The Incomparable

274: Rudolph`s Hideous Mutation

 

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  the uncomfortable the incomparable [TS]

  number 207 before november 2015 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to be [TS]

  uncomfortable podcast on your host Jason [TS]

  Steele we are here to celebrate the [TS]

  holiday season in that period allotted [TS]

  to us before the new Star Wars movie [TS]

  comes out and talk about Star Wars so to [TS]

  talk about classic holiday TV specials [TS]

  i'm joined by a fine panel people Steve [TS]

  Lutz is not one of them but he's here to [TS]

  my studio i'm also present up 5 4 a's [TS]

  dog food or raise to you Jason still [TS]

  thank you i will test you with my [TS]

  two-and-a-half foot pole later David [TS]

  lower also there hello [TS]

  I i wish you all a holly jolly podcast [TS]

  very very nice Glenn Fleischman is out [TS]

  there [TS]

  hello hello we're talking about woohoo [TS]

  serious or is it yahoo Jorge tonight at [TS]

  last rack we're celebrating Christmas [TS]

  commercially oh yeah even commercially [TS]

  even commercial might I was going you [TS]

  didn't have your aluminum tree [TS]

  I got a festivus pole and i'll show you [TS]

  where that's going should have a [TS]

  half-foot I hope Shannon others also out [TS]

  there [TS]

  hello hello silver and gold all this is [TS]

  very good and she just wants to be a [TS]

  dentist in saline sims hi i hope my [TS]

  heart grows two sizes this day [TS]

  oh I have some bad news for you wow that [TS]

  leads to an enlarged heart and it's a [TS]

  fatal convention that i recommend a [TS]

  standing desk [TS]

  yeah that's how the grinch did it so [TS]

  where we're going to talk about three [TS]

  classic TV specials that were released i [TS]

  did not even realize this when we pick [TS]

  them in successive years success of [TS]

  Christmases interesting isn't it isn't [TS]

  it's it's a so few classic christmas [TS]

  specials and they all kind of came in a [TS]

  clump in the middle 60 like another done [TS]

  what was it in the water that caused [TS]

  this i don't know but 1964 'he's Rudolph [TS]

  the red-nosed reindeer a rankin/bass [TS]

  production in claymation there is a [TS]

  Charlie Brown Christmas which is [TS]

  celebrating its 50th anniversary this [TS]

  Christmas from nineteen sixty-five and [TS]

  1966 is how the grinch stole christmas [TS]

  with an exclamation point [TS]

  those are the the [TS]

  three specials that we're going to be [TS]

  talking about all classics [TS]

  you know you could you could say there's [TS]

  sort of an inflection point where the [TS]

  way Christmas is celebrated and marketed [TS]

  really shifted in the early sixties [TS]

  after television really hit and all of [TS]

  these kind of have that same theme of [TS]

  it's not it's not the toys it's not the [TS]

  marketing its here's what Christmas is [TS]

  all about right what is what is the true [TS]

  yes in fact the plots of at least two of [TS]

  these specials are really similar as was [TS]

  pointed out to me earlier [TS]

  really yeah and you know an overarching [TS]

  it turns out well we'll get to it also [TS]

  I'm always amused by how how much in [TS]

  jeopardy Christmas is Christmas is a is [TS]

  a is a holiday that is right on the edge [TS]

  of being ruined at all times [TS]

  there's always been a war on Christmas [TS]

  yea verily it is it's true you could it [TS]

  could it could fall apart any minute [TS]

  except in Whoville but we'll get there [TS]

  because we're going to start with [TS]

  Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer we're [TS]

  gonna go chronologically 1964 this this [TS]

  stop-motion animation rankin/bass they [TS]

  did a whole lot of specials but this was [TS]

  the one that that is I think the most [TS]

  famous in that and then made their made [TS]

  their careers actually Jules bass and [TS]

  artists such as they were so well you [TS]

  know your year without the Santa Claus [TS]

  your your frosty the snowman your [TS]

  hospitals is coming to town yeah there [TS]

  they did a bunch mad monster party this [TS]

  one so this one of course chronicles the [TS]

  story of of Rudolph the red-nosed [TS]

  reindeer as taken from the popular song [TS]

  you may not realize the from the book [TS]

  written by his brother-in-law and you [TS]

  have been 37 huh yeah it's a real threat [TS]

  was reading your article not a classic [TS]

  song a relatively at the time relatively [TS]

  recent kind of holiday novelty song and [TS]

  turned within like 25 years yeah yeah [TS]

  and turned into this story of what would [TS]

  really have been like to flesh out the [TS]

  story of that of the origin of the [TS]

  red-nosed reindeer and how he came to [TS]

  guide Santa's sleigh that night and the [TS]

  answer is that the North Pole is a [TS]

  terrible place full of all judgmental [TS]

  people who will brook no difference and [TS]

  everybody must be exactly the same to [TS]

  the point where his father Donner up [TS]

  on Rudolph being born and showing his [TS]

  glowing nose says well he's never gonna [TS]

  amount to anything now but he knows [TS]

  that's true because he's dealt with all [TS]

  the a-holes at the North its energy is [TS]

  like it's all the creatures my god i [TS]

  mean the elves are judgmental the your [TS]

  judgment my sanity is awful [TS]

  he knows exactly what Santa is going to [TS]

  say about it when he discovers it which [TS]

  is daughter you should be ashamed of [TS]

  yourself which is exactly what Santa [TS]

  said yeah you gotta worry about the big [TS]

  hole that's full of all the other [TS]

  reindeer with like green noses yellow [TS]

  noses infra red noses they load your [TS]

  ghost of they're all gone and not [TS]

  humanely [TS]

  yeah that's where reindeer meat comes [TS]

  from oh the guy i actually got an x-men [TS]

  vibe i tweeted about this i said earlier [TS]

  right rootin tootin and he's hated it [TS]

  for his mutant power and this isn't know [TS]

  where there are flying reindeer that's [TS]

  fine that's fine but you better not be a [TS]

  mutant with a glowing nose because then [TS]

  there is no place for you in this it [TS]

  just struck me that any obviously the [TS]

  message of this is one about like you [TS]

  can you know you we want to enjoy the [TS]

  fact that people are different and p [TS]

  it's okay to be different that is the [TS]

  message it's a very almost free to be [TS]

  you and me kind of message but while [TS]

  sending it also since the message that [TS]

  the North Pole is horrible i forgot [TS]

  watching this this time I forgotten how [TS]

  annoying the noise was too [TS]

  it's one thing that is nose closed but [TS]

  it also makes an incredibly noising [TS]

  annoying piercing noise [TS]

  yeah it has to suspect that might be [TS]

  part of that yeah it's true yeah because [TS]

  mom and I can't be selfie with with that [TS]

  noise that's right but they never bring [TS]

  that up do they [TS]

  the other very annoying those very noisy [TS]

  I like that Sam the Snowman actually [TS]

  points out how awful all of the going on [TS]

  at the North Pole is when you that he [TS]

  pointedly early on calls Rudolph's nose [TS]

  a nonconformity mmhmm yeah like he's [TS]

  pointing out this awful in a sort of [TS]

  1984's society where everyone must [TS]

  follow suit and have a normal black [TS]

  noses and you don't know what the elves [TS]

  do in room 101 well you know big brother [TS]

  is watching you that's how he knows that [TS]

  you've been not even [TS]

  good exactly it's all connected big [TS]

  Santa yeah yeah I also forgotten that [TS]

  Sam as a friend mechanism of the burl [TS]

  ives character is a he started talking a [TS]

  framing mechanism right but it sounds [TS]

  narrator he's completely it's just sort [TS]

  of this strange no other talking stuff i [TS]

  mean so we've gotta talking [TS]

  self-propelled snowman and that's okay [TS]

  too yeah we're talking both worlds [TS]

  snowman this world always apparently the [TS]

  only one of those so there's no one to [TS]

  not conform with his kids yeah [TS]

  Burl Ives can get away with a lot 3 i'm [TS]

  pretty sure the snowman is only an [TS]

  excuse to have somebody as good as Burl [TS]

  Ives be in the special LOL yeah that's [TS]

  true [TS]

  no yeah yeah this is my favorite [TS]

  christmas special when I was little I [TS]

  remember like because it only aired once [TS]

  a year we didn't have it like on VHS or [TS]

  whatever and it was the thing I had to [TS]

  watch and now it's been several years [TS]

  since I've seen it and so I sat down to [TS]

  watch it tonight in preparation for the [TS]

  show and oh what a let you [TS]

  oh my lord what a letdown but I kept [TS]

  thinking what whatever it off was gay [TS]

  like is this yeah that's interact as [TS]

  long as his nose isn't great i think [TS]

  you're really okay with that they are [TS]

  elves different the first thing the [TS]

  first thing that he's encouraged to do [TS]

  when he meets the adolescent reindeer [TS]

  for the first time to go talk to a girl [TS]

  and so right but what was happening in [TS]

  this world it is awful it is often but [TS]

  it was not saying it's okay to be awful [TS]

  to route off its expressly pointing out [TS]

  that it's okay to be a misfit I mean [TS]

  that's the whole point of the special [TS]

  it's true they're just throwing all of [TS]

  the beloved things about Christmas in [TS]

  the North Pole and Santa Claus under the [TS]

  bus to do it which is an interesting [TS]

  choice for a 21-8 you didn't catch all [TS]

  of that you're just like all these [TS]

  people are being pretty awful but come [TS]

  on it's Santa I know he's good deep down [TS]

  he's just mentioned it even as he rolls [TS]

  his eyes at the elves he has to deal [TS]

  with these damn elves trying to sing [TS]

  songs to him and a wife shoving food [TS]

  down his throat just as he just as he [TS]

  lost all the way he's gonna make weight [TS]

  yeah i mean if you want you all the [TS]

  later ranked and [TS]

  as things are like the year without a [TS]

  santa claus the story of Santa Claus he [TS]

  starts out as a young thin guy and he [TS]

  has been tortured by mrs. Claus all of [TS]

  these years clearly just fattening them [TS]

  up [TS]

  let's talk about the elves because you [TS]

  said that the elves I i enjoy Santa's [TS]

  again it's like two aliens point kind of [TS]

  enjoying it on a level that i did not [TS]

  enjoy it before but there is that level [TS]

  there which is why for example i enjoy [TS]

  States is contempt for the elves i think [TS]

  that is fantastic yeah the scene where [TS]

  they sing to him [TS]

  they're very proud of their songs [TS]

  they're doing their best to sing it the [TS]

  best possible way and just Santa reacts [TS]

  just with utter disdain the holes are [TS]

  looking away arms crossed and the whole [TS]

  thing ends and they look to him for his [TS]

  assessment he says well it needs work [TS]

  I have to go I'm out of here he's gone [TS]

  he's although I i also noticed in my [TS]

  family knows this too this is basically [TS]

  where will Ferrell is from in l.a yeah [TS]

  it's very clear that itself is taking [TS]

  this North Pole story from from this [TS]

  special as like the most I think it's [TS]

  the biggest influence on that movie [TS]

  because i can see i could see the this [TS]

  is the same characters although they're [TS]

  less the adapter is much less awful that [TS]

  then this Santa is but you don't spend [TS]

  much time with that as nurse oh it's [TS]

  possible he's just as I'm they make that [TS]

  obvious with the opening of elf wear it [TS]

  where it's all the stop-motion stuff [TS]

  yeah it sounds direct there is no yeah [TS]

  an elf they're actually caught their [TS]

  kind though it's like actually elves [TS]

  really feel bad for a matter their kind [TS]

  of him but not here because they're not [TS]

  because their way we meet Hermey the elf [TS]

  who just wants to be a dentist and and [TS]

  he doesn't fit in just like will ferrell [TS]

  doesn't fit actually an elf and and this [TS]

  leads to our body our buddy comedy are [TS]

  mismatched buddy comedy with her me and [TS]

  rudolf who did who basically are pushed [TS]

  out onto an ice flow they decide to [TS]

  leave the north pole in the middle of [TS]

  the storm and because they are there's [TS]

  no place for them there we gotta get [TS]

  back up a second though because we [TS]

  missed up miss Clarice [TS]

  hello police [TS]

  if you made it creepy glen and well yeah [TS]

  with a bit where he's she's very [TS]

  interested in him and he makes this [TS]

  giant leap he's thrust ya there [TS]

  there's no symbolism well the reason [TS]

  that she's she's into him is at that [TS]

  point he's wearing that enormous fake [TS]

  black nose yes and you know they say [TS]

  about the size of reindeers note now I [TS]

  don't want to say it I don't know [TS]

  actually was hoping you could tell me no [TS]

  okay [TS]

  this clearly predates self because by [TS]

  that point the elves have learned the [TS]

  lesson of Rudolph so they're nicer too [TS]

  buddy [TS]

  mhm okay all right at least someone [TS]

  learned headcanon wonder is is the [TS]

  enormous black fake nose and the speech [TS]

  impediment really better than the tiny [TS]

  glowing red nose is like the jimmy [TS]

  durante of reindeer Jimmy Durante [TS]

  narrated a different one [TS]

  he did well I think they felt bad after [TS]

  this of all the things they have a [TS]

  single out about his difference but [TS]

  that's the point of this right it's just [TS]

  it doesn't even matter it's just he's [TS]

  different from all the others he stands [TS]

  out and then and conformity is the order [TS]

  of Sam klutzes cruel northern eugenics [TS]

  and conformity daughters self-respect is [TS]

  more important than comfort [TS]

  yeah it's a I'm gonna I'm gonna throw in [TS]

  a sixties cartoon aside here by the way [TS]

  I grew up on the classic totally weird [TS]

  spiderman cartoon and while I was [TS]

  watching this I I turned to my wife and [TS]

  I said you know [TS]

  Wow rules dad is like Jay jonah Jameson [TS]

  from the spidey cartoon and then I went [TS]

  on IMDb it is the voice agility and some [TS]

  of the spiderman cartoon and in fact her [TS]

  me is the voice of spider-man from the [TS]

  spiderman cartoon network oh yes there's [TS]

  more I looked it up there's actually I [TS]

  think there are a bunch of people in it [TS]

  who are in the spidermans but next time [TS]

  you watch it just think the Donner is [TS]

  actually just charge mrs. grant from now [TS]

  on make sure Peter Parker place takes no [TS]

  part in our reporter game yeah i'm tired [TS]

  of these teenagers like Rudolph the same [TS]

  guy [TS]

  hermie senses tingling Oh Glenn no all [TS]

  right let me tell you about a sponsor on [TS]

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  yourself why would you put Hitler in the [TS]

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  hitler the better anyway secret Hitler [TS]

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  party games like mafia or werewolf or [TS]

  the resistance if you know those it [TS]

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  government this is definitely inspired [TS]

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  world war two and they are a majority [TS]

  group right but they have distrust and [TS]

  they need to learn to work together to [TS]

  overcome fascism and assassinate Hitler [TS]

  before he can take over the government [TS]

  so it's super intense but it's also [TS]

  really interesting and how it tries to [TS]

  take a page out of history and [TS]

  understand the dynamics that led to the [TS]

  rise for somebody who did not have the [TS]

  support of the majority but that person [TS]

  ended up taking control of the [TS]

  government so it is a little bit of [TS]

  history and a little bit of social [TS]

  commentary and also it falls into this [TS]

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  werewolf you know what i'm talking about [TS]

  very fun and very cool it's on [TS]

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  3,500 people have already backed it so [TS]

  when you back it on Kickstarter which [TS]

  you can do through december 23rd you're [TS]

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  more about it see it in action watch the [TS]

  videos at secret Hitler dot-com that's [TS]

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  this is a great idea for a game he's [TS]

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  encourage you to check it out especially [TS]

  if you played any of those social [TS]

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  I think you will find secret Hitler a [TS]

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  go to secret Hitler calm and thanks to [TS]

  max and everybody else pine secret [TS]

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  for sponsoring the uncomfortable and by [TS]

  the way Glenn was the secret Hitler all [TS]

  along they go off and end up almost [TS]

  being killed by the about the abominable [TS]

  snowman snowman who is the cutest [TS]

  monster ever I that poor things that [TS]

  we're not there yet but that poor thing [TS]

  they have a scale problem also and [TS]

  losers [TS]

  this is all my son notice that wasn't [TS]

  figure them out the size of a mountain [TS]

  and then later he he's just standing [TS]

  inside an hour that's that's a feature [TS]

  of rankin/bass like that so it's just [TS]

  gonna grate some sweet day their spatial [TS]

  awareness is terrible i mean towards the [TS]

  beginning daughter like takes off her [TS]

  flight and he's still inside the cave [TS]

  different like how did he not get stuck [TS]

  in the ceiling with his antlers he can [TS]

  he can shrink which is unlike the other [TS]

  reindeer and that's really freaky I've [TS]

  put a lot of thought into my Rudolph [TS]

  headcanon heavily now this is only [TS]

  appropriate he does start enormous and [TS]

  then and then get smaller when he needs [TS]

  to be smaller but they avoid you know [TS]

  what they say about reindeer with small [TS]

  nose now I don't what do they say did [TS]

  you might even say he grows oh so anyway [TS]

  they end up they literally end up on an [TS]

  ice floe in order to avoid the the [TS]

  abominable snowman and and they end up [TS]

  on the island of misfit toys which is a [TS]

  whole set piece where there are there [TS]

  are other nonconformist like them [TS]

  including a Charlie and in the box [TS]

  William which is skipper yeah exactly [TS]

  Marianne on the rest and and and there's [TS]

  a musical number about the about the [TS]

  island of misfit my voice not going to [TS]

  do something here though I'm few apps [TS]

  which is so just sent like at first my [TS]

  memory my headcanon was their abandoned [TS]

  their that they're imperfect in the [TS]

  elves like send them off there but in [TS]

  this I realize there's a this Lots [TS]

  flying lion of course and the flying [TS]

  lion yeah goes around the world to [TS]

  collide and so are they damaged by [TS]

  children is this kind of toy story [TS]

  scenario and then King what's-his-face [TS]

  goes in the the the lion is as land the [TS]

  there is actually there i'm telling the [TS]

  same cameras you know [TS]

  is yeah so yeah the the the facility [TS]

  flying line this is it there is a toy [TS]

  story thing I think I think I toy story [TS]

  is inspired by this in some ways to [TS]

  there is in fact a line in here about [TS]

  how toys will always want to be played [TS]

  with that that is a direct antecedent of [TS]

  of the entire concept about how the boys [TS]

  story world works [TS]

  this is my thinking and and they don't [TS]

  go into it for some reason but I'm [TS]

  pretty confident that all the misfit [TS]

  toys are actually the awful rejects that [TS]

  hermes been making all these years I [TS]

  heard that too yeah so it's really his [TS]

  fault they're there in the first it [TS]

  would be creative to get to the island [TS]

  and Hermes worshipped as a god [TS]

  fantastic no but this is my this is my [TS]

  issue though is are these toys liver to [TS]

  children and then King moonracer goes [TS]

  open oh and he goes and collects them so [TS]

  they're giving out and you make that [TS]

  they failed the quality control is [TS]

  really cool research going around the [TS]

  world you know finding some of them so [TS]

  maybe so [TS]

  hey what he says that but you'll notice [TS]

  he lives like half a at Arctic Circle [TS]

  away from the North Pole right it's [TS]

  pretty obvious where he's getting the [TS]

  toys from low i said i think I've [TS]

  thought a lot more about my headcanon [TS]

  than they thought about the script yeah [TS]

  it did not sound like cute little [TS]

  elephant with polka dots in the sixties [TS]

  is this a new invention because I [TS]

  couldn't figure out why the cute polka [TS]

  dotted elephant was a rejected toy [TS]

  elephants don't have spots tour I know [TS]

  that's what I thought but see we come a [TS]

  long way back then had a nonconformity [TS]

  was not allow always do you want to [TS]

  accept that yeah you will at least admit [TS]

  that the train with the square wheel [TS]

  caboose is under garbage right but oh [TS]

  yeah we're not there yet but it had to [TS]

  be an aluminum tree haha i'm just saying [TS]

  when they eventually deliver that kid [TS]

  the the square wheel caboose train at [TS]

  the very end when the misfit toys are [TS]

  handed out that's get kids got to be on [TS]

  the naughty list right Cole or square [TS]

  real trade your choice [TS]

  it's not that it's just like [TS]

  aesthetically unpleasing square wheels [TS]

  don't work is true just dragged along i [TS]

  mean i've seen teddy bears from from [TS]

  like the twenties and thirties and they [TS]

  were not photorealistic so i just i [TS]

  don't know like i have questions I guess [TS]

  no one ever explained what's matter with [TS]

  the doll either [TS]

  yeah she's kind of fucking yeah so I [TS]

  just assumed you had like one of her [TS]

  buttons was in the wrong place or [TS]

  something but you're right it's weird [TS]

  weird [TS]

  the judgmental but this whole thing is [TS]

  about that right that's the whole thing [TS]

  is weirdly its gentle yeah so they go so [TS]

  they go back and and and they kick it [TS]

  back into gear to the things that are [TS]

  actually in the story and the and the [TS]

  song because again speaking of your head [TS]

  canon this whole thing is like [TS]

  somebody's head canon of the song [TS]

  Rudolph the red-nosed wait how would [TS]

  that work [TS]

  the what if there's an island of misfit [TS]

  toys that's not mentioned at all in the [TS]

  song but just throw it in there but they [TS]

  get back on the plot where there's a [TS]

  foggy Christmas Eve and Santa's has to [TS]

  come to Rudolph and and use his glowing [TS]

  nose in order to get the get the the [TS]

  sleigh to because Christmas is ruined [TS]

  otherwise again xmas on the precipice of [TS]

  being ruined at all times and saved by [TS]

  by rudolf who who's deformity has [TS]

  suddenly become an asset conveniently [TS]

  now I question the supposed utility of [TS]

  Rudolph's hideous mutation and actually [TS]

  the elves who are expert craftsmen could [TS]

  quickly fashion some sort of head lamp [TS]

  for the lead reindeer surely faster than [TS]

  it takes to rejigger the harness know if [TS]

  its seventh team nope they they tried a [TS]

  whole bunch of them and they went up on [TS]

  the island of misfit toys before he went [TS]

  to go super tall so there's like a whole [TS]

  like yeah they just filled with [TS]

  headlamps they don't do I the lamps like [TS]

  that the circuitry just doesn't work [TS]

  they ran out of batteries of it it's a [TS]

  really detailed headcanon rato of [TS]

  malfunctioning headlamps is in here in [TS]

  GV weekend but the lorry Alice as we [TS]

  know interferes electrical signals and [TS]

  prevents effective use of anything yeah [TS]

  but then you can see things with the [TS]

  aurora borealis we can't we can't ignore [TS]

  the abominable snowman and my guidance [TS]

  to him lets his let's talk about him [TS]

  he's so he's so cute and then then the [TS]

  weird dentist elf pulls all his teeth [TS]

  how is he supposed to live I don't [TS]

  armies almonds has the bumble devoured [TS]

  other people we keep hearing about it we [TS]

  don't see where's the evidence we do see [TS]

  him attempting to eat one of the rain [TS]

  he just waved it around [TS]

  carried by that we like to savor his [TS]

  food and it kind of looks like he was [TS]

  trying to talk to them they're all the [TS]

  cave [TS]

  they're all gathered around him and he's [TS]

  just kind of looking at him and I don't [TS]

  know I call shenanigans they remember [TS]

  they're all monstrous they are i mean [TS]

  even our heroes are awful i mean her me [TS]

  rips out all the snow monsters teeth and [TS]

  ensure that surely breaks the dentist's [TS]

  code of ethics by the way you constantly [TS]

  throwing around that pickaxe encouraging [TS]

  children to lick pics at pickaxes in the [TS]

  middle of winter is not all right don't [TS]

  worry because he will be able to feed [TS]

  himself because there are four main food [TS]

  groups candy candy cane candy corn and [TS]

  syrup so he'll be able to take care of [TS]

  yourself with some friends [TS]

  that's why they need dentists in our [TS]

  members only maybe that's where all the [TS]

  sacrificed misfit reindeer in the future [TS]

  will go just chose movie yeah yeah great [TS]

  Yukon Cornelius after all of the teeth [TS]

  have been ripped out of this poor [TS]

  unassuming snow monster his first [TS]

  instinct is to push him off a cliff [TS]

  oh my god our hero is I think we need a [TS]

  new version of Rudolph that's told from [TS]

  the abominable snowman is perspective [TS]

  like bailable you know and in Grandal I [TS]

  think we need a grand ol because you [TS]

  need bumble all Envy bubble and he only [TS]

  does it [TS]

  that's right Ellie just in the end he'll [TS]

  II is happily living with the elbows [TS]

  right is because he's gone through some [TS]

  sort of reformation and training he's [TS]

  somebody's gonna need a common l's [TS]

  coming at all right uh any any other [TS]

  thoughts about about Rudolph in general [TS]

  lien has expressed her disappointment in [TS]

  my childhood little rash [TS]

  unlike the other two specials we're [TS]

  going to talk about this one goes on 44 [TS]

  double Lincoln hour-long special and and [TS]

  that is one of my problems with it is [TS]

  it's so slow and had they cut it in 30 [TS]

  minutes they could probably have done a [TS]

  fairly straight retelling of Rudolph the [TS]

  red-nosed reindeer filler stuff and it [TS]

  would have been a better special [TS]

  together [TS]

  well ranked invested that I mean almost [TS]

  all other specials were an hour or 90 [TS]

  minutes long [TS]

  yeah I'd I knew that things over the [TS]

  years have been cut as commercials had [TS]

  become more and more plentiful but I had [TS]

  forgotten there's like two song of [TS]

  recaps that you know totally you don't [TS]

  see anymore these days that you know [TS]

  like you said [TS]

  all the stuff doesn't need to be there [TS]

  to tell the story I think the island of [TS]

  misfit toys as part of its appeal and [TS]

  that's not in the song and all that but [TS]

  boy [TS]

  yeah they're so there's an awful lot [TS]

  that that goes on that this maybe not [TS]

  not necessary it doesn't it space it is [TS]

  pasted from a from a different time [TS]

  perhaps but they had a whole hour to [TS]

  fill and the song glass or three minutes [TS]

  so what you're going to do it definitely [TS]

  a different time I had forgotten just [TS]

  how just how firmly delineating the [TS]

  sexes the role of the sexes no other [TS]

  boys played the reindeer games while the [TS]

  girls watched and you know women don't [TS]

  get to go to a doctor tries to tell his [TS]

  wife you know do you know this is no [TS]

  place for a woman I'm going to go find [TS]

  it off his wife Shannon do you mean mrs. [TS]

  Donner she has no name [TS]

  she is a nameless female reindeer but [TS]

  you'll note that when Donner heads off [TS]

  looking for Rudolph telling her is man's [TS]

  work she immediately says screw you [TS]

  yes your honor of that is the way [TS]

  history yeah couple things I want to [TS]

  point out first of all you know for all [TS]

  the talk of how great the misfits are [TS]

  you'll note at the end that Santa [TS]

  doesn't bother to hand-deliver the [TS]

  misfit toys no he just keeled over [TS]

  outside with an umbrella you don't want [TS]

  to them there's probably even a house [TS]

  down there is a hundred miles out over [TS]

  the Pacific like firing t-shirts route [TS]

  off i'm john gonna deliver these misfit [TS]

  toys splash this jet engine other thing [TS]

  it and this is only interesting as a [TS]

  potential barbette but i don't think [TS]

  we'll get to this but i don't think that [TS]

  Charlie Brown ever says good grief in [TS]

  his christmas special but the elf [TS]

  Foreman and Rudolph lays out a good [TS]

  hearty good grave at one point so you [TS]

  know next time you're in a bar on [TS]

  Christmas Eve [TS]

  there you go Tyler's knowledge [TS]

  let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

  one of our sponsors it's the ministry of [TS]

  supply you know dress shirts should be [TS]

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  they should work with your body and not [TS]

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  ministry of supply it is a menswear [TS]

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  ironing I hate ironing it's the worst [TS]

  the most tech forward drescher they've [TS]

  got is called the Apollo like the space [TS]

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  smarter [TS]

  let's move ahead to 1965 to a Charlie [TS]

  Brown Christmas Charles Schultz's uh [TS]

  Peanuts characters appear and a [TS]

  Christmas special with with a music by [TS]

  Vince Guaraldi and the plot of this [TS]

  well Charlie Brown good old Charlie [TS]

  Brown everybody hates him he gets talked [TS]

  into directing a Christmas play by Lucy [TS]

  who's really the director of the [TS]

  Christmas play as some sort of elaborate [TS]

  prank so but she doesn't have to do the [TS]

  dirty work but can still say that she's [TS]

  in charge behind she's a producer [TS]

  perhaps I'm overlaying a little bit on [TS]

  here and and they don't wanna listen to [TS]

  Charlie Brown it's chaos they sent [TS]

  Charlie Brown out to get a tree he goes [TS]

  to a Christmas tree lot that's full of [TS]

  like multicolored aluminum Christmas [TS]

  trees and buys the saddest homeless [TS]

  christmas tree you'll ever see [TS]

  they mock infected then leave [TS]

  needles are constantly coming off they [TS]

  mock him for it when he returns it but [TS]

  in the end he takes it back to to his [TS]

  house i guess and and the it it's a [TS]

  pretty nice tree after all and they all [TS]

  see it and they wave their hands around [TS]

  it becomes a much larger tree that is [TS]

  well decorated magic [TS]

  meanwhile in the beep lot of a Charlie [TS]

  Brown Christmas Snoopy enters a [TS]

  Christmas lights contest and winds and [TS]

  that's the light for Charlie Brown [TS]

  Christmas basically yeah [TS]

  yes so i think i think this one still [TS]

  more or less holds up [TS]

  oh yeah absolutely old up because it's [TS]

  insane [TS]

  it is well the pace of it is crazy [TS]

  because it you can you when you watch it [TS]

  you realize you're just watching like [TS]

  weekly comic strips that's it's the [TS]

  wonderful thing about it is how gentle [TS]

  it is i think and that's why yes just [TS]

  sit back and sort of let it wash over [TS]

  you and and that the slow pace you just [TS]

  kind of you know kind of get in the [TS]

  groove with the garage as soundtrack is [TS]

  the MVP here because it really is always [TS]

  there [TS]

  I i listen to a year-round I was one of [TS]

  my may be in my top 10 albums of all [TS]

  genius [TS]

  it's amazing Schroeder can get that jazz [TS]

  trio out of his little piano well he's [TS]

  good this is good but yeah it is it's [TS]

  totally the music the couple days ago I [TS]

  had students working on something and [TS]

  somebody was like you know what [TS]

  Christmas music I'm ready for christmas [TS]

  music the center put on some Christmas [TS]

  music and so I fired up Pandora and [TS]

  vince guaraldi and you know here starts [TS]

  the linus and lucy theme and the next [TS]

  thing you know three for three quarters [TS]

  of my kids they're working and their [TS]

  heads are popping because they're and [TS]

  dana and then of course the most [TS]

  energetic one gets up and starts [TS]

  imitating all the dances but can also be [TS]

  the state you're doing it's just amazing [TS]

  how mean everyone is Charlie Brown which [TS]

  I realize the stick but somehow in the [TS]

  strips it comes across the slightly more [TS]

  gentle or it's a gag and she watched it [TS]

  once you want and left a bunch of it [TS]

  here in the last few weeks and i am just [TS]

  like yeah everyone is a total jerk to [TS]

  him like big there's no respect for his [TS]

  feelings even in the slightest degree [TS]

  but then then it's like the redemption [TS]

  is all yeah I guess you're okay [TS]

  he's like alright he's got PTSD the poor [TS]

  kid so what I've said about this on at [TS]

  the point of our previous holiday [TS]

  episodes is that the the individual [TS]

  elements of this should totally not work [TS]

  together [TS]

  I mean the animation is halting at best [TS]

  the fact that the jazz music as great as [TS]

  it is is mixed in with this particular [TS]

  show is really weird [TS]

  yes they the use of kids who couldn't [TS]

  even read so they had to feed them one [TS]

  line at a time should have been a train [TS]

  wreck [TS]

  Sally especially is like can barely even [TS]

  get the words out [TS]

  ok which is the best she's the best part [TS]

  I know I know I know it's just funny [TS]

  because it is all it is genuinely a [TS]

  little kid [TS]

  yeah and it's I mean it comes out so [TS]

  natural even though it's so unnatural [TS]

  and and but somehow the the the [TS]

  combination of these weird disparate [TS]

  things that should totally not work [TS]

  makes such a beautiful pie i guess but [TS]

  yeah I mean it just it works so well and [TS]

  it really shouldn't I mean and you can [TS]

  kind of understand like what I mean [TS]

  everything was done in six months I [TS]

  guess we're gonna stretch it i guess [TS]

  they finished in a couple of weeks [TS]

  before it was supposed to air and I [TS]

  imagine the animating the peanuts gang [TS]

  must have been just this totally [TS]

  difficult undertaking since I mean [TS]

  strips the characters don't follow any [TS]

  of the known laws of physics right their [TS]

  heads change shape when they turn and [TS]

  all sorts of weird stuff and somehow [TS]

  they managed to do it in this short [TS]

  period of time and make it all work [TS]

  which is crazy that there's a there's a [TS]

  great onstage there's a camera shift [TS]

  where you go from straight onto to side [TS]

  like you're looking out from the wings [TS]

  and it's really funny because it's like [TS]

  well we only really have these two [TS]

  angles of the characters being drawn so [TS]

  we're there either from the front or [TS]

  from the side and they do it and it it [TS]

  works [TS]

  yeah it's it's it's it works that they [TS]

  make it look like a moving version of a [TS]

  comic strip which is what it is so [TS]

  that's fine i also this this is actually [TS]

  a very strange Christmas special because [TS]

  it actually involves Christ I know that [TS]

  sounds bizarre but actually I was gonna [TS]

  wreck the thing to once i know there's [TS]

  like because it goes off and starts [TS]

  reading from the bible the bible reading [TS]

  right in the middle of this thing to say [TS]

  in those [TS]

  not my religion I like the fact that [TS]

  actually in a Christmas special where [TS]

  Charlie round starts the thing off [TS]

  unhappy with the commercialization that [TS]

  you get the payoff that Linus actually [TS]

  you know read from the Bible and like [TS]

  you know even not being a christian i [TS]

  preciate that in a show that they're [TS]

  actually you know this is going on it's [TS]

  cool and the reading is so simple and [TS]

  sweet [TS]

  yeah yeah yeahs Linus voice that it even [TS]

  as a non-believer it actually sort of [TS]

  moves me a little bit exact well i know [TS]

  that the nice thing is it doesn't it [TS]

  doesn't force any religion on you it [TS]

  doesn't specify that any of them are any [TS]

  particular religion [TS]

  it just says here's why this holiday is [TS]

  here and that's why we're here and it's [TS]

  about this baby and that's that and and [TS]

  it's okay you can take from that [TS]

  whatever you want and it's just it's i [TS]

  mean it it really answered like a tabula [TS]

  rasa it's wonderful that way and and [TS]

  then you know at the very end they all [TS]

  come together and sing hark the herald [TS]

  angels sing which again you don't often [TS]

  hear real Christmas carols in a [TS]

  Christmas special app and it's just I i [TS]

  tier of every time i hear Linus now [TS]

  likes place it's you know it's just that [TS]

  moment yeah yeah and I'm and from that [TS]

  point on I'm gonna I'm done you know how [TS]

  Fred Rogers there's the fred rogers [TS]

  quote about look for the helpers when [TS]

  bad things are happening me look for the [TS]

  helpers I look for Snoopy and in [TS]

  especially the special because he's just [TS]

  hilarious throughout the whole thing [TS]

  he's just you know he gets he makes [TS]

  everybody lighter you know he's playing [TS]

  on the ice and you get everybody two [TS]

  together on this like I don't know I [TS]

  skating conga line decorates his his his [TS]

  house he's you know dancing on the piano [TS]

  and and I think that that Snoopy might [TS]

  actually be one of those connecting [TS]

  threads that makes it all work because [TS]

  he's their agent of chaos and you didn't [TS]

  yeah I think wisely hear the rain in the [TS]

  snoopy shenanigans a little bit where [TS]

  you don't I mean as much as I love the [TS]

  great pumpkin that sequence with the Red [TS]

  Baron is interminable yeah yeah i want [TS]

  to point out that i think- we're just [TS]

  talking about it i know but i think he's [TS]

  actually underrated here and elsewhere i [TS]

  mean i think he gets the spotlight [TS]

  literally but he's the only one who [TS]

  respects Charlie right listens to us [TS]

  right [TS]

  he go [TS]

  it's always when we goes tree shopping [TS]

  with him right everybody else is just [TS]

  sending them off to get rid of him [TS]

  the Atlantis is not a jerky actually [TS]

  genuinely may feel sorry for me actually [TS]

  generally like to spend time with no he [TS]

  said he's the sidekick and analyst and [TS]

  and he's like charlie brown toyota yeah [TS]

  I understood for the first time ever [TS]

  having seen this probably hundreds of [TS]

  times as a reason I yelled come on [TS]

  earlier i realized that Lucy actually [TS]

  does Charlie Brown a genuine act of [TS]

  kindness [TS]

  yes ug actually asked questions i think [TS]

  completely on ironically to direct the [TS]

  Christmas play and then she offers to [TS]

  help him do it [TS]

  I mean it happens that it's gonna be a [TS]

  train wreck and we know that going in [TS]

  but it's sheet you really does do a nice [TS]

  selfless thing for Charlie Brown and [TS]

  they're walking away she sort of [TS]

  commiserates with him and and I realized [TS]

  that she Lucy's not all bad either [TS]

  no I was thinking that must have been [TS]

  really hard for her although this is the [TS]

  same world who later tries to punch a [TS]

  dog in the face right yeah but wouldn't [TS]

  you know [TS]

  no not Snoopy I commercialism right so [TS]

  here we get the you know it's so [TS]

  commercial this holiday so commercial [TS]

  and I guess this was the thing to talk [TS]

  about in the mid-sixties that's the name [TS]

  of this and and the grinch in a way I [TS]

  think it [TS]

  the theme is like christmas has become [TS]

  this thing that isn't it isn't what it [TS]

  used to mean man [TS]

  which is funny because now you know what [TS]

  is left but commercial hit something [TS]

  Christmastime commercialism yeah it's [TS]

  it's black friday weekend thanks getting [TS]

  yeah exactly so so I think it's on one [TS]

  level I think it is pressure on another [TS]

  level I think it's kind of quaint that [TS]

  this is the concern but that's what [TS]

  that's what leads to the power of minus [TS]

  giving his reading is that you know that [TS]

  the whole message here is that it's easy [TS]

  to get caught up in all of the things [TS]

  that are around christmas and the [TS]

  trappings of it without you know and [TS]

  then you lose perspective about what [TS]

  it's really about whether it is very [TS]

  specifically about this religious [TS]

  holiday or even more generally the [TS]

  meaning behind it rather than the all of [TS]

  the mechanisms of you know get a present [TS]

  and go over here and and do this and do [TS]

  that instead of the celebration and the [TS]

  love and the family and all those things [TS]

  I just I go back to Sally you know like [TS]

  we talked about earlier [TS]

  earlier and how I actually looked up on [TS]

  wikipedia i tried different to find how [TS]

  old she was in this I figured like three [TS]

  or four you know and just just like that [TS]

  she knows you know if you've ever [TS]

  written a christmas list or gift list [TS]

  for a little kid like they know exactly [TS]

  what we want [TS]

  how about tens and twenties maybe it's a [TS]

  minute [TS]

  I wanted to call it how great i think [TS]

  the the background art is in some of [TS]

  these specials particularly the [TS]

  watercolors that they use for the night [TS]

  skies the blandishments there they're [TS]

  beautiful i mean that the coloring is [TS]

  fantastic i love when they go out [TS]

  shopping for Christmas trees and if ya [TS]

  gettin into the sunset at the opening of [TS]

  the great pumpkin tooth they're just [TS]

  somehow perfectly evocative of the [TS]

  season that they're trying to represent [TS]

  one of the things I love about the music [TS]

  is how a lot of it wasn't meant as [TS]

  christmas music and it was bill melendez [TS]

  listening to some of the some of the [TS]

  girls just random stuff i mean he didn't [TS]

  even write a score specifically for this [TS]

  they picked some random stuff and the [TS]

  song we all know as christmas time is [TS]

  here he just went events would be right [TS]

  if i write some lyrics for this because [TS]

  it sounds kind of Christmassy and that's [TS]

  how that [TS]

  oh that's was born now it's gonna really [TS]

  yeah i think of the jazz piano stuff now [TS]

  is being kind of innately Christmassy [TS]

  which of course it isn't but but for HCL [TS]

  even Christmas yet [TS]

  yeah this is my favorite I i would say [TS]

  this is probably my favorite Christmas [TS]

  album that when when thanksgiving passes [TS]

  and the moratorium was lifted vince [TS]

  guaraldi comes out and he's being played [TS]

  by me [TS]

  pretty much yeah like constantly for [TS]

  this is your present wrapping music now [TS]

  and forever [TS]

  yep I could I could probably skip every [TS]

  other Christmas album and just leave [TS]

  this one [TS]

  yeah i think so i really like that every [TS]

  small movement that Pigpen makes even [TS]

  just turning his clouds billowing up [TS]

  around is it a lot of nice little [TS]

  details like that i would like to take a [TS]

  break now to tell you about another [TS]

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  go to Mac wilton.com let's move on to [TS]

  whoville in 1966 is how the grinch stole [TS]

  christmas how did he do then a dr. Seuss [TS]

  book come to life like like a like a as [TS]

  if in your imagination at what would a [TS]

  dr. Seuss book like it'd be like if it [TS]

  sprung to life and through the director [TS]

  Chuck Jones classic cartoon director [TS]

  Chuck Jones we get this and narrated by [TS]

  Boris Karloff and as as the narrator and [TS]

  of course the voice of the grinch [TS]

  evidently speaking through a heavily [TS]

  muffled Trump so i was i was going to [TS]

  say I wonder what the story is it sounds [TS]

  it sounds like he did this narration on [TS]

  the phone [TS]

  yes and I will not understand it isn't [TS]

  that when he speaks is the Grinch the [TS]

  trumpet is also filled with mud like [TS]

  it's already horrible and it becomes [TS]

  sometimes world and it's not i used to [TS]

  think it was it was in my mind I'm like [TS]

  well that must be the crappy sound of [TS]

  the thing but no there's plenty of [TS]

  dynamic range in all the other sounds in [TS]

  this it is adjust the voice of Boris [TS]

  Karloff and a very sometimes it's worse [TS]

  sometimes it's better I wonder if they [TS]

  only could get him for like one [TS]

  recording session that wasn't that good [TS]

  or there was a technical problem or or [TS]

  he did phone it in there using yet it [TS]

  was on its dying breath yeah exactly [TS]

  there's something terribly wrong with [TS]

  exits [TS]

  yeah it's just something is very bad [TS]

  it's it's a shame because it and it's [TS]

  it's great but yet he he does sound like [TS]

  he is calling on the phone to read you [TS]

  the story he was very very old at that [TS]

  point [TS]

  yeah well that that's why I wonder if he [TS]

  was unable to unable to do it or they [TS]

  had to bring some equipment somewhere [TS]

  and it was in in less than perfect [TS]

  circumstances to record it [TS]

  I mean it was like he passed away three [TS]

  years later she is not it's a the the [TS]

  singing is by what's getting thorough [TS]

  Ravens right there or great Souls I tony [TS]

  the tiger [TS]

  I can't do it that low no one cooler in [TS]

  warrant mr. Grinch also well featured in [TS]

  The Haunted Mansion [TS]

  oh yeah he's low voice singer in the [TS]

  graveyard scene and his head is one of [TS]

  the bus as somebody who has read many [TS]

  many dr. Seuss books to my children I i [TS]

  enjoy this story I enjoy the fact that [TS]

  there [TS]

  so many Seussian aspects to it the fact [TS]

  that that there at one point is a list [TS]

  of nonsensical things that goes on and [TS]

  on and on [TS]

  that is the most dr. seuss thing ever [TS]

  the list of various nonsensical things [TS]

  that are in that rhythm with those [TS]

  rhymes made-up words it's so it's so [TS]

  great and that the grinch I'll what I [TS]

  love about the plot of this is it is [TS]

  just he is just the inverse Santa Claus [TS]

  he sneaks into everybody at buddy's [TS]

  houses on Christmas Eve and takes all [TS]

  their stuff i think that's so great [TS]

  addressed to Santa Claus and once he's [TS]

  done with everything else he's eating [TS]

  the food is taking all the presence then [TS]

  he then he drags the Christmas tree over [TS]

  to the gym need to throw that thing up [TS]

  there and only then is he spotted by [TS]

  little Cindy Lou Who I so i love i love [TS]

  the the story of it and in the end the [TS]

  plot resolution is basically that the [TS]

  grinch realizes the Christmas is ok [TS]

  after all and then we just fine but what [TS]

  I like Charlie Brown did but what I like [TS]

  about about it is unlike unlike so many [TS]

  of the Christmas specials christmas is [TS]

  never in jeopardy because the grinch [TS]

  essentially does do his you know the his [TS]

  evil plan to ruin Christmas and it [TS]

  doesn't work because the whos in [TS]

  whoville are just super happy and they [TS]

  get what Christmas is all about about [TS]

  like Charlie Brown and so it's all fine [TS]

  and that's when his heart grows many [TS]

  sizes in the Grinch's defense the who's [TS]

  at least in televised form are utterly [TS]

  horrible with their infernal flu flu [TS]

  bezane they're awful tartan don't hate [TS]

  the following their hooves and banging [TS]

  their cart Incas yeah they are you [TS]

  geology that makes absolutely no sense i [TS]

  mean when you've got like it apparently [TS]

  a fully adult thing handing this giant [TS]

  strawberry to a two-year-old who dwarfs [TS]

  him [TS]

  they're just so loud and off-putting [TS]

  whose are not sympathetic characters we [TS]

  never had a problem with Christmas [TS]

  spatial relations space [TS]

  yeah this is Gail I'm just saying that I [TS]

  too would feel compelled to take their [TS]

  Popguns Pamplona Spain to Kazan drums [TS]

  checkerboards bizzle banks popcorn and [TS]

  plums it so I understand what the Grinch [TS]

  is coming from here I can think is I [TS]

  think you started right I don't know [TS]

  about agree with his methods but i think [TS]

  his attitude is correct [TS]

  interesting i also wonder why does cindy [TS]

  lou who sit at the head of the table are [TS]

  they ruled by her she's yeah she's like [TS]

  Anthony in that Twilight's I just [TS]

  to say is this anthony suggestion is [TS]

  mind control them all with your creepy [TS]

  antenna what's it's good that she's in [TS]

  charity it's real good [TS]

  mr. Grinch so this is actually my or was [TS]

  growing up my least favorite Christmas [TS]

  special [TS]

  oh and I didn't grow up my mom didn't [TS]

  read dr. Seuss to me and I had books but [TS]

  she didn't she didn't read them to me [TS]

  I I remember her refusing to read the [TS]

  spring but I didn't like like he kind of [TS]

  scared me the grinch kind of scared me [TS]

  and the fact that he had begun of that [TS]

  low weird voice through the tuba and [TS]

  that kind of freaked me out and and like [TS]

  I don't know it and even still I can [TS]

  watch it and it brings up of course this [TS]

  childhood feelings are like I don't this [TS]

  makes me uncomfortable and I really [TS]

  don't know why is an adult and but yeah [TS]

  maybe I'm i think i'm one of the very [TS]

  few people who actually doesn't really [TS]

  have an affinity for dr. Seuss [TS]

  oh you're breaking my heart your [TS]

  personal guard [TS]

  I'm sorry the creatures you know and [TS]

  he's screwed like character right he [TS]

  just doesn't want this and he's got his [TS]

  and he's got his dog sidekick who is [TS]

  adorable and funny x long-suffering all [TS]

  yeah yeah he's like her me [TS]

  Oh although we never removes anyone's [TS]

  teeth forcibly so it's true strong point [TS]

  yeah i'll agree with the lien that this [TS]

  was not my favorite christmas special [TS]

  when I was very young that you know I [TS]

  was all about Charlie Brown and the [TS]

  rankin/bass and stuff like that up but I [TS]

  still watched it because I was a dr. [TS]

  Seuss fan and it was later on the older [TS]

  I got and the more experience i had [TS]

  seeing Looney Tunes cartoons and they're [TS]

  different areas this is the visuals are [TS]

  so Chuck Jones berry and you know that's [TS]

  a problem I have with us yeah and i [TS]

  think it's it's just that i grew up i [TS]

  think seeing Chuck Jones animation every [TS]

  damn day but it's it's not a rare [TS]

  commodity like the peanuts specials that [TS]

  something is all the time to the grinch [TS]

  always friends just a little bit i don't [TS]

  know generic and kinda like a road [TS]

  runner cartoon a few points right yeah [TS]

  for me I love it I love that the context [TS]

  that I associate with Chuck Jones being [TS]

  in this totally different environment [TS]

  and yet you know some of the things come [TS]

  out the the evil grin that grows until [TS]

  it's impossible [TS]

  and the extra beat of the Santa Claus [TS]

  the tip of the cap falling after [TS]

  everything I was yelling you know all [TS]

  those things as as i get older and know [TS]

  more about art and cartooning and all [TS]

  those sort of things I appreciate that [TS]

  now and I like the greatest thing for me [TS]

  is the peak of Mount crumpit which is [TS]

  awesomely terrifying is this letter [TS]

  there that's a great sequence right then [TS]

  and the whole balancing and [TS]

  teeter-tottering yeah I like it better [TS]

  now than I am I did as a kid for some [TS]

  reason and I think the ring that stuff [TS]

  doesn't I don't like as much now because [TS]

  now i look at mega really come on and it [TS]

  but with a green chili I appreciate it [TS]

  more and I think maybe that is because [TS]

  of liking dr. Seuss and and and reading [TS]

  it to my kids and and appreciating the [TS]

  whole kind of weird package of chuck [TS]

  jones and and Boris Karloff with the [TS]

  narration and the music with that [TS]

  they're especially the repeating you're [TS]

  a mean one mr. Grinch throughout the [TS]

  right thing which is a great song but [TS]

  that's alright god lyrics [TS]

  yes but from garlic in your soul of [TS]

  arsenic sauce that's like you know the [TS]

  more you can hear it as an adult and you [TS]

  can pick out all the big words that you [TS]

  don't know as a kid and it's just [TS]

  funnier every time I just like your [TS]

  heart is full of unwashed socks your [TS]

  soul is full of gunk you have fantastic [TS]

  nauseous super nauseous [TS]

  you're freaking dirty jockey and you [TS]

  drive a crooked hall and again it's one [TS]

  of those that things that you know [TS]

  commercial sort of started squeezing [TS]

  things in and you've lost like a verse [TS]

  or two and a couple of the transition [TS]

  scenes where he still busy taking [TS]

  everything and up from everybody I was [TS]

  not crazy about the book when I was [TS]

  little but I loved the chuck jones [TS]

  animation and and again it's those [TS]

  little touches that he threw in there [TS]

  and i love the song the song is such a [TS]

  good song and it's it's you know [TS]

  ravenscraft to such a wonderful job with [TS]

  it you know and so even even when I was [TS]

  little I wasn't crazy about the show or [TS]

  the story but I watched it for the art [TS]

  and the music and and i'm happy i just [TS]

  found this out this is bugged me for [TS]

  decades in Snoopy come home he's also [TS]

  the voice of no zone [TS]

  Oh [TS]

  and you know it's it's one of those [TS]

  things that never occurred to me to look [TS]

  up but now that we're all talking about [TS]

  it's like oh let's see what else he did [TS]

  look up so is it as a song I mean [TS]

  there's not a lot to it what what is [TS]

  great about it is the words that are in [TS]

  it and the fact that repetition is it [TS]

  gets you know you you get to what's [TS]

  going to come was gonna say this time [TS]

  around and that's the just as a as a [TS]

  thing to pull you through the story it's [TS]

  it's so great i mean they're they're [TS]

  delightful words it yet it's not it's [TS]

  not like a song it's not fully [TS]

  constructed song but he he's kind of the [TS]

  the MVP of the song because he acts it's [TS]

  so thoroughly and he pulls you along I [TS]

  mean that you can be good just saying it [TS]

  you're a mean one mr. Grinch but it's [TS]

  like you're a mean one [TS]

  I mean you can peel his mouth wrapping [TS]

  around every word it'sit's the the [TS]

  religious aspect here is a little bit of [TS]

  a prodigal son is a mix up the prodigal [TS]

  son doesn't usually steal everything and [TS]

  then come back with that but is that [TS]

  it's like that that was in the apartment [TS]

  first people you know you be roast the [TS]

  category the fatted calf and you serve [TS]

  it out of the cabin a prodigal sons at [TS]

  the right side right and so Susan Ballou [TS]

  who is the added humour blue Matthew [TS]

  must be some roast beast you wrote the [TS]

  roast beast but I think there's a there [TS]

  is a biblical thing is like he commits a [TS]

  kind of wrong with no one is aware of it [TS]

  so it's actually odd more thing that he [TS]

  comes back and they accepted as if he's [TS]

  giving them a gift because they are so [TS]

  free from materialism and then he sat at [TS]

  the right hand of God you know the city [TS]

  like he's a this is the truth of Santa [TS]

  Clauses he steals all your stuff and [TS]

  just give it back to you and detests [TS]

  roast beef initially because he's on the [TS]

  side of the roast beast easily gifter [TS]

  vegan but he's turned to the good side [TS]

  then he's happy to carve the Beast [TS]

  himself [TS]

  what kind of animal does that come from [TS]

  it had no bones throughout the beating [TS]

  so yeah it's Abby's it's a place with [TS]

  roasted a boneless beasts of the whose [TS]

  they don't talk about it it's a flim [TS]

  hammer flugel it had a glowing no older [TS]

  they get [TS]

  and then they become the feasts car by [TS]

  slim school it's how the cycle of [TS]

  who-ville continues the ones who walk [TS]

  away from Whoville I got dark side [TS]

  so here's the here's the question of [TS]

  these three what one now who haven't [TS]

  really watched them is the one that you [TS]

  like the best [TS]

  Charlie Brown saying yeah Charlie Brown [TS]

  natural around Steve Charlie Brown [TS]

  without a doubt because in addition to [TS]

  still be entertaining as more than just [TS]

  nostalgia it also still works i think [TS]

  i'm an emotional level which which the [TS]

  others well Rudolph's simply doesn't and [TS]

  the grinch does to a lesser extent I [TS]

  think but Charlie Brown still works on [TS]

  me like gangbusters and it's still love [TS]

  it [TS]

  yep the kids of today still enjoyed my [TS]

  kids would this was all the selected [TS]

  when we were driving for thanksgiving or [TS]

  christmas to to various relatives houses [TS]

  long long distances the video that would [TS]

  get watch the most would be the Charlie [TS]

  Brown holiday videos the Christmas and [TS]

  and the great pumpkin and thanksgiving [TS]

  and they would just just endlessly in [TS]

  fact i think my daughter would just [TS]

  watch charlie brown thanksgiving all [TS]

  year round which is baffling to me but [TS]

  it was there was something about it just [TS]

  she found it very soothing the peanuts [TS]

  are soothing just in general and I was [TS]

  just thinking about it this morning that [TS]

  you know if you think about a lot of [TS]

  classic Christmas stories and even even [TS]

  things that have been adapted over and [TS]

  over again like you know what sitcom [TS]

  hasn't done a christmas carol and you [TS]

  know mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol [TS]

  everyone talks about who i used to watch [TS]

  that when I was yeah and it's wonderful [TS]

  life that and but but they're all about [TS]

  one person changing even it's a [TS]

  wonderful life is about George Bailey [TS]

  changing right and and discovering his [TS]

  own goodness and all that how important [TS]

  it is to be good and whatever and and [TS]

  the thing that's really interesting [TS]

  about Charlie Brown Christmas is the [TS]

  lesson there is everyone else change [TS]

  oh he never changes really he gets a [TS]

  little more confidence but its line is [TS]

  saying it's okay Charlie Brown you're [TS]

  right we've all lost sight of this [TS]

  you're the one who's got the ion on [TS]

  Christmas [TS]

  that's a really interesting thing and [TS]

  that's very inclusive to everybody in [TS]

  the audience right because we sort of [TS]

  you know we're all watching the [TS]

  commercials for target and setting up [TS]

  our house and doing all the things but [TS]

  we still kind of identified with Charlie [TS]

  Brown and then it's at the end where [TS]

  Linus calls everybody announces yeah [TS]

  that's all extra stuff here's here's the [TS]

  deal i do love the bit where he goes [TS]

  outside and he looks up at the stars and [TS]

  a rehears Linus's little sweet yeah and [TS]

  he just has that happy little smile on [TS]

  his face it's like I know what brief [TS]

  moment of of joy in Charlie Brown's [TS]

  awful awful life you know it's yours [TS]

  everybody still hates you and you're [TS]

  still bald and you have that one [TS]

  distressing piece of hair but you're not [TS]

  going to house so it's all right and [TS]

  there's a wonderful moment where you [TS]

  know that he takes the the ornament and [TS]

  puts it on the tree and it collapses and [TS]

  he goes right back to it's like oh I [TS]

  killed it and that's when everybody else [TS]

  has figured out what Linus was saying [TS]

  and they come together and they want to [TS]

  translate very sweet you know and so [TS]

  great yeah the Grinch has a song or [TS]

  everybody sings everybody's happy at the [TS]

  end of this one actually has a point [TS]

  so that's why I that's what Charlie [TS]

  Brown's Christmas is all about Charlie [TS]

  Brown Charlie better [TS]

  well I we were in shocking agreement [TS]

  here that's good because you know it [TS]

  wouldn't be the holidays if we didn't [TS]

  gather around the table and not argue [TS]

  Christmas miracle I know Jewish and [TS]

  vegetables while the Jewish cartoon [TS]

  specials where the Jewish girl turns but [TS]

  grats come on crazy nights Glenn come on [TS]

  grunts hey hebrew hammer a more general [TS]

  a non-denominational question why have [TS]

  they failed to come up with a more [TS]

  classics like this since roughly around [TS]

  90 years of the other reindeer and was [TS]

  trying to do this and it actually is [TS]

  kind of fun and parts but I don't think [TS]

  it started [TS]

  it's a little bit too much Jason but [TS]

  it's too long trying too hard to it's [TS]

  too commercial [TS]

  dammit yes it's about the commercialism [TS]

  I was wondering cuz i don't watch TV so [TS]

  so what are the kids watching nowadays [TS]

  are there new well they still they still [TS]

  rerun these occasionally there are new [TS]

  specials made and they were in the [TS]

  seventies there was a raft of new [TS]

  specials some of which are okay most of [TS]

  which are our kind of like diminishing [TS]

  returns like the rankin/bass I mean abs [TS]

  baby did they did the year without a [TS]

  santa clauses to the grande and then [TS]

  they did yes it's the new years one with [TS]

  the New Year's baby which is just just [TS]

  ridiculous [TS]

  and-and-and you believe it or not there [TS]

  is an arbor day Charlie Brown cartoon [TS]

  there is of course [TS]

  yeah so it kind of got it I got really [TS]

  flowers on his pitcher's mound is [TS]

  everything all however you know in a ray [TS]

  of a brightness of holiday specials in [TS]

  the seventies there is the star wars [TS]

  holiday special so you should check that [TS]

  one somewhere sorry told me not to watch [TS]

  the that's not denominator know it was a [TS]

  lot like watching I was totally alive [TS]

  its non-denominational its life day is [TS]

  just like the army so there's nothing [TS]

  more in it Glenn you what I said I want [TS]

  to really get into it with the the Paul [TS]

  Lynde halloween special just stuck with [TS]

  one or both of those make you feel [TS]

  better about being alive [TS]

  it's it's strange though that something [TS]

  nothing has really captured I think the [TS]

  zeitgeist like some of these old sixties [TS]

  ones yeah i mean the fact that these are [TS]

  all from the mid-sixties yeah you know [TS]

  and part of it is probably because [TS]

  everything is so splintered now I mean [TS]

  back when this aired it got you know [TS]

  like a 50 cher like half half of the tvs [TS]

  that were on were watching it yeah you [TS]

  had three networks and PBS and this was [TS]

  the only time you could see it at one [TS]

  time of year [TS]

  that's right even like the video 89 you [TS]

  think there's enough audience but the [TS]

  anime animation was out of style [TS]

  I think that's part of the innovation [TS]

  fellows style for a period of time until [TS]

  it got me introduced into a prime-time [TS]

  inserted developed into a new things I [TS]

  think there's a point which these were [TS]

  making this kind of you almost got there [TS]

  glad you mentioned night he made in 1989 [TS]

  didn't you [TS]

  of course in December 1989 the modern [TS]

  prime-time cartoons for adults era [TS]

  kicked off with the simpsons roasting on [TS]

  an open fire fire first episode of the [TS]

  simpsons which was itself a Christmas [TS]

  special which i should say actually does [TS]

  sort of work as a as a classic Christmas [TS]

  show [TS]

  yeah it is it's pretty good it's [TS]

  heartfelt some little helper [TS]

  oh that isn't as good as not forgotten [TS]

  about that was the time if only the [TS]

  simpsons were available to view in any [TS]

  format [TS]

  yeah whatever in the vault no no no all [TS]

  right David about this discipline during [TS]

  the the anticipation when there was a [TS]

  CBS christmas special coming on back in [TS]

  those days and there was an [TS]

  nothing all day ya do ya do two children [TS]

  together they do actually um horde these [TS]

  now where they're usually only shown on [TS]

  TV [TS]

  TV [TS]

  I once right you know you can watch them [TS]

  on video anytime tunes i have the DVD of [TS]

  Charlie Brown Christmas you don't [TS]

  remember my parents like saying oh we're [TS]

  all going to sit down and watch Charlie [TS]

  Brown tonight so and and now it's like [TS]

  well we got other stuff to do will put [TS]

  on a DVD later [TS]

  yeah that's right you had you had [TS]

  several generations and then of parents [TS]

  sitting there kids dancing i watch this [TS]

  when I was the way you're going to love [TS]

  this and they grew up with it and now I [TS]

  mean yeah my kids watch it and they [TS]

  watch it will they pull out the DVD and [TS]

  put it on themselves em that's the best [TS]

  part by the way where they take a breath [TS]

  in between everything and they actually [TS]

  animate all the kids taking a breath [TS]

  simultaneously pop and I and I just love [TS]

  the merry christmas charlie brown just [TS]

  that the rhythm of that it's it's one of [TS]

  those kind of your word phrases it's [TS]

  just stuck in my head I love his little [TS]

  hop when he sees the Christmas tree yes [TS]

  yes yeah i totally understand my current [TS]

  stuff is not is not classic but you're [TS]

  right there is that seventies eighties [TS]

  period that suspect yellow alright well [TS]

  this has been enjoyable and it was fun [TS]

  to watch these i did watch these with my [TS]

  entire family including my children in [TS]

  the last figure considering children's [TS]

  party it's good i do i do well you know [TS]

  some of the video special it's that time [TS]

  of year some of the videos are not that [TS]

  we watch for this podcast I don't touch [TS]

  with my family but these I got to and [TS]

  that was nice and I encourage everybody [TS]

  out there you can you can find him and [TS]

  you should go watch especially charlie [TS]

  brown how I hate him now i would like to [TS]

  thank my guests for talking about [TS]

  Christmas specials with me mr. Steve [TS]

  let's thank you welcome Jason every [TS]

  Christmas it's the same i was end up [TS]

  being on one of your podcasts Englishman [TS]

  thank you i gotta rock [TS]

  on holiday glad it's so incredibly [TS]

  disturbing Shannon sudderth thank you [TS]

  pleasure as always allene sims thank you [TS]

  very much thank you David jail or thank [TS]

  you and every thought it was such a bad [TS]

  little tree it's not bad at all really [TS]

  if he just needs a little love maybe it [TS]

  just needs a little love love that Linus [TS]

  thanks everybody [TS]

  see you next week hey Steve [TS]

  yeah what's up Jason went Wheels Battle [TS]

  it's a tweetable battle and if they [TS]

  battle in a bottle it's a tweetable [TS]

  bottle battle and if they battle in a [TS]

  bottle with some butter on a beetle it's [TS]

  a tweetable battle battle little metal [TS]

  puddle model but it's the bottles and [TS]

  oodles and boodles eating noodles [TS]

  it will be a bottle bottle poodle paddle [TS]

  Model Model Model mr. Fox sir his [TS]

  sticker shock sir [TS]

  and may God have mercy on your soul [TS]