0:00:00Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.
0:00:04I'm Marco Arment. And I'm David Smith. Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes,
0:00:08so let's get started. So we are
0:00:12rapidly approaching WWDC, and it is
0:00:16sort of snuck up on me, if I'm honest, where I felt like it was, "Oh, it's coming in June,
0:00:20it's coming in June," and then all of a sudden it's like, "Wait, it's the end of May."
0:00:24That means the beginning of June is very soon. And it's not coming in the middle of June,
0:00:28it's coming basically two seconds after June begins.
0:00:32When they first announced WWDC, of course I had to add a widget to my home screen
0:00:36that was a countdown to WWDC. And as of right now, as we're recording,
0:00:40it's 11 days, 20 hours away from WWDC.
0:00:44Oh my god, that's so soon.
0:00:48Which is exciting, which is a very exciting part of the year.
0:00:52I think, as a developer, this is
0:00:56the exciting part of the year for me, especially as someone who loves
0:01:00using the new technology, diving in every year.
0:01:04I look forward to it, I block off the whole week. This is, in many ways,
0:01:08my workplace Christmas. This is what I love.
0:01:12And so the fact that we're just less than two weeks away
0:01:16is super exciting to me.
0:01:20This is always the time of the year when I temporarily forget
0:01:24about all the BS sides of being an Apple developer,
0:01:28and I just get really excited about what do we have in store for
0:01:32as you said, workplace Christmas morning. What's going
0:01:36to define the next year of features
0:01:40we have available to us, or
0:01:44even for apps like mine where I have an existing user base
0:01:48that I can't require all the new stuff yet, usually there's at least something I can do
0:01:52for people on the new versions of the OS, and usually I can
0:01:56use it, I can require it usually within a year or two. And so it really gives me
0:02:00a chance. Right now, I would say now
0:02:04I'm at the point where I can require iOS 15, and so now I can use all the cool stuff
0:02:08they announced last year, all the async/await and some of the new UI kit things,
0:02:12and SwiftUI things, and so I'm just very excited to see this stuff because
0:02:16I can usually use it fairly soon. And it
0:02:20kind of tells you where things are going. We might get
0:02:24some little hints telegraphed to us about future hardware direction, or
0:02:28future hardware platforms even, if this is going to be the year for the
0:02:32AR/VR kind of stuff. We might have hints of that dropping, or
0:02:36an actual announcement. Heck, maybe we'll get a new HomePod.
0:02:40There's all sorts of things. It could be big stuff, small stuff.
0:02:44There's so much that could be announced on the
0:02:48potential hardware front, maybe a Mac Pro. That would be, you know,
0:02:52this would be a very likely event to have that be announced at. Or it could also
0:02:56it could be no hardware, and it could be all software, which it sometimes is. And
0:03:00even that is usually exciting because, frankly, for
0:03:04developers, the software side usually is more relevant and usually has a
0:03:08greater impact to our apps and our businesses because usually the software side
0:03:12is where we can find new markets. Because
0:03:16new hardware markets are much less common. So yeah,
0:03:20it's always a fun thing. And
0:03:24they're doing the mostly remote thing this year,
0:03:28which, as I've said in previous episodes, I'm a big fan of the way
0:03:32they've been doing the remote conference the last couple of years. I think it's great, and it's better for almost everyone
0:03:36in almost every way. But now they're also doing this in-person
0:03:40thing for a much smaller group, actually in
0:03:44Cupertino, apparently at the new developer center, which is, that's a new
0:03:48thing. So even if we don't have new
0:03:52exciting hardware, we at least have a new exciting venue.
0:03:56And whatever that, we don't really know much about this developer center yet. We don't know
0:04:00what kind of ongoing capabilities
0:04:04is this thing going to have? What's going to be here? Why
0:04:08are they pushing so hard to have this event in person this year? Those are all
0:04:12open questions, and the answers are probably pretty exciting
0:04:16in some cases. So I'm looking forward to it, really.
0:04:20Yeah, me too. And I think the structure and format, Apple seems
0:04:24to have, like, the first year went amazing in terms of the
0:04:28virtual format. And I think they refined it and kind of perfected it last year.
0:04:32I think I had very few critiques or
0:04:36problems that I had from my experience last year. And I think, I expect, in many ways, this year
0:04:40will be very much the same for the majority of people. And even for people for whom
0:04:44they will be taking part in the in-person part of it,
0:04:48their experience is going to be, in many ways, the same experience
0:04:52from a content perspective as just the world at large. Like, it truly
0:04:56is, in that way, like a worldwide developers conference. Like, it is
0:05:00very much going to be the content, it's
0:05:04probably good, just in case this is your first W3C, to get a sense of what's probably going to
0:05:08happen. It's like, on Monday, they're going to have a keynote where they'll have a, you know,
0:05:12it sounds like there'll be a pre-recorded video that's, you know, released or
0:05:16started to be streamed at, I think it's 10 AM Pacific on the Monday.
0:05:20Then they'll sort of lay the groundwork for what's coming
0:05:24in the next developer year. Then there'll be
0:05:28a break for lunch, and then in the afternoon, there'll be the developer state of the union,
0:05:32which is essentially the same thing, but at a much lower level. So it's
0:05:36talking about, rather than the original keynote, is the
0:05:40thing that anybody can watch, that it's intended to be a public event, whereas the state of the union
0:05:44anyone could watch it technically, in terms of its, I think it's just streamed publicly on
0:05:48developer.apple.com, but it's not intended for them. It's intended for a technical
0:05:52audience to really get a sense of, when we said, "This new feature's coming, these
0:05:56are the libraries, these are the frameworks, this is the technical direction of it."
0:06:00Then I think at the end of the evening is the Apple Design Awards. And then
0:06:04from then out, the week looks fairly similar day to day, sort of
0:06:08Tuesday through Friday, there'll be a collection of videos that gets dropped every
0:06:12morning that will be
0:06:16relevant to the new technology. There'll be a schedule to sign up for
0:06:20labs and design reviews and those kind of touchpoints, and
0:06:24it kind of just goes from there. There's the things where they do digital lounges,
0:06:28I think it was last year they called them, where they had these
0:06:32sort of temporary chat rooms where they would talk about a particular topic and take
0:06:36questions. And I mean, obviously I'm just basing this on the last two years, but
0:06:40I think all the indications from the documentation seems to be that it's a similar kind of
0:06:44a pattern. And I think as someone who really enjoyed that
0:06:48and got a lot out of it in the last few years, I think the few things I'd say is
0:06:52it's a good thing to make, the
0:06:56degree to which you can, make time this week to take advantage of the
0:07:00opportunities as they present themselves. The labs
0:07:04are only, they've had a few labs
0:07:08throughout the year with their new kind of tech talk process,
0:07:12but being able to talk to an Apple engineer about a particular problem, about something
0:07:16that you're running into, if you see something new that you're not quite sure how it works, or if you want
0:07:20to, like, I mean often what I find is super helpful is there's some new thing that you're excited about,
0:07:24quickly prototype something and then book a lab with that team
0:07:28to be like, this is what I'm doing, am I doing it right? Like, you can really take advantage
0:07:32of that because that opportunity just disappears at
0:07:365pm Pacific on Friday, like the door closes on those labs
0:07:40and who knows when they'll be opened again. So I'd say take advantage of that. And
0:07:44I think beyond that too is just use it as a week to learn
0:07:48and to grow and to, the degree to which you are able to, put
0:07:52aside your other developer work, if you're able to not do
0:07:56any kind of other more admin-y stuff or, it's not a week
0:08:00to be working on bug fix updates to your app that aren't pressing and urgent. It's a week to focus
0:08:04on WWDC, on what you can learn, and that's just
0:08:08from my experience, you can get a lot out of it. And for me,
0:08:12having a really productive WWDC sets me up really well for the rest of the year
0:08:16because it lets me hit the ground running in June to be
0:08:20working on these new features, working on these new apps. I think I've, the number of times
0:08:24where I've built an app between WWDC and September 1st,
0:08:28it's in the many dozens and having a productive WWDC
0:08:32where I feel like I really got every bit
0:08:36of an advantage I could from fully engaging into it has
0:08:40really paid off for me. So I would encourage anybody who has the ability and the time to do that,
0:08:44like, it's worthwhile to do. And then you just go through
0:08:48that process and then every day that'll repeat and you just
0:08:52don't feel like you need to watch every video, don't feel like you need to attend every lab, but
0:08:56find the things that are exciting to you and follow that excitement, I think is the best advice
0:09:00that I could give. Yeah, I like that because
0:09:04again, this is a rare opportunity that we have.
0:09:08This is the only week of the year or the only few days of the year
0:09:12when some of these things are available to us, and so take advantage.
0:09:16I've been doing a lot of server work this last couple of weeks, and I'm really
0:09:20trying very hard to have that all done because the last thing I want to be doing
0:09:24in the middle of WWDC is like, "Oh, I have this PHP issue I have to fix on my server."
0:09:28That's the last thing I want to be thinking about at that moment, you know?
0:09:32It is unlikely PHP is going to be a major focus of WWDC this year.
0:09:36While we can't know anything for sure, I think I would not put
0:09:40PHP on my bingo card. It seems pretty unlikely.
0:09:44That seems like a safe bet. Alright, we are brought to you
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0:11:28So I think something that is a traditional thing
0:11:32for podcasters to do in the run-up to WWDC is to put together a
0:11:36wish list, put together a kind of their wish casting of "Ooh, what do we
0:11:40expect? What would we like to see?" You know, you see blog
0:11:44posts like this just sort of spring up everywhere in the next week or so.
0:11:48And I think this is not going to be one of those, but I think
0:11:52I've been thinking a lot about those, and about the
0:11:56in some ways, I've heard from, I wonder from within at Apple
0:12:00like there's a sense of frustration where you have these, it's like the time to ask for something, the time
0:12:04to wish for something was not the week before
0:12:08whatever's going to be announced. The time to ask for it was a year ago when it could have
0:12:12actually been worked on and changed. Because I think the
0:12:16more I've been doing work with Apple, the more I get a sense of they
0:12:20are just an intentional and patient
0:12:24company to a degree that I think very few are. That
0:12:28they are okay with things taking as long as they need
0:12:32rather than feeling like they need to rush anything out or force something.
0:12:36There's very little sense of that sort of outside urgency driving their
0:12:40decision making. It seems much more, it is an internal desire to deliver something
0:12:44that's good and quality and solid as
0:12:48that's the driving focus. And so I imagine
0:12:52the things that are being announced at WBC in
0:12:56two weeks, those things have been worked on for years.
0:13:00And committed to years ago. And it's got to be the strangest
0:13:04thing to be working inside of Apple where they're used to living in the future
0:13:08essentially. Whereas we see this now, but it started as a project
0:13:12or it started as something years and years ago.
0:13:16And I think, A, I really appreciate that as a developer. That I feel like
0:13:20the majority of the things that Apple ships at WBC
0:13:24maybe not beta one, but by the end of that summer are very
0:13:28solid, well thought out realizations from a developer
0:13:32perspective of developer features. That the API is solid, it doesn't typically
0:13:36change usually, it is a reasonable thing to dive into
0:13:40and start to use. And if it's gotten to the point that Apple thinks it's worthy of being shipped
0:13:44and announced at WBC, it's going to stick around. It's so rare
0:13:48that Apple ships something and then a year later it gets
0:13:52completely deprecated and sent away. If they've gotten to the point
0:13:56that they're going to put it out publicly, there's a certain commitment that they're making
0:14:00to us to say, "Hey, this is going to stick around." And that patience
0:14:04I think is just really interesting. And I think something that if you then start
0:14:08to really pay attention, you can start to... It's like making a prediction,
0:14:12not coming from a place of a wish list, which is not really a prediction.
0:14:16It's just like the things I would like. And some of these are just silly, where it's like, I would love
0:14:20for when I connect my phone to Xcode, it doesn't download watch symbols.
0:14:24I don't know why it does this, but it's been doing it for the last few months
0:14:28in Xcode and it drives me crazy. But hopefully that's a bug that's going to be fixed
0:14:32in Xcode 14. Great. That's a wish I can have.
0:14:36But in terms of technology, for me I think about widgets or something.
0:14:40What are the things they could do there? There's any number of things to do there.
0:14:44But rather than just wishing and thinking about it, I could think, are there technologies or things
0:14:48that they've been building over the last year? What did we see last year that would
0:14:52inform what might come next year? And it's like, I would see
0:14:56in last year's announcements, for example, I think of the timeline
0:15:00view stuff in SwiftUI, where Apple has created
0:15:04a sort of constrained mechanism
0:15:08by which you can provide a live timeline of content
0:15:12that updates on a schedule that the system controls. That's interesting.
0:15:16I wonder why you could use that. You could imagine it for dynamic widgets
0:15:20or dynamic complications. There's lots of situations
0:15:24where having a technology like this... Watch faces.
0:15:28Watch faces. Well, let's not push our luck there, Marco. I mean, I could have said
0:15:32watch faces. I'm just going to go with complications now. No, I'm going to say
0:15:36this is the year of Linux on the desktop. I mean, watch faces.
0:15:40Because Mark Urban said there's big changes coming to watchOS, but no one seems to know what those changes are.
0:15:44So hey, maybe it's custom watch faces. I would love it.
0:15:48I mean, that would be...
0:15:52Unfortunately, I'm not sure they're going to be...
0:15:56If you were next to me when that was announced,
0:16:00I think the sound I would make is such that you would likely need to cover your ears.
0:16:04Because I would just explode with joy if custom watch faces were coming
0:16:08to watchOS. But for now, I will predict dynamic
0:16:12complications powered by timeline view.
0:16:16That's the degree to which. And I think that's the kind of feature where it's like, I can see
0:16:20them laying the groundwork potentially for that now in that technology.
0:16:24And it's something I would love to be able to do. It's a wish I have.
0:16:28But I feel like that's the kind of bet where it's betting on them, laying the groundwork,
0:16:32testing that out. It makes a lot of sense for the always on display stuff,
0:16:36sure, but it also would make a ton of sense to have a way to, rather than
0:16:40the current system for complications, having a system that was a bit more dynamic or
0:16:44a bit more lively. And if that was the case,
0:16:48that would be amazing and I would love it. And so, it's a different
0:16:52kind of prediction or a different kind of wish casting.
0:16:56If you think about it, what have they done in the past that informs the choices or the things that
0:17:00are wise to wish for in the future? My realistic
0:17:04guesses on what they might do in an area like that would be more like,
0:17:08yeah, maybe making complications and widgets a little bit more dynamic or
0:17:12giving them a little bit more capabilities. My wish casting version is, give me
0:17:16a custom watch face already. But it's interesting, as I look forward,
0:17:20I guess this could be considered our predictions episode slightly, as I look forward
0:17:24and think about what do I want on
0:17:28all of Apple's platforms? What I want most
0:17:32is major advances in the watch,
0:17:36mainly because that's where we need the most help.
0:17:40The watch, it still holds me back so much. I still want to
0:17:44do so many more things in the watch that require abilities that
0:17:48we just don't have there because it's such a constrained environment. Because, you know, relative
0:17:52to everything else, it's the smallest platform, it's the least
0:17:56power available platform and it's, I think in most
0:18:00ways, the youngest platform of all these things that we're doing. And so, there's
0:18:04the most to be had there. Whereas on the Mac,
0:18:08first of all, I'm not really much of a Mac developer, but on the Mac
0:18:12things barely move. Occasionally they redesign the UI
0:18:16to make things a little bit better, in some ways a little bit worse in other ways, but for the most part, the Mac
0:18:20doesn't really move that much. So I don't really know what to expect or what to hope for there.
0:18:24iOS is its own beast.
0:18:28It's such a massive platform that the opportunity
0:18:32that they can create with iOS changes is huge.
0:18:36However, it's also an older and more mature platform and there aren't very many
0:18:40limits left in iOS that I'm really butting up against in any reasonable way.
0:18:44In a way that they would actually ever change. There's things that people want
0:18:48like side loading and stuff like that, but for the most part, like actual
0:18:52system level capabilities, API capabilities,
0:18:56various software abilities that we have, there's not much that I wish for
0:19:00there. Whatever we get, I'm usually happy to get,
0:19:04but it's not like I'm dying to have anything in particular. And so, on iOS, I think what
0:19:08makes the biggest difference to most developers
0:19:12are things like tooling and low-level framework changes.
0:19:16Where we're not really hoping for, "Oh, I need this, there's
0:19:20this one kind of app I just can't make because I don't have the right hooks in the system or
0:19:24this one resource limit is too low or whatever. I need to
0:19:28have them raise that." No, on iOS, it's mostly like, "Hey, can you make
0:19:32fewer reasons? I need to reboot my entire Mac to fix an Xcode to phone
0:19:36connection problem." Like you were saying, I would love, whatever background
0:19:40demons in Mac OS are required to talk to an iOS device
0:19:44or a watchOS device through an iOS device, I would love to never have
0:19:48to reboot my Mac for any development reason except a software update.
0:19:52I should not have to reboot my Mac to get my phone to properly connect to it.
0:19:56So hey, let's build all those demons into Xcode so that when you quit Xcode, it functions
0:20:00the same as rebooting the Mac in that area. That would be
0:20:04great. And it's tooling things like that. It's like, "Hey, let's make SwiftUI tooling
0:20:08and error messages better, improvements to the Swift language, the
0:20:12compiler, improvements to UIKit and the low-level frameworks
0:20:16and foundation." That kind of thing, that matters
0:20:20more to most iOS developers at this point because we're not waiting on some
0:20:24massive wall to be knocked down in the platform itself. Whereas
0:20:28other things like watchOS, where watchOS is basically a
0:20:32tiny little city of walls and we would love for them to just knock down any
0:20:36of them, it would make a huge difference to us. Like, I still don't have reliable downloads
0:20:40to the watch. Like, background URL downloads, they work sometimes.
0:20:44But I can't make them work reliably and I constantly get
0:20:48requests from people saying, "Hey, why are my downloads failing on the watch?" And I can't tell them a good reason.
0:20:52And that kind of stuff, we've had that kind of stuff solved in iOS for years.
0:20:56And so it's a very different kind of anticipation
0:21:00between these platforms. Not to mention the fact that if we actually have
0:21:04the possibility of a new platform, like if the AR/VR kind of thing,
0:21:08if that is real and happens this year, and especially if
0:21:12it happens at this event or if there's some kind of preview at this event, well then we have a
0:21:16whole new platform that's going to be also probably very constrained at first
0:21:20and we're going to have to figure out, alright, within these little narrow walls that we have here, what can
0:21:24we do? And then that's going to be a whole different area of what can we hope for in the future
0:21:28future walls to be knocked down, etc. So there's all these different dynamics
0:21:32with different platforms, but I'm looking forward to it because in every case
0:21:36usually it helps me in some way. Either I have a new capability
0:21:40I didn't have before, or tooling gets better and that
0:21:44kind of makes everything better. And I think to your point, I think there's something interesting
0:21:48when you think about the variance between platforms, how
0:21:52in the same way that there often be a new technology that's introduced one year that is kind of
0:21:56manifests itself in different, more concrete ways the following year,
0:22:00I feel like very often you can see technologies
0:22:04spreading out from platform to platform, and that what Apple is doing in one
0:22:08platform, it can inform and kind of give you a sense of what potentially
0:22:12might be happening in subsequent years. And so I think of widgets
0:22:16on the iPad in the first year when they appeared there
0:22:20were very similar to the way that widgets are currently
0:22:24in Mac OS, where they were constrained to being in the notification center or in the
0:22:28today view on the iPad. Now the next year, they were freed from
0:22:32that, and on the iPad you could now put widgets anywhere you want on your home screen.
0:22:36And I would not be at all surprised if in the next version of the Mac, we have
0:22:40widgets on your desktop that they've moved, you know, following
0:22:44that same progression that we see there. And I think there's a similarity
0:22:48when I think of, say, a new platform, some AR/VR
0:22:52thing that's widely rumored, or whatever that looked like. I think in some
0:22:56ways the experience of going from iOS to
0:23:00watchOS would inform the way that I would approach that platform, and potentially
0:23:04how Apple would structure that platform. And even in
0:23:08you could imagine things that are almost sort of comically similar, where
0:23:12initially, apps in this platform, there's a good chance they'll be hosted
0:23:16and managed to a large degree on the iPhone, and projected
0:23:20or manifested onto the device in a way.
0:23:24Which is exactly what watchOS 1 apps were like, and there's
0:23:28problems with that, there's things we had to learn.
0:23:32Oh, sure. But I think it's just interesting to look back and see that kind of a
0:23:36pattern of something growing over time is
0:23:40those kind of things become much more consistent. And I think in many ways, the
0:23:44development experience on a platform like that might be similar to a watch, where
0:23:48it's more resource constrained, more power constrained, has a
0:23:52different kind of screen dynamic and interaction model, connectivity
0:23:56model, whatever those things look like. And in some ways, one of the reasons
0:24:00I always try and develop for every one of Apple's platforms is that I feel like
0:24:04it prepares me to be
0:24:08fluent in the direction Apple is going, such that if a new opportunity
0:24:12presents itself, whether it's a new platform or it's a new technology, I can take advantage of it
0:24:16if I choose to. And I feel like the work on the watch that I've done,
0:24:20I enjoy it, I love working on the watch, it's my favorite platform to develop with,
0:24:24but it's also really constrained and difficult, which is probably why I like it so much.
0:24:28But I feel like the work there is a great way to prepare for a future platform
0:24:32that is, any new thing that's pushing the limit technically
0:24:36is going to be necessarily resource constrained, it's going to necessarily have APIs that
0:24:40are less permissive, are going to be less
0:24:44sort of, are going to have more guardrails up to make sure
0:24:48that you're not getting yourself in trouble. And so, it's an interesting
0:24:52thing where the platforms often lead from one to the other, and I feel like iOS is where things
0:24:56begin, and then they just kind of expand out to iPadOS, WatchOS,
0:25:00and MacOS kind of out from there.
0:25:04Yeah, so I'm looking forward to all of this, it's always, as I said,
0:25:08it's always exciting, and I also wonder,
0:25:12going back to the conference a little bit, this might be the way they
0:25:16do all future WWDCs. They might never go
0:25:20back to a large conference center again, like this, what we see in a week,
0:25:24or jeez, it's really soon, what we see in like a week and a half,
0:25:28is... days and nineteen hours. Yeah, right, like, this might be
0:25:32the first of the new WWDCs, that this is just the way they're always
0:25:36done. And so, I'm just, I'm very, very excited
0:25:40to see this, and I really am looking forward to
0:25:44all of this stuff. Again, this is a fun time of year, this is a time of year where
0:25:48I put aside all of the App Store politics
0:25:52side of everything for a couple of weeks so we can really dive into this stuff and really enjoy it.
0:25:56And I'm looking forward to seeing where this can bring my app.
0:26:00Different, again, software improvements usually are the most
0:26:04exciting. Tooling improvements, again, these are areas where
0:26:08these affect our everyday lives for a while, and occasionally there's a
0:26:12cost to bear, you know, sometimes whatever they announce sometimes puts
0:26:16some kind of burden on us, like when they announced the iOS 7, oh, now
0:26:20there's a system-wide redesign that we have to adapt all of our apps to, or when they added dark mode
0:26:24support, well now we all have to do dark mode. There's things like that, there's costs
0:26:28placed on us sometimes that we have to do to keep up with the platforms,
0:26:32to keep up with the market. But usually the benefits that they introduce
0:26:36are usually larger. And some years there are no costs, so it's great. Like some years
0:26:40you kind of get a freebie. So ultimately, this is
0:26:44an exciting time, and I'm really happy to be here. It kind of feels like, you know, the beginning
0:26:48of, in the past, the beginning of the new year for Apple. This is our
0:26:52new developer year, and this is going to define everything we have to do for the next year or so,
0:26:56and usually it's pretty exciting.
0:27:00And I think enthusiasm in the week of WDC, at least in my
0:27:04experience, pays off. It reminds me in a weird way of going
0:27:08to an amusement park, or going to Disneyland, or going to Disney World, or doing something where
0:27:12there's an element of kind of, like,
0:27:16sort of pretending in a certain way that everything's great. Not to ignore
0:27:20or hide from the realities of, you know, like being an iOS developer can be complicated.
0:27:24Being an independent developer can be very complicated.
0:27:28But this week, for these five days, trying to focus
0:27:32just on the good, just on the positive, on what's new, what's exciting,
0:27:36that I have found to be so powerful in terms of motivation,
0:27:40in terms of helping me have a reset in terms of, you know,
0:27:44the nature of being an independent developer is not always, you know, shiny and
0:27:48rosy. Sometimes it's really complicated and complicated, and I
0:27:52look forward to that enthusiasm to say to myself, "It's WDC.
0:27:56Let's do this. Let's get excited. Let's get hyped for it."
0:28:00And for the week, really just believe that. Focus on it.
0:28:04There'll be time for broader introspect,
0:28:08and there's a time to see what, you know, to focus
0:28:12on the things that are potentially more challenging or drawbacks, but
0:28:16this is a week to be excited, to use that excitement to be really productive. Like, I'm
0:28:20the amount of code I can write in WDC versus a normal week is just
0:28:24shocking, because I'm excited, because it's interesting, it's exploratory,
0:28:28and I just, you know, I think for the best, I just really encourage anybody who can
0:28:32to hold onto that excitement, to get excited for it, to let yourself be
0:28:36a kid again. Let yourself just enjoy it,
0:28:40and as a result, you get the reward of setting yourself
0:28:44up for a really positive year, where you can take advantage of the opportunities this week
0:28:48and be set up in an excited, motivated way to dive into whatever the next
0:28:52year looks like, and you never know. You know, some years,
0:28:56there's not a lot for you, some years there's a ton for you. You never know when you're
0:29:00going to sit down and start writing an app the week after WDC that ends up just completely
0:29:04exploding that following September. Like, who knows, it could happen, I can
0:29:08save my experience. It can happen, and that
0:29:12experience starts at WDC. This is the week to kind of
0:29:16that all that begins. They should hire you on the evangelism team.
0:29:20I mean, I guess that's what I'm doing right now.
0:29:24I'll just do it on this side of the street rather than that side of the street.
0:29:28Yeah, I mean, they might be a little bit busier right now anyway, so that's right.
0:29:32Alright, thank you everybody for listening, and we will talk to you at
0:29:36WDC in two weeks. Sounds great.
0:29:40[ Silence ]