0:00:00I have not been more excited for an Apple event in recent memory than next week's.
0:00:07I don't know about you, but I am excited because I feel like there's a lot we don't
0:00:13know.
0:00:14Yeah, I think so.
0:00:15And it's kind of funny because I think part of the excitement comes from where it's
0:00:22going to be.
0:00:23And part of the excitement comes from what's gonna be announced and what we don't know
0:00:29about what's gonna be announced.
0:00:30I mean, we have a lot of, well, I won't say details.
0:00:35We have a lot of speculation and rumor on the new iPhone.
0:00:40But there's a lot of questions to be answered.
0:00:44Dr. Justin Marchegiani It is not a complete black box.
0:00:48But it's, I would say, I would venture to say
0:00:50it is as close to as little as we could know as possible.
0:00:54Like, just given the nature of what leaks out
0:00:57of the Asian supply chain and is outside Apple's control,
0:01:01it would be very, I mean, there's a,
0:01:04the only thing I can think, there's a few things
0:01:06we gleaned from that botched release of the HomePod OS,
0:01:11right, and that when they, you know, a month or so ago,
0:01:14when they publicly released that version
0:01:17of iOS and then, you know, the Stephen Troughton Smith
0:01:22and his cohorts, you know, went through
0:01:24and found a bunch of resources.
0:01:25So there's a few things that were gleaned from that
0:01:27that were within Apple's control,
0:01:30but otherwise, we don't know much.
0:01:32I really don't.
0:01:33And like you said, even the venue is sort of a mystery.
0:01:35I mean, what's it like?
0:01:36I mean, there's blueprints.
0:01:37There were blueprints published
0:01:39of what the theater looked like,
0:01:41but I mean, that doesn't really,
0:01:42and some leaked photos during construction, but.
0:01:45- Right.
0:01:46I don't know, it's the first event ever held there.
0:01:48It's kind of cool.
0:01:50- I'm looking forward to it.
0:01:52Even that part of it, to get to,
0:01:55I mean, I assume we'll be walking past the ring
0:01:59to get to-- - That's the funny part,
0:02:04is that it's, I don't even know where we're gonna park.
0:02:07Right? - I know, I know.
0:02:09I have no idea.
0:02:10- I don't know about you, but I didn't even,
0:02:11I mean, I got emailed with the invitation
0:02:14and I've gotten a few emails setting up times
0:02:17for post-event briefings.
0:02:20But even there, it was like,
0:02:24we'll give you more information on the details
0:02:27of how to get there later.
0:02:29- Yeah. - And it's Friday.
0:02:31- Yeah, very, yeah.
0:02:32- I know, I know, I know.
0:02:35And I really am, I'm looking forward
0:02:38to that whole aspect of it.
0:02:40- Yeah. - It's gonna be great.
0:02:41- Among the things that leaked, there was a,
0:02:43Who was it?
0:02:44There's like the journals had,
0:02:45Wall Street Journal's had a bunch of things recently,
0:02:48but I think it was the Wall Street Journal
0:02:50who like two weeks ago,
0:02:51it was before I did the last episode with Jason Snell,
0:02:54where they said that they,
0:02:56it was before the invitations went out
0:02:58and they had the date.
0:02:59They said it's gonna be Tuesday the 12th.
0:03:01And they said, and they think that,
0:03:04or Apple plans to have it in the Steve Jobs Theater,
0:03:07but who knows?
0:03:08And it's like, two weeks before the event, they know.
0:03:12- Oh yeah, they know.
0:03:13- That made it so curious, but I always,
0:03:16immediately my mind works at that meta level of journalism
0:03:21and I'm thinking like, who is this?
0:03:23And it was just attributed to sources familiar
0:03:25with the situation or something, you know,
0:03:27that one of those vague standard anonymous attributions.
0:03:32But it's like, I don't know, it's just so interesting to me
0:03:38like behind the scenes who it was that leaked the date
0:03:41if they didn't know the actual venue
0:03:43or did they leak the date?
0:03:45It was just somebody who knew the date and the venue
0:03:46but said, you know, but you can't even use the fact
0:03:51that it's gonna be at the Steve Jobs Theater anonymously.
0:03:54I don't know.
0:03:55But it's, you know, they knew.
0:03:57- Of course they knew.
0:03:59Yeah, I mean, you know, as much as we talk
0:04:02and as much speculation as there is out there,
0:04:05there's probably literally a handful of people at Apple
0:04:10at Apple, Tim Schiller and a couple of others that know what's coming.
0:04:16Yeah. But the event rollout though, there's a big team behind that. In the last few years where they
0:04:24had it at the Bill... Not Bill James, Bill James is the baseball writer, Bill Graham Civic Auditorium.
0:04:31I think it was the last two years in a row the September event was held there. They effectively
0:04:37both times built their own building in the building. I mean, it was like, but it was
0:04:42almost stunning that it was a temporary structure. The seating, the two years ago when they had
0:04:49it all set up with the Apple TV stuff, with a bunch of, you know, like fake living rooms,
0:04:54all of it was a temporary structure. Like, that's not the sort of thing that you can
0:04:59do, you know, like, oh, well, the theater is not really fully constructed. Let's call
0:05:04the Bill Graham three days before the event and see if we can quick put up a building.
0:05:11You know what I mean? Like the amount of prep that Apple puts into these events is just
0:05:15stunning. It's just one of those little things that's hard to convey. I mention it on the
0:05:22podcast whenever we talk about these events and sometimes I write about it when I write
0:05:26my post event thoughts and first thoughts about the event or whatever. But I don't know
0:05:33know if I do justice to just how much effort Apple puts into the pomp and circumstance.
0:05:40I don't know how else to describe it. You know what I mean?
0:05:44Well, for anybody that hasn't been there, I think what's important to know about these
0:05:52events is that Apple puts as much work into the event itself as it does with the products.
0:05:57Yes.
0:05:58You know, it's it really is stunning to walk into an Apple event and see
0:06:04every little detail is taken care of and for
0:06:09for for you and I and and others but for you and I when we're done with the done with
0:06:18The the event the keynote is over then we're we're in a nice very
0:06:26Nice doesn't even describe it beautiful hands-on area
0:06:29where we we you know get some time with the products and then we're whisked away to a
0:06:36waiting area where
0:06:38they have you know coffee and muffins or whatever and then into a
0:06:43briefing
0:06:45with
0:06:46Apple execs and
0:06:48it's just
0:06:50Every part of that just goes off so flawlessly and I don't know about you
0:06:54but I've been to other events where whether it's a trade show or
0:06:58You know an event like this for another company where it's just mind-blowing how bad it is. Yeah, I
0:07:06haven't been to a lot for other companies, but I was at the for the original Microsoft surface the
0:07:14first batch which was when they had the the dual strategy of
0:07:21Or Windows RT, which was all the new touch-based metro
0:07:25Interface running on an ARM tablet and then they had the thicker heavier tablet that ran
0:07:32the full version of Windows with the
0:07:35Metro interface it was weird
0:07:37And that was in New York, and it was not bad
0:07:40It definitely wasn't bad, but it and they definitely spent a lot of money on it, but it was
0:07:46nowhere near as
0:07:50polished and the flow from one segment to another like from before the event to the event to where
0:07:57do you go after the event was totally haphazard. You know, it was sort of like every man for himself
0:08:03in those periods. Well, you can spend a lot of money on things and still not get it right. It's
0:08:09the attention to detail that always seems to get right. And it's not just about the event, but
0:08:19like you said, the flow and then the products. I mean that's good and bad for Apple, especially
0:08:25when it comes to product because now that's what we expect. And when something isn't right,
0:08:30then we say, "Okay, well, for any other company, that's probably good enough."
0:08:38I think my favorite example of Apple going over the top for the hands-on area was,
0:08:44I think Katie Cotton was still there. I'm pretty sure. It might have been the last
0:08:52year that she was there running the event. And they had it, it was, I think it was an iPhone event,
0:08:57and they had it at the Yerba Buena Theater, which is a nice little theater, but it doesn't seat a
0:09:04lot of people, I don't think. And then there's a small hands-on area behind there, which is sort of
0:09:13in a room where I don't even know what the normal purpose of that room is. It might just be like the
0:09:17lobby. You know, it's like the lobby where people you know, if there's like, if you go to a play or
0:09:22an opera or something, and there's a intermission, like where people can go and I don't know,
0:09:26get a drink or a snack or mingle or whatever, but it's pretty small, and dark. And Apple literally
0:09:34had a construction crew come in and cut out the back wall to make it open air and get sunlight.
0:09:40And I remember talking to Kate, I know it was Katie and Katie was still there. And she was
0:09:45effectively in charge of when she was running PR, she was one of her like, you know, not listed
0:09:52under her job title things, but she kind of oversaw events. And I just remember saying to
0:09:58her, like, how much did that cost? And she goes, John, we're Apple. It was like, I was like, I
0:10:04guess, you know, but it is just crazy. Like, they literally cut a hole in the wall. And then like,
0:10:09after the event had a construction crew come in and put the wall back up.
0:10:11And that's the level that they'll go to. Can you imagine if you ran your baboina and
0:10:19Apple calls up and like, "Hey, we want to cut a hole in the wall." You'd be like, "Fuck you."
0:10:23And then it'd be like, "How much would that cost?" And they're like, "Well,
0:10:25and then you throw a number out and Apple's like, "Done."
0:10:30Yeah. Yeah. But that's what they do. You know my favorite one? If you remember,
0:10:38I think it was probably maybe three years ago at DeAnza College.
0:10:43They built an entire structure outside of DeAnza and it was the most beautiful structure you've
0:10:53ever seen. Now from the outside it was pure white. That was the one where Apple Watch debuted, right?
0:10:59Yes, yes. But inside was absolutely stunning. I mean, I would have lived there.
0:11:07Right, it was.
0:11:08It was, it was, that was my favorite example of just how far Apple is willing to go. And,
0:11:18you know after i've been going to apple events since 1999 and you know we we've been through
0:11:30a lot from mac world events which are you know they they weren't as nice to apple's own events
0:11:37and how they built them out and and now you know they're building buildings right for one day one
0:11:46day so that's why I'm a little intrigued about the Steve Jobs theater because now
0:11:50they have you know a permanent theater I mean yes this is obviously going to be
0:11:57where probably every Apple event other than WWDC keynotes will take place for
0:12:02the rest of our careers really I mean oh yeah yeah yeah so I'm a little
0:12:07intrigued like if they put that much effort into the hands-on area for
0:12:10temporary structures how much effort did they put into the hands-on area of the
0:12:15place where they're gonna they they intend to have these events for 30 years. I know.
0:12:20Like I'm really kind of looking forward to that just architecturally I'm really kind of
0:12:24intrigued to just geek out on the Steve Jobs Theater. Well it's it's I would imagine that
0:12:33it's going to be like the old Roman amphitheaters where Tim probably doesn't even need a microphone
0:12:41You know where you you can talk and it's just gonna resonate throughout the whole theater. I don't know a thousand people
0:12:47I bet this
0:12:48I bet the sound
0:12:50and
0:12:52the uh, the
0:12:54Av that's going to be in there, right? Like it's just going to be spectacular, right?
0:12:58Like what kind of screen are they going to put up there if it's a permanent if you know if they can
0:13:02Spend the money and make it permanent. It's going to be great
0:13:05Oh, it's going to be outstanding
0:13:08but
0:13:10You know, it's funny. Do you think that all the pictures now?
0:13:14For the two hours leading up to
0:13:18The big unveil the big unveil is going to be the campus because we're all going to be walking through there
0:13:24We're all going to be taking pictures and posting them twitter is just going to be a madhouse
0:13:28of
0:13:30Everybody posting their pictures. Yeah, so
0:13:33There's going to be two big unveils or three really because we're going to be walking past the ring
0:13:38I don't know about you, but I've never been there. So I've driven me driven those pictures. Yeah,
0:13:44I've driven by just from like the highway, whatever highway it is that's that goes by 280. Yeah,
0:13:49yeah. I tried to parachute him once but Johnny was there with a sniper rifle. So 1000 1000 seats is
0:13:58I wonder there's no I don't think that there's possibly going to be 1000 members of the media.
0:14:04I mean, I think that there's gonna be a lot of employees,
0:14:06'cause that was sort of what they did at the Bill Graham,
0:14:09I mean, not even sort of,
0:14:10it's exactly what they did at the Bill Graham Auditorium,
0:14:13where the bottom section was media and invited guests.
0:14:18- Right. - And then the upper level
0:14:21was just Apple employees.
0:14:23So there were far more Apple employees
0:14:25than media and guests.
0:14:27- Yeah, but look at this, look at the DeAnza College one.
0:14:33I think that one had two or two thousand or more. Yeah, maybe. And there were a ton of invited
0:14:42guests at that one. I remember that. A ton of them. Yeah. Yeah, you remember, yeah, we were,
0:14:46I think you and I actually sat together during that one and there was just so many invited guests
0:14:53at that one. So I think that's probably what they'll do here. I don't envision a time when
0:14:57they'll ever not fill the theater for an event. Of course they're going to because they like
0:15:03live stream and so you have to do that.
0:15:05- Well, and it does, it creates a different vibe,
0:15:09like, and I'll compare it directly to the ones
0:15:12that were held in town hall, where town hall--
0:15:15- I love town hall.
0:15:16- I mean, I think I counted the one time,
0:15:18I mean, there's, was it a, I don't know,
0:15:21it was only like 100, 150 people tops?
0:15:24That sounds about right?
0:15:26- Yeah, there's, I think there's a couple hundred people
0:15:28that fit in town hall.
0:15:29Not, certainly no more than 200,
0:15:31200 would be jam-packed. And so for those events, they--
0:15:36and you could tell, because it became--
0:15:41we have a lot of friends in the same racket.
0:15:43And sometimes, for the town hall ones,
0:15:46we knew people who didn't get invited,
0:15:48because space was limited.
0:15:52And so I don't think they wasted any seats for Apple employees,
0:15:55other than the core Apple employees who were going
0:15:59to be there in the first few rows.
0:16:01And you get a different vibe in that place, not just because it's smaller, but because
0:16:05without the Apple employees, there's less applause.
0:16:12In the events where there's, like at the De Anza College one or at the Bill Graham Civic
0:16:21Auditorium, the Apple employees at the proper points go nuts and applaud.
0:16:27and the media, I mean, some people in the media clap,
0:16:29but they're just more reserved, I mean, if only because,
0:16:34I mean, partly because it's sort of a decorum of,
0:16:37hey, we're supposed to be observers here.
0:16:40We're not rooting for a sports team here.
0:16:42We're covering this.
0:16:43And part of it is because people are typing.
0:16:46- Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true.
0:16:48I mean, you and I do our coverage pretty much the same.
0:16:55Now I stopped doing live coverage of the events
0:16:59because they stream it live.
0:17:02So there's really not much point.
0:17:04So I bring my Field Notes notebook and a pen
0:17:08and I cover it like that.
0:17:09And it's funny, Jason Snell said during,
0:17:13I think it was one of the events that he spoke at
0:17:16that the first person he ever saw do a live update
0:17:20from an event was in like 2000 and it was me.
0:17:25from an Apple keynote, we were doing live events then.
0:17:30And now it just, it doesn't make any sense.
0:17:34I would rather jot down my notes
0:17:36to be able to write some thoughts a bit later.
0:17:38- Yeah, the same way I am.
0:17:39I'm too slow of a thinker, I couldn't,
0:17:41and too slow of a typist.
0:17:43I've never really attempted to blog the whole thing live.
0:17:46I just can't, I really, I'm just, it's no joke.
0:17:50I just can't type that fast.
0:17:51And then what's the point?
0:17:52I mean, I'll fire off some tweets, but that's about it.
0:17:55- I used to get Peter Cohen to do it
0:17:59because he was so much faster than I was.
0:18:01And Peter could literally keep up with what they were saying
0:18:05and I just, okay, you win.
0:18:07- I remember back in the day,
0:18:08I remember when just getting networking was an issue
0:18:13and that some of the places, like the publications,
0:18:17like in Gadget or somebody with a crew of people,
0:18:22like somebody was responsible for bringing in the portable hotspot, you know, like one of the members
0:18:27Yes, he used to be able to get for you'd pay like 50 bucks a month and you'd get like a 3g
0:18:31wireless hotspot and it'd be hooked up to wires and power and
0:18:37It was like you have it was a mess and then remember the one when?
0:18:41So one of my all-time favorite keynote moments was when Steve Jobs interrupted the whole show because the Wi-Fi wasn't working
0:18:50Right. Remember it was like a demo
0:18:52The demo went but went south and then like five minutes later
0:18:56it was like he had called somebody else up to do the next segment and he went backstage and
0:19:00Obviously read somebody the riot act and said what the fuck is going on?
0:19:04And they said look the problem is our why our Wi-Fi for the demo doesn't work because there's I don't know it was like
0:19:10150
0:19:12Networks and jobs comes out and goes totally off script and says hey listen
0:19:16I just talked to my guys backstage and they say there's 200
0:19:20Wireless networks in here and it's fucking up our demo. So I'm gonna tell you right now
0:19:23Shut him shut him all off. We'll wait and he goes if you see
0:19:27Somebody next to with one, you know make him shut it off
0:19:30And it was so it was so it just was so exciting to be there because it's like this is well
0:19:38He stood there. Yeah stood there and
0:19:40Just wait. Yeah. Oh my god. It was classic, right?
0:19:46And he was just totally unafraid to go off the affable Steve,
0:19:51the I'm so happy to be here
0:19:54and so glad to share this with you, Steve, and went to,
0:19:57I'm pissed off, Steve, and I'm gonna get what I want.
0:20:00(laughs)
0:20:00It was so fucking great.
0:20:02- I will stand here and stare at you, 5,000 people.
0:20:05- And I felt nervous. - Until you turn around.
0:20:07- My palms got sweaty and I didn't have a network set up.
0:20:10I wasn't part of the problem, right?
0:20:13I'm literally there with a paper notebook and a pen.
0:20:17(laughing)
0:20:18And I felt bad.
0:20:19- You feel like you should close up your notebook.
0:20:22- Maybe I should just get up and leave.
0:20:25I should leave.
0:20:26(laughing)
0:20:28This is terrible.
0:20:29I feel terrible. - You scared me, Steve.
0:20:32(laughing)
0:20:34- Man, that was great.
0:20:36All right, let me just, before we get started
0:20:38on what we actually think we are going to see,
0:20:40let me interrupt the show here.
0:20:42with a word from one of our good friends.
0:20:45It's our good friends at Warby Parker.
0:20:48Look, glasses should not cost as much as an iPhone.
0:20:50A lot of prescription glasses, you go out there,
0:20:54and they really do, you know, five, $600,
0:20:56and then there's, you know, to get like the UV coating
0:20:59on the lenses or the anti-glare coating,
0:21:01it's another $100.
0:21:02Next thing you know, you're walking out, $700.
0:21:05Warby Parker's glasses start at 95 bucks,
0:21:08and that includes the prescription lenses,
0:21:10and there's no upsell on the coding or anything like that.
0:21:14No tricks, no gimmicks, really, just 95 bucks
0:21:16and you get a good pair of prescription glasses.
0:21:19And you buy 'em online, you don't have to go to a store,
0:21:22you don't waste time.
0:21:23Now how does that work?
0:21:24How do you buy something as personal as a pair of glasses?
0:21:28I mean, really, what's more personal than your glasses?
0:21:30They go right on your face.
0:21:31They really directly affect what you look like.
0:21:32Well, here's the deal, they have a try-on program.
0:21:35You go to the website, you pick up to five pairs
0:21:38that you think look good.
0:21:39they send them to you with dummy lenses in for free.
0:21:43And then you've got all five glasses at home,
0:21:45try them on, look in the mirror,
0:21:47ask the people you live with which ones they like.
0:21:49And if you wanna buy one or more, you buy them.
0:21:53You don't wanna buy any of them, you don't buy any of them.
0:21:56But then you just put those five back in a box
0:21:58that they give you with the label on it already,
0:22:00send it right back to them.
0:22:01So you send the demos back to them
0:22:03and like a week or so later,
0:22:05you get the glasses that you ordered.
0:22:07And the demo thing, it's completely free.
0:22:09So if you get five glasses, try them on,
0:22:11you don't like any of them, you send them back.
0:22:14All year out is the time it takes you
0:22:16to drop off the prepackaged pre-labeled thing
0:22:19with your UPS guy or whatever service they use.
0:22:21That's how easy it is.
0:22:22And their glasses are just great.
0:22:25I'm wearing a pair right now as I read this.
0:22:28I've had these for years,
0:22:29probably since they first started sponsoring the show.
0:22:32So as long ago, if you're a long time listener
0:22:33and you're like, man, Warby Parker's been sponsoring
0:22:36this show for a long time.
0:22:37I've got a pair that I ordered from them
0:22:39when they first started, you know,
0:22:41'cause that's what we do, you know,
0:22:42it's like I got a Casper mattress up there.
0:22:44I mean, we try this stuff.
0:22:45I got my original pair of Warby Parkers are on right now.
0:22:49That's how long they last, it's really great.
0:22:51They've got an app in the App Store,
0:22:54you can use that to facilitate the picking the glasses
0:22:57and stuff like that instead of using the website.
0:23:00What else?
0:23:02And oh, here's the other thing, this is great,
0:23:04absolutely great is every pair of glasses that they sell,
0:23:08Warby Parker distributes a pair of glasses
0:23:10to someone in need somewhere around the world.
0:23:13So that's fantastic.
0:23:14So you're not just buying yourself a great pair of eyeglasses
0:23:17Warby Parker in your name will send a pair of glasses
0:23:21to somebody in need.
0:23:22Imagine how bad that would be if you had vision
0:23:24and needed corrected lenses and lived somewhere
0:23:26and you couldn't afford to get them.
0:23:28That'd be terrible.
0:23:30So they're helping to address that.
0:23:31So my thanks to Warby Parker.
0:23:33to warbyparker.com/thetalkshow. They use the "the" in the code warbyparker.com/thetalkshow.
0:23:40And that'll be great. My thanks to Warby Parker.
0:23:45Pete: You know what? They have a storefront in Palo Alto. I was gonna go in there because I need
0:23:54a new pair of glasses. I don't know why, but I go through glasses like crazy. My rim's always
0:24:03mess up so well there you go i don't sit on them or anything we we have a uh a boutique here in uh
0:24:09center city philadelphia as well just uh not that easy walking distance for me and i've actually
0:24:15gone there to get a pair of glasses uh so if you you know check check their site maybe you live
0:24:20near one too it's funny though when you buy them from the the retail store it's literally you just
0:24:26they just have you know they have sales people they just go to the website and it's literally
0:24:30the same ordering process. It still goes through the website and they ship them right to your
0:24:34house. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's just a it's just an easier way. You know,
0:24:39the retail, the whole retail angle on it is just so that you can try on as many glasses
0:24:43as you like right there in person. How about that? Pretty neat.
0:24:47All right, let's talk about next week's event. What do we expect? So what do we know?
0:24:53We know well, or we think we know that there's going to be three new iPhones and updated, right?
0:24:594.7, you know, I don't think they're going to call it the 7S, but something equivalent to what you
0:25:06would think the iPhone 7S is something a 5.5 inch, which would be equivalent to the 7S plus,
0:25:12using the same type of screen, same size screens as the 7 and 7 Plus today, and a new, a new iPhone
0:25:19at a higher end, higher price point. And, you know, whatever code name D 22 with the OLED screen
0:25:26that goes edge to edge and has a notch at the top
0:25:29for the camera sensors and stuff like that.
0:25:31We know that.
0:25:34We don't know what they're gonna call any of these phones.
0:25:37Right?
0:25:38We don't know what they're gonna cost.
0:25:41We don't know when they're gonna ship.
0:25:44(laughs)
0:25:46- Like I said, there's a lot to be worked out still.
0:25:51- So, I mean, just sticking to iPhone.
0:25:53And I think we can get to Apple TV and Apple Watch
0:25:56and HomePod and other things that might come up in this event later.
0:25:59But just sticking to iPhone, man, we don't know a lot.
0:26:04And so everybody's focused on the OLED screen in the new high-end one, and that certainly
0:26:09is going to be different and interesting.
0:26:13But nothing else about that device has leaked, to my knowledge, really, other than this story
0:26:19that it supposedly doesn't have Touch ID, either through deliberate design choice or
0:26:25or because they couldn't figure out how to,
0:26:27and there's a Wall Street Journal story
0:26:29from like two days ago that I will put in the show notes
0:26:32that suggests according to their sources that Apple tried
0:26:35and at some point this summer gave up
0:26:38on getting a touch ID sensor integrated into the screen
0:26:41and so it doesn't have it.
0:26:42But we don't know anything about the camera.
0:26:45We don't know if it's gonna be,
0:26:46is it gonna be like use it faster chips
0:26:48than the 7S and 7S Plus, which I'll just use those names.
0:26:53I really don't think they're gonna call it that,
0:26:54but just as a shorthand.
0:26:55- Well, the big thing, I think, coming for this one,
0:27:02besides the obvious design change and edge-to-edge screen,
0:27:06will be the biometrics, the face recognition.
0:27:10That's gonna be the big thing for me.
0:27:12And we've talked about all of this before,
0:27:15about whether it will work in all circumstances,
0:27:18like Touch ID does, because I've become so used
0:27:23using touch id for payments for you know just looking at my my phone and you know you just
0:27:32kind of put your thumb on it and it unlocks and everything is so quick and that's what we expect
0:27:37from this facial recognition too but you have to think that if apple is releasing it it works
0:27:45really well right but but you know we're we're gonna try it in so many different situations i
0:27:51I mean, I love going to concerts and when I go to concerts, I love to take pictures.
0:27:56So if I pull out my phone and there's flashing lights and everything at a concert, because
0:28:01let's face it, I'm not at a jazz concert most of the time, I'm at a metal show.
0:28:06So there's lights going and everything else and it has to recognize me and unlock, you
0:28:11know, in split seconds the same way that my finger would.
0:28:16If it tells me that I have to use my code, well, that's a huge step backward.
0:28:20This is, to me, part of the excitement of the event,
0:28:25is the, you know, how good is,
0:28:29if it's true that it doesn't have touch ID,
0:28:31or I guess, even if these reports are wrong
0:28:35and they do have touch ID, but it's in the screen
0:28:38and therefore a different type of sensor,
0:28:40you know, how does it work as well
0:28:43as the existing touch ID sensors?
0:28:45But if it doesn't have touch ID,
0:28:47how does this facial ID thing work?
0:28:51We don't even know, I mean, honestly, we don't.
0:28:52I mean, one thing that I think is almost certain,
0:28:56and it seems backed up by reports about the sensors
0:28:58and stuff, that it's not a camera.
0:29:00Like, and this is the thing for people,
0:29:02like there's a lot of people who when they see these stories
0:29:04like either tweet at me or email me and they're like,
0:29:06I, you know, they think Apple's jumped the shark,
0:29:08this is gonna be a disaster,
0:29:10they don't wanna be taking a selfie
0:29:12every time they unlock the phone.
0:29:14There's no way that it works like that.
0:29:15and there's no way that it would require the light.
0:29:17I mean, it has to work, for example,
0:29:19when you wake up in the middle of the night
0:29:21or in the morning when it's still dark, right?
0:29:23You can't have a phone that you, you know,
0:29:25that you have to use a six-digit passcode
0:29:28just because you're in the dark.
0:29:30That's ridiculous.
0:29:31I mean, that would be absurd.
0:29:32But, you know, how reliable is it?
0:29:34Is it like, does it only work nine times out of 10?
0:29:37'Cause like nine times out of 10 sounds good,
0:29:39and if it was like a science project or a student project,
0:29:41you'd be like, wow, a facial recognition system
0:29:43that works nine times out of 10, that's great.
0:29:45But Touch ID works 999 times out of 1,000.
0:29:50I mean, it's really rare when Touch ID doesn't work.
0:29:55And it's almost, for me, it's almost,
0:29:57I mean, I know that there are people who,
0:30:01for whatever reason, their skin is different
0:30:03or their fingerprints are, I don't know,
0:30:05too thin or something.
0:30:06I know that there are some people
0:30:07who Touch ID doesn't work great for,
0:30:08but for me, it always works.
0:30:11And the only times it doesn't is if,
0:30:13and I know exactly why, like my hands are soaking wet.
0:30:15If my hands are, it's raining and my hands are soaking wet,
0:30:18it doesn't work.
0:30:19Well I know, I just dry my thumb and then it'll work,
0:30:21and then it does.
0:30:23Like the facial, if they replace Touch ID
0:30:25with a facial ID, it has to be as reliable or better.
0:30:29Every, in every way, as fast, as secure,
0:30:31as trustworthy, as reliable,
0:30:34and nine times out of 10 isn't good enough.
0:30:36If one time out of 10 when you try to unlock your phone,
0:30:39it doesn't unlock, that sucks.
0:30:41It'll make you, it'll make you furious,
0:30:42'cause we're used to, we're already used to it working,
0:30:45you know, as well as Touch ID.
0:30:47- And this is what makes these type of events
0:30:52so difficult for Apple, because they know all this,
0:30:56you know, they know that if this,
0:31:00the new facial recognition screws up
0:31:03and they don't have Touch ID in there,
0:31:05then, you know, they're gonna get hammered and they will.
0:31:09I mean, there's already people that are just waiting
0:31:12to write that story, that it failed.
0:31:16The same way that they did when Touch ID came out.
0:31:19Oh, well, you can cut off somebody's thumb
0:31:22and have their fingerprint.
0:31:26So you know that stuff is coming,
0:31:28but I'm pretty confident that it's gonna work.
0:31:32I'm hopeful and confident.
0:31:34- I saw a video, I saw a video,
0:31:35just like the Samsung Galaxy Note 8 just shipped,
0:31:39not the Galaxy S8, which shipped six months ago,
0:31:42but the Note 8 shipped and it has a facial ID for unlocking.
0:31:46But it does seem to be-- - Was it on fire?
0:31:48- No, but it is camera-based, and so I saw a demo,
0:31:51like somebody was in the hands-on area from the event,
0:31:54took a selfie on their phone and showed the selfie
0:31:58to the S8 after having set up the facial ID
0:32:01and it unlocked. (laughs)
0:32:04So it was just pointing at the picture of himself
0:32:06on the other phone, and Samsung does make it clear
0:32:09from what I've been able to tell,
0:32:10that when they unlock with the facial ID,
0:32:14they tell you it's not as secure.
0:32:15And you can't use it for things like payments.
0:32:19It will unlock your phone, and then you
0:32:21can go and launch apps and stuff like that.
0:32:23But it won't let you do things that require the equivalent
0:32:27of an administrator ID.
0:32:31You know how sometimes you have to--
0:32:32even the iPhone will make you put your passcode in
0:32:35to install a software update or something like that.
0:32:39or like when you upgrade to the switch to the betas,
0:32:43when you install the, there's like a,
0:32:45the way they do the iOS betas now
0:32:47is you install a certificate,
0:32:51and then that puts your iPhone on,
0:32:54looking for the software updates from the beta server
0:32:56instead of the release server.
0:32:58Stuff like that, they don't let it do it.
0:33:02But still, if Apple works like that,
0:33:04that's embarrassing, really,
0:33:06and I think they're gonna get called out on it.
0:33:08And I think the reason it seems a little exciting,
0:33:10there's a part of me that wants to say,
0:33:11Apple wouldn't do this unless they knew
0:33:14that the facial ID was gonna be good enough.
0:33:16But there's a part of me that wants to argue
0:33:20the counter way that I can see how they could
0:33:23back themselves into a corner where maybe they had to,
0:33:27or at least they felt like they had to ship that
0:33:30even with a not quite as good as touch ID facial ID sensor,
0:33:34meaning like they really thought they were gonna
0:33:36pull it off and get touch ID under the screen.
0:33:39And it got really late in the game, like early this summer,
0:33:44and they concluded they couldn't, and they had to pull it,
0:33:47but they also felt like we can't go another year
0:33:50without an edge-to-edge OLED screen.
0:33:53Our phones look dated compared to the highest end phones
0:33:58from Samsung and LG because everybody else has these screens
0:34:02with no forehead, no chin, or minimal forehead and chin.
0:34:05and we need to forge ahead, touch ID be damned.
0:34:10I could see how they maybe felt like they got backed
0:34:13into a corner and I could see how like
0:34:15when they made that decision,
0:34:17you know, at the Monday morning executive meeting,
0:34:20that there were probably people, if that's the case,
0:34:23I could hypothetically see how that was
0:34:24a contentious argument and there'd be people on both sides,
0:34:27you know, one side arguing we need to scrap this
0:34:30and wait another year or release it six months later,
0:34:33do whatever it takes to get it good enough.
0:34:35And other side saying,
0:34:38"We can't launch in September without this phone."
0:34:40- So do you think that this was the same type of pressure
0:34:43they felt to build a bigger phone?
0:34:44- I don't think it's quite as big a deal as that.
0:34:47'Cause I feel like the bigger phone,
0:34:50the bigger phones thing turned out
0:34:52to be a mass market phenomenon, right?
0:34:54Like just normal people, non-phone enthusiasts.
0:34:59And here's how I would describe a normal phone consumer.
0:35:03I just saw a poll the other day.
0:35:07I got an email from SurveyMonkey
0:35:09with a poll that they had conducted recently
0:35:14about people's phone expectations.
0:35:17How many, what percentage of 1,000 people
0:35:19are excited about the new iPhone?
0:35:21What percent think they're gonna buy it or whatever?
0:35:23And one of the questions they asked is,
0:35:24how often do you replace your phone?
0:35:26And the most popular answer with like,
0:35:29and I don't know, there's some people said every year,
0:35:32some people said every two years,
0:35:33some people said three or more years.
0:35:34But the most popular answer was,
0:35:36I only replace my phone when my old one breaks.
0:35:39It was like 38%.
0:35:41That's what I would call a normal person.
0:35:42That's how most people I know in my family,
0:35:45they end up replacing it every three, four, five years anyway
0:35:51'cause that's how long it takes for phones to break.
0:35:53But they just don't, if their phone works perfectly,
0:35:56they're not even thinking about getting a new phone.
0:35:59I mean, that's how I am with cars, for example.
0:36:01But when you and I look at, and I--
0:36:05- Before we get off that, I just,
0:36:07I think that there were normal people
0:36:08like that type of people who wanted big 5.5-inch phones.
0:36:12They just, that seems great to me.
0:36:15So I don't think that's true for this edge-to-edge trend.
0:36:17I think it's people like us who are really enthusiasts
0:36:20who really think about every single little design detail
0:36:24of the phones who are into the minimization
0:36:27of the chin and forehead.
0:36:28- I caution people all the time,
0:36:30and the people that are in the industry,
0:36:32that you can't think about these types of things
0:36:39only the way that we do.
0:36:41You have to think about this the way that a consumer does.
0:36:43And a consumer, excuse me, doesn't care as much as,
0:36:48typically doesn't care as much as you and I may
0:36:52about an iPhone.
0:36:53The same way that if you and I were doing TV blogs,
0:37:00would we care as much about iPhones?
0:37:04Probably not.
0:37:05I could care less about TVs.
0:37:07If I need a new TV, I'm gonna go down to Best Buy
0:37:11or whatever it is, and I'm gonna buy a new TV.
0:37:14And I'm gonna buy whatever I can afford to get
0:37:17and the best one that I can get.
0:37:20And I'm gonna be happy with that.
0:37:21- I'm in between.
0:37:27I haven't bought a new TV in maybe like 10 years.
0:37:30But I love my TV.
0:37:33It's a Pioneer Plasma and I just love it to death.
0:37:35It's just one of my favorite things
0:37:38I've ever purchased in my life
0:37:39because I just love the picture quality.
0:37:41But I researched the hell out of it
0:37:42when I needed to get it 10 years ago.
0:37:45And I knew exactly, out of all the TVs in the market,
0:37:48I had narrowed it down.
0:37:49I know exactly I want this model from Pioneer at this size.
0:37:55And it was like three times,
0:37:57at least three times more expensive
0:37:58than like just the typical whatever size.
0:38:01I think it's like 55 inches.
0:38:02But once I got it, and I'm,
0:38:07we're not like a big put a TV in every room family.
0:38:11Like I've never had a TV in my bedroom.
0:38:13I just, I don't watch TV in bed.
0:38:15So we just have one main TV.
0:38:17Jonas has a second TV that he has hooked up for video games.
0:38:20But I wanted to research the hell out of it
0:38:25and get a really good TV.
0:38:26And then I just tuned out of the entire--
0:38:28I haven't looked.
0:38:29I haven't shopped for a TV.
0:38:30I have no idea.
0:38:31I have no idea what's out there.
0:38:35I mean, things like TVs, refrigerators, all the--
0:38:41I don't go to refrigerator blogs and look for what's
0:38:51coming out in a month.
0:38:52Should I wait a month to buy this fridge?
0:38:53Or should--
0:38:54You know, it just, and I think,
0:38:57for the majority of consumers,
0:39:00that's how they feel about an iPhone.
0:39:02That's why Apple will continue to sell iPhones
0:39:05up until the time the new ones come out.
0:39:08Because people, their phone breaks and they go.
0:39:11- Let's play what if.
0:39:12What if early this summer, Apple had figured out
0:39:16there's no way that we can integrate a touch ID
0:39:19under the screen like we thought we could
0:39:21in time to launch it September.
0:39:24What if they had instead of what they've seemingly done,
0:39:28what if they had said, okay, so that phone,
0:39:30we're gonna have to punt and either push it back six months
0:39:33and do like a off cycle thing
0:39:36like when they shipped the iPhone SE
0:39:38or punted a full year to next September.
0:39:42And this event comes Monday or Tuesday
0:39:45and everybody in the press is still thinking,
0:39:48you know, I guess if they had done that,
0:39:51it would have leaked that Apple isn't shipping that phone.
0:39:53It's like they would have set the expectation.
0:39:56They wouldn't let everybody file into the room
0:39:58thinking there's gonna be an iPhone Pro
0:40:01and those other two phones.
0:40:02They'd somehow set that expectation before the event.
0:40:05But like-- - I think they'd have to.
0:40:06- Right, but when that leaked, when the leak comes out,
0:40:09like a Wall Street Journal story in mid-July comes out
0:40:13that says Apple, unlike the rumors that have been to date,
0:40:16they're actually only going to ship two new iPhones
0:40:19in September updates to the 4.7-inch
0:40:215.5 inch LCD iPhones 7s.
0:40:28When that came out, they would have taken a huge hit.
0:40:31But it would have been a huge hit to me in, I think, in our crowd.
0:40:37The tech enthusiast crowd would have excoriated them for this.
0:40:41It might have hurt the stock price because business, you know, investor types are sort
0:40:46of, they don't really geek out on the details, but they certainly geek out on the idea of
0:40:50like a $1200 iPhone that they think might sell well. But I don't think it would have
0:40:56really registered among normal people. And I know that there's a lot of people who disagree.
0:41:04There's a lot of people who think that there's enough people out there who really are—I
0:41:12mean it's the whole argument of how much does the iPhone 7 resemble the two-year older
0:41:16than the iPhone 7, the 6.
0:41:19Right, that the 6, the 6s, and the 7
0:41:21became three generations that mostly,
0:41:23and certainly when you put them in a case, look the same.
0:41:26And there are differences.
0:41:30Really, the iPhone 7 is not the same exact design.
0:41:34You can't put it in the same case.
0:41:35The cameras are very different.
0:41:37There's a different cutout.
0:41:38There is no cutout for the volume buttons
0:41:40like there was on the 6 and 6s.
0:41:42But those differences are subtle.
0:41:44I know there's a lot of people who think
0:41:46that that's hurt Apple sales that they think in the world.
0:41:50I really just don't think it's true.
0:41:52I mean, I think it's a measurable number of people
0:41:54who want something that looks excitingly new.
0:41:57But I just, and I think that the strength
0:41:59of the iPhone 7 sales really backs that up.
0:42:02The 6 sold extremely well and everybody knew it was
0:42:05because there was pent up demand for a big iPhone.
0:42:08The 6s, the Plus actually disappointed.
0:42:11I mean, the Apples came out on conference calls
0:42:14and even said that the 6S Plus sold less than they thought it would. And then last year,
0:42:18the 7 Plus was backordered for weeks and they came out and said, "Yeah, it was way stronger
0:42:24demand than we thought." I think personally because of the camera, because I think that
0:42:29you tell even just normal people, this thing has two cameras and it helps you take amazing
0:42:34portrait photos. People totally get that and everybody I know who's a normal person, their
0:42:40their only camera these days is their phone.
0:42:43So a better phone.
0:42:44You say this is a much better camera on this phone.
0:42:47To them it's like sold, get me one of those.
0:42:52And that's why I think the 7 sold so surprisingly,
0:42:55or at least better, more than Apple even expected last year.
0:42:59And I think that the fact that the 7 sold so well
0:43:02puts the lie to the fact that the design
0:43:04has to change to keep people interested.
0:43:07I think it has to change to keep us interested,
0:43:10meaning the tech media, people who write about this
0:43:13every day, but are our crowds, to me up to my mind,
0:43:18a very short attention span?
0:43:21- Well, you know, probably better than the most,
0:43:26the worst thing that you can do is change designs
0:43:30for the sake of change.
0:43:31- Yes, I totally agree with that.
0:43:33- You have something that works, you go with it.
0:43:36I mean, you don't go overboard,
0:43:39But look at car companies like Toyota.
0:43:42Toyota has a great brand.
0:43:44Their cars are known for working well for many, many years.
0:43:49And their designs basically stay the same for years on end.
0:43:53And then they'll do it as a change.
0:43:55And those designs will stay the same.
0:43:57So getting back to your original question,
0:44:01what would you write?
0:44:05Come Monday afternoon, the event is over
0:44:08and Apple does not release an edge to edge phone
0:44:11and they release an iPhone 7S Plus and 7S.
0:44:16Will you write that, what a disappointing event?
0:44:19- I would take, I would not,
0:44:21and I would try to do what I usually do
0:44:26and try to assess just how much better
0:44:28those two new phones are and take them for what they are.
0:44:32I would be curious, if that happened next week,
0:44:35my curiosity wouldn't be that Apple fucked up.
0:44:38It wouldn't be that this is a disaster, they're doomed or whatever.
0:44:42But it would be curious to me that they didn't set the expectation in advance of the event
0:44:46that it wasn't going to happen.
0:44:48So to me the more plausible what-if scenario would be what if that had already leaked about
0:44:54a month ago.
0:44:56And in that case, I'd be a little disappointed because I'm excited to see the new phone,
0:45:01but I totally understand that that's what happens when you make a new product.
0:45:05And that's what happens when you have your foot
0:45:07all the way down on the gas pedal in terms of,
0:45:10let's get the most advanced technology
0:45:12into this phone that we possibly can.
0:45:14Let's be as aggressive as we can about shipping
0:45:18what we think is the next generation of technology.
0:45:20You know, if you're not running into production problems,
0:45:24you're not pressing hard enough.
0:45:25- No, I don't disagree at all.
0:45:27- Steven Sinofsky even tweeted that the other day,
0:45:30the guy who used formerly at Microsoft.
0:45:32and now is a big iPad proponent.
0:45:35But he linked to that Wall Street Journal story
0:45:40about the production hitches in summer
0:45:42and said that's, without knowing any details
0:45:45of this in particular, that's what product development
0:45:48is like if you're being aggressive.
0:45:50Like if you're not hitting production problems,
0:45:52you're not pressing hard enough.
0:45:54- Yep, and they'll overcome those.
0:45:57You know, it's not an insurmountable problem for them,
0:46:01but it's a problem right now.
0:46:02- Well, and that's the problem is that to overcome them,
0:46:05it takes time, and that's the one thing
0:46:08that people in the media don't want to grant Apple is time.
0:46:12Like, all right, let me take another break here
0:46:18and we'll get back and talk more iPhone,
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0:47:49So what do you think they're gonna call the new iPhones?
0:47:52I'm gonna go, I'm betting that all three are coming, right?
0:47:56I mean, that seems like about as close to certain as possible.
0:47:58- So they could go with the,
0:48:02continuing on with what they've done,
0:48:04the 7S and 7S Plus,
0:48:08and then do just the iPhone 8,
0:48:11which is the big edge to edge,
0:48:13you know, it's the beautiful one.
0:48:15Or they could make them all iPhone 8s
0:48:18and do an iPhone 8 Pro, premium edition,
0:48:22you know, one of those names.
0:48:26But I give it a 50/50 chance either way.
0:48:31- I don't think there's any chance
0:48:33they're gonna call those 7S and 7S Plus
0:48:36because by all accounts, they're coming in
0:48:39at the same price points as the existing 7 and 7 Plus.
0:48:43It's not like an iPhone 5C where, yes, it's a new phone,
0:48:47but it's a new phone that we're targeting
0:48:50at like the mid-price tier.
0:48:52So if it's supposed to sell at the existing prices,
0:48:56I think it makes them look bad to call them sevens
0:49:00and call this other one eight.
0:49:02It's like, it makes it sound like they're a year behind.
0:49:06Like I think, and this is to me the most intriguing part
0:49:09of the whole event next week is how are they going
0:49:11to product marketing-wise position these three phones
0:49:15such that the first two look like the iPhones we would
0:49:20expect in any typical year, like the best phones
0:49:23on the market from the company with the best eye for design.
0:49:27And here's this new thing at a higher tier, right?
0:49:31And I think calling the first two 7S
0:49:35and calling the other one 8, it says the opposite.
0:49:38It says these two are year-old technology,
0:49:41even though they're coming out right now.
0:49:42It would make sense to me if the rumor were
0:49:44that the 7S and 7S Plus were going to be introduced
0:49:48at like $150 lower price than they currently sell.
0:49:51That would make sense to me,
0:49:52if they were sort of like the new version of the iPhone 5C.
0:49:56But that by all accounts, that's not what they're doing.
0:49:58They're introducing two new phones
0:50:00that are what we would expect from Apple on a typical year,
0:50:03which is, you know, and in my opinion,
0:50:05I've said this many times,
0:50:06I think that dollar for dollar,
0:50:09the S models of all iPhones
0:50:11have been better than the non S models.
0:50:14The 3GS was way, maybe it was one of the most
0:50:19biggest updates in iPhone history,
0:50:23even though it looked exactly like the iPhone 3G.
0:50:25It was, the speed difference was tremendous.
0:50:27The iPhone 3G was barely an improvement
0:50:29over the original iPhone.
0:50:30The only significant, I think it added GPS, I don't know.
0:50:33But the main thing was that it went
0:50:35from edge networking to 3G,
0:50:36which was obviously a nice improvement.
0:50:39But everything else, like the camera stayed the same,
0:50:41the CPU stayed the same, the graphics stayed the same,
0:50:44The screen stayed the same.
0:50:46The 3GS was a huge update over the 3G.
0:50:48The 4S was a huge update over the iPhone 4, right?
0:50:52The 5S was the one that introduced Touch ID.
0:50:55I just think that the S models get underestimated
0:51:00by reviewers just because they look the same.
0:51:05They just look at it without even using it or testing it
0:51:08or measuring the speed or trying the camera or whatever.
0:51:11They're just like, well, it looks the same, meh.
0:51:14- Well, you know what we should do right now
0:51:16to just end all this is conference in Schiller.
0:51:20(laughing)
0:51:21Just, let's just conference in Schiller and we'll ask him.
0:51:24Hey, Phil.
0:51:25- Sure, he'd be happy to talk to us.
0:51:28And I'm sure he's not busy at all on a Friday before--
0:51:31- No, I'm sure, I'm sure he's not busy.
0:51:34- He's probably taking a nap.
0:51:36- Okay, so you're going with--
0:51:37- I think it's either going to be iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus,
0:51:41an iPhone 8 Pro, or they drop the numbers
0:51:45and just say this is the new iPhone,
0:51:47this is the new iPhone Plus,
0:51:48and this is the brand new iPhone Pro.
0:51:51Like, which is sort of what, which is not even sort of,
0:51:53that's exactly what they've done with the iPad lineup.
0:51:56- Yeah, and you know what, to be honest,
0:51:59I would like that option the best.
0:52:00- 'Cause at some point the numbers start to get silly,
0:52:05right, it's like, you know, they could do,
0:52:08I don't think it would be ridiculous for them,
0:52:11I don't think it would be unusual or even the least bit
0:52:13surprising if the iPhone 8 thing is what turns out.
0:52:16iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone 8 Pro.
0:52:19I could totally see them doing it.
0:52:20But at some point, you know, like what?
0:52:22You're going to have an iPhone 13?
0:52:24You know?
0:52:26Yeah, and at what point does that get weird?
0:52:28At some point, they have to drop the numbers, I think.
0:52:30And so why not now when they're introducing this new Pro model?
0:52:35And I do think they're going to call it Pro.
0:52:37And I could be wrong.
0:52:41I mean, this is the sort of thing
0:52:42that I think that they have kept under complete lock and key.
0:52:46And as you, you know, names and price,
0:52:49product names and prices are like the things
0:52:52that are least likely to leak from Apple.
0:52:55In years past, there were sometimes like prices would leak
0:52:58because it would somehow like prematurely hit
0:53:01the retail channel and somebody in an Apple store
0:53:05would, you know, get like an update
0:53:07and just some regular person working in an Apple store is like, "Whoa, here's these new
0:53:12product names and prices," and then email it to 9to5Mac or something. But that hasn't
0:53:20happened in years. And they've just--I mean, even the name, even going back 10 years, the
0:53:25original iPhone name did not leak. Remember, there was all this--everybody speculated,
0:53:30because at the time when Apple was just putting "i" in front of every name, iPhone was the
0:53:35the rumored name for Apple's secret phone project.
0:53:39But remember when Steve--
0:53:39- And they didn't even own it.
0:53:40- No, and everybody's like, they can't use it
0:53:42'cause Cisco owns it, or I think it was Cisco.
0:53:45And so it was actually a great moment in the keynote
0:53:48and when Jobs says, and we're gonna call it iPhone,
0:53:52and then the name iPhone, I remember it was like
0:53:54the drop effect and dust came up from the ground and keynote.
0:53:58And he goes, yeah, that's what we're calling it.
0:54:01Like he knew, like he was addressing the whole,
0:54:03hey, they can't call it iPhone
0:54:05Cisco owns a trademark on the name iPhone,
0:54:07and he was just like, fuck it, we're calling it iPhone.
0:54:09(laughing)
0:54:11So names don't leak.
0:54:12So I have absolutely zero inside, no little birdies,
0:54:17no friends of a birdie, no, my cousin has a friend
0:54:21who's married to someone at Apple who told me
0:54:23that they're gonna call it this.
0:54:24I have nothing, nobody's told me a damn thing.
0:54:26I just think they're gonna call it Pro
0:54:27because that's what they call the higher end models.
0:54:31That's what they call the MacBook Pro,
0:54:32it's what they call the iPad Pro.
0:54:33- Yeah, I agree.
0:54:34I mean, it just, it makes sense.
0:54:37Makes sense.
0:54:38Now the only question is, will they drop the number?
0:54:41- Yeah, those are my two guesses.
0:54:43I don't know.
0:54:45That's what I feel 50/50 on.
0:54:47But I also feel like giving, if they call them all eight,
0:54:50or if they drop the number on all of them
0:54:52and just go iPhone, iPhone Plus, iPhone Pro,
0:54:56it elevates those to the 4.7 and the 5.5 inch phones
0:55:01to be peers with this new phone,
0:55:03as opposed to, you know, it's a way to position them
0:55:06such that they don't look unappealing
0:55:08even though they're not the highest end models.
0:55:10- Yes.
0:55:11Yeah, it's important, I mean,
0:55:15you said it a few minutes ago perfectly,
0:55:18they have to have tiers,
0:55:20but they can't make one seem inferior
0:55:23while having tiers. - Right.
0:55:24- And you know, this is where the show comes in.
0:55:30This is his expertise.
0:55:31- It really is.
0:55:32- He has to market this so that somebody doesn't feel like,
0:55:36oh, look at that, look at the iPhone I have to get.
0:55:40They have to say, okay.
0:55:42- I think that this is one of the hardest things
0:55:46that Schiller and his team have had to do in Apple history.
0:55:49- Yes.
0:55:50- It's both, it's two things, too.
0:55:52It's the original message, which is what they say
0:55:55on stage in the keynote, to set the,
0:55:58Here's our version of the story of these products
0:56:01that we want to seed into the head of the public
0:56:05who's watching all the millions of people
0:56:07who watch these streams live and us, the media,
0:56:10who are gonna be writing about them
0:56:11to try to get us to see it the same way
0:56:15they want us to see it.
0:56:17And secondarily, which is totally different,
0:56:20is the ad campaigns for these products,
0:56:22is how do they come up with ad campaigns
0:56:24that accomplish the same thing,
0:56:26make the new regular iPhones seem desirable and new
0:56:30and much improved and desirable,
0:56:33and at the same time introduce this new pro model
0:56:37at a higher price that doesn't diminish demand
0:56:39for the existing tiered prices, tiered models.
0:56:44It's a challenge, it really is.
0:56:47So interesting to see how they do it.
0:56:50Like, is it going to be like a totally separate ad campaign
0:56:53for the pro as opposed to the regular iPhones
0:56:55or do they do one ad campaign that includes them all?
0:56:58I totally, I don't know.
0:57:01- I don't think that they can.
0:57:02I think that, you know, this pro is gonna be marketed
0:57:07completely different than what the other ones are.
0:57:13- I think so too. - I really do.
0:57:17- It's gonna be, I think that's where a lot of the focus
0:57:20is gonna be because people are gonna know about
0:57:24the updated models, but this new one,
0:57:28it's gonna be brand new and shiny
0:57:30and it's gonna be spectacular
0:57:32and they're gonna market the hell out of that.
0:57:35- There's also been a rumor
0:57:37and it seems like so much of the attention
0:57:39is on the Pro, the D22-1.
0:57:41I mean, not even seems like the attention
0:57:43really is on that model.
0:57:45And the so-called 7S and 7S+
0:57:48are almost like afterthoughts in all the rumors.
0:57:51And I think that's so curious and so indicative
0:57:54of how small-minded the media is,
0:57:57how narrowly focused it can be.
0:57:59Because I would guess that we're getting updates
0:58:02as good as the S updates we'd expect in a normal year.
0:58:06- Absolutely. - Which is typically,
0:58:08like I said, usually a bigger improvement
0:58:10than the other way around.
0:58:11Like it might be, I would expect that these two phones
0:58:14are better than the 7, they're corresponding,
0:58:17the 7 and 7 Plus, than the 7 was from the 6S
0:58:20and the 6S Plus.
0:58:21- I think I'm willing to bet that
0:58:25if there is a hands-on area at this event on Tuesday,
0:58:28that when we go in there,
0:58:31there will be nobody at the 7S and 7S Plus table
0:58:35and everybody will be at the 8 table.
0:58:37- I remember that.
0:58:38I remember the one event when they first came out with the,
0:58:41I think it's still the current form factor
0:58:44of the iPod Touch, the one that originally shipped
0:58:47with an optional wrist lanyard.
0:58:49I don't think they've changed the industrial design
0:58:53since then other than getting rid of the thing
0:58:55for the wrist lanyard, the little pop-out thing.
0:58:58But I remember that event, the hands-on area,
0:59:02I came out and I was with a friend of the show,
0:59:04off-frequent guest, M.G. Siegler,
0:59:07back when he was, I think he was writing
0:59:08for TechCrunch at the time.
0:59:10And it was like three or four deep around the iPhone.
0:59:14It was either the 4 or the 4S, I think.
0:59:16Maybe it was, I don't know, I think it was the iPhone 5.
0:59:18It was the first year of the iPhone 5.
0:59:19And the iPod touch table, there was literally nobody there.
0:59:23So we just went there and it was so much more enjoyable.
0:59:26Because, okay, it wasn't the product
0:59:28I was most interested in, but it was,
0:59:31we had the room, we could completely examine it.
0:59:33We could talk to the people, the Apple people
0:59:36who were there to answer our questions about it.
0:59:38And meanwhile, everybody at the other one,
0:59:40it was like a fight over Cabbage Patch dolls in 1985.
0:59:44Yeah. And that's what it's like at every event. And there's nothing Apple can do. It's us.
0:59:52It's not them. And it's not, we were talking earlier about their flow or any,
0:59:58it's got nothing to do with that. It's just the way that the president-
1:00:01Well, and one of the ways that the, if we, to stroll back down memory lane again, and the way
1:00:07that, I mean, you've been going to events, like you said, since 1999. So you've got way more
1:00:12years under your belt than me. I think I started getting press passes to Macworld around 2006
1:00:21or so, maybe 2005, but 2006. So when I got to press pass for the iPhone 1 in January
1:00:272007, it was still one of the third or fourth event that I'd gotten a press pass for. But
1:00:35just in the last 10 years, one of the ways that's changed absolutely, and it's just totally
1:00:39changed the flow of these events is the obsession with shooting video and photographs. It just
1:00:45wasn't a thing back then because, I mean, it's certainly for video. There was just no way to
1:00:50get video online, you know, remotely. It was just too big. Bandwidth was too slow. Cameras were too
1:00:59big. Now it's all video. It's video, video, video, video, and product shots. And I've said this
1:01:07before, but it really changes the dynamic of the hands-on area is that once
1:01:11somebody from these media outlets gets to, you know, now they can hold the new
1:01:16iPhone, they have, it's like a team and they have a, you know, here's the person
1:01:21who's gonna hold it and here's the photographer, but to get the shot they
1:01:25want, they need space, you know, they don't just want to stick the camera right up
1:01:28there, they want to put a longer lens on and it's, it really does get ugly, you
1:01:33know, where they're, because they, if, you know, and if you're not really paying
1:01:36attention if you're just trying to walk around. You might walk—there's enough space between
1:01:40a photographer and a reporter that you could easily, inadvertently just walk in front of
1:01:44them because it's crowded and there's hundreds of people there. And it really does change.
1:01:49And then because it means that they need so much space around them that it's no longer
1:01:53packed tables. It's people and they're pushing people. It's real ugly.
1:01:57Ted
1:01:57- Well, it is a weird situation, but you know,
1:02:01I think for many of us that have been there
1:02:04for a long time, like you said, we're just kinda,
1:02:07you know, we're willing to hang out,
1:02:08but some of these guys that get in there these days
1:02:11are just, like they're going elbows up.
1:02:13- Remember last year with the jet black iPhone,
1:02:16that's the one everybody wanted to get pictures of,
1:02:20but it's really hard to photograph.
1:02:22Like it's, you know, for obvious reasons,
1:02:26It's like, you know, like I had friends
1:02:29who had a black pug, you know, the dog.
1:02:33Just jet black hair with black eyes.
1:02:36Adorable, adorable little dog.
1:02:39The hardest damn thing to take a photo of,
1:02:41there's just no way to get the light right.
1:02:44Like your eyes can totally see this adorable pug face
1:02:47and these adorable eyes looking at you,
1:02:49and then your camera just sees like a black pillow.
1:02:53And so people last year trying to set up shots
1:02:56of the jet black iPhone, they'd take the shot
1:02:58and then the photographer would chimp.
1:03:00You ever hear that verb, chimping?
1:03:02Chimping is when you have like a SLR, you take a picture,
1:03:06and then you look at the screen to see if you got the shot.
1:03:09And you're up to your eyes, take a shot, look at the screen,
1:03:12just over and over and over again playing with the exposure
1:03:15and trying to get it positioned in the light just so.
1:03:18And it's like you're not in a photo studio here.
1:03:20You're in a working press room with 250 members of the media
1:03:25who all want the same phone, and meanwhile,
1:03:27tilted a quarter of an inch this way,
1:03:29catch the light, it was, ugh, it was maddening.
1:03:31Let me think, what else?
1:03:32What do you think the price is gonna start on the Pro model?
1:03:36- Well, I mean, I think 1,000 to 1,200.
1:03:41- I think 999 is their goal,
1:03:44and it's probably as a starting price.
1:03:45So that tricked out plus of iPhone 8 plus or whatever,
1:03:507S plus, whatever they're gonna call it,
1:03:52the 5.5 inch one,
1:03:54I would think would have the same prices last year,
1:03:56$969 for the one with the most storage.
1:04:00And then if that's the existing,
1:04:03and that's the existing high price, 969,
1:04:06then if the new one starts at 999,
1:04:08it seems like it's a continuous flow of prices
1:04:11from the whatever the lowest memory storage config
1:04:16of the iPhone 7 is up to.
1:04:19But I would guess that they'd have at least two tiers,
1:04:21maybe like 64 gigs and 256 or something like that,
1:04:26with $100 bump in between them, or maybe $200, I don't know.
1:04:32I could totally see it going up to $1200.
1:04:35- Yeah, so could I.
1:04:36But people have been talking about this,
1:04:39know the price of this thing like it's it's going to collapse the market and and it's not but I think
1:04:48mentally we have a ceiling you know a thousand dollar price point and then things start to to
1:04:57ramp up again you know so anything under a thousand dollars I think we're okay with but
1:05:03once you say a thousand dollars then you're thinking oh my god thousand dollars that's a
1:05:08That's a lot of money.
1:05:09But $9.99, that's perfectly fine.
1:05:11- The people who are upset about it
1:05:12are the people who are enthusiasts
1:05:14and like the idea that they have the best iPhone
1:05:19they could buy and who also don't want to,
1:05:22or either can't or won't pay over $1,000 for an iPhone.
1:05:27So now they're torn because they always had
1:05:29the best iPhone that money could buy
1:05:31and they can't buy the new best iPhone that money can buy
1:05:35or won't buy the new best iPhone that money can buy
1:05:38And so those people are upset.
1:05:40I mean, they've been vocal ever since rumors
1:05:43of this started hitting, and they certainly were vocal
1:05:46when I wrote about what the prices might be
1:05:49earlier this summer.
1:05:51And I understand it, they're not wrong, right?
1:05:53If that's how you feel or if that's your budget.
1:05:55I mean, but I think that they take it too far
1:05:58when they say, I've also heard the argument
1:06:00that they either won't or shouldn't call it the iPhone Pro,
1:06:05emphasis on pro because you know with macbooks and even ipads that pro makes sense because they're
1:06:12they're tools people use for work you know and that somebody who buys a macbook pro instead of a
1:06:16macbook air or a regular macbook is doing so because they have professional needs for work
1:06:22that require i don't agree with that i don't i a don't agree with it on the macbook pro and the
1:06:28ipad pro especially the ipad pro although some people do use it as more of a professional tool
1:06:32I also think that Apple has used the word pro to mean deluxe or
1:06:37you know, yes better more expensive just
1:06:41and when when you asked earlier what the names would be those are you know,
1:06:46iPad edition because they've used that for the top of the line. So yeah pro is just to Apple
1:06:53like you said it's to me it's a
1:06:57- A docs model.
1:06:58- And top of the line. - And secondarily though,
1:07:00here's the other, the flip side of it.
1:07:01So I don't think, and the ways they have used the word pro
1:07:04in product names, it doesn't always necessarily mean
1:07:07for professional use.
1:07:09But in the flip side, I think that an iPhone
1:07:13for professional use is, that's an actual thing.
1:07:17That's part of the ways that the world has changed
1:07:19since 10 years ago when the first iPhone came out
1:07:22is that there are an awful lot of people I know
1:07:25who their most used work computer is their phone.
1:07:29Awful lot of people,
1:07:30and either all the time or some of the time.
1:07:34And I've said this before,
1:07:36like Matthew Panzorino, who is the editor of TechCrunch,
1:07:39and Nilay Patel at The Verge I've talked to,
1:07:42both of them have said the same thing to me,
1:07:44that there are days where if they're traveling or something,
1:07:48their entire communication with their editorial staff
1:07:50goes through their phone.
1:07:51Those are publications where there are stories coming out
1:07:55every hour throughout the day.
1:07:57And as the people who run the publication,
1:08:00they need to be in charge,
1:08:01and they need to be in communication
1:08:03with their staff all day.
1:08:04Their phone is the only,
1:08:06that's the number one device on some days for them
1:08:08as a professional tool.
1:08:10And what are the things that professionals need
1:08:14out of their phone?
1:08:14Well, one of them is battery life.
1:08:16So like if this iPhone Pro,
1:08:18because it has an OLED screen
1:08:20and OLED takes less energy than LCD.
1:08:23And if it's because of the new shape,
1:08:25if they're able to put a bigger battery in there,
1:08:28and if they can advertise that it has
1:08:30significantly better battery life,
1:08:32or at least as much battery life as the Plus,
1:08:37but in a form factor that feels in your hand
1:08:39closer to a regular iPhone,
1:08:40that is a legitimate professional feature.
1:08:43Like your phone going dead before the day is done
1:08:47is a professional problem, it really is.
1:08:49So, and secondarily, the camera.
1:08:51If the camera is better, that's a professional.
1:08:54That is a pro feature.
1:08:55There are people who use their phones
1:08:57to take pictures in a professional context.
1:08:59Like, part of their job is taking pictures.
1:09:01- I don't even give that whole pro thing any thought at all.
1:09:06I just don't.
1:09:08I just don't agree with it to the point
1:09:10where I don't even think about it.
1:09:17I can use my phone for a computer if I want.
1:09:21I choose not to, but I can.
1:09:23If they have something that's better,
1:09:28better chips and better networking and better screen
1:09:32and all of this kind of stuff,
1:09:34the one big question that I have,
1:09:36and I tweeted maybe about a week ago,
1:09:39the only thing that I really want out of a new iPhone
1:09:41is to be able to read it in the sun.
1:09:46Will I be able to do that with this new screen?
1:09:48I don't know, I hope so. - It'll be a good feature.
1:09:51And it's funny, the people who think
1:09:53that they can't call it pro is that
1:09:55the pre-iPhone smartphone world,
1:09:58like when they used to call them smartphones
1:09:59and Blackberry was a thing, they were all professional.
1:10:02The advertising campaigns for all of those things
1:10:07were people in business suits.
1:10:09And it was meant for people who work at a big corporate
1:10:15with a quote enterprise IT division and stuff like that.
1:10:19So I just think it's silly to think they wouldn't.
1:10:23I also think, this is one of those things
1:10:26that I wanted to touch on,
1:10:27is among the things we don't know about this new phone
1:10:30is we don't really know anything about the camera.
1:10:32And the camera is a huge, it's probably the,
1:10:35it's the centerpiece of the last two years
1:10:37of iPhone advertising,
1:10:39is the Shot with iPhone advertising campaign.
1:10:41It's literally the number one thing
1:10:43that Apple uses to advertise phones now.
1:10:46I would presume that the 7S and 7S Plus will get
1:10:51the sort of upgrades to their camera
1:10:53that we're used to them getting every year,
1:10:55which is significant.
1:10:57It's one of those things that you really can
1:10:58just take a year old iPhone and see the difference.
1:11:01But I would think that the iPhone Pro
1:11:04is gonna get an even better camera.
1:11:06And I think it may not be about the lens and sensor,
1:11:09I think it's about the depth sensor
1:11:12it's rumored to have. That using an entirely different sensor for 3D depth perception,
1:11:21combined with having two lenses and through the magic of software, could lead to a serious
1:11:30like, "Oh my god, that's amazing. I can't believe that came out of a phone photography."
1:11:36That would be very exciting to me.
1:11:38I agree. I agree. And anything that they can do to help with photography and video and
1:11:47you know, all of that is just going to help sales because that is a huge thing. And the
1:11:52camera is one thing that's going to be huge for consumers and pros.
1:11:59Yeah, I think there's a reason why there's so much and for so long they've been using
1:12:05this shot with iPhone advertising campaign because I really think it works with regular
1:12:12people.
1:12:13Other names I've seen tossed about and I don't think they will use them.
1:12:17Some people have suggested they would call this the new high end, highfalutin phone the
1:12:21iPhone edition.
1:12:23I don't think they would do.
1:12:24I mean obviously they've used that name for Apple Watch twice, but I think the way they've
1:12:29used it with Apple Watch, especially the first time with the gold ones, but even with the
1:12:35ceramic one from last year, which is significantly lower in price and therefore far more approachable
1:12:40than the gold ones were. The name edition, it says even, it's not just the judging the
1:12:49products for themselves at $20,000 digital watches, but just the name edition, it was
1:12:56meant to be sort of like an asterisk almost, like a footnote in the product line. This
1:13:03This is something that is not going to sell in massive quantity.
1:13:08And I don't think that's going to be—that's not going to be the case with the iPhone at
1:13:11all.
1:13:12You know, and it's—it may not be the best-selling one.
1:13:15This may actually change the dynamics of the product mix.
1:13:21But it's, you know, much like the iPad Pro, I think it's, you know—and I think the
1:13:26iPad Pro is certainly not the best-selling iPad.
1:13:28I think that the lower-priced ones, I think, you know, right now probably the best-selling
1:13:31iPad has got to be that just plain iPad, you know, the one that starts at like $379.
1:13:37But they certainly sell far more iPad Pros than they sell Apple Watch editions. Like,
1:13:45edition just is too, it's too rarefied. And I don't think that's what their intent with
1:13:49this phone is at all. No, well, there, this is not a rarefied iPhone. This is the future of
1:13:59of the company right here.
1:14:01So they have to position it as such.
1:14:05Yes, it's gonna be, by all reports,
1:14:08hard to get ahold of for a little bit,
1:14:10but this is the future, this is the way the iPhone is going.
1:14:13- Oh, what about the rumor that all three iPhones
1:14:16are gonna have glass backs?
1:14:18I feel like that's gotten remarkably little attention.
1:14:21And the idea is that they need to,
1:14:23because they're all going to support contact charging,
1:14:28whatever you wanna call it.
1:14:29- No, I hate that wireless charging,
1:14:30but you put it on a little pad
1:14:33and it'll just charge on the pad,
1:14:35and that you can't do that with an aluminum back.
1:14:38That to me would be, if that's true,
1:14:41and I feel like it's really been under rumored,
1:14:44especially on the lower two ones,
1:14:46then there's no way they're gonna call them the 7S
1:14:48and the 7S Plus, because they only use the S
1:14:51when they literally look the same.
1:14:53And obviously having a glass back would not look the same.
1:14:56(laughing)
1:14:59- Well, and that would be one of these features
1:15:04that, like you said, they would change the name for.
1:15:08Because here you go, this is significantly different
1:15:10because we've updated the camera and we've got a glass back
1:15:14so it does the contact charging,
1:15:16and we've done all of these different things.
1:15:20And you know, every year, the S editions always get,
1:15:24you know, updated components inside.
1:15:25So they're, like you said before, they're always faster
1:15:28and they're better and everything else.
1:15:29So that is just another reason why calling them all
1:15:34iPhone 8s would make sense.
1:15:36Because here you're getting all of this technology as well,
1:15:40just in, you know.
1:15:42- Yeah, and if they all have this glass back,
1:15:45I can envision like some kind of photograph
1:15:48that shows all three from behind
1:15:50and makes them look like a family.
1:15:53You know, from behind they would look like
1:15:55they're all like, here's three amazing new iPhones,
1:15:57not just one amazing new iPhone and two other ones
1:16:00that you don't even care about, right?
1:16:02And whereas from the front, you won't get that
1:16:06because you'll have two that have this traditional chin
1:16:09and forehead at the top and bottom and one that doesn't
1:16:12and has this cutout around the screen that makes it look,
1:16:15gives it a different silhouette as like a,
1:16:18what it looks like when the screen is on.
1:16:20From the front, it's definitely gonna look like
1:16:22there's one phone that's not like the others,
1:16:24But from the back, if they all have a glass design,
1:16:28some kind of glass, that would be interesting.
1:16:30I think that's interesting too though,
1:16:32because they had glass backs and then moved away from it.
1:16:36And then to go back to it would be interesting,
1:16:38'cause that's not something Apple usually does.
1:16:40When they change materials,
1:16:41they usually just go in one order.
1:16:44They had the titanium G4 power book,
1:16:47and it was amazing and sort of, in my opinion,
1:16:51is probably the most influential design Apple in the computer world, in the PC world, has
1:16:58ever had. Because even today's MacBooks still, to me, seem like they're derived from that
1:17:03G4 titanium. There's this progression. I mean, and it's obviously thicker, and the keyboard
1:17:11was definitely way different. But it was just sort of like that's the look of the modern
1:17:16an Apple notebook compared to all the black plastic ones
1:17:20that came before it, right?
1:17:22But anyway--
1:17:23- Well, I think if they could've stayed with aluminum
1:17:26or a different type of metal, they probably would've.
1:17:29- When they switched from titanium to aluminum,
1:17:31they didn't go back to titanium three years later, right?
1:17:34There was a reason why they switched.
1:17:35It was like, 'cause the titanium could flake off.
1:17:39I think it was like painted or something.
1:17:42It didn't wear that well.
1:17:43And the breakthrough with aluminum
1:17:45was when they got to,
1:17:47they don't even talk about unibody anymore,
1:17:49but the fact that they could make these,
1:17:52their ability to drill out a solid block of aluminum
1:17:56in one continuous shape, it was the breakthrough.
1:18:00So it's interesting to me that they would go back to glass.
1:18:04And I wonder if there's some part of this
1:18:06because, that we're missing,
1:18:08that it's not just glass like the iPhone 4 and 4S were,
1:18:11that it's some other type of glass
1:18:13or that there's some other aspect to the story
1:18:15that we just, nobody even knows yet.
1:18:18- Well, I'm sure that that will come up.
1:18:20- Oh, I bet.
1:18:21(laughing)
1:18:23Let me think, anything else on the iPhone?
1:18:26Got the camera, got the glass back.
1:18:28Think it's gonna have a headphone jack?
1:18:32(laughing)
1:18:35Did you see the story?
1:18:36I gotta put it in the show notes.
1:18:37I don't know if you saw it in the shared note,
1:18:39but there's this YouTube video from a guy.
1:18:43It's like a half hour video of how he made,
1:18:46how he added a headphone jack to his iPhone 7.
1:18:50Like literally, I wouldn't,
1:18:52I don't want anything to do with that.
1:18:54And then when he says,
1:18:55oh, the Taptic Engine is still in the way,
1:18:57I was going, no, no, no.
1:19:00It's a fascinating video.
1:19:03I really enjoyed it.
1:19:06'Cause I just enjoy,
1:19:07I enjoy seeing somebody with an obsession.
1:19:09And this obviously became his obsession.
1:19:12But I don't understand it at all.
1:19:13I mean, this guy spent four months doing this.
1:19:17I don't know if he lives in China full time,
1:19:18but he's obviously an electronics enthusiast.
1:19:23And so it was interesting to me to get a peek
1:19:25at those markets in Shenzhen,
1:19:27where you buy all this amazing stuff.
1:19:30Did you see the part, it was like early on,
1:19:35where he needed to buy a new USB microscope,
1:19:37because his old one was a piece of junk.
1:19:40And so he goes to the store and gets one.
1:19:42And it's not like buying-- it's like just in a brown box
1:19:47with no labeling at all.
1:19:49It's just like a brown box that he's
1:19:51buying a USB microscope.
1:19:53But the saleswoman asked if he'd like
1:19:56to her to set it up for him.
1:19:58And he was like, sure.
1:19:59So she opened it up, assembled the whole thing.
1:20:01Like it needed assembly.
1:20:02She did the assembly for him, then powered it on,
1:20:05showed him how everything works, and then packaged it back up.
1:20:09and he was on his way, like, it's a type of service,
1:20:11you just don't get that anymore.
1:20:13I mean, arguably you could get that,
1:20:15you get it sort of at the Apple stores,
1:20:16but like, you know, like when you go to Best Buy,
1:20:18they don't like offer to put the stuff together for you
1:20:20for free and test it and make sure it works.
1:20:24- Yeah, it was an incredible video,
1:20:25but it scared me more than anything else.
1:20:28- Well, you know what's funny,
1:20:28and I thought the same thing,
1:20:30where it's a sign of my old age,
1:20:34where I'm thinking, oh man, you know,
1:20:37screwing around with the inside of your phone,
1:20:39like that. Like basically, I didn't finish it yet, so I'm not quite sure if he actually,
1:20:43if this is the technique he worked, but like 20 minutes in his strategy was to use one
1:20:50of Apple's lightning to USB or lightning to headphone jack adapters, put that in the phone
1:20:56itself and then wire the lightning end and solder it to the lightning connector on the
1:21:00back of the phone, you know, where the actual lightning connector was. So in other words,
1:21:04The basic idea of how he added a headphone jack to his phone
1:21:08is he embedded the lightning to headphone jack
1:21:11inside the phone and then drilled a hole
1:21:13where you could plug the thing in.
1:21:15But he had, like you said, he had to move things around
1:21:18on the logic board. (laughs)
1:21:20- Yeah, it was just, I was cringing.
1:21:22- Well, my thought, my old man caution, caution,
1:21:25is especially after last year's whole thing
1:21:27with the Galaxy Notes,
1:21:29it wasn't like people were hacking their Galaxy Notes.
1:21:31It's like right out of the factory,
1:21:32the things were catching fire.
1:21:34And it's like, there's a part of me that ever since that,
1:21:38I mean, we all know lithium batteries can be dangerous,
1:21:43and that it's a very tricky part of all of our daily lives,
1:21:47all these devices we have that have,
1:21:49literally have dangerous batteries inside them.
1:21:51Like screwing around with your phone like that
1:21:54seems like a fire in your pants, ready to happen.
1:21:58- Just waiting.
1:21:59- Right, where, you know, so like,
1:22:03I'm like that in all ways of life.
1:22:05Like when I was younger, like as a teenager,
1:22:06I used to ride a skateboard.
1:22:09So I see kids on the street doing tricks
1:22:12on their skateboard or something like that.
1:22:14I used to think like, wow, that was a cool trick.
1:22:15That's pretty cool, that looks cool.
1:22:16And now I see it, I think, oh my God,
1:22:18that kid's gonna kill himself.
1:22:19(laughing)
1:22:21You know, when he--
1:22:24I've seen kids just go sailing right through a red light
1:22:28on an intersection on a skateboard,
1:22:30just I guess trusting their ears
1:22:32that they don't hear any cars coming.
1:22:34And when I was younger, I would think,
1:22:35"Man, that's a bad ass move."
1:22:36And now I think, "Oh my God, that's a death wish."
1:22:39- Yeah, you're dead.
1:22:40- I wish there was a police officer here
1:22:42to pull you over and give you a stern lecture.
1:22:44(laughing)
1:22:45That's what I kept thinking about this guy with his phone.
1:22:48It's like, I feel like you've just made
1:22:50like a bomb ready to go off.
1:22:52- Yeah, well, and when he started drilling into the casing,
1:22:56I was going, "Oh, oh no, no, don't do that.
1:23:00"Don't do that."
1:23:01But he did.
1:23:02- And then, you know, more power to him
1:23:06if that's what he wants.
1:23:07- It just seems so not worth it to me.
1:23:09It really is, the no headphone jack,
1:23:13I know, it's trade-offs.
1:23:14I've said this ever since last year.
1:23:17I'm not saying it's a complete win,
1:23:19but it's like a two steps forward,
1:23:21one step back type thing.
1:23:22There's more steps forward than steps back,
1:23:25and it's fine, it's just fine.
1:23:28Even if you don't buy AirPods,
1:23:29but you should buy AirPods, it's just fine.
1:23:31- Yeah, I agree.
1:23:32Do you think we'll see any updates to AirPods?
1:23:35- I do not, I think it's too soon.
1:23:37I know they were announced at last year's event,
1:23:40but they didn't ship until just before Christmas.
1:23:44So even though they were announced a year ago,
1:23:46I feel like it's not even a year-old product yet.
1:23:48And the fact that they're still behind,
1:23:51a couple of weeks behind on the ones that we already have,
1:23:54I really don't think we'll see AirPods.
1:23:57I just think, I think the best we can hope for
1:23:59is that they can catch up with demand.
1:24:03- Yeah, I agree.
1:24:04I think that they'll catch up
1:24:05before they'll release anything new with that.
1:24:08- The only thing I can think of is maybe
1:24:11if they've identified some aspect of the production
1:24:14that this is why we're unable to make them fast enough.
1:24:18And if they could design,
1:24:20do something internally to fix that, they would.
1:24:24But I almost feel like if they did that,
1:24:26it would be like a silent update.
1:24:28Like it would be the, what are they gonna do?
1:24:30Change the way they look?
1:24:31I doubt that.
1:24:32- No.
1:24:34- So I don't think so.
1:24:36- What about Apple Watch?
1:24:38- That's a very good question.
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1:27:22All right, Apple Watch.
1:27:23I think, this is another one.
1:27:25Why aren't there more rumors about this?
1:27:28I think that there's going to be a brand new Apple Watch.
1:27:30And I think it's, I've heard,
1:27:33I heard from one little birdie who does not work at Apple.
1:27:37I won't say anything else about how this person
1:27:40claims to have known this.
1:27:40But so it's, you know, let's file this under sketchy.
1:27:44And not somebody who I would bet on,
1:27:48somebody I'd never heard of before,
1:27:49but someone who just happened upon this information
1:27:51says that it looks, you can tell,
1:27:52anybody who knows what an Apple Watch looks like
1:27:54can tell at a glance that the new one is different.
1:27:57I would guess, they didn't say anything to me
1:27:59about exactly what that means, what way that it's different.
1:28:02My guess would be that it looks basically
1:28:05like an Apple Watch, but maybe it's like thinner,
1:28:07'cause I think that's the one way
1:28:08that Apple Watch could definitely improve
1:28:09is by getting thinner.
1:28:10- Yeah, I agree, and what we don't know
1:28:16about Apple Watch is the sensors and everything
1:28:21that they're working on in there.
1:28:24And so there's definitely a lot of room
1:28:28for Apple to move on the watch.
1:28:32- There are rumors, the rumors that have been out
1:28:34are that they are going to have some models
1:28:38with cellular networking, independent cellular networking.
1:28:40And I can see, and that's the sort of thing
1:28:44you know exactly how that leaked. It leaked from the fucking carriers, right? It's sort of like how
1:28:50when Apple's TV deals leak, you know? Remember that story about Eddie Q going in to meet with HBO
1:28:58and he showed up with jeans and sandals or something? And a Hawaiian shirt or something.
1:29:06Yeah, and it's like, well, geez, I wonder who leaked that story. Was it Eddie Q or was it the
1:29:10The people complaining about the way Eddie was dressed.
1:29:13- Yeah. - Pretty obvious who leaked that.
1:29:15Well, you know that this Apple Watch
1:29:16with cellular networking leaked from the carriers.
1:29:19My guess is that's probably what,
1:29:21that they're gonna announce that.
1:29:23This is what Apple does, is they make,
1:29:27the first product's the hardest one to make.
1:29:29So the first Apple Watch was late,
1:29:32and it was, remember when it first shipped, it was,
1:29:36I mean, I think that they really wanted to ship it
1:29:40the holiday quarter before it actually came out.
1:29:43And it was eight months later than that
1:29:45when it actually started shipping.
1:29:48In the first few months, it was really hard to get.
1:29:50They were all sold out and back ordered.
1:29:52'Cause it's hard, the first product is hard.
1:29:54But then what does Apple do after that?
1:29:56Is they, every year, release a new version
1:29:59with a year's worth of subtle or not so subtle improvements
1:30:03or additional sensors, additional networking.
1:30:05So I'd be a little surprised
1:30:09if there's not a new Apple Watch next week.
1:30:11I really would.
1:30:12Now, you look at the navigation of the Apple Watch.
1:30:17Do you use your watch much?
1:30:21In between.
1:30:24It's one of--
1:30:25- Okay.
1:30:26- I do wear it a lot when I know I'm gonna be working
1:30:29all day 'cause I really love the unlocking of the Mac
1:30:32with the Apple Watch.
1:30:33- Yeah, me too.
1:30:34- But I hardly use that, the circular type navigation
1:30:39with the icons, it's cool.
1:30:41- No, never.
1:30:41Yeah, I never used it.
1:30:42- But I, you know, I'm just never there.
1:30:45- I think it's a design mistake.
1:30:47I don't think, actually they kind of--
1:30:50- Ah, I don't know if it was a mistake.
1:30:51- I do, I think it was a mistake.
1:30:53I think it's a bad UI.
1:30:55And I think that they, I think that's why there's,
1:30:57the watchOS 4 has a new list view for apps,
1:31:01where you can change the view from that round honeycomb
1:31:04to just a scrolling list.
1:31:06And I think that's a much better interface.
1:31:09bigger tap targets, and just a list.
1:31:12I never know where the hell my apps are in that honeycomb.
1:31:14It looks cool. - Well, yeah, there's that.
1:31:16- It looks cool, and the animation is cool,
1:31:19but to me, it's just not usable.
1:31:21I mean, and not like it's unusable,
1:31:23but it's, you know, the usability is poor, I would say.
1:31:27- But from a design and effects standpoint,
1:31:33it is a typical Apple type thing.
1:31:37- I think it's atypical because it's too confusing, I think.
1:31:41I don't know.
1:31:42I think that switching to a list.
1:31:44- Just from design, not usability.
1:31:46Leave usability.
1:31:48But I'm saying when you scroll around with it, it's cool.
1:31:52It's got that nice magnifying effect.
1:31:55And that part is good.
1:31:57- I think the reason why they've gotten away
1:32:00with a poor design for that screen
1:32:02is that most people don't need it anyway.
1:32:04You just don't need to launch apps on your phone.
1:32:07I mean, I don't know.
1:32:07- Yeah, that's true.
1:32:09- And I think it's no secret.
1:32:11I think Apple was upfront about it,
1:32:13especially with watchOS 3 last year,
1:32:15that hey, we've really narrowed down
1:32:17what this device is good for.
1:32:18It's good for notifications,
1:32:20and it's good for fitness tracking.
1:32:22- Yep.
1:32:23- And they focused the OS on that,
1:32:26and I think that they will continue to,
1:32:28whatever is new in the hardware will be focused on that.
1:32:31I mean, there was a story, who was it,
1:32:35Men's Health had earlier this week where they got to go
1:32:38behind the scenes in Apple's secret fitness lab
1:32:41where they had these freaky looking blue masks
1:32:46on the people exercising.
1:32:47They said they cost like $4,000 each,
1:32:49but they like can measure like the exact like input
1:32:52and output of the oxygen and stuff like that.
1:32:55I just don't think Apple would pitch an exclusive,
1:33:01"Hey, we'll give you a behind the scenes,
1:33:03at the secret lab, I don't think that they would do that at the end of August or early September
1:33:09if they weren't doing it to sort of ramp up excitement of fitness tracking with Apple Watch
1:33:15because there's going to be a new Apple Watch.
1:33:17Pete: Now, I haven't installed the new betas of WatchOS, but I understand that there's some new
1:33:25types of fitness tracking in there.
1:33:28Yeah, and somebody I forget where that like one of the new iOS betas somebody like
1:33:34It was you know, those spelunkers, you know that who can go through and find stuff
1:33:39They found evidence
1:33:41But they did they found evidence of like as yet unannounced exercises that you can do
1:33:45I mean that's exactly it's you know, so part of that is the OS but I think that if they can either
1:33:50Improve the sensors that already has or add additional sensors
1:33:54It's exactly what I would expect from Apple
1:33:57I mean, the one that would be the huge one,
1:33:59I don't think we'll get it this year, but who knows?
1:34:03But the big one is the blood sugar monitoring, right?
1:34:08So that people with diabetes can,
1:34:10it would just be, the life-changing aspect of that
1:34:16is almost indescribable.
1:34:17I mean, I'm lucky, I don't have diabetes
1:34:19or nobody in my immediate family does,
1:34:21but it's a common enough disease
1:34:23that everybody knows somebody who has diabetes.
1:34:24- Correct, yeah.
1:34:25And I know a couple of people who have kids with diabetes,
1:34:30and it's just bad for everybody. It's not a good disease. It's bad, but it's just like almost
1:34:37heartbreaking when somebody's kid has it, and every day they're pricking their finger. I mean,
1:34:41it's bad enough when you're an adult, but try telling a six-year-old kid that you've got to
1:34:46prick your finger every day. So if you could change that and have non-invasive blood sugar
1:34:52monitoring. Man, that would almost steal the show, really. I don't think we're getting that this
1:34:58year, though. It just seems too far. I'm too much of a pessimist to think that we'd be lucky enough
1:35:05to get that this year. Yeah, I mean, they have to be so careful with this stuff because people
1:35:10rely on it and it doesn't work. You can't say that you have blood sugar monitoring and then,
1:35:17Yeah, it works 50% of the time sort of, you know, yeah, I wonder too if they would
1:35:24if when they introduced that
1:35:27Because of all of the regulatory stuff that they would have to go through to get it approved
1:35:32I wonder if they would do something sort of like how when they pre-announced the watch itself that you know
1:35:39Seven months eight months before it actually shipped they could do that because they weren't hurting
1:35:44there are some things that Apple can pre-announce.
1:35:47Like if it's a new product that they're not hurting
1:35:49the sales of their existing ones,
1:35:51they can do it like with the watch.
1:35:53I wonder if they could do something like say,
1:35:55we've got a new sensor that can monitor blood sugar,
1:36:00but right now it's not approved,
1:36:03so it's not enabled in the OS,
1:36:05but you could buy it and we're gonna work
1:36:08with the regulatory people and enable this in the future
1:36:12once it meets all the stuff.
1:36:14to announce it first, then get it approved,
1:36:17and then ship a software update that turns it on.
1:36:20I don't know.
1:36:21I don't know if they would do that or not.
1:36:24I don't know if that's too much promising,
1:36:26'cause they can't guarantee
1:36:27when that's going to be available.
1:36:29Can you sell somebody, can you have people buy the watch now
1:36:32on the assumption that it's gonna get approved
1:36:33when you can't really guarantee
1:36:35that it's going to get approved?
1:36:36What if it doesn't?
1:36:38So maybe not.
1:36:39- I don't know how all that stuff would work.
1:36:42Magic stuff.
1:36:44they'll announce whatever they have at the show, you know, at the event. It's just all gonna be
1:36:51there. But how they turn it all on and everything. Yeah. But I definitely would expect that there'll
1:36:56be, you know, maybe not blood sugar mine, but new sensors, more accurate sensors, you know,
1:37:00there's all sorts of stuff they can do. And I think that they are laser focused on that fitness
1:37:05tracking and notifications angle. The notifications thing is certainly, that would be a big part of why
1:37:10you would want to add cellular networking, right? And the mystery to me is how are they
1:37:15going to sell that? With an iPad, when you get cellular networking, you pay 50 bucks
1:37:23a month or whatever, 25 for less data or whatever. It's completely independent of your cell
1:37:30phone, right? You can have a different carrier, which is actually what I like to do. My phone's
1:37:38on Verizon, I like to have an iPad with AT&T cellular so that when I'm in a hotel or something,
1:37:43if I want to use it for tethering my Mac to get networking instead of using hotel Wi-Fi,
1:37:48I've got double the chances of getting a strong signal because I've got two networks. But
1:37:52anyway, it's a totally separate device, totally separate billing. I mean, you can add a device
1:37:58like in our Verizon family plan. We can add an iPad if we want and have it in the same
1:38:04but you don't have to.
1:38:06Like, how would it work with a watch?
1:38:09Like, I don't, you know, like nobody's gonna,
1:38:11almost nobody's gonna--
1:38:12- I think it's gonna be the same thing.
1:38:13- But I don't want, I don't know though.
1:38:14I kind of feel like you'd kind of want it
1:38:16somehow paired with your phone somehow
1:38:19because like, if you got like a text message to your phone,
1:38:22wouldn't you want, you wouldn't want to have
1:38:23a separate phone number for your watch.
1:38:25- No, no, no, I'm saying it would be
1:38:27on the same type of network.
1:38:29- Oh, I see, right.
1:38:30- Yeah. - Right.
1:38:31Yeah, so that you can go out and still get, you know, receive a call, you know, is that
1:38:39is that going to be a part of it? You know, you have your AirPods on and you're out for a walk
1:38:46and a call comes and you don't have your phone, but you still have your watch. Right. You know,
1:38:51how much data will you be able to use, you know? And it certainly, you know, the watch has never
1:38:55had a lot of storage and it's always been hard to get stuff to it. I mean, like I've tried using
1:38:59Like Marco Armand has gone into detail about it,
1:39:02but I think he even pulled the feature from Overcast
1:39:05where he spent all this time on a version
1:39:09to get it to play audio independently on the watch
1:39:12so you could go away from the phone
1:39:13and still listen to your podcast.
1:39:15And it was so problematic in so many ways
1:39:17that he had to pull the feature.
1:39:18I mean, it's a hassle.
1:39:20But for streaming audio,
1:39:22and that's obviously what Apple's interested in
1:39:24with Apple Music,
1:39:25cellular networking is easily good enough
1:39:27so you don't have to worry about transferring
1:39:30and storing stuff on the watch.
1:39:33You could just go out, connect your AirPods
1:39:35and stream the music.
1:39:36- Yeah.
1:39:37- I mean, I probably, I don't think I would buy one.
1:39:41I don't think I wear a watch enough
1:39:42that I would want the cellular one,
1:39:43but I could see why some people would.
1:39:46- I wear a watch every, I wear the watch every day.
1:39:48So I would get, I would get sell, I would.
1:39:53- It's, you know, and again,
1:39:56it certainly plays right into the notifications thing.
1:39:59And if you work in some kind of context
1:40:02where you can't take your phone out easily,
1:40:04being able to get your notifications on your wrist
1:40:08would be fantastic.
1:40:09- Well, I,
1:40:11my watch allowed me to use my phone differently, you know?
1:40:18'Cause I get those notifications.
1:40:20So while we were just talking there, somebody texted.
1:40:25I don't have to pick up my phone, I just look at my watch.
1:40:28And I saw who it was and said,
1:40:30"Okay, I don't need to worry about that right now."
1:40:33So I'll call Tim back.
1:40:37That's no problem.
1:40:40- Yeah, so anyway, I do think we will get,
1:40:41I think we'll see new watches.
1:40:43Here's the big question I always get
1:40:44when I talk about new watch hardware is,
1:40:46do I think that they will be strap compatible
1:40:50with the existing Apple Watch straps?
1:40:53I have no idea.
1:40:53I don't know, the little birdie who told me
1:40:56that it's gonna be some kind of visual
1:40:59form factor change to it, said nothing about it.
1:41:02I would hope so.
1:41:04I would definitely hope so.
1:41:07- I would hope so too, but that's kinda like having
1:41:09everything on a new iPhone line up with the old case.
1:41:14- Well, but I think on the Watch it's a little different.
1:41:16You know, if you really-- if you'd really take--
1:41:19I've looked at it and thought about it.
1:41:20And I think the things that might change--
1:41:23you know, like, they could change the bezel around--
1:41:25have the display maybe go closer to edge to edge.
1:41:28You know, they could do all sorts of stuff like that.
1:41:32And if you look at where those channels are for where
1:41:37you slide the bands in, I could see the watch--
1:41:41I could see a fair amount of flexibility in their ability
1:41:43to make a new looking watch that would still have the same channels for those straps. Certainly
1:41:52people who have put a lot of money into their strap collection would want that. So I would
1:41:57think if it's not strap compatible it's because they've come up with something so much better
1:42:02that it was worth disappointing people for it.
1:42:04Tom Bilyeu (01h00m 10s): Yeah, and I think that they'll do what they
1:42:07can to make sure that it is strap compatible. I mean, like you said, there's a lot that
1:42:12they probably can change thickness
1:42:16or whatever it's gonna be,
1:42:18but it'll probably be the same size, edge to edge.
1:42:23- It's sort of like with the connectors,
1:42:25like where they got so much,
1:42:28I mean, I don't think it would be
1:42:29anywhere nearly as controversial
1:42:30if they do have a new or incompatible strap connector.
1:42:35It's not gonna be as contentious as it was
1:42:37when Apple switched from the 30-pin to Lightning.
1:42:40But I think the same sentiment is still there
1:42:42Apple doesn't make changes like that lightly. It's not like every two years there's a new phone connector
1:42:48You know, they realize that having your you know having that work with
1:42:53Device after device, you know year after year is a feature, you know
1:42:58And so I think that if they can keep it strap compatible
1:43:01They would I could I think they also realize like this isn't the sort of thing where somebody who already has four straps if they?
1:43:07Got the new watch is going to immediately replace all four straps and they're gonna make money on it by
1:43:12Selling additional straps. Well, and that people have accused Apple of that before - well, they just want to sell adapters
1:43:18No, they don't
1:43:19You know, they they make those decisions for different reasons than to sell a $10 adapter or $20 adapter
1:43:27Right. Well, I do think I agree with that
1:43:29But that's why I think it was a mistake for Apple to price the 30-pin to lightning adapter at whatever the cost was
1:43:36It was like either 19 or 29 dollars. I forget what it was, but whatever it was. It was too much
1:43:40They should have sold them for like 10 bucks. Yeah
1:43:42I think part of it and the reason they did wasn't to make money
1:43:47But because they just don't like selling things for less than $20
1:43:50And that even and I think they realized that with the headphone jack thing last year where they even said like the
1:43:59that that's the the
1:44:02Lightning the the replacement lightning to traditional headphone jack dinguses
1:44:10They even said it's the least expensive thing they've ever sold in an Apple store
1:44:13Well, because they really it really really just had no interest in making
1:44:17Making money by selling and now no. All right. Let me take one last break here
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1:46:31What else do we think might be happening in this event?
1:46:34- Well, there's not gonna be any Macs,
1:46:37and there's not going to be any iPod or iPads.
1:46:40- iPads are done for the year.
1:46:43- The only thing really left,
1:46:46and to me there's a bigger question than this
1:46:49than the piece of hardware,
1:46:51but the only thing really left is the Apple TV.
1:46:55- Well, there could be some stuff with iOS,
1:46:59like things that we don't know yet about iOS 11,
1:47:02because it seems like they're gonna switch
1:47:03the multitasking to go from the bottom.
1:47:05And you know how they got, too much complaint,
1:47:08starting with the first beta of iOS 11,
1:47:11they got rid of the thing where you could force touch
1:47:13on the left side of the screen to enter multitasking.
1:47:16Which again, I think is a change
1:47:19that they did not undertake lately,
1:47:20because there's, I know a lot of people
1:47:22who use that feature.
1:47:23I never really got into that.
1:47:24I was always a, I've always been a double click
1:47:26on the home button to multitask.
1:47:28But that seems like that could change.
1:47:32So I feel like there will be a fair amount of iOS demo time on stage.
1:47:37To be clear, at this event and at every September event, I always, I think iOS and macOS demos
1:47:50or news is a given because they'll be released shortly.
1:47:55So to me, an iPhone at this event is a given.
1:47:59And OS demos, also a given.
1:48:03- Yep.
1:48:04So yeah, Apple TV.
1:48:07I think that we, I will predict yes, Apple TV
1:48:10will have new hardware with 4K support.
1:48:13Hopefully, oh my God, please.
1:48:16You know how I said I don't clap?
1:48:17I will clap for this one if it comes with a new remote.
1:48:20(laughing)
1:48:21- You don't like the remote?
1:48:24No, well, I don't hate it as much as some people do,
1:48:29but it's my most used remote.
1:48:31Almost everything I watch on TV now is on Apple TV.
1:48:34I almost, and when I'm not,
1:48:36if I'm not watching Apple TV, it's TiVo,
1:48:41and TiVo stuff is stuff I watch with Amy,
1:48:43and she doesn't let me use the remote.
1:48:46(laughing)
1:48:48Oh my God, I love Amy.
1:48:53She thinks I'm way too slow on the trigger on commercials.
1:48:57- Wow. - How often,
1:48:58especially if the commercial comes on
1:49:00and it's a good commercial, I'll just watch it.
1:49:02'Cause I don't really hate commercials,
1:49:04but she hates commercials.
1:49:05And so if I've got the TiVo remote
1:49:08and we get five seconds into a commercial,
1:49:10she's like, "Give me that."
1:49:12So I don't really use it.
1:49:13So I use the Apple TV remote almost all the time
1:49:16when I'm watching TV, and it is not a great remote.
1:49:19It is flawed in a couple of ways.
1:49:21- So do you have one of these services like Hulu Live
1:49:25or YouTube or DirecTV Now or whatever?
1:49:30Where you watch live TV on Apple TV?
1:49:32- No, no, we've got real,
1:49:33no, we've just got traditional cable.
1:49:35That's why we have a TiVo.
1:49:37- Have you ever tried one of those?
1:49:38- I almost did because when we moved earlier in the year,
1:49:43I almost did because we got internet service working
1:49:48but couldn't get,
1:49:49It's such a pain in the ass with TiVo.
1:49:51You have to get these cable card things.
1:49:53They're these little, like, they look like an old,
1:49:56those old cards you used to have to put in a,
1:49:59remember those things you'd put in a power book
1:50:00to get other additional ports?
1:50:02Like, what were they called?
1:50:04- Or they had one for wireless networking.
1:50:06Remember it stuck over the side?
1:50:08- Yeah, that's how you got Wi-Fis.
1:50:10It was like, what were those called?
1:50:12This is why we need a chat room.
1:50:13Were they called Nubus cards or was that something else?
1:50:16- They were huge. - Whatever they were called.
1:50:17and they sleep halfway into the computer.
1:50:20- Yeah, so that's what a cable card is.
1:50:24And it's a way, it's a thing that you get from Comcast
1:50:27or whoever your cable provider is,
1:50:30so that they can verify that you are who you say you are
1:50:34and that you can't, you know,
1:50:35and once they're in, you can't take them out.
1:50:37And it's paired with a device, you know,
1:50:39so I can't take my cable card out of my TiVo
1:50:41and go to your house and watch "Game of Thrones"
1:50:44through the cable card, right?
1:50:45It's a way that, some kind of anti-piracy type thing.
1:50:50But it's a huge pain in the ass.
1:50:51And the cable guy, it was like the third or fourth time
1:50:54when they came to my house when they finally got one
1:50:56that was working.
1:50:57So I was on the cusp, but we had the internet working,
1:51:00so I was on the cusp of signing up for something like that.
1:51:02I was thinking about getting the Sony one,
1:51:04the PlayStation one.
1:51:06- Oh, PlayStation, yeah, I've heard good things
1:51:08about that one.
1:51:09- Yeah, and in Philadelphia, it's particularly good
1:51:11because it has, it seems like this is one of those things
1:51:13that varies from city to city, but in Philadelphia,
1:51:15has all four major broadcast networks,
1:51:18the local affiliates.
1:51:20But no, we don't have that.
1:51:22We got our cable cards working,
1:51:23and so we use TiVo to watch TV.
1:51:26I have an interesting aside on that.
1:51:29I love TiVo, and TiVo recently shipped a software update.
1:51:34It's probably the best software update they've ever had.
1:51:36They kind of refreshed their UI.
1:51:38Still isn't a great-looking UI,
1:51:40but it looks a lot less dated than it did.
1:51:43But the thing about TiVo is, TiVo is never lags, never.
1:51:48There's never even a fraction of a second of lag on video.
1:51:52Apple TV made this a lot better two years ago,
1:51:56like when you fast forward around in a movie
1:51:59or something like that or skip to a scene.
1:52:01But it's nothing like TiVo.
1:52:02TiVo is like when you open a movie on your Mac
1:52:06and you just move the head around in QuickTime Player.
1:52:11It's perfect, and you can go frame by frame
1:52:14if you really want to see something
1:52:15in frame by frame, slow motion.
1:52:17The remote never has any lag at all,
1:52:22at least for video playback.
1:52:23Like when you're navigating the UI, it's not perfect,
1:52:25but when you're doing video playback,
1:52:26which is the main thing TiVo can do, it's perfect.
1:52:31I know everybody, I don't know how they're still
1:52:33in business, because I know most people don't want
1:52:35to spend a couple hundred bucks on a DVR
1:52:38when they can get one for free from their cable company,
1:52:40but it's one of the most amazing products out there
1:52:44that people just don't,
1:52:45most people have never even tried.
1:52:48But the main thing that sort of irritates me
1:52:51in the back of my head is that TiVo,
1:52:53I think I first got one in 2000.
1:52:55I remember I saw it at Rich Siegel's house,
1:52:57the founder of Barebone Software.
1:52:59When I first started working there,
1:53:00he invited me and Amy over for dinner,
1:53:02and we saw it as TiVo.
1:53:03And as soon as we saw it and saw how it worked,
1:53:05we went out the next day and bought one
1:53:06because it was like, oh my, like I'd heard of it.
1:53:09And I was like, oh, you skip commercials
1:53:10and you can record shows or whatever.
1:53:11But then once you saw it, it was like, oh my God, I need that.
1:53:14But the thing is, it's using a computer.
1:53:16Fundamentally, a TiVo is like a PC.
1:53:19It's using a computer to empower you, the TV owner,
1:53:24to do what you want with video.
1:53:26Like, you wanna fast-forward commercials,
1:53:27you fast-forward commercials.
1:53:29You wanna skip this commercial, you skip the commercial.
1:53:33Like, so it was using a computer to give me,
1:53:36the person who owns this and is watching this,
1:53:38more power over what I'm watching.
1:53:40And the way the industry has gone
1:53:42in the intervening 17 years is we watch more and more video
1:53:47on computers, whether they're phones or Apple TVs
1:53:50or Rock You's, you know, almost everything now
1:53:53is going through a computer at some point, right?
1:53:56But what we as a society have allowed to happen
1:54:00is we've allowed the computers
1:54:01to make the commercials unskippable, right?
1:54:05Like, you know, you start watching "Game of Thrones"
1:54:08and you have to watch a 30-second spot
1:54:10for some other show.
1:54:12Or when you are on Hulu and you're watching shows on Hulu,
1:54:15the commercials, you can't fast forward them.
1:54:18They literally disable the fast forward button.
1:54:21We did that instead of TiVoing the Saturday Night Live--
1:54:26in the summer, Saturday Night Live had the little 30 minute
1:54:29weekend updates a couple of times, the fake news.
1:54:34And we didn't set the TiVo to record it.
1:54:37It sounds antiquated because the way--
1:54:39Everything's on demand now.
1:54:40And the fact that you have to tell the TiVo in advance
1:54:42what to record, it is old fashioned.
1:54:45It's certainly, I realize that.
1:54:48But then once you have it, you're in complete control.
1:54:50And you can just skip the commercials.
1:54:52And it's instantaneous and there's no penalty for it.
1:54:55There's no pause.
1:54:56Whereas when we watch the Saturday Night Live on Hulu,
1:54:59every commercial break, it's full length,
1:55:01just like watching on regular TV commercials,
1:55:03and you can't skip 'em.
1:55:05Like it's maddening to me that we've--
1:55:06- That's awful.
1:55:08We've taken the power away from the user
1:55:10and just given it to the shitheads who were running Hulu.
1:55:14And it's worse, the commercials are worse
1:55:17on these digital services than on real TV.
1:55:19'Cause on real TV, at least you don't see
1:55:21the same commercial twice.
1:55:22Whereas everywhere where I see commercials on digital TV,
1:55:25you get the same fucking two spots.
1:55:27Every time there's a commercial break,
1:55:28you see the same two goddamn commercials.
1:55:30And it makes me crazy.
1:55:32And I'm not even a totally anti-commercial person.
1:55:36But I'll tell you what, when I see the same
1:55:37stupid jingle for the third time in a half hour show,
1:55:40I wanna throw my remote through the TV.
1:55:42- Don't do it with your Apple remote.
1:55:44- No.
1:55:45So anyway, long aside there on praising TiVo,
1:55:49I do hope they change the remote, I really do.
1:55:52- Well, what would you do?
1:55:54- I would make it asymmetrical
1:55:55so that you can easily tell which way it's pointed.
1:55:58And anything they do after that is great.
1:56:01(laughing)
1:56:03I think they should somehow figure out a way.
1:56:07If they keep the touchpad, they should figure out
1:56:09a way to make it smarter about ignoring inadvertent touches.
1:56:13I don't know if that means putting it,
1:56:15like, recessing it a little bit so it isn't really edge to edge.
1:56:20I don't know.
1:56:20I'm not the product designer.
1:56:22I'm a product evaluator.
1:56:23And the current remote is problematic.
1:56:26Fundamentally, the biggest problem to me
1:56:27is that it's symmetric.
1:56:29And so if you pick it up, you don't know what side it is.
1:56:32I've fixed that with mine by putting a little band of gaff tape around the bottom part so
1:56:40that it feels different from the side.
1:56:42Every home should have at least two rolls of gaffer tape.
1:56:45Gaffer tape is the most amazing product in the world.
1:56:50Most people don't know about gaff tape.
1:56:52It's amazing.
1:56:53You might think it's like duct tape, but the whole point is that you know what it is because
1:56:58a musician, but it's like what gaffers use to tape microphones down or lights or something
1:57:04like that. But what makes it so great, it's this black stuff. It's sort of like a fabric
1:57:11and it's easily ripped by hand so you don't need scissors. And it rips straight because
1:57:15the fabric is sort of, I don't know, they somehow make it so that it rips straight.
1:57:21It's sticky enough to hold things in place and it's unsticky enough that when you're
1:57:25done, you just take it off and it doesn't leave a residue behind. It's like the perfect
1:57:28amount of stickiness.
1:57:30Anyway, I took a little narrow quarter-inch band of gaff tape, wrapped it around my Apple
1:57:36TV remote so then I can feel along the sides and I can tell which side's the front and
1:57:39back. But I feel like I shouldn't have to do that. That's ridiculous. Remote control
1:57:44should not be symmetric. Then secondarily, I think they got to make the touchpad way
1:57:50less likely to be inadvertently triggered.
1:57:53Hmm. The big question, I mean, 4k seems like an obvious thing. Like it's,
1:57:58they're actually behind the curve on that. People, real people,
1:58:02are they really, I mean,
1:58:04people have four keyed not, not, not, not like this is late to the game,
1:58:08but that it's, if it comes out this year,
1:58:10I would say it's perfectly on time for Apple. If it comes out next year,
1:58:13I would say they've, they've missed it by a year.
1:58:15Like this feels like the right time for Apple, for Apple TV to support 4k.
1:58:21Is there a lot of 4K content though?
1:58:22There's still not a lot.
1:58:24There's some. - No, but Apple
1:58:26can supply their own, right?
1:58:27And there's rumors that they just upgrade
1:58:30all the iTunes TV shows and movies that they can to 4K.
1:58:34I mean, and there's rumors,
1:58:36somebody was poking around iTunes or something,
1:58:37and it seems like iTunes is getting ready for 4K videos.
1:58:42- See, that would be great.
1:58:43If they could release, Apple never does anything,
1:58:46and we went through this with NFC.
1:58:49Apple's not gonna put NFC in a phone
1:58:52just so that they can check a box
1:58:54and say that they have it without a valid use for it.
1:58:57So if they're gonna release a 4K Apple TV,
1:59:00I would have to assume that they've got
1:59:02some 4K content to go in there.
1:59:04And for them to release Planet of the Apps in 4K,
1:59:08not gonna do it.
1:59:09They have to release some quality shows and movies
1:59:13in 4K so that you can enjoy that.
1:59:16- Yeah, switch it so that when you just,
1:59:18when you rent a new blockbuster movie,
1:59:21if you've got the new Apple TV, you get it in 4K.
1:59:23- Right, right.
1:59:25So the bigger question for me about Apple TV,
1:59:30if you remember when they did the,
1:59:33when they announced the new Apple TV with this new remote,
1:59:39they said this is the future of television.
1:59:42And that was-- - Apps.
1:59:44Apps are the future of television.
1:59:46- Yes, that was at Bill Graham.
1:59:48- Right.
1:59:49- They said that apps was the big thing.
1:59:51So to me, the big question with Apple TV is content.
1:59:56Have we really seen a big difference?
2:00:02I mean, we have single sign-on and that,
2:00:05for me, that doesn't work completely yet
2:00:07because I have Comcast.
2:00:09But Apple seems to be on a hiring spree.
2:00:13widely rumored to have a billion dollar budget
2:00:18for original content.
2:00:19So it's an interesting question.
2:00:21I feel like as a device, this is pretty easy to predict.
2:00:24It'll be a look, there's no reason to change
2:00:27the way it looks.
2:00:28A nice little black puck is a fine design.
2:00:30Add 4K support.
2:00:32Hopefully improve the remote, done, right?
2:00:36The hardware, that's it.
2:00:38I mean, they could do more, I guess,
2:00:39but that's really all they need to do.
2:00:41It's really the content is the question.
2:00:44And I almost feel like it's a confused product.
2:00:46I'm not even sure Apple knows exactly what to do with it
2:00:49because Amazon's TV thing is meant to,
2:00:54yes, you can get Netflix and there's apps for other things,
2:00:58but the main thing is that Amazon itself
2:01:00has their own original content and you can buy their device
2:01:04and watch the Amazon shows.
2:01:09And like a RockYou is a completely neutral device.
2:01:14RockYou doesn't do any original content.
2:01:16They just have apps for everything and developer APIs
2:01:19and people seem, and they keep the price very low.
2:01:22It seems like, that's sort of like a,
2:01:25one of the few, I can't think of,
2:01:27it's very hard to think of a company like RockYou
2:01:29that's having as much success as they are
2:01:31against these big companies like Apple and Amazon.
2:01:34Like it's a tale of a little independent hardware company
2:01:38that's doing very well.
2:01:39And part of why they're doing well
2:01:41is that they're sort of like Switzerland, right?
2:01:42They're like completely neutral.
2:01:43Like they don't favor Amazon over Netflix.
2:01:48They're just completely neutral, right?
2:01:51So is Apple TV supposed to be like that
2:01:54where everybody is equal?
2:01:56It never really has been
2:01:58because even though Apple doesn't have original content,
2:02:00they've always sold and rented their own movies
2:02:04and TV shows, not their movies and TV shows,
2:02:07but it's like you pay Apple and iTunes to rent Wonder Woman.
2:02:12- But I think that they become more equal in recent years
2:02:17as you search for things and it brings up,
2:02:19oh, do you wanna watch that for free on Netflix
2:02:22or would you like to buy it?
2:02:23So I think that the equalization is starting to happen.
2:02:27- Right, but at what point if Apple makes this push
2:02:30into original content and that there are TV shows
2:02:34and/or movies that are only available through iTunes
2:02:38or Apple Music or whatever way they would have it.
2:02:42Right now, you get their original content
2:02:43through Apple Music.
2:02:44At what point does that mean that they're competing
2:02:51with Netflix as opposed to a partner with Netflix
2:02:54where Netflix gets a first-class,
2:02:56is a first-class experience on Apple TV?
2:02:59- I don't think that would be in question, would it?
2:03:01I mean--
2:03:02I don't think, I don't know though, you know?
2:03:04And it's different, you know what I mean?
2:03:07What is the point of Apple TV?
2:03:09Is it to be the best TV experience for any and all TV?
2:03:13Or is it meant primarily for Apple's own content?
2:03:16I don't think it's necessarily in conflict.
2:03:20I think that there's a way that they can do this,
2:03:22but to me it's a more confusing product right now
2:03:26than it was when it first came out,
2:03:29back in the old days.
2:03:30So it was really just sort of like,
2:03:31This is a way to rent TV shows and movies from iTunes.
2:03:35- Yeah, I don't think any content that Apple gets into
2:03:40is gonna affect its partnerships with Amazon
2:03:46or Netflix or anything else.
2:03:49I think they're all gonna be,
2:03:50I mean, Apple realizes that we want access to all of it.
2:03:53If we can't get access to all of it on an Apple TV,
2:03:57we'll go somewhere else.
2:03:59- Yeah, I do think they get that,
2:04:00'Cause the holy grail is to be,
2:04:03I think I'm still in online from John Siracusa here,
2:04:05but you wanna be HDMI one, right?
2:04:07You wanna be the device that gets plugged
2:04:11into the first HDMI.
2:04:14The one, when you first turn your TV on,
2:04:16you want it to be, you don't have to switch the inputs
2:04:19to get to that device.
2:04:21The holy grail is to, and to keep you there
2:04:23for as much of your TV watching as possible.
2:04:26'Cause switching, once you have to switch,
2:04:28It's it always is that this sucks.
2:04:30I agree.
2:04:32So, so Apple has $1 billion to go towards content.
2:04:37Now, just for comparison, Netflix spends five to 6 billion in original content.
2:04:47So, you know, when you first look and when we first heard of Apple's 1 billion
2:04:53con a $1 billion content budget, you think, holy crap, that's
2:04:58a lot of money. But in actual fact, it's not, not in comparison to what others are doing.
2:05:04So, and the thing I read was, and it makes a lot of sense to me was that when Netflix first got into
2:05:10original content, it was with like a billion dollar a year budget. And it was the same with Amazon.
2:05:16When Amazon first got into it, it was about, and it's not so much how much money do you have as a
2:05:21company, it's that practically speaking, you can't really spend more than a billion dollars when your
2:05:27first getting into it.
2:05:29Part of the reason that you can spend more
2:05:33in years down the road is that part of that money
2:05:35is going to the shows you've already got.
2:05:38It's like season two of Stranger Things
2:05:41is part of that 5.6, five to six billion
2:05:44that Netflix is spending.
2:05:45Whereas Apple's obviously would all be
2:05:48the first year of every series.
2:05:50I guess that's the point.
2:05:52It's not Apple TV itself, but this push
2:05:54into original content that sort of, to me,
2:05:57What is Apple's goal in this is it to be the best it provide the best experience for other?
2:06:02Any and all content makers or is it to present their own original content? I think it's both
2:06:09I really do think it's both. I don't think that Apple is going to
2:06:12punish other content makers because they have original content now I
2:06:18think that they're gonna put it all out there and everybody's gonna get an app and you know,
2:06:24What the the user decide but you know when it comes to content is Apple gonna what?
2:06:29Are they gonna make shows
2:06:33That are great shows like great great shows like you know
2:06:37Ray Donovan or or the Breaking Bad or something with swearing or sex scenes or stuff like that or are they gonna do all?
2:06:44PG shows
2:06:46Yeah, I don't know. I wrote about that. You know because Disney you know
2:06:51Back in the 80s Disney remember they had touchstone. It was a wholly owned subsidiary. I think they got rid of it
2:06:56I don't think they make movies anymore
2:06:57But it was like because Disney wanted to make stuff that would they would wouldn't put under the Disney brand so they
2:07:02Created touchstone, which is really just a wholly owned subsidiary of Disney and like, you know
2:07:08Like I think Beverly Hills cop for example was a touchstone movie
2:07:11Don't ask me how I remember that I could be wrong. Maybe it was might have been paramount might have been paramount
2:07:16anyway, but there were movies like there there were movies like
2:07:20Beverly Hills Cop that came out. And so here's a way Disney could have Eddie Murphy swearing
2:07:24and telling off-color jokes without selling their brand. I don't know how Apple could
2:07:29get away with that, but I could see that they just do it. Just have a show and just put
2:07:35a rating in front of it and that's it. They certainly rent you right now. They'll rent
2:07:40you any and all major motion pictures through... In other words, I think I might be overthinking
2:07:46If iTunes will rent me R-rated movies,
2:07:51why wouldn't Apple's original content
2:07:55include R-rated TV shows?
2:08:00- Yeah, I mean, explicit songs on iTunes.
2:08:05- Right, they're just clear about labeling.
2:08:09Right, the Apple way isn't not to sell you explicit songs,
2:08:12it's to make sure you're aware that it's explicit.
2:08:14- Yeah, I hope that they do.
2:08:16I hope that they don't just do PG-type shows.
2:08:20I hope that they go in and do some blockbuster shows
2:08:25with all these people from Sony that they're getting.
2:08:28- Well, did you see the rumor this week
2:08:30was that Apple is a serious bidder
2:08:32for the rights to James Bond franchise.
2:08:35- Yes, what do you think about that?
2:08:37- Somebody wrote, I saw somebody on Twitter
2:08:40who seemed to, just a random retweet from somebody,
2:08:43but somebody who seems to know what they're talking about,
2:08:45like that somebody who follows the entertainment industry
2:08:48said that they think there's no chance
2:08:50that they would select Apple,
2:08:53simply because Apple, you know,
2:08:54they need a movie distributor,
2:08:56and Apple has never distributed a movie,
2:08:57and so even if the money was good,
2:08:59the people, you know, the Eon Productions,
2:09:01who owns James Bond, aren't gonna wanna
2:09:04go with an untested quantity for this,
2:09:08and it's, Apple probably knows this,
2:09:10and that they're bidding just to,
2:09:12it's a signal to Hollywood that they're serious.
2:09:15I don't know though, it seems to me like Apple
2:09:16isn't one to make token gestures.
2:09:18I think if they're bidding, if they're bidding,
2:09:20they're serious.
2:09:21And maybe they would just partner with an existing studio
2:09:25to get their feet wet.
2:09:27Anyway, I think it would be fantastic.
2:09:29And I can totally see it, I think they're exactly right
2:09:31like with the way, and I know some people roll their eyes
2:09:33at this so-called extended universes thing,
2:09:36like with Marvel and DC and Star Wars, of course now,
2:09:41is becoming this bigger something with TV shows
2:09:45and with multiple spin-offs and movies and stuff.
2:09:48I could totally see that working with James Bond.
2:09:50I think it would be fantastic.
2:09:52- Maybe I could be the next Bond.
2:09:54- I could see that, yeah.
2:09:55(laughing)
2:09:58You have lost weight.
2:10:00- Yeah, you know, I'm a handsome guy.
2:10:03There's no denying that.
2:10:05- I will say this.
2:10:06I think a lot of people underestimate Apple's potential
2:10:09and on a lot of podcasts I listen to,
2:10:12it seems to me like the consensus is basically
2:10:14Apple totally is inept and sucks at original content
2:10:18because the first two examples we have,
2:10:21Planet of the Apps and the Carpool Karaoke are not good.
2:10:25Although I haven't watched the Carpool Karaoke yet.
2:10:28I did watch Planet of the Apps and it was,
2:10:30I could, had trouble getting through the first episode.
2:10:33Just boring.
2:10:34And, but I don't see any reason,
2:10:39I think these just happen to be the first shows.
2:10:41I don't think it's indicative of anything
2:10:43of their big plans, right?
2:10:46Like what was Netflix's first show?
2:10:48Nobody even fucking remembers, right?
2:10:49I don't know.
2:10:50- That's why I say Apple's making a big push.
2:10:54They're hiring these Sony execs
2:10:56that are great at making content
2:11:00and they're getting them in there
2:11:02and that's exactly what they need.
2:11:04They don't need original content done by Jimmy Iovine.
2:11:08They need original content done by TV guys
2:11:12that have been in the business for a long time
2:11:14and know what the hell they're doing
2:11:15and they go out and make a Breaking Bad
2:11:18or something that's just gonna go way over the top.
2:11:21And I have no doubt in the next couple of years,
2:11:24Apple's gonna have a big hit.
2:11:26- Yeah, yeah.
2:11:27And it's, they suck at original content
2:11:30only until they don't.
2:11:31And I don't think that the existing shows
2:11:34are any indication of what it could
2:11:37or what they intended to be.
2:11:38They just happened to be first.
2:11:40I think the more interesting thing is why.
2:11:41Why are they doing this?
2:11:42Do they feel they have to,
2:11:43or is it just something they wanna do?
2:11:45And I think they don't have to do it.
2:11:49I don't think there's any reason that they have to do this.
2:11:51I think they want to do it because
2:11:53they want that services number to go up,
2:11:58and it is going up,
2:11:59and one way to get that services number up
2:12:01is get more and more people to subscribe
2:12:03to a $20 a month service.
2:12:06I mean, what does Apple Music cost?
2:12:08Is it $20 a month?
2:12:09$10 a month? - No, and $10 a month.
2:12:11- $10 a month.
2:12:12And a side question on that is,
2:12:16well, right now their original content
2:12:18is part of Apple Music.
2:12:21You pay for Apple Music, and if you do pay for Apple Music,
2:12:23then you can watch their shows.
2:12:25Will that stay the same?
2:12:28I mean, one reason,
2:12:29or are they gonna have a separate Apple TV service?
2:12:32Like, you could pay for Apple Music,
2:12:33and you pay $10 a month to get music.
2:12:34You pay $10 for Apple TV
2:12:36and you can watch Apple's TV and movies.
2:12:39I don't think so.
2:12:40I think it makes a lot more sense
2:12:41that it would be one subscription.
2:12:42- Yeah, they don't wanna have
2:12:43too many subscriptions hanging around.
2:12:45- I think that they realize that it's so hard
2:12:48to get people to pay for one thing.
2:12:50It just doesn't make sense to have them pay more.
2:12:54- Yeah.
2:12:55- Or to try to get them to pay for a separate thing.
2:12:58My question would be if they keep it under Apple Music,
2:13:00do they keep the name Apple Music?
2:13:03- Yeah.
2:13:03- It would be funny 'cause it would be exactly like iTunes.
2:13:07iTunes is a name that says, oh, this is about music
2:13:10'cause it says tunes.
2:13:13And over the years, this is how you restore your iPhone.
2:13:18(laughing)
2:13:22- Yeah.
2:13:25- Right, like from when did iTunes come out,
2:13:27like 2001 or so?
2:13:28- Yeah, something like that, yeah.
2:13:30- Or 2000 or 2001, it was right before,
2:13:32the iPod came out in 2001.
2:13:33So I think iTunes came out earlier that year,
2:13:36so let's say around 2001.
2:13:37So between 2001 and just 2007,
2:13:41it turned into what was once just a music playing app
2:13:44and then became the thing you used
2:13:45to activate your iPhone on AT&T.
2:13:48It would be funny to see Apple Music follow the same path
2:13:51where it's called music.
2:13:52It seems like it's pretty obvious that that's about music
2:13:54and all of a sudden you're using it
2:13:55to watch movies and game shows.
2:13:57- Agreed.
2:13:58I agree.
2:14:00- Anyway, do you think, so do you think, anyway,
2:14:03- We spent all this time, we didn't say
2:14:04whether we think they're gonna have anything
2:14:06to announce next week on that front.
2:14:08Are they going to have like?
2:14:09- Yeah, they'll have something, I think.
2:14:12- They did say, they even said at WWDC,
2:14:14they pre-announced that they've worked out a deal
2:14:16with Amazon to get Amazon to have an app on Apple TV.
2:14:20- Yes.
2:14:20- Which has been a big sticking point of that.
2:14:22It's the biggest missing thing on Apple TV
2:14:26in terms of stuff that you can watch digitally
2:14:28that you can't watch on Apple TV.
2:14:30Amazon was the one that really stuck out.
2:14:32- Yeah.
2:14:32So I see I put that in the category of OS updates.
2:14:37So iOS, watchOS, TVOS, MacOS.
2:14:42I think that there'll be a little something on everything, just a little update.
2:14:48You know, especially if they have something coming.
2:14:51Oh, TVOS now we have single sign on with Comcast and that all works now.
2:14:55And you know, just quick, a quick mention.
2:14:58It's not, you know, they're not going to spend 10 minutes on it, but quick mention.
2:15:02then here's the update to Apple TV and boom gone everybody's going to be waiting for iPhone
2:15:07news that's that's what we're there for.
2:15:12So do you do you think that they will do you think they'll mention Amazon again I think
2:15:16they probably will.
2:15:17Oh I think they will yeah yeah yeah.
2:15:20I think that's an interesting treaty.
2:15:23Yeah you know that they've made peace did you see the news this week that Amazon is
2:15:26is working with Microsoft to get Alexa to speak to Cortana
2:15:31and Cortana to speak to Alexa.
2:15:33I thought that was interesting too,
2:15:35but it's like I wrote on "Daring Fireball,"
2:15:37like this is not the right path, I don't know.
2:15:41Like telling, saying, verbally saying,
2:15:44"Alexa, please open Cortana
2:15:47"and then let me speak to Cortana,"
2:15:49and it's just not the way you're supposed
2:15:51to talk to these things.
2:15:52Like you're supposed to just talk naturally.
2:15:54- Yeah.
2:15:56- Yeah, I agree, I agree with you.
2:15:57It just, I don't know.
2:16:00Some of this stuff is just getting weird.
2:16:02- So we've got the smart, some smart lights
2:16:05and smart shades, window shades.
2:16:10And right now they're hooked up to the Amazon things.
2:16:15And we can talk about HomePod briefly in a moment.
2:16:19So we've got the, but the main,
2:16:22so we've also got little remotes to make them go up and down
2:16:25but it's nice 'cause we have a lot of shades
2:16:26and then you can just hit a button
2:16:28and by pressing one button,
2:16:30all the shades go up at the same time
2:16:33and or they all go down.
2:16:34So you don't have to sit there.
2:16:35It's a very nice, it's a first world problem
2:16:39walking around the house and manually opening up
2:16:41and closing shades.
2:16:43It is nice to have it be automated.
2:16:45But to do it through Alexa,
2:16:48you have to say,
2:16:53I don't know if I'm gonna trigger people's Alexas,
2:16:56but I'm sorry if I do, but you have to say like,
2:16:57"Alexa, turn on living room shades down."
2:17:02'Cause we have a scene defined,
2:17:06you make these things called scenes,
2:17:09and the scene says like, for example,
2:17:11"Turn these three shades down," or something like that.
2:17:15You have to give it a name.
2:17:16And so the name would be living room shades down.
2:17:19And then you can make another one living room shades up.
2:17:23- Huh.
2:17:24- Or you could name it, fuck you, and say fuck, right?
2:17:29And you can define a scene called fuck you,
2:17:32and fuck you means, like, you could say
2:17:34it has all the shades down, because you don't want
2:17:36anybody looking in your house.
2:17:38And then to trigger that scene, you'd say,
2:17:40Alexa, turn on fuck you.
2:17:42But linguistically, it just sucks.
2:17:46- Yeah.
2:17:47- You can't just say, Alexa, turn my shades down,
2:17:50right here, you know, which is what,
2:17:52But if you had a real living assistant, you could boss around.
2:17:56You would just say, hey, raise all the shades here.
2:17:59And your assistant knows where you are because they're obviously within listening distance,
2:18:05and so they know what you mean.
2:18:06But the linguistic things, this turn on name of scene is ridiculous.
2:18:13And I don't know which aspects are limited by Amazon and which are limited by Lutron,
2:18:18which is the name of the company we got the shades from.
2:18:21but you're not allowed to use the words on or off
2:18:23in the name of a scene either.
2:18:25You can use words like up and down,
2:18:26but like for lights, you can't name, say like, turn on.
2:18:30I just use the light switches.
2:18:34(laughing)
2:18:36- Oh my God, that's priceless, yeah.
2:18:42- I just use the light switches.
2:18:43- Yeah, that's what I do too.
2:18:45- I don't know.
2:18:49So I think that Apple's onto something
2:18:50where there was an article this week
2:18:52about Siri's voice quality improving.
2:18:55And Jaws was talking to David Pierce of Wired
2:18:59and complaining about that same thing,
2:19:03that with the competing products from Amazon and from Google,
2:19:07you need to issue these precise command line perfect,
2:19:11exact same words in the right order.
2:19:14It's not conversational at all.
2:19:17So I think Apple has the right strategy with Siri
2:19:19of making it truly be like, understand what you're saying.
2:19:23But I thought it was a weird article
2:19:25'cause it was really just bragging about
2:19:27the new and improved voice in iOS 11.
2:19:29And Siri does sound better, it sounds far more natural.
2:19:32Doesn't quite sound natural, natural,
2:19:34but it sounds more natural,
2:19:35which is obviously an improvement.
2:19:37But how many people, if you could choose between,
2:19:41I would like to have a better sounding Siri
2:19:43that works exactly the same,
2:19:44or I would like have a Siri that sounds the same,
2:19:47but works better?
2:19:48Like everybody I know just wants Siri to work better.
2:19:51- Yeah, that's what I want.
2:19:52- So I thought that was a weird article.
2:19:54I really thought it was a weird thing
2:19:55for Apple to be bragging about.
2:19:56I mean, it is a nice thing that the voices improve,
2:19:59but to me that's like the last thing on the list.
2:20:01Like the old Siri voice was fine.
2:20:04- Yeah, just make it work.
2:20:06Make it understand what I want.
2:20:08That's all I want.
2:20:10It's like the iPhone, you know?
2:20:12I just wanna be able to read it in the sun.
2:20:14(both laughing)
2:20:15That's it, that's it.
2:20:17Keep everything else. - All right, Jimmy,
2:20:18- Anything else you wanna talk about this week?
2:20:20I think we got it.
2:20:21Anything else you expect on the show?
2:20:22I think that's it for the event next week, right?
2:20:24It's gonna be iPhones, iOS.
2:20:26Do you think that, all right, I guess the last but not least
2:20:29is HomePod, do you think there's gonna be anything
2:20:30about HomePod?
2:20:31- They might do an update because we're expecting it
2:20:34any time now.
2:20:35But I think that they'll do an update if they have something
2:20:39that else that they're willing to share.
2:20:41'Cause if you remember at WDC,
2:20:44there's a lot that they wouldn't talk about.
2:20:46like the Siri integration and all that.
2:20:48If they're willing to talk about that stuff,
2:20:51then they may do a segment on it during the keynote.
2:20:56If they're not ready to talk about that stuff yet,
2:20:59I don't think we'll see it.
2:21:00- I thought, the more I think about it after WWDC,
2:21:03I think it's very clear in hindsight
2:21:06that the way that they preannounced HomePod,
2:21:09and again, there's a perfect example
2:21:10of a product Apple's willing to preannounce,
2:21:12because anybody who hears the pitch for it and thinks,
2:21:16hmm, I might get that, they're only making a decision
2:21:19not to buy a competitor's product, right?
2:21:22It's not like it's hurting the sales
2:21:24of any existing Apple products, so they preannounced it.
2:21:27The way they preannounced it to me seemed very strategic
2:21:30that they only told us about things that can't be copied.
2:21:35I guess what it looks like could be copied,
2:21:39But in terms of not letting anybody touch the demo units
2:21:44and not really telling us so much about how it works,
2:21:48I almost feel like that's because they thought
2:21:50if we tell people how it works,
2:21:51we're worried our competitors are gonna copy it.
2:21:54And by holding it out until it actually ships
2:21:58is every month that the features that might get copied
2:22:01are left behind.
2:22:02So that's my guess.
2:22:03- They could announce a ship date.
2:22:05- I don't know.
2:22:08It would be like an under promise and over deliver thing
2:22:11if it's, you know, surprise, it's ready to sell
2:22:14or we're gonna put it on, you know,
2:22:16it's gonna go on sale the first week of October
2:22:17or something like that.
2:22:19'Cause I think based on WWDC, it made it sound like
2:22:22it wasn't gonna ship 'til like December or something.
2:22:24- Exactly, so yeah, that would be a great thing.
2:22:27But they're gonna try their best to get all of these things
2:22:30out in time for the holiday shopping season.
2:22:32- That would be, you know what would be an interesting angle
2:22:35would be if the new Apple TV integrates with the HomePod
2:22:40so that it would seamlessly let you use your HomePod
2:22:43as the speakers for your TV.
2:22:45- Yeah, and as you know, having seen it,
2:22:49there are no optical or HDMI-type things to put in there,
2:22:54so it would have to go over the network and connect to that,
2:22:57which I'm sure Apple could do some way.
2:22:59- Yeah, well, think about AirPods, right?
2:23:01- Yeah.
2:23:03- Like two things that communicate over the air
2:23:06and have to be in perfect sync
2:23:09or else you would go insane, right?
2:23:10Like if one AirPod was a 16th of a second
2:23:13behind the other one,
2:23:14(laughing)
2:23:17you'd throw 'em in the gutter, right?
2:23:19I mean, you'd smash 'em, it would make you insane.
2:23:23So in terms of being able to wirelessly sync
2:23:27at least within, let's just say,
2:23:29a room distance, literally down to the smallest perceptible fraction of an inch to keep two
2:23:38things, a stream of wireless audio in sync.
2:23:42I would say AirPods are existence proof that Apple can do it.
2:23:46I think that would be really cool.
2:23:47It really would be.
2:23:49And then it really makes the HomePod seem like, it makes the appeal seem way, way higher
2:23:56to me, 'cause then it's the one audio device
2:23:58I have to put in my living room.
2:24:00I don't have to have a separate one for music.
2:24:02You know what I mean?
2:24:03That to me is the weird thing
2:24:04about the original HomePod pitch,
2:24:05is that it is just for music and maybe podcasts.
2:24:08And it just seems weird to me.
2:24:11I could see in your kitchen, maybe that makes sense,
2:24:14because you don't really watch TV in your kitchen.
2:24:18You just listen to stuff.
2:24:20But as a living room device, it seems weird to me
2:24:22to have a really nice speaker that only is used for music.
2:24:27And then when you watch TV, you have to have something else.
2:24:30Yeah.
2:24:31So I would love that.
2:24:32I would love it if they announced that Apple TV and HomePod work
2:24:37together.
2:24:39We'll see.
2:24:39And you know what's interesting about that, too,
2:24:42is it would mean, though, that all the other stuff you
2:24:47do on your TV, like if you have a TiVo,
2:24:48or if you have a PlayStation, or a DVD player,
2:24:51would still need their own audio.
2:24:53- Right, so I have a full Sonos system now, so.
2:24:56- Right, exactly, right.
2:24:58So that's, you've already, I've put off,
2:25:00that's one reason I've put off getting a Sonos,
2:25:03is just, I wanna hear the whole HomePod story
2:25:07before plunking the money down on that.
2:25:10Because if I can use the HomePod for more of it,
2:25:12that would be interesting.
2:25:13But it would be, like I said,
2:25:14like the holy grail is to have your TV playing computer,
2:25:19your Apple TV or your Roku or your Amazon Fire TV
2:25:22or whatever to be HDMI one, the main thing.
2:25:25If you get way better audio when you watch Apple TV
2:25:29than when you watch anything else on your TV,
2:25:32that's gonna make Apple TV more likely
2:25:34to be like your main go-to thing.
2:25:36Like for example, I guess the canonical example of that
2:25:39would be which device do you use to watch Netflix?
2:25:42'Cause Netflix is the one where like everything has it.
2:25:45Right, you're just most modern,
2:25:46A lot of TVs literally have it built in.
2:25:49The TV itself has a Netflix.
2:25:52- I always use Apple TV.
2:25:53- Right, we can use, I do, that's what I use.
2:25:55I use Apple TV, but we have a PlayStation that has Netflix,
2:25:58we have a, our TiVo can play Netflix.
2:26:02Everything has Netflix.
2:26:04So which one do you use for Netflix?
2:26:05Well, if Apple TV makes Netflix sound better,
2:26:08then it's more likely to be your first device.
2:26:11So that's my big prediction.
2:26:13- HDMI one. - I just made this up.
2:26:15That's my, I just came up with that right here
2:26:18talking to you, Jim, you inspired me.
2:26:19But that's my prediction, is a HomePod Apple TV connection.
2:26:23- That would be cool. - And it only works
2:26:24with the new Apple TV, not the old one.
2:26:26- Yeah, that would be cool, I'd love that.
2:26:28- That would be a reason that, I don't have a 4K TV,
2:26:32but that would be a reason why I would buy the new Apple TV
2:26:34even though I don't have 4K TV.
2:26:36I would buy it for the HomePod integration.
2:26:38All right, that about wraps it up for me.
2:26:41This is a good thing, I'll see you in a couple days.
2:26:44- Yeah. - It's always nice to,
2:26:45I always like that.
2:26:46All right, I'll talk to you then.
2:26:48Maybe we'll do a Periscope together like we did last year.
2:26:51- Yeah, really, that'd be fun.
2:26:52- Yeah, all right, I will see you next week.
2:26:54Anything else?
2:26:55- No, that's it.
2:26:56- People can read your fine work at The Loop.
2:27:00It's loopinsight.com, the fine website.
2:27:04And then on Twitter, you're J Dalrymple, right?
2:27:07- That's me.
2:27:08[ Silence ]