The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► friend of the show Paul Kofasas texted me earlier today with an interesting

00:00:05 ◼   ► question and he said if you heard somebody say that an outfielder went

00:00:10 ◼   ► quote full canseco on a ball what does that mean to you I'm not sure I know I I

00:00:20 ◼   ► like the the thought experiment though I got it because I can never forget this

00:00:27 ◼   ► play. It was a play when when Jose Canseco was on the Texas Rangers. He was

00:00:33 ◼   ► playing right field and there was like a what should have been a routine fly ball

00:00:38 ◼   ► out of the warning track. He lost it and it hit him on the head and bounced over

00:00:43 ◼   ► for a home run. It's it I will that seems impossible. I will I will put put the I

00:00:52 ◼   ► I will put the link in the show notes.

00:00:54 ◼   ► I swear to God.

00:00:56 ◼   ► I will send it to you now.

00:00:57 ◼   ► But it does sound impossible, but it did happen.

00:01:02 ◼   ► And I think you could probably,

00:01:05 ◼   ► if you had the right math degree,

00:01:06 ◼   ► you could probably prove mathematically

00:01:08 ◼   ► that it could only have happened to Jose Canseco.

00:01:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:13 ◼   ► - But that seems right.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, that's the second thing on YouTube,

00:01:18 ◼   ► the second search criteria for Jose Canseco.

00:01:22 ◼   ► The first is just Jose Canseco and the second is Jose Canseco ball hits head.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Wait, what the heck is that?

00:01:33 ◼   ► I got the audio from your video so.

00:01:38 ◼   ► I don't want to.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Yeah, did what?

00:01:40 ◼   ► No, this is great.

00:01:41 ◼   ► I'm listening.

00:01:42 ◼   ► That was the ad.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Here he goes.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Here he goes.

00:01:48 ◼   ► He's going back.

00:01:49 ◼   ► He's going back thong.

00:01:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:52 ◼   ► - You'd think you'd have to try to do that.

00:01:58 ◼   ► - No, or that you'd have to try to do it on purpose.

00:02:01 ◼   ► - Right, I mean, I'm not even sure

00:02:02 ◼   ► if you could do it on purpose.

00:02:03 ◼   ► - Right, so what happened was yesterday,

00:02:07 ◼   ► yeah, I guess it was yesterday,

00:02:09 ◼   ► Toronto Blue Jays left fielder Ben Revere

00:02:12 ◼   ► was trying to catch a fly ball

00:02:14 ◼   ► hit by the Orioles' Matt Wieters,

00:02:16 ◼   ► and it was gonna hit the wall about a foot short

00:02:20 ◼   ► and he jumped up to catch it and it hit his glove

00:02:25 ◼   ► and went over for a home run.

00:02:27 ◼   ► So it would not have been a home run.

00:02:29 ◼   ► It would have been about a foot short

00:02:31 ◼   ► and instead was 'cause he tried to catch it

00:02:33 ◼   ► and hit his glove.

00:02:34 ◼   ► To me, that's not a full canseco.

00:02:36 ◼   ► That to me is like a half canseco.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Like it's gotta hit your head.

00:02:39 ◼   ► - No, right, it's gotta hit your head.

00:02:40 ◼   ► - Gotta hit your head.

00:02:41 ◼   ► - Or some other butt.

00:02:42 ◼   ► I mean, you know, I'm not sure if there's anything else

00:02:44 ◼   ► comical than the head that would actually work. I think you're debasing the beauty of that play

00:02:50 ◼   ► by calling it a kantseka. A full... yeah, yeah. That's a half at best.

00:02:59 ◼   ► That's a half a kantseka. That should be the official scoring, actually.

00:03:04 ◼   ► The other link that came up when I went to Google it, when you type in Jose kantseka,

00:03:10 ◼   ► And that is a fun. It's a very fun game. What auto completes the other one that came out was Jose Canseco

00:03:16 ◼   ► Knocked out and when that when that auto completed I thought I was like, holy cow

00:03:22 ◼   ► So I misremembered the play I was like, I don't remember him getting knocked out on that play

00:03:26 ◼   ► I thought that it just went over and you know, he was okay turns out it's a different video

00:03:30 ◼   ► He was in a celebrity boxing match

00:03:33 ◼   ► And got knocked out in the first round

00:03:38 ◼   ► naturally yeah, actually he was

00:03:40 ◼   ► Who is he fighting by sicahima former Philadelphia Eagles

00:03:47 ◼   ► I

00:03:49 ◼   ► Think he was like a safety and like a kick returner and is now in fact a beloved local

00:03:55 ◼   ► sportscaster here and here in Philly by sicahima

00:03:59 ◼   ► Believe he's Hawaiian

00:04:03 ◼   ► Yeah, beloved for having having knocked out Jose Canseco.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:04:09 ◼   ► I guess he, I guess Canseco used to play at

00:04:16 ◼   ► for the local, for our local team here for the Rainiers.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Actually, because he was, he was in the A's, right?

00:04:23 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, because it used to be the Rainiers used to be an A's farm team before they became a Mariners farm team.

00:04:30 ◼   ► and so I remember going to a game one night and

00:04:33 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I get wigged like the gift the thing you know

00:04:37 ◼   ► If you get first 100 people or whatever was a hook it Jose can say go bubble head doll

00:04:41 ◼   ► That's a good name for a local team named after your yeah, cool mountaintop mount Rainier. Yeah, unless they rename the mountain

00:04:50 ◼   ► Yeah, well that happens nowadays, right? That's right. Yeah, which I think they should but yeah, that's okay

00:04:58 ◼   ► What a funny story that is I I'm guessing those people have heard this but it's

00:05:01 ◼   ► It's there was that there's a mountain in Alaska and that everybody in Alaska calls it Denali and it's the like the indigenous

00:05:10 ◼   ► Name that you know, they've been calling it that since you know, I don't know hundreds of years or whatever and then

00:05:17 ◼   ► At some point hundred years ago

00:05:20 ◼   ► Some point a white man shows up a white man shows up and they named it Mount McKinley after president McKinley

00:05:27 ◼   ► who quite frankly was not a very good president. And in fact, this is the part I did not know,

00:05:32 ◼   ► had never even stepped foot in Alaska. And so president—

00:05:37 ◼   ► Well, it was a long way to go back then.

00:05:39 ◼   ► President Barack Obama renamed it to Denali.

00:05:46 ◼   ► To what it was originally named.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Right. And it's such a weird story because so much in US politics is just knee jerk,

00:05:54 ◼   ► left-right, Republican, Democrat, you know, anything, you know, Obama, you know, orders a hamburger

00:06:00 ◼   ► and Republicans complain that he didn't get a cheeseburger. And instead though, this is very

00:06:08 ◼   ► strange, everybody in Alaska, whether they're Republican or Democrat, is very happy about this

00:06:13 ◼   ► because it's apparently been like a sticking point for a long time because, you know, they don't like

00:06:17 ◼   ► it. And people in Ohio, which is the home state of President McKinley, are very, very upset.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Too bad.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Name one of your little mountains in Ohio, Mount McKinley, right?

00:06:30 ◼   ► Now the name's freedom.

00:06:31 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:33 ◼   ► McKinley Hill.

00:06:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:35 ◼   ► So, the Rainier is actually, I believe, Tahoma in whatever the...

00:06:45 ◼   ► I'm not sure which native language it is or if it's all of them, if they all called it

00:06:49 ◼   ► the same thing.

00:06:51 ◼   ► So basically the same name as Tacoma Rylo.

00:06:55 ◼   ► I did not know that.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:57 ◼   ► There you go.

00:06:58 ◼   ► So they should change that.

00:06:59 ◼   ► And then the team could be the Tacoma Tahomas.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Oh my god, that would be great.

00:07:06 ◼   ► That would be a good way to get on SportsCenter on a regular basis.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:10 ◼   ► They're not getting the way they're playing right now.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Actually, I don't know how well the Rainiers are doing,

00:07:15 ◼   ► but their parent team is not doing that well.

00:07:18 ◼   ► I tried to explain to Jonas the other day

00:07:20 ◼   ► about, you remember Dick Trickle?

00:07:22 ◼   ► - I forgot the name.

00:07:25 ◼   ► - He was a NASCAR driver.

00:07:26 ◼   ► He was like a mediocre NASCAR driver.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Did not have a great win record or anything like that.

00:07:34 ◼   ► But in the late 90s when Keith Olbermann

00:07:38 ◼   ► and Dan Patrick were doing Sports Center,

00:07:42 ◼   ► I guess it was like the middle 90s,

00:07:43 ◼   ► and every night at 11 o'clock,

00:07:45 ◼   ► those two guys who went on,

00:07:46 ◼   ► they're two of the top sportscasters in the country now.

00:07:50 ◼   ► whenever they reported NASCAR results,

00:07:52 ◼   ► they would say, "Who came in first?

00:07:53 ◼   ► "Who came in second?

00:07:54 ◼   ► "And where did Dick Trickle finish?"

00:07:56 ◼   ► So it'd be like, so-and-so came in first,

00:08:00 ◼   ► so-and-so was second, and Dick Trickle finished 28th.

00:08:04 ◼   ► And it was every single week, it was so great.

00:08:08 ◼   ► And they never, of course, they never said why.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And I really had to, Jonas did not believe me.

00:08:15 ◼   ► We really had to Google the guy

00:08:17 ◼   ► and look up his Wikipedia.

00:08:18 ◼   ► And you can even find, if you Google him,

00:08:22 ◼   ► references to the fact that he was

00:08:24 ◼   ► always mentioned on SportsCenter.

00:08:26 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:08:26 ◼   ► - So that, you need a catchy name like that.

00:08:29 ◼   ► If you're not gonna win,

00:08:31 ◼   ► if you're only a minor league franchise,

00:08:33 ◼   ► you need a good name like that.

00:08:34 ◼   ► To come--

00:08:35 ◼   ► - And that would have been a good baseball name too.

00:08:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, Dick Trickle, oh yeah,

00:08:39 ◼   ► he should have put in a baseball player.

00:08:40 ◼   ► - Right, would have been, maybe that was it,

00:08:42 ◼   ► maybe that was he missed his calling.

00:08:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, would have been like a relief pitcher,

00:08:46 ◼   ► like Raleigh Fingers, right?

00:08:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:50 ◼   ► Late innings.

00:08:51 ◼   ► - Late innings, Dick Trickle.

00:08:53 ◼   ► - In comes Dick Trickle.

00:08:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:56 ◼   ► Dick Trickle warming up in the bullpen.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - Thank God we have nothing real to talk about.

00:09:01 ◼   ► - No, no.

00:09:01 ◼   ► Where do you wanna start?

00:09:05 ◼   ► - Let's just get the Google logo thing out of the way.

00:09:10 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:09:10 ◼   ► - This is why I brought in noted graphic designer, John Holds.

00:09:14 ◼   ► - I was kind of wondering why I was being brought on.

00:09:18 ◼   ► But please continue.

00:09:20 ◼   ► Probably 'cause you wanted somebody who knew less than you,

00:09:22 ◼   ► and I knew much less than you.

00:09:26 ◼   ► - Here's the, so Google changed their logo last week,

00:09:33 ◼   ► and I, rather than write, I should, I'm going to write.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Sometime, maybe it'll be when I get on the airplane,

00:09:39 ◼   ► but at some point I've gotta write a longer piece,

00:09:41 ◼   ► and I have a whole bunch of links saved up

00:09:43 ◼   ► 'cause other people are writing about it.

00:09:45 ◼   ► But my take on it--

00:09:48 ◼   ► Read your take.

00:09:50 ◼   ► I went short and sweet.

00:09:52 ◼   ► And I said, they're all--

00:09:55 ◼   ► wait, I better--

00:09:56 ◼   ► I was going to do it from memory.

00:09:57 ◼   ► It's pretty short, but I better--

00:09:59 ◼   ► let's see.

00:10:00 ◼   ► I'll just search my home page for garbage.

00:10:02 ◼   ► There it is.

00:10:03 ◼   ► Their old logo was goofy.

00:10:05 ◼   ► This new one is simply garbage, just right

00:10:08 ◼   ► for a company with no taste.

00:10:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:10:11 ◼   ► That's harsh.

00:10:12 ◼   ► But I meant--

00:10:13 ◼   ► I truly mean every word of that.

00:10:14 ◼   ► I really do.

00:10:15 ◼   ► I think it is a garbage logo.

00:10:17 ◼   ► I really do.

00:10:18 ◼   ► I think it is terrible.

00:10:19 ◼   ► And when there's two,

00:10:21 ◼   ► there's two new things, right?

00:10:22 ◼   ► There's a new.

00:10:23 ◼   ► The name is written differently.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Yes, and then they also have a logo

00:10:27 ◼   ► which they didn't have before.

00:10:28 ◼   ► Am I right about that?

00:10:29 ◼   ► What would the what is the logo supposed to be

00:10:32 ◼   ► like the circle things?

00:10:34 ◼   ► Yeah, so there's like a circle.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean so actually

00:10:37 ◼   ► and the if you look in the what is it?

00:10:40 ◼   ► What's that little thing up in the URL line?

00:10:44 ◼   ► Favicon yeah the favicon right?

00:10:46 ◼   ► Yeah, so well, I'm not sure what was up there before it was.

00:10:51 ◼   ► I thought it was a G.

00:10:51 ◼   ► It was a lowercase G.

00:10:53 ◼   ► I I see a G now I see a capital G.

00:10:56 ◼   ► Yeah, but you see something great.

00:10:58 ◼   ► It's got the colors.

00:10:59 ◼   ► It's got the colors of the Chrome icon.

00:11:02 ◼   ► Yeah, basically.

00:11:03 ◼   ► Although actually no, it's got bullet

00:11:05 ◼   ► 'cause the Chrome icon has blue in the middle.

00:11:07 ◼   ► This one has it on the outside, so I thought it was just the Chrome icon

00:11:10 ◼   ► in the shape of a G, but it's not right.

00:11:13 ◼   ► The only thing I would clarify about my I will write more but if I could if I could take my little short take again, I would the only thing I would add is that when I say their old logo was goofy, I that I realized that's an incomplete thought because it was goofy.

00:11:26 ◼   ► But over the years, they had simplified it to a point where it was right. It was goofy, but goofy in the way that Google is goofy. And I mean, goofy like that they're sort of a quirky.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Odd, you know, that's part of their brand right like do you this is my favorite moment in Google history

00:11:43 ◼   ► And I mean this in total sincerity whatever year it was when Gmail was announced. They announced it on April 1st and

00:11:50 ◼   ► And at the time like if you went to like AOL

00:11:56 ◼   ► Comm and signed up for a free email or Yahoo everybody

00:12:00 ◼   ► I guess Yahoo and Hotmail were like the two that were most popular

00:12:03 ◼   ► you've got the new you know, you free email account and

00:12:06 ◼   ► Like you got like 10 megabytes of storage or 15 megabytes of storage or something like that

00:12:12 ◼   ► And then on April 1st of like whatever year it was

00:12:15 ◼   ► 2006 2007 whatever

00:12:17 ◼   ► Google announced that they have a new free email service called Gmail and you get like a gigabyte of storage. It was like

00:12:24 ◼   ► 50 times the storage of

00:12:26 ◼   ► These other services and it was April 1st, which is internet jackass day

00:12:31 ◼   ► And so I remember thinking like I I think and I think this might be true

00:12:36 ◼   ► I think it's true that I've never once been taken in by an internet jackass day hoax

00:12:42 ◼   ► I think and if not if I have been taken in it hasn't been bad

00:12:48 ◼   ► Like I've never once you know and I do know it's a point of pride for me that I've never once been full

00:12:53 ◼   ► I remember like thinking like this is this is dastardly

00:12:57 ◼   ► "I can't tell whether this is real or a joke,

00:13:00 ◼   ► "and I didn't know what to do,

00:13:01 ◼   ► "I didn't know whether I should link to it,

00:13:03 ◼   ► "I didn't know whether I should link to it and just say,

00:13:05 ◼   ► "I don't know if this is a joke or not,

00:13:08 ◼   ► "because it just seemed impossible.

00:13:09 ◼   ► "How could they give everybody a gigabyte of storage?"

00:13:12 ◼   ► And it turned out it was completely true.

00:13:14 ◼   ► But I love that story, and I think that they did it.

00:13:17 ◼   ► I've never heard whether it's true or not,

00:13:19 ◼   ► but I think that's why they announced it on April 1st,

00:13:21 ◼   ► 'cause I think they knew that it would have that reaction.

00:13:24 ◼   ► That part of the reaction to the announcement of Gmail

00:13:27 ◼   ► was the, are they kidding?

00:13:28 ◼   ► Is this for real?

00:13:30 ◼   ► - Well, and that's the best thing to do on April 1st, right?

00:13:34 ◼   ► Because everybody's so sick of April 1st

00:13:37 ◼   ► being full of these dumb, Microsoft buys so-and-so.

00:13:42 ◼   ► And the real trick is to do the opposite, right?

00:13:49 ◼   ► I mean, the better gag is to do the exact opposite,

00:13:51 ◼   ► announce something that's completely true

00:13:53 ◼   ► that seems like it's probably not.

00:13:55 ◼   ► And to me, it just epitomizes what is great and fun

00:13:59 ◼   ► about Google, that they can do,

00:14:00 ◼   ► they have amazing technology, they have,

00:14:04 ◼   ► they think big, right?

00:14:06 ◼   ► Instead of thinking like, let's double Yahoo's storage,

00:14:10 ◼   ► they were like, let's give 100 times.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah, 100 times.

00:14:13 ◼   ► They think big, they're not afraid,

00:14:18 ◼   ► they have that sort of ambition in the imagination,

00:14:21 ◼   ► and they have this weird sense of humor

00:14:23 ◼   ► where I wouldn't have put it past them

00:14:25 ◼   ► to do it as a joke.

00:14:27 ◼   ► And they do, they are a company that does

00:14:29 ◼   ► do jokes on April 1st.

00:14:31 ◼   ► Like Apple, for example, never does April 1st jokes.

00:14:34 ◼   ► And shouldn't, it would be terrible.

00:14:39 ◼   ► But it, you know, I hate all--

00:14:41 ◼   ► - They're not that good at jokes.

00:14:43 ◼   ► They should probably not try that.

00:14:45 ◼   ► - Right, I don't think Google's jokes are that good either,

00:14:47 ◼   ► but they do them.

00:14:49 ◼   ► But it's right for Google's brand that they do them.

00:14:54 ◼   ► And the fact that I don't really care for those jokes is just one of those reasons why

00:14:56 ◼   ► I just am more of an Apple person than a Google person.

00:14:59 ◼   ► But anyway, all of that is to say is that where their logo was before, like up until

00:15:05 ◼   ► last week, was to me, it was goofy, but goofy in the right way.

00:15:11 ◼   ► And it looked, you know, it had like a certain stateliness to it.

00:15:14 ◼   ► And the fact that it was this sort of weird old timey serif font that nobody really uses

00:15:20 ◼   ► anymore. It was just like a weird quirk, but it was instantly recognizable. And, you know,

00:15:29 ◼   ► all in a good way. And I think that it was, it just had the right tone. It was their old

00:15:35 ◼   ► logo. So calling it goofy and leaving it at that makes it sound like I was putting their

00:15:38 ◼   ► old logo down too. What I meant is that their old logo was goofy appropriately. And, you

00:15:45 ◼   ► And so you can criticize it in and of itself as a logo.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And a lot of the people who have written pieces

00:15:51 ◼   ► supporting the new logo, they're correct in all the ways

00:15:54 ◼   ► that their old logo was kind of weird.

00:15:56 ◼   ► In and of itself wasn't good.

00:15:59 ◼   ► But I think it was really good for Google.

00:16:02 ◼   ► And this new one, to me, it's so childish looking.

00:16:07 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

00:16:09 ◼   ► It's absolutely ridiculous.

00:16:12 ◼   ► You think it's, how do you think it's childish?

00:16:16 ◼   ► 'Cause it looks like those letters

00:16:18 ◼   ► that you put on refrigerators.

00:16:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, it just, to me, the tone of these shapes of letters,

00:16:23 ◼   ► the complete geometric roundness of these letters,

00:16:28 ◼   ► and the best letter to look at, to me, is the lowercase g,

00:16:33 ◼   ► which is really, really, to me,

00:16:34 ◼   ► like a kindergarten-looking lowercase g,

00:16:37 ◼   ► like the type of g you would put up in front of a kid

00:16:40 ◼   ► learning to write for the first time.

00:16:42 ◼   ► I mean, the O's are just perfect circles,

00:16:45 ◼   ► so it's hard to complain about them.

00:16:46 ◼   ► But just the G is really where it stands out

00:16:50 ◼   ► as very, very childish looking.

00:16:53 ◼   ► And I don't think that's good at all.

00:16:55 ◼   ► I mean, other people have pointed out

00:16:57 ◼   ► that it's extremely similar to the four-colored G logo

00:17:02 ◼   ► that they have now, uppercase G.

00:17:04 ◼   ► It's very, very similar to a logo

00:17:06 ◼   ► that Jim Bury had used for a decade.

00:17:09 ◼   ► I saw that.

00:17:10 ◼   ► - And I don't think it's a problem

00:17:12 ◼   ► in that they rip them off.

00:17:13 ◼   ► It's not, you know, there's only so many ways

00:17:15 ◼   ► to do primary colors, which already was part

00:17:18 ◼   ► of Google's brand.

00:17:19 ◼   ► You know, the blue, red, yellow, green.

00:17:22 ◼   ► If you're gonna stick to these primary,

00:17:25 ◼   ► like, you know, right out of the eight color Crayola box,

00:17:29 ◼   ► look, and do a uppercase G,

00:17:33 ◼   ► there's only so many ways to do it.

00:17:34 ◼   ► So I wouldn't call it a ripoff,

00:17:36 ◼   ► but the fact that it is so similar in tone

00:17:38 ◼   ► to a logo for a romper room for three-year-olds,

00:17:43 ◼   ► it really, really says to me how childish it is as a brand.

00:17:48 ◼   ► I really liked, for example, with their old logo,

00:17:53 ◼   ► I liked the way that when they made icons,

00:17:55 ◼   ► like for example, like when they put the logo

00:17:59 ◼   ► on the Google Maps icon or their old favicon,

00:18:03 ◼   ► that instead of using the first G, the uppercase G,

00:18:06 ◼   ► they used the middle G, the lowercase one,

00:18:09 ◼   ► and you knew that that was Google's G.

00:18:12 ◼   ► It's like Google owned that lowercase G.

00:18:15 ◼   ► And I thought that was a really cool way,

00:18:17 ◼   ► and I thought it was very, very apt for their brand

00:18:21 ◼   ► and the sort of tone of their company.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Whereas now, they're stuck with this uppercase G,

00:18:25 ◼   ► and it's very generic looking.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Generically childish.

00:18:29 ◼   ► - Part of the other part of your argument,

00:18:35 ◼   ► The last part of your argument though,

00:18:36 ◼   ► a company with no taste.

00:18:39 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:18:40 ◼   ► - I think that's probably what most people got hung up on.

00:18:44 ◼   ► - Well, I don't-- - On your--

00:18:48 ◼   ► - They don't have taste though.

00:18:50 ◼   ► I really, I firmly believe it.

00:18:51 ◼   ► And there are, here's the, I guess the part

00:18:54 ◼   ► that gets lost in there is there are pockets within Google

00:18:57 ◼   ► where there are good designers working

00:19:00 ◼   ► and obviously have taste because there are some products

00:19:03 ◼   ► that they put out that are nicely designed.

00:19:06 ◼   ► But institutionally, they have no taste at all

00:19:10 ◼   ► because some of their products are just horrendous.

00:19:15 ◼   ► For example, I think Gmail just looks like garbage,

00:19:19 ◼   ► and it always has, and I could never,

00:19:21 ◼   ► I know probably a majority of the people listening

00:19:24 ◼   ► to this show probably use Gmail.

00:19:26 ◼   ► And if not a majority, certainly a huge chunk use it,

00:19:31 ◼   ► and they use it right out of the web browser,

00:19:34 ◼   ► that's how they do their email.

00:19:36 ◼   ► I don't think anybody does that

00:19:38 ◼   ► because they like the way it looks,

00:19:40 ◼   ► they just like the way that it works.

00:19:43 ◼   ► It looks terrible, it's just a jumbled ugly mess.

00:19:47 ◼   ► And it's like one of their flagship products.

00:19:50 ◼   ► I would say it's second only to web search.

00:19:54 ◼   ► - I guess I don't find their taste any worse

00:19:58 ◼   ► than anybody else's particularly,

00:20:00 ◼   ► than with the possible exception of apple i mean obviously we we prefer apple so we're going to

00:20:05 ◼   ► come down on the side that apple has better taste but i mean i think that i i mean i would say that

00:20:10 ◼   ► that's probably not uh too much of an argument i mean apple is kind of the reverse right they they

00:20:16 ◼   ► occasionally they do have things that show poor taste um often in their comments as opposed to

00:20:23 ◼   ► their design, but by and large, it's the opposite case for them. But the thing about Google,

00:20:31 ◼   ► I just don't think that their taste is really any worse than Microsoft's or anybody else's.

00:20:35 ◼   ► Dave Asprey I don't think Microsoft has good taste either.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Tim Cynova Yeah.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Dave Asprey Although they have been, I think they've evolved

00:20:40 ◼   ► better taste than Google. I think Microsoft has-

00:20:44 ◼   ► Tim Cynova You think?

00:20:44 ◼   ► Dave Asprey Yeah, I think in recent years-

00:20:46 ◼   ► Tim Cynova I think maybe they're showing it

00:20:47 ◼   ► in the last few years.

00:20:49 ◼   ► - I would even say just look at their logo redesigns.

00:20:53 ◼   ► I think that Microsoft redesigned their logo

00:20:55 ◼   ► within the last few years too,

00:20:56 ◼   ► and I think for the better.

00:20:58 ◼   ► I think that they've gotten to a mark now

00:21:01 ◼   ► that they can stick with forever.

00:21:04 ◼   ► And I don't think it's great.

00:21:08 ◼   ► There's nothing really that I would rave

00:21:09 ◼   ► about Microsoft's current logo,

00:21:12 ◼   ► but it was better than what they had before,

00:21:15 ◼   ► and it seems to fit their brand to me.

00:21:19 ◼   ► And so that to me is a sign of taste.

00:21:23 ◼   ► I mean one of the reactions I've gotten from people

00:21:24 ◼   ► on Twitter, and I almost can't believe

00:21:26 ◼   ► that they exist in a world, I know there's people

00:21:29 ◼   ► who don't care about logos, really,

00:21:31 ◼   ► and think that they don't matter or whatever,

00:21:32 ◼   ► but why would those people follow me on Twitter?

00:21:35 ◼   ► Like I've met people who have said,

00:21:36 ◼   ► dude, it's just a logo.

00:21:38 ◼   ► - To get angry, I think.

00:21:39 ◼   ► - Right, to me that's like saying,

00:21:41 ◼   ► who cares what font you pick?

00:21:43 ◼   ► It's like, I don't know.

00:21:45 ◼   ► Like in the apartment building that is my mind,

00:21:50 ◼   ► love of typography and love of care about logos

00:21:53 ◼   ► share a bedroom.

00:21:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:58 ◼   ► It's to me, it's the same part of my brain.

00:22:00 ◼   ► The same part of my brain lights up when I think about fonts

00:22:04 ◼   ► as when I think about logos and branding.

00:22:06 ◼   ► It's exactly the same part of my brain.

00:22:08 ◼   ► And in some cases, it's married together

00:22:12 ◼   ► because in this case, what I really don't like

00:22:14 ◼   ► Google's logo is the type of the, the, you know, the word mark that they're using.

00:22:19 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't like it either, but this always happens to me. It's like, I,

00:22:24 ◼   ► I end up, these things get announced and a whole bunch of people lose their shit over it.

00:22:29 ◼   ► And I look at it and I think often I, I will, I will end up one way or the other, like saying,

00:22:37 ◼   ► Oh, I like it. And then someone will write a very thoughtful post on why I shouldn't like it. And

00:22:41 ◼   ► and they'll think, oh yeah, OK, I can see that or the other way around.

00:22:44 ◼   ► So I don't feel like I'm

00:22:47 ◼   ► I feel lost in this in this world, but I did not.

00:22:50 ◼   ► I did not like it on first glance, on first glance.

00:22:53 ◼   ► And also, I mean, I kind of understood why they did it,

00:22:55 ◼   ► because they've reorganized.

00:22:58 ◼   ► But I also but at the same time, I still don't get.

00:23:01 ◼   ► I think the I think that companies tend to do that too much.

00:23:05 ◼   ► And often it's a bad impulse to rush out and redesign your

00:23:10 ◼   ► your logo to reflect some sort of business reason that your customers really probably don't give a

00:23:18 ◼   ► crap about. Yeah, that's a very interesting point and now that you've said it, I have been thinking

00:23:24 ◼   ► that like in the back of my head, I think you're exactly right that it's inextricably tied to this

00:23:29 ◼   ► alphabet parent company and honestly and I know I do care deeply about logos and I really do,

00:23:38 ◼   ► I do think that they matter,

00:23:42 ◼   ► or at least they can matter tremendously.

00:23:44 ◼   ► Like I think, for example, the Apple logo is,

00:23:48 ◼   ► you can't put a value on it.

00:23:52 ◼   ► It is incredibly valuable to the company,

00:23:55 ◼   ► and it's so meaningful to me that they can

00:23:58 ◼   ► have these retail stores that don't even say

00:24:00 ◼   ► the name of the store.

00:24:01 ◼   ► They've never put the name of the store anywhere.

00:24:04 ◼   ► They just put this mark out in front,

00:24:06 ◼   ► and everybody knows what it is.

00:24:08 ◼   ► And they can make laptops that have this mark when they're opened up and you can just see

00:24:15 ◼   ► that, you know, when you go into a coffee shop that everybody is using one of their

00:24:20 ◼   ► laptops and it's incredibly valuable.

00:24:25 ◼   ► Technically not their first logo.

00:24:27 ◼   ► No, well, no, not officially.

00:24:29 ◼   ► There's the old...

00:24:31 ◼   ► Newton's sitting under a tree, right?

00:24:35 ◼   ► Which was a terrible logo.

00:24:36 ◼   ► It was a very nice drawing.

00:24:38 ◼   ► - Doesn't really catch the eye though.

00:24:42 ◼   ► - I'll put it in the show notes.

00:24:44 ◼   ► I bet most people listening have seen it,

00:24:45 ◼   ► but if you haven't, you'll be shocked

00:24:48 ◼   ► at the first Apple Computer Company logo.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Very well drawn, it was very nice,

00:24:54 ◼   ► but it is a terrible logo.

00:24:56 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's interesting.

00:25:00 ◼   ► I do think that their changing logo

00:25:02 ◼   ► is inextricably tied to this sort of corporate reshuffling.

00:25:05 ◼   ► And honestly, and not to read too much into it.

00:25:07 ◼   ► So all this said that I care about logo and that they matter,

00:25:10 ◼   ► I actually do think that it is a sign.

00:25:13 ◼   ► I can't articulate it logically, it's a feeling,

00:25:17 ◼   ► but I just feel it, that it's a very bad sign for Google.

00:25:21 ◼   ► Like to me, it's a sign that they've lost their way.

00:25:23 ◼   ► And that, you know, I don't have money in Google,

00:25:28 ◼   ► I don't have any money in any individual companies,

00:25:30 ◼   ► but if I did, I would think very, very seriously

00:25:33 ◼   ► about selling my Google stock that I don't know.

00:25:36 ◼   ► I think they might be in for some bad times ahead.

00:25:39 ◼   ► And it's not just the logo, it's everything.

00:25:41 ◼   ► It's like the fact that Larry and Sergey,

00:25:46 ◼   ► I think that's how you're supposed to pronounce it.

00:25:48 ◼   ► I've been called on pronouncing it a different way,

00:25:50 ◼   ► but I got some emails telling me.

00:25:52 ◼   ► - Oh, that's a hard G?

00:25:53 ◼   ► - Sergey, Sergey.

00:25:55 ◼   ► - Okay, I didn't know that either.

00:26:00 ◼   ► They've seemingly, I've been thinking about this alphabet

00:26:04 ◼   ► reshuffling and to me as I think about it,

00:26:05 ◼   ► I think what it really means is that those two guys

00:26:08 ◼   ► who could do whatever they want,

00:26:09 ◼   ► 'cause A, they're filthy rich,

00:26:11 ◼   ► B, the ingenious way that they've structured

00:26:14 ◼   ► the stock for the company,

00:26:15 ◼   ► they can do whatever they want with the company.

00:26:17 ◼   ► They don't have to answer to anybody, which is great.

00:26:19 ◼   ► I've always thought Steve Jobs must have looked

00:26:23 ◼   ► at the way they set that up and thought,

00:26:25 ◼   ► goddamn, I wish I'd done something like that.

00:26:27 ◼   ► that they've lost interest,

00:26:32 ◼   ► they've lost interest in what Google as we know it is.

00:26:36 ◼   ► And that they just, they wanna do other things.

00:26:40 ◼   ► To me, that for Google,

00:26:42 ◼   ► whether the prospects for Alphabet are bad, I don't know.

00:26:45 ◼   ► Maybe they've got some great new stuff up their sleeve.

00:26:47 ◼   ► But for Google as we know it,

00:26:48 ◼   ► I feel like they're going into a decline.

00:26:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean in a way,

00:26:52 ◼   ► 'cause it seems like they're taking the stuff

00:26:54 ◼   ► that they think is the long-term growth stuff

00:26:57 ◼   ► out of Google and other places.

00:26:59 ◼   ► - Right, and this logo change makes me feel

00:27:02 ◼   ► that the people left at Google,

00:27:05 ◼   ► what is now just Google,

00:27:07 ◼   ► really don't, they don't get what made Google great.

00:27:13 ◼   ► They don't get it, I think,

00:27:15 ◼   ► 'cause to me this brand doesn't fit

00:27:17 ◼   ► what the best of Google feels like.

00:27:20 ◼   ► I mean it's-- - I was thinking,

00:27:23 ◼   ► well I was thinking that it was

00:27:26 ◼   ► more dictated by Alphabet.

00:27:28 ◼   ► - Maybe?

00:27:30 ◼   ► - Rather than done with internally to Google.

00:27:31 ◼   ► But I mean, maybe they said to go out and design a new logo.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Or maybe they said, we have to make sure

00:27:40 ◼   ► that the Alphabet brand is all consistent

00:27:44 ◼   ► and we're going in a different direction.

00:27:46 ◼   ► - Maybe, I don't know.

00:27:47 ◼   ► But I think they've lost something that was pretty good

00:27:52 ◼   ► and replaced it with something that's terrible.

00:27:55 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, that's my thoughts on their logo.

00:27:58 ◼   ► I mean, I wouldn't.

00:28:04 ◼   ► I would not say that they have no taste, but

00:28:06 ◼   ► but I don't think their taste is as good as I'm.

00:28:09 ◼   ► They there are people in the

00:28:11 ◼   ► in teams within the company with great taste.

00:28:13 ◼   ► Institutionally, the company has no taste.

00:28:16 ◼   ► That's my argument.

00:28:17 ◼   ► And I think that it's a very strong argument.

00:28:19 ◼   ► Anyway, let's take a break and I'll tell you about

00:28:23 ◼   ► very good friend of the show Harry's you guys know Harry's they sell high quality razors

00:28:30 ◼   ► blades and other you know shaving lotions and creams and shaving stuff and they sell it for

00:28:38 ◼   ► a fraction of the price of the big brands they were started by two guys who just wanted to make

00:28:43 ◼   ► a better product and figured there had to be a way to sell shaving stuff especially blades

00:28:50 ◼   ► cheaper than what the big blade companies sell stuff for.

00:28:54 ◼   ► So they started ordering blades from their own factory

00:28:58 ◼   ► in Germany.

00:28:59 ◼   ► They liked the blade so much they just bought the factory.

00:29:01 ◼   ► Must be nice.

00:29:02 ◼   ► So they just own their own blade factory.

00:29:04 ◼   ► They make their own blades in Germany,

00:29:07 ◼   ► place that's been making blades for a long time.

00:29:10 ◼   ► And then they ship them right to you.

00:29:13 ◼   ► So there is no middleman.

00:29:14 ◼   ► That's how they have the prices so much lower.

00:29:16 ◼   ► So you buy like Gillette.

00:29:18 ◼   ► It's going to warehouses and middlemen and distributors,

00:29:23 ◼   ► and then it ends up in a retail store.

00:29:24 ◼   ► And every step of the way, it all gets marked up.

00:29:27 ◼   ► Their starter set, it's an amazing deal.

00:29:30 ◼   ► 15 bucks, you get a razor, that's the handle.

00:29:33 ◼   ► You get moisturizing shave cream or gel,

00:29:35 ◼   ► your preference, whether you want a cream or a gel,

00:29:37 ◼   ► and three razor blades, 15 bucks.

00:29:40 ◼   ► And when you need more blades,

00:29:42 ◼   ► depending on how many you buy them at,

00:29:43 ◼   ► they're always two bucks or each less.

00:29:45 ◼   ► So like an eight pack, which is like a small one,

00:29:48 ◼   ► It's just 15 bucks, but you can get a 16-pack, 25 bucks.

00:29:52 ◼   ► Way, way better.

00:29:55 ◼   ► I think on Amazon, the last time I checked, it says a 12-pack of fusions from Gillette,

00:30:01 ◼   ► which is very comparable.

00:30:02 ◼   ► I think that's actually the blade I used to use before I switched to Harry's.

00:30:06 ◼   ► They have a 12-pack for 41 bucks.

00:30:09 ◼   ► So that's Amazon, who you know is not getting under cut-out price.

00:30:12 ◼   ► So way more.

00:30:13 ◼   ► It's like three bucks a blade,

00:30:14 ◼   ► more than three bucks a blade for Gillette's,

00:30:18 ◼   ► less than two bucks a blade for Harry's.

00:30:22 ◼   ► So if you're just looking to save money,

00:30:24 ◼   ► Harry's is the way to go.

00:30:26 ◼   ► If you care about design, Harry's is also the way to go.

00:30:29 ◼   ► Really nice packaging.

00:30:31 ◼   ► I've always said this, their packaging is so nice,

00:30:33 ◼   ► it makes me not want to throw it away,

00:30:34 ◼   ► and then I realized that that's just the crazy hoarder.

00:30:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, right.

00:30:39 ◼   ► But I know exactly, I mean, I have Harry's stuff,

00:30:42 ◼   ► I didn't know exactly what you mean. It's really well done. As I stare to my left in my office here

00:30:47 ◼   ► and look at the stack of old Apple laptops. I've got like eight old PowerBooks. I've got iBooks.

00:30:56 ◼   ► They're all stacked up. That's what I feel like when I get Harry's. I almost curse them for the

00:31:00 ◼   ► quality of their packaging. So if you care about design, Harry's is the way to go. If you care

00:31:05 ◼   ► about just being cheap, Harry's is the way to go. If you care about quality, shave so you're not

00:31:12 ◼   ► like cutting yourself up and you know making a mess of your face, Harry's is the way to go. Their

00:31:16 ◼   ► blades are super sharp, really great. And if you care about just being lazy, it's the way to go

00:31:22 ◼   ► because you don't even have to leave your house. They just show up and you can eat. If you want to,

00:31:25 ◼   ► you can even like tell them how often you need to replace your blades and just subscribe and they'll

00:31:30 ◼   ► They'll just send them to you on a regular basis.

00:31:32 ◼   ► So you win, I mean, every way.

00:31:36 ◼   ► So go there to harrys.com, H-A-R-R-Y-S.com.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And if it's your first purchase, use this code, talk show.

00:31:44 ◼   ► They don't have the the, it's just talk show.

00:31:45 ◼   ► And you'll save five bucks off your first purchase.

00:31:48 ◼   ► So that $15 kit I was telling you about is only 10 bucks.

00:31:50 ◼   ► So it's practically free.

00:31:52 ◼   ► So go there and check them out at harrys.com.

00:31:54 ◼   ► And remember the code, talk show.

00:31:56 ◼   ► My notes here are confusing.

00:32:00 ◼   ► I don't know, it says, and then down below here,

00:32:02 ◼   ► it says promo code the talk show.

00:32:04 ◼   ► So I don't even know what the hell the code is.

00:32:06 ◼   ► Try 'em both, and one of 'em will give you.

00:32:09 ◼   ► - Right, if you don't get money off, try again.

00:32:12 ◼   ► - It's actually a fun game.

00:32:15 ◼   ► - And then try Gruber.

00:32:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:32:17 ◼   ► What else is going on?

00:32:21 ◼   ► So we got this Google logo thing out of the way.

00:32:22 ◼   ► I guess we'll talk, let's talk about the event,

00:32:24 ◼   ► 'cause maybe that's--

00:32:25 ◼   ► - Do you wanna do that, or do you wanna talk about,

00:32:27 ◼   ► Because on No Taste we could talk about the Samsung watch.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Oh, that's a good one.

00:32:32 ◼   ► Yeah, we could talk about that.

00:32:33 ◼   ► Yeah, which I actually think looks really nice.

00:32:37 ◼   ► But I wrote a piece about the difference between square watch faces and round watch faces.

00:32:44 ◼   ► And I kind of think that square watch faces are actually more the way of the future than

00:32:50 ◼   ► round watch faces.

00:32:51 ◼   ► Ah, there I got the article.

00:32:53 ◼   ► I did not even know you wrote this piece.

00:32:55 ◼   ► This is nice.

00:32:56 ◼   ► I'll put that in the show notes.

00:32:57 ◼   ► I'm going to link that up.

00:32:59 ◼   ► All right, so tell me why do you think that?

00:33:01 ◼   ► Well, and again, you had the guy who's not a designer on.

00:33:06 ◼   ► But from the things that I've read from people

00:33:08 ◼   ► who are actually designers, it's certainly easier

00:33:12 ◼   ► to code for a square face.

00:33:15 ◼   ► But also, a square face is better

00:33:18 ◼   ► at representing most information.

00:33:20 ◼   ► That's not to say that there aren't certain instances where

00:33:23 ◼   ► or a round depiction of something is not more valuable

00:33:28 ◼   ► than a square one, it's just saying that you can easily,

00:33:31 ◼   ► more easily get a circle into a square

00:33:34 ◼   ► than the other way around.

00:33:36 ◼   ► You could get a circle into a square

00:33:37 ◼   ► without losing any size, whereas you cannot get a square

00:33:41 ◼   ► into a circle without losing size.

00:33:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is exactly what I have thought.

00:33:46 ◼   ► Well, would I have been shocked if a year ago,

00:33:52 ◼   ► and it would have been exactly a year ago as we talk,

00:33:56 ◼   ► that when they unveiled the Apple Watch,

00:33:57 ◼   ► if it had been circular,

00:33:59 ◼   ► I guess I wouldn't have been shocked,

00:34:01 ◼   ► but I wasn't surprised at all that Apple's was rectangular

00:34:06 ◼   ► because of that exact thing,

00:34:09 ◼   ► that it's for generic display

00:34:13 ◼   ► that might end up displaying anything,

00:34:16 ◼   ► including, and I think especially today's Apple,

00:34:20 ◼   ► post App Store and iPhone Apple realizes

00:34:25 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch was, if it's successful,

00:34:31 ◼   ► would end up being used in ways

00:34:34 ◼   ► that they'd never imagined, right?

00:34:36 ◼   ► That's like the big lesson of the iPhone to me

00:34:41 ◼   ► is that there was this whole internal debate.

00:34:48 ◼   ► I think Ben Thompson and I were talking about

00:34:50 ◼   ► in the last episode, that it's just so funny

00:34:52 ◼   ► that there was a camp within the company

00:34:53 ◼   ► that was sort of like, we don't need an app store.

00:34:55 ◼   ► You know, we'll just make all the apps we need ourselves

00:34:58 ◼   ► and partner with companies, you know,

00:34:59 ◼   ► like Google for the YouTube app and the Google Maps app

00:35:03 ◼   ► that shipped on the first iPhone.

00:35:04 ◼   ► We'll just partner with people

00:35:06 ◼   ► and we'll make all the apps that we need for this thing.

00:35:08 ◼   ► So like, for example, I do think that Apple foresaw

00:35:12 ◼   ► that there would have, you know,

00:35:13 ◼   ► right away that there would be a second screen of apps.

00:35:16 ◼   ► You know, I think that they had the idea

00:35:18 ◼   ► that you'd page between, you know,

00:35:19 ◼   ► from the left to the right, you know, to get to more apps.

00:35:22 ◼   ► I think though that there was a side within the company

00:35:24 ◼   ► that thought, you know, that'll be--

00:35:26 ◼   ► - There'll all be our apps.

00:35:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, there'll be like 24 apps for the iPhone

00:35:30 ◼   ► and it'll be great.

00:35:31 ◼   ► And that Safari was the outlet for it.

00:35:35 ◼   ► You know, I actually think that, you know,

00:35:38 ◼   ► that when they announced that at the first WWDC

00:35:40 ◼   ► that we have a sweet solution for you guys,

00:35:42 ◼   ► I think that they meant it.

00:35:44 ◼   ► I think there were some people within the company

00:35:46 ◼   ► who wanted, definitely were pushing for the App Store angle,

00:35:49 ◼   ► who cringed at that, just like all the developers

00:35:53 ◼   ► in the audience watching the keynote did.

00:35:56 ◼   ► But I think that some of them thought,

00:35:58 ◼   ► that's good enough for like,

00:36:00 ◼   ► and I think they foresaw things like,

00:36:03 ◼   ► well, you do your online banking on your phone.

00:36:05 ◼   ► Well, they'll just write a website that works,

00:36:08 ◼   ► that fits right on the screen.

00:36:10 ◼   ► So I think now, lo these many years later

00:36:14 ◼   ► and all these literally millions of apps

00:36:16 ◼   ► and all the money they're making on the apps,

00:36:18 ◼   ► they realize, hey, the phone is being used

00:36:20 ◼   ► in ways we never imagined.

00:36:21 ◼   ► I think they knew going into it with the watch

00:36:23 ◼   ► that it would be used in ways they didn't imagine,

00:36:25 ◼   ► and I think a rectangle is a better generic shape

00:36:28 ◼   ► than a circle for that.

00:36:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the thing, one of the things that struck me,

00:36:33 ◼   ► even just like while I was writing this piece was that,

00:36:36 ◼   ► 'cause I went back and looked at all the old watches

00:36:38 ◼   ► that I had lying around, and I guess that came out

00:36:43 ◼   ► because I was using a circular watch face,

00:36:46 ◼   ► and I switched to modular, which I like and don't like,

00:36:50 ◼   ► but I like it because it's got a lot

00:36:51 ◼   ► of extra information on it.

00:36:54 ◼   ► And the problem that I had was like,

00:36:55 ◼   ► I wanted a watch face with a date on it.

00:36:58 ◼   ► And I also wanted a watch face

00:37:01 ◼   ► that I could get the most complications on.

00:37:03 ◼   ► And the way you do that in most of them

00:37:06 ◼   ► is by putting the date inside the watch face.

00:37:09 ◼   ► Well, most of those are too small for me to read

00:37:12 ◼   ► because I'm too old for it now.

00:37:15 ◼   ► And the other thing is that five minutes out of every hour,

00:37:19 ◼   ► you can't read the date anyway,

00:37:22 ◼   ► because the minute hand is covering it.

00:37:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've thought the same thing.

00:37:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that's sort of like,

00:37:29 ◼   ► it was interesting how I went back

00:37:32 ◼   ► and looked at those old watches and thought,

00:37:33 ◼   ► yeah, I mean, that's kind of a thing

00:37:34 ◼   ► that I've struggled with for years, really,

00:37:36 ◼   ► and never really thought much about.

00:37:39 ◼   ► But I mean, you can, with a watch with physical hands,

00:37:42 ◼   ► the minute hand is always the one that's higher,

00:37:44 ◼   ► So you can kind of tilt to see around it

00:37:47 ◼   ► in order to see what the date is.

00:37:51 ◼   ► But it's even worse on like a chronograph

00:37:54 ◼   ► because it's got all those extra things on there

00:37:57 ◼   ► that are on the face, but they get covered up

00:37:59 ◼   ► at odd parts of the hour and become difficult to use.

00:38:04 ◼   ► So all that stuff is just adding information

00:38:08 ◼   ► to a watch with a circular face

00:38:09 ◼   ► and trying to put it inside that circle

00:38:11 ◼   ► becomes really difficult.

00:38:12 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:38:13 ◼   ► And the modular face, while I don't like certain things

00:38:16 ◼   ► about it, it just displays all the information.

00:38:20 ◼   ► - And there is a psychological angle to it too.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Like the way that everybody, the famous,

00:38:29 ◼   ► the adage that if you drop a slice of butter toast,

00:38:31 ◼   ► it's always gonna land butter side down.

00:38:33 ◼   ► It's because that's what you remember

00:38:35 ◼   ► is the time that it did that.

00:38:36 ◼   ► It just seems like it's more often than not,

00:38:40 ◼   ► when I wanna check the date, it's quarter after.

00:38:43 ◼   ► It's just like, oh my God, how come every time

00:38:46 ◼   ► I wanna check the date, it's quarter after

00:38:48 ◼   ► and I can't see the date?

00:38:49 ◼   ► What the hell?

00:38:51 ◼   ► And that's not true.

00:38:52 ◼   ► It's just that all the other times I check the date,

00:38:54 ◼   ► I don't remember that, but the times that it is blocked,

00:38:57 ◼   ► I remember and then it just feels like

00:38:59 ◼   ► it's always quarter after.

00:39:01 ◼   ► Just like when you play blackjack,

00:39:04 ◼   ► it seems like I always get 16.

00:39:06 ◼   ► That's all I remember.

00:39:07 ◼   ► Every goddamn hand.

00:39:08 ◼   ► - You only ever get 16.

00:39:10 ◼   ► - All I ever get are 16s.

00:39:11 ◼   ► and the dealer gets a blackjack every goddamn time.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Every time, how is that possible?

00:39:16 ◼   ► - It's unreal.

00:39:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, so that is true.

00:39:18 ◼   ► And I think that too, it also, it stinks,

00:39:22 ◼   ► it doesn't stink, it sticks out with the Apple Watch

00:39:25 ◼   ► even more because when it happens,

00:39:28 ◼   ► you realize that you have the option

00:39:30 ◼   ► of changing to a different face that it fixes it.

00:39:33 ◼   ► You know, like if you buy an analog watch

00:39:36 ◼   ► and the date gets covered up when it's quarter after,

00:39:38 ◼   ► you might be annoyed, but you don't think,

00:39:40 ◼   ► well I could spend 10 seconds here and change the WOD face

00:39:43 ◼   ► and fix this problem, right?

00:39:45 ◼   ► Whereas with the Apple Watch, you know,

00:39:47 ◼   ► it's always an option to switch to a different face

00:39:49 ◼   ► where you don't have that problem.

00:39:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And so that Samsung Watch, the Galaxy, the Gear S2,

00:39:56 ◼   ► is a very nice looking circular faced smartwatch.

00:40:01 ◼   ► But I still feel like the circular face is the wrong UI.

00:40:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's--

00:40:09 ◼   ► design. But maybe not catastrophically, you know, like maybe that's not necessarily going to limit

00:40:18 ◼   ► the success of those watches. But I do think, you know, there are some people, this is a funny little

00:40:24 ◼   ► side topic, this square versus round thing. There's a fair number of people who I've seen,

00:40:32 ◼   ► you know, either an email or on Twitter, you know, communicating with me that are predicting

00:40:37 ◼   ► that Apple will eventually go circular because circular watches look better.

00:40:41 ◼   ► People who look at the Apple Watch and say, "I just don't like...

00:40:44 ◼   ► It looks too nerdy to me because it's square." Apple's got... They're going to go circular

00:40:50 ◼   ► eventually. And I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen

00:40:53 ◼   ► either, but... I think it would be... And I think it would be way too hard. Now, of course,

00:40:58 ◼   ► Apple changes things all the time, and they're never really all that worried about making

00:41:02 ◼   ► developers do more work. I mean, they're not, and they shouldn't be. If they were,

00:41:06 ◼   ► it would actually slow them down and in the long run, in the short run it's

00:41:10 ◼   ► always, it's never good if they're making, if they make changes that make

00:41:13 ◼   ► developers do more work. Like the the big change in iOS 7 where the, you know,

00:41:19 ◼   ► pretty much every single app other than games had to redo their entire user

00:41:22 ◼   ► interface or else they would look bad. That's, you know, it's a lot to ask.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Every day all of you with all of your apps have to redo all of the entirety of

00:41:32 ◼   ► your user interface that's a lot to ask but it's the right move going forward

00:41:36 ◼   ► rather than stick with something that's you know going to be outdated still

00:41:40 ◼   ► waiting for a new icon from Instagram they redid the interface right I really

00:41:47 ◼   ► wonder I wonder on don't I can change I would love to hear what what the

00:41:52 ◼   ► argument inside the company is on that because it their icon does really just

00:41:56 ◼   ► being just being dicks at this point and you it's not hard to imagine just and I

00:42:02 ◼   ► I know flat is an overused term,

00:42:05 ◼   ► but just flatten the goddamn thing.

00:42:07 ◼   ► - Right, right, right.

00:42:08 ◼   ► It could be the same colors.

00:42:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, same colors.

00:42:11 ◼   ► I think it would move the drop shadow.

00:42:13 ◼   ► - Right.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Just de-forstall it.

00:42:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I do think the new Samsung,

00:42:24 ◼   ► I'm gonna get it wrong.

00:42:25 ◼   ► On Twitter there, I called it the G2.

00:42:27 ◼   ► It's not the G2, it's the S2.

00:42:29 ◼   ► - Gear S2.

00:42:30 ◼   ► - I'm just gonna call it the Samsung launch.

00:42:31 ◼   ► which is not a great name.

00:42:33 ◼   ► - I actually, here's a case where I wish

00:42:34 ◼   ► that they just copied Apple and just called it Samsung Watch.

00:42:38 ◼   ► 'Cause that's, but then I could remember the name.

00:42:42 ◼   ► But anyway, it, you know, and I was, you know,

00:42:46 ◼   ► pretty complimentary to it when I linked to it.

00:42:47 ◼   ► I, you know, and people who, I saw people,

00:42:51 ◼   ► a few people said, I was surprised

00:42:52 ◼   ► to see you be complimentary to it.

00:42:54 ◼   ► And to me, that, it's like, I'm never trying

00:42:56 ◼   ► to be against Samsung or against Google.

00:42:59 ◼   ► I'm saying what I really think.

00:43:01 ◼   ► And what I really think about most Samsung products

00:43:03 ◼   ► is that they're derivative crap.

00:43:06 ◼   ► So therefore it seems as though I'm against Samsung

00:43:10 ◼   ► because I keep saying it,

00:43:11 ◼   ► but it's because they keep putting out

00:43:12 ◼   ► what I see as derivative crap,

00:43:13 ◼   ► and then they put out something that to me is interesting

00:43:16 ◼   ► and original and looks pretty good.

00:43:17 ◼   ► And so I said, it's interesting

00:43:19 ◼   ► and original and looks pretty good.

00:43:21 ◼   ► They did copy a few things from the Apple Watch.

00:43:23 ◼   ► - Right, that round.

00:43:25 ◼   ► I mean, with their system though,

00:43:28 ◼   ► it's apps instead of contacts, right?

00:43:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:43:33 ◼   ► - It looks like the contacts thing that comes up

00:43:36 ◼   ► when you hit the button on the side of the Apple Watch,

00:43:37 ◼   ► except it's actually apps.

00:43:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the other thing is, did you see the interface?

00:43:43 ◼   ► I couldn't find a better place to link to it,

00:43:46 ◼   ► but there's just a couple seconds of it

00:43:47 ◼   ► in the Verges video where they show what it,

00:43:50 ◼   ► when you, they don't call them complications,

00:43:52 ◼   ► I forget what they call them.

00:43:53 ◼   ► They came up with a new word for complications,

00:43:55 ◼   ► but whatever they call the complications

00:43:58 ◼   ► on their watch faces that are user adjustable.

00:44:01 ◼   ► When you go into the edit mode,

00:44:03 ◼   ► it is exactly like Apple Watch.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Like there's a little,

00:44:07 ◼   ► there's dots at the top that you can swipe

00:44:11 ◼   ► between which thing you're editing.

00:44:12 ◼   ► When you're like changing the color of the second hand,

00:44:17 ◼   ► it highlights in the same color,

00:44:20 ◼   ► and they even like use like the same all caps

00:44:24 ◼   ► in a round rack thing that says like color.

00:44:27 ◼   ► If you look for it, it's just exactly,

00:44:30 ◼   ► like it could not be more of a copy.

00:44:33 ◼   ► Kind of embarrassing for them, but.

00:44:36 ◼   ► - But in terms of outward appearance,

00:44:38 ◼   ► for the most part it does not look like anything like it.

00:44:42 ◼   ► And that the, what do they call it?

00:44:45 ◼   ► The--

00:44:46 ◼   ► - The bezel.

00:44:47 ◼   ► - The bezel, yeah, the rotating bezel

00:44:49 ◼   ► as a thing that changes the interface.

00:44:52 ◼   ► is a really good idea.

00:44:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, it seems like it.

00:44:55 ◼   ► And by all reports from people who've had a hands-on with it

00:44:58 ◼   ► it has a good feel to it, which is important.

00:45:00 ◼   ► It's funny, it's actually like,

00:45:03 ◼   ► talking about this is exactly why I like having a podcast.

00:45:07 ◼   ► 'Cause I almost feel like,

00:45:09 ◼   ► even if I had gone really long writing about it,

00:45:12 ◼   ► it would be so much easier just to talk about it,

00:45:15 ◼   ► which is that I wanted to say, look,

00:45:17 ◼   ► they copied a few little things,

00:45:19 ◼   ► But overall, it's mostly an original design

00:45:24 ◼   ► and kudos, and a good one, and kudos to them for that.

00:45:26 ◼   ► But I didn't wanna mention the little things

00:45:28 ◼   ► that they copied because then people would say,

00:45:31 ◼   ► how can you call this a copy?

00:45:33 ◼   ► Right, it's round instead of square,

00:45:35 ◼   ► how can you say it's a rip-off?

00:45:37 ◼   ► And I'm not saying that, I'm just saying

00:45:39 ◼   ► they did steal a few things, but everybody does that.

00:45:42 ◼   ► So I don't even think it's worth complaining about,

00:45:44 ◼   ► in the way that Apple will steal things,

00:45:46 ◼   ► like Command Tab, which was a Windows invention.

00:45:50 ◼   ► So taking little good ideas from the other guys is okay.

00:45:53 ◼   ► It's the--

00:45:55 ◼   ► - When you wholesale copy the whole entire thing.

00:45:58 ◼   ► - Right, when you get Phil Schiller on the stand

00:46:01 ◼   ► in a court case and they hold up a thing

00:46:03 ◼   ► and he says, "I can't tell if that's--"

00:46:04 ◼   ► - They can't tell the difference.

00:46:06 ◼   ► - If that's ours or his.

00:46:07 ◼   ► And it's like, you know damn well you can tell

00:46:09 ◼   ► if that's ours.

00:46:10 ◼   ► - But one of the other things I liked about it

00:46:12 ◼   ► that it kind of more so than any of the other any of the Android wear watches.

00:46:18 ◼   ► And then I know this one's based on Tizen, but that it has a good sense of what it is.

00:46:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:46:25 ◼   ► - There's like two of them. There's like two levels, right? And one of them looks like to

00:46:29 ◼   ► me like a swatch, which is not a cut down. And the other one looks like a good like $80 or $90,

00:46:36 ◼   ► a hundred, something like that. Sort of a mid range watch. And I'm sure they'll probably cost

00:46:40 ◼   ► more because they have they have more features they should cost more and it

00:46:44 ◼   ► just but we don't still don't know how much they're gonna cost but they didn't

00:46:47 ◼   ► like the to me the the motor role just looks flat-out terrible the three

00:46:53 ◼   ► motor all 360 just looks terrible because it's just a cylinder cut off

00:46:57 ◼   ► with like little prongs on the end to attach a band to and then the other one

00:47:02 ◼   ► that's a big Android where watches the horribly named LG one the oh yeah

00:47:08 ◼   ► Watcher Bane

00:47:10 ◼   ► Which looks like it's trying to be a fancy watch

00:47:14 ◼   ► But it looks like it's made out of cheap materials

00:47:17 ◼   ► Is that the one that has numbers printed around the bezel like hardware printed around the bezel?

00:47:23 ◼   ► I don't think so. No. No, there's one that has like a third like 15 30 45

00:47:29 ◼   ► Around the outside which really is really weird on it. That's very strange on a smartwatch. Yeah

00:47:36 ◼   ► Like it's I know why it's there because you're using it to tell time most of the time

00:47:40 ◼   ► But it just seems like a weird it just seems weird that it's been on the hardware instead of doing it on the screen

00:47:45 ◼   ► But that's the one that people

00:47:46 ◼   ► The LG one is the one that people most point to and say or had up to date

00:47:50 ◼   ► Pointed to and said that looks like a real watch. Yeah

00:47:54 ◼   ► Which I mean, you know there there have been square watches before

00:47:59 ◼   ► And also it looks like a real crappy watch to me

00:48:03 ◼   ► Yeah, whereas this one looks like a good like maybe, you know somewhat more casual not super fancy, but like a good watch

00:48:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it's it's funny because I feel like in my experience

00:48:13 ◼   ► You really do have to see any watch in person to truly get a sense of the size

00:48:18 ◼   ► Like seeing a photograph of it on somebody's wrist just doesn't really work

00:48:23 ◼   ► Although if it's if it's a huge enough like the original moto

00:48:26 ◼   ► 270

00:48:28 ◼   ► You can tell just by looking at the picture that it's humongous

00:48:31 ◼   ► But then when you look at it in real life,

00:48:32 ◼   ► you're like, oh my God, it's even bigger than I thought.

00:48:35 ◼   ► But that said, the numbers of the,

00:48:39 ◼   ► I think the Samsung, there's two sizes, 40 and 42.

00:48:41 ◼   ► And 40 millimeters is really a standard size

00:48:46 ◼   ► for a watch today.

00:48:48 ◼   ► The old standard for men's watches, older,

00:48:51 ◼   ► like going back decades, was more like 36 millimeters.

00:48:53 ◼   ► But 40 is pretty standard.

00:48:58 ◼   ► And obviously comparable roughly to Apple's 42.

00:49:02 ◼   ► It is interesting to me that even a year later,

00:49:05 ◼   ► even Samsung can't yet match Apple on the 38.

00:49:08 ◼   ► 'Cause I do think one of the problems with the Samsung one.

00:49:12 ◼   ► So I think the Samsung one, totally credible,

00:49:15 ◼   ► just as like a piece of jewelry on a man's wrist.

00:49:17 ◼   ► And to me, it's the first one that's not the Apple Watch

00:49:22 ◼   ► that qualifies for that, really.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Even the LG one, I don't really think looks that good.

00:49:27 ◼   ► I still don't think though that the Samsung one,

00:49:32 ◼   ► even the smaller one,

00:49:33 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna be something that women would wear.

00:49:38 ◼   ► I just don't think it's small enough yet.

00:49:40 ◼   ► And I think Samsung kind of knows it

00:49:41 ◼   ► because I don't think any of the bands that they've done

00:49:45 ◼   ► look like they're targeted at women.

00:49:48 ◼   ► That's not to say no women will buy it.

00:49:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, yeah, right.

00:49:52 ◼   ► - And watches are a funny thing,

00:49:53 ◼   ► whereas an awful lot of--

00:49:54 ◼   ► - People like different styles.

00:49:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:49:56 ◼   ► of women wear like big chunky watches. Well and look at the Apple Watch there's

00:50:01 ◼   ► an awful lot of the you know especially the most popular ones like the sport the

00:50:05 ◼   ► sport ones are you know unisex you know I think you know you could argue that

00:50:09 ◼   ► the pink band is you know probably if you know more feminine but I would say

00:50:17 ◼   ► other than the pink all of the other colors even the black are are unisex you

00:50:22 ◼   ► know I wouldn't say that you know that there's really any kind of gender

00:50:26 ◼   ► towards that. I think that the the link bracelet is probably you know to me

00:50:31 ◼   ► looks masculine but most of the other ones I think are unisex but I think

00:50:37 ◼   ► Samsung's with the like the leather and stuff like that I I think they look like

00:50:41 ◼   ► men's watches just in general. Yeah yeah I mean I would say I would say that a

00:50:47 ◼   ► man would be more likely to like it than than a woman which is not you know not

00:50:53 ◼   ► to make a flat out blanket statement. So an interesting thing that I was not

00:50:59 ◼   ► aware of somebody on Twitter pointed out to me that that the fact that they're

00:51:03 ◼   ► using Tizen instead of Android Wear opens up China to them and that Android

00:51:09 ◼   ► Wear apparently is not there's no Android Wear watches aren't available in

00:51:13 ◼   ► China and I could be wrong here just going from a guy on Twitter and I asked

00:51:17 ◼   ► him to clarify and he said that I did know that this was true that you know

00:51:22 ◼   ► know how like with Android, Samsung takes Android from Google and if they agree to such

00:51:30 ◼   ► and such, they can have these Google apps built in but they still get to customize the

00:51:34 ◼   ► interface with, what do they call it, TouchWiz, and they can add their own apps and stuff.

00:51:41 ◼   ► Android Wear, there is no option to do that. Android Wear, you get Android Wear and you

00:51:46 ◼   ► do it. I think you can add custom faces but that's about it. You can't disentangle it.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Your own apps in there. Yeah, and it's like you and that's a problem in China because in China

00:51:57 ◼   ► I guess all the Android phones are all you know, instead of having Google search and stuff like that

00:52:01 ◼   ► They've all got the the Chinese equivalents

00:52:03 ◼   ► right

00:52:06 ◼   ► So that's interesting because I've heard China is a big market

00:52:10 ◼   ► Now the Allen the Apple watch is definitely on sale in China, yeah, well, but that's somehow you know

00:52:18 ◼   ► You know, that's just Apple being yeah, right, right. I

00:52:23 ◼   ► Think that I guess I don't even know I'd got me thinking about it

00:52:28 ◼   ► Like does if you're in China with an iPhone, I guess that the App Store has different apps

00:52:34 ◼   ► I mean, I don't even know how that how that works

00:52:36 ◼   ► I've never really thought about that but with the way that China, you know has the the great firewall for internet access

00:52:41 ◼   ► How does the App Store work in China? I actually I should probably do some research on this

00:52:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, we should probably all brush up

00:52:50 ◼   ► on how things work in China.

00:52:52 ◼   ► - If anybody out there knows--

00:52:53 ◼   ► - We should have done that five years ago.

00:52:55 ◼   ► - If anybody out there knows,

00:52:56 ◼   ► send me email and explain this to me.

00:52:57 ◼   ► I would love to hear about it,

00:52:59 ◼   ► but it seems very confusing to me.

00:53:01 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, I'm interested by your article,

00:53:06 ◼   ► but I do think Samsung did a good job with the S2.

00:53:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:53:10 ◼   ► - The other thing it got me thinking about too,

00:53:15 ◼   ► and I've mentioned this on "Daring Fireball,"

00:53:16 ◼   ► But the watch, and this kind of leads into the next topic,

00:53:20 ◼   ► which is next week and what we expect,

00:53:22 ◼   ► and talking about Apple TV.

00:53:24 ◼   ► But the thing that's so weird about these smartwatches

00:53:28 ◼   ► is the way that they're all,

00:53:30 ◼   ► and I think eventually they'll be independent

00:53:34 ◼   ► and they'll just have their own internet access.

00:53:36 ◼   ► But the way that everybody's,

00:53:38 ◼   ► whether it's Apple's or Android's or Tizen,

00:53:40 ◼   ► is tied to the phone, a phone, that it's paired with

00:53:45 ◼   ► to get most of its information and apps and stuff like that.

00:53:48 ◼   ► That people don't really have a choice here.

00:53:51 ◼   ► Like if it's really, do you wanna get a smartwatch or not?

00:53:54 ◼   ► And if you do, you're on one side of the fence.

00:53:57 ◼   ► You can only use an Apple Watch if your phone is an iPhone.

00:54:01 ◼   ► - Right.

00:54:03 ◼   ► - And I guess--

00:54:04 ◼   ► - You can use an Android Wear now on the iPhone.

00:54:08 ◼   ► - But it's very, very unlikely.

00:54:11 ◼   ► I mean, that's-- - Yes, yes.

00:54:13 ◼   ► I just can't imagine how many people would do that.

00:54:16 ◼   ► - Right.

00:54:17 ◼   ► - It's very unlikely.

00:54:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:54:19 ◼   ► And supposedly, I guess, Samsung was quoted recently

00:54:21 ◼   ► as saying that they're gonna try and bring the Tizen watch

00:54:25 ◼   ► to the iPhone as well.

00:54:27 ◼   ► - Why bother?

00:54:28 ◼   ► I honestly, I don't know.

00:54:29 ◼   ► - I would like to try one.

00:54:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I guess it's true.

00:54:31 ◼   ► - I would be interested in trying one,

00:54:32 ◼   ► depending on how much it costs, but I would--

00:54:34 ◼   ► - Right.

00:54:35 ◼   ► - I might pick up the low-end one and give it a try.

00:54:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would do that, but that's just me being stupid.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I mean, I shouldn't even call it stupid.

00:54:42 ◼   ► I could totally justify it as a business expense

00:54:44 ◼   ► that I might write about.

00:54:45 ◼   ► Same reason that I bought the Pebble.

00:54:47 ◼   ► I paid for both generations of Pebble

00:54:49 ◼   ► just so I could speak about them intelligently.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Knowing going in that it was almost certain

00:54:54 ◼   ► that I wasn't gonna actually wear it regularly.

00:54:57 ◼   ► But I just think it makes it so interesting.

00:55:01 ◼   ► And a little sad, 'cause I do wish

00:55:03 ◼   ► that they were independent so that I could just spend,

00:55:05 ◼   ► 'cause I'm gonna guess that the Samsung One

00:55:08 ◼   ► is like $300 to $400.

00:55:10 ◼   ► That's what I'm gonna guess.

00:55:12 ◼   ► Maybe up to five, but probably not.

00:55:15 ◼   ► I just don't see how they could justify it.

00:55:17 ◼   ► - No, I wouldn't think it's that much.

00:55:20 ◼   ► I would not think it's that much.

00:55:21 ◼   ► I was wondering if it might be a little bit cheaper, like 250.

00:55:23 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:55:24 ◼   ► Did you see, I know you mentioned this too in your article,

00:55:28 ◼   ► that there's a new generation of Moto 360s

00:55:31 ◼   ► that are still, they're still 270s.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Even a year later, they've still got the flat tire design.

00:55:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:55:41 ◼   ► I thought you made a mistake earlier.

00:55:43 ◼   ► I get it now.

00:55:44 ◼   ► When you called it a 270.

00:55:46 ◼   ► - Oh, I've been doing that for a while.

00:55:48 ◼   ► I've been doing that all year.

00:55:50 ◼   ► I think I really want everyone,

00:55:51 ◼   ► I wish that they just renamed it Numoto 270.

00:55:54 ◼   ► It is smaller, but did you notice that they've come out,

00:56:00 ◼   ► and again, I wouldn't call this copying Apple,

00:56:03 ◼   ► but it's come out with a very large variety of colors

00:56:07 ◼   ► and bands and straps to choose from.

00:56:10 ◼   ► I wouldn't say that that's ripping off Apple at all because you know that's just

00:56:17 ◼   ► you know that's but it's just interesting to me though that Apple

00:56:21 ◼   ► defined this that aspect of the smart watch right away you know that that the

00:56:28 ◼   ► way to go is to be you know to have you know get in all the accessories right

00:56:32 ◼   ► and cover of a reasonable range of styles which is interesting that they

00:56:40 ◼   ► they because they have never done that with the iPhone particularly know the

00:56:46 ◼   ► eye or the iPad they'll make they'll make us a couple of cases and that's it

00:56:51 ◼   ► yeah yes they had I guess they have a few they have a few iPhone cases now

00:56:56 ◼   ► don't they they have like a leather one and a plastic one yeah but they yeah but

00:57:01 ◼   ► it's not a big deal it's no it's nowhere near as no and they have lots of watch

00:57:05 ◼   ► bands now and that's one of the things that may be coming next week is more

00:57:10 ◼   ► bands. Yeah well I one thing I do notice like so for example I saw a ton of

00:57:14 ◼   ► iPhones yesterday just because there was a like a huge free music festival this

00:57:21 ◼   ► weekend here in Philly it's like Jay-Z and Beyonce and it's like the Budweiser

00:57:27 ◼   ► made in America fest or something I mean like seriously like hundreds of

00:57:31 ◼   ► thousands of people out on our parkway.

00:57:34 ◼   ► And of course I did not go to it,

00:57:37 ◼   ► but I went for a run yesterday and I thought,

00:57:39 ◼   ► well I'm gonna go, that gives me a target,

00:57:43 ◼   ► couple of miles and I can go up there and check it out.

00:57:46 ◼   ► Thousands, I mean just thousands of people

00:57:48 ◼   ► were heading towards it and lots and lots of people

00:57:52 ◼   ► with their phones out.

00:57:53 ◼   ► And it just struck me yesterday that it just seems like

00:57:58 ◼   ► almost everybody has a phone or an iPhone

00:58:01 ◼   ► and I could tell, you know,

00:58:03 ◼   ► you can always tell from the camera placement

00:58:05 ◼   ► if it's an iPhone, 'cause the iPhone's the only one

00:58:06 ◼   ► that has it up in the corner.

00:58:08 ◼   ► And that everybody has a case,

00:58:10 ◼   ► and that I don't think I saw anybody

00:58:13 ◼   ► with the same case as each other.

00:58:14 ◼   ► Like, I think if I had taken a picture

00:58:16 ◼   ► of every single person I saw with an iPhone,

00:58:18 ◼   ► and it would have been dozens and dozens of people,

00:58:20 ◼   ► that no two people have the same case.

00:58:24 ◼   ► It's tons of variety there.

00:58:26 ◼   ► And I kind of feel like that's a less,

00:58:28 ◼   ► I feel like Apple has sort of embraced that.

00:58:30 ◼   ► And the more I think about it as the years gone on,

00:58:32 ◼   ► like that that's why the camera bump is there.

00:58:36 ◼   ► That's why they were willing to live with it

00:58:38 ◼   ► 'cause they realized that most people

00:58:40 ◼   ► were gonna use it in a case anyway.

00:58:41 ◼   ► And so the camera bump doesn't matter.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Even though for people like me,

00:58:45 ◼   ► it breaks my heart every single day.

00:58:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:48 ◼   ► - The camera bump?

00:58:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, every day.

00:58:50 ◼   ► There's not a day,

00:58:52 ◼   ► not a single day has gone by in the last year

00:58:54 ◼   ► that it has not occurred to me,

00:58:55 ◼   ► at least at some point when my finger

00:58:57 ◼   ► has encountered that bump that ugh,

00:58:59 ◼   ► This is gross.

00:59:00 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:59:03 ◼   ► - Every day.

00:59:04 ◼   ► - I feel like I've gotten used to it.

00:59:05 ◼   ► - No, no.

00:59:06 ◼   ► - I don't feel like I give it too much of a thought.

00:59:09 ◼   ► - Oh, well I--

00:59:11 ◼   ► - And you don't use a case, right?

00:59:12 ◼   ► - No, I've never used a case.

00:59:14 ◼   ► Months ago, for months I thought, like last year,

00:59:16 ◼   ► I thought, well that's something that they could fix

00:59:18 ◼   ► next year with the 6S, 'cause even with the S year

00:59:21 ◼   ► where they don't really change the physical design,

00:59:24 ◼   ► surely they could just make the camera flush with the back.

00:59:27 ◼   ► but now I'm thinking I'm not expecting it next week.

00:59:31 ◼   ► It's funny 'cause it's the way that I obsess

00:59:33 ◼   ► over these tiny little details that most people don't.

00:59:37 ◼   ► It's like the main thing I'm curious about for next week

00:59:40 ◼   ► is whether or not the new phones will have a bump.

00:59:42 ◼   ► I think they probably will because I think that they've,

00:59:45 ◼   ► I think that they've kind of given into the fact

00:59:47 ◼   ► that most people use the phone in a case.

00:59:49 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, but isn't the reason

00:59:53 ◼   ► there's a bump simply physics?

00:59:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, but they, you know.

01:00:00 ◼   ► - So they, in order to get the right focal length, right?

01:00:03 ◼   ► - Right.

01:00:03 ◼   ► - It has to be a certain depth,

01:00:05 ◼   ► and because they want the phone to be thinner,

01:00:08 ◼   ► at some point, the camera has to stick out.

01:00:11 ◼   ► - Well, or if it didn't stick out,

01:00:14 ◼   ► it would be a--

01:00:16 ◼   ► - Crappier camera.

01:00:17 ◼   ► - Right, it would be a less visually,

01:00:19 ◼   ► you know, what would be the word?

01:00:20 ◼   ► It would be a worse camera.

01:00:21 ◼   ► - Right.

01:00:22 ◼   ► - You know, at some point, you know,

01:00:23 ◼   ► but they could make it stick out more

01:00:24 ◼   ► and have it be better.

01:00:26 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

01:00:28 ◼   ► I think it should be telescoping.

01:00:30 ◼   ► - Right.

01:00:31 ◼   ► I think that the old Apple, I think prior to last year,

01:00:35 ◼   ► I think that it was just non-negotiable though

01:00:37 ◼   ► that it was gonna be flush and that they would,

01:00:40 ◼   ► here's how thick we'll make it with,

01:00:43 ◼   ► taking all these factors into how thick

01:00:45 ◼   ► the thing is gonna be, how strong it is,

01:00:46 ◼   ► how much battery they need, how can,

01:00:49 ◼   ► I think how thick an iPhone is is probably

01:00:52 ◼   ► an incredibly complex equation.

01:00:55 ◼   ► - Oh, sure.

01:00:56 ◼   ► just decide it's all of these factors how strong it is is it gonna you know is

01:01:00 ◼   ► it gonna bend famously and you know how good how good will the camera be and I

01:01:06 ◼   ► think it's you know I think before though they'd come to some conclusion

01:01:10 ◼   ► and then they would make the best camera that would fit in that flush whereas

01:01:14 ◼   ► last year they you know said we can make it this then but then the camera is kind

01:01:18 ◼   ► to kind of be crap and they like you know took a shot of whiskey. I just

01:01:26 ◼   ► imagined it I just imagined that Johnny I've really had to take it oh yeah here

01:01:30 ◼   ► to take us to had to take a stiff drink to it's not like being told that physics

01:01:35 ◼   ► is the way it was let's take a break and then we'll talk about it okay because I

01:01:40 ◼   ► have to tell you about my good friends at fracture these guys keep coming back

01:01:45 ◼   ► keep sponsoring the show and the reason is that people keep buying pictures from them and that's

01:01:49 ◼   ► great. These are the guys, you guys know it, I know everybody's, unless you're a new listener,

01:01:55 ◼   ► you know who Fracture is. They're a service you send your digital photos to them and they print

01:02:01 ◼   ► them directly on glass. Not really on the front of the glass, it's actually behind the glass,

01:02:07 ◼   ► but it's an incredibly thin piece of glass. All sorts of sizes ranging from little desktop ones,

01:02:14 ◼   ► little square ones, to big 23 by 29 ones, which is a really, really big size. Really, really thin piece

01:02:21 ◼   ► of glass. They print your image on the back of it so it shines through, but it's so thin it really

01:02:26 ◼   ► does look like it's on the surface of the glass. And again, it's like that same effect as like when

01:02:33 ◼   ► Apple started laminating the iPhone displays to the touchscreen to the glass, where it no longer

01:02:39 ◼   ► look like pixels under glass, it looked like pixels on the glass. That's exactly what these

01:02:43 ◼   ► fracture prints look like. Really, really neat effect. But also, and I'm stealing this from

01:02:50 ◼   ► Marco's read on an ATP recently, and I didn't really think about this until Marco said it,

01:02:55 ◼   ► but because their glass is so thin, their pictures are super, super lightweight.

01:03:00 ◼   ► And I've noticed that with the ones we have in our house too. It's usually with a reasonably sized

01:03:05 ◼   ► picture and the frame and everything. It's a big heavy thing on the wall. And I know there's,

01:03:09 ◼   ► you know you get the special things you tap in the wall and it's you know it all

01:03:12 ◼   ► every time I hang up used to hang up pictures I used to think this is never

01:03:15 ◼   ► this is never gonna and I'm not handy so it's like I feel like you know I'm gonna

01:03:22 ◼   ► have to call someone then when there's you know the picture collapses and takes

01:03:25 ◼   ► out a big chunk of the wall I never we get earthquakes out here - yes you got a

01:03:29 ◼   ► real thing the fractures they're so lightweight I never have to worry I

01:03:33 ◼   ► never I have a bunch of them hang around the house and I realized that they're

01:03:36 ◼   ► the only pictures I've ever hung where I haven't walked, stepped away from it,

01:03:40 ◼   ► thinking I'm gonna watch this fall in ten seconds. Really, really lightweight.

01:03:44 ◼   ► It's just great. It's so great that if you've ever tried this, you're never

01:03:49 ◼   ► gonna... it has occurred to me, and I really do believe this, you're never ever going

01:03:54 ◼   ► to hang your own photographs by printing it on paper and then putting them in a

01:03:58 ◼   ► frame again. You're never gonna use anything but fracture. And it solves so

01:04:03 ◼   ► many other problems too. Another problem, I have, like you go to Ikea and buy a frame

01:04:06 ◼   ► and you put a picture in there. I never get the damn picture to sit so that when you close

01:04:12 ◼   ► the thing up and you put all the clasps in and it just drops a little bit and you see

01:04:16 ◼   ► like a piece of the backing behind the thing in there.

01:04:20 ◼   ► Or your thumb, or your thumb prints on the inside of the glass.

01:04:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it's, it's a mess. Like the old way of doing it. I've, I've been thinking about

01:04:27 ◼   ► this lately because I've been trying to think of new things to say about fracture and that's

01:04:29 ◼   ► another one. It's like the old way of doing it where you have a picture that's

01:04:33 ◼   ► printed out and you put it in a frame. It's a huge pain in the ass. It's an

01:04:37 ◼   ► enormous pain in the ass. Fracture solves all these problems. So anytime you need

01:04:41 ◼   ► to print a picture, just go to Fracture. I can't even see why you would do

01:04:45 ◼   ► anything else. Now here's the other thing. You can... what's the code for... I don't

01:04:50 ◼   ► even know. The goddamn notes don't have a code, but I could probably find it. I'll

01:04:54 ◼   ► bet they've sponsored the show recently. I'll just go to my website. Probably the

01:04:59 ◼   ► talk show? What do you think? What's your guess? That would be my guess.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Nope. Daring Fireball. We should just make it a game. Let's make it a game for

01:05:12 ◼   ► all these sponsors what the code is. Well anyway, use that code daring fireball

01:05:17 ◼   ► when you go to fracture. Fractureme.com is their URL. Go there. Use that code

01:05:21 ◼   ► when you print your pictures out and you will save 15% off your first order. I

01:05:27 ◼   ► I really do mean this in complete sincerity.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Even if they never sponsored my show again,

01:05:32 ◼   ► I can't imagine why anybody else would,

01:05:34 ◼   ► why you would ever print a photo any other way

01:05:36 ◼   ► to hang on your wall than to go to fracture.

01:05:39 ◼   ► It's that good and that easy.

01:05:41 ◼   ► So my thanks to them.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Go buy some pictures.

01:05:43 ◼   ► All right, what else we got?

01:05:47 ◼   ► We got next week.

01:05:48 ◼   ► Should we talk about next week?

01:05:49 ◼   ► - Next week, which is technically this week.

01:05:52 ◼   ► - Technically this week.

01:05:54 ◼   ► So in a couple days I will be flying to California.

01:05:57 ◼   ► And Apple is having an event.

01:06:02 ◼   ► - It's Wednesday, right?

01:06:03 ◼   ► - It's a Wednesday event which is,

01:06:05 ◼   ► it's easy to figure out why.

01:06:08 ◼   ► I'm not smart until somebody else told me this,

01:06:11 ◼   ► but it's because they didn't wanna make people fly

01:06:14 ◼   ► on Labor Day.

01:06:15 ◼   ► Apple loves us, we in the media, so much.

01:06:20 ◼   ► - That's very sweet.

01:06:21 ◼   ► - So much respect for me that they wanted

01:06:23 ◼   ► make sure I got a complete three-day weekend

01:06:26 ◼   ► to relax from my backbreaking schedule

01:06:30 ◼   ► so that I didn't have to fly on Monday.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And I guess, presumably, so that Apple themselves

01:06:37 ◼   ► wouldn't have to work, you know,

01:06:40 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm gonna guess that most of the people

01:06:42 ◼   ► involved in this event are probably pretty busy this weekend

01:06:44 ◼   ► that they're not really relaxing, but--

01:06:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, no. (laughs)

01:06:49 ◼   ► - Anyway. - Yeah, which is kinda,

01:06:50 ◼   ► which probably stinks, right?

01:06:51 ◼   ► I mean, like, school starts for us this week.

01:06:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, same here.

01:06:56 ◼   ► - I think in California it started already though.

01:06:58 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:06:59 ◼   ► - I think it started last week,

01:07:00 ◼   ► 'cause somebody, I mentioned that to somebody else,

01:07:03 ◼   ► and they said now school started last week.

01:07:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, and there are a lot of places in Pennsylvania now

01:07:07 ◼   ► that start in, started last week too,

01:07:09 ◼   ► which is crazy to me.

01:07:11 ◼   ► There are a lot of places that start in August,

01:07:13 ◼   ► which to me just seems criminal.

01:07:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:07:16 ◼   ► Although, I mean, this year, Labor Day is really late.

01:07:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is really late.

01:07:19 ◼   ► - So starting after Labor Day is kind of like.

01:07:22 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:07:23 ◼   ► But there are also, I guess too,

01:07:25 ◼   ► you know what it might be?

01:07:26 ◼   ► It might be too that I would not be surprised one bit

01:07:31 ◼   ► if this facility that the place has some kind of union

01:07:35 ◼   ► workers that cannot be, have to get off for Labor Day.

01:07:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:07:41 ◼   ► - And that they need, they definitely need to be in there

01:07:44 ◼   ► doing stuff the day before.

01:07:45 ◼   ► So anyway, it's all because of Labor Day.

01:07:48 ◼   ► Thanks, Labor Day.

01:07:49 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:50 ◼   ► - Thanks for nothing.

01:07:51 ◼   ► - All right.

01:07:52 ◼   ► - So one of the things that might,

01:07:56 ◼   ► okay, so new phones, right?

01:07:58 ◼   ► - New phones are a sure thing.

01:07:59 ◼   ► I think that there is the surest thing

01:08:02 ◼   ► in the universe regarding this event.

01:08:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:08:06 ◼   ► And Mark Gurman says they might actually be thicker.

01:08:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:08:12 ◼   ► - Just slightly, maybe for most people,

01:08:15 ◼   ► imperceptibly thicker.

01:08:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that that's,

01:08:18 ◼   ► I think he's not even alone in reporting that.

01:08:21 ◼   ► A lot of the stuff that's come out,

01:08:23 ◼   ► goddamn kid has some sources.

01:08:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:08:26 ◼   ► - Although some of them it's weird,

01:08:27 ◼   ► it's weird who some of his sources are.

01:08:30 ◼   ► I know him well enough and I do trust him.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I think every single word he writes is true,

01:08:39 ◼   ► but that doesn't mean that all the things

01:08:40 ◼   ► he says are gonna happen are gonna happen.

01:08:42 ◼   ► Like he's always, you know, he'll say that, you know,

01:08:44 ◼   ► like he gave away the name of the force touch screen,

01:08:49 ◼   ► that it's the 3D touch screen,

01:08:51 ◼   ► that's what they're gonna call it.

01:08:53 ◼   ► But that his source,

01:08:53 ◼   ► and this is just like yesterday or the day before,

01:08:55 ◼   ► but his sources said that it could change.

01:08:58 ◼   ► Well, it's like, I believe him that somebody within Apple

01:09:02 ◼   ► told him that at some point they were thinking

01:09:04 ◼   ► about calling it the 3D touch screen

01:09:06 ◼   ► or whatever he says they're gonna call it.

01:09:08 ◼   ► But if his source really knew,

01:09:11 ◼   ► they would, you know, today,

01:09:13 ◼   ► like five days before the event,

01:09:14 ◼   ► They would know it for a fact, you know what I mean?

01:09:17 ◼   ► So like, what he wrote is exactly true,

01:09:20 ◼   ► that it could come out with another name,

01:09:23 ◼   ► but that at some point that's what they were thinking about.

01:09:25 ◼   ► But that just, you know, but it's not surprising though.

01:09:28 ◼   ► - It's not changing in between the time

01:09:30 ◼   ► that the article is being published

01:09:32 ◼   ► and the time of the announcement.

01:09:34 ◼   ► They're not changing the name behind the scenes

01:09:38 ◼   ► and then running out and sanding it off of--

01:09:41 ◼   ► - Right.

01:09:42 ◼   ► a bunch of boxes or whatever, reprinting a bunch of--

01:09:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, 3D, he says they're gonna call it

01:09:48 ◼   ► the 3D Touch Display, which seems reasonable,

01:09:51 ◼   ► because it's got some kind of force.

01:09:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a technology that not everybody is.

01:09:57 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:09:57 ◼   ► - Well, although, I mean, I guess it's gonna be,

01:10:00 ◼   ► if it's a feature that's one of the,

01:10:03 ◼   ► we're on the talk here, right?

01:10:06 ◼   ► And so they have to play up whatever they add

01:10:09 ◼   ► to in order to get people to go with that phone.

01:10:12 ◼   ► - Yeah. - So the force touch aspect

01:10:15 ◼   ► of it actually becomes a big deal.

01:10:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah. - And the technology behind it

01:10:20 ◼   ► becomes the kind of thing that you use to sell the idea

01:10:24 ◼   ► of, okay, you can touch on things and you get

01:10:27 ◼   ► like a added functionality by the different ways

01:10:32 ◼   ► you press on them. - Yeah.

01:10:34 ◼   ► I think, though, it's interesting, and he has a couple of,

01:10:39 ◼   ► you know, he's written about it before,

01:10:40 ◼   ► And a couple of ideas that you,

01:10:43 ◼   ► clearly somebody who's seen what they're tinkering with

01:10:45 ◼   ► has spilled this to them,

01:10:48 ◼   ► that if you force touch on an icon on the home screen

01:10:51 ◼   ► that you'll get a menu of options

01:10:54 ◼   ► of what to do with the app,

01:10:56 ◼   ► or that you could jump to something within the app.

01:10:58 ◼   ► So you could like, just on the home screen, force touch.

01:11:01 ◼   ► This is an example that Germin gave you.

01:11:03 ◼   ► Force touch on the phone app,

01:11:05 ◼   ► and you'll get an option that would let you

01:11:07 ◼   ► jump right to voicemail,

01:11:08 ◼   ► so you don't have to launch the app

01:11:10 ◼   ► and I don't know if that's actually even easier.

01:11:14 ◼   ► But anyway, that's what he says.

01:11:16 ◼   ► But he doesn't really have a lot, though,

01:11:18 ◼   ► about what they're gonna do with force touch.

01:11:20 ◼   ► - How it's gonna work, yeah.

01:11:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's just interesting

01:11:26 ◼   ► how far down the chain his sources are,

01:11:29 ◼   ► because somebody within Apple knows everything about it,

01:11:31 ◼   ► and I think that they've done, actually,

01:11:34 ◼   ► a reasonably good job of keeping that under wraps.

01:11:38 ◼   ► - There hasn't been any, you know,

01:11:41 ◼   ► no screenshots, no anything.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - So, Gorman has said though that it's both,

01:11:46 ◼   ► 'cause you know, Apple's using this for stuff

01:11:48 ◼   ► in different ways, right?

01:11:49 ◼   ► Like, on the MacBooks, it's a physical thing

01:11:54 ◼   ► where you press it and it gives you this false sensation

01:12:00 ◼   ► that there's a physical click.

01:12:02 ◼   ► On the watch, it doesn't feel like it clicks,

01:12:07 ◼   ► It's just, it uses the--

01:12:09 ◼   ► - The vibration.

01:12:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, it uses the Taptic Engine,

01:12:12 ◼   ► but it doesn't feel like the screen clicks.

01:12:14 ◼   ► It feels like the watch itself is--

01:12:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, you're feeling it, right.

01:12:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, it just gives you a tap,

01:12:18 ◼   ► but it doesn't feel like the screen clicks.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I wonder, you know, which way,

01:12:26 ◼   ► and it doesn't seem clear to me from the rumors,

01:12:28 ◼   ► and I'm glad, I'm kind of excited to find out how it works,

01:12:30 ◼   ► like which way the phones are gonna work.

01:12:32 ◼   ► Is it just gonna be like once in a while you force tap

01:12:36 ◼   ► and the phone will give you a vibration

01:12:38 ◼   ► to let you know that yes, that registered as a phone tap,

01:12:42 ◼   ► which is I think what's more likely,

01:12:45 ◼   ► because it seems simpler,

01:12:46 ◼   ► or is it gonna be more like the MacBook keyboard

01:12:49 ◼   ► where when you click buttons on the screen,

01:12:51 ◼   ► it feels like the screen is clicking where you tapped it?

01:12:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:12:54 ◼   ► - Which would be kind of amazing,

01:12:55 ◼   ► but I'm almost like that's what I'm hoping for,

01:12:57 ◼   ► but I almost feel like--

01:12:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I would hope for too.

01:13:00 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:13:00 ◼   ► - But I feel like I'm hoping to hit the lottery,

01:13:04 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

01:13:05 ◼   ► I don't feel like that's a realistic hope.

01:13:07 ◼   ► - A realistic hope, yeah.

01:13:09 ◼   ► Well, that may be.

01:13:10 ◼   ► And I wonder if the thickness is related to that screen

01:13:13 ◼   ► or if the thickness is more battery.

01:13:17 ◼   ► - Well, but the rumor, and again,

01:13:19 ◼   ► we're all dependent on Germin here,

01:13:21 ◼   ► but I think it was Germin at least

01:13:22 ◼   ► who says that the batteries are actually smaller.

01:13:25 ◼   ► Now, that could just,

01:13:28 ◼   ► that they're actually fewer megawatt hours.

01:13:30 ◼   ► - Physically smaller.

01:13:31 ◼   ► Oh, oh, oh, we actually use less power?

01:13:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, slightly, whatever that,

01:13:34 ◼   ► what's the metric for batteries, megawatt hours,

01:13:36 ◼   ► whatever it is.

01:13:37 ◼   ► Those numbers that are like in the 1800, 2000 range,

01:13:43 ◼   ► that they're actually a little smaller in both phones.

01:13:45 ◼   ► But that could be though, could be the same thing,

01:13:47 ◼   ► that to fit the forced screen in there

01:13:50 ◼   ► and whatever else they're fitting in,

01:13:51 ◼   ► left less room for battery.

01:13:54 ◼   ► So they made it a little thicker so they could at least,

01:13:57 ◼   ► if they hadn't made it thicker,

01:13:59 ◼   ► then the battery would even be smaller

01:14:00 ◼   ► than the actual decrease that they're gonna do, right?

01:14:04 ◼   ► Yeah, they had to decrease the battery because of whatever the else they're putting in there

01:14:09 ◼   ► And if they hadn't made it a little thicker they would have had to make it even more of a drop

01:14:14 ◼   ► Yeah, are you in the the more battery camp because there was a big sort of

01:14:19 ◼   ► Surge of people within the last year who were saying enough with making them thinner. Just make the battery last longer

01:14:26 ◼   ► Yeah

01:14:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I I think if they asked me I would rather have the iPhone 7

01:14:35 ◼   ► Not decrease and in fact here I'm just looking at 9 to 5 Mac. There's actually a report here. Just not a German

01:14:43 ◼   ► It's they're reporting on

01:14:45 ◼   ► Ming Chi quo who knows you know, these a

01:14:48 ◼   ► KGI analyst over in Asia who's had pretty good supply chain sources

01:14:54 ◼   ► He says that next year's phone which you know would according to

01:14:59 ◼   ► Plans be or to tradition be the iPhone 7 is going to be as thin as the iPhone

01:15:04 ◼   ► iPod touches

01:15:06 ◼   ► That's actually been that's actually been the case all along

01:15:10 ◼   ► I it maybe not exactly to the tenth of a millimeter, but at least in general

01:15:14 ◼   ► every you know the way that after the first round the the

01:15:18 ◼   ► Actually even from the original even the original iPod touch was thinner than the iPhone

01:15:23 ◼   ► iPhones have always gotten next-generation iPhones have always been as thick as the iPod touches that came out before

01:15:30 ◼   ► like the current iPhone 6 is as thin as the

01:15:34 ◼   ► iPod touch and so when the iPod touch the current design came out, you know the one that originally came with the wristband

01:15:42 ◼   ► wrist strap attachment

01:15:45 ◼   ► That was when

01:15:47 ◼   ► The iPhone 5 came out and

01:15:51 ◼   ► I remember I've said this before I was I remember it was that so the iPhone 5 came out and was really nice

01:15:58 ◼   ► I think I'd still like my favorite hardware design

01:16:01 ◼   ► Really really nice, but it came out alongside those iPod touches and I remember at the press event

01:16:08 ◼   ► I was hanging around with mg ciggler and we that the table with the iPhones was super crowded three deep

01:16:14 ◼   ► everybody wanted to and and

01:16:17 ◼   ► These people on a deadline at these events are always

01:16:20 ◼   ► There I don't know they're very rude

01:16:22 ◼   ► but everybody wants to get pictures right and so when you read these reports and

01:16:28 ◼   ► Like from home of people at the press people at this event and they're showing pictures from the hands-on area

01:16:35 ◼   ► It they're usually good photos and the people taking the photos are pretty good at framing

01:16:41 ◼   ► but it's it's actually behind the scenes there if you're there, it's actually really like there's a lot of

01:16:49 ◼   ► of jostling to get everybody else's hands out of the way,

01:16:54 ◼   ► so that they can get a shot of just the phone

01:16:57 ◼   ► and make it look nice.

01:16:58 ◼   ► It's actually, really, I don't know.

01:17:03 ◼   ► I just wait.

01:17:04 ◼   ► I wait until it clears out and then I go over.

01:17:08 ◼   ► So MG and I went over to the iPod table

01:17:11 ◼   ► 'cause it was mostly clear.

01:17:12 ◼   ► And we had spent a couple seconds with the iPhone 5

01:17:16 ◼   ► and we were both excited about it and it looks really nice.

01:17:17 ◼   ► And then we looked at this iPod,

01:17:19 ◼   ► and we're like, holy crap is this thin.

01:17:21 ◼   ► This blow, you know, we didn't even,

01:17:24 ◼   ► we didn't even get to use the new iPhone 5 yet.

01:17:26 ◼   ► And we were already like kinda disappointed

01:17:28 ◼   ► by how thick it was because these iPods are so amazing.

01:17:31 ◼   ► But that's how thin the iPhone 6 was two years later.

01:17:34 ◼   ► And so it's always been the case.

01:17:36 ◼   ► And now here Ming-Chi Kuo is saying

01:17:38 ◼   ► that next year's is gonna be as, you know, even thinner.

01:17:42 ◼   ► And so I, you know, that's the way Apple rolls.

01:17:47 ◼   ► but I'm with you, I would rather have them just say,

01:17:50 ◼   ► this is thin enough, and just fill it with battery.

01:17:53 ◼   ► - Oh, I'm actually not in that camp.

01:17:55 ◼   ► Well, not necessarily.

01:17:56 ◼   ► I get enough battery life,

01:17:57 ◼   ► I don't go anywhere for the most part,

01:17:59 ◼   ► so I have enough battery life to get through the day,

01:18:03 ◼   ► and then I recharge it with the watch.

01:18:05 ◼   ► So I don't usually have much of a problem.

01:18:08 ◼   ► And if I do go someplace, I'm usually driving my car,

01:18:10 ◼   ► I just plug it into the car.

01:18:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I will say that, and I will say too,

01:18:13 ◼   ► I don't feel strongly about it,

01:18:14 ◼   ► because I'm trying to remember the last time my phone died

01:18:18 ◼   ► before the end of the day.

01:18:19 ◼   ► And it might actually be the case

01:18:23 ◼   ► that it was a previous iPhone,

01:18:24 ◼   ► that I've never once not gotten through the day

01:18:27 ◼   ► in the last year with my iPhone 6.

01:18:29 ◼   ► - I think the problem is more the incidents

01:18:33 ◼   ► that I have that are somehow software-caused,

01:18:36 ◼   ► because occasionally the phone will just inexplicably

01:18:39 ◼   ► start losing battery life like crazy.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Like one day I'll wake up and it'll just be much,

01:18:46 ◼   ► draining much faster than it did the previous day

01:18:48 ◼   ► for no apparent reason.

01:18:50 ◼   ► And usually just rebooting the phone clears it up.

01:18:54 ◼   ► Or it clears up on its own for some reason

01:18:56 ◼   ► that I haven't been able to fathom.

01:18:58 ◼   ► - Yeah. - So I think,

01:19:00 ◼   ► I don't know if it's managing processes better

01:19:05 ◼   ► or what it is, but there's some software related thing

01:19:08 ◼   ► that's more the problem than the battery size.

01:19:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, and one reason I've been able to get through

01:19:15 ◼   ► the year without ever one time at my phone dive

01:19:18 ◼   ► at the end of the day is that when I anticipate

01:19:21 ◼   ► that I'm gonna be using it heavily in a bandwidth

01:19:24 ◼   ► or in a battery draining situation,

01:19:26 ◼   ► like Disney World is a perfect example,

01:19:27 ◼   ► a day at Disney World, sorry,

01:19:29 ◼   ► I take a standalone Mophie pack with me,

01:19:33 ◼   ► and to me that's a reasonable trade-off,

01:19:35 ◼   ► so I don't feel strongly about it.

01:19:37 ◼   ► But you do think Apple's right to keep making them thinner?

01:19:41 ◼   ► - Well, I wouldn't, I don't know.

01:19:43 ◼   ► I mean, I would think what would be right

01:19:46 ◼   ► is what hits the most users.

01:19:49 ◼   ► And I don't really know which one that is.

01:19:52 ◼   ► One of the things that I will say though,

01:19:54 ◼   ► is that the only thing that I ever looked,

01:19:58 ◼   ► when I looked at Android phones over the years,

01:20:00 ◼   ► the only thing that I was ever covetous of

01:20:02 ◼   ► was their thinner, was the ones that were super thin.

01:20:06 ◼   ► And so this phone is now,

01:20:09 ◼   ► I mean, I feel like the six is thin enough.

01:20:11 ◼   ► I want it to be smaller across,

01:20:15 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna get that this year, it doesn't look like.

01:20:18 ◼   ► - I asked Schiller about that on stage, right?

01:20:20 ◼   ► I'm not misremembering that,

01:20:22 ◼   ► 'cause if I didn't, I wanted to.

01:20:23 ◼   ► - The battery, the battery thing?

01:20:25 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yes, yeah, yeah.

01:20:26 ◼   ► I think you did.

01:20:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I seem to recall his answer was,

01:20:32 ◼   ► it wasn't really a concrete, look,

01:20:34 ◼   ► here's a XYZ, therefore they get thinner.

01:20:37 ◼   ► It's more or less, you know, more or less--

01:20:40 ◼   ► - We're trying to do both kind of thing.

01:20:42 ◼   ► - Well, no, I think it was a very polite way

01:20:45 ◼   ► of saying that I was wrong.

01:20:46 ◼   ► And I believe him, you know what I mean?

01:20:48 ◼   ► They know, he's got access to information

01:20:51 ◼   ► that I don't have.

01:20:51 ◼   ► And I do think part of it too is it is a factor,

01:20:55 ◼   ► it's a lust factor, right?

01:20:57 ◼   ► Which is, look, they're in the business

01:20:59 ◼   ► of selling new iPhones.

01:21:01 ◼   ► That's the business, right?

01:21:03 ◼   ► And part of that, a huge part of that

01:21:05 ◼   ► is to keep iPhone users happy

01:21:08 ◼   ► so that they come back and buy another one.

01:21:10 ◼   ► And so obviously that it is a balancing act

01:21:13 ◼   ► 'cause they don't wanna make it so crazy thin

01:21:15 ◼   ► that everybody's batteries die,

01:21:17 ◼   ► in which case, you know, people would be,

01:21:20 ◼   ► it would be a very likely reason

01:21:21 ◼   ► that would make someone switch

01:21:22 ◼   ► is if they really felt like

01:21:24 ◼   ► their battery was dying every day.

01:21:26 ◼   ► So they definitely wanna avoid that.

01:21:28 ◼   ► But I think a huge factor though

01:21:30 ◼   ► is that showroom appeal, right?

01:21:32 ◼   ► That you're in the, you go in the Apple store

01:21:34 ◼   ► think maybe I'll buy a new iPhone and then you see it and it fills your heart

01:21:37 ◼   ► with that lust and then all of a sudden you're walking you don't even remember

01:21:41 ◼   ► what happened you're walking out you have a new iPhone the battery streamed

01:21:45 ◼   ► already that's obviously that is that's that's part of the appeal right the

01:21:50 ◼   ► batteries did let me get to the car the the those crazy cool phones from looper

01:21:58 ◼   ► remember that you've seen looper right I have seen the bread I don't remember the

01:22:02 ◼   ► - What are the phones for though?

01:22:03 ◼   ► - Oh, it was just a piece of glass.

01:22:04 ◼   ► It was just glass.

01:22:06 ◼   ► Just a piece of glass, and when you,

01:22:09 ◼   ► it's like clear when it's off,

01:22:11 ◼   ► and you turn it on and the screen fills up.

01:22:14 ◼   ► It was like insane, literally could not be thinner.

01:22:17 ◼   ► You wouldn't want it thinner, unless it was like paper.

01:22:19 ◼   ► It couldn't be thinner unless it was

01:22:21 ◼   ► more like an index card than glass.

01:22:23 ◼   ► I think clearly that's where we're heading.

01:22:29 ◼   ► I don't know how we get there,

01:22:31 ◼   ► but thinner is unavoidable.

01:22:34 ◼   ► I guess what I would say is,

01:22:36 ◼   ► I think Apple maybe should just,

01:22:39 ◼   ► if they wanted my advice,

01:22:41 ◼   ► maybe dial back on that a little bit

01:22:43 ◼   ► in favor of battery life.

01:22:45 ◼   ► So anyway, what are we talking about, new iPhones?

01:22:51 ◼   ► Force Touch, 3D display, Touch Display.

01:22:55 ◼   ► - Better camera.

01:22:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, so my thought too,

01:22:58 ◼   ► I've said this before,

01:22:58 ◼   ► but my thought, if my dream comes true

01:23:00 ◼   ► and the taps you feel 'em when you press,

01:23:03 ◼   ► it would be that you can actually feel the keyboard

01:23:07 ◼   ► when you're typing.

01:23:08 ◼   ► Like, and again, that sounds to me too good to be true.

01:23:13 ◼   ► But boy, that would be cool if they pulled that off.

01:23:17 ◼   ► That would be-- - Yeah,

01:23:18 ◼   ► that seems awful fine.

01:23:20 ◼   ► - Right, right, and really fast, right?

01:23:23 ◼   ► 'Cause it would have to, you know,

01:23:25 ◼   ► to be useful at all, it would have to have like no latency.

01:23:29 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:23:30 ◼   ► Have you ever used an Android phone that vibrates when you type?

01:23:33 ◼   ► No.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I think my Nexus, whatever.

01:23:38 ◼   ► I don't have the latest and greatest Nexus.

01:23:40 ◼   ► I have a year-old Nexus that I bought.

01:23:42 ◼   ► Oh, no, no, I didn't buy the Nexus.

01:23:46 ◼   ► I bought the Motorola one with the wooden back, whatever it's called.

01:23:49 ◼   ► I don't remember.

01:23:50 ◼   ► When you type on it, it's an option.

01:23:55 ◼   ► You can obviously turn it off.

01:23:57 ◼   ► When you type on it, it vibrates with each tap.

01:23:59 ◼   ► and it does a very good job of not falling behind,

01:24:04 ◼   ► but I just don't find it to be useful.

01:24:07 ◼   ► I don't know why.

01:24:09 ◼   ► But if it was localized right where,

01:24:12 ◼   ► if it felt like I was actually clicking the key

01:24:15 ◼   ► on the screen, that would be awesome.

01:24:18 ◼   ► I don't think that's possible.

01:24:19 ◼   ► I sure hope so.

01:24:20 ◼   ► What else is coming out with the phone?

01:24:23 ◼   ► Oh, you asked why do I think they made it thicker.

01:24:26 ◼   ► I guess we covered that.

01:24:28 ◼   ► Did you see the report, did you see the video

01:24:30 ◼   ► where the one guy, the baseball cap guy,

01:24:33 ◼   ► you know, I mean, he's like the unboxed Joe.

01:24:38 ◼   ► I think his name is unboxed Joe.

01:24:40 ◼   ► He's a YouTuber and he always wears

01:24:43 ◼   ► a baseball cap backwards and he's the guy

01:24:46 ◼   ► who kinda got the whole Ben Gate thing rolling last year.

01:24:49 ◼   ► When he bent, he's the guy who bent the phone with his hands.

01:24:56 ◼   ► somehow he procured what was claimed to be a iPhone 6s frame,

01:25:01 ◼   ► just the aluminum part.

01:25:06 ◼   ► And he had a very, you know,

01:25:09 ◼   ► I'm kind of ripping on him here,

01:25:11 ◼   ► but he had a really good video where he took it

01:25:13 ◼   ► to like a serious like, you know, engineering shop,

01:25:17 ◼   ► and they like tested the,

01:25:20 ◼   ► they used some kind of fancy equipment

01:25:21 ◼   ► to test the aluminum and sort of prove

01:25:23 ◼   ► it's like a it's like a new like 7,000 series aluminum right right i had heard that part

01:25:30 ◼   ► i had heard that part but i did not know that it came from there yeah uh unbox therapy is his name

01:25:38 ◼   ► okay and that's kind of i mean they did that with they improved the materials between the

01:25:42 ◼   ► five and the 5s as well uh yeah i think so too but yeah because my five my i had i had the space gray

01:25:49 ◼   ► five at scratch to hell, but not so with the Space Grade 5S.

01:25:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I'll put that in the show notes, hopefully.

01:25:58 ◼   ► But yeah, Unbox Therapy has an interesting video.

01:26:03 ◼   ► And it almost certainly is a legit,

01:26:05 ◼   ► I don't know how this stuff, you know,

01:26:07 ◼   ► somebody smoke it out of a factory in Foxconn

01:26:10 ◼   ► and somehow send it to him.

01:26:11 ◼   ► But he also stress tested it and like measured

01:26:14 ◼   ► how many foot pounds of force it takes

01:26:15 ◼   ► to actually bend the frame.

01:26:16 ◼   ► And it's like enormously more durable

01:26:19 ◼   ► than the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus.

01:26:22 ◼   ► - I hope the iPad Pro's made out of the same stuff.

01:26:26 ◼   ► - Ah, I want to.

01:26:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:26:29 ◼   ► - You're like crazy, right?

01:26:31 ◼   ► - What else?

01:26:35 ◼   ► Gurman says that they're going to keep

01:26:37 ◼   ► both the 6 and the 6 Plus in the lineup.

01:26:42 ◼   ► You know, that, which I think makes sense.

01:26:45 ◼   ► I think, you know, and it's also widely reported,

01:26:49 ◼   ► because there's none of these supply chain links.

01:26:52 ◼   ► It's almost, the lack of leaks of a 6C,

01:26:57 ◼   ► plastic 6C, which you and I were thinking they would do

01:27:02 ◼   ► when we talk like a month ago.

01:27:04 ◼   ► Hoping they would do.

01:27:05 ◼   ► But I've given up all hope on that,

01:27:06 ◼   ► because there's no way they're gonna do that.

01:27:09 ◼   ► I think they're gonna do the most obvious thing possible,

01:27:11 ◼   ► which is what they've done.

01:27:12 ◼   ► Every other year other than that 5C year

01:27:14 ◼   ► is just move last year's phone down.

01:27:16 ◼   ► And the fact that there were two last year,

01:27:18 ◼   ► it just means there's two now this year, you know, and that you can choose the 4.7 inch or the 5.5 inch and whatever.

01:27:24 ◼   ► Well, maybe next year. Yeah, I don't think so. You don't think even next year really? Yeah, I've come around

01:27:37 ◼   ► I've changed my mind. I think that the four inch phones are gone forever.

01:27:42 ◼   ► Well, there was a there was even a rumor though that that they were I mean

01:27:45 ◼   ► this was just like a prototype, but that they had a 3.5 inch phone.

01:27:49 ◼   ► That they were working on. I heard that. I'm surprised. Uh,

01:27:54 ◼   ► I don't think so though. I just don't, I don't, I don't see them doing that.

01:27:57 ◼   ► I'm not surprised that they tinkered with it, but, um,

01:28:01 ◼   ► I don't know. I just kind of, my gut feeling now, I hope I'm wrong. I do.

01:28:07 ◼   ► I still do hope I'm wrong and I would love to see them come out with a new four

01:28:10 ◼   ► inch phone or even smaller. I probably would not buy smaller,

01:28:14 ◼   ► but I would be very tempted to buy a new 4 inch one that had good specs, but.

01:28:18 ◼   ► If I could get this year specs in a 4 inch phone,

01:28:21 ◼   ► I would definitely get the 4 inch phone over over the 4.7.

01:28:24 ◼   ► Right. I wouldn't hesitate either. I would definitely do it.

01:28:26 ◼   ► But I think the problem that it will obviously be that you won't get this year

01:28:30 ◼   ► specs you get last year's.

01:28:31 ◼   ► Yeah. The best that we could hope for is to, uh, to get it,

01:28:36 ◼   ► to get like the equivalent of a 5C.

01:28:38 ◼   ► A last year specs in a smaller size. Uh, they got a new,

01:28:43 ◼   ► supposedly a new rose gold color.

01:28:45 ◼   ► I don't really care.

01:28:49 ◼   ► I'm not surprised that the only time

01:28:54 ◼   ► the only time that I have been tempted by

01:28:56 ◼   ► or actually thought that I should have

01:28:58 ◼   ► gotten a different color was the.

01:28:59 ◼   ► Five partially because like

01:29:03 ◼   ► I like I said, the space gray one

01:29:04 ◼   ► nicked like crazy.

01:29:06 ◼   ► Yeah, and I also just really liked

01:29:09 ◼   ► that shape in the white color.

01:29:12 ◼   ► I know we're repeating ourselves here, but the space gray one that nicked really easily.

01:29:19 ◼   ► The first couple of nicks annoyed me, and then once it kind of all got scuffed up, I thought it really looked good.

01:29:25 ◼   ► Like in a Star Wars beat up. You know what I mean?

01:29:30 ◼   ► I thought in a way that your jeans looked good after you've worn them a couple times.

01:29:36 ◼   ► You know?

01:29:37 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:29:38 ◼   ► I thought it had like a cool, you know, I don't know.

01:29:40 ◼   ► I'm sure somebody at Apple is dying hearing that

01:29:45 ◼   ► because they don't really--

01:29:46 ◼   ► - It may not look like much,

01:29:47 ◼   ► but you just gotta work it out.

01:29:49 ◼   ► - I don't know that Apple was shooting for

01:29:50 ◼   ► it looks good scuffed up.

01:29:51 ◼   ► - No, I don't think so either.

01:29:53 ◼   ► But you know, but I still got my original iPhones

01:29:57 ◼   ► and they're dinged like crazy too, scuffed.

01:30:00 ◼   ► - What else with iPhones?

01:30:03 ◼   ► Is there anything else with iPhone that we expect?

01:30:06 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

01:30:07 ◼   ► I mean, I think the big stuff is other things, right?

01:30:09 ◼   ► I mean, this is the talk here,

01:30:11 ◼   ► so it's gonna be same form factor

01:30:13 ◼   ► and just like, you know, possibly the Siri this year

01:30:16 ◼   ► is the Force Touch stuff.

01:30:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I think.

01:30:21 ◼   ► I guess a wildcard would be whether there's like

01:30:24 ◼   ► a serious big worth bragging about improvement

01:30:26 ◼   ► to the camera, but I'm not really expecting that.

01:30:29 ◼   ► I just feel like, you know,

01:30:31 ◼   ► there'll be some kind of improvement,

01:30:32 ◼   ► whether it's megapixels or something,

01:30:34 ◼   ► but I don't think it'll be like a great leap forward.

01:30:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:30:39 ◼   ► - I talked months ago, maybe even a year ago,

01:30:43 ◼   ► where I had heard from, as they say, a little birdie,

01:30:46 ◼   ► that Apple was working on a thing with a two-camera system,

01:30:50 ◼   ► which I don't really understand the physics of,

01:30:52 ◼   ► and I've read some pieces from people

01:30:53 ◼   ► speculating about how that would work,

01:30:55 ◼   ► and it is fascinating to me,

01:30:56 ◼   ► but the basic gist is that there'd be a camera,

01:30:59 ◼   ► a camera that has two lenses right next to each other,

01:31:02 ◼   ► So sort of like, I guess it would be closer though,

01:31:07 ◼   ► but it would just be two circles right next to each other

01:31:10 ◼   ► and that somehow it's like one is focusing far

01:31:14 ◼   ► and one's focusing near and then somehow

01:31:16 ◼   ► it gives amazing results in the resulting image,

01:31:19 ◼   ► like SLR quality photos.

01:31:22 ◼   ► And I think I wrote about it, not podcasted about it,

01:31:25 ◼   ► and I said the next iPhone.

01:31:27 ◼   ► And I didn't mean this year's,

01:31:31 ◼   ► I didn't mean that it was something for the success.

01:31:33 ◼   ► I meant the next iPhone like the next iPhone form factor

01:31:35 ◼   ► because I don't think that that sort of thing

01:31:38 ◼   ► they would ever do in the S year

01:31:40 ◼   ► because it would break the rules of the S year.

01:31:44 ◼   ► Like the S year rules are that the phone's supposed to fit

01:31:48 ◼   ► in last year's cases.

01:31:50 ◼   ► Which I guess is interesting if it is thicker,

01:31:52 ◼   ► like you said, like how many cases will still fit the phone?

01:31:56 ◼   ► That's interesting.

01:31:57 ◼   ► - Well they see, I mean, Germin seemed to think

01:31:58 ◼   ► that it should still fit all of it.

01:31:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause it's-- - So it's not that much thicker.

01:32:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, it sounds like it's, you know,

01:32:04 ◼   ► like the difference in thickness,

01:32:06 ◼   ► you really would have to take out calipers and measure it.

01:32:09 ◼   ► - Yeah. - You probably couldn't do it

01:32:10 ◼   ► with your hands.

01:32:11 ◼   ► - Do you think they're gonna have trouble

01:32:15 ◼   ► blowing past last year's numbers,

01:32:18 ◼   ► because last year's numbers were so huge,

01:32:19 ◼   ► and because they had a pent-up demand

01:32:23 ◼   ► of people who wanted a larger phone?

01:32:25 ◼   ► - I think that that's probably true.

01:32:28 ◼   ► I think, and I just feel like the anecdotal explanation

01:32:31 ◼   ► that you just gave, just a basic, you know,

01:32:34 ◼   ► lots of people had heard that they were gonna do

01:32:37 ◼   ► a bigger phone for long enough.

01:32:41 ◼   ► You know, like that rumor was over a year old.

01:32:44 ◼   ► And you know, it's weird.

01:32:45 ◼   ► It's weird the way that like regular people know

01:32:47 ◼   ► about Apple rumors now.

01:32:49 ◼   ► You know, 'cause people would ask me, you know,

01:32:52 ◼   ► in advance, is Apple really gonna do a bigger phone?

01:32:54 ◼   ► And the fact that people were asking me that was like,

01:32:56 ◼   ► wow, people really do want bigger phones.

01:32:59 ◼   ► And I think you're right,

01:33:00 ◼   ► that there's an awful lot of people

01:33:01 ◼   ► who put off buying an iPhone

01:33:04 ◼   ► that overly inflated last year's iPhone sales.

01:33:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:33:09 ◼   ► And I think people held off long enough

01:33:13 ◼   ► that it's not the kind of thing

01:33:15 ◼   ► where the contract is gonna be the issue.

01:33:20 ◼   ► So it's not like, okay, well, yeah,

01:33:21 ◼   ► but there were those people last year,

01:33:23 ◼   ► but there's a whole set of new people

01:33:24 ◼   ► who just came off contract for this year.

01:33:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, I also think that there might be,

01:33:28 ◼   ► it might be tough to meet the sales that they did in China.

01:33:32 ◼   ► I don't know though, 'cause it's like they're growing

01:33:34 ◼   ► so fast in China, but it felt like last year was the year

01:33:36 ◼   ► they were, where they really exploded in China.

01:33:39 ◼   ► And that if there was pent up demand,

01:33:42 ◼   ► they sold crazy big numbers to meet them.

01:33:44 ◼   ► And that they might have trouble doing that,

01:33:46 ◼   ► but maybe I'm underestimating just how many,

01:33:49 ◼   ► just how many truly like, maybe like tens of millions

01:33:52 ◼   ► of first-time iPhone buyers that are going to expand

01:33:56 ◼   ► in China year after year.

01:33:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's kind of what I think will happen.

01:33:59 ◼   ► I mean, the economy there is a concern,

01:34:02 ◼   ► but it seems like they haven't topped out there yet.

01:34:05 ◼   ► Like, they did run up past the Xiaomi, right?

01:34:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:34:11 ◼   ► - Like in the second quarter, I wanna say.

01:34:14 ◼   ► But they were still, I mean, they had good growth,

01:34:20 ◼   ► but they weren't big enough in China to that point

01:34:22 ◼   ► where they've actually saturated it.

01:34:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the weird thing too about the economy being weak

01:34:29 ◼   ► is that I think it might affect everything

01:34:32 ◼   ► other than phones first,

01:34:33 ◼   ► because phones have turned into this weird thing

01:34:36 ◼   ► that everybody who has one thinks is essential, right?

01:34:40 ◼   ► So the economy goes bad and vacation resorts suffer

01:34:45 ◼   ► because that's one thing people do

01:34:48 ◼   ► like if their investments have gone down

01:34:51 ◼   ► or if you're taking a pay cut

01:34:54 ◼   ► or if you're a small business owner

01:34:55 ◼   ► and the business is down,

01:34:56 ◼   ► you'd cut back on vacations, right?

01:34:58 ◼   ► Or you cut back on jewelry or, you know,

01:35:02 ◼   ► all sorts of things that when the economy goes bad

01:35:04 ◼   ► definitely suffer.

01:35:05 ◼   ► But I feel like phones maybe are maybe not immune to it

01:35:09 ◼   ► but are strong resistance to it

01:35:10 ◼   ► because people, even if the economy's bad

01:35:12 ◼   ► and you're cutting back in other areas,

01:35:14 ◼   ► if you need a new phone, you're still getting a new phone.

01:35:16 ◼   ► And if you're gonna get a new phone,

01:35:17 ◼   ► you're gonna get the one you want, I think.

01:35:20 ◼   ► So I don't know, I feel like the, you know,

01:35:24 ◼   ► and I thought it was really, really telling

01:35:26 ◼   ► that Tim Cook had that public statement to,

01:35:29 ◼   ► what's his name, Jimmy Cramer on CNBC the other week.

01:35:33 ◼   ► - That's good, he's going to jail.

01:35:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:35:39 ◼   ► I guess there was a concern he could get fined.

01:35:42 ◼   ► - I don't know, you know, Tim Cook seems like

01:35:44 ◼   ► such a cautious person, like Steve Jobs

01:35:46 ◼   ► was the type of person who, if he wanted to do it,

01:35:49 ◼   ► was going to do it.

01:35:49 ◼   ► And then he'd figure out the--

01:35:51 ◼   ► and infamously, really did get into trouble

01:35:53 ◼   ► with the backdating of the stock options.

01:35:57 ◼   ► That was, I guess, that was pretty bad.

01:35:59 ◼   ► Tim Cook is so deliberate, or at least he seems to be,

01:36:04 ◼   ► that I would be very surprised if that hadn't been vetted

01:36:09 ◼   ► by Apple's SEC compliance lawyers.

01:36:15 ◼   ► It just seems to me like from what I can tell

01:36:18 ◼   ► of Tim Cook's personality, that if he wanted to do that,

01:36:21 ◼   ► he called up, you know, whether it was

01:36:24 ◼   ► their general counsel, you know,

01:36:26 ◼   ► it would probably just call the general counsel guy

01:36:27 ◼   ► and then say, here's what I wanna do,

01:36:29 ◼   ► let me, you know, here's the exact thing

01:36:32 ◼   ► I wanna email Jim Cramer, I wanna do it tomorrow at 9 a.m.,

01:36:35 ◼   ► is this okay?

01:36:36 ◼   ► I would be very surprised if he didn't do that.

01:36:39 ◼   ► Now, just because one lawyer at Apple looks at it

01:36:41 ◼   ► and says, yeah, that's fine, that doesn't mean, you know,

01:36:43 ◼   ► There's been a lot of cases where one lawyer saying it's okay doesn't mean that somebody

01:36:48 ◼   ► can do it.

01:36:49 ◼   ► But I haven't seen anything that anybody's looking into it.

01:36:51 ◼   ► I saw just idle speculation that, you know.

01:36:56 ◼   ► What's the gist of the rule?

01:36:57 ◼   ► The gist of the rule is, it's just that, yeah, I don't know.

01:37:01 ◼   ► I don't know the gist of the rule.

01:37:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know either.

01:37:03 ◼   ► Something about giving information, any information that you give that would be of interest to

01:37:10 ◼   ► some investors, you have to give to all of them.

01:37:13 ◼   ► Right.

01:37:14 ◼   ► So that there's certain--

01:37:15 ◼   ► That sounds right.

01:37:16 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

01:37:17 ◼   ► Right.

01:37:17 ◼   ► So obviously, the worst example would

01:37:21 ◼   ► be if Tim Cook just called Jim Cramer up on the phone.

01:37:25 ◼   ► Is it just between me and you?

01:37:27 ◼   ► Or, well--

01:37:28 ◼   ► Well, yeah, OK, right.

01:37:29 ◼   ► Right.