0:00:00I'd like to start the show by thanking all of the cortex and the many, many book recommendations
0:00:07that came flooding in after I requested them on the last show. I was upset. Why were you upset?
0:00:16Because I was getting emails. Oh, you were getting emails? Yeah. For me? For you. But they could just
0:00:23put it in the Reddit. I know. Which is why like I'm sorry to other people, but I archive every
0:00:28single one of them and Grey doesn't get the recommendations. I get it if you don't use
0:00:32Reddit but like, you know, think about me. I have a contact form on my website like people
0:00:37could use it. Yeah, go to him. Don't come to me. I'm sorry Myke but it does make me laugh.
0:00:42I think in the end the final tally was 200 plus books added to the potential recommendation list
0:00:52and I also have to say when you ask for something on the internet
0:00:57you never know what you're going to get. And you also don't know how well people are going
0:01:02to follow instructions. And I was very pleased that like, very few business books slip through.
0:01:09It was mostly the kind of stuff that I was looking for interesting nonfiction,
0:01:13but not business books, nothing we would read for Cortex homework. So thank you very much to
0:01:19all the Cortex and don't message Myke in the future. But I would like to keep this open
0:01:25as a, just like a, hey, ever read a good book?
0:01:28Feel free to let Gray know on the Reddit, pass it along.
0:01:31- A good place for that is the Cortex subreddit.
0:01:34- Yeah, yeah.
0:01:35- That is a really good place, 'cause that's where,
0:01:37like a place where people can submit things
0:01:39that are kind of more long running in the canon of the show.
0:01:43Like people still submit their home screens
0:01:45every now and then, right?
0:01:46Like that is just like a good place
0:01:48to put this kind of stuff, because it is a group of people
0:01:51who in theory will be interested possibly in that thing,
0:01:54because they've chosen to join that community.
0:01:56So yeah, I didn't think about that, but that's a great idea.
0:01:59And you can also get a little a little discussion going there.
0:02:01And yeah, so keep them open.
0:02:03People are always looking for good and interesting books.
0:02:06And thank you for all of your suggestions.
0:02:08I really appreciate it.
0:02:10While we're dealing with thank yous, I would like to thank everybody
0:02:12who signed up to become a relay FM member to get our wonderful
0:02:15special episode danger town beat down danger town beat down.
0:02:19So fun to say every time.
0:02:22Yeah, I love it.
0:02:23Although I'd sometimes say danger beat downtown or something like it.
0:02:25They're like four little words that can get mixed up in my brain sometimes.
0:02:30Uh, but since the last episode, there is now a video trailer.
0:02:33So you may have heard our audio trailer last time.
0:02:36Uh, Grey put together a video trailer, probably not great.
0:02:39Definitely not great.
0:02:39Grey instructed the creation of a video trailer, but it is incredible.
0:02:44Every year they get better too.
0:02:47Um, and the video trailer this year is fantastic.
0:02:50You can see it at cortexspecial.com and you can also sign up to become a member there to get the
0:02:57special episode if you haven't already. So that's cortexspecial.com for that. Thank you to everybody
0:03:02that has done it. It is genuinely very enjoyable and yes thank you to everybody who signed up
0:03:08and supported Relay and got to listen to all of the great specials from all of the great shows.
0:03:14So I very recently came back from our five year celebrations in San Francisco,
0:03:20which was like a whole huge thing.
0:03:23So we did, I mean, I spoke about it on the show before, right?
0:03:26Like we did this big live show, which there is, we played Family Feud.
0:03:30It was like 20 relay FM hosts in total.
0:03:33Does everyone in the world know what Family Feud is?
0:03:35I feel like this is a very American thing.
0:03:37Family Feud in America, Family Fortunes in the UK.
0:03:41Oh, okay.
0:03:41So, so this would be known then?
0:03:43In the UK it would be, yeah.
0:03:45In the English speaking world.
0:03:46It is like a team based game where you are answering questions
0:03:52based upon a poll of other people.
0:03:54So like we polled the relay FM audience
0:03:57and got over 3000 responses to a selection of questions.
0:04:00And then your job as a player of the game
0:04:02is not to guess the right answer.
0:04:04It's to guess the most guessed answer
0:04:08by the people that were surveyed.
0:04:09It's an interesting way to play a game.
0:04:11And it becomes even more interesting when you know the exact type of person that will
0:04:17answer the questions, which are relay FM podcast listeners.
0:04:20So it's like excuse stuff a little bit.
0:04:22Yeah, it becomes very, I think, you think, I think.
0:04:26Like that's what this is.
0:04:27And that was definitely how the game went.
0:04:29But it was wonderful.
0:04:30There is audio and video of this event that's been published, in case you're
0:04:34wondering. I'll put links in the show notes.
0:04:35I think it's worth watching the video to see how good my suit was because I had a very
0:04:40nice suit on.
0:04:41Your suit was very nicely tailored, Myke.
0:04:44Thank you. Yeah, it was actually tailored.
0:04:46I got it. I really went big for this one.
0:04:48I was very happy with my Bart Blue suit.
0:04:50This whole thing, though,
0:04:52because I was away for a couple of weeks,
0:04:54and this is when me and Steven get together
0:04:56and we do kind of like our founder's time every year.
0:04:59We do this, like we get together and just like spend time together,
0:05:02talk about things that are on our mind with the company.
0:05:05It gives us a, I feel for me anyway,
0:05:07it gives me a nice kind of reset every year.
0:05:10And you know, we did it around the five year anniversary, which is nice. I got another tattoo. I got our five year logo tattoo.
0:05:18I did see that five year logo tattoo. I think it looks pretty good.
0:05:21Yeah, you saw it in the future.
0:05:23Wait a minute, what?
0:05:28I can't deal with this right now.
0:05:32No, wait, yes, I...
0:05:34Okay, now you're doing it again, Myke.
0:05:37If you just didn't say anything, it would have been fine.
0:05:39But this is the second show where we're sort of breaking each other's brains
0:05:42about what has happened in the actual timeline and what has happened
0:05:46in the recording timeline.
0:05:47Yeah, everyone's supposed to be confused right now.
0:05:50It will make sense at a later date, but I couldn't help myself at that moment
0:05:54because I had to like envision when it was and it...
0:05:57No, don't do this to me again, Myke.
0:05:58Yeah, because it's like, it would be fun.
0:06:00Just don't mention the time paradoxes.
0:06:01Okay.
0:06:02We could have gone right by that and how in the future I saw your tattoo which looks great
0:06:13above or below I guess from whichever perspective it is for the generic relay artwork tattoo
0:06:19as well.
0:06:20So that's your podcast arm?
0:06:21Is that the plan?
0:06:22It's my, I don't know what it is yeah, I think it might be just like my Important Things
0:06:26arm.
0:06:28Important Things arm.
0:06:29Yeah.
0:06:30What's the other arm then?
0:06:31I haven't made up my mind yet.
0:06:32- Okay.
0:06:33- 'Cause I've only got two tattoos so far.
0:06:35There'll be more.
0:06:37But this whole thing, like being away
0:06:38for a couple of weeks, doing this live show,
0:06:41it was a pretty big undertaking at a time
0:06:43where we're already pretty busy,
0:06:45which is like our membership season and stuff like that,
0:06:49as well as just trying to run the company in general.
0:06:53And it also being sandwiched in between
0:06:55our other two busy seasons, right, which is WWDC
0:06:58and kind of like September when new products start coming out.
0:07:03Now obviously for listeners, it makes sense that you launched Relay at this time of year,
0:07:11five years ago. But every time it's an anniversary, it always does feel like maybe you should have launched it at a different point in the year,
0:07:18so that it doesn't feel like everything happens over the summer.
0:07:23It's like, you have all of the summer travel, all of the conferences, which makes for you
0:07:29and for everyone involved in Relay, coordinating the schedules of recording podcasts much harder,
0:07:35which has all of this ripple effect on top of, oh, we're all also doing the members episode,
0:07:41and then on top of there's a time crunch because the Big Apple events are coming up.
0:07:46So it always does, like, I feel for you when, you know, you're going to Summit Relay and
0:07:52and you're discussing the future of the company,
0:07:53that it also comes in the middle of this very busy time
0:07:58for you.
0:07:59- But, whilst I agree with all of that,
0:08:01it has helped me feel good about my yearly themes this year.
0:08:06Because in my themes, I've been able to not have to
0:08:11really kill myself on the focus, right?
0:08:15So I was talking about stabilization and diversification
0:08:18and my two yearly themes, right?
0:08:20And one of the big parts of the year of stabilization
0:08:23was to not be overly concerned with growth
0:08:27in the company's financials,
0:08:28in my company's financials.
0:08:30And to just feel like at this point, which I did,
0:08:34that I've kind of got that, got a stable level
0:08:38and see what happens.
0:08:39And I've been happy with it, right?
0:08:40Where I've seen that the company is still meeting
0:08:44what we would want in growth.
0:08:47And during August, I can see that we did good,
0:08:51but if I would have put the focus in different areas,
0:08:54we could have done even better, but I'm happy with that
0:08:56because we had other things to focus on.
0:08:59And so we have another big project
0:09:01that I'm gonna talk about in a minute,
0:09:03but it's made me feel like, okay, I did the right thing
0:09:07because my hypothesis was correct,
0:09:10that even if we were able to look elsewhere,
0:09:12we would still grow and that's still happening.
0:09:15And it also allowed for me to feel like I could divert my attention to other areas.
0:09:21So I would say that as we are hurtling towards the end of 2019, that I've been really pleased
0:09:28with my theme so far this year because it's allowed me to spread my wings out in a few
0:09:33different areas and I'm feeling pretty good about where I am at this point based upon
0:09:38what I wanted to do this year.
0:09:40I'm really glad to hear that because particularly for the kind of thing that you're trying to do,
0:09:47the easy thing to do is to continually say like focus on growth, growth, growth.
0:09:52That's just what people expect when you have a business.
0:09:56This is great when you don't have investors.
0:09:58Yes, Relay is set up so that structurally you don't have that kind of pressure, which gives you the option in the first place.
0:10:07But it's very easy to still just to get into that mental mindset.
0:10:15I see that in people who don't have investors and just in their own personal lives.
0:10:19It's the same thing of like growth, growth, growth.
0:10:21Everything's got to be bigger and better than it was before.
0:10:24And it's a much harder thing to turn away from what seems like that's the sort of obvious
0:10:31path.
0:10:34to be like, I'm really glad to hear that months later, you feel good about that decision.
0:10:39That's like you because choosing what not to do can be the much harder thing sometimes
0:10:45than than choosing what to do. And I think company growth is is definitely one of those
0:10:53those areas that it's like, it's a difficult path to turn away from sometimes because that's
0:10:59what people's expectations are. So I'm really happy to hear that that's gone. That's gone
0:11:02well for you.
0:11:03Yeah, like in my life.
0:11:05What I care about is being comfortable
0:11:08and happy right like that
0:11:09and I want my work to facilitate that.
0:11:12I'm not happy if I'm really killing myself
0:11:17to keep going for like more
0:11:19and more and more and more.
0:11:21I'm not happy that way.
0:11:23Yeah, there's a reason
0:11:23we didn't call this podcast.
0:11:25Crush it.
0:11:26More text.
0:11:27More text.
0:11:29Perfect.
0:11:31Perfect. That's great, Myke. I can see the artwork now. But yes, that is exactly it.
0:11:37And it's one of the reasons you and I have often enjoyed talking about work and work-related things.
0:11:41That endless focus, it works for some people, but it doesn't work for everyone. And it's not
0:11:50always easy to know which kind of person you are, and that's a really important thing to figure out.
0:11:55I think I have been more of that person and then have become less of that person.
0:12:00as time's gone on.
0:12:03As I've kind of realized most of what's important to me
0:12:06and how to get what I want, right,
0:12:09like how to get the type of life that I want,
0:12:11I've realized that I don't need to be crushing it every day
0:12:15to be that kind of guy.
0:12:17So that's why I was really happy to have stumbled upon
0:12:20this idea of stabilization for this year
0:12:22and then to have achieved it.
0:12:25And like right now, I've got a lot going on
0:12:28and I need to be able to put some focus
0:12:30some other stuff and I want to be able to do that.
0:12:33So I was pleased that my yearly theme
0:12:36has allowed me for that because I've spent
0:12:38the last nine months preparing myself
0:12:41to just cool it in a few areas.
0:12:44Or something I have also been doing
0:12:47is handing some of this type of stuff off.
0:12:50I've been allowing other people to put the pressure on
0:12:53in areas that they want to where I don't need to
0:12:56at the moment.
0:12:57And that's been just a very good feeling.
0:13:01- I'm glad that that works out so well,
0:13:02but I also do feel a little bit like
0:13:04you're cheating here on the theme discussions, Myke,
0:13:08because you never want to talk about the themes
0:13:10as it gets closer and closer to the end of the year.
0:13:12- We can learn.
0:13:13I'm always happy to review the current year theme.
0:13:16- I don't understand your rules, Myke.
0:13:17- I don't want to talk about the next year theme,
0:13:19even though I already know what mine is.
0:13:22I got it, I got the name,
0:13:24and I'm building out some parameters now
0:13:27it's gonna be, but I started with the name and it's a good name.
0:13:30Ooh, good.
0:13:31It's one of those names that I don't need two themes to talk about everything I want to focus on.
0:13:36Uh, okay.
0:13:37Because it has a double meaning.
0:13:40So you have just, you have one word.
0:13:42So far.
0:13:44One word means two things.
0:13:46Interesting, okay, yeah. I still have two and I'm trying to collapse it down into one,
0:13:52but it's not quite working for collapsing down.
0:13:53That's when you've really made it, right?
0:13:56When you go like, "I have 16 things I want to do, one word."
0:14:00(laughing)
0:14:01- Yeah, so I'm envious of you right now with your one word.
0:14:05Teasing the people with what the Amazing Myke theme
0:14:08is going to be.
0:14:09- I spoke about we had another project,
0:14:11and so I want to talk about something
0:14:13that's really important to us,
0:14:14because Relay FM has long raised money for
0:14:18and has looked to St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital,
0:14:23which is a cancer research hospital for children,
0:14:25which is based in Memphis, Tennessee.
0:14:27We have long looked at them as an organization
0:14:30that we've wanted to support.
0:14:31And we are very honored to be St. Jude's
0:14:35first podcast fundraising partner.
0:14:37St. Jude do a lot of work with Twitch streamers,
0:14:40and they have something called St. Jude Play Live,
0:14:43which has been an incredible success for them,
0:14:45and they've been able to raise a ton of money for it.
0:14:47And we are really excited now to hopefully start them on a path of being able to raise
0:14:53a bunch of money through podcasting and other types of media as well.
0:14:57Childhood cancer remains the leading cause of death by disease for children under the
0:15:00age of 15.
0:15:01And children undergoing treatment for cancer and other life threatening diseases often
0:15:05need transfusions and physical and cognitive therapy and just so much more.
0:15:08And these organizations that provide this care to children that need it, it's, you know,
0:15:15got to think about from the people serving the lunches to the pharmacists,
0:15:19like just everyone in between. So we're trying to raise money through September,
0:15:23which is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. We're trying to raise money for
0:15:27St. Jude because they are one of the leaders in trying to help make this
0:15:31better for everybody. Like their research is shared with institutions all over the
0:15:35world and your gift can help St. Jude provide the best care and treatment for
0:15:39their patients. If you go to stjude.org/cortex, you can go right now and help save St. Jude
0:15:46Kids. That is stjude.org/cortex. And we're trying to do a bunch of stuff. And one thing
0:15:53that we're doing is on September 20th, I'm going back to Memphis.
0:15:58Did you just come from Memphis?
0:16:01Just came from Memphis just a couple of weeks ago. On September 20th and going back from
0:16:064 to 10 p.m. Eastern on September 20th I'm gonna be co-hosting a six-hour
0:16:15podcast-a-thon live on Twitch filmed and streamed from the St. Jude campus.
0:16:26Six hours? Yeah we're trying to raise $75,000 for St. Jude this year I want to
0:16:33raise more than that and so I want the help of the cortexins to help us do that
0:16:37and we're gonna be doing a bunch of wild stuff we're still putting together a
0:16:42bunch of pieces but we're gonna be calling in people and doing things and
0:16:46it's lots of meetings right now trying to work out exactly what we will fill
0:16:50six hours worth of content with but I'm sure there'll be a ton of humiliation
0:16:54for me I have no doubt about that yes yeah I think that's what you do with
0:16:58these types of things that is inevitable that's yeah that's what's going to
0:17:02happen. That's what the people want.
0:17:03Never done anything like this before.
0:17:05Six hour live stream on video.
0:17:08Oh, on video, are you going to be able to take bathroom breaks or just like six
0:17:13hours the whole time?
0:17:13It's like legit.
0:17:14We're going to have like videos that we can play.
0:17:17Like, you know, if you ever watch the telethon, they're like cut away for a
0:17:19minute and show you like a video as to what.
0:17:21Oh, okay.
0:17:22So you're going to have a button that you can press when you're like, oh,
0:17:25commercial, cut to commercial.
0:17:26We won't be pressing the buttons.
0:17:28We're going to have someone pressing the buttons for us.
0:17:30This is like a very professional operation we're going into here.
0:17:35Like it's like an actual studio and everything.
0:17:37There's going to be a green screen.
0:17:38Like we're talking like big, serious stuff.
0:17:41They don't mess around at St. Jude.
0:17:43That's awesome.
0:17:46How are you, how are you feeling about that?
0:17:48I'm not nervous about it.
0:17:49I'm actually more excited about it.
0:17:51And we've, the fundraising is going so well so far that I figure it's just
0:17:57going to be a night of celebration.
0:17:59To be honest, people have been so generous so far, and I feel like they're going to continue to be that generous
0:18:07in such a way that I'm just really excited to be able to celebrate what our listeners have been able to do.
0:18:16So I'm really excited about it, and I really hope that people will consider giving to this organization
0:18:23because it means a lot to me.
0:18:25Yeah, St. Jude is a charity close to Relay's heart and it is a good organization to give
0:18:32to.
0:18:33So if you want to help out, please do so and tune in on September 20th.
0:18:38What was the exact time?
0:18:404 to 10 Eastern PM, 4 to 10 PM Eastern.
0:18:43I'll put a link in the show notes to the Relay FM Twitch channel.
0:18:48That's where we're going to be streaming it.
0:18:50So you can tune in then as well if you want to.
0:18:53Today's show is brought to you by Eero. Eero is a game changer because it means actually
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0:20:33One last time Eero dot com slash cortex and the code cortex our thanks to Eero for their support of this show and all of relay FM
0:20:41have
0:20:4220
0:20:44Notebooks sitting next to me right now 20 notebooks our journals. I should say is that how many we ordered?
0:20:49Yeah, that was the order number. They all came to me instead.
0:20:53I think something got lost in translation there, Myke.
0:20:57Yep, these were the production samples. The production samples have been approved.
0:21:00Oh, these are your 20 quality check books?
0:21:04My quality check has been completed.
0:21:07I don't want to speak too soon, and again, breaking the time paradox.
0:21:12By the time this episode goes out, it is very likely that the second run is on sale.
0:21:18Maybe there's still some available, who knows, we'll find out.
0:21:22But the reason I wanted to talk about the Theme System Journal a little bit today is
0:21:25because I've been dealing with a project which has been very daunting to me over the last
0:21:28few weeks, which is building out thethemesystem.com, which is something I promised to people, right?
0:21:33Which is, you wanted instructions, I have the information in my brain, I need to try
0:21:39and put it down in a way that I can try and explain it to you.
0:21:43So I've been working on that and have been building that, but it has been really, really
0:21:47difficult for me and has become, had become one of those type of projects where it was
0:21:54just getting put off and put off and put off. Mostly for me because it was a writing project.
0:21:59I know you're not a big fan of the writing, Myke.
0:22:01Yeah, it was difficult. And also it was one of those things, it is one of those things
0:22:05where I like, I'm so close to this and it's so tied up with me at this point that I'm
0:22:12almost like a little bit nervous to put it out to the world because it's like, here's
0:22:19my brain. Will you accept it? So it's up there. I'm pretty happy with it, but I do consider
0:22:26it a living document, as it were, at the moment. It's one of those things where it's like,
0:22:32okay, this is like the basic level of information that I think people need to take advantage
0:22:37of this project. But I'm also kind of waiting for some feedback as well on the instructions
0:22:42and seeing what people think about it and how it works for them and how it doesn't.
0:22:46But I wanted to kind of touch on this idea because I ended up writing it because I was
0:22:53concerned I had 48 hours left before I had to have had it completed after having put
0:22:59it off for like three weeks.
0:23:01Yes, yeah.
0:23:02Well also in the time paradox that we're in a little bit, it is very possible that the
0:23:07journals are going up for sale literally as we are recording this episode. Also, systems
0:23:14are in place, so it may be happening at this very moment, but we're not 100% sure when
0:23:21that is, which is part of the uncertainty of manufacturing, shipping, and selling physical
0:23:27products.
0:23:28If you hear me make any kind of whimpering noise over the next 45 minutes, then you'll
0:23:35know that it happened. But other than that, maybe it will happen today or tomorrow. We'll
0:23:40find out.
0:23:41Wimmering noise. Is that because you're afraid that you're going to lose our bet about what's
0:23:47going to happen that we made in the past but will actually be heard in the future?
0:23:51Now you're doing it.
0:23:52Is that why you would whimper?
0:23:54My concern is not our bet, no.
0:23:57Don't worry, listeners, you'll hear about it later. But sorry, Myke. Look, if anyone's
0:24:04going to have sympathy about a writing project that you're having difficulty with.
0:24:07You are talking to the right man for that one.
0:24:09And, and, and like, this is also part of the difficulty of writing projects is when
0:24:15you have lived with it for so long, it's in your head and it is totally impossible
0:24:20to be objective about it.
0:24:22And this is also not a situation where I could really help you either because
0:24:28it's like, well, I've also been thinking about this for a really long time.
0:24:31and neither of us can be objective
0:24:35to even the most basic questions like,
0:24:37how clear are these instructions for someone
0:24:39who is unfamiliar with this whole project?
0:24:43Like that's why when you say it's a living document,
0:24:45it has to be because the ability for either of us
0:24:50to have any idea if this is clear is,
0:24:54it is not up to us, it's up to the reader
0:24:58and it's up to the sort of feedback that we get
0:25:00about what do people like or what do people not like.
0:25:03- Yep.
0:25:05- I think it's good, but I also know
0:25:07like it's very difficult to be objective
0:25:10about these sort of things.
0:25:11So I have a lot of sympathy for you, Myke.
0:25:13- Thank you.
0:25:14But I wonder when you are faced with these types of things,
0:25:18like a project that you want, that you need to complete,
0:25:22but I'm struggling to, do you have any hot tips and tricks
0:25:27of how you like get over that wall.
0:25:30Because for me, it is purely like,
0:25:33the deadline makes it worse until it is unavoidable.
0:25:37Like the stress of a looming deadline,
0:25:40for some reason makes me like procrastinate
0:25:42or work procrastinate more until it's like,
0:25:45all right, you literally have no more choices anymore.
0:25:49You may, this may need to be going out to the world
0:25:52any moment now, so you must do it.
0:25:55Again, are you asking me for tips about hitting deadlines,
0:25:58Myke, is that what you're coming to me?
0:26:00- Oh yeah, I realize, well, I've just asked now.
0:26:03- Oh, let me tell you about deadlines.
0:26:06No, I am totally the same way that you are.
0:26:11It's so important for a person to understand themselves.
0:26:13For many people, deadlines are the way they work,
0:26:17and they are positive things that get stuff done.
0:26:21But I'm just like you, where there's nothing
0:26:24makes me resent the whole universe more than a deadline and I'm not a procrastinator kind of
0:26:30person unless there is a deadline and then suddenly I become the sort of person that I hate
0:26:36who puts stuff off until the absolute last second and just like deadlines just they make me
0:26:43they make me feel withered inside and so I can't like I can't help you and the problem
0:26:50the problem that you were facing is, I think, worse than a deadline. Because you had,
0:26:56and still technically do have, an uncertain deadline that at some point plus or minus a
0:27:04couple of weeks, maybe a month in the future, a thing has to be done. And when it needs to be
0:27:10done, it needs to be done immediately. That is a deadline hiding in a cloud waiting to ambush you,
0:27:18who knows when, which I don't know what to do about that, but it sounds terrible.
0:27:24Well, I mean, I reacted to it and I feel like I've just done it, right? Like it's done,
0:27:31but it's now like the deadline may be forever at this point because it is a thing that will
0:27:36need to be continued to be updated. Right, yes, that's what living document means. This is never
0:27:42done. But also, I think living document is a phrase that you can use to let yourself be finished.
0:27:49That's how I felt. I was like, okay, I know that I'm going to have to change this,
0:27:54so let me get what I think is the basic level into this and then await that feedback. Because
0:28:00I want the feedback. I want people to tell me what they need, what they need more explanation on,
0:28:05that kind of stuff, if they think it can be presented differently. But what I wanted to
0:28:09was the basic level that I think somebody needs
0:28:13to be able to get this.
0:28:16And if it still is a struggle to people,
0:28:18then I've got a couple of things I can learn from that.
0:28:21One, how can I explain it better?
0:28:22And two, then maybe I need to understand
0:28:25how this isn't for everybody and to work at it from there.
0:28:28- Finding a way to let yourself let go,
0:28:33especially I think with an uncertain deadline,
0:28:35is a very helpful thing.
0:28:37I mean, my version of this is I have a little folder that I replicate every time I start a new script for a video.
0:28:43And built into this little template is a subfolder for the footnotes that will go along with the video.
0:28:53Now, sometimes I do release a video that will have a footnote or two, like a little mini video that's attached to it.
0:29:01is not remotely representative of the number of theoretical footnotes that I create during the
0:29:06process of actually working on something. And I am very aware that that is part of my letting go.
0:29:15Here's an interesting thing. I'll talk about it in a footnote. And let me put it in the footnote,
0:29:20this little folder, and maybe sometimes I'll run through a couple of drafts. But deep down,
0:29:26I know this is where ideas go to die. That this is where I can like temporarily put
0:29:31something that's interesting but just doesn't fit and tell myself, "Oh, I'll just do a little thing
0:29:38on that when the video comes out." And 95% of the time it doesn't go anywhere. And that's my
0:29:47version of like, "This video has to get done. You can't talk about everything." And just like,
0:29:53Just put it over there and pretend like you're gonna include it, but you won't.
0:29:57Well, unless... unless... the footnotes become the video.
0:30:03Yeah, and that does happen sometimes. Not very often, but every once in a while that does happen.
0:30:09Quite recently.
0:30:10Yeah. Although, like, before we do move on, I will just mention something on this topic of, like,
0:30:18of trying to get started, since so many people have recommended books to me. I'll pass back
0:30:22a book recommendation. Recommendation is maybe a bit firm of a word, but there is a book called
0:30:33The War of Art, which is a strange little book. You're selling this one, really selling this one.
0:30:40Recommendation is the strong of a word, this is a strange little book.
0:30:44Yeah, but like, so it's written by an author, and it is just a little book talking about this idea
0:30:57of it's hard to get started. And it's not even a book that you can just sit down and read through,
0:31:07It's more like a little collection of paragraphs where the author is
0:31:13attacking this idea from various angles.
0:31:15So that's why I say it's a strange book because it doesn't exactly have a through line
0:31:22in the way that many books do.
0:31:23It's more just like, "Hey, are you having a hard time getting started with work?
0:31:29Here's a bunch of thoughts on this thing."
0:31:35And I've read this book a couple of times and always have the same sort of experience that
0:31:41there's a lot in the book that just doesn't resonate with me at all.
0:31:46But every once in a while, something really catches me like, oh, that's an interesting way
0:31:50to phrase that or that's that's a good way to think about this. And having talked with a lot
0:31:55of people in creative fields, this is a book that everybody agrees like you should take a look at
0:32:01if you're doing any kind of creative work at all. And it's not that you're going to love everything
0:32:06in it. But you don't have to there may just be a couple of paragraphs that really work with you and
0:32:14stick in your own brain. So that's why I say like, it's it's a strange recommendation, because I
0:32:20don't expect a person to take all of it away. I just expect that you might you might find a
0:32:26a couple of things that work in there for you. So that is a book I've read that maybe
0:32:31you should too if you work on creative stuff and it's The War of Art by Steven Pressfield
0:32:37if I remember correctly. So check that out, listeners. I don't know if there's an audiobook
0:32:41for you, Myke. I know you don't read. Actually, I just realized that book would be totally
0:32:49intolerable in audio form. I think the lack of a thread line through it I think would
0:32:52drive a person crazy in audiobook format. So I'm going to say maybe don't listen to
0:32:56that one Myke.
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0:34:46Okay, so, listeners, Myke was teasing me a little bit before, because before the episode started,
0:34:53I showed Myke something that I was working on, and, you know, we're talking about
0:35:01new and difficult projects, and I've been away for a year. I've been working on difficult projects,
0:35:10and this one is now very, very soon to be released.
0:35:15It should be out shortly after this episode is out.
0:35:19And I showed Myke the current not completely finalized
0:35:22state of a video that I'm working on.
0:35:25- It was not final, it was very far from finalized.
0:35:29I was watched, it's like an 11 minute video or something.
0:35:33About six minutes of the video is just a screen
0:35:35that says, "Needs animation!"
0:35:37(laughing)
0:35:38It's always fascinating to me to see these work in progress.
0:35:42Like I get, I've seen various levels of work in progress
0:35:45for your stuff and this is probably the most in progress
0:35:48that the work I have seen has been.
0:35:50- But by far, like I thought you might find it
0:35:53somewhat interesting hopefully on a meta level of seeing.
0:35:55- Yeah, you really did.
0:35:56- What does it look like as a thing is coming together?
0:36:00But Myke saw what I would describe as the first
0:36:05barely watchable work in progress for the video. About half of it has no visualizations
0:36:12at all, it just has words on the screen about what I need to do to get something on the
0:36:17screen there.
0:36:18And the funny thing is that the audio is like, about 90% of it is leveled horrifically, which
0:36:25is also kind of hilarious. I hope you know that, I'm sure you do.
0:36:28Oh yeah, yeah, no, there's none of the audio fine tuning has happened, there's nothing.
0:36:34It's all terrible. But even though I know showing it to someone else, this is like,
0:36:40"Oh, this is in a total garbage state," this is the first time I can look at it. And even though
0:36:45it is in this horrific state, I feel like, "Oh, my confidence is very high about this getting finished
0:36:51and released soon," just because I've been through this process long enough and kind of know how
0:36:55these things work. But all of this is is to is to lead up to this video started life as a footnote
0:37:02to my video about who owns the Statue of Liberty, which came out almost exactly a year ago now.
0:37:13And yeah, so this is a video about like a little little historical thing that I came across
0:37:21that I originally thought would be a little footnote, and it sort of expanded a bit,
0:37:26and I thought, "Oh, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it after that Federal Land video."
0:37:32And then here we are a year later, and it's finally going to actually be made.
0:37:39But I am, here's the thing, I'm very close to this project, and it's, I feel like it's very different
0:37:47for a few reasons so we haven't actually spoken about it and I'm a little bit curious to get some
0:37:52feedback from it. What do you think about what you saw even though it's in a bit of a very rough
0:37:58state? It's crazy in all the right ways. Like you have made of I think more than what I took from
0:38:13it is it's more than the video itself. What I feel like I saw in that video is your process.
0:38:21You are highlighting your process quite a lot of how you make a video.
0:38:26Like the research that you do, right? Because it's like you could have chosen to do all of
0:38:34the research and just, well there's nothing here. I can't make a video about this because there's no
0:38:41proof or anything. But instead you made a video about that process which I found very interesting
0:38:48and entertaining too because you sound like a wild person running around the globe. So it's
0:38:56a very entertaining video and has an interesting story at the end and a very, I just feel like a
0:39:02fascinating meta commentary on history.
0:39:07Okay, phew. I was holding my breath there because that's a big relief. That's sort of
0:39:15what I'm going for. There's a link in the show notes, but a quick recap, because I didn't
0:39:21want to describe it until I just let Myke talk. The full story is that there is this
0:39:26urban legend about why Staten Island is part of New York, and it has to do with this race
0:39:32around the island that just never occurred, but like it was supposed to have happened
0:39:36at some point in the 1600s. And when I was originally researching the Statue of Liberty
0:39:42video, which is actually a bit a video about the territorial disputes between New York
0:39:47and New Jersey, a bunch of sources referenced this race. And it's like, oh, this is a thing
0:39:54that happened. And it's why Staten Island is part of New York. And I had come across
0:39:59a few like slightly different versions of it. And there were a couple of things that
0:40:04felt like to me they were described in a vague way. And I did have a little bit of a sense
0:40:12for like, I've done this so much that I think I don't have a bad radar for what things should
0:40:18you like really try to investigate further. And I pushed a little bit on what are the
0:40:25primary sources for this story about this race. And over the course of the year, like the whole
0:40:31thing just totally fell apart, that this story just doesn't exist. Like there's no documentation
0:40:40for it happening at the time. There's no reason to think that it ever occurred. And I thought the
0:40:46race was interesting as a just as like a little urban legend in and of itself. But this kind of
0:40:54thing does happen to me all the time. And like a real frustration that I can have sometimes is,
0:41:01it's, it's really hard to track down something to the point where you feel like, oh, I'm confident
0:41:07enough putting that in a video. So most of the time, you just end up in a situation where it's
0:41:12like, oh, this thing isn't real, or I feel a little bit uncertain about it. And so all that happens is
0:41:18a paragraph of text gets deleted and nothing ever happens. No one ever knows about it. But
0:41:26the way this one unraveled I thought ended up being an interesting example of just trying to
0:41:40trace footnotes backwards through history. And there happened to be enough good and different
0:41:47examples going backwards through time of different sources talking about this story that I thought
0:41:54like, oh, this actually does make an interesting meta video that that this can become a little
0:42:02story about how the stories are made. And that's, that's sort of what I was hoping would would be
0:42:08the reaction that you would have to seeing it as kind of what I hope the viewers get out of it is
0:42:13you can enjoy this video on the primary level of of what it is actually talking about this
0:42:22historical event that didn't occur. But I do hope that a person can enjoy it on this secondary level
0:42:29like if you're it, you know, the for cortex listeners, people who are interested in how
0:42:35does this stuff get made? I think there's a meta level on which that video can be enjoyed. And,
0:42:40and you did, you did pick up on, you know, for me, what is a what is a tertiary level, which is a,
0:42:48like an uncomfortable commentary on history, and, and knowing the certainty of things like,
0:42:56I don't really go into that very much. It's not in the video, really. But it's it's as,
0:43:01I think it's a thought that is a natural implication of watching that video.
0:43:06- Right, because there's a weird thing where a building is maintained and turned into a museum
0:43:11to honor a person who apparently did a thing that nobody can prove was ever done.
0:43:16Because there's no way you're the first person who's tried to work this out.
0:43:19- No, I am not the first person who tried to work this out, and I got sort of unlucky
0:43:24with the original sources that I had come across this story in.
0:43:30Because yeah, other people have tried to track this down of like, this thing isn't real.
0:43:37But in the first month or two, I ended up not coming across any of those and totally felt like conspiracy man.
0:43:44And as the year went on, like just some weird things happened where it's a bit like, I don't want to be crazy.
0:43:51But why is it that the documents that happened to be the documents I'm exactly looking for are the only documents that you're missing?
0:43:58right? It's like, you know, I don't really think there's any conspiracy, but I did get, like, so
0:44:06deep about, like, what's Staten Island doing to protect their hometown hero, right? Like,
0:44:11it's, it was very, very strange, and my conclusion is, like, so the Captain Billup,
0:44:20the person who supposedly ran this race in the 1600s, his house exists as a museum today,
0:44:27But it's there because of something his great-grandson did.
0:44:31And his great-grandson was involved in the Revolutionary War.
0:44:37And then the stories of what the great-grandfather did don't show up for another hundred years.
0:44:43And so I think this is just an example of, there's enough thing in reality, like,
0:44:51"Oh, this house is important, but why? It was a hundred years ago."
0:44:56It just gives a little bit of a place for a story to start crystallizing over time that isn't really true and that people don't bother to check up on.
0:45:07So like I just I just think it's very interesting in a in a in a bunch of different ways.
0:45:12But I got to say this has been it is not a project that has been continuously worked on for a year, but it has taken a year because there were a lot of there are a lot of times where it's like.
0:45:24harassing a historical archive to send some papers and it takes a couple months before they come along and like the whole the whole thing just has to wait until I get a documents, you know from New Jersey sent to me in London, that kind of thing.
0:45:37So I feel like I've been living with this story for a year. And it's also been a project that's
0:45:46Sort of different and hard to think about how to do.
0:45:51And as we record, I'm still not entirely sure what the final thing will look like because
0:45:58it's the first time I've ever tried to blend animated style with doing something in real life.
0:46:05Yeah, I wondered if you wanted to talk about this part.
0:46:08Yeah, well, it's a little bit hard to talk about right now because I just don't know what the final
0:46:14thing will look like. Right now I know that the beginning is very heavily animated, and the end is almost entirely live action.
0:46:22But I still haven't decided for the middle part of it how much of a blend there is going to be.
0:46:30I just don't know, and it's a difficult sort of project to do, and like you were talking about before,
0:46:36about before. It's like you're very close to it and you lose you lose objectivity about what is
0:46:44this like? What is what is this like for viewers who are expecting my animated videos when it
0:46:49transitions into live action? How is that going to be received? Or like, how can I make it seem
0:46:54smooth? I don't, I don't know. And that stuff is still up in the air right now for me. What made
0:46:59you want to do the transition into some live action parts for this video? Because I think it
0:47:04makes sense for the story. I traveled to New Jersey to try and track down the historians who
0:47:13work at the museum that I was trying to get in touch with remotely, unsuccessfully, repeatedly.
0:47:19And I traveled to New York to try and track down some of the missing paperwork for this urban
0:47:27Like I really went there and that just feels like
0:47:32it makes sense to show it in real life.
0:47:35Like this is me going to the place.
0:47:38I don't think it would work in the same way
0:47:41if it was animation or I think it would maybe
0:47:44come off more as a story.
0:47:47- You could animate that but you did actually do it
0:47:51and you know how to work a camera.
0:47:53So maybe you should do,
0:47:56You know what, like, you could animate everything, you could animate the library, you could animate
0:48:02the door being closed, but you were actually in those places, so maybe people would want
0:48:07to see them.
0:48:08Do you think that's the right decision to have it live action at the end?
0:48:11Does that work for you as a viewer?
0:48:13I think it works for the video that you made.
0:48:16Okay.
0:48:17Because if you said to me, "I went to these places and I saw this thing and you weren't
0:48:21showing me the actual thing," I think I would be frustrated by it, because it's like, "Well,
0:48:25are you telling me about the graveyard that you visited in a thunderstorm?
0:48:30I was so wet.
0:48:31I want to see that instead. It made sense to show what you were talking about. I will
0:48:39be intrigued to see if and how Live Action Grey finds his way into other videos, if that's
0:48:46a thing that you want to do, but I think when the story needs it, like a vlog, you should
0:48:52show it and this one definitely benefited from being.
0:48:54Part animated Gray part vlogging Gray and I think blending those
0:49:01two together into a video is one interesting and two kind of
0:49:05surprising as a viewer pressing play on that video.
0:49:08I would never expect that you were going to do what you did
0:49:10and I think that that's kind of that's exciting.
0:49:15I think that's fun.
0:49:15That's sort of the thing that I'm going for because it also
0:49:18snuck up on me as I was working on this project slowly slowly the idea keeps creeping into
0:49:24my head of am I going to go to New Jersey?
0:49:27No, that's ridiculous.
0:49:30Right?
0:49:32Who goes to New Jersey for a thing that didn't happen 400 years ago?
0:49:38Right?
0:49:39Yeah, it's like, I'm like, I'm not going.
0:49:41I'm not going there now.
0:49:42But it really did keep growing on me.
0:49:52I found myself surprised that I was compelled to go.
0:49:57And the whole thing was ridiculous.
0:50:01And I told some people, and they're like, "Wait, you're going to Staten Island, why?"
0:50:07And it's like, "Well, there's this museum."
0:50:10And they never answered my phone calls or answered my emails and I want to go ask them
0:50:14some questions.
0:50:16Like about what?
0:50:17Oh, something that didn't happen at their museum.
0:50:21Quite reasonably, people thought that was not a good idea or they thought that was ridiculous.
0:50:27I really felt compelled, like I have to do this.
0:50:31I have to see this all the way to the end.
0:50:37And so there is a way in which it was surprising for me.
0:50:41And I do kind of hope to convey that in the video that it's like, this is not a thing
0:50:45that you would expect me to do.
0:50:47It's not a thing that I would expect me to do.
0:50:49That's interesting to me because I'm not surprised you did this.
0:50:54Why?
0:50:56I'm surprised I did this.
0:50:58It seems very out of character, Myke.
0:51:02Yes, it is very out of character.
0:51:05I just like it seems I don't know like I feel like this seems like something that is for your
0:51:11curiosity. Yeah I guess the thing that that I can get 99.9% of the way there without having to leave
0:51:19my comfy home and it's just it's it's this last one percent that I didn't even really hope would
0:51:29would go anywhere, but it's like,
0:51:30"But I've got to see this thing through."
0:51:33Right?
0:51:35Like, "I'm gonna stand at the grave of a man
0:51:39"who wasted my time centuries later.
0:51:42"Like, I'm gonna do it."
0:51:44And it's ridiculous.
0:51:46Because I think the other thing
0:51:47that you have to keep in mind is this,
0:51:49it's not clear for a very long time
0:51:52that this is actually going to be a video,
0:51:54from my side as the production person.
0:51:58What it really was is like spending a lot of time trying to track down this thing that
0:52:04became an increasingly interesting, I don't know, like mystery as it went along.
0:52:10That's why I said before, like I have this thing of this trick of putting interesting
0:52:14things in the footnote that don't really belong as videos of themselves and this is where
0:52:19they just go to silently die.
0:52:22And I just kind of felt like, oh, I'm spending a lot of time on this one.
0:52:25This is much more time than I would ever spend on something like this.
0:52:28And so it is also surprising to me that it ended up becoming a becoming a whole video.
0:52:32But I am pretty pleased with the state that it's currently in, even though I don't know
0:52:36what the final mix of animation and live action is, is going to be.
0:52:41But I've had I've had an interesting year.
0:52:44And this is this is one of these things that I'm like, I'm really glad to finally be able
0:52:49to get out of my head and out into the internet.
0:52:53I kind of think of this as a video for like the hardcore gray fans.
0:52:56is not a viral video generally applicable kind of thing.
0:53:03It's a project that's been really interesting to me to be a part of.
0:53:05Again, this is like, ah, time paradox.
0:53:10The Tesla video did really well.
0:53:13And I would say that that was more for the hardcore fan than this is.
0:53:21that was like here's a super long vlog about driving a Tesla which is not a new thing right
0:53:28this is not a new car right like this is like it wasn't like you had access to a special Tesla
0:53:33and it's like it's an hour long yeah yeah and that and that footage was at that point three summers
0:53:38old whereas all of this stuff I mean some of this stuff I only filmed but uh but a month ago
0:53:44Look at you! It's basically shiny new.
0:53:46Yeah I mean maybe you know and and if there's one thing I've learned over the years of making
0:53:54things for the internet is you can't have any expectations about whether things do well or
0:53:57whether things do poorly. That there's just like there's no point in in trying to play that game
0:54:01or even guessing. You can have feelings like you like I do but I just don't I don't put any I don't
0:54:07put any stock in those but I do want to get on the record that I was really soaked in that graveyard
0:54:12at the end. It looked terrible, but as I watched it, I was like, how perfect.
0:54:18You were blessed with that thunderstorm. I that it was a flash storm that came in.
0:54:27It like I have not seen any thunderstorms come in and I had no weather gear for that at all.
0:54:36And a thing that I have not told you is that storm broke my iPhone.
0:54:45That I was using my iPhone to do all of that footage because I was like, OK, I'm all set here.
0:54:54I've got a waterproof phone. Thank God I can film something because my other equipment was not ready
0:55:02for the rain. And I got all of that footage and I got it off of the phone, but water got in
0:55:10somewhere and I had to abandon my iPhone and roll back to my old iPhone X, and that's what I'm
0:55:19currently using. But I have some footage, it didn't make it into the video, but I have some footage
0:55:26where you can see the water start to roll over the interior of the camera lens.
0:55:30I need to see that. I need you to send me that. I need to see what that looks like,
0:55:37because that sounds fascinating. It just goes blurry, that's all it looks like.
0:55:42It's not anything, but when I got back to the hotel room and was drying off the equipment,
0:55:48I was looking at the camera lens and like, "Hey, there's water in there."
0:55:51Well, I guess that IP67 or whatever it is, we now know the limits of it.
0:55:56Yeah, and then, so I got all the footage off quickly, and I was like, "Oh, wait a minute,
0:56:03the 3D touch isn't working on this device anymore." And then, like, all input started to
0:56:08not work. I'm like, "Okay, iPhone." It was nice knowing you.
0:56:11Do you have AppleCare or are you not an AppleCare person?
0:56:15I am not an AppleCare person, because as we all know, insurance is gambling.
0:56:19Is that something we all know?
0:56:20Yeah, that's what insurance is. It's gambling. Everyone knows that.
0:56:23Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, of course. Of course.
0:56:25AppleCare, you're gambling with your phone. Life insurance, gambling with your life.
0:56:30I don't think it is as clear cut as how you just presented it, but we can...
0:56:35No, that's just...
0:56:35It's catchy sounding.
0:56:37Yeah, I don't have AppleCare. I do have life insurance.
0:56:39There you go. I gamble on my life, not my phone.
0:56:43Yeah, that's ridiculous. And I have, over the years, come out way ahead on not
0:56:50not getting AppleCare. This is like the one time that I rolled the dice and it didn't work out in
0:56:56my favor. RIP phone, you died gloriously in a flash thunderstorm in a graveyard on Staten Island.
0:57:04You know, thank you for your service. If you're gonna go, there's quite a way to go.
0:57:08Yeah, I feel very lucky I didn't get Insomnia on the 45 minute drive back to my hotel in a
0:57:15completely soaked through hoodie with no other clothes.
0:57:19- Did you mean pneumonia?
0:57:20- Oh, what did I say?
0:57:21- Insomnia.
0:57:22(laughing)
0:57:24- I'm glad I didn't get insomnia or pneumonia.
0:57:27I'm very glad I didn't get that.
0:57:30- How'd you become an insomniac?
0:57:31Well, I went to a graveyard.
0:57:32(laughing)
0:57:34- And now Disaway's ghost is following me and I can't sleep.
0:57:37(laughing)
0:57:39- Oh dear.
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0:59:27On our next episode we're doing a Cortex Movie Club and we are watching Jiro Dreams of Sushi.
0:59:34This is a documentary about a man who is in his 80s at the time of filming who makes the
0:59:40best sushi in the world.
0:59:42So you can go watch that.
0:59:43I think it's on Netflix in America I believe and I know you can buy it on iTunes so you
0:59:51can go watch that.
0:59:52We're going to be talking about that on the next episode.
0:59:54We'll also have all of the answers to the time paradox problem that we've been describing
0:59:58throughout this entire episode.
1:00:00So if you're wondering what on earth we've been referring to, episode 91 will have all
1:00:04of these answers and more for you.
1:00:06Jiro dreams of sushi.
1:00:08Go watch it.
1:00:09I really think you should.
1:00:10Yeah.
1:00:11Homework.
1:00:12Homework.
1:00:13Let's round out today's quite peculiar, I think, episode of Cortex with some #AskCortex
1:00:17questions.
1:00:18We will go to the Cortexans.
1:00:20The first one comes from Emil.
1:00:22Emil asks, "What thing goes in which pocket
1:00:24"and does it change during summer and winter?"
1:00:26- You wanna go through your pockets, Myke?
1:00:27- Well, I can tell you there are only ever four things
1:00:30in my pockets, phone, wallet, AirPods, keys.
1:00:34They are the four things that go in my pockets.
1:00:36- Those are the four things, yep, that is true.
1:00:38- Wait, but I've seen you covered in pockets.
1:00:41Do you only ever have those four things
1:00:43when you're CG pockets?
1:00:45- Don't you start with this, Myke.
1:00:48(laughing)
1:00:50I have seen you with a hat that has pockets in it and shirts that have pockets on it and
1:00:54trousers with pockets, but like lots of pockets.
1:00:57And then there was that whole cartility bag thing about your requirement for more pockets.
1:01:02So you only carry those four things?
1:01:04What do you bag for?
1:01:08I forgot when I showed you the pocket in my hat that I was keeping some paperwork in.
1:01:12I forgot about that.
1:01:13So it's like, I only have four things unless I'm covered in pockets, and then I'll just
1:01:17put anything in there.
1:01:19Bit of paperwork, sure.
1:01:21- Look, look, look.
1:01:22Why don't you tell me about your pockets, Myke?
1:01:24- All right.
1:01:25Right pocket is phone.
1:01:26It's the only thing that goes in my right pocket.
1:01:29I am left-handed.
1:01:32- Right.
1:01:32- But I do, my dominant hand is my right hand.
1:01:35That's an interesting thing about me.
1:01:37- That's not what left-handed means.
1:01:38- Right with my left hand.
1:01:40That is what it means.
1:01:41When people say they're left or right-handed,
1:01:43they mean by the way that they write.
1:01:45But my dominant hand, so everything else,
1:01:47I only write with my left hand.
1:01:49Everything else I do with my right hand.
1:01:50I use scissors with my right hand.
1:01:51My right arm is my stronger arm.
1:01:53Like, if I was gonna throw a punch,
1:01:55I would throw it right-handed.
1:01:56- No, you're just right-handed.
1:02:00- I'm left-handed.
1:02:01Nobody, okay, all right, so here's the thing, right?
1:02:03We're having a conversation, and I say I'm right-handed,
1:02:06and then you go, "Oh, okay,"
1:02:07and then you see me pick up a pen
1:02:09with my left hand to write something.
1:02:10You go, "You're left-handed."
1:02:12But if I say I'm left-handed,
1:02:13and I use scissors with my right hand,
1:02:15you don't go, "Hang on a second, you're right-handed."
1:02:17That's not how it goes.
1:02:18- No, you're right-handed.
1:02:20- No, I'm not.
1:02:21- You have one thing you do with your left hand.
1:02:23- No, I am left-handed,
1:02:25but I do everything else with my right hand.
1:02:27- I'm sorry, Myke, you were incorrect.
1:02:29No, I'm gonna buzz you out on Family Feud.
1:02:33That's the Family Feud question.
1:02:34Which handed is Myke?
1:02:35What does everybody else say?
1:02:36- There will be a link in the show notes to a Google form.
1:02:41It has one question.
1:02:43Is Myke left-handed?
1:02:45Is Myke right-handed?
1:02:46(laughing)
1:02:47Go to this survey and answer this question.
1:02:50I will not let this one lie.
1:02:52You'll find out the answer in about a month.
1:02:55So bear that in mind, it's not coming up next time.
1:02:59- Yeah, there's plenty of time
1:03:01to send in your postal vote on this one.
1:03:02- Yes, but 'cause this is, I won't accept this.
1:03:05Stop trying to take away my identity.
1:03:07I'm a left-handed individual.
1:03:08- But no, I totally understand.
1:03:11That's exactly what happens here.
1:03:13You wanna be part of the embattled lefties, right?
1:03:15But you're actually just a right-handed.
1:03:16- I don't want to be a part of the embattled lefties.
1:03:18Like I have spent my life just like doing things
1:03:21like a right-handed person except for writing my left hand.
1:03:24Anyway, phone goes in my right pocket,
1:03:28my wallet goes in my back pocket.
1:03:30Yes, I know, I don't want to hear it.
1:03:32I have a very thin wallet.
1:03:34It has five credit cards in it and that's it.
1:03:36It's a Bellroy wallet.
1:03:37I'll put a link in the show notes.
1:03:38- I was gonna say, we have that same, the little slim one.
1:03:41It's a great little wallet. - Yeah, it's beautiful wallet.
1:03:43I love it.
1:03:44I've owned one for years and I'm very happy with it.
1:03:46It's exactly what I need because it also puts the restriction on me to not have too much in my wallet.
1:03:50And then my left pocket goes my keys and my AirPods.
1:03:54Okay, AirPods in front pocket, right?
1:03:57Yeah, front left, front left keys and AirPods.
1:04:00Right back is wallet, right front is phone.
1:04:03Okay, so then you have an empty back pocket?
1:04:06Yes.
1:04:08I am right-handed. I do everything with my right hand.
1:04:12This is not part of the question.
1:04:15My left hand is here for typing.
1:04:20ornamental reasons only.
1:04:22For holding sparkling water bottles while my right hand twists off the cap.
1:04:27It's the support arm.
1:04:29That's how handedness works.
1:04:31Now what Myke is trying to give me a real hassle about is the thing is Myke and I, we
1:04:37live in the same city, we often see each other when we're traveling on the other side of
1:04:41the globe.
1:04:43And Myke is then seeing travel gray.
1:04:47And travel gray has many more needs than at home gray.
1:04:53So this is this is why my frustration, my desire for a fertility bag, my need for a
1:05:00cowboy hat with a pocket in the top.
1:05:02You know, all of these things to put my natural cheese in.
1:05:06Yeah, because you've got Yeah.
1:05:11- You've got way more things you need
1:05:14when you're away from home than you're traveling.
1:05:16And I don't always want to carry around a big backpack,
1:05:20but there's just a bunch of little things
1:05:22that you'd like to have with you
1:05:24when you're out and about.
1:05:25You want to have like a couple aspirin,
1:05:29you want to have your earplugs,
1:05:31because everywhere is too loud,
1:05:33or people are trying to talk to you.
1:05:35You want to have a little hand sanitizer with you
1:05:37if the people touch you.
1:05:38Can I define, get a definition from you for what out and about is?
1:05:43I'm just trying to traveling, right?
1:05:45Where we're on, we're in California because it's apple season.
1:05:49Okay.
1:05:49That kind of thing.
1:05:50Yeah.
1:05:50But like, I will see you with all your pockets on like Wednesday of WWDC, right?
1:05:58Right.
1:05:59Yeah.
1:05:59That's traveling.
1:06:00Okay.
1:06:00But if I see you in the street in London, you won't be adorned in pockets, right?
1:06:07I won't be adorned in pockets.
1:06:08So I'm trying to understand what the difference is.
1:06:10- Because the difference is, it's an uncertain environment.
1:06:13You don't know where, like look,
1:06:14the thing that has totally happened,
1:06:16people laugh at me, right, but you have to be prepared
1:06:20with like a beef jerky meal at any time
1:06:23when you're out on the road,
1:06:24because you never know when you're going to eat.
1:06:27- I agree with that when you were like in a car
1:06:30moving across the plains.
1:06:34- Right.
1:06:35you're in downtown of a city.
1:06:38- No, it's traveling.
1:06:39It's still traveling because you don't know
1:06:43what's going to happen.
1:06:44You're gonna get sucked into a meeting with people
1:06:46that goes on for way too long,
1:06:48or you're gonna suddenly be spirited away
1:06:50to a company headquarters.
1:06:52- There's always food at those places.
1:06:54- No, but you can't count on it,
1:06:55and you don't know what it's gonna be,
1:06:56and you don't know when it's gonna be.
1:06:58You need to always have water available
1:07:00because there's never enough water around.
1:07:02So this is traveling.
1:07:05Oh, great.
1:07:06I went to the best company cafeteria that I've ever been to.
1:07:10- Who has the best company cafeteria?
1:07:13- Industrial Light and Magic.
1:07:14- Oh, interesting.
1:07:16- Yeah.
1:07:17- When did you go there?
1:07:18- When I was in San Francisco.
1:07:20- Oh, sneaky, sneaky Myke.
1:07:22- I got a tour from a friend of the show, Todd.
1:07:25- What did you think of Industrial Light and Magic?
1:07:27- It's amazing.
1:07:29They have all the props just like hanging around.
1:07:34They're just like hanging around.
1:07:36It's incredible.
1:07:37Like every hallway, every entranceway
1:07:40is just surrounded by stuff.
1:07:43It's amazing.
1:07:44- For the people who are unfamiliar,
1:07:46what are the kinds of movie props
1:07:47that Industrial Light and Magic has?
1:07:49What are the projects they've been involved in?
1:07:51- Star Wars.
1:07:52- Right, there we go.
1:07:53- Is the big one, Ghostbusters.
1:07:55I got to take a picture and stand in front of the,
1:08:00Is it Igor's portrait from Ghostbusters 2?
1:08:04Vigo, the Vigo portrait from Ghostbusters 2.
1:08:08I got to stand right in front of that, take a picture of it.
1:08:11I have a picture of me in front of multiple Darth Vader costumes.
1:08:14It was amazing in there. And they had just an amazing cafeteria.
1:08:18And I had a cheeseburger in there, which was unbelievable.
1:08:23Everywhere people go, the food is the thing they remember the most.
1:08:26You need impressive cafeteria if you're a cool company.
1:08:30Yeah, well they all try and this was the best one.
1:08:33They did, everybody was paying though. I didn't understand what the situation was there. I didn't ask.
1:08:40I do actually think that is a healthier arrangement, like mentally, but I understand why most companies give the food away for free.
1:08:48I don't know if this is correct, but I have a very dim memory of San Francisco instituting
1:08:54some kind of city ordinance that changed the state of those cafeterias that the companies
1:08:59were charging instead of giving it away for free.
1:09:03There's some kind of like, "Oh, we have to count it as employee salaries thing otherwise."
1:09:07I don't remember exactly what it was, but I wonder if that's what it is.
1:09:11Why do you think it's healthier though?
1:09:13I wouldn't want that.
1:09:14If I was an employee, you can feed me.
1:09:16Whilst as an employee, I would love to get free food,
1:09:20I think that sometimes large tech companies use the food
1:09:25as like a stepping stone into the trapping in mentality
1:09:30that we saw at like Facebook.
1:09:32- Fortress Facebook.
1:09:34The literal walled city.
1:09:36- It is like the gateway
1:09:37because if the cafeteria is always open,
1:09:41then you can stay late and just have dinner.
1:09:44And that is, I think, something that a lot of people fall into.
1:09:48Yeah, I can see what you're saying there.
1:09:51I think I would still want it to be free.
1:09:53I can see that maybe works as a psychological nudge.
1:09:57If it's like, it's open for lunchtime only and the food is free, then that's cool.
1:10:03But a lot of these places is like, well, there's just always some food.
1:10:06Right.
1:10:07And that is a little bit more uncomfortable to me.
1:10:09Right.
1:10:10or as we saw, we have free food,
1:10:13and we'll also do your laundry.
1:10:15You can get a haircut, and we have a doctor,
1:10:18but oh, don't sleep under your desk,
1:10:20but we do have everything you would need
1:10:21if you were going to.
1:10:23- And that's what, that's kind of,
1:10:24I think it's like a gateway, right?
1:10:26Like the free food is like a gateway to that,
1:10:30and that's kind of the thing that, I don't know,
1:10:33it makes me feel like, hmm, I question it,
1:10:36but I've never worked in a place that have free food,
1:10:39but the food was incredible, but you didn't get it for free, you had to pay for it.
1:10:42Well the schools had free food. It wasn't especially delicious.
1:10:47I never had free food.
1:10:49What, as a student you had to pay for your food?
1:10:51Yeah, I used to have a packed lunch.
1:10:53Or you had to pay a small amount of money like the parent had to pay.
1:10:58It was free for me as the kid because I didn't have any money, but...
1:11:01Oh, I guess that's sort of what I was thinking, like,
1:11:04"Wait a minute, did you like work?"
1:11:06[laughter]
1:11:08And I was going to say something about the difference between private and public schools,
1:11:13but then like, okay, wait, thankfully we got here fast enough, so I didn't say something really dumb.
1:11:18Yeah.
1:11:19About like, wow, I'm really glad I didn't work in the public sector.
1:11:23Somebody's paying for the food.
1:11:25Right, right. Okay.
1:11:27John wants to know, "What were your first computers that got you started on your roads to professional geekdom?"
1:11:34And I like the way this question is asked because my first computer, I don't even remember it,
1:11:40but it was like a gateway or whatever. But like, I don't have any fondness for that. And it wasn't
1:11:45what started me on this journey. Like my first computer that really set me on the path that I am
1:11:51now was a 2005 Intel iMac, which was the first Intel iMac. So you're using this as this is the
1:11:59or this is the computer that started you
1:12:02down the career path?
1:12:04- Well, this was just what set,
1:12:05the question is like a professional geekdom, right?
1:12:09Oh, it may have been 2006, not 2005.
1:12:11Let me correct myself now.
1:12:122006 into line-up.
1:12:14- Okay, I have a clarifying question then.
1:12:16So were you, were you like,
1:12:20I guess I never really thought of this,
1:12:21but I guess you're not really a computer person
1:12:28in this way of you were probably not a kid writing programs like when you were 12.
1:12:35No.
1:12:36That's not you.
1:12:37You need to remember, Gray.
1:12:38Like, I mean, there's not a big age difference, but like my...
1:12:41So I think for your childhood, it was you wrote programs for my childhood.
1:12:47It's like, hey, the internet.
1:12:49Yeah, no, no, like, yeah, we're just on the other side of that barrier.
1:12:55I've often feel really lucky to be born at what I feel like was just the right time for like maximum
1:13:02appreciation of technology, both because we've had this tremendous acceleration in technology over the
1:13:09past several decades.
1:13:11And, and, and also I feel glad to have predated the modern internet just enough.
1:13:23And I have often wondered that like if per capita there are fewer programmy people who
1:13:32were on the other side of that internet divide, like when you have real graphical user interfaces
1:13:38as your as your starting point.
1:13:39I mean, I used computers that had a green text on a black background, but like they
1:13:45were when I was very young and it was like, here's a couple of games you'd maybe play
1:13:49at the computer at your uncle's house, which is what my situation was.
1:13:53Yeah, and you're just a little too young to be doing the, like, what's underneath this part of it.
1:13:59You're still using it as an interface, even though it is text.
1:14:01Yeah, exactly. And then when I kind of got to the age where you were when you started paying
1:14:06attention to the stuff in that way, it was for me, look at these games on the BBC's website,
1:14:13you know, like, and then I moved on from there, like discovering the internet.
1:14:19So would you like again to clarify, would you say that that first Mac then is what?
1:14:23Started your interest in technology.
1:14:27In and of itself, was it much more tool like for you?
1:14:32I was interested in it before, but that was the computer that really set me on the path
1:14:38that I'm on now. What were you using before?
1:14:40A PC of some description like I don't even know. It was just like just a PC.
1:14:45I got a PC world and it was the family computer like that. I'm a was also my it was the first
1:14:50computer that was mine. That was my computer. I just I saw this question as the follow up
1:14:56and I would not have guessed something so late in time, but I think that's like that's just that is
1:15:02interesting and it is a side effect of which side of the divide of the Internet. Were you on that
1:15:09same computer for you, I think was was for me of when I decided to make the switch from Linux and
1:15:17Windows to go to Mac instead. And, and that was also when I issued my family an ultimatum, that
1:15:24if you want tech support, you're going to have to follow me down this trail because I'm not keeping
1:15:29track of three different, three different systems. Was anyone else in the family using Linux gray?
1:15:34Really? I think you might have just been keeping track of that one for yourself.
1:15:38That's true, you know what, you're right. But it was very like, "FYI, I'm doing a thing,
1:15:46and you can come or you cannot, that's your choice, but there's going to be repercussions
1:15:51if you don't in terms of you gotta find your tech support somewhere else." So it's just funny that
1:15:56that's the computer that started you down the course. Well I think then, isn't that kind of
1:16:01the same for both of us, but there were other computers in our lives before where like, I was
1:16:06interested in technology, right? That's why I knew that the iMac was coming. I had iPods and stuff
1:16:14like that before, but I was using the family's computer because I didn't have the funds to buy
1:16:20my own. But I had a job then when I was 18, right? I had a part-time job while I was still in school.
1:16:26So I was watching all of these keynotes and I knew that my birthday was coming up and I was
1:16:32gonna buy an iMac and then they announced the Intel one it's like amazing I'm gonna get that one
1:16:37and then that was what really then from there it was like okay because that was the first computer
1:16:44where I was like this has so many amazing tools on it why don't I try and do something creatively
1:16:50you know like the very first podcast I ever recorded was on that machine it was uh abandoned
1:16:57and I think halfway through the recording, but I tried.
1:17:00(laughing)
1:17:01- Yeah, but that's the start.
1:17:02- Yeah, right, and then I tried a bunch of other things.
1:17:06You know, I built iLife websites
1:17:08and all that kind of nonsense all on there, right?
1:17:12So iWeb, that was it, iWeb.
1:17:13It used to be like iWeb stuff and all of those things
1:17:16on that computer because it opened up
1:17:20all of these avenues to me and gave me the autonomy
1:17:24to be able to do whatever I wanted because it was mine
1:17:26and I could do whatever I wanted with it.
1:17:27And I was the only person in my family that had a Mac
1:17:30and knew how to use a Mac.
1:17:32It's like it was my computer.
1:17:33So then from there, that was the one that pushed me.
1:17:38I mean, if you want to think about what was the device
1:17:41that sent me on this path, it was the iPod Mini.
1:17:43'Cause the iPod Mini got me interested in Apple
1:17:48and then it kind of went on from there.
1:17:50- Yeah, those iPods were totally gateway drugs.
1:17:53- For everybody. - Yeah.
1:17:54- Yeah, that was my gateway drug too.
1:17:57This iPod is delicious.
1:17:58- I had a pink one.
1:18:01- Where can I get more of this?
1:18:02- I loved my pink iPod Mini, it was amazing.
1:18:05- Many hours of Solitaire playing on the first iPod.
1:18:08I was like, wow, this is amazing.
1:18:09- I did the Breakout type game more than Solitaire.
1:18:14- I forgot about Breakout, I totally forgot about that one.
1:18:17Okay, I've been looking for an image to show you
1:18:22of what I would regard as the computer that got me started professionally in computers.
1:18:28And this, I'm not sure if this is the exact model, but it is close enough.
1:18:34So I've sent you a link so you can see this image.
1:18:37Oh, wow. Look at you.
1:18:41So there were many computers in my youth, but this is the one that sticks out the most clearly for obvious reasons.
1:18:50this is a compact portable portable in 1000 quotations. Oh, and a handle on it a big thick
1:18:58leather handle. Look at that. Yes. So actually, when we went to the Computer History Museum,
1:19:06which is in in my vlog very briefly, there's a shot of me picking up one of these things.
1:19:12If you remember, there was a computer that they had in like a case where you could pick
1:19:15it up to feel what it weighed like as one of the first portable computers. That one
1:19:20was an old Osborne computer, but the compact was basically the same thing a few years later.
1:19:25And if if you imagine the tower of a big computer, and that if there was a spot where you could
1:19:35pull off a panel and that panel was a keyboard, and there was a tiny screen on one of the
1:19:40sides behind that keyboard. That's what the well that's what the compacts look like. They were very
1:19:46heavy. They were portable, in only the most technically correct kind of sense that yes,
1:19:54they could be moved from one location to another as a single piece. My parents had had computers
1:20:00around the house, but this computer was given to me to use as my computer many, many years after it
1:20:08it was manufactured. I'm guessing because my parents were basically like, we have no
1:20:12need use for this computer. It's just a piece of junk sitting around the house. Let's give
1:20:16it to our child. And if he totally breaks it, it doesn't matter. And so this is the
1:20:22computer that I remember feeling like I had real free reign on this thing. And this is
1:20:28where I remember playing around with the prompt and discovering programming and really having
1:20:35this idea that the computer is a machine that you can get to do things for you. And of course,
1:20:43in this very limited self contained world of programming, I was totally entranced by
1:20:49this idea of if I can figure it out, I can get this machine to do stuff for me, that
1:20:56idea was just completely hooked into my brain and was the start of everything. And for a
1:21:01very long time, I thought I was going to be a computer programmer. And I can very easily
1:21:07imagine if things had gone ever so slightly differently in my life. That's the path that
1:21:11I would have taken this portable computer that weighed 40 pounds was for me the real
1:21:17start of the thing. And I genuinely think that it's horrific limitations for being a very old
1:21:24computer at the time that that wasn't connected to the internet for a kid in a just pre-internet
1:21:32age were all advantages. That I had nothing but time to sit down and try to figure out this thing
1:21:39and it wasn't really designed as a gaming machine or anything else. It was just like a professional
1:21:45computer that happened to end up being a thing that my parents let me play around with. So
1:21:52That was the thing that got me started.