0:00:00So listener Ian has found the perfect new game for you.
0:00:02Oh yes, what is it?
0:00:04So you know in the past you've spoken about the fact that you like games that feel like work.
0:00:09You know, like Truck Simulator and Factorio, they're like work games?
0:00:13Yeah, they're work simulator games in my mind.
0:00:15Well, we found the ultimate CGP Grey work simulator. It's called YouTuber's Life.
0:00:20YouTuber's Life is the ultimate life simulation tycoon video game in which you become the world's
0:00:26greatest video blogger in history. Edit videos, expand the amount of fans, and turn yourself
0:00:30into a wealthy fella.
0:00:32Uhh, that sounds horrible to play.
0:00:36Work imitates life imitates work imitates life.
0:00:39That's a little too close to home.
0:00:41The screenshots are amazing because they show a bedroom with an unmade bed and somebody
0:00:47working on a computer.
0:00:48remarkably by total coincidence I watched PewDiePie do a playthrough of YouTube Simulator just yesterday.
0:00:57Oh really?
0:00:59It showed up in that "Here's what YouTube thinks you should watch" section.
0:01:03They were really right though, right?
0:01:05Sometimes that YouTube thing freaks me out because they're like "Oh yeah, no, I would like to see that video. Thank you so much, YouTube."
0:01:11All right. Well this this one struck me as particularly funny because it's it's I am NOT subscribed to PewDiePie
0:01:18I have probably watched fewer than
0:01:20five maybe ten of his videos ever and
0:01:24But but YouTube just knows right there little algorithms their data algorithms simply know hey
0:01:30We're going to suggest you a PewDiePie video that you cannot possibly
0:01:34Resist on clicking and they were correct and I clicked it and I watched it and they were right. It was very entertaining video
0:01:39What do you think of YouTuber's life?
0:01:43I will never play a game like that. It looks
0:01:47terrible, it looks like the kind of work simulator that I hate, which is
0:01:51not really a work simulator, it's just the game randomly
0:01:55rewarding you at times with stuff. I don't know.
0:01:59I have no interest in never playing that game, but I can recommend PewDiePie's video
0:02:03where he plays that game. He's very good, he's very funny,
0:02:07and he turns it into a bizarre meta commentary
0:02:11on his own life as a YouTuber.
0:02:14So of course he ends up making a little character
0:02:17that looks just like him,
0:02:18and he just makes all of these comments
0:02:21about feeding the machine and gotta keep it going.
0:02:23There's a reason that guy's the number one YouTuber.
0:02:25I wouldn't watch all his videos, they're not all for me,
0:02:27but anybody who thinks he's just an idiot
0:02:31playing video games in his room,
0:02:32like you don't understand what this man is doing.
0:02:34You don't understand what he's doing.
0:02:35When we talk about that talent thing,
0:02:38and when we were talking about, a long time ago,
0:02:40about having that spark, and we used MKBHD
0:02:43as an example of that from his first video.
0:02:46- Right, right, little tiny 12-year-old MKBHD.
0:02:49- Yeah, PewDiePie doesn't really have a spark,
0:02:51he has a fire.
0:02:52- Yeah. - Like that man,
0:02:53there is no doubt, absolutely no doubt.
0:02:56Whether you don't like his videos or not,
0:02:58you cannot deny that they are well-made.
0:03:00- Yeah, that they are well-made,
0:03:01and that he is just engaging.
0:03:04He's engaging in this way that is difficult to describe.
0:03:07- Yep.
0:03:08(laughing)
0:03:09- But yeah, so really, YouTube algorithms,
0:03:11you know what I wanted even when I didn't know
0:03:14what I wanted, and what I wanted was watching
0:03:16the number one YouTuber play a YouTube simulation game.
0:03:20- This is an episode out of time.
0:03:22- Indeed it is, Myke, because from my perspective,
0:03:27this is insanity, because I just spoke to you yesterday.
0:03:31We just did an episode yesterday.
0:03:33We did our Cortex-iversary episode yesterday for people who are interested in the cortex-anuity of the show.
0:03:45I'm so proud of you right now. You're really getting into this.
0:03:49[Laughter]
0:03:51And this episode you are probably listening to sometime in July, maybe August?
0:03:58I don't even know when this is gonna happen.
0:04:00So people will be listening to this at some point in the late summer, months after we are recording it.
0:04:08Yep.
0:04:08So this is what will be past me talking to you after what is intended to be a very long, very busy, very unusual summer for me.
0:04:23Which is part of the reason why we are recording this well ahead of time.
0:04:26But it makes the verb usage here seem very strange.
0:04:31Like, in the future, I will have had done things that we will certainly have had already talked about on shows we will record.
0:04:43But from the perspective of people listening, we've already recorded and they have already listened to.
0:04:48Because it's very confusing, because in theory, now, looking to the future, so people can judge our predictions,
0:04:56we have participated in RelayCon together.
0:05:01Right, we will have been to RelayCon.
0:05:03You have been to VidCon.
0:05:05I will have been to VidCon.
0:05:07We will have recorded our first in-person episode of Cortex.
0:05:11That's right as well.
0:05:13And now we are approaching the second annual Cortexmas.
0:05:19It's all very confusing.
0:05:21It is all very confusing. And the very fact that I am going to RelayCon, and the very fact that I am going to VidCon
0:05:28are things that I have stated publicly nowhere at this stage.
0:05:32Which is what makes it all the more exciting to mention.
0:05:35It's like a fun little secret at this moment.
0:05:39I may not even mention anything about being at VidCon until after I have left.
0:05:44I don't know. We'll have to see. You, listener, will already know if I did or didn't.
0:05:48But that might be a surprise.
0:05:52So yeah, it's just a strange thing, but we are trying to plan in advance for what is going to be a busy summer.
0:06:01So the reason we are recording this is because there's going to be just a ton of stuff going on.
0:06:07And I know that later in the summer, in addition to all of this crazy business stuff,
0:06:12I also have a ton of family stuff that I'm doing later in the summer.
0:06:15So this very morning, for this episode, I was actually tallying up
0:06:20what is the theoretical number of flights that I am taking this summer.
0:06:24And I haven't bought them yet, there's a few events and a few things that are still a bit uncertain.
0:06:28But I will be taking no fewer than 8 and no more than 14 flights this summer.
0:06:33Wow, that's a lot. Oh my word.
0:06:36I know, it is quite a lot. But that is why a little while ago I said, "Myke, we need to talk about the summer Cortex schedule."
0:06:47And that is why this episode is happening right now.
0:06:50Also, because me and you have been through something like this already.
0:06:55So last year, you were away for a lot of the summer, and we didn't prepare for it, and it was a nightmare.
0:07:04Yeah, last summer was a bit of a disaster in very many ways for me.
0:07:09Probably one of the biggest ways was that somehow, I don't really know how,
0:07:14but you convinced me not only were we going to launch Cortex last summer,
0:07:20but we were also going to be doing weekly episodes, which was insanity.
0:07:24I don't know how you convinced me of this. I don't know why past me would have agreed to such a thing.
0:07:30But that was way, way too many episodes to be doing at once.
0:07:36But we tried, and then we had to try and squeeze it into a schedule, and you were on standby
0:07:42flights, arriving at weird days.
0:07:44It was a nightmare.
0:07:46So we also, we have learned together, and are working together over the last year or
0:07:51so, and we are now recording an episode out of time.
0:07:55Yes.
0:07:56And that is what this episode is.
0:07:57But there is an interesting lesson in there.
0:07:59I think about the whole idea of this thing existing is that we are collaborating better
0:08:07now than we have before because we now understand the habits and patterns of each other and
0:08:14we are working to respect those so I know that you'll be traveling and you know that
0:08:22I want an episode.
0:08:23Right what Myke is trying to say here listeners is we respect Myke knows that I want a
0:08:29bunch of time off this summer. And I know that Myke watches a bunch of episodes this summer.
0:08:34We have these mutually incompatible desires and so we have compromised on
0:08:40one Cortexmas, so there was going to be one fewer episode of Cortex this summer,
0:08:45and also doing this episode in advance. So this is the thing, this is the
0:08:51compromise that we have come to. This is another one of those CEO to CEO
0:08:55discussions that we had that we've mentioned in the past which again I will
0:08:59underscore the importance of anybody who is self-employed working with other
0:09:03self-employed people that it is very very useful to be able to have these
0:09:07conversations. So useful so useful. And we were able to come to an agreement
0:09:13because I wanted more episodes than we're doing and you wanted more time
0:09:16off than you have so we came to a compromise. Uh-huh yes we did come to a
0:09:22compromise because as we may discuss later in the episode in theory I would
0:09:27just like the whole summer off. I would like the whole summer off too but then I
0:09:32can't eat right that's not how it works. Right but that's what I mean right there
0:09:38are all of these various constraints and things in life. I do also just want to
0:09:42again reiterate your point to anybody listening who is self-employed and works
0:09:46other people. I really think if you can try to introduce the explicit language,
0:09:54like we will say like we are talking CEO to CEO now, like do that as a mode
0:10:02shift when you're having business conversations with someone. It is hard to
0:10:07express how much easier and clearer that makes things. It really really does. I
0:10:13I highly highly recommend anybody working with other people like try to do that try to institute that as a company culture
0:10:21In both of your companies, it's extraordinarily beneficial and just makes things much much easier
0:10:25But yeah, so in addition to this being a bit of a negotiation between the two of us
0:10:30this is also
0:10:32one of these cases for me where it's important to
0:10:36know yourself and
0:10:41I found myself as this summer was approaching
0:10:43really constantly thinking back towards last summer and
0:10:49just realizing how last summer was a bit of a disaster across all fronts.
0:10:55Like this summer, I had a bunch of family responsibilities, and I also had a bunch of work responsibilities. So there was Cortex.
0:11:01There's also the Hello Internet podcast. There's also the YouTube videos that I did. There's some other business stuff.
0:11:05And also a bunch of family things and
0:11:10Last summer I just did a frankly terrible job of trying to manage all of those things
0:11:17And as a result, I had a kind of grumpy summer. Like I felt that I was not doing
0:11:21necessarily really great with a lot of the business side of things and then I also felt that I wasn't doing really great with a
0:11:28lot of the family responsibilities. Like I was just torn between these two different worlds and
0:11:34not being able to give either
0:11:37the time and the mental energy that they required.
0:11:42And so I think this is such an important skill in life is to be able to look on a thing,
0:11:50objectively evaluate yourself on it to recognize,
0:11:54"Oh, I didn't do very well last summer with these kinds of things," and then think forward to the future about
0:11:59what are the structural changes that can be done to improve this situation.
0:12:04And so,
0:12:07Reducing the number of Cortex episodes by one and also doing one in advance like we're doing now like that is one thing
0:12:13That is definitely happening, and I'm doing a similar thing with hello internet. I think
0:12:18One maybe two I still have to finalize it
0:12:21But there's going to be a few fewer episodes than would otherwise be
0:12:25Normal over the course of the year during the summer, and I'm also making a conscious decision like I do most summers to
0:12:32intentionally do one fewer video than in theory would come out over the same three month span if I was
0:12:40working at another point in the year.
0:12:42And I feel like this is one of those times where, well,
0:12:45I have a bunch of things to do. This summer in particular is going to be filled with a huge amount of
0:12:52social time and family time. Like I always find that very
0:12:58energy intensive and so I am not like last year going to think oh I can just truck through this like normal
0:13:05I'm just I'm just gonna keep doing all the amount of work that I normally do and I'm also going to have all of these
0:13:10Other responsibilities and everything is going to be fine. It's like no no
0:13:13I'm going to learn from last year's experience and intentionally turn down the work dial so that hopefully
0:13:20The whole of the summer goes more smoothly than it did last time
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0:15:12In the balance of all of that is time off, right?
0:15:16Understanding that you should be putting your efforts
0:15:19into the right places, one of those places
0:15:22should be time off.
0:15:23Because if you work in a company, you'll get time off.
0:15:27And you'll get time off because there's a very good reason,
0:15:30'cause everybody needs breaks, right?
0:15:32And in more traditional companies, everybody takes it
0:15:36and it's all done.
0:15:37And like in the company that I worked at, you had to, right?
0:15:40It wasn't even a joke, like this was just a thing
0:15:43you had to do and one of those breaks had to be two weeks.
0:15:47Right, they were like all things that were like,
0:15:49you had to do them.
0:15:50And I know in a lot more kind of new companies these days,
0:15:53there are like these trends which,
0:15:56the face of it seemed quite good,
0:15:57but actually workouts will not be too great,
0:15:59like unlimited vacation time.
0:16:01Are you familiar with this?
0:16:02- Oh man, I love unlimited vacation time at companies
0:16:08because this to me is the embodiment of corporate evil.
0:16:12- Yep.
0:16:13(laughs)
0:16:14- So for listeners who may be unaware,
0:16:17this is a trend I feel like over the past few years
0:16:21of companies saying there is an unlimited amount
0:16:23of vacation time for you to take.
0:16:25You take as much as you feel that you need
0:16:29because we, the company, we love you
0:16:32and we want you to be happy.
0:16:34And it sounds great and I think especially
0:16:37for people walking out of university and into their first job.
0:16:42Like, oh, this sounds like an amazing bonus.
0:16:44But the end result is that without knowing
0:16:47how much vacation time is okay to take,
0:16:51that people who work at companies
0:16:52that give unlimited vacation time
0:16:54essentially take no vacation time.
0:16:56That they never take time off.
0:16:58Because everybody has this paranoid feeling
0:17:00about how much time is appropriate to take off.
0:17:03When is it okay?
0:17:04I don't understand what the boundaries are.
0:17:06And so, yeah, it's just, it's total, total corporate evil to do that kind of thing.
0:17:11But it is very important to make sure that you do it.
0:17:14And that like unlimited vacation time in a strange way is exactly the way that me
0:17:20and you live our lives in and with so many self employ people, right?
0:17:25It's like, I can take as much time off as I want because I make, I call the shots,
0:17:29but what happens is I take none.
0:17:31Right?
0:17:31Yeah.
0:17:32So I have become better and better maybe in the last year
0:17:37about taking some breaks, but one of the things that I do,
0:17:41which is good and bad is a lot of those breaks
0:17:43have some kind of work component in them,
0:17:45but that helps me justify a lot of it to myself.
0:17:50And I'm definitely not working as much as usual
0:17:52in those scenarios, but there is more relaxation time
0:17:57occurring than usual.
0:18:00I was laughing before because the comparison between unlimited vacation time companies and self-employment is just
0:18:07perfectly spot-on and
0:18:09again in the thinking about my upcoming summer, which will have passed by the time people are listening to this, and
0:18:17thinking about
0:18:19my last summer that's gone on and thinking about just how I spend my working time,
0:18:24I am so very much aware that in the past two years
0:18:29this is also an area that I have been just very bad at, is taking time off.
0:18:35And I recognize that as one of these things that I want to try to improve and I want to try to get better at,
0:18:41but it is in no small part because there is a bit of a lull, this feeling of like, "Oh, in theory
0:18:46I could take any day off."
0:18:48But you never want to take any particular day off because there's always stuff to do when you're self-employed.
0:18:53This is the downside that we talk about of being self-employed, that it's very hard
0:18:57for the job to leave your mind or for you to leave the job. It's always there, there's always stuff that you can do.
0:19:04And I look back quite fondly on my time as a teacher when you had those breaks and
0:19:13there was stuff to do during the breaks, like I was always working on side projects or whatever, but there was a
0:19:20way that you could genuinely completely leave the job behind for regular stretches of time.
0:19:27And that was without doubt hugely mentally beneficial to do such a thing.
0:19:32And I particularly love the UK schedule for teachers, which is very different from in America.
0:19:37In America you usually have like one really big long summer and a few shorter breaks throughout the year.
0:19:42But in the UK, it's like six weeks of teaching and then one week off, six weeks of teaching, two weeks off, six weeks of teaching, one week off.
0:19:51It's an amazing amazing schedule that I think I need to move closer to that in the future
0:19:59because my current schedule of I work almost every day some amount after probably pretty
0:20:07close to two years of doing that it's like no this needs this needs to change this is
0:20:11a thing that I need to improve upon and it is one of the areas in which I have not been
0:20:16so great.
0:20:17Time off isn't just vacations though.
0:20:19No, it's not just vacations. I'm thinking of vacations because that is the area in which I have been the worst at.
0:20:25And I'm also thinking about that because I keep comparing that, oh, this summer would be a lot easier if I could just
0:20:32have it be like my summers were when I was a teacher.
0:20:35That's why I'm thinking about vacations.
0:20:37But I have been much better this past year in particular of making a really conscious effort that
0:20:44no work happens on Saturdays.
0:20:48So I have Saturdays blocked off in my calendar as just no work days.
0:20:53Nothing's going to happen here.
0:20:54You know, I'm spending time on my own or I'm spending time with my wife,
0:20:57but I'm going to have one really dedicated day out of the week that I know I'm not going to work on that day.
0:21:05And simply doing that has been much more helpful, like to really treat that day respectfully.
0:21:13Like to not just blow it off and it's very easy to do some low-level work.
0:21:16But it's like no no no I'm very serious about this. Again, it's very funny in this way like when you are self-employed
0:21:22you have to be quite disciplined with this kind of stuff. Like you have to take time off really seriously, otherwise you won't do it.
0:21:29And that is a thing that has worked for me, but like
0:21:33what is it that you do in in your schedule with regards to time off because
0:21:40you have all of these shows that you record and it seems like
0:21:44You record shows constantly from my perspective. I mean do you have a
0:21:49Day in your schedule that is perfectly clear. Do you do something similar or how does it work for you? No?
0:21:57Well yes, and no okay, I have no day that is like
0:22:04Absolutely no work. Mm-hmm like
0:22:08categorically none
0:22:10Weekends are low to none.
0:22:14And that is a regular thing for me.
0:22:17There might be some low level work that I do on a Sunday,
0:22:20there might be some like just bits and bobs that pop up
0:22:23that I take care of, but it's not one or the other
0:22:27for me on weekends, but it tends to be that they are like
0:22:30significantly lower work, so the point where it feels
0:22:33like I'm not working, right?
0:22:35But I know there's always stuff going on
0:22:37because our companies are very different.
0:22:39mine runs with people.
0:22:41- Right.
0:22:42- And I like to be available for people if they need me.
0:22:46So it is a different scenario,
0:22:48it's set up slightly differently.
0:22:49But I'm totally happy with that.
0:22:51I wouldn't wanna work any other way.
0:22:53There doesn't have to be any people involved,
0:22:55but I wanted there to be.
0:22:59There would have been a way to run Relay FM
0:23:02very differently than the way that we run it.
0:23:05We didn't have to create a Slack group
0:23:07that had every host in it.
0:23:10We just didn't have to do any of that, you know?
0:23:12'Cause that makes everybody much more available
0:23:14to each other, so it has more requirements to it.
0:23:16But that's the way that I like to run my business.
0:23:18But what I do is, in my theme of the year of less,
0:23:23I have two days every two weeks,
0:23:27I mentioned this many times, where there is way less work,
0:23:30and also one week where there is just less work anyway.
0:23:34Like less shows recording.
0:23:36I specifically stack one week heavier than the other.
0:23:40And I'm running some side projects
0:23:43through some of that stuff too,
0:23:44but it doesn't feel so much like work,
0:23:47like you, the way that you do that.
0:23:49And one thing that I'm very mindful of
0:23:51is taking mini breaks throughout the day.
0:23:54That is something that I put a lot of focus
0:23:56on making sure that I do.
0:23:58And working with a predominantly US audience
0:24:02means that's very possible,
0:24:03because there are a lot of people
0:24:05that are asleep for the majority of my morning and afternoon.
0:24:09So I'm able to do work that is isolated during that time, where I'm able to take care of
0:24:15things that people won't bug me for.
0:24:18I'm able to take care of things where I can send stuff to people and they won't get back
0:24:22to me immediately.
0:24:24And then I'm also able to relax a little bit before working again in the evening.
0:24:29Yeah, I think that's good and sort of along the same lines where you're talking about mini-breaks.
0:24:38One of the behaviors I have been trying to be much more conscious about is deciding when work isn't happening at particular times.
0:24:51And as I've mentioned before for me, the afternoons are always my least productive time.
0:24:56And while I have been bad about taking a dedicated time off like a vacation,
0:25:01one other thing that I have gotten much, much better at is really accepting the afternoons as my unproductive time,
0:25:10and deciding to not feel the guilt of "there are things that you could be working on right now."
0:25:16And to say instead, "No, I am accepting that this is low productivity time for me,
0:25:22and if in the afternoon I want to sit down
0:25:26and I want to watch a couple episodes of TV
0:25:30or I just want to read a book or something,
0:25:32that is fine because this is the time of day
0:25:35when it makes most sense to do that,
0:25:37when you'd be the least effective working
0:25:39on something else anyway,
0:25:41and you might as well take this as your downtime.
0:25:46- So I try and do this and I do this.
0:25:49I still struggle with it though,
0:25:51And funnily enough, the times where I struggle with it
0:25:53the most are also the times when I need it the most.
0:25:56- What do you mean you need it the most?
0:25:59- So when I have a lot on my mind,
0:26:02so when I have a lot going on, and when I'm very busy,
0:26:06it makes me feel overwhelmed.
0:26:08And when I feel overwhelmed,
0:26:10I usually need to take more breaks,
0:26:12because typically, when I have that overwhelmed feeling,
0:26:16it's not as bad as I think it is.
0:26:18And what will usually happen is,
0:26:21Adina will come home, and I will be in a bad mood.
0:26:25Like usually not angry but upset, like I feel upset.
0:26:29- Grumpy Myke.
0:26:30- Grumpy's not even the right word for it.
0:26:32Like it's a weird feeling of like,
0:26:36maybe more vulnerable?
0:26:39It's something that's very difficult for me to explain,
0:26:42but the only way that I describe it is,
0:26:44I will say to her, I feel overwhelmed.
0:26:46and then she'll say to me, tell me all of the things
0:26:49that you have going on, and then I'll list them
0:26:52and realize it's not as many as I think it is.
0:26:54This is a very common thing, maybe happens
0:26:57every few months or so, but it's not something
0:27:00that I can really see until I'm able to express it,
0:27:04but it's funny that the more and more it happens,
0:27:07the more that I'm realizing that it's in those times
0:27:11is typically where I'm not taking breaks.
0:27:15And it's when I'm not taking breaks,
0:27:17I'm working maybe a little bit more than I should,
0:27:19and then I feel like there's always more happening
0:27:21than there is.
0:27:22- Yeah, that, it's funny you mention that,
0:27:28because just, this thing that I do fairly, fairly regularly,
0:27:33I mean, maybe like you, maybe every couple of months,
0:27:37I don't know exactly, but I am also aware
0:27:40of that feeling of overwhelmedness,
0:27:43as I mentioned before sometimes like just this feeling like there is so much to do and
0:27:49So little time to do it I almost feel like that feeling is
0:27:55anti correlated with
0:27:59Actually how many things there are to do?
0:28:01and so
0:28:04Just the other day again. This is now months ago from whenever people are listening
0:28:07It may have happened three times to be known. Yeah, I may have done it several times now
0:28:12But just the other day I posted on Twitter about how I
0:28:16always know like oh things are serious when I feel the need to break out a second to do app and so I
0:28:22am more like if I have this feeling of
0:28:25Overwhelmedness I do the same thing that Adina is walking you through of
0:28:31Let me let me
0:28:34Not look at my normal system. Let me not look at all of my normal things. Let me just list
0:28:41What are all of the things that are on my mind right now?
0:28:44What are all of the things that are top of my mind that's taking up all of this mental attention? And what am I feeling?
0:28:50Overwhelmed about and it's always the same experience of okay once I write this down in a list there may be
0:28:57nine things on that list
0:28:59But what I often find is oh, I'm feeling overwhelmed or or busy because a bunch of these things are
0:29:07new or unusual things
0:29:11It's not that they're actually, I may not actually be tremendously more busy than I currently am, but it's just there's
0:29:18uncertainty here and
0:29:21writing it down on a list like clarifies and refines that uncertainty and helps get rid of that feeling of
0:29:27being too busy and too overwhelmed.
0:29:30Yeah, there is something quite funny in there that you talk to a to-do app and I talk to my girlfriend.
0:29:37I mean, I used to write it down on a piece of paper, but now I use it to do out for the night.
0:29:41We're living in the future, come on.
0:29:43Yeah, we're living in the future.
0:29:44But yeah, so like having just gone through this, like this week I had been feeling very overwhelmed.
0:29:50But when I wrote it all down, what I realized is, okay, I am actually quite busy.
0:29:54Because this week I am working on a video.
0:29:58We're doing these two podcasts, one which is the bank episode in the future.
0:30:02So that is a thing that counts for me as a bit of, oh, this is unusual, this is different.
0:30:07The video that I am working on, again, I can talk about this now even though it hasn't yet happened, is a collaboration video with somebody else, and so that also adds to the differentness of the project.
0:30:21I like that you said somebody else. You were still trying to guard the secret.
0:30:25Yeah, I don't know why I did that.
0:30:26From the people that know.
0:30:28Right, I just...
0:30:29It's a crossover video with Kurt Gissat. I don't know why on earth I said somebody else.
0:30:35Very proud of you right now.
0:30:36No.
0:30:37That was part of my brain, being like,
0:30:39I'm not sure if we're supposed to reveal this yet,
0:30:41but no one will hear this.
0:30:42But so that's the thing, it's different.
0:30:45And then the other thing is I have a bunch of stuff
0:30:47that's just related to finalizing and preparing
0:30:50for all of the summer travels.
0:30:52Now, that is a busier week than normal,
0:30:56but overwhelmingly, the feeling of busyness
0:31:00or the feeling of overwhelmness was just coming from
0:31:03a bunch of these things are different
0:31:04than they normally are.
0:31:06And so when you write them all down on a list,
0:31:08you can see, okay, this is clearer
0:31:11than I thought it was before.
0:31:12And this helps focus the mind on what you're going to do.
0:31:17And what I also really like about this process
0:31:20of writing things down in these moments
0:31:23is forcing the list to be in what order
0:31:28are you going to work on it?
0:31:30And you're like, here's the thing at the top,
0:31:32this is the thing that you're doing right now,
0:31:33the next most important thing is below it,
0:31:35and then just so on.
0:31:36I find that is extremely helpful and I don't know,
0:31:41I almost wanna use a hippie word like centering,
0:31:44I don't know, it's a similar thing
0:31:46if I have a hard time verbalizing the mental feeling of it.
0:31:50- It's like decluttering.
0:31:52- Yeah, yeah, that's actually, that's pretty good.
0:31:55That's a very similar feeling of like a decluttering is.
0:32:00How much stuff is here?
0:32:01Maybe not necessarily a lot,
0:32:03what you really need to do is get rid of a few items and better arrange the items that you have and then you realize
0:32:08Oh, it wasn't actually that cluttered but I did need to do a bit of decluttering. That's that's that's pretty good. That's pretty good
0:32:13So going back to the time off part. Mmm, so the time off that isn't vacations
0:32:19You mentioned TV shows. I assume you do video gaming and stuff like that during those periods as well
0:32:26Yeah video gaming. It's actually quite recently. It's it's been much more TV than video games
0:32:32I always tend to go in cycles with video games of playing a lot and then not playing very much at all
0:32:36Yeah, it depends on what whether there's something out that you want to play right as well
0:32:40Yeah, that's part that's partly it but I think it's there's also just something in my brain which is more or less engaged by that
0:32:46Activity and so I think that the it's like the video game TV cycles are our opposite cycles that go on
0:32:54So so yeah
0:32:55Those are the things that I do if if I'm feeling busy or I sometimes I feel like there's something that's on my mind
0:33:01mind in a way that is difficult to articulate and so that's a time when I'll also really
0:33:07like to just go walking around the city and just kind of explore or go to a different
0:33:12place.
0:33:13Kind of chew over something in my mind.
0:33:15I feel like I often don't even know exactly what it is that my brain is thinking about
0:33:19but going for a long walk can really resolve that kind of stuff.
0:33:24And again an afternoon is a perfect time for that kind of thing.
0:33:26Like what else am I going to do?
0:33:27Am I going to record a podcast with Myke?
0:33:30Not every day.
0:33:31look into that though. No we should not. I mean we've been doing it. Two days in a
0:33:36row is one day more than enough. Yeah. This is supposed to be fortnightly.
0:33:41That's what this is supposed to be. On this show we spend an awful lot of time
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0:35:06But what about you, Myke? Like for your time off, because I always just think about your
0:35:12schedule. Like you have this crazy schedule that I think I could not live with. And it
0:35:17seems like your day is just very fragmented. Yeah. So it's like, what does that look like
0:35:23for you? It has been a real problem for me this week.
0:35:27Mm hmm. Yesterday I had a feeling which I do not have
0:35:31very often, boredom. So yesterday morning I was very bored and when I started thinking
0:35:40about it what I realized is I haven't been outside of the house in five days. Previously
0:35:51to that I was in a relative's house for the day and then before that I was home for four
0:35:58days. So what I realized is really I haven't left the house in two weeks because the times
0:36:04that I left the house I was going to other houses.
0:36:06[Laughter]
0:36:07Matthew: You've been a house cat for two weeks.
0:36:11David: Exactly. And this is where my – there are two factors here that make this difficult,
0:36:16which is schedule and location. Now, I was talking to Adina about this and she was saying,
0:36:23saying, "Just go for a walk," but the walk is not the thing that I need. Being out of
0:36:29the house is not what I need. It's stimulation when I leave the house. Just leaving here
0:36:35and walking around my outer rim planet is no good for me.
0:36:40JE: You just got cattle skulls to kick over.
0:36:43AD: Yeah. Just tumbleweed. I could chase the tumbleweed down the street, but that's not
0:36:46going to do much good. There's not really any benefit to me that I feel for doing that,
0:36:51other than the exercise. I do exercise at home. Don't worry, I'm not turning into a blob here.
0:36:57So this is like an issue that I have had mainly because the last two weeks have been
0:37:03uncharacteristically busy because of upcoming travel. So it's one of the reasons why the
0:37:10Year of Less quiet week, which I'm currently in, has actually been busier than my previous busy week
0:37:17Because there is travel coming up and I presume that this means
0:37:21You are like you're doing with me right now
0:37:24recording other shows in advance or getting them getting ready in some way for a
0:37:29Content drought while you are at WWDC and not going to be recording a ton of stuff exactly
0:37:36And also other people like other co-hosts and stuff are moving around a lot
0:37:42So there's like just a lot of like things moving around on my schedule
0:37:46we've had new things that we're trying to get ready to do and all that sort of stuff so there's like
0:37:50Additional pressures that maybe wouldn't be here usually
0:37:54And the other part that you mentioned my schedule
0:37:57Combined with the fact that I am kind of on the outer rim my schedule will throw things in the middle of the day
0:38:04Yeah, yeah, so we record at two o'clock
0:38:07I record some other shows at three o'clock. So once I'm done with my morning work, I
0:38:15I can't really go anywhere because I wouldn't make it back in time because I'm like an hour away from anything I want to do.
0:38:23Right.
0:38:25So this is where the location is a problem,
0:38:27which is why, you know, when we move, which is getting closer and closer,
0:38:31one of the key things that we're looking for is to be in civilization of some kind.
0:38:37So I won't have to have this feeling because I can just go take a walk
0:38:42and maybe go get a coffee in a different location
0:38:44or take a nice walk around a nice place,
0:38:47do a thing, go to the store.
0:38:49I can do all of these things
0:38:51and they'll be more pleasant for me.
0:38:53But the good thing is I don't feel like this very frequently
0:38:56because I do make an effort in usual times
0:39:00to plan things outside of the home,
0:39:02going to visit people,
0:39:03having lunches with people and stuff like that.
0:39:05But it was very interesting to me
0:39:07to confirm what I expected would be the case,
0:39:10which is if I stay in the house too long,
0:39:13I would get the boredom feeling.
0:39:15But it is funny that it's maybe the first time
0:39:19I have felt this in the two years
0:39:21that I've been self-employed.
0:39:22- Yeah, it's a funny thing,
0:39:26'cause boredom is a feeling for children
0:39:30and for office monkeys.
0:39:31That's where that feeling seems like
0:39:33it would be the most present in the population.
0:39:35And to be self-employed, there's always something to do.
0:39:40I think boredom, I caught myself feeling slightly bored a few weeks ago and I just noticed it
0:39:51as a bizarre feeling like, "Oh, I haven't felt this way in forever.
0:39:55I haven't felt this way in a really long time."
0:39:57Yeah, that's how I felt.
0:39:58I was like, I put my iPad down and I went, "Phew!"
0:40:01I was like, "Oh, no!"
0:40:04Like patting your legs with your hands and just looking around.
0:40:08There's nothing to do.
0:40:09There's nothing on my to-do list.
0:40:10I have something later on, but nothing to do right now.
0:40:13I've already watched all my YouTube videos.
0:40:15I've already completed Uncharted.
0:40:17There's nothing to do.
0:40:18- Yeah. (laughs)
0:40:21This, like my summer planning,
0:40:23like some of the other stuff we're talking about now,
0:40:25I feel like this is all falling into the category
0:40:27of this meta skill of observing yourself.
0:40:30- Yeah.
0:40:31- And it is a really key skill to, in those moments,
0:40:36take note of your own mental state and what's occurring.
0:40:41And that, I don't know,
0:40:43I think that sounds kind of obvious,
0:40:46but I really think this is a learned skill
0:40:48to cognitively learn to watch yourself
0:40:52and then walk yourself through
0:40:55precisely what you're talking about here.
0:40:56Thinking like, why do I feel bored?
0:40:58And tracking it back.
0:41:00As opposed to just accepting that boredom is a feeling
0:41:03that you occasionally experience and projecting outward.
0:41:06like, oh, my media is not entertaining enough for me right now.
0:41:10That's why I'm being bored. It's like, no, no, no, no. That's,
0:41:13that's not what it is. There's some,
0:41:15there's something that you are doing that is causing this in yourself.
0:41:19And so then you recognize like, oh,
0:41:21I have been a house cat for 14 days in a row. That's why I'm feeling bored.
0:41:25There's, there has been no external stimulation.
0:41:28Everything is just the same or everything is just media consumption.
0:41:31But I think it's really key to be able to recognize that in yourself and then be
0:41:36to try to course correct and act on that. I was also quite pleased because it proved a hypothesis
0:41:43that I had about myself. You know, and I was able, I was happy in the sense that I was able
0:41:49to understand that this could happen and then when it did happen I recognized it. Right. And it also
0:41:56just makes me very wary of allowing it to happen. Which is why, you know, as we get closer and
0:42:03and closer to the end of the year.
0:42:06I mean, we're still halfway through the year,
0:42:07but we're about to be on the other end of the middle,
0:42:12so we're moving towards the end of the year.
0:42:15I'm beginning already to think about
0:42:17what does 2017 look like commitments-wise.
0:42:21- See, this is perfect,
0:42:25because this is exactly what I've been thinking about
0:42:27so intensely in the past several weeks as well,
0:42:30is almost mentally like,
0:42:32Well, the rest of the year is kind of set.
0:42:35- Yeah, I'm not gonna make any changes now.
0:42:37- Yeah.
0:42:38- I might do new stuff, but I'm not gonna get rid
0:42:40of anything, 'cause it's all planned, it's all there,
0:42:42it all exists, we all accept it.
0:42:45- Yeah, there's a schedule in place.
0:42:47- Yep.
0:42:47- But already thinking forward towards next year,
0:42:50and what does next year look like,
0:42:52and doing the same thing on a bigger scale
0:42:54of what has this year looked like,
0:42:55what does last year look like, what do you,
0:42:58again, along with the metacognition,
0:43:01this feeling of the project of a human life
0:43:05is to design a life that it wants to live.
0:43:08Like this is the ultimate thing that you want to try to do
0:43:11is make your life more of a life that you want to live.
0:43:16And so doing the same thing of thinking forward to 2017
0:43:20and thinking, okay, how can 2017 be better than 2016?
0:43:28What structural changes are there that can be made in the future that will place me in a situation where I like my life even better than I already like it?
0:43:39This is one of these things that you kind of naturally end up thinking about.
0:43:42But it's just funny that you say that you, again at this point, which is essentially not yet, but barely halfway through the year, you already are quite naturally thinking forward toward next year.
0:43:55Like that's just something that's coming across your mental horizon.
0:43:57I think it's, you know, a lot of it is because by this point in the year,
0:44:01I at least have accumulated some new things and I want to work on some new stuff. So I'm like,
0:44:08okay, you're at the halfway point now and how are you feeling? Okay, you're starting to feel like
0:44:13maybe you've got a lot going on, but oh wait, you're not stopping. So it's just a case of over
0:44:19the hump, time to consider what next year looks like. And it's just like, you know how we were
0:44:25were talking in January about New Year being time to reflect. I feel like in the same vein,
0:44:33half year is just in the time to start making yourself aware of next year. It's just like
0:44:39a little mental clock thing that happens where I'm like, "Okay, I've been doing this, what
0:44:45I set out in January for six months now. Now it's just time to start preparing myself for
0:44:52what the next part looks like. I should by this point in the year have worked out if
0:44:56the 2016 plan was an effective one, and now how do I tweak it to create the 2017 plan?
0:45:03Right, and the rest of 2016 is in some sense execution on what has already been set up.
0:45:10Yep. Right, it's like we're just going to continue
0:45:12to execute what has been set up and then thinking forward toward the next year.
0:45:17There's no point for course correction unless there's something significantly wrong, which
0:45:22there isn't.
0:45:23I mean, you're course correcting in some way in that you're getting help.
0:45:28Yes, that's true.
0:45:29Although I will still say that all of this is falling under the year of less.
0:45:34This is why that project was set up for this year.
0:45:38And to go even on a zoom out one additional level is another part of the motivation behind
0:45:47the Year of Less was also relates to what we were discussing before, which is recognizing
0:45:52I have been really bad at taking vacation time for myself, and the last vacation time
0:45:59that I theoretically had over the summer, I was not very good at doing that.
0:46:03I was bad at vacationing.
0:46:06And so the Year of Less is in a larger part a way of thinking of, okay, well, how can
0:46:11I set up structures so that it is easier for me to take some dedicated amount of time off,
0:46:17right? And but that but even that is like, okay, I need to get those systems in place in
0:46:232016 if there is any hope of
0:46:26rearranging schedules or commitments in
0:46:292017.
0:46:31It's funny to think of these things on such a long term,
0:46:35but if you don't think about this stuff,
0:46:38you can't do any kind of course correction in your life and
0:46:41Everything always takes longer than you think it's it's going to
0:46:45So that's why it can take a whole year to think about how can I reduce the number of hours that I am
0:46:52working on stuff while not dramatically reducing the actual output and then if
0:46:57That is successful that can have knock-on effects towards what happens in in the future
0:47:04Do you have anything that you want to reveal about your 2017 Myke any secret plans you want to tell the people about?
0:47:08I don't have secret plans yet
0:47:10So, what are you thinking about then towards 2017 like what what is pulling your mind in that direction?
0:47:16It was the same thing as last year. So the the 2016 change was
0:47:22cutting a show and
0:47:25Reducing the schedule of some others. Mm-hmm
0:47:28So it will be the same kind of thing I expect
0:47:32Like that's what I'm thinking now is like, okay, that worked pretty well
0:47:36What can I do? So are there any shows which would be natural to end at the end of the year?
0:47:42And are there any shows which would be natural to reduce commitment in some way?
0:47:47Maybe I don't change the publishing schedule of them
0:47:52But maybe there are parts of the process which I won't need I won't do anymore
0:47:56Whether that is planning it differently or editing it differently
0:48:01What are the changes that I can make to reduce?
0:48:05And this is the thing. It's not for me about reducing the amount of work. It's
0:48:10Freeing up time again. Mm-hmm. So I'm not looking to like do less and chill
0:48:17Mm-hmm, you know, I'm not getting into the gray mentality. It's just just chill
0:48:21I'm looking to reduce
0:48:24commitments so I can do
0:48:27new things
0:48:29Mmm, because I like working I like it a lot
0:48:32And a lot of the time off stuff that I do is to enable myself to be able to work more effectively
0:48:39Because I give myself the time to relax because I know that that helps me but in the same vein
0:48:44I also then try and find ways and I don't know if this is good or bad to turn the things that I enjoy into work
0:48:50So it all comes full circle. It doesn't stop my enjoyment of those things
0:48:55I still play video games for 12 hours, but then I just do a podcast episode about it
0:49:00And it feels like it was all okay, right you're getting return on investment for entertainment time there
0:49:05Yeah, well this I think this is
0:49:09This is a very
0:49:12natural thing and
0:49:14My version of this as well is is like I am I know that I am
0:49:21happier with side projects and other things to work on aside from the main things and it's similar thing of feeling that I
0:49:29want to be able to clear time on my schedule and part of that means like, you know,
0:49:36I always have like projects that I'm thinking about. Oh, maybe this would work out. Maybe this this would work out
0:49:41and I am filtering them all now through the
0:49:43year of less
0:49:46filter that if they're successful other people need to be able to do them or I need to be able to pass them on or
0:49:50they need to be completed things. Again, I'm very happy to have that mental filter in place,
0:49:55but I'm still very much in the mindset of as well freeing up time and very consciously not working on any of those side projects
0:50:02until I have freed up a significant number of hours.
0:50:04But then the thing that I'm also wondering about is I agree with you that that vacation time is necessary recovery time and
0:50:11recognizing like I haven't been good at that and so feeling is there a way to
0:50:16Aggregate a bunch of these hours together so that in the future at some point I can say I am taking a legitimate
0:50:21100% week off. I am doing nothing and I am going to feel glorious about it and
0:50:27That will be okay. And then after that recovery period going back into
0:50:32the regular schedule because
0:50:36Even though again our very first episode was titled "I don't really like work"
0:50:42I am very aware that I am still in the category of the kind of person who, if I don't have something to work on, I would go crazy.
0:50:51Like, I need to have some kind of work to do, and without that it would just be a descent into madness.
0:51:01So there always has to be stuff to work on.
0:51:03But there's the interesting question of how do you rearrange hours in the day?
0:51:08How do you arrange your time to be most effective so that you can work on the things that are of interest to you and that are also hopefully profitable in some way to pay the bills?
0:51:23And to fulfill all of the various financial obligations that we all have.
0:51:27What is a gray vacation? Or a graycation, if you will.
0:51:32I mean here's the thing those trips to Amsterdam which we have made fun of various times on this show
0:51:39Workations. Yeah
0:51:41those were
0:51:44In a way my attempts this year to try to do a vacation sort of
0:51:50But I knew I wasn't able to actually take time off to do nothing
0:51:56but I found those very interesting experiences because I
0:52:01I was working in a very, very focused way,
0:52:05but I also felt like I am getting a lot of the same benefits that I would get from a vacation.
0:52:13And I think this is just simply the, again, knowing yourself and knowing how to work with yourself,
0:52:20and because I am quite naturally an introverted person,
0:52:27those trips were intentionally arranged so that like I'm not really talking to
0:52:32anybody when I'm there.
0:52:33And I was also very consciously minimizing as much as possible my
0:52:38communication with the outside world.
0:52:40And so those were really interesting experiences to me
0:52:46of,
0:52:47I feel like I am able to have some kind of recovery while
0:52:51still working.
0:52:53as long as I am very conscious about being aware of what are the things that are most
0:52:58draining to me.
0:53:00And it's like, oh, okay, well, one of those things are unusual or new social engagements,
0:53:07or things like the podcast where this is not an unusual or new social engagement, but there
0:53:13is something about this which is always a bit mentally draining in the same way because
0:53:19there is the awareness of the audience that is listening.
0:53:22This is a thing that is going out into the public world. This is not Myke and I just meeting for a lunch conversation
0:53:29so
0:53:32Those trips are really interesting and I think
0:53:35Oftentimes many people's idea of what a vacation might be or it's like oh well
0:53:40We're gonna go away with a bunch of people to a fun place like that can actually be hugely draining for me
0:53:45like that is what's
0:53:46That is what is going to happen this summer in no small part with some of the family obligations that I have is
0:53:51is to any outside observer, the activities that I am doing, they will look like vacations,
0:53:58but I will be totally exhausted by them.
0:54:01It's like, "Oh, I'm not doing a whole lot of work, there's just a whole bunch of hanging out with people,
0:54:07and like, oh, there's things to do and activities to participate in, and this looks like a vacation."
0:54:12But it is not. It is not if you are me.
0:54:16So I think for me vacations at their best are always about limits in activity or very conscious choices about what is being engaged in.
0:54:31That to me is what a vacation is. That is what I feel like is the best return on investment per hour spent of recovery received.
0:54:42So is Amsterdam the best type of vacation then or is it sitting on a beach?
0:54:47for you
0:54:50Or that kind of holiday the not doing anything holiday. What's best then if it's like
0:54:55low
0:54:58Low social interaction
0:55:00And low work interaction is you know because Amsterdam is high work interaction. Yeah, I
0:55:09This is what I'm trying to think about towards
0:55:11towards for next year is like how am I going to do this and one of the things I'm thinking about is an
0:55:17Amsterdam type trip is
0:55:20very effective because it is it is high work
0:55:24but low social interaction high recovery, but I still need
0:55:32trips or vacations every once in a while that have some period of time which is just absolute nothingness.
0:55:39And so,
0:55:41last summer, which was quite busy, at the end of the trip the best decision that
0:55:46my wife and I made was that after a whole bunch of things that we were doing, a place we were going, and like
0:55:51things to do, we intentionally scheduled
0:55:55a mini post-vacation recovery time by going to Las Vegas and
0:56:01and we just rented a nice room in Las Vegas and did nothing for a few days.
0:56:08And it was just glorious.
0:56:10And that was a real kind of like, this is great, I can relax, I can just...
0:56:17There's nothing to do, I need this every once in a while, there's no responsibility,
0:56:21there's no getting up, there's no writing, it's just a total break.
0:56:26And because that is a thing that went really well last summer,
0:56:29that is actually what we're planning on doing again this summer.
0:56:32It's like, I have this incredibly unusual busy summer,
0:56:35but at the very end of it, the last thing that we're going to do
0:56:38is we are, once again, we're going to go to Las Vegas, we're renting a nice room,
0:56:43we're gonna spend a few days there, and we're just going to do nothing.
0:56:48And I feel like I need a little bit more of the "do nothing at all" time in my life
0:56:54than I currently have.
0:56:56Like I feel over the past two years in particular I have had
0:57:00Too little do-nothing time. I don't need a ton of it
0:57:05But I need some of it on a somewhat of an interval that it doesn't just randomly
0:57:11It doesn't just randomly occur. But now this is one of these cases where I
0:57:16Imagine Myke that you might be a little bit different from me in this scenario
0:57:21What's a Myke-cation like?
0:57:25- Well, recently, most of my vacations
0:57:30are centered around conferences.
0:57:34And it's because I take my vacations
0:57:39as times to see my friends,
0:57:41because very few of my friends
0:57:42live in the same country as me.
0:57:44- Right.
0:57:45- You do, which is great, which means I see you often.
0:57:49Other friends, I maybe see once a year.
0:57:52Or twice a year, something like that.
0:57:53So I'm able to couple these things in,
0:57:55because they're also interesting locations.
0:57:59I very much like going to America
0:58:01and it's usually nice places in America
0:58:03that I'll go to for this sort of stuff.
0:58:05And they are kind of work-cations
0:58:08'cause they're a worky type things happening,
0:58:10but it's way lower.
0:58:12I tend not to record on these things.
0:58:14If I do, it's very few.
0:58:17I've tried, like San Francisco last year, WWDC last year
0:58:21was quite a lot of show recordings
0:58:23and other things happening and this year was planned very differently to hopefully, maybe
0:58:30it did, who knows, it's already happened but maybe it was better, maybe it wasn't.
0:58:35We'll find out and adjust again.
0:58:38Recording with you was an unexpected thing on the calendar.
0:58:42Hi.
0:58:43Hey ho.
0:58:44That's how these things go.
0:58:45It's all about cooperation.
0:58:48And I do like though the do nothing vacation.
0:58:51I just don't really plan for those as much.
0:58:55Because one of the things that has occurred is
0:58:59me and Nadina like to make sure we try
0:59:01and take trips together, which typically means
0:59:04that she will take a trip with me to a friend's location
0:59:08in America centered around a thing happening,
0:59:10and then maybe I will take trips with her to Romania
0:59:13and we'll see friends.
0:59:15But we are thinking, again, for later this year
0:59:20to maybe take a trip with my family,
0:59:24which will be a do nothing vacation.
0:59:27Because I feel like I could do that.
0:59:31When I take family vacations, or have taken,
0:59:34or would take family vacations,
0:59:36I would feel way less obligated to do stuff with my family
0:59:41than maybe you do.
0:59:41I feel like there is an obligation within you
0:59:44to when you're on a family vacation, family activities.
0:59:48I don't really do that and my family understand that about me, which is actually quite interesting
0:59:55though going talking about this is I may be more you with my family than you are.
1:00:00Yeah, with my immediate family, there is no obligation to really do things.
1:00:05Ah ha, I have a very small family, you see. So I think that's why I'm able to get away
1:00:11with it. But people tend not to bother me and my family with stuff because they know
1:00:15I just have no tolerance for it. Which is quite nice. So on a family vacation I wouldn't
1:00:22do anything like that. If we don't do that trip I would very much before the end of the
1:00:28year like for us to do a do nothing vacation. The house buying process might kind of get
1:00:32in the way of that. But yeah I like to try and do that as well but the majority of my
1:00:38vacations are centered around some kind of big activity that brings people together.
1:00:43Yeah, for me an interesting intersection of sort of doing nothing but also engaging was
1:00:51a few years ago my parents treated my wife and I to a cruise so the four of us went on a cruise
1:01:01and it was just fantastic because a cruise ship is an environment in which
1:01:12While there are many things going on, I again really enjoyed the constraint of it.
1:01:18It's like, well, there's not actually a whole lot to do.
1:01:21The internet is unusable because it's going through a satellite.
1:01:27And it's like, oh, actually, that's a benefit. I like this.
1:01:30There's not really any internet to use.
1:01:33There's very little to do except kind of like sit and read a book and watch the scenery go by.
1:01:40And a cruise ship is also a nice environment where it's like, oh,
1:01:44because it's relatively small, like you keep bumping into my parents, right?
1:01:48You can't, you can't not run into people.
1:01:50And it's, it's like an artificial tiny village almost.
1:01:55Yeah.
1:01:56In this really constrained but enjoyable way.
1:02:00And there's always something to like remark upon because the cruise ship is
1:02:06going past interesting places.
1:02:07And I found that was just a really pleasant way to have a trip that just totally felt like recovery time,
1:02:16but also had the thing that is beneficial and best about traveling, which is novelty.
1:02:23Like your brain needs some kind of novelty, otherwise you become like Myke was.
1:02:29You're bored or you feel like you're an indoor cat.
1:02:32And I don't know, I found that was just a really great interaction.
1:02:38Like this is just perfect. This is an absolutely perfect experience.
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1:04:42I feel like we've been really philosophical on this episode, Myke.
1:04:47This episode being an episode out of time, it has a totally different feel to it.
1:04:53Do you feel that?
1:04:53It is weird, right?
1:04:55I feel way more raw than usual.
1:04:58Yeah, I'm looking for.
1:05:01It's very strange.
1:05:02It is. Raw is a good word.
1:05:05Maybe the continuity somehow keeps us safe.
1:05:10Maybe.
1:05:11When we're out of continuity, everything just goes out the window.
1:05:15Yeah. It almost feels like I'm just, I'm here in my office, just floating in the black void of space talking into a microphone.
1:05:26That is the feeling of this episode.
1:05:28It is weird.
1:05:29From my perspective.
1:05:30Because I don't, there's so much uncertainty to it.
1:05:33Yeah.
1:05:34have happened to our lives in between now and this episode being released we
1:05:38don't even know yeah who knows nobody knows it's just been it's been very
1:05:44strange this episode out of time and I think I think we need to try to try to
1:05:51get ourselves back into the regular space-time continuum with some normality
1:05:57and I think we should do that with a little bit of a score tax that's a great
1:06:02idea let's bring the people back to us yeah yeah that's what it is this is like
1:06:05calling out in the void to the other voices that have spoken to us please
1:06:11tell me that you have some ask cortex questions I do I do and the first one's
1:06:16from Kevin look at that your voice is even normal now or happy again if the
1:06:22normal mic voice okay Kevin would like to know what is your relationship with
1:06:27Magic the Gathering. Apparently Kevin has recognized some references in the video
1:06:33and was wondering if you have played and if you do play. Do you know what
1:06:38Magic the Gathering is Myke? I know what it is yes, a trading card game. Okay yeah
1:06:43yeah magic is a trading card game it is I'm not it is one of the first I ever
1:06:53came across. I don't know how early it is in the history of these actual things of
1:06:58collectible card game kind of stuff. I feel like it is the one though, right? Like it is the
1:07:05trading card game. It feels like the progenitor of the modern idea of what
1:07:12trading card games are. And I got into Magic when I was in high school I think?
1:07:20I can't remember how but it was it was right at the very beginning because I remember
1:07:24reading some article in some physical magazine that was talking about this new thing and I thought it looked cool and
1:07:34Remember bugging my parents to take me to some game shop so that I could buy these cards. Mm-hmm and
1:07:40Of course, I didn't realize that these card games are
1:07:46Set up to be like drug habits
1:07:50That you right you can get in really easy right you can you can start out by just oh here you go you buy yourself
1:07:56A starter deck and oh hey, maybe kid. Do you want to buy some expansion packs? I'm like oh yeah
1:08:01I would like to buy some expansion packs and then next year
1:08:04They come out with the more powerful version of the drug and so you have to buy more
1:08:08expansion packs if you want to if you want to keep up with what's happening in the game and
1:08:12I really liked it
1:08:15magic just
1:08:17super fit the kind of thing that my brain likes.
1:08:21Thinking about all of the different cards and how all of the cards interact with all of the other cards and the systems of it.
1:08:27I really, really liked it.
1:08:29But I did not have a large enough wallet at the time to express how much I liked
1:08:37Magic. And so my feeling of magic from from being a kid was mostly "I do not have enough money to play this game."
1:08:45I always have to play it with whatever cards I have just scrounged together.
1:08:48So I really liked it a lot as a kid. As an adult
1:08:53I have played some of the iPad versions of it because it's a much cheaper way to get into the game.
1:08:57I'm not super into it as an adult in no small part because there have been
1:09:02so many expansions and so many add-ons that the game is
1:09:07horrifically complicated now if you haven't been following it every year with all the little changes that they make.
1:09:14But yeah, Magic the Gathering. Quite like it. Got into it as a kid and if I can make a 15 years out of date Magic the Gathering reference in my videos I'm not going to pass up on that.
1:09:27Have you ever played Hearthstone?
1:09:29*sigh* Hearthstone is really fun. Have you played Hearthstone?
1:09:35Yeah, I have played and sucked so bad.
1:09:39Listen, there's never a discussion about how good we are at these things. It's just a question of have you played?
1:09:46Yeah, I have played.
1:09:48Hearthstone is, for listeners, it's
1:09:51To me, it feels like the next generation of Magic the Gathering
1:09:56It's it's all on the iPad or on desktop. It's cross platform. Yeah, I always forget that it's on desktop
1:10:03Yeah, it's a collectible card game
1:10:05But what I love about it is they so understand that nobody has physical cards here
1:10:10It is the abstract idea of a card and it allows them to do a lot of really interesting things digitally with the game
1:10:16Hearthstone is a thing that I slide in and out of but I think it's it's really fun, but Hearthstone
1:10:23Totally killed my ability to play magic because all of the things that you learn in magic that make you a good magic player
1:10:32I think Hearthstone was designed
1:10:35specifically so that all of your magic habits will just be like
1:10:40Sliding a knife into your own gut when you play the game if you play it like oh
1:10:46I love I love magic based card games
1:10:48Let me play a hearthstone and it's like oh
1:10:50I'm going to die immediately everything that I would do in magic which would be a
1:10:54Smart strategic move will get you killed immediately in hearthstone
1:10:57So I think I'm probably never gonna go back to playing magic because once you do hearthstone, it's it's hard to go
1:11:04back, but it's super fun. I really like it and it's fun to play people anonymously online.
1:11:11I'm not very good at all, but I don't care. Like that's not the point is to be good. The point is I'm doing something fun while I'm sitting on the couch.
1:11:19The only trading card game, physical trading card game I've ever played was the Pokemon trading card game.
1:11:25Of course.
1:11:26Which was awesome. They even made a Game Boy version of the card game, which was great too.
1:11:33Pokemon trading card game huh? Yep it's still going it's still a very popular
1:11:39trading card game they're still making it still producing packs and stuff like
1:11:43that yeah I used to play it with my friends you know during the whole
1:11:47massive Pokemon phase mm-hmm and yes that's the only one I've ever played but
1:11:52I remember when I would buy my packs that magic were always in the same cases
1:11:56from the places that I bought them from that's how I know about magic because it
1:12:00was always there when I was buying the booster packs for the Pokemon.
1:12:04Mmm.
1:12:05I'm just looking at it, yeah.
1:12:08Man, you gotta get that shiny Charizard.
1:12:10That was the card, man.
1:12:13That was the card.
1:12:15Oh, of course, I just realized everyone will want to know, all the Magic players will want
1:12:19to know.
1:12:20When I played Magic, my preferred colors were blue and black.
1:12:25So yeah, fun memories.
1:12:27Do you play the Pokemon game very much anymore?
1:12:29No, I don't even have any cards anymore. Like I don't know where they are. I had a big collection of cards. I used to love it.
1:12:35I still have a box of magic cards at my parents house that they have in a box of a bunch of like stuff from when I was a kid.
1:12:41I expect all of my Pokemon cards are at my grandma's.
1:12:44I find it really hard not to look through them when I remember that they exist.
1:12:50I just pull them out and I look at them and I'm like "Yes, I remember setting up this deck."
1:12:53Like "Yes, this was a really fun deck. Oh, this was a good combination."
1:12:57It's just a thing that my mind likes to turn over and over.
1:13:02You can't escape some of that stuff.
1:13:05Now I have a question that I've been wanting to ask you just because it's going to be so difficult to ask the question.
1:13:12Oh, okay.
1:13:13So this comes from Alan.
1:13:15And Alan says, "When Grey uses this face, then inserts a character, where does that face come from?
1:13:22Do you have it locally and copy and paste it or do you Google it every time?
1:13:25Now how would you describe the face character that Alan has, you just sent it to me over iMessage,
1:13:34how would you describe this face character? What is this?
1:13:37This is the face of disapproval. That's what this face is.
1:13:42Now it's not an emoji, right? It is text based. It's more, I guess...
1:13:46It's not an emoji. It's an old school emoticon.
1:13:49emoticon. Back in the day, we used to build our little facial expressions out of the characters
1:13:55that we had available.
1:13:56You're not that much older than me. I used to do this.
1:13:59We didn't have people just drawing emoji for us. We had to build them with our own hands,
1:14:04Myke.
1:14:05Artisanally created emoticons.
1:14:06Of course, a hipster would think, "You're right to artisanal." No. We're not artisanal.
1:14:13We're just chiseling them out of characters.
1:14:16What is this? Has it got a name that you know?
1:14:20I think it's just called the Disapproval Face. I'm gonna check it right now.
1:14:24So where does it come from for you when you use it? Do you have like a text expanders
1:14:27snippet or something?
1:14:30Its official name is called the Look of Disapproval. And it'll be in the show notes. Anybody who
1:14:37has ever been on Reddit will know exactly what we're talking about. But yes, it is this
1:14:41stern looking emoticon face with little horizontal mouth
1:14:46And I think they're Thai symbols or something which are the eyes
1:14:49But that end up just looking like eyes that are staring into your soul with furrowed brows
1:14:54But yeah, I came I came across this on
1:14:57Reddit you know ages and ages ago, and I think that it is just an absolute perfect
1:15:02emoticon for very many situations and so I have it set up as one of those the sinking keyboard
1:15:10Shortcuts that Apple has. Yes
1:15:12So I can I can whip it out at the appropriate moment immediately
1:15:17So what do I type? I don't even know like it just built into my
1:15:21Now that I'm thinking about it
1:15:25Okay, what do I type I type I
1:15:29type disq and that is my little shortcut for
1:15:32Disapproval phase. Mm-hmm. And so the the moment that I need
1:15:37to over the internet glare at someone with a disapproving face. I have it right at my fingertips.
1:15:42Rumor33 asked, "Are there any side projects that Gray wishes would have been the big thing to take off instead of YouTube?"
1:15:50That's an interesting question.
1:15:53The thing that's that's tricky to answer about that is to express appropriately
1:15:58my feelings towards all of the projects that I've worked on and my feelings of them is I love them as much as they have been
1:16:06successful. And so, like I really like the YouTube project because it has been
1:16:14really successful and I don't have a feeling toward any of the past projects
1:16:19of "oh I wish this one had been the one to catch on." It's more feeling like "oh I
1:16:26worked on this thing for a while and it didn't really go anywhere and then I
1:16:31moved on to the next thing. And so, no, I don't look backward on it in that way.
1:16:41It's... I don't know if this is the best analogy, but I always think of it as like
1:16:47placing bets on a table. And so this question is almost like asking, "Do you
1:16:53wish that any of the bets that you had previously made had paid off?" So, well, I
1:16:59I think you're thinking about this in the wrong way if you know you're placing a bunch of bets and
1:17:03you're hoping that some of them are successful and then
1:17:07You are happy when one of them turns out to be successful
1:17:11But you don't you don't think about like oh
1:17:14That black 32 six weeks ago. I really wish that had been the one like it's much more of a like a system
1:17:22Than it is a series of events. That's that's kind of the way I think about it
1:17:26Yeah, because it was always about which one would be the one to provide the result you were looking for.
1:17:33Right, which was to be able to control my own schedule and work on my own, right?
1:17:37Like that was the thing that I was aiming for and
1:17:41the various projects were different attempts to try and get there. Like I did, you know,
1:17:48maybe we can talk about it in more detail on some future or maybe past show.
1:17:54I don't know we will have spoken about it
1:17:56But I think the the closest thing that to that is a feeling of it was actually frustrating more
1:18:05For some of the projects that were partially paying off
1:18:08because I feel like those were things that
1:18:11sucked up a lot of my time because it felt like oh man if I can make this a little bigger this will be great and
1:18:20So in some sense I preferred the things that I worked on that were
1:18:24Immediately obviously terrible ideas or that just didn't work whereas I had for a while there
1:18:30I had a few things that I was working on
1:18:32I was like I'm earning a little bit of money from this and I'm earning a little bit of money from that and I had
1:18:36This just this very frustrating feeling of like I like can I just cobble this together or can I make this twice as big?
1:18:41And so those in a sense were bets that in a way were like more
1:18:48successful than my just straight-up unsuccessful bets
1:18:51Because they were not winners and they also took up a bunch of my time
1:18:56All right, Tobias wants to know if we make our beds every morning
1:19:00I already know from surprising you on FaceTime that one time. I should have seen this coming
1:19:06That you do not make your bed every morning. I don't make my bed every morning
1:19:09One of the great pleasures in my life is the fact that it doesn't bother my girlfriend about if our bed is made
1:19:17You are a lucky man then neither of us seem to care about it every now and then we'll do it
1:19:23But like hang on a second. Yeah. No, it's an absolute disaster right now
1:19:26It's right behind you right now. It's right behind me right now and we're both pretty cool about that. I think
1:19:32Maybe she's I don't know harboring some kind of resentment towards me that I'm not aware of yet quite possibly
1:19:38Yeah, it's very possible. I think everyone in my life has some kind of resentment towards me
1:19:43Yeah, I've got some data that says so
1:19:46[laughs]
1:19:48But no, I don't make my bed every morning.
1:19:52I bet you do.
1:19:54So I used to not, because I used to fall under the category of, "Well, what does this matter? I'm just gonna mess it up later anyway."
1:20:03Yeah.
1:20:04And I think that is a totally reasonable position.
1:20:07But I can't remember where I came across it, but at some point I came across on a podcast or something,
1:20:12was really selling the idea of you need to make your bed every morning and I'm
1:20:19always open to trying stuff like I can't remember what they said but whatever
1:20:23they said it I felt like it was convincing and so I went through a
1:20:27period where I was going through an effort of making sure that the bed was
1:20:32made every morning I was like oh this does seem to have intangible benefits
1:20:40that I cannot quite quantify that do make making the bed worthwhile. It's again
1:20:50hard to put into words but it feels like it is definitely something and so I now
1:20:56do try to make the bed in the morning if it is unmade. There's a little
1:21:01bit of a there's a little bit of a thing here with the morning schedule that I am
1:21:04usually up and out of the house before my wife is even awake and then it
1:21:09depends on like she has varying schedules about when she needs to be
1:21:12someplace in the morning so sometimes she makes the bed sometimes she doesn't
1:21:14have time and if I come home and I see the bed is unmade I will sometimes try
1:21:18to make it like but I don't know like randomly sometimes the bed will be made
1:21:21or sometimes it'll be unmade but the thing that my wife has noticed is that I
1:21:28am not perfectly consistent about making the bed in a way that I don't notice but
1:21:32But of course she is aware and she is able to use the madeness of the bed as a proxy
1:21:40for how on top of his life does my husband feel?
1:21:44Right?
1:21:45So--
1:21:46Mm, canary in the coal mine right there, my friend.
1:21:47That's exactly it.
1:21:48So I don't know, maybe, maybe intentionally she leaves the bed unmade sometimes as like
1:21:53a little test to see is he feeling really busy and overwhelmed right now, so overwhelmed
1:21:58that he's not going to make the bed, or is he feeling totally on top of things?
1:22:01I guess I'll know when I'll come home.
1:22:03Maybe that's what she does.
1:22:04I don't know.
1:22:05Grey?
1:22:06Yeah?