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0:00:18dot TV / smell and use the code smell
0:00:21the incomparable number 292 March 2016
0:00:33welcome back everybody to the
0:00:35uncomfortable i'm your host Jason still
0:00:37we're back with the second edition of he
0:00:39starts correct bad movie thing that
0:00:43we're doing compliant why why for this
0:00:48episode it is bad Star Trek Louise the
0:00:51next generation as we watched Star Trek
0:00:54insurrection from 1998 and star trek
0:00:56nemesis from 2002 star trek nemesis you
0:01:01may remember as the one that killed the
0:01:03franchise for several year although it
0:01:09was you know the six years later James
0:01:11brought it back but this was the end of
0:01:13the line for the next generation crew so
0:01:15to talk about these movies in turn and
0:01:17give them a good beating as if they were
0:01:19piñatas we just like the last time we
0:01:21talked about started five and started
0:01:23much picture i'm joined by a different
0:01:25panel of people but one person remains
0:01:27in common that's mr. Scott McNulty my
0:01:29star trek go-to expert hi Scott
0:01:32hello Jason have you ever experienced a
0:01:34perfect moment
0:01:35yeah i yeah we'll talk about that later
0:01:40bonus track damn morons here hi Dan
0:01:44Jason if if you had lived my life would
0:01:47you not do the same as me and beyond
0:01:49this podcast and watch too terrible Star
0:01:51Trek movies ask yourself this
0:01:53it's good point i'll cut myself with a
0:01:55Romulan knife and and prove my loyalty
0:01:58that's just how they say hello George
0:01:59Eric and signs also here
0:02:02hello i am here i'd have to say I didn't
0:02:05take close enough note of these movies
0:02:08to have an actual quote to say here
0:02:10here's one
0:02:11this is a oscar-winner f murray Abraham
0:02:13circuit down and memory talking about
0:02:18you're not just a winner
0:02:19oscar-winner Brianna was here to talk
0:02:21star trek as we love to do with her
0:02:22hello
0:02:23in the event of emergency i can be used
0:02:25to simplification how did they forget
0:02:28that line boom and Joe rosenstiel is
0:02:32also here hi Joe
0:02:34I seem to be missing several memory and
0:02:35grams mmm
0:02:37you know and we'll reason because
0:02:39apparently they are physical objects and
0:02:41not to anyway I i have questions about
0:02:44data is brain what the wheel
0:02:47oh I'll never get answers it sends out
0:02:50positronic signals across vast distances
0:02:52light-years to very specific
0:02:54scholarships
0:02:55yeah um bored well let's start with me
0:02:58i'll start with the structure and action
0:03:00so um so here's here's the thing on
0:03:03Twitter somebody told me when we say
0:03:06we're doing bad electric the next
0:03:07generation somebody said all of them
0:03:09which is really mean because star trek
0:03:11first contact
0:03:12that's a great movie i think it's the
0:03:13best Star Trek movie other than Star
0:03:15Trek to I think it's a legitimately
0:03:16great movie
0:03:17yeah um you know star generations is
0:03:21kind of mediocre up there are a lot of
0:03:23things i like about it including i love
0:03:25that there are scenes with Captain
0:03:27Picard in' and Captain Kirk talking to
0:03:29each other and service but on horse on
0:03:31hoarders you get the sense that they
0:03:33were like lowering william shatner into
0:03:35the movie rights like you can ride a
0:03:36horse bill you could do that i do you
0:03:38love horses better stewards like why do
0:03:40I have to ride a horse although card
0:03:42have a saddle in that Star Trek episode
0:03:44right Scott so it's we know all about
0:03:46ready or you know that they have that in
0:03:48common but I you know I think I movies
0:03:50fine then then there's star trek
0:03:52insurrection and start their star trek
0:03:55nemesis and what you said that the
0:03:58differences like killed franchise dead
0:04:00but insurrection is where we're going to
0:04:02start with these are the assigned assign
0:04:04films for this time since Star Trek
0:04:05insurrection you know it's like an
0:04:08episode of Star Trek The Next Generation
0:04:10they the data seems to have gone rogue
0:04:14and is shooting up a village it's very
0:04:16much like that is who watches the
0:04:18Watchers Scott is that is that the
0:04:19episode where there
0:04:21oh yeah there's like the Federation duck
0:04:23blind in a pre-contact civilization and
0:04:25they're kind of all all shielded and and
0:04:27it's a little bit like that except and
0:04:30indeed has kind of gone Rogan is
0:04:32exposing the Federation people who are
0:04:34there along with this race we've never
0:04:36heard of or seen before the sona sona
0:04:39that they are observing the Baku in the
0:04:41briar patch which is an area of space
0:04:43that is different some help
0:04:46yeah so nice just how we say sonar here
0:04:49involve
0:04:49yeah just I feel like I have a history
0:04:53of having positive things to say number
0:04:57things that many geeks don't like I am
0:05:00blank this week I got nothing if one
0:05:02that will help me and bri doesn't have
0:05:04anything that is a very bad hits over so
0:05:07well I mean in the plot structure gives
0:05:09insurrection essentially what it turns
0:05:10out is that this planet just like the
0:05:12fountain of youth and the Federation and
0:05:14these people the SONA who we've never
0:05:16heard of before that I it really sticks
0:05:18with me it's like oh it's a brand new
0:05:20alien race who's got starships and we've
0:05:22never heard of him before but here they
0:05:23are
0:05:24it always bugged me but we make a deal
0:05:26with them essentially because they want
0:05:28a profit
0:05:29everyone wants to profit from blowing up
0:05:31the the special things special rings
0:05:33around this planet that uh that create a
0:05:36fountain of youth and picard and his
0:05:38crew basically repel against this
0:05:40Federation Admiral and the SONA who were
0:05:42there and they fight this insurrection
0:05:45to save the indigenous people on the
0:05:47planet and then its complexity because
0:05:49it turns out that the SONA are actually
0:05:51part of the race of people on that
0:05:53planet who were dissidents I'm Sports
0:05:55West dissidents and they left and then
0:05:59they became obsessed with
0:06:00plastic-surgery not my favorite thing in
0:06:02the movie anyway that's what that's what
0:06:05Star Trek insurrection is there's you
0:06:06know if murray Abraham and and and
0:06:08patrick stewart fight in a scaffold in
0:06:11space and that Ryker gets a shave
0:06:15dr. precious dr. Crusher's boobs firm up
0:06:20I i was wondering if you're going to
0:06:21mention think I'm glad no one used on
0:06:24learning the intro second I thought
0:06:25about using that line and like even
0:06:28Brianna Wu doesn't have the gall to say
0:06:30that it's weird the redeeming quality of
0:06:33it is that it's it's it's crusher and
0:06:35Troy talking about the transforming up
0:06:37and data is overhearing them and that
0:06:40part is actually kind of funny because
0:06:41its data and data is like I'm trying to
0:06:44process this and I thought that part was
0:06:46was funny be any it is so weird and then
0:06:49covers are them singing like for the
0:06:51starfish like Captain Picard saves the
0:06:55day by sticking two more
0:06:58oh so here's the thing about this this
0:07:01this is that
0:07:02I think I I kind was watching this with
0:07:05my girlfriend and we were talking about
0:07:06i think the thing that comes down to is
0:07:07like you know if you're TNG fan as we
0:07:09both were and you start watching this
0:07:12it's it's like watching your parents try
0:07:14to be cool with all the scenes where
0:07:16they're young it's embarrassing i get
0:07:18those awkward part of it is watching all
0:07:20of them run around like teenagers and
0:07:22you're like oh Jesus God have some
0:07:23reason for this album bowl is difficult
0:07:27i know it's going to pull an
0:07:29embarrassing like I don't want to be
0:07:31seen with these people
0:07:33yeah you know and i'm not going to say
0:07:35interaction is good but i actually
0:07:38enjoyed watching it I didn't have any
0:07:40and there's a bunch of silly stuff in it
0:07:41but I got it I got to see a couple
0:07:43actors I like donna murphy donna murphy
0:07:46she's she was Juliet in center stage
0:07:48which is my favorite dance movie of all
0:07:50time so I enjoyed watching her and then
0:07:53i even i was proud of myself because
0:07:55underneath all of the other makeup I
0:07:57recognize Greg Henry no yeah Jim
0:07:59huntzberger on Gilmore Girls is so so
0:08:02yeah but i had things that i was able to
0:08:04latch onto it was pretty like I want to
0:08:06go to that planet i wanna live there i
0:08:08gotta say i don't think the second-worst
0:08:09star trek movie next generation movie is
0:08:12nearly as bad as the second-worst
0:08:13original crew movie i think i think its
0:08:16direction is really mediocre and I think
0:08:18there are a lot of things that are
0:08:19terrible about it which we should
0:08:21probably list i'll throw out some of my
0:08:23Nana please join in the reasons that
0:08:25this movie is bad the data playing in
0:08:28the hay with a little boy with the cgi
0:08:30animal I I find that really creepy and
0:08:33weird and I don't like it in any way i
0:08:36can someone explain the time freezing
0:08:39thing that makes no sense I kind of I
0:08:41think that's kind of poet i mean the
0:08:42idea is like you have a perfect moment
0:08:43in time seems to stand still on it turns
0:08:45out that they have like the ability to
0:08:47freeze time through the power of I don't
0:08:49know their advanced smarter than us the
0:08:51power to ya laters out how to do i doing
0:08:55that kind of poetic even though it makes
0:08:56no sense that the other thing that
0:08:58really bugs me is the is the SONA i'm in
0:09:00Sona bug me the the idea that they are
0:09:03unrecognizable but they're obsessed with
0:09:05plastic surgery okay here's the thing
0:09:06that they're plastic surgery I it seems
0:09:10so broad as an idea this idea of trying
0:09:12to remain young but they don't look
0:09:13young
0:09:14they look
0:09:15weird it's like for real for weird and
0:09:18so it happened we were meant to take
0:09:20them seriously
0:09:22on one level and yet it's also this
0:09:24incredibly like broad satire on another
0:09:27level and that but just completely
0:09:28breaks down for me that can I defend
0:09:30them with with three words on on Beth's
0:09:34owners Jeff one of the words it's it's
0:09:37pimping space couch is these are the
0:09:39three words which is mr Abraham's got a
0:09:42couch on his fringe which is awesome
0:09:44just try I made note of that I've got a
0:09:49rare point of agreement the thing I
0:09:52don't get about the SONA is that they're
0:09:53this this race this that has this
0:09:55beautiful should not be stopped how many
0:09:57yeah how many people were there on this
0:09:59colony that were booted out to be able
0:10:02to be seen by the Federation a hundred
0:10:04years 10 years eve looks really sick
0:10:07people it doesn't make it doesn't make
0:10:09any sense that it would be better if the
0:10:12people on the planet the Baku were like
0:10:15the hippies who left their warlike race
0:10:18and found this paradise and wouldn't let
0:10:21anybody else you know and you know and
0:10:23nobody else wanted to come there
0:10:24something like that might have been a
0:10:26better dynamic but the idea that there's
0:10:28this powerful race that we've never seen
0:10:29before in star track and in a hundred
0:10:31years they formed and we've lost track
0:10:33of where they came from
0:10:34it's kind of ridiculous I mean it is
0:10:36they're just trying to backtrack it to
0:10:37get the story to work then and it
0:10:39doesn't make any sense and then yet
0:10:41again the satire I get the satire
0:10:43reminds me a little bit of Erika king dr
0:10:46who the in the the end the world where
0:10:48there's the the cassandra is a that her
0:10:51name right yep that's and she said she's
0:10:53a character who is the she is the
0:10:55ultimate expression of plastic surgery
0:10:57she's skin on a trampoline frame
0:10:59essentially it is varying human it is
0:11:02very funny and very broad but and I was
0:11:06thinking of that when i watch the book
0:11:08the the SONA because it's like that it's
0:11:10like except they're they're supposed to
0:11:12be taken seriously while being
0:11:14ridiculous and it's just it's just it's
0:11:16too bad because I think a lot of the
0:11:17movie is perfectly fine as in like a
0:11:19next generation episode it's define it
0:11:23in the degree of difficulty I think it's
0:11:25a degree of difficulty thing like you
0:11:28know making this
0:11:29I feel like you said well it's a long
0:11:30episode so in some ways it doesn't
0:11:33require quite as much ingenuity or
0:11:37stretching or any sort of yeah of itself
0:11:40it's it's fine but it's not a
0:11:42particularly difficult concept or really
0:11:45you know yeah I don't think it's
0:11:47particularly complexes and that's fine
0:11:48and the action bits are super lazy they
0:11:50do prefigure drones a little bit which I
0:11:52thought was kind of cool thing seeing it
0:11:54now some of the scenes are terrible like
0:11:55the spinning in the shuttles just made
0:11:57me nauseous
0:11:58no just run around each other I I think
0:12:01like a lot of the you know a lot of the
0:12:03cg of the nineties and say this is
0:12:05someone who does this for a living
0:12:07a lot of cg the nineties doesn't hold up
0:12:10because we didn't have in things like
0:12:11new Carlotta the advance on color
0:12:14matching things if i want to say like
0:12:16I'm trying to think of anything possible
0:12:18if you could say about this movie I
0:12:20think this particular version of the
0:12:22enterprise is probably the best one from
0:12:25a design perspective yeah i love you
0:12:27work for me
0:12:28yeah yeah it'sit's that came up and this
0:12:30is really interesting technically I they
0:12:32had certain technologies to really
0:12:35create lots of detail on the whole of
0:12:38this ship and it really shots in the
0:12:39design like it's it's like when you're
0:12:42watching episode 7 of Star Wars and
0:12:44they're flying through the the surface
0:12:46of like a Star Destroyer you can see
0:12:47that much detail of it looks better that
0:12:50technology this was when they first
0:12:52started doing that for like Star Trek
0:12:54and I think that successful put so bad
0:12:58to have all the fight scenes and
0:13:00everything the entire movie just not
0:13:01make any sense so bad that it ruins it
0:13:04either i do like I mean mentioned on
0:13:06Murphy I like Don Murphy I like her
0:13:08exchanges with the card I think that
0:13:11kind of their kind of interesting this
0:13:13truly like I mean it as an old like like
0:13:17like Frank actually Brianna old-school
0:13:21TOS Star Trek fan it reminded me that a
0:13:24little bit is like you know the captain
0:13:26goes down on the planet and there's a
0:13:27woman down there who you know but in
0:13:29this case donna murphy she's kind of
0:13:30super wise because it turns out she's
0:13:31the older woman she's like several
0:13:33hundred years old and I thought that was
0:13:36an interesting give-and-take and I also
0:13:38like the fact that they cast a 40 year
0:13:40old woman in that part and not
0:13:42not a 20 year old woman because you
0:13:43could argue that if they're eternally
0:13:45young they should all look 20 years old
0:13:47but they didn't do that and I thought
0:13:49she was great in it
0:13:51I you know the shoes me ASAP let's be
0:13:54honest like she's ridiculously gorgeous
0:13:56oh yeah she's fantastic it's it i really
0:13:59love i really love that that's it's all
0:14:01rolled into gether I i love less the the
0:14:04kind of really boring action scenes
0:14:06where they're picking off drones and
0:14:08running through caves and fighting in a
0:14:10in a big frame with Emory Abraham very
0:14:14good insurrection because they are
0:14:16eating hundreds of people across an open
0:14:18field when the enemy has a spaceship
0:14:22with scanner still like strengthen them
0:14:25yeah well they're used to having a lot
0:14:27of technology so they're feeling a
0:14:28little disadvantage i also love that
0:14:29when they show up to stop the card from
0:14:31going rogue
0:14:32he's like 40 and Riker you guys stay
0:14:34behind fortunately you're already
0:14:36wearing your uniform
0:14:37it's like you like this i noticed that
0:14:40we really need each other that was kind
0:14:42of mistake they should have been it
0:14:43would have been funny but they should
0:14:45have been ready with their City clothes
0:14:46and being like up i guess we gotta
0:14:48change back into our uniforms the writer
0:14:50has a sweet leisure suit somewhere come
0:14:52on man
0:14:53although again I gotta say Riker the one
0:14:56of the things that makes me cringe in
0:14:57this movie is Riker and Troy in the
0:15:00bathtub in the shaving yes I just really
0:15:03horny because they're in the briar patch
0:15:05but it's like these movies are heavy on
0:15:08the the sex scenes you never really want
0:15:11well six iterations appeal was all about
0:15:14Riker and Troy's relationship right
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0:17:42your account thank you to IT pro TV for
0:17:45sponsoring the incomparable I like being
0:17:48that the the indication that this
0:17:50society this is no planetary society is
0:17:53so advanced in like really you know
0:17:55they're all coordinated stuff is that
0:17:57they play hacky sack like a bunch of
0:17:58college freshman yeah but really good at
0:18:00their really congratulate act like man
0:18:02also dates and the fact that it's an
0:18:04entire planet surrounded by the fountain
0:18:06of youth rings but there's only like six
0:18:08hundred people on the whole planet right
0:18:09me you could just just come down just
0:18:12just hang out make it make a resort spa
0:18:15right which apparently wasn't related
0:18:17scene where there's enough room wasn't
0:18:19then they just invite the SONA to live
0:18:21yeah with them well the card even says
0:18:24that add to the Admiral and he says Oh
0:18:26altered condition is so bad at this
0:18:27point that it would take them ten years
0:18:29before they even saw any benefit from
0:18:31that and they would start dying by then
0:18:32they don't want to do that so that much
0:18:33either just blow up the planet really
0:18:35seems like a script note right where
0:18:36somebody we found a plot hole when they
0:18:38just insert a line of dialogue say oh no
0:18:40we can't do that yet these states are so
0:18:43incredibly low need to have different
0:18:45line
0:18:45how low are they didn't have that moment
0:18:47where I thought you know although i
0:18:49complained a lot about on Star Trek and
0:18:51doctor who actually the idea that every
0:18:54story has to be about the fate of here
0:18:56the fate of the world favorite human
0:18:58race the fate of the universe
0:18:59I don't have that moment an insurrection
0:19:01where I'm like fate of 500 people
0:19:04well it is a movie I mean like you said
0:19:07it it should be bigger than that because
0:19:09it feels it just feels like a regular
0:19:11episode that happens to be a little bit
0:19:13longer
0:19:14I mean that does give us that nice see
0:19:16where Picard is like how many people
0:19:17does it take for it to matter it has a
0:19:19good scene that's true that's a good
0:19:21scene so I like they are there are some
0:19:23there are some good things in here I
0:19:24also liked Georgie seeing a sunrise with
0:19:26his real ID yes that was Jordan is
0:19:28always my painting that was a really
0:19:29good yeah thats related everything
0:19:31Beverly with a gun taking out those
0:19:33little robots and enjoying the heck out
0:19:35of me that was super fun for me as a as
0:19:37a fan of hers or speaking majority again
0:19:40the moment where he rejects the warp
0:19:42core before he's even ordered to that
0:19:44was a good woman already got it at yep
0:19:46what am I for one of my biggest pet
0:19:47peeves about what any kind of any kind
0:19:50of military or star trek or science
0:19:53fiction show is that quite often it
0:19:55takes forever from the time that the
0:19:57captain gives the order for something to
0:19:59actually happen it has to be related
0:20:01through at least one other person before
0:20:02all but I wished and then suddenly like
0:20:04you know that there's a huge scene with
0:20:06that nemesis hunt for red october i love
0:20:09that Georgie just jumped the gun and
0:20:10he's like no needed to be done I didn't
0:20:12you know wash my hands and there's a
0:20:13moment of realization like yep all right
0:20:15onto
0:20:16do you think about this movie i think
0:20:17especially in comparison to the movie
0:20:18will talk to you in a moment is the this
0:20:22is really well served by like all the
0:20:24characters are really well served by
0:20:26this movie I feel like even if it's in
0:20:27sometimes ridiculous ways
0:20:29everybody gets a couple scenes and it
0:20:32feels like there's some character
0:20:33development like these feel like the
0:20:34characters that we know from the show
0:20:36i'll be it you know kind of under a
0:20:39weird influence of this whole planet
0:20:41region whatever but like you get to see
0:20:42all the characters you get to see them
0:20:44interact you know you get and and that I
0:20:46think use kind of lacking in the other
0:20:49movie
0:20:50yeah but i will say that i do feel kind
0:20:52of bad for gates mcfadden because she
0:20:54had been played for a long time is this
0:20:56love interest with the car yeah and we
0:20:59let me about this Joe yeah when one of
0:21:01my episodes that I really love is when
0:21:03they get bonded with the telepathic link
0:21:05thing and abducted on that planet and
0:21:07our wandering around and so they get to
0:21:10know each other and all that stuff in a
0:21:11relationship that's building up and then
0:21:13in this movie it's just like yeah
0:21:14whatever we're just hanging out and I'm
0:21:16gonna go shoot some drones over here and
0:21:17stand for people with the tricorder yep
0:21:19that's it
0:21:20well I me and he's like yeah but Donna
0:21:22Murphy is right here so yeah she's
0:21:24helping him with like his collar and the
0:21:25first scene and you feel like oh maybe
0:21:26they don't like decided to make a go of
0:21:28it I always shipped them so hmm well
0:21:31speaking of that first thing I really
0:21:33like how war shows up and parts like
0:21:35what are you doing here warfare that how
0:21:37are you doing it over
0:21:38they don't care they shipped to another
0:21:40thing you don't even hear what he says
0:21:41it doesn't matter well here I what
0:21:43worried about war shows up whenever
0:21:44there's a movie that's going to be shot
0:21:46because they gotta give him back because
0:21:47they're going to explain in the deep
0:21:48deep space nine chronology which is a
0:21:50little bit confusing but it had I like
0:21:52I'm glad they do it and not like what
0:21:54why is mr. Worf not in the Star Trek
0:21:55movies well because he was on TV no no
0:21:57we're going to bring it back and put it
0:21:58in the movies TV I think TV plays a big
0:22:01part in when we look at any of the next
0:22:03generation movies because the original
0:22:05Star Trek was off the air for 10 years
0:22:07and then they came back and they made a
0:22:08bunch of movies i think one of the
0:22:09challenges with all these
0:22:10next-generation movies is it was a cast
0:22:13of a TV show and they they finished the
0:22:15TV show and said well every couple of
0:22:17years we'll come back and we'll make a
0:22:18movie with you guys and and they did
0:22:21that 44 movies and it makes I feel like
0:22:25it's kind of a degree of difficulty
0:22:27increase on that front because you're
0:22:29always going to just say this is just
0:22:31like a TV episode but the fact is you
0:22:34know it
0:22:35this is this movie of all the Star Trek
0:22:37movies that were made feels the most
0:22:39like a TV episode I mean and it's like
0:22:41you know in a 24 episode season you can
0:22:45like there's a rhythm to star trek right
0:22:47like a season comes out we all accept
0:22:49that making only about a third of them
0:22:51are going to be good you know that you
0:22:53just you know that but i think it's it's
0:22:56really interesting to look at the the
0:22:58historical time that was going on here
0:23:00with the the trek franchise because
0:23:02there were a lot of rumors back then and
0:23:05there was a lot of people advocating for
0:23:07there being a voyeur movie and they were
0:23:09talking about Voyager maybe trying to
0:23:10take over the home after the mtng movies
0:23:13had really run their course and because
0:23:15these two movies are so bad i feel like
0:23:19it really it's like you said it really
0:23:21hurt the franchise for a really long
0:23:22time and you just you can't forgive this
0:23:26level of just cheese in a star trek
0:23:29movie like I understand not every star
0:23:31trek movie needs to be a hyper serious
0:23:34first content with tina those high
0:23:38stakes
0:23:39I understand that like some of them are
0:23:40going to be the voyage home and be a
0:23:42little more comical this one just failed
0:23:46like there's there's very little they
0:23:47succeeded at and that that makes me very
0:23:49sad
0:23:50are you saying that you think the manual
0:23:52steering control being a joystick yeah
0:23:55okay just wanna be why would you not
0:23:58just go up to the helm and control the
0:24:00helmet your writer and you think that
0:24:02but instead they have this thing that
0:24:03comes out of the floor of a joystick why
0:24:05do you have that all the time but they
0:24:07have a lot yeah there's a lot of that
0:24:09we're in this movie especially and I
0:24:10think again you're thinking of it as a
0:24:12TV show you like why did you do that and
0:24:14the answers we have money to do that so
0:24:16we did that and it's not a good it's not
0:24:18a good enough reason
0:24:19also the tent and we'll get to this with
0:24:20nemesis as well but i want to point out
0:24:23the tenuous of Star Trek as as a film
0:24:26franchise the fact that paramount in the
0:24:30eighties and nineties and early two
0:24:32thousands uh was this close like
0:24:35structure to was developed as a TV movie
0:24:37right and they finally decided to make a
0:24:39feature film every for all that we
0:24:42talked about this weird
0:24:43it's about how there was the even movies
0:24:45are good and the odd movies are are are
0:24:47not as good
0:24:48um the first time the even and odd
0:24:52movies were bad they ended it that was
0:24:55it being so they were always like one
0:24:57away from being shut down the the
0:24:59budgets weren't that great i mean you
0:25:00look at these movies they look ok the
0:25:02budgets weren't weren't were were ok but
0:25:06they weren't also like super blockbuster
0:25:08budgets they never really were after the
0:25:10motion picture it's just interesting to
0:25:12think of we think of Star Trek as this
0:25:14eternal franchise in so many different
0:25:16ways and yet during this period they
0:25:20were right on the edge of getting thrown
0:25:21out the door every single time and in
0:25:24fact nemesis has it has a different
0:25:26screen writer and a different director
0:25:27because they basically said we need to
0:25:29do something to shake this up and then
0:25:31when that stiffed they just said forget
0:25:33it we're gonna go back to the drawing
0:25:34it's just so weird to think that like
0:25:36not being able to make money on Star
0:25:37Trek given the high level of devoted
0:25:39fanbase that it has right and looking at
0:25:41the huge number of sci-fi franchises
0:25:43that we've had since then it's just it's
0:25:45kind of mind-boggling but you're totally
0:25:46right like that was the climate of the
0:25:48times i remember going to see this in
0:25:49the movie theater and being really
0:25:51excited about another star trek movie
0:25:52especially after first contact and it
0:25:55was just a that came out this going on
0:25:57was that
0:25:58yeah yeah I actually liked it better
0:26:01this time watching it and I good when I
0:26:02saw in the theater because when i was in
0:26:04the theater I had high hopes for it when
0:26:06i watch out today I mean this is an
0:26:08episode called bad Star Trek movies like
0:26:10I do I wasn't in for much so it didn't
0:26:12have any expectations to live up to its
0:26:14an episode with a big budget that's
0:26:16basically I mean that's my biggest
0:26:18criticism of it actually is i can
0:26:19complain about the SONA and I and the
0:26:21little cgi woodchuck or whatever his put
0:26:23but really it's just you know that's why
0:26:27i don't think it's particularly bad up
0:26:29or bad episode see what i just said a
0:26:31bad movie it's just it's not a movie
0:26:33it's just kind of there it's an episode
0:26:36of Star Trek The Next Generation with a
0:26:37bigger budget and it's not special and
0:26:40next-generation you know and not every
0:26:41episode Embry was saying this about you
0:26:43know not every episode needs to be
0:26:45special went into TV series but one of
0:26:47the movie it kind of needs to be special
0:26:49and insurrection is not it's just not
0:26:52know it and there
0:26:54an additional element to this win the
0:26:56started coming out when Star Wars was
0:26:59also coming out like this is there's a
0:27:01six-month separation between this and
0:27:02the Phantom Menace ah and with nemesis
0:27:05was the same year is a attack of the
0:27:07clones and even though
0:27:09attack of the clones horrible movie how
0:27:10he just in terms of like the the pop
0:27:14culture awareness of everyone you know
0:27:16tuning into something with with science
0:27:18fiction film it's just like why would
0:27:19you pay attention to either these two
0:27:21star trek movies over that
0:27:23yeah I mean there's so many reasons I I
0:27:24feel like now maybe the climate is
0:27:26actually a little bit better we did that
0:27:27episode of the uncomfortable while ago
0:27:29about the the new star trek see TV
0:27:32series coming from CBS and you know if
0:27:35you talk about if you listen to what
0:27:36paramount is saying about the star trek
0:27:39film franchise it's entirely possible i
0:27:41mean that they're starting it could go
0:27:42bad but they're they're starting to
0:27:44think about like what if Star Trek was
0:27:45Abe wider universe more like Star Wars
0:27:48or the Marvel movies and they had
0:27:50different movies that were not tied to
0:27:53just uh you know just the the TV shows
0:27:57or the the classic characters and the
0:27:59funny thing is any Star Trek fans going
0:28:01to say well of course Star Trek's always
0:28:03been bigger than anyone show but it
0:28:05seems to have taken the success of the
0:28:07Marvel movies and then you know looking
0:28:09at what they're doing with Star Wars for
0:28:11the stewards of the franchise to say oh
0:28:13you know what we could probably do that
0:28:15the star track and so now they're
0:28:17figuring it out but you know Star Trek
0:28:18could have been the Marvel movies in the
0:28:20nineties or the 2,000 if they had had
0:28:23some vision but instead they just felt
0:28:25like it was a continuation of a TV show
0:28:26and how broad is a movie based on a TV
0:28:29show
0:28:30I mean I don't know maybe the entourage
0:28:31movie did really well it didn't but you
0:28:34know it's it's a limited audience so I
0:28:36don't know I feel like the kind of
0:28:37painting themselves in a corner and
0:28:39maybe they finally figured out now but
0:28:40it is it just seemed like an awful waste
0:28:42to to go through all this and end up
0:28:44with no you didn't even mention i
0:28:45believe the budgets for these star trek
0:28:47movies a fraction of the Star Wars
0:28:49movies
0:28:50oh yeah so this was a 58 million for
0:28:52insurrection and
0:28:53a phantom menace i think was a hundred
0:28:55and well or something like that so you
0:28:58know so you know you compare them on
0:29:00screen and for all we can say about the
0:29:02Phantom Menace it a little it sounds
0:29:05great it looks great it's got all these
0:29:07I can explain exactly what things about
0:29:08the man tonight not happy
0:29:10motion denied even I am done defending
0:29:15the prequels after seeing episode 7
0:29:17alike yet there can be good Star Wars
0:29:19movies around alkaline trio story
0:29:22yeah technically episode one spectacular
0:29:24technically spectacular and then you
0:29:26look at insurrection you're like CGI
0:29:28here's is terrible it's really hot so ya
0:29:31can compare droid armies to the little
0:29:34flying drone things actually that was a
0:29:36hard one of the things that really got
0:29:38my goat was it the little flying drone
0:29:39things and that obnoxious scene where we
0:29:41get the pan across everybody has their
0:29:43reading reading their weapons
0:29:44the Browns are just sitting there
0:29:45waiting the camera for any surprise our
0:29:48heroes and then they start so you know
0:29:50there's a pan happening we've got to
0:29:51stop the data nice to his jump and shoot
0:29:53thing it's gonna be really really
0:29:55dramatically shooter
0:29:57let me take a break to tell you about
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0:31:44the incomparable what is with the
0:31:46Western thing Dave's got like a saddle
0:31:48up line and you know I like that length
0:31:50so when we talk about what did with data
0:31:51what all the characters doing this data
0:31:53is the plot mechanic for a while because
0:31:55he's kind of malfunctioning but it turns
0:31:57out that his his moral and ethical
0:31:59subroutines take over whenever he's
0:32:01damaged ok but but at the end or in that
0:32:05scene in the captain's yacht which was
0:32:06by the way always on the blueprints of
0:32:08the enterprise was that there was a
0:32:09captain's yacht and we never saw it and
0:32:11as a fan of of the next generation that
0:32:14was always a little theoretically on the
0:32:15bottom of the saucer there's this
0:32:16captain's yacht nobody ever talked about
0:32:18it in this movie the card is packing in
0:32:21the stuff and all that was supposed to
0:32:23feel like diplomacy I don't know Dan I
0:32:25don't know why they have the captain but
0:32:27they do but there's a great that that's
0:32:29a great moment when they point out well
0:32:32data says everybody else here is feeling
0:32:35the effects so they may be having
0:32:37youthful rebellious tendencies but not
0:32:40me and progresses well what about you
0:32:42David he's like lock and load
0:32:43saddle up let's do it and that's a great
0:32:45that is actually a legitimately great
0:32:47moment in the movie because it is he is
0:32:49he is completely logical and says we
0:32:52need to we need to do this insurrection
0:32:54and I like that part that's that's a
0:32:56nice moment together it makes me cringe
0:32:59I don't love the dialogue I don't like a
0:33:02saddle saddle up with brent Spiner I
0:33:04don't like that but i like i like the
0:33:06moments leading up to it i do I let the
0:33:07idea that data is you know David's got
0:33:10something to say here that he's totally
0:33:12you know he's totally not affected by
0:33:14this he doesn't have a Gorch or anything
0:33:16like that
0:33:17did anything he well he's already been
0:33:20interest mood as an interest that and
0:33:23yeah the jokes the jokes I would watch
0:33:27the webseries settle up with brent
0:33:29Spiner anyway i don't know i mean it is
0:33:34it fair to say that this is not you know
0:33:36it's not it's not a grotesquely bad
0:33:39movie it's just kind of there
0:33:40you know i will say this i enjoyed the
0:33:42music all the way through insurrection
0:33:44and that is not something i can say
0:33:46about the next film Argo one of the sad
0:33:48things about all of these bad Star Trek
0:33:50movies all four of them that we watched
0:33:52are scored by Jerry Goldsmith who is a
0:33:54hero is 82 up your professional and i
0:33:56will say the part I didn't notice the
0:33:57one part I really music stood out to me
0:33:58is when I Worf beats up some guy and
0:34:02they give you a call back to the Klingon
0:34:04yeah throne hits the drone with a phaser
0:34:07rifle and ditto back to and from the
0:34:10original motion picture which is a great
0:34:12area i mean i will be the score for the
0:34:15motion picture is fantasy it is the
0:34:17jerry goldsmith works on work on that is
0:34:19among his best and it's great having
0:34:21school administrators movies i don't
0:34:24know i think that was a what happened to
0:34:27your citizens will well I guess we'll
0:34:29get there it's I sorry Jerry Goldsmith
0:34:31you you weren't the problem but uh
0:34:34thatthat's that is it Jerry Goldsmith
0:34:37through with this movie
0:34:39ok let's talk about Star Trek nemesis
0:34:41let's do it
0:34:42Star Trek Star Trek 10 we according to
0:34:45some star trek nemesis i believe the
0:34:48title says star teac menaces because
0:34:50they have a Russian are ok that works on
0:34:52it was a toys r us ad the ads for to
0:34:56that to the namespace directed by stuart
0:34:59bear you may know him from u.s. marshals
0:35:03written by john logan the the
0:35:06screenwriter of gladiator which I would
0:35:08say is one of the worst best picture
0:35:10winners of all time I just watched it
0:35:13recently for the first time ever here
0:35:15here's my one word review gladiator you
0:35:17ready
0:35:17Battier later oh I see what you did
0:35:21yesterday and the other one I mean this
0:35:24is a guy who also wrote Specter Skyfall
0:35:26Hugo I mean in some there's some decent
0:35:30movies there maybe not great movies but
0:35:32there he's a he's not a terrible writer
0:35:34he has written some decent movie its
0:35:36interests will be tornado they brought
0:35:39in paper interview that's about
0:35:40explanation they um they brought in new
0:35:42director jonathan frakes director the
0:35:44last two they brought in John Logan
0:35:46although the score story credit is with
0:35:48Rick Berman who was the guy who was like
0:35:50the Running Start rack after Gene
0:35:52Roddenberry died and brent Spiner has a
0:35:55story credit here which is also bizarre
0:35:58and a bad sign i would say whenever one
0:36:01of your cast members sorry start start
0:36:03beyond Simon Pegg screenplay credit um
0:36:07the so stark nemesis the whole premise
0:36:11here is Tom Hardy it's years before he
0:36:13was bein sorry like work before he was
0:36:15building dog man is is a clone of
0:36:19Captain Picard who's for some reason
0:36:23they were gonna try to replace Captain
0:36:25Picard and the but just as we meet him
0:36:28he's starting to decay and die from
0:36:30failed cloning something-or-other anyway
0:36:34up one of RNA Jason his or his RNA thank
0:36:37you rule anyway so he's he's compile or
0:36:40RNA sequence with the Riemann's who were
0:36:41like next to the Romulans but not the
0:36:44Romulans mental kind of like vampires
0:36:47from buffy the vampire slayer' and duck
0:36:49and and what's in ron perlman is helpful
0:36:53at TVs hellboy sorry movies hellboy is
0:36:55the Viceroy has his pal
0:36:57I don't know they have a plan to destroy
0:37:00everybody with this weapon that is
0:37:02creepy and they lower the enterprise
0:37:06with eighth a data prototype called
0:37:09before uh
0:37:11at which they leave on a planet which
0:37:13leads to a very exciting except not
0:37:15exciting at all dune buggy scenes it was
0:37:18interminable and then in the end they
0:37:21crashed the ships together and data
0:37:22sacrifices himself to phaser the thing
0:37:25and blow it up and then they say we give
0:37:29up and there are no more next generation
0:37:31the movies I think that's pretty much
0:37:32how this one ok so i had a couple
0:37:34comments about this is off the top one
0:37:36it's it's actually a much better looking
0:37:38movie than insurrection and gases just
0:37:40interim looks like a TV episode
0:37:42this looks like a movie there are some
0:37:44good i mean like patrick stewart and i'm
0:37:47sitting on the Box looks like a movie
0:37:51I mean that's restored and tom hardy
0:37:53both good actors and i actually had like
0:37:56the premise that there is like a clone
0:37:58of the card like that's kind of a cool
0:37:59entry direction I know although i will
0:38:01say the Porco's again saga did that same
0:38:03plot much better and the idea that you
0:38:06have scenes work Picard his clone are
0:38:09doing like hello I'm just like you it
0:38:12sounds like those students would be good
0:38:14right it's so boring it's so worried why
0:38:18is this boring i can't figure it out it
0:38:20should be good but it's boring haha
0:38:23every time that they're talking about
0:38:25how they're very similar it's like
0:38:26they're not actually similar at all the
0:38:30words pet restored impression ever will
0:38:32very much like you and I captain you
0:38:34have a note we are you have a chin with
0:38:36a cleft and I have a PCM no hair just
0:38:38like to look left so we're very similar
0:38:41I felt like Captain Picard is more
0:38:44especially by this point is life more
0:38:45self-aware and more self-assured then
0:38:48was required for this plot so they just
0:38:50don't him down and make sure of himself
0:38:52so that he could have this elusive moral
0:38:55dilemma that just does not play the
0:38:58board the lemon or the lumber is like
0:39:00what i have done this it's like that's
0:39:01not even relevant
0:39:03definitely like okay so what I would
0:39:06have done this so i should give him a
0:39:07pass i'm just killing in Kentucky you
0:39:09know I Tom party tom hardy is given a
0:39:12very difficult this month
0:39:13Tom Hardy's very first roles he's given
0:39:15a difficult job he isn't makeup to try
0:39:18to make them look a little more like
0:39:19patrick stewart young Patrick Stewart
0:39:22when I apparently that's James McAvoy I
0:39:25sorry franchise my girlfriend actually
0:39:28thought it was James McAvoy for a moment
0:39:30I was like that's weird
0:39:32so is it but you know I IE tries and
0:39:35there are some moments with him that are
0:39:36kind of interesting but you're right the
0:39:37problem is that I that Patrick Stewart
0:39:41has got it so together to what you
0:39:42really want is like decisions on
0:39:44legitimately struggling with being a
0:39:48good person or kind of following the
0:39:50goals of his Viceroy and because there's
0:39:53this is this implication that the
0:39:55Riemann's are these put up on people
0:39:57there bends the slaves to the Romulans
0:39:58and now they're having a revolt and and
0:40:01yet it gets caught up in this kind of
0:40:02like button Bond villain ask i'm going
0:40:04to destroy Earth thing instead of like
0:40:06let's right the wrongs in the Romulan
0:40:08Empire it would have been an interesting
0:40:10story if the idea was like Picard trying
0:40:12to to steer his clone essentially his
0:40:15twin into making the right choices
0:40:17instead of the wrong choices but instead
0:40:19the heat you know he's just a James Bond
0:40:22villain it's all part of a plot before
0:40:24has been poisoned with bad information
0:40:26to make him a spy it except there's a
0:40:29double-cross and in the end they kind of
0:40:31waste this whole premise of of Picard is
0:40:37clone and like nature versus nurture
0:40:38it's just in the end it's just kind of
0:40:40why even do it and they make data stupid
0:40:43the reason that this whole thing off its
0:40:45fake data thing comes in is it suddenly
0:40:47for some reason data is dumb enough he
0:40:49doesn't think to change his passwords
0:40:50before like know what really gets me is
0:40:55have any of you ever read the original
0:40:57Star Trek nemesis script with where it
0:41:01wasn't before it was benign has yeah I
0:41:03had repaired that's great with benign
0:41:05yeah it is this is what fundamentally
0:41:08can't understand because before this
0:41:10movie came out this was the era when
0:41:12like dinner where scripts are being
0:41:15leaked on the Internet
0:41:16it was really big problem yeah I read
0:41:19the generation script like us a year
0:41:21before it came out absolutely so we were
0:41:23all doing that and i remember reading
0:41:25this and thinking my god this is really
0:41:29this is gonna be a powerful movie like
0:41:31they're gonna kill the the Romulan
0:41:34Senate it's like you said Jason they're
0:41:36all these scenes with like Picard and
0:41:38his clone like really feeling like
0:41:41echoes of each other and the dialogue is
0:41:42really sharp and and painful and then I
0:41:45remember going to the theater go
0:41:47what happened did get a sort of rider
0:41:50hid themselves in the head with
0:41:52something
0:41:53what is going on here i I don't
0:41:56understand because this is a very power
0:41:58this is story that could be told
0:42:01extremely extremely well there's no
0:42:03premise that is so good it can't be
0:42:05flooded and there's no premise that's so
0:42:07bad it can't be done well this is an
0:42:10exceptional idea and it's like Tom Hardy
0:42:14is an exceptional actor in other things
0:42:17I think so it's clearly not him is an
0:42:20actor unless he was just drastically
0:42:22works back then it got some good
0:42:23training I I don't understand what
0:42:26happened here
0:42:27I look like I'm letting this i will say
0:42:30this for nemesis that in that first
0:42:32scene when you were looking at the the
0:42:33Romulan senator whatever it's it's
0:42:36already better as far as I women's
0:42:38representation and places of power than
0:42:40star trek into darkness was yeah I'm
0:42:42just ready to have another both of these
0:42:44are then in in both gender and diversity
0:42:48well no no it gets it gets much worse
0:42:49for the rest of the movie
0:42:51yeah because that's 10 Romulan woman
0:42:53using her sexiness to try to get yeah
0:42:55and then we get a dream rape scene that
0:42:59that is we are destroyed that choice but
0:43:01i didn't really present for a minute I
0:43:04was i am not going to say it was okay
0:43:05with it but for a minute when it's troy
0:43:07that actually gets to be the one who
0:43:09uses her psychic connection to sort of
0:43:11get her own revenge I was like yeah they
0:43:13gave her agency they're not having
0:43:14somebody to fight for her right and then
0:43:16they ruined it all by having Riker be
0:43:18the one that has the showdown with the
0:43:19dude that did that in the first place
0:43:20was like nope you lost me
0:43:22why do they send Riker into the
0:43:24corridors to just do a fight scene and
0:43:27then that and and
0:43:28in the moment you're like ha there's
0:43:30fighting this it's it's like there was a
0:43:31again a producer not like more hand and
0:43:33fighting all right we'll have regular
0:43:35gonna but the moment that made me laugh
0:43:36out loud is when at the very end breaker
0:43:38just kind of shows up back on the bridge
0:43:40at the end like hey guys i was in that
0:43:42fight scene but I'm back now i have any
0:43:45questions about that fight see why not
0:43:47send wharf
0:43:48yeah I know what when why not have a
0:43:50cover for that Jefferies tube that
0:43:51people could just fall that is there a
0:43:54judge and the shaft with a precarious
0:43:57bridge somewhere in the innards of the
0:43:59enterprise the same people make the
0:44:00catwalks in the storm star wars and star
0:44:03lifestyle and these at least heron
0:44:05handrails though they just don't work
0:44:06when they're turned on the side but i
0:44:08have just screws here then screw them
0:44:11into the bulkhead so that's good
0:44:13yeah well it also doesn't make any sense
0:44:15be Dec 29 and let's not get it looks
0:44:18like i said how much is right blue
0:44:20prints i didn't have the trip Dec 29
0:44:22that line i was i was saying to myself
0:44:24random number generator 29 and is the
0:44:28birthdate of your child's like why so
0:44:30specifically Dec 29 but they said write
0:44:32her off and and I again it just feels
0:44:36completely kind of bogus like we need to
0:44:38give Riker something to do so why don't
0:44:39we have a big fight scene with this one
0:44:42Riemann who's left on the ship and and
0:44:45many dispatches him by having employment
0:44:47to his death so was that or was that not
0:44:49the the Viceroy I don't run the right
0:44:52ring finger ya see what I can tell
0:44:54you're always the same sorry mythology
0:44:56always look like to be gracious i don't
0:44:59have a great time with all I think it
0:45:03was because he's getting revenge on the
0:45:05you know but the dude that violated his
0:45:07woman which is what made me so mad I
0:45:09guess also using mr. Troy as an insult
0:45:12was just another thing that made me
0:45:13shake my mom makes it so frustrated
0:45:16about these two movies is if you
0:45:18remember this era like deep space nine
0:45:21was much better than tangi which was
0:45:23much better about ta centos and having
0:45:26women be on the show you don't have
0:45:28agency and be characters and then voyage
0:45:30our camera which is just by far the best
0:45:33Star Trek statistically they've looked
0:45:35at it it is
0:45:37and women representation and whether on
0:45:40certain that and we get and we gotta
0:45:41Janeway cameo a nemesis that's actually
0:45:43terrible fire woman could have been any
0:45:45generic Admiral and it's Admiral Janeway
0:45:47with a stronger than you think simply
0:45:49card and look at the way they're women
0:45:51actually get your curfew speak and be
0:45:54characters in this in this particular
0:45:55one it is really bad and you know it's
0:45:58like you say we have like a psychic rape
0:46:01scene that's not really a closet
0:46:03indicator that you're on the right track
0:46:04there i think they take a break to tell
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0:47:50incomparable
0:47:51there's a moment where there where they
0:47:52are where they're going to beam down to
0:47:54to Romulus and he's like all right away
0:47:58team let's go to this invitation that
0:48:00they've gotten where they just kind of
0:48:02go around
0:48:02well I guess we'll just fly to Romulus
0:48:04by the way I had questions about that
0:48:06too like let's just cross the neutral
0:48:07zone and going around it'll be okay we
0:48:09got an invitation could we show you our
0:48:11invitation card that we got from the
0:48:12congratulations on he said we can come
0:48:14and then they just start are hovering
0:48:16around like I guess we'll just wait here
0:48:17until they tell us what to do for
0:48:19independent team something hours nobody
0:48:21talks to them all that and then finally
0:48:23they they picked they send them the
0:48:25invite you know beyond down here the
0:48:27locations and he says okay away team
0:48:29let's go and there's that moment where
0:48:30they all leave the bridges like there's
0:48:32nobody left on the bridge was like the
0:48:34senior staff
0:48:35yeah all the terrible idea
0:48:36supernumeraries are there but what
0:48:38struck me of that scene 2 is that I
0:48:39think there's like one woman and all the
0:48:41supernumeraries and i'm kinda like come
0:48:42on guys
0:48:43yeah this is your opportunity to just
0:48:45like it to be a little bit nopee there
0:48:47it's just like our extras or white guys
0:48:50then no okay and there's nobody else
0:48:53left on the ship because we've all all
0:48:55the important characters have now beam
0:48:56down to to have the lengthy boring
0:49:00supposedly creepy scene where Tom Hardy
0:49:04takes the lights up a little bit talk to
0:49:06a smart light bulbs as serie turn up the
0:49:08lights a little hasn't turned back down
0:49:10a little bit
0:49:11ron perlman kind of comes in and growls
0:49:13and then goes back out again goes on
0:49:15forever it's really boring i suppose
0:49:17we're supposed to be in that whole scene
0:49:19we're supposed to be like oh my god oh
0:49:20my god oh my god it's Picard is a young
0:49:22Picard oh my god but not only does that
0:49:25not happen but then in the movie it's
0:49:28like I kept waiting for tom hardy to be
0:49:29like you getting it yet have you figured
0:49:31it out yet
0:49:32do you see this smile if I serious
0:49:34anxiety when he does it's it's but I I
0:49:37kept waiting for it to be broader
0:49:38because it's like first off their plant
0:49:41you can't play it like it's obvious and
0:49:43also that you didn't get it but that's
0:49:44what this movie does it say you and I
0:49:48are not so different because work is why
0:49:51right so the card
0:49:53literally invited to dinner and says
0:49:55just the one yes he does
0:49:57we don't know what's worse than that
0:49:59it's like just the two of us we should i
0:50:01say no uh-uh I don't understand was just
0:50:07a bad that's a bad scene that's I'm just
0:50:09missing anything Justin right legend
0:50:11says yeah I think you'll be this isn't
0:50:13it is the tradition of the Riemann
0:50:15greeting here let me be done this night
0:50:17for you
0:50:18well this is also the scene to where
0:50:20he's super creepy about like i've never
0:50:21seen a human woman before tonight
0:50:24ok yeah that was crazy but not in the I
0:50:28don't think it was creepy the way they
0:50:30were going for you know now yeah it was
0:50:32it was definitely not what they were
0:50:33going for it
0:50:34no I'm against what they were going to
0:50:35get a weapon again if he has a story arc
0:50:38where he's actually this messed-up guy
0:50:39who might be good and it might be bad
0:50:41and he's feel feels totally isolated and
0:50:44its first time seeing humans you could
0:50:46see it as being a very Star Trek kind of
0:50:48shorthand of oh he doesn't know about
0:50:50you know how proper behavior is and it
0:50:54would be it wouldn't be good but it
0:50:55would be very Star Trek but none of that
0:50:57is built up he's just like this totally
0:50:59creepy James Bond villain I mean I'm a
0:51:01little surprised he doesn't have a
0:51:02Romulan cat to stroke while he's talking
0:51:05because he is these got the bald
0:51:07everything in the pleather the whole
0:51:09thing that can make it was too hard to
0:51:11put on but the shoulder pets all the
0:51:15shoulder pads but let's rainbow out the
0:51:17applets oh yeah he's like a bug's
0:51:19carapaces care
0:51:20yes Romulans don't have a set match
0:51:24I didn't really like his origin story
0:51:26either which is well they sent me to
0:51:28they did they they made me this clone
0:51:30because they had this plot but then it
0:51:31didn't work out so they sent me to the
0:51:33the the slaves and they raised me and
0:51:36then we had a revolt and here i am
0:51:38putting you have a note in my notes that
0:51:41just it's three words it says backstory
0:51:43is boring
0:51:44that's where it doesn't really make any
0:51:46sense you're this big secret weapon and
0:51:49then they throw you away but you lead a
0:51:51revolt and now that you've got through
0:51:52the revolt all worked out let don't
0:51:54don't ask for specifics about that but
0:51:57again he leads a revolt but he also in
0:51:59his backstory he's led like 12 battles
0:52:02for the Romulan Empire against the
0:52:04Dominion
0:52:05yeah why is the wire the Romulans
0:52:07letting him command ships doesn't make
0:52:09sense you can you know you can build a
0:52:12special super-secret prototype warbird a
0:52:15super secret base that he has access to
0:52:17for some reason also it's amazing and
0:52:20perfect cloaking and all these also use
0:52:22ships on it wow they are really not
0:52:24paying any attention to the Riemann well
0:52:25he's he's that he's like well that is
0:52:27very much a star trek into darkness
0:52:29thing to where it's like I don't really
0:52:31believe that one person can go off and
0:52:33build an advanced starship on their home
0:52:35be smothered one piece in every day
0:52:38yep an issue it is and it in his pants
0:52:41and he was just like let it fall on the
0:52:42floor and yeah oh yeah I have another
0:52:45note my notes are just just a little bit
0:52:47after that it's a forward such already
0:52:48tweeted about this just I just don't
0:52:50care
0:52:51you mean it was a terrible way we're
0:52:52going to tell my notes admitted i think
0:52:56i did tweet my favorite lines in this
0:52:57movie which is I have an appointment
0:52:58with the fully ambassador which is how
0:53:01the Romulan say they're going to the
0:53:02bathroom
0:53:03oh that's right so what would the other
0:53:07they're really gets me about this movie
0:53:08is I don't know how you all feel but one
0:53:11of the things that makes wrath of kind
0:53:13so powerful for me is box death see it
0:53:17move yet deeply every time I see it and
0:53:20I always cry I always will cry and we
0:53:24knew the data was going to die
0:53:25going into this movie and I just feel
0:53:30like it's so disrespectful how badly
0:53:32they executed this like be four is a
0:53:38horrible take on David like Laura's at
0:53:40least an interesting extrapolation of
0:53:43who data is in like his dark side and
0:53:45like the the struggle with emotions vs
0:53:48growth and humanity that is interesting
0:53:50before is just a really terrible mr.
0:53:54scenario type about some about some
0:53:58marginalized groups and to have data is
0:54:02death scene
0:54:04who's probably like besides Picard the
0:54:06most beloved character if not the most
0:54:08beloved character certainly of TNG be so
0:54:11cheap and crappily written and just
0:54:14thrown away and so incidental and so
0:54:17meaningless
0:54:18is such a massive amount of disrespect
0:54:21to that character it makes me angry but
0:54:24would you all agree the anomaly the
0:54:27amount of upset i was at data being
0:54:29stupid for not changing his password is
0:54:31well here to the rage I feel for him
0:54:33being so stupid he didn't give captain
0:54:35picard the little transporter thing
0:54:36before he just started to wear actually
0:54:39yeah what yeah baby and and no amount of
0:54:42toasts from chateau Picard wine after
0:54:45he's died will because again although
0:54:48the the coffin scenester to is poignant
0:54:51it's made more poignant by the fact that
0:54:54we have the spot death scene where as
0:54:56datas death scene is he sticks a thing
0:54:58on Picard and fires his phaser into a
0:55:00glowing thing and that's it and that's
0:55:03all we get and and it's unfulfilling the
0:55:07the fact that before seems to have his
0:55:10memories and it's very clearly like the
0:55:13you know obviously in the next in the
0:55:15next movie that was never made data
0:55:16would be back because they they make a
0:55:18point in the script of saying he's
0:55:20physically exactly like me it's only his
0:55:22mind that's different and i'm putting my
0:55:24memories in him it's very clearly set up
0:55:26kind of like the remember thing and
0:55:28start to always get Briana Briana was
0:55:30gonna take it back even further and say
0:55:32I feel like this movie more than any
0:55:34other star trek movie is trying so hard
0:55:37to be star trek to guess on every level
0:55:40anyone bail on every level of being star
0:55:45trek to ya
0:55:46star trek to and star trek 6 which were
0:55:48both will start with 6 is trying to be
0:55:50star trek to this is true your head so
0:55:52it's like it more successfully
0:55:55I like it yeah I know about Star Trek's
0:55:57is one of my favorites i met distant i'm
0:55:59just saying that that that it is
0:56:01starting to is the Goldfinger of of Star
0:56:04Trek movies basically where they every
0:56:06time it's just like hey we need
0:56:07something the audience likes let's go
0:56:09let's go up mind something from that and
0:56:11so yeah but if it totally not well
0:56:14executed at all here horrible job you
0:56:18feel cheated you don't feel any of the
0:56:21the sweeping emotional response that you
0:56:25feel in in star trek to there's no real
0:56:28cleverness there's no the Enterprise
0:56:34crew out thinking anyone else like they
0:56:36just hit a ship into another ship
0:56:37yeah is it just feels cheap and weird
0:56:41technically well executed but you don't
0:56:44you don't respond to what you're seeing
0:56:46like it's it's it's a total disconnect
0:56:48it's a weird like again you know
0:56:50comparing once again to the movie before
0:56:52this he as bad as weird as the character
0:56:56executions are in that movie those
0:56:57characters are recognizable where is so
0:56:59many places here it feels like people
0:57:01it feels like the whole clone thing it's
0:57:03like people who look like the characters
0:57:04that you know but don't really act or
0:57:06talk or have any personality like the
0:57:08characters you know a lot of the scenes
0:57:10I mean and I'd I think that's why data
0:57:12is death ring so Hollow is in some ways
0:57:14it's just like well this is a real like
0:57:16this this is all just like a holiday
0:57:19like this is just a simulation his
0:57:21sacrifice you don't see them Spock there
0:57:23is a moment answer to that is a
0:57:25beautiful moment then you may miss it if
0:57:27it's the first time you've seen it but
0:57:28after you've seen it once you see it and
0:57:31it's the moment where he's on the bridge
0:57:33and he decides to go down and fix the
0:57:36ship that's the most boxes I will
0:57:38sacrifice myself to save these people
0:57:39because otherwise we're all gonna die so
0:57:41i'm going to die and they're going to
0:57:42live and he he does it's silent he gets
0:57:45up he leaves the bridge and he goes down
0:57:47their data you know he does have Georgie
0:57:51like turn off the force field so we can
0:57:53fly over to the other ship and all but
0:57:55you know it's and part of it is setup
0:57:57it's like it's this this by the way the
0:58:01mutagenic whatever it is radiation
0:58:04weapon that the that the Romulans have
0:58:05are the reasons have on the shit so ever
0:58:07that it takes like 15 minutes to go as
0:58:10to all unfold all these spines and all
0:58:12in or do it seems highly impractical for
0:58:15for this and the data is there with a
0:58:17minute to spare and uh and you know what
0:58:21I'm saying is it doesn't feel learned i
0:58:23mean i guess after he blows up the ship
0:58:25were supposed to feel like that the only
0:58:27way that it's not going to fire on the
0:58:28enterprise's if he blows it up but the
0:58:30rules aren't as clear as that and you
0:58:31kind of feel like couldn't wasn't there
0:58:33another alternative data
0:58:34blowing yourself up it just it I again
0:58:37that with Spock you like here it is and
0:58:40then we get to see we get to say goodbye
0:58:41and then it's over and and this was
0:58:44likely yeah let's do that too
0:58:45it's it's against the breakout character
0:58:47who's not the lead and he he's involved
0:58:49in the story he obviously wants to kill
0:58:51his character off just like in Star Trek
0:58:53to let's do it and they don't do it they
0:58:55blew it
0:58:56yeah well I'm also it started to your
0:58:59not mad at Kirk when smokey eyes and in
0:59:02this i'm at Picard he's standing around
0:59:04like with since on bleeding on him and
0:59:06he's like oh I guess I'll just stand
0:59:07here on against this wall
0:59:09yes some light pressure being applied to
0:59:10me by a corpse and it is it's just like
0:59:13what are you doing you you could totally
0:59:15get out and get that phaser and blow
0:59:16this thing up at yourself
0:59:17yeah he's just well he's horrified
0:59:20because he's killed himself think
0:59:23they're tried yeah but I don't buy it
0:59:25but now what I think it's that he's
0:59:26tired from that fighting that wouldn't
0:59:28end well he also rip that thing off the
0:59:30wall so that takes a lot of effort yet
0:59:32amazed don't make your don't make your
0:59:34your little ship parts with spines that
0:59:37can be pulled down easily and used to
0:59:39ram me through people yeah you're uh
0:59:41you're looking a little impale their
0:59:43haha
0:59:45also even I would have been a better
0:59:46looking at you getting impaled what I
0:59:49recommend is sliding further down closer
0:59:52to your killed and their hands roaming
0:59:54around regular it was bird can I touch
0:59:57your hair
0:59:57your hair
1:00:00what were they thinking what were they
1:00:01so this movie I talking is so in our
1:00:04last bad Star Trek thing you know I
1:00:06talked about how i got really mad at
1:00:08Star Trek five like Star Trek the motion
1:00:10picture was just bored started five was
1:00:13like no no what are you doing a nemesis
1:00:15I never really got to the rage levels
1:00:18i I just was so disconnected from like
1:00:21why but it wasn't boredom it was just
1:00:23like you guys aren't even like you're
1:00:25not even in the ballpark I can't even
1:00:27I'm a district 5 because I felt like I
1:00:29understood what they were trying to do
1:00:31it was stupid and he was just like no
1:00:33forget it like it's not even it i just i
1:00:35think if i had one word of what I was
1:00:37feeling while watching this movie was
1:00:38contempt which is a bad thing for a
1:00:41lifelong Star Trek fan feel for a star
1:00:43trek movie I will also say after the
1:00:45reviews of this movie I never even saw
1:00:47it in the theater this is the only star
1:00:48trek movie I never saw in the theater
1:00:50because because everybody said it was
1:00:52terrible and then i will I bought it on
1:00:54DVD and i watched it one time and then
1:00:57never again without you destroy the DVD
1:00:59yeah this is my first time I only
1:01:01watched it because if you guys know
1:01:03you're what i will say i was bored
1:01:04boredom was biting like in all capital
1:01:06letters that is that is what i use to
1:01:08describe my feeling about this movie
1:01:10yeah I i well I saw this in theaters was
1:01:14very excited about the soundtrack first
1:01:16like brianna i also read the screenplay
1:01:18first it was turned up to not be exactly
1:01:21like the film I he disappointment that I
1:01:24felt was kind of like I won't say it was
1:01:27exactly the same as my phantom menace
1:01:28denial of initially seeing something and
1:01:31then being like maybe it was good it was
1:01:32it was sort of like I don't know what I
1:01:34just saw when I walked out and I was
1:01:35kind of sad and angry at the same time
1:01:37because this was it just felt like this
1:01:40was leading up to such a big thing like
1:01:42they had taken out these big ads for
1:01:44Oscar consideration for the visual
1:01:45effects and they'd done almost every
1:01:48roof
1:01:48yeah then all the stuff for the press
1:01:50for this and it was just like you guys
1:01:52blew it like this this yes it is such a
1:01:55catastrophe and I could tell like from
1:01:57seeing this that this was this was it
1:01:58like it was it was such a depressing
1:02:02moment for me and you know I had seen
1:02:03insurrection in the theater I didn't get
1:02:05that same feeling of like this is it
1:02:08this is over like no this this felt like
1:02:10it was over
1:02:11well plus you have a more like that's ok
1:02:13this is
1:02:13on movie an odd movie goes it's ok with
1:02:16you even when we were really going to
1:02:17get him with the even movie
1:02:18oh and and go to jason's point this
1:02:21isn't even so dumb like I feel like with
1:02:22the yeah the rage thing is fun because
1:02:24then at least you get wrapped up in like
1:02:26all this movie so bad it's like what's
1:02:28at least of the bad movie i can make fun
1:02:30of where is this movie that like I was
1:02:31trying to tweet stupid things about it
1:02:33and I don't I lost interest
1:02:35so you can be saying dumb things about
1:02:36this movie yeah it's not i mean it and
1:02:40what's for the vexing about it is it
1:02:42doesn't look good
1:02:43it looks good it is it is technically
1:02:46competent obviously i mean i don't i
1:02:48don't actually know maybe Joe knows it
1:02:50feels like a lot less cheap an
1:02:52insurrection does it feels like they
1:02:55spent money on the sets they mean they
1:02:57certainly spend money on the pointless
1:02:59desert dune buggy scene which that which
1:03:03is Stuart barons crowning achievement
1:03:05that he was so proud of including yes so
1:03:07that it's so useless and it feels like
1:03:10something out of a screenwriting
1:03:11handbook like what you need to have an
1:03:13initial action seem to keep the audience
1:03:15engaged at the beginning of the movie so
1:03:17we're going to have this thing where
1:03:18there's there on dune buggy and they try
1:03:20to play it four laps a little bit like
1:03:22Picard was wanted to take the dune buggy
1:03:23out but you know you shouldn't have like
1:03:26landspeeders or something at this point
1:03:28star trek it's just gotta be there like
1:03:31stuck simulation cars aim dune buggies
1:03:35as the pre-warp civilization that then
1:03:37chases them yeah yeah it it's a it's
1:03:40stuff like that where that that was
1:03:43expensive and you can tell that it was
1:03:45expensive so okay fair enough it it
1:03:46feels like they spent a lot of money on
1:03:48it but it's just it's just awful
1:03:50it's just not in a good me at any point
1:03:52does it feel like they're we haven't
1:03:55even talked about the wedding which is
1:03:57which is like cameo central of the the
1:04:01participate it's the it's the Troy Riker
1:04:03apparently that that that shave in the
1:04:05bathtub really did wonders for their
1:04:07relationship because they get married
1:04:08and thank God he grew the beard back can
1:04:11all agree on that i will say i actually
1:04:13like Captain Picard speech at the
1:04:15beginning it as a best man I enjoyed
1:04:17that city playing off all our knowledge
1:04:18of the TV series of the characters of
1:04:20like yeah the week because we know all
1:04:22these people so well right so yeah and I
1:04:24love
1:04:24Lupe's cameo 30 you know didn't he
1:04:27wasn't even there
1:04:29well we doesn't get a line no I scenes
1:04:31that the only two black characters
1:04:33sitting at a table together talking to
1:04:34each other like highlights helping their
1:04:36list this movie is yeah Jordy also I I
1:04:39thought it was really funny i'm in
1:04:41insurrection it seems like jewelry got
1:04:43healed but here he's got his content
1:04:45later they say he was says at one point
1:04:47insurrection is not sure if it will last
1:04:48or not
1:04:49yeah yeah yeah it was definitely for why
1:04:51don't we want a little less but no he's
1:04:53got his little context back there
1:04:54apparently according to an article I
1:04:56read the the director of this film
1:04:59couldn't remember
1:05:01levar Burton's character's name and
1:05:04thought he was an alien because he had
1:05:05the funny contact lens
1:05:07he also apparently according to
1:05:08wikimedia liver not did not watch a
1:05:11single episode of next generation and so
1:05:13bad
1:05:14which kind of show I think that's kind
1:05:16of the emblematic thing to take away
1:05:17from this is like if you don't watch a
1:05:19single episode of the show we wanted it
1:05:21to not feel like a TV I get the idea
1:05:23like we don't want to feel like an
1:05:25episode but it's just not well it feels
1:05:27like a completely disposable sci-fi
1:05:30action sci-fi action movie or mid budget
1:05:33sci fi action movie that's what it feels
1:05:34like a forgettable the only reason we're
1:05:37even talking about it now is because it
1:05:39was a star trek movie
1:05:40otherwise this would be a movie you
1:05:41would see on cable some time and be like
1:05:43did I see that but because it's a star
1:05:46trek movie we talk about it i did see it
1:05:48in the theater and unlike insurrection
1:05:50which I remembered several parts of I
1:05:52remembered very little about this movie
1:05:54really party and that seemed with data
1:05:56jumping over the rest of it was totally
1:05:59forgettable for me
1:06:00hello yeah I don't know to me I I think
1:06:04of this is you know something i think a
1:06:06lot with my job is about lighting and
1:06:09set design and cinematography and shot
1:06:11composition and I think like of all the
1:06:14the next generation movies just as far
1:06:16as being a beautiful film i think this
1:06:19is actually the apex of the the the TNG
1:06:23movies just just purely for having
1:06:25interesting shots in in in like a good
1:06:28color gradient like it it's something
1:06:31feels very dark and serious it's just a
1:06:33shame the script can't live up to the RT
1:06:36know it does look at that was Hollow
1:06:38that was part of why i didn't like it
1:06:39because it's it's pretty in such a grim
1:06:41dark way and there's nothing to hold it
1:06:43up that I actually liked the look of
1:06:44insurrection better simply because it
1:06:46was a better reflection of the the meat
1:06:48of the film
1:06:50I mean I i will all agree more with what
1:06:55Briana saying but i prefer first
1:06:56contacts look because i think it's more
1:06:58of the mysteries sort of the right
1:06:59balance of you know it's it's it's dark
1:07:02but not like bleak like this like this
1:07:04is the end in terms of like a budget
1:07:09since Jason mentioned i decided to go
1:07:10look up this one second remember and
1:07:12it's a yeah it's only two million more
1:07:15than insurrection so they day technology
1:07:18came a long way to yeah well it did
1:07:20because it was a she doesn't to that
1:07:23this is asking for years later and it
1:07:24looks a lot better
1:07:25it really does look a lot better yeah
1:07:27they also got digital domain to do it
1:07:28which was an actual like good effects
1:07:30house and not Santa Barbara Studios
1:07:32which is no longer in existence but it
1:07:36did the other weird and telling thing
1:07:38about this is that it had a 60 million
1:07:40dollar budget and its box office with 67
1:07:43yeah and insurrection had 58 and it made
1:07:47a hundred twelve and that was considered
1:07:48a disappointment one know if you look if
1:07:51you look at the the adjusted by current
1:07:55dollars box office of Star Trek movies
1:07:58nemesis is the all-time flop of Star
1:08:01Trek movies is the last one and there's
1:08:03no that that's why it's the last one
1:08:05although it is funny to think about the
1:08:07fact that only six years later
1:08:09JJ Abrams reboot of the series it did
1:08:12for it seems like that was years it
1:08:14seems much 2000-2008 right there was a
1:08:172009 okay seven years seven years it
1:08:20seems like a generation passed right
1:08:22track on TV at the time anyway I was a
1:08:26real desert right yeah that's true so
1:08:28true i don't know i think like I think
1:08:31one of the reasons this movie didn't do
1:08:33very well is you know it did
1:08:35complemented two years after
1:08:36insurrection and here's why today I was
1:08:40very glad to hear that episode of star
1:08:42star wars is being delayed for you know
1:08:45basically another year because i think
1:08:47it giving audiences a break and you're
1:08:50not have
1:08:51this there's a pattern they follow the
1:08:53video game industry called annual
1:08:54ization where you just keep putting
1:08:56stuff out because she was a paycheck and
1:08:59dependable paycheck I don't think that's
1:09:01a pattern the star trek movies can
1:09:04really follow you know what I mean like
1:09:06it just you kind of need a break so they
1:09:08can come back and you make a movie that
1:09:11speaks to the zeitgeist of what's going
1:09:13on
1:09:13yeah this was this was actually four
1:09:16years after insurrection well I said
1:09:17okay and interaction was only two years
1:09:19after first contact but that's the I
1:09:21think there was a perception that
1:09:22insurrection was such a letdown that
1:09:24they were going to take a break and they
1:09:25were coming to come back with nemesis
1:09:27and again hire a different director hire
1:09:29a different screen writer i remember the
1:09:31run-up to nemesis was like no no we
1:09:33gotta John Logan he did gladiator that
1:09:34was best picture this is going to be
1:09:36awesome it's a new I you know a new page
1:09:39for Star Trek and instead it was the
1:09:42last page four star track and yeah it is
1:09:46a yeah i don't know i mean i-i again I
1:09:49don't feel the rage for it other than
1:09:51show you said this on Twitter earlier
1:09:53today before we started recording I
1:09:55suppose if I was angry about nemesis for
1:09:57anything it's that it killed all
1:09:59prospects for Star Trek although at the
1:10:01same time when I see Rick Berman's
1:10:03credit for story on this I think nemesis
1:10:06maybe i kinda am NOT angry nemesis
1:10:09because nemesis the thing that got
1:10:11paramount to say hey you know what Rick
1:10:14Berman and all your people who worked on
1:10:15all those TV shows it's over
1:10:18you guys are you guys are done you kind
1:10:20of bankrupt creatively you've been
1:10:22working on this since next-generation
1:10:24started in 1987 it's been a long time
1:10:27we're done we're going to come back in a
1:10:30few years with you know something like
1:10:32JJ Abrams we're going to hire him and
1:10:33his people and we're going to do
1:10:35something completely fresh and I'd say
1:10:37good call because I feel like the Rick
1:10:40Berman era you know it went on too long
1:10:42and you know he clung to his power over
1:10:46that franchise for too long and it was
1:10:48kinda in the tank so maybe it's maybe
1:10:50it's all for the best that this thing
1:10:51blew up the franchise for a few years I
1:10:53I I don't know
1:10:55yeah i mean i will take one issue with
1:10:57but saying you know something fresh
1:10:58because we went back two characters from
1:11:00what it's true butBut what you just use
1:11:03wood
1:11:03just tell you that in the look and the
1:11:05feel of a JJ Abrams Star Trek movie is
1:11:08like so far advanced from what Star Trek
1:11:13nemesis brings to the table
1:11:15yeah but I mean filmmaking as it wasn't
1:11:18like it came out like a year after
1:11:21stirring you know that it things said
1:11:23things have progressed seven years later
1:11:24yeah but if Rick Berman had made another
1:11:28star trek movie in 2005 do you thought
1:11:30we want to progress by three words
1:11:32because everything is going to continue
1:11:33this downward trend a good idea i think
1:11:36that he had nothing left in him and that
1:11:38he didn't know it did or didn't want to
1:11:40acknowledge it because that this this
1:11:42just was just awful
1:11:44whatever his creative instincts were and
1:11:46getting Stewart Baird and whatever is
1:11:47creative instincts were in the story
1:11:49direction he was giving make it more
1:11:51like Star Trek to I like whatever
1:11:53whatever was happening there was all bad
1:11:55and he went back to the well too many
1:11:57times with with these ideas there it's a
1:12:00common criticism of some star trek
1:12:02voyager and enterprise episodes that
1:12:04they would go back and recycle things
1:12:05that you would have seen from the next
1:12:07generation it just sort of updating
1:12:10tweaking along the way and you'd be like
1:12:12I kind of feel like I saw the story
1:12:13already and you got some of that and he
1:12:16started getting that in the end films
1:12:18too and I just I don't think he he was
1:12:20he was he was a good choice to continue
1:12:23yeah you know whenever we talk about
1:12:25Star Trek movies it always comes back to
1:12:26affect the Star Trek's a TV franchise
1:12:28and one of the reasons that the these
1:12:30movies are bad some you know is because
1:12:32they become too much like a TV episode
1:12:34where they become you know too much like
1:12:37you just kind of relying on the existing
1:12:38relationships from TV and I think that's
1:12:41always a problem with surgery it's kind
1:12:43of a miracle that there are as many good
1:12:44star trek movies as they are in some
1:12:46ways because it really isn't a movie
1:12:48franchise it's just not it's TV it's
1:12:50about TV and that's why the CBS new show
1:12:53in 2017 is going to be much more of a
1:12:56make-or-break then the movie franchises
1:12:59I think can't wait to get away all the
1:13:02movies have such a fine fine line to
1:13:04walk because like you said yeah you
1:13:05can't be too much like it or you end up
1:13:07with insurrection but if you're too far
1:13:09away from the show in the characters
1:13:10that we know that that's a failure of a
1:13:11different kind of my god i know i guess
1:13:14we should be glad that we do have
1:13:16better actually good at all yeah and i
1:13:19will just say also the the to go along
1:13:21with what a both brain and jason said it
1:13:25it is a TV show and kind of I guess you
1:13:29could look at the downside of the
1:13:30success of the film's being that there
1:13:31hasn't been that TV show because it's
1:13:34been seven years since the 2009 reboot
1:13:37and we'll have had three movies by the
1:13:40time the third one comes out and that
1:13:42that's not very much Star Trek that's
1:13:44the entire run of the next generation or
1:13:46deep space nine when I wager so not not
1:13:49not enterprise the original series sorry
1:13:50guys but I did
1:13:52that's a lot of Star Trek you could have
1:13:54had a whole like series worth of stuff
1:13:57and so by the time beyond comes out like
1:13:59how many more of these JJ movies are
1:14:02there going to be are they going to get
1:14:04past four of them i don't know i hope
1:14:07not
1:14:08I it's just not what I love star trek
1:14:10through what I've engage everyone movies
1:14:12anymore
1:14:13no this is this is getting far field but
1:14:16I mean that that's the conversation that
1:14:18seems to be going on at Paramount about
1:14:20Star Trek now is maybe we should make it
1:14:22more like star wars and the Marvel
1:14:24movies where we open up as i said
1:14:26earlier open up to the broader universe
1:14:28and tell different stories in the star
1:14:30trek universe which i think a lot of
1:14:32fans could probably have told you that
1:14:3420 years ago but they seem to maybe be
1:14:38thinking in that direction now that the
1:14:39Star Wars or Star Trek has value like
1:14:42Star Wars and Marvel if they played like
1:14:43that instead of it just being a TV show
1:14:46replay or with JJ Abrams movies a replay
1:14:50of a TV show replay
1:14:51I don't know how you look at the
1:14:53examples of the the marvel vs and disney
1:14:55and and Lucasfilm and not think oh my
1:14:59gosh we have this property that's been
1:15:00spanning you know 50 years like we can't
1:15:04get anything with a hugely devoted
1:15:05fanbase like how can we not like
1:15:07capitalize on that there's a quote and
1:15:09again at their examples it's a it's a
1:15:11it's a studio person so who knows
1:15:15very ideas are probably bad but the idea
1:15:17what they said was what what if there
1:15:19are movies about Star Trek that are
1:15:21about you know about the space marines
1:15:25or about spies or things like that they
1:15:27were just throwing out some dumb ideas
1:15:28but you know I looked at that and
1:15:30thought yeah what about that what if you
1:15:33look for good stories you can tell
1:15:34around the star trek universe instead of
1:15:37just let's recycle some TV characters
1:15:40maybe that would be better for for your
1:15:43film franchise and where my audio a
1:15:45little bit of a quote from joss whedon
1:15:47when he was trying to do a celibacy
1:15:49animated series i believe he said
1:15:51something to be effective it was like I
1:15:53had these bags of money and nobody would
1:15:54take them from me yeah well if you've
1:15:57seen any of the stuff that they were
1:15:59planning for the buffy animated series
1:16:00it would have been spectacularly good he
1:16:02would have just it would have been great
1:16:04and and you're right there like we just
1:16:06didn't get it so it seems like nothing
1:16:08said nothing says success like success
1:16:10star wars and Marvel now people are
1:16:14listening to this idea of like we've got
1:16:15to get some franchise I mean what
1:16:16they're gonna do the GI Joe micronauts
1:16:19mom and ask franchise writing
1:16:22everybody's like turning over the couch
1:16:24cushions looking for franchise what
1:16:25they're doing mask
1:16:27yeah they're gonna do a linked all the
1:16:29toys you know I can't mask micronauts
1:16:31rom space Knight GI joe i think they're
1:16:34all interconnected than they're talking
1:16:36about there's a hole there are writers
1:16:37room transformer it's like really crazy
1:16:39it's gonna be terrible but the point is
1:16:42everybody's looking for franchises and
1:16:44and paramount is sitting there with a
1:16:45franchise so what are you doing
1:16:48paramount so well I mean I I think
1:16:50there's a lot to learn from you know the
1:16:52netflix Marvel movies and you know for
1:16:55me I know guardians of the galaxy
1:16:58probably has a lot of fans here but for
1:17:00me like what I love science fiction for
1:17:03is smaller stories that talk about like
1:17:07a heinlein novel is good because it says
1:17:09something really deep and important
1:17:11about human nature right is not always
1:17:13we've got to go save the galaxy and get
1:17:15this crystal right so i would love like
1:17:19my very favorite episodes of Star Trek
1:17:21are always smaller stories that really
1:17:24have their roots in what makes excellent
1:17:26science fiction and
1:17:28I just really hope that going forward
1:17:30like okay we've got like we tend towards
1:17:33extremes as humans and like the 2009 JJ
1:17:38Abrams Star Trek like find the loud
1:17:41exciting space adventure rooted in the
1:17:43sixties we've got that can we maybe take
1:17:47a step back and like look at the core of
1:17:50what makes star trek awesome again
1:17:52because I think I guess we're talking
1:17:54about these two movies that don't work
1:17:56there's a lot to really think about what
1:17:58the future of Star Trek care it's time
1:18:00for a reunion episode just like just one
1:18:02man I I actually you know the you know
1:18:05we talked about rage Joe the thing that
1:18:08maybe angriest about this movie is this
1:18:10is the last we see especially like
1:18:12patrick stewart is Picard it's like come
1:18:14on come on i would love to see he did he
1:18:17did the that at the x-men movie where he
1:18:19came back as Professor X again it makes
1:18:21me very sad that this is probably the
1:18:23last we see of Captain Picard and it's
1:18:27not in service of anything good and it's
1:18:28like patrick stewart you got him you got
1:18:30Patrick Stewart oh what a it's just it
1:18:33makes me sad yeah because I think it's
1:18:36important that that meta level of
1:18:38disappointment from beyond this film
1:18:39that you know this is the end this is
1:18:41the last time this this is the goodbye
1:18:44this is how it ends yeah and hang but
1:18:46with a yeah well you know what they say
1:18:50all good things haha
1:18:53Bravo that I can top that I just I just
1:18:56have so sad I i wanted i want at you
1:19:00through all the emotions here denial
1:19:02like I'm not saying this to anger you
1:19:04know depression you know it all ages
1:19:07cycles through every time i watch it
1:19:08because it's just like this is the end
1:19:11of the the cast that I grew up with
1:19:13their gone like no more from them like
1:19:16paramount would not ask them back
1:19:18I don't think necessarily would be a
1:19:19good idea to have them back but like
1:19:21it's definitely not happening so that
1:19:24that is the final note there and you can
1:19:27even be like oh well maybe you could say
1:19:29like oh the last movie is really
1:19:31insurrection because that was that was
1:19:32the the time before things went off the
1:19:34rails know that was a little off the
1:19:35rails to and then it's like what was the
1:19:37last really good star trek first contact
1:19:40and it's like a that's yeah it's have so
1:19:43much so much wrong with that kind of a
1:19:45assessment of this is scott what do you
1:19:49think so they said let's start the story
1:19:53with Romulans and kill them all and will
1:19:56introduce a stupid reasons for no
1:19:58particular reason that just annoys me to
1:20:01no end
1:20:02yeah but at least there are some Romulan
1:20:04warbirds at the end which look really
1:20:06cool so I don't like anyone show blown
1:20:08up in like two seconds to so that makes
1:20:10me angry but but the cars gonna have a
1:20:13drink with that the Romulan captain lady
1:20:15later
1:20:16that's right oh LOL the only drink one
1:20:20is legal thing should be illegal
1:20:22it just call it else yeah its tail in
1:20:24romulus that's this is how it is
1:20:27yeah well what do you say it's but it's
1:20:32maybe maybe that CBS Star Trek series
1:20:33will have a cameo from like old Captain
1:20:35Picard or something wouldn't that be
1:20:36nice
1:20:37although actually i will say fans of the
1:20:40next generation might be interested to
1:20:42find out that in the comic book
1:20:43adaptation of the j original JJ Abrams
1:20:47Star Trek movie there is a lengthy a
1:20:50lengthy like side story where they
1:20:53explain how Spock I went back in time
1:20:58and it's basically Picard and Georgie
1:21:02help him get the spaceship that he
1:21:04pilots back in time and I always thought
1:21:06that was kind of great as like the next
1:21:08generation tie into the JJ Abrams Star
1:21:10Trek that card and Georgie in the future
1:21:12and data i think is involved too because
1:21:14it's just assumed data is back
1:21:16we're not even talk about it no he has
1:21:18five and they and and I always thought
1:21:21that was really clever and I know they
1:21:22could never do that in the movie but I
1:21:24loved that in the in the comic book that
1:21:27they made an effort to bring in the next
1:21:28generation characters and tie them in
1:21:32with spot going back in time because
1:21:33they knew they knew that we cared about
1:21:36those characters and they and they put
1:21:37them in there i thought that was a nice
1:21:39gesture but that's that so that's what I
1:21:41hold on to Joe is like habit Spock I bet
1:21:45he had some help from our friends in the
1:21:46future and that's all that's all i got
1:21:48was that stuff doesn't count right I
1:21:51know it doesn't it doesn't count but
1:21:52when i watch the star trek
1:21:54James movie that's what i'm thinking is
1:21:55Spock with the help of our friends went
1:21:59back in time please accept my headcanon
1:22:02Jason I will accept your Thank You Erica
1:22:06that's what i was looking for all right
1:22:08well you know there are better Star Trek
1:22:11movies than these but these were the
1:22:16ones we talked about so I want to I want
1:22:18to wrap it up but thank my guests for
1:22:20for soldiering on and watching these two
1:22:22the the final two nails in the coffin of
1:22:25Star Trek The Next Generation with me
1:22:28Dan Morgan thank you for being here
1:22:30among the many Star Trek movies Jason
1:22:33these were two of these were indeed two
1:22:35accounts to Erica and sign thank you i'm
1:22:38just depressed now haha oh yeah yeah
1:22:43Scott McNulty thank you i don't know how
1:22:46old spot is 0 so I think there's been
1:22:50many salads many spots they can't even
1:22:53agree on a gender is just keep telling
1:22:54you didn't hold with the the spot keeps
1:22:57dying and they just by date a new cat
1:22:58because they don't want to explain to
1:23:00everybody i think that's it i think
1:23:01that's exactly it
1:23:02they just like the memory angry i'm out
1:23:04about the whole night haha nice but Joe
1:23:08Rosen still thank you by Cyrus a joke
1:23:16that was it that was it the lipids let's
1:23:18all raise our glass of chateaux Picard
1:23:20to joe's memory and Brianna Wu thank you
1:23:23as long as you remember star trek to
1:23:25star trek is not really dead but yeah
1:23:27that's fair enough fair enough i'm going
1:23:30to clutch my star trek I may actually go
1:23:31back and watch star trek to its star
1:23:33trek first contact again just to just to
1:23:36cleanse the palate a little bit
1:23:38well thanks to everybody out there for
1:23:39watching wee-wee again we do 80 episodes
1:23:42in a row about Star Wars and I feel like
1:23:43we've got to do some Star Trek because
1:23:45this is the podcast people know it as we
1:23:47talk about Star Wars Star Trek fan I
1:23:50don't know how it happened
1:23:52we talked about star's light so I'm glad
1:23:53that we got to spend a little time
1:23:55talking about Star Trek even if it was
1:23:56bad star track
1:23:57after all we get a lot of episodes about
1:23:59that star wars movies him I hate all
1:24:02right yeah so thanks to everybody for
1:24:05listening and I hope you didn't watch
1:24:07these movies or listen to this episode
1:24:08affected we all apologize
1:24:11we'll see you next week hopefully have
1:24:13something that is not as terrible as
1:24:15these students
1:24:27[Music]