357: ‘Fluent Cupertinoese’, With Nilay Patel
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I actually got to say last week, good to see you.
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And now it's like what, every other month we see each other.
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- Yeah, it's great.
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Hopefully we'll see each other in October at the next event.
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Like, being in person at that event was,
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I think Apple got a boost.
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I think all of us like boosted our review scores.
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Because we were just like happy to be together.
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- I think so too.
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What do you think?
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So before we, let's just skip over
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what is easily two hours of news if we talk real fast.
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And of course I don't talk fast.
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And just speculate about the future.
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So Apple typically has an October event.
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Sometimes they'll postpone it to like early November.
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Everybody's expecting iPad Pros,
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which are overdue for a refresh.
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And some sort of Mac hardware now that the M2 debuted
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with the MacBook Air at WWDC.
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Do you think, in times past,
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they've held these October events all over the country.
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One time it was like at a Chicago Tech High School,
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Brooklyn Academy of Music a couple of years ago,
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which was a really fun show.
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Do you think they're gonna do something like that?
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Or you think with the COVID restrictions still in place,
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it is 100% certain we're going back to Cupertino?
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- I think we're going back to Cupertino.
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I mean, I'm just assuming.
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Like one, it was great to be in the theater.
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They've started doing some additional security screening.
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I think you pointed out one of your posts.
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Like it's just easier.
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And second, they haven't used that theater in like two years.
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I think they're just excited to be home.
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Well, and I also think that there's still,
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I mean, like one of the things, and I don't blame them.
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This is not a complaint.
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And I might've complained if they had required us
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to wear masks indoors for this event.
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In fact, I would have,
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'cause I think that would have been nonsense
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given the current state of COVID.
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But they didn't because I think they're on board,
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but they did require all attendees to provide a test score
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from the last 24 hours.
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So they're still worried enough about COVID
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that they're doing that.
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So I can't see why they would take the chance
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of planning an event off campus
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if they still think COVID is enough of a, hmm,
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you never know.
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And when COVID has gone bad with new waves,
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it goes bad quickly.
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I appreciated that they're still doing the test results.
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Like that's what I need.
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Like I'm with, no one was wearing a mask.
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Maybe like a handful of people.
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But I was like, you know what?
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I know that Apple has taken it seriously enough
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to require these test results.
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So like, I'm going for it.
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Like I'm hugging everybody.
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Like that was great.
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And I just appreciated that.
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- Yeah, and they fixed the process from WWDC
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where everybody who attended
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also had to provide test results.
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But the website they're using it,
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I forget what the name of it is,
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but it's like a third party provider
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where you take a home, it's just a home test.
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You don't need like one of the fancy go to a lab tests.
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You just take the type of test
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that the federal government sends everybody for free.
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And you take the test within 24 hours,
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take a picture of it and send it to them.
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My first thought was, well,
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how do you not just save a picture of a negative test
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and just send that?
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But there's QR codes on all the tests.
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So each test has like a unique identifier
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and the system can tell whether this one's ever been
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submitted to a system before, something like that.
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- Oh, I didn't know that.
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I had no idea.
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That's fascinating.
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- Yeah, so there's something like that.
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And at WWDC, the system kind of fell apart
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where it was like, I couldn't submit it from my Mac.
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And then I tried the next morning,
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the morning of the WWDC keynote with the same test result
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from my phone with the same picture and it worked,
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but it didn't go green.
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It went yellow.
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It was like red means you haven't submitted a test
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and green is it you're good.
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And mine went yellow.
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And I was like, well, I'm sure it will work out.
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And then by the time I got to the check-in,
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they were like, yeah, yeah, you're good.
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So yeah, I'm glad they're doing the test thing too.
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That's a good thing.
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- I think it's the appropriate precaution for this level.
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You're right, if it goes bad, it goes bad fast
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and you gotta do all sorts of other stuff,
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but it felt appropriate.
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It also felt like everyone was just happy to be at work.
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I mean, like fundamentally,
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everyone in that building is at work.
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Like we're working, we're trying to cover it,
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they're working, they're trying to guide our coverage,
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but like being able to work together is a delight.
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And I thought that was great.
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- It was funny with the security screening
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'cause I came in with Joanna and Panzarino
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and Joanna was really happy to see the security
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and I had to agree with her that,
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and I kind of put it in my coverage of the event
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that it wasn't so much that the security
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felt like an increased annoyance.
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It actually sort of felt like, hey, it's kind of weird
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that for all these years,
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we were coming to these super high profile events
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and they just kind of waved everybody in
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after checking our IDs.
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But of course I get pulled for additional screening
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and Joanna's off to the side telling them
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to look out for me, I'm dangerous.
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- All the jokes you can't say at the TSA,
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you can say at the Apple security checkpoint.
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- Exactly. - That's great.
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- She's like, you better scan him twice,
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he's always hiding stuff in his pants.
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- That's great, that's super funny.
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- What did you think, and I,
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this is the rare question I ask on this show
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where I know a bit of the answer
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'cause we talked in person.
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But what did you think about the fact
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that the actual keynote was entirely prerecorded
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even though we were all together in the theater on the stage?
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- I didn't love it.
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I mean, I liked being in the theater.
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I think you called out their screen.
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That screen, by the way, is entirely new
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since the last time we were in that theater.
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It used to be a projector and now it's a micro LED.
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I asked, of course I asked about it.
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It's a micro LED screen.
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It's like the industry leading micro LEDs
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or mini LED, whichever one it is.
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And so it's all new, it's completely shiny,
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they've got the big Atmos system.
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So that was all awesome and cool.
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And then to watch a movie that is actually hard to cover
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because the pacing is so fast.
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So we live vlogged these things
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and the pacing was insanely fast.
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It's like, I've gotten to be a better, faster typist
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in the past two years or so
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just by covering these things at the speed.
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And not having any of the,
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like it just didn't, the anticipation doesn't build
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'cause you kinda know how it's gonna go, right?
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They're gonna show you a video,
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you're gonna swoop around the Apple campus.
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The person who's inevitably gonna,
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Dan Riccio's gonna show you the Mac.
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Like you just know all these characters in this way
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and you kinda know the structure of them now
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because they're movies and they've fallen into a,
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just like any good movie falls into a structure,
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they've fallen into a structure.
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Whereas I think the live events had a little bit more
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adrenaline, a little bit more chaos,
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a little bit more surprise to them.
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I don't think that they're the point.
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Like I could just watch the keynote in my hotel room
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and go to Apple Park and get what I need
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out of the visit to Apple Park,
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which is talking to people and holding the things
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and going to briefings.
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Like that's the important part.
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But if you're gonna put us in the theater,
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I would prefer a live show.
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- I think I would personally,
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but I also think they've made the right choice.
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Like if I were on the team there making the decision,
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it's like I see the trade-offs.
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I think for them they're making the right choice,
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but we are the ones who suffer.
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And thematically, we could tie this in later,
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it is sort of like the decision to go eSIM only
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on the iPhones where you know who suffers the most?
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People like me and you.
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Because we're the ones who are trying to,
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I mean literally just this week it would have been nicer.
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I've got three iPhones in my possession, new ones to test.
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It really would be nice to go back to the old way
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of just 30 seconds with a paperclip
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and my SIM is in a different iPhone.
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And it's the same way.
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I think that the experience for the media
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in the Steve Jobs Theater is worse
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because it's less drama,
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it was always better to have the drama.
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The pace, the faster pace is so much better
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for the people at home.
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It's more of a show.
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But for us taking notes, the faster pace is worse.
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And when we were home the last two years
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watching these like everybody else at home,
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what did we do as soon as the keynote was over?
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I would rewind a bit and go back to the parts
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where I felt like maybe it went too fast.
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Whereas last week, what did we do after the keynote was over
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we're immediately flushed into the hands-on area
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and the pace is still super fast.
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'Cause it's like, how do I get my hands on all this stuff?
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How do I see this?
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Oh, there's somebody to talk to, I wanna talk to them.
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And you don't get to catch up and go back
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to what flew by in the keynote until hours later.
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- Yeah, I agree with you that on balance,
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the audience is bigger on the internet
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than can fit in that room.
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That room was too small when they built it
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'cause their events are just been getting bigger and bigger.
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- The whole campus is too small.
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Honestly, it was like they made this giant spaceship ring
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and famously, it was one of the last things
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Steve Jobs was involved with.
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He's the one who made the presentation
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to the Cupertino Town Hall and it sounded humongous.
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And by the time it was finished,
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Apple's head count had exploded past where it was in 2011.
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I think if they could have replanned it,
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the spaceship would have been even bigger.
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- It's huge, just to be clear.
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And it's also like in the middle of the neighborhood.
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It's just truly one of the stranger experiences
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you have driving out to it.
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But yeah, the theater,
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I remember the first time I walked into it,
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someone said, "It's already too small for what we wanna do."
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So I think they know their audience is bigger outside.
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But the value for me going in person
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is seeing you and gossiping with you for five minutes
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and then talking to the executives
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and being able to hold the product immediately
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after it's announced is completely underrated.
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Nothing on the internet looks like
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it does in person in my opinion.
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- Yeah, that's so true.
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No, the colors are the main thing I,
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one of the main things I missed.
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It's talking to people face to face
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is number one, the biggest thing.
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Whether it's friendlies like you and Joanna and Panzarena
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or Apple people, right?
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And getting off the record three, four minutes
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with Phil Schiller or Alan Dye or whoever else
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and other people whose names,
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people I know whose names listeners might not know.
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But just getting little bits like that,
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you cannot get that without the face to face.
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- Yeah, there's just an element of
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you ask different questions on Zoom briefings
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than you would in person.
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It's just like the stakes of every remote conversation
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seem higher to me.
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So in person, I was like, really, Dynamic Island?
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Like tell me about this.
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And then on a Zoom call or whatever,
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it's like a very formal question.
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And you do a different kind of journalism in person,
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so I appreciate that.
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- Yeah, I'm trying to think what else.
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Oh, yeah, I was gonna say the second thing that I missed
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other than face to face is seeing the color of things
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in person. - Yes.
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- I would almost say two extremes, right?
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Where with the Apple Watch Ultra,
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to see the orange, which I really love,
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orange is one of my favorite colors.
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And I think that they really nailed it.
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I think it is just the perfect orange for this.
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And then with the iPhone's 14 Pro,
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they all still look gray.
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Even in their perfectly lit hands-on area,
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to my eyes, you could see like deep purple's purple.
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But when I tried to take a photo of it,
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the camera kept, my 13 Pro kept white balancing
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to make it gray.
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- That's fascinating.
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At WWC, I had all but forgotten how to use my camera.
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Like I was there with David Pierce and we're like,
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oh, we are rusty.
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We have no idea what we're doing.
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We haven't used these things under pressure in two years.
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So we were a little bit better this time.
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But yeah, it's hard.
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Apple's lighting is basically perfect.
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It's hard to complain about.
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But it's still capturing what your eyes see as color
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and what the camera, it's a forever challenge.
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It's actually one of my favorite sort of like
00:12:04
◼
►
live tech journalism challenges is like,
00:12:07
◼
►
getting a good photo under pressure is like fun.
00:12:11
◼
►
I enjoy that piece of it.
00:12:13
◼
►
- I am, luckily, I mean, it's both by design and by talent.
00:12:18
◼
►
Don't really publish live photos from the event.
00:12:22
◼
►
I love taking photos.
00:12:23
◼
►
I'm an avid and I have always been avid
00:12:26
◼
►
prosumer photographer.
00:12:27
◼
►
But there's a reason I'm not a professional photographer.
00:12:30
◼
►
I don't really have a talent for it.
00:12:31
◼
►
And I'm blown away.
00:12:33
◼
►
I try to take photos as though I might publish them.
00:12:37
◼
►
And I see other people's photos of the exact same thing
00:12:41
◼
►
in the exact same hands-on area that I was trying to take.
00:12:44
◼
►
And theirs look great and are really cleverly framed.
00:12:47
◼
►
And mine look like somebody's shoulder
00:12:49
◼
►
is standing in front of me.
00:12:52
◼
►
- One of my all time favorite moments
00:12:54
◼
►
from a decade of doing this now,
00:12:56
◼
►
which is an incredible thing to say,
00:12:58
◼
►
is when the Palm Pre was announced at CES way back when.
00:13:02
◼
►
This is like pre LTE era and the wifi was bad at CES.
00:13:07
◼
►
And so I was in the trailer we had at CES
00:13:10
◼
►
out in the parking lot.
00:13:11
◼
►
And Paul Miller sprinted from the hall to our trailer
00:13:16
◼
►
after having taken photos.
00:13:17
◼
►
And he entered the trailer and he held his SD card
00:13:20
◼
►
aloft in victory.
00:13:22
◼
►
And we published the photos first
00:13:23
◼
►
because he had sprinted back to our trailer
00:13:25
◼
►
that had a hard connection with his SD card.
00:13:28
◼
►
And that's like, that's what I mean.
00:13:29
◼
►
That's the fun.
00:13:30
◼
►
Like there's a competitive element to doing it.
00:13:33
◼
►
Now, do I take photos nearly as good
00:13:35
◼
►
as half of the YouTubers out there?
00:13:37
◼
►
No, I do not.
00:13:38
◼
►
But every day is an incremental improvement.
00:13:41
◼
►
- I also continue to be blown away by the footage
00:13:44
◼
►
that the really good YouTubers like Marques and Justine
00:13:48
◼
►
get out of that hands-on scrum because it's chaos.
00:13:52
◼
►
It is pure chaos.
00:13:55
◼
►
And then you watch their videos afterwards.
00:13:57
◼
►
And yeah, they shoot lots of B-roll afterwards.
00:14:00
◼
►
They get some time when everybody's been cleared out
00:14:02
◼
►
and they can set up.
00:14:03
◼
►
But they have lots of footage that they've taken
00:14:05
◼
►
during the scrum and it's so good.
00:14:09
◼
►
- Yeah, it's good.
00:14:10
◼
►
They have a secret.
00:14:11
◼
►
We have been watching them for years
00:14:13
◼
►
'cause we're already a team that's competitive with them too.
00:14:17
◼
►
- They're just more patient than we are.
00:14:19
◼
►
And all things, a little more time,
00:14:22
◼
►
is like a 10x improvement.
00:14:24
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
00:14:25
◼
►
Yeah, and it's still, that's one thing that hasn't changed
00:14:27
◼
►
is the need to publish.
00:14:30
◼
►
And that initial scrum lasts and then everybody files out.
00:14:35
◼
►
And that's my secret too is in the immediate aftermath
00:14:38
◼
►
of the keynote, go look for people to talk to.
00:14:41
◼
►
Don't try to get near the products 'cause it's chaos.
00:14:44
◼
►
And you just wait half an hour and then all of a sudden
00:14:46
◼
►
it's not that hard to get near any of the products.
00:14:49
◼
►
- Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:14:50
◼
►
It's like, oh, there's a secret to success here
00:14:52
◼
►
and it's waiting for my impatient ass to get out of the way.
00:14:57
◼
►
(both laughing)
00:14:58
◼
►
- All right, let me take a break here.
00:14:59
◼
►
I'd like our first sponsors, our good friends at,
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and quite frankly, they're fueling this podcast,
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Look, it is crazy that so many of us enjoy
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I make a big pot of coffee in the morning
00:15:22
◼
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and that's my coffee 'cause if I drink more coffee
00:15:24
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later in the day, then it screws me up pretty bad.
00:15:28
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But one big whole pot of coffee in the morning,
00:15:30
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man, that's my breakfast.
00:15:32
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And look, I can't think of a better way to start.
00:15:35
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It really, it gets me out of bed in the morning thinking,
00:15:38
◼
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you know what, I'm gonna get up, I got something to write,
00:15:41
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It's a perishable good.
00:15:55
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What you want is fresh coffee and anything sitting
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on a shelf like in a supermarket,
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no matter how cool the brand is,
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00:16:03
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But by the time it's sitting there on the shelf,
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it's already going bad.
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It's losing the flavor.
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00:16:23
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And then you never have to go shopping.
00:16:24
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God, I hate going shopping.
00:16:25
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And even worse than that, I hate running out of coffee.
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Well, I never run out of coffee
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because I've got a subscription.
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00:16:36
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The quiz asks you what type of coffee you like.
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They get you started.
00:16:39
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You say how much you wanna get to it.
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00:16:44
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They're so flexible, it's crazy.
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And then once you have the subscription,
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You can change it at any time if you're like,
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you know what, once a week is too much for me.
00:16:53
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00:16:55
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or I should go every 14 days or something like that.
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and just let them keep sending what they send you.
00:17:06
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But you can rate it and they'll use your ratings
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00:17:11
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00:17:13
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And I gotta say, it really works.
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00:17:16
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Let's talk the stuff that was actually announced, right?
00:17:53
◼
►
iPhone 14s, the reviews all dropped.
00:17:57
◼
►
Well, most of them dropped on Wednesday.
00:18:02
◼
►
- Yeah, to make it clear,
00:18:04
◼
►
I'm on this show because I texted Jon
00:18:06
◼
►
and said, "Where's your review?"
00:18:08
◼
►
- No, you said, "Are you reviewing the phone?"
00:18:12
◼
►
- Yeah, did you just quit this year?
00:18:13
◼
►
Are you just out?
00:18:16
◼
►
- I had nothing to say.
00:18:18
◼
►
- I'm looking at it now, it's like 20,000 words.
00:18:23
◼
►
- It's actually longer than usual.
00:18:25
◼
►
I knew it was gonna be longer than usual.
00:18:27
◼
►
There's a couple of, number one,
00:18:32
◼
►
I'm a slow writer and I'm always late,
00:18:34
◼
►
and so it's my fault.
00:18:35
◼
►
And if I had any sort of deadline,
00:18:39
◼
►
ability to hit deadlines in my brain,
00:18:42
◼
►
I still could have done it.
00:18:43
◼
►
So it's on me, I'm not making excuses.
00:18:45
◼
►
But they didn't give us the phones until the next day.
00:18:49
◼
►
And traditionally, the day of the keynote,
00:18:52
◼
►
then in the afternoon, the press briefing,
00:18:55
◼
►
the one-on-one briefings where they hand reviewers
00:18:58
◼
►
the kit you're going to get happen,
00:19:00
◼
►
and then you can get started.
00:19:01
◼
►
Well, those didn't happen until the next day.
00:19:04
◼
►
And the event wasn't on a Tuesday, it was on a Wednesday,
00:19:07
◼
►
'cause it happened in Labor Day week.
00:19:10
◼
►
So everything got pushed back a week.
00:19:12
◼
►
But they always launched the things on the next Friday.
00:19:17
◼
►
That's set in stone and has never, ever, ever
00:19:20
◼
►
been an exception to it, right?
00:19:21
◼
►
Phones always come out on a Friday.
00:19:23
◼
►
So effectively, to hit the embargo, we only had five days.
00:19:29
◼
►
- Which, a week for me, is really pushing it.
00:19:32
◼
►
And I don't shoot video, but for me,
00:19:34
◼
►
a week is really pushing it.
00:19:36
◼
►
And it turns out, it took me a week.
00:19:40
◼
►
- Well, so candidly for me, we just kinda dropped
00:19:43
◼
►
the battery life testing.
00:19:44
◼
►
But you can't do it.
00:19:46
◼
►
Like, we were tracking it, but without that extra
00:19:50
◼
►
couple days, the way you wanna do it is you just wanna
00:19:52
◼
►
use the phone as normal for as long as you can.
00:19:55
◼
►
But we were shooting videos and looking at photos.
00:19:57
◼
►
We had to turn the brightness up and point a camera at it.
00:20:01
◼
►
And it's like, all I can tell you is that I think
00:20:05
◼
►
the battery runs down a little bit faster
00:20:06
◼
►
on the Pro than usual.
00:20:07
◼
►
I'll let you know in the future.
00:20:10
◼
►
But that was very candidly the thing I had to just let go.
00:20:13
◼
►
I kind of put something similar in my review
00:20:16
◼
►
where it was something, something to the effect of,
00:20:18
◼
►
look, when I'm testing these phones,
00:20:20
◼
►
I'm shooting way more video than I usually do,
00:20:23
◼
►
taking more photos, and just using it more, right?
00:20:25
◼
►
Because as opposed to in a normal week
00:20:29
◼
►
where I might think, hey, I've been dicking around
00:20:31
◼
►
on my phone too much, I should sit down at my Mac
00:20:33
◼
►
and get to work, right, and work.
00:20:36
◼
►
And I've got a sort of thing in the back of my head saying,
00:20:39
◼
►
don't waste too much time on your phone.
00:20:41
◼
►
When you're testing a new phone to try to develop
00:20:45
◼
►
a fully formed opinion in five days to get a review
00:20:50
◼
►
that you think is going to stand the test of time,
00:20:52
◼
►
you're using the phone all the time.
00:20:54
◼
►
You're trying to use the phone more.
00:20:56
◼
►
So it's literally, I really think impossible
00:21:01
◼
►
to simultaneously use a phone to review it
00:21:04
◼
►
and gauge what's the actual battery life.
00:21:09
◼
►
And the only way to gauge battery life, in my opinion,
00:21:12
◼
►
is to just sort of use the phone in normal use
00:21:15
◼
►
and then tell people, here's how the battery did.
00:21:18
◼
►
Because how can you test it?
00:21:19
◼
►
There's no test that simulates practical use.
00:21:22
◼
►
And it's so complicated.
00:21:24
◼
►
You can't run some kind of bench.
00:21:25
◼
►
I know that's what Apple does, is they'll just play
00:21:29
◼
►
streaming video until the battery runs dry
00:21:32
◼
►
and say 22 hours of streaming video.
00:21:35
◼
►
Or music playback, that's one of my favorites, right?
00:21:37
◼
►
If you just let it play music on battery,
00:21:40
◼
►
it'll last 63 hours.
00:21:41
◼
►
I'm making these numbers up.
00:21:42
◼
►
But how is that useful, right?
00:21:45
◼
►
- So it's interesting that they have traditionally
00:21:48
◼
►
used those sorts of metrics with MacBooks.
00:21:50
◼
►
And I sort of get why.
00:21:53
◼
►
It's just like, here's a thing you can do.
00:21:55
◼
►
With phones, I mean, and this is something
00:21:59
◼
►
we have chased for years, Apple has this set
00:22:01
◼
►
of telemetry data that they have worked into
00:22:05
◼
►
some sort of model where they can model
00:22:09
◼
►
basically an average day of iPhone processor usage
00:22:12
◼
►
and sensor usage and whatever usage
00:22:15
◼
►
against the capacity of the battery.
00:22:17
◼
►
I don't have access to this model,
00:22:19
◼
►
so we just have to use the phones like normals and guess.
00:22:23
◼
►
But Apple, the switch they've made, I think, this year
00:22:25
◼
►
with, hey, it's this many hours of video playback,
00:22:29
◼
►
like in the past, they would just say like 12 hours
00:22:32
◼
►
of battery life or whatever it is.
00:22:33
◼
►
'Cause they have a model, and that's why Apple's
00:22:36
◼
►
traditionally better at underestimating
00:22:38
◼
►
their own battery life, because they have the data
00:22:42
◼
►
about iPhone usage that lets them do it
00:22:44
◼
►
in a way that they kind of can't get with the Mac.
00:22:47
◼
►
- But this one's just a weird one.
00:22:51
◼
►
- Especially on the Pro, because of the always-on display.
00:22:53
◼
►
- Yeah, right, and again, we've only got so much time.
00:22:57
◼
►
Most of the time, we wanna spend using it.
00:22:59
◼
►
I like to try to use it the way they intend you to use it,
00:23:02
◼
►
and the way they intend you to use the new 14 Pros
00:23:05
◼
►
is with the always-on display at its default setting.
00:23:09
◼
►
And so any sort of determination of, well,
00:23:12
◼
►
what happens if you turn off the always-on display
00:23:15
◼
►
and just have it go off like all the other iPhones
00:23:19
◼
►
in existence, does that actually give you
00:23:21
◼
►
a day-to-day boost?
00:23:22
◼
►
- Well, there's no possible way you could figure that out
00:23:24
◼
►
in a week while you're simultaneously testing the phone.
00:23:27
◼
►
It's not possible.
00:23:28
◼
►
I mean, we'll find out, and it's just one of those things
00:23:30
◼
►
where I didn't wanna worry about it,
00:23:32
◼
►
'cause it's like, we'll be able to do it.
00:23:33
◼
►
It's just, we won't have it.
00:23:35
◼
►
You and I won't have it in this golden week
00:23:38
◼
►
where we've got the new iPhones and nobody else does, right?
00:23:41
◼
►
I mean, it's going to come out if battery life
00:23:43
◼
►
actually suffers because of the always-on display.
00:23:46
◼
►
- Yeah, my instinct is that it,
00:23:51
◼
►
I mean, this is in your review too.
00:23:52
◼
►
We're starting with the least interesting thing.
00:23:54
◼
►
- I know, we really are.
00:23:55
◼
►
- We're gonna build our way up to yonder.
00:23:56
◼
►
But it's a really weird always-on display.
00:23:59
◼
►
- No, I don't think it's the most,
00:24:00
◼
►
to me, it's the second most interesting thing.
00:24:02
◼
►
It's not the second most important thing,
00:24:04
◼
►
but I called it super interesting,
00:24:06
◼
►
'cause I think it is incredibly interesting.
00:24:09
◼
►
So I think it's okay to start with it.
00:24:11
◼
►
It's a wild always-on display.
00:24:13
◼
►
I mean, the thing I wrote in my review is,
00:24:16
◼
►
honestly, what did I say?
00:24:17
◼
►
Microjolt, thousands of microjolts of panic all week long
00:24:22
◼
►
every time I glance at it.
00:24:24
◼
►
Because before my conscious brain can register,
00:24:26
◼
►
yes, this is the new phone with an always-on display,
00:24:29
◼
►
I immediately think, oh my god, my phone's broken.
00:24:32
◼
►
Something's gone out of control
00:24:34
◼
►
and the battery's ragingly depleted
00:24:36
◼
►
because I haven't touched it in half an hour
00:24:38
◼
►
and the screen is still fully on.
00:24:40
◼
►
- Yeah, no, it's really weird.
00:24:42
◼
►
So I was sitting next to Becca Farsacce,
00:24:44
◼
►
our video director who was making the review with me,
00:24:47
◼
►
and we both had them, and both of us, all day long,
00:24:51
◼
►
were tapping on the screen,
00:24:52
◼
►
'cause we were like, why is this on?
00:24:53
◼
►
It's just strange.
00:24:54
◼
►
I mean, Apple's late to the game here,
00:24:57
◼
►
and Android phones have had this forever.
00:24:58
◼
►
And mostly what Android phones mean by always-on
00:25:02
◼
►
is mostly-off.
00:25:04
◼
►
Like, the game they have played is they can drop,
00:25:06
◼
►
they can turn off most of an OLED display, it goes to black,
00:25:09
◼
►
and they can selectively light up some pixels
00:25:11
◼
►
to show you a clock.
00:25:12
◼
►
- Right, and maybe like a signal strength indicator,
00:25:14
◼
►
like the status bar stays on or something like that,
00:25:17
◼
►
but you get the date and the clock in ghosted-out white
00:25:20
◼
►
on an OLED black, and it's--
00:25:22
◼
►
- It looks fine, right?
00:25:24
◼
►
And now there's like however many years of iteration,
00:25:26
◼
►
seven years of iteration on Android.
00:25:28
◼
►
So now there's customizations,
00:25:30
◼
►
there's the different manufacturers have different looks,
00:25:32
◼
►
the off-screen looks different than the lock screen.
00:25:34
◼
►
It's a whole world, it's a whole ecosystem
00:25:37
◼
►
of always-on displays.
00:25:38
◼
►
And Apple's like, it's your lock screen, but dimmer.
00:25:48
◼
►
- I actually dug out my old iPhone 5S and powered it on,
00:25:53
◼
►
and I actually have a suspicion that the new phone
00:25:58
◼
►
in always-on state is about as bright as like
00:26:03
◼
►
a 10-year-old iPhone with sort of default brightness settings
00:26:06
◼
►
It's that bright.
00:26:07
◼
►
I'm not joking.
00:26:09
◼
►
Like I wrote in my review,
00:26:10
◼
►
if the phone sort of malfunctioned or broke
00:26:13
◼
►
or like three years from now it was sort of flaking out,
00:26:16
◼
►
and the maximum screen brightness was,
00:26:19
◼
►
that I could ever get was about as bright as it gets
00:26:22
◼
►
in always-on mode.
00:26:23
◼
►
You could totally use the phone.
00:26:24
◼
►
Like the way that people will use a phone
00:26:26
◼
►
with a cracked screen that isn't all that cracked.
00:26:29
◼
►
There's all sorts of ways your phone can get damaged
00:26:31
◼
►
and people still use it.
00:26:32
◼
►
I was in New York on Wednesday for an all afternoon meeting
00:26:36
◼
►
that again, another reason my review was late,
00:26:39
◼
►
but you know, my fault.
00:26:40
◼
►
But it was interesting to travel with the phone,
00:26:42
◼
►
but for reasons could not, had to happen this week,
00:26:45
◼
►
even though ordinarily I'd go to extraordinary lengths
00:26:48
◼
►
not to schedule anything during iPhone review week.
00:26:50
◼
►
But I was on the train from Philly and I saw a guy
00:26:53
◼
►
and I was like, whoa, that's a wild looking phone.
00:26:55
◼
►
I think it was some kind of Android phone,
00:26:57
◼
►
but he'd obviously, it wasn't cracked,
00:26:59
◼
►
but about one third of the way over on his screen
00:27:04
◼
►
while holding it in a regular up and down vertical format,
00:27:08
◼
►
there was like this lightsaber bright vertical line
00:27:13
◼
►
from the bottom to the top, perfectly straight,
00:27:15
◼
►
maybe about 10 pixels wide.
00:27:18
◼
►
Like the clearly the brightest the screen could possibly get
00:27:22
◼
►
just permanently just, and I salute him.
00:27:25
◼
►
And the guy obviously wasn't, he was well-dried,
00:27:28
◼
►
had a full suit on and he's like, ah, fuck it.
00:27:30
◼
►
And it's like sort of a cool look really.
00:27:32
◼
►
- That's just his wallpaper look.
00:27:36
◼
►
- No, I thought it was his wallpaper,
00:27:37
◼
►
but then I saw him flicking around and it's like, oh shit,
00:27:40
◼
►
man, it looked like a cool wallpaper.
00:27:42
◼
►
And instead it's like,
00:27:44
◼
►
that's just how his phone looks all the time.
00:27:46
◼
►
But I swear if that's as bright as the iPhone 14 Pro
00:27:49
◼
►
ever got, you could totally use this phone
00:27:52
◼
►
except maybe in bright light.
00:27:54
◼
►
But I have to say too, on the way home from New York
00:27:58
◼
►
down to Philly, I was like, there's a five, yeah,
00:28:01
◼
►
five o'clock, five to six Acela.
00:28:04
◼
►
And around this time of year, the sun is getting lower
00:28:07
◼
►
and it was a really nice day Wednesday.
00:28:09
◼
►
So the sun was, and I happened to sit on the sunny side
00:28:13
◼
►
of the train and super bright sunlight
00:28:18
◼
►
streaming through the window of the train
00:28:21
◼
►
onto the table desk.
00:28:23
◼
►
I don't know what you call those things on the Acela.
00:28:25
◼
►
I guess it's a table.
00:28:26
◼
►
I'm typing on my MacBook Pro,
00:28:29
◼
►
actually writing my review for squeezing another hour
00:28:32
◼
►
of writing in with the phone sitting next to it.
00:28:36
◼
►
And because the sun was so bright,
00:28:38
◼
►
the phone detected that it was bright.
00:28:42
◼
►
It is insane how bright the always on was
00:28:45
◼
►
while it was bathed in the full rays
00:28:49
◼
►
of mid September bright sunshine.
00:28:51
◼
►
It was shocking.
00:28:53
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, I think they missed a trick with it.
00:28:56
◼
►
I think it would have been better if it was more off.
00:28:59
◼
►
And they allowed some of these,
00:29:00
◼
►
there's a lot of new widgets.
00:29:02
◼
►
Like the whole Dynamic Island
00:29:03
◼
►
is basically a new widget system.
00:29:05
◼
►
So I get there's only so many more widgets
00:29:07
◼
►
they can demand of developers.
00:29:10
◼
►
But there's a move here where they actually make it
00:29:13
◼
►
more different than the lock screen
00:29:15
◼
►
and that makes more sense.
00:29:16
◼
►
And I think they just need to get there.
00:29:17
◼
►
And what they will say is we didn't want to do
00:29:19
◼
►
the always on the cover analysis doing so we did it our way.
00:29:21
◼
►
And it's like, well, there's, you didn't,
00:29:24
◼
►
it's sometimes it's fine to piggyback
00:29:26
◼
►
on seven years of Android iteration.
00:29:29
◼
►
And that whole huge market has landed on mostly
00:29:32
◼
►
black and white for a reason.
00:29:34
◼
►
- I do think we have this weird,
00:29:38
◼
►
and it's been here forever, not forever,
00:29:41
◼
►
but for as long as the iPhone Sam dominant era
00:29:46
◼
►
of smartphones has existed, let's say 2010 onward.
00:29:51
◼
►
This and it doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon
00:29:54
◼
►
where Apple and the entire Android industry
00:29:59
◼
►
are have this very strange relationship with each other.
00:30:03
◼
►
And I know some people go nuts when I pointed out,
00:30:07
◼
►
but it's like the Android side will at times
00:30:12
◼
►
shamelessly copy from Apple.
00:30:14
◼
►
There's a new Samsung Galaxy home app,
00:30:18
◼
►
which you cannot believe when you see it
00:30:21
◼
►
that it's not the iOS home app.
00:30:24
◼
►
I mean, it's not just at a glance.
00:30:27
◼
►
It's like you would actually have to get there
00:30:28
◼
►
and like really look at the fonts to see,
00:30:30
◼
►
oh, that's not San Francisco.
00:30:32
◼
►
That's the Android font.
00:30:33
◼
►
It is so cool.
00:30:35
◼
►
It's one of the most preposterous ripoffs I've ever seen,
00:30:38
◼
►
which is ridiculous because everybody thinks iOS
00:30:41
◼
►
is home app stinks, right?
00:30:43
◼
►
It's one of my least favorite interfaces
00:30:46
◼
►
that Apple has ever come up with.
00:30:48
◼
►
I, it boggles my mind that this is still the home interface
00:30:53
◼
►
and yet Samsung copied it.
00:30:54
◼
►
And then on the flip side, Apple seemed,
00:30:57
◼
►
not that they haven't, there's certainly ideas
00:30:59
◼
►
that were Android first that they've taken, right?
00:31:01
◼
►
And notifications, iOS was way behind on like a notification.
00:31:06
◼
►
They didn't even have a notification center
00:31:08
◼
►
until after it was well-established on Android.
00:31:11
◼
►
So there are ideas that have gone Android first.
00:31:15
◼
►
I'm not saying that Apple doesn't take anything
00:31:17
◼
►
that comes from Android and then do it,
00:31:19
◼
►
but there are other times where it seems like
00:31:21
◼
►
their pride keeps them from following something
00:31:25
◼
►
that they didn't do first when they should.
00:31:29
◼
►
Yeah, and there's an element of that copying back and forth
00:31:31
◼
►
is it's kind of just related to switching costs.
00:31:34
◼
►
Like one of the reasons things tend to look
00:31:37
◼
►
like the Apple way is 'cause asking someone
00:31:41
◼
►
to think about a new way of turning on the light bulbs
00:31:43
◼
►
in your house is too much.
00:31:46
◼
►
So might as well just look like the phone you had before.
00:31:48
◼
►
Like the amount you can gain by reinventing that
00:31:53
◼
►
is very low compared to the amount of,
00:31:56
◼
►
well, actually we need you to like Android notifications
00:31:58
◼
►
overall are way different, right?
00:32:01
◼
►
Apple is just like insistent that you're gonna think
00:32:03
◼
►
about things their way even when the best way
00:32:06
◼
►
has been kind of like I'm saying, relentlessly iterated on
00:32:09
◼
►
in the biggest phone markets in the world
00:32:11
◼
►
in China and India, right?
00:32:13
◼
►
Like that's where Android phones are huge.
00:32:15
◼
►
And there's ferocious competition
00:32:18
◼
►
for the best always on display.
00:32:19
◼
►
And you can just like boost it
00:32:20
◼
►
and no one's gonna get mad at you.
00:32:24
◼
►
- So the first thing, and I spent the most words on,
00:32:29
◼
►
is just the fact that it really, and I think most people who,
00:32:33
◼
►
obviously my site in particular is from people
00:32:36
◼
►
who are fully permanently all in on the iOS side.
00:32:40
◼
►
And the biggest lock-in is honestly just the way
00:32:43
◼
►
that your mind is sort of as a human, right,
00:32:46
◼
►
locks into the way the system works, right?
00:32:51
◼
►
I remember at like sort of the peak
00:32:53
◼
►
of Mac versus Windows competition.
00:32:56
◼
►
And I would say it's epitomized by the era
00:33:00
◼
►
when Adobe, Photoshop and Illustrator,
00:33:05
◼
►
and like when InDesign was new,
00:33:09
◼
►
and that those were really the only apps designers used.
00:33:12
◼
►
And Adobe had really pulled off the very difficult feat
00:33:17
◼
►
of complete parity between them.
00:33:20
◼
►
And the Mac user interface nerd that I am combined with
00:33:25
◼
►
at the time being a designer was annoyed by all the ways
00:33:28
◼
►
that Adobe's previously gloriously Mac human interface,
00:33:33
◼
►
consistent apps had sort of gone in a,
00:33:38
◼
►
not in a Windows way, but the way that app,
00:33:41
◼
►
big companies like Adobe that are trying
00:33:43
◼
►
to pull off something like that
00:33:44
◼
►
sort of developed their own language, right?
00:33:46
◼
►
They developed an Adobe style of interface
00:33:50
◼
►
that was on Mac and Windows.
00:33:52
◼
►
- Kai's Power Tools is my favorite.
00:33:54
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, oh that's. (laughs)
00:33:57
◼
►
- Just like what is happening here?
00:33:59
◼
►
- I used to enjoy, we had it at the student newspaper
00:34:03
◼
►
and we, I used to, I never used it.
00:34:05
◼
►
I never did a damn thing with it
00:34:06
◼
►
because obviously the stuff that Kai's Power Tools did
00:34:09
◼
►
is not my style of design, but I loved firing it up
00:34:12
◼
►
just to like, just to play with it 'cause it was glorious.
00:34:15
◼
►
No, but it really was, and if your job was
00:34:19
◼
►
using Photoshop and Illustrator and that's it,
00:34:22
◼
►
you could have easily just switched from Mac to Windows
00:34:25
◼
►
or vice versa because the Adobe tools
00:34:27
◼
►
really were completely compatible,
00:34:28
◼
►
but nobody did it because you just, one side or the other,
00:34:32
◼
►
you were locked into the way the file system was organized
00:34:34
◼
►
and stuff like that.
00:34:36
◼
►
So my readers are obviously on the iOS side of things.
00:34:39
◼
►
I think that they're gonna be like me
00:34:41
◼
►
where obviously Apple's very late to the idea
00:34:44
◼
►
of having an always-on iPhone display.
00:34:47
◼
►
And for years, the longer you've been on the iPhone,
00:34:50
◼
►
the more I think ingrained it is is the idea
00:34:53
◼
►
that one of the top ways to preserve your battery
00:34:56
◼
►
is to keep the screen off as much as you can
00:34:59
◼
►
and going back further in time,
00:35:02
◼
►
to keep the brightness a little dimmer
00:35:05
◼
►
than you'd like it to be, and you could really eke out
00:35:07
◼
►
a lot more all-day battery life
00:35:10
◼
►
in the early era of smartphones.
00:35:13
◼
►
By keeping the brightness,
00:35:14
◼
►
this doesn't actually look great,
00:35:16
◼
►
but you keep it easy enough to read
00:35:18
◼
►
but not as bright as you'd really like it to be,
00:35:20
◼
►
but you could definitely see,
00:35:23
◼
►
oh, I get through all day now,
00:35:25
◼
►
whereas when I had the brightness up where it looks best,
00:35:27
◼
►
it's dead by eight o'clock.
00:35:29
◼
►
So it's just ingrained in your habit as an iPhone user to,
00:35:33
◼
►
if you're not using it, you want the screen off.
00:35:36
◼
►
- Yeah. - It's driving me nuts
00:35:39
◼
►
that the goddamn screen's always on.
00:35:41
◼
►
So here's the other question,
00:35:43
◼
►
the thing I wound up with in the review.
00:35:45
◼
►
- You can turn it off.
00:35:46
◼
►
- What is the purpose of the always-on display?
00:35:49
◼
►
- Cynically, my answer is they need to add more stuff
00:35:53
◼
►
to the iPhone every year,
00:35:55
◼
►
and they finally got to the point
00:35:56
◼
►
where this was on the list.
00:35:58
◼
►
I don't think there's a point beyond it,
00:36:00
◼
►
'cause they're not attracting Android switchers
00:36:03
◼
►
because they've added an always-on display,
00:36:05
◼
►
especially one like this.
00:36:07
◼
►
- I think part of it is that,
00:36:09
◼
►
and they wanted to do it their way,
00:36:11
◼
►
and their way means showing off technically
00:36:14
◼
►
in a way that nobody else can compete with, right?
00:36:17
◼
►
I don't think there's a phone on the market
00:36:18
◼
►
that could possibly, and like you said,
00:36:20
◼
►
if there is a noticeable battery life detriment to this,
00:36:24
◼
►
it's not so bad that we're not getting through a full day
00:36:26
◼
►
with the iPhone 14 Pro, right?
00:36:28
◼
►
I mean- - Yeah.
00:36:30
◼
►
No, happily getting through a full day.
00:36:31
◼
►
I would say that maybe they waited to add,
00:36:33
◼
►
this is the non-clinical answer,
00:36:35
◼
►
they needed to get to, what's it, the A16,
00:36:38
◼
►
with its battery draw against the battery in this thing,
00:36:41
◼
►
and they could finally add it in an acceptable rate
00:36:44
◼
►
of power consumption, 'cause they got the chip
00:36:47
◼
►
that's efficient enough to pull it off.
00:36:50
◼
►
I'm sure that it's some mishmash of those things.
00:36:53
◼
►
- Yeah, and the other thing, I don't understand it.
00:36:55
◼
►
If I ever had the opportunity to pick somebody's brain
00:36:58
◼
►
for an hour and have them explain it to me,
00:37:00
◼
►
I understand how going from like a 60 hertz refresh
00:37:03
◼
►
to 120 is technically difficult, right?
00:37:07
◼
►
Higher frame rate is just,
00:37:09
◼
►
you don't even have to understand how cameras work
00:37:12
◼
►
or displays work.
00:37:14
◼
►
Going faster is harder.
00:37:16
◼
►
I've never quite understood why going to one hertz
00:37:20
◼
►
is technically difficult, but I am to understand
00:37:23
◼
►
that it's actually incredibly difficult,
00:37:26
◼
►
that updating once per second is actually really, really hard
00:37:29
◼
►
and that these displays are also very, very expensive
00:37:34
◼
►
It really does justify the price delta beyond,
00:37:40
◼
►
marketing segmentation at just a pure cost
00:37:43
◼
►
to produce these devices way, the display,
00:37:46
◼
►
the promotion displays are really more expensive
00:37:49
◼
►
than the ones in the iPhone 14 non-pro.
00:37:54
◼
►
- Is that a one hertz difficulty
00:37:57
◼
►
or is that a promotion from one to 120 hertz difficulty?
00:38:00
◼
►
- I am to understand that, well,
00:38:01
◼
►
'cause you have to have promotion to go to one hertz, right?
00:38:04
◼
►
- Sure. - Right,
00:38:05
◼
►
because nobody's gonna buy a display
00:38:06
◼
►
that only updates it once a second.
00:38:10
◼
►
Although I guess that's sort of like,
00:38:13
◼
►
I guess that's like a Kindle.
00:38:15
◼
►
- Yeah, it's like many e-ink displays,
00:38:17
◼
►
but also Apple's very serious about screen time.
00:38:19
◼
►
If they just locked you into once per second
00:38:21
◼
►
for a couple hours a day,
00:38:23
◼
►
I mean, how do you solve the social media problem?
00:38:24
◼
►
- Yeah, that would be a good thing to do.
00:38:27
◼
►
And if you have your kid set on a schedule like that,
00:38:29
◼
►
you could be like, you know what?
00:38:30
◼
►
You can use your phones and your devices
00:38:32
◼
►
as much as you want after seven o'clock at night,
00:38:34
◼
►
but it'll be at one hertz.
00:38:38
◼
►
- Yeah, TikTok is effectively over-prepared.
00:38:40
◼
►
- Yeah. (laughing)
00:38:43
◼
►
TikTok at one frame per second.
00:38:46
◼
►
Oh, that would be great.
00:38:48
◼
►
Mine, yeah, and the promotion part,
00:38:51
◼
►
the fact that it dynamically shifts
00:38:53
◼
►
from 120 all the way down to one.
00:38:55
◼
►
Also, apparently, well, of course,
00:38:56
◼
►
I mean, that does sound technically difficult,
00:38:59
◼
►
even as a total layperson not even understanding it.
00:39:01
◼
►
You just think, yeah, that seems really wild,
00:39:04
◼
►
especially if it's done in a way
00:39:05
◼
►
that the user is never, ever, ever supposed to notice
00:39:08
◼
►
and, in fact, I never, ever notice
00:39:10
◼
►
that it always seems to be running at 120 to me.
00:39:13
◼
►
Difficult to do and expensive to produce, I get it.
00:39:17
◼
►
Here's my non-cynical answer
00:39:19
◼
►
to what they think the purpose of the always-on display is,
00:39:23
◼
►
which is these live activities, which aren't out yet.
00:39:28
◼
►
So it really makes it a hard marketing sell at the moment.
00:39:34
◼
►
It's, I guess, coming in Iowa 16.1
00:39:38
◼
►
because the beta, the first beta for 16.1
00:39:41
◼
►
came out like two days ago and now it's been there.
00:39:43
◼
►
- Yeah, and they have been saying this year
00:39:45
◼
►
and it's September, so it feels like it's gotta be
00:39:48
◼
►
in this next round.
00:39:49
◼
►
- Yeah, but on the other hand,
00:39:50
◼
►
they usually get to at least the .2 by the end of the year,
00:39:54
◼
►
if not the .3, right?
00:39:56
◼
►
They've sort of, and I think to their credit,
00:39:59
◼
►
I think it's actually worked out great,
00:40:01
◼
►
even though it's badgering users to get to,
00:40:04
◼
►
I mean, what's iOS 15 up to?
00:40:06
◼
►
A 15.7, I think?
00:40:07
◼
►
Maybe it's 15.6 or wherever it finished,
00:40:11
◼
►
but they get six or seven of these point updates
00:40:15
◼
►
out throughout the year, all the way up through the summer
00:40:18
◼
►
while they're already working on the next year's thing
00:40:21
◼
►
and break features apart into them.
00:40:23
◼
►
So it's either coming out, I don't know,
00:40:25
◼
►
next month or sometime this year,
00:40:28
◼
►
but it does, if that's sort of the point,
00:40:30
◼
►
and it makes sense that, okay, the hardware's the thing
00:40:34
◼
►
that is set in motion two years,
00:40:38
◼
►
at least two years in advance.
00:40:39
◼
►
And they probably knew more than two years,
00:40:42
◼
►
I guess three or four years ago,
00:40:44
◼
►
that this would be the year when the iPhone 14 Pros
00:40:48
◼
►
should have this always on display.
00:40:52
◼
►
So that meant the software,
00:40:53
◼
►
and if the reason is to show off these live activities
00:40:57
◼
►
so that you could just leave your phone at the desk
00:40:59
◼
►
and have the Packers game in a live activity
00:41:04
◼
►
while you're doing something else,
00:41:06
◼
►
and every time you glance at the phone,
00:41:08
◼
►
the score is accurate and the time remaining is accurate
00:41:12
◼
►
to within 15, 30 seconds or something like that,
00:41:15
◼
►
it makes sense that they're coming out in the same year.
00:41:18
◼
►
And I think it's just, it's sort of, ah,
00:41:21
◼
►
unfortunately this feature and software
00:41:23
◼
►
wasn't ready in time in September.
00:41:26
◼
►
But is that even, no matter how useful these live activities
00:41:29
◼
►
are going to prove once we have them,
00:41:31
◼
►
and we don't have them yet, right?
00:41:32
◼
►
None of, it's not even like Apple has them
00:41:35
◼
►
and third parties have to wait till later this year.
00:41:38
◼
►
The live activities API just isn't in iOS 16.
00:41:41
◼
►
I still don't know if it's worth it, right?
00:41:44
◼
►
I don't know.
00:41:45
◼
►
Maybe that's just me though, that I don't,
00:41:47
◼
►
if I was going to follow the game,
00:41:49
◼
►
it wouldn't be by following it on my iPhone
00:41:53
◼
►
while it's sitting on a table.
00:41:57
◼
►
- Well, maybe, I mean, there's an element.
00:41:58
◼
►
Do you do the thing where you flip your phone over
00:42:01
◼
►
when you're like at a restaurant or you're talking to,
00:42:03
◼
►
I do this all the time.
00:42:04
◼
►
- I keep it in my pocket is what I do.
00:42:07
◼
►
- So yeah, so I'm one of these people
00:42:09
◼
►
that takes their phone out and then to indicate
00:42:11
◼
►
that I'm actually paying attention here.
00:42:13
◼
►
- Live activities, by the way, to me overall
00:42:16
◼
►
seems like the feature of iOS 16.
00:42:18
◼
►
Like maybe the most important feature of iOS 16.
00:42:22
◼
►
It's hard to evaluate.
00:42:23
◼
►
But you know, the dynamic island is built on live activities.
00:42:27
◼
►
The promise of that whole thing depends on that shipping
00:42:29
◼
►
and developers using it.
00:42:31
◼
►
So I could see a world where, yeah,
00:42:34
◼
►
there's a game on that I want to pay attention to,
00:42:37
◼
►
but I'm out and talking to someone
00:42:38
◼
►
and instead of flipping my phone over,
00:42:39
◼
►
the score is updating at one hertz.
00:42:41
◼
►
- Yeah, but on the other hand,
00:42:42
◼
►
you can see how you do it.
00:42:43
◼
►
- Doesn't this defeat the purpose though
00:42:45
◼
►
with the screen being so bright?
00:42:49
◼
►
Right, so me and you go out to lunch or dinner
00:42:53
◼
►
or something like that and you want to do your thing,
00:42:56
◼
►
which I try to keep my phone in my pocket
00:42:58
◼
►
in such social situations,
00:43:00
◼
►
but you want to make it seem as though you're engaged,
00:43:04
◼
►
you're present in the conversation at the table,
00:43:06
◼
►
but you are watching the Packers
00:43:09
◼
►
or trying to stay up to date,
00:43:10
◼
►
'cause damn it, who the hell decided to have this dinner
00:43:13
◼
►
when the Packers were on Thursday Night Football?
00:43:15
◼
►
And there's your phone at this crazy brightness.
00:43:20
◼
►
- Right, it would make more sense at black and white
00:43:22
◼
►
than just the scores.
00:43:23
◼
►
- Yeah, again, I think Apple wants you
00:43:27
◼
►
to use your phone less.
00:43:28
◼
►
I saw Tim Cook and Johnny Ivan learn pile jobs at Code,
00:43:32
◼
►
and Kara is always saying,
00:43:34
◼
►
the reason that journalists are here is to ask questions.
00:43:36
◼
►
So I always go and ask questions.
00:43:37
◼
►
And I was like, you guys are talking about
00:43:39
◼
►
how much Steve Jobs hates social networks.
00:43:41
◼
►
You make the phones of the social networks run on,
00:43:44
◼
►
and he's like, yeah, we have screen time.
00:43:45
◼
►
We want you to use your phone less.
00:43:46
◼
►
And so I get it.
00:43:48
◼
►
There's some element of this where the always on display
00:43:52
◼
►
theoretically lets you use your phone less,
00:43:54
◼
►
because the information is passively coming to you.
00:43:57
◼
►
But it's so bright that it still feels like
00:43:59
◼
►
it's actively coming to you.
00:44:00
◼
►
- Yeah. (laughing)
00:44:03
◼
►
I guess that's, we'll see.
00:44:04
◼
►
I don't wanna pass judgment on the live activities
00:44:07
◼
►
before I've used it, because it seems innovative
00:44:10
◼
►
and new enough that one of those things
00:44:12
◼
►
where my imagination of how little I might use it
00:44:14
◼
►
is I might be missing the ballpark.
00:44:16
◼
►
- Well, I think this is why we should start talking
00:44:18
◼
►
about the island.
00:44:19
◼
►
The point of the island is live activity.
00:44:21
◼
►
Let's take a break though first before we do.
00:44:24
◼
►
I gotta take care of some business here, Nely.
00:44:26
◼
►
You see, you don't know anything about running
00:44:27
◼
►
a internet publication.
00:44:31
◼
►
- No, I don't make any money.
00:44:32
◼
►
I just spend money.
00:44:33
◼
►
That's the great part of my game.
00:44:35
◼
►
- I've got bills to pay, my friend.
00:44:36
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but you want to get it from your phone,
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My thanks to them.
00:47:32
◼
►
All right, Dynamic Island time.
00:47:35
◼
►
- So it's why I'm here, man.
00:47:37
◼
►
I'm playing with it right now
00:47:38
◼
►
while you're reading these ads, just to--
00:47:40
◼
►
- Oh, I love the Dynamic Island.
00:47:42
◼
►
- It's pretty fun.
00:47:43
◼
►
- I liked your take on it.
00:47:44
◼
►
I think you're underestimating it already, though.
00:47:46
◼
►
I think it's already so super useful.
00:47:48
◼
►
I think you get it.
00:47:49
◼
►
I'm not saying you're wrong.
00:47:51
◼
►
I just still think you're ever so slightly missing
00:47:56
◼
►
how genius it is.
00:47:57
◼
►
- So okay, my take, just for the audience,
00:47:58
◼
►
I mean, you should obviously go read my review.
00:48:00
◼
►
Stop listening to this podcast, go read my review,
00:48:01
◼
►
watch the video, it's great.
00:48:02
◼
►
My take on it is basically connected
00:48:04
◼
►
to my feelings about live activities,
00:48:06
◼
►
that Apple's building this cool system
00:48:10
◼
►
that will allow more apps to sort of talk to you ambiently.
00:48:13
◼
►
And the Dynamic Island, it's the pinnacle of that system.
00:48:18
◼
►
I mean, the tech behind it is cool.
00:48:21
◼
►
The subpixel anti-aliasing is cool.
00:48:23
◼
►
It really does look like a secondary display
00:48:26
◼
►
on top of your display, unless you're in sunlight.
00:48:29
◼
►
But fine, physics has some limits.
00:48:32
◼
►
So I think that part's really cool.
00:48:34
◼
►
I think as you experience it today,
00:48:39
◼
►
it is like most of the things that you're doing on it
00:48:43
◼
►
are things that you don't interact with.
00:48:44
◼
►
- Like I disagree. - That to me is a good.
00:48:46
◼
►
- All right.
00:48:47
◼
►
- That's the road that has to be gone down.
00:48:49
◼
►
- Let me say this though.
00:48:50
◼
►
Let me just take a moment and no joke, no sarcasm
00:48:54
◼
►
to tell people to go read Neelai's review.
00:48:57
◼
►
But really, honestly, here's where I get
00:49:01
◼
►
to undermine you slightly.
00:49:03
◼
►
Go watch the video review because that's where you capture
00:49:08
◼
►
the crazy subpixel anti-aliasing stuff that they're doing
00:49:13
◼
►
to make it super smooth.
00:49:17
◼
►
Even at like 460 pixels per inch on the display,
00:49:21
◼
►
they're actually subpixel anti-aliasing
00:49:25
◼
►
the round black corners of the Dynamic Island
00:49:28
◼
►
to make them even smoother, which I wish,
00:49:31
◼
►
oh, this is one of those times where I really wish
00:49:34
◼
►
I had my eyes from 20 years ago.
00:49:38
◼
►
'Cause I know I'd notice it.
00:49:40
◼
►
And it's like, I'm too old,
00:49:41
◼
►
my eyes have gone through too much shit.
00:49:43
◼
►
Like I could see that it looks beautiful,
00:49:45
◼
►
but I can't tell that they're doing that.
00:49:46
◼
►
But I love that they're doing it.
00:49:49
◼
►
- Well, Apple cares more about corners on displays
00:49:54
◼
►
than any company in the history of the world, I think.
00:49:58
◼
►
- So all on the LCD iPhones, when I saw those,
00:50:00
◼
►
the liquid retina branding was just
00:50:02
◼
►
that it was a round LCD display.
00:50:05
◼
►
And they had built special little apertures
00:50:07
◼
►
for the pixels in the corners to make them perfectly round.
00:50:10
◼
►
That was a whole branding.
00:50:11
◼
►
They branded the whole thing 'cause they were so proud of it.
00:50:14
◼
►
They've done OLED subpixel anti-aliasing for years
00:50:18
◼
►
on the static corners of the display.
00:50:21
◼
►
And then the Island, they talked about it.
00:50:22
◼
►
They have built the ability inside the A16
00:50:27
◼
►
to now do that subpixel anti-aliasing
00:50:29
◼
►
at 120 frames per second, 120 hertz.
00:50:32
◼
►
So that is just cool.
00:50:34
◼
►
Like I will appreciate that about Apple
00:50:36
◼
►
more than anything, I always have.
00:50:38
◼
►
Like they care about displays,
00:50:39
◼
►
they care about this level of displays.
00:50:41
◼
►
And so whenever I have a chance to like
00:50:44
◼
►
point a macro lens at a screen, I'm gonna take it.
00:50:47
◼
►
I'm always gonna take that shot.
00:50:49
◼
►
Like give me the opportunity, I'll do it.
00:50:51
◼
►
And so here it's cool.
00:50:52
◼
►
It's like hard to see, like you have to really see it,
00:50:54
◼
►
but no one else is doing this like this.
00:50:57
◼
►
Even the rest of iOS, the anti-aliasing is abstracted out
00:51:02
◼
►
to the sort of like the symbolic pixel level,
00:51:05
◼
►
not the actual hardware subpixels.
00:51:08
◼
►
Yeah, and I think you nailed it exactly right
00:51:10
◼
►
in your review where it's,
00:51:12
◼
►
and it is exactly like the way they put
00:51:17
◼
►
this inordinate attention into the actual round corners
00:51:20
◼
►
of the display to go to the greatest possible length
00:51:25
◼
►
that they can to make it seem like the display
00:51:29
◼
►
actually has perfectly round corners,
00:51:32
◼
►
which is not the way displays work and can't work, right?
00:51:35
◼
►
There are no rounded, round cornered pixels up in a corner,
00:51:40
◼
►
but they'll go to this length of actually going
00:51:43
◼
►
to subpixel anti-aliasing,
00:51:45
◼
►
even though the actual pixels are so tiny
00:51:48
◼
►
to make the hardware display look like it actually
00:51:51
◼
►
has the round corners that it's supposed to.
00:51:54
◼
►
And in that exact same way,
00:51:55
◼
►
they're doing subpixel anti-aliasing with the dynamic island
00:51:59
◼
►
to make it seem like it's a hardware cutout
00:52:02
◼
►
that grows and shrinks and has content.
00:52:05
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, it's cool.
00:52:07
◼
►
It's just cool as hell.
00:52:09
◼
►
Like I'm saying, I think the concept is there.
00:52:12
◼
►
I think you are confident that a year from now
00:52:14
◼
►
it will realize its promise and my nature,
00:52:18
◼
►
I think at this point people have heard us talk about it,
00:52:20
◼
►
I've had fun many years in a row,
00:52:21
◼
►
my nature is let's wait and see.
00:52:23
◼
►
Like you gotta ship the API, the developer's gotta use it.
00:52:26
◼
►
We have to, Apple's gotta make sure that Uber
00:52:29
◼
►
doesn't like stick ads in it.
00:52:30
◼
►
Like there's a lot to come here.
00:52:33
◼
►
And so I'm just more on the wait and see side of things.
00:52:36
◼
►
- My take is that even if, I think the potential,
00:52:40
◼
►
it still hasn't reached the full potential,
00:52:42
◼
►
but where it is today,
00:52:44
◼
►
where I've been using it for the last week,
00:52:46
◼
►
even if it didn't get any better,
00:52:48
◼
►
it's already something I would never wanna go without.
00:52:50
◼
►
Here's my example.
00:52:52
◼
►
I was in New York two days ago,
00:52:54
◼
►
and I know my way around midtown,
00:52:57
◼
►
but I had to meet some friend, a friend and some other people
00:53:02
◼
►
and I just, I didn't wanna be late.
00:53:04
◼
►
I had just enough time.
00:53:05
◼
►
So I took the walking directions.
00:53:07
◼
►
If I weren't testing the iPhone,
00:53:09
◼
►
would I really have needed walking directions?
00:53:11
◼
►
No, the numbers in Manhattan tell you where to go.
00:53:14
◼
►
But I was like, you know what, let me do this.
00:53:16
◼
►
Let me pretend like I need the walking direction.
00:53:18
◼
►
So that's slightly, what's the word, constrained,
00:53:21
◼
►
not constrained, but construed?
00:53:23
◼
►
- Artificial, yeah.
00:53:24
◼
►
- But I was listening to podcast in Overcast,
00:53:28
◼
►
which has not been updated for the Dynamic Island
00:53:32
◼
►
because the APIs, there are no APIs for the Dynamic Island
00:53:35
◼
►
that are public yet, and Marco Arment obviously
00:53:38
◼
►
didn't know about it beforehand.
00:53:39
◼
►
So just using the regular version of Overcast
00:53:43
◼
►
that had no idea the Dynamic Island existed,
00:53:46
◼
►
but uses the now playing APIs in iOS,
00:53:49
◼
►
and like a typical tech-obsessed,
00:53:53
◼
►
short attention span person, while I'm walking
00:53:55
◼
►
through Midtown Manhattan, I'm texting people
00:53:58
◼
►
and tweeting and reading Twitter on my phone.
00:54:02
◼
►
And I've got the live directions constantly up there
00:54:06
◼
►
as the, I've got two things.
00:54:08
◼
►
Now I'm actually using two things in the Dynamic Island.
00:54:12
◼
►
The live directions get the left side.
00:54:16
◼
►
When there's two things, one of them gets
00:54:18
◼
►
the bigger chunk on the left side,
00:54:20
◼
►
and the other one just gets a little circle
00:54:23
◼
►
on the right side.
00:54:24
◼
►
That was Overcast, and I also did, I really did,
00:54:28
◼
►
this wasn't faked for the sense of dicking around
00:54:31
◼
►
with the Dynamic Island.
00:54:33
◼
►
While I'm crossing certain streets and stuff,
00:54:35
◼
►
or something happens, or I got distracted
00:54:39
◼
►
while I was texting somebody, and I wanted to go back
00:54:42
◼
►
30 seconds in the podcast 'cause I actually sort of
00:54:44
◼
►
wasn't paying attention there.
00:54:46
◼
►
It just, there I am, long press on Overcast
00:54:48
◼
►
in the Dynamic Island, the now playing,
00:54:51
◼
►
actual playback controls come down,
00:54:54
◼
►
I hit 30 seconds back, tap away, it goes back,
00:54:57
◼
►
and I'm there, and there's no context switching.
00:55:00
◼
►
I'm still, I never left messages.
00:55:03
◼
►
I'm still there in the messages conversation
00:55:06
◼
►
without leaving, it's no context switch.
00:55:08
◼
►
And oh, the turn-by-turn wants me to turn left to go,
00:55:13
◼
►
or turn right and go down Broadway.
00:55:16
◼
►
It's really useful as is without live activities yet,
00:55:20
◼
►
just with things like turn-by-turn, and the phone calls,
00:55:25
◼
►
and the now playing, and the stuff
00:55:27
◼
►
that already just goes there.
00:55:29
◼
►
And it's, to me, a real triumph.
00:55:32
◼
►
I've been skeptical about this whole movement towards,
00:55:36
◼
►
which what I think is best described as declarative UI,
00:55:41
◼
►
which is Swift U, and Swift UI is one example
00:55:43
◼
►
of this movement towards declarative UI,
00:55:45
◼
►
which is instead of designing everything to be pixel perfect,
00:55:50
◼
►
and this is exactly what it's going to look like.
00:55:52
◼
►
It'll have a white background,
00:55:54
◼
►
and it will be exactly this size or this size.
00:55:58
◼
►
Here's the three exact sizes it'll be,
00:56:00
◼
►
and here's the exact layout.
00:56:02
◼
►
You just declare where stuff will be.
00:56:04
◼
►
This goes on the left, this goes on the right,
00:56:06
◼
►
and this is, it's just sort of mid-size.
00:56:08
◼
►
Everything, without ever having known about it,
00:56:12
◼
►
the overcast playback controls look perfect,
00:56:15
◼
►
even though on the lock screen,
00:56:17
◼
►
which is what was known to be where now playing stuff,
00:56:22
◼
►
like when you're listening to a podcast
00:56:23
◼
►
and you can still control it from your lock screen now,
00:56:26
◼
►
it has a white background, right?
00:56:28
◼
►
So it's a total different color scheme.
00:56:30
◼
►
No software, no software update necessary.
00:56:35
◼
►
It already just works.
00:56:36
◼
►
It's a terrific experience.
00:56:40
◼
►
- Yeah, look, I'm not discounting
00:56:42
◼
►
that it's a good experience.
00:56:44
◼
►
I think what I'm saying is I think
00:56:47
◼
►
the point of the iPhone is apps,
00:56:50
◼
►
and when I am doing turn-by-turn directions,
00:56:54
◼
►
I'm most often in a car where I probably
00:56:57
◼
►
should not have another app open on my phone, right?
00:57:01
◼
►
I give the whole screen to that thing,
00:57:03
◼
►
and I did the walking directions test too,
00:57:05
◼
►
and I was like, I shouldn't be using my phone like this.
00:57:09
◼
►
That's actually how I felt in that moment.
00:57:11
◼
►
I am contriving some sort of test to make this happen,
00:57:17
◼
►
and the moment when you've got that many things going on,
00:57:22
◼
►
it felt like the things that are available right now
00:57:25
◼
►
do not rise to, I need to have these three things going on.
00:57:29
◼
►
I could see, okay, there's a Packers game going on
00:57:33
◼
►
that I need to pay attention to,
00:57:34
◼
►
but I'm texting someone else,
00:57:36
◼
►
and I've got a timer going 'cause I'm cooking.
00:57:40
◼
►
I can imagine the situation in my head,
00:57:43
◼
►
but I can't review it today.
00:57:45
◼
►
- I really just think it's terrific,
00:57:48
◼
►
but the flip side, and this is where I,
00:57:52
◼
►
again, I haven't caught up 'cause I didn't publish
00:57:54
◼
►
till super late last night.
00:57:55
◼
►
I've read your review, I've read Joanna's.
00:57:57
◼
►
Again, I'm not trying to toot my own horn.
00:58:00
◼
►
Maybe I'm off in left field,
00:58:03
◼
►
but I spent a lot of time in my review
00:58:05
◼
►
talking about the fact that all of these cool things,
00:58:08
◼
►
you can't do them, and you're not going to be able
00:58:11
◼
►
to do them on any other phones
00:58:13
◼
►
except the 14 Pro and Pro Max.
00:58:16
◼
►
Not the 13 Pro.
00:58:18
◼
►
If you bought a 13 Pro last year for 15 or $1,600,
00:58:22
◼
►
you don't get it, and if you buy a brand new iPhone 14,
00:58:27
◼
►
not Pro, this year, and you can get 'em,
00:58:31
◼
►
I forget how much they cost with 512 megabytes.
00:58:33
◼
►
They're like $1,400 or 1,300.
00:58:36
◼
►
They're in the same, well into the same price range
00:58:38
◼
►
as the Pro models with lower storage.
00:58:41
◼
►
You don't get this at all.
00:58:43
◼
►
You do get it on the lock screen, right?
00:58:46
◼
►
You'll get live activities on the lock screen,
00:58:48
◼
►
and you will get live activities
00:58:50
◼
►
when whatever is providing the live activity
00:58:55
◼
►
decides to send you an update,
00:58:57
◼
►
and the best example of that is one
00:58:59
◼
►
we're already familiar with is maps,
00:59:02
◼
►
turn-by-turn directions, which has worked like that
00:59:05
◼
►
for years already, where while you're using the phone
00:59:08
◼
►
and maps wants you to turn left on whatever street,
00:59:13
◼
►
it pops up at the top as a panel
00:59:17
◼
►
and tells you to do that, but you don't tell maps,
00:59:20
◼
►
"Hey, tell me what I'm doing again," and show that panel.
00:59:24
◼
►
It comes up on its own, and you also can't keep it there.
00:59:28
◼
►
It's fleeting.
00:59:30
◼
►
I don't know what the timeout is,
00:59:31
◼
►
but it's like five seconds or something like that,
00:59:33
◼
►
and no matter what you do, it's going to disappear.
00:59:37
◼
►
That's the experience every other iPhone is going to have,
00:59:41
◼
►
where you either go to the lock screen to see these things,
00:59:45
◼
►
or you wait for the thing to send you an update,
00:59:49
◼
►
whereas iPhone 14 Pro users have them up there
00:59:53
◼
►
in a dynamic island, and every time they want to expand
00:59:56
◼
►
or compact them, it's up to them.
01:00:00
◼
►
That is bananas to me, in a way.
01:00:02
◼
►
I know why Apple did it this way.
01:00:04
◼
►
I get it, but I can't remember in all my years
01:00:09
◼
►
of using the Mac, there's never been something like that
01:00:12
◼
►
on the Mac, where if you have a years-old Mac
01:00:17
◼
►
but you're using the newest version of macOS,
01:00:20
◼
►
it may not look as cool, but there's no major interaction
01:00:24
◼
►
feature that only the users of the latest MacBook Pro get.
01:00:30
◼
►
- I can think of one, but we all hated it.
01:00:31
◼
►
It was the Touch Bar.
01:00:33
◼
►
- Yeah, but even that wasn't,
01:00:34
◼
►
that was, but that was literally hardware.
01:00:39
◼
►
- That's true, that is true.
01:00:40
◼
►
I guess that Apple wants to think of this as hardware,
01:00:42
◼
►
so that's why my mind leaps to it.
01:00:43
◼
►
- Yeah, the Touch Bar's a good example.
01:00:45
◼
►
It's the closest they ever got with the Mac,
01:00:47
◼
►
but it was literal hardware, and I'll just put it in
01:00:50
◼
►
as an asterisk that I didn't hate it, I just didn't love it.
01:00:53
◼
►
I was like the weirdo who was totally ambivalent about it.
01:00:57
◼
►
- I was not.
01:00:58
◼
►
Most of the guests, most of my regular guests
01:01:00
◼
►
on this show are on your side.
01:01:03
◼
►
So I always say it in a small voice,
01:01:06
◼
►
'cause I feel so clearly on the wrong side
01:01:09
◼
►
of people whose opinion I trust
01:01:10
◼
►
that I suspect my ambivalence is wrong.
01:01:12
◼
►
- I know some people love it, but not me.
01:01:14
◼
►
Here's what I'll say, I think that's actually maybe fine.
01:01:16
◼
►
So the genius of this whole island is that it is
01:01:20
◼
►
an extension of live activities, which we have yet to see.
01:01:23
◼
►
- But also now playing, also Call Kit, also--
01:01:25
◼
►
- Yeah, but all that stuff is kind of rolling into it
01:01:28
◼
►
from my understanding.
01:01:30
◼
►
This is the stuff as it works now.
01:01:31
◼
►
There's some incoming call stuff, right?
01:01:34
◼
►
Call Kit can use it, but when live activities rolls out,
01:01:37
◼
►
those apps will get a kind of, like third-party apps
01:01:39
◼
►
will get a better version of incoming calls.
01:01:40
◼
►
So they're basically taking all these alerts and indicators
01:01:43
◼
►
that just sort of populate the top of your screen,
01:01:45
◼
►
they're combining them with live activities,
01:01:47
◼
►
and they're building this new alert system,
01:01:49
◼
►
which I think is very smart.
01:01:51
◼
►
I said this in the review, I love the name Dynamic Island
01:01:55
◼
►
because everyone wants to say it, and then I get to--
01:01:59
◼
►
- But then I get to just talk about the nature
01:02:02
◼
►
and philosophy of smartphone alerts.
01:02:05
◼
►
- And I get to talk about that with you, Joanna,
01:02:10
◼
►
and not so many other people, but now other people
01:02:12
◼
►
are like Dynamic Island, and I'm like,
01:02:13
◼
►
let me tell you about the nature and philosophy
01:02:15
◼
►
of smartphone alerts.
01:02:15
◼
►
So that's great for me, personally.
01:02:17
◼
►
But developers have to buy into it, they've gotta use it.
01:02:22
◼
►
And so if you build the live activity,
01:02:24
◼
►
my understanding of it is you basically just have
01:02:28
◼
►
to make one other view for the widget.
01:02:31
◼
►
The actual logic of it, the API usage,
01:02:34
◼
►
even most of the display is like the same.
01:02:38
◼
►
You just have to build this other view
01:02:39
◼
►
and then this other minimal view
01:02:41
◼
►
where you go down to just the icon.
01:02:43
◼
►
That's genius, right?
01:02:45
◼
►
It's fundamentally genius that Apple's like leveraging it up
01:02:49
◼
►
all the way to the island.
01:02:51
◼
►
So I think a year from now, when the island comes
01:02:53
◼
►
to the iPhone, regular iPhone 15, or even two years from now,
01:02:57
◼
►
the massive users buy those--
01:02:59
◼
►
- I don't know this, I'm not using any little birdie info.
01:03:03
◼
►
I'm only speculating on how important this is
01:03:06
◼
►
to the marketing behind the Pro.
01:03:09
◼
►
It won't be next year.
01:03:10
◼
►
- Sure, but by the time it does trickle down
01:03:13
◼
►
to the mainstream phone, like the developer
01:03:16
◼
►
and app ecosystem will be ready for the mass audience
01:03:21
◼
►
to get immediate value.
01:03:22
◼
►
Whereas right now, we're all kind of an early adopter stage
01:03:25
◼
►
of how is everyone gonna use it?
01:03:27
◼
►
Does this make any sense?
01:03:28
◼
►
Let's tweet about it.
01:03:29
◼
►
And I don't think that that makes sense
01:03:31
◼
►
for the mass audience.
01:03:32
◼
►
- Yeah, and the thing I'm wondering about is,
01:03:35
◼
►
so I think there's two reasons that Apple has made this
01:03:39
◼
►
an iPhone 14 Pro only feature.
01:03:42
◼
►
Because, and I think I mentioned this in my review,
01:03:46
◼
►
that it's not too hard to imagine how they could have turned
01:03:49
◼
►
the notch into a dynamic peninsula.
01:03:53
◼
►
And it wouldn't look as cool, but that they could do
01:03:56
◼
►
something with the interface to put these same things
01:03:59
◼
►
up there, and like when something's going on.
01:04:02
◼
►
Like remember when the notch first came out,
01:04:04
◼
►
and there were a lot of people, a lot of people,
01:04:07
◼
►
it was very, super controversial.
01:04:08
◼
►
Because the idea wasn't that you shouldn't make screens
01:04:12
◼
►
that go edge to edge, it's that okay,
01:04:13
◼
►
but if you've still gotta put the sensors up there,
01:04:16
◼
►
and you're using OLED, which has these super black blacks
01:04:20
◼
►
that really, except in really direct sunlight,
01:04:22
◼
►
disguise, could disguise the notch.
01:04:26
◼
►
That what Apple should have done is sort of draw
01:04:29
◼
►
a black bar across the top, and then draw the nice
01:04:33
◼
►
round corners, and just make it look like,
01:04:36
◼
►
and then you could put the status stuff,
01:04:38
◼
►
like your carrier name and your wifi signal,
01:04:41
◼
►
and the time, put it up there in the black area,
01:04:45
◼
►
but then the notch wouldn't look like a notch,
01:04:47
◼
►
it would just look like the phone has a little black
01:04:51
◼
►
forehead, and magically, this white text with the time
01:04:56
◼
►
and the carrier and the signal strength could go up there.
01:04:59
◼
►
Lot of people wish that Apple did that,
01:05:01
◼
►
there used to be like a little temporary,
01:05:03
◼
►
while people were really annoyed by the notch,
01:05:05
◼
►
there was a cottage industry of apps to make wallpapers,
01:05:08
◼
►
so that you could have a real wallpaper,
01:05:10
◼
►
but the top of the wallpaper would be black,
01:05:12
◼
►
so that you'd get that sort of faked.
01:05:15
◼
►
You could imagine that Apple could do that in iOS 16
01:05:19
◼
►
for the notched phones when dynamic island stuff
01:05:24
◼
►
is happening on the notched phones,
01:05:27
◼
►
and something would happen where the whole bar
01:05:29
◼
►
would go black, and they'd draw some stuff on the left
01:05:32
◼
►
and some stuff on the right, and you'd press and hold,
01:05:35
◼
►
and it wouldn't look as cool.
01:05:37
◼
►
And from a not talking about money perspective,
01:05:43
◼
►
Apple being Apple, they're much more of a,
01:05:48
◼
►
you either get the absolute best experience,
01:05:51
◼
►
or you don't get it at all.
01:05:52
◼
►
That's the Apple way of thinking,
01:05:54
◼
►
and that's why dynamic island is only on the actual phone
01:05:57
◼
►
that can do the dynamic island,
01:05:59
◼
►
and you don't get any of these features
01:06:01
◼
►
while you're not on the lock screen,
01:06:04
◼
►
using the phone on all the other iPhones.
01:06:08
◼
►
Now, talking about money, this is the thing,
01:06:12
◼
►
all the commercials I saw watching football last weekend
01:06:15
◼
►
for the iPhone 14 were about the dynamic island,
01:06:18
◼
►
and I know they're gonna have a whole,
01:06:19
◼
►
I already looked at their YouTube channel.
01:06:21
◼
►
There are other commercials they've already launched,
01:06:24
◼
►
and they're gonna sell other things,
01:06:25
◼
►
and they're gonna make commercials
01:06:26
◼
►
for the regular iPhone 14s.
01:06:28
◼
►
Dynamic island is so cool
01:06:30
◼
►
that they're making commercials about it,
01:06:32
◼
►
like 60-second spots just about dynamic island.
01:06:35
◼
►
They're using it, and my philosophy,
01:06:39
◼
►
this is what I kind of tailed off my review,
01:06:42
◼
►
is that it's not a coincidence
01:06:43
◼
►
that it's debuting the same year
01:06:46
◼
►
that they came out with the first non-pro phone
01:06:48
◼
►
with the giant 6.7 screen,
01:06:51
◼
►
'cause that used to be a thing that they would say,
01:06:54
◼
►
"Oh, you want a giant screen?"
01:06:56
◼
►
And everybody knows a lot of people
01:06:58
◼
►
really love giant screen phones,
01:07:01
◼
►
and they're like, "Oh, well, let me tell you
01:07:02
◼
►
"about this year's iPhone, whatever the number is, pro,
01:07:06
◼
►
"which starts at $1,100,
01:07:08
◼
►
"because that's what you need to spend
01:07:10
◼
►
"if you want it on iPhone."
01:07:12
◼
►
Okay, now they've made it for all the iPhone 14,
01:07:16
◼
►
and obviously next year, the iPhone 14 will still be here,
01:07:20
◼
►
and it'll be $100 less,
01:07:21
◼
►
and then I think two years from now,
01:07:23
◼
►
they'll still keep the iPhone 14 Plus,
01:07:26
◼
►
and you'll be able to get a 6.7-inch screen iPhone
01:07:29
◼
►
for 700 bucks.
01:07:30
◼
►
- Oh, that'll be fascinating.
01:07:31
◼
►
- I don't know, we'll see.
01:07:33
◼
►
Well, it'll definitely be here next year.
01:07:35
◼
►
Will they keep it for two years?
01:07:37
◼
►
I don't know, 'cause sometimes two years down the road,
01:07:39
◼
►
they kind of spitefully only keep the smallest one
01:07:43
◼
►
with the least amount of storage or something like that.
01:07:45
◼
►
I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it for two years,
01:07:47
◼
►
if they're just like, "For this number of years,
01:07:50
◼
►
"we're gonna hold the max screen size
01:07:53
◼
►
"as a pro-only feature, and starting in 2022,
01:07:57
◼
►
"okay, max size screen, you're free.
01:08:00
◼
►
"We're gonna call you Plus on the other phones,
01:08:02
◼
►
"but now you're free,
01:08:03
◼
►
"and we'll just let you propagate down the line,
01:08:05
◼
►
"and we'll make as many people who want that size happy
01:08:08
◼
►
"no matter what their budget is,
01:08:09
◼
►
"as long as their budget meets the admittedly
01:08:12
◼
►
"relatively high cost of even the iPhone SE, right,
01:08:16
◼
►
"compared to the market overall."
01:08:19
◼
►
- My most enduring theory of consumer electronics
01:08:21
◼
►
is that big, cheap screens drive the world.
01:08:24
◼
►
- Yes, definitely, right.
01:08:26
◼
►
- If you just find the biggest, cheapest screen,
01:08:29
◼
►
that's the thing most people wanna buy.
01:08:31
◼
►
- Yeah, I guarantee you, if you and I just wandered into
01:08:35
◼
►
with a Verge crew and shot a video
01:08:37
◼
►
and talked to somebody in a Best Buy,
01:08:39
◼
►
they'd be like, "Oh, yeah, yeah."
01:08:41
◼
►
Everybody comes in and they're just like,
01:08:42
◼
►
"Oh, give me the biggest, cheapest screen you got."
01:08:44
◼
►
- Oh, yeah, no, this is especially true in TVs,
01:08:46
◼
►
where it's like, do you want a 55-inch beautiful OLED,
01:08:49
◼
►
or do you want the world's shittiest 85-inch TV?
01:08:52
◼
►
And everyone's like, "The 85-inch TV."
01:08:54
◼
►
- Yeah, they're like, "That shittiest 85-inch TV costs what?"
01:08:58
◼
►
And they're like, "Oh, it's this."
01:08:59
◼
►
And they're like, "Oh, give me that."
01:09:01
◼
►
- Yeah, it's always like $500.
01:09:03
◼
►
It's like, "Okay, fine."
01:09:05
◼
►
And everyone buys that TV.
01:09:07
◼
►
- But I think that it's true of laptops.
01:09:09
◼
►
There's a reason that crap 15-inch Windows laptops
01:09:12
◼
►
still sell numbers, 'cause they're just big and cheap.
01:09:15
◼
►
And I think that has finally arrived
01:09:18
◼
►
to the iPhone in some way.
01:09:19
◼
►
I'm not saying it's crappy, but the iPhone 14 Plus
01:09:22
◼
►
is just, I think, a recognition that the iPhone 13 Mini
01:09:26
◼
►
was great and everyone loved it,
01:09:27
◼
►
but what consumers really want
01:09:29
◼
►
when they pull out their wallets is a big, cheap screen.
01:09:31
◼
►
- Yep, yeah.
01:09:33
◼
►
So I don't think it's a coincidence.
01:09:34
◼
►
So they let go of this one thing,
01:09:36
◼
►
which was a pro-only motivator,
01:09:39
◼
►
and now they've got this new thing, the Dynamic Island.
01:09:42
◼
►
And I don't think it's gonna be pro-only forever,
01:09:45
◼
►
but I think it's going to be three years, maybe, maybe four.
01:09:49
◼
►
- Yeah. - I don't know.
01:09:50
◼
►
It could be, it really,
01:09:51
◼
►
I could imagine it being four years.
01:09:52
◼
►
- But I think when stuff hits that audience,
01:09:55
◼
►
it has to be ready.
01:09:56
◼
►
And I, my, you know, I think our title was like,
01:09:59
◼
►
"It's the Early Adopter Island" or something.
01:10:00
◼
►
Like, there's a lot of stuff in these pros
01:10:03
◼
►
that are the beginnings of ideas,
01:10:06
◼
►
whereas the 14 is like so complete,
01:10:09
◼
►
it's just the 13 again.
01:10:10
◼
►
And so I think when you hit that part of the market,
01:10:13
◼
►
the ideas have to be finished,
01:10:15
◼
►
everyone has to know what the limit,
01:10:16
◼
►
like there's no room for error
01:10:19
◼
►
because no one's coming on your podcast
01:10:21
◼
►
to spend like two hours talking about
01:10:23
◼
►
sub-pixel and aliasing.
01:10:24
◼
►
Like, whereas I think in the pro market
01:10:27
◼
►
and with that audience,
01:10:28
◼
►
everyone keeps saying that the pre-orders
01:10:30
◼
►
for the pro are higher than,
01:10:32
◼
►
and it's like, yeah, they're pre, like,
01:10:33
◼
►
definitionally early adopters.
01:10:36
◼
►
- But let me interrupt you there.
01:10:37
◼
►
I don't buy that at all.
01:10:39
◼
►
Who the hell at this point knows anything
01:10:42
◼
►
about the pre-orders outside Apple and Tim Cook's office?
01:10:45
◼
►
I saw Ming-Chi Kuo's post about it,
01:10:48
◼
►
and I don't know, I don't know him,
01:10:50
◼
►
I've never met him, and I'm a fan.
01:10:52
◼
►
You know, he obviously gets a lot of stuff right.
01:10:54
◼
►
But his post about that was, I don't know,
01:10:57
◼
►
I mean, he was high as a kite or something
01:10:59
◼
►
'cause he even put stuff in that was nonsense.
01:11:02
◼
►
He said, like, in his checks,
01:11:04
◼
►
that the 14+ was going to be in wide availability
01:11:07
◼
►
on launch day.
01:11:08
◼
►
Apple told us at the keynote
01:11:10
◼
►
it's not available till October 7th.
01:11:13
◼
►
What the hell is he talking about?
01:11:15
◼
►
We didn't even get them to review
01:11:16
◼
►
because it's coming out so late, so much later.
01:11:19
◼
►
Well, again, so late, October 7th is not that late.
01:11:23
◼
►
But I'm saying, but you know and I know
01:11:25
◼
►
that Apple does not seed review unit products more than,
01:11:29
◼
►
almost never more than a week in advance of availability.
01:11:33
◼
►
- And in this case, less than a week.
01:11:35
◼
►
- And sometimes two weeks.
01:11:37
◼
►
Not that I know anything about that,
01:11:40
◼
►
but sometimes two weeks.
01:11:43
◼
►
But in my experience, never more than two weeks,
01:11:46
◼
►
except the one and only exception to that,
01:11:48
◼
►
which I guess we can now talk about,
01:11:50
◼
►
would be the original AirPods.
01:11:53
◼
►
- Yeah. - Way back in like 2016.
01:11:55
◼
►
- And they were like beta.
01:11:56
◼
►
- Yeah, and they told us these are actually
01:12:00
◼
►
last stage prototypes.
01:12:02
◼
►
I guess prototypes may be the wrong word, pre-production.
01:12:05
◼
►
These are last stage pre-production units.
01:12:09
◼
►
And then when the actual AirPods shipped
01:12:11
◼
►
like a month or six weeks later,
01:12:13
◼
►
that was like the first and ever only review unit product
01:12:16
◼
►
where they immediately called me and said,
01:12:19
◼
►
"We would like you to send those back today.
01:12:21
◼
►
"And we've got a box, we've got a FedEx guy
01:12:23
◼
►
"coming to your house now to pick them up."
01:12:25
◼
►
- Yeah, and it was a weird exception.
01:12:28
◼
►
So the plus, Ming-Chi Kuo saying that the plus
01:12:32
◼
►
was gonna be in wide availability on launch day,
01:12:34
◼
►
which is today, the day you and I are talking,
01:12:37
◼
►
is I don't know what the hell he's talking about.
01:12:39
◼
►
But meanwhile, because Ming-Chi Kuo said it,
01:12:42
◼
►
it's all over the world that the iPhone 14 regulars
01:12:48
◼
►
are not in demand and the 14 Pro Max is in high demand
01:12:52
◼
►
and 14 Pro is in medium demand.
01:12:53
◼
►
And you look at his methodology, it's crazy.
01:12:56
◼
►
His sources are clearly all in the supply chain
01:13:00
◼
►
and he gets great information out of them.
01:13:02
◼
►
I mean, nobody else is quite like Ming-Chi Kuo
01:13:05
◼
►
in terms of information from the supply chain.
01:13:07
◼
►
But in terms of knowing the launch day pre-orders,
01:13:10
◼
►
whatever Apple is going to do to adjust
01:13:13
◼
►
their supply chain orders hasn't happened yet.
01:13:17
◼
►
So I think that's nonsense.
01:13:18
◼
►
I don't think anybody outside Tim Cook's office
01:13:21
◼
►
knows anything about which phones have been ordered
01:13:24
◼
►
how many times.
01:13:25
◼
►
- By that quote also, he reached, he was like,
01:13:28
◼
►
he arrived at a conclusion that makes no sense to me.
01:13:30
◼
►
He was like, this product segmentation strategy is a fail.
01:13:33
◼
►
It's like, I have no idea.
01:13:34
◼
►
- Well, he definitely has no idea.
01:13:36
◼
►
- What are you doing?
01:13:37
◼
►
But all I meant was the people citing that to me
01:13:41
◼
►
is evidence that my big cheap screens theory is wrong.
01:13:44
◼
►
It's like, no, no, no.
01:13:44
◼
►
The early adopters are always gonna find it from all.
01:13:47
◼
►
Even if you believe this or don't believe it,
01:13:50
◼
►
nothing about pre-order data tells you what is gonna happen.
01:13:54
◼
►
It's definitionally early adopters.
01:13:56
◼
►
- Who's buying a phone to actually go and pick up
01:14:00
◼
►
on Friday the 16th so that they can have it
01:14:04
◼
►
in the morning on the first day that it's available?
01:14:09
◼
►
Who back 10 years ago was lined up outside
01:14:14
◼
►
their local Apple store on Friday morning
01:14:18
◼
►
at six in the morning, three hours before the store opened
01:14:21
◼
►
so that they could get one?
01:14:22
◼
►
- It's early adopters, and what are they gonna buy?
01:14:25
◼
►
People like that aren't gonna buy a mid-range phone.
01:14:29
◼
►
And then vice versa, who's going to be buying
01:14:33
◼
►
a brand new iPhone 14 something next August?
01:14:41
◼
►
- It's the people who don't care.
01:14:42
◼
►
And you could tell them.
01:14:43
◼
►
You could say, hey, Apple's probably coming out
01:14:45
◼
►
with new phones in two weeks, and they'd be like,
01:14:47
◼
►
yeah, I don't need them.
01:14:48
◼
►
I don't care.
01:14:50
◼
►
And you know what they're gonna do?
01:14:51
◼
►
They're gonna walk in the store,
01:14:52
◼
►
and they're gonna say, yeah, I love a big phone.
01:14:54
◼
►
And they're like, well, you can get the Pro Max,
01:14:56
◼
►
and it's 1100, or the regular Pro Plus, or 14 Plus,
01:15:01
◼
►
and it's 900, and they'll be like, 900?
01:15:05
◼
►
Yeah, that's the one I want.
01:15:06
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, we'll see.
01:15:09
◼
►
Like I said, my theory is on a long enough timeline,
01:15:13
◼
►
the big, cheap screen always wins, right?
01:15:14
◼
►
And it's just sort of true, and the screens
01:15:18
◼
►
keep getting bigger and cheaper, so everyone's happy.
01:15:20
◼
►
- I don't think, and I was, I'm not always right.
01:15:23
◼
►
I was, my personal taste in relatively smaller phones,
01:15:27
◼
►
and again, I never actually bought a Mini,
01:15:30
◼
►
although I think I might have two years ago
01:15:32
◼
►
if I were a little, if I had been younger,
01:15:34
◼
►
and my eyes were better.
01:15:35
◼
►
But I did buy, that was the year I did buy,
01:15:37
◼
►
I didn't buy the Pro.
01:15:38
◼
►
I bought the regular iPhone 12,
01:15:40
◼
►
because I just thought the 12 Pro,
01:15:42
◼
►
I wasn't impressed by the camera,
01:15:44
◼
►
and thought in the fall of 2020,
01:15:47
◼
►
I'm not going anywhere for a while.
01:15:48
◼
►
We're locked, this COVID thing is clearly here all winter.
01:15:51
◼
►
What do I need a camera for?
01:15:52
◼
►
I'll buy the one that's lighter,
01:15:54
◼
►
and that I think feels better in my hand.
01:15:56
◼
►
I was, thought, ah, maybe I should just get the Mini,
01:15:59
◼
►
but I really, it's like, ah, I'm almost 50.
01:16:03
◼
►
I'm gonna, I need the bigger screen.
01:16:05
◼
►
But to me, the 6.1 in size is a little too big.
01:16:09
◼
►
But I get it.
01:16:11
◼
►
My taste in smaller phones had me off the trail
01:16:16
◼
►
of the Android side racing ahead to truly,
01:16:20
◼
►
what we used to call 'em, phablets, right?
01:16:23
◼
►
Yeah, I mean, I'm a Macs phone person,
01:16:25
◼
►
and this thing's a phablet.
01:16:28
◼
►
- It's this close to being seven inches.
01:16:30
◼
►
- Yeah, I was off, I was wrong about that, clearly.
01:16:33
◼
►
And it's obvious in hindsight.
01:16:34
◼
►
I remember the first time,
01:16:35
◼
►
I had to do something in a Verizon store,
01:16:37
◼
►
easily 10 years ago.
01:16:39
◼
►
And it was before Apple had really big phones,
01:16:44
◼
►
the plus ones, right?
01:16:45
◼
►
So, and it came out in the Samsung trial,
01:16:48
◼
►
like, wasn't it a Phil Schiller email
01:16:50
◼
►
that people want big screen phones that we don't make,
01:16:54
◼
►
something like that, you know?
01:16:55
◼
►
- Yep, and Tim Cook was like, just do it, stop it.
01:16:58
◼
►
- And the problem is, it's the,
01:17:01
◼
►
and if you look at that email compared to when Apple
01:17:04
◼
►
started shipping the bigger plus size phones,
01:17:08
◼
►
that's all the proof you need
01:17:09
◼
►
of how long it takes Apple to go from,
01:17:12
◼
►
okay, we'll make this phone to it's September, here it is.
01:17:15
◼
►
It's over two years.
01:17:16
◼
►
They don't all, anytime you see a story that, you know,
01:17:19
◼
►
like that Apple's making a major change
01:17:21
◼
►
to next year's iPhone, it's complete nonsense.
01:17:25
◼
►
It just can't work that way.
01:17:27
◼
►
But I remember being in a Verizon store,
01:17:29
◼
►
something to do with my SIM card, I don't know.
01:17:31
◼
►
I was, I had something wrong with my account.
01:17:33
◼
►
And I heard a customer shopping for an Android phone,
01:17:38
◼
►
and her boyfriend was trying to talk her into one
01:17:43
◼
►
that had a pen for something,
01:17:45
◼
►
and she knew what she wanted.
01:17:48
◼
►
She wanted, and she was a very small Asian woman,
01:17:51
◼
►
and she had a tiny purse.
01:17:53
◼
►
I remember looking at her purse thing,
01:17:54
◼
►
how are you even gonna put that phone?
01:17:55
◼
►
She went right to the one that was the biggest.
01:17:57
◼
►
She was like, no, no, I want the,
01:17:58
◼
►
I forget what model number it was.
01:18:00
◼
►
But it was the Samsung something with the biggest screen.
01:18:04
◼
►
And she's, and he was like, are you sure, that's huge?
01:18:06
◼
►
And he was like trying to talk her out of it.
01:18:08
◼
►
And she was like, nope, and sold,
01:18:10
◼
►
here, take my credit card.
01:18:13
◼
►
Meanwhile, she's got the phone and is out of the store,
01:18:16
◼
►
and they're still dicking around
01:18:17
◼
►
with my SIM card problem, of course.
01:18:21
◼
►
But I just remember, and I just remember,
01:18:23
◼
►
that was the moment, I remember the moment,
01:18:24
◼
►
and I thought, you know what, I'm wrong about these phones.
01:18:28
◼
►
People, all sorts of people want them,
01:18:30
◼
►
including very small, short people
01:18:33
◼
►
who carry very small purses.
01:18:36
◼
►
- They're gonna squeeze it into the purse and make it work.
01:18:39
◼
►
- I bought my mama a Mac size phone.
01:18:40
◼
►
She is herself a small Asian woman.
01:18:42
◼
►
She loves it.
01:18:43
◼
►
Can't get enough.
01:18:44
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
01:18:45
◼
►
So I think the 14 Plus is gonna sell like gangbusters,
01:18:47
◼
►
and I think Apple knows it.
01:18:48
◼
►
There's certain things that they never know.
01:18:51
◼
►
I've talked to people over the years,
01:18:52
◼
►
like Apple says, people think we know everything
01:18:54
◼
►
and how many of each thing is gonna be sold,
01:18:57
◼
►
and we're always surprised every year.
01:18:59
◼
►
We're surprised by which colors are popular.
01:19:01
◼
►
We're surprised by this and that.
01:19:04
◼
►
But I think the one thing they know for sure
01:19:05
◼
►
is the 14 Plus is gonna sell like gangbusters.
01:19:08
◼
►
- Yeah, I think that's very odd.
01:19:11
◼
►
- But anyway, back to the dynamic island.
01:19:13
◼
►
Here's the thing.
01:19:14
◼
►
No, but in terms of how they could have brought
01:19:16
◼
►
some of the features to the other phones.
01:19:18
◼
►
You mentioned in your review,
01:19:20
◼
►
there are things that we've known for years.
01:19:22
◼
►
They've been in iOS for years.
01:19:24
◼
►
So like if you've got turn-by-turn directions
01:19:27
◼
►
or anything location tracking,
01:19:28
◼
►
you get a blue pill in the top left corner, right?
01:19:32
◼
►
If you have a phone call going on, you get a green pill.
01:19:36
◼
►
And if you tap the pill,
01:19:37
◼
►
you jump to the app that's responsible for it, right?
01:19:40
◼
►
So now that we have these things
01:19:43
◼
►
and the dynamic island is out,
01:19:45
◼
►
it's very clear that they could make it
01:19:48
◼
►
so that you could long press the pill
01:19:50
◼
►
and get the little widget thing
01:19:53
◼
►
to appear right underneath it without the dynamic island.
01:19:56
◼
►
This doesn't even...
01:19:57
◼
►
The fact that they're not doing that
01:20:00
◼
►
and they're not going to do that is,
01:20:03
◼
►
let's call it what it is.
01:20:04
◼
►
It's a software lock on the feature.
01:20:07
◼
►
- Oh yeah, for sure.
01:20:08
◼
►
By the way, do you think the long press to open the widget
01:20:11
◼
►
and the tap to open the app is as backwards as I do?
01:20:13
◼
►
- It did not.
01:20:14
◼
►
This is one of my...
01:20:15
◼
►
I have this in my notes to talk about on the podcast.
01:20:18
◼
►
I'm glad you brought it up
01:20:19
◼
►
so that I can't ignore my notes and forget it.
01:20:23
◼
►
That did not occur to me at all,
01:20:25
◼
►
but I was reading your review today
01:20:27
◼
►
because when I'm late with my reviews,
01:20:29
◼
►
I scrupulously avoid reading other people's reviews,
01:20:33
◼
►
both because I need to finish mine
01:20:34
◼
►
and it just seems like the right thing to do.
01:20:37
◼
►
- Yeah, and then when you're done, when you publish,
01:20:39
◼
►
you read everyone else's furiously.
01:20:40
◼
►
- Right, and I read yours, and that was one of the things
01:20:44
◼
►
I was like, oh, I'm so glad he's on my podcast today
01:20:46
◼
►
because that is a really interesting idea, right?
01:20:51
◼
►
So your idea is...
01:20:54
◼
►
The way it works right now is that you tap a thing
01:20:58
◼
►
in the dynamic island and it jumps you to that app.
01:21:00
◼
►
So your podcast player's playing
01:21:03
◼
►
and you've got the little thing up there,
01:21:04
◼
►
the live waveforms, you tap it and you jump to Overcast
01:21:08
◼
►
or you jump to Apple Podcasts or you jump to Spotify,
01:21:11
◼
►
and if you long press, you get the player.
01:21:13
◼
►
You're saying that should be reversed.
01:21:16
◼
►
- I think it should absolutely be reversed.
01:21:17
◼
►
If the idea of the island is that it's a hardware display
01:21:22
◼
►
that floats over the top of iOS,
01:21:25
◼
►
then you should use it more.
01:21:27
◼
►
To me, a long press on a smartphone touchscreen
01:21:30
◼
►
is effectively a right click,
01:21:33
◼
►
and it's actually an even less discoverable right click.
01:21:36
◼
►
So all the ads are like, the thing is moving.
01:21:42
◼
►
Like, the ads are great, right?
01:21:43
◼
►
But it's always opening and closing.
01:21:44
◼
►
People are doing stuff with it, and the point of it is not,
01:21:47
◼
►
oh, this is an app switcher with an animation on it.
01:21:51
◼
►
The point of it is you're supposed to use it,
01:21:54
◼
►
and the thing that drove me nuts was like,
01:21:55
◼
►
oh, I wanna use it.
01:21:56
◼
►
I just wanna open the thing and change the track
01:21:58
◼
►
or I wanna see what the next name of the street is
01:22:01
◼
►
instead of just 900 feet or whatever it is.
01:22:04
◼
►
I wanna stop this timer.
01:22:05
◼
►
And you have to click and hold.
01:22:08
◼
►
And it's just like, oh, this is backwards.
01:22:10
◼
►
Actually, what I wanna do is use the island,
01:22:13
◼
►
and if I wanna open the app,
01:22:15
◼
►
I will tell this phone that I wanna open the app in some way.
01:22:18
◼
►
- I'm not 100% convinced,
01:22:22
◼
►
but I'm over 50% convinced that you're right.
01:22:27
◼
►
- It should at least be a toggle.
01:22:28
◼
►
They should at least let you choose.
01:22:31
◼
►
Yeah, I don't know.
01:22:34
◼
►
I almost think, I'm like at least 55% convinced
01:22:38
◼
►
that they shouldn't even be a toggle,
01:22:39
◼
►
that you're just right, that tapping,
01:22:41
◼
►
if the app support has something that supports,
01:22:45
◼
►
I think everything that's in there does.
01:22:47
◼
►
If it makes any sense to do it,
01:22:49
◼
►
then it should just show the expanded view on a tap.
01:22:53
◼
►
- Right, and if there's no expanded view,
01:22:56
◼
►
like fine, kick me the app.
01:22:57
◼
►
I will understand.
01:22:58
◼
►
- Right, and your analogy to a right-click
01:23:00
◼
►
in Mac or Windows is exactly right.
01:23:03
◼
►
And my philosophy, and I actually think
01:23:06
◼
►
everybody's Windows, the Windows guidelines,
01:23:08
◼
►
the Mac guidelines, I think all recommend this.
01:23:11
◼
►
And over the years, of course,
01:23:14
◼
►
everybody can find examples of even software
01:23:17
◼
►
from Apple and Microsoft that disobeys it.
01:23:19
◼
►
But the rule's always been that
01:23:23
◼
►
nothing should be in the right-click menu
01:23:25
◼
►
that you can only get in the right-click menu.
01:23:27
◼
►
There should be a way to do everything on the system
01:23:32
◼
►
with just regular clicks by moving the mouse
01:23:36
◼
►
somewhere on the screen to a visible element,
01:23:39
◼
►
be it a menu or an icon or something,
01:23:42
◼
►
and a regular click, and maybe it takes three clicks, right,
01:23:46
◼
►
to go up to the menu and pull down the menu
01:23:48
◼
►
and down to a thing.
01:23:50
◼
►
You should never have to do a right-click
01:23:52
◼
►
because that's not discoverable,
01:23:54
◼
►
because lots of people never right-click anything.
01:23:57
◼
►
And I do think it's a direct analogy to long pressing.
01:24:01
◼
►
And for certain mice, obviously,
01:24:04
◼
►
Apple mice don't have multiple buttons,
01:24:05
◼
►
but at least with traditional mice,
01:24:08
◼
►
the right-click button is a button
01:24:11
◼
►
that a normal person can see, right,
01:24:14
◼
►
and think, I don't know, what's that button do?
01:24:16
◼
►
And then they kinda can figure it out.
01:24:18
◼
►
Long press is even less discoverable than right-clicking
01:24:22
◼
►
because it's, I'm not sure people know they can do it.
01:24:27
◼
►
And I do, I get it, right?
01:24:29
◼
►
And it's like, so you should be able to do it with a tap.
01:24:32
◼
►
Right, so there is no way to just open the expanded view
01:24:36
◼
►
with just a tap, but according to my theory
01:24:40
◼
►
that like on a mouse system,
01:24:41
◼
►
you should be able to do everything with a regular click.
01:24:44
◼
►
You should be able to do everything with regular taps,
01:24:46
◼
►
even if it requires multiple taps.
01:24:48
◼
►
So let's say you actually want to,
01:24:52
◼
►
you don't just want to open the little scoreboard thing
01:24:57
◼
►
for the live activity you're watching.
01:24:59
◼
►
You actually wanna switch to the ESPN app.
01:25:02
◼
►
Well, you tap it once to show the widget in expanded view,
01:25:07
◼
►
and then you'd tap again to go to the app, right?
01:25:11
◼
►
Like it would be on,
01:25:12
◼
►
like there'd be like an ESPN logo in the widget,
01:25:14
◼
►
and you'd tap that to go to the app.
01:25:16
◼
►
So you could still go to the app.
01:25:18
◼
►
You would just have to tap and then tap,
01:25:20
◼
►
which isn't that different than the long tap, right?
01:25:24
◼
►
I think you're right, and if you just think like,
01:25:27
◼
►
I just wanna open the expanded view, just tap it.
01:25:30
◼
►
Tap it to expand it.
01:25:32
◼
►
- Especially because Apple is inundating everybody
01:25:35
◼
►
with marketing showing the thing happening all the time.
01:25:37
◼
►
So it's like they're training users to expect a behavior.
01:25:42
◼
►
- That they may not discover even.
01:25:45
◼
►
- Right, and I obviously have like wandered around asking,
01:25:48
◼
►
and the general vibe is we want it to be as simple
01:25:52
◼
►
as possible, and the simplest thing to do is kick you
01:25:54
◼
►
to the app, and it's like, actually I still think
01:25:57
◼
►
that's backwards.
01:25:58
◼
►
- Yeah, I do too, 'cause I actually think the simplest thing
01:26:01
◼
►
that's possible is to open the mini app that's up there,
01:26:04
◼
►
right, 'cause that's what these things are.
01:26:06
◼
►
They're little mini apps.
01:26:07
◼
►
I compared them in my review to the iTunes mini player,
01:26:12
◼
►
and I loved the iTunes.
01:26:15
◼
►
I still call it iTunes, but the music app mini player,
01:26:20
◼
►
but over the years when I've been playing music on my Mac,
01:26:24
◼
►
my controlling it has gone through the mini player
01:26:27
◼
►
way more than iTunes, because you just leave
01:26:30
◼
►
the mini player up, and it's wonderfully simple.
01:26:33
◼
►
Now, and it forces the designer or designers of the app
01:26:38
◼
►
to reduce the app to its purest core.
01:26:42
◼
►
Fast forward, reverse, play, pause, next,
01:26:47
◼
►
and what's playing right now.
01:26:50
◼
►
That's the app.
01:26:52
◼
►
That's the core, and yes, we want all these other features.
01:26:55
◼
►
We want playlist management, and we want radio stations,
01:26:58
◼
►
and we want subscription info, and go to your account info,
01:27:01
◼
►
and buy new music, and all those other stuff,
01:27:04
◼
►
but the core of the app is fast forward, reverse,
01:27:08
◼
►
play, pause, next, and what's playing right now,
01:27:11
◼
►
and that's the mini player,
01:27:12
◼
►
and that's what these views do to all these apps.
01:27:15
◼
►
So to me, that's the simplest thing possible.
01:27:17
◼
►
Like, I've hailed a Lyft, and I'm waiting for it to show.
01:27:21
◼
►
This is one of my, I can't wait for this to be in NowPlane,
01:27:24
◼
►
'cause it, or a dynamic island,
01:27:27
◼
►
'cause this is me all the time.
01:27:29
◼
►
I hail an Uber or a Lyft, and it says,
01:27:34
◼
►
of course they always lie, and they say,
01:27:36
◼
►
"Oh, we could get you one, we'll get you one
01:27:38
◼
►
"in four minutes," and I'm like, "Oh, that's great,"
01:27:41
◼
►
but that's actually so quick,
01:27:43
◼
►
I was actually gonna go to the bathroom,
01:27:44
◼
►
I don't have my shoes on yet, well, I'll hail it,
01:27:46
◼
►
and then it spins and spins, and then of course,
01:27:48
◼
►
they're like, "Oh, it'll be nine minutes."
01:27:53
◼
►
Well, what am I gonna do?
01:27:54
◼
►
Now, I've already gone to the bathroom,
01:27:56
◼
►
I put my shoes on already, 'cause I thought,
01:27:59
◼
►
of course, got suckered again, Lucy and the football,
01:28:01
◼
►
thinking that the car was gonna be here
01:28:03
◼
►
in a couple minutes.
01:28:05
◼
►
Well, I'm gonna dick around on my phone, of course, right?
01:28:08
◼
►
And this is what I do, and then I'm on Twitter,
01:28:10
◼
►
and then all of a sudden, I'm like, wait,
01:28:11
◼
►
did I just spend 20 minutes on Twitter?
01:28:13
◼
►
Is the car outside?
01:28:14
◼
►
Did it already leave?
01:28:16
◼
►
I love the idea that in the dynamic island,
01:28:18
◼
►
I'll have a live update, and every time I'm waiting for it,
01:28:21
◼
►
I can see it, but I don't wanna jump to the app
01:28:25
◼
►
if I want more information, like to see what kind of car
01:28:27
◼
►
is it, like that's, just let me tap it, right?
01:28:30
◼
►
Just let me tap it and see, okay,
01:28:32
◼
►
it's gonna be a red Tesla.
01:28:33
◼
►
- Yeah, and here's the last four of the lights.
01:28:35
◼
►
- Yeah, here's the last four of the lights.
01:28:36
◼
►
- Which is the most important information
01:28:37
◼
►
of the whole app.
01:28:38
◼
►
- Right, just let me tap it,
01:28:39
◼
►
and I don't want to, the last thing I wanna do
01:28:41
◼
►
is go to Uber's giant app with ads in it and all this crap.
01:28:45
◼
►
Just let me see their mini player.
01:28:48
◼
►
- Why was my first question,
01:28:50
◼
►
will Uber put ads in the dynamic island?
01:28:53
◼
►
Like, there's a whole app review,
01:28:55
◼
►
we're already like an hour and a half into it,
01:28:57
◼
►
there's another hour and a half of an app review
01:28:59
◼
►
for the dynamic island that is staring at us in the face.
01:29:02
◼
►
Like, this is why I'm like at wait and see.
01:29:05
◼
►
Is Uber gonna put the Uber Eats logo
01:29:08
◼
►
in their dynamic island widget
01:29:10
◼
►
and try to get you to buy the Uber subscription
01:29:13
◼
►
in the dynamic island?
01:29:13
◼
►
Like, I kinda wanna know what that relationship
01:29:17
◼
►
between Apple and its developers and the,
01:29:20
◼
►
like, when you say, like, when you reduce the app
01:29:23
◼
►
to its core essence,
01:29:25
◼
►
is the Instagram dynamic island widget
01:29:28
◼
►
just gonna show you an ad for, like, Instagram shirts?
01:29:32
◼
►
Like, I don't know.
01:29:33
◼
►
- No, they're gonna make you watch a reel.
01:29:36
◼
►
- Yeah, they're definitely gonna make you watch a reel
01:29:38
◼
►
in the island.
01:29:39
◼
►
- Like, I'm very curious to see how this plays out
01:29:41
◼
►
with developers, 'cause that,
01:29:42
◼
►
the concepts they showed from Lyft and Flighty
01:29:45
◼
►
are like, genius.
01:29:47
◼
►
I'm in the airport, I just need to know the gate changed,
01:29:50
◼
►
just tell me the gate changed,
01:29:51
◼
►
and like, I'll move on,
01:29:53
◼
►
and I don't need to open the American Airlines app,
01:29:56
◼
►
which is one of, like,
01:29:56
◼
►
Apple should just kick that app out of the store.
01:29:58
◼
►
If anyone from Apple's listening to me,
01:29:59
◼
►
just kick, just boot American Airlines out,
01:30:02
◼
►
make 'em start over.
01:30:04
◼
►
So, you get this whole world
01:30:05
◼
►
where there's all this sort of ambient information,
01:30:09
◼
►
and like, you have to respect what it is
01:30:11
◼
►
and not use it as a way to shove your app into the island.
01:30:15
◼
►
And I think there's a,
01:30:17
◼
►
this is why we might really adopt her.
01:30:19
◼
►
It's like, we're gonna have to learn altogether
01:30:21
◼
►
what works and what doesn't.
01:30:22
◼
►
- So, I can be pretty cynical.
01:30:25
◼
►
I can certainly be mean and sarcastic,
01:30:27
◼
►
but I have to admit that there's a,
01:30:31
◼
►
an optimist in me and excited by the opportunity designer
01:30:36
◼
►
mindset in me that never,
01:30:40
◼
►
you know, like, the way that,
01:30:42
◼
►
the best example of all time is email,
01:30:45
◼
►
and the way that the original designers of internet email
01:30:49
◼
►
made it so simple and so, oh, you just,
01:30:52
◼
►
it's just a text file that you put,
01:30:54
◼
►
send over this port to a server,
01:30:57
◼
►
and you just follow this format
01:30:59
◼
►
where you just put a to and from and all this stuff,
01:31:02
◼
►
and it goes out, and guess what?
01:31:05
◼
►
It's totally ripe for incredible abuse,
01:31:09
◼
►
and we're all getting hundreds of spam messages a day still,
01:31:14
◼
►
to this day, and it'll never stop
01:31:16
◼
►
because the people who designed email never really thought,
01:31:19
◼
►
hey, wait, how could this be abused?
01:31:23
◼
►
It did not occur to me to think, wait,
01:31:25
◼
►
what are the things somebody could abuse
01:31:27
◼
►
the dynamic island for?
01:31:28
◼
►
- So did you ask Apple, will they be, are ads allowed?
01:31:32
◼
►
Did you ask?
01:31:33
◼
►
- Well, as you may know,
01:31:34
◼
►
The Verge has a very strict background policy,
01:31:36
◼
►
so I can't, unless they're gonna be on the record.
01:31:38
◼
►
- You can't say what they said, and if they didn't--
01:31:42
◼
►
Well, so you can say whether you asked, though.
01:31:44
◼
►
- I did ask, I 100% asked, and I think,
01:31:48
◼
►
I would characterize the response as,
01:31:51
◼
►
oh boy, we're gonna have to wait and see,
01:31:53
◼
►
like, right, like, they have app review,
01:31:55
◼
►
they have a mechanism, they have some guidelines,
01:31:59
◼
►
but no one has submitted apps yet.
01:32:01
◼
►
Like, I don't know, like, is Spotify gonna put,
01:32:05
◼
►
like, try to break the rules and get you to sign up
01:32:08
◼
►
on the web in their island widget?
01:32:10
◼
►
Like, we're just gonna have to find out,
01:32:12
◼
►
'cause developers routinely push against rules,
01:32:15
◼
►
Apple pushes back, and this is a way,
01:32:17
◼
►
like, my joke about American Airlines is,
01:32:19
◼
►
they're gonna, are they gonna stick the offer
01:32:21
◼
►
for the American Airlines credit card in the island widget?
01:32:24
◼
►
Like, maybe.
01:32:25
◼
►
- Right, well, think about Spotify, right?
01:32:26
◼
►
So Spotify, you're playing Spotify,
01:32:29
◼
►
and now you're doing your stuff.
01:32:32
◼
►
You're reading email, you're browsing the web,
01:32:34
◼
►
you're doing messages, and the Spotify thing
01:32:38
◼
►
is up there in the dynamic island, and there's an icon,
01:32:42
◼
►
so if they can dynamically change that icon,
01:32:45
◼
►
they could change it to, like, a Chipotle icon, right?
01:32:49
◼
►
(both laughing)
01:32:50
◼
►
- Right, I mean, I'm assuming that app review
01:32:53
◼
►
will catch a bunch of this stuff, I'm assuming--
01:32:57
◼
►
- Like, they could just sell the icon, right?
01:32:59
◼
►
- They could, this is what I'm saying.
01:33:02
◼
►
So, we've, you know, and I'm not saying
01:33:04
◼
►
that all these companies are very nefarious,
01:33:05
◼
►
I'm just saying that suddenly you have this ability
01:33:08
◼
►
to ambiently push information at people,
01:33:11
◼
►
and historically in the world,
01:33:13
◼
►
that ability has been used for advertising.
01:33:17
◼
►
- You're just listening to music,
01:33:19
◼
►
but you've got a Wendy's logo up.
01:33:22
◼
►
- Oh, no, but think about it this way,
01:33:23
◼
►
you've got, so there's some prioritization happening
01:33:27
◼
►
with these apps, you've only got two slots, right?
01:33:28
◼
►
There's the big one, and then if you got two at once,
01:33:31
◼
►
it turns into a little circle,
01:33:33
◼
►
which is like the ultra-minimal view.
01:33:34
◼
►
- Yeah, there's three sizes,
01:33:36
◼
►
one is if it's the one and only thing,
01:33:38
◼
►
then there's two sizes if there's two,
01:33:42
◼
►
and then there's the expanded view, so four total sizes.
01:33:47
◼
►
- Yeah, and so you can just see, like,
01:33:49
◼
►
okay, there's an app that wants the island,
01:33:51
◼
►
it's been deprioritized, and the internal priority ranking
01:33:55
◼
►
of the apps is fascinating to me, right?
01:33:58
◼
►
So as I've been testing it,
01:34:00
◼
►
phone calls have the first priority,
01:34:02
◼
►
if you have an active call, they always get the big slot.
01:34:04
◼
►
The timer loses to everything all the time.
01:34:07
◼
►
- You can just, if you start a timer,
01:34:09
◼
►
it'll just get pushed off the screen
01:34:10
◼
►
if you start other things.
01:34:11
◼
►
Turn by turn, I think, has priority too.
01:34:13
◼
►
Like, it's just interesting to figure out
01:34:16
◼
►
how Apple is ranking all these different uses of the island.
01:34:19
◼
►
And as more live activities roll out, who knows, right?
01:34:22
◼
►
Like, does a sports score supersede a phone call?
01:34:27
◼
►
- I don't know.
01:34:28
◼
►
But just stipulating that I do not know
01:34:30
◼
►
the answer to the ranking, you can just see a world
01:34:33
◼
►
where, like, you have the Chipotle app on your phone,
01:34:37
◼
►
and you haven't, like, force quit it.
01:34:39
◼
►
So it's just, like, hanging out in the back,
01:34:41
◼
►
and you, like, walk by a Chipotle,
01:34:44
◼
►
and it pops up the island widget that's like,
01:34:46
◼
►
"Do you want a burrito?"
01:34:50
◼
►
I'm assuming that that is not possible.
01:34:53
◼
►
I have no idea if it is or not.
01:34:55
◼
►
- The other thing that kinda stinks to me
01:34:57
◼
►
about the timer always getting secondary thing
01:34:59
◼
►
is it just shows the timer icon.
01:35:01
◼
►
It doesn't show the time.
01:35:03
◼
►
- Yeah, it just shows you something.
01:35:05
◼
►
- I don't understand why the timer doesn't switch
01:35:08
◼
►
to showing you, like, if you've got five minutes,
01:35:11
◼
►
30 seconds left, why doesn't it say 5.30?
01:35:13
◼
►
And even if they don't wanna update every second,
01:35:15
◼
►
even if it just updated every 10 seconds or something,
01:35:18
◼
►
that would be better than just showing the timer icon.
01:35:20
◼
►
- Yeah, or it's a circle.
01:35:21
◼
►
Just have it count down and--
01:35:23
◼
►
- Yeah, or, yeah, like show analog-style clock hands
01:35:26
◼
►
or something.
01:35:27
◼
►
- Yeah, again, this is what I mean.
01:35:29
◼
►
Like, I just think we're, a year from now,
01:35:32
◼
►
we will actually know.
01:35:34
◼
►
And this is where my,
01:35:35
◼
►
maybe I'm just even more cynical than you are,
01:35:37
◼
►
but, like, that's where my cynicism is, is
01:35:39
◼
►
I can see how it's useful now.
01:35:43
◼
►
I don't know if you're like me,
01:35:45
◼
►
but I, after a day with the first iPhone X,
01:35:49
◼
►
I just stopped seeing the notch entirely.
01:35:51
◼
►
It went away.
01:35:52
◼
►
And I, last year on the 13 Pro,
01:35:54
◼
►
they were like, "We made the notch smaller,"
01:35:55
◼
►
and I was like, "What notch?"
01:35:56
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, yep, I thought the same thing.
01:35:58
◼
►
And I was like, "Did they really?"
01:35:59
◼
►
And then I, like, compared it,
01:36:00
◼
►
and I was like, "Holy hell, they did.
01:36:02
◼
►
"That actually is smaller."
01:36:03
◼
►
- Right, so, but the island is not invisible.
01:36:06
◼
►
They moved it down.
01:36:07
◼
►
I run my phone in light mode,
01:36:09
◼
►
so there's bright light above and below it,
01:36:12
◼
►
so I see it, it is always moving.
01:36:14
◼
►
So I'm just, like, looking at this thing a lot.
01:36:16
◼
►
And I, the big trade to me is,
01:36:19
◼
►
okay, well, now I have to see it.
01:36:21
◼
►
Like, it's not just, like, this invisible thing on the phone
01:36:24
◼
►
that, like, people complain about for sport on Twitter,
01:36:27
◼
►
but is actually, like, barely visible.
01:36:29
◼
►
It's a thing that I'm looking at.
01:36:31
◼
►
It actually, it's lower on the screen.
01:36:32
◼
►
Whenever I get stressed out, I shop for cars.
01:36:34
◼
►
I rarely buy a car,
01:36:36
◼
►
but it's been a very stressful couple weeks for me,
01:36:38
◼
►
so I've been shopping for cars, like, every minute.
01:36:39
◼
►
- Very odd stress reliever, but we all have our--
01:36:43
◼
►
- Like, I'm just like, what if I owned, like,
01:36:45
◼
►
a 1988 Mercedes, and I just, like, shop,
01:36:47
◼
►
but, like, just, like, see if I can buy one.
01:36:49
◼
►
I never buy them, but, so I've had, like,
01:36:50
◼
►
the cars.com app, the top of it, the pictures of the car,
01:36:55
◼
►
because the island is lower,
01:36:58
◼
►
all the pictures of the car are cut off.
01:37:00
◼
►
This is, like, they'll update the app,
01:37:01
◼
►
and it's a tiny little personal experience,
01:37:04
◼
►
but it just made me think, like,
01:37:05
◼
►
the trade-off of value I am getting right now
01:37:08
◼
►
for this thing being visible is not gonna be aligned
01:37:12
◼
►
until the Packers game is in there,
01:37:15
◼
►
until Flighty is in there, and I'm in the airport,
01:37:16
◼
►
and I'm like, this is rad.
01:37:17
◼
►
Like, there's just a ramp to utility
01:37:22
◼
►
that has not been achieved yet,
01:37:24
◼
►
and we'll just see, and I, like,
01:37:26
◼
►
the off-ramps from utility are,
01:37:28
◼
►
yeah, they're gonna stick ads in it.
01:37:29
◼
►
- Can we intercede?
01:37:30
◼
►
Can we complain about American Airlines?
01:37:34
◼
►
Hey, their app is horrible.
01:37:36
◼
►
Flighty is awesome.
01:37:37
◼
►
If anybody out there, even if you only fly occasionally,
01:37:39
◼
►
Flighty is so much more useful.
01:37:42
◼
►
- My flight home from San Francisco last Friday
01:37:46
◼
►
was supposed to be at, like, let's say 1 p.m.
01:37:48
◼
►
It was, like, 1255 or something,
01:37:50
◼
►
and at 1230, when we were already supposed
01:37:53
◼
►
to have started boarding, they made an announcement
01:37:55
◼
►
that we might be boarding 20 to 30 minutes late
01:37:58
◼
►
'cause the mechanics are looking at an issue,
01:38:01
◼
►
and I turned to the guy next to me and said,
01:38:02
◼
►
we're not getting on this plane,
01:38:04
◼
►
because if they thought we might have a 30,
01:38:08
◼
►
even an hour delay while mechanics fixed something,
01:38:11
◼
►
they would load us on the plane
01:38:12
◼
►
and make us sit in our seats while they do it.
01:38:15
◼
►
That's happened to me, you know, it's happened to everybody.
01:38:18
◼
►
If they don't let you board the plane,
01:38:20
◼
►
they don't think the plane's gonna take off,
01:38:21
◼
►
and lo and behold, the plane never took off,
01:38:24
◼
►
and we had to wait for another plane,
01:38:26
◼
►
and it was, I don't know, five hours later
01:38:28
◼
►
when a plane came, but my favorite part was
01:38:31
◼
►
when the gate agent announced it, she said,
01:38:36
◼
►
"Don't worry, it's a good plane this time."
01:38:39
◼
►
Right over the PA system.
01:38:41
◼
►
That's pretty good.
01:38:43
◼
►
So when I was, so my week at the Apple event was ridiculous,
01:38:47
◼
►
so I was home in Chicago for Labor Day,
01:38:49
◼
►
and then I flew to LA for code,
01:38:51
◼
►
and then I flew to the Apple event,
01:38:52
◼
►
and then I flew back to LA, and then I flew to New York,
01:38:56
◼
►
and just to make all that work,
01:38:58
◼
►
I flew every major domestic airline.
01:39:02
◼
►
- Just to arrange all the flights,
01:39:03
◼
►
and actually, I was so worried about not making it
01:39:06
◼
►
from code to Cupertino that I booked two flights
01:39:10
◼
►
out of LA to CIFA, and I had competing
01:39:14
◼
►
American and Delta flights.
01:39:16
◼
►
So rarely do you directly compare the apps
01:39:19
◼
►
of major airlines, but just that week, I flew them all.
01:39:24
◼
►
I was at LAX three times in three days,
01:39:25
◼
►
which I do not recommend, just not a good way
01:39:28
◼
►
to spend your time, and so Delta has the best one, I think.
01:39:31
◼
►
United is somewhere in the middle,
01:39:33
◼
►
and then the American Airlines app is full
01:39:35
◼
►
of the weirdest custom Sheets animations,
01:39:40
◼
►
and they just are bouncing around.
01:39:42
◼
►
Just kick 'em off the store, Apple.
01:39:44
◼
►
Just be like, human interface, we run the store, all right?
01:39:47
◼
►
You're gone.
01:39:48
◼
►
Come back when you've done some system-level animations.
01:39:52
◼
►
- I like how they spent so much time
01:39:54
◼
►
putting beautiful wallpapers behind the background.
01:39:58
◼
►
It's like the main thing about the American app,
01:40:01
◼
►
Axes, though, it's the only app you'll ever use
01:40:03
◼
►
on the phone, and it has a wallpaper,
01:40:05
◼
►
and they show these beautiful locations
01:40:07
◼
►
from around the world, and it's the only thing
01:40:09
◼
►
that looks good in the app.
01:40:10
◼
►
Who gives a shit?
01:40:11
◼
►
Nobody's going to the American Airlines app
01:40:13
◼
►
to see pictures of the islands of Maui.
01:40:17
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, it's, I don't think I'm saying
01:40:21
◼
►
anything controversial or new to be like,
01:40:23
◼
►
airline apps are bad.
01:40:24
◼
►
I'm just saying that the island offers you
01:40:26
◼
►
the opportunity to opt out of them,
01:40:28
◼
►
but how long is it gonna take American
01:40:31
◼
►
to build their island widget?
01:40:33
◼
►
- I don't know, but I just opened the app,
01:40:35
◼
►
and I'm looking at it now, and I would estimate
01:40:37
◼
►
that two-thirds of the screen is an ad
01:40:41
◼
►
for the city adventure.
01:40:43
◼
►
- This is what I'm saying.
01:40:44
◼
►
When you're like, the widget has to be
01:40:46
◼
►
the purest representation of the app,
01:40:49
◼
►
well, if you look at the app,
01:40:50
◼
►
it's the purest representation of it
01:40:53
◼
►
is a call to action to sign up for a credit card.
01:40:55
◼
►
- It's, you know how it's sort of weird
01:40:59
◼
►
that a computer company like Apple
01:41:01
◼
►
and an online retailer like Amazon
01:41:04
◼
►
are now major streaming networks and platforms, right?
01:41:07
◼
►
It's, you know, we get it.
01:41:09
◼
►
We're not gonna go there on this show.
01:41:10
◼
►
There's too much to talk about,
01:41:11
◼
►
but it's just sort of like, it's kind of weird, though,
01:41:13
◼
►
that it's like two of the major streaming platforms
01:41:16
◼
►
with some of the best, most talked about content
01:41:18
◼
►
are a store and a computer company.
01:41:21
◼
►
American Airlines is more like there's this,
01:41:23
◼
►
there's a credit card company that now bought an airline.
01:41:28
◼
►
- Yeah, oh, for sure.
01:41:30
◼
►
- This just happened to run an airline.
01:41:32
◼
►
- Yeah, this is like all the major airlines now.
01:41:34
◼
►
You know, Sony in Japan is basically an insurance company
01:41:37
◼
►
that happens to make TVs.
01:41:38
◼
►
The end comes for you and you don't even know it happened.
01:41:42
◼
►
You're like, oh, we're a financial services company.
01:41:44
◼
►
- We were on vacation as a family in August
01:41:46
◼
►
and on the flight home, and of course, we're a threesome,
01:41:49
◼
►
or we were before my son went to college,
01:41:51
◼
►
and now we're back to a twosome.
01:41:52
◼
►
But so we had seats in first,
01:41:55
◼
►
and guess who gets to sit by himself?
01:41:57
◼
►
It's always me, right?
01:41:59
◼
►
My son and my wife sit next to each other
01:42:01
◼
►
and I sit by myself.
01:42:03
◼
►
I saw the most amazing thing happen.
01:42:06
◼
►
The guy next to me signed up for the American credit card.
01:42:10
◼
►
- Oh my God. - On the flight.
01:42:11
◼
►
I've never seen it. - That's great.
01:42:12
◼
►
- All of my life.
01:42:14
◼
►
- It finally worked.
01:42:15
◼
►
That's the one, that's the one conversion they get a year
01:42:17
◼
►
that justifies all of the ads.
01:42:19
◼
►
- All of the miles I've ever flown.
01:42:22
◼
►
- And they can't even track it, right?
01:42:24
◼
►
They make the pilot say the announcement on every flight
01:42:27
◼
►
and they don't even know that it worked one time.
01:42:29
◼
►
- Here, I'm looking at my American app.
01:42:31
◼
►
I have 308,000 miles, award miles.
01:42:35
◼
►
That's how often I have flown on American.
01:42:37
◼
►
And I saw a guy sign up for the credit card
01:42:40
◼
►
right there on the flight.
01:42:43
◼
►
All right, let me take a break here
01:42:44
◼
►
and I will thank our next sponsor and we'll move on.
01:42:47
◼
►
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01:42:50
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Once you have the template you wanna start with,
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you can tweak it to your heart's desire
01:43:10
◼
►
and it is a complete drag and drop interface
01:43:12
◼
►
right in the browser.
01:43:14
◼
►
It is what you see is what you get
01:43:16
◼
►
because while you're editing your website,
01:43:20
◼
►
it looks exactly like it's gonna look for everybody else
01:43:23
◼
►
except the admin and design tools
01:43:26
◼
►
are removed from the screen.
01:43:27
◼
►
Analytics, online stores, email campaigns.
01:43:31
◼
►
You wanna run email campaigns,
01:43:32
◼
►
you could do it right from Squarespace.
01:43:34
◼
►
Same platform you use to update the content on your website.
01:43:38
◼
►
You can update the emails that you send to people.
01:43:40
◼
►
It's all there, all built in.
01:43:42
◼
►
It is exactly the first place you should go
01:43:44
◼
►
to build your next website
01:43:46
◼
►
or to redesign a website you already have.
01:43:49
◼
►
Where do you go to find out more?
01:43:50
◼
►
Go to squarespace.com/talkshow.
01:43:53
◼
►
That's squarespace.com/talkshow.
01:43:56
◼
►
You get a free trial, 30 days, no credit card required.
01:44:00
◼
►
Everything you see is exactly like it'll be
01:44:03
◼
►
with the 30 days are up.
01:44:04
◼
►
You just remember that code talk show.
01:44:05
◼
►
You save 10% off your first purchase.
01:44:07
◼
►
You could pay for a whole year in advance,
01:44:09
◼
►
save 10% with that code squarespace.com/talkshow.
01:44:14
◼
►
And let's see, anything else on the iPhones?
01:44:16
◼
►
How about the cameras?
01:44:17
◼
►
That's certainly worth talking about.
01:44:18
◼
►
- Yeah, I'll just, here's my,
01:44:20
◼
►
this is, they have a new sensor.
01:44:22
◼
►
I think it's 48 megapixels sensor on a pro.
01:44:24
◼
►
And I think they are being too conservative with it.
01:44:29
◼
►
And I think it looked, they can do more with it.
01:44:34
◼
►
And right now they're just, they're in this weird corner
01:44:37
◼
►
where they're doing a lot of noise reduction
01:44:40
◼
►
and a lot of sharpening,
01:44:41
◼
►
and they should stop it and let the sensor shine.
01:44:44
◼
►
That's my hot tick.
01:44:47
◼
►
- So again, I have not, as we record,
01:44:51
◼
►
the closest red review is yours
01:44:53
◼
►
because I knew you were gonna be in the show.
01:44:55
◼
►
And I'm gonna tell you the truth, I'll admit it.
01:44:57
◼
►
I always read your reviews, your first or second.
01:45:01
◼
►
I was looking at your example photos,
01:45:04
◼
►
and you had some example photos, and a good selection.
01:45:09
◼
►
You had some where you compared the 14 Pro to the 13 Pro.
01:45:13
◼
►
Some where you compared to the Pixel 6,
01:45:18
◼
►
what's the best six pixel from last year?
01:45:21
◼
►
Yeah, Pixel 6 Pro.
01:45:23
◼
►
And some where you compared against the Samsung Galaxy 22,
01:45:28
◼
►
whatever the last word of that phone is.
01:45:31
◼
►
It's not that the iPhone looks bad,
01:45:35
◼
►
but you're describing it as inconsistent
01:45:38
◼
►
is exactly what I'm seeing.
01:45:40
◼
►
Again, not bad.
01:45:44
◼
►
And we're talking about all these phones
01:45:46
◼
►
that are excellent cameras for phones.
01:45:48
◼
►
Truly excellent, we live in a wonderful era.
01:45:50
◼
►
But the iPhone seems a little all over the place.
01:45:53
◼
►
I thought that the night shot comparison with the Pixel,
01:45:56
◼
►
and like you said, they were very different.
01:45:59
◼
►
I thought the iPhone one was much better.
01:46:01
◼
►
That's more to my liking.
01:46:02
◼
►
- Yeah, the iPhone's brighter and the Pixel is more even,
01:46:05
◼
►
is like how I would put it.
01:46:07
◼
►
- And I thought like the entrance to the bar
01:46:09
◼
►
or restaurant, whatever it was,
01:46:11
◼
►
just looked deeper and richer.
01:46:13
◼
►
I thought the Pixel kinda blew that one,
01:46:15
◼
►
but not in a bad way, but just not to my liking.
01:46:17
◼
►
But then you had the shot across like a harbor
01:46:20
◼
►
or a river or something.
01:46:22
◼
►
And the iPhone's was just strange in my opinion.
01:46:25
◼
►
Like it did really weird things with the sky
01:46:29
◼
►
that almost looked like somebody
01:46:31
◼
►
took like the smudge tool in Photoshop
01:46:35
◼
►
and just ran it over the sky.
01:46:38
◼
►
And I don't really understand what it did
01:46:40
◼
►
with the reflection of the ferris wheel in the water.
01:46:43
◼
►
- That was the one that got me.
01:46:44
◼
►
I was like, "Ooh, we're doing too much."
01:46:47
◼
►
- Yeah, and that's, yeah, it over sharpened.
01:46:50
◼
►
There's a ferris wheel.
01:46:52
◼
►
It's a neat shot and it's a good example
01:46:54
◼
►
'cause it's nighttime, it's water.
01:46:56
◼
►
There's a ferris wheel across the water
01:46:58
◼
►
that's got all sorts of bright colored lights.
01:47:01
◼
►
And where it really over sharpened to me
01:47:04
◼
►
was on the reflection in the water.
01:47:07
◼
►
It just did something weird where the Pixel,
01:47:09
◼
►
it's like, "Yeah, that's what the shot should look like."
01:47:12
◼
►
- Yeah, I think the last time I reviewed iPhone Pro
01:47:15
◼
►
was the 12 Pro two years ago
01:47:18
◼
►
and then Dieter did the 13s last year.
01:47:20
◼
►
And so two years ago, I said,
01:47:23
◼
►
"All these phones have started to look the same."
01:47:25
◼
►
Like there was that moment where the Pixel
01:47:27
◼
►
was really opinionated and super contrasty
01:47:30
◼
►
and I loved those photos and the iPhone
01:47:33
◼
►
did really like over HDR in the beginning
01:47:37
◼
►
and everything was too like artificial looking.
01:47:41
◼
►
And then Samsung was like another planet with colors.
01:47:43
◼
►
It kinda still is.
01:47:44
◼
►
- Yeah, no, but just as an aside,
01:47:47
◼
►
I thought that that over, too heavy handed with the HDR
01:47:52
◼
►
was very odd for Apple because Apple's taste
01:47:55
◼
►
tends to run towards the natural in all cases.
01:47:58
◼
►
And the HDR in a couple of years ago
01:48:02
◼
►
was really odd because it looked unnatural.
01:48:05
◼
►
- Yeah, it was just like, they were like,
01:48:07
◼
►
"Shadows are gone.
01:48:08
◼
►
In our world, there are no shadows."
01:48:10
◼
►
And it was like, actually, hold on.
01:48:12
◼
►
Right, and then Google was like,
01:48:13
◼
►
"In our world, everything is very moody."
01:48:16
◼
►
And then Samsung was like, "You're on drugs."
01:48:17
◼
►
And those were their looks, right?
01:48:19
◼
►
And it was like fine and like they were predictable.
01:48:21
◼
►
And then a couple of years ago,
01:48:22
◼
►
they all converged. - Not a lot of drugs,
01:48:24
◼
►
but a little drugs.
01:48:25
◼
►
- Yeah, just enough to have a good time, right?
01:48:27
◼
►
And then so they all converged a couple of years ago
01:48:29
◼
►
and then they're starting to diverge again.
01:48:32
◼
►
And so last year, I think Dieter,
01:48:33
◼
►
when he reviewed the 13 Pro,
01:48:34
◼
►
he said, "This camera's incredibly confident.
01:48:37
◼
►
It knows what it is.
01:48:38
◼
►
It knows what kinds of pictures it wants to make.
01:48:40
◼
►
And it just does it every single time."
01:48:42
◼
►
And I think the 14 Pro is trying to make 13 Pro pictures
01:48:47
◼
►
with a totally different sensor
01:48:50
◼
►
and a totally different pathway.
01:48:53
◼
►
And it's just getting lost.
01:48:55
◼
►
And it should make the pictures it wants to make.
01:48:58
◼
►
- That's a really good theory.
01:49:00
◼
►
'Cause I have to say, and again,
01:49:02
◼
►
one of the reasons I do it, I'm a one-person show.
01:49:06
◼
►
There's only so much I can do in a week.
01:49:07
◼
►
I knew, I kinda had the gist.
01:49:10
◼
►
I had enough.
01:49:11
◼
►
I was like, "I think I got the trail
01:49:12
◼
►
of what I wanna write.
01:49:13
◼
►
I know it's gonna be long.
01:49:15
◼
►
I'm gonna have a hard time hitting a deadline.
01:49:16
◼
►
I know I've got, actually,
01:49:18
◼
►
I'm not gonna even be here on Wednesday.
01:49:19
◼
►
So if I blow it and don't hit the Wednesday morning,
01:49:21
◼
►
blah, blah, blah, I'm not gonna shoot a lot of photos."
01:49:23
◼
►
And the other thing is,
01:49:24
◼
►
even if I thought I had time to shoot the photos,
01:49:26
◼
►
I'm not gonna do as good job as some people.
01:49:28
◼
►
I'm not gonna do even as good job as you.
01:49:30
◼
►
I'm certainly not gonna do Austin Mann type stuff.
01:49:33
◼
►
Somebody else is gonna do it,
01:49:34
◼
►
and I'll just link to them, right?
01:49:36
◼
►
And we'll get back to that philosophy in a bit.
01:49:39
◼
►
I'll just link to them.
01:49:40
◼
►
But I did take some, of course I took some photos, right?
01:49:42
◼
►
And of course I'm walking around with two phones in my pocket,
01:49:45
◼
►
my 13 Pro and my 14 Pro.
01:49:47
◼
►
And I took a lot of photos where I'm like,
01:49:49
◼
►
"I don't see a difference."
01:49:50
◼
►
And that's not a bad thing, right?
01:49:52
◼
►
'Cause I've liked my 13 Pro,
01:49:54
◼
►
but I'm seeing that sort of,
01:49:57
◼
►
this is a way different sensor, way different sensor,
01:50:00
◼
►
and I'm getting a lot of very similar shots.
01:50:04
◼
►
But I think what you've stumbled upon
01:50:07
◼
►
is in edge conditions, it can't reproduce the same output.
01:50:12
◼
►
And they should just let this sensor be itself.
01:50:14
◼
►
And if they come out different, let it,
01:50:16
◼
►
it's a good sensor, it's a great sensor.
01:50:18
◼
►
But it shouldn't look exactly the same
01:50:21
◼
►
as the 13 Pro in every condition.
01:50:24
◼
►
- The thing that kills me about that is,
01:50:27
◼
►
so next year they'll let it be itself a little bit more.
01:50:29
◼
►
You mentioned software locks earlier,
01:50:32
◼
►
and I did not jump on it 'cause I wanted to bring it up
01:50:35
◼
►
in this part of the conversation.
01:50:36
◼
►
They're not gonna roll whatever updates happen next year
01:50:39
◼
►
to this phone.
01:50:41
◼
►
- They're not gonna update this camera.
01:50:43
◼
►
The camera on the iPhone is like this bizarrely fixed object.
01:50:47
◼
►
- That changes crazily hardware year to hardware year.
01:50:51
◼
►
- Yeah, right, but so that it's like,
01:50:53
◼
►
they keep telling us that this is computational photography,
01:50:56
◼
►
it's all defined in software.
01:50:58
◼
►
And then every year they're like,
01:50:59
◼
►
"And we have new hardware,
01:51:00
◼
►
"and no further software changes will come to the camera."
01:51:03
◼
►
And it's like, wait, hold up.
01:51:04
◼
►
Like the 14 is basically the same phone as the 13, right?
01:51:09
◼
►
It has the same 12 megapixel sensor,
01:51:12
◼
►
it has the same lens, as far as we can tell.
01:51:14
◼
►
Like everything seems the same.
01:51:16
◼
►
- There's some changes.
01:51:17
◼
►
- It has the same processor.
01:51:19
◼
►
- And you're not giving it like whatever deep fusion
01:51:22
◼
►
is moving earlier in the pipeline to uncompressed images.
01:51:25
◼
►
- Yeah, the photonic engine.
01:51:27
◼
►
- And that's the real rebranding there, right?
01:51:29
◼
►
They're just doing deep fusion.
01:51:30
◼
►
By the way, I didn't know this.
01:51:31
◼
►
Deep fusion occurs on mid and low light images only.
01:51:36
◼
►
And smart HDR happens elsewhere in the pipeline,
01:51:40
◼
►
mostly on bright images.
01:51:41
◼
►
I had no idea this was true.
01:51:44
◼
►
- Right, so this is the curious thing about photonic engine
01:51:48
◼
►
being only on the 14 models, but it is on all 14.
01:51:51
◼
►
It's not locked to pros.
01:51:53
◼
►
It's all 14 models get photonic engine,
01:51:56
◼
►
no other older iPhones get it.
01:51:58
◼
►
But it's curious because the,
01:52:03
◼
►
let's just say it even requires the fifth GPU core, right?
01:52:07
◼
►
Like the sort of song and dance of how did the 14
01:52:10
◼
►
get a chip upgrade from the 13 is when they're both on A15
01:52:15
◼
►
is last year's iPhone 13's got a four core A15,
01:52:19
◼
►
but last year's 13 pros got a five core GPU on the A15.
01:52:24
◼
►
They were binning the GPUs.
01:52:27
◼
►
And this year, the iPhone 14's as a year over year
01:52:32
◼
►
comparison get the one extra GPU core.
01:52:37
◼
►
And like I said in my review,
01:52:38
◼
►
one extra GPU core makes it sound, who cares?
01:52:42
◼
►
25% more GPU processing sounds pretty cool.
01:52:46
◼
►
So a glass half full, glass half empty.
01:52:49
◼
►
It's an upgrade.
01:52:50
◼
►
It's obviously the smallest upgrade chip wise
01:52:53
◼
►
ever in this era.
01:52:56
◼
►
But now you see the pattern where next year
01:52:58
◼
►
it'll get the 16 and the pros will get the 17.
01:53:01
◼
►
And now they're one generation apart.
01:53:03
◼
►
And there's no way to get there
01:53:06
◼
►
without an awkward year like this one.
01:53:08
◼
►
But so let's just say 13 pro,
01:53:11
◼
►
not even talking regular 13 and the regular iPhone 14,
01:53:15
◼
►
they both have the five GPU core A15 chip,
01:53:20
◼
►
but the last year's 13 pro doesn't get photonic engine.
01:53:24
◼
►
So I asked, if they both have the A15, same A15, why is that?
01:53:29
◼
►
And I can't quote the answer,
01:53:31
◼
►
but it is something to the effect of,
01:53:34
◼
►
what I wanted to know,
01:53:34
◼
►
is there something else hardware in the pipeline?
01:53:37
◼
►
Is there some connection from the sensor to the image,
01:53:41
◼
►
the ISP that is faster so that it can process the raw
01:53:46
◼
►
instead of this, but only on the,
01:53:49
◼
►
even though the A14 has the same A15 chip,
01:53:52
◼
►
there's a pipeline to the sensor.
01:53:54
◼
►
Is that the case or is this a software lock?
01:53:56
◼
►
And the answer was something to the effect of,
01:53:58
◼
►
our cameras and chips are designed to work together
01:54:03
◼
►
and require unique updates.
01:54:06
◼
►
- Right, they just like spun the wheel
01:54:08
◼
►
and they're like, here's the boilerplate.
01:54:10
◼
►
- We're not gonna do the software update.
01:54:11
◼
►
- It is, it was an answer that I honestly,
01:54:14
◼
►
even though I speak fluent Cupertinoese,
01:54:18
◼
►
I honestly don't know what, if they were,
01:54:23
◼
►
I obviously did not get a yes or no,
01:54:25
◼
►
and I didn't expect to get a yes or no,
01:54:27
◼
►
but a lot of times I get an answer
01:54:29
◼
►
that I know how to interpret as a yes or a no.
01:54:32
◼
►
And this one is, I don't know.
01:54:36
◼
►
I really don't, I kind of think yes,
01:54:38
◼
►
that there's some hardware improvement to the pipeline.
01:54:43
◼
►
I do think so, but I'm like 50, 60% thinking
01:54:49
◼
►
there actually is a hardware aspect to it,
01:54:51
◼
►
even though it's the same system on a chip,
01:54:54
◼
►
but I don't know.
01:54:55
◼
►
And I couldn't get an answer off the record either.
01:54:57
◼
►
- Yeah, look, if I was a 13 Pro owner,
01:55:00
◼
►
I'd be like, you have to tell me, right?
01:55:03
◼
►
Let's just explain to me exactly why.
01:55:05
◼
►
And then if I was a 14 Pro owner,
01:55:08
◼
►
I would be like, I've got this new 48 megapixel sensor.
01:55:13
◼
►
Apple can bin it into this quad pixel array
01:55:17
◼
►
that captures more light,
01:55:19
◼
►
or they can crop it to do this 2X zoom
01:55:22
◼
►
and this action mode stuff.
01:55:23
◼
►
Those are the beginnings of ideas.
01:55:26
◼
►
So if I'm paying $1,100 for this phone,
01:55:30
◼
►
am I gonna get more value out of the sensor in it over time?
01:55:34
◼
►
The way that I get more value out of every other piece
01:55:37
◼
►
of hardware on the phone, right?
01:55:39
◼
►
The processor can do more things over time,
01:55:43
◼
►
more apps are developed that use the sensors,
01:55:46
◼
►
like all the stuff,
01:55:47
◼
►
like the phones just get better over time.
01:55:49
◼
►
- The dynamic island is going to have more content
01:55:51
◼
►
later this year.
01:55:53
◼
►
- Yeah, you'll be able to sign up for a credit card
01:55:54
◼
►
directly from it, except this weird camera,
01:55:57
◼
►
which Apple is telling us is a software masterpiece.
01:56:02
◼
►
And it is, right?
01:56:03
◼
►
They're doing all this processing,
01:56:04
◼
►
they're capturing seven images at once,
01:56:06
◼
►
they're layering them, all this stuff is happening,
01:56:09
◼
►
but that is locked into place.
01:56:12
◼
►
We've gone through how many computational photography
01:56:14
◼
►
iPhones now?
01:56:15
◼
►
The photos on the first day look basically the same
01:56:19
◼
►
as the photos on the last day.
01:56:20
◼
►
And to me, that's fundamentally bizarre,
01:56:24
◼
►
and fine, it is what it is.
01:56:26
◼
►
But if you're the 13th year owner this year,
01:56:27
◼
►
you've gotta be wondering,
01:56:28
◼
►
like I should be able to get this software update.
01:56:32
◼
►
You have to tell me why I can't get it,
01:56:33
◼
►
because it's an unlike Apple software lock
01:56:37
◼
►
in a way that not being able to hold down on the pill
01:56:40
◼
►
and get the dynamic island widget kind of isn't.
01:56:43
◼
►
Sure, there's at least a reason for that.
01:56:44
◼
►
We're reserving all of this for the island,
01:56:47
◼
►
we want that to be a consistent experience,
01:56:49
◼
►
we're doing hardware anti-aliasing that your phone can,
01:56:51
◼
►
whatever it is.
01:56:52
◼
►
So this one is just purely,
01:56:54
◼
►
we're not gonna give you the software, or a reason.
01:56:57
◼
►
And then I think on the 14 Pro,
01:57:00
◼
►
because it's a little inconsistent,
01:57:02
◼
►
you should have the expectation
01:57:04
◼
►
that it will take software improvements over time.
01:57:07
◼
►
- Let me put on my cynical hat and say that
01:57:09
◼
►
it's what I was told in my can't quote them,
01:57:12
◼
►
but got an answer on is the photonic engine hardware?
01:57:16
◼
►
Is that why it's only on the 14?
01:57:18
◼
►
Looking at the words of the answer,
01:57:22
◼
►
I'm 60% leaning towards yes, there's hardware.
01:57:26
◼
►
But the cynic in me says,
01:57:29
◼
►
if it really was a hardware story,
01:57:31
◼
►
they could just tell us that.
01:57:32
◼
►
And they could say, yeah, our chip team
01:57:33
◼
►
made this incredible pipeline adjustment
01:57:35
◼
►
to read the data off the sensor faster.
01:57:37
◼
►
And why wouldn't they just tell us that?
01:57:39
◼
►
Like, yeah, our hardware,
01:57:40
◼
►
'cause they like to brag about their hardware.
01:57:42
◼
►
So the cynic in me says, sounds like a software lock.
01:57:46
◼
►
- We have a great new sensor
01:57:47
◼
►
that can pass data over the bus to the ISP in the A15,
01:57:51
◼
►
even faster than before,
01:57:52
◼
►
letting us do deep fusion or an uncompressed image.
01:57:55
◼
►
Great, I'll buy it.
01:57:57
◼
►
But the fact that they won't say is like--
01:57:59
◼
►
- Yeah, and let me just clarify your thing too
01:58:02
◼
►
about the photos, the modes of the camera,
01:58:04
◼
►
like portrait mode is the best example,
01:58:07
◼
►
do get software updates, right?
01:58:09
◼
►
Like if you have a two or three year old iPhone,
01:58:12
◼
►
your portrait mode photos look better today
01:58:15
◼
►
than they did when you bought it,
01:58:16
◼
►
because the portrait mode does go through software
01:58:20
◼
►
that that improves and the camera app updates.
01:58:23
◼
►
It's just the, if you just take a regular still photo
01:58:27
◼
►
is the thing that doesn't seem to get improvements
01:58:30
◼
►
once the hardware ships.
01:58:31
◼
►
- But it's bizarre 'cause it's a software defined camera.
01:58:35
◼
►
Like at its heart.
01:58:37
◼
►
- You'd think so, right?
01:58:38
◼
►
I think even night mode is one of those things
01:58:41
◼
►
that does get improvements, right?
01:58:43
◼
►
It's just though the pure simplest thing the camera can do,
01:58:47
◼
►
take a shot and give me a 12 megapixel JPEG of it, right?
01:58:51
◼
►
'Cause putting, like you said in your review,
01:58:54
◼
►
99.8% of iPhone users have no reason to ever shoot RAW.
01:58:58
◼
►
And of them, if they did,
01:59:03
◼
►
they would think the camera was broken
01:59:04
◼
►
because they'd look at the RAW image
01:59:06
◼
►
and think this is the worst cell phone picture
01:59:08
◼
►
I've taken since I was using a Nokia flip phone,
01:59:10
◼
►
'cause that's what unprocessed RAW images look like.
01:59:12
◼
►
- I will say that I had a great time shooting RAW
01:59:14
◼
►
on this iPhone.
01:59:15
◼
►
It's very slow.
01:59:16
◼
►
- Yeah, I only did enough just to see if it's low.
01:59:21
◼
►
And they have an option to shoot 12 megapixel RAW.
01:59:26
◼
►
- Oh, I didn't see that.
01:59:28
◼
►
- So pixel bend RAW is a thing.
01:59:30
◼
►
- Something, here's another one.
01:59:32
◼
►
I have this in my notes.
01:59:33
◼
►
And I know I do this once a year
01:59:36
◼
►
'cause I don't usually go to the camera settings in settings.
01:59:39
◼
►
But I do it every time I review a phone.
01:59:41
◼
►
And I know it's a whole separate argument
01:59:44
◼
►
of how are the settings in the settings app organized?
01:59:49
◼
►
What is that?
01:59:50
◼
►
But look at how far down camera is.
01:59:53
◼
►
It is bizarrely low.
01:59:57
◼
►
- Yeah, it's not in the first grouping, right?
01:59:59
◼
►
It's in the second grouping.
01:59:59
◼
►
- No, go look at it right now.
02:00:04
◼
►
- Yeah, I always look for it in the first grouping.
02:00:06
◼
►
- I wish it were in the first grouping.
02:00:08
◼
►
I wish that you could rearrange these.
02:00:09
◼
►
- You're not even in the third grouping.
02:00:11
◼
►
- No, it's the first grouping.
02:00:13
◼
►
Then there's the notifications one.
02:00:14
◼
►
Then there's, the one where I really think it should be
02:00:16
◼
►
is like general control center, battery, blah, blah, blah.
02:00:19
◼
►
- That's where I was.
02:00:20
◼
►
- Then there's the big long one with all the apps,
02:00:21
◼
►
mail, contacts, calendar, notes, reminders, voice, phone,
02:00:25
◼
►
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Safari, news, translate.
02:00:27
◼
►
But nope, not there.
02:00:28
◼
►
And then you go all the way down
02:00:30
◼
►
and it's with music, TV, photos, camera, books.
02:00:33
◼
►
I don't know what this group is.
02:00:34
◼
►
- This is the sixth grouping I just counted.
02:00:35
◼
►
- But anyway, go to camera and formats.
02:00:39
◼
►
And then when you turn on Apple ProRAW.
02:00:41
◼
►
- Oh, look at that.
02:00:42
◼
►
- There's a thing that says ProRAW resolution
02:00:44
◼
►
and you can change it from 48 to 12.
02:00:46
◼
►
- All right, I did not shoot any ProRAW at 12.
02:00:51
◼
►
I had a lot of fun shooting at 48.
02:00:52
◼
►
When you hit the capture button, the shutter is still fast.
02:00:55
◼
►
But it just takes a lot of time
02:00:56
◼
►
to read all the data and process it.
02:00:59
◼
►
And so it was like, I guess I would use this for landscapes.
02:01:03
◼
►
Like if anyone's moving, I wanna take a bunch of frames.
02:01:05
◼
►
- Well, Apple has a weird rule too.
02:01:07
◼
►
And while we're talking about cameras
02:01:08
◼
►
and philosophical differences with like the Pixel team
02:01:11
◼
►
and other companies, not weird, but unique.
02:01:14
◼
►
Apple has had a obvious unofficial,
02:01:17
◼
►
but that I happen to know internally is an official rule.
02:01:21
◼
►
They just don't talk about it publicly.
02:01:22
◼
►
But everything the iPhone camera does has to happen live.
02:01:27
◼
►
There can be no, nothing happens where you hit the shutter
02:01:30
◼
►
and it takes a while to process, right?
02:01:33
◼
►
And like the Pixel team doesn't quite,
02:01:35
◼
►
it's not that the Pixel camera is known as being slow,
02:01:38
◼
►
but like when Pixel had night mode originally,
02:01:42
◼
►
it you'd take up night mode photo
02:01:44
◼
►
and it would take a second or two
02:01:45
◼
►
for the night mode processing to show up
02:01:48
◼
►
in the thumbnail of the thing that you took.
02:01:50
◼
►
Which I think most people think is fine, right?
02:01:53
◼
►
I mean, if we used to wait, when I was a kid,
02:01:56
◼
►
like two minutes for a Polaroid to develop,
02:01:59
◼
►
sit there waving it in the air,
02:02:00
◼
►
which of course did nothing,
02:02:01
◼
►
but felt like you were doing something.
02:02:03
◼
►
It's like hitting elevator buttons
02:02:04
◼
►
or crosswalk buttons, right?
02:02:05
◼
►
I want to cross the street,
02:02:06
◼
►
I'll hit the button a couple of times.
02:02:07
◼
►
But Apple only does stuff if it's like the rule,
02:02:10
◼
►
it has to be instantaneous.
02:02:12
◼
►
The way that these 48 megapixel RAWs take,
02:02:16
◼
►
I don't know how long, I would call it a moment at least,
02:02:20
◼
►
a pregnant pause to show up.
02:02:22
◼
►
I think they've made an exception to it, right?
02:02:27
◼
►
They knew they wanted to have a 48 megapixel sensor.
02:02:30
◼
►
This was obviously set in stone hardware-wise years ago.
02:02:34
◼
►
And I'm sure they tried to make it as fast as possible,
02:02:37
◼
►
but there's no other way about it.
02:02:39
◼
►
But if they didn't already offer RAW,
02:02:42
◼
►
they wouldn't offer RAW this year because it takes so long.
02:02:46
◼
►
I think the only reason there's this pause
02:02:48
◼
►
is that they offered RAW
02:02:50
◼
►
when they could do it seemingly instantaneously.
02:02:53
◼
►
Now the RAW feature is in the system
02:02:56
◼
►
and so they have to continue supporting it.
02:02:58
◼
►
But now that they've added four times the pixels
02:03:01
◼
►
to the sensor, they've put themselves in a position
02:03:04
◼
►
that they unofficially would never want to be in
02:03:07
◼
►
where it takes a pregnant pause
02:03:10
◼
►
for a 48 megapixel RAW to be processed.
02:03:13
◼
►
It is the longest thing that any photo does
02:03:16
◼
►
in the camera app that I can remember using any iPhone ever.
02:03:20
◼
►
But who cares?
02:03:22
◼
►
It's for 90,
02:03:23
◼
►
anybody who actually wants to shoot 48 megapixel RAW
02:03:26
◼
►
is fine with it.
02:03:27
◼
►
- They're gonna be just fine.
02:03:29
◼
►
This is the one time where I'm like,
02:03:31
◼
►
it's kinda weird that a Canon 5D outperforms the iPhone.
02:03:36
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, that is true.
02:03:38
◼
►
- I think it never usually happens,
02:03:40
◼
►
but you can just fire off 30 megapixel 5D images
02:03:44
◼
►
at 100 frames a second or whatever, and it's fine.
02:03:47
◼
►
It'll just handle them and send them to the memory card
02:03:49
◼
►
and be done.
02:03:50
◼
►
- Right, right, because of course the Canons
02:03:52
◼
►
and the Sonys of the world with the real cameras
02:03:55
◼
►
have all the glass advantages and the sensor size advantages
02:03:59
◼
►
and all the things that come from physics
02:04:01
◼
►
and all the things that come from decades
02:04:04
◼
►
of building high-end professional glass and all this stuff.
02:04:07
◼
►
But man, the one thing that Apple has is silicon.
02:04:11
◼
►
- Yeah, and so it's weird, right?
02:04:13
◼
►
'Cause what we're talking about here is bandwidth.
02:04:16
◼
►
Fundamentally, it's slow,
02:04:18
◼
►
'cause you're just moving the image off the sensor
02:04:21
◼
►
And those cameras are all just completely optimized
02:04:25
◼
►
to do that as fast as possible.
02:04:27
◼
►
And here is the one place where you're like,
02:04:29
◼
►
oh, this is a general purpose computer
02:04:31
◼
►
that is struggling with this one problem.
02:04:33
◼
►
And usually with these cameras,
02:04:36
◼
►
it's like this general purpose computer
02:04:38
◼
►
is just totally outperforming these other cameras
02:04:41
◼
►
unless you really know how to use them.
02:04:43
◼
►
And it's like I can say to you,
02:04:46
◼
►
I couldn't put it in the review
02:04:47
◼
►
'cause it's such a wonky thought,
02:04:48
◼
►
but it was like the whole time I was like,
02:04:49
◼
►
I've got like a five-year-old 5D that is kicking
02:04:52
◼
►
this thing's ass at shooting high megapixel images.
02:04:55
◼
►
That's weird.
02:04:56
◼
►
- Yeah, it's weird 'cause that's the thing
02:04:58
◼
►
that Apple's always kicked ass at.
02:05:01
◼
►
- Let me think here, anything else with the camera?
02:05:03
◼
►
The video looks amazing,
02:05:04
◼
►
and that's the one area where Apple,
02:05:07
◼
►
for whatever reason, I don't get it why so many years later,
02:05:11
◼
►
Apple's video is so far ahead,
02:05:13
◼
►
whereas on photography, I think arguably,
02:05:17
◼
►
there's still the iPhone 14 Pro is still the best.
02:05:20
◼
►
I think you can, but it is a great debate, right?
02:05:24
◼
►
You can make the case for Samsung,
02:05:27
◼
►
you can make the case for the Pixel,
02:05:28
◼
►
and the new Pixel's coming out, I guess, next month.
02:05:31
◼
►
That's a debate to be had, and it has been for years,
02:05:33
◼
►
and like we just talked about half an hour ago,
02:05:36
◼
►
it's ebbed and flowed in interesting ways.
02:05:39
◼
►
But on video, it's undisputed.
02:05:41
◼
►
Apple is so far ahead of everybody else, and I don't get it.
02:05:44
◼
►
I don't get why they have, why,
02:05:46
◼
►
I get why they pulled ahead,
02:05:47
◼
►
but I don't get why nobody else has been able to catch up.
02:05:51
◼
►
- I think that might just be down to the processing lead.
02:05:53
◼
►
Everyone else is still kinda like,
02:05:55
◼
►
whatever Qualcomm will give 'em.
02:05:56
◼
►
But it's hard to know.
02:05:57
◼
►
I will say that the one thing that caught me about
02:05:59
◼
►
the difference between the Pro and the,
02:06:02
◼
►
the 14 Pro and the regular 14.
02:06:04
◼
►
So action mode is not that useful,
02:06:06
◼
►
in the same way that cinematic mode
02:06:07
◼
►
was not that useful last year.
02:06:08
◼
►
It demands a lot of light, it's obviously its first year.
02:06:11
◼
►
Cinematic mode has greatly improved this year.
02:06:13
◼
►
But the way they're doing it
02:06:15
◼
►
is they're cropping the sensor down,
02:06:17
◼
►
and then recording the whole sensor,
02:06:20
◼
►
and then moving that crop around to stabilize it.
02:06:24
◼
►
- In between frames.
02:06:25
◼
►
And this is another one where they're doing it live, right?
02:06:29
◼
►
And if they would just let themselves
02:06:30
◼
►
have five seconds of slack,
02:06:32
◼
►
or not show it in the viewfinder live.
02:06:36
◼
►
- There's something.
02:06:37
◼
►
Or show a shittier preview, like whatever it is.
02:06:39
◼
►
But the 48 megapixel sensor is way bigger.
02:06:42
◼
►
So like theoretically, you have way more space to stabilize,
02:06:45
◼
►
and they're not doing it.
02:06:47
◼
►
- Right, and like maybe that's bandwidth,
02:06:48
◼
►
maybe that's processing, there's a million reasons.
02:06:50
◼
►
But it's strange that in some of these places,
02:06:53
◼
►
they're kind of not using that sensor for all it can do.
02:06:55
◼
►
It's just my opinion of it.
02:06:57
◼
►
- Yeah, I wonder, I don't know.
02:06:58
◼
►
But I mean, action mode,
02:07:00
◼
►
if you ever have gotten on a rollercoaster,
02:07:02
◼
►
and I don't know, I would recommend
02:07:04
◼
►
putting a lanyard on your phone or something.
02:07:06
◼
►
But if you've ever held your phone
02:07:07
◼
►
while shooting something like that,
02:07:08
◼
►
I think it's gonna be terrific.
02:07:09
◼
►
Absolutely terrific, from what I've seen testing it.
02:07:12
◼
►
But the fact that--
02:07:13
◼
►
- Becca is our video director.
02:07:15
◼
►
She did that part of the video review.
02:07:16
◼
►
It's great, she has a great time reviewing these things.
02:07:19
◼
►
And she was like, this looks basically like the 13 Pro.
02:07:21
◼
►
That was her main takeaway.
02:07:23
◼
►
- I think they know what they're doing,
02:07:24
◼
►
and I'm not blaming them.
02:07:25
◼
►
But it seems like with these camera mode features,
02:07:30
◼
►
Apple is a little unusually aggressive
02:07:32
◼
►
about shipping the feature a year ahead
02:07:36
◼
►
of when it's really ready, right?
02:07:38
◼
►
Like the first year of portrait mode
02:07:39
◼
►
was really rough with hair and ears and--
02:07:44
◼
►
- Oh, that was the one that really got me,
02:07:45
◼
►
that Samsung is ahead of Apple in portrait mode.
02:07:47
◼
►
- Yep, I saw that in your example.
02:07:49
◼
►
And I was, you can't look at the side by side and deny it.
02:07:53
◼
►
I have taken some amazing portrait fixers
02:07:56
◼
►
with my iPhone over the last couple of years.
02:07:58
◼
►
And it's great, but if we wanna get into,
02:08:02
◼
►
and it's so much better than it was a few years ago.
02:08:04
◼
►
And again, anybody listening who like a couple of years ago
02:08:08
◼
►
tried portrait mode on an iPhone was like,
02:08:10
◼
►
ah, no, gross gimmick, and hasn't looked at it since,
02:08:14
◼
►
I really encourage you to try it again.
02:08:16
◼
►
Even if you have an older, a slightly older iPhone,
02:08:18
◼
►
but with the latest software.
02:08:20
◼
►
It really is a lot better,
02:08:21
◼
►
and it's actually useful and less gimmicky.
02:08:24
◼
►
And I think it's good that they shipped when they did,
02:08:26
◼
►
and I think it was like a forcing function
02:08:28
◼
►
to make them improve all the tricky things it needs to do.
02:08:32
◼
►
But yeah, your side by side example
02:08:34
◼
►
with the Samsung Galaxy 22 was the hair around the guy
02:08:39
◼
►
was clearly, clearly, honestly with the Samsung one,
02:08:42
◼
►
I did, I zoomed in, I couldn't really see,
02:08:45
◼
►
couldn't see a mistake.
02:08:46
◼
►
- Yeah, they did a good job.
02:08:47
◼
►
We have another one where it's just cut off outside,
02:08:51
◼
►
like in bright sunlight, it just cut off the side
02:08:54
◼
►
of our video producer, Mario's head.
02:08:55
◼
►
And I was like, that's, we're beyond this now.
02:08:58
◼
►
It was good, the portrait mode got good on the 12 Pro,
02:09:01
◼
►
in my opinion, that's when I started using it all the time.
02:09:03
◼
►
And I was like, we should, even the baby S22, not the Ultra,
02:09:06
◼
►
the iPhone 14 version of the S22 outperforms
02:09:10
◼
►
the iPhone 14 Pro, which is totally shocking to me.
02:09:13
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, that's what we're gonna do.
02:09:14
◼
►
- By the way, I'm looking at these,
02:09:15
◼
►
now I'm looking at these bar photos.
02:09:16
◼
►
I know why we disagree.
02:09:18
◼
►
I'm gonna describe a photo here.
02:09:20
◼
►
See, iPhone does a better job of, you're right,
02:09:22
◼
►
richer colors at night, and it has this kind of like
02:09:25
◼
►
beautiful, natural vending.
02:09:27
◼
►
The Pixel is more accurate because it lets the red light
02:09:30
◼
►
bleed into the other parts of the,
02:09:32
◼
►
the iPhone is color correcting too many things.
02:09:34
◼
►
I forgot that this was my criticism.
02:09:38
◼
►
I just looked at it again, I remember.
02:09:39
◼
►
- All right, all right, but anybody who's wondering
02:09:41
◼
►
what we're talking about, just go to the Verge review,
02:09:43
◼
►
scroll down to the, it's the one that has the really
02:09:47
◼
►
nifty slider you guys have, it looks like one photo,
02:09:50
◼
►
and you can just slide the divider left and right
02:09:53
◼
►
to go between the two pictures.
02:09:55
◼
►
It's a picture from the outside of a bar,
02:09:58
◼
►
sort of kitty corner to the entrance.
02:10:00
◼
►
- It's a neon sign, so it's like one of those shots
02:10:02
◼
►
that really shows off at night mode.
02:10:03
◼
►
- Anything else on the camera?
02:10:05
◼
►
- Any, no, I mean, fundamentally, you know,
02:10:08
◼
►
I think these cameras are all really good now.
02:10:10
◼
►
It's down to processing.
02:10:12
◼
►
I will say this one thing, so I was talking about
02:10:14
◼
►
these old cameras, so I was taking macro photos
02:10:16
◼
►
of the sub-pixels to see if it was worth
02:10:19
◼
►
shooting a video of.
02:10:20
◼
►
I've got this ancient Canon, no, it's a,
02:10:23
◼
►
I've got this ancient Nikon D7500 with my favorite lens
02:10:26
◼
►
of all time, which is a 40 millimeter,
02:10:28
◼
►
they call it a micro lens, and I love it,
02:10:30
◼
►
and this, whatever, so I was sitting there,
02:10:32
◼
►
and my kid's there, and I just took a photo
02:10:34
◼
►
of my friend and my kid with my ancient D7500,
02:10:39
◼
►
'cause I was taking photos of the screen,
02:10:41
◼
►
and I looked at it, and I was like, oh, these photos
02:10:43
◼
►
are still vastly superior to cell phone photos,
02:10:46
◼
►
and so there's still a long way to go here.
02:10:48
◼
►
Really nice glass on a dedicated camera with a big sensor,
02:10:53
◼
►
it'll just kill these smartphones every day.
02:10:56
◼
►
I still use my smartphone a thousand times more,
02:10:59
◼
►
but I think we often forget that there's yet
02:11:02
◼
►
a very long road to travel.
02:11:04
◼
►
- My son Jonas is a freshman in college,
02:11:06
◼
►
we just took him there, and so it's time
02:11:09
◼
►
for family memories, and so we're,
02:11:11
◼
►
it's the end of the summer, looking at lots of old photos,
02:11:15
◼
►
and paying more attention to the photo widget in iOS
02:11:17
◼
►
that surfaces old photos, and instead of just,
02:11:20
◼
►
hey, that's one cool photo, letting me open it
02:11:23
◼
►
and go through 18, 17, 16 year old photos.
02:11:27
◼
►
Back then, in 2004, five, six, I was shooting
02:11:32
◼
►
35 millimeter film with a Canon,
02:11:36
◼
►
mostly with a 50 millimeter F1.4,
02:11:39
◼
►
the famous Canon 50 millimeter prime,
02:11:42
◼
►
and holy hell, looking at those photos,
02:11:46
◼
►
are they, they're so frickin' good.
02:11:49
◼
►
Oh my god, they are so buttery bokeh, right?
02:11:56
◼
►
Like, oh shit, that's bokeh.
02:12:00
◼
►
Oh, that's texture, it's, yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
02:12:04
◼
►
And that's talking shooting onto film.
02:12:06
◼
►
And again, film is beautiful, I'm not complaining,
02:12:08
◼
►
but we tend to think that, oh, tech, tech, tech,
02:12:11
◼
►
computational photography, but yeah, there's so far to go.
02:12:15
◼
►
I had one more thing about, oh, here's one more thing
02:12:17
◼
►
about the camera, I didn't mention it in my review,
02:12:19
◼
►
'cause again, I didn't do a camera review,
02:12:21
◼
►
I'll bet other people mentioned it.
02:12:23
◼
►
One thing I noticed though with this new main camera,
02:12:26
◼
►
with a bigger sensor, and because the sensor is bigger,
02:12:30
◼
►
a very different lens, the minimum focal distance
02:12:35
◼
►
of the main camera has grown by a couple of inches.
02:12:39
◼
►
So-- - Yeah, and then it drops you
02:12:40
◼
►
into that macro mode, it's crazy.
02:12:41
◼
►
- Right, so there's, this thing they added last year,
02:12:46
◼
►
anybody who has a 13 Pro knows what I'm talking about,
02:12:48
◼
►
but when they added this macro mode,
02:12:50
◼
►
and you're in 1x mode, when you go to macro mode,
02:12:53
◼
►
it actually uses the ultra wide 0.5x,
02:12:56
◼
►
'cause that's the lens that can focus at like two centimeters
02:13:00
◼
►
and the transition is weird, but it kicks in way,
02:13:05
◼
►
way further away from the subject now.
02:13:09
◼
►
And it's, this is not good overall,
02:13:12
◼
►
but there's, I understand the physics
02:13:14
◼
►
of focal lengths and distances, but it's,
02:13:17
◼
►
it is a trade-off in the other direction for having this,
02:13:21
◼
►
overall better main camera, but macro,
02:13:25
◼
►
the macro transition, not that macro's worse,
02:13:28
◼
►
macro's probably better 'cause it seems like the ultra wide
02:13:30
◼
►
is actually nicely, subtly improved this year,
02:13:33
◼
►
but the transition, people are gonna notice that.
02:13:36
◼
►
- Do you, and it's also the transition I think
02:13:38
◼
►
is like half an inch too aggressive.
02:13:40
◼
►
- Yeah, I think so too, yeah, there's something--
02:13:42
◼
►
- 'Cause I have the indicator in settings,
02:13:45
◼
►
you can do it so you can turn it off,
02:13:47
◼
►
and it's like, oh, I don't need this right now.
02:13:48
◼
►
- Yeah, that's another one where I would recommend
02:13:51
◼
►
people go into settings, scroll, scroll, scroll,
02:13:54
◼
►
scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll to camera
02:13:57
◼
►
and turn on the thing that gives you manual macro control.
02:14:01
◼
►
I think this is one of those things
02:14:03
◼
►
where Apple wants it to be invisible
02:14:05
◼
►
and they want you to think that magically
02:14:07
◼
►
the 1X camera can just focus two centimeters away
02:14:10
◼
►
and so that's why they don't put the little flower
02:14:13
◼
►
macro thing up on the screen by default.
02:14:16
◼
►
And in fact, when they shipped the 13 Pros last year,
02:14:18
◼
►
they didn't even have it.
02:14:19
◼
►
They had to add that into the camera app later
02:14:22
◼
►
because everybody was complaining about it.
02:14:24
◼
►
But they're so obsessed with making,
02:14:25
◼
►
thinking that they can make it seem like magic,
02:14:28
◼
►
but that's something that does not look,
02:14:29
◼
►
that transition does not look like magic.
02:14:32
◼
►
And when you really don't want macro, it's maddening,
02:14:35
◼
►
but you can actually go into settings
02:14:37
◼
►
and get a little button that'll show up on screen
02:14:39
◼
►
when macro kicks in and tap it and turn it off
02:14:42
◼
►
and then you'll get what you want.
02:14:44
◼
►
Here's a little thing, just a side note.
02:14:46
◼
►
I would talk about it, I don't wanna spend a lot of time
02:14:48
◼
►
on the SIM card thing.
02:14:49
◼
►
I think we both sort of agreed
02:14:50
◼
►
that they made the right move for consumers in the US
02:14:52
◼
►
and yeah, it's probably old, but it sucks for us.
02:14:55
◼
►
But did you use, the phones they gave us
02:14:58
◼
►
because for the last couple of years,
02:15:00
◼
►
they've just been giving me at least review unit phones
02:15:03
◼
►
that don't even have a SIM card,
02:15:04
◼
►
don't have like a testing paid by Apple, Verizon account,
02:15:08
◼
►
just unlocked phones with no SIM card
02:15:10
◼
►
and they just assume I'm gonna put my SIM card in them.
02:15:13
◼
►
Well, you can't do that now.
02:15:14
◼
►
So all the three phones I got from Apple
02:15:17
◼
►
had eSIMs already set up.
02:15:20
◼
►
- No, mine didn't.
02:15:21
◼
►
Or maybe there was a QR code in the box.
02:15:23
◼
►
- No, I didn't even have a QR code.
02:15:25
◼
►
They were just already, my iPhone boxes were not sealed.
02:15:29
◼
►
It looked like they were,
02:15:30
◼
►
but there was no seal to open the box,
02:15:32
◼
►
but the phone still had the sticker on the front
02:15:35
◼
►
and I got to peel it off and everything.
02:15:37
◼
►
But I already had like three phones
02:15:40
◼
►
with three different phone numbers on eSIMs on the phones.
02:15:43
◼
►
And I did transfer my main account
02:15:47
◼
►
to the one I spent the week with
02:15:48
◼
►
and still am spending time with.
02:15:50
◼
►
Because they did that for me, I got to test dual SIM support.
02:15:55
◼
►
- I didn't get that.
02:15:57
◼
►
Maybe our actual reviewers like Alison got it.
02:16:00
◼
►
I just got the Pro Max.
02:16:02
◼
►
That was the only phone I had.
02:16:03
◼
►
She has all of them.
02:16:04
◼
►
But I have an AT&T account, I have a Google Fi account.
02:16:06
◼
►
So I actually, I just did my AT&T account
02:16:08
◼
►
for my old phone over Bluetooth, which is seamless.
02:16:11
◼
►
And then I added my Google Fi account on the web,
02:16:13
◼
►
which is actually like kind of great.
02:16:16
◼
►
Like Google Fi's weird and you gotta like go in
02:16:18
◼
►
and add all these like APN numbers and stuff at the end.
02:16:20
◼
►
But the actual like move the SIM over
02:16:24
◼
►
is you just go to a page with a QR code
02:16:27
◼
►
and you just like point the phone.
02:16:28
◼
►
I didn't even get the QR code all the way in the frame.
02:16:31
◼
►
We were trying to shoot it on video
02:16:33
◼
►
and I was like, here I go.
02:16:35
◼
►
And I got like halfway up and I was like,
02:16:37
◼
►
And back it was like, well, what the fuck?
02:16:39
◼
►
Like, that's it.
02:16:41
◼
►
Like it's pretty seamless.
02:16:43
◼
►
- But here's my complaint.
02:16:44
◼
►
My complaint is when you have dual SIMs activated,
02:16:47
◼
►
the icon for the bars for the signal strength,
02:16:52
◼
►
they look like exclamation marks.
02:16:54
◼
►
- They kinda do.
02:16:56
◼
►
- And so I just assumed, and I noticed it only after,
02:17:01
◼
►
it was like a couple of days in of reviewing it
02:17:03
◼
►
before I reset the phone and restored the other way
02:17:06
◼
►
device to device instead of iCloud.
02:17:08
◼
►
I like wiped the phone and restored again.
02:17:09
◼
►
And I was like, this time I'll do it for real.
02:17:11
◼
►
And they're like, do you wanna move your existing SIM card
02:17:14
◼
►
from this device to device transfer over?
02:17:16
◼
►
I was like, yes.
02:17:18
◼
►
And they're like, this will take a couple of minutes.
02:17:20
◼
►
And of course it takes a couple of minutes
02:17:22
◼
►
'cause anytime you deal with a carrier,
02:17:23
◼
►
it's whatever activation means, God only knows.
02:17:27
◼
►
But two minutes later they said success and it worked.
02:17:30
◼
►
But I looked at the status bar and it's these bars
02:17:33
◼
►
and they put the secondary SIM as like a little layer
02:17:36
◼
►
beneath, but they look like the dots on exclamation marks.
02:17:39
◼
►
And I assumed they were and that something was wrong.
02:17:42
◼
►
And it was trying to tell me something's wrong.
02:17:44
◼
►
'Cause I'd never done an eSIM before.
02:17:46
◼
►
I'd never done a transfer.
02:17:47
◼
►
I thought they were turned my bars into exclamation marks
02:17:50
◼
►
as a warning that something was wrong.
02:17:53
◼
►
And I spent five minutes trying to figure out
02:17:55
◼
►
what was wrong 'cause it seemed to be working
02:17:58
◼
►
until I figured out, oh, that's how they're showing me
02:18:00
◼
►
I have dual SIMs.
02:18:01
◼
►
They just made them look like exclamation marks.
02:18:04
◼
►
- Yeah, and you can't, speaking of widgets,
02:18:06
◼
►
like you bring down control center and then you're like,
02:18:09
◼
►
oh, I got two carriers here.
02:18:11
◼
►
Maybe I wanna do something with them
02:18:12
◼
►
and you tap on it and nothing happens.
02:18:15
◼
►
- Like it's a very wonky thing to have two SIM cards
02:18:18
◼
►
in your phone.
02:18:19
◼
►
Like it's cool.
02:18:21
◼
►
Like if you have a business line and a personal line,
02:18:23
◼
►
it makes a lot of sense.
02:18:24
◼
►
You can like take the calls in different ways.
02:18:27
◼
►
The one thing I wanna do the most of all
02:18:30
◼
►
is switch from one data plan to the other, right?
02:18:35
◼
►
'Cause Google Fi is basically T-Mobile and I have AT&T
02:18:37
◼
►
and like T-Mobile's just faster than AT&T in New York City.
02:18:42
◼
►
So like I should just switch it over.
02:18:44
◼
►
Even in Google Fi is LTE.
02:18:46
◼
►
So T-Mobile LTE is faster than AT&T 5G in New York City.
02:18:49
◼
►
And you have to like dive into settings and do it
02:18:50
◼
►
or set it to auto and you have no idea what's gonna happen.
02:18:52
◼
►
- Things you'll never get the company
02:18:54
◼
►
that makes any cell phone to tell you
02:18:56
◼
►
is how often LTE is better than 5G
02:18:58
◼
►
in real world situations.
02:19:01
◼
►
- Oh, I basically turn 5G off on my phone.
02:19:06
◼
►
It doesn't do anything.
02:19:07
◼
►
I mean, who needs?
02:19:08
◼
►
And when you do get the ultra wide
02:19:09
◼
►
and it's three gigabytes per second download,
02:19:12
◼
►
which is incredibly impressive technically,
02:19:14
◼
►
what the hell are you doing that needs
02:19:15
◼
►
three gigabytes per second download to a phone?
02:19:18
◼
►
- Yeah, I did hear from some readers after it
02:19:21
◼
►
'cause I was very mean to 5G in my review.
02:19:23
◼
►
I got some emails from people who were like,
02:19:24
◼
►
"Look, I live in the middle of nowhere
02:19:26
◼
►
"and I've actually, they put up a mid band 5G tower here
02:19:31
◼
►
"and now my Verizon 5G at my house
02:19:33
◼
►
"is faster than my cable internet."
02:19:35
◼
►
- Yeah, that's great.
02:19:36
◼
►
- It's like that rules, like I'm super down with that.
02:19:38
◼
►
That's like four people in the country.
02:19:40
◼
►
- It was the same thing with the 3G to LTE transition.
02:19:43
◼
►
Here in Philly, I know going to New York,
02:19:45
◼
►
it actually is better to be on the older one
02:19:47
◼
►
'cause that's the one that had the build out
02:19:49
◼
►
and finally got signal strength
02:19:50
◼
►
to go into buildings and stuff.
02:19:52
◼
►
And it's like the practical beats,
02:19:53
◼
►
the theoretical every time.
02:19:56
◼
►
- Yeah, and it's also,
02:19:58
◼
►
the carriers sell everybody 5G phones.
02:20:00
◼
►
The 5G network is like immediately overloaded
02:20:02
◼
►
and the LTE network is not.
02:20:04
◼
►
- It'll be, 5G's gonna be fantastic
02:20:06
◼
►
once they start talking to us about 6G.
02:20:09
◼
►
- Yeah, that's about right.
02:20:10
◼
►
- Which is always the case.
02:20:11
◼
►
Let me take a break here and thank our third
02:20:13
◼
►
and final sponsor, our good friends at HulloPillow,
02:20:18
◼
►
This, have you ever tried,
02:20:19
◼
►
what a HulloPillow is is a buckwheat pillow.
02:20:23
◼
►
They are totally different than the fluffy soft pillows
02:20:25
◼
►
that most of us are used to.
02:20:28
◼
►
They're sort of more like a bean bag
02:20:30
◼
►
and they're actually quite heavy.
02:20:32
◼
►
That sounds, if you're like me,
02:20:34
◼
►
before I ever heard of HulloPillow,
02:20:35
◼
►
sounds like the most ridiculous thing in the world
02:20:38
◼
►
that like pillowy actually means soft and fluffy
02:20:41
◼
►
in US English.
02:20:43
◼
►
But a HulloPillow is not like that at all.
02:20:45
◼
►
But guess what?
02:20:46
◼
►
All over the world,
02:20:47
◼
►
there's all sorts of places where pillows like this
02:20:51
◼
►
are normal and have been used for a long time.
02:20:54
◼
►
And instead of being filled with feathers or foam,
02:20:57
◼
►
it's filled with buckwheat and it tends to breathe better.
02:21:02
◼
►
And like one of the aspects of it is like
02:21:05
◼
►
if you're the sort of person who like halfway
02:21:06
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through sleeping, you have to flip your pillow over
02:21:08
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to get a cool side 'cause the side you've been sleeping on
02:21:11
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Buckwheat pillows aren't like that.
02:21:13
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They stay cool all night long.
02:21:15
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And because they are sort of structured
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because of the beans, they support your head and neck.
02:21:20
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And so again, if you're the sort of person
02:21:22
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who always tries to sleep on two pillows
02:21:24
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to get it propped up, one buckwheat HulloPillow
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is almost certainly all you need and it'll stay upright
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and give you all the support you need all night long.
02:21:33
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My family absolutely loves them.
02:21:36
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This was actually part of the problem of packing up a thing
02:21:39
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to take a kid to college is you really start running
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out of space and you run out of weight
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and taking a heavier HulloPillow other than a pillow
02:21:47
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that could be like vacuum sealed into a small bag.
02:21:50
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Took up extra space that in theory we didn't need
02:21:52
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but trying to convince my son that he wasn't gonna have
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his HulloPillow was a no-go.
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That's how much our family loves them.
02:21:58
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And they've got, they're made in the USA,
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right here in the USA with quality construction,
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great materials, certified organic cotton
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that is sewn for durability.
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And again, if you're skeptical, if you're like,
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this sounds crazy, this does not sound like any pillow
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I've ever tried, you get to sleep on it for 60 nights,
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two months, and if it's not for you,
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you can just ship it back and they will give you
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a full refund, no questions asked.
02:22:23
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Go to HulloPillow, H-U-L-L-O P-I-L-L-O-W.
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HulloPillow.com/thetalkshow.
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If you try more than one pillow, you get a discount
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of up to 20 bucks per pillow depending on the size.
02:22:39
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And if you don't like either of them,
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you can send them both back.
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So try two, you get a discount of up to 20 bucks
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And 1% of all their profits are donated
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And you can even give the gift of better sleep.
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It is a great gift for your friends and family.
02:22:57
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Go to HulloPillow.com/thetalkshow.
02:23:00
◼
►
Quick bonus before we talk The Verge,
02:23:03
◼
►
we could talk about the other stuff
02:23:04
◼
►
that was announced at the event.
02:23:07
◼
►
There's the Apple Watch Series 8,
02:23:08
◼
►
which I think is the most boring year-over-year update ever.
02:23:13
◼
►
- Yeah, there's not a lot there.
02:23:14
◼
►
- Crash detection and the temperature sensor,
02:23:17
◼
►
which is at the moment really only used,
02:23:19
◼
►
and again, not to underplay it,
02:23:21
◼
►
it sounds like a great feature for people
02:23:23
◼
►
who are trying to get pregnant
02:23:24
◼
►
for the retrospective ovulation detection,
02:23:28
◼
►
but otherwise doesn't seem to really do much.
02:23:32
◼
►
- Yeah, I think Apple's in a weird spot
02:23:33
◼
►
where they haven't gotten the things they would like
02:23:35
◼
►
to get FDA approved yet.
02:23:37
◼
►
So yeah, there's some apps and devices
02:23:39
◼
►
that can predict, not just retrospectively.
02:23:42
◼
►
So yeah, Apple needs to get there.
02:23:43
◼
►
But yeah, that one to me, I think Victoria's review,
02:23:47
◼
►
is like if you have an Apple Watch Series 3 by this one,
02:23:48
◼
►
everything else you're gonna get with watchOS.
02:23:51
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
02:23:52
◼
►
And that's just the nature of devices, right?
02:23:54
◼
►
You have these go-go years where there's low-hanging fruit
02:23:57
◼
►
and you get amazing year-over-year improvements,
02:24:00
◼
►
but calling it the Series 8, it's great.
02:24:03
◼
►
Now, it's one thing I hate about the iPhone,
02:24:05
◼
►
where they've had all those years
02:24:06
◼
►
where they just added an S,
02:24:08
◼
►
and so the iPhone 14 is not the 14th iPhone, right?
02:24:14
◼
►
You have, I guess the A Series chips have the right number.
02:24:18
◼
►
Like the A16 is the right number, maybe, I don't know.
02:24:22
◼
►
But at least Series 8, the Apple Watch,
02:24:24
◼
►
I don't have much to say about it.
02:24:25
◼
►
But the other watch, wow.
02:24:28
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, we looked at it at the hands-on.
02:24:32
◼
►
The one thing I did that made everybody mad
02:24:34
◼
►
was I immediately tried to put my third-party band on it.
02:24:36
◼
►
And I can confirm it works.
02:24:38
◼
►
Third-party bands are a little weird.
02:24:39
◼
►
But yeah, they've done it right.
02:24:41
◼
►
The thing that gets me that I am eager to see,
02:24:44
◼
►
they've added all the modes for the extreme sports,
02:24:48
◼
►
but it's just a huge display, right?
02:24:50
◼
►
And they haven't really changed WatchOS
02:24:55
◼
►
to take advantage of this bigger display.
02:24:58
◼
►
Like, it's just bigger.
02:24:59
◼
►
And I don't know, we'll see.
02:25:02
◼
►
- It seems in the way that,
02:25:04
◼
►
and I know that they've tweaked the numbers scrupulously
02:25:09
◼
►
over the years to the millimeter,
02:25:10
◼
►
where it was originally 38 and 42,
02:25:13
◼
►
and then 40 and 44, and now 41 and 45.
02:25:17
◼
►
But there've been two sizes
02:25:19
◼
►
of the regular Series Apple Watches,
02:25:21
◼
►
the smaller one and the bigger one.
02:25:24
◼
►
And they've always shown the same UI scaled,
02:25:28
◼
►
and that has always seemed appropriate, right?
02:25:31
◼
►
It's just smaller fonts, smaller hands,
02:25:33
◼
►
smaller details for a smaller watch.
02:25:36
◼
►
And that has always seemed to me appropriate.
02:25:40
◼
►
My wife uses a smaller one, I use the bigger one.
02:25:43
◼
►
And I've played around with both, and that's always seemed fine.
02:25:45
◼
►
This one, the fact that almost everything they show
02:25:49
◼
►
is really just the same thing scaled up even bigger
02:25:52
◼
►
seems, from my first impressions, to be limited, right?
02:25:57
◼
►
Like, if this were the only Apple Watch,
02:26:01
◼
►
and it were this size,
02:26:03
◼
►
wouldn't there be the ability to use it
02:26:06
◼
►
more like a little mini Dick Tracy computer on your wrist?
02:26:09
◼
►
- Yeah, we have a great start on our site
02:26:11
◼
►
from The Vergecast, a director of audio production,
02:26:13
◼
►
Andrew Murray now.
02:26:14
◼
►
He's like, "Just let me watch TV on this thing."
02:26:16
◼
►
- It, from the hands-on area,
02:26:18
◼
►
it looks like you could credibly watch video on it, honestly.
02:26:22
◼
►
- Like, why not let me just run YouTube TV
02:26:26
◼
►
or the Apple TV app on it?
02:26:27
◼
►
- Well, and I know that if I could just stream
02:26:30
◼
►
a Packers game to it, I'd be great.
02:26:32
◼
►
- Yeah, the aspect ratio of the Apple Watch
02:26:34
◼
►
isn't quite like a phone, but it is vertical,
02:26:38
◼
►
and so much video today, especially short-form video.
02:26:41
◼
►
All the short-form video. - Instagram reels
02:26:42
◼
►
on the Apple Watch, here we go.
02:26:44
◼
►
- Yeah, so all the short-form video,
02:26:47
◼
►
in fact, even this morning, I just read a story
02:26:49
◼
►
on The Verge about how the growth
02:26:52
◼
►
in the top 50 channels on YouTube
02:26:54
◼
►
are all the growing areas of the top channels on YouTube
02:26:58
◼
►
are in the short YouTube shorts.
02:27:01
◼
►
- Yeah, boy, you could credibly watch that on this watch.
02:27:05
◼
►
- Destroy the battery.
02:27:07
◼
►
- Well, but it has a bigger battery.
02:27:10
◼
►
They say it's like double the battery life,
02:27:12
◼
►
so why not let us do those things,
02:27:13
◼
►
and even if it turns this watch into half the battery life
02:27:18
◼
►
that they're promising, 'cause you're dicking around
02:27:20
◼
►
watching video on it all day,
02:27:21
◼
►
you'd still get the one-day battery life
02:27:24
◼
►
that the other Apple Watches have always promised.
02:27:27
◼
►
The other thing that really struck me about,
02:27:30
◼
►
there's the size, the screen is surprisingly bigger to me
02:27:35
◼
►
than the other ones, and the fact that it's perfectly flat
02:27:41
◼
►
is oddly surprising difference to me.
02:27:45
◼
►
- I thought the edge would be taller.
02:27:48
◼
►
- I thought so too, and in fact,
02:27:50
◼
►
I didn't even think it was raised at all at first
02:27:53
◼
►
until one of the Apple BlueShirt people
02:27:55
◼
►
in the hands-on area said, "No, no, it is raised,"
02:27:58
◼
►
and then I used my fingernail, and I could say,
02:28:00
◼
►
"Oh yeah, it is," but it doesn't seem raised enough
02:28:03
◼
►
to be protective in the way that I thought it would be
02:28:06
◼
►
for rock climbing.
02:28:07
◼
►
- Yeah, in the way that they're saying it is.
02:28:10
◼
►
I wonder if there's cases for a regular Apple Watch.
02:28:12
◼
►
I see 'em all the time.
02:28:13
◼
►
- I feel bad for the people who wear them.
02:28:14
◼
►
- The idea of putting a case on this one is ridiculous.
02:28:17
◼
►
- I think people are going to put it in a case though.
02:28:20
◼
►
I really do, and it's like somehow Apple's like,
02:28:23
◼
►
ah, we just can't bring ourselves to really raise the ridge,
02:28:27
◼
►
and I guess the other thing too
02:28:28
◼
►
is that they do want this one big ultra watch
02:28:32
◼
►
to appeal both to the people who actually want to take it
02:28:37
◼
►
on extreme adventures and the people
02:28:41
◼
►
who aren't gonna do anything extreme with it at all
02:28:43
◼
►
but just like the look and idea
02:28:45
◼
►
of this type of big chunky watch,
02:28:49
◼
►
but in that case, you don't really want it,
02:28:51
◼
►
but when you look, and I've spent the week
02:28:53
◼
►
looking at lots of other Garmins and G-shocks,
02:28:56
◼
►
and Coros apparently is really the brand,
02:28:59
◼
►
I know everybody, I talk about Garmin all the time,
02:29:02
◼
►
but Coros apparently is the brand
02:29:04
◼
►
that really might be their number one competitor
02:29:06
◼
►
for this action space, but if you look
02:29:08
◼
►
at how raised the bezel is around those watches,
02:29:11
◼
►
it's really protective.
02:29:13
◼
►
I always go back famously.
02:29:15
◼
►
You're probably too young.
02:29:16
◼
►
I know you and Ben are about the same age,
02:29:19
◼
►
just seven or eight years younger than me,
02:29:20
◼
►
but I remember when the first Casio G-shocks came out,
02:29:24
◼
►
and it was like, I don't know, 81, 82, 83,
02:29:28
◼
►
somewhere around there, and of course,
02:29:29
◼
►
they put the ads all over sports on TV,
02:29:32
◼
►
so I saw the ad over and over and over again
02:29:35
◼
►
watching sports as a kid, and it was,
02:29:37
◼
►
they wrapped the G-shock around a hockey puck
02:29:40
◼
►
and had a hockey player slap shot it into the goal
02:29:43
◼
►
or into the goalie's mitt and then show
02:29:46
◼
►
that the watch was perfectly fine after being slapshotted.
02:29:50
◼
►
This does not look to me like you'd want to do that
02:29:52
◼
►
with this watch.
02:29:53
◼
►
No, not even a little bit.
02:29:54
◼
►
I mean, just 'cause, yeah, G-shock's very plastic.
02:29:58
◼
►
It was a fantastic, it's a commercial
02:30:01
◼
►
that was indelible to me, 'cause I also thought
02:30:03
◼
►
digital watches were super cool when I was a kid,
02:30:05
◼
►
and I was allowed to buy a $22 Casio,
02:30:08
◼
►
and it was the coolest thing in the world.
02:30:09
◼
►
One of my favorite things as a kid
02:30:11
◼
►
was a 20-something dollar Casio digital watch.
02:30:14
◼
►
I wanted the G-shock, though, which was, I don't know,
02:30:17
◼
►
100 bucks, and rightly so, aren't gonna buy a kid
02:30:20
◼
►
a $100 watch, but I wanted it so bad,
02:30:22
◼
►
'cause that seemed so cool, and it's like
02:30:24
◼
►
the Volvo being driven off a building.
02:30:26
◼
►
It's like a hockey slap shot of a watch
02:30:31
◼
►
really seemed like, man, that's a demo.
02:30:33
◼
►
I'm not saying that Apple should've
02:30:35
◼
►
or that they botched it.
02:30:36
◼
►
It's just not quite what I was expecting.
02:30:38
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of,
02:30:41
◼
►
again, this is an early adopter special.
02:30:45
◼
►
I think people are gonna be excited about it,
02:30:47
◼
►
and I think we're a year away from knowing
02:30:49
◼
►
how it's gonna work.
02:30:50
◼
►
- I mean, the one app, which is very unlike Apple
02:30:53
◼
►
to partner with a third party for a core capability
02:30:55
◼
►
that they're advertising, but they're partnering
02:30:57
◼
►
with this company to make Oceanic Plus,
02:30:59
◼
►
the scuba diving app.
02:31:00
◼
►
It's not out yet.
02:31:02
◼
►
Apple's dependent on a third party to ship an app
02:31:05
◼
►
to make its own diving band worth more.
02:31:09
◼
►
- I spent a surprise, I didn't know that it wasn't out yet,
02:31:11
◼
►
and while writing my review, I spent a surprising amount
02:31:14
◼
►
of time trying to find that app,
02:31:16
◼
►
'cause I thought it would be very easy to find.
02:31:19
◼
►
- No, we'll see.
02:31:21
◼
►
So there's a lot of this where it's,
02:31:23
◼
►
what does a year of development, now that people have it
02:31:26
◼
►
and their expectations will be real, look like?
02:31:29
◼
►
'Cause my early impression is, well, I'm gonna buy
02:31:33
◼
►
the shit out of this watch, it looks cool as hell.
02:31:35
◼
►
I'm a sucker.
02:31:37
◼
►
And I'm excited to have a longer battery life,
02:31:39
◼
►
and I love a big screen.
02:31:40
◼
►
- And you like a big, chunky watch, too.
02:31:42
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm a big dude, a big, chunky watch works for me.
02:31:46
◼
►
And it's like, is it gonna do any,
02:31:47
◼
►
am I gonna look at two factor codes?
02:31:49
◼
►
That's what I do with my watch.
02:31:51
◼
►
They're just gonna be huge now.
02:31:52
◼
►
- Well, you know what I love doing with my watch
02:31:53
◼
►
is having my Mac when I'm at my desk
02:31:55
◼
►
and I don't have touch ID,
02:31:56
◼
►
'cause I use a standalone keyboard.
02:31:58
◼
►
I love just having my Mac unlock.
02:32:00
◼
►
That's my main Apple Watch use.
02:32:02
◼
►
You know what else?
02:32:02
◼
►
I'm gonna steal this from my friend, Austin Mann.
02:32:04
◼
►
I know he has a review out with the phone.
02:32:06
◼
►
I think he was in the Highlands of Scotland.
02:32:08
◼
►
I haven't looked at it yet as a record,
02:32:10
◼
►
but Austin gave me this idea at the hands-on area.
02:32:13
◼
►
This is, again, the utility of bouncing into people
02:32:16
◼
►
in the hands-on area after these keynotes,
02:32:19
◼
►
is the Apple Watch Ultra,
02:32:21
◼
►
one of the things it does that the other watches don't do
02:32:23
◼
►
is you can turn the digital crown
02:32:25
◼
►
and it turns the display into a,
02:32:28
◼
►
no matter which watch face you're wearing,
02:32:29
◼
►
it goes black and the only pixels are red
02:32:33
◼
►
because that's the ones that disrupt your retinas the least
02:32:37
◼
►
for nighttime viewing.
02:32:38
◼
►
And Austin, of course, thought,
02:32:41
◼
►
I wish I had that mode for the camera on the phone.
02:32:45
◼
►
And it's like, oh, wouldn't that be cool, right?
02:32:48
◼
►
So they do all this night mode stuff with the camera.
02:32:50
◼
►
Wouldn't it be great if you could put the iPhone camera
02:32:52
◼
►
into red pixels on a black background mode?
02:32:55
◼
►
- That is really cool.
02:32:56
◼
►
I have that mode in,
02:32:57
◼
►
I don't remember what stargazing app I have,
02:32:59
◼
►
but I have one of those cool iPhone apps
02:33:01
◼
►
that you point at the sky and it tells you
02:33:02
◼
►
where the stars are and finds the constellations for you.
02:33:05
◼
►
And that has a red mode and it's actually super sick.
02:33:08
◼
►
- AirPods Pro, I don't know what to say about them.
02:33:10
◼
►
They're not out yet, but it seems like a great idea.
02:33:12
◼
►
It's one of my favorite Apple products.
02:33:14
◼
►
The Findable case and Findable earbuds
02:33:16
◼
►
seems like a great idea.
02:33:17
◼
►
I tend not to lose mine, but when I do,
02:33:19
◼
►
every time I'm annoyed,
02:33:20
◼
►
'cause I know how much stuff is Findable
02:33:23
◼
►
in Apple's ecosystem now,
02:33:25
◼
►
and the one thing I tend to misplace is not,
02:33:28
◼
►
well, problem solved.
02:33:29
◼
►
I will upgrade just for the Findability.
02:33:32
◼
►
- Oh, wow, I did a round of questions about
02:33:35
◼
►
while you're saying they have better audio quality,
02:33:37
◼
►
like is it still Bluetooth?
02:33:39
◼
►
Do you upgrade?
02:33:40
◼
►
Are you doing some proprietary stuff with more bandwidth?
02:33:43
◼
►
It's still Bluetooth, apparently.
02:33:44
◼
►
- I think that-- - They're doing
02:33:46
◼
►
codec improvements.
02:33:47
◼
►
- Yeah, I don't ask about that,
02:33:48
◼
►
'cause number one, my ears aren't great.
02:33:50
◼
►
I've never really owned a pair of headphones
02:33:52
◼
►
that I've really thought sounded bad,
02:33:54
◼
►
and it's like as picky as I, I get it.
02:33:56
◼
►
It's me, it's me, it's my ears, it's my taste,
02:33:59
◼
►
because I'm the guy who really, really hates
02:34:01
◼
►
and gets angry and blogs about the use of Arial
02:34:05
◼
►
instead of Helvetica, knowing that 99% of people
02:34:09
◼
►
cannot tell the difference between Arial and Helvetica.
02:34:12
◼
►
So I get it, that other people can do,
02:34:14
◼
►
what I can do with fonts,
02:34:16
◼
►
other people can do with headphones.
02:34:17
◼
►
I get it, I just don't, so I don't really care about that.
02:34:21
◼
►
And I think uncompressed audio is a scam.
02:34:25
◼
►
But, I mean, Apple definitely thinks that.
02:34:28
◼
►
- Yeah, but I think it's a scam,
02:34:30
◼
►
especially if you're playing it in earbuds,
02:34:32
◼
►
not big, open-eared, over-the-head cans.
02:34:36
◼
►
So I don't care, I don't care that the AirPods
02:34:39
◼
►
don't support lossless audio, but I guess some people do.
02:34:44
◼
►
- Yeah, and I think all this facial audio stuff
02:34:46
◼
►
just makes no sense to me.
02:34:47
◼
►
- I do think it's, speaking from things
02:34:50
◼
►
that we could say from being there,
02:34:52
◼
►
it's preposterous to me how many hundreds of pairs
02:34:55
◼
►
of AirPods Pro they had in the hands-on area
02:34:58
◼
►
for us to try. - Yes, it was amazing.
02:35:00
◼
►
There are people with boxes.
02:35:02
◼
►
- Just boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes of them.
02:35:05
◼
►
And so, and they encourage you, they're begging you,
02:35:09
◼
►
try them, please, and I'm like, ah,
02:35:10
◼
►
and they're like, they're fresh, nobody's ever worn them.
02:35:13
◼
►
And then you put 'em on and you try them,
02:35:16
◼
►
and they're all, I don't even know how they do it,
02:35:18
◼
►
they're all pre-paired to somebody's phone,
02:35:20
◼
►
and they can play some music for you,
02:35:23
◼
►
and you're like, yeah, this is great,
02:35:25
◼
►
and I played with the volume, and it seems like
02:35:27
◼
►
that touch swiping for volume up, volume down
02:35:30
◼
►
seems pretty cool.
02:35:31
◼
►
I like the way that only the ear you swipe on
02:35:34
◼
►
gets the little bip bip bip as you go up and down.
02:35:37
◼
►
So if you swipe on your right ear,
02:35:39
◼
►
it's your right earbud only that makes the little bip.
02:35:42
◼
►
And then you take 'em off and you hand them back
02:35:44
◼
►
to the nice person, and somebody else puts 'em
02:35:46
◼
►
in a different case and they take 'em away.
02:35:50
◼
►
- Presumably to be cleaned.
02:35:51
◼
►
- I didn't ask, I did not even ask,
02:35:53
◼
►
but they emphasized that all the ones
02:35:55
◼
►
that they were letting us try were not cleaned,
02:35:58
◼
►
they were all factory fresh and had never touched human ears.
02:36:02
◼
►
Now, did they throw them all away?
02:36:04
◼
►
I sure hope not, because somebody would buy them, right,
02:36:07
◼
►
after cleaning a spritz with some alcohol,
02:36:11
◼
►
and who wouldn't wanna buy worn for 30 second AirPods Pro?
02:36:15
◼
►
I don't know, I would love to know
02:36:16
◼
►
what the hell they did with them,
02:36:17
◼
►
but they were swearing up and down that every single pair,
02:36:22
◼
►
and there were hundreds and hundreds of people there,
02:36:24
◼
►
and they're encouraging everybody to try it.
02:36:26
◼
►
It's ridiculous.
02:36:27
◼
►
And of course the trays were custom designed.
02:36:32
◼
►
They were, I mean, it was, I wish I had had more time
02:36:35
◼
►
to just be like, I'm sure I'm all right about this.
02:36:37
◼
►
- All right.
02:36:38
◼
►
We gotta talk Verge redesign.
02:36:41
◼
►
- Let's do it.
02:36:41
◼
►
How many font criticisms do you have?
02:36:43
◼
►
- (sighs) I'm gonna say this,
02:36:45
◼
►
because of how busy I've been the last week.
02:36:47
◼
►
Now, you were nice enough, you again, hands on time,
02:36:50
◼
►
friends, you showed it to me last week in the hands on area.
02:36:55
◼
►
- On a phone, mind you.
02:36:56
◼
►
- Well, is it phone, here's my first question for you.
02:36:59
◼
►
Was the phone the first target of the Verge redesign?
02:37:03
◼
►
- Oh, easily, yeah, I think if you worked
02:37:06
◼
►
at a large media company, everyone is deeply aware
02:37:10
◼
►
of the statistics of mobile users versus desktop users.
02:37:12
◼
►
The Verge is an outlier, right?
02:37:14
◼
►
So we are, I think our numbers are basically 70% mobile,
02:37:18
◼
►
25% desktop, 5% tablet, plus or minus one percentage,
02:37:23
◼
►
depending on the month.
02:37:25
◼
►
For the rest of the company, it's like 90/10.
02:37:28
◼
►
Wow. - Yeah.
02:37:29
◼
►
This is like every media company.
02:37:30
◼
►
- Wow, I'm out of touch, and my numbers are, (laughs)
02:37:35
◼
►
well, I've been majority mobile though for years.
02:37:39
◼
►
I mean, last time I looked,
02:37:40
◼
►
I hardly ever look at my stats,
02:37:42
◼
►
and of course it's ridiculous and preposterous
02:37:45
◼
►
and embarrassing and we won't go into it
02:37:46
◼
►
that even though even Daring Fireball is mobile first only,
02:37:50
◼
►
it still doesn't have a mobile design
02:37:53
◼
►
other than double tapping the main column to zoom it in.
02:37:55
◼
►
- I like it, I don't think you should ever change it,
02:37:57
◼
►
to be honest with you.
02:37:58
◼
►
- Well-- - I don't know about that.
02:38:00
◼
►
Never say never, right?
02:38:01
◼
►
- But it works, but I get it.
02:38:03
◼
►
But yeah, all right, so mobile first.
02:38:05
◼
►
I don't hate the fonts.
02:38:06
◼
►
I see that you're getting some hate for them.
02:38:08
◼
►
But here's where I'm going with that,
02:38:10
◼
►
is I've been so busy this week.
02:38:11
◼
►
You were kind enough to show it to me last week,
02:38:13
◼
►
kind enough to give me the basic idea of what you're doing,
02:38:16
◼
►
which I love, of course, unsurprisingly,
02:38:19
◼
►
but I haven't been reading enough.
02:38:21
◼
►
I read more of The Verge this morning
02:38:23
◼
►
in preparation for the show than I had
02:38:25
◼
►
from when I first flew out to California until now
02:38:29
◼
►
because I've been so busy.
02:38:31
◼
►
And I'm of the opinion that you need some time
02:38:34
◼
►
before you can pass judgment on typefaces and stuff.
02:38:37
◼
►
I think the main typeface is fine though.
02:38:38
◼
►
I don't know why people, I keep hearing people keep saying
02:38:41
◼
►
I can't wait for Gruber to comment on the font
02:38:44
◼
►
and The Verge redesign.
02:38:46
◼
►
I don't quite get it.
02:38:47
◼
►
I know the headline font is opinionated,
02:38:52
◼
►
but the stuff for actual reading,
02:38:55
◼
►
I don't see what the objection is.
02:38:57
◼
►
I don't, am I missing something?
02:38:59
◼
►
- I've been trying to suss it out.
02:39:01
◼
►
So one, the idea, there's more than a little
02:39:03
◼
►
daring fireball in this whole design.
02:39:05
◼
►
Right, like Dieter and I are walking around being like,
02:39:07
◼
►
fuck it, Gruber can just post to us on website
02:39:09
◼
►
whenever he wants to, like why can't we?
02:39:10
◼
►
So like, that's the heart of it.
02:39:13
◼
►
Like why are we posting to Twitter instead of our own website
02:39:16
◼
►
so we just wanted to build like a lighter weight thing
02:39:18
◼
►
and then that, we think we should blow up The Verge
02:39:20
◼
►
every few years.
02:39:21
◼
►
That's just part of the DNA of the place.
02:39:23
◼
►
Like we should be as much on the cutting edge,
02:39:25
◼
►
we should be product, if we're gonna pass judgment
02:39:28
◼
►
on products, we should run a product.
02:39:30
◼
►
That's how I feel about it.
02:39:31
◼
►
So like I think that builds empathy for me
02:39:33
◼
►
and all the product managers in the world.
02:39:35
◼
►
So yeah, you know, to me I'm trying to figure it out
02:39:37
◼
►
and the main thing, people keep saying
02:39:40
◼
►
there's too many fonts, there's only three.
02:39:42
◼
►
- I didn't see too many fonts either, I did not
02:39:45
◼
►
and that's a thing that always jumps out to me.
02:39:47
◼
►
So I would say I agree.
02:39:49
◼
►
- Yeah, there's Minooka, which is a really big
02:39:52
◼
►
opinionated one that we're using pretty sparingly.
02:39:54
◼
►
There's Polysans, which is just beautiful.
02:39:56
◼
►
It's like hard to complain about it.
02:39:58
◼
►
And there's FK Roman, which is just a nice serif.
02:40:00
◼
►
I think we have lots of different weights going on
02:40:02
◼
►
and like it's the first version.
02:40:05
◼
►
We shipped the thing that was done enough to ship.
02:40:09
◼
►
By next week we will be iterating on it.
02:40:12
◼
►
Like everyone just needs a break.
02:40:13
◼
►
We spent two years working on it, but really we spent
02:40:15
◼
►
like 20 minutes sprinting it out the door, right?
02:40:18
◼
►
So we're, and the last six months in particular
02:40:20
◼
►
have been like a dead sprint.
02:40:22
◼
►
So everyone just needed a break this week.
02:40:23
◼
►
Ship it, we gotta see how it feels.
02:40:25
◼
►
You were talking about the student newspaper.
02:40:26
◼
►
Like there's this big, there's a weird spectrum of things
02:40:31
◼
►
that I don't quite know how to describe.
02:40:32
◼
►
But for editorial products or content products,
02:40:36
◼
►
there's like PageMaker where, you know,
02:40:39
◼
►
we run New York Magazine.
02:40:41
◼
►
I don't even know what software they use
02:40:42
◼
►
to lay out the print magazine, but New York Magazine
02:40:44
◼
►
is part of Vox Media.
02:40:45
◼
►
- I think I could say with certainty they use InDesign,
02:40:48
◼
►
but I might be wrong.
02:40:49
◼
►
- No, it's something else and I forget the name.
02:40:51
◼
►
- Oh, is it really?
02:40:51
◼
►
- Yeah, it's some piece of software that helps them
02:40:54
◼
►
lay out the print product.
02:40:55
◼
►
And like the writers submit word docs and then like
02:40:58
◼
►
a designer lays out the print magazine
02:40:59
◼
►
and that's the end of it.
02:41:00
◼
►
And then way on the other end of the spectrum
02:41:02
◼
►
is like YouTube, right?
02:41:05
◼
►
And if you think there's too many fonts
02:41:06
◼
►
in the Verge.com, like just open YouTube on your phone
02:41:10
◼
►
and it's like Fonta Palooza 'cause all the thumbnails
02:41:13
◼
►
And so like YouTube designs itself to just be filled in
02:41:16
◼
►
by other people without any control.
02:41:19
◼
►
The Verge product is like in the middle of that
02:41:23
◼
►
in like a very real way because we have a product team
02:41:26
◼
►
and designers that are opinionated and they wanna lay it out
02:41:29
◼
►
and it wants to look right.
02:41:30
◼
►
And then now they have handed it over to a hundred person
02:41:33
◼
►
newsroom and an art team and a video team
02:41:37
◼
►
that are just doing stuff.
02:41:38
◼
►
And there's communication there but there's just no way,
02:41:43
◼
►
there was no way for me personally to know
02:41:45
◼
►
how it would really look until a hundred people
02:41:48
◼
►
started publishing into it.
02:41:49
◼
►
- Right, right.
02:41:50
◼
►
- And so like sure, like it's a little,
02:41:52
◼
►
it's not quite what we expected.
02:41:55
◼
►
It does not look like the Figma mock that I have open
02:41:58
◼
►
in the other tab.
02:41:59
◼
►
We published into it for about six months in staging
02:42:03
◼
►
but we weren't writing short posts 'cause I can't tell
02:42:06
◼
►
a hundred person newsroom like published to nowhere.
02:42:09
◼
►
- Right, yeah, you can't fake--
02:42:11
◼
►
- It's just like a waste of time.
02:42:13
◼
►
So we did it with a small group.
02:42:14
◼
►
So we just like had these ideas and like most of them
02:42:17
◼
►
are playing out the way we think they are,
02:42:19
◼
►
some of them are not.
02:42:20
◼
►
Do I wish we shipped light mode right away?
02:42:21
◼
►
Of course I do.
02:42:22
◼
►
Do it like, do I think we should delineate some of these
02:42:24
◼
►
links a little bit better?
02:42:27
◼
►
Like if you sat with something for six months,
02:42:30
◼
►
you forget that not everyone understands it the way
02:42:33
◼
►
that you see it.
02:42:35
◼
►
And so like I think some of the criticism is perfectly
02:42:38
◼
►
We can make the product explain itself better.
02:42:41
◼
►
But fundamentally, am I thrilled that I just like linked out
02:42:46
◼
►
to that story you're talking about, YouTube channels
02:42:48
◼
►
and like where the growth is coming?
02:42:50
◼
►
I read that story in Tube Builder once a week.
02:42:53
◼
►
Here's the top 50.
02:42:55
◼
►
- And there's no reason for me to write a Verge article
02:42:58
◼
►
- Yep, nope.
02:42:59
◼
►
- But now I can just like link to them and like show our
02:43:02
◼
►
massive audience, hey, here's this resource that I think
02:43:06
◼
►
about all the time.
02:43:07
◼
►
And I think that's like, that's the best of the internet.
02:43:10
◼
►
Like that's how it should work.
02:43:11
◼
►
We linked to Wired today.
02:43:14
◼
►
I know and love and trust a lot of journalists at Wired.
02:43:17
◼
►
There's no reason that we should just pretend they don't
02:43:21
◼
►
And so like, that's the best of during Fireball.
02:43:23
◼
►
It's like, that's where we came from at Engadget.
02:43:25
◼
►
We were a link blog for a long time.
02:43:27
◼
►
We should just keep doing it.
02:43:29
◼
►
Like we should bring that back.
02:43:31
◼
►
And the biggest victory to me is like for a couple minutes
02:43:36
◼
►
in 2022, everyone argued about a desktop homepage.
02:43:40
◼
►
Like I did it.
02:43:42
◼
►
Like, I don't feel bad about it.
02:43:45
◼
►
Like no one else has argued about a desktop homepage
02:43:47
◼
►
like this in a very long time.
02:43:48
◼
►
So I'm happy to just make everybody consider,
02:43:52
◼
►
oh, there's a lot of value to these kinds of pages
02:43:54
◼
►
and these kinds of experiences as opposed to if you work
02:43:58
◼
►
in publishing, everyone's like,
02:43:59
◼
►
what's your discord strategy?
02:44:01
◼
►
And it's like, I don't know, somebody else runs that shit.
02:44:03
◼
►
Like not me.
02:44:05
◼
►
- I told you some of this in person,
02:44:06
◼
►
but I have to repeat it because we weren't recording
02:44:10
◼
►
when you showed it to me.
02:44:11
◼
►
But I of course love it.
02:44:14
◼
►
I love the philosophy.
02:44:16
◼
►
I don't, I don't even, but I don't, I don't, I know, I get,
02:44:19
◼
►
I've always gotten the verge, I think very well.
02:44:22
◼
►
Ever since you guys were jumped out of Engadget
02:44:25
◼
►
and what was the temporary site called?
02:44:27
◼
►
- This is my next.
02:44:28
◼
►
- Yeah, this is my next, right.
02:44:30
◼
►
I should have remembered that 'cause I actually listened
02:44:32
◼
►
to you on Ben's podcast at Stratechery
02:44:35
◼
►
where that even came up.
02:44:37
◼
►
And I know it wasn't like a name you abandoned.
02:44:40
◼
►
It was a placeholder name while you built the real thing,
02:44:42
◼
►
which was great though.
02:44:43
◼
►
But that's the mentality that you guys have had all along,
02:44:46
◼
►
which is let's not wait until we get the thing
02:44:49
◼
►
we really want to build going,
02:44:51
◼
►
let's get something else up so we can keep publishing.
02:44:54
◼
►
And that mentality is still, that's the verge.
02:44:57
◼
►
And it's great.
02:44:59
◼
►
But this is so much better because,
02:45:03
◼
►
and I know you said, I don't want to repeat it all,
02:45:05
◼
►
but I guess I think it's a paid podcast at Stratechery.
02:45:08
◼
►
So I guess we can steal it.
02:45:09
◼
►
- But he's your business partner, man.
02:45:12
◼
►
(both laughing)
02:45:15
◼
►
- He won't mind.