The Incomparable

290: Team Bucket

 

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  code smell the incomparable number 290 [TS]

  mar 2016 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to be [TS]

  uncomfortable on your hostess and smell [TS]

  and we're going to open up the video [TS]

  game Dusty covers of the video game club [TS]

  which doesn't get to work out that often [TS]

  but they're back to talk about it [TS]

  recently released the game probably fire [TS]

  watch from campo santo and published by [TS]

  Panik available for Windows OS 10 linux [TS]

  and if you get a ps4 it will work on [TS]

  their to joining me to talk about this [TS]

  recent release video game which I so [TS]

  rarely play but i did this time it's [TS]

  very exciting are my panelists fine [TS]

  group all brian hamilton hello [TS]

  wait we're not here to play wizards in [TS]

  wyvern's I wait for it [TS]

  Tiffany arms is back to talk more video [TS]

  games hello hi it's good to have you [TS]

  serenity Caldwell's out there [TS]

  hello hello hello it's the ghost of [TS]

  serenity called my flu racked ghost but [TS]

  she's and I'm trying to imitate what it [TS]

  might sound like coming through [TS]

  walkie-talkie oh nice Tony sindelar is [TS]

  scanning the forest hi Tony high and [TS]

  John siracusa of course because we're [TS]

  talking about video games i'm glad i [TS]

  don't see any progress bar counting down [TS]

  when i'm asked to reply on the show [TS]

  wait you don't see that it's there it's [TS]

  in mind it's in my mind the the why is [TS]

  my answer will move on i have I want to [TS]

  start this bob so that this is [TS]

  interesting I guess disclosure here is [TS]

  many of us know the people at Panik who [TS]

  published this game although i don't [TS]

  know anybody at campo santo who produced [TS]

  it and i really only saw a preview of it [TS]

  XOXO last fall but uh that's all really [TS]

  I knew about it and I played a couple [TS]

  weeks ago I my only other bit of [TS]

  disclosure if this is an opening [TS]

  statement so be it is when i was i just [TS]

  graduated from college in 1992 i worked [TS]

  for the summer at my local newspaper [TS]

  back home and one of the stories that i [TS]

  wrote was about a guy named herb who was [TS]

  a fire spotter and he lived for the [TS]

  summer in a single room platform at the [TS]

  top of a mountain and look for smoke [TS]

  from forest fires and radioed them in [TS]

  I went out to the to the fire tower and [TS]

  interviewed him and so to see a game [TS]

  based on that premise is sort of tickled [TS]

  me and i can say that it pretty much [TS]

  jobs with my my memory of his fire tower [TS]

  the setting of the fire tower and fire [TS]

  watch so yeah I got I got kind of a kick [TS]

  out of it [TS]

  it wasn't a two-day hike to get there [TS]

  which is part of the plot of a Firewatch [TS]

  so so far watches a it's a it's a game [TS]

  where you are you're Henry who too is [TS]

  working in Wyoming in the National [TS]

  Forest as a fire spotter so he has got [TS]

  his he takes a two day hike and goes to [TS]

  this tower where he can overlook the [TS]

  forest and he can see off to another [TS]

  Ridge where there's another tower in [TS]

  which is Delilah who is another person [TS]

  working at sapphire spotter and she sort [TS]

  of his manager and then we have a sort [TS]

  of adventure and discussion and [TS]

  flashbacks of hit of what has brought [TS]

  Henry to this point and that is what [TS]

  Firewatch is all about [TS]

  I so love what would people think i'm [TS]

  gonna start here [TS]

  Firewatch opens with an interesting [TS]

  structure where you are sort of in a [TS]

  series of flashbacks about how you get [TS]

  to the lookout and it's not sort of just [TS]

  a prologue that gets you there but a [TS]

  series of choices you've got to make and [TS]

  they're kind of interlaced with arriving [TS]

  in the in the forest and i'm curious [TS]

  what everybody thought about the way [TS]

  that the story starts it is incredibly [TS]

  cinematic especially because it [TS]

  completely breaks that the expectation [TS]

  that this is going to be you know that [TS]

  kind of cinematic game with those with [TS]

  those text adventure bits we get to [TS]

  choose what you say in the bar and we [TS]

  say on the balcony and things like that [TS]

  and then goes back to these beautifully [TS]

  faded in faded out moments they are [TS]

  timed perfectly [TS]

  it feels this is the most playable [TS]

  movie-style game ever played that's [TS]

  different than a lot of the [TS]

  the games that use the same mechanics [TS]

  where they will be text on the screen [TS]

  and you have a series of choices very [TS]

  early on in the intro sequence which by [TS]

  the way is not really what the rest of [TS]

  the game is like it yeah we're like a [TS]

  pre credits type sequence where they [TS]

  make your picture is is it becomes clear [TS]

  if you've played a lot of these [TS]

  adventures that this is mostly not going [TS]

  to be one of those games where they [TS]

  present you with the series of choices [TS]

  and based on your choices you are [TS]

  defining your character very early on [TS]

  they force you to make a series of [TS]

  choices [TS]

  none of which certainly some bad choices [TS]

  the corner corner code good choices you [TS]

  because that's the type of game you can [TS]

  play a lot of a lot of games that are [TS]

  like they give you a range of choices [TS]

  where you can decide what kind of person [TS]

  you want to be but this game is [TS]

  different this game has an idea of who [TS]

  this character is or needs to be for the [TS]

  purposes of the story and you are forced [TS]

  to essentially choose from several what [TS]

  you might consider bad choices which [TS]

  isn't necessarily a bad thing but it [TS]

  definitely frames this game is even [TS]

  though it has the trappings of the you [TS]

  know sort of that the tell-tale style [TS]

  games like The Walking Dead or whatever [TS]

  where you're expecting someone to say [TS]

  you know you know Kerry will remember [TS]

  this or whatever I this is more like you [TS]

  are the person saying that you'll [TS]

  remember this because although there are [TS]

  many different choices there [TS]

  this is not a role-playing game you [TS]

  don't get to define Henry Henry is a [TS]

  person you have to sort of inhabit him [TS]

  for the course of the game also in all [TS]

  of my playthroughs none of the different [TS]

  choices you make really affect anything [TS]

  in the long run just how you relate to [TS]

  Henry and Delilah and I i think the [TS]

  opening I think Johnny said I really [TS]

  well in terms of you inhabit him and I [TS]

  thought the opening did a really great [TS]

  job of like placing you inside of him [TS]

  pretty quickly and pretty efficiently [TS]

  and elegantly thoroughly I have to say [TS]

  something about that CSI i'm really [TS]

  curious how serenity you feel about it [TS]

  too in that when i started playing this [TS]

  game I had a really hard time connecting [TS]

  to it because it's such a personal [TS]

  emotional embodiment of the game and I i [TS]

  guess as like a woman playing this game [TS]

  I couldn't get into it as much because I [TS]

  felt already like this game wasn't [TS]

  supposed to be made for me a little bit [TS]

  because of I'm not Henry know what i [TS]

  mean like i didn't i didn't feel the [TS]

  same way Henry was failing are doing the [TS]

  same thing Henry was doing because I did [TS]

  I just felt like I don't [TS]

  I I relate more when I can play as a [TS]

  female character and I think that a game [TS]

  specifically like this where it is so [TS]

  personal and it's so emotional and it's [TS]

  so specific to you are as you guys said [TS]

  like embodied inside of Henry I felt [TS]

  disconnected from that and so that but [TS]

  you know that bothered me a little bit [TS]

  when i played this videogame the second [TS]

  time i was able to kind of like let that [TS]

  go a little bit more but it's still it [TS]

  you know guys don't have to you know [TS]

  when you see a game like this you don't [TS]

  have to worry about is this game made [TS]

  for me because it is and you don't have [TS]

  to think like that you're gonna feel [TS]

  differently about the character because [TS]

  it just is made for you so I don't know [TS]

  I I had a little bit of a hard time [TS]

  connecting ya know I i definitely agree [TS]

  with you in the beginning especially [TS]

  those sort of initial us as well as [TS]

  you're describing very cinematic scenes [TS]

  to me it it there was a little bit of a [TS]

  disconnect from it because yeah it's [TS]

  it's very hard to be like yes I am a [TS]

  late twenties college dude who drinks a [TS]

  lot [TS]

  and these are my motivations and this is [TS]

  whom like it takes it took a little bit [TS]

  for me to not only get the character but [TS]

  to feel like I could uh huh [TS]

  actually i'll be honest like there are [TS]

  parts of me that identify with Henry [TS]

  throughout the game but the reports to [TS]

  me that we're still like you stupid [TS]

  idiot [TS]

  what are you doing why are you saying [TS]

  these things why don't you get that this [TS]

  is a code that your supervisors like [TS]

  there's so many so many things in this [TS]

  game where I'm just like oh my god [TS]

  you're just your lug your lovable lug [TS]

  but all gosh yeah like when they ask how [TS]

  do you pose you know and you're like oh [TS]

  do you pose like you're frolicking [TS]

  Victoria's Secret her you're a macho man [TS]

  and i looked at Marco because my husband [TS]

  who was you know watching me play while [TS]

  I was playing the game and I'm like I [TS]

  don't know which one do you want to do [TS]

  was like I'd like there were a couple [TS]

  questions in the very beginning to like [TS]

  set the tone of the game and I like turn [TS]

  to him like i don't know i don't know i [TS]

  was able to pick the dog you know I'm [TS]

  like I'm not a jerk i'm totally picking [TS]

  bucket every time that's what she wants [TS]

  like of course you can be a jerk here [TS]

  but this [TS]

  that is the correct answer everyone [TS]

  playing role on Team bucket right [TS]

  oh yeah yes you better bust well you [TS]

  know the gender angle does make it [TS]

  easier for guys to relate because at [TS]

  least they have a fighting chance so [TS]

  maybe you knew somebody was like this [TS]

  maybe you can relate to be if you're [TS]

  married you can relate to being married [TS]

  to trying to pick up a woman at a bar [TS]

  when you're drunk or something like that [TS]

  but like i said in the beginning even [TS]

  four guys the game forces you to realize [TS]

  you are not playing as yourself you are [TS]

  being asked to inhabit this character [TS]

  this character that makes bad choices [TS]

  and that yeah you're only given the [TS]

  choice is your given number the ones you [TS]

  feel like these are the choices i would [TS]

  make sure you have to it's kinda like [TS]

  when you're reading a book and the main [TS]

  character is something like to share [TS]

  right what it was like you're really [TS]

  just a regular novel in the main [TS]

  characters nothing like you you have to [TS]

  the good book will say well even those [TS]

  characters nothing like me and does make [TS]

  decisions that I would never make [TS]

  because the the protagonist and if the [TS]

  author does a good job you can end up [TS]

  relating to them and it's kind of like a [TS]

  life is strange is it not business a [TS]

  similar game to fire watch your life is [TS]

  stranger ask the players as a you know a [TS]

  young teenage girl a lot of games are [TS]

  like that in the day they ask you to be [TS]

  somebody you're not and it's a different [TS]

  kind of game where you have to accept [TS]

  that it is not a role-playing game and [TS]

  you don't get to define the character [TS]

  you just get to I mean you got home late [TS]

  for example I mean I did I diet you can [TS]

  I relate to the experiences of a you [TS]

  know a young lesbian teenager and gone [TS]

  home [TS]

  no but if you you know eventually you [TS]

  switch your mindset and say alright this [TS]

  is not me this is this character and I'm [TS]

  sort of being within I don't know it [TS]

  happening is one more because you are [TS]

  animating them and you are making [TS]

  choices [TS]

  it's kind of like role playing in the [TS]

  dnd sense where you are assigned a [TS]

  character and you have to be a gruff [TS]

  dwarf and even if you're not a gruff [TS]

  kind of person you feel like well time [TS]

  to pretend I'm a graft war right because [TS]

  that's this character or whatever and [TS]

  you can get in that way [TS]

  yeah but I mean that's but this is like [TS]

  a very personal character you know he's [TS]

  a person he's making choices he's doing [TS]

  things like and I think of me to say [TS]

  that the writing and everything was [TS]

  really great that eventually you know i [TS]

  was able to let that go and be like okay [TS]

  I'm playing as Harry I will Harry that's [TS]

  what I thought I always kept thinking [TS]

  was Harry from haha madman like I'm just [TS]

  making carries choices like that's all [TS]

  I'm doing well I could have done [TS]

  I version where you got to pick the [TS]

  gender of the care oh yeah i mean i [TS]

  understand they put so much time and [TS]

  extra stuff more acid so much time into [TS]

  the voice actor yeah you don't get to [TS]

  change what happens in the game because [TS]

  money because yeah but going back to [TS]

  what you were saying about character [TS]

  John because that was that was what [TS]

  invention we sort of made me embrace the [TS]

  the game as as uncomfortable as I felt a [TS]

  sort of the initial few minutes I it [TS]

  reminds me a lot of what i used to do as [TS]

  a kid actually as a kid in the woods [TS]

  where I would read books on and then you [TS]

  know you would you you have the book the [TS]

  story that's in the book and then [TS]

  occasionally you go and you you take the [TS]

  character out of the book and you say oh [TS]

  you know like I wonder what would happen [TS]

  if Luke's got like it looks guy Walker [TS]

  was in the middle of the woods I wonder [TS]

  what he was decisions you would make I [TS]

  want you know when you start it's almost [TS]

  like developing a character for your own [TS]

  book in and in each like putting some of [TS]

  your own voice into a predetermined [TS]

  character and playing with them outside [TS]

  the constraints of a traditional story [TS]

  and it's kind of weird way of describing [TS]

  how i felt about this game but but in [TS]

  some ways it was very much like okay I'm [TS]

  taking somebody else's character this is [TS]

  not a character I would have ever [TS]

  written but as a writer [TS]

  it was really interesting to me to play [TS]

  this game and think about that think [TS]

  about his decisions in his choices as [TS]

  like I am painting the future of Henry [TS]

  the character of you know I have a Harry [TS]

  crane in the nineteen eighties as a is a [TS]

  slightly level slightly doofus in the in [TS]

  the middle of the woods and part of it [TS]

  is you know how what how would you react [TS]

  but moreover i felt more and more like [TS]

  this person is not is never going to be [TS]

  me but i can i can roleplay as this [TS]

  character you'd like you were saying i [TS]

  can i can inhabit this character and and [TS]

  play within them [TS]

  what makes this game so incredible is [TS]

  that it tricks you into thinking you're [TS]

  the one that's driving all the action [TS]

  because everything is already written [TS]

  all the dialogue is already recorded all [TS]

  you're doing is just pushing wasd to [TS]

  move around and make everything moved [TS]

  forward so the fact that the writing can [TS]

  suck you into thinking that you are the [TS]

  actual one cream [TS]

  reading this story like a Firewatch was [TS]

  a short story or a movie would probably [TS]

  be pretty good but it would be nowhere [TS]

  near as effective as if you were the one [TS]

  actually wandering through the woods and [TS]

  digging things up and putting out fires [TS]

  and look Skywalker in the woods angle [TS]

  the the part that is extra difficult [TS]

  about this is when you play as another [TS]

  character even and gone home or life is [TS]

  strange or something in general the [TS]

  protagonist is admirable or heroic or [TS]

  even if they make choices you wouldn't [TS]

  make it usually because they're more [TS]

  brave than you are or you know like that [TS]

  that there's a hero to the story [TS]

  whereas right off the bat in this one [TS]

  the protagonist in the story which you [TS]

  are being asked to play you kind of feel [TS]

  like I'm better than this guy [TS]

  I mean she not like you just a force you [TS]

  to select among bad choices and things [TS]

  turn badly and by the time you end up in [TS]

  that fire watch station you kind of [TS]

  think of this guy you mean I think [TS]

  you're in the place the game want you to [TS]

  be like this guy's life is a mess and [TS]

  it's his own fault i think you're [TS]

  supposed to be like uncomfortable like [TS]

  planned very right likelike it'sit's [TS]

  very intentional like bad things happen [TS]

  to him and he didn't handle them well [TS]

  and you for what you didn't handle it [TS]

  well because the only two choices you [TS]

  ever given all the choices was like bad [TS]

  and bad again the dog choice was the [TS]

  only easy one [TS]

  they're at and and really the dog prices [TS]

  only easy for us because we're a bunch [TS]

  of softies right but someone else's [TS]

  somewhere is going like obviously picked [TS]

  the german shepherd but anyway like it [TS]

  you end up there trying to put you into [TS]

  place you're never going to feel like [TS]

  unless you had something like Henry had [TS]

  happened to him worse his wife gets [TS]

  everything we do is spoil her already [TS]

  I know but there are things were going [TS]

  to fire the spoiler off for but the [TS]

  essentially the prologue of the story [TS]

  you shouldn't be listening to this [TS]

  podcast if you want to go into it cold [TS]

  so i'm not gonna find a spoiler one-off [TS]

  I'm just gonna say we're gonna talk [TS]

  about the setup of the story and feel [TS]

  free about it [TS]

  alright so his wife has dementia and it [TS]

  actually putting home if my status [TS]

  happened to you can never be in that [TS]

  headspace the closest the game can get [TS]

  is to essentially make you participate [TS]

  in a series of bad choices leading up to [TS]

  him being away from his wife and you [TS]

  should feel bad about it because you [TS]

  know if it was just you don't have any [TS]

  choices you'd say this guy's away from [TS]

  his wife and i feel i look down on him [TS]

  for that but because you were forced to [TS]

  pick left to ride your be a whole bunch [TS]

  of times you have a little bit of I feel [TS]

  bad because I did that and especially on [TS]

  the first playthrough you're like maybe [TS]

  one of the other choices I didn't pick [TS]

  would have led to a better dialogue tree [TS]

  I mean and and that would have led to a [TS]

  situation where I don't feel quite as [TS]

  bad but that's what they want you to be [TS]

  once you get into the station they want [TS]

  you to be disoriented kind of feeling a [TS]

  little bit guilty not sure what's what [TS]

  still thinking about that whole prologue [TS]

  sequence and then being thrust into you [TS]

  know Delilah squawking at you over the [TS]

  radio to go [TS]

  what's this all about what is also doing [TS]

  fire right now I i think if it is and it [TS]

  i assume it is a creative decision to [TS]

  make you it uncomfortable and give you [TS]

  actually some sort of remove from Henry [TS]

  over you know you're like you're [TS]

  operating him but you're almost like a [TS]

  dissenter while your hot friend you're [TS]

  like all right well I'll play this guy [TS]

  but only under protest because that's [TS]

  definitely how I felt and I didn't have [TS]

  a problem with that I felt like I [TS]

  certainly would have been more [TS]

  comfortable being shown a prologue that [TS]

  says this guy's messed up and now you [TS]

  get to steer him as opposed to what what [TS]

  Firewatch does which is makes you [TS]

  complicit in his screw-ups that you [TS]

  can't it makes you very uncomfortable at [TS]

  least it made me very uncomfortable to [TS]

  have to make all of those bad decisions [TS]

  and to not have any choice but to make [TS]

  one bad decision or another I don't know [TS]

  how many people played alone versus with [TS]

  someone nearby when I have someone was [TS]

  watching me play and they're like whoa [TS]

  this gets heavy fast [TS]

  yeah i guess like I mean I kind of knew [TS]

  what the concept of the game was but I [TS]

  was not perhaps emotionally prepared for [TS]

  what that little prologue was going to [TS]

  be like an undergraduate the magic trick [TS]

  is that if you're in the right headspace [TS]

  once you get there you start to like [TS]

  sort of cognitive dissonance texting you [TS]

  like well yeah things are in a bad [TS]

  situation but you know I really didn't [TS]

  have much of a choice and for people in [TS]

  that situation and then time you've done [TS]

  something about your life very often you [TS]

  say yeah things ended up this way but [TS]

  it's not like I had that much of a [TS]

  choice like that that if you are in a [TS]

  bad situation like very often it seems [TS]

  as if at the time you all you had a [TS]

  choice of is a series of bed [TS]

  prices and whichever one you were to [TS]

  pick there was no alternate dialogue [TS]

  tree you would have always led to this [TS]

  situation sort of like to explain your [TS]

  own life to yourself that that even [TS]

  though if you look at my life you would [TS]

  feel like you obviously made some [TS]

  choices you can make better ones for me [TS]

  experiencing that time all I ever saw in [TS]

  front of me were two choices both of [TS]

  which are bad and I tried to pick the [TS]

  least bad one and stone up in a bad [TS]

  place um and if you can get into that [TS]

  mindset you can kind of start to [TS]

  identify because he literally isn't a [TS]

  game where you don't you can't you can't [TS]

  get to a situation where you are better [TS]

  to your wife and you know the whole nine [TS]

  yards right you can't do that but when [TS]

  he's in that fire watch station [TS]

  not that he has a chip on his shoulder [TS]

  but you can kind of tell that he's has [TS]

  justified somebody's running away from [TS]

  it all and like it you know if you were [TS]

  to talk to him if you would have liked [TS]

  free dialogue with Henry and say so [TS]

  what's the deal with all that stuff with [TS]

  your wife and everything would be like [TS]

  you know in hindsight I you know just [TS]

  seemed like at the time there was no way [TS]

  out like that any nothing I did was the [TS]

  right thing to do [TS]

  I think the listening to tiffin and [TS]

  certainly talk about the the the issues [TS]

  with this the another lot of games that [TS]

  will put women in the been male [TS]

  characters with no choice but i wonder [TS]

  because I felt this way to has a man [TS]

  playing a male character i think the [TS]

  intimacy of this story the emotional [TS]

  connection and what's happening here [TS]

  inside this person's life makes it a lot [TS]

  harder to to connect then it then just [TS]

  saying well you know you got a gun in [TS]

  your fight aliens and yet you're your [TS]

  characters mail but whatever right this [TS]

  is the you can't just shrug it off at [TS]

  exactly this is this is you you are [TS]

  talking about the formation of a [TS]

  relationship and then the all the [TS]

  problems in the relationship and then [TS]

  this horrendous kind of end of the [TS]

  relationship them all of that happens [TS]

  and it's it's you know it's not it's [TS]

  that intimacy i think is the thing that [TS]

  really makes it different than just [TS]

  inheriting some character that alright i [TS]

  guess i'm playing this game now let's [TS]

  take a break so i can tell you about one [TS]

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  sponsoring the incomparable we should [TS]

  talk a little bit about uh the forest [TS]

  I think hmm the that is that is a major [TS]

  character in this game as the forest and [TS]

  your job as the fire watch person is to [TS]

  watch for fires and then you get down [TS]

  off of the the tower and you run around [TS]

  in the forest and that is most of this [TS]

  game this game is like a forest [TS]

  simulator on one level and i actually [TS]

  was what was thinking to myself or two [TS]

  questions and two points I want to make [TS]

  and I'm interested in your thoughts [TS]

  about and one of them is I really [TS]

  enjoyed running around in the forest and [TS]

  I [TS]

  admissions to accomplish in this game so [TS]

  it was more than just running around but [TS]

  honestly I had a moment where I thought [TS]

  you know I could probably just wander [TS]

  around in this forest and it's like a [TS]

  great game for nerds who always think [TS]

  about going hiking but would rather just [TS]

  sit in front of the computer you can [TS]

  hike in the forest on your computer so [TS]

  so I don't lose any toes yeah but it was [TS]

  I thought that was beautiful and well [TS]

  realized and then the only other thing i [TS]

  want to mention in this in this section [TS]

  I'm curious about is for a game called [TS]

  Firewatch there is literally zero fire [TS]

  watching I kept expecting that it would [TS]

  start with you wandering around on the [TS]

  tower looking out in the forest waiting [TS]

  to see a puff of smoke somewhere and [TS]

  then radioing it in and you're never [TS]

  given that opportunity and I'm sure they [TS]

  have a good reason they want to kick off [TS]

  the storyline and not bore people but I [TS]

  kind of wanted it to say here's your job [TS]

  stand here here are some binoculars look [TS]

  around and do that for a little while [TS]

  before something happened or maybe even [TS]

  during the story have it just like [TS]

  totally slow down back to well just go [TS]

  back to doing your job but I and bug me [TS]

  a little bit that at no point does Henry [TS]

  do his job like the job of a person in a [TS]

  Firewatch station instead the times [TS]

  presumably when he's doing that we've [TS]

  got sort of fade in and out and we never [TS]

  see them and I kind of wanted that I [TS]

  kind of wanted that boredom and quiet of [TS]

  staring out of the forest there was a [TS]

  time of that there was a on day three [TS]

  they gave you like a free time where [TS]

  they're like all right well when you're [TS]

  ready you talk to me but you know go do [TS]

  what you need to do and you can kind of [TS]

  like not engage the story at that point [TS]

  and just kind of do what you want i [TS]

  instantly said ok I'm ready and didn't [TS]

  spend any time wandering around [TS]

  yeah you can totally like way too much [TS]

  time early on the enolate as long as you [TS]

  want and there there little bit too in [TS]

  the in the middle day is I think it's [TS]

  like Dave 30-year day 40 something like [TS]

  that [TS]

  whenever right after you see we do see [TS]

  the fire in midnight on the June fire [TS]

  there are a couple of a couple of things [TS]

  that the forest exploration aspect is [TS]

  really eerie to me in some ways so I [TS]

  mean I grew up in the Sierras [TS]

  in the summers we have a cabin up north [TS]

  of Lake Tahoe and granted this is not [TS]

  this is not even remotely designed to [TS]

  look like the Sierras but it still has a [TS]

  and there's a familiarity up to being in [TS]

  the absolute wilderness and wandering [TS]

  around and feeling like even with all [TS]

  the the later slightly terrifying things [TS]

  that happen in this story all the things [TS]

  that will happen behind horn behind this [TS]

  from the app behind together and the [TS]

  forest does not feel menacing it we it [TS]

  first even even in the potentially [TS]

  spoiler horny stuff the forest it its [TS]

  it's this weird like you can be out in [TS]

  the middle of nowhere even in the middle [TS]

  of nowhere game-wise and not be worried [TS]

  that someone is going to jump out and [TS]

  scream at you I'm not worried that [TS]

  you're going to stumble and then fall [TS]

  down a ravine I it's all of the all of [TS]

  the things that I remember loving about [TS]

  exploring the forest is a child being [TS]

  able to run up trails and no like nose [TS]

  through Brock bushes and hear this [TS]

  that's very like the the soundscapes in [TS]

  this in this game are so good I I had a [TS]

  moment where I was running through a [TS]

  meadow and thinking this is great [TS]

  because at no point is this game going [TS]

  to make me look down my shoelaces and [TS]

  hang out all the stickers [TS]

  yeah or deal with that deal with all the [TS]

  mosquitoes flying or just even like [TS]

  another video games and in red dead [TS]

  redemption has all these wonderful like [TS]

  soaring vistas and you'll be looking [TS]

  around and then like it will be really [TS]

  like taking in the atmosphere and then [TS]

  you get mauled by a bear or something [TS]

  did you guys find a raccoon yes I heard [TS]

  there was a raccoon [TS]

  yeah it's really cute it's super cute [TS]

  and a picture of him on my camera [TS]

  oh well you got a picture i guess so I'm [TS]

  earlier before I had the camera i got i [TS]

  saw him right after i got the camera and [TS]

  I was like well if if nothing else was a [TS]

  camera moment this is the camera want no [TS]

  did anybody get a turtle no well I see [TS]

  it on the screen shot page on the [TS]

  website but i did not get him and that [TS]

  get back get back to what you guys were [TS]

  talking about before and that I always [TS]

  felt because i'm a gamer and [TS]

  a game player compelled to go to the [TS]

  next objective for two reasons one that [TS]

  like you know you want to see how the [TS]

  story's gonna go to every time you [TS]

  realize the story beat you know you [TS]

  always go what's the next story be [TS]

  what's the next story beat that [TS]

  and the second thing is that like I [TS]

  again being a gamer i had in my head [TS]

  that the day-night cycle was dynamic and [TS]

  scaled as in like you know one hour of [TS]

  game time equals 24 hours of whatever [TS]

  you know whatever scale was that dude [TS]

  like the clock was running at all times [TS]

  when in reality was probably check [TS]

  pointed and the like this scene happens [TS]

  during dusk and you have basically you [TS]

  know like I was afraid I was always [TS]

  afraid that the Sun would go down [TS]

  completely and not there would be a [TS]

  loose condition but that I would that I [TS]

  would miss out on some part of the game [TS]

  by being bad at navigation essentially [TS]

  like getting from point A to point B so [TS]

  at every point in the game I was like a [TS]

  page-turner a novel I was compelled to [TS]

  go to the next point to the next point [TS]

  to the next point and I'm with Jason and [TS]

  that not that I think it would've been a [TS]

  better game with this but just that what [TS]

  i was looking for in some areas was the [TS]

  like in a longer game there would have [TS]

  been more like this like a time when you [TS]

  are just sort of hanging out in the [TS]

  woods and sort of taking ownership of it [TS]

  and i think one of the main reasons they [TS]

  couldn't do that in this game aside from [TS]

  trying to make it tight and make it you [TS]

  know all fit together nicely as again [TS]

  budget because the woods although they [TS]

  look like woods have to be constructed [TS]

  as a series of funnels to herd cattle [TS]

  into a certain number of places that a [TS]

  lot of it is open but there are [TS]

  essentially invisible walls made of [TS]

  brushed some brush you can clear a lot [TS]

  of brush you can't some rocks with [TS]

  carefully painted white ledges you can [TS]

  go up other boulders are just an [TS]

  invisible wall for you and they have to [TS]

  do that to corral people through the [TS]

  story of the game whereas if it was an [TS]

  open-world game like like they had to [TS]

  strike the balance between we want you [TS]

  to feel like this is an entire woods [TS]

  that is completely open to you but on [TS]

  the other hand we do have story beats to [TS]

  head and we do want people to be [TS]

  successful to navigate from point A to [TS]

  point B so we do kind of wanna corral [TS]

  you in the right direction again I think [TS]

  it all just comes down to budget and [TS]

  development time you can't make this [TS]

  magical game it's like oh it's a big [TS]

  fantasy open-world you can spend as much [TS]

  time as you want to go into your but [TS]

  also this type a story that clicks for [TS]

  people that they're able to play and [TS]

  that's that's just something inherent in [TS]

  sort of small independent non big-budget [TS]

  games and I don't think the game is [TS]

  lesser for it because I kind of see all [TS]

  the reasons that they chose to do it [TS]

  that way but the game just look so [TS]

  beautiful that I do wish there was a [TS]

  like a game with 700 times the budget [TS]

  that was like this but fully realized [TS]

  with no invisible walls [TS]

  yeah I showed this games my brother i [TS]

  was watching him play over his shoulder [TS]

  and he's a much more quote unquote [TS]

  traditional gamer you know the first [TS]

  person shooters and things like that and [TS]

  he is the kind of person I realized just [TS]

  then watching him play this where he is [TS]

  the person who will play the game based [TS]

  on where they don't want you to go [TS]

  whereas I'm the kind of game that plays [TS]

  based on where it be game obviously [TS]

  wants you to go and that makes a lot of [TS]

  sense for the story games because you [TS]

  know there's paths there's a story beats [TS]

  that you need to hit there's no dynamic [TS]

  lighting that shows ok when you're at [TS]

  this point you're at dusk at this point [TS]

  you're doing this seen things like that [TS]

  and he was going all the way over to the [TS]

  edge and trying to figure out okay go [TS]

  over this like in Skyrim no okay and it [TS]

  if there is a game with no 700 times the [TS]

  budget where you could have everything [TS]

  look at just this beautiful grand theft [TS]

  auto 5 really does not look as beautiful [TS]

  as this but everything is interactable [TS]

  that's not a word everything is able to [TS]

  be interacted with everything is able to [TS]

  be you can drive around everywhere and [TS]

  it doesn't look nearly as good as fire [TS]

  watch and when it comes to bang for your [TS]

  buck and most game for your time [TS]

  Firewatch is a much better game despite [TS]

  you know at what you were saying John [TS]

  all those invisible walls and all the [TS]

  things that they need to get in there [TS]

  for the sake of budget but also for the [TS]

  sake of story so but they didn't ask you [TS]

  to navigate that's the tricky thing like [TS]

  journey is another example of a small [TS]

  small game with not a lot of place and [TS]

  and journey is definitely following you [TS]

  the same way with the story beats but no [TS]

  part of journey is it like and navigate [TS]

  however you want from point A to point B [TS]

  you never on a first playthrough journey [TS]

  ideally you'd never hit invisible wall [TS]

  and I feel like almost anybody on their [TS]

  first play through fire watches at some [TS]

  point could did an invisible wall even [TS]

  if it's only just a series of boulders [TS]

  and trees preventing you from funny a [TS]

  path that's what the forest is like I [TS]

  was actually impressed that i could go [TS]

  as many places I could given how [TS]

  impassable so much i mean it [TS]

  the invisible walls are visible walls [TS]

  because it and they treat in the story [TS]

  levels in trees and boulders [TS]

  about the brush her like a a boulder [TS]

  this as high as your shin you could step [TS]

  over but they make you walk around and [TS]

  you know like it because like you just [TS]

  don't have the budget to try to make [TS]

  completely passable terrain river you [TS]

  have to essentially make it passable [TS]

  area versus non passable all 22 final [TS]

  people around but because they give you [TS]

  the freedom it's almost open world like [TS]

  they say get back to the tower however [TS]

  you want there's a whole bunch of [TS]

  alternate paths you don't have to follow [TS]

  the palace that but if you take one of [TS]

  the alternate paths that seems like it's [TS]

  entirely plausible that all there is [TS]

  just a little bitch with a different [TS]

  amount of dirt in it and some shin-hye [TS]

  boulders and trees you can clearly walk [TS]

  between easily it's like no you can't go [TS]

  that way but sometimes you go up [TS]

  depression it says you know L to clear [TS]

  brush or whatever it's all I can clear [TS]

  this brush but i can't clear the other [TS]

  brush so it it's it's very difficult [TS]

  I mean it's a challenging thing if you [TS]

  decide to make a game for this budget [TS]

  for this amount of gameplay and say all [TS]

  is going to be an overall forest looks [TS]

  gorgeous from every direction that's [TS]

  really hard to do they mean by it looks [TS]

  gorgeous from every direction but it is [TS]

  not quite open world it's like [TS]

  ninety-nine percent open i have one of [TS]

  those moments that totally pulled a bit [TS]

  out of me when I was going to the scout [TS]

  camp and lazily if I approached it from [TS]

  one side there was an invisible wall [TS]

  that just like we just consider when [TS]

  yeah I couldn't get there and I was like [TS]

  okay I guess I'll navigate around but [TS]

  it's like why I'm guessing that one was [TS]

  a bug [TS]

  yeah I get it done everything the cabins [TS]

  from that one side instead of it so you [TS]

  experience that to like how ya doing [TS]

  I like I tried it for a really long like [TS]

  stupid amount of time to really get to [TS]

  know that while i'm like no i know i can [TS]

  get into this is the second time i [TS]

  played i know i'm allowed here for me [TS]

  that moment was towards the end there is [TS]

  a really wonderful music moment whereas [TS]

  you're supposed to be walking somewhere [TS]

  the music kicks in and dramatic and bump [TS]

  bump bump and I got a horrific lost and [TS]

  the music kept playing four maybe five [TS]

  or ten minutes while I was trying to get [TS]

  back to the path is a yeah they just [TS]

  lost all of its momentum after a while [TS]

  like okay yeah this is just background [TS]

  noise now I need to get back on the [TS]

  freaking path I mean journey does that [TS]

  same thing to die i have experienced [TS]

  that to brian it was like stop stressing [TS]

  me out music you maybe you made me freak [TS]

  out now I don't know where I am [TS]

  that's the delicate dance between the [TS]

  developer and the player they you want [TS]

  to be in harmony [TS]

  and when you're in harmony everything [TS]

  works but boy if things go off the rails [TS]

  and i said i think it is a harder [TS]

  challenge to get that in this type of [TS]

  game where it's the woods and it is very [TS]

  impressively large area a beautiful area [TS]

  places you want to go to you like a look [TS]

  at that all the way over there oh you [TS]

  know even if you're not compelled to go [TS]

  that I could objective you do want to [TS]

  explore I think that leads to more [TS]

  people getting hung up on geometry or [TS]

  getting disoriented and feeling unfairly [TS]

  they can't get back to the path you [TS]

  really can totally see it right through [TS]

  that brush sprite or whatever there was [TS]

  one point where they wanted you to go [TS]

  down to the lake to and they even [TS]

  shortened one of the the belaying ropes [TS]

  so that you couldn't get back up one of [TS]

  the shell slides because they really [TS]

  really wanted you to go to the lake and [TS]

  it was just like just little tiny [TS]

  shortened up and then the next time you [TS]

  go see it's long again and you can [TS]

  totally climate i'm going to just like [TS]

  what [TS]

  yeah my god i was a little trick but oh [TS]

  well I make it wouldn't have been that [TS]

  big of a deal if you went exploring but [TS]

  yeah it's it's interesting to me because [TS]

  i think by and large I actually I [TS]

  figured out sort of the the good places [TS]

  to go and not good places to go by [TS]

  looking at map terrain that map is [TS]

  beautiful and I was trying my hardest to [TS]

  work on the map without the without why [TS]

  little GPS dot yeah isn't that nice you [TS]

  got a paper map that has a that has a [TS]

  track around it was a mechanic come over [TS]

  there other people complaining about how [TS]

  hard it like that getting lost and stuff [TS]

  at us like that [TS]

  I i did not experience well so you can [TS]

  if you're bad at directions which I'm [TS]

  not I'm pretty good with a compass in [TS]

  real life but apparently and fire watch [TS]

  all of that goes out the window because [TS]

  I definitely went someplace being like [TS]

  I'm going south [TS]

  wait no now i'm hitting an impenetrable [TS]

  wall where to go but when i combine it [TS]

  with the map it's very easy to see what [TS]

  areas are basically explorable and what [TS]

  areas are just mountain and it was also [TS]

  nice because it gave me clues on sort of [TS]

  where to look for the hidden manna still [TS]

  be hidden mickeys butt but there are [TS]

  some there are some interesting things [TS]

  in the game that i don't know i don't [TS]

  necessarily think directly play to the [TS]

  the primary story but you can find by [TS]

  kind of wondering often [TS]

  and going into little did anybody maybe [TS]

  this requires spoilery but anybody find [TS]

  the burned-out cabin on the outside [TS]

  yeah i did not know that yeah so there's [TS]

  so that I won't tell you where I won't [TS]

  tell you where but there is a super [TS]

  super creepy burned-out cabin and when [TS]

  your radio Delilah about it [TS]

  Delilah's silence and you can explore [TS]

  said cabin but I i ran into that really [TS]

  early on when the game was still very [TS]

  much in its happy-go-lucky phase and I [TS]

  was like oh let's go okay now i'm [TS]

  getting a serious missed five what's [TS]

  going on so but but I didn't I wouldn't [TS]

  have found that if i hadn't been paying [TS]

  such close attention to the map where [TS]

  they like the darker shades in the [TS]

  lighter shades were for exploring so i [TS]

  highly encourage people if you not [TS]

  finish the game if you're going back on [TS]

  a second playthrough that's a really fun [TS]

  way of kind of looking through stuff [TS]

  they also just released the maps for [TS]

  download in super high-quality format so [TS]

  you can actually print it out and have [TS]

  it with you while you play be covered [TS]

  this week also sponsored by The Walking [TS]

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  being comfortable i really enjoyed how [TS]

  do they didn't just use that as we're [TS]

  talking about the invisible walls to [TS]

  guide you but they use the dialogue and [TS]

  a lot of times the Lila would say things [TS]

  to you that kind of would funnel you [TS]

  around to get you back on track with the [TS]

  game and I thought that was kind of neat [TS]

  that sometimes when you like radio in [TS]

  about like a random meadow or something [TS]

  and she's like why are you over there [TS]

  she's like you're not supposed to be [TS]

  over there [TS]

  you're supposed to be doing your job [TS]

  like stop fooling around and focus you [TS]

  know you really reading about the [TS]

  utility poles like all these utility [TS]

  poles they used to community and if you [TS]

  can see them you're way off course [TS]

  yeah there's one you could even go back [TS]

  to the what is that called the little [TS]

  trolley that you can only handle islands [TS]

  Charlie if you go up there really early [TS]

  she's like oh yeah it's totally closed [TS]

  unless it's an emergency and they make [TS]

  jokes and they say like it's an [TS]

  emergency let me over and always try and [TS]

  throw it it kind of its fun that you [TS]

  they the dialogue directs you but also [TS]

  kind of build your relationship in a [TS]

  different way if you hadn't found that [TS]

  kind of stuff and you get like more [TS]

  jokes that they have between each other [TS]

  and the guy i think it changes their [TS]

  relationship a little bit like later on [TS]

  because then they get more their voices [TS]

  even sound more casual with each other [TS]

  know that the flip side of that is if [TS]

  you don't communicate with their like my [TS]

  son was playing through this even though [TS]

  it's got lots of curses and everything [TS]

  you know yes she gets she has been so I [TS]

  get mad like she because he's you know I [TS]

  barbarian preteen boy I was trying i was [TS]

  saying you should use the thing to [TS]

  answer on the radio and he's like why [TS]

  would it like that's the game you have [TS]

  to you know because if you don't [TS]

  communicate with her if you don't [TS]

  encourage a series of bad puns if you [TS]

  don't if you when she's going to admit [TS]

  that she was drunk when she called you [TS]

  if you don't engage in a conversation [TS]

  she never admits [TS]

  and that too that you just missed that [TS]

  entirely like you you you fail to build [TS]

  a relationship so in some ways there's a [TS]

  little bit of the game player that [TS]

  person was playing the game including [TS]

  how the story goes that if only and how [TS]

  much gets revealed i'm assuming by the [TS]

  end of the game she gets all casual [TS]

  familiar anyway but it's weird to see [TS]

  someone playing the game who isn't [TS]

  compelled or this doesn't understand [TS]

  they're being asked to it is isn't [TS]

  trying to exhaust at least one branch of [TS]

  all the dialogue breeze which i think [TS]

  most game players are you know it's kind [TS]

  of like reading a book and getting i'm [TS]

  gonna skip this page of dialogues I want [TS]

  you gotta read you gotta play out the [TS]

  story you know whichever way it's gonna [TS]

  go i'm pretty certain it stays [TS]

  consistent throughout the game they like [TS]

  how your relationship bills because I [TS]

  don't know did you guys listen to the up [TS]

  up down down with the game developers [TS]

  haven't yet it's it's very good it's [TS]

  super insightful when it comes to [TS]

  understanding how the how dynamic the [TS]

  dialogue really is and how many I audio [TS]

  clips that they recorded in order to [TS]

  really even pinpoint like okay so what [TS]

  makes this choice and then this choice [TS]

  and that choice and then it then that [TS]

  changes with it it changes the outcome [TS]

  of this conversation because if you [TS]

  don't tell her something you know that [TS]

  she will never know it so she can't [TS]

  bring it up later so and then that so [TS]

  that changes every single kind of like [TS]

  the the i guess the the tree that's [TS]

  forms with the dialogue and it will [TS]

  change the course of the game [TS]

  it's very very interesting i highly [TS]

  suggest that people who are interested [TS]

  in this game [TS]

  listen to that episode because they they [TS]

  really highlight that a lot and that [TS]

  made me after my first playthrough [TS]

  really appreciate the depth of dialogue [TS]

  and the voice acting and what that what [TS]

  this game is really highlighting so much [TS]

  more that's really difficult to do [TS]

  though because many situations even my [TS]

  first playthrough I got the dialogue [TS]

  thing a little bit confused about the [TS]

  timing of like oh she would have [TS]

  realized she just told me that and now [TS]

  she's telling me the same thing in a [TS]

  different context you know like that [TS]

  that it's been so very difficult to make [TS]

  it all seem naturalistic and again when [TS]

  everything is working and when I went to [TS]

  person playing the game makes some [TS]

  semblance of the obvious choices and [TS]

  times things in the appropriate ways but [TS]

  it's very easy for it's very easy to [TS]

  break the game by doing with you no they [TS]

  don't [TS]

  want to do even if you're not that kind [TS]

  of player I mean I like this game a lot [TS]

  but they're all these places where you [TS]

  can kind of see the seams and that I [TS]

  don't like that and and i think i'm part [TS]

  of my eye I don't know if i will replay [TS]

  this because in some ways I feel like if [TS]

  I replay it i will just see more of [TS]

  those and that will just kind of [TS]

  diminish my my enjoyment and especially [TS]

  yeah i mean because I mean I'm kind of [TS]

  without having played it without having [TS]

  gone and sought out the answer it [TS]

  because I don't totally want to know but [TS]

  I mean I assume there's lots of choices [TS]

  you make that or you know almost all the [TS]

  choices you make really don't matter [TS]

  well I played I to to counter that just [TS]

  a second like I played it differently [TS]

  each time i played it twice and the [TS]

  first time I made one set of decisions [TS]

  in the second time I made a second set [TS]

  and I feel like I it followed me through [TS]

  the game in a similar way but my [TS]

  relationship with Delilah was a little [TS]

  bit different and I think that that is [TS]

  what is is highlighted here you know [TS]

  what I mean it's not going to [TS]

  drastically change the outcome of the [TS]

  game or anything but your relationship [TS]

  with this person and I guess feels [TS]

  different [TS]

  how you feel about the character that [TS]

  your body yeah would change [TS]

  I'm just I i played uh other games by [TS]

  the same writing team and there are lots [TS]

  of places where it's like you realize [TS]

  after the fact that they're kind of like [TS]

  they're false choices and like they can [TS]

  feel powerful and motivating at the time [TS]

  but then when you kind of see later that [TS]

  like it didn't matter that kind of like [TS]

  the magic trick is undone and your [TS]

  robbed [TS]

  that's kind of the gamers mindset though [TS]

  greater like well it doesn't change the [TS]

  ending like the only thing that matters [TS]

  is like at the end of the game what [TS]

  happens to the aliens winter they lose [TS]

  to do the world ball operators I mean [TS]

  lapa cheers and ire does your son live i [TS]

  didn't get the part of fire watch where [TS]

  there were aliens John right now but [TS]

  that's what people mean when they talk [TS]

  about the taste like whether they're [TS]

  like oh it doesn't matter what you do [TS]

  the ending is always the same but what [TS]

  if says is true in a game like this [TS]

  the plot points of like who did what and [TS]

  what turns out to be the mystery is not [TS]

  entirely what this game is about and if [TS]

  you go to the game with it with a [TS]

  different series of choices and you feel [TS]

  at the end of it that you have a very [TS]

  different relationship with the other [TS]

  the other certain non-player character [TS]

  in the game that is at least fifty [TS]

  percent of the game but every review of [TS]

  it everyone who plays it will always say [TS]

  oh well it doesn't really matter it has [TS]

  the same ending [TS]

  it really the same ending like no you [TS]

  know it mean plot-wise it is but that's [TS]

  again with it i think it's a mindset of [TS]

  when reviewing games that that you [TS]

  always think about it in her because [TS]

  games can do this thing where like you [TS]

  have drastically different endings you [TS]

  can have those type of games which again [TS]

  for watching us from the very beginning [TS]

  we are not that type of game there's not [TS]

  a series of choices you're gonna make [TS]

  they're gonna make this person live in [TS]

  this person died or whatever like it's [TS]

  well not gonna pick on that specific [TS]

  example this the the writers for this [TS]

  worked on the walking dead games right [TS]

  and they're all these places where it's [TS]

  like someone's in mortal danger and you [TS]

  have basically a choice of like try and [TS]

  help them or leave them to die and then [TS]

  what's kind of rough is that there's a [TS]

  lot of times with like you try to help [TS]

  them and you were unsuccessful and they [TS]

  die vs you leave them and you see them [TS]

  die and you know you can feel [TS]

  differently about it into the end like [TS]

  well he's not trying to save them versus [TS]

  i was i I mean you feel differently and [TS]

  about the person you are but it's also [TS]

  like you then see when you realize that [TS]

  choice didn't you know you you also [TS]

  didn't have any control that's what now [TS]

  you know that's where you see the seam [TS]

  and you're like a it's advisor how much [TS]

  control do I have the world that I have [TS]

  oh how much control do I have this story [TS]

  versus is the story just being told to [TS]

  be I guess I'm gonna be late for the [TS]

  meeting room time travel movies you know [TS]

  that if you actually have a legitimate [TS]

  choices it does not take long until you [TS]

  are essentially creating an entire world [TS]

  of possibilities within your tiny little [TS]

  game it's like that you know that the [TS]

  the you know unescapable math of tree [TS]

  branching means there and there are some [TS]

  games that do that which is pretty [TS]

  impressive money you have to do it all [TS]

  you have to do it is in the big points [TS]

  because you can make it so all you have [TS]

  is definitely feel satisfied like wow [TS]

  there are you up or didn't that's just [TS]

  two branches right but people will think [TS]

  all it's a significant change these [TS]

  series of of you know but it's like it's [TS]

  it's a tree that comes back in on itself [TS]

  and ends up with two or three different [TS]

  endings whereas you related to play out [TS]

  naturally you start out with in one [TS]

  position and then up with like 700,000 [TS]

  endings and that is untenable but that [TS]

  is the natural consequences of real life [TS]

  in a game that has a branching structure [TS]

  yeah you branch out but you have to come [TS]

  back into have five possible ending 25 [TS]

  minutes but not a million endings not to [TS]

  the power of 65 and things right you [TS]

  know me and that's what that's what [TS]

  realistically would be like I like when [TS]

  the game gave you one choice at certain [TS]

  points and [TS]

  had to click that one choice you have on [TS]

  and I mean like I feel like that's like [TS]

  forcing you to own that choice and to [TS]

  become that choice in that character you [TS]

  know and I I thought that was a nice [TS]

  touch that that even though it wasn't [TS]

  you know your choice and it wasn't [TS]

  making the trainee broader and it wasn't [TS]

  like making a dynamic are giving you a [TS]

  better option [TS]

  it was still making you click that and [TS]

  by clicking it you're like okay as if [TS]

  this character i'm making this choice to [TS]

  say this or not say this or do this or [TS]

  not do this but you're doing it you have [TS]

  to click it so that anyways you're [TS]

  complicit now [TS]

  yeah well think about games like journey [TS]

  and gone home where there is no choice [TS]

  where everything that happens you're [TS]

  controlling it but there is a single [TS]

  linear path and I don't think there's [TS]

  any diminishing returns between having [TS]

  several different options are several [TS]

  different endings or tree branches or [TS]

  whatever versus just having one [TS]

  narrative experience that is fantastic [TS]

  even the first time and then you go back [TS]

  and even if you can see the seams as you [TS]

  go back as you make the same decisions [TS]

  are different decisions and no decisions [TS]

  because there's only one narrative path [TS]

  I feel like there's no like I I would [TS]

  not call this a better game because [TS]

  there's extra options [TS]

  regardless of whether or not those [TS]

  options really affect anything in terms [TS]

  of plots isn't a whole psychological [TS]

  thing that if you have more choices [TS]

  you're less happy with your outcome i [TS]

  think in the character driven game like [TS]

  this that what you really want is I i [TS]

  like the idea that the plot is really [TS]

  gonna go as it's going to go but your [TS]

  relationship is going to be impacted by [TS]

  the choices you make your relationship [TS]

  with that person on the other side of [TS]

  the pic of the canyon on the other end [TS]

  of the walkie-talkie and and I like that [TS]

  about it that you know I if if you feel [TS]

  like nothing matters then you can take [TS]

  you out of the game if you're just [TS]

  completely on rails and you know they're [TS]

  there but here what you get is the plot [TS]

  is is pushing you in that in the [TS]

  direction you need to go but the [TS]

  relationship is something that you have [TS]

  to tend to and build and make choices [TS]

  about and having it feel like that has [TS]

  an impact makes you feel like you you [TS]

  know you did you did have you did have [TS]

  an experience where you helped create it [TS]

  even if you were still kind of on the on [TS]

  the on the rails in terms of the plot [TS]

  itself so i was other games you [TS]

  mentioned a like they they have all the [TS]

  things you described but they always [TS]

  want to give you [TS]

  something else to to enjoy the place [TS]

  over example journey the thing they're [TS]

  giving you is your experience with the [TS]

  other player which is an actual human is [TS]

  very unpredictable even though your [TS]

  interactions very constrained that can [TS]

  totally change your experience of the [TS]

  game even though there are essentially [TS]

  no choices during the game [TS]

  the walking dead i think what gives you [TS]

  is a lot of branches that eventually [TS]

  merge back together a story with [TS]

  characters that like it's more of a [TS]

  faceless protagonist you can kind of [TS]

  define more and i think one of the key [TS]

  points in the walking dead for me is at [TS]

  one point in the game [TS]

  something happened and I felt compelled [TS]

  to the whole wrestling was playing [TS]

  playing make my choices best i can [TS]

  enjoying it but at a certain point [TS]

  something happened that I felt like I [TS]

  need to go back into the last checkpoint [TS]

  because I know there's some way I got to [TS]

  be able to not let this happen and i [TS]

  wanted to do that mostly because i was [TS]

  invested in the characters and the story [TS]

  and I didn't want this thing to happen [TS]

  figures just me I've made a series of [TS]

  bad choices there must be a way to avoid [TS]

  this and when I found that it was [TS]

  unavoidable [TS]

  it was a little bit disappointing but it [TS]

  also showed me that I had become [TS]

  invested in the characters then often [TS]

  these characters that I cared that this [TS]

  choice that I made led to his outcome [TS]

  and yes reveals the game is a little [TS]

  more limited at this game like journey [TS]

  it doesn't have other human players to [TS]

  play with but it has some other part of [TS]

  the game that is supposed to be making [TS]

  up for the fact that you are essentially [TS]

  being led through the the the trail by a [TS]

  bright on thats the in your interactions [TS]

  with the Lyle which to vary the scenery [TS]

  your sort of your sort of eventually [TS]

  becoming invested in taking ownership of [TS]

  this experience and the sort of am I [TS]

  going crazy what is really going on here [TS]

  you know what it called encyclopedia [TS]

  brown side plot journey that makes up [TS]

  the heart of this game that we started [TS]

  really talking about it which would I [TS]

  think we should I think we should get to [TS]

  let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

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  Casper brings together two great [TS]

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  mattress it's so much better than a man [TS]

  just that i had they have a really [TS]

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  are two kinds of foam there's latex foam [TS]

  that's the top layer it's the one that [TS]

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  guess that's what they would call just [TS]

  the right sink and then there's a firmer [TS]

  memory foam layer underneath they would [TS]

  say just the right balance it does not [TS]

  feel like you're going to sit on the [TS]

  edge of a trampoline when you sit on the [TS]

  mattress and when you lay down you're [TS]

  going to get a great comfortable feel [TS]

  much better than you'd get laying on a [TS]

  mattress in store for two minutes [TS]

  because you get to try it they have a [TS]

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  a cast mattress try for up to a hundred [TS]

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  you'll get your money back that's right [TS]

  so the risk is less buying a mattress [TS]

  from Casper on the internet that it [TS]

  would be going to a store laying on a [TS]

  mattress for two minutes and hoping that [TS]

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  much to Casper for sponsoring the [TS]

  incomparable and giving me a good [TS]

  night's sleep every night i hope we have [TS]

  satisfied your your curiosity enough to [TS]

  bake you interested in playing this game [TS]

  but now we're gonna we're gonna break [TS]

  down some of the things that happen [TS]

  toward the end in terms of the plot so [TS]

  we're gonna fire off the spoiler horn [TS]

  there goes out I was so louder than ever [TS]

  the spoiler horn and that goes [TS]

  throughout the woods it does it [TS]

  that's right it's a spoiler Horn fire [TS]

  that's right huh [TS]

  I was spoiled whore neck oh yeah so I [TS]

  you know I I so the plot here we get we [TS]

  get there's there's a bunch of different [TS]

  strands we've got the we see a figure [TS]

  Leon that's unidentified there's a break [TS]

  into the to the to the the tower we find [TS]

  the backpack full of ropes that's from [TS]

  the kid we learn about Brian and and Ned [TS]

  who are out there in the in the forest [TS]

  there are there are the teenage girls [TS]

  down at the lake that you end up going [TS]

  down her firing off fireworks and then [TS]

  there is there a series of sort of [TS]

  paranoid things about people who are [TS]

  watching them and listening to their [TS]

  radios and there's a whole fenced-off [TS]

  area that nobody seems to know about and [TS]

  the tracking device and you know extra [TS]

  radios and all sorts of things like that [TS]

  as well as this fire that that starts [TS]

  and and spreads so you know there's a [TS]

  lot of different stuff that happens and [TS]

  even though it feels very linear when [TS]

  you're playing it you know when you [TS]

  think back you like well you know is it [TS]

  all connected [TS]

  is it not connected but you know the [TS]

  these are the different threads that are [TS]

  building throughout the throughout the [TS]

  story so what would people think about [TS]

  the about the plot threads and whether [TS]

  they're connected or not I have an [TS]

  opinion and I'm going to share later [TS]

  about some of it because i think some [TS]

  works better than others of it a one [TS]

  hundred percent right but what do you [TS]

  think I i enjoyed the interaction with [TS]

  the with the teenagers out in the woods [TS]

  I feel like there's I feel like that the [TS]

  game hits you with the two things that [TS]

  you're going to think about about being [TS]

  on the woods especially if you've never [TS]

  really done it but even if you have like [TS]

  one of them is people like like Delilah [TS]

  says over the radio at one point it's [TS]

  like what I got to let you know that [TS]

  they're like people out there because [TS]

  it's the National Forest and people can [TS]

  go out there this job it's outside and [TS]

  so but the two things that you get is [TS]

  one you get [TS]

  kind of slightly scary or not [TS]

  interaction which which totally happens [TS]

  where it's like I see a figure he may be [TS]

  looking at me and then he's gone is that [TS]

  creepy or is that just how life is out [TS]

  in the woods and then the other one is [TS]

  the is is that people who are out of [TS]

  civilization sometimes behave strangely [TS]

  because they get to do whatever they [TS]

  want because they're outside of [TS]

  civilization and that's what the girls [TS]

  at the girls at the at the lake are [TS]

  doing and so I like those two elements [TS]

  happen right away because you know those [TS]

  it's a good introduction to the plot to [TS]

  have have those two things and then they [TS]

  also said you wanted because you're like [TS]

  you're an authority figure 11 on the one [TS]

  hand but on the other hand maybe they're [TS]

  creepy things going on and when the [TS]

  cabin gets broken into you've got two [TS]

  suspects [TS]

  so you're already kind of like not sure [TS]

  about what's happening and that's what [TS]

  that's what propels the story I think [TS]

  it's an interesting choice for me there [TS]

  were two things going on about like the [TS]

  plot and the way that the game unrolled [TS]

  it one there were so many red herrings [TS]

  oh my god the entire kill many red [TS]

  herring central and I feel like the [TS]

  impact berries at the end of the game [TS]

  when you realize how relatively tame the [TS]

  actual events are I mean there's no like [TS]

  big grand conspiracy is just a Ned being [TS]

  a creep and being lonely and regretting [TS]

  his son's death and the fact that that [TS]

  is all that there is at the end of the [TS]

  game really i mean not all like not [TS]

  that's not a super impactful moment but [TS]

  there's still something there where it's [TS]

  like we spend the entire game freaking [TS]

  out about government agencies and these [TS]

  two girls that we don't really [TS]

  understand in some creepy person with a [TS]

  light like it ends up being something [TS]

  that's much more down-to-earth that's [TS]

  the word I'm looking for down to earth [TS]

  than any of the other crazy things are [TS]

  you thinking about during the game and [TS]

  second i feel like the whole game i was [TS]

  trying to figure out what the rules of [TS]

  the game were whether or not we would [TS]

  see other people whether or not no [TS]

  Delilah was even real they to spell that [TS]

  but there is a moment i was thinking are [TS]

  we going to see any other creatures are [TS]

  going to see anything move and I was [TS]

  trying to extrapolate where the game [TS]

  would go based on that [TS]

  and at the end we don't meet Delilah we [TS]

  only ever see one other actual human [TS]

  person at the very end he brings you in [TS]

  to the chopper and we see what a deer at [TS]

  the very beginning but that's it in [TS]

  terms of other playable characters and I [TS]

  thought is it that's budget for you [TS]

  everything you just described costs [TS]

  money you're gonna animate the Lyle I [TS]

  knew you'd never seen a lot of it [TS]

  because that would take this time and [TS]

  money you barely even see yourself you [TS]

  see a very few animals like its I mean [TS]

  is the harsh reality of game development [TS]

  is that all those things you described [TS]

  you essentially have to design [TS]

  especially game like this that looks [TS]

  just amazing like this clear all the [TS]

  money went right that's what the [TS]

  wilderness is like you can you can ya [TS]

  for a day and see nothing except that's [TS]

  why I good premise you have to think [TS]

  like we have a limited budget for a game [TS]

  and we have this ambition to have a [TS]

  beautiful forest that means lots of [TS]

  interaction with people no lots of [TS]

  animals running around know like all [TS]

  right so can we design a story where [TS]

  those become assets and I think the [TS]

  heart of the story in the central part [TS]

  is kind of like not gaslighting entirely [TS]

  but what they want you to do is realize [TS]

  that you're messed up and they want you [TS]

  to doubt yourself and Delilah encourages [TS]

  you in this of like thinking that you [TS]

  know they want you to think this is [TS]

  unreliable narrator did I break these [TS]

  girls camps in a sequence that I wasn't [TS]

  able to control during the plane did I [TS]

  set that fire like because people doubt [TS]

  you and you try to defend yourself with [TS]

  them is playing the game like well maybe [TS]

  that wasn't me or maybe is their [TS]

  conspiracy might just going nuts out [TS]

  here in the woods because that's [TS]

  something that happens right when you're [TS]

  on the woods to start going a little [TS]

  stir-crazy you start assuming things [TS]

  that are happening which is the whole [TS]

  core of the game [TS]

  yeah and people come out here and there [TS]

  you know they're not able to handle it [TS]

  and it you know this is a type of thing [TS]

  to drive to play and type game like this [TS]

  can go and one of the directors you can [TS]

  go whole hog you can do like a eternal [TS]

  darkness type thing where that becomes a [TS]

  game mechanic and you know the fighting [TS]

  off the trying to maintain your sanity [TS]

  or doubting what you see are not being [TS]

  able to trust what actually happens in [TS]

  the game and it just gets you know it [TS]

  just it starts off like oh you're in a [TS]

  fire watching by the end of the game [TS]

  like there could be aliens falling out [TS]

  of the sky and everything can't fire you [TS]

  wake up and you know or making all the [TS]

  direction this game did which is try to [TS]

  lead you in that direction and I thought [TS]

  it might only because I was like I don't [TS]

  care what they say about Henry I'm going [TS]

  to control i'm gonna say Henry keep it [TS]

  together [TS]

  you are not going nuts you probably [TS]

  didn't kill those girls I'm really [TS]

  hoping that's not what you did because I [TS]

  feel like that's not the kind of guy you [TS]

  are Henry and just keep it together in [TS]

  the end yet in the end it turns out to [TS]

  be a prosaic explanation and I think [TS]

  that is exactly what they wanted from [TS]

  this game and that he goes this place to [TS]

  escape and in some ways the fantasy of [TS]

  I've come to this place and there's a [TS]

  government conspiracy and people are [TS]

  watching me and who knows what's going [TS]

  on in this also seekers these woods that [TS]

  would be quite an escape from your [TS]

  real-life situation but in the end [TS]

  wherever you go there you are there's [TS]

  not a government conspiracies just one [TS]

  person you connected with over long [TS]

  distance from your watchtower and in the [TS]

  end you got to get back on a chopper and [TS]

  go back to civilization a place in the [TS]

  same expectations has gone home where [TS]

  you're expecting you're playing a game [TS]

  it there should be something there [TS]

  that's no really really weird how the [TS]

  ordinary look at government conspiracy [TS]

  and no it's just this where the occult [TS]

  or something yeah it's just like nope [TS]

  it's simpler than that but the theme of [TS]

  the theme of our watches that you are [TS]

  the theme of our watches that you are [TS]

  growing those words to escape your life [TS]

  the whole idea like that it takes that [TS]

  escape away from here to say you know [TS]

  that this character has come here to get [TS]

  away from all these things that he [TS]

  doesn't want to think about and wouldn't [TS]

  it be nice if there was this amazing [TS]

  adventure conspiracy to make him forget [TS]

  about all that become the hero of a new [TS]

  story but that's not the way it works in [TS]

  real life whereas and gone home you [TS]

  start thinking like oh is it you know is [TS]

  that they're going to be ghosts in this [TS]

  kitchen am I gonna you know like the [TS]

  bathtub with the red hair dye and [TS]

  everything and that is what goes beyond [TS]

  home is mostly subverting your [TS]

  expectations of game player this I feel [TS]

  like is subverting the expectations of [TS]

  the character within the game because [TS]

  the character within the game took this [TS]

  job to get away and the character within [TS]

  the game would be entirely susceptible [TS]

  to getting all wrapped up into this [TS]

  thing like who wouldn't and most people [TS]

  would because it's an exciting adventure [TS]

  but him even more so you know getting [TS]

  wrapped up with Delilah and and the [TS]

  things that are going on the mysteries [TS]

  of the woods and I think the character [TS]

  in the game we'd be just as disappointed [TS]

  as a lot of game players are the end of [TS]

  you realize though it was all just [TS]

  normal stuff and I got to get on the [TS]

  chopper [TS]

  well did everyone get on the chopper oh [TS]

  yeah you can ya do not know you can [TS]

  decide to go on tumblr [TS]

  that's a bad choice and presently that's [TS]

  the whole thing right the the weirdo in [TS]

  the root woods is like oh here you can [TS]

  have my bunker enjoy it right so you can [TS]

  like decided not to go under and ya go [TS]

  live in his creepy bunker or burn for [TS]

  burn them yeah which is yeah equality [TS]

  mukhtar Lucius yeah yeah I do not burn [TS]

  to death so somebody so explain this [TS]

  because of the war my problems with this [TS]

  with this guy i like the idea that you [TS]

  you get caught up in all of these things [TS]

  but it turns out the the that it's not [TS]

  as big story as you think i like that [TS]

  but there is a moment or a short series [TS]

  of moments late in this game where you [TS]

  get the radio thing this is oh they [TS]

  found the girls they're fine which takes [TS]

  up this whole like what happened to the [TS]

  girls did they did they leave they do [TS]

  this they get killed what happened to [TS]

  them you you get the end it's like up [TS]

  forgetting are we gonna get in trouble [TS]

  for not exactly bit of it there was some [TS]

  panic about the girls and in the middle [TS]

  of the game and yeah I kind of like [TS]

  wrapped it up for you but then it's just [TS]

  literally it's just like oh they found [TS]

  the girls are fine right all right is [TS]

  not home [TS]

  what happens if that's the way we like [TS]

  you're doing delilah or inventing this [TS]

  this possible drama in the ways it's a [TS]

  lot of like you know summer summer [TS]

  vacation where you go off and have this [TS]

  summer adventure to seem so important [TS]

  but in hindsight like nothing really [TS]

  happened it's just you and allow you [TS]

  have no outside input other than what [TS]

  she said she's communicating like there [TS]

  really is no voltage from the outside [TS]

  world so you can spend days going back [TS]

  and forth like where are those girls [TS]

  sure you didn't do anything do you [TS]

  believe me I know you believe but [TS]

  nothing is happening there's no new [TS]

  information available here [TS]

  you're just spinning out this tale [TS]

  amongst yourself because you have [TS]

  nothing else to do in the woods yeah and [TS]

  you're both like the dialogue get your [TS]

  like both kind of camping each other up [TS]

  about what's going on like there's one [TS]

  point that she's panicking and you're [TS]

  like calm down it's okay like we're [TS]

  gonna figure this out and then there's [TS]

  another point that you're like are you [TS]

  even real who are you what's happening [TS]

  am I talking to myself and then I can i [TS]

  peek of that they're they're suddenly [TS]

  afraid to talk about anything because [TS]

  they're being listened to [TS]

  right and and I'm not that work nicely [TS]

  and and that's that that's the thing I [TS]

  mean that that's a it's just kind of [TS]

  funny that it that it's just punctured [TS]

  so quickly but that the this [TS]

  I've never even heard of this place [TS]

  there's a killer to clipboard you're [TS]

  being listened to there's a government [TS]

  thing with a chain-link fence we don't [TS]

  know what it is we've never seen it [TS]

  before [TS]

  I'm gonna go break into it they've got [TS]

  you no records of our conversations oh [TS]

  and now it's on fire somebody explain to [TS]

  me what the story is with you without [TS]

  just know it's it's it's just a research [TS]

  station except Ned has planted things [TS]

  there to confuse you so he he's made it [TS]

  seem like they're spying on you like [TS]

  with everything he's got his little [TS]

  typewriter and he's he's making fake [TS]

  virus was found a little that was a [TS]

  little weak but he didn't make it even [TS]

  if you look at their he didn't make that [TS]

  many reports like if not report this [TS]

  one-page like he's not he's not even [TS]

  very good faking it because you're [TS]

  caught up in the game you're like oh [TS]

  this is stationed in this weird stuff [TS]

  and his BP things looks like city [TS]

  17-year I'm respecting it don't have to [TS]

  come out and attack me two seconds but [TS]

  and presumably he starts the fire [TS]

  yeah but you realize if you look at [TS]

  what's there it's like it's like three [TS]

  typewritten sheets of paper with radio [TS]

  interceptor always in relation with a [TS]

  boring science stuff that you don't [TS]

  understand right [TS]

  and generally found like that put that [TS]

  point of os just some crazy guy in the [TS]

  woods he's listening to in writing up [TS]

  fake reports like I found that a little [TS]

  strange [TS]

  and weak have a I don't know a guiding [TS]

  force through the game it's like it's [TS]

  building up all this like interesting [TS]

  stuff the tapping and you're going [TS]

  around exploring after get the ax you [TS]

  have to do this you have to do that [TS]

  you're walking all over the place and [TS]

  then all of a sudden it's like oh we [TS]

  found it was just like this crazy guy [TS]

  making like making stuff up like I'm [TS]

  like why would he do with the crazy guy [TS]

  do that i would much rather the [TS]

  government research have had like you [TS]

  break into it and you go down there and [TS]

  as you're leaving like a government [TS]

  scientists is like dude what are you [TS]

  doing you know and but punctures your [TS]

  your paranoia about it mom that would [TS]

  have felt more reasonable to me this is [TS]

  so such a kind of arcane collection of [TS]

  things that have been all constructed [TS]

  together and it's all in the mind of the [TS]

  crazy you know dad if the dead kid who [TS]

  lives in his Shack or in his cave and I [TS]

  don't know it seemed it seemed a little [TS]

  a little too much to me too i I'd almost [TS]

  rather have had it just being been [TS]

  revealed that the government research [TS]

  station is a yeah a government research [TS]

  station yeah they're just like had [TS]

  taking soil samples were just doing our [TS]

  job here did you feel down here guy like [TS]

  you're totally a weirdo thanks for [TS]

  breaking our lock i guess i got a spare [TS]

  i can put on it but come on I am so when [TS]

  you say with you you would not happen at [TS]

  all though you wanted that pressure let [TS]

  out of that little part there instead of [TS]

  kept hanging for too long it would have [TS]

  been nice if Ned didn't like plant [TS]

  evidence you know I mean like sure if [TS]

  you some creepy guy lift listening in on [TS]

  the radio conversations and like kind of [TS]

  you know scaring you here and there by [TS]

  like coughing or whatever you find out [TS]

  but and planting it in the government [TS]

  section it's like a little crazy [TS]

  mastermind ploy to tour and yet so far [TS]

  like that why would you know I i'll [TS]

  accept a certain amount of the crazy guy [TS]

  out in the woods but that seemed awfully [TS]

  detailed of a plot to I don't know it [TS]

  just seems like it I it took me out of [TS]

  the game because it seemed to like a [TS]

  little bit too much coincidence trying [TS]

  to tie those things together i'd almost [TS]

  rather they had remained they've been [TS]

  untied and it just had been our [TS]

  imagination completely separate from [TS]

  this crazy guy who was in the woods send [TS]

  us down we got so paranoid that we went [TS]

  down this other path I don't think he [TS]

  needed to be involved I don't think it [TS]

  needs to have a fire and be destroyed [TS]

  and all of those things that that [TS]

  seemed the idea that I was a little [TS]

  disappointed in like his final message [TS]

  that he leads leaves you because it kind [TS]

  of like it didn't feel like it was [TS]

  consistent with this person right like I [TS]

  mean are they grieving or they totally [TS]

  crazy but they're trying to manipulate [TS]

  you but they're gonna leave you a [TS]

  goodbye message [TS]

  yeah I guess you found the body now I'm [TS]

  gonna go deeper into the woods but you [TS]

  can have my cave [TS]

  yeah and i think the starry overall [TS]

  would have worked might work better if [TS]

  there was instead of being adults if it [TS]

  was young kids because again the whole [TS]

  thing kind of reminds me of like this x [TS]

  like summer camp where you will spin out [TS]

  this old world of what's going on at [TS]

  summer camp in the creepy cabin in [TS]

  reality nothing is going on anywhere [TS]

  just a cabin is not currently being used [TS]

  because they didn't get enough [TS]

  registrations for camp this year but as [TS]

  a kid especially a preteen can you can [TS]

  spin it out into this whole yeah sort of [TS]

  adventure that's going on and in the end [TS]

  in the end they will be a boring [TS]

  explanation may be that you won't even [TS]

  founder maybe when you find it you were [TS]

  rejected and always remember that as a [TS]

  summer of the Haunted camp and the [TS]

  midnight XD escapades or whatever I mean [TS]

  what if it had been instead of crazy old [TS]

  guy being there for three years what if [TS]

  it had been the Sun was living out there [TS]

  for a couple months because he doesn't [TS]

  know what to do because his dad died but [TS]

  I'm saying like if the player characters [TS]

  in the game like it Delilah and you were [TS]

  you know we're young children instead [TS]

  because young kids get caught up in [TS]

  these types of stories all the time as [TS]

  an adult what you would hope is that the [TS]

  adults would see what's going on is just [TS]

  prosaic and then like Jason saying is [TS]

  basically to get wrapped up and you [TS]

  think the game is leading up to become [TS]

  grants some grand conspiracy and then to [TS]

  find out it's just like you said one [TS]

  maniac too far [TS]

  that seems like something that as an [TS]

  adult you feel like you wouldn't you [TS]

  wouldn't fall for either you either it's [TS]

  gonna be unreliable narrator and it [TS]

  turns out that the nothing you've done [TS]

  and seen can be trusted because this guy [TS]

  is really damaged and that could be [TS]

  entirely different game but if it is [TS]

  this game is essentially reliable [TS]

  narrator everything you see exactly [TS]

  happens exactly the way it does and you [TS]

  can argue with I'll about it but in the [TS]

  end it's just a series of normal events [TS]

  it does seem kind of anti climactic to [TS]

  to have a turn out to be as simple and [TS]

  straightforward as as the the story is I [TS]

  disagree because i feel like in the [TS]

  moment as you're playing the game you've [TS]

  been there for three hours you discover [TS]

  the government facility they're set on [TS]

  fire things are going crazy and you're [TS]

  wondering what the heck is going on and [TS]

  then you figure out that it's entirely [TS]

  Ned and when you figure that out that's [TS]

  Ned the force is burning up around you [TS]

  you found a whole cavern you're freaked [TS]

  out because you're led to another [TS]

  tracking area it says for Henry go up [TS]

  and you're freaking out and you're [TS]

  thinking about what you need to do next [TS]

  and you need to get through to delilahs [TS]

  lookouts and get in the chopper for me [TS]

  when I went to his cabin for the first [TS]

  time I barely looked around I looked at [TS]

  a few things and sprint it out because I [TS]

  was terrified of the fire and to me that [TS]

  made everything else in the game take a [TS]

  backseat to your relationship with [TS]

  Delilah and that was just the last nail [TS]

  in the coffin for like this game is all [TS]

  about you and Delilah and nothing about [TS]

  any of the red herrings because you're [TS]

  right everything else that happens with [TS]

  Ned and brian is relatively tame so I [TS]

  feel like instead of saying it's [TS]

  anticlimactic for that one magical [TS]

  perfect playthrough you have at the very [TS]

  beginning it works perfectly because you [TS]

  discover that you run over and then the [TS]

  last moments of the game are when you [TS]

  talk to the lila on the headset in her [TS]

  lookout and that is where the little [TS]

  signature of the game leaves its mark [TS]

  and says hey this is your emotional [TS]

  wreck right now because of everything [TS]

  else now here we are sitting and talking [TS]

  about how how not problematic how tame [TS]

  it was and i agree i feel like there [TS]

  could be much more done to paint Ned as [TS]

  this crazy guy maybe a more sinister [TS]

  last thing instead [TS]

  yeah I ran out books but there could [TS]

  have been more there but I feel like [TS]

  instead of going in the direction of tie [TS]

  everything together more if there could [TS]

  be more in the direction of let's make [TS]

  net a crazier character and let the [TS]

  chips fall where they may because you [TS]

  know what that's like maybe someone in [TS]

  the woods is actually doing something to [TS]

  screw with you and make your summer [TS]

  miserable i don't know but either way [TS]

  that's life and for me that makes [TS]

  Delilah's relationship all the more [TS]

  important in the game because we're [TS]

  going from the game is that they want it [TS]

  to be that they want you [TS]

  the game is about going to escape and [TS]

  realizing there is no escape that from [TS]

  yourself and from you your issues and [TS]

  problems that like allowed the [TS]

  relationship allows a similar way like [TS]

  they're not particularly subtle subtle [TS]

  about it and they realize that most [TS]

  people playing the game trying as well [TS]

  as they can to try to make Henry make [TS]

  better choices are going to as i did [TS]

  when i play resist the idea that [TS]

  suddenly there's going two [TS]

  anything romantic between you and [TS]

  Delilah because you're still married and [TS]

  you should still care about your wife [TS]

  and like when they have you leaving the [TS]

  cabin they have your wedding ring [TS]

  strategically place but the door and [TS]

  choose to put on or not like it really [TS]

  hits you over the head but it's clear [TS]

  they want you two to think about these [TS]

  issues and and make choices and I mean [TS]

  like I don't you know I you and I would [TS]

  say that that is the the overall it's a [TS]

  it's a strange is a strange game to give [TS]

  that kind of message the idea that [TS]

  people have problems in their life and a [TS]

  lot of times it seems like you can [TS]

  escape with them through some other kind [TS]

  of adventure but in the end you have to [TS]

  come back and face them and no matter [TS]

  what you do you're gonna find yourself [TS]

  in an empty cabin talking to Delilah [TS]

  over her own headset and she's gone [TS]

  right and he and you know you know and [TS]

  what you have to do is go back to your [TS]

  wife and that i think was the game is [TS]

  trying to get so if if there was [TS]

  something exciting and consequential [TS]

  like you busted this big conspiracy or [TS]

  found out the earth is hollow and filled [TS]

  with more locks like that whoa that's [TS]

  the knot the game they were making at [TS]

  all like that would be like this is [TS]

  great in the beginning I was sad because [TS]

  my wife was i but I set my wife back to [TS]

  Australia or whatever but now this is [TS]

  great i'm saving the world's reserves [TS]

  conspiracy is a lot of games you can [TS]

  murder Morlocks we don't need any more [TS]

  of those right there are discovered them [TS]

  or any kind of you like it has to be it [TS]

  has to be a story that like that doesn't [TS]

  you know that there isn't some big grand [TS]

  thing that you are doing we got to be [TS]

  particularly heroic or save the day or [TS]

  anything like that it has to lead you [TS]

  back to yourself [TS]

  no I like the the thing that I thought [TS]

  is really the culmination of this story [TS]

  is when you have to go down in the cave [TS]

  and you find the dead body and that [TS]

  reveals that is what unravels the story [TS]

  and so that's that's your crowning [TS]

  moment is this really sad thing where is [TS]

  this kid fell and died and did he fall [TS]

  well yes yes he fell John that I mean I [TS]

  think the game mostly leave that open [TS]

  yeah I suppose but there's ways we don't [TS]

  use on we he fell how he fell remains to [TS]

  be seen but he fell a long way I think [TS]

  it's a little too well stage for it to [TS]

  be a fall [TS]

  I don't like the rocks are covering his [TS]

  header but I do leave it open i mean [TS]

  because you know medical crazy from the [TS]

  loss of his son or like I mean that his [TS]

  son also said that [TS]

  and like climbing so maybe his dad was [TS]

  forcing them to climb over like it [TS]

  doesn't really matter in the end that's [TS]

  not a key plot point in the game but I [TS]

  do i do feel like that is a court moment [TS]

  because you know I when I going through [TS]

  the cave [TS]

  I realized that the Sun was probably [TS]

  dead down there just because I played a [TS]

  lot of games right a lot of stories but [TS]

  even saying you even saying there is [TS]

  there you see that she was a shoot you [TS]

  again as a lot again heavily Telegraph [TS]

  but even even knowing that and even [TS]

  having accepted that from early on i [TS]

  still found it affecting when I on the [TS]

  bottom music cue starts up then and it's [TS]

  a it's a very it and you do feel like [TS]

  you discovered even though obviously you [TS]

  can led to this point through a series [TS]

  of things that you basically have no [TS]

  choice in a felt very very nervous [TS]

  stepping over the body like that was the [TS]

  only option down there and I was like [TS]

  three I felt really weird and very [TS]

  uncomfortable and that way like you know [TS]

  at that point like I wanted to have a [TS]

  conversation with Delilah and you have [TS]

  to get out of the cave before you can do [TS]

  that yeah that yeah you could also be a [TS]

  real bastard to her like after that if i [TS]

  accidentally was and that changes your [TS]

  relationship with her a time you could [TS]

  be like well it's totally your fault [TS]

  because you didn't radio this in and [TS]

  she's like what how dare you say that to [TS]

  me like she gets pissed and you're like [TS]

  everything's kind of ruined after that a [TS]

  little bit but i did that by accident it [TS]

  wasn't my fault but yeah it totally did [TS]

  anyone everyone was probably really nice [TS]

  we're not monsters yes I'm obviously a [TS]

  monster it was an accident i was playing [TS]

  on the on the playstation and the button [TS]

  it was dark i don't know you want two [TS]

  people want to talk about the camera [TS]

  my understanding is that if you're [TS]

  playing on the computer you get to take [TS]

  pictures and have the whole help to the [TS]

  end in that you can have them print them [TS]

  out and send them to you later [TS]

  yeah i thought that was a really fun [TS]

  touch i kept having these moments where [TS]

  I thought oh I gotta take a picture of [TS]

  this which I just thought was all a lot [TS]

  of fun to to have that as a mechanic and [TS]

  in the game that is pointless [TS]

  it has nothing to do with anything it's [TS]

  just you're taking pictures of your stay [TS]

  in the wilderness on this camera i used [TS]

  it to document what i considered [TS]

  evidence so I went into pictures of your [TS]

  side [TS]

  I just I took a photo of his crazy wall [TS]

  before we left the lookout station for [TS]

  the last time yeah me too but may I took [TS]

  photos of you know I I knew it was going [TS]

  to be saving my photos so i took [TS]

  beautiful nature photography and then I [TS]

  got to the end of the game and realized [TS]

  that if you play it on the PlayStation 4 [TS]

  you don't get to get prints of your [TS]

  photos oh I really hope they add that [TS]

  because i took some awesome pictures can [TS]

  you share them on the way you're getting [TS]

  that you can't even see it on about man [TS]

  that's too bad it's like when you are [TS]

  John when you get the credit they show [TS]

  you the pictures that you tip yep that's [TS]

  all I know they came out good yeah they [TS]

  should they do show your pictures but [TS]

  you don't get the web the URL you can go [TS]

  to and you don't get to order prints i'm [TS]

  always did it the first time I didn't [TS]

  get to do that so I played it again on [TS]

  steam and it was iight i started playing [TS]

  my second place endurance team to start [TS]

  I can make up for that i found the [TS]

  gameplay even better on steam actually [TS]

  then with the controller on the [TS]

  PlayStation of course the I mean that [TS]

  the nice touch in the disposable camera [TS]

  is that it belonged to brian and brian [TS]

  and and so as you go back you see all [TS]

  the pictures that you took and then you [TS]

  see the pictures that he took yep yep [TS]

  it's a nice thats that's that that's [TS]

  your last little punch that you get as [TS]

  you forgot that too is also internet [TS]

  using the Sun yeah I want to ask anyone [TS]

  else in the very very beginning when you [TS]

  first get into the woods like after [TS]

  you've kind of established our base and [TS]

  you're walking around there's a spot [TS]

  where you can hear wind chimes and you [TS]

  drove me crazy i couldn't find them [TS]

  anywhere and then at the very end of the [TS]

  game you hear the wind chimes in you [TS]

  know the crazy guys hang out Ned right [TS]

  that's his name [TS]

  whose banana guys know that created you [TS]

  hear the wind chimes where he has like [TS]

  that lawn chair on his little like you [TS]

  know vista terrace that he made and I [TS]

  figured out that the wind chimes you [TS]

  hear when you're in the woods have to be [TS]

  those right yeah it'sit's uh according [TS]

  to the reddit post about it whenever you [TS]

  go below his window in the game you hear [TS]

  this faint chime and then you don't get [TS]

  to it until the end I thought that was a [TS]

  really nice touch [TS]

  I know because its overall fall out [TS]

  where they make it like it's just if you [TS]

  happen to find that I out on day one [TS]

  the game is over because that's that's [TS]

  the title again a different type of game [TS]

  that can be fun for starting out of [TS]

  people but it all [TS]

  requires a bigger budget and some people [TS]

  find not fun so uh let's listen in while [TS]

  wrapping up here i would like to get [TS]

  your final sort of final judgments final [TS]

  verdict on fire watch as a whole and how [TS]

  you how you how you view it overall [TS]

  everybody's been pretty positive but I [TS]

  want to check in with everybody and get [TS]

  a get a closing remark Tony what's your [TS]

  thought about Firewatch overall I think [TS]

  generally positive i enjoyed it i would [TS]

  recommend it to people especially if [TS]

  they liked other story games like gone [TS]

  home for the walking dead games or [TS]

  things like that i mean i think there [TS]

  are a lot of gamers out there who seemed [TS]

  to really hate those games and be angry [TS]

  that they exist which is a not you know [TS]

  I don't know it's sad [TS]

  there are so many existence of this key [TS]

  does not hurt you [TS]

  there are a thousand games where you can [TS]

  be a space marine the existence of the [TS]

  same does not mean one less space marine [TS]

  game there's still more space brain [TS]

  games and you can never play so yeah I [TS]

  enjoyed it i'm always looking for more [TS]

  good story games out there Brian what [TS]

  are your final thoughts any more games [TS]

  just like Tony said where I can have a [TS]

  non-gamer friend over and like get a few [TS]

  beers and play through a game like I [TS]

  would play or watch a movie with them i [TS]

  am 100-percent sold this game to me at [TS]

  least is worth getting a ps4 or making [TS]

  sure you have a good mac to play cuz my [TS]

  2012 mac pro macbook pro did not i do [TS]

  this very well at all [TS]

  yeah my 5k imac did just fine so I was [TS]

  having my 2011 macbook pro had some [TS]

  exciting framerate issues but it but I [TS]

  made it through that was its good friend [TS]

  what are your final thoughts on fire [TS]

  watch I thought it was incredibly moving [TS]

  despite its in like little flaws I i [TS]

  have the same sort of overwhelming [TS]

  missed feels that I've had with other [TS]

  games like this with games like got home [TS]

  I did I will admit I had to spoil myself [TS]

  somewhat as soon as I as soon as i got [TS]

  knocked out i had to spoil myself [TS]

  because I was so terrified that this was [TS]

  going to go in a direction that i did [TS]

  not want that i was going to be like I [TS]

  can't play this game it's going to make [TS]

  me unhappy [TS]

  i spelled myself just enough to know [TS]

  that they were gonna be there were going [TS]

  to be any guns in the game and then [TS]

  continues I was like okay I can I can [TS]

  enjoy myself but I i thought the game [TS]

  was wildly affecting primarily because [TS]

  of the way that the story interact with [TS]

  nature and plays off your sort of your [TS]

  feelings about Izzy how how everything [TS]

  can get heightened in the woods how [TS]

  everything can get twisted and turned [TS]

  out of proportion and you know the [TS]

  sounds and music and freaky wind chimes [TS]

  and random abandoned houses in the in [TS]

  the middle of the woods [TS]

  even if they don't have anything you [TS]

  know any regard to the primary plot they [TS]

  still they still capture you they still [TS]

  they still make you excited and [TS]

  terrified to know what's going on a [TS]

  disembodied voices so great I i really [TS]

  enjoyed playing it I want to play it [TS]

  through again exhale only played it [TS]

  through once i want to play it through [TS]

  again and make some slightly different [TS]

  choices because I i think the voice [TS]

  acting in this game was magnificent and [TS]

  I really I kind of just want to hear [TS]

  more of more of the various dialogue [TS]

  that they had that the actors record [TS]

  because i really enjoy I enjoy listening [TS]

  to Henry and Delilah targets at this is [TS]

  really really good banter [TS]

  it's a good great audio [TS]

  choose-your-own-adventure overall I [TS]

  thought it was was really nice it it [TS]

  reminded me a lot of gone home and and [TS]

  hit me the same way that braid did in a [TS]

  strange way i'm just kinda with the with [TS]

  the uncomfortable feels the i'm not [TS]

  really sure if I like you you feel [TS]

  embarrassed you also feel like you [TS]

  learned something and and there's a [TS]

  sense of wistfulness and longing and [TS]

  more most of all it made me want to get [TS]

  off of the computer and go to Lake Tahoe [TS]

  and spend a weekend in the woods today I [TS]

  definitely had that like yeah let's go [TS]

  take a hike now I can watch out for [TS]

  crazy people at the f10 with your final [TS]

  verdict done [TS]

  Firewatch i did like it I I came around [TS]

  to it but i love the little details that [TS]

  that build character in addition to the [TS]

  tremendously great voice acting and dial [TS]

  like when you can find a hat in the very [TS]

  beginning and then like the hats there [TS]

  with you and if you don't find the hat [TS]

  then you don't have a hat and the every [TS]

  time he left the watchtower he'd grab [TS]

  the ledge to like swing down stairs like [TS]

  that's it's so human and like you get [TS]

  really drawn in with moments like that [TS]

  or you know with them [TS]

  Delilah's final drawing of you like [TS]

  however you answered how you look that's [TS]

  how the drawing was on her desk and with [TS]

  little inside jokes that you made or [TS]

  didn't make throughout the game are are [TS]

  all there or they're not there and so I [TS]

  really enjoyed all of those attention to [TS]

  detail that's you know most people [TS]

  wouldn't find but the people that do [TS]

  find it have that little bit of delight [TS]

  when they when they play but I'm you [TS]

  know I would have liked it to be you [TS]

  know a strong lady going through the [TS]

  woods who fell in love with the wire I [TS]

  thought that might have been a little [TS]

  different that would have been cool [TS]

  twist on it but I think as it as it [TS]

  played out it was a really great game [TS]

  and they did a really great job with the [TS]

  budget they had John what's your verdict [TS]

  so I tend to like story games like this [TS]

  for myself like I like to play them but [TS]

  i also like to recommend them because [TS]

  Firewatch unlike so many games these [TS]

  days for the most part does not ask you [TS]

  to do something dexterity wise with a [TS]

  time limit with a purpose that doesn't [TS]

  ask you to memorize the move set to jump [TS]

  on moving platforms to shoot things in [TS]

  general no matter how clumsy you are [TS]

  from moment to moment with the [TS]

  controller or the mouse and the keyboard [TS]

  you can you you will be successful in [TS]

  the game is a lot of games that don't [TS]

  have any states where you can die so [TS]

  easily or they're not asking you to do a [TS]

  mechanic they're not a virtual athletic [TS]

  competition and that lets more people [TS]

  enjoy the things that the games you are [TS]

  uniquely positioned to do so I i like [TS]

  the type of game for myself is just kind [TS]

  of a break-in to enjoy different types [TS]

  of games it lets games look beautiful [TS]

  like this game looks because those [TS]

  people because the Gamemakers can put [TS]

  their money and their effort into other [TS]

  places like the scenery or the the [TS]

  dialogue or the voice acting [TS]

  whereas if you spend the entire game [TS]

  hunting game development process holding [TS]

  a game engine for some you know [TS]

  shooter a platformer you don't have time [TS]

  for that the stuff so that's one respect [TS]

  that I really really love this game of [TS]

  the other thing is the more unique to [TS]

  this game than the other games is I like [TS]

  the fact that this game was even though [TS]

  structurally so similar to the games [TS]

  we've all mentioned that are generally [TS]

  not hand-eye coordination games have [TS]

  dialogue trees have a story have [TS]

  branching plots of varying degrees that [TS]

  this game was different than those in [TS]

  that it was a different kind of story in [TS]

  a different kind of setting with things [TS]

  that we didn't expect we spend most of [TS]

  this podcast talking about how this game [TS]

  subverted your expectations of having a [TS]

  protagonist who was include the [TS]

  admirable of having to forcing you to [TS]

  inhabit this character has bad things [TS]

  happen to them of having a plot that [TS]

  doesn't follow the traditional structure [TS]

  culminating in some grand conspiracy of [TS]

  having time a melancholy bummer kind of [TS]

  climax and resolution of the story and [TS]

  there's a lot of sameness and games even [TS]

  within the games are doing now isn't [TS]

  gone home totally different than you [TS]

  know [TS]

  call of duty you're not going home is [TS]

  different call of duty but there's still [TS]

  so much greater range of the games can [TS]

  take even if you think like the range of [TS]

  novels and movies are still much broader [TS]

  than the envelope of things that games [TS]

  feel like they're allowed to do if this [TS]

  was a movie no my bad not like oh this [TS]

  is really breaking new ground for motors [TS]

  plenty of movies about people in the [TS]

  woods who are sad weird things happen to [TS]

  you and you don't think anything of it [TS]

  but four games to do that I think that's [TS]

  one of the most important things this [TS]

  game does it shows you don't have to [TS]

  tell the same kind of stories in the [TS]

  same kind of way in the same kind of [TS]

  settings all the time and granted yet is [TS]

  big you know the w white dude who is the [TS]

  main character I can't break ground on [TS]

  all fronts but I just like I was like [TS]

  the idea that it is that is definitely a [TS]

  different weird kind of game even if it [TS]

  doesn't appeal to people and you're like [TS]

  you know what I would like a different [TS]

  kind of game this game and it's weird [TS]

  and didn't didn't quite work for me I [TS]

  want there to be more games like this so [TS]

  even though i think something like gone [TS]

  home was like a tighter and better [TS]

  realized in the end fire watches its own [TS]

  unique snowflake that I'm just glad [TS]

  exist and i want to see I'm glad he's [TS]

  doing well financially it seems to be [TS]

  anyway because i want to see more people [TS]

  say I'm [TS]

  a weird idea for a game to like and you [TS]

  know anything summer-like text [TS]

  adventures and much more adventurous how [TS]

  you can type whatever you want i can [TS]

  text adventures about anything I want [TS]

  more games like Firewatch time I really [TS]

  enjoy playing it now I i agree fifteen [TS]

  or twenty dollars and three or four [TS]

  hours i wish there were more games that [TS]

  this is the kind of game I want to play [TS]

  I don't want to invest in a game that's [TS]

  good i'm going to put 200 hours in [TS]

  because I'm never gonna put 200 or 100 [TS]

  or 50 or 20 hours in a game i'm just not [TS]

  going to do it but something like this [TS]

  which is substantial to me it's more [TS]

  than a movie but it's also not a thing [TS]

  that i have to you know just become a [TS]

  lifestyle either i really like these [TS]

  kinds of games i would love to play more [TS]

  of them [TS]

  I I i think it's interesting that this [TS]

  character is kind of off-putting but I I [TS]

  found him I found him off putting to but [TS]

  I guess that's part of the point is is [TS]

  your you know you're trying to be put in [TS]

  a position like we were saying where you [TS]

  know wherever you go there you are you [TS]

  know we're not happy he's not happy with [TS]

  himself and we're not happy with him and [TS]

  we're him too so I like that about it [TS]

  and I'm what I will take away from it is [TS]

  the beauty as much as like kind of [TS]

  quibble with the red herrings and the [TS]

  ultimate resolution of this mystery and [TS]

  I wish it was a little more puncturing [TS]

  of just like oh there are no mysteries [TS]

  that was all in your head there's [TS]

  there's just these different things i [TS]

  would have liked that I think better i [TS]

  will walk away with the memory of [TS]

  wandering around in the woods and that [TS]

  was really great and it was beautiful [TS]

  and it was fun and I I you know I can't [TS]

  believe that I did it but I actually [TS]

  advocated for more boring wandering and [TS]

  looking at the woods because i actually [TS]

  thought that was really great and [TS]

  feeling like that's a thing that game [TS]

  can do is make you feel like you're [TS]

  living in this world that it's it's [TS]

  immersive in a way that in the end it [TS]

  becomes a real space that you have [TS]

  memories of being in this space even [TS]

  though it's not a real space and you [TS]

  weren't actually in it you know I that [TS]

  is the kind of magic the games can do [TS]

  that no other form can really do that [TS]

  that feeling like your computer there [TS]

  and and I will always appreciate that [TS]

  about fire [TS]

  because of how beautiful that world was [TS]

  so just wait for fire watch vr imagine [TS]

  then you'll know you'll never need to go [TS]

  anywhere to take a hike in the woods [TS]

  alright well we're going to close up the [TS]

  old video game video game door to the [TS]

  clubhouse for now but hopefully there [TS]

  will be another game that will emerge at [TS]

  some point in the near future that we [TS]

  will we will reconvene and because i [TS]

  would like to play more games like this [TS]

  one like fire watch I'd like to thank my [TS]

  panel for joining me to talk about a [TS]

  video game Tony sindelar thank you Jason [TS]

  was fun [TS]

  Tiffany are meant thank you thank you [TS]

  already called well thanks feel better [TS]

  Thank You president Hamilton thanks for [TS]

  being here very happy to be here thank [TS]

  you so much [TS]

  and of course John siracusa thank you [TS]

  about like 650 hours and destiny i'm [TS]

  going to be really prepared for destiny [TS]

  podcast we have it [TS]

  ok already did that so noted thanks [TS]

  everybody out there for listening we [TS]

  will see you next time [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  you know when I first heard the term [TS]

  walking simulator I thought it was just [TS]

  a mean person on the Internet calling [TS]

  these games like claiming just walk [TS]

  around your house it's same thing you [TS]

  think is better and that's the walking [TS]

  simulator but when I went on steam it's [TS]

  an actual genre in their directory for [TS]

  video games is walking simulators and I [TS]

  thought really this is what we're [TS]

  calling these now they're they're much [TS]

  more than that that's not a no as I said [TS]

  I think I don't know another product [TS]

  number which one that they did the [TS]

  dawning of the the true vr worker when [TS]

  the one of the largest categories and [TS]

  most profitable categories games as [TS]

  literal hiking simulators where there is [TS]

  no game of the biggest people hiking in [TS]

  the woods all the time there's no game [TS]

  they're like you just go in the woods [TS]

  because it's a beautiful place to be and [TS]

  you so much to our people gamefly [TS]

  everything so you know I don't mean like [TS]

  like accept these are called walking [TS]

  simulator is somewhat drizzly is like [TS]

  all you just kind of going through a [TS]

  story but not like literally like this [TS]

  we have like you know truck simulator is [TS]

  driver talking about the country at [TS]

  least thing you're driving something [TS]

  like hiking simulator is it is just [TS]

  woods man that's it get a little Zen [TS]

  kind of some people they will only [TS]

  settle for murder simulators that's not [TS]

  dating you know I started playing euro [TS]

  truck simulator and I don't do any of [TS]

  the game stuff I just drive around and [TS]

  listen to podcasts and it's amazing like [TS]

  i feel bad and the game developers who [TS]

  actually put a really deep game in there [TS]

  i do nothing with it [TS]