The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Feel like we got to talk about the thing which thing my thing how was your with your eyeball? Yeah

00:00:05 ◼   ► I'm game

00:00:08 ◼   ► How was your week

00:00:10 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't think I've talked to you about it

00:00:16 ◼   ► We haven't we haven't had a working refrigerator in five weeks Amy mentioned that to me

00:00:20 ◼   ► yeah, it's a hell of a thing and that you're it's like you've got like

00:00:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean obviously you could for five within the last five weeks

00:00:29 ◼   ► You could have just run out and bought a new refrigerator, but you're in you're in some kind of a spat with your refrigerator

00:00:34 ◼   ► Well, no, no, like it's not even just on principle. It's first of all getting a fridge in here requires a crane

00:00:41 ◼   ► So that's a whole thing

00:00:45 ◼   ► So we were trying to get it fixed because instead of needing to hire a crane to bring a new fridge in and take the old

00:00:50 ◼   ► Why would you need a crane? Is this like a step situation a staircase situation? Yeah staircase

00:00:56 ◼   ► They're too narrow and and modern refrigerators are in size of a car exactly. Okay, so it's a whole thing and finally

00:01:04 ◼   ► They were trying to fix it and I was like fine fix it. I don't care and finally they said okay, we can't fix it

00:01:09 ◼   ► Here's two grand and I said great

00:01:12 ◼   ► I'll buy a new fridge and then I found out that I needed to get it repair need to get it craned in rather and

00:01:17 ◼   ► So the two grand doesn't even cover it

00:01:20 ◼   ► It's it's it hasn't been good. So what do you what are you doing with your perishables?

00:01:26 ◼   ► I mean it is on the other hand you guys are in the midst of record cold

00:01:29 ◼   ► So I mean like you could you could keep like frozen stuff outside, right?

00:01:33 ◼   ► Right, but the temperature fluctuates too much such that like, you know

00:01:37 ◼   ► If you got your if you got something that only you only needs to be refrigerated. It's no good

00:01:41 ◼   ► Yeah, it's no good too cold. And then some days it gets warm enough that anything you have out there. It's frozen is no good

00:01:46 ◼   ► I got a little mini fridge. That's that's all I've got right now. Did you buy that?

00:01:49 ◼   ► that especially just for this no fortunately I guess it was a wine cooler

00:01:55 ◼   ► it's it's but it gets down when you crank it like as cold as it goes I'm

00:01:59 ◼   ► looking at it right now when it get when you crank it down as low as it goes it's

00:02:02 ◼   ► it's cold enough to keep some milk and what the hell's do I have in there I got

00:02:07 ◼   ► some pasta sauce and some butter I'm living like a savage John what about ice

00:02:14 ◼   ► that's outside I can just grab a handful right now you have like ice cubes or do

00:02:19 ◼   ► you just taking like snow or something like that?

00:02:21 ◼   ► - I have not been using ice.

00:02:23 ◼   ► I've been drinking my drinks straight up.

00:02:26 ◼   ► - So how much snow do you have outside still?

00:02:29 ◼   ► Is it come down at all?

00:02:31 ◼   ► I mean, is it like up over your ears?

00:02:34 ◼   ► - We crossed 32 degrees.

00:02:36 ◼   ► It was above freezing today for the first time in,

00:02:38 ◼   ► I think the second time in like a month.

00:02:40 ◼   ► So we lost a little bit today, that was good.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Like depth wise, if I look outside,

00:02:45 ◼   ► a small child would still be buried.

00:02:48 ◼   ► We got a we got a good couple two three four feet

00:02:51 ◼   ► It's crazy

00:02:54 ◼   ► Which also doesn't help when you need to get a fridge in and it's you know, like I'm saying this whole thing

00:02:59 ◼   ► It's not like I'm I'm just saying no I refuse to buy a new fridge. I'm trying to buy a new fridge

00:03:03 ◼   ► It's still a whole headache

00:03:06 ◼   ► It's just one of those things you just never really anticipate having to do without

00:03:12 ◼   ► No, exactly. I've never and I've never had to buy one either. I've never bought appliances before for example

00:03:18 ◼   ► - I can imagine if your toilet stopped working.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Like it could happen, right?

00:03:22 ◼   ► Especially, you know, I think it's a lot more likely

00:03:26 ◼   ► that let's say if you live in a small apartment

00:03:28 ◼   ► with only one toilet, that it could break.

00:03:31 ◼   ► And then, you know, obviously you would accelerate,

00:03:34 ◼   ► you know, you'd call your plumber

00:03:35 ◼   ► and explain the situation

00:03:36 ◼   ► and hopefully get an expedited service.

00:03:38 ◼   ► But in the meantime, I feel like it would never stop.

00:03:42 ◼   ► You just, every 15 minutes you'd forget

00:03:44 ◼   ► and you'd go to pee or whatever.

00:03:45 ◼   ► - You'd just go and use the toilet again?

00:03:47 ◼   ► Well, not that you would actually use it.

00:03:48 ◼   ► I'm sure that by the time you look at the broken toilet,

00:03:51 ◼   ► you'd realize, ah, crap.

00:03:52 ◼   ► But it's like, what would you do?

00:03:55 ◼   ► I mean, I guess you'd pee in a jar or something.

00:03:57 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:03:58 ◼   ► - I guess, I don't know.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Hopefully that doesn't come up.

00:04:00 ◼   ► We got a couple bathrooms.

00:04:01 ◼   ► So that one, I should be good on that one.

00:04:03 ◼   ► But only got one fridge.

00:04:05 ◼   ► - Right, but it's the same.

00:04:06 ◼   ► You just take modern, these modern luxuries for granted.

00:04:10 ◼   ► We don't even think of them as luxuries, but they are.

00:04:13 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, well, it's funny.

00:04:14 ◼   ► I was talking to my grandmother.

00:04:16 ◼   ► She's 90 years old and she used to have an ice box like a literal ice box

00:04:19 ◼   ► Where they would put a piece of ice in there to keep things cold

00:04:23 ◼   ► right, it's just like a big steel box and then a guy would come once a week with like a

00:04:28 ◼   ► Chunk of like 20 pound block of ice. Yeah, like a microwave oven sized block of ice, right and drop it in there

00:04:35 ◼   ► and then that would yeah, you'd keep your

00:04:37 ◼   ► Keep your perishables in there. Well, the thing she told me is that you had to drain it all the time

00:04:41 ◼   ► We're obviously ice melt. That's that's a huge pain in the ass. You're draining your fridge once a day

00:04:45 ◼   ► Right. It's crazy. But we take it for granted.

00:04:50 ◼   ► I have a new appreciation for the goddamn refrigerator.

00:04:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:54 ◼   ► Eat now.

00:04:55 ◼   ► I'll trade you problems.

00:04:57 ◼   ► I don't know. Yeah.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Oh, I would trade you in a heartbeat. You could have my toilet and my refrigerator.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Well, do I have to start from scratch or do I start from where you are now?

00:05:08 ◼   ► I just start from where I am now.

00:05:10 ◼   ► And you start from where I am? Because I feel like I'm near in the end.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Oh, you could I'll go back to the beginning of years all the way. I don't know

00:05:19 ◼   ► I don't know. I had I had a lot of 8 a.m

00:05:21 ◼   ► Wake-up calls for this John the service people try and come at 8 a.m. You wouldn't like that. I

00:05:26 ◼   ► You know I had

00:05:29 ◼   ► I had 8 a.m. Follow-up with my surgeon. All right. All right. So what's the difference? So here's the thing

00:05:35 ◼   ► I got to talk about it. So because it's gonna come out within the next week because I'm missing the Apple event

00:05:40 ◼   ► so a week ago I

00:05:43 ◼   ► Suffered a detached retina in my left eye, which is not good

00:05:47 ◼   ► This that's like a you can't see type of situation they're supposed to say to stay attached. All right, so that was

00:05:55 ◼   ► Tuesday

00:05:57 ◼   ► Wednesday one day later. I had surgery at the Wills Eye Hospital right here in Philadelphia

00:06:03 ◼   ► And ours on Yelp five stars

00:06:08 ◼   ► They do advertise themselves as the world's finest eye hospital. So I've got that going for me

00:06:14 ◼   ► But the

00:06:18 ◼   ► This is not a quick recovery. This is a long slow recovery and in the procedure that I had involves a

00:06:25 ◼   ► gas bubble

00:06:28 ◼   ► injected in the back of my eye that that

00:06:30 ◼   ► Holds the repaired retina in place

00:06:34 ◼   ► So like right in front of the guy went in he repaired my retina then

00:06:39 ◼   ► At the very end of this procedure. They put a gas bubble back there and that's crazy, right?

00:06:45 ◼   ► I mean it told me this it's it's when they told me I thought they were making it up

00:06:50 ◼   ► It's like a little guy is pushing the retina all the time though, right?

00:06:55 ◼   ► I a little bubble a little bubble but it's like it's like you got a little dude in there just keeping everything in place

00:07:00 ◼   ► place. Yeah, keeping it in place. So it is, I was very confused at first. I thought it was that they

00:07:06 ◼   ► were saying that it was like a sack or like a balloon filled with gas or something. And then I

00:07:11 ◼   ► thought, oh, this sucks. Because then, you know, obviously, at some point, I'm gonna have to go

00:07:15 ◼   ► back and they're gonna have to take this thing out. But no, it's just a gas bubble. They just

00:07:18 ◼   ► inject the gas and my eye will naturally absorb it over the course of six to 10 weeks and it will

00:07:26 ◼   ► It'll shrink in my field of vision.

00:07:30 ◼   ► But anyway, long story short, one of the results of this is that while I have this gas bubble

00:07:38 ◼   ► in my eye, I cannot step foot on an airplane, or at least I can't step foot in an airplane

00:07:42 ◼   ► that is up in the air.

00:07:43 ◼   ► And you're probably not supposed to climb mountains.

00:07:46 ◼   ► No, well, that's recommended against altitude changes.

00:07:51 ◼   ► So the way it was explained to me is absolutely, positively, no airplanes.

00:07:57 ◼   ► If you can avoid it, don't go to the Poconos or anything like that.

00:08:01 ◼   ► Okay.

00:08:02 ◼   ► What about Denver or like...

00:08:03 ◼   ► Well, I would presume if the Poconos are out, Denver would...

00:08:08 ◼   ► Denver's definitely out.

00:08:09 ◼   ► Denver's definitely out.

00:08:10 ◼   ► And, you know, how would I get to Denver?

00:08:13 ◼   ► You know, I'd have to...

00:08:14 ◼   ► It would be a long drive.

00:08:15 ◼   ► Long drive, yeah.

00:08:17 ◼   ► So I will miss the Apple event, which is...

00:08:20 ◼   ► recording right now on Monday March 2nd seven days from now I will not be able

00:08:24 ◼   ► to to make that I think a live stream yeah I hope so I don't know it'll be

00:08:29 ◼   ► weird it's sort of like the old days I mean it's you know at least for the

00:08:32 ◼   ► first half of the run at daring fireball I never went to the press events so I

00:08:37 ◼   ► got a back out unfortunately of the all conference too which is at the end of

00:08:42 ◼   ► the month I said you should just cruise over to Ireland yeah that would be the

00:08:46 ◼   ► option. So that conference is in Ireland. I guess my only, I think that would be my only option

00:08:52 ◼   ► would be to cruise there. I looked it up. I think it's like an eight day each way cruise,

00:08:57 ◼   ► which you would have to do. And I don't know that they run them until like April or May,

00:09:03 ◼   ► because it's pretty cold out there right now. Right, because it wouldn't even be enough to get

00:09:08 ◼   ► to England. Because, you know, you think, you know, like when you're booking flights to Ireland

00:09:13 ◼   ► or something like that. If it goes through Heathrow or something, you don't really give

00:09:16 ◼   ► it any second thought because it's like a 15-minute flight, you know what I mean?

00:09:21 ◼   ► But if you can't get in an airplane, you know, like the difference between England and Ireland

00:09:27 ◼   ► is actually pretty significant. It's decent, yeah. Like, it never really matters when you're

00:09:34 ◼   ► flying everywhere that Ireland is actually, you know, an island. But once you can't get in a plane,

00:09:40 ◼   ► Yes, it matters.

00:09:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:09:42 ◼   ► - Well, so you've had to bail on,

00:09:45 ◼   ► you're bailing on the watch event, unfortunately.

00:09:47 ◼   ► You're bailing on this conference.

00:09:49 ◼   ► Are you just in a bed?

00:09:51 ◼   ► What do you have to do?

00:09:52 ◼   ► Do they let you walk around?

00:09:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I am allowed to, you know,

00:09:55 ◼   ► obviously, I mean, there's been no disruption

00:09:57 ◼   ► on Daring Fireball.

00:10:01 ◼   ► I was posting, it was so, it's just weird.

00:10:05 ◼   ► The way modern anesthesia works is just crazy.

00:10:07 ◼   ► It's like at 11 o'clock, I was high as a kite.

00:10:12 ◼   ► They didn't fully put me under, which is terrifying.

00:10:15 ◼   ► And I know, like for anybody who's out there,

00:10:17 ◼   ► it sounds absolutely, positively terrifying

00:10:19 ◼   ► that you're awake for some kind of operation on your eye.

00:10:22 ◼   ► But you're-- - You're poking at your eye.

00:10:24 ◼   ► - You're so far out of it that it really,

00:10:28 ◼   ► I actually found it to be rather enjoyable.

00:10:30 ◼   ► And modern anesthesia, and I've had unfortunately

00:10:36 ◼   ► more of it than I would like lately.

00:10:38 ◼   ► They've really gotten good at making,

00:10:42 ◼   ► not just putting you under,

00:10:43 ◼   ► not just making sure that you're out or whatever,

00:10:45 ◼   ► but actually making your mood euphoric.

00:10:50 ◼   ► These guys-- - During or after?

00:10:52 ◼   ► - During. - Okay.

00:10:54 ◼   ► - Like, when you're in the operating room,

00:10:55 ◼   ► at least with the fine anesthesiologists

00:10:59 ◼   ► at Will's Eye Hospital, you feel good.

00:11:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:04 ◼   ► - So now you're kind of wishing

00:11:05 ◼   ► that they had to go back in there

00:11:06 ◼   ► and pull this little sack out.

00:11:08 ◼   ► - Well, no, I wouldn't go that far.

00:11:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:11 ◼   ► - Wasn't that good.

00:11:12 ◼   ► - No, it wasn't that good.

00:11:14 ◼   ► But there were moments when I was, you know,

00:11:17 ◼   ► sort of kind of there, like, aware of my,

00:11:20 ◼   ► what was going on, and I have to say,

00:11:23 ◼   ► it was sort of a euphoria.

00:11:24 ◼   ► It was a very good feeling.

00:11:26 ◼   ► But the procedure was like an hour long or so,

00:11:29 ◼   ► you know, so 11 to 12, I'm in there, they're operating,

00:11:32 ◼   ► I'm out of it for the most part, but not unconscious,

00:11:35 ◼   ► but, and there were moments where I could hear

00:11:38 ◼   ► my surgeon talking, and it was bizarre,

00:11:43 ◼   ► but it's, you're so high, so crazy, crazy high.

00:11:48 ◼   ► - But do you remember anything he said?

00:11:52 ◼   ► Like, should he be careful about what he's saying

00:11:55 ◼   ► when he's working on you?

00:11:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, obviously.

00:11:57 ◼   ► At one point he was talking about some kind of fold,

00:12:00 ◼   ► and it was very, very clear to me,

00:12:01 ◼   ► and it was very reassuring.

00:12:03 ◼   ► It was like an air of competence and precision that was inspiring.

00:12:11 ◼   ► But it was, and he was clearly talking to his fellow, like, you know, I don't know if

00:12:19 ◼   ► they call him resident anymore.

00:12:20 ◼   ► They call them fellows.

00:12:21 ◼   ► But in other words, a young doctor who was like his Padawan, effectively, his apprentice.

00:12:26 ◼   ► It was clear that he wasn't talking to anybody else in the ER.

00:12:29 ◼   ► He certainly wasn't talking to me.

00:12:30 ◼   ► He was talking to his fellow, and it was something about a fold, like in the corner or something,

00:12:39 ◼   ► something, something fold, and that you don't want to do it like that, you want to do it

00:12:43 ◼   ► like this, and it was, you know, super--

00:12:45 ◼   ► - Did they give you like a little eye tuck?

00:12:47 ◼   ► Did they do a little work while you were under?

00:12:49 ◼   ► - No, no, the retina, it was definitely about the retina.

00:12:52 ◼   ► It was some part of the torn portion of the retina, I don't know, that it was folded under.

00:12:58 ◼   ► I don't know, something about a fold.

00:13:00 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe they throw in a little plastic surgery

00:13:02 ◼   ► while you're under.

00:13:03 ◼   ► - Well, I don't know, if so,

00:13:05 ◼   ► that didn't really help me much.

00:13:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:09 ◼   ► But anyway, that's what it is. - So you're out,

00:13:10 ◼   ► and then you're back to work?

00:13:13 ◼   ► - By three o'clock, I'm, you know,

00:13:15 ◼   ► like noon, 11 to noon is like my surgery.

00:13:19 ◼   ► 1230 or so is when I remember seeing Amy

00:13:24 ◼   ► in the recovery room.

00:13:28 ◼   ► So apparently I was still out for maybe a half hour

00:13:31 ◼   ► after the procedure was over.

00:13:32 ◼   ► And I was definitely unsteady, not right.

00:13:37 ◼   ► It's a good thing that they make you have like a,

00:13:41 ◼   ► they don't sign you out on your own.

00:13:42 ◼   ► Like Amy had to sign me out.

00:13:44 ◼   ► But we literally, I mean, obviously this whole situation

00:13:49 ◼   ► is a very unfortunate run of bad luck.

00:13:52 ◼   ► But there's all sorts of,

00:13:54 ◼   ► it's mixed in with little bits of good luck.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Like just by pure coincidence,

00:14:01 ◼   ► we certainly didn't pick our house because of it,

00:14:03 ◼   ► but we literally live four blocks away

00:14:05 ◼   ► from Wills Eye Hospital.

00:14:06 ◼   ► It's less than a five minute walk.

00:14:09 ◼   ► We live incredibly close, so we just walked home.

00:14:11 ◼   ► - And did you walk there and back?

00:14:14 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:14:15 ◼   ► - All right.

00:14:16 ◼   ► - I mean, we live, it's so close that it wouldn't even--

00:14:19 ◼   ► - But there's no better way to do it, right?

00:14:21 ◼   ► - You know, if it were raining or something,

00:14:23 ◼   ► I guess we could take a cab, you know,

00:14:25 ◼   ► but it would make zero sense to drive.

00:14:27 ◼   ► I mean, there's, I mean, I think some people, you know, they do have a parking garage, so

00:14:32 ◼   ► it would be closer to our house.

00:14:33 ◼   ► But it's, I think by the time you waited for the elevator in the parking garage and it's

00:14:38 ◼   ► all said and done, it probably takes about the same amount of time to walk in the front

00:14:40 ◼   ► door as it does from our house.

00:14:43 ◼   ► So we walked home and by like three o'clock I was writing and reading, working during

00:14:48 ◼   ► Fireball.

00:14:49 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:14:50 ◼   ► But now what day was this?

00:14:51 ◼   ► Because maybe we should look at this and—

00:14:52 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

00:14:53 ◼   ► That was Wednesday.

00:14:55 ◼   ► So it would have been Wednesday—

00:14:56 ◼   ► It's the 25th I think yeah, I

00:14:59 ◼   ► Love to check and see if it if any of it makes sense

00:15:03 ◼   ► That didn't actually occur to me

00:15:06 ◼   ► Maybe I maybe I shouldn't have done

00:15:09 ◼   ► Like were there any odd posts on Wednesday? I don't know

00:15:13 ◼   ► Let me see here. I'm scrolling down

00:15:16 ◼   ► Uh, I don't think so. It looks pretty normal

00:15:22 ◼   ► All right, they do give you a piece of paper

00:15:25 ◼   ► I think I sent this to you because I knew that you would enjoy it. Yeah, here's Wednesday

00:15:29 ◼   ► I don't think I was very busy here got far had manju

00:15:32 ◼   ► Google plans new headquarters

00:15:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it was you know was obviously I was not a prolific but

00:15:42 ◼   ► You know, I could read and write

00:15:45 ◼   ► What were we saying or I was a

00:15:52 ◼   ► I was just talking about how you've got a you know, you got a bail on this stuff, but I'm sharp as a tack that

00:15:57 ◼   ► There's no long-term

00:15:59 ◼   ► Reprecussions of the sedatives that they had me, you know, I mean, it's the basics just though

00:16:03 ◼   ► But when they first told me that though, I I you know, you hear what you want to hear and my thought is well

00:16:08 ◼   ► You know, I'm not supposed to fly but I guess I can still do it. But no, it's not like

00:16:12 ◼   ► You know, maybe you shouldn't fly. This is you you're go blind if you fly. Yeah, I hear gas bubble in the eye

00:16:19 ◼   ► I think probably probably don't want to change my my elevation too much. Yeah

00:16:24 ◼   ► Well, you know like when you take a sealed bag of chips on a plane like you buy it at the airport

00:16:28 ◼   ► You buy a bag of chips and you take them on the plane and then when you open it up mid-flight

00:16:32 ◼   ► It's puffed out like a balloon because you can change an air pressure. You don't want that in your eyeball

00:16:36 ◼   ► No, that would I mean, I think that's exactly what would happen. I'm not sure that my eye would burst but

00:16:41 ◼   ► It's it doesn't seem like it's half the question. I

00:16:47 ◼   ► I wouldn't risk it. It would be like that. What was that stupid commercial where the guy was like,

00:16:51 ◼   ► uh, the guy's getting on an airplane and it's like his back hurts and he's like,

00:16:56 ◼   ► Oh, it's like a Tylenol or something commercial. Yeah.

00:16:58 ◼   ► Yeah. No, but she's like, we have aspirin and he goes, aspirin? I'm not having a heart attack.

00:17:04 ◼   ► I'm not having a heart attack. My back hurts.

00:17:06 ◼   ► I think that guy was a real racist. Don't you?

00:17:10 ◼   ► Why? Why a racist?

00:17:15 ◼   ► because it was clearly an international flight and she was uh i think i think it was a japanese

00:17:19 ◼   ► airline and she's he's talking to her as if like she doesn't understand english

00:17:23 ◼   ► like no no i'm not having a heart attack it's my back she's like yeah dumbass here's some

00:17:30 ◼   ► aspirin i didn't read it to that i just got that like at bear they've had a meeting where they've

00:17:36 ◼   ► been so successful with this you know the way that the aspirin is now prescriber you know like

00:17:42 ◼   ► if people over a certain age are supposed to pop one aspirin a day and it just somehow,

00:17:46 ◼   ► reasons they don't understand, don't really know, but they just, clinical studies show,

00:17:51 ◼   ► if you pop an aspirin a day, there's less chance of heart attack.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Dr. Zaino Like blood thinning or something.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Dr.

00:18:10 ◼   ► widely used like, you know, in the 1800s or at the end of the 1800s. And, you know, it was like in

00:18:16 ◼   ► the snake oil era, and it was something that actually did work. You know, it does actually

00:18:19 ◼   ► decrease pain. But I, you know, you just know the meeting that they had where they're like,

00:18:27 ◼   ► "Well, now everybody's forgotten that you can take aspirin for pain relief."

00:18:30 ◼   ► - Nobody's forgotten. No one thinks it's only for a heart attack.

00:18:35 ◼   ► - Well, can you imagine, can you imagine like hitting that little thing to call the flight

00:18:39 ◼   ► attendant ding and they come by I'm holding my eye and I'm like do you have

00:18:43 ◼   ► any aspirin my my eyeball just burst oh is it in your hand or is it what are you

00:18:52 ◼   ► picturing I'm picturing just like a water balloon that pops like it's just

00:18:56 ◼   ► gone it's just gone and I've just and maybe a couple wet naps to clean up

00:19:01 ◼   ► around yeah also can you imagine like if you know if you somebody was seating

00:19:08 ◼   ► next to me and having to apologize because your your eyeball just burst all over them.

00:19:14 ◼   ► Well, you just hold the air sick bag up to your face. Yeah, I guess.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Well, anyway, I'm not gonna find out. Good plan. Good plan.

00:19:25 ◼   ► All right. 1853 is when we discovered aspirin. I thought it was older than that.

00:19:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I knew it wasn't ancient, but I knew it was like, you know, like a Wild West era,

00:19:35 ◼   ► you know discovery and it just it's crazy because I don't I it might be the

00:19:40 ◼   ► one and only medical treatment from 1853 that it's still in here still in here

00:19:45 ◼   ► let me take a break and thank our first sponsor why not since we're talking

00:19:54 ◼   ► about eyeballs why not talk about our good friends at Warby Parker yes is it

00:19:59 ◼   ► - Really? - It is.

00:20:00 ◼   ► - Oh, I was so hopeful.

00:20:02 ◼   ► - Oh, it's a jackpot.

00:20:03 ◼   ► - Go on, I'm sorry.

00:20:07 ◼   ► - Our next sponsor, by the way, is Bayer.

00:20:09 ◼   ► No, it's our good friends at Warby Parker.

00:20:12 ◼   ► You guys know Warby Parker.

00:20:14 ◼   ► This is where you go online and you buy eyeglasses

00:20:17 ◼   ► and they've got a whole bunch of cool styles to pick from.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Really great prices.

00:20:23 ◼   ► The whole idea is that the guys who founded the company,

00:20:25 ◼   ► they're like, how come eyeglasses cost like $800

00:20:27 ◼   ► when you go to a place to get good looking eyeglasses.

00:20:30 ◼   ► Well, guess what?

00:20:31 ◼   ► They don't have to.

00:20:32 ◼   ► Warby Parker's progressives start at 295, including frames.

00:20:38 ◼   ► It's for the older people out there

00:20:41 ◼   ► who've got your distance prescription at the top

00:20:43 ◼   ► and a transition to a reading lens near the bottom.

00:20:47 ◼   ► 295, that's unheard of.

00:20:48 ◼   ► It's way less than what you'd pay at retail places.

00:20:52 ◼   ► They use what's called a digital freeform lens,

00:20:57 ◼   ► which is the most advanced progressive technology.

00:21:00 ◼   ► It's applied digitally with a computer,

00:21:02 ◼   ► so the design is far more precise

00:21:04 ◼   ► than traditional models of progressives.

00:21:06 ◼   ► It also provides a larger field of vision.

00:21:10 ◼   ► So it looks better, you don't see the line between the lenses

00:21:13 ◼   ► like you used to in the old days.

00:21:16 ◼   ► And it gives you a better, bigger field of vision.

00:21:19 ◼   ► The other big thing that Warby Parker does, huge,

00:21:22 ◼   ► this is absolutely huge.

00:21:23 ◼   ► Every time you buy a pair of prescription glasses

00:21:26 ◼   ► from Warby Parker, they send a pair to someone in need around the world. Millions and millions

00:21:32 ◼   ► of people around the world who don't have access to corrective vision. Huge problem.

00:21:42 ◼   ► Just imagine if everything went around, you couldn't see anything sharply. Terrible. Well,

00:21:47 ◼   ► guess what? Warby Parker is helping to solve that because every time you buy glasses from

00:21:52 ◼   ► and then they send one to someone in need.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Here's the crazy thing.

00:21:56 ◼   ► I know, when I first heard about Warby Parker years ago,

00:21:59 ◼   ► I thought, well, this sounds great,

00:22:00 ◼   ► but how in the world are you gonna buy glasses,

00:22:02 ◼   ► something that you're gonna wear like every single day,

00:22:05 ◼   ► something that goes right on your face,

00:22:07 ◼   ► without trying them on first?

00:22:09 ◼   ► Like, even if you look at the webpage and you say,

00:22:12 ◼   ► well, those look cool,

00:22:13 ◼   ► but how do you know they're gonna look on you?

00:22:14 ◼   ► I mean, it's crazy.

00:22:15 ◼   ► Like, every time I've ever bought glasses,

00:22:18 ◼   ► even right there in the store, you look at some,

00:22:19 ◼   ► you say, well, those look cool, then you try them on,

00:22:21 ◼   ► you're like wow I look like an idiot in these they have a great try at home

00:22:26 ◼   ► program you pick like I think it's up to five you get five five picks find five

00:22:31 ◼   ► that you think you like pick pick a variety they send them to you without

00:22:35 ◼   ► the lenses you know the corrective lenses at first send them to you at home

00:22:40 ◼   ► you try them take a couple days ask your friends ask your you know friends and

00:22:46 ◼   ► family which ones they like take a look in the mirror and then you pick the one

00:22:51 ◼   ► you like the best, send the whole thing back to them. It's all pre-shipping. It's all pre-labeled.

00:22:56 ◼   ► You don't have to do any kind of work other than just hand it off back to the UPS guy.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Boom, a couple days later, your glasses, brand new glasses, come with the actual lenses.

00:23:07 ◼   ► Could not be easier. I've lost count of how many Warby Parker glasses we've got laying

00:23:13 ◼   ► around the house now between me and Amy. Great, great stuff. They do sunglasses, all sorts

00:23:20 ◼   ► styles to pick from really could not be easier. It's a great thing. Once you start buying glasses

00:23:27 ◼   ► from Warby Parker, you're not going to go back. Where do you go to find out more? Go to their

00:23:31 ◼   ► website warbyparker.com/thetalkshow and then you'll know that you came from here. And use that code.

00:23:43 ◼   ► I think they send you, I think it's expedited shipping. They'll give you free three-day shipping

00:23:50 ◼   ► on your glasses if you use that that code warbyparker.com/thetalkshow.

00:23:56 ◼   ► I was hoping I went there I was hoping maybe I could get a designer eye patch.

00:24:01 ◼   ► Oh I was just looking for monocles they do not sell monocles currently.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Yeah see that's that could be a problem for me if this doesn't I mean a prognosis is good I mean

00:24:11 ◼   ► it's and everybody you know if anybody I hope I made that clear that you know after this procedure

00:24:16 ◼   ► I had last week that I went back the next day and they took a look at I said it looks

00:24:20 ◼   ► Quote-unquote great for day one. So, you know, I have a good prognosis here. I don't want anybody

00:24:25 ◼   ► I'm only I hate even going public with it

00:24:28 ◼   ► but I have to because I feel like I have to explain why I'm not at the Apple event and

00:24:31 ◼   ► I absolutely have to explain why I won't be speaking as scheduled at all. I

00:24:36 ◼   ► Feel like if you just drop out of a speaking event people are gonna think you're a flake, you know

00:24:41 ◼   ► And I want people you got it

00:24:42 ◼   ► You got a pretty good excuse that you'd prefer to keep both your eyeballs

00:24:45 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:24:48 ◼   ► I don't know that there's anybody who's that dedicated that they would voluntarily go

00:24:52 ◼   ► blind in one eye to make a—

00:24:53 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:24:55 ◼   ► That'd be a really good conference. I've heard good things about Ull, but—

00:24:58 ◼   ► Oh my god. Can you imagine how uncomfortable that would be if that was the subject of my talk?

00:25:02 ◼   ► I hope you like this talk!

00:25:03 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:25:06 ◼   ► I went blind to be here.

00:25:08 ◼   ► You get quite a round of applause at the end.

00:25:11 ◼   ► No, I think people would feel terrible. I think that you—everybody—I mean,

00:25:15 ◼   ► I mean, 'cause it would be such a sign

00:25:17 ◼   ► that you're mentally ill.

00:25:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:25:21 ◼   ► - All right, maybe.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - Right, like watching somebody destroy themself.

00:25:25 ◼   ► It'd be terrible.

00:25:26 ◼   ► - All right, I think you made the right call.

00:25:30 ◼   ► - You know, I mentioned, but I should go back.

00:25:32 ◼   ► I'm the worst, but with the Warby Parker,

00:25:34 ◼   ► you know, the 295 is for the progressives.

00:25:38 ◼   ► They're regular ones.

00:25:39 ◼   ► If you don't need progressives, by the way,

00:25:40 ◼   ► I just feel obligated to go back and mention this.

00:25:42 ◼   ► They start at just 95 bucks, including the lenses.

00:25:45 ◼   ► So I don't wanna leave the impression

00:25:47 ◼   ► that you gotta pay 300 bucks for glasses.

00:25:50 ◼   ► 100 bucks gets you a high quality pair of glasses.

00:25:53 ◼   ► And anyway, what else?

00:25:58 ◼   ► What's going on?

00:25:59 ◼   ► - I think there's some kind of a watch coming out.

00:26:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:02 ◼   ► What about the, before we talk about that,

00:26:05 ◼   ► we could talk about the Pebble Color.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Was it, is that what it's called?

00:26:08 ◼   ► Is it called Pebble or--

00:26:09 ◼   ► - Pebble Time, right?

00:26:10 ◼   ► - Pebble Time.

00:26:10 ◼   ► Because you know, it's a watch so well and you I know I have a pebble

00:26:17 ◼   ► Which I never really got into wearing. I don't think I ever wore it for more than like a day

00:26:22 ◼   ► But I know that you you have a original first gen pebble and you've worn it regularly I did I

00:26:30 ◼   ► Stopped wearing it. I think I wore it for two or three months and

00:26:34 ◼   ► You know, I bought it

00:26:36 ◼   ► But I think for the same reason you did just out of curiosity because when the Kickstarter

00:26:40 ◼   ► was announced, geez, like a year and a half, two years ago even, it was a curiosity and

00:26:46 ◼   ► nothing else like it existed.

00:26:49 ◼   ► And it was, I think, what was it, about a hundred bucks or so?

00:26:52 ◼   ► Do you remember?

00:26:53 ◼   ► I think it was a hundred bucks.

00:26:55 ◼   ► It wasn't outlandish.

00:26:56 ◼   ► I mean it wasn't much more than that.

00:26:58 ◼   ► It might have even been a little less than that.

00:27:00 ◼   ► And I said, you know, this seems interesting and I think I enjoyed it a little more than

00:27:04 ◼   ► you did but it's to me it's it sort of proved the concept of having a watch

00:27:11 ◼   ► connected to your phone because I think even now and I think even after the

00:27:16 ◼   ► Apple watch comes out people are gonna say you know what the heck do you need

00:27:18 ◼   ► that for you've got your phone but when you're driving it's great you can glance

00:27:23 ◼   ► at your wrist when you're in a meeting when you're you know talking to somebody

00:27:27 ◼   ► else it's a whole lot easier to just look at your wrist real quick then pull

00:27:30 ◼   ► out your phone and you know figure out what's going on there and I did find

00:27:34 ◼   ► that it was you know not the most valuable thing in the world but it was

00:27:37 ◼   ► certainly a useful accessory to the phone in a way that without trying it I

00:27:43 ◼   ► might not have believed my big one of my big complaints with it my two big

00:27:47 ◼   ► complaints I guess were that one I didn't feel like I was getting

00:27:51 ◼   ► fine-grained enough control over which notifications like I pebble specifically

00:27:57 ◼   ► with pebble specifically it was more or less all notifications anything you know

00:28:01 ◼   ► you if you pair it with your phone through your iPhone then anything that

00:28:05 ◼   ► would be a notification on your phone is a notification on your pebble and I tend

00:28:10 ◼   ► to have my phone set up to not I don't get a lot of notifications period I you

00:28:14 ◼   ► know most things I have turned off yeah same I only get email notifications for

00:28:19 ◼   ► my VIPs etc which is like I think I was just talking to someone I know if it was

00:28:25 ◼   ► on the show or where but it it's like one of the best features apples come up

00:28:28 ◼   ► with like a little feature that you take for granted but but right at the barely

00:28:32 ◼   ► even notice but then you know if you stop and think hey I'm only getting

00:28:36 ◼   ► emails from you know my mom and the wife and whoever it's it's very nice yeah but

00:28:40 ◼   ► there's so many little things that really just little notifications that I

00:28:47 ◼   ► do want on my phone but I don't want on my watch and the fact that I couldn't

00:28:50 ◼   ► turn them off made it feel like my watch was annoying me now was that I think

00:28:54 ◼   ► that's how it was initially I think eventually I you know I stopped using it

00:28:58 ◼   ► well. But I think eventually you did get a little more fine grained control as far as

00:29:01 ◼   ► some things that would notify on the phone only and not on the not on the watch.

00:29:05 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe. And this, you know, I might be speaking from old experience, you know,

00:29:09 ◼   ► but maybe it's, but it just, but I also did not, I also found it that the physical sensation of

00:29:14 ◼   ► the vibration to be unpleasant, even for things I wanted the pebble to notify me about, like a text

00:29:20 ◼   ► message, right? Like a text message is one that I would think anybody wants, you know, my wife

00:29:24 ◼   ► Texts me. I want that. I do want it on my watch if if my watch is gonna show me anything

00:29:29 ◼   ► That's something I would want

00:29:30 ◼   ► I found the vibration to be physically unpleasant not like in a big way

00:29:35 ◼   ► But in it never once made me happy that my watch buzz

00:29:39 ◼   ► Well, so you've you've tried on an Apple watch right and and you and they showed you the the Taptic sensor, right?

00:29:47 ◼   ► I don't have to feedback so

00:29:49 ◼   ► You can compare the two I have not yeah, it's a completely different sensation

00:29:53 ◼   ► I've said this before, but it's not the Taptic thing.

00:29:57 ◼   ► And I know that Taptic is a word that they've made up,

00:29:59 ◼   ► that it's tap plus haptic,

00:30:01 ◼   ► but it really is a kind of great name.

00:30:05 ◼   ► Like at some point once they had the thing working

00:30:08 ◼   ► and somebody said Taptic, everybody in the room,

00:30:11 ◼   ► I'm sure it was like, that's it.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Because it does feel like it's tapping you

00:30:15 ◼   ► and it's not at all like a vibration, a phone vibrator.

00:30:19 ◼   ► - It sounds weird.

00:30:22 ◼   ► It is weird, it's different, but it's not unpleasant.

00:30:25 ◼   ► It to me solves a very real problem

00:30:28 ◼   ► that at least the original Pebble definitely had,

00:30:31 ◼   ► which is that the vibrating engines that we have--

00:30:34 ◼   ► - Vibration motor, yeah.

00:30:35 ◼   ► - Right, are just not pleasant sensation.

00:30:38 ◼   ► - Well, so the thing to me about the new one,

00:30:40 ◼   ► the Pebble Time, was it looks very nice,

00:30:44 ◼   ► and it's interesting to me that it's gonna be

00:30:46 ◼   ► one of the first devices out there

00:30:48 ◼   ► using a color e-ink display,

00:30:51 ◼   ► because none of the, you know, like the Nooks and the Kindles are all still black and white

00:30:55 ◼   ► E Ink.

00:30:57 ◼   ► But it seems very much geared at Android users because they just can't get the level of,

00:31:04 ◼   ► you know, connection to the system on iOS that they want.

00:31:08 ◼   ► And I think that's sort of unfortunate because it'd be nice if there were competitors that

00:31:13 ◼   ► worked with the iPhone, but I think if they're carving out a niche in the market, it's on

00:31:18 ◼   ► the Android side.

00:31:19 ◼   ► Yeah, even though I think the original one I think probably was large. I maybe it was even iPhone first, right?

00:31:25 ◼   ► Wasn't it like that their Android software took a while?

00:31:28 ◼   ► It's definitely yeah, that sounds right. All right, I think that it that because of the enthusiasts market and the Kickstarter market

00:31:35 ◼   ► Especially from from a couple years ago when Kickstarter was you know a little bit less well-known, you know

00:31:43 ◼   ► It was definitely the iPhone I think made up a much bigger part of their market, right?

00:31:48 ◼   ► But I think it's inevitable. I think you're exactly right though there right now. It's inevitable because they need

00:31:52 ◼   ► They crave more control on the phone and the iPhone just doesn't offer it

00:31:58 ◼   ► well, and I think so I think that's it's interesting because in this space Apple's making a device and

00:32:05 ◼   ► You know Apple's answer is going to be get the Apple watch. That's the one that works best with the iPhone, but I got a

00:32:13 ◼   ► Doorbell I got a doorbell called the ring and it's a video doorbell and it connects to your phone

00:32:19 ◼   ► And it's great it rings your phone wherever you are when somebody's at the door

00:32:23 ◼   ► So if you're not at home, or you know whatever you can tell UPS guy to leave a package whatever

00:32:27 ◼   ► but the biggest issue that I have with it is that I keep my phone on silent most of the time and

00:32:32 ◼   ► on the iPhone the only thing that can override the silent switch is your alarm clock and

00:32:37 ◼   ► If I could have one other thing do it it would be this doorbell

00:32:42 ◼   ► Because I want that notification anytime that it happens and it's something where I don't think Apple's likely to ever make a doorbell

00:32:49 ◼   ► but because the system is locked down enough, it means that nobody else can make one that has that level of

00:32:55 ◼   ► Access right and you know, you see it with the watch you see it with with a bunch of things and it's I think in this

00:33:01 ◼   ► case

00:33:02 ◼   ► You know, there's an answer. It's get an Apple watch and that'll have all the

00:33:05 ◼   ► Authority that you need but in a lot of other cases, I think there's sort of missed opportunities right now

00:33:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's you know, it's an unfortunate side effect, you know of and I don't think it's purely I think plays into it

00:33:19 ◼   ► I mean, let's face it. There's a little bit of

00:33:21 ◼   ► competitive spite

00:33:24 ◼   ► So do your doorbell thing you can like if you're away you can then use an app or something to talk through the intercom

00:33:31 ◼   ► yeah, so it's it's the whole thing is it's got a little video camera and it's got a battery and

00:33:38 ◼   ► They ring the doorbell just like you ring a normal doorbell

00:33:40 ◼   ► But then it rings on your phone and you accept the call and you can see them. They can't see you but

00:33:46 ◼   ► it's you know, so the the

00:33:48 ◼   ► Their angle is a security angle that I guess a lot of breaking and entering the very first thing

00:33:54 ◼   ► They do is ring the doorbell to make sure nobody's home

00:33:56 ◼   ► Hmm and with this you can your home no matter where you are is sort of the way they pitch it

00:34:00 ◼   ► you know, it's it's not necessarily the

00:34:05 ◼   ► yeah, I'm not necessarily that interested in that aspect of it, but it is nice to have a little intercom without needing to run a

00:34:11 ◼   ► whole bunch of wires and

00:34:13 ◼   ► It's great

00:34:14 ◼   ► Except for like I said

00:34:15 ◼   ► If I've got my phone on silent or if I've got it on do not disturb and somebody

00:34:18 ◼   ► Wants to deliver a package at 8 in the morning, and I've got my phone set up to not bother me

00:34:23 ◼   ► Suddenly the doorbell doesn't ring

00:34:25 ◼   ► Which is sort of unfortunate, right?

00:34:28 ◼   ► yeah, and like the way that the alarm app can override that is is

00:34:33 ◼   ► Black magic because the it's only the built-in system

00:34:37 ◼   ► alarm, you know clock app that has the ability to go outside the you know, the

00:34:44 ◼   ► Privileges, you know, like I don't think there's I'm 99% sure

00:34:50 ◼   ► There's no way that any third-party alarm clock app can know I can do those things

00:34:54 ◼   ► I think they're all a bit a bit of a disadvantage because of that but right, you know in that case again

00:35:01 ◼   ► the built-in alarm clock app is pretty good. It's decent. But yeah, for other stuff,

00:35:06 ◼   ► there's just no way around it.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a perfect example though of the sort of thing that you just don't think about,

00:35:12 ◼   ► right? And it's in a way that Apple isn't trying to build everything, right? I mean,

00:35:18 ◼   ► they've only... That watches their first new products in five years. They're not building

00:35:23 ◼   ► thermostats and doorbells and security cameras and et cetera, et cetera. And somebody else is,

00:35:30 ◼   ► And once you sit there and think, well,

00:35:33 ◼   ► if we reinvented the doorbell, what would we do?

00:35:35 ◼   ► And you start thinking of cool things

00:35:37 ◼   ► you could do with notifications and apps and Wi-Fi.

00:35:39 ◼   ► I guess you have it on your Wi-Fi, right?

00:35:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, it's brilliant.

00:35:43 ◼   ► It's really clever, I like that.

00:35:45 ◼   ► - It is, but it's something where

00:35:48 ◼   ► I don't necessarily have that much hope

00:35:49 ◼   ► that this will change, but it's something where

00:35:51 ◼   ► I think if you get enough of these types of products

00:35:53 ◼   ► where they do need these higher privileges,

00:35:56 ◼   ► higher access to the system,

00:35:58 ◼   ► and I'm willing to give it to it,

00:35:59 ◼   ► That's really the thing is I want the app to be able to say no matter what you get to ring

00:36:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I almost feel like it's almost at this point

00:36:07 ◼   ► It's almost like it would be confused, but I could see it like I would like to give this app

00:36:11 ◼   ► Get out of do not disturb. You know privilege right and and

00:36:16 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't want to you don't want to have games asking for this

00:36:19 ◼   ► You don't want to have I don't even know most things asking for this

00:36:22 ◼   ► But I can look at this as a user and say this thing should have it and I would bet that there's you know

00:36:28 ◼   ► a half dozen types of these products that could use the levels of access that the alarm clock app have.

00:36:35 ◼   ► And, you know, like I said, I don't hold out a whole lot of hope that that'll ever happen,

00:36:39 ◼   ► but I certainly hope that these people are talking to Apple and saying, "Look, you're not going to make this,

00:36:44 ◼   ► and we're trying to make it as top quality and experience for your users as we can."

00:36:49 ◼   ► And I think on Android, there's at least, you know, I don't have enough experience with it to say they could definitely do this,

00:36:54 ◼   ► definitely do this, but there's definitely more flexibility and more access on that side

00:36:58 ◼   ► where, you know, we just don't have it on the iPhone.

00:37:02 ◼   ► With Pebble, I never really wrote about it on Daring Firewall because I always felt a

00:37:06 ◼   ► little bad. And I often complain about other people grading somebody on a curve or something,

00:37:11 ◼   ► and I don't feel it's quite that way because I like the idea of Pebble. I like that they

00:37:15 ◼   ► seem like a good company. I'm rooting for them, and I really felt bad. I couldn't get

00:37:22 ◼   ► myself to just really write about it because if I were gonna write about it

00:37:26 ◼   ► I'd have to be honest and if I were honest it would be a very negative

00:37:28 ◼   ► review and I just didn't want to do it you know I'd rather say nothing than you

00:37:35 ◼   ► know cuz you get on the podcast right exactly and I feel like that's sort of

00:37:40 ◼   ► the fun thing about having a podcast it's a little bit you know like I can

00:37:44 ◼   ► use the intonation of my voice and and it conveys it I think I think everybody

00:37:48 ◼   ► listening to this can kind of knows what I'm saying right it's it's easier to be

00:37:54 ◼   ► put some emotion into it maybe to put a better way so I bought I signed up for

00:37:59 ◼   ► the new one too even though I don't expect not to like it either but I like

00:38:04 ◼   ► them enough that I got the cheapest pebble time that I could you know I

00:38:08 ◼   ► looked at it and I thought it's so close to the Apple watch and I'm interested in

00:38:14 ◼   ► it but it doesn't seem like there's any real benefit to getting it ahead of time

00:38:18 ◼   ► If I were a consumer just a pure consumer, I would not have done bought it

00:38:22 ◼   ► I feel like for whatever I paid for it the 200 bucks or whatever it's like 179 or something. I can I can

00:38:28 ◼   ► It's a perfectly valid business expense. Yes cost of doing business for you. Absolutely

00:38:33 ◼   ► Well, the thing to me was that again it seemed very clear that the Android experience for this was going to be superior to the iOS

00:38:40 ◼   ► experience and

00:38:42 ◼   ► Because Apple is now making a watch they're not going to be inclined to make it any better for pebble

00:38:47 ◼   ► So that to me scared me off of it a little bit. I was also interested that they did another

00:38:53 ◼   ► Kickstarter on this.

00:38:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I thought that was interesting too.

00:38:55 ◼   ► Did you look at that at all?

00:38:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I thought it, well, yeah, because I bought it from their Kickstarter.

00:38:59 ◼   ► Right, but I mean just the, I think it was two or three years ago,

00:39:02 ◼   ► Kickstarter had a blog post and it said, "Kickstarter is not a store."

00:39:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:05 ◼   ► That was the headline of a blog post.

00:39:07 ◼   ► Right.

00:39:08 ◼   ► And now this product, I think it's supposed to ship in May, which is two months from now.

00:39:14 ◼   ► now. Kickstarter is a store for this product. Yeah, totally. I mean there's there's no other

00:39:21 ◼   ► way to look at this than that you're buying this and in two months you'll have it and

00:39:25 ◼   ► you're not really you're not backing it to make it come into existence. If you don't

00:39:30 ◼   ► buy it there you're gonna be able to buy it somewhere else in two months no matter what.

00:39:33 ◼   ► So I think they opened this thing six days ago. It was sometime last week. Yeah, within

00:39:38 ◼   ► the past week or so. Although I seem to recall it was before my incident. But anyway, they've

00:39:43 ◼   ► already raised $12 million, which is crazy. It's great. They had a $500,000 goal, which they knew

00:39:48 ◼   ► they were going to reach. Yeah, they knew they were going to blow through that.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Right. But they've got 12 million and... Are they the top? I was looking a few days ago at

00:39:57 ◼   ► the top projects and the Pebble was like number three and the Pebble time was already number four.

00:40:02 ◼   ► Yeah. And the Pebble was number one for a long time. Like it was the... It had sat at number

00:40:09 ◼   ► one for like the longest period of anybody. I also like I know that they've hired some people with

00:40:15 ◼   ► who were interaction designers for web OS. I think maybe all the way back to when it was a

00:40:21 ◼   ► palm project, which I've always thought was a great design for an operating system. Like

00:40:26 ◼   ► without any hesitation, I would say this, you know, second only to iOS and the one with the

00:40:31 ◼   ► most ideas that I kind of feel like were better than iOS. And then almost none of them got picked

00:40:37 ◼   ► up anywhere no no but like the way they did notifications with a thing at the bottom i mean

00:40:43 ◼   ► it's you know we have it a lot now they're you know they're like what on ios we call banners

00:40:47 ◼   ► but on the web os they were at the bottom and they everything was designed from the get-go to

00:40:53 ◼   ► support them so whatever was on your interface would shrink to go above it you know and okay

00:40:59 ◼   ► uh just all sorts of little things like that not that that's you know not that the bottom is that

00:41:04 ◼   ► much greater than the top, but there was so many little things about WebOS that were really nice,

00:41:08 ◼   ► you know. And, you know, a lot of them have come to Android and iOS now. You know,

00:41:12 ◼   ► the card-based interface for switching is, you know, was WebOS. And they've, just looking at

00:41:19 ◼   ► the video for the new Pebble Time, there's so many little bits of animation. And I'm impressed,

00:41:26 ◼   ► I mean, and it looked like it was all straightforward, like that they were

00:41:30 ◼   ► shooting actual prototypes, like it wasn't like that they were faking it.

00:41:32 ◼   ► It wasn't animator, right? Yeah. So that's impressive for E Ink, I think. And it, you know,

00:41:39 ◼   ► it just shows it was a glaring weak spot in the 1.0 Pebble OS. The interaction design of that

00:41:45 ◼   ► thing was it really felt like a device from the early 90s. No animation, everything just sort of

00:41:53 ◼   ► jumped from one thing to another. And no real sense of, what would you call it even, spatiality?

00:41:59 ◼   ► I don't know, like place, like where am I in the watch?

00:42:02 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:42:03 ◼   ► Right. You were just always looking at whatever was there and then swiping to a completely new,

00:42:07 ◼   ► like wiping the whole screen and getting a new look at it.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Right. So they've come up with, you know, is it actually going to be useful? I don't know. But

00:42:15 ◼   ► to me, at least it's novel, which to me is always impressive. And it sounds like it could be good,

00:42:21 ◼   ► this timeline interface where older stuff is up and future stuff is down and the moment right now

00:42:30 ◼   ► is in the middle so if you want to look at what you were doing yesterday you go up and you can

00:42:34 ◼   ► see like what was my step count yesterday i guess where was i yesterday and if you want to see where

00:42:40 ◼   ► you have to go tomorrow you go down and it'll say well here's you know here's your schedule for

00:42:44 ◼   ► tomorrow and then you hit the middle button and you're back to now here's the time and what's

00:42:48 ◼   ► what's going on right now.

00:42:49 ◼   ► I think it was

00:42:51 ◼   ► that I think it was a pretty impressive

00:42:53 ◼   ► response because obviously when

00:42:55 ◼   ► was the Apple Watch announced

00:42:56 ◼   ► last September.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Yeah. So I'm

00:43:01 ◼   ► presumably they were already working

00:43:02 ◼   ► on this but and they

00:43:04 ◼   ► had a sense that something might be

00:43:06 ◼   ► coming from Apple but then suddenly

00:43:07 ◼   ► Apple announces it and they're

00:43:09 ◼   ► trying to compete with that obviously

00:43:11 ◼   ► as a smartwatch but it's

00:43:12 ◼   ► a very different product.

00:43:14 ◼   ► They're not they didn't suddenly say

00:43:15 ◼   ► you know what we better put a touch

00:43:16 ◼   ► screen on there and it's got to be

00:43:18 ◼   ► proper LED display or LCD display rather, they stuck with what they had, which was the E-paper,

00:43:27 ◼   ► and improved upon that in a way that makes it a different product and not sort of a direct

00:43:33 ◼   ► competitor to the Apple Watch. Yeah, definitely. I think if Apple Watch has had any influence on

00:43:39 ◼   ► this at all, I would guess it's only the timing that maybe that's it lit a fire.

00:43:45 ◼   ► Of the release, you mean?

00:43:45 ◼   ► Yeah, you know that I mean they expect to ship them in May

00:43:49 ◼   ► I mean

00:43:50 ◼   ► But maybe that was a good and maybe it was really just motivation that knowing that you know

00:43:54 ◼   ► when Apple finally decloaked the watch in September and said early

00:43:57 ◼   ► 2015 that it really motivated the people who work at pebble to let's we got a ship before they do, you know

00:44:04 ◼   ► Right, we are we just have to announce before they do it's a good motivation

00:44:08 ◼   ► But I would bet though that the design of this was already largely in place and it certainly is true to the original pebble

00:44:15 ◼   ► vision. And that to me is also why these guys are so interesting to watch, is they clearly have a

00:44:21 ◼   ► very different just basic idea for what a little wrist smart computer would be like than Apple does.

00:44:30 ◼   ► Well, and it's much simpler. The technology inside of it is a lot simpler, which means it's

00:44:36 ◼   ► cheaper. It means it lasts for, what do they say, like seven to 10 days, I think. I know the first

00:44:42 ◼   ► one did.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Which was definitely true in my experience.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Yeah, oh absolutely. The first one definitely had good battery life and

00:44:47 ◼   ► Apple still hasn't announced an actual battery life, but they're saying charge it every night, right? Right. So that to me is definitely

00:44:55 ◼   ► Not a good thing. I mean, I don't think it'll affect things too negatively

00:44:59 ◼   ► But I'd rather not have to charge a watch every single night

00:45:02 ◼   ► Right it were to know that if you're only going away for an overnight, you know, like just one overnight

00:45:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna be in New York, you know for 48 hours that you still have to take your charger, right?

00:45:13 ◼   ► And it's a different charger than everything else you've got. So you've got your charger for your

00:45:18 ◼   ► phone and your laptop and now your watch. Right. And it's totally understandable why. Although,

00:45:24 ◼   ► I wonder, because to me the way forward would be to get the iPhone on the magnetic charger. I mean,

00:45:31 ◼   ► clearly a lightning port is never going to happen on a watch because it would be horrible.

00:45:35 ◼   ► But a magnetic charger for the iPhone, I could see that

00:45:42 ◼   ► In terms of like decreasing the number of things you have to pack with you,

00:45:45 ◼   ► but on the other hand, like when you travel, I always, you know, I charge my phone right before

00:45:50 ◼   ► I go to sleep. And so if I have to charge the phone and the watch, I still, I don't see how

00:45:54 ◼   ► you get out of two chargers, but at least you maybe, you know, you don't have to worry that you've

00:45:58 ◼   ► picked the wrong one. Right. Well, I guess the other thing that I sort of don't understand is

00:46:04 ◼   ► that there's definitely been talk of using the Taptic feedback to wake you up in the morning.

00:46:09 ◼   ► No, yeah. Yeah. If you're charging the watch overnight, that's not going to work, obviously.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Right. Yeah, I don't get it. I know Johnny Ive, I think it was, I don't think they talked about

00:46:19 ◼   ► it at the event, but I think there was some kind of interview with Johnny Ive, like maybe it was

00:46:23 ◼   ► the Vanity Fair conference that he was interviewed at, and he mentioned that it's a great alarm clock

00:46:29 ◼   ► and immediately you were like, I messaging me like, well, how the hell is that going to work?

00:46:34 ◼   ► - Right, you'll charge it every night.

00:46:37 ◼   ► And then you'll remember at four in the morning to wake up.

00:46:41 ◼   ► - Put it on.

00:46:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, like you have to set your iPhone alarm

00:46:44 ◼   ► to remind you.

00:46:45 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:46:46 ◼   ► And fortunately that alarm goes no matter what.

00:46:48 ◼   ► So your iPhone alarm will go off,

00:46:51 ◼   ► you'll put the watch on,

00:46:52 ◼   ► and then four hours later you'll wake up.

00:46:54 ◼   ► - There is some talk, I forget where it came out,

00:46:57 ◼   ► like in the dribs and drabs of stuff

00:46:59 ◼   ► that's coming out in the last few weeks.

00:47:01 ◼   ► There's something that came out

00:47:03 ◼   ► that it might charge very quickly,

00:47:05 ◼   ► that it won't take all night to charge,

00:47:07 ◼   ► that it'll charge pretty fast.

00:47:09 ◼   ► And that might not even be

00:47:10 ◼   ► because the charging technology is all that fast,

00:47:12 ◼   ► but simply that it's such a tiny battery that--

00:47:14 ◼   ► - It's got a tiny battery, right, exactly.

00:47:15 ◼   ► It can't have that big a battery, given how big it is.

00:47:18 ◼   ► - Right, that maybe like an iPad

00:47:21 ◼   ► that was charging at the same rate would take a week,

00:47:24 ◼   ► but the watch can charge in half an hour

00:47:26 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:47:28 ◼   ► - And did they say anything,

00:47:30 ◼   ► is the bigger watch gonna have a bigger battery?

00:47:32 ◼   ► - It must, right?

00:47:34 ◼   ► I mean, why wouldn't it?

00:47:37 ◼   ► I can't imagine that they would put a smaller battery in it

00:47:41 ◼   ► just so that it has the same, you know,

00:47:44 ◼   ► and presumably it's going to need,

00:47:47 ◼   ► the laws of physics would say that it's going to need

00:47:49 ◼   ► a bigger, the screen's gonna use more energy.

00:47:52 ◼   ► 'Cause it has-- - Right, so that's actually

00:47:54 ◼   ► the question is, is will it have longer battery life?

00:47:57 ◼   ► - Right, is it like an iPhone 6, 6 Plus type thing

00:48:00 ◼   ► where the bigger one is gonna have noticeably

00:48:01 ◼   ► better battery life or is it the other way around where maybe the extra size of the screen

00:48:08 ◼   ► eats up all the extra battery life that they can fit in there? I don't know. It's a good

00:48:12 ◼   ► question.

00:48:13 ◼   ► I guess we'll see in a week, maybe.

00:48:14 ◼   ► Yeah. I hadn't really thought about this because for whatever reason, selfishly, I had known

00:48:20 ◼   ► that if I get one of these, I'm going to want 42 millimeters, not the 38 millimeter. So

00:48:25 ◼   ► I haven't really thought about the 38 millimeter ones. And then when it comes to cost, I haven't

00:48:29 ◼   ► really like the game that everybody's playing you know the last two weeks

00:48:33 ◼   ► including me I'm not pointing figures but you know how much of these things

00:48:38 ◼   ► gonna cost I hadn't occurred to me that the 38 millimeter one would cost less

00:48:42 ◼   ► right at any level aluminum steel gold gold it makes out of it the gold right

00:48:48 ◼   ► right because even if the price isn't really based on the price of gold it

00:48:52 ◼   ► there's the illusion that it is right right yeah so if you if you if they were

00:48:57 ◼   ► the same price, then somebody's getting something for free. Right, right. It feels like you're

00:49:01 ◼   ► getting, it actually feels like you're getting ripped off if they're the same price, if you're

00:49:05 ◼   ► getting the bigger one, or the smaller one. But anyway, we can talk about pricing in a moment.

00:49:10 ◼   ► But with Pebble, I don't know. The bottom line, I'm very impressed by what they've

00:49:16 ◼   ► showed. I don't think I'm going to like it, and I think you're right that maybe it's not even

00:49:19 ◼   ► fair because I'm an iPhone user, but I'm certainly rooting for them.

00:49:24 ◼   ► I think it's I think it's certainly great to have anybody in the space doing something to compete with Apple and doing something different where hopefully

00:49:31 ◼   ► Some ideas cross pollinate instead of you know, somebody coming directly head-on and and you're just trying to match features here. It's something where

00:49:39 ◼   ► Pebble has some very different ideas and potentially it changes the way you do things on both platforms

00:49:44 ◼   ► Android where I think one of the things that to me was a little surprising about

00:49:49 ◼   ► The when the Apple watch was unveiled in September was how at least at the hardware level

00:49:56 ◼   ► It's sort of the same basic idea as Android wear right like it's you know a phone type display

00:50:03 ◼   ► You know whether it's IPS or whether it's OLED or whatever

00:50:07 ◼   ► It sounds like apples is going to be OLED because they want the blacks to you know, they want the deeper blacks

00:50:14 ◼   ► But it's whatever the actual technology it's a you know, a light up bright color phone display with a touchscreen

00:50:21 ◼   ► You know, it's take a take a modern smartphone and shrink it to your watch right at a fundamental level now

00:50:27 ◼   ► I think Apple watch is clearly more ambitious than Android where in terms of having apps actually on the watch and Android

00:50:33 ◼   ► Where is a little bit more about just showing you these cards that are based on your Google now

00:50:39 ◼   ► profile. It's more like here's all the stuff Google knows about you. Google knows you have

00:50:43 ◼   ► a flight tomorrow because your Gmail adds the flight confirmation from the airline.

00:50:48 ◼   ► And so they put a card on here. And since they know you have a flight and you're going to

00:50:53 ◼   ► San Francisco, then they know to put a card on there that has your weather for San Francisco.

00:50:59 ◼   ► It's this card-based interface. But just at the hardware level, it's this one day of battery life

00:51:06 ◼   ► Bluetooth connection to your phone with a bright color screen and pebble pebble has a very different

00:51:11 ◼   ► take on that with the battery i mean the pebble is obviously very different with the with the

00:51:16 ◼   ► e-paper with the e-ink but what what might you have expected apple to do any differently i guess

00:51:20 ◼   ► i don't know i uh you know i i i guess it's not in the digital crown is sort of their distinguishing

00:51:28 ◼   ► hardware characteristic right absolutely and and i know that it sounds like a trivial little thing

00:51:33 ◼   ► And I pointed this out on Twitter the other day, and a whole bunch of Android people were like,

00:51:39 ◼   ► "Dude, all the Android Wear phones have a crown. Look." But they don't. They have buttons. It's

00:51:46 ◼   ► placed where it goes on a watch. It's over there in the same place where a crown is on a watch.

00:51:52 ◼   ► But on all the Android Wear phones that I've seen to date, it's just a button that you press to

00:51:55 ◼   ► wake it up or dismiss things or something. What I mean that Apple has done that is original is

00:52:01 ◼   ► is the spinning crown and that it's a big part of the interaction of using the device.

00:52:06 ◼   ► Well, I think they talked about it, right? That the, you know, the gesture on the iPad,

00:52:11 ◼   ► you know, 10 years ago, the spinning wheel was a big deal and then touch multi-touch on the iPhone,

00:52:17 ◼   ► and now this is sort of the new gesture that, you know, is distinguishing and potentially

00:52:23 ◼   ► changes the way you're going to use this sort of thing. Right. I think that, yeah, I think

00:52:26 ◼   ► you're right though that in the video, like I think Johnny Ive, you know, we're not like putting

00:52:31 ◼   ► words in his mouth. That's exactly what he said. Like that each one of those leaps forward came

00:52:35 ◼   ► with one new thing like the Macintosh with the mouse pointer, right? Right. You have a thing on

00:52:41 ◼   ► your desk that you slide around your desk and it moves a pointer on your screen. That's what the

00:52:45 ◼   ► crown is to the Apple watch. Yeah. So, so when you did the, when you got to try one on, did,

00:52:51 ◼   ► did you try one of the functional ones on or did you just have the, I know they had like a demo.

00:52:55 ◼   ► No, nobody that I know of got to try on only Apple employees got, had the functioning ones.

00:53:01 ◼   ► ones that I got to try on were all running the loop. But the loop included, like when

00:53:07 ◼   ► it included things like getting a text message. So it's like, you know, it wasn't like a movie

00:53:15 ◼   ► was playing on a watch. It's like a series of events. Yeah. You know, right. But it's still not

00:53:21 ◼   ► so did you use the digital crown at all? I got to spin it, but I did not get to

00:53:29 ◼   ► use it in a meaningful way. Like when I spun it, it didn't affect what was going on on the watch.

00:53:34 ◼   ► Matt

00:53:56 ◼   ► I described the feel of the digital crown as I used the word lugubrious I

00:54:03 ◼   ► Knew it was a really wonderful word that started with L. But lugubrious is a word that means looking or sounding sad and dismal

00:54:13 ◼   ► It sounds like it means like liquid yeah, which is somehow why

00:54:22 ◼   ► it came to mind. The word I was looking for was "lubricousness."

00:54:27 ◼   ► As in lubricated?

00:54:30 ◼   ► Yes.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:32 ◼   ► Lubricous is a word that means, well, the first sense of it is not what I mean. The first sense

00:54:37 ◼   ► means offensively displaying or intended to arouse sexual desire. That is not what I meant. I meant,

00:54:45 ◼   ► definition two, smooth and slippery with oil or a similar substance.

00:54:50 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:51 ◼   ► And there is it's simply the only word that I've encountered that describes the feel of the digital crown. It has a wonderful

00:54:59 ◼   ► Wonderful almost magical lubriciousness to it

00:55:03 ◼   ► Alright, I'm telling you when this thing comes out and everybody gets to play with it

00:55:08 ◼   ► I'm telling it this is all everybody is gonna say is oh my god

00:55:11 ◼   ► I like to just sit there and spin that wheel. It just has this wonderful feel it feels amazing

00:55:18 ◼   ► It does not feel like you're spinning a mechanical thing. It feels like like it's somehow suspended in the world's like

00:55:25 ◼   ► Best oil and that it's like not even touching anything mechanical and it just spins in the oil

00:55:32 ◼   ► And it doesn't it doesn't spin. It doesn't ever reach an end point, right? No

00:55:36 ◼   ► It spins infinitely in both directions like a like a mouse pointer or a you know mouse wheel like a scroll wheel. Yeah

00:55:43 ◼   ► yeah, right, right, so if you were if if

00:55:48 ◼   ► And still, and people say to me, like I say, even on the show last week, I'll emphasize,

00:55:53 ◼   ► I really still have so many questions about Apple.

00:55:56 ◼   ► I mean, I'm kind of bummed that I'm not going to the event because I have so many questions.

00:55:59 ◼   ► But you know, and there's so many other events where I go and I don't really have that many

00:56:05 ◼   ► questions.

00:56:06 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:56:07 ◼   ► Like it's like—

00:56:08 ◼   ► Right.

00:56:09 ◼   ► When there's a new iPhone, it's not—

00:56:10 ◼   ► Right.

00:56:11 ◼   ► It's going to be terribly different from the old iPhone.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Right.

00:56:13 ◼   ► Like the better example would be the iPads last year.

00:56:15 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:56:16 ◼   ► least with the iPhones last year, it's like, well, am I going to like a bigger phone? How,

00:56:19 ◼   ► you know, the big phone was kind of a curiosity. But with the iPads, it was like, same as last

00:56:24 ◼   ► year, but now they have touch ID. It's like, okay. And I'm not saying, I don't blame Apple.

00:56:28 ◼   ► I'm not saying that was a bad event. I'm saying that somehow that's how progress happens.

00:56:31 ◼   ► I'm just saying, if I had to miss that event, I don't really feel like I was missing out

00:56:36 ◼   ► on a chance to really learn anything. I mean, it was pretty easy to figure out, you know,

00:56:41 ◼   ► remotely. Whereas the watch, I have so many questions, so many questions. And I don't

00:56:46 ◼   ► see how anybody couldn't be chock full of questions. Because the one thing they've shown

00:56:50 ◼   ► that you use the crown for is zooming. So when you're on the home screen, you can turn

00:56:55 ◼   ► it one way, spin it one way, and the apps get smaller, and you'll see more of them.

00:56:58 ◼   ► And you spin it the other way, and you zoom in, which makes them easier to tap. And then

00:57:03 ◼   ► the photos work the same way. So you can zoom out, and you see thousands of, or hundreds,

00:57:08 ◼   ► I guess, of tiny little thumbnails. And then you can zoom in and make them bigger. But

00:57:13 ◼   ► Are you gonna be able to use it to scroll

00:57:15 ◼   ► or when you scroll is that like you use the touch screen?

00:57:18 ◼   ► I mean I can't imagine that you're gonna wanna read

00:57:22 ◼   ► long passages of text but it still seems to me

00:57:26 ◼   ► like that would work for scrolling too

00:57:28 ◼   ► 'cause that it would for the same reason that they said

00:57:30 ◼   ► that they didn't wanna use touch for everything

00:57:32 ◼   ► which is that your big fat finger covers everything.

00:57:34 ◼   ► - Just gets in the way, yeah.

00:57:35 ◼   ► - Right.

00:57:36 ◼   ► I should take another break for a sponsor

00:57:40 ◼   ► but I just off the top of my head another thing,

00:57:42 ◼   ► I know I've mentioned this before but it's okay because everybody forgets all sorts of stuff

00:57:45 ◼   ► But I keep getting questions on Twitter about whether there are going to be left-handed

00:57:48 ◼   ► Models of the watch and the answer is no you can just it's a setting

00:57:55 ◼   ► Might even that's right. Yeah, you just turn it upside down and because the straps come right off. It's very easy

00:58:02 ◼   ► you'll just take the straps off put the

00:58:04 ◼   ► You know top strap on the bottom bottom strap on the top and then when you put it on your wrist it like knows that

00:58:10 ◼   ► Oh, you're left-handed and it'll just turn the whole interface upside down and the only is is it not even a setting that you need

00:58:16 ◼   ► to adjust I

00:58:17 ◼   ► Don't think so

00:58:18 ◼   ► Although I don't know because I I asked it might be the sort of thing that if if you do it

00:58:24 ◼   ► Before you go through the first run. It'll recognize it and know okay

00:58:28 ◼   ► But otherwise, you know, I think it's just a quick setting, you know open up settings and you know, tap a checkbox and

00:58:37 ◼   ► It just turns upside down. So the only difference you'll have as a left-handed user is that your crown will be underneath the button and

00:58:44 ◼   ► So yeah, that of the crown being above the button. It'll be below the button

00:58:48 ◼   ► That's the only difference which does make it a little weird

00:58:51 ◼   ► It still makes me you know

00:58:53 ◼   ► I'm still curious about the whole idea that it's not centered that the crown isn't centered because if the crown were centered

00:58:59 ◼   ► Which it is on a lot of watches then it would be it would be identical left-handed and right-handed. I

00:59:06 ◼   ► I don't think it's a big difference though.

00:59:07 ◼   ► And I also know I saw firsthand walking around after the event, I saw Eddy Cue wearing his

00:59:14 ◼   ► and he's left handed and he had it on his right hand upside down.

00:59:20 ◼   ► But there's only one button, right?

00:59:21 ◼   ► There's the crown on the button.

00:59:22 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:23 ◼   ► But the button is underneath the… when you're wearing it on your left wrist, the crown is

00:59:28 ◼   ► at the top and the button's underneath.

00:59:31 ◼   ► if you turn it upside down the crown is on the bottom and the button is at the top right

00:59:36 ◼   ► but even if even if the crown were centered the button would still oh yeah the button

00:59:40 ◼   ► would still yeah that's flipped yeah exactly I'm in my you know wonder why they didn't

00:59:45 ◼   ► do it this way world it would I guess it's sort of why didn't they put the button on

00:59:49 ◼   ► one side and the crown on the other right having both in the center but if you're gonna

00:59:53 ◼   ► put one above the other it would definitely not be the same left-handed and right-handed

00:59:58 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, yeah.

00:59:59 ◼   ► - Let me take a break here and thank our good friends

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01:01:20 ◼   ► one here. I've also been on one of those memory foam mattresses. I don't like it. I feel like

01:01:23 ◼   ► You get you get sunk in there like you're an egg carton or something like that

01:01:26 ◼   ► I don't want to get up from bed and have like a

01:01:28 ◼   ► Crime scene outline on my body on the bed. This isn't like that at all

01:01:32 ◼   ► It's like just enough of the memory ish stuff that I'm surprised that there's any of it

01:01:37 ◼   ► But they use a little bit of it, you know, that's what they call it

01:01:39 ◼   ► But it's not you know, there's no like outline of your body in there

01:01:42 ◼   ► We go to a retail store mattresses often cost well over

01:01:47 ◼   ► 1,500 bucks

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01:01:51 ◼   ► unbelievable how much mattresses like that's like one of those little things about getting

01:01:54 ◼   ► in the real world where you have to buy your own beds and like you said, it's too grand

01:01:58 ◼   ► out of your pocket or gets too grand to get a crane to put your refrigerator in your house.

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01:03:00 ◼   ► a box that's like the size of –

01:03:02 ◼   ► Like a sandwich, right?

01:03:03 ◼   ► No, it's like a little –

01:03:05 ◼   ► It's dry, like two sandwiches.

01:03:08 ◼   ► That's it.

01:03:09 ◼   ► It's a little bit bigger than a sandwich, but it's surprisingly small.

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01:03:17 ◼   ► Right.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Amazingly small for the queen size mattress that I had them send. Can't believe it. But

01:03:24 ◼   ► it's like when they tell you to, if you want to take some advice, when they tell you to

01:03:28 ◼   ► put it in a room where you want it before you open it, do that. Do that. Do that.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Does it explode out of the box or does it just…?

01:03:36 ◼   ► Explode but it is very rapid it it the mattress wants to be big

01:03:41 ◼   ► The mattress wants to expand to the size of a mattress

01:03:45 ◼   ► But you have a hundred days. No questions. They you don't like have to call them up and and talk to like a hard sell

01:03:53 ◼   ► Comcast guy who's gonna be like trying to talk you into keeping a mattress

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01:03:58 ◼   ► if you you just

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01:05:05 ◼   ► Get a new mattress you were shopping for a mattress you can't lose really

01:05:08 ◼   ► Hey, are you sure they don't have the Viva because it 404 is without

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01:05:19 ◼   ► www do www

01:05:22 ◼   ► You want you it does have the the it does have that. Yeah. Well, there we go

01:05:27 ◼   ► good thing that Paul kafasas is here I check these ads for you check these ads

01:05:32 ◼   ► I maybe what happened is that after I bitched about it the last time that they

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01:05:39 ◼   ► them good well anyway thank God Paul you know Paul just saved you 50 bucks

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01:05:55 ◼   ► The talk show good for them for putting it on there. I paid good money for that

01:05:58 ◼   ► So anyway, we talked about pebble we're talking about Apple watch

01:06:04 ◼   ► We could get into pricing I know I've written about this I

01:06:09 ◼   ► Don't I mean you've written about it and that was interesting enough. I find it sort of

01:06:14 ◼   ► We're gonna know in a week, right? Right. I do

01:06:17 ◼   ► I know I

01:06:18 ◼   ► That's the thing about doing this show the show before an event is fun because it's like the one time where you can you can

01:06:23 ◼   ► be completely wrong and just make stuff up and it's like anything could happen. But then

01:06:28 ◼   ► it's like, you know, six days from now, everything we said is either going to be completely wrong

01:06:32 ◼   ► and we look like idiots. Or even if we were right, it doesn't matter because everybody

01:06:36 ◼   ► knows it's true.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Who cares? Yeah. I mean, the most interesting thing to me is seeing just how big the range

01:06:44 ◼   ► is. And, you know, they've only told us one thing, that it's $349 for the very cheapest

01:06:48 ◼   ► Right and that to me means I figure there's like a slight chance. It's actually 299. What do you think?

01:06:54 ◼   ► No, you know you don't think they come down from that. Nope. Haven't they done that before I?

01:06:59 ◼   ► Think I feel like there was a product where they had pre announced a price and then they dropped at 50 bucks. I

01:07:05 ◼   ► Mean it certainly is more possible than that day that they raised the price, you know, right?

01:07:12 ◼   ► It's certainly not gonna be more than 349 to start right?

01:07:16 ◼   ► There's gonna be at least one model you can get for 349 for sure. I

01:07:20 ◼   ► Guess 299 is possible

01:07:23 ◼   ► But I don't know that just feels it feels to me like a side effect of the Tim Cook era of Apple is that?

01:07:29 ◼   ► They've they've really neatened up on things like that, you know like

01:07:34 ◼   ► Like famously with the iPhone

01:07:39 ◼   ► When they announced it at Macworld in January 2007 it had some kind of high

01:07:45 ◼   ► polymer plastic touch screen.

01:07:49 ◼   ► And then it was like right in May,

01:07:51 ◼   ► where they first announced final shipping dates and stuff,

01:07:55 ◼   ► and they said, "And by the way,

01:07:56 ◼   ► "we've upgraded the display from plastic

01:07:59 ◼   ► "to this amazing glass from,"

01:08:02 ◼   ► what's that company?

01:08:04 ◼   ► - Corning. - Corning.

01:08:05 ◼   ► And in stories that have come out in the years since,

01:08:09 ◼   ► it was clearly like,

01:08:14 ◼   ► know that it was Steve who's like, "Goddamn it, this is nicer, so we're definitely doing it. We're

01:08:18 ◼   ► not waiting a year. We're getting it in here now." And it's up to Tim Cook to somehow make this

01:08:22 ◼   ► happen. Where like- And I think the story was they had to find a factory, they had to ramp the

01:08:27 ◼   ► factory up to do it. It wasn't as if this existed and was being made. It was crazy.

01:08:32 ◼   ► Right. It was like nobody was really using it. Corning invented Gorilla Glass years before,

01:08:36 ◼   ► but nobody had really found a use for it. And they just didn't... They more or less needed them

01:08:42 ◼   ► to make more of it than they'd ever made before. And by the way, it's got to happen in the next

01:08:47 ◼   ► four weeks. So you're saying that I think you're right that it's a lot tighter.

01:08:52 ◼   ► Yeah, stuff like that doesn't happen anymore, I don't think. I think part of it is that Jobs

01:08:58 ◼   ► was clearly impetuous, and I don't think anybody would describe Tim Cook as impetuous. And I just

01:09:03 ◼   ► think that it's just a little bit more orderly. I feel like as of September, Tim Cook knew that

01:09:10 ◼   ► that they could sell this entry thing for $349.

01:09:12 ◼   ► And marketing-wise, however they decided

01:09:15 ◼   ► that that looks good as the entry level price,

01:09:17 ◼   ► I just don't see how that would change.

01:09:19 ◼   ► - Okay, so we're starting at $349.

01:09:21 ◼   ► Yeah, so to me, I don't care if it's exactly $999

01:09:26 ◼   ► or $1299, whatever, but I think the interesting thing to me

01:09:29 ◼   ► is just the three price points of the entry level

01:09:33 ◼   ► and then just the straight up Apple Watch and the edition,

01:09:36 ◼   ► which I think is, I hate that suffix

01:09:40 ◼   ► as to try and mean a whole 'nother thing, but.

01:09:43 ◼   ► - The more I write about it, the harder,

01:09:45 ◼   ► it never ceases being a mouthful to--

01:09:50 ◼   ► - Apple Watch edition.

01:09:51 ◼   ► - Right, because I keep wanting to use editions

01:09:54 ◼   ► to mean what they call collections.

01:09:57 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, that's just, the word edition means,

01:10:00 ◼   ► or often means a group of something.

01:10:03 ◼   ► - Right.

01:10:04 ◼   ► - And so I find it very awkward

01:10:05 ◼   ► that to be a model, but whatever. And combined with the fact, and I've still to this date,

01:10:10 ◼   ► still not gotten used to the fact that the mid-price or mid-level, the steel one is just

01:10:16 ◼   ► called Apple Watch. I really wish that it was the app, you know, the basic Apple Watch Sport,

01:10:21 ◼   ► Apple Watch Steel, Apple Watch Edition. I don't call it something, you know. Oh, give it, give

01:10:26 ◼   ► that one, give that one some sort of suffixes. That they all have a name, right? Right. There'd

01:10:31 ◼   ► there'd be like Sport, Steel, and Edition.

01:10:33 ◼   ► You know, I kind of see why they didn't,

01:10:36 ◼   ► I'm not even saying, 'cause I can't think of a good name.

01:10:38 ◼   ► I don't think Steel is a great name.

01:10:39 ◼   ► I think, you know, it's, you know, I don't know.

01:10:44 ◼   ► It's not great. - Sounds heavy.

01:10:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it maybe sounds a little masculine.

01:10:49 ◼   ► - Right, oh, definitely, yeah.

01:10:50 ◼   ► - You know, so I know, you know, I don't know,

01:10:54 ◼   ► and regular sounds stupid too.

01:10:56 ◼   ► You know, it's just called Apple Watch.

01:10:57 ◼   ► But it still, it makes it very hard to write about

01:11:00 ◼   ► because sometimes when you say Apple Watch,

01:11:02 ◼   ► you mean all of them, like your app.

01:11:05 ◼   ► Your app just runs on Apple Watch,

01:11:06 ◼   ► and it doesn't matter which one you bought.

01:11:09 ◼   ► But when you're shopping, if you just buy an Apple Watch,

01:11:12 ◼   ► you're buying a very specific model.

01:11:14 ◼   ► You're buying the stainless steel one.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Very confusing.

01:11:18 ◼   ► Perhaps worrisome, I don't know.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Maybe it's a little worrisome that they're coming out

01:11:23 ◼   ► with something that seems so,

01:11:25 ◼   ► sometimes it's so hard to talk about.

01:11:27 ◼   ► - Well, it's interesting 'cause you,

01:11:29 ◼   ► before we started the show,

01:11:30 ◼   ► sent me this image that somebody made and it was based on pricing predictions you had made.

01:11:34 ◼   ► They made this whole image and it was just, you know, here's all the prices. And I guess

01:11:40 ◼   ► you said it got circulated as if this was a real leak, right?

01:11:42 ◼   ► I'll put it, I will absolutely, positively, Dave, make sure I put this in the show notes.

01:11:47 ◼   ► I've already got a link in my show notes as we go. It's a guy, oh God, why can't anybody on a forum

01:11:55 ◼   ► Give themselves a real name

01:11:57 ◼   ► Pjur one is a Mac rumors forum member and last week he posted this image

01:12:04 ◼   ► And he his what he wrote. He's very honest. He's straightforward about he wrote I made this speculative

01:12:10 ◼   ► Priceless based in large part on Gruber's speculation colon and then here's the image that he made

01:12:17 ◼   ► But he he's using Apple

01:12:21 ◼   ► photography of the watches and he's set the names in the you know,

01:12:26 ◼   ► San Francisco font and he's got the prices in Helvetica

01:12:30 ◼   ► So it's vaguely styled or roughly styled in the format of Apple's marketing materials

01:12:36 ◼   ► I could tell by looking at it right away that it's not official. It's there's little subtle things that are off about the

01:12:42 ◼   ► fonts, but it's close enough that

01:12:47 ◼   ► 5% of people could easily be convinced that this is from Apple.

01:12:51 ◼   ► - Right, and so then it got circulated

01:12:52 ◼   ► as if this had leaked out of Apple, right?

01:12:54 ◼   ► - Right, 'cause it's all one big image,

01:12:55 ◼   ► and of course it hit Twitter and people stop immediately,

01:12:59 ◼   ► especially when the source is something

01:13:00 ◼   ► like a forum post at MacRumors.

01:13:03 ◼   ► And it spun out of control incredibly fast.

01:13:08 ◼   ► Within 24 hours over the last weekend,

01:13:10 ◼   ► it went from, did you see that there was a guy

01:13:13 ◼   ► who posted a thing in the MacRumors forum

01:13:15 ◼   ► to like the poor kid, some poor kid at iDownload blog,

01:13:20 ◼   ► like by the next day had written,

01:13:22 ◼   ► these are the Apple Watch prices.

01:13:24 ◼   ► - And then had to retract it later.

01:13:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, had to retract it with a horribly,

01:13:30 ◼   ► he was very contrite about it, but you know.

01:13:33 ◼   ► - Well, what was interesting about the whole thing was--

01:13:35 ◼   ► - I still get it, if you look at my Twitter stream,

01:13:36 ◼   ► by the way, right now as we speak,

01:13:38 ◼   ► you won't have to go more than 20 or 30

01:13:40 ◼   ► before you'll find somebody asking me

01:13:42 ◼   ► what I think about this leaked, priceless.

01:13:45 ◼   ► Which is based on your own predictions

01:13:48 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:49 ◼   ► From like two weeks earlier.

01:13:50 ◼   ► Right, but it's actually not. I actually think that these prices are off. There's some things

01:13:55 ◼   ► that I think he probably got right and he was very thoughtful about, but I think once he gets

01:14:00 ◼   ► past Apple Watch Sport, he's vastly underestimating the price of these things.

01:14:04 ◼   ► Well, what I thought was interesting about it was just how clunky the image was, and it shows,

01:14:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I have to pull the thing up, but it shows there's like 18 rows aren't there?

01:14:15 ◼   ► At least right right and it's it's showing you know here's the intro sport. Here's the

01:14:22 ◼   ► steel sport. Here's the main Apple watch. Here's the Apple watch in space gray or whatever and

01:14:27 ◼   ► he's got 12 pricing tiers. Okay, and each one in two sizes 38 and 42 and we mentioned this earlier

01:14:37 ◼   ► They showed I think that actually makes sense that I don't know about at the sport level

01:14:41 ◼   ► I could see like maybe at sport

01:14:43 ◼   ► They're both just 349 and you just pick the size you want but then I think once you go to steel and gold

01:14:47 ◼   ► There there probably will be a small difference in price

01:14:50 ◼   ► right

01:14:53 ◼   ► But it was interesting just because of how clunky it actually is and you know

01:14:56 ◼   ► We were talking about how clunky it is to talk about the different

01:14:59 ◼   ► Collections

01:15:02 ◼   ► and I think it's I don't know it'll be interesting to see just how this plays out because

01:15:06 ◼   ► Apple has not really ever had anything at least not recently. It was this complex or this complicated, right?

01:15:12 ◼   ► It is like buying a watch

01:15:14 ◼   ► I mean like when you go and buy, you know a watch at a jewelry store, you know

01:15:18 ◼   ► you can't just say I want a you know Rolex Explorer and

01:15:22 ◼   ► Well, I guess Rolex Explorer is actually one where there is just one

01:15:26 ◼   ► You know like a Rolex Submariner has all sorts of color choices just on the dial there's blue dial

01:15:35 ◼   ► There's green dial the black dial is the traditional one steel steel with gold all gold, you know, etc, etc

01:15:42 ◼   ► And that there's you know, all sorts of matrixes like that within

01:15:47 ◼   ► The line of all the major watch brands where you know certain watches come in all sorts of different

01:15:53 ◼   ► You know dial colors and band colors and stuff like that

01:15:56 ◼   ► But it's absolutely nothing like any Apple product before right and and you know

01:16:02 ◼   ► Apple used to have these terrible major matrices of products, you know

01:16:05 ◼   ► the ten different models of performa back in the early 90s and so on and

01:16:09 ◼   ► Then I think it's in my mind

01:16:12 ◼   ► It's sort of burned in where Steve Jobs would have a grid and there would just be four items

01:16:17 ◼   ► Right, right and it's you know good better best and and I don't know I guess that's only three items, but

01:16:22 ◼   ► well famously the I

01:16:25 ◼   ► To me it was like a moment where I remember thinking like I think that this guy is gonna do it

01:16:30 ◼   ► I think he's going to turn the company around is that that four-way matrix for

01:16:35 ◼   ► It was laptop desktops

01:16:38 ◼   ► Yeah, right pro consumer

01:16:40 ◼   ► And so that's it. So it's the iBook. It's the power book. It's the iMac. It's the power mac, right? Yeah

01:16:45 ◼   ► Yeah, that's that's really the one i'm thinking. Yeah, and it was brilliant and it in hindsight

01:16:50 ◼   ► I think it's so easy to underestimate the brilliance of that decision

01:16:52 ◼   ► But it it cut all sorts, you know

01:16:55 ◼   ► Cutting products out of a company is always painful politically unless you're somebody like jobs who just doesn't give a shit

01:17:00 ◼   ► about the policy screw you if your job was running the performance 700 line you know

01:17:06 ◼   ► you know get with the program and none of the no other computer company had a had a

01:17:12 ◼   ► lineup like that right I mean even to this day if you go to like dell.com and try to

01:17:16 ◼   ► configure it it's a nightmare trying to it's hard to even figure out like even if you just

01:17:22 ◼   ► know I want like the the maxed out you know I want the best laptop I can get it's like

01:17:26 ◼   ► hard to figure it out. Right? It's this is nothing like that. And again, that's not to say that if

01:17:33 ◼   ► Steve Jobs were still around, they wouldn't be doing this. Who knows, you know, maybe, you know,

01:17:36 ◼   ► he and Johnny I've mapped out these watches, you know, five years ago, and you know, he'd be right

01:17:41 ◼   ► on board watches are different. You know, there's no, you know, you can't sell watches like yourself.

01:17:46 ◼   ► PCs and laptops. Well, well, are you? Well, they're not they're not willing to try at least

01:17:53 ◼   ► right now or they're looking to try doing it the way you normally sell a watch as opposed to the

01:17:57 ◼   ► way that they sell phones and computers. Yeah, no, I guess you're right. I shouldn't say you can't. I

01:18:01 ◼   ► should say it doesn't. Apple apparently doesn't think that they can or they should. Well, and so

01:18:07 ◼   ► the interesting thing to me is I was in an Apple store, what about a week ago? And I they haven't

01:18:13 ◼   ► shown how the stores are going to change, but they're clearly going to have to change. And I

01:18:18 ◼   ► think that's something that everyone will see in the near future. And that to me is more interesting

01:18:22 ◼   ► speculating on the prices. You've been in a store recently, right?

01:18:26 ◼   ► Yeah, a couple times.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Yeah, what are they going to do?

01:18:29 ◼   ► I don't know. I mean, and they even said in the New Yorker story on Johnny Ive,

01:18:34 ◼   ► that big one profile, they even mentioned that one of the things he's got going on is that he's

01:18:39 ◼   ► leading a redesign of the—it sounds to me like from—it was sort of an offhand remark in, you know,

01:18:46 ◼   ► the article was so long that it's easy to just throw something off, but it seems like a huge

01:18:51 ◼   ► undertaking that they're gonna redesign all of the stores you know he's working

01:18:55 ◼   ► hand in hand with Angela aren't on that right partly for the watch for sure I'm

01:19:02 ◼   ► I'm guessing partly just to build for the future because who knows what

01:19:05 ◼   ► they're gonna do next you know but I have no idea what they're gonna do I my

01:19:10 ◼   ► best guess at this point is that there's nowhere near enough time for them to

01:19:13 ◼   ► renovate even if it's not a total redesign of every store even if it's

01:19:17 ◼   ► some kind of we're gonna renovate the where the genius bar used to be or

01:19:21 ◼   ► something. We're gonna get rid of all the, take the spot in the stores where they used to sell

01:19:27 ◼   ► gift cards. And I guess if you want a gift card now, you just talk to somebody and we'll use that

01:19:32 ◼   ► space to sell the watches. I don't think the vast majority of stores are gonna have the edition

01:19:40 ◼   ► models. I think that at least to start out, my best, this is my best, 'cause I just don't think

01:19:44 ◼   ► there's enough time. It's already March 2nd. If they don't ship until April 30, which would be the

01:19:51 ◼   ► And I don't think that's good given that the event is on March 9th. I'm kind of thinking they're gonna ship in early April, right?

01:19:56 ◼   ► But you know the the longest period of time they have

01:20:00 ◼   ► Between like seven weeks right and there's no way that they could do that across however many hundred stores they have

01:20:05 ◼   ► So do you think I think it's like three or four hundred stores now? Yeah, so do you think?

01:20:09 ◼   ► the addition models will be something that you go to New York City or LA or

01:20:13 ◼   ► You know could be to start and certainly San Francisco, right? Right, you know, there's whatever wherever

01:20:20 ◼   ► they're major cities yeah well and maybe that's all the stores that are like landmarks okay you

01:20:26 ◼   ► know there's i don't know what i don't quite think that they have like a tier of those stores you know

01:20:31 ◼   ► like a name for it but they're you know the ones like in london that tim cook was just at this week

01:20:37 ◼   ► you know the ones that look architecturally interesting and that are physically bigger

01:20:41 ◼   ► that they'll have you know a separate little uh a salon you know where you'll buy the edition models

01:20:49 ◼   ► I think I you know and I think they could they could even start and just say it's only in three

01:20:53 ◼   ► cities to start in New York you know Los Angeles and San Francisco and then they'll slowly roll

01:20:59 ◼   ► that out over time right yeah I don't know it's the to me that's that's a very interesting aspect

01:21:06 ◼   ► of it that you know not a lot of people will consider and then maybe it doesn't really matter

01:21:10 ◼   ► that much but this is it's not it's not changing the company the way that the iPad changed the

01:21:14 ◼   ► company because that was or it's changing it much more than the iPad or even the iPhone changed the

01:21:18 ◼   ► the company because those are still computing devices that are sold the way computing devices

01:21:24 ◼   ► are sold and the watch clearly is not going to be sold that way.

01:21:27 ◼   ► Right and it's there's so many different ways where it's like you can't have it both ways

01:21:32 ◼   ► like if you're going to say we're going and I just I really do believe that this is true that

01:21:37 ◼   ► these are ten thousand dollar watches maybe you know if and again if I'm right that they're

01:21:41 ◼   ► that they sell a gold link band, $20,000 watches. And that's totally reasonable given the price of

01:21:50 ◼   ► fine watches and solid gold bracelets in the market today. But you can't have those things

01:21:58 ◼   ► being sold by kids wearing jeans and t-shirts, right? Who like their next, the next thing that

01:22:06 ◼   ► they're doing is scanning somebody's Hello Kitty iPhone case.

01:22:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:22:13 ◼   ► - You probably, yeah.

01:22:15 ◼   ► - What can I help you with?

01:22:16 ◼   ► I'm buying a Hello Kitty iPhone case.

01:22:18 ◼   ► Oh, okay, thank you, here you go.

01:22:19 ◼   ► Do you want a receipt?

01:22:20 ◼   ► Nope, all right.

01:22:21 ◼   ► I'm buying a $15,000 watch.

01:22:23 ◼   ► Okay, here you go.

01:22:25 ◼   ► Like, I think Molt said last week,

01:22:26 ◼   ► do you think they're gonna let you do the walk out

01:22:28 ◼   ► and pay on your own?

01:22:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:22:31 ◼   ► - Just walk out the door.

01:22:32 ◼   ► - You wouldn't even imagine how hard you'd get tackled.

01:22:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:22:37 ◼   ► Trying to walk out of the store

01:22:38 ◼   ► with a self-paid $15,000 watch.

01:22:41 ◼   ► Like they're just gonna have them on the shelf

01:22:43 ◼   ► just in a little case.

01:22:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, you just grab it and you flash your receipt

01:22:47 ◼   ► and you're good to go.

01:22:49 ◼   ► - No, I don't know.

01:22:50 ◼   ► I'm having so much fun with this watch thing.

01:22:53 ◼   ► And again, it's not even because I know I want one

01:22:55 ◼   ► and I can't wait to get it 'cause I don't even know.

01:22:57 ◼   ► I'm so, so many questions

01:22:59 ◼   ► about what I would find useful with it.

01:23:01 ◼   ► I just find it useful like,

01:23:02 ◼   ► as somebody who's professionally paid

01:23:04 ◼   ► to write about the company that there's so many things

01:23:06 ◼   ► we don't know.

01:23:07 ◼   ► And there don't seem to be good answers for it.

01:23:11 ◼   ► There just does not seem to be a good answer

01:23:13 ◼   ► for how do you sell a $10,000 gold watch

01:23:15 ◼   ► in the Apple store as we know it.

01:23:17 ◼   ► Like I said to Molt last week, I know in the Philly store,

01:23:21 ◼   ► we have an upstairs that's not retail.

01:23:23 ◼   ► You can't wander up there.

01:23:24 ◼   ► It's like the business center and they have classes

01:23:27 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:23:28 ◼   ► And I could see them apportioning, you know,

01:23:31 ◼   ► like if you go in to buy the edition,

01:23:33 ◼   ► you would be taken up there.

01:23:35 ◼   ► But even then, even if you get escorted

01:23:37 ◼   ► to a quiet salon-type experience

01:23:41 ◼   ► and get a concierge level of sales.

01:23:44 ◼   ► - Get some cucumber water.

01:23:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, cucumber water and maybe a glass of bubbly.

01:23:49 ◼   ► And you get to try these watches on

01:23:51 ◼   ► while sitting or whatever.

01:23:54 ◼   ► I still don't see how you go from the front of the store

01:23:56 ◼   ► to where you tell somebody that's what you're here for.

01:24:03 ◼   ► my big irritation with Apple stores in general is that sometimes it's so hard to get somebody's

01:24:07 ◼   ► attention, like if you know exactly what you want to get. You know, like we got Jonas a MacBook for

01:24:17 ◼   ► Christmas, and I knew exactly what I wanted to get. And it's like, you know, it didn't take too long.

01:24:24 ◼   ► And you know, I have to say, given that it was the holiday season and everything, it didn't take too

01:24:28 ◼   ► long. But it seemed to take a little bit too long given that I knew exactly what I wanted when I

01:24:32 ◼   ► stepped foot into the store right yeah yeah and and now they're adding a whole

01:24:38 ◼   ► separate section most likely right like if you walk into a Tiffany to buy some

01:24:44 ◼   ► fine jewelry you know there's no there aren't any there's no loud crowds you

01:24:48 ◼   ► know you don't kids sitting on round balls playing bugs life or right it's

01:24:54 ◼   ► you know and who knows you know maybe if it's like the Christmas or whatever

01:24:59 ◼   ► whatever, maybe you might have to wait to before a salesperson will come greet you.

01:25:04 ◼   ► But once the first salesperson who greets you is going to be able to handle your request,

01:25:09 ◼   ► whether it's for $150 pendant or whether it's for $15,000 pendant, right? It's like whatever

01:25:16 ◼   ► it is that you're there to buy at Tiffany, that your sales rep is going to make you feel

01:25:20 ◼   ► comfortable and like you're in the right place.

01:25:23 ◼   ► Right. I just don't get it with that. I think the more I think I wrote about this last week

01:25:30 ◼   ► I the more I look at the bands the more I think that there's gonna be

01:25:33 ◼   ► wide variation and pricing based on the band

01:25:38 ◼   ► I'm convinced of it and I think it's sort of how they fill in the gaps

01:25:42 ◼   ► Like if you're looking I think if you're looking and I this is high for months. I was thinking well three main price points

01:25:47 ◼   ► You know 349 for sport

01:25:50 ◼   ► Something maybe a thousand for the steel and five thousand for gold or whatever. I think that within each

01:25:55 ◼   ► Collection I'm making sure I use the right word within each collection. There's gonna be I think a

01:26:01 ◼   ► Not startlingly big but a very wide variety like I could see the still based on fans

01:26:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I could see the steel one like starting at like seven hundred dollars

01:26:12 ◼   ► With the rubber band. What do they call it? Poly you?

01:26:16 ◼   ► urethane what's the famous their fancy word for rubber band rubber strap

01:26:21 ◼   ► floral elastomer all right I would not have come up with that black floral

01:26:29 ◼   ► elastomer so I could see that starting at let's say 700 which would be double

01:26:35 ◼   ► the price of the sport watch which to me is like a reasonable like increment to

01:26:39 ◼   ► go from aluminum to steel you double it but then I would think like the ones

01:26:46 ◼   ► but the leather bands would be a couple hundred bucks more than that and I could see like

01:26:49 ◼   ► the metal link band one being like $1500 or even $2000 and I know everybody else is like

01:26:56 ◼   ► nobody else is thinking that for the steel one but I could see them doing it. I just

01:27:02 ◼   ► reread it before we started the show. On Apple Watch's page, you go to apple.com/watch/apple-watch.

01:27:10 ◼   ► Now this is probably going to change next week so you know go check it out before you

01:27:15 ◼   ► I'm guessing the website will be redone after it's released.

01:27:19 ◼   ► But here's their description for the link bracelet.

01:27:22 ◼   ► This is for the steel watch.

01:27:23 ◼   ► This isn't for the edition.

01:27:24 ◼   ► This is for the steel watch.

01:27:26 ◼   ► Crafted from the same 316L stainless steel alloy is the case.

01:27:30 ◼   ► The link bracelet has more than 100 components.

01:27:34 ◼   ► The machining process is so precise, it takes nearly nine hours to cut the links for a single

01:27:40 ◼   ► band.

01:27:41 ◼   ► In part, that's because they aren't simply a uniform size but subtly increase in width

01:27:46 ◼   ► as they approach the case.

01:27:48 ◼   ► Once assembled, the links are brushed by hand to ensure that the texture follows the contours

01:27:54 ◼   ► of the design.

01:27:55 ◼   ► The custom butterfly closure folds neatly within the bracelet and several links feature

01:28:00 ◼   ► a simple release button so you can add and remove links without any special tools available

01:28:05 ◼   ► in stainless steel and black stainless steel.

01:28:08 ◼   ► If it takes nine hours for them to cut one, and then after it's assembled, it's polished

01:28:13 ◼   ► by hand, that's not going to be like $150 extra.

01:28:19 ◼   ► I'm not exaggerating.

01:28:22 ◼   ► That might be like a $1,500 bracelet.

01:28:25 ◼   ► It might mean that the watch that comes with that bracelet is $2,000.

01:28:32 ◼   ► Reading that description, it certainly sounds much more expensive than I think what people

01:28:37 ◼   ► anticipating yeah right it's like at first like the way they showed it at the

01:28:41 ◼   ► event in September it's like you can get a bracelet that matches your taste you

01:28:45 ◼   ► know maybe you're you know maybe and I like I've had over the years I've had

01:28:49 ◼   ► many watches with like a rubber plastic strap I find them to be very comfortable

01:28:53 ◼   ► I think you know I always feel like you can get them nice and tight and then

01:28:56 ◼   ► they have a little bit of give I I think that the fluoro elastomer band is gonna

01:29:01 ◼   ► be great but they made it seem as though it's like pick the one that matches your

01:29:06 ◼   ► style and you know maybe you know I think everybody thought well maybe this

01:29:09 ◼   ► the link bracelet will cost a little bit more but I if you think about it if you

01:29:13 ◼   ► just start with the assumption that it's gonna cost a lot more that description

01:29:17 ◼   ► makes a lot more sense nine hours to cut the links is for what what what bracelet

01:29:23 ◼   ► what I'll tell you what they're saying you know that's because they chained

01:29:27 ◼   ► width slightly maybe they could have just made them the same width well or

01:29:31 ◼   ► you could have cut in about four hours well why couldn't you have one machine

01:29:34 ◼   ► that cuts the first link one machine you know right right right it actually it

01:29:40 ◼   ► seems kind of crazy that it takes nine hours you know but I mean I have no

01:29:45 ◼   ► reason to doubt them but there certainly seem to be setting it up it that to me

01:29:48 ◼   ► sounds like the description of a $1,500 bracelet of an expensive piece of

01:29:52 ◼   ► watch band yeah right the thing that's the thing that's so interesting to me is

01:29:58 ◼   ► that all of these watches are the same like the gold whatever it costs whether

01:30:04 ◼   ► it's only 1500 bucks or whether it's 15,000 bucks it's still the exact same device as the watch that

01:30:10 ◼   ► you're gonna get for 349 bucks and that's nuts well but there is precedent for that in the the

01:30:19 ◼   ► some precedent not scaling all the way down to 349 but that's you know like if you buy a Rolex

01:30:26 ◼   ► Submariner in stainless steel in the fashion world there's huge precedent right right or yeah

01:30:32 ◼   ► are like handbags right that they're you know there might be two Louis Vuitton bags but one is

01:30:37 ◼   ► made out of you know I don't know some kind of special rare leather and the other one is right

01:30:44 ◼   ► out of the regular leather and it's you know $5,000 difference and it's the exact same bag

01:30:49 ◼   ► same dimension same pocket same zippers everything's the same except one is made out of a different kind

01:30:54 ◼   ► of leather and it costs $5,000 more you know but in terms of technology what has

01:31:01 ◼   ► besides besides the outlier like what's the virtue is the one that makes a case

01:31:06 ◼   ► for your phone that makes it worth like no not a case it is a phone but it's it's

01:31:10 ◼   ► a whole phone right right but it's a well but the value in it is all in the

01:31:13 ◼   ► case right the case of the phone the casing moles and I were talking about

01:31:18 ◼   ► this last week they also offer a concierge service where there's like a

01:31:22 ◼   ► a special button on the phone and then it you just hit this button and then you get like a virtue person who will be like

01:31:28 ◼   ► We want on star for your phone. Yeah. Yeah, and you're like, oh, I want to you know, I want to go to Italian restaurant tonight

01:31:33 ◼   ► Well, but I mean besides these outliers in terms of selling technology

01:31:39 ◼   ► I don't think there's ever been anything like this. No

01:31:42 ◼   ► No, you cannot think of it as a technology product. You really kid doesn't make any sense, right?

01:31:48 ◼   ► Well, but I think I think that's completely true, but I think the $349 one as a technology product is very interesting. Yeah

01:31:55 ◼   ► So it's it's almost like they're selling you know an Apple watch for 349 bucks or Apple watch sport

01:32:02 ◼   ► Whatever and then they're also entering the fashion world with this

01:32:05 ◼   ► You know all these bands and all these different cases and and it's it's two completely different

01:32:11 ◼   ► Markets. Yeah, absolutely

01:32:13 ◼   ► it's it also

01:32:18 ◼   ► I remember the day of the event, the very day of the event back in September, I met

01:32:23 ◼   ► Michael Lop in San Francisco, you know, like after he got out of work at five and we got

01:32:31 ◼   ► a drink.

01:32:32 ◼   ► And the first thing he said, and I thought it was so astute, is that it seems as though

01:32:36 ◼   ► they're launching this product three years in.

01:32:41 ◼   ► You know, that the Apple way to do it would have been the first one.

01:32:43 ◼   ► Here's the Apple Watch.

01:32:45 ◼   ► one size, one color, one style as a white band. Here's what it does. And then the next year,

01:32:50 ◼   ► they fix it and make it better, whatever. And then maybe in the third year, they say,

01:32:55 ◼   ► "Okay, this has been great. It's been a great success. Now you can get it in steel,

01:32:59 ◼   ► you can get it in gold, et cetera. Here's all these other leather bands."

01:33:02 ◼   ► Michael - Right. This is fully formed in terms of they didn't just make the watch and they didn't

01:33:07 ◼   ► just make the watch in three different cases. They made all these bands and they've done every,

01:33:13 ◼   ► they've really fine-tuned every aspect of it.

01:33:16 ◼   ► Yeah, definitely. And I think that they're going to cover an incredible gamut of price

01:33:21 ◼   ► points. I think that, you know, and I think, you know, I think 90-some percent—this is

01:33:26 ◼   ► another thing. The Wall Street Journal had this goofy story two weeks ago about some

01:33:31 ◼   ► sources in the supply chain that said that they expect to sell like 50 percent sport

01:33:36 ◼   ► and 33% steel and 16% gold. That's crazy. The more I think about it, the more I think

01:33:43 ◼   ► that whoever told them that was just, you know, like a—

01:33:46 ◼   ► Eric Bischoff Screwing with them?

01:33:47 ◼   ► Trevor Burrus Yeah, just totally screwing with them. Because

01:33:50 ◼   ► there is no way—unless it's possible that I'm completely wrong. Could be that I'm

01:33:55 ◼   ► completely wrong and the gold one is only going to cost, I don't know, $1500 or something.

01:34:00 ◼   ► It's far more in line with the $349 price.

01:34:05 ◼   ► If I'm right, though, that it's—even if I'm only right that it's $5,000, let alone

01:34:09 ◼   ► $10,000 to start, there's no way that 16% of the ones they'd sell, they're not going

01:34:13 ◼   ► to sell a million of those a month.

01:34:15 ◼   ► That's crazy town, right?

01:34:18 ◼   ► I mean, Rolex only sells—I mean, Rolex is a very secretive company, but best that anybody

01:34:24 ◼   ► can tell is Rolex sells somewhere around 600,000 watches a year.

01:34:29 ◼   ► There's some weird thing where they have to submit them to some Swiss government agency

01:34:36 ◼   ► that's officially—

01:34:37 ◼   ► Jared Ranere>> A horological society or something?

01:34:38 ◼   ► Steven

01:34:50 ◼   ► That's probably less rigorous than what Rolex themselves is

01:34:53 ◼   ► But it lets them say it's an officially certified chronometer and that because it's like a government thing

01:34:58 ◼   ► The numbers come out and it's something like Rolex certifies

01:35:01 ◼   ► 800,000 watches a year or at least they did in 2012, but that they might only sell 600,000 of them

01:35:08 ◼   ► I guess you don't get the watch certified you get the movement certified the

01:35:11 ◼   ► Okay, you know some of those might be for repairs or who knows but there's such they're almost Apple like in their secrecy and it

01:35:18 ◼   ► know, maybe it's just purposeful misdirection. Yeah, but it could be that they're, you know,

01:35:23 ◼   ► extras for repairs or whatever. But at the very least, though, long way of saying that's just a

01:35:29 ◼   ► baseline for what, you know, the world's premier luxury watchmaker sells in a year, 600,000.

01:35:35 ◼   ► Right. It's almost a ceiling. I mean, not that Apple can't sell more,

01:35:38 ◼   ► but it's a likely ceiling.

01:35:40 ◼   ► Right. And a lot of Rolex's watches do not cost more than $10,000. I mean,

01:35:44 ◼   ► And a lot of them do, but I think by volume, you know, a lot of them sell less.

01:35:48 ◼   ► So if the edition starts at $10,000, which I really do think it does, the idea that they

01:35:53 ◼   ► would sell a million of them a quarter in the first year, it just does not compute.

01:36:00 ◼   ► I mean, and this is – I think – I don't think anybody would accuse me of being a pessimist

01:36:06 ◼   ► on Apple, you know, future Apple products success, you know, possibilities.

01:36:11 ◼   ► But I'm just saying that in terms of, you know, just how the world seems to work in

01:36:16 ◼   ► terms of people who spend that kind of money on jewelry, it just seems out of scale.

01:36:21 ◼   ► So I think the Wall Street Journal is nuts.

01:36:22 ◼   ► I think the edition is going to be like – I think the company could wind up making tons

01:36:27 ◼   ► of money on them because even if only like 1 percent of the watches sold are the edition

01:36:31 ◼   ► ones, if they're 15,000 on average, that's tons of money, right?

01:36:36 ◼   ► It's 30 or 40 times – each one of them is 30 or 40 times more expensive than a sport

01:36:40 ◼   ► edition but there's no way it's gonna be that I don't think I think the vast majority of people

01:36:46 ◼   ► are gonna come in and just buy a sport as though you know like buying an iPod you know 349 bucks

01:36:52 ◼   ► boom right yeah the the market for the higher end and the highest end ones is certainly going

01:36:59 ◼   ► to be very small compared to the market for a consumer priced watch yeah yeah you know it's

01:37:07 ◼   ► You know did it and there's so many weird psychological things to it too where it's like

01:37:11 ◼   ► If they only had the one if they did what seemingly would be the more obvious route and just said here's the first Apple watch

01:37:18 ◼   ► It's three hundred forty nine dollars. It comes in these colors

01:37:21 ◼   ► That's it

01:37:21 ◼   ► And maybe you know maybe do the 38 and 42 millimeter size thing because there is sort of a they're not calling it men's and ladies

01:37:28 ◼   ► But clearly there's a sort of men's and ladies divide on average wrist size

01:37:35 ◼   ► If they did that, you know, there'd be so many people who would say wow 349 bucks for a watch, you know

01:37:40 ◼   ► You know you're going to buy a fossil watch. It's you know, $75 or whatever

01:37:44 ◼   ► There is that psychological thing where even if you don't even count the addition if you just look at the stainless steel

01:37:50 ◼   ► If it's right next to a thousand dollar watch 349 looks a lot better

01:37:55 ◼   ► Sure. Yeah

01:37:57 ◼   ► So, I don't know. I think all of that goes into the strategy that they have here

01:38:01 ◼   ► you know that if they want to sell a

01:38:04 ◼   ► zillion three hundred forty nine dollar aluminum Apple watches that it helps them to do that by

01:38:11 ◼   ► having these seemingly inexplicably more expensive if you think of them as little risk computers

01:38:16 ◼   ► right next to them well and especially because they never break break down their sales based on

01:38:23 ◼   ► model right so a quarter in or you know a year and they can say we sold you know whatever 10

01:38:29 ◼   ► million watches and if only a thousand of them are the addition watches no one's ever gonna know

01:38:34 ◼   ► yeah and I guess it'll do they break out the earnings based on I guess you could maybe

01:38:41 ◼   ► calculate calculate it that way no but they've also said though that they've even said in advance

01:38:47 ◼   ► so that nobody's disappointed that they're gonna be less transparent about the watch they're not

01:38:51 ◼   ► even gonna put the watch as a separate item they're not gonna say they're not even gonna

01:38:54 ◼   ► say we sold five million Apple watches they're gonna go wow okay they've they've created this

01:38:59 ◼   ► new other category and watch revenue will go in there. It's going to be very, very difficult

01:39:05 ◼   ► for outsiders to-

01:39:06 ◼   ► Think of anything.

01:39:07 ◼   ► Yeah. And to his credit, Tim Cook is very clear about it for the obvious reasons, it's

01:39:13 ◼   ► competitive. We don't want our competitors to know the breakdown.

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01:43:47 ◼   ► I have a surprise for you then Paul. Oh

01:43:51 ◼   ► Well, I'll tell you about it later

01:43:55 ◼   ► After the show. Yeah. Well before the end of the show before the end of the show, I won't make you wait long. All right

01:44:02 ◼   ► Are you excited about spring training?

01:44:05 ◼   ► It's too cold to be thinking about it yet seems impossible

01:44:08 ◼   ► I know and I know I'm not trying to complain to you because Philly's had a bad winner

01:44:12 ◼   ► Boston has had like

01:44:15 ◼   ► Epic like the worst winner in the history of bad winners like well, so at this point at this point

01:44:20 ◼   ► We are I just saw it today

01:44:21 ◼   ► I think we're about three and a half inches off of the all-time snowiest winter on record.

01:44:27 ◼   ► And it's only the beginning of March.

01:44:29 ◼   ► Well, but so at this point, I'm rooting for just a little bit more snow.

01:44:33 ◼   ► Like we're at like 104 inches and the record is like 107 and a half inches or something.

01:44:38 ◼   ► I want to have lived through the snowiest winter of all time.

01:44:41 ◼   ► I don't want any BS second place.

01:44:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:44:43 ◼   ► So it's been terrible for like a month and a half at this point.

01:44:47 ◼   ► It might as well be a little terrible for a little bit longer and then I'll have

01:44:51 ◼   ► something to you know put on my resume yeah especially since you can get there

01:44:55 ◼   ► with you don't even need like a bad snowstorm I mean no no talking worries

01:45:01 ◼   ► for a couple days and we'll be set yeah I mean you guys you know at this point

01:45:04 ◼   ► three four inches of snow you guys may know they may not even put that on TV

01:45:08 ◼   ► they may not even mention that now we talk in feet now and yeah it's it's been

01:45:12 ◼   ► crazy so yeah I'm not thinking about I don't know I the Red Sox I get emails

01:45:18 ◼   ► from them and I've been getting the information and I'm vaguely paying attention to it but I don't

01:45:24 ◼   ► know I don't really get into the spring training the baseball season is long enough how about that

01:45:27 ◼   ► the kid from Cuba that they signed all the 19 year old that they paid god only knows how much money

01:45:32 ◼   ► for 63 million or something like that yeah I don't know what do you think Yankee fans Yankee fans

01:45:38 ◼   ► are starting to get antsy because we've gone we've gone five years without a World Series and that's

01:45:46 ◼   ► That's right around, that's when Yankee fans start losing their shit.

01:45:50 ◼   ► And it's this, that's my hobby, that's my, I like to watch the Yankees, I don't

01:45:57 ◼   ► know if you knew that.

01:45:58 ◼   ► But one little rough similarity between the Yankees and Apple is this crazy figure who's

01:46:09 ◼   ► now dead, who haunts the organization.

01:46:11 ◼   ► The Yankees had George Steinbrenner, Apple has Steve Jobs.

01:46:15 ◼   ► And so you run into the, exactly like the this never would have happened with Steve

01:46:19 ◼   ► Jobs, you run into this never would have happened with George Steinbrenner.

01:46:22 ◼   ► And now--

01:46:23 ◼   ► - But it's his kids running the team, which is really sort of a--

01:46:26 ◼   ► - His kids, Hal and Hank, are, you know, I think they're doing an okay job.

01:46:32 ◼   ► I think it's too short of a period of time.

01:46:35 ◼   ► You've gotta, it's, you're gonna have to give them 10, 15 years before we really decide

01:46:39 ◼   ► whether they're up to snuff as owners.

01:46:43 ◼   ► But with this, what's the kid's name from Cuba?

01:46:46 ◼   ► Oh, it's like Yoann Mancato or something.

01:46:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:46:50 ◼   ► You know, and it's so many of these recent players coming out of Cuba have been so good.

01:46:55 ◼   ► There's clearly so much crazy talent, athletic baseball players coming out of Cuba.

01:47:03 ◼   ► But it's a ton of money for a kid who nobody has seen play.

01:47:06 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not saying I would have been shocked if the Yankees had outbid the Red Sox, but

01:47:10 ◼   ► I don't think it's crazy that they didn't, you know.

01:47:13 ◼   ► But a lot of Yankee fans are, you know,

01:47:15 ◼   ► George is rolling over in his grave.

01:47:17 ◼   ► And that in particular, if he had been on the fence,

01:47:21 ◼   ► there's no way he would have let the kid go

01:47:23 ◼   ► to the Red Sox.

01:47:24 ◼   ► - Right, right. - And there's,

01:47:25 ◼   ► the thing is, there might be some truth to that.

01:47:27 ◼   ► 'Cause George, the thing is, is that George Steinbrenner

01:47:31 ◼   ► made some moves that everybody agrees were terrible.

01:47:34 ◼   ► That he would insist on paying big bucks

01:47:37 ◼   ► for like an aging slugger.

01:47:38 ◼   ► and everybody in the organization would be on the record.

01:47:41 ◼   ► You know, not on the record, but like, you know,

01:47:44 ◼   ► anonymous sources within the Yankees organization

01:47:47 ◼   ► said that nobody but George wanted this guy,

01:47:50 ◼   ► but that he overruled everybody and got him anyway.

01:47:53 ◼   ► And at this point, Yankee fans are like,

01:47:56 ◼   ► they missed that guy.

01:47:57 ◼   ► They want the Yankees to make terrible mistakes

01:48:00 ◼   ► and just spend money on everybody

01:48:02 ◼   ► that they should have signed.

01:48:02 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's at least interesting.

01:48:04 ◼   ► - Right.

01:48:06 ◼   ► And that ultimately, at least they want,

01:48:09 ◼   ► if the Yankees aren't going to win,

01:48:10 ◼   ► they at least want them to be hemorrhaging cash

01:48:13 ◼   ► as they do it.

01:48:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:48:16 ◼   ► - Right, 'cause at least then they've done

01:48:17 ◼   ► as much as they can.

01:48:18 ◼   ► - Right, what more--

01:48:19 ◼   ► - At least if they're burning money.

01:48:20 ◼   ► - What more could we do?

01:48:21 ◼   ► We spent a billion dollars and we still lost,

01:48:24 ◼   ► whereas now it's starting to frustrate people

01:48:27 ◼   ► that they're not just shooting money at the problems.

01:48:31 ◼   ► - Right.

01:48:32 ◼   ► And the Yankee, we've got Alex Rodriguez back on the team.

01:48:37 ◼   ► - Oh, that's a treat for the rest of us,

01:48:40 ◼   ► I'll tell you that much.

01:48:42 ◼   ► Where do you think he's gonna wind up this year?

01:48:44 ◼   ► - I think it is either going to be,

01:48:49 ◼   ► my guess is it's going to be binary.

01:48:52 ◼   ► He's either gonna be a complete bust and unable to play

01:48:57 ◼   ► and doesn't, you know, is like off the,

01:48:59 ◼   ► they're gonna have to like cut him

01:49:00 ◼   ► and just pay him the $61 million.

01:49:02 ◼   ► Or he's actually gonna be okay.

01:49:05 ◼   ► I think he maybe he'll hit like 270, 20 home runs,

01:49:09 ◼   ► 80 RBIs as DH.

01:49:12 ◼   ► - I was at the last one I was gonna say,

01:49:13 ◼   ► you think he gets third base back or you think he's the DH?

01:49:15 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

01:49:16 ◼   ► It doesn't, it sounds,

01:49:17 ◼   ► the Yankees are prepared for him to be DH.

01:49:20 ◼   ► I mean, I think he's got a chance to play third base,

01:49:23 ◼   ► but they spend a surprising amount of money on Chase Headley.

01:49:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:49:28 ◼   ► - And clearly with the idea

01:49:29 ◼   ► they're going to need him at third base. I mean, if A-Rod can do it, I guess he will, but I don't,

01:49:33 ◼   ► nobody really seems to be expecting that. And they're also giving them, in Florida, they're

01:49:38 ◼   ► giving them a lot of reps at first base, which I think is as much about, well, we've got to do

01:49:44 ◼   ► something with them. And I think it's also like a sort of sad statement about what they expect out

01:49:50 ◼   ► of Marc Teixeira's durability, you know, that they're already planning, you know, somebody's

01:49:54 ◼   ► Somebody else is gonna have to play some first-rate.

01:49:56 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:49:58 ◼   ► - Well, I think the, what are they?

01:50:00 ◼   ► They signed him for 10 years,

01:50:01 ◼   ► and then they re-signed him for 10 years,

01:50:03 ◼   ► like four years into that contract, is that right?

01:50:05 ◼   ► - It's a very complicated contract.

01:50:07 ◼   ► It is, it's something to the effect of that, yeah.

01:50:11 ◼   ► - Well, I think the original signing, that 10-year period,

01:50:15 ◼   ► it was an incredible amount of money,

01:50:16 ◼   ► but they got a lot of value out of that.

01:50:19 ◼   ► The re-signing was where I think they went wrong.

01:50:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, definitely.

01:50:24 ◼   ► it's the second half of that new contract that is now, you know, they're paying in the 61 million for maybe nothing.

01:50:30 ◼   ► Yeah, and the the thinking the entire thinking behind the resigning was marketing driven not baseball driven

01:50:38 ◼   ► because it was all based it was before any of the PED stuff had hit obviously and it was all based on

01:50:45 ◼   ► projections of not not any kind of like

01:50:49 ◼   ► oh, we think he's gonna play like his 33-year-old self forever or his 32-year-old self, you know,

01:50:54 ◼   ► they knew he was going to go into decline and that by the end of this contract he would, you know,

01:50:58 ◼   ► be a shell of his former self. But the projections all had him at, you know,

01:51:06 ◼   ► right around Bonds' home run mark, you know, around that time and that he'd be breaking

01:51:11 ◼   ► these historic home run records, filling the stadium with people, you know, in anticipation

01:51:18 ◼   ► of him getting his 700th home run, getting his 750th home run. Whereas now, he could

01:51:25 ◼   ► break the record and people are going to throw the ball back on the field. Right? I mean,

01:51:32 ◼   ► who gives a crap about Barry Bonds' home run? That's the thing. Even if, just imagine

01:51:37 ◼   ► that he does physically come back in pretty good shape and actually does start hitting

01:51:42 ◼   ► dingers again and plays out these three years. It doesn't even matter if he breaks the record,

01:51:48 ◼   ► because nobody cares about the record anyway, because everybody thinks Bond's numbers are

01:51:52 ◼   ► tainted and then it would be broken by the guy who's the only one who might be the more notorious

01:51:58 ◼   ► user of performance-enhancing drugs. Do you even know Bond's home run number?

01:52:03 ◼   ► No, I don't even know. Ruth was 715, right?

01:52:06 ◼   ► Right. And Hank Aaron was 744, right? No, I think it was 755.

01:52:11 ◼   ► 755. All right. I knew it was a double number. Yeah.

01:52:15 ◼   ► So bonds is more than that, but I don't know. I don't know how much more.

01:52:19 ◼   ► I'm going to guess like 780. He didn't get 800. Right. I don't remember him getting another

01:52:26 ◼   ► landmark after breaking the record and 800 would have been something.

01:52:29 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I don't think it's something in the seven. It's got to be like 760.

01:52:32 ◼   ► All right. I'm going to look it up, but I'm not going to cheat. I'm going to say 7,

01:52:35 ◼   ► 770. Okay. What are you going to say?

01:52:39 ◼   ► I think it was even closer.

01:52:40 ◼   ► I think he just barely, I'm gonna go 760.

01:52:43 ◼   ► I gotta go below you, so.

01:52:44 ◼   ► - All right, hold on, career home runs.

01:52:48 ◼   ► Here we go.

01:52:49 ◼   ► This is at baseballreference.com.

01:52:51 ◼   ► - This is good podcasting, John.

01:52:55 ◼   ► - Oh, we fixed it all in post.

01:52:56 ◼   ► Let's see here.

01:53:01 ◼   ► Boy, Wikipedia makes it hard to find it too.

01:53:04 ◼   ► Home runs, 762, you're right.

01:53:07 ◼   ► He just kinda snuck past him.

01:53:10 ◼   ► He has seven more home runs than,

01:53:11 ◼   ► God, you know what would have been class,

01:53:14 ◼   ► I mean, he never would have done it.

01:53:15 ◼   ► I mean, 'cause one thing when you're talking

01:53:16 ◼   ► about Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez,

01:53:18 ◼   ► class doesn't really--

01:53:19 ◼   ► - That is not the word.

01:53:20 ◼   ► - Wouldn't it have been classy if he had stopped at 754?

01:53:24 ◼   ► - You think one less or tied?

01:53:26 ◼   ► - Or tied, yeah, even if he just stopped at the top,

01:53:28 ◼   ► yeah, even if he had just stopped at 755.

01:53:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel like tied,

01:53:32 ◼   ► maybe you could have convinced him to do it,

01:53:34 ◼   ► but one less, I don't think,

01:53:35 ◼   ► one viewer I don't think you would have gone for.

01:53:37 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:53:38 ◼   ► - All right, well what's the surprise you got for me, John?

01:53:41 ◼   ► - My surprise for you, Paul,

01:53:43 ◼   ► is that we have a fourth sponsor this week.

01:53:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:53:49 ◼   ► - All right.

01:53:50 ◼   ► - It is, and you're gonna like 'em.

01:53:51 ◼   ► I know you like these guys.

01:53:53 ◼   ► You like to play jokes with these guys.

01:53:54 ◼   ► It's our good friends at Fracture.

01:53:57 ◼   ► - All right.

01:53:58 ◼   ► Fracture Photo Swap.

01:54:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is, now this, we can talk about that.

01:54:02 ◼   ► This is a great idea for a gag.

01:54:04 ◼   ► You guys know Fracture, I talk about them.

01:54:06 ◼   ► They've been sponsoring the show all year long.

01:54:09 ◼   ► They take your photos, they print them directly on glass.

01:54:13 ◼   ► And you get a little package and it's right there.

01:54:16 ◼   ► The glass has your photo right on it.

01:54:18 ◼   ► You don't need a frame, it is a frame.

01:54:20 ◼   ► You just hang it out on a wall, you can hang it up,

01:54:22 ◼   ► you know, prop it up on your mantle or your desk.

01:54:25 ◼   ► Really clever packaging, really great image quality,

01:54:30 ◼   ► really great prices, really great customer support,

01:54:33 ◼   ► all sorts of sizes and shapes to pick from.

01:54:36 ◼   ► You could do square ones, print your favorite Instagrams,

01:54:39 ◼   ► big ones, you know, all sorts of great things.

01:54:43 ◼   ► Have you seen this ad campaign from Apple

01:54:45 ◼   ► with the, it's taken with an iPhone,

01:54:48 ◼   ► where they're showing like photos

01:54:49 ◼   ► that people have taken with their iPhone.

01:54:50 ◼   ► They're printing them on--

01:54:51 ◼   ► - Phenomenal photos.

01:54:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're phenomenal photos,

01:54:53 ◼   ► but then now it's like a billboard campaign.

01:54:55 ◼   ► Like, you just sort of forget,

01:54:58 ◼   ► like with the megapixels that you've got,

01:55:00 ◼   ► like, you know, I'm sure if you got real close,

01:55:01 ◼   ► like when you're hanging,

01:55:02 ◼   ► if you're the guy hanging the billboard,

01:55:03 ◼   ► You can see the pixels or whatever.

01:55:04 ◼   ► But you said you were in the Apple Store recently.

01:55:09 ◼   ► I was in the Apple Store just last week, a week or two ago, and they have some of these

01:55:15 ◼   ► customer iPhone user photos up in the Apple Store, big, printed, really big, like panoramas

01:55:22 ◼   ► printed big.

01:55:23 ◼   ► And it's amazing how good they look, even when you're standing right in front of them

01:55:26 ◼   ► at the wall.

01:55:27 ◼   ► You can get – go to fracture it and get the big ones with your iPhone pictures.

01:55:30 ◼   ► They'll look great.

01:55:31 ◼   ► Amazing how much detail is in an iPhone picture?

01:55:33 ◼   ► Paul you and my wife have played games with fracture this describe the fracture photo swap, right?

01:55:41 ◼   ► So fracture sponsored the podcast I do with your wife Amy

01:55:44 ◼   ► little show called just the tip and

01:55:47 ◼   ► They sponsored the show and they it was actually their idea to do this

01:55:50 ◼   ► they gave us each a coupon code and had us send a photo or photos to the other party and

01:55:56 ◼   ► We trademarked this this is now a joint trademark between just the tip enterprises and fracture

01:56:02 ◼   ► And you can participate in the fracture photo swap all you do is you get together with a friend you say I'm gonna send you

01:56:07 ◼   ► a photo you send me a photo, and you just go nuts with it and

01:56:11 ◼   ► I have you talked to pricing on this. I you haven't talked pricing it. You can do it

01:56:15 ◼   ► it's very inexpensive for the small photos and

01:56:18 ◼   ► You can have some fun with it

01:56:20 ◼   ► The only rule is that whatever you send the receiving party has to keep in their house for at least a year

01:56:25 ◼   ► So then then it becomes a real conversation piece

01:56:28 ◼   ► Which so that you need to take that into account that explains why we have a photo of Pete Rose in his underwear

01:56:36 ◼   ► His jockeys. That's right. That's right

01:56:39 ◼   ► You're welcome. Thank you Paul. It's the gift that keeps on giving

01:56:45 ◼   ► Do you think that that was based that was an ad that that while Pete Rose was playing you could google this just google was

01:56:54 ◼   ► it Pete Rose jockeys? I think that's right. Yeah, it jockey underwear. And he is he is

01:57:02 ◼   ► not an attractive man. Not even then. No, this is the height of his career in the prime

01:57:08 ◼   ► of his playing career did not really look very attractive in his jockeys. Do you think

01:57:14 ◼   ► maybe when they had that, that maybe they got the idea and they just assumed that Pete

01:57:19 ◼   ► Rose with his, you know, his jersey off would look good. Because you know, there was like,

01:57:23 ◼   ► Jim Palmer, very handsome pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles, famously did a lot of

01:57:30 ◼   ► underwear ads during his career. Very handsome man. Looked amazing. Looked certainly look better

01:57:36 ◼   ► than I've ever looked in the best day of my life in this underwear. Looked great. Looked like he

01:57:39 ◼   ► should be modeling underwear. Do you think that there's somebody at Jockey was like, "Well, we'll

01:57:43 ◼   ► get Pete Rose. He's a great player. He's going to look great. And they called him and they

01:57:50 ◼   ► came to terms and they signed a contract and then they got to see him in his joggies. That's

01:57:59 ◼   ► what I think. That's my guess as to how that came to be.

01:58:02 ◼   ► John: But they still could have saved money by not printing the ad. I mean, that's good

01:58:05 ◼   ► money after bad.

01:58:06 ◼   ► Well, anyway, my thanks to Fracture. Do the Fracture Photo Swap. It's great fun. Do whatever

01:58:14 ◼   ► you want with them. But they're a great, great company, great products, lots of fun. The

01:58:19 ◼   ► code that you want to remember is "daring fireball," all one word, "daring fireball,"

01:58:23 ◼   ► and you will save 15% on whatever it is that you order, including, I'm betting, Fracture

01:58:29 ◼   ► Photo Swap.

01:58:30 ◼   ► There you go.

01:58:31 ◼   ► One last thing. I got to go soon. We've been chatting for a while, but I wanted to talk

01:58:36 ◼   ► while I had you because I wanted to get your insight on this.

01:58:39 ◼   ► I think you're gonna give me a big fat I told you so

01:58:41 ◼   ► about app pricing.

01:58:42 ◼   ► So my-- - Oh yes.

01:58:43 ◼   ► - My friends Brent and Dave and I at Q branch,

01:58:47 ◼   ► we've just a few days ago released a new update

01:58:49 ◼   ► to our app Vesper that adds iPad support on iOS.

01:58:54 ◼   ► And coincident with that, it's a universal binary,

01:58:57 ◼   ► but we've raised the price of the app to 999, right?

01:59:02 ◼   ► I think for the next 10 days,

01:59:03 ◼   ► we're still gonna keep it at 799,

01:59:05 ◼   ► which is higher than it has been all along.

01:59:07 ◼   ► But the new default regular price

01:59:10 ◼   ► once this intro period is over is gonna be $9.99.

01:59:12 ◼   ► And I don't wanna go on a trade about it,

01:59:18 ◼   ► but just more or less that we've concluded

01:59:20 ◼   ► that the idea that you can go low,

01:59:22 ◼   ► and we've been at $2.99 for months

01:59:25 ◼   ► before this update came out,

01:59:26 ◼   ► that you can go low and make it up with quantity

01:59:30 ◼   ► because the iOS market is so big,

01:59:31 ◼   ► that it just, that just doesn't work.

01:59:34 ◼   ► or it doesn't work for the type of app that Vesper is,

01:59:37 ◼   ► which I would call like--

01:59:39 ◼   ► - A deeper app.

01:59:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, and like a productivity app.

01:59:41 ◼   ► It's not a game, it's not a gimmick.

01:59:43 ◼   ► - No, that's it, yeah.

01:59:44 ◼   ► - You know, but it's sort of, basically,

01:59:46 ◼   ► it's like the type of apps that indie developers

01:59:49 ◼   ► have been making for the Mac for decades,

01:59:51 ◼   ► now it's on iOS, like a Mac app on iOS.

01:59:54 ◼   ► And I don't think that that works.

01:59:57 ◼   ► And I mean Mac in terms of being something that you do,

01:59:59 ◼   ► like you work with it, you do things, productivity,

02:00:02 ◼   ► I don't know.

02:00:04 ◼   ► I definitely do want to say I told you so, but I think it's something where, what, six

02:00:10 ◼   ► years ago, my company released an iPhone app and we priced it at $9.99 and it didn't work.

02:00:18 ◼   ► But I felt like at least we went down swinging.

02:00:20 ◼   ► We went down at a price where we were content.

02:00:24 ◼   ► And I think, exactly like you said, trying to make it up on volume doesn't work unless

02:00:28 ◼   ► you wind up with one of the apps, you know, an Angry Birds or

02:00:33 ◼   ► that's it. It's a game. Games are different. I think games are is a totally different market and

02:00:39 ◼   ► you know, there's other apps that to me it's a different type of, it's just a different category.

02:00:47 ◼   ► I'm talking, you know, and I will also add and I don't want to be so self-centered as to presume

02:00:54 ◼   ► that Vesper is good enough that it should be making more money. So let's

02:01:00 ◼   ► just leave Vesper out. Maybe the problem is that Vesper isn't original enough.

02:01:03 ◼   ► Maybe the, you know, the problem is Vesper. The eye-opening thing to me was

02:01:06 ◼   ► in Panics' annual letter that they published on their blog back in early

02:01:13 ◼   ► January where Cable Sasser just flat-out said, you know, and they had a great year.

02:01:17 ◼   ► They had so many apps that came out, Mac and iOS, and they had iOS versions of

02:01:23 ◼   ► at coda the mini coda whatever they call coda like coda diet coda diet coda oh

02:01:29 ◼   ► what a great name that is can't believe it drew a blank on that they have their

02:01:33 ◼   ► terminal app prompt prompt great great stuff transmit for iOS transmit for iOS

02:01:41 ◼   ► which is a phenomenal app really really well done it's everything you close your

02:01:46 ◼   ► eyes you think well what would panic do if they did transmit for iOS and your

02:01:49 ◼   ► mind starts running wild with how you know detailed it would be well that's

02:01:52 ◼   ► That's exactly what it is. It's a remarkable, remarkable app. And truly, a Mac caliber app

02:01:59 ◼   ► in terms of the scope of what it does. It's a full-featured file transfer app for a whole

02:02:04 ◼   ► bunch of great services. And in their annual letter, Cable FlatOut said that the revenue

02:02:13 ◼   ► that they're making from these iOS apps doesn't justify the engineering expense of making

02:02:20 ◼   ► these apps compared to the revenue they get from the same amount of work on the Mac apps.

02:02:25 ◼   ► Right. Doing the same amount of work on the Mac is going to pay so much better than it

02:02:30 ◼   ► does on iOS.

02:02:31 ◼   ► Right. And there's no, you know, I mean, there are two different platforms, but in terms

02:02:34 ◼   ► of which, you know, how much it costs to pay for a talented engineer to spend, you know,

02:02:40 ◼   ► eight to ten hours tomorrow coding for it, it's the same, right? You don't get, you know,

02:02:46 ◼   ► If anything, iOS developers are more in demand, right?

02:02:51 ◼   ► It's even harder to hire them.

02:02:55 ◼   ► That to me was an eye-opener to me that if Panic is saying, "Hey, something funny is

02:03:00 ◼   ► going on on iOS because we're not getting the bang for our buck.

02:03:05 ◼   ► We have to think about how we're going to do this because we can't justify this because

02:03:08 ◼   ► if we put these resources toward the Mac, we'd be making more money."

02:03:13 ◼   ► me as an eye-opener because those apps are fantastic. I mean, I'm too close to Vesper

02:03:19 ◼   ► to judge Vesper objectively, but I can judge Panix apps objectively and they are best of breed.

02:03:26 ◼   ► Yeah, and yeah, I've got it right in front of me. Basically, they had a 50/50 split for iOS

02:03:31 ◼   ► versus Mac sales, and then the Mac was 83% of their revenue. So, I mean, just in terms of the

02:03:38 ◼   ► way the numbers work, yeah, you certainly should be devoting more of your resources to the Mac.

02:03:42 ◼   ► And that's unfortunate because iOS is a fun platform. It's an interesting platform to be

02:03:47 ◼   ► developing for. But right now, the money just isn't there.

02:03:50 ◼   ► Darrell Bock Yeah. And I think that we're starting to see it now. Like to me,

02:03:53 ◼   ► eight years in, I guess it's eight or seven years, I guess seven years since the App Store.

02:03:59 ◼   ► It's long enough. And the devices, you know, Moore's Law has had its effect. Like, our current

02:04:06 ◼   ► iPhones and iPads are so powerful. The current iPads are clearly on par with the Macbooks

02:04:15 ◼   ► of the time when the iPhone came out. I mean, the devices aren't limiting them. But I really

02:04:21 ◼   ► think that for seven years in, there's a dearth of what I would call – just name any of

02:04:27 ◼   ► your favorite indie Mac apps from the last 20 years. And we're not seeing them get developed

02:04:33 ◼   ► on iOS. I mean, not that there's none, but that we're just not seeing as many as we should.

02:04:37 ◼   ► Well, and I wonder if... definitely there are people inside of Apple who are aware of

02:04:44 ◼   ► this, but I wonder if the people who can do something about it are blinded by the fact

02:04:49 ◼   ► that there are these phenomenal success stories where companies come out of nowhere and suddenly

02:04:54 ◼   ► make millions upon millions of dollars because they have this hit 99 cent app, but it disguises

02:04:59 ◼   ► the fact that so many developers try and fail and move on and just can't really make a living

02:05:06 ◼   ► at it, let alone a good living at it.

02:05:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

02:05:11 ◼   ► And part of it, and because we could go on for an hour, just about the App Store angle,

02:05:16 ◼   ► but part of it is clearly just that having to go through the App Store limits iOS development

02:05:22 ◼   ► in certain ways.

02:05:23 ◼   ► But let's ignore that for now.

02:05:24 ◼   ► I think it's safe to ignore it.

02:05:27 ◼   ► There's something more to it than that.

02:05:28 ◼   ► Like, Rogue Amoeba, you guys don't have any iOS apps right now, right?

02:05:33 ◼   ► We've got two small companion apps to our Mac apps because that's what we felt has been

02:05:38 ◼   ► the most valuable thing to do is to expend our resources on the Mac.

02:05:42 ◼   ► And we certainly want to be involved on iOS.

02:05:45 ◼   ► Like I said, it's an exciting platform.

02:05:47 ◼   ► But if the money's not there, we'd rather have them be a companion to a Mac app.

02:05:51 ◼   ► So here's a free Airfoil Speakers, which works with our app Airfoil.

02:05:55 ◼   ► you pay for the airfoil app on the Mac and you get the iOS app for free.

02:05:59 ◼   ► And it's not necessarily the best way to do things, but it's the way that we found works.

02:06:04 ◼   ► I knew I remembered it.

02:06:06 ◼   ► I remembered Airfoil.

02:06:07 ◼   ► I didn't even think of it as an app because it's not, you know what I mean?

02:06:09 ◼   ► Like to me, it's not an app.

02:06:10 ◼   ► It's a thing on your phone that it's just part of using Airfoil.

02:06:14 ◼   ► Right exactly.

02:06:15 ◼   ► So effectively, yeah, effectively you guys that were treating the iPhone the way that

02:06:20 ◼   ► like it's like the Apple watch, right?

02:06:22 ◼   ► just this little thing where you've got apps for it and you've written code for it, but it's really

02:06:26 ◼   ► just a peripheral to the main thing. Yeah, exactly. And that works, but I would love to see the sort

02:06:37 ◼   ► of thing that you're talking about where you have a first-class application experience on the phone

02:06:41 ◼   ► or on the iPad, and we can devote our resources to that and then charge $10, $20, $30, which is what

02:06:48 ◼   ► you need to charge in terms of the volume that you're going to see on an average product

02:06:53 ◼   ► because you can't make enough money selling it for $0.99 or $2.99 or even $4.99.

02:06:58 ◼   ► And I think if I'm not mistaken in the panic letter that they sent out

02:07:03 ◼   ► that they posted on their blog, they also mentioned talking about discounted upgrades.

02:07:08 ◼   ► And that's a big thing that I think the app stores are lacking and have been lacking.

02:07:13 ◼   ► you need to either charge full price for version 2 or that's really pretty much your only option besides giving it away.

02:07:21 ◼   ► And upgrade revenue is definitely a way that for 20 or 30 years now, companies have been selling software and making money.

02:07:30 ◼   ► And it encourages companies to make a version 2 and a version 3 and not have to worry,

02:07:35 ◼   ► "Oh, we got to sell all over to people." When they can just say, "Hey, this new version has a bunch of new features.

02:07:40 ◼   ► of new features, we think you're going to like it. Because you bought the first version,

02:07:44 ◼   ► you get a big discount on it, but we still get a little bit of revenue. They don't just

02:07:47 ◼   ► have to live off the revenue from the first product or try and sell a whole new product.

02:07:51 ◼   ► And I think not having that really sort of stunts the ability to make deeper products

02:07:57 ◼   ► and longer term products.

02:07:58 ◼   ► Yeah. I'll borrow, to tie the whole show together, bring it full circle, I'll borrow a term from

02:08:03 ◼   ► the watch world. There's a term in the watch world, a tool watch. So for example, like

02:08:07 ◼   ► a diver watch, a watch that can go 300 meters underwater, which you think about as terrifying.

02:08:14 ◼   ► That's an extraordinary depth. Watches that are meant to be treated roughly to work or

02:08:23 ◼   ► chronometer watches that race car drivers would wear and actually use to time their racing and

02:08:32 ◼   ► and stuff like that.