0:00:00IOS 10 is here and you know this full well because I have been sending you lots of stickers.
0:00:07Yeah.
0:00:08It's great!
0:00:09It is just what I feared.
0:00:13It's brilliant, isn't it? I can send you stickers, I can cover up your disapproval with more stickers.
0:00:19Yeah, this is the thing I didn't quite realize is how terrible this can look because you can just keep piling stickers on top of other stickers and make it really look like garbage.
0:00:29No, that's the good thing, because you can create amazing images by just putting more
0:00:34stickers over them.
0:00:35No, this is not the amazing thing.
0:00:37What I'm hoping, Myke, is that this is a fad, just like with other people I know who have
0:00:43installed iOS 10.
0:00:45It's the same thing when the watch first came out, that everybody's having fun, sort of
0:00:50ironically or semi-ironically sending each other those watch emoji faces.
0:00:56I'm feeling like I hope this is a phase with iMessage where I'm getting messages sent with lasers
0:01:01that don't require lasers at all and that everybody's just doing it because it's fun in the beginning
0:01:07but you have rapidly stickered me out with all of your stickers
0:01:12so I'm hoping this is a phase for you too and you'll grow out of it
0:01:15We've known each other for two years now
0:01:17Have we?
0:01:18It takes about that sort of time, yeah
0:01:20Long time
0:01:21We've been friends since I quit my job and that was about two years ago now
0:01:26Oh yeah, yeah, that's right, that would be the marker.
0:01:28Do you think I'm gonna get bored of this?
0:01:31No.
0:01:32What do you think?
0:01:33No, I really don't.
0:01:34In my heart of hearts, I don't think you're gonna get bored of this.
0:01:38It may be a fad, and people may get bored of it.
0:01:41I will not get bored of it.
0:01:43Yeah.
0:01:44I think that's what's gonna happen.
0:01:46I think your rainbow stickers over my emoticon disapproval faces, I think that's gonna be
0:01:53a thing that happens forever.
0:01:54There are disapproval faces stickers too.
0:01:57Yeah but I don't want a disapproval face sticker.
0:01:59I want to do it old fashioned with characters on a keyboard.
0:02:03No, because you can put your disapproval over the top of the message it is proving.
0:02:09I'm going to keep hand crafting my emoticons as long as I'm alive.
0:02:14Oh you do artisanal stickers right?
0:02:16No it's not a sticker.
0:02:17Handcrafted artisanal stickers.
0:02:20It's not a sticker.
0:02:21It's not a sticker.
0:02:22You can send your disapproval with confetti.
0:02:25- I don't think that's how that works.
0:02:29If the only thing, the only effect that I would want
0:02:32is if I could send disapproval faces
0:02:34that would just slowly drain all the color
0:02:37out of your screen.
0:02:38- God, that'd be pretty good actually.
0:02:40- Yeah, that's the effect I want.
0:02:42You're listening Apple?
0:02:43That's what I want.
0:02:44I want to send a disapproval face
0:02:46that literally makes the phone
0:02:47of the other person kind of sad.
0:02:49How you feeling Myke?
0:02:51I feel like I'm eight hours behind myself right now.
0:02:56- Why is that?
0:02:57- Because I came home from Portland yesterday.
0:03:00- Ah, the worst time zone in the world to come back from.
0:03:04- Yep.
0:03:04- How was the annual HipsterCon?
0:03:07- It was really, really good.
0:03:09- Yeah?
0:03:09- Yeah, I just spent the week and basically, or the week,
0:03:12I don't even know when it was, it was eight.
0:03:14- Do you wanna tell people what HipsterCon actually is,
0:03:16just for those who might not be aware?
0:03:20- I did this last year too.
0:03:21I went to the XOXO festival in Portland, Oregon.
0:03:25Of course.
0:03:26Tentatively named BenchCon because I effectively
0:03:29spent two or three days sitting on a bench under an umbrella
0:03:32drinking coffee, eating food, and drinking IPA beers.
0:03:36And I had a great time.
0:03:38Oh, it does sound nice.
0:03:39It was actually really nice.
0:03:40I didn't really do anything.
0:03:42There's two levels of pass that you can get for XOXO.
0:03:45One is conference.
0:03:45One is festival.
0:03:47Festival allows you into the area.
0:03:49and then they have events in the evenings that you can go to.
0:03:52Like arcade nights and stuff like that.
0:03:55I did festival this time, so I just spent my day
0:03:57just outside playing board games with friends
0:03:59and stuff like that.
0:04:00- So you couldn't even go to the actual conference
0:04:02if you wanted to, you just bought the
0:04:04I wanna hang around outside ticket.
0:04:06- Exactly, I mean this time for the first time,
0:04:08they kind of simulcast some of the talks
0:04:10into the couple of bars that were located in the venue.
0:04:14But you couldn't fit all the festival people in there
0:04:16'cause the bars were too small.
0:04:17So you just maybe, I did that with one talk.
0:04:20And then the rest of the time just spent my time outside
0:04:22enjoying company.
0:04:23- So is that what you were going there for?
0:04:26Was it kind of enjoy the people stroke networking event?
0:04:30Is that the value that you get out of XOXO?
0:04:33- That was the original plan.
0:04:35What it ended up being was Adina basically telling me to go
0:04:40because of everything that's been going on recently,
0:04:43she's like, you need to just get out of the house
0:04:46for a few days and just go and spend some time with your friends and do nothing. Turns
0:04:51out buying a house is stressful. I think that came across last time.
0:04:55Yeah, I think that definitely came across last time.
0:04:57I just took a vacation, basically. I only recorded one podcast for the whole time of
0:05:04the festival.
0:05:05Wow!
0:05:06Yeah.
0:05:07That's like a 95% reduction in podcast recording for you.
0:05:11Exactly. So the festival, I was there from the Wednesday and then it ended on the Sunday
0:05:16and I just recorded one show during that time.
0:05:18Oh, and then one kind of like bonus-y thing
0:05:20that wasn't really a show, we just ate some cereal
0:05:22and spoke about it, it wasn't really a real show.
0:05:26- Was this Top Four?
0:05:28It sounds like Top Four. - Yeah, it's Top Four.
0:05:29Yeah, it's Top Four.
0:05:30(laughing)
0:05:32- Which podcast could they be eating cereal
0:05:35and talking about it?
0:05:36There's only one called Top Four.
0:05:37- Because one of the food trucks was cereal from a van,
0:05:40which was just a van and then you could buy cereal from them.
0:05:44So we ate some cereal and maybe by the time this episode is out, if it is, it will be
0:05:50in the show notes, there is a kind of a bonus top four where we did that and just ranked
0:05:54top four cereal of the six cereals that we bought.
0:05:57But I think the most interesting part of this trip, which relates to this show, is that
0:06:02the festival ended on Sunday, but I left on Tuesday evening and I spent those two days,
0:06:09the Monday and Tuesday, having a graycation.
0:06:12Hey!
0:06:13Hey, I'm so proud of you.
0:06:15Well, I worked for two days.
0:06:17So there was nobody, everybody had left.
0:06:20So I spent basically two days in my hotel room
0:06:23with the occasional leaving of the hotel room
0:06:25to get supplies, working and catching up.
0:06:29I recorded two of my regular shows as well,
0:06:31one on Monday and one on Tuesday.
0:06:33So how did you find the experience of the Gracation,
0:06:37of being separated from your normal life
0:06:40kind of narrowing focus down to just like you, a hotel room, and the work that you need
0:06:47to catch up on. How did you find this?
0:06:49So I had two feelings about this. Very useful was feeling number one, and I'll come back
0:06:55to that. The second one, and I don't know if you feel this, maybe this would be pulling
0:07:01away your armour a little bit too much. Lonely. I felt very lonely.
0:07:07[Laughter]
0:07:12And I don't know if you would dare to say that you feel this way.
0:07:16This is so sweet. This is so sweet of you, Myke.
0:07:20Because this is...
0:07:22[Laughter]
0:07:24This is one of these moments where...
0:07:26It's sometimes so hard for people to understand other people.
0:07:31And...
0:07:33When I do a Gratation...
0:07:35The thing that is I have a very hard time explaining to other people is that one of the chief benefits that I get is I don't quite know how to describe this but it's a bit like feeling as though I'm the only person in the world.
0:07:55Like I'm just, I'm here, I'm just on my own, I'm focused down.
0:07:59But when I say that, I mean it in a very relaxing way.
0:08:06I don't have to, as much as I can shut out the outside world,
0:08:09like I don't have to focus on external things right now,
0:08:13I can just focus on internal things.
0:08:15And so it's like the opposite of loneliness.
0:08:20Like if loneliness was an awesome feeling,
0:08:22maybe that's the way I feel when I do this.
0:08:24I mean, I understand that because I felt that way as well. Uh-huh, but I also had the feeling of
0:08:30Missing my fiance that was that's the loneliness feeling it's like I because most of the time I'm on my own, right?
0:08:38But then I would see a dinner in the evening and right not doing that just being on my own for that entire period of
0:08:45Time I felt very like isolated in a weird way
0:08:47I mean, I see the benefit because I really it was very useful
0:08:52But I felt the loneliness. I was ready to go home. Maybe the problem was that I'd already
0:08:59spent an X amount of days away, even though I was like having fun and enjoying myself.
0:09:03And then this was like the tail end of the trip. But even then, it wasn't as long as
0:09:07your mammoth Amsterdam trip that you took last time. So maybe you just don't feel loneliness
0:09:12in the same way that I do.
0:09:14AO Well, it's a bit of an opposite feeling.
0:09:18Myke.
0:09:19You feel the loneliness, but there's a benefit of the loneliness.
0:09:21No, no, you don't understand it all, Myke.
0:09:23No, I think I understand.
0:09:24I'm just trying to paint you as a human.
0:09:26You don't understand it all.
0:09:29Because the thing that's also hard to explain is, I think maybe the only time I experience
0:09:36a kind of – what I think people mean by loneliness is actually sometimes at conferences
0:09:42when I've been really overloaded with people interaction.
0:09:46the only time I ever can conceive what you humans refer to as loneliness.
0:09:51[Laughter]
0:09:52I don't, I don't mean it in, in that, like, in that way, but it's like, I just, I think
0:09:56you fail to understand what I'm trying to say because I can't.
0:10:00No, no, I thi- okay, I think I do, I just think I'm doing a bad job of relaying it back
0:10:05to you.
0:10:06Mm-hmm.
0:10:07It's like, when I say loneliness for me, it's that there's no one around, right?
0:10:10Right.
0:10:11"It's just me here," and you feel that feeling,
0:10:14but it's a different label.
0:10:16So you feel the feeling of, "It's just me here,
0:10:19"there's no one around," but to you,
0:10:21that's a positive for achieving the goal.
0:10:25For me, I feel it's a negative in my life,
0:10:28but I still see the positive of achieving the goal,
0:10:32which is when I go back to usefulness.
0:10:34So I felt lonely, but that loneliness helped me focus
0:10:39on getting what I needed done out of those day and a half.
0:10:43Because I have come back from this trip
0:10:47and I don't feel the crippling behindness.
0:10:51- Yes, yes.
0:10:52- So I am busy the next few days
0:10:54'cause I've crammed some stuff in to Thursday
0:10:56because tomorrow basically I've got the day off
0:10:59and so I have to fit in maybe one extra show
0:11:03than I would normally do on a Thursday.
0:11:05But I don't feel like my email inbox
0:11:09is ready to blow. Right? And like just I got a bunch of other things done that and a couple
0:11:16of extra things than I would usually do whilst taking that day and a half and it was very
0:11:21relaxed. I'm glad to hear that you feel this way and it's interesting that you mentioned
0:11:28doing this while you were in Portland because I happened to I did a funny thing this summer
0:11:35when I was traveling which was you know we did a whole bunch of travels and at the at
0:11:38end of it my my wife and I were spending several days in Las Vegas. And then there
0:11:43was a question of like heading home and kind of getting back into the routine
0:11:48and getting back to work but this was around the time that I was I was trying
0:11:52to get the traffic video out and ready to go and I talked to my wife about our
0:11:58travels and and essentially made the decision that I was going to do a a kind
0:12:03of graycation by actually staying in Las Vegas for a couple of extra days but shifting my mindset
0:12:10from like "I'm here on vacation" and not doing anything to "I am here now focused on doing some
0:12:17work" because I think it's the same thing of like especially when you're traveling back and you're
0:12:22changing time zones just being aware of when you go back you're going to be really out of things
0:12:28for a little while and I found it really beneficial to feel like I have made as much progress
0:12:35as I can in a couple of days on a thing that's due soon before I'm stepping on a plane and
0:12:41putting myself out of commission for a while.
0:12:44It's a feeling of getting ahead of the work before you head back.
0:12:50It sounds like you did a similar thing with spending a couple extra days out there in
0:12:53Portland.
0:12:54So the thing is here, I know that when you hear this,
0:12:58you can see that all you're doing is displacing the work.
0:13:02But the thing is, when you're flying back from,
0:13:06especially from the West Coast,
0:13:08you've lost a day and a half.
0:13:10So you have to catch up on that day and a half
0:13:13before you can even consider catching up on the work
0:13:17that would have been if you were to come home
0:13:18two days earlier.
0:13:20- Exactly, exactly.
0:13:20- So it has a compounding feeling.
0:13:23and by being completely up to date before you catch the plane, even though it's still
0:13:28taken probably the same amount of time, it is the emotional reaction to seeing that 18
0:13:35hours worth of work from all of the travelling, that when you don't then have to think about
0:13:41on top of all the other things you still have to do, it just feels way better. That's the
0:13:46way I came away from this. It's like yeah, it's still the same amount of work, probably
0:13:50over the same amount of time, but your emotional feeling towards it is different because you
0:13:54come home with a cleaner slate.
0:13:56Exactly, exactly. And I think this summer was the second time I did this kind of like
0:14:02"I'm coming back from the West Coast but let me try to do some work before I return" thing.
0:14:07And I also found it hugely valuable just psychologically, like you say. It's not like you're really gaining
0:14:14any extra time, but it changes the feeling upon arrival of "Oh god, now I have all of
0:14:21this stuff to catch up on that I'm behind on." Just trying to get ahead of it before
0:14:26you return. Because again, returning from the West Coast is the worst. Absolutely the
0:14:32worst coming back to London.
0:14:33And so, I think this is kind of interesting because whilst I consider, as many people
0:14:38do, the idea of a standard gracation completely unrealistic for most people, right? To just
0:14:43like pick up and go to Amsterdam for two weeks. Like that, I'm sure you would agree, for the
0:14:48majority of people, is unrealistic.
0:14:49Oh yeah, of course.
0:14:51But if you're going on a work trip, you know, or you're going to a conference, the idea
0:14:57of staying one extra day is not that much more unrealistic, right?
0:15:03No, it's totally, it's a totally doable thing. And I also just want to specify, because I
0:15:10I can't remember if I've mentioned this on the show before, but my current gradations have grown out of a thing that I have done forever since having a job,
0:15:21which is doing what I used to call a "hotel weekend" of just like, I'm really behind on a bunch of work or there's something I really want to focus on.
0:15:33And essentially like, when I would go into school sometimes I would have a little suitcase with me,
0:15:37And it's because I was going to then spend like that night and a full Saturday in a different location like at a hotel
0:15:45just being able to separate from everything and kind of focus.
0:15:48And that's another way where it's like I could steal some time in a sense
0:15:52by doing these like hotel weekends every once in a while, even when I was still working as a teacher.
0:16:01It's just that like now that I'm able to do it for longer stretches of time, I will.
0:16:04But if I was still working as a teacher without a doubt that would still be a habit that I would be
0:16:10doing to
0:16:12stay on top of stuff or to focus on big projects when necessary.
0:16:16So I would say as long as you can overcome the crippling loneliness
0:16:20Gracations are a good move. There's no crippling loneliness.
0:16:24This week's episode is brought to you by Hover. Finding the perfect domain name is
0:16:31ridiculously easy with hover they have over
0:16:34400 domain extensions all the classics like dot-com and dot-net plus niche extensions like design and tech and of course the
0:16:43Quirky ones that we all love to mention dot pizza dot ninja dot horse
0:16:47I don't know if they have dot mountains is dot mountains a thing
0:16:49I don't think it is anyway when you have that idea for a
0:16:52Domain name and you just want to grab it you can do that super easily with hover
0:16:57and they're going to have a domain name suffix for you.
0:17:01Once you get that domain, use hover connect to set up your domain automatically with your website in just a few clicks.
0:17:07No digging through help articles to figure out how to get it all working.
0:17:11Hover is just super simple.
0:17:13So to find that perfect domain name for you and also the perfect suffix for your domain name,
0:17:17go to hover.com and use the promo code "caretech" at checkout to save 10% off your first purchase.
0:17:24That's Caretech. C-A-R-E-T-E-X. 10% off. Hover.com.
0:17:30Thanks to Hover for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.
0:17:34In the Reddit thread for the last episode, many people thought that you were making some
0:17:41poor decisions with your dishwashing. Especially the fact that you could only fill half of
0:17:48it at a time. And that really you were expending more energy filling and removing the dish
0:17:54washer two times over than you were just washing the dishes.
0:17:58Do people wash dishes?
0:18:00Like, do people understand what the process of washing a dish is?
0:18:03I don't understand how there can be a version of I lazily
0:18:08and almost thoughtlessly throw a bunch of dishes into a robot that then cleans them.
0:18:12How that how they can possibly think doing that twice.
0:18:16So from my perspective, near zero effort multiplied by two.
0:18:21how that can be more effort than hand washing all of the dishes, making sure they're all spotless,
0:18:27drying them, loading them in the drying rack, and then putting them back. Like, this is, this is
0:18:32insanity. I just feel like people who are complaining about this, they don't understand
0:18:35washing dishes. Or they must wash their dishes very poorly. I can't imagine how, how they think
0:18:41it's more effort to load a dishwasher and have the robot do work for you than to, than to do it
0:18:47by hand like an 18th century peasant. I don't understand.
0:18:50I saw a couple of people like recommending washing up as you go along
0:18:54and I don't subscribe to this. That doesn't make any sense to me.
0:18:59That makes me angry.
0:19:00Has anybody who does this ever cooked a meal? Like actually cooked a meal?
0:19:05By the time you're done with the washing up, the food is cold.
0:19:10Like when you're, you know, cooking for two people and you have two pans
0:19:15and like a tray and a bunch of utensils to clean
0:19:18It's madness. No.
0:19:20Yeah, there's so many things that are wrong with this. I mean look, I don't cook. I don't like to cook.
0:19:26I don't have any interest in learning really how to cook but I do make one thing
0:19:30which if I do say so myself is I make fantastic scrambled eggs
0:19:34and so sometimes on the weekends like I make scrambled eggs for my wife and I and
0:19:38that kind of cooking especially with scrambled eggs
0:19:42It's it's a matter of seconds like if you have the scrambled eggs on the pan for 30 seconds too long
0:19:47It's like oh, no
0:19:48It's not it's not perfect anymore
0:19:50And it's the same thing like getting it off the pan getting it onto both plates getting it into both of your mouths
0:19:55I give you don't eat it within minutes of when it's done like it's a terrible terrible experience
0:20:01so yes the going along as your as your
0:20:03Cooking thing is insanity. It makes no sense
0:20:07It's it's a terrible idea and it also it makes me mad because it goes against the whole idea of batch processing like okay
0:20:14Look if for some reason I had to wash my dishes like we rewind to
0:20:18What would be like five years ago when we didn't have a dishwasher and I was really sad
0:20:22It's like but if you're going along its batch processing is way more effective like I would rather and I used to wait until
0:20:30It's like okay. I have a the whole day's worth of dishes are here now now
0:20:34Now I'm just gonna put in some headphones and I'm gonna listen to a podcast and I'm
0:20:38gonna wash the dishes.
0:20:39But I'll do it all at once because this is a way more effective way to do it than every
0:20:45single time.
0:20:46People just don't think about the little transition costs when you're doing a small thing every
0:20:52single time.
0:20:54And I also, I'm gonna be honest here, the people who say, "Oh, just do it as you go
0:20:57along," I don't think they do.
0:20:59I think that's--
0:21:00I don't believe that either.
0:21:01I don't think anybody does that.
0:21:02I think it's a lie.
0:21:03I think it's a lie that people spread to make themselves look good.
0:21:07Yeah, they feel good saying it like, "Oh."
0:21:09How practical I am.
0:21:10Yeah, I'm a fantastic person.
0:21:12And the reason I also hate it is because this falls into the category of solutions,
0:21:15which to me are all under the category of "Just try harder."
0:21:19And it's like, I hate that.
0:21:21If your solution is "Just try harder" or "Just be more careful," go f*** yourself.
0:21:26I'm not interested in your solution.
0:21:28That's the worst solution ever.
0:21:29I don't want you around here anymore.
0:21:31Exactly.
0:21:32Why don't you just pay more attention
0:21:35to the thing that you do?
0:21:36Because that's not how civilization works.
0:21:39Like that's not how progress is made
0:21:41is by requiring people to pay more and more careful attention
0:21:46to tinier and tinier insignificant things.
0:21:48- Well, here's my problem with that is
0:21:49you've just spent a ton of work cooking something.
0:21:52Before you can enjoy it, do more work.
0:21:55- Yeah, exactly.
0:21:56- No, that is unacceptable.
0:21:58- Yeah, that's why.
0:21:59My solution, throw the things in the dishwasher.
0:22:02As I, it's like, I know this will just drive these people
0:22:04even crazier, but it's like, if you saw the way
0:22:07I loaded a dishwasher, I'm sure most of these people
0:22:09would just lose their minds.
0:22:10Because again, since I'm only loading the top
0:22:13because it is mildly inconvenient for me to bend down
0:22:15to the bottom row, I will also just throw in a couple
0:22:19of the biggest things, like if I've been cooking eggs,
0:22:22it's like, okay, great, we have the frying pan,
0:22:24we have three plates and it's full.
0:22:26close, go, clean it robot, and now we're done.
0:22:30Like I don't even want to have to think about it.
0:22:31So not only do I use half the dishwasher,
0:22:34I load the dishwasher in the most inefficient way possible
0:22:38from the sense of how many dishes could you have gotten
0:22:41in this dishwasher, but from the personally
0:22:44most efficient way, which is what's the least amount
0:22:47of effort I can expend to get these dishes done.
0:22:49That's the only right way to do it as far as I'm concerned.
0:22:52- One argument that I was expecting,
0:22:54but we didn't get any of what I saw was people complaining about your effect on the environment.
0:23:00We didn't get any of those.
0:23:01I saw a couple of those.
0:23:03Oh really?
0:23:04I didn't see any.
0:23:05Maybe it was just on Twitter, I don't know what it was.
0:23:08But that's also like, I've also seen this thing in real life if this ever comes up with
0:23:13people I know.
0:23:14Like, "How do you use this dishwasher?
0:23:15I don't understand."
0:23:16And again, it's one of these things where people just focus on what they can see or
0:23:22think about and so they think about the washing machine and they don't realize.
0:23:26As always with this stuff that if you're hand washing dishes you're using, I've seen crazy
0:23:30numbers like it's 20 times more water when you're hand washing a dish than when you're
0:23:34doing the dishwasher.
0:23:35I know how I wash dishes and I know I'm using what a dishwasher does.
0:23:40Yeah.
0:23:41The dishwasher we got has some, it's printed on the front, it's some crazy low number for
0:23:46how much water it uses to clean all of the dishes.
0:23:49So it's like, as usual, the robot is way better at this than you can ever be petty human.
0:23:55Like, you're not gonna-- there's no way you can use three drops of water and actually get it clean.
0:23:58It's not gonna happen, so...
0:24:00But again, even if everybody's washing their dishes by hand versus using the dishwasher,
0:24:05it still doesn't make any effect on the amount of domestic water use versus agricultural water use,
0:24:09but that's a story for another time for people who like to complain about that kind of stuff.
0:24:14So, inefficiently using the dishwasher, maximum efficient solution.
0:24:18CORTEX COTAGE will have a dishwasher.
0:24:21Yes, I'm so happy for you.
0:24:23Not immediately.
0:24:25But it will get one.
0:24:27Because it takes some work.
0:24:29And as we've been over before,
0:24:31when you buy a house you're not really left with a lot of money.
0:24:34Right.
0:24:35But it will happen.
0:24:37And it's also worth your time to get the dishwasher.
0:24:40Talking about money,
0:24:42my understanding being on the periphery of YouTube culture
0:24:46tells me that you're not going to make any money anymore. That's what I have gotten from
0:24:51seeing a bunch of blog posts and YouTube videos from some people that I follow. As it seems
0:24:56that YouTube changed their monetization strategy. Are you able to provide an overview for the
0:25:02listener or shall I bumble my way through it?
0:25:06I can provide a brief overview of what has occurred recently in YouTube land. So this
0:25:13This is a story of demonetization, which...
0:25:18Is a great word, by the way.
0:25:20Is a great word.
0:25:21I really...
0:25:22This is slightly tangent before we even begin.
0:25:24I really hate the word monetize.
0:25:26Yeah, it's terrible.
0:25:27It's a really ugly word, and I'm also aware that it is a word I can never spell right,
0:25:33and iOS text prediction never has any idea what I'm trying to say when I write out the
0:25:37word monetize.
0:25:38Because it doesn't exist, the word.
0:25:40It is a fake word.
0:25:41Yeah, I can't spell it.
0:25:43I think it's just an ugly word.
0:25:45And then like demonetization,
0:25:47I feel like we're gonna build our way up
0:25:48to some kind of anti-disestablishment
0:25:50and to herringism of monetize.
0:25:53- Soon there's gonna be retro demonetization
0:25:55when they put it back again.
0:25:57- Which yeah, which is almost certainly has occurred.
0:25:58I do know people who have been retro demonetized.
0:26:00So yeah.
0:26:01- Oh my word.
0:26:02(laughing)
0:26:04- It's an ugly, ugly word.
0:26:07- Retro retro demonetized.
0:26:09- Yeah, I guess yeah, that could happen.
0:26:10- When they take it away again.
0:26:11or re-retro demonetized.
0:26:13- Oh, re, re is good.
0:26:15Re-retro demonetization.
0:26:17- It's a horrible word.
0:26:18But it feels like, I don't know,
0:26:21like a tangent to the tangent is
0:26:24the reason that business lingo like this
0:26:26creeps into the language is because it is effective
0:26:29at conveying an idea with a small number of syllables,
0:26:33usually.
0:26:34- Like the word monetize or monetization,
0:26:38I don't know how to express in a better way
0:26:41than that. Yeah, or with fewer syllables. Yeah. Like I can say "make money from" but
0:26:48it just isn't as good. I mean I hate monetize, but it completely conveys what you're trying
0:26:55to say. Yeah, it does. But so yes, there has been this latest round of demonetization in
0:27:02YouTube. This is a long story that turns into YouTube drama as these things mostly do, but
0:27:07I will try to briefly summarize it, which is that I guess maybe it was about two weeks ago now
0:27:14a big brouhaha came about because a bunch of people discovered that their videos had been
0:27:21demonetized so that YouTube was no longer running ads on them,
0:27:24which meant that the creators were no longer earning money off of those videos,
0:27:28and that they had been demonetized for
0:27:32a set of guidelines that YouTube had put out which is related to the content of those videos.
0:27:39So it seems like YouTube is trying to make a move to be more advertising friendly.
0:27:44And that means YouTube doesn't want to run ads or...
0:27:49Whose motives are the driving force here?
0:27:52Is it YouTube or is it the advertisers? Who knows because you never see on the inside of these things.
0:27:57[whispering] It's definitely the advertisers.
0:27:58[whispering] You try to know what it is.
0:27:59I think it's the advertisers as well. It's totally the advertisers.
0:28:02but I still have some doubts about the mechanisms by which YouTube is doing it, but that's a different story.
0:28:06So anyway, videos that include these sort of broad categories will not be monetized,
0:28:14which includes things like sexually suggestive content or sexual humor, partial nudity, violence, inappropriate language,
0:28:24harassment, swearing, promotion of drugs and related substances,
0:28:30and controversial or sensitive subjects, including subjects related to war, political conflicts, natural disasters,
0:28:36and tragedies, even if graphic imagery is not shown.
0:28:39So these are like some pretty broad, very broad, very subjective guidelines about
0:28:50what kind of content on YouTube can have ads run against it.
0:28:54And as you can imagine, many people were quite upset to wake up one day and discover that
0:28:59they weren't earning money on a bunch of their videos.
0:29:01And in the constant...
0:29:03[sigh]
0:29:07I don't know how to describe it, but the constant...
0:29:10just... disaster that is YouTube communication.
0:29:16Everybody thought this was a new policy because all of the notifications went out on one day,
0:29:20but it turned out this is a thing they'd been doing in secret for several years.
0:29:24They just never bothered to send out any notifications to anybody
0:29:28about videos being demonetized. Sounds like great. Thumbs up.
0:29:32Great communication there, YouTube, as usual. Par for the course.
0:29:35Let me ask you a question about that part, then I want to step back a little bit.
0:29:39Yeah, sure. So, the idea of it being happening for years, were just people
0:29:43completely unaware of it, because my understanding is now
0:29:46they were showing a little marker in the YouTube Creator Studio that a video
0:29:51was demonetized.
0:29:52So previously they're just not showing that and you just weren't getting the money.
0:29:56This is very hard to know.
0:30:00I have had my own run-ins with demonetization in the past,
0:30:05and it has always been the case that it shows up as a little sad,
0:30:10greyed-out money icon when your video has been demonetized.
0:30:14Yeah, one of our videos that happened to, one of the Cortex videos.
0:30:17Oh, did it?
0:30:18Yeah.
0:30:19Did you ever get a notification? Any reason?
0:30:21It just said it in the little box when I uploaded it before I published it.
0:30:26So then I just removed it and did it again and it was fine.
0:30:29That's always a prank.
0:30:31It wasn't published so I just deleted it and started over.
0:30:35Oh god.
0:30:36Because I figured I'd done something wrong. It just said, "Can't be monetized."
0:30:39And I was like, "Uh, I don't know why so I'll just do it again, shall I?" And it worked.
0:30:43Yeah, it's... this stuff is so frustrating.
0:30:49So my personal experience with demonetization has always been I have to notice.
0:30:56I've never gotten a notification that the video has been demonetized.
0:31:01I have had videos that are showing ads, like when I upload them and publish them,
0:31:06and everything is hunky-dory as far as I know, and it's only when I go back later and check
0:31:11do I see like, "Oh, the green money icon has turned to a grey money icon."
0:31:16So that's something I find weird then.
0:31:18So the videos that have been demonetized or are being demonetized, if ads run on them,
0:31:27who gets the money?
0:31:29Well when that grey icon pops up, there are no more ads showing on the video.
0:31:35Okay, so how do people not know then?
0:31:41Well-
0:31:42If this has been happening for years?
0:31:45The thing is, I think there's a couple of things here.
0:31:50First of all, as you know very well Myke, runner of the Cortex YouTube channel, the
0:31:57advertising rates from Google AdSense on those YouTube videos, how would you describe them
0:32:03Myke?
0:32:04They have advertising rates?
0:32:05Yeah.
0:32:06That's the way I would describe it.
0:32:09Yeah, it's...
0:32:12It's hilariously low.
0:32:13That is really the best way to describe it. It is so low that it is funny. You have to
0:32:20laugh otherwise you cry.
0:32:21Like seriously, if you picked a number, it is lower than that number. It's kind of crazy.
0:32:29It's ridiculous. When we think about the Cortex business, I'm sure you can just mentally round
0:32:38off the YouTube advertising money as zero.
0:32:41Never think about it.
0:32:43Yeah, exactly. It might as well be zero.
0:32:45And so, that thing that you've said right there, like, you don't even think about it, like it doesn't even cross your mind about the advertising money that you get from the YouTube channel for the Cortex numbers.
0:32:54That right there is an indication of how is it possible that people could have not noticed.
0:33:00One of the reasons is that, again, my channel is a very unusual channel with a bunch of the numbers compared to most YouTube channels.
0:33:13And so most YouTube channels don't upload a video once every six weeks. Six weeks if you're lucky.
0:33:20Especially not channels at your subscriber and view size. Because at those rates, why would you not be uploading a video every week?
0:33:28is the usual kind of thinking, right?
0:33:30- Right, yeah, it's totally the usual kind of thinking.
0:33:33Now, the thing is if you look at, for example,
0:33:38the revenue chart of like how much money do I earn
0:33:43every day in advertising from YouTube?
0:33:46Like there's a little analytics chart
0:33:48that you can pull up inside of YouTube to see this.
0:33:50My chart looks like a flat line with a series of spikes,
0:33:55right, coming one every six weeks or so.
0:33:57So it's like nothing spike, nothing spike, nothing spike.
0:34:01And that is extraordinarily rare.
0:34:06Most people who have shown me their equivalent charts,
0:34:10their charts look essentially like flat lines
0:34:14with maybe occasional bumps.
0:34:17Because what they're dealing with
0:34:18is that they're getting like a ton of revenue
0:34:21from the back catalog,
0:34:23but maybe any particular video is not a huge percentage
0:34:26of the monthly take. And this is what happens when you have hundreds and hundreds of videos
0:34:31and you have people who go back through and will watch a ton of your videos in a row.
0:34:35Whereas I don't think I even have like a hundred real videos yet.
0:34:40So lots of people are watching your back catalogue but there's less back catalogue to consume.
0:34:45Exactly, exactly. Whereas with tons of daily vloggers you have literally hundreds and hundreds
0:34:52and hundreds of back catalogue episodes to consume.
0:34:56And I think this also compounds the effect that when you as a creator are looking at the videos that you are uploading,
0:35:03you're only ever seeing the last ten when you sort of casually go log on to YouTube and look through stuff.
0:35:09So if you were not getting any notifications about being demonetized,
0:35:13and if any particular video is a small percentage of what the monthly earnings are,
0:35:19and you're only able to see the last 10 videos at a glance,
0:35:24it's very easy to see how is it that people might not have noticed
0:35:29that they have videos in their back catalogue that were demonetized.
0:35:34And I've seen some examples where some people have discovered that they have literally hundreds of videos
0:35:39that have been demonetized.
0:35:41It's just like, "Oh, whoops!"
0:35:44So I want to go back a little bit to this as an idea.
0:35:48I was very surprised when I saw about all of this that this wasn't happening.
0:35:56Now it turns out that it may have already been happening. Because why would an
0:36:02advertiser want to associate themselves with some of the things that are in this
0:36:07list of stuff? Why would you want your product playing before a video
0:36:14video about X if it doesn't fit with your brand. Like there are some people that would
0:36:20have no problem with their video playing before sexually suggestive content, but there are
0:36:24lots of companies that wouldn't want to be associated with that.
0:36:27Right, but you can imagine that like Durex might want their video in front of sexually
0:36:31suggestive content.
0:36:33Or wouldn't care.
0:36:34Right, or yeah, or wouldn't care. Yeah, like whatever guys.
0:36:37You know, maybe a children's toy company.
0:36:41And I'm sure YouTube's algorithms are smart enough to understand a lot of this stuff anyway.
0:36:46Mhm.
0:36:47But so that's one thing, right?
0:36:49So I imagine that's the case.
0:36:51And I'm not surprised about it.
0:36:53However, it doesn't seem to be happening to a lot of people.
0:36:58So like I've watched a PewDiePie video where PewDiePie is complaining about this.
0:37:03And in his video, he is attempting to break it.
0:37:09But there was still a 30 second unskippable ad that played beforehand.
0:37:14Because you're always going to advertise on PewDiePie.
0:37:17So the rules that they've set out aren't accurate.
0:37:22It doesn't make sense to me.
0:37:23Saying "we will not do this, this, this, this and this, there will be no ads there"
0:37:27isn't true.
0:37:28It's very strange, because of course advertisers wouldn't want it and YouTube should have
0:37:32this in place. It is unsurprising that something like this is in place to me.
0:37:35Like just because like if you imagine me as the YouTube right like as in the
0:37:40person who puts ads on stuff like one of the reasons that all of our shows remain
0:37:45clean is for that reason. Mm-hmm. Right at Relay FM we don't have explicit shows
0:37:50because it just becomes trickier to sell ads there so we just keep it clean. Yeah
0:37:55yeah that's that's totally the case like I bleep curses on Hello Internet not
0:38:01Not because I have some kind of prudish problem with cursing, which I don't because I'm cursing
0:38:07on the show, but I bleep it because iTunes doesn't like it if you have curses in your
0:38:11podcast, right?
0:38:12You have to mark it explicit and it causes problems.
0:38:14Yeah, and it just makes it easier.
0:38:16This is something you don't have to deal with by doing that.
0:38:18It's like a conversation you don't have to have.
0:38:20So I'm not surprised about it, but then, you know, so it doesn't surprise me if this is
0:38:24in place.
0:38:25This should be in place because if I'm an advertiser, I want to be able to disassociate
0:38:29myself with that type of content if I want to.
0:38:32However, it also feels like at the top end of the scale, it's still not a problem.
0:38:40Yeah I mean this is, I don't know, this gets off into a whole side realm, but I often,
0:38:51I look at stuff like this and I always hate lists like this because you look at any of
0:38:57the words. And it's always one of these cases of it's very hard to disagree with any of
0:39:02these words, right? But the devil always comes down into the details by like, "What do you
0:39:09mean by these words?" Like for example, partial nudity. What do you mean by that?
0:39:15Like my arms. I know, right? I'm wearing a t-shirt.
0:39:20How partial is partial nudity?
0:39:22I hate to say this, I know a lot of vloggers who would not be anywhere near where they
0:39:29are right now if they didn't have partial nudity, right?
0:39:34Under the broadest interpretation of these words, right?
0:39:38So it's like, and also something like partial nudity.
0:39:41I'm gonna go out on a wild limb here and say that's a really culturally dependent term.
0:39:49Yeah, like who are you basing that on?
0:39:50Because there are a lot of people that can get upset
0:39:53with even the realm that you consider to be okay.
0:39:57Yeah, exactly.
0:39:58So like, but again, it's like partial nudity,
0:40:00just when you hear it as part of a list
0:40:03and especially when they prime you
0:40:04with like sexually suggestive content,
0:40:06including partial nudity.
0:40:07It's like, well, wait, wait, you know.
0:40:09It's like, what level of suggesting are we talking here?
0:40:12Like that just shouldn't exist.
0:40:13They should just say sexually suggestive content.
0:40:16Like partial nudity is the wrong phrase to use in that scenario.
0:40:21It doesn't make any sense.
0:40:22Right, but the thing is, it's like with this whole list, like running down the list, because
0:40:30these things are just so broad and because they're so interpretive, there is almost no
0:40:37video I could probably find on YouTube that I couldn't stretch one of these definitions
0:40:41to include.
0:40:43In knowing the way that YouTube are, like, with their basically openly hostile practices
0:40:48at times, they may as well have just said any video that we deem unmonetizable.
0:40:54It may as well have just said that.
0:40:56Yeah, and that's whenever I see guidelines like this, this is always the conclusion that
0:41:00I kind of draw, is... and it's one reason why I have a kind of ideological opposition
0:41:07to some of this stuff.
0:41:08Even if it is for the best of intentions, it always comes off as like, we're writing
0:41:14a bunch of intentionally broad rules so that at any point we can demonetize stuff that
0:41:21we just want to.
0:41:22Right?
0:41:23Like, you know, for whatever reason it is.
0:41:25And like you say, we don't want to demonetize PewDiePie's videos because he's a huge number
0:41:32one person on our channel.
0:41:33And I don't think the reason for that is because they don't want to upset PewDiePie.
0:41:37They just want that sweet sweet PewDiePie money.
0:41:40- Yeah, and yeah, I mean,
0:41:42yeah, they've upset PewDiePie enough.
0:41:44- Yeah. (laughs)
0:41:46He makes part of a living based on that now, I think.
0:41:48- Exactly, it does seem like you do mind
0:41:50intentionally provoking himself back.
0:41:52(both laughing)
0:41:53It's like not necessarily a good idea, guys.
0:41:56Leave PewDiePie alone!
0:41:57(laughing)
0:42:00But yeah, so when I look at these lists,
0:42:03that's always my conclusion.
0:42:05And the one that really catches my attention is,
0:42:08for years when people ask about examples of great content on YouTube,
0:42:13I've always pointed to one of my favorite things,
0:42:15which is the Crash Course World History series,
0:42:18starting with John Green, like in episode number one.
0:42:21And you go watch those, and it's an amazing example
0:42:24of great high quality content on YouTube.
0:42:28I am a person who's not a huge fan of history,
0:42:31but those videos were just so well done.
0:42:33So well done.
0:42:35But like Crash Course World History certainly includes sensitive events related to war and political conflicts.
0:42:43Right? Like how is the Opium War not a political conflict?
0:42:49Or a sensitive subject related to war?
0:42:52Or the Holocaust.
0:42:54Yeah, exactly. It's just ludicrously broad to include almost everything.
0:42:59And so I just find this kind of stuff frustrating, right?
0:43:05Like the thing, even what I think is perhaps one of like the clearest ones on this list is swearing,
0:43:13inappropriate language including swearing, but I am always astounded by words other people think
0:43:19are swear words that for me don't even register as swear words.
0:43:23It is very different between me and you, for example.
0:43:26Yeah, yeah, we even have this disagreement.
0:43:28Yep.
0:43:28Where, yeah, I think you're a little sensitive on this topic and I'm always trying to get you to de-bleep stuff.
0:43:34Yeah.
0:43:34You want to bleep too many things, Myke.
0:43:37[laughs]
0:43:38I just go by what the way I was brought up.
0:43:41Right.
0:43:41You know, in Britain there are different curse words.
0:43:44But of course that goes right to the core of the problem.
0:43:47Could you, like looking at this list, could you get a room full of three people to agree on the sub points
0:43:54of what should or should not be included on any of these bullet points?
0:43:57No.
0:43:57Of course you can't and I think when they're writing these guidelines they know.
0:44:02Right, exactly. Like that is, like I don't think that's some kind of accident.
0:44:06I think that that is intentionally part of this and I don't like it because then it leads to
0:44:13capricious and weird and semi-random demonetization of particular channels.
0:44:19And again, just like it seems like some channels that I'm like I'm guessing people at YouTube don't
0:44:25like so much were hit harder than others. And it's like, that's bullshit is what that
0:44:30is. Like it's, it's, it's frustrating.
0:44:32You just demonetized this podcast.
0:44:34Alright, so where is this, where is this right now? Like as we're recording right now, have
0:44:40YouTube backed away from anything? Have they explained things any clearer?
0:44:46I haven't really seen any updates other than just like this is our policy and, you know,
0:44:51we'll let you know.
0:44:52Deal with it.
0:44:53Yeah, exactly. Like this is a thing, we've changed this thing. Just deal with it.
0:44:58And from a creative's perspective, it doesn't seem to be clear either, right?
0:45:02Because now it's like, "Oh, well this has been happening forever."
0:45:05And it's like, "Oh, okay then."
0:45:07Right. Is that better or is that worse? I think it's worse.
0:45:10This week's episode of Cortex is brought to you by FreshBooks.
0:45:15FreshBooks are on a mission to help small business owners save time
0:45:18and avoid the stress that comes with running their businesses.
0:45:22And that starts with pain-free invoicing.
0:45:25FreshBooks has created a super intuitive tool
0:45:27that makes creating and sending invoices simple.
0:45:30It takes just 30 seconds to make an invoice
0:45:32and FreshBooks gives your clients tons of ways to pay you.
0:45:36It's simple for you, it's simple for your clients,
0:45:38and that means you simply get paid.
0:45:41In fact, FreshBooks customers get paid
0:45:43five days faster on average.
0:45:45If you need any reason to use FreshBooks, that is it.
0:45:48Who doesn't need the money sooner?
0:45:50You can also check whether or not your client
0:45:51actually looked at an invoice so they can't give you any excuses about not having received
0:45:56it in the first place.
0:45:57And you can even set up automatic late payment reminders too.
0:46:01FreshBooks starts with the invoicing but it doesn't end there because they also help you
0:46:05track your expenses and your time and have a ton of third party integrations.
0:46:10FreshBooks is offering a 30 day free trial to listeners of this show.
0:46:14No credit card required.
0:46:16So to claim your 30 days of unrestricted use, please go to freshbooks.com/cortex.
0:46:22And please enter Cortex in the "How you heard about us" section so Freshbook knows you came
0:46:26from this show.
0:46:27Thank you so much to Freshbooks for sponsoring Cortex and all of Relay FM.
0:46:32Reading about all of this and kind of trying to understand a little bit about what's happening
0:46:37here has led me to a question that I have for you.
0:46:41Which is basically, I don't understand, knowing you and the way that you work, and as I'm
0:46:48sure many of the people that have listened to this show will also question, I don't understand
0:46:53how you are comfortable enough to leave your revenue in the hands of someone else.
0:47:03You have no control, zero control over the advertising money that comes into you from
0:47:11YouTube's end. They can change the rules whenever they want. All of this is done without telling
0:47:18anybody and you have no way of refining or changing any of the practices that occur.
0:47:28And I don't see how this gels with your ways of working, which is mainly a sense of control,
0:47:36I think, around a lot of the ways that you do business.
0:47:39And I understand that you have trade-offs that you're willing to do for the sake of
0:47:44convenience in a lot of the stuff that you do.
0:47:48But this one feels like a step above that because it is completely like how the money
0:47:56comes in, which is very, very different.
0:47:59Yeah, so you're totally right about that, Myke.
0:48:04And this is I think the kind of meta lesson to draw from this.
0:48:10I mean this to me just strikes me as another example of like one of the many things that
0:48:14occurs with YouTube.
0:48:16And my feeling towards YouTube for a long time has been a bit of like, "Don't be too
0:48:27reliant on it."
0:48:28And I think people who have followed the podcasts and the videos that I make can be aware of
0:48:34that, like putting out a video asking people to sign up to my email list like
0:48:39that was like part of this whole don't want to be too reliant on on YouTube. But
0:48:45there's the real wake-up call for me was like when I first started with YouTube
0:48:51and things start getting successful it's like wow this is this is going really
0:48:54well and I think I'm hitting high enough numbers that I can like maybe leave my
0:49:00job and now I'm hitting high enough numbers it's like okay great like I'm
0:49:03I'm replacing my previous income like this is this is all going this is all going well, and I was kind of living in like
0:49:08YouTube is magic and amazing land until I can pinpoint the exact video which was my
0:49:17My first like rude wake-up call with this this kind of problem
0:49:22And it was the video that is Canada and the United States bizarre borders part 2
0:49:27Which was very popular. I'm looking at now it has like
0:49:311.7 million views, but whenever it went up it was the most
0:49:36rapidly watched video of any video that I had made until that point. You know like the first 48 hours were just huge for some
0:49:43reason like that one just went ridiculously viral and
0:49:46that was one of those videos that I uploaded it to YouTube,
0:49:50everything was fine, and then it was demonetized like an hour later and
0:49:56monetized for maybe a day, a day and a half after that.
0:50:01And I was like, frantically trying to get in touch with YouTube to be like, "What? What is going on with this video?
0:50:08Why are there not ads running against it?" And it was
0:50:12not a fun experience because
0:50:15at that stage, it's like, I needed the money from that video to pay the rent for that month.
0:50:23Like this was this was like a no joke we have a real problem here situation and also given the way my videos are
0:50:31because they tend to be viral that means
0:50:35essentially almost all of the ad money that I'm going to make off of them. I'm making in like the first
0:50:41two to four days and then after that it just drops off tremendously in terms of the number of views
0:50:50And so that was a real panic and a real wake up.
0:50:53And that was the point at which I really started...
0:50:59I think thinking of YouTube less as like a "Boy isn't this exciting, I can't believe I'm doing this for a living, it's totally amazing, everything's perfect" land.
0:51:10And I started thinking of it much more strategically, like, I need to think of this as a business that can create a reliable and stable life for me and my wife.
0:51:26And you can see if you kind of follow the things that happen, like, this is why not two months later there's an announcement video that I was on part of Subbable, which eventually became part of Patreon.
0:51:39Like, how can I make it so that if there is a disaster with this part of the business
0:51:46that I have no control over, that I don't have to go into complete freak-out mode?
0:51:54Because it's just not a good situation to be in.
0:52:00And over the years, I have successfully done that.
0:52:03like this recent demonetization story with YouTube,
0:52:08this was actually one of the times I felt really kind of,
0:52:12in a meta way about the business,
0:52:14I felt relatively good about it
0:52:15because this thing crossed my radar when it happened.
0:52:20But because I was occupied with a bunch of other things
0:52:23at the time, I didn't feel like I have to drop everything
0:52:27right now and focus on this and find out what's going on
0:52:30with my YouTube channel.
0:52:31I felt like this is a thing I can give some time to let it shake out, to see what the
0:52:37situation is, you know, wait for a YouTube response and then see where we are.
0:52:43I don't feel like I need to investigate this right now and I need to be seriously worried
0:52:48about the future of my rental payments.
0:52:52And that's because at this point you're comfortable with the money you have coming in from other
0:52:57revenues that if YouTube explodes into a pile of demonetization, you have revenue coming
0:53:06in from other areas.
0:53:07Exactly.
0:53:08Like this was the number one goal, which was to get to a point where I was not dependent
0:53:14on the flakiest source of income, right?
0:53:18The most unreliable source of income, which is like, maybe your video isn't monetized
0:53:24for like no reason you ever get a good explanation for.
0:53:28And this demonetization thing has actually made me wonder in retrospect,
0:53:32what like, did that video somehow trip one of these things somewhere in the system?
0:53:38Like is that what happened?
0:53:40You know, it's a year after they said they supposedly started doing this.
0:53:43It's like, I just don't know, I wonder.
0:53:45But it's nice to be in a position where I feel like I don't really have to care.
0:53:49Right? It's like, look, you guys have...
0:53:53pushed me into a situation where I feel like I diversified my business much sooner than I might have otherwise
0:54:04because of this kind of thing.
0:54:06And I really do think it's, like for anybody who is self-employed, I don't know when this exactly occurs,
0:54:18I think it's very likely that if you're self-employed, especially at the start, you probably have one big client or one major source of income.
0:54:28And there's, I think that's almost necessary to start out, like that's what gets you going.
0:54:34But there's an inflection point at which you have to realize like this is a real problem.
0:54:40Like you're in a deadly, vulnerable situation if your income is reliant on a single client or a single product.
0:54:53And I feel like probably sooner than you think you should, you should probably start trying to diversify.
0:55:04And it's a funny thing, I've actually had a few meetings with smaller YouTube channels
0:55:09and this is one point that I've actually tried to hit home with people who seemed to be in the phase that I was
0:55:15of like, "Wow, YouTube's amazing!"
0:55:17And like, yes, yes, it is amazing, but like you need to start thinking about diversifying right now.
0:55:20Like, do this before you need to do this so that it is not a disaster that you wake up to one morning.
0:55:29I mean, in the realm of these kind of little problems with YouTube, like this demonetization one is almost certainly the
0:55:37minorest of these things that have ever occurred, but I'm always astounded when there's some kind of explosion on YouTube where
0:55:43somebody just loses their whole channel, right? Like they wake up one morning and YouTube has just removed a channel, you know, like wow.
0:55:50That would be a bad day. That would be a really bad day if
0:55:57if you are entirely dependent on that one thing as your source of income.
0:56:04And for all the office monkeys, try not to think about your employer that way, but it
0:56:06is exactly the same situation.
0:56:08Shhh.
0:56:09Yeah, don't tell them.
0:56:11Keep the office monkeys calm.
0:56:12So I know that in your kind of idea of spreading out your revenue a little bit, part of that
0:56:20and the diversification, part of that is included in the podcasts, right?
0:56:24So they help with that.
0:56:26But YouTube is still a big kind of hole.
0:56:30Whilst you've taken steps that are outside of YouTube, so Patreon and/or your own advertising
0:56:36protect against YouTube monetization stuff, there is nothing protecting YouTube implosion.
0:56:43What do you mean about YouTube just going out of business?
0:56:48Sure.
0:56:49Yeah, it's a...
0:56:51Which is a rare but not impossible thing.
0:56:54But other than YouTube going out of business, your channel being taken down is another part
0:56:59of that.
0:57:00You know, your YouTube business going out of business.
0:57:02Yeah, there are many ways that this can occur, right?
0:57:06And some of the YouTube channel bans seem sort of remarkably arbitrary to me.
0:57:13Again, there are sometimes people who could fit on this list of things YouTube doesn't
0:57:17like, but again, anybody could fit on this list of things YouTube doesn't like.
0:57:21And of course, there's always the possibility everyone can be MySpace.
0:57:26YouTube can be MySpace.
0:57:27It can always happen.
0:57:28Just on Facebook.
0:57:30Exactly.
0:57:31Facebook could do to YouTube what Facebook did to MySpace.
0:57:35Exactly.
0:57:36And, I mean, it is, I have a long list of frustrations with Facebook.
0:57:43But like there is a reason why I eventually gave in and started using my Facebook page
0:57:51more as a place to at least post the videos and to post the blogs.
0:57:57Is the same kind of calculation of, "You know what?
0:58:01Let me just have a foothold here.
0:58:04Let me just have a little bit of an establishment here so that if I ever feel like I need to
0:58:09start shifting weight more, I'm already set to do it.
0:58:14I don't have to be panicking at the absolute last minute.
0:58:17Or it's the same reason why.
0:58:20When Amazon announced their now incredibly popular video service that I only seem to
0:58:24remember when we're discussing it on this podcast, I set up an account on that straight
0:58:30away and I was ready to upload videos to it if it ever existed.
0:58:35I don't even know if it exists.
0:58:37Sorry Amazon video team.
0:58:39I haven't heard anything about you guys. I'm sure it's doing great.
0:58:43But like you want to set up these things before you need them.
0:58:47And that metaphor of feeling like
0:58:51I'm standing on YouTube, but like there's a little
0:58:55tiny Facebook island that I'm on as well that I could maybe
0:58:59start diverting resources to if it looks like the tide
0:59:03shifts. And if it were not for the particular policies of Vimeo
0:59:07and the way they want videos to be done. Like, I'd be doing the same thing on Vimeo.
0:59:10It's just that they, their policies are not particularly friendly towards the way that I want to do business, which is totally fine.
0:59:15They're running their business in a very different way, but that, like, that's
0:59:18that's part of my feeling. It's like, try to be prepared
0:59:22before you need to be prepared.
0:59:26But I think, I don't think this is me being overly cautious. I think it's just a thing that
0:59:34you have to think about and you're forced to realize,
0:59:38like what happened to me, when you do have some kind of technical glitch which just
0:59:44totally cuts off your source of income, your only source of income, for an unknown period of time. Like that is
0:59:51absolutely terrifying when you are self-employed.
0:59:54So my last kind of thought on this. This is the latest edition and a long line of things
1:00:03in which YouTube upsets the creators within their system.
1:00:07Hmm.
1:00:08Is there anything at this point, in your opinion, that YouTube can do to actually make people leave?
1:00:18[laughs]
1:00:20Well, I mean, look.
1:00:22YouTube is benefiting from the network effect.
1:00:25Everybody knows all the videos are on YouTube.
1:00:27YouTube has established the mindshare, particularly in younger viewers, of like, "This is where you go to watch videos."
1:00:34It's essentially TV, and I think that's...
1:00:39that is really, really hard to budge.
1:00:43I think...
1:00:46and this... when was this about, like, was it about a year ago this time? I think it was when YouTube first announced YouTube Red.
1:00:55That to me was perhaps the only time where I thought they could have made an absolutely
1:01:00devastating mistake
1:01:03Which it seemed like they were approaching up against and then I think someone at YouTube realized like oh, it's too late
1:01:10We can't reverse on this
1:01:12But it seemed like they wanted to ban
1:01:14the sponsorships at the end of videos or like brand deals in videos
1:01:22Which again, would totally make sense if they're trying to offer a service where people are
1:01:26paying money so they don't have to see ads.
1:01:31And I think YouTube Red exists in this funny bizarro land where it's like, "Oh, you're
1:01:37paying to not see ads?"
1:01:39But lots of channels make videos that are essentially ads for particular products.
1:01:45Sponsored content.
1:01:46Yeah, like sponsored content or they do what I do, which is like a podcast style ad at the end of the video.
1:01:54And I think YouTube wanted to close the door on that, but they were too late.
1:01:58And that perhaps to me seemed like the only mistake that could have been a total...
1:02:06If you do this, many people will just straight up leave.
1:02:11Because it would make financial sense to straight up leave.
1:02:15because as we have discussed, the YouTube ad revenue, particularly for bigger channels, is not holding anybody there.
1:02:23Like if, you know, it's interesting, like at VidCon, you know, I was talking to some people who run much bigger channels than me
1:02:30and channels that I'm always amazed, like are just huge teams of people.
1:02:34Like I'm, again, always surprised how many people are involved with production sometimes.
1:02:39and for really big YouTube channels that have big teams of people,
1:02:44they literally can't exist without those brand partnerships.
1:02:49Like, as much as I don't always like those videos where it's like,
1:02:51"Okay, this video is essentially a commercial,"
1:02:53if you have a team of 20 people making videos, like, that has to be there.
1:02:58Right? There is no way you can do that without those kind of things.
1:03:03And so that is a case of...
1:03:06I always look at the economics of a situation,
1:03:09and I think YouTube could have made it unviable for a decent number of very big channels to actually exist on YouTube anymore
1:03:19if they had banned sponsorships at the end of videos or branded content in videos.
1:03:26Aside from that, though, I...
1:03:30I mean, it does make me think of, like, Facebook versus Myspace, like, why is it that Facebook took over?
1:03:35Why didn't Myspace last?
1:03:37I think it's like a very interesting question, you know, even before that you could think of like
1:03:41Orkut as a social network that existed like that was really big for a while
1:03:45But then why did it fade like what why do these things come in phases?
1:03:48Who knows?
1:03:51But I can at least say that as a YouTube creator
1:03:56I feel like I always have my eye out for the next video platform
1:04:01And I'm pretty sure I am not the only one who feels that way.
1:04:05That everybody else is just like, ready just in case.
1:04:08But is there going to be something else? I don't know. I don't know.
1:04:13I could see YouTube dominating for, you know, the next 50 years.
1:04:18I could actually, I could very well see that as a possibility.
1:04:21Here's a scenario that I'll paint.
1:04:23Okay.
1:04:24Like a potential one. So, the way that I look at it.
1:04:26at it. Social networks shift like that when they get too big because then your mom is
1:04:33there.
1:04:34Mmm, yeah. I think the, your mom being on the social network is a real genuine problem.
1:04:40Right? Like that is a real shift that occurs that feels like, "Oh."
1:04:44And this is why something like Snapchat is increasing as something, you know, as things
1:04:48like Facebook and Instagram are decreasing, they're feeling the Snapchat effect because
1:04:53kids don't want to go where their parents are.
1:04:55Now that kind of thing won't happen for YouTube because there's no effect, there's no network,
1:05:03right?
1:05:04But what I could see happening there is if YouTube make it difficult for people to create
1:05:10content which is explicit in any of the ways that they are mentioning, it could force creators
1:05:17to go somewhere else to make that type of content which may take people with it.
1:05:24So if you look at someone like PewDiePie, who we talk about all the time on this show
1:05:28now for some reason, he is the most popular YouTuber in the world probably because of
1:05:34the type of thing that he talks about.
1:05:36And a lot of the stuff that he talks about by YouTube's new rules and a lot of the content
1:05:42that he creates should not be able to make money anymore.
1:05:46So let's say that that was actually true, which I don't think is for him, and then he
1:05:50wasn't making any money anymore, right?
1:05:52Like they had clamped down and he wasn't able to make any money from his ads.
1:05:57He may go elsewhere.
1:06:00And if he went elsewhere, his viewers would probably find him.
1:06:05And then if a lot of people did that, that's a way that YouTube could maybe start to lose
1:06:09its footing.
1:06:11If they make it too difficult for people, it's like, you know, what some people would
1:06:14call censoring.
1:06:16Like in some kind of roundabout way.
1:06:18Whilst they're not actually saying you can't make this type of content, what they are saying
1:06:24is if you make this type of content you can't make any money anymore, this may force some
1:06:29people to move somewhere else and then if they do it may take their audiences with them.
1:06:34Or I think it could also have an effect on smaller starting creators.
1:06:40Yeah, there's two sides to this.
1:06:44there's the people already there entrenched,
1:06:46and then there's the people starting out.
1:06:48And either of those things changing could affect YouTube.
1:06:53- Yeah.
1:06:54- So that's how I see they could go away.
1:06:56- I really do wish there was a real YouTube competitor.
1:06:59- Yeah, because it would make YouTube better.
1:07:01- Yeah, it totally would.
1:07:02I mean, it's just an example
1:07:04of you can see a kind of monopoly effect,
1:07:05but I think about it all the time.
1:07:07It's like, man, I wish there was something else
1:07:09that was even just a quarter as big as YouTube.
1:07:12Like I would be so much happier with that.
1:07:15- Because your only competitor is actually kind of worse.
1:07:18Which is Facebook.
1:07:19- Yeah, Facebook is awful.
1:07:21Like Facebook I will reluctantly go to
1:07:24if I have no other option.
1:07:26Like the ocean has swallowed all of the islands
1:07:28and my tiny Facebook outpost is the only place
1:07:31that is left to go.
1:07:32Like and then I will go there.
1:07:34While I am simultaneously maintaining the RSS feed
1:07:37for my videos as well, which I still operate
1:07:39also as a kind of fallback like just in cases.
1:07:42Yeah, but it's like Facebook is not an attractive option.
1:07:46I would love to have an option that I could feel good about uploading my videos on that
1:07:54was also financially viable.
1:07:57I mean essentially it's like, again, I want to be clear, I totally understand why they
1:08:01don't do it, but I would love it if I could upload my videos onto Vimeo and also make
1:08:05money from them on Vimeo.
1:08:07I would do that in a heartbeat and I'm sure there would be a ton of other people who would
1:08:12do that as well because it's like even just having Vimeo to balance it would be fantastic.
1:08:17Your RSS feed always makes me laugh because it reminds me of like a doomsday bunker.
1:08:24That is totally what my video RSS feed is.
1:08:28The RSS feed is just full of cans of beans.
1:08:31Exactly, like there's one light bulb in the ceiling which flickers, there's an air filtration
1:08:37system down there and there's 10 years worth of beans stored up and a mattress
1:08:42and a table and a microphone to record and one sad old computer like that is
1:08:47like one of those wool blankets that is impossibly itchy yeah that's in over
1:08:51there in the corner I will I will totally agree with it because yes that
1:08:55is the feeling in my mind too of like all has been lost like what can we
1:09:00retreat to, this is the final place to crawl to for shelter.
1:09:08There is one last thing in your shelter though.
1:09:10What?
1:09:11A steam-powered dishwasher.
1:09:12Yes, a steam-powered dishwasher.
1:09:14Because even in a doomsday scenario, you'd be a savage to wash your own dishes.
1:09:18Yeah, you can't waste your life like that.
1:09:21Today's episode of Cortex is brought to you in part by Blue Apron, the company on a mission
1:09:26to make incredible home cooking accessible to everyone.
1:09:30For less than $10 a meal, Blue Apron delivers seasonal recipes along with fresh high quality
1:09:35ingredients to help you make delicious home cooked meals.
1:09:40Each Blue Apron meal comes with a step by step easy to follow recipe card and pre proportioned
1:09:44ingredients that can be prepared in 40 minutes or less.
1:09:48You just get the ingredients you need.
1:09:52You can customise your recipes each week based on your own dietary preferences and choose
1:09:57a delivery option that fits your needs. There's no weekly commitment so you only get deliveries
1:10:01when you want them and Blue Apron delivers to 99% of the continental United States.
1:10:07New recipes are created each week by Blue Apron's culinary team and are not repeated
1:10:12within a year. Cooked meals like lemon chicken and green beans with a parmesan roasted summer
1:10:17squash and potato or serrano pepper and goat's cheese burgers with zucchini slaw. How amazing
1:10:24does that sound? Not only do you get access to all this incredible food that's going to be
1:10:27delivered straight to you and all the recipes that you need, by cooking with Blue Apron frequently,
1:10:32you're also going to learn new skills and new recipes for yourself that you can do at any time.
1:10:37Blue Apron knows that when you cook with fresh ingredients that support a more sustainable food
1:10:41system, you can make yourself incredible meals. Blue Apron sets the highest quality standards
1:10:46for their community of artisanal suppliers, family run farms, fisheries and ranchers.
1:10:51Whether it's Japanese Ramen Noodles, Wild Caught Alaskan Salmon or Heirloom Tomatoes,
1:10:55Blue Apron brings you the best. Check out this week's menu and get your
1:10:593 meals free with free shipping by going to blueapron.com/cortex. You'll love how good it
1:11:06feels and tastes to create incredible home cooked meals with Blue Apron so don't wait,
1:11:10Visit Blueapron.com/Cortex for your first three meals for free with free shipping.
1:11:16Thank you so much to Blue Apron for their support of Cortex and Relay FM.
1:11:20Blue Apron, a better way to cook.
1:11:22Listener John wrote in, and John was interested to understand
1:11:27how the MacBook Adorable lasted over the summer.
1:11:30Last time we spoke about Little Adorable was when the battery died many episodes ago
1:11:36whilst we were recording, and we have since recorded a selection of episodes of using
1:11:43that machine whilst you've been gallivanting around. And of course you have been using
1:11:49it over Cortexmas to get your work done and I assume record some episodes of Hello Internet
1:11:54as well, and maybe even do some video work on it. So how did this purchase fair for you?
1:12:03I'm gonna say it was an absolutely fantastic purchase.
1:12:07Okay.
1:12:08I have to say like...
1:12:09The MacBook Adorable was...
1:12:14everything that I kind of hoped that it would be.
1:12:18We had that discussion about...
1:12:20rethinking your devices, like not falling into old assumptions about
1:12:25what is the equipment that you really need right now
1:12:28and trying to reframe things.
1:12:31And my whole purpose for getting the MacBook adorable was I am trying to maximize portability
1:12:38over a period of time in which I'm going to be traveling a lot. Like what is the piece of
1:12:44equipment that I can get that will serve this purpose? And this itty bitty MacBook is the
1:12:52equipment that will do this. Comes with some interesting trade-offs, the OnePort as we found
1:12:57out on the day when I opened it.
1:12:59But, I mean, I essentially discovered, like, I can run all of the necessary parts of my business off of this little machine.
1:13:10I can record the podcast without a problem, I can edit the podcast without a problem.
1:13:16I did do some very, very light video work, but I was also able to export 4K video on
1:13:26the MacBook, not at a lightning speed, but at a totally satisfactory pace.
1:13:33So I've got to say, huge thumbs up to the MacBook Adorable team.
1:13:40I'm really impressed with this little machine for the role that I need it.
1:13:47And I just really, really, really like it.
1:13:51So having also traveled over this summer, I really wish I bought one in June.
1:13:57Because I was waiting for these Macs that never came.
1:14:02Yeah, well, I mean, in some ways this conversation is an entirely hypothetical conversation.
1:14:09Like, do you like the MacBook Adorable? Do you not like the MacBook Adorable?
1:14:12It doesn't really matter because as far as I can tell, this is the only computer that
1:14:17Apple makes anymore. So everybody's going to be buying a MacBook Adorable eventually.
1:14:22They don't make any other computers. So you should have bought one.
1:14:25What about the iMac that you're using right now?
1:14:27Yeah, it's a legacy piece of equipment. When was the last time they updated it? Like a
1:14:31year ago? Who knows?
1:14:33Who knows?
1:14:34The iMac was updated 338 days ago.
1:14:38- But fine. - Infinity in computer time.
1:14:40- It's not over a thousand, like some computers.
1:14:43- Yeah, like some computers we could name.
1:14:45All of the things that you might worry about
1:14:47with the little MacBook, again, for me,
1:14:51were not any problem.
1:14:53Like I didn't have any issue with the battery life.
1:14:56It was totally fine.
1:14:58I was largely using it plugged in, however,
1:15:02with adapters and things, so that,
1:15:03like maybe if you're trying to do something
1:15:06like, export 4K video on the battery, the battery might not last very long, because
1:15:12I think it's probably optimized to be efficient, as opposed to like, being able to just have
1:15:16a bunch of battery to grind through a difficult task.
1:15:19But I'm totally impressed by it.
1:15:25And I was speaking to someone who does development on the MacBook Adorable, like they just run
1:15:31Xcode on it.
1:15:32I get the impression that that kind of thing is very CPU intense and they seem totally happy with using the machine.
1:15:39So, yeah, I'm just-- I really don't have any complaints about it.
1:15:47Like, I'm trying to, like, shuffle through my mind and be like, "Were there things that I was really annoyed about?"
1:15:51And the answer is no.
1:15:54I mean, even the thing that's interesting to me is the keyboard.
1:15:59keyboard, while I don't love the keyboard, having used the iPad Pro keyboard cover tremendously
1:16:09extensively and really loving that keyboard cover really helped me kind of get used to
1:16:15the MacBook Adorables keyboard.
1:16:17And so over the summer I was like, "Oh, okay."
1:16:18I started doing more typing on it.
1:16:20I was doing some light administration work and it was totally fine.
1:16:23And I was like, "Okay, I could get used to this keyboard."
1:16:26But then I had the funny experience actually just yesterday that for a variety of reasons
1:16:31I had to lug out my old brick of obligation, my old MacBook Pro 15-inch thing.
1:16:37Like, okay, take it out, you know, on the table, blow off the dust, open it up, boot
1:16:43it up.
1:16:44And I used the keyboard and I was like, "This keyboard is garbage!
1:16:47Like this is awful to use!
1:16:50How did I ever type on this thing?"
1:16:52It was a really astounding experience to go back to those dome switches for a keyboard
1:16:59and just a funny thing when you realize you've gotten used to something else and then you
1:17:05can feel the terribleness of the old thing that you used to use which you just never
1:17:11really noticed.
1:17:12Like I was never a super fan of laptop keyboards mainly because I like mechanical keyboards
1:17:18because they are the best. But it's like, man, now if I have to choose between the old-fashioned
1:17:24MacBook Pro keyboard and the MacBook keyboard, like, I will positively choose that MacBook
1:17:30keyboard any day of the week. It's awful typing on the old keyboard.
1:17:35Do you think, though, that this machine would last a few years for you?
1:17:39Well, that depends essentially entirely on what does my podcasting workflow look like
1:17:45in the future. There were a couple of times that the MacBook kind of stuttered
1:17:51out when I was editing a very very complicated logic file towards the end.
1:17:56Nothing major, like nothing even really worth complaining about, but you know as
1:18:02these things happen, like when software updates occur, software gets bigger, it
1:18:07takes more CPU cycles to run, you know, if you change microphones like you can start
1:18:12using bigger and bigger files, like, there's a way I can imagine that this particular MacBook,
1:18:18for me, might not be a product that would last several years and I would have to replace
1:18:22a computer at some point.
1:18:24But it really does feel entirely contingent on, assuming that I am doing podcasting several
1:18:32years from now, what does that whole setup look like?
1:18:36Ideally I would still love to transition all of that into my iPad Pro, but I think there's
1:18:41a variety of reasons why that is extremely unlikely to occur, mostly related to the fact
1:18:46that I work with other people when it comes to podcasting, so it's not just about the
1:18:50tools that I use, it's about tools that you can use with other people.
1:18:54And as far as I know, there is currently no professional-grade iPad Pro editing software
1:19:01that also allows multiple users to work on a single file, and I imagine that there probably
1:19:07won't be forever, possibly.
1:19:10Well, never say never.
1:19:12Never say never, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one.
1:19:16So are you gonna wait for the next MacBook, Myke, forever? Or are you gonna give in and buy a little MacBook?
1:19:22Well, I feel like at this point I might as well wait and see what the next announcements are gonna be.
1:19:27Isn't that what you said the last time we spoke about this?
1:19:29Yeah, but I haven't got a summer of traveling now.
1:19:31Yeah, I guess that's true.
1:19:33Like the majority of my traveling is now done for the year. So it does it's not an issue for me now.
1:19:38I may as well wait because they may rev the adorable again.
1:19:43Mhmm.
1:19:44Yeah.
1:19:45Like it's the least likely to happen but they might do it so there's no point in me doing
1:19:48it now until I can at least see what the offerings are but the new MacBook Pro is going to have
1:19:54to offer significant improvements for me now to consider that over the adorable.
1:20:00Mhmm.
1:20:01It's interesting to hear.
1:20:02Because dragging around this laptop this summer I really just don't want to keep doing that
1:20:07anymore because also like I've adjusted the way that I travel and record while I'm traveling
1:20:13quite significantly this year to the point where I don't even know if I really need the
1:20:18power anymore.
1:20:19Like I'm basically now I'm trying to make sure that I never need to edit on a plane
1:20:26which is something I used to do a lot of but now I just don't want to do that anymore because
1:20:31I've found the value in sleeping on airplanes.
1:20:33Right. Yeah, I was- you always mentioned to me whenever you were traveling like,
1:20:37"Oh, I'll be editing the shows on the plane."
1:20:39And I never understood how you could do that because-
1:20:41I mean, it is a really good thing to do if you have something to do.
1:20:45Like, if I'm going to work, editing is good because it takes lots of time to do.
1:20:49So it helps the time go by.
1:20:51Yeah. It just seemed to me like it's a poor environment spatially for doing that kind of thing.
1:20:58I feel like if I'm editing a podcast, even if I'm on a small screen,
1:21:00Like I want to be able to have both hands on the desk.
1:21:03I want to have my tablet in front of me.
1:21:05I want space to do this.
1:21:07I get that.
1:21:07But for me, if I'm ever going to edit on a laptop, it's never a good environment.
1:21:12Right, right.
1:21:13So like it doesn't matter if I'm editing on a laptop in my hotel room or on the plane,
1:21:16it's never good.
1:21:18So I may as well go with good and can't do anything else.
1:21:22You know, like work-wise, like this is really for me, the only thing I can do work-wise
1:21:26on a plane is edit a podcast.
1:21:29because you never know if you're gonna get internet even if they tell you you're going to.
1:21:33It sometimes even if you pay for it, it doesn't matter. You know, you may or may not get wi-fi on a plane.
1:21:38No, the rule for flying is never buy the wi-fi. Just don't do it.
1:21:42But that's your rule.
1:21:43That's the rule.
1:21:44I like to feel connected. It's part of the loneliness problem, you know.
1:21:47Oh Jesus, okay.
1:21:48So I, you know, I've now also... I try and do my best to get all of my editing done before I leave
1:21:56and then when I am away I don't seem to edit the shows that I record really. I mean a lot
1:22:03of the time I'm not even recording on my own equipment anymore I'm recording on somebody
1:22:07else's equipment and or not recording on the machine that I'm you know that I have with
1:22:14me I'm like recording to a solid-state recorder or something or somebody else's computer is
1:22:18the way that I seem to be doing it these days. So really like on the show the trip that I
1:22:24I just took the two podcasts that I recorded.
1:22:27I didn't edit one of them, it was edited by Steven,
1:22:31and the other one I'm just recording to edit later.
1:22:34So in all honesty, I don't really need
1:22:37a big powerful machine anymore it feels like,
1:22:40but if the MacBook Pro is really cool
1:22:44and is thinner and lighter to a point
1:22:49that is close enough to the MacBook,
1:22:51I would consider that machine
1:22:53because then I have closer to the best of both worlds
1:22:57because I then have something that's thinner and lighter
1:23:00than what I have, which is what I'm looking for,
1:23:02plus I have the power at hand if and when I need it.
1:23:05Because if I do need it, I'm really gonna regret that.
1:23:09So I'm still willing to wait and see,
1:23:13but right now I am leaning adorable.
1:23:16Just because I'm looking to, as we have spoken about,
1:23:21just optimize for thinness and lightness?
1:23:23- Whenever you're traveling, every pound counts.
1:23:31When I'm packing for stuff, I'm always obsessed
1:23:36with trying to really minimize the weight.
1:23:40And sometimes when I'm in packing mode,
1:23:42I think, am I going too far?
1:23:45Am I really trying to cut this down too much
1:23:48and cut out things that I might want
1:23:50that I might need later on and the answer when I'm actually traveling is
1:23:54always no. When I'm actually traveling I'm always looking at stuff and thinking
1:23:58like I got to cut this out next time right I can I can do without this and
1:24:01yeah so when when you're traveling a bunch every every ounce counts and and
1:24:09the difference between the MacBook Pro and the MacBook really does matter like
1:24:14the smallness of it the thinness of it the lightness of it this is this is one
1:24:18case for this machine that it I do feel like Apple make it keep making it
1:24:22thinner became making it lighter it's great like go go as close as you can to
1:24:26the sheet of paper that we all know you want and and I will I will go with you
1:24:31as long as I can ultimately plug in a microphone to it I'm totally fine so
1:24:37talking about having to get used to things like one port mm-hmm iPhone did
1:24:45The new iPhone has been announced by the time this show comes out.
1:24:50I will have one because I am going tomorrow as we record this to pick it up at the store
1:24:57at early o'clock in the morning.
1:25:00What's early o'clock in the morning?
1:25:018.15 is my reservation time.
1:25:03That is pretty early for you.
1:25:05It's pretty early to go to a store.
1:25:07And you live on essentially American East Coast time.
1:25:10It's nice and early but I want to have my phone.
1:25:13You gotta have your phone.
1:25:14of your job. It's part of my job. I would legitimately consider it irresponsible for you
1:25:20not to have a new phone as soon as possible. Like this is this is literally work. I agree completely
1:25:26with the phone definitely because I feel like if people tuned into the shows where I talk about
1:25:32technology news and I'm like yeah no I just didn't get one they would kind of be like who is this guy
1:25:38that's my feeling. Let's say Apple came out with a phone that was just universally regarded as a
1:25:44terrible phone. They do the announcements and they're like "oh this year we made the back out of soap and we went back to a low resolution screen because 480p is all anybody needs and it's $1000."
1:25:58I would think you should still buy that phone because it's part of your job to talk about what are the phones. Even if you knew it was bad, you are in a position where you just have to buy a phone every year to talk about it on the shows.
1:26:12So I'm very glad to know that you're gonna be there at early o'clock in the morning to get your little mic hands
1:26:18Around a new phone. That's quite big actually. That's why you go with the plus. Exactly because I can I can take that so
1:26:25Are you getting one? Are you sticking with your ancient?
1:26:30Ancient. Ancient SE. I mean it is ancient at this point. It's very old guts inside of that thing.
1:26:37Like ancient analog audio devices pretty much. It was a line. I really appreciate it in the keynote
1:26:43So I knew I knew this moment was going to come when I bought the SE
1:26:50Because I thought like oh there's gonna be is gonna be an Apple announcement
1:26:54they're going to have a new phone and they're going to have like ooh, look at this it's all shiny and new and
1:26:59I know my personality. I do like having the new things and
1:27:03it's like oh here's some some stuff we can demo like I knew this day was going to come and
1:27:08When I was watching the presentation my tagline for the iPhone 7 like if they're making an Apple poster
1:27:16It's like this iPhone 7 at the top
1:27:18It has a beautiful picture of the iPhone then you can put a little quote from CGP Grey on the bottom and that quote would
1:27:23be
1:27:24Most skippable iPhone generation ever hmm. This is the most skippable one
1:27:29I think they have ever made like you usually when people complain about the S
1:27:33Generations like like the 4s or the 5s I often think people just like don't really understand the changes that have occurred
1:27:41You know particularly like the 4s everyone was like, oh it looks the same
1:27:44It's all like no the 4s is an incredible improvement over the 4. I
1:27:47Just think this iPhone 7 I am amazed that they didn't call it like the iPhone 6e
1:27:53Right or just throw some other letter on the back of it
1:27:56I'm just kind of amazed that they bothered calling it the iPhone 7.
1:28:00In retrospect that would have been a bad idea because it would have been calling out the same design too heavily.
1:28:06Well, this kind of goes into when I was watching the presentation. There's
1:28:12there's a thing that sometimes happens in presentations when someone's trying really hard to convince you of a thing and I just kept being
1:28:18aware of like how often and how much they were leaning on words like "new" and "revolutionary" and I
1:28:26I was just aware like, I think you're leaning on these words harder than normal because the reality is the exact
1:28:31reverse of this. Now, I understand that like on the internals of the phone, right, it is much faster.
1:28:38The like the low energy processors look like a really cool addition. There is actually longer battery life,
1:28:44which is like a miracle from God, right, that the phone lasts longer. The waterproofing as well, like okay, that's great.
1:28:50It's as waterproof as the previous generation watch was is my sort of understanding of it.
1:28:55Like all of that stuff is great. Dual cameras.
1:29:00The dual cameras, I was kind of disappointed in that but that's a slide of the story. I don't know,
1:29:08I feel like watching that almost always when the new phones come out I have a real visceral desire
1:29:17to be like "man there's a cool thing I want to get it" even if it's something like 3D touch.
1:29:22I want to get the phone that has 3D touch because I want to experience what this is.
1:29:28Like what does Apple think this is going to be? Is this going to change my interaction with the device?
1:29:32Sometimes the answer is no, right? Like it doesn't really matter at all.
1:29:35But this phone, I feel like, okay, I...
1:29:39The only thing that to me is a real draw is
1:29:45the dual camera system. That is the only thing I can point to which would be like, man,
1:29:51it would be awesome to have that dual camera system. But when I think about the
1:29:58place of the phone in my life now, I'm really happy with having a smaller phone.
1:30:07And if Apple had actually made this generation's phone significantly lighter
1:30:14or significantly smaller with the 7 Plus. I could have maybe talked
1:30:21myself into getting it, but this is the one year where it's like, "Eh, it's essentially
1:30:26the same weight and it's exactly the same size." And so it's really a question
1:30:30of, "Do I want to have something bigger in my pocket for, in comparison to the 6E,
1:30:38like a significantly upgraded camera?" The biggest knock against the SE is the
1:30:43camera is like okay. It's not fantastic or anything. It's okay. But switching from that
1:30:48to the dual camera system would be a hell of an improvement. But I feel like I am really
1:30:53happy with the move that I have made to try to minimize the centrality of the phone in
1:31:01my life. And I feel doubly secure in this after this past summer where whenever I'm
1:31:09traveling, a lot of the stuff that I do to normally lock down the phone that, you
1:31:14know, people think I'm crazy about, like turning off notifications from all kinds
1:31:17of stuff, disabling the App Store, disabling Safari, like turning off
1:31:22absolutely everything that buzzes or makes noise. When I'm traveling I have to
1:31:28loosen up a bunch of those restrictions because otherwise it's just it's just
1:31:32too inconvenient because I'm in too many situations where like I need to
1:31:35communicate with someone now and my usual three-day response time to an
1:31:40iMessage is not adequate like when you're trying to meet up with somebody
1:31:42or I need to get notifications or I need to look up something on Safari. I've
1:31:48come off of a summer of having the phone be more central in my life than it
1:31:53normally was and now that I've pulled that back again I feel like no I really
1:31:58like having a phone that does fewer and fewer things rather than more things
1:32:05And I think the like the 7 Plus is a phone that calls to you to do more with it.
1:32:12Like it, its size asks of you to do more with it.
1:32:17And if it's in in your pocket as this huge device like it's it's just more of a focus.
1:32:23So I feel like I'm really on on board with the idea of like minimizing the phone in my life.
1:32:30and the SE fits into that perfectly. I like having the smaller device.
1:32:37I, just for comparison, I was kind of playing around with my wife's phone to see,
1:32:42it's been a long time since I've used that size phone, like oh maybe I could go back to the middle size phone,
1:32:47and again it's like boy do I hate this size. This size for me is just the exact wrong size. I really don't like it.
1:32:53So yeah, I find myself in this funny position of this is the first time Apple has released a generation of phone
1:33:02that I feel like I am unconvinced to switch products.
1:33:06I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with what you're saying.
1:33:12Convince me I'm wrong.
1:33:13Well, no. I mean, that is a fool's errand.
1:33:17But I mean like, I'd be happy to buy another phone if you could convince me, obviously I'd be happy to buy it.
1:33:23My point here isn't to convince you, it's just to state my opinion.
1:33:27I understand what you're saying about most skippable on the surface of it,
1:33:33but I think that a lot of the component parts that they've changed make this as compelling an iPhone upgrade as any other.
1:33:41But by not changing the design like the actual hardware design it taints it in people's mind for one reason or another and for you
1:33:48That is you want something physically smaller to hold
1:33:52So that's your issue if they would have done what everybody expects them to do next time which is to reduce the bezels
1:34:01This would have been a perfect phone for you
1:34:04Because I mean when you break it down the screen is way brighter and has the wider color gamut like what we're used to one
1:34:11iPads. The camera is significantly better no matter what one you go with
1:34:15including the front-facing camera. It is incredibly more powerful, it has longer
1:34:21battery life, has stereo speakers, waterproofing, like there is a ton of
1:34:27stuff here which is very interesting which I think makes for a bigger than an
1:34:33S update would usually be. But the fact that it's in the same kind of hardware
1:34:40case by and large makes it a less compelling phone for you like because I
1:34:45think that no matter what they did unless they would have made it smaller
1:34:49you would never have bought it.
1:34:51I mean that's-
1:34:54Because they have all of the parts here that would usually make you upgrade.
1:34:58Yeah the camera is by far in a way the biggest draw. That's the thing
1:35:03that's the biggest pull. The waterproofing is like well I've never
1:35:07really had a problem with water around my phone. I don't take my phone to the beach
1:35:12because I don't like to go to the beach. But now you can.
1:35:14Yeah but I'm not gonna go to the beach with my phone.
1:35:16So like for example I listen to podcasts in the bath and in the shower, right? You can
1:35:22just have your phone in the shower cubicle with no problem.
1:35:25Yeah but see I think you don't understand how I prefer not to use my phone. I wouldn't
1:35:32want to bring my phone into the shower with me even if it was waterproof.
1:35:35Again, I'm really, I have to underscore the point that I'm not trying to explicitly convince you.
1:35:42Right, right, right.
1:35:43Right, I'm just making my case.
1:35:45I know what you're saying, and I agree that I think people overvalue a physical design change.
1:35:53People just like that it looks different.
1:35:55You know, and that's just, that's a thing that humans value, and that's totally fine.
1:36:00And I think that that does add a bit to the underwhelmingness of it.
1:36:03of it, but it's interesting that for me anyway this is a point at which I would want a physical
1:36:10design change not because I feel like "oh this phone looks old" but because I want a
1:36:15design change that would be a utility improvement.
1:36:18And it's like "I'm in this awkward position of the size that I like is too big around
1:36:26the screen and too heavy around the screen."
1:36:30And, like I suspect, I don't know, but I've, the more I think about it, I have this like
1:36:39nagging feeling that maybe the iPhone SE was a one-off device.
1:36:47That maybe Apple won't ever make a phone in this size again.
1:36:52And part of that is just wondering about if next year they bring in the bezels and bring
1:36:57it a lot closer to a piece of glass, that maybe they decide that this is enough of a
1:37:03change that people who want smaller phones are also happy, but everybody still gets big
1:37:09screens.
1:37:10And it may very well be the case that if they bring in the bezels like, "Oh, then I will
1:37:14find the regular size totally acceptable."
1:37:17But so I think I may be using a dead phone, which is even more of a push for me to like...
1:37:23I always feel like I'm happy to kind of get on board with the future,
1:37:26and if this phone is a phone that will never be updated,
1:37:29then why don't you just get used to the different thing now,
1:37:32instead of waiting until you absolutely have to?
1:37:34Like, I'm okay with that.
1:37:36But even still, I just don't feel the desire to have
1:37:40the 7+ in my pocket
1:37:43when I'm at the gym for the next year, right?
1:37:46Which is one of the places where the phone bothers me the most
1:37:49in terms of size and using it, or like...
1:37:53Just a bunch of places where that is the case.
1:37:56But I don't know, I've been talking to a few people about whether they--
1:38:00'cause of course, when you're known as the tech person in your circle,
1:38:03everybody asks you the questions about should they or should they not get the things.
1:38:07And I find this a difficult phone to pitch to people,
1:38:12especially if they're just going for the regular phone size, right?
1:38:16Like they have a 6s and they want to know if they should get the 7.
1:38:19and kind of talking through with them, it's, I feel like it's a little hard to point to a particular thing to be like,
1:38:25"This is an awesome reason why you should get this phone."
1:38:28So that's why my tagline is "Most Skippable Phone Ever."
1:38:32So for me, again, I don't agree. I think there are a lot of great reasons,
1:38:36but I'm not pushing this one so hard on people because I also have to tell them that things are going away
1:38:42and I just can't be bothered to have that conversation with people.
1:38:45Yeah. Well, the other thing which we don't know at this point,
1:38:49which is my particular real side-eye at the phone.
1:38:55And of course, we don't know because they're not in our hands yet.
1:38:58But man, when they started talking about that solid-state home button...
1:39:01Yeah, it's gonna suck. I have no doubt it's gonna suck so bad.
1:39:04I'm so upset about this.
1:39:06That's the thing to me, which is like, no matter how much you love a camera,
1:39:11do you press the home button more than you use the camera?
1:39:15It's like, yes, by a factor of a thousand.
1:39:18Right?
1:39:19And so, if and when Apple produces their all glass, no bezel phone,
1:39:25and there's some home button that you just have to get used to
1:39:29because there's no moving parts and Apple has finally achieved the dream,
1:39:32it's like, okay, fine, I'll move then.
1:39:34But that home button, like, I just worry about the first generation of it with RSI issues.
1:39:40It's like, that's the kind of thing where it's like,
1:39:42I don't want to board the future if it's going to physically hurt.
1:39:46And I just...
1:39:47I haven't heard anybody say like,
1:39:49"Wow, this home button is really convincing in the illusion of its clicking."
1:39:53So that to me is one major, major potential downside to it.
1:39:58Like, I'll be super curious to go into an Apple store,
1:40:02probably if I'm near one, on Friday.
1:40:03Like, I'll wander in just to see if I can...
1:40:05I can see what it actually feels like in person.
1:40:08But I'm not... I'm not holding out my hopes of like,
1:40:10"Oh boy, it's an amazing new home button that I'm going to click hundreds of times a day
1:40:15in a slightly uncomfortable way that will accelerate over time to greater and greater
1:40:19discomfort."
1:40:20Yeah, I'm unconvinced about this.
1:40:24I'm just not sure yet.
1:40:26I don't know if it's necessarily going to cause too much discomfort because it would
1:40:31just be like 3D touch, which if I can set it super light, like my 3D touch is at the
1:40:36latest, which means I barely have to do it.
1:40:42Basically like for me it just feels like I just need to rest my finger on the screen
1:40:46for a little longer than normal and 3D Touch will activate.
1:40:49If I can do that then I'll be fine with it.
1:40:51My feeling is just I know it's not going to be a satisfying click.
1:40:56The way it's described, like people describing it as like the whole phone kind of shaking,
1:40:59I don't like the sound of that.
1:41:01It doesn't sound good at all.
1:41:02But I'll find out tomorrow I guess.
1:41:06That sounds absolutely terrible.
1:41:08What about the Apple Watch?
1:41:09I know that you're a very happy Apple Watch user.
1:41:11Are you considering upgrading?
1:41:13Oh yeah, that for me was an instant buy.
1:41:16Oh see this isn't for me!
1:41:18I don't understand you anymore.
1:41:21Instant buy on the Apple Watch, of course.
1:41:22Why?
1:41:23Like, that makes even less ima- I need you to try and explain this to me then in a way
1:41:28that makes sense in your brain, because that doesn't make sense in mine.
1:41:31Okay, why do you think it doesn't make sense?
1:41:34It's the same, like nothing in there is like a must have.
1:41:38It's the same stuff.
1:41:39Faster processor, better waterproofing.
1:41:42It's exactly what's in the iPhone.
1:41:44It doesn't look any different.
1:41:45It's thicker.
1:41:46It's actually thicker.
1:41:48The battery life is better.
1:41:50Right.
1:41:51Well, what then?
1:41:52But what do you mean what?
1:41:54Like I'm a very happy Apple Watch user.
1:41:57As I am a very happy iPhone user.
1:42:00Right, right.
1:42:02And so I feel like I do want the GPS in the watch.
1:42:08That is definitely a feature that I want.
1:42:10I've been doing a bunch of running and in the theme of how can I remove the phone from
1:42:16the centrality of my life, the GPS while doing some exercise outside, that is actually a
1:42:22big feature for me.
1:42:23That is definitely a thing that I want to have.
1:42:26So it's like tick mark for that one.
1:42:29And I'm also happier to pay for the much brighter screen and a little bit of improved battery life.
1:42:34Like, that is one thing where, like this summary in particular, I was aware that the--
1:42:40perhaps the least optimal situation in which to try to read the face of an Apple Watch is
1:42:45if you are standing in the desert at high noon with sunglasses on and you go to check something on your watch,
1:42:52it's gonna be a real hard read on that screen.
1:42:54I understand that is perhaps the most sub-optimal situation in which to ever read an Apple Watch.
1:42:59I like that standing in the desert at high noon makes it sound like you were on a vision
1:43:03quest.
1:43:04Maybe I was.
1:43:05While eating mushrooms also makes it very difficult to read the face of the Apple Watch.
1:43:09It looks like a painting.
1:43:14But there are enough times, even just in the UK I'm aware, like if I'm outside that the
1:43:18watch face is not super easy to read in the sun, so it's like, "Okay, great, you made
1:43:22screenwriter it's a little bit easier to read. I am happy to go along with that.
1:43:26The waterproofing thing is not a huge deal for me because I don't do swimming and I have already
1:43:34been wearing this watch for you know whatever it is a year and a half in the shower without any
1:43:38problems at all. But I'm also feeling like a little faster with the processor. I'm also happy
1:43:43for that so this is all thumbs up for me. Like Apple Watch better without any significant
1:43:51downsides. I don't really care about the thickness. I'm actually... I wish Apple would make a bigger
1:43:55Apple Watch. I think they should have like a 40... what is it? 44 millimeter version, right? Because
1:44:00it's like 38, 42, 44. That's what I would want. So I don't mind the bigness at all. So to me, I see
1:44:06like no downside, all upside, no brainer, new watch ordered. Delivered tomorrow, hopefully.
1:44:14Ed, you didn't convince me.
1:44:15I'm not trying to convince you, Myke. I'm just stating my point.
1:44:18[Laughter]
1:44:20All right, so what are you gonna do with your old watch then? You know, you have two watches now?
1:44:25You have two watches on you.
1:44:26Okay, so I was wondering about this, right? It did occur to me like, oh, what am I gonna do with two watches?
1:44:31I have no idea what to do with it. But I realized in a stroke of genius
1:44:35But I do know what to do with two watches
1:44:39Can you guess what I'm gonna do with two watches Myke?
1:44:42Are you gonna charge one overnight and then put the other one on when you go to sleep?
1:44:45Bingo!
1:44:48Day watch, night watch. And do you want to know why this is absolutely genius?
1:44:53Can I tell you? Can I tell you? The thing that really sold this to me?
1:44:56Okay.
1:44:56Was okay. So for listeners, just so you don't think I'm totally crazy in case you're unaware,
1:45:01I am one of those people who sleeps with the Apple Watch because I
1:45:05discovered when I tried sleeping without a watch that
1:45:09Nighttime Gray
1:45:12half wakes up and checks the time on his watch without daytime Grey ever knowing that this is an activity that occurs.
1:45:19So when I try to sleep without wearing a watch like I did the first few times with the Apple watch,
1:45:24I discovered that I wake up in the middle of the night wondering what time it is. Like so obviously
1:45:28sleepy me is actually checking the time because if I wear the watch this doesn't happen.
1:45:32So I have to wear a watch at night.
1:45:34Oh, wait, let me let me go over that once more because I didn't fully understand it, but I think I caught it.
1:45:40Mm-hmm. You were, when you weren't wearing a watch,
1:45:43waking up and wanting to check the time.
1:45:46But then when you started wearing it again, you never had this feeling. Yeah, so when I bought the Apple watch-
1:45:52Interesting. I put it on
1:45:54the nightstand as you did to charge it overnight, and I would wake up several times in the night and
1:46:02Yeah, it took me a little while to figure out that if I wore the watch
1:46:07overnight this didn't happen.
1:46:09But you were still waking up. It's not like the watch was keeping you asleep.
1:46:12It's just like when you when you live with any other person you you see this interesting phenomenon that a person can be
1:46:18awake without really being fully booted up. Like this is a thing that I find very interesting.
1:46:26I sort of you know joke with my wife about having some interaction with the other wife, right?
1:46:32Which is her not fully awake
1:46:35But like awake enough to kind of interact or like make a little request or something, but she's not
1:46:40conscious really. Yeah, I find that person to be a lot less polite.
1:46:44There's a there's a bunch of funny things with this but so- airs and graces go out of the window.
1:46:48Yeah, because you're dealing with like the cerebral cortex isn't there, you're dealing with lower parts of the brain.
1:46:55And so I assume that this is what's happening with me while I'm sleeping that I'm I'm not
1:47:01fully booting up into consciousness, but some part of me is awake enough and wants to be aware of what the time is.
1:47:08And this also makes sense with the behavior that
1:47:11I've had for as long as I can remember is if I really
1:47:17focus on the time that I need to wake up in the morning, I can
1:47:21pretty often just wake up without the alarm clock. Like I can wake up before the alarm goes off.
1:47:27And I always used to wonder like that doesn't make any sense
1:47:30Like how can I keep track of time accurately for eight hours while I'm asleep?
1:47:34It's like the answer is that I'm not I think there's just what happens is some part of me is looking at the clock and
1:47:40It's like oh right. This is when we wanted to get up and now let's start the Buddha process into consciousness
1:47:44So that's just that's just my guess about what's occurring
1:47:48This is explaining the behavior because otherwise I wouldn't really have a reason to wear the watch at night
1:47:52Like I don't you know
1:47:53I'm not I'm not doing like health tracking at night or anything
1:47:56Which I do think is something that Apple should build into the watch. Do you not do the story?
1:47:59Why would you not do that if you're already wearing it?
1:48:03Because I I use what's it called?
1:48:06I use sleep cycle on the phone as the as my sleep tracking thing
1:48:11Because that is tied into an alarm that tries to predict the best time to wake you if you're not waking up automatically
1:48:16But it doesn't do anything through the watch. It's it's on the phone only
1:48:19And it works really well, but I think Apple should build in sleep tracking into the watch
1:48:24But that means they need to expand the battery life significantly, which I don't think they're gonna do
1:48:27But I really think that they should do it. Anyway,
1:48:29So the one thing that did occurred to me, which is a little bit of a problem, is that the Apple watch is really
1:48:36Bright at night. Like again when you're dealing with any source of light in a completely dark room, it's suddenly very bright. Now
1:48:44I have a special
1:48:45nighttime face that I use
1:48:48Have you ever seen my nighttime face, Myke? I don't know if I have. Not at nighttime, but you have shown me in the daytime.
1:48:53Okay, I'll send you a copy of what it looks like right now.
1:48:56But so I have this nighttime face that I use, but even then it can still be quite bright.
1:48:59But so then I realized, okay, brilliant! If I have two Apple watches, this is genius. I'm gonna solve two problems at once.
1:49:05One of which is that when you do decide to sleep with the Apple watch, you need to be aware of
1:49:12charging it more frequently during the day.
1:49:15So essentially like if I take a shower or if there's some kind of little break
1:49:18I'll throw the the watch on the charger for a little bit and that's annoying
1:49:21I don't really like to have to think about that
1:49:22You know, I want to eliminate the number of things that I ever have to think about
1:49:25So if I have two watches it's like, oh great. I can just swap this where at nighttime
1:49:30I will pick up the watch that has been charging all day and in the morning
1:49:34I pick up the watch that has been charging all night and then plus extra bonus
1:49:38It means on the new watch
1:49:40I can just set the brightness to
1:49:42maximum and never think about it. And on the nighttime watch I can crank down the brightness two
1:49:47notches and never think about it because I'm not going to be wearing that watch during the day, so it'll be even dimmer at night.
1:49:52So,
1:49:54boom.
1:49:55Perfect solution. Two watches. Day watch,
1:49:58night watch.
1:50:01[silence]
1:50:07[music]
1:50:13I just, I don't understand you.
1:50:14Do you seriously not understand this?
1:50:16No, what I don't understand is the iPhone and Apple Watch argument.
1:50:21Like, why one is not new and the other is new.
1:50:26That I don't get. I really don't get that.
1:50:28Why don't you get that? I don't understand.
1:50:30because you can't even articulate your thoughts no because like your your
1:50:38feeling about it right this is out of the show now because I can't be bothered
1:50:41to have this argument in the show like you're saying it's the most skippable
1:50:47iPhone right and like even saying that like it's just like a categorical thing
1:50:52mm-hmm like not just a full gray right it's the most skippable but the Apple
1:50:59watch has the all of the enhancements of the Apple watch are exactly the same as the enhancements
1:51:04to the iPhone.
1:51:05Right.
1:51:06They didn't change the way it looked.
1:51:07Right.
1:51:08They made it thicker, they put more battery life in it.
1:51:09Right.
1:51:10They gave it a GPS, which I guess you could say is kind of like the camera.
1:51:12Yeah, yeah, you could say that easily.
1:51:15Right.
1:51:16But like every advancement is just the same as what the iPhone has.
1:51:22But yeah, for some reason the iPhone is skippable, but the Apple watch is not.
1:51:26Well.
1:51:27I feel like at this point you're so consumed with your two watch idea
1:51:31[laughter]
1:51:35that it's made it a must-buy.
1:51:37[laughter]
1:51:39I think that's it. I think I've cracked it. You had this idea, the two watches.
1:51:43[I hate to ruin this scheming of yours here, but I only thought of this idea after I had already pre-ordered the watch]
1:51:50I just don't get it. I think you've just got
1:51:55SE brain.
1:51:56Well...
1:51:57That's your problem.
1:51:58But there's also a question of are you asking if...
1:52:01You didn't ask if I would give like a subtitle to the Apple Watch.
1:52:09And I think you could make easily the same argument that for consumers,
1:52:14the second generation Apple Watch, presuming that you already own an Apple Watch,
1:52:20is also the most skippable Apple Watch ever.
1:52:23I think you could totally make that argument.
1:52:26But like, that's why I think the context of the phone argument is a little bit different because there's a bit of a presumption like everybody already has a phone.
1:52:34And it's only a question of if they're going to get a new phone.
1:52:37Right?
1:52:38The Apple Watch is a different sort of market.
1:52:41And I think for most people, if you already own an Apple Watch, there is almost certainly not a compelling reason to buy another Apple Watch.
1:52:51Alright, like I got my mom an Apple Watch as a present a while back for Mother's Day.
1:52:57And so, before this, before the presentation, I just kind of assumed, like,
1:53:03"Oh, I'm gonna buy my mom another Apple Watch as a present."
1:53:05After the presentation, I thought,
1:53:07"But there's nothing in there that my mom needs, that really matters for her."
1:53:12So, like, I am skipping the Apple Watch for my mom because it'll make no difference to her
1:53:18if she has the Apple Watch 2 or the Apple Watch 1.
1:53:21Makes no difference.
1:53:22So I think you can easily say Apple Watch 2, also most skippable Apple Watch ever.
1:53:27But I personally want two of the features that are on the Apple Watch.
1:53:35Actually, three of the features.
1:53:36Battery life, brighter screen, GPS.
1:53:39And after having purchased it, realized that my two-watch idea is absolute genius.
1:53:45So for me, it's just a total win.
1:53:47Total win in every way.
1:53:49I really hope tomorrow that I put that phone in your hand and you go, "Oh, s**t."
1:53:56That's what I hope.
1:53:57I hope so too, because I would rather have a thing that I think is better, right?
1:54:02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:54:03There's no downside in that to me.
1:54:06You don't want to be proven, actually you want to be proven wrong, right?
1:54:09Like ideally.
1:54:10Yeah, exactly.
1:54:11It would be great.
1:54:12What you really don't want is for me to put that phone in your hand tomorrow and you're
1:54:16go, "Yeah, Gray was right."
1:54:18That's exactly it. I do not want to be right when I see it tomorrow.
1:54:23I want nothing more than on the next episode of Cortex to be telling you about how much I love the iPhone 7 Plus.
1:54:32That is, optimal outcome is when we record the next show, we have a whole big section about how two weeks ago,
1:54:39Gray didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
1:54:41Yeah?
1:54:43Yeah, I hope so.