The Incomparable

286: No One in a Powdered Wig is Scrappy

 

  the entire article number 286 februari [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason L we [TS]

  are going to talk about something a [TS]

  little different for us this is in the [TS]

  realm of musical theater [TS]

  I know I know who would have thought but [TS]

  it's at least it's science fiction music [TS]

  nope it's not that [TS]

  and it's also a musical theater that [TS]

  none of us have actually seen so it's [TS]

  essentially we're talking about an album [TS]

  basically which is the two hours and 23 [TS]

  minutes and 46 tracks of the original [TS]

  broadway cast recording of a musical [TS]

  called Hamilton by lin-manuel Miranda [TS]

  which is taking many parts of the [TS]

  culture by storm [TS]

  it is a wild success it is hard to get a [TS]

  ticket i believe our own Lex Friedman [TS]

  for his birthday in november i think got [TS]

  a ticket for September of the following [TS]

  year to see it [TS]

  yeah yeah it's hard it's a it's a it's a [TS]

  tough ticket and the reason is because [TS]

  it is spectacularly good and fun to [TS]

  listen to and once you start you can't [TS]

  stop [TS]

  and it's much better than you might [TS]

  expect that a musical that is largely [TS]

  inspired by a biography of america's [TS]

  first secretary of the Treasury might be [TS]

  talking about this with me are the [TS]

  following wonderful guests chipset earth [TS]

  hello it was my understanding that this [TS]

  was actually a historical doctor who [TS]

  episode it could be just wait for it [TS]

  um monte actually you can be my [TS]

  right-hand man if Y is my favorite line [TS]

  says device [TS]

  ok David lower is here straight from the [TS]

  theater in our dad later Jason yeah mhm [TS]

  and serenity caldwell who's been [TS]

  Hamilton a pretty pretty much [TS]

  consistently for the last two months [TS]

  I'm over 19 and my mind is older alright [TS]

  well that works and story checks out [TS]

  yeah seems seems to be rice yeah so [TS]

  Hamilton any opening statements i read [TS]

  in Siracusa here [TS]

  oh my god it's gonna be a three hour [TS]

  podcast and I have nobody to help us two [TS]

  and a half hours go ahead I'll catch up [TS]

  this should not be this thing should not [TS]

  exist [TS]

  this is impossible this is a simpsons [TS]

  gag this is wrought me dr. Zaius stuff [TS]

  and the piano anymore [TS]

  of course you can well I didn't before [TS]

  not to say stuff [TS]

  dr. Zaius doctor is dr. Zaius doctors is [TS]

  his previous [TS]

  I love legitimate v8 I don't understand [TS]

  how this wonderful thing can exist and [TS]

  more to the point can be so good [TS]

  there are few places in this musical [TS]

  where I do get of a little bit of a [TS]

  simpsons parody music vibe there are a [TS]

  few lines that i think are kind of [TS]

  clunkers where it's it's so on-the-nose [TS]

  I'm like yeah okay i would laugh at [TS]

  added if it were not surrounded by [TS]

  brilliance but it is it is ninety-nine [TS]

  percent brilliance and one percent kind [TS]

  of cringe that just as Hamilton it's a [TS]

  rap musical oh yes right yeah really [TS]

  as somebody who is a huge musical [TS]

  theater fanatic but not a big rap [TS]

  hip-hop fan like i enjoy it casually but [TS]

  I'm not the person who's like I know all [TS]

  of these artists and i can i can rap for [TS]

  you [TS]

  I'm not a I'm not a female white rapper [TS]

  surprised this show completely bowled me [TS]

  over in such a weird way where I've been [TS]

  hearing little bits of it i had been [TS]

  hearing rumors and talk and like little [TS]

  like Oh Hamilton Hamilton Hamilton [TS]

  Hamilton and just kept on popping up in [TS]

  why do you keep saying that will do you [TS]

  answer [TS]

  well and i was saying before before we [TS]

  started you know I actually walked past [TS]

  Hamilton started off broadway at the [TS]

  public theater and I was in New York out [TS]

  the second or third night that it began [TS]

  running at the public and I remember [TS]

  walking past the public and seeing these [TS]

  big basically neon yellow of posters [TS]

  that are like who lives who dies who [TS]

  tells your story and then an outline of [TS]

  hamilton and with Hamilton written in [TS]

  big block letters at the bottom and I [TS]

  remember looking at that being like [TS]

  Hamilton maybe I don't maybe this is [TS]

  like some artists that i don't know i'm [TS]

  completely missing this this is weird i [TS]

  saw people queuing I'm like well I could [TS]

  find out what it is now I'm just gonna [TS]

  keep on walking and that was my [TS]

  experience with Hamilton for six months [TS]

  where I was just like I kept on seeing [TS]

  little bits to it alright see someone [TS]

  mentioned oh I'm you know I tough an old [TS]

  friend of mine from high school is in [TS]

  the cast of hamilton and I was like oh [TS]

  that's really cool maybe i'll go get in [TS]

  get some time and then I then there was [TS]

  the Ben Brantley is new york times [TS]

  review was like mortgage your children [TS]

  to see their food orders your house and [TS]

  and that's not so Morgan wait for your [TS]

  children yea it is was totally mortgage [TS]

  my children to see this [TS]

  yeah but that's a bit but so I was saw [TS]

  that and I'm like what is the show [TS]

  because i actually don't know and i [TS]

  started reading I'm like oh that's [TS]

  interesting a musical about Alexander [TS]

  Hamilton and my mother came to visit me [TS]

  in early September right after the show [TS]

  had basically come to Broadway and I'm [TS]

  like oh well maybe we'll maybe we'll [TS]

  stand by for this musical and we'll get [TS]

  tickets for we got tickets for [TS]

  gentleman's guide to love and murder and [TS]

  I'm like well maybe we'll also since the [TS]

  matinee maybe we'll stand by for the [TS]

  evening show and we walked by just to [TS]

  see if they were doing a ham for ham [TS]

  like do we walk by the richard rodgers [TS]

  there are 700 people there and my just [TS]

  drops because you know i'm an old school [TS]

  musical theatre which is to say well not [TS]

  old school like old-school for me [TS]

  meaning i slept overnight to get tickets [TS]

  for rent [TS]

  like I remember the early rent lotteries [TS]

  before Broadway had lotteries when run [TS]

  was doing his touring cast and [TS]

  everything else and and those lotteries [TS]

  were you know they were verb like it [TS]

  inspiring and exciting but it was like a [TS]

  hundred and fifty people and to see 700 [TS]

  people crowding as close as possible to [TS]

  this little theatre and then later to [TS]

  see all the him for hams as soon as we [TS]

  got in the car after going to see a [TS]

  gentleman's guide to love and murder [TS]

  which was a fabulous show i immediately [TS]

  bought the Hamilton soundtrack and I'm [TS]

  like all right I'm just gonna listen to [TS]

  it because someone says it's sung [TS]

  through so it's kind of like you know [TS]

  you can enjoy it like you might leave [TS]

  mrs. so I'm just gonna do it and so I [TS]

  started the Hamilton soundtrack at the [TS]

  start of the new york drive and I [TS]

  finished it at 1i am at the at the end [TS]

  of my driveway literally i finished two [TS]

  lives who dies who tells your story as i [TS]

  was pulling up into into our driveway [TS]

  and opportunity to solve every minute [TS]

  yeah exactly because i was just like [TS]

  what the first what is [TS]

  this what is this entire that has made [TS]

  me feel so emotions so many emotions and [TS]

  I'm so confused on why why why is this [TS]

  suddenly become all i can think of about [TS]

  for the next you know week and that was [TS]

  that was this that was the impetus for [TS]

  me like getting obsessed about Hamilton [TS]

  is I just listen to this thing and I [TS]

  immediately want to listen to it again [TS]

  and then every time someone brought it [TS]

  up for the next three four and now [TS]

  anytime someone talks about Hamilton I'm [TS]

  like I need to listen to the song [TS]

  soundtrack again which is crazy when a [TS]

  friend of mine asked me on social media [TS]

  you know why why are people into this i [TS]

  don't understand this and i said it is [TS]

  fantastic it's only yeah it's andy and [TS]

  not cause fault that I'm into this thing [TS]

  because he tweeted about the the sale [TS]

  that Google Music add that was they were [TS]

  selling it for two dollars to stinking [TS]

  dollars yeah we're afraid that he used [TS]

  so I get in I go nuts and this friend [TS]

  asked me why is everybody talking about [TS]

  Hamilton it's just that good here's the [TS]

  show and she's response wait [TS]

  people are getting this crazy over a [TS]

  cast album people haven't been able to [TS]

  see it yet it's just the castle [TS]

  yes you're just that good some very good [TS]

  cast album Hamilton the quality of the [TS]

  Hamilton cast our has been really [TS]

  inconvenient for me because a few months [TS]

  ago i said i am out of touch with what's [TS]

  going on Broadway because i live in [TS]

  Seattle and broadway lives in New York [TS]

  like a jerk [TS]

  apologies to anybody who lives in New [TS]

  York is not a jerk so I started a blog [TS]

  Broadway away dot com on the grounds [TS]

  that i live away from broadway and I [TS]

  said what I'm going to do is I'm going [TS]

  to catch up on broadway and we learn [TS]

  everything about Broadway I'm gonna know [TS]

  what's happening and there's all these [TS]

  cast albums on spotify which is great it [TS]

  was gonna say alright what have I missed [TS]

  I don't really know what happens in [TS]

  passions i dunno what happens in [TS]

  passions but that's that sort of thing [TS]

  so I'm just gonna listen to a whole [TS]

  bunch of cast albums read books and know [TS]

  what's going on [TS]

  the problem is i just listened to [TS]

  Hamilton over and over and over and over [TS]

  again and I have to stop messaging know [TS]

  you need to give Sunset Boulevard [TS]

  another truck is a song of Sunset [TS]

  Boulevard and you know right back into [TS]

  Hamilton over and over and over and over [TS]

  again it's tough it's tough at the [TS]

  fascination to I mean we we we've said [TS]

  it is about a guy that a lot of people [TS]

  have never even heard of when we [TS]

  mentioned Hamilton on Twitter are in [TS]

  regards to this show and some other [TS]

  stuff that we've been working on [TS]

  I've heard from a bunch of people [TS]

  outside of the united states who have no [TS]

  idea not only what the show is but who [TS]

  this person is [TS]

  Americans would probably know hamilton [TS]

  from him being on the ten-dollar bill [TS]

  and from that got milk ad probably the [TS]

  who shot Alexander Hamilton in that [TS]

  famous duel board and yet [TS]

  lin-manuel Miranda while on vacation [TS]

  with his honeymoon you might have been [TS]

  trying since anyone he he read the book [TS]

  Alexander Hamilton by ron chernow which [TS]

  is a a long but good book about a [TS]

  biography of Alexander Hamilton they [TS]

  have now put a Hamilton logo on it [TS]

  because you know marketing like putting [TS]

  tom cruise on the cover of of the firm [TS]

  War of the Worlds sure [TS]

  ok now major of broadway cast recording [TS]

  and the point of Miranda was he wanted [TS]

  to tell the story of this a lesser-known [TS]

  character from the American Revolution [TS]

  and also i think really appreciated the [TS]

  the source of Hamilton which is that he [TS]

  was an immigrant famously as the show [TS]

  starts you know he is his father left [TS]

  his mother died he ended up at a very [TS]

  young age sea first I've seen awful [TS]

  conditions and squalor in the Caribbean [TS]

  and then eventually proving his worth as [TS]

  a as a brilliant young worker and people [TS]

  pulled their money and sent him to get [TS]

  an education on the mainland and that [TS]

  that's how that's how he starts and in a [TS]

  very short amount of time because he's [TS]

  in the right place at the right time [TS]

  with his incredible gifts he becomes a [TS]

  key figure in the American Revolution [TS]

  and the aftermath [TS]

  it's a great story and I think met [TS]

  Miranda's thought was I can't believe [TS]

  nobody's really told this story so so he [TS]

  took it upon himself to to do it and he [TS]

  does it in a whole bunch of different [TS]

  musical styles it is [TS]

  kind of unfair to say that this is a [TS]

  hip-hop musical it's a lot of different [TS]

  styles including a lot of hip-hop you [TS]

  know that but there's there's other [TS]

  styles too i think you you don't give [TS]

  him enough credit he's he's playing with [TS]

  thought with all the parts are absent a [TS]

  Swedish british pop and classic musical [TS]

  theater style and even you know touches [TS]

  of gilbert and sullivan so much so much [TS]

  its yeah I have so many friends who work [TS]

  in New York theater and and even at the [TS]

  public theater that this has been on [TS]

  unlike the edges of my radar for like [TS]

  two or three gears now and so when it [TS]

  first started the the workshop [TS]

  performances and the first run at the [TS]

  public theater before Broadway back when [TS]

  they didn't they weren't I mean they [TS]

  were hoping to go to Broadway but they [TS]

  you know there was no concrete plan at [TS]

  that point and even at that point the [TS]

  the people I knew who worked there the [TS]

  people who went to see it said oh my god [TS]

  this is the next thing and you know and [TS]

  and by the time I had a chance to go [TS]

  there was no way in hell I was gonna get [TS]

  a ticket for it [TS]

  even with all these friends because the [TS]

  demand was so great [TS]

  Hamilton gets in the news now pretty [TS]

  much every two weeks or something [TS]

  it's great was on a leash yeah exactly [TS]

  it's been on the all the late night [TS]

  shows lin-manuel Miranda has gotten to [TS]

  show off how ridiculously good he is at [TS]

  freestyle rapping you don't pretty much [TS]

  every show Chris Christopher Jackson was [TS]

  on The Today Show like three days ago [TS]

  just talking about his uh his [TS]

  experiences I don't know there's [TS]

  something it's it's a confluence of [TS]

  factors right it's that the music is I'm [TS]

  amazing blend of so many different [TS]

  styles and types of of musical theater & [TS]

  hip-hop of rap rock you know of all of [TS]

  basically a hundred years of music [TS]

  smushed into this beautiful thing for [TS]

  all the talk about how it's a [TS]

  revolutionary show and I think in many [TS]

  ways it is if it's also very much in the [TS]

  traditional musical theater I mean rap [TS]

  has been on Broadway for decades Stephen [TS]

  Sondheim head wrapping into the woods [TS]

  and I mean Gilbert and Sullivan was the [TS]

  prototype wrap on in musical theater if [TS]

  you think about it yeah i am the very [TS]

  model of a modern major-general is [TS]

  totally rap it's just wrap done very [TS]

  fast and very much you know it's [TS]

  monosyllabic to a tune rather than just [TS]

  monosyllabic freeform like lin-manuel [TS]

  Miranda has had worked with some time [TS]

  and you can tell from him from ham how [TS]

  big a musical theater nerd this guy is [TS]

  what i think is really special about [TS]

  Hamilton aside from the music and the [TS]

  orchestration by the way if you if you [TS]

  want a new way to listen to Hamilton [TS]

  listen with an ear guided towards the [TS]

  orchestrations because the [TS]

  orchestrations are brilliant and a [TS]

  wonderful kala like they're callbacks [TS]

  and callbacks when callbacks and really [TS]

  smart things and banjos and weird weird [TS]

  a little bits on a synthesizer and [TS]

  banjos yes banjos but besides the music [TS]

  which is wonderful [TS]

  besides the fact that lemon wall miranda [TS]

  is a very very talented composer and an [TS]

  actor I the entire cast [TS]

  there's such an energy from the show [TS]

  from the people who are promoting it [TS]

  which are really the on that you know on [TS]

  the line cast members in some ways it [TS]

  feels very high school theater in a [TS]

  strain it's the most high school theater [TS]

  show on Broadway there is a really good [TS]

  take everybody so delighted to be part [TS]

  of it like these these actors are [TS]

  getting paid for it but their happiness [TS]

  that's one of the things that's been [TS]

  fascinating to me about it that right [TS]

  now as we're speaking this weekend [TS]

  there's the new Broadway con it's like [TS]

  they're trying to do a comic con for [TS]

  Broadway and the first thing then [TS]

  everyone is talking about Hamilton and [TS]

  and someone online brought up you know [TS]

  the great thing about Hamilton is the [TS]

  colorblind casting and someone else [TS]

  immediately went it's not colorblind [TS]

  that was intentional [TS]

  yeah right yeah hardwood part of the [TS]

  beauty of the ham for him shows is that [TS]

  it is showing that it's not just a [TS]

  gimmick these cast members love musical [TS]

  theater and and they they are deeply [TS]

  talent that they do more than just [TS]

  what's in hand [TS]

  let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

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  spending a little bit less than a third [TS]

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  you think I need to get some more sleep [TS]

  but I've been staying up late I had [TS]

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  because Casper is unlike most other [TS]

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  Casper calm / smell and using code smell [TS]

  terms and conditions apply thank you so [TS]

  much to Casper for sponsoring the [TS]

  incomparable well there are a couple of [TS]

  other reasons that I think that this is [TS]

  that this is struck such a court in [TS]

  addition to what y'all have said up [TS]

  lin-manuel Miranda makes a big deal [TS]

  about how the whole point of the casting [TS]

  and the music choices and things like [TS]

  that is to just utterly remove the [TS]

  distance between us in 2016 [TS]

  and the time of Hamilton 1776 and all [TS]

  that stuff [TS]

  it's using its it's doing an incredible [TS]

  job of translating history into [TS]

  something that we can just this really [TS]

  enjoy there's some it's not quite call [TS]

  and response but there's a level of [TS]

  audience participation [TS]

  I understand in the theater during this [TS]

  show they had to add extra bars the to [TS]

  the to the song on what to win or your [TS]

  world turned upside down when lafayette [TS]

  and Hamilton say immigrants we get the [TS]

  job done and give each other a high-five [TS]

  add more bars because the audience is [TS]

  too busy laughing nobody will hear the [TS]

  next the next bit so i think that that [TS]

  accessibility is really important to why [TS]

  this thing's taken off and also you know [TS]

  talk about viral use of social media [TS]

  everything from lin-manuel Miranda at [TS]

  the White House on youtube to his [TS]

  constant tweets and the and the ham for [TS]

  him phenomenon all this other stuff they [TS]

  are doing everything right to just sort [TS]

  of i rly get into your head to the point [TS]

  that i worry about a backlash someday [TS]

  that it just gets so big that people get [TS]

  just sick and tired of it and maybe it [TS]

  doesn't have a long shelf life is it [TS]

  might because of just saturation well it [TS]

  is it is the most pre-sold show in [TS]

  Broadway so it's going to run for a [TS]

  while at least it's sold out through [TS]

  october like to state the obvious if you [TS]

  look at the guys who were actually you [TS]

  know the actual Washington the actual [TS]

  Madison the actual Jefferson the actual [TS]

  hamilton from where we are now in 2016 [TS]

  they all look pretty much identical [TS]

  they're all white guys and powdered wigs [TS]

  and buckling shoes and you can tell it [TS]

  between them and the guys in England the [TS]

  hated upper-class who's keeping them [TS]

  down so casting people that look and [TS]

  talk more like America does i think is a [TS]

  really good way of letting you identify [TS]

  with the scrappy underdog because if you [TS]

  saw the actual Hamilton saying I'm young [TS]

  scrappy and hung [TS]

  re you go no one in a powdered wig is [TS]

  scrappy yeah well and it also breaks you [TS]

  out of that assumption of you know oh [TS]

  well as Thomas Jefferson or you know [TS]

  like you look at 1776 everybody looks [TS]

  very stereotypically like the picture [TS]

  books and you know and the music is very [TS]

  formal it was kind of dated even when it [TS]

  was new [TS]

  you know and william davis has a British [TS]

  accent still and and this you know it's [TS]

  its vibrant its alive it jolts you out [TS]

  of that sort of um nothing against Ken [TS]

  Burns but it would that sort of Ken [TS]

  Burns look at history right where it's [TS]

  not still photographs and it's not the [TS]

  preconceived notions and now you [TS]

  actually listen to Thomas Jefferson this [TS]

  was not a thomas jefferson i knew now [TS]

  listen to it it's not that I've avoided [TS]

  reading history but you know you never [TS]

  think of Thomas Jefferson as being an [TS]

  unsympathetic character or being wrong [TS]

  sometimes right easy spencey animal [TS]

  jefferson and more of the geography of [TS]

  the American Revolution and so right [TS]

  everybody's great and they'll get along [TS]

  and it's all I mean that the line about [TS]

  the it's very nice in the in the rap [TS]

  battle was a real nice declaration the [TS]

  president running or would you like to [TS]

  join us a stinging nettle to reply but [TS]

  the heavens you're doing monticello it [TS]

  yet there's so much [TS]

  um embedded in that because it is [TS]

  talking not only about Sally Hemings but [TS]

  it's talking about his love of of [TS]

  marijuana which is a fact about Thomas [TS]

  Jefferson he smoked him all the time so [TS]

  some really nice bits that the thrown [TS]

  into the two humanizing yeah you've also [TS]

  got these characters are pitted against [TS]

  each other you need to see the [TS]

  differences it's important to see the [TS]

  differences Hamilton story is kind of [TS]

  his differences with everybody around [TS]

  him [TS]

  yeah i like the way lin-manuel Miranda [TS]

  although his is really making history [TS]

  come alive he's also not afraid to just [TS]

  shamelessly cut corners it will improve [TS]

  the narrative because um yeah his most [TS]

  important goal is to tell the story that [TS]

  works so for instance you have Hamilton [TS]

  blasting Jefferson for being [TS]

  a slaver and then turning to his best [TS]

  friend George Washington yeah yeah [TS]

  yep of you will be familiar to me the [TS]

  you know the order in which the sisters [TS]

  met Hamilton it was not at all real [TS]

  how about my father has no son and [TS]

  sisters had no sons is not accurate and [TS]

  the fact is that they are at the moment [TS]

  in the play when Hamilton you know this [TS]

  is one of the other notable things about [TS]

  Hamilton is that he was the first kind [TS]

  of american politician to be bitten by a [TS]

  sex scandal and that's detailed in this [TS]

  in this play but he the way it works in [TS]

  the narrative is at that point his wife [TS]

  basically walked away from him and it's [TS]

  a very modern take on that relationship [TS]

  but in fact during that whole period [TS]

  where they are seen as being basically [TS]

  it's implied that their part in the [TS]

  musical they were still having kids so [TS]

  you know that's not particularly [TS]

  accurate either but it's all in service [TS]

  of the of the big story here and and [TS]

  criticism of of missing some of the [TS]

  details sort of mrs. the big picture [TS]

  one of the nice things about it too is [TS]

  and we sort of touched on it the last [TS]

  time we talked about it is the idea that [TS]

  you know this is all a flashback that [TS]

  bird starts out [TS]

  introducing us to and so I went back and [TS]

  listened to it with that in mind and and [TS]

  so it is there is a concentration not [TS]

  just on who lives who dies who tells [TS]

  your story but specifically on [TS]

  unreliable narrators getting details [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  Eliza taking herself out of the [TS]

  narrative from hibernating all her [TS]

  letters which they be no that's totally [TS]

  made-up we don't know what she did we [TS]

  don't know why those letters don't [TS]

  survive but that is a gorgeous moment in [TS]

  the show and then i have seen the [TS]

  staging for that and it is amazing so so [TS]

  it kind of it makes it okay to have cut [TS]

  corners it sort of gives itself a [TS]

  license to do that it's the intelligence [TS]

  officers I energy what i know and i know [TS]

  but but it just sort of baked in it's [TS]

  not it's not just oh they did it let's [TS]

  just say some of the people i put it [TS]

  this way some of the people who [TS]

  criticize the fact that characters who [TS]

  aren't white or playing white characters [TS]

  also criticized the musical because [TS]

  it's not entirely accurate because [TS]

  they're looking for things to complain [TS]

  about in this in this story because you [TS]

  know the fact that this is a political [TS]

  this this story is political it is [TS]

  political in many ways not just about [TS]

  the politics of the past but the [TS]

  politics of the present some people [TS]

  don't really like that there are a lot [TS]

  of people have made a lot of money and [TS]

  careers out of talking about the [TS]

  intentions of the founding fathers and [TS]

  Miranda like cherno at wants to get [TS]

  people to know a founding father who had [TS]

  some different ideas and that there's [TS]

  complexity there and you can't just talk [TS]

  about founders intent like certain [TS]

  members of our Supreme Court do and and [TS]

  it can be simplified quite a bit from [TS]

  the reality of it so that that's all [TS]

  part of the argument that's going on [TS]

  here i think that lovely line that an [TS]

  ensemble member tosses off when aaron [TS]

  burr is campaigning for president and [TS]

  says I i could I feel like I could have [TS]

  a beer with me [TS]

  yeah what I appreciate is that it seems [TS]

  like miranda is first priority is [TS]

  putting out a really entertaining show [TS]

  with accurate history in it and I think [TS]

  that's the correct order [TS]

  yeah my great and it's interesting [TS]

  enough i mean i was not dying to read or [TS]

  unsure knows book and and I picked it up [TS]

  in the bookstore and with this is a very [TS]

  heavy book it is it's got tiny prints so [TS]

  many pages and i can say from experience [TS]

  more than once [TS]

  it hurts when it falls on your nose when [TS]

  you fall asleep reading is not a [TS]

  reflection on the book it's really good [TS]

  but it's heavy and and yet it was [TS]

  interesting enough that i wanted to know [TS]

  the rest of the details and I wanted to [TS]

  know what was that excited him about it [TS]

  so much I mean he says by the end of the [TS]

  second chapter he was already figuring [TS]

  out how to make it a musical you know [TS]

  why [TS]

  how did how did that happen so that's [TS]

  why I picked it up and it is a good book [TS]

  yeah it is it's a lots of interesting [TS]

  details and the best part of it is [TS]

  you're not just hearing a story about [TS]

  history when you read that book but it's [TS]

  also a story about you get the sense [TS]

  that it's a story that hasn't been told [TS]

  before that that cherno is in some ways [TS]

  a character in that book because at [TS]

  several points he points out that [TS]

  there's information that is essentially [TS]

  not been collected and collated and made [TS]

  part of the overall narrative [TS]

  until him essentially which is really [TS]

  interesting yeah [TS]

  Hamilton's initial thoughts were all [TS]

  there was some sort of like the his [TS]

  contemporaries who wanted to throw him [TS]

  down even after he died and then there [TS]

  were his family members who wanted to [TS]

  build this other narrative about it and [TS]

  then they were all the these documents [TS]

  including things from the Caribbean that [TS]

  nobody even nobody even found this for [TS]

  ya and ensure no kind of put it together [TS]

  and says look this guy's way more [TS]

  interesting than anyone is giving him [TS]

  credit for [TS]

  well no one I think honestly no one no [TS]

  one ever looked I mean you get this this [TS]

  line in the opening song [TS]

  his his enemies destroyed his rep [TS]

  America forgot him and it's true and we [TS]

  think Alexander Hamilton we think money [TS]

  and dollars brown and father well [TS]

  exactly what I don't think money we [TS]

  think you on because it's the same thing [TS]

  you know I saw the big short recently [TS]

  which was a just a fantastic fantastic [TS]

  book and a fantastic movie but they [TS]

  basically say flat out and that feels [TS]

  like yeah this stuff sounds really [TS]

  boring [TS]

  are you ready to go to sleep yet ok no [TS]

  here's a model in a bubble bath to [TS]

  distract you [TS]

  it's the same thing it's like Alexander [TS]

  Hamilton he deals with money he set up [TS]

  you know banks and financial systems [TS]

  beyond okay why is that interesting [TS]

  let's let's talk about atoms because you [TS]

  know Adams would really interest and [TS]

  adams was at least a president which we [TS]

  have here if you weren't a president and [TS]

  you're not Ben Franklin who's the most [TS]

  fascinating guy in the world [TS]

  we don't care take that Jon Jay when I [TS]

  was in school you know basically you got [TS]

  he was the first secretary of the [TS]

  Treasury he got shot us in a duel with [TS]

  aaron burr he's on the ten-dollar bill [TS]

  next and I mean the way the way history [TS]

  was doled out to us and in high school [TS]

  was pretty much you know okay the Civil [TS]

  War you memorize the general for each [TS]

  battle that's it right there was no [TS]

  context there was no interest was just [TS]

  like you know memorize this stuff and [TS]

  take the test and you know I all that [TS]

  stuff I learned on my own because I was [TS]

  interested and now i'm watching my [TS]

  fourteen-year-old going through the same [TS]

  thing he doesn't like musicals he's not [TS]

  interested in reading history books he [TS]

  wants to know more because he fell in [TS]

  love with the musical he wants he wants [TS]

  his teacher to play it like maybe you [TS]

  need to listen to this [TS]

  so let me ask what what do you think all [TS]

  of you are what is the what is the thing [TS]

  that causes Hamilton to have the appeal [TS]

  that it does to all of us we haven't [TS]

  even seen the show to all the people who [TS]

  are trying to see the show that people [TS]

  who see the show and they love it you [TS]

  know what what is what is the source of [TS]

  of the appeal home [TS]

  well three things i'm gonna claim 1 it's [TS]

  super super catchy they say you need to [TS]

  show that you can hum and I hum stuff [TS]

  from this musical always all [TS]

  yeah like if I'm in a line i am waiting [TS]

  for it [TS]

  it's an entire can of your worms it's [TS]

  too can be [TS]

  it's not the entire first act song after [TS]

  song after song about how ya the first [TS]

  act is it is staggering ya next it's a [TS]

  genuinely interesting story about an [TS]

  interesting guy who you'd heard of but [TS]

  didn't know a lot about so as soon as [TS]

  you've heard the album once you feel [TS]

  like you know so much more about the [TS]

  American Revolution which if you're [TS]

  American is a very important event so [TS]

  you can immediately be telling people oh [TS]

  well George Washington's right-hand man [TS]

  was Alexander Hamilton he had to write [TS]

  his leverage for Washington because [TS]

  Washington was so overwhelmed even wrote [TS]

  washington famous farewell speech and [TS]

  then they kind of start edging away from [TS]

  you [TS]

  they do with me I know dates now because [TS]

  they're in Kachin times [TS]

  yeah I only had two I was bluffing [TS]

  alright time for a sponsor here on the [TS]

  accountable you know I've got a lot of [TS]

  feedback about the sponsor from our [TS]

  previous episode it is unusual a little [TS]

  bit for us it is a sponsor related to [TS]

  panties and people are like really [TS]

  panties [TS]

  well you know did you not hear the ads [TS]

  for underpants and for socks there maybe [TS]

  who knows what other garments might be [TS]

  coming next but this in particular it's [TS]

  Valentine's season and this is a service [TS]

  it is designed for people with women who [TS]

  are your partners and you want to get [TS]

  them something nice and this is a [TS]

  subscription service it's called [TS]

  enclosed and it is similar to those [TS]

  subscription services that bring you [TS]

  cool gadget or game or flowers or beer [TS]

  every month but instead [TS]

  yes this is panties for that special [TS]

  woman in your life [TS]

  they're not the usual kind they're very [TS]

  nice their high-quality the idea here is [TS]

  that she will love what she gets it [TS]

  comes in a beautiful box there's a whole [TS]

  kind of nice experience that goes along [TS]

  with it some flower petals it's very [TS]

  romantic [TS]

  you can get 13 6 or 12 months [TS]

  subscriptions to this and you can get it [TS]

  just in time for valentine's day now [TS]

  enclosed product is not cheap but when [TS]

  we're talking about that special woman [TS]

  in your life you wouldn't want cheap [TS]

  would you know I didn't think you would [TS]

  you'll thank me again go to inclose [TS]

  lingerie calm / smell use code snail [TS]

  during checkout you'll get twenty-five [TS]

  dollars off any multi-month order [TS]

  so encl OS e DLI nger I e.com that was a [TS]

  little bit like Hamilton / smell with [TS]

  the code smell to get twenty-five [TS]

  dollars off any multi-month order thank [TS]

  you to enclosed for sponsoring the [TS]

  incomparable ran what's your what's the [TS]

  source for you of why this works so well [TS]

  I will go off what Monty was saying for [TS]

  story because i really do think that [TS]

  what is what caught me what caught my [TS]

  boyfriend my parents who hate rap on [TS]

  pretty much every thank you everybody i [TS]

  know who is listen to the show is like [TS]

  this is something special even people [TS]

  who don't like musical theater don't [TS]

  like rap don't like anything and I i do [TS]

  think it's the don't like America don't [TS]

  like to know those don't don't like [TS]

  nothing there there anti-everything no [TS]

  I'm it's this it's the the universal [TS]

  connection there's something in this [TS]

  story pretty much for everybody and the [TS]

  songs you know the the album is very [TS]

  well constructed that it does tell a [TS]

  complete narrative which so few musical [TS]

  scores you can really claim for you know [TS]

  there's always like big leaps that you [TS]

  have to make being like does that make [TS]

  sense but this is a show this is a show [TS]

  in itself but even if you listen to the [TS]

  songs out of context they're still great [TS]

  songs and he still tell a story you know [TS]

  on hurricane is one of those great you [TS]

  know examples of an act to sign that i [TS]

  actually didn't initially like and then [TS]

  the more I listened to it the more i [TS]

  really really identified with oh this is [TS]

  actually you know everybody everybody [TS]

  can identify with that like I have I [TS]

  have this one talent that can get me out [TS]

  of situations and for some people is [TS]

  writing for some people it's something [TS]

  entirely different [TS]

  but I don't know there's something [TS]

  there's something just so special that I [TS]

  feel like every everyone can identify to [TS]

  the core values of the story the idea of [TS]

  someone who just wants to you know wants [TS]

  to make a name for themselves wants to [TS]

  do something important [TS]

  fresh off the boat yeah I literally yeah [TS]

  i mean that that speaks to fresh [TS]

  immigrants and honestly I mean for me [TS]

  listening to it it it reminded me [TS]

  a lot of like oh that's the the energy [TS]

  that i missed that from being like I'm [TS]

  not I'm not 22 anymore you know i'm 19 [TS]

  i'm not like young scrappy and hungry [TS]

  I've kind of settled a little bit and I [TS]

  have sort of a step and a stagnant life [TS]

  but I have a settled a good life but I [TS]

  feel like Hamilton is the kind of show [TS]

  you listen to to get you excited about [TS]

  your life and what you could be doing [TS]

  and other possibilities and living in [TS]

  the greatest city in the world [TS]

  I don't know it just there there are [TS]

  parts of the show that put just the [TS]

  biggest smile on my face and make me [TS]

  remember like there's there's a world [TS]

  full of possibilities just you wait [TS]

  granted most of those possibilities turn [TS]

  horrible in act two [TS]

  but you're always just be the most Mario [TS]

  exact to yeah exactly yeah maybe [TS]

  Hamilton act 1 and not Hamilton back [TS]

  into everything he ever not great [TS]

  I i was thinking of when I was listening [TS]

  to this I was thinking of lawrence of [TS]

  arabia which again historical figure and [TS]

  that that's that's a film with an [TS]

  intermission and act 1 the first the [TS]

  first half of lawrence of arabia so [TS]

  spectacular ends on a high note and act [TS]

  2 while things kind of suck for Lawrence [TS]

  inactive and I am I thought about and I [TS]

  said well that's life right from [TS]

  especially in these biographies of of [TS]

  great people with amazing stories is [TS]

  there's the Act one which is like here's [TS]

  how they became famous and it's been all [TS]

  great and then there's act 2 which is [TS]

  like yeah and then what the the story [TS]

  continues and it it gets complicated and [TS]

  kind of sad after that but that's all [TS]

  that's all part of the arc of the story [TS]

  chip what for you what's the source of [TS]

  of the appeal of Hamilton two parts one [TS]

  is one is that very ark this is not [TS]

  Hamilton's rockstar Hamilton's great [TS]

  let's sing let's sing the praises of [TS]

  Hamilton he's a hero all the way through [TS]

  the end kind of story is he's almost all [TS]

  I apologize for dragging Babylon 5 into [TS]

  this business almost rolando he's almost [TS]

  a Londo malaria character when we talk [TS]

  about one broadway show without someone [TS]

  bragging Babylon 5 into the guy i know i [TS]

  know every time [TS]

  Hamilton is his own worst enemy [TS]

  absolutely me he can't stop himself he [TS]

  can't shut up and he destroys himself [TS]

  the fuel the fuel that makes him great [TS]

  also destroys him that he liked is class [TS]

  Greek tragedy structure exactly yeah [TS]

  it's like and you know birds birds [TS]

  advice to talk less smile more is [TS]

  cynical but it's also not bad advice [TS]

  sometimes yeah it's not bad when it [TS]

  comes to self-preservation and Hamilton [TS]

  has no interest in self-preservation and [TS]

  that's what makes that character so [TS]

  fascinating to watch you know you're up [TS]

  there cheering with him at the Battle of [TS]

  Yorktown and he just looks unstoppable [TS]

  and you're just so full of energy and [TS]

  then you watch him repeatedly screw up [TS]

  it's not just a tragedy of things bad [TS]

  things happening to him but he gives bad [TS]

  advice to his son he goes nuts on John [TS]

  Adams the fatalism I i think is a really [TS]

  good point that in my shot he says I [TS]

  imagine that so what's it feels more [TS]

  like a memory [TS]

  when's it gonna get in my sleep seven [TS]

  feet ahead of me because he had come [TS]

  into a run to let it be [TS]

  is it like a beat without a melody never [TS]

  thought I'd live past 20 where I come [TS]

  from as many ask anybody in the fast and [TS]

  we laugh reach from a blast we have to [TS]

  make this moment last you have like it's [TS]

  a match that from from Hamilton that his [TS]

  life has started out so badly and he's [TS]

  been surrounded by death that he doesn't [TS]

  really expect to live and and when [TS]

  Washington tells him eventually [TS]

  all rights you want to fight got a [TS]

  hunger was just like you when I was [TS]

  younger it full of that disease and die [TS]

  like a martyr yes [TS]

  dying is easy young men living is hard [TS]

  this is a moment of change but that mean [TS]

  this is Hamilton's worldview and you see [TS]

  it it he's not he's not living to [TS]

  survive rewrite he's living to go out in [TS]

  a in a burst of glory [TS]

  yeah he wants he thinks up until that [TS]

  moment he thinks the way to make his [TS]

  legacy is to get there do something go [TS]

  out in a blaze of glory and it that [TS]

  morning [TS]

  get it get put in the fight so he can [TS]

  die a hero instead of being back at the [TS]

  bank general Mercer got a street name [TS]

  for ah mr. secretary mr. Byrd did you [TS]

  hear the news about good old general [TS]

  Mercer now you know come on street [TS]

  yeah they renamed it after him the [TS]

  Mersenne [TS]

  legacy is secure sure you only had to do [TS]

  is die that's a lot less work we ought [TS]

  to give it a try just that would have [TS]

  been easy wouldn't it [TS]

  the other thing that really makes this [TS]

  musical just hum is sometimes Hamilton's [TS]

  not the most interesting character in [TS]

  the show Aaron Burr oh yeah you know [TS]

  these are two hugely flawed people and [TS]

  they attacked life in completely [TS]

  different ways but aaron burr is you [TS]

  know the things that he wants you [TS]

  understand why he wants them and as he [TS]

  falls further and further behind [TS]

  hamilton and and becomes almost unhinged [TS]

  by the end you feel for him you know [TS]

  that that man is not going to make an [TS]

  orphan of my daughter you know that that [TS]

  lines just sort of like desperately [TS]

  screamed out you watch the intersection [TS]

  between those two characters and that I [TS]

  that may be the most propulsive force in [TS]

  the in the whole thing maybe even beyond [TS]

  the catchy songs think it's well it's [TS]

  humanist right i mean there's there's [TS]

  these these are real people they leap [TS]

  off of the page and out of the song I [TS]

  really great interview with the [TS]

  descendants of Hamilton and burr hole [TS]

  yes a descendant of hamilton and [TS]

  ascended tuber are both friends and in a [TS]

  boating club in New York which i think [TS]

  is fascinating it by itself descended a [TS]

  burr said she really didn't like Ron [TS]

  charnos book because aaron burr is just [TS]

  a villain in it but she loves Hamilton [TS]

  because Burke comes off as more of a [TS]

  rounded character like he's got [TS]

  motivations in the musical that really [TS]

  are explored in the book I think it's [TS]

  fascinating [TS]

  well in and lemon well Miranda mentions [TS]

  that he had a couple of different books [TS]

  to get first side and one of them i have [TS]

  on a perennial bookmark list to to read [TS]

  eventually this is that the heartbreak [TS]

  of Aaron Burr which goes down that round [TS]

  of the you know [TS]

  wait for it is such a fantastic song on [TS]

  the album because it really does detail [TS]

  like this is this is trying to get [TS]

  inside the head of someone who will [TS]

  later become the villain [TS]

  and like what what he what he cares [TS]

  about and it comes down to death doesn't [TS]

  discriminate in this insane to teach [TS]

  break live with everyone guide coming [TS]

  I'm willing to wait for it [TS]

  that's supposed to be 20 25 year-old [TS]

  bursting that but we also we look down [TS]

  we have the privilege of knowing future [TS]

  history and knowing that Theodosia dice [TS]

  unspeakable young of stomach cancer and [TS]

  knowing that his daughter dies lost at [TS]

  sea [TS]

  well I you could argue that this is all [TS]

  I mean he's an audience proxy so berber [TS]

  in many ways has access to the knowledge [TS]

  of where of where this is all going [TS]

  that's part of the story because he's [TS]

  the damn fool who shot him right from [TS]

  the start so this is he's telling that [TS]

  story and so and so that makes it even [TS]

  more at the whole conceit of having [TS]

  aaron berger tell the story of Alexander [TS]

  Hamilton is a great move and it leads to [TS]

  a lot of interesting shading but it's [TS]

  funny that you mention wait for it [TS]

  because i would actually argue that's [TS]

  one of those songs that if you take it [TS]

  out of the context of the musical that [TS]

  is a legitimately great song that is [TS]

  just a great song and then in the [TS]

  context of who's singing it and why he's [TS]

  singing it and you could even argue in [TS]

  some ways he's singing it [TS]

  I mean describing everyone who has loved [TS]

  him has died that's the Hamilton story [TS]

  to when he comes to America is everybody [TS]

  has died and he there's nobody left but [TS]

  him these two men are both in this [TS]

  position where they know you know [TS]

  they've got nobody until they make their [TS]

  own way [TS]

  bern hamilton have the same story or the [TS]

  same backstory in many ways and yet they [TS]

  interact with the world and they're [TS]

  they're they're they're shaped by those [TS]

  stories in such different ways up [TS]

  lin-manuel Miranda you know graduation [TS]

  speeches you know grin when well Miranda [TS]

  set for life on that circuit uh mom and [TS]

  he did a great one where he told the [TS]

  crop of college graduates you know that [TS]

  wait for it and I'm going to take my [TS]

  shot not going to throw not throwing [TS]

  away my shot art like the the two [TS]

  different ways to deal with life and [TS]

  sometimes you have to do one sometimes [TS]

  you have to do the other and it's [TS]

  fascinating in this musical watching [TS]

  when those strategies work for Hamilton [TS]

  and burr and when they fail utterly [TS]

  absolutely and not to nothing Darrell [TS]

  too much but i would highly recommend [TS]

  if after you've listened to the show if [TS]

  people want to go see there's an [TS]

  alternate version of wait for it [TS]

  that was performed on Broadway does the [TS]

  thing every year where they basically [TS]

  get focus on stage and they did a [TS]

  basically a very close to acoustic [TS]

  version of wait for it based around all [TS]

  of the recent murders that have been [TS]

  going like the the black lives matter [TS]

  movement and some of the other the the [TS]

  recent mass shooting in San Bernardino [TS]

  and it's it's chilling how you can take [TS]

  a song that you know is very much in [TS]

  context in the musical but this is this [TS]

  is why i think that this musical is not [TS]

  just like pop pop culture explosion and [TS]

  will die in six months that it actually [TS]

  has lasting meaning that you can take [TS]

  you know you remove the first verse and [TS]

  you take the rest of the dish the song [TS]

  out of context you put it in a [TS]

  completely different situation reminds [TS]

  me a little bit of rents like will I [TS]

  lose my dignity will someone care was [TS]

  just these sort of haunting haunting [TS]

  phrases that just stick in your head and [TS]

  are useful for so many different [TS]

  situations it's kind of interesting [TS]

  contrast with rent and that rent has a [TS]

  character who's obsessed with writing [TS]

  one song before he dies that he might be [TS]

  remembered a little whereas everyone in [TS]

  Hamilton is doing these huge things that [TS]

  are going to be in history books for [TS]

  ever [TS]

  no it's yeah I it's funny because i [TS]

  don't think that you know I i went [TS]

  actually after listening to Hamilton [TS]

  about a gazillion times I'm like I want [TS]

  to listen to you know things older [TS]

  musical so I went back and listened to [TS]

  blame is which is obviously a huge [TS]

  inspiration for Hamilton in many ways [TS]

  and also really like the French cousin [TS]

  of Hamilton but i also went back in and [TS]

  listened to rent and it was funny in [TS]

  some ways where is like things that I [TS]

  thought were endlessly clever as a you [TS]

  know fourteen-year-old just discovering [TS]

  rent i think are less clever now I love [TS]

  run but let's let's cut rent a break [TS]

  because of this it's essentially [TS]

  unfinished I mean it was recently our [TS]

  second it's brilliant for what it is [TS]

  what it is an unfinished work but what [TS]

  exactly and I don't [TS]

  yeah I know I'm not downplaying don't [TS]

  know i just i want to point out that i [TS]

  mean i think that i think you're right i [TS]

  I think brilliant but yet it has it has [TS]

  the it but the energy is the same i [TS]

  think that's what I was coming back to [TS]

  is like the the energy and the [TS]

  excitement and the love that the care [TS]

  that the cast felts and just that the [TS]

  the the buzz it was something different [TS]

  it was something special there are some [TS]

  clunkers and rent probably would have [TS]

  gotten smooth that probably so yeah but [TS]

  there are a few clunkers in in there are [TS]

  this one too it's not a perfect musical [TS]

  but that's fine [TS]

  perfect mother musical always always [TS]

  enough something more to shoot for [TS]

  I like a couple points what one is I'm [TS]

  talking about that there's this idea in [TS]

  this about these people in this place [TS]

  you talk about you know all over the [TS]

  place things are going to be remembered [TS]

  throughout history [TS]

  Cherno makes the point in his book that [TS]

  he there's a whole interesting section [TS]

  where he says that you may be asking [TS]

  yourself what how how fortunate are we [TS]

  that these people who had these ideals [TS]

  and these approaches were in this place [TS]

  at this time right the greatest city in [TS]

  the world which is totally just sucking [TS]

  up to the people who are we here in New [TS]

  York City but I they the how how could [TS]

  it be well you know it's so it's so [TS]

  lucky and what your noses look at those [TS]

  people are always around [TS]

  it's only they're only useful during a [TS]

  revolution [TS]

  they're always around but during a [TS]

  revolution [TS]

  those are the people who end up [TS]

  gravitating toward these things because [TS]

  they're the right people for that kind [TS]

  of moment other in another time they [TS]

  might be a horribly frustrated person or [TS]

  simply somebody that you never heard of [TS]

  who lived a life where they didn't get [TS]

  to put those ideals into action but [TS]

  they're they're always with us and in [TS]

  those moments when the this sort of [TS]

  thing happens they're the ones who we [TS]

  end up remembering so I thought it was [TS]

  an interesting point that and that of [TS]

  course happened like during the lives of [TS]

  something like Thomas Paine was hugely [TS]

  important and great when we need a [TS]

  revolution is the revolution is over [TS]

  Thomas Paine is a really annoying guy to [TS]

  have stopped listening don't hear much [TS]

  about thomas & Hamilton's youth is [TS]

  actually really important to this story [TS]

  because being late to the party in some [TS]

  ways uh you know his story becomes more [TS]

  about the nation-building about the [TS]

  revolution the revolution is very [TS]

  dramatic and it's part of his coming of [TS]

  age and they're all of that in there [TS]

  but you know Hamilton makes his stamp [TS]

  after the Revolution when they're when [TS]

  they're building the country and another [TS]

  thing that's internos book is that gets [TS]

  glossed over in American history class [TS]

  when your kid is it was a real tenuous [TS]

  thing that there was going to be a [TS]

  federal government with a strong central [TS]

  government after the Revolution it was [TS]

  very very hard for that to be coming to [TS]

  being in hamilton was a big part of that [TS]

  and that that's his story his story is [TS]

  the is the after the Revolution part [TS]

  more really than the end of revolution [TS]

  partying so that that's a that's kind of [TS]

  an interesting spin on it i love stories [TS]

  like that chip a little like Babylon 5 [TS]

  where you know when the war is over the [TS]

  story doesn't get isn't over in fact [TS]

  what you do after the war when you're [TS]

  trying to put things back together can [TS]

  be way more interesting and complicated [TS]

  than fighting the war and Hamilton [TS]

  definitely deals with that Wally while [TS]

  he also is you know his plight his life [TS]

  is in pieces too but he's trying to put [TS]

  the simultaneously his life is in pieces [TS]

  and he's trying to put the country [TS]

  together and unlike Babylon 5 the [TS]

  post-war peace really does hold up [TS]

  yeah well you know that's because they [TS]

  didn't try to they didn't have to finish [TS]

  the war early for fear that the country [TS]

  would be cancelled point I i want to [TS]

  shift gears a little bit i want to talk [TS]

  about the women of Hamilton that's one [TS]

  of the things that's really notable [TS]

  about this [TS]

  this play is that special is that limit [TS]

  while Miranda and I should say also how [TS]

  amazing is that mean he is the star and [TS]

  he is the writer of the whole thing [TS]

  that's pretty amazing it's pretty great [TS]

  but he has chosen to take this narrative [TS]

  that could very easily about the men in [TS]

  power me but it's not and it in and make [TS]

  sure that women's voices are heard [TS]

  throughout but one one of the things [TS]

  that really jumped out at me on like the [TS]

  third or fourth lesson was that there is [TS]

  a thread of helplessness and [TS]

  satisfaction throughout the whole story [TS]

  and the songs you know at first you [TS]

  think well they're all kind of their [TS]

  songs right they're not necessarily all [TS]

  connected but there's there's a [TS]

  recurring theme of that would be enough [TS]

  oh he will never be satisfied i would be [TS]

  satisfied if you survived [TS]

  don't die that's that would be enough [TS]

  right and the men are never quite [TS]

  satisfied and the women are the same [TS]

  ones the women are the ones are like if [TS]

  I talk to Jefferson at all you know [TS]

  we'll we'll see about getting women into [TS]

  the sequel in in the declaration of [TS]

  independence and common sense and all [TS]

  those things and and the women are [TS]

  eminently sensible in this show and and [TS]

  the men are idiots [TS]

  it also extends to the ensemble the US [TS]

  soldiers the cabinet members men and [TS]

  women it's you know yet that doesn't [TS]

  come across in the cast album but but [TS]

  it's an ensemble yeah you can tell you [TS]

  can tell from the from the choral [TS]

  arrangements if you have an ear for [TS]

  those things but yeah I mean in if you [TS]

  look at any of the any of the shots and [TS]

  I of the cast [TS]

  it's incredible actually just how many [TS]

  of the ensemble members are ladies and [TS]

  if you listen to the background voices [TS]

  on the on the cast album for all of sort [TS]

  of the little bit parts you know [TS]

  oh I wish i'm so glad we're here with [TS]

  him and oh no you didn't during the rap [TS]

  battles it's a lot of the call-outs are [TS]

  all the the ladies all sonically usually [TS]

  have to find a way to shove women in [TS]

  somehow [TS]

  uh-huh that's why Gilbert and Sullivan [TS]

  Iraq were constantly saying and here he [TS]

  is with his eight daughters [TS]

  yeah exactly all right we need coral [TS]

  harmonies but no i mean what i found was [TS]

  really fascinating about the staging of [TS]

  this and just the use of the coral [TS]

  members you know quite the chorus often [TS]

  plays a lot of different roles like [TS]

  they're expected to kind of quick change [TS]

  and and sort of be scenery and be [TS]

  ensemble members wherever the ensemble [TS]

  is necessary but Hamilton seems to take [TS]

  it a step further and also a step back [TS]

  in the sort of the tradition of your [TS]

  Greek chorus where you know the chorus [TS]

  and most of the pictures are very very [TS]

  simply dressed in white beauty like [TS]

  beautiful white inspired colonial [TS]

  outfits but not quite [TS]

  colonial outfits and they're all white [TS]

  and off-white and then they get these [TS]

  various things but you combine this with [TS]

  just an ever presence of like these are [TS]

  almost the ghosts walking through [TS]

  Hamilton versus life and you have this [TS]

  proscenium stage that has an upper an [TS]

  upper balcony where characters are [TS]

  constantly standing on and looking down [TS]

  at the action and judging the characters [TS]

  for what's going on and what what's [TS]

  about to happen there was a great [TS]

  interview vulture did this huge this [TS]

  whole series about Hamilton Alexander [TS]

  Hamilton's birthday so they did a [TS]

  week-long about the show Hamilton and [TS]

  they did am an interview with a couple [TS]

  of the cast members of the the auxiliary [TS]

  cast members and including Renee lows at [TS]

  least goals i butchered her name [TS]

  um who plays Angelica Skyler on and DVD [TS]

  digs who plays jefferson and they [TS]

  mentioned her like yeah there's you know [TS]

  there's one of the songs and I'm you [TS]

  know I look up because i have a free [TS]

  moment and i see that Chris Jackson who [TS]

  plays George Washington is just standing [TS]

  up in the winter you know standing up on [TS]

  this upper balcony just judging me just [TS]

  looking at me one and its influence [TS]

  every single performance i've done since [TS]

  then because I just feel his eyes on the [TS]

  back of my neck while I'm singing and I [TS]

  don't know I there's there's something [TS]

  omnipresent about it that I really loved [TS]

  and well it can makes no bones about it [TS]

  being a story told to you [TS]

  oh yeah that whole framework of the [TS]

  staging it's not it's you know it's not [TS]

  obvious or blatant about it's not like a [TS]

  look at what we're doing but exactly [TS]

  it's like you [TS]

  it's just they're leveling call he adds [TS]

  i love when feeder can do that history [TS]

  has its eyes on you [TS]

  yeah who tells your story that it's [TS]

  difficult to tell stories uh from these [TS]

  periods involving women when all the [TS]

  action is happening with the men in [TS]

  terms of what we know as the history and [TS]

  so with with angelica especially I think [TS]

  was satisfied you get some very [TS]

  interesting moments we have we have put [TS]

  Alexander Hamilton up on a pedestal this [TS]

  is his show we have heard 11 songs you [TS]

  know that are all about Hamilton in one [TS]

  way or another [TS]

  and when we get to Angelica song her [TS]

  reaction to Hamilton is finally there's [TS]

  somebody who can match me which is we [TS]

  will undermine left right yeah it's not [TS]

  he's not he's he's just it's a relief [TS]

  that he's at her level and it's a real [TS]

  relief it's kind of amazing this is what [TS]

  it feels like to match with one of your [TS]

  level with the feeling of freedom of the [TS]

  light you see it right conversation with [TS]

  two minutes maybe three minutes [TS]

  everything we can in total agreement is [TS]

  the dream dance in the monster with a [TS]

  bit of a blur but i'm giving a chance [TS]

  family you can see the [TS]

  and envisioning you understand [TS]

  anyways he's flying by the seat of his [TS]

  pants and so will and that song is that [TS]

  may be my favorite song the whole thing [TS]

  although I you know every song in the [TS]

  first actor Michael that's my favorite [TS]

  no no this wasn't her but she's got the [TS]

  she's got the line and that that is I [TS]

  think very important because this is [TS]

  this is the show saying look this is [TS]

  what this is our lot in life is we have [TS]

  to work with stuff like this and it's [TS]

  not that she is any less capable than [TS]

  hamilton and in real life Angelica [TS]

  scholar with a formidable person reading [TS]

  common sense but Thomas Paine yeah when [TS]

  I meet Thomas Jefferson and I did and [TS]

  I'm have had an affair with me boo knows [TS]

  yeah she's apparently real pals with [TS]

  Jefferson oh yeah but when it's because [TS]

  they're both overseas she moves i'm [TS]

  heading off to London I have found a [TS]

  wealthy husband who always pays no [TS]

  actually I wanted to say something about [TS]

  the one-two punch of helpless and [TS]

  satisfied and I think our is very very [TS]

  important to the core of this musical [TS]

  it's my boy also modern in a narrative [TS]

  way where we see the courtship play out [TS]

  and helpless and then in satisfied [TS]

  immediately we rewind and see the entire [TS]

  courtship again and planning played out [TS]

  through the other sisters perspective [TS]

  it's so it's brilliant brilliant young [TS]

  and some 21 fun fun side note i'm went [TS]

  once I saw Hamilton i went back and [TS]

  watched or listened to all of Miranda's [TS]

  other stuff and there's a small rewind [TS]

  bit and bring it on the musical which he [TS]

  worked on together and as soon as I [TS]

  heard that that the whole musical is [TS]

  like oh my god I see the seeds of all of [TS]

  these things [TS]

  yeah but going back to to satisfied into [TS]

  helpless i think it is really [TS]

  fascinating to me that we we don't see [TS]

  it through Peggy's I before we don't get [TS]

  a Peggy Peggy vision but i love that i [TS]

  don't have a contrast between we've got [TS]

  Eliza just being completely struck head [TS]

  over heels with this with this [TS]

  magnificent thinker who just always says [TS]

  the right thing and has the right words [TS]

  and then you've got Angelica who is like [TS]

  yeah you're pretty smooth I appreciate [TS]

  that you can be on my level and both of [TS]

  these women [TS]

  the second act get called better they [TS]

  get called back to the end of the first [TS]

  act to do you know Eliza basically being [TS]

  like you know all I wanna be is around [TS]

  you know I want to be around your [TS]

  brilliance i wanna you know I know who I [TS]

  married I know what I signed up for and [TS]

  I'm okay with this [TS]

  Angelica's like well you know I know [TS]

  what I had to sign up for and i'm just [TS]

  going to live you know i'm going to live [TS]

  vicariously through my letters to you [TS]

  and I'm gonna still time [TS]

  perhaps dr. Thomas Jefferson and and [TS]

  enact to each of these ladies get say [TS]

  you know Eliza gets her own song but [TS]

  I'll but I evangelica gets a little bit [TS]

  where they get to read like go back to [TS]

  their original their first act selves [TS]

  and just basically be like no you know [TS]

  what I'm revising my I'm revising my [TS]

  place in the narrative where it's like [TS]

  Angelica you know Angelica of course is [TS]

  singing the melody from satisfied when [TS]

  she goes into him after he's you know [TS]

  ruined everything and you publish the [TS]

  Reynolds pamphlets happy [TS]

  what we had died i'm standing at a time [TS]

  you gonna be my god [TS]

  she just walks off she's like BAM she's [TS]

  not just saying i love Eliza more than I [TS]

  love myself she's telling it Alexander [TS]

  you know it's fun being pen pals with [TS]

  you but I'm here for allies it not you [TS]

  yeah actually yeah my the most important [TS]

  thing to me in my life is my family and [TS]

  you have basically just ruined my family [TS]

  its mind over yourself you in so yeah [TS]

  exactly and then Eliza has this [TS]

  blockbuster moment and burn which used [TS]

  to be one of my least favorite songs and [TS]

  is now very much grown on me but burns [TS]

  is basically the entire like burn for [TS]

  one thing it's the inverse chord [TS]

  structure of helpless which is beautiful [TS]

  and for another she's basically tearing [TS]

  down everything that she said and how [TS]

  helpless when she's like I see myself as [TS]

  this naive kid you know I saved every [TS]

  letter you wrote me and and I love all [TS]

  of these things and and then I and then [TS]

  she gets to see she has to see it from [TS]

  an outsider's perspective she wrote to [TS]

  you you told the whole world how you [TS]

  brought this girl into our bed and [TS]

  clearing your name have ruined on ma [TS]

  angelica what she read what you've done [TS]

  everything it comes to close to the side [TS]

  it's very much the the concept of oh [TS]

  well this one was actually very [TS]

  uneducated this woman that he had an [TS]

  affair with and this woman was complete [TS]

  complete you know buffoon not be food in [TS]

  some ways but very under the education [TS]

  level of any of the Skyler sisters [TS]

  level of any of the Skyler sisters [TS]

  and.and she manages to paint this in [TS]

  such a way that like it's such a biting [TS]

  way of I was this stupid I was this I [TS]

  was this lovesick girl I was the person [TS]

  who did this and I'm taking i'm taking [TS]

  my narrative back she said she may say [TS]

  i'm removing myself from the narrative [TS]

  from your narrative but in in essence [TS]

  she's also saying like I'm taking my [TS]

  narrative back and I'm not going to be [TS]

  you know i'm not going to be the help [TS]

  sick love you know the lovesick girl who [TS]

  can't who can't be on her own [TS]

  you can't do anything who requires a man [TS]

  to survive to quit the last five years [TS]

  because it seems the matically [TS]

  appropriate it i don't know it's there [TS]

  there arc over the over the course of [TS]

  the musical is fascinating to me when [TS]

  Angelica and satisfied and she's the [TS]

  first one who really points out the [TS]

  darkness within Hamilton that's going to [TS]

  come out of item and that's that's [TS]

  something i wanted to point out that [TS]

  she's just you know she reads him [TS]

  instantly and she's kicking herself for [TS]

  it but as it turns out she read him [TS]

  exactly right and when it comes home to [TS]

  roost it at in the second act with god I [TS]

  hope you're satisfied the one of course [TS]

  that the way the story ends this is this [TS]

  is and this is tied to history right [TS]

  this is Eliza ends up telling his story [TS]

  this is the moment that everybody so I [TS]

  was driving to the airport to pick up my [TS]

  mom and it was raining and it took me [TS]

  way too long to get there [TS]

  the traffic was really slow and I made [TS]

  the mistake of starting sort of the end [TS]

  of Act one of hamilton and so by the [TS]

  time i'm sitting on the 880 freeway and [TS]

  it's pouring down rain i mentioned ahead [TS]

  five miles an hour and it's getting to [TS]

  the end of hamilton and I am just [TS]

  sobbing in the car at that last at the [TS]

  last song but also knowing the history [TS]

  of it now that makes it even more [TS]

  heartbreaking because this is you know [TS]

  Eliza is one of the reasons that we know [TS]

  what we do she's the one who set their [TS]

  son as well on the case of making sure [TS]

  that people remember to Alexander [TS]

  Hamilton was and saving his papers and [TS]

  she creates the orphanage which of [TS]

  course Hamilton was an orphan [TS]

  essentially uh you know she raises funds [TS]

  for the Washington Monument [TS]

  these are all these are all historical [TS]

  fact but the beauty of it is even though [TS]

  we start with burr you know it is Eliza [TS]

  hotels Alexander Hamilton story so so in [TS]

  the end i mean this this is the thing [TS]

  where we get we have the narrative and [TS]

  she takes herself out and put yourself [TS]

  back in all that happens so so it's just [TS]

  she's the one who is who [TS]

  who is finishing the story at the end [TS]

  and so she is vitally important to this [TS]

  all happening and historically she was [TS]

  vitally important to Hamilton story [TS]

  being told so in in the end you know she [TS]

  without the women of this story the [TS]

  story doesn't it can't be told she [TS]

  rescues the narrative to your documents [TS]

  she basically you know we start with / [TS]

  when we the world was wide enough could [TS]

  be an ending song now I'm the two [TS]

  I was too young and lie [TS]

  to see [TS]

  No [TS]

  I should have known world was wide [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  the world was wide enough for both [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  and then just sprinkle sadness and then [TS]

  but that's not that but exactly right [TS]

  but she picks up the hell is she [TS]

  outlived both of them [TS]

  no one one of the things that I think is [TS]

  really pulling people into this too is [TS]

  we can see ourselves and in a lot of [TS]

  these characters right there's this [TS]

  thread of youthful exuberance and [TS]

  confidence and intelligence and Hamilton [TS]

  there's this thread of fear and envy and [TS]

  and worry tuber you know he's afraid to [TS]

  make a choice he's afraid to do it but [TS]

  he really wants to be in the room where [TS]

  it happens is is and you by that point [TS]

  and and yet it's the the groundedness [TS]

  the the focus of Eliza by the end that's [TS]

  what carries through at the end and we [TS]

  kind of want to be that to their you [TS]

  know i mean i can i can look back at my [TS]

  own life and see moments where I was any [TS]

  one of the three of them and hopefully [TS]

  hopefully I more like Eliza than the [TS]

  others but you know I'm human [TS]

  but i but i love the balance between [TS]

  those characters because because it [TS]

  would say that's exactly right it's not [TS]

  a traditional hero villain kind of story [TS]

  and it's it's more interesting that way [TS]

  we should talk about some of the other [TS]

  other I mean how I don't let your [TS]

  characters [TS]

  oh my god there's so many characters [TS]

  that are you doing laughter that are [TS]

  major part that are major parts of [TS]

  history even but in hamilton the musical [TS]

  they are smaller parts get Washington [TS]

  well so I was gonna start with George [TS]

  Washington interesting of you if you [TS]

  want to mention some of the other [TS]

  characters to just say Washington [TS]

  Washington you know he gets a lot of [TS]

  press if you're an American you grow up [TS]

  you know about the father of our country [TS]

  and and and all these things and use the [TS]

  general and the revolutionary war that [TS]

  shot down a cherry tree that he didn't [TS]

  actually do which he didn't do the best [TS]

  I Washington we get here [TS]

  ar-ar-ar-ar really great and and boiled [TS]

  down i think some interesting historical [TS]

  facts about Washington and how he [TS]

  relates to Hamilton both as a general [TS]

  and as the as the president that I [TS]

  really appreciate I i really enjoy [TS]

  I really enjoy Washington of course when [TS]

  when he visits with Hamilton and we have [TS]

  a whole right-hand man thing it is sort [TS]

  of spectacular we get you know quoting [TS]

  actual lines of of Washington than by [TS]

  the chance to defend America that's [TS]

  exactly it [TS]

  you get that sense of disc desperation [TS]

  which comes back and stay alive as well [TS]

  that again [TS]

  history we think of history as a favor [TS]

  to complete when you get taught in [TS]

  school and then seeing it here you [TS]

  realize how how it could have gone any [TS]

  number of bad ways and that these people [TS]

  were kind of remarkable to have done [TS]

  what they did and and the portrayal of [TS]

  washington in hamilton actually i really [TS]

  i really love it yet Christopher Jackson [TS]

  does a great job it is a it is a really [TS]

  cool kind of performance to get the [TS]

  sense of this guy being so formidable [TS]

  and so respected by the other characters [TS]

  because he's I mean who else could it be [TS]

  who else could be the president who else [TS]

  could give legitimate legitimacy to this [TS]

  federal government there's only one [TS]

  person could have possibly been and that [TS]

  was Washington we look back at this in [TS]

  retrospect now and and all these years [TS]

  we've known this we've known this is how [TS]

  it all filters out but what if Luke had [TS]

  missed the shot in the Death Star trench [TS]

  right yeah it's the same kind of thing [TS]

  it's just taken is given now but in the [TS]

  moment maybe it doesn't work maybe it [TS]

  fails we got a star wars references to [TS]

  work yeah we're doing are we doing a [TS]

  check by Frank that tricky [TS]

  anyway you want to talk about you know [TS]

  we got we got duh obviously Jefferson we [TS]

  got a Lorentz and lafayette and Hercules [TS]

  Mulligan mad and Samuel seabury and King [TS]

  George George when he says that he got [TS]

  through like the first two chapters and [TS]

  suddenly wanted to write the book on the [TS]

  1st earth would the show on the first [TS]

  page of chapter 3 in the book is the [TS]

  name Hercules mulligan and i have to [TS]

  think he had to have read that far just [TS]

  to go i wanna rhyme that name i'll bet [TS]

  that I name my name is really as well [TS]

  again I mean come on [TS]

  sounds like a rapper named yeah I i will [TS]

  sit I will say that [TS]

  daveed digs in the two great roles of [TS]

  lafayette Jefferson is incredible [TS]

  yeah if that man does not get the [TS]

  supporting Tony I will cry [TS]

  yeah I hope he finds something else to [TS]

  do on Broadway cuz i don't want him to [TS]

  go back to just being a rapper [TS]

  I don't know what else they can do with [TS]

  him I he'd be a great uh Harold Hill & [TS]

  Music Man but that's kind of obvious i [TS]

  wanted to stick around [TS]

  yeah he's um I mean again reading [TS]

  interviews with him is very funny [TS]

  because of course he's relatively new to [TS]

  the Broadway thing and it was lemon well [TS]

  Miranda being like oh my god I know the [TS]

  perfect person from this and just going [TS]

  for it and it was true it's true it's [TS]

  absolutely true [TS]

  the dual casting is something to talk [TS]

  about to the fact that you know I'm devi [TS]

  digs and i can't pronounce his name [TS]

  properly so i'm not going to oak who [TS]

  plays Hercules Mulligan and James [TS]

  Madison and and Anthony Ramos who plays [TS]

  phillip hamilton and john lawrence I [TS]

  don't want to swap their because really [TS]

  it's yeah but uh it's it is crazy to me [TS]

  the fact that they have such wildly [TS]

  different parts you know you think about [TS]

  what defeat has to play in the first [TS]

  half of the show vs. the second half of [TS]

  the show the styles of like lafayette [TS]

  and Jefferson are two very different [TS]

  people they may have both spent a decent [TS]

  amount of time in France come but they [TS]

  merit not at all no no and it's such a [TS]

  cool challenge for the actors to play [TS]

  and they have different singing styles [TS]

  defeat has to wrap in French essentially [TS]

  like wrapping a French accent with a [TS]

  little bit of French toston i'm anthony [TS]

  around us has to die [TS]

  well suppose died twice huh i get enough [TS]

  history [TS]

  I don't know John had been a while ago [TS]

  yeah I'm Lawrence doesn't really make it [TS]

  through the revolution spoilers for the [TS]

  American Revolution y-yeah I guess yeah [TS]

  and and ochre a date and help them send [TS]

  that right who plays Hercules Mulligan [TS]

  and James Madison I mean Hercules [TS]

  mulligan is like the again is the best [TS]

  rap name of hot girls elegant and then [TS]

  he goes to play Madison [TS]

  and it's like Mulligan wraps pretty much [TS]

  the entire first step and is just acting [TS]

  it's just kind of like yeah I'm the you [TS]

  know i'm i'm the the big strong arm dude [TS]

  and madison is almost silky and almost [TS]

  afraid in some ways I think he's Charles [TS]

  Jefferson's number two and he and he and [TS]

  Alexander Hamilton used to be buds but [TS]

  you don't see it all happens off-screen [TS]

  yeah when you know one thing that's been [TS]

  really interesting to watch that and [TS]

  this is you know going back to people [TS]

  telling me about this for years they've [TS]

  been workshopping this mean he took six [TS]

  years to really write it [TS]

  they've been workshopping it since 2013 [TS]

  daveed digs and Christopher Jackson [TS]

  who's George Washington are the only [TS]

  other two cast members who have been [TS]

  there right from the start so they've [TS]

  had you know close to three years to get [TS]

  used to this by now and it really shows [TS]

  that speaks to something that's sort of [TS]

  fascinates me about broadway in general [TS]

  where the lafayette and Jefferson part [TS]

  is so tailored to defeat digs that [TS]

  because W can go so fast lin-manuel [TS]

  Miranda was constantly adding things [TS]

  like I can put more syllables are there [TS]

  are going to give him another live in [TS]

  another line but that becomes part of [TS]

  the official role so now because this [TS]

  play is already moving to check that [TS]

  movie Chicago they're opening a Chicago [TS]

  run already [TS]

  it's going to go on tour is going to be [TS]

  done by kids everywhere yes and and for [TS]

  all of those people they're all going to [TS]

  have to be as not as good as to be digs [TS]

  but they're gonna have to try to be as [TS]

  fast as event said well but you know [TS]

  it's one thing to do it for the very [TS]

  first time and get used to it but you [TS]

  know when Robert Preston was the music [TS]

  man right who maybe Danny Kaye could [TS]

  have done but then I've grown up for you [TS]

  know 40-something years doing you got [TS]

  trouble I can do it right [TS]

  I've listened to it enough and so people [TS]

  are gonna be listening to this and [TS]

  practicing it in doing it and it'll just [TS]

  be that's how you do it you have to do [TS]

  it that fast you get it that's true [TS]

  that's like lin-manuel said one of the [TS]

  reasons he's letting kids see it cheaper [TS]

  that the 10,000 [TS]

  school to school children around New [TS]

  York and you get ten dollar tickets and [TS]

  for them this is the starting point for [TS]

  what theater is they're going to sit [TS]

  down and assume oh that's what the [TS]

  musical looks like and then we get to [TS]

  see where they take their form i'm so [TS]

  excited to see this come to schools [TS]

  it is such an A like a little while [TS]

  Miranda describes all of the stuff that [TS]

  he writes as like really i'm just [TS]

  writing musicals for my high school and [TS]

  it's when you think about like in the [TS]

  heights and what he did from the heights [TS]

  but especially Hamilton there are so [TS]

  many parts so many juicy wonderful parts [TS]

  and it's not just two people singing [TS]

  two-thirds of the songs right it's there [TS]

  there's just these there's these [TS]

  intricate narratives I mean you think [TS]

  about you know the women get a bunch of [TS]

  great songs and it's again not just [TS]

  leading lady material its meaty [TS]

  interesting stuff there's great coral [TS]

  parts pretty much continually there's so [TS]

  much great coral park so many great [TS]

  coral part so many great individual [TS]

  parts the fact that you know you don't [TS]

  have to double cast jefferson and [TS]

  lafayette you can split them up if you [TS]

  really want to and you need to make more [TS]

  parts for a look at the airport before [TS]

  kids in the in the musical career [TS]

  yeah this is the III also i wanted to [TS]

  say in addition to the light the [TS]

  terrible legacy this and how it impacts [TS]

  the people in theater limb well Miranda [TS]

  when he was talking to Charlie Rose for [TS]

  60 minutes said that you know his [TS]

  experience with so many of these shows [TS]

  was the album's because he didn't you [TS]

  know he didn't go see musicals he [TS]

  remembers the first musical he saw but [TS]

  most of the time it was his parents and [TS]

  cast albums that it and and he said [TS]

  because they actually shot 60 minutes [TS]

  shot there's a there's a thing on the 60 [TS]

  minute website you can see they shot [TS]

  them or recording the cast album and in [TS]

  there Miranda says we realize this is [TS]

  going to be this is our stamp this is [TS]

  our thing that most people are going to [TS]

  hear because there are only so many [TS]

  people come here and on Broadway [TS]

  this is this is it you know we will and [TS]

  I want this to be good because you know [TS]

  for him [TS]

  that's one way you experience this stuff [TS]

  is not is not live in person and and [TS]

  uh you know the fact that we're so [TS]

  enthusiastic about it and talking about [TS]

  it here is telling because again we are [TS]

  those people experiencing it through the [TS]

  cast album and not being there in person [TS]

  I mean and and being there in person [TS]

  it's just different [TS]

  it's a slut it's a it's a slice of time [TS]

  it's every performance is unique that's [TS]

  one of the beautiful things about [TS]

  theater but the fat like I've never seen [TS]

  book of mormon never got a chance but [TS]

  I've listened to that LOL i've listened [TS]

  to that soundtrack and its really great [TS]

  and I have seen you know I did see the [TS]

  producers with matthew broderick nathan [TS]

  lane and that was great and I've got [TS]

  that and that's got some memories [TS]

  attached to it but regardless there [TS]

  they're different and I just I love his [TS]

  awareness of the fact that the cast [TS]

  album is super important because it is [TS]

  that that stamp like this is this is who [TS]

  we all whereas the original cast and [TS]

  this is how so many people will [TS]

  experience the story either before they [TS]

  see it or maybe they never see it but [TS]

  they experience it anyway and because [TS]

  the book is so scan it essentially the [TS]

  the cast album is the content of the [TS]

  musical with you know the audio content [TS]

  of the musical that's the other part [TS]

  it's not like you're missing long as you [TS]

  know spoken scenes the the stories told [TS]

  the music and so it's not like some [TS]

  other cast musicals were cast albums [TS]

  where you say oh I guess a story happens [TS]

  in between those two songs that does not [TS]

  happen and in Hamilton is it 530 great [TS]

  story actually somebody in the chatroom [TS]

  link to it i read i remember reading [TS]

  this a few weeks ago [TS]

  it is the how there are more words and [TS]

  hamilton and then any than any musical [TS]

  basically ever even close [TS]

  yeah yes I'm sure it's beyond yeah it [TS]

  was great to watch the 60 minutes piece [TS]

  because when when he's he's standing [TS]

  there with the shelf of cast albums and [TS]

  he's geeking out over camelot time I'm [TS]

  just kind of looking going [TS]

  that was my childhood that right there [TS]

  was the shelf of albums and i only love [TS]

  the way that he introduces Camelot or [TS]

  yes yes Rosie's like dis listen to go on [TS]

  here it has the dopest belittle every [TS]

  I'm telling you and that dude is a nerve [TS]

  yeah we at love him and I mean you know [TS]

  that but that was the thing was the cast [TS]

  albums were just the songs sometimes you [TS]

  got snippets of dialogue sometimes you [TS]

  didn't even get all the songs because [TS]

  you know they couldn't fit and they [TS]

  didn't want to do [TS]

  double album or anything the only thing [TS]

  I have that's comparable I i lucked into [TS]

  finding I don't even know why they did [TS]

  this at a an album of the entire text of [TS]

  tom stoppard's the real thing with the [TS]

  broadcast so it's jeremy irons and Glenn [TS]

  Close and cynthia nixon and and it's [TS]

  bizarre and it's sitting here on my [TS]

  shelf with all these musicals and I've [TS]

  listened to it once and Hamilton listen [TS]

  to over and over and over and over and [TS]

  over but yeah I mean that's it's it's so [TS]

  hard to get people into theater now [TS]

  because it's you know you've got netflix [TS]

  and hulu and you know all the [TS]

  entertainment options on your couch and [TS]

  then you have the cast album but this is [TS]

  what I mean my son doesn't necessarily [TS]

  want to go see theater all the time and [TS]

  he's that he's not a musical fan at all [TS]

  he wants to go see Hamilton he wants [TS]

  lin-manuel Miranda to write all the rest [TS]

  of history so that he can understand it [TS]

  better right [TS]

  he said can can you get him to do that I [TS]

  can't get him to do that i can probably [TS]

  get them to say hi on a video but i [TS]

  can't get them to do that [TS]

  get out but yeah i mean that's that's [TS]

  how that's how we did it in Florida you [TS]

  know you you'd watch the tonys once a [TS]

  year and you listen to all the cast [TS]

  albums and living in indiana same thing [TS]

  I can go to regional theaters i can go [TS]

  to the Broadway shows on tour still not [TS]

  quite the same and if you don't want to [TS]

  see any of the ones on tour huh tough [TS]

  and that's why i started this blog [TS]

  called broadway.com haha Thank You Monty [TS]

  segue [TS]

  yes I anything more before we wrap it up [TS]

  I feel like we've covered a lot of [TS]

  ground there's so much more to cover one [TS]

  could probably do a podcast in which [TS]

  every episode was covering just a single [TS]

  track of Hamilton for 46 episodes could [TS]

  one that's why don't you talk about it [TS]

  long enough Jason it i don't know i [TS]

  don't actually do you know half an hour [TS]

  on like my shot for example i think that [TS]

  could totally be in case maybe maybe [TS]

  maybe we'll see we'll see if somebody [TS]

  does a podcast like that those people [TS]

  would be kind of a kind of nuts even try [TS]

  something like that but that that you [TS]

  know it's yeah i just want to point out [TS]

  your kind [TS]

  it's nuts oh interesting kind of kind of [TS]

  maybe it is is David why don't people go [TS]

  to the uncomfortable calm / pod for ham [TS]

  and check it out it might be a podcast [TS]

  entirely about Hamilton otherwise it's [TS]

  time to wrap up our special episode [TS]

  about musical theater and it might [TS]

  happen again sometime you never know but [TS]

  these these uh hey there was just too [TS]

  much momentum too many people want to [TS]

  talk about Hamilton it's too exciting [TS]

  so we had to do it so thank you to my [TS]

  gas for enjoying the this change of pace [TS]

  with me David lure thank you thank you [TS]

  chip sudderth thanks for being here [TS]

  I'm only sorry that my son is 14 years [TS]

  old and it's too late for me to change [TS]

  his name to Hercules Mulligan maybe it's [TS]

  never too late maybe you can name a [TS]

  future cat Hercules Mulligan future cat [TS]

  Monty Ashley thank you thank you [TS]

  broadway.com thank you can if I stopped [TS]

  listening to Hamilton that yeah sure [TS]

  answer entity called well thank you [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  alright theater nerds back in the Box [TS]

  sci-fi nerds you can come back out [TS]

  I'm Jason sell for the income people [TS]

  will see you next time [TS]

  it has come to my attention that a lot [TS]

  of people are not aware of some of the [TS]

  other podcast on the incomparable [TS]

  network especially the TV podcast if you [TS]

  like shows like arrow the flash legends [TS]

  of tomorrow the expanse we are doing [TS]

  podcasts about a bunch of different TV [TS]

  shows on the TV podcast so if you want [TS]

  to hear us talking about the expanse for [TS]

  example you can get to it by going to be [TS]

  incomparable calm / TV te ve or just go [TS]

  to the incomparable calm and click on [TS]

  the subscribe link and you'll get a list [TS]

  of all the great shows on the [TS]

  incomparable [TS]

  [Music] [TS]