The Incomparable

297: The Ohm Whisperer


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  incomparable number 297 April 2060 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable this is one of our episodes [TS]

  where we are walking through all of the [TS]

  films of hayao miyazaki the great [TS]

  japanese animation director we have [TS]

  talked about of course kiki's delivery [TS]

  service and my neighbor totoro we are [TS]

  talking in this episode about nineteen [TS]

  eighty-four years [TS]

  Masika of the valley of the wind now [TS]

  again we did back when the incomparable [TS]

  hadn't done almost 300 episodes and we [TS]

  thought we could do like all of the joss [TS]

  whedon TV shows in one episode we did an [TS]

  episode about miyazaki yeah i thought we [TS]

  were young and stupid test an episode [TS]

  and we talked about it briefly then but [TS]

  now we're going back because you know [TS]

  these podcasts are going to post [TS]

  themselves and we're gonna talk about [TS]

  them individually you know a couple [TS]

  years so an Oscar the valley of the wind [TS]

  is what we talked about this time let me [TS]

  tell you who's on the miyazaki club [TS]

  you heard him he's complaining already [TS]

  it's steve lots hi Steve I'm not [TS]

  complaining I'm just pointing out how [TS]

  doubt naive we were to think we could [TS]

  get through such fine works in yeah it's [TS]

  help [TS]

  it's true also this nut tastes really [TS]

  weird that's my favorite line i wrote [TS]

  again from this movie this nut tastes [TS]

  really weird Eric and sign was laughing [TS]

  head strange notes about the taste of [TS]

  nuts [TS]

  hi hello I'm happy you finally got into [TS]

  my favorite miyazaki movie [TS]

  oh very nice admittedly actually seen [TS]

  that many of them so maybe it's a [TS]

  slightly skewed sample all right Colleen [TS]

  Sims is also out there hello and welcome [TS]

  to miyazaki club i think there are more [TS]

  seeds the nuts and I don't know it [TS]

  looked like couscous or something where [TS]

  I know he just in the end he says this [TS]

  not taste really weird [TS]

  yes she said it's not it's good for you [TS]

  because it right okay interesting [TS]

  exchange good he can eat a boot full of [TS]

  them [TS]

  I and wouldn't be miyazaki club without [TS]

  John siracusa hello i'm assuming we'll [TS]

  all get our own fox squirrels at the end [TS]

  of this episode my yarn over here [TS]

  yeah i'm looking forward to the fox [TS]

  squirrels appearance in the upcoming [TS]

  Ratchet and Clank movie 20 years [TS]

  I'm with yes ok he looks just like [TS]

  ratchet our client rather know Rachel [TS]

  whatever so 1984 it's a it's not secure [TS]

  its postapocalyptic barren want to [TS]

  bugs there are some ostriches that are [TS]

  written here let me let me just do the [TS]

  opening [TS]

  I know it's gonna seem like this you're [TS]

  gonna do everything step-by-step i'm not [TS]

  i just want to say a few words about the [TS]

  very you know we've done the credits and [TS]

  it's that the opening sequence so John [TS]

  this is not an opening statement is a [TS]

  statement about the opening right [TS]

  exactly like yeah you're not gonna it's [TS]

  not like we're not going to an opening [TS]

  statement to a good fellows and go [TS]

  through this thing has seen a time but I [TS]

  feel like the way this movie opens is [TS]

  just so so wonderful starting from the [TS]

  credits of here to talk about with this [TS]

  sort of the backstory given to you in a [TS]

  compressed way with the beautiful mural [TS]

  murals changing to the the live-action [TS]

  corporate you know animation of a [TS]

  present-day I'm racinos ago flying if [TS]

  you've seen the movie before you know it [TS]

  is on little flying wind wing and she [TS]

  lands and she's wandering through this [TS]

  weird looking at you know forest or [TS]

  jungle or whatever her face is entirely [TS]

  covered something that they did and uh [TS]

  and the force awakens as well [TS]

  goggles mask everything you can't even [TS]

  tell anything about this person and they [TS]

  do like a slow reveal where eventually [TS]

  she pulls up the goggles and you can see [TS]

  her eyes and she does some more stuff [TS]

  and then yeah she's there with the quiet [TS]

  moment on top of the home shell which is [TS]

  yet another instance of my my emblematic [TS]

  of all the anime that I like possibly [TS]

  emblematic of all anime moment where [TS]

  it's a quiet moment where she is sitting [TS]

  under the Home shell and the the spores [TS]

  which was like snow we're just falling [TS]

  and it is dead silent and there's me and [TS]

  you can choose which is just watching [TS]

  the stuff all that is in the same slot [TS]

  as looking up through the water droplets [TS]

  in your diving goggles in ghost in the [TS]

  shell or Kiki sitting on the hill [TS]

  listening to the radio with the wind [TS]

  blowing at them in the beginning of [TS]

  kiki's delivery service that everything [TS]

  we had like seat has to have that moment [TS]

  where it's quiet reflection no music no [TS]

  sound effects and some beautiful scene [TS]

  involving nature and of course she hears [TS]

  the you know thing going on and goes off [TS]

  to to save Lord yuba which is our first [TS]

  major act in the movie aside from [TS]

  finding the shell is saving this of this [TS]

  old guy who supposedly the world's best [TS]

  swordsman and then at the end of that [TS]

  scene you finally get the full reveal of [TS]

  not just her eyes but her entire face [TS]

  and her hair and she sort of exuberantly [TS]

  tears off her mask and runs over and [TS]

  give them a big [TS]

  ugh i think that whole intro of leading [TS]

  you into who this character is bit by [TS]

  bit while showing you that for the rest [TS]

  of this movie [TS]

  not only will she be the center of it [TS]

  she's got her name in the title after [TS]

  all but she will be driving the action [TS]

  like she does things it everything that [TS]

  happens in this movie that has any [TS]

  consequences because of her for the most [TS]

  part and she started throwing out right [TS]

  away of like I'm going to go I'm gonna [TS]

  find the shell I'm gonna save this [TS]

  character i'm going to bring this fox [TS]

  world home and that's one of the things [TS]

  i love about this movie and one of the [TS]

  reasons i was one of the first [TS]

  Miyazaki's i showed my children even [TS]

  though there are you know a couple of [TS]

  rough / scary parts where they were [TS]

  scared of the bugs for a little bit is [TS]

  because it shows in a matter-of-fact way [TS]

  a unconventional character being [TS]

  essentially a conventional hero without [TS]

  making a big deal about it [TS]

  I do kind of love that that she is [TS]

  revealed so slowly at the beginning that [TS]

  you don't really know open who she is or [TS]

  her age which I guess her age maybe a [TS]

  little iffy overall even by the end of [TS]

  the movie but but yeah that it's not [TS]

  revealed you don't quite get an idea of [TS]

  how young she is I don't think she's [TS]

  young and she sounds until until quite a [TS]

  later on and what you're really seeing [TS]

  is how capable and competent she is this [TS]

  is a character who truly kicks ass and I [TS]

  mean you know it's not to the point [TS]

  where she's being a killing the hell out [TS]

  of guys left and right yet but we're [TS]

  still seeing her be pretty awesome at [TS]

  the beginning [TS]

  yeah that's that's one of the first [TS]

  things that I appreciated about the [TS]

  movie and because it's been a few years [TS]

  since i've watched it like since my [TS]

  husband and I got together in 2007 it's [TS]

  a long time and and so I didn't remember [TS]

  a lot of it and she's prepared like [TS]

  she's prepared and she's smart and she's [TS]

  resourceful and you can tell that like [TS]

  we don't have the story on her yet but [TS]

  we can tell that people depend on her to [TS]

  do things like all right in the first I [TS]

  don't know three minutes and and I think [TS]

  that's pretty amazing and that's one of [TS]

  the things that Miyazaki does so well is [TS]

  establishing a strong female characters [TS]

  immediately are almost immediately [TS]

  yeah you get to see her taking the the [TS]

  Gunpowder out of a show [TS]

  sprinkle it around to be able to break [TS]

  that home sweetie Mythbusters on that [TS]

  because I said I wouldn't work [TS]

  Mythbusters get yourself items LOL [TS]

  Michelle I'm sure yeah [TS]

  step 1 I think hotels are extra [TS]

  susceptible to the particular type of [TS]

  gun powder that they use in the [TS]

  post-apocalyptic few miles ahead Kevin [TS]

  very nice [TS]

  yeah so the the other angle on her being [TS]

  a person of action and like you know [TS]

  she's doing things she's not that she is [TS]

  driving the plot is that the the thing [TS]

  that she does saving this this great [TS]

  swordsman because he was in trouble and [TS]

  she saves him again all matter of fact [TS]

  she saves him like this movie emphasizes [TS]

  many many many times that heroism does [TS]

  not equal quote-unquote manliness right [TS]

  she doesn't kill the ohm ok that's not [TS]

  how she achieves victory over over the [TS]

  the in section that the job to be nice [TS]

  to save the person she resolves the [TS]

  conflict by calming leone down right and [TS]

  sending him back into the same thing [TS]

  with with the fox squirrel the Fox [TS]

  world's cute she wants to pet it it you [TS]

  know it's freaking out it's scared and [TS]

  bites her she resolves that conflict not [TS]

  by teaching the fox squirrel who's boss [TS]

  or having the Fox girl come to respect [TS]

  her as the you know the alpha or [TS]

  whatever she does it by calming and it's [TS]

  not again [TS]

  they don't hit you over the head with it [TS]

  but almost every conflict but it with [TS]

  her interaction in that conflict is to [TS]

  try to do something good which is the [TS]

  good guy right try to save people say [TS]

  people who might even be your enemy or [TS]

  whatever and to resolve conflict [TS]

  conflict between people who are acting [TS]

  out of fear and she is [TS]

  I mean it's not that she doesn't have [TS]

  fear she has a GS fear she has anger but [TS]

  she's always trying to de-escalate and I [TS]

  and that's the other thing about this is [TS]

  like she has put in normal situations [TS]

  and she has to be the hero but she [TS]

  doesn't do the stereotypical like [TS]

  physical dominance manly macho solution [TS]

  to these problems she is not a killing [TS]

  machine she's not even the world's best [TS]

  swordsman she can barely lift the sword [TS]

  that she uses an anger later in the [TS]

  movie actually she's a pretty solid [TS]

  killing machine [TS]

  yeah traditional three is you just shied [TS]

  away from it because she doesn't want to [TS]

  be a killer which I think if it even [TS]

  more admirable than not being able to do [TS]

  in the first place she wanted the only [TS]

  problem that I have with the characters [TS]

  she's almost too competent he never [TS]

  really makes a misstep I'm the closest [TS]

  thing to a mr. [TS]

  is that she gets a little overwrought i [TS]

  guess you could say when her father is [TS]

  killed and she kills a bunch of dudes [TS]

  and then she realizes that was a mistake [TS]

  but I mean almost every choice she makes [TS]

  is the right choice in this film but not [TS]

  not obviously so because there's a [TS]

  particular scene later and then when [TS]

  she's taken hostage like she's going to [TS]

  be one of the volunteer hostages or [TS]

  whatever and all the little girls in the [TS]

  village like oh no don't go we look up [TS]

  to you so on and so forth right and [TS]

  she's like oh it's okay i'll be back in [TS]

  she's calming them down that's when they [TS]

  give her the bad to bring her there sack [TS]

  of nuts yes right and they go so well [TS]

  thing and she's all smiles and then she [TS]

  gets on the plane and the music cue when [TS]

  she gets onto that plane is the most [TS]

  discordant note in the entire movie and [TS]

  you realize she's putting a brave face [TS]

  on this but she understands and all the [TS]

  adults understanding you the viewer now [TS]

  meant understand that most likely she's [TS]

  not coming back she's gonna be dead like [TS]

  or everyone the villagers can be there [TS]

  she's gonna be that if you're never [TS]

  going to see anyone again so it's not as [TS]

  if she glides through this movie as if [TS]

  the victory is certain and they try to [TS]

  emphasize that by saying things are [TS]

  going badly and she's putting a brave [TS]

  face on it but she understands this is [TS]

  what the situation is now she's she's [TS]

  able to you know endure but she's a very [TS]

  sort of she has a lot of perseverance [TS]

  and and gusto and she's and I have a [TS]

  tight and I have a day of however young [TS]

  she is but she has a dark moments to [TS]

  when she's down there in her little [TS]

  thing with her with her weird little [TS]

  plants and she understands that things [TS]

  are going badly for her whole valley and [TS]

  chances are everybody she knows [TS]

  including herself could soon be dead [TS]

  yeah I I actually like the fact that she [TS]

  is so near infallible in this movie [TS]

  because it's just it is a joy for me to [TS]

  watch it and I'd like sometimes I just [TS]

  like a little bit of escapism and [TS]

  escapism for me at its best is where I [TS]

  have something like this where there's a [TS]

  character who you know sometimes bad [TS]

  things happen to them but it comes out [TS]

  all right in the end and there's [TS]

  somebody that can really identify with [TS]

  and and feel good about identifying with [TS]

  because they're they're doing the right [TS]

  thing pretty much all the time and that [TS]

  the dark moments she has are really more [TS]

  of self doubt and fear of the future and [TS]

  that is something that i think probably [TS]

  everybody can relate to i know i [TS]

  certainly can [TS]

  so so that the dark patches that she has [TS]

  to go through our things that [TS]

  a little bit more relatable to me then [TS]

  making a choice that goes really poorly [TS]

  for her kingdom because you know I'm not [TS]

  a princess does she have to be princess [TS]

  by the way that was one of the things i [TS]

  was thinking is like princesses [TS]

  apparently all the women in the story [TS]

  princesses that gets the car question [TS]

  that I have towards the middle of my [TS]

  notes here that we can address any time [TS]

  which is the the central question this [TS]

  movie does nozzle live in a patriarchy [TS]

  yeah I don't know I don't know I just [TS]

  had that Disney Princess moment of like [TS]

  well of course she's great and she's a [TS]

  princess but I'm not sure she needs to [TS]

  be at any point in the story other than [TS]

  fact that she's in her father gets [TS]

  killed but I mean I'm not sure that was [TS]

  I just it seemed to me like almost like [TS]

  extra that wasn't didn't need to be [TS]

  there that she was oh she's not only all [TS]

  these great things but yes of course [TS]

  she's also the princess [TS]

  why don't necessarily marks her as as [TS]

  inferior so much as if it just points [TS]

  out the fact that she's kind of a leader [TS]

  amongst your people as is Keshawn is a [TS]

  is a princess as well right I'm gonna [TS]

  tell usually a leader like that's what [TS]

  I'm saying like it in the movie [TS]

  obviously nautical thinks of herself as [TS]

  just another person but how does [TS]

  everyone else treat how it is she living [TS]

  in a world that is essentially the to [TS]

  treat women as lesser look at all the [TS]

  other women and in their village what [TS]

  are they doing what are their jobs [TS]

  what is their role in the society [TS]

  obviously she's the daughter of the king [TS]

  and so she's an important person she is [TS]

  respected and of course people respect [TS]

  and look up to her [TS]

  mostly because she's a good person but [TS]

  at various points in the movie like when [TS]

  the plane crashes and they're like [TS]

  everyone to the the plane crash site [TS]

  even the boy is gonna blow my nose isn't [TS]

  all hands on deck to help rescue no one [TS]

  considers having the women company later [TS]

  the way you know the women they're all [TS]

  they're not in like you know that [TS]

  headscarves are covered mostly covered [TS]

  up and they're mostly carrying around [TS]

  food or children and yet here's nautica [TS]

  living in this world which is not a [TS]

  world where it's like oh we're all equal [TS]

  here and we have lots of people in this [TS]

  village were just like nautica she is [TS]

  sort of out of I feel like she is out of [TS]

  step with the sort of rebuilding feudal [TS]

  society that is coming from the ashes of [TS]

  the world and she's essentially living [TS]

  in a typical disney princess world but [TS]

  she is not conforming to the disney [TS]

  princess stereotype and for the most [TS]

  part the other people in her village the [TS]

  village let her get away with it like we [TS]

  don't see anyone [TS]

  pooping her are trying to keep her down [TS]

  like they encourage her to do things [TS]

  but every other woman I say is I I don't [TS]

  feel like she needs to be a princess [TS]

  feel like it's like oh and on top of her [TS]

  being this amazing person who goes out [TS]

  into the waste lands and salvages things [TS]

  from the own which are your it's funny [TS]

  that you mentioned ray and star wars [TS]

  because boy that it really is quite [TS]

  similar isn't it mom [TS]

  they that she oh and did I mention she's [TS]

  also the princess of the valley it's [TS]

  like really she needs to be that that [TS]

  was my only point is like she's so [TS]

  awesome as it is it's like of course [TS]

  she's also the princess she's got all [TS]

  the things I me maybe to get in a little [TS]

  bit tense deeper i think perhaps what [TS]

  John was saying actually leads to what [TS]

  you're saying Jason the fact that this [TS]

  is sort of a patriarchy and it really [TS]

  does seem to be I mean you also get the [TS]

  scene later where she is saved by the [TS]

  women of the sheet society who are [TS]

  trapped you know together it's just [TS]

  women and children right now [TS]

  yeah so the fact that she is her [TS]

  father's daughter that she is the [TS]

  princess of the town means that she has [TS]

  had the freedom to develop all of these [TS]

  cool skills and run away on her glider [TS]

  and explore the forest and and all that [TS]

  kind of stuff [TS]

  perhaps if she wasn't a princess she [TS]

  would have gotten to do any of that [TS]

  stuff we wouldn't have a movie on first [TS]

  that's true and also her being used as a [TS]

  hostage right it makes sense as a as a [TS]

  even her father is killed here makes [TS]

  sense that you that's what happens [TS]

  oftentimes to the the girl children of [TS]

  royalty in these sorts of situations [TS]

  right as they they're the ones who end [TS]

  up being used as the hostages so she has [TS]

  chosen to go off with the other hostages [TS]

  at that point in the movement but all [TS]

  the other hostages are men like if you [TS]

  look at there are no other women dressed [TS]

  like she is in her village where all the [TS]

  other women dressed in these sort of [TS]

  like house dresses and there are there [TS]

  interfer out in the fields or whatever [TS]

  she is dressed not necessarily like a [TS]

  man but unique now again she's the hero [TS]

  of the movie she's going to stand out so [TS]

  on and so forth but she is [TS]

  I like that because the way she acts is [TS]

  it is it setting an example of saying [TS]

  you may live in a society that is [TS]

  regressive or backwards which makes [TS]

  sense because you know the world was [TS]

  destroyed thousand years ago and you're [TS]

  just rebuilding Society and you know [TS]

  it's a monarchy and there's you know [TS]

  hereditary rule and now that your father [TS]

  the first thing they do when they go [TS]

  there they run right up and kill the [TS]

  King guy because the whole idea ask [TS]

  and the guys in charge and you gotta cut [TS]

  you know sever the head and that that [TS]

  would essentially end and her chances of [TS]

  you know even if it she survived that [TS]

  she's not going to be in charge of [TS]

  anything anymore right because the yet [TS]

  when taking notes the father is killed [TS]

  it's not like she's going to take over [TS]

  because you can have a woman in charge [TS]

  but she is so out of step with that and [TS]

  that's that's something i like it and [TS]

  these kind of movies I like to feel like [TS]

  you [TS]

  not that it's realistic is all made up [TS]

  fantasy stuff but like to show an unjust [TS]

  world and someone overcoming that rather [TS]

  than showing like Oh everybody's all [TS]

  equal and that's why we can have all [TS]

  these heroes who are on conventional to [TS]

  show here's an unconventional hero who [TS]

  is forced to live who has found a way [TS]

  somehow to do this great thing and you [TS]

  know maybe it's like a you know like you [TS]

  said escape is in fantasy found a way to [TS]

  be like this seemingly against all odds [TS]

  within a society that is even more sort [TS]

  of backwards than the one you're [TS]

  currently living in I don't know how [TS]

  much it make up there at least the [TS]

  valley of the wind being backwards [TS]

  because it's clear that once Geale is [TS]

  dead that they all look to her as the [TS]

  under the men and the women both well [TS]

  she's great at everything well she's [TS]

  great at everything that's true but the [TS]

  other princesses is in charge of the [TS]

  officer kind of only gets to freelance [TS]

  when she's not around so she's yeah [TS]

  right i mean it clear that these [TS]

  societies have formed in a traditional [TS]

  patriarchal way and that there's a [TS]

  division of labor and the men are the [TS]

  ones doing the heavy lifting the hard [TS]

  labor the same thing with sean i think i [TS]

  did the woman with the armor and [TS]

  everything comes she and that's another [TS]

  miyazaki drop of having having the big [TS]

  bad be a woman to but again she is [TS]

  clearly an exception like it's an army [TS]

  full of men she's leading men or second [TS]

  command is a man in the only reason [TS]

  she's in charge because she's so [TS]

  exceptional exceptional she's royal [TS]

  right i think i think that this is the [TS]

  case where the royalty part goes above [TS]

  the whose and you know many men and [TS]

  women part right it will first is [TS]

  royalty and then there's men and then [TS]

  there's women and so she's royalty and [TS]

  so she's up on apartment on the top and [TS]

  she's really good at what she does and [TS]

  she is now clearly been through a lot [TS]

  and and survived LOL you know one of her [TS]

  only comments about that is the fact [TS]

  that the you know whoever she takes as a [TS]

  husband eventually it's going to see [TS]

  worse [TS]

  that's where the attitudes of the [TS]

  scriptwriters sneak through and [TS]

  we're little ways like there are always [TS]

  those little comments you like but that [TS]

  doesn't seem to fit all but that was [TS]

  taken is so conventional that it would [TS]

  never you know in like you two years [TS]

  passed and you realize that so that's a [TS]

  weird [TS]

  that's a weird way to frame that what [TS]

  she really is that how she would frame [TS]

  this i don't think the character would [TS]

  but the man who is writing the character [TS]

  certainly did [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  let's take a break so i can tell you [TS]

  about our sponsor on this week's episode [TS]

  it is I now I've said this [TS]

  before we took a hike with my son and my [TS]

  wife one take a picture of herself with [TS]

  my son and they did a little selfie pose [TS]

  and it was funny he was kind of driving [TS]

  around like no no I want to have my [TS]

  picture taken joking around and the [TS]

  phone dropped and it was in a protective [TS]

  case didn't matter it landed on a rock [TS]

  and the screen shattered it can happen [TS]

  to you too [TS]

  it is tragedy when you scream shatters [TS]

  what if you're so busy that you just [TS]

  don't know when you're going to get that [TS]

  screen repaired well guess what I [TS]

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  your office at a coffee shop wherever [TS]

  they will work around your busy schedule [TS]

  to power a network of more than 5,000 [TS]

  on-demand phone repair technicians in [TS]

  six hundred or more cities in 600 in [TS]

  more than 600 cities across the United [TS]

  States all the technicians are [TS]

  rigorously trained and background [TS]

  checked and I is providing a [TS]

  special offer for incomparable listeners [TS]

  you can get a free tempered glass screen [TS]

  protector that will be installed along [TS]

  with your on-demand repair that's right [TS]

  you get extra protection so it may be [TS]

  won't happen again [TS]

  you can request for repair any time just [TS]

  save this for when the moment is right [TS]

  and something horrible has happened to [TS]

  your device go to I / smell [TS]

  that's I / smell thank you i [TS]

  crack for sponsoring this week's and [TS]

  comfortable [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  in the opening sequence at the first few [TS]

  scenes the movie where she's out in the [TS]

  desert and and end in the and then she [TS]

  finds the shell and she charms the ohm [TS]

  who's angry and past the red eyes and [TS]

  all of that there is a whole lot of [TS]

  dialogue of one person talking to nobody [TS]

  explaining everything that happens and [TS]

  that I I feel like for all the strength [TS]

  of the visuals of that part of the movie [TS]

  and the world-building I think it's [TS]

  really interesting and and like the bugs [TS]

  just 20 my fascinate I could kind of [TS]

  watch [TS]

  I kind of want a screensaver of just the [TS]

  ohms just kinda like zipping along [TS]

  because it's they're fascinating but the [TS]

  dialogue is like just yeah I I moment I [TS]

  found it really painful like we're just [TS]

  gonna dump all of this out without you [TS]

  i'm just a character talking to the air [TS]

  hey let me tell you about the life that [TS]

  I'm leaving and I thought that was that [TS]

  was not so not so strong [TS]

  yeah I don't know the progeny of this [TS]

  film whether it started as a manga or [TS]

  did what [TS]

  but yeah that makes a lot of sense [TS]

  because there's so much unexplored [TS]

  backstory in this thing it feels like [TS]

  much longer source material like a like [TS]

  an entire set of manga I don't know what [TS]

  they called series in that particular [TS]

  form but or our full season of a TV [TS]

  series that just got compressed down [TS]

  into movie length and it's just that [TS]

  there's so many unanswered questions and [TS]

  I don't think there's any way to [TS]

  approach it i guess other than to dump [TS]

  it all at the front [TS]

  nobody needs that they need to establish [TS]

  the minimum i think they did they did a [TS]

  really good job of not overdoing it in [TS]

  terms of like how many lines are there [TS]

  and how much space is there between [TS]

  there is the whole opening which is [TS]

  almost speech three but they do have to [TS]

  get a few points that you have to [TS]

  understand that this place is poison if [TS]

  you breathe you'll die because that's [TS]

  going to become important later for the [TS]

  plot you have to understand that these [TS]

  things are big bugs and that they're not [TS]

  necessarily enemies of the humans but [TS]

  there are you know skittish and if you [TS]

  mess with them you're gonna get killed [TS]

  and you have to understand that the [TS]

  valley is protected from everything [TS]

  that's happened by the wind and other [TS]

  stuff and they need to get that out some [TS]

  way and they they get most of the [TS]

  backstory and the sort of the equivalent [TS]

  of the kraal which is this terrible [TS]

  narration and and [TS]

  tub and a wall text but you having your [TS]

  talk to yourself not the most artful way [TS]

  to do it but she's not monologuing [TS]

  non-stop she you know especially if you [TS]

  see the time gap she says if you think [TS]

  to yourself then does stuff then set [TS]

  anything on the shelf for a while and [TS]

  looks around then [TS]

  then listen for a sound that you heard [TS]

  that runs over there and it's it's not [TS]

  the best but I've definitely seen worse [TS]

  and because it starts so slowly with the [TS]

  slow reveal and lots of not talking just [TS]

  looking at the world [TS]

  it never really bothered and sort of [TS]

  dogs the movie elsewhere too though I [TS]

  mean it's not just up at the front like [TS]

  she she falls through the sand into the [TS]

  forest and within 20 seconds from the [TS]

  reasons that is thrice the amount of the [TS]

  water and then they die and these [TS]

  crystals descend and it's all explained [TS]

  now [TS]

  yes and I have a chart of the ecosystem [TS]

  over here on the cave wall if you'd like [TS]

  to see it [TS]

  that feels like an entire like two or [TS]

  three episode arc or something you know [TS]

  that just got distilled down into its [TS]

  its thinnest essence [TS]

  yeah so we could get on to the next plot [TS]

  point they try to short-handed by saying [TS]

  this is like the sand in my room under [TS]

  the castle to try to say because she [TS]

  spent all that time there she [TS]

  understands this she makes the [TS]

  connection it's you know it's not a [TS]

  major point of the movie they just want [TS]

  to say oh she's figured out this is like [TS]

  that and that's you know this is just [TS]

  the the the the diametric opposite of [TS]

  the other miyazaki films that we've [TS]

  watched the like [TS]

  Kiki's and totoro where the plot is like [TS]

  this maybe 30 seconds of plot that's [TS]

  extended out to two hours and this is [TS]

  about seven days worth of plot that's [TS]

  scrunched down in two hours [TS]

  it's a very different experience it's [TS]

  like manoukian that there is this [TS]

  complicated plot and and you know [TS]

  different different factions or who are [TS]

  fighting over something and as the [TS]

  premise and there's the whole you know [TS]

  world problem they really it is a bigger [TS]

  story that they want to like you could [TS]

  you could have made this into three [TS]

  movies if you want it but yeah the [TS]

  longer i never read the comics either [TS]

  but that longer version is surely filled [TS]

  with much more detail about this but [TS]

  this is the like I feel like this is one [TS]

  of the most conventional stories [TS]

  Miyazaki has ever done because you could [TS]

  do a straight-up live actually origin of [TS]

  this and it is very straightforward it [TS]

  post-apocalyptic there's a story there [TS]

  is a beginning middle and end it there [TS]

  is no we're diversions [TS]

  there's no like you know where the hell [TS]

  is this even going and is this even a [TS]

  story is very very compact and lots of [TS]

  other movies I feel like riff on this [TS]

  and slowly start to tear apart this [TS]

  formula but this was just so has such a [TS]

  good bones I feel like that the the [TS]

  clumsiness of the expedition especially [TS]

  in the dub because then you can just [TS]

  like to read the subtitles and you [TS]

  definitely does bother you last has [TS]

  never probably because I always felt [TS]

  like this is this is movie shorthand [TS]

  that most movies always do and this [TS]

  movie is aimed at not children so much [TS]

  maybe teenagers so it's not trying to be [TS]

  adult and sophisticated in the same way [TS]

  that maybe you you would ask of a modern [TS]

  action movie i'm not really recapping [TS]

  the plot and there is a lot of it so we [TS]

  we have I feel like we covered a lot of [TS]

  this this is we got this initial post [TS]

  apocalyptic world there are lots of bugs [TS]

  there is the gnome shell and eastwood [TS]

  rides into town on an ostrich wearing a [TS]

  gas mask in leg warmer [TS]

  yeah it's not like we're in this movie [TS]

  are sweet the leg warmer game really hot [TS]

  okay so let's talk about the ages 4-18 [TS]

  for ya [TS]

  speak speak like warmer some of this [TS]

  music in this movie is beautiful i do [TS]

  have a note at one point where i wrote [TS]

  down music cues from 1984 where all the [TS]

  sudden this timeless story then suddenly [TS]

  there's a didn't do do do then i felt [TS]

  like i was playing a video game for a [TS]

  moment there yeah I have the phrase [TS]

  painfully eighties in mind yeah I if I [TS]

  have this phrase in my notes would say [TS]

  wonderfully eighties and it's a wonder [TS]

  why should qualify that it's the end of [TS]

  a note that says the music in this [TS]

  stands out more than the other [TS]

  Miyazaki's I've seen and the music and [TS]

  totoro and kikis are both great but here [TS]

  it's I i think it drives the action of [TS]

  the film in such a key way that I is it [TS]

  always joe hisaishi that the same guy [TS]

  does all this music which is [TS]

  mind-blowing if you think about think [TS]

  about the range between like the right [TS]

  I'm not so much in the eighties portions [TS]

  but in and some of the others where [TS]

  things are a little more majestic [TS]

  sounding and it's just that they're [TS]

  there are a couple of cues that reminded [TS]

  me of one of the Terminator the original [TS]

  terminator it's like as tall or quite [TS]

  frankly music from 1984 and what it was [TS]

  striking because so much of it is [TS]

  classic that the movie feels classical [TS]

  music field classic and [TS]

  then there are a couple of points where [TS]

  it is just suddenly this is a movie from [TS]

  1984 not 1985 1990 3 [TS]

  it's from 1984 right on the nose and you [TS]

  know it's all right it's all erased when [TS]

  they get to the small girl doing the [TS]

  lala part yes cast song that will never [TS]

  ever leave my head covers and in essence [TS]

  i saw this in 1995 I was really struck [TS]

  by their use of silence to play clear [TS]

  there's definitely that eighty cents [TS]

  sound all over the place but there are [TS]

  giant swathes where it's just silent and [TS]

  the dialogue and I was thinking if that [TS]

  were made today like if someone were to [TS]

  read rewrite the music for this there [TS]

  would not be so much quiet and I thought [TS]

  that was I don't know if that's like in [TS]

  1984 vs 2016 difference or if it was a [TS]

  very intentional stylistic choice at the [TS]

  time and but it was it was fascinating [TS]

  to me like we go through this whole [TS]

  dramatic scene where the ship the the [TS]

  airship is going down because it's been [TS]

  shot down and they're like gliding in a [TS]

  glider and trying to save you know [TS]

  trying to save the the other craft [TS]

  that's gliding along and it's just quiet [TS]

  it's not like dramatic music it's not [TS]

  you know it's not like peril [TS]

  it's just nothing is that Miyazaki thing [TS]

  John because that definitely has been in [TS]

  previous page and the other two that we [TS]

  wish i would say it's an anime thing [TS]

  where you drop out the music and usually [TS]

  with the dropping of the music for so [TS]

  you can hear whatever sound effect that [TS]

  that the the director or whoever is in [TS]

  creative control the film feels is most [TS]

  emblematic of this thing so when we do [TS]

  the next anime episode will be a similar [TS]

  type of thing but sometimes there's like [TS]

  are there many sounds going on the scene [TS]

  but the 1i want you to hear and [TS]

  concentrate on is the sound of the wind [TS]

  even though they would be sounds of [TS]

  engines and sounds of explosions or [TS]

  sounds of flames I want you to think [TS]

  about the sound of the wind right or [TS]

  when they cut out everything like later [TS]

  in the movie when they they had she's [TS]

  she's trying to convince the thing [TS]

  holding the baby home to not shoot her [TS]

  whatever there is music there and then [TS]

  our I figure one of the two scenes they [TS]

  do a slow mo thing and they cut out the [TS]

  muse [TS]

  and the sound effects but then they they [TS]

  bring you back in the whooshing because [TS]

  that's what they want you to feel as the [TS]

  publishing of her going past so usually [TS]

  the dropouts are you know for drama and [TS]

  most of the time with the exception of [TS]

  the one key where they really drop out [TS]

  everything because they want you to hold [TS]

  your breath when you see if she's gonna [TS]

  catch tambo right right [TS]

  they put they want it is usually nature [TS]

  sound basically and because they want [TS]

  you to think about think of when you [TS]

  were in a similar situation even though [TS]

  there was lots going on what is the one [TS]

  thing if they can you smell they would [TS]

  like what is the one thing that brings [TS]

  you back sense memory wise to a moment [TS]

  in your life that might have been like [TS]

  this or that evokes this particular [TS]

  encounter or senior setting or whatever [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah i like but we mentioned [TS]

  the silence at the beginning to end the [TS]

  wind again miyazaki we talking about [TS]

  wind sounds of wind i wanted to mention [TS]

  flying so i watch the wind rises wind in [TS]

  the title which is a recent miyazaki [TS]

  where he PT it's all about airplanes and [TS]

  making airplanes and dreams of flying [TS]

  and things like that and i was struck [TS]

  watching this about all the flying [TS]

  that's in this you've got that you've [TS]

  got the glider you've got the mechanics [TS]

  of like tethering the gliders to the the [TS]

  the powered craft you've got plant slow [TS]

  plane crashes and fast plane crashes and [TS]

  dogfights and clouds and dogfights not [TS]

  in clouds and I if I had to say there's [TS]

  a unifying thing about this movie above [TS]

  all else I mean you know it its action [TS]

  in the sky [TS]

  there's just a whole lot of action in [TS]

  the sky lot of bugs flying around and [TS]

  they're bugs lots of bugs miyazaki loves [TS]

  planes in case you have to figure this [TS]

  out every movie he's not the wind rises [TS]

  i know we love planes that I mean but [TS]

  that was like a career capper every one [TS]

  of his movies if you can find excuse to [TS]

  have a flying thing flying contraption a [TS]

  plaintiff sometimes it's uplands and [TS]

  girls on brooms but you know other times [TS]

  its planes yeah i mean just think of how [TS]

  geeky flies like a broom like there's [TS]

  nothing special about flying bicycle for [TS]

  instance right but but think of how [TS]

  think about he looks when she's flying [TS]

  how much cut how how much effort was put [TS]

  into make it look like flying on broom [TS]

  is not just you we talk about the TV [TS]

  show you don't just sit there and then [TS]

  it goes from point A to point B [TS]

  like it's a monorail right flying on a [TS]

  room looks looks dangerous and and [TS]

  skittish and like you're balancing on a [TS]

  wooden thing high above the sky he is [TS]

  obsessed with with flying machines and [TS]

  the idea of flying and it is in all of [TS]

  his movies [TS]

  this one yeah this one is like totally [TS]

  like the doodles of a middle schooler [TS]

  like I can make some of these plants [TS]

  like they're made of lead so how could [TS]

  that even fly that the planes a they [TS]

  look like bugs which is great because [TS]

  like you know the society would build [TS]

  flying things based their styling and [TS]

  design based on the things they see [TS]

  flying like the bugs and be just plain [TS]

  after playing 2 wings you know for wings [TS]

  wings in the back wings in the front [TS]

  round wing stubby wings the the [TS]

  unfolding wings of the gunship that the [TS]

  glider thing he just goes hog-wild yeah [TS]

  I i love the I loved all the plane stuff [TS]

  I thought I thought it was really upset [TS]

  i love actually I kinda love the [TS]

  destruction of it to that we have that [TS]

  we have that whole crash at the [TS]

  beginning or near the beginning right [TS]

  with a huge this huge ship that turns [TS]

  out is loaded down with this weapon and [TS]

  and she gets on her clyde er which is [TS]

  again her glider is one step away from [TS]

  being keys broom right she gets on her [TS]

  glider and she's like shouting turn and [TS]

  turn to the giant airship that's not [TS]

  gonna work it smashes it breaks into [TS]

  pieces the pieces rain down almost [TS]

  everybody's dead except for the one [TS]

  princess again [TS]

  boy it's all princesses who says one [TS]

  thing before she expires [TS]

  it's just it's spectacular she's [TS]

  mortally wounded they have they they try [TS]

  to get that across without showing his [TS]

  blood and guts for the idea she opens it [TS]

  up it's like it is here that you know [TS]

  i'm not a doctor but that's you're not [TS]

  gonna make it [TS]

  yeah she seems okay about that's the [TS]

  problem with it's like well you know [TS]

  your fatally wounded in a very gentle [TS]

  way but fatal trust wandering in a way [TS]

  that's visible as soon as we open your [TS]

  shirt but yeah mhm otherwise not that [TS]

  bad yeah yeah this movie is scary enough [TS]

  to young children don't think they need [TS]

  a door but they they do it later when [TS]

  you're her shoulder is sliced yeah and a [TS]

  shot as hell gore that I could imagine [TS]

  she was seeing under [TS]

  under the princess estelle or whatever [TS]

  name brother [TS]

  yeah well you have a light plane crash [TS]

  right i mean it presumably they're just [TS]

  like flaming and/or and bodies and [TS]

  pieces of bodies and wreckage and all [TS]

  this stuff but yeah we get to see the [TS]

  graves later but we don't actually see [TS]

  the bodies that they're putting into the [TS]

  scrapes right right but it's so it's [TS]

  spectacular in that that is one of the [TS]

  things that stuck with me for the last [TS]

  time I watched it and I i remember this [TS]

  i watch it again that and you get the [TS]

  dog fight in the with the clouds where [TS]

  they go into the cloud but and also by [TS]

  the way I don't think this is how storms [TS]

  work that there's like a cloud and it's [TS]

  puffy on the outside but inside it's [TS]

  really really bad so we're going to that [TS]

  castle in the sky program that is how [TS]

  storms work and i guess i mean it's like [TS]

  I thunderstorm I guess that's sort of [TS]

  how it works but it seems very much like [TS]

  it's just kind of a puffy cloud with bad [TS]

  stuff inside so you can go inside like [TS]

  structure to the wrath of khan basically [TS]

  you can go in or you can stay out those [TS]

  are your options you can choose and and [TS]

  where you want to fight but anyway I [TS]

  like the flying stuff being sake is [TS]

  obsessed with lying i think the collider [TS]

  is beautiful i love that they're [TS]

  different he's obviously thought of all [TS]

  the different ways you can fly her [TS]

  glider like you can fly it from below [TS]

  you can fly from above [TS]

  you know you could you've got like [TS]

  different ways you can do a two-person [TS]

  thing where one person lays on the on [TS]

  the board and one person's up in a [TS]

  little suspender strap thing here's how [TS]

  you landed you can also jump off of it [TS]

  while you're moving towards something [TS]

  and fly and and and crash into it which [TS]

  is a maneuver she uses late in the movie [TS]

  it's just falling with style [TS]

  there's a lot of lying yeah it's [TS]

  interesting to compare the animation of [TS]

  somebody who's super competent at flying [TS]

  with the keys animation where she's just [TS]

  awful added yeah but and both of them [TS]

  look dangerous like when she you know [TS]

  says oh can you can you bring the the oh [TS]

  my eyeball shell home it's really hard [TS]

  for me to fly with eventually ass off a [TS]

  cliff hanging to the bottom of water [TS]

  flips around the front of it to get onto [TS]

  it's like she's not really showing off [TS]

  but you're just like you watch you doing [TS]

  like maybe just all right now she's not [TS]

  weighed down with that things you can do [TS]

  the stop points but she's like a kid [TS]

  who's who's put a lot of time into Lake [TS]

  learning how to skateboard or you know [TS]

  whatever like she's you can tell like is [TS]

  very evident that she's put a lot of [TS]

  time into doing this and from that [TS]

  we can extrapolate even further that [TS]

  she's done a lot of exploring and and I [TS]

  think that's a really cool little detail [TS]

  that it's not you know it's one of those [TS]

  subtle things and that kind of speaks to [TS]

  who she is and what she does a lot more [TS]

  than you know that x position would be [TS]

  if it's like well this is my seventh day [TS]

  out this week and we have this [TS]

  experience we see her being an expert [TS]

  ya can't be safe on a skateboard mr. I [TS]

  should we talk about the fox squirrel we [TS]

  mentioned it go mentioned mention the [TS]

  fox squirrel earlier she gets a fox [TS]

  world the Fox who looks I i wrote down [TS]

  or pokemon one of those and jobs and it [TS]

  bites her and she doesn't really is a [TS]

  ratchet and then it hangs on her [TS]

  shoulder for the rest of it in fact at [TS]

  one point she's like been flung [TS]

  somewhere and has flung in the air and [TS]

  she's fallen to the ground she may be [TS]

  dead but he's still like hanging around [TS]

  by her which I thought was I thought was [TS]

  interesting he's very easy way to get [TS]

  down her shirt yeah clearly as her magic [TS]

  shirt that protects him from all over [TS]

  all injury in flames and antioxidants [TS]

  antioxidants right [TS]

  no he's he's he's very special anyway [TS]

  this is a mascot he doesn't talk like g [TS]

  like Gigi but yeah he's fanservice and [TS]

  he's there too busy cute and he's there [TS]

  to to reveal her character very early in [TS]

  the movie to show how you know that [TS]

  she's gonna let the thing by her and say [TS]

  see is no reason to be afraid and then [TS]

  he feels bad like your finger and it's [TS]

  adorable [TS]

  yeah he's there because it's an anime [TS]

  that's named slightly a children like [TS]

  it's just one of those things that's [TS]

  kind of required and is not many other [TS]

  there's not many other cute animals [TS]

  moving the body cute like even the [TS]

  babydome borderline right right now i [TS]

  love it i mean of all of the the many [TS]

  anime things I've seen with adorable [TS]

  animals i think it was probably my [TS]

  number one favorite foremost most cute [TS]

  and most the one that I would most like [TS]

  a stuffed like plush figure of for [TS]

  myself I have a little um almost I don't [TS]

  know if I'd say steampunk but I mean one [TS]

  of the vibes that I could have this [TS]

  movie too is that this is like dreams of [TS]

  Sky Pirates and stuff like that right [TS]

  its daring to in the high in the sky is [TS]

  and that's castle in the sky [TS]

  thing and we'll know what this really is [TS]

  it will it well music he's got enough to [TS]

  spare but you we get here we got that we [TS]

  got the board they're boarding the ships [TS]

  and she's flying around and I feel like [TS]

  that the fox squirrel on the shoulder [TS]

  thing it is a little like a pirate [TS]

  parrot it needs just gives her a little [TS]

  bit more of a like I'm a dashing like i [TS]

  am here and I also have a creature on my [TS]

  shoulder because I could do that i'm [TS]

  that cool so that gives us some cute [TS]

  moments like you see you know there's a [TS]

  shot of her that she's just lying down [TS]

  and then suddenly like he just pokes up [TS]

  out of her hair out of nowhere that [TS]

  those one of the most charming moments [TS]

  of the movie for me it's just cute and [TS]

  nobody reacts to it there's a dirty the [TS]

  moment worried emerges and NP she's [TS]

  talking to people and it's very serious [TS]

  and they're like nobodies like at [TS]

  there's an animal in your hair nope it's [TS]

  fine whatever get a fox squirrel they do [TS]

  that [TS]

  and speaking of genres that this movie [TS]

  evokes with the Pirates in the sky think [TS]

  it's definitely one but that the entire [TS]

  movie speaking of you know eighties and [TS]

  stuff is just as with so much anime is [TS]

  soaked in the the eighties Cold War [TS]

  mentality on top of the normal anime [TS]

  we're basically every Japanese animation [TS]

  is in some way that the subtext or theme [TS]

  is in some way related to nuclear bombs [TS]

  going off because Japan is the only [TS]

  country that has ever been nuked now in [TS]

  anger everything they make after that [TS]

  has if an anime think as it's an [TS]

  incredible extent so this thing the [TS]

  whole seven days of fire and the opening [TS]

  credits against we have the giants [TS]

  walking with the sticks the top of their [TS]

  heads are ICBM cones you know like it's [TS]

  it's not subtle at all [TS]

  you rarely is an anime subtle later in [TS]

  the movie will see a mushroom cloud [TS]

  surprises and weird for anime it's in [TS]

  every anime like you can't but that's [TS]

  this jar this is a post-apocalyptic one [TS]

  so of course they're gonna do that and [TS]

  this has the same totoro ask thing where [TS]

  you can choose to believe that these [TS]

  people thousand years later have [TS]

  conceptualized the seven days of fire as [TS]

  if they were giant cone headed people [TS]

  like smashing cities with their you know [TS]

  right but then later the movie you see [TS]

  one you like [TS]

  oh I guess they were actually people [TS]

  like that is it you don't like that is [TS]

  that sort of you depending on how you [TS]

  choose to to think of it like but it's [TS]

  but it's not it's not subtle in any way [TS]

  and [TS]

  the the overall kind of like what what [TS]

  other live action genre has been into I [TS]

  think it feels like a mad max-style [TS]

  thing you mentioned steampunk Mad Max [TS]

  and I had a big mac / when at one point [TS]

  the subtitles of knowledge is a no-go [TS]

  says who made such a terrible mess of [TS]

  the world and I do an immediate flash of [TS]

  Mad Max fury road who killed the world [TS]

  have that in my new my notes right here [TS]

  who killed the world i love that moment [TS]

  yeah hey Johnny I you don't wanna know [TS]

  about you you love post-apocalyptic [TS]

  movies i do and especially i love the [TS]

  eighties variety where nuclear war [TS]

  that's good old-fashioned apocalypse an [TS]

  old-timey about that's what that's what [TS]

  I grew up on dharna that's right let's [TS]

  analyze this is me I'm hot lips right [TS]

  and it would have been a nuke everything [TS]

  and everything will be gone and it's all [TS]

  about like humans using really big [TS]

  weapons and when everything's gone you [TS]

  get to wipe the slate clean and start [TS]

  over and you get to decide how that's [TS]

  going to look in this world looks like [TS]

  bugs yeah yeah i think it I think John [TS]

  and I have talked before about how we [TS]

  are both suckers fourth post apocalyptic [TS]

  stuff and I guess you know we already [TS]

  talked about the stand i think it [TS]

  diseases is my apocalypse but i also [TS]

  appreciate this cold war-style and that [TS]

  was I think what drew me to the movie in [TS]

  the first place the first time I saw it [TS]

  way back when I was in college and I [TS]

  just it was interesting to see [TS]

  especially at that time not knowing as [TS]

  much about anime to see the darkness of [TS]

  the post-apocalypse idea meshed with [TS]

  such a bright and generally cheerful [TS]

  kind of children's type film and the you [TS]

  know good kind of putting those two [TS]

  things together there's a little bit of [TS]

  a Frisian that really works for me as a [TS]

  viewer it's like taking you know two [TS]

  great tastes that I wouldn't have [TS]

  thought would taste great together but [TS]

  actually do and I sneak in is really [TS]

  grim moments like I've noticed this in [TS]

  the recent years that I hadn't noticed [TS]

  for the first many years I saw she's on [TS]

  the the watched that the ship where [TS]

  she's a captive and she gets saved by [TS]

  the women and they replace her in her [TS]

  cell and everything right and she did [TS]

  they smuggle her out with the dress and [TS]

  she goes into the room with the women [TS]

  and the children and I think there were [TS]

  some in there with him to like and what [TS]

  they have in that room when like the [TS]

  battle and Susan the thing what what [TS]

  they have in that room is they have a [TS]

  giant bomb so basically when those guys [TS]

  finally get through the door [TS]

  we're gonna set off this bomb and kill [TS]

  ourselves and them like that's they're [TS]

  basically using you know terrorist [TS]

  suicide last resort [TS]

  you're not going to take us live tax in [TS]

  the room with all the women and the [TS]

  children and it's it's in passing and it [TS]

  goes by quickly but you're like if you [TS]

  really think about what what life is [TS]

  like for the people living in this world [TS]

  it's pretty bad like your town is [TS]

  probably going to be swallowed up by the [TS]

  toxic jungle you could be killed at any [TS]

  time many people there's no real law to [TS]

  speak of its survival of the fittest the [TS]

  future of entire city's entire fairly [TS]

  large cities and people's and families [TS]

  at it is you know a moment away from [TS]

  being destroyed by so many things and [TS]

  everything is so grim that everyone in [TS]

  the room seems grimly determined to blow [TS]

  themselves up like like it's no big and [TS]

  she's just sort of like walking through [TS]

  this story and it's just think of how [TS]

  many people died you know it's this is [TS]

  not a nice world but it i guess it's [TS]

  normalized because they have never known [TS]

  any other way [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  a holy listeners episode three hundred [TS]

  the incomparable coming up and we want [TS]

  to get listeners involved as we did for [TS]

  episode 200 here is your mission if you [TS]

  have ever wanted to ask us a question [TS]

  podcast related or not now is your [TS]

  chance [TS]

  record yourself asking us the question [TS]

  now warning you will not be able to pick [TS]

  a specific panelist answer your question [TS]

  so try to keep them general and you can [TS]

  send us the audio via this URL go to [TS] / incomparable 300 you'll [TS]

  get a Dropbox submission form upload [TS]

  your audio there and we will consider it [TS]

  for use in episode three hundred which [TS]

  is coming very soon and one final tip [TS]

  you may want to visit the incomparable [TS]

  calm / shirt sometime next week we may [TS]

  have some shirts going back on sale so [TS]

  check that out [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I i have to say that this is that coming [TS]

  coming from the cold war-era if you [TS]

  described like a message movie from the [TS]

  mid eighties and or or let me put it [TS]

  another way if you'd said hey Jason [TS]

  imagine a message movie from the [TS]

  eighties what were the messages be i [TS]

  would probably say violence is bad [TS]

  protect the environment [TS]

  take care be nice to animals and protect [TS]

  the environment don't hurt each other [TS]

  people want two people want to destroy [TS]

  the world [TS]

  so you've got to fight against using [TS]

  yourself and and be yourself right [TS]

  I so I I had a few moments in this room [TS]

  like III get the drugs and don't just [TS]

  say no stay in school did I I just there [TS]

  are there are a few moments in here [TS]

  where it is so artfully done that I like [TS]

  it but at the same time this is uh what [TS]

  seems i think from the perspective of [TS]

  2016 kind of innocent in its take care [TS]

  of animals be nice to the environment [TS]

  and don't blow things up violently but [TS]

  that isn't sort of like those are the [TS]

  themes of this and it sort of sweet now [TS]

  when I think about it but again it did [TS]

  strike me as being a little bit [TS]

  reminiscent of sort of an after-school [TS]

  special [TS]

  and that's why i love it see all the [TS]

  other people in the movie all the other [TS]

  groups are not on that page [TS]

  none of those groups sort of learned the [TS]

  lessons that you were just of course not [TS]

  none of them really know them really [TS]

  learn oh hey we shouldn't use the super [TS]

  weapons during a few select individuals [TS]

  realize it but pretty much everyone else [TS]

  in this movie is trying to do what it [TS]

  takes to stay alive even if it involves [TS]

  killing the entire other city or kingdom [TS]

  or whatever even the people in her [TS]

  village are not really on the [TS]

  high-minded idea on now we've all [TS]

  learned that we shouldn't use super they [TS]

  don't get all these people out of their [TS]

  village they go back to their farming [TS]

  right and there it's not you know and [TS]

  they're willing to fight them for their [TS]

  not like oh there there is no one here [TS]

  espousing a pacifist philosophy there is [TS]

  no one here with high-minded ideals [TS]

  about the environment now [TS]

  miyazaki himself I don't put that in the [TS]

  eighties miyazaki himself is obsessed [TS]

  with like the environment and pollution [TS]

  that's a thread that runs through all [TS]

  the movies and gets more and more [TS]

  preaching about that as you go on even [TS]

  like in the the modern movies like [TS]

  spirited away [TS]

  he's gonna hammer that in the middle of [TS]

  the movie for like 10-15 minutes so you [TS]

  get it like a ponyo you know great about [TS]

  that the junction like ponyo that's [TS]

  that's him [TS]

  that is not that's not the eighties [TS]

  that's him he is big on we're destroying [TS]

  but in it but in the eighties this was [TS]

  these were the messages in the eighties [TS]

  I message of the eighties was we're all [TS]

  going to blow ourselves up if we don't [TS]

  be careful if we don't we don't get our [TS]

  heads together and realize that you know [TS]

  if escalation in a world where you have [TS]

  the 1i weapons to destroy the world will [TS]

  eventually end up with the world being [TS]

  destroyed that is totally the eighties [TS]

  theme and the theme of all those movies [TS]

  is we should not blow ourselves up and [TS]

  here's how easily we could do so if we [TS]

  just let a couple of hotheads being [TS]

  charged and have these weapons we should [TS]

  not blow ourselves up we shouldn't have [TS]

  these weapons that you know but [TS]

  Pandora's box is open so be real careful [TS]

  we don't blow ourselves up and yes that [TS]

  that was a lot of things but in this one [TS]

  I like the fact that that even at the [TS]

  end you get the idea that you know and [TS]

  also gonna need to learn this lesson she [TS]

  already knew it and everyone else didn't [TS]

  learn the lesson right there just gonna [TS]

  be like I would go back to our village [TS]

  and I was alive or whatever and this [TS]

  whole same thing will happen again and [TS]

  that's one of my questions on repeated [TS]

  viewings they they show a couple [TS]

  flashbacks of the own like every time [TS]

  the humans have tried to like fight back [TS]

  the toxic jungle the only will come out [TS]

  and trampled to cross them and during [TS]

  those things they show the owners [TS]

  trampling like skyscrapers [TS]

  yeah just like xion in the matrix where [TS]

  it like so civilization has been rebuilt [TS]

  three separate times in this thousand [TS]

  years up to the part where you have [TS]

  skyscrapers and the owner like and no [TS]

  ahead and wipe that was what I thought [TS]

  yeah look at the cheat sheet has been [TS]

  built up enough that they have a giant [TS]

  dome and it ends up getting trampled by [TS]

  the only and then the sports spread I [TS]

  mean they're able to build these [TS]

  technological airplanes I mean they've [TS]

  got flight right lakes really well and [TS]

  again they're talking about at that [TS]

  point how the the toxic jungle or the [TS]

  sea of decay has spread over the years [TS]

  and so I suspect what's what's happened [TS]

  is that these are some pockets of [TS]

  civilization or at least cities that [TS]

  have survived through the thousand years [TS]

  and then gradually get destroyed over [TS]

  time as the as the sea spreads in the [TS]

  homes kind of what but it's the hubris [TS]

  it's not that serious spreading it the [TS]

  the humans to get all up in there like [TS]

  we have this big city we've got [TS]

  skyscrapers why do we tolerate this big [TS]

  insects in these no-go zones why don't [TS]

  we take our big weapons go with [TS]

  and blow the crap out of them and every [TS]

  time they try to do that these big homes [TS]

  come out and go and and and this match [TS]

  their bodies into their cities until [TS]

  they're dead and then their bodies [TS]

  become breeding ground for the next four [TS]

  so there previously safe city is now all [TS]

  toxic jungle right and so that's that's [TS]

  the the was like his whole thing of [TS]

  being in harmony with nature and [TS]

  everything was just his personal theme [TS]

  and also a big japanese theme of I you [TS]

  know why couldn't you just been happy in [TS]

  their City they would've been fine but [TS]

  eventually they feel like no men must [TS]

  dominate the earth and you know miyazaki [TS]

  is taking the righteous hand of his home [TS]

  and saying no you don't don't fight [TS]

  against nature nature will always win [TS]

  and then the later lesson to see this [TS]

  toxic drug was actually doing something [TS]

  trying to clean up a stupid world that [TS]

  you ruined people such as leave it alone [TS]

  if you don't fight with it and you can [TS]

  live in harmony with it in the valley [TS]

  you'll be fine if you fight against it [TS]

  it's all going to end in tears [TS]

  if only they could all have seen that [TS]

  tapestry with the prophecy on it but [TS]

  these all could have been avoided [TS]

  well the prophecy was the the guy in [TS]

  blue with the beard is going to come and [TS]

  save everybody on a big golden field [TS]

  it's just it's just a run-of-the-mill [TS]

  like Savior sort of thing and and I the [TS]

  first time I saw it I didn't take much [TS]

  notice how many times you co this you [TS]

  know the legend of the Savior is going [TS]

  to come and save us or whatever and of [TS]

  course it shows it dude [TS]

  like why wouldn't it you know because [TS]

  that's the world that she lives in right [TS]

  and even though it's like well does it [TS]

  goes the main character and you know [TS]

  it's gonna come through but when I was a [TS]

  kid anyway totally work for me lately in [TS]

  that it didn't even occur to me that she [TS]

  would be the fulfillment of this [TS]

  prophecy I'm like so many other movies [TS]

  that it's clear from seen one this is [TS]

  the prophecy main character will fulfill [TS]

  I think you know we're kind of taught [TS]

  that the girls don't do that so it would [TS]

  be [TS]

  oh yeah of course this man is going to [TS]

  come and maybe nautical help him a [TS]

  little bit and then she'll get a scrape [TS]

  and he'll have to come rescue her and [TS]

  then that'll be that'll be the point of [TS]

  the story but it's not which is amazing [TS]

  and you know going back to star wars and [TS]

  talking about Ray that's what I loved [TS]

  about star wars 2 and they have to show [TS]

  it to you there because it because it's [TS]

  selling conventional they have to show [TS]

  you look bearded guy rain and more [TS]

  friend art da get kids 0 because you [TS]

  don't like I mean I guess that when i [TS]

  saw the kid didn't occur to me and they [TS]

  need to do that and I was glad they did [TS]

  that it's like oh all right now I see it [TS]

  yep thanks I do really like the fact [TS]

  that the reason she's in a blue outfit [TS]

  is because her pink dress has been [TS]

  soaked in all [TS]

  blood doesn't like where she rips the oh [TS]

  my want to talk about them the sandworms [TS]

  of this piece the ohm I there they're uh [TS]

  they're I I'm not cute but i kinda like [TS]

  I kind of love them there be this big [TS]

  segmented dome with lots of eyes [TS]

  slugging roly-polies and friend [TS]

  tentacles than you usually do they are [TS]

  very friendly tentacles and also there's [TS]

  a scene i wrote I wrote on my notes that [TS]

  i can't decide if Nazca really thinks [TS]

  the own can understand her when she [TS]

  talks to him or if they're just talking [TS]

  she's like she would talk to a cat like [TS]

  they can understand that thailand's [TS]

  that's another thing that I think it [TS]

  reveals itself i repeat viewings they [TS]

  mentioned many times like when the bugs [TS]

  in the village and the guys like we got [TS]

  to shoot the other guys know you know [TS]

  the young young guys like let's kill it [TS]

  in the older guys like no no if you kill [TS]

  it if we kill even one bug like the [TS]

  consequence there's no telling how we'd [TS]

  suffer for a single insects death i [TS]

  wrote that town today and so there's an [TS]

  acknowledgement and with all the [TS]

  backstory about the ohm and like [TS]

  carrying the baby and the homecoming and [TS]

  destroy the city [TS]

  these are not dumb animals like that [TS]

  they that they understand the concept of [TS]

  revenge that one of them dies they're [TS]

  going to tell each other about it and [TS]

  come get you all through the toxic [TS]

  jungle-like word spreads they're [TS]

  communicating i mean they're not [TS]

  yeah I'm not sure I'm not sure they can [TS]

  understand what she's saying to them [TS]

  when she talks to the babydome and [TS]

  trying to take care of it but I'm not [TS]

  the baby one but they are they are [TS]

  established as essentially magical [TS]

  because you've got the glowy thing [TS]

  essentially are healing her and you you [TS]

  imagine that they are communicating on a [TS]

  level in which they are communicating [TS]

  and this much more sophisticated way and [TS]

  like that these these these animals all [TS]

  the bugs but especially the ohms are [TS]

  much smarter than like say an elephant [TS]

  or any other kind of animal they're [TS]

  smarter the dog smarter than a dolphin [TS]

  they're essentially could be the new [TS]

  dominant life form on the planet [TS]

  maybe they're not quite as smart as [TS]

  humans or maybe they're just you know [TS]

  they're arranging themselves in a [TS]

  different way but if you think of them [TS]

  as just big charging Buffalo you're [TS]

  missing a lot of the the thrust of the [TS]

  plot of the movie that the idea [TS]

  is that they are they are intelligent [TS]

  was supposed to give another ass angle [TS]

  to the aspect of like the humans who [TS]

  hate the bugs I'm gonna destroy them and [TS]

  just treat them as vermin it's like well [TS]

  not really vermin like they're they're [TS]

  kind of your competition for ownership [TS]

  of this planet going forward I don't see [TS]

  that at all i see that pretty much [TS]

  everything they do could be pretty much [TS]

  chalked up to instinct yeah the charging [TS]

  the red eyes [TS]

  I mean but if you need more than [TS]

  instinct to know that a an insect in the [TS]

  valley has been injured let's go get [TS]

  them [TS]

  yeah but I think it's that they [TS]

  represent the ecosystem like they're [TS]

  they're one of the forces of the e of [TS]

  the ecology of the planet and they they [TS]

  are giant dead trees that dropped yeah [TS]

  they there are cleansing force they get [TS]

  angry than they that but they're almost [TS]

  like the like the wind to their force of [TS]

  nature that is part of this larger [TS]

  environment that they're in i'm not sure [TS]

  that the ohms are gonna be in a building [TS]

  cities anytime soon but i think they are [TS]

  part of the part of the the ecology of [TS]

  the planet and and when you do things [TS]

  that are bad they come and smash you and [TS]

  building cities but just the idea that [TS]

  they have communication that word [TS]

  spreads among they don't have written [TS]

  like straw and clearly have right there [TS]

  and more than more than just pheromones [TS]

  like the idea that hey they killed one [TS]

  of our guys over in that village so [TS]

  let's all get together and go destroy [TS]

  that village right or let's all go to [TS]

  get together and destroy that town and [TS]

  sacrifice are so you get the idea that [TS]

  they don't understand that they are [TS]

  sacrificing themselves they're just not [TS]

  mindlessly I i think the knowledge [TS]

  smarter than they are [TS]

  I don't get that at all yeah i totally [TS]

  agree they are the force of nature type [TS]

  thing but I i think that they are there [TS]

  are the clear successor students because [TS]

  that's one of the questions in the [TS]

  movies like that i think music voices at [TS]

  some point like will will the you know [TS]

  the the sea of decay spread like our [TS]

  arguments going to make it essentially [TS]

  and I feel like if they don't homes are [TS]

  clearly the top of the intelligence [TS]

  chain of the various bugs that are in [TS]

  there and they seem very thoughtful and [TS]

  they seem very social and they seem to [TS]

  care about their young like me what what [TS]

  other animal of any intelligence level a [TS]

  massive the entire herd to go after one [TS]

  baby that never happens any society [TS]

  except for something as sophisticated as [TS]

  humans because other you know other big [TS]

  animals don't care about your baby this [TS]

  I'm not going to gather all the guys [TS]

  let's all get that baby that never [TS]

  happens I feeling well no that's that's [TS]

  basically what is effectively is that if [TS]

  the baby's being killed [TS]

  that's like once poor on a tree in the [TS]

  valley of the wind it indicates that you [TS]

  know there are humans here and the [TS]

  destructors of the planet are here and [TS]

  therefore that's where we need to go and [TS]

  that's what we need to crush enough that [TS]

  their plot reason we didn't i didn't [TS]

  read intelligence into it as much as [TS]

  sort of a kind of almost mystical wisdom [TS]

  so they were yes they they were sort of [TS]

  the the speakers for the the from the [TS]

  parliament in a very yeah in a very in a [TS]

  very sort of just like mystical and wise [TS]

  way I didn't feel like there was a whole [TS]

  lot of specific piece by piece thought [TS]

  going on but they had some sort of you [TS]

  know empathy almost that they were able [TS]

  to communicate with nasik Nazca are [TS]

  actually that she was able to [TS]

  communicate with them to get her point [TS]

  across because she's she's got this [TS]

  crazy crazy it i don't know if it's a [TS]

  skill i don't know if it's supposed to [TS]

  be some sort of like low-level telepathy [TS]

  or if she's just that good at at exuding [TS]

  you know but the only firm and and [TS]

  they're also like compassionate to so I [TS]

  think that can do it maybe I'd agree [TS]

  with Erica in terms of like kind of the [TS]

  the wisdom of the earth or like whatever [TS]

  that is but like once they calm down [TS]

  it's like oh wait let's assess the [TS]

  situation a little bit what's happening [TS]

  no someone someone is hurt and clearly [TS]

  they weren't this person wasn't [TS]

  hell-bent on destroying us [TS]

  you know what can we do to help them and [TS]

  yeah I can kind of like that theory of [TS]

  the baby the baby tells them this girl [TS]

  helped me right baby says hey this lady [TS]

  who just trampled and probably basically [TS]

  killed the idea is that the babydome [TS]

  tells the other ones this person helped [TS]

  me so bring her back to life with your [TS]

  magic [TS]

  yeah well and I mean that in itself to [TS]

  me the spokes that that they are more [TS]

  than just what the other bugs are like [TS]

  the fact that they are able to recognize [TS]

  regardless of the mechanism of them [TS]

  learning that fact that they were able [TS]

  to recognize that there is a person who [TS]

  helped one of their own and it and [TS]

  because of that they can you cool down [TS]

  and go from red to blue [TS]

  there's a dream sequence I at one point [TS]

  when she's when she goes down in the [TS]

  quicksand that I just I I all I really [TS]

  noticed that i liked that the dream [TS]

  sequences done in a different style of [TS]

  art then the rest of your haiti's a [TS]

  sketchy animation style that was popular [TS]

  than not so much they take on me video [TS]

  things like I was going to say the [TS]

  singer bahaha does not appear in this [TS]

  stream secrets but he could far as you [TS]

  know you and slowed-down frame rate and [TS]

  it has i think what is probably the most [TS]

  overtly phallic shot in all of miyazaki [TS]

  movies when she is riding on my guess [TS]

  the horse or whatever with her father [TS]

  and they're showing a kind of from her [TS]

  perspective what is it like to be on [TS]

  there in the hilt of his sword is like [TS]

  it you know poking up and shaped in a [TS]

  very phallic matter moving back and [TS]

  forth as in like she's in the idea of [TS]

  the father is impossibly large as hands [TS]

  are huge and it's just a very you know I [TS]

  am a small little person hears this big [TS]

  man who is dominating my life [TS]

  you think that's worse than the scene of [TS]

  the ostriches licking her face with your [TS]

  enormous pink tongues [TS]

  yes yes I don't know maniacally I but [TS]

  yeah that whole scene with the baby home [TS]

  I mean it's another character moment and [TS]

  it's got an a an adorable song haha is [TS]

  that a flash packer are pure dream [TS]

  sequence [TS]

  I was trying to decide that the baby on [TS]

  when I was a flashback i'm assuming the [TS]

  app is I took it as basically I'm her [TS]

  life flashing before her eyes and her [TS]

  remembering that happening a long time [TS]

  ago and also I as i mentioned earlier i [TS]

  think the quicksand thing is dumb [TS]

  that's like oh no we are dying in [TS]

  quicksand no and then she wakes up was [TS]

  like oh and then we emerged without like [TS]

  falling from the ceiling of this giant [TS]

  thing and dying we emerged in a huge [TS]

  cave of that's good and that all the [TS]

  water is pure in the air is pure every [TS]

  time I've seen this movie I thought come [TS]

  on how does that work that's like [TS]

  apparently in this world one can fall [TS]

  600 feet and not die which is why [TS]

  they're so confident they're flying [TS]

  because they fell with sand and landed [TS]

  on sand which look so soft don't you [TS]

  think another mythbuster [TS]

  episode can you fall with a bunch of [TS]

  sand and land on it and not die from CTE [TS]

  I just I just sort of hand waved that [TS]

  entire thing away [TS]

  there's a reason that there's a dream [TS]

  sequence and then she wakes up not [TS]

  knowing what happened it's like just [TS]

  nevermind it was just this beautiful it [TS]

  was so beautiful like the cave and the I [TS]

  mean it also didn't make any sense that [TS]

  there's sunlight somehow getting down [TS]

  there it's so dark in the sea of decay [TS]

  to start with right and yet somehow [TS]

  there's light coming down infield has [TS]

  got more beautifully lit it looks great [TS]

  goodness of goodness that does that [TS]

  right when you say that the trees they [TS]

  soak up the sun light and it spread to [TS]

  the top and it falls to the earth as [TS]

  light crystals [TS]

  yes I am I can accepted this not taste [TS]

  really weird but it's good for you it's [TS]

  the seed yeah I was a I was very [TS]

  relieved when I discovered that Oscar [TS]

  was wearing pants because it's not [TS]

  immediately clear the left time i watch [TS]

  this [TS]

  yes it took me a while to sort of figure [TS]

  that out and I had to like deposit and [TS]

  screen cabins like what is going on here [TS]

  so yeah first thing when i started [TS]

  watching this with Stephen I was like by [TS]

  the way just please note she is in fact [TS]

  wearing pants [TS]

  wearing pants [TS]

  there's like a flesh-colored yeah [TS]

  flashcard leggings from the skin of some [TS]

  animal right we do still get a lot of [TS]

  scenes of her skirt blowing up from [TS]

  behind which is open those are tight [TS]

  fitting pants [TS]

  yeah yep the giant warrior I guess we [TS]

  could talk about ya look at that is such [TS]

  an anticlimax like this big warrior that [TS]

  building up may bring it out before it [TS]

  was done cooking and it just falls apart [TS]

  just like they said it would but you [TS]

  know you got you got to go to or we go [TS]

  to war with the warrior you have you [TS]

  know that too feels like something that [TS]

  somewhat of a missed opportunity that [TS]

  would have been a lot more impressive [TS]

  had they stretch this out longer and [TS]

  multiple movies [TS]

  yeah I almost wish it wasn't there [TS]

  because it just when I think about the [TS]

  movie when I think back on it they never [TS]

  remember that it's there anyway it [TS]

  clearly doesn't add anything for me [TS]

  other than some like flashy lights at [TS]

  the end and so I don't it it's a weird [TS]

  thing to me [TS]

  well it highlights the futility of what [TS]

  they're trying to do right i mean [TS]

  they're so hell-bent on killing each [TS]

  other that there and if they're going to [TS]

  go right back to the old ways like if [TS]

  you have they don't have access to [TS]

  weapons but if you give one of them [TS]

  access to weapons immediately just like [TS]

  we got to use to kill the other guys [TS]

  like this is the first instinct [TS]

  it's the fighting over the weapon is the [TS]

  reason past these two things are warring [TS]

  with each other is all i heard they have [TS]

  a weapon we have to go take it from all [TS]

  will take a backhaul will use it against [TS]

  them and then in the end like they'd be [TS]

  used against nature instead of against [TS]

  mammals like oh we need to regroup let's [TS]

  not fight each other the overcoming [TS]

  let's use this big man weapon against [TS]

  them and it falls apart because like you [TS]

  can't you know you can't fight against [TS]

  nature don't even try and they have to [TS]

  have the scene where he shoots out a big [TS]

  thing it makes a gigantic mushroom cloud [TS]

  up boy [TS]

  japanese can draw a mushroom clouds like [TS]

  nobody's business like very dramatic big [TS]

  flash of light and makes no sense that [TS]

  he drew a line with this laser and makes [TS]

  a mushroom cloud but dammit we have a [TS]

  mushroom cloud and it's going to look [TS]

  good and it doesn't matter because the [TS]

  only keep coming and it means also you [TS]

  know you're ruining it you're doing the [TS]

  violent thing that could let us to this [TS]

  terrible terrible place and that that's [TS]

  the message of that firing it although i [TS]

  did have that moment of the the [TS]

  simplicity of the plot where when it [TS]

  needs to not be there anymore it just [TS]

  dies and they basically like oh I guess [TS]

  it died it turns into orange know which [TS]

  is anime anime shorthand for guts [TS]

  yeah isn't [TS]

  not a unique to miyazaki yeah I just I I [TS]

  it's very convenient that it is very [TS]

  fearsome weapon until it needs to not be [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  yeah which probably didn't let it finish [TS]

  cooking like it yes it's fun it's like a [TS]

  biological weapon and like you know [TS]

  they're they're trying to like get it [TS]

  back up the fighting strength like you [TS]

  can take it out needs to be in the oven [TS]

  for 20 more minutes is like no I'm [TS]

  taking it out now it's alright well and [TS]

  I do feel like that the use of it like [TS]

  that by that point Hashanah is very I [TS]

  mean she's just sort of but blinded by [TS]

  battle rage but I didn't like when she's [TS]

  first introduced at the beginning her if [TS]

  the way she's going about things is [TS]

  really crappy but her motivations are [TS]

  actually a understandable it's not like [TS]

  she's a mustache twirling villain she [TS]

  wants to take the world back for humans [TS]

  because you know that the sea of decay [TS]

  is an awful thing as far as she knows [TS]

  she doesn't know the truth about it [TS]

  because she hasn't fallen 600 feet [TS]

  through sand so she just wants to to [TS]

  help her people and and not just to help [TS]

  her people to help the people of the [TS]

  valley to and i will i like the idea [TS]

  that that I can see things from her [TS]

  perspective and and that she's not just [TS]

  evil for the sake of of evil and then [TS]

  you know she sort of goes the wrong [TS]

  direction as things go along and just [TS]

  gets more and more fed up and angry and [TS]

  just wants to fight fight fight but at [TS]

  least at the beginning she was a [TS]

  somewhat more interesting character [TS]

  she's a pro lady about she basically [TS]

  lady about she is a princess mononoke [TS]

  the supposed antagonist woman but you [TS]

  are forced to you know recognize that [TS]

  are at least it you know understand [TS]

  where she's coming from because her [TS]

  motive she does lots of good things and [TS]

  her motivation seem to make sense [TS]

  logically she just happens to be on the [TS]

  wrong side of the magical world that [TS]

  Miyazaki has set up in which you really [TS]

  shouldn't go against nature because he's [TS]

  writing the story dammit and [TS]

  you're gonna lose music is really [TS]

  pastoral kind of guy you know the it [TS]

  Japan is interesting because it's got [TS]

  these incredibly dense urban centers and [TS]

  then it's got the countryside and I you [TS]

  know I with all of his work i love the [TS]

  countryside and I think of skepticism of [TS]

  technology and density of of you know [TS]

  big cities seems to be a theme that I [TS]

  see and so I was thinking of that when [TS]

  when I when we get this kind of [TS]

  imperialism of the troops coming in and [TS]

  saying well we're from the word from [TS]

  this being a bigger civilization and [TS]

  we're gonna take over you [TS]

  quaint little people who live off the [TS]

  land here in this special little Valley [TS]

  we're gonna we're gonna take over for [TS]

  you and I I felt like that was right up [TS]

  Miyazaki's ally of saying the these are [TS]

  the people who live off the land they [TS]

  understood there closer to the earth [TS]

  than you are they understand it better [TS]

  than you [TS]

  it's always going to be better for the [TS]

  the small group of people out in the [TS]

  countryside than it is for some [TS]

  Outsiders from the city who think they [TS]

  know better than the people from the [TS]

  country and you know this guy I see this [TS]

  in key i see this in totoro I mean this [TS]

  is something that he does again and [TS]

  again when they have the luxury of not [TS]

  having been developing their protected [TS]

  by the wind and they can afford to not [TS]

  have to they don't want to fight wars [TS]

  for the people there in this secluded [TS]

  Valley they're protected they don't have [TS]

  to build defenses against talk jungle [TS]

  and are constantly fighting against bugs [TS]

  and doing stuff like that it's all like [TS]

  they're they're kind of like laid-back [TS]

  like we had and then the other ones that [TS]

  you imagine the other humans are have a [TS]

  much much more difficult struggle [TS]

  against nature and so they're all booked [TS]

  up in there friday against each other [TS]

  and then the valley gets in the middle [TS]

  of this like we were just here doing our [TS]

  thing and be in our little village and [TS]

  you guys come and basically destroyed [TS]

  almost the entire thing that the [TS]

  burndown three-hundred-year-old forest [TS]

  they crashed the plane there friday each [TS]

  other's there the then the owner coming [TS]

  towards them [TS]

  it's not not a good movie for the valley [TS]

  and there's all the the bucketheads the [TS]

  helmet head sir they're the worst [TS]

  that's true you know and even just [TS]

  strictly from an aesthetic perspective i [TS]

  actually have that my notes to it was a [TS]

  really neat just juxtaposition to see [TS]

  the the military airplanes all that gray [TS]

  metal you know lots of rabbits and stuff [TS]

  flying in / this pastoral beauty of the [TS]

  valley of the wind and there's such a [TS]

  contrast between the two of those and [TS]

  made [TS]

  that scene even more sort of you know [TS]

  heart clutching because like oh no not [TS]

  only are they being invaded their being [TS]

  invaded in a style that's so completely [TS]

  different from the life that we have [TS]

  seen them living so far as painful life [TS]

  is just better when your primary [TS]

  industries our crops and windmills [TS]

  well you do wonder if that's sustainable [TS]

  like because they do show like when she [TS]

  meets up a large Cuba and they're like [TS]

  on their way back home there's a bunch [TS]

  of windmills and stuff out there and [TS]

  you're like so maybe this whole windmill [TS]

  being protected by the wind culture used [TS]

  to be spread out much farther and like [TS]

  this is the last fashion because they're [TS]

  wandering through towns that seem to [TS]

  have windmills just like there's that [TS]

  are close to their home but they're [TS]

  totally overrun by toxic jungle in the [TS]

  desert and all this other stuff and so [TS]

  they're still safe but I mean I got an [TS]

  honest question is this is this it for [TS]

  humans it will the the sea of decay take [TS]

  over everything are we gonna make it [TS]

  it's a multi-generational question for [TS]

  sure but the answer is not clear [TS]

  especially since they haven't really [TS]

  done anything to fortify themselves just [TS]

  basically relying on the wind and doing [TS]

  in a farming to get themselves a 3-2 [TS]

  winter I guess another thing that we [TS]

  could talk about even briefly is kinda [TS]

  we talked about how cool Gnostic is in [TS]

  the beginning and how resourceful she is [TS]

  and how smart she is but we haven't [TS]

  talked about like her little underground [TS]

  lair and how she figures out that the [TS]

  plants aren't the toxic things it's the [TS]

  soil in the water that's toxic and how [TS]

  like basically she's motivated to add a [TS]

  note like we're not told about any kind [TS]

  of school or any kind of scientific [TS]

  discovery like obviously they're very [TS]

  into aviation and in these cultures but [TS]

  we're not really told about like [TS]

  scientific theories or biology or [TS]

  whatever so she's basically as far as [TS]

  I'm concerned he's like learned how to [TS]

  science on her own [TS]

  it has created like this underground I [TS]

  not a greenhouse with this underground [TS]

  thing and she's motivated because her [TS]

  her father is very sick and then there's [TS]

  later there's an old man who's like a [TS]

  gnostic is going to figure out what's [TS]

  going on and make me better and like so [TS]

  so we've we've got this thread [TS]

  throughout you know we've got the [TS]

  presumably the flashback of her [TS]

  with the baby own and and and her like [TS]

  crying and clutching it and trying to [TS]

  protect it and in like this kind loving [TS]

  scientific resourceful young woman and [TS]

  how freakin cool and Obama is like no no [TS]

  it's all about legends they're going to [TS]

  say 10 scientific method I can we can [TS]

  figure things out again her village just [TS]

  seemed to be all about the science there [TS]

  into agriculture fine and somehow [TS]

  they've got these planes that you're not [TS]

  quite sure how that fits in with the [TS]

  rest of stuff that seems way more [TS]

  advanced gliders maybe but that gunship [TS]

  know where the hell that came from but [TS]

  it looks like the style of their village [TS]

  but no one else is like you know [TS]

  studying crops there like spore resist [TS]

  enter doing gene splicing and she's down [TS]

  there essentially she's like Isaac [TS]

  Newton and mendel you know all rolled [TS]

  into one [TS]

  well you don't have to do it in secret [TS]

  because it's not like a supported [TS]

  activities not actually the apprentice [TS]

  to the science program of development [TS]

  she is the science program of the family [TS]

  I think the suggestion is that everybody [TS]

  else in the villages too busy planting [TS]

  crops and making sure the windows [TS]

  runtime the luxury of that is how we [TS]

  worked a lot of you know back in the [TS]

  early scientific days like who had time [TS]

  to do with science stuff like that [TS]

  nobility or the the upper classes [TS]

  otherwise you are you know you have to [TS]

  work all day so you wouldn't die in the [TS]

  winter I mean she has the time to get to [TS]

  go into the sea of decay at the [TS]

  beginning and and collect the spore and [TS]

  then find the the Home shell which then [TS]

  they say okay well later when we have [TS]

  some time we'll go in and we'll get that [TS]

  for our tools so i think just by [TS]

  necessity now I i I'm actually kind of [TS]

  confused as to why she's so secretive [TS]

  about it other than that perhaps the [TS]

  rest of the villagers will be so [TS]

  disturbed by the fact that she's hanging [TS]

  on to talk what they consider to be [TS]

  taught explored i think is like the man [TS]

  beyond like why are you keeping a baby [TS]

  I'm like even during that sequence i [TS]

  remember the first time I watch it kind [TS]

  of understanding a dad it's like do you [TS]

  really want your kids to have his own [TS]

  because they look cute but like you know [TS]

  like like monkeys they grow up to things [TS]

  that can tear your face off or worse so [TS]

  maybe you know they take that thing away [TS]

  I don't kill it oh they're gonna kill it [TS]

  like because you can't have that stuff [TS]

  in the village of the same thing she's [TS]

  being secretive she's learned she's [TS]

  grown people don't like it when you [TS]

  bring stuff back from toxic jungle when [TS]

  I found like I know please you know [TS]

  because of one of those things got on [TS]

  their plants they got to burn the whole [TS]

  forest down so you can kind of [TS]

  understand why she's hiding it [TS]

  because any of there is no culture and [TS]

  supporting her right her you know let me [TS]

  figure out how to save the world with [TS]

  science endeavors but she knows Lorde [TS]

  you people will be down with it because [TS]

  she invites him into our secret room at [TS]

  one point [TS]

  yeah he's cool is the cool uncle yep [TS]

  he's been places you know stuff he's the [TS]

  cool uncle who will stop your sword [TS]

  thrust with his wrist [TS]

  yeah I don't have the best defense [TS]

  mechanism but it worked the yeah they're [TS]

  there you get he got he gets cool sword [TS]

  fighting stuff there's a couple of [TS]

  amusing sword fights where there's a [TS]

  where you know there's a big there's a [TS]

  lot of back-and-forth and then somebody [TS]

  sort of like just wills their way to [TS]

  push a whole bunch of people away from [TS]

  them which is a classic classic maneuver [TS]

  where you go on now I'm fighting three [TS]

  of you push and they all fall down but [TS]

  yeah I'm cool anyway he's definitely [TS]

  cool it almost makes up for his terrible [TS]

  hair style choices i want to ask about [TS]

  the end of the movie uh so Monica is [TS]

  seemingly dead and then she is sort of [TS]

  like touched by many tentacles of many [TS]

  ohms and she is raised into the sky and [TS]

  is brought back to life and and then [TS]

  walks across the the golden the golden [TS]

  fields in order to return and and and [TS]

  fulfill the prophecy [TS]

  what did everybody think about this you [TS]

  know this sudden death and resurrection [TS]

  at the end of the movie for naaka I [TS]

  didn't think she died is that she was [TS]

  very badly injured and they healed her [TS]

  with their you know totally scientific [TS]

  healing powers that they have because [TS]

  there was over a thousand years the heel [TS]

  humans and no no III give it a little [TS]

  bit of a magic angle but the important [TS]

  point is not whether she said the [TS]

  important point is she's choosing to [TS]

  sacrifice herself in an attempt to save [TS]

  our village she has no expectation she's [TS]

  gonna live when she's sitting there with [TS]

  the baby on the things charging towards [TS]

  her like it's not like she thinks so [TS]

  this will be final stop right before [TS]

  they get to me she's making a brave [TS]

  decision and her brave decision is not [TS]

  to defeat the owned by commandeering the [TS]

  big warrior and shooting them all until [TS]

  they stay away from the village she is [TS]

  trying to save the village in her way [TS]

  which is they're mad about this let's [TS]

  give the baby a give the baby back to [TS]

  the right thing to do and be this is the [TS]

  only reasonable way to save our city [TS]

  our Valley we shouldn't be shooting them [TS]

  with lasers from a giant and to make [TS]

  this happen [TS]

  you know I'm gonna sacrifice myself even [TS]

  saving the home I'm gonna like stop it [TS]

  from going into the acid water because [TS]

  it doesn't know by having myself going [TS]

  to the acid I'm gonna you know like she [TS]

  she wins the day [TS]

  by sacrificing herself whether or not [TS]

  she actually went all the way dead [TS]

  before they brought her back to life or [TS]

  not and that is another example of [TS]

  heroism does not equal vanquishing your [TS]

  photos with strength like it's not that [TS]

  they're not equivalent like a manliness [TS]

  and manas and all that type of stuff is [TS]

  not the only way to be a hero [TS]

  yeah I don't think she is dead although [TS]

  it's clear that the villagers from afar [TS]

  think your kids the kids shouting very [TS]

  loudly that she's dead and we grab my [TS]

  saying yeah probably probably heard [TS]

  they're all doctors she fulfills the [TS]

  prophecy then everybody ok with the [TS]

  prophecy fulfilled that was another sort [TS]

  of rolling eyes having that I did it is [TS]

  easy [TS]

  not only that she's probably a princess [TS]

  but she has to fulfill the prophecy ok [TS]

  it was cute at to me it's sort of fit [TS]

  along with with the bit of mystical [TS]

  wisdom that i was reading from the ohms [TS]

  I I felt like the the idea of a prophecy [TS]

  bringing it all together was was kind of [TS]

  cute and I i would have been fine [TS]

  without it but having it in there was ok [TS]

  and and like Steve I was really cool [TS]

  with the idea that her dress became blue [TS]

  because of the ohms blood just staining [TS]

  it except for the design on the front [TS]

  which is apparently resistant to own [TS]

  blood and no and yes I was I was good [TS]

  with it [TS]

  yeah i mean that's that's the movie is [TS]

  the formula you're going to be here [TS]

  you're going to fill the prophecy to [TS]

  twist on it this time is that if you're [TS]

  young and steeped in a lady's culture [TS]

  like I was doesn't occur to you that [TS]

  she's going to be the hero and so they [TS]

  have that hammer home the thing but in [TS]

  the end it is a formula movie about you [TS]

  know saving the world from destruction [TS]

  through heroism and she's a princess and [TS]

  she fills the prophecy and that's that's [TS]

  how that's how these movies work so you [TS]

  know it's I totally accept it because [TS]

  this I think is a great example of that [TS]

  genre that it does things in an [TS]

  interesting way even though it basically [TS]

  follows every point of performing well [TS]

  and it's it's it's very miyazaki right [TS]

  like the the whole mysticism and [TS]

  prophecy type stuff is there it's just [TS]

  it's in line with what he does pretty [TS]

  much all the time does everybody have to [TS]

  be the chosen one [TS]

  you know does it but i guess that i [TS]

  guess so well in 1984 you did ya then [TS]

  people weren't tired of those tropes yet [TS]

  in 1984 they were they stay something [TS]

  that you did well not an animation maybe [TS]

  maybe in in Japanese animation but [TS]

  certainly not what we were seeing in the [TS]

  States [TS]

  that's what you got that was a that was [TS]

  your classic tropes all right anything [TS]

  else we should talk about that we [TS]

  haven't brought up so far if you've got [TS]

  some things on your list now would be a [TS]

  time to get them off your list and into [TS]

  the podcast i really like the exchange [TS]

  with the Tamaki and soldier pops up and [TS]

  says councillor we await your orders and [TS]

  he responds shut up and the guy says yes [TS]

  sir [TS]

  oh yeah that was awesome ya know what [TS]

  you wanted to do nothing [TS]

  go away alright you got it yeah that was [TS]

  the one chanakya that's that's exactly [TS]

  how they should always go right just go [TS]

  away [TS]

  alright got it stopped like the the [TS]

  credit sequence which is a like in key [TS]

  where you know the movie is over right [TS]

  but they give you the the main stories / [TS]

  we want to tell you how all the people [TS]

  that you care about what happened to [TS]

  them [TS]

  yeah that's a lot it's not going to be a [TS]

  thing yeah exactly but it's going to be [TS]

  the credits are going to roll over [TS]

  there's going to be no dialogue so the [TS]

  things we learned this one is you [TS]

  basically have peace between the valley [TS]

  in Kinshasa they don't presume that [TS]

  battle that they were going to have when [TS]

  they were interrupted from the home and [TS]

  tell me kids leave the valley peaceably [TS]

  we imagine new windmills and wells are [TS]

  built knows because they're helping them [TS]

  you know get their their feedback on to [TS]

  them they plan to replant the forest was [TS]

  burned down [TS]

  she teaches the kids to fly gliders [TS]

  which I don't know if this is a new [TS]

  democratization of the gliding lessons [TS]

  previously only the Royal people had [TS]

  applied which we don't see anyone else [TS]

  like gliders earlier in the movie but it [TS]

  in the credits sequence she's like hey [TS]

  kids i'm gonna show you all how to be [TS]

  gladder flyers like me which is adorable [TS]

  and the air will be filled with [TS]

  high-pitched screams right well that you [TS]

  just like Chuck's him off a cliff [TS]

  hanging onto a wing is like that doesn't [TS]

  it was like well I guess the ones that [TS]

  fall you didn't make it [TS]

  yeah as bell goes out with exploring [TS]

  with Lord yuba they're just like off the [TS]

  two of them you know as well does not [TS]

  stay in Mary nautica like evasion and [TS]

  they're not live happily ever after he [TS]

  goes off he's going to be in [TS]

  explorer and seeing how what what the [TS]

  other humans are up to and checking the [TS]

  extent of the cdk with Lord yuba and [TS]

  then bugs be bugging ya i actually [TS]

  because because I ended up taking my [TS]

  computer into my room and watching most [TS]

  of the movie by myself [TS]

  the battery on my computer died exactly [TS]

  as the first credit came up and i was so [TS]

  tired as falling asleep anyway so I just [TS]

  shut my computer and and and set it down [TS]

  and was like yeah watch the movie this [TS]

  morning when i open my computer up and [TS]

  plugged it in it immediately started [TS]

  playing from the place that it left off [TS]

  and I got to see all of this nice [TS]

  falling action and found find out you [TS]

  know what happened to the character so I [TS]

  felt like I i had a nice little had a [TS]

  nice little sleep on it before i was [TS]

  reminded of what happened to all these [TS]

  characters i loved that there's some [TS]

  scenes there where they're working on [TS]

  the windmills as well yeah that the new [TS]

  the windmills and well like they're [TS]

  getting there getting there town back [TS]

  into shape and that really impressions [TS]

  the Clean Water the impression I got [TS]

  from that was that perhaps they had [TS]

  worked out a way to pull up pure soil [TS]

  and water so that when they replant the [TS]

  forest there replanting what is [TS]

  effectively a non-toxic forest but they [TS]

  already knew how to get clean water [TS]

  because I said this is just like regular [TS]

  from are well and the soil was tainted [TS]

  so yeah I don't know if they've found a [TS]

  way to get soil but newbie but there's [TS]

  there's sand at the bottom of their well [TS]

  that's pure as well so yeah but like if [TS]

  you if you take this movie to be like oh [TS]

  this was nuclear war right that's not [TS]

  her radiation works like plants don't [TS]

  make it go away like it's it's a little [TS]

  bit plan w john a little bit tougher I [TS]

  know you want to do it but like it's a [TS]

  little tougher nut to crack with the [TS]

  whole subatomic particles thing like it [TS]

  is that radiation and decay really don't [TS]

  don't stand up to biological means of [TS]

  dealing with it it's going to be there [TS]

  until it's not going to be there but [TS]

  anyway this is all you know that you can [TS]

  make up the rules as world however you [TS]

  want but yeah like you would think like [TS]

  if everything is polluted they're like [TS]

  you see basically the people getting you [TS]

  know but like the bumps on their hands [TS]

  or whatever you're assuming the father [TS]

  and all you know this is the fate of all [TS]

  men who [TS]

  or live near the jungle like we're all [TS]

  just gonna die young from presumably a [TS]

  cancer like element which seems like [TS]

  kind of a bummer be like but how do you [TS]

  even lift to that age if all of your [TS]

  soil is tainted or whatever so now it's [TS]

  kind of like the spaceships and star [TS]

  wars movie the speed of plot the the [TS]

  toxicology of the the sea of decay does [TS]

  what it needs to do for the purposes of [TS]

  this story as satisfying is that ending [TS]

  montage is i still find the miyazaki [TS]

  ending comical where everything is [TS]

  resolved and boom the movies over now [TS]

  here's the montage [TS]

  it's called a happy ending i'm not sure [TS]

  if you're familiar with it but no but [TS]

  those kids movies I've seen happy [TS]

  endings that don't don't last I like [TS]

  that I don't want to have the big long [TS]

  and drawn out thing I left my love the [TS]

  credit sequence you don't need to have [TS]

  any dialogue you just need to show like [TS]

  seems like little vignettes of like you [TS]

  know it just enough to know what what's [TS]

  what's happening with them who you know [TS]

  who is with who what are they doing are [TS]

  they rebuilding our people happier [TS]

  people said who's leaving who is staying [TS]

  that I love that that's the perfect way [TS]

  to wrap up the movie rather than like [TS]

  otherwise you have to figure out some [TS]

  way to end it end it at the you know [TS]

  that the resolution of the major [TS]

  conflict you don't even need to I [TS]

  freeware the end I think they just ended [TS]

  with like oh she's alive and we're all [TS]

  happy that is the end you don't need to [TS]

  drag it out anymore [TS]

  I wonder if this was technically the [TS]

  first studio ghibli film set correct [TS]

  this studio is formed after this movie [TS]

  it's like a movie that me and studio [TS]

  galea this is early times though [TS]

  yeah yeah whatever you think of like [TS]

  future boy conan other things like you [TS]

  know building up to the miyazaki we [TS]

  would come to know a lot of this is all [TS]

  throat oh you know later even though you [TS]

  have this one that wasn't studio it's [TS]

  really hadn't yet been formed good or [TS]

  whatever like technically speaking [TS]

  corporation wise if you look at this you [TS]

  see a line straight from this through to [TS]

  especially castle in the sky and and [TS]

  Princess Mononoke i'm just wondering if [TS]

  the fact that they packed so much story [TS]

  and so much stuff into this movie [TS]

  necessitated the use of that that [TS]

  montage of the credits instead of [TS]

  actually drawing out the ending more and [TS]

  that inform future miyazaki films [TS]

  because it seemed to work well i mean i [TS]

  don't think he made up that thing it's a [TS]

  lot of movies do that but it's it's [TS]

  satisfying and if you're an animator we [TS]

  gotta do a bunch of animation and [TS]

  don't have to deal with the dialogue or [TS]

  moving lips just people smiling and [TS]

  doing happy things and being together [TS]

  and it's it's a visual payoff for [TS]

  watching the rest of the movie and [TS]

  coming to enjoy these characters you [TS]

  just want you want to see them be [TS]

  successful and happy and have things be [TS]

  resolved and you don't need there to be [TS]

  a plot in that part [TS]

  all right we're gonna wrap it up here I [TS]

  was fun to revisit the Nazca and talk [TS]

  about it for more than like eight [TS]

  minutes like we did on that one podcast [TS]

  that one time but we will be back [TS]

  obviously at some point in the future [TS]

  with another miyazaki movie i would like [TS]

  to thank the members of this edition of [TS]

  the miyazaki club for joining me tonight [TS]

  Alan Simms thanks for being here thanks [TS]

  for having me [TS]

  Erica and sign thanks for joining us [TS]

  thank you Jason and I have to say is na [TS]

  na na na na left that one and most it's [TS]

  gonna be in my head forever forever and [TS]

  ever [TS]

  Steve what's this nut tastes really [TS]

  weird yeah boy if I had a nickel it's [TS]

  been a pleasure Jason I'm glad you could [TS]

  join you all tonight i agree i don't [TS]

  think I like this one quite as much as [TS]

  the previous two but it is a fascinating [TS]

  movie and I did enjoy the experience and [TS]

  John siracusa thank you as always i was [TS]

  going to fox squirrels that I've got a [TS]

  baby home which is cute but not quite [TS]

  this yeah you can't keep them you've got [TS]

  us taking back the throne back otherwise [TS]

  you get but your house gets crushed [TS]

  biomes if you don't take it back [TS]

  do not feed them after midnight either [TS]

  know that's a big problem and thanks [TS]

  everybody out there for listening to [TS]

  this episode the uncomfortable I've been [TS]

  your host Jason L we will see you next [TS]

  week [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  what a year what a year nineteen [TS]

  eighty-four was [TS]