0:00:00[MUSIC]
0:00:21Well, just like last year,
0:00:22we have a cavalcade of special guests for this episode lining up.
0:00:27they will come on in a series of entrances.
0:00:30Last year, we end up going overtime
0:00:32and John Siracusa did not make it onto the show.
0:00:36So we will, he's lined up, he's ready to go.
0:00:39We'll try to get him on.
0:00:40We've also got Ben Thompson and Marco Arment lined up.
0:00:45Right now though, it's just me and Guy English.
0:00:50- Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Ben Arment.
0:00:52He's amazing.
0:00:54- Am I allowed to talk?
0:00:56And my wife Amy Gruber is here to talk about Star Wars The Force Awakens.
0:01:03Now, I don't know what's wrong with people. There are so many people who have already been on like seven podcasts talking about this thing.
0:01:12Have you, Guy? Have you talked about this on a podcast yet?
0:01:15I have not, no.
0:01:17That was my fifth one.
0:01:19I guess.
0:01:20No, I haven't actually.
0:01:22I've wanted to
0:01:24because
0:01:26Turns out I like this movie. I'm so excited to talk about it because you know everybody is so anti spoiler
0:01:32So I've just really been ranting at my family about
0:01:35So I would it is one thing right like don't spoil it on Twitter, but I mean if you're gonna listen to a podcast
0:01:41You know, right. So let's just get it out of the way though that this podcast is going to be incredibly
0:01:49fantastic. So if you haven't seen it yet and you don't want it spoiled, hit pause in your
0:01:55podcast player, go down to your local multiplex, see the movie, and then when you come out,
0:02:02hit unpause.
0:02:03And honestly, get your IQ tested because it's called the Star Wars Christmas Spectacular.
0:02:07And if you're not expecting spoilers, you might be stupid.
0:02:15So first things first, here's my question for both of you.
0:02:18I don't know who wants to answer first, but did you like the movie?
0:02:22No.
0:02:23Amy.
0:02:24No, I did not.
0:02:25Amy, you didn't like the movie.
0:02:27No, I had some real problems.
0:02:31I know.
0:02:32That's right, I have talked to you about it.
0:02:35Yeah, I felt bad.
0:02:36I felt like I made you sad.
0:02:38Yeah, yeah.
0:02:39Like, I was loving it.
0:02:42I was absolutely loving it.
0:02:44And I was like, wow, I'm actually going to go see this again tomorrow.
0:02:47Like I was super, super into it, but I had no idea what was going to happen.
0:02:51And I had given it absolutely no thought what was going to happen.
0:02:55And then when it happened, I got so sad that I cried in the movie theater.
0:02:59Yeah.
0:03:01But how did you like the film?
0:03:04I thought it was a good film.
0:03:06I loved it.
0:03:07Uh, I mean, okay.
0:03:09There's, you know, there's some flaws as a movie, but, uh, as a modern myth retold,
0:03:18I love it and I think it's great.
0:03:20Um, I don't think that that outcome that you're talking about
0:03:23could have gone any other way.
0:03:24I think it had to happen.
0:03:25No, I've been expecting it to happen since 1983, to be honest.
0:03:29You can get angry.
0:03:36It's, you're in a safe space.
0:03:37- So to be clear, let's just get it over with.
0:03:39What we're talking about is when Han Solo died.
0:03:43And it was a turning point for Amy in the movie.
0:03:46(laughing)
0:03:48- Sure, do you guys have drinks?
0:03:49- Have my drinks in the movie?
0:03:52- Maybe don't have a drink, I don't know.
0:03:54- I don't know.
0:03:56You know what, I got day drunk the next day
0:03:59because I woke up and I was like, why am I so sad?
0:04:02And then I remembered why I was so sad and it was terrible.
0:04:06- Oh, that's beautiful.
0:04:08- I was so sad and everybody,
0:04:10like everybody around me was so excited
0:04:13and like Jonas was loving the movie
0:04:14and Jonas is stupid.
0:04:16He turned to me, he's like, "He's not really dead."
0:04:18And I was like, "No, he's so dead."
0:04:20Like he got stabbed and then he fell off a dangerous catwalk
0:04:23and then he got blown up.
0:04:24They like itchy and scratchy killed him.
0:04:26- The planet exploded.
0:04:27- Right, like Wile E. Coyote.
0:04:29Like, yeah, like he couldn't have been more dead.
0:04:32Like they did not leave any avenues open
0:04:35for him to not be dead.
0:04:37- Lightsaber through the chest,
0:04:39fell off a catwalk into what looked like
0:04:42some kind of fiery pit.
0:04:43So it was both a fall and some kind of fiery--
0:04:47- Like a reactor driven by the power of a sun.
0:04:50- Right.
0:04:50- Which then explodes.
0:04:51- Which then exploded.
0:04:52- I don't know.
0:04:53- Why don't they stop with these dangerous catwalks?
0:04:55Why don't they have railings?
0:04:58So many dangerous catwalks.
0:04:58- 'Cause he would still be dead, Amy.
0:05:00He would still be dead.
0:05:01- I don't know, they could patch him up, maybe.
0:05:04Like if he hadn't fallen, I don't know.
0:05:09- I really love your devotion to Han Solo.
0:05:13I think that's awesome.
0:05:15I wanted to be Han Solo growing up
0:05:16and I love the way he went out.
0:05:20- No, no, no, the way he went out was so stupid.
0:05:24That stupid wussy kid, that was horrible.
0:05:27His kid was horrible.
0:05:29Like it made me so mad that his kid was so horrible
0:05:31and wussy and such a big baby.
0:05:33And then he gets to kill Han Solo?
0:05:35Like, that's- and I wasn't even invested in this kid, I didn't care about him!
0:05:39He didn't get to kill Han Solo.
0:05:40He got to- he killed him!
0:05:42Han Solo elected to be killed.
0:05:45That was his choice.
0:05:47Are you kidding me?
0:05:49Kylo Ren is such a weenie, he didn't move off the bridge.
0:05:52Like, he mo- he- he stood his ground.
0:05:54Han walked towards him.
0:05:56So you think that he chose to-
0:06:01Like if he loves this kid so much, he just chose to saddle him with having killed his father?
0:06:06That makes no sense.
0:06:08No, I think he thought... I think that, uh...
0:06:12Leia told him, "If you see our son, bring him home."
0:06:16Uh, so...
0:06:18So now that he's not home and Han Solo's dead.
0:06:20So you think she's happy about that?
0:06:22Well, I think that Han Solo's the kind of guy that he's...
0:06:26I think he's disappointed later for the last time and he's gonna try to make sure that that kid gets home.
0:06:32How? He's dead.
0:06:34I'm so angry. I'm so angry.
0:06:37Well, he didn't know. He didn't know exactly how the conversation was gonna go.
0:06:40But at the end, Dave was like, "Well, you can either cut me down in anger, like me, what, I'm gonna pull out my blaster and try to shoot you in the face?
0:06:48Can't do that.
0:06:49I can run away? Can't do that.
0:06:52Or, you know, we can go with this thing where you kill me and I help you.
0:06:57And then at least there's like a glimmer of light in him still.
0:07:04Like, "I really hate my dad. He's such a jerk, but he totally helped me turn to the dark side."
0:07:10I don't understand.
0:07:12I can't really make a rational argument for it because I've never been there.
0:07:15But...
0:07:16Like I said, even if he turns, like even if then he becomes good.
0:07:20I hope we never see his dumb ass again.
0:07:22I hate him.
0:07:23But even if he turns,
0:07:25he's saddled with having killed his father.
0:07:27Like, how do you go home to your mother and say like,
0:07:29"Hey, I'm done with this dark side crap,
0:07:31"but sorry I killed dad."
0:07:33Like, that's not helping.
0:07:34This isn't helping.
0:07:35Like, it's not helping.
0:07:37- I don't think it does.
0:07:38I don't think it does.
0:07:40- It made no sense.
0:07:41It made absolutely no sense.
0:07:42And who, like, I was loving this movie
0:07:44and I was like, "JJ Abrams, like, you could tell he's a fan
0:07:47"and he totally got it."
0:07:49And I felt like there were a whole bunch of like corny,
0:07:51like Star Wars type jokes where they're corny,
0:07:53but they're funny.
0:07:54And then he killed Han Solo and I turned,
0:07:58I was like, who the fuck does he think he is
0:08:00killing Han Solo?
0:08:01Like you don't get to just get this
0:08:03and then kill my childhood hero.
0:08:05I was so mad.
0:08:07Oh, I'm getting mad again.
0:08:10- It's okay.
0:08:12You can get mad, but.
0:08:14- Well, let's back up though.
0:08:15- I can take it.
0:08:15I can really take it.
0:08:16Okay, yeah.
0:08:17- I'm not mad at you.
0:08:18- I know, I know, but I don't care if you yell at me.
0:08:21It's an interesting decision, though, and I feel like...
0:08:28if there's a spoiler that I knew going into the movie that colored my
0:08:32viewing of it the first time,
0:08:35it's an old spoiler.
0:08:37It's
0:08:37from knowing from when I was a kid in 1983 that in interviews
0:08:43about Return of the Jedi that Harrison Ford
0:08:45publicly said that he had petitioned George Lucas to have Han Solo
0:08:50killed off
0:08:51and that he argued that it would give the movie,
0:08:54I think he called it like gravity or something, weight,
0:08:57but you know, that it would give like a bittersweet feeling
0:09:01to the end of the movie instead of everybody, you know,
0:09:04Kumbaya singing with the Ewoks, that it would be like,
0:09:06yeah, we beat them and we killed the emperor,
0:09:09but Han Solo's dead.
0:09:10And that he, you know, and then it's kind of ugly stuff,
0:09:16but he publicly said that he thinks George Lucas
0:09:20didn't want to do that because it would sell fewer toys that you wouldn't sell a
0:09:22lot of dead Han Solo action figures.
0:09:24Oh, but that's just like hothead young kid just getting fame talk. You know what I mean?
0:09:30Like,
0:09:30no, Harrison Ford is Han Solo. Like there's so much like he, I don't give a
0:09:36fuck. He's like, he'll just say what I don't think though. But I really do think
0:09:41though, like if if Harrison Ford had said to, you know, JJ Abrams and the Disney
0:09:45people than the Lucasfilm people. I'm in it. I, you know, sign me up for three movies. I'll be in all three.
0:09:52I think that they would have, you know, I think they're not stupid. I think they know everybody loves Han Solo.
0:09:58I think they would have put him in all three. I think the fact that he got killed is the fact that it's largely colored.
0:10:04They wrote the story to put that in the story because Harrison Ford said, "All right, I'll do one and you got to give me a lot of money."
0:10:10And I think it's kind of, it's an interesting thing
0:10:14that it's like the actor's decision
0:10:15to color the arc of the whole story.
0:10:18- Amy?
0:10:23- I don't really care what Harrison Ford wants.
0:10:25(laughing)
0:10:27You've taken on this responsibility.
0:10:29Like, and apparently everyone knew that he was going to die.
0:10:32I did not know he was going to die.
0:10:33I remember that like in the 80s that he, you know,
0:10:36but he was all swaggery and like,
0:10:38oh, you know, they should kill me or whatever.
0:10:40and I don't wanna do it anymore.
0:10:41But they all said that and they all came back.
0:10:44I just, I'll never see another J.J. Abrams movie again.
0:10:48He killed Han Solo and I think during the movie I screamed,
0:10:53why didn't they kill Chewbacca?
0:10:55Because I felt like then you could have--
0:10:57- They shot Chewbacca, you cannot shoot,
0:11:00you can't shoot Chewbacca.
0:11:01- So seriously, you're fine with Han Solo,
0:11:04but Chewbacca crosses your line, oh my God.
0:11:06- No, no, no, no, what I'm saying is Chewbacca
0:11:09got shot early.
0:11:11- Well, I wish he would have done that.
0:11:11- And I was like, whoa, that,
0:11:14like the stakes are raised at this point.
0:11:15Like, anything's on the table.
0:11:18- If they would have killed Chewbacca,
0:11:20they could have killed like a character
0:11:23and then he could have had the,
0:11:24hey, I killed a major Star Wars character
0:11:26and gotten that, but not really somebody.
0:11:29I mean, I'd be like, oh, Chewbacca.
0:11:31But I wouldn't be heartbroken.
0:11:33I wouldn't be day drunk the next day.
0:11:35- But I will also say, so maybe--
0:11:39Just to be clear and put this on the public record, we went to see the movie on opening night, which was Thursday night.
0:11:46And we already had tickets for a Saturday matinee. So we didn't go back the next day, but because it was a school day, you know, I thought it was enough that we kept the kid up till 1am watching the movie.
0:11:59But then Saturday afternoon, we had already bought tickets, three tickets. Amy did not attend. She would not see it again.
0:12:08I couldn't watch it again.
0:12:09I couldn't, I really couldn't watch it again.
0:12:11And John was like, come on.
0:12:12And I was like, I'm just too sad, I'm not ready.
0:12:15Like I think maybe in a week or two,
0:12:16I might be able to go see it again.
0:12:18I would like to see it again,
0:12:19but I'm worried that it'll break my heart again.
0:12:21I mean, I couldn't take it.
0:12:23I really couldn't take it.
0:12:24- I love that it affected you that much.
0:12:28- It really did.
0:12:30I was surprised. - No, I really do.
0:12:30I mean, I don't want you to be sad.
0:12:32Obviously, I don't want you to be unhappy,
0:12:34But the fact that it hit you is kind of why they did it.
0:12:38Right?
0:12:39That's the...
0:12:40- Yeah, but I felt like, okay,
0:12:42like this story is kind of a tangent,
0:12:44but when I was little, you know,
0:12:46The Wizard of Oz used to come on once a year
0:12:49and everybody would watch it.
0:12:50Like it'd be a big event because, you know,
0:12:52you couldn't watch, when I was little,
0:12:53you couldn't watch movies over and over again.
0:12:54So you got to see The Wizard of Oz,
0:12:56like once a year at Easter, they would show it on TV
0:12:58and it was a big deal.
0:12:59And I just remember like 10, 15 members of my family
0:13:02were watching it and I'm like four years old and I really liked the bad witch.
0:13:07Oh, there might be a Wizard of Oz spoiler, so if you're sensitive.
0:13:12Oh yeah, man.
0:13:13But when she melts, everybody in my family was like, "Yay!
0:13:20Ding-dong, the witch is dead."
0:13:22And I really loved her and I started to cry and then they all kind of was, they were laughing
0:13:28at me for crying and I was like, "I hate you!"
0:13:31Like my mother still reenacts the scene.
0:13:33Like I was like, I hate you all, you're all dumb, dumb, dumb.
0:13:36And I ran away.
0:13:37Like I was so mad that they were happy that she died.
0:13:39And that's how I felt when Han Solo died.
0:13:42Like people were still, and like after the movie,
0:13:44people were clapping and screaming.
0:13:45And I was like, you assholes, Han Solo's dead.
0:13:48Like I couldn't even enjoy it.
0:13:50And I couldn't believe anyone liked it
0:13:52and that no one else was as sad as I was.
0:13:54Like I really had to like hang my head.
0:13:56I was visibly crying.
0:13:58- She really was.
0:13:59She was very upset.
0:14:00But I would argue what you said, Guy, that it just shows that it was effective as a death that actually meant something.
0:14:12Yeah, so, I mean, there's two things. The things that I like, and then there's things that I think are good.
0:14:19Like, you know, well-rendered art.
0:14:26I can be offended by something that I feel is well-rendered art, or I can be hurt by it emotionally,
0:14:32and I can be incredibly sad that, you know, Hans and Logan are killed.
0:14:39That doesn't mean that I don't think it's an effective piece, you know?
0:14:44No, you're right, but I'm like a Neanderthal, I'm capable of one emotion.
0:14:48No, I love it though, I love it. No, the viscera--
0:14:50The visceralness is, like, exactly why they did it.
0:14:53It's for that reaction.
0:14:55Like it's everybody had, I had that.
0:14:57I was like, I saw it coming a mile away and I was like, Oh God, this is not good.
0:15:02The second time I saw the movie, um, the, uh, the woman sitting next to me
0:15:06screamed and then it was incredibly destroyed for the rest of the movie.
0:15:12Like almost distractingly so.
0:15:14Like,
0:15:14I wish you'd gotten her number.
0:15:16I'd like to go see it with her.
0:15:17I know.
0:15:17Yeah.
0:15:18I was like, um, you remind me of a friend of mine.
0:15:22(laughing)
0:15:25All right, let's take a break.
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0:17:45Let's start at the beginning. Here's the thing. I went in and I couldn't shut up about it.
0:17:51Well, this was the first Star Wars movie that wasn't from 20th Century Fox.
0:17:58Yeah, let's talk about the actual movie.
0:17:59Yeah, right. Instead of the one part, let's talk about the parts I actually enjoyed.
0:18:03Because I did enjoy parts of it.
0:18:04I, but I think like a lot of people...
0:18:07I feel like they should have just thrown a bunch of money at them so we can get the fanfare.
0:18:10Yeah, I feel like...
0:18:12Just use the fanfare.
0:18:14I don't know how they could have done it if they could have just had the sound,
0:18:17but not the, you know, obviously it wouldn't say 20th Century Fox.
0:18:21But when I hear any other 20th Century Fox movie,
0:18:25when I hear their fanfare, I immediately think this is going to be
0:18:31a Star Wars movie. I hear the Star Wars coming in after the 20th Century Fox.
0:18:36And so my question going into the movie is, what are they going to do?
0:18:40are they going to put the Disney Magic Kingdom castle thing up?
0:18:44And I don't know. They did nothing. They did. And what they ended up doing is they put
0:18:48nothing at the beginning of the movie and it just started. You know that so the fanfare, the 20th
0:18:52century Fox fanfare came back because Lucas wanted it in 77. They had retired it and he
0:18:59bought it back because he liked it so much. Right, and that Star Wars was supposed to sort of harken
0:19:05back to like the golden era of, you know, serial events.
0:19:09So he resurrected it and it's been more or less stuck ever since.
0:19:13And it just screamed Star Wars to me.
0:19:16Like that, like when you hear that, that sound and that fanfare and you hear
0:19:22that, you see the, the visual, you know, I'm sitting down for a Star Wars movie.
0:19:28Even the bad ones, even the bad ones had it, you know?
0:19:31I even... I heard a story once that, and I don't know if it's true, it could be apocryphal,
0:19:38but I heard that John Williams wrote the opening notes of Star Wars, knowing that they would
0:19:45come after that fanfare. And in fact, didn't John Williams re-record the fanfare so they'd
0:19:50have a high fidelity version of it? It was like meant to come after, you know, first
0:19:55the fanfare, then a pause, then the Star Wars thing kicks in.
0:20:00I don't know, I would totally believe that.
0:20:02It's just so perfect.
0:20:03And I'm like, I'm not sure now if it's...
0:20:07Like is it perfect because I loved it so much?
0:20:10Or you know, is it actually arranged in such a way that just makes it perfect?
0:20:16I don't know.
0:20:17Either way, silence.
0:20:18That was a little jarring, I guess.
0:20:23But you know, whatever.
0:20:25Something new.
0:20:26I guess it's better than having the Disney castle.
0:20:28That would have really broken my heart.
0:20:31And I like Disney.
0:20:32I like the Disney Company.
0:20:34We go to Disney World, I don't know, seven or eight times a year.
0:20:39But it would have been wrong for Star Wars.
0:20:41I was really shocked.
0:20:42I thought there was no way Disney was going to pass up the chance not to throw that castle
0:20:48up there and start making more associations with Disney and Star Wars.
0:20:52I was really surprised.
0:20:53I think Disney is a very, very smart company.
0:20:56I agree.
0:20:57I agree.
0:20:58about their branding and they let him kill Han Solo.
0:21:02I think, I mean they've let all the Marvel stuff roll with that Marvel, you know like the comic book
0:21:07like the Marvel logo is like comic book pages flipping right and then it just turns into Marvel.
0:21:14I don't know, maybe JJ didn't have a great idea but either way I think they were happy to be like
0:21:21okay like for Marvel we do the Marvel thing and for you guys whatever you want like if you don't
0:21:27want the castle, fine. Right, and we kind of thought that they might Star Wars theme it, like
0:21:32the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, they like kind of theme it to the movie and we thought they
0:21:38might do something corny like that. Yeah, and in Tron they made it sort of Tron, you know, made
0:21:43like a Tron style castle. But yeah, but this ain't Tron, right? I think what I would have,
0:21:50What I would have pushed for would be to... I guess you couldn't get Fox to actually use the real Fox
0:21:59music. I don't think there's any way that... Even like you said, like throwing money at it. I don't
0:22:03know. There's something. But if they could have just made a new fanfare that was very similar
0:22:07in some way that strikes the same notes and then play that over the Lucasfilm Limited title card.
0:22:14Yeah, yeah, I would, yeah. I'd like to think that, I don't know who's in charge of Fox, I'd like to think that every now and then you can be like, look, this is a cultural imperative. Like, it's not about our companies. Can we just use the music?
0:22:30That's so Canadian of you guys. To think, "Hey, let's all get along and let's just do a nice thing." I don't think it happens that way.
0:22:40Well, why not?
0:22:41I know, I agree with you.
0:22:42I agree with you.
0:22:43I agree with you.
0:22:44Yeah, so, yeah.
0:22:45Anyway, so, a long time ago...
0:22:49In a galaxy far, far away.
0:22:52That was so exciting.
0:22:53It was exciting.
0:22:54It was just so exciting.
0:22:55But I remember being excited when I saw it for the prequels, too.
0:22:58I will say, I've said this many times before, I'm not a prequel hater.
0:23:02I mean, I don't think they were garbage.
0:23:05But I do remember very much coming out of the first one and being like, wow, that was...
0:23:11I feel weird, you know?
0:23:13I feel like I got molested.
0:23:15(Bridget laughs)
0:23:17- Yeah.
0:23:17I kept going back, there was a movie center
0:23:21like 100 meters from my place at the time.
0:23:25And I just kept going back to being molested over and over.
0:23:31I think I'm gonna, maybe this time I'm gonna like it.
0:23:35That's not good.
0:23:39It's like Star Wars.
0:23:41Yeah, it was so half-assed. It was like, it's the people I like, and I'm excited, but it's so, so bad.
0:23:49Yeah, there's some design that I like, and there are things that I could actually say nice about the prequels.
0:23:56See, I've like, kind of wiped them from my memory. And all I remember is it was like watching C-SPAN.
0:24:02Like, it was just all this political rhetoric. That's all I recall. That and Jar Jar. All I remember.
0:24:09Alright, so this one starts out and I will say too, but this one, you know what, immediately, immediately bang right off the bat, Luke Skywalker has vanished. Right? What a great line.
0:24:26They're at the stakes.
0:24:27Not just trade negotiation bullshit.
0:24:30It's like Luke Skywalker, the guy that you love, is not here anymore.
0:24:35Like, so...
0:24:37Clearly a problem, right? Like our hero is gone.
0:24:42I was excited because I hate Luke Skywalker.
0:24:46Well, you know, yeah, yeah.
0:24:49You know what I mean? He's like the hero of Jedi.
0:24:51He's the guy that, yeah.
0:24:53I've got a lot of strongly held, unpopular, uninformed opinions about Star Wars, so I'm like the perfect guest for this show.
0:25:00No, you're very informed, and strong opinions is the way to go.
0:25:05And Luke Skywalker is kind of a whiny jerk.
0:25:09Yeah, I never liked him in the originals, I've just never cared for him.
0:25:15And ever since I've seen that picture of him, there was a tabloid picture of him,
0:25:19and he was outside a gas station
0:25:21and he was digging through the public ashtray
0:25:24and he picked up a butt and smoked it.
0:25:27And I just thought, what are you doing, Markel?
0:25:29- That wasn't Luke Skywalker.
0:25:31That was-- - Well, in my mind,
0:25:34Luke Skywalker.
0:25:35But then he got into like a fancy BMW.
0:25:37Like, I don't understand.
0:25:40Like, I just think maybe his wife wanted him
0:25:42to quit smoking.
0:25:43I don't know.
0:25:44You're Luke Skywalker buying a pack of cigarettes.
0:25:46It's really, really colored my whole view of Skywalker.
0:25:49- All right, I was confused in the opening scene
0:25:52where you've got Poe Dameron,
0:25:55and he very, you know, was easily established
0:25:58by the opening text that Prince, or General Leia,
0:26:01I should say, sent her most daring pilot on a mission.
0:26:03It was pretty clear, okay, this guy's the pilot.
0:26:06He's, you know, he clearly comes across as a--
0:26:10- The scroll nailed it.
0:26:10Like, you knew immediately what was going on.
0:26:12- But then they said that he went to see, like,
0:26:14an old ally, and you don't know who it is, and then it's played by Max von Seidel.
0:26:22I had to look it up, because I don't even know that his name was mentioned in the movie,
0:26:25but his character's name is Lor San Tekka.
0:26:27Yeah, they should have just called him Max von Seidel.
0:26:31Like, forget it.
0:26:32I was very...
0:26:33It's a Star Wars enough name.
0:26:35I'm intimately familiar with all of the actual movies, and I just expected that it was going
0:26:40be somebody like Lando or somebody who we knew and I'm like all right he's an old guy but I don't
0:26:48recognize him is and I really wasted a lot of that scene trying to figure out who he was because me
0:26:54too it seemed like next scene when he meets uh Kylo Ren well yeah but well it would just talk about
0:27:01that whole opening scene I really felt like we were supposed to know who he was because of they
0:27:07they kind of set it up like we were supposed to, and we didn't.
0:27:11And I really did. It was like one of the first things I did when I got home is I looked it up,
0:27:16and I'm like, "Okay, I wasn't supposed to know who that guy was, but why did they make me feel stupid?"
0:27:19Right, because I spent a lot of time thinking about it, and I was like, "Oh, wow, I don't have
0:27:23enough Star Wars knowledge to know who this guy is, and you were two seats away from me,
0:27:27so I couldn't ask you."
0:27:30I don't know if they were trying to make you feel stupid so much as they were just trying to roll
0:27:34into a story and, like, you know, like, so the scroll for episode four just drops you in the deep end, right?
0:27:44And I think this one does the same thing.
0:27:46Does the same thing.
0:27:47And so they say it's an old family friend, but I mean, it's been what, 32 years since the last Star Wars movie.
0:27:54I did want it to be Land Rover.
0:27:55Plenty of time to have like an old family friend that we didn't know.
0:27:59But I did, I expected him to be like an organa or like a Mon Mothma.
0:28:05I don't know.
0:28:07Somebody who we were supposed to know.
0:28:10Somebody, yeah.
0:28:11You could say, "Oh my god!"
0:28:11Like Wedge Antilles.
0:28:12Wedge Antilles is an old man.
0:28:14Yeah.
0:28:14Has like the, you know, something.
0:28:17But we don't, whatever.
0:28:19Whoever he is.
0:28:20He's the exorcist is who he is.
0:28:22Have you heard this story?
0:28:25That...
0:28:27I totally expected Wedge to be in the movie, because Wedge is sort of an interesting trivia
0:28:32question because if you ask, you know, who are the characters who were in all three of
0:28:36the, you know, the first Star Wars trilogy, it's, you know, there's Han and Luke and Leia
0:28:42and the droids and Darth Vader, and all these ones that are very, you know, the all these
0:28:47iconic characters, but the one that's easily overlooked would be Wedge Antilles. And I
0:28:51thought, well, of course, they're going to bring him back. And somebody told me, I forget
0:28:54I was talking to but somebody said that they approached the actors still around they approached him and he was like nope can't be bothered
0:28:59Or like maybe he held out for more money or something but that was
0:29:05I think that was short-sighted because he probably could have made a pretty penny on that. Hey
0:29:11it also
0:29:13so
0:29:14He's the guy that
0:29:16Like he made the death star run
0:29:18I think he actually dropped the... he fired the missiles. It's been a while since I've seen that one.
0:29:24But he missed. Oh, I think he's the guy that he shot and they impacted on the surface.
0:29:30No, no. That was a Y-wing pilot, I think. Or no, no, it wasn't X-wing, but it was like the squadron captain.
0:29:38Oh, Wedge. Oh, here's the thing. Wedge is Luke's wingman going on the trench run.
0:29:42Right. And then he takes damage and says...
0:29:44He basically absorbs a bunch of damage and then gets out of there, you know?
0:29:48In Empire, he is actually the one that topples the AT-AT.
0:29:53Right. He's the snowspeeder pilot who...
0:29:58Whose cable works, and he nails it.
0:30:03And he's the one that, on the third Death Star run in Return of the Jedi,
0:30:08he blows up the... I don't know how to describe it.
0:30:12but there's a conduit on the right-hand side that he nukes in order so that the
0:30:17Falcon can blow up the main bit, you know?
0:30:20But he's right there, right to the end.
0:30:23He's been in every major battle that we've seen, and he kicks him a major ass.
0:30:26Yeah, so I had kind of thought at the bottom of the crawl, where it said that
0:30:31prince-- or generally, I'm going to keep saying the first half of the word
0:30:34princess every time I talk about this.
0:30:35That's okay. You're like C-3PO.
0:30:37Exactly.
0:30:41I thought maybe that was who her most daring pilot was.
0:30:44Or I also was sort of hoping maybe it was Han Solo too.
0:30:47Until we figured out that it was Poe Dameron.
0:30:51But I figured, wouldn't it be cool if it was Wedge Antilles?
0:30:54Ends up Wedge Antilles, not in the movie.
0:30:57- Holding out for more money.
0:30:59So we're still at the crawl.
0:31:01- Well, or crawl.
0:31:02- This is the show, this show's gonna be full.
0:31:04- We're half an hour in.
0:31:05- I mean, I have stuff to do today.
0:31:07- Crawl and how about the opening,
0:31:09and the whole opening scene where it's just sort of--
0:31:11OK, you know what? Let's do this.
0:31:13Loved it.
0:31:15We get a shot of, I have to assume it's a moon.
0:31:19There's two moons orbiting Jakku.
0:31:22We get a star destroyer coming in in silhouette.
0:31:29Which is nice, because if they just played out the same episode 4 shot, I think that would have been overdone.
0:31:36But the notion that you run the scroll and then you pan down onto planets and the Star Destroyer is like that Star Wars lore.
0:31:43That's how you have to start a movie.
0:31:45And then we see stormtroopers, like assault ships, kind of drop out of the Star Destroyer.
0:31:55Which is almost beat for beat identical to what's happening in Star Wars, The New Hope.
0:32:05I hate calling it a new hope.
0:32:06Yeah, I don't like calling it a new hope.
0:32:08On this show, we call it Star Wars.
0:32:10Yes.
0:32:10OK, so let's just establish that.
0:32:12So in Star Wars, that's the same thing, right?
0:32:16There's a crazy stormtrooper assault, and they look badass.
0:32:20Some of them get killed, but they just barge in anyway,
0:32:23and they're unstoppable.
0:32:26And then after they've kind of cleaned up the scene, in Star Wars,
0:32:32Vader walks in and in this one we have a shuttle deliver K
0:32:37yeah I I didn't pick up on it it took me a while watching it the first time
0:32:44before I picked up on the fact that the whole movie was more or less a remake of
0:32:49Star Wars and in either very very similar or like similar but like turned
0:32:55like heads to tails some people have turned that into a negative and I I
0:33:00I don't like that notion. This is a myth. It's a modern myth.
0:33:04Stop worrying about reusing plot points.
0:33:08They set out and they retold the thing.
0:33:12They retold the story with a few different characters and a few things
0:33:16mixed up, but they've reset the ground
0:33:20so that it's fertile for the next few movies. You know what I mean?
0:33:24Right. I didn't have any problem with that. I thought, because it's kind of, I mean,
0:33:28Maybe nerds don't want to admit it, but it's kind of like a soap opera.
0:33:31Like, you know, it has all this and, you know, they recycle plots all the time and somebody's gonna be somebody's daughter or father or and it's just the way it's gonna go.
0:33:40Yeah, I had more problem with Return of the Jedi when they're like, okay, really like another Death Star?
0:33:46We kind of did that.
0:33:49Right, right.
0:33:51Jedi is weaker.
0:33:52This one, this one at least is like, okay, now we're gonna do the exact same thing.
0:33:55like don't and maybe I'm older so well I think the other thing that if we're
0:34:01being honest with each other and I think I I didn't predict that I and I did go
0:34:05in blind I did not predict that they would just really remake Star Wars yeah
0:34:09but I think it's kind of overall I think it's kind of genius because they did it
0:34:14without actually remaking it now compare and contrast with what they did with
0:34:19Star Trek where they would and again JJ Abrams they rebooted it but they've
0:34:24recast all of these iconic characters. You know, there's a new Captain Kirk, there's a new guy playing Spock, and they, you know,
0:34:31use the time travel trick to get Leonard Nimoy in to sort of tie it together.
0:34:36But in a way it sort of feels like a cheat because it feels like there's never gonna be a William Shatner Kirk in this universe.
0:34:42And I'm so glad that they didn't go that way, that they said, you know, we're not remaking episode four, five, six.
0:34:48Yeah, you know and Han Solo is still Harrison Ford and Luke Skywalker still Mark Hamill and Leia is still Carrie Fisher
0:34:55But yet we're remaking and I feel like the thing we have to be honest with each other with everybody about is that
0:35:02Though those movies especially the first one Star Wars
0:35:06It it's dated in a certain way, you know, and it's you know to tie to get with my other
0:35:13you know favorite movie series with the James Bond movies as much as I love the Sean Connery Bond movies
0:35:19There's no way that you could make one of those today
0:35:21with that pacing and that level of like production quality
0:35:27like they look old and and the first Star Wars movie looks old and it feels old with the way that it's paced and
0:35:33So I feel like telling that same story but doing it with up-to-date production values and pacing
0:35:42is sort of necessary to take the franchise out of cold storage?
0:35:48I think so. I think there's so much of this movie that is
0:35:52as much, like, sort of on the meta level as it is actually on the level of telling a story.
0:36:01Like, certainly all the mirroring of the characters and the plot points.
0:36:09Yeah, I didn't think it felt like used up. I thought it felt like fresh and like familiar.
0:36:15Yeah.
0:36:16I really like, I don't know, I really liked it. I had no issue with that. I was surprised that so
0:36:19many people did have an issue with that. Yeah, I think they're off-case.
0:36:26Yeah, exactly. I think people that could complain.
0:36:28All right. Here's a broad topic here. And from the opening scene, I thought Kylo Ren was an
0:36:35Excellent villain and I like the way he talked I liked the words that he chose like he was you know very few words
0:36:41But he chose them very well. I love this new trick that he introduced where he stopped a laser bolt in midair. I
0:36:48Thought that was I that had never occurred to me. I thought it was an excellent thing
0:36:53but in the as
0:36:56The movie goes on so we're introduced to him and he feels like a total legit
0:37:01Badass exactly like Darth Vader in the first movie when he first enters
0:37:04but then as the movie goes on to me once he took his helmet off I
0:37:08One of those guys. I really hate to say it, but I feel like when he took his helmet off
0:37:15it was it reminds me of vaguely of
0:37:17What was his name dark helmet in the Spaceballs? Yes, don't kill me
0:37:23Like yeah
0:37:27helmet list Kylo Ren is
0:37:30so whiny and he's ineffective and
0:37:33It really does correspond to the moment when he takes the helmet off like he that when he started having the tantrums
0:37:41No, he'd been having tantrums before did he have yeah, that's right
0:37:45He had his first tantrum and I think his first tantrum was when I was like, this is this is a silly person
0:37:50I agree. Yeah, I
0:37:52Think he was I think he was weak and pathetic before he took the helmet off
0:37:56I think so my read was the
0:38:00He'd captured Rey. Rey was in restraints.
0:38:05And then she sort of questions him by saying, like,
0:38:10"I forget what it was. You tried to kill me? Well, that's what happens when I'm chased by a monster in a mask."
0:38:16And he tries to take the mask off. And I think he thinks it's a power move.
0:38:22And it totally backfires. And the fact that he thinks it's a power move
0:38:27is where I think it turns awesome.
0:38:32- Like Darth Vader gets mad and he kills somebody.
0:38:36You know what I mean?
0:38:37Like he's frustrated, he's gonna choke somebody
0:38:39and this guy is just like breaking his lightsaber
0:38:41over his knee or...
0:38:42- Darth Vader keeps his shit together.
0:38:44- Right, right.
0:38:45- I'm sorry, like he really does.
0:38:46All of the Sith guys that we've seen,
0:38:48even in the shitty movies, keep their shit together.
0:38:50They're like, "If you fuck up, I will kill you.
0:38:54"Like make no mistake about it."
0:38:56But if you do what I tell you to do
0:39:01and things don't go well, I'm fine.
0:39:04I'm gonna be very, very angry, but it's not your fault,
0:39:08and I'm gonna move on. (Bridget laughs)
0:39:09This guy is like, "I'm gonna beat up a computer."
0:39:12- Yeah, right. (laughs)
0:39:13- Like, really?
0:39:14This is your move?
0:39:15- I was probably right around Jonas's age,
0:39:19maybe like eight, nine, 10 years old,
0:39:21and my family had played a game of Monopoly,
0:39:25which if, you know, I think everybody's familiar with,
0:39:27takes a long time.
0:39:30And you know, well over an hour into it,
0:39:32and I was the first one to go bankrupt.
0:39:37And I thought for sure that I was gonna win
0:39:39because I just thought, you know,
0:39:41my family is full of simpletons.
0:39:44(laughing)
0:39:45- It's good that you're sharing with us.
0:39:47- Well, as a 10 year old, you know,
0:39:49I really thought that I, you know--
0:39:50- You were the smartest person in the room.
0:39:52- Yeah, and I was gonna, you know,
0:39:53wheel and deal and Donald Trump my way into victory, you know, is a real estate magnet.
0:39:57And I went bankrupt, magnate. And I lost, I was the first one out and I went into a
0:40:06fit. And we were playing in the kitchen on the kitchen table and I went into the living
0:40:12room which is next door, picked a pillow off the sofa and threw it into the kitchen and
0:40:17it was, it could not have been worse. It just swept the board. It swept everything off the
0:40:23board, everybody's money. It just slid across the board, like one of the Dukes of Hazzard sliding
0:40:28across the General Lee. And I instantly knew, wow, that was a horrible mistake. I just ruined the
0:40:36game for everybody. Like it was completely irrecoverable. And everybody was like, well,
0:40:40I guess the game's over. Nice job, John. But I was 10 years old, you know what I mean? And I
0:40:44learned a lesson from it. I was like, wow, you know, you gotta, you know,
0:40:48You never do stuff like that. I mean that. I know that sounds like because I'm like never serious,
0:40:53but you don't. You're very even-tempered.
0:40:55I just feel like it's, I mean, it's obviously a deliberate choice. It's not like they made a
0:41:01mistake, but it's a curious choice that they've made the main bad guy somebody who has the
0:41:07emotional temperament of a 10 or 11 year old. Well, I think it needs to in order to
0:41:13disassociate him with Darth Vader.
0:41:15But it makes him so unlikable in a way that you have no respect for him.
0:41:21Like Darth Vader was not likable.
0:41:22Like he was likable as a badass, but you know, not really likable.
0:41:26But this guy, that's why it made me so mad when he killed Han Solo.
0:41:30Like I'm going to stop bringing that up.
0:41:31But because he was just so unlikable, like he was not worthy of killing Han Solo.
0:41:37That's what really got to me.
0:41:39I think that's the point.
0:41:40I know.
0:41:41I know that's the point.
0:41:42But I just-- I'm not going to talk about it anymore.
0:41:45Well, forget the Han Solo bit.
0:41:48I think that--
0:41:51I think that Darth Vader established an archetype
0:41:54for villains that we've seen played over since its introduction.
0:42:00And this is like--
0:42:02they can't do the same thing.
0:42:03What are you going to do?
0:42:04Be a better Vader than Vader?
0:42:06Can't do that.
0:42:07So they need a petulant child.
0:42:10I mean, that seems like a pretty...
0:42:12Like a petulant, overly-entitled, uh...
0:42:16Vately misogynistic, like, certainly self-entitled...
0:42:21Well, they nailed it.
0:42:22Child. Yeah, to be, you know, to be the villain.
0:42:26'Cause they've already got the cold-calculating guy.
0:42:29I don't know if Vader's cold and calculating, but he's seething.
0:42:33They've got the seething thing done.
0:42:37You can't seethe better than Vader.
0:42:39Like, his breathing is seething.
0:42:42You literally can't get more than that, you know?
0:42:45So they've got this guy who's a whiny wannabe.
0:42:50And it makes sense in the universe, and it makes sense as a villain, and it's pathetic.
0:42:57And I like that you don't need to respect--
0:43:04I like that he doesn't deserve to respect.
0:43:07respect. And that's his problem is that he feels that he does, but it's immediately
0:43:14apparent to anybody that watches him that like, no, you don't. You're no Vader kid.
0:43:19Right. Well, and maybe it's an evolution because I hated Anakin too in the other
0:43:27ones. So, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe killing Han Solo gives him the, you
0:43:33"You know what? I'm a badass. I killed my dad. I killed Han Solo."
0:43:36So maybe, you know, maybe it's an evolution. I don't know.
0:43:39I think it-- I think that kind of maybe--
0:43:40It's gotta be--
0:43:41I don't know if it backfired in terms of turning him to the light side, but, uh...
0:43:44He was certainly not thinking with his head when he engaged, uh...
0:43:49Rey and Finn in that lightsaber battle.
0:43:52Oh, definitely. Definitely.
0:43:55Anyway, so we're jumping all over the place.
0:43:57Yeah, but that-- but I feel like--
0:43:59It's just a kind of conversa-- I mean--
0:44:00Yeah.
0:44:01The other thing they do is in the opening scene we are instantly
0:44:05and again it parallels the first movie where Princess Leia
0:44:08you know put the plans in R2D2 and we've got a new R2D2
0:44:13BB8 and it's you know it could not be more
0:44:17I almost feel like I should have realized they're remaking the movie I just thought
0:44:20oh it's just one note
0:44:22you know similar their secret plans and they're giving them to this astromech
0:44:25droid
0:44:26who beeps and emotes instead of talking
0:44:29like a nod in the beginning like it just felt like a nod to the first movie right then i love bb-8 and
0:44:36i feel like and i know you know that was a character that they they let out in the trailers
0:44:42and they started making toys and stuff like that for it so you got the gist of you know like the
0:44:46way that he sort of built like a snowman um but i really liked him in the movie and i feel like
0:44:52that one of the things that did to me was at just a home run in the movie is the bb-8 character
0:44:58What do you guys think?
0:45:02I don't think he could have done better.
0:45:08A droid like 3PO would be a failure.
0:45:13And you can't have another R2 unit.
0:45:16We've seen that.
0:45:17We had R4 in the prequels.
0:45:21Who nobody cared about.
0:45:23Not even Obi-Wan Kenobi.
0:45:28Nobody cared about that guy.
0:45:30So yeah, no, I loved it. I thought that they managed to make a real, genuine new character droid that we actually liked.
0:45:42And that's no small feat, right?
0:45:45I think he was such an R2D2. I mean, he's like plucky and cute.
0:45:50He's cuter and he's more mobile and, you know, like he hides behind people's legs.
0:45:56R2D2 expresses his personality in terms of beeps and boops.
0:46:00And BB-8 does it with like...
0:46:04Yeah, he's kind of like a playful puppy.
0:46:08You know, he had like you said, like hiding between the legs.
0:46:11Yeah, he's more like a pet than R2D2.
0:46:15I had never got the sense that R2D2 was a pet.
0:46:17I always got the sense that R2, even in the first movie where we see him,
0:46:21or even if you go back to the prequels,
0:46:23Even in the prequels, when, you know, chronologically we first see R2, he already feels like he's an old droid.
0:46:31And he sort of acts like an old droid. Whereas BB-8 is... feels like almost childish.
0:46:37Yes. He's got like a sense of wonder about him.
0:46:41One of the biggest laughs in the movie, and I really do love it, I think it's so great, is where...
0:46:49again we're skipping around, but when they're on the Falcon and Rey is underneath trying
0:46:54to fix the ship and Finn is explaining that I'm not really part of the Resistance, but
0:47:01there's no way we're getting out of this unless you tell us where.
0:47:03He's coming clean to the droid.
0:47:06Right, and he gives him a thumbs up and BB-8 has like a butane lighter and uses it to give
0:47:14a thumbs up.
0:47:15I was ready for it the second time we saw it.
0:47:17And I really gauged the crowd.
0:47:19The crowd absolutely lost it at that point.
0:47:22And I feel like that was really the point where everybody in the theater was like,
0:47:27"Alright, I am fully on board with this movie."
0:47:29Yeah. I think so too. That's certainly the biggest laugh.
0:47:33What about in broad strokes?
0:47:41I almost feel like, just to jump to a problem with the movie, is that in the first Star Wars,
0:47:49the famous opening shot where you see the the rebel ship, small rebel ship, going away,
0:47:55and then the giant, wow, it just keeps going and going and going, giant star destroyer. In addition
0:48:02to just being a beautiful shot and a tremendously effective special effect, it also instantly
0:48:08establishes the power dynamics between the rebellion and the empire. That the
0:48:13rebels are small and really up against it and the Empire is huge and the
0:48:19overwhelming military strength in the galaxy. The shot establishes that. Whereas
0:48:26in this movie it's very unclear to me, even after having watched it twice and
0:48:32you know read the internet and unspoiled myself, it's very unclear to me like how
0:48:37strong the First Order is, and how strong the New Republic and this Resistance are.
0:48:46Yeah, I don't think you can tell. They blood out -- so the silhouette of the Star
0:48:57Store blots out a moon rather than the sun. You'd think that would be more of a -- you
0:49:06Like if you've got a planet and a sun and a star story just kind of comes in between them.
0:49:11I don't think... So the opening crawl did not explain the political situation very well,
0:49:22and none of the expository dialogue really did.
0:49:26If anything, I think that might have been a reaction to...
0:49:35you know, the prequels where all we did is spend time talking about, like,
0:49:42who's voting on what from where and like, oh, wait, that senator needs some farm subsidies
0:49:48so that we can have these stormtroopers, whatever it was.
0:49:53I think maybe that it got glossed over a little bit much.
0:49:56I do know that there have been scenes cut
0:50:01that deal a little bit more with the political side of things.
0:50:03Yeah, I've heard that too, including like the characters who got blown up on the balcony.
0:50:09Yeah, we see a woman, like the close up of the woman's face, she actually apparently gets dispatched by Leia
0:50:17to go and talk to the Galactic Senate about ginning up more support for the Resistance.
0:50:25But I think it all got cut, and probably rightfully so. It was a long enough movie with enough going on
0:50:32that I don't think we needed to know it.
0:50:34- Right, let's not listen from those prequels.
0:50:36I mean, if I would have heard the words Galactic Senate,
0:50:39I would have gotten up and left.
0:50:40- Yeah, yeah.
0:50:42Well, you would have missed Han Solo getting killed.
0:50:44- Yeah, and you know what, then I'd be happy.
0:50:46(laughing)
0:50:49- One of the things that I thought was pretty clever
0:50:51and I liked it is even though it's 30 years later,
0:50:56and I like the basic idea that what happened
0:51:01and Return of the Jedi did not completely shut down the Empire instantly.
0:51:05The Empire truly was an Empire, and losing another Death Star and the Super Star Destroyer
0:51:16and losing the Emperor and Vader obviously set them back tremendously, but it left them
0:51:21with something that they could still have.
0:51:23They still had this massive Starfleet.
0:51:25I love that basically.
0:51:27Just makes sense. There's no way you can...
0:51:29That battle did not...
0:51:31There's no way that battle could cripple something as large as a galactic empire.
0:51:35I really like the way that they flipped this, though.
0:51:38And they made...
0:51:40It was unclear how old Darth Vader was in the first movies,
0:51:43but you knew... Obi-Wan said that he was...
0:51:46He told Luke that he had fought with him and that he was a star pilot.
0:51:51So you knew he had to be at least like 40 or 50.
0:51:53And that he was more or less 20 years, maybe, or so younger than Obi-Wan.
0:51:59But Tarkin was clearly an old guy.
0:52:02Wait, from those first movies I did not think he was 20 years younger than Obi-Wan.
0:52:07Oh, you didn't? How old did you think he was? Because he said that he trained him.
0:52:09I thought he was the same age.
0:52:10Oh, see, I thought that he was a little younger because he told Luke that it was an apprentice of mine.
0:52:15Well, okay, so in A New Hope, he says that he fought with him.
0:52:20Right.
0:52:21Right. So that established my relationship with the thing.
0:52:24And then he talks about Darth Vader having trained him.
0:52:28Yeah, but then he even addresses him as old man.
0:52:30Your powers are weak, old man.
0:52:31Yeah, OK.
0:52:35I still didn't get the 20 years, but OK. Yeah.
0:52:38Yeah, I just figured... Well, yeah, yeah.
0:52:40Yeah, I don't think you...
0:52:43I think you have to have 20 years on somebody to call them an old man.
0:52:46Right. You can't call somebody who's roughly your age an old man.
0:52:49Although I'm gonna start.
0:52:50Old man guy English.
0:52:55I thought it was a really interesting twist that especially that the
0:53:03hux character is like, a young boy, I wanted to punch that guy. And I feel
0:53:10like you wanted to want it. They wanted you to want to punch him. Like when he
0:53:14He was giving his little Nazi speech to all the troops, and I was just like, "Man, I would
0:53:20like to see you get punched."
0:53:21Yeah, you want to grab a Captain America shield and just hit that guy in the face with it.
0:53:26He's awful.
0:53:27Is that where you're going with the Tarkin thing?
0:53:29Well, yeah.
0:53:30Because he really—
0:53:31To me, it's one of those aspects of the movie where, yes, the whole thing parallels the
0:53:34first Star Wars movie.
0:53:36Hux is clearly the Tarkin stand-in, and I really like the twist that instead of being
0:53:43an old guy he is young I mean I don't know it looks like to me like he's only
0:53:48around 30 years old yeah he's young he's full of piss and vinegar and he's he's
0:53:52on a mission right and it's like inherently like what was the name of the
0:53:57actor who played Tarkin Peter what who yeah no yeah that's okay somebody will
0:54:07correct us if we're wrong. That guy just instantly commanded respect, because it's just who he is,
0:54:16right? You just had to respect him. Whereas Hux is like, because he's like a young punk,
0:54:22you had to know that. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Peter Cushing was the name.
0:54:25Peter Cushing. Sorry. Yeah. Peter O'Toole. Yeah. It's funny. I was looking it up on my phone.
0:54:31But he commanded respect just because he was just this old British actor who you know as
0:54:37I don't even know what he was in, but you just know you've seen him in things.
0:54:40His face is like so... it's like Max Fonsetto.
0:54:43Exactly.
0:54:44He... it's... yeah.
0:54:46So I thought that was pretty brilliant. I really liked it.
0:54:48And I like that the guy is a young punk.
0:54:53Yeah, definitely.
0:54:55Well, his arrogance and vigor really got sold because he was a young guy, I think.
0:55:03It's like he's too young and dumb to have actually thought about what the hell he's saying.
0:55:10And so he can deliver these kind of speeches with complete conviction, as opposed to having a sense of cynicism.
0:55:23Like, you know, when you hear the Vader, the Emperor deliver his talks, there's always a cynicism behind it.
0:55:33I think this guy is just a real believer, you know? He's like a born-again fascist, imperial, lacky leader kind of guy.
0:55:44Born-again fascist is such a great phrase.
0:55:48He really is! He's like, he's...
0:55:50Who does that?
0:55:52Well, let's not get into politics.
0:55:57You could just see that he'd be voting for Trump, though.
0:56:00Yeah, yeah.
0:56:01All right, let's take another break.
0:56:03I was trying not to go there.
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0:58:49Wealthfront. Wealthfront.com/the-talk-show is where you go to sign up. All right, we haven't
0:58:55really spoken about Rey yet.
0:58:57Amy?
0:59:01I love Rey. I mean, I think how could you not like Rey? I loved
0:59:08her. She was so exciting. And I that was another thing. Well,
0:59:15what were we gonna say?
0:59:19I don't remember because you interrupted me.
0:59:21I was directing you to speak in the microphone.
0:59:24because your big dumb face is there.
0:59:27Clearly, I mean this is again this is obvious anybody who's seen the movie knows this.
0:59:30She is the Luke Skywalker. She's the, you know, the force aware, force capable,
0:59:3720-ish year old who's living on a desert planet and has, you know, dreams and of bigger adventures.
0:59:48She's a pilot, you know, she's the new Luke. But whereas Luke was
0:59:54She's better than Luke. She's definitely way better than Luke.
0:59:58Luke wants to go to the... whatever. Tamagotchi station. That's not the word. I know.
1:00:04To get some power converters.
1:00:06Tashi station.
1:00:08Tashi station. She will build you some damn power converters.
1:00:12She just made me so, so happy.
1:00:17I mean, she was just this amazing female character.
1:00:21And I don't know if you remember,
1:00:25like before the movie came out,
1:00:27J.J. Abrams was obviously doing a lot of press
1:00:29and he said something kind of--
1:00:30- He's good at that.
1:00:31- He just said something stupid,
1:00:33but he didn't, but you know, I just felt like,
1:00:36well, give the guy a chance.
1:00:37And I just feel like--
1:00:38- I think he was trying to be coy, right?
1:00:40- Well, I just think he was,
1:00:41and let's face it, when we were little,
1:00:44girls did love Star Wars,
1:00:45but it was marketed towards boys.
1:00:48And I think that everyone who criticized him
1:00:52owes him an apology, because he said maybe one silly
1:00:56kind of dumb thing, but then in the movie, it was so true.
1:01:00I mean, she absolutely kicked ass, she was amazing.
1:01:03- Yeah, I think he said something like,
1:01:05"Star Wars has always been a boys thing,
1:01:09"but I hope with this movie,
1:01:11"mothers will wanna take their daughters
1:01:13"and it'll be a girl thing."
1:01:14And then people got bent out of shape,
1:01:16'cause he was like, well, it wasn't always a boy thing.
1:01:20I was like, yeah, okay.
1:01:23- He just misspoke. - True.
1:01:24- He just wasn't-- - The guy said something stupid.
1:01:26- But then he made a movie with a kick-ass female character.
1:01:29- Yeah, he'd already made the movie when he said it,
1:01:32and he was like trying not to be,
1:01:34he can't spoil it, and he's trying to be like,
1:01:36look, this is gonna be more,
1:01:39this is gonna be more powerful women characters
1:01:41in this movie than you expect,
1:01:42is what he's trying to say.
1:01:44- Right, right.
1:01:45And it's like just, he screwed up.
1:01:48- I really loved the introduction to her, cinematically.
1:01:53- Oh my God.
1:01:54- And it's when she's exploring the husk
1:01:57of a destroyed star destroyer on the surface of the planet.
1:02:02And I thought it the first time I saw it,
1:02:06and I had this in mind the second time I saw it.
1:02:08To me, I really do think it's almost an homage to Wally,
1:02:14that she lives this solitary life
1:02:17that is to me a lot like Wally,
1:02:19in the way that Wally was cleaning up garbage
1:02:21and she was sort of scavenging the garbage for parts.
1:02:25But the way too that the entire introduction to her,
1:02:28she's by herself and she never mutters,
1:02:31there's never anything where she says anything,
1:02:32she doesn't talk to herself or anything.
1:02:34It's purely cinematic.
1:02:36You just see her exploring this thing.
1:02:38It's beautiful.
1:02:40It really does look real.
1:02:42I mean, obviously I guess a lot of that was CGI,
1:02:44but unlike the prequels, to me,
1:02:46it really looked like they built
1:02:48a giant empty Star Destroyer.
1:02:51And it established her character.
1:02:53It's like, wow, whoever she is,
1:02:55she knows the way that she's grappling around
1:02:58on these hooks and cables and stuff like that.
1:03:01She knows what she's doing.
1:03:02And then her excavation ends
1:03:06with her sliding down the dune like a sled.
1:03:09And it's just a little bit of whimsy
1:03:11that to me was like, but she's, you know, she's trying to have fun.
1:03:14I loved it.
1:03:17I loved the luxury that Tolkien establishing the way she lived her life.
1:03:22A lot of movies just have like a faster pace these days.
1:03:27And maybe they'll drop a couple of lines of exposition like, oh man, I can't
1:03:34believe I've spent like another day scavenging in the Star Destroyer, you
1:03:37know, like something like that.
1:03:38But this is like so much better.
1:03:41Like, you can-- like, it's nice and slow.
1:03:43It's, uh, the sled is whimsy, but it also just makes sense.
1:03:50Why, like, she-- you know that she's been doing this a long time.
1:03:53She collects a bunch of stuff, she puts on the sled, she slides down the thing,
1:03:57and she carries it home on her speedometer.
1:03:59Right.
1:04:00And it was slow paced, but it was-- it's still enjoyable to watch.
1:04:04And I felt like it was slow paced, and you got a lot out of it.
1:04:07Like you really got her isolation.
1:04:10And I thought that was really,
1:04:13I thought it was really interesting.
1:04:14But like you said, it was a slow paced thing,
1:04:16but it was super enjoyable to watch.
1:04:19- I loved it.
1:04:19I loved that she was in line.
1:04:21She was in line to sell the parts.
1:04:24Like just the weird, like,
1:04:25it's just perfect.
1:04:28Like the monotony of like, okay, I'm gonna do this.
1:04:31I love the shot of her and the,
1:04:34she's cleaning off the parts that she's collected.
1:04:37and she looks up and across the table from her is a weathered old woman.
1:04:43And not just an old woman, but an old woman who's clearly being
1:04:47beaten down by the sands and the environment that they're living in.
1:04:53And it's very brief shot,
1:04:56but it registers with her and with us that, "Okay, this is it. This is my future."
1:05:03- This is me if I don't get something going.
1:05:06- Yeah. - Right.
1:05:07- The other shot that to me was, it's just cinema.
1:05:11There's no dialogue, but when she tries on the helmet,
1:05:15she finds like a rebel-- - So great.
1:05:17- A rebel X-wing pilot helmet, and she tries it on.
1:05:20It tells you exactly what you think.
1:05:22She's dreaming of getting off the planet.
1:05:24- Right.
1:05:25- And she's eating her food all happy?
1:05:28- Yeah.
1:05:29- Like she's not-- - You know,
1:05:30they're gonna start selling that food at Disney.
1:05:32They're gonna sell, I mean, they will sell anything at Disney and the Star Wars stuff is just out of control.
1:05:37Like they have opened up a new building in one of the parks just to sell Star Wars stuff.
1:05:42And they're going to sell those little gruel packets. I know it. And kids are gonna go nuts.
1:05:47One quarter, one quarter portion.
1:05:49Yeah. But I liked it that she was like, she had a smile on her face. Like, okay, that was a day well done.
1:05:58I've got something to eat. I'm sitting here eating my thing. I've got my helmet.
1:06:02Feeling good, you know?
1:06:05Well, here's one more thing. Because it wasn't like, oh, I'm... it wasn't like a, you know, like an Oliver Twist kind of thing.
1:06:13Where it's like, oh god, everything is awful, and I'm the worst. It was like, no, make my way.
1:06:18It's one of the subtle ways that I found her so much more likable than Luke in the first movie, where Luke is so...
1:06:26So, you know, like, and he's like, "Oh, another season."
1:06:31- Like, poor me, like, why is this happening to me?
1:06:33Like, I have these big dreams,
1:06:35but I'm not really gonna do anything about them.
1:06:36I'm just gonna whine about my circumstance.
1:06:38- Yeah.
1:06:39- And I didn't, you know what,
1:06:40I didn't get like a contentedness from Ray.
1:06:42I got a, "Hey, I'm putting up with this,
1:06:45"but I'm gonna do something."
1:06:46- Oh yeah, yeah, don't talk to him anymore.
1:06:48I don't think she's content. - Yeah, I mean,
1:06:49I don't think she was like smiling.
1:06:49- I just thought that she took joy in small moments
1:06:52of like, I'm sitting here enjoying my thing.
1:06:55At least I'm eating for today,
1:06:56and this is going to get better.
1:06:58Like I'm gonna do that. - I've got my happy helmet on.
1:07:00(both laughing)
1:07:02Which I love, I just love the idea of like,
1:07:04and you know what nobody talks about is the,
1:07:06so she marks off one day at a time on that wall.
1:07:12- Right. - And there was a lot of marks.
1:07:14- A lot of marks. (laughs)
1:07:16- Oh, a lot of marks going on, yeah.
1:07:18- Yeah, clearly her backstory is,
1:07:22It's a total JJ Abrams-ism.
1:07:25Mystery box kind of thing.
1:07:26Yeah, a mystery box.
1:07:28And including the fact that we don't hear her last name.
1:07:30I mean, obviously there's an awful lot of people
1:07:32who are speculating that maybe she's Luke's daughter,
1:07:35that she's Rey Skywalker.
1:07:37Yeah, I don't believe that.
1:07:39She was left there for whatever mysterious reasons.
1:07:42I don't know.
1:07:43There's gotta be some reason we don't know her last name.
1:07:46Or any other speculation, the other guess,
1:07:49and going along typical Star Wars.
1:07:51lines where everybody ends up being somebody's brother or sister
1:07:55would be that she's Han and Leia's daughter.
1:07:59But that, that to me doesn't seem plausible just because of the way that
1:08:03Han's interaction with her, it doesn't even, if there was even a chance of that...
1:08:08She's Kenobi's granddaughter.
1:08:12We know that? No, we don't know that.
1:08:15That's what I choose to assert right now.
1:08:19A) She's got the accent. B) We hear Kenobi speaking to her in the flashback sequence.
1:08:25C) Anakin and Kenobi went at it originally, which is kind of what set the whole thing off.
1:08:34And I don't know what the other one is. I have another reason.
1:08:42I have heard.
1:08:43She's just awesome.
1:08:45I have heard.
1:08:46So she's got it. I'm a huge Obi-Wan Kenobi fan. Like, he's my guy.
1:08:50Uh, so I'm going with her being the...
1:08:53Or maybe she could be like his niece or something, but she, you know, maybe she's named Rey Kenobi.
1:08:58No, no, so my, I mean, my thing is like, you know what, if you look like Ewan McGregor,
1:09:03and all of your buddies in the Jedi Order get wiped out,
1:09:06and you're stuck on Tatooine with nothing to do for 20 years,
1:09:10I think the cantina may look like a good place to have a little bit of fun if you know that.
1:09:15Have we thought about the fact that she might be Yoda's?
1:09:19I haven't thought about that. I had not thought about that.
1:09:26I don't want to know how that goes on.
1:09:29Here's a complaint I have with the movie.
1:09:32One of my complaints is that they don't introduce any memorable vehicles that are new.
1:09:39It's just they've painted the TIE Fighters black.
1:09:42They have created a new two-seat TIE Fighter.
1:09:45What is it? Like the Special Forces TIE Fighter?
1:09:47Yeah, yeah, that was a plot contrivance, right?
1:09:50But it's, you know, it's the Millennium Falcon, X-wings, Star Destroyers, all the vehicles.
1:09:55There's no Y-wings, there's no TIE Interceptors, there's no bombers, there's no A-wings, there's no B-wings, there's nothing.
1:10:01There's just X-wings and TIE Fighters.
1:10:03That's exactly where I'm going.
1:10:04Where the only cool new vehicle at all is Ray's Speeder.
1:10:08I didn't even like it.
1:10:09Oh, I kind of liked it. I did. I kind of liked it.
1:10:12It's like a Lance Beater, but we turned it on its side. I don't know.
1:10:14No, I kind of liked it. I think if I was a kid, I'd want I would want the Ray's Beater toy.
1:10:19I liked it. It was kind of shitty. It's just a big box. No, because it makes sense. Right? It's like, what?
1:10:26She's not gonna be like, going around with it like a dope ride. Whatever. It's like, this thing moves.
1:10:33And that's like...
1:10:34It's utilitarian. It's totally utilitarian.
1:10:36Well, I guess I think it looks cool. My only complaint with it is that given her career, she kind of needs like a pickup truck.
1:10:44Something to haul things.
1:10:48Like in theory, she could there could be some some salvageable stuff in that Star Destroyer that or whatever other records, you know, she's she's exploring, that would be too big to take on that thing. She kind of needs a truck.
1:11:02So my take is that the scavenging has been going on for so long that there's very little left.
1:11:09Yeah, exactly.
1:11:12You get like, she's climbing way up to get like a little tiny part that, you know, she takes.
1:11:18Right.
1:11:19I don't think, like all of the good stuff was gone like 20 years ago, basically, before she was born.
1:11:24It's kind of my vague take on it.
1:11:26Right, it's a rough life.
1:11:27Yeah.
1:11:29It's not just scavenging, it's like picking the little scraps of meat off the bones at this point.
1:11:37Alright, so the other new major character is Finn. What do you guys think about Finn?
1:11:44I love Finn. I liked him a lot.
1:11:47Yeah, me too.
1:11:48He's like a, you know, when it's, he's like a good guy,
1:11:51and like he's finding himself throughout the movie. Like, I think it's fun.
1:11:57He's got a good heart and he has bad luck.
1:12:00And I like that he's kind of the bumbler. You know what I mean?
1:12:03They may have heard the badass and he's kind of the bumbler. I like that. I like that.
1:12:07Well, and I think it compares well in the first scene where we really get to see him.
1:12:12I mean, obviously there's the opening battle where he, for whatever reason,
1:12:16has broken through the indoctrination of these stormtroopers and has serious moral qualms.
1:12:24I really hated that though because stormtroopers don't bleed and I realized like the the
1:12:28The use of that, you know that he it marks him and it shows that he's affected but stormtroopers have never bled. I
1:12:36Thought it was weird. I
1:12:39Agree, it was weird. It definitely broke the expectations of the Star Wars movies
1:12:44But I think the fact that we saw a strong trooper bleeding
1:12:51humanize them.
1:12:52Right.
1:12:53And I think that's what this was.
1:12:53Which allowed us to then like go ahead and, you know, so.
1:12:56I vivid-
1:12:57Right, like he was like, holy crap, we're killing people here for no reason.
1:13:00We're just mad.
1:13:00Yeah, but like just the mere fact that a stormtrooper, also, uh, that stormtrooper
1:13:06didn't have a glove on.
1:13:07Yeah.
1:13:09Yeah.
1:13:09Like, and it doesn't make sense.
1:13:11Not if it makes sense, just keep rolling.
1:13:13Stop thinking, keep rolling.
1:13:16Okay, he's a human and now we're expressing his human and he kind of has a bond with
1:13:21this guy and that's it. Like just... Cut it short and keep going.
1:13:27I vividly remember in my childhood, when the movies were new and I was a little kid, that
1:13:32one of the recurring arguments that me and my friends would have, or a debate I guess,
1:13:36was exactly what are the stormtroopers? Are they people? Are they clones? Because they
1:13:42mentioned the Clone Wars, you know, are they clones? And I remember a lot of my friends
1:13:46thought...
1:13:47because they switch, you know, they, Han and Luke take their outfits.
1:13:53Yeah, but there were people who, I remember I had friends who argued that they were droids,
1:13:57that they must have been like robots, and that even the one-
1:13:59Because friends are stupid.
1:14:00And that they, you know, that-
1:14:01I agree that it was stupid, and it wasn't my argument, but it was enough of a mystery that
1:14:07at least some kids would argue that they were droids, and that Han and Luke had like,
1:14:12hollowed out, you know, taken all the robot cuts out.
1:14:15Well that would have taken a lot of time.
1:14:17I agree, it's stupid. It wasn't my argument.
1:14:19No, I'm sorry. Okay, stupid is way harsh for childhood friends.
1:14:23Uh, no, but I've always seen them as, as, uh...
1:14:27I don't want to throw them under the bus, but my childhood friend, I'll just name them. David Neumoyer thought that they were droids.
1:14:32Okay, David, I'm sorry, man. I don't... didn't mean to call you stupid.
1:14:37He made a good case for it, though.
1:14:39I bet he did. As a ten-year-old.
1:14:42- Right, so I love the scene.
1:14:45I really love the scene where Poe and Finn first meet.
1:14:50And to me, and it's where J.J. Abrams really just nailed it,
1:14:55where Poe Dameron is clearly like a,
1:15:00right out of mythology, he's the hero's hero.
1:15:04He's brave, he's never afraid.
1:15:07- He's got a square jaw that could break
1:15:09like a granite block.
1:15:10- He felt like Indiana Jones.
1:15:11Like that's, and even the jacket, I felt like, wow, he's an Indiana Jones.
1:15:14Yeah.
1:15:15And like a typical, you know, like when James Bond gets captured, he's never
1:15:18like worried, you know, that he's not going to, he just figures, ah, something's
1:15:21going to happen, I'm going to get out of it.
1:15:22Yeah.
1:15:23And he's got that.
1:15:24It's like your thing where he's read the script ahead.
1:15:26And he's got that confidence.
1:15:28And Finn is a perfect foil because Finn is like literally in like a flop sweat.
1:15:34I mean, he is like in like, he's having like the crisis of his life.
1:15:38He knows that captain Phasma is onto him.
1:15:41You know, he's supposed to go down to
1:15:43What does she say? I want your weapon inspected. They're gonna figure out he never he says she says
1:15:48report to division, I don't even know what that means, but it's like
1:15:51Kind of doesn't sound good. Yeah, and there's that line where he's like, why are you doing this?
1:15:58Are you part of the resistance and he and Finn is like it's just the right thing to do and he goes you need a
1:16:03Pilot and he goes yeah, I need a pilot and it's funny and that really did that moment in the movie watching it
1:16:09It really struck me that for all of the book length criticism you can have of the prequel
1:16:15trilogy and what's wrong with it, that the dialogue is stilted and the characters are
1:16:20lame and the plot is all this political stuff and you don't even know who the bad guys are
1:16:24because it seems like both sides are really working for the emperor so there's no bad
1:16:27guys.
1:16:28And you can go on and on and on and talk about the effects and how everything was green screen.
1:16:32But it really hit me with that joke of "Yeah, I need a pilot."
1:16:36But you know what?
1:16:37One of the huge, huge gaping flaws in the prequel trilogy is there's nothing funny in
1:16:42them at all.
1:16:43And a Star Wars movie should be funny.
1:16:45Yes.
1:16:46Yeah.
1:16:47You need to hit the funny action beats, like, in a certain way.
1:16:51Right.
1:16:52But like I said earlier, it's all corny funny, but it's like, you know...
1:16:55That's okay, though.
1:16:56Right.
1:16:57Right.
1:16:58No, it's in a good way.
1:16:59And that's why, like I said earlier, like, you got the feeling that the people who made
1:17:01this movie really loved Star Wars.
1:17:04And I feel like they hit so many of the jokes in the right way.
1:17:08Like the joke about, you know, when they're running toward the ship and he's like, "What
1:17:13about that one?"
1:17:14And she's like, "No, that one's garbage."
1:17:15And then, you know, then they have to go to that one.
1:17:18And it's the Millennium Falcon.
1:17:19It's such a great joke.
1:17:20Like, it's such a Star Wars, like it just hits the perfect tone of Star Wars.
1:17:24And the main theme kicks in.
1:17:27Like the camera turns to show the Millennium Falcon and it does like, "Duh, duh, duh, duh,
1:17:32duh."
1:17:33- It's so exciting.
1:17:34- Yeah. - I don't know.
1:17:35I thought that's so exciting.
1:17:36- Now we're playing for real, you know?
1:17:38- It's such a perfect Star Wars joke.
1:17:41Totally corny, but yet you laugh anyway.
1:17:45- But that's, so that scene with Poe and Finn is amazing,
1:17:50because it immediately establishes Finn's character,
1:17:54who actually doesn't even have a name yet,
1:17:56but it establishes him as like a guy
1:18:01that knows what the good thing to say is.
1:18:05Like he knows what the right thing to do and say is, but he's actually
1:18:09just really out for himself.
1:18:11Like I'm letting you go because it's the right thing to do.
1:18:14Oh, you need a pilot?
1:18:15Yeah, I need a pilot.
1:18:17Like he knows what the thing to say is and then he's just, he can't hold it together.
1:18:25Like he can't lie very well, you know?
1:18:28So, and that comes up again and again in the movie.
1:18:31Yeah, and so one of the parallels, I think, and it's not an exact parallel,
1:18:36but clearly Finn is in a certain way, he is the Han Solo of this movie,
1:18:42where he's the character who's really just looking out for his own interests.
1:18:46Yeah.
1:18:47Lying and bluffing his way through everything.
1:18:50Yeah. Where Han was sort of, as soon as you met him, he was grizzled and competent.
1:18:56Finn is competent in some ways, but definitely not world-wise, like Han was, right?
1:19:06Right, because he's been a programmed stormtrooper this whole time, so I think it's amazing that he has as much thought as he does have.
1:19:15Yeah, exactly. If anything, it's kind of impressive that he's not more of an asshole.
1:19:21- Not to take out of the moment,
1:19:24but did we tell our son that we're doing this?
1:19:27And is it weird that he hasn't wondered where we are?
1:19:29(both laughing)
1:19:32I just thought of that.
1:19:35And he doesn't know where we are and he's not concerned.
1:19:38- He'll figure it out.
1:19:40(both laughing)
1:19:42- He's just got new video games for Christmas
1:19:48and I haven't seen him upright.
1:19:50In days.
1:19:55One of the things that in the first Star Wars movie is Han and Luke, you really don't see
1:20:03them together much.
1:20:05They're on the Millennium Falcon and Obi Wan is telling them about the force and Han
1:20:10I always assumed it's because Han can't really stand him.
1:20:13And I've been all around the galaxy.
1:20:16I've never seen anything that makes me believe in an all-powerful force controls my destiny and then they're on the Death Star and it's really
1:20:23Really, you know
1:20:25The only real scene they have together is that scene where they decide to go rescue Princess Leia and Luke is like, you know
1:20:30She's rich, you know
1:20:32You know, there'll be a big reward more than you can imagine. I don't know I can imagine quite a bit
1:20:37Well, they shoot the way out. They end up in a garbage compactor
1:20:42Yeah, but it's mostly action, but somehow they're not together for that much.
1:20:45I mean, it's obviously more than Poe and Finn are together, but it's not that much.
1:20:49But then somehow, but the way that it works though, is that when Empire Strikes Back starts and
1:20:54Luke says, you know, on his communicator, "Han, old buddy." And when, you know, Luke doesn't come back and Han is like,
1:21:01"That's my friend out there, you know, I'm gonna, you know..."
1:21:03Yeah, you know what it is? It's when Kenobi gets cut down.
1:21:07Yeah.
1:21:07And it's standing right there and they see it happen and I think that's the moment where it's like
1:21:12There's something about the interaction between Finn and Poe that to me even though it's really minimal in this movie
1:21:19That's just that one scene where they escaped together and then when they reunited and he's like, hey, that's my jacket
1:21:24Yeah, but somehow like if the next movie starts and it's it acted
1:21:30It'll just feel like Poe and Finn are like best buddies and comrades with oh, yeah with the deep camaraderie
1:21:36Like that's one of those things that that JJ Abrams really nailed. Yeah
1:21:41Well that I I mean, I don't know but I would bet a huge amount of money that the next movie is not gonna start
1:21:47Back on that planet with
1:21:51me and Luke
1:21:53Staring at each other. No. No, definitely. I think it's sort of like it's like a
1:21:58Tradition in Star Wars movies that something happens in between the movies. You have to what's the scroll gonna be?
1:22:06scroll is going to be like episode eight. Did you see the last one?
1:22:10Like, what do you think? No, you need to pause it. We'll wait.
1:22:17All right. Let me take another break here and thank, uh, our next sponsors,
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1:24:02Do you like that?
1:24:06- You're getting better at those.
1:24:07You're really good at those.
1:24:08I don't listen to your show.
1:24:10But this is really good.
1:24:12You're getting better.
1:24:14I can't wait to hear you pronounce the next one, though.
1:24:16- Wait, what is the next one?
1:24:17(Bridget laughs)
1:24:20It got swapped out.
1:24:22- This might be a Pixelmature type situation.
1:24:26- All right, so we've talked about Ray,
1:24:32we've talked about Finn. - John has some grits.
1:24:34- He really does, doesn't he?
1:24:35- So yeah, so we talked about Ray, we talked about Finn.
1:24:40Poe is, man candy, he can fly an X-ray and pretty great.
1:24:45- He's gotta have a bigger role in the next movie, right?
1:24:49- Yeah, I think so.
1:24:50He's sort of like gonna take the place of Han Solo, I think, in terms of his big...
1:24:54I really liked him, just because...
1:24:56Like the cool guy, handsome, like a guy said, square jaw. Like he's gotta be...
1:25:01Yeah, he was awesome. He's like almost too awesome. It's just ridiculous, yeah.
1:25:05So who are you left with? Kylo Ren. You wanna talk about Kylo?
1:25:11Well, I was gonna go to... where Amy had said, you know, "No, not that one. That one's garbage."
1:25:18and they take off in the Millennium Falcon.
1:25:20And then...
1:25:21That was so exciting.
1:25:22But then, here come Han and Chewie.
1:25:25And it's...
1:25:27The thing I want to talk about is this.
1:25:29That we find out.
1:25:31And when they...
1:25:32I don't know what other people knew.
1:25:34Spoilers. I came in.
1:25:35I did know Han and Chewie were in the movie.
1:25:37Because I did watch the first trailer where there's...
1:25:40Chewie were home.
1:25:41When they...
1:25:43And you knew they were going to come through that door, right?
1:25:45Yeah, I kind of did.
1:25:47You can see the framing and you, yeah.
1:25:49And I thought it was pretty, I thought it was telling that when they thought maybe it was the first order that had boarded them,
1:25:57but it, they didn't clearly show the ship that had taken the Millennium Falcon in.
1:26:01So since they didn't show it, I thought, you know, this must be it.
1:26:04Well, it was getting sucked in through the front rather than through the belly of a Star Destroyer.
1:26:08So I was like, yeah, this is weird.
1:26:10Yeah, it clearly wasn't a Star Destroyer.
1:26:12So when it was Han and Chewie, I wasn't surprised and it felt like the movie had gone on long enough without him
1:26:17but what about I have to say I really
1:26:21It but more than the Han Solo getting killed in the movie
1:26:26What bothered me more the first time I saw it was the idea that?
1:26:30That Hans backstory for this movie was that he was
1:26:35Separated from Leia obviously for some some significant amount of time
1:26:41maybe most of the 30 years, or at least a lot of it.
1:26:45- I think they fixed it about 20 years.
1:26:49- Really?
1:26:50I thought it was always obvious
1:26:51that they could never be together.
1:26:53- Well, they can't.
1:26:54- That they can't stand each other.
1:26:55I mean, they obviously love each other,
1:26:57but I just think that one of those not meant to be,
1:26:59like, they're not going to like--
1:27:01- Hand screwed something up.
1:27:03- Yeah, exactly.
1:27:04- Even if their son hadn't gone bad, hand screwed up.
1:27:10All right, but even more than being separated from Leia, even
1:27:13way more, actually, I was bothered by the idea that he and
1:27:16Chewie had lost the Millennium Falcon.
1:27:18I just feel like all right, maybe he loses his family. You
1:27:24know, all right, that happens. I mean, that can happen to a guy.
1:27:27But there's no way there's no way that Han Solo is gonna lose
1:27:30the Millennium Falcon.
1:27:31So we're gonna get divorced, but you're gonna hold on to that
1:27:33accurate.
1:27:34And you'll be perfectly fine.
1:27:37(laughing)
1:27:39- You're kind of a bad person.
1:27:44- I don't know why I agreed to this.
1:27:49- I like our car, but it's not the Millennium Falcon.
1:27:51If our car was as cool as the Millennium Falcon,
1:27:53I would say, yeah.
1:27:54Like I kind of thought when they boarded
1:27:58that maybe like the idea was gonna be
1:28:00that they had planted the Millennium Falcon there
1:28:03and that maybe they'd explain it, maybe they wouldn't,
1:28:05but that it was part of the plan
1:28:06and that's why they picked it up,
1:28:07because they left behind.
1:28:09The idea that they, Han and Chewie,
1:28:11haven't had the Falcon for some number of years
1:28:13really bothered me.
1:28:14- He can't hold onto anything.
1:28:16He's not a good person.
1:28:18I mean, he's a good person,
1:28:20but he's not really good at life.
1:28:23Like, he's always fly by the seat of his pants, right?
1:28:26- Yeah, that's true.
1:28:28- I'm surprised.
1:28:29- Look, like so much of this movie,
1:28:34It is a meta movie in so many ways.
1:28:37On a truly not having been on the Falcon in 30 years is because we haven't been on the Falcon in 30 years.
1:28:44That's it. The reason R2D2 is asleep the entire time until after we blow up the Death Star
1:28:49is because R2D2 is the heart and soul of the movies.
1:28:54And after we've done the entire first movie again by blowing up the Death Star,
1:28:59rather than like a medal ceremony,
1:29:01we get to see R2-D2 reboot magically
1:29:04out of the ether for no good reason.
1:29:08- Oh yeah, that's something that John and I
1:29:10spent a lot of time talking about,
1:29:11like what makes him wake up.
1:29:13- It's a narrative, well, who cares?
1:29:15It's a narrative construct.
1:29:16It's like R2-D2 is the heart of Star Wars
1:29:19and he wakes up after we've seen a Star Wars--
1:29:21- I like that we spent two hours talking about it
1:29:23and you're like, who cares?
1:29:24(laughing)
1:29:25- Well--
1:29:27- I think he's right though, I think that--
1:29:28I think you're absolutely right too.
1:29:30Like I'm not, it's like a briefcase.
1:29:31Do you want to find like an in-universe excuse?
1:29:33I'm sure we can.
1:29:33I'm sure we can.
1:29:34It's like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction.
1:29:35You know what I mean?
1:29:36Like you're not supposed to spend time dwelling on it.
1:29:38Don't, doesn't matter.
1:29:40Right.
1:29:40But we've seen, we've seen a Star Wars movie concluding with the
1:29:44destruction of a Death Star.
1:29:46Do you feel rekindled?
1:29:49Here's the movie title, The Force Awakens.
1:29:52What happens?
1:29:53Force Awakens.
1:29:54R2-D2 awakens and literally tells you.
1:29:57See, I think it's like his mental connection with Luke.
1:30:00And Luke was like, you know.
1:30:01I actually think that Luke forced diddled him.
1:30:06Or like turned him on in some way.
1:30:10I think Luke was like, "Hey, you chill out till I send you a signal, and then I'll send
1:30:15you a signal and you come to life."
1:30:17Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:30:19I use the word diddle for that.
1:30:20But yeah, so I think he, in the universe, I think, in terms of writing the script,
1:30:26It's like, who cares?
1:30:28It's like, O2D2 represents something to us.
1:30:32And the fact that we have the new droid BB-8 bump him and like, want to resurrect
1:30:39him is, again, meta commentary on like, we have to, you know, we're trying to reboot
1:30:46these old movies, we're trying to get them back.
1:30:48The whole thing about inheritance and how even just the scavenger stuff, like that
1:30:56the new people are scavenging parts from the old,
1:31:00you know, from the old Empire or from the old series
1:31:05and they're reusing them, like all of this is just, it's--
1:31:09- Right, that's for us to say, oh my gosh, look at that,
1:31:12you know, look at the old ship or, now I agree with you,
1:31:14I think that the whole thing--
1:31:15- Well, just as a meta commentary, like the--
1:31:18- That the movie is scavenging the old movies.
1:31:20- Exactly. - Oh, that's interesting.
1:31:22- Exactly, like the whole thing,
1:31:24Like it works on a lot of different levels.
1:31:26Not that I'm saying this movie is high art or anything, but...
1:31:29Yeah, don't get crazy, but...
1:31:31But I think it's silly to think of it in terms of like,
1:31:36"Well, man, they already made this movie."
1:31:38Yes. Okay. Thank you.
1:31:41Now, can we think about why maybe they made these choices?
1:31:44And I think that the reason they made these choices is,
1:31:49you know, it's a modern myth,
1:31:51telling a myth is part of being a myth and it's certainly you know in terms of
1:32:00scavenging or the R2-D2 thing like the acknowledging what has come before is is
1:32:05a large part of what this movie is about and I think it's like an intentional
1:32:11choice. Here's what I've upon thinking about it after like Mike said my initial
1:32:16reaction was that it really bothered me that they decided that Han had lost the
1:32:19Falcon at some point.
1:32:20We lost the Falcon. That's the thing we right.
1:32:24I agree. I and that works for me. But the other thing too is I also
1:32:29really like the idea once it settled in that rock bottom for
1:32:34Han Solo. He still had Chewbacca like like so like the fact that
1:32:39he'd lost the Falcon just showed just how far he's fallen and it
1:32:43lends some weight to like your general that Han Solo general
1:32:46Solo and he says, "I used to be." I like it. It bothered me at first, but I actually...
1:32:54I love that line because it works for Han Solo and it works for Harrison Ford, too.
1:32:59And the other thing, too, that really struck me about this movie is it's by far, and I've always
1:33:05been a fan of Chewbacca, and I've always thought that Chewbacca is an underrated special effect
1:33:13because to me he's he is the most credible and believable alien creature in any movie ever made
1:33:19yeah like you just never doubt and and and so many of the effects in the original star wars
1:33:25they're good but they're they kind of hold up only with nostalgia whereas Chewbacca he really he does
1:33:32not look like a man in a suit he looks like a wookie yeah and i don't know what they did you
1:33:38You know, like the... what was that magazine when we were kids that would have all the...
1:33:42Fangoria?
1:33:43Fangoria.
1:33:44Yeah.
1:33:44Uh...
1:33:45Phantasm?
1:33:46Fan...
1:33:46Well, there were...
1:33:47I remember Fangoria.
1:33:48Yeah.
1:33:48But like, just the effects that they did to make his mouth not look like a human mouth and everything.
1:33:54He's always been a super credible alien.
1:33:57I loved it.
1:33:57But this movie, to me, was by far and away the best Chewbacca movie ever.
1:34:01It's...
1:34:02He... on his own...
1:34:03He... kind of steals the show.
1:34:05and in terms of just emphasizing
1:34:09what an incredible friendship he and Han Solo have.
1:34:12- Really, because I think, okay, I'm not dwelling on it,
1:34:16but I think he got over it pretty quickly.
1:34:19I mean, Han Solo died,
1:34:20and I think one of the second things I turned to you
1:34:23and said after Han Solo died was, "Oh my God, poor Chewie."
1:34:26After I said, "Why couldn't it have been Chewie?"
1:34:30- They did a disservice to that.
1:34:33- Yeah, I felt like he just wasn't,
1:34:34- 'Cause then after what he's flirting with that nurse,
1:34:36come on, Han Solo died.
1:34:38- No, wait, no, no, that was before.
1:34:42- I've only seen the movie once.
1:34:43- Yeah, no, that's cool.
1:34:45That was before.
1:34:46- Okay.
1:34:47- Yeah, and that was kind of adorable.
1:34:50- That was adorable, that really was adorable.
1:34:52But I didn't know he was broken up enough.
1:34:54I feel like, well, who knows?
1:34:56I feel like shooting's not the reason why.
1:34:58- Well, he shoots a family member.
1:34:59- Right, right.
1:35:02Which is very not like the Chewbacca we've ever seen.
1:35:05Like, he may strangle Lando.
1:35:09Lando got Han Solo frozen in carbonate and sold to the Empire and then back to Jabba
1:35:15Hutt.
1:35:16And he didn't kill him on sight, you know?
1:35:17He shot Han's son, who Han was willing to die to dry rescue, and Chewie was like, "Screw
1:35:22you, you kill Han Solo, I'm shooting you."
1:35:25Yeah.
1:35:26He's a friend.
1:35:27And he got him pretty good, too.
1:35:28And they spent a lot of time in that movie establishing that, like, that thing hurts.
1:35:32Right.
1:35:33No, they did!
1:35:34They were like, "Hey, can I try that?"
1:35:36And he shot it and two stormtroopers just blow up.
1:35:39He doesn't even hit them, and they just blow up.
1:35:41They spent a lot of time establishing that that thing is, uh, that's gonna sting.
1:35:46I feel like you guys take this, like, a lot more seriously than I do, and you have, like,
1:35:51some super-
1:35:52You think?
1:35:53I don't know!
1:35:54But you guys have some super insights.
1:35:55I would have guessed so, but I mean you're actually heartbroken like you know I was texting you and I just was like oh man
1:36:04Texted John right after Mike. I'm sorry. I think it made me sad
1:36:08I talked about I know like it really got to me, but let's talk about like cuz Jonas got one for Christmas
1:36:14Let's talk about Kylo Ren's lightsaber
1:36:16Like why does it have like a stick at the bottom that you can cut yourself open with?
1:36:21Like it's got the crossy thing and Jonas still insists that Han Solo died with the crossy thing
1:36:27Like Han Solo's not going out with the crossy thing like he got the big end
1:36:30Oh, oh, oh
1:36:32[laughter]
1:36:34You can't take out Han Solo with the crossy end
1:36:36'Cause you know it's like a cross
1:36:37No, no that was pointed right at his chest
1:36:39Right, right, it's so obvious
1:36:41It's going right through him
1:36:43He's a stupid kid
1:36:45He's not a stupid kid, he's a hopeful, lovely kid
1:36:47I'm his mother, I think Colin's stupid
1:36:49I wish I was that
1:36:51hopeful that Han Solo would come back, but he's dead.
1:36:55- He was so sure, and I was just like, no, and stop,
1:36:58and then him saying it was getting me more upset.
1:37:00- I love that, I love that you're like,
1:37:03I'm more emotionally affected by this than you, so don't.
1:37:06- And Jonas was just like, it's fine, mama, it's fine.
1:37:09I was like, you don't understand,
1:37:10I have loved Han Solo my whole life.
1:37:12(laughing)
1:37:13- I cannot be your mother right now.
1:37:16I need to deal with this loss of Han Solo.
1:37:18- And seriously, on the way home, he was like, he's fine.
1:37:20And I was like, just get out of my face.
1:37:22Get out of my face.
1:37:23Like, I can't take it.
1:37:25- It was a real ugly scene.
1:37:26- Yeah, like this breaks families apart.
1:37:29But why does his thing have that,
1:37:31like it's like a half a Darth Maul,
1:37:33like at the bottom.
1:37:34And it's like John and I were saying,
1:37:36it just seems like you're gonna stab yourself.
1:37:39His lightsaber makes no sense.
1:37:41- My take on it is that the production designers
1:37:43wanted to make an original lightsaber.
1:37:45- So they could sell more like the Darth Mauls
1:37:48where they had the double side of,
1:37:50This is better than Darth Maul.
1:37:52This is way better than Darth Maul.
1:37:53Yeah, but he had, he wielded his like, like Rey's stick, like in the middle
1:37:58and twirled and stuff like this.
1:38:00But this one just has one, like I imagine Kylo Ren has a whole bunch of
1:38:03robes that have like cuts in them because, oh shoot, I cut myself with my
1:38:08lightsaber, because he's not that good at it.
1:38:09Well, he does use one of the edges to hurt Finn, right?
1:38:15It just doesn't seem like a practical design though.
1:38:18It's exactly-
1:38:19It's an impractical design.
1:38:20- But we bought one.
1:38:21So, I mean, something's working.
1:38:24- So it worked out.
1:38:25(laughing)
1:38:28- These are the kinds of things
1:38:34that kept me up about this movie.
1:38:36- There's so much about this movie
1:38:41that we haven't even addressed.
1:38:43- We didn't talk about Princess Leia at all.
1:38:45- All right, well let's talk about Leia.
1:38:47- I cried a little when I saw her too.
1:38:49I was so excited.
1:38:51- Well, how great that scene where Han and Leia are reunited.
1:38:55- It's my favorite scene in the whole thing
1:38:58where Han and Leia are reunited
1:39:00and it's such a good Star Wars joke
1:39:03and then C-3P pops up and he's like,
1:39:07what does he call him?
1:39:08Does he call him Captain Solo?
1:39:10And then he says, perhaps you did not recognize me
1:39:13because of my red arm.
1:39:14(laughs)
1:39:16And it's so funny.
1:39:18- It's so perfect.
1:39:19It is I, C-3PO.
1:39:21(laughing)
1:39:21Perhaps he did not recognize me because of my red arm.
1:39:25And Han Solo, of course, recognizes him
1:39:28'cause he hates him.
1:39:29(laughing)
1:39:31And he looks totally the same.
1:39:32One of the best things about Han Solo
1:39:34is that he hasn't just murdered C-3PO at this point.
1:39:37(laughing)
1:39:39Like that is the defining characteristic of him.
1:39:42Between Chewbacca and Han Solo,
1:39:44I can't believe he's allowed to live.
1:39:46(laughing)
1:39:48I love C-3PO. I do, I love him. He's such a fussy little annoying.
1:39:52There's a bunch of weird stuff happening about the droids.
1:39:56BB-8, it appears, knows 3PO.
1:40:01And certainly why wouldn't he?
1:40:03Because they all hang out at the Resistance base when they're out and out on missions.
1:40:07And yet he uncovers O2D2 and 3PO has to explain to BB-8 that O2D2 is asleep.
1:40:17He's like, "Yeah, BB-8 would have known that, because you guys have been hanging out for like 20 years now, so..."
1:40:25And every time he pokes him, nothing happens.
1:40:27Well, you know what? I do... I kind of like that...
1:40:33Droids giving other droids exposition doesn't count as like...
1:40:42Clunky dialogue, I guess? I don't... like...
1:40:45Why is he telling him this? Like, this little droid should have known that, like, for a long time.
1:40:50But, because we don't know it, and we don't have any words coming out of BB-8's mouth, we can...
1:40:56We're fine. You know what I mean? Like, we can just accept that.
1:41:00Here's a scene I did not... I really didn't care for. I did not care for the scene on Han and Chewie's
1:41:08new freighter where they have these three captured animals and two different pirate crews somehow
1:41:15easily breaking the ship. Oh, I liked it. I thought it was exactly like what he said,
1:41:20like I'm going to talk my way out of this just like I do everything. I thought it was a fun
1:41:24little like... it may be a little sad, but go ahead. Well, I didn't dislike it. It's not like
1:41:31I thought that they should take it out, but... They could cut that and nothing would change.
1:41:36Yeah, it doesn't really do much.
1:41:37Yeah, it doesn't really do anything.
1:41:38But I just liked seeing Han Solo, like being Han Solo.
1:41:42Here's my take on it, is that this movie is beat for beat,
1:41:49along with Star Wars.
1:41:52And in Star Wars, about mid-script, they--
1:41:57so they get on a ship that is called Garbage,
1:42:02and they get picked up by basically like a garbage scow.
1:42:07And then they end up fighting a tentacle monster.
1:42:10All of which is akin to falling down the garbage chute,
1:42:14getting into the trash compactor
1:42:15and then fighting the tentacle monster in Star Wars.
1:42:18And so I think, beat for beat,
1:42:20they wanted some kind of tentacle monster
1:42:25at this point in the script.
1:42:26- Right, but it also established like a trust for Rey.
1:42:31And it gave Ray a chance to be a badass.
1:42:33And I love the relationship between Han Solo and Ray.
1:42:36I love the way he so obviously respects her, but he's not the kind of person to just say,
1:42:43like, "Wow, I think you're great."
1:42:44I don't know.
1:42:45I thought it--
1:42:46I think it had some purpose, but I don't think that giant CGI tentacle balls was
1:42:56necessarily the best way to establish that.
1:42:59You know, like to me it was a bit much.
1:43:01It was a very J.J. Abrams scene to me.
1:43:03And it also felt a lot more like his Star Trek stuff.
1:43:07You know, like in the one Star Trek movie where there was the monster chasing Kirk on the ice planet.
1:43:12It just felt like that. Rather than feeling like Star Wars.
1:43:17Because to me, what makes Star Wars, Star Wars a lot of the time is that the action scenes are sort of allowed to breathe.
1:43:25like diced up in the editing room as quick quick quick quick quick shots it's
1:43:30more like the action plays out in the frame and that that scene was to me more
1:43:36like a like any current decade science fiction alien movie yeah it felt a bit
1:43:44more modern than I maybe then I wanted it to and Finn getting dragged away and
1:43:50Yeah, that was weird.
1:43:53Like, why? I don't understand the motivation of the creatures.
1:43:57Not that I need to necessarily understand them, but how come they're eating some guys and not them?
1:44:05They're going to drag him around for ten minutes. And you knew he wasn't in danger.
1:44:08I knew he wasn't going to die.
1:44:10Yeah, of course.
1:44:11Now, there was one moment, I think Guy, maybe you even said this to me, Guy, when we were chatting about the movie,
1:44:16but that there is a...
1:44:18When Han shoved the one bad guy into the alien's mouth,
1:44:24it was sort of a, to me, the...
1:44:27the...
1:44:30the nod was to the "Han shot first" argument.
1:44:34It was sort of, and to me, maybe...
1:44:36I'm not sure if that was me, but yeah.
1:44:38It was sort of the only "F you" they gave to George Lucas.
1:44:41You know, the whole thing to me was pretty respectful of Lucas and the prequels.
1:44:46And I think Amy had hinted at this earlier, but to me, it was actually to me a very kindness
1:44:54that they did to George Lucas that they made Kylo Ren so clearly like Anakin.
1:45:01Not the Anakin that I wanted Anakin to be, but the Anakin that George Lucas wrote in
1:45:06the prequels.
1:45:10And then it works in terms of...
1:45:11Yeah, they did a better Anakin.
1:45:13Right.
1:45:14shoving the guy into the alien's mouth, just killing the guy.
1:45:17To me, it was like, hey, Han Solo is the guy who shoves guys into aliens and doesn't
1:45:21doesn't worry about it, he doesn't wait for them to shoot first.
1:45:24Yeah, that guy's just standing there.
1:45:26He punches him in the face and then and then
1:45:30he takes a step back.
1:45:31He's like, oh, wait, I can use this guy for something more.
1:45:34And grabs him and throws him into the mouth of the alien.
1:45:39Totally needlessly.
1:45:42But I do think that it kind of establishes this character a bit again.
1:45:49So next up, though, is where...
1:45:51I think it's next, right? It's after they escape, where they...
1:45:59After they get off that freighter, where...
1:46:02Yeah, they blast out into light speed and then meet Max Kanata.
1:46:07Well, no, but first he says to BB-8, "Let's see what you've got."
1:46:12and he projects the map and gives the speech. This to me is the point where it really, really
1:46:23hit home to me that, "Oh, I see what they're doing. They're remaking the first film, but different
1:46:27characters are in different roles." It really hit me that Han is the new Obi-Wan.
1:46:33He's standing in the same spot.
1:46:35He's literally the same room in the living Falcon where Obi-Wan gave,
1:46:41as I call it, "the speech" where he explains what the Force is,
1:46:45to the heroes who are going to fill out the rest of the trilogy.
1:46:48And Han is giving the speech and he does a better job of it.
1:46:52I mean, Alec Guinness was great, but it's like when Han says,
1:46:55you know, "It's all real." It's like, you know, "I'm fighting back tears."
1:46:59It's like, "I'm choked up."
1:47:01Yeah. Well, Harrison Ford has the benefit of knowing the cultural weight
1:47:08of what he's saying. Whereas Alec Guinness is like, "Can I do another movie about the
1:47:14bridge over the river Kwai? Because that was pretty great."
1:47:17So there's the speech on the Falcon, and I love it. I think it really works. And it adds gravity.
1:47:23And then just jump back ahead to where he dies at the end. And he dies at the hand of the Darth
1:47:28Vader character. And it's witnessed by the new heroes who are younger and-
1:47:36It's not just witness, they are incapable of interfering.
1:47:39Right.
1:47:39Or intervening, I should say.
1:47:40They're helpless, right. They're helpless, all they can do is watch.
1:47:42And, you know, it hits home for the audience this time in a way that when Obi-Wan got killed,
1:47:52I will admit when I was a kid, I remember being surprised, and I also remember being confused
1:47:57about the fact that he disappeared, and I thought, well maybe, because that's the only guy who gets
1:48:00killed by a lightsaber in that movie. And this is another one of those things where I very
1:48:04distinctly remember, you know, first, second grade arguing like whenever anybody gets hit
1:48:10with a lightsaber, do they just disappear? And it wasn't until Empire Strikes Back and you got to
1:48:16see Vader cut Luke's hand off that, you know, the no, it's just a thing that I just thought
1:48:21that was a Jedi thing because we see it even in A New Hope. The jerk at the bar gets his arm chopped
1:48:28up. Yeah, the only other guy who gets killed by a lightsaber is the guy at the cantina. And he
1:48:32Well, he doesn't die, but he gets, you know...
1:48:34Well, I think he died.
1:48:36[laughs]
1:48:38He definitely lost a lot of blood.
1:48:40[laughs]
1:48:42There should be more spurting.
1:48:44He had a very bad day.
1:48:46This is a thing, though, that I remember thinking,
1:48:48and I've always thought it, but even as a little kid,
1:48:51I really wasn't that happy with the way that Obi-Wan went down.
1:48:55And I realized what Lucas was going for,
1:48:57that he was sacrificing himself knowing that by doing this,
1:49:00this, that Luke and the others could escape on the Falcon, and that it was supposed to
1:49:06be some kind of symbolic, zen-like state that he had reached, that he was going to reach
1:49:13some kind of higher plane of existence.
1:49:14I've always loved the zen-like smile on his face.
1:49:17It bothered me, though. I was like, "Why not fight? Maybe you could beat this Darth Vader."
1:49:21He did! That's the thing. He won.
1:49:24It bothered me that he...
1:49:26But, at the end of Jedi, that's exactly how Luke wins.
1:49:31Well, I agree, but it bothered me...
1:49:34He defeats Vader and then it's just like, "Okay, look, I'm done. You have to kill me, you're gonna kill me."
1:49:41Whereas Han's sacrifice here, and letting this guy, letting Kylo Ren kill him...
1:49:47To me, it was way more believable than Obi-Wan.
1:49:51than Obi-Wan. Or not believable, but to me it was more satisfying than Obi-Wan's.
1:49:55And I know Amy disagrees. [laughter]
1:49:59But I really do think-- I can't believe you found it satisfying. I just-- I found nothing
1:50:03satisfying about it. Well, okay.
1:50:07We're not gonna-- let's not. So, Obi-Wan...
1:50:11I was surprised, too. It didn't make a lot of sense. It didn't register
1:50:15to me. Over the years I've come to kind of maybe even rationalize
1:50:19Maybe I'm like, maybe Star Wars has warped my brain enough that I'm like,
1:50:25"Now that's the framework that I see things in and I think that that kind of makes sense."
1:50:30The way Han Solo died, I think, he's got to die, right? At some point.
1:50:42Right, right. But it was just, to me it was like this whole culmination of,
1:50:46of "Oh my gosh, Star Wars is back, and oh my god, this movie is fantastic."
1:50:50And then, "Oh my god, they just killed a childhood hero."
1:50:53Like, with Obi-Wan, I was not as invested.
1:50:55- They didn't-- - I was a young kid, and I just--
1:50:57I wasn't as invested in him.
1:50:59And I just-- And, as a young kid, I was like,
1:51:01"Well, he's old, he's gonna die anyway."
1:51:03Han...
1:51:05They didn't kill Han.
1:51:08Han died...
1:51:10making a choice.
1:51:13Right? Like, he knew.
1:51:15Yeah, but I think he's helping.
1:51:16You can see the look on his face before he,
1:51:18like he's hiding behind that column.
1:51:20Also, by the way, Calaren, not very good at using the force
1:51:26because what the hell?
1:51:28He really sucks at the force.
1:51:30Like, you're letting this guy sneak up behind you?
1:51:33Like, come on, like you're an idiot.
1:51:35Anyway, that aside.
1:51:36The girl who's never heard of the force beats him.
1:51:41All right, hold on, hold that thought.
1:51:42Let's come back to that.
1:51:43Let me just finish up here.
1:51:44And we gotta get some of these other guests on the show.
1:51:46I see 'em sitting there in the Skype.
1:51:47We'll get 'em on soon.
1:51:48But I have one more sponsor to thank,
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1:54:10Great service.
1:54:11You did that without any notes.
1:54:13That was really impressive.
1:54:14I am going to be nice to you because it's the last day of the year.
1:54:19The one day of the year.
1:54:22It's his day.
1:54:23What about the fact that Han and Leia...
1:54:26Well, we're going to talk about the lightsaber fight, but here's a question.
1:54:29What about the fact that Han and Leia don't kiss?
1:54:31Is that like...
1:54:32That's like a realistic portrayal of...
1:54:34They don't, you know what, they don't say, "I love you."
1:54:38- Yeah.
1:54:39- Because you don't want--
1:54:40- There's obviously a deep affection, but they're not--
1:54:42- No, they love each other, it's fine.
1:54:45They don't, it's, you know,
1:54:50you don't need to say it at that point.
1:54:51Like, it's not a, they haven't seen each other
1:54:54for a long time.
1:54:55Their son is their primary concern, and so--
1:55:01- He's an a-hole.
1:55:02It's like I didn't want them to be apart,
1:55:04I didn't want them to have broken up,
1:55:06but I believed it, like Amy said.
1:55:09I do kind of believe that--
1:55:10- I just knew it, it just couldn't work.
1:55:12They're just both too-- - Too volatile.
1:55:14- They're both too used to being in charge.
1:55:16- Yeah. - It couldn't work.
1:55:18- Who doesn't wanna be Han Solo?
1:55:19- Who doesn't wanna be Princess Leia?
1:55:22I spent my whole life like--
1:55:24- Sure.
1:55:25- Yeah, I mean, I wanted to be Princess Leia.
1:55:26I wanted to be a combination of Princess Leia,
1:55:29Rizzo from "Grease," and Pinky Tuscadero
1:55:31from Happy Days, this is so dating me.
1:55:33- Yeah, you know what, you're not far off.
1:55:36(Stevie laughs)
1:55:38You're doing pretty good.
1:55:40- Like I really, really wanted to be her.
1:55:43- All right, so here is--
1:55:44- But I mean, you know, come on, Han's gonna screw it up.
1:55:47Han's gonna do something.
1:55:48- I believe it.
1:55:49And I thought that the--
1:55:51- But Han's gonna screw it up, and you know what?
1:55:52She's not gonna take it.
1:55:53Like that's the other thing. - Exactly.
1:55:54- She's not gonna be like, well, let Han be Han.
1:55:56She's gonna say, screw you, that's what I love about her.
1:55:59Right. I feel like if they would have like, you know, like...
1:56:02And I feel like he missed her way more than she missed him.
1:56:05I agree with that.
1:56:07Definitely. He needs her more than she needs him.
1:56:10Well, that's why he keeps running.
1:56:12Right. Right.
1:56:13She's not scared to get off that troop transport and say hi to him.
1:56:16And he's like, "Oh, God. Okay. I gotta talk to Leia."
1:56:19She doesn't want to see. Leia doesn't want to see me.
1:56:21Yeah. He's like...
1:56:23Yeah, he goes to see Maz Kanata
1:56:26to get the droid back to the Resistance
1:56:28because he's scared of facing Leia.
1:56:32Here's the last two things I want to talk about. I want to talk about
1:56:36Maz Kanata. What's her name? Tanaka? Maz? I'll just call her Maz.
1:56:40I want to talk about that scene. And then I want to talk about the lightsaber
1:56:44fight at the end. I don't care which order.
1:56:48I guess we'll go in chronological order. So we'll talk about Maz first. I felt
1:56:52like that was probably the worst scene of the movie. That it just
1:56:56felt I the potential was there and I like the whole idea of it but it just
1:57:02didn't it just didn't seem right I'm not sure why she's a CGI character well yeah
1:57:09I found her very distracting I found that character distracting because she
1:57:12just looked out of place she looked like one of the characters from the prequels
1:57:16like yeah right right and she's an amazing actress I think maybe they were
1:57:20trying to go for the Yoda thing but it was like yeah yeah she was trying to
1:57:23give like a Yoda vibe. And that actress is like tall and slender.
1:57:28Like it's a very different Yoda. I have since heard, you know, like it in the the now that I'm not afraid of
1:57:34spoilers looking into it, that that whole scene was rewritten and that the the actress who played her
1:57:40had to come in and re-record all of her lines that like the way it was originally written was different.
1:57:45um
1:57:49like to the point where at one point she says um
1:57:54you know i'm no jedi but i know i know the force
1:57:57and that apparently in earlier drafts it was more clear that she
1:58:01had the force and that um i actually just ordered the book renee i was on the
1:58:07show the previous episode of this and renee told me about this book the
1:58:11the making of star wars the force awakened so i ordered the book
1:58:14But one of the things in the book, it has all these effects shots and stuff like that, including
1:58:19some that aren't cut from the movie. But apparently one of the scenes that was cut was
1:58:23in the battle that breaks out after the... On her planet, when the TIE fighters are busting up her
1:58:31bar and everything, there's a part of the building is gonna topple and might hit Finn or something
1:58:38like that and she uses the force to like keep the blocks from hitting him.
1:58:43That would have made more sense because what is she just like a Jedi groupie?
1:58:47Like why does she know so much about it?
1:58:51Well I'm okay with her just being sensitive I guess like having all the weird force dreams
1:59:03and like being in tune with that kind of stuff.
1:59:05Well, that's part of it. The other thing I've read when I looked up who Max von Sydow's character is, this Lor San Tekka.
1:59:13I mean, who knows, because...
1:59:15It's Max von Sydow. Like, they should just rename that character.
1:59:19Well, his character is apparently, according to the Wookiepedia, is a...
1:59:24He's like a priest in the Church of the Force or something like that.
1:59:30They're not Jedi, but they're like,
1:59:32it's like another sect of good guys who use the Force.
1:59:36And I think it's similar to the way
1:59:37that these Knights of Ren aren't Sith,
1:59:40but they are bad guys who use the dark side of the Force.
1:59:44And the gist I've gotten from this is that in this,
1:59:48you know, they're broadening the view of the galaxy
1:59:51and the Force to the point where it's, you know,
1:59:53yes, there are Jedi and there are Sith,
1:59:55or there were at least, maybe the Sith are dead,
1:59:57but that they're not the only two groups
1:59:59that use the Force. I don't know. But it seemed to me like this
2:00:03Maz was clearly supposed to be somehow, and that's
2:00:07how she got the lightsaber. She's got the Force
2:00:11in some way, but
2:00:15just the way that it came out on screen just felt like, blah.
2:00:19Right, there was no explanation of it.
2:00:23Didn't really run. I did love that
2:00:27flashback scene though, flash back forward sideways,
2:00:32whatever the hell that was, like the forced dream that--
2:00:35- Right. - When she first--
2:00:37- When she first touches it, right?
2:00:39Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of secrets in there,
2:00:42like there's a lot. - Yeah.
2:00:43- There's somebody, I guess I'll put a link to it
2:00:45in the show notes, but there's probably even more,
2:00:48but somebody, God bless them, but somebody obviously
2:00:53was videotaping the whole thing on their iPhone
2:00:57and posted a whole bunch of pictures to Reddit or somewhere,
2:01:00but there's a whole bunch of stuff in there,
2:01:02including the fact that it's, you know,
2:01:05at one point when you hear her name called out,
2:01:08it's Obi-Wan Kenobi calling her name.
2:01:10- Yeah. - Yeah.
2:01:11- Yeah, that's...
2:01:13I thought that'd been said somewhere.
2:01:17So Obi-Wan Kenobi calls out "Ray,"
2:01:20and it's actually Alec Guinness's voice.
2:01:22- Right, did you, John told me this story,
2:01:24but if you, it's a great story.
2:01:25Yeah, I'm trying to remember where I heard the--
2:01:28So J.J. Abrams was at some kind of--
2:01:31Oh yeah, it was J.J. Yeah, okay.
2:01:33So it was public, so it's not like him.
2:01:35It was on stage at a Screenwriter Guild event
2:01:39for the Force Awakens, and J.J. said that they brought in--
2:01:44Who's the young Obi-Wan?
2:01:47What's his name?
2:01:48Well, the most recent one is the guy
2:01:49that did for the Clone Wars.
2:01:52Ewan McGregor.
2:01:53Ewan McGregor.
2:01:54Well, no. So the guy that did it for the Clone Wars recorded it all first.
2:01:58Yeah, so the guy who did the Clone Wars cartoon came in.
2:02:02And then he gradually got replaced and he's like, "Okay, well."
2:02:04They got Ewan McGregor and so they were going to throw out the Clone Wars guy's thing and use Ewan McGregor's.
2:02:09And then some of the sound guys found an old clip of Alec Guinness where he said, I forget what the word was.
2:02:19Afraid.
2:02:20Afraid, right. He was saying the word afraid.
2:02:22I don't even think that's from Star Wars. God knows where it's from.
2:02:27Yeah, who knows? But they found Alec Guinness saying the word "afraid" and clipped it, and that just the "ray" part of the word "afraid"
2:02:35not only was Alec Guinness' voice, like JJ said, it was exactly the way I would have...
2:02:40If I could direct him to say it, it was exactly the way I would tell him to say "ray."
2:02:44Didn't they mix it with...
2:02:46Yeah, so they mixed it with you and the filmmakers.
2:02:48Which isn't right.
2:02:50Well, it could get even a little bit. They had Frank Ellis come in to do the Yoda bit at the beginning.
2:02:56What was the Yoda bit?
2:02:59The, like, right when she starts tripping balls, she says something about, she hears Yoda say something about like, "Oh, it binds us, it surrounds us."
2:03:11Oh, right, right.
2:03:12Like that kind of like forced, like the beginning of the forced speech that she, that Yoda gives.
2:03:19So here's a question. Do you think that the like in the next movie now that Luke is back
2:03:25Do you think Luke can still communicate with obi-wan and Yoda or is there like a like a time limit?
2:03:33You know like like after you're a J
2:03:35Even if you know the trick that that those guys know where you can still communicate with other Jedi after you died
2:03:40Is there like?
2:03:42You know as the years go on it gets weaker and weaker, you know
2:03:45like a battery running out or something.
2:03:47I think we're most likely to find Luke broken.
2:03:51I think he's a terrible alcoholic.
2:03:53Yeah.
2:03:54I do. I think he's not that amount of...
2:03:56And it's not alcoholic, it's like just a meditation holic.
2:04:00There's like a lot of Jedi yoga, whatever he does.
2:04:03Jedi yoga.
2:04:04No, yeah.
2:04:06No, I think he's broken.
2:04:10I mean, you can tell by that last scene where he's like...
2:04:13Well, first of all, he just runs away and is disengaged.
2:04:16Yeah, and it seemed like they could really use his help.
2:04:21Yeah, you think? A little bit. And he's just not involved.
2:04:24And I think Ray and him are going to rehabilitate each other in some kind of way.
2:04:35He's going to be the Yoda.
2:04:37Yeah, he's going to be the Yoda, and that's going to give him...
2:04:40I don't know. I kind of think that each one of these movies is going to kill off one of the old people.
2:04:49We've had Han go. Leia or Luke is going to be next.
2:04:54And then whoever's left will be in the last one.
2:04:57You can't kill Leia.
2:04:58You can't kill... I don't think you can kill Luke.
2:05:01Oh, you gotta kill Luke.
2:05:02Well, you can't kill him in the next movie.
2:05:04I'll kill Luke right now.
2:05:05What about... All right.
2:05:08You know who you can't kill?
2:05:09Han Solo is who you can't kill.
2:05:11Yeah, exactly.
2:05:13And it already happened.
2:05:14What about the fact that they're only
2:05:17going to make three of these?
2:05:18I know there's these offshoot movies,
2:05:21there's going to be a Boba Fett movie.
2:05:23Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:05:23There's going to be a Boba Fett movie?
2:05:25There's also supposed to be a young Han Solo movie, which
2:05:28I think sounds like a disaster.
2:05:29I think--
2:05:30Just don't do it.
2:05:31No, because there's going to be--
2:05:33Yeah, I know.
2:05:33You can't even get River Phoenix to play him.
2:05:35[LAUGHTER]
2:05:38Tasteless.
2:05:39Well, I'm just saying, you can't get him.
2:05:41He's not available.
2:05:44He's like Wes Dantilly.
2:05:47His agent ain't picking up the phone.
2:05:49He's a weird brother.
2:05:49But what about the fact that they're only
2:05:52going to make three?
2:05:53There's episodes seven, eight, and nine.
2:05:55They're only going to make three.
2:05:56He was available, but they decided
2:05:59for the interest of drama and secrecy
2:06:03that Luke literally only appears in like 30 sec the last 30 seconds of the film and doesn't have a line
2:06:09was it a wasted opportunity no no no they they used him exactly how they wanted to use him
2:06:14i i think and they i think they used him well he is the
2:06:19again getting back to the meta thing uh luke skywalker has been our hero in the
2:06:26I mean, effectively, in the three movies that mattered, like the original trilogy.
2:06:31And this movie is about resetting everything and getting us back to, you know, to where we were,
2:06:43to re-finding what it is to be Star Wars fans. That's why R2 wakes up.
2:06:48And then we have like a five-minute denouement.
2:06:53And then we have Ray, our new hero, handing the baton.
2:06:58I know I've said this before to you, John, but literally it's a baton.
2:07:03It's like you can't make it more obvious, trying to hand the baton back to Luke.
2:07:08And I think that that's just a visual
2:07:14storytelling, very metaphorical,
2:07:19you know, trying to bring back, like, it's a passing of the baton from the old guard to the new guard, but it's flipped on its head kind of idea.
2:07:27You guys are so optimistic. I think Mark Hamill just needs more acting lessons. They were like, "Just turn around at the end and that's good."
2:07:35He actually works a lot. He's just like a lot of voice work. He's on TV and stuff.
2:07:40He's the Joker in the Batman animated series. And the video games.
2:07:47And he does a lot of voice work.
2:07:49I think he looks good.
2:07:50Sure, sure.
2:07:51Oh, he looks amazing!
2:07:52I'm not saying he's ugly, I'm saying he's a bad actor.
2:07:55He's always been a bad actor.
2:07:57Right!
2:07:58Right.
2:07:59And now Santa's a liar.
2:08:00You know what?
2:08:01A bad actor is...
2:08:03He's been...
2:08:07I don't know, a gross actor.
2:08:09And I mean gross, not in like disgusting, but in like a...
2:08:11Cigarette butts.
2:08:13He likes...
2:08:16He over-emphasizes. It's a very stage-act-y kind of thing that he does.
2:08:22Like the Joker. Like the Joker in the Batman the Animated Series.
2:08:26Anyway, I don't think he needed the line. I think they used him exactly the way they wanted him to be used.
2:08:34But using him this way means we'll never get to see Han and Luke together again.
2:08:38Oh my god.
2:08:39That's okay.
2:08:40Why would you say this to me?
2:08:42You know what? I didn't like them together anyway.
2:08:45I'm not gonna get upset. I'm not wasting my time.
2:08:48Wait. So let's go back and try to figure out when was the last time we saw the theater? On Endor, right?
2:08:55Yeah, Endor. They definitely-
2:08:56In the Ewok village.
2:08:57Right, in the Ewok village.
2:08:59How do you guys remember, like, all the planets? Like, I confuse the Wookie Planet with that one Led Zeppelin album.
2:09:07Like, I'm not-
2:09:08Kashyyyk and-
2:09:09I get them confused all the time. I'm like, what's your favorite? Let's have an album
2:09:14Cassique and he's like, that's the Wookie planet. I really love the movies. And but
2:09:24I don't have like an encyclopedia like Jonas has encyclopedias of this stuff.
2:09:28That was actually another one of my complaints though about Maz's the whole thing on Maz's
2:09:32planet was that her planet. That's what I don't remember.
2:09:36I don't even--uh, think it starts with an "I"?
2:09:39Yeah, and it looked too much--
2:09:40No, maybe not.
2:09:41It looked too much like the planet where the Resistance was headquartered.
2:09:45You know, it's just sort of like a Yavin 4-looking forest and rivers and stuff like that.
2:09:52Well, I've always kind of made fun of Star Wars for having, like, uh...
2:09:58One planet is all ice, one planet is all desert, and like, one planet is all--
2:10:02and it's like, you gotta run out of those pretty quick.
2:10:06Even Jonas is like, "Why don't all these desert people move?"
2:10:09That is a smart kid.
2:10:13Yeah.
2:10:13There are lush planets.
2:10:14Like the Wookie planet is lush.
2:10:16Yeah.
2:10:18Kashmir.
2:10:19Don't know.
2:10:19Kashmir?
2:10:20It's my favorite.
2:10:22All right.
2:10:22Indian prophets.
2:10:23I do want to, you, we touched on it before.
2:10:25I want to talk about the lightsaber fight at the end of the movie.
2:10:28Yeah.
2:10:28We got to talk about the bad guys at some point too.
2:10:30Well, yeah.
2:10:31Yeah.
2:10:31Or...
2:10:32I thought the lightsaber fight was incredibly well done.
2:10:34And you can quibble about the fact that, you know, well, how would Ray hold her own without any training?
2:10:41You know, but you know, to me, it's just she's super strong in the force.
2:10:44And that Kylo Ren is not really that good.
2:10:48So Kylo Ren sucks at pretty much everything, which, Annie, I feel your pain. I really do.
2:10:56He sucks at life. He's bad. And you know what, like, okay, you know, bad thing aside, I hate the way,
2:11:04Like, he's not good enough to be Han and Leia's son.
2:11:07Like, he's just not good enough.
2:11:09Like, how could they ever...
2:11:10But it's like, I guess it's like Han says, you know, there's too much Vader in him.
2:11:14Yeah.
2:11:15You know, or too much Anakin, really.
2:11:17Yeah, well, probably Han didn't help either.
2:11:20But there's too much Anakin in him.
2:11:22So...
2:11:23A, he got shot by Chewbacca.
2:11:27Uncle Chewie shot him, but good.
2:11:30Uncle Chewie.
2:11:33Yeah, because if you think about it though, you have to think that when he was a kid, you know, until he went bad...
2:11:39There's no way Chewie was... Chewbacca didn't change his diapers, right?
2:11:42And then he straight out called out, "Choose the guy."
2:11:46Oh, what a moral dilemma for Chewie.
2:11:52Not really, Chewbacca, he's like, "Screw you." I'm putting up t-shirts.
2:11:56"I'm taking you down, I'm taking you down, you whiny bastard." Oh, now that hand's out of the picture?
2:12:02Boom! Finally get to kill you.
2:12:04I really liked the lightsaber fight. I thought that it was what the lightsaber fights were
2:12:10supposed to be like, which is like a good sword fight in a kung fu movie.
2:12:14I love both of them.
2:12:15And not force-powered people doing 40-foot triple Lindsey jumps in the air,
2:12:23and doing all this fantastic stuff. It's just a couple of people chasing in tight quarters,
2:12:30swinging lightsabers at each other.
2:12:32Yeah, I like the idea that you can be trained and be competent with a lightsaber.
2:12:37But if some random dude, like Finn, picks up a lightsaber, and he's, you know, he's got some kind of...
2:12:46He's a soldier, and we've seen the soldiers use that crazy baton thing earlier in the movie.
2:12:53He's, you know, he's not incompetent.
2:12:56I like that he can hold his own for a few minutes.
2:13:00I like the idea that maybe the stormtroopers, as part of their standard training,
2:13:04are trained specifically just like anti-Luke Skywalker.
2:13:08We don't even know where this Luke Skywalker is, but if he comes back, we want you to have some training
2:13:12against a guy using a lightsaber.
2:13:16So I've got the Force Awakens visual dictionary
2:13:20thing here. Did you notice that the guy
2:13:24the baton, like he drops his gun but he's holding a shield at the same time. It's
2:13:29like basically riot gear and he starts beating on him with his riot gear baton
2:13:36kind of thing. So yeah, like I'm totally cool with the idea that like a storm
2:13:41trooper can have some kind of basic training and he's not, he's actually not
2:13:46good. He gets kind of destroyed and like Halloween is definitely playing with it.
2:13:50But that's what makes it amazing because you're like, let her have it. Let her have it.
2:13:53Exactly.
2:13:53Because you know that she's gonna kick ass with that.
2:13:55And he manages to...
2:13:56So here's the thing, he hits Kaluen in the shoulder and then that's it.
2:14:00Like, the lightsaber goes flying after that, like Kalu is...
2:14:04What kind of piece of shit dude with the Force gets hit by an old stormtrooper with a lightsaber?
2:14:09Well, he had been hit by Uncle Chewie, had taken a chunk out of him.
2:14:13Yeah, he was bleeding.
2:14:16But he's also an arrogant, angry...
2:14:18He's not good. He's not... he's just not... he's...
2:14:22He's not competent. He's not competent. And he knows he's not competent, which is, I think, driving character. It's bad.
2:14:34Alright, we gotta wrap it up soon.
2:14:39What are you talking about? It's only two hours.
2:14:41Well, I don't know. We might have to cut some of this special guest. But we gotta talk about this supreme leader Snoke.
2:14:46Oh, the Snoke. It didn't make any sense. Why did it look like Gollum?
2:14:50And that was another like CGI distracting thing that I thought didn't fit in with the whole movie.
2:14:56That was, that is my least favorite thing.
2:14:59And is he like the Wizard of Oz? Like, is he a projection? Like, is that what it is?
2:15:04Like, I have no idea.
2:15:05Yeah, he's a hologram and he's bigger than he is actually.
2:15:07And really he's like a little worm.
2:15:08Well, we don't know how big he is. Is he human size? Is he like Yoda size? Or is he actually like nine feet tall or something?
2:15:15or something.
2:15:16I think I've heard somebody say that he's normal size.
2:15:21But he's obviously –
2:15:22That could have been like an ILM girl.
2:15:23That could have been like, no.
2:15:25What you're supposed to get out of it though is that like hologram technology has improved
2:15:29in the last 30 years such that he looks like he's actually in the room 40 feet tall in
2:15:35the first time we see him where he's talking to Kylo Ren and General Hux or Admiral Hux,
2:15:41whatever his title is.
2:15:43General Hux.
2:15:45And the way that it looks like he's there,
2:15:48and I had a bad, I thought, oh my God,
2:15:50are they trying to tell me that this guy is 40 feet tall?
2:15:52'Cause that's ridiculous.
2:15:54And then when he disappeared, it was like, oh, I get it.
2:15:56It's just that hologram technology has gotten high def.
2:15:59- He's just on a big screen.
2:16:02I don't like that guy, I don't like the way he looks.
2:16:05I don't know why you would make him CG.
2:16:07- He doesn't even look Star Wars-y to me.
2:16:09Like he didn't look right.
2:16:11I guess maybe I am influenced by the fact
2:16:14that he does look like Gollum, but like, it just, it totally didn't fit.
2:16:18It just, again, it's distracting.
2:16:20I don't understand him at all.
2:16:22They keep going back to him.
2:16:24Right.
2:16:24It's not like they had like one scene and it's like, okay, I can
2:16:27forget that and keep moving.
2:16:28They just, they just keep showing him over and over.
2:16:32I don't even like his face.
2:16:32And it's always, it's always like a meeting, like, uh, we screwed everything
2:16:36up, what do you think we should do?
2:16:38Right, I can't think of everything.
2:16:40I don't know, you're incompetent boobs.
2:16:42- It's like blow up on the planet.
2:16:44Like forget it, I'll find somebody better.
2:16:45Like, yeah.
2:16:47- Even as like John said, his name isn't good.
2:16:49It's like, that's like your kids, like Teddy bear Snoke.
2:16:52You know, like it's not. - The worst.
2:16:54- And he's the Snoke?
2:16:55- Supreme leader Snoke.
2:16:57- Supreme leader Snoke.
2:16:59- Stupid, I really,
2:17:01and it left me thinking, you know, 'cause I'm a moron.
2:17:05So it left me thinking about
2:17:07a totally inconsequential plot point.
2:17:09Like I'm missing the movie 'cause I'm like,
2:17:11what's going on here?
2:17:12But most of the other new names are good. Like, "Ray" is a good name. "Fin" is a great name.
2:17:16"Kylo Ren" is a good name.
2:17:17"Kylo Ren" is a good name.
2:17:18"In the Knights of Ren."
2:17:19Well, so first of all, "Kylo Ren," his actual first name before he went bad is "Ben."
2:17:29Oh, right.
2:17:30So "Ben," "Ren," "Ray," things get way too...
2:17:36I forgot that he was...
2:17:37It's like everything's a little bit too close for...
2:17:40That's a good moment though, when Han Solo calls out, "Ben, man, that's..."
2:17:44Yeah, but you can hear it.
2:17:46I rolled my eyes.
2:17:47It's because it's the beginning of the end, as far as you're concerned.
2:17:53You're like, "Screw this movie."
2:17:55You rolled your eyes because you were busy pouring petrol into your Coke bottle
2:18:01and trying to light the fuse.
2:18:03I know.
2:18:03I should have brought a cyanide pill to this movie.
2:18:06I was not.
2:18:06No.
2:18:07I didn't know.
2:18:08Firebomb, let's just stick with a firebomb.
2:18:10It's okay.
2:18:11All right, what else do we want to talk about
2:18:13before we wrap up?
2:18:14So the actual lightsaber battle between Rey and--
2:18:17It's very important to me.
2:18:19All right, here's a question.
2:18:22So Rey--
2:18:23In the next movies, does Rey build her own lightsaber,
2:18:26'cause that's what Jedis do, or does she continue
2:18:28to use Anakins? No, she gets the blue one.
2:18:29She just uses Anakins. Yeah.
2:18:31She loses it at the end of the second movie.
2:18:34I think that, I think she uses that one.
2:18:38I think it's obviously spoke to her, you know?
2:18:41- Yeah, I think so, but I think she's gonna lose it
2:18:44at the end of the second movie. - Maybe she gets her hand
2:18:45cut off in the next movie and loses a lightsaber.
2:18:47- I think she will-- - Too much.
2:18:49- I am kind of surprised that she didn't cut--
2:18:52- Too much, I'll have to build one.
2:18:53- I thought she might have cut Kylo Ren's hand off.
2:18:56- I don't know, so what else do we wanna talk about?
2:19:00Do you think Rey is gonna have her own lightsaber
2:19:02or do you think she's gonna continue to use Luke?
2:19:03- I think she's gonna lose it at the midpoint.
2:19:07She's going to lose it next episode.
2:19:09Because they've got to sell more lightsabers.
2:19:11Well, okay, there's that.
2:19:14Yeah, sure, why not?
2:19:16That's the cynical way of looking at it.
2:19:18That's fine, maybe.
2:19:20Just in terms of if we continue with kind of the mirroring aspect of what we've seen,
2:19:26she's going to have to lose it, right?
2:19:28Let's talk about Carrie Fisher.
2:19:30How many fucks does she not give?
2:19:32I love her press tours for this.
2:19:34- I...
2:19:35- She gives zero fucks about anything.
2:19:39She brings her janky little dog.
2:19:42- I have never wanted to have sex with Carrie Fisher
2:19:44more than right now.
2:19:46- More than like slave Leia.
2:19:47- No, no, no, yeah, exactly.
2:19:49Like kid, you know, young boy kind of thing.
2:19:52Like, holy shit, look at that.
2:19:53That's like a woman.
2:19:54Carrie Fisher is just the best.
2:19:58She's amazing.
2:19:59- She's really, really good.
2:20:01- She seems to be having fun.
2:20:03Yeah, like she's having fun and she's just saying all the shit she's wanted to say.
2:20:07She's kicking so much ass, it's hilarious.
2:20:10Right, and then she had those tweets about, because it is true, like she got judged on her looks.
2:20:15And I think, I thought she looked amazing.
2:20:18If anything, a little too like Botoxed, which only to me I noticed because they let Han Solo be all like grizzled and he's way older, right?
2:20:27He's older than you.
2:20:28Yeah, he's cool.
2:20:28Yeah, yeah.
2:20:29- Yeah, she was 19 and 77. - They let him be grizzled,
2:20:31and yet, she's got a lot of Botox.
2:20:35And I just don't think that's fair.
2:20:36And I think that if it would've been up to Carrie Fisher,
2:20:38she would've been like, "Fuck you, I'm not losing weight.
2:20:40"Fuck you, I'm not doing any Botox."
2:20:42- I don't, I just like it.
2:20:44- But she looks amazing!
2:20:45- Yeah, I have a lot of admiration for her.
2:20:46- Oh, guess what?
2:20:47She doesn't look 24 anymore.
2:20:49I get surprised. - Yeah, it's like,
2:20:50what do you expect?
2:20:52- You know what, I feel like she feels and sounds
2:20:57and looks like old Princess Leia in a way that has in for doesn't inhabit.
2:21:06What about in the in the goofy kingdom of the Crystal Skull?
2:21:11Exactly.
2:21:12In the Jones movie, the actress who plays Marion to me is like unrecognizable.
2:21:16Yeah.
2:21:16It's like and it doesn't feel like Marion at all. It doesn't feel like like somehow
2:21:23there it just every everything from just the way she looks to the interaction that the two characters have does not feel like
2:21:29Indy and Marion back together again, it just feels hollow and
2:21:34Pantomime'd in a way that Leia feels like wow, that's that's 30 years older Princess Leia. Yeah, and she's in charge
2:21:43right right kicking some ass and
2:21:48Han Solo is still way over stretching himself.
2:21:51Right, he's still a little bit of a fuck up, you know what I mean?
2:21:54He's always a fuck up.
2:21:55But yeah, at this point, he's beat.
2:21:58Yeah, but it's like, sadder.
2:21:59It's sadder because he's old.
2:22:01Well yeah, I mean, the gang's the truth.
2:22:03Tell them, kids, it's nobody else to screw over in the galaxy.
2:22:07Like, you're done.
2:22:09There's nowhere to hide.
2:22:11Leia, on the other hand, is kind of on the top of the game.
2:22:17top of the game. She's like, "No, look, I'm cool, come, I got my shit together. I'm
2:22:20like taking care of business. I'm landing on the battleship or the transport right
2:22:27after battle." Like, yeah, she's badass. She makes a bit more sense to me than
2:22:33Han does. Although I can see Han being the kind of stubborn idiot that would still
2:22:38be getting himself into those kind of situations in his 70s.
2:22:41Right. So he's got like a self-destructive streak.
2:22:45Yeah, well, how'd that work out, Amy?
2:22:48Shut up. We're not going to talk about it. You know what, though? This felt so cathartic to get it out.
2:22:57Oh, that's good.
2:22:58Okay.
2:22:59Because I can't talk about it on Twitter. And like everybody is like, Star Wars is so amazing. And I just want to scream, screw you, Han Solo stuff.
2:23:07Yeah, give it a week or something.
2:23:08So will you will you go see the movie again now?
2:23:12I feel like maybe I need another week, but it's it's mellowing
2:23:16I texted my best friend like when it happened and I was like, did you see it? And thank God she said yes
2:23:22And I was like, oh my god, I'm inconsolable
2:23:24And she was like, you know what you should do. You should watch Empire
2:23:28That'll make you feel better
2:23:29If you watch Empire Strikes Back and she's like and just know that he really wanted out like he he's he's always wanted out
2:23:36and so like he's happy now and
2:23:39That helped. It helped a little.
2:23:41Guy, did you see it in 3D?
2:23:43Or did you see it in 2D?
2:23:45I did. All three times.
2:23:47Really? I see. I don't like 3D, so I haven't seen it in 2D yet.
2:23:50But I heard that 3D for this was pretty good.
2:23:52It wasn't like typical dark.
2:23:54Now that I've seen it twice, I'm thinking maybe I will see it if I go see it a third time.
2:23:58Well, I will. But I think maybe I should go see it in 3D while it's in theaters.
2:24:03Oh, definitely.
2:24:05Do not do 3D like at home.
2:24:07I'm gonna go try to see it in 2D.
2:24:09Yeah, you should see it. You know what? I'd be interested to hear if you saw it in 2D.
2:24:13Because then I read that 3D is not bad.
2:24:15Like we have seen so many bad movies in 3D.
2:24:17Oh no, this is a good one. They do.
2:24:19But then I've heard too that in 3D wasn't that different.
2:24:23That it wasn't like...
2:24:25I believe that because it's not over the top.
2:24:27In your face, literally.
2:24:29There's maybe one shot that I think is a bit extreme.
2:24:33And there's like a starter-- so this is a shot of a starter store on the screen, like an establishing shot, and in 3D it's like in your face, right up there.
2:24:48I don't know what it looks like in 2D.
2:24:50Well, maybe I'll try it. We'll let the healing begin. Maybe I'm ready.
2:24:54Yeah, so yeah, I do plan to see it in 2D.
2:24:57But, you know, you can't, I mean, you gotta go see it in 3D when it's in the cinema.
2:25:02Because they did not phone this in, I think it's a, you know, they did a good job.
2:25:07And like you, I am not a 3D guy.
2:25:11Any final thoughts that you want to say before we wrap things up, Dan?
2:25:14I'm sorry, Amy, that Han Solo had to die.
2:25:18I appreciate your sympathy.
2:25:21Alright, here's a question. Do you think Chewbacca is going to remain a major character?
2:25:25character or does he drop down to be like a peripheral character?
2:25:28No, Chewbacca is gonna be the... he's attached to Rey now.
2:25:33Right.
2:25:34Oh yeah, yeah.
2:25:36Rey and Chewie.
2:25:37Even if she trains, I think Rey and Chewie keep the Millennium Falcon.
2:25:41And I think he's gonna have a special affinity for her because he knew that Han had an affinity for her.
2:25:46Yeah.
2:25:46Oh, it's gonna be nice. Oh, see, don't...
2:25:49That's too bad. Chewie kind of likes you.
2:25:51In a sense, the thing that occurred to me is that the job offer that Han offered her to come on, you know,
2:25:58come on board the Millennium Falcon with Chewie, she ended up taking it, you know, Han's just not there to...
2:26:04How great is it though that she like turned it down at first? I love her.
2:26:08Yeah, she's awesome. Well, she's got to get back to Jakku. And I love that Finn's like, "Why? Why do people want to go back to that planet?
2:26:20What is going on with you?
2:26:21Do you know what? We didn't even talk about like my one of my
2:26:26favorite parts where she's like, stop grabbing my hand. Yeah, I
2:26:30love it. I loved that part. I thought that was so great. Yeah.
2:26:34Stop. Why are you grabbing my hand? I loved her like
2:26:37independent streak of Princess Leia, but yet she's got like,
2:26:42the mechanical skills that are usually reserved for men in
2:26:45these movies. Like, so fantastic.
2:26:48I have to admit, JJ Abrams totally suckered me in with the first scene where her and Finn meet in the market.
2:26:55And the guys who were told, "Hey, steal that droid from her," are attacking her.
2:27:01And you cut to Finn, and you see, it's like, this is where, like, in the moment, Finn, you can say he's out for himself, but he's gonna help her.
2:27:08Right.
2:27:09And then, I was totally like, "Oh, I get it."
2:27:11And he doesn't know it from Abram. It's just like, "Okay, this girl's in trouble. I'm gonna..."
2:27:15And instead, I was totally suckered in, as J.J. Abrams intended me to be,
2:27:21that thinking he's going to rescue her, and the next thing you know, he's like,
2:27:24"Oh." And she's kicked all three guys' asses.
2:27:28And she's unscathed, and it's like, "Oh, this is a different type of movie."
2:27:33And then BB-8's like, "Hey, that guy's got the jacket."
2:27:40Yeah.
2:27:40Yeah, he's like, "Oh, wait, what?"
2:27:43You're right. You're right. Because then immediately, not only are you surprised that she didn't need to be rescued, but immediately she's like, got him on his ass and is like, give us back the jacket.
2:27:53The next target. Yeah. And BB-8 keeps electrocuting him.
2:28:03I don't know. So great. Such a great female character. And it never felt gratuitous. Like it never felt like, okay, now we're doing something, you know, so the girls won't complain. Like, truly a great character.
2:28:14No, no, none of that at all. Yeah. Not even like, there's not sexualized. There's not even-
2:28:21No, no.
2:28:21There's like, like, mild romance, but not even like-
2:28:25Right, right.
2:28:26Yeah. Star Wars-y.
2:28:27Star Wars-y. Very Star Wars-y.
2:28:29Yeah, but Star Wars he had I mean they kept it to a kiss but
2:28:33Yeah, even less than the original show was I'd say yeah. Yeah
2:28:37It makes me wanna we should have more children and like have a girl because I just want her to see this movie
2:28:43Okay. Oh wait. Sorry, not me
2:28:46All right guy
2:28:50Thank you for doing this my apologies to the kick especially guess who did not we're gonna have to cut it short
2:28:56So my apologies to everybody waiting in the green room. Yeah. Peace Ben Thompson. I hope they're watching our child
2:29:03child.
2:29:03(laughing)