[TS]
◼
►
don't see a lot of the other stories
[TS]
◼
►
period so I'm enjoy an implicit snore
[TS]
◼
►
and I have a soft spot for nor I'm
[TS]
◼
►
catching up on invincible I just got the
[TS]
◼
►
last two trades i am thinking about
[TS]
◼
►
revisiting walking dead because
[TS]
◼
►
love walking dead i read through the
[TS]
◼
►
series run on my brother is an avid
[TS]
◼
►
collector and so I read through the
[TS]
◼
►
series run when I was visiting him last
[TS]
◼
►
Thanksgiving and I had horrible
[TS]
◼
►
nightmares for like three days straight
[TS]
◼
►
after finishing a cute little do that
[TS]
◼
►
for and so I there's part of me that's
[TS]
◼
►
like I don't want to do it again and
[TS]
◼
►
there's part of me that really wants to
[TS]
◼
►
go back and see what I missed when I was
[TS]
◼
►
busy cringing my way through the first
[TS]
◼
►
time because when i was really the first
[TS]
◼
►
time I just kept flipping the page to
[TS]
◼
►
see what happened and I would be like oh
[TS]
◼
►
this is horrible oh my god
[TS]
◼
►
but you like writing specifically
[TS]
◼
►
thinking obviously the first to the
[TS]
◼
►
first two hard covers are in my amazon I
[TS]
◼
►
i have read it and now the works too
[TS]
◼
►
hard covers are in my amazon shopping
[TS]
◼
►
cart i read both in the big hardcovers
[TS]
◼
►
so I sort of read walking dead every two
[TS]
◼
►
years when the new big hardcover comes
[TS]
◼
►
out but now we won't have to we can
[TS]
◼
►
watch it on AMC starting in november
[TS]
◼
►
kind of curious that's another reason I
[TS]
◼
►
want to reduce I want to be grounded and
[TS]
◼
►
as we're in the Canon before it comes
[TS]
◼
►
out on TV so i can be all pedantic and
[TS]
◼
►
picking not like it at all and i am
[TS]
◼
►
waiting for is turning over in his grave
[TS]
◼
►
right now I'm saying let me out
[TS]
◼
►
I'm Marvel from way back but i did get
[TS]
◼
►
into Gail Simone's running birds of prey
[TS]
◼
►
when she was that doing that in DC and
[TS]
◼
►
they recently revived the title and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
actually waiting for the trade to come
[TS]
◼
►
the first revived trade to come out a
[TS]
◼
►
few months when that happens on your
[TS]
◼
►
no it's galley brought it back at is
[TS]
◼
►
that just the recent recent reboot
[TS]
◼
►
reboot of like jun 2010 yeah that now
[TS]
◼
►
has the guys in it to the yeah yeah
[TS]
◼
►
yeahs be a jerk which i thought would
[TS]
◼
►
make an interesting
[TS]
◼
►
yeah salary could have a jerk in having
[TS]
◼
►
sure well DC's always been really good
[TS]
◼
►
about that i mean they had garden and
[TS]
◼
►
the Green Lantern Corps booster gold
[TS]
◼
►
goes back mr. gold yeah i mean they've
[TS]
◼
►
always got somebody where you're just
[TS]
◼
►
like okay and and and Jason what are you
[TS]
◼
►
reading when I when I actually am
[TS]
◼
►
reading right now is I just finished
[TS]
◼
►
scott pilgrim vol 1 which did with a
[TS]
◼
►
movie coming out and I thought well okay
[TS]
◼
►
they would invest millions of dollars in
[TS]
◼
►
making a movie maybe I should read the
[TS]
◼
►
comic and so I i didn't i'm not sure i
[TS]
◼
►
liked it quite frankly here i'm going to
[TS]
◼
►
read it again i'm not a big fan of the
[TS]
◼
►
cart super cartoony black-and-white
[TS]
◼
►
comic genre and that's what that is and
[TS]
◼
►
and i would say that this story for you
[TS]
◼
►
that's not you know being married
[TS]
◼
►
with children Ryan sure it's making two
[TS]
◼
►
different i can remember around being
[TS]
◼
►
married although i can't remember you
[TS]
◼
►
know my gay roommate or anything like
[TS]
◼
►
that but it won't turn out
[TS]
◼
►
it is a you know I role model that's a
[TS]
◼
►
young adult you know but but it is it is
[TS]
◼
►
a different kind of vibe and it's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting and yeah it's probably not
[TS]
◼
►
for me but I curiosity ever read The
[TS]
◼
►
Runaways the Marvel well because that's
[TS]
◼
►
also again that's breaking up on right
[TS]
◼
►
Frank avon International Union and I was
[TS]
◼
►
gonna ask what your reaction to that was
[TS]
◼
►
when you read that i really like the
[TS]
◼
►
runaways actually am i I'm i enjoyed
[TS]
◼
►
both both volumes of the runaways
[TS]
◼
►
I i like that like the premise you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's a it's a lot of players are
[TS]
◼
►
evil like these premises keep it
[TS]
◼
►
floating around is invincible the whole
[TS]
◼
►
ideas is dat superman except it turns
[TS]
◼
►
out that he's evil and he goes away and
[TS]
◼
►
i have been reading your redeemable by
[TS]
◼
►
Mark weight which is about student and
[TS]
◼
►
going evil and killing everybody I want
[TS]
◼
►
to get into that she's very good very
[TS]
◼
►
the The Runaways or bryan cave on just
[TS]
◼
►
in general his stories are always he's
[TS]
◼
►
got such great concepts that you can sum
[TS]
◼
►
up in the one sentence yeah kids find
[TS]
◼
►
out their parents are evil they run away
[TS]
◼
►
or mayor gets infected with the alien
[TS]
◼
►
technology right in New York City runs
[TS]
◼
►
new right all the best-looking guy with
[TS]
◼
►
a monkey yeah exactly just great
[TS]
◼
►
concepts of the runways I felt started
[TS]
◼
►
off really strong and then after reboot
[TS]
◼
►
after reboot can be entered out a bit as
[TS]
◼
►
much as a joss whedon fans i am I
[TS]
◼
►
actually felt like they made a mistake
[TS]
◼
►
by trying to keep it as an ongoing and
[TS]
◼
►
not say you know again we've done 12
[TS]
◼
►
issues in the story is over and we might
[TS]
◼
►
do another volume at some other point
[TS]
◼
►
and instead sort of said let's make it
[TS]
◼
►
like any other Marvel comic and just
[TS]
◼
►
keep on producing those issues take a
[TS]
◼
►
page from british television limited-run
[TS]
◼
►
yeah just make the run and then come
[TS]
◼
►
back if you want to come back with
[TS]
◼
►
another story of something to marvel I
[TS]
◼
►
think did fairly well with the ultimate
[TS]
◼
►
swear they did volume on its volume to
[TS]
◼
►
really hone and if I at least put itself
[TS]
◼
►
contains the blast radius of jeph loeb
[TS]
◼
►
writing ultimate vol.3 is you can or
[TS]
◼
►
because you just don't read it and
[TS]
◼
►
they're okay we should do a pot entire
[TS]
◼
►
podcast and Ultimate Universe sometimes
[TS]
◼
►
i would love I would have strong
[TS]
◼
►
opinions about that see the good thing
[TS]
◼
►
about this starting this podcast is that
[TS]
◼
►
we seem to emerge from the episodes with
[TS]
◼
►
more concepts for future episodes
[TS]
◼
►
not entered with righteous onto the
[TS]
◼
►
comic book club because I'm never gonna
[TS]
◼
►
go to a regular book club I don't want
[TS]
◼
►
to read Eat Pray Love and talk about it
[TS]
◼
►
out and talk about combat is that is one
[TS]
◼
►
yes that is why somebody somebody
[TS]
◼
►
suggested on Twitter today that a zombie
[TS]
◼
►
version of Eat Pray Love would be great
[TS]
◼
►
grimsby brains love right
[TS]
◼
►
um I'm sure someone is working on that
[TS]
◼
►
right now is I'm sure Neal game and
[TS]
◼
►
maybe working on that in fact that you
[TS]
◼
►
have the marble on the universe that
[TS]
◼
►
went on so my question not just for me
[TS]
◼
►
but for for all of us to share is a is a
[TS]
◼
►
what should I read which should be
[TS]
◼
►
reading do you have a suggestion for
[TS]
◼
►
something that we should read next or if
[TS]
◼
►
you want based on if you like if you if
[TS]
◼
►
you like let's read on written or just
[TS]
◼
►
well you could you can do whatever you
[TS]
◼
►
like there are no rules here but I'm
[TS]
◼
►
just you know him but what should we be
[TS]
◼
►
what we should be reading in the future
[TS]
◼
►
whether this is not a guarantee that
[TS]
◼
►
we'll talk about it here but the wiimote
[TS]
◼
►
books i think we should talk about the
[TS]
◼
►
future are the one out there x makina I
[TS]
◼
►
alright next Mac michael bloomberg gets
[TS]
◼
►
magical powers my lord of its pretty
[TS]
◼
►
much it you know because he's
[TS]
◼
►
conservative i'm going to lobby for
[TS]
◼
►
preacher if you've never read it
[TS]
◼
►
mm not having an affair well that could
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well I yeah I i started reading it
[TS]
◼
►
back when it first then I tried the
[TS]
◼
►
trades every now and then yeah I've
[TS]
◼
►
never successfully been able to finish
[TS]
◼
►
it could be my yeah yeah well we can get
[TS]
◼
►
into a few my casa very exciting the
[TS]
◼
►
oh let me out various planetary for
[TS]
◼
►
geologists of the unknown you know
[TS]
◼
►
because that also gives us an
[TS]
◼
►
opportunity to talk about that
[TS]
◼
►
university created which ties into the
[TS]
◼
►
authority and storm watch as well notice
[TS]
◼
►
right yeah i recently read the authority
[TS]
◼
►
and I thought that was actually pretty
[TS]
◼
►
pretty good haha
[TS]
◼
►
have you heard of the 20th century yeah
[TS]
◼
►
consideration it's really good they
[TS]
◼
►
rebooted a few times it's gotten really
[TS]
◼
►
if you just read the market a large
[TS]
◼
►
stuff or the warren ellis right yeah
[TS]
◼
►
just those two are awesome in all it's
[TS]
◼
►
actually more impressive if you consider
[TS]
◼
►
when it was written in which was all
[TS]
◼
►
late nineties there's actually as
[TS]
◼
►
everything is like that authority got
[TS]
◼
►
under the skin of some writer so badly
[TS]
◼
►
just Superman issue devoted to debunking
[TS]
◼
►
it which is like I'm not gay
[TS]
◼
►
fuck you know this basically it was that
[TS]
◼
►
because you know one of the bedrock
[TS]
◼
►
premises of the authorities look we're
[TS]
◼
►
gonna we're gonna take responsibility
[TS]
◼
►
and do things that you people will shy
[TS]
◼
►
away from doing and there is an
[TS]
◼
►
authority like cabal that runs while the
[TS]
◼
►
DC Universe for a couple of episodes and
[TS]
◼
►
Superman take some medicine and it was
[TS]
◼
►
no way we have an obligation to high
[TS]
◼
►
standards not that rebooted the rebooted
[TS]
◼
►
Justice League Justice William unlimited
[TS]
◼
►
or grin explores and where the the
[TS]
◼
►
aliens come from another planet and they
[TS]
◼
►
basically say we're superheroes and
[TS]
◼
►
we're going to take over and make the
[TS]
◼
►
world a better place in the JLA is like
[TS]
◼
►
there's like a Justice League extreme or
[TS]
◼
►
justice league dark I can't remember the
[TS]
◼
►
name of the title i have it i'll have to
[TS]
◼
►
check my archive Scott that sounds so
[TS]
◼
►
pretentious have to check but yes it had
[TS]
◼
►
like the Ark of Noah had flashlights to
[TS]
◼
►
different rooms like a black uniform who
[TS]
◼
►
were working with this team and then the
[TS]
◼
►
regular uniform have the regular Justice
[TS]
◼
►
League and it was just insane i know i
[TS]
◼
►
can t really good i don't think i can
[TS]
◼
►
even give you guys any recommendations
[TS]
◼
►
for something you should read that you
[TS]
◼
►
haven't already read or that you have
[TS]
◼
►
been recommended to me because I could
[TS]
◼
►
say that the authority and I know that
[TS]
◼
►
you recommended that Jamie and agreed
[TS]
◼
►
Tom strong or top 10
[TS]
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have you got a result by snot naga lat
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long long time there's a nice big on the
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bus have thought yeah there's heat i
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ended up i had to have surgery at ucsf
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last year and they delayed it by a
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couple of hours and somebody had left
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his omnibus in the waiting room and I've
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read the entire thing while waiting for
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it and good way to pass the time it was
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a great way to pass the time and because
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MacLeod is is the guy who wrote how did
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you know understand comics exactly it
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was fascinating to see what he was
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putting into practice in his own book as
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well so i think i just to be obscure
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although you probably have read this i'm
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going to say what you should read is
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micronauts 1 through 12 by Bill man
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alone Michael golden from the late
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seventies the most delightful example of
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how you can take a star wars ripoff
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based on a toy and make it something
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that actually is among my favorite
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things in the entire medium so he might
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that's my hand on my pile to read
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yeah it is it isn't available in the
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trade what I have two morrow 10 because
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the rights have been completely messed
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up it's available
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it's available on on computers & ipad
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that's k & and I actually i have these
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but the Marvel reprinted a fine issue on
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high-quality paper recolored watercolor
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recolor of the first 12 issues a special
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edition and I have that
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actually on my bookshelf and I will
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bring it in and Lexi because of
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licensing issues there currently is no
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legitimate way to buy a collection right
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of the Micronauts right and in fact that
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is why i downloaded i'm also that's why
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i downloaded the migrants bit torn i
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have all the flimsy issues but quite
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frankly they're in a box under a box
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under the rocks and micro i'm reading
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rom right last night also
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that's my girl that's built low and sal
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buscema didn't want to know those were
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those great to kind of toy tions that I
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think far surpass her and outlived their
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toy antecedence yeah there's a rom was
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75 issues and a bunch of annuals and
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people still talk about Rob yeah message
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board and it's not available because of
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the rice and always Harker brothers i
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think is that one and then the Abrams
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Gentile entertainment that have tried to
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relicense micronauts a million times and
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Marvel actually did to issues of microns
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reboot before the writer and artist
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discovered that the talks have broken
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down and that they weren't able to
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publish them and so yeah but anyway that
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first run of the the first 12 issues
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that's a huge fun and you can see the
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star wars influences and you can see
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them trying to find ways to get these
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toys in but not happen be toys just and
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as a seven-year-old basically right that
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was the thing that was my know if we
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don't like to star wars comic books for
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those are classic seventies Marvel style
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storing yeah which and Michael golden
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doesn't get enough credit Jim medow
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detection for Marvel from the seventies
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were all the rage that right yeah grew
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up reading it in the late 70s early
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nineties half icy hot but I don't didn't
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happen for me because watchman was
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published and then I went away right
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then you missed it you missed the entire
[TS]
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rob liefeld era i had a friend who
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should be a better man I mean I said
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let's not make our own guy he's really
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popular and I looked at the Todd
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McFarlane's spider-man I was like yes so
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glad i'm not buying comics anymore right
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having lived through the nineties comics
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but there was so many at three years
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where I would go to the comic store and
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every wednesday and get walk out with
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nothing very sad it was a depressing
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dark time and then I picked up on a whim
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in this comic store in in boerum hill in
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Brooklyn a chris where acne novelty
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library number three and that just
[TS]
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opened the entire world of like indie
[TS]
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me would sort of saved the 1980 comics
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►
used to be lame i'm with it again yeah
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with people who can do make sure about
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this and and spend for another time that
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it used to be a used to be lame I mean
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►
ever i bought John sable freelance by my
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►
grill and it was pretty good
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►
red star was jim Starlin owned it and
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►
that was pretty cool but that was not
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►
and you know there was your health
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►
quests and you're you know you you make
[TS]
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►
fun of the elf question in HealthQuest
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►
got me through 10th grade well I believe
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►
it you know I by tenth grade English
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class was so boring that my friends I
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►
would pass around our issues of health
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►
quest and and go back to it and it it's
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►
tyrone we bad i'll admit that i'll be
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►
it's like don bluth put to paper home
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►
and get sauced Erica long way
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yeah and it actually you know I have a
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nice dream well yeah at the time you
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know what you would you would never get
[TS]
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►
any an indie comic like invincible which
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►
is essentially a marvel comic except in
[TS]
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►
its own universe and that's so great
[TS]
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►
because it's freed from all of that
[TS]
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►
stuff but it's still that kind of tone
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which I grew up with and I love you so
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►
but before we go I will say following on
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my recommendation of micro not something
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►
that you can get when you talk about us
[TS]
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being children of the seventies of
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comics so are many of the creators out
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►
there now which is why you start to see
[TS]
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►
those echoes and I i have the hardcover
[TS]
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►
of Planet Hulk which is by a guy named
[TS]
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►
Greg Pak planet hulk is so rife with
[TS]
◼
►
references and ama jizz to the
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►
Micronauts especially those first 12
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◼
►
issues that when i first read it I I i
[TS]
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►
was so excited I was like pacing around
[TS]
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►
my house because it's like oh my god
[TS]
◼
►
somebody else remembers the microphones
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►
and they're gonna come and he's inviting
[TS]
◼
►
residents and it's hilarious good it's
[TS]
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►
it's true every night and every actual
[TS]
◼
►
characters that are that are are clearly
[TS]
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►
analogues of itself my that would be my
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◼
►
secondary recommendation that is
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►
available widely and is a nice
[TS]
◼
►
self-contained story and I didn't really
[TS]
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►
related to the rest of the Hulk mythos
[TS]
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►
it's just kind of a what if there was a
[TS]
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►
big strong guy dropped down on the
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►
planet and then things happen all right
[TS]
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►
well then I guess until next time i'd
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like to thank jason reitman thank you
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►
and.and please miser thank you for
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►
having me I'm Jason snow please join us
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►
knows what the topic will be but we hope
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for more information about this podcast
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