The Incomparable

2: A Feeling of Vertigo

 

  interoperable Titus number two [TS]

  august 2010 [TS]

  so one of the premises of doing comics [TS]

  on this podcast is not to talk about the [TS]

  minutiae of the continuity happening [TS]

  with single issues being released this [TS]

  week in the comic book stores and to [TS]

  have to take it back level talk about [TS]

  things on the level of stuff that's [TS]

  largely available and trade paperback or [TS]

  hardcover so you can get in your comic [TS]

  store or your local bookstore or on [TS]

  amazon or a readers as you to both have [TS]

  done yes we have iPads here right with [TS]

  our topic here so one of us did it [TS]

  legally and the what other one [TS]

  maybe not as much right yeah it's a [TS]

  shame well i think that that you stole [TS]

  that book [TS]

  Lisa anyone happy i'm jason l and i am [TS]

  here with just to make it extra [TS]

  confusing jason reitman hello and Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser hi there and we're here to [TS]

  talk comics it's funny that I'm in the [TS]

  room with people who probably do visit [TS]

  comic stores regularly i am a fraud and [TS]

  and do not i am a trade paperback kind [TS]

  of person or a digital download kind of [TS]

  person but i like the idea of doing a [TS]

  comic book club and and picking comic [TS]

  that is available readily in bookstores [TS]

  and then talking about animal i'm sure [TS]

  go off on some tangent our topic this [TS]

  week is the unwritten which is from [TS]

  vertigo by mike perry and peanut grown i [TS]

  carry and Peter grass [TS]

  mhm this was lisa selection in the comic [TS]

  book club i believe yes very good [TS]

  selection [TS]

  thank you Mike carries name sounds [TS]

  vaguely familiar but I know nothing [TS]

  about this comic and went into it with [TS]

  no expectations whatsoever beyond the [TS]

  sort of one sentence line that you used [TS]

  to describe it [TS]

  lisa said you want to explain to people [TS]

  what what this story is about sure i'll [TS]

  start with my kerry and Peter groans [TS]

  both of whom have been in the vertigo [TS]

  stable for quite a while they worked [TS]

  together previously on Lucifer series of [TS]

  comic books [TS]

  Lucifer series was a spinoff from the [TS]

  Sandman books so these guys have the [TS]

  lineage that goes back to like the [TS]

  nineties to be getting vertigo [TS]

  yeah exactly so and vertigo is ready [TS]

  Amir and yeah [TS]

  and is that a creator-owned or is that a [TS]

  that's DC own which is why the Sandman [TS]

  was in there buddy it's it's so it's [TS]

  their adult line is that the best way to [TS]

  describe it over there almost every [TS]

  trader fiction they're not in tights and [TS]

  flights line for lack of a better word [TS]

  their stories tend to focus on the [TS]

  supernatural or on Norrish elements or [TS]

  on narratives that are not necessarily [TS]

  something and find in mainstream [TS]

  publishers like DC Marvel image to get [TS]

  examples of their current line the book [TS]

  Northlanders the author of whom eludes [TS]

  me but is basically writing stories [TS]

  about Vikings and another is you guys an [TS]

  alternate universe somewhere Viking [TS]

  comments like a mainstream and [TS]

  superheroes are like insanely readers [TS]

  can watch me that will come up higher [TS]

  and water rights but you know that [TS]

  there's get by kings are big there yeah [TS]

  and for is the only crossover hero there [TS]

  yeah but another one of Vertigo's the [TS]

  more critically beloved at the moment [TS]

  scalped which is a book about Native [TS]

  American FBI agent who has to go work [TS]

  undercover on the deeply corrupt [TS]

  reservation on which he was raised [TS]

  so again on titan on flight for a while [TS]

  they were really into face supernatural [TS]

  stuff and they've moved away from that [TS]

  thank God but the unwritten actions [TS]

  right back into it more or less because [TS]

  the entire book is about the power of [TS]

  stories to shape people's perceptions of [TS]

  reality or even to create reality [TS]

  depending on who has power over the [TS]

  story and what kind of authority the [TS]

  audience gives them that was I thought [TS]

  the theme of this whole first book [TS]

  pointing out that Tommy Taylor that you [TS]

  know hate stories can be truth truth can [TS]

  be sorry so the concept here is that [TS]

  this is guy named Tommy Taylor Thomas [TS]

  Taylor and his father was a novelist and [TS]

  he wrote a series of books that are [TS]

  suspiciously similar to harry potter [TS]

  books they are impacting to the point [TS]

  where it's actually hilarious because [TS]

  they're there's instead of having a [TS]

  lightning scar on his forehead he's got [TS]

  a tattoo on the back of his hand the [TS]

  writing style is uncannily rolling like [TS]

  with the adverbial explosions right and [TS]

  harry potter was actually sort of [TS]

  similar to the books of magic [TS]

  Tim Hunter would you also a vertigo [TS]

  title interested in your gross worked on [TS]

  the Tim Hunter books of magic all the [TS]

  way through the run of the series so [TS]

  it's all kind of come back around yeah [TS]

  there's a lot of self-referential things [TS]

  how many even mentioned the the books of [TS]

  magic in the first issue of the [TS]

  unwritten [TS]

  when they're talking about harry potter [TS]

  and the similarities of all three of [TS]

  them i'm amused by the fact that it's [TS]

  it's tommy taylor and his two sidekicks [TS]

  said the girl and the boy and it's it's [TS]

  a very round remaining kind of thing and [TS]

  then one of the issues opens amusingly [TS]

  there's a writer's retreat at the house [TS]

  where it's not really a fan and and one [TS]

  of the writers has written this [TS]

  fanfiction we're essentially all these [TS]

  lovable kid characters disemboweled and [TS]

  and so at you you think you're watching [TS]

  another example from the book including [TS]

  the pros passages and everything in it [TS]

  and it turns out that it's this horrible [TS]

  kind of what if we killed them all kind [TS]

  of thing which which place with yet [TS]

  another theme of this comic which is [TS]

  it's all about creation and and [TS]

  creativity and creation of fictional [TS]

  ideas and how in the in the premise of [TS]

  the comic they clash with reality [TS]

  because this is Tom Taylor isn't Tommy [TS]

  Taylor but everybody assumes he is and [TS]

  then there's this spin on it which is [TS]

  that you start to wonder if perhaps he [TS]

  is and that this might have been based [TS]

  or unreality or the book created the [TS]

  reality more created him or it's [TS]

  fascinating and with the only the first [TS]

  trade which is five issues there's no [TS]

  answer and if you'd read the second [TS]

  trailer I guess you've got an answer but [TS]

  I haven't the second trade can not only [TS]

  this wednesday so our time we should [TS]

  vary time yeah not available digitally [TS]

  yes you're downloading something that's [TS]

  pirated because it's almost like a [TS]

  detective story in that you have the [TS]

  first four episodes which introduced you [TS]

  to Tommy and the dilemma and the themes [TS]

  that will reverberate throughout the [TS]

  entire series and then you've got the [TS]

  story of record kipling and his [TS]

  encounter with the same people and how [TS]

  it turned out for him in that last one [TS]

  with Kipling it kind of restated the [TS]

  themes but not much more obvious in case [TS]

  you didn't get it from the first four [TS]

  issues [TS]

  here's what we're really talking about [TS]

  it was like a fill-in issue because it's [TS]

  a standalone thing but yet it was also [TS]

  that lets minded back now that you've [TS]

  been dropped in the middle of the story [TS]

  and wanted back and show you that this [TS]

  has been going on for some time because [TS]

  even read kipling and Mark Twain once [TS]

  wrote by these demonic evil strange [TS]

  people who get it from this power felt [TS]

  very classic vertigo in that way and [TS]

  very much to like those earlier stories [TS]

  in The Sandman and things where every [TS]

  now and then there would be an issue or [TS]

  a chapter that sort of stepped back from [TS]

  the ongoing narrative [TS]

  kind of reiterate themes of the [TS]

  narrative because they worked with [TS]

  Shakespeare into the original Sandman [TS]

  series as one of the fictional people [TS]

  what I was going to say is one of the [TS]

  things I found interesting was how you [TS]

  had the British writer who made his deal [TS]

  with the devil is that were and the [TS]

  American writer who saw right through it [TS]

  shortly before the sinister overload [TS]

  stable you know America's what's going [TS]

  on and I was actually wondering if this [TS]

  was kind of these American writers way [TS]

  of thumbing their nose at vertigo or [TS]

  thumbing their nose that their forebears [TS]

  because vertigo had that long tradition [TS]

  of they've got a lot of British writers [TS]

  in their stable and these British [TS]

  writers have been great about plundering [TS]

  classic literature classic comics and [TS]

  these are American writers saying you [TS]

  know what we can do the same thing but [TS]

  we're gonna do it on our terms and we [TS]

  would like to take you along for the [TS]

  ride and see how it turns out my carries [TS]

  American it was I just assumed he was [TS]

  british she's working for vertigo now [TS]

  actually i just read his bio this [TS]

  morning and I believe he and Peter [TS]

  grocer both American one of them was [TS]

  from response and I think so [TS]

  which is never know game in this now [TS]

  though you didn't Minnesota high kick [TS]

  some horrible and Midwestern a British [TS]

  pipeline back and forth where they just [TS]

  keep importing this right Ellen full but [TS]

  i think i've had made notes early on in [TS]

  the series how my carrier was born in [TS]

  Liverpool England there goes my re or [TS]

  just read exercises vertical lives in [TS]

  London yeah is all about those on there [TS]

  goes my theory because I honestly [TS]

  thought they're making a statement about [TS]

  the way Americans tend to see their [TS]

  stories as opposed to the British [TS]

  tradition of of storytelling legend [TS]

  where when you think about the British [TS]

  have this tradition of King Arthur that [TS]

  goes back thousands of years and has [TS]

  been polished and and modified through [TS]

  different historic cycles it certainly [TS]

  is fascinating because this story set in [TS]

  London initially and then and then we [TS]

  moved to the mainland Europe bi and the [TS]

  characters are and references are [TS]

  largely for british authors and then so [TS]

  in this fifth issue the the last part of [TS]

  the trade paperback vol.1 when Mark [TS]

  Twain appears and there's this you know [TS]

  seen in the US where Kipling comes to [TS]

  meet Mark Twain it is kind of in an [TS]

  interesting question of what it what are [TS]

  you trying to say here and because he [TS]

  did sort of see through it and was able [TS]

  to create this work and so one of the [TS]

  questions in this series is [TS]

  it is the series saying that creativity [TS]

  is essentially a magical power that is [TS]

  enabled by this in in the series case [TS]

  this this source or is it not [TS]

  and is it is it subvert it in some way [TS]

  but it does exist otherwise because Mark [TS]

  Twain and told them to to hit the bricks [TS]

  yeah and Mark Twain is Mark Twain right [TS]

  well i don't think your theory is [TS]

  actually wrong even though it's actually [TS]

  just maybe we just move my carrier rise [TS]

  to see but it actually was nothing more [TS]

  to a sort of classic British perception [TS]

  of not just American writers but the [TS]

  American person you know sort of that [TS]

  like wisdom in the simple people [TS]

  approaching well of course mark twain [TS]

  wouldn't fall for this because he's so [TS]

  of the earth and folksy that he would [TS]

  see right through all of this [TS]

  manipulation and of the shadowy [TS]

  organization and where the Brits of [TS]

  course would fall right into it because [TS]

  they're all about there might also be [TS]

  some this might also be above the theme [TS]

  that later ties into the whole [TS]

  fictitious geography because at the end [TS]

  of the trade they they do have an [TS]

  excerpt from Wilson Taylor's map where [TS]

  he puts in pins right so Tommy Tommy's [TS]

  father the one thing that Tommy ever [TS]

  really did the bond with his father the [TS]

  writer was that his father taught him [TS]

  the geographic locations where things [TS]

  that were fictional happened yes and [TS]

  which seemed to be important not [TS]

  important at the time but seems to be [TS]

  very important to becoming more [TS]

  important now especially since it when [TS]

  he breaks into the safe it's remember [TS]

  what I taught you [TS]

  right right so so so it's very much this [TS]

  question of like what it what is how [TS]

  does fiction and meet reality and does [TS]

  it does it is there a sense of place [TS]

  rightly yeah and it's actually one of [TS]

  the parts of the book i liked the most [TS]

  as I've always been somewhat interested [TS]

  in where fictional things happen in real [TS]

  life in growing up in New England and [TS]

  going to the Hawthorne is House of the [TS]

  Seven Gables and in New York City always [TS]

  be in some random bar and be a little [TS]

  plaque that the gift of the magi was [TS]

  written here [TS]

  yeah I always wanted to go down to [TS]

  Greenwich Village and see where dr. [TS]

  Strange's house isn't right [TS]

  yeah because it's a real address and [TS]

  there's nothing there and of course [TS]

  that's part of the joke is that people [TS]

  who don't know him he's hidden his [TS]

  sanctum sanctorum behind 7-eleven or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  is that right there it in the the soil [TS]

  literary gps so I think they really [TS]

  haven't but it is also interesting in [TS]

  that the book is talking about where [TS]

  fiction and reality meet and these [TS]

  locations are at last sort of physical [TS]

  place of where these things eat this is [TS]

  real and the unreal so who is this guy [TS]

  who is this antagonist this bearded guy [TS]

  with a scythe who kills everybody [TS]

  sorry to spoil alert because everybody [TS]

  and everybody in this house except for [TS]

  Tommy Taylor you know do what we know [TS]

  about this guy is he he's a [TS]

  representative of some force that has [TS]

  been around and that is steering writers [TS]

  to write about certain families why he [TS]

  killed Kipling's daughter spoiler rayon [TS]

  we also know that he lost his hand [TS]

  courtesy of wilson because they [TS]

  mentioned that let's take his other hand [TS]

  yeah they mentioned that in the book and [TS]

  the hand is imbued with some sort of [TS]

  magical power because when Tommy goes to [TS]

  visit Wilson's former mistress after she [TS]

  delivers the message that this literary [TS]

  cabal tells her to it turns out that she [TS]

  also tried to slip in a little something [TS]

  for Tommy and he threatened her with the [TS]

  hands you've seen this hand you know [TS]

  what it can do [TS]

  right right and he does suggest at one [TS]

  point that he's the devil although it [TS]

  was actually discussed this with that [TS]

  line [TS]

  great I'm Lucifer the bringer of light [TS]

  says the siam whose lighting his [TS]

  cigarette and he says you might have [TS]

  been off by a few feet on that one right [TS]

  also interesting in the metal thing from [TS]

  the fact that might carry the most [TS]

  popular vertigo book was Lucifer the [TS]

  Lightbringer yes [TS]

  see I all of these references completely [TS]

  lost on me did this is why I rely on you [TS]

  guys but there's also there's so much [TS]

  about this book that is I don't know [TS]

  self-referential the right term it's not [TS]

  a really rich family background is the [TS]

  way I thought of it where I just you can [TS]

  really tell that its forebears are in [TS]

  Tim Hunter because I got to be honest I [TS]

  was thinking of Tim Hunter a lot more [TS]

  reading this book especially through the [TS]

  London sequences and that 200 is Tim [TS]

  Hunter is a boy wizard [TS]

  oh this is in his various harry potter [TS]

  before harry potter was around yeah and [TS]

  that was part of another it's another [TS]

  version another version ok and the way [TS]

  he was originally introduced neil gaiman [TS]

  wrote the original I think four-part [TS]

  miniseries with him right with a [TS]

  different artist was a painting prestige [TS]

  thing is beautiful one of my first I and [TS]

  looks like that i read and really got [TS]

  into [TS]

  and over the course of that book tim [TS]

  runs into John Constantine and I think [TS]

  dr. strange at one point [TS]

  What's Wrong universal on you Adam [TS]

  street and you know he wasn't ready to [TS]

  all the DC mystical characters it was a [TS]

  swamp thing you know that something [TS]

  wasn't it was a mr. e Phantom Stranger [TS]

  very classic 16 so DC literally i will [TS]

  call it John Constantine the hellblazer [TS]

  and this was just before the vertical [TS]

  launch or maybe soon before the vertical [TS]

  launch we're talking like 1991 so it's [TS]

  sort of the equivalent of what would [TS]

  have been vertigo if it had been [TS]

  invented yet [TS]

  yeah alright the same way that Eleanor [TS]

  swamp thing is widely considered to be [TS]

  vertical before alright was invented yet [TS]

  that's a good rule of thumb and then [TS]

  what they did with Tim Hunter is they [TS]

  did books of magic which was 75 issue [TS]

  serious which actually have the flimsies [TS]

  and then after that they did names of [TS]

  magic which was a 25 issue series [TS]

  because people were not buying it but [TS]

  one of the themes and names of magic [TS]

  comes down to the power of words to set [TS]

  the foundation for reality and one of [TS]

  the villainous forces they have to [TS]

  defeat is this this want to converse [TS]

  creature that brings out of the book and [TS]

  the only way it is stated and ultimately [TS]

  defeated is when somebody says the right [TS]

  word [TS]

  so so Tim Hunter has always been a [TS]

  little bit about that what is real what [TS]

  is not real [TS]

  what words have the power to shape not [TS]

  to shape and these guys work on Tim [TS]

  Hunter and they went to Lucifer which [TS]

  also this really heavy metal article [TS]

  background what you just said about the [TS]

  writing this stuff is what's shaping [TS]

  reality in the fourth issue that's [TS]

  exactly what happened when you had that [TS]

  bad literary gathering of more writers [TS]

  yeah you know in the the house that [TS]

  Frankenstein was written in discussing [TS]

  horror and then the book becomes a [TS]

  horror genre command yeah dad Joshua or [TS]

  oh yeah kill our one-at-a-time a dark [TS]

  house in the middle of a storm yeah and [TS]

  that reminded me of the movie adaptation [TS]

  yeah which had that same sort of the [TS]

  movie is talking about we don't want to [TS]

  become this thing that's going to be all [TS]

  shoot-'em-up are chasing and then the [TS]

  movie becomes yes [TS]

  not that it's not my favorite movie [TS]

  I I actually think it's it i think the [TS]

  clever thing was that that was what they [TS]

  were trying to do and in the end they [TS]

  succeeded in making a bad movie about [TS]

  making a bad movie right because it [TS]

  wasn't it didn't seem ironic enough it [TS]

  just seemed bad i like it on a metal of [TS]

  but I like well that and that's one of [TS]

  the things that really struck me about [TS]

  the unwritten is it for me it was [TS]

  actually very hard to get into the story [TS]

  of the actual events of the unwritten [TS]

  because i was so pulled out and viewing [TS]

  it on that metal level of this is a [TS]

  story about telling stories and about [TS]

  the effect of storytelling i love that [TS]

  stuff that is some of my favorite kind [TS]

  of work in general i love love analyzing [TS]

  works of fiction and discovering that [TS]

  they're talking about themselves that [TS]

  this is my topic for another podcast but [TS]

  my favorite thing about the finale of [TS]

  lost [TS]

  no spoilers here other than to say that [TS]

  I felt like it was I liked it many [TS]

  people hated it [TS]

  that's one of things I like best about [TS]

  it was I felt like it was actually [TS]

  talking about itself was talking about [TS]

  what happens when you're at the end of a [TS]

  story and the last episode of a TV show [TS]

  and you want to say goodbye to everybody [TS]

  because you know you're not going to see [TS]

  them ever again and that it was very [TS]

  self-aware and I know that doesn't work [TS]

  for some people but I i got that same [TS]

  kind of vibe from the unwritten that [TS]

  without to the point where i was almost [TS]

  lost on some of those people are getting [TS]

  murdered in the house where where Mary [TS]

  Shelley read frankenstein because i was [TS]

  kinda more engaged in in the mystery of [TS]

  this intertextual ality of like is it [TS]

  real and how does it affect it and what [TS]

  does it all mean and and I you know I [TS]

  don't know if that that happen for you [TS]

  guys but I didn't I was I was more [TS]

  focused on that I was on the fact that [TS]

  their characters and who are they and [TS]

  that they're being murdered horribly [TS]

  because they're just fictional [TS]

  characters and then boom which of course [TS]

  they all are right and that's the the [TS]

  interesting thing in that I sort of look [TS]

  at that the whole slasher part is sort [TS]

  of a backdrop like uslike against the [TS]

  bigger issues after the fact that [TS]

  establishes the villain right now he's [TS]

  actually really bad [TS]

  I'm engines also really cathartic for [TS]

  people who really hates genre [TS]

  classification because they make a point [TS]

  in earlier issue of having his people [TS]

  identified by the genres that they write [TS]

  and there's that one really annoying [TS]

  person who's got oh I read a sexy [TS]

  vampire detective and another guy's like [TS]

  'oh i take care of HP Lovecraft and one [TS]

  guys like I do torture porn and they had [TS]

  unabashedly embraced their market niches [TS]

  that [TS]

  her and then all of them just get killed [TS]

  brutally right and I wonder if it comes [TS]

  down to the creator's saying something [TS]

  along the lines of look you know the [TS]

  genre can make you but it can also kill [TS]

  you or look we don't think that John was [TS]

  a good idea this is so cathartic being [TS]

  able to kill them and I think there's [TS]

  something there about following your [TS]

  creative Muse vs selling out [TS]

  that's part of the story because in many [TS]

  ways you could view those people as [TS]

  being sell out there they're writing for [TS]

  an audience in a market and they become [TS]

  successful at it and then if you flip to [TS]

  the the last chapter 15 issue with [TS]

  kipling and Twain I mean that's [TS]

  basically what the story is there is the [TS]

  Kipling sort of sold-out and it made him [TS]

  famous by selling out so it's like are [TS]

  you [TS]

  is it like a deal with the devil where [TS]

  you become famous because you sold out [TS]

  or is that just unusual cost effect the [TS]

  sellouts the ones who become famous [TS]

  because that's why they become famous as [TS]

  they've sold out and Twain is not a [TS]

  sellout and just sent them away that [TS]

  it's it's really interesting it's like [TS]

  that two levels are these writers [TS]

  selling out and is that what this is [TS]

  about is not being true to yourself are [TS]

  all the right ourselves and how does the [TS]

  wild fit into that because we're the [TS]

  mysterious character whose name is [TS]

  escaping me at the moment the blond guy [TS]

  with the beard [TS]

  hi when Kipling is worried about Wilder [TS]

  that's wild that's why i asked a wild [TS]

  and he says while doesn't actually have [TS]

  you know staying power it's a piece of [TS]

  the moment but my friends and I we don't [TS]

  like him at all right which is [TS]

  interesting because what is that what [TS]

  does he want his trigger is true to [TS]

  himself or he's true to himself and [TS]

  writing things that they specifically [TS]

  don't want cause Kipling says point2 [TS]

  wild was that he was granted a lot of [TS]

  his lines are very facile and flip but [TS]

  his whole body of work is devoted to [TS]

  pointing out hypocrisy and and telling [TS]

  people that they need to learn to see [TS]

  things as they truly are not as the [TS]

  polite social delusions that are easier [TS]

  for everybody else to swallow and there [TS]

  is definitely a sense of this in a story [TS]

  that this isn't just about you know [TS]

  getting writers on the payroll it's [TS]

  about steering but the reality or [TS]

  theories reception of the time yeah in a [TS]

  certain direction whatever that [TS]

  direction might be that's interesting so [TS]

  the idea of stories set the culture is [TS]

  very interesting and very true if you [TS]

  look at all the early science fiction [TS]

  work in jewels for [TS]

  turned in all these that the writers [TS]

  envisioned all these things before the [TS]

  scientists when I can make that [TS]

  yeah wired once did this futures issue [TS]

  is back in 1995 the reason I remember [TS]

  this is because i actually ended up [TS]

  writing a paper on in grad school where [TS]

  they were interviewing futurologists or [TS]

  whatever and the one thing that came out [TS]

  of all the interviews was if you want to [TS]

  find out where technology is going to be [TS]

  in 25 years [TS]

  read the science fiction it's happening [TS]

  now because the kids who grew up reading [TS]

  this stuff are then going to take into [TS]

  their working lives right that's the [TS]

  story about the motorola startac phone [TS]

  which is not only named specifically to [TS]

  reference star track but was designed by [TS]

  a bunch of people who grew up with Star [TS]

  Trek and wanted to flip out communicator [TS]

  like Captain Kirk at and so they built [TS]

  it to go back to the idea that story [TS]

  shape the narrative of the time or [TS]

  reflect them there's the page where you [TS]

  see the news portal with the the google [TS]

  search interface and the amplified news [TS]

  network and the internet people talking [TS]

  at once there's a forum thread is the [TS]

  first time i think i've seen a forum [TS]

  thread and a comic book one of the [TS]

  people's names his bunk Moreland who is [TS]

  a character on the wire [TS]

  haha and the reason that stood out for [TS]

  me is because I have totally missed that [TS]

  I've been lucky enough to sit on another [TS]

  academic panels were people have talked [TS]

  about how the wire is essentially one of [TS]

  the first examples of long-form [TS]

  fictional reportage where as a TV series [TS]

  it's deeply rooted in observation [TS]

  reporting and then all of that this fax [TS]

  got mashed into a fictional outline and [TS]

  spit back out to people where once they [TS]

  saw that they could then begin to see [TS]

  how this is playing out in real life [TS]

  there's already that fiction vs [TS]

  nonfiction loop in the wire and then [TS]

  there's a slight little reference to [TS]

  riot read in the forum thing because you [TS]

  got a to anyone standing man yeah [TS]

  bunk Moreland and how Punk having you be [TS]

  getting drunk with delta delta yes [TS]

  yeah and I just you know again again you [TS]

  could argue that the wire actually does [TS]

  blur that line as well because i'm sure [TS]

  there are people in Baltimore who would [TS]

  love to tell you that look you know you [TS]

  may have seen five seasons of this TV [TS]

  show but this is what our it really is [TS]

  like and I'm sure there are people [TS]

  across the country who have this [TS]

  impression of Baltimore based entirely [TS]

  on five seasons of the wire right and [TS]

  maybe some [TS]

  some homicide in the corner but it's all [TS]

  based on David Simon basically writing [TS]

  about Baltimore David Simon's created a [TS]

  fictitious Baltimore basically which is [TS]

  based on real-life reporting see where [TS]

  it gets all right right that's well [TS]

  that's interesting because there and it [TS]

  is it is fiction based on reality yeah [TS]

  and that is one of the core questions [TS]

  and the unwritten is is Tommy Taylor a [TS]

  fraud who was adopted for stolen from [TS]

  Eastern European parents or any real and [TS]

  is he the real Tommy Taylor or is he [TS]

  just a kid who had not none of that he [TS]

  wasn't created by the story of existence [TS]

  can be seen as right name with the [TS]

  unwritten and what and what does that [TS]

  what does the name of this comic mean [TS]

  with all those people who get unwritten [TS]

  who there are dissolved into words in [TS]

  the book which I sort of like very [TS]

  visually was it was really compelling [TS]

  because we're talking a lot about this [TS]

  on the sort of the meta-level and I [TS]

  don't think you can actually talk about [TS]

  it or not it isn't a successful story [TS]

  like this something that you can enjoy [TS]

  on the meta-level and get all those sort [TS]

  of references but also on it on just [TS]

  that reading it as a simple story and [TS]

  does this work as a simple story i was [TS]

  going to say i would love to find out [TS]

  the impression of somebody who wasn't [TS]

  familiar with vertigo [TS]

  well that's me or fantasy and so Jason [TS]

  yes what is your profession [TS]

  well as I alluded to earlier I i did [TS]

  have a difficult time really getting [TS]

  into it on that simple story level [TS]

  because i kept thinking about wow this [TS]

  is this is playing on a lot of levels [TS]

  here because it's a it's a story about [TS]

  stories and you know and it wants you to [TS]

  view it that way because every issue [TS]

  begins in a story and then pulls you out [TS]

  of the story into reality [TS]

  so it was obviously i don't i'm not [TS]

  going to get any other references to [TS]

  other not only other works but also just [TS]

  I don't know that the history of of the [TS]

  the kind of things that vertigo produces [TS]

  where you look at a vertigo thing and [TS]

  say oh it's a vertical thing I got that [TS]

  i think i've read i'm up to like the [TS]

  fifth issue of The Sandman I'm like [TS]

  completely a litter about that sort of [TS]

  thing here that neil gaiman is good dump [TS]

  he's gonna go place is he's coming out [TS]

  yeah that's right i wonder what novel by [TS]

  him would be like for a screenplay for [TS]

  at episode of Doctor Who anyway we'll [TS]

  find out [TS]

  that kid is going places so so that was [TS]

  my challenges like the characters are [TS]

  our i'm not entirely sure what they are [TS]

  and if they're kind of blanks [TS]

  I mean Tommy Taylor is in many ways in [TS]

  this first set of stories he's really [TS]

  been frustrating character he's he's [TS]

  he's a kind of grumpy guy who made who [TS]

  is unsure about his past and he's trying [TS]

  to repel against it and say no no I'm [TS]

  not that kid but I think there's also [TS]

  this great question there that has to be [TS]

  there for the story but as a result of a [TS]

  little off-putting and there's the the [TS]

  one other character who's the woman [TS]

  whose name escapes me hexham [TS]

  yeah-hoo-hoo comes in and seems to know [TS]

  what's going on and is trying to to help [TS]

  him along the way she herself her name [TS]

  is like character from a fictitious [TS]

  right work right and there's a clear and [TS]

  it seems it seems like she may actually [TS]

  be a fictional creation come to life [TS]

  although again we've seen there are a [TS]

  couple characters early on where there's [TS]

  a guy who supposedly as the the [TS]

  Voldemort essentially of of the of the [TS]

  Tommy Taylor books come to life and it [TS]

  turns out that you have Jeff keen on the [TS]

  first page but it turns out that the [TS]

  voltage or whatever his name my mouth [TS]

  something out Earl folio the vampire [TS]

  ambrosio camp at contemporary oh he's a [TS]

  he's a he's a drifter who just risky [TS]

  they said at least so they say right [TS]

  which gets us back to that but again so [TS]

  much going on and rich in that level but [TS]

  i would have to if if I'm answering your [TS]

  question truthfully i have to say that i [TS]

  was i was actually maybe two engaged too [TS]

  soon on that upper level and not able to [TS]

  invest enough and the characters and I [TS]

  I'd almost rather have seen hard to do [TS]

  this especially if you're coming out [TS]

  with sequential issues you know 22 pages [TS]

  at a time really hard to do this but I [TS]

  almost like to see think i was reading [TS]

  the story of a guy who's burdened by the [TS]

  his father's work for longer and really [TS]

  feel like you know I've connected with [TS]

  that guy before you pull the rug out [TS]

  from under me and I felt like the rug [TS]

  was never under me I i fell in the first [TS]

  issue I did feel some of that connection [TS]

  but i wonder if it was them using some [TS]

  shorthand in the sense that it it starts [TS]

  in a comic book convention which I'm [TS]

  intimately familiar with comic books [TS]

  entrants into one of those now and as a [TS]

  past month this one yeah yeah [TS]

  comic-con 2010 is the first comic book [TS]

  convention that she went big [TS]

  yeah well we go big or go home exactly [TS]

  then I went home the fact that it starts [TS]

  at a comic convention with a guy who's [TS]

  been he is there to make money off of [TS]

  not even something he did years ago but [TS]

  something his father did and named after [TS]

  years ago and named after him [TS]

  mhm you know being kind of embittered by [TS]

  it being you know that he's defined by [TS]

  this character but the same time they're [TS]

  exploiting at making money because he [TS]

  has no other way to do it if you go to [TS]

  any moderately sized comic convention [TS]

  you'll see those people from the [TS]

  seventies sci-fi TV shows i took a [TS]

  picture of guilt girardin Erin gray [TS]

  signing things culture our hair and [TS]

  wearing a pair of shorts signing Buck [TS]

  Rogers memorabilia on the first page [TS]

  they have them sitting next to somebody [TS]

  who's name is Jareth calendar and [TS]

  calendar basically calls out the [TS]

  creator's intense with always thought [TS]

  your Christopher Robin and Tommy replies [TS]

  back looks like you've stopped the [TS]

  circle of your immediate family and it's [TS]

  pretty obvious that it's meant to be a [TS]

  slam on Family Circle and Bill and Jeff [TS]

  quinoa I did I didn't see a an article [TS]

  somewhere where I think my kerry said [TS]

  that the model for this story was [TS]

  Christopher Robin and that the idea that [TS]

  a million wrote these wildly successful [TS]

  winnie-the-pooh books with Christopher [TS]

  Robin at the center and that was his son [TS]

  and yeah but in his attempt to director [TS]

  eclipsed the Sun to the point where all [TS]

  the people wanted to talk about was oh [TS]

  you're Christopher Robin from the books [TS]

  and the answer is No [TS]

  yeah I'm the one from the real world and [TS]

  it's it's a really interesting idea and [TS]

  you're right you know they spend a lot [TS]

  of the first issue I guess maybe what [TS]

  did it for me is that by dropping you [TS]

  into the Tommy Taylor books immediately [TS]

  I I like immediately I'm like all right [TS]

  we're going to juxtapose the books with [TS]

  the reality of this guy i don't know [TS]

  it's an interesting story but I guess I [TS]

  was more engaged on that the meta-level [TS]

  then I was on the actual level i would [TS]

  love to know if the villain pull [TS]

  Minister supposed to be named after [TS]

  Philip Pullman in any way [TS]

  wow that's a nice reference to get all [TS]

  these different things and in pullman is [TS]

  is such a distinct fantasy writer and [TS]

  many of his conventions are both i would [TS]

  say what he did in the golden compass [TS]

  so different from any fiction [TS]

  conventions we're all good news will [TS]

  around you BTW guys can save the [TS]

  universe but a horrible personal cost to [TS]

  you and it's exactly the opposite of the [TS]

  way a lot of fiction works that were [TS]

  somehow magically works everybody so [TS]

  before we move on from talking about the [TS]

  unwritten night I want to ask a similar [TS]

  question here which is did you like it [TS]

  and would you keep reading it [TS]

  yes and yes wow that's like no I do have [TS]

  elaborate theories that I do have some [TS]

  trepidation and this may be more my [TS]

  experiences as a longtime comic book [TS]

  reader and less a reflection on this [TS]

  book but unless they have a way to [TS]

  resolve this and then find a way to [TS]

  continue the underlying bedrock themes I [TS]

  worry that this book will turn into [TS]

  something else after about 50 issues [TS]

  because you can really only drag out the [TS]

  central mystery who are these people why [TS]

  are they trying to shape reality where [TS]

  did Wilson go once you once you answer [TS]

  those questions you have to have [TS]

  invented a new set of questions into the [TS]

  first quest that's a lot of quests into [TS]

  the first quest or you have to kind of [TS]

  hit a reboot button and summary boots [TS]

  are are are good and others [TS]

  wait what about us yes that's true with [TS]

  any and kind of comic series especially [TS]

  or any long-running series we're at some [TS]

  point you you either need to shut it [TS]

  down or that's actually the things I [TS]

  like best about salmon as they shut it [TS]

  down after 75 issues there was a story [TS]

  he told it he was done but vertigo is [TS]

  actually pretty good as an imprint about [TS]

  doing that with the exception of swamp [TS]

  thing and help laser you allow stories [TS]

  to sort of run their course and then end [TS]

  yeah so and I think you're actually [TS]

  seeing that in comics a lot more often [TS]

  and x mac is ending with issue 50 [TS]

  planetary ended issue whatever 27-1 [TS]

  right only took like five years to do [TS]

  know if he started planting like 1999 oh [TS]

  my god it was fantastic we should talk [TS]

  about planetary sometime that Alright [TS]

  yeah that haven't realized some serious [TS]

  you've got it would be a bit you're [TS]

  skipping skipping ahead now because I'm [TS]

  gonna ask you what you're reading now [TS]

  and what should you read because that's [TS]

  going to be one of the recurring themes [TS]

  on this yeah [TS]

  excellently named podcast whatever it's [TS]

  named just i saya i was surprised that I [TS]

  like this it's been a long time since [TS]

  i've read a vertigo book for many years [TS]

  and so I i did enjoy this and [TS]

  I'm intrigued enough about some of the [TS]

  mystery that will keep reading it I [TS]

  think they set up a lot of questions the [TS]

  way to sort of cliffhanger it ends on is [TS]

  the flying cat it's quite painful that [TS]

  they end on a cliffhanger and do the [TS]

  thing that I like the least [TS]

  although again intentionally frustrating [TS]

  in comics which is you end on a [TS]

  cliffhanger and then you do a standalone [TS]

  issue that's not related to anything [TS]

  with the company for gotta build that [TS]

  tension guy finally it's here it so it [TS]

  doesn't answer any of those questions [TS]

  and this is why trades i think of more [TS]

  satisfying sometimes is because they're [TS]

  published so far after flimsies that if [TS]

  you really want to find out what [TS]

  happened to you you can go and then do [TS]

  so so does there's probably an entire [TS]

  podcast here but just the short version [TS]

  of trade paperback versus the little you [TS]

  know flimsies as we as we seem to have [TS]

  have started calling them you know where [TS]

  do you where do you come down on on that [TS]

  leaving digital aside for a minute just [TS]

  the trade trades versus the flames I've [TS]

  obviously I i attempted to reconnect to [TS]

  the flimsy you know individual issues [TS]

  and fail then went back to two trades [TS]

  and hardcovers just because the [TS]

  individual tracking and I was trained [TS]

  not to throw them out or recycle them [TS]

  which means you gotta save them away [TS]

  unlike every other periodicals yet [TS]

  higher garage is now taken over with my [TS]

  flimsies collection which is why switch [TS]

  to trade so you you switched and aren't [TS]

  buying individual issues anymore [TS]

  the only exception might be ex machina [TS]

  because I've been following that since [TS]

  issue 1 and you want to ride it to the [TS]

  end [TS]

  yeah because that's what I do with what [TS]

  that's what i do y the last man or if [TS]

  it's a limited brunch series that I [TS]

  suspect won't make it into trade [TS]

  all right i'll do that for example [TS]

  vertigo had a series called the witching [TS]

  that I enjoyed that you'll never see [TS]

  internet was a tennis shoe run it didn't [TS]

  do well at all and disappeared i'm glad [TS]

  i have this because I can pull those out [TS]

  there's one or two series i'll still buy [TS]

  flimsies mainly just to support the [TS]

  series because i don't think it's that [TS]

  popular or big but then I had switch [TS]

  entirely trades and now I'm kind of [TS]

  dropping trades in favor of more omnibus [TS]

  collections in the Attic offers as Biggs [TS]

  hundred-dollar tire collection and [TS]

  because now it you're reading a floppy [TS]

  takes like two minutes and it sort of [TS]

  very disposable but now even a lot of [TS]

  trades there are five issues of these [TS]

  two minutes floppies so in trade is like [TS]

  15 minutes of reading a lot of times [TS]

  which that's not enough for me anymore [TS]

  it takes me longer to bagged and boarded [TS]

  flames and it does to actually be [TS]

  absolute collections tend to be 24 plus [TS]

  issues and to me that's a good [TS]

  experience and you're getting more [TS]

  complete story it as a part of that [TS]

  experience are you [TS]

  yeah I have some in some things I picked [TS]

  up and trade because i have made sure i [TS]

  wanted to commit to them and then i end [TS]

  up with them in trading I'm like I wish [TS]

  I just like invincible actually you [TS]

  bought me the first two traits of [TS]

  invincible and they're great and I [TS]

  actually wish that I had a big hard [TS]

  cover on the buses of those and i may go [TS]

  back and do that because i am that's [TS]

  another topic for another show i suppose [TS]

  but I love love love Robert Kirkman's [TS]

  invincible to the point where i should [TS]

  have you know just committed to the [TS]

  hardcovers like i did with ultimate [TS]

  spider-man right I just have a hard for [TS]

  planetary i bought the I first absolute [TS]

  collection and then I had to wait three [TS]

  four years for the second look like a [TS]

  little swing out yeah and to finish the [TS]

  story but now I have to go back and [TS]

  reread the first absolute so i can read [TS]

  the whole thing at once but yeah that's [TS]

  the problem with the bigger you get in [TS]

  the collections the longer you have to [TS]

  wait [TS]

  writing collections right even on the [TS]

  when I was doing the Marvel heart cut [TS]

  our soft covers of ultimate spider-man [TS]

  and waiting for the hardcover you to its [TS]

  to trade weights so it's like a year [TS]

  yeah yeah so to a yearly hardcover the [TS]

  drops on your desk and like all right [TS]

  which is not that different from you [TS]

  know that the Harry Potter series or any [TS]

  other kind of a novel series where you [TS]

  wait a year or two kids like the [TS]

  difference between when television shows [TS]

  get broadcast on the air for the first [TS]

  time versus the dvds right there shows [TS]

  we're back to the wire [TS]

  well I actually watch the wire as it was [TS]

  on HBO [TS]

  i'm watching about DVD and I actually [TS]

  think that there's a substantial [TS]

  difference between when you watch a show [TS]

  and it airs every weekend have a week to [TS]

  let it percolate your brain you think [TS]

  about you invested his expectations into [TS]

  it i just have to do that with a wire I [TS]

  can't watch the wire like like now Andy [TS]

  because now it can be but um okay here's [TS]

  another example television what might be [TS]

  one of my favorite junk series is the [TS]

  tutors I just I just find that series [TS]

  delightful it's hysterically funny [TS]

  jonathan rhys-meyers place Henry the [TS]

  answers and I [TS]

  hinge lunatic rock god the history has [TS]

  been tied up and left in a closet [TS]

  somewhere i think if i had watched an [TS]

  episode by episode on showtime I would [TS]

  have been very frustrated because Oh [TS]

  they've dropped this storyline and oh [TS]

  this person was on this episode there [TS]

  and you never see them again i download [TS]

  entire seasons from itunes and just run [TS]

  them when I'm working on something or if [TS]

  I feel like watching two or three in a [TS]

  row and it's a much different experience [TS]

  and I feel sometimes that reading [TS]

  single-issue comics compared to reading [TS]

  the entire story arc through trade it's [TS]

  the same thing where you can be really [TS]

  disappointed by single issue where you [TS]

  can be really late to buy a single issue [TS]

  but when you see it in context in trades [TS]

  it's it's a it's a different experience [TS]

  in a different reaction when watch men [TS]

  came out i read watchmen as it was [TS]

  coming out and and actually stopped [TS]

  reading comics after the last issue [TS]

  because I felt like I I all it is put it [TS]

  made everything else pale incompatible [TS]

  done it this will never happen again two [TS]

  years but what that experience was [TS]

  really you know you would read issue 1 [TS]

  and then a month later you would read [TS]

  issue 1 an issue 2 and then a month [TS]

  later you would read one two and three [TS]

  and then you had enough time to read the [TS]

  text in the back where there were these [TS]

  detailed excerpts that would take you [TS]

  longer to read the comic just these [TS]

  three or four text pages and then by the [TS]

  end you know there were two months [TS]

  between issue 11 an issue 12 it had been [TS]

  monthly up till that boy that was [TS]

  painful and delayed a month and and what [TS]

  a cliffhanger and again you know it then [TS]

  it's read 1 through 11 so that when 12 [TS]

  hits and that's a very different [TS]

  experience to have all that time to [TS]

  ponder vs vs not i think that's why I [TS]

  was so disappointed with how J michael [TS]

  Straczynski is rising stars ended its [TS]

  because i had to wait a billion years [TS]

  for for the final issue and then once it [TS]

  was done I was this is at so i waited [TS]

  for this I felt that way about the Star [TS]

  Wars trilogy the second one [TS]

  oh my god that's right i want to have my [TS]

  life for three more star wars movies and [TS]

  this is what I get haha yeah yeah you're [TS]

  right i mean rising stars what I think [TS]

  if you'd read all all of those as I'm [TS]

  unit and is angry my heart away with [TS]

  disappointing [TS]

  yeah yeah cuz i read i read vol.3 in [TS]

  after reading vol.12 much earlier in [TS]

  trade paperback I I like vol.3 came out [TS]

  my reaction was ok i see what he was [TS]

  doing there I wasn't quite as enraged as [TS]

  you but I do [TS]

  think that it's about expectations about [TS]

  waiting and he held up and if it's build [TS]

  up for nothing then I did feel in the [TS]

  unwritten that the issues were pretty [TS]

  dense yes yes yes going like it's only [TS]

  22 pages I know which i haven't had that [TS]

  experience in a comic in a long time [TS]

  since they're so decompressed now and if [TS]

  you read them digitally it's just like a [TS]

  conversation on the previous podcast [TS]

  about reading in the end an e-reader you [TS]

  don't even know how far into it you are [TS]

  yeah and and you realize what this is [TS]

  page 15 you know you tap and see that [TS]

  it's page fifteen to twenty i almost [TS]

  think that our meeting this week's [TS]

  reading this comic monthly would work [TS]

  yeah but it's so it's a good so you have [TS]

  so much to chillin right and you have a [TS]

  good a good enough experience in reading [TS]

  the single issue that you don't feel [TS]

  like you're wasting your money or that [TS]

  you need the second one right away your [TS]

  own you're not getting necessarily a [TS]

  complete story but you're getting enough [TS]

  of a story that satisfied she wanted [TS]

  yeah it feels is actually really [TS]

  satisfying an issue by issue basis [TS]

  because even after you finish the story [TS]

  you go back and you take a look at the [TS]

  side panel artwork and the themes that [TS]

  they've introduced and you get what [TS]

  they're doing visually on top of [TS]

  narrative Lee it's it's it's delightful [TS]

  that by ok let's move on to what are you [TS]

  reading right now i thought i would ask [TS]

  each of you you don't have to go into a [TS]

  lot of detail if you don't want to but [TS]

  even in the realm of comics you know [TS]

  what's got your attention these days [TS]

  well the I don't need to stump you [TS]

  rather than going on written it's what [TS]

  we've been reading yet on the trade side [TS]

  everything i'm getting his old material [TS]

  and really enjoy that out Sandman [TS]

  mystery theater which is the [TS]

  nineteen-thirties New York City Sandman [TS]

  in the gas mask pulp stories written by [TS]

  matt wagner mostly illustrated by guy [TS]

  davis beautiful work there we could do a [TS]

  podcast about that and maybe we will [TS]

  send a series of trades that i've been [TS]

  reading issue wise i enjoy agents of [TS]

  atlas from marvel comics which is a [TS]

  crazy sort of the brat pack of superhero [TS]

  books it's it's taken from a what-if [TS]

  story from like for the rat past six not [TS]

  Brad pack the red right [TS]

  pat was not it was gonna be so washy [TS]

  right mom and dad back ere I thanks the [TS]

  best friend Sammy Andy and itself is [TS]

  essentially this a talking gorilla Man U [TS]

  Iranian spaceman a Venus goddess a [TS]

  murderer woman and a nineteen fifties [TS]

  FBI agent jimmy wu yep guys forming a [TS]

  team it's pretty fantastic written by [TS]

  Jeff Parker yeah really good i read the [TS]

  miniseries of that on your [TS]

  recommendation and really really good [TS]

  and funny and and is you know it's a [TS]

  actually an interesting because that is [TS]

  one of those rare cases where you've got [TS]

  a publisher owned scenario that that [TS]

  feels a lot more like it was a [TS]

  creator-owned book because there's so [TS]

  much creativity that goes into the [TS]

  building of that from from some old [TS]

  characters that would they found laying [TS]

  around in the Marvel and intellectual [TS]

  property in right yeah characters that [TS]

  were in like an eight-page backup story [TS]

  in a from a comic in the sixties ya and [TS]

  bring them into the modern-day quite [TS]

  literally bring them into the modern day [TS]

  followed him out and put them down in [TS]

  today and put them in charge of a little [TS]

  organization but syndicate yeah [TS]

  exit guys in charge of criminal criminal [TS]

  syndicate understand Francisco yes nice [TS]

  could be right here right now I love [TS]

  reading comics in San Francisco just for [TS]

  that reason because i love seeing how [TS]

  what landmarks they get or what ones [TS]

  they create I keep meaning to read those [TS]

  x-men issues we have moved to San I know [TS]

  yes in the Tana lived in San Francisco [TS]

  for a while so it was someone when she [TS]

  was doing that because in seven soldiers [TS]

  they explicitly referenced living in San [TS]

  Francisco attending a superhero support [TS]

  group in the east bay i was just telling [TS]

  you about seven soldiers yeah we should [TS]

  I've got all those if you want to bart [TS]

  well you'll download the many ways going [TS]

  to have got no no no I can't believe I [TS]

  could borrow all the flames on a [TS]

  wonderful NZ now i'm all the way if I [TS]

  got to get back to you and a hardcover [TS]

  so so what about you and Lisa what are [TS]

  you reading right now [TS]

  scalped real mention scale really love [TS]

  scalped think Jason Aaron is a fantastic [TS]

  writer it shows you characters that you [TS]

  don't see a lot of the other stories [TS]

  period so I'm enjoy an implicit snore [TS]

  and I have a soft spot for nor I'm [TS]

  catching up on invincible I just got the [TS]

  last two trades i am thinking about [TS]

  revisiting walking dead because [TS]

  love walking dead i read through the [TS]

  series run on my brother is an avid [TS]

  collector and so I read through the [TS]

  series run when I was visiting him last [TS]

  Thanksgiving and I had horrible [TS]

  nightmares for like three days straight [TS]

  after finishing a cute little do that [TS]

  for and so I there's part of me that's [TS]

  like I don't want to do it again and [TS]

  there's part of me that really wants to [TS]

  go back and see what I missed when I was [TS]

  busy cringing my way through the first [TS]

  time because when i was really the first [TS]

  time I just kept flipping the page to [TS]

  see what happened and I would be like oh [TS]

  this is horrible oh my god [TS]

  but you like writing specifically [TS]

  thinking obviously the first to the [TS]

  first two hard covers are in my amazon I [TS]

  i have read it and now the works too [TS]

  hard covers are in my amazon shopping [TS]

  cart i read both in the big hardcovers [TS]

  so I sort of read walking dead every two [TS]

  years when the new big hardcover comes [TS]

  out but now we won't have to we can [TS]

  watch it on AMC starting in november [TS]

  kind of curious that's another reason I [TS]

  want to reduce I want to be grounded and [TS]

  as we're in the Canon before it comes [TS]

  out on TV so i can be all pedantic and [TS]

  picking not like it at all and i am [TS]

  waiting for is turning over in his grave [TS]

  right now I'm saying let me out [TS]

  I'm Marvel from way back but i did get [TS]

  into Gail Simone's running birds of prey [TS]

  when she was that doing that in DC and [TS]

  they recently revived the title and I'm [TS]

  actually waiting for the trade to come [TS]

  the first revived trade to come out a [TS]

  few months when that happens on your [TS]

  right around it [TS]

  no it's galley brought it back at is [TS]

  that just the recent recent reboot [TS]

  reboot of like jun 2010 yeah that now [TS]

  has the guys in it to the yeah yeah [TS]

  yeahs be a jerk which i thought would [TS]

  make an interesting [TS]

  yeah salary could have a jerk in having [TS]

  the book [TS]

  sure well DC's always been really good [TS]

  about that i mean they had garden and [TS]

  the Green Lantern Corps booster gold [TS]

  goes back mr. gold yeah i mean they've [TS]

  always got somebody where you're just [TS]

  like okay and and and Jason what are you [TS]

  reading when I when I actually am [TS]

  reading right now is I just finished [TS]

  scott pilgrim vol 1 which did with a [TS]

  movie coming out and I thought well okay [TS]

  they would invest millions of dollars in [TS]

  making a movie maybe I should read the [TS]

  comic and so I i didn't i'm not sure i [TS]

  liked it quite frankly here i'm going to [TS]

  read it again i'm not a big fan of the [TS]

  cart super cartoony black-and-white [TS]

  comic genre and that's what that is and [TS]

  and i would say that this story for you [TS]

  that's not you know being married [TS]

  with children Ryan sure it's making two [TS]

  different i can remember around being [TS]

  married although i can't remember you [TS]

  know my gay roommate or anything like [TS]

  that but it won't turn out [TS]

  it is a you know I role model that's a [TS]

  young adult you know but but it is it is [TS]

  a different kind of vibe and it's [TS]

  interesting and yeah it's probably not [TS]

  for me but I curiosity ever read The [TS]

  Runaways the Marvel well because that's [TS]

  also again that's breaking up on right [TS]

  Frank avon International Union and I was [TS]

  gonna ask what your reaction to that was [TS]

  when you read that i really like the [TS]

  runaways actually am i I'm i enjoyed [TS]

  both both volumes of the runaways [TS]

  I i like that like the premise you know [TS]

  it's it's a it's a lot of players are [TS]

  evil like these premises keep it [TS]

  floating around is invincible the whole [TS]

  ideas is dat superman except it turns [TS]

  out that he's evil and he goes away and [TS]

  i have been reading your redeemable by [TS]

  Mark weight which is about student and [TS]

  going evil and killing everybody I want [TS]

  to get into that she's very good very [TS]

  good [TS]

  the The Runaways or bryan cave on just [TS]

  in general his stories are always he's [TS]

  got such great concepts that you can sum [TS]

  up in the one sentence yeah kids find [TS]

  out their parents are evil they run away [TS]

  or mayor gets infected with the alien [TS]

  technology right in New York City runs [TS]

  new right all the best-looking guy with [TS]

  a monkey yeah exactly just great [TS]

  concepts of the runways I felt started [TS]

  off really strong and then after reboot [TS]

  after reboot can be entered out a bit as [TS]

  much as a joss whedon fans i am I [TS]

  actually felt like they made a mistake [TS]

  by trying to keep it as an ongoing and [TS]

  not say you know again we've done 12 [TS]

  issues in the story is over and we might [TS]

  do another volume at some other point [TS]

  and instead sort of said let's make it [TS]

  like any other Marvel comic and just [TS]

  keep on producing those issues take a [TS]

  page from british television limited-run [TS]

  yeah just make the run and then come [TS]

  back if you want to come back with [TS]

  another story of something to marvel I [TS]

  think did fairly well with the ultimate [TS]

  swear they did volume on its volume to [TS]

  really hone and if I at least put itself [TS]

  contains the blast radius of jeph loeb [TS]

  writing ultimate vol.3 is you can or [TS]

  because you just don't read it and [TS]

  they're okay we should do a pot entire [TS]

  podcast and Ultimate Universe sometimes [TS]

  i would love I would have strong [TS]

  opinions about that see the good thing [TS]

  about this starting this podcast is that [TS]

  we seem to emerge from the episodes with [TS]

  more concepts for future episodes [TS]

  not entered with righteous onto the [TS]

  comic book club because I'm never gonna [TS]

  go to a regular book club I don't want [TS]

  to read Eat Pray Love and talk about it [TS]

  out and talk about combat is that is one [TS]

  yes that is why somebody somebody [TS]

  suggested on Twitter today that a zombie [TS]

  version of Eat Pray Love would be great [TS]

  grimsby brains love right [TS]

  um I'm sure someone is working on that [TS]

  right now is I'm sure Neal game and [TS]

  maybe working on that in fact that you [TS]

  have the marble on the universe that [TS]

  went on so my question not just for me [TS]

  but for for all of us to share is a is a [TS]

  what should I read which should be [TS]

  reading do you have a suggestion for [TS]

  something that we should read next or if [TS]

  you want based on if you like if you if [TS]

  you like let's read on written or just [TS]

  think just what [TS]

  well you could you can do whatever you [TS]

  like there are no rules here but I'm [TS]

  just you know him but what should we be [TS]

  what we should be reading in the future [TS]

  whether this is not a guarantee that [TS]

  we'll talk about it here but the wiimote [TS]

  books i think we should talk about the [TS]

  future are the one out there x makina I [TS]

  alright next Mac michael bloomberg gets [TS]

  magical powers my lord of its pretty [TS]

  much it you know because he's [TS]

  conservative i'm going to lobby for [TS]

  preacher if you've never read it [TS]

  mm not having an affair well that could [TS]

  be good [TS]

  yeah well I yeah I i started reading it [TS]

  back when it first then I tried the [TS]

  trades every now and then yeah I've [TS]

  never successfully been able to finish [TS]

  it could be my yeah yeah well we can get [TS]

  into a few my casa very exciting the [TS]

  planetary yes [TS]

  oh let me out various planetary for [TS]

  geologists of the unknown you know [TS]

  because that also gives us an [TS]

  opportunity to talk about that [TS]

  university created which ties into the [TS]

  authority and storm watch as well notice [TS]

  right yeah i recently read the authority [TS]

  and I thought that was actually pretty [TS]

  pretty good haha [TS]

  have you heard of the 20th century yeah [TS]

  consideration it's really good they [TS]

  rebooted a few times it's gotten really [TS]

  if you just read the market a large [TS]

  stuff or the warren ellis right yeah [TS]

  just those two are awesome in all it's [TS]

  actually more impressive if you consider [TS]

  when it was written in which was all [TS]

  late nineties there's actually as [TS]

  everything is like that authority got [TS]

  under the skin of some writer so badly [TS]

  just Superman issue devoted to debunking [TS]

  it which is like I'm not gay [TS]

  fuck you know this basically it was that [TS]

  because you know one of the bedrock [TS]

  premises of the authorities look we're [TS]

  gonna we're gonna take responsibility [TS]

  and do things that you people will shy [TS]

  away from doing and there is an [TS]

  authority like cabal that runs while the [TS]

  DC Universe for a couple of episodes and [TS]

  Superman take some medicine and it was [TS]

  no way we have an obligation to high [TS]

  standards not that rebooted the rebooted [TS]

  Justice League Justice William unlimited [TS]

  or grin explores and where the the [TS]

  aliens come from another planet and they [TS]

  basically say we're superheroes and [TS]

  we're going to take over and make the [TS]

  world a better place in the JLA is like [TS]

  what the hell [TS]

  there's like a Justice League extreme or [TS]

  justice league dark I can't remember the [TS]

  name of the title i have it i'll have to [TS]

  check my archive Scott that sounds so [TS]

  pretentious have to check but yes it had [TS]

  like the Ark of Noah had flashlights to [TS]

  different rooms like a black uniform who [TS]

  were working with this team and then the [TS]

  regular uniform have the regular Justice [TS]

  League and it was just insane i know i [TS]

  can t really good i don't think i can [TS]

  even give you guys any recommendations [TS]

  for something you should read that you [TS]

  haven't already read or that you have [TS]

  been recommended to me because I could [TS]

  say that the authority and I know that [TS]

  you recommended that Jamie and agreed [TS]

  Tom strong or top 10 [TS]

  have you got a result by snot naga lat [TS]

  long long time there's a nice big on the [TS]

  bus have thought yeah there's heat i [TS]

  ended up i had to have surgery at ucsf [TS]

  last year and they delayed it by a [TS]

  couple of hours and somebody had left [TS]

  his omnibus in the waiting room and I've [TS]

  read the entire thing while waiting for [TS]

  it and good way to pass the time it was [TS]

  a great way to pass the time and because [TS]

  MacLeod is is the guy who wrote how did [TS]

  you know understand comics exactly it [TS]

  was fascinating to see what he was [TS]

  putting into practice in his own book as [TS]

  well so i think i just to be obscure [TS]

  although you probably have read this i'm [TS]

  going to say what you should read is [TS]

  micronauts 1 through 12 by Bill man [TS]

  alone Michael golden from the late [TS]

  seventies the most delightful example of [TS]

  how you can take a star wars ripoff [TS]

  based on a toy and make it something [TS]

  that actually is among my favorite [TS]

  things in the entire medium so he might [TS]

  that's my hand on my pile to read [TS]

  yeah it is it isn't available in the [TS]

  trade what I have two morrow 10 because [TS]

  the rights have been completely messed [TS]

  up it's available [TS]

  it's available on on computers & ipad [TS]

  that's k & and I actually i have these [TS]

  but the Marvel reprinted a fine issue on [TS]

  high-quality paper recolored watercolor [TS]

  recolor of the first 12 issues a special [TS]

  edition and I have that [TS]

  actually on my bookshelf and I will [TS]

  bring it in and Lexi because of [TS]

  licensing issues there currently is no [TS]

  legitimate way to buy a collection right [TS]

  of the Micronauts right and in fact that [TS]

  is why i downloaded i'm also that's why [TS]

  i downloaded the migrants bit torn i [TS]

  have all the flimsy issues but quite [TS]

  frankly they're in a box under a box [TS]

  under the rocks and micro i'm reading [TS]

  rom right last night also [TS]

  that's my girl that's built low and sal [TS]

  buscema didn't want to know those were [TS]

  those great to kind of toy tions that I [TS]

  think far surpass her and outlived their [TS]

  toy antecedence yeah there's a rom was [TS]

  75 issues and a bunch of annuals and [TS]

  people still talk about Rob yeah message [TS]

  board and it's not available because of [TS]

  the rice and always Harker brothers i [TS]

  think is that one and then the Abrams [TS]

  Gentile entertainment that have tried to [TS]

  relicense micronauts a million times and [TS]

  Marvel actually did to issues of microns [TS]

  reboot before the writer and artist [TS]

  discovered that the talks have broken [TS]

  down and that they weren't able to [TS]

  publish them and so yeah but anyway that [TS]

  first run of the the first 12 issues [TS]

  that's a huge fun and you can see the [TS]

  star wars influences and you can see [TS]

  them trying to find ways to get these [TS]

  toys in but not happen be toys just and [TS]

  as a seven-year-old basically right that [TS]

  was the thing that was my know if we [TS]

  don't like to star wars comic books for [TS]

  those are classic seventies Marvel style [TS]

  storing yeah which and Michael golden [TS]

  doesn't get enough credit Jim medow [TS]

  detection for Marvel from the seventies [TS]

  were all the rage that right yeah grew [TS]

  up reading it in the late 70s early [TS]

  nineties half icy hot but I don't didn't [TS]

  happen for me because watchman was [TS]

  published and then I went away right [TS]

  then you missed it you missed the entire [TS]

  rob liefeld era i had a friend who [TS]

  should be a better man I mean I said [TS]

  let's not make our own guy he's really [TS]

  popular and I looked at the Todd [TS]

  McFarlane's spider-man I was like yes so [TS]

  glad i'm not buying comics anymore right [TS]

  having lived through the nineties comics [TS]

  but there was so many at three years [TS]

  where I would go to the comic store and [TS]

  every wednesday and get walk out with [TS]

  nothing very sad it was a depressing [TS]

  dark time and then I picked up on a whim [TS]

  in this comic store in in boerum hill in [TS]

  Brooklyn a chris where acne novelty [TS]

  library number three and that just [TS]

  opened the entire world of like indie [TS]

  comics [TS]

  me would sort of saved the 1980 comics [TS]

  used to be lame i'm with it again yeah [TS]

  with people who can do make sure about [TS]

  this and and spend for another time that [TS]

  it used to be a used to be lame I mean [TS]

  ever i bought John sable freelance by my [TS]

  grill and it was pretty good [TS]

  red star was jim Starlin owned it and [TS]

  that was pretty cool but that was not [TS]

  and you know there was your health [TS]

  quests and you're you know you you make [TS]

  fun of the elf question in HealthQuest [TS]

  got me through 10th grade well I believe [TS]

  it you know I by tenth grade English [TS]

  class was so boring that my friends I [TS]

  would pass around our issues of health [TS]

  quest and and go back to it and it it's [TS]

  tyrone we bad i'll admit that i'll be [TS]

  it's like don bluth put to paper home [TS]

  and get sauced Erica long way [TS]

  yeah and it actually you know I have a [TS]

  nice dream well yeah at the time you [TS]

  know what you would you would never get [TS]

  any an indie comic like invincible which [TS]

  is essentially a marvel comic except in [TS]

  its own universe and that's so great [TS]

  because it's freed from all of that [TS]

  stuff but it's still that kind of tone [TS]

  which I grew up with and I love you so [TS]

  but before we go I will say following on [TS]

  my recommendation of micro not something [TS]

  that you can get when you talk about us [TS]

  being children of the seventies of [TS]

  comics so are many of the creators out [TS]

  there now which is why you start to see [TS]

  those echoes and I i have the hardcover [TS]

  of Planet Hulk which is by a guy named [TS]

  Greg Pak planet hulk is so rife with [TS]

  references and ama jizz to the [TS]

  Micronauts especially those first 12 [TS]

  issues that when i first read it I I i [TS]

  was so excited I was like pacing around [TS]

  my house because it's like oh my god [TS]

  somebody else remembers the microphones [TS]

  and they're gonna come and he's inviting [TS]

  residents and it's hilarious good it's [TS]

  it's true every night and every actual [TS]

  characters that are that are are clearly [TS]

  analogues of itself my that would be my [TS]

  secondary recommendation that is [TS]

  available widely and is a nice [TS]

  self-contained story and I didn't really [TS]

  related to the rest of the Hulk mythos [TS]

  it's just kind of a what if there was a [TS]

  big strong guy dropped down on the [TS]

  planet and then things happen all right [TS]

  well then I guess until next time i'd [TS]

  like to thank jason reitman thank you [TS]

  and.and please miser thank you for [TS]

  having me I'm Jason snow please join us [TS]

  next time [TS]

  knows what the topic will be but we hope [TS]

  you enjoyed it [TS]

  for more information about this podcast [TS]

  www.example.com [TS]