The Incomparable

292: I Have an Appointment with the Tholian Ambassador


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  dot TV / smell and use the code smell [TS]

  the incomparable number 292 March 2016 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason still [TS]

  we're back with the second edition of he [TS]

  starts correct bad movie thing that [TS]

  we're doing compliant why why for this [TS]

  episode it is bad Star Trek Louise the [TS]

  next generation as we watched Star Trek [TS]

  insurrection from 1998 and star trek [TS]

  nemesis from 2002 star trek nemesis you [TS]

  may remember as the one that killed the [TS]

  franchise for several year although it [TS]

  was you know the six years later James [TS]

  brought it back but this was the end of [TS]

  the line for the next generation crew so [TS]

  to talk about these movies in turn and [TS]

  give them a good beating as if they were [TS]

  piƱatas we just like the last time we [TS]

  talked about started five and started [TS]

  much picture i'm joined by a different [TS]

  panel of people but one person remains [TS]

  in common that's mr. Scott McNulty my [TS]

  star trek go-to expert hi Scott [TS]

  hello Jason have you ever experienced a [TS]

  perfect moment [TS]

  yeah i yeah we'll talk about that later [TS]

  bonus track damn morons here hi Dan [TS]

  Jason if if you had lived my life would [TS]

  you not do the same as me and beyond [TS]

  this podcast and watch too terrible Star [TS]

  Trek movies ask yourself this [TS]

  it's good point i'll cut myself with a [TS]

  Romulan knife and and prove my loyalty [TS]

  that's just how they say hello George [TS]

  Eric and signs also here [TS]

  hello i am here i'd have to say I didn't [TS]

  take close enough note of these movies [TS]

  to have an actual quote to say here [TS]

  here's one [TS]

  this is a oscar-winner f murray Abraham [TS]

  circuit down and memory talking about [TS]

  you're not just a winner [TS]

  oscar-winner Brianna was here to talk [TS]

  star trek as we love to do with her [TS]

  hello [TS]

  in the event of emergency i can be used [TS]

  to simplification how did they forget [TS]

  that line boom and Joe rosenstiel is [TS]

  also here hi Joe [TS]

  I seem to be missing several memory and [TS]

  grams mmm [TS]

  you know and we'll reason because [TS]

  apparently they are physical objects and [TS]

  not to anyway I i have questions about [TS]

  data is brain what the wheel [TS]

  oh I'll never get answers it sends out [TS]

  positronic signals across vast distances [TS]

  light-years to very specific [TS]

  scholarships [TS]

  yeah um bored well let's start with me [TS]

  i'll start with the structure and action [TS]

  so um so here's here's the thing on [TS]

  Twitter somebody told me when we say [TS]

  we're doing bad electric the next [TS]

  generation somebody said all of them [TS]

  which is really mean because star trek [TS]

  first contact [TS]

  that's a great movie i think it's the [TS]

  best Star Trek movie other than Star [TS]

  Trek to I think it's a legitimately [TS]

  great movie [TS]

  yeah um you know star generations is [TS]

  kind of mediocre up there are a lot of [TS]

  things i like about it including i love [TS]

  that there are scenes with Captain [TS]

  Picard in' and Captain Kirk talking to [TS]

  each other and service but on horse on [TS]

  hoarders you get the sense that they [TS]

  were like lowering william shatner into [TS]

  the movie rights like you can ride a [TS]

  horse bill you could do that i do you [TS]

  love horses better stewards like why do [TS]

  I have to ride a horse although card [TS]

  have a saddle in that Star Trek episode [TS]

  right Scott so it's we know all about [TS]

  ready or you know that they have that in [TS]

  common but I you know I think I movies [TS]

  fine then then there's star trek [TS]

  insurrection and start their star trek [TS]

  nemesis and what you said that the [TS]

  differences like killed franchise dead [TS]

  but insurrection is where we're going to [TS]

  start with these are the assigned assign [TS]

  films for this time since Star Trek [TS]

  insurrection you know it's like an [TS]

  episode of Star Trek The Next Generation [TS]

  they the data seems to have gone rogue [TS]

  and is shooting up a village it's very [TS]

  much like that is who watches the [TS]

  Watchers Scott is that is that the [TS]

  episode where there [TS]

  oh yeah there's like the Federation duck [TS]

  blind in a pre-contact civilization and [TS]

  they're kind of all all shielded and and [TS]

  it's a little bit like that except and [TS]

  indeed has kind of gone Rogan is [TS]

  exposing the Federation people who are [TS]

  there along with this race we've never [TS]

  heard of or seen before the sona sona [TS]

  that they are observing the Baku in the [TS]

  briar patch which is an area of space [TS]

  that is different some help [TS]

  yeah so nice just how we say sonar here [TS]

  involve [TS]

  yeah just I feel like I have a history [TS]

  of having positive things to say number [TS]

  things that many geeks don't like I am [TS]

  blank this week I got nothing if one [TS]

  that will help me and bri doesn't have [TS]

  anything that is a very bad hits over so [TS]

  well I mean in the plot structure gives [TS]

  insurrection essentially what it turns [TS]

  out is that this planet just like the [TS]

  fountain of youth and the Federation and [TS]

  these people the SONA who we've never [TS]

  heard of before that I it really sticks [TS]

  with me it's like oh it's a brand new [TS]

  alien race who's got starships and we've [TS]

  never heard of him before but here they [TS]

  are [TS]

  it always bugged me but we make a deal [TS]

  with them essentially because they want [TS]

  a profit [TS]

  everyone wants to profit from blowing up [TS]

  the the special things special rings [TS]

  around this planet that uh that create a [TS]

  fountain of youth and picard and his [TS]

  crew basically repel against this [TS]

  Federation Admiral and the SONA who were [TS]

  there and they fight this insurrection [TS]

  to save the indigenous people on the [TS]

  planet and then its complexity because [TS]

  it turns out that the SONA are actually [TS]

  part of the race of people on that [TS]

  planet who were dissidents I'm Sports [TS]

  West dissidents and they left and then [TS]

  they became obsessed with [TS]

  plastic-surgery not my favorite thing in [TS]

  the movie anyway that's what that's what [TS]

  Star Trek insurrection is there's you [TS]

  know if murray Abraham and and and [TS]

  patrick stewart fight in a scaffold in [TS]

  space and that Ryker gets a shave [TS]

  dr. precious dr. Crusher's boobs firm up [TS]

  I i was wondering if you're going to [TS]

  mention think I'm glad no one used on [TS]

  learning the intro second I thought [TS]

  about using that line and like even [TS]

  Brianna Wu doesn't have the gall to say [TS]

  that it's weird the redeeming quality of [TS]

  it is that it's it's it's crusher and [TS]

  Troy talking about the transforming up [TS]

  and data is overhearing them and that [TS]

  part is actually kind of funny because [TS]

  its data and data is like I'm trying to [TS]

  process this and I thought that part was [TS]

  was funny be any it is so weird and then [TS]

  covers are them singing like for the [TS]

  starfish like Captain Picard saves the [TS]

  day by sticking two more [TS]

  oh so here's the thing about this this [TS]

  this is that [TS]

  I think I I kind was watching this with [TS]

  my girlfriend and we were talking about [TS]

  i think the thing that comes down to is [TS]

  like you know if you're TNG fan as we [TS]

  both were and you start watching this [TS]

  it's it's like watching your parents try [TS]

  to be cool with all the scenes where [TS]

  they're young it's embarrassing i get [TS]

  those awkward part of it is watching all [TS]

  of them run around like teenagers and [TS]

  you're like oh Jesus God have some [TS]

  reason for this album bowl is difficult [TS]

  i know it's going to pull an [TS]

  embarrassing like I don't want to be [TS]

  seen with these people [TS]

  yeah you know and i'm not going to say [TS]

  interaction is good but i actually [TS]

  enjoyed watching it I didn't have any [TS]

  and there's a bunch of silly stuff in it [TS]

  but I got it I got to see a couple [TS]

  actors I like donna murphy donna murphy [TS]

  she's she was Juliet in center stage [TS]

  which is my favorite dance movie of all [TS]

  time so I enjoyed watching her and then [TS]

  i even i was proud of myself because [TS]

  underneath all of the other makeup I [TS]

  recognize Greg Henry no yeah Jim [TS]

  huntzberger on Gilmore Girls is so so [TS]

  yeah but i had things that i was able to [TS]

  latch onto it was pretty like I want to [TS]

  go to that planet i wanna live there i [TS]

  gotta say i don't think the second-worst [TS]

  star trek movie next generation movie is [TS]

  nearly as bad as the second-worst [TS]

  original crew movie i think i think its [TS]

  direction is really mediocre and I think [TS]

  there are a lot of things that are [TS]

  terrible about it which we should [TS]

  probably list i'll throw out some of my [TS]

  Nana please join in the reasons that [TS]

  this movie is bad the data playing in [TS]

  the hay with a little boy with the cgi [TS]

  animal I I find that really creepy and [TS]

  weird and I don't like it in any way i [TS]

  can someone explain the time freezing [TS]

  thing that makes no sense I kind of I [TS]

  think that's kind of poet i mean the [TS]

  idea is like you have a perfect moment [TS]

  in time seems to stand still on it turns [TS]

  out that they have like the ability to [TS]

  freeze time through the power of I don't [TS]

  know their advanced smarter than us the [TS]

  power to ya laters out how to do i doing [TS]

  that kind of poetic even though it makes [TS]

  no sense that the other thing that [TS]

  really bugs me is the is the SONA i'm in [TS]

  Sona bug me the the idea that they are [TS]

  unrecognizable but they're obsessed with [TS]

  plastic surgery okay here's the thing [TS]

  that they're plastic surgery I it seems [TS]

  so broad as an idea this idea of trying [TS]

  to remain young but they don't look [TS]

  young [TS]

  they look [TS]

  weird it's like for real for weird and [TS]

  so it happened we were meant to take [TS]

  them seriously [TS]

  on one level and yet it's also this [TS]

  incredibly like broad satire on another [TS]

  level and that but just completely [TS]

  breaks down for me that can I defend [TS]

  them with with three words on on Beth's [TS]

  owners Jeff one of the words it's it's [TS]

  pimping space couch is these are the [TS]

  three words which is mr Abraham's got a [TS]

  couch on his fringe which is awesome [TS]

  just try I made note of that I've got a [TS]

  rare point of agreement the thing I [TS]

  don't get about the SONA is that they're [TS]

  this this race this that has this [TS]

  beautiful should not be stopped how many [TS]

  yeah how many people were there on this [TS]

  colony that were booted out to be able [TS]

  to be seen by the Federation a hundred [TS]

  years 10 years eve looks really sick [TS]

  people it doesn't make it doesn't make [TS]

  any sense that it would be better if the [TS]

  people on the planet the Baku were like [TS]

  the hippies who left their warlike race [TS]

  and found this paradise and wouldn't let [TS]

  anybody else you know and you know and [TS]

  nobody else wanted to come there [TS]

  something like that might have been a [TS]

  better dynamic but the idea that there's [TS]

  this powerful race that we've never seen [TS]

  before in star track and in a hundred [TS]

  years they formed and we've lost track [TS]

  of where they came from [TS]

  it's kind of ridiculous I mean it is [TS]

  they're just trying to backtrack it to [TS]

  get the story to work then and it [TS]

  doesn't make any sense and then yet [TS]

  again the satire I get the satire [TS]

  reminds me a little bit of Erika king dr [TS]

  who the in the the end the world where [TS]

  there's the the cassandra is a that her [TS]

  name right yep that's and she said she's [TS]

  a character who is the she is the [TS]

  ultimate expression of plastic surgery [TS]

  she's skin on a trampoline frame [TS]

  essentially it is varying human it is [TS]

  very funny and very broad but and I was [TS]

  thinking of that when i watch the book [TS]

  the the SONA because it's like that it's [TS]

  like except they're they're supposed to [TS]

  be taken seriously while being [TS]

  ridiculous and it's just it's just it's [TS]

  too bad because I think a lot of the [TS]

  movie is perfectly fine as in like a [TS]

  next generation episode it's define it [TS]

  in the degree of difficulty I think it's [TS]

  a degree of difficulty thing like you [TS]

  know making this [TS]

  I feel like you said well it's a long [TS]

  episode so in some ways it doesn't [TS]

  require quite as much ingenuity or [TS]

  stretching or any sort of yeah of itself [TS]

  it's it's fine but it's not a [TS]

  particularly difficult concept or really [TS]

  you know yeah I don't think it's [TS]

  particularly complexes and that's fine [TS]

  and the action bits are super lazy they [TS]

  do prefigure drones a little bit which I [TS]

  thought was kind of cool thing seeing it [TS]

  now some of the scenes are terrible like [TS]

  the spinning in the shuttles just made [TS]

  me nauseous [TS]

  no just run around each other I I think [TS]

  like a lot of the you know a lot of the [TS]

  cg of the nineties and say this is [TS]

  someone who does this for a living [TS]

  a lot of cg the nineties doesn't hold up [TS]

  because we didn't have in things like [TS]

  new Carlotta the advance on color [TS]

  matching things if i want to say like [TS]

  I'm trying to think of anything possible [TS]

  if you could say about this movie I [TS]

  think this particular version of the [TS]

  enterprise is probably the best one from [TS]

  a design perspective yeah i love you [TS]

  work for me [TS]

  yeah yeah it'sit's that came up and this [TS]

  is really interesting technically I they [TS]

  had certain technologies to really [TS]

  create lots of detail on the whole of [TS]

  this ship and it really shots in the [TS]

  design like it's it's like when you're [TS]

  watching episode 7 of Star Wars and [TS]

  they're flying through the the surface [TS]

  of like a Star Destroyer you can see [TS]

  that much detail of it looks better that [TS]

  technology this was when they first [TS]

  started doing that for like Star Trek [TS]

  and I think that successful put so bad [TS]

  to have all the fight scenes and [TS]

  everything the entire movie just not [TS]

  make any sense so bad that it ruins it [TS]

  either i do like I mean mentioned on [TS]

  Murphy I like Don Murphy I like her [TS]

  exchanges with the card I think that [TS]

  kind of their kind of interesting this [TS]

  truly like I mean it as an old like like [TS]

  like Frank actually Brianna old-school [TS]

  TOS Star Trek fan it reminded me that a [TS]

  little bit is like you know the captain [TS]

  goes down on the planet and there's a [TS]

  woman down there who you know but in [TS]

  this case donna murphy she's kind of [TS]

  super wise because it turns out she's [TS]

  the older woman she's like several [TS]

  hundred years old and I thought that was [TS]

  an interesting give-and-take and I also [TS]

  like the fact that they cast a 40 year [TS]

  old woman in that part and not [TS]

  not a 20 year old woman because you [TS]

  could argue that if they're eternally [TS]

  young they should all look 20 years old [TS]

  but they didn't do that and I thought [TS]

  she was great in it [TS]

  I you know the shoes me ASAP let's be [TS]

  honest like she's ridiculously gorgeous [TS]

  oh yeah she's fantastic it's it i really [TS]

  love i really love that that's it's all [TS]

  rolled into gether I i love less the the [TS]

  kind of really boring action scenes [TS]

  where they're picking off drones and [TS]

  running through caves and fighting in a [TS]

  in a big frame with Emory Abraham very [TS]

  good insurrection because they are [TS]

  eating hundreds of people across an open [TS]

  field when the enemy has a spaceship [TS]

  with scanner still like strengthen them [TS]

  yeah well they're used to having a lot [TS]

  of technology so they're feeling a [TS]

  little disadvantage i also love that [TS]

  when they show up to stop the card from [TS]

  going rogue [TS]

  he's like 40 and Riker you guys stay [TS]

  behind fortunately you're already [TS]

  wearing your uniform [TS]

  it's like you like this i noticed that [TS]

  we really need each other that was kind [TS]

  of mistake they should have been it [TS]

  would have been funny but they should [TS]

  have been ready with their City clothes [TS]

  and being like up i guess we gotta [TS]

  change back into our uniforms the writer [TS]

  has a sweet leisure suit somewhere come [TS]

  on man [TS]

  although again I gotta say Riker the one [TS]

  of the things that makes me cringe in [TS]

  this movie is Riker and Troy in the [TS]

  bathtub in the shaving yes I just really [TS]

  horny because they're in the briar patch [TS]

  but it's like these movies are heavy on [TS]

  the the sex scenes you never really want [TS]

  well six iterations appeal was all about [TS]

  Riker and Troy's relationship right [TS]

  let's take a break for me to tell you [TS]

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  your account thank you to IT pro TV for [TS]

  sponsoring the incomparable I like being [TS]

  that the the indication that this [TS]

  society this is no planetary society is [TS]

  so advanced in like really you know [TS]

  they're all coordinated stuff is that [TS]

  they play hacky sack like a bunch of [TS]

  college freshman yeah but really good at [TS]

  their really congratulate act like man [TS]

  also dates and the fact that it's an [TS]

  entire planet surrounded by the fountain [TS]

  of youth rings but there's only like six [TS]

  hundred people on the whole planet right [TS]

  me you could just just come down just [TS]

  just hang out make it make a resort spa [TS]

  right which apparently wasn't related [TS]

  scene where there's enough room wasn't [TS]

  then they just invite the SONA to live [TS]

  yeah with them well the card even says [TS]

  that add to the Admiral and he says Oh [TS]

  altered condition is so bad at this [TS]

  point that it would take them ten years [TS]

  before they even saw any benefit from [TS]

  that and they would start dying by then [TS]

  they don't want to do that so that much [TS]

  either just blow up the planet really [TS]

  seems like a script note right where [TS]

  somebody we found a plot hole when they [TS]

  just insert a line of dialogue say oh no [TS]

  we can't do that yet these states are so [TS]

  incredibly low need to have different [TS]

  line [TS]

  how low are they didn't have that moment [TS]

  where I thought you know although i [TS]

  complained a lot about on Star Trek and [TS]

  doctor who actually the idea that every [TS]

  story has to be about the fate of here [TS]

  the fate of the world favorite human [TS]

  race the fate of the universe [TS]

  I don't have that moment an insurrection [TS]

  where I'm like fate of 500 people [TS]

  well it is a movie I mean like you said [TS]

  it it should be bigger than that because [TS]

  it feels it just feels like a regular [TS]

  episode that happens to be a little bit [TS]

  longer [TS]

  I mean that does give us that nice see [TS]

  where Picard is like how many people [TS]

  does it take for it to matter it has a [TS]

  good scene that's true that's a good [TS]

  scene so I like they are there are some [TS]

  there are some good things in here I [TS]

  also liked Georgie seeing a sunrise with [TS]

  his real ID yes that was Jordan is [TS]

  always my painting that was a really [TS]

  good yeah thats related everything [TS]

  Beverly with a gun taking out those [TS]

  little robots and enjoying the heck out [TS]

  of me that was super fun for me as a as [TS]

  a fan of hers or speaking majority again [TS]

  the moment where he rejects the warp [TS]

  core before he's even ordered to that [TS]

  was a good woman already got it at yep [TS]

  what am I for one of my biggest pet [TS]

  peeves about what any kind of any kind [TS]

  of military or star trek or science [TS]

  fiction show is that quite often it [TS]

  takes forever from the time that the [TS]

  captain gives the order for something to [TS]

  actually happen it has to be related [TS]

  through at least one other person before [TS]

  all but I wished and then suddenly like [TS]

  you know that there's a huge scene with [TS]

  that nemesis hunt for red october i love [TS]

  that Georgie just jumped the gun and [TS]

  he's like no needed to be done I didn't [TS]

  you know wash my hands and there's a [TS]

  moment of realization like yep all right [TS]

  onto [TS]

  do you think about this movie i think [TS]

  especially in comparison to the movie [TS]

  will talk to you in a moment is the this [TS]

  is really well served by like all the [TS]

  characters are really well served by [TS]

  this movie I feel like even if it's in [TS]

  sometimes ridiculous ways [TS]

  everybody gets a couple scenes and it [TS]

  feels like there's some character [TS]

  development like these feel like the [TS]

  characters that we know from the show [TS]

  i'll be it you know kind of under a [TS]

  weird influence of this whole planet [TS]

  region whatever but like you get to see [TS]

  all the characters you get to see them [TS]

  interact you know you get and and that I [TS]

  think use kind of lacking in the other [TS]

  movie [TS]

  yeah but i will say that i do feel kind [TS]

  of bad for gates mcfadden because she [TS]

  had been played for a long time is this [TS]

  love interest with the car yeah and we [TS]

  let me about this Joe yeah when one of [TS]

  my episodes that I really love is when [TS]

  they get bonded with the telepathic link [TS]

  thing and abducted on that planet and [TS]

  our wandering around and so they get to [TS]

  know each other and all that stuff in a [TS]

  relationship that's building up and then [TS]

  in this movie it's just like yeah [TS]

  whatever we're just hanging out and I'm [TS]

  gonna go shoot some drones over here and [TS]

  stand for people with the tricorder yep [TS]

  that's it [TS]

  well I me and he's like yeah but Donna [TS]

  Murphy is right here so yeah she's [TS]

  helping him with like his collar and the [TS]

  first scene and you feel like oh maybe [TS]

  they don't like decided to make a go of [TS]

  it I always shipped them so hmm well [TS]

  speaking of that first thing I really [TS]

  like how war shows up and parts like [TS]

  what are you doing here warfare that how [TS]

  are you doing it over [TS]

  they don't care they shipped to another [TS]

  thing you don't even hear what he says [TS]

  it doesn't matter well here I what [TS]

  worried about war shows up whenever [TS]

  there's a movie that's going to be shot [TS]

  because they gotta give him back because [TS]

  they're going to explain in the deep [TS]

  deep space nine chronology which is a [TS]

  little bit confusing but it had I like [TS]

  I'm glad they do it and not like what [TS]

  why is mr. Worf not in the Star Trek [TS]

  movies well because he was on TV no no [TS]

  we're going to bring it back and put it [TS]

  in the movies TV I think TV plays a big [TS]

  part in when we look at any of the next [TS]

  generation movies because the original [TS]

  Star Trek was off the air for 10 years [TS]

  and then they came back and they made a [TS]

  bunch of movies i think one of the [TS]

  challenges with all these [TS]

  next-generation movies is it was a cast [TS]

  of a TV show and they they finished the [TS]

  TV show and said well every couple of [TS]

  years we'll come back and we'll make a [TS]

  movie with you guys and and they did [TS]

  that 44 movies and it makes I feel like [TS]

  it's kind of a degree of difficulty [TS]

  increase on that front because you're [TS]

  always going to just say this is just [TS]

  like a TV episode but the fact is you [TS]

  know it [TS]

  this is this movie of all the Star Trek [TS]

  movies that were made feels the most [TS]

  like a TV episode I mean and it's like [TS]

  you know in a 24 episode season you can [TS]

  like there's a rhythm to star trek right [TS]

  like a season comes out we all accept [TS]

  that making only about a third of them [TS]

  are going to be good you know that you [TS]

  just you know that but i think it's it's [TS]

  really interesting to look at the the [TS]

  historical time that was going on here [TS]

  with the the trek franchise because [TS]

  there were a lot of rumors back then and [TS]

  there was a lot of people advocating for [TS]

  there being a voyeur movie and they were [TS]

  talking about Voyager maybe trying to [TS]

  take over the home after the mtng movies [TS]

  had really run their course and because [TS]

  these two movies are so bad i feel like [TS]

  it really it's like you said it really [TS]

  hurt the franchise for a really long [TS]

  time and you just you can't forgive this [TS]

  level of just cheese in a star trek [TS]

  movie like I understand not every star [TS]

  trek movie needs to be a hyper serious [TS]

  first content with tina those high [TS]

  stakes [TS]

  I understand that like some of them are [TS]

  going to be the voyage home and be a [TS]

  little more comical this one just failed [TS]

  like there's there's very little they [TS]

  succeeded at and that that makes me very [TS]

  sad [TS]

  are you saying that you think the manual [TS]

  steering control being a joystick yeah [TS]

  okay just wanna be why would you not [TS]

  just go up to the helm and control the [TS]

  helmet your writer and you think that [TS]

  but instead they have this thing that [TS]

  comes out of the floor of a joystick why [TS]

  do you have that all the time but they [TS]

  have a lot yeah there's a lot of that [TS]

  we're in this movie especially and I [TS]

  think again you're thinking of it as a [TS]

  TV show you like why did you do that and [TS]

  the answers we have money to do that so [TS]

  we did that and it's not a good it's not [TS]

  a good enough reason [TS]

  also the tent and we'll get to this with [TS]

  nemesis as well but i want to point out [TS]

  the tenuous of Star Trek as as a film [TS]

  franchise the fact that paramount in the [TS]

  eighties and nineties and early two [TS]

  thousands uh was this close like [TS]

  structure to was developed as a TV movie [TS]

  right and they finally decided to make a [TS]

  feature film every for all that we [TS]

  talked about this weird [TS]

  it's about how there was the even movies [TS]

  are good and the odd movies are are are [TS]

  not as good [TS]

  um the first time the even and odd [TS]

  movies were bad they ended it that was [TS]

  it being so they were always like one [TS]

  away from being shut down the the [TS]

  budgets weren't that great i mean you [TS]

  look at these movies they look ok the [TS]

  budgets weren't weren't were were ok but [TS]

  they weren't also like super blockbuster [TS]

  budgets they never really were after the [TS]

  motion picture it's just interesting to [TS]

  think of we think of Star Trek as this [TS]

  eternal franchise in so many different [TS]

  ways and yet during this period they [TS]

  were right on the edge of getting thrown [TS]

  out the door every single time and in [TS]

  fact nemesis has it has a different [TS]

  screen writer and a different director [TS]

  because they basically said we need to [TS]

  do something to shake this up and then [TS]

  when that stiffed they just said forget [TS]

  it we're gonna go back to the drawing [TS]

  it's just so weird to think that like [TS]

  not being able to make money on Star [TS]

  Trek given the high level of devoted [TS]

  fanbase that it has right and looking at [TS]

  the huge number of sci-fi franchises [TS]

  that we've had since then it's just it's [TS]

  kind of mind-boggling but you're totally [TS]

  right like that was the climate of the [TS]

  times i remember going to see this in [TS]

  the movie theater and being really [TS]

  excited about another star trek movie [TS]

  especially after first contact and it [TS]

  was just a that came out this going on [TS]

  was that [TS]

  yeah yeah I actually liked it better [TS]

  this time watching it and I good when I [TS]

  saw in the theater because when i was in [TS]

  the theater I had high hopes for it when [TS]

  i watch out today I mean this is an [TS]

  episode called bad Star Trek movies like [TS]

  I do I wasn't in for much so it didn't [TS]

  have any expectations to live up to its [TS]

  an episode with a big budget that's [TS]

  basically I mean that's my biggest [TS]

  criticism of it actually is i can [TS]

  complain about the SONA and I and the [TS]

  little cgi woodchuck or whatever his put [TS]

  but really it's just you know that's why [TS]

  i don't think it's particularly bad up [TS]

  or bad episode see what i just said a [TS]

  bad movie it's just it's not a movie [TS]

  it's just kind of there it's an episode [TS]

  of Star Trek The Next Generation with a [TS]

  bigger budget and it's not special and [TS]

  next-generation you know and not every [TS]

  episode Embry was saying this about you [TS]

  know not every episode needs to be [TS]

  special went into TV series but one of [TS]

  the movie it kind of needs to be special [TS]

  and insurrection is not it's just not [TS]

  know it and there [TS]

  an additional element to this win the [TS]

  started coming out when Star Wars was [TS]

  also coming out like this is there's a [TS]

  six-month separation between this and [TS]

  the Phantom Menace ah and with nemesis [TS]

  was the same year is a attack of the [TS]

  clones and even though [TS]

  attack of the clones horrible movie how [TS]

  he just in terms of like the the pop [TS]

  culture awareness of everyone you know [TS]

  tuning into something with with science [TS]

  fiction film it's just like why would [TS]

  you pay attention to either these two [TS]

  star trek movies over that [TS]

  yeah I mean there's so many reasons I I [TS]

  feel like now maybe the climate is [TS]

  actually a little bit better we did that [TS]

  episode of the uncomfortable while ago [TS]

  about the the new star trek see TV [TS]

  series coming from CBS and you know if [TS]

  you talk about if you listen to what [TS]

  paramount is saying about the star trek [TS]

  film franchise it's entirely possible i [TS]

  mean that they're starting it could go [TS]

  bad but they're they're starting to [TS]

  think about like what if Star Trek was [TS]

  Abe wider universe more like Star Wars [TS]

  or the Marvel movies and they had [TS]

  different movies that were not tied to [TS]

  just uh you know just the the TV shows [TS]

  or the the classic characters and the [TS]

  funny thing is any Star Trek fans going [TS]

  to say well of course Star Trek's always [TS]

  been bigger than anyone show but it [TS]

  seems to have taken the success of the [TS]

  Marvel movies and then you know looking [TS]

  at what they're doing with Star Wars for [TS]

  the stewards of the franchise to say oh [TS]

  you know what we could probably do that [TS]

  the star track and so now they're [TS]

  figuring it out but you know Star Trek [TS]

  could have been the Marvel movies in the [TS]

  nineties or the 2,000 if they had had [TS]

  some vision but instead they just felt [TS]

  like it was a continuation of a TV show [TS]

  and how broad is a movie based on a TV [TS]

  show [TS]

  I mean I don't know maybe the entourage [TS]

  movie did really well it didn't but you [TS]

  know it's it's a limited audience so I [TS]

  don't know I feel like the kind of [TS]

  painting themselves in a corner and [TS]

  maybe they finally figured out now but [TS]

  it is it just seemed like an awful waste [TS]

  to to go through all this and end up [TS]

  with no you didn't even mention i [TS]

  believe the budgets for these star trek [TS]

  movies a fraction of the Star Wars [TS]

  movies [TS]

  oh yeah so this was a 58 million for [TS]

  insurrection and [TS]

  a phantom menace i think was a hundred [TS]

  and well or something like that so you [TS]

  know so you know you compare them on [TS]

  screen and for all we can say about the [TS]

  Phantom Menace it a little it sounds [TS]

  great it looks great it's got all these [TS]

  I can explain exactly what things about [TS]

  the man tonight not happy [TS]

  motion denied even I am done defending [TS]

  the prequels after seeing episode 7 [TS]

  alike yet there can be good Star Wars [TS]

  movies around alkaline trio story [TS]

  yeah technically episode one spectacular [TS]

  technically spectacular and then you [TS]

  look at insurrection you're like CGI [TS]

  here's is terrible it's really hot so ya [TS]

  can compare droid armies to the little [TS]

  flying drone things actually that was a [TS]

  hard one of the things that really got [TS]

  my goat was it the little flying drone [TS]

  things and that obnoxious scene where we [TS]

  get the pan across everybody has their [TS]

  reading reading their weapons [TS]

  the Browns are just sitting there [TS]

  waiting the camera for any surprise our [TS]

  heroes and then they start so you know [TS]

  there's a pan happening we've got to [TS]

  stop the data nice to his jump and shoot [TS]

  thing it's gonna be really really [TS]

  dramatically shooter [TS]

  let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

  one of our sponsors it's the walking [TS]

  dead collectors models officially [TS]

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  I have a bunch of them in front of me [TS]

  right now I've got Tyrese here they sent [TS]

  these to me I've got the governor who [TS]

  looks super menacing as usual shown you [TS]

  know she's got that sword [TS]

  it's pretty awesome Glenn is here just [TS]

  gonna have a baseball cap on though I [TS]

  think he's not wearing a baseball cap [TS]

  what's wrong claim come on find that hat [TS]

  daryl dixon I've got here Darrell Scott [TS]

  is his gun i got Merle with his crazy [TS]

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  door so I guess I've got seven months [TS]

  worth right on my desk right now it's [TS]

  pretty awesome i can make a little [TS]

  dioramas of them i can keep them in the [TS]

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  it looks great [TS]

  check it out TWD collection calm / smell [TS]

  and thanks to eaglemoss for sponsoring [TS]

  the incomparable what is with the [TS]

  Western thing Dave's got like a saddle [TS]

  up line and you know I like that length [TS]

  so when we talk about what did with data [TS]

  what all the characters doing this data [TS]

  is the plot mechanic for a while because [TS]

  he's kind of malfunctioning but it turns [TS]

  out that his his moral and ethical [TS]

  subroutines take over whenever he's [TS]

  damaged ok but but at the end or in that [TS]

  scene in the captain's yacht which was [TS]

  by the way always on the blueprints of [TS]

  the enterprise was that there was a [TS]

  captain's yacht and we never saw it and [TS]

  as a fan of of the next generation that [TS]

  was always a little theoretically on the [TS]

  bottom of the saucer there's this [TS]

  captain's yacht nobody ever talked about [TS]

  it in this movie the card is packing in [TS]

  the stuff and all that was supposed to [TS]

  feel like diplomacy I don't know Dan I [TS]

  don't know why they have the captain but [TS]

  they do but there's a great that that's [TS]

  a great moment when they point out well [TS]

  data says everybody else here is feeling [TS]

  the effects so they may be having [TS]

  youthful rebellious tendencies but not [TS]

  me and progresses well what about you [TS]

  David he's like lock and load [TS]

  saddle up let's do it and that's a great [TS]

  that is actually a legitimately great [TS]

  moment in the movie because it is he is [TS]

  he is completely logical and says we [TS]

  need to we need to do this insurrection [TS]

  and I like that part that's that's a [TS]

  nice moment together it makes me cringe [TS]

  I don't love the dialogue I don't like a [TS]

  saddle saddle up with brent Spiner I [TS]

  don't like that but i like i like the [TS]

  moments leading up to it i do I let the [TS]

  idea that data is you know David's got [TS]

  something to say here that he's totally [TS]

  you know he's totally not affected by [TS]

  this he doesn't have a Gorch or anything [TS]

  like that [TS]

  did anything he well he's already been [TS]

  interest mood as an interest that and [TS]

  yeah the jokes the jokes I would watch [TS]

  the webseries settle up with brent [TS]

  Spiner anyway i don't know i mean it is [TS]

  it fair to say that this is not you know [TS]

  it's not it's not a grotesquely bad [TS]

  movie it's just kind of there [TS]

  you know i will say this i enjoyed the [TS]

  music all the way through insurrection [TS]

  and that is not something i can say [TS]

  about the next film Argo one of the sad [TS]

  things about all of these bad Star Trek [TS]

  movies all four of them that we watched [TS]

  are scored by Jerry Goldsmith who is a [TS]

  hero is 82 up your professional and i [TS]

  will say the part I didn't notice the [TS]

  one part I really music stood out to me [TS]

  is when I Worf beats up some guy and [TS]

  they give you a call back to the Klingon [TS]

  yeah throne hits the drone with a phaser [TS]

  rifle and ditto back to and from the [TS]

  original motion picture which is a great [TS]

  area i mean i will be the score for the [TS]

  motion picture is fantasy it is the [TS]

  jerry goldsmith works on work on that is [TS]

  among his best and it's great having [TS]

  school administrators movies i don't [TS]

  know i think that was a what happened to [TS]

  your citizens will well I guess we'll [TS]

  get there it's I sorry Jerry Goldsmith [TS]

  you you weren't the problem but uh [TS]

  thatthat's that is it Jerry Goldsmith [TS]

  through with this movie [TS]

  ok let's talk about Star Trek nemesis [TS]

  let's do it [TS]

  Star Trek Star Trek 10 we according to [TS]

  some star trek nemesis i believe the [TS]

  title says star teac menaces because [TS]

  they have a Russian are ok that works on [TS]

  it was a toys r us ad the ads for to [TS]

  that to the namespace directed by stuart [TS]

  bear you may know him from u.s. marshals [TS]

  written by john logan the the [TS]

  screenwriter of gladiator which I would [TS]

  say is one of the worst best picture [TS]

  winners of all time I just watched it [TS]

  recently for the first time ever here [TS]

  here's my one word review gladiator you [TS]

  ready [TS]

  Battier later oh I see what you did [TS]

  yesterday and the other one I mean this [TS]

  is a guy who also wrote Specter Skyfall [TS]

  Hugo I mean in some there's some decent [TS]

  movies there maybe not great movies but [TS]

  there he's a he's not a terrible writer [TS]

  he has written some decent movie its [TS]

  interests will be tornado they brought [TS]

  in paper interview that's about [TS]

  explanation they um they brought in new [TS]

  director jonathan frakes director the [TS]

  last two they brought in John Logan [TS]

  although the score story credit is with [TS]

  Rick Berman who was the guy who was like [TS]

  the Running Start rack after Gene [TS]

  Roddenberry died and brent Spiner has a [TS]

  story credit here which is also bizarre [TS]

  and a bad sign i would say whenever one [TS]

  of your cast members sorry start start [TS]

  beyond Simon Pegg screenplay credit um [TS]

  the so stark nemesis the whole premise [TS]

  here is Tom Hardy it's years before he [TS]

  was bein sorry like work before he was [TS]

  building dog man is is a clone of [TS]

  Captain Picard who's for some reason [TS]

  they were gonna try to replace Captain [TS]

  Picard and the but just as we meet him [TS]

  he's starting to decay and die from [TS]

  failed cloning something-or-other anyway [TS]

  up one of RNA Jason his or his RNA thank [TS]

  you rule anyway so he's he's compile or [TS]

  RNA sequence with the Riemann's who were [TS]

  like next to the Romulans but not the [TS]

  Romulans mental kind of like vampires [TS]

  from buffy the vampire slayer' and duck [TS]

  and and what's in ron perlman is helpful [TS]

  at TVs hellboy sorry movies hellboy is [TS]

  the Viceroy has his pal [TS]

  I don't know they have a plan to destroy [TS]

  everybody with this weapon that is [TS]

  creepy and they lower the enterprise [TS]

  with eighth a data prototype called [TS]

  before uh [TS]

  at which they leave on a planet which [TS]

  leads to a very exciting except not [TS]

  exciting at all dune buggy scenes it was [TS]

  interminable and then in the end they [TS]

  crashed the ships together and data [TS]

  sacrifices himself to phaser the thing [TS]

  and blow it up and then they say we give [TS]

  up and there are no more next generation [TS]

  the movies I think that's pretty much [TS]

  how this one ok so i had a couple [TS]

  comments about this is off the top one [TS]

  it's it's actually a much better looking [TS]

  movie than insurrection and gases just [TS]

  interim looks like a TV episode [TS]

  this looks like a movie there are some [TS]

  good i mean like patrick stewart and i'm [TS]

  sitting on the Box looks like a movie [TS]

  I mean that's restored and tom hardy [TS]

  both good actors and i actually had like [TS]

  the premise that there is like a clone [TS]

  of the card like that's kind of a cool [TS]

  entry direction I know although i will [TS]

  say the Porco's again saga did that same [TS]

  plot much better and the idea that you [TS]

  have scenes work Picard his clone are [TS]

  doing like hello I'm just like you it [TS]

  sounds like those students would be good [TS]

  right it's so boring it's so worried why [TS]

  is this boring i can't figure it out it [TS]

  should be good but it's boring haha [TS]

  every time that they're talking about [TS]

  how they're very similar it's like [TS]

  they're not actually similar at all the [TS]

  words pet restored impression ever will [TS]

  very much like you and I captain you [TS]

  have a note we are you have a chin with [TS]

  a cleft and I have a PCM no hair just [TS]

  like to look left so we're very similar [TS]

  I felt like Captain Picard is more [TS]

  especially by this point is life more [TS]

  self-aware and more self-assured then [TS]

  was required for this plot so they just [TS]

  don't him down and make sure of himself [TS]

  so that he could have this elusive moral [TS]

  dilemma that just does not play the [TS]

  board the lemon or the lumber is like [TS]

  what i have done this it's like that's [TS]

  not even relevant [TS]

  definitely like okay so what I would [TS]

  have done this so i should give him a [TS]

  pass i'm just killing in Kentucky you [TS]

  know I Tom party tom hardy is given a [TS]

  very difficult this month [TS]

  Tom Hardy's very first roles he's given [TS]

  a difficult job he isn't makeup to try [TS]

  to make them look a little more like [TS]

  patrick stewart young Patrick Stewart [TS]

  when I apparently that's James McAvoy I [TS]

  sorry franchise my girlfriend actually [TS]

  thought it was James McAvoy for a moment [TS]

  I was like that's weird [TS]

  so is it but you know I IE tries and [TS]

  there are some moments with him that are [TS]

  kind of interesting but you're right the [TS]

  problem is that I that Patrick Stewart [TS]

  has got it so together to what you [TS]

  really want is like decisions on [TS]

  legitimately struggling with being a [TS]

  good person or kind of following the [TS]

  goals of his Viceroy and because there's [TS]

  this is this implication that the [TS]

  Riemann's are these put up on people [TS]

  there bends the slaves to the Romulans [TS]

  and now they're having a revolt and and [TS]

  yet it gets caught up in this kind of [TS]

  like button Bond villain ask i'm going [TS]

  to destroy Earth thing instead of like [TS]

  let's right the wrongs in the Romulan [TS]

  Empire it would have been an interesting [TS]

  story if the idea was like Picard trying [TS]

  to to steer his clone essentially his [TS]

  twin into making the right choices [TS]

  instead of the wrong choices but instead [TS]

  the heat you know he's just a James Bond [TS]

  villain it's all part of a plot before [TS]

  has been poisoned with bad information [TS]

  to make him a spy it except there's a [TS]

  double-cross and in the end they kind of [TS]

  waste this whole premise of of Picard is [TS]

  clone and like nature versus nurture [TS]

  it's just in the end it's just kind of [TS]

  why even do it and they make data stupid [TS]

  the reason that this whole thing off its [TS]

  fake data thing comes in is it suddenly [TS]

  for some reason data is dumb enough he [TS]

  doesn't think to change his passwords [TS]

  before like know what really gets me is [TS]

  have any of you ever read the original [TS]

  Star Trek nemesis script with where it [TS]

  wasn't before it was benign has yeah I [TS]

  had repaired that's great with benign [TS]

  yeah it is this is what fundamentally [TS]

  can't understand because before this [TS]

  movie came out this was the era when [TS]

  like dinner where scripts are being [TS]

  leaked on the Internet [TS]

  it was really big problem yeah I read [TS]

  the generation script like us a year [TS]

  before it came out absolutely so we were [TS]

  all doing that and i remember reading [TS]

  this and thinking my god this is really [TS]

  this is gonna be a powerful movie like [TS]

  they're gonna kill the the Romulan [TS]

  Senate it's like you said Jason they're [TS]

  all these scenes with like Picard and [TS]

  his clone like really feeling like [TS]

  echoes of each other and the dialogue is [TS]

  really sharp and and painful and then I [TS]

  remember going to the theater go [TS]

  what happened did get a sort of rider [TS]

  hid themselves in the head with [TS]

  something [TS]

  what is going on here i I don't [TS]

  understand because this is a very power [TS]

  this is story that could be told [TS]

  extremely extremely well there's no [TS]

  premise that is so good it can't be [TS]

  flooded and there's no premise that's so [TS]

  bad it can't be done well this is an [TS]

  exceptional idea and it's like Tom Hardy [TS]

  is an exceptional actor in other things [TS]

  I think so it's clearly not him is an [TS]

  actor unless he was just drastically [TS]

  works back then it got some good [TS]

  training I I don't understand what [TS]

  happened here [TS]

  I look like I'm letting this i will say [TS]

  this for nemesis that in that first [TS]

  scene when you were looking at the the [TS]

  Romulan senator whatever it's it's [TS]

  already better as far as I women's [TS]

  representation and places of power than [TS]

  star trek into darkness was yeah I'm [TS]

  just ready to have another both of these [TS]

  are then in in both gender and diversity [TS]

  well no no it gets it gets much worse [TS]

  for the rest of the movie [TS]

  yeah because that's 10 Romulan woman [TS]

  using her sexiness to try to get yeah [TS]

  and then we get a dream rape scene that [TS]

  that is we are destroyed that choice but [TS]

  i didn't really present for a minute I [TS]

  was i am not going to say it was okay [TS]

  with it but for a minute when it's troy [TS]

  that actually gets to be the one who [TS]

  uses her psychic connection to sort of [TS]

  get her own revenge I was like yeah they [TS]

  gave her agency they're not having [TS]

  somebody to fight for her right and then [TS]

  they ruined it all by having Riker be [TS]

  the one that has the showdown with the [TS]

  dude that did that in the first place [TS]

  was like nope you lost me [TS]

  why do they send Riker into the [TS]

  corridors to just do a fight scene and [TS]

  then that and and [TS]

  in the moment you're like ha there's [TS]

  fighting this it's it's like there was a [TS]

  again a producer not like more hand and [TS]

  fighting all right we'll have regular [TS]

  gonna but the moment that made me laugh [TS]

  out loud is when at the very end breaker [TS]

  just kind of shows up back on the bridge [TS]

  at the end like hey guys i was in that [TS]

  fight scene but I'm back now i have any [TS]

  questions about that fight see why not [TS]

  send wharf [TS]

  yeah I know what when why not have a [TS]

  cover for that Jefferies tube that [TS]

  people could just fall that is there a [TS]

  judge and the shaft with a precarious [TS]

  bridge somewhere in the innards of the [TS]

  enterprise the same people make the [TS]

  catwalks in the storm star wars and star [TS]

  lifestyle and these at least heron [TS]

  handrails though they just don't work [TS]

  when they're turned on the side but i [TS]

  have just screws here then screw them [TS]

  into the bulkhead so that's good [TS]

  yeah well it also doesn't make any sense [TS]

  be Dec 29 and let's not get it looks [TS]

  like i said how much is right blue [TS]

  prints i didn't have the trip Dec 29 [TS]

  that line i was i was saying to myself [TS]

  random number generator 29 and is the [TS]

  birthdate of your child's like why so [TS]

  specifically Dec 29 but they said write [TS]

  her off and and I again it just feels [TS]

  completely kind of bogus like we need to [TS]

  give Riker something to do so why don't [TS]

  we have a big fight scene with this one [TS]

  Riemann who's left on the ship and and [TS]

  many dispatches him by having employment [TS]

  to his death so was that or was that not [TS]

  the the Viceroy I don't run the right [TS]

  ring finger ya see what I can tell [TS]

  you're always the same sorry mythology [TS]

  always look like to be gracious i don't [TS]

  have a great time with all I think it [TS]

  was because he's getting revenge on the [TS]

  you know but the dude that violated his [TS]

  woman which is what made me so mad I [TS]

  guess also using mr. Troy as an insult [TS]

  was just another thing that made me [TS]

  shake my mom makes it so frustrated [TS]

  about these two movies is if you [TS]

  remember this era like deep space nine [TS]

  was much better than tangi which was [TS]

  much better about ta centos and having [TS]

  women be on the show you don't have [TS]

  agency and be characters and then voyage [TS]

  our camera which is just by far the best [TS]

  Star Trek statistically they've looked [TS]

  at it it is [TS]

  and women representation and whether on [TS]

  certain that and we get and we gotta [TS]

  Janeway cameo a nemesis that's actually [TS]

  terrible fire woman could have been any [TS]

  generic Admiral and it's Admiral Janeway [TS]

  with a stronger than you think simply [TS]

  card and look at the way they're women [TS]

  actually get your curfew speak and be [TS]

  characters in this in this particular [TS]

  one it is really bad and you know it's [TS]

  like you say we have like a psychic rape [TS]

  scene that's not really a closet [TS]

  indicator that you're on the right track [TS]

  there i think they take a break to tell [TS]

  you about one of our sponsors it is [TS]

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  to audible for sponsoring the [TS]

  incomparable [TS]

  there's a moment where there where they [TS]

  are where they're going to beam down to [TS]

  to Romulus and he's like all right away [TS]

  team let's go to this invitation that [TS]

  they've gotten where they just kind of [TS]

  go around [TS]

  well I guess we'll just fly to Romulus [TS]

  by the way I had questions about that [TS]

  too like let's just cross the neutral [TS]

  zone and going around it'll be okay we [TS]

  got an invitation could we show you our [TS]

  invitation card that we got from the [TS]

  congratulations on he said we can come [TS]

  and then they just start are hovering [TS]

  around like I guess we'll just wait here [TS]

  until they tell us what to do for [TS]

  independent team something hours nobody [TS]

  talks to them all that and then finally [TS]

  they they picked they send them the [TS]

  invite you know beyond down here the [TS]

  locations and he says okay away team [TS]

  let's go and there's that moment where [TS]

  they all leave the bridges like there's [TS]

  nobody left on the bridge was like the [TS]

  senior staff [TS]

  yeah all the terrible idea [TS]

  supernumeraries are there but what [TS]

  struck me of that scene 2 is that I [TS]

  think there's like one woman and all the [TS]

  supernumeraries and i'm kinda like come [TS]

  on guys [TS]

  yeah this is your opportunity to just [TS]

  like it to be a little bit nopee there [TS]

  it's just like our extras or white guys [TS]

  then no okay and there's nobody else [TS]

  left on the ship because we've all all [TS]

  the important characters have now beam [TS]

  down to to have the lengthy boring [TS]

  supposedly creepy scene where Tom Hardy [TS]

  takes the lights up a little bit talk to [TS]

  a smart light bulbs as serie turn up the [TS]

  lights a little hasn't turned back down [TS]

  a little bit [TS]

  ron perlman kind of comes in and growls [TS]

  and then goes back out again goes on [TS]

  forever it's really boring i suppose [TS]

  we're supposed to be in that whole scene [TS]

  we're supposed to be like oh my god oh [TS]

  my god oh my god it's Picard is a young [TS]

  Picard oh my god but not only does that [TS]

  not happen but then in the movie it's [TS]

  like I kept waiting for tom hardy to be [TS]

  like you getting it yet have you figured [TS]

  it out yet [TS]

  do you see this smile if I serious [TS]

  anxiety when he does it's it's but I I [TS]

  kept waiting for it to be broader [TS]

  because it's like first off their plant [TS]

  you can't play it like it's obvious and [TS]

  also that you didn't get it but that's [TS]

  what this movie does it say you and I [TS]

  are not so different because work is why [TS]

  right so the card [TS]

  literally invited to dinner and says [TS]

  just the one yes he does [TS]

  we don't know what's worse than that [TS]

  it's like just the two of us we should i [TS]

  say no uh-uh I don't understand was just [TS]

  a bad that's a bad scene that's I'm just [TS]

  missing anything Justin right legend [TS]

  says yeah I think you'll be this isn't [TS]

  it is the tradition of the Riemann [TS]

  greeting here let me be done this night [TS]

  for you [TS]

  well this is also the scene to where [TS]

  he's super creepy about like i've never [TS]

  seen a human woman before tonight [TS]

  ok yeah that was crazy but not in the I [TS]

  don't think it was creepy the way they [TS]

  were going for you know now yeah it was [TS]

  it was definitely not what they were [TS]

  going for it [TS]

  no I'm against what they were going to [TS]

  get a weapon again if he has a story arc [TS]

  where he's actually this messed-up guy [TS]

  who might be good and it might be bad [TS]

  and he's feel feels totally isolated and [TS]

  its first time seeing humans you could [TS]

  see it as being a very Star Trek kind of [TS]

  shorthand of oh he doesn't know about [TS]

  you know how proper behavior is and it [TS]

  would be it wouldn't be good but it [TS]

  would be very Star Trek but none of that [TS]

  is built up he's just like this totally [TS]

  creepy James Bond villain I mean I'm a [TS]

  little surprised he doesn't have a [TS]

  Romulan cat to stroke while he's talking [TS]

  because he is these got the bald [TS]

  everything in the pleather the whole [TS]

  thing that can make it was too hard to [TS]

  put on but the shoulder pets all the [TS]

  shoulder pads but let's rainbow out the [TS]

  applets oh yeah he's like a bug's [TS]

  carapaces care [TS]

  yes Romulans don't have a set match [TS]

  I didn't really like his origin story [TS]

  either which is well they sent me to [TS]

  they did they they made me this clone [TS]

  because they had this plot but then it [TS]

  didn't work out so they sent me to the [TS]

  the the slaves and they raised me and [TS]

  then we had a revolt and here i am [TS]

  putting you have a note in my notes that [TS]

  just it's three words it says backstory [TS]

  is boring [TS]

  that's where it doesn't really make any [TS]

  sense you're this big secret weapon and [TS]

  then they throw you away but you lead a [TS]

  revolt and now that you've got through [TS]

  the revolt all worked out let don't [TS]

  don't ask for specifics about that but [TS]

  again he leads a revolt but he also in [TS]

  his backstory he's led like 12 battles [TS]

  for the Romulan Empire against the [TS]

  Dominion [TS]

  yeah why is the wire the Romulans [TS]

  letting him command ships doesn't make [TS]

  sense you can you know you can build a [TS]

  special super-secret prototype warbird a [TS]

  super secret base that he has access to [TS]

  for some reason also it's amazing and [TS]

  perfect cloaking and all these also use [TS]

  ships on it wow they are really not [TS]

  paying any attention to the Riemann well [TS]

  he's he's that he's like well that is [TS]

  very much a star trek into darkness [TS]

  thing to where it's like I don't really [TS]

  believe that one person can go off and [TS]

  build an advanced starship on their home [TS]

  be smothered one piece in every day [TS]

  yep an issue it is and it in his pants [TS]

  and he was just like let it fall on the [TS]

  floor and yeah oh yeah I have another [TS]

  note my notes are just just a little bit [TS]

  after that it's a forward such already [TS]

  tweeted about this just I just don't [TS]

  care [TS]

  you mean it was a terrible way we're [TS]

  going to tell my notes admitted i think [TS]

  i did tweet my favorite lines in this [TS]

  movie which is I have an appointment [TS]

  with the fully ambassador which is how [TS]

  the Romulan say they're going to the [TS]

  bathroom [TS]

  oh that's right so what would the other [TS]

  they're really gets me about this movie [TS]

  is I don't know how you all feel but one [TS]

  of the things that makes wrath of kind [TS]

  so powerful for me is box death see it [TS]

  move yet deeply every time I see it and [TS]

  I always cry I always will cry and we [TS]

  knew the data was going to die [TS]

  going into this movie and I just feel [TS]

  like it's so disrespectful how badly [TS]

  they executed this like be four is a [TS]

  horrible take on David like Laura's at [TS]

  least an interesting extrapolation of [TS]

  who data is in like his dark side and [TS]

  like the the struggle with emotions vs [TS]

  growth and humanity that is interesting [TS]

  before is just a really terrible mr. [TS]

  scenario type about some about some [TS]

  marginalized groups and to have data is [TS]

  death scene [TS]

  who's probably like besides Picard the [TS]

  most beloved character if not the most [TS]

  beloved character certainly of TNG be so [TS]

  cheap and crappily written and just [TS]

  thrown away and so incidental and so [TS]

  meaningless [TS]

  is such a massive amount of disrespect [TS]

  to that character it makes me angry but [TS]

  would you all agree the anomaly the [TS]

  amount of upset i was at data being [TS]

  stupid for not changing his password is [TS]

  well here to the rage I feel for him [TS]

  being so stupid he didn't give captain [TS]

  picard the little transporter thing [TS]

  before he just started to wear actually [TS]

  yeah what yeah baby and and no amount of [TS]

  toasts from chateau Picard wine after [TS]

  he's died will because again although [TS]

  the the coffin scenester to is poignant [TS]

  it's made more poignant by the fact that [TS]

  we have the spot death scene where as [TS]

  datas death scene is he sticks a thing [TS]

  on Picard and fires his phaser into a [TS]

  glowing thing and that's it and that's [TS]

  all we get and and it's unfulfilling the [TS]

  the fact that before seems to have his [TS]

  memories and it's very clearly like the [TS]

  you know obviously in the next in the [TS]

  next movie that was never made data [TS]

  would be back because they they make a [TS]

  point in the script of saying he's [TS]

  physically exactly like me it's only his [TS]

  mind that's different and i'm putting my [TS]

  memories in him it's very clearly set up [TS]

  kind of like the remember thing and [TS]

  start to always get Briana Briana was [TS]

  gonna take it back even further and say [TS]

  I feel like this movie more than any [TS]

  other star trek movie is trying so hard [TS]

  to be star trek to guess on every level [TS]

  anyone bail on every level of being star [TS]

  trek to ya [TS]

  star trek to and star trek 6 which were [TS]

  both will start with 6 is trying to be [TS]

  star trek to this is true your head so [TS]

  it's like it more successfully [TS]

  I like it yeah I know about Star Trek's [TS]

  is one of my favorites i met distant i'm [TS]

  just saying that that that it is [TS]

  starting to is the Goldfinger of of Star [TS]

  Trek movies basically where they every [TS]

  time it's just like hey we need [TS]

  something the audience likes let's go [TS]

  let's go up mind something from that and [TS]

  so yeah but if it totally not well [TS]

  executed at all here horrible job you [TS]

  feel cheated you don't feel any of the [TS]

  the sweeping emotional response that you [TS]

  feel in in star trek to there's no real [TS]

  cleverness there's no the Enterprise [TS]

  crew out thinking anyone else like they [TS]

  just hit a ship into another ship [TS]

  yeah is it just feels cheap and weird [TS]

  technically well executed but you don't [TS]

  you don't respond to what you're seeing [TS]

  like it's it's it's a total disconnect [TS]

  it's a weird like again you know [TS]

  comparing once again to the movie before [TS]

  this he as bad as weird as the character [TS]

  executions are in that movie those [TS]

  characters are recognizable where is so [TS]

  many places here it feels like people [TS]

  it feels like the whole clone thing it's [TS]

  like people who look like the characters [TS]

  that you know but don't really act or [TS]

  talk or have any personality like the [TS]

  characters you know a lot of the scenes [TS]

  I mean and I'd I think that's why data [TS]

  is death ring so Hollow is in some ways [TS]

  it's just like well this is a real like [TS]

  this this is all just like a holiday [TS]

  like this is just a simulation his [TS]

  sacrifice you don't see them Spock there [TS]

  is a moment answer to that is a [TS]

  beautiful moment then you may miss it if [TS]

  it's the first time you've seen it but [TS]

  after you've seen it once you see it and [TS]

  it's the moment where he's on the bridge [TS]

  and he decides to go down and fix the [TS]

  ship that's the most boxes I will [TS]

  sacrifice myself to save these people [TS]

  because otherwise we're all gonna die so [TS]

  i'm going to die and they're going to [TS]

  live and he he does it's silent he gets [TS]

  up he leaves the bridge and he goes down [TS]

  their data you know he does have Georgie [TS]

  like turn off the force field so we can [TS]

  fly over to the other ship and all but [TS]

  you know it's and part of it is setup [TS]

  it's like it's this this by the way the [TS]

  mutagenic whatever it is radiation [TS]

  weapon that the that the Romulans have [TS]

  are the reasons have on the shit so ever [TS]

  that it takes like 15 minutes to go as [TS]

  to all unfold all these spines and all [TS]

  in or do it seems highly impractical for [TS]

  for this and the data is there with a [TS]

  minute to spare and uh and you know what [TS]

  I'm saying is it doesn't feel learned i [TS]

  mean i guess after he blows up the ship [TS]

  were supposed to feel like that the only [TS]

  way that it's not going to fire on the [TS]

  enterprise's if he blows it up but the [TS]

  rules aren't as clear as that and you [TS]

  kind of feel like couldn't wasn't there [TS]

  another alternative data [TS]

  blowing yourself up it just it I again [TS]

  that with Spock you like here it is and [TS]

  then we get to see we get to say goodbye [TS]

  and then it's over and and this was [TS]

  likely yeah let's do that too [TS]

  it's it's against the breakout character [TS]

  who's not the lead and he he's involved [TS]

  in the story he obviously wants to kill [TS]

  his character off just like in Star Trek [TS]

  to let's do it and they don't do it they [TS]

  blew it [TS]

  yeah well I'm also it started to your [TS]

  not mad at Kirk when smokey eyes and in [TS]

  this i'm at Picard he's standing around [TS]

  like with since on bleeding on him and [TS]

  he's like oh I guess I'll just stand [TS]

  here on against this wall [TS]

  yes some light pressure being applied to [TS]

  me by a corpse and it is it's just like [TS]

  what are you doing you you could totally [TS]

  get out and get that phaser and blow [TS]

  this thing up at yourself [TS]

  yeah he's just well he's horrified [TS]

  because he's killed himself think [TS]

  they're tried yeah but I don't buy it [TS]

  but now what I think it's that he's [TS]

  tired from that fighting that wouldn't [TS]

  end well he also rip that thing off the [TS]

  wall so that takes a lot of effort yet [TS]

  amazed don't make your don't make your [TS]

  your little ship parts with spines that [TS]

  can be pulled down easily and used to [TS]

  ram me through people yeah you're uh [TS]

  you're looking a little impale their [TS]

  haha [TS]

  also even I would have been a better [TS]

  looking at you getting impaled what I [TS]

  recommend is sliding further down closer [TS]

  to your killed and their hands roaming [TS]

  around regular it was bird can I touch [TS]

  your hair [TS]

  your hair [TS]

  what were they thinking what were they [TS]

  so this movie I talking is so in our [TS]

  last bad Star Trek thing you know I [TS]

  talked about how i got really mad at [TS]

  Star Trek five like Star Trek the motion [TS]

  picture was just bored started five was [TS]

  like no no what are you doing a nemesis [TS]

  I never really got to the rage levels [TS]

  i I just was so disconnected from like [TS]

  why but it wasn't boredom it was just [TS]

  like you guys aren't even like you're [TS]

  not even in the ballpark I can't even [TS]

  I'm a district 5 because I felt like I [TS]

  understood what they were trying to do [TS]

  it was stupid and he was just like no [TS]

  forget it like it's not even it i just i [TS]

  think if i had one word of what I was [TS]

  feeling while watching this movie was [TS]

  contempt which is a bad thing for a [TS]

  lifelong Star Trek fan feel for a star [TS]

  trek movie I will also say after the [TS]

  reviews of this movie I never even saw [TS]

  it in the theater this is the only star [TS]

  trek movie I never saw in the theater [TS]

  because because everybody said it was [TS]

  terrible and then i will I bought it on [TS]

  DVD and i watched it one time and then [TS]

  never again without you destroy the DVD [TS]

  yeah this is my first time I only [TS]

  watched it because if you guys know [TS]

  you're what i will say i was bored [TS]

  boredom was biting like in all capital [TS]

  letters that is that is what i use to [TS]

  describe my feeling about this movie [TS]

  yeah I i well I saw this in theaters was [TS]

  very excited about the soundtrack first [TS]

  like brianna i also read the screenplay [TS]

  first it was turned up to not be exactly [TS]

  like the film I he disappointment that I [TS]

  felt was kind of like I won't say it was [TS]

  exactly the same as my phantom menace [TS]

  denial of initially seeing something and [TS]

  then being like maybe it was good it was [TS]

  it was sort of like I don't know what I [TS]

  just saw when I walked out and I was [TS]

  kind of sad and angry at the same time [TS]

  because this was it just felt like this [TS]

  was leading up to such a big thing like [TS]

  they had taken out these big ads for [TS]

  Oscar consideration for the visual [TS]

  effects and they'd done almost every [TS]

  roof [TS]

  yeah then all the stuff for the press [TS]

  for this and it was just like you guys [TS]

  blew it like this this yes it is such a [TS]

  catastrophe and I could tell like from [TS]

  seeing this that this was this was it [TS]

  like it was it was such a depressing [TS]

  moment for me and you know I had seen [TS]

  insurrection in the theater I didn't get [TS]

  that same feeling of like this is it [TS]

  this is over like no this this felt like [TS]

  it was over [TS]

  well plus you have a more like that's ok [TS]

  this is [TS]

  on movie an odd movie goes it's ok with [TS]

  you even when we were really going to [TS]

  get him with the even movie [TS]

  oh and and go to jason's point this [TS]

  isn't even so dumb like I feel like with [TS]

  the yeah the rage thing is fun because [TS]

  then at least you get wrapped up in like [TS]

  all this movie so bad it's like what's [TS]

  at least of the bad movie i can make fun [TS]

  of where is this movie that like I was [TS]

  trying to tweet stupid things about it [TS]

  and I don't I lost interest [TS]

  so you can be saying dumb things about [TS]

  this movie yeah it's not i mean it and [TS]

  what's for the vexing about it is it [TS]

  doesn't look good [TS]

  it looks good it is it is technically [TS]

  competent obviously i mean i don't i [TS]

  don't actually know maybe Joe knows it [TS]

  feels like a lot less cheap an [TS]

  insurrection does it feels like they [TS]

  spent money on the sets they mean they [TS]

  certainly spend money on the pointless [TS]

  desert dune buggy scene which that which [TS]

  is Stuart barons crowning achievement [TS]

  that he was so proud of including yes so [TS]

  that it's so useless and it feels like [TS]

  something out of a screenwriting [TS]

  handbook like what you need to have an [TS]

  initial action seem to keep the audience [TS]

  engaged at the beginning of the movie so [TS]

  we're going to have this thing where [TS]

  there's there on dune buggy and they try [TS]

  to play it four laps a little bit like [TS]

  Picard was wanted to take the dune buggy [TS]

  out but you know you shouldn't have like [TS]

  landspeeders or something at this point [TS]

  star trek it's just gotta be there like [TS]

  stuck simulation cars aim dune buggies [TS]

  as the pre-warp civilization that then [TS]

  chases them yeah yeah it it's a it's [TS]

  stuff like that where that that was [TS]

  expensive and you can tell that it was [TS]

  expensive so okay fair enough it it [TS]

  feels like they spent a lot of money on [TS]

  it but it's just it's just awful [TS]

  it's just not in a good me at any point [TS]

  does it feel like they're we haven't [TS]

  even talked about the wedding which is [TS]

  which is like cameo central of the the [TS]

  participate it's the it's the Troy Riker [TS]

  apparently that that that shave in the [TS]

  bathtub really did wonders for their [TS]

  relationship because they get married [TS]

  and thank God he grew the beard back can [TS]

  all agree on that i will say i actually [TS]

  like Captain Picard speech at the [TS]

  beginning it as a best man I enjoyed [TS]

  that city playing off all our knowledge [TS]

  of the TV series of the characters of [TS]

  like yeah the week because we know all [TS]

  these people so well right so yeah and I [TS]

  love [TS]

  Lupe's cameo 30 you know didn't he [TS]

  wasn't even there [TS]

  well we doesn't get a line no I scenes [TS]

  that the only two black characters [TS]

  sitting at a table together talking to [TS]

  each other like highlights helping their [TS]

  list this movie is yeah Jordy also I I [TS]

  thought it was really funny i'm in [TS]

  insurrection it seems like jewelry got [TS]

  healed but here he's got his content [TS]

  later they say he was says at one point [TS]

  insurrection is not sure if it will last [TS]

  or not [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah it was definitely for why [TS]

  don't we want a little less but no he's [TS]

  got his little context back there [TS]

  apparently according to an article I [TS]

  read the the director of this film [TS]

  couldn't remember [TS]

  levar Burton's character's name and [TS]

  thought he was an alien because he had [TS]

  the funny contact lens [TS]

  he also apparently according to [TS]

  wikimedia liver not did not watch a [TS]

  single episode of next generation and so [TS]

  bad [TS]

  which kind of show I think that's kind [TS]

  of the emblematic thing to take away [TS]

  from this is like if you don't watch a [TS]

  single episode of the show we wanted it [TS]

  to not feel like a TV I get the idea [TS]

  like we don't want to feel like an [TS]

  episode but it's just not well it feels [TS]

  like a completely disposable sci-fi [TS]

  action sci-fi action movie or mid budget [TS]

  sci fi action movie that's what it feels [TS]

  like a forgettable the only reason we're [TS]

  even talking about it now is because it [TS]

  was a star trek movie [TS]

  otherwise this would be a movie you [TS]

  would see on cable some time and be like [TS]

  did I see that but because it's a star [TS]

  trek movie we talk about it i did see it [TS]

  in the theater and unlike insurrection [TS]

  which I remembered several parts of I [TS]

  remembered very little about this movie [TS]

  really party and that seemed with data [TS]

  jumping over the rest of it was totally [TS]

  forgettable for me [TS]

  hello yeah I don't know to me I I think [TS]

  of this is you know something i think a [TS]

  lot with my job is about lighting and [TS]

  set design and cinematography and shot [TS]

  composition and I think like of all the [TS]

  the next generation movies just as far [TS]

  as being a beautiful film i think this [TS]

  is actually the apex of the the the TNG [TS]

  movies just just purely for having [TS]

  interesting shots in in in like a good [TS]

  color gradient like it it's something [TS]

  feels very dark and serious it's just a [TS]

  shame the script can't live up to the RT [TS]

  know it does look at that was Hollow [TS]

  that was part of why i didn't like it [TS]

  because it's it's pretty in such a grim [TS]

  dark way and there's nothing to hold it [TS]

  up that I actually liked the look of [TS]

  insurrection better simply because it [TS]

  was a better reflection of the the meat [TS]

  of the film [TS]

  I mean I i will all agree more with what [TS]

  Briana saying but i prefer first [TS]

  contacts look because i think it's more [TS]

  of the mysteries sort of the right [TS]

  balance of you know it's it's it's dark [TS]

  but not like bleak like this like this [TS]

  is the end in terms of like a budget [TS]

  since Jason mentioned i decided to go [TS]

  look up this one second remember and [TS]

  it's a yeah it's only two million more [TS]

  than insurrection so they day technology [TS]

  came a long way to yeah well it did [TS]

  because it was a she doesn't to that [TS]

  this is asking for years later and it [TS]

  looks a lot better [TS]

  it really does look a lot better yeah [TS]

  they also got digital domain to do it [TS]

  which was an actual like good effects [TS]

  house and not Santa Barbara Studios [TS]

  which is no longer in existence but it [TS]

  did the other weird and telling thing [TS]

  about this is that it had a 60 million [TS]

  dollar budget and its box office with 67 [TS]

  yeah and insurrection had 58 and it made [TS]

  a hundred twelve and that was considered [TS]

  a disappointment one know if you look if [TS]

  you look at the the adjusted by current [TS]

  dollars box office of Star Trek movies [TS]

  nemesis is the all-time flop of Star [TS]

  Trek movies is the last one and there's [TS]

  no that that's why it's the last one [TS]

  although it is funny to think about the [TS]

  fact that only six years later [TS]

  JJ Abrams reboot of the series it did [TS]

  for it seems like that was years it [TS]

  seems much 2000-2008 right there was a [TS]

  2009 okay seven years seven years it [TS]

  seems like a generation passed right [TS]

  track on TV at the time anyway I was a [TS]

  real desert right yeah that's true so [TS]

  true i don't know i think like I think [TS]

  one of the reasons this movie didn't do [TS]

  very well is you know it did [TS]

  complemented two years after [TS]

  insurrection and here's why today I was [TS]

  very glad to hear that episode of star [TS]

  star wars is being delayed for you know [TS]

  basically another year because i think [TS]

  it giving audiences a break and you're [TS]

  not have [TS]

  this there's a pattern they follow the [TS]

  video game industry called annual [TS]

  ization where you just keep putting [TS]

  stuff out because she was a paycheck and [TS]

  dependable paycheck I don't think that's [TS]

  a pattern the star trek movies can [TS]

  really follow you know what I mean like [TS]

  it just you kind of need a break so they [TS]

  can come back and you make a movie that [TS]

  speaks to the zeitgeist of what's going [TS]

  on [TS]

  yeah this was this was actually four [TS]

  years after insurrection well I said [TS]

  okay and interaction was only two years [TS]

  after first contact but that's the I [TS]

  think there was a perception that [TS]

  insurrection was such a letdown that [TS]

  they were going to take a break and they [TS]

  were coming to come back with nemesis [TS]

  and again hire a different director hire [TS]

  a different screen writer i remember the [TS]

  run-up to nemesis was like no no we [TS]

  gotta John Logan he did gladiator that [TS]

  was best picture this is going to be [TS]

  awesome it's a new I you know a new page [TS]

  for Star Trek and instead it was the [TS]

  last page four star track and yeah it is [TS]

  a yeah i don't know i mean i-i again I [TS]

  don't feel the rage for it other than [TS]

  show you said this on Twitter earlier [TS]

  today before we started recording I [TS]

  suppose if I was angry about nemesis for [TS]

  anything it's that it killed all [TS]

  prospects for Star Trek although at the [TS]

  same time when I see Rick Berman's [TS]

  credit for story on this I think nemesis [TS]

  maybe i kinda am NOT angry nemesis [TS]

  because nemesis the thing that got [TS]

  paramount to say hey you know what Rick [TS]

  Berman and all your people who worked on [TS]

  all those TV shows it's over [TS]

  you guys are you guys are done you kind [TS]

  of bankrupt creatively you've been [TS]

  working on this since next-generation [TS]

  started in 1987 it's been a long time [TS]

  we're done we're going to come back in a [TS]

  few years with you know something like [TS]

  JJ Abrams we're going to hire him and [TS]

  his people and we're going to do [TS]

  something completely fresh and I'd say [TS]

  good call because I feel like the Rick [TS]

  Berman era you know it went on too long [TS]

  and you know he clung to his power over [TS]

  that franchise for too long and it was [TS]

  kinda in the tank so maybe it's maybe [TS]

  it's all for the best that this thing [TS]

  blew up the franchise for a few years I [TS]

  I I don't know [TS]

  yeah i mean i will take one issue with [TS]

  but saying you know something fresh [TS]

  because we went back two characters from [TS]

  what it's true butBut what you just use [TS]

  wood [TS]

  just tell you that in the look and the [TS]

  feel of a JJ Abrams Star Trek movie is [TS]

  like so far advanced from what Star Trek [TS]

  nemesis brings to the table [TS]

  yeah but I mean filmmaking as it wasn't [TS]

  like it came out like a year after [TS]

  stirring you know that it things said [TS]

  things have progressed seven years later [TS]

  yeah but if Rick Berman had made another [TS]

  star trek movie in 2005 do you thought [TS]

  we want to progress by three words [TS]

  because everything is going to continue [TS]

  this downward trend a good idea i think [TS]

  that he had nothing left in him and that [TS]

  he didn't know it did or didn't want to [TS]

  acknowledge it because that this this [TS]

  just was just awful [TS]

  whatever his creative instincts were and [TS]

  getting Stewart Baird and whatever is [TS]

  creative instincts were in the story [TS]

  direction he was giving make it more [TS]

  like Star Trek to I like whatever [TS]

  whatever was happening there was all bad [TS]

  and he went back to the well too many [TS]

  times with with these ideas there it's a [TS]

  common criticism of some star trek [TS]

  voyager and enterprise episodes that [TS]

  they would go back and recycle things [TS]

  that you would have seen from the next [TS]

  generation it just sort of updating [TS]

  tweaking along the way and you'd be like [TS]

  I kind of feel like I saw the story [TS]

  already and you got some of that and he [TS]

  started getting that in the end films [TS]

  too and I just I don't think he he was [TS]

  he was he was a good choice to continue [TS]

  yeah you know whenever we talk about [TS]

  Star Trek movies it always comes back to [TS]

  affect the Star Trek's a TV franchise [TS]

  and one of the reasons that the these [TS]

  movies are bad some you know is because [TS]

  they become too much like a TV episode [TS]

  where they become you know too much like [TS]

  you just kind of relying on the existing [TS]

  relationships from TV and I think that's [TS]

  always a problem with surgery it's kind [TS]

  of a miracle that there are as many good [TS]

  star trek movies as they are in some [TS]

  ways because it really isn't a movie [TS]

  franchise it's just not it's TV it's [TS]

  about TV and that's why the CBS new show [TS]

  in 2017 is going to be much more of a [TS]

  make-or-break then the movie franchises [TS]

  I think can't wait to get away all the [TS]

  movies have such a fine fine line to [TS]

  walk because like you said yeah you [TS]

  can't be too much like it or you end up [TS]

  with insurrection but if you're too far [TS]

  away from the show in the characters [TS]

  that we know that that's a failure of a [TS]

  different kind of my god i know i guess [TS]

  we should be glad that we do have [TS]

  better actually good at all yeah and i [TS]

  will just say also the the to go along [TS]

  with what a both brain and jason said it [TS]

  it is a TV show and kind of I guess you [TS]

  could look at the downside of the [TS]

  success of the film's being that there [TS]

  hasn't been that TV show because it's [TS]

  been seven years since the 2009 reboot [TS]

  and we'll have had three movies by the [TS]

  time the third one comes out and that [TS]

  that's not very much Star Trek that's [TS]

  the entire run of the next generation or [TS]

  deep space nine when I wager so not not [TS]

  not enterprise the original series sorry [TS]

  guys but I did [TS]

  that's a lot of Star Trek you could have [TS]

  had a whole like series worth of stuff [TS]

  and so by the time beyond comes out like [TS]

  how many more of these JJ movies are [TS]

  there going to be are they going to get [TS]

  past four of them i don't know i hope [TS]

  not [TS]

  I it's just not what I love star trek [TS]

  through what I've engage everyone movies [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  no this is this is getting far field but [TS]

  I mean that that's the conversation that [TS]

  seems to be going on at Paramount about [TS]

  Star Trek now is maybe we should make it [TS]

  more like star wars and the Marvel [TS]

  movies where we open up as i said [TS]

  earlier open up to the broader universe [TS]

  and tell different stories in the star [TS]

  trek universe which i think a lot of [TS]

  fans could probably have told you that [TS]

  20 years ago but they seem to maybe be [TS]

  thinking in that direction now that the [TS]

  Star Wars or Star Trek has value like [TS]

  Star Wars and Marvel if they played like [TS]

  that instead of it just being a TV show [TS]

  replay or with JJ Abrams movies a replay [TS]

  of a TV show replay [TS]

  I don't know how you look at the [TS]

  examples of the the marvel vs and disney [TS]

  and and Lucasfilm and not think oh my [TS]

  gosh we have this property that's been [TS]

  spanning you know 50 years like we can't [TS]

  get anything with a hugely devoted [TS]

  fanbase like how can we not like [TS]

  capitalize on that there's a quote and [TS]

  again at their examples it's a it's a [TS]

  it's a studio person so who knows [TS]

  very ideas are probably bad but the idea [TS]

  what they said was what what if there [TS]

  are movies about Star Trek that are [TS]

  about you know about the space marines [TS]

  or about spies or things like that they [TS]

  were just throwing out some dumb ideas [TS]

  but you know I looked at that and [TS]

  thought yeah what about that what if you [TS]

  look for good stories you can tell [TS]

  around the star trek universe instead of [TS]

  just let's recycle some TV characters [TS]

  maybe that would be better for for your [TS]

  film franchise and where my audio a [TS]

  little bit of a quote from joss whedon [TS]

  when he was trying to do a celibacy [TS]

  animated series i believe he said [TS]

  something to be effective it was like I [TS]

  had these bags of money and nobody would [TS]

  take them from me yeah well if you've [TS]

  seen any of the stuff that they were [TS]

  planning for the buffy animated series [TS]

  it would have been spectacularly good he [TS]

  would have just it would have been great [TS]

  and and you're right there like we just [TS]

  didn't get it so it seems like nothing [TS]

  said nothing says success like success [TS]

  star wars and Marvel now people are [TS]

  listening to this idea of like we've got [TS]

  to get some franchise I mean what [TS]

  they're gonna do the GI Joe micronauts [TS]

  mom and ask franchise writing [TS]

  everybody's like turning over the couch [TS]

  cushions looking for franchise what [TS]

  they're doing mask [TS]

  yeah they're gonna do a linked all the [TS]

  toys you know I can't mask micronauts [TS]

  rom space Knight GI joe i think they're [TS]

  all interconnected than they're talking [TS]

  about there's a hole there are writers [TS]

  room transformer it's like really crazy [TS]

  it's gonna be terrible but the point is [TS]

  everybody's looking for franchises and [TS]

  and paramount is sitting there with a [TS]

  franchise so what are you doing [TS]

  paramount so well I mean I I think [TS]

  there's a lot to learn from you know the [TS]

  netflix Marvel movies and you know for [TS]

  me I know guardians of the galaxy [TS]

  probably has a lot of fans here but for [TS]

  me like what I love science fiction for [TS]

  is smaller stories that talk about like [TS]

  a heinlein novel is good because it says [TS]

  something really deep and important [TS]

  about human nature right is not always [TS]

  we've got to go save the galaxy and get [TS]

  this crystal right so i would love like [TS]

  my very favorite episodes of Star Trek [TS]

  are always smaller stories that really [TS]

  have their roots in what makes excellent [TS]

  science fiction and [TS]

  I just really hope that going forward [TS]

  like okay we've got like we tend towards [TS]

  extremes as humans and like the 2009 JJ [TS]

  Abrams Star Trek like find the loud [TS]

  exciting space adventure rooted in the [TS]

  sixties we've got that can we maybe take [TS]

  a step back and like look at the core of [TS]

  what makes star trek awesome again [TS]

  because I think I guess we're talking [TS]

  about these two movies that don't work [TS]

  there's a lot to really think about what [TS]

  the future of Star Trek care it's time [TS]

  for a reunion episode just like just one [TS]

  man I I actually you know the you know [TS]

  we talked about rage Joe the thing that [TS]

  maybe angriest about this movie is this [TS]

  is the last we see especially like [TS]

  patrick stewart is Picard it's like come [TS]

  on come on i would love to see he did he [TS]

  did the that at the x-men movie where he [TS]

  came back as Professor X again it makes [TS]

  me very sad that this is probably the [TS]

  last we see of Captain Picard and it's [TS]

  not in service of anything good and it's [TS]

  like patrick stewart you got him you got [TS]

  Patrick Stewart oh what a it's just it [TS]

  makes me sad yeah because I think it's [TS]

  important that that meta level of [TS]

  disappointment from beyond this film [TS]

  that you know this is the end this is [TS]

  the last time this this is the goodbye [TS]

  this is how it ends yeah and hang but [TS]

  with a yeah well you know what they say [TS]

  all good things haha [TS]

  Bravo that I can top that I just I just [TS]

  have so sad I i wanted i want at you [TS]

  through all the emotions here denial [TS]

  like I'm not saying this to anger you [TS]

  know depression you know it all ages [TS]

  cycles through every time i watch it [TS]

  because it's just like this is the end [TS]

  of the the cast that I grew up with [TS]

  their gone like no more from them like [TS]

  paramount would not ask them back [TS]

  I don't think necessarily would be a [TS]

  good idea to have them back but like [TS]

  it's definitely not happening so that [TS]

  that is the final note there and you can [TS]

  even be like oh well maybe you could say [TS]

  like oh the last movie is really [TS]

  insurrection because that was that was [TS]

  the the time before things went off the [TS]

  rails know that was a little off the [TS]

  rails to and then it's like what was the [TS]

  last really good star trek first contact [TS]

  and it's like a that's yeah it's have so [TS]

  much so much wrong with that kind of a [TS]

  assessment of this is scott what do you [TS]

  think so they said let's start the story [TS]

  with Romulans and kill them all and will [TS]

  introduce a stupid reasons for no [TS]

  particular reason that just annoys me to [TS]

  no end [TS]

  yeah but at least there are some Romulan [TS]

  warbirds at the end which look really [TS]

  cool so I don't like anyone show blown [TS]

  up in like two seconds to so that makes [TS]

  me angry but but the cars gonna have a [TS]

  drink with that the Romulan captain lady [TS]

  later [TS]

  that's right oh LOL the only drink one [TS]

  is legal thing should be illegal [TS]

  it just call it else yeah its tail in [TS]

  romulus that's this is how it is [TS]

  yeah well what do you say it's but it's [TS]

  maybe maybe that CBS Star Trek series [TS]

  will have a cameo from like old Captain [TS]

  Picard or something wouldn't that be [TS]

  nice [TS]

  although actually i will say fans of the [TS]

  next generation might be interested to [TS]

  find out that in the comic book [TS]

  adaptation of the j original JJ Abrams [TS]

  Star Trek movie there is a lengthy a [TS]

  lengthy like side story where they [TS]

  explain how Spock I went back in time [TS]

  and it's basically Picard and Georgie [TS]

  help him get the spaceship that he [TS]

  pilots back in time and I always thought [TS]

  that was kind of great as like the next [TS]

  generation tie into the JJ Abrams Star [TS]

  Trek that card and Georgie in the future [TS]

  and data i think is involved too because [TS]

  it's just assumed data is back [TS]

  we're not even talk about it no he has [TS]

  five and they and and I always thought [TS]

  that was really clever and I know they [TS]

  could never do that in the movie but I [TS]

  loved that in the in the comic book that [TS]

  they made an effort to bring in the next [TS]

  generation characters and tie them in [TS]

  with spot going back in time because [TS]

  they knew they knew that we cared about [TS]

  those characters and they and they put [TS]

  them in there i thought that was a nice [TS]

  gesture but that's that so that's what I [TS]

  hold on to Joe is like habit Spock I bet [TS]

  he had some help from our friends in the [TS]

  future and that's all that's all i got [TS]

  was that stuff doesn't count right I [TS]

  know it doesn't it doesn't count but [TS]

  when i watch the star trek [TS]

  James movie that's what i'm thinking is [TS]

  Spock with the help of our friends went [TS]

  back in time please accept my headcanon [TS]

  Jason I will accept your Thank You Erica [TS]

  that's what i was looking for all right [TS]

  well you know there are better Star Trek [TS]

  movies than these but these were the [TS]

  ones we talked about so I want to I want [TS]

  to wrap it up but thank my guests for [TS]

  for soldiering on and watching these two [TS]

  the the final two nails in the coffin of [TS]

  Star Trek The Next Generation with me [TS]

  Dan Morgan thank you for being here [TS]

  among the many Star Trek movies Jason [TS]

  these were two of these were indeed two [TS]

  accounts to Erica and sign thank you i'm [TS]

  just depressed now haha oh yeah yeah [TS]

  Scott McNulty thank you i don't know how [TS]

  old spot is 0 so I think there's been [TS]

  many salads many spots they can't even [TS]

  agree on a gender is just keep telling [TS]

  you didn't hold with the the spot keeps [TS]

  dying and they just by date a new cat [TS]

  because they don't want to explain to [TS]

  everybody i think that's it i think [TS]

  that's exactly it [TS]

  they just like the memory angry i'm out [TS]

  about the whole night haha nice but Joe [TS]

  Rosen still thank you by Cyrus a joke [TS]

  that was it that was it the lipids let's [TS]

  all raise our glass of chateaux Picard [TS]

  to joe's memory and Brianna Wu thank you [TS]

  as long as you remember star trek to [TS]

  star trek is not really dead but yeah [TS]

  that's fair enough fair enough i'm going [TS]

  to clutch my star trek I may actually go [TS]

  back and watch star trek to its star [TS]

  trek first contact again just to just to [TS]

  cleanse the palate a little bit [TS]

  well thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

  watching wee-wee again we do 80 episodes [TS]

  in a row about Star Wars and I feel like [TS]

  we've got to do some Star Trek because [TS]

  this is the podcast people know it as we [TS]

  talk about Star Wars Star Trek fan I [TS]

  don't know how it happened [TS]

  we talked about star's light so I'm glad [TS]

  that we got to spend a little time [TS]

  talking about Star Trek even if it was [TS]

  bad star track [TS]

  after all we get a lot of episodes about [TS]

  that star wars movies him I hate all [TS]

  right yeah so thanks to everybody for [TS]

  listening and I hope you didn't watch [TS]

  these movies or listen to this episode [TS]

  affected we all apologize [TS]

  we'll see you next week hopefully have [TS]

  something that is not as terrible as [TS]

  these students [TS]

  [Music] [TS]