0:00:00Okay, you ready? I'm ready. Here you go. Myke has handed me an object. Mm-hmm
0:00:05An object that I have wanted to see in person for a long time. It's the theme system journal
0:00:11It's the theme system journal
0:00:14so
0:00:16Yeah, what what gray has in his hands right now is currently available at cortexmerch.com
0:00:23And it is the reason that we create a cortex brand so
0:00:29I think this idea has been in the works for about a year.
0:00:33Yeah, I'm gonna say the reason I'm gonna say about a year is because I remember you and I
0:00:39first discussed the idea of we should we should make a theme system notebook and of course
0:00:45if you're going to make a theme system notebook you know when you should sell it?
0:00:50November. We wanted it for this January, January just comes so six months ago.
0:00:57right six that's right it was six months ago because we'd had the idea sort of six months
0:01:02ahead of time and then like this seems possible right how long could it possibly take to get as
0:01:08people may have heard mention on the show like only two months it's just two months away two
0:01:14months away right this is a little joke that me and gray have had between each other for for a
0:01:19while because of the theme system journal it always has felt like it's only two months away
0:01:26Basically one of the differences with this product
0:01:29compared to the other stuff that we've been doing
0:01:32is we've made it ourselves.
0:01:36Like we've found companies to work with
0:01:38and we've had it produced where the other,
0:01:41the clothing items that we've had,
0:01:43we've been working with our wonderful friends
0:01:45at Cotton Bureau who are fulfilling this for us,
0:01:47they're our fulfillment partner,
0:01:48but they've also been our manufacturing partner.
0:01:51Where this time we wanted to go out and do it on our own
0:01:54and I've learned a little bit about trials and tribulations
0:01:58of having something made.
0:02:00It's very, very difficult.
0:02:02And I wanna talk a little bit about that
0:02:04'cause I think that there's some interesting stuff in there,
0:02:07but I think we should actually talk a little bit
0:02:08about what the theme system is.
0:02:10This is a journaling system, a very light journaling system
0:02:15that we have created and adapted based upon my journal,
0:02:20the way that you journal,
0:02:23and the things that we've been talking about
0:02:24on this show for the last couple of years.
0:02:27It's broken down into three distinct sections.
0:02:30You have a yearly themes section.
0:02:32We've got like four pages
0:02:33where you can write down some themes.
0:02:35These could be one theme or two themes.
0:02:37We left it open.
0:02:39And they could be like your themes for the year,
0:02:41your themes for six months.
0:02:43The book itself is big enough for 90 days of journaling.
0:02:48So it can either take you a quarter
0:02:51or it could take you longer if you didn't journal every day,
0:02:53It's for somebody to journal every day for 90 days.
0:02:55- It's for one season.
0:02:57- So one season.
0:02:58The journal pages, this is the big meat of it.
0:03:01When we were thinking about how could we
0:03:04make something like this,
0:03:06what we looked at is the way that we both journal
0:03:09and the similarities between those two things
0:03:13is not the prompts,
0:03:15it's the fact that there are distinct sections
0:03:18that are important to us.
0:03:20So instead of creating like a system which is based around my good, bad, think, look
0:03:27forward system, it is just five boxes.
0:03:31So there's four kind of like things where you'd write a bunch of stuff in and then one
0:03:35little data box. Like for me, that's where I put the pens that I'm using.
0:03:38And then I will use the other sections to write in a bunch of stuff.
0:03:42So the idea being you pick the things that you want to be tracking and writing about
0:03:46every day and then you write about them every day and then you can change them.
0:03:50Like I actually, I was thinking a couple of days ago
0:03:53that I think I'm gonna change the like,
0:03:55what am I thinking section to what am I proud of?
0:03:58'Cause I found that I wasn't really writing
0:04:01like too much about what I'm thinking.
0:04:03Like, oh, what's on your mind today?
0:04:05It wasn't really what I wanted to be tracking,
0:04:07especially because my journal so focused on work
0:04:09a lot of the time that I was like,
0:04:11oh, what am I proud of?
0:04:13What did I achieve today?
0:04:14I think might be a nicer thing for me to record.
0:04:17So this is part of it, right?
0:04:18we didn't want to create a system that is enforcing questions on you as a user.
0:04:25Yeah so I mean like looking at the journal right now which is gorgeous and
0:04:29feels great how would I describe this texture? Leather-et. Leather-et. It's like
0:04:34a fake leather feeling. This embossing. It's a debossed. Yeah sorry. It's the Deboss Brain
0:04:39Lego. Debossed. Well because embossed comes out, debossed goes in. I know I know. Which is a great sentence.
0:04:45But yeah so like I'm looking at this beautiful black cover with this debossed
0:04:50brain logo on the front of the journal and it is it is so nice but yeah we like
0:04:57we sent back a bunch of revisions and ideas for how should the internal papers
0:05:05be set up and so and so yeah like when we were thinking about a journaling
0:05:10system there is this question about how much do you want to enforce
0:05:15the structure and enforce an idea of how it should be used and I think what was
0:05:21interesting is we were both like when we were looking at the designs we're trying
0:05:25to think about what's the thing that both of us would get use out of even
0:05:28though we're going to use it in different ways and so yeah like the the
0:05:33bulk of the journal like you're talking about has on each of these pages like a
0:05:37big section with the dot grid to write on and then like three smaller sections
0:05:43with dot grids and I feel like this is this is like the lightest touch of
0:05:46structure here here's a page and you have four and I would say four and a
0:05:53half a very tiny one at the top like it's very it's section we call it like
0:05:56the data box right these four sections that you can decide what you want to do
0:06:03with them and and so like you would like to write down okay you're thinking of
0:06:07doing like what you're proud of and if I'm journaling the thing which I always
0:06:11described as annoyingly effective is like what are you grateful for questions
0:06:16like that's the kind of thing where oh I could put that in the top box and then
0:06:20use the middle box for something else so I like kind of looks really good in
0:06:24person but like I'm very excited about this but yeah we spend a lot of time
0:06:28trying to think about what is the like the minimum useful level of structure
0:06:33when we don't know how people are gonna use this because I find myself turned
0:06:38off by a lot of the pre-printed journaling systems that exist because a lot of the time
0:06:44they're asking questions that I don't care about. So then I have to kind of fit myself
0:06:50to this idea where instead we were looking way more to give kind of like a canvas to
0:06:56people to track their thing. Because the thing that is the most important is the idea of
0:07:01having a theme. And then the theme which goes first in the book should then be informing
0:07:06how you're tracking yourself on a daily basis. And there is one other section which is daily
0:07:10themes which is the things that I ask myself, I ask these questions I ask myself every day,
0:07:16right? Where I will write down like how am I doing along these things? And you may remember
0:07:20a while ago I changed from doing a numbered score to coloring in a box. That was because
0:07:26of the pre-printed layout that we came up with here. Where we have a bunch of circles
0:07:33And the circle has a very faint line printed through it.
0:07:36So you could just write a number in it if you wanted to.
0:07:39You could tick it off as a checkbox or you could color it in.
0:07:42And I also thought when we were designing this, this could also just be a daily task
0:07:46list.
0:07:47Yeah.
0:07:48Yeah.
0:07:49So at the back of the journal you have like seven rows where there's a box where you could
0:07:54like again it's open, you can write whatever you want and then adjacent to it is a bunch
0:07:59of circles which can represent each of the individual days.
0:08:02And yeah, when you came up with the idea of like the very light line down the middle of
0:08:06the circle, I'm absolutely in love with that because it, again, it's like that really light
0:08:12suggestion of structure.
0:08:14You can totally ignore that if you want or it allows you to have two things that you
0:08:19can record related to whatever is in on the box on the left.
0:08:22And however you want to use it by putting what you want to track in the boxes on the
0:08:27left is like, is up to you.
0:08:30- So I guess the other thing that's worth mentioning
0:08:32on this is this is very much a version one product.
0:08:37So we have made a very small number of these
0:08:40because we're kind of considering this version
0:08:43of the notebook like a beta for the system.
0:08:46Because there are no instructions in it at all.
0:08:49There is nothing that explains what a theme is.
0:08:52The only people that should buy this notebook
0:08:55are people that listen to this show
0:08:57and believe in having themes.
0:09:00And then from there, we wanna get feedback
0:09:03from the people that do buy it and do use it
0:09:06and see what they like and what they don't like
0:09:08because then that will be something
0:09:09that we change for going forward.
0:09:11Like everything is very much up in the air about this.
0:09:16As of today, we are selling this notebook
0:09:19in a couple of days.
0:09:20I'm still not even sure of how much to charge for it.
0:09:22- Yes.
0:09:24like there is so this is very much like a we're taking a chance on this because it's something that we
0:09:30Believe in and we think could be really useful
0:09:33Because it's something like this way of journaling has been such a big difference for both of us
0:09:39Yeah that we think that it is possible for other people to get good use out of it
0:09:44But we just have decided to make a notebook for ourselves
0:09:47So like I would say the papers fantastic. Mm-hmm because I wouldn't have it any other way
0:09:53I was gonna say, if you want to make a really nice notebook, you work with Myke.
0:09:58Because here's the thing, right? I cannot say here is a notebook that I have made and it's the paper's bad.
0:10:05Because I am the pen guy. The design is slim-ish. It's 90 days worth.
0:10:12I actually don't know off the top of my head how many pages are in it, but it's a lot of pages.
0:10:16Something that's really important to me is it's a soft cover and it lays flat. You can lay that
0:10:21book flat at any point because it has this really cool spine system in it which is like
0:10:26these, the way it's all sewn together. We learned it's really hard to make things. We
0:10:33were rejected by multiple companies to make this notebook for reasons I never really got,
0:10:43just like no we don't want it. It's like but I want to give you money. But it was very
0:10:48interesting to like to go through this process I mean let alone trying to
0:10:55conceptualize the visual design of this I it was like I knew what I wanted but
0:11:00had no idea where to start I'm like working on all that was crazy and so we
0:11:04ended up for the actual manufacture of the thing because we were really
0:11:07struggling we worked with our friends Tom and Dan who run a great company
0:11:11called Studio Neat mm-hmm because they were creating a notebook which looks
0:11:16very much like this one called the tote book. So the first edition of the theme
0:11:20system journal is basically a bigger version of a notebook that they're
0:11:23making called the tote book. Which is if you like the look of this but don't want
0:11:27a journaling system you just want a notebook you should get tote books. I
0:11:30used a product called pan notebook as well which is amazing which is like a
0:11:34long notebook which is meant to sit under a keyboard between you and a
0:11:38keyboard it's wonderful. But the tote book was great they sent me it and I was
0:11:41like this is what I want.
0:11:45So we've been working with them
0:11:47and they've effectively we've had two layers
0:11:50of middle people.
0:11:52So it's been me and then Tom and Dan
0:11:54they are contacting 'cause these were made in China
0:11:56and then 'cause I found out products like this,
0:12:00we were turned down by multiple American companies.
0:12:02American companies would not take this.
0:12:05I don't know why.
0:12:05- I bet it's the fussiness of the manufacturing.
0:12:08- It might be.
0:12:09So we had to go for some very particular print and processes and assembly processes because
0:12:14I wanted it done in a very specific way and I think that was where we started to find
0:12:19problems.
0:12:20They say no one would really tell me why, they just wouldn't do it.
0:12:24Yeah well like the debossing I know we discussed is like a special process.
0:12:30Especially because it doesn't come through on the other side.
0:12:34Yeah so this is like on the cover of this, I keep touching this debossing.
0:12:38I keep touching the debossing because it's amazing and the brain logo is beautiful.
0:12:42But it is very deep and it is remarkable that it doesn't come through on the other side.
0:12:46Yeah.
0:12:47I know like that that ended up being so hard.
0:12:48Tom and Dan have made many products.
0:12:50They were flabbergasted by it.
0:12:52It's like I don't understand why they're doing this.
0:12:54But like so and then there's been other things like I don't know if I should tell this story
0:12:58but I want to.
0:12:59Okay.
0:13:00About the prototype.
0:13:01Yeah.
0:13:02Okay.
0:13:03Go.
0:13:04No.
0:13:05Go for it.
0:13:06that
0:13:07Everything was gonna be all good right the notebook before you manufacture a bunch that you're going to end up selling
0:13:14yep, you should probably have a prototype exactly and
0:13:16We had it made and it was sent directly to Tom and Dan the studio and because I said, oh can we have it sent to me?
0:13:25It's like our
0:13:26Prototypes are actually not a finished version. There's like a lot that's wrong with them
0:13:31So like but that's kind of the point
0:13:33All you're doing is kind of checking did they print it right and bind it right? It's like, okay, you know what you're looking for
0:13:39Have it sent to you you look at
0:13:41So they got it in and looked at it and it's like, okay. Everything's great. You just missed the page
0:13:45So when you print them, you just got to make sure you get this page in like you've somehow misaligned the files
0:13:51Even like just preparing and delivering the files. Mm-hmm
0:13:55It's a nightmare and like I've learned all these things right about how many actual pages and like, where does it start?
0:14:01When you're delivering a file you have to include the blank pages.
0:14:05You must include the pages that are not going to be printed for the final copy of a book.
0:14:09You can't say put two blank pages and then start. No, you must include the blank pages in the PDF.
0:14:14And so they were talking to the manufacturers and they were like,
0:14:19"Okay, we've done it now. You know, you've just got to get this one page in and we're all set.
0:14:25Everything else is great." And they're like, "Okay, how important is it?"
0:14:30And it's like well, kind of important because none of it makes sense anymore.
0:14:37Right, everything was offset by one because of the mission page.
0:14:40So especially the daily themes page at the back, you were answering the questions before you saw them.
0:14:46Right.
0:14:47Because it was all off by one. And it was like oh it's pretty important.
0:14:50It's like ah okay, because they made them all.
0:14:52Right, that's the thing when someone asks you the question, how much does this really matter?
0:14:58you know and the answer is we've we've printed we've done did a lot of them
0:15:03because we just thought it was going to be fine and we didn't expect you to come
0:15:06back with a picky change and it was you know they were really nice
0:15:09about it and it's the case of like all right so they had to recycle them and
0:15:13then and this was like another thing because it's like
0:15:15all right so they're being printed now we have we have the prototype it's not
0:15:19going to be long now but then they use all the paper right and
0:15:22there was no more paper right so we had to wait another five weeks for the paper
0:15:26this is how it's been this like two more months two more months two more months
0:15:30well like you know we're so close to so close and just never got there
0:15:33oh then customs oh my god we were supposed to sell this
0:15:37on our last episode that was the plan yeah and and
0:15:40by the way before that episode aired it was like for sure
0:15:44100 100 100 because they've they've been they've been mailed they've
0:15:48they're literally on their way in the air we know that they're we have a
0:15:52tracking number yep the tracking delivery date says
0:15:55Monday, we don't record until Friday.
0:15:58Cotton Bureau were gonna FedEx overnight me them and we were gonna be golden.
0:16:02Right. No. No. Stuck in customs for like
0:16:0612 days. I almost can't believe
0:16:10that we have it here and that they're ready to be shipped.
0:16:14It is like a dream realized and
0:16:17with every physical product
0:16:21I will never cease to be astounded by how long it takes
0:16:25from conception to there's one in my hand right now that that Myke delivered in person.
0:16:32Oh that one's not your one I have a rap one for you.
0:16:34Okay don't worry.
0:16:36But this one this one it says it says on the back that this one is version.
0:16:40It's first edition.
0:16:41Notebook number one.
0:16:42Oh yeah well I just wrote that down.
0:16:44Okay that's your handwriting.
0:16:46That's my handwriting nobody else gets that.
0:16:48It's it's like this tiny bit of insight into the thing that everybody knows which is like
0:16:53Someone launches a Kickstarter for a product that they want to make and then just as a regular consumer you think why is it taking?
0:16:59Three years to make this thing. They they already showed me something right in the Kickstarter
0:17:03It's like this is this is why it's like oh we have a concept for a notebook
0:17:07How hard could it possibly be we create a PDF like we you know?
0:17:11We brainstorm about what it should look like on the inside
0:17:13Surely we send a manufacturing company that PDF and then BAM notebooks exist
0:17:17No, no, no, not not have you won it in a particular way and it's it's crazy. My favorite thing that I learned is
0:17:24that the Chinese manufacturing facilities shut down for
0:17:29Chinese New Year. Yes. Yes. They were supposed to be on press
0:17:35Leading into Chinese New Year. Yeah, and we missed it by one day
0:17:41And then and then that was again more multiple weeks. Yeah, that was my
0:17:47favorite one I was like wait what do you mean the factory's closed for a
0:17:53while and that we missed it by a single day and like it's Chinese New Year.
0:17:58There were a lot of those conversations where at a certain point it just became a thing I knew like but it was kind of
0:18:04funny because like Tom would explain it to me and then I would explain it to you
0:18:08and it was like it's this weird chain of events. Yeah and I also imagine that the
0:18:12person in China is like why do I have to explain Chinese New Year to you?
0:18:16- Yeah, like every single time.
0:18:18- Everybody's confused by it.
0:18:21But it finally exists, it is gorgeous, it is high quality.
0:18:26- We are at like, this is no joke,
0:18:29very limited quantities, purposefully.
0:18:32And then there's this other whole question of,
0:18:34I don't know when we're gonna have more.
0:18:36Because if we wanna make changes,
0:18:40it might take as long as it took the first time.
0:18:43Right, like this is very much like,
0:18:45we really believe in this and our,
0:18:50I mean our goal is like this will be a thing, right?
0:18:53That like the theme system journal will be a product
0:18:55that is available all the time.
0:18:57Like that's the goal.
0:18:58- Yes.
0:18:59- Like, but we need to make sure that it works.
0:19:02- Yeah, it's like, I keep thinking of this as,
0:19:08as like product one of Cortex brand that it was,
0:19:11it's like the first-- - This is why we did it.
0:19:12Yeah, it's the first thing that really started the conversations about maybe we need to do a company to manufacture this sort of stuff.
0:19:20We've ended up rolling out the subtlety and the cortex hoodie and all of these other things first, but that's why this is like product zero and it's here.
0:19:30So I'm very happy about that, but we...
0:19:32I'm very nervous.
0:19:33Well, yeah. So here's the thing, here's the thing, listeners. Genuinely.
0:19:38It is not a sales tactic of like, "Oh, there's limited numbers that you have to buy right
0:19:43now."
0:19:44What we're looking for is people who are really going to be like beta testers for this journal.
0:19:51We're looking for people, you're going to buy this journal, you're going to use it,
0:19:55and you're going to send us back feedback about what do you like, what don't you like,
0:20:01what are you using it for, maybe you're doing something unexpected with it, maybe you're
0:20:05using it in exactly the way that you would think from Cortex.
0:20:07just want these in the hands of people who are going to be using them and sending feedback to us.
0:20:14So that's why it is this beta product and I'm also a little nervous about it finally going out in the
0:20:22real world but I have to say not that nervous because it is amazing to hold in my hands.
0:20:26I'm very picky, there's a couple of things I will change. I've already seen some stuff that I want to
0:20:30change but I will not say what they are. I have a guess I'll mention after the show.
0:20:35I am incredibly happy with the overall production
0:20:39of this product, in so much that I'm happy to sell it.
0:20:42The reason we have them here now,
0:20:44is we were not definitely gonna put these on sale.
0:20:46I needed to see it to make my final decision
0:20:49on whether we were selling them or not.
0:20:51We may have well have just been like,
0:20:52all right, that didn't work, right?
0:20:54Let's start again.
0:20:55- Yeah, I was very clear
0:20:57when we started these conversations
0:20:59that I wanted to imbue Myke
0:21:02with the ultimate veto power over the notebook.
0:21:05I cannot make a bad notebook.
0:21:09- Right, no matter what happens,
0:21:11if Myke is not happy with this product,
0:21:13even if we'd spent a year on it,
0:21:15like it still wouldn't have happened.
0:21:17So I am also very happy to know
0:21:20that you are happy to send these out to the world.
0:21:21- I'm very happy.
0:21:22So cortexmerch.com.
0:21:24- Cortexmerch.com.
0:21:25- There are pictures,
0:21:26you'll be able to see all of the different sections.
0:21:30Cotton Bureau have taken some wonderful photos for us.
0:21:32So you'll be, and you'll be able to see
0:21:33just how wonderful the debossing is, go and get it.
0:21:37Like, there's really not a lot of them.
0:21:40Like it's a small amount.
0:21:42And if you do buy one, please let us know.
0:21:45Business@cortexbrand.com is the email address.
0:21:48Like when you get it, I wanna know how you're using them.
0:21:50They are in stock now,
0:21:52so they'll be shipping immediately, basically.
0:21:54It's not like when we do a lot of our clothing stuff
0:21:57where it has to be made.
0:21:58You could have one within days of hearing this
0:22:01if you buy one now.
0:22:02So just in time for July?
0:22:05- Yeah, it's just in time for the summer season.
0:22:08- It's the time of, Q3's about to begin.
0:22:11So we at least hit the start of a quarter.
0:22:13- Okay, you and your Qs.
0:22:14No one thinks in terms of Qs.
0:22:15- Look, this is how it, look, the rest of the world
0:22:18works in the quarters of the calendar, right?
0:22:21July's about to begin, perfect time.
0:22:24If maybe you wanna set a new half yearly theme,
0:22:28go buy a theme system journal.
0:22:29- Cortexmerch.com.
0:22:31dot com.
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0:24:12So there was a kind of, we had a little bit of an in-joke going into this episode about
0:24:16the fact that we, and again we haven't even mentioned it, we're sitting around a table
0:24:20right now, we're in San Jose California, it's WWDC week and we just spent a third of the
0:24:26episode talking about something completely different which was a thing that we realised
0:24:30last time because it was kind of funny where it was like well because we had this we had
0:24:34like two plans right plan one was we were going to have all of the theme system journal
0:24:38stuff done the week before great or I'll just give the journal to you now because you've
0:24:44not seen it until right at this moment so but it was kind of funny or it's like well
0:24:49that means we will start our annual WWDC episode not even referencing it.
0:24:56Myke let's be honest what's more important the thing WWDC or the birth of a new
0:25:03theme system that can improve people's lives.
0:25:05Exactly. What's the software gonna do?
0:25:08IOS. What's it done for anyone?
0:25:10More like Shmaios.
0:25:13So we watched the keynote together on Monday, there was a lot of stuff.
0:25:19Mm-hmm.
0:25:20Like a lot of stuff.
0:25:22You got your dark mode, how do you feel?
0:25:25You got what you wanted, that was what you wanted, you were very upset beforehand thinking
0:25:31you weren't going to get it.
0:25:32No, no, no, no, no, no.
0:25:33You were very upset, I agree.
0:25:34No, no, no, no, no.
0:25:35I think you can roll back the tape and it's, was I upset?
0:25:38No.
0:25:39I would say- Are you sure?
0:25:40No, listen to my words, I refused to get emotionally invested in Dark Mode, which is what you were
0:25:49trying to do in that spoiler-tastic episode of the show previously.
0:25:57You were trying to get my hopes up so that they could be dashed upon the shore of WWDC.
0:26:04But they weren't.
0:26:05You got it.
0:26:06We did get Dark Mode.
0:26:07We got Dark Mode.
0:26:08I mean it's kind of what you would want it to be really. You can turn it on from Control Center,
0:26:12you can set it on a timer. I think you can, I think it's possible to enable it with a shortcut.
0:26:17And it just turns things from white to black. And a lot, it looks like a lot of Apple's UI,
0:26:23not all of it, which is interesting, but a lot of it is going to be completely black. So the pixels
0:26:28look off, which is great on an OLED phone. But they also have some apps where it's kind of just
0:26:33which is like a dark gray, but I'm really excited about this.
0:26:37I would expect, I probably run my phone in this all the time
0:26:40'cause any app that has a dark mode, I enable the dark mode
0:26:45because I just prefer that to piercing white light
0:26:48all the time.
0:26:49- Yeah, as always with anything,
0:26:52the devil is always in the details.
0:26:54What I'm curious to see is if they do the option
0:26:57for light sensitivity for switching back and forth
0:27:00between light mode and dark mode,
0:27:02because some apps do that and there's a,
0:27:05to promote my ever favorite OmniFocus,
0:27:08has a fantastic feature which allows you
0:27:10to set the threshold of what kind of brightness
0:27:12you think it should switch between,
0:27:13between dark and light. - I did not know it did that.
0:27:15That's kind of fascinating.
0:27:16- And the way I have it set is to be in dark mode
0:27:21unless the brightness is set to 100%
0:27:24to then switch to light mode.
0:27:26And the way that that ends up working is it's in dark mode
0:27:28unless I'm standing outside and then it's light mode.
0:27:32So I don't know if iOS will do something like that, but I do know, and the thing I like about being at WWDC is to poke developers for some of the details.
0:27:39Like, "Hey, hey, what are they telling you in those labs? You know, you gotta give me the good stuff here. Let me know what they're pushing."
0:27:45And the thing I was happy to hear is that they are pushing that whatever apps have a dark mode should follow the system status.
0:27:54that this is the way Apple wants it to be.
0:27:56That this will be not just a toggle for the interface,
0:28:00but apps should also follow suit.
0:28:02That if you've hit dark mode, they will be dark mode as well.
0:28:05Which I'm very happy about.
0:28:07And yeah, obviously I think it's way overdue.
0:28:10And I think it's totally an accessibility feature for a lot of people.
0:28:14And I'm very happy it's here.
0:28:18There were a couple of moments in the keynote,
0:28:20and dark mode was one of them where it felt like,
0:28:22Are they talking directly to Cortex?
0:28:25Because it wasn't...
0:28:26There was no moment more than that.
0:28:28No, no, no. Before we even get there, the thing with Dark Mode is like,
0:28:33"Oh, it wasn't just Dark Mode as a feature, it was... they had a whole introduction video."
0:28:39To Dark Mode, yeah.
0:28:40Yeah, there was an introduction video to Dark Mode and even though I did not want to get my hopes up,
0:28:47hopes up. I felt extraordinarily confident that Dark Mode was coming with that absolutely
0:28:56gorgeous opening animation that they did for WWDC. I have to say I watched that thing just
0:29:03totally hypnotized so that like they were... It was like neon emoji. Yeah it was they were
0:29:10pulling some perspective tricks that were really well done but yeah it's like neon emoji
0:29:14against a dark background but the emoji were clearly being rendered in 3D as well so they
0:29:21were just doing like this beautiful slow movements of one emoji to another. Honest to God it
0:29:26was one of the most just beautiful animations I've seen in a long time and I kept wondering
0:29:31I was like my god like it was last year or the year before they had a really beautiful
0:29:39fingerprint animation that they did which was like a transition between a regular fingerprint
0:29:42to a digital fingerprint and it really struck me as like god whoever did that
0:29:46is an amazing animator I was like I wonder if they just gave that guy the
0:29:50whole thing they're like please do this opening animation right like you know
0:29:53you nailed it but so when I was watching that I was like I I'm picking up what
0:29:58you're putting down WWDC right like I this is obviously there's dark mode
0:30:03coming and now you're talking you're talking straight to me so I'm very happy
0:30:07happy that it's finally here.
0:30:08I want to get maps out of the way because like I have one word in my notes, it's just
0:30:14maps in all caps like we have a theory that there's like somebody somewhere inside of
0:30:22Apple listened to this show and decided to give maps the amount of time that got on stage
0:30:26which was way more than I would have expected before.
0:30:31Did you get what you were looking for with maps?
0:30:36I mean yeah another reason I like coming here is being able to watch the show
0:30:42like with other people and you and I really did have a total freak out when
0:30:46when it became clear how much they were actually going to talk about maps that
0:30:52it wasn't it wasn't just a little like oh we've improved and and that that
0:30:55really was like are you talking straight to me WWDC?
0:30:59They brought somebody out onto the stage and everything.
0:31:02Yeah there was a demo on stage.
0:31:04- Like it wasn't even just like,
0:31:06oh we've done something with the Maps app.
0:31:08It's like no, here's somebody to come
0:31:09and show you all about it.
0:31:10- There was a demo on stage.
0:31:12They demoed several features of the new Maps app
0:31:16and I have to say I was very impressed.
0:31:18I was genuinely enthralled during the entire
0:31:22Maps section. - I'm sure you were.
0:31:25Somebody had to be.
0:31:26- Oh god damn it, Myke, no, look.
0:31:28Like aside from, it was everything I dreamed of.
0:31:34It was great. They introduced collections.
0:31:38So you can have like little collections of places on maps, which is one of,
0:31:41aside from offline maps,
0:31:42the only other feature of Google maps are really like use and love. Okay.
0:31:46Now like I'm already losing Myke cause he's so bored. But listeners,
0:31:50there's a thing that I want to point out that I feel like everybody missed and
0:31:55I've heard people like poo pooing it.
0:31:58People missed it. I just don't think people.
0:31:59No, no Myke. Myke.
0:32:01So they demoed what looked like Street View on the stage.
0:32:06- Yeah, that was pretty cool.
0:32:07- It was very cool.
0:32:08- It's called Look Around.
0:32:09- Yes, yeah, Look Around.
0:32:10- Look Around the Street View.
0:32:12- Yes, yes.
0:32:13Street Spy.
0:32:17You know, like yeah.
0:32:18- Road Eyes.
0:32:19- Yeah, Road Eyes.
0:32:21(laughing)
0:32:22- It's good, that's really good.
0:32:24So when I tried to talk to people about maps here at WWDC
0:32:28and they were remarkably uninterested,
0:32:30I was getting back a wall of like,
0:32:33oh wow, a Street View, welcome to 2007.
0:32:35You must be so impressed.
0:32:36But here's the thing, listen, listen listeners,
0:32:38go back and watch that actual demo
0:32:41because I am convinced that they,
0:32:44like they showed more than what you think it was.
0:32:46That was not what Google is doing
0:32:48where they're taking pictures of the street
0:32:50and morphing between them as you go down the street.
0:32:53That was a fly through of a 3D render of the street
0:32:57that had been textured with the photographs.
0:33:00And that's hugely impressive.
0:33:02- They call it a 3D experience.
0:33:04- Okay, so they have listed it on the website.
0:33:06- Yeah, they let you pan 360 degrees
0:33:08to move down the streets.
0:33:09- Okay, I feel very vindicated.
0:33:11- Yeah, you got what you were looking for.
0:33:13- Yeah, because it's like,
0:33:14this is the thing we were discussing last time.
0:33:17Like Apple's building a 3D map of the whole world.
0:33:20- For AR.
0:33:21- Yeah, for AR, which we all know is really
0:33:24a prelude to the glasses, all this AR stuff.
0:33:27What's the big deal about AR?
0:33:29It's not about this. It's all about a future product.
0:33:31It's not about holding up your phone.
0:33:32They just want it to be ready for when they strap it to your face.
0:33:35And the 3D map of the world is part of that.
0:33:37And then also for any autonomy projects that might be in the works, right?
0:33:40It's still useful for that.
0:33:41So I felt like you've shown it, like you're showing this thing that you've made.
0:33:46And I'm probably the only person in the world who checked this.
0:33:49But immediately after the keynote was over,
0:33:51do you know what the first thing I did was, Myke?
0:33:53I opened up the Maps app and they released two new states in the map.
0:33:59They released Arizona and New Mexico and it makes me laugh so hard because they're literally following the exact same release pattern that American Truck Simulator has so far done.
0:34:09Which was California, Nevada, then Arizona and New Mexico.
0:34:15Listen, if you're listening to this, if you're on the Maps team, you have to release Oregon next.
0:34:20Because that's the next one that came out for American Truck Simulator.
0:34:23And then if you do that, I'll take that as a sign. I know you're listening to me, Apple Maps team.
0:34:28What is it, like a sign from inside?
0:34:30Like it's like a sign of life?
0:34:31Yeah, it's 100% a sign from inside.
0:34:33But yeah, the Arizona and New Mexico maps have been updated to be their new mapping system.
0:34:37I refuse to believe that's a coincidence.
0:34:39I just, that's wild.
0:34:41Yeah, but yeah, so anyway, new maps rolling out they said by the end of the year,
0:34:44and selected countries by next year.
0:34:46So I was very excited. I was very excited and enthralled through the whole section of the maps.
0:34:51I look forward to annual updates at WWDC about maps every time now.
0:34:55I want to continue running through the things that you cared about before we get to the stuff that's...
0:35:04That's interesting? Is that what you mean to say, Myke?
0:35:07Before we get to the stuff that's a little bit more typically discussed...
0:35:11Was it Apple Watch faces next? Oh no, you have one more thing, right? What was the two things that you came with?
0:35:17It was maps, and the Do Not Disturb type stuff.
0:35:23is where I knew that the conference wasn't actually speaking directly to me
0:35:27when we got basically nothing as I fully expected in terms of notifications
0:35:31there's the silence unknown callers thing which is great but yes as I
0:35:37expected I think Apple feels like they've nailed it with notifications
0:35:40managers and I expect to be sad for the next five years in a row of WWDC stuff
0:35:45but you know that's that was expected. Let me test your sadness. Okay. Apple
0:35:50Watch faces. Now when we watched the presentation you were very upset. Yeah
0:35:58people were laughing at me in the room. Yeah but I know since you've like will
0:36:03have had a little bit of time to look at them. Yeah. So we've been playing around
0:36:08with them on some of our friends watches who've installed the betas. What do you
0:36:13what do you think about the changes to the Apple Watch stuff? Yeah I haven't had
0:36:17a lot of time to play around with it but I have two thoughts. One of which is, at least
0:36:23from what I've seen, I think the new California face is actually a pretty good looking watch
0:36:27face. I don't think it's what I'm necessarily going to use but I think like oh this is one
0:36:32that looks like a nice watch face.
0:36:34I would also say that it surprised me how nice I think that looks.
0:36:39And it looks much better in person than it did on the screen. I was quite struck by seeing
0:36:44it in person to think like oh that looks much better than it does is like a
0:36:48gigantic blow up behind Tim Cook's head it's like it's too big on the screen it
0:36:51doesn't look right it makes me think of the fancy watches that you wear like
0:36:55that California watch face well yeah I mean I don't have a California dial face
0:37:00but I understand your point yeah like they are clearly trying to make watch
0:37:05faces that look like real watch faces which I don't I don't really have a
0:37:10a problem with that so long as they have utility to them and I will say they seem to really
0:37:16show us on stage this time compared to previous years that they were debuting these new faces
0:37:23but were also finding ways to try and make sure that you could get a lot of complications
0:37:27on them even if they just looked like a color so like there were some of them that looked
0:37:31like they were just attempt like really just trying to be pretty but you could also then
0:37:36put complications on those watch faces as well and it was slightly adapt the look of
0:37:40it. So it really did seem like something that they were trying to put some focus on. Like
0:37:47we want to give you really good looking watch faces but not at the complete like lack of
0:37:54giving you information as well. Like letting people kind of choose how much they want to
0:37:58see.
0:37:59from seeing them in person they've sort of standardized on a concept of we can have these
0:38:08like gradient watch faces but you can also take that and shrink it down to a circle and
0:38:14they've established that there's the four corners for complications.
0:38:16And that is not what they did before right so like you've had like the picture face or
0:38:20like the kaleidoscope face and so that's what you get right you can't amend it you can't
0:38:26it more useful in any way but this time it feels like that they have put a
0:38:30little bit more work into that and I think it's because in the previous
0:38:34version of watchOS they actually found a shape for the complications didn't exist
0:38:39before the corner ones yes yeah they're everywhere yeah they seem to have
0:38:43decided that this is this is like the future of complications these corner
0:38:47ones or you have a bunch of squares right or you have a bunch of squares you
0:38:51know it's so see if you go with like a circular face of with some corner
0:38:55complications around it that kind of stretch a little bit more of the screen
0:38:57and make use of the different shape that the Apple watch has now right with the
0:39:01newer version or you just roll as much as you can on the screen at one time and
0:39:06like make it modular. Yeah so I can't say I'm really thrilled with the new watch
0:39:12faces but the California one looks nice and the thing that probably will matter
0:39:17to me the most is it seems like on a number of the watch faces they've
0:39:22introduced a... it's not a monochrome mode but there is an option where you can
0:39:27force there to be fewer colors. Which is one of my biggest issues
0:39:32with the Infograph modular face that I use which is just like depending on what
0:39:36complications you have it's so... it's clown vomit to go back to
0:39:41the very dawn of the show right like there's too many colors. Some of them can
0:39:45be monochrome some of them are monochrome with an accent color. Yeah but
0:39:48they have some modes where you can turn it down a little bit.
0:39:52Because like some of the modular faces, if it was all one color you wouldn't be able to read anything.
0:39:55Because you wouldn't know where to go, right? Like you need some kind of like header or an indication of like this is a different thing to the thing above it.
0:40:01So I think they've actually done a pretty interesting job there.
0:40:04Again, I'll be curious to play with it in person because yeah, on the previous monochrome modes they did an astounding job of choosing the exact wrong thing to highlight with the colors in a way that I found infuriating.
0:40:14But I can imagine using like a toned down version of my current watch face and being happier with the face on my watch
0:40:22Every year I feel like something happens at WWDC and I'm like before I've used it
0:40:29I make some kind of proclamation. Okay, and a lot of the time
0:40:33Doesn't work
0:40:36My proclamation this year is around the new reminders app. Okay, I
0:40:41Think I think it might be enough for me
0:40:44Really? Yeah. Have you seen it in person at all? Very little.
0:40:50Okay. Based upon what Apple have shown and what I have seen, it does all I do with Todoist.
0:41:00I have projects, so I have lists that I put things in. Apple just has different lists, right?
0:41:06and I can set due dates and stuff and it will remind me and it has a view for
0:41:15what I have today and what I have scheduled and I can set up some smart
0:41:22lists like that's kind of it it has smart list capability it has smart list
0:41:25capability yeah I think that these are well these are the ones that Apple
0:41:29created right so you have flagged scheduled and today mm-hmm and I think I
0:41:34I need to see how far in advance "Sheduled" will take me.
0:41:38Like is it every scheduled event?
0:41:40And if it is, maybe that's not so useful
0:41:41'cause I do like a seven day view.
0:41:43But to be honest, all I need to do is scroll seven days
0:41:45and I'm done.
0:41:46But some of the extra little bits that it can do
0:41:50make it very interesting to me.
0:41:52So like for example, if I say,
0:41:56remind, if like, so say I set a reminder
0:42:00and I attach you to it.
0:42:02The next time I open up an iMessage to you,
0:42:04get a notification about the reminder that I have set for you. That is such an amazing feature.
0:42:11I did think that was just that was so cool as an idea. It's little bits like that which are very
0:42:19interesting to me and like you can... I'm sorry not to interrupt you but I just realized like a dummy
0:42:25how incredibly great that is specifically for you right it's like you your whole life is talking to
0:42:32people. Yeah the only issue for me there was like a lot of that
0:42:35conversation happens in slack. Mm-hmm but I still think iMessage would catch it a
0:42:39bunch. But it would still be useful because then if I could still then go
0:42:42over to slack right like if I needed to but like you it from looking at stuff
0:42:47that you can even have like sub lists right we've been a list there's there's
0:42:52like a lot of little things which seem really nice and it looks like it's
0:42:56nicely made and I'm just wondering if something with more system integration
0:43:01could be could be more useful to me. And it certainly is better looking than
0:43:06Todoist. It certainly is better looking than Todoist especially in dark mode. So
0:43:10I'm thinking about it like and I want to give it a go. You should totally give it a
0:43:14go yeah. Because I think that I love, well no, I love notes so much if they have
0:43:21done to remind us what they did to notes I think it's gonna work fine for me. Hmm.
0:43:27And I would like to give it a go. Okay it's something that once once I get on
0:43:31the beta train which I'm not going for beta one this time because everyone I
0:43:35know that's used it has told me not to do that but last year it was it seemed
0:43:39to be fine yeah I've seen a lot of extraordinarily buggy devices I mean I
0:43:43may sacrifice a device to it but it won't be one that I use every day like I
0:43:48have an older iPad at home like I think like the 10.5 inch or something like that
0:43:52I might I might kind of just throw it on there and see what it's like but I think
0:43:56reminders is is I think it might be in my future I really want to give it a go
0:44:02because I'm finding myself being much happier with a simple system and it
0:44:12would be I think really great to be able to use a system like this one where it
0:44:17can also get hooks into the system that the other places can't like for example
0:44:21using Siri to set reminders of Todoist is a nightmare because Siri fails to
0:44:27understand the word Todoist for the most of the time but otherwise I could just
0:44:31say oh hey assistant remind me at such-and-such to do this and it's just
0:44:37it's just done then and I think I would actually quite like to do that but have
0:44:41not been able to do it previously because I could not get it to work
0:44:45reliably for me I mean and then when you start thinking about the fact that
0:44:49reminders is a system app and then shortcuts exist and then all the things
0:44:53that I might be able to do there but it's gonna have real good hooks into
0:44:57shortcuts I didn't even think of that but yes yeah so I'm really I'm very keen
0:45:04this is the thing that like I was wondering how I would feel about
0:45:08reminders and I'm getting a bit drawn to it like as well just the design mm-hmm
0:45:13very nice hmm it looks really nice you know I could see people playing around
0:45:18it. I've seen the stuff that Apple's been posting. That is the thing that I'm really gonna give a go
0:45:24at. It has a lot of nice location stuff as well, and the UI is pretty good. I've got my eye on that
0:45:31one. I'll be curious to hear how that goes. Hello freelancers. Do you want to save 192 hours of your
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0:47:24and all of Relay FM. Can we talk about iPadOS? I can't believe iPadOS exists as a thing.
0:47:32what a way for Apple to put themselves on the hook in a way that I think it's so
0:47:38interesting they had no need to name it as a thing that then people can
0:47:44specifically say oh they didn't update iPad OS this year. I'll say I will say
0:47:49nobody was asking for this there have been people asking for this for a while
0:47:52but this was not a thing going into WWDC. Yeah if I was one of yeah if we were one
0:47:57of these crazy podcasts that does drafts or predictions yeah Ricky pics yeah
0:48:02and all this sort of nonsense.
0:48:04You know, and we could pick a thousand things to predict for WWDC. I don't think
0:48:12either of us would have put on a list of a thousand things, oh they'll officially
0:48:16split iOS and have this iPad version. I feel totally blindsided by that.
0:48:22It's one of those things though that when you start looking at everything
0:48:25together, like iPadOS and Project Catalyst, which is what we were calling
0:48:31marzipan before which is iPad apps on the Mac. I'm gonna have a very hard time
0:48:35with that name. Catalyst. Yeah, I cannot remember. Catalyst for Change, Grey, I love it. I think it's a
0:48:41great name. I think it is a good name but marzipan is just so in my head. I hated the name though.
0:48:48I'm just happy they gave it a name. Yes. Because it was very, knowing Apple, it'd be like
0:48:53oh it's just iPad apps on the Mac. So that's not a name. Right, yeah. You've
0:48:56described it it's not a name but then just giving the iPad its own alright
0:49:05this is okay so this is the complication of it in case you don't follow these
0:49:09things as closely as we do it is not a separate operating system like iOS and
0:49:15the Mac have a separate operating system this is a this is still iOS under the
0:49:19hood but it there are additional features I mean again the iPad has had
0:49:24additional features for a while the iPhone doesn't have but this is like
0:49:28putting a like you are putting a stake in the ground fork in the road one of
0:49:33those two things I would say they're putting themselves on the hook they are
0:49:37doing that like that they're basically saying alright we've been doing this for
0:49:42a while where we're making the iPad different we are now gonna say it has
0:49:45its own operating system and we're gonna move forward it's like so tvOS so the
0:49:50operating system runs on the TV that is also iOS yeah but they called it
0:49:54something else but what Apple have now done is every WWDC they need to say what
0:49:59they're doing on iPad OS in the same way they say what they're doing on TV OS
0:50:02which sometimes isn't a lot but yeah but it's always like they have to mention it
0:50:06there has to be something and you know if they have new screensavers for TV OS
0:50:10I'm always very happy right and and this way I feel very confident that we can
0:50:16expect going forward that there's going to be at least something each year.
0:50:22There has to be annual change otherwise you shouldn't have done this nobody was
0:50:27asking for it and if you would have kept it as it was I would have expected
0:50:31changes in two years time now you better show me next June what else is coming to
0:50:36the iPad. Yeah I mean my assumption which of course could be dashed on the rocks
0:50:40of WWDC but my assumption is they did this because they have some internal roadmap of
0:50:48here's what we expect the next four years to look like and they're extremely confident
0:50:53about hitting it for the changes that are coming because otherwise this would be madness
0:50:57to do it like this.
0:50:58- And then, I mean, they started it well
0:51:01because they have packed this full of stuff
0:51:06that people wanted.
0:51:09Like, massive changes to multitasking.
0:51:12More than I would have expected.
0:51:15You know, we were talking about like,
0:51:17oh, what we really want is to have instances of apps
0:51:21all over the place, right?
0:51:22Which is 100% what they've done.
0:51:24You can take any view of an application,
0:51:26turn it into a new window.
0:51:28You can have them paired with multiple different applications and you long press on an icon,
0:51:33you can see where they all are and you can go to the one you want.
0:51:35It is almost exactly what we are wanting.
0:51:38Like it's perfect.
0:51:39Right?
0:51:40I can't wait.
0:51:42Then you look at what they did to Safari.
0:51:45They've basically made a desktop version of Safari.
0:51:48And the difference here is it's not just saying show me desktop mode because then stuff doesn't
0:51:55work.
0:51:56Right?
0:51:57into websites where you have to with a mouse you would hover over it and it
0:52:01would pull down. Apple's doing this like crazy analysis of web pages to
0:52:05understand what hover states are. So when you tap on something it will bring down
0:52:10the hover thing. It won't navigate. Like they're doing like a bunch of wild
0:52:14stuffs like for example Google Docs. Oh yes but I have to say this might
0:52:20have been this might have been like a big moment of surprised face on Myke.
0:52:26I looked over at you and you looked shocked when they called out
0:52:30They called out Google Docs
0:52:31Yeah because I mean you know for anyone who listens to Myke shows you know there's like
0:52:35this annual how long is it going to be until Google Docs is updated problem
0:52:40And now Google Docs will work in Safari on iOS
0:52:45So this is you know what I just realized I use Chrome on all my iOS devices it's probably
0:52:49gonna have to change now
0:52:50Yeah I think that's that's gonna
0:52:51Or I just treat Safari like it's the Google Docs app
0:52:56I'll work it out.
0:52:56But they're doing a bunch of stuff to make sure
0:52:59that these full desktop web apps work on the iPad now,
0:53:04which is huge, right?
0:53:09The amount of work that they've had to put into this,
0:53:12it's gonna make a massive, massive difference
0:53:15to being able to get work done on the iPad,
0:53:19as well as as a downloads manager,
0:53:21so you can download files properly now.
0:53:24Right, like I know that this stuff, when we say it,
0:53:27it really does enforce the idea of like,
0:53:30you should use real compute type.
0:53:31But like, there are many advantages to using iOS.
0:53:36We've spoken about them for years.
0:53:38It's really great to see Apple just trying
0:53:41to close the gaps a little bit more.
0:53:43- Yeah, and I was really happy to see a bunch
0:53:45of those changes with Safari because it,
0:53:48it again addresses the very thing that I was saying
0:53:50I wish I could do last episode of being able
0:53:53to have multiple windows full of tabs. Multiple windows, multiple tabs, multiple projects.
0:53:59So you can have 50 instances if you wanted of notes and safari. You could just have infinite
0:54:06amounts of them. Yeah and the thing that I really like about this is it's going to solve
0:54:12a frustration that I currently have which is when I'm investigating various projects.
0:54:17I sort of always have like tabs open on random machines and now this allows me to further
0:54:23double down on the concept that my iPad is this research assistant and so you
0:54:29know long time listeners will know I love defining like places for an
0:54:33activity and now this just this 100% makes like the iPad is the research
0:54:39assistant and so like if I'm looking stuff up on the web for a project I
0:54:43should have my iPad in my hands and this way like that always just has the
0:54:48current state of open tabs for all of the projects that I'm working on so like
0:54:53I'm that was a when I got my hands on the first device running a beta that was
0:54:57like the very first thing I wanted it was like show me how I can make multiple
0:55:01Safari windows it's I'm really excited about the Safari stuff like in a way
0:55:08that I wouldn't have expected that I would be mmm but there are there are so
0:55:14many times when I'm trying to do a thing and now it's being able to have it fully
0:55:22understand or fully fight around the parts of the web that refuse to change
0:55:27it's it's basically deciding like is how but we're not giving in on this yeah if
0:55:32you're not gonna change around us who we're gonna force to change on you I
0:55:35like that yeah it's interesting to hear and I know yeah that always tends to be
0:55:40a like a weird constraint on iOS sometimes like oh right my bank's web
0:55:44page just doesn't work and I have to do this on the Mac and in theory now it
0:55:49will right like that's that's that that's what they're working for
0:55:53mouse and trackpad support is friggin wild so this was not announced in the
0:55:59keynote it is an accessibility feature so you have to turn on any accessibility
0:56:03settings what it does so you may have come across at some point in your life
0:56:08somebody you had an iPhone of a broken home button and there is this there is a
0:56:12system called assistive touch which puts a home button like a digital home
0:56:17button on the screen of the phone and you can set it up so you can tap it to
0:56:21use it as a home button and you can set up to have a bunch of actions like
0:56:24shortcuts assigned to it like lock the screen take a screenshot and this is for
0:56:27people who have limited mobility. What Apple have done is take this digital
0:56:32finger basically this big circle and you can plug in a USB mouse or connect one
0:56:38of a Bluetooth or a trackpad and effectively have a cursor on iOS. Now it
0:56:45It is a big gray circle, right?
0:56:49It is not perfect, but it really is a feature
0:56:52that is intended to not be the default way
0:56:56that people interact with these devices,
0:56:58but it is for people who require it
0:57:00for certain mobility reasons.
0:57:03I am one of those people.
0:57:06You know, we have spoken at length
0:57:08about repetitive strain injury on this show,
0:57:11and I have been, recently I've been,
0:57:14for a while I've been using my iPad in a stand.
0:57:18Stand I use is called the Clearlook stand.
0:57:20I will include a link in the show notes to the Amazon page
0:57:23'cause people always ask me
0:57:24and this is one that I feel happiest recommending.
0:57:27It is the best stand that I have used so far
0:57:29for an iOS device 'cause it can at a desk be at my eye height
0:57:34and I've not used a stand like that before
0:57:35and it remains stable when I tap it
0:57:37but now I don't need to worry about that
0:57:40because I will be able to connect a mouse
0:57:41'cause what I found I was still doing
0:57:43I have to lean forward sometimes to tap on stuff, but now I can sit back comfortably
0:57:47when I'm at my desk, I connect a Bluetooth mouse, I use my keyboard, then I can use my
0:57:53preferred device.
0:57:54I know I'm using it like an iMac at this point.
0:57:56I know this, right?
0:57:57The iMac is next to me still on my desk.
0:58:00But I love iOS.
0:58:02It's the platform that I enjoy and now I will be able to use it in a way that is most comfortable
0:58:08to me in certain circumstances.
0:58:10I bet this is going to be a really strange experience because like it was last year they
0:58:16introduced or it was the new iPad the ability to run it on an external monitor over USB-C
0:58:23and I don't use it but I did out of curiosity I just set it up one day to be like oh how
0:58:29does this work?
0:58:30I had forgotten about that.
0:58:32Oh had you?
0:58:34Yes. I could plug it into a monitor.
0:58:36Yeah you could plug it into a monitor because you don't need the iPad to actually physically
0:58:40touch the screen anymore. Well damn everything's changed. Now I'm thinking
0:58:46very differently about what computer I'm gonna buy next. Mmm interesting. Mmm you've
0:58:52got something to think about there. Something to think about because now in
0:58:56theory I only need one desk set up. I think about that. I need to think about
0:59:01that. Yeah like but that is whenever there's new stuff you always need to
0:59:05rethink what the situation is gonna be. Yeah it's like oh there's a new feature
0:59:09and iOS I need to rethink the entirety of Megaroffice. It's time to move. Yeah. But yeah I was just gonna say like I tried
0:59:18that once on the screen just to see it just to play around with it. Yeah. And I
0:59:22had just like such a surreal experience to see iPad on like iPad I was gonna say
0:59:28iPad OS but then iOS on this giant screen and I can imagine it would be a
0:59:34very surreal experience to do that and then also be able to control it with a
0:59:39keyboard and mouse because we have you know we have ten plus years of using
0:59:42iOS just with our fingers and you know if we're lucky as stylists and so yeah I
0:59:48just think that'd be an interesting experience to try it like that for the
0:59:51first time. Yeah I'm really I'm this is something I'm so excited about because
0:59:55the keynote came and went and it wasn't announced and I was a little bit bummed
0:59:58about it like because basically we'd heard about this for a while that it was
1:00:03something that Apple was testing and it was something that was really going to
1:00:08be a quality of life improvement for me yeah and so I was genuinely so pleased
1:00:13to see that it's something that exists and I will be able to get some genuine
1:00:19use out of it like I can't wait also I use here's the bridge keyboard now as
1:00:26well like intrigue like will they make a cousin version oh I could just take
1:00:31version because in theory you could do it now I mean the problem the problem is
1:00:36is at least for now, I think it's still gonna be
1:00:37a niche feature.
1:00:39My feeling would be that like eventually they may try
1:00:41and make this a little bit more widely supported
1:00:44in the system unless they have an accessibility thing.
1:00:46Like maybe they just wanna see like will people use this?
1:00:48We know this is a good accessibility feature,
1:00:50but will people use this?
1:00:51Because I think they're not the right way.
1:00:54I think it would have been a bad idea
1:00:56to be here's iPad OS, now you can use a mouse.
1:01:00- Yeah, I agree.
1:01:01From a messaging perspective,
1:01:03that would have been bad.
1:01:04But it is a feature which has genuine use.
1:01:07So adding it to the system is like, that's great.
1:01:10But maybe then just kind of tracking how people use it
1:01:13going forward is quite useful.
1:01:15The home screen has been changed quite significantly.
1:01:18You can now have way more apps on one screen
1:01:20and you can have widgets pinned to it.
1:01:22It's not massive change,
1:01:24but they have effectively the bare minimum
1:01:27that I would have wanted to see.
1:01:29- You've completely ignored the most massive change
1:01:32as far as I'm concerned in iPad OS,
1:01:34which is now when you take your iPad
1:01:37and you rotate it 90 degrees,
1:01:40the icons stay in the same place.
1:01:42- Yes.
1:01:43- There's none of this line shuffle anymore.
1:01:45- Which is fantastic.
1:01:46- I think it's six across at the top now
1:01:49and then when you rotate it,
1:01:50it stays as six across at the top.
1:01:52- The same as when you have them full screen
1:01:54and bring the widgets in.
1:01:55- Yeah, it just compresses them.
1:01:57Yes, which is so good.
1:02:00And finally, someone understanding like muscle memory
1:02:02is really important for the,
1:02:05you can't move icons around on people, that's madness.
1:02:08- I love the idea of having widgets just right there.
1:02:12I think that that's a great look, great thing to do.
1:02:14Keyboard shortcuts are being significantly enhanced
1:02:17and like I think you can like trigger shortcuts
1:02:21from a keyboard shortcut, which is kind of wild.
1:02:23There's like a bunch of amazing stuff happening
1:02:25with keyboard shortcuts.
1:02:27Apple Pencil latency, I know is the thing
1:02:29that you were really kind of like blown away by?
1:02:32- Yeah, so they mentioned in the keynote
1:02:36that they had the latency, they dropped it from,
1:02:38it was like 20 milliseconds to nine milliseconds.
1:02:41- Yeah.
1:02:42- Which I genuinely was completely blown away by
1:02:44because if I can remember, I think somewhere around like five
1:02:49gets to be the limit of human perception that like--
1:02:53- Oh, really?
1:02:54- Like your brain simply can't perceive the distance anymore.
1:02:56- So they are like nearly there.
1:02:58- Yeah.
1:02:58Wow, but like part of the reason I was blown away by it is that this is
1:03:03It just it felt like such an appley thing and I love it when they do this kind of thing where
1:03:09The latency on the Apple pencil already is as good as I could ever expect the least
1:03:15Everybody else's yeah, it's it's so much better. Oh
1:03:18only under the most
1:03:21Extreme of motions. Do I even notice that there's some kind of latency?
1:03:26It was so impressive already and it just,
1:03:30it didn't feel like an area where it was desperately
1:03:33calling out for, oh you guys need to fix it.
1:03:35And they're like, oh hey, we made it twice as fast,
1:03:39this thing that was already amazing,
1:03:40and we're pushing up against the limits
1:03:41of human perception. - We improved it
1:03:42by three milliseconds.
1:03:45Like, oh great, but it's like, no, we just cut it in half.
1:03:47Less than half, we just for funsies, I guess,
1:03:50really just to prove that we could do it, I suppose.
1:03:52- Yeah, and I just think, I think that that,
1:03:56It's great because it's those little things that you don't notice that make it feel more
1:04:02like you're just directly interacting with the device.
1:04:06That is like I'm moving and the line underneath the pencil is just like rock solid and it's
1:04:12there and I can't even if I'm going very fast get that line to move away from the pencil.
1:04:18So I was just impressed because I thought like well done Apple, I love seeing you do
1:04:22this kind of stuff where it's already amazing and you devote a bunch of
1:04:25engineering resources to a thing that nobody would have complained about but
1:04:29that makes the experience much better so that's why I was so impressed it's like
1:04:34I can't believe you guys did that as madness.
1:04:36Oh the text selection stuff has changed?
1:04:39I'm really intrigued to see how this ends up looking like all the gestures
1:04:43like the three finger pinching to copy and paste and yeah they've they've got
1:04:48rid of the magnifying glass you just you just drag the cursor around this is one
1:04:52of those things where it's like alright I want to see what this actually ends up being
1:04:57like.
1:04:58Yeah and I also have this feeling like we don't have the full picture of this yet because
1:05:02there's at least a time of recording it's a little bit unclear whether or not 3D touch
1:05:07has been removed from iOS entirely like it's a little bit unclear like what's happening
1:05:12exactly with this.
1:05:133D touch still works.
1:05:15Yes, but there's a question of...
1:05:17It looks like it is a possibility that the actual method in which it works right now
1:05:24where there is a physical interaction going on may go away.
1:05:29And then that could then expand it out to other devices if they don't actually 3D touch
1:05:34to perform the action anymore.
1:05:36So it's a bit unclear.
1:05:37Yeah, it's a bit unclear what's happening, but like 3D touch has a lot to do with text
1:05:41selection particularly on the iPhone as well.
1:05:43I just kind of wonder you know sometimes at WWDC you feel like you get half of
1:05:49the story. Because you get a preview of September of them not trying to show you
1:05:52anything. Yeah and there's and there's one there's one thing that I think
1:05:55really backs up a totally like hashtag Myke was right thing from the previous
1:05:59episode which is one you got the App Store for the App Watch. The App
1:06:04Store for the Apple Watch and then I have I've heard from a couple developers
1:06:09now that again like inside the halls of WWDC they're really focused on like hey guys make
1:06:15sure your apps are independent on the watch right so I think really backs up your concept
1:06:21that they might be doing an independent or semi-independent watch very soon.
1:06:26It feels like this is way too heavy for us to get into but they created this new UI system
1:06:33so developers can make these things called Swift UI and it's like a carrot and stick
1:06:37thing they want people to move to the system so they're offering them the
1:06:40ability to make watch apps better actually very clever the way that
1:06:44they're doing this but that is like they know it's gonna take everyone a little
1:06:49while I think because they're gonna have to a lot of developers will need to be
1:06:52also learning a new operate like a new language to write their apps in so I
1:06:58think it's like hey just might you just start doing this and then I may it might
1:07:01even be right like that in September they debut an Apple Watch which is
1:07:07intended to be even more. Yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised now based on
1:07:11what I've heard from developers I mean yeah it is way beyond the scope of this
1:07:15show but I have to say my like of all the things actually the the announcement
1:07:20that I am kind of the most interested in is some of the Swift UI stuff in the way
1:07:23that it feels like oh this is this is finally what they've been working
1:07:26towards for a number of years with Swift. It's super interesting though because so
1:07:30we spoke about, right, catalyst, right, the idea of bringing iPad apps to the Mac.
1:07:34And I'm really excited about this because there are, like I said last time,
1:07:39apps that I use all the time on my iPad that don't exist on my Mac and I now
1:07:45feel even more convinced because Apple basically have said it, make good iPad
1:07:49apps so you have good Mac apps. Yeah. They are being very clear about this now.
1:07:54That's very clearly what's happening. They've said it. So like that's it's gonna make the iPad
1:07:58ecosystem far richer than before it's probably why they created iPad OS right
1:08:03there they've deemed the operating system iPad OS now because they want
1:08:06everyone to make really good iPad apps a lot of the changes that they've made
1:08:11clearly to enforce that until like add some consistency between the two
1:08:15platforms but then they come up with this thing called Swift UI which is like
1:08:18the kind of the idea of it ultimately is the app that you make can be represented
1:08:24on all of the platforms. So they have these multiple projects running. So currently right
1:08:29now you make an iPad app, you can put it on the Mac, maybe next year you can do with the
1:08:31iPhone, put it on the Mac. But in a couple of years time, it's probably gonna be like,
1:08:35now forget all of that. Make a Swift UI app and just make this one app and it runs on
1:08:41everything. Because it's this whole different way of interpreting the way the code's written.
1:08:46It's just interesting to see them doing multiple things that could ultimately have a very similar
1:08:51outcome.
1:08:52it's one of those times where you can very clearly see what they're working towards.
1:08:55And I like that they're doing it this way, like they started last year by showing off
1:08:59what would become catalyst as a way to get people thinking. I think Apple is at the moment
1:09:05very much positioning themselves for their future
1:09:09publicly in a way that they haven't in quite a while and that makes me excited
1:09:15especially when the iPad is so heavily featured in that.
1:09:19Yeah, and I think that made me smile is when they talk about this new Swift UI stuff like this new way to write apps
1:09:25They even mentioned like oh it works across all our platforms even the Apple TV, right? And again, it makes me just think of like
1:09:31Like this conservation project and like here is what we really want
1:09:36You're gonna write apps in just this way and then it's gonna work across all of our devices
1:09:42And I also think it must be on the roadmap as well like anything that's coming down the future, right?
1:09:47Like they're just like this is the way it's gonna be and like I think that's great because it makes all of the various app ecosystems stronger.
1:09:57And it also just from a company perspective gives them an incredible amount of power for any future projects that they want to bring out.
1:10:05If like they can keep it still working with Swift UI which I'm sure is exactly their plan.
1:10:10It's like bam they can launch a new product and basically have a whole bunch of apps that can run on it already.
1:10:16Yep, and they've done it, they've debuted it in the perfect way, right?
1:10:19Because we have a bunch of friends who make apps and they hate the way that the watchkit stuff works.
1:10:24Like the way you currently make watch apps.
1:10:26So Apple have made it that if you want to make a really good watch app, a native watch app, just use SwiftUI.
1:10:32Yeah.
1:10:32It's like, all right, well, I'm gonna have to learn it now then.
1:10:34Yeah.
1:10:34Every time I go to WWDC, I always feel like there's something that I always like to ask the developers about because I, you know, I don't have the expertise to evaluate it myself.
1:10:43Swift UI has been that thing for me at this conference every time I'm talking to anybody who touches code
1:10:48I'm like, oh if you looked at Swift UI, what do you think and everybody really loves it and thinks it's a great idea
1:10:53So it feels like this is this is totally the future of how apps are gonna be made
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1:12:36Let's talk about the Mac Pro.
1:12:38Oh yeah?
1:12:39Yeah let's talk about the Mac Pro.
1:12:41Why do you want to talk about the Mac Pro?
1:12:42I just want to get your opinion on the Mac Pro.
1:12:45This is a horrifically powerful machine.
1:12:49Well if you spec it up it's going to be horrifically powerful.
1:12:52Okay the machine that has the ability to be horrifically powerful.
1:12:56Do you think it is a good looking computer?
1:13:02Okay, right, okay. So this is the first thing. Mac Pro comes out, it's up on the stage, and
1:13:12you know, we were watching, I think we were both like, kind of cocking our heads to the
1:13:19sides.
1:13:20That's a thing that you've got there?
1:13:22Yeah, and I think it is fair to say it's a bit of an ugly duckling.
1:13:26I appreciate it.
1:13:29I do not think it looks good.
1:13:32I have heard from people that have actually gone in
1:13:34and developers could go in and see it.
1:13:36- Yeah.
1:13:37- And people say that like in person, it looks pretty cool.
1:13:41- I can believe that it looks better in person
1:13:43than it does in the same way like the watch faces
1:13:45look better in person than they do with demo on stage.
1:13:47- But like let's just get this on the record.
1:13:49The Mac Pro, the cylindrical Mac Pro,
1:13:52that thing looked awesome.
1:13:54- Right.
1:13:54- But it was terrible.
1:13:55was a beautiful piece of garbage. So let's you know it is very clear that what they've
1:13:59decided to do is make something that looks you know but works great you would expect
1:14:05right like that's the plan. There's a weird way in which I almost wonder. Did they make
1:14:13it look a little ugly? Like what I would want to do is I would want to get one of the Apple
1:14:18designers who worked on it and give them a little bit of sodium pentothal and be like
1:14:21- Listen.
1:14:22- I don't know what that is, but I'm terrified
1:14:23that you've pulled that out.
1:14:25(laughing)
1:14:27- Like, I wanna know, I wanna know what's in the deep
1:14:30recesses of your mind, and not the Apple PR spin of like,
1:14:33oh, it's a beautiful product.
1:14:35Like, there's a way in which I wonder if it's almost
1:14:39a little bit of a signal that like, it's very functional,
1:14:44it's not a gorgeous machine, and that is almost a way
1:14:48to signal that this is a professional machine.
1:14:50The thing that is all quite about is it has so many holes in it, a lot of holes in it.
1:14:54Okay, I have to say something about these holes.
1:14:58So everybody's talking about like the fear of holes things and how holes can look gross,
1:15:02trypophobia like you don't, nobody Google it.
1:15:06It's always a joke but don't.
1:15:07But here's the thing, I don't think it's that because I've been looking at it very close
1:15:12and what I think is the weird design decision that I don't understand is it's not the holes
1:15:16themselves but it's that there's two grates of holes that are offset from each other.
1:15:22I actually think that they may have done that to offset the trypophobia effect.
1:15:26Yeah so you have these two grates but the thing that you can tell from videos of it
1:15:31or what is that actually one of the few times I think AR is quite cool is like looking at
1:15:34the AR models of it.
1:15:36Yeah that's really cool.
1:15:37But the grates have a lot of distance between them and so when you're looking at it from
1:15:43different angles the back set holes move quite a lot compared to the front set
1:15:48holes and and the thing that I don't like is I find it creates an optical
1:15:52illusion where from some angles it almost looks like I'm trying to think
1:15:58about is the way that you can draw an object and you can shade it such that if
1:16:02you're looking at it it can look like it's recessing into the page and then
1:16:06all of a sudden it can look like it's popping out of the page. Like when you
1:16:08see people drawing on the street. Yeah. Or is it coming out? Or does it look like it's real?
1:16:15Like standing up. Right. And I find I have a little bit of that effect that I don't like,
1:16:19that from some angles it actually looks like there's bubbles that are popping out that have
1:16:25a little hole in the center. So that, so I like it took me a while to pin down what don't I like.
1:16:29It's not the trypophobia thing. I think that's a little overblown. I mean unless you suffer from
1:16:33it greatly or whatever. I mean for me like when I saw it I was a little bit like oh does that make
1:16:38me feel weird but it's not that. I just don't think that it is a very attractive
1:16:42computer. Like it has some strength like it's that as well but then also the big
1:16:48handles the big stainless steel handles and there's the aluminium case. It is just a
1:16:53very particular looking thing. It looks a lot like the previous Mac Pro which was
1:17:02lovingly referred to as the cheese grater I think on purpose they could
1:17:09have made it look any shape and any color like for example this is not space gray
1:17:13mm-hmm it is silver like the old Mac Pro mm-hmm when Apple had said that pro
1:17:19devices were space gray that's why the iMac Pro is space gray that's why the Mac
1:17:24mini space gray because they're trying to position it towards the pro market
1:17:26more but then the Mac Pro is not grey. Yeah. Which is weird. I honest like if
1:17:34there's one thing about it that I think could make a big difference for not very
1:17:37much is I think it would look better if they just darkened the colors like
1:17:40it's grey it would have much less of that weirdness if they just darkened it
1:17:45up so like I give the I give the light color a big thumbs down but I can also
1:17:52understand why they might want to do it this way to try to distinguish it but I
1:17:56I if I if I had one of those things to be like can I spray paint this like will
1:18:01spray paint stick to the surface of this? I guess dbrand right? Oh yeah I'm sure
1:18:06there must be a dbrand skin where that I can line up with all the holes just
1:18:09perfectly. I'm looking at it in AR right now and I'm like moving it around and it
1:18:13is really weird how that how it changes. Do you see how much the holes change from different
1:18:17angles? Oh it's like a lot of eyes now. Yeah like at an extreme angle it looks
1:18:22like eyes popping out. Yeah that's so weird. That was the thing that I
1:18:26settled on like this is what I don't like. I find the little feet kind of strange
1:18:30like there's like a lot of things about it that are super weird but it's
1:18:34incredibly powerful. So I was talking to a friend of mine, a friend
1:18:40Austin Evans, he was a wonderful tech youtuber and I said I asked him the
1:18:46graphics cards that Apple are putting in this thing they're talking about how
1:18:49powerful it is like what do you think about it and he's like seems pretty
1:18:53legit like that they're not joking with this like and it's one of those things
1:18:58like our Apple and they continue to make the modules that you need to continue to
1:19:02make this thing better over time who knows but what they're putting in it
1:19:07which is like they rebrand AMD cards right so they're like AMD cards that you
1:19:10can buy and then they kind of rebrand them with Apple and put them in this new
1:19:15package. It is super powerful but I think it's too powerful for most people.
1:19:20Oh and like... All of it is. Yeah this thing is very clearly a device for
1:19:27professionals. In a way that the iMac Pro is like oh it's iMac Pro but also you
1:19:33know you can buy one and it can be like a nice high-end computer. But yeah that
1:19:41like I found that whole presentation really interesting and in particular when they were
1:19:48going through the specs it's like they couldn't hit harder a bunch of bullet points for people
1:19:54who work in the video field like that is what they were just hitting like over and over again
1:19:59um and the one that like the we were laughing because at some point like the numbers are just
1:20:05so big and like it can do a hundred million things like you're losing your mind and they
1:20:08they go through all this this incredible stuff. A thousand tracks in Logic. Oh yeah
1:20:12yeah the demo of a thousand Logic tracks. If you have a thousand tracks in Logic what are you
1:20:16doing? What song are you making? Yeah. Or like the biggest podcast ever. Yeah it's
1:20:23like oh you know yeah it was yeah the demos the demos were just absurd but
1:20:30then the thing that made me smile is like they go through all of this stuff
1:20:33and then at the end they're like oh we've also built a custom module that
1:20:37will offload all the work of handling the ProRes codec, which for anyone who
1:20:42works in Final Cut knows, "Oh, this is the whole thing that Final Cut is based on,"
1:20:46is like converting all your files into this particular codec, and then the
1:20:50machine works with that codec. And it's like, "Oh, okay, so all these amazing things
1:20:53that you've already shown me, none of that has to even shoulder the burden of
1:20:58like the primary processing of video files." Like it just, it is a product that
1:21:03feels really aimed at like every film and production studio in the world. That is very
1:21:09clearly what they're going for. Even with like the reference monitor stuff.
1:21:13I'm like why though? Like this is the thing I don't I'm kind of struggling to get my head
1:21:17around it a little bit. What do you mean?
1:21:20I just don't know. I just don't know if how important a computer this is for Apple to be making.
1:21:28I'm not sure because the Mac Pro used to have a much wider capture of people. Like the catchment
1:21:39area for this computer were people like me and you. We would buy Mac Pros. Yeah. Right?
1:21:44This one feels so purpose-built for specific use cases. I'm just not sure
1:21:55what the business reason is going into the future,
1:22:00which would give me pause for thought
1:22:02in buying one if I needed one.
1:22:04- I'll say this, and here's what I was wondering about
1:22:08when I thought about it later.
1:22:10I know a lot of professionals in the video world
1:22:16who were specifically concerned, even after the iMac Pro,
1:22:21that they just didn't really have anywhere to go with Apple.
1:22:25Like real production houses, you know, the kinds of places that are producing television documentaries and movies and like very complicated YouTube channels, like that kind of stuff.
1:22:38And feeling like these are businesses that deal with huge revenues and their concern was even if they buy a bunch of iMac Pros, they still feel like they're hitting up against the CPU limits for that kind of thing.
1:22:53So what I wonder, and I just kind of think about it as well with Apple getting into like production stuff itself, the Apple TV stuff is, do they...
1:23:03They just think it's important.
1:23:05Yeah, do they think it's important to own the mind share of people in the media production industry?
1:23:15And I can think that that is a good target to have.
1:23:19- I agree that I think it's important.
1:23:21I just wanna see commitment in the long term.
1:23:27- Commitment is always up in the air.
1:23:28- Because they have decided
1:23:30to not make this computer anymore, right?
1:23:34That was clearly the route they were going down
1:23:36because the circular Mac Pro was a disaster.
1:23:39So then they were gonna make the iMac Pro
1:23:42to solve the problem.
1:23:43But then people were so upset, they decided,
1:23:45no, we are gonna make another Mac Pro.
1:23:47The iMac Pro was supposed to be the top computer.
1:23:51Like that was very clear.
1:23:52And then they backtracked on that idea.
1:23:56So like I know that like there's obviously discussions
1:23:58inside of Apple and battles were fought and battles were won.
1:24:02But like it's just interesting to me that like,
1:24:05you decided you weren't gonna do this anymore.
1:24:09Then you went bonkers and built this incredible computer.
1:24:14- But I really am.
1:24:16But it's such a 180, that's what I find weird about this.
1:24:19- Yeah, but I really suspect that there actually
1:24:24is a connection with the Apple TV production.
1:24:27- I think that is a cool theory, I like that.
1:24:29- Simply being exposed more directly to production houses
1:24:34and production houses needs.
1:24:36- This is a disaster, we need to make a computer for this.
1:24:39- And my actual evidence for this is how much
1:24:44they focused on that monitor as a replacement for reference monitors.
1:24:48Let's talk about the monitor.
1:24:49Yeah, but like, yeah, so they've made this crazy monitor, but there's a thing which,
1:24:54if you've never worked with anybody in the media production world, like this really does
1:24:58sound crazy, but you need these very special monitors.
1:25:03Why?
1:25:04Because this is like, it was showing me this presentation, you know about reference monitors,
1:25:09right?
1:25:10Yeah.
1:25:11I don't know what that means.
1:25:12Nobody watches content on a reference monitor, so why is it important?
1:25:16Yeah, okay, so like...
1:25:18I'm trying to think of a use case for a reference monitor.
1:25:21Say you're a relatively small YouTube channel who wants to do something like shoot an interview.
1:25:26This is like a normal person scenario for doing something.
1:25:29And you've got like a Canon camera with you.
1:25:31You want to shoot an interview. Well, you run it immediately to two problems.
1:25:34One of the problems, which is hilarious, is because of tax reasons with the EU,
1:25:38No handheld camera can shoot for more than 30 minutes continuously, right?
1:25:43Because if it could shoot for more than 30 minutes continuously it has to be
1:25:46classified as like a video production device. Which is a higher tax bracket.
1:25:49Which is a higher tax bracket. So there's an artificial limit but one of the ways
1:25:52to get around this is with a reference monitor which is this little
1:25:55monitor that you can bring with you to attach to the camera and the reference
1:26:00monitor can record for as long as you need it to and you can do an interview
1:26:05interview that's four hours long you're still using your Canon camera but the
1:26:10reference monitor is actually the thing that's doing the capture on the other
1:26:13end. I didn't know that, I didn't know that, okay. Yeah so so here this is just
1:26:19an example of like what is a sort of normal use case. This is not what that's
1:26:23not what this monitor does. Well yeah but I'm just like building this up like what
1:26:26is the concept of the thing and the reference monitor is doing two things
1:26:30one it's taking the hit of being in the tax bracket of an actual production
1:26:34machine that nobody in their right mind is buying this unless they have a
1:26:37specific professional use for it. Because they're like oh they do you mean the
1:26:41reference the reference monitor because like the Apple said they're like
1:26:44$40,000. Yeah so so yeah like if you want to buy a reference monitor for this kind
1:26:48of thing like you're gonna be spending a lot of money they're hugely
1:26:51variable in price. And I found out from my friend Alex that like if you want to
1:26:56rent them like a thousand dollars a day yeah all like a week or so they're
1:26:59massively expensive. Yeah and so the second thing that a reference monitor
1:27:03does is it is it is able to display the image in a bunch of ways that are useful
1:27:11to professionals okay the briefest way I can explain this is you want to be able
1:27:18to have a video camera shoot in something that's close to like a raw
1:27:21mode for photography so that you can manipulate the colors as much as you
1:27:25want afterward but the way that actually looks if you look at the back of the of
1:27:32of the camera doing the capture is it doesn't look right.
1:27:34The colors look all wrong because it's just recording
1:27:37as much information as possible.
1:27:39So that signal is pumped into a reference monitor
1:27:41and the reference monitor's whole job
1:27:44is to as accurately as possible represent the colors
1:27:46that you're actually going to see.
1:27:48- It is trying to be your eye.
1:27:51- Yeah, so it is like a replacement eye
1:27:53is a good way to think about it
1:27:54because you have to put the camera in this funny mode.
1:27:56- Okay.
1:27:57- But also because of that then,
1:27:59they are some of the highest quality screens
1:28:02that you can purchase on planet earth.
1:28:04- Okay.
1:28:05- Because directors are looking at it
1:28:07for a concept of what are they shooting.
1:28:10And so that's why like--
1:28:11- Okay, I see--
1:28:12- Christ becomes no option.
1:28:13- Like pictures of directors
1:28:15looking at these super weird monitors.
1:28:17- Yeah, so if you like,
1:28:18if you see behind the scenes of any modern movie--
1:28:20- They look like old CRTs, it looks so strange.
1:28:23- They look very strange,
1:28:24but what you don't see for the last 10 years
1:28:27is a director looking into a camera, right?
1:28:29They'll usually have some setup with a bunch of screens
1:28:32that they're looking at.
1:28:32Those are all reference monitors,
1:28:34because what is being captured by the camera
1:28:37is not something that's really great
1:28:38for the human to look directly at.
1:28:40- And that's because they're capturing a version
1:28:43of the footage that can be easily edited and color corrected.
1:28:47- Yes, that's correct. - Right, 'cause it's trying
1:28:48to capture as much information as possible.
1:28:49So looking at it with the eye is a nightmare.
1:28:52- Yeah, looking at the image directly
1:28:54doesn't really help you.
1:28:55But in order to be able to do that is also very computationally intensive at the time.
1:29:00And then also just like you need the screen to look amazing because the director has to
1:29:04have the best sense of what's going on.
1:29:06But that is also why like price is no limit for these things.
1:29:11Because if you're shooting the next Star Wars movie like what do you care the cost of the
1:29:16thing that the director is looking at?
1:29:17It just doesn't matter.
1:29:20But that's why Apple was pushing so hard that this screen, I think they are genuinely marketing
1:29:27it as, "Hey, aren't you tired of looking at these garbage reference monitors in these
1:29:31weird setups?
1:29:33Why don't you buy five of these instead and look at these?"
1:29:36I also think that's why the stand that people are laughing at is like this ridiculous stand.
1:29:42One of its big features is this like ease of detachment and reattachment with the magnetic
1:29:47background, with magnetic back.
1:29:49And I think that's exactly what they're going for there is like you're using this in a professional
1:29:53scenario where people are moving around, you're changing the set, you might want to have a
1:29:57bunch of different workstations set up, you've got five of these screens and when you move
1:30:01over here just like boom boom boom click them in and you have a little station that's ready
1:30:05to go.
1:30:06The reason people are making fun of understand those because it's a thousand dollars and
1:30:09you don't get one.
1:30:10Yeah, no, yeah.
1:30:11Which is insanity.
1:30:13It is hilarious.
1:30:16And the way it was, it went by.
1:30:18It was so funny.
1:30:19It went by so fast on the actual WWDC that I missed it.
1:30:24It went by so fast I can't believe they even bothered to say it.
1:30:28They wanted to say it so little, I don't know why they ever did.
1:30:31Yeah, I don't know why they bothered either. It was a terrible disaster on their part.
1:30:37But I think in the context of who were they pushing this for, it actually kind of makes sense.
1:30:43But that's why I think I can easily see Apple's interaction with the TV world.
1:30:48They're looking at like, what are your problems?
1:30:51How can we build a machine that solves your problems?
1:30:54But it's also why I expect that the upgrade pricing on that Mac Pro is going to be insanity upgrade pricing,
1:31:02because they're pitching it at companies that just simply don't care.
1:31:05Yeah, I cannot wait for the tool to come out where you can max out the cost.
1:31:10Oh my God.
1:31:11It's the best thing ever to do. I love it.
1:31:13And this one starts at like six grand and it has like a 256 gigabyte hard drive.
1:31:18With SSD.
1:31:20We did not talk about the matte display, though, which is kind of bonkers where they've etched glass
1:31:28to make it look like a matte effect.
1:31:31Yeah, it's nano etching of the glass to scatter the light rays coming in.
1:31:34That's wild, right?
1:31:36Here's the thing, Myke. You know what's the problem with something like that?
1:31:38As I look at it and I think, it raises expectations for something else.
1:31:43I'm gonna say something that I know is not gonna happen.
1:31:48But Apple, if you're listening,
1:31:51I know you like to raise the average selling price of your devices.
1:31:55Okay.
1:31:59And look, you've just introduced
1:32:03a beautiful new dark mode. What is the one Achilles heel of dark mode?
1:32:08is reflections. I will pay anything for an iPhone and an iPad and an iPad with a
1:32:19nano etched screen. But the problem is what side is it etched? What do you mean?
1:32:25Because if it's etched on the side where you're rubbing your finger on it is that
1:32:29gonna feel weird? They can make it work. Okay. We won't worry about that. Look, Apple, you know, I mean
1:32:37Despite the fact that they're very clear like it's a total disaster to actually touch that nano etch screen and you know
1:32:41Really 100% shouldn't yeah, really? I really want to touch it. Yeah, they're never putting those in the Apple Store
1:32:46Yeah, I did kind of imagine it's like cuz it's like tiny cock like you run your finger in it
1:32:51So I cut myself on my screen
1:32:53It's nanoscale and I think I think if I remember correctly from the diagram, there's a layer on top of the nano etching anyway
1:32:59Okay, but but yeah, it's like all I was thinking of is like Apple Apple
1:33:03You can charge me anything for a matte screen on an iPhone and an iPad like that average that average selling price
1:33:09You can make it happen
1:33:11Nano texture glass
1:33:14How fun all right, I want to know though, I mean, I know we're a way away from this is coming like towards the end of the
1:33:21year
1:33:22Do we read these products interest you like do they feel like something that you would want use an iMac Pro, right?
1:33:28Yeah, I've got a Mac Pro right now
1:33:31I mean, again, I know we're talking about a lot of this stuff, like that it is priced at a very specific type of user.
1:33:39But you are a specific type of user as well. Do these things intrigue you?
1:33:46I can say that the Mac Pro itself doesn't.
1:33:49Really?
1:33:51For a couple of reasons. One of which is I do think that the price is going to be insane.
1:33:55And it's interesting.
1:33:57For what you would want.
1:34:00is the base model machine as bench tested against an upgraded iMac Pro,
1:34:08which is what I have, the upgraded iMac Pro will actually outperform the base
1:34:13model Mac Pro. Why did you see that? I've seen a couple of youtubers run the
1:34:18actual state, like I've seen it from channels that I would trust on this kind
1:34:21of thing, but I could even believe like let's say that they're slightly wrong,
1:34:24that the base model is only going to be like a marginal improvement, right, which
1:34:28for many thousands of dollars is not worth doing.
1:34:32Yeah, because it will go to 28 cores.
1:34:34Yeah.
1:34:35Which is just like...
1:34:36Yeah, it's insane.
1:34:37Alright.
1:34:38Do you want to work before I ask you?
1:34:41What do you want to do, computer?
1:34:421.5 terabytes of RAM.
1:34:44I know, yeah.
1:34:45I cannot wait to see how much money 1.5 terabytes of RAM costs.
1:34:50I'm saying it now.
1:34:53I'm willing to bet.
1:34:55Ooh, let's play this game.
1:34:57I'm willing to bet that you could spec this machine up to 50 grand.
1:35:04I will say you could go over.
1:35:06I reckon that you go over.
1:35:09You get like a few terabytes of storage and 1.0 terabytes of RAM.
1:35:13Let's not include the display.
1:35:15Yeah, you know, I'm just talking about the machine itself.
1:35:19I think you might be able to go over.
1:35:21I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
1:35:23I feel like pretty confident in saying like you'll be able to spec this out to
1:35:27a 50 grand machine but again that's why like like what we were saying before is
1:35:31like this is not a machine that is aimed at like individuals in any real way so I
1:35:38can say that the Mac Pro is like yeah sure if I had a spare 50 grand lying
1:35:44around that had to be spent on a Mac Pro like tax time yes like a tax incentive
1:35:50or something, then I wouldn't be sad to have one, right?
1:35:53But I just, I cannot imagine justifying that machine
1:35:59for like the actual needs that I would have.
1:36:02Now, the monitor on the other hand
1:36:04is very interesting to me.
1:36:06- But what would you plug into it?
1:36:08- So, I can't possibly get into all of this, Myke,
1:36:12but I'm very interested to see what did they release
1:36:19the actual things that that monitor plugs into. Because they've been super cagey about
1:36:24it, and I've spoken to people who were on the inside trying to get more details, and
1:36:28like Apple was officially very cagey about what is this going to plug into.
1:36:32So the hope is this rumoured 16-inch MacBook Pro, which might come at some point, people
1:36:39hoping before the end of the year, is a candidate for you. Right? Like, really cool MacBook
1:36:45Pro that can plug into this monitor and be very powerful.
1:36:49So like here's the thing that I've heard, I haven't verified this.
1:36:52So Apple said it will plug into like the newest 15 inch MacBook.
1:36:58But what's not clear and what people weren't able to get an answer about is like, do you
1:37:02mean the one that was just spec bumped?
1:37:04Or do you mean like the new, like there's no clarity on that.
1:37:09And it also, the monitor does not run at full resolution plugged into the laptop.
1:37:13But you would expect any pro laptop that comes out around the time or after this should be.
1:37:21Yeah, you would hope that it should be able to run it at native resolution.
1:37:25The other thing that I would, it might be ridiculous, but I would love to know is, can the iMac Pro run it at full resolution?
1:37:31I could easily imagine not, but I'm just like, I'd be curious to know.
1:37:35Or a Mac Mini.
1:37:37But what do you have to do to it? Will they make it possible for you to run
1:37:43maybe not four, but how well could a Mac Mini do with it?
1:37:47I want to know what are the actual results. My guess is that Apple itself
1:37:51right now doesn't exactly know what device it's going to run at.
1:37:54And also that they're probably making calculations about what
1:37:58resolutions are they willing to accept on which kind of devices
1:38:01and which ones are they just going to say no about.
1:38:03But the additional complication is I've moved out of my glass cube. I don't have that office anymore.
1:38:12And when I return to London, I'm going to start a new office search.
1:38:20We've been through this before. Let's just build a building. Cortex towers.
1:38:26Cortex brand buildings.
1:38:28look me and you we both need an office why are we messing around? We can talk
1:38:34about that later but I am gonna be on a search for a new office and that is
1:38:44gonna end up being like a whole rethink of like what machines do I want where
1:38:47and also trying to think about like well what eventually does that monitor
1:38:51actually plug into so yeah so I don't know the answer is if they come out and
1:38:56like oh the only thing that can actually run it really is the Mac Pro then like I'll just
1:39:01be a sad boy and use that garbage LG monitor.
1:39:05Oh yeah, I feel like they should make another monitor.
1:39:11I yeah, I really wish that they would make a smaller cheaper one.
1:39:14I think they've gone a bit, the Mac Pro I'm more willing to kind of just be like yeah
1:39:19ok.
1:39:20Yeah Mac Pro whatever, I think it makes sense as a product.
1:39:22Apple make multiple machines that can either use or require a monitor. Like the Mac Mini.
1:39:29I think that it wouldn't be terrible for them to be like here is a monitor that looks like this one
1:39:35which is 4k or 5k and is not intended to be a reference monitor used on film sets.
1:39:42But it's just a nice monitor. I could take HDR not the Super HDR. XDR! Extreme!
1:39:50I kept saying to you during WWDC,
1:39:52I was like, what does that mean?
1:39:54Like I don't--
1:39:54- It's extreme, it's more dynamic range
1:39:57than you can handle, is what it is.
1:39:58- But I was trying to think through what I know
1:40:01about video and coding processes.
1:40:03I'm like, what do you mean it's X, like HDR,
1:40:05that's where it goes, like that's the limit, right?
1:40:09You know, they're like, oh, we've got more than the limit.
1:40:11Like I don't know-- - Highest dynamic range.
1:40:13- Yeah, it's like, okay, you're a million
1:40:14to one contrast ratio, that I fully understand.
1:40:16You can always do better in contrast ratios,
1:40:17but like I don't understand what you mean
1:40:19this super XDR. Pro display XDR. It's not even a good name. It's a very strange name.
1:40:25I wish that they made a 4k version of it. Like if they made a 4k version that could, you know,
1:40:30run on a Mac Mini, it'd be like a no-brainer decision. But yeah, like that monitor gives me
1:40:36real pause. I do really want it, partly because I hate my LG so much. But it is a product that for
1:40:43for me is going to just very much depend on the particulars like what is it.
1:40:47Myke- and it is catastrophically expensive.
1:40:49Will- yeah I know.
1:40:51Myke- like so to get the matte one with a stand is $7,000.
1:40:56Will- I know Myke it's like it makes my heart still.
1:41:00Myke- it's unbelievable.
1:41:01Will- it's unbelievably expensive.
1:41:03Myke- like the computer and the monitor start at the same price.
1:41:09Will- I know I know.
1:41:11And that's before you I think it's that before you add on the stand
1:41:15Yeah, no, they each start at six grand with a monitor that can connect to nothing not even a visa. They each start five
1:41:22Oh, right. That's right. It's
1:41:24Five for the standard six for the mat, right?
1:41:27Then you add nine hundred dollars for a stand or a thousand dollars for a stand
1:41:32Yeah
1:41:35But this way it's wild it's a
1:41:40That's a big old price.
1:41:42Yeah, but that's why I'm convinced this is really aimed at super pros.
1:41:47That's what it's for. That's why I don't really have any interest in it.
1:41:50I mean, I know that you're converting your whole work setup to be an iPad on an external screen with a keyboard.
1:41:57I don't think my lovely little iPad could power one of those bad boys.
1:42:03That would be amazing though.
1:42:04Could you imagine? They're like the Mac mini can't, but the iPad can.
1:42:08I would love that. I would love, especially if they could actually do the red, like, you can have your iPad at 6K.
1:42:14You can see in between the pixels.
1:42:19That would be amazing.