The Incomparable

283: The Stars Look Very Different Today

 

  [Music] [TS]

  the incomparable number of 283 January [TS]

  hello everyone and welcome back to the [TS]

  incomparable for a sort of flash cast [TS]

  episode in response to the very sad [TS]

  death of David Bowie earlier this week [TS]

  i'm your host Anthony Johnson and with [TS]

  me today making time at very short [TS]

  notice is Erica inside hello and happy [TS]

  and sad to be here [TS]

  yeah I think we all are yes the [TS]

  internets dr. drank hello and David law [TS]

  hello there yeah I think we're all kind [TS]

  of both happy and sad to be here you [TS]

  know we all love talking about Bowie we [TS]

  all loved him that's why we want to do a [TS]

  podcast about him but at the same time [TS]

  of course we're very sad that he's gone [TS]

  and he had such an incredible life and [TS]

  left such an incredible legacy his body [TS]

  of work is enormous his his legacy and [TS]

  reputation are enormous and nobody could [TS]

  say that he didn't live life to the [TS]

  absolute Felicia he lived five six seven [TS]

  lifetimes in the space of of one in his [TS]

  you know all too short time in the world [TS]

  I'm obviously we'll talk about that [TS]

  throughout the course of the show but at [TS]

  the same time there is no way we could [TS]

  cover the whole thing i did it a [TS]

  one-point i considered maybe [TS]

  chronologically going through his career [TS]

  and then I looked ahead and we were [TS]

  doing here take a while right you [TS]

  thought Star Wars was bad [TS]

  we would be here until next year year [TS]

  and so instead and I think this is [TS]

  appropriate for this sort of show [TS]

  instead I want to focus on what we meant [TS]

  to us to each of us and the legacy he [TS]

  will leave behind in our own lives and [TS]

  so the first thing I'm gonna ask and I'm [TS]

  going to ask i'm going to ask erica this [TS]

  first because Erica you're the youngest [TS]

  here haha I yes you are [TS]

  yeah what was what was the first Bowie [TS]

  song you heard how how did you hear it [TS]

  how did you then get further into his [TS]

  work and why what was it you know that [TS]

  you heard you saw in him or in his work [TS]

  made you want to seek out more of this [TS]

  this strange emiliana cartas test [TS]

  boy this is a lot like when i get a [TS]

  similar question about Doctor Who I [TS]

  don't have a good answer because I just [TS]

  grew up with David Bowie as a part of [TS]

  the fabric of my life my parents were [TS]

  rock'n'roll fans and my dad loved David [TS]

  Bowie so it was just this music that I [TS]

  always kind of knew I i always say that [TS]

  the rise and fall of ziggy stardust and [TS]

  the spiders from mars is my favorite [TS]

  album because i think that was the first [TS]

  album that I learned to love as a piece [TS]

  like as as all one you know I mean I'd I [TS]

  think as a really little kid I i [TS]

  gravitated toward the beatles because [TS]

  you know all papi and stuff but I [TS]

  remember being in junior high and high [TS]

  school and just sort of it wasn't [TS]

  discovering because i had always known [TS]

  how about the East artists but I guess [TS]

  rediscovering this is crazy science [TS]

  fiction album because I was always a [TS]

  huge geek as a kid and I just sort of [TS]

  learned that [TS]

  hey you can you can do anything in music [TS]

  it doesn't have to just be that sounds [TS]

  and and notes and and and fun words or [TS]

  even you know you're touching words it [TS]

  can it can tell stories and that was the [TS]

  first time I recognize that music could [TS]

  tell stories in that particular way so i [TS]

  would just listen to that album over and [TS]

  over and over and over again and yes I [TS]

  guess I don't have a first song i don't [TS]

  know exactly when i heard it at first [TS]

  but I do know that it was David Bowie [TS]

  that opened my eyes to a whole new Vista [TS]

  of the way that music could tell a story [TS]

  and then from there you know I got into [TS]

  other things that he did and you know of [TS]

  course had that stereotypical girl crush [TS]

  on the super androgynous amazingly [TS]

  sensual person that David Bowie was but [TS]

  it really started with with that album [TS]

  with these artists that's that's really [TS]

  interesting for the for two reasons I [TS]

  think firstly the storytelling thing [TS]

  because that was such a big part of his [TS]

  work and Bowie I remember an interview [TS]

  very early on in his career where he was [TS]

  asked to describe himself i think it was [TS]

  one [TS]

  just started moving into acting and [TS]

  somebody said you know what do you think [TS]

  of yourself as are you a performer are [TS]

  you a songwriter are you an actor and he [TS]

  just said I'm a storyteller and I [TS]

  thought that was a wonderful way of [TS]

  encapsulating everything that he did and [TS]

  a large part of the appeal of his work [TS]

  but also um so but this would have been [TS]

  around the time i'm guessing that this [TS]

  would have been around the time that in [TS]

  the charts he was doing stuff like the [TS]

  let's dance [TS]

  Aaron so you were aware of bowie already [TS]

  that was what was in the charts but it [TS]

  was Iggy Stardust that really grabbed me [TS]

  that's interesting I mean I loved the [TS]

  the radio stuff and I was hearing to and [TS]

  and I think that even at that time [TS]

  there's a part of me that recognize like [TS]

  this is the same guy he looks completely [TS]

  different and that in itself was another [TS]

  thing to to sort of draw me in but I [TS]

  think it also imparts he started because [TS]

  that was I think that was one of my [TS]

  dad's favorite albums of his he had a [TS]

  whole bunch of my vinyl I remember just [TS]

  looking at all the album covers as [TS]

  pieces of artwork when i was young i [TS]

  think the first thing that that really [TS]

  maybe go and re-examine Ziggy Stardust [TS]

  in a more profound way was i had a group [TS]

  of friends who are in a a band in high [TS]

  school and they were thinking of [TS]

  covering suffragette city and I go yeah [TS]

  that song i know that song and around [TS]

  that time I my mom mentioned that her [TS]

  favorite part of that song with the wham [TS]

  bam thank you ma'am line which is not [TS]

  only was I discovering David Bowie but I [TS]

  was discovering my mother is like a [TS]

  really full cool person which is kind of [TS]

  a neat thing to discover so think you [TS]

  did it boy for that as well so yes that [TS]

  was when I really just started listening [TS]

  to the album over and over again because [TS]

  I go yeah i know that song i should [TS]

  listen to it and then I just it was like [TS]

  falling into a whirlpool and and [TS]

  understanding so much more on the other [TS]

  side that's interesting you mentioned [TS]

  the the cover of the biggest donation [TS]

  sore but there were no there was a sort [TS]

  of impromptu gathering of people at [TS]

  headin straight where they album cover [TS]

  phys ed sanders was shot i saw some of [TS]

  the pictures on Twitter and I was like [TS]

  that is just what an amazing testament [TS]

  to the [TS]

  life's work of this person that did like [TS]

  I got misty and wish I was there right [TS]

  right i mean the four years is long gone [TS]

  you know mode the street looks quite [TS]

  different now but yeah everybody knows [TS]

  where that everybody find anyone knows [TS]

  where that photo was taken and so I mean [TS]

  there were gathering in Brixton where he [TS]

  was born and there's a mural outside [TS]

  brixton tube station as well which you [TS]

  know so you'd expect people together [TS]

  there but I thought it was interesting [TS]

  that a lot of people did go to heaven [TS]

  street specifically to the ziggy [TS]

  stardust location you know I water in [TS]

  fact that album that album cover had its [TS]

  like the zebra stripe abbey road [TS]

  yeah it is you know maybe not it's not [TS]

  at that level there's no you know web [TS]

  camera up constantly focused on it to [TS]

  watch tourists go oppose themselves and [TS]

  as you say if it doesn't look quite the [TS]

  same you know you don't you don't get [TS]

  the whatever the kwest sign over over [TS]

  the time you know it's not doesn't have [TS]

  quite the impact but still that's that [TS]

  is an iconic album cover and it's very [TS]

  much a location [TS]

  it absolutely is yet alright so yet dr. [TS]

  trying to tell us about your experiences [TS]

  started getting into Bowie and [TS]

  discovering bow [TS]

  well I i have similar troubles America [TS]

  had it complicated by the fact that I'm [TS]

  of course much much older and so I [TS]

  started listening to popular music in [TS]

  about nineteen seventy-two which would [TS]

  have put me at the right age and I was [TS]

  12 the time would put me at the right [TS]

  age to of listen to ziggy stardust aziz [TS]

  ziggy stardust wasn't on top 40 am radio [TS]

  in the states and this time don't bring [TS]

  out there listening to it right so what [TS]

  I was hearing at that time for whatever [TS]

  reason there was a lot of philly soul [TS]

  earth wind and fire the o'jays stuff [TS]

  like that was playing a lot very popular [TS]

  all Elton John of course to what was at [TS]

  that time and you know I continued [TS]

  listening to that as I was going through [TS]

  junior high [TS]

  off and i believe the first Bowie that I [TS]

  heard in New was Bowie would have been [TS]

  something off of the young Americans [TS]

  album know whether was young Americans [TS]

  itself whether it was Fame I don't know [TS]

  but it almost had to be that because [TS]

  that was a solo album and it's sort of [TS]

  fit in with what [TS]

  for whatever reason I mean there's a [TS]

  top-40 station y sol was was was such a [TS]

  big deal on that I think have to do with [TS]

  the DJ who is on at night when I [TS]

  listened [TS]

  that's that's what sort of in keeping so [TS]

  i think it was probably young Americans [TS]

  or fame [TS]

  interestingly you know this was before I [TS]

  was a Beatles fan really are so i've got [TS]

  i didn't come to fame through the john [TS]

  lennon channel like I came at it through [TS]

  while it was popular of course but [TS]

  through the David Bowie channel and then [TS]

  after that it probably wasn't until you [TS]

  know when I then I'm picking up whatever [TS]

  comes [TS]

  whatever comes working after the young [TS]

  American station to station so you're [TS]

  getting golden years right and TVC 15 [TS]

  which I just a spectacular song arm [TS]

  which I'll probably say many times [TS]

  during the show and then some time in [TS]

  college I kind of went back and went [TS]

  into it you know then you start [TS]

  recognizing oh no i've been hearing [TS]

  these songs I just didn't know who it [TS]

  was and then i but then i started to [TS]

  more excavate and and find ziggy [TS]

  stardust of course a hunky dory to some [TS]

  extent know and you know probably the [TS]

  song that most makes Bowie fit on the [TS]

  incomparable network which is space [TS]

  oddity of course yes ah yeah you know [TS]

  you that was that sort of like air you [TS]

  know it's it it was I get always been [TS]

  there [TS]

  it has always been there although I [TS]

  guess it didn't get issued as a single [TS]

  in the states until sometime in the [TS]

  early to mid seventies [TS]

  oh that's interesting maybe after the [TS]

  success of young berry [TS]

  kids behind yeah or maybe or maybe I [TS]

  think on the heels of ziggy because he [TS]

  did he did as a key coloring ok and so [TS]

  it was probably they said hey you know [TS]

  there was this thing that was kind of a [TS]

  hit in England maybe we should issue it [TS]

  over here and i think it was so frankly [TS]

  that maybe that was the first thing I [TS]

  heard but the first thing that I heard [TS]

  that I knew was David Bowie i'm pretty [TS]

  sure was on young Americans and what was [TS]

  that about that that sort of the drug [TS]

  you and I mean you said you were [TS]

  listening to radio was playing soul [TS]

  music so i assume that you liked soul so [TS]

  yeah I did and and it was uh it was [TS]

  extremely popular music music here at [TS]

  the time and uh it it had this weird I [TS]

  mean you could you heard parts of you [TS]

  know earth wind and fire or whatever in [TS]

  it but of course was very different [TS]

  because the vocals are very different [TS]

  and well and it was an Englishman's take [TS]

  on absolutely very American kind of [TS]

  music [TS]

  absolutely and you know later on I [TS]

  recognized you know he's got the [TS]

  instrumentation a little bit different [TS]

  there are a lot of things that are that [TS]

  are different about it but there was [TS]

  enough there that made it sound like [TS]

  what I had been listening to uh to draw [TS]

  me and I've always found the success of [TS]

  young Americans the popularity of young [TS]

  Americans in America quite fascinating [TS]

  because it is like to us you know to [TS]

  English people when we were growing up [TS]

  it did sound like an American record but [TS]

  haha as an adult now having you know [TS]

  sort of obviously heard a lot of [TS]

  American soul it's so clearly not you [TS]

  know it's so obviously a sort of an [TS]

  outsider's take on that form of music [TS]

  and yet it is still very popular in [TS]

  america i think Americans have always [TS]

  been interested in hearing what other [TS]

  cultures the UK especially sort of think [TS]

  of our are pop culture [TS]

  I mean young Americans is one example [TS]

  but also American Gods by Neil Gaiman [TS]

  which he wrote after living here for [TS]

  quite a while which it's just it you can [TS]

  very clearly see that it is the United [TS]

  States our country well it was my [TS]

  country at the time viewed through the [TS]

  eyes and the lens of somebody who is [TS]

  from elsewhere and the same thing [TS]

  happened with with young Americans [TS]

  well and of course in my own field the [TS]

  popularity of thinking about it of [TS]

  English writers doing superhero comics [TS]

  it doesn't hurt the next a good song [TS]

  oh sure but i mean that's that's we grew [TS]

  me and I'm in the album as a whole but [TS]

  yes I mean yeah where is the song is is [TS]

  a great great song so yet David tell us [TS]

  about your experiences whatever I'm [TS]

  starting to sense a theme here and I [TS]

  want to come back together but tell us [TS]

  about your experiences first was gonna [TS]

  say doctor during stole my answer [TS]

  yeah i mean your two older than the [TS]

  ziggy stardust album and probably the [TS]

  first thing i heard was either Space [TS]

  Oddity or something from young Americans [TS]

  and even at that you know I don't know [TS]

  how consciously it was because I was [TS]

  really young at the time and when in [TS]

  1983 we moved from Florida to New York [TS]

  and so suddenly I'm thrown into a whole [TS]

  new world a whole a very different kind [TS]

  of school and and situation everything [TS]

  and I latched on to music because that [TS]

  was a constant that was something that i [TS]

  could listen to and talk to other people [TS]

  about and that's right about when the oh [TS]

  what's the album [TS]

  oh gosh the let's dance album head yes [TS]

  83 with with china doll and let's dance [TS]

  in modern love and everything and I you [TS]

  know I fell in love with that album and [TS]

  that was right about the time when i'm [TS]

  i'm able to go to record stores on my [TS]

  own and check things out and listen [TS]

  stuff and go to the library text amount [TS]

  and I'm going ok I want to hear more of [TS]

  this guy and realizing that i had heard [TS]

  more of him all of my life and just [TS]

  hadn't associated the name right so it [TS]

  was like all of these songs that i [TS]

  recognized and going how and then [TS]

  hearing them in the context of the album [TS]

  right instead of just the singles and [TS]

  and from that point on I just I paid [TS]

  attention and kept collecting so the [TS]

  theme here clearly is that for all of us [TS]

  we've all just kind of grown up with his [TS]

  music being always there and very much a [TS]

  part of our lives grown-up and exactly [TS]

  the same is true for me my mother [TS]

  was probably a bigger boat we found my [TS]

  father but my father liked him fine as [TS]

  well my mother had a few albums [TS]

  including changes but we of course like [TS]

  this one of the first best of which is [TS]

  it you know a great introduction to [TS]

  bowie so light you guys I can't actually [TS]

  remember the first Bowie song that I [TS]

  heard the first sort of the first one [TS]

  where i was aware of all this is [TS]

  interesting and it's this guy Bowie and [TS]

  I should pay attention was actually [TS]

  ashes to ashes [TS]

  ok which was a I don't know whether how [TS]

  well that was received in the US but in [TS]

  the UK that was a big hit that was like [TS]

  it because it had the the really weird [TS]

  music video [TS]

  it was an odd sounding song anyway it [TS]

  was played on the radio all the time we [TS]

  would see the video on television on Top [TS]

  of the Pops it was a big thing and that [TS]

  was the first thing that made me sort of [TS]

  really pay attention and attracted me to [TS]

  him as an artist to make me then go back [TS]

  and sort of as you said that you know [TS]

  really seek his records in my mother's [TS]

  collection and sort of listen to stuff i [TS]

  also had my my father's brother my uncle [TS]

  made me compilation tapes of early Bowie [TS]

  stuff so i was listening to things like [TS]

  you know a lot insane and diamond dogs [TS]

  when I was quite young but it was all [TS]

  mixed up because he would cut out what [TS]

  he thought was a boring tracks soon so I [TS]

  have what I can sing along to things [TS]

  like Joe the lion and panic and [TS]

  destroyed [TS]

  no problem but some of the other tracks [TS]

  on those albums that are you know Lex [TS]

  papi i am barely have ever heard really [TS]

  are i'm curious Anthony you you so ashes [TS]

  to ashes of the first one you remember [TS]

  what did you think of it because it's [TS]

  it's a follow-on song right there [TS]

  yes I what did you and it wasn't just a [TS]

  while that you know there's this there's [TS]

  this interesting lyric about a guy [TS]

  called major time I don't know what it [TS]

  means but it's a cool song is that how [TS]

  is that how you have [TS]

  but honestly that i do not remember i [TS]

  think i had already heard Space Oddity [TS]

  at that point because of my parents [TS]

  record collection which I just traded [TS]

  for everything like my entire you know [TS]

  musical foundation is based on my [TS]

  parents record collection i think i'd [TS]

  already heard it so I think I got the [TS]

  reference or if I didn't maybe my mom [TS]

  may actually have even told me because [TS]

  she was quite a Bowie fan so she may [TS]

  actually have explained it to me i'm not [TS]

  sure but also i liked it because it was [TS]

  just weird and I was into a lot of weird [TS]

  pop music in the heck it is why does [TS]

  this not surprise me I suppose I suppose [TS]

  but it is i think is fascinating in the [TS]

  Bowie has been such a part of so many [TS]

  people's lives and like it as you said [TS]

  like space oddity is like air or Bowie [TS]

  was like air because he was just he was [TS]

  always there and you know give or take a [TS]

  few blips up and down here and there you [TS]

  could always pretty much rely on Bowie [TS]

  to be good to be interesting you know he [TS]

  was never boring and to be constantly [TS]

  changing which of course he became a [TS]

  famous for write what you know the thing [TS]

  about Bowie was at they're like the [TS]

  first thing I thought of when I when I [TS]

  heard of his death was he just never he [TS]

  was never in all these act ally yes yes [TS]

  and our how many people can you say that [TS]

  up not very many and and still going to [TS]

  his own beat no matter what the area no [TS]

  matter what the style but always somehow [TS]

  being contemporary yeah no matter what [TS]

  was going to be accepted by the audience [TS]

  he teaches did what he wanted everybody [TS]

  had to come along or jump off the train [TS]

  yeah yeah i mean the were again there [TS]

  were a couple of periods where that [TS]

  wasn't the case and post let's dance is [TS]

  the most famous example where he did [TS]

  really have a bit of a meltdown because [TS]

  he was trying to please his existing [TS]

  audience but the majority of his career [TS]

  yet he danced to the beat of a different [TS]

  drum he really did and he led the way in [TS]

  many cases not always sometimes he was a [TS]

  an early adopter of an existing trend [TS]

  but a lot of the times he was more than [TS]

  an early adopter he was you know an [TS]

  instigator and an innovator he appeared [TS]

  in a in a video game for goodness sakes [TS]

  and wrote the soundtrack to it [TS]

  omicron nomads soul they've actually [TS]

  Ubisoft have made that free for download [TS]

  magic memory is done [TS]

  oh good i haven't I mean I played it [TS]

  when it first came out because David [TS]

  Bowie doing music and and yeah I know [TS]

  however if I ever made it all the way [TS]

  through but it's one of those things I [TS]

  always meant to go back to and try to [TS]

  continue it glitched out on me so I [TS]

  couldn't finish but I still got to a few [TS]

  of the cutscenes where you get to see [TS]

  digital David Bowie performing his you [TS]

  know sort of lounge act in this this [TS]

  club and it was just I was I was [TS]

  transported it was that was probably one [TS]

  of the highlights of my entire video [TS]

  gaming experience was just that moment [TS]

  just because i was watching TV and he [TS]

  did cross media as we know he was an [TS]

  actor he did do things like soundtracks [TS]

  and stuff as well and so okay let's let [TS]

  me just talk about that for a little [TS]

  while i am have you all I mean everybody [TS]

  seen labyrinth obviously uh yeah I have [TS]

  not [TS]

  Oh surely really how I have not well you [TS]

  know whether to come out sexy sir [TS]

  ya see I'm I'm an adult by that time I'm [TS]

  I'm uh I'm growing up I married and it [TS]

  was something that I kind of wanted to [TS]

  see and and I was actually going to [TS]

  watch it last night as as prep because I [TS]

  figured it was going to come up and [TS]

  things and things happened and I can I [TS]

  couldn't I my movies watching time got [TS]

  cut short and I couldn't couldn't watch [TS]

  it so no i have not seen I mean I know [TS]

  I've seen the pictures so many times but [TS]

  I all I will step back and let Erica [TS]

  talk about the brand [TS]

  well I'd so will I but i just want to [TS]

  quickly say I eyesore in the cinema and [TS]

  then I didn't see it again except that [TS]

  are my parents my sister is quite a bit [TS]

  younger than me and my parents bought a [TS]

  VHS copy of it for my sister when she [TS]

  was a child and anybody who has children [TS]

  are very young siblings knows that [TS]

  when they like something they will [TS]

  consume it again and again and again and [TS]

  again and so I have seen labyrinth more [TS]

  times and probably any other movie just [TS]

  because of my sister but I don't have [TS]

  that excuse i did not discover labyrinth [TS]

  as a child [TS]

  actually it was at which is weird [TS]

  considering how much my parents like [TS]

  David Bowie but i'm pretty sure i did [TS]

  not see it around the time it came out I [TS]

  didn't discover it until i was just [TS]

  hardcore into that David Bowie phase [TS]

  where i was trying to find everything I [TS]

  could find with him and so I think it [TS]

  was probably my junior or senior year of [TS]

  high school [TS]

  so as a teenager that I saw it and [TS]

  because I was so in love with a boy of [TS]

  course i fell in love this film also its [TS]

  I mean it it's basically a a wizard of [TS]

  oz style girl gets to escape her you [TS]

  know drudgery life into a world of [TS]

  fantasy which is right up my alley [TS]

  so this movie was kind of tailor made [TS]

  for me and I fell in love with it and I [TS]

  was the one to watch it over and over [TS]

  and over again at one point I actually [TS]

  had five different copies of labyrinth [TS]

  because i have the version i had taped [TS]

  off of the Disney Channel and I had the [TS]

  VHS version and they had the VHS special [TS]

  edition and then I got the DVD and I [TS]

  mean it was just it went on I had the [TS]

  soundtrack i was i was a little [TS]

  labyrinth crazy and it became my sort of [TS]

  my touchstone it was my comfort movie [TS]

  every time life got scary or unsettled [TS]

  that's what I would would watch to sort [TS]

  of ground myself in the world so when I [TS]

  went away to college first time away [TS]

  from my family everything was scary I [TS]

  was really shy kid I i would watch it [TS]

  almost nightly in college and I got to [TS]

  the point where my roommate thought this [TS]

  was just insane but I could turn on the [TS]

  movie and then kind of start drifting to [TS]

  sleep but i would wake up for every [TS]

  single David Bowie seen no other ones [TS]

  let's see the rest of the movie but if [TS]

  David Bowie was on the screen i would [TS]

  wake up i would sit up and she was like [TS]

  you're in see what's wrong with you my [TS]

  poor roommate just compete thought it [TS]

  was crazy but he was a he was just I [TS]

  mean it's it is a kids movie there's no [TS]

  question about that but there's an awful [TS]

  lot more that you can read into it [TS]

  looking at it with an adult-sized his [TS]

  character to my mind doesn't appear in [TS]

  the movie often enough but he's there [TS]

  he's there enough to [TS]

  to sort of feed you this Great backstory [TS]

  he's he's suddenly underplaying enough [TS]

  parts that you know I've built this [TS]

  wonderful headcanon about about the [TS]

  background of this character and and [TS]

  he's he's not a mush mustache twirling [TS]

  villain he is he's a pained and broken [TS]

  character who just just wants love gosh [TS]

  darn it and doesn't know how to reach [TS]

  out and and take it and this stupid girl [TS]

  blunders in and it tries to save her [TS]

  baby brother and she just does it all [TS]

  wrong as far as I'm concerned if I was [TS]

  the only because things are going very [TS]

  very differently [TS]

  yeah i've never written fanfic in my [TS]

  life but the labyrinth is the very [TS]

  closest I've ever come to you doing that [TS]

  because it needs to be fixed [TS]

  Wow well you know you're listening to [TS]

  the labyrinth headcanon right and you [TS]

  free access the library's vertical our [TS]

  three [TS]

  you remind me of the babe Oh labyrinth [TS]

  aside though I mean that was kind of at [TS]

  the time I remember people almost [TS]

  laughed at Bowie you know being in that [TS]

  movie and sort of you but now on [TS]

  reflection we look back and go actually [TS]

  he was pretty good in that and he was a [TS]

  good actor this is the thing about [TS]

  either you know so many rock and pop [TS]

  stars try to move into acting like it [TS]

  just as many as actors try to become [TS]

  rock and pop stars and so many fail but [TS]

  bobby was I mean he famously took mine [TS]

  lessons like was quite a serious minded [TS]

  students early on in his career and [TS]

  that's how we learned some of the [TS]

  wonderful moves that he used to pull on [TS]

  stage and some of the fantastic my work [TS]

  that he did in film but he was as much a [TS]

  performer as he was a songwriter and [TS]

  again it comes back to this it all came [TS]

  together for him to be a storyteller he [TS]

  was just as committed to the craft of [TS]

  acting as he was being a musician and [TS]

  you know we saw that in things like the [TS]

  man who fell to earth and merry [TS]

  christmas mr. lawrence and his stage [TS]

  performance of the Elephant Man which I [TS]

  never saw what i read reviews of and [TS]

  reviewers were falling over themselves [TS]

  to be amazed how brilliant he was in [TS]

  that part and i did want to talk to you [TS]

  David about this because as the [TS]

  professional [TS]

  right here among us as the man who has [TS]

  actually owned a living on the stage [TS]

  what's your sort of assessment if you [TS]

  like Bowie as an actor I think he's he's [TS]

  magnetic he is fantastic i I've never [TS]

  seen him give a bad performance it's [TS]

  interesting the the storyteller comment [TS]

  because I've never heard that but that [TS]

  mean that's kind of how I've taken the [TS]

  other roles i do in theater whether it's [TS]

  designing posters or making sound [TS]

  effects or or even props which nobody is [TS]

  going to see closely except the actors [TS]

  but i always have that in the back of my [TS]

  head is that i am telling a story even [TS]

  in this little tiny medium even this [TS]

  little like 30 seconds of sound that I [TS]

  have to put together to sound like a [TS]

  convincing thing off stage right and [TS]

  that kind of shines through both in his [TS]

  music but in the way he performed on [TS]

  stage and the way he committed two [TS]

  characters in each of the different [TS]

  incarnations he had and then taking it [TS]

  the rest of the way onto the stage and [TS]

  into film i mean the the prestige which [TS]

  is a film i enjoy i like that movie but [TS]

  he walks in it for what five minutes and [TS]

  steals the film [TS]

  oh yes is the best thing in 10 minutes [TS]

  of screen time on that or something and [TS]

  yet nobody thinks of it as oh that's the [TS]

  movie Bowie's it [TS]

  yeah yep and and it's what was what's [TS]

  amazing to me about that one is like [TS]

  like the third man another film i love [TS]

  yes people think Orson Welles is in it [TS]

  for the whole thing they think Harry [TS]

  alignments the main character because [TS]

  everybody talks about Harry Lime for the [TS]

  whole damn movie and nobody talks about [TS]

  Tesla in this he shows up he does his [TS]

  thing he leaves the movie is nothing [TS]

  without and the movie would not be the [TS]

  same without him which is good [TS]

  you know it's it's a beautiful act of [TS]

  movie stealing and and but he was like [TS]

  that in the last temptation of christ [TS]

  right who would cast him as Pontius [TS]

  Pilate but that is a terrific terrific [TS]

  job of casting because he's again he's [TS]

  not just the evil mustache throwing [TS]

  villain right [TS]

  i I just I kind of wish i had been able [TS]

  to see the elephant man on stage because [TS]

  I i can imagine [TS]

  yeah i i'm i'm speechless at half of [TS]

  trying to trying to figure out how to [TS]

  explain it but yeah just that commitment [TS]

  to character which really shines through [TS]

  across all up all the media [TS]

  yeah it really does and as you saying [TS]

  he's you know work as a musician he's [TS]

  the personas they had adopted [TS]

  I mean it's a lesser artist may have and [TS]

  Bowie did feel restricted sometimes by [TS]

  the personas that he built he famously [TS]

  you know effectively killed ziggy [TS]

  stardust because it was becoming a [TS]

  self-fulfilling prophecy [TS]

  you know real life was now starting to [TS]

  mirror the story told on the record and [TS]

  he was being suffocated by the Ziggy [TS]

  Stardust persona but he did manage to [TS]

  move on from it and he didn't panic that [TS]

  he would be nothing without it and he [TS]

  did that so many times throughout his [TS]

  career do you think we ever really got [TS]

  to see the real David Bowie don't see [TS]

  where they're not all the real David [TS]

  Bowie yeah i agree i think i think [TS]

  they're alternately interesting right [TS]

  different facets of his personality [TS]

  well and also i think and i think you [TS]

  remember this career went on for an [TS]

  awfully long time it's it's so what in [TS]

  45 it's nearly 50-year career that we [TS]

  know him and you know people change / / [TS]

  times like that I mean none of us are [TS]

  the same person we were 20 years ago [TS]

  it's just that you know the people who [TS]

  have seen us over those 20 years have [TS]

  been the ones who are living with us [TS]

  it's it's not fans right who have [TS]

  perhaps a vested interest in one of our [TS]

  versions know he and he that's what he [TS]

  had to live with of course is the people [TS]

  and all artists do when they want to do [TS]

  something new is you know the people who [TS]

  like them for what they were five years [TS]

  ago don't want them to change they [TS]

  wanted to keep churning out the same [TS]

  thing again and again [TS]

  and what was it except and I think [TS]

  Anthony you got this exactly right arm [TS]

  the except Boeing didn't do that except [TS]

  perhaps in the aftermath of let's dance [TS]

  which was such a huge hit for him and [TS]

  sizes such such LOL i think [TS]

  life-changing event we've lost yet [TS]

  yeah uh that he kind of repeated himself [TS]

  a little bit there for her for a couple [TS]

  years [TS]

  yeah he found a huge new audience with [TS]

  let's dance he was starting to feel I'm [TS]

  starting to become irrelevant around [TS]

  that time and then the story is that he [TS]

  he literally went to nile rodgers and [TS]

  sent and said I want to hit let's write [TS]

  a hit [TS]

  I need a hit record and you know and if [TS]

  you're if you're going to write a hit [TS]

  record [TS]

  David Bowie and nile rodgers are pretty [TS]

  much two of the guys you go to do that [TS]

  and it became such a hit and found him [TS]

  out such a huge new audience that [TS]

  suddenly he was more commercially [TS]

  successful than he had ever been earning [TS]

  more money than he ever had doing bigger [TS]

  tours than he ever had and I remember [TS]

  the all the ads for the serious [TS]

  moonlight tour were everywhere under [TS]

  your work together well and even later [TS]

  on in there in the aftermath of things [TS]

  like never let me down you had the glass [TS]

  spider tour which was an enormous [TS]

  production a huge massive stage [TS]

  production that toured all over the [TS]

  place did like four continents or [TS]

  something [TS]

  it was ridiculous and yet he was [TS]

  famously burned out at the end of it and [TS]

  that's what led to him sort of [TS]

  retreating away from the spotlight and [TS]

  forming team machine but you know even [TS]

  when you look at that whole area that's [TS]

  still him changing into something else [TS]

  being the chameleon he hadn't yet been [TS]

  the person who was was the hitmaker who [TS]

  was going after commercial success so I [TS]

  don't mean some people i think me look [TS]

  at that face is selling out i look at it [TS]

  is him trying something new yet again [TS]

  oh no I agree completely yeah yeah it's [TS]

  yup the other thing about that about [TS]

  let's dance was that was the first time [TS]

  he was at the time this was considered [TS]

  to come back for him [TS]

  yeah because because he had been away [TS]

  for a few years he had gone off to do [TS]

  Elephant Man are scary monsters was the [TS]

  last album that he had done which was [TS]

  with 79 or 80 or something like that and [TS]

  it didn't have and I don't think you at [TS]

  the time I mean I think now we look back [TS]

  and say what you have a damn good album [TS]

  but I think at the time it was it wasn't [TS]

  as well received maybe some of the stuff [TS]

  that you've done so then he went off and [TS]

  he did Elephant Man use it and we all [TS]

  thought I'm 20 years old at this point [TS]

  I'm in my early twenties during this [TS]

  period i kind of thought David Bowie was [TS]

  done as a musician and he was only going [TS]

  to be doing acting oh wow [TS]

  and I don't know if that was a common [TS]

  view but he had been gone for a long [TS]

  time and the guy had put out albums like [TS]

  clockwork [TS]

  ever since 1970 or so and suddenly in in [TS]

  so you put out 10 11 albums in that [TS]

  decade and then suddenly he went to [TS]

  three years without an album and he had [TS]

  this other thing and we all knew you [TS]

  know because of the stage persona that [TS]

  he personas that he had always adopted [TS]

  in the way his stage shows had always [TS]

  worked we knew he was a very theatrical [TS]

  guy and now okay now he's on broadway in [TS]

  Elephant Man [TS]

  he's done he's he's found the new thing [TS]

  that he's going to do and he's not going [TS]

  to do music anymore is what's up with [TS]

  what i thought at the time and then he [TS]

  comes back with let's dance and yes [TS]

  there's no question it's it's much [TS]

  different from his earlier stuff it is [TS]

  very commercial boy it was good man that [TS]

  was a great apple it really was yeah [TS]

  there's a reason that it was so popular [TS]

  no absolutely and and if you don't think [TS]

  the u-men you everything about his stage [TS]

  shows change because it is it was so [TS]

  massive and he became you know what the [TS]

  way pink floyd turned into or the stones [TS]

  with these gigantic productions are you [TS]

  know he wasn't playing little places [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  uh oh god no no no you bringing normal [TS]

  arenas and stuff yeah no more beer like [TS]

  to guide him but you didn't mention [TS]

  about him putting albums out like [TS]

  clockwork [TS]

  uh I think was the BBC put a chart [TS]

  together a day or two ago with the face [TS]

  of a sort of blurry chronology just his [TS]

  music just looking at you know sort of [TS]

  how successful these albums had been and [TS]

  you look at that period of the seventies [TS]

  and oh my goodness he put out more music [TS]

  than you know some rock musicians do in [TS]

  their entire 30-year career was amazing [TS]

  that was more of a thing back then [TS]

  though our people didn't know that it to [TS]

  me it was Michael Jackson who invented [TS]

  the stretched out release our and not [TS]

  putting out an album every year or two [TS]

  and still being a viable and in in the [TS]

  in the public eye kind of artist you [TS]

  know the Beatles always put it they were [TS]

  also like clockwork the stones in the ER [TS]

  leaders like the alt same thing always [TS]

  putting our product because up until [TS]

  that this is the drain history of rock [TS]

  and roll [TS]

  forgive me this is not necessarily a [TS]

  certified by any academic environment [TS]

  but II it seems like up until about [TS]

  nineteen eighty people were still [TS]

  thinking that a rock-and-roll career was [TS]

  evanescent and you were gonna last and [TS]

  so you you hit it when when you got [TS]

  popular you stayed with it and you put [TS]

  the pedal down and you put out product [TS]

  continually you didn't dribble it out [TS]

  bits and bits and bits at a time you did [TS]

  it because it was going to be gone [TS]

  tomorrow right it's like being a [TS]

  professional athlete you've got maybe [TS]

  four years so get everything while you [TS]

  can [TS]

  exactly and you know i also wonder how [TS]

  how much the advent of mtv music videos [TS]

  sort of helped helped along with that [TS]

  you could stay in the public eye a [TS]

  little bit longer because your videos [TS]

  were getting so much so much rotation [TS]

  which means reaching somewhat of a [TS]

  different audience and the radio is and [TS]

  got i cannot remember like I can't count [TS]

  how many times I saw that dancing in the [TS]

  street video with him [TS]

  you think that he was everywhere for [TS]

  years i was gonna skip over that I [TS]

  wasn't going to let you know the pants [TS]

  the pants [TS]

  it's an infectious video I mean it drove [TS]

  me crazy at the time but at the same [TS]

  time it got stuck in my head all he [TS]

  wanted to do the move is a great song [TS]

  it's a great song [TS]

  it's like the collaboration with Queen [TS]

  under pressure [TS]

  it's like candy he's kind of cheesy and [TS]

  it's a bit you know it gets it is near [TS]

  one but it's a really good song and [TS]

  talking about videos I mean we still get [TS]

  that now [TS]

  actually that's a really good point [TS]

  about video enabling longevity of [TS]

  artists because with the release of [TS]

  black star his final album and in fact [TS]

  actually before it was released when we [TS]

  got the advanced video for the song [TS]

  black star they sort of it like 8-9 [TS]

  minute long video to go with the song [TS]

  which is a an amazing video but we know [TS]

  now clearly he wasn't healthy enough to [TS]

  do anything other than a video but he [TS]

  was able to do that and so sort of you [TS]

  know present the art in that way put in [TS]

  our minds and if we you know if he [TS]

  hadn't died we would never have known [TS]

  that he was ill during the making of [TS]

  that video because you can do that in [TS]

  film you can hide that sort of thing you [TS]

  can't do that if you're gallivanting [TS]

  around onstage during live performances [TS]

  no one of the one of the things that [TS]

  sort of amazed me this week and [TS]

  especially about black star so you know [TS]

  I was awake when the news broke in the [TS]

  middle of the night and the next morning [TS]

  you know and seeing everything on [TS]

  Twitter my kids I don't necessarily know [TS]

  if they have any frame of reference for [TS]

  who this is right and so my [TS]

  fourteen-year-old comes home from school [TS]

  that afternoon and we just started [TS]

  talking and talking about music and [TS]

  because you know there's this really [TS]

  good new album out [TS]

  did you hear the story about it like [TS]

  what what do you mean well trained at [TS]

  every you know all of his friends on [TS]

  Instagram all these you know everybody's [TS]

  got tributes to bowie and some of the [TS]

  teachers mentioned Bowie and so he went [TS]

  he went and listened to Blackstar on his [TS]

  own just out of curiosity and then he [TS]

  went back and realize that he knew [TS]

  all these other songs that had just been [TS]

  playing all of his life and connect them [TS]

  all and they said that's a really good [TS]

  album and it's really impressive that he [TS]

  did that in the last year and a half and [TS]

  I said yes that's kind of you know and [TS]

  and he said you know a black star is is [TS]

  a medical term for a kind of cancer [TS]

  lesion that's amazing [TS]

  he's brilliant and then I didn't know [TS]

  that God well and and what's what's [TS]

  really funny to me about that is that [TS]

  you know sadly this week alan rickman [TS]

  also passed away and I figured you know [TS]

  okay if that was the reaction to go if [TS]

  he knew hours before it came up in [TS]

  conversation at home because he was at [TS]

  school you know will surely surely he'll [TS]

  have heard about this because all of his [TS]

  friends watching all the harry potter [TS]

  movies right [TS]

  this is the big thing and he comes home [TS]

  I said did you hear the entertainment [TS]

  news today he goes [TS]

  did someone else die isn't he began at [TS]

  Helen recommend oh my god nobody was [TS]

  talking about that and you would think [TS]

  that would have had more of an impact on [TS]

  his immediate age-group because of the [TS]

  Harry Potter movies he has a very potter [TS]

  no didn't really come up but everybody [TS]

  everybody was still talking about and [TS]

  thinking about Bo and we've been [TS]

  listening to the music all week here on [TS]

  request miles like okay [TS]

  my son has good ten good taste and [TS]

  intentionally i think that's a good [TS]

  demonstration of the appeal Bowie had [TS]

  across generations and across boundaries [TS]

  and as I've said my mother my mother [TS]

  loves like you know poppin disco and she [TS]

  loved Bowie my father is always a rocker [TS]

  but he library as well you know he's [TS]

  brother my uncle when he made me the [TS]

  tapes he's basically a prog-rock you [TS]

  know he's the one going into Genesis for [TS]

  heaven's sake and he loved Bowie there [TS]

  was i don't know if you saw it there's a [TS]

  john snow the eminent British newscaster [TS]

  not the couch from games right made in [TS]

  an impromptu video a sort of unofficial [TS]

  video which he posted online with his [TS]

  sort of personal feelings about Bowie [TS]

  and you know and he's not a young man [TS]

  and he said we thought bobby was our [TS]

  rock hero you know because he was an [TS]

  adult by the time but his career was [TS]

  getting going about the same age and he [TS]

  was like we thought bobby was ours and [TS]

  now i'm discovering that actually every [TS]

  generation regarded Bowie as there's it [TS]

  was you know every generation discovered [TS]

  him and you because he reinvented [TS]

  himself because he had such a long and [TS]

  prolific career and because frankly he [TS]

  was just that damn good [TS]

  it's some it reminded me here maybe [TS]

  think of doctor who actually he and the [TS]

  way that everybody has their doctor you [TS]

  know he basically regenerated anything [TS]

  yes David Bowie has a Time Lord is [TS]

  something that i have seen on Twitter a [TS]

  couple of that [TS]

  yeah I'm sure there's some more fanfic [TS]

  for years you would have been a good [TS]

  doctor would have our don't don't [TS]

  torture us like imagine i think he would [TS]

  have been a good other time lord right [TS]

  no mention is the war doctor my marriage [TS]

  in islam and are at but there are cases [TS]

  and that leads us to his impact on [TS]

  culture as a whole across the [TS]

  generations across boundaries across [TS]

  media he made such a difference and one [TS]

  of the really interesting to me because [TS]

  this wasn't really my experience but it [TS]

  really interested in there i've seen [TS]

  people talking about on mine is the [TS]

  Bowie to a lot of people [TS]

  it felt like he effectively gave them [TS]

  permission to be weird like people who [TS]

  felt like outsiders outcasts you know [TS]

  the weird ones the Nerds the geeks which [TS]

  was believed me was definitely me when I [TS]

  was younger but i found my outlet for [TS]

  that through heavy metal and goth music [TS]

  but I'm finding a lot of people [TS]

  apparently found their sort of you know [TS]

  looked to bowie bowie bowie was [TS]

  effectively saying look it's okay to be [TS]

  weird [TS]

  actually you don't need to fit in you [TS]

  can be cool and weird at the same time [TS]

  yeah I think there's a lot of truth to [TS]

  that I mean that isn't that isn't my [TS]

  take on Bowie I mean he didn't save my [TS]

  life or anything like that I just really [TS]

  liked what he did but yeah you can [TS]

  certainly see that if you [TS]

  as soon as people started writing that I [TS]

  said yeah absolutely and that makes a [TS]

  lot of sense IE because he was weird and [TS]

  and and yet incredibly cool yeah i think [TS]

  for me I guess I never really had [TS]

  trouble being myself and maybe that's [TS]

  because I started listening to an [TS]

  absorbing poets at such a young age but [TS]

  i think i can i can see that a little [TS]

  bit kind of from the other side in that [TS]

  David Bowie introduced me to this this [TS]

  persona who was different things at [TS]

  different times and who is strange and [TS]

  androgynous and and just marching to the [TS]

  beat of his own literal drums and I knew [TS]

  kids when I was in school who were very [TS]

  weird androgynous and color their hair [TS]

  different colors and stuff and I wasn't [TS]

  one of those kids but because i had been [TS]

  exposed to David Bowie I was totally [TS]

  cool with that and I grew up in a pretty [TS]

  rural area and there were lots of kids [TS]

  who were not cool with that right so I [TS]

  feel like maybe had it not been for [TS]

  David Bowie and you know my [TS]

  understanding parents and stuff and [TS]

  stealing that sort of thing in me I you [TS]

  know I could have ended up being one of [TS]

  those other kids and thank you too David [TS]

  Bowie for the part that he had in [TS]

  teaching me that it's okay to be [TS]

  different it's okay to be queer all that [TS]

  stuff is is cool when and speaking of [TS]

  rural areas i mean that's that's where I [TS]

  live now and it's it still blows my mind [TS]

  earlier I guess last summer we had one [TS]

  of his fellow bandmates from ten machine [TS]

  came through and played at our venue [TS]

  here and I did all the post-american [TS]

  yarbs ok reeves gabrels is coming to [TS]

  town this is awesome and you know you [TS]

  could say to the locals you know here's [TS]

  this musician he's coming with his new [TS]

  album and his band you know and they had [TS]

  no idea who he was and only had to say [TS]

  was well he worked with David Bowie 00 i [TS]

  know this album this album this album [TS]

  this album he's on all those albums he [TS]

  was a collaborator that's fantastic i'll [TS]

  be there and the show sold out [TS]

  Wow and and it's like you know just what [TS]

  I think this town is like the [TS]

  stereotypical rural American middle [TS]

  Western you know get me out of here kind [TS]

  of town they surprised me [TS]

  it's like and then again that just shows [TS]

  how [TS]

  how easily he was able to cross over [TS]

  those barriers and boundaries that that [TS]

  he was at all appealing to the kind of [TS]

  people who just live here and listen to [TS]

  lawrence well and it's like in a way we [TS]

  we have that lets dance phase to thank [TS]

  for that because if he hadn't hit that [TS]

  makes level of popularity with matt and [TS]

  mass appeal then I'm on many many people [TS]

  wouldn't have dug in a little bit [TS]

  farther and discovered all of those cool [TS]

  weird things in addition to the pop [TS]

  stuff so it's like my grandparents loved [TS]

  him but they discovered him through the [TS]

  Bing Crosby christmas special [TS]

  Wow and and what what amazes them and [TS]

  and my grandmother talked about this [TS]

  several times over the years was that [TS]

  his counterpoint to the song was so [TS]

  lovely and and their voices blended so [TS]

  well and of course the story was that he [TS]

  didn't want to sing the song he wanted [TS]

  to sing something more interesting so [TS]

  they came up with that on the spot so [TS]

  that he didn't have to sing the [TS]

  traditional song how and you know but [TS]

  but it is it's a beautiful [TS]

  that's a really good performance yeah [TS]

  you know without any without having seen [TS]

  it you know you you hear the the names [TS]

  we go [TS]

  no that's not gonna work that's [TS]

  fantastic what and i think the other [TS]

  interesting thing that I've always [TS]

  thought about that is that you can see [TS]

  that while obviously very is kind of [TS]

  like I'm the new blood [TS]

  you know you're the old guard at the [TS]

  same time there's no you don't get any [TS]

  kind of impression of disrespect going [TS]

  cross me from beaudinot mean there's no [TS]

  sort of punkish yeah whatever granddad [TS]

  you don't know anything attitude which [TS]

  you can imagine your berry mind how [TS]

  successful but he was you can imagine [TS]

  many performers of his era would have [TS]

  felt a little like what am I doing here [TS]

  with this weird middle-aged geezer you [TS]

  know but Bowie clearly respected Crosby [TS]

  and I think that really helps with the [TS]

  performance you know I think it's less [TS]

  obvious that Crosby respected by which [TS]

  is why it's not one of my favorite thing [TS]

  I can't claim gentleman right there [TS]

  I would not call it fantastic involved [TS]

  the bones performance is great i'm not [TS]

  sure even knew [TS]

  ruby was exactly that's interested the [TS]

  story about riesgo bros because that [TS]

  leads to an area where i wanted to talk [TS]

  about which is the body's collaborators [TS]

  he was very good at choosing [TS]

  collaborators we're very generous with [TS]

  many of his collaborators read [TS]

  Gabrielle's incidentally was not just a [TS]

  collaborator he also produced a couple [TS]

  of days later rooms he produced [TS]

  earthling and I think ours as well and [TS]

  of course was instrumental in 10 machine [TS]

  it was it was really Gabrielle's who [TS]

  basically at the end of the glass by [TS]

  Dassault or said to bowie look you're [TS]

  clearly burnt-out you need to stop doing [TS]

  this thing that you hate what you think [TS]

  everybody wants you to do because it's [TS]

  just gonna kill you [TS]

  you've got to do you go back to doing [TS]

  what you want to do because that's why [TS]

  everybody loved you in the first place [TS]

  so you know we all have reached [TS]

  gabrielle was quite a debt actually but [TS]

  what was looking it up he was also [TS]

  involved in Omicron which I did not know [TS]

  i didn't know that no but yet there was [TS]

  those risk of girls obviously this tony [TS]

  visconti for many many many years [TS]

  brian eno several times most famously [TS]

  with the Berlin trilogy but also with [TS]

  outside which is my personal actual [TS]

  Ashley favorite Bowie album but that's [TS]

  probably just because i love you know so [TS]

  many people that he collaborated with [TS]

  some of them [TS]

  robert fripp famously some of the many [TS]

  times some of them only wants but he was [TS]

  really good at choosing people to work [TS]

  with that would complement him and that [TS]

  would push him to do interesting new [TS]

  things now I think it you know the [TS]

  original i would say is Mick Ranson em [TS]

  and Robinson was a was I think you need [TS]

  now I'm maybe the the very late Bowie i [TS]

  don't i don't know so much about a stage [TS]

  act but it ransom share it but we shared [TS]

  the stage with router which is not [TS]

  something you see if you look at concert [TS]

  video from others other stages of [TS]

  Bowie's career typically are its Bowie [TS]

  yeah you know their backup singers there [TS]

  are musicians floating around [TS]

  but it's Bowie he's the focus and he he [TS]

  allowed ronson to have the focus for [TS]

  huge chunks of stage time during the [TS]

  ziggy years and and of course played off [TS]

  of him a tremendous amount so and you [TS]

  know I I don't think Robinson gets [TS]

  songwriting credit on those but he made [TS]

  the steel guitar made those songs the [TS]

  way they are I mean he was i think i [TS]

  think you get production credit bra on [TS]

  Ziggy Stardust I don't have the album in [TS]

  front of me but he was a huge part of [TS]

  the sound of bowie during you know that [TS]

  element aladdin sane [TS]

  yeah he was and of course it was ronson [TS]

  that i'm not sure if this is sort of [TS]

  ever made the news in America but [TS]

  overhear it was huge it was ronson that [TS]

  Bowie put his arm around while they were [TS]

  performing I think it might have been [TS]

  busy status on Top of the Pops now some [TS]

  context like men did not put their arm [TS]

  around other men in a friendly fashion [TS]

  right in the nineteen seventies in the [TS]

  UK that especially not on television and [TS]

  especially not when wearing makeup and [TS]

  spangly glam-rock outfits and you know [TS]

  there were things open to the waist and [TS]

  showing their chest it was just it was [TS]

  one of the most homosexual things that [TS]

  had ever been shown on British [TS]

  television other point even though it is [TS]

  not homosexual at all but the public [TS]

  perception was that this was outrageous [TS]

  absolutely daring and outrageous and it [TS]

  was bo & Johnson who did that and I [TS]

  think and that was a huge cultural [TS]

  moment as well [TS]

  well it was that was very toned down [TS]

  from the stage show which was more like [TS]

  simulated fellatio with the with rounds [TS]

  and guitar really sorry and all yes [TS]

  yeah so so so the BBC's Top of the Pops [TS]

  got got the safe version [TS]

  right but even that was not I mean yes [TS]

  safe compared to the stage version but [TS]

  yellow for television at the time here [TS]

  was not regarded safe at all [TS]

  that's as crazy and then yes I said you [TS]

  know Tony Visconti brian eno all these [TS]

  people that he was so generous with and [TS]

  some of them like visconti came back and [TS]

  work with him again and again and again [TS]

  so you the must've you know and they [TS]

  didn't need to [TS]

  this is the thing as well as some of [TS]

  these people are very successful in [TS]

  their own right [TS]

  some of them like this county is [TS]

  certainly you know I'm sure that man [TS]

  never needs to work again for the money [TS]

  so I think it speaks to the quality of [TS]

  his work that so many of these people [TS]

  came back again and again to be [TS]

  effectively silent partners because [TS]

  nobody except enthusiasts really cares [TS]

  who else is on the records other than [TS]

  Bowie not to always bring it back to [TS]

  elaborate but even the labyrinth [TS]

  soundtrack he wrote all of the songs for [TS]

  the soundtrack for the movie even the [TS]

  ones that he didn't thing and it was [TS]

  actually a composer trevor jones who did [TS]

  the score for the film and I don't know [TS]

  what came first his songs or the score [TS]

  but regardless as you listen to that [TS]

  sound track everything weaves together [TS]

  beautiful yeah yeah so I mean it's just [TS]

  it you don't necessarily know that it [TS]

  was actually written by two different [TS]

  people so i don't know if it was trevor [TS]

  jones and morphing or David Bowie or [TS]

  both of them working together but [TS]

  whatever it is it comes out great when [TS]

  you know one of the the hottest tickets [TS]

  in new york right now is the play [TS]

  Lazarus which he collaborated with [TS]

  player a tender Walsh who is a very very [TS]

  good playwright and director Ivo van [TS]

  hove and again you know picking really [TS]

  good collaborators and it's basically an [TS]

  adaptation of The Man Who Fell to earth [TS]

  as a musical that has some original [TS]

  stuff that the song Lazarus that's on [TS]

  black star is the title song from this [TS]

  and it's got some you know other songs [TS]

  from his catalog and everybody I know [TS]

  who has seen it has said it is [TS]

  spectacular huh was spectacular in a [TS]

  literal sense or just in that it's [TS]

  amazing just that it's an amazing night [TS]

  of theater [TS]

  but right now I was gonna say i'd advise [TS]

  I can't somehow imagine something like [TS]

  that being spectacular in the left in [TS]

  the literal stage sense it's not really [TS]

  the right mood but but to think that [TS]

  that is collaborating on that at the [TS]

  same time as all of this and and making [TS]

  black start doing all of that other [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  yeah it's just served you know it seeing [TS]

  that 18-month period as I have to do as [TS]

  much as I can before i'm gone right yeah [TS]

  and-and-and getting all of this heart [TS]

  out and all those aren't that it's not [TS]

  just that it's really good stuff [TS]

  it's also you know at the time when it [TS]

  first premiered you know you go thats [TS]

  it's the man fell to earth ok and and [TS]

  you know when the news came out about [TS]

  black start coming out soon right [TS]

  we always got a new album this is [TS]

  fantastic and and in retrospect it all [TS]

  ties together and and is has an even [TS]

  deeper meaning than we could have [TS]

  thought at the time [TS]

  absolutely yeah yeah I'm actually [TS]

  something that's just come to mind [TS]

  talking about his generosity and you all [TS]

  know that Duncan Jones the film director [TS]

  is his son right that's only bits [TS]

  yeah yes at the premiere of I think it [TS]

  was source code which was Jones his [TS]

  second major movie the body was there he [TS]

  went to the premiere get a sort of in [TS]

  mufti as he were he didn't dress up for [TS]

  anything for you but he was there the [TS]

  premier accompany his son and he refused [TS]

  to answer any questions from the press [TS]

  not in a slutty way but in a sort of [TS]

  people were like oh my god he's here [TS]

  he's here he's here they all want to [TS]

  talk to him and he was just like no no I [TS]

  you know talk to my son [TS]

  hi this is not i am here to support my [TS]

  son I am NOT here for you to talk to me [TS]

  and make it about me go away and I just [TS]

  thought of ways [TS]

  yeah that's wonderful well i think you [TS]

  know what you said earlier about people [TS]

  not just cut you can imagine anyone [TS]

  would want to collaborate with Bowie arm [TS]

  but people want to collaborate with him [TS]

  a second time I think says more it right [TS]

  yeah it says more about him as a person [TS]

  there's [TS]

  then as an artist and everyone would [TS]

  want to collaborate with them as an [TS]

  artist but the fact that they wanted to [TS]

  come back means the experience was good [TS]

  right yeah because everybody wants to do [TS]

  it because like I'm God is bowing of [TS]

  course that would be brilliant but [TS]

  artists like him often have a reputation [TS]

  for being difficult and you know but [TS]

  there are stories of bowie being [TS]

  somewhat difficult various times [TS]

  throughout his career but yeah clearly [TS]

  overall must have been fairly good to [TS]

  work with or it must have been worth it [TS]

  at least even if it was hard work and he [TS]

  did drive his collaborators hard he [TS]

  worked very fast he was very a bit like [TS]

  Madonna is now he like you went in like [TS]

  okay this is what I want to do and this [TS]

  is the kind of sound I'm after [TS]

  let's do it and let's do it quickly when [TS]

  you think about the length of his career [TS]

  as we're talking about before it's a [TS]

  long time the number of stories of him [TS]

  being difficult is much much less than [TS]

  the number of stories of certain other [TS]

  actors and musicians being difficult in [TS]

  say five or 10-year period so yeah so I [TS]

  still think he's coming out looking [TS]

  pretty good i mean who doesn't have [TS]

  their bad days right well and also I [TS]

  mean he knew what he wanted and he and [TS]

  he insisted on giving it and i think [TS]

  most people who are all who are artists [TS]

  in their own right understand that and [TS]

  they appreciate it when it was done you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yes there are going to be bad days there [TS]

  there I've seen things about the young [TS]

  American you uh young Americans sessions [TS]

  where he was you know dealing with [TS]

  backup singers and he wanted he wanted [TS]

  things to come in in an unusual way and [TS]

  it was it was not the way they were used [TS]

  to singing but they did it and then when [TS]

  they heard it they said yes he was right [TS]

  that's what that's how it worked and [TS]

  they're happy with it yeah i think [TS]

  that's that's something that a lot of [TS]

  artists go through and it is important [TS]

  God knows I've been in that in similar [TS]

  sort of situations myself working on [TS]

  collaborations where ya you get is hard [TS]

  but at the end of it you like okay and [TS]

  actually that was worth it something [TS]

  really good came out of [TS]

  so yeah you I can sympathize with that [TS]

  to an extent so they're on the same [TS]

  scale as definite moment but yet he's [TS]

  with artistic endeavors [TS]

  sometimes you just have to sort of drive [TS]

  through and go look trust me I know what [TS]

  I'm doing and it'll be worth it at the [TS]

  end and you need to have that trust in [TS]

  whoever's guiding the ship whoever is [TS]

  steering the boat you need to have the [TS]

  the trust in them that they will get you [TS]

  to the other side it'll be worth it at [TS]

  the end and of course you know later on [TS]

  the end and of course you know later on [TS]

  in his career how could you not have [TS]

  that kind of faith in bowie again apart [TS]

  from a couple of stumbles like never let [TS]

  me down [TS]

  it's hard to think of anything he did [TS]

  that wasn't at the very least [TS]

  interesting even if you didn't [TS]

  personally like it everything he did [TS]

  more or less was interesting and you [TS]

  look at it and go wow ok he's do you [TS]

  know he's trying something here he's [TS]

  clearly working towards something that [TS]

  he's doing stuff that's worth talking [TS]

  about it's not just dross yeah and it's [TS]

  not the same thing [TS]

  and as I said at the beginning he's not [TS]

  an oldies act you know you're not seeing [TS]

  a guy having a fit because you don't [TS]

  play the guitar the way his original [TS]

  guitarist played at 50 years ago [TS]

  right right i mean Space Oddity 1969 it [TS]

  still feels current still feels fresh [TS]

  it's amazing isn't it that yeah yeah [TS]

  talking about him not being an oldies [TS]

  act actually after that period when he [TS]

  was doing Tim machine and he also did [TS]

  the San division tour and that was the [TS]

  one way he famously build it as this is [TS]

  the last time I will ever play all of [TS]

  the classic songs now that wasn't [TS]

  actually true he went to commemorate [TS]

  yeah he never is but at the time i think [TS]

  at the time it may have been he may have [TS]

  been one of the first of those sort of [TS]

  long-lived acts to do that to at least [TS]

  say that and sort of at least appear to [TS]

  have that commitment and demonstrate if [TS]

  you like through that to say to people [TS]

  i'm not an oldies act and we're just [TS]

  going to get this out of the way and [TS]

  then we're going to focus on whatever I [TS]

  do next which yeah I don't think many [TS]

  people who had been around as long as [TS]

  Bowie and not the were many was doing [TS]

  that at the time silly the rolling [TS]

  stones wouldn't do that now I was [TS]

  thinking about space already on a long [TS]

  drive today that they took before the [TS]

  podcast arm and [TS]

  if you had never heard the song and you [TS]

  just had it described to you you would [TS]

  not believe that it's still popular 45 [TS]

  years later I because because I'm the [TS]

  surface just hearing it described you [TS]

  would think that this is a novelty song [TS]

  wouldn't you any that yeah [TS]

  the title is a pun number one it's a pun [TS]

  on a movie that was popular at the time [TS]

  or the year before arm it's uh the movie [TS]

  had stuff about astronauts in it and the [TS]

  song is about astronauts and the and the [TS]

  song is released on the eve of the [TS]

  Apollo 11 mission and it's got sound [TS]

  effects in the middle of the song [TS]

  yeah everything about that song if you [TS]

  hear it described and don't actually [TS]

  know the song would think all that's [TS]

  that's was written by Ray Stevens you [TS]

  know and it's like the street or or [TS]

  whatever its that's not a real sign of [TS]

  oh yeah it might be popular because you [TS]

  know it's funny or whatever but it [TS]

  wouldn't be affecting to anybody you [TS]

  would regard it as a classic rock song [TS]

  the way we do now yeah no not not on the [TS]

  surface and when you listen to the [TS]

  lyrics I'm and again this goes back to [TS]

  being a storyteller and I and I love [TS]

  when things surprise me i love when [TS]

  something so simple of you know as just [TS]

  a conversation [TS]

  who would think to write a song about a [TS]

  conversation between these two people [TS]

  right over these two situations and and [TS]

  certainly if you're thinking hey I want [TS]

  to write a hit that's not what you're [TS]

  going to write right and you know nile [TS]

  rodgers would have talked him down haha [TS]

  the but it's just brilliant and i love [TS]

  when a musician or a and whining [TS]

  storyteller frankly can surprise me like [TS]

  that can take something so out of left [TS]

  field and and make me love it not just [TS]

  you know that's a good story but it's a [TS]

  real [TS]

  you good story told really well yeah and [TS]

  it's it is a to me it's a very seventies [TS]

  song and has a very seventies mindset to [TS]

  it despite coming out in 1969 arm and in [TS]

  particular i'm thinking of the lyric of [TS]

  the the papers want to know whose shirt [TS]

  you wear [TS]

  yeah but not because it's it's very wise [TS]

  in its understanding of celebrity and [TS]

  commercial commercialism but an end you [TS]

  know you guys all talked about the [TS]

  peanuts the Charlie Brown Christmas [TS]

  about and so commercialism is not it's [TS]

  not a big deal but it was it had a [TS]

  seventies attitude toward it which was [TS]

  basically yeah okay that's that's how it [TS]

  is it wasn't railing against it it [TS]

  wasn't it what that lyric always reminds [TS]

  me of the party in satisfaction where [TS]

  you know he can't be a man because he [TS]

  doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me [TS]

  it's it's automatically very similar [TS]

  except Jagger is upset by it because [TS]

  that's a very 60s thing all this [TS]

  commercialism it's terrible now for [TS]

  Bowie it's just it's water off a duck's [TS]

  back [TS]

  that's the way it's it's a matter of [TS]

  fact and that's the seventies you have [TS]

  to me and have you all read the flight [TS]

  of the conchords piece this week [TS]

  yes only remain clemont's right have you [TS]

  all seen the bones episode of flight of [TS]

  the conchords oh yes you may have seen [TS]

  some clips right boys in space [TS]

  well he he wrote this wonderful piece [TS]

  this week about the creation of that [TS]

  episode and that how it all started with [TS]

  the song boys in space they used to do [TS]

  in there stay Jack and I mean it's a [TS]

  wonderful place and you should you [TS]

  should go and read it anyway but the [TS]

  thing the reason that came to mind is [TS]

  because he spends the first part of it [TS]

  talking about how deceptively complex [TS]

  Bowie's music is like they were [TS]

  deconstructing Bowie's music to try and [TS]

  they would first though of course trying [TS]

  to learn how to play but [TS]

  songs when they were young who wasn't [TS]

  one of my very first guitar song books [TS]

  was a David Bowie songbook when I was [TS]

  like 13 but they were not only that but [TS]

  then when they came to do this parody [TS]

  stroke pastiche they were trying to [TS]

  build a bony song that you know didn't [TS]

  exist but sounded like it could have [TS]

  existed and could be a pony song and now [TS]

  we're frustrated at how incredibly [TS]

  difficult it was [TS]

  haven't you know they admit basically [TS]

  there by the end of it they were like [TS]

  what we ended up with these actually [TS]

  nothing at all like you nowhere near as [TS]

  complex as a bony song but it'll do [TS]

  it'll pass [TS]

  what a tall order that's that's amazing [TS]

  yeah I don't mean it is a great song and [TS]

  it's a it's a great episode the whole [TS]

  episode brim [TS]

  it's a wonderful loving you know gentle [TS]

  poke gentle ribbing of David Bowie's [TS]

  persona and you know he's music and [TS]

  stuff but yeah that article is really i [TS]

  mean it's great for that but it's also a [TS]

  sage treatment because it's also just a [TS]

  lovely tribute to Bowie's again but his [TS]

  legacy and his impact upon culture right [TS]

  because it's not about spoofing [TS]

  everything even though the song is very [TS]

  funny in the episode is very funny but [TS]

  it comes out of a genuine love it's not [TS]

  it's not just hey i can i can do a fake [TS]

  song by this guy right it's it's a real [TS]

  a real labor of love for them [TS]

  yeah it's like I always say the best [TS]

  parody is done by people who actually [TS]

  love the thing they are parodying you [TS]

  know it's it's very difficult to hit the [TS]

  right notes unless you do actually love [TS]

  the thing that you are also making fun [TS]

  of as someone who does a lot of parody i [TS]

  can attest to that [TS]

  hey enfant and all right I'm favorite [TS]

  album Erica should i say my second [TS]

  favorite albums and so pretty much [TS]

  already covered that it would [TS]

  that's true actually here so no so it's [TS]

  okay so you said he was biggest artists [TS]

  year and is that just because it's been [TS]

  with you for so many years [TS]

  nothing that he released later you know [TS]

  hit you in the same way [TS]

  nothing he released later did hit me in [TS]

  the same way so I mean maybe a big part [TS]

  of it is just the fact that but of when [TS]

  I discovered it but like i said it's not [TS]

  my favorite David Bowie alum it is my [TS]

  favorite album period so i'm gonna kind [TS]

  of rises above above everything else and [TS]

  it has this magical place in part [TS]

  because it was the first concept album [TS]

  that I had ever been introduced to in [TS]

  the first time I saw a story being told [TS]

  through the songs and and all of that [TS]

  stuff seemed seemed really mind [TS]

  expanding and magical and nothing's ever [TS]

  gonna hit you quite the same after you [TS]

  experienced that and also I really [TS]

  freaking love the songs I mean they're [TS]

  just they're great songs I don't wanna I [TS]

  don't want to downplay that but i would [TS]

  say that I mean maybe it's just because [TS]

  I was kind of stuck in that that zone of [TS]

  that mode of David Bowie but my second [TS]

  favorite of his albums is aladdin sane [TS]

  which was the very very next one so not [TS]

  not entirely different but i just-i I [TS]

  felt like it if it was the closest thing [TS]

  I could get to my favorite album without [TS]

  being afraid I'm so i really liked it i [TS]

  just i love the songs on that one and [TS]

  but you know it's just thinking my [TS]

  actual my favorite David Bowie songs the [TS]

  22 favorite songs i think of all are [TS]

  probably life on Mars and oh you pretty [TS]

  things which are from hunky-dory which [TS]

  of course was before [TS]

  ziggy stardust so yeah that is that is [TS]

  sort of my those three albums in a row [TS]

  that's that's my sweet spot that's my [TS]

  butter zone [TS]

  David Bowie for what it's worth I [TS]

  actually think that allowed insane has [TS]

  overall a better selection of songs and [TS]

  ziggy stardust you know I look this [TS]

  isn't a couple of the songs on Ziggy [TS]

  Stardust are fantastic but overall you [TS]

  know panic in Detroit cracked actor [TS]

  drive-in saturday allowed in the same [TS]

  time genome c'mon you know these are [TS]

  absolute classic songs so yeah I can't [TS]

  say I blame you for choosing both of [TS]

  those albums really and dr. drank what's [TS]

  your favorite help [TS]

  well i'm going to be boring here my [TS]

  favorite my favorite album is Iggy I [TS]

  mean it's [TS]

  if you can you put that on and you [TS]

  listen to it and every some of the songs [TS]

  lead from one to another is is just a [TS]

  fantastic album and i'm going to suggest [TS]

  that you're wrong [TS]

  the songs on there are every bit as good [TS]

  as the song on on a lab insane i'd say [TS]

  they're more consistent for me for sure [TS]

  yes I mean of course I love things that [TS]

  are on Aladdin Sane but i can't possibly [TS]

  my favorite snippet of bowie lyric is [TS]

  keep your electric eye on me i don't [TS]

  know why but there's just something [TS]

  about the you know his illusion of the [TS]

  first e in an electric I don't know what [TS]

  it is about that but that it's not just [TS]

  the lyric it's it's the way the music is [TS]

  going to that was saying yeah yeah it's [TS]

  it's just it's spectacular and I [TS]

  whenever I'm listening to to see stars [TS]

  which of course i play at maximum volume [TS]

  because that's what it said was yeah it [TS]

  says on the album that I wait for that [TS]

  and I am if I'm listening I'm doing [TS]

  something else I stopped and then I and [TS]

  I wait for that when when that song [TS]

  comes on just like my mom with when bam [TS]

  thank you ma'am [TS]

  well and I don't blame her for that I [TS]

  mean that's that's what you but you've [TS]

  got the thing about about wham bam thank [TS]

  you ma'am is you gotta build up to that [TS]

  you can call you you can have you get [TS]

  you get a chance to sort of put your [TS]

  stuff put you know put things down and [TS]

  so because you know it's really okay [TS]

  here we go [TS]

  i think the the one thing i will say [TS]

  about biggest artists is it has the best [TS]

  and sweet of any of those albums and [TS]

  because the ends with biggest artists [TS]

  suffragette city on rock and roll [TS]

  suicide [TS]

  Oh average is you know I don't think any [TS]

  of his albums came close to finishing [TS]

  that strong you know you have three [TS]

  absolute classic songs one in a row [TS]

  automatically brilliant and ending with [TS]

  rocker also settlement you know just [TS]

  fantastic [TS]

  yeah leave them wanting more absolute [TS]

  here [TS]

  so David what's your favorite album well [TS]

  I'm gonna kind of cheat and maybe it's [TS]

  because I've been listening to this one [TS]

  mostly this week but the 2002 collection [TS]

  best of bowie what is it oh come on Jack [TS]

  whatever mischief discovers it covers [TS]

  all the ira's up to that point pretty [TS]

  well and pretty concisely you know it's [TS]

  good it's good in the car it's good [TS]

  while I'm writing it's good while I'm [TS]

  cooking and and ya go back and listen to [TS]

  the others but if I just want a good [TS]

  compact greatest hits collection that is [TS]

  a pretty hard will not be say okay well [TS]

  i would actually changes Bowie i would [TS]

  prefer to to the tears but my favorite [TS]

  album as i mentioned earlier actually is [TS]

  and I'm bucking the trend here then so [TS]

  my favorite arm is one of his later ones [TS]

  which is one outside from 1993-94 i [TS]

  think which is his sort of experimental [TS]

  art slightly industrial album that he [TS]

  made with brian eno it is one of the [TS]

  strangest albums he ever made it was it [TS]

  was called one outside because [TS]

  maddeningly was supposed to be the start [TS]

  of a suite of albums that would lead up [TS]

  to the millennium was 95 that's alright [TS]

  because they were going to be one album [TS]

  a year to was going to be cool it was [TS]

  going to be to contamination and they're [TS]

  going to continue and believe the [TS]

  plumbers to end with five inside in the [TS]

  year 2000 or maybe really December 99 or [TS]

  something [TS]

  leading up to the millennium and of [TS]

  course hehe actually never made any of [TS]

  those he just made one so we have this [TS]

  straight album with a one that nobody [TS]

  knows why but i love that album because [TS]

  it is so unusual and so modern so modern [TS]

  even now you listen to it and there are [TS]

  things on there that you like that is [TS]

  what is he doing what is going on here [TS]

  I mean like all of his music sounds [TS]

  timeless but that album for me is I [TS]

  don't know there's something about that [TS]

  is so strange and artistic and a real [TS]

  kind of i don't care if you like this [TS]

  this is where my head is out right now [TS]

  and feeling to the album that i love it [TS]

  i I'm a sucker for that sort of attitude [TS]

  and and i will say i have to listen to [TS]

  it for to a few more times but I i'm [TS]

  liking Blackstar mm well and that's the [TS]

  was the other thing I was going to lead [TS]

  into was black star is ah I mean it's [TS]

  not his most innovative album it's [TS]

  certainly not as strangest album but you [TS]

  know it only has 17 tracks 8tracks know [TS]

  some of them are quite long and the [TS]

  whole album of course I need easy's gift [TS]

  to us he knew he was dying as he made it [TS]

  and the whole album is his statement [TS]

  he's a last testament to the world and [TS]

  his thoughts about his life and his [TS]

  impending death and for that reason [TS]

  alone it takes on a very very special [TS]

  quality [TS]

  yeah I haven't listened to it yet and I [TS]

  don't think i will be able to for a [TS]

  while I haven't actually listen to any [TS]

  David Bowie or watch labyrinth or [TS]

  anything since I heard the news because [TS]

  it just it affected me too deeply I [TS]

  think today after talking about it I'm i [TS]

  will probably go listen to a live insane [TS]

  because i think i'm i'm at the point [TS]

  where that is what I can handle I don't [TS]

  think i could go back and listen to see [TS]

  stars because it is just too much apart [TS]

  of my core and i'm having already degree [TS]

  at that level yet but for me personally [TS]

  I think think about the aladdin same [TS]

  level and it's kind of like you know def [TS]

  con levels eventually i will get the [TS]

  black star point and i will be able to [TS]

  listen to his last album but it's kind [TS]

  of a while [TS]

  the one thing i will say about black [TS]

  stories that it's not more than I mean [TS]

  there are some out there are soft [TS]

  passages in it and it's very reflective [TS]

  obviously but it's not morally you know [TS]

  so don't be worried that it's all sort [TS]

  of like sad songs about all how terrible [TS]

  it is that we're all gonna die [TS]

  it's not you know that's not what it's [TS]

  about it all good to know [TS]

  stringer you heard it yet i have not and [TS]

  are I wanted to put some distance [TS]

  between his death and am i listening to [TS]

  it not so much because I thought it was [TS]

  going I just I wanted to hear it without [TS]

  the baggage [TS]

  show of suffering of him as being get so [TS]

  uh you know it's coming along [TS]

  I and unlike erica i have been listening [TS]

  to my old Bowie uh throughout the week [TS]

  and revisiting old friends [TS]

  I mean the only reason I listen to it at [TS]

  all was because my 14 year olds like you [TS]

  have to listen to this this is amazing [TS]

  and and there was that that moment where [TS]

  I realized my son has listened to a new [TS]

  david bowie album before I did [TS]

  that's so cool and and liked it [TS]

  that is fantastic and I have a slightly [TS]

  macabre but kind of tradition if you [TS]

  like of when artists musicians that I [TS]

  like pass away has been happening with [TS]

  increasing frequency you know as I grow [TS]

  older I listened to their music light on [TS]

  for that day so I spare December 26 and [TS]

  27 listening to nothing but Motorhead i [TS]

  regularly on the anniversary of layne [TS]

  staley is death every year i listen to [TS]

  alice in chains all day and so I have [TS]

  spent the last few days listening to em [TS]

  pretty much and you know nothing but [TS]

  body and remembering again just how [TS]

  amazing he was you know for all we've [TS]

  talked about his cultural impact we've [TS]

  talked about his his enormous legacy and [TS]

  sort of crossing boundaries but at the [TS]

  heart of it all the center of it all if [TS]

  you will is he was a great songwriter [TS]

  and he made amazing music he was a [TS]

  storyteller you guys they'd kept was [TS]

  indeed [TS]

  alright let's draw to a close there [TS]

  thank you very much [TS]

  Erica thank you for being here tonight [TS]

  thank you so much for reading reading [TS]

  this it was that i was i was a little i [TS]

  was a little worried i'm not going to [TS]

  like but i think this is a good a good [TS]

  thing [TS]

  good way to grieve well dr. drank thank [TS]

  you very much for coming on the show all [TS]

  my pleasure and thank you for stepping [TS]

  into host other my pleasure and David [TS]

  were thank you very much for being here [TS]

  tonight [TS]

  this is a good a good conversation good [TS]

  i'm going to thank you you're all very [TS]

  welcome i'll just quickly say to that [TS]

  sinners if you do want more discussion [TS]

  of bowie keep an eye out for this week's [TS]

  unjustly maligned in which I talk to my [TS]

  old friend and Brody mega fan Chris [TS]

  Mitchell about Tim machine which is a [TS]

  very maligned period of bones career but [TS]

  you know i think is actually really good [TS]

  and was absolutely vital to his [TS]

  reinvigoration into his later sort of [TS]

  period of work you'll find that ump dfm [TS]

  published on monday the 18 in the [TS]

  meantime thank you all very much for [TS]

  listening to take care of yourselves and [TS]

  in a week when all of a sudden the stars [TS]

  look very different [TS]

  goodbye [TS]

  and [TS]

  [Music] [TS]