278: Fake Jedi Boy

0:00:01the incomparable number 278 December

0:00:16hello everyone welcome back to the

0:00:18incomparable and another in our series

0:00:20of shows celebrating and discussing Star

0:00:22Wars Episode 7 the force awakens a i am

0:00:27your host Anthony Johnson and as you've

0:00:29probably noticed I am NOT Jason's now in

0:00:32fact I'm not even one of the usual

0:00:34panelists because i live in the UK and

0:00:37normally when those guys are recording

0:00:39it's about 3am here so instead where we

0:00:42decided we're going to call this episode

0:00:43how the North feels about Star Wars and

0:00:46we're recording at a more civilized hour

0:00:48for a more civilized show

0:00:51ah Thank You Liz one person held it all

0:00:57right I'm very Star Wars jokes you will

0:01:01fight usually find me funny enough

0:01:03elsewhere on the incomparable network

0:01:05hosting the podcast unjustly maligned

0:01:07where by coincidence we have in fact

0:01:09well although my guests have I haven't

0:01:12defended the Star Wars prequels to a

0:01:15certain extent today buddy I'm i know

0:01:18but my love original trilogy Star Wars

0:01:20runs very very deep and very long right

0:01:22back to seeing a new hope in the cinema

0:01:25when it was originally released and so

0:01:27joining me to talk about let's be honest

0:01:30the true successor to that original

0:01:32trilogy is from Scotland Liz miles you

0:01:35heard her laughing a minute ago

0:01:37hello also from Scotland james thompson

0:01:40i'm silently giving you a thumbs up

0:01:42using a lighter haha I lover and finally

0:01:46across the pond in wintry Massachusetts

0:01:49it's done more'n it's very seasonable in

0:01:51wintry Massachusetts it's a balmy 50 or

0:01:5460 degrees Fahrenheit here so yeah maybe

0:01:56a little less north than usual I have no

0:01:59idea what that feels

0:02:00what's that mean by that is that in real

0:02:02temperatures it's like with like cool

0:02:05and rainy again it's like Scout

0:02:06basically it feels like scoured here is

0:02:09actually on seasonably mild

0:02:10here as well yes really warm well I

0:02:13wouldn't go that far huh yeah but I came

0:02:16out of the star wars at like three in

0:02:18the morning wearing a t-shirt and there

0:02:20was not a WoW not falling to the ground

0:02:24she's joining us this is the weather

0:02:26podcast there was a vertically out here

0:02:28well I'm underwater so I don't know

0:02:32yeah we want we almost re here but we

0:02:35almost are here as well actually I'm

0:02:37here in the lovely wet and windy and

0:02:39Northwest of England and he's very very

0:02:41way without flood warnings of our yes

0:02:44your your your yes you're probably worse

0:02:47off than welcome to the north so uh and

0:02:50welcome to the show everyone

0:02:52damn forgive me i'm going to skip over

0:02:54you for a moment because I thought you

0:02:56were on the sort of the big show

0:02:57discussing this with Jason and serenity

0:02:59and John siracusa so please do you have

0:03:03before we started getting to discussing

0:03:04you know characters and moments

0:03:06do you have any sort of broad opening

0:03:08remarks that you want to make about your

0:03:11relationship to solve and yes yes I do

0:03:16thank goodness for that good i watch

0:03:20star wars in very much the wrong order

0:03:22I was I'm bit too young to have seen

0:03:24over tomorrow I can't remember time when

0:03:26a handsome return of the jedi and I was

0:03:29quite young when I saw the Empire

0:03:30Strikes Back and I remember the first

0:03:32time I saw a new hope and watching and

0:03:35thinking never seen this before this is

0:03:38a big and I was at least 10 or so I'm

0:03:42not entirely sure that's the most

0:03:44sensible order of cinnamon but it kind

0:03:47of its it's like a build-up because my

0:03:49favorite one of the original trilogy is

0:03:50the first one so it's exciting that way

0:03:53and so when they came back I was quite I

0:03:56was reasonably excited and then very

0:03:58quickly unexcited and sad my life star

0:04:01wars spanish first love

0:04:03as to our is in the computer games

0:04:05versus of knights of the old republic

0:04:06and its sequel and the a morgue of which

0:04:10I i do want to think about how many

0:04:13hours I valuable hours I spades have

0:04:17played that God game with its ridiculous

0:04:20rules and things and basically I

0:04:23guy you spend you kill Jedi make money

0:04:26by plant pots decorate your house is

0:04:28what i do on that a lot so I care a lot

0:04:32about Star Wars obviously really oh just

0:04:35ok so uh how did the whole I am your

0:04:39father thing go for you then if you sin

0:04:41if you saw Empire first or did you say

0:04:45so Jedi first such a diverse john wells

0:04:48in july so I just that dogs just been I

0:04:50think that was no 10 right right so it's

0:04:52like I don't remember notnot wow so it

0:04:58was not as if it was very so certain

0:05:00moments of this n stories of this number

0:05:02very exciting looks like I get them i

0:05:05think the right things that you're

0:05:06learning for the first time ever yeah it

0:05:08was it was oh it was very nice to see a

0:05:11new star wars movie at the cinema and

0:05:13for it not to be terrible

0:05:15I like that feeling i think that's a

0:05:17sentiment we were all having right now

0:05:18is near

0:05:19James what about you then well Star Wars

0:05:21was the first film I saw in the cinema

0:05:24as well in 1978 i think it was it was

0:05:27either that or the cap from 80 space

0:05:29both of which are now but it no disney

0:05:33movies now that i think about it but

0:05:36it's pretty much impossible for me to

0:05:37judge whether it's a good film or not

0:05:39because it was the first because I've

0:05:41seen it so many times since and I grew

0:05:43up with all the merchandise and i do

0:05:45mean Star Wars not the cat from outer

0:05:46space but let me tell you how badly I

0:05:51was burned by the Phantom Menace so

0:05:54about three weeks before the Phantom

0:05:56Menace opened i was visiting the bay

0:05:58area from my day job a certain fruit

0:06:01based company while I was over there

0:06:04I had the chance to visit Skywalker

0:06:06Ranch through a friend that worked the

0:06:09sadly departed LucasArts so we drive up

0:06:13to the front gate

0:06:14we get in we get a little sheet of paper

0:06:16with the rules of the ranch on it so no

0:06:18photos unless somebody else's in the

0:06:20photo that sort of thing I got the full

0:06:22tour I saw the library that had Luke's

0:06:25lightsaber and indeed hat and whip in a

0:06:27little display case and everything there

0:06:29was a vineyard and I was sitting in the

0:06:32main building having my lunch and I was

0:06:34told that joke

0:06:35what was literally upstairs editing the

0:06:38final cut of the Phantom Menace I think

0:06:41it's fair to say that I was quite

0:06:42excited at this point and on the way out

0:06:44i was walking back down the driveway and

0:06:47I may have actually been picking up a

0:06:49small pebble from said driveway which I

0:06:51may still have like movies don't tell me

0:06:56you still have trouble from disney your

0:06:59drives past in his car and actually

0:07:01waves at me and you know I've just been

0:07:04telling me to put the pedal to pedal

0:07:06back haha i would I mean I was convinced

0:07:10it was actually an ilm prop George that

0:07:12they have wave everyone who comes to

0:07:14visit anyway the point is I came out of

0:07:19that whole experience convinced that the

0:07:21Phantom Menace would be the single

0:07:22greatest film of all time works out i

0:07:26think i have I had little further to

0:07:29fall the most perfect so I went into

0:07:32this one with immense trepidation and in

0:07:35fact to counter my excitement before we

0:07:37went into we SAT and watched the style

0:07:39was holiday special girl that's

0:07:43unnecessary

0:07:44well I needed to get my expectations

0:07:46then and I think you hurt

0:07:47oh man you're taking a shot at castor

0:07:52oil or something to go with them

0:07:54oh dear but you are feeling that same

0:07:58relief of you know I've seen a new star

0:08:00wars movie and it's not terrible

0:08:02yeah i mean it came out of that thinking

0:08:03yeah that was a Star Wars movie and it

0:08:06right it takes all the boxes that i was

0:08:08looking for and there was this off that

0:08:11for the first 15 minutes it was like you

0:08:13know I just think you don't screw this

0:08:14up transcript

0:08:15yes exactly and eventually just relaxed

0:08:20and enjoyed yeah oh yeah I think that

0:08:23was that yet there was a point and we'll

0:08:25come to that later but there was a point

0:08:26where yeah I sort of stopped thinking

0:08:28please be good and just went with it and

0:08:31then I was just watching a movie

0:08:33yeah I think serenity made a really good

0:08:35point actually on that earlier

0:08:38sho-sa Early Show god what was it like

0:08:40you know less than 48 hours ago his

0:08:42rhetoric but that the it just it feels

0:08:46like a Star Wars movie if in a way that

0:08:49the

0:08:49equals don't which is you know bizarre

0:08:52obviously being that they were made by

0:08:53Lucas but they just didn't feel like

0:08:56Star Wars where is this really does feel

0:08:58like Star Wars yeah i'm i mean i saw the

0:09:02film it was on the Wednesday just past

0:09:05midnight the tank was the first showings

0:09:07in the UK and i've only seen it once

0:09:10because the first decent imac seats i

0:09:12could get after that point on the

0:09:14thirtieth right I'm but so I'm not

0:09:16probably forgotten pretty much

0:09:17everything that happened in the fellow

0:09:19doesn't everyone i should be an

0:09:21excellent game and listen you don't

0:09:24worry i'm about two hours listening to

0:09:26the west coast incomparable podcast on

0:09:29it and I think you are still discussing

0:09:31the opening crawl but perhaps never

0:09:33we're thorough

0:09:35yeah I'm all right yeah damn so I mean

0:09:39we already heard your thoughts in you

0:09:41know in general on that west coast thing

0:09:43but having had another couple of days

0:09:45now to sort of think about it and I

0:09:47think you've seen it again in that time

0:09:49I have not i'm only i would hope i hope

0:09:52to go see it again but it didn't work

0:09:53out that well we're gonna go see it

0:09:55again this week with some family well in

0:09:58my way for the holidays but yeah I like

0:10:00James I saw one that I'm still I I

0:10:03maybes fuzzy on on some things but i'm

0:10:05looking forward to seeing you again

0:10:06which is always an x-15 right earth

0:10:09would be what having had time to reflect

0:10:12and you know given the will be

0:10:15everybody's doing all this podcasting

0:10:17and stuff about it

0:10:19we're all as you joked on Twitter

0:10:21earlier you know every slack channel

0:10:22that your is talking about Star Wars

0:10:24right now and everyone is typing is the

0:10:26status notification at the bottom so

0:10:28it's been on your mind obviously so

0:10:31haven't had time to reflect you know are

0:10:34you coming around to anything or

0:10:36changing your mind on anything or I i

0:10:39think you know I think the important to

0:10:41come away from this it's it's really

0:10:43hard to put into context because those

0:10:45earlier films at least you know it

0:10:47sounds like for all of us the original

0:10:48trilogy was such a big part of our lives

0:10:51and you know we were exposed to it at an

0:10:53age where we weren't necessarily fully

0:10:56developed an arc all of our critical

0:10:58faculties unless it's always sort of

0:11:00occupied a place in our hearts of

0:11:02emotion not to say that it's not they're

0:11:04not technically wonderful films but you

0:11:07know we in the same way that i find that

0:11:10we you know we were blind to many of the

0:11:11faults of things that were exposed to is

0:11:13as very young kids you know we don't we

0:11:16sweet gloss over certain things that

0:11:18maybe less perfect or other because of

0:11:21you know when we saw him what it meant

0:11:23to us and and none of that is wrong i

0:11:25think it's harder to come into a movie

0:11:27like this when you as we are now much

0:11:30older than we saw the original trilogy

0:11:32and not be a little bit critical of it

0:11:34and I definitely have criticisms of it I

0:11:37i think it's very hard for it in general

0:11:39to occupy even the same sort of level

0:11:42for me i watch two days later I I after

0:11:46i saw force awakens i watch to return

0:11:48the Jedi to show my cousin's kids

0:11:50because I've watched the new hope and

0:11:52empire strikes back with them and we're

0:11:54you know it's like time for them see

0:11:55which are the Jedi and it was

0:11:57interesting watching that in such close

0:11:58proximity to the force awakens because

0:12:01you know your sort of jumping from of

0:12:02seeing Han Solo as a you know as a

0:12:05grizzled old gray-haired guy to you know

0:12:08sort of back into his prime and and sort

0:12:10of trying to make that connection of ok

0:12:11this is it's the same universe

0:12:13II i think it probably has a certain

0:12:15amount of disconnect in it as well

0:12:17because I i did like the film and and

0:12:20like i said i'm looking forward to

0:12:21seeing it a second time but in some ways

0:12:24that also solidified for me that I can

0:12:26divorce this to a certain extent from

0:12:28the original trilogy and say like okay

0:12:31you know this is this is going back and

0:12:33revisiting some of the same characters

0:12:35but if I really wanted to you know just

0:12:37sort of view the original trilogy as its

0:12:38own self-contained thing I feel

0:12:40comfortable doing that not an end in the

0:12:43same way I imagine some people might

0:12:45feel similarly about something like you

0:12:47know doctor who which we obviously had a

0:12:49huge hiatus between incarnations as well

0:12:51so that there are people you know who

0:12:54who might like you know the classic

0:12:56Doctor Who versus the more modern doctor

0:12:57who and there's connections it's

0:12:59undeniable that they take place you know

0:13:00there's sort of a continuity run running

0:13:02through all of it but you know you can

0:13:04also still feel comfortable picking and

0:13:05choosing the parts of it that you want

0:13:07to think about and so for me I really

0:13:09it's it's fascinating because it it's

0:13:13not that it feels like fanfiction it's

0:13:15obviously better

0:13:16does feel like Star Wars you know and

0:13:17the fact that it was made by someone who

0:13:19is legitimately a fan for the first time

0:13:21you know really colors it with a

0:13:24different a different brush there and I

0:13:28think what I've you know come to feel

0:13:29about it is like these may not be my

0:13:32star wars movies but I'm still really

0:13:35happy that their star wars movies and

0:13:37that this is a Star Wars movie because i

0:13:39do agree that it feels like a Star Wars

0:13:40movie in the way that the prequels never

0:13:43did and even if it doesn't quite reach

0:13:44the heights of some of that original for

0:13:46me just because of the context of when i

0:13:48saw it and how much it affected my life

0:13:50I don't think that necessarily lessens

0:13:52the impact of it as a film for me well

0:13:55and just talking about the originals

0:13:56treating the originals as a

0:13:58self-contained unit I've been doing that

0:14:00for the last what 15 20 we all have guns

0:14:05right exactly because well the thing was

0:14:08that I saw phantom menace in the cinema

0:14:10and like everybody else I was terribly

0:14:11disappointed but I was so disappointed

0:14:13that I didn't even watch the other

0:14:14movies until I'd until I did the show

0:14:17the podcast about them earlier this year

0:14:19on understand i had not even seen clones

0:14:23or going to the same what do you think

0:14:26of them i refused to watch the thought

0:14:28they were terrible

0:14:29yeah aren't we all example yeah but I

0:14:32that was how badly i hated Phantom

0:14:34Menace I was just like well I'm not

0:14:36watching these other movies there's no

0:14:37way they can redeem this film and always

0:14:39right but yeah I mean I went from

0:14:41watching you know I haven't seen phantom

0:14:43menace five times in the theaters

0:14:44because it took awhile for its hey hey

0:14:48Atlanta again once again on that knife's

0:14:50edge of being a kid and being an adult

0:14:52and thinking why are I was I was reeled

0:14:55in you and I yeah what are these came i

0:14:57am I wrong am I wrong somehow for not

0:15:00liking movies is this a fault of mine

0:15:02there was a there was definitely a

0:15:04feeling watching it thinking this isn't

0:15:07good

0:15:08something's not right you had an exam

0:15:10just that well you know the music's

0:15:12right everything looks right kinda no no

0:15:15we did not look right now okay think but

0:15:18on the flipside like going into this

0:15:20movie and trying to I think it is like

0:15:22you guys were saying like the don't

0:15:24screw this up don't screw this up

0:15:25mentality and then being able to sort of

0:15:27like you know take a deep breath and say

0:15:29I'm just

0:15:30I'm just gonna watch the movie like

0:15:31that's a challenge right because there

0:15:33is so much of this period where it's

0:15:34like you're feeling like resistant like

0:15:36am I gonna get burned again is this all

0:15:38a mistake and then it takes some time

0:15:40and that's why i'm looking forward to

0:15:41watching it again because having only

0:15:43seen it once i still have to contend

0:15:45with that whole feeling of its should i

0:15:48commit should i let my sister I opened

0:15:49myself up to be hurt again

0:15:51trust me totally holds up yeah i'm

0:15:53looking forward to it and I I didn't buy

0:15:55a single piece of merchandise before I

0:15:57saw the film because a lot of people

0:16:00lots of much James owns a full-size

0:16:04battle directly but i found a inbox my

0:16:08collection of you know like anakin

0:16:10skywalker figures and y2 and whoever

0:16:14else that I had no idea who these people

0:16:17were and recently when there was the the

0:16:20force friday thing where all the

0:16:22merchandise was released for this film I

0:16:24took a picture of all of them and

0:16:26tweeted it and said I'm so looking

0:16:28forward to seeing this new film just to

0:16:31remind everyone your IE are either have

0:16:35no memory of mine i have a couple of

0:16:38memories here and there but no overall

0:16:40sort of memory of my life before Star

0:16:43Wars I i literally I was five years old

0:16:46when the first time say when a new hope

0:16:47was released I sword in the cinema it

0:16:49was one of the first not the first one

0:16:51of the first films have a sword in the

0:16:52cinema and I literally do not remember

0:16:54my life before that point I in a toys

0:16:59Spenny sticker albums remember those

0:17:01brits that the first album I ever owned

0:17:05that my mother bought for me when I was

0:17:07I think seven years old was the London

0:17:10Philharmonic Orchestra recording the

0:17:12star wars the music and like very you

0:17:14know Luke's thin layers then what have

0:17:16you and literally it wasn't a whole

0:17:18soundtrack and he took up one side of

0:17:21the album and the other side was I think

0:17:22it was host the planets it was really

0:17:25strange but they had a x-wing on the

0:17:27front so that was good enough for me and

0:17:29happen when I was when I was a small

0:17:31child and I was t think I i chewed on

0:17:34the foot of a wookie

0:17:36that's my Star Wars yeah i still have

0:17:40the first game that i bought myself well

0:17:42darkness will talk about it was rebel

0:17:44salt for the pci well there's century I

0:17:48still got it in the covered my favorite

0:17:50games even though i can't play anymore

0:17:51computer doesn't take the desks classic

0:17:55game maybe the closest comparison that i

0:17:58can think of for for younger listeners

0:18:04is like Harry Potter like think of how

0:18:07the reason now there's a whole

0:18:08generation who just know Harry Potter

0:18:11because it's everywhere they've also in

0:18:13all the movies they've read all the

0:18:15books then all the characters than all

0:18:16the actors and they assume that

0:18:17everybody their age also knows

0:18:20harrypotter harrypotter is their thing

0:18:22if you are that age you know Harry

0:18:24Potter in the same way and that's what

0:18:26it's like for people our age we just

0:18:28know Star Wars it's just there and as

0:18:32you say it becomes his dominance thing

0:18:34becomes so huge and there's such an

0:18:36emotional connection to because it's

0:18:38part of childhood that it's really

0:18:40difficult to actually be objective and

0:18:42sort of critical and I mean that in the

0:18:44you know traditional in the sense of the

0:18:47movies because you have such a

0:18:49deep-seated attachment to them and you

0:18:52know you wouldn't have that attachment

0:18:53if they weren't great movies

0:18:54let's not forget that he's aligned of

0:18:56you know all intellectual stuff aside if

0:19:00they weren't actually just really good

0:19:01entertainment then we wouldn't have that

0:19:03emotional connection to them but yeah

0:19:06that's kind of I think that's the best

0:19:07comparison that I've been able to come

0:19:09up with to make people realize water

0:19:11original Star Wars was like and for this

0:19:14I of i did the whole the full circu sir

0:19:16I avoid spoilers i only watch the

0:19:18official trailers I didn't read any

0:19:21transmedia stuff i didn't watch any

0:19:23transmedia stuff I I didn't even know

0:19:26the names of the characters going

0:19:29glasses and while i didn't know i was

0:19:31unable to escape that

0:19:33yeah yeah I I knew nothing and I i loved

0:19:38it i absolutely loved it and I think

0:19:40that going in spoiler-free actually

0:19:42really helped in that sense because i

0:19:44had no expectations i literally had no

0:19:48no sort of preconceived notions of

0:19:50anything about this movie and I'm just

0:19:53gonna spoiler-free as well why didn't

0:19:55the names of the main characters edit

0:19:57about big talk to switch the the terror

0:20:00and fear of the disappointment thing and

0:20:03I didn't get to see it till saturday so

0:20:05by then loads of people have been going

0:20:07to can't see it so I can manage to get a

0:20:09few like I just give me a one-word

0:20:11non-spoilery opinion of it just say easy

0:20:13good physically and everyone said well

0:20:18it was all positive so it's like okay

0:20:20it's not going to be terrible

0:20:21I can relax and as soon as in fact as

0:20:23soon as the scroll came up and i read

0:20:25the first three sentences i was like I

0:20:28can breathe and it's gonna be fine

0:20:30nothing about trade disputes nothing

0:20:32about it was really just I think we had

0:20:34an advantage in the UK because we saw

0:20:36like more than 24 hours before the

0:20:38Americans where we do you really hate

0:20:41you for this

0:20:42I didn't actually I saw on friday so

0:20:44well i think that i saw in the midnight

0:20:46showing so like there was no real chance

0:20:49of being spoiled unless any Australians

0:20:51that popped up and i mean it was it was

0:20:55good because i was going into it without

0:20:57knowing whether it was good or not

0:20:59because if if everybody had told me very

0:21:02that this was a really good film then I

0:21:05would have had more problems I think I i

0:21:08tried to avoid even that because i was

0:21:10super worried i just switched I closed

0:21:12down Twitter I didn't go on / i mean III

0:21:15barely all I did was read my email

0:21:17basically and read more replies on

0:21:19Twitter from Monday through Friday as

0:21:23most of what i did and yet still I got

0:21:25white people replies where I post things

0:21:27may be like oh don't worry i think

0:21:29you'll enjoy them i don't even think

0:21:32you'll enjoy the bet where is why I only

0:21:35wanted a one-word review of it because

0:21:38that meant you could keep it didn't

0:21:40oversell with one word right

0:21:43yea though well apartment unless unless

0:21:44everybody said fantastic you know

0:21:46amazing spectacular

0:21:48yeah yeah but i think its era well no

0:21:51one did that it was it was so I feel ok

0:21:53so there were rocks sense for people i

0:21:56got before we go any further actually

0:21:57let

0:21:58just let's for people who are listening

0:22:00who if you're listening to this new

0:22:02happens in the movie yet I question your

0:22:05life choices button sound the spoiler

0:22:08horn

0:22:13and now we will be because I wanted to

0:22:16be careful that we don't get into

0:22:18spoiler territory without warning people

0:22:20at least so yes now let's carry on so I

0:22:23went in and it was the first showing and

0:22:25while I may own a full set of Jedi robes

0:22:28and possibly an order one lightsaber i

0:22:30decided not to let them and just go with

0:22:33a sort of understated New Hope is

0:22:36t-shirt and I tend to be quite wise

0:22:38because aside from one princess layer

0:22:40and I think this is all be princess

0:22:42layer and nobody's an actual zombie

0:22:45James sorry yeah nobody else at the

0:22:48cinema was dressed up at all and I don't

0:22:50know if that was because people have

0:22:51been burned in the past by this dressing

0:22:53up and then finding out the films were

0:22:55terrible

0:22:56oh and they didn't want to commit until

0:22:58they knew that the film was good or if

0:23:00it was just that this was a Glasgow and

0:23:02wandering around in your dressing that

0:23:04was money first ought to be on his

0:23:05Believe generally friend apart we we had

0:23:10we had some people in dress up at my

0:23:12local theater here which is in service

0:23:13or suburban Boston area there was a

0:23:15there was a quite good

0:23:17Cloud City hon and layout as a couple

0:23:20which was excellent

0:23:21haha yeah i think was in there I feel

0:23:24like there might have been a BBA to like

0:23:26it was it was pretty good wasn't like

0:23:27that unlike having been to Star Wars

0:23:28Celebration earlier this year play

0:23:30hiding around zero without taking up

0:23:32three seats in this and you know I'm

0:23:34people come up with their very clever

0:23:36things I think it's like a hacked it was

0:23:38like a little BB a have just the head

0:23:40it was pretty good though I remember

0:23:42doing that but yeah having seen the the

0:23:44costumes tried it out at the star wars

0:23:46celebration this year and this was like

0:23:48it was good like more than you see for

0:23:50most movie openings for sure but not

0:23:52quite that level even in fact one of the

0:23:53people that we went with actually my

0:23:55friend had a great ray costume and so

0:23:58clearly had been studying all the all

0:24:00the trailers and and posters and

0:24:02everything beforehand to make that which

0:24:03was pretty cool i was delighted to note

0:24:06the the i went to a 730 p.m. showing on

0:24:10the friday which is kind of like

0:24:13primetime cinema time obviously but I

0:24:16was delighted to see that the world a

0:24:18lot of kids in the audience a lot of I

0:24:19mean obviously a lot of people my age

0:24:21taking their kids along you know sort of

0:24:24nostalgic purposes and all that

0:24:26yeah just a lot of kids and the kids all

0:24:28really enjoyed it you know you could

0:24:30hear them all gasping and whooping and

0:24:33stuff while the film was on and then

0:24:34coming out afterwards they all clearly

0:24:36had really enjoyed it and I'm talking

0:24:38kids you know between the ages of six

0:24:40seven and maybe you know 11 or 12 a good

0:24:43fairly good range so that I thought was

0:24:45really really positive and I just want

0:24:48to quickly conclude my point by saying

0:24:50the that the mine concern like most of

0:24:54us was you know even if it's

0:24:57entertaining

0:24:58will it have an impact on me will I be

0:25:00thinking about it afterwards because

0:25:02like say the track reboots JJ Abrams

0:25:05strike movies are entertaining movies I

0:25:08think they're great movies but I i

0:25:09walked out the Sun mr and they just left

0:25:12my head you know I wasn't thinking about

0:25:15them for days afterwards where is this

0:25:17yeah I have been thinking about this

0:25:20movie ever since i saw it so I think

0:25:22it's safe to say that for me at least it

0:25:25has had yes not as much impact as the

0:25:28original trilogy but still much more

0:25:31impact certainly than the prequels and

0:25:34the many many other movies I've seen

0:25:35recently is not only and part of that I

0:25:38feel like is this the the place of this

0:25:40as we discuss a little bit on the main

0:25:41show the place of this as the the watch

0:25:45pad right you know because unlike so

0:25:47many other movies where it's like well

0:25:49this movie is going to come out we're

0:25:50gonna see if it does well or not and if

0:25:52it does well there will be a sequel and

0:25:54sometimes usually on threads in that

0:25:56first movie where you're like oh you

0:25:58know this might come up later and so

0:25:59having this situation specifically where

0:26:01this foregone conclusion we already knew

0:26:03that the sequel's were coming allows you

0:26:06to do things that leave the you know

0:26:09questions to be answered much more

0:26:11blatantly like this is the first chapter

0:26:13of a story in the way that a lot of

0:26:15movies and not say it's not

0:26:16self-contained doesn't tell a story

0:26:17within itself but the idea that like

0:26:20this is only the tip of the iceberg it

0:26:22deliberately leaves a lot of threats

0:26:24dangling yeah exactly and provides you

0:26:26with so much opportunity to speculate

0:26:27about what is going to happen next

0:26:29because we already know there is a next

0:26:30you know it's not just like a well if

0:26:32they decide to do with another one it

0:26:33might be about this and as you know this

0:26:35there is going to be another one we know

0:26:37this leads directly into it and

0:26:38therefore we get all this chance to

0:26:39speculative

0:26:40like what's gonna happen with this in

0:26:42this who is this person what does this

0:26:44mean you know and so i think that's

0:26:45that's a particularly rich vein for

0:26:47speculation

0:26:48absolutely it does what worried me a bit

0:26:50though because that the whole like we're

0:26:52gonna get a new star wars film every

0:26:54year until we die until you die know

0:26:58what it's like to live forever but you

0:27:03know it's it's like you know the world

0:27:05three films as we all know and now we're

0:27:08getting all these new film will they be

0:27:10devalued yeah I mean it's like the first

0:27:12one obviously is gonna have a massive

0:27:14impact but is that you know you're gonna

0:27:16have diminishing returns and you know

0:27:18with all the spin-off films are we going

0:27:19to be because I mean I i really love to

0:27:22the first Avengers movie and by the time

0:27:24we go into the second avengers movie was

0:27:26like well this is kind of good but it's

0:27:28been more of the same and you know and I

0:27:31was just that sort of disappointment and

0:27:33slightly jadedness with the the Marvel

0:27:36superhero stuff with was beginning to

0:27:39kick in i think as long as the the

0:27:43alternate movies if you like the sort of

0:27:45you know the what are they calling there

0:27:47is a name that they're giving them

0:27:49oh you know over the anthology films at

0:27:52the end always that's it right i was

0:27:54tails or some rest on Rogue Squadron all

0:27:57that sort of stuff as long as that I

0:27:58think as long as those are disconnected

0:28:00enough from the main narrative of the

0:28:03main movies that you know hopefully will

0:28:07avoid that fatigue because I know what

0:28:11you mean yeah it has started to set in

0:28:13to an extent with the Marvel movies but

0:28:14on the other hand we've had a fast and

0:28:17furious movie every year for the past

0:28:19three years and they've all been

0:28:20brilliant

0:28:21so that's well above 3 no 2 no no I'm

0:28:26saying for the past three years ever

0:28:27since Fast Five basically um so you know

0:28:30it can be done and with different

0:28:32directors as well that helps hopefully

0:28:34keep things fresh

0:28:35so I'm just looking at the poster here

0:28:37on the wikipedia pages of remembered

0:28:40when i saw the poster I at first thought

0:28:44that the woman was holding some kind of

0:28:49Darth Maul like lightsaber staff and

0:28:53then I look closer

0:28:54realize that that's the guy in the masks

0:28:56lightsaber and she's just kind of normal

0:28:58stuff and I actually thought oh they do

0:29:01that's a bit of a cop-out they want you

0:29:03to think that she's a Jedi but actually

0:29:05she's not it's just an optical illusion

0:29:07hey you went too far you went too far

0:29:09past the exact opposite with that I

0:29:13thought oh you want you to enter she's

0:29:15gonna get double pleats like silver at

0:29:16some point despite the fact that all the

0:29:19problem of stuff was suggesting but it's

0:29:20all going to be what's it been he was

0:29:23the Jedi right well including the main

0:29:26poster he's holding the blue lightsaber

0:29:28in the post yeah right and I oh I looked

0:29:31at that poster and then there were

0:29:32people saying well as terrible as a

0:29:34really big spoiler on that and only that

0:29:36was and i will look back and I hadn't

0:29:39seen the sort of Death Star like a ball

0:29:41that was in the background of the show

0:29:43guys just sit

0:29:45I don't know but I was like kind of when

0:29:47it's done all the people in the front

0:29:48that didn't see this giant thing but

0:29:50then i but then is not really a spoiler

0:29:52though the evil empire spines of super

0:29:55weapon would never have guessed a

0:29:57bowl-shaped super weapon but i did

0:29:59decide

0:30:00basically I looked at it again I thought

0:30:01no that's actually it's PBS dad haha

0:30:05bb7 I you know it's funny when i was at

0:30:08the star wars celebration in April they

0:30:10had a bunch of the costumes from the

0:30:12force awakens and we were sort of hours

0:30:14they were the couple my friends were

0:30:15debating like do we go in yes miss

0:30:17boiler and and me and one of my friends

0:30:19ended up going in and the one thing that

0:30:23was we we thought was basically oh this

0:30:25is this is kind of a spoiler that we got

0:30:27away from that was they had john-boy I

0:30:29guess costume and headlights it had a

0:30:31concept drawing attachment in which

0:30:33there was a lightsaber on his belt and

0:30:35we're like our giveaway that he had a

0:30:38light saver which of course is also kind

0:30:40of a fake-out so in that way it was

0:30:42funny because it's set like you guys

0:30:43with the posters set me up thinking in

0:30:45one direction and of course that's not

0:30:47entirely true i was just overthinking

0:30:50get it turns out there was a spoiler

0:30:52ship that I did see which was annoying

0:30:54which was housing for was asked what his

0:30:59favorite scene of the film was and he

0:31:01said something like always raise

0:31:03lightsaber battle at the end

0:31:05I don't know I'm that was like at least

0:31:10everything you didn't say getting

0:31:11stabbed can't get that baby died i'm

0:31:17doing good choice

0:31:18Harrison forget your good choice just

0:31:20keep it is out can we just take a moment

0:31:22actually to give props to you mention

0:31:25BBA and to praise the animators of bb-8

0:31:30because you know he's a character like

0:31:32r2d2 who you know save nothing just

0:31:35bleep boobs nothing intelligible to

0:31:37human ears and yet like r2 and i would

0:31:40say actually even more than r2 they give

0:31:43him such an amazing personality he is an

0:31:47instantly likable lovable character with

0:31:52yet nothing but you know two balls and

0:31:55some bleeps and bloops he had physically

0:31:57robotic hamster below her emotions well

0:32:00he does sometimes that's so cute

0:32:02yes well in the rocking back and forth

0:32:04and you know tilting his head to sort of

0:32:06be sad and things like that and yes the

0:32:08the thumbs up with the lighter was you

0:32:10know that everybody loves my firm if I'm

0:32:13correct I think he was it was a purely a

0:32:16physical prop so yes Papa tiered

0:32:19basically well i don't think i don't

0:32:20know about purely i'm sure there were

0:32:21some parts where they CGI'd in but yes

0:32:24and this is that the close-up stuff

0:32:25where it was with the actors yes that

0:32:27was a physical problem which is kind of

0:32:30amazing

0:32:31yeah I mean that was the thing just as a

0:32:33slight tangent that the the things that

0:32:35bothered me the most in the film were

0:32:37the the cgi characters because

0:32:41everything was so real and you know

0:32:44let's build all the x-wings let's do all

0:32:46this and then the smoke and the mass

0:32:50kanata Angeles and the trader and the

0:32:53rest are they were the four-seat big cgi

0:32:56Grange's and they kind of go is tricked

0:32:59into thinking they were real because

0:33:00everything else looks so real so I just

0:33:02assumed that pie that of course it will

0:33:05be CGI don't be ridiculous to me that

0:33:09the smoke one I think just was that was

0:33:11the the thing that took me at the moon

0:33:13fee and and it's going yeah well it's

0:33:17golem and I like the fact that he liked

0:33:19clearly have something Polian complex

0:33:21and is about the size of yoda because he

0:33:23possessed himself as that everybody's

0:33:25assuming that all yeah but I do feel

0:33:29like it is kind of a that it feels more

0:33:31deliberate to me i agree that i found it

0:33:33a little more off-putting even then you

0:33:35know the temperature of the Emperor's

0:33:36giant head and empire strikes back but i

0:33:39have to wonder if thats a deliberate

0:33:41obfuscation it certainly seems like it

0:33:43but I and I really liked mass as a

0:33:45character i do agree with the people who

0:33:48are asking like could could win because

0:33:50that's the fabulous lupita nyong'o and

0:33:52you couldn't we have just had her you

0:33:53know as a as a live actor and I feel

0:33:56like it probably would have been felt

0:33:58like a very different character in some

0:33:59ways but i would have been totally okay

0:34:02with that because she's obviously

0:34:03fabulous and I she does a great job with

0:34:06that like CGI character that might be my

0:34:08favorite CGI character i thought the

0:34:11character was good it was just visually

0:34:13I think it took me all right and also

0:34:14the fact that as soon as I thought of

0:34:16Edna mode from the incredibles yeah that

0:34:18was yeah I guess the kid of her in Yoda

0:34:22I kept thinking of Hetty from NCIS los

0:34:24it's and i was i was thinking about

0:34:29these cgi creatures and yet it looks

0:34:30like this four main cgi not humans in

0:34:33the movie and they're all obviously cgi

0:34:36like none of that none of them sort of

0:34:38passed the test of liked or didn't

0:34:40realize I was CGI but sorry Liz

0:34:45sometimes they're easily falls but I

0:34:49then I was thinking about it more and

0:34:53especially when i saw it again and I

0:34:54thought you know is this any worse then

0:34:57things like the rancor or the hot one /

0:35:00or yoda-like in the original trilogy

0:35:02where they were either puppets or stop

0:35:04motion and it's not like we didn't know

0:35:06you know it's not like we couldn't tell

0:35:09that they were special effects as well

0:35:11you know I were going to argue with you

0:35:12on that point on Yoda who I

0:35:14victory yeah there's a conscious

0:35:17knowledge certainly that this is not a

0:35:19real thing but just even going back and

0:35:21watching that and knowing that he's not

0:35:23real

0:35:24there's something either as an animus

0:35:26like a human animus to him because of

0:35:29the fact that there is a a person

0:35:31portraying it in like a very physical

0:35:33way that that always that I find much

0:35:35more plausible and wrong with the

0:35:38performance is amazing and you know i

0:35:40mean the Dark Crystal is one of my

0:35:42favorite movies ever and that's the same

0:35:44basically the same sort of perpetrators

0:35:46Yoda you know I have nothing against it

0:35:48and I think it's it was amazing school

0:35:50is certainly better than the CGI Yoda

0:35:51that we can 30 i will agree with you on

0:35:54the sense of the rancor you know having

0:35:55gone back like I said just watch Jedi

0:35:57you know it's clear to me that based on

0:35:58just sort of the camera angles and stuff

0:36:00that the rancor is clearly a model still

0:36:02scary enough for my like you know my

0:36:04cousin's kids a little yeah but it's it

0:36:07is it is there's always gonna Ray

0:36:08Harryhausen you know Jason the

0:36:10arrangements with the other skeletons

0:36:12weekend we know it's a special effect

0:36:13but that doesn't make you spend at this

0:36:16point right but I think for the rest of

0:36:18the film and you know it's something

0:36:20that you could look at twenty years

0:36:22later or something or 30 years later and

0:36:24it it would hold up and I think that's

0:36:27one reason why i think the the original

0:36:29film's hold up especially in there sort

0:36:31of d specialized let's strip everything

0:36:33out of them versions because you know

0:36:36they were physical things that they were

0:36:38filming and you know that this film is

0:36:43in no way as bad as the prequels in

0:36:45terms of the cgi stuff but those those

0:36:47are the things i think this stuck out

0:36:49because everything else was just right

0:36:52I think it's what I will definitely

0:36:54having having real sets made I think it

0:36:57must make such a huge difference the

0:36:58actors performances as well as just the

0:37:00way you're looking at you didn't feel

0:37:01that you were watching someone else play

0:37:03a god-awful computer game for most of

0:37:05the time and so yeah I walk you and

0:37:08always preferable work to CGI even when

0:37:11it's like cheap model work because it

0:37:14just it will look better if it doesn't

0:37:16vision is going to be better in 10 or 20

0:37:17years time anyway and and I think hear

0:37:20it did feel that either did you see GI

0:37:23it was in service to the actual real

0:37:25stuff rather than trying to use to

0:37:27replace anything

0:37:28real thats that's one of the things that

0:37:29I'm really looking forward to is

0:37:31whatever massive extended boxset blu-ray

0:37:34we get with all the making of stuff

0:37:36because it's probably time to CGI that

0:37:38was probably a ton of CGI that we not

0:37:41see

0:37:42oh it yet this is the thing like these

0:37:44four creatures are the obvious cgi but

0:37:46i'm sure there isn't a frame of this

0:37:48movie that it doesn't have some CGI

0:37:51right somewhere and that's why you

0:37:52should be used yeah where it can be put

0:37:55in seamlessly so you don't notice it not

0:37:57to be used as the whole construction and

0:37:59foundations of European media exactly

0:38:02exactly so

0:38:04alright let's move onto characters let's

0:38:05elephant in the room

0:38:07I don't know she is in the background

0:38:11wandering around with the stormtroopers

0:38:12cgi yeah i got his judgments in this

0:38:15movie like a better boat is that what

0:38:17you're trying to tell me know so we are

0:38:20we were talking about this offer before

0:38:22we started there is this whole sort of

0:38:25there's the backlash you know these

0:38:27people doing their hot takes about how

0:38:30this is actually a terrible movie and

0:38:31we're all falls and you know going right

0:38:33in its tracks

0:38:35you don't believe don't go on the

0:38:36internet it's a terrible place and Ray

0:38:40people complaining the Ray is Mary Sue

0:38:42and she's overpowered only the small and

0:38:46right i want to get specifically our

0:38:48lives i want to get your opinion about

0:38:50that

0:38:51oh my gold into what they can I swear in

0:38:54this podcast you're probably get bread

0:38:58and if anything deserves it LOL i'll

0:39:00switch to Britishness what the bleeding

0:39:03Dickens been on the phone that is that

0:39:06three is an absolutely amazing character

0:39:08is the character that I deserved at 12

0:39:11years old to get but I didn't get I got

0:39:14those bloomin prequels instead this is

0:39:17the star wars movie I should have had as

0:39:19I was growing up

0:39:20re is amazing and the actor is obviously

0:39:24fantastic but here we have she is

0:39:27getting the major here work of the story

0:39:29its hardness to our questions just a

0:39:31slow realization going into movie was

0:39:33made my mean pleasure was this just

0:39:36slowly being realizing that she was the

0:39:40one who is going to invite to be the

0:39:41hero at the end it was all focused on

0:39:43hard the other ones weren't work for

0:39:45golden but they were working in service

0:39:48to her central pillar type thing

0:39:50overpowered don't be pleading ridiculous

0:39:52she's doing some little force tricks so

0:39:54she can work out how to do it

0:39:56it's interesting because it's doing a

0:39:58different thing to what we've seen

0:39:59before

0:39:59it's not someone being trained by a

0:40:01mentor she has no manager is figuring

0:40:03out by herself

0:40:04that's different and interesting and of

0:40:07course she's a flawed characters so

0:40:08emotionally sharp edges everywhere

0:40:12because she's had to be because she shut

0:40:14down and isolated and a bit grumpy and

0:40:17techy and she just happens to be really

0:40:20good at engineering as well

0:40:21well it makes sense given the context

0:40:23that she's out scavenging all this may

0:40:25take all over the place

0:40:27why not and in order to survive she's

0:40:28going to have to keep her little and

0:40:29Lancer thing going anyway so I'm ya

0:40:32brain was amazing and my actual favorite

0:40:37moment and all the Star Wars movies now

0:40:39is the moment we get into a fight where

0:40:42we know what's happening in the little

0:40:44lightsaber starts to see but actually

0:40:46seeing it should out the snow past and

0:40:51tyler run kangaroo and I knew that and

0:40:54into her hands and her igniting it that

0:40:56was just that was amazing i I've

0:40:59definitely thought that was the best

0:41:00that the film it was it was and just

0:41:03getting it has been a very good year

0:41:05being alone liking science fiction

0:41:08things i keep getting things I like and

0:41:11pander to a nice it's like this poor

0:41:12guys all the time we much makes a

0:41:14television yeah exactly 90 percenter

0:41:16Italian that's exactly the point and

0:41:19that's why these complaints annoy me so

0:41:21much is what you have everything else

0:41:23including the original trilogy by or the

0:41:26man who are complaining they should that

0:41:29o ne but yes no amazing i love her ID or

0:41:32her i did the the i do collect some star

0:41:35wars action pictures mostly the woman

0:41:37who are in the movies i did get everyone

0:41:39before the film and then feel like oh

0:41:41dear God if I just jinxed it is nothing

0:41:44terrible's i bought a piece of

0:41:45merchandise and so glad i did I love her

0:41:47she is my hero i agree with you one

0:41:51hundred percent and it's interesting

0:41:52that you mentioned her sort of being

0:41:54damaged

0:41:54character emotionally because that's

0:41:56sort of an argument or discussion that I

0:41:59saw between several women actually on

0:42:02Twitter talking about this a couple of

0:42:04days ago and saying that you know what a

0:42:07lot of the fanboys are missing is that

0:42:09yes she may already know how to do a few

0:42:11things that she won't need to be taught

0:42:14like she doesn't need to be taught how

0:42:15to fly or how to fix a starship or

0:42:17whatever but instead what she will have

0:42:20and you can see this coming in she's

0:42:22gonna have an emotional arc because she

0:42:23is clearly so emotionally flawed as a

0:42:28character whereas in the original

0:42:29trilogy even Luke ok was a bit whiny but

0:42:32basically he was pretty much all there

0:42:35he just had to learn how to do a few

0:42:37things like you know use the Force and

0:42:38fight with the lightsaber and stuff yeah

0:42:40he knows how to do some of that stuff

0:42:42already but she is so damaged

0:42:44emotionally and I think a lot of frankly

0:42:48male fans are missing that because it's

0:42:50not something that we normally get with

0:42:52male characters it's not something that

0:42:55we normally have to kind of think about

0:42:56it as a character Iraq I think whoever I

0:42:59i think it's quite actually quite kind

0:43:02of a popular one the world it's got

0:43:04slightly different emphasis but where

0:43:06you have a male character who is like

0:43:08emotionally withdrawn and he needs to

0:43:11find the right woman to help him heal

0:43:13and becoming emotionally rounded person

0:43:14that's a fairly common truck and I I

0:43:18think seeing that apply to women and 4g

0:43:21she i'd love that she is so grumpy in

0:43:23taxi throughout it and really quite

0:43:24snappy wait it's great because that's

0:43:27often those are so often portrayed as

0:43:29very negative things on a woman you must

0:43:31be look pretty and nice and be happy and

0:43:33pandering to everyone around you and she

0:43:35doesn't and it's it's fab and just to

0:43:38make it extra delightful she's paired

0:43:40with with fen who is another very

0:43:42emotionally damaged character if you

0:43:44look so he's going to have the hero and

0:43:46argon whole hero who doesn't have is

0:43:50completes the sort of volatility but

0:43:52isn't the sort of the little box of the

0:43:53trilogy is is the white guy here all

0:43:57weekend pile it really well and it sort

0:43:59of its it feels so much like it's been

0:44:02written by someone who really cares but

0:44:04not excluding people from the star wars

0:44:06universe

0:44:07and instead of oh it's just it makes me

0:44:11so sad with the Star Wars movies

0:44:12Heather's basically i know there's more

0:44:13than one woman but basically there's one

0:44:15woman in each vellum and here is a film

0:44:18that even if it's not fifty-fifty it's

0:44:21still chilly intelligent another one

0:44:24it's gorgeous

0:44:26one of the things I was going to ask is

0:44:27in the cinema what was the gender split

0:44:30because in the showing that i saw which

0:44:33was you know the first showing it was

0:44:36way less than a quarter of the people in

0:44:38the cinema were women so is oh wow quite

0:44:41heavily biased towards man and that I

0:44:44think that'll change yeah i think we

0:44:46like I was that was my hope

0:44:48basically because this is a film that's

0:44:49obviously you know young girls that

0:44:53would be absolutely ideal for but then

0:44:55that the whole stuff of the disney

0:44:58marketing where you know that Ray who

0:45:01was as we've said is basically the main

0:45:02character isn't featured in the sort of

0:45:05the various PACs of figure 4 10 gorgeous

0:45:09but I think now that it's out and one

0:45:11sort of word spreads that you get what

0:45:14you get and you get her interactions

0:45:16with leah and you get her interactions

0:45:18with Lupita youngest character forgotten

0:45:21the neverender jobs their reports so

0:45:23delightful and chic their mentoring in

0:45:26different ways and it's very good my

0:45:29favorite were not favor I would say but

0:45:33the bit that made me laugh with Ray more

0:45:36than any other in this movie and you

0:45:38know the Stormtrooper you will undo

0:45:40these restraints yes that was that was

0:45:41very funny especially knowing that it

0:45:42was Daniel Craig under yes um how did

0:45:45you not know it was always like that was

0:45:48his cameo created there's tons of

0:45:50cameras and this like the and her junk

0:45:53dealer guy was in Paris I repair okay

0:45:56yeah yeah but my the bit that made me

0:45:58laugh with her was you know when her and

0:46:02Finn first meet and there's the whole

0:46:04like why you keep grabbing my hand like

0:46:06I know how to run let go but then when

0:46:09they get when the team gets blown up

0:46:11attacked by Tie Fighters they get

0:46:13blasted back and they're sort of both

0:46:16you know recovering they get up and he

0:46:18immediately turns around goes you're

0:46:20right

0:46:20and she's already on her feet and she

0:46:22doesn't even say much she just looks at

0:46:24me cuz ya yet to come on one I laughed

0:46:28so hard at that because there is such

0:46:30such an inversion of a stereo too i like

0:46:33that where he was running towards the

0:46:35fight I menu by the time it gets there

0:46:37she's already to meet everybody and he

0:46:39just kind of yet she perseveres all that

0:46:41will weekend when you watch it again in

0:46:43that same just look specifically at

0:46:44Daisy Ridley's active just an expression

0:46:47she is so good cause she barely says

0:46:50anything but our expression says

0:46:51everything in that moment it's so good i

0:46:54mean there's so many explicit colors

0:46:55like this thing where Hannah is trying

0:46:58to give her a blaster and she's like I

0:47:00can take care of myself and he's like

0:47:01yeah I know that's why I'm doing your

0:47:03blood that was very good

0:47:06yes it was yeah yeah yeah she's she's

0:47:09brilliant and like I don't get so you

0:47:11know coming at this from the perspective

0:47:12of you know a white guy

0:47:15yeah i just don't get the people pushing

0:47:17back on this like I love fantasy and

0:47:20science fiction of all kinds he you know

0:47:23and years I've read books with female

0:47:25protagonist every book male protagonists

0:47:27are certainly a lot more of those

0:47:29I just don't get why people are so pissy

0:47:32about it yesterday hope that it isn't

0:47:34just a loud minority I mean yeah yeah I

0:47:37don't know when and I hope not and sorry

0:47:39i hope so because I really I I think

0:47:42she's a fabulous character I think she's

0:47:44fantastic

0:47:44I had so many friends especially in the

0:47:48comics industry community with young

0:47:51daughters and exactly i need to I need

0:47:54to talk to them I cannot wait to hear

0:47:56what their reaction is going to be about

0:47:59this movie and how overjoyed i know they

0:48:01are going to be that they can take their

0:48:03daughters that you know sort of seven

0:48:05eight nine year old daughter's to see a

0:48:06Star Wars movie and know that their

0:48:09daughter is going to be looking up on

0:48:10the screen in going that me

0:48:12yeah i mean this is exactly what so you

0:48:14know I'm saying I should return the Jedi

0:48:16to my cousin's kids who are both girls

0:48:18and I'm like I'm super-psyched about

0:48:20like now that they've seen you know four

0:48:22five and six and like now I get to you

0:48:24know we can hopefully we can take them

0:48:25to episode seven because i think they

0:48:27will be so excited by this you know in

0:48:29like you're having character you know

0:48:31characters who look like them up on the

0:48:33screen and who will get to

0:48:34like no kick ass with a lightsaber and

0:48:36you know that's awesome that's great i

0:48:38just i really hate the this backlash to

0:48:42this just makes me sad it makes me upset

0:48:44in you know and it's just like I wish

0:48:46these people would just sort of get over

0:48:48that and just enjoy enjoy a film that

0:48:51has a strong you know that's a strong

0:48:53female character but like to see a

0:48:54fully-realized just exclusively I just

0:48:57just a good character that she's wrong L

0:48:59is almost even secondary to that right

0:49:00like you know it's great that she's

0:49:02wonder like why are you fixating on that

0:49:04whatever woman it's not secondary

0:49:06because there are so few of them it

0:49:08really matters and I strong people

0:49:11character phrases a very i never use

0:49:13that I practice interesting female

0:49:15character i'd also want weak female

0:49:17characters who are cowards and

0:49:19frightened terrified scream as well I

0:49:21want to fill in broad range of all

0:49:23humanity things

0:49:25yeah I want to say not that I didn't

0:49:26mean strong as it only physically or

0:49:28emotionally stronger as like a a strong

0:49:30character a character was built well a

0:49:32three-dimensional character and I you

0:49:34know sometimes misunderstood phrase that

0:49:35is nation exactly they're already well

0:49:37lately wrong emphasis

0:49:38yeah yeah the well-developed character

0:49:40who is not just like they're as the

0:49:42girlfriend or someone to be like as in

0:49:45so many you know franchises killed off

0:49:48to give the male protagonist a reason to

0:49:50go do their thing right like all of that

0:49:52is terrible and it's just a little light

0:49:54it does matter

0:49:55I mean there's a there's a wonderful

0:49:57line that just weeding gave an interview

0:49:59many years ago which I have stolen and

0:50:01used myself many many times because I

0:50:03write comics and you know books and

0:50:07stuff with female protagonists almost

0:50:10exclusively not quite squishy but almost

0:50:12exclusively and whenever i get asked why

0:50:14why is this character or a woman why do

0:50:16you write you know focus on writing

0:50:18strong female characters i always give

0:50:20the same after the just we can get which

0:50:22is because it's 2015 and you're still

0:50:24asking me that question

0:50:26it's a very when he said it was 2003 but

0:50:29you know your hands are getting but you

0:50:31get the point

0:50:32hey I didn't mean to say that it's

0:50:34unimportant that she is a female

0:50:36character obviously you know I think

0:50:38that's it's tremendously gratifying to

0:50:41see that in a in a Star Wars story

0:50:43honestly because why not

0:50:44I guess is like they always the thing

0:50:46come down to is likewise

0:50:47there's no conceivable reason this

0:50:49should be the domain of you know of of

0:50:51men in any way and you know say what you

0:50:54want for the the prequels but at least

0:50:56they did you know develop you know

0:50:58female Jedi they had like a little bit

0:51:00more representation in some of those

0:51:02like you know whether than in the

0:51:03original trilogy we're all of this Jedi

0:51:06that we see our men and especially if

0:51:08you can go on and watch the Clone Wars

0:51:10or Star Wars rebels TV series in which

0:51:12there are many female characters who

0:51:14play really important roles in our

0:51:15awesome you know it's it's great to see

0:51:18that reflected in the in the main

0:51:20franchise have you seen the I think it's

0:51:23the sort of lego star wars droid tails i

0:51:27think the little a TV series because i

0:51:31know of them but i have wanted that

0:51:32they're fantastic the most recent what I

0:51:34saw had the best line in it and somebody

0:51:37says to you de there aren't many women

0:51:39in the star wars universe or something

0:51:40like that and he says men fix this in

0:51:43the future shall we

0:51:44they're very good and self-referential

0:51:48the things yet and in the prequels where

0:51:50we do have a lot of more at least not a

0:51:53lot of women and in the background

0:51:54playing Jedi and suchlike in effect a

0:51:57bit parts of you got any lines at all

0:51:58the nice thing is the dead t quite a lot

0:52:00of those in the Clone Wars and give them

0:52:02actual character things which I schools

0:52:05is one minor redeeming feature of the

0:52:07prequel movies it's got cool north and

0:52:09oh my god Star Wars rebels is amazing

0:52:12again it just makes me better that I was

0:52:15not given this at the appropriate age

0:52:17because Hera who's piloting the ship

0:52:19she's at we like smuggler pilot with a

0:52:22smuggler shit she's like oh oh you're

0:52:25the capture that clean star wars and the

0:52:28old republic it because I like smuggling

0:52:31and yeah its just oh it's just you feel

0:52:34validated like a real person when you

0:52:37see reflections on the television it's

0:52:39great exactly and the whole business of

0:52:41her being overpowered as well again when

0:52:43i watched it again i was really watching

0:52:45for this and I you may have seen it

0:52:48floating around online it's become a bit

0:52:49of a has been passed around a lot idem a

0:52:52graphic talking about the original

0:52:54trilogy in pointing out how Luke heart

0:52:56and

0:52:56veda well on the prequels were all

0:52:58incredibly high powered characters you

0:53:01know they were all trapped crack shots

0:53:03or some pilots great engineers hard was

0:53:05multilingual uh huh you know if princess

0:53:08fell in love with him

0:53:09Luke destroyed the Death Star with his

0:53:10eyes closed aveda became the most feared

0:53:13sit in the galaxy after being hacked to

0:53:14pieces and survived all this stuff and

0:53:16yet people are saying ray is overpowered

0:53:19because she helps harm fix the

0:53:23Millennium Falcon and she beats what is

0:53:26clearly a fairly novice Seth in a

0:53:30lightsaber fight and he's injured very

0:53:32badly injured by the way and she still

0:53:34almost gets beaten by him

0:53:36so this whole idea that she's

0:53:39overpowered is just absolutely absurd

0:53:41and I I guarantee if in an alternate

0:53:44alternate universe where this is a male

0:53:46character not a single person anywhere

0:53:49is saying always a bit overpowered that

0:53:51character is any we want that matter

0:53:54that there are overpowered it's not a

0:53:55video game where you have to have some

0:53:56sort of you know Bella understand we are

0:53:59not these things are fictional people we

0:54:00have to be you know exactly as they are

0:54:02real life with their hyper spaces and

0:54:05laser swords and that's right

0:54:06empires and grownup a son draining the

0:54:10song that you're orbiting of energy to

0:54:13fire web now I mean you know yes its

0:54:16star wars and the physics doesn't make

0:54:18any sense but that that was the one bit

0:54:20that I was like wait a second

0:54:22but if we're going to get into arguing

0:54:24that ABA can't go on sand then 20 cm

0:54:29completely be but that actually is a

0:54:31very good point something i had problem

0:54:33with was when they actually fired the

0:54:34weapon selection crossed arms no matter

0:54:36how fast is that energy going because

0:54:39they say afterwards that it so it is a

0:54:41hyper-lightspeed weapon

0:54:42ok that's ok that's fine then I

0:54:45obviously missed that line for me

0:54:47probably munching popcorn

0:54:48I'm oh no I only spotted on on second

0:54:51viewing and I'm actually i'm less fine

0:54:52with the fact that everybody else sees

0:54:54it instantly

0:54:55yeah but after detonating bag but but

0:54:59calling a hyper-lightspeed is totally

0:55:02fine then but there was a comment that

0:55:04everybody saw it at once because there

0:55:06was a terror

0:55:07hyperspace was the club i had that is

0:55:10that is that if we say that assumes

0:55:12facts not in evidence yeah yeah but i'll

0:55:13buy it

0:55:14JJ Abrams I think said so but draining

0:55:17the Sun less so

0:55:19well yeah yeah well I i will say yeah

0:55:23that was there there are a lot of things

0:55:25to him without me again if you go back

0:55:26and look at the original trilogy you

0:55:28know for years the nerves of hand weight

0:55:30over the Kessel run in 12 parts and yeah

0:55:32yeah we need to hang a lantern on here

0:55:35we can write about it but you know a

0:55:38hell it doesn't really matter it's

0:55:40science fiction in this not even science

0:55:42fiction it's fantasy right like brothers

0:55:44in this isn't our universe projected

0:55:46forward space long time ago it's a far

0:55:48far away don't worry too much just don't

0:55:50worry it's just a show just relax I'm

0:55:53but it to talk about sort of bad physics

0:55:57and throw back to the original what is

0:56:00it with the Empire putting all these

0:56:02vital switches and the universe like

0:56:06halfway down a cliff face and you know

0:56:08like the truly original tractor beam

0:56:10around the back of a do you know on a

0:56:13tiny little walkway over in a bit but

0:56:15that's how you switch the tractor beam

0:56:17off is it there's a workplace standards

0:56:18in outer space the Empire and the first

0:56:21order both are really they don't really

0:56:23care too much about employee safety

0:56:24their health plans are terrible I don't

0:56:26worry but when Ray's climbing down the

0:56:28wall in the hangar she sees that switch

0:56:30and I'm like why is there even a leaver

0:56:32there

0:56:33what are you gonna do fly a starship and

0:56:35leaned out the window employees to do is

0:56:36just like a closet or something

0:56:38the engineering teams must like have

0:56:40this Union who are look so annoyed and

0:56:42pissed off

0:56:43they're like okay you know what we're

0:56:44going to do guys we can get a clear idea

0:56:46of grabbing whatever over there they say

0:56:49anything about it then there'll be no

0:56:52livre so yeah they're just staring at

0:56:54them tapping their foot you wanted a

0:56:55lever I think this just seller is the

0:56:59sum architect that we haven't seen yet

0:57:01and you like really like designing rhyme

0:57:04battle stage that was one of my favorite

0:57:09another year awards reviews way they

0:57:11were like no we were taking up the Death

0:57:12Star this was the Death Star

0:57:14this is our you what it's just like the

0:57:16death star 10 times bigger

0:57:17yeah hot even go so long ago

0:57:19so about yeah it's a bit like the the

0:57:24monty python and the holy grail thing

0:57:26with the castles in the swamp isn't it

0:57:28burned down fell over and then sank into

0:57:31the swamp knob solicit a completely

0:57:34seriously of course talking about

0:57:36architect the other thing i noticed was

0:57:38one of the ways they made it really feel

0:57:42like the original trilogy was on

0:57:43Starkiller base those like vertical

0:57:46lights in the walls which were nowhere

0:57:49really to be seen in the prequels butter

0:57:51all over the original trilogy and just

0:57:54that and the slanting corridor walls and

0:57:57things like so many little design

0:57:59touches yes that do call back to the

0:58:01original trilogy

0:58:02yeah that was always a problem with the

0:58:03original prequels was as our technology

0:58:06progressed out here and yet in the star

0:58:11wars universe where I remember thinking

0:58:13that the time like how are they going to

0:58:14explain how chintzy and terrible

0:58:17everything in the original shows at work

0:58:19and it turns out that's exactly what

0:58:20they did was like the sort of backpedal

0:58:22they were like how it was a golden age

0:58:23everything was much more organic and lua

0:58:25and like okay that's not impossible

0:58:27there are plenty of architectural and

0:58:29design school changes if you looked you

0:58:31know 30 40 years in the past now you

0:58:34would see very different things then you

0:58:35see today and if you project that

0:58:37forward you would be very different

0:58:38things as well but it never ended up

0:58:41feeling like star wars because of that

0:58:44and so I love that they clearly use

0:58:47modern technology to build all of these

0:58:50sets and everything and yet the design

0:58:52of them in the aesthetic of them is does

0:58:55not clash with the original trilogy

0:58:58running it suddenly done and it's not

0:59:00like you have all the same like crazy

0:59:02blinking lights and see there's a CRT

0:59:04monitor which is sort of how you go in

0:59:08the wrong direction about that but it is

0:59:10nice they tip their hat without you no

0:59:12feeling like that too

0:59:13slavish Lee adhere to what the original

0:59:16trilogy look like yeah and one other you

0:59:19may not notice so much but I'm sure us

0:59:22three did one of the thing that made it

0:59:25feel like the original trilogy minimal

0:59:26amount of British character actors yeah

0:59:29even thing that was the that was the

0:59:31thing that took me out the film

0:59:32absolutely the most was the Scottish

0:59:34accent on that gangly yes I don't bear

0:59:37the risk free drinks it was an accident

0:59:40i don't know the idea was a perfectly

0:59:41fine acts and it was just like you know

0:59:43this is space while the Scottish people

0:59:45were not these people are everywhere any

0:59:49Oh have you seen starter but i don't

0:59:51know what i mean but it's something like

0:59:54in dog poo

0:59:55I'm absolutely happy for all the

0:59:57Scottish this in it and i love that the

0:59:59the doctor

0:59:59the doctor

1:00:00scottish again and but unless it was

1:00:03just it was like the one thing knows I'm

1:00:06just gonna English accent and American

1:00:10accents haha yeah yeah okay so I'm gonna

1:00:12get thrown out of the country for this

1:00:14comment but high but it was just it was

1:00:17I think it was the thing was when he

1:00:20spoke there was a big laugh in the

1:00:22cinema because we're really yeah because

1:00:24everybody's like what is going on

1:00:25otherwise what you are you allowed to go

1:00:27so there ya how I didn't really see it

1:00:31was dignified groans of my cinema

1:00:33another well kind of but the one that

1:00:36really got me was Harriet Walter who

1:00:38plays the nurse how tattoo don't want to

1:00:42lose her face and I kept being like why

1:00:43do I know her

1:00:44yeah attending to go you must have been

1:00:46very brave yeah it's likely that that

1:00:49was i'm actually even a little bit sad

1:00:51that john-boy it doesn't get to use this

1:00:53actual accent though I could see the eye

1:00:55could see the same people who are upset

1:00:57about rave throwing a fit over who two

1:00:59main characters with British accent with

1:01:02isn't Star Wars was America

1:01:06yeah i did like the the in people did

1:01:08not appear the first-order we're

1:01:09sticking with the British accent thing

1:01:12we even though there are means they're

1:01:13all evil but what everything we've

1:01:15always been the village but what

1:01:17interested me was em in the original

1:01:19trilogy the module the officers and the

1:01:23contractors from Green shell and

1:01:25luxurious turning up naturally they're

1:01:27all tending towards middle-aged men

1:01:29whereas in this one and the even general

1:01:33it was was very young and call you know

1:01:35it was a nice nor to the fact that the

1:01:37old Empire that have been around for at

1:01:39least a generation that was aging a bit

1:01:40where is this is a fresh young fascist

1:01:43regime and young people are signing up

1:01:45and you can get straight to the top of

1:01:47you join up young people and want to

1:01:48have washed and fashion kill millions

1:01:50most of the old people got blowed up so

1:01:52also the exactly yeah burn down fell

1:01:55over into the swamp and asthma

1:01:58yes speaking speaking of minor

1:02:01characters

1:02:02oh my goodness why I mean I love

1:02:04gwendoline christie and nobody nobody so

1:02:06I'm sure she will be back but didn't

1:02:08feel she was kind of wasted

1:02:10yeah i mean it was like she's the boba

1:02:11fett

1:02:12oh yeah he's a really cool character

1:02:15design completely wasted and everybody

1:02:17be dressing up as her for years to come

1:02:20but maybe a chance for something good

1:02:22next week I mean she got like hope so

1:02:24yeah they were gonna put down a garbage

1:02:26chute and like I trying to really enjoy

1:02:28that line though that like this is I

1:02:30liked it but I mean she gave up far too

1:02:33easily it was like you know you didn't

1:02:35she

1:02:35until the head all yo kal-el you know

1:02:38lower the shields and do everything no

1:02:39you won't you'll like these dr. take a

1:02:42little more ass

1:02:43yeah but yet nobody so she will be back

1:02:46and Mars as well there was no even

1:02:49though her entire place was completely

1:02:51river I assume she's totally fine

1:02:53yeah there's nobody so you know she'll

1:02:55you don't need your Jabra speaking of

1:02:57those ruins did anybody else get a

1:02:58really really strong Lord of the Rings

1:03:01vibe when the Empire not the Empire

1:03:04sorry the first-order landed and

1:03:07colorings walking through the ruins

1:03:09while the battle goes on i was thinking

1:03:11i was Gillian isn't it you know it

1:03:14reminded me a little bit of a the end of

1:03:16a new hope with the the Mayan temples

1:03:18and you haven't for I don't have it's

1:03:21like viber that going on which was not

1:03:23bad i really enjoyed the design of just

1:03:25the outside of the place which almost

1:03:26feels like that with the there's almost

1:03:29like nepalese prayer flags like many

1:03:31flags across the it again it's a nice i

1:03:35feel like you do a nice job but this is

1:03:37this film does a nice job of the alien

1:03:39environments that it does display even

1:03:42though some of them are you know things

1:03:44that are callbacks like jakku feels very

1:03:46much like Tatooine although a little

1:03:49more from you know littered with debris

1:03:51and a little more sparsely populated

1:03:53even and but that's faisal that's very

1:03:56populated because they drop some Star

1:03:58Destroyers on everything from the

1:04:01Greenwich cool was that it

1:04:02well was it did feel different tattoo

1:04:05which is a pretty impressive given the

1:04:07bulls as far as we know their desert

1:04:09planets it's and sound everywhere and

1:04:12yet you're there is a very much

1:04:14different feel to a different culture

1:04:16and and obviously jacket looks amazing

1:04:19with what we did with the with the

1:04:21salvage and the debris just littered

1:04:24there that was thinking

1:04:25a massive star destroyer the other I

1:04:27think that was the moment actually in

1:04:28the trailer in the first trailer when I

1:04:30saw that bit in the trailer i was like

1:04:31'oh sold sold woman yeah it did have the

1:04:35same moisture farm like machine

1:04:38machinery as x is not a boy stur though

1:04:40I mean come on he's still in together

1:04:42I really like to the design of the areas

1:04:46surrounding the weapon on Starkiller

1:04:48base i like to know because it will say

1:04:50what you will about the Sun getting

1:04:52drained but it is it does provide that

1:04:54that lightsaber duel in the dark forest

1:04:56which I thought was going to happen just

1:04:58as hard eyes as well sure yeah it with

1:05:01Melanie knows maybe but i just i love

1:05:03the I love the look of the fight in the

1:05:05forest with the snow in the trees and

1:05:08the darkness like it's just it's it

1:05:10looks beautiful and it feels unlike a

1:05:14lot of the other Star Wars tools we've

1:05:15seen especially you know the more recent

1:05:18ones which always seem to end either

1:05:19there's lava or there's some other huge

1:05:22crazy background that was one of the

1:05:24Magnificent about things about this was

1:05:25the two seem to take the view of jewel

1:05:27back to the original children what made

1:05:29it so good around without having anyone

1:05:32do the most ridiculous over-the-top

1:05:33unlikely feats which were of course all

1:05:36times the force but having bits of

1:05:38building falling across lava that you

1:05:40just happened to jump to just sometimes

1:05:42it's just you know

1:05:43yeah it really felt like video games

1:05:46yeah well more than about the fights and

1:05:47the frequency to me felt like watching

1:05:49like a kendo exhibition or something

1:05:51we're generating that they didn't feel

1:05:53like actual fights they felt like people

1:05:56showing golf for the benefit of an

1:05:58audience and what's interesting about

1:06:00them is that they are callbacks to the

1:06:02original trilogy i remember you know

1:06:03before the prequels came out people

1:06:06saying I think Lucas probably saying

1:06:08like well you know all we've really seen

1:06:09they are untrained like an old men

1:06:13untrained boys and like a man who's more

1:06:16machine right now you know those are the

1:06:18only examples we have of sort of

1:06:20lightsaber duels and so when we got to

1:06:22the prequels they went like the other

1:06:24direction entirely right which is like

1:06:25the supertrain hyper competent Jedi

1:06:28doing flips and jumps and all sorts of

1:06:29crazy acrobatics and now we're back to

1:06:33sort of to essentially two kids who

1:06:36neither of whom is really super

1:06:38well-trained obviously I think

1:06:39Lorraine has the edge in training but

1:06:42he's not super competent in the way that

1:06:45any of those you know prequels character

1:06:48roller at best he's probably on par with

1:06:50luke from like Empire right you know and

1:06:53and so it's interesting to see that

1:06:56especially you know when you throw

1:06:58things in the next two who clearly is

1:07:01just like I've got a baseball bat right

1:07:03it's like you don't see what I can do

1:07:05with that you know it's it's very

1:07:07interesting to see the fight

1:07:08choreography you still looks great to my

1:07:10eyes and modern but it's also believably

1:07:12rough

1:07:13yeah and improvised improvisational

1:07:16speaking of rain trailers the snow and

1:07:20all that

1:07:20here's the thing where you all are

1:07:23certainly was waiting for the bit where

1:07:25he walks into frame and lights the

1:07:27lightsaber and then the crossguard like

1:07:29where was that the were to the best of

1:07:32my knowledge and recollection there were

1:07:33four shots in those or four things about

1:07:36the trailers over there are several yeah

1:07:38well in this movie there's that bit

1:07:40where he walks into the forest and we

1:07:41see the the four-pronged three-pronged

1:07:43lightsaber for the first time there is

1:07:45the Stormtrooper the view of the

1:07:48Stormtrooper landing craft opening from

1:07:49the inside which we never see in the

1:07:52movie there is a raised line there were

1:07:58stories about what happened and you know

1:08:00they cut that with harm talk about the

1:08:02forces think it's all true it's all real

1:08:04she never says that and a smoke saying

1:08:10the dark side and the lights

1:08:12yes that part I card that he did say

1:08:13that in some of the shots are you know

1:08:15obviously as you do oftentimes in

1:08:17trailers they cut things differently

1:08:19here for example in the in the third

1:08:21trailer where they have the minute were

1:08:23the the shot of the ship taking off and

1:08:26then the shot of Ray kind of looking

1:08:27away wistfully which are two different

1:08:29shots in the Aviators the scene where

1:08:32she's looking wistfully is that the old

1:08:33woman scrubbing things and there's the

1:08:35scene later on with the with the ship

1:08:37taking off so you know can't actually

1:08:40there are different elements they're my

1:08:42biggest complaint about Native flip some

1:08:44shots as well near that sort of editing

1:08:46you expect but the fact that there were

1:08:47literally shots in there i mean the one

1:08:50with with rain especially it's almost as

1:08:52if that

1:08:53was filmed specifically for the trailer

1:08:55because it wouldn't even make much sense

1:08:57in if it was in the movie you know right

1:08:59right and i think he doesn't even have

1:09:00his helmet on at that point either which

1:09:02is another I know that's true yeah and

1:09:04which I was thinking about but the thing

1:09:05that ticks me off them horses that I

1:09:07love the trailer music i love the

1:09:09trailer music so much and it's all

1:09:12specific to the trailer a lot of its

1:09:14recut versions of original movie themes

1:09:17some of which are used in the score

1:09:19elsewhere but those particular

1:09:21constructions for the trailers aren't

1:09:23anywhere i just want i think we stay

1:09:25just throwing them as tracks on the end

1:09:26of the soundtrack even that would have

1:09:28been plenty fine for me because those

1:09:29are so well put together sometimes they

1:09:31can't know because there by different

1:09:33people

1:09:34those are all john williams i I'd first

1:09:36certain I mean he's talking about he's

1:09:38specifically wrote music for that first

1:09:40time is Erica and the other stuff is

1:09:41definitely stuff from clearly from

1:09:44earlier you know the original trilogy

1:09:46essentially the force theme stuff it's

1:09:47just the arrangements are slightly

1:09:49different right i only say that because

1:09:51sometimes some trailers though like will

1:09:53use songs that are literally from like

1:09:56other movies and some of them will use

1:09:58music that is actually written for the

1:10:00trailer but by a different composer the

1:10:03best example modern example that is the

1:10:05music that everybody associates with

1:10:07inception

1:10:08no not arrogant or thrown right well not

1:10:13just that but the just the sort of this

1:10:15the string bit yeah with that goes over

1:10:18that goes under that rather everybody

1:10:21thinks that that's in the movie and it's

1:10:22not there's something like that in the

1:10:24movie by is a and Zimmer I think I'm but

1:10:27that's not the same thing and the music

1:10:30in the trailer is a completely different

1:10:31track called mindcrime I think or mind

1:10:35Radar Online mind heist got there in the

1:10:39end by completely from composer and was

1:10:42written i believe for that trailer so

1:10:44it's not on the original soundtrack even

1:10:46you have to if you want to get that I've

1:10:47got it you have to buy it separately as

1:10:49like its own something because it's yeah

1:10:52just a bit different so i wondered if

1:10:54that might be the case but you say it's

1:10:55not easy is all day i'm pretty sure i

1:10:57know for a fact that the first trailer

1:10:59was john william so i would really

1:11:01assume the next ones were or

1:11:03and worse are cobbled together versions

1:11:05of stuff from the earlier from the

1:11:07original trilogy because it's got all

1:11:08the themes just you know it's put

1:11:10together indifferently as someone who

1:11:12spent a lifetime this thing starts epic

1:11:14I i can tell you where all the cuts are

1:11:16and where all the like little segways

1:11:18are and everything I think one of the

1:11:20things that impressed me about the film

1:11:230 means that it was a good film is that

1:11:26when i was watching it wasn't really

1:11:27deconstructing it and I wasn't something

1:11:29so upsetting like going all I like that

1:11:32piece of music or that special effect

1:11:34doesn't work or that kind of thing I was

1:11:36just so totally in it really until it

1:11:40ended I mean there's just a couple of

1:11:41things like with the the the smoke and

1:11:45and the Scottish mist which I'll shut up

1:11:48go on James come on it was just you know

1:11:53for most of it i was just you know it's

1:11:56it's a whole thing which i was

1:11:57experiencing there was i tried to do

1:12:00that with the music actually I was

1:12:02trying to listen for themes and the

1:12:05first time we heard raised theme which i

1:12:07think is when she is sitting in her

1:12:09little at apartment watching ships blast

1:12:11often you know wearing her x-wing helmet

1:12:14for fun and they play her theme i think

1:12:17that's her thing play for the first time

1:12:18and I specifically thought I this must

1:12:21be her theme i will listen to it and try

1:12:23and remember it and then listen out for

1:12:25it when I hear it again later in the

1:12:26movie and then of course 10 minutes

1:12:28later she gets in the Millennium Falcon

1:12:29from that point on

1:12:30forget it i don't know matter thinking

1:12:32in my brain but whatsoever because that

1:12:36is that was the first bit we're from the

1:12:40moment they get in the falken to the

1:12:42moment they escaped the planet in the

1:12:44fall can escape the TIE fighters i

1:12:46suddenly realized that i had just been

1:12:47grinning like a lunatic for the previous

1:12:50ten minutes and you know from that point

1:12:53on again I was alright i mean i'm sold

1:12:55online i am now just enjoying and

1:12:56watching this movie because that whole

1:12:58sequence with the falken was just so

1:13:01great so pitch perfect so I mean

1:13:05perfectly and obviously it sort of

1:13:07nostalgic all men like me but the kids

1:13:09around me seems to be really getting

1:13:11into it as well really excited about it

1:13:13as well

1:13:13yeah is a gruesome

1:13:15amazing there obviously being a fan he

1:13:17he does have a template for what not to

1:13:20do which I think must have been very

1:13:21handy because you don't often have that

1:13:23go into making another movie but am but

1:13:26knowing the weight of those of certain

1:13:29particular moments and managing to get

1:13:31them right

1:13:32each one happening i think that the

1:13:35return of the introduction of the

1:13:37millennium fawlcon them finding that

1:13:39first of all as the garbage but I didn't

1:13:41even registered there or you have the

1:13:42garbage and joke until did actually

1:13:46we're heading for the full conversely

1:13:47undead hatchery and heart and hand

1:13:52coming on board and it was just worse

1:13:54and i think it was perfect of all was

1:13:57the reunion between han and Leia and

1:14:00have the cut through it with citi field

1:14:03thinking is added this made my also do

1:14:08you probably don't know recognize me

1:14:11thank you yeah perfect three PR but I

1:14:19think maybe cracked me up more than that

1:14:22they get a huge laugh in the city man i

1:14:24was watching it everybody was just yet

1:14:27because it you're right perfect 3pm and

1:14:30yeah there was so many parts of this

1:14:31that were kind of yes they were

1:14:33throwbacks and little callbacks for the

1:14:35benefit of nostalgic people like us but

1:14:37like I say you know those moments did

1:14:39get certainly in the cinema where I was

1:14:41watching it did get you know laughs and

1:14:43cheers and excitement and stuff from the

1:14:46kids watching it is also i really i have

1:14:48really high hopes that you know this

1:14:50will engender a whole new generation of

1:14:53Star Wars fans

1:14:55well I'm gonna this presumably going to

1:14:56be people who have seen this that this

1:14:58is the first i was feeling they've seen

1:15:00some true i actually went with one and I

1:15:02i wish i had i don't like because here

1:15:05yeah well I wish I would have talked to

1:15:07her a little bit more afterwards against

1:15:09my life my best friend from college his

1:15:11wife who we've tried to watch star wars

1:15:12with before she falls asleep every time

1:15:14I know and so I know I know always a

1:15:17good scene so we were little qualities

1:15:18had to go to this one so she's never

1:15:20seen any of them all the way through and

1:15:21so we were trying to get an idea for

1:15:22afterwards what you thought about that

1:15:24and I would like to like get a chance to

1:15:25pin her down a little more and be like

1:15:27so what did

1:15:27actually think but I think she was I

1:15:29think she stayed awake so that's a good

1:15:31sign

1:15:31ok times up lighter up all right

1:15:36kylo Ren what do we think of him as a

1:15:38villain I like that he was basically a

1:15:40stroppy teenager

1:15:41yeah well and I I loved his tantrum with

1:15:44the lightsaber where he said smashes

1:15:46look like and then people just up the

1:15:48stormtroopers backing away clearly have

1:15:51been there before and they hope they

1:15:53glow just to get away I have what he

1:15:57yeah he's an immature kid I think I

1:15:59think James totally right and i think

1:16:00one of the fascinating things to me

1:16:02about having thought about this for the

1:16:03last couple days is that in some ways

1:16:06he's the dark reflection of luke from

1:16:08the original yes yes and we get that so

1:16:12much through through his story up to the

1:16:14point where he faced with his father can

1:16:17kill him right on i was just 18 that's

1:16:20part of the reason that why i think this

1:16:23move manager sports well there's so many

1:16:24bits of it that have reflections in the

1:16:28original trilogy and that I think have

1:16:31been disparaged in some places as being

1:16:34it's kind of more of a remake than a new

1:16:37movie but i think particularly for Star

1:16:39Wars it works so well because it is all

1:16:42about the funeral of a cycle of the

1:16:45legend the two and flowing between the

1:16:47dark side and the light side and for

1:16:49this to be the next generation we're

1:16:51getting like and and for the actual fact

1:16:54if you are interested in what happened

1:16:55what the previous event generations

1:16:57adventures were like you don't catch the

1:16:59prequels to look at if you were a fan of

1:17:01the star wars if you're a fan of these

1:17:02star wars want to know what lasts like

1:17:04you've got proper movies to look at

1:17:06which I just think is very kind

1:17:08don't-don't-don't you know Liz that the

1:17:10entire prequel is in fact full of

1:17:12rapport prequels are replete with all

1:17:15please don't actually all right is

1:17:17everything alright alright I waiting for

1:17:19them to like BBA rolling through the

1:17:22back of the prefect about of my really

1:17:27like the ren wasn't that they didn't

1:17:29even try to make another Vader break

1:17:33he's abusive Vader wanna be there yet

1:17:35that's what is afraid of family yeah but

1:17:38must have been so attempting them

1:17:40you know basically cosplaying as deftly

1:17:42and yeah he's kind of like a

1:17:45personification of the writers

1:17:46frustrations of how am I going to live

1:17:48up to eight are right yeah yeah because

1:17:51you can't you can't and so I think it's

1:17:53great that they just stared away from

1:17:55that completely because let's face it if

1:17:57they had tried to make you know sort of

1:18:00a dora like they'd be getting criticisms

1:18:02probably from the same people who don't

1:18:04like Ren that they failed to make

1:18:07somebody as imposing lu lu will never

1:18:10make somebody who was as iconic and

1:18:12imposing is Veda is like so they didn't

1:18:13even try didn't happen try and instead

1:18:16make somebody really interesting and

1:18:19very very well performed I thought I'd

1:18:21never i had no idea who Adam driver even

1:18:24was never seen girls never heard of him

1:18:26before something the last couple of days

1:18:28I've heard they learned he was and I

1:18:30thought he was brilliant

1:18:32he's greatness that I thought the best

1:18:34analysis of kylo Ren is a character i

1:18:37read a review that my friend Matt

1:18:39transpo stood somewhere and he mentioned

1:18:41how in some ways calorie is kind of the

1:18:44embodiment of all those people that we

1:18:46were just talking about who are so

1:18:48annoying

1:18:48gray like listen essentially kind of a

1:18:51troll right like and there is almost

1:18:53that element at the end where he tells

1:18:54you know to tell is a thinner ray that

1:18:58he's like that's my lightsaber basically

1:19:00with with Luke's original lightsaber

1:19:01it's when Finn has it yeah yeah and he's

1:19:03like it is it that you know there's

1:19:05almost an element of possession of that

1:19:07like no you're not you're not really old

1:19:09age yet I yeah you're just half a Jedi

1:19:12boy and so I think it's great that he is

1:19:15kind of like in some ways that is sort

1:19:18of the manifestation of of Medicine

1:19:22villainy in our in our society today in

1:19:25the same way that like you know I think

1:19:27back to when you know in Raiders of the

1:19:29Lost Ark where were Spielberg is using

1:19:31sort of the Nazis and how the Nazis

1:19:33become shorthand and you know obviously

1:19:35the Empire borrows a lot from that

1:19:36iconography and stuff and and we don't

1:19:39necessarily even more so

1:19:40right right and we don't even we don't

1:19:42necessarily have that as something

1:19:43that's a you know the kind of threats

1:19:45that we deal with in the win the world

1:19:47today right there isn't like that sort

1:19:49of you know Nazi Party German sweeping

1:19:52Europe thing but there is

1:19:53menace and and just sort of her from vet

1:19:57that they're not to make this political

1:19:59pockets but there is a menace and

1:20:01venomous acted like the internet and

1:20:03like just the sort of like that that

1:20:05prepossession with like I'm right you're

1:20:08wrong i don't know that whole egotism it

1:20:12is whiny teenager name is like so much

1:20:15of the menace that we face these days

1:20:16that in some ways it makes a better

1:20:18resonant villainy than that then that

1:20:21retread of the original wood it's a more

1:20:24modern feel and I saw somebody referred

1:20:25to him as mr a safe at that

1:20:29yeah you could do worse than that that's

1:20:31pretty good

1:20:32no i think i think the the fascism that

1:20:34they were sort of riffing on here was

1:20:37especially with calling their leader is

1:20:39going supremely just and waited in

1:20:41general is living speech his arms it

1:20:43spins bit more and miscellany and guilty

1:20:46then dead Swartz that's in there is sort

1:20:49of poking fun etete and rush because

1:20:51here

1:20:52yeah because the the Italian fascists if

1:20:55we let if you are ridiculous in many

1:20:59many ways and between especially and if

1:21:01you watch anything speeches it's very

1:21:03difficult to take him seriously because

1:21:05and they were definitely to me they felt

1:21:07like they were urging were in that

1:21:09direction and as an enable I charges a

1:21:12subtle poking fun at it which is what

1:21:14you should do because it's terrible

1:21:15terrible thing and it should be laughed

1:21:17at

1:21:17but and but ya know that was interesting

1:21:19that the thing with a color end that

1:21:22surprised me was his parents were

1:21:25because I went into the film absolutely

1:21:27convinced well ray is clearly going to

1:21:29be you know hand layers daughter and

1:21:32kyler n might be Luke Skywalker's son or

1:21:35something like that and i think it's

1:21:37probably the complete opposite is true

1:21:39and and they draw on them they drop that

1:21:42within about you know whatever is 20

1:21:45minutes into the film where smoke says a

1:21:47your you know your father or something

1:21:50and go all right

1:21:51yes it is she's it when Ray's escapes is

1:21:53like a skate with the help of your

1:21:54father

1:21:55yeah in in the Millennium Falcon with

1:21:57your father Han Solo is ok let's lay all

1:22:00I can almost

1:22:01offhandedly which was kind of odd for me

1:22:03it wasn't like there's no column actic

1:22:05reveal their it's just like it's just

1:22:06like oh btdubs but i think that i think

1:22:09you're right that's a good subversion

1:22:11because it means we don't have the whole

1:22:12eye on your father thing you know sort

1:22:15of because people would have been

1:22:16expecting that I am your son yeah other

1:22:19way again which it does is interpreting

1:22:23and reinterpreting the original children

1:22:25in its own way for the new generation

1:22:26type thing which i wish someone would

1:22:28just go through all the points where it

1:22:30does that I'm sure somebody thinks

1:22:32they're the the advent fascinating what

1:22:34they've chosen to do with with the

1:22:36effectively that the characters in The

1:22:38Legend this time round as soon as

1:22:40somebody gets hold of a DVD copy i'm

1:22:42sure that they will do exactly that

1:22:45so I just segue raise parentage easy

1:22:51no I don't be like all four well no I

1:22:54eat I want to do not harden layers

1:22:56daughter I wanted to be not be anybody's

1:22:57daughter

1:22:58well as you i would actually prefer that

1:23:00as well but I think it's fairly clear

1:23:01from all the emphasis on her about her

1:23:03family and lineage that that's not going

1:23:04to be the case

1:23:05I mean if she's hands daughter I mean

1:23:07that the phrase that popped into my head

1:23:08was is your kids hand something's gotta

1:23:11be done about your haha ah when

1:23:15Christopher Lloyd shows about this movie

1:23:16is really out there but I think I mean

1:23:20just with the handover of the lightsaber

1:23:22in in the last scene there seemed to be

1:23:25you know I don't know if Luke was going

1:23:27she looks vaguely familiar and I'm and

1:23:30her on a planet

1:23:32oh i thought you say I must look as much

1:23:34like antagonists I can

1:23:36yeah well that's right yes I do is that

1:23:38I think there's a residence in the story

1:23:41of her being so much like Luke in her

1:23:44upbringing that makes it a little too

1:23:47over-the-top if she is also Luke's

1:23:50actual daughter because in some ways

1:23:53it's like well I've got to turn my

1:23:54daughter into an awesome Jed I'll do

1:23:56exactly what was done with me recipe

1:23:58work greats like I I should leave around

1:24:00a desert planet and but the day and she

1:24:03can watch her mentor get killed by an

1:24:05evil safe exact

1:24:06and I feel like in some ways the

1:24:08residence and I talked a little bit

1:24:09about this on the incomparable uh

1:24:11previously was the whole like just a

1:24:13Campbell sort of hero cycle right like

1:24:16there is enough that it's a her story is

1:24:18already an echo of Luke's mom that you

1:24:21don't have to be belabored by have

1:24:22making her necessarily related someone

1:24:24else yes there are clearly questions

1:24:26about her parentage I just mean that

1:24:30will get resolved i'm just also not

1:24:31clear how much it needs to be I felt

1:24:32like it did she didn't need that extra

1:24:34level of motivation she already seems

1:24:35pretty related fact that they didn't

1:24:38resolve and they left it open means that

1:24:41there are at least thinking about it and

1:24:43I mean the thing is that all all they're

1:24:45not because one of the things that

1:24:46struck me at the time was how

1:24:48effectively in this you know in very

1:24:51very short sort of amount of screen time

1:24:54they established oh she was abandoned by

1:24:56parents she's waiting for them to come

1:24:57back they're never gonna come back

1:24:58isn't that terrible and you know the

1:25:01actual amount screens on that takes up

1:25:02is a tiny tiny portion of the movie and

1:25:05yet it's done very effectively and you

1:25:08know is a sort of strong enough that

1:25:11when she has that conversation with Mars

1:25:14about anonymous says they're never

1:25:15coming roughly you've got to look to the

1:25:17future

1:25:18that's a really powerful moment and so I

1:25:20was thinking like wow they did a really

1:25:22good job there but then of course then I

1:25:24started thinking wait hang on a second

1:25:25one for parents are important though

1:25:27there was something i read that was

1:25:30talking about some of the books i don't

1:25:32know if it was the novelization or

1:25:33something that suggests that the

1:25:35scavenger boss guy might be sort of

1:25:41keeping an eye on her for somebody and

1:25:44the fact that he he kept the Millennium

1:25:46Falcon and he didn't allow it to be

1:25:47scrapped and that there was of those

1:25:50some specific language about this so

1:25:52people will think I'm speculating that

1:25:54you know maybe he was the you know she

1:25:57was entrusted in something right to hear

1:26:00maybe if I actually feel really bad

1:26:03about all the transmedia stuff because

1:26:05loads of my friends in the industry are

1:26:08like doing that stuff working on you

1:26:10know I've got Karen Gillan's doing the

1:26:12Vedic comics Greg rockers doing novels

1:26:14Jason area is doing some

1:26:17like prequel comic so I think and you

1:26:20know I I just feel really bad because

1:26:21the hot like i said i avoided all

1:26:23spoilers so I did not read i have not

1:26:25read any of that stuff and I normally

1:26:27I'd normally try to read everything

1:26:28written by a lot of your that no sorry

1:26:32sorry not getting that no because I

1:26:34didn't want anything that could even

1:26:36risk even a hint of a spoiler

1:26:39so you might be right about that

1:26:42especially the trader but i have no idea

1:26:44i would totally strangle a gun to be

1:26:46able to work on one of the two or three

1:26:48Gungan there was something that the

1:26:50other thing was that the that character

1:26:52the incar plots or however it's

1:26:54pronounced apparently there were more

1:26:56scenes that were shot with him and there

1:26:58was one where to rip his arms off and

1:27:03clearly did he beat him a hollow chest

1:27:05and somebody must have said hmmm do we

1:27:08want actual dismember with wiki's or do

1:27:11we want to keep her nice pg-13 let the

1:27:14kids and certificate yes also damaged in

1:27:17revenge of the sith tonight so i don't

1:27:19have to change their mind or if there

1:27:20was more to that character that just

1:27:21didn't end up on the screen or maybe

1:27:23i'll end up enough to any subsequent one

1:27:25going back tonight and he'll have a red

1:27:27arms well that's a joke that's going to

1:27:33keep on giving that is no and I thought

1:27:37Finn was dead at the end because like

1:27:40they don't do really much of anything to

1:27:44convince you that he's not

1:27:46I up i only noticed again at the same

1:27:49time watching that he is breathing

1:27:52ever-so-slightly in that final shot way

1:27:54she kisses him on the foreign says i'll

1:27:55also you again make sure he was a dead

1:27:58body that they have covered him up or

1:28:00something you don't usually all the

1:28:01anger would have been a little lower

1:28:04yeah there would have been a little more

1:28:05I feel like fanfare over a yes to me I

1:28:09thought you liked it

1:28:10yeah it was a bit like hand frozen in

1:28:12carbonite you know he's yeah he's out

1:28:14for the camp and he'll be back next time

1:28:16I won't miss any tank and SS throw

1:28:20everything in waving right but if

1:28:22they've shown me back to tank then

1:28:23you're sure you know phone off his being

1:28:25healed but there was nobody attending to

1:28:27him then

1:28:27no medics anyway saying get out of the

1:28:30way we can fix and we have the

1:28:31technology it was probably a medical

1:28:33coma so that his body could recover from

1:28:35its grave his winnings and snow frost

1:28:37you might be right but would have killed

1:28:39them to have two words you know same was

1:28:43a little briefly ok they do say when

1:28:45they take him off the ship at the very

1:28:47end one of them and like Ray is talking

1:28:49to lay I think or something they say

1:28:50he's got a heartbeat someone in the

1:28:52background I really know what you guys

1:28:53had noticed that so I knew it was alive

1:28:56alright but i was thinking like maybe

1:28:58like his body is we've repaired his body

1:29:00but his mind is not functioning or

1:29:02something maybe have amnesia an

1:29:04excellent all the other way around you

1:29:05know

1:29:06yeah well I i look forward to seeing i

1:29:08really like thin as a character

1:29:10yeah I think he's he's an intriguing

1:29:12character because he is a he has

1:29:14elements of like he wants to do the

1:29:16right thing but he's also kind of a

1:29:18coward but he does really like you know

1:29:21I think the fact that he does do he does

1:29:24go through and try to do the right thing

1:29:26despite the fact that he's clearly

1:29:27really terrified

1:29:29it's just such a great character like it

1:29:32was a coward he was just really unsure

1:29:34of himself think we and what he trusted

1:29:37run i'm in the keys so he said that was

1:29:40his first bar fight there I mean he's

1:29:42never seen apostle before

1:29:43yeah it sounded like you have PTSD and

1:29:45you just want you exactly like yeah yeah

1:29:48yeah the only thing you express it sort

1:29:49of is that he's like you can't beat the

1:29:51first-order like I don't want anything

1:29:52to do with them i want to be out of here

1:29:54but he manages to get over that in

1:29:57because raised in trouble he's like you

1:29:58know I'm gonna I'm gonna go on this

1:30:00mission and he picks up the lightsaber

1:30:02to fight kylo Ren when you know like

1:30:04even though he probably has an idea that

1:30:07he's not really going to want to go so

1:30:09help

1:30:10yeah exactly but that like and that's

1:30:11that's heroism right like yeah it is the

1:30:13doing that when I don't think is a

1:30:14calendar right it's not he's got the I

1:30:17think maybe the the PTSD assessment is

1:30:19closer than not exactly cowardice but

1:30:21sort of a you know he's he's got fear

1:30:23right like he's conquering your fear and

1:30:25that is also a great beat because it is

1:30:28such a bit of the even if he is not a

1:30:30force-user that is such an element of

1:30:32the Jedi Code that there's almost

1:30:33something to being a Jedi without the

1:30:35force powers right like you know it's

1:30:36like the super it's like when you have

1:30:38superheroes who don't have powers and

1:30:39they're like you know I'm gonna do this

1:30:40anyways

1:30:41is the right thing to do you know I

1:30:42don't necessarily stand a chance

1:30:44I'm but I loved that he wasn't

1:30:46immediately self-assured and yeah just

1:30:48yeah you could see him getting to grips

1:30:50with bits and getting overexcited he

1:30:52when he's getting up in asthma face

1:30:54I'm in control now but he died down i'm

1:30:57only with the resistance but I love his

1:30:59reaction when he realized in that when

1:31:01he's in the back of the TIE fighter with

1:31:02Pope and he realizes that he's going to

1:31:04soften waiting he just thinks that he's

1:31:06rescuing a pilot and then posed like oh

1:31:08yeah the the droid down on the planet

1:31:10he's got like the map to Luke Skywalker

1:31:12because are you kidding me yeah i think

1:31:17is amazing and there are so many good

1:31:19jokes I really relate the that sire I

1:31:22really just really like the scene where

1:31:24he's basically negotiating with BBA not

1:31:27to sell em yeah yeah I know it's

1:31:30wonderful because he's only one talking

1:31:32and yet we know exactly what may be

1:31:33saying it's beautiful

1:31:34my favorite one is is that when he is

1:31:36like I just everyone wanna go back to

1:31:38jakku I don't want to go back to jail

1:31:40yeah well they really hit a gold mine in

1:31:42terms of I think the casting on all

1:31:44three of those major carrier yes yeah

1:31:46we're just were just perfect and you

1:31:48know it'sit's really i think to the

1:31:50strengths of JJ Abrams and his team that

1:31:52they are they are really good at casting

1:31:54if any if you want to take one thing

1:31:55away from this the star trek reboots

1:31:57they are really good at casting and

1:32:00actually a very good point yeah i think

1:32:03that they I think they chose really well

1:32:05with both Daisy Ridley who is a was a

1:32:07huge find right like she is she's been

1:32:09basically nothing before this and she

1:32:11just sort of G totally owns that John

1:32:14boyega is fantastic i really love him

1:32:17Oscar Isaac who is already sort of the

1:32:18he's the Harrison Ford that he's already

1:32:20like never even heard of before

1:32:22yeah I you I knew him he had been around

1:32:24to the coen brothers movie a couple

1:32:25years ago he had his star was definitely

1:32:27on the way out myself x macking out with

1:32:30right hands in the Andes in the next

1:32:32x-men movie too with a Domhnall Gleeson

1:32:34who gives you a general Hux and so I

1:32:37feel like he's the he's the Harrison

1:32:38Ford of this trilogy where it's like

1:32:40he's the most well-known the most

1:32:41well-established maybe not a huge star

1:32:42yet but like clearly on the way up

1:32:44whereas the other two are much less

1:32:46known the John Vega does have a couple

1:32:49features under his belt but they're just

1:32:51all three of them have tremendous

1:32:52chemistry

1:32:53they're all charming

1:32:54they're all charismatic they all do

1:32:57great jobs with their various characters

1:32:59and I just I'm so excited like I feel

1:33:01that's if nothing else

1:33:03Star Wars rest so heavily on its

1:33:04characters that I feel like the idea of

1:33:06what you took out like a like if you had

1:33:08action figures these guys and you were

1:33:09like you're a kid you're playing with

1:33:11action figures they all have such

1:33:12defined pair of personalities in a way

1:33:14that so many action movies I feel like

1:33:16well I'm just you know I'm archetype

1:33:18template number one I marketer and

1:33:19promoter can just go sighs yeah let's go

1:33:22on an adventure and it's like in this

1:33:23case know these guys have defined

1:33:25personalities into find traits that like

1:33:26if you were like sit down and like

1:33:28making up stories about them

1:33:30yeah in some ways it does start to write

1:33:32itself because they have these

1:33:33characters already you know defined for

1:33:35them so I just I just that was the

1:33:39biggest probably the prequels for known

1:33:40for the lack of characters i don't like

1:33:43a parent there's no one is a character

1:33:44in those movies and so that is so

1:33:46girlfriend lots of characters gotta put

1:33:48not a single personality between them

1:33:50and ya know it it's terrifying but can

1:33:55play in just occurred to me they're all

1:33:57going to be trying to do the kylo Ren

1:33:58voice you know like we all did that

1:34:01moron and 144 Vader in the playground

1:34:05they're all going to be trying to kylo

1:34:06Ren how do unless you've got a

1:34:07distortion pedal to hand how are you

1:34:09going to do that because it's massively

1:34:11over driven and a single total

1:34:13distortion I thought it was very easy to

1:34:16understand as well like other like Bane

1:34:18from Batman yeah but it was it was a

1:34:21similar kind of effect but it was just

1:34:23done so much better wear but it is kind

1:34:26of if you go back and listen to like

1:34:28early nineties industrial music an

1:34:29administrator knowledge now stuff that's

1:34:31what that is

1:34:32thats singing through a distortion pedal

1:34:34and this was clearly a filtered through

1:34:37the same kind of distortion and

1:34:39overdrive effects that you get with

1:34:40those pedals so how kids are going to

1:34:43try and emulate that I don't even want

1:34:44to get in trouble

1:34:46that's probably an iphone app for

1:34:47already hahaha other probably the star

1:34:51wars and I Apple have that eventually

1:34:53since they've got everything else in

1:34:54there

1:34:55yeah but I wasn't i went into this and I

1:34:57was really worried that wasn't going to

1:34:58like the new characters and I yeah it's

1:35:01down to the casting of the reasons i

1:35:03should have been more trusting because

1:35:05whatever other problems I have with the

1:35:06with the star trek maybe

1:35:08the one thing I'm was can argue with is

1:35:10that I'm really impressed by all

1:35:11accounts even the ones i don't quite

1:35:12like they're still decent enough and

1:35:14that's amazing considering there's like

1:35:16eight or nine of them but they have to

1:35:18recap so yeah absolutely we haven't

1:35:21mentioned Leah it's all very much

1:35:24right no that was glad I was pretty

1:35:26excited when I heard of this was the guy

1:35:29I picked up a handful of very very minor

1:35:30spoilers before we went in and one of

1:35:32the things was then used that she was

1:35:33going to be generally because i watch

1:35:35that interview with her or that was with

1:35:37the doggie and on that American with a

1:35:39thing

1:35:39the amazing interview yeah and I was

1:35:42just so exciting that she gets to be a

1:35:46general and do the way to find her

1:35:49character there with the relationship

1:35:50between hardhat and we instantly knew

1:35:53exactly what happened to it

1:35:54despite it being 35 years and picture of

1:35:57it was built up just like the picture of

1:36:00me in her past so quickly in just a few

1:36:03lines and yet it feels that all in and

1:36:05you can use a intentionally feeling with

1:36:07novels or something at some point but I

1:36:09leaving its imaginations they do it very

1:36:12well and having her returning simply

1:36:15return to what she does best and this is

1:36:17what she find satisfaction in her life

1:36:19calling is resistance lighting project

1:36:22oh that's brilliant gorilla

1:36:25yeah it was kind of great because i was

1:36:27thinking about that today actually and

1:36:28thinking how in all the Expanded

1:36:30Universe stuff that came before she's

1:36:32always positioned as much more of a

1:36:35diplomat a politician you know a leader

1:36:38but someone who is much more on the

1:36:39civilian side of things and it's so it's

1:36:43such a it's such a left turn from that

1:36:45and yet such a delightful welcome left

1:36:47turn and one that makes perfect sense

1:36:49given you know throwing all that out and

1:36:52going from what we have is canon I mean

1:36:54if you look at her roles in again having

1:36:56just watching the Jedi look at a role in

1:36:58that you know clearly this makes a lot

1:37:00of sense this is of course where her

1:37:01career would go right like she hasn't

1:37:03admitted she's developed a military

1:37:05background she spent all that time as a

1:37:07resistance fighter in the thick of

1:37:09things and she is clearly like a

1:37:11strategist and even as as she's gotten

1:37:13older she's probably gotten even more

1:37:14experience with that and so it is such a

1:37:17great such a great decision that

1:37:21I found like you just not where i was

1:37:24expecting things to go and yet something

1:37:26that made perfect sense to me that i

1:37:28just i really i really love that I think

1:37:30it's a great move

1:37:32yeah I know you're almost you might have

1:37:34been expecting her to be back leading

1:37:36the Senate or something you know back in

1:37:37the surrounding white robes and yeah

1:37:39becoming a senior diplomat or leader of

1:37:42the New Republic people were saying like

1:37:44oh she's now she's mom mom like she's

1:37:46not mon mothma she's like the gym she's

1:37:48like the general from New Hope she's

1:37:49like general Dodonna from the new hope

1:37:51you like she's in charge of this whole

1:37:52thing she's not just like sort of the

1:37:54political figure head to give them

1:37:56legitimacy she is actually on the ground

1:37:59doing you know doing stuff

1:38:00well that's good because we didn't

1:38:02really need lots of political scenes

1:38:04know quite enough of the words i do have

1:38:071i already established this but i do I

1:38:10am frustrated with the treatment of the

1:38:12republic vs the resistance in this yet

1:38:15i'm here at all it's not done well and

1:38:17it's it's frustrating because I thought

1:38:19as I saw someone remarking today online

1:38:21one of the frustrations is we've spent

1:38:23all this time striving for the ideals of

1:38:25the Republican the original trilogy and

1:38:27now we get it back and it's inherently

1:38:28dispatched in about you know half an

1:38:30hour please I completely ineffective

1:38:31yeah right and so it's chorus because

1:38:34they blow up something they did not say

1:38:36the horse something in the hosnian

1:38:38system which I believe course and is not

1:38:40again I'm not massively knowledgeable

1:38:43about that sort of stuff but from what i

1:38:44know it isn't in and you know maybe it

1:38:46is but just because i am so interested

1:38:48to know what has happened in these

1:38:50intervening years

1:38:51how did the Empire the fragment of the

1:38:53Empire you know get dispatched to maybe

1:38:56that's what the anthology movies will

1:38:58cover i will be interested to see if

1:39:00they go back and backfill some of us

1:39:02because there's very little about it and

1:39:03you're basically saying you want prequel

1:39:05you're right about four different from

1:39:08here a lot of people to the sequel's is

1:39:10what I want

1:39:11is there a word for that yeah and and

1:39:13there is I i really like you know sci-fi

1:39:16politics intriguing begins like stuff

1:39:19like a watching the expanse now read all

1:39:20the books on that and I think there is a

1:39:22there is a cool interesting Star Wars

1:39:24story to be told that and stuff that I

1:39:25think was done well in some of the

1:39:27Expanded Universe stuff before but

1:39:29nothing too cool story doesn't need to

1:39:31be done here you know it doesn't fit in

1:39:33a two-hour movie necessarily but it does

1:39:35feel kind of it was the one thing that I

1:39:37felt sloppy because it didn't really

1:39:39make sense why is the Republic backing

1:39:41and gorillas arm

1:39:42why do things they have control yes but

1:39:45you're secretly that everybody knows and

1:39:47so we're gonna blow up the Republic

1:39:48anyway is we can have like a 20-pot

1:39:51house of cards styles that extols the

1:39:54political wouldn't put it past them and

1:39:57raise me up i'm on board smoke the

1:40:01supreme leader speaking of the first

1:40:02order to the public at large let's get

1:40:04today over so that they're all been snow

1:40:07our mutual friend my sister Lian has a

1:40:11theory that he might be a not dead

1:40:14Darth Plagueis I I don't think it's

1:40:16unrealistic plague plague it places the

1:40:19one who he was

1:40:21Papa teens mentor is the relation

1:40:25between tells Anakin Skywalker the story

1:40:27of Darth Plagueis because he conquered

1:40:29death he was so powerful in the force

1:40:31that he learned how to conquer death

1:40:32before his apprentice ye killing I had

1:40:36to kill one of those mean old republic

1:40:37that you do is choose them but i think

1:40:42that's I mean who knows whether that's

1:40:44actually you know correct but I think

1:40:45that's an interesting theory that would

1:40:47be a way of units directly connecting it

1:40:50back to the prequels but not in a way

1:40:52that kind of things like you circle

1:40:56around the prequels and bring them all

1:40:57together off your actually touching

1:40:59right he's never seen in the prequels

1:41:01just talked about that was the thing i

1:41:03dislike most about the prequels was that

1:41:05everything happened to be connected to

1:41:07everything else yeah and you know it

1:41:09doesn't I don't feel it has to be you

1:41:11know a character we've seen before

1:41:13no but if he's not then suddenly we

1:41:15heard mega-powerful safety just came out

1:41:17of nowhere in the last 30 years you know

1:41:19and looks a thousand years old if here

1:41:22sit though I mean that the other

1:41:23question I'll

1:41:24only height yeah i mean he might be but

1:41:25like there are ya i did like

1:41:27particularly masses line where she talks

1:41:28about how evil keeps arriving and always

1:41:30has a different name thus if the Empire

1:41:32of the first order etc so you know again

1:41:35sort of corresponding to that same

1:41:37theory about nope doesn't actually use

1:41:39the word say that any point that thing

1:41:40know right exactly and even in the

1:41:43original trilogy city is is you know

1:41:45will define right we know Darth Vader is

1:41:47a Dark Lord of the Sith but nothing is

1:41:48made no mention is made of the Emperor

1:41:51being a Sith Lord the old republic it's

1:41:54much better defined it got a little

1:41:56quick sentries you can call it old if

1:41:59not older they're everywhere

1:42:02I hate everybody being called Darth too

1:42:04if only because it reminds me of that

1:42:05one line in New Hope where where obi-wan

1:42:08Kenobi calls fader Dark Daughters like

1:42:10gonna make it

1:42:12you can't win Lorde yeah it's not super

1:42:15yeah that's so bizarre I mean that the

1:42:17the smoke could be something like some

1:42:20other teenage kid with some protection

1:42:22yeah it's true that would be your

1:42:25bedroom with this is not really the

1:42:26image that you project if you could just

1:42:30ride on a different one everyone here is

1:42:32sort of aging column with bits missing

1:42:34from his face and it was very strange

1:42:36yeah I know what's going on there um I

1:42:39don't drive as floppy hair love it

1:42:42I thought I loved it as well have some

1:42:43people complaining about that as well so

1:42:45that your hair therapy is here was too

1:42:47sloppy but it makes him look we're too

1:42:48long and it makes me look like an emo

1:42:50kid and all that but one of the things I

1:42:52liked about it was because it frames his

1:42:53face perfectly so even when he takes off

1:42:56the helmet he still looks like he's

1:42:59wearing a helmet or me

1:43:01looks like he's always wearing a hood

1:43:03you know because he faces just in the

1:43:05middle of this sea of black I have no

1:43:08objections to his here it looks fine but

1:43:10it was it was nice here and i did i did

1:43:14like i did like the be taking off the

1:43:16helmet and it's just you know it's a

1:43:18just more looking your head under there

1:43:20yeah and it's not you know that that was

1:43:23nice i did get a nice car right but he

1:43:26didn't have it to start with yeah he

1:43:28totally would be all he must be so happy

1:43:31about that

1:43:31you know I your mother look what I got

1:43:35today is probably going in going like

1:43:38I've been injured quick give me a

1:43:39cybernetic shoulders it's just a scratch

1:43:41known replace if you take my hand off so

1:43:44I can get a new hand will cut his own

1:43:47yeah you don't understand do it cut his

1:43:51hand off and say it came off in the

1:43:52bathroom method is a method so although

1:43:56it looks showed I think looks robotic

1:43:59and great at the end there that was yeah

1:44:02yeah but they're that was that was a

1:44:04nice decision at the flashback are no

1:44:07there's a point right okay so raise sort

1:44:10of you know force vision when she

1:44:12touches the lightsaber we get her in a

1:44:16starship that's collapsing you know what

1:44:18could be anything obviate mean it looks

1:44:20sort of you know first-order Imperial

1:44:22issue but it could be anything

1:44:23and then she sees Luke presumably giving

1:44:28the plans to r2 and telling our to you

1:44:31know go and sleep until the right time

1:44:33or whatever you know with his robotic

1:44:35hand on him and then you get the Knights

1:44:38of Ren thing and its really that's the

1:44:41one part where you like is this a vision

1:44:44of the future or is it a flashback

1:44:46because it's really hard to tell which

1:44:49that is you know I assumed with the

1:44:51Knights of Ren that that was basically

1:44:53his classmates from well that's when I

1:44:55thought I academy but I've seen people

1:44:57since saying no the the it's a it's a

1:44:59vision of the future like and she will

1:45:01you know of her fighting the Knights of

1:45:02running the future may still be as

1:45:04classmates

1:45:06well yeah yeah so yeah actually yeah you

1:45:09know is there a consensus on this

1:45:10because I'm really confused that I I

1:45:12don't know enough about what people have

1:45:14been saying about it but I've definitely

1:45:15i also thought it was maybe his fellow

1:45:18classmates being trained by Luke

1:45:20although at that point you wonder a how

1:45:22many trainees were there and be how many

1:45:25of them went dad right ROM and so and

1:45:29here is saying stop wearing the mask is

1:45:32out and I'm well and that whole set that

1:45:36scene does start with rain killing

1:45:38somebody with his

1:45:40you know cross lightsaber but it's

1:45:42impossible to tell who it is

1:45:44yeah have all the scenes that I want to

1:45:46see a second time the the flashback is

1:45:48the biggest one because it's so unclear

1:45:50right and i did and i was wrong really

1:45:52watching you know didn't blink watching

1:45:54really carefully and it's just way too

1:45:55fast to actually tell who he kills on

1:45:57what's going on there was something in

1:45:59the press today that was talking about

1:46:00how you and mcgregor had recorded you

1:46:02know log for that scene overlaid I think

1:46:05with Alec Guinness oh yeah it's all that

1:46:07yeah they use Alec Guinness is they use

1:46:09him saying afraid to say ray they make

1:46:12that syllable out of it and then they

1:46:14over way with that with you and mcgregor

1:46:16a saying something about you taking your

1:46:18first steps or something like that so I

1:46:20mean technically you could still yeah

1:46:21you even greater still allowing around

1:46:23what if you brought him back as a force

1:46:25right well that was my question is where

1:46:28all the force ghost because why does

1:46:30nobody show up and say you know or by a

1:46:33then she was a party

1:46:35yeah that's right that you just get a

1:46:38bunch of he walks back to endure

1:46:39everybody that right so okay let's start

1:46:43to wrap this up the one thing about this

1:46:45movie that felt a little bit flat to me

1:46:47I perhaps ironically was the attack by

1:46:50the x-wings on Starkiller base

1:46:52I loved all the x-wing sequences loved

1:46:55all the starship sequences and even that

1:46:57was the sequences themselves

1:46:58individually were great including the

1:47:00don't call it a trench run but but the

1:47:04actual destruction of the base at the

1:47:06end fell really flat for me and I think

1:47:08a lot of that was actually down to the

1:47:09score which didn't sort of feel

1:47:12triumphant and the editing because you

1:47:15have the attack on the base and okay

1:47:18it's starting to go badly you know we

1:47:20need to make lots and lots of bowling

1:47:21passes and we're getting shot to pieces

1:47:22when they cut away to everything else

1:47:25that's going on for so long that by the

1:47:29time we return to it you kind of you

1:47:31know not forgotten about it but it's

1:47:33just and then it's over really quickly

1:47:34and it's just it's the one part of it

1:47:37that I felt was a bit kind of cursory

1:47:40yeah it doesn't have that moment like in

1:47:42Star Wars where you've got look making

1:47:45the run and and then at hands the

1:47:47Millennium Falcon flies and last moment

1:47:49and that's the woman with the audience

1:47:51you're like hell

1:47:52yah-yah-yah and we all feel really good

1:47:54and excited and happy and go home

1:47:56delighted I mean like the rest but

1:47:58that's the really moment but it gives

1:48:00you the emotional punch and I felt there

1:48:02was a sort of as a like a miniature one

1:48:05with the x-wing turning up our or the

1:48:10other place on must guard this place

1:48:12that's the thing

1:48:13yes that one I'm very good at Star Wars

1:48:15names but the real thing here when the

1:48:17x-wings playing you're thinking yeah and

1:48:19I think excellent that was really good

1:48:21those are also have I wonder what the

1:48:22finale is going to be because that one

1:48:24felt pretty great and yeah I was kind of

1:48:27waiting for that hell yeah brilliant

1:48:28let's shipping and no go home moment but

1:48:31it never quite came and so of course

1:48:34this is terrible the virus like but and

1:48:37this would be so because of that didn't

1:48:40happen there was quite a lot through

1:48:42hand Solars day through when it was

1:48:44clear what was going to happen through

1:48:46the whole getting stabbed by the

1:48:48lightsaber thing and then the whole

1:48:50falling off the bridge and a bit i have

1:48:52a kid thinking he could come back from

1:48:55that

1:48:55do we need to bring the advice of that

1:48:59ok missed all the vital wins and then

1:49:02there was an heir to the pot and sure

1:49:03and then they put Michelle got made

1:49:05before the thing blew up a lot of value

1:49:09in the day of a major beloved character

1:49:12is like the whole falling bridge thing

1:49:15yeah yeah i think we buy this hide

1:49:19accepted you probably were actually

1:49:23going to break the back then everything

1:49:24exploded and I was like oh ok and it is

1:49:28a sort of clicked back a little bit with

1:49:30with Ray's ascend to the end but it yeah

1:49:34I do feel its measured missing that

1:49:35fights well I don't think it's sort of

1:49:37detracted from the overall feeling of

1:49:40anticlimax and yet you know the end was

1:49:42very very powerful it was just like one

1:49:44is like someone forgot to put the final

1:49:48chocolate button at the top of the

1:49:51chocolate button cake the cake is

1:49:53delicious but it looks really really

1:49:55good we lost the key but you're just

1:49:57like is there something missing there

1:49:58just that

1:49:59yeah but why why was thinking was you

1:50:02know so population of original deaths

1:50:04that was I

1:50:05it's about 300,000 people and this thing

1:50:07was you know a planet a hundred times

1:50:10the size or somebody is like so let's

1:50:13say you know you got a hundred million

1:50:16or something on that

1:50:17how do you get people to apply for those

1:50:19kind of jobs

1:50:20given what happened to the previous two

1:50:22dead stars time to highlight you let him

1:50:25know what happened either like Luke

1:50:26Skywalker disappeared and saloon just

1:50:28look at my eyes roll well you know it's

1:50:30not good i met how many deathstars can

1:50:33actually bonus ok it's to support but

1:50:35this is this is

1:50:37yeah how apologize but there's a single

1:50:39rhymed battle station in the rest of all

1:50:43the best films it's just as unlikely

1:50:45after three people are gonna start to

1:50:48think at times are hard and taxes are

1:50:50high you know somewhere there is a good

1:50:52there's a good article might have been

1:50:53on slate which is the sum someone wrote

1:50:55the memos between general Hux and the

1:50:57designer of Starkiller base like it's

1:51:00coming over like the mine usually also

1:51:02could you really just like I feel like

1:51:04that that's a very accessible easy place

1:51:07to shoot things could be going to cover

1:51:08that up or something in an expert our

1:51:10you run over cost this is getting out of

1:51:12control it's it's a very funny article i

1:51:14would like to know how you managed to

1:51:16get the money for it though after it

1:51:19gives is it is exponentially bigger then

1:51:22the North it is removably it was a

1:51:24planet

1:51:25alright i'm bringing and then they just

1:51:26carved some bits out of it yeah but you

1:51:29can still get still fairly expensive

1:51:31that's a lot of Earth work well they've

1:51:33got like the little diggers with

1:51:34lightsabers on them and its really know

1:51:39about our honor to end on a positive

1:51:42note i will say people actually

1:51:45applauded at the end in the cinema where

1:51:49I was watching it now we're now in

1:51:50America that's not so uncommon in the UK

1:51:52that never happens is the first time

1:51:56I've ever been in a British cinema and

1:51:59people just spontaneously burst into

1:52:01applause at the end when they're you

1:52:03know that it added music came up at the

1:52:05end

1:52:06yeah i think there was there was there

1:52:08was certainly a smattering of light

1:52:09applause it wasn't i have been in

1:52:11American cinemas with that with the

1:52:13whole whooping butt

1:52:16it was it you know that do remember it

1:52:20was British applause but it was always

1:52:21nevertheless yes that we we had no

1:52:23applause

1:52:24although when the one time I happens in

1:52:26American so another was any closer

1:52:28either but it was because it doesn't

1:52:30have whatever it's so well so which yeah

1:52:32that was not a movie did it doesn't

1:52:34matter answers one question man

1:52:39alright alright we've been going for

1:52:41almost two hours and we are only the

1:52:44first of three podcast recording

1:52:45tonight's style as well so our right

1:52:50let's bring this to a close

1:52:51thank you very much for joining me on

1:52:54this lovely UK stroke East Coast stroke

1:52:56northern edition of The Force awakens

1:52:59discussion tomorrow and thank you very

1:53:02much thank you very much for having me

1:53:04Liz miles thank you for joining us from

1:53:05Scotland

1:53:06Thank You bearing and jamie thompson

1:53:08thank you for joining us also from

1:53:10Scotland i'm silently standing on top of

1:53:12the hill and I expect to be paid

1:53:13millions of dollars okay can you just

1:53:15stand there for about 60 seconds while

1:53:17we get the chopper into position

1:53:19don't move it will be really awkward and

1:53:21you look really uncomfortable for like

1:53:23an hour

1:53:24ya gotta fly it around mad so

1:53:27uncomfortable a pleasure and thank you

1:53:31everybody out there for listening

1:53:33happy holidays and of course may the

1:53:35force be with you

1:53:46[Music]