0:00:00you ever get the feeling like maybe Yosemite isn't fully baked occasionally
0:00:04so yeah so i went back in and i futzed with my input volume and i think it's
0:00:10i think it might have been that i don't know i also restarted and did about 10 other things so i
0:00:14can't tell exactly and the worst part is you just you just recorded a show two hours ago
0:00:20and everything exactly yeah i don't know what happened i i i did unplug and plug stuff back
0:00:26in but that shouldn't happen. I really cannot explain it. Now there's a new Skype 7 out
0:00:34and I'm definitely afraid to. Oh my god no. You should just like keep one machine in pristine
0:00:40working condition and never unplug anything or restart it. That's sort of what I do with
0:00:46my MacBook Air. Like I haven't upgraded it to Yosemite. I'm being like old man conservative
0:00:52You know, like if it ain't broke,
0:00:54don't fix it with this machine.
0:00:56And it's still, you know,
0:00:58and I don't update new versions of Skype,
0:01:01and it still gives me problems.
0:01:02You know, like trying to be real conservative
0:01:04about what I do with the software
0:01:05on this particular machine,
0:01:07it doesn't seem to make a difference.
0:01:10- I upgrade everything.
0:01:13(laughs)
0:01:15I have very little discipline.
0:01:22- Did you run, so you run, so you have another machine
0:01:23you ran the beta on and stuff like that?
0:01:26- Yeah, it's been very complicated.
0:01:29It's been complicated the last few months
0:01:30because I've had, I had from Apple,
0:01:35and this wasn't just like a special treat
0:01:37for John Gruber thing, it was,
0:01:39a lot of us got it.
0:01:43They gave us review units at WWDC,
0:01:45like it was a 15 inch MacBook Pro
0:01:47with Yosemite already installed.
0:01:49'Cause they actually wanted us to be, you know,
0:01:51write about it yeah serious so I had that right yeah he might have he might
0:02:02have needed he might have needed five but you know they gave him they gave him
0:02:06an iPhone I don't know if you listen to ATP but he got an iPhone 6 so that he
0:02:14not to review the iPhone 6 but so he could write about continuity features
0:02:20which was actually really really awesome that he you know there's a big help to
0:02:24him you know they've been very helpful at stuff like that but that machine is
0:02:29gone but now I'm down to two machines I've got a new 13-inch MacBook Pro and
0:02:34I've already you know I've started life you know I just got it like a month ago
0:02:38it started on Yosemite it's never seen anything but and in my old MacBook Air I
0:02:42just keep running minus one I had to get my wife needed a new machine and I had
0:02:47to make sure I got it before Yosemite came on everything
0:02:50because she would freak.
0:02:52- You think so?
0:02:55- She doesn't like me to change her operating system.
0:02:58- No?
0:02:59Oh, we've had this discussion before too,
0:03:01but she doesn't like it either.
0:03:02Like you'll walk by like her iPhone or whatever
0:03:04and like there'll be like a badge,
0:03:06like on the app store.
0:03:07- Oh yeah, that.
0:03:08Oh my God.
0:03:09- 57 apps.
0:03:10- Oh my God, that thing.
0:03:11- Do you update your apps automatically?
0:03:16Do you have the app store set?
0:03:17See, I don't have it set to update automatically,
0:03:19but I do like OCD, like every time there's updates,
0:03:24I install them.
0:03:25But the reason I don't do it automatically
0:03:27is I wanna know when there's new ones
0:03:28and I like to read the release notes.
0:03:30- Well, that's probably safer.
0:03:31- And just in case, you know,
0:03:35I can't remember the last time that I've had like an app
0:03:40that I didn't wanna update.
0:03:41It's been years, you know,
0:03:42But just in case there's some kind of regression in an app.
0:03:50Yeah.
0:03:50It happens.
0:03:51It does definitely happen.
0:03:54Right, like the equivalent of what they did with pages
0:03:57and the iWork suite on Mac going from online to whatever
0:04:02they call the new ones.
0:04:03Yeah, and basically some of that is just
0:04:05because of the way the app store worked, the approval process.
0:04:09Because normally developers would just roll back
0:04:12something that was you know there was a glitch in it or something and they can't
0:04:16they can't do that it's got it's you know they have to they have to resubmit
0:04:20all right yeah complicated you know I noticed on while I'm talking about pages
0:04:26I my big complaint and the thing that I could not stand about the update to
0:04:31pages in particular is that for the few things I use word processing for like
0:04:37for example with sponsors sometimes you know if I send them an invoice I have a
0:04:41pages template and it's really nice I've got nice typography on it and for years
0:04:46now maybe even ten years Mac OS X has had wonderful built-in system level
0:04:51typography so that like an open type font that has small caps and alternate
0:04:59you know the figures the the old style figures where the numbers drop below the
0:05:04baseline or sometimes go above the baseline and you can system wide you
0:05:10You could just open TextEdit, the free text, just the replacement for simple text.
0:05:15Go to the Fonts panel, open the Typography panel, and you get this wonderful typography
0:05:20controls.
0:05:21And my templates were all set up with small caps for certain things and stuff like that.
0:05:26And pages, the new version of pages last year, the 2013 version, dropped support for all
0:05:31of that in the name of compatibility with iOS, which doesn't have any of those typography
0:05:37features anymore.
0:05:39So I stuck with the pages, like pages in particular, I stuck with the 09 version.
0:05:43Like numbers, I don't know.
0:05:44I don't know what the, I'm such a simpleton using a spreadsheet that
0:05:50I didn't notice anything worse in numbers.
0:05:54So I used the new version of numbers, but I used the old version of pages.
0:05:57But I noticed with the latest version of pages, it is so complicated.
0:06:01They had an update with Yosemite, and
0:06:05I opened it hoping that the typography stuff was back.
0:06:08it's not like you create a new document in pages and you have a font that has
0:06:13true small caps not like the fake you know fakie fake small caps but real
0:06:17small caps there's no way to turn text into small caps in the new version of
0:06:22pages but if you open in a pages o9 document in the new version of pages and
0:06:28you already have small caps it now still supports it it doesn't make it go away
0:06:33So it and it seems like what you can do it doesn't I I didn't get into it too
0:06:40deep but it seems like what you can do is you can open a new version in pages
0:06:43you can switch to text edit and make your text in you know use the advanced
0:06:49OS X typography features copy and paste it go back to pages and paste and it
0:06:54works. That's weird. So so it's really really like it it you know it's like it
0:07:00It seems like they're making some kind of progress on that front, but it's actually
0:07:03more complicated than it was a year ago when it was just a simple answer, "No, you can't
0:07:08use those features anymore."
0:07:12It's like that whole thing they did with iMovie years ago.
0:07:15Yeah, yeah, when they switched from being a sort of very basic, traditional, non-linear
0:07:22video editor to whatever it was.
0:07:25Right.
0:07:26We haven't seen that guy recently.
0:07:29Yeah, it's a lot of reason. What's that guy's name?
0:07:31Randy you will us. Yeah, it's Randy still there
0:07:34You know, I thought he may not be there anymore. That's a very good question
0:07:40I I heard something about him possibly leaving not like out of any you know that he was in trouble, but sort of
0:07:46You know that he'd been there he'd been you know
0:07:49Burned out, you know that you know that
0:07:51You know just had been there on major major software projects for years and years and he might not be there
0:07:57I'm not sure it's a good question. Anybody who knows a little birdies
0:08:00You can tell me and then I'll do it. I'm sure Randy listens to the show
0:08:03You know, you'd be surprised actually I mean that was half joke but half not joke. All right, I
0:08:09Actually got a very nice email from somebody at Comcast from the show with my last week
0:08:15It was actually very very nice email somebody is you know seems to be a true fan of the show and they said that they
0:08:22Were they were half laughing half crying. Oh, man
0:08:25the first hour of this show.
0:08:28They've since been fired.
0:08:31The ATP guys had a good bit about--
0:08:35no, he was not the guy.
0:08:36The guy who I want to hear from is
0:08:38I want to hear from the guy who made that graphic.
0:08:40I want to hear the story of how that graphic came.
0:08:47No, but the ATP guys had a good bit about the way
0:08:51that the iWorks apps regressed feature-wise,
0:08:54and comparing and contrast that with Microsoft, which never takes features away. If Word ever
0:09:01gains advanced typography features, you can bank on it that it's never going to lose them
0:09:06in the future. The other thing that they brought up, and this to me is so crazy, it's like
0:09:13I cannot believe that it's true, and I didn't even know it. I actually have it marked to
0:09:18do more research on it and link it up from Daring Fireball. But apparently, the new version
0:09:22of at least pages but maybe it's the whole iWorks suite, no longer reads documents, iWorks
0:09:30documents that are older than the versions created by the 09 versions.
0:09:33Jared Polin Really?
0:09:34So, like, yeah.
0:09:36So like pages, like the oldest pages document you can open now and then current version
0:09:42of pages is from pages 09.
0:09:44Anything created with a version of pages earlier than pages 09 will no longer open in pages
0:09:49which is crazy.
0:09:50crazy because I was about to delete the old version you know the o9 version
0:09:55because it puts that stuff in a folder and I was thinking I can just get rid of
0:09:59that I work o9 folder it's not no no it's crazy or at the very least and it
0:10:05sounds like such it's such busy work but you really like the sensible idea you
0:10:11know what you really need to do is find every single I works document that you
0:10:14have and open it in like if make sure see if you have seriously this is what
0:10:22you we would have to do what we will have to do is is open up every version
0:10:26any document we can find that's older than oh nine and make sure it's saved as
0:10:31oh nine at the very least I'll have to go back I'm sure I've got some someplace
0:10:35but I don't probably can't find them right now to try it but I will make sure
0:10:40I'm gonna add a note and put that into show notes and I will have a link where
0:10:44everybody can do that but I got to write from it from term but it's so crazy and
0:10:47they you know the ATP can rightly point it out that for that is exactly like
0:10:52where Microsoft is so great because like you just know I'm like you know that
0:10:58word today like go by the latest version of Microsoft Word you know it opens a
0:11:04DOS Word 1.0 document no well you know that it does why would you bet against
0:11:10I'm not against that at all.
0:11:12- Right?
0:11:13- I could probably test that too, actually.
0:11:15- Right.
0:11:16Like if you'd set up like a 1984,
0:11:20like PC running like DOS 2
0:11:23and like the first version of Microsoft Word for DOS,
0:11:25I don't even know what,
0:11:26maybe DOS came out later in 1984,
0:11:29whatever the first year that DOS had a Microsoft Word,
0:11:33create a document and save it.
0:11:35I guarantee you that that document will open
0:11:37with full fidelity in today's Microsoft Word.
0:11:40- Did you use Word back in the day?
0:11:45- No, I was always a Mac write man.
0:11:48- Oh, okay, Mac write.
0:11:50- Okay, yeah.
0:11:52- Yeah, I used Word until, what was it, Word six
0:11:55where they screwed everything up.
0:11:56And then I started using Word Perfect.
0:12:00- On a Mac?
0:12:02- Yeah. - Really?
0:12:03- Yeah, my wife and I used Word Perfect for years,
0:12:06even like long after it had been basically forgotten.
0:12:11- I don't even know if I ever even used WordPerfect
0:12:14on the map.
0:12:15- It was kind of nice and it was pretty,
0:12:17I guess the thing was it was always popular.
0:12:19WordPerfect was huge in the legal community, I think,
0:12:23if I remember correctly for some reason.
0:12:25And then Word was like everywhere else.
0:12:28And yeah, it was a big problem for a lot of,
0:12:33I think and that's kind of what drove a lot of people
0:12:36to switch to PCs because it's like they were using Word
0:12:41and they had to switch to Word anyway.
0:12:43And so they're using Word Perfect
0:12:45and they had to switch to on a Mac
0:12:46and they had to switch to Word anyway.
0:12:48And so they're like, well, I might as well just switch.
0:12:51I gotta buy a license.
0:12:52So I'm just gonna go buy a PC.
0:12:55- One thing from that era was that there were no demos
0:12:59for commercial software
0:13:01and the commercial software was very expensive.
0:13:04So your only options were to pirate it
0:13:07or spend a significant amount of money.
0:13:09Like probably, I'm guessing like a WordPerfect for Mac
0:13:14was probably like $149.
0:13:17- Oh, that was like the student license.
0:13:20- Yeah, maybe even $199.
0:13:22- They were really expensive.
0:13:24- That's like $1990, which is,
0:13:28it's long enough ago that inflation has some--
0:13:32We were still using the gold standard back then.
0:13:37You could take that dollar and exchange it for gold with the government.
0:13:43No, I was always a MacRight man.
0:13:47Part of it maybe was just that I don't think I had to pay for it.
0:13:49I think because at Drexel, we had like a university-wide site license for everything from Claris.
0:13:56You could just go to the student center and at least my first couple of years, like the
0:14:02early 90s, like 91, 92, you'd go to the student center with blank floppies and there was a
0:14:07machine where you would just put them in and it would one by one, you'd say, "I want the
0:14:13whole Claris suite."
0:14:14I forget what else they had, but it was like MacWrite and something else.
0:14:20We had Excel though because there wasn't a Claris spreadsheet at the time and we had
0:14:25university-wide site license for Excel too and you would just go there with you
0:14:29know you all you had to do is bring your own floppies and you bring your own
0:14:32floppies and you'd get like officially licensed install disks for Excel and Mac
0:14:37right you know I always like my current I can remember not getting getting
0:14:43unofficially licensed shop onto a floppy disk yeah it's crazy that it is
0:14:54is absolutely crazy which was like 1.44 megabytes if it was double density high
0:14:59density right there was like the original floppy okay you know that now
0:15:07there were 400 K one Syracuse a Syracuse it always dings me on this because I've
0:15:12whenever we go retro on this show I always say that they started at 800 but
0:15:16No, like 1984's Max had 400k 3.5 inch floppies and then the 800 was for a while.
0:15:26So that was a middle step.
0:15:27I think the 800 were called double density and then high density.
0:15:31The 1.4, high density.
0:15:34Ran out of numbers.
0:15:35Remember you could take a double density, the 800k one, and if you punched a hole in
0:15:41the corner you could it that the floppy drive would treat it as a high-density
0:15:47what yeah because there was like two for backwards compatibility the way that
0:15:53they did it was the high-density the ones that were you know 1.4 megabyte
0:16:00capacity were the exact same form factor as the 800k ones so you could put it in
0:16:05the same drive but the way the drive would recognize that it was high-density
0:16:09is that the high density ones had a hole in the corner.
0:16:14And if you took like it was that people may I don't know if you could just use a hole
0:16:19punch but there was like a thing that people made you could buy that you would you would
0:16:22punch a hole in an 800k disc and then the drive would treat it as a high density one
0:16:29even though like the manufacturer hadn't like made it for that like that's how loose and
0:16:34loosey-goosey we were with our data back then. Needless to say those floppies
0:16:41sometimes had a little bit of a problem. No, that's how the world worked
0:16:46back then. And you could fit, you had to be able to fit an app on one disk. I
0:16:50guess you could, there were installers for bigger software where the
0:16:55software would run across multiple disks and it would be like a zip file or the
0:17:01Equivalent that was spread across multiple. Yeah, right. Yeah. I remember that. I remember that you could you could use store
0:17:08you could use stuff it to
0:17:10spread them across multiple
0:17:12Disks I had this is a dumb story, but I'm gonna tell it anyway
0:17:16I found my so I my son loves playing with the old computers. They've got lying around cuz like, you know cuz I'm a hoarder and
0:17:22There we have got I we still got a perform a 6400 and we came we were down in the basement
0:17:29We came across a box full of zip disks and he's like oh, it's like what are these?
0:17:33I'll just we should try these and so so we went through this ridiculous process because so I was like, okay
0:17:39We'll get the zip I still have the zip drive. So we get the zip drive out and plug it into the
0:17:436400 we start the 6400 up and
0:17:47There's a password on it and I can't remember what the password is. And so, okay, that's fine
0:17:53There's a way around that and the way is like if you boot off of something else you can get
0:17:58You can get in and just delete. This is the high security on OS 9. She could just delete a file in the in the
0:18:05In the systems the preferences folder go into the system folder go to the preferences folder
0:18:11You just delete a file and then restart that's fine, but you got to start with something else
0:18:14Well that model won't start off a floppy disk so you have to start off a CD drive
0:18:18Well the CD drive was broken in the 6400
0:18:22so
0:18:24You know and I don't know why I get this compulsion to do this, but I'm like I got to solve this problem now
0:18:28It's like not only do I have to solve this problem. I gotta stay up late solving this problem
0:18:33So I pull the drive the hard drive
0:18:366400 and I take it up and I put it in my my power Mac my g4 power Mac
0:18:43As an extra drive start up delete the file
0:18:46take it back down put it back in the 6400 and
0:18:50And as I'm putting it back in the 6400
0:18:53and reconnecting everything,
0:18:54I have the zip drive sitting on top of the 6400
0:18:59and just down in the basement where there's cement floor
0:19:02and I knock the zip drive off and I break the zip drive.
0:19:05I went through this huge process and in the end,
0:19:09I destroyed the thing that I was trying
0:19:11to connect to the Mac.
0:19:12- So you bought the zip drive?
0:19:16- Well, now I'm looking at new zip drives.
0:19:19So I'm in the market for a new zip drive.
0:19:21Now, I did look on eBay and it's like 15, 20 bucks
0:19:26to get an old zip drive and I was like, what am I doing?
0:19:29At the point where it actually came to shelling out money.
0:19:31My time is worthless, but my money is not.
0:19:34(both laughing)
0:19:36- Exactly, like you easily burned 10 times that in time.
0:19:41You easily burned hundreds of dollars worth of hours.
0:19:46Like imagine if somebody commissioned you
0:19:50to write an article that would take that long
0:19:52and then they said, and it pays $15.
0:19:55You'd be like, no, no thank you.
0:19:57Right, but when it came time to actually give somebody
0:20:0015 bucks for an old zip drive, it was like,
0:20:02oh man, no way am I wasting money on that.
0:20:04- So I actually had caused to use Word recently,
0:20:09speaking of the price of Word and being able to get
0:20:15license because you could just get it like an office 360 license for
0:20:18You can pay but pay by the month and it's like seven bucks a month or something like that
0:20:23for just the regular
0:20:25Yeah, I mean so there's no for the Mac version. There's no like enterprise stuff. There's no access
0:20:30that I saw that that this week and that they you know the news, you know
0:20:36The big news story this week from Microsoft was I mean, I don't know if it was within the last week
0:20:41But that they've made the the mobile versions of the office apps
0:20:46free to use like pretty much
0:20:49No, sir the basic functionality of it. Yes, but it's read, you know read read write
0:20:56Yeah, like they I think before it was like you could read documents, but you couldn't write them
0:20:59And now you can edit them and you can't do track changes
0:21:04And probably a couple letter. I mean, I'm sure there's some other stuff but the big one
0:21:08I think that people often use as track changes and right you have to pay for a license for
0:21:13And that's and they came out with Android versions - oh is that we missed that part of that story that's interesting
0:21:20Uh, I think so. I mean, I mean, I think they definitely and said that they were going to do that
0:21:27and
0:21:29There was some there was somebody I saw somebody retweeted. Yeah, okay an executive from Google saying can't wait to see the versions for Android
0:21:37Yeah, Microsoft Office Mobile is the official Office companion optimized for your Android
0:21:43phone.
0:21:44You can access, view, and edit your Microsoft Word, Excel, and I'm guessing it's ..
0:21:49Yeah.
0:21:50Yeah, they have Android versions.
0:21:54It seems, you know, that – and again, you know, with Microsoft, it's like almost the
0:22:01same boat as with Apple with, you know, what would they have done if the old CEO was still
0:22:06except you know balmer isn't dead but it does seem though but this it does seem
0:22:11though that this is a balmer had to go for this now yeah type of thing like and
0:22:19and it makes you wonder how different Microsoft's position in mobile might have
0:22:25been if they had done years ago right like what if they had done it in 2009 at
0:22:33least for iOS because let's face it but in 2009 Android wasn't good as a platform wasn't
0:22:39good enough for stuff like office but if at least for the iPhone they had done it then
0:22:47and then in 2010 when the iPad came out they would have already been on iOS and that could
0:22:52have you know if the iPad had debuted in a world where there's already a functional Microsoft
0:23:00Office Suite, that could have really changed their status overall in the post PC world.
0:23:09Yeah, I'm just wondering if it really, with so much, I mean, because the Office products
0:23:14aren't really tied into the way that people work as much as they used to be.
0:23:23So much of our things that we produce are for the web, and Office apps are not, applications
0:23:30are not really used for web production.
0:23:33Well for us that's true, and I suspect it's true for a lot of the people who listen to
0:23:38like our shows, but my test for what goes on in the real world is always the snooping
0:23:44I do in airports, you know, not snooping, but you know, looking over, what's this guy,
0:23:49You know, as I go to the bathroom on the plane, just look at what's on people's screens.
0:23:53That's what I do.
0:23:55And I've noticed a lot.
0:23:57I've mentioned this before, but I see it over and over again.
0:23:59I noticed a lot of business people who, you know, just judging by their attire and judging
0:24:04by the fact that they have PCs and that a lot of times I see PowerPoint and Excel.
0:24:12I see an awful lot of Excel.
0:24:13and I also see a lot of Outlook email,
0:24:17like Windows Outlook.
0:24:19And then I see them an hour and a half into the flight,
0:24:25they fold up the laptop and then they take out an iPad
0:24:29for the rest of the flight.
0:24:30I see it over and over and over again.
0:24:33Right, it's like they wanna get caught up on their email
0:24:37or they're working on a thing in Excel
0:24:40and as soon as they're done with it,
0:24:42For you know when it's time to like relax they go to an iPad. Yeah, you sure they're not just popping the keyboard off their surface
0:24:49You know what it's funny I
0:24:53We can make fun of the surface, but I've seen more and more of them in the world
0:24:58I haven't definitely am it's no longer a fluke
0:25:00Well, I don't think it's selling great, but it's not it's not as
0:25:04All right much. It's not quite a punch line. Yes to be
0:25:09It's I see more of them than I see people using Windows phones
0:25:13And again, maybe I'm now maybe it's just easier to notice because people if I see someone using a surface
0:25:19it's pretty easy to identify it as a surface and
0:25:22It's it's kind of hard to tell what phone somebody's using right? You can usually tell iPhone right phone
0:25:29Right from the back without seeing the screen. It's you can usually tell iPhone or not iPhone
0:25:34But if it's a not iPhone who the hell knows what it is
0:25:37Unless you can see the screen but on the other hand if you can see the screen Windows Phone is so distinctive
0:25:42Ui-wise, I think it's pretty easy. Yeah
0:25:45And I don't see many of them I see a lot more surface. Yep tablets
0:25:50Did you see the whole thing where?
0:25:53Where the the election night the CNN anchors were
0:25:58Were paid to use surfaces have and then right just sort of like pretty much exactly like they've done with the NFL
0:26:07all for like a year or two where every they've they've like carpet bombed the
0:26:13all the NFL studio teams you know like where they let's go back halftime let's
0:26:19get here the halftime report and everybody in the studio has a surface in
0:26:23front of them well on it and CNN shots where you could tell that they're their
0:26:29surfaces were being used to pop up an iPad it's so stand everybody loves the
0:26:36kickstand. Right. Makes a great stand for your iPad. I really do mean this. I think
0:26:42as like a marketing move that's actually worse. It was overall the overall net effect of that
0:26:49campaign that was actually worse. Because I think there were more people who noticed
0:26:54you know who caught on to the you know they were actually propping up iPads angle than
0:26:58who noticed you know from TV like hey it looks like a Microsoft Surface. It's actually worse.
0:27:06I think it actually hurts their efforts
0:27:08'cause it makes it seem like their product's a joke.
0:27:11- I'm actually in the, I might be in the market for a PC
0:27:16'cause my son who likes to play games
0:27:19and has most of his buddies are PC users.
0:27:23He's got like this identification thing now
0:27:25where he wants to get a PC.
0:27:28And it's like some of the Minecraft stuff
0:27:32is actually a little bit easier to manage
0:27:35because some of the on a PC because the installers are specific installers that are written for
0:27:41Windows instead of other clients and where they're less they're more generic on the Mac and Linux.
0:27:49So so the it's an it's a weird problem to have to be in this in that market because
0:27:57I can't figure out what I mean I have no idea what to get like trying to find a laptop a Windows
0:28:04laptop that is you know with my with my Mac standard it's really difficult
0:28:10there's nothing of the same quality at least not in the same kind of price
0:28:16range most of the stuff is plastic and the higher-end stuff like there's the
0:28:22razor blade is supposed to be a great gaming laptop PC but he wants a laptop
0:28:28yeah well I think he should have a laptop yeah he'd like to yeah I mean he
0:28:33moves around a lot and and you know you'd like to take it with him when we
0:28:38travel and stuff like that so but the razor blade starts at like 1900 bucks
0:28:43and I'm not gonna give you know he's gonna spill like a like a $1,900 $1,900
0:28:49for start starting price for a razor blade yeah it's a nice looking computer
0:28:54I mean it's like it's like a black you know it looks like a I say that I I just
0:28:59realized that I said that like I was totally offended and I just I just blew
0:29:02I just blew like thirty five hundred dollars on my my MacBook Pro
0:29:06Which I didn't blink at because I know that it's an excellent machine and it's made of aluminum and as an SSD and a retina
0:29:13Screen and it's from Apple and it's really nice and I just assumed that the nicest PC there is couldn't possibly
0:29:18I realized that's that that was a very
0:29:22biased
0:29:25No, I can totally you know, you don't buy a ten-year-old
0:29:28No, I'm not buying a 19 or a laptop and then the other ones are the alien the alienwares are supposedly decent gaming laptops
0:29:35but they start 11 like $1,100 and
0:29:38I don't know they're big clunky, you know there
0:29:42So it wouldn't you know, I'm not sure if this is this experiment is going to take or not
0:29:48Do you you don't think though that?
0:29:53What's it called when you reboot a Mac into Windows boot camp boot camp is not the solution
0:29:59Well, he needs a new machine because he's using an old he's using my old MacBook Pro, which is like a 2010
0:30:06Alright, and he's you know, he's banged it up pretty
0:30:10Well, and the truth is I mean I I mean among you know, there's what there's video editing
0:30:18I mean, there's a few things that that work wise really push a machine these days
0:30:21But gaming it's always going to be at
0:30:24Always I mean until the end of our lives. It's gonna you know, there's never gonna be
0:30:30decrease in pushing the limits of computing, you know and then gain, you know, a four-year-old computer in the gaming world is ancient
0:30:38combine that with the fact that
0:30:40MacBooks aren't exactly known for being optimized for gaming in the first place when they're brand new and you can really you know
0:30:46I can see how it's a problem. Yeah, I mean so I could get you know, I could get like a
0:30:51dollar Lenovo that has a nice video card in it. I mean the thing is made out of
0:30:58plastic the outside is terrible but it comes with 8 gigs of RAM and it's got a
0:31:03good video card in it. Well hold that thought let's come back to this. Yeah.
0:31:07Take a break and thank our first sponsor but we'll come back to this because it
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0:34:53All right, so to me, your story about not knowing
0:34:59what to get for Hank for a PC is,
0:35:04I feel the exact same way and I feel like it's just one of those, it's a chasm between
0:35:11Apple people and PC people that's only widened over the years.
0:35:16Because to me, one of the great things about being all in on the Apple platform is that
0:35:20it's so easy to know what the best thing to get is.
0:35:23Right.
0:35:24You know, if I want the best iPad, I know to get the iPad Air 2 and, you know, just
0:35:29decide which color I want and whether I want cellular and you know how much
0:35:34storage I want and that's it. Whereas if I want the best Android tablet who knows
0:35:38what it is if I want the best Windows gaming PC who knows.
0:35:42Yeah I mean there's there's some like I said there's a few manufacturers that
0:35:48specialize in that kind of thing and but you know you go to go to Lenovo site too
0:35:54and I mean any kind of leaning towards Lenovo just because I don't know I mean
0:35:59and they've heard that they're okay as opposed to some of the rest of them.
0:36:03It seems like a lot of the other ones really have decreased in quality over the years.
0:36:06And a bunch of people have gone out of business and people got bought.
0:36:11And the dizzying array of options that you're presented with for just laptops on just Lenovo's
0:36:20site is ridiculous.
0:36:22I can't make heads or tails on any of this stuff.
0:36:26there's a section for there is a you know, there's like, it's
0:36:30like a matrix. It's like a product matrix of different
0:36:33numbers. And within those numbers, they'll say one's good
0:36:37for home and good ones good for gaming once good for business.
0:36:41But I don't know. But then you have to basically like navigate
0:36:45through those numbers and like, that doesn't make any sense to
0:36:48me, though. Yeah. I mean, gaming is to me either. Gaming is the
0:36:51only one that makes sense to me because gaming means it's going
0:36:54to have high-powered graphics.
0:36:57If they're being honest and saying this one's good for gaming, it means it's good graphics.
0:37:04Or at least gaming optimized graphics.
0:37:09You could have...
0:37:11Like a Mac Pro might have very powerful graphics, but it's probably more...
0:37:15The drivers are more optimized towards professional applications than gaming.
0:37:20Whereas a gaming PC, you know what it means.
0:37:23Set up for all the stuff on Steam to be optimized, you know, right, right
0:37:27But what's the difference in a machine that's good for home and good for business?
0:37:31I mean, I guess that home is mostly just considered email and web surfing
0:37:35And why this I don't know and business and I always get the sense that businesses somebody else is paying for this
0:37:42So this is a more expensive computer see I don't know I kind of feel like it's such an artificial
0:37:49distinction that it dates back to the you know, like
0:37:53back to when we were talking with like word 5 and Ward 6 like 1989 and 90 when like
0:37:58Business would want like a networking card
0:38:01like when it was a card that you actually had to install in the back of the computer so you could plug Ethernet in or
0:38:06Something like that and an Ethernet card was a couple hundred bucks and it was expensive and there's no way you'd want that at home
0:38:12Because nobody had Ethernet at home. Yeah, and so there were you know, like
0:38:17physical differences between what you'd want in a business environment than a home environment whereas
0:38:22Because it's a distinction that's meaningless today.
0:38:26I mean, there's a reason why Apple doesn't have business versus home distinctions in
0:38:30any of their products.
0:38:32Right?
0:38:33There's no business iPhone and home iPhone.
0:38:37And in fact, it's the fact that they didn't do that and they don't have any such distinctions
0:38:42is what's driven this whole, I think, revolutionary bring your own device to work thing that's
0:38:50really gotten and you know gaining momentum in like the biggest and most
0:38:55buttoned up corporate environments yeah I really think I mean that whole good
0:39:00better best thing that they did rounds 2000 right was that that's now I think
0:39:07it was even earlier okay so maybe it started earlier and that went like up
0:39:11to like 2003 or something like that and then they think they started dropping it
0:39:15was brilliant and I think they should I frankly think they should still do that
0:39:19I think they do internally but it's it's a little bit blurrier, you know, it's yeah
0:39:26Well, and the other thing they did was well they had good better and best
0:39:32but then where they had just had the simple four-way product matrix of
0:39:35pro not pro
0:39:39Portable not portable, you know, right and there was so there was the not pro portable was the iBook and the pro
0:39:47portable was the MacBook or I guess it was the power book then you know iMac
0:39:52was the not Pro desktop and the power Mac power Mac I was gonna say Mac Pro
0:39:59right power Mac was the pro desktop and that was it and then within each one
0:40:03there was good better best yeah so it's a little bit more complicated now but
0:40:08not too much I don't think it's gonna be really come I have no idea what they're
0:40:12you're gonna do next year with the iPhone.
0:40:13- Well, shelf that, 'cause I think
0:40:17that's a deep conversation. - That is a deep one, yeah.
0:40:19- I think we should return to it,
0:40:22but I don't think it's hard to go in
0:40:24and buy a MacBook today.
0:40:25I think, you know, what would you rather do?
0:40:29Would you rather pay?
0:40:30I think it'll get more complex, maybe more complex
0:40:33if the rumored retina MacBook Airs are coming as, you know,
0:40:38like in the early months of next year,
0:40:41which I think is probably true.
0:40:43I think if the iMac has gone retina,
0:40:46I think the MacBook Air is probably next.
0:40:49And I think suddenly that becomes
0:40:51a little tougher decision to make.
0:40:53- But that's a transition.
0:40:54- Right.
0:40:55And if anything, it's only gonna steer more people
0:40:57towards spending a little less
0:40:58and getting the retina MacBook Air
0:41:01instead of a retina MacBook, 13 inch MacBook Pro.
0:41:05Which I think would save people money
0:41:09instead of making people pay more.
0:41:11- Right.
0:41:11- But it's still, right now today though,
0:41:13it's a very easy decision.
0:41:14It's like, do you want the really nice machine
0:41:17and yeah, it's gonna be a little thicker and heavier
0:41:19or do you want the cheaper, lighter one, which is the Air?
0:41:23- Yeah.
0:41:24It was pretty easy.
0:41:27I mean, knowing the, getting my wife a machine
0:41:29was actually relatively simple
0:41:32because she's got a monitor, she's got an external monitor.
0:41:36So she didn't need a huge screen.
0:41:37So 10 inch and definitely the air obviously.
0:41:42And then it was just storage space
0:41:46and she's got a fairly big iPhoto library.
0:41:48So she needed, she couldn't take the 128 gig hard drive.
0:41:53And I was, I think, okay, if you wanna get a machine now,
0:41:58it really makes sense to get eight gigs of RAM
0:41:59instead of four.
0:42:00- Yeah.
0:42:01- And so that was it.
0:42:02- Yeah, that's it, yeah.
0:42:05There are no other, no other really,
0:42:06no really any other considerations whatsoever.
0:42:09- Yeah, and I'm not, you know,
0:42:11and I'm sure that on the flip side,
0:42:12it's like what drives, like this conversation of what,
0:42:15how great it is that we don't have too many choices to make
0:42:18is exactly what drives PC--
0:42:19- Sure.
0:42:20- PC fans nuts, and they think that--
0:42:23- And Android fans.
0:42:25- Right, well, 'cause I think they're the same people,
0:42:27you know, I think that, you know,
0:42:29the people who most like the fact
0:42:31that they can configure, can build,
0:42:34can still build their own PCs for the desktop,
0:42:36are the sort of people who think it's wonderful
0:42:41that there are so many Android phones to choose from.
0:42:44My thing was that I'm seriously thinking about,
0:42:49like in the next couple of weeks,
0:42:50probably like maybe like for the month of December,
0:42:54to try, I haven't done it in like two years,
0:42:56is give Android a shot and try living for two weeks
0:42:59with an Android phone.
0:43:02And so I asked around, I was waiting for the Nexus 6 to ship,
0:43:05which I almost certainly knew I wasn't going to want
0:43:07because it's so huge.
0:43:09But it came out and the reviews came out yesterday
0:43:13and a lot of them are really, really bad.
0:43:16Josh Topolsky had pictures from it
0:43:19and he thinks the camera is actually worse
0:43:22than last year's Nexus 5 and both of them are way worse
0:43:24than the iPhone camera, low light.
0:43:27It's a really shitty camera.
0:43:29And that to me is a deal breaker right there.
0:43:31- Right.
0:43:31But it's, you know, so my just basic question to Twitter and to my Twitter followers is,
0:43:37okay, let's say I want to give Android Lollipop, you know, the new 5.0 version of Android,
0:43:42which I do think from the outside, not having used it, looks like the first one, first version
0:43:47of Android ever that's pretty well designed.
0:43:49Right.
0:43:50So that's why I want to try it.
0:43:52And I have no interest in trying Android 4 point anything on any phone because I know
0:43:57that I don't like it.
0:43:58I know I've used it.
0:43:59I've spent enough time with Android 4 devices
0:44:01that I know I don't like the design.
0:44:03So it has to be 5.0.
0:44:05Which phone should I get?
0:44:06And there's no clear, like, this is the best one to get.
0:44:10- Yeah, yeah.
0:44:12- More or less it comes down to the two most popular answers
0:44:14were the Nexus 5, which is the year old Nexus phone,
0:44:18and the Moto X.
0:44:21Moto X is more expensive though.
0:44:23It would cost me like 500 bucks.
0:44:25- No HTC?
0:44:28No, because HTC's M8, which did get some votes,
0:44:32and most of the people who voted for it said it's easily
0:44:37the best build quality of any Android phone.
0:44:39But all HTC has promised for the M8
0:44:42is that it'll get lollipop within the next 90 days, which
0:44:46probably means 89 days from now.
0:44:50Yeah, I've talked about my Nexus 7 on the show before.
0:44:56And it's the original one.
0:44:58And so the other day, I thought--
0:45:00because Lollipop just came out not that long ago--
0:45:03I thought, oh, well, maybe I can see
0:45:04if I can get Lollipop on that device,
0:45:08because it wasn't included in the beta program originally.
0:45:11It was tried back in the summer, and it was not
0:45:15one of the devices that you could install the early release
0:45:19on.
0:45:21And still, there is no release for that device.
0:45:24And how old is that?
0:45:25was very confusing, so that's.
0:45:28When did that come out two years ago,
0:45:31two and a half years ago, I want to say.
0:45:33Yeah, because it came out the summer before the iPad mini.
0:45:40And. It's just it's just a little odd to me
0:45:46that a lollipop is quote out, but it's not that they haven't created
0:45:50and apparently they're going to create a build for it, but they haven't done it yet.
0:45:53No, yeah, they're not good at stuff like that. And it's a you know, and it's from Google. It's a Google, right?
0:45:59It's a Google device
0:46:01They're not there
0:46:05I my broad impression of Google overall. I was I forget I was talking about this on Twitter the other day, but that
0:46:12It's like one of those adages and I know it's you know, it's it's obviously not
0:46:17Mathematically true, but you know, you know the first 90 percent of the effort takes half your time
0:46:23and
0:46:25The other 10% takes the other 90% of your time. Yeah, it's that last 10% always is
0:46:31Not really 10% It's really more like half of anything any big project
0:46:37and
0:46:39Google is really bad at it at going into that, you know
0:46:44And to me that like that like the hard part and for all the gripes people have about you know
0:46:50Like iOS new versions of iOS running poorly on the oldest supported
0:46:55Phones, you know or tab or iPads at least they do run and it's a lot more effort to make that happen
0:47:02Then I think people give Apple credit for it. Yeah, and
0:47:05It's you know, Google just punts on all that usually
0:47:09I mean I'd see our live with Android pretty much every every year
0:47:12Like they've never really had a release that has good support even for their Nexus devices that are more than a year old. Yeah
0:47:19- Yeah.
0:47:21- Because it's hard, it's really, really hard.
0:47:23And they just don't even try.
0:47:26But the consensus seems to be that if I want the best,
0:47:30like the state of the art Android experience today,
0:47:33get a Moto X.
0:47:34The new Moto X, 'cause they kept the name
0:47:37the same year after year.
0:47:38- That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought that.
0:47:44- Yeah, and everybody seems to agree with it too.
0:47:46Like the consensus is it's the best build quality,
0:47:49It's a good, you know, a competitive camera and Motorola's extension.
0:47:57It's not just a pure, you know, like the way that the Nexus has the pure Google Android
0:48:02experience like Android 5.0 with nothing, you know, unadulterated.
0:48:08That Moto X's version is pretty close to stock and the only thing they really do is they
0:48:14they add their own applications as system apps
0:48:17that you can't delete,
0:48:18but they don't change the system itself.
0:48:20Like the notification center,
0:48:22it looks like the pure Android notification center,
0:48:25and stuff like that.
0:48:27It's a lot more, it's really, really close to stock Android
0:48:32with a few Motorola sprinkles,
0:48:34as opposed to the HTC and Samsung way
0:48:37of sort of getting in at the system level
0:48:39and decorating it. - Right, right.
0:48:42I would love to try Xiaomi
0:48:44Phone yeah, I would too. I don't know how you could get your hands on one of them. Yeah, I don't either
0:48:48And I from what I've read I suspect that while it would be fun to use
0:48:52It's probably crappy enough that you write it want it
0:48:55You wouldn't want to blow a couple hundred bucks on it because it's you know, right?
0:48:58But I'd love to see what the user experience I mean what the what the software is like. Yeah, because it's substantially different
0:49:04From the look of it. Yeah, very very custom. Yeah
0:49:09And I don't know what's gonna happen, you know people keep talking about oh look out because Xiaomi's going worldwide now
0:49:17And I don't know what's gonna happen if they come to the United States. I don't think they could my goal. Yeah
0:49:24Yeah, I don't think they ever will come to any I don't think they're ever gonna come to a country with strong IP laws
0:49:30Right. I really don't and they're gonna stick, you know, I think they can they can grow
0:49:35They have a lot of room to grow just staying in the Asian countries where they're mm-hmm
0:49:40Because the way that they operate in a way that they so shamelessly copy stuff that I just don't see how they're gonna
0:49:46I just don't see how they could do it. Yeah, I wouldn't think that
0:49:52They wouldn't be there five minutes before they get right
0:49:56Slapped with a suit. Yeah. Well and let's um
0:50:00Come back well when we come back let's talk about
0:50:05Your thing before about the what Apple will do with the iPhone next year, okay
0:50:09so remember that but I'm gonna take a break here and
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0:51:17With Harry's you can get an amazing shave and do good by supporting Movember's quest to fund research on
0:51:24important men's health issues
0:51:27Totally worth checking out really good cause I mean who's opposed to men's health. I mean, it's a great great cause
0:51:34And again, I've said this before, Harry's products are just amazingly amazingly high
0:51:41quality.
0:51:43Really high quality handles, high quality blades.
0:51:49To me that just says it all is that they don't, they're not like white label blades that they
0:51:54put their brands on.
0:51:56They bought their own razor blade factory in Germany.
0:51:59A factory that's been crafting razors, you know blades for almost a century
0:52:04They bought it and now they make their own and by cutting out that middleman
0:52:08That's that's the main way that they can offer
0:52:10Really high quality stuff at a fraction of the price of drugstore brands and it's literally like even if you go to like Amazon
0:52:17Who is not known for being undercut on prices and press, you know compare the price of like Harry's blades versus Gillette blades
0:52:25You know the equivalent number of blades on the thing. It's about half the price really really great price
0:52:30Their starter shave set starts at just 15 bucks that includes the razor handle three blades and your choice of
0:52:38Harry's shave cream or their new foaming shave gel
0:52:43I've only ever used the shave cream. I like that stuff, but I
0:52:48Don't know what kind of shaver you do you like the foaming?
0:52:51I'm currently I'm actually yeah when I used to use a straight razor. I've liked the foaming stuff
0:52:57See, I don't like the foaming stuff because I can't see I can't see what's going on
0:53:01But if you like the foaming stuff, they've got that now too with their shave gel so you get to pick what you want
0:53:06I just think feels good on your face. I think it's like it's a
0:53:10Anyway, you know, whatever. Yeah to each zone. Yeah, my dad always used the the foamy stuff
0:53:15So, I don't know. I like the the regular shave cream that doesn't really foam up
0:53:20But anyway, you get your pick and they also just released a new aftershave moisturizer
0:53:26They sent me some of that they just send it
0:53:28I don't even ask for it, but I guess because they sponsor the show they sent me some smells really good. I like it
0:53:33Really high quality stuff all of their stuff comes in the most amazing packaging it I've said this before
0:53:39It's like that type of packaging that the pack rat and me doesn't even want to throw away and it's like then I start thinking myself
0:53:44Well, no, you don't you now you're gonna be on the hoarder show because you're crazy. You're keeping the box with your laser
0:53:49Right you you're keeping the cardboard box at your razor blades came in because you like the fonts. I mean it
0:53:54Seriously I have to like I have to like do like a double take and then I go to throw it in the trash can
0:54:01And it's like I can't
0:54:03Alright, but it's real. That's how good the packaging is
0:54:06Really great stuff if you haven't checked them out what God for God's sake do it now while November is going on go to
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0:54:32Go to Harry's calm and use that when you check out you'll get five bucks off your order
0:54:39Which is you know, it's only 15 bucks to get started. So there you go. You're
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0:54:48You know, I've never I've been shaving my head for like a year and a half now, yeah
0:54:54I've never shaved it with a blade like a
0:54:58I've always used an electric but I should try it with that. I bet it's a really nice
0:55:04clean clean cut
0:55:07Some people do it. I know I mean I know bald guys who do it, right?
0:55:14But you can't see I don't know. I don't know. I'm gonna be careful. I have our skill get Hank to do it. I
0:55:21Have enough time enough I have enough trouble just shaving my face with
0:55:28My decreasing vision and stuff. What I can look at is is hard enough
0:55:32So next year's iPhones I a lot of people have been talking about this
0:55:37Is what that what are they gonna do with the four inch size? Is that what you're thinking? Mm-hmm
0:55:43- Yeah, because I've seen a lot of people
0:55:47have been publishing their whatever,
0:55:49like a month with the iPhone 6 Plus
0:55:52or a month with the iPhone 6.
0:55:54And everybody seems to really like them.
0:55:56I like the device well enough.
0:55:58I've got a 6.
0:55:59But what I mostly like about it is the extra features
0:56:04as opposed to the larger screen.
0:56:07If I could, I would actually go back to the 4-inch.
0:56:11- I would too.
0:56:12In fact, I did it for two weeks.
0:56:14I went back just to see what I thought.
0:56:17I actually took my SIM card out and went back to my 5S
0:56:21for two full weeks and really liked it.
0:56:24But ultimately went back to the 6
0:56:28because I can definitely tell,
0:56:31I can absolutely Pepsi challenge the superior photos,
0:56:35especially indoors.
0:56:37It's possible that outdoors in sunlight,
0:56:39I couldn't Pepsi challenge the photos,
0:56:41but indoors I can definitely do it.
0:56:43There's so much less noise on the,
0:56:46and brighter exposures in really low light on the six
0:56:52that it's, that alone almost makes it, seals the deal.
0:56:56I also can tell, and this is something I didn't,
0:57:00like when I wrote my review of it, that I didn't notice,
0:57:03and it's the sort of thing that,
0:57:04it's why I wish that I could always take six weeks
0:57:07to write these reviews like I used to
0:57:09before I got the review units
0:57:10as opposed to doing it in like one week.
0:57:12But like in the first week with the two new phones,
0:57:15I noticed that the screens were nice,
0:57:16but I didn't notice that they were actually nicer
0:57:19than the 5S.
0:57:21- Yeah, I didn't either.
0:57:22- And there's that whole,
0:57:25the big thing that I was obsessed with the first week
0:57:27was the increase in pixels per inch on the 6 Plus,
0:57:31that they went to this 1920 by 1080 resolution
0:57:36and it runs at 3x retina, but on the fly they scale it down to like this weird 2.7x scaling
0:57:45factor.
0:57:47And I spent the whole week like you know taking my glasses on, taking them off, getting it
0:57:51you know squinting real close at it, trying to see if I could see you know the scaling
0:57:55and how much nicer.
0:57:57And it really, the 6+ really does look nicer to me like you get really close to it and
0:58:00text looks better because there's more pixels per inch.
0:58:03Even though they're scaling and it's not true 3X, it really does look better than 2X.
0:58:07And this regular 6 has the same 326 pixels per inch as the 5S.
0:58:13I didn't notice this in the first week with the phone because I was obsessed with just
0:58:16the pixels per inch.
0:58:18And the 6 had the same pixels per inch for the 5S, so I didn't really bother looking
0:58:21at it too much.
0:58:22But now, lo these almost what, two months later, and with me having gone back to the
0:58:28S for two weeks and now back to the 6. I can really notice that the 6, you know, the fact
0:58:36that it has the same pixels per inch aside is so much, has a really nice improvement
0:58:40to the screen. And I know that they talked about the fact that they added a polarizing
0:58:45filter or a new polarizing filter so it looks better with polarized sunglasses. But I think
0:58:50something to do with that also, the screen is even closer to the glass than before. It's
0:58:58even you know I know that I raved about it endlessly when they first went Retina with
0:59:02the iPhone 4 that it really looked like the pixels are closer to the glass. But now it's
0:59:07so much closer that it makes like my iPhone 5 look like the screen is too far behind the
0:59:12glass. And it even makes all of my iPads, everything I look at other than the phone
0:59:16look like the pixels are too far under the glass. And that's really nice. But bottom
0:59:23is it's all about the feel in my hand and I like the four inch feel in my hand
0:59:27better I do I use my phone so much of the time that I use my phone I really
0:59:31only have one hand it writes it's just humongous it's a humongous issue for me
0:59:37yeah I can I can't bring myself to to get into reachability I do you use
0:59:42reachability not much you know even though I even though my complaint is
0:59:46about not being able to reach stuff at the top with my grip it never occurs to
0:59:50me. So instead I'm doing this thing where I'm gently palming
0:59:55it right and I have no there's no support at the bottom and
0:59:58I'm reaching across the phone to get to the upper right hand
1:00:00corner. I'm doing it right now, which is why my mouth is
1:00:03turning away from the microphone, but and I just I
1:00:06know I'm gonna drop it at some point because it's not a it's
1:00:09not a secure hold but reachability. I mean to me, it's
1:00:13nice that it's there, but it doesn't it often doesn't fire
1:00:17for me on the first try.
1:00:19And so then I'm doing this extra thing
1:00:22that I didn't used to have to do.
1:00:24And sometimes it's not working
1:00:25and it's not solving the problem for me.
1:00:30- Definitely.
1:00:33It just never occurs to me to use it.
1:00:35It's part of what I love about iOS
1:00:38is even more than Mac OS X.
1:00:41To me, the system makes such a coherent sense.
1:00:46the design of the way that you go in and out of apps
1:00:48and navigate within an app.
1:00:50It's like I'm in, I'm just, whenever I'm using my iPhone,
1:00:53I'm just in a certain mental zone.
1:00:56And it, using reachability takes me out of that, you know,
1:00:59because it's not on screen.
1:01:01Like part of what to me the magic of iOS is
1:01:05that everything is on the screen.
1:01:08Anything you can do is something you can see on the screen.
1:01:12And that's a profound decrease in abstraction.
1:01:17Like that's why I think that the hardware back button
1:01:26that Android uses, even though they draw it on screen now,
1:01:30on most phones, but the fact that it's outside the rules
1:01:34of the system, it just never occurs to me to use it
1:01:37when I'm using Android.
1:01:38And--
1:01:39- Yeah, I find it hard to remember that
1:01:41that's what you're supposed to do.
1:01:42that the only thing you ever have to do in iOS
1:01:45that's hardware related is hit the home button,
1:01:50software-wise, and then there's things like volume,
1:01:53but that volume makes sense that it's hardware
1:01:55because it's not the software you're manipulating,
1:01:57it's what the actual, it makes sense that it's hardware
1:01:59'cause it's the device that's emitting the sound.
1:02:02And using reachability just takes me outside that zone.
1:02:07It feels like it's not on the screen.
1:02:10- Right.
1:02:12If somehow I could just swipe my thumb down
1:02:15and the phone would magically know
1:02:17that I'm swiping down to read something,
1:02:18I'd probably use it all the time.
1:02:20But there's of course no way the phone could read your mind
1:02:22and know that you're swiping down for reachability
1:02:25as opposed to-- - Some other thing, yeah.
1:02:27- Yeah, you know, if it could though,
1:02:30read your mind in theory.
1:02:32You know, I mean, I know that it's,
1:02:34I'm just saying, I would use it all the time.
1:02:36I would just drag the screen down
1:02:38and you know, hit the back button.
1:02:41but it's a big issue for me.
1:02:42I also, I really, really don't like the size of it
1:02:46in my jeans and I keep--
1:02:49- That I don't notice actually.
1:02:51I really don't notice the difference there.
1:02:53- I definitely do.
1:02:54I think part of it too is that when I wrote my review
1:02:56in September, it was still somewhat shorts weather.
1:02:59I might've spent more time with shorts, I don't know,
1:03:02but it's, and I keep toggling the mute switch
1:03:07as I take it in and out of my jeans.
1:03:09I also I just don't like it I even like the flat sides of the iPhone 5s I kind of
1:03:19like that but I also kind of like the new one too I mean I love the feel it's
1:03:22I like the smooth feel too I'll talk that one up to a wash because if if
1:03:28there were in theory a 4.0 inch iPhone 6 that had this shape I wouldn't be
1:03:36complaining about it I guess. Yeah I wouldn't either. But I do think my thing
1:03:41is that I noticed after switching back to the 5s for two weeks that it the flat
1:03:45sides make for a nicer iPhone as camera. Oh yeah. Holding it to take a picture it
1:03:52feels more natural in my hands to have my fingers pinching flat sides than round
1:03:57sides. But I'll call that a wash. It's overall though how easy it is to reach
1:04:02everything with holding the phone in one hand and how big it is in my pocket. Yeah.
1:04:06I mean sometimes it's I mean like so so
1:04:08Our friend Nevin mergen's game came out last night
1:04:12space age and
1:04:15Downloaded that and and you know, it's nice having a larger screen to play a game
1:04:21But I don't think to me it's not enough. It's not no, you know, I have an iPad
1:04:27It's not nice enough on the phone to make the difference for me. Yeah. No, no question when you're using it
1:04:34It's you know, there are certainly reasons to to prefer a bigger screen
1:04:38I mean I I I watch most most of the in the summer when I'm when baseball season's in and I watch
1:04:44Seriously, I watch you know, I don't know over 100 Yankee games a year the ones I don't watch on TV
1:04:49I usually watch on my iPad, but I wind up just for convenience sake sometimes watching them on my phone and obviously
1:04:56Watching something that's the equivalent of TV like a ballgame the bigger the screen the better, you know, right even the 6+ is better
1:05:04You know, but that's to me isn't important enough to optimize which phone I get.
1:05:10If there were a 4.0 inch iPhone 6, like a third size, zero hesitation, 100% certainty,
1:05:17that's the one I would have bought.
1:05:18Yeah, me too.
1:05:19Well, I think, I mean, at this point I wanted to try it, try the bigger size and see if
1:05:24I liked it better, but I've come to the conclusion that I don't.
1:05:28Right.
1:05:29It's not even, it would be, it's an easier decision than almost any other in the Apple
1:05:33product line and no hesitation. I think the iPhone 6 is... I don't... and I... here's
1:05:39the big... here's the thing that I think gets lost in this is that people who'd love big
1:05:44phones and I know that they truly do. There are people who love the 5... the 6 Plus, you
1:05:48know. For whatever reason, they seem to... as a group to lump them all together, they
1:05:57seem to think just unilaterally big phones are better and now that the iPhone has bigger
1:06:05screens, iPhone users will see what they've been missing out on for years. Everybody will
1:06:09see it and will appreciate it. I don't doubt that they're right but I really do think though
1:06:15that there are... I'm certain now having used it for this bunch and having gone back that
1:06:22It's the scale of form factors that people want in phones definitely goes beneath 4.7
1:06:31inches.
1:06:32So my short version is not that the iPhone 6 is too big, it's that it's too big to be
1:06:39the smallest iPhone.
1:06:45Not that I'm doubting that there are some people who love this size and that it's perfect
1:06:48for them.
1:06:49So, what are they going to do next year?
1:06:53Don't know I would be surprised if they don't update the that the four inch form factor though what I hope they do is
1:07:04is
1:07:06Expand the top of the line, you know, which would be next year. I would expect an a9
1:07:12system on a chip and
1:07:14You know an even better camera
1:07:16I would what I hope they do is expand to three sizes and that they you know, whatever they call it, you know
1:07:23Yeah, if it's me, I don't know if they're gonna stick with this thing where they you know, you use the same
1:07:29You know if next year's
1:07:314.7 inch is exact same physical size as this and they call it the 6s and
1:07:35they called the other one the 6s plus and they fit the same cases and
1:07:40Maybe they just update the colors of the metal to show that they're new ones
1:07:45And introduce I don't know an iPhone 6 air call it the iPhone 6 air and make it the 4 inch size
1:07:52With like I said
1:07:57What I would hope for is they would have the a9 and the new camera and all that the Apple pay
1:08:03But well, I think it'll have Apple pen no matter what what I think is more likely is
1:08:09That they would make it
1:08:12do it sort of like they did the 5c two years ago and
1:08:15That the for it. This is what I think is more likely that the four inch size there will be a new phone
1:08:21But it'll be like the 5c might be even might even be plastic, right?
1:08:27and would have the
1:08:30internal specs of these phones
1:08:33thus a
1:08:36A8 these 2014 and I don't have dead of the nine. Yeah, and the camera from this phone and
1:08:42And it would be you know, $100 lower starting price than the success. Yeah, that sounds more likely to me
1:08:50I think it's way more likely because I think they have to think they can't price it equivalent. They can't mate
1:08:55Yeah, I think you know, well, I scream the screen size alone isn't enough for it to warrant $100 difference, right?
1:09:02You know that that's it would they be?
1:09:05eating into their
1:09:07Profit margins too much, you know that you know, they can't justify, you know wouldn't cost them $100 less to do it
1:09:13so I think it would be more likely that it would be like the 6c the iPhone 6c and
1:09:19It would be four inches, but it would be a year behind on the specs to me
1:09:23The plastic seems to belong at the bottom of the line though because what happens then?
1:09:27I mean you can't you can't then take the 5s and move it down to the free model and have a plastic
1:09:34Maybe I guess you could put this the screen size is the same. I mean, that's what they did with the five, right?
1:09:39You know, they had the four s
1:09:42When the 5c came out
1:09:44At the bottom, but that was a different screen size
1:09:48And it doesn't seem like they could push down. I mean, maybe they could just make a new
1:09:53new 5c
1:09:57So then the bottom two would be both plastic
1:10:01Yeah, something like that. I don't know but that's what I worried that they're going to do and and I worry that
1:10:07On the CPU side I would I probably would just
1:10:13prefer
1:10:16Size alone and I'll take the year-old
1:10:19CPU specs and get the smaller one, but I'm
1:10:24very much
1:10:26Worried that the camera in next year's iPhone will be so much better again than this year's
1:10:31that yeah even though I'm so impressed this year with this camera I think next
1:10:36year's camera is gonna be so much better that I won't that I'll be stuck getting
1:10:40the 4.7 inch one again for the camera even though I would take the a the year
1:10:44old a8 because I don't really play a lot of games and stuff like that and it's
1:10:48you know I don't know that that getting an improved a9 would mean that much to
1:10:53me but the improved camera would yeah I mentioned this a few episodes ago but I
1:11:01don't have any firm thing about it but I heard like a rumor of a rumor from a
1:11:06like a birdie who knows a birdie like way distant but that well number one
1:11:11it's it's not looking at every single year the cameras gotten better on the
1:11:16iPhone I think except for the first except for the 3g the the you know the
1:11:22the 2008 iPhone had the same camera as the original 2007.
1:11:26Like still didn't shoot video,
1:11:28still was really looked like a phone camera.
1:11:30But ever since the 3GS,
1:11:33every single year the iPhone camera
1:11:35has gotten noticeably better.
1:11:37Like enough better that it was,
1:11:39the camera alone was tempting to be the reason
1:11:42that you upgrade every single year.
1:11:44At least if you care about photography.
1:11:48And so there's no reason to think that's gonna stop anyway.
1:11:51But the specific thing I heard is that there,
1:11:53it's like next year's camera might be like
1:11:56the biggest camera jump ever that they've got like--
1:11:58- Oh yeah, really?
1:11:59- Yeah, that it's, I don't even know,
1:12:02I don't even know what sense this makes,
1:12:03but that I've heard that it's some kind of weird
1:12:05two lens system, where like the back camera uses two lenses
1:12:09and I don't know, somehow that it takes it up
1:12:13into SLR quality imagery.
1:12:16And I don't know, that, well, and in some ways,
1:12:19And that's what I've heard, but it can't really mean SLR quality,
1:12:23'cause a lot of what makes SLR, and in the digital age,
1:12:28the 4/3 cameras, which aren't SLR, but you know what I mean.
1:12:32What it means is big sensor.
1:12:34And a lot of what makes cameras with big sensors
1:12:38have better imagery is physics.
1:12:41There's physics involved, and you have to really
1:12:43have to have a big sensor. - The distance between
1:12:44the lenses, right? - Right.
1:12:45But that there's something they could do with two lenses,
1:12:48I don't know, that just makes the photos,
1:12:51not at a technical level SLR quality,
1:12:53but at a practical level for consumers taking pictures,
1:12:57closer to SLRs, I don't know.
1:13:02But that it's a big enough jump
1:13:03that anybody who cares about the photography,
1:13:05even if you really want a four inch phone again,
1:13:08you're gonna get the 4.7.
1:13:10- Yeah, I feel like the last two cameras
1:13:12have been plenty of camera for me.
1:13:15I'm not as big a camera buff as you are.
1:13:18And for years it did seem like, yeah, okay, okay,
1:13:21I'm basically taking pictures with this
1:13:25because it's the one that's in my pocket.
1:13:27And I don't feel like that anymore.
1:13:29Like it's practically speaking caught up
1:13:32to almost everything that I need.
1:13:33- Yeah.
1:13:35- It's just they've gotten so good.
1:13:37- Yeah.
1:13:38And I'm a guy who's, every couple of years,
1:13:42not every year, like every couple of years
1:13:43I'll drop 800 or $1,000 on a new camera.
1:13:46- I don't do that.
1:13:47I really do care about some of that stuff.
1:13:48And I really, I could just see looking at my,
1:13:52you know, like my Lightroom archive,
1:13:54that every year it's more and more,
1:13:57or less and less photos shot with anything
1:14:00other than the iPhone.
1:14:01- Yeah.
1:14:02- It's always, it just gets more and more,
1:14:05even like on vacation, and I have the camera camera camera
1:14:08with me, and it's like, eh, I don't feel like walking
1:14:10around with that on my neck, I'll just use my iPhone.
1:14:14But I do, I think the camera is what it's gonna come down to
1:14:16for me next year, unless they do what I really,
1:14:19really hope they do is put three phones at the top of the.
1:14:24- Yeah, that would be what I would hope to.
1:14:26- But I don't think they will.
1:14:27- I agree, yeah.
1:14:29But I still think I would probably go back to,
1:14:32stick with the relatively same internals as this phone
1:14:37in a four inch screen.
1:14:39- Yeah, I think if the camera isn't vastly improved,
1:14:43if it's, you know, I would be very tempted
1:14:46just to get that phone.
1:14:47I noticed too, and here's the other anecdotal thing,
1:14:51is like two or three weeks ago,
1:14:52there was a little, a small indie Mac conference
1:14:56here in Philly, Coco Love.
1:14:57I didn't speak at it, but I went to it,
1:15:01and you know, I don't know, 150 Mac nerds, iOS development.
1:15:06You know, some friends, Marco was here,
1:15:11Dave Whiskus and Brent were here,
1:15:13But I met a lot of new people to,
1:15:15I don't really get out much.
1:15:16So even though it was local, even the local people,
1:15:19a lot of them were new to me.
1:15:21And people noticed, it occurred during
1:15:25that two week stretch where I went back to my 5S.
1:15:27And a lot of people noticed that I was using a 5S.
1:15:30And they asked.
1:15:32And almost every single person who I talked to about it
1:15:36was nodding their head in agreement.
1:15:39that yeah, they were all people who had the 6,
1:15:43not the 6 Plus, and all were thinking the same thing
1:15:46that I love so much about this new phone,
1:15:49except that it's bigger.
1:15:50- Yeah.
1:15:52- So there's definitely, and it's not just,
1:15:54you and I are not outliers.
1:15:56We may not be the majority,
1:15:58like the split across the product line
1:16:02may not be 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 if they did this,
1:16:04but I think that it's, I think it's maybe close
1:16:07at least a quarter of people would prefer the four inch size. Yeah I think so too. I mean I talked to
1:16:13it seems like most of the people I talk to actually are you know so I've got a friend who who has
1:16:18giant oven-sized hands and so he got a six plus and he feels like he's home because you know he
1:16:26had a four which was so he was like waiting you know thinking they're gonna make a new they're
1:16:30gonna make one that's bigger and I'm gonna wait for that and so he got the six plus when I came
1:16:35out and he's just like it's perfect for him but you know like our neighbor up
1:16:41the street was we were talking before the phone these phones came out she said
1:16:46she said it's gonna be bigger I don't even like I've got a four I don't even
1:16:49want a bigger phone than this you know my mom is on a 3GS and I keep saying
1:16:55when are you gonna get a new phone you need to get a new phone looks like she's
1:16:58not even getting software updates anymore and and then it was like okay
1:17:03"Well, if I get one, what are you gonna get?
1:17:04"What should I get?"
1:17:05And I go like, "Well, I guess you should get the,"
1:17:07and it's like, "I don't want a huge phone,
1:17:08"so I guess you should get the 5S."
1:17:12And my wife, same thing, she's like,
1:17:15"I don't want that big a phone,
1:17:16"I just don't want it that big."
1:17:18So all the people I know who are in the market now
1:17:23are not terribly excited about the larger firm factor.
1:17:26- Right.
1:17:28- And I think it's a complicated product marketing problem
1:17:33where I think part of it, clearly there are people,
1:17:39I mean, I know this, that there are people who love,
1:17:42like your big-handed friend, who love the six plus.
1:17:45And I know that there are people with tiny hands
1:17:48who love the six plus.
1:17:49And I know, from talking to Ben Thompson, huge,
1:17:54Every woman in Asia has a big, like, fablet-sized,
1:17:59six-inch phone, and they were all,
1:18:01all of them who wanted an iPhone
1:18:02were all waiting for the six plus.
1:18:04And, you know, it's almost like for some of the people,
1:18:08like women with really small hands,
1:18:10that they couldn't use the iPhone 4 one-handed either.
1:18:12So the whole one-handed thing wasn't an issue anyway,
1:18:14so you might as well get a big one.
1:18:16So I know that it's not just an issue,
1:18:17it's not just appealing to people with large hands.
1:18:20It's, you know, it's across the board.
1:18:22Some people just use their phone two-handed all the time.
1:18:25If so, why not get the biggest one?
1:18:28But it's not just nerds either.
1:18:33It's not just me.
1:18:33Like Amy, who uses her iPhone very differently from me,
1:18:36she's nowhere near,
1:18:37she's not on it anywhere near as much as I am.
1:18:39But she doesn't like the six size either.
1:18:42She thinks it's ridiculously big.
1:18:44And she can't even, she really can't even believe
1:18:47that there's a bigger size.
1:18:48(laughing)
1:18:49- It's pretty astounding when you see it
1:18:51for the first time.
1:18:53- Yeah.
1:18:53- Whoa, that's a lot of phone.
1:18:57- It, you know what, and it's funny,
1:18:58it's funny 'cause I even had one as a review unit
1:19:01and I used it for a week, but at the Coco Love Conference,
1:19:05you know, when everybody had it on their phone,
1:19:06everybody had them out all the time.
1:19:07And there were people, of course, not just the people who,
1:19:09you know, who were nodding their head in agreement with me
1:19:11that the 6 is too big, but there were, of course,
1:19:13other people who had the 6 Plus and you see them with it
1:19:15and it's like, wow, it was a big ass phone.
1:19:18- Yeah.
1:19:19- I don't know, I'll never get over it.
1:19:21I've got my old 4 sitting here and it just feels really good.
1:19:27I do.
1:19:28I love the 4.
1:19:28It's small.
1:19:30That feels like a phone to me.
1:19:32Yeah.
1:19:33It had a good feel.
1:19:34I like the 5S too.
1:19:36Bottom line for me, the 5S is at this point peak iPhone.
1:19:39That it's actually to me the overall--
1:19:41the overall best iPhone ever made to me is the 5S.
1:19:45Yeah, I agree.
1:19:45I agree.
1:19:46Because the 5 was the right form factor,
1:19:49but it got dinged up badly.
1:19:50It wasn't as nice a build.
1:19:54- Right.
1:19:55Hey, let's take another break here and thank
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1:23:34recommend them strongly enough all right what else is going on let's talk about
1:23:41your book I don't talk about your book yeah we took or what you guys know
1:23:44that's fine we were talking about I was talking about having to use word yeah
1:23:49and that's what that's what I have used I was gonna ask about that well here's
1:23:53so here's the deal you've have you ever written a book before no so you've
1:23:56written your first book we're part of my first but it's a co-authored so it's
1:24:01It's myself and two other fine authors, James Clark and Cory Dustman.
1:24:09And we have written the Visual Guide to Minecraft for Peach Pit Press, our good friends at Peach
1:24:15Pit Press.
1:24:17And it's a getting started book for people who are interested in getting into Minecraft
1:24:24or interested in learning a little bit more about some things like how to build houses,
1:24:31to use redstone. Redstone is really kind of an amazing thing if you haven't gotten into
1:24:36redstone in Minecraft. There's a good section on how to use redstone. You're laughing because
1:24:42you think it's a little quick.
1:24:43I'm laughing because I don't know what it means. I think redstone is the stuff that
1:24:45-- Jonas called me over one day and he said, "Here, watch this." And he had a thing and
1:24:50he pulled a lever and then like a fuse left, let off, and like a fuse burned and then he
1:24:57had like a fireworks show ready to go.
1:24:59Yeah, that was probably there was probably some redstone. Yeah, anything using a lever is probably
1:25:04Probably redstone. I mean in the great the cool thing about redstone is it kind of teaches particularly for kids teaches
1:25:11It's like it's almost like programming because they're they're gates
1:25:14So you can set up a series of different gates and by using these gates you're basically using it's basically the same
1:25:21Fundamental theory that is inside every computer. All right, it's logic, right?
1:25:27I like you know and sonors and stuff like yeah, and you know and one day can't came to me
1:25:33he's like I you know I saw this thing on you know as usual on YouTube and
1:25:38somebody had made a an elevator in Minecraft using redstone and he's like I want to
1:25:44make this thing, but I can't figure out because you know most of these YouTube videos are
1:25:49created by a
1:25:52lot of them are created by like 14 year olds or
1:25:55You know right people who don't necessarily have the best video production skills and and presentation skills
1:26:03And this guy was better than that most
1:26:05But he also got like halfway through and realized that he had screwed something up and just like trying to correct it on the fly
1:26:10So it was pretty aggravating for me having to put that together
1:26:15But we got through it. We got it done anyway, so some of that stuff is in
1:26:20Is in the book my section is that I got I got the beginning section, which is how to you know basic game?
1:26:27installation and using the interface and then also
1:26:30surviving surviving your first day
1:26:33Which if your first you know that for me that was like that the hard part getting into the game was like okay?
1:26:40You just get dropped in this world, and there are no instructions really whatsoever, and it's like so what am I supposed to do?
1:26:45How do I?
1:26:46How do I move around here? What am I what's my what's my goal here?
1:26:50And so I talked about that and then do some basic introduction and like in how to set up a server
1:26:56I did that section and how to install mods
1:26:58Now your section is also available as its own standalone book
1:27:03Yeah, all of the section, you know
1:27:05all of them are so, you know if you if you go so you can go to Peach Pit press and and it's peach pit
1:27:10calm and look at look up the visual guide to Minecraft and you can get any of the
1:27:15sections separately as
1:27:17Ebooks or you can get the book and we're also we're also doing some video stuff that goes along with that
1:27:24So you buy the book?
1:27:26You'll get access to that once it's available. It's not quite up yet
1:27:30So that's why you badmouth the 14 year olds who make the YouTube videos
1:27:34You're you're saying you're saying that the videos that accompany the visual guide to Minecraft are
1:27:41They don't get halfway through and realize that they hadn't set up the right yeah at the bottom of the elevator. That's right
1:27:46That's right. In fact, they made me do over some
1:27:49That I did
1:27:52It's a good sign, which is it interesting which was and so we talked about like computer performance like gaming performance on
1:27:59Laptops and so I have my my regular machine is a 2012
1:28:0410 inch 11 inch whatever it is air
1:28:07with four
1:28:10megabytes of RAM or megabytes. Yeah, four megabytes of RAM. It's a special order.
1:28:14Four gigs of RAM. It's a 1991 commemorative MacBook Air.
1:28:19What were those little things that you could dock into the...
1:28:23Oh yeah. Anyway, and I had done some screen capture stuff before. I thought, okay,
1:28:32that won't be a problem. But it's one thing to do screen capture stuff of just like web browsing
1:28:38or moving files around in the finder. When you're playing a game and you're also running screen
1:28:43capture, you know like a fairly processor intensive game like Minecraft and also trying to run screen
1:28:48capture software, it's a problem. So the fan was going, things were slowing down and it was
1:28:55it was not working right. So I actually had to get Hank's MacBook Pro has eight gigs of RAM in it.
1:29:01That was the most powerful, the most RAM that we had in the house. So I had to borrow Hank's
1:29:08"Thanks MacBook Pro to actually do the video production for this thing."
1:29:11How did you get started on this? Like how did... Whose idea was it to write this book?
1:29:19So...
1:29:19Basic idea though, is that a dummy like me who's been blabbering on this show for months now about
1:29:24being not understanding what the hell Minecraft is. This is... I've just started the book. I got
1:29:28it last night. But it seems to me like at the very least it's going to answer the basic question of
1:29:33what the hell is going on, right? Which is really what I want. So I cannot tell you how happy I am
1:29:38that this book exists.
1:29:39I honestly, this is like the book of the year for me.
1:29:44Because it is a major part of my life, this game.
1:29:49Because I love my son and I'm really--
1:29:52- It's 'cause you're a parent.
1:29:53- Yeah, and I'm really, it's like the first time
1:29:55he's really gotten into something computer.
1:29:59He's more into Minecraft than anything else
1:30:02he's ever been into.
1:30:03And so I wanna be a part of that.
1:30:04And I almost feel like, I feel like I'm the dad
1:30:08Who never played sports and my kid wants to play baseball and now you're telling me that you got to run around these be I don't
1:30:13Even understand, you know, that's how I feel about Minecraft
1:30:16Yeah, yeah, like the dad who grew up in England and therefore never never heard of baseball, you know
1:30:21And now I live in the United States and my kid wants to play base, right? Right, right
1:30:25Yes, how did you how did you get involved with this?
1:30:27So well, he I mean he so he had he's got a buddy who got him into Minecraft, you know
1:30:31Just like you know, you gotta play Minecraft. You gotta play minecraft
1:30:34So so he started playing Minecraft like a couple of years ago now, I think.
1:30:38And, you know, and I same thing, I just like watched it from afar
1:30:42and then thought, Oh, yeah, I should.
1:30:45You know, he was looking for someone else to play with.
1:30:47And so I thought, OK, I'll I'll start playing.
1:30:48But then I had that, you know, that reaction like that first like,
1:30:51I don't know what the heck I'm doing.
1:30:53So I actually watched a YouTube video that said, here's how to,
1:30:56you know, like what you should try and do on your first day.
1:30:59And and then we played it for
1:31:04So he probably played it for at least a few months.
1:31:06So I played it for like a year and a half or something like that. And.
1:31:09Last spring, I wrote that article for the magazine about. Right.
1:31:16The the basically the moguls of
1:31:19Minecraft YouTube world about that guy, Stampi and Diamond
1:31:24Minecart and other people who are making ridiculous amounts of money
1:31:31doing these videos, these let's play videos of Minecraft on YouTube.
1:31:35Who's the guy who's trying to get to the edge of the universe?
1:31:37I don't know. I don't remember that guy's name.
1:31:40Right. But yeah, it's just like there's just
1:31:43there's so many people who are making Minecraft.
1:31:46And some of these guys make make very good money doing it.
1:31:50And just from the YouTube, just from the YouTube.
1:31:54Yeah, yeah, the ads. Right.
1:31:57So that guy, Stampi,
1:32:00I'm trying to remember his name off the top of my head.
1:32:02Joseph, Joseph Garrett.
1:32:03He, the Financial Times was trying to figure out
1:32:08how much he made.
1:32:09And they estimated that he grosses
1:32:12between 80,000 and $800,000 a month
1:32:17doing these videos.
1:32:19And Google takes a cut of that.
1:32:23They take like 45% and then his network that he works with
1:32:28that does promotion for him takes a cut of that so he's not he's not netting
1:32:32that but still but his operation it as an operation no heading between thirty
1:32:37thousand and three hundred thousand dollars a month boy I can't believe
1:32:40Google takes that much yeah apparently I guess I can yeah I mean there it's
1:32:44something like that yeah I mean I may not have the exact number but it's it's
1:32:48in that range I don't know I got our 30% seems like the gentleman's cap yeah you
1:32:54know like right you know I mean like everybody can complain that Apple takes
1:32:5830% and I know Amazon has some things where they take 30 just seems like 30% is the gentleman's cap for
1:33:04You know slicing off a top of every dollar that comes through your corporate thing anything more than that seems a little outrageous
1:33:12Yeah, but anyway keep going
1:33:14so
1:33:17Cliff Colby who is a guy who works at?
1:33:19Peach pit and I have I've known him for years and we talked years that when I was writing crazy Apple rumors
1:33:25We talked about like doing a book, but I could never get my act together and couldn't figure out what the heck to write
1:33:30and so cliff saw that article and he's like hey, you know, I think we should do a Minecraft book and and
1:33:35Get some other people to do
1:33:38some different sections and be relatively easy to put together so
1:33:41Let's do it. So he so when we talked to WWDC when I was down there in San Francisco
1:33:48San Francisco, which is where they're where peach pit is based and
1:33:55basically wrote it over the summer and into the fall and
1:33:58Then did the video production how big how big is your section?
1:34:05Think my sections about 40 plus pages 40 to 50 pages something like that. So it's not
1:34:11Not huge. No. No, it's not huge. All right, but it takes time
1:34:17Oh, yeah, so it's an interesting it's an interesting process and all of it, you know all of it in word
1:34:22Which is not my I would that's one of the questions I strength anymore
1:34:27I mean I used to be okay on it, but you know they do these people book production companies they
1:34:33They really
1:34:36They're all in on word. Yeah, it's not just well
1:34:39We need we just all need to agree on a file format that we all can read
1:34:44It's because they're like that the change tracking. Yeah, it's mostly
1:34:48I think that probably the biggest thing is the train change tracking and then after that it's formatting
1:34:53stuff I don't because they have all these so they have all their
1:34:57their templates built into
1:35:00word already, so they provided me a template and I typed into the template and
1:35:06Then you know I would use they had macros that would do formatting stuff
1:35:13So yeah, it's a I mean that part
1:35:17I'm curious about I'm curious because I am a writer I have written a lot. I think I
1:35:24I think I did a word count I exported everything from daring fireball before XOXO. I didn't
1:35:32actually include this in my talk but because my talk at XOXO was about what it's like to
1:35:36have written during fireball you know how I built it into a business and you know the
1:35:39last 12 years or whatever but I was curious because Jim Kudol asked me a couple months
1:35:44He was like what how much have you written it during fireball and I'd never counted before so I wrote a script
1:35:49I exported everything from the linked list and from my articles and then I wrote a script that cut out all the
1:35:54Block quoted material so the block quotes didn't count. Hey, and it was
1:36:00remarkably even it was a little bit over 900,000 words for both linked list entries and my like
1:36:07column length entries
1:36:09So it's you know close to looks like maybe like within the next year
1:36:14I'll cross like the two million words mark, which sounds like a lot of words
1:36:19That's a lot of that is a lot of words. It really does. It's not
1:36:22No sounds sounds like about it. All right, and the basic I've googled this many times
1:36:29But the you know books obviously vary great with greatly in length
1:36:32But like the typical length of a book is somewhere around like 60 to 80 thousand words
1:36:37You know for like a novel or something like that
1:36:39So it's you know, like the equivalent of a lot of books
1:36:44Yeah, but on the other hand, but I've never written I've never written anything in my life
1:36:48That's more than maybe four thousand words and I don't know that I can like I eat when I was younger
1:36:53I used to think well eventually you'll have to write a book because that's if you want to be a writer
1:36:58Ultimately, you think you got it. You got to write a book
1:37:00But you know, I don't know I'm getting pretty old and I haven't written a book
1:37:05It's really just I mean particularly for something like this. It's it's just a it's like you're writing a series of articles
1:37:11You know I wrote different. I wrote a number of different sections about different topics and so each one was
1:37:18Its own little thing I also think though
1:37:22And I don't want to be too much like the princess and the P, but I don't know that I could bring myself to
1:37:26working with word I
1:37:29Really that was really and that sounds so my struggles with my hardware over the video
1:37:35production part which is really just my own fault. The word part is was not my
1:37:40favorite. I you know I'm so picky about what I write that I invented a thing
1:37:45that people use. I invented markdown specifically because I wasn't happy with
1:37:49what happened before that you know. I can't imagine writing anything long-form
1:37:53not in markdown and it seems like writing in markdown and then going and
1:37:58you know moving it into word would be such a huge pain in the ass. It is I
1:38:01I tried that at first and then I was like,
1:38:03okay, this is not working.
1:38:04- Right, and it doesn't work because
1:38:07once you have to make edits, you can't go back.
1:38:12- Right.
1:38:13- 'Cause that's actually, you know,
1:38:15like to go back 10 years, 'cause I think we're,
1:38:18I think this fall is the 10 year anniversary
1:38:21of Markdown 1.0, but the public beta came out
1:38:24like in February, so we're past 10 years
1:38:26of like public Markdown.
1:38:29But before Markdown was Markdown, it was a series of filters I had in BB Edit that were
1:38:39like one way.
1:38:41I would start by writing Markdown, like a very prototypical early version of Markdown
1:38:47that was mostly just like automatically putting paragraph tags in between blank lines and
1:38:53asterisks for italics and some kind of shorthand for links.
1:38:59So, I would write that way and then I would run my, you know, I didn't even have a name
1:39:03for it, but I would run the script and it would turn it into HTML and then I would copy
1:39:08and paste the HTML into movable type.
1:39:11But that grew, it didn't last long because I would think I was done with the article
1:39:17but then it's like, "No, I'm not really.
1:39:19I have thought of something new and I want to go back."
1:39:21But it's too late because now it's already in HTML and I'm stuck writing HTML, which
1:39:24is the whole reason I started writing the script in the first place to let me use asterisks
1:39:28And stuff like that. Mm-hmm and it would be even worse
1:39:31I think it would be even worse to do it with something that's rich text like like yeah word
1:39:36Yeah, and I know there are probably think there are there are some tools out there that try and help you with that process
1:39:41but oh, you know, I
1:39:43just I gave up and
1:39:46Went ahead and I saw you had stir
1:39:48I actually started writing in bbedit with markdown
1:39:51Right, and then when I got to the point where I went I went to move the first section into word
1:39:57It was like, okay, this is not gonna work at all. No
1:39:59But if you wrote your own book
1:40:03You wouldn't yeah in you don't really use right, right? I don't have to you know
1:40:08Go to someone like peach pet and yeah use their existing process
1:40:11I mean, I'm sure that there's obviously a way that I could I could just self-publish my own book at this point
1:40:15And I can do pretty well, but I mean I would be surprised if David Sparks actually writes in word. Ah
1:40:19Yeah, I should be the guy to talk to you it would actually almost be
1:40:25hypocritical since like his you know he's written a really really good markdown
1:40:33book yeah it would be kind of hypocritical if he hadn't written it in
1:40:36markdown and plus II think he uses I books author right he has recently so
1:40:42what would be the point I should find there'd be no there would be no point
1:40:46going to work I wouldn't even be surprised I did read his book and it's
1:40:49excellent I'll put a link to David's parts markdown book in the show notes
1:40:52but I'm trying to bulk up the show notes.
1:40:55I've noticed that a lot of the podcasts
1:40:58I like have these copious show notes
1:41:00that are, you know,
1:41:01just full of links. - That's my value add
1:41:03to the two podcasts that I'm on.
1:41:05- And I suffer from podcast amnesia.
1:41:08As soon as I'm done recording a podcast,
1:41:09I don't even remember what the hell we talked about.
1:41:11- Well, I have to listen to it again.
1:41:13- See, that's-- - That's the only way.
1:41:15The only way I can do it.
1:41:16- All right.
1:41:17But anyway, I'll try, I'll put a link to it.
1:41:19But I wouldn't even be surprised.
1:41:20I did read his book,
1:41:21I have vague recollection that maybe he even included something about how he wrote the book
1:41:26You know that his production, you know, yeah, and the other person who might know serenity Caldwell
1:41:33She knows very well versed in the Ike. I don't public. Yeah. I think she knows more about ebook in town than
1:41:41Anybody I love there's anybody who knows more than serenity. I'd like to meet them
1:41:45Yeah, I remember her her Singleton talk from two years ago about the the nitty-gritty details of trying to write
1:41:53trying to create an e-book just for like just for like
1:41:56EPUB and
1:42:01Kindles Moby and it was like oh my god. What a nightmare. Yeah
1:42:05like if you thought it was bad back in the days when you had this special case Internet Explorer and Netscape, it's like
1:42:11Imagine if one uses HTML and one doesn't even use
1:42:14So anyway anyway now you use word
1:42:20Right well my well my I've used word
1:42:25My license is now lapsed since I'm done writing. I don't even know what I don't know what it's later
1:42:33I'll get the license again, but I don't even know what word looks like these days
1:42:36Is it is it the case does everybody Peach Pit use max doesn't matter is it is it is like word at a state?
1:42:42I don't think they all use Macs.
1:42:45I don't.
1:42:47We work.
1:42:48So the two people that I worked with at Peach Pit were Cliff, who was really basically putting
1:42:53the deal together, you know, bringing the people together.
1:42:57And then we had sort of a project manager who I think is actually not a Peach Pit employee,
1:43:04someone that they contract with.
1:43:05So and I'm pretty sure she did not use a Mac, but I think Cliff definitely uses a Mac.
1:43:11So, I don't know, I think they're probably, I bet it's a mixed environment.
1:43:18I think, I would think that most of the, I don't know, I don't know actually, it seems
1:43:25like a lot of this stuff must end up going to Adobe at some point, right?
1:43:31I would guess, yeah.
1:43:32I would guess that the book is probably actually laid out with InDesign.
1:43:35Yeah.
1:43:36Or at least the print book.
1:43:37Right.
1:43:38I don't know.
1:43:40It just seems, I don't know.
1:43:41But the other thing I'll mention
1:43:43while we're promoting the book,
1:43:45if you go to Peach Pit to buy your book,
1:43:47they have a really sweet deal
1:43:49where you can get the print version
1:43:52and a package of eBooks,
1:43:56EPUB, which works in iBooks,
1:44:00Moby, which will work on any of your Kindles,
1:44:03either your app or your actual Kindle device, and a PDF.
1:44:09They're not like DRM or anything like that
1:44:11They just put a watermark on it that you know is registered to your name so that you know
1:44:15If you share it you would be you wouldn't be tempted to share it publicly publicly shamed
1:44:20Right and well probably taken to prison
1:44:22But which is to me the the best way to do ebooks, you know
1:44:29and I know there's other companies like O'Reilly that do that and I know that our friends that
1:44:32Take control the tidbits folks, you know that they send their you know
1:44:37Their brains are all cross-platform and no DRM and stuff. Yeah, but that's the best deal in my opinion
1:44:43$21.59
1:44:46$21.59 and you get it all. Yeah, which is a really good deal
1:44:50Yeah
1:44:51And just to be clear
1:44:52But we wrap it up that when you go if you go to like the iBook store and search for molt
1:44:56Minecraft two books show up. No, I swear I'm trying to help you out here trying to
1:45:02You search for moltz minecraft two books show up and one's more expensive than the other
1:45:06that's because the one that's more expensive is the one with all three of your contributions and don't buy both because
1:45:12Your book is just the introduction section of the yes
1:45:15So I'm I for my my section is the first section of the whole book, right? Right. Let's take a break
1:45:20I have one more sponsor to thank
1:45:22And then we'll wrap up the show, but I want to say thanks to our next sponsor and it's our good friends at igloo
1:45:31igloo is an intranet you'll actually like.
1:45:35That's their slogan. I say it's the intranet you'll actually like because I've never
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1:46:23because that's to me one of the little ironies of
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1:46:33supported the new sizes automatically and didn't have to be redesigned like native apps
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1:46:56works from your phone. Here's the other thing they want me to talk about. And again, I mentioned
1:47:01this the last time they sponsored the show. I don't really know much about the Enterprise.
1:47:04I've never worked in the Enterprise. But this is a big deal. This Gartner Magic Quadrant
1:47:09Report. Just earlier this month, Gartner released their 2014 edition of this. And it's their
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1:47:28tech giants like Microsoft, IBM, Google, VMware, Salesforce, and SAP. All these big companies,
1:47:36you know, these big huge conglomerate type companies like Salesforce and SAP, right alongside
1:47:40them, is our little friends at Igloo. Because their product stands right up with those guys.
1:47:46really does. So the Gartner report values things like the size of the vendor.
1:47:51Gartner calls that viability and igloo is praised by Gartner for their
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1:48:20They also praised the responsiveness of igloo as an organization. So more or less
1:48:25bottom line that's that's Gartner verifying and vouching for exactly what
1:48:31what I've been telling you about igloo all along ever since igloo became a
1:48:35Darren Fireball sponsor. It's easy to use, it's easy to understand, it's easy for
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1:49:04internet that you'll actually use you know all their competitors the stuff
1:49:07like from Microsoft SharePoint and all that crap.
1:49:10If your team uses that, there's evidence that shows that what people on your team really
1:49:14do is they don't use it and they just pass everything around by email.
1:49:17Igloo is an internet that your team will actually use.
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1:50:01My thanks to igloo
1:50:04Yeah, as someone who has used corporate internets
1:50:07Igloo is is just slightly I mean I and I have used igloo as well just as a as a user on my own
1:50:15Not within the corporate environment
1:50:17But it's such a dirty word that it's really like their whole marketing is just based on we know you hear internet and think big
1:50:25pile of crap
1:50:26We're not that that's like
1:50:28(laughing)
1:50:29Rewriting their marketing.
1:50:31We know that when you hear that word,
1:50:33you think, oh God, here it comes.
1:50:35- It's just so awful that so much corporate software
1:50:38is so bad and this is an instance
1:50:42where it's corporate software,
1:50:44software that you can use in an enterprise instance
1:50:46that is really good and a pleasure to use.
1:50:49- Speaking of writing, long form writing
1:50:55and using markdown, you know where it's really
1:50:58taking off and I'm fascinated by it is with screenplay authors, people who write movies.
1:51:04There's two apps called, one's called Slugline, the Stu Mashwich is one of the people behind that
1:51:14and then there's Highland which is from John August's app company. Highland I think started
1:51:20more as like a viewer. That's John August's company is quote unquote apps.
1:51:27They don't use markdown markdown. They use they John and Stu and a couple other
1:51:33people collaborated with like a tiny like like a 1% sprinkling of a little
1:51:39bit from me a couple years ago. But they started with markdown and they instead
1:51:44made like a markdown like syntax they call fountain and it uses like the dot
1:51:49fountain file extension optimized specifically for the rules of
1:51:54screenplays. You know what a screenplay looks like. Yeah. It's kind of cool.
1:51:59And years ago I used and I tinkered around with whatever that that heavy-duty
1:52:03Final cut. Not Final Cut. Final Draft. Final Draft. Yeah. Yeah. And then you know and
1:52:09I've also used Scrivener which has some screenplay stuff in it. You can do
1:52:13you can do that in Scrivener as well. Final Draft is the Microsoft Word of
1:52:17screenplay writing. It's the 800 pound gorilla on the market. It is tons of features and
1:52:23the features help drive it and you know the file format is sort of a standard and people
1:52:30hate it or at least people like for the reason you know there's some people who love Microsoft
1:52:35Word. I'm not saying again it's the same thing with the phone sizes. I'm not saying that
1:52:38everybody hates Microsoft Word. Some people love it. I'm sure you know there's people
1:52:43who just really get into it. I'm sure there's people who love Final Draft but for the type
1:52:47of people who don't like Word and who would prefer to write a blog post in a simple text
1:52:53editor with Markdown, if you're like that, you don't like writing your screenplay with
1:52:59Final Cut or Final Draft. I keep saying Final Cut, Final Draft. And so instead, there's
1:53:04two of these apps and they're great. And they're friends, it's almost like a friendly competition
1:53:08because they collaborated on the file format, this .fountain file format between them. But
1:53:14very very markdown like just with some assumptions based on the rules of
1:53:20screenplays so like the way that in a screenplay a character name for dialogue
1:53:24is always all caps so if you write in all caps molt return that it
1:53:30automatically knows that that's a character name and that the next line is
1:53:35dialogue mm-hmm and you know if you want to put a word in italics you wrap in an
1:53:39asterisks, you know, just like markdown. But it lets you use, if you want to, you
1:53:45could just use something like BB edit and just write in a format that is very
1:53:49very readable in its native format and then you process it and out comes a PDF
1:53:54that looks like a screenplay. Everything's in courier, all the margins
1:53:59are taken care of and stuff like that. But you could use their apps and, you
1:54:03know, the slug line and fountain and it format does, you know, as you're typing it
1:54:07looks a little bit more screenplay-y right off the bat instead of, you know,
1:54:12pure text. But the file format you're saving underneath is just plain text and
1:54:17then you know you have that peace of mind like going back to our discussion
1:54:20about like the iWorks apps. Like 20 years from now your screenplay is still just
1:54:23in a, you know, plain text file. You don't have to worry that slugline is still an
1:54:27app. You laugh but it's... Yeah, no, I know, I know, I'm laughing, I'm still laughing
1:54:32having about the iWorks thing.
1:54:34Right.
1:54:36And the other thing, I think the reason that these apps have
1:54:39taken off is even though Final Draft is still
1:54:42sort of a standard, the basic gist, though,
1:54:45is if you're a working screenplay screenwriter,
1:54:51the canonical format that gets passed around
1:54:54as you submit your work and studios read it
1:54:56or even if you're already been hired
1:54:58and you have to pass a draft is a PDF file.
1:55:00So it doesn't matter what you use to write it,
1:55:03you generate a PDF and that's what everybody reads.
1:55:06And these apps create PDFs that look like
1:55:08perfect screenplays, there's no, you know,
1:55:10there is no system in place like with Word,
1:55:13with change tracking and stuff like that,
1:55:14that you are obligated to use Final Draft in that way.
1:55:17I mean, maybe some studios have something like that,
1:55:19but for the most part, it seems like a lot of, you know,
1:55:22working screenwriters can just use these apps
1:55:24and miss out on nothing.
1:55:27And it pleases me to no end that something I did, you know, and with no almost like 0.00001%
1:55:35input from me that these guys went out and made something inspired by it that is, you
1:55:39know, really solves a problem for screenwriters that Markdown solved for me as somebody writing
1:55:45for a blog.
1:55:46Right.
1:55:47I'll put that into books as well.
1:55:49Do you have any, well, I probably might not want to drop any names, but I mean, you know
1:55:56there's gotta be some famous people who are using these apps.
1:56:01- Well, John August, right?
1:56:02I mean, he made the app.
1:56:04I don't know.
1:56:04I don't know of anybody bigger than that,
1:56:06but John August writes Blockbuster movies.
1:56:08- Right, right.
1:56:09- I don't know anybody of any other.
1:56:13It'd be pretty cool to know, though,
1:56:15which summer Blockbuster movies were written with these.
1:56:18That'd be pretty awesome.
1:56:21Let me think about what else has been in the news.
1:56:25You know what, it's old news at this point, but Merlin and I didn't even mention it last
1:56:29week was Tim Cook coming out as gay.
1:56:33That was I guess about two weeks ago now, but I thought that was so amazingly well done.
1:56:41It's almost unbelievably how well that played out.
1:56:46It's not I mean it's in its I think I said on my website that
1:56:51It's nice
1:56:54for
1:56:56People who might be having trouble, you know, I mean a guy like Tim Cook is probably not really
1:57:00Having trouble as a gate, you know as much trouble as some other people are having as a gay gay people
1:57:05He probably did growing up though
1:57:07Yeah, because the south well, I even just leave the south out of it, but he's a little bit older than me
1:57:14He's I guess he's probably about your age right isn't he around 50. I don't know how old he is
1:57:19Yes, something seems like that. Maybe a little bit. Maybe slightly older all right. If only there's some way that we could look up
1:57:25We could probably ask Siri
1:57:29How old is Tim Cook
1:57:39Let's see, okay, I found this on the web for how old is. Oh no immediate answer 54 54 years old. Yeah
1:57:46You know, I grew up in suburban Philadelphia, you know, which is you know
1:57:53I think relatively speaking a little bit not certainly not socially
1:57:57super liberal but you know
1:57:59It's a little bit more liberal than that South and you know when I grew up it being gay was something that it just wasn't
1:58:06talked about really just wasn't I don't know when I was a kid it just I didn't
1:58:10really think it was I sort of vaguely knew what it meant but it didn't seem
1:58:15like it was anybody you know it seemed like something that like maybe one in
1:58:1910,000 people were gay I don't know it just seemed very very it just seemed
1:58:24like something that must have been obscure because nobody talked about it
1:58:27yeah and I'm sure the adults knew that it was more common but it was something
1:58:32that it was basically not talked about and I think people you know it's like I
1:58:38think in that era people didn't talk about it with their kids because they
1:58:42didn't want to give the kid the the idea I was the thought process I think I
1:58:48don't know it was saying in front of the kid because then the kid will become
1:58:50curious about what being gay is and the kid might become gay you know and
1:58:55combine it with works you know combine it with the fact that all like Christian
1:59:01religions are generally opposed to it. You know, like I grew up in a Catholic
1:59:05family and it you know the Catholic Church considers it a sin. You know they
1:59:09consider all sorts of it. I mean skipping church is a sin too but you know sins
1:59:14are obviously bad things and you know that was under that rubric. And you know
1:59:20people nobody was gay on TV and I know TV is you know is is not a
1:59:27reflection of America or of culture as a whole but it it informs it right it's
1:59:33like what what aspects of culture make it onto TV somehow are like this is the
1:59:38parts of society this is the parts of our culture that are okay and nobody was
1:59:43gay on TV which meant it was not okay you know it was weird it was a bad time
1:59:47I think about this with my son who is the who was the center square guy on Oh
1:59:53Paul and Paul and on the Hollywood scores in hindsight clearly
1:59:57He was as gay as anybody who's ever been gay and I had no idea I honestly as a kid this I mean
2:00:07I'm not that old but I honestly thought that he was just flamboyant
2:00:11Yeah, I did not I did not realize I had no idea just I didn't know whereas like and I think it's amazing
2:00:19In one generation that like my son is growing up in a world where you know being gay is you know?
2:00:26Just like yeah having different colored skin. It's just some people are that way, you know, and you know, we see in Philadelphia
2:00:33we see, you know people are gay all the time and
2:00:35You know, they are then friends at his school have you know, some of his friends have two moms and you know
2:00:41It's it's not even that he did honestly doesn't even think about it. Yeah
2:00:45I don't Hank's best Frank's best friend from you know since growing up
2:00:49I mean he met this kid when he was one or two, maybe it was two but very early on and
2:00:54He's got two moms and we were
2:00:56fortunate enough to go to their wedding
2:00:59Which was
2:01:01About a year ago. Yeah, it's just it's awesome
2:01:05I cannot I'm so happy that the world has changed in this way
2:01:08But it's you know, it's not like that everywhere and it certainly wasn't like that for Tim Cook growing up
2:01:14No, yeah, and it's in it's still not like that for some people and so they think that's why these you know
2:01:20Somebody who's successful like him
2:01:22Being able to tell his story is very important
2:01:25Jonas is middle school. He's in fifth grade now. He's in middle school. They have a club called glow
2:01:32I think this is so awesome and stands for gay lesbian or whatever. I
2:01:36Love that. I think that is so awesome because to me that
2:01:42It sounds a little goofy. It sounds a little fun, but it really sort of expresses the the to me the the
2:01:48Modern way of thinking which is hey, whatever floats your boat, you know and everybody, you know is different and some people are very different
2:01:56And it's all okay. I love middle school now. Well fifth grade is called middle school. I don't know. Okay, I guess yeah
2:02:03But I thought that's such a cool name and it's just to me
2:02:07Critimizes the difference between you know his world and my world
2:02:1130 years ago when I was in fifth grade because there was no way they were gonna have a gay let's go on whatever club
2:02:17It might be. Yeah
2:02:19You know and I had Syracuse had talked about this on ATP but with that the
2:02:25we've reached a point in our culture where where
2:02:28nobody everybody seems to
2:02:31Agree that you can't be
2:02:36against
2:02:38gay
2:02:39Right. It's it's like culturally agreed upon that. It's just you know, it's discriminatory
2:02:44It makes you a bad person to be against gays
2:02:47But you can still be things like against gay marriage like that's still like a culturally acceptable stance to take
2:02:54Yeah, decreasingly so though
2:02:57decreasingly show definitely
2:03:00And it's you know, it's catching up to where racism was. Yeah
2:03:06I mean some people even people who are opposed to gay marriage now have a hard time not
2:03:11at least saying that they approve of
2:03:14civil unions and right and once you do that, you're kind of like okay, what's the
2:03:19Right, right. It's right what you're drawing this difference between
2:03:23Religious aspects of marriage and civil aspects of it where but nobody is endorsing a point that religions have to accept it, right?
2:03:31It's just that legally it has to be called the same thing, right?
2:03:34And like like the the response so nobody really I'm sure somewhere on you know
2:03:41Obviously on the dark side of Twitter there where people have anonymous accounts at the you know, all sorts
2:03:47Oh, yeah, the ugliest thoughts that humans can have are espoused every second I saw
2:03:53well, I saw something that I couldn't figure out if it was I think it must have been tongue-in-cheek because
2:04:01The guy was saying, "Tim Cook is gay, so you should switch to Android, and if you want,
2:04:08I will come to your house and pick up your Apple products."
2:04:13And it was written, and it wasn't written as a joke.
2:04:17It seemed like there was at least a decent amount of text where this is an abomination
2:04:25of nature sort of thing.
2:04:28Reading like the bottom line was the guy was offering to drive your house and pick up your Apple products
2:04:33Like the culturally acceptable way to
2:04:41sort of
2:04:44you know not just
2:04:46cheer and clap your hands at
2:04:48Cook's essay
2:04:51What is to sort of take us and I saw some of this a fair amount of it is sort of
2:04:57Who cares this isn't you know, you know, this is why why why why make this public?
2:05:04This is your make your drawing more attention to to to the issue then, you know
2:05:08It was totally cool before you actually, you know, Tim Cook actually wrote this story. Why why rub this in our faces?
2:05:14I mean maybe they wouldn't say it that way but that's sort of how it it comes across. Why are you putting this in my face?
2:05:19Why are you making me think about?
2:05:21Things that I don't want to think about
2:05:25And it's again, I'm just riffing on Syracuse II here, but it's it's true like as a single person, you know one man
2:05:31However powerful he is that it doesn't make that big a difference that he's now
2:05:37Publicly out as gay and proud of it than before when he just never spoke about it in public
2:05:42it doesn't make that big a difference, but it
2:05:44Well, I think it doesn't make a difference to me particularly. No, but I said, I mean, I think there's a there's a
2:05:50There are a bunch of people. I mean there you know, it makes a difference if you're gay
2:05:54I think it but we don't live you know that we're not all isolated from each other
2:05:59Everything is related and in context, yeah
2:06:01And you know it and it does matter where we were 10 years ago and 15 years ago, right?
2:06:07It wasn't that long ago where it was controversial that will and grace had
2:06:11Two gay characters as you know, the the leads of a prime times network sitcom, right?
2:06:18whereas now that you mean it wasn't that long ago, but it
2:06:22It wouldn't be an issue now at all
2:06:24Right it's but we're coming very fast, but we're not there yet, right and it really does make a difference that there is a
2:06:32That one of the most powerful leaders in our country is out and proud of being gay
2:06:39Right. I mean how many how many kids are there right now just teenagers today in this country?
2:06:46Let alone other countries that are far behind us on this issue socially who?
2:06:52Are gay and are worried or even scared about telling their parents and coming out to their friends, you know, it's
2:06:59You know heartbreaking and it's still an issue and to have somebody like Tim Cook saying I I'm proud of it and consider it a gift
2:07:06from God is
2:07:08It's historic I really do think it's historic. Yeah, I can't think because I can't think of any other
2:07:15Executive
2:07:18He's done. I mean, obviously I follow up a lot closely than any other company
2:07:21So I'm sure that maybe there's somebody out there who's who's upset that I don't didn't pay attention
2:07:25There was a guy I don't remember his name
2:07:29There was a guy who was like a charge of a bank a CEO of a bank
2:07:31But he didn't come out until after he'd resigned and stepped down or retired or something like that and said that you know
2:07:37It's that it was really it was it
2:07:39You know as hard as it was and the other place that's happening now is his professional sports
2:07:44Right, that's all right
2:07:48it's uh
2:07:50Might it's it's because a few things that have traditionally at two places that have traditionally been fairly conservative that are now
2:07:57being forced to
2:08:00Open up about
2:08:03What's really reality? Yeah. I also thought the other thing that was remarkable not just that he did announce it
2:08:09But I thought it was such a well-written piece. I
2:08:11reread it's so short very succinct and I
2:08:16Firmly believe I'm sure that there you know, he didn't write it without any help whatsoever editing or whatever, you know and
2:08:23From within but I do think that it was his words, you know in the same way to me
2:08:29It was like like the the Steve Jobs thoughts on music and Steve Jobs was the other one thoughts on flash
2:08:35Where you could tell that that it was jobs writing it
2:08:38Yeah, right that there was it wasn't just his name at the bottom of the letter like like like what we know of Steve Jobs
2:08:45and his obsessions in the way he thinks really came out in those two, I don't
2:08:51know what you would call them, essays? Essays, yeah. And I can't help but think that
2:08:55this piece is so very Tim Cook in the way that it's written. There's a
2:09:03certain meticulousness to it and a tightness of thought and anywhere where
2:09:09you might be tempted to sort of roll your eyes at the sort of idealism of it,
2:09:14I think it's genuine. I I don't think there's any reason to I think it's genuinely how he feels that he truly feels like a
2:09:21social obligation
2:09:23to
2:09:25Our society as a whole to make things better in this regard
2:09:30Yeah
2:09:32Do you think that there's a?
2:09:34There's a reason now as opposed to earlier. I
2:09:39I do.
2:09:41I don't know.
2:09:43To a certain degree, it seems like Apple is in a better
2:09:49position currently in terms of public opinion,
2:09:51because the stock price is doing better than it was, say,
2:09:53a year ago.
2:09:55I do.
2:09:55I think that-- and who knows?
2:09:59Maybe he really only came to the decision.
2:10:01Maybe it was something he was thinking
2:10:02about maybe doing for a year or two years,
2:10:05and finally thought-- and maybe it just popped into his head.
2:10:07Maybe something in September made him think,
2:10:10you know what, I should come out because this, this.
2:10:14Who knows how long it was planned?
2:10:16I don't know.
2:10:17But in hindsight, it sure feels perfectly timed.
2:10:21- Yes.
2:10:22- Right?
2:10:23Like, in some way,
2:10:25if he had been out for 15 years,
2:10:32and had been, had like a long time partner,
2:10:37You know since before there was even legal gay marriage in California who accompanied him to events and therefore
2:10:44You know it had been out
2:10:46While he was coo not CEO
2:10:48It certainly would have been his right and nobody would
2:10:52Right-minded would complain about it, but it wouldn't have been as big a deal
2:10:56I don't think you know somehow it feels right and the fact that it it's
2:11:01How long is it since Steve Jobs is dead three years right three years? Yeah? Yeah?
2:11:062011 as somehow it feels like the right amount of time where the tumultuousness of
2:11:11Him taking over his past. It seems like this year and and think the transition period is over, right?
2:11:19Even though Tim Cook spent a lot of time
2:11:23almost effectively being
2:11:25CEO while jobs was sick, right? They were still you know jobs was still there
2:11:30he still had input into how the products were designed and made and
2:11:34You've gotten to the point now where no one can reasonably say oh that you know, they sure that's a good device
2:11:40But it was you know, but jobs had his fingers in that so Tim Cook can't claim it as it is own, right?
2:11:46I've long thought that it even before jobs was sick or what?
2:11:52You know, maybe he technically was sick because he you know had the cancer
2:11:56You know the whole period from when the cancer was first diagnosed until he died
2:12:01I guess he was technically sick the whole time, but even when he was feeling well, and they thought they had everything in remission
2:12:07I still think that the the delegation of duties like what Tim Cook did at Apple versus what Steve Jobs did Tim Cook was
2:12:14If you just described his duties to someone who didn't know their titles you'd say well, he's the CEO
2:12:19Yeah, you know and that Jobs is something else maybe the president or something like that, you know
2:12:25You used to be a more calm, you know when we were kids a lot of companies had like a CEO and a president
2:12:29You know, yeah, I think the CEO is more about
2:12:32Making company-wide decisions and stuff like that, you know stuff about the company and the bureaucracy of the company
2:12:40Whereas jobs clearly even when he was, you know healthy was more
2:12:44Solely focused on the products and product development, right? Right
2:12:49But even so I still the timing just seems so perfect because like you said I think the transition period
2:12:55Ended this year like the stock stabilized. They've they've they haven't released it, but they've at least unveiled a
2:13:01Holy of the watch which is wholly formed post Steve
2:13:05you know and it's
2:13:09You know, it's remains we've seen how it's going to you know, it isn't out yet
2:13:13But it certainly seems as though there's no, you know
2:13:16They're not unable to create a new product that gets people talking that's over the stock is back up
2:13:22and it just seems like people have finally shut the hell up about the
2:13:26Wouldn't happen if Steve were still around I mean not entirely but it's like we've passed it. I
2:13:32Don't know remember a year ago and I can tell you that you never I could look at all in my claim chowder files
2:13:38But there were a lot of people literally calling for Apple's board to fire Tim Cook, you know fire Tim Cook. He's terrible
2:13:44You know when the stall yeah, and yeah, you know, we're passing it. It just somehow feels right
2:13:51Yeah
2:13:53I'm looking forward to the updated edition of haunted Empire
2:13:57Has any book had a shorter shelf life
2:14:02When I wrote about it, I did I wrote I was like I really I almost feel like they knew it because it really does it
2:14:10Part of what was I thought was bad about the book is it felt rushed. It felt like the editing
2:14:14It felt like it could have been tighter and I can't help
2:14:17I think that they've run into rush it out back in February because because they thought it was gonna turn around, right?
2:14:23They they just you know, I think the writing was on the wall that the thesis of the book was already wrong
2:14:29Yeah gonna get out quick
2:14:34Last thing I only thing I can think of I had to send my notes as is
2:14:39This do you see this thing yesterday with the Twitter?
2:14:43mission statement
2:14:45- Yeah, yes.
2:14:46- Strategy statement.
2:14:48Well, and I think about--
2:14:49- Do you have it?
2:14:50Do you read it?
2:14:50- I can't even give me one minute,
2:14:51but I think about it as I compare it to the Tim Cook essay
2:14:55on coming out as gay and proud and how good the writing is.
2:14:59And I say this, maybe I value good writing
2:15:02more than most people because I'm a writer
2:15:04and I care about it, but I can't help but think,
2:15:05I have this basic theory in general,
2:15:07whether it's something personal like Tim Cook's thing
2:15:10or whether it's something purely business-like,
2:15:13like a strategy statement that good writing is the result of good thinking
2:15:18and bad writing is usually the result of sloppy thinking, incomplete thinking, you
2:15:25know. And here's the Twitter's strategy statement that they released yesterday.
2:15:31"Reach the largest daily audience in the world by connecting everyone to their
2:15:36world via our information sharing and distribution platform products and be
2:15:41one of the top revenue generating internet companies in the world.
2:15:49And I can't believe more people.
2:15:50I didn't jump on it right away, but I couldn't believe that I was the first person I saw
2:15:53to point out that it was not even close to fitting in the length of a tweet.
2:15:58It's 220 characters.
2:16:01Right?
2:16:03Shouldn't your strategy statement fit in a tweet?
2:16:05And especially if you're Twitter.
2:16:08It's so bad.
2:16:10I need to put it into it longer.
2:16:16Tweet longer, whatever that thing is called.
2:16:19It's so bad.
2:16:20It's really bad.
2:16:21I mean, it's, yeah.
2:16:23I really find it worrisome.
2:16:26I find it very worrisome as a platform that I really care about and in some level love,
2:16:31but that seems to be floundering at an executive level.
2:16:34know, there's just had some more executive shakeups like where they're
2:16:39that they've had like three heads of product in the last like two years and
2:16:44the last one they just demoted was only there six months. It's it's I don't know
2:16:50very worrisome and this strategy statement doesn't make me feel any
2:16:53better about it. It's like I wrote the other day about the net neutrality where
2:17:00it like to me President Obama's
2:17:03Statement on it was very clearly written and there might be room to disagree
2:17:09There might be a reasonable argument against it
2:17:11But I thought that his arguments in favor of it were very clearly expressed one, two, three four
2:17:17Here's the reasons that we should make sure we keep it keep this sort of not favoring one company's packets over another company's packets
2:17:25on the internet
2:17:28Keep it the way it is which has been that all packets are treated equally
2:17:31and the arguments on the other side from the cable companies and the phone providers are so
2:17:37Obtuse and it's like you can read them and they're their words
2:17:41and I know what the words mean but damned if I know what's the
2:17:45damned if I know what the
2:17:48What the meaning is yeah other than remember the old Saturday live skit with Frankenstein and
2:17:56Okay, the caveman and Frankenstein and forget the other one
2:18:01Yeah
2:18:03Well, they sang Christmas carols. Yeah, it was like Kevin Nealon was a caveman
2:18:07Who was Frankenstein, let's
2:18:13Remember and he all Frankenstein ever said was like fire bad
2:18:18I can't help but think that the argument and the faith
2:18:23Against this net neutrality is more or less a knee-jerk
2:18:26Frankensteinian regulation bad regulation bad
2:18:30It's basically it right and I'm not one in favor of red tape and bureaucracy
2:18:35It's not you know, I really think you have to see government regulation as as a continuum, you know
2:18:41gray scale from light gray to dark gray not
2:18:44Zero not not binary, you know on or off
2:18:49And these companies are regulated already would you know it's not like Comcast doesn't face some regulations
2:18:54It's who are the regulations kind of favor consumers and and small company startups or?
2:19:00or multi-billion dollar
2:19:03Conglomerate like let's stack the deck in favor of Verizon who may is making eight billion dollars a quarter because they really need it
2:19:10Yeah, and I can't I should the whole cynicism behind
2:19:18that I can't even
2:19:20Understand because so there was that that comment that tweet by
2:19:25Ted Cruz
2:19:28Yes
2:19:29Senator right from right from Texas grades day to Texas. Yeah, and
2:19:34He said it's the
2:19:39Obama care for the internet, right, right, right and let's not have the internet operate at the speed of government, right?
2:19:46And I tweeted something back to you know some I basically I insulted him
2:19:50Solted his intelligence is what I did
2:19:53And and you know and Josh centers is the editor tidbits correctly pointed out that he's the guy graduated like
2:20:02Magna cum laude from Harvard or something yeah, I can't remember what I think that's right, but and you know he's not
2:20:08He's actually not an idiot. It's just an asshole I guess yeah
2:20:14It's just a cynical, you know, yeah, he's yes for who's protecting his buddies at the big cable industries
2:20:21Yeah, it's he's like a cum-laud
2:20:23Laudé. How do you pronounce it? I don't know. Yeah, I guess if I ever went to Harvard I didn't
2:20:28guys like
2:20:30Well with my grades it never really came never came up
2:20:35Yeah, it's definitely not a dummy but he's definitely a cynical because he knows how to communicate at this sort of caveman level
2:20:44of internet, you know, government regulation bad.
2:20:49And that goes no further than that.
2:20:51And it, you know, it's the same people who think
2:20:56that the government should cut back on handouts
2:20:59and not decrease the size of their Medicare check.
2:21:02- Sure, and social security.
2:21:05- Right, it's the other handouts.
2:21:06- Right, keep government out of my social security.
2:21:09- Yeah, that's it, keep government out of my social security.
2:21:11Like that, you ask people if you think
2:21:13government should stay out of social security and you get like a 60% response rate that
2:21:17says yes, keep them out of social security. It really doesn't make a lot of sense. But
2:21:22anyway, I'm deeply worried about Twitter and their strategy.
2:21:25Yeah, yeah, I'm like thinking about the future of that does not make me very happy.
2:21:31Yeah, I can't help but think that the translation from whatever language this is written into
2:21:35English that the reach the largest daily audience in the world by connecting everyone to their
2:21:40in the world, blah, blah, blah.
2:21:42Something where they want to be more like Facebook
2:21:46is to me what that means.
2:21:48Because Facebook is more popular.
2:21:50And at the target of this message was not normal people.
2:21:52It was to bankers and investment people
2:21:54and people who've kept Twitter's stock.
2:21:59I think last I checked, it's slightly below
2:22:01where they IPO'd last year.
2:22:02So it hasn't cratered, it hasn't tanked,
2:22:05but nobody has an IPO and hopes that the stock
2:22:07is flat in the first year.
2:22:10And so there is some definite skepticism
2:22:12and that this is addressed at the people
2:22:14who have more or less kept their stock depressed.
2:22:16And in the meantime, Facebook is going up and up and up.
2:22:19And to me, the translation of this is we're going
2:22:22to somehow try to be more like Facebook.
2:22:23Whereas to me, the whole point of Twitter
2:22:25is that it's sort of an anti-Facebook.
2:22:28And whether that means that inherently
2:22:30they're always gonna be smaller than Facebook financially
2:22:32and user-based wise, so be it.
2:22:34But at least be true to yourself.
2:22:37and the whole reason that you've had any success at all
2:22:40is that you're not them.
2:22:42- Right. - Right?
2:22:43There's nothing wrong.
2:22:44Sometimes a great idea isn't going to be
2:22:46the most successful version of that idea, right?
2:22:49That Twitter, I think, is genius and is so well designed
2:22:52and so clever in so many ways,
2:22:54but maybe the ways that it's genius and simple
2:22:57inherently mean that it can never be as big as Facebook.
2:23:01- Right. - And so be it.
2:23:02It can still be profitable.
2:23:05That to me is the scary part of their strategy statement.
2:23:10Is that to me it somehow translates into
2:23:13we're going to wreck what makes Twitter, Twitter.
2:23:15- Well, it addresses nothing about
2:23:19what users like about Twitter.
2:23:21- No.
2:23:22- Yeah, and that seems to be,
2:23:26that to me seems like the thing that you should be doing,
2:23:28the thing that you should be doing primarily
2:23:32in your mission statement,
2:23:33and really only in your mission statement.
2:23:35I mean, that's what makes a mission statement pithy
2:23:40and makes it reach people.
2:23:42And I worked at a financial services company,
2:23:44but back when it was good, our mission statement--
2:23:49- Back when the company was good
2:23:51or when the financial industry was good?
2:23:53All right, I think it was the whole industry
2:23:55because you're talking about the whole industry.
2:23:57I thought you were gonna have to go back 300 years.
2:23:58- No, no, no, just the company that I worked at.
2:24:00And their mission statement
2:24:01was improving financial security for people.
2:24:04Was it?
2:24:05- That's not bad.
2:24:05- Yeah, no, it was great.
2:24:06- That's actually pretty good.
2:24:07- Yeah, it was really good.
2:24:08I mean, just like that's what people were,
2:24:09you know, they're like with taps into the thing
2:24:11that people are worried about.
2:24:11They're worried about their financial security.
2:24:13They wanna make sure that they can retire.
2:24:15And that's what we did.
2:24:16That was, you know, that's what we tried to do anyway.
2:24:19- Right, it's like a back blaze for your finances.
2:24:21- Yeah, right.
2:24:22- Right, let you sleep better at night.
2:24:23- Exactly.
2:24:24- Right, I'm not choking, right?
2:24:25- No, you're right.
2:24:26- No, that's a good goal, right?
2:24:27If you feel like your personal,
2:24:29family's personal finances are in good hands and in sound shape for the future and for
2:24:34retirement you feel better, you know, just drifting off to sleep at night.
2:24:38Yeah.
2:24:39You know, as opposed to being wide-eyed, white-knuckled, you know.
2:24:43What am I going to do?
2:24:46Anyway, we should wrap it up.
2:24:48So now I'm going to be wide-eyed and wake about Twitter.
2:24:50Yeah, white-knuckled.
2:24:52And we've already blown it with App.net.
2:24:54We've already let them sing.
2:24:55Yeah, right.
2:24:56We let that slide.
2:24:57Someday.
2:24:58It's something we're gonna do now someday. We're gonna come back hat in hand and they're gonna be like
2:25:03Sorry
2:25:06Screw you people
2:25:08told yourself
2:25:10like everything comes out everything you type into the box and app done that just
2:25:13JavaScript just turns it into told you so told you so told you so told you so
2:25:18told you so
2:25:22Well, I tried
2:25:24All right, I want to thank our sponsors igloo
2:25:27you, Harry's, great razor blades, backblaze backup, and of course our good friends at
2:25:33Squarespace.
2:25:36And I want to thank you, John Moltz.
2:25:38This is episode 100 of this podcast.
2:25:41Oh, really?
2:25:42Is that right?
2:25:43I had no idea.
2:25:44I was on episode one, you know.
2:25:46I do.
2:25:47I remember it very clearly.
2:25:49So it's a pleasure to have you back on episode 100.
2:25:52Where can people go to find out more about your book?
2:25:55I will be posting shortly on verynicewebsite.net about it.
2:26:00But if you go to peachpit.com and search on Visual Guide to Minecraft or my name, MOLTZ,
2:26:08it'll come up and for your Minecraft playing enjoyment.
2:26:12>> highly recommended for anybody out there.
2:26:15And I just know it because every time I bring it up on the show, I get an email from people
2:26:18in the same boat as me and where you were a year ago where your kid is obsessed with
2:26:22it and you're like, "Is he in a cult?
2:26:24going on should I be worried and I think the short answer is no it's actually an
2:26:32incredibly engaging creative outlet and and it is the opposite of like
2:26:38mindlessness it is it is super engaging and but if you're as lost as I am God
2:26:43buy this book so and otherwise very nice website dot net yes that's correct
2:26:50Thank you, John. Thank you. Okay. We got Skype acting all nice. Yeah, finally. Jesus.