0:00:00Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.
0:00:04I'm Marco Arment.
0:00:06And I'm David Smith. Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.
0:00:09So I launched an app.
0:00:12I mentioned this in the last episode, that this was something that was coming in a slightly vague way.
0:00:17Now I can be specific and dive into a great detail about it and the journey behind it.
0:00:22It's called WatchSmith, and it is an app that is all about
0:00:27pushing the limits about what is possible with WatchOS.
0:00:32Both in terms of it has this very wide and varied set of complications
0:00:37that are highly configurable in terms of their appearance,
0:00:42their font colors, the ones that have little dials, you can choose what the hand on the dial looks like.
0:00:47It's getting as sort of nitpicky as I could make it.
0:00:52And then you can schedule them to appear on your watch as you see fit.
0:00:57So you can say, "I want to see the weather in the morning, my activity rings in the evening,
0:01:00and during the day, maybe I want to see the day and date, or my next event,
0:01:06or whatever makes sense for you and your schedule.
0:01:10And then on the watch side was the interesting experience of taking advantage of SwiftUI
0:01:15to be able to build our first time building real native watch apps
0:01:20that I was able to build a whole bunch of different things.
0:01:23And I have the somewhat unique experience or ability,
0:01:28because I've built workout apps, weather apps, health apps, calendar apps,
0:01:32I've built all these different types of applications over the years,
0:01:35I was able to just sort of combine all that into one.
0:01:38So the WatchSmith watch app is really like ten apps in one.
0:01:43All rebuilt from the ground up with SwiftUI, which means that they're able to be so much more
0:01:48responsive, reliable, and just visually interesting,
0:01:52without the weird hackiness that I would have to build in with WatchKit stuff.
0:01:58It was really refreshing to be able to build this in a proper, real way in SwiftUI.
0:02:05And because it's a brand new app, I can just require WatchUI 6 from the beginning, and it's fine.
0:02:11And so it's been really a fun process to build.
0:02:14This is an app that I think I've had in my mind for a long time, and sort of really right around WWDC last year,
0:02:21when SwiftUI came out, it kind of went from this idea in the back of my mind to this concrete,
0:02:27"I want to take advantage of this."
0:02:29I don't know if other people are going to take advantage of this,
0:02:31but this is something that I want to really dive into, lean on, and see how far you can go on WatchOS right now.
0:02:38And so I spent longer than I normally do on an app, and building this out has probably been at least six, seven months
0:02:46that I've been working primarily on WatchSmith.
0:02:50But I think that's kind of what I had to do, because for better or worse, a lot of the stuff that I'm doing is very...
0:02:58It's pushing the limits of what WatchOS, and especially what the complication system,
0:03:03is really intended and designed for, and that is on the plus side, it means that the app is really...
0:03:10It sort of does stuff that a lot of other apps can't or won't do, but on the flip side,
0:03:16it took a lot of work to actually get this to where it was something that was shippable and reliable.
0:03:22And then the other kind of interesting thing with it, just sort of at a high level,
0:03:27is that it's the first time on iOS that I'm sort of using a subscription model.
0:03:32This has an auto-renewing sort of subscription in it, and like I think I mentioned in the last episode,
0:03:38a lot of that is coming from the fact that there are ongoing costs with this,
0:03:41because a lot of the data sources are going to be things like weather data,
0:03:45where there's an ongoing... Every time someone makes a weather request,
0:03:49and especially with complications where I'm having to make weather requests regularly throughout the day,
0:03:55so that I'm up... It's rather than a usual weather app, you have the benefit of
0:04:00you only pull data when the user opens the app, whereas in a complication context,
0:04:04it's more of a pull system, where I'm sort of pulling for new weather data every few hours
0:04:10to make sure that if the forecast is radically changed, that it's relevant and updated.
0:04:15So that kind of makes sense. And then it's also this very niche product,
0:04:18where I think it seems like it kind of makes sense to rather than try to have a big...
0:04:24Have lots of people give you a small amount of money, it makes a lot more sense for it to be...
0:04:28Kind of have that thousand true fans kind of approach, where there's a smaller group of people
0:04:32who really like it and get it and are excited about the app and are willing to
0:04:37kind of be supporters and subscribers to sort of allow me to keep pushing it forward.
0:04:43And so far, so good. It's been a successful launch, no crazy weird bugs,
0:04:47only the few bugs that I kind of expected or the weird kind of edge case stuff that I never would have found.
0:04:53And the subscriber numbers are about what I was hoping for, that it kind of is just steadily growing,
0:05:00and there's enough in the initial wave to kind of make the app viable going forward,
0:05:05which was the thing that I was most excited about, because I just... I love making watch apps,
0:05:09and now I kind of have this playground that I'm kind of being... I can justify spending time working on.
0:05:15Congratulations on the launch. I know how long you've been working on this,
0:05:19and it was such a big project. There is so much functionality in there.
0:05:24Technical achievement, design achievement, math achievement built into this app.
0:05:29So much math.
0:05:31There are so many wonderful little touches, little bits of functionality.
0:05:36I want to start out by congratulating you on an amazing name.
0:05:41I know that for a while you didn't have this name yet, until fairly recently.
0:05:47I couldn't come up with a better name than WatchSmith for this app, and it works on so many levels.
0:05:54The fact that you're building your own watch complications, the fact that your last name is Smith.
0:05:59I just love this so much. It's such a great name.
0:06:02And for what the app is, it is such an incredible app and achievement that you were able to do all this on WatchOS,
0:06:13which is so constrained and just so challenging to develop any kind of functionality for,
0:06:20let alone non-trivial functionality, let alone complication functionality.
0:06:25Because I know only a tiny bit, I've only scratched the surface of what the complication API looks like
0:06:31and what you can do with it. I've done almost nothing with it because it's so limited and so hard to do anything with
0:06:37and so intimidating and so actively hostile towards apps that try to integrate with it.
0:06:42The fact that you've been able to pull off all this functionality is even more impressive,
0:06:48especially knowing what this API is and how it makes you do things and what it allows you to do and what it doesn't.
0:06:56It's an incredible technical achievement.
0:06:59I just love all the little design touches you've put into the faces, or into the complication faces at the front of the complications.
0:07:11My favorite thing is how you have this option that when the watch hands sweep over the complication for, say, the date,
0:07:20you have this option that the date can kind of scoot out of the way as the hand passes over, so the hand is never covering the date.
0:07:28That is exactly the kind of thing that Apple should have provided with their own faces,
0:07:35and exactly the kind of thing that it's such an amazing little design touch,
0:07:40because this is not a physical watch face.
0:07:44Physical watches can have limitations based on the fact that they are physical objects and they can't do stuff like scoot the date over when the hand is passing over.
0:07:53At least they actually kind of maybe could, but it would be extremely complicated and very expensive, so they generally wouldn't do something like that.
0:08:01One of my great frustrations with the Apple Watch has been, and as a watch lover, I love analog watches,
0:08:10and one of my great frustrations with the Apple Watch, first of all, is that I'm just not very happy with most of their face designs,
0:08:17and I can't customize them in ways that matter to me that would improve the nitpicks I have with most of their designs,
0:08:25but also that they're just not smart. We have this smart watch, it's a computer.
0:08:31It's supposed to be able to do things that computers allow us to do.
0:08:35It's supposed to enable dynamic, intelligent functionality, not just displaying a fixed thing in a fixed area on screen all the time.
0:08:46So often Apple has these opportunities that they could do to make it smarter and they just don't take them.
0:08:51The watch faces are incredibly dumb for a computer especially, and for a smart watch, so much of the face system is dumb.
0:09:02By that I mean not smart. It's not dynamic, it's not intelligent, it's not well designed.
0:09:08You have problems like the hand overlaps the date at certain times and you just can't read it very well or at all.
0:09:14There are so many issues like that where Apple had an opportunity to make something smart and just didn't.
0:09:20And in most cases third party developers can't fix it.
0:09:24In most cases we don't have access to the functionality on watchOS that would enable us to make things like better watch faces.
0:09:33Except this one little area, the complication, that even that is extremely limited.
0:09:40Even that there's a lot you can't do. There's a lot of things people would expect that you'd be able to do that you can't,
0:09:45or that maybe you can't do consistently because you might get throttled or something.
0:09:49And in this case you found a way to make Apple watch faces smart, maximizing the capabilities of what you're allowed to do right now on watchOS.
0:09:59And it's really impressive. I'm just so happy that you were able to do this and that it turned out so well.
0:10:06And I really hope the business side of it works out well for you too because it's so nice to finally have a way for the Apple watch to actually be smart.
0:10:17In ways that it should have been from day one but never has been.
0:10:21Thank you. That's very kind of you to say.
0:10:24I think so much of my design for this is coming from this place of what should a smartwatch do that is different from a traditional mechanical watch.
0:10:35As part of my research for this app, I went and bought a mechanical watch, a very basic Seiko 5,
0:10:41and wore it as my primary watch for a good month just to get a feel for what that's like.
0:10:48Because I haven't worn a traditional watch in years because before the Apple watch I didn't wear a watch.
0:10:53I think the last time I consistently wore a watch I was probably in high school.
0:10:57And so I was kind of reminding myself of what that experience is like.
0:11:00And I think there's so many of these things where I got this feeling of,
0:11:04"Yeah, I don't think in the near term we're going to get third-party watch faces."
0:11:08It just doesn't feel like something that is on Apple's roadmap.
0:11:15It's not something that has ever, as far as I can tell, ever been vaguely rumored.
0:11:19Like with most of where Apple is heading, there's this sense of you have these vague rumors that tend to come a year or two out.
0:11:28And then you never know when it's actually going to hit, but there's this sense that someone's working on it and it'll eventually leak out.
0:11:35Either it's the best-kept secret or it's just not coming.
0:11:38And I think it's more likely that it's not coming for the time being.
0:11:41And so I kind of looked at it and it's like, originally I kind of got stuck on the "Man, that's a bummer. I wish I could do more."
0:11:48And then it's like, "Well, what can I do?"
0:11:50And so rather than kind of like the glass half empty version is the "I can't change most of the watch face,"
0:11:57the glass half full version is like, "Well, I can do a whole lot with the part that Apple does let me control with the complications.
0:12:03And I can do my best to make those kind of smart and relevant in ways that are more true to the device that it is."
0:12:13Because it's such this funny thing that so many of the Johnny Ive videos that we hear talks about wanting to design a device that is true to itself.
0:12:24I feel like that's a common refrain that you'll hear.
0:12:28And I feel like the Apple Watch isn't really necessarily true to itself.
0:12:32It's trying too hard to be an homage to great watches of the watch industry.
0:12:39And there's lots of little touches and things that it's doing that are kind of homages to those things.
0:12:43Not that well.
0:12:45I'm not saying it's well, but I feel like there's this root of what they're trying to do.
0:12:49That is, they're trying to make a good watch.
0:12:52And they're defining watch as compared to other watches.
0:12:56But things that come to mind, a mechanical watch doesn't have a sense of relevancy to you and your day.
0:13:06You have to choose the complications that you want to show on it when you buy it.
0:13:12And those are the complications that will only ever be displayed to you on that mechanical watch.
0:13:17And thankfully we can change the complications on an Apple Watch.
0:13:20That's an improvement.
0:13:22But we have to change them in ways that are very static and not dynamic.
0:13:27One of the big things of being able to change the complications dynamically is it completely changes your experience of interacting with that watch.
0:13:35Because suddenly it is changing itself to be relevant to you.
0:13:41Right now I'm doing time-based relevancy, where many people have routine enough schedules that showing you some data in the morning versus the afternoon versus the evening is a useful and relevant thing.
0:13:56I've built and prototyped all kinds of other triggers.
0:13:58You can imagine ones where, when you're in a particular location, it might change.
0:14:04When you walk into the gym, it shows you your activity rings.
0:14:06When you walk into the office, it shows you your calendar.
0:14:09You can imagine those kinds of things.
0:14:11I've built them to some degree, but they're even harder to get consistent.
0:14:14So I haven't shipped those yet.
0:14:16But that kind of relevancy is something that absolutely I think the Apple Watch should do.
0:14:20I think absolutely it should have this kind of intelligence.
0:14:24One of the things, if I think back to the earliest time I had an idea for this app,
0:14:30I was probably a year into owning an Apple Watch and getting frustrated that when you have a timer running,
0:14:37unless you have the timer complication on your watch face, the time left on the timer is not visible anywhere.
0:14:45It seems like that was so silly because why don't you just override one of my watch faces
0:14:51or put it in the middle or shrink it up or put it where the notification circle is, the red dot.
0:14:57Just put the time remaining on the timer up there, something.
0:15:01Make it so that I can easily see the time remaining on my timer.
0:15:04But it didn't. And so that kind of relevancy, I feel like it just changes your interaction with the watch
0:15:11because it feels so much more personal where it's anticipating your needs rather than having to keep.
0:15:18Prior to this, I would sit there with my watch and I would configure a bunch of different watch faces
0:15:22and then I would just swipe through them during the day, which isn't burdensome.
0:15:25It's not like, "Oh, this is this big, this arduous thing I have to do,
0:15:29swiping my finger across a watch on my wrist." But it's even cooler when you're wanting to check,
0:15:35it's the time of day when you typically check the weather and you raise your wrist and there's the weather.
0:15:40And then later on in the day when you're interested in your calendar and you look at it,
0:15:43"Look, there's my calendar." It feels so much cooler.
0:15:46And so, yeah. Anyway, I'm glad it was possible. Maybe to your point,
0:15:54many of these things I hope Apple will do someday, I really think they could do them so much better.
0:15:59The avoiding the watch hands thing is kind of comical because I can only shift the contents inside of the circle that I get.
0:16:08And so there are certain times of day when it will still be covered because if you imagine at 533, maybe,
0:16:20when both of the watch hands are both down and roughly sort of equally spaced within that circle,
0:16:27yeah, there's nothing I can do. I just do my best in that scenario.
0:16:31I just kind of shift it into the biggest open space that there is.
0:16:35But Apple could totally just move it out of the circle for those kind of weird times and then slide it back in.
0:16:42Or they could make the watch hands transparent is another thing.
0:16:45I've had a bunch of people being like, "Why don't they just make it so that the watch hands are slightly transparent
0:16:50when they're overlapping content?" Sure, they could do that too. They could take either approach.
0:16:54But there's so many of these things that I'm limited in what I can do just because I have my tiny little circle that I have to play in.
0:17:04Right, exactly. And I think, oh god, I have so much to say on this topic. I'll try to limit it to it for time reasons.
0:17:12But first of all, I think you're right. They're never going to make third-party watch faces, or at least it's not anywhere near the horizon.
0:17:18But even if they would release third-party watch faces, the way this app is built as a complication app for any of the Apple watch faces,
0:17:26that's still a great market because most people are still going to be using the stock faces.
0:17:30Whatever third-party faces do, if they ever come, doesn't actually stomp on this app.
0:17:35In fact, it would just add the amount of features you could do because you could start making third-party faces as a part of WatchSmith,
0:17:40which would be perfect, right?
0:17:42Yeah, that's one of my huge goals. I was also positioning myself that if the day ever comes, I have all of the infrastructure and customer base ready to go.
0:17:51That I can go crazy with building custom watch faces, and I'm in a good place to start that.
0:17:58I'm not sure that day will ever come, but if it does, I'm right there. All the infrastructure in place, everything's ready to go.
0:18:05Yeah, so that's step one. But I think also, and this overlaps so much with an idea that I had, relevancy, as you said, is one of the great untapped areas of Apple Watch potential smartness.
0:18:19They do some of that with the Siri face, and I was kind of excited when they made the Siri face. I thought, "Well, that's good."
0:18:26They're finally thinking about dynamic relevancy being shown on your watch face.
0:18:31But first of all, it never really worked as well as I wanted it to. I tried it for a while. It never actually guessed correctly the stuff I would want, anywhere near what I expected it to.
0:18:41Even basic stuff like, "Yeah, when I have a timer running, show that." Stuff like the iPhone lock screen does a better job of this.
0:18:47The iPhone lock screen, if you have a timer running, it displays it on the lock screen.
0:18:52It's very clear. If you have an alarm, it's there too. If you're snoozing an alarm, that's there too.
0:18:58The iPhone lock screen is actually way more dynamic and smart about what it's showing you than any Apple Watch face does.
0:19:05Also, the Siri watch face, like everything else about watch faces, it was this one-off thing, and then they never touch it again.
0:19:14That functionality was never brought to any other faces, so they've kind of just dropped it on the floor and walked away.
0:19:20It's like, "You could do so much more." There's so many opportunities for that.
0:19:24For a while, I had this idea for an app that I would, in my head, call "Uncomplicated."
0:19:28It was similar to this approach. It would be a complication that you could basically define a hierarchy, an ordered list of what's important to me.
0:19:38You could order that list however you wanted, and you could say things like, "Okay, well, if it's raining, I want to know the weather status.
0:19:45If it's a clear, sunny day, I don't need to know that. If it's a super high UV index, I want to know that.
0:19:51If it's not, it's not important to me. If I have a timer going, I want that.
0:19:57If I have a stopwatch going, I want that. If I have an alarm coming up, I want that."
0:20:01You could prioritize these things, but there's always an order of what's important right now.
0:20:06If there's a calendar event going on right now, that's important.
0:20:09If there's nothing going on for the next three hours, it's not.
0:20:12There are so many opportunities for that that now, as you said, you have the time-based triggers.
0:20:17That's wonderful. That's step one. As you mentioned, everything location-based, stuff like,
0:20:23"If the sunset is happening within the next hour, I want to know the sunset time.
0:20:28If it's 10 in the morning, I don't need to know the sunset time."
0:20:32There are so many opportunities for dynamic functionality and for smartness in these smartwatches.
0:20:39The whole reason these things are so great over regular watches is that they can do stuff like that.
0:20:45The fact that they still mostly don't because Apple just doesn't seem interested is sad.
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0:22:08There's this funny element where, as an independent developer,
0:22:15I feel like so often the best opportunities are for picking the areas that it doesn't seem like the platform owner that you're working on.
0:22:25For whatever reason, they're taking full advantage of.
0:22:29There's a great opportunity to fill in these gaps and fill in these niches.
0:22:34The nature of doing that is that I've had many people ask, "Oh no, you're going to get Sherlock'd if Apple does this."
0:22:42It's like, "Maybe, I guess."
0:22:44But the reality is, the time between today and when they might implement any of these features, who knows what that is.
0:22:52I've been waiting for Apple to Sherlock sleep++ for four years, three years, something like that.
0:22:58If I didn't make sleep++ because I thought Apple was going to make a sleep tracker,
0:23:04then I would have had three or four years where I wouldn't have had this app out in the world helping people and being part of my business.
0:23:12That's not a very particularly useful way.
0:23:14I think so often these opportunities are there because they're a bit more niche,
0:23:20because they're not the mainstream feature.
0:23:24I don't think WatchSmith is necessarily for every user.
0:23:28I think every user could benefit from it.
0:23:30I think everyone could enjoy some of the aesthetic differences between watch faces,
0:23:37even if they didn't get into the more dynamic or nuanced and complicated stuff that's in there.
0:23:42The basic functionality of, I like showing the date on a lot of my watch faces,
0:23:48but I really don't like that all of Apple's date complications have the day of the week be red.
0:23:54I don't really like red on my watch face.
0:23:57You're missing out.
0:23:59I get it. Some people do. This is fashion. This is the thing. I like blue.
0:24:05I love my watch face to be very blue.
0:24:08Blue's my color.
0:24:10If I was going to a store, and I'm at a watch store,
0:24:13and there's a bunch of different watches with the second hand being different colors,
0:24:18I'm going to choose the blue one probably.
0:24:20Or maybe some days I want orange.
0:24:22But the fact that it always is red, that's the thing that's frustrating.
0:24:26I think that's the part where hopefully it's useful for everyone.
0:24:29But I like being able to provide that kind of customization in ways that just aren't available otherwise.
0:24:37And if one day Apple comes along and does some of the stuff,
0:24:40either it'll expand my market because it makes people interested in dynamic stuff,
0:24:44and say it only comes to some watches,
0:24:47or they do it in one way and I can do it in three others.
0:24:50Sometimes being Sherlock'd is actually a good thing and it expands your market.
0:24:53Or if some day it does happen and the business case for it goes away,
0:24:59it's like, "Okay, the app served its time and had its purpose,
0:25:02and then I'll just move on to something else."
0:25:04And I feel like I'm a better developer having built this app
0:25:10because it's forced me to stretch myself in ways that I don't normally get stretched.
0:25:15The amount of math, for example, that I've had to do and relearn is good for me.
0:25:22I have these periods where my desk is just covered in paper
0:25:25and I'm just sitting there sketching out equations and trying to work this stuff out
0:25:28because I'm not a mathematician.
0:25:30We talked about this a couple of episodes ago.
0:25:32Math can be intimidating, but if you have just about enough to get by,
0:25:38you can do quite a lot.
0:25:40The thing where I'm doing where I'm shifting the contents to avoid the hands
0:25:44is some relatively basic geometry.
0:25:47I can work out the angle that the hand is making on the circle based on just the time.
0:25:52360 divided by 12 for the hour hand or 60 for the minute hand.
0:26:00I can work out where it is.
0:26:02Then I can work out what line it makes to the edge of the thing,
0:26:06and then it's this question of intersecting that with another circle.
0:26:09That math is not easy, but it was the kind of thing that I could learn and I could pick up.
0:26:15Once I have it, the cool thing is now that's a tool in my toolbox that I didn't have before.
0:26:20I guess I'm just encouraging people,
0:26:22if you think of these kind of interesting gaps that you want to fill, go for it.
0:26:27So far it seems like there are people who are interested in that,
0:26:30and the response to this app I think has validated that, at least in my own mind.
0:26:34I launched it fully expecting that it would flop,
0:26:37that it would be one of the many apps that I've launched in flops,
0:26:40because it is so niche and it is so specialized,
0:26:44and you have to wrap your head around it.
0:26:46So far that hasn't been the case.
0:26:48Lots of people seem interested in making their Apple watches feel more like their own.
0:26:53That's fantastic to hear.
0:26:54I'm so glad that it's working out for you, because I was so concerned.
0:26:58Any time you invest a whole lot of time into something before it ever sees the market in the light of day,
0:27:05you run a pretty big risk.
0:27:06Maybe that's just not going to do that well.
0:27:08And until you actually ship it and it's actually for sale and it's actually done,
0:27:12you really have no idea what it's going to be like.
0:27:15You could have spent a year on this and had it be almost nothing
0:27:21and had it be just, "Well, that didn't work. Try again."
0:27:25The more complicated the app is before it can get to 1.0,
0:27:28the larger risk you're taking of that.
0:27:31So the fact that this was a very substantial effort of seven or eight months
0:27:36and the fact that it's doing well now, that's very good news.
0:27:41So congratulations.
0:27:42Thanks.
0:27:43And I will say it was an exercise in discipline to actually ship it.
0:27:47I have at least as many--I think I launched with 50 complication types,
0:27:54and I have at least that many again on my to-do list of types of complications
0:28:00and things that I want to build and features that I prototyped
0:28:04and then didn't quite get ready for shipping.
0:28:06But I think it's an important reminder--at least this is me talking to myself more than anything--
0:28:11that build enough that you can prove the idea of what it is.
0:28:15Show people where it's going, and then hope that adding one more complication
0:28:21was not going to be the thing that made or broke this app.
0:28:25It's like having 51 versus 50 wasn't going to do it.
0:28:28Fifty was enough.
0:28:30So it was important for me to--at some point I just had to draw a line and say,
0:28:33"This is enough. The app is good enough right now. I can ship this.
0:28:37And if there is interest in this, there's going to be interest in the next 50 complications I'm going to make.
0:28:43And if there isn't, then I'm glad I haven't built those extra 50."
0:28:48But now I'm thankfully in the position where I have this little playground that I can keep.
0:28:53I've added, I think, seven in the week since it launched.
0:28:58So I'm at a pretty good clip to catch up with those 50 that I've had.
0:29:03And I'm obviously getting lots of suggestions from other users and people,
0:29:06and that's really fun and validating too.
0:29:08The way that I show tied data is apparently not the way that certain fishermen want to see tied data.
0:29:14And so they have a different kind of visualization for that, and it's like, "Great. I'll do that."
0:29:18I'm happy to make--especially tied data is something that's only available for subscribers.
0:29:22So if you want to visualize it in a particular way, I'll totally do that.
0:29:26And I enjoy this process of just continuing to add and expand.
0:29:30And the great thing about a subscription model is that my goal is to just keep those subscribers subscribing.
0:29:34So if I have the fun of keep building it and they have the fun of keep discovering new features,
0:29:40then we all win.
0:29:42That's awesome. Well, congratulations.
0:29:44Thank you.
0:29:45Thanks for listening, everybody, and we'll talk to you next week.
0:29:47Bye.