The Incomparable

291: I Like Complicated Books, Glenn

 

  being comfortable is brought to you by [TS]

  IT pro TV enhance your technology [TS]

  aptitude with IT pro TV the resource to [TS]

  keep your IT skills up to date with [TS]

  engaging and informative video tutorials [TS]

  for a free 7-day trial and thirty [TS]

  percent off the lifetime of your account [TS]

  go to IT pro dot TV / Snell and use the [TS]

  code smell the entire purple number 291 [TS]

  March 2060 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable podcast i convened this [TS]

  edition of our book club book club is [TS]

  back [TS]

  yeah and we read to recently published [TS]

  in the last year novels of science [TS]

  fictional description and origin it is [TS]

  we're going to be talking about Aurora [TS]

  by Kim Stanley Robinson and Luna new [TS]

  moon by ian MacDonald and joining me to [TS]

  discuss these two novels are a wonderful [TS]

  panel of four people who have read at [TS]

  least as far in all both of these novels [TS]

  as they could until it broke them and [TS]

  then possibly can press away [TS]

  it happens allene sims Welcome Table [TS]

  club i scammed [TS]

  yeah you were skimming that's ok that's [TS]

  ok i was i was will this will come up in [TS]

  the water we reading segment at the end [TS]

  but I was broken by a book that is not [TS]

  one of these two books and Scott was [TS]

  very kind in our slack chat and said [TS]

  Jason you don't have to keep reading [TS]

  very kind and so I didn't listen I'm [TS]

  gonna do a nebula award in which case [TS]

  I'm gonna have to deal with that was the [TS]

  question is now I might have to go back [TS]

  to it because I got nominated for a [TS]

  nebula work and we will get there Scotty [TS]

  melty of course he reads everything hi [TS]

  Scott [TS]

  hello you're not a scammer I am NOT a [TS]

  skimmer i read these books many months [TS]

  ago though so it may seem like a skim [TS]

  yeah yeah I read them I finished them [TS]

  about a month ago so I to perhaps have [TS]

  have don't like no memory of them but [TS]

  that's ok we will remember as we go glen [TS]

  Fleischman is also here [TS]

  hello hello I gave these books intensive [TS]

  attention good at least one of us good [TS]

  and Erica and sign also read did the [TS]

  reading you did the reading right i did [TS]

  there was I did a little bit of skimming [TS]

  at the end of one of them but mostly I [TS]

  was I was fully paying attention ish so [TS]

  I against weekend that not other so [TS]

  iíve read I've read four novels in the [TS]

  last month and and I know it's madness [TS]

  but what I what I found is iíve [TS]

  actually read three all the way through [TS]

  while trying to get through that fourth [TS]

  and I told my wife is the other day that [TS]

  you know when I when I really struggling [TS]

  to get through a book i probably should [TS]

  recognize that it's not me it's the book [TS]

  because then I switch [TS]

  to a different book and and I switch to [TS]

  these two books in fact knowing that I i [TS]

  was gonna do this podcast and I i read [TS]

  through them very quickly and that other [TS]

  book i still haven't finished I'm so [TS]

  like fifty percent of the way through it [TS]

  so i think that i think that is [TS]

  interesting that you can tell whether a [TS]

  book is working for you because either [TS]

  pulls you along and you've got to read [TS]

  the more of the book you're like oh man [TS]

  I guess that's the book i'm reading i [TS]

  guess i need to read more than when I [TS]

  tell Jason might be on a podcast about [TS]

  that and sound familiar [TS]

  I left Achilles start alphabetically [TS]

  because we have no other real way to [TS]

  order these books were going to talk [TS]

  about Aurora by kids [TS]

  Kim Stanley Robinson Kim Stanley [TS]

  Robinson is famous for writing [TS]

  especially the Mars trilogy red mars [TS]

  green Mars blue Mars he got a lot of [TS]

  nominations for awards and won the [TS]

  nebula award for 2312 a previous novel [TS]

  that we discussed in a previous book [TS]

  club and I hated that book as did other [TS]

  people like Glenn I hated that but [TS]

  number two already essay about how I [TS]

  thought I was losing my mind reading [TS]

  that book because I love Kim Stanley [TS]

  Robinson work very much read the whole [TS]

  Mars trilogy because short stories got [TS]

  published books on the shelf and I [TS]

  picked it up and I was mystified by its [TS]

  but I did agree to read at work very [TS]

  curious me too me too so aurora aurora [TS]

  is a we're gonna we're gonna fire off [TS]

  the spoiler horn in a moment and you and [TS]

  you can look at the show notes if you [TS]

  want to know or skip to the next chapter [TS]

  or something if you want to skip to the [TS]

  next book if you haven't read or and no [TS]

  one here is talking about Aurora in [TS]

  short is about a Generation ship it's [TS]

  about a spaceship that is traveling from [TS]

  Earth to a planet around or a couple of [TS]

  planets as possible destinations around [TS]

  the start how city they have been [TS]

  they've been traveling for a hundred [TS]

  sixty years and seven generations and [TS]

  they're getting close to their [TS]

  destination so it's the story of the [TS]

  kind of end of the journey ? of the [TS]

  Generation ship that has reached this at [TS]

  this far-off solar system that they may [TS]

  colonize and then the fun begins [TS]

  so that's the story [TS]

  fun let's fire off the spoiler horn now [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  spoiler alert fun does not happen and [TS]

  then the fun ends rapidly because well [TS]

  no there's there's there's fun because [TS]

  there's a now I'm I what can I start [TS]

  because I wipe I have something positive [TS]

  to say and ready to get out [TS]

  listen let's get that letter to be [TS]

  unpleasant fun and positive positivity [TS]

  out of the way early [TS]

  um I and I will I will do this without [TS]

  spoiling the other book too but I [TS]

  started reading them both at the same [TS]

  time kind of i would read what kind of a [TS]

  bit of one and then chapter the other [TS]

  and then just go back and forth and at [TS]

  first [TS]

  aurora was the one that I wanted to go [TS]

  back to and continue reading because [TS]

  you're it's the beginning of a quest [TS]

  basically you know it's a space dirty so [TS]

  yeah I was interested in that aspect of [TS]

  it and I liked at first I like the way [TS]

  the book was doing the world building [TS]

  because it's you know laying out the [TS]

  daily routine on a generational [TS]

  spaceship establishing all the inherent [TS]

  risks and challenges to that kind of [TS]

  undertaking at that time I didn't [TS]

  realize that that is all the book was so [TS]

  so I was pretty happy with it at first [TS]

  and i was finding myself dreading going [TS]

  back to the other book when I would go [TS]

  back and forth and then that changed but [TS]

  i'll let somebody else come first before [TS]

  i start dumping on it [TS]

  yeah I learned a lot about myself and [TS]

  the process of writing this good [TS]

  Wow journey of self-discovery is one [TS]

  year sometimes you have to go to another [TS]

  solar system [TS]

  what about yourself so what i learned i [TS]

  think is that hard science books are not [TS]

  for me [TS]

  no wonder for us and know that that's [TS]

  not you haven't told that's not what i [TS]

  learned and that little tell you want to [TS]

  learn really tired yeah yeah yeah you [TS]

  should serve first and then going to [TS]

  explain why why I'm not true yeah and so [TS]

  this is something I should have probably [TS]

  known about myself doing some of the [TS]

  things i do like having a podcast where [TS]

  I interview people and you know talking [TS]

  about firefly where I'm like it's not [TS]

  about the fact that there's like Cowboys [TS]

  in space it's about the people in their [TS]

  relationship i like learning about [TS]

  people and this is not the book where [TS]

  you learn about people [TS]

  no this is a book where lean skimmed [TS]

  over a lot of statistically things that [TS]

  she didn't care about so the parts of [TS]

  the book that kind of concentrated on [TS]

  you know in the beginning you know Freya [TS]

  goes on this journey wandering the ship [TS]

  i liked those parts i liked learning [TS]

  about the people and how this all fits [TS]

  together in the world building i liked [TS]

  that a lot of shippers got modules that [TS]

  are based on different eco eco systems [TS]

  different biomes basically with [TS]

  different cultures and that's a way they [TS]

  maintain not only the diversity of like [TS]

  the plants and animals that are going to [TS]

  use to colonize but also the cultures of [TS]

  Earth sort of as they go and then she [TS]

  takes a oh she wanders through the ship [TS]

  and we see the whole ship as a part of [TS]

  my journey right yeah and I loved that [TS]

  and then I loved the conceit you know [TS]

  I'm in the beginning we learned that our [TS]

  narrator is the computer computer system [TS]

  i guess and i thought that was really [TS]

  cool and we kind of warned how the [TS]

  computer learned how to tell stories and [TS]

  I was like oh this is really really [TS]

  interesting i liked that a lot [TS]

  and then I skimmed the last fifty [TS]

  percent well I think I i think it would [TS]

  be accurate to say that the novel takes [TS]

  a u-turn in the middle and we will get [TS]

  there glendy of it an opening uh no I [TS]

  don't want to contradict anything [TS]

  italian said I just want at all don't [TS]

  contractor was not a hard science [TS]

  fiction novel but not all exactly thanks [TS]

  for what I wanted I could distinguish [TS]

  this distinction between this which I [TS]

  called like hard radiation of space and [TS]

  vacuum science where you're just [TS]

  completely exposed that any shielding of [TS]

  any kind to the onslaught of endless [TS]

  bits of trivia information and ideas [TS]

  which 2312 have to say was even worse in [TS]

  that regard you know there was a [TS]

  stronger characterizations in 2312 i [TS]

  would say then there's a lot more [TS]

  dialogue because they were awful people [TS]

  they were awful people it but it was [TS]

  full of like just lists of things it was [TS]

  his Moby Dick this book I found a very [TS]

  interesting exercise and I want to talk [TS]

  about I want some help actually teasing [TS]

  apart aspects of X I'm still trying to [TS]

  figure out sort of what overlapping [TS]

  areas for being told [TS]

  but I [TS]

  it was at some level I feel like it was [TS]

  a perfection of 2012 that it was it was [TS]

  like reworking that book into something [TS]

  that people more people might find [TS]

  readable but the same thing he just took [TS]

  away all that shielding like the whole [TS]

  bit about you know the book is full of [TS]

  details about being exposed to radiation [TS]

  and all that you know random particles [TS]

  in space and so forth and I feel like [TS]

  this is that kind of heart it's like no [TS]

  no you have to first get Eileen first to [TS]

  go back to school and get two PhDs damn [TS]

  come back to read this book and you'll [TS]

  be fine until then had that warning [TS]

  about on the inside discovery requires [TS]

  blue having advanced physics degree I i [TS]

  agree that with Glenn that it's it's not [TS]

  so much that it was you know it wasn't [TS]

  certainly wasn't poorly written [TS]

  I just based on those first couple [TS]

  chapters I think I expected that [TS]

  description stuff would happen in the [TS]

  first couple chapters and then we would [TS]

  get on with the space adventuring and [TS]

  learning to love or at least like some [TS]

  of the characters and and I didn't [TS]

  really care all that much for the part [TS]

  with Freya going on her journey but at [TS]

  least it was something what's kind of [TS]

  happening with a person but the [TS]

  characters to meet the characters and [TS]

  what they were doing felt almost [TS]

  entirely incidental to the world that [TS]

  was created and the science of any and [TS]

  you know sometimes on the other hand you [TS]

  have a book that's so tunnel vision [TS]

  focused on the characters in the plot [TS]

  that you end up with giant gaping holes [TS]

  in the world you can't see how anything [TS]

  beyond those few characters in their [TS]

  story work and I think this book is [TS]

  100-percent the opposite of that it's so [TS]

  totally focused on the science of the [TS]

  journey and the mathematics of space and [TS]

  planetary bodies and radiation that it [TS]

  leaves those holes their emotional holes [TS]

  where I expected the characters and the [TS]

  story to be but that's that's a taste [TS]

  thing so i'm i'm willing to cut book [TS]

  slack when they forget the world [TS]

  building is if they're focusing on the [TS]

  characters too much I I you know some [TS]

  people don't feel that way so if you're [TS]

  one of those people that hates that [TS]

  maybe you prefer the opposite and I was [TS]

  like this book float a theory that just [TS]

  came to me after we discuss this way is [TS]

  here's a theory that were supposed to [TS]

  perceive the book like you read through [TS]

  the whole thing and then you're supposed [TS]

  to perceive the book like a hole where [TS]

  you realize the entire book is being [TS]

  written by the AI including the part [TS]

  before [TS]

  yeah is writing it and the part after [TS]

  the a is ostensibly destroyed they were [TS]

  supposed to press [TS]

  leave it as readers when we've completed [TS]

  and go ah this entire thing is a [TS]

  constructed narrative by the AI and the [TS]

  AI is not a reliable narrator [TS]

  necessarily despite the amount of detail [TS]

  because it doesn't know how to tell the [TS]

  story but at the point at which it is [TS]

  ostensibly destroyed [TS]

  it's not and we're reading a [TS]

  continuation where it's become a better [TS]

  storyteller but the depersonalization [TS]

  the lack of personality the lack of [TS]

  characters is a function of the AIS [TS]

  inability to actually tell a story that [TS]

  we find satisfying that's a [TS]

  meta-narrative I'll why I don't have guy [TS]

  except that but it's a fascinating [TS]

  theory i don't think i won't quite that [TS]

  deep i just i thought it was a perfect [TS]

  conceit that it was the computer that [TS]

  was telling the story and sort of [TS]

  learning how to be more human as it went [TS]

  because i felt like it was computer that [TS]

  didn't understand what it means to be [TS]

  human that was telling me the story but [TS]

  you can tell the story before it starts [TS]

  telling the story we reported the book [TS]

  in which starting story and we're [TS]

  putting the book when ostensibly ends my [TS]

  contention is maybe ksr was trying to [TS]

  tell us that there is no point before it [TS]

  tells a story or point at which it's [TS]

  it's dead [TS]

  I don't know it so it's our reading and [TS]

  I don't know if it's if he tries to be [TS]

  very clever and that might be the [TS]

  cleverness that we're supposed to see or [TS]

  not or not it still has to work as a [TS]

  story even if you're telling a [TS]

  meta-narrative the stories to us to work [TS]

  you can't just be satisfied because [TS]

  there's some kind of overriding [TS]

  structure that we're supposed to love [TS]

  you know it's also a toast or somebody [TS]

  could be i'm just not that somebody not [TS]

  Scott not somebody tell me no mae [TS]

  somebody so I picked both of these books [TS]

  because i really liked both of them are [TS]

  so spoiler alert i enjoyed this so [TS]

  greatly I so part of the reason i think [TS]

  that he wrote this book it and that [TS]

  makes it so interesting to me is that he [TS]

  has long been on the record that [TS]

  thinking that generation ships won't [TS]

  work [TS]

  interstellar travel is very difficult [TS]

  and that we should probably just stay on [TS]

  earth because it seems like a giant [TS]

  waste of effort to send humans off two [TS]

  planets where God knows what will happen [TS]

  and that we're doomed to fail and that's [TS]

  what this book is all about right it's [TS]

  an interesting story in which are or not [TS]

  so interested depending on here your [TS]

  your your opinion admission this is [TS]

  great [TS]

  pinnacle of human achievement utterly [TS]

  and completely fails and comes back to a [TS]

  world that basically rejects their [TS]

  failure because they are like why the [TS]

  hell did you come all the way back when [TS]

  we sent you after 300 yes good question [TS]

  exactly I know Jason that's one of your [TS]

  biggest problems with the book is that [TS]

  you think they could have tried [TS]

  something else [TS]

  yup but I feel like that speaks to human [TS]

  nature and that you kind of freaked out [TS]

  when you seem to have this instrumental [TS]

  problem and the solution which is also [TS]

  nearly insurmountable but you know is [TS]

  solvable because you did in fact travel [TS]

  that far already is to go back where you [TS]

  came from where you know there's a safe [TS]

  place for you to go even though the [TS]

  journey will be very difficult and [TS]

  that's kinda Freya trying to be like her [TS]

  mother who was able to get them you know [TS]

  her whole point was to get them the last [TS]

  leg of the trip to their home which of [TS]

  course tries to kill them all [TS]

  yeah it does kill some of them and so [TS]

  she has the not a reincarnation but [TS]

  trying to finish her mother's mission in [TS]

  getting the rest of them back to an [TS]

  actual home that will support them and [TS]

  then when they get there obviously it's [TS]

  not so great and then I also think it's [TS]

  interesting this whole day i think is [TS]

  very interesting about learning how to [TS]

  do metaphors i also think it's he plays [TS]

  with the Generation ship trope about you [TS]

  know people live on for so long so they [TS]

  forget about things like there are [TS]

  microphones and cameras everywhere so [TS]

  the ship knows everything that they're [TS]

  doing even though they don't think that [TS]

  does and so there are people who are [TS]

  like sneaking around seemingly trying to [TS]

  hide from the ship the ship is watching [TS]

  the entire time and it is really care [TS]

  about what it's just what they're doing [TS]

  so I just found it very interesting i [TS]

  can't i do understand if you're looking [TS]

  for deep characterization and [TS]

  relationships [TS]

  this is not the book for you i enjoyed [TS]

  those parts to I just kind of wanted [TS]

  more of those unless of the pages and [TS]

  pages and pages of monologue [TS]

  I don't know a computer monologue could [TS]

  hear Donald yeah like it was all those [TS]

  things Scott were all really really [TS]

  interesting and then there are pages and [TS]

  pages of stuff that could have been [TS]

  condensed into three sentences and I [TS]

  would've been just as happy [TS]

  but that's the whole point uh I think [TS]

  that what he's trying to do whether it's [TS]

  successful or not ready to show you that [TS]

  this computer is generating at least [TS]

  part of this story and this is that so [TS]

  it's not enjoyable to read parts of [TS]

  stories that are written by the computer [TS]

  especially as it's trying to learn how [TS]

  to tell a story right now that is of [TS]

  course when you write it down if the [TS]

  paper you think maybe you should write a [TS]

  book in which large portions of it are [TS]

  unreadable exactly in 2312 maybe you [TS]

  should write a book where the main [TS]

  character is absolutely reprehensible [TS]

  profits both of those books work from he [TS]

  so what do I know [TS]

  yeah i agree that it's it's it was it [TS]

  was well written that the stuff that was [TS]

  there and the ideas were cool like that [TS]

  was that was the thing that you know if [TS]

  somebody just told me about this book i [TS]

  think i would've been like yeah that [TS]

  sounds awesome but it was it was the [TS]

  pages and pages like like a lien said [TS]

  and the fact that even when it wasn't [TS]

  the pages of sciency stuff even when [TS]

  they were talking about the people and [TS]

  what was happening [TS]

  it really felt like I feel like reading [TS]

  a history textbook and I've it was like [TS]

  it would flip back and forth between [TS]

  reading history textbook in a science [TS]

  textbook and it in a mathematical [TS]

  textbook actually and I never really [TS]

  liked any of those things so that was [TS]

  those where it fell down for me [TS]

  let's take a break for me to tell you [TS]

  about one of our sponsors it is IT pro [TS]

  TV if you've got a career plan you want [TS]

  to set in motion maybe you're looking to [TS]

  start a career in information technology [TS]

  or maybe you're already working in the [TS]

  field but certificates and credentials [TS]

  are key point in getting a job or [TS]

  promotion and IT pro TVs mission is [TS]

  education through engagement they've got [TS]

  up-to-date high quality video content [TS]

  and access to the most important tools [TS]

  you will need to get your technology [TS]

  certification they got more than a [TS]

  thousand hours of content and they're [TS]

  adding 50 hours every single week [TS]

  courses a stream live and on demand [TS]

  worldwide to chromecast roku PC iOS [TS]

  Android and now the Amazon fire TV and [TS]

  the fourth generation Apple TV so you [TS]

  can learn on the go or sitting on your [TS]

  couch watching on TV [TS]

  well however you want it you can get the [TS]

  information you seek on IT pro TV course [TS]

  topics [TS]

  these are great course topics [TS]

  if you want to upgrade your Apple [TS]

  related skills there's mac integration [TS]

  basics [TS]

  there's an apple certified support [TS]

  professional course Apple certified [TS]

  technical coordinator amazon web [TS]

  services microsoft technology [TS]

  certification Google Apps for work [TS]

  administrator virtualization [TS]

  cryptography a whole lot more all the [TS]

  courses are transcribed so you can watch [TS]

  watch from start to finish or jump to [TS]

  just the part that you're looking for [TS]

  and there's one low monthly subscription [TS]

  price and a no-hassle cancellation [TS]

  policy you're studying with a book or [TS]

  enrolled in a certification or technical [TS]

  degree program this is a great [TS]

  supplement so you can learn at your own [TS]

  pace and track your progress and it's [TS]

  much cheaper than going to a bootcamp [TS]

  you're working IT professional this is [TS]

  the ongoing resource you need to keep [TS]

  your skills current there's corporate [TS]

  group pricing also available clients of [TS]

  IT pro TV include harvard-mit UCSD [TS]

  Stanford and more so check out IT pro [TS]

  dot TV / smell to upgrade your brain [TS]

  with the most popular IT certification [TS]

  and normally premium subscriptions are [TS]

  about fifty seven dollars a month or 570 [TS]

  dollars a year but there is a special [TS]

  offer you can try it for free for seven [TS]

  days when you sign up using code smell [TS]

  to check out the courses the live stream [TS]

  and a whole lot more [TS]

  you also get thirty percent off the [TS]

  lifetime of your account IT pro TV so [TS]

  then you'll spend less than forty [TS]

  dollars a month for 399 for an entire [TS]

  year and mark your calendar the ccnp [TS]

  security courses will stream live for [TS]

  the very first time beginning of march [TS]

  21st IT pro TV / Nell use code smell [TS]

  try it free for seven days and safe [TS]

  thirty percent off for the lifetime of [TS]

  your account thank you to IT pro TV for [TS]

  sponsoring being comfortable this is the [TS]

  definition of a picturesque story and I [TS]

  you know this is something I back in [TS]

  high school when someone is like what [TS]

  its picturesque we will talk about this [TS]

  as opposed to narrative in a picturesque [TS]

  is when your thing happens thing happens [TS]

  thing happens thing happens and the end [TS]

  and it's a huge critique of criticism of [TS]

  a novel when its picturesque because it [TS]

  means there's no arc there's no [TS]

  development there's no you know multiple [TS]

  storylines that converge or whatever and [TS]

  I feel like at some level [TS]

  this has so many different narrative [TS]

  ideas going on that it but it winds up [TS]

  being picker asking it's like they go [TS]

  out they go to a planet things happen [TS]

  the planet decided at work they come [TS]

  back and they're a journey occurs but [TS]

  there's any development occurred we see [TS]

  any advancement the characters that we [TS]

  learned something [TS]

  ostensibly were supposed to come away [TS]

  the [TS]

  going like wow generation ships are bad [TS]

  and most diverse is either totally dead [TS]

  in a way we can do anything with or it's [TS]

  already full of life that we can't do [TS]

  anything with so stay at home folks and [TS]

  fix the earth you know and that's a [TS]

  that's a kind of heavy-handed you know [TS]

  message but I just feel like it didn't [TS]

  it wasn't a drift it's just it was I [TS]

  mean within the story we have picaresque [TS]

  because she's going from place to place [TS]

  to place with no extensible reason we [TS]

  have a picturesque within a picturesque [TS]

  as well I you know I i we said before I [TS]

  think this is a better book than his [TS]

  last book i think one of the reasons is [TS]

  that the main the main character Freya [TS]

  is a is not as unlikable as the main [TS]

  characters in 2012 but i don't actually [TS]

  like her i have a lot of problems with [TS]

  her i think i think one of the [TS]

  fascinating I think this book is [TS]

  fascinating [TS]

  I i enjoyed reading it it frustrated me [TS]

  at every turn and yet it was it was more [TS]

  like me saying you know to the to the [TS]

  author basically we know why did you [TS]

  make this decision [TS]

  did you know you were making this [TS]

  decision are you doing this to mess with [TS]

  me is that what you're doing because [TS]

  let's let's take them off the most [TS]

  interesting character in this book is [TS]

  phrase mother who dies and the entire [TS]

  rest of the book really a sort of afraid [TS]

  of failing to live up to her mother [TS]

  that's an interesting creative decision [TS]

  right and I i think there's a civil war [TS]

  at one point because people are arguing [TS]

  when they go to when they go to a study [TS]

  to find that there is this first planet [TS]

  it's brutal there's wind I i really like [TS]

  that i like his eyes just almost [TS]

  despondency about we know he's basically [TS]

  arguing there aren't habitable planets [TS]

  out there especially not in a small [TS]

  sample size near our solar system [TS]

  you're not going to find habitable [TS]

  planets you're gonna think they're in a [TS]

  habitable zone you're going to go there [TS]

  you're going to find that there are [TS]

  reasons why you can't live there so [TS]

  there's the windy planet it's cold it's [TS]

  windy and then it turns out they're [TS]

  basically prion there that kill [TS]

  everybody it's not life per se but it's [TS]

  a thing that is contaminated [TS]

  it's a different biosystem it kills them [TS]

  and then the other alternative is [TS]

  something that's basically like Mars [TS]

  it's cold and miserable and some people [TS]

  want to go there and they send them [TS]

  there we never hear from them again the [TS]

  assumption is that they just all died [TS]

  so they have the Civil War about what to [TS]

  do whether it's to colonize the the [TS]

  mars-like place or go on to another star [TS]

  system that's further off or turn around [TS]

  and go back to earth and and the poor [TS]

  one of the problems I had and again I [TS]

  don't think this was intentional on the [TS]

  on the writers part is i sided with the [TS]

  people who are main characters opposed [TS]

  the entire time i thought the main [TS]

  characters were completely wrong and [TS]

  that their arguments were stupid and [TS]

  that was a problem because basically [TS]

  that place me against it's me against [TS]

  the book because my and again it's smart [TS]

  and it's interesting in the sense that [TS]

  he's basically saying what if the people [TS]

  you send that the descendants of the [TS]

  people you send out on a Generation ship [TS]

  don't want to be there that's [TS]

  essentially what this this book is is [TS]

  they don't want to be there they didn't [TS]

  sign up for this and they just want to [TS]

  go back to earth and my thought was yep [TS]

  guys you know there's a lot of people on [TS]

  earth you're you're already out among [TS]

  the stars just keep going maybe you'll [TS]

  find something and and there's a there's [TS]

  a passage that i thought was really [TS]

  interesting where they say they sent out [TS]

  a bunch of these generation ships for [TS]

  all we know everybody on all of them [TS]

  died and if you're sitting back on earth [TS]

  your thought is well you know we tried [TS]

  but if you're on one of the ships feel [TS]

  like I don't wanna die i wanna i want to [TS]

  live I want to find a place to live so [TS]

  this is what you get is is is this [TS]

  response it just bugs me because i don't [TS]

  agree with that i felt like they should [TS]

  have either tried to they're all that [TS]

  way they should either keep going or [TS]

  they should try their hand at something [TS]

  but to just come back to earth and [TS]

  filled it felt like such a letdown and [TS]

  then the part where we're really [TS]

  bothered me was that when they like then [TS]

  they watch some TV and discover that [TS]

  there's suspension technology has been [TS]

  invented which is just a cheat to get [TS]

  the characters we've been following back [TS]

  to earth themselves instead of it being [TS]

  their descendants and that felt like a [TS]

  like just a ripoff [TS]

  let me hit that's the point to this the [TS]

  decision point comes almost a little [TS]

  middle of the book was exactly halfway [TS]

  through the u-turn [TS]

  yeah and i'm reading a book and I'll [TS]

  tell you like to start with the book and [TS]

  it's got one narrative agent right it's [TS]

  got your sort of a sort of a super [TS]

  observer it's focused on devi and as a [TS]

  team and friday and so you sort of know [TS]

  what's going on the right and and then [TS]

  it shifts [TS]

  you see the ship takes over the aeration [TS]

  because daddy's gonna die and it's you [TS]

  know try to graph to us the ship takes [TS]

  over the narration and I tell you like [TS]

  what got me through the first half of [TS]

  this book was I had this anticipation i [TS]

  felt he built a really good anticipation [TS]

  that something was going to happen [TS]

  they're gonna arrive at the planet [TS]

  something happened so its building [TS]

  building building the narrative changes [TS]

  and that's kind of interesting i like [TS]

  seeing the aisource boot up its ability [TS]

  to tell a story and fail and retry and [TS]

  devi dies all you know Moses never sees [TS]

  the promised land and so forth [TS]

  it's all great and it builds and builds [TS]

  building and then here's the part that I [TS]

  just going to say I adored the pivot [TS]

  point in the book and i'm looking on the [TS]

  kindle it's exactly forty-eight percent [TS]

  rate almost right halfway about it says [TS]

  you know the ship is making this whole [TS]

  statement about all the Civil War that's [TS]

  happening when everyone is not like I [TS]

  like that I like that at some point in [TS]

  the civil war that the AI basically says [TS]

  alright everybody go to neutral corners [TS]

  I'm in charge now I'm not gonna let [TS]

  yourselves [TS]

  yeah ships decided to intervene which is [TS]

  to say if so factor we intervened it [TS]

  shifts from a third-person to a second [TS]

  person or a first-person plural [TS]

  yeah at that moment ah we've hit he's [TS]

  brilliantly build up all this tension [TS]

  and now we're in the story the first [TS]

  fifty percent was prolonged what's gonna [TS]

  happen and I didn't feel it paid off [TS]

  thats that was my disappointment [TS]

  actually yeah it was kind of like we we [TS]

  got the climax in the middle of the book [TS]

  and then it was falling action from [TS]

  there on in yeah yeah i think part of [TS]

  part of it is my disappointment was not [TS]

  knowing what to expect from this book [TS]

  you know I am a sucker for stories where [TS]

  people are far away and under pressure [TS]

  and are trying to find a way to live on [TS]

  you know to explore and to live on a new [TS]

  world and so when they went down to the [TS]

  Windy planet and I thought oh well this [TS]

  could be bad but maybe you know is this [TS]

  the rest of the book it turns out know [TS]

  everybody dies 641 and and it's and it's [TS]

  sad and all that night I go I get what [TS]

  he's trying to do and so I I'm you know [TS]

  my perception of the rest of the book [TS]

  was colored by that oh no it's not gonna [TS]

  be about what happens when they get [TS]

  there and they're all on their own and [TS]

  they stay there these kind of grizzled [TS]

  you know people from this breaking down [TS]

  technology on the spaceship and that now [TS]

  they have to find make their way on a [TS]

  planet again and they never lived on a [TS]

  planet before and I thought well that [TS]

  might be an interesting book but that's [TS]

  not this book that this book goes back [TS]

  up and you know I'd i really like the [TS]

  the [TS]

  hey I being the sheriff and saying look [TS]

  I'm not in charge but I'm not gonna let [TS]

  you hurt each other [TS]

  you're gonna have to behave and and that [TS]

  was good in the end though [TS]

  basically you know they turn around they [TS]

  leave the people behind on the on the [TS]

  Mars analog they turn around and they [TS]

  will they invented technology that [TS]

  they've received by radio basically by [TS]

  laser from Earth that lets them live in [TS]

  suspended animation and go all the way [TS]

  back without having to you know generate [TS]

  new characters which you know it was [TS]

  like that was a little bit of a cheat [TS]

  because there's a lot of cheap it was a [TS]

  good table okay alright giant sheet just [TS]

  because yeah we had we had gotten to not [TS]

  going to say like these characters but [TS]

  we've gotten to know these characters [TS]

  and I mean I guess if he wouldn't have [TS]

  pulled this cheat and they would have [TS]

  just been other people barely scraping [TS]

  by to survive until they get back to [TS]

  earth it would have been even worse [TS]

  because then I would have had absolutely [TS]

  nobody to look at the story through so I [TS]

  don't six of one half dozen of the other [TS]

  there are Generation ship books that do [TS]

  that pull off or read or [TS]

  multi-generation books that go over [TS]

  three empires or travels or whatever in [TS]

  their ways to do it I kind of thought he [TS]

  was going to hand it off i thought [TS]

  there's we pivot point and they spend [TS]

  you know what generation orbit things [TS]

  would happen maybe i don't know i don't [TS]

  know exactly what's gonna happen at that [TS]

  point it didn't seem to me like they go [TS]

  back because that seems ridiculous so [TS]

  that shows what I know but I did think [TS]

  there are ways where you can have you [TS]

  know sort of a beautiful continuity as [TS]

  opposed to saying OK and now suspended [TS]

  animation i did like there was a great [TS]

  an analogy that comes at some point [TS]

  where i forget which character is talks [TS]

  about it being a child abuse that [TS]

  actually multi-generation ships are are [TS]

  like it's like a you know it's what [TS]

  kidnapping and stealing from your use [TS]

  the word it was klepto something was [TS]

  stealing from future generations and [TS]

  childhood and like that's all rather [TS]

  harsh like no it is because you send [TS]

  people off to have stolen all their [TS]

  children's futures and made the [TS]

  decisions to do that before they leave [TS]

  him like that is actually very powerful [TS]

  argument against multi-generation ships [TS]

  that people can't consent before they're [TS]

  born being born like that but i think [TS]

  part of this argument is too [TS]

  we are all born [TS]

  that we're all born without concerning [TS]

  born and you know never asked and the [TS]

  suspension parts they didn't I didn't [TS]

  think of it as cheat only because i have [TS]

  I think of it as piling onto the failure [TS]

  of the Generation ship because if they [TS]

  had just waited three hundred years [TS]

  their exploration would have been much [TS]

  easier because they could have been in [TS]

  this match and parts together and don't [TS]

  come back and this i have been for a [TS]

  long time thinking about them for [TS]

  someone already wrote a short story but [TS]

  a short story in which a giant [TS]

  Generation ship takes forever to get to [TS]

  a planet and they go around the planet [TS]

  and they get a mysterious transmission [TS]

  from the planet wishes humans who beat [TS]

  them there because of advances in [TS]

  technology and they just got there [TS]

  faster than the generation ships I've [TS]

  read that their entire I'm sure it's [TS]

  been written already so their entire [TS]

  mission is a fraud basically write you a [TS]

  complete this scott micronauts issue [TS]

  number one has that same plot little bit [TS]

  but there's a short story in which a [TS]

  Generation ship is everyone is in [TS]

  cryogenic storage they're traveling the [TS]

  captain has to wake up from time to time [TS]

  and someone should set them with faster [TS]

  light weapons which earth didn't exist [TS]

  believe existed and the captain cleverly [TS]

  beats them off and then says okay we're [TS]

  turning back because we're going at [TS]

  sublight speeds apparently someone [TS]

  else's developed FTL so we're gonna go [TS]

  back and fix it then go back out wanted [TS]

  to talk about Freya just a little bit [TS]

  out because i had and i think it was [TS]

  maybe that and the AI learning how to [TS]

  tell a story piece I don't know but like [TS]

  in the beginning of the book we are [TS]

  introduced to Freya and it's like oh [TS]

  this is a really cute six-year-old and [TS]

  her stuff that she's like not six and I [TS]

  felt like that was really sprung on me [TS]

  because it's like oh she's 14 and it [TS]

  runs until you just said that that the [TS]

  eighth i know what your age was it when [TS]

  she was 14 but i forgot that they left [TS]

  us forward [TS]

  I mean that the ex sorry but I didn't [TS]

  get that till just now yeah I think they [TS]

  were clues pretty early because I I [TS]

  almost don't remember a time where I [TS]

  didn't recognize that she was a you know [TS]

  sort of a young personal older person's [TS]

  body while they were talking about how [TS]

  much bigger she was then everybody and I [TS]

  was like okay you know it i I've worked [TS]

  with some big kids i used to work in [TS]

  preschools so I've worked with some some [TS]

  three year olds who could be mistaken [TS]

  for like six year old [TS]

  this is a thing that I have experience [TS]

  with I'm sure that colored that but and [TS]

  I I thought it was kind of like a weird [TS]

  thing where it's like six and then [TS]

  ok maybe she's like 12 and then we went [TS]

  forward a little bit and she's 14 and so [TS]

  she's like what an eight-year-old to in [TS]

  a 14 year olds body who they send off to [TS]

  wander around the ship and I mean that [TS]

  was all really odd to me and then she [TS]

  jumps from being like this this very [TS]

  childlike teenager to being a leader of [TS]

  the ship like like the eggs like yeah [TS]

  she's she's respected and a leader and [TS]

  blah blah but it's never shown we're [TS]

  told that she is her behavior doesn't [TS]

  see it doesn't indicate that she would [TS]

  be because she has these like temper [TS]

  tantrums all the time right [TS]

  I mean during the Civil War she has a [TS]

  she is there's there's a scene where [TS]

  there's like this it's like oh well [TS]

  we've got a problem what is it and she [TS]

  basically just screams and I thought [TS]

  really [TS]

  yes is this Kari that's the character [TS]

  you've got all right you know again I [TS]

  think he may be delights in having a [TS]

  character that is not particularly [TS]

  likeable but she you know III again [TS]

  again fascinating to have that moment of [TS]

  like as a reader judging the main [TS]

  character in single boy you're not as [TS]

  good as your mom was right but that was [TS]

  me i was doing that although I was it [TS]

  was it's like it's not what you know [TS]

  it's not what you know or what you can [TS]

  do it's not even who you know it's who [TS]

  you're related to that's the only thing [TS]

  she has going for her then there's the [TS]

  jokey character that they introduces a [TS]

  mathematical genius and kind of an [TS]

  oddball Marco this character is going to [TS]

  be very important to develop the plot 0 [TS]

  knots well maybe later with the orbital [TS]

  mechanics sort of but they don't let you [TS]

  know there's a I thought they were going [TS]

  to do this thing [TS]

  there's a famous sci-fi story remember [TS]

  who wrote it was decades ago I was [TS]

  probably before i was born but in which [TS]

  I earth sends out these astronauts again [TS]

  like faster-than-light or sublight speed [TS]

  to Alpha Centauri to you know do some [TS]

  probing they're going off and the [TS]

  farther they get away from Earth the [TS]

  sort of scarier they become they become [TS]

  more intelligent and that was apparently [TS]

  the hidden goal and they wind up like [TS]

  sending a beam back to earth and disrupt [TS]

  society and come back like God's it's [TS]

  really fascinating story the part of the [TS]

  Ark is the [TS]

  further away they go them they they just [TS]

  start doing all this advanced math this [TS]

  and Batgirl numbers are doing all this [TS]

  nonsense i thought oh we're gonna have a [TS]

  little not magical realism but it's [TS]

  going to be [TS]

  ah ok maybe it's an homage to that or [TS]

  jokey is gonna be part of a generation [TS]

  and this whole idea that the ship [TS]

  everyone's getting sort of stupider [TS]

  because they have bad nutrition over [TS]

  time they messed something up and so [TS]

  Fraya is you know somehow [TS]

  developmentally disabled maybe you're [TS]

  not really because she's not not smart [TS]

  just can't do math and it's confusing [TS]

  and no joke he is kind of a savant and [TS]

  anyway so it was kind of back and forth [TS]

  in and then his work his importance is [TS]

  never realized and we're never really [TS]

  deal with the impact of that whole thing [TS]

  like that they're all bromide blackacre [TS]

  something that kids brains out of [TS]

  bromide in it you're like this is an [TS]

  interesting exploration but doesn't play [TS]

  out in the characters that the [TS]

  characters are less sophisticated we're [TS]

  not really seeing that so much we're [TS]

  seeing a repeat of previous flights on [TS]

  the ship so that's one that can sing too [TS]

  well it was better than the last one how [TS]

  do people feel about the fact that the [TS]

  ship didn't make it i actually had a [TS]

  little bit of that a of rocks i spoil [TS]

  and spoil monument valley by the moment [TS]

  on your Valley where you sort of there's [TS]

  a pain related to a seemingly an object [TS]

  that has life and I thought well yeah [TS]

  has to make it that's how these novels [TS]

  work and say it doesn't and then you [TS]

  have what I felt like it was sort of a [TS]

  it was a dissolved three-story after [TS]

  that so i wasn't sure you know they're [TS]

  on earth and it's sort of the end of the [TS]

  story and it's not only played on a very [TS]

  odd fashion [TS]

  well they're terrorists they're [TS]

  terraforming earth at the end right so [TS]

  that's right yeah that's true true i did [TS]

  feel for the ship but whereas in the [TS]

  most books and properties like this I [TS]

  feel for the ship in part for myself and [TS]

  in part for the characters that are also [TS]

  feeling for the ship in this case I [TS]

  didn't care what the characters thought [TS]

  at all about the ship [TS]

  nope though I did feel bad myself that [TS]

  was the one moment of real emotion i [TS]

  think that I that I truly felt at any [TS]

  point just because you know here's this [TS]

  the ship who is basically a character [TS]

  possibly the character who has has done [TS]

  all of this stuff to make it possible [TS]

  and no it's really selfless thing that [TS]

  that she it has done in [TS]

  order to make life possible for all of [TS]

  these all these little creatures so I [TS]

  was I was I was sad for myself and I was [TS]

  also a little bit annoyed just on behalf [TS]

  of the fact that i had read through all [TS]

  of this and not only did they not you [TS]

  know get to colonize something someplace [TS]

  else but this this ship didn't even get [TS]

  to make it all the way through and I [TS]

  didn't get to see any kind of a happy [TS]

  ending that I cared about I was really [TS]

  hoping that the ship would just go into [TS]

  orbit and there you know maybe people [TS]

  would just go and live on the ship but [TS]

  be able to be replenished from stocks [TS]

  are you don't think surfing is have a [TS]

  happy ending [TS]

  no no I do not bodysurfing it was also [TS]

  very much the end of thumb of a green [TS]

  Mars I think isn't it or blue marks was [TS]

  the third book in the series [TS]

  some people are on Mars and Mars is very [TS]

  earth-like now they're on a beach and [TS]

  there's even a bit in that trilogy in [TS]

  which marshalls go back to earth and [TS]

  they sort of deal with returning to [TS]

  Earth and people have existential life [TS]

  failure which they just stop living for [TS]

  no reason that sort of in this book too [TS]

  so I feel like he took some ideas and [TS]

  and it wasn't part of the same universe [TS]

  it's clearly not really the same [TS]

  universe as the DeMars trilogy [TS]

  I don't know it's a I i'm glad i read it [TS]

  Scott I'm glad to read it I'm glad you [TS]

  read it to claim haha well redeemed I [TS]

  mean I need a little Redemption from [TS]

  2312 and i just love his work so much [TS]

  and he's breaking it so hard for me to [TS]

  love his work [TS]

  I still like it so I'm also glad you [TS]

  read it's got you know that I'm sorry [TS]

  that you read it now i i'm i'm kinda [TS]

  with Glenn where I appreciated things [TS]

  about it and was frustrated by it but it [TS]

  did not it did not leave me in the same [TS]

  unpleasant place that his previous novel [TS]

  left me where I i had to be talked into [TS]

  reading another book by this writer [TS]

  whose other books I've liked yeah [TS]

  there's one thing i want to quote from [TS]

  the book because it may be left so hard [TS]

  it was perfect thing about how we're [TS]

  back on earth and they get invited this [TS]

  colloquium their flow into America and [TS]

  it's like all these people are standing [TS]

  on talking about how great well you know [TS]

  you guys didn't work hard enough and [TS]

  we'll do it again we learned a lot from [TS]

  this and this bit about they were all [TS]

  men all Caucasian most spirited all [TS]

  wearing jackets was [TS]

  yes that was the moment I just wanted to [TS]

  throw a book across the really in all [TS]

  that time there's there's nothing for me [TS]

  to look forward to you know okay i can [TS]

  understand i can i dont have space [TS]

  travel to look forward to we're not [TS]

  going to colonize tau study but now my [TS]

  men are just still in the same crap [TS]

  place they are now thinking she was the [TS]

  only person she's back to the days [TS]

  there's just bearded men but you get [TS]

  some yeah alright well you know Aurora [TS]

  there it is [TS]

  don't you want to read it now you shot [TS]

  right i think i think they're the I i [TS]

  think the I liked this Erica will know [TS]

  this because I'm on those depressing [TS]

  episodes of the audio guide to Babylon 5 [TS]

  charm that I think I appreciate when a [TS]

  writer tries to tell a story that is is [TS]

  that they're going to be tough with us [TS]

  and this is Kim Stanley Robinson saying [TS]

  oh you think generation super good idea [TS]

  well they're not and there are other [TS]

  planets for us out there and just give [TS]

  up and turn around and come home and our [TS]

  that's what this is this is him having [TS]

  that kind of vision of like it's a bad [TS]

  idea and look let me show you how bad an [TS]

  idea and I've read some nonfiction stuff [TS]

  some like interviews that your family [TS]

  has become kind of washes to become he's [TS]

  kind of a grumpy old crank he's not Ave [TS]

  the you won't you old with you young [TS]

  whippersnapper friday yet but i don't [TS]

  know how far off is you know i will own [TS]

  that that at least the trunk of my [TS]

  problem with this book was based on my [TS]

  own expectation I thought it was going [TS]

  to be something else they didn't i [TS]

  didn't see where it was going until far [TS]

  too late that it was going to that dark [TS]

  place and saying saying around tough [TS]

  beans [TS]

  exactly exactly so it had gone in kind [TS]

  of knowing more about what the story was [TS]

  I probably would have enjoyed the [TS]

  experience of it a little more but as it [TS]

  is i did not and this is I don't think [TS]

  this is a good book if you're looking [TS]

  for a book to tell you a happy story [TS]

  that will pull you can escape into and [TS]

  the you know the power of man or [TS]

  humanity i should say overcoming [TS]

  challenges and triumphs attending and [TS]

  skip this book [TS]

  yeah let me take a break to tell you [TS]

  about one of our sponsors [TS]

  it's the walking dead collectors models [TS]

  officially authorized by AMC and now [TS]

  available directly from eaglemoss [TS]

  collections it's the ultimate the [TS]

  walking dead figurine collection created [TS]

  for ultimate fans of the show it's an [TS]

  extensive collection featuring the most [TS]

  popular characters from across all the [TS]

  seasons the walking dead as seen on AMC [TS]

  every characters depicted in a classic [TS]

  pose stands on a base and has been [TS]

  faithfully reproduced in 12 21 scale [TS]

  that's about three and three-quarters [TS]

  inches tall [TS]

  I have a bunch of them in front of me [TS]

  right now I've got Tyrese here they sent [TS]

  these to me I've got the governor who [TS]

  looks super menacing as usual shown you [TS]

  know she's got that sword [TS]

  it's pretty awesome Glenn is here is [TS]

  gonna have a baseball cap on though I [TS]

  think he is not wearing a baseball cap [TS]

  what's wrong can come on find that hat [TS]

  daryl dixon I've got here Darrell Scott [TS]

  is his gun i got Merle with his crazy [TS]

  thing on his arm and of course Rick [TS]

  Grimes and you can start your collection [TS]

  today with Rick Grimes for only four [TS]

  dollars and ninety-five cents with free [TS]

  shipping all these models are cast a [TS]

  specially formulated metallic resin and [TS]

  they're painted by hand [TS]

  following the original references from [TS]

  the MC archives everyone comes with a [TS]

  detailed booklet spotlighting that [TS]

  character and new models are released [TS]

  monthly and delivered directly to your [TS]

  door so I guess I've got seven months [TS]

  worth right on my desk right now it's [TS]

  pretty awesome i can make a little [TS]

  dioramas of them i can keep them in the [TS]

  box if I want to be cruel or i can get [TS]

  them out and play walking dead with him [TS]

  you can cancel your subscription anytime [TS]

  so there's no risk to you for details on [TS]

  this whole collection and to order yours [TS]

  go to TWD collection.com / smell that's [TS]

  Rick Grimes for 495 with free shipping [TS]

  it looks great [TS]

  check it out TWD collection calm / smell [TS]

  and thanks to eaglemoss for sponsoring [TS]

  the incomparable alright we're going to [TS]

  move on alphabetically to Luna colon new [TS]

  moon by ian MacDonald it's a book is [TS]

  booked a different book also set in [TS]

  space it's on the moon just as you might [TS]

  have got from the title which contains [TS]

  the words luna and Moon just in case you [TS]

  don't know it is the moon that we know [TS]

  it is not a new moon it is a [TS]

  match the other new moon yeah [TS]

  yes it is our moon but it's got a its [TS]

  got cities dug into the into the ground [TS]

  and in the sides of craters and things [TS]

  like that and what tricked-out moon and [TS]

  so this book the idea the idea here is [TS]

  that it's um it's a I it was sold to me [TS]

  as sort of being like a game of thrones [TS]

  and in the Hat on the moon where there [TS]

  are powerful families vying for control [TS]

  of various things on the moon it is a [TS]

  that is what it is it is politics and [TS]

  drama amidst the 5ki families and the [TS]

  other people who live on the moon there [TS]

  are minors and there are you know [TS]

  transportation experts and there are [TS]

  industrialists and things like that and [TS]

  and then the core the core of the book [TS]

  is that we we see the quarter family and [TS]

  Adrianna Adrianna kurta is the founder [TS]

  of this family and she's she's dying she [TS]

  sort of has a self-made woman she came [TS]

  to the moon with nothing and created [TS]

  this sort of dynasty around her but she [TS]

  has to buy with the problematic members [TS]

  of the other families and there are many [TS]

  different family members they all have [TS]

  interesting quirks about their [TS]

  personalities and they intermarry [TS]

  because it's it that is a game of [TS]

  thrones like element where there are [TS]

  sort of marriages and contracts that are [TS]

  done based on creating these kind of [TS]

  connections between the two families and [TS]

  yeah and it's on the moon so that makes [TS]

  it science fiction because there's some [TS]

  it's on the moon [TS]

  yeah this one now it took me awhile to [TS]

  get into this book I i tend to as you [TS]

  may have guessed that based on what I [TS]

  said about or up you i prefer a story [TS]

  that's more of a story that has that you [TS]

  know a beginning a middle and an end [TS]

  sort of a tail because as I said history [TS]

  books have always bored me and this did [TS]

  read a little bit like a history book [TS]

  eventually though I really got wrapped [TS]

  up in the world I felt like it was [TS]

  pretty elegant the characters and their [TS]

  family politics where enough to draw [TS]

  mean and keep me wanting to come back to [TS]

  read it I could I could very easily put [TS]

  it down and it did take me a while to [TS]

  read the whole thing but I didn't drive [TS]

  going back to it see Aurora so without [TS]

  any spoilers that is what I have to say [TS]

  about this book until the end [TS]

  put that on the cover tried going back [TS]

  to see dread free actually and Scott you [TS]

  have a do you have a summation of your [TS]

  feelings about this [TS]

  this book is ian MacDonald I know is one [TS]

  of your more her favorite writers you [TS]

  not he is in fact and I feel like he has [TS]

  been casting around for a way to make it [TS]

  big in the literary world he tried to he [TS]

  tried some young adult novels for a [TS]

  while which i read it i hate young adult [TS]

  novels but I read his and I kind of like [TS]

  them but one of the things that draws me [TS]

  into me and mcdonald is that he writes [TS]

  complicated multi-layered stories and I [TS]

  felt like this one was not as [TS]

  complicated as I was hoping it would be [TS]

  but I understood what he was going for [TS]

  he is I think Jason you said it already [TS]

  this is a game of he has described [TS]

  themselves as game of domes or dallas on [TS]

  the moon so I and I think he he lives up [TS]

  to both of those things that he's [TS]

  already sold the television rights so [TS]

  clearly he's he's done his work here yes [TS]

  and there's a sequel on the way there is [TS]

  a sequel in merely a case just gonna be [TS]

  a to book series i believe he decides [TS]

  that if the second book sells a lot more [TS]

  i'm sure they'll be a certain fuck yes [TS]

  Luna wolf moon coming in September I'm [TS]

  not kidding [TS]

  oh no they're the wolves on the moon [TS]

  anyway wherever it well there are the [TS]

  world the house before [TS]

  thank you so and I feel like you he's [TS]

  written many novels and he's some of my [TS]

  favorite novels of his have been the [TS]

  Dervish house-to-house great great book [TS]

  and I malafide ban Glenn malafide man [TS]

  off i love that I remember yes and what [TS]

  is it the river of God have you ever [TS]

  gotten those two books i think our [TS]

  the pinnacle of his craft I think he's a [TS]

  fantastic writer i think that he wrote [TS]

  this fantastically I feel like it could [TS]

  have been more complicated lots of fish [TS]

  that's just me [TS]

  I like complicated but glad that the [TS]

  more complicated part exactly wasn't [TS]

  complicated enough for me could I would [TS]

  have been talking about could have been [TS]

  more complicated i'm sure he could do it [TS]

  if you re river of God's you will [TS]

  understand what happened to make it even [TS]

  more complicated you throw in a couple [TS]

  more genders how do you you could you [TS]

  could make it a more complicated [TS]

  that being said I really enjoyed it i [TS]

  read it very quickly i want to read the [TS]

  second one right now [TS]

  so are we doing another spoiler horn for [TS]

  this call ya say about the ok let's fire [TS]

  off the spoiler horn the moon horn for [TS]

  Luna colon new moon [TS]

  for their colon you porn performer [TS]

  Collins don't spoil your called Scott to [TS]

  go ahead go ahead and finish your [TS]

  thought Scott alsea the beginning in the [TS]

  end he opens it with this you know kind [TS]

  of punk kid doing this moon run thing [TS]

  they do which seems insane where they [TS]

  run without any protection across the [TS]

  surface of the Moon and you know part of [TS]

  the thing is it's a thrill and you might [TS]

  die and it ends with a character who was [TS]

  scared of doing that kind of doing that [TS]

  save his own life and I think I'm very [TS]

  nice balance [TS]

  yeah I really I really did like that i [TS]

  like the book ending of those two scenes [TS]

  I thought it was very effective i really [TS]

  like the beginning scene and then the [TS]

  callback and you know he he spent so [TS]

  much time talking about how you know his [TS]

  father father of the character of the [TS]

  beginning kind of drives the whole thing [TS]

  and doesn't you seem to think his son is [TS]

  living leading a frivolous life and is [TS]

  kind of scared of doing this thing that [TS]

  his son did and there's a lot like the [TS]

  little undercurrent of jealousy and then [TS]

  at the end he has to do the same thing [TS]

  and you know goes off to his but [TS]

  whatever secret Russian orbiting space [TS]

  station and space [TS]

  I'm glad you pointed that out because I [TS]

  didn't even pick up on that I was just [TS]

  so angry [TS]

  fair enough it's another reaction that a [TS]

  mist of everything i did have that [TS]

  moment where i got to that at that point [TS]

  the last chapter basically am I thought [TS]

  to myself oh so this arm is going to be [TS]

  more than one book then that was always [TS]

  like I guess there's a lot I guess [TS]

  and it makes sense actually that it's [TS]

  too because that's sort of what it felt [TS]

  like it i guess this is the fall of the [TS]

  kurta family and that the next book will [TS]

  be the revenge of the quarter family JR [TS]

  has been shot in spate and Moon dallas [TS]

  but he will be back [TS]

  you know I didn't realize that he had [TS]

  created he had said that thing about [TS]

  Dallas because and which is interesting [TS]

  because I did feel like that's what it [TS]

  was [TS]

  I mean at the end made me so mad because [TS]

  it didn't feel like it sort of fit with [TS]

  that so much it was like this [TS]

  the book was like this lovely story [TS]

  being played out like like a ribbon [TS]

  flowing gently in the lunar breeze you [TS]

  know bit by bit and learning things i'm [TS]

  watching characters do stuff that I'm [TS]

  interested in it didn't feel to me like [TS]

  it was working up to anything much and [TS]

  that [TS]

  ok I was it took me a little while but [TS]

  has finally in this world i was to [TS]

  content to just exist in it and see who [TS]

  did what and when and I really was [TS]

  approaching it like a soap opera [TS]

  you've got this huge cast of characters [TS]

  spanning several generations they each [TS]

  have their own storyline they all [TS]

  overlap a little bit from time to time [TS]

  but not in a particularly episodic way [TS]

  and I was totally fine with that and [TS]

  like a soap opera i would have been fine [TS]

  with continuing to read about that in [TS]

  perpetuity instead and a brief few dozen [TS]

  pages at the end everything falls apart [TS]

  the characters that I had spent all this [TS]

  time getting to know many of them died [TS]

  painful bloody horrible deaths and you [TS]

  know that survived just barely did so [TS]

  and have nothing but pain head of them [TS]

  for at least a while I hated hits how [TS]

  much I felt completely cheated and you [TS]

  know maybe it was supposed to be some [TS]

  sort of metaphor for how uncaring and [TS]

  harsh the moon herself is but I just [TS]

  didn't care [TS]

  It was as if they had ended as the world [TS]

  turns by bombing oakdale no thank you i [TS]

  am I felt like I didn't know that [TS]

  there's going to be a sequel I was [TS]

  basically like you want to do a bit club [TS]

  episode was like sure what you want me [TS]

  to read and just like this is what [TS]

  you're going to read and I was like okay [TS]

  and i started reading and I felt like [TS]

  the whole book was one long exposition [TS]

  and I was like is this building to [TS]

  anything it was just like just kind of [TS]

  just kind of going along and yeah there [TS]

  are things that happen and they're kind [TS]

  of little bumps but they're all like [TS]

  seem to be fairly little bumps and then [TS]

  and then again yet the climax all at the [TS]

  end and then it comes crashing and then [TS]

  we're kind of left up there and there's [TS]

  not really any resolution and so then I [TS]

  started reading about it and was like oh [TS]

  this is there's going to be a sequel and [TS]

  I was like right so basically read the [TS]

  first chapter of the next book over the [TS]

  course of you know however long it took [TS]

  me to read it it was like the end with [TS]

  sweeps week if we go back to the soap [TS]

  opera thing rates are going to leave [TS]

  them wanting more and i don't think it [TS]

  works that way i think i was so upset [TS]

  about that just coming out of nowhere [TS]

  that I'm not sure I honestly want to [TS]

  read the second book I had a [TS]

  a premonition that things we're not [TS]

  going to end well when i started reading [TS]

  this book of course of his other books [TS]

  so yeah that might help [TS]

  yeah I came into these books not ever [TS]

  having read anything by these authors [TS]

  not really knowing anything about them [TS]

  and not knowing anything not knowing [TS]

  thing one about either one of these [TS]

  books so I was going in completely cold [TS]

  when what do you think about Luna I felt [TS]

  like it had a draft quality to it and it [TS]

  and not the work wasn't finished and I [TS]

  think I i agree that he's a he's a rich [TS]

  characterization artists like he he [TS]

  takes indefinitely uses because not [TS]

  spare he doesn't use like three words to [TS]

  describe something we're not doing that [TS]

  but he actually built lots of pictures [TS]

  in my head very rich interesting [TS]

  characters many who had you know semi [TS]

  believable interior life and when I got [TS]

  to the soap opera feel of it I was like [TS]

  okay this is all you need you don't need [TS]

  3d needed two and a half D thing if you [TS]

  try to create these kinds of mechanisms [TS]

  and and you know I loved dune only the [TS]

  first book not the others and doing is [TS]

  very much space operate and I think [TS]

  there are things in common you know one [TS]

  trouble I think he has is when you read [TS]

  a book about people trying to carve out [TS]

  especially in dependence on the moon [TS]

  which is spot one of many subplots [TS]

  you're always going to compare with [TS]

  moves a harsh mistress if you've read [TS]

  that book it resonates and I feel like [TS]

  this book I didn't borrow from it but I [TS]

  feel like there are too many parallels [TS]

  to it for me to ignore how much better [TS]

  aspects were done I mean it's one thing [TS]

  when it's totally different or it [TS]

  recognizes some of you know that the [TS]

  source mythology that a lot of people [TS]

  have her sci-fi fans for way back or [TS]

  been covered it later [TS]

  I so that was an issue for me but I also [TS]

  feel like I'm going along like okay I'm [TS]

  starting to feel this world and now [TS]

  there are werewolves I mean it was [TS]

  little you know little boys like yeah [TS]

  okay werewolves werewolves are exactly [TS]

  like this except when they're not [TS]

  they're super smart but then they make [TS]

  stupid choices and there's phase of the [TS]

  Moon the earth where I can explain why [TS]

  now there's 30 of them now and now they [TS]

  make that you know you're like oh ok or [TS]

  somewhere later in the book is the [TS]

  Mackenzies repay everything three times [TS]

  and you're like alright shouldn't you [TS]

  have work that theme and much earlier [TS]

  and I the the whole weird subplot about [TS]

  idea [TS]

  being around rya be what's-her-name [TS]

  after gonna Nanjiani but the daughter uh [TS]

  it's aria area i'm sorry i don't think [TS]

  everyone [TS]

  Ariel being a you know an autoerotic [TS]

  self manipulator then like I i'm making [TS]

  a judgment but i'm going to say that [TS]

  scene is the least erotic description of [TS]

  auto-erotic behavior that I think we're [TS]

  ready so the most clinical Minneapolis [TS]

  to feel disgusted by didn't think so the [TS]

  sex in the book there's a fair amount of [TS]

  it in a drawer here like here's an [TS]

  element they got me when all of a sudden [TS]

  Lucas says Jorge will you marry me and [TS]

  I'm like it's a very soap opera moment [TS]

  like did not see that coming yeah like [TS]

  it there's no motivation exploration is [TS]

  all that I thought coming yeah i mean [TS]

  you saw i could see that only the gears [TS]

  being ground into position to make that [TS]

  makes sense but there was no I'm married [TS]

  that's very soap opera right is like [TS]

  hires that hires the beautiful beautiful [TS]

  musician to play the music and falls in [TS]

  love with him I mean now and i agree [TS]

  with that I feel like he has just rich [TS]

  enough characterization that I expect [TS]

  more from and just pour enough [TS]

  characterization or just a little [TS]

  supportive he pulls back enough from [TS]

  creating fully three-dimensional [TS]

  characters who live and breathe [TS]

  I don't think he does it and I think [TS]

  that's intentional i think Ariel the way [TS]

  I think the way that her sex room is [TS]

  portrayed is perfectly in keeping with [TS]

  the way she's portrayed throughout she [TS]

  is a she is a kind of the that's quite [TS]

  the black sheep of the family but she's [TS]

  like a lawyer and she's like a control [TS]

  freak and she is portrayed as being kind [TS]

  of this independent person she was she [TS]

  doesn't need anyone or anything she's [TS]

  got her own agenda she's separating as [TS]

  much as she came from her family as much [TS]

  as you can and then when you get to the [TS]

  point where you're in her you don't go [TS]

  into that room she is the one playwright [TS]

  it's great it's not locked or anything [TS]

  it's just doze I don't know it was it [TS]

  was it was peculiar and yet I felt like [TS]

  it was in keeping with her character [TS]

  that she has you know she doesn't need [TS]

  anyone she takes care of herself and [TS]

  that's fine that's you know that's part [TS]

  of the variety because we do see a lot [TS]

  of variety and in sexuality with the [TS]

  Wolves I i kinda like the Wolves because [TS]

  the idea there is that they're a they're [TS]

  a you know a different kind of human [TS]

  community then existed before and they [TS]

  use the you know the idea that they're [TS]

  looking up at the Earth instead of the [TS]

  Moon I thought that was kind of pole [TS]

  dick and weird and interesting that they [TS]

  had created this whole new culture of [TS]

  like this you know this group culture [TS]

  where they have the behavior when they [TS]

  were the wolf mode and the this other [TS]

  behavior when they weren't i-i-i thought [TS]

  that was kind of interesting I i I'd [TS]

  like it if they would have made it just [TS]

  sort of be poetic and made it seem like [TS]

  it was a choice that these people had [TS]

  made to to be part of the sect of [TS]

  society you know and I enjoyed the [TS]

  different pronouns and stuff that was [TS]

  that when I would've been okay with the [TS]

  fact that they made it some sort of [TS]

  biochemical reaction that when the earth [TS]

  is full wave they become a completely [TS]

  different person and even their little [TS]

  AI things on their shoulders change [TS]

  because they're just a completely [TS]

  different person and I i don't think [TS]

  that that was explained enough for me to [TS]

  really get on board with that so now the [TS]

  fact that wolf moon is the name of the [TS]

  next book is another thing that makes me [TS]

  kind of not want to read it and sellers [TS]

  is enormous amount of setup that didn't [TS]

  pay off and I realize that's the problem [TS]

  reading first a 42 partner and it turns [TS]

  out [TS]

  yeah but i also i can say i feel like [TS]

  you know the fact that Ariel it's not [TS]

  that she is not inconsistent that she [TS]

  has that she enjoys you know not having [TS]

  a partner I just felt all the sex in the [TS]

  book almost uniformly was a key and I [TS]

  don't know what I've read plenty of [TS]

  sci-fi which sex is not a keen as it's [TS]

  like you know the the Russian guys its [TS]

  moons man moon sextile to your friends [TS]

  oh yeah moon said I'm not going to the [TS]

  moon that we tell you that's cool isn't [TS]

  it struck me is all the sex in the book [TS]

  was very sort of matter of fact which I [TS]

  I got to a point I kind of appreciated i [TS]

  like the fact that sex is not such a big [TS]

  deal here people just do it and they do [TS]

  it with whomever they want and the same [TS]

  thing with it with the genders you know [TS]

  you had and in addition to the pronouns [TS]

  for the Wolves you had a different [TS]

  pronouns for somebody who I guest shows [TS]

  neither gender and I I appreciated that [TS]

  I always like it when future societies [TS]

  don't have the same big hang-ups about [TS]

  stuff that we do now [TS]

  that's kind of a nice feature thing but [TS]

  I do agree that because of that the sex [TS]

  didn't feel sexy but I feel like that [TS]

  was on purpose and I was alright with it [TS]

  let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

  one of our sponsors this week it's [TS]

  Harry's now [TS]

  good things come in sets of 3 i'm going [TS]

  to do some numerology for you march the [TS]

  third month of the year and also our [TS]

  friends at Harry's have had three years [TS]

  in business bringing [TS]

  great shaving stuff to people like you [TS]

  if you're new to harry's I've got a [TS]

  special deal for you to try three [TS]

  there's that number again perhaps [TS]

  commander data is trying to tell us [TS]

  something [TS]

  apparently started reference no all [TS]

  right anyway perhaps you would like to [TS]

  try three of these expertly crafted [TS]

  five-blade German razors [TS]

  that's right it's 3+2 that's how many [TS]

  blades there are a handle and shave [TS]

  cream for ten bucks with the offer code [TS]

  smell my last name [TS]

  now i've been using Harry's shaving [TS]

  stuff for a while now i really like it I [TS]

  i use the area's razor those blades are [TS]

  excellent i kinda laughed at the idea of [TS]

  a five blade razor but you know what the [TS]

  shave is amazing i just tried the newest [TS]

  Harry's handle and razor the other day [TS]

  you know getting one of those fresh [TS]

  razor blades so good to such a good job [TS]

  and of course i really like the shave [TS]

  cream I can't stop talking about it just [TS]

  like minty smell I'm very sensitive to [TS]

  strong smells and it doesn't get in my [TS]

  face it's on my face but it's not in my [TS]

  face all day with the smell its pleasant [TS]

  when I'm shaving and then it's gone [TS]

  I wash it off it's very nice so what [TS]

  makes very special the only shaving [TS]

  company that's got amazing quality and [TS]

  low prices they have the high-quality [TS]

  german-engineered they popped factory [TS]

  five blade cartridges like I said super [TS]

  close shave no cuts no burns quality [TS]

  guaranteed to give you a refund if [TS]

  you're not happy with the product and [TS]

  then the prices these are factory direct [TS]

  prices there's no middleman shipped [TS]

  right to your door you don't have to go [TS]

  down to the drugstore and ask them to [TS]

  unlock something and they sell their [TS]

  blades a half the price of the leading [TS]

  brand because of this system that [TS]

  they've got over a million people have [TS]

  already [TS]

  already [TS]

  in the switch thousands more moving [TS]

  every day to harry's I've done it and [TS]

  I'm very happy about the results so why [TS]

  pay $32 for an eight pack of blades you [TS]

  can get them for half the price of [TS]

  Harry's dot-com the starter set is a [TS]

  great deal [TS]

  it's $15 you get a razor moisturizing [TS]

  shave cream and three razor blades and [TS]

  Harry's doesn't like to discount the [TS]

  prices are already pretty low but [TS]

  there's a special offer if you're trying [TS]

  Harry's for the first time five dollars [TS]

  off your first order [TS]

  use promo code smell stop overpaying for [TS]

  a great shape go to Harry's dot-com [TS]

  right now [TS]

  har ry s.com and use code smell at [TS]

  checkout thank you to harry's for [TS]

  sponsoring being comfortable i really [TS]

  appreciated the way that this story [TS]

  explores class in that we get marina who [TS]

  when we meet her is basically down to [TS]

  nothing and she's taking she's you know [TS]

  she's a a talented trained person who's [TS]

  come to the moon to seek her fortune and [TS]

  she's basically destitute and can't [TS]

  breathe deeply because she is because [TS]

  oxygen is regulated on the moon and [TS]

  you're basically charged for oxygen they [TS]

  do not have Obamacare on the moon is [TS]

  what I'm saying yeah and and I think [TS]

  seeing the start you know yes you can [TS]

  set up that juxtaposition of the reishi [TS]

  ends up getting a job with the with [TS]

  corte helio and they are not mining [TS]

  helium on the moon and she learns about [TS]

  the family and gets to know the family [TS]

  and all of that but she's our way in but [TS]

  because we meet her when she is [TS]

  desperate and destitute I feel like [TS]

  that's good [TS]

  it colors everything else we see about [TS]

  the society knowing that there are very [TS]

  poor people at the bottom of the of the [TS]

  ladder on in moon society and then there [TS]

  are these these super rich families and [TS]

  i liked i like that i thought that was a [TS]

  really nice touch to have everybody else [TS]

  get short of breath and thirsty during [TS]

  this first chapters we sure did I [TS]

  thought the four elementals part was [TS]

  very clever and I think you're ready [TS]

  showed you this skate like the scarcity [TS]

  and what people actually striving for [TS]

  but they did give her a girlfriend the [TS]

  refrigerator right Blake he's feeling [TS]

  ill she can't provide for him and he's [TS]

  gone a lot of the break she comes back [TS]

  with every skin cell has been harvested [TS]

  because that's what we do in the moon [TS]

  I'm like girlfriend refrigerator you [TS]

  know and then Blake has mentioned a [TS]

  couple other times I don't think I don't [TS]

  think so that was that was not fringing [TS]

  because [TS]

  I don't think that his death actually [TS]

  motivated her to do anything no it was [TS]

  just sad just but I could was too [TS]

  convenient for me that it's like you [TS]

  know somebody dies well you know it [TS]

  didn't motivate her you're right it [TS]

  wasn't motivation so wasn't fringing it [TS]

  was something something equally he was [TS]

  sort of thrown away and I thought [TS]

  actually marina i'm going to say I think [TS]

  she was my favorite character I felt she [TS]

  was actually very well developed from [TS]

  not being in that higher strata and kind [TS]

  of being abilities and then accidentally [TS]

  like and plausibly and accidentally you [TS]

  know saving life is over and over and [TS]

  being in the right spot at the right [TS]

  time like that was to me a very great [TS]

  science-fiction roll someone who just [TS]

  happens to eke out the right moment the [TS]

  right place that's such a trope and I [TS]

  felt that she is a character was my was [TS]

  my favorite because of that we said [TS]

  Dallas but i'm going to say the [TS]

  godfather and that's why I like Adriana [TS]

  court because we get her whole story of [TS]

  how she goes from Brazil to the moon and [TS]

  has these you know and found this [TS]

  company with her wits and like a whole [TS]

  like ploy that she and her husband set [TS]

  up in order to get this and get around [TS]

  the other families who don't want to let [TS]

  her have it and you know she built this [TS]

  thing and she's going to do a demo and [TS]

  they blow it up but she's secretly done [TS]

  a back-up plan and she's and she just [TS]

  sit there instead and she gets all the [TS]

  money and creates a thing and I I and [TS]

  and then she's dying so we get this [TS]

  story and it's a great rise to power its [TS]

  like their father to basically it's her [TS]

  rise to power and then we're also seeing [TS]

  that it's all spinning out of control [TS]

  and so much of of this effort and all [TS]

  these things she's created are basically [TS]

  destroyed in the last couple of chapters [TS]

  of the book and I i really like that I [TS]

  like that that that epic kind of rise [TS]

  and fall of of her story and I mean a [TS]

  little bit like Aurora she's so [TS]

  impressive that it does make you feel [TS]

  like the next generation really some [TS]

  living up to her which i think is [TS]

  interesting and they are they're all [TS]

  interesting characters but they there is [TS]

  that sense of like the family dynasty [TS]

  where you've got this exalted leader [TS]

  okay you know the the elder and and then [TS]

  everybody else is trying very hard to [TS]

  live up to what you know what she wants [TS]

  to do and they can't but they could told [TS]

  the story he could hold the story with [TS]

  those three chapters [TS]

  that are entirely her telling her [TS]

  history that given the start of the book [TS]

  and we're very doll and God knows to be [TS]

  drafted right the first time around but [TS]

  instead by giving us a lot of stuff and [TS]

  then taking us back understanding the [TS]

  struggle i mean is it's rich it's also [TS]

  her last confession essentially right [TS]

  because she's telling that story to the [TS]

  spoon [TS]

  none whatever she is right when using [TS]

  this saloon sisters and so it's it's her [TS]

  like confession of her life story to the [TS]

  person who is going to you know she's [TS]

  telling it to is this religious figure [TS]

  that she's funding their order and in [TS]

  return she gets to confess her sins to [TS]

  and tell her life story unless stop [TS]

  Scott I'm coming with you I I think [TS]

  McDonald's a wonderful writer I I i [TS]

  wouldn't say this was as good as the [TS]

  Dervish house but I did see it since [TS]

  when i was reading it like as a stylist [TS]

  I just I think he's I think he's really [TS]

  great i think he's really great at the [TS]

  writing it does feel a little engineered [TS]

  i would say that it does feel like what [TS]

  if I wrote a potboiler right could I [TS]

  could I get TV money if I wrote a [TS]

  potboiler and but it's a good i think [TS]

  it's a good potboiler but it's a [TS]

  potboiler it is it is he slide feel like [TS]

  yeah he's slumming a little bit but [TS]

  maybe that's okay [TS]

  it'sit's there's a cool i think there's [TS]

  a lot of cool stuff a lot of interesting [TS]

  images that you know the the little girl [TS]

  Luna who's wandering around and she's in [TS]

  the little secret garden and all thanked [TS]

  yeah I love include you know and I and I [TS]

  like the various sexuality and and some [TS]

  of the characters i like that i like the [TS]

  character who I don't know I assume [TS]

  everybody knows this but the the the [TS]

  character who runs out on his family and [TS]

  and without his ID and um and it's like [TS]

  sleeping on people's couches for half [TS]

  the book latino and and creating fashion [TS]

  trends wherever he goes like maybe been [TS]

  faking I just love anything that was so [TS]

  unexpected and I thought makes all this [TS]

  there's something funny here whatever [TS]

  it's like no he's just good Baker it's [TS]

  sort of sweet and that was a really [TS]

  great bit like everybody's wearing [TS]

  orange first he wears the orange like [TS]

  suit i think the suit liner for the over [TS]

  hot pics suit liner because that's what [TS]

  he was wearing but he keeps wearing it [TS]

  and then people start wearing thinking [TS]

  is this thing maybe I need to do it and [TS]

  throughout the book that comment like ya [TS]

  wear this trend come from [TS]

  and then later like hey remember that [TS]

  trend but it's not a friend anymore [TS]

  right [TS]

  that was that I thought that was kind of [TS]

  brilliant plus yes she bakes too so that [TS]

  was a really nice little strange bit in [TS]

  this book but I did like the earth is [TS]

  being redeemed by the moon like this is [TS]

  actually a unique idea that the fact [TS]

  that he had helium-3 isotope that they [TS]

  can recover from the regular and that [TS]

  they were able to be there all the [TS]

  remaining materials they were about the [TS]

  h3 was the UH the thing that Adriana had [TS]

  figured out i mean that's fascinating [TS]

  earth is sort of not is dying is [TS]

  overpopulated things are bad when you I [TS]

  don't can't think of another book in [TS]

  which the moon read teams the earth is [TS]

  redeemed by the moon so this there's [TS]

  this symbiosis I even as people on the [TS]

  moon they're sort of carving out not a [TS]

  society for its own right and there is [TS]

  an aspect of being stranded again [TS]

  there's the two-year period which is I [TS]

  think very well portrayed after that you [TS]

  have too much calcium loss of your bones [TS]

  to change you can't go back till you're [TS]

  doomed you're exiled on this prison ship [TS]

  right or or whatever you want to think [TS]

  of it as and for some people it's always [TS]

  difficult and marinas decision before [TS]

  everything goes to hell that she's like [TS]

  this is too much i'm scared all the time [TS]

  i'm going back [TS]

  that's a fascinating moment as well yeah [TS]

  I i hate to hate to agree with Glenn but [TS]

  let's go [TS]

  she was my favorite character as well [TS]

  and I think about that it was simply [TS]

  because she was are you know a big the [TS]

  character that we were able to look [TS]

  through her eyes in order to to get a [TS]

  handle on what's going on on the moon [TS]

  I mean we we saw the the quarter family [TS]

  before she saw the quarter family so it [TS]

  wasn't like she's our only way in but [TS]

  her reactions to everybody and their [TS]

  reactions to her I think helped humanize [TS]

  the book a little bit for me and made [TS]

  these characters a little bit more a [TS]

  little bit more whole it really did have [TS]

  that soap opera feel I was interested in [TS]

  in Adriana corte as the matriarch of the [TS]

  family she reminded me a little bit of [TS]

  like listen to wahlstrom s the world [TS]

  turns those kind of how I pictured her [TS]

  and and I take I did notice [TS]

  yes that as soon as she was gone from [TS]

  the picture that was when everything [TS]

  toppled and she was clearly the glue [TS]

  that was holding all of this together [TS]

  but that made me sad because I wanted to [TS]

  think that the society could survive at [TS]

  least this family could survive with [TS]

  and a society without her so well i was [TS]

  interested in her story it was clear [TS]

  that she wasn't going to be around at [TS]

  the end of the book so i didn't get [TS]

  terribly invested in her i think the [TS]

  casinos the other character that I had [TS]

  the most fun watching I didn't like him [TS]

  at all at first he just seemed like this [TS]

  shallow obnoxious kid running out but i [TS]

  enjoyed watching him grow up the way you [TS]

  don't enjoy watching characters grow up [TS]

  on soap operas over many years sometimes [TS]

  the actor changes but it's the same [TS]

  characters learning how to be a better [TS]

  or worse person and and i found that fun [TS]

  to watch a play out see that was Luna [TS]

  for me i am I found all of the adults [TS]

  were so boring like they were they were [TS]

  just boring they were i'm going to [TS]

  protect my dynasty and bloggers just [TS]

  like I you're awful stop like you've had [TS]

  no concerns in your life you know [TS]

  whatever and so yeah we have these two [TS]

  characters i'm going to say it's Luna [TS]

  because like she just hopped around the [TS]

  garden whatever she wants to do and [TS]

  they're like yeah she's got hidey-holes [TS]

  and I know a lot of them but I don't [TS]

  know all of them and everyone needs to [TS]

  have their secrets and I'm like yes I [TS]

  love this and you know like the adults [TS]

  are just like oh yeah we're gonna [TS]

  protect our money in our land and I was [TS]

  like good for you you you go do that [TS]

  yeah I was the opposite i was so bored [TS]

  by all of the lunacy inside [TS]

  I don't care about this little kid [TS]

  running around please go back to the [TS]

  family politics I want to find out [TS]

  what's going to happen with you know but [TS]

  that the big court case or the big you [TS]

  know fight that's coming up or whatever [TS]

  it is I i like the grown-ups i guess i'm [TS]

  an old fuddy-duddy it was a good concept [TS]

  that everything on the moon there's no [TS]

  criminal law that is a very clever can [TS]

  and also having just been rewatching the [TS]

  expanse in which everything in space is [TS]

  basically run by companies [TS]

  I mean they're all corporations running [TS]

  the space station that people have [TS]

  essentially no civil rights all their [TS]

  rights are contractual basis like this [TS]

  seems plausible cause i'm watching it [TS]

  play out in different ways like it's [TS]

  very possible to say that there's no [TS]

  crime was only compensation negotiation [TS]

  and enforcement is if you break a [TS]

  contract [TS]

  everyone goes against you in that makes [TS]

  sense but that's part of why my problem [TS]

  with the end of the end of Luna is not [TS]

  just letting it kind of changes nature [TS]

  entirely although again I do like the [TS]

  fact that the shark eyes [TS]

  the foundations of our Empire collapsed [TS]

  like it just her power is keeping all [TS]

  things together and kaboom but is that [TS]

  all the contractual breaking I'm like [TS]

  I'm really going but wherever it [TS]

  according to the court of no longer this [TS]

  is this is an acceptable dollars into a [TS]

  big fight the textbook I i wanted to [TS]

  mention that there's another extended I [TS]

  that this is a much funnier book and the [TS]

  other book right this is this is humor [TS]

  here this isn't it not only is working [TS]

  here is this is lucas inos story funny [TS]

  and I do agree i mean this is a classic [TS]

  generational I mean any kind of [TS]

  generational novel or TV series or movie [TS]

  is going to have this where it's like [TS]

  the elders and their disappointed in the [TS]

  next generation who is trying to live up [TS]

  to their standards and then you got the [TS]

  younger generation which in many ways is [TS]

  the most interesting generation because [TS]

  they don't have they been corrupted baby [TS]

  by the wealth but they also don't have [TS]

  that pressure that the that the second [TS]

  generation has and you see that play [TS]

  here but but some of the jokes are so [TS]

  timed and and and and they go off it [TS]

  takes time for them to play out and when [TS]

  they play out it's great so that the one [TS]

  of the ones that i really liked is is [TS]

  again ariel is introduced and and I [TS]

  thought it was this incredibly annoying [TS]

  writers tick that he keeps describing [TS]

  her also everybody's going fifties I [TS]

  think entire that there's no you which I [TS]

  thought was funny but she's like Audrey [TS]

  Hepburn she's got a long thing but it [TS]

  like a vaping thing but it's like a long [TS]

  cigarette holder like for breakfast at [TS]

  tiffany's or something like that and [TS]

  they keep describing he keeps describing [TS]

  her bringing it out and extending it and [TS]

  all the stuff and and back when i was [TS]

  editing fiction as an amateur in in the [TS]

  nineties i would see stuff like that and [TS]

  be like you just you have nothing to say [TS]

  so you're describing the mechanisms of [TS]

  things like smoking and that's because [TS]

  you have nothing to say you've run out [TS]

  of things to say so i'm thinking like [TS]

  why why you taking time describing that [TS]

  and then later that that that same [TS]

  retractable thing is used as a weapon [TS]

  that is rammed into somebody's what head [TS]

  yeah it's like we're seeing at the whole [TS]

  book it's we're seeing it we're seeing [TS]

  it we're seeing it is funny too low and [TS]

  that was the moment I was like alright [TS]

  you got me good job right it's like you [TS]

  put that in there [TS]

  we were all aware of it yes she's got [TS]

  the little extendable thing and and then [TS]

  it's used as a murder weapon basically [TS]

  or a self-defense weapon and and I [TS]

  believe she then says I got to get [TS]

  another one of those to help and ok that [TS]

  was and I really appreciated that he he [TS]

  played that on me and it just kind of [TS]

  bug me and I'm like why are we seeing [TS]

  this and then there's a payoff actual [TS]

  payoff was like yes that was really [TS]

  funny that that you use that as the as a [TS]

  weapon here so I don't know is also the [TS]

  time bombs planted which I thought if he [TS]

  triggered it was me a one-book novel I [TS]

  don't know how I would've ended like [TS]

  this the thing of the Mackenzies that [TS]

  Carlos Adriana's husband had planted a [TS]

  essentially mutating virus in the heart [TS]

  of the Mackenzies foundry operation the [TS]

  crucible that could go on that that she [TS]

  gave her younger so slightly younger son [TS]

  Lucas has the code and he could trigger [TS]

  at any moment and so much that's not our [TS]

  ways like okay you have everyone's been [TS]

  killed and die but i'm not gonna blow [TS]

  the crystal not yet because I made it [TS]

  and so we have this going to be another [TS]

  book [TS]

  yeah there's gonna be a good boo you [TS]

  know here's the thing it's like when you [TS]

  see the dog in the movie you know the [TS]

  dogs gonna die right they working for [TS]

  the drivers in there they planted it [TS]

  there is no way that crystal is not [TS]

  going to be blown up in the next book [TS]

  for some reason somehow we haven't [TS]

  talked about the psychic computers yet [TS]

  the clairvoyant computer yeah [TS]

  what the why old ones of the wise ones [TS]

  or whatever they are ya government seems [TS]

  to have tapped into it's like we [TS]

  programmed for him so we know we're back [TS]

  door in there [TS]

  yes so where they ever actually [TS]

  predicting anything or was it all just [TS]

  so that was planted by the as a mower [TS]

  whatever-it-is family like I didn't [TS]

  quite get that at the end [TS]

  yeah i'm not sure i'm not sure i know [TS]

  either but i really like that idea that [TS]

  there's the secret cabal also and [TS]

  there's the Eagle who's in charge of the [TS]

  Moon and and they've got the innovative [TS]

  secrets and Oh Ariel is going to be very [TS]

  important which I I expect I expect [TS]

  ariel is going to be I mean I of reading [TS]

  it I was thinking well this is going to [TS]

  pay off and of course there's going to [TS]

  be another book into pay it off but that [TS]

  was my thought was like when they do the [TS]

  prophecy that basically like we see the [TS]

  future and your important in all of the [TS]

  possible futures i suspect that will [TS]

  come to pass that she she's like hiding [TS]

  away at the end of the book up where [TS]

  marina was at the beginning of the book [TS]

  but she's too [TS]

  we're gonna come back and there's a bit [TS]

  at the end where the Eagles the moon [TS]

  where are you know I is it was with her [TS]

  area or someone with him and that and [TS]

  he's basically like me it's like [TS]

  everyone knew his husband was control [TS]

  was pulling the strings it's like no we [TS]

  didn't [TS]

  ok alright i guess that's the twist they [TS]

  did they did actually point to that [TS]

  earlier on but it was only once i [TS]

  believe in oh yeah kind of in passing [TS]

  didn't wanna hang too much on it there's [TS]

  a lot here this is a dense this is a [TS]

  dense book there are a lot of characters [TS]

  i didn't somebody comment before we did [TS]

  this about like any book where there's a [TS]

  list of characters at the beginning [TS]

  which I don't let you know I don't read [TS]

  the maps I ready to those are reference [TS]

  when you're reading like who is this you [TS]

  can look it up and I don't but I [TS]

  occasionally looking at map it was me i [TS]

  was cracking up because I was like okay [TS]

  I'm opening the book and they're like [TS]

  seven pages of families and names and [TS]

  there's a map and I was like alright but [TS]

  in the end it was like a Russian but you [TS]

  don't really need it you know almost I [TS]

  almost didn't use it at all but every [TS]

  once in a while I would put back just to [TS]

  make sure [TS]

  actually I think I might use the [TS]

  glossary a little bit much to make sure [TS]

  I knew the the terms but I was I was [TS]

  actually able to keep track of the [TS]

  characters and their names and stuff and [TS]

  I mean we keep talking about Ariel [TS]

  actually she was one of the characters [TS]

  that I like the best night [TS]

  I'm always drawn to a woman in a book [TS]

  who really as we said just doesn't seem [TS]

  to need anybody else who is it is going [TS]

  her own way and I enjoyed that even when [TS]

  I didn't particularly enjoy her attitude [TS]

  or you know what exactly what she was [TS]

  doing was still sort of liked the fact [TS]

  of her and the other one that I quite [TS]

  liked in the book who didn't have a very [TS]

  big part was a Luca asthma who is Rafa's [TS]

  second wife the one that was actually in [TS]

  love with and I love the fact that they [TS]

  enjoy the beginning of the book when she [TS]

  still living with the quarters they [TS]

  somewhat sideways accuse her of sending [TS]

  in the fly that's supposed to be the you [TS]

  know what the US and flied us and and [TS]

  because of that she's like I love you [TS]

  and I want to be here with our daughter [TS]

  but i am not trusted and I just I feel [TS]

  like I can't stay so she goes away and [TS]

  it's this tragic thing where they [TS]

  actually do want to be together and they [TS]

  want to see each other but she can't and [TS]

  and I thought that was really cool [TS]

  yeah it's a interesting book [TS]

  I liked I'll i definitely liked it more [TS]

  than Aurora yes I you know I i enjoyed [TS]

  reading it i will i will read the next [TS]

  to the the continuation of it I i really [TS]

  enjoyed the world and how was portrayed [TS]

  and the writing in it i really enjoyed [TS]

  too so you know I didn't look at the map [TS]

  but I i did you know or the glossary but [TS]

  it was a no it was not necessary for my [TS]

  enjoyment i looked at the map for a [TS]

  second realized it wasn't going to help [TS]

  me at all and then it's a moon that [TS]

  whatever moon is on the moon [TS]

  what do you need to know what will tell [TS]

  me how long it takes to get from point A [TS]

  to point B that's good enough for me [TS]

  I gotta letters one little backstory [TS]

  thing with the marina i love that she [TS]

  grew up in this totally with household [TS]

  and whatever I just like that her [TS]

  familiar her little la AI think her [TS]

  shoulders called heavy telly looks like [TS]

  an orca yeah maybe the Orca that is [TS]

  that's his extrapolation of smartphones [TS]

  and on the moon is that there are these [TS]

  little avatars that live on your on your [TS]

  shoulder and everybody sees them sort of [TS]

  content consensually but then you go to [TS]

  certain meetings and you have to leave [TS]

  your stuff behind and turn it all off I [TS]

  want one of those like I can't wait for [TS]

  that future to get here i think that [TS]

  would be fantastic to get a little uh [TS]

  you could do a little creature that sits [TS]

  on your yeah you don't have to carry [TS]

  anything around and then you have this [TS]

  cute little creature that you can buy [TS]

  different skins for and you can change [TS]

  it you can make it look like an orca or [TS]

  a little silver ball with wings or [TS]

  whatever you want i want that I hope [TS]

  they're easier to keep a lifetime [TS]

  tamagushi ever was [TS]

  good point muscat were you surprised by [TS]

  our reactions to these books i am never [TS]

  surprised but looks great i'm not [TS]

  surprised you said that [TS]

  well I'm and so I think that one truth [TS]

  that I hold very dearly is that all [TS]

  opinions are subjective so I think these [TS]

  books are very good i am more than open [TS]

  to the fact that's just my opinion and [TS]

  that other people comment things in [TS]

  different ways and that is fine as well [TS]

  and I learn more hearing about other [TS]

  people talk about the books and their [TS]

  experiences which are very different [TS]

  than mine and it makes me enjoy the book [TS]

  all the more so I say I appreciate it [TS]

  all and I'm sorry that you had to read [TS]

  Aurora but I selected [TS]

  all right before we go I would like to [TS]

  very quickly ask if you have any other [TS]

  books that you've read recently that you [TS]

  would like to mention now would be a [TS]

  good time it's what we call what are you [TS]

  reading scott what are you reading [TS]

  what am I reading right now or are you [TS]

  know what that you've reached things [TS]

  that you've read lately that you would [TS]

  like things about instead it's more of a [TS]

  catchy [TS]

  it's not what are you reading not [TS]

  entirely accurate but very catchy so [TS]

  that's why I'm saying [TS]

  Scott what are you reading in the past [TS]

  what have you read the sky yes [TS]

  what are you reading lately hard what [TS]

  did I i have read so the edgar award [TS]

  nominees came out so i read a couple of [TS]

  mystery books a woman with a blue pencil [TS]

  I enjoyed very much is it about a copy [TS]

  editor [TS]

  uh-huh it is well it is kind of it's [TS]

  about a character in the book is writing [TS]

  the book and the editor that he's [TS]

  talking to is changing the book is the [TS]

  book is going a lot huh [TS]

  oh and mystery so read that I like to do [TS]

  is very short as well so if you don't [TS]

  like it it won't be that long i also [TS]

  enjoy another metafiction kind of thing [TS]

  I like David Mitchell he wrote Cloud [TS]

  Atlas he wrote the bone clocks which I [TS]

  enjoyed very much and apparently he [TS]

  wrote so much in the universe of the [TS]

  bone clocks that he came out with a [TS]

  little novel called slate house which is [TS]

  basically a haunted house tail that's [TS]

  very good and also very short again and [TS]

  I read the latest usual book gentlemen [TS]

  joel and the Red Queen which I enjoyed [TS]

  but as I was talking to Dan and Jason in [TS]

  slack i spent the entire book waiting [TS]

  for something to happen and nothing [TS]

  really happened but i still really [TS]

  enjoyed accurate I Glenn what are you [TS]

  reading [TS]

  well i like to call recommendations from [TS]

  the incomparable no I'm recycling ones i [TS]

  finally got to read i'm actually finally [TS]

  catching up my children old enough I'll [TS]

  just enough spare time to be staying [TS]

  almost contemporary with some things or [TS]

  a year or two behind only and I read the [TS]

  god Emperor which was discussed and I [TS]

  give you my numbers in capital 251 and [TS]

  256 and I i really i adored it I thought [TS]

  I was I loved it throughout I thought a [TS]

  great characters great development it [TS]

  was you know story of the youth becoming [TS]

  older so it had [TS]

  dumb you know this whatever you call [TS]

  that a juvenile novel but whatever it is [TS]

  and really terrific and I was dying for [TS]

  the next book and then I find no there's [TS]

  just this one yeah can we convince her [TS]

  to write another one cuz it's a great [TS]

  for this wonderful world is very self [TS]

  consistent but I also understand it it [TS]

  works on its own [TS]

  well there's a lot of in that sensor is [TS]

  a lot of exposition in court stuff to [TS]

  learn for no pay off in the future [TS]

  volumes so I was slightly disappointed [TS]

  by that but i really enjoyed it [TS]

  I'm catching up the experience that I [TS]

  mentioned which and i just bought copies [TS]

  I i read the first in that series and i [TS]

  had not read was a license wake the lion [TS]

  wakes libraries week sorry always [TS]

  thinking about the whale leaving a wake [TS]

  behind in night and tonight away i'll [TS]

  just woke up and i bought the next three [TS]

  books in the series and used form sorry [TS]

  about royalties I and i'm going to get [TS]

  around finally reading the market which [TS]

  I cared for a good on Ricky ketchup [TS]

  that's my guess what will go and be [TS]

  reading and look what we're going to [TS]

  have visited little brat but Karen [TS]

  Campbell that what are you reading [TS]

  I haven't been reading as much as I [TS]

  would like because it's mostly been job [TS]

  hunting [TS]

  um also I was preparing for the [TS]

  Gallifrey one convention so i spent some [TS]

  time reading all of the Titan run of the [TS]

  Doctor Who comics with the exception of [TS]

  Paul Cornell's for doctors because i had [TS]

  just read that and remembered it because [TS]

  i did a panel on those and they were [TS]

  great once again most of it was a reread [TS]

  so if you like comics and Doctor Who [TS]

  highly recommend the Titan Books i have [TS]

  also been reading Julian maze the [TS]

  many-colored land for a and as yet [TS]

  unannounced project that's coming up but [TS]

  we do need to work [TS]

  yep interesting yes and the other thing [TS]

  that i've been reading is as usual on [TS]

  candy magazine which I which I work for [TS]

  so you know [TS]

  full disclosure there but an issue 8 [TS]

  that came out most recently there were a [TS]

  couple stories that I just loved one was [TS]

  called the creeping women by Christopher [TS]

  barzak which is a retelling of the [TS]

  yellow wallpaper which is a well-known [TS]

  feminist short story and then there's [TS]

  this just delightful tale called the [TS]

  desert glass maker and the jeweler of [TS]

  bari-bar by rosenberg and if you are [TS]

  feeling a little down and you just need [TS]

  a little bit of joy and and up [TS]

  lift in your life i can't recommend that [TS]

  story enough it was just beautiful [TS]

  so yeah check out on candy magazine [TS]

  alright allene what are you reading I [TS]

  don't know yet but i can tell you some [TS]

  cool things that i've read and so my [TS]

  friends [TS]

  k tempest bradford is a science fiction [TS]

  writer and she has this thing she calls [TS]

  the tiny tempest challenge which is four [TS]

  for a year is her official challenge I [TS]

  don't know how long I'm gonna do but I'm [TS]

  only reading books by people who are [TS]

  societally marginalized so people who [TS]

  are members of the LGBTQ AIP community [TS]

  women people of color that anything and [TS]

  so outside of things that I'm reading [TS]

  like for the incomparable that's what [TS]

  all of my reading falls into lately so I [TS]

  to recently read the Goblin Emperor and [TS]

  I didn't like it as much as everyone [TS]

  else did but I was happy to have read it [TS]

  and I'm one book that i've read a couple [TS]

  months ago was sorcery to the crown by [TS]

  xin cho and it's actually the first of a [TS]

  series in this kind of fantastical world [TS]

  where magic is real i think it's [TS]

  probably like eight late eighteen [TS]

  hundreds early nineteen hundreds England [TS]

  that it takes place in and about how [TS]

  magical people and non-magical people [TS]

  can interact and and what laws and [TS]

  regulations around that sounds really [TS]

  boring i didn't like it for the first [TS]

  half and at the end I was like I want [TS]

  more of this so i really really [TS]

  recommend that one that has been on my [TS]

  to-read list for a while I keep hearing [TS]

  good things so i bought it but i haven't [TS]

  read it [TS]

  yeah I liked it a lot it's good Scott [TS]

  comes up i have read it I liked it [TS]

  yeah alright i have i've been reading i [TS]

  also read gentlemen Joel in the red [TS]

  queen by lois mcmaster bujold the latest [TS]

  of the four coskun books i agree with [TS]

  Scott kinda nothing happens in it the [TS]

  fact is it's the kind of book you're [TS]

  right when you've got a 16 book series [TS]

  and you've built up so much history with [TS]

  seriously so much history with so many [TS]

  of these characters the lead character [TS]

  in this book is Cordelia she was the [TS]

  lead character in chronologically the [TS]

  first two books in the series [TS]

  she was a fairly young woman she was [TS]

  what I like 25 or 30 and that in those [TS]

  books she is now 75 [TS]

  uh it it connects you know and uses your [TS]

  knowledge of the setting of those books [TS]

  and the characters and their family [TS]

  histories you mourn for characters who [TS]

  have died you know and yet nothing [TS]

  happens except like a sort of alien bee [TS]

  attack at one point that is not that [TS]

  dramatic ok but on another level on [TS]

  another level a lot of things happen [TS]

  because it is like a romance so it's [TS]

  about it's about two people who are [TS]

  grieving for a death and then [TS]

  discovering themselves you know together [TS]

  a connection between the two grieving [TS]

  people that i think is a very nice and [TS]

  it talks that you know there's there's [TS]

  some social commentary it goes across [TS]

  some boundaries that I'm sure will work [TS]

  some readers but i thought was [TS]

  challenging and interesting in its [TS]

  discussion of a variety of sexualities [TS]

  and and the polyamory as well i thought [TS]

  it's a really yeah i-i-i thought it was [TS]

  great and nothing happens in it [TS]

  Scott's exactly right it's just life [TS]

  happening for characters you've known [TS]

  for a long time and you get to see them [TS]

  again and it gave me a kind of happy [TS]

  feeling reading it which is all you can [TS]

  ask for anything to happen but it's not [TS]

  the the greed of our kousaka novel and [TS]

  you think big set action said yeah you [TS]

  don't think it's going to be like a [TS]

  space battle or a gun fight or something [TS]

  like that and really there the bee [TS]

  attack is the most dramatic thing that [TS]

  happens it's a small intimate story is [TS]

  very well done and but I think Jason and [TS]

  i were talking and this is not the place [TS]

  that you should jump new and more ghosts [TS]

  consultant know if you haven't read the [TS]

  other 15 books don't read this don't [TS]

  know it agreed for one of the four was [TS]

  Hugo i read a standalone one because [TS]

  it's sort of often a separate planet [TS]

  right I thought that was great work very [TS]

  well for me yeah but I i was one it's a [TS]

  great it's fantastic here I I mean Dan [TS]

  Moore and recommended like four years [TS]

  ago and I went and I ripped through like [TS]

  12 or 13 books in a very short amount of [TS]

  time and there they are not all good but [TS]

  they are mostly very good and if you can [TS]

  pick up the cornelius honor [TS]

  it's like a 2-pack it's the first two [TS]

  books in the series chronologically and [TS]

  you can get that sometimes you get there [TS]

  really cheap it's a it's a great place [TS]

  to start and a lot [TS]

  fun so that was good and then I i I'm [TS]

  halfway through grace of kings by ken [TS]

  loo which a lot of people like and I [TS]

  just I'm not hacking it and it's [TS]

  nominated for a nebula award and I don't [TS]

  know it it's not working for me it's [TS]

  very mythical and interesting in that [TS]

  sort of fantasy setting it's about a [TS]

  rebellion against an evil emperor who [TS]

  will the Emperor I think it's like the [TS]

  Emperor dies but he has set this Empire [TS]

  up which previously the states that all [TS]

  been independent states and now there is [TS]

  a revolt and there are lots of [TS]

  characters many of whom come and go and [TS]

  then there are lots of these sort of set [TS]

  pieces where their naval battles where [TS]

  that the whole bunch of things going on [TS]

  that have never been established before [TS]

  that are told kind of in shorthand so [TS]

  you have like the the plot slows down [TS]

  and you've got detail with characters [TS]

  and then suddenly it speeds up and you [TS]

  just got things tossed off and it's very [TS]

  frustrating so i don't know if i'm going [TS]

  to finish it or not it's a shame because [TS]

  it is is highly thought of by a lot of [TS]

  people but I'm finding it kind of hard [TS]

  to hack very interesting a book club [TS]

  sodas books we couldn't finish a finish [TS]

  book club chef i skim to the last fifty [TS]

  percent but club [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I read the wikipedia page [TS]

  here yeah yeah it's this group index [TS]

  part 2i like grace of keys [TS]

  yes well its got enjoy how embracing [TS]

  your of things is very nice and and yeah [TS]

  i would i would say more positivity [TS]

  about Luna colon new moon you should [TS]

  know going in that it is half of a book [TS]

  it tells a good story but it is did the [TS]

  story will continue its half of a story [TS]

  is a full book i'm more positive after [TS]

  we talked about it actually felt more [TS]

  negative better before we start talking [TS]

  about like you know there's a lot of [TS]

  good points and i think i'm mostly [TS]

  frustrated about where the narrative is [TS]

  are more so frustrated than necessary [TS]

  that the storytelling some glad we had [TS]

  this conversation sometimes it's good to [TS]

  be it sometimes a good it's good to know [TS]

  what you're getting into as opposed to [TS]

  bad going in completely i think going in [TS]

  completely blank if somebody had told me [TS]

  that aurora was about a completely [TS]

  failed you know it's basically this is [TS]

  about why generation ships are a bad [TS]

  idea i would have been a much better [TS]

  place mentally for what I got than being [TS]

  than having no expectations [TS]

  and Luna Luna I would have felt better [TS]

  about the ending if I'd known it was [TS]

  essentially like blackout and all clear [TS]

  really sort of you know once a half of a [TS]

  story [TS]

  whoo yeah I could picture myself getting [TS]

  into over i mean i think about myself i [TS]

  like watching documentaries about awful [TS]

  things that happened so and going into [TS]

  those you know that they end poorly [TS]

  I think maybe I could have enjoyed it in [TS]

  somewhat the same way if I would have [TS]

  known [TS]

  imagine a cosmos like sequence from the [TS]

  new series of just that orbital [TS]

  mechanics part was really brilliant and [TS]

  interesting the ship started to lose its [TS]

  mind a little bit and it's taxing its [TS]

  abilities it's kind of a cool scene [TS]

  accepted Scott stray too much [TS]

  information but it's kind of it's a [TS]

  really interesting vignette out of this [TS]

  whole thing which not very much happens [TS]

  for long periods of time [TS]

  all right well we're gonna close up the [TS]

  book club for now but I'm glad we got [TS]

  back to it we'll have to keep our eye [TS]

  out for some more current ish books to [TS]

  review on a future edition of the book [TS]

  club and yes perhaps there are other [TS]

  book related things coming from the [TS]

  incomparable it had a teaser it could [TS]

  happen well you know the number one [TS]

  reason to promote it actually has to [TS]

  happen [TS]

  yep so let's say anything that's right [TS]

  or it may be the biggest tease hotel [TS]

  like it might never happen we'll see [TS]

  people have to read the books and record [TS]

  the podcast and then we'll we'll find [TS]

  out but until then i would like to thank [TS]

  my book club or use because you got [TS]

  through the books you read the books or [TS]

  at least to skim the books and that is [TS]

  but reading the books is half the battle [TS]

  I don't know what the other half is [TS]

  recording the podcast is the other half [TS]

  Glenn fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

  here [TS]

  a pleasure and thank you Eric and sign [TS]

  thank you very much thank you Colleen [TS]

  sims I'm glad you got through it you had [TS]

  to fight but you got through it I did it [TS]

  and Scott McNulty thank you as always [TS]

  for being part of the book club and [TS]

  first suggesting the books i always feel [TS]

  slightly guilty suggesting looks but I'm [TS]

  glad you keeping buddy but somebody's [TS]

  gotta do it someone's gonna read the [TS]

  books and it's you and thanks everybody [TS]

  for listening to be uncomfortable and we [TS]

  will see you again next week goodbye [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  [Music] [TS]