The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► I have a bit of a cold. Can you hear it?

00:00:03 ◼   ► Just when you sniffle. What kind of cold you got?

00:00:06 ◼   ► I got the good kind. I got the kind that I don't feel like—my whole body doesn't

00:00:10 ◼   ► feel sick. I only feel sick from the neck up. I feel like—

00:00:14 ◼   ► Oh, that's a good cold.

00:00:15 ◼   ► No, it's a good cold. I don't feel—

00:00:16 ◼   ► I hate a lung cold.

00:00:18 ◼   ► No, it's not a lung cold. I feel like my head is a prop in a Nickelodeon TV show.

00:00:25 ◼   ► [laughs]

00:00:26 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Right?

00:00:28 ◼   ► Uh-huh, right just take it down from the shelf and snap it on and if you say the code word then this you know

00:00:34 ◼   ► Then all the goop is gonna is gonna come gush it out. Oh

00:00:36 ◼   ► God that was weird that guy that guy seemed to like that goop a little too much

00:00:41 ◼   ► Wasn't there some cute girl over the music career that was on there

00:00:46 ◼   ► My sister used to watch that show so the answer therefore I used to watch that show because

00:00:56 ◼   ► What else are you gonna do when someone else in your family with one TV set is watching a show?

00:01:01 ◼   ► That you don't even enjoy and that you're gonna sit there and comment about how you don't enjoy it every single day during the half

00:01:07 ◼   ► Hour that it's on there is nothing else in the universe you could do during that time than to sit there and complain about it

00:01:13 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. It's like you're chained together because there's times when you're gonna watch your baseball or whatever and she's gonna be moaning and so you could always

00:01:21 ◼   ► Cause a reaction similar to that when you watch it

00:01:25 ◼   ► Or as I understand I'm an only child as you know, but you can also hit her I understand

00:01:30 ◼   ► I wish I was an only child

00:01:32 ◼   ► Mmm, I you know, I never looked back John. I gotta tell you the truth

00:01:35 ◼   ► There's you know, I few things get under my skin the way the phrase just the one gets under my skin

00:01:42 ◼   ► I don't know why that bother me bothers me so much

00:01:45 ◼   ► But it really really bugs me and and I as an only child my daughter or my wife is the youngest of seven

00:01:52 ◼   ► so she, you know...

00:01:54 ◼   ► That's close to being an only child.

00:01:56 ◼   ► It is.

00:01:57 ◼   ► And when you're the youngest, you're very, you, well, I think there's really only one

00:02:00 ◼   ► only child in a seven-child family, and that's the oldest.

00:02:03 ◼   ► They take a thousand pictures of that kid, they take 500 pictures of the next kid, and

00:02:07 ◼   ► you can do the math.

00:02:08 ◼   ► There's one picture of my daughter playing, or my wife playing a puddle, and that's about

00:02:11 ◼   ► it.

00:02:12 ◼   ► I think there's one of her, like, getting a broken arm set in the garage or something

00:02:16 ◼   ► like that.

00:02:17 ◼   ► They have a copy of her...

00:02:18 ◼   ► I like it.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Fine, that's...

00:02:20 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:02:21 ◼   ► It just says, "Madeline, 1978." But it's all rubbed off.

00:02:27 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:02:28 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Just a broken wrist.

00:02:30 ◼   ► But you're doing well. You sound great for a sick man. Now, you seem like a man who's

00:02:33 ◼   ► not afraid to tweak his body with chemicals. What do you take for that? You do a Sudafed,

00:02:40 ◼   ► you go to the pharmacy. Now here, if we want to get Sudafed, the real thing, the stuff

00:02:44 ◼   ► that really works, you gotta go—I guess it's federal. Do you have to go to the pharmacy

00:02:49 ◼   ► and plop down your license?

00:02:50 ◼   ► I have honestly given up on legitimate Sudafed. I don't know that we have any. We might

00:02:55 ◼   ► have some stashed away somewhere. I used to. I used to always suffer and take nothing.

00:03:00 ◼   ► And then Amy would tell me, "You're an idiot. You're all stuffed up. You've got

00:03:04 ◼   ► to take some Sudafed." And then I would take some Sudafed, and then I would realize,

00:03:07 ◼   ► you know, this is a—here's a medicine that actually does what it's supposed to

00:03:12 ◼   ► do. But it really is—I know you've—this is one of your recurring bits. But the way,

00:03:19 ◼   ► you know, the hoops you have to jump through now to buy Sudafed in the United States are

00:03:24 ◼   ► so absurd that I…

00:03:25 ◼   ► I didn't realize that was a bit. I apologize.

00:03:27 ◼   ► No, not even a bit, but it's…

00:03:28 ◼   ► It's very frustrating.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's, you know, it's something that actually worked. It works.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Because, you know, people used to walk in there in the days when I would enjoy ephedrine.

00:03:39 ◼   ► It used to be you could walk in there. The ephedrine that I used to get, the really good

00:03:42 ◼   ► stuff, the unadulterated stuff that I would buy for band practice in the '80s, you get

00:03:47 ◼   ► bottle of like, I think, 50 for $3 American. So you can get a malt liquor and 50 ephedrine

00:03:53 ◼   ► for less than $5. So, you know, that's where I come from. So people would go in there and

00:03:58 ◼   ► these low-level doofuses would go in and steal packages and packages of Sudafed and then

00:04:03 ◼   ► I guess make a small amount of meth. My theory on this is that it is to stop illegal drug

00:04:08 ◼   ► production, I believe. But, you know, you watch mob movies. I don't think that's how

00:04:12 ◼   ► you do it. You want a Lufthansa-level heist, you're not going to go to the Walgreens four

00:04:16 ◼   ► times like you're gonna think bigger I think you have hijacked a truck you

00:04:19 ◼   ► don't stick something into your gang jacket and walk out yeah I don't

00:04:23 ◼   ► understand why it can't just be a reasonable limit you know that you could

00:04:27 ◼   ► buy I don't know 24 capsules in a single transaction at the counter because if

00:04:34 ◼   ► you know if it was some kind of reasonable limit like that then how would

00:04:37 ◼   ► you possibly amass large-scale amounts of this stuff it wouldn't be worth it I

00:04:40 ◼   ► mean you'd have to you know what if you just hop around town to every single

00:04:44 ◼   ► Walgreens that you would you know picking up 24 at a time that that what

00:04:50 ◼   ► by the end of the day you'd end up with I don't know you know 140 capsules you

00:04:54 ◼   ► have a sense of how much meth you could make on a day like that I don't know I'm

00:04:58 ◼   ► guessing not like a lot even if you have like a big bathtub and the right

00:05:01 ◼   ► chemicals I bet you can't make a ton of meth with that much cold medicine yeah I

00:05:04 ◼   ► just don't get it I feel like it's an overreaction and I've never I personally

00:05:09 ◼   ► have never enjoyed Sudafed and I know I guess I feel that way about a lot of

00:05:13 ◼   ► pharmacological you let go in the other direction yeah I like you like something

00:05:20 ◼   ► that calms the fella down yeah exactly exactly but I don't need a cold like

00:05:24 ◼   ► this I don't I don't need anything no suit you don't you ever do the Theraflu

00:05:29 ◼   ► I've tried crap like that never doesn't anything mmm-hmm

00:05:33 ◼   ► Theraflu and Imodium man that's what keeps this country running hey I would

00:05:39 ◼   ► I would get so much less accomplished in the aggregate without those two things

00:05:42 ◼   ► I'm not saying take them at once unless you're going to drink a lot of water.

00:05:46 ◼   ► But it's nice, you know, it's like Nietzsche says, it's nice to know it's there.

00:05:51 ◼   ► Imodium is one of the best names.

00:05:54 ◼   ► God, it's the best.

00:05:55 ◼   ► What a name they came up with.

00:05:56 ◼   ► Imodium.

00:05:57 ◼   ► What would you have called it?

00:05:59 ◼   ► I don't know, but somehow it connotes what it does without being gross.

00:06:03 ◼   ► And you know that that's what the meeting was.

00:06:06 ◼   ► That somebody at the meeting, they said, "Look, nobody's getting up from this table until

00:06:10 ◼   ► we come up with a name for this thing."

00:06:12 ◼   ► Right? We know it works. The boys in the lab have shown that it works.

00:06:16 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:06:17 ◼   ► Yeah, the pointy-headed guy from the lab is like, "Well, it has to end with oedium for legal reasons."

00:06:24 ◼   ► And they're like, "Yeah, but I want people to get a sense that it works immediately."

00:06:28 ◼   ► "Wait a minute. Let's go to the whiteboard. Immediate oed..."

00:06:33 ◼   ► And like, I don't know, impacted?

00:06:36 ◼   ► Oh, sure. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

00:06:38 ◼   ► The thing is, oedium is like beer. You know, they say you only rent beer.

00:06:41 ◼   ► beer? Immobile. You'll you pay for a emodium a couple days later. I don't want to derail your

00:06:46 ◼   ► show, but just so you know, if you take a lot of emodium, like a therapeutic dose,

00:06:49 ◼   ► it doesn't mean it goes away. You know what I mean? It's like you're basically, you're sweeping

00:06:55 ◼   ► that detritus under the rug and that rug will eventually get full. It's probably kind of gross.

00:07:00 ◼   ► I'm also, I also would like to, I don't want to derail your show, but I would like to thank you

00:07:04 ◼   ► also for first of all making me really want, what's the name of that drink? Henry Box Brown.

00:07:10 ◼   ► Oh my god. That sounds so good. And also, I'm just very grateful that you have taught

00:07:17 ◼   ► me about the existence of Mr. Henry Box Brown.

00:07:19 ◼   ► Oh, isn't that a great story? Isn't that a great story?

00:07:22 ◼   ► I thought it was an urban myth. I can't believe that's real.

00:07:24 ◼   ► There's a couple—I mean, I could go on and on and on about Hopsin and Londromat,

00:07:27 ◼   ► and someday—

00:07:28 ◼   ► My god, I want to come to Philadelphia, just to go to that.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Someday I want to—you know, you're the guy who I know, if I could get you in there

00:07:35 ◼   ► in the right mood, you would love it. But you're the one friend of mine who I worry

00:07:40 ◼   ► that maybe you wouldn't.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Is it like, talk about your drink guy rolled up sleeves, top-laced guy?

00:07:46 ◼   ► No.

00:07:47 ◼   ► But you might worry that it is when you get there. You might think, "Oh, this is going

00:07:52 ◼   ► to be one of those places," but it's not.

00:07:54 ◼   ► I think if I get a couple box browns under my belt, I'm going to open it.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Right. One of the things is—and you hear this, and I know you're going to worry that

00:08:02 ◼   ► the place—oh, it's that place. There's no signage. There's no marking on the outside

00:08:07 ◼   ► that says this is Hapsing Landromat. And in fact, it's in a stretch of Chinatown here

00:08:11 ◼   ► in Philadelphia. It's on a side of a street where you really wouldn't think there's

00:08:15 ◼   ► any open retail establishments on that street. On the other side of the street, there's

00:08:18 ◼   ► a couple of nice Chinese restaurants. But on this side of the street, it looks like

00:08:23 ◼   ► everything's closed, including the building where Hapsing is. And there's just a little

00:08:27 ◼   ► – there's like a metal gate in front of the door and a little buzzer. And you ring

00:08:32 ◼   ► the buzzer, and maybe a guy comes out and maybe nobody comes out. And you just stand

00:08:37 ◼   ► there and you wait, and eventually somebody comes out. And if there is any room available,

00:08:43 ◼   ► they will let you in. And if there is no room available, they will tell you, and then you'll

00:08:47 ◼   ► have to wait. Because they don't want anybody, it's a type of place, and I appreciate this,

00:08:52 ◼   ► it's more like a, almost like a restaurant where you're not allowed to just stand around.

00:08:57 ◼   ► You either have a seat at the bar, or you have a table, or you're not inside yet. They

00:09:03 ◼   ► They have a little ante room where you come in and, and Lee, the owner, he will explain

00:09:09 ◼   ► the rules of the place to you. The ante chamber, the entire floor is paved with tails up pennies

00:09:18 ◼   ► from corner to corner. Except there's two or three of them that are heads up if you

00:09:22 ◼   ► look closely. It's beautiful, though. It's really, really beautiful.

00:09:27 ◼   ► They have a, they have rules and apparently they have, is it accurate, they have a dress

00:09:30 ◼   ► code?

00:09:31 ◼   ► They do have a dress code.

00:09:32 ◼   ► So it's like the number one Google search is like for hops and laundromats dress code.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Yeah, definitely a dress code. You cannot, you can't get in there with shorts. Not really

00:09:39 ◼   ► a problem at this time of year, but no shorts, no flip flops. You got to look like an adult.

00:09:45 ◼   ► That should, that should just be a rule everywhere.

00:09:47 ◼   ► I think sneakers might be a problem. I'm not sure. So that might be the one thing that, that, that.

00:09:55 ◼   ► I mean, Jon, just for, I will, I will make it work. I'm going to come there just for that. I

00:09:59 ◼   ► I will make it work. And the key to this is the—well, maybe, do you want to tell your

00:10:05 ◼   ► audience what this is? It sounds like a very deceptively simple drink that has a couple

00:10:10 ◼   ► important elements.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Well, let me tell you the first time I had it. The first time I had it. I've been intrigued

00:10:14 ◼   ► by Hopsin ever since I heard about it, and it was supposed to open, I don't know, a

00:10:18 ◼   ► year and a half ago or something like that. And I had my eye on it and kept checking a

00:10:22 ◼   ► couple of—it was like the only thing that made me check the Philadelphia food blogs

00:10:26 ◼   ► and stuff like that. And it never seemed, you know, and I'd go past it and look and

00:10:32 ◼   ► of course, it even now it doesn't really look like it's open, but there was never

00:10:35 ◼   ► any sign that that the thing was ever getting closer to opening. And then about a year ago,

00:10:43 ◼   ► it was supposed to open right after like New Year's, you know, 11 months ago or whatever

00:10:49 ◼   ► it was, it was getting rumored that it was going to he was going to open soon. And the

00:10:53 ◼   ► word was that if you followed him on Twitter that you could maybe get invited in early.

00:10:58 ◼   ► So all I did was follow the guy. And I don't know, a week or two later I got like a, I

00:11:04 ◼   ► don't know if it was an at reply or a DM or something, but it was, you know, if you

00:11:08 ◼   ► want to come in for a tasting, we're having a tasting, invitation only tasting Tuesday

00:11:12 ◼   ► night, you want to come in. And I was like, yeah, of course. Although I know, you know

00:11:18 ◼   ► But actually, I could just go on and on with this guy.

00:11:22 ◼   ► It's so great.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Actually, what he did was, before I got invited to the tasting, he invited me and Amy to come

00:11:28 ◼   ► in one afternoon just to see the place.

00:11:31 ◼   ► That's right.

00:11:32 ◼   ► So, I didn't get a drink the first time I went in.

00:11:34 ◼   ► So, Amy and I come over, and it's like a Tuesday afternoon, and Jonas was still in

00:11:38 ◼   ► school.

00:11:42 ◼   ► And he lets us in.

00:11:43 ◼   ► What are you hoping?

00:11:44 ◼   ► Just out of curiosity, when you went there while Jonas was at school, were you kind of

00:11:47 ◼   ► hoping to get a drink? No, I—because I didn't think it was even legal, because I don't

00:11:52 ◼   ► think that it was, you know what I mean? There was like a licensing type situation. Not that

00:11:57 ◼   ► you can't, you know, pour one out, you know, on the slot. So you had one before you went

00:12:01 ◼   ► out. Right. But we go in, and we come in the main room, and it really is—it's just

00:12:05 ◼   ► a beautiful—it's just beautiful. I can't do any justice to it. I mean, there's a

00:12:08 ◼   ► couple of photographs that are out there of the room, but it really is just a beautiful

00:12:12 ◼   ► place, and he was showing us some of the stuff. But the whole time, there's a guy sitting

00:12:16 ◼   ► at a table in the middle of the room, a young guy maybe, I don't know, 22, 23. And then

00:12:21 ◼   ► offhandedly, we have no idea who he is. He's just sitting there, like sort of very straight

00:12:27 ◼   ► back. And about five minutes in, Lee lets us know that this guy was in here, he's in

00:12:30 ◼   ► here interviewing for a job as a bartender. And in the meantime, Lee isn't paying any

00:12:36 ◼   ► attention to him, and he had apparently abandoned the interview halfway to give me and Amy this

00:12:40 ◼   ► tour of the place. And I think it was a total fight club situation where he was testing

00:12:47 ◼   ► the guy. You know, like, what are you going to do if I stop this job interview halfway

00:12:51 ◼   ► through to give these other two people a tour of the bar and none of us acknowledge you

00:12:56 ◼   ► for 30 minutes?

00:12:57 ◼   ► Jared: It's a kind of employment hazing.

00:13:00 ◼   ► John: Yeah, I think so.

00:13:01 ◼   ► Jared; Let's see if you're going to make it here, Johnny. That's good.

00:13:04 ◼   ► John; But, you know, one of the things that hit me right, struck me right away on that,

00:13:07 ◼   ► even on that tour, is that he really does have the most extraordinary selection of liquor

00:13:14 ◼   ► I've ever seen in my entire life, in terms of bourbons and the stuff that I like and

00:13:20 ◼   ► can judge the quality of the collection. I mean, it really is sort of a, I don't know,

00:13:26 ◼   ► like a Stephen King type story where he's pulled some of this stuff from another universe,

00:13:31 ◼   ► you know, like all sorts of stuff I've never even heard of. Have you ever heard of Four

00:13:34 ◼   ► Four roses, bourbon. Pretty good.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I get it confused because there's a bum wine with roses in it.

00:13:42 ◼   ► No, no, no. Four roses is pretty good. I think it's running around $30, $35. Really good

00:13:49 ◼   ► stuff. And then there's—

00:13:50 ◼   ► Somebody sent me a bottle of that once and it was terrific.

00:13:52 ◼   ► Yeah, it's really good. And then there's a four roses something something, maybe four

00:13:56 ◼   ► roses select or something like that, which I have seen as well. And I think it's maybe

00:13:59 ◼   ► like $10 more. He has four different Four Roses bourbons. He's got Four Roses, the

00:14:06 ◼   ► Four Roses other thing that I've heard, and then he's got these other two that are—it's

00:14:09 ◼   ► like, where do you get—how do you even get that? How do you get that? And it just—right

00:14:14 ◼   ► down the line with all of, you know, all of your favorite distillers. He's just got

00:14:19 ◼   ► Black Maple Hill, which is really good stuff. But then he's got Black Maple Hill Black

00:14:23 ◼   ► Label, which you can't get it. I don't even know where—it's like he made it up.

00:14:27 ◼   ► It's like he's got this one bottle of Black Maple Hill Black Label bourbon.

00:14:32 ◼   ► So I was super, super impressed.

00:14:33 ◼   ► Long story short, a week or two later, I get invited to a tasting.

00:14:36 ◼   ► The place isn't open yet.

00:14:38 ◼   ► And the way the tasting went is, it was, I don't know, seven or eight of us.

00:14:43 ◼   ► And we didn't get to pick anything.

00:14:45 ◼   ► He said, "Here, this is your first drink.

00:14:49 ◼   ► And you know, you tell me what you think of it.

00:14:53 ◼   ► What do you think it is?"

00:14:54 ◼   ► And I could tell right away, it was sort of like a screwdriver.

00:14:56 ◼   ► It was definitely orange juice.

00:14:59 ◼   ► I could only guess because of the lack of any other strong taste that it was vodka.

00:15:04 ◼   ► But there was like a frothiness on top.

00:15:05 ◼   ► I had no idea what he added.

00:15:09 ◼   ► And it ends up, nope, it was just a screwdriver.

00:15:11 ◼   ► Just fresh extracted.

00:15:13 ◼   ► He's testing you.

00:15:15 ◼   ► Fresh extracted orange juice and I think Ultimat, U-L-M-A-T vodka.

00:15:24 ◼   ► But because it was fresh extracted juice, it had this frothiness to it that was amazing.

00:15:28 ◼   ► And then the next drink he gave me was the Henry Box Brown, which is fresh extracted

00:15:33 ◼   ► red grape juice and El Dorado 15-year-old aged rum.

00:15:38 ◼   ► But here's the thing.

00:15:39 ◼   ► He gave me that drink.

00:15:41 ◼   ► And so what do you think?

00:15:43 ◼   ► Number one, I loved it.

00:15:44 ◼   ► It was just unbelievable.

00:15:45 ◼   ► It's just an unbelievable drink.

00:15:48 ◼   ► It's so refreshing, but it's also clearly a very, very, very boozy drink.

00:15:53 ◼   ► I had no idea what was in it. I had no idea. I couldn't tell that it was grape juice.

00:15:57 ◼   ► I couldn't tell that it was rum. I was like, "Ahh!" I don't know. Because I've

00:16:04 ◼   ► never heard of that. I've never in my life heard of anybody mixing grape juice and rum.

00:16:08 ◼   ► And in fact, that's all there is in the drink. You know, you hear "rum" and you

00:16:12 ◼   ► think stuff like, you know, you think tiki drinks, you know, pineapple.

00:16:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I think of like getting a headache. Like, I can't drink a lot of rum.

00:16:19 ◼   ► Well, rum can—

00:16:20 ◼   ► I don't enjoy it, like the way I enjoy bourbon.

00:16:22 ◼   ► Well, and rum, I've done – I know a thimbleful about rum compared to what I know about bourbon.

00:16:28 ◼   ► But one of the problems with rum is that, unlike a lot of other liquor around the world,

00:16:33 ◼   ► it's unregulated.

00:16:34 ◼   ► So, like, there's a lot – you can't call something – me and you can't just

00:16:36 ◼   ► get together with some stuff and make something and call it bourbon.

00:16:40 ◼   ► Like bourbon –

00:16:41 ◼   ► Or champagne.

00:16:42 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:16:43 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:16:44 ◼   ► Like champagne.

00:16:45 ◼   ► It's very highly regulated.

00:16:46 ◼   ► You have to – I think even – it's so regulated, you have to make bourbon in Tennessee.

00:16:48 ◼   ► I don't think you can even call it bourbon if it didn't come out of Tennessee or something.

00:16:52 ◼   ► like that. I don't know. But it's really, you know, and the percentage of wheat versus corn,

00:16:59 ◼   ► it has to be in a certain, you know, very narrow range. You know, like there's like truly like a

00:17:06 ◼   ► legal definition of the difference between bourbon and rye, etc., etc. Well, there's no such

00:17:11 ◼   ► regulations around rum. You can make anything that, you know, anything.

00:17:14 ◼   ► Pete: You can make bathtub rum.

00:17:16 ◼   ► Ted, Jr. Exactly. And you can just call it rum, which is why rum tends to, you know,

00:17:20 ◼   ► Exactly. Why people associate it with headaches.

00:17:22 ◼   ► So, it could be those—I'm pulling this out of my ass—but it could be the kind of impurities

00:17:27 ◼   ► that have been introduced owing to a lack of regulation.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:17:31 ◼   ► It's like buying generic drugs.

00:17:32 ◼   ► And I think tequila suffers similarly from, you know, that the low-end stuff is truly—

00:17:38 ◼   ► Oh, now that I'm a tequila guy, I so notice the difference. It's a huge difference.

00:17:42 ◼   ► And it just gives the whole liquor a bad name, though. Right? Because, you know,

00:17:47 ◼   ► Well, a really good tequila is no reason to be concerned about, like, you know…

00:17:53 ◼   ► But unlike bourbon, the difference between a medium good tequila and a bad tequila is

00:17:58 ◼   ► huge.

00:17:59 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:18:00 ◼   ► I mean, it's really, it's crazy.

00:18:01 ◼   ► Like, I get…

00:18:02 ◼   ► Oh, I forget what I get.

00:18:03 ◼   ► I'm usually drunk when I'm getting it.

00:18:05 ◼   ► But the…

00:18:06 ◼   ► No, I get, like, I get the…

00:18:07 ◼   ► I like a white…

00:18:08 ◼   ► You know, I make this thing, they call it the paleo cocktail.

00:18:09 ◼   ► This is…

00:18:10 ◼   ► I don't know if I've ever made you drink one of these.

00:18:12 ◼   ► No, I don't think so.

00:18:13 ◼   ► But it's…

00:18:14 ◼   ► Oh, dude.

00:18:15 ◼   ► It's tequila, lime juice, and SodaStream.

00:18:16 ◼   ► stream. Oh no, I've had one of those. Yeah. Oh, it's... I didn't know you caught it and I had a name for it though.

00:18:20 ◼   ► Well, you know, that's what they call it. But it's, it's the perfect drink. It's, it's so refreshing and

00:18:26 ◼   ► you can make one in about seven seconds, which is nice. But, but you know, the thing is, I use the

00:18:31 ◼   ► Blanco, right? And then if I, if I'm, if I got to go to the Bodega and get the Jose Cuervo Gold, it's

00:18:37 ◼   ► like, ugh, this is like, you know, Jimmy Buffett, you know, like, urinated in a steel pot or something.

00:18:42 ◼   ► I don't I just don't care what your ratio. What do you what do you what do you?

00:18:45 ◼   ► What's your measurement publicly or privately?

00:18:48 ◼   ► Publicly you just put in a little bit a little bit of tequila

00:18:51 ◼   ► Yeah, well what's but what I do is I put it

00:18:55 ◼   ► I put it in until I think that's just a little bit too much, and that's what I know it's good

00:18:59 ◼   ► I see don't and then I don't measure

00:19:01 ◼   ► Measure it now

00:19:02 ◼   ► Eyeball it. You know my ball. You measure your day. I do measurement drinks. I even measure my martinis

00:19:06 ◼   ► I'm gonna I'm not telling my wife this I'm gonna go out after our program your program

00:19:10 ◼   ► and I'm gonna go get if I can find we have a pretty good not too annoying wine

00:19:15 ◼   ► and liquor store that I that has stuff like I bet they got this El Dorado now

00:19:19 ◼   ► can you make this at home am I am is that a fool's errand what you'd have a

00:19:22 ◼   ► great juice I bet the grape juice is the heart yeah because he's got this fancy

00:19:26 ◼   ► extractor behind there it's it's I bet Marco has one yes I bet he has three

00:19:32 ◼   ► everybody has two that he doesn't like if Marco has a juice extractor he's got

00:19:35 ◼   ► the one that that Lee has at hop sing it's like you know it looks like it

00:19:39 ◼   ► works pretty fast it's stainless steel and I found I found two that were

00:19:43 ◼   ► difficult to clean it looks like it's easy to clean so that if if me and you

00:19:48 ◼   ► were both bartending there and I'm making one with the grape and you're

00:19:51 ◼   ► waiting for me because you've got to make a one with the oranges next that

00:19:55 ◼   ► it's easy to clean you know it just looks like the the best juice extractor

00:20:00 ◼   ► so I don't know but apparently people have said though that you can just

00:20:04 ◼   ► muddle the grapes in in a mixing thing I mean it's probably not quite as good

00:20:09 ◼   ► But I'm sure you get pretty close with, you know, pretty close.

00:20:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm going to measure this one now. That sounds fantastic.

00:20:16 ◼   ► But like I said, it's this thing where I've had some good rum drinks over the years, you know,

00:20:22 ◼   ► that I've enjoyed at, you know, like at the Disney, what's that, the Polynesian thing where…

00:20:28 ◼   ► Oh, sure.

00:20:28 ◼   ► You know, you put…

00:20:29 ◼   ► Is that still there? The Polynesian's still there?

00:20:30 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. You know, you go in there and make a rum drink and pour it into a carved out pineapple

00:20:34 ◼   ► or something like that. But that's what I associate with rum drinks. You don't think grape,

00:20:37 ◼   ► I don't know. It's just crazy. It's the craziest combination, and it's just the best drink.

00:20:42 ◼   ► It is... You know me. I do. I love the bourbon. I love the martinis. I'm telling you, though,

00:20:46 ◼   ► if I found out on a desert island that the only booze I could have for the rest of my

00:20:50 ◼   ► life were Henry Box Brown's, I'd be fine.

00:20:52 ◼   ► I'm going to try it. Well, I think, you know, of the numerous things I like to think that

00:20:56 ◼   ► we have in common, I think our liquor preferences are pretty close.

00:21:00 ◼   ► Well, and...

00:21:01 ◼   ► Also, Scott Simpson. He just drinks a lot more.

00:21:03 ◼   ► Well, and...

00:21:04 ◼   ► It's not a problem. He's got it under control.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Here's the other thing I love about the Henry Box Brown one, telling people, trying to explain

00:21:09 ◼   ► my love of Hopsin, is that you get in there and you're going to be worried. I know I was

00:21:15 ◼   ► worried. I was worried that I was setting myself up to be just worried.

00:21:17 ◼   ► That's kind of a—yeah, you were right to be worried, because I'm on board. I'm still

00:21:20 ◼   ► on board. Do they have big square ice cubes?

00:21:24 ◼   ► They're not—you know what? I think the ice—

00:21:25 ◼   ► They're not joking. They're not the most jokey-sized ice cubes?

00:21:28 ◼   ► No, no. They're, you know, they're big cubes, but they're not one big cube.

00:21:33 ◼   ► But you're, but there are definitely red flags. If you went into these places, and I'm not

00:21:37 ◼   ► going to talk about this a million times, but like these places you go to in San Francisco

00:21:40 ◼   ► and LA that are like the Haunted Mansion, you know, you go in and it's real silly and

00:21:45 ◼   ► it's like a Tom Waits song and everybody's super serious, "No cell phones allowed,"

00:21:50 ◼   ► you know, or like, "Hey, you have to like type out a request on the typewriter before

00:21:54 ◼   ► we let you in." Okay, I get it. You know, but this sounds like a terrific place. And

00:21:59 ◼   ► And the thing is, the proof is in the pudding. If you can get in there and get a drink and

00:22:03 ◼   ► enjoy it, then it's a good place.

00:22:05 ◼   ► Right. So, uh, Hapsing, I think, has very reasonable cell phone rules. You are allowed

00:22:09 ◼   ► to use your phone, but you are not allowed to make a phone call. This is for the enjoyment

00:22:14 ◼   ► of your patrons surrounding you, and you are not allowed to take photographs. And this

00:22:18 ◼   ► is for the privacy of all the people who are in there.

00:22:20 ◼   ► No, I think that's a reasonable rule, that if you're in there, if you're in there,

00:22:25 ◼   ► You can rest assured that your photograph is not going to be taken.

00:22:29 ◼   ► So you can—

00:22:30 ◼   ► Well, this is probably better, say, for a different program, but if you could just capture

00:22:34 ◼   ► this.

00:22:35 ◼   ► I think at some point you and I should take our big podcast money and come up with a place

00:22:39 ◼   ► that will have, yes, B, awesome drinks, but A, will have the most exhaustive and inscrutable

00:22:44 ◼   ► set of rules that any place has ever had.

00:22:48 ◼   ► And it's extremely difficult to find.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Maybe it's got three doors and sometimes they're locked.

00:22:52 ◼   ► I don't want to get all you guys today, but I think we could make a lot of dough in either

00:22:56 ◼   ► of our cities by having a place that's extremely difficult to understand and in which you might

00:23:01 ◼   ► be thrown out at any point for reasons.

00:23:02 ◼   ► It would be a lot like if Mao had a bar.

00:23:04 ◼   ► There would be stuff happening that would be very hard to understand.

00:23:07 ◼   ► Well, maybe it's open in both cities, but it's technically one establishment, so it's

00:23:15 ◼   ► never open on the same day.

00:23:17 ◼   ► We found a loophole that allows us to have one liquor license for the entire place and

00:23:22 ◼   ► maybe it shuts down, maybe you get two hours there, I get two hours here, we throw everybody

00:23:27 ◼   ► out, and there's a different password when you come in. There's a place to tell them.

00:23:30 ◼   ► The schedule is always different week to week.

00:23:32 ◼   ► It is, and it's written in Mandarin.

00:23:34 ◼   ► And it just says, like, if you just show up on Friday night on whatever street in San

00:23:38 ◼   ► Francisco, it says, "I'm sorry, we're open in Philadelphia tonight."

00:23:41 ◼   ► Maybe you gotta solve a Sudoku to get in. I don't know, but I mean, you wanna keep it,

00:23:46 ◼   ► you wanna keep it—I think these, the kind of people who go to these places, they really enjoy

00:23:50 ◼   ► that level of theatricality. Can I ask you one more bourbon question?

00:23:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:57 ◼   ► I have a feeling I'll know the answer. Have you tried Eagle Rare?

00:23:59 ◼   ► I was gonna say no, but I think...

00:24:05 ◼   ► You probably don't remember.

00:24:06 ◼   ► I may not remember. No, it's Ring and Abello. Eagle Rare.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Eagle Rare is one of those ones where there are definitely... They have an Eagle Rare...

00:24:15 ◼   ► Let me get this right. I think their standard one, I want to say, is 10 years.

00:24:20 ◼   ► And it's really, really good. And then they have another one. I want to get this right for

00:24:24 ◼   ► posterity. There's another one that is more costly and longer aged. And it's just one of the best

00:24:32 ◼   ► things I've ever had in my life. It's incredible. I have had it. I don't know where. I'm looking at

00:24:36 ◼   ► the bottle now. And now that I see the bottle... It's definitely one of those ones that you want

00:24:39 ◼   ► to probably just enjoy, you know, with a little bit of rocks. I mean, it's... or not. It's really

00:24:45 ◼   ► good. Yeah, I have not, I do not have it in the house. I've never purchased it, but I know that

00:24:50 ◼   ► I've had this somewhere. I can't remember where though. But one night we had to record a "You Look

00:24:56 ◼   ► Nice" today, so I needed something to drink, and I grabbed the first thing that we had at home,

00:25:00 ◼   ► that we had a bottle of, which is this Eagle Rare, the fancy one. 17, I see this. They have a 10 as

00:25:06 ◼   ► the standard, and then they have a 17. Ooh, and I've never seen that. Ooh, that's a pretty good.

00:25:11 ◼   ► See, there's always another level, right? It's that you get deeper and deeper into that place

00:25:14 ◼   ► over Pirates of the Caribbean or whatever, you get a fancier room. But, you know, it's

00:25:20 ◼   ► a silly story, but I grabbed it and brought it to work. I thought, "Oh, hey, this is

00:25:24 ◼   ► cool." Because it had been a gift that actually Mina had given to Matt for doing a little

00:25:28 ◼   ► favor for her. And then she said, "Oh, well, can I get her something?" I can get her

00:25:30 ◼   ► a bottle of something. I grabbed it and brought it to work and started making a variation

00:25:36 ◼   ► on this. Now, this is blasphemy, I know. But yeah, it's bourbon, right? It's bourbon

00:25:42 ◼   ► with some lime, and I cover it up with some SodaStreams, very similar to the tequila drink.

00:25:48 ◼   ► And I got about three-quarters of the way into this, and I happened to mention to Simpson

00:25:52 ◼   ► that I was drinking that. He said he was drinking some too. And he said, "Oh, did you know

00:25:55 ◼   ► that's $50 a bottle?" I was like, I was so embarrassed, but luckily I was so intoxicated

00:26:03 ◼   ► that it didn't stick with me. So then I bought another one to replace it for her, because

00:26:06 ◼   ► I'm a gentleman, and then I drank that one too. But if you can get that stuff, I don't

00:26:10 ◼   ► if you want to get at the Hopsing, but if you want to have something to enjoy with your

00:26:13 ◼   ► lady after hours, it's real good.

00:26:16 ◼   ► And now I know why I'm familiar with it. It's from the Buffalo Trace people.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:26:22 ◼   ► Remember what we did in New Zealand to the Buffalo Trace?

00:26:27 ◼   ► Oh my god! Is that when we ran them out of liquor?

00:26:30 ◼   ► You know, New Zealand, they don't—the Wi-Fi there, they get like Hayes Modem-style Wi-Fi

00:26:35 ◼   ► for $400 a day, right? You want to buy a coffee? It takes 35 minutes and costs, I don't know

00:26:42 ◼   ► what the kiwi money is. And they do not have a lot of bourbon, as we discovered.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Well, that was embarrassing.

00:26:49 ◼   ► The story is that we were there for web stock to 28—

00:26:53 ◼   ► What was that guy's name? What was the bartender's name?

00:26:54 ◼   ► Houston.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Houston.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Houston. I love Houston.

00:26:59 ◼   ► So we're at—I forget the name of—what's the name of the—the hippopotamus?

00:27:02 ◼   ► I think it was the hippocampus.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Yeah, hip-hop-a-bottomist bar at the hotel where everybody who was a speaker at WebStop was. And

00:27:10 ◼   ► we were all there on the first day. We're all deeply, deeply jet-lagged because, you know,

00:27:17 ◼   ► it's like the, you know, couldn't be more jet-lagged.

00:27:20 ◼   ► Steven: It was a 15-hour flight for us. And you had Philadelphia to San Francisco on top.

00:27:25 ◼   ► We flew together. But you had Philadelphia to San Francisco and then San Francisco to New

00:27:28 ◼   ► Zealand. How long was that? It had to have been 20 hours.

00:27:30 ◼   ► Yeah, but we had like a we had like a

00:27:32 ◼   ► Four we had like a five-hour layover

00:27:35 ◼   ► Didn't get a hotel we got a hotel room and fell asleep for three hours, which was the smartest thing

00:27:39 ◼   ► It was like the best 150 bucks

00:27:41 ◼   ► I ever spent was the 150 bucks to get a hotel room for two hours

00:27:45 ◼   ► Or three hours and and sleep a little bit between the flights

00:27:49 ◼   ► Well worth it. But anyway, we get there and and we get up to the hotel bar and it's afternoon

00:27:55 ◼   ► It was I don't know like for

00:27:57 ◼   ► 4.30 and everybody's sort of meeting each other and we find out that the hotel bar had

00:28:01 ◼   ► like every month they had a special cocktail and this month's special cocktail was the

00:28:06 ◼   ► bourbon old-fashioned and we were like well we're the we've seemed to have booked the

00:28:11 ◼   ► right hotel and like three days later this bartender who was awesome he had this real

00:28:17 ◼   ► theater remember the way he houston would uh when he would take the he was almost like

00:28:22 ◼   ► a cast member. I mean, he was very energetic and very fun and like, not teasing, but you know what

00:28:28 ◼   ► I mean? Remember, he was just, he was really engaged, and it was fun to give him something

00:28:31 ◼   ► like $17 per drink. It was really, it was fun. Wasn't it costly? It was pretty costly.

00:28:36 ◼   ► It was, you know, it was like, I forget, I, you know, it was one of those things where

00:28:39 ◼   ► their dollars or whatever they call the things are so close to ours but not quite that it threw

00:28:44 ◼   ► me off. Where you'd— Yeah, it's like 1.1 birds to a buck or something.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Right. It would be like, you know, an $18 drink and I'd think, "Well, no, wait a second. With

00:28:51 ◼   ► the conversion. Does that mean I'm paying 20-some dollars, or does that mean I'm only paying 12?

00:28:57 ◼   ► Dr. Justin Marchegiani I do that with time and money.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Dr. Justin Marchegiani Right.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Dr. Justin Marchegiani I calculate the opposite way.

00:29:01 ◼   ► Dr. Justin Marchegiani But, uh, you know, and they had options.

00:29:03 ◼   ► You could make it with this if you want to. There was like a whole page, like the—in

00:29:06 ◼   ► the cocktail menu, one whole page was specifically for the old fashion and they had all these other

00:29:11 ◼   ► options you could do. But Houston had a real nice way of taking a grapefruit peel. That was what he

00:29:17 ◼   ► was putting in him. And then he would twist it and light a match and sort of, you know,

00:29:24 ◼   ► explode the—I don't even know what that is in a citrus thing that is from—

00:29:29 ◼   ► Not a rind, but the—

00:29:30 ◼   ► Yeah, the rind, you know, the—

00:29:31 ◼   ► Twist, the twist thing.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Yeah, and somehow if you do it at the—if you time it right when you squeeze it and light a match,

00:29:36 ◼   ► you can make a flame burst out and it sort of, you know, puts like a smoky hint to the rind as he

00:29:43 ◼   ► garnishes your drink. And anyway, within two days, it was, "Well, I'm very sorry, but

00:29:48 ◼   ► we're all out of Buffalo Trace bourbon." And then it was like, "Oh, well, I'll take…"

00:29:53 ◼   ► And it was like, "Well, in fact, we're all out of bourbon." And he was so apologetic.

00:30:00 ◼   ► But this is like a real… The thing is, though, you have to understand that this is, you know,

00:30:03 ◼   ► this is a real bar. This isn't like something that's been slapped onto a Marriott booth

00:30:08 ◼   ► by Hot Wings. This is like a nice bar with a nice restaurant.

00:30:12 ◼   ► I had a nice view. It was like up on the fourth floor. Had a real nice view of the—

00:30:15 ◼   ► It wasn't the kind of place that goes, "Oh, we forgot to order bourbon."

00:30:18 ◼   ► No, it was Bourbon Month.

00:30:20 ◼   ► It was a seismic event in the bourbon world of this bar.

00:30:23 ◼   ► It was Bourbon Month. And I believe that what we ended up doing—

00:30:27 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:30:28 ◼   ► I think that—

00:30:28 ◼   ► It was Bourbon Month.

00:30:30 ◼   ► I think they still had Jack Daniels. And so we ended up letting them make us old-fashions

00:30:34 ◼   ► out of Jack Daniels, which is sort of, you know, poor form. And he was very apologetic about it.

00:30:41 ◼   ► but it was amazing we'll try that Eagle rare and I've already made a list here I

00:30:46 ◼   ► got my to-do list stop here and I'm gonna I'm gonna get the Marara rum from

00:30:52 ◼   ► Guyana called 15 year old El Dorado oh god that sounds good you want red grapes

00:30:58 ◼   ► I think red anyway though it bottom line though is that here's the thing you

00:31:02 ◼   ► think the place is real fussy and here's the thing Amy and I have this and there's

00:31:05 ◼   ► a whole bunch of other places in town in Philly that are like this I know I've

00:31:08 ◼   ► been to the the Birmingham branch out in San Francisco and that a lot of these

00:31:13 ◼   ► cocktail places number one they dress the bartenders up old-timey style they

00:31:16 ◼   ► don't do that at hop sing everybody just wears a white shirt and a black tie

00:31:19 ◼   ► that's it there's no old timiness to it you look it's more like a reservoir dogs

00:31:22 ◼   ► look without the jacket every you know you look you know everybody looks the

00:31:25 ◼   ► same you can tell who works there but you're not there's no fake you old-timey

00:31:28 ◼   ► nobody has a mustache but here's the thing all the drinks that a lot of these

00:31:33 ◼   ► craft cocktail places sound really really good until you get to the last

00:31:37 ◼   ► thing and then it's like, "Ooh, why would you put that in a drink?" And then it's, I think

00:31:41 ◼   ► you're supposed to be like, the fact that you can get it down makes you better than other people,

00:31:46 ◼   ► because there's, you know, a little bit of an extracted dog turd in there.

00:31:52 ◼   ► Exactly. It's like, we know we're no Albert. We're no soul brother when it comes to drinks.

00:31:57 ◼   ► But just from my, you know, semi-pro drinking, it does strike me that sometimes it is a lot like a

00:32:06 ◼   ► a place that wants to be a fancy food place. Now this works. You've been to French Laundry

00:32:11 ◼   ► here in San Francisco?

00:32:12 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. I go there every time.

00:32:14 ◼   ► For real?

00:32:15 ◼   ► No.

00:32:16 ◼   ► Oh. Sorry. Well, French Laundry is one of those places.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I have a table at the corner.

00:32:20 ◼   ► It's a Thomas Keller place that was like the best restaurant in America two years in a

00:32:24 ◼   ► row. And it's an event to go there.

00:32:26 ◼   ► Arguably, maybe, possibly, you could argue, the best restaurant in the world.

00:32:30 ◼   ► You remember when Jason and Meg like saved all their change for a year to go there?

00:32:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:35 ◼   ► But it's really amazing. And you go in there and it's first of all, this is a D-Rock, we're

00:32:39 ◼   ► not talking about iTunes, but it was a, it is completely event dining and they do something

00:32:43 ◼   ► that almost nobody else does well, which is cute. They do cute really well. Not cute,

00:32:48 ◼   ► but you know, too clever by a half, they pull it off. Here, let me bring you these, this Peanut

00:32:54 ◼   ► and Gel-E sandwich. And it's all just like silly puns on something that like, you know, but the

00:33:00 ◼   ► peanuts are made out of, you know, artesana lamb or something. Anyway, but it works. But it strikes

00:33:05 ◼   ► me that a lot of these places try to do that, especially in a tourist area. They can make

00:33:08 ◼   ► it fancy if they—would you call it desiccated dog dirt? Like, you add something to it that

00:33:13 ◼   ► is like the wrong ingredient. You go, "Oh, well, that sounds fancy. We've taken something

00:33:15 ◼   ► really mundane." Like, you know, like a lamb shank. God, one of the worst lamb shanks I

00:33:20 ◼   ► ever had was at Disney World. You get a lamb shank, which is the most disappointing part

00:33:24 ◼   ► of a lamb apart from maybe the horns and the sorrow.

00:33:26 ◼   ► It's even like the butcher's trying to warn you with the word shank.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Shanks Shanks screams variety, you know, it's anyway I want to derail it

00:33:35 ◼   ► But but you know, but I agree with you and and if you and there are places

00:33:38 ◼   ► There's kind of soup Nazi sorts of places where once you know

00:33:40 ◼   ► How to go there?

00:33:43 ◼   ► It maybe it becomes even like a point of pride like you can go there and you know that it's casual like you know what?

00:33:48 ◼   ► I mean like now you're not gonna be scrutinized as much because you're you're a regular right?

00:33:54 ◼   ► You know, you know how it goes. You're not gonna show up in Tevas, right?

00:33:58 ◼   ► Well, the thing is is that to me and it goes with everything whether it's food whether it's drinks whether it's picking a font or

00:34:04 ◼   ► Something like that

00:34:05 ◼   ► Sometimes the best thing to do is is not gonna win you any accolades for being a genius or being clever

00:34:11 ◼   ► But it's just the right thing to do and you should be humble enough to just do it sometimes

00:34:15 ◼   ► So for example, here's a drink where the right thing to do is just it's just grape juice and rum and it's shaken

00:34:22 ◼   ► And it's cold and it's good and that's it and there's no right this there's no, you know

00:34:27 ◼   ► an elderberry flower topped on it or you know. Well yeah, it's like that movie I didn't finish

00:34:33 ◼   ► watching about the, what is it, Jiro Dreams of Sushi or whatever, about the guy that makes the

00:34:37 ◼   ► best sushi in the world or whatever. And you know, I thought it was, it could have been a one-hour

00:34:42 ◼   ► documentary I think, but it was still interesting because all this guy does is do sushi. But what

00:34:47 ◼   ► he puts, what he and his family and the people who work at this 10-seat sushi bar put into it

00:34:51 ◼   ► it is astonishing. I mean, you know, but it is still, he's, I say he's buying the same

00:34:57 ◼   ► tuna, that's not entirely accurate, but everything he does, this comes back to our old thing

00:35:01 ◼   ► about, you know, taste, you know, and class and decision making and what you don't do.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And he has chosen to do this thing for whatever, 50 years, and he does it better than anybody

00:35:11 ◼   ► and people pay $300 for a 15-minute meal at this place. It's like a 10-course sushi meal

00:35:16 ◼   ► in 15 minutes. But everybody who goes there, people who go there over and over, people

00:35:20 ◼   ► from Japan who know sushi, food critics that are like, "There's just no other meal like

00:35:24 ◼   ► this in the world," but it's, he's just making sushi. I could go here and it's all, in my

00:35:28 ◼   ► neighborhood it's all actually, as Scott Simpson had to tell me, it's all Chinese people in

00:35:31 ◼   ► my neighborhood that work at the sushi place, but it's, some places are good, some places

00:35:36 ◼   ► are better. And then for reasons you can't explain, sometimes, as with the Mythical Man

00:35:40 ◼   ► month, sometimes it's just ten times better. And it's definitely true with font choices.

00:35:45 ◼   ► You give the same Helvetica Noi to fifteen people and you're going to have extremely

00:35:48 ◼   ► different results. You know, it's just weird. There's just a kind of like the going to a

00:35:53 ◼   ► butcher shop where they know how to cut it up and choose. It's a completely different

00:35:57 ◼   ► experience. Which is a good way to get into iTunes.

00:36:02 ◼   ► Exactly. I should probably do a…

00:36:05 ◼   ► Yeah, tell me about something you like.

00:36:06 ◼   ► I should probably do a sponsor break. You know what, our first sponsor, I am very happy

00:36:13 ◼   ► to say once again is Tonks coffee. You know the Tonks?

00:36:19 ◼   ► Jared

00:36:20 ◼   ► Is this the, now forgive me, you can cut this out. This is the things you put in to keep

00:36:23 ◼   ► your coffee hot? Is that right?

00:36:25 ◼   ► Jon

00:36:26 ◼   ► No, it's not.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Jared

00:36:28 ◼   ► Are these the things where you snap the pieces together to make a Death Star?

00:36:30 ◼   ► Jon

00:36:31 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Jared

00:36:33 ◼   ► What's Tonk, Jon?

00:36:34 ◼   ► Jon

00:36:35 ◼   ► Tonks, it's great. You sign up, they go around the world, they find great beans from all

00:36:40 ◼   ► over the planet. Literally, I talked about this last week with Glenn Fleischman. I mean,

00:36:44 ◼   ► like different continents, they go everywhere. They roast them, they do it the right way.

00:36:48 ◼   ► They seal them up in these great bags, and they mail them right to your door. And so

00:36:53 ◼   ► you don't have to buy coffee anymore. You sign up for Tonks and world class coffee from

00:36:58 ◼   ► around the world just shows up in your mail slot every couple of weeks on a regular schedule.

00:37:05 ◼   ► you never have to your house always has world class coffee fresh delicious ready to go it's

00:37:14 ◼   ► just a simple small company that does one thing finds great find and roast great coffee

00:37:19 ◼   ► and sends it right to you the entire company is 100% focused on helping you brew great

00:37:27 ◼   ► coffee their website has all sorts of great advice on how to make coffee very very simple

00:37:33 ◼   ► ways. It just couldn't be better. I couldn't be happier with it. This coffee is just delicious.

00:37:40 ◼   ► I'm drinking some again right now. Couldn't be better. Marco Arment, I don't think he

00:37:45 ◼   ► drinks anything else. I think he refuses to drink any other kind of coffee. That says

00:37:48 ◼   ► all you want to know about whether it's the best or not. And look at the look at the calendar,

00:37:54 ◼   ► folks. Holidays are coming up. Here's the deal.

00:37:57 ◼   ► Jared 0 You don't you don't want to send Hickory

00:37:59 ◼   ► Farms. You don't want to say Hickory Farms.

00:38:00 ◼   ► You know what? There is that aspect. And I've, you know, you know the Christmas Vacation

00:38:06 ◼   ► movie where he wants the big bonus check because he's going to put a pool in the backyard

00:38:09 ◼   ► for the family and it ends up, what did he get? The Cake of the Month Club? What did

00:38:13 ◼   ► he get? What did he get? I forget what he got. He got something of the Month Club instead.

00:38:20 ◼   ► And there is, I think there's, maybe there's a bad connotation to signing somebody up for

00:38:23 ◼   ► the Blank of the Month Club thing as a gift. But I'll tell you what, this is different.

00:38:28 ◼   ► Because if you know someone who loves coffee, you're not signing them up for, you know,

00:38:33 ◼   ► Sanka's flavored coffee of the month thing.

00:38:36 ◼   ► You're signing them up for the best coffee in the world.

00:38:39 ◼   ► I really think that this is true, that it's the best coffee in the world.

00:38:42 ◼   ► I think it's a great holiday gift for anybody who drinks coffee.

00:38:46 ◼   ► And what I'm looking for is the deadline date for holiday shipping.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Well, they should probably just do it now.

00:38:56 ◼   ► Yeah, you should do it now.

00:38:58 ◼   ► the deal. I got it right here. If you sign up for a free trial, you'll get it next week,

00:39:03 ◼   ► you can try the product in time to consider talks as a holiday gift, you go sign up right

00:39:09 ◼   ► now at talks.org to nx.org. You'll get your free sample free, they'll just that's how

00:39:15 ◼   ► confident they are. You'll get it, you'll make it you'll decide.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Tonks gifts can be purchased through the 16th of December for Christmas delivery. I wouldn't

00:39:26 ◼   ► wait that long. Me, I'm the type of guy. I got my holiday shopping done back in July.

00:39:32 ◼   ► But that's the deadline, 16th of December. But if you act right now, we're recording

00:39:37 ◼   ► here on the – what is it, the 30th of November. Most people are going to be listening to this

00:39:40 ◼   ► in December, presumably. Sign up at tonks.org. Get your free sample. Judge for yourself.

00:39:47 ◼   ► And then by the 16th of December, you could order Tonks as a holiday gift for others.

00:39:50 ◼   ► It's a great, great service, great company, great coffee. I really appreciate their continued

00:39:56 ◼   ► support for the talk show. Where do I go to sign up for this? TONX.org. Can you spell that?

00:40:01 ◼   ► T-O-N-X dot O-R-G. Great branding too. I just love it. I love everything about it. I love their

00:40:08 ◼   ► copywriting, everything. Love how it looks like "Strange Love." Oh, it totally does. Look at that.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Okay, I'm signing up.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Ah.

00:40:19 ◼   ► iTunes came out.

00:40:20 ◼   ► What do you think of the new iTunes 11?

00:40:25 ◼   ► I like it.

00:40:26 ◼   ► I, you know, it's—

00:40:27 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I'm hesitating, because I, unfortunately for you, I make copious notes in prepping

00:40:32 ◼   ► for this.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:34 ◼   ► I don't want to be the karma suck.

00:40:35 ◼   ► I don't dislike it, but it's still, you know, it's been a day, right?

00:40:37 ◼   ► We've had it for a day, and as messed up in so many ways as iTunes has been, it's

00:40:43 ◼   ► the devil you know.

00:40:45 ◼   ► And so now I'm... I'd like to hear... It's your show. I'd like to hear you talk about

00:40:49 ◼   ► it because you seem to like it a lot and I want to... As usual with new Apple things,

00:40:55 ◼   ► it seems like you are trying to run pretty stock settings and give the default state

00:41:01 ◼   ► of it kind of a chance, is that correct?

00:41:03 ◼   ► Definitely.

00:41:04 ◼   ► In terms of like how things are displayed. Because that was... My first thing just was

00:41:07 ◼   ► that I was very disorienting to me to open up. I never look at things in either, you

00:41:14 ◼   ► know, cover flow or album mode. It's just not how I think about the stuff I've got.

00:41:18 ◼   ► It's nice to have, but it was so hard for me to figure out what I had to change to make

00:41:23 ◼   ► it where I could find things. But I got a couple thoughts on that, but tell me what

00:41:27 ◼   ► you think.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Steven: Uh, I, you know, I never used album view before either, but I think I am now.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Although I'd still think, as the day has gone on, I do find though that sometimes what I

00:41:39 ◼   ► I want. I know I'm in the mood for the Rolling Stones. I got a whole bunch of stones albums.

00:41:45 ◼   ► But it doesn't seem though that like, like what I want then is to click, go to artists,

00:41:51 ◼   ► and then there's a list of artists clicks the Rolling Stone, and then have the album

00:41:55 ◼   ► view in there. But it doesn't seem like you can get that you get like a like it's album,

00:42:01 ◼   ► but it's more like a list view by album rather than this new magic. Here's just the albums

00:42:06 ◼   ► just click it and you get that nice expanded view underneath. So I'm not 100% sure that

00:42:14 ◼   ► the new stuff has been thoroughly baked conceptually?

00:42:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, there's… I'm getting too far into my list to start with this, but yeah,

00:42:26 ◼   ► one of the things that I find a little baffling in addition to how to get to what is called

00:42:30 ◼   ► list view is you seem to have different options… Well, can I do one meta thing just as a suggestion?

00:42:35 ◼   ► that if you're listening to this and you can, I would suggest opening up a copy of iTunes 11 on your Mac

00:42:42 ◼   ► and

00:42:44 ◼   ► maybe like turn down the slider on your volume really low if you want to play along with this because there's some things that are

00:42:50 ◼   ► going to be easier to explain than to, you know, you know what I mean? Like, do this with me kind of stuff.

00:42:55 ◼   ► It's, I was, like I said, I was a little bewildered when it came up in that album view because, and my first thought was, okay,

00:43:03 ◼   ► Usually I just go click over here in that little tabbed thing where you would say, "Do I want to see this by which of these four methods?"

00:43:11 ◼   ► And I always pick the simplest list way, partly because I'm a real weirdo. One of the things I frequently sort by is "Date Added,"

00:43:18 ◼   ► which I have trouble getting the Music tab to remember, is that I want my default view to almost always be date added.

00:43:27 ◼   ► That seems weird. But that's, you know, I don't think of this in the same way that I

00:43:32 ◼   ► think of a typical library, where I need it to be organized by Dewey Decimal, you know,

00:43:40 ◼   ► or Library of Congress, or alphabetical, just because that's not how I think about the music.

00:43:45 ◼   ► And so, anyway, so my first thought was, "Ahh!" Of course, panic, as with, you know, like

00:43:51 ◼   ► you covered a long time ago, and you ended up being absolutely right about when they

00:43:54 ◼   ► they changed the scroll direction. Of course, you know, I immediately went in with Lion

00:43:58 ◼   ► and made it the other way, but now it totally, I went back to the way it's supposed to be

00:44:03 ◼   ► now and I love it. It makes sense. It makes sense across devices. So, you know, the typical

00:44:07 ◼   ► thing, you're better off to go with Apple's way because that's the way Apple is going.

00:44:11 ◼   ► And so try their way. And I liked it okay. There's a lot of mystery meat navigation and

00:44:18 ◼   ► buttons that I thought were kinda confusing, but I think I'm getting it.

00:44:23 ◼   ► There's one thing I still am confused by. You tooted about this, like how do you get

00:44:27 ◼   ► to column view?

00:44:28 ◼   ► Column browser. It's not clear to me,

00:44:32 ◼   ► like it will be in a couple days probably, like when I'm

00:44:35 ◼   ► eligible to be in column view. Like it's probably really simple.

00:44:39 ◼   ► You click songs. You click songs.

00:44:42 ◼   ► But then there's other stuff for like sometimes

00:44:46 ◼   ► it seems like it changes the way that it presents stuff to you based on like if

00:44:50 ◼   ► you've done a

00:44:50 ◼   ► obviously i think the search thing is pretty great when it shows you like what

00:44:53 ◼   ► you keep your stuff live in the search

00:44:56 ◼   ► but there are some things like the movies view was kinda bewildering to me

00:45:00 ◼   ► uh...

00:45:01 ◼   ► i don't see i i have enough time to say all this correctly but there are several

00:45:05 ◼   ► things about that initially found confusing that i'm now figuring out and

00:45:09 ◼   ► and and in a way i almost wish i could reset it

00:45:11 ◼   ► to how it shipped

00:45:13 ◼   ► just is just to try it again

00:45:15 ◼   ► But, yeah, there's some stuff I really like about it, and a lot of things I find really bewildering.

00:45:20 ◼   ► The number one thing...

00:45:22 ◼   ► Now, this might have been in there before. I'm almost positive it wasn't, 'cause I would try it once a week and it didn't work.

00:45:27 ◼   ► Do you have it open right now?

00:45:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:29 ◼   ► Hit Command-2.

00:45:33 ◼   ► Command-3. Command-4.

00:45:35 ◼   ► What's that doing? I don't even know what I'm doing here.

00:45:37 ◼   ► Look in your side rail over there.

00:45:39 ◼   ► Yeah, see, I don't have the side rail anymore.

00:45:41 ◼   ► Oh, jeez.

00:45:42 ◼   ► It jumps you between Music Movies TV Podcasts.

00:45:44 ◼   ► Which I've wanted forever.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I got that. I see that now.

00:45:48 ◼   ► And that may seem like a small thing, but what I'm doing is when you hit Command-1-2,

00:45:52 ◼   ► sort of like, it takes you to the section of your library for music, movies, TV shows,

00:45:57 ◼   ► which I actually found really useful, mainly because I hop between music and podcasts a lot.

00:46:02 ◼   ► You know, movies and TV shows I tend to watch, I guess for somewhat obvious reasons,

00:46:07 ◼   ► I tend to watch on an iOS device or Apple TV, but for the audio stuff I'm jumping around a lot.

00:46:12 ◼   ► I mean, here's my real quick gut check on this, is that I will probably be using Search

00:46:16 ◼   ► Library a lot more, is my first thought. Because I think it's pretty good. And for getting

00:46:23 ◼   ► to the music I want fast, I have not found a faster way to get there than Search Library.

00:46:27 ◼   ► And it works better. It does, I think. Don't you think it works a lot better than it used

00:46:32 ◼   ► to?

00:46:33 ◼   ► Absolutely. It's got a couple weird—it's got like one pseudo-bug that drives me a little

00:46:38 ◼   ► bit nuts, but it's very fast and it gets me where I want to be.

00:46:42 ◼   ► Trevor Burrus I also like the way that in the search results

00:46:45 ◼   ► that it includes album art wherever it can. Because I do, it just works better for me.

00:46:57 ◼   ► It's like the way that I like the way that Safari uses favicons right there in the URL

00:47:02 ◼   ► bar because it helps me know, like on certain websites, you know, "Oh, I know where I

00:47:08 ◼   ► am."

00:47:09 ◼   ► Absolutely. And I mean, I think as ever—

00:47:12 ◼   ► Like a branding thing. Like, I see that that's the—I know that album. So here it is.

00:47:17 ◼   ► Well, and what's weird about that is it seems like a feature like that would mean

00:47:20 ◼   ► a lot more to people of our generation because we're more accustomed to flipping through

00:47:25 ◼   ► albums, cassettes, or CDs and going, "Oh yeah, this is Houses of the Holy." Or whatever.

00:47:32 ◼   ► I bet there aren't that many people aren't as many people today especially because people download stuff

00:47:36 ◼   ► And it may not have correct album art. I mean I'm constantly saying find the album art and they can't find it

00:47:41 ◼   ► Yeah, me too. I do have that but

00:47:43 ◼   ► And actually I have a tip for that, but I mean like here's one thing. It's a little weird

00:47:47 ◼   ► You want me to try something? Yeah, first of all like are you big on?

00:47:50 ◼   ► Keyboard navigation when you're typing text

00:47:54 ◼   ► Do you do like the command shift and the option shift and all that yeah move through text? Do you do that a lot?

00:47:59 ◼   ► Yeah. Okay, so hit command F and type Tom Petty. Okay. I'm just guessing stuff I think you'll have.

00:48:07 ◼   ► I don't have any Tom Petty. Okay. 43 albums. Okay, so go to select Damn the Torpedoes.

00:48:15 ◼   ► You know, I don't think I have Damn the Torpedoes. I know we have it over there on the CD rack.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I don't think I have it.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Here's a real quick version of this. This is so stupid, but this is the kind of thing that drives

00:48:25 ◼   ► me bananas. Go ahead and play any song. Start playing any song. Any song anywhere.

00:48:29 ◼   ► All right. Are we going to add it as we're going to...

00:48:33 ◼   ► I turned my volume way down on my iTunes.

00:48:35 ◼   ► All right. All right.

00:48:36 ◼   ► So you got a song playing?

00:48:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:40 ◼   ► Okay. And now go to search library and type in Weezer.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:46 ◼   ► Okay. And then act like you misspelled it and actually wanted to type something else. Now me,

00:48:52 ◼   ► I hit Command-Shift-Arrow to select everything that I've just typed.

00:48:56 ◼   ► Yeah, that works for me.

00:48:57 ◼   ► It selects the type.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Okay, do it without the shift to just go to the beginning.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Ah, what did that do?

00:49:07 ◼   ► Next, oh, I see.

00:49:09 ◼   ► Yeah, without the shift.

00:49:10 ◼   ► Okay, now that's it.

00:49:12 ◼   ► Now what it just did for me was it started that song that's playing again.

00:49:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:16 ◼   ► Because it's totally natural behavior in iTunes to hit Command, left and right arrow.

00:49:22 ◼   ► Yep, next previous track.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Now, that's probably expected behavior for most people, because who uses that kind of

00:49:27 ◼   ► nonsense?

00:49:28 ◼   ► But it is a weird thing, like Tom Petty.

00:49:30 ◼   ► iTunes to me has always felt like an app that works okay.

00:49:34 ◼   ► I'm not going to get into iCloud.

00:49:37 ◼   ► Like iCloud, like a lot of things, like Address Book, they're pretty great things for a casual

00:49:42 ◼   ► user to have a moderate amount of data in. It's just that now, especially with iTunes

00:49:48 ◼   ► Match, I have so much stuff in here and I'm, you know, I find myself on the one hand like

00:49:54 ◼   ► being appreciative of this looking prettier and stuff, but right now it doesn't feel,

00:49:58 ◼   ► there's still stuff about it that makes me feel like it's not that much faster for

00:50:02 ◼   ► power users. And for people who want to become power users, there's still a lot of opacity

00:50:08 ◼   ► that I would like to see less opaque, personally.

00:50:12 ◼   ► Do you know what I mean?

00:50:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so. - What record

00:50:16 ◼   ► are you on right now?

00:50:17 ◼   ► Are you on a record?

00:50:18 ◼   ► Can you see like-- - I'm on the,

00:50:20 ◼   ► Pack Up the Plantation Live.

00:50:22 ◼   ► - Okay, and are you at that view

00:50:23 ◼   ► where you get like the artist and you get like the,

00:50:26 ◼   ► can you see like play, shuffle, arrow,

00:50:29 ◼   ► all of those next to the name of the artist?

00:50:31 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

00:50:32 ◼   ► - Okay, something else over play.

00:50:34 ◼   ► - Okay, got it.

00:50:37 ◼   ► - What do you get?

00:50:38 ◼   ► Nothing.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Okay.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Mouse over that arrow on the right.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Right.

00:50:43 ◼   ► Nothing.

00:50:44 ◼   ► But I can click it.

00:50:45 ◼   ► I mean, if I click it, something will happen.

00:50:47 ◼   ► Do most people do that?

00:50:49 ◼   ► Do they click?

00:50:50 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:50:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:52 ◼   ► Like, you go to the thing with the list view, like the LI view up in the, which is, as we

00:50:57 ◼   ► all know now, up next.

00:50:58 ◼   ► Like mouse over that.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Like, why is there not mouse over text for that?

00:51:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:02 ◼   ► I guess there could be some kind of, you know, like, if you, you know, like a web page, like

00:51:06 ◼   ► you pause for a little bit, pause for a little bit and it'll hover something.

00:51:09 ◼   ► And now go, now, now...

00:51:11 ◼   ► And that's my complaint with that, that, that mysterious cloud icon next to the, the top

00:51:17 ◼   ► left thing where you pick music, movies, TV shows.

00:51:19 ◼   ► Yeah, what is that, what is that for?

00:51:20 ◼   ► Is that for, I think, I think that means update my iCloud.

00:51:23 ◼   ► Yeah, but clicking it doesn't do anything.

00:51:25 ◼   ► Eye match.

00:51:26 ◼   ► Really?

00:51:27 ◼   ► And hovering doesn't show anything.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Yeah, and right now mine is animating.

00:51:29 ◼   ► I've got these little diagonal lines.

00:51:30 ◼   ► I think that means it's updating, I think that means it's updating your collection.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Yeah, but I don't know, but I, so I understand that while it's updating why they would show me that, but when it's not

00:51:38 ◼   ► updating and it's just an empty cloud, I really don't know why they show me that. There's a cloud there that I can't do anything with.

00:51:45 ◼   ► I can't click it. I can't control click it.

00:51:47 ◼   ► Well, and to be pedantic, I'll say again, just because it is standard in every other Mac app and web page,

00:51:53 ◼   ► I mean, do you ever go to preferences in a, in,

00:51:55 ◼   ► this is like in almost every Mac app, and I think there are a lot of people that don't know this, so it's worth mentioning.

00:52:00 ◼   ► mentioning. If you have somewhere where there are selections to be made, like in preferences,

00:52:05 ◼   ► in almost every Mac app and every good Mac app, if you have a choice between four radio

00:52:09 ◼   ► buttons, you can mouse over a radio button, whether it's selected or not, and it'll tell

00:52:13 ◼   ► you what happens when you click that.

00:52:15 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:16 ◼   ► Which I think is kind of cool. So, to me, if I mouse over that cloud, like, what the

00:52:19 ◼   ► hell does that mean? If I mouse over that, it should say, for example, in my case, I

00:52:23 ◼   ► have a white cloud, which, a fluffy white cloud, which I guess means everything's copacetic.

00:52:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:28 ◼   ► But, like, now go a bit less on these, I hope, but go back to, like, the view of that Plantation

00:52:34 ◼   ► record and click Play, the little arrow next to the artist name.

00:52:38 ◼   ► Right. Got it.

00:52:40 ◼   ► Well, okay, then click Play again.

00:52:42 ◼   ► All right.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Like, oh, well, shouldn't that be Pause?

00:52:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it does.

00:52:48 ◼   ► Shouldn't that turn to Pause?

00:52:49 ◼   ► Yeah, it's weird. It doesn't turn to Pause. What happens instead is every time you hit

00:52:51 ◼   ► Play, it just restarts the song.

00:52:53 ◼   ► Which again, maybe that's silly, but in the way that this works, I want this to be...

00:52:58 ◼   ► Hey, they've chosen modality. That's fine. Let's live with modality.

00:53:01 ◼   ► But to me, modality means I should be able to do something like hit 1 for music,

00:53:06 ◼   ► and if I tab... Well, the thing is, I've got, you know, the universal access on,

00:53:10 ◼   ► so it goes to like freaking everything.

00:53:12 ◼   ► But I mean, if you look at this, if you'd never run this app before and you opened up,

00:53:16 ◼   ► I just feel like there's so much opacity to like what all this means.

00:53:20 ◼   ► like, "Okay, so I mouse over the name of the album, and then now I get an arrow next

00:53:23 ◼   ► to it, which gives me options." But it's almost like a play button. Do you know what

00:53:29 ◼   ► I'm talking about?

00:53:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:31 ◼   ► If you go up to that little view, dingus. I mean, that's cool. Like, I'll get used

00:53:33 ◼   ► to that. But, hmm, I don't know. I mean, I mean, to just bitch about it. There's

00:53:37 ◼   ► a lot about it that I like better. I wish these fonts weren't so big.

00:53:40 ◼   ► Well, here's one that I find interesting, and I'm not quite sure. I guess it's one

00:53:46 ◼   ► One of those things where…

00:53:49 ◼   ► I always come back to the analogy, the Disney analogy, the guy on Pirates of the Caribbean,

00:53:54 ◼   ► the one pirate who's got a foot on the dock, one foot on a boat, a handful, like a treasure

00:53:59 ◼   ► chest and like 13 hats on his head.

00:54:03 ◼   ► And he's teetering because it's, you know, how the hell are you going to get on a boat?

00:54:06 ◼   ► How are you going to get off the shore onto a boat that's on the water doing that?

00:54:10 ◼   ► That's like the hardest thing in the world is going from the old thing that was stable…

00:54:13 ◼   ► some kind of David Blaine thing.

00:54:15 ◼   ► To the new thing. And I feel like that's where iTunes is, and a lot of Mac stuff is for Apple,

00:54:22 ◼   ► is that they know they've got the new thing, which is a lot simpler and doesn't have the

00:54:27 ◼   ► cruft and the baggage and all this historical stuff, which is iOS. And they got the old

00:54:32 ◼   ► thing, which is the Mac, which is really, really powerful and lets you do all sorts

00:54:37 ◼   ► of stuff you still can't do on iOS. So how do they get from there to here? And it's really,

00:54:41 ◼   ► really hard. So here's my perfect example of that. One foot on the shore, one foot on a boat that's

00:54:47 ◼   ► already on the water and isn't even tied up, is go to a song in this expanded view thing, and you

00:54:54 ◼   ► hover over the song title, and you get that little right-pointing chevron. You know what I mean? It's

00:55:00 ◼   ► like a— So like if I go back to my Tom Petty record, I'm going to search by artist. See,

00:55:05 ◼   ► even this view—okay, so I'm by artist and I'm on Damned Torpedoes. Like, so next to "Refugee,"

00:55:10 ◼   ► I click on the what looks like a closing bracket.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Yeah, like a, it's like a greater than sign in a circle.

00:55:16 ◼   ► And what do you get?

00:55:17 ◼   ► It does the same choices as what you got up in the thing.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Play next to next, that one.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:23 ◼   ► So it's like a contextual menu, right?

00:55:24 ◼   ► Now.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like control clicking.

00:55:27 ◼   ► What happens, yeah, but what happens if you control click on the song?

00:55:31 ◼   ► You get an entirely different menu.

00:55:33 ◼   ► Oh, come on.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Right?

00:55:35 ◼   ► Control click on it.

00:55:36 ◼   ► I did.

00:55:37 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:38 ◼   ► I can't believe it.

00:55:39 ◼   ► a regular Mac style contextual menu. It's, you know, it's right out of the system frameworks.

00:55:46 ◼   ► It's a regular system standard wide menu. It's in Lucida Grande, the system font. If

00:55:52 ◼   ► you go to one with a submenu, the submenu, as soon as you hover over it, it pops off

00:55:57 ◼   ► to the side, right? Now, look at the new one, the one in that little chevron menu. When

00:56:01 ◼   ► you click that –

00:56:02 ◼   ► **BEN HONG/JENNY LENHARDT**

00:56:03 ◼   ► Oh, genius suggestions. That's cool.

00:56:04 ◼   ► **JEFF DEIST**

00:56:05 ◼   ► Well, but does it open when you hover over it?

00:56:06 ◼   ► **BEN HONG/JENNY LENHARDT**

00:56:07 ◼   ► again, so I'm control-clicking.

00:56:08 ◼   ► Okay. No, no, not control-clicking. Don't control-click.

00:56:11 ◼   ► Okay, sorry.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Go back to the one that you just regular click on, the chevron, I don't know what you want

00:56:15 ◼   ► to call it.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Okay, got it.

00:56:17 ◼   ► Right? Now, you go down, there's one, like, genius suggestions, add to, the ones that

00:56:19 ◼   ► have another menu off to the side.

00:56:22 ◼   ► Huh.

00:56:23 ◼   ► It doesn't open when you hover over. You have to click on it.

00:56:26 ◼   ► Oh, my God, really?

00:56:27 ◼   ► Click on it, and then it slides in.

00:56:30 ◼   ► Oh, come on. Okay.

00:56:31 ◼   ► All right.

00:56:32 ◼   ► I guess I could get used to that, but that's really weird.

00:56:35 ◼   ► Well, it is really weird and very different for the Mac, but I do think that for most

00:56:41 ◼   ► people – I think it's a reasonable argument to be made that this is the way submenus –

00:56:46 ◼   ► Because it works like iOS.

00:56:47 ◼   ► It works like iOS.

00:56:48 ◼   ► This is the way submenus always should have worked.

00:56:50 ◼   ► And everybody knows – all the usability studies show that hierarchical menus, you

00:56:56 ◼   ► lose easily 95 percent of all users.

00:56:59 ◼   ► As soon as you go to a menu and you go down and there's a little thing to the right

00:57:03 ◼   ► and there's a submenu, people –

00:57:04 ◼   ► This is actually pretty well done, and the plus sign next to it, this is actually pretty

00:57:08 ◼   ► cool once you understand it.

00:57:10 ◼   ► Right, but it's absolutely, it's not like a regular menu at all.

00:57:15 ◼   ► And you know, I sat there and hovered over it waiting for it to open for like 10 seconds,

00:57:20 ◼   ► and then I thought, well, if I click, oh, and then it slides into place and it's animated

00:57:24 ◼   ► and it's really nice and you can go back.

00:57:26 ◼   ► But it's totally unlike a standard Mac contextual menu, and the standard Mac contextual menu

00:57:32 ◼   ► is still there, which offers an entirely different set of things you can do to the song.

00:57:36 ◼   ► Steven: It offers a lot more stuff.

00:57:37 ◼   ► Steven. Although actually it doesn't, they're not, but they're not even separate though.

00:57:41 ◼   ► There's, so you could do play next from both menus, right?

00:57:44 ◼   ► Steven. Yeah, but you can't do get album artwork from the new.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Steven. Right. The new one is very limited. The other one, the standard Mac one has all sorts of

00:57:51 ◼   ► complicated. So all this, the nerdy stuff is still hidden in the control click one,

00:57:55 ◼   ► like create AAC version. Reset plays.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Do you think that's one of those, you know, I don't know, you probably have a name for

00:58:04 ◼   ► this, but one of the things like allowing you to do reverse scrolling, you think this

00:58:08 ◼   ► is one of those, like, a legacy thing for the nerds?

00:58:10 ◼   ► Yeah, sort of, I think.

00:58:11 ◼   ► Or is it just, yeah?

00:58:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:13 ◼   ► Because I don't think that they, I don't think they could get rid of the, well, they

00:58:16 ◼   ► could get rid of it, but I think that, you know, they obviously haven't, they haven't

00:58:19 ◼   ► really gotten rid of anything in iTunes.

00:58:21 ◼   ► You can still do everything you used to be able to do.

00:58:23 ◼   ► Do you listen to, you don't listen to that mini podcast, right?

00:58:26 ◼   ► To the what?

00:58:27 ◼   ► You don't listen to too many podcasts, right?

00:58:29 ◼   ► I don't.

00:58:30 ◼   ► Well, one of the things if you... a feature I've always really liked, and again I'm ready

00:58:33 ◼   ► to be wrong about this, but hit whatever command four or go to podcasts.

00:58:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:37 ◼   ► This is another example of that.

00:58:38 ◼   ► One of the things I used to really love is like I would go, "Oh, like I..."

00:58:42 ◼   ► This is something I subscribed to a while ago.

00:58:43 ◼   ► I don't want to unsubscribe, but I also don't want to see that there's 35 episodes I haven't

00:58:47 ◼   ► listened to.

00:58:48 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:49 ◼   ► And it used to be a control click to say, "Mark All As Played" or "Mark All As Unplayed."

00:58:53 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:54 ◼   ► And now if you go to the title and you click on it, you do get the old school, you know,

00:58:59 ◼   ► presumably the same you know I mean the whatever you want to call it the old school

00:59:03 ◼   ► Contextual menu contextual menu, but that's gone now. Yeah mark all is red is not there. I don't see it

00:59:10 ◼   ► Yeah, well you know whatever that seems weird, but I actually use that a lot in our assess readers

00:59:14 ◼   ► I use that a lot in if I've been away for from a high-volume site for a few days

00:59:20 ◼   ► I'll just frequently say mark all is red if if it's not anything too current that is that is that's an unusual decision

00:59:26 ◼   ► It's a better decision. I mean I was driven crazy

00:59:28 ◼   ► I went to a site the other day of this artist, this comic artist I like, and it has the usual

00:59:34 ◼   ► kind of old-school navigation where it's like, what do they used to call it, when you get

00:59:39 ◼   ► the drop-down menus.

00:59:40 ◼   ► So you click, and you say, "Okay, show me gallery," and then gallery has four or five

00:59:45 ◼   ► selections.

00:59:46 ◼   ► You say, "Oh, cool, comic covers."

00:59:47 ◼   ► You click comic covers.

00:59:49 ◼   ► And when you click comic covers, it gives you different publishers.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Okay?

00:59:55 ◼   ► I click Marvel.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And then when I get to Marvel, it's different like series.

01:00:00 ◼   ► And it's like none of those things become content until you get to the very, very end.

01:00:06 ◼   ► And as it happened on this site in iOS, even when you got to the end, it didn't do anything.

01:00:09 ◼   ► I'm guessing it was kind of like wonky JavaScript or something.

01:00:12 ◼   ► But no, that's always been a totally flawed way to deal with that.

01:00:16 ◼   ► And I think, you know, when did contextual menus come along on OS X or on Macs?

01:00:22 ◼   ► No, it was sometime in the Mac OS 9 era.

01:00:26 ◼   ► Right, right. But I mean, it's, you know, even then...

01:00:28 ◼   ► Mac OS 8, maybe? Sometimes in Mac OS 8.

01:00:30 ◼   ► I bet there was something somewhat grudging about that decision because Windows had already

01:00:35 ◼   ► done that, right? That was a huge...Windows' right-clicking was something that people...setting

01:00:41 ◼   ► aside the one-button, two-button thing, whatever, but not...people used to do that so often

01:00:46 ◼   ► in Windows. I think it's much more of the pattern of using Windows, at least in those

01:00:50 ◼   ► days.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Oh, definitely.

01:00:52 ◼   ► So, even then, that might have felt like a satisfy--not a satisficing, but, you know,

01:00:55 ◼   ► a not totally embraced decision to do that. But, you know, it's never been fun. Like,

01:01:02 ◼   ► right now, my services menu--and yes, I know there are things to clean this up, but owing

01:01:06 ◼   ► to things like Brett Terpstra's Markdown stuff and a lot of other things I've added,

01:01:11 ◼   ► my services menu is crazy now, or I guess I should say my contextual menu in the Finder.

01:01:17 ◼   ► And given that, the width of the contextual menu is governed by the name of the longest

01:01:22 ◼   ► item.

01:01:23 ◼   ► Ah, yeah.

01:01:24 ◼   ► It's giant, and it's got like 30 things in it.

01:01:27 ◼   ► It doesn't look like a menu, it looks like a window.

01:01:30 ◼   ► It kind of does.

01:01:31 ◼   ► It looks like a literal menu, like in a restaurant.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:01:34 ◼   ► But, you know, I think the one that I use, this is actually, I try to be helpful, I think

01:01:37 ◼   ► it's called Services Manager, is the one that I use.

01:01:39 ◼   ► Oh, I never heard of it.

01:01:40 ◼   ► Services Manager lets you go in and change without having to go to that awful thing on

01:01:45 ◼   ► the Apple.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Yeah, open up Services Manager.

01:01:47 ◼   ► You can go in and turn services off very easily.

01:01:52 ◼   ► You can, so if you do leave it on,

01:01:55 ◼   ► you can set whether it appears in context menus,

01:01:57 ◼   ► and you can set the key commands all from here.

01:01:59 ◼   ► Which, you know, the truth is though,

01:02:02 ◼   ► any power user who's gone to keyboard to do this,

01:02:06 ◼   ► it's, I don't know about you,

01:02:07 ◼   ► but the fastest Mac I've ever been on,

01:02:09 ◼   ► I still get a beach ball waiting for services to update.

01:02:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, totally. - Right?

01:02:13 ◼   ► And then the other nice thing here is that then you can say,

01:02:16 ◼   ► is a number of allowed items in context menu and you could say you want two,

01:02:21 ◼   ► three, four, five, six, ten, unlimited. So you can choose how many things. So

01:02:24 ◼   ► personally I think contextual menus are way underused by most people, especially

01:02:27 ◼   ► in the Finder or for that matter in, you know, BB Edit or TextMate. There's so

01:02:32 ◼   ► much stuff that you can do with those services. You're a services fan, right? You

01:02:36 ◼   ► pointed me to that services maker thing a few years ago.

01:02:41 ◼   ► You can take a shell script and make it into a service. Service, what was it called?

01:02:44 ◼   ► service? I forget what that's called. I know it's by a guy named Jesper. This

01:02:50 ◼   ► service? This service, that's right. And that's sort of semi obviated by

01:02:54 ◼   ► Automator as of like Lion, where Lion lets you make. Yeah, theoretically.

01:03:00 ◼   ► Although I think this service is one that's a little bit more efficient. For somebody

01:03:04 ◼   ► who knows anything about Unix, which is not me, the idea of input output or

01:03:07 ◼   ► filter is pretty transparent. Right. But anyway, I'm getting off the topic, but I

01:03:13 ◼   ► I don't know. I mean, I think I'm going to get used to this, but there's...

01:03:18 ◼   ► Do you have any trouble with Command-L?

01:03:20 ◼   ► I feel like I'm sometimes getting trouble with Command-L working or not working, and I rely on that very heavily.

01:03:26 ◼   ► In what app?

01:03:27 ◼   ► Sorry, in iTunes. Hit Command-L, takes you to the currently playing song.

01:03:31 ◼   ► Oh, I didn't know that.

01:03:32 ◼   ► Oh, dude. That's a lifesaver.

01:03:34 ◼   ► That's nice.

01:03:36 ◼   ► So you probably haven't had a problem with that.

01:03:39 ◼   ► I'll tell you one that's driving me nuts. Do you ever open playlists in a new window like I'll say

01:03:43 ◼   ► I want to make a new playlist for a road trip

01:03:45 ◼   ► I'll create the new playlist and then create it in a new open it in a new window whichever do that in iTunes I have

01:03:50 ◼   ► Previously I'll go double-click one of them now

01:03:53 ◼   ► Womp womp right it doesn't go in a new window, and you don't get it's all officially a one window out right yeah

01:04:00 ◼   ► I like but here's a here's an interesting decision that they've made which I think is

01:04:05 ◼   ► is new, and I'm not sure, I don't want to pass judgment either way on it yet, because I'm not sure, is the way that

01:04:12 ◼   ► in the interest of showing fewer things on screen at once,

01:04:16 ◼   ► they don't show the sidebar unless you want to turn on old-fashioned mode, but as soon as you start dragging a song,

01:04:22 ◼   ► your playlists open up from the side.

01:04:26 ◼   ► Oh, I'm gonna have to try that. So just grab any song and start dragging it.

01:04:31 ◼   ► Sorry, I get stuck on the talk site here, signing up.

01:04:35 ◼   ► I should multitask. So, I'm taking a song from anywhere and I start dragging it, correct?

01:04:40 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:42 ◼   ► And what am I looking to do? On the right side, doesn't a list of devices and playlists

01:04:47 ◼   ► comes into... that isn't always there, only when you're dragging.

01:04:51 ◼   ► You start dragging and you get a little list, it slides in from the right, of

01:04:55 ◼   ► devices and playlists. So you could add a song to a device or you could add a song

01:04:58 ◼   ► to a playlist.

01:05:00 ◼   ► I'm in an album, I'm in music, I'm looking at AC Newman's "Get Guilty."

01:05:05 ◼   ► Are you talking about hitting the chevron?

01:05:07 ◼   ► Just drag the song.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Drag and drop.

01:05:09 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

01:05:10 ◼   ► Drag it like you're moving it somewhere.

01:05:12 ◼   ► And then off the side of the right side, you don't get a...

01:05:15 ◼   ► You don't get a...

01:05:16 ◼   ► No, maybe I'm in the wrong view.

01:05:17 ◼   ► Let me try it by songs.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Let's see if it works if I'm in songs.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I was in albums.

01:05:22 ◼   ► It should be anywhere.

01:05:23 ◼   ► As soon as you start dragging, you get a little thing from the side.

01:05:26 ◼   ► I'm not getting that.

01:05:29 ◼   ► I wonder if I have something turned off.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know how that's...

01:05:33 ◼   ► Here, I'll take a look.

01:05:35 ◼   ► That sounds like a great idea.

01:05:36 ◼   ► So it immediately gets that, hey, they're grabbing this because they want to put this

01:05:39 ◼   ► someplace.

01:05:40 ◼   ► Let me give them the option.

01:05:41 ◼   ► Right, but it's very untraditional, though, that the destination isn't visible until you

01:05:48 ◼   ► start dragging, and then as soon as you're done dragging, it goes away.

01:05:52 ◼   ► Because you have to know...

01:05:53 ◼   ► The only way you would...

01:05:54 ◼   ► You have to know it before you would try it.

01:05:56 ◼   ► That's kind of what I was trying to get at with.

01:05:58 ◼   ► wasn't trying to be a dick about it. That's kind of what I was trying to get out with

01:06:00 ◼   ► the opacity about those icons is in my experience, in my very small bit of user

01:06:05 ◼   ► experience stuff, people are not too excited about clicking something unless

01:06:10 ◼   ► they know what's going to happen. That goes back to the days of wondering if

01:06:13 ◼   ► you were going to reformat your hard drive. That sounds silly to nerds, but

01:06:16 ◼   ► there are a lot of people who will not just click. I mean, look at how many

01:06:19 ◼   ► things in this interface have an arrow, to be honest. Look, that's one way to look

01:06:24 ◼   ► at it. If you go back to album view and go look at a Tom Petty record, I mean,

01:06:27 ◼   ► I mean, there are so many arrows. There's an arrow for iCloud. There's a chevron.

01:06:32 ◼   ► Was that the right word? Like a brack chevron? Whatever. Not a chevron, but like there's a bracket for your contextual menu.

01:06:38 ◼   ► There's a contextual menu one for each song when you mouse over. There's a contextual menu one for the app.

01:06:44 ◼   ► There's two intermingled arrows, meaning shuffle. There is an arrow, a, you know, a sideways triangle for play.

01:06:53 ◼   ► Then much of those things are repeated in the thing at the top

01:06:57 ◼   ► There's and then of course is the big arrows for play rewind Etc. I mean almost every piece of interface in this is some kind of

01:07:03 ◼   ► an arrow

01:07:05 ◼   ► And and and that to me

01:07:06 ◼   ► I would you know even I've used this stuff for a while, and I still look at that and go well

01:07:10 ◼   ► I know what shuffle means you know what I mean. Hey, do you have the sidebar showing yes?

01:07:16 ◼   ► All right turn off the huts hide the sidebar hide sidebar now now drag us on okay that must be it

01:07:22 ◼   ► Let's see, now I want to go to my clicking, I'm clicking.

01:07:27 ◼   ► Oh!

01:07:30 ◼   ► That's neat.

01:07:31 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:32 ◼   ► So it doesn't happen if you have the sidebar showing because you don't need it.

01:07:35 ◼   ► But if you hide the sidebar, which is the default view, when you drag a song, this right

01:07:42 ◼   ► side sidebar of destinations where you might want to drop a song, devices and playlists

01:07:48 ◼   ► appears.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Adding it to a device.

01:07:51 ◼   ► That is really interesting. I'm on my non-primary iTunes, so I do have my ticket through my

01:07:56 ◼   ► Air, and so I'm on my ancient Mac Pro right now. And if I sync it to grab it to device,

01:08:01 ◼   ► it probably won't work. But this is pretty sweet.

01:08:03 ◼   ► Right. Well, there's a way that you can pick a movie or show to load up on your iPad before

01:08:07 ◼   ► you head off to the Air.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Is it doing that locally, or is it saying, "Go be wise and get this from the cloud on

01:08:12 ◼   ► that device"?

01:08:13 ◼   ► I think it's – if it's by USB, it'll copy it by USB, and if you have the device set

01:08:18 ◼   ► up to sync over Wi-Fi, it'll push it over Wi-Fi.

01:08:21 ◼   ► It won't just do it by iCloud, though. It'll do it over your local Wi-Fi.

01:08:24 ◼   ► Well, two, I mean, like, two things, two great things that have been there forever that are

01:08:28 ◼   ► still worth telling people about are the "Add to." So, like, or, see, now this is crazy.

01:08:34 ◼   ► So, if you use the new non-contextual clicky chevron next to a song, you get "Add to,"

01:08:41 ◼   ► click "Add to," and you can add it to a playlist.

01:08:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:08:44 ◼   ► That's, I think that's a great feature. But, now, do the contextual menu version of that

01:08:48 ◼   ► and you get something even cooler, which is "Show in Playlist." Do you ever use that

01:08:51 ◼   ► ever used that? I use that all the time. So let's say, if you're like me and you've got

01:08:55 ◼   ► a million playlists like the Doofus, you might want to say, "Oh, I want this in that Party

01:09:00 ◼   ► 1999 shuffle. Show me it in there and play it in that context." Or something I used to

01:09:05 ◼   ► love back on the Creative--

01:09:07 ◼   ► Well, that is a good feature.

01:09:08 ◼   ► Yeah, and something I used to do back on--I think it was on the Creative, maybe on the

01:09:11 ◼   ► Diamond Rio player, was in a shuffle--in the middle of a shuffle, there was a dingus for

01:09:16 ◼   ► saying, "Continue playing." It was along the lines of, "Play this." By clicking

01:09:21 ◼   ► whatever it's called, it functionally started playing it as the track it was on the record.

01:09:26 ◼   ► So if you, if "Rocks Off" came up, you could say, "Continue playing album," and

01:09:31 ◼   ► then it would play the rest of "Exile on Main Street."

01:09:34 ◼   ► Ah, that's a great feature.

01:09:36 ◼   ► It's a great feature.

01:09:37 ◼   ► Because there are certain songs where when I hear them, then I immediately want to hear

01:09:40 ◼   ► it. That usually happens to me with Zeppelin songs, is as soon as I hear one, I need to

01:09:43 ◼   ► hear the one that I know comes next.

01:09:45 ◼   ► chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga.

01:09:47 ◼   ► What I do in that case, for what it's worth, is hit Command-L to show me the playing track,

01:09:51 ◼   ► and then I'll say, then I'll do that right-click to show in that album.

01:09:55 ◼   ► So it can show you just in the straight-up legitimate album, or you can hit, of course,

01:09:59 ◼   ► the revealing arrow to take you to that album. One weird thing that's been happening forever in

01:10:04 ◼   ► iTunes that drives me nuts, you know, you can go in and flick, I don't know if I did this with

01:10:08 ◼   ► Onyx or whether I did it legitimately, but you know where you can change the arrow to mean

01:10:14 ◼   ► iTunes store or yeah, so I had it set to show to me in the collection was the weirdest thing like yesterday

01:10:20 ◼   ► I was like I want to go to the danger mouse record

01:10:22 ◼   ► I clicked the arrow and it took me to everything by danger mouse even though I clicked on the album

01:10:26 ◼   ► I thought was kind of weird, but you know I mean this is this is the thing I mean yeah

01:10:31 ◼   ► It was sort of like it

01:10:31 ◼   ► There was like a hidden preference that was more or less like stop trying to upsell me well

01:10:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it used to be I guess a p-list II thing that on like on one of those onyx or you know yeah

01:10:39 ◼   ► There's apps. What do you use for stuff like that?

01:10:42 ◼   ► I usually, honestly, I use like the terminal and I just type the defaults right com dot.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Oh, interesting. Okay, but you don't go in and do stuff like hide desktop or…

01:10:55 ◼   ► Not anymore, no.

01:10:56 ◼   ► Change the font size in my finder sidebar?

01:10:58 ◼   ► No, no.

01:10:59 ◼   ► God, you're a pussy.

01:11:00 ◼   ► No, I've given up on all that.

01:11:01 ◼   ► I remember it was about the music. Yeah, good for you. Good for you, moved on. But you know

01:11:06 ◼   ► what's interesting? I mean, the big trend everybody, you and all your buddies always

01:11:10 ◼   ► talk about that is actually turning out to be pretty interesting is this move toward

01:11:17 ◼   ► being more iOS-like, which I think is entirely sensible, you know, in a lot of ways. I think

01:11:23 ◼   ► for file management, it's an almost utter failure, but for stuff like this, I get why

01:11:29 ◼   ► they do it. It's a shame that iTunes on my iPad is one of the worst apps I have ever

01:11:34 ◼   ► used in my entire life. But if they can improve the desktop version by taking some of those

01:11:40 ◼   ► patterns. I'm all for it. Once you get the iCloud thing, it's really clear. I'm

01:11:46 ◼   ► looking at, you know, what am I looking at? Abba's Definitive Collection. It's very clear.

01:11:49 ◼   ► Oh my god, that's what I'm looking at. Abba Gold. Greatest Hits. Shut up. Honest to god. I got that too.

01:11:53 ◼   ► I got that too with no album art. Boom. Yeah. Oh yeah. Let me see here. Get some

01:11:58 ◼   ► Dancing Queen going. Yeah! Oh god, that's great. It's such a good record. Oh man, I listen to that

01:12:03 ◼   ► every day. Yeah, we've got Gold and the Definitive Collection. Used to be the

01:12:06 ◼   ► only thing that will help our daughter go to sleep. Play count, 1992. Oh, really? Oh,

01:12:12 ◼   ► no, wait, no, that's the year the album came out. I did a screen grab of ours the other

01:12:16 ◼   ► day and it was like, "Everlong," which looked like lullabies in "Everlong." Title. No,

01:12:23 ◼   ► you've got to have a couple of Springsteen songs at the top. Yeah, you know, I reset

01:12:28 ◼   ► a while back. Thunder Road was way high, but, you know, having a kid screws it up, because

01:12:34 ◼   ► Because now we've got—I love They Might Be Giants, but I don't listen to Fibber Island

01:12:39 ◼   ► quite as much as my daughter.

01:12:41 ◼   ► Well, ours is still—it's permanent, I mean, until one of us, or both of us, I guess,

01:12:46 ◼   ► eventually lose our iTunes history.

01:12:48 ◼   ► But ours is Yellow Submarine.

01:12:49 ◼   ► Oh, that's right.

01:12:50 ◼   ► That was your go-to.

01:12:51 ◼   ► That was our go-to that when Jonas was a crybaby infant, that was the red button underneath

01:13:01 ◼   ► the protective glass cover.

01:13:03 ◼   ► last resort. If this doesn't work, we don't know what we're we may have to drop

01:13:07 ◼   ► turn keys sir right we yeah we both had to turn the key we both had to agree

01:13:13 ◼   ► let's go to yellow submarine and it never let us down I remember when you

01:13:18 ◼   ► talked about on the other talk show I was walking around New Zealand and you

01:13:21 ◼   ► were talking about that I remember that for us now yeah you know I got my kid

01:13:24 ◼   ► into Queen it's been amazing oh that's good but the thing is here's the thing

01:13:27 ◼   ► about the yellow submarine thing that made the play count so high it was that

01:13:30 ◼   ► Once you went to yellow submarine you had to replay it. They had to keep going you had to keep going until they went to sleep

01:13:35 ◼   ► He'd stopped crying. He would smile. He would get happy fault. You had to follow through had to keep going

01:13:40 ◼   ► Just yellow submarine over and over and over

01:13:43 ◼   ► our plate count on that song is just

01:13:46 ◼   ► It's right. No, we had that we had a similar thing. Well for a long time for us

01:13:50 ◼   ► It was drier sound and it was they had like had like 14,000 plays or whatever because we were just we had we had one

01:13:56 ◼   ► I um

01:13:57 ◼   ► What's the little tiny one?

01:13:59 ◼   ► Ipod Mini?

01:14:00 ◼   ► We had a hair dryer.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Well, no, this is –

01:14:03 ◼   ► It was a 45-minute track of a hair dryer.

01:14:06 ◼   ► Here's what you do when you're real stupid and have a little too much money at the time.

01:14:10 ◼   ► I had one Ipod Mini that was nothing but the dryer sound.

01:14:15 ◼   ► we went, I could plug it in and hit play, and there would just be "Aaaargh!"

01:14:21 ◼   ► For those of you who don't know, the kids like – there are certain white noise –

01:14:26 ◼   ► Certain white noise! Some of them don't like running water.

01:14:29 ◼   ► Right, but your kid might have a – and Jonas' was a hairdryer. And you can go and you can

01:14:35 ◼   ► quick Google these things and you can just download the sound of a hairdryer. I remember

01:14:39 ◼   ► it used to always make me think, obviously, completely irrationally, that playing the

01:14:45 ◼   ► hair dryer sound was wasting so much energy. And then I would think—

01:14:51 ◼   ► Talk about skeuomorphism.

01:14:52 ◼   ► I—and I would—and then I—every time we went to it, I would think, "God, it's—all right,

01:14:57 ◼   ► it's—shut them up, this is great. God, I can't believe how much money we're going to spend on—"

01:15:00 ◼   ► And then I think, "Oh, no, of course not!" But it—every single time, it would make me think we

01:15:05 ◼   ► were—we were blowing a bunch of money, but screw it.

01:15:07 ◼   ► It's worth it.

01:15:09 ◼   ► It's worth it.

01:15:09 ◼   ► can't believe you had a book

01:15:12 ◼   ► that's in that we're at some creepy you know here's the thing here's the thing

01:15:15 ◼   ► that i see is the big scale

01:15:18 ◼   ► big picture trend that i was is leading is is

01:15:22 ◼   ► it is about contextual miss

01:15:24 ◼   ► and it's about

01:15:26 ◼   ► visual

01:15:28 ◼   ► uh...

01:15:29 ◼   ► obviousness

01:15:31 ◼   ► and so the the reason that

01:15:34 ◼   ► contextual menus worked in windows is that it does make a lot of sense where

01:15:38 ◼   ► what you in a certain way where you're saying look I've got this thing here it

01:15:42 ◼   ► is a file or it's a shortcut on my desk so many things I could do to a file

01:15:48 ◼   ► right right and so I mean in that from the desktop especially right and before

01:15:53 ◼   ► contextual menus it would be like well you had this one gesture that Apple

01:15:59 ◼   ► popularized drag-and-drop but you only got one thing out of that it was you

01:16:04 ◼   ► know typically you drag it over and it would open you know you would drag this

01:16:07 ◼   ► thing to a file or to an application and it would open. And I know that there are certain

01:16:13 ◼   ► gestures like a Mac, I don't, I can't speak in Windows. And there were ways to modify

01:16:17 ◼   ► drag and drop with modifier keys where if you drag and drop something with the option

01:16:22 ◼   ► key down in the finder, you're making a copy.

01:16:25 ◼   ► Jared Ranerelle>> It's a copy and alias. So if you have the service, you can do a symbolic

01:16:29 ◼   ► link.

01:16:30 ◼   ► Pete Turner>> But number one, I mean, but that's way out in the weeds and very few users

01:16:33 ◼   ► are ever going to know about any of those shortcuts because they're not visual. You

01:16:37 ◼   ► to know about them. And there's, you know, there's a little visual cue when you hold

01:16:41 ◼   ► the option key down, drag something where it adds a plus sign to sort of at least give

01:16:45 ◼   ► you a little bit of a visual hint that maybe, you know, that you're making a copy or adding.

01:16:50 ◼   ► But you know, I mean, show that to most people and they're not going to have any idea what

01:16:53 ◼   ► the plus sign means. And they're never going to guess that holding the option, anything

01:16:57 ◼   ► that involves modifier keys is not going to, it just goes right over even smart people's

01:17:03 ◼   ► head because it's not, you have to know it before you'll ever use it. And you have to

01:17:06 ◼   ► remember it and that's that's a and you know it's well i mean think about you go

01:17:11 ◼   ► to somebody's house and you want it like your house sitting and you want to find

01:17:13 ◼   ► the scissors

01:17:14 ◼   ► yeah like there's nothing that would tell you where the scissors are until

01:17:17 ◼   ► you open a bunch of drawers and try stuff

01:17:19 ◼   ► yeah exactly that's exactly that's a really good analogy

01:17:22 ◼   ► here's another one and in in itunes 11 the new mini player thing is a new

01:17:27 ◼   ► button up in the up in the title bar that that toggles between these two

01:17:32 ◼   ► states for all previous 10 versions what they did is override the green button

01:17:36 ◼   ► And instead of zooming the window, it would toggle between the two states.

01:17:42 ◼   ► What most people don't know is if you option clicked the plus button, it would give you

01:17:48 ◼   ► the traditional green button behavior.

01:17:50 ◼   ► And I –

01:17:51 ◼   ► Jared: Really?

01:17:52 ◼   ► I never knew that.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Steven.

01:17:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:55 ◼   ► See, I tweeted that yesterday and I got like a gazillion like, "Holy cow, I didn't

01:17:57 ◼   ► know that."

01:17:58 ◼   ► Jared.

01:17:59 ◼   ► I would never in a million years think to do that.

01:18:00 ◼   ► Steven.

01:18:01 ◼   ► And why did you not teach me that before the version of iTunes came out that it doesn't

01:18:05 ◼   ► anymore. It's just one of those things if you're, you know, if you think Mackie enough,

01:18:11 ◼   ► you'd think like, well, if they overrid that, wouldn't they maybe give you an escape hatch

01:18:15 ◼   ► with a modifier key? But modifier keys, like you said, you I mean, you just said you didn't

01:18:19 ◼   ► even know that existed. Well, modifier keys, not a good solution to the problem. So Windows

01:18:25 ◼   ► contextual menus solved that problem in a certain sense of give me a way to do. Here's

01:18:31 ◼   ► the thing. I have it in front of me. Let me – give me a whole bunch of lists of things

01:18:35 ◼   ► I can do to this thing right now." But in another sense, it wasn't – still wasn't

01:18:42 ◼   ► visual though, because you had to know the difference between right-clicking and left-clicking,

01:18:47 ◼   ► which, you know, is like one of the most like divisive arguments in the history of user

01:18:55 ◼   ► interface design.

01:18:56 ◼   ► One is, "Let's do something," and the other one is, "Let's find out what we

01:18:59 ◼   ► could do."

01:19:00 ◼   ► Right.

01:19:01 ◼   ► And my argument against it, and that Apple was right with the one-button mouse for all

01:19:05 ◼   ► these years, is that whenever I worked in an office environment, you could go and you

01:19:09 ◼   ► look at everybody's mouse, if they had PCs, and the left mouse button was filthy, and

01:19:15 ◼   ► the right mouse button—or actually, I guess it was the other way around, where the left

01:19:18 ◼   ► one was clean.

01:19:19 ◼   ► Well, the left one might be dirty, but it had a finger-sized hole.

01:19:23 ◼   ► Shiny, yeah.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Like, shiny.

01:19:25 ◼   ► one was just covered with dust and that people learned that that's the one you don't click.

01:19:30 ◼   ► And that kind of shows you how Apple really did win.

01:19:33 ◼   ► Right. That normal people still never used those things. It is a great power user future,

01:19:40 ◼   ► and that's why Apple eventually – and I do think you're right that when Apple added

01:19:45 ◼   ► contextual menus with the control click, that it was sort of begrudging. But it's definitely

01:19:50 ◼   ► a power user feature because it's not visual and that's why you see things I think in iTunes

01:19:55 ◼   ► now with this thing where they've got this secondary in a way it is totally ungraceful

01:20:02 ◼   ► and inelegant that there are two entirely different contextual menus for let's say a

01:20:06 ◼   ► song or an album there's the old one that you get with the control click or right click

01:20:11 ◼   ► whatever you want to call it and this new one where you just regular click on the Chevron

01:20:15 ◼   ► button and that it's two, you know, entirely different lists of things and one's a lot simpler,

01:20:22 ◼   ► one's a little bit more fiddly, very inelegant. But it is to me, though, the new way where it's

01:20:28 ◼   ► visual and you can at least see how to make it come up. Well, I totally agree. But I mean,

01:20:36 ◼   ► I'd like to be even even kinder, I think, and I think fairly so. If you think about iOS, one of

01:20:44 ◼   ► One of the things that Apple, I think, has gotten so right with iOS that others...I can't

01:20:50 ◼   ► say if others have, I haven't spent much time on anything but an iPad or an iPhone, but

01:20:54 ◼   ► you know, is that I understand that there are a limited number of things that I can

01:20:58 ◼   ► do here and that there should be a limited number of things that I present to people

01:21:03 ◼   ► here, otherwise it's going to be completely overwhelming.

01:21:06 ◼   ► And so, I don't want to disclose, Chef Ramon, but whatever you call it, like go to the next

01:21:11 ◼   ► level of stuff.

01:21:12 ◼   ► The only way you can really do stuff, I'm pulling this out of my ass a little, but you

01:21:16 ◼   ► can either, I'm not Neven Merkin, I can't tell you what the names of the views are,

01:21:20 ◼   ► but you could certainly have a kind of view where you get a list of stuff and then you

01:21:24 ◼   ► can select things and do things to those.

01:21:27 ◼   ► But more often than not, you're clicking that "write disclose" button to drill down

01:21:31 ◼   ► into where you can do different sorts of things.

01:21:34 ◼   ► Now why is that so special and different?

01:21:36 ◼   ► because there's not really menus in the traditional sense on your iOS device.

01:21:43 ◼   ► You don't have a, like in this case, file edit, view control, store, and window.

01:21:47 ◼   ► That might be presented in some kind of tab way, but that's usually like the last thing

01:21:52 ◼   ► I would want to do.

01:21:53 ◼   ► And there are certainly far edge cases.

01:21:55 ◼   ► I don't know if you use GoodReader.

01:21:57 ◼   ► GoodReader is so nerdy but so fun.

01:21:59 ◼   ► You can go in and look at your files on Dropbox and you can go to the file management section,

01:22:04 ◼   ► file and say, "Whaaat?" There's like 40 options. It's so like, you know, like an engineer

01:22:08 ◼   ► made it, right? You can open in, you can zip this, you can move this, you can do all that

01:22:12 ◼   ► stuff. It gets you to the point though, saying like only a power user would want that, because

01:22:16 ◼   ► most people don't know of or need most of those things, and for better or for worse,

01:22:21 ◼   ► the iOS is accommodating those limitations in the design principles. So, I mean, the

01:22:28 ◼   ► thing is, I guess what I'm trying to get at is that in seeing these changes reflected,

01:22:32 ◼   ► or these design decisions reflected back into OS X.

01:22:35 ◼   ► I wonder if for a new person, you just come in here and go,

01:22:38 ◼   ► I understand there's stuff,

01:22:40 ◼   ► and the stuff is in different areas,

01:22:43 ◼   ► and once I get there and I get to the actual stuff,

01:22:45 ◼   ► there's almost always something I can do to it.

01:22:48 ◼   ► And if I get used to the idea that clicking on that chevron

01:22:51 ◼   ► always means that I can do things, then that's great.

01:22:53 ◼   ► My gut is that most power users

01:22:55 ◼   ► are never gonna click on those things.

01:22:56 ◼   ► They're gonna see that arrow.

01:22:58 ◼   ► Like you're pretty good with computers,

01:23:00 ◼   ► you didn't know about viewing in Playlist. Which tells me you did not spend a lot of

01:23:05 ◼   ► time left clicking and, or you know, I just get these backwards because I use this trackpad

01:23:11 ◼   ► and you know, caps lock.

01:23:13 ◼   ► That's why I still call it control clicking.

01:23:14 ◼   ► Yeah, control clicking. For me it's caps lock clicking. But you know what I'm saying? Like

01:23:20 ◼   ► for most people, I think that the danger, not the danger, the thing that's a little

01:23:24 ◼   ► confusing about this is yes, it's a new design. We always, we should always be open to a new

01:23:28 ◼   ► design being better because this is a group or a company that by and large we trust to

01:23:33 ◼   ► make interesting and good design decisions. But there's a lot about it that, yes, there's

01:23:38 ◼   ► absolute, like I'm just right now, there's a lot of stuff you don't see until you mouse

01:23:41 ◼   ► over it. And then when you do mouse over it, you're like, "What?" Like I mouse over a song.

01:23:45 ◼   ► I now have exactly the same chevron for a song as I do for the album. So what does that

01:23:50 ◼   ► mean? Well, I'll just click and find out. I've also got these four tiny little dots.

01:23:54 ◼   ► What is that? Well, I know that's for I want to rate this.

01:23:57 ◼   ► Right, I don't know if everybody's gonna know that the truth is though. I don't think most people are gonna use any of that

01:24:02 ◼   ► Really, do you write your songs? Do you write your songs? I?

01:24:05 ◼   ► Used to I would I wish we had another two hours because I have so much great iTunes tip stuff to share

01:24:12 ◼   ► But I I'm not big on ratings. I am big on metadata and I use the

01:24:18 ◼   ► Boy, I hope John Sir Q Center ever hears this

01:24:22 ◼   ► I rely heavily on the implicit metadata of what exists in the songs and what it has learned from my behavior

01:24:28 ◼   ► So I would much rather count on I would much rather use skip count

01:24:32 ◼   ► Yeah, and number of plays to make a playlist then I would buy is this two and a half to four and a half stars

01:24:39 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. I wanted to show me you know, you know, it's it's just like good user testing, right?

01:24:43 ◼   ► It's like yeah, you should tell us the symptoms of how you use this

01:24:47 ◼   ► but we're more interested in the signs of what your behavior shows.

01:24:50 ◼   ► I almost trust iTunes to star my songs more than myself. And there are a few. There's

01:24:56 ◼   ► obviously, you know, it's like Raging Bull. Raging Bull is obviously one of the greatest

01:25:03 ◼   ► movies ever made, one of my favorites. But you just can't watch it that often. It's

01:25:06 ◼   ► just too much, right? It takes a lot out of me to watch Raging Bull. So my play count

01:25:11 ◼   ► on Raging Bull as a movie is going to be a lot lower than the stars I would assign to

01:25:15 ◼   ► it because I just can't take it. It's just—

01:25:17 ◼   ► I love a band called God Speed You Black Emperor, which is this band from Canada that makes

01:25:22 ◼   ► these wonderful, very long, orchestral atmosphere. Did you ever see 28 Days Later?

01:25:27 ◼   ► Yes.

01:25:28 ◼   ► Do you remember when the guy wakes up and he starts walking through the streets and

01:25:31 ◼   ► you hear that very memorable cello, like, "Wah-wah-wah"? That's God Speed You Black

01:25:35 ◼   ► Emperor. That's five-star music that I do not want to hear 16 minutes at a time. So

01:25:41 ◼   ► The skip count on that is kind of high.

01:25:43 ◼   ► But you can hack this easily by--

01:25:46 ◼   ► and I don't want to derail this, but I do have a lot on this--

01:25:48 ◼   ► is the way that I do playlists I think is pretty smart.

01:25:52 ◼   ► I do it very heavily upon building the--

01:25:55 ◼   ► I have a whole bunch of iCloud-related smart playlists

01:25:57 ◼   ► that I love to share with people because I think

01:25:59 ◼   ► they could be a lifesaver.

01:26:00 ◼   ► But then I do it very heavily based

01:26:02 ◼   ► upon the number of times--

01:26:03 ◼   ► the ratings, I mean, what are ratings?

01:26:04 ◼   ► Do you have time to sit and rate everything?

01:26:06 ◼   ► And what does that rating mean?

01:26:07 ◼   ► It's not that much better than what

01:26:09 ◼   ► you get on the iTunes store.

01:26:11 ◼   ► Well, it's good for what? The Gen-- I gotta tell ya, did Genius break for you after iTunes

01:26:16 ◼   ► Match initially? When I first got on iTunes Match, Genius stopped working on my Mac. I

01:26:23 ◼   ► guess it was-- there wasn't enough on the computer for it to work.

01:26:26 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know, it got flaky for a while.

01:26:28 ◼   ► But it definitely started working, even in 10-- I guess, whatever, it's the last iTunes,

01:26:32 ◼   ► it worked-- it did start working again, and it was a revelation. I don't know how the

01:26:36 ◼   ► hell it does it. It's crazy, all we've learned from collaborative filtering. It works pretty

01:26:40 ◼   ► great. And I'll tell you, the Genius playlists are frequently way better than anything I

01:26:45 ◼   ► would have come up with on my own.

01:26:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree with that. But I also think that's exactly why I think I trust iTunes

01:26:51 ◼   ► to rate my songs for me.

01:26:52 ◼   ► Well, you know, just as a—

01:26:54 ◼   ► And then let me override it, you know.

01:26:56 ◼   ► I'll tell you what's a super-duper rat hole that still drives me crazy. Why doesn't

01:27:00 ◼   ► iOS know which apps I use the most? Why is there not an automatic smart folder for the

01:27:05 ◼   ► apps that I use the most? Don't you think there should be a smart folder, I know

01:27:10 ◼   ► this doesn't exist, but shouldn't there be a smart folder automatically populated

01:27:14 ◼   ► in your dock with the five apps you use the most?

01:27:16 ◼   ► I'm sorry, nine apps you use the most? I definitely think so. I think, I think, I

01:27:22 ◼   ► don't think that the the visual presentation of, as they call it,

01:27:26 ◼   ► springboard is in any way problematic. I know a lot of nerds want to put widgets

01:27:30 ◼   ► and have all sorts of fancy stuff. I think this idea that the baseline of the iOS universe

01:27:37 ◼   ► is a desktop, you get to pick the background and then it's just an organized list of your

01:27:42 ◼   ► apps is the right concept. I think the problem with Springboard is the lack of organization

01:27:48 ◼   ► features. You know, like moving apps around in that thing makes me feel like I've got

01:27:52 ◼   ► a job in the...

01:27:53 ◼   ► Well, and if you've done it right, and like in my case, I'm sorry to say that I have more

01:27:58 ◼   ► apps than can be shown.

01:27:59 ◼   ► on. And so what do I do? I joked about this not long ago. I'll go to a page with a bunch

01:28:05 ◼   ► of crappy apps I don't use, and it takes so long to delete.

01:28:08 ◼   ► Steven: At least when you do it through iTunes, when you connect the device in iTunes, you

01:28:12 ◼   ► can select more than one app at a time and move more than one app.

01:28:14 ◼   ► Chuck: And it's not two clicks. It's not all those extra clicks. But what I'll do is I'll

01:28:18 ◼   ► create a – I'll drop one on top of the other, and it'll say, "Do you want to create

01:28:22 ◼   ► a folder called Productivity?" I know. No, it's called Blorp37. And so I just drop, drop,

01:28:27 ◼   ► chop chop chop chop. I guess nine apps or whatever it'll take. But I mean that

01:28:32 ◼   ► that is it becomes so time-consuming and then what's crazy making is if there is

01:28:35 ◼   ► an app in there that I use once a year and I do the search you know the go left

01:28:39 ◼   ► and do the search I wish you could say show in folder or show on page hmm you

01:28:47 ◼   ► know what yeah I know you know I know exactly what you mean though cuz I am

01:28:50 ◼   ► organized and I have organized everything into folders well then the

01:28:53 ◼   ► folders lose their taxonomical significance if I don't have a way to

01:28:57 ◼   ► to find out its siblings at the same time.

01:29:00 ◼   ► No, the thing you just described I run into all the time, where there's a certain app

01:29:04 ◼   ► I realize I want to use. One of them, like for example, Speed Test, where you can—

01:29:10 ◼   ► You might have one called Internet Utilities, for example, with Speed Test in it.

01:29:13 ◼   ► Right. And I often, you know, when I get like a new device from Apple to, you know, like

01:29:18 ◼   ► the new iPad Mini comes out and I want to test to see, "Hey, is the LTE speed just

01:29:24 ◼   ► as fast as the iPhone? Am I getting different speeds or something like that?" So now I

01:29:27 ◼   ► I haven't used speed test in a while, but I want to use it.

01:29:29 ◼   ► And I think, you know, I use this thing enough that I should move it up to a more prominent

01:29:34 ◼   ► screen, but I'll search for it on that search screen, and then I want to know where the

01:29:38 ◼   ► hell it is.

01:29:39 ◼   ► I don't know where speed test is on my phone.

01:29:40 ◼   ► I have no idea.

01:29:41 ◼   ► Steven: And it hopefully tells you that it's in a folder called travel.

01:29:43 ◼   ► I don't – I have no idea where it is.

01:29:46 ◼   ► So I'll just – what I'll do is I'll just launch it from the search page and give

01:29:50 ◼   ► up on knowing where the hell it is.

01:29:52 ◼   ► What I would ask right now is that they added something in 6 that's cool, which is when

01:29:57 ◼   ► you search, if you have done the, you know, it's pretty cool Disney magic that if you

01:30:01 ◼   ► put two similar apps, if you drop an app on a similar app, it's pretty cool that those,

01:30:05 ◼   ► notice that those are both music apps or travel apps.

01:30:07 ◼   ► That's pretty cool.

01:30:08 ◼   ► It's done that ever since they've had the folders feature.

01:30:10 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, but I mean, I was going to say that it's nice that it's always been cool

01:30:13 ◼   ► that it guesses that well, but what would be nice, and this is probably a nerd thing,

01:30:16 ◼   ► but when you do that search for speed test, what do you call that thing, the search page,

01:30:21 ◼   ► whatever you do.

01:30:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:23 ◼   ► They call it Spotlight?

01:30:24 ◼   ► They might call it Spotlight.

01:30:25 ◼   ► Spotlight.

01:30:26 ◼   ► Did you notice that it now shows you the name of the folder when it finds it?

01:30:28 ◼   ► No, I didn't know that.

01:30:29 ◼   ► So, if you search for something, it shows you the name of the folder.

01:30:32 ◼   ► Now, obviously, the next…

01:30:33 ◼   ► It doesn't tell you what home screen it's on, though.

01:30:35 ◼   ► I want to know like it's on home screen 8.

01:30:37 ◼   ► Well, I wish there was just a disclose button that would…or a, you know, an "i."

01:30:41 ◼   ► Right.

01:30:42 ◼   ► Or just show me.

01:30:43 ◼   ► Show it to me.

01:30:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:45 ◼   ► But, you know, this is the one funny thing.

01:30:47 ◼   ► I'm sure we don't have time to get into this, but I want to at least put a stake in

01:30:49 ◼   ► the ground.

01:30:50 ◼   ► There's so much stuff, like it's one thing to say,

01:30:53 ◼   ► "Okay, I want a playlist of these songs that I like,"

01:30:57 ◼   ► or, "I wanna make a mix tape for somebody,"

01:30:58 ◼   ► as we used to say, but there is so much power

01:31:01 ◼   ► in smart playlists that most people have no idea about,

01:31:05 ◼   ► and they are absolutely indispensable

01:31:07 ◼   ► if you're using iTunes Match.

01:31:09 ◼   ► Like, I have so many of these that I rely on,

01:31:12 ◼   ► and one of them is, here is all stuff

01:31:14 ◼   ► that I know is copacetic in the cloud, right?

01:31:19 ◼   ► Everything that's matched or purchased

01:31:20 ◼   ► that matches any of these three criteria.

01:31:23 ◼   ► That first of all is fantastic,

01:31:25 ◼   ► 'cause you can see how much of your stuff is up there.

01:31:28 ◼   ► I have one for problems.

01:31:30 ◼   ► Show me any one where it is deleted,

01:31:33 ◼   ► or problem, or whatever it is.

01:31:37 ◼   ► But you know what I've got?

01:31:38 ◼   ► I've got one that I swear by.

01:31:40 ◼   ► This is a little Byzantine.

01:31:42 ◼   ► But I take that is this safe in the cloud list,

01:31:47 ◼   ► and I use that as the basis for,

01:31:49 ◼   ► me everything that's in my safe in the cloud list that's larger than 15 megs and sort by size.

01:31:56 ◼   ► So if I'm running out of space, I know that I can very quickly clear up three gigs by

01:32:01 ◼   ► deleting everything in here without actually losing it forever. And on my MacBook Air,

01:32:07 ◼   ► that's indispensable. I mean, I fill that thing up fast. If I put some HD movies on there,

01:32:12 ◼   ► or I forgot I pre-bought Brave, and the Brave plus special features is going to be like 8 gigs or

01:32:19 ◼   ► whatever. Things like that. But then you can also get into these wonderful things where you can mix

01:32:24 ◼   ► those lists. This should be a separate show, I'm sorry. But if you come up with lists that work for

01:32:28 ◼   ► you, like, you know, "Show me everything that I've listened to more than 10 times that's not in

01:32:32 ◼   ► children's music or holiday music or any of this array and has fewer than five skip counts." Wow,

01:32:38 ◼   ► that's actually a pretty great list. Doesn't matter what rating you gave it. You're going

01:32:41 ◼   ► going to hear songs that you like. So if you can combine those together, you come up with

01:32:46 ◼   ► these fantastic on-the-go lists for iOS. And that stuff is all still in here. I don't

01:32:51 ◼   ► think it's super obvious how to use all that. A lot of people don't know that you

01:32:54 ◼   ► can make like sub-list entries inside of smart playlists. You know what I mean?

01:32:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:59 ◼   ► Where you can have like arrays and arrays or whatever.

01:33:00 ◼   ► Right.

01:33:01 ◼   ► But you like it.

01:33:04 ◼   ► I do. Hey, let me tell you about the second sponsor.

01:33:06 ◼   ► I got to tell you.

01:33:09 ◼   ► Repeat sponsor and repeat sponsors make me so happy because it makes me feel like they're

01:33:13 ◼   ► part of the talk show family.

01:33:15 ◼   ► So our friends at Global Delight and their app, it's a brand new version of their great

01:33:19 ◼   ► app Camera Plus Pro.

01:33:22 ◼   ► Camera Plus Pro, a little bit of a tongue twister, is a powerful yet simple camera app

01:33:28 ◼   ► and it's a photo editing app.

01:33:29 ◼   ► So it lets you shoot, edit and share beautiful photos and videos from your iPhone and your

01:33:34 ◼   ► iPhone 5, your iPod touch or even your iPad.

01:33:38 ◼   ► love to shoot their stuff on their iPad.

01:33:41 ◼   ► It's a great, it's a favorite of iPhone photographers.

01:33:46 ◼   ► It has incredible features.

01:33:49 ◼   ► My favorites are things like, it's got really good focus lock, exposure control, manual

01:33:55 ◼   ► white balance, you can change the white balance.

01:33:57 ◼   ► It has a good anti-shake feature to help steady photos when you're holding it in your hand.

01:34:04 ◼   ► A bunch of options for grid lines.

01:34:06 ◼   ► So you could turn on the rule of thirds, you could set on some other options for the gridlines.

01:34:10 ◼   ► You can turn on the mode, they call it big button mode, where the whole screen is the

01:34:14 ◼   ► shutter.

01:34:15 ◼   ► Right?

01:34:16 ◼   ► Ever have that problem with the built-in camera app where there's only like two pixels that

01:34:19 ◼   ► register as a shutter button?

01:34:20 ◼   ► You don't want to use, you don't want to, like if you use this inward-facing camera,

01:34:24 ◼   ► you can hit the button, but if you try and do it from the other side, it's a real, you

01:34:27 ◼   ► know what I'm talking about?

01:34:28 ◼   ► If you want to get a self-portrait?

01:34:29 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:34:30 ◼   ► Big button mode helps so much for that.

01:34:31 ◼   ► Right.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Because all you have to, if you feel glass, it's a shutter button.

01:34:35 ◼   ► uh...

01:34:36 ◼   ► they've also you know they've got the same thing that the photo app has

01:34:39 ◼   ► everybody has now you can use the volume button as a shutter you can also use the

01:34:43 ◼   ► volume button on a headphone if it's attached

01:34:45 ◼   ► so it's sort of like uh... over they call that uh... photography terms a

01:34:49 ◼   ► remote shutter button

01:34:51 ◼   ► really james bond i make you do that

01:34:53 ◼   ► uh...

01:34:54 ◼   ► on the video side now here's where they're really getting around where

01:34:57 ◼   ► these are some of the really advanced features they got down the video side

01:35:00 ◼   ► you can shoot videos with camera plus pro with real-time video filters

01:35:05 ◼   ► so you can get uh... and now you know and again i would say this i know people

01:35:08 ◼   ► are some people are against the filters some of the filters yeah a little bit

01:35:11 ◼   ► kitschy a little bit retro some of the filters are just you know really make it

01:35:15 ◼   ► look a little bit more like a movie in a more filmic i think some of the filters

01:35:18 ◼   ► are really great

01:35:20 ◼   ► but you can see them live i don't even know how they to me this is black magic

01:35:24 ◼   ► i don't i don't know how a little iphone

01:35:26 ◼   ► thinking can do live video filtering as you should but it works uh... that's the

01:35:31 ◼   ► thing that blew me away about these guys at Macworld last year is, I think it got them

01:35:36 ◼   ► the best to show at Macworld Expo is that they were, they had this app that did video

01:35:41 ◼   ► filters, you know, Instagram style, hipstagram style, whatever you want to call it, but live

01:35:46 ◼   ► as you shoot the video.

01:35:47 ◼   ► I had no idea that existed. I love this app and I had no idea that existed.

01:35:51 ◼   ► Yeah. It doesn't seem mathematically possible to me, but it works. Sharing, you could share

01:35:56 ◼   ► to Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, any place you'd want to send photos. They have a feature.

01:36:02 ◼   ► I don't know why anybody would ever want to use such a feature, but they have a feature

01:36:05 ◼   ► where you can have a private collection of photos within the app that's password protected.

01:36:09 ◼   ► I don't know. I mean, it seems like something somebody would want to use. I don't know.

01:36:13 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a sensitive government data.

01:36:15 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:36:16 ◼   ► That's a good idea.

01:36:17 ◼   ► But I use it. I like it. It's got some great, you know, and it's, you know, a whole bunch

01:36:22 ◼   ► of filters that you can use. One of my other favorite things about their filters is that

01:36:25 ◼   ► when you apply a filter to a photo, uh, they have a little slider that just lets you adjust

01:36:30 ◼   ► the filter strength. So if you say, give it the bleach bypass filter and it really has

01:36:37 ◼   ► this sort of absurdly strong, um, filter look to it. If you think that's too much, you

01:36:42 ◼   ► can just slide that down a little bit and just put it like 30% or something like that.

01:36:46 ◼   ► And it just gives it a hint of that look, which I think is just a great feature. It

01:36:51 ◼   ► really really helps sort of let you feel like you're in control of it like a real app like

01:36:57 ◼   ► Lightroom or something like that on your Mac. Here's how do you get it? I know that's what

01:37:03 ◼   ► you're wondering. Did you ever hear of the website bit.ly?

01:37:05 ◼   ► I know about bit.ly.

01:37:07 ◼   ► B-I-T dot L-Y. Right. So here's what you do. You go to bit.ly, bit.ly/buycppro. So that's

01:37:17 ◼   ► B U Y like buy as in purchase B U Y C P P R O buy C P pro that'll let them track it

01:37:29 ◼   ► you don't know that you're coming from the talk show that's the idea behind the

01:37:32 ◼   ► bitly URL they can say wow look at all these people coming from the talk show how much

01:37:37 ◼   ► does it cost cost a buck ninety nine one two bucks that's going to get a great app camera

01:37:43 ◼   ► Plus Pro when you Google for it comes up number one number one before you could

01:37:48 ◼   ► Google for it as Google sponsor we love to mention them they have their big

01:37:53 ◼   ► supporters of the show I have I have Wow I I this Wow I guess I I thought I was

01:37:58 ◼   ► using this most recent version but oh my god this is amazing

01:38:01 ◼   ► what a beautiful app and they were one of the first they were one of the first

01:38:05 ◼   ► were when camera plus came out everybody was like wait a minute you can do this

01:38:10 ◼   ► You're the best.

01:38:12 ◼   ► Yep.

01:38:13 ◼   ► So, what else is going on?

01:38:16 ◼   ► Is that, you know, we're going long, we should get the hell off.

01:38:19 ◼   ► We should have a show, John.

01:38:21 ◼   ► I know you wouldn't want to do that probably, but we should have a show.

01:38:24 ◼   ► This is ridiculous.

01:38:25 ◼   ► Well, we have some stuff to talk about.

01:38:28 ◼   ► Really?

01:38:30 ◼   ► We need to talk?

01:38:31 ◼   ► Oh, no, I mean we have shared interests that we can expound upon.

01:38:34 ◼   ► We have so many shared interests.

01:38:35 ◼   ► We could help so many people.

01:38:36 ◼   ► In an enthusiastic and entertaining and engaging manner.

01:38:39 ◼   ► That's what I meant.

01:38:40 ◼   ► I did not mean that you and I have some shit to talk about.

01:38:45 ◼   ► I know you're the one sending that stuff to my wife.

01:38:47 ◼   ► Look, I told you I was going to take care of your investment.

01:38:53 ◼   ► Listen, the market is subject to volatility.

01:38:57 ◼   ► I'm not a magician.

01:39:00 ◼   ► We could talk more.

01:39:01 ◼   ► We could talk about your Apple stuff.

01:39:03 ◼   ► I never told you.

01:39:04 ◼   ► You could never lose it.

01:39:06 ◼   ► For government, federal something something, this is probably run long, right?

01:39:11 ◼   ► A little bit, but maybe there's some stuff we could cut.

01:39:15 ◼   ► We could keep going.

01:39:16 ◼   ► You want to talk about Apple News?

01:39:17 ◼   ► Can I tell people one more thing?

01:39:18 ◼   ► Yeah, what do you have to talk about?

01:39:20 ◼   ► I feel like you have some stuff.

01:39:21 ◼   ► What do you want to say?

01:39:22 ◼   ► Well, I'm going to mention one more slightly iTunes-related thing.

01:39:24 ◼   ► Now, I am a reformed, retired, adjunct productivity guy of some renown, I must say, and for years,

01:39:34 ◼   ► One of the--I use this as an example. I always use notebooks as a great example of productivity

01:39:38 ◼   ► porn and the idea that if you focus too much on the notebook, you won't do your stuff.

01:39:42 ◼   ► The example in terms of like stuff I do--and I mention that because I'm a notebook nerd.

01:39:46 ◼   ► Like I love field notes. I love all these notes. The other one for me is metadata. I

01:39:50 ◼   ► am so pointlessly obsessed with correct metadata and things and it drives me bananas. And for

01:39:57 ◼   ► a long time, there were various other--various different ways to use this. But I just want

01:40:00 ◼   ► to make people aware of something that's really cool and it's free. I think it's free. Music

01:40:04 ◼   ► brains. M-U-S-I-C-B-R-A-I-N-Z. I believe it's musicbrains.org, but if you google

01:40:10 ◼   ► music brains you will find it. It has the most exhaustive set of metadata about

01:40:15 ◼   ► anything I've ever seen. You might want to go to shot just for fun. So here's the neat

01:40:19 ◼   ► part though. A, you go in and search Music Brains for Tom Petty. It's gonna say, "Okay,

01:40:24 ◼   ► here's Tom Petty." You click on Tom Petty. It says, "Okay, show me down the torpedoes."

01:40:27 ◼   ► Okay, here's those torpedoes. Wait a minute. You're telling me that there's a, what would

01:40:31 ◼   ► be 1980? There's like old like whatever it came out. 1980, a version on this label that's

01:40:40 ◼   ► an LP, but there's also a version that came out later on with bonus tracks on a CD, and

01:40:44 ◼   ► there's also an adver--like doesn't it drive you crazy when you have to--when you want

01:40:48 ◼   ► to get the metadata right on stuff, but there's like four extra tracks and it--your iTunes

01:40:53 ◼   ► gets confused? Well this is--all that stuff is in there, which is amazing, but here's

01:40:57 ◼   ► the beauty part. You can download this app called, I think it's called Music Brains Picard,

01:41:02 ◼   ► like Professor X, Picard. And you get this thing.

01:41:05 ◼   ► John Luke.

01:41:06 ◼   ► John Luke. And you drag tracks into this, and it applies all that metadata to your tracks

01:41:12 ◼   ► for you, down to renaming the files.

01:41:15 ◼   ► How do you get that?

01:41:16 ◼   ► You just go to a good search for Music Brains Picard. And it's not the prettiest. It's kind

01:41:21 ◼   ► of swing looking, kind of, you know, Python-y looking, but it works well. And you go in

01:41:27 ◼   ► and say, you just throw a big bunch of stuff in there. I think it's better to start out

01:41:31 ◼   ► like, just to get your legs under you, put it like, grab, there's some album where you've

01:41:35 ◼   ► got, okay, you, throw Nightmare on Elm Street, whatever that Stones record is you like, throw

01:41:41 ◼   ► that in there, and then tell it, everything in this group make this the costly re-released

01:41:48 ◼   ► edition from a couple years ago and it'll say, "Okay, got it all. Boom." It gives the correct

01:41:52 ◼   ► stuff. It enters in the Composer data. It'll do like everything that it can and then it makes

01:41:57 ◼   ► your iTunes so much more fun to use. It sounds crazy, but if you get stuff, and it'll improve

01:42:02 ◼   ► stuff like your stuff you bought from Apple too. It'll add better stuff to that. Anyway,

01:42:08 ◼   ► it organizes better. It makes your playlist better. It drives me nuts.

01:42:11 ◼   ► Will it help with album art for missing album art?

01:42:16 ◼   ► I think it will help in the sense... I'm trying to remember if you can get album art for it.

01:42:20 ◼   ► I know there are other apps that do that. There used to be one called MP3... what's

01:42:26 ◼   ► the one I used to use? But there's always been little apps like this. If nothing else,

01:42:31 ◼   ► it'll make sure that it has normalized, as John Sircusa says, normalized metadata that'll

01:42:36 ◼   ► be correct and help you find, hopefully, the right one. I have a comics app that does that.

01:42:41 ◼   ► But I guess what I'm kind of getting at is like two things.

01:42:44 ◼   ► Well, first of all, we have so much stuff now that labeling stuff incorrectly has a

01:42:50 ◼   ► cost to it, even if it's silly stuff like music.

01:42:53 ◼   ► 'Cause stuff like duplicates.

01:42:54 ◼   ► 'Cause you can send more than one version to iTunes Match, as I have learned.

01:42:59 ◼   ► As I clicked around yesterday looking for screenshots and stuff, I realized just how

01:43:03 ◼   ► many duplicates I have.

01:43:04 ◼   ► And display duplicates and display exact duplicates is only so helpful.

01:43:07 ◼   ► And then A, first of all, it doesn't work all that great, and B, it doesn't automatically

01:43:11 ◼   ► pick what to get rid of. Well, if you find the correct version and prefer this certain

01:43:15 ◼   ► bit rate and so forth, it gets a lot easier to do that. And I actually have an app that

01:43:19 ◼   ► I like that will help with that a lot. I have one of those for iPhoto that I like a lot.

01:43:23 ◼   ► But first of all, yes, A, there's a cost to not having this correct because, you know,

01:43:28 ◼   ► example case, B, I'm on iOS and suddenly I have four different artists called Electric

01:43:34 ◼   ► Light Orchestra, which makes it really annoying. Well, I happen to like ELO. But you know what

01:43:39 ◼   ► saying? Like you go in there and your stuff isn't all in the same place, so you can't

01:43:42 ◼   ► make lists as easily. You're going to have to go back to your computer and fix all of

01:43:46 ◼   ► that. Some people on iOS, you know, maybe don't even have that option. But we do, if

01:43:50 ◼   ► we're OS X users. And this is a great one. So Picard. It's one of my picks. Pick of the

01:43:54 ◼   ► week. You strike me as somebody who's probably not a big metadata guy. You don't spend a

01:44:00 ◼   ► morning on that.

01:44:01 ◼   ► I can get into it.

01:44:04 ◼   ► For the stuff that matters to you, it's great. Like, I redid all of my New Order stuff. And

01:44:09 ◼   ► fixed up all my new order stuff, made sure the tracks come from the right thing, and

01:44:13 ◼   ► instead of me having to sit there and search 10 sites to find which of these five versions

01:44:16 ◼   ► of Ceremony this is, it'll do it for you. And it's pretty terrific. It can also do an

01:44:22 ◼   ► acoustic fingerprint. It'll look at, if it doesn't, if you have no idea what the track

01:44:25 ◼   ► is, you throw in your unknown, whatever that, you know, that one giant folder you have called

01:44:31 ◼   ► Unknown Source or whatever, it can, it'll take a shot, take a swag at doing an acoustic

01:44:37 ◼   ► footprint to figure out what it is. And so as more of your, let's say, 128k+ stuff

01:44:43 ◼   ► makes its way into the iTunes ecosystem, this will benefit you. Even just

01:44:48 ◼   ► take your--here you go--make a smart playlist of your most played albums and just even

01:44:52 ◼   ► fix those. It might make your life better. So it's good. And someday I'll share my

01:44:57 ◼   ► smart playlist with you. Do you have those? Did you do smart playlists for iTunes

01:45:02 ◼   ► match? For iTunes match? Like I was really scared to throw stuff away until I was

01:45:10 ◼   ► really, you know what I mean? I was, I knew that I didn't have to have a 65 gig iTunes

01:45:14 ◼   ► library on every machine anymore. Oh, I see what you mean. And I wanted to, I wanted to have

01:45:19 ◼   ► the confidence to delete stuff, especially with movies, dude. I mean, I had it set to

01:45:25 ◼   ► automatically download. Like I say, with Brave, I mean Brave was big. You know, that's one of

01:45:31 ◼   ► the things that to me is unheralded about the new iTunes 11 is that now, or under-heralded

01:45:37 ◼   ► at least, is that they've finally, they've more or less done the same thing now with

01:45:40 ◼   ► movies and TV shows as they did with music, where if you bought it from Apple, you could

01:45:45 ◼   ► just delete it from your computer and it still shows up and it's just like, you know, it's

01:45:49 ◼   ► in the class.

01:45:50 ◼   ► Jared: Yes. Oh, but you know the other thing they added, but I mean this actually supports

01:45:54 ◼   ► I think rather than refutes that, did you see you now have an overall tick box for don't

01:46:01 ◼   ► show, you know, like for example on iOS you can go in and say, "Only show local music.

01:46:08 ◼   ► Don't show iCloud music that's not on this device." You can do that now in iTunes also

01:46:12 ◼   ► without a smart playlist, which is huge if you're on vacation.

01:46:16 ◼   ► Steven: Right. Because you're not, don't tease me with the shit I can't play.

01:46:19 ◼   ► Jared; Well, here's the thing. B, when you're on vacation, you won't find out you don't

01:46:24 ◼   ► have it. But A, if you're not on vacation yet, you might want to go in and be sure you've

01:46:28 ◼   ► got everything you want on there.

01:46:29 ◼   ► Steven; Right.

01:46:30 ◼   ► That's a nice one. I mean, that's a nice feature because not everybody's going to

01:46:33 ◼   ► care about that or need that. You know, it's – we always have to think about the people

01:46:37 ◼   ► who are the new customers. Where is that growth coming from? Well, you know, there's not

01:46:41 ◼   ► that many people. Certainly there are nerds. They're going to buy five iPads and seven

01:46:45 ◼   ► iPhones. But clearly this growth is among people who have not been in the Apple ecosystem

01:46:49 ◼   ► before.

01:46:50 ◼   ► Right. Well, and I think it gets back – it gets back to one of my old refrains, which

01:46:55 ◼   ► is that it's really almost everything is hard if it wasn't part of the original idea.

01:47:01 ◼   ► And the whole cloud thing was not part of the original idea with iTunes, and it really

01:47:04 ◼   ► felt it with all the other previous versions.

01:47:07 ◼   ► Whereas this new redesign really was – and you know, part of it you can be completely

01:47:12 ◼   ► cynical about, which is that it's also very largely about getting you to buy more stuff

01:47:16 ◼   ► from the store.

01:47:17 ◼   ► But it – you know, just starting from the blank whiteboard when they started designing

01:47:23 ◼   ► what this new one was going to look like. They clearly had that a lot of this stuff,

01:47:28 ◼   ► the canonical store for it is our servers and iCloud, wherever the hell they are, as

01:47:35 ◼   ► opposed to the old iTunes, where the cloud stuff really was both effectively and visually

01:47:41 ◼   ► sort of tacked on.

01:47:43 ◼   ► Now, I think you're right. Gosh, the completely unexpected part of all this for me is Apple

01:47:50 ◼   ► TV which I treated as as much of a hobby as Apple did for a long time but when I

01:47:55 ◼   ► got the I have the 720p the second latest one right

01:47:59 ◼   ► I know I same here I it is unbelievable

01:48:02 ◼   ► I say I did a whole couple podcasts about this about how I moved away from

01:48:07 ◼   ► my old system having a Mac mini and a Drobo to do everything

01:48:10 ◼   ► I still got them around but it's crazy how little I miss having a dedicated

01:48:15 ◼   ► large storage device

01:48:18 ◼   ► Do you know what I mean? I mean, yes, absolutely. I am...

01:48:21 ◼   ► You know what? I was drinking the other night and bought a copy of Phantasm.

01:48:23 ◼   ► You ever seen Phantasm?

01:48:25 ◼   ► It rings a bell.

01:48:27 ◼   ► Remember that scary commercial, and there's that orb, like there's a mausoleum,

01:48:31 ◼   ► and you see the orb with the little... you can google it, yeah,

01:48:35 ◼   ► the orb with the spike coming out of it that goes into the guy's head and pulls all these blood spurts out?

01:48:39 ◼   ► It's this great low-budget horror film from 1979, and I just grabbed it.

01:48:42 ◼   ► And then it was on my iPad in a few minutes.

01:48:44 ◼   ► that they have created, starting with the early days of the iTunes store and being able

01:48:49 ◼   ► to buy, I mean, to me, now that pattern has become so ingrained that it competes very

01:48:54 ◼   ► heavily with the preexisting habit of just going and getting it off the back of a truck.

01:48:59 ◼   ► I feel great being legit with it, but it's also just more convenient. Knowing that this

01:49:04 ◼   ► is not going to have hard-coded Dutch subs, whatever those are, but this will be, like,

01:49:08 ◼   ► a good version of this that I can get from anywhere.

01:49:10 ◼   ► Right.

01:49:11 ◼   ► You know, the best copy of The Avengers that I've got is the one that I paid for, and that's,

01:49:14 ◼   ► I think that's really, that's a good thing. Has that happened for you? I mean, it seems

01:49:19 ◼   ► like this must have been big for you guys too, especially You Got a Kid 2.

01:49:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I wish we had more of our movies on iTunes than DVDs and stuff like that.

01:49:28 ◼   ► Maybe in the after dark I'll tell you about something called iFLIX. You want to play with

01:49:31 ◼   ► that?

01:49:32 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:49:33 ◼   ► Hmm, okay. I-F-L-I-C-K-S. Just say it.

01:49:37 ◼   ► I-F-L-I-X.

01:49:38 ◼   ► C-K-X.

01:49:39 ◼   ► C-K-X.

01:49:40 ◼   ► C-K-X.

01:49:41 ◼   ► metadata in place without having to re-encode. And if it's an MKV, whatever that is, it can

01:49:46 ◼   ► put a QuickTime wrapper around it that lets it run right in iTunes. It's a good thing.

01:49:53 ◼   ► Yeah, you know me. I get lost.

01:49:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I know you get confused. Yeah.

01:49:58 ◼   ► Oh, God, I get confused.

01:49:59 ◼   ► I got to show you my bookmark. Let's... What? I'll just never forget this one night. I tried

01:50:05 ◼   ► to show... Well, I don't know. You and Simpson were definitely there, and I was really excited

01:50:10 ◼   ► about showing you this one bookmarklet. And I remember, like, I never felt like a bigger

01:50:15 ◼   ► nerd than when you two guys were not interested in anything I had on my phone. And you were

01:50:20 ◼   ► seriously, you were like, I was like the kid who was like, "Hey, Spike, what about my

01:50:24 ◼   ► boss, Spike? Hey, Spike." You guys just walked away.

01:50:28 ◼   ► Darrell Bock I do remember that. I actually, oddly, have

01:50:31 ◼   ► a very vivid memory of that. I believe somehow we had either gotten kicked out of or had

01:50:35 ◼   ► had somehow decided that it was a bad scene at House of Shields, and we were going to

01:50:39 ◼   ► Rickenbacker's, right?

01:50:40 ◼   ► Jared: It might have been. There's been several times.

01:50:42 ◼   ► Pete: And so, you decided to spend like the three-walk, there's like a three-block walk

01:50:46 ◼   ► between the two bars.

01:50:47 ◼   ► Jared; We're not going to catch up and talk about our lives now.

01:50:50 ◼   ► Pete; You decided to explain quicks. I think it was quicks.

01:50:52 ◼   ► Jared; Yeah, it's quicks.

01:50:53 ◼   ► Pete; It's like this crazy command line.

01:50:55 ◼   ► Jared; Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

01:50:56 ◼   ► If I type in MDL, it returns a markdown link.

01:51:00 ◼   ► I've never met somebody so uninterested in the thing that they have made that changed

01:51:05 ◼   ► the world.

01:51:06 ◼   ► I'm trying to show you a bookmarklet on Montgomery Street, and you won't even look at it.

01:51:10 ◼   ► I do remember it was—

01:51:14 ◼   ► You guys literally turned your backs and walked away.

01:51:17 ◼   ► But I also remember, too, that we had previously all been on the same track.

01:51:21 ◼   ► We'd been having a good time, and then all of a sudden you took the B train and we took

01:51:24 ◼   ► the C train.

01:51:25 ◼   ► Oh, man. There's a reason I didn't get to sit at the lunch table with the cool kids.

01:51:30 ◼   ► Actually, there's probably about 30 reasons, but...

01:51:34 ◼   ► You feeling any better? You feeling any better having done this? Have you gotten your head

01:51:40 ◼   ► cleared out a little?

01:51:41 ◼   ► Of this cold?

01:51:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I just don't know. Maybe some time talking and talking about bourbon. You feel a little

01:51:46 ◼   ► better?

01:51:47 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely. But I don't have that. See, that is my... You asked what my cold medicine

01:51:50 ◼   ► of choice is. My cold medicine of choice is bourbon. Because that's... You know what?

01:51:54 ◼   ► If you go and look at a lot of the medicines that are out there, you know what it is?

01:51:58 ◼   ► It's alcohol.

01:51:59 ◼   ► It's the…

01:52:00 ◼   ► Or worse still, it's something that used to be useful because it had alcohol, and now

01:52:04 ◼   ► they took it…it's like caffeine-free diet coke.

01:52:07 ◼   ► Like, I don't understand what you're drinking at that point.

01:52:10 ◼   ► You know, in this case, this used to be all about the liquor, and now it's just something

01:52:14 ◼   ► you buy in a pharmacy that's, you know, just some kind of a useless tincture.

01:52:17 ◼   ► Right.

01:52:18 ◼   ► What's the proof of NyQuil?

01:52:19 ◼   ► I guess whether you feel better.

01:52:21 ◼   ► Well, but what's?

01:52:23 ◼   ► Sorry, I don't know what the proof is a kitty Dukakis she was a rubbing alcohol lady, right?

01:52:35 ◼   ► What did she doing was it rubbing on the same rubbing out? I think it might have been yeah. Yeah, I think it was

01:52:42 ◼   ► That's a shame. I shouldn't I shouldn't joke. No, that's not funny. No, he lost the election. That's not funny

01:52:46 ◼   ► All right, that would have been pretty funny though. She'd been in the White House just

01:52:50 ◼   ► drinking out of flower pots and shit.

01:52:52 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:52:53 ◼   ► Ticacas? Hmm.

01:52:55 ◼   ► That's a bummer. It's a bummer that that becomes your file card. You know, like that becomes like your one fact.

01:53:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:53:01 ◼   ► Like, you know, David Carradine was gonna be remembered as the guy from that show where they couldn't get Bruce Lee, but that was pretty cool.

01:53:07 ◼   ► Yeah, pretty bad.

01:53:08 ◼   ► And then there's the auto-erotic desk guy.

01:53:09 ◼   ► He was a white guy who could do pretty cool karate and wasn't Chuck Norris.

01:53:13 ◼   ► He could pull off a nation.

01:53:15 ◼   ► Right.

01:53:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:53:16 ◼   ► And then, you know,

01:53:19 ◼   ► Things just went a little south one night. All right, that is true. Yeah, and there's some guys who can outlive it

01:53:25 ◼   ► You know, I mean like Elvis Elvis is a big enough guy where yeah, he died ignominiously

01:53:30 ◼   ► But that's just like an asterisk like a sad little ass

01:53:33 ◼   ► like Elvis and the Beatles were big enough that we can remember them in different ways like they even remember when the stamps came out and

01:53:39 ◼   ► Like should it be young Elvis or fat Elvis?

01:53:41 ◼   ► Like there's not that many people maybe Liz Taylor, but there aren't that many people

01:53:46 ◼   ► Apart from people like them in the Beatles where you get to go. Oh, yeah, there's the Paul McCartney from this time in that time

01:53:51 ◼   ► Elvis man

01:53:56 ◼   ► Yeah, but like David Carradine, he's a guy who's sort of that's a shame. Yeah. I love that show

01:54:01 ◼   ► 1989 Dukakis was briefly hospitalized after drinking rubbing alcohol rubbing alcohol. That's that's rough. That is rough

01:54:10 ◼   ► I mean, I don't I can't think of any mixers that would make that a good thing for me

01:54:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think there's anything at hop sing with that either you think hop sink is could they see they would get it like

01:54:18 ◼   ► an artis anal right alcohol artisanal

01:54:20 ◼   ► Hey, it would be alcohol do rubbing and it would be like like an absinthe that comes with a special spoon or something

01:54:27 ◼   ► And a very elaborate bottle

01:54:31 ◼   ► How about our our bar?

01:54:33 ◼   ► Yes, you can come in and get a cocktail with ice

01:54:35 ◼   ► Like the all the other little queer bait bars you come to ours. We're gonna give you a drink you literally rub into your skin

01:54:42 ◼   ► Come in a tank top tank tops welcome. We'll make you a poultice. We could make you

01:54:47 ◼   ► Like a heating pad you know with a with a daiquiri in it

01:54:51 ◼   ► It's bliss guy