The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Have you seen did you see the news that former Seattle Mariners shortstop Alex

00:00:07 ◼   ► Rodriguez is in trouble.

00:00:10 ◼   ► No trouble. That's yeah that's that's something that's some good spin that's

00:00:17 ◼   ► some good spin right there yeah who's he play for currently I believe he's

00:00:23 ◼   ► suspended yeah I heard that and and he's not happy about it no he's not do you

00:00:38 ◼   ► see one of the railroaded yeah well I didn't watch the 60 minutes thing did

00:00:45 ◼   ► you watch it I heard that it was pretty well and then I love the stomach for

00:00:48 ◼   ► that make a pretty good particularly this week the weirdest part about it and

00:00:53 ◼   ► maybe the part that again I always want to bring this up I try to put it in

00:00:56 ◼   ► terms that people who don't care about baseball might care about the gist is

00:00:59 ◼   ► this guy got suspended for taking performance enhancing drugs for the

00:01:04 ◼   ► entire season regular season is 162 games he got 162 game suspension and

00:01:09 ◼   ► that it includes the postseason just to make the point even if I think it's

00:01:14 ◼   ► pretty unlikely that if the Yankees made the postseason and guy had missed

00:01:18 ◼   ► all 162 games that they'd add them but just to make sure that there's no controversy about it

00:01:23 ◼   ► that the suspension explicitly includes that but it does not include spring training and Alex

00:01:30 ◼   ► Rodriguez has stated that he he plans to attend spring training and it's like the the the the

00:01:38 ◼   ► rules that govern major league baseball and the players association are such that you know if he's

00:01:43 ◼   ► He's under contract.

00:01:45 ◼   ► He wants to come to spring training.

00:01:49 ◼   ► He can come to spring training, which is going to be, needless to say, awkward.

00:01:57 ◼   ► And I follow a whole bunch of Yankees beat writers on Twitter, and they really had a

00:02:02 ◼   ► blast with it.

00:02:03 ◼   ► It was really funny.

00:02:04 ◼   ► They were imagining the questions they could ask Girardi.

00:02:10 ◼   ► he plays in spring training and has a good day like what what's the point you

00:02:15 ◼   ► know it's like you know you can't use him like it he's just he's taking up

00:02:19 ◼   ► yeah but they don't want to they can I mean they why wouldn't they change their

00:02:25 ◼   ► roster I mean they don't want to use a spot I don't know for someone was not

00:02:28 ◼   ► gonna someone who's not gonna play I really don't know what they're going to

00:02:31 ◼   ► do it's it's just seems you know it just seems like everything is set up for

00:02:37 ◼   ► someone to have the good taste not to show right except it's Alex right

00:02:43 ◼   ► exactly speaking of good luck with that speaking of good place I wonder if can

00:02:52 ◼   ► you play Venezuelan ball you know what people said that I don't know what their

00:02:57 ◼   ► rules are well I believe nobody's quite sure and I'm not even sure if things

00:03:04 ◼   ► like the like everybody knows how much money the players make in a contract

00:03:09 ◼   ► because there's you know it's part of the you know there's a salary cap type

00:03:15 ◼   ► thing where you get a penalty if you go over that's all public information I'm

00:03:18 ◼   ► not sure if all the details and clauses of each contract are public but it's

00:03:24 ◼   ► presumed that it's probably you know against his contract with the Yankees

00:03:28 ◼   ► that he can't play professional baseball elsewhere but as someone of the other

00:03:32 ◼   ► writers said well it's Alex Rodriguez you really think he's not going to you

00:03:36 ◼   ► know I don't know where I don't know where else they play in the same months

00:03:39 ◼   ► but you know go over and oh yeah that's well that's winter ball right maybe go

00:03:43 ◼   ► play in Japan you have to be playing already right I guess they're oh that

00:03:48 ◼   ► would be that would be pretty funny hey like somebody said they wouldn't pass it

00:03:52 ◼   ► put it past him to just play in that like a beer league softball league in

00:03:56 ◼   ► Miami yeah and just and they and they do switch back and forth between sometimes

00:04:02 ◼   ► switch back and forth between Japan and the US throughout the season, I think. Because when we

00:04:09 ◼   ► were in Japan back in 2000, my wife was writing for the newspaper. She wrote a couple of stories

00:04:14 ◼   ► about baseball in Japan because the Mariners were getting Kazuhiro Sasaki, it was the closer,

00:04:22 ◼   ► it was a terrific closer for us for a few years. And he had played for, I can't remember, the Hanchi?

00:04:29 ◼   ► No.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Blue Wave-- no, Oryx Blue Wave, that was Ichiro.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Anyway, he played for one of the local teams near Tokyo.

00:04:38 ◼   ► And so she went and interviewed some of the players

00:04:40 ◼   ► to talk about him.

00:04:41 ◼   ► And one of the guys she interviewed,

00:04:42 ◼   ► and I can't remember who it was, was an American guy.

00:04:46 ◼   ► And then when we went back home and were watching the playoffs

00:04:50 ◼   ► that year, Boston was in the playoffs that year.

00:04:52 ◼   ► And he was running around the bases like, that's that guy.

00:04:57 ◼   ► That's that guy you talked to.

00:04:59 ◼   ► So he played in Japan and then came and then I guess the Red Sox picked him up

00:05:04 ◼   ► probably in September.

00:05:08 ◼   ► So it's possible.

00:05:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Very strange story.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Uh...

00:05:16 ◼   ► Speaking of strange stories,

00:05:20 ◼   ► what's I guess the big news? We're going to talk about news and take the show seriously. I guess

00:05:23 ◼   ► the big news this week is Google buying Nest.

00:05:27 ◼   ► That would be it.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Did you-- do you have a nest?

00:05:31 ◼   ► I do not.

00:05:33 ◼   ► I do not either, even though I kind of would want one.

00:05:35 ◼   ► Mine is decidedly old school.

00:05:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:40 ◼   ► Just, you know, seems like a good idea, but it just--

00:05:42 ◼   ► and I never really got around to it.

00:05:44 ◼   ► It's not something that I really care that much about.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I kind of--

00:05:48 ◼   ► I work at home, so I'm never like driving home and hoping

00:05:52 ◼   ► to have the heat turned up.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Yep.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Yeah, more or less.

00:05:55 ◼   ► And I do kind of hate our thermostat UI, but--

00:05:59 ◼   ► Sure.

00:06:01 ◼   ► But like 363 days out of the year,

00:06:05 ◼   ► I really just want to hit up arrow, down arrow,

00:06:08 ◼   ► which works pretty well.

00:06:10 ◼   ► And the other two days is when it's

00:06:12 ◼   ► like, how do you switch it from sometimes turning on the heat,

00:06:17 ◼   ► sometimes turning off the heat, to sometimes turning

00:06:19 ◼   ► on the air, sometimes turning off the air?

00:06:21 ◼   ► And every time I have to do that, I get totally lost.

00:06:24 ◼   ► And I might be doing it wrong.

00:06:27 ◼   ► And then I think, I should buy a nest.

00:06:29 ◼   ► And then I figure it out.

00:06:30 ◼   ► And then six months later, I'm in the opposite.

00:06:33 ◼   ► It's not something I want to drop $250 on.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:38 ◼   ► It's just not that important.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Even though it does seem beautiful.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:43 ◼   ► It's wonderfully well-designed.

00:06:45 ◼   ► And it would be nice, but it's not what--

00:06:49 ◼   ► I've got other problems.

00:06:51 ◼   ► Many, many other problems.

00:06:53 ◼   ► And I've always thought it was a decidedly Apple-like approach,

00:06:58 ◼   ► not just because it's a bunch of people like Tony

00:07:00 ◼   ► Fidel and a lot of the people he's hired who came from Apple,

00:07:03 ◼   ► and not just because it's visually attractive,

00:07:06 ◼   ► but because it has come into this market and simply--

00:07:13 ◼   ► it didn't just come in 10% better.

00:07:16 ◼   ► It came in and looks 20 years in the future

00:07:20 ◼   ► from everything else on the market.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And nobody had really-- people might

00:07:24 ◼   ► mutter under their breath for a while about thermostats,

00:07:26 ◼   ► but nobody really saw that coming.

00:07:28 ◼   ► Just an overwhelmingly better concept

00:07:31 ◼   ► for how the whole thing should be designed

00:07:33 ◼   ► and work, which to me is a very Apple-like approach.

00:07:36 ◼   ► I mean, to me, that's exactly like what the iPhone was

00:07:39 ◼   ► to the phone market.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Completely rethinking the problem.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:43 ◼   ► It's what the iPod was to portable music players.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Completely rethinking the problem.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Screw this 10 songs in your pocket or a spinning CD

00:07:55 ◼   ► in your pocket.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Here's 1,000 songs in your pocket.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:01 ◼   ► And you can--

00:08:01 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:02 ◼   ► I mean, it seems like it's a good buy for Google.

00:08:07 ◼   ► But it doesn't seem like Apple missed out

00:08:09 ◼   ► on anything particularly.

00:08:10 ◼   ► No, and the reports are--

00:08:12 ◼   ► and I trust the--

00:08:14 ◼   ► I think it was Kara Swisher.

00:08:15 ◼   ► I know it was at Recode.

00:08:17 ◼   ► Do we say Recode or do we say re-slash code?

00:08:20 ◼   ► Recode.

00:08:21 ◼   ► Re-code.

00:08:22 ◼   ► I'm not saying re/code.

00:08:23 ◼   ► You know what, though?

00:08:25 ◼   ► Maybe this is the first time--

00:08:26 ◼   ► Somebody said that?

00:08:27 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:28 ◼   ► But it's the first time I think I've mentioned it on the show.

00:08:32 ◼   ► But I thought about it when the name was announced.

00:08:34 ◼   ► This is the former team of all things D is now re/code.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Re-code.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Is that to me, maybe I watch too many police dramas on TV

00:08:48 ◼   ► and movies like that.

00:08:48 ◼   ► It sounds to me like you know like they're trying to get these guys on the Rico statutes right now. We recode them

00:08:54 ◼   ► We'll get him on a Rico. You know isn't that what they how they lined up all the criminals in the last Batman movie

00:09:00 ◼   ► You know I think my wife who is an attorney

00:09:05 ◼   ► Immediately like she anytime anything like that ever happens. I turn to her and she gives me either the yeah, right

00:09:11 ◼   ► she'll give me either the

00:09:13 ◼   ► Not bad, or she'll give me the eye roll which is no no you know

00:09:18 ◼   ► Which is funny because when it's something like that legally comes up in a movie or TV show,

00:09:24 ◼   ► I will look to her and say, "Is this right? Is this even in the ballpark?" And she'll give me

00:09:29 ◼   ► like a... The look on her face will tell me. But whenever it's a computer related thing and I want

00:09:35 ◼   ► to... I want to...

00:09:37 ◼   ► Not interested.

00:09:38 ◼   ► No, she's like, "Shut up." She has no interest in the plausibility...

00:09:43 ◼   ► Shut up, nerd.

00:09:43 ◼   ► In the plausibility of their of their

00:09:46 ◼   ► Computer related plot points

00:09:50 ◼   ► Happy to accept everything that Sandra Bullock says

00:09:54 ◼   ► It was like the floppy network the floppy floppy was called the floppy

00:10:05 ◼   ► The Mac - the Mac - VX whatever the zip disk

00:10:11 ◼   ► It's just floppy to the zip

00:10:15 ◼   ► That's a nice product placement on that one that would have been a great movie

00:10:22 ◼   ► Anyway Kara Swisher at recode

00:10:26 ◼   ► I think was Kara Swisher but somebody at recode reported that Apple wasn't even really a serious bitter that nobody was you know

00:10:31 ◼   ► That when it came down to it, I guess, you know as often happens with these acquisitions

00:10:36 ◼   ► they were going for a second round of VC funding at a higher valuation and

00:10:40 ◼   ► you know rather than take another round of funding Google is like look we'll just we'll just buy you up

00:10:44 ◼   ► For 3.2 billion dollars which I believe is

00:10:51 ◼   ► You know, you know, it's like it's all relative and it's you know, it's like well

00:10:56 ◼   ► That's not that much because they spent 12 billion on Motorola

00:11:00 ◼   ► But it's actually the second biggest acquisition Google's ever made. It was I think overture the ad company

00:11:08 ◼   ► I might be getting the name of the ad company wrong, but I don't know four or five years ago

00:11:13 ◼   ► They bought an ad company for three and three billion dollars

00:11:15 ◼   ► and

00:11:17 ◼   ► So it is a pretty big deal

00:11:19 ◼   ► You know if it's the second biggest ever and and the when they bought the ad company it was so clear

00:11:25 ◼   ► Why they were doing it because how does Google make 97% of their money by ads online ads?

00:11:30 ◼   ► So, of course, they're gonna buy other ad companies

00:11:33 ◼   ► Whereas the Motorola thing is a little bit more, you know, why exactly would they spend 12 billion dollars on this?

00:11:39 ◼   ► What were they thinking and?

00:11:42 ◼   ► With nest I think it's you know, it is not quite clear why

00:11:47 ◼   ► Everybody seemed to jump on it immediately or at least the people I tend to follow who are a little bit more Google

00:11:56 ◼   ► skeptical Google

00:11:59 ◼   ► cautious

00:12:02 ◼   ► You know immediately thought and I have to admit the thought jump to my head is do you want Google collecting?

00:12:08 ◼   ► You know, I mean and there's smoke detectors too and the smoke detectors have you know

00:12:14 ◼   ► I don't know who knows what kind of sensors and presumably they could eventually add cameras to these things

00:12:18 ◼   ► You know that Google it, you know

00:12:20 ◼   ► Well, I mean but even without it even as the product stand today

00:12:23 ◼   ► With some kind of integration that Google would be collecting and tying it to your you know their sense of your identity

00:12:29 ◼   ► sure

00:12:31 ◼   ► You know when you're home for example, they definitely you know

00:12:34 ◼   ► That's the whole point of nest is that nest knows when you're home and adjust the temperature accordingly

00:12:39 ◼   ► You know that you you save money and you know save energy by

00:12:44 ◼   ► Keeping the house, you know not running the air conditioner or heater so much when the house is empty

00:12:50 ◼   ► Do you want Google to know that what could they you know, how can they use that to further show you you know, the creepy ads?

00:12:59 ◼   ► And it's for sweaters. Yeah, so if I was in the market for one now, I would really seriously

00:13:15 ◼   ► think twice about it. Personally. I got a lot of email and Twitter replies and I think I tried to

00:13:22 ◼   ► be cautiously neutral in terms of the privacy aspects of it,

00:13:32 ◼   ► rather than jump to any conclusions.

00:13:35 ◼   ► I tried to do the opposite of fanning the flames of assuming

00:13:42 ◼   ► that Google is going to collect as much intruding data as they

00:13:46 ◼   ► can get out of these devices.

00:13:48 ◼   ► That's not what I did.

00:13:51 ◼   ► But even so, I got a lot of @ replies from people who either A) immediately said,

00:13:58 ◼   ► "I have a nest and now I really deeply regret it and I'm thinking about taking it out."

00:14:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I got a couple of replies like that too.

00:14:05 ◼   ► And B) people who said, "You know, I was really thinking about getting one of these and now no way."

00:14:09 ◼   ► Now, it is also the case that the sort of people who write me emails or have even heard of me

00:14:18 ◼   ► are not typical consumers.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Disinclined to be.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Well, they're not typical consumers in general.

00:14:23 ◼   ► And B, they're a little bit more on the--

00:14:28 ◼   ► as Google and Apple sort of forge a sort of rivalry,

00:14:33 ◼   ► they're clearly more likely to be on the Apple side.

00:14:36 ◼   ► And part of that--

00:14:37 ◼   ► It's also about business model.

00:14:38 ◼   ► It's not just about taking sides.

00:14:40 ◼   ► It's buying into a certain business model

00:14:42 ◼   ► where you buy something and it's yours with fewer ties.

00:14:47 ◼   ► And people may argue with that definition of the difference

00:14:52 ◼   ► between Google and Apple.

00:14:53 ◼   ► But when you're using Gmail, there are certain--

00:15:00 ◼   ► and you're sucked into Google+, and you're

00:15:03 ◼   ► sucked into all these other things,

00:15:04 ◼   ► and they're trying to get you to accept emails from Google+

00:15:09 ◼   ► users that you don't know.

00:15:11 ◼   ► All this stuff, there's a lot of extra baggage there,

00:15:15 ◼   ► is always been my concern with it.

00:15:17 ◼   ► So it's that business model.

00:15:19 ◼   ► It's nothing about Google itself.

00:15:22 ◼   ► - Let's come back to that.

00:15:23 ◼   ► I'm gonna take a break right here for a sponsor,

00:15:24 ◼   ► but let's come back to the business model angle,

00:15:26 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like we could go long on that,

00:15:28 ◼   ► and I think it's a big part of the sort of divide.

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00:18:59 ◼   ► for your computer, you can do that,

00:19:01 ◼   ► or you can buy it stocked with drives already.

00:19:04 ◼   ► And I think unlike buying RAM from Apple where they kind of charge you a premium, I think

00:19:08 ◼   ► the drive prices that they sell are pretty reasonable. But just for example, you could

00:19:12 ◼   ► buy a zero terabyte Drobo 5N. In other words, you're going to supply your own hard drives

00:19:19 ◼   ► for $549. You could get a 5D for $699. You could get--here's the biggest one, 20 terabytes.

00:19:26 ◼   ► That's five 4 terabyte drives, 1,500 bucks, and 1,700

00:19:31 ◼   ► for the 5D.

00:19:33 ◼   ► But that's a huge-- that's 20 terabytes of storage.

00:19:35 ◼   ► You could get a 6 terabyte.

00:19:36 ◼   ► There's a sort of middle of the road.

00:19:38 ◼   ► With three 2 terabyte drives, you'd

00:19:40 ◼   ► have two open slots that you could fill later.

00:19:42 ◼   ► Just plug a new drive in, and magically, the volume

00:19:46 ◼   ► will just appear to be bigger when you get full.

00:19:48 ◼   ► 900 bucks.

00:19:50 ◼   ► Really, really good prices.

00:19:52 ◼   ► And it's just an amazing device.

00:19:55 ◼   ► So part of the magic of it is that it duplicates

00:20:02 ◼   ► the data across the drives that you have in the device, which

00:20:04 ◼   ► is how the magic of pulling one out

00:20:07 ◼   ► is that no one physical drive holds

00:20:10 ◼   ► any unique instance of a bit.

00:20:13 ◼   ► And then you put a new drive in, and it just sort of recopies,

00:20:16 ◼   ► propagates the data across it.

00:20:18 ◼   ► Can't emphasize enough how much it's a just works product.

00:20:22 ◼   ► They've been around for a couple years.

00:20:25 ◼   ► And I know a ton of people who are very happy Drobo users.

00:20:28 ◼   ► So check them out.

00:20:29 ◼   ► Here's where you go to find out more.

00:20:30 ◼   ► Go to www.drobostore.com and check it out.

00:20:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I've had mine for years now.

00:20:40 ◼   ► And it's just been chugging along.

00:20:43 ◼   ► Do you have all the base--

00:20:44 ◼   ► It's an investment.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Now I have all the base full.

00:20:46 ◼   ► So I'm--

00:20:48 ◼   ► It's one of those things that you bought it--

00:20:50 ◼   ► It's going to last me a little bit longer,

00:20:51 ◼   ► but it'll get to the point where I'm either

00:20:54 ◼   ► going to need to redo the drives,

00:20:56 ◼   ► because I'm just using terabyte drives.

00:20:58 ◼   ► So I could up the drive space.

00:21:02 ◼   ► But I have to reformat it because of the way I formatted

00:21:05 ◼   ► it in the first place, because I've maxed out.

00:21:07 ◼   ► Because I got it so long ago, I thought, oh, four terabytes,

00:21:10 ◼   ► I'm never going to--

00:21:12 ◼   ► you'll never go up to four terabytes.

00:21:13 ◼   ► No, never anymore than that.

00:21:15 ◼   ► Never anymore than 640 kilobytes.

00:21:19 ◼   ► So business models, I do, I almost think that this gets overlooked in writing about this growing divide.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Because like in the old days, when there, let's say the divide that you and I cared most about was sort of a Microsoft versus, you know, Wintel versus Mac sort of thing.

00:21:42 ◼   ► You know, there was a subtle divide where Apple was making most of its money by selling

00:21:50 ◼   ► hardware, but everybody more or less saw the rivalry as more about Mac versus Windows rather

00:21:56 ◼   ► than Mac versus or Apple versus Dell versus HP versus Compaq.

00:22:03 ◼   ► But everybody was in it to make money, you know, by people buying hardware and software.

00:22:11 ◼   ► So Microsoft's income from Windows and Office was people would buy a PC and the PC had Windows

00:22:17 ◼   ► preloaded and the OEM would kick some 15, 25, whatever dollars up to Microsoft for the

00:22:24 ◼   ► Windows version that was included and Intel got paid for the CPU that was in it. And it

00:22:30 ◼   ► was all more or less about people would make a purchase and the purchase price was higher

00:22:36 ◼   ► than the cost of goods and that difference was the profit for who made it. And so in

00:22:40 ◼   ► in fact there was still sort of the same, you know, it's sort of an old-fashioned, you

00:22:46 ◼   ► know, this is how commerce has always worked. Whereas with Apple and Google it is very different,

00:22:51 ◼   ► where Google is on this, we'll give you everything for free, for the most part. I mean obviously

00:22:56 ◼   ► like the Nexus devices aren't free.

00:23:01 ◼   ► They're significantly discounted.

00:23:03 ◼   ► Right, they are, you know, an unlocked Nexus 5 phone, which it's not exactly a spec for

00:23:09 ◼   ► spec equivalent to an iPhone. I think the iPhone is definitely in some regards, you

00:23:14 ◼   ► know, qualifies as a higher caliber device, but it's like $399 to start. Whereas an iPhone

00:23:20 ◼   ► is I think like $600 to start.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Something like that.

00:23:26 ◼   ► But for the most part where people see them as competing, it's, you know, they're giving

00:23:28 ◼   ► it away. And, you know, and it affects Google versus Microsoft too, where Microsoft is always,

00:23:35 ◼   ► know what hasn't traditionally made devices they just licensed the OS but

00:23:40 ◼   ► they do it for money whereas Google's Android you know is really disrupted

00:23:45 ◼   ► Windows by just saying here take it you know and you can either take it the way

00:23:51 ◼   ► we want you to take it with all of our services and stuff and we'll promote it

00:23:54 ◼   ► we'll give you the App Store or you know you could even do like what Amazon has

00:23:59 ◼   ► done and take take it as an open source thing and fork it and do your own

00:24:04 ◼   ► complete derivative of it and I think that it gets overlooked but there's

00:24:09 ◼   ► still there's still you have nothing is really free I mean I know it's one of

00:24:13 ◼   ► the oldest cliches in the world that there's no such thing as a free lunch

00:24:16 ◼   ► but you do pay eventually somehow and with Google services for the most part

00:24:21 ◼   ► you pay with your privacy you know that you get free email from Gmail but they

00:24:31 ◼   ► They don't just parse your email looking for spam.

00:24:34 ◼   ► They parse your email for everything and then show you ads related to it.

00:24:37 ◼   ► So if you're, I guess, I don't really use the Gmail interface much, but it seems like

00:24:43 ◼   ► if you're emailing somebody about buying a car, you start seeing ads for cars.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And obviously, a lot of people think that's a fine trade-off and they're willing to do

00:24:55 ◼   ► it, but it's a very different model.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:58 ◼   ► I mean, I certainly don't have any problem with anybody

00:25:00 ◼   ► who prefers that, who prefers a lower cost option that's

00:25:04 ◼   ► ad-based.

00:25:05 ◼   ► That's fine, but it's not what I want from my experience.

00:25:09 ◼   ► Right.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Yeah, and I also think that there's--

00:25:14 ◼   ► I'm completely with you.

00:25:19 ◼   ► I mean, I think no surprise there.

00:25:20 ◼   ► I mean, I think it's anybody who follows my writing or the show

00:25:25 ◼   ► would not surprised by that, that I'd rather

00:25:27 ◼   ► pay for quality and just be, you know, have the transaction be done, then have some sort

00:25:33 ◼   ► of ambiguous data collection thing behind it. But I totally understand how other people

00:25:39 ◼   ► would see it that way. If you don't care that Google is, you know, doing that and you think

00:25:43 ◼   ► this is great, I'm saving all this money on software because I'm getting it all free from

00:25:47 ◼   ► Google, I totally understand that. I don't agree with it personally. I don't feel that

00:25:52 ◼   ► way, but I could see how somebody else would. But I feel like a lot of the people on the

00:25:55 ◼   ► other side think that the people who pay like to pay for stuff from Apple or from

00:26:00 ◼   ► you know other companies they somehow cannot wrap their heads around that and

00:26:06 ◼   ► think that you know it and then they know then start down the road of you

00:26:10 ◼   ► know the cult of Mac and you know and I think to me that's the biggest that's

00:26:15 ◼   ► the bigger problem but there's also the sort of Walmart effect that where

00:26:21 ◼   ► because I mean Google moves into these markets and then drives a bunch of

00:26:25 ◼   ► people out of business and and then reduces the number of options and then

00:26:32 ◼   ► maybe abandons it right and they've done before they've done in several cases

00:26:36 ◼   ► before Google Reader I think is right the example that would resonate with our

00:26:42 ◼   ► audience the best that they truly deaf I mean they came into the RSS market and

00:26:48 ◼   ► and just devastated it.

00:26:50 ◼   ► I mean, and if they had had their heart in Google Reader,

00:26:55 ◼   ► it would have been, I guess, for the better,

00:26:58 ◼   ► or at least for people who liked Google Reader,

00:27:00 ◼   ► that there would have been one vibrant RSS reader left.

00:27:05 ◼   ► But what they, they came in, put everyone else

00:27:10 ◼   ► out of business by doing everything for free,

00:27:13 ◼   ► and then they lost interest in it, and it just withered.

00:27:17 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. I mean at least it's coming back a little bit now, but it's

00:27:21 ◼   ► You know, we're sort of in this

00:27:24 ◼   ► Period of regrowth from something that was squashed, right?

00:27:30 ◼   ► So what do you think I what do you think Google was thinking when they bought nest?

00:27:35 ◼   ► Well, I think there's there's this

00:27:39 ◼   ► Buying I mean buying Tony Fadal is part of it

00:27:43 ◼   ► Right, that's what I think. I really yeah, and it wasn't just me trying to write a column. That was

00:27:48 ◼   ► Not about data collection, but I really do think especially for 3.2 billion which again

00:27:54 ◼   ► Not that much compared to Motorola

00:27:57 ◼   ► But it's a lot of money especially for a company that I think is only currently at like a hundred and some

00:28:02 ◼   ► million dollars in revenue a year

00:28:08 ◼   ► It it just seems to me like it has to be a bigger picture and I just I don't I've never met Tony Fidel

00:28:15 ◼   ► But I just get the feeling though that he's a lot more ambitious than that that it was never about thermostats and smoke. Yeah

00:28:21 ◼   ► And they were invested Google Ventures was invested in

00:28:26 ◼   ► Nest prior to this and somebody brought and I haven't read it yet, but there's somebody wrote a piece about how that worked about how

00:28:36 ◼   ► What that how that that transaction works out when Google adventures is an investor in something that they end up buying

00:28:44 ◼   ► Yeah, and more or less panzerino, maybe yeah

00:28:48 ◼   ► But it more or less it's not quite like three billion dollars because a lot of that three billion or at least a significant chunk

00:28:55 ◼   ► It was there was their own goes to Google Ventures. It's a little bit of your left hand

00:29:00 ◼   ► What's the phrase?

00:29:02 ◼   ► I don't know

00:29:05 ◼   ► Rob and Peter to pay Paul I don't eggplanting is that what I guess

00:29:09 ◼   ► So correlated to the nest thing well here I'll say this why do you think Apple wasn't interested

00:29:20 ◼   ► Well, they don't I don't think they need it to the tune of 3.2 million dollars, I mean they have product people and

00:29:28 ◼   ► I mean, there's no doubt that Tony Fidella is a great product guy

00:29:32 ◼   ► Google really needs a great product guy more than Apple needs a great product guy.

00:29:36 ◼   ► I agree on both parts. I think if they really wanted Tony Fidele, they would have kept him.

00:29:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:43 ◼   ► And... and... and... but my understanding though is that when Fidele left Apple,

00:29:47 ◼   ► it was not... it may not have been singing Kumbaya, you know, I think it was slightly

00:29:53 ◼   ► contentious. But I think in a very professional way, we're not... I shouldn't say professional,

00:29:58 ◼   ► that's not quite right. But not in a contentious way like with Scott Forstall. We're Forstall,

00:30:02 ◼   ► Yeah, he wasn't he wasn't forced out right forced all was like a Game of Thrones type thing, you know

00:30:07 ◼   ► Joffrey, you know, you know some

00:30:14 ◼   ► There's blood all that's unfair. That's unfair. I call anybody Joffrey. I

00:30:19 ◼   ► Didn't even think about that

00:30:22 ◼   ► But I think he I think he was taken by surprise is more what I think I don't I don't I don't think for stock saw

00:30:29 ◼   ► it coming and I think it was

00:30:31 ◼   ► uh he was more or less cleaved it was you know yeah whereas angwith fidel it was you know like

00:30:38 ◼   ► a handshake and uh you know uh you know good luck seriously who did who did you know i mean

00:30:44 ◼   ► there was a rumor that i had heard that he didn't get along with johnny jive johnny i've right yeah

00:30:51 ◼   ► i that comes from um leander connie's new book yeah which i haven't read yet i do i should that

00:30:59 ◼   ► That is really, it really seems almost professionally negligent that I haven't.

00:31:03 ◼   ► But I haven't read that yet.

00:31:05 ◼   ► So I don't know, that might be true, I don't know.

00:31:09 ◼   ► It could be, I don't know.

00:31:15 ◼   ► >> Yeah, yeah.

00:31:17 ◼   ► >> I always thought it was a little bit more with forestall.

00:31:24 ◼   ► Even though forestall, by all accounts that I've ever heard,

00:31:28 ◼   ► really had nothing to do with the design of iPhone hardware.

00:31:33 ◼   ► But until he was ousted, he was the undisputed leader

00:31:39 ◼   ► of iOS software, other than Steve Jobs.

00:31:44 ◼   ► And that it all stemmed back from the early days of how

00:31:47 ◼   ► are they going to-- when they committed to build a phone,

00:31:50 ◼   ► were they going to use OS X and strip it down,

00:31:53 ◼   ► or were they going to use the iPhone OS

00:31:56 ◼   ► and sort of build it up?

00:31:57 ◼   ► that Tony Fidel and an iPod iPod OS or something like it some other thing like

00:32:04 ◼   ► a sort of an embedded systems type thing like based on Linux and build that up as

00:32:09 ◼   ► like a whole new thing and so basically yeah so basically the new wave of iPods

00:32:14 ◼   ► would be based on iPhones I well but but also I mean but Fidel was in charge of

00:32:20 ◼   ► iPods right and it was probably clearly becoming becoming clear that

00:32:27 ◼   ► that that division would be less important in the future

00:32:31 ◼   ► and would also probably be pushed into using software

00:32:35 ◼   ► that was under forestalls control.

00:32:38 ◼   ► - Well, they were, right.

00:32:39 ◼   ► Like in the first iPod touch and to my understanding,

00:32:43 ◼   ► I don't even know if there is such a division anymore

00:32:45 ◼   ► because I mean, who knows what's going on

00:32:47 ◼   ► with non-iPod touch iPods.

00:32:50 ◼   ► But like the original iPod touch,

00:32:53 ◼   ► which came out three months after the iPhone

00:32:56 ◼   ► was built by the same people who did the iPhone.

00:32:59 ◼   ► I mean, clearly software-wise it was.

00:33:01 ◼   ► I mean, I think the only difference was that

00:33:03 ◼   ► it had, instead of having an, like,

00:33:06 ◼   ► remember the iPhone for a couple of years

00:33:08 ◼   ► had an app called iPod.

00:33:10 ◼   ► - Right. - And on the iPod,

00:33:12 ◼   ► it had two apps, music and video.

00:33:15 ◼   ► But I mean, other than that, it was the exact same software.

00:33:18 ◼   ► So I always thought that that was my understanding.

00:33:20 ◼   ► Somewhat informed, I don't have any direct source,

00:33:23 ◼   ► no secret, you know, high level source who absolutely positively confirmed it.

00:33:29 ◼   ► But when I wrote about it, nobody--usually what happens if I take an informed guess and

00:33:33 ◼   ► I'm wrong, somebody will correct me off the record and then I'll try to correct it publicly.

00:33:38 ◼   ► But like the story I've heard and told and was never corrected on was more or less--Fidel

00:33:45 ◼   ► and Steve Sockerman and a few others built, you know, were just, you know, it was like

00:33:49 ◼   ► two teams.

00:33:50 ◼   ► went to build an iPhone that was based on like a Linux embedded system thing sort of like

00:33:55 ◼   ► Not who knows what the interface would have been like

00:33:57 ◼   ► but effectively like more like what we knew of then as iPods and

00:34:02 ◼   ► Bertrand and surlay and

00:34:07 ◼   ► For stall engineering and design

00:34:11 ◼   ► Went off to let's take Mac OS X and build something new that could run on a phone size device

00:34:20 ◼   ► and you know that's the side that won and when they did you know that was

00:34:24 ◼   ► clearly the new a team at Apple and Fidel wasn't really part of it and like

00:34:28 ◼   ► the way I remember pretty much the way I phrased it on daring fireball was that

00:34:31 ◼   ► you know the iPhone is clearly the new a team and Tony Fidel doesn't seem like a

00:34:36 ◼   ► B team guy and so I you know it wasn't like he was pushed out and it wasn't

00:34:41 ◼   ► contentious I think he just saw that he was no longer you know when he was

00:34:45 ◼   ► leading the iPod division he was odd you know the leader of the a team at Apple

00:34:50 ◼   ► And so he left, but I don't think it was contentious.

00:34:55 ◼   ► And I also think, and I think you mentioned the same thing, that if Apple wanted to build

00:34:59 ◼   ► a smart thermostat of their own, they could, but they don't need to buy someone to do it.

00:35:04 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:05 ◼   ► It doesn't seem like there's just, I mean, it wasn't as important for Apple to, I mean,

00:35:12 ◼   ► if they wanted to get into home automation, then yeah, I guess they could have bought

00:35:17 ◼   ► them but it seems like they could also just do the same thing for 3.2 million dollars

00:35:22 ◼   ► with stuff that they have lying around.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Which uh, well you know what I'll take a break. Let me take a break and we'll come back to

00:35:34 ◼   ► it. I want to come back to the Walter Isaacson thing.

00:35:43 ◼   ► Our next sponsor is app.io, app.io. Are you still using pictures and videos to market

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00:36:25 ◼   ► Vesper. We don't use it. I can't say that we use it but it is absolutely on

00:36:31 ◼   ► our list of hmm maybe and it it really is what they say it gives you it's sort

00:36:38 ◼   ► of like watching a like when you when somebody puts like a screencast movie of

00:36:43 ◼   ► the app on the website except instead of just being a recorded movie of some

00:36:49 ◼   ► actions the things that are tappable or tappable the things that are scrollable

00:36:52 ◼   ► or scrollable kind of black magic I have to say I did I heard it and I was like

00:36:59 ◼   ► how can that be it doesn't really seem right but it works so where do you go to

00:37:10 ◼   ► find out more go to app a PP dot I owe www dot app dot IO and and check it out

00:37:19 ◼   ► and they have some great demos and you can see for yourself yeah I'm actually

00:37:23 ◼   ► I'm playing I'm playing a game on it right now I will emphasize to that it's

00:37:27 ◼   ► It's like you give them your native app and they turn it into this thing somehow.

00:37:31 ◼   ► It's not like some kind of goofy toolkit where you build your whole app out of, you know,

00:37:36 ◼   ► web page elements or something like that.

00:37:37 ◼   ► You don't have, you know, you start by building a regular app and then they turn it into the

00:37:42 ◼   ► demo.

00:37:43 ◼   ► It's not like a framework or something like that that you have to start with from scratch.

00:37:47 ◼   ► So if you're an app developer, you really should check it out just to satisfy your curiosity

00:37:51 ◼   ► at how the damn thing works.

00:37:53 ◼   ► It's really pretty interesting.

00:37:55 ◼   ► It's computer magic.

00:37:56 ◼   ► Dot app dot io.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Yeah, that's interesting.

00:38:00 ◼   ► What did I say we were gonna come back to?

00:38:06 ◼   ► Oh, Walter Isaacson.

00:38:07 ◼   ► So Isaacson, Steve Jobs' biographer,

00:38:10 ◼   ► God, what a terrible decision Jobs made picking this group.

00:38:13 ◼   ► 'Cause now he's like,

00:38:14 ◼   ► everybody said before he wrote the book,

00:38:19 ◼   ► well, this guy's never really covered technology at all.

00:38:21 ◼   ► Doesn't seem to have any.

00:38:23 ◼   ► Now he's appearing on CNN talking here see ya right CNBC something like that now. He's an expert

00:38:29 ◼   ► Technology and innovation the I word man that innovation has got to be like

00:38:34 ◼   ► In the whole

00:38:37 ◼   ► Era since Steve Jobs died it this has got to be like the defining word of

00:38:43 ◼   ► Apple news coverage pro or con is you know this innovation everything is innovation

00:38:52 ◼   ► So he's on CNBC and what did he say?

00:38:55 ◼   ► Well a

00:38:59 ◼   ► Lot of crazy stuff

00:39:01 ◼   ► Basically even me basically saying that Google is now out out innovating Apple and that this

00:39:09 ◼   ► acquisition of nest is just another sign of that which I don't understand at all because

00:39:15 ◼   ► Buying somebody is not

00:39:17 ◼   ► innovating they haven't

00:39:20 ◼   ► Shipped anything based on that acquisition yet. Of course, they're pop, you know, I guess you could say that they're shipping nests

00:39:25 ◼   ► from Google

00:39:28 ◼   ► or will be as of the act when the acquisition is closed, but

00:39:31 ◼   ► There's no there's no new thing that's come out of this acquisition yet

00:39:36 ◼   ► And I think that's nothing that's innovative and the thing that gets me is that he compares it directly to

00:39:42 ◼   ► the iPhone

00:39:45 ◼   ► Finally hitting a mobile deal. Yeah, the China mobile network and China mobile is is not just like another

00:39:51 ◼   ► Carrier in China. It's the like

00:39:54 ◼   ► biggest by far

00:39:57 ◼   ► Mobile carrier in China and the iPhone hadn't been on it officially

00:40:00 ◼   ► I think the two things aren't really comparable

00:40:03 ◼   ► Well, they're not comparable. It's not the same thing. I mean one is a

00:40:08 ◼   ► As an acquisition one is a one is a distribution deal, right?

00:40:12 ◼   ► And it just seems to me like they just happen to be the two things related to the two companies that are in the news

00:40:19 ◼   ► This week like so in terms of the broad scope

00:40:23 ◼   ► You know big picture which company is more innovative than the other what what could be less relevant than just the two most recent

00:40:31 ◼   ► Bits of data that just happened to have come out the week that he's on the show

00:40:36 ◼   ► like it seems like the worst kind of

00:40:39 ◼   ► Trying to draw a cause and effect. Yeah, it could not be any more. It's so short-sighted like who's more innovative this week

00:40:51 ◼   ► This week in innovation including one of the companies which is notoriously

00:40:59 ◼   ► secretive yeah

00:41:02 ◼   ► The other one is open about everything right well not everything not everything but

00:41:06 ◼   ► likes to talk about what it's doing all the time.

00:41:09 ◼   ► I think anybody who would, you know, even somebody who would like to make the case

00:41:14 ◼   ► that Apple is incredibly more innovative than any other company, that

00:41:18 ◼   ► they're number one and that number two is so far behind they're not even worth

00:41:22 ◼   ► talking about. I don't even think that person would want to argue that the

00:41:26 ◼   ► iPhone hitting China Mobile is innovative. I mean, it's another

00:41:30 ◼   ► carrier. It happens to be a massively large carrier and but that nobody would

00:41:36 ◼   ► argue that that's innovative from a technology standpoint. It's just simply

00:41:39 ◼   ► a very large potential source of new iPhone users. It's just a business. It's a

00:41:45 ◼   ► business deal. Yeah. I mean I don't think anybody could argue otherwise. I mean

00:41:52 ◼   ► there's a bit of trickery involved where I think that the iPhones that they are

00:41:56 ◼   ► shipping to China Mobile are technically different SKUs because China Mobile uses

00:42:00 ◼   ► a bizarro they're sort of like the Verizon of China where they have like a

00:42:04 ◼   ► bizarro network spec network yeah and so the antenna is just tuned to a different

00:42:10 ◼   ► you know but that's but that's you know that's nothing for ya and then somewhere

00:42:16 ◼   ► inside Apple there's that there's an engineer on the antenna team who listens

00:42:19 ◼   ► to the talk show who's suddenly crying his eyes out because he probably had to

00:42:27 ◼   ► like solved Fermat's last theorem to get it working.

00:42:31 ◼   ► It was like the hardest thing anybody at Apple

00:42:34 ◼   ► has ever done and got like a gold medal from Tim Cook

00:42:37 ◼   ► and was told you can never tell anybody.

00:42:39 ◼   ► - Take this to your grave.

00:42:41 ◼   ► - And then Moulton Gruber just said, "Ah, don't be--"

00:42:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, screw that guy.

00:42:45 ◼   ► - Sorry, unnamed antenna engineer

00:42:53 ◼   ► who listens to the talk show.

00:42:56 ◼   ► Your work is very innovative.

00:42:57 ◼   ► We value your contribution.

00:43:01 ◼   ► And so here's the other thing I quoted.

00:43:04 ◼   ► This is a quote from Isaacson.

00:43:05 ◼   ► And I always want to be careful with things like this,

00:43:08 ◼   ► because it matters what he actually said

00:43:12 ◼   ► and how they phrase it.

00:43:13 ◼   ► So the headline that CNBC used is Google steals innovation

00:43:20 ◼   ► crowd from Apple colon Isaacson.

00:43:24 ◼   ► But I don't think, as far as I could tell,

00:43:26 ◼   ► he didn't say Google has stolen the innovation crowd.

00:43:29 ◼   ► That's the headline they've put on his spin.

00:43:31 ◼   ► He's definitely arguing that Google is more innovative,

00:43:34 ◼   ► but that phrase that they've stolen the crown

00:43:37 ◼   ► is them sensationalizing it.

00:43:39 ◼   ► But here is an actual quote.

00:43:41 ◼   ► "I think Steve Jobs would have wanted,

00:43:44 ◼   ► as the next disruptive thing,

00:43:46 ◼   ► to either have wearable-like watches or TV."

00:43:51 ◼   ► I mean, I shouldn't mock,

00:43:53 ◼   ► because I'm sure if you took the transcript of this show,

00:43:56 ◼   ► I say all sorts of things that I wouldn't write.

00:43:59 ◼   ► - Yeah. - But wearable like watches.

00:44:01 ◼   ► - Yes, it is really hard to do that.

00:44:05 ◼   ► - I think what he meant is wearable devices like watches,

00:44:09 ◼   ► not watches that might be wearable.

00:44:12 ◼   ► Oh, you can almost wear this watch.

00:44:15 ◼   ► It's really just an 11 inch.

00:44:20 ◼   ► - For some reason the band is only three inches long.

00:44:23 ◼   ► It's really just an 11 inch MacBook Air with a leather strap.

00:44:26 ◼   ► But it has a hardware keyboard.

00:44:30 ◼   ► Or an easy TV that you can walk into the room and say put on squawk box.

00:44:38 ◼   ► Squawk boxes in the show on CNBC that he was appearing on.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Dot dot dot or disrupt the digital camera industry or disrupt textbooks.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Now that's the part on my little post on during fireball that I hung on.

00:44:53 ◼   ► I actually don't know how the textbook thing is going with iPads. I think it was two years ago

00:44:58 ◼   ► Where they had the special textbook event in New York?

00:45:02 ◼   ► iPad or iPad author iOS boy. I hope that wasn't three years ago because if it was three years ago time is really fine by

00:45:09 ◼   ► Do you want to quick google that I thought it was two years ago, but

00:45:14 ◼   ► What's that thing I author what is that thing called I can't remember

00:45:21 ◼   ► God your keyboards louder than mine. I don't yeah, that's not it's not clicky. I

00:45:27 ◼   ► Books author

00:45:31 ◼   ► And I misspelled author January 2012 education event. So I'm correct two years ago

00:45:37 ◼   ► Didn't follow it up last year, you know, and that's a little unusual for Apple

00:45:41 ◼   ► It was sort of you know, it was like a one-off event. That was like nothing they've done before or since you know

00:45:47 ◼   ► It's just a sort of education event at a new location

00:45:50 ◼   ► And they didn't follow it up last year.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I don't know why.

00:45:53 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:45:54 ◼   ► I haven't heard anything about anything this year.

00:45:57 ◼   ► I don't know how that's going.

00:45:58 ◼   ► And I realize, just seeing him say that, I would be curious to hear from people in education.

00:46:06 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:46:08 ◼   ► They

00:46:10 ◼   ► They have a new guy watching them now

00:46:14 ◼   ► That's another thing we could talk about oh

00:46:18 ◼   ► We should have books the although that's not quite related to textbooks, but no I guess not right, but but anyway

00:46:26 ◼   ► I do think they're trying to disrupt textbooks

00:46:29 ◼   ► At the various but the other part about digital camera industry. I mean is he nuts have you gone to any sort of touristy type?

00:46:37 ◼   ► location any time recently and seen what people are doing

00:46:42 ◼   ► with their

00:46:44 ◼   ► iPhones and you know as I'm really trying to get over my aversion to it iPads as cameras I

00:46:51 ◼   ► mean it I

00:46:54 ◼   ► would argue that they've

00:46:56 ◼   ► Well, and maybe that's not quite fair, but I think it's very close that that

00:47:02 ◼   ► Seven years in the iPhone has disrupted the camera industry as much as it has the phone industry

00:47:08 ◼   ► I'm sure I just think I think a big part of it is that it's called the iPhone, but I've personally

00:47:15 ◼   ► You mean how much sense would it make for Apple to start making a digital camera right now?

00:47:20 ◼   ► None, although I kind of wish that they would but

00:47:24 ◼   ► way I

00:47:26 ◼   ► Kind of wish that they I wish they'd make a printer, but I would buy not for me

00:47:31 ◼   ► but for my wife I would buy a somewhat thicker iPhone that had a better camera and therefore I could

00:47:37 ◼   ► By making it thicker the lens could be a little bigger the sensor could be bigger and there'd be more distance from a little bit

00:47:43 ◼   ► more distance from the lens to the

00:47:45 ◼   ► sensor

00:47:47 ◼   ► But I completely understand why they don't want to do that

00:47:50 ◼   ► But I you know, there's no doubt for me that the vast majority of photos I take anymore even though I'm sort of enthusiastic amateur

00:48:00 ◼   ► camera guy are on my iPhone, but if you go anywhere just I mean like I

00:48:05 ◼   ► I was in

00:48:09 ◼   ► Penn Penn station

00:48:15 ◼   ► Grand Central station one way that has the Apple Store

00:48:18 ◼   ► in December and

00:48:20 ◼   ► I had a way to where I had to wait for a few minutes and I just was like walking

00:48:24 ◼   ► you know, it's a beautiful beautiful concourse and I just was just

00:48:27 ◼   ► looking at people just people watching and because it's such a beautiful concourse and it's a tourist

00:48:34 ◼   ► destination

00:48:36 ◼   ► You just people after people after people taking photos with their phones and all I could think is that you know

00:48:44 ◼   ► Ten years ago there'd be I would see almost no one taking pictures period

00:48:47 ◼   ► Because it's you know, people wouldn't have there. It's not like sure outside the Empire State Building

00:48:54 ◼   ► There have always been tourists with cameras taking pictures of the building

00:48:56 ◼   ► But now it's like people take pictures everywhere and they're doing it with their phone. I think it's one of the biggest

00:49:02 ◼   ► Disruptions ever. Mm-hmm

00:49:06 ◼   ► Here's a good way to put it if I had if the the phone on my iPhone broke

00:49:12 ◼   ► It's under warranty it's it's a new 5s

00:49:17 ◼   ► So I would take it to the Apple Store and get it fixed but I may not go today if the camera broke

00:49:21 ◼   ► I would go to that I would I would go today and yeah, I did that

00:49:25 ◼   ► I mean I had I had those I had like Dustin in my camera

00:49:30 ◼   ► I was getting these spots on my pictures to take it right take it right over

00:49:33 ◼   ► Yeah, one emergency because you know, you know, you might have a good picture to take tonight. Yeah

00:49:38 ◼   ► You know if I had to go away

00:49:41 ◼   ► For the next week and I had two iPhones both configured with all my stuff on him

00:49:47 ◼   ► And I had to choose one and one of them couldn't make phone calls and one of them couldn't take

00:49:52 ◼   ► photos. And now I'm saying literally the phone, the phone app that the, you know, the, the,

00:49:57 ◼   ► let's say that somehow the can't make phone calls but the data still works. I would take the one

00:50:03 ◼   ► that, you know, still had the working camera. It's way more of a camera to me than a phone.

00:50:08 ◼   ► I have a hard time of thinking these days about what Apple should do next, really. I think it's,

00:50:18 ◼   ► We used to have, it seemed to be easier five years ago,

00:50:22 ◼   ► or longer than that, like 10 years ago, I guess now.

00:50:25 ◼   ► I mean, the wearables thing, I guess,

00:50:28 ◼   ► but I have a hard time really wrapping my head around that.

00:50:32 ◼   ► It seems so much less concrete.

00:50:34 ◼   ► It just seems very ill-defined right now.

00:50:37 ◼   ► And then apart from that,

00:50:39 ◼   ► I just see too many problems with everything else.

00:50:42 ◼   ► I mean, the television doesn't make much sense.

00:50:46 ◼   ► So hopefully they got something.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Because I think there's something

00:50:52 ◼   ► to be said for the fact--

00:50:53 ◼   ► I mean, Nila Patel wrote a piece a few months ago now,

00:50:56 ◼   ► I think, back after the October conference call with analysts,

00:51:03 ◼   ► where they reported their results, where Tim Cook was

00:51:06 ◼   ► saying, again, we've got new things coming in the pipeline.

00:51:10 ◼   ► And Patel was pointing out that, OK, he's

00:51:13 ◼   ► been saying this for kind of a while now.

00:51:16 ◼   ► And I think there's something to that,

00:51:20 ◼   ► that we're kind of getting to the point where

00:51:22 ◼   ► it would kind of be nice if they introduced

00:51:25 ◼   ► something completely new.

00:51:28 ◼   ► I don't think they have to to do well.

00:51:31 ◼   ► But it's kind of to the point where we're

00:51:35 ◼   ► sort of expecting something.

00:51:37 ◼   ► I think Patel's column on that, it was kind of interesting.

00:51:41 ◼   ► I forget if I linked it or not.

00:51:42 ◼   ► There might have been something that made it.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I forget why.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Something disinclined me to link to it.

00:51:50 ◼   ► But it was not so much that they should have done something by now, which is the layman's

00:52:02 ◼   ► crude cudgel argument against Tim Cook, that it's already a failure because they haven't

00:52:07 ◼   ► already shipped something.

00:52:09 ◼   ► His argument was a little bit more about what Quick was saying.

00:52:14 ◼   ► Yeah, that what he says publicly, which is rare because it's not like he's on TV all

00:52:19 ◼   ► the time blabbing.

00:52:20 ◼   ► I mean, it's pretty much like going to all things D or I guess it's called the Re-code

00:52:26 ◼   ► now or whatever conference in June or May.

00:52:32 ◼   ► I kind of disagree, I guess, but somehow it does – I don't know.

00:52:36 ◼   ► like somehow Steve Jobs could do the same thing and it was a little bit more

00:52:40 ◼   ► death about it I get the feeling from watching him I think he's he's super

00:52:48 ◼   ► well prepared I think Tim Cook prepares for those things to a degree that a lazy

00:52:53 ◼   ► son of a bitch like me just can't even because I feel like he's he's a little

00:52:58 ◼   ► bit more like good like presidential candidate where he's prepared for every

00:53:05 ◼   ► possible question and has an answer ready and it's all very careful he's

00:53:10 ◼   ► clearly an extremely careful speaker I think it would be shocking if he ever

00:53:16 ◼   ► slipped up and said something you know that he regretted I think he's

00:53:21 ◼   ► incredibly prepared very articulate obviously very thoughtful but it's all

00:53:25 ◼   ► to me a little canned prepared like he's already prepared for all of these

00:53:30 ◼   ► questions. Whereas Steve Jobs, he was...

00:53:33 ◼   ► Much more off the cuff.

00:53:35 ◼   ► Yeah, he didn't do many interviews, but he... I think it, like all things, Steve, was

00:53:39 ◼   ► off and off the cuff. I think that like the famous trucks, cars analogy, I wouldn't be

00:53:45 ◼   ► surprised if he'd made that before. I don't think it was completely wholly new to his brain.

00:53:49 ◼   ► But I do think just watching the video, I forget, I just watched it a couple weeks ago again.

00:53:54 ◼   ► it was a little bit more off the cuff.

00:53:59 ◼   ► And I think he was a little bit--

00:54:00 ◼   ► I think his mind worked so fast that he was--

00:54:05 ◼   ► again, I would have been surprised if he'd

00:54:07 ◼   ► said anything he regretted insofar as hinting

00:54:10 ◼   ► at Apple's future play.

00:54:12 ◼   ► But he had a different-- just had

00:54:16 ◼   ► a different way of talking about the future than Tim Cook does.

00:54:19 ◼   ► And I can see that there's sort of a--

00:54:21 ◼   ► that Tim Cook is maybe teasing a little bit.

00:54:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:54:26 ◼   ► - The thing that used to drive people nuts about Jobs

00:54:28 ◼   ► and that Tim Cook, to my knowledge, hasn't done yet

00:54:31 ◼   ► is Jobs had that, and everybody knew it.

00:54:34 ◼   ► I used to, I think it was so funny,

00:54:35 ◼   ► but he would just completely trash the entire category

00:54:40 ◼   ► as being beneath anybody's interests until they came up.

00:54:45 ◼   ► - Until they came up with something.

00:54:47 ◼   ► The video playing iPod is maybe the best example ever.

00:54:54 ◼   ► I think it came to a fever pitch the year that they shipped the one they called the

00:54:57 ◼   ► iPod Photo because it had a color screen.

00:55:00 ◼   ► You could sync photographs to it.

00:55:05 ◼   ► And then the press asked him, "Well, what about why not play video?"

00:55:08 ◼   ► He's like, "Nobody wants to watch TV shows or movies on a tiny little screen like this."

00:55:13 ◼   ► But then why, A, why would you want to look at photos?

00:55:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:55:19 ◼   ► Right, why would you want to look at photos?

00:55:21 ◼   ► And then B, they came out of the video playing iPod

00:55:26 ◼   ► with pretty much the same size screen a year later.

00:55:28 ◼   ► And he pulled it off, like I think that's the sort of thing

00:55:33 ◼   ► that always drove people who didn't like him nuts.

00:55:35 ◼   ► But he pulled it off like somehow it was very clear

00:55:38 ◼   ► in his head that he hadn't contradicted himself.

00:55:41 ◼   ► Like, he believed he hadn't contradicted himself.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And therefore, it kind of felt like he hadn't.

00:55:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:48 ◼   ► I think it would have been the same thing with the iPad Mini

00:55:51 ◼   ► if he had lived long enough, because he downplayed

00:55:55 ◼   ► that as well.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Well, that one in particular, though,

00:55:58 ◼   ► was he jumped on a conference call.

00:56:00 ◼   ► And it was when the first rival tablet started coming out

00:56:03 ◼   ► to the iPad.

00:56:04 ◼   ► Might have been-- must have been 2010.

00:56:06 ◼   ► So like, the iPad came out in February--

00:56:09 ◼   ► was announced in February.

00:56:10 ◼   ► have been later than that because I think the first rivals were full-sized.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I thought that... I don't think they came out with smaller ones until they

00:56:19 ◼   ► realized that they couldn't directly compete against the iPad. I thought it

00:56:22 ◼   ► was later in 2010 and Samsung came out with the first Galaxy Tab and it was

00:56:27 ◼   ► like an 8-inch tablet or yeah like 7.9 inch tablet and he trashed it as

00:56:34 ◼   ► having you know really small touch targets and stuff but if you look at the

00:56:39 ◼   ► actual words that he said he wasn't saying small tablets as a general

00:56:42 ◼   ► concept he was saying these small tablets the ones that are coming out

00:56:46 ◼   ► right now that we've seen from competitors are terrible devices and

00:56:51 ◼   ► they have small touch targets and they're too fiddly and it was all true

00:56:54 ◼   ► and they were huge duds I mean even by the standards where the iPad still

00:56:59 ◼   ► dominates tablet purchasing and consumption and usage today in 2014

00:57:04 ◼   ► I mean, the first ones, the first Android tablets just were terrible.

00:57:09 ◼   ► I remember going into a Verizon store to see the first Samsung one and it was really bad

00:57:14 ◼   ► because they had no...

00:57:15 ◼   ► I mean, the apps weren't written for tablets at all.

00:57:18 ◼   ► And that's why the stuff was...

00:57:19 ◼   ► It really was.

00:57:20 ◼   ► It was like really tiny.

00:57:21 ◼   ► Either the stuff was gigantic...

00:57:22 ◼   ► Just the phone size.

00:57:23 ◼   ► It was the phone size stuff blowing up.

00:57:26 ◼   ► There was really, really small stuff and it was really fiddly.

00:57:29 ◼   ► I think it's fair to say he might have been a little poo-pooing smaller tablets, but his

00:57:34 ◼   ► His scathing criticism was about the actual ones that were on the market.

00:57:39 ◼   ► But yeah, he could have just trashed them in general and said nobody would ever want

00:57:42 ◼   ► a tablet.

00:57:43 ◼   ► He could have.

00:57:44 ◼   ► He could have just said no one would ever want a tablet smaller than this iPad and then

00:57:48 ◼   ► proudly introduced the iPad.

00:57:50 ◼   ► And he would have had some kind of...

00:57:53 ◼   ► And slept like a baby.

00:57:54 ◼   ► And slept like a baby.

00:57:56 ◼   ► I love it.

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01:00:09 ◼   ► I used to do all of our--

01:00:13 ◼   ► all that work, all the charting and graphing,

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01:00:53 ◼   ► What Excel is to spreadsheets and Word is to word processing,

01:00:56 ◼   ► there wasn't an equivalent for diagramming and moving

01:01:02 ◼   ► graphical elements around on a canvas, that sort of thing.

01:01:06 ◼   ► And not like Illustrator, where it's clearly meant for artists,

01:01:13 ◼   ► more of a general purpose diagramming tool that a complete non-artist like John Moltz

01:01:18 ◼   ► or anybody else in business might use. And that the Omni group is like, "Wait, everybody's

01:01:22 ◼   ► asking for Visio for Mac. Why don't we just build something like that but make it actually

01:01:27 ◼   ► like good and like a..." Instead of like copying Visio, let's do it the Mac way. Let's do the

01:01:33 ◼   ► same thing and stick some sad story engineer with the job of reverse engineering the Visio

01:01:40 ◼   ► file format because that was the thing right that they could read and write

01:01:42 ◼   ► Visio files but that was like the whole idea the idea for the app was like

01:01:47 ◼   ► everybody says this app is great and they want them to build a Mac version

01:01:51 ◼   ► why don't we just kill them and you know kill the idea by building a true Mac

01:01:56 ◼   ► version which would be any they've done the same thing with project management

01:02:00 ◼   ► to because they have a they have a great project management app right same type

01:02:03 ◼   ► thing where instead of copying the the you know the windows style of

01:02:09 ◼   ► Microsoft project it's let's do the same thing. Let's solve the same problem, but do it Mac style, right?

01:02:15 ◼   ► Great people you can find out more at

01:02:19 ◼   ► Omni group calm

01:02:22 ◼   ► What were we talking about

01:02:27 ◼   ► Were we still talking about Isaac center? No, we're jobs. We're talking about jobs and Tim Cook and the promising and what's coming next. Yeah

01:02:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how else you play it though, you know, and it is true and you know

01:02:40 ◼   ► I'm so glad that I

01:02:43 ◼   ► What I write about on a regular basis has nothing to do or doesn't have to be anything to do with

01:02:50 ◼   ► Speculation about what they're going to do as as we spend 30 minutes on the show speculating on what they might do

01:02:56 ◼   ► But that I don't need to you know, I don't know. I just feel like the rumor sites

01:03:00 ◼   ► I just feel like that's such a desperate dirty job

01:03:04 ◼   ► Large large iPad. Do you want to talk about large iPad?

01:03:06 ◼   ► In some sense though, I also feel like and I know that a lot of people have

01:03:17 ◼   ► Think it's sort of a joke because remember two years ago. I think Tim Cook said they were gonna double down on secrecy

01:03:23 ◼   ► And he seemed very sincere about it. I mean number one Tim Cook always seems sincere. He doesn't really seem like a

01:03:31 ◼   ► Like I said that seems like everything he says in public is very well considered and that the fact that he said that did not

01:03:36 ◼   ► Seem to me to be off the cuff, you know, he meant it and then things happen like, you know

01:03:41 ◼   ► the the gold iPhone case leaked and you know the the designs of the the

01:03:46 ◼   ► iPad mini and the new iPad air leaked

01:03:50 ◼   ► and

01:03:52 ◼   ► everybody says so much for doubling down on secrecy, but I think that that's really all about the

01:03:59 ◼   ► the large-scale ramp-up of

01:04:01 ◼   ► hardware production in Asia

01:04:04 ◼   ► That you wrote about you wrote about that before because you were noting that all those leaks seem to come from

01:04:12 ◼   ► Right and the stuff that they could keep secret like the design of iOS 7 they really more or less did

01:04:18 ◼   ► I mean there were rumors that it was going quote unquote flat and I think Mark Gurman at 9 to 5 Mac had

01:04:23 ◼   ► Some like really blurry

01:04:26 ◼   ► Screenshots like two days before it was announced but for the most part when they unveiled that video at WWDC in June

01:04:32 ◼   ► That was a surprise

01:04:34 ◼   ► I mean it was a really serious surprise as what exactly it looked like and how radical the the visual overhaul was

01:04:41 ◼   ► And I think let's face it

01:04:45 ◼   ► I mean, I don't is there anybody who believes Apple isn't working on at least a few major new initiatives

01:04:51 ◼   ► Well, nobody knows what they are. I mean, it seems to me like the doubling down on secrecy worked

01:04:55 ◼   ► that it's true. Seems like Walter Eise thinks maybe they aren't. Yeah I

01:05:01 ◼   ► guess so. I don't know. One thing about this little Nest thing is that I think

01:05:07 ◼   ► it spared us from a week of overwrought analysis on that new Apple ad. Mmm. The

01:05:15 ◼   ► what was it called? Yourverse. Yourverse. Yeah. What do you think? That's the one

01:05:20 ◼   ► that I liked it. I liked it a lot. This is the ad where they show footage of real

01:05:24 ◼   ► real iPad users from around the world. Other than the fact that it

01:05:29 ◼   ► promotes taking photos with your iPad and I liked it. I think that

01:05:34 ◼   ► I'm telling you I think that ship has sailed I think we've all got to

01:05:38 ◼   ► get on board with it. The iPad is a camera. People love using it as a camera.

01:05:43 ◼   ► I think Apple's got to get... Which is funny I mean it's one of those

01:05:48 ◼   ► things where we sort of nerdy pedantic people don't you know we don't want to

01:05:53 ◼   ► see that. It's like seeing the refrigerator repairman's butt crack.

01:06:01 ◼   ► Does it bother you less when people are using the iPad mini as a camera? Sure. It

01:06:06 ◼   ► does. I think the iPad mini... I do. It's all about size. I think that in terms of

01:06:14 ◼   ► software, clearly the iPad mini deserves and should run a slightly shrunk version

01:06:21 ◼   ► of the iPad software.

01:06:24 ◼   ► It should not be at this size, should not

01:06:26 ◼   ► be running blown up iPhones.

01:06:29 ◼   ► But when you're holding it in front of your face

01:06:31 ◼   ► to take a picture, to me-- and maybe I'm just getting more

01:06:33 ◼   ► and more used to it, but when I see people using an iPad

01:06:36 ◼   ► Mini as a camera, to me it looks more

01:06:38 ◼   ► like they're holding a big ass phone in front of their face.

01:06:40 ◼   ► It looks a little weird, but it doesn't look goofy.

01:06:44 ◼   ► When you're holding a full sized tablet, to me you look goofy.

01:06:48 ◼   ► And for some reason too, and I don't know why this is,

01:06:51 ◼   ► With the full-size tablets, I see way more people

01:06:54 ◼   ► who have the cover or the case flapped down,

01:06:58 ◼   ► which effectively doubles the size of the rectangle

01:07:03 ◼   ► with which they're blocking their actual view of everything.

01:07:07 ◼   ► And I don't see that as much with the Mini.

01:07:09 ◼   ► I don't know why that is.

01:07:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:07:11 ◼   ► But you can see, I mean, you can see more

01:07:14 ◼   ► of what you're taking a picture of on the screen.

01:07:16 ◼   ► I'll tell you what, I--

01:07:18 ◼   ► You can see it better.

01:07:20 ◼   ► I see so many people taking pictures with the iPads that I really think that Apple should

01:07:25 ◼   ► if they can, and I think it's a cost thing, not an engineering thing, but they should

01:07:32 ◼   ► get the iPad hardware onto the same camera train as the iPhone 5s.

01:07:40 ◼   ► In other words, instead of using last year's iPhone camera, they should get the iPads on

01:07:47 ◼   ► the top of the line camera.

01:07:49 ◼   ► And I suspect the reason is cost because iPhones have a higher profit margin because of the

01:07:54 ◼   ► way that they're sold with the subsidies that you know overwhelming majority of them are

01:07:59 ◼   ► sold through phone subsidies and therefore Apple can put higher you know that's why the

01:08:03 ◼   ► iPhone has the touch sensor and iPads don't that it can they can put more expensive stuff

01:08:08 ◼   ► in it.

01:08:10 ◼   ► But I think so many people use it as a camera that it's it's almost like Apple should feel

01:08:14 ◼   ► obligated to do it to help them take better photos because they're going to do it anyway.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And I've also heard from a lot of people whenever I bring this up, a lot of people have told

01:08:24 ◼   ► me that their family members, you know, in terms of why, why would you do this? Especially

01:08:29 ◼   ► like people who have a phone and if you have an iPhone and an iPad, you're taking worse

01:08:34 ◼   ► photos if you use your iPad. But I've had a lot of listeners of the show and readers

01:08:38 ◼   ► of the site who said that they, you know, family members they've brought this up to.

01:08:42 ◼   ► And the reason is that because the screen is bigger, the preview looks better because

01:08:48 ◼   ► it's bigger.

01:08:49 ◼   ► And so they think they're taking better photos.

01:08:50 ◼   ► Taking a better picture.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Because it looks better to them as they're framing it.

01:08:54 ◼   ► And so that's why when they go to the seashore and they're taking pictures of everybody on

01:08:59 ◼   ► the beach, they use the iPad because they think they're getting better pictures because

01:09:01 ◼   ► they see it bigger.

01:09:06 ◼   ► And so if people think, if somebody who owns an iPhone 5S and an iPad Air thinks their

01:09:11 ◼   ► iPad Air as a better camera. In theory, if they can make it work cost-wise, I really

01:09:16 ◼   ► think that Apple would do well to put the leading camera tech into the iPad.

01:09:23 ◼   ► The 28-inch iPad Pro.

01:09:31 ◼   ► Do you think they're working on a bigger iPad? That's a good question.

01:09:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:09:37 ◼   ► came out with a report like two weeks ago and I and MacRumors picked it up and

01:09:42 ◼   ► just echoed it and that the and it was an analyst who said you know they're

01:09:46 ◼   ► working on like a 12 inch or 11 or 12 inch iPad Pro aimed at the enterprise

01:09:52 ◼   ► and that is to me is crazy right because what I can see how when did they ever

01:09:59 ◼   ► come out with a product aimed at the enterprise right what's that how would

01:10:03 ◼   ► they even do it that would be like and it doesn't seem like that's you know I

01:10:07 ◼   ► mean what I don't understand why enterprise users would be crying out for

01:10:11 ◼   ► a larger iPad anyway no I don't understand I don't understand what what

01:10:17 ◼   ► they would think that why a bigger I you know to me if there's a one market that

01:10:21 ◼   ► you might want to target it would be like the sort of creative industry which

01:10:26 ◼   ► is more natural for Apple you know that people who are using it you know to edit

01:10:31 ◼   ► video in the field or to draw or something like that and all the people

01:10:37 ◼   ► using it as illustration you know I could see that as a pro market but I

01:10:42 ◼   ► don't see it I don't know I think even the name iPad Pro is is a non-starter

01:10:49 ◼   ► yeah the only thing I can think of and the last time I was at Mac world some

01:10:54 ◼   ► guy came up and asked me this after one of some one panel that I was on about

01:11:00 ◼   ► just for entertainment purposes, like sitting on the couch and watching a movie.

01:11:05 ◼   ► And we used to have part of our basement was finished and that's where we have our big

01:11:12 ◼   ► TV and we had water leakage so the whole thing's been ripped up for a long time now.

01:11:18 ◼   ► And so we've been relying on the TV that's in our living room, which is smaller.

01:11:23 ◼   ► And so actually when I sit on the couch, because it's so far away and it's smaller, my iPad

01:11:30 ◼   ► air on my lap is a bigger field of view than the TV. So I actually have resorted to mostly

01:11:38 ◼   ► watching stuff on the iPad instead of on the television. Unless, you know, if it's me and

01:11:45 ◼   ► the boy, he'll just like sit next to me often and we'll just watch something on the iPad.

01:11:50 ◼   ► Not always. We probably usually watch it on the TV because he'll sit down front. But I've

01:11:57 ◼   ► found that kind of nice in a way.

01:12:02 ◼   ► And I wonder if that's a different way to disrupt--

01:12:10 ◼   ► and I'm just saying this as I'm thinking it, really--

01:12:12 ◼   ► but to disrupt the television market is to go upscale,

01:12:16 ◼   ► rather than start at the top and try and--

01:12:20 ◼   ► you're never going to get a lot of action in that market

01:12:26 ◼   ► because those things turn over so infrequently.

01:12:29 ◼   ► I mean, when somebody buys a big screen TV,

01:12:30 ◼   ► they usually don't replace them that fast.

01:12:32 ◼   ► But if you have something that's on your lap

01:12:36 ◼   ► that you're using to watch entertainment,

01:12:40 ◼   ► and maybe that's more attractive to younger people,

01:12:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:12:44 ◼   ► - Hmm, it's a good question.

01:12:47 ◼   ► I did see one of the most interesting things I saw

01:12:49 ◼   ► in the CES coverage I saw was somebody linked to,

01:12:55 ◼   ► You know, it's just some off-brand,

01:12:56 ◼   ► and nobody you've heard of, some Asian company

01:12:58 ◼   ► with kiosk on the floor at CES,

01:13:02 ◼   ► where the sign had said TVs.

01:13:05 ◼   ► But what they were were Android tablets,

01:13:08 ◼   ► like no name Android tablets.

01:13:10 ◼   ► And I know Benedict Evans,

01:13:13 ◼   ► who's just been killing it the last few years

01:13:16 ◼   ► on analysis of that whole part of the industry,

01:13:21 ◼   ► has pointed out that a lot of the $150 tablets

01:13:26 ◼   ► that are sold, which are often sold in Asia to it,

01:13:31 ◼   ► people in Asia, not a big thing in the US yet,

01:13:34 ◼   ► but even when it is, it's really just being used

01:13:38 ◼   ► as a sort of touchscreen TV to watch YouTube

01:13:42 ◼   ► and any other video that you can get on there.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And that is a totally, and therefore,

01:13:50 ◼   ► Not that you can't compare it to iPads,

01:13:52 ◼   ► but that it's a very different,

01:13:55 ◼   ► you're selling the whole thing short

01:13:58 ◼   ► if you just call them all tablets and draw a percentage

01:14:01 ◼   ► and talk about market share

01:14:03 ◼   ► because it's such different use cases,

01:14:05 ◼   ► even though maybe when they're turned off,

01:14:07 ◼   ► they kind of look like similar devices.

01:14:11 ◼   ► And if you think about it, I remember it was growing up,

01:14:15 ◼   ► like when we were kids, portable TVs were always like,

01:14:19 ◼   ► I wanted it.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:14:21 ◼   ► And I remember I had a friend who had like a little three-inch diagonal TV in their kitchen.

01:14:28 ◼   ► And I think it was black and white.

01:14:30 ◼   ► And this really dates us.

01:14:32 ◼   ► I mean, I know that younger listeners of the show are really going to wonder just how old

01:14:35 ◼   ► we are.

01:14:36 ◼   ► But I mean, it got the TV signal with the antenna.

01:14:39 ◼   ► It wasn't even hooked up to cable.

01:14:43 ◼   ► But then they could watch like the local news and stuff in the kitchen.

01:14:47 ◼   ► And Sony eventually had a Watchman, right?

01:14:51 ◼   ► Right, I think so, yeah.

01:14:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:54 ◼   ► But it was like a little handheld television.

01:14:59 ◼   ► I think that probably, you know, like--

01:15:00 ◼   ► Like, it looked like the shape-- more like the shape

01:15:02 ◼   ► of a big iPod with, you know, big old disk drive iPod.

01:15:06 ◼   ► But, you know, we're talking-- you know, this is the '80s.

01:15:09 ◼   ► So we're talking about, like-- and not the wristwatch thing,

01:15:11 ◼   ► but like the one my friend had in the kitchen

01:15:13 ◼   ► was a glass picture tube.

01:15:15 ◼   ► I mean, it was a big device.

01:15:16 ◼   ► you had to put it on a counter.

01:15:17 ◼   ► You know, you couldn't put it on your lap.

01:15:20 ◼   ► And it is, like you said, in terms of field of view,

01:15:23 ◼   ► an iPad on your lap is not too small a screen.

01:15:28 ◼   ► No.

01:15:30 ◼   ► It's bigger.

01:15:31 ◼   ► And when you're on an airplane, it's a bigger field of view.

01:15:33 ◼   ► It's a bigger screen than any back of the seat screen

01:15:37 ◼   ► I've ever seen.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Not easily.

01:15:40 ◼   ► iPad screens way bigger than the TV screens

01:15:42 ◼   ► I've seen on most airplanes.

01:15:44 ◼   ► - I would think the Mini is even bigger.

01:15:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, the Mini is maybe roughly the same,

01:15:49 ◼   ► but possibly bigger.

01:15:50 ◼   ► I think they're usually like six, seven inches.

01:15:52 ◼   ► And always so dim and you know.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're lousy screens.

01:15:57 ◼   ► - They're really lousy screens.

01:15:58 ◼   ► The colors are terrible, everything's all washed out.

01:16:01 ◼   ► Way better.

01:16:02 ◼   ► It's you know, and when you're, you know,

01:16:03 ◼   ► there's a perfect example where you're cramped

01:16:07 ◼   ► and you know, it's good that the iPad

01:16:09 ◼   ► is going to be close to your face.

01:16:11 ◼   ► You're gonna get a pretty decent field of view.

01:16:13 ◼   ► It's not bad.

01:16:14 ◼   ► don't like watching movies on a plane, but I love watching TV shows. Like to me, movies

01:16:19 ◼   ► usually, you know, deserves to be on a bigger, a real bigger screen, but TV shows, it's great.

01:16:26 ◼   ► Yeah. So anyway, yeah. Maybe that's the Apple TV.

01:16:32 ◼   ► I don't know. Could be. I don't know what else they would do. There's one thing with

01:16:36 ◼   ► any rumor of future sized iOS devices that I, every time I read a report about it, I

01:16:43 ◼   ► want to hear the explanation for is what is the pixel resolution going to be? Well, to

01:16:49 ◼   ► make it plausible. If you really know what you're talking about, if your source for this

01:16:53 ◼   ► story knows what they're talking about, they should be able to answer the question of what

01:16:58 ◼   ► is the pixel resolution going to be? Because Apple to date with every single device has

01:17:04 ◼   ► stuck to two effective screen sizes. The, well you know, and then they grew the

01:17:13 ◼   ► iPhone a little bit in a one direction. By changing the aspect ratio though, it's

01:17:20 ◼   ► still effectively the same pixel size, the virtual pixels, not the actual pixels.

01:17:25 ◼   ► When they went retina they just said every virtual pixel is now four pixels,

01:17:28 ◼   ► you know and the iPad is the same. So to me if they make a bigger iPhone for

01:17:34 ◼   ► example and I think Marco is a perfect explanation of this other people have

01:17:38 ◼   ► that they would just do the same thing they did with the iPad except instead of

01:17:42 ◼   ► shrinking it they would grow it and they would make an iPhone with the same

01:17:47 ◼   ► number of pixels as the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5 but that they would just be

01:17:53 ◼   ► 264 pixels per inch instead of 323.

01:17:57 ◼   ► So effectively it would be the same pixel resolution

01:18:01 ◼   ► as the iPad Air and they would just cut

01:18:05 ◼   ► like a 4.6 inch screen out of it.

01:18:07 ◼   ► And then your apps would all just work

01:18:08 ◼   ► and developers wouldn't have to change anything.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Everything would just be a little bit bigger.

01:18:12 ◼   ► You'd be blowing it up.

01:18:13 ◼   ► And that makes total sense.

01:18:15 ◼   ► And it would also cause a conniption

01:18:17 ◼   ► with all of the people who read Gadget

01:18:22 ◼   ► and Gizmodo and The Verge,

01:18:23 ◼   ► because it wouldn't be 1080p, 1980 pixel.

01:18:28 ◼   ► They'd be like, this Android phone has more pixels.

01:18:32 ◼   ► But trust me, if the screen is good enough for the iPad Air,

01:18:37 ◼   ► it's good enough for an iPhone that's bigger.

01:18:40 ◼   ► But when people say that they're going

01:18:42 ◼   ► to make a six-inch iPhone, well, then I don't understand.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Because then it doesn't work.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Then it doesn't work out.

01:18:49 ◼   ► They'd have to come up.

01:18:50 ◼   ► And in theory, of course, it could

01:18:52 ◼   ► be that they'll say to developers, hey, now you have a new you got another one, you have

01:18:55 ◼   ► a new size to support you have to, you know, if you want your app to look right on this,

01:19:00 ◼   ► you've got to code and design for a new size. With a bigger iPad, I don't know how they

01:19:09 ◼   ► would do that, because they've already I think the iPad air is already running at the minimum

01:19:15 ◼   ► number of pixels prints that they could use to call it retina, that if they just just

01:19:21 ◼   ► blew it up by another two or three inches diagonally it wouldn't really it

01:19:24 ◼   ► would start to look a little bit non retina or they could make it bigger but

01:19:29 ◼   ► then say the developers now you have a new size to support but they haven't

01:19:33 ◼   ► done that to date you know when they went retina they didn't say you have a

01:19:37 ◼   ► new size to support they said you you're designing for the same size but now

01:19:40 ◼   ► everything should be you know twice the resolution mm-hmm so I just don't

01:19:45 ◼   ► understand what they would do for a bigger iPad like that

01:19:51 ◼   ► Yeah. And I think it also fits into the...

01:19:56 ◼   ► I don't want to say pipe dream. Because I could see that Apple maybe would do it someday.

01:20:01 ◼   ► But there's a contingent of people who desperately want Apple to complicate the

01:20:06 ◼   ► iOS UI by allowing you to say run two apps

01:20:11 ◼   ► side by side. And what I mean by that, that I'm hesitant to call it a pipe dream.

01:20:16 ◼   ► pipe dream because as the future goes on maybe that's inevitable you know as iOS

01:20:21 ◼   ► grows and needs and I certainly don't deny that at times it would be useful

01:20:25 ◼   ► and if the device actually had a bigger screen you know it might make sense of

01:20:29 ◼   ► but I'm just saying don't hold your breath because that would make it more

01:20:34 ◼   ► complicated there's no yeah I don't see that I don't see that as a priority

01:20:39 ◼   ► right doesn't seem like that's it certainly hasn't helped the surface that

01:20:43 ◼   ► much right and don't get confused starting to think about like what people

01:20:47 ◼   ► like us who have loved and and thrived using you know Macs and windows and

01:20:55 ◼   ► other you know dozens of windows overlapping and apps running at the same

01:21:00 ◼   ► time and command tab switching that that that we don't have any problems with

01:21:04 ◼   ► that level of complexity don't underestimate just how many people have

01:21:07 ◼   ► felt lost for decades using, you know, Windows and Mac computers. And the whole reason they

01:21:14 ◼   ► love their iPads is that tap an app, there it is full screen, tap the home button, go

01:21:20 ◼   ► back, now it's closed. And that's it.

01:21:23 ◼   ► And, I mean, there's also just a certain... Jason Snell wrote a piece about how he likes

01:21:31 ◼   ► writing on his iPad because it allows him to focus. So there's also just like an ability

01:21:38 ◼   ► to really be in one app at a time and actually focus on that app.

01:21:44 ◼   ► Yeah, I totally see that. And I think it's a lot more natural. I think, you know, because

01:21:49 ◼   ► it's what it was designed for. I think the single app view, whatever you call it, full

01:21:53 ◼   ► window view, full screen view on Mac, is weird. It's always weird. In every, almost every

01:21:59 ◼   ► app. The only apps where...

01:22:00 ◼   ► I thought I was going to use it a lot and I don't use it at all.

01:22:04 ◼   ► The only apps where it really works for me are apps like iPhoto or Lightroom or iMovie

01:22:13 ◼   ► or something like that where you're doing something where you would have been using

01:22:17 ◼   ► a window that was truly maximized like in the window sense where it's taking up as much

01:22:24 ◼   ► of the screen as possible anyway.

01:22:27 ◼   ► like for writing or web browsing or something like that and never do it.

01:22:32 ◼   ► Or watching a video obviously, but you know, you used to be able to go full screen before

01:22:36 ◼   ► there was an official full screen, you know, method.

01:22:42 ◼   ► My parents put their iMac into full screen mode a couple of weeks ago and it was the

01:22:47 ◼   ► most confusing phone call I've ever had.

01:22:52 ◼   ► It really was.

01:22:54 ◼   ► the annals of John Gruber helping out his parents with their Mac over the phone, it

01:22:59 ◼   ► was really, really baffling. And I do, I love my mom and dad dearly, but it really got to

01:23:05 ◼   ► the point where I was starting to get angry. Because what happened was, long story short,

01:23:08 ◼   ► is that they had been running an older iMac, and I think, and it was like on 10.58 or something

01:23:15 ◼   ► like that, so it didn't have the App Store. And because it didn't have the App Store,

01:23:18 ◼   ► there was no real easy way to get on the, maybe they were on 10.6, I forget. But they

01:23:24 ◼   ► were on the last version that didn't have the App Store. And then the new versions of

01:23:27 ◼   ► Mac OS X only came out on the App Store. And I know you can put it on a thumb drive and

01:23:32 ◼   ► do that, but it just never... They were happy. They were satisfied. Their computer was working

01:23:37 ◼   ► fine. And then the hard drive died and they needed to get a new Mac. And so I helped them

01:23:42 ◼   ► set up a new iMac. But now all of a sudden they're running Mavericks. And now they didn't

01:23:48 ◼   ► have full screen mode before. And I guess they clicked it by accident. But they didn't

01:23:52 ◼   ► they'd clicked it and all they wanted to know was how to how to how to close mail

01:24:00 ◼   ► and I said just click click that green button click that red button and there

01:24:05 ◼   ► is no more red button like there's gotta be a red button I was like what is above

01:24:10 ◼   ► the thing what's and they're like it doesn't say that and then I was like

01:24:14 ◼   ► well what's above what's below the Apple menu and they're like there is no Apple

01:24:18 ◼   ► I'm like, there's always an apple menu.

01:24:22 ◼   ► And it just didn't occur to me that they would accidentally

01:24:25 ◼   ► go into full screen mode.

01:24:27 ◼   ► I don't know why.

01:24:29 ◼   ► But somehow, the fact that they were telling me

01:24:31 ◼   ► that they didn't have an apple menu made me so angry.

01:24:35 ◼   ► And then I eventually figured out,

01:24:38 ◼   ► if you move your mouse all the way to the top right,

01:24:40 ◼   ► is there a blue set of two arrows?

01:24:43 ◼   ► And they're like, oh, yeah.

01:24:44 ◼   ► I was like, click that.

01:24:46 ◼   ► They were like, oh, thank you.

01:24:48 ◼   ► Thank you, John.

01:24:49 ◼   ► That was the best part.

01:24:50 ◼   ► The best part is they never grew irritated with my inability

01:24:54 ◼   ► to help them or my growing frustration.

01:24:58 ◼   ► But it just, to me, was an interesting thing,

01:25:00 ◼   ► because they also both have iPads now, and they love them,

01:25:03 ◼   ► and never, ever call me with any questions about their iPads.

01:25:08 ◼   ► And their iPad apps are always running in full screen mode.

01:25:11 ◼   ► But the way you get in and out with that simple hardware home

01:25:15 ◼   ► They don't even think about it. Whereas, you know, I think that this I think it was even called

01:25:21 ◼   ► This is part of the quote unquote back to the Mac

01:25:23 ◼   ► You know initiative is now we have iPad iOS style full-screen mode confused the hell out of them

01:25:29 ◼   ► Just didn't fit. I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna start trying it

01:25:35 ◼   ► I'm gonna put them all on full screen right now

01:25:38 ◼   ► Just see if I can live this way. I

01:25:42 ◼   ► Don't think I can

01:25:44 ◼   ► Because it doesn't the problem is it doesn't stick even so like if you switch to one that's not in full screen like

01:25:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I tweet but I don't think has a full screen. No, no, so I switched

01:25:57 ◼   ► Tweet but then it goes then everything goes back to

01:26:01 ◼   ► the window view

01:26:04 ◼   ► Yeah, it doesn't work no, it's I think long story short

01:26:08 ◼   ► sure it's really really hard to add something after the fact when you've

01:26:12 ◼   ► started. Oh except it looked like it didn't work in Safari but it did work in

01:26:18 ◼   ► mail. When you've started with a system design that the basic system design is

01:26:24 ◼   ► that you know apps open windows and windows are these draggable stackable

01:26:30 ◼   ► rectangles and you know which is you know it's a it's a metaphor that has

01:26:35 ◼   ► It's been useful for us for 25 years and growing,

01:26:42 ◼   ► 30 years and growing.

01:26:43 ◼   ► Yeah, the Mac is 30 years old.

01:26:47 ◼   ► But it's complicated.

01:26:48 ◼   ► But then once that's your basic model, having it--

01:26:53 ◼   ► full screen mode just doesn't work with it.

01:26:56 ◼   ► And there's just too many apps that don't do it.

01:26:58 ◼   ► And in the same way, I don't think

01:26:59 ◼   ► iOS could support running some apps in little windows that

01:27:04 ◼   ► stay around on screen all the time.

01:27:06 ◼   ► I really don't think, you know,

01:27:08 ◼   ► you can't add Windows to a full screen OS

01:27:10 ◼   ► and I think the full screen mode on Mac shows

01:27:12 ◼   ► you can't really add it to a windowing OS.

01:27:16 ◼   ► I think the only people who use it are people

01:27:18 ◼   ► who are able to deal with complex,

01:27:21 ◼   ► like somehow it adds to the complexity

01:27:22 ◼   ► rather than reduces it.

01:27:24 ◼   ► - You said they have it on Windows

01:27:27 ◼   ► and for some reason, I mean, I think it worked there

01:27:30 ◼   ► 'cause it had been in there for forever really, I think.

01:27:33 ◼   ► I think it had been in there since three Windows 3 anyway.

01:27:37 ◼   ► And that made sense, even though sometimes windows were smaller.

01:27:41 ◼   ► But they still showed the windows, right?

01:27:43 ◼   ► They just zoomed the window to take up the full screen.

01:27:47 ◼   ► And the same window--

01:27:49 ◼   ► You still got the menu bar and everything.

01:27:51 ◼   ► Yeah, the same buttons for closing the window

01:27:53 ◼   ► or whatever other options are in those things were still there.

01:27:56 ◼   ► They just grew it to fill everything on the screen.

01:27:59 ◼   ► It wasn't really a full screen mode.

01:28:01 ◼   ► it was a button you could click to say,

01:28:04 ◼   ► make this window zoom from every corner

01:28:07 ◼   ► to corner of the display.

01:28:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:28:10 ◼   ► - You know, and one, some sense of people who like that,

01:28:13 ◼   ► and I know like back when a lot of people

01:28:15 ◼   ► were switching to the Mac, it was a, you know,

01:28:17 ◼   ► like a circa 2004, five, six, seven even,

01:28:22 ◼   ► it was a frequent complaint that when you hit the zoom button

01:28:25 ◼   ► - You couldn't have.

01:28:26 ◼   ► - Right, what they wanted was the zoom button on the Mac

01:28:28 ◼   ► to zoom the window to take up the full screen.

01:28:30 ◼   ► up full screen. And it'll resize to full screen, but it doesn't...

01:28:38 ◼   ► there are still edges. Yeah, it's often very questionable what... And sometimes, yeah,

01:28:43 ◼   ► sometimes it'll do something else weird. Right, sometimes it tries to... some apps

01:28:47 ◼   ► make like a best guess as to what's the biggest size you would want this to be.

01:28:51 ◼   ► And it's, you know, often not what you want. Yeah. Anyway, before we go, you've

01:28:57 ◼   ► You've got a new show, you have a new podcast.

01:29:01 ◼   ► I do.

01:29:02 ◼   ► It's you and John Armstrong of Blurbomat fame.

01:29:06 ◼   ► And Lex Friedman of Lex Friedman fame.

01:29:09 ◼   ► What's the name of the show?

01:29:10 ◼   ► It is called Turning This Car Around.

01:29:15 ◼   ► And it is about?

01:29:17 ◼   ► Anybody who's a father will know what I'm talking about.

01:29:20 ◼   ► It's about fatherhood.

01:29:21 ◼   ► We sit around and share.

01:29:24 ◼   ► It's more of a, it's not really, I don't think any of us would portray it as offering our

01:29:30 ◼   ► advice as fathers.

01:29:31 ◼   ► It's more of like a commiseration support group.

01:29:36 ◼   ► Tales of woe.

01:29:37 ◼   ► Tales of woe.

01:29:38 ◼   ► Warnings.

01:29:39 ◼   ► In fatherhood.

01:29:40 ◼   ► Warnings, yes.

01:29:41 ◼   ► Cautious words of...

01:29:46 ◼   ► So how many kids does everybody have?

01:29:48 ◼   ► Now you've got Hank.

01:29:49 ◼   ► I've got Hank.

01:29:51 ◼   ► We've got the one.

01:29:52 ◼   ► Hank is how old now?

01:29:54 ◼   ► just turned 10 like just like you're just like your son he's just like a few

01:29:58 ◼   ► days he's like two weeks older yeah right so he's a little bit older than my

01:30:02 ◼   ► Jonas and I know John's Lita is almost the exact same age too because I

01:30:08 ◼   ► remember you know back when when she was born they documented it on the deuce and

01:30:12 ◼   ► and blurb them at almost exactly the same age okay I didn't actually know I

01:30:18 ◼   ► didn't know exactly how old yeah you don't pay attention I don't listen I

01:30:22 ◼   ► I just talk and then I zone out while they talk.

01:30:25 ◼   ► - Right.

01:30:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:30:27 ◼   ► - And then Lex has three kids.

01:30:29 ◼   ► - And John has Marlo too, right?

01:30:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, so John's got two girls.

01:30:35 ◼   ► Four, five?

01:30:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, so that would be great though.

01:30:42 ◼   ► So I would imagine, I mean, I get the feeling over the time,

01:30:46 ◼   ► I feel like there'll be a lot of good stories.

01:30:48 ◼   ► I get the feeling, Hank, not exactly the easiest,

01:30:50 ◼   ► He's not exactly the easiest kid, but he's just one.

01:30:54 ◼   ► I imagine that you're gonna have a lot of fun

01:30:57 ◼   ► over the course of the show

01:30:58 ◼   ► with all the problems and hassles of--

01:31:00 ◼   ► - Yes, yeah, yeah.

01:31:03 ◼   ► We haven't, yeah, just one's enough for us.

01:31:06 ◼   ► But yeah, sometimes hearing what Lex has to go through.

01:31:11 ◼   ► - Right.

01:31:12 ◼   ► 'Cause kids, here's the thing.

01:31:13 ◼   ► I had a sister growing up, and so it was two on two,

01:31:16 ◼   ► two kids, two parents.

01:31:17 ◼   ► But I remember we plotted against them.

01:31:21 ◼   ► Sure.

01:31:21 ◼   ► I mean, I think it just comes naturally to kids.

01:31:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:25 ◼   ► And then once you get to three, now you've got a majority.

01:31:28 ◼   ► You know, you can overtake them.

01:31:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:31 ◼   ► Although at the same time, they also entertain themselves.

01:31:33 ◼   ► Because like, Hank's got some friends live up the alley from us,

01:31:36 ◼   ► and there's three of them, three of those kids in that family.

01:31:39 ◼   ► And they just let them play.

01:31:43 ◼   ► And when he has a kid over to play often,

01:31:45 ◼   ► It's just it's easier because the two of them will just be entertaining each other's running around having a good time

01:31:49 ◼   ► I've it's a crapshoot in my experience if they can get in a good in a good

01:31:54 ◼   ► Zone yeah, and if they don't know I

01:31:58 ◼   ► Feel like what often happens if two kids get together is that if they can agree on what to play they're all set yes

01:32:05 ◼   ► Yes, that's right, but if that's true if they can't it's horrible. Yeah, all right. What's the name of the show?

01:32:10 ◼   ► Turning this car around all right, and it's on iTunes of course

01:32:15 ◼   ► But it's also at TT - CA

01:32:18 ◼   ► .net

01:32:20 ◼   ► And so it's all because all the good URLs were taken. Yeah, and it's not like some kind of I mean

01:32:26 ◼   ► This is what you'd expect with a bunch of knuckleheads talking about

01:32:29 ◼   ► Yes, right. I mean this is right. This is not like serious fun. Hopefully it's fun

01:32:34 ◼   ► This is not like dr. Joyce brothers like serious serious advice on how to raise your kid

01:32:41 ◼   ► Decidedly not probably I'm guessing the alternate title for the show was this is why daddy drinks

01:32:46 ◼   ► That was one of the considered titles. I believe we had a lot of we had a lot of

01:32:51 ◼   ► Turning this car around is good. I like the roast of the top. I

01:32:55 ◼   ► like it I

01:32:57 ◼   ► like it, you know why I like it because

01:32:59 ◼   ► Here's why I like the title better than this is why daddy drinks is that

01:33:04 ◼   ► Most of the reasons why daddy drinks are also the reason why mommy drinks

01:33:10 ◼   ► Whereas I'm turning this car around that's not a mom thing to say that's a dad thing

01:33:16 ◼   ► My mom never threatened to turn a car around my dad has gotten furiously angry while driving. Yeah, I

01:33:23 ◼   ► Think it is much more fun. I've been I've been there. I've said I've said it a lot jokingly

01:33:30 ◼   ► Definitely and I think I've probably even said it once or twice

01:33:34 ◼   ► in earnest

01:33:36 ◼   ► she just

01:33:39 ◼   ► Sometimes you just have to my favorite. I think the canonical example of that is

01:33:44 ◼   ► Towards that right at the beginning of the third act of

01:33:49 ◼   ► The first vacation movie where they were going to Wally world

01:33:54 ◼   ► and he goes off and has it the family wants to turn around and abandon the trip and he has a

01:33:59 ◼   ► angry profanity laced rant

01:34:02 ◼   ► And the son Russ from the backseat touches him on the shoulder and says hey dad and he just goes don't touch

01:34:09 ◼   ► I feel like that's the canonical example of yeah dad's had enough behind the wheel so

01:34:21 ◼   ► it's TT - CA dotnet yeah not bad nice short domain you could just go to iTunes though and search for

01:34:31 ◼   ► turn this car around and you go this great new show and there's gonna be a regular show this

01:34:35 ◼   ► This isn't like...

01:34:36 ◼   ► Oh yeah, no it's not a... no fly by night here.

01:34:40 ◼   ► We got a bunch of them in the can already.

01:34:42 ◼   ► There's two episodes up now.

01:34:46 ◼   ► Well I am looking forward to it.

01:34:48 ◼   ► I thought the first episode was very well done.

01:34:51 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:34:53 ◼   ► It's fun for us, so God knows it's cathartic.

01:34:57 ◼   ► Alright, well thank you John.

01:35:00 ◼   ► Okay, thank you.