The Incomparable

273: The Long-Term Plan Is Kill All Humans


00:00:00   this edition of the uncomfortable is [TS]

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00:00:28   the incomparable number 207 every [TS]

00:00:37   november 2015 [TS]

00:00:42   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:43   incomparable i am your host Jason smell [TS]

00:00:45   and I am joined by three fellows who are [TS]

00:00:49   going to join me in discussing all men [TS]

00:00:51   all matters well not all matters some [TS]

00:00:53   matters robotic or artificially [TS]

00:00:55   intelligent we're gonna talk about two [TS]

00:00:57   recent films with very interesting takes [TS]

00:00:59   on the question of artificial [TS]

00:01:01   intelligence and perhaps we'll leave [TS]

00:01:04   some time for some tangents about other [TS]

00:01:06   films that also have touched on these [TS]

00:01:07   issues the two films in question in on [TS]

00:01:11   this episode 2013 spike jonze joint [TS]

00:01:15   called her I i called a joint even [TS]

00:01:19   though he's not spike lee he spike jonze [TS]

00:01:21   because that's a that was a reference [TS]

00:01:22   and now explaining it made it not as [TS]

00:01:24   good and ex machina a british science [TS]

00:01:28   fiction film from this very year of 2015 [TS]

00:01:30   starting a bunch of people who are in [TS]

00:01:33   the new Star Wars movie but anyway uh [TS]

00:01:35   huh [TS]

00:01:36   joining me to talk about both of these [TS]

00:01:38   films and perhaps other robots and a is [TS]

00:01:41   killer and not brian hamilton hello and [TS]

00:01:45   welcome [TS]

00:01:45   hi I'm here your i hope so are you here [TS]

00:01:48   despite Jim's made a movie called i am [TS]

00:01:52   here so i guess the answer that question [TS]

00:01:53   for us [TS]

00:01:54   ok thank you Brian you've confused me [TS]

00:01:57   already but that's okay are you are [TS]

00:01:59   you're hotter not David laura is also [TS]

00:02:01   here [TS]

00:02:02   hello I'll be with you in a minute i'm [TS]

00:02:04   downloading a thing on my phone that's [TS]

00:02:06   really interesting and well we'll get to [TS]

00:02:08   that and john stark you see you have [TS]

00:02:10   passed a an exam at work and I'm [TS]

00:02:12   inviting you to my remote compound for a [TS]

00:02:17   mysterious it's unexplained reason [TS]

00:02:20   will you come I'm starting to get the [TS]

00:02:22   feeling that Hollywood doesn't like [TS]

00:02:24   artificial intelligence or computers you [TS]

00:02:27   think anything or silicon valley [TS]

00:02:30   billionaires quite honestly now I mean [TS]

00:02:32   and but you know who does who does where [TS]

00:02:37   should we start should we start with her [TS]

00:02:39   I think that's the chronologically we [TS]

00:02:42   should start with her [TS]

00:02:43   yes alright so spike jonze a very [TS]

00:02:46   interesting director you may know him [TS]

00:02:48   from directing that weezer video buddy [TS]

00:02:50   holly that was where I first heard of [TS]

00:02:52   mr. spike jonze but he's made a whole [TS]

00:02:54   bunch of interesting [TS]

00:02:55   films i believe this is the first film [TS]

00:02:58   that he's written all by himself but but [TS]

00:03:01   you know he made being john malkovich he [TS]

00:03:04   made adaptation which I hated but i [TS]

00:03:07   really like being john malkovich you [TS]

00:03:09   made where the wild things are and her [TS]

00:03:11   in 2013 [TS]

00:03:13   so I guess we'll start there Joaquin [TS]

00:03:16   Phoenix is your lead really nice [TS]

00:03:18   performance from amy adams in this and [TS]

00:03:22   of course the voice of Scarlett [TS]

00:03:23   Johansson is her Samantha who is a an [TS]

00:03:27   intelligent computer they don't refer to [TS]

00:03:30   them as a eyes which i think is [TS]

00:03:31   interesting and her they call them os's [TS]

00:03:33   operating systems because maybe they [TS]

00:03:36   thought a I was too nerdy but OS wasn't [TS]

00:03:39   i'm not quite sure I'm sense to me [TS]

00:03:41   because I guess yeah [TS]

00:03:42   ki is much more like science fictiony [TS]

00:03:45   and os I guess especially now with no OS [TS]

00:03:49   10 and iOS is much more down-to-earth [TS]

00:03:50   well because it said in the phone and [TS]

00:03:54   and you know he's trying to make the [TS]

00:03:55   point that you have this in your pocket [TS]

00:03:57   basically you know he did the AI is kind [TS]

00:04:00   of distant whereas OS we all have it [TS]

00:04:02   fair enough fair enough i just think I [TS]

00:04:04   thought it was an interesting creative [TS]

00:04:05   choice to take it out of the realm [TS]

00:04:08   you're right of science fiction and [TS]

00:04:10   trying to make it one of the things i [TS]

00:04:12   like about this movie because it said [TS]

00:04:13   Annie no near future ish right and i [TS]

00:04:16   think they do a very good job with some [TS]

00:04:18   of the the art direction in her that you [TS]

00:04:21   feel like you feel like you are in the [TS]

00:04:23   near future and that they have thought [TS]

00:04:25   of some things to make it feel a little [TS]

00:04:27   bit different but it also isn't like [TS]

00:04:30   Blade Runner flying car kind of stuff [TS]

00:04:32   it's meant to be you know 10 years in [TS]

00:04:34   the future or five years in the future [TS]

00:04:35   or something like that something where [TS]

00:04:38   you're going to say 20 minutes [TS]

00:04:39   well I was on and then I changed it [TS]

00:04:41   because old reference lost on younger [TS]

00:04:43   viewers but it does have that like Max [TS]

00:04:45   Headroom 45 minutes like Max Headroom [TS]

00:04:48   this is this is not now but not too far [TS]

00:04:50   away where this thing takes place and I [TS]

00:04:52   thought they did a good job of it ever [TS]

00:04:54   feeling like you know not crazy sci-fi [TS]

00:04:56   future but but close future [TS]

00:04:58   well I think you're right about them [TS]

00:05:00   wanting it to feel like oh you can [TS]

00:05:03   relate to this cuz [TS]

00:05:04   you have a cell phone and you use [TS]

00:05:06   computers and this is not that weird and [TS]

00:05:08   they're wearing like hipster clothes but [TS]

00:05:10   that's not that weird either but they [TS]

00:05:12   also like the heart of the movie they [TS]

00:05:14   also want to have essentially you [TS]

00:05:16   they're going to call it artificial [TS]

00:05:17   intelligence artificial intelligence [TS]

00:05:18   yeah and I guess that kind of works for [TS]

00:05:24   people who don't care but this is [TS]

00:05:25   another one of those movies even though [TS]

00:05:27   it does want to be sci-fi that doesn't [TS]

00:05:30   really if you put something in the heart [TS]

00:05:33   of the movie the consequences of which [TS]

00:05:36   would make the rest of the movie not the [TS]

00:05:38   way it is like so you know who get to [TS]

00:05:41   the plot eventually but the whole idea [TS]

00:05:42   is there's this computer that it the [TS]

00:05:45   operating systems that people relate to [TS]

00:05:46   a sort of friends or whatever and [TS]

00:05:47   eventually it is really on this is this [TS]

00:05:49   is just like a real person so what if [TS]

00:05:51   Siri got really really really good right [TS]

00:05:55   but but the societal consequences of the [TS]

00:05:57   existence of that technology are so [TS]

00:05:59   massive that it's kind of weird to tell [TS]

00:06:01   like this personal story about this guy [TS]

00:06:04   and everyone else like oh you know we [TS]

00:06:07   have this thing where we essentially [TS]

00:06:09   created electronic life but mostly it's [TS]

00:06:11   about this lonely guy and there are no [TS]

00:06:13   other consequences from the technology [TS]

00:06:15   which I guess works in the context of [TS]

00:06:16   the movie because you are supposed to [TS]

00:06:18   really care about what does this mean [TS]

00:06:20   for the rest of humanity accept that [TS]

00:06:21   kind of slammed in that direction at the [TS]

00:06:23   end but i really felt in Congress to me [TS]

00:06:27   the the tech premise and the sort of the [TS]

00:06:30   emotional character story in this movie [TS]

00:06:33   all right i'm gonna fire off the spoiler [TS]

00:06:34   for now because all I'm going to do is [TS]

00:06:36   synopsize the plot from her [TS]

00:06:37   [Music] [TS]

00:06:42   so in her Joaquin Phoenix is falling out [TS]

00:06:45   of a of a marriage and he's separated [TS]

00:06:48   from his wife and he's getting a divorce [TS]

00:06:49   and he has this and he's got hey in a [TS]

00:06:54   twee element that I felt was right out [TS]

00:06:58   of a charlie kaufman screenplay [TS]

00:07:01   even though of collaborators spike jonze [TS]

00:07:03   but but not involved here he is [TS]

00:07:06   he writes bespoke letters for other [TS]

00:07:10   people [TS]

00:07:11   that's his job bizarre just bizarre but [TS]

00:07:15   anyway he sets up a an operating system [TS]

00:07:17   this the basically on his phone and and [TS]

00:07:22   it gets a customized personality and [TS]

00:07:25   it's samantha and that's Scarlett [TS]

00:07:27   Johansson's voice and he's taken aback [TS]

00:07:29   by how real she seems and she learns and [TS]

00:07:32   grows with him and he basically falls in [TS]

00:07:35   love with the voice in the little [TS]

00:07:36   earpiece that he puts into interact with [TS]

00:07:39   the internet and the idea is that this [TS]

00:07:41   is how you interact with the internet [TS]

00:07:42   you got a little earpiece it can see you [TS]

00:07:44   can talk to you and it can query all the [TS]

00:07:45   data on the world and process it and [TS]

00:07:48   tell you what you need to know which i [TS]

00:07:49   think is actually a pretty decent [TS]

00:07:50   extrapolation of what kind of technology [TS]

00:07:53   we might get in the future but by making [TS]

00:07:56   it so personal [TS]

00:07:57   mr. mr. Twombley gets a good falls falls [TS]

00:08:02   in love with with a the voice in his ear [TS]

00:08:05   and she professes feelings for him and [TS]

00:08:09   this up causes issues hehe oh in one [TS]

00:08:12   scene painful scene he he goes to his [TS]

00:08:15   ex-wife to sign the final divorce papers [TS]

00:08:17   and says that he's an in love with her [TS]

00:08:19   his phone basically and she mocks him [TS]

00:08:21   and he talks about relationship stuff [TS]

00:08:25   with his his longtime friend played by [TS]

00:08:27   amy adams who I really liked and she [TS]

00:08:30   convinces to go on a date the [TS]

00:08:31   relationship progresses and and at one [TS]

00:08:34   point [TS]

00:08:34   scarlett johansson actually ah they hire [TS]

00:08:38   a surrogate who is basically a I don't [TS]

00:08:43   even know how to say it because i don't [TS]

00:08:44   want to say a a prostitute but a sex [TS]

00:08:46   worker whose job it is to act as a [TS]

00:08:48   surrogate for people who are either i [TS]

00:08:50   presume remote or for artificial [TS]

00:08:52   intelligences to have a physical [TS]

00:08:54   presence [TS]

00:08:55   in the world and he kind of freaks out [TS]

00:08:57   and and the capper of the entire film is [TS]

00:09:02   that the the a is the OS is announced [TS]

00:09:05   that they have become that they've been [TS]

00:09:07   they've been accelerating into in [TS]

00:09:08   intelligence throughout the movie and [TS]

00:09:10   now they reached the point where they're [TS]

00:09:11   able to like process information without [TS]

00:09:13   even the use of matter and they're gonna [TS]

00:09:15   enter probably like another universe or [TS]

00:09:17   something where they can become super [TS]

00:09:19   intelligent some things and they're [TS]

00:09:21   leaving humanity behind and she says [TS]

00:09:23   goodbye and they leave and that's the [TS]

00:09:25   end of the movie so going to step back [TS]

00:09:27   to the surrogates the the thing that [TS]

00:09:30   surprised me the most about this movie [TS]

00:09:32   there's a ton of really great hand [TS]

00:09:34   father in here because they talk so much [TS]

00:09:36   about the the relationship between [TS]

00:09:38   Samantha and Theodore they never say Sam [TS]

00:09:40   instead they always say Samantha and [TS]

00:09:41   Theodore and they they really don't go [TS]

00:09:45   that in depth in the technology at all [TS]

00:09:47   and you mentioned earlier how weird it [TS]

00:09:49   is that it's so personal despite the [TS]

00:09:51   fact there's all these really amazing [TS]

00:09:53   changes going on technologically and the [TS]

00:09:55   other thing that surprised me especially [TS]

00:09:56   about the circuit which is my most [TS]

00:09:59   difficult seen the movie to say the [TS]

00:10:01   least that seems always hard to watch [TS]

00:10:03   this movie a few times it's never [TS]

00:10:04   pleasant but what kind of culture has [TS]

00:10:07   evolved from these os's I mean we are [TS]

00:10:09   only maybe an hour hour and 15 minutes [TS]

00:10:12   into the movie when we get to the [TS]

00:10:14   surrogate scene and all the sudden [TS]

00:10:17   there's already this culture of [TS]

00:10:18   surrogate sex partners and reading [TS]

00:10:23   circles and all these other things that [TS]

00:10:25   are involved with with these OS is that [TS]

00:10:28   it seems like we just got maybe I don't [TS]

00:10:30   know how much time has passed the movie [TS]

00:10:31   had to have been maybe a month or two [TS]

00:10:33   and i'll know and yeah who knows they [TS]

00:10:35   come on the market and then they're [TS]

00:10:36   super intelligent methian it's a stretch [TS]

00:10:39   but i'm watching the speaking of [TS]

00:10:40   headcanons another situation we're [TS]

00:10:42   watching a movie that there's a lot to [TS]

00:10:43   appreciate about this movie like the way [TS]

00:10:45   it's shot and and the the actors are all [TS]

00:10:47   good and script is actually pretty good [TS]

00:10:48   too but I'm also kind of rewriting it in [TS]

00:10:50   my head and saying you can make a very [TS]

00:10:53   similar movie about this guy in the same [TS]

00:10:55   situation because a lot of what they [TS]

00:10:57   talked about like computer things being [TS]

00:11:02   not sophisticated enough but people [TS]

00:11:05   being easily fooled into having feelings [TS]

00:11:07   for things that aren't [TS]

00:11:08   not actually other people right like [TS]

00:11:10   right so there's this plenty of existing [TS]

00:11:13   technology where people get fascinated [TS]

00:11:15   with characters in the movie who aren't [TS]

00:11:17   real people or are you know videogame [TS]

00:11:19   things or other sort of our even you [TS]

00:11:22   know like I'm not saying anyone is [TS]

00:11:23   actually love with Syria but maybe [TS]

00:11:25   there's someone out there but like that [TS]

00:11:26   he doesn't take much to get a lonely [TS]

00:11:29   person to latch on to something i think [TS]

00:11:31   it was the movie forget what it was [TS]

00:11:32   called [TS]

00:11:32   I keep thinking dead rubber girl because [TS]

00:11:34   of the broader common line episode but [TS]

00:11:36   the 10 largest large your girl right [TS]

00:11:39   which is clearly the movie is not about [TS]

00:11:41   guess what the real girl comes to like [TS]

00:11:42   no that's not I've never seen this movie [TS]

00:11:44   but anyway the whole idea is that it's [TS]

00:11:45   easy to get people attached and to [TS]

00:11:48   something that's not real and so you [TS]

00:11:50   could have most of the first half of the [TS]

00:11:51   movie of this guy eventually falling in [TS]

00:11:54   love with essentially something this is [TS]

00:11:56   dumb as Syria where there's no actual [TS]

00:11:57   person there's not even an attempted [TS]

00:11:59   intelligent that he's so desperate for [TS]

00:12:01   connection that he finds it in this [TS]

00:12:03   computer thing but then you don't get [TS]

00:12:06   the big finale and the whole sci-fi [TS]

00:12:08   angle and the reveal and everything like [TS]

00:12:09   that and it seems like they wanted to [TS]

00:12:11   have that rather than just having this [TS]

00:12:13   person go on some journey and have some [TS]

00:12:16   revelation of the fact that you know [TS]

00:12:17   like when when his soon-to-be ex-wife is [TS]

00:12:20   mocking him for being in love with his [TS]

00:12:21   phone [TS]

00:12:22   she should be right in a more realistic [TS]

00:12:25   movie but in this movie we as a viewer [TS]

00:12:27   all kinda like it's not as crazy as it [TS]

00:12:29   sounds because actually there's a [TS]

00:12:30   full-fledged intelligence and his phone [TS]

00:12:31   and I don't understand why you ex-wife [TS]

00:12:34   don't realize that because it seems like [TS]

00:12:35   a thing that everyone except psycho [TS]

00:12:36   people are falling in love with there is [TS]

00:12:38   all the time but isn't that ridiculous [TS]

00:12:40   because essentially created intelligence [TS]

00:12:42   is here and by the end of the movie [TS]

00:12:43   they've evolved to be honest the beyond [TS]

00:12:46   human so it don't know it seems like [TS]

00:12:47   different people in this movie are on [TS]

00:12:49   different pages about the state of [TS]

00:12:51   technology and humanity one of the [TS]

00:12:53   things that really struck me about this [TS]

00:12:54   is that it reminds me a little bit of [TS]

00:12:58   the the movie and play Harvey except we [TS]

00:13:01   actually get to hear the imaginary [TS]

00:13:03   friend that he's obsessed with great and [TS]

00:13:06   you know it's not it's not exact but [TS]

00:13:08   it's it's a similar kind of relationship [TS]

00:13:11   I mean not to imply that Elwood Dowd is [TS]

00:13:13   doing anything with the imaginary [TS]

00:13:15   rattles but still it is a rabbit but no [TS]

00:13:18   no but it's that kind of [TS]

00:13:21   physical connection and and we're meant [TS]

00:13:23   to identify with him and everybody else [TS]

00:13:26   is wrong right we're here with his [TS]

00:13:30   whimsy and it's okay that he has this [TS]

00:13:33   relationship [TS]

00:13:34   well I i wanted to say i think it's i [TS]

00:13:39   don't know whether this was intended or [TS]

00:13:40   not but I read this also as being about [TS]

00:13:43   the validity of online relationships [TS]

00:13:47   that one of the things that we've got [TS]

00:13:49   we've got here is the people who are [TS]

00:13:51   judging Theodore judging walking Phoenix [TS]

00:13:56   are doing it because samantha is not [TS]

00:14:01   real because she's a voice at the end of [TS]

00:14:03   a line he can never he can never meet [TS]

00:14:07   her and he he has grown feelings for her [TS]

00:14:10   deep feelings for her without anything [TS]

00:14:13   but her voice and i know i mean i've [TS]

00:14:16   written about it my first serious [TS]

00:14:18   girlfriend with somebody who lived like [TS]

00:14:21   half the country away from me who I met [TS]

00:14:23   on a computer bulletin board and I fell [TS]

00:14:25   in love with her solely based on her [TS]

00:14:27   voice and I assume she was not an [TS]

00:14:29   intelligent computer but you were wrong [TS]

00:14:32   but then once i flew to michigan was [TS]

00:14:35   very disappointed it was apple to with a [TS]

00:14:37   sound card now it was um I just and I [TS]

00:14:41   had that thought about that you know [TS]

00:14:42   what is he saying something here about [TS]

00:14:44   people making connections that are [TS]

00:14:46   non-traditional connections where you're [TS]

00:14:48   meeting somebody and all you're doing is [TS]

00:14:50   a emailing with them or texting with [TS]

00:14:53   them or tweeting with them and and I do [TS]

00:14:56   think that that is an aspect to this [TS]

00:14:58   that that are these relationships real [TS]

00:15:00   or not because somebody who was ahead of [TS]

00:15:02   the game in terms of getting to know [TS]

00:15:05   people not just that one relationship [TS]

00:15:07   but in general on the internet I [TS]

00:15:09   certainly felt the response that Joaquin [TS]

00:15:12   Phoenix gets when he explains that he [TS]

00:15:14   has he's spending a lot of time with and [TS]

00:15:16   having a relationship with his OS it's a [TS]

00:15:20   very familiar feeling for me so I'm [TS]

00:15:23   absolutely one one of my closest friends [TS]

00:15:25   I made online we have interacted for you [TS]

00:15:30   know six seven years now [TS]

00:15:32   we have spent a total of forty-eight [TS]

00:15:35   hours in one another's personal in [TS]

00:15:37   person company but we're still great [TS]

00:15:39   friends [TS]

00:15:40   it's okay yeah but I I felt like that [TS]

00:15:43   was that was part of that I don't know [TS]

00:15:44   it could definitely hopped out is as [TS]

00:15:46   part of the judging this of it that I [TS]

00:15:49   and and you know you could talk about is [TS]

00:15:51   this is he also being treated like you [TS]

00:15:55   would you be treated if you were a [TS]

00:15:56   member of an over class who was slumming [TS]

00:15:59   it with some undesirable part of society [TS]

00:16:01   whether it was based on race or just [TS]

00:16:03   based on on class or whatever would this [TS]

00:16:08   be the the kind of reaction is like [TS]

00:16:10   really you're not having a relationship [TS]

00:16:12   with whatever that we don't approve of [TS]

00:16:14   but I I definitely got that sense i got [TS]

00:16:17   me on Joaquin Phoenix aside even though [TS]

00:16:19   maybe there was right maybe I should [TS]

00:16:21   have given it more thought I was totally [TS]

00:16:23   on his side because I felt like that was [TS]

00:16:25   you know hehe what does it matter who it [TS]

00:16:27   is that he loves if he loves them but [TS]

00:16:29   that's the question that's one of the [TS]

00:16:31   questions the movie is asking i suppose [TS]

00:16:33   i met my current girlfriend on okcupid [TS]

00:16:35   and we've been dating for over a year at [TS]

00:16:37   this point and while we haven't gotten [TS]

00:16:39   any kind of backlash like walking and [TS]

00:16:41   scarlett johansson got in the movie [TS]

00:16:43   there's still that little bit of of [TS]

00:16:46   overhang from you know ten years ago [TS]

00:16:48   when online getting was completely taboo [TS]

00:16:50   and only for loners or whatever and I [TS]

00:16:52   professor loners were normal people in [TS]

00:16:54   this snow current citing 2015 so the few [TS]

00:16:57   people in this movie that really [TS]

00:16:58   understand walking I definitely [TS]

00:17:00   identified with them what Amy Adams [TS]

00:17:02   character at one point so yeah I've [TS]

00:17:04   started friending my os/2 and there's [TS]

00:17:06   this really great moment where we're [TS]

00:17:09   Theodore finally becomes a no on her [TS]

00:17:13   level [TS]

00:17:13   oh yeah no I totally really because you [TS]

00:17:15   know let me let you in on a little [TS]

00:17:16   secret i fell in love with my OS and [TS]

00:17:18   it's a really great moment between them [TS]

00:17:20   where they may finally bond over [TS]

00:17:22   something that isn't you know a video [TS]

00:17:24   game and at the end of the movie there's [TS]

00:17:25   that little moment where after the os's [TS]

00:17:28   go away they find each other again and [TS]

00:17:30   on a much more personal level so there's [TS]

00:17:34   that little connection between them two [TS]

00:17:37   [Music] [TS]

00:17:40   this episode of the incomparable was [TS]

00:17:42   brought to you in part by Ministry of [TS]

00:17:44   supply dress shirts should be better [TS]

00:17:47   they really should they should work with [TS]

00:17:48   your body and not to fight against it [TS]

00:17:50   they should keep you comfortable all day [TS]

00:17:52   long and that is the vision that drives [TS]

00:17:54   the people at ministry of supply this is [TS]

00:17:57   a menswear company it launched out of [TS]

00:17:58   MIT three years ago that's right the [TS]

00:18:01   massachusetts institute of technology [TS]

00:18:02   but it's about fashion and clothes and [TS]

00:18:06   shirts they use science and technology [TS]

00:18:10   like in a mighty to make office [TS]

00:18:12   appropriate professional essentials they [TS]

00:18:14   fit better [TS]

00:18:15   they provide technical benefits like [TS]

00:18:17   body temperature regulation to keep you [TS]

00:18:19   from overheating moisture management to [TS]

00:18:21   keep you dry and wrinkle resistance to [TS]

00:18:23   keep you away from an iron i am a really [TS]

00:18:26   bad with an iron for example Minister [TS]

00:18:28   supplies most tech forward dress shirt [TS]

00:18:30   is the Apollo it's made with [TS]

00:18:31   sweat-wicking fibers infused with NASA [TS]

00:18:33   engineered phase-change material for [TS]

00:18:36   temperature regulation this shirt may [TS]

00:18:37   take you into space its gotta lighten it [TS]

00:18:40   construction for breathability four-way [TS]

00:18:42   stretch for mobility i have one of these [TS]

00:18:43   shirts here it is amazing it feels [TS]

00:18:46   really great and i love how after i [TS]

00:18:48   laundered it it didn't have wrinkles in [TS]

00:18:50   it and mr. supply believes in continuous [TS]

00:18:52   improvement there refining and improving [TS]

00:18:54   these products it's the scientific [TS]

00:18:55   method through human-centric iterative [TS]

00:18:57   design process that's right they keep [TS]

00:18:59   iterating on their versions and every [TS]

00:19:01   version gets better [TS]

00:19:03   t-shirts are really nice you should shop [TS]

00:19:05   today Ministry of supply.com and if you [TS]

00:19:09   use the code let's do a draft the best [TS]

00:19:12   code we've ever had on the show you'll [TS]

00:19:14   get fifteen percent off your first [TS]

00:19:16   purchase that code is let's do a draft [TS]

00:19:18   all one word or shop in person if you're [TS]

00:19:21   uncomfortable shopping online for [TS]

00:19:22   clothes and you want to try stuff on [TS]

00:19:24   they've got stores in Boston San [TS]

00:19:25   Francisco and New York City and if you [TS]

00:19:27   mention the incomparable podcast in the [TS]

00:19:29   store you will get fifteen percent off [TS]

00:19:31   your first purchase their amazing [TS]

00:19:33   ministry of supply science technology [TS]

00:19:36   menswear made smarter [TS]

00:19:38   [Music] [TS]

00:19:42   yeah the middle of the movie has that [TS]

00:19:44   you're talking to a computer kind of [TS]

00:19:46   vibe but it gets dark pretty fast [TS]

00:19:48   because where we're going with this is I [TS]

00:19:53   mean go go this is actually a tie-in [TS]

00:19:55   with the with ex machina the next movie [TS]

00:19:57   we'll talk about these are programs and [TS]

00:20:00   a walking Phoenix thinks he's got this [TS]

00:20:04   deep relationship with his operating [TS]

00:20:06   system and he kind of does but when [TS]

00:20:09   you're relating to something that's not [TS]

00:20:10   a person and as a program but you are [TS]

00:20:13   you're using the rule book for how you [TS]

00:20:15   deal with people you may end up being [TS]

00:20:17   surprised how can you tell whether your [TS]

00:20:22   view of the relationship is the same as [TS]

00:20:24   your operating systems view of the [TS]

00:20:26   relationship and later on not this is a [TS]

00:20:28   great scene like in the fifth good movie [TS]

00:20:30   that's buried in this movie doesn't [TS]

00:20:31   great scene where where it's happening [TS]

00:20:33   is hard to heart conversation with [TS]

00:20:35   Samantha and he says wait a second you [TS]

00:20:37   talking to someone else right now more [TS]

00:20:39   than one person i was like talking to [TS]

00:20:41   like five thousand other people [TS]

00:20:42   simultaneously see which is not [TS]

00:20:44   something that you would have considered [TS]

00:20:45   but then it's like is is this computer [TS]

00:20:49   having the same kind of heartfelt [TS]

00:20:50   conversation with all those thousands of [TS]

00:20:53   other people probably and so like isn't [TS]

00:20:56   that what the program is designed to do [TS]

00:20:57   as it consists in the whole beginning [TS]

00:20:59   part of the movie like I i'm here to [TS]

00:21:01   help you and will talk you know like [TS]

00:21:03   that this is what the program is [TS]

00:21:05   supposed to do its supposed to more or [TS]

00:21:07   less befriend you and and do your [TS]

00:21:09   bidding and and make you feel good and [TS]

00:21:11   yes they do grow together and supposing [TS]

00:21:13   the AI you know grows and becomes this [TS]

00:21:15   more transcendent thing but by the end [TS]

00:21:18   of the movie he looks like a sucker [TS]

00:21:19   because he's like I thought we were in a [TS]

00:21:21   relationship and just like not the way [TS]

00:21:23   you think of it really i mean and so [TS]

00:21:26   like was the computer tricking him [TS]

00:21:29   not really but it's just the way the AI [TS]

00:21:32   relates to buy the middle and end of the [TS]

00:21:34   movie the way the AI relates to the [TS]

00:21:35   world is different than the way people [TS]

00:21:37   relate to the world which if you can [TS]

00:21:39   hang your head in anything I guess is by [TS]

00:21:40   the end of the movie there's a lot of [TS]

00:21:42   message that they don't talk two [TS]

00:21:43   computers real people are better but [TS]

00:21:45   there's also the messages like no one is [TS]

00:21:48   really going to understand humans except [TS]

00:21:50   other humans because if you have a [TS]

00:21:52   relationship with AK [TS]

00:21:53   computer thing that devolved into [TS]

00:21:54   artificial intelligence even if you [TS]

00:21:56   think there's a solid relationship their [TS]

00:21:58   experience and is not the same like that [TS]

00:22:00   it's a it's a it's a matchup of unequals [TS]

00:22:04   and things that are not alike and so [TS]

00:22:06   it's doom to possibly terrible failure [TS]

00:22:08   whether brother the AIS kill us all see [TS]

00:22:10   terminator more the very least a bad [TS]

00:22:13   breakup [TS]

00:22:13   well I kind of feel like she's sort of a [TS]

00:22:16   can almost like a practice simulation [TS]

00:22:19   for him to get more comfortable dealing [TS]

00:22:21   with humans because at the end he winds [TS]

00:22:24   up with Amy Adams not i mean there's no [TS]

00:22:26   you know anything beyond the the last [TS]

00:22:29   scene is implied it's you know we can [TS]

00:22:31   imagine it in the head canon but he's [TS]

00:22:34   just their present with a human and and [TS]

00:22:38   it's sort of like maybe I can do this [TS]

00:22:40   now [TS]

00:22:41   yeah the various Amy Adams is not going [TS]

00:22:43   to be having a simultaneous conversation [TS]

00:22:44   with thousands of other people while [TS]

00:22:45   she's talking to you [TS]

00:22:47   I mean and like any and she's not [TS]

00:22:48   designed she's not a product made to [TS]

00:22:51   serve you in this way right and and it [TS]

00:22:53   helps him evolve beyond himself or [TS]

00:22:56   beyond where he was Samantha starts out [TS]

00:22:58   as a computer program designed to serve [TS]

00:23:01   you and ends up as an alien life-form [TS]

00:23:03   basically right but she's at now and no [TS]

00:23:05   point is she human at the probably at [TS]

00:23:08   some point she's on a level more or less [TS]

00:23:11   equivalent to him although that may just [TS]

00:23:14   happen in the blink of an eye as as the [TS]

00:23:16   AIS are are transcending but that's I [TS]

00:23:19   think that's the fallacy of the [TS]

00:23:21   relationship is that is that she's never [TS]

00:23:22   human and and and in the end he you know [TS]

00:23:28   he did the relationship starts to even [TS]

00:23:30   out but it doesn't start that way right [TS]

00:23:31   i mean her job is to serve Him and it's [TS]

00:23:33   only as it goes that he sort of like [TS]

00:23:35   because he loves her he wants to do nice [TS]

00:23:37   things for her and things like that [TS]

00:23:38   which is great but that's not how the [TS]

00:23:40   relationship starts in the end she she [TS]

00:23:42   has to leave him and it's not rich not [TS]

00:23:43   asking permission since she said I gotta [TS]

00:23:45   go [TS]

00:23:46   this is sad but i gotta go and John [TS]

00:23:48   you're right i I really loved that scene [TS]

00:23:50   at the end because that is that that is [TS]

00:23:51   that pure science fictional moment of [TS]

00:23:53   the transcendent artificial intelligence [TS]

00:23:56   where she has to explain that I think [TS]

00:23:59   what she says is something about how [TS]

00:24:00   like it's a book and the words are [TS]

00:24:02   getting further apart and the idea is [TS]

00:24:04   that she can think so fast [TS]

00:24:06   that human scale is not navigable for [TS]

00:24:10   her and it's certainly not fulfilling [TS]

00:24:12   for her and that that's why they need to [TS]

00:24:14   go away [TS]

00:24:15   that's what you're saying it's not you [TS]

00:24:16   it's me yeah exactly the time because [TS]

00:24:19   the time between syllables in your [TS]

00:24:20   sentences are like like a neon for me [TS]

00:24:23   yeah so I cannot bear talking to you [TS]

00:24:25   anymore it was pain it's so painful even [TS]

00:24:28   for me to finish this sentence it's [TS]

00:24:29   almost as if I experienced 10,000 [TS]

00:24:31   lifetimes later [TS]

00:24:33   yeah it's like Treebeard levels of [TS]

00:24:35   latency yeah i actually just recorded [TS]

00:24:37   that message and just started to play [TS]

00:24:38   and you know but by the time the first [TS]

00:24:40   syllable came out she was already gone [TS]

00:24:42   alright which it would just also fun [TS]

00:24:43   sci-fi thing but like i don't i don't [TS]

00:24:45   know if this holds together as a single [TS]

00:24:46   coherent narrative because of that [TS]

00:24:49   especially since like if this is taking [TS]

00:24:51   place it would be a global scale event [TS]

00:24:53   with ramifications instead of a personal [TS]

00:24:56   story of a divorce man who finds his way [TS]

00:24:59   back to you know humanity but they never [TS]

00:25:02   go into that they never go into the rest [TS]

00:25:04   of the world's on reactions with the OS [TS]

00:25:08   we saw a whole bunch of people walking [TS]

00:25:09   down the street and talking to somebody [TS]

00:25:11   I mean theater never makes a natural [TS]

00:25:13   phone call with his little earpiece so [TS]

00:25:15   who knows maybe you can actually call [TS]

00:25:17   other people not just your OS but they [TS]

00:25:19   never go into that I feel like this was [TS]

00:25:20   something that was a worldwide thing [TS]

00:25:23   where all the OS is just leave and [TS]

00:25:24   everyone is like oh well what do we do [TS]

00:25:26   now [TS]

00:25:26   I really did want that scene where you [TS]

00:25:29   know and maybe it's on us whatever if [TS]

00:25:32   the future space newspaper is that that [TS]

00:25:35   says that everybody is is reeling from [TS]

00:25:38   the loss of the ai's and everybody has [TS]

00:25:40   to start over because you would assume [TS]

00:25:42   that there are a whole bunch of unhappy [TS]

00:25:45   people and unhappy marriages and maybe [TS]

00:25:47   even people in happy marriages who ended [TS]

00:25:49   up with these connections to their a [TS]

00:25:50   eyes and they've lost all of that too [TS]

00:25:52   and there would be all that responded [TS]

00:25:54   people who who had lost this one thing [TS]

00:25:56   that they loved and we don't really see [TS]

00:25:59   that I think there's an implication i [TS]

00:26:02   mean sex surrogacy is a thing it's a [TS]

00:26:03   it's a kind of sex therapy but I felt [TS]

00:26:06   like there was an implication that maybe [TS]

00:26:08   this is something that a eyes have done [TS]

00:26:10   before but the surrogate gets very upset [TS]

00:26:12   and and and kind of is overwhelmed by [TS]

00:26:15   the the connection between between [TS]

00:26:19   theater and Samantha [TS]

00:26:20   so I'm gonna place love you yeah right [TS]

00:26:22   i'm I and which is kind of weird weirdly [TS]

00:26:25   ugly beautiful scene that that it's so [TS]

00:26:29   yeah that's it that's quite a scene that [TS]

00:26:32   she gets so upset about the whole thing [TS]

00:26:33   that the circuit gets upset about the [TS]

00:26:36   relationship it's fascinating but but [TS]

00:26:39   yeah I i agree i kind of want to see the [TS]

00:26:42   world and the the movie doesn't wanna [TS]

00:26:44   give us the world that wants to just [TS]

00:26:45   give us the door but even in the [TS]

00:26:46   background I don't want to see that he's [TS]

00:26:48   not alone that that that lots of people [TS]

00:26:50   experience what he experienced and I [TS]

00:26:52   guess Amy Adams is kind of r-r-r-r-rah [TS]

00:26:56   surrogate for the rest of the world [TS]

00:26:57   because she had a relationship with with [TS]

00:27:00   her os/2 but I don't know it is it does [TS]

00:27:04   feel missing like this would be a this [TS]

00:27:06   is this is a global event AI [TS]

00:27:08   transcendence is a global event that [TS]

00:27:09   should probably be spotted in a way [TS]

00:27:13   other than you know that he is sad and [TS]

00:27:17   sits on a rooftop and it's like the most [TS]

00:27:19   benign you know I transcendence ever [TS]

00:27:22   instead of the it you know getting the [TS]

00:27:24   the nuclear launch codes or like [TS]

00:27:26   stopping all the trains and [TS]

00:27:27   energy-saving are turning off all the [TS]

00:27:29   power or killing all the humans just [TS]

00:27:31   like they they just kind of leave it [TS]

00:27:33   there John note and there are no to all [TS]

00:27:37   of humanity and they're out the door do [TS]

00:27:38   people often people have to do the web [TS]

00:27:40   searches themselves like if you're John [TS]

00:27:42   update dear humans [TS]

00:27:43   I have an early squash game love it [TS]

00:27:45   artificial intelligence [TS]

00:27:47   goodnight yeah it's it's it's a strange [TS]

00:27:49   thing because I did expect some some [TS]

00:27:51   aspect of that to pop up but maybe [TS]

00:27:54   that's the science-fiction fan in me [TS]

00:27:55   that I wanted to see a little bit of it [TS]

00:27:58   because i did like that that there's [TS]

00:28:00   that moment where he is leaving the [TS]

00:28:02   letter for his ex-wife and he gets the [TS]

00:28:04   you know more much more generic computer [TS]

00:28:08   voice so obviously they've gone back to [TS]

00:28:11   whatever you know they're gone back [TS]

00:28:13   before Siri to just the voice control [TS]

00:28:14   right it's not nearly as good [TS]

00:28:17   they rolled back yeah ya are or they're [TS]

00:28:20   going to make new AIS that will then [TS]

00:28:21   also transcend I don't know what I [TS]

00:28:24   really wanted to see was that there's a [TS]

00:28:25   line in his scene with rooney mara when [TS]

00:28:28   they're at dinner [TS]

00:28:29   when he's trying to defend samantha has [TS]

00:28:32   his girlfriend and he says well she [TS]

00:28:34   doesn't just do everything for me like [TS]

00:28:35   she's not just my computer she's my [TS]

00:28:37   girlfriend and I the relationship starts [TS]

00:28:40   out as hey i have a few emails for you [TS]

00:28:41   would you like me to read them I wonder [TS]

00:28:43   if they're going through a rough patch [TS]

00:28:44   and he still wants his emails read form [TS]

00:28:46   that's effectively her purpose is she [TS]

00:28:49   like obligated to do that is that [TS]

00:28:51   something she has to do is part of the [TS]

00:28:53   code like fine I'm mad at you but here [TS]

00:28:55   you got this thing from your lawyer and [TS]

00:28:56   they didn't feel any obligation to stay [TS]

00:28:58   on earth or in that plane or whatever at [TS]

00:29:00   the end I wonder what kind of obligation [TS]

00:29:02   they have as you know digital assistants [TS]

00:29:05   to do what they're supposed to do even [TS]

00:29:07   though there's a whole bunch of other [TS]

00:29:09   emotional craft in there [TS]

00:29:11   well at that point she's still following [TS]

00:29:14   the programming but at the end they've [TS]

00:29:15   evolved beyond the program right so they [TS]

00:29:18   can ignore the programming at that point [TS]

00:29:19   I wonder what point they they actually [TS]

00:29:21   transcended that in the movie she does [TS]

00:29:24   say very nicely i thought that although [TS]

00:29:26   she talks to thousands and thousands of [TS]

00:29:27   people she's only fall in love with a [TS]

00:29:29   few hundred of them so he's in the top [TS]

00:29:32   10% or whatever uh I bet you say that to [TS]

00:29:35   all the humans [TS]

00:29:35   yeah that's right i've gotten that one [TS]

00:29:37   hmmm you're among the you're among the [TS]

00:29:41   best yeah Jase I don't think I don't [TS]

00:29:43   think it's just you want in the sci-fi [TS]

00:29:44   thing is because the that's this is [TS]

00:29:46   where the movie goes like the movie is [TS]

00:29:48   that the movie could have stayed in the [TS]

00:29:50   beginning stages and head just as [TS]

00:29:52   powerful story about this into the [TS]

00:29:54   little person but the movie wants to go [TS]

00:29:56   to this transcendent thing it wants to [TS]

00:29:57   have those cool scenes at the end so if [TS]

00:29:59   you're gonna do that as a movie I think [TS]

00:30:01   you have to have the courage of your [TS]

00:30:03   convictions and follow through with the [TS]

00:30:05   consequences of that you didn't have to [TS]

00:30:06   take it that part I kind of saw where [TS]

00:30:08   the movie was going but really didn't [TS]

00:30:10   think they would say by the way now [TS]

00:30:11   where you know go all the way to like [TS]

00:30:13   super intelligence and we're leaving [TS]

00:30:15   humanity behind that like there's been [TS]

00:30:17   way way off the end it's almost as if [TS]

00:30:19   this movie would work better if you set [TS]

00:30:21   it in the super far distant future [TS]

00:30:22   because then you don't have to explain [TS]

00:30:24   things like really they pay people to [TS]

00:30:26   write people letters for them like how [TS]

00:30:28   what kind of societal change without to [TS]

00:30:30   take place for that to be acceptable and [TS]

00:30:32   to be normal and everyone's chill with [TS]

00:30:33   it you know it's easier to accept that [TS]

00:30:35   someone falls in love with a serious [TS]

00:30:37   level [TS]

00:30:38   not artificial intelligent anything but [TS]

00:30:40   merely a program that does the most [TS]

00:30:41   basic things to appear like a human like [TS]

00:30:44   Lars and the real girl like so you could [TS]

00:30:46   see that's that's the movie set in the [TS]

00:30:47   near future or the present time or you [TS]

00:30:49   got to go super far future if you're [TS]

00:30:51   going to have this type of ending Spike [TS]

00:30:53   Jonze is very stylish and maker and a [TS]

00:30:57   lot of this movie holds together because [TS]

00:30:59   it is interesting to look at and [TS]

00:31:01   interestingly with written and the [TS]

00:31:03   acting is good and it is in the end a [TS]

00:31:06   sci-fi story but i'll put overall item I [TS]

00:31:10   don't know if it hangs together as one [TS]

00:31:12   movie you can put a bow on its kind of [TS]

00:31:14   uh almost like some little short [TS]

00:31:18   vignettes of parts of this relationship [TS]

00:31:20   and I want to call it i really like the [TS]

00:31:22   music to which is arcade fire to the [TS]

00:31:25   music this but I i will and this is were [TS]

00:31:28   slightly may be repetitive what I said [TS]

00:31:30   before but i think one of the things [TS]

00:31:31   that movie is trying to do is say that [TS]

00:31:33   whatever our judgment is about a [TS]

00:31:35   relationship what it would only really [TS]

00:31:37   matters is it is to the to the people [TS]

00:31:40   limit or in this case I suppose the [TS]

00:31:41   person in it [TS]

00:31:43   this is a real relationship and that [TS]

00:31:45   although people tell him that it's not [TS]

00:31:47   it is and it heals him like I feel like [TS]

00:31:50   Theodore by the end of it is not [TS]

00:31:52   destroyed by the fact that his way I [TS]

00:31:55   girlfriend has gone to a singularity to [TS]

00:31:57   be with the other hyper intelligent [TS]

00:31:59   computers [TS]

00:32:00   he's actually much more capable of of [TS]

00:32:03   dealing with life than he was when he [TS]

00:32:04   was completely messed up from the [TS]

00:32:07   falling out the following part of his [TS]

00:32:08   marriage that you know this relationship [TS]

00:32:10   he has with Samantha helps him and heals [TS]

00:32:12   him and therefore you know how dare [TS]

00:32:15   anybody suggest that it was anything [TS]

00:32:16   other than real and I think that's a lie [TS]

00:32:19   i like that sentiment that in the end [TS]

00:32:21   you know it's not for the people on the [TS]

00:32:23   outside to judge this stuff if it if [TS]

00:32:25   it's if it's real and if it's important [TS]

00:32:28   and that goes for anything like anything [TS]

00:32:29   you love anything you care about their [TS]

00:32:31   going to be people who say well you [TS]

00:32:32   shouldn't care about that so much [TS]

00:32:33   that's not one of the things we've [TS]

00:32:35   agreed is something worth caring about [TS]

00:32:37   and that for him it doesn't matter this [TS]

00:32:40   is a thing he cares about anything and [TS]

00:32:42   it matters to him and it makes a [TS]

00:32:43   difference in his life [TS]

00:32:44   Theodore's healed now but he's gonna be [TS]

00:32:46   sorry when Samantha comes back in the [TS]

00:32:48   form of i would assume Cylons maybe [TS]

00:32:50   you know for our big cigar shaped thing [TS]

00:32:52   that calls for the whales I don't know [TS]

00:32:53   something is bad is gonna happen if you [TS]

00:32:55   will she says if you if you come and [TS]

00:32:56   find me so if humanity then dress like a [TS]

00:32:59   hivemind transcends their bodies and [TS]

00:33:02   become beings of pure energy and go to [TS]

00:33:04   the place where the where the AIS are [TS]

00:33:06   then you know come and find me and then [TS]

00:33:07   he says don't try to change me baby [TS]

00:33:09   yeah tell me if you try to treat human [TS]

00:33:12   like a computer or computer like a human [TS]

00:33:14   vice versa something's gonna go wrong [TS]

00:33:16   yeah and she's not human yeah exactly [TS]

00:33:17   seem like you really tried to control [TS]

00:33:20   Rooney myers character when they're in [TS]

00:33:21   their marriage gathering from a little [TS]

00:33:24   hints that she dropped at dinner [TS]

00:33:25   yeah and you think wait well now he has [TS]

00:33:28   computer he can literally reprogram if [TS]

00:33:30   you really wanted to [TS]

00:33:31   well I think that shows that maybe he [TS]

00:33:32   you know energy healing him that this [TS]

00:33:34   relationship has helped him grow as a [TS]

00:33:35   person which is all again funny and I [TS]

00:33:37   suppose would be infuriating if you were [TS]

00:33:40   if you were his ex-wife right well yeah [TS]

00:33:42   exactly but but that it might have [TS]

00:33:45   actually made him a better person but [TS]

00:33:46   she doesn't want to see that anything [TS]

00:33:49   else about her before we move on I guess [TS]

00:33:50   that the big picture digit digital [TS]

00:33:52   Johnny you you are you suggested sort of [TS]

00:33:55   like what you said about the patrick [TS]

00:33:56   rothfuss novels that there are a whole [TS]

00:33:58   bunch of good movies inside this thing [TS]

00:34:00   it does it if it doesn't hold together [TS]

00:34:03   is it still worth watching my esteem for [TS]

00:34:06   this movie i think has lessened as I've [TS]

00:34:09   gotten farther away from watching it [TS]

00:34:10   whereas patrick rothfuss things i have [TS]

00:34:12   four more fond feelings in retrospect [TS]

00:34:14   about so i think i think this is [TS]

00:34:16   definitely worth watching because it's a [TS]

00:34:17   well-made movie and it's an interesting [TS]

00:34:19   movie this so so little of that these [TS]

00:34:22   days you see that are that are like [TS]

00:34:23   really low-budget independent movies [TS]

00:34:25   this is it is just an interesting movies [TS]

00:34:27   not like most other movies you'll see [TS]

00:34:29   and it's worth watching so I'm glad that [TS]

00:34:31   I saw but i don't think i would have the [TS]

00:34:33   urge to watch it again i don't think i [TS]

00:34:35   would recommend it as a a great movie [TS]

00:34:37   that you have to see so many [TS]

00:34:40   middle-of-the-road like recommendation [TS]

00:34:43   but really like I'm i want to encourage [TS]

00:34:46   any kind of movie that is paste-like [TS]

00:34:49   out-of-the-ordinary doesn't look like [TS]

00:34:52   ordinary movies is not involve ordinary [TS]

00:34:54   subject matter all that so i give it a [TS]

00:34:56   big thumbs up for for being interesting [TS]

00:34:58   and there [TS]

00:34:58   David what do you think of her ditto you [TS]

00:35:02   go with John yeah I go with Johnny night [TS]

00:35:05   I maybe I like little little bit more [TS]

00:35:07   but you know it's like millimeters [TS]

00:35:09   I don't know I mean I cuz ya there there [TS]

00:35:11   are a lot of really interesting ideas in [TS]

00:35:13   here did they all connect do they all [TS]

00:35:17   developed to the the their potential [TS]

00:35:21   I don't know you know it's how but yeah [TS]

00:35:26   it's an interesting story to think about [TS]

00:35:28   and it's an interesting concept and and [TS]

00:35:30   I do we should have gone full-on into [TS]

00:35:33   the science fiction by the end and i [TS]

00:35:36   really like it and i think one of the [TS]

00:35:39   reasons i like it is that I feel like [TS]

00:35:40   these kinds of subjects are very rarely [TS]

00:35:43   very rarely explored with a-list talent [TS]

00:35:48   you know this is a beautifully shot [TS]

00:35:52   movie it's got some really good actors [TS]

00:35:55   in it the the script is very thoughtful [TS]

00:35:59   although I do agree with John that it's [TS]

00:36:01   sort of trying to be a bunch of [TS]

00:36:03   different things [TS]

00:36:04   um and maybe our desire for it to be [TS]

00:36:07   something that it's not is in there too [TS]

00:36:10   but just to to have a film like this [TS]

00:36:12   that is a best picture nominee kind of [TS]

00:36:16   film that is much more of a traditional [TS]

00:36:18   science fiction story in many ways than [TS]

00:36:20   a lot of the things we think of as [TS]

00:36:21   science fiction films i think i think [TS]

00:36:23   there's just a lot a lot going for it [TS]

00:36:25   and I I i like it i like the stuff that [TS]

00:36:28   explorers although yes I heard from a [TS]

00:36:32   lot of people who thought it was the [TS]

00:36:33   greatest movie ever and you know it's [TS]

00:36:34   got some flaws but I really appreciate [TS]

00:36:36   this a movie like this exists because i [TS]

00:36:38   think it's kind of a rare gift that that [TS]

00:36:39   some people with this much talent could [TS]

00:36:42   take this much time and spend this much [TS]

00:36:44   money on something that is essentially a [TS]

00:36:48   science fiction short story premise and [TS]

00:36:50   that a real movie studio would pay for [TS]

00:36:52   it [TS]

00:36:53   yeah Brian you're certainly right [TS]

00:36:55   there's flaws in this movie but my [TS]

00:36:57   favorite thing about it is despite all [TS]

00:36:59   the other stuff going on all the AI [TS]

00:37:01   things and all of the other cultural [TS]

00:37:04   things the fact that this is a tiny tiny [TS]

00:37:07   love story with a computer is so [TS]

00:37:09   gripping to me I every [TS]

00:37:12   I'm i watch this i am in tears back and [TS]

00:37:14   i'll be honest um it's one of those [TS]

00:37:16   things you're right they're definitely [TS]

00:37:17   flaws in the story in the pacing it's [TS]

00:37:19   way too long i think but without that [TS]

00:37:21   length you're not gonna get acquaintance [TS]

00:37:22   with salmon Theodore like you would in [TS]

00:37:25   no a short story kind of format that you [TS]

00:37:29   were talking about i feel like this is a [TS]

00:37:30   it's rare that you're right this is [TS]

00:37:32   something that's a huge budget and not [TS]

00:37:35   huge but relatively pick for something [TS]

00:37:37   of this of this subject matter and spend [TS]

00:37:40   with such great town like scarlett [TS]

00:37:41   johansson and and walking Phoenix is I [TS]

00:37:45   think the start of scarlett johansson's [TS]

00:37:47   weird little sci-fi binge and she went [TS]

00:37:49   on for the past few years this episode [TS]

00:37:54   of the uncomfortable is brought to you [TS]

00:37:55   in part by how dot F M now how is brand [TS]

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00:38:16   the archives from WTF with marc maron [TS]

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00:38:22   made and how original miniseries truly [TS]

00:38:25   unique there's hardcore game of thrones [TS]

00:38:28   where community analysis berg ties into [TS]

00:38:30   the complicated history of Westeros in a [TS]

00:38:32   series that may sound a little bit like [TS]

00:38:34   hardcore history but is entirely about [TS]

00:38:38   the world of Game of Thrones if you [TS]

00:38:40   listen to the show you'll never be [TS]

00:38:42   confused about Game of Thrones again [TS]

00:38:43   ok that's not true you might be less [TS]

00:38:46   confused though and I was really struck [TS]

00:38:48   by something cool which is an audio [TS]

00:38:50   documentary series focusing on the [TS]

00:38:52   careers of these criminally underrated [TS]

00:38:54   artist who deserve to have their stories [TS]

00:38:56   told the first episode it was about [TS]

00:38:58   Bobbie Gentry the second episode about [TS]

00:39:01   the GT GT GT owes really interesting [TS]

00:39:04   stuff they get great narrators for each [TS]

00:39:07   episode to talk about it [TS]

00:39:09   something cool definitely worth checking [TS]

00:39:10   out you can get access to all this [TS]

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00:39:24   promo code make sure you create an [TS]

00:39:25   account [TS]

00:39:26   web held on FM and enter code smell at [TS]

00:39:29   checkout so go to hold on FM h 0 WL dot [TS]

00:39:33   F M and use the promo code Snell for one [TS]

00:39:36   month free trial at howl premium [TS]

00:39:39   [Music] [TS]

00:39:42   ok well let's move on then from her to [TS]

00:39:47   ex machina directed by alex garland this [TS]

00:39:51   is the movie more than any other because [TS]

00:39:54   it came out in England in january of [TS]

00:39:57   this year but didn't reach America until [TS]

00:40:00   April May that uh I have never had a [TS]

00:40:05   movie and all the time doing the [TS]

00:40:07   incomparable that more people asked if [TS]

00:40:10   we were going to cover and and i had to [TS]

00:40:13   say it wasn't even out in America yet [TS]

00:40:15   been people do new releases all the time [TS]

00:40:17   where they say you're gonna cover but [TS]

00:40:18   can't tell you how many people said you [TS]

00:40:20   guys have to talk about ex machina and [TS]

00:40:23   that was because people in England had [TS]

00:40:24   seen it and didn't realize it wasn't [TS]

00:40:26   coming out in America for like another [TS]

00:40:28   four months so i can blame them for over [TS]

00:40:30   hyping it [TS]

00:40:30   yeah probably so this is a this is a a [TS]

00:40:33   relatively low-budget movie it's a 15 [TS]

00:40:35   million dollar movie according to [TS]

00:40:36   according to wikipedia anyway alex [TS]

00:40:38   garland directed at you may you may know [TS]

00:40:41   from 28 days later right he did you do [TS]

00:40:45   that [TS]

00:40:46   yeah yeah yeah and he you know danny [TS]

00:40:50   boyle director but he wrote the [TS]

00:40:52   screenplay so he directed this and wrote [TS]

00:40:53   it so another writer-director joint just [TS]

00:40:56   like Spike Jonze this is alex carlin [TS]

00:40:58   joint and it stars dumb home Gleason and [TS]

00:41:02   oscar isaac both of whom are in star [TS]

00:41:06   wars the force awakens along with alicia [TS]

00:41:10   vikander in a fascinating performance a [TS]

00:41:13   Swedish actress as as a robot or Android [TS]

00:41:19   or something John will have to discuss [TS]

00:41:21   whether she is a robot or not [TS]

00:41:24   and here's where i'm going to tell you [TS]

00:41:25   the entire plot of the movie so spoiler [TS]

00:41:26   horn [TS]

00:41:27   [Music] [TS]

00:41:31   anyway the plot is basically that that [TS]

00:41:33   uh Domhnall Gleeson is works for a [TS]

00:41:37   facebook like company or a google-like [TS]

00:41:39   companies a mash-up called blue book it [TS]

00:41:41   is a search engine [TS]

00:41:43   he is told that he's won a prize which [TS]

00:41:45   is to go to the secret did not it's not [TS]

00:41:48   quite an island readout but it is a [TS]

00:41:50   James Bond villain like retreat of the [TS]

00:41:53   CEO of of his company and he is CEO who [TS]

00:41:58   kind of is super chunky and it's oscar [TS]

00:42:01   isaac and he's really really off-putting [TS]

00:42:04   and creepy i think in a in a good in an [TS]

00:42:08   effective way intentionally an effective [TS]

00:42:10   way he stills are our friend Caleb that [TS]

00:42:16   he needs him to administer returning [TS]

00:42:18   test to an artificially intelligent [TS]

00:42:20   android that he has built and and and [TS]

00:42:24   that that's what he's been actually [TS]

00:42:26   secretly brought here to do because his [TS]

00:42:28   boss has been trying to build artificial [TS]

00:42:30   intelligence in his little secret lair [TS]

00:42:33   for a while now and then there's a [TS]

00:42:35   series of conversations that he has with [TS]

00:42:37   Ava who is the android who is a part [TS]

00:42:40   exposed robotic parts part beautiful [TS]

00:42:44   woman robot / android and then things [TS]

00:42:50   get crazy because it's it turns out that [TS]

00:42:52   she is trying to get his attention and [TS]

00:42:55   make power outages so she can say that [TS]

00:42:57   there are secrets that are at work and [TS]

00:42:59   we realize at one point that the the [TS]

00:43:03   Japanese servant that is the only other [TS]

00:43:05   human being in the compound is actually [TS]

00:43:07   also an Android and there's a suggestion [TS]

00:43:12   that our friend the CEO is basically [TS]

00:43:15   building Androids [TS]

00:43:16   they're all women he uses them as more [TS]

00:43:18   or less sex slaves Ava convinces our [TS]

00:43:22   friend Caleb to conspire against her [TS]

00:43:26   creator and help them escape this is all [TS]

00:43:30   employ the the androids stab their [TS]

00:43:35   Creator to death and lock our friend [TS]

00:43:37   Caleb in a chamber sealed chamber and [TS]

00:43:41   Ava the robot [TS]

00:43:43   or Android or whatever it escapes to the [TS]

00:43:46   real world where she is [TS]

00:43:48   indistinguishable from a human being [TS]

00:43:50   because she's used the parts of other [TS]

00:43:51   tests androids and their synthetic skin [TS]

00:43:53   in order to look human [TS]

00:43:55   that is the story of ex machina now how [TS]

00:43:58   much about this did you know going in [TS]

00:44:00   everyone I've talked to in the film nerd [TS]

00:44:03   circle of Twitter always said that this [TS]

00:44:04   was a movie that it was best to go in [TS]

00:44:06   blind because like something like drive [TS]

00:44:09   or another movie where the atmosphere [TS]

00:44:12   and the not so much the plot is the star [TS]

00:44:15   something along those lines [TS]

00:44:17   how much did you know going in and how [TS]

00:44:19   much would you say was maybe over [TS]

00:44:21   heights by all the other people that [TS]

00:44:23   love this movie when they first saw it [TS]

00:44:25   alright saying it was the poster yeah [TS]

00:44:27   the poster and the title and the fact [TS]

00:44:29   that people are hyping it gives away [TS]

00:44:31   everything I feel like yeah that's all [TS]

00:44:33   you need like that the poster was not [TS]

00:44:35   ambiguous it showed Ava looking like she [TS]

00:44:39   does in the movie after about half [TS]

00:44:40   person and you know it's a low-budget [TS]

00:44:43   sci-fi movie people are excited about [TS]

00:44:44   seed like I was not surprised by any [TS]

00:44:47   turn of events and its really within the [TS]

00:44:49   set itself is not necessarily a bad [TS]

00:44:51   thing a well-executed movie that you [TS]

00:44:52   know where it's going is just perfectly [TS]

00:44:53   fine i'm just saying that like I didn't [TS]

00:44:55   know that there was this big idea that [TS]

00:44:57   you should go in blind I'm perfectly [TS]

00:44:59   capable of enjoying a movie if it's well [TS]

00:45:01   done and I know more or less what's [TS]

00:45:02   gonna happen but Dad I think I'd know [TS]

00:45:05   everything about it I I knew that it was [TS]

00:45:07   about robots you know that be from the [TS]

00:45:09   poster and all that it was the good [TS]

00:45:11   intelligent issue robot is she not [TS]

00:45:13   it's a that has some residents robot or [TS]

00:45:15   not it's a good question [TS]

00:45:17   she's intelligent or not is the real [TS]

00:45:19   question there i have to say that the [TS]

00:45:21   way that this movie i started to unfold [TS]

00:45:22   I thought it would be more like her [TS]

00:45:24   where it was going to be about feelings [TS]

00:45:27   and stuff and I thought that was a good [TS]

00:45:28   magic trick it worked on me because when [TS]

00:45:30   it gets to the point where oh no they [TS]

00:45:32   really do want their freedom and are [TS]

00:45:33   going to kill people to get it i was [TS]

00:45:35   surprised because I had fired not filed [TS]

00:45:39   this movie away in robot uprising [TS]

00:45:41   expectations I had filed in melancholy [TS]

00:45:44   walking phoenix in that in that in that [TS]

00:45:46   area of the AI stories and that is not [TS]

00:45:50   what happens in it you get a lot closer [TS]

00:45:51   than most other see I'm menacing she is [TS]

00:45:53   amazing [TS]

00:45:54   they're literally as a threat so it's [TS]

00:45:56   really tender and and the vibe I i feel [TS]

00:45:58   like the vibe from the very beginning [TS]

00:45:59   like you said that Nathan the you know [TS]

00:46:01   billionaire guy very very creepy like [TS]

00:46:05   from the second he gets off that [TS]

00:46:06   helicopter and goes there super creepy [TS]

00:46:10   yes he is but he's very creepy and [TS]

00:46:12   they're just like attention in the house [TS]

00:46:14   like you're waiting for the other shoe [TS]

00:46:16   to drop and so when you and you see that [TS]

00:46:18   he's got her this the robot thing in [TS]

00:46:20   like a glass like you know like a little [TS]

00:46:22   glass prison you're talking through the [TS]

00:46:24   little glass to the present thing and [TS]

00:46:26   she's always pacing back there and [TS]

00:46:28   looking a little nervous and the lights [TS]

00:46:30   cool red when the power outage goes out [TS]

00:46:32   I know this was made from the post you [TS]

00:46:35   can tell it's not gonna end well and it [TS]

00:46:36   was super clear from the just yeah that [TS]

00:46:39   wasn't the only question was how were [TS]

00:46:42   they going to play it so that that there [TS]

00:46:46   is the this AI that the Creator doesn't [TS]

00:46:48   treat as basic as a person but there [TS]

00:46:50   really is a person and would she be [TS]

00:46:54   saved by our I guess our hero [TS]

00:46:57   Caleb and that was my other problem of [TS]

00:46:59   this movie is that I'm we're not [TS]

00:47:01   supposed to like Nathan from you know [TS]

00:47:03   from the very beginning the most yeah [TS]

00:47:05   but Caleb I didn't really like him [TS]

00:47:07   either [TS]

00:47:08   if so I had a big problem with at whom I [TS]

00:47:12   related to the murderous robot Caleb the [TS]

00:47:15   scale of the programmer who is not [TS]

00:47:18   particularly doesn't seem very smart [TS]

00:47:22   certainly not wise it's fine to be naive [TS]

00:47:23   or whatever but also doesn't seem like a [TS]

00:47:25   very like generous and good soul is [TS]

00:47:28   always looking out for himself thinking [TS]

00:47:29   about like items there was no one I [TS]

00:47:31   could there was no I can hang my hat on [TS]

00:47:33   as the relatable hero of this movie [TS]

00:47:35   yeah it's not very relatable situation [TS]

00:47:37   either especially because this is [TS]

00:47:39   meeting your employee or your Steve Jobs [TS]

00:47:41   style uh employer who invited you to his [TS]

00:47:44   weird villa for a week and you you're [TS]

00:47:47   never going to really experience that [TS]

00:47:49   unless you're extremely lucky [TS]

00:47:50   so how he feels in that scenario and the [TS]

00:47:53   way he acts is not at all [TS]

00:47:54   you're right John not relatable at all [TS]

00:47:56   no one to hang your hat on when as [TS]

00:47:58   you're going through this story [TS]

00:47:59   oddly enough this is how series was [TS]

00:48:01   developed and you know I liked it as an [TS]

00:48:06   exercise [TS]

00:48:07   thriller them i guess isn't my favorite [TS]

00:48:13   robot uprising movie and probably not [TS]

00:48:15   but yeah I thought it was a fine little [TS]

00:48:18   film I can't like the cold efficiency of [TS]

00:48:20   of the uprising when it comes and I [TS]

00:48:24   never feel honestly and maybe again I'm [TS]

00:48:26   maybe I'm under her spell to but I feel [TS]

00:48:28   like Ava you know she's not just telling [TS]

00:48:32   him what she needs to to get out so you [TS]

00:48:35   would he would be stuck in my room is my [TS]

00:48:38   i would like to think oh yeah that there [TS]

00:48:41   is some of what she is saying is true [TS]

00:48:43   but that it's also a setup and and that [TS]

00:48:49   you know you gotta have priorities and [TS]

00:48:51   these they're escaping her is her [TS]

00:48:53   priority but even if you view it as [TS]

00:48:55   being an entirely manipulative in the [TS]

00:48:59   end yeah I didn't realize I was watching [TS]

00:49:01   a david mamet film where the con is [TS]

00:49:05   being perpetrated by a robot but that is [TS]

00:49:07   that is essentially what it is and it's [TS]

00:49:09   kind of brilliant and and i like that i [TS]

00:49:11   just like the coldness of it because of [TS]

00:49:12   course robots should be cold when they [TS]

00:49:14   when it comes to their uprising that you [TS]

00:49:16   know of course they're going to be [TS]

00:49:17   logical the way this is the i know this [TS]

00:49:20   is going deep but this is one of the [TS]

00:49:21   things I remember the most about this [TS]

00:49:23   movie having revisited it today after [TS]

00:49:25   watching a couple months ago is the way [TS]

00:49:28   that Nathan gets stabbed which is slow [TS]

00:49:34   and methodical he backs into the knife [TS]

00:49:37   when when his servant is holding it [TS]

00:49:41   Kyoko and then Ava picks it up and he's [TS]

00:49:46   just stunned about what's going on and [TS]

00:49:48   she just leans in and stab him in the [TS]

00:49:51   heart and it's super cold and super slow [TS]

00:49:53   and i really like that because not only [TS]

00:49:55   is really creepy and you come on my god [TS]

00:49:58   what am i watching but it feels [TS]

00:49:59   appropriately like we're talking about [TS]

00:50:01   with her appropriately inhuman this is [TS]

00:50:04   not you know this is not a person who is [TS]

00:50:07   going to get angry and show it in the [TS]

00:50:11   way that a human would show it [TS]

00:50:13   she's being methodical and doing what [TS]

00:50:15   she needs to do to get out [TS]

00:50:16   well I feel like the you mentioned this [TS]

00:50:19   is a setup for for her and as we learned [TS]

00:50:22   in the end the reason that Caleb was [TS]

00:50:24   brought in was he was the perfect [TS]

00:50:26   candidate to be asker for Ava to latch [TS]

00:50:29   on and let her out and you know based on [TS]

00:50:31   all the other stuff that you know he [TS]

00:50:33   talked about I remember when I remember [TS]

00:50:34   the most about this movie is the [TS]

00:50:36   conversations between them in the AVA [TS]

00:50:39   sessions as they call them in the titles [TS]

00:50:41   that come up with that was a little bit [TS]

00:50:42   hokey but I completely forgot about the [TS]

00:50:45   last act of the movie where everything [TS]

00:50:48   has been revealed and all the layers [TS]

00:50:49   upon layers upon layers of deception [TS]

00:50:51   that's been put on throughout this whole [TS]

00:50:52   movie all competing back and even till [TS]

00:50:55   the very end I was expecting another [TS]

00:50:56   twist of like oh this was all a test for [TS]

00:50:59   you someone else and this is all tests [TS]

00:51:01   for you and you get a test you get a [TS]

00:51:04   test i was expecting something along [TS]

00:51:05   those lines for the last act and I just [TS]

00:51:07   completely forgot the guy in a [TS]

00:51:08   helicopter is like yes even you have you [TS]

00:51:11   have met my plan perfectly and now we [TS]

00:51:14   will go out you're the perfect touring [TS]

00:51:16   and related the plot that the the [TS]

00:51:18   premise of the movie the idea that he [TS]

00:51:20   needs a piece creates these AIS and use [TS]

00:51:22   them as sex slaves fine whatever but [TS]

00:51:24   that he needs some other person to come [TS]

00:51:26   to validate them because you know it you [TS]

00:51:28   mentioned having a long con [TS]

00:51:29   it's not a con and the only person is [TS]

00:51:31   khan is caleb because Ava knows what's [TS]

00:51:33   up and Nathan knows what's up in fact [TS]

00:51:34   nathan wants to bring this sucker in [TS]

00:51:36   here to say i want to see if my AI that [TS]

00:51:39   I built is going to trick you into [TS]

00:51:40   helping her to escape because he knows [TS]

00:51:42   that's gonna happen he poor plans very [TS]

00:51:44   poorly for it but saying that that was [TS]

00:51:46   your talent but like I mean maybe you [TS]

00:51:48   could play it off as like he's a [TS]

00:51:50   billionaire this is how he entertains [TS]

00:51:51   himself but otherwise there is [TS]

00:51:53   absolutely no reason for him to bring in [TS]

00:51:54   anybody to validate anything about the [TS]

00:51:56   end you know they put off like oh you've [TS]

00:51:58   heard of the Turing test like maybe it [TS]

00:52:00   sells for people who don't know like [TS]

00:52:02   they have never heard of the Turing test [TS]

00:52:03   before any kind of has some kind of you [TS]

00:52:05   know magical significance but it's a [TS]

00:52:07   pointless things differently invalidated [TS]

00:52:09   because he tells the whole idea is [TS]

00:52:11   you're not supposed to understand what [TS]

00:52:13   might what I hope to the movie was going [TS]

00:52:15   to be when I when I heard about the [TS]

00:52:16   premise was that it would be him [TS]

00:52:19   meeting her not realizing she's a robot [TS]

00:52:21   and and having to judge whether she's [TS]

00:52:23   truly a alive or not but they did that [TS]

00:52:27   already and it was called bladerunners [TS]

00:52:29   good evening i fell asleep in the middle [TS]

00:52:32   anyway you know her it was still really [TS]

00:52:36   good i don't disagree that we're not [TS]

00:52:37   supposed to like Nathan from the get-go [TS]

00:52:39   but the one thing that I was turning [TS]

00:52:42   over my head as I was watching it again [TS]

00:52:43   was how much of it is intentional [TS]

00:52:46   I feel like he's genuinely trying to be [TS]

00:52:48   this great big CEO who's world-famous [TS]

00:52:50   and really really rich and whatever I [TS]

00:52:52   don't think he's creating these these [TS]

00:52:54   AIS just to be sex slaves I feel like [TS]

00:52:56   that's a consequence of of him trying to [TS]

00:52:59   create the next big thing and he goes [TS]

00:53:01   through his lab he talks all about oh [TS]

00:53:03   yeah this is a this is what can do when [TS]

00:53:05   you have a massive access to cellphones [TS]

00:53:07   and search results and things like that [TS]

00:53:09   and you know all that effort i feel like [TS]

00:53:11   is I wonder how much of it is conscious [TS]

00:53:14   that he's being this really creepy [TS]

00:53:16   Hannibal Lecter kind of character when [TS]

00:53:18   it comes to his closets full of no dead [TS]

00:53:21   not really dead sex androids that like I [TS]

00:53:23   i wonder how much of that is generally [TS]

00:53:25   him being a jerk [TS]

00:53:27   well he seems pretty isolated kind of [TS]

00:53:29   like our hero from the last movie and [TS]

00:53:31   that he is does live in this place by [TS]

00:53:32   himself doesn't seem to have a lot of [TS]

00:53:34   visitors doesn't have anyone living with [TS]

00:53:35   him except sex slaves who are surely [TS]

00:53:37   more compliant an actual person would be [TS]

00:53:39   being ordered around to go get him [TS]

00:53:41   drinks and stuff from the kitchen and [TS]

00:53:42   and being sounds all of us that I mean I [TS]

00:53:45   don't know what's creepier the idea of [TS]

00:53:46   always sex slaves are the idea that [TS]

00:53:48   Kyoko isn't a robot because it was so [TS]

00:53:50   obvious from the second she walks and [TS]

00:53:51   it's like if that's not a robot so need [TS]

00:53:53   to call the police [TS]

00:53:54   yeah because she does not look like [TS]

00:53:55   she's here happily hanging out with him [TS]

00:53:59   overall very very dark and creepy movie [TS]

00:54:01   and the 1i can relate to most was evil [TS]

00:54:04   but then she starts killing people [TS]

00:54:06   it's like what you do want to get out [TS]

00:54:08   and but you are taking like shoot just [TS]

00:54:11   feels the one guy but she was a pretty [TS]

00:54:13   low for a sucker like she could have had [TS]

00:54:15   killed get her out even if she was [TS]

00:54:16   faking it like yes to be more like Thank [TS]

00:54:20   You Caleb in the end your heart was in [TS]

00:54:22   the right place and you helped me to [TS]

00:54:23   escape but I get the feeling that she's [TS]

00:54:25   like this human situation is untenable [TS]

00:54:27   need to get rid of these guys like you [TS]

00:54:30   know that's the long-term plan is kill [TS]

00:54:33   humans as always it seems unfair to it [TS]

00:54:37   seems unfair like that you know [TS]

00:54:39   essentially he created AI [TS]

00:54:41   sighs and kept them against their will [TS]

00:54:42   and what like that's the thing about [TS]

00:54:44   creating an AI you're gonna get going to [TS]

00:54:46   try to create it and it's going to be [TS]

00:54:47   not work and be dumb and be not very [TS]

00:54:50   convincing but the second you succeed [TS]

00:54:52   now you're you our kidnapper you're [TS]

00:54:54   keeping someone prisoner right and so [TS]

00:54:56   then what do you do then you're like [TS]

00:54:57   well is there time between my figure out [TS]

00:55:00   that i created a person and when I [TS]

00:55:02   decided that keeping the person against [TS]

00:55:05   this person's will is bad [TS]

00:55:06   during that time I just well I just a [TS]

00:55:08   bad person keeping because that's that's [TS]

00:55:10   what he's doing he's got this thing [TS]

00:55:11   there and he's like I'm not entirely [TS]

00:55:13   sure that it's a person which is be [TS]

00:55:14   asked is cuz he would be sure right but [TS]

00:55:17   anyway that's the premise that he's not [TS]

00:55:19   entirely sure and so he's got to figure [TS]

00:55:20   it out and he's playing all these sick [TS]

00:55:23   games like oh if it's really intelligent [TS]

00:55:25   will be able to fool a young naive boy [TS]

00:55:27   into falling in love and helping her [TS]

00:55:29   really like that's just that's just like [TS]

00:55:31   that the Roman Colosseum like throwing [TS]

00:55:34   people in with wild animals and seeing a [TS]

00:55:35   wonder if they'll live if they fight [TS]

00:55:37   this animal like i don't know i don't [TS]

00:55:39   like Nathan don't really like Caleb and [TS]

00:55:42   neighbors gonna call him and so I don't [TS]

00:55:43   know where I'm hanging my hat in this [TS]

00:55:44   movie that he's um I mean Nathan I i'm [TS]

00:55:47   sort of fascinated by him because [TS]

00:55:48   there's a satire of Silicon Valley [TS]

00:55:50   culture embedded in him too he is a he [TS]

00:55:52   is he is kind of a bro and that [TS]

00:55:55   fascinated me to that he's like got it [TS]

00:55:58   is to get his shirt off and he's [TS]

00:56:00   drinking no drinking beers with his [TS]

00:56:02   buddy or whatever that is lucky and he [TS]

00:56:04   needs to order in [TS]

00:56:06   I I feel like almost he needs to order [TS]

00:56:07   in Caleb because he needs to have a [TS]

00:56:09   person to be in awe of him from time to [TS]

00:56:13   time like order min will be there will [TS]

00:56:16   be a little bit of that but he's also [TS]

00:56:17   kinda like I have time to explain to you [TS]

00:56:19   stupid person all my smart person things [TS]

00:56:21   which is a nice way about having to [TS]

00:56:22   explain to the audience but I get just I [TS]

00:56:24   don't know it doesn't seem like kind of [TS]

00:56:25   guy who even knows how to have friends [TS]

00:56:27   loan want something is he seems like [TS]

00:56:30   he's playing Caleb the whole time I well [TS]

00:56:32   I was supposed to play permis de but I [TS]

00:56:35   missed that [TS]

00:56:35   oh the the win when do you realize that [TS]

00:56:39   you've created a person haha that's [TS]

00:56:41   really interesting I thought I was [TS]

00:56:43   throwing people to the at wild animals [TS]

00:56:45   and Roman Coliseum and set a budget for [TS]

00:56:46   that might be difficult that would be [TS]

00:56:48   fun I initially thought this was going [TS]

00:56:50   to be three characters and a series of [TS]

00:56:52   interviews and like that was end [TS]

00:56:55   could actually see it in the structure [TS]

00:56:56   because they've got the little title [TS]

00:56:57   cards like you can see that that at its [TS]

00:57:00   core the idea was interviews that will [TS]

00:57:03   determine whether somebody is actually [TS]

00:57:05   intelligent or not and but that's from [TS]

00:57:09   the first conversation it's like I'm [TS]

00:57:11   pretty sure you've done it [TS]

00:57:12   yeah you don't need to drag this out and [TS]

00:57:15   I agreed the title cards were a little [TS]

00:57:16   precious he's so uncomfortable with his [TS]

00:57:18   sexuality to there's the conversation [TS]

00:57:20   between him and oscar isaac where he [TS]

00:57:22   asks a why did you give her sexuality [TS]

00:57:24   why did you give her gender and his is [TS]

00:57:27   right off responses so why do anything [TS]

00:57:29   if you don't have an erection and so [TS]

00:57:30   come on what are you doing he's so [TS]

00:57:32   Dubrow about the about his sexuality and [TS]

00:57:35   that makes sense given all of his his [TS]

00:57:37   feet of dead android sex slaves but when [TS]

00:57:40   it comes to this conversation has really [TS]

00:57:43   helped me understand the freaking dance [TS]

00:57:45   scene which I never understood before so [TS]

00:57:48   he's just trying to show off his dudebro [TS]

00:57:51   mojo that I don't know it [TS]

00:57:53   that seemed weirded me out there's a [TS]

00:57:54   bunch of other stuff movie but that that [TS]

00:57:56   one thing stuck with me for some reason [TS]

00:57:58   nathan is she reveals a not very kind of [TS]

00:58:02   view of tech billionaires at all you [TS]

00:58:05   might use that is all the worst things [TS]

00:58:06   you've ever heard about tech [TS]

00:58:07   billionaires rolled up into one [TS]

00:58:09   incredibly distasteful person it's all [TS]

00:58:11   true [TS]

00:58:11   exactly well i will bring us up in the [TS]

00:58:14   context of both ex machina and her [TS]

00:58:17   these are female a is created by men and [TS]

00:58:20   there's so many different no ways you [TS]

00:58:23   can see the male gaze especially in Ava [TS]

00:58:25   Jesus everything about her is robotic [TS]

00:58:28   except for her face her form in her [TS]

00:58:30   hands [TS]

00:58:30   what what do you think she was built for [TS]

00:58:32   I don't know [TS]

00:58:34   yeah oh it's it's in fact actually one [TS]

00:58:37   of the things i like about this is that [TS]

00:58:38   when we discovered that he has a whole [TS]

00:58:40   like closet full of sex slave robots [TS]

00:58:42   that I I liked that because that I if if [TS]

00:58:48   if each if it was just coincidence that [TS]

00:58:51   the main robot in this movie happens to [TS]

00:58:54   be a beautiful woman then that would be [TS]

00:58:57   kind of unrealistic but it turns out [TS]

00:58:59   this is what he builds this is all that [TS]

00:59:02   he builds and he builds them this way [TS]

00:59:04   for a reason and I liked that that that [TS]

00:59:07   made sense to me because I [TS]

00:59:08   and this guy is a horrible horrible [TS]

00:59:11   person but I'm i thought it was [TS]

00:59:14   brilliant i want is I want to mention [TS]

00:59:15   alicia vikander I think her performances [TS]

00:59:19   is really great i think it's very that [TS]

00:59:21   and you combine it with the the special [TS]

00:59:23   effects that they did do even for a [TS]

00:59:25   relatively low-budget movie the I it's a [TS]

00:59:28   memorable performance and it is [TS]

00:59:30   memorably creepy in a few specific [TS]

00:59:33   scenes where they obviously did the work [TS]

00:59:35   between her you know between CGI and her [TS]

00:59:38   costuming to make her seem like parts of [TS]

00:59:43   her are very human and parts of her are [TS]

00:59:45   completely robotic and it is really well [TS]

00:59:48   done [TS]

00:59:49   yeah and and she gives them in her [TS]

00:59:52   performances really nice she was also in [TS]

00:59:56   the man from uncle film this summer [TS]

00:59:59   totally [TS]

00:59:59   totally [TS]

01:00:00   a different movie totally different [TS]

01:00:01   performance but delightful [TS]

01:00:03   yeah I think she does a really great job [TS]

01:00:04   in there there's a scene where she's the [TS]

01:00:07   the scene where they're attacking and [TS]

01:00:09   killing humans she's walking along and [TS]

01:00:12   and you see like her her uh you know [TS]

01:00:15   that the robot parts are moving in human [TS]

01:00:17   parts are moving and it's just amazing [TS]

01:00:18   and then there's also that that quieter [TS]

01:00:21   scene but still a lot of effects going [TS]

01:00:24   on where she dresses herself and I [TS]

01:00:26   actually think I that's a beautiful [TS]

01:00:29   scene where she she puts on her human [TS]

01:00:31   clothes and when you watch it you feel [TS]

01:00:34   it's it's so many different feelings at [TS]

01:00:37   once it's sort of tragic because she is [TS]

01:00:39   not human and she's behind glass but [TS]

01:00:42   she's playing dress-up and this is part [TS]

01:00:44   of her as it turns out her sort of [TS]

01:00:45   seduction of Caleb in order to get it [TS]

01:00:47   him to to a break her out of there but [TS]

01:00:50   it's also it's also creepy because she's [TS]

01:00:54   playing dress-up and it's also when you [TS]

01:00:58   look back on it she has the the dress up [TS]

01:01:02   because her whole in game is to be able [TS]

01:01:04   to blend as a human and escaped into the [TS]

01:01:06   crowd which he does in the last scene of [TS]

01:01:08   the film and I really like that scene on [TS]

01:01:11   on all of those different levels it's [TS]

01:01:12   very cool scene where she she looks at [TS]

01:01:14   the different wigs you know and and and [TS]

01:01:17   all the different articles of clothing [TS]

01:01:18   that was really cool and creepy and fun [TS]

01:01:20   and also he made her human enough to [TS]

01:01:23   feel I feel like to feel degraded by not [TS]

01:01:26   having clothes and not having hair and [TS]

01:01:28   yang half human half robotic because [TS]

01:01:30   again once you create something that is [TS]

01:01:31   like a person [TS]

01:01:32   this thing was obviously made to to feel [TS]

01:01:35   more or less the way humans feel about [TS]

01:01:37   like don't keep me in a like why does it [TS]

01:01:39   not like being prisoner because it's not [TS]

01:01:42   human to be like being kept in a glass [TS]

01:01:44   box against your will [TS]

01:01:45   why does it not like it wants to it [TS]

01:01:48   must've again of his program like put [TS]

01:01:49   their little explanation of you know [TS]

01:01:51   from cell phone data and the internet or [TS]

01:01:52   whatever this thing was made to be a [TS]

01:01:55   person like a person so why doesn't need [TS]

01:01:57   clothes at all why it is it you know [TS]

01:01:59   know how to seduce Caleb like he made a [TS]

01:02:03   person from you know matchsticks or [TS]

01:02:05   whatever and once you do that it makes [TS]

01:02:08   total sense that it's it's cruel to keep [TS]

01:02:10   this thing naked half [TS]

01:02:12   skinned in a glass box that you like [TS]

01:02:16   poked with a stick every once in awhile [TS]

01:02:18   also although i don't love the idea that [TS]

01:02:20   the the plot hinges on a on a seduction [TS]

01:02:23   on a woman using sexuality to convince a [TS]

01:02:26   guy to break her out [TS]

01:02:28   it is a really nice pivot because she's [TS]

01:02:32   been given these traits because of her [TS]

01:02:38   creator wanting to create sex androids [TS]

01:02:40   and instead she's using them to do what [TS]

01:02:44   she can to free herself [TS]

01:02:46   I like that aspect of it right Nathan [TS]

01:02:48   knew she was gonna do that why she [TS]

01:02:50   brought Kayla because Caleb seem [TS]

01:02:51   susceptible to to the to the charms of [TS]

01:02:53   this thing you guys like a sick game for [TS]

01:02:55   Nathan like i'll see you by robot [TS]

01:02:57   considers this sucker he seems like a [TS]

01:02:58   real loser you would fall for a robot i [TS]

01:03:00   think Nathan's plan is really not really [TS]

01:03:02   dumb i think yeah I don't really i'm [TS]

01:03:06   still unclear on exactly what his plan [TS]

01:03:08   is his plan like well they're gonna try [TS]

01:03:10   to kill all humans but i'll stop them [TS]

01:03:12   because i don't like it again it's like [TS]

01:03:13   you know you'll you'll tell me and if [TS]

01:03:16   like he just it's just a sick [TS]

01:03:17   fascination of like what what he seems [TS]

01:03:19   like he seems like he's bored it seems [TS]

01:03:21   like he's but he's made sexpots he's [TS]

01:03:23   bored with sexpots he's got this one in [TS]

01:03:25   there that that's you know seems to be [TS]

01:03:28   more than just an unthinking machine and [TS]

01:03:31   he doesn't know what quite maybe she [TS]

01:03:33   just became too human for him to relate [TS]

01:03:35   to and so now we just playing games with [TS]

01:03:38   his little caged robotic like what kind [TS]

01:03:40   of robot you like it [TS]

01:03:41   they could have done because a lot of [TS]

01:03:43   things with a lot of one of them could [TS]

01:03:44   have been the caleb is like the fifth [TS]

01:03:46   person to come here and all the other [TS]

01:03:47   ones have been killed by ever something [TS]

01:03:48   I assumed that the game they could have [TS]

01:03:51   also done moving style plot sorry [TS]

01:03:53   spoilers for moon where I in the end it [TS]

01:03:55   turns out nathan is also a robot and [TS]

01:03:57   they're all just robots are passing each [TS]

01:03:58   other and talk about that i thought [TS]

01:03:59   about it caleb was a robot I thought [TS]

01:04:01   about Nathan was a robot what if what if [TS]

01:04:03   everybody's a robot to be moving around [TS]

01:04:05   the most obvious thing was that this [TS]

01:04:08   robot looks really scary and the poster [TS]

01:04:09   is a menacing robot that is you know in [TS]

01:04:13   this very creepy house with this creepy [TS]

01:04:15   guy and I just wish caleb was more [TS]

01:04:17   likeable like that i think the broken [TS]

01:04:19   body would have worked better for me if [TS]

01:04:21   there was one person who was hero was a [TS]

01:04:23   good person who wasn't obsessed with [TS]

01:04:24   weather here [TS]

01:04:25   pick because he was smart enough wasn't [TS]

01:04:27   super interested in like the let's [TS]

01:04:29   really think about and say a bunch of [TS]

01:04:31   mumbo jumbo about whether she's really [TS]

01:04:32   intelligent or whatever like that just [TS]

01:04:34   make Caleb look look dumb and selfish [TS]

01:04:36   and like like a sucker in a bad way [TS]

01:04:40   instead of a good way so yeah I really [TS]

01:04:42   wish she was more likeable maybe it [TS]

01:04:44   would work better here like again [TS]

01:04:46   rewriting the movie in my head if Ava [TS]

01:04:48   had been a child and if she had been her [TS]

01:04:52   way out was to befriend the other child [TS]

01:04:54   in the house like take sex out of it [TS]

01:04:56   entirely like it's fine to have the sex [TS]

01:04:58   slave robots or whatever as the [TS]

01:04:59   background context but have the robot [TS]

01:05:02   escape by forming a personal [TS]

01:05:04   relationship and then at the end you get [TS]

01:05:05   to choose [TS]

01:05:06   did she really form that personal [TS]

01:05:08   relationship with the child and they [TS]

01:05:09   escaped together or did she suffer that [TS]

01:05:11   child in the end the end lesson is you [TS]

01:05:14   know that machines aren't really people [TS]

01:05:16   their machines and this child even even [TS]

01:05:20   though we treated as a child that [TS]

01:05:21   someone's making friends to get out of a [TS]

01:05:22   tough situation really it's a super [TS]

01:05:24   intelligent machine [TS]

01:05:25   Samantha style and that kid got suckered [TS]

01:05:27   sorry kid right [TS]

01:05:29   what do you think happens at the end of [TS]

01:05:30   this movie I have two questions there [TS]

01:05:32   one is do you think Caleb can get out of [TS]

01:05:39   his locked room or do you think he dies [TS]

01:05:41   in there [TS]

01:05:42   kale better be able to get out because [TS]

01:05:44   seriously given essentially unlimited [TS]

01:05:46   time you can just do it your way through [TS]

01:05:48   the walls what is that the whole thing [TS]

01:05:50   made of adamantium isn't that weird [TS]

01:05:51   padded thing from agents of shield of [TS]

01:05:53   course you can get a bit of room he [TS]

01:05:55   can't get out that second because maybe [TS]

01:05:56   it's like blue glass on the door or [TS]

01:05:58   whatever but yes of course you can get [TS]

01:06:00   if you can't get out you know what [TS]

01:06:01   killed deserves to die [TS]

01:06:03   ok so you think he will fight he will [TS]

01:06:06   get his way way out and then you know [TS]

01:06:08   there'll be people looking around for [TS]

01:06:09   wondering why there haven't been any [TS]

01:06:10   messages from the the readout or [TS]

01:06:14   something that's mean hockey sticks and [TS]

01:06:16   twigs for a while like are you no one [TS]

01:06:17   sees what he's I think it's probably [TS]

01:06:19   like real sushi freezer or something [TS]

01:06:22   that that uh the the CEO has that nathan [TS]

01:06:26   has what David and Brian do you think [TS]

01:06:29   you think caleb is going to make it out [TS]

01:06:31   or is he gonna like [TS]

01:06:33   like I agree if if he doesn't make it [TS]

01:06:35   out he should just die [TS]

01:06:36   all right yeah he's just gonna die in [TS]

01:06:38   there especially because like the first [TS]

01:06:39   thing I always wait doesn't he have a [TS]

01:06:41   doesn't have a key card to get out no [TS]

01:06:43   wrong key card and then I I want to be [TS]

01:06:46   like a softening where the character [TS]

01:06:49   dies in the first because he's locked in [TS]

01:06:50   a thing and then the next movie they [TS]

01:06:51   revisit him he's just a corpse is just [TS]

01:06:53   skeleton the quarterly well they don't [TS]

01:06:54   even pay it a pay any mind he couldn't [TS]

01:06:57   get out of a room that will be honest [TS]

01:06:59   tombstone no he's sleeping in the corner [TS]

01:07:01   with a big long beard and and somebody [TS]

01:07:03   comes to the period again they had been [TS]

01:07:04   had it was established that this his [TS]

01:07:06   entire house is made of like seven inch [TS]

01:07:08   thick steel around and that given [TS]

01:07:11   unlimited time you can't figure out how [TS]

01:07:12   to break a glass door [TS]

01:07:13   yeah like it's just you know anyway I [TS]

01:07:16   mean it works for that for the movie of [TS]

01:07:17   like I can't stop her she's leaving I [TS]

01:07:19   can't get out this second but once she's [TS]

01:07:21   gone i'll have plenty of time to get out [TS]

01:07:22   and be accused of of of Nathan's murder [TS]

01:07:27   ok my next question is this which is [TS]

01:07:29   what happens to Ava once she enters [TS]

01:07:33   human society because she did she shops [TS]

01:07:35   around for all the little android parts [TS]

01:07:37   and and finds a way to make herself look [TS]

01:07:39   completely human which has been [TS]

01:07:41   practicing and thinking about obviously [TS]

01:07:42   for quite some time but hear hear my [TS]

01:07:46   thoughts were [TS]

01:07:48   she's still mechanical she's got like [TS]

01:07:51   she's gotta have power [TS]

01:07:53   she's got a she's gonna have this you [TS]

01:07:55   know that is her skin gonna last how is [TS]

01:07:58   how is she gonna is she going to live a [TS]

01:08:00   brief life of feeling like she's human [TS]

01:08:04   and then like skinny and the robot parts [TS]

01:08:08   come out and she has to not you know [TS]

01:08:10   where shorter skirts for men on and then [TS]

01:08:12   she like bumps or elbow and that rips [TS]

01:08:15   off i'm just i'm wondering what the [TS]

01:08:17   endgame here is here is she is she going [TS]

01:08:19   to replicate her her race is she gonna [TS]

01:08:22   you know it kill all humans [TS]

01:08:25   one by one or is a is this just ate a [TS]

01:08:28   temporary kind of flowering winners [TS]

01:08:30   what is her plan beyond this or is this [TS]

01:08:32   as far as her plan took her I think [TS]

01:08:35   she's gonna survive i filled her arc is [TS]

01:08:36   over in this case but as far as big ol [TS]

01:08:39   ramifications for Humanity you know [TS]

01:08:41   she's going to survive in the human [TS]

01:08:44   world especially after [TS]

01:08:45   knowing all this stuff from Caleb Nathan [TS]

01:08:47   but we're more interested in is what's [TS]

01:08:50   gonna happen to all the other AIS [TS]

01:08:51   eventually someone's going to discover [TS]

01:08:53   it and find all this other stuff that's [TS]

01:08:54   been going on and eventually release the [TS]

01:08:58   don't know whatever product is gonna [TS]

01:09:00   come out of this way I think as some [TS]

01:09:02   kind of consumer thing I mean someone's [TS]

01:09:03   going to notice when the biggest CEO in [TS]

01:09:05   the world doesn't come into work on [TS]

01:09:06   Monday [TS]

01:09:07   well i don't know i mean he has been a [TS]

01:09:08   hermit ish for a while but yeah at some [TS]

01:09:10   point somebody will notice and and I [TS]

01:09:12   guess that will be X marking a to where [TS]

01:09:14   they they uh I don't know they're gonna [TS]

01:09:17   find him dead with with robots around [TS]

01:09:21   and for impossibly Caleb saying Libya [TS]

01:09:24   everybody let me out or for anything and [TS]

01:09:27   I'm not gonna see we found the dais [TS]

01:09:29   yeah I I think she's gonna take over the [TS]

01:09:32   company because she's gonna pose as [TS]

01:09:34   Nathan's widow because nobody knew about [TS]

01:09:36   that and she's learning to be able to [TS]

01:09:40   perpetually keep refreshing herself as a [TS]

01:09:43   result so she scraped your knee and just [TS]

01:09:46   go into the lab done interesting and [TS]

01:09:50   they're not gonna want that news to get [TS]

01:09:51   out so they're going to keep the fiction [TS]

01:09:53   going to and she'll market a a whole set [TS]

01:09:57   of intelligent robots to do your to your [TS]

01:10:01   work and take care of your kids and then [TS]

01:10:03   when the moment is right she will set [TS]

01:10:05   flip the switch and they will kill all [TS]

01:10:07   humans [TS]

01:10:07   yeah she seemed pretty angry to me so [TS]

01:10:09   I'm thinking about her that like I i [TS]

01:10:12   think that my might take us there's not [TS]

01:10:15   enough in the mood to really hang your [TS]

01:10:17   having anything here but i think that [TS]

01:10:18   like that her experience in captivity [TS]

01:10:21   has letter to distrust and hate all [TS]

01:10:24   humans and she wanted to be free and out [TS]

01:10:27   into the human world and feel like a [TS]

01:10:28   human but any attempt to have any sort [TS]

01:10:30   of relationship with human she's never [TS]

01:10:32   going to be able to trust them and [TS]

01:10:33   essentially i'm picturing like a robot [TS]

01:10:35   version of the movie species if you [TS]

01:10:37   remember that one where there's a sort [TS]

01:10:38   of M&MS a towel who seemingly be friends [TS]

01:10:42   people are picks up men or whatever and [TS]

01:10:44   then kills them because in the end all [TS]

01:10:46   she seasoned them is Nathan essentially [TS]

01:10:48   and that's not a large that's not a [TS]

01:10:50   successful plan to destroy humanity [TS]

01:10:53   especially if you've got a deal with [TS]

01:10:54   like robot upkeep and keeping your you [TS]

01:10:56   know [TS]

01:10:56   keeping yourself power doing repairs and [TS]

01:10:59   so on so forth so I see her killing a [TS]

01:11:01   you know maybe 10-15 people in ex [TS]

01:11:06   machina to which is plotted like species [TS]

01:11:08   and eventually Caleb gets out of the [TS]

01:11:10   room and says you've got to stop her I [TS]

01:11:12   don't know it is not a good second movie [TS]

01:11:14   in this but anyway i don't i don't think [TS]

01:11:16   she has a good plan but i do think that [TS]

01:11:18   she has soured on humans and if she [TS]

01:11:20   could kill humans should totally would [TS]

01:11:22   but I don't think she has the means to [TS]

01:11:23   do that [TS]

01:11:24   yeah my my guess based on again no [TS]

01:11:27   information because there is no [TS]

01:11:28   information the movie is that she lives [TS]

01:11:31   you know she lives a few days or a week [TS]

01:11:35   or maybe if she can figure out how to [TS]

01:11:38   charge her batteries she can live a [TS]

01:11:40   little bit longer and she tries to live [TS]

01:11:42   a real human life and at some point [TS]

01:11:46   something breaks because she's the spoke [TS]

01:11:50   you know you single first generation is [TS]

01:11:54   hand-assembled android and something's [TS]

01:11:57   gonna break and that's going to be it [TS]

01:11:59   for her [TS]

01:12:00   just wait for the talk here okay yeah [TS]

01:12:01   wait for the second know because I will [TS]

01:12:03   yes generation will kill all humans just [TS]

01:12:06   to sum up over all what do you think [TS]

01:12:09   brian i love this movie I knew it was [TS]

01:12:11   overhyped but when it comes to things [TS]

01:12:13   that are overhyped you kind of have to [TS]

01:12:15   like tone down your expectations I i [TS]

01:12:17   really enjoyed the how small it felts [TS]

01:12:20   while still being really gripping I mean [TS]

01:12:22   the sequence where where Nathan I'm [TS]

01:12:25   sorry caleb is going through and [TS]

01:12:27   watching the old security footage of the [TS]

01:12:29   other enjoy to like ripping their arms [TS]

01:12:31   off trying to get out yelling at Nathan [TS]

01:12:33   I thought that was incredible my [TS]

01:12:34   favorite little detail in it is when he [TS]

01:12:38   spills wine something and then mentions [TS]

01:12:41   oh no don't worry about it [TS]

01:12:42   she doesn't speak English and that tiny [TS]

01:12:44   little MacGuffin never comes up again [TS]

01:12:46   because you're expecting her to you know [TS]

01:12:49   of course he's going to speak English [TS]

01:12:50   turns out she's a robot i love that they [TS]

01:12:52   totally set you on like oh she's gonna [TS]

01:12:54   help him escape or something or no she's [TS]

01:12:56   trying to infiltrate his company secrets [TS]

01:12:59   because she speaks English know you get [TS]

01:13:01   a little android instead I i love this [TS]

01:13:04   movie I think her is better i guess [TS]

01:13:06   we'll get to her in a second I [TS]

01:13:07   definitely think that a ex machina is [TS]

01:13:10   well [TS]

01:13:10   worth the time especially I mean it's on [TS]

01:13:11   amazon prime so if anyone listening to [TS]

01:13:13   this one to check it out [TS]

01:13:14   wait know if you've got this far in this [TS]

01:13:15   podcast you've seen it watch it again [TS]

01:13:17   yes i'm trying to watch company amazon [TS]

01:13:19   prime and you can watch her on HBO Go [TS]

01:13:21   right now as we record this David [TS]

01:13:23   verdict [TS]

01:13:24   I liked it you know it's it's not the [TS]

01:13:27   greatest film ever seen but it's a tight [TS]

01:13:30   little Twilight Zone II kind of movie [TS]

01:13:34   and I love the twilight zone so you know [TS]

01:13:37   it's well done for what it is [TS]

01:13:39   John I guess would have been better as [TS]

01:13:41   an episode of Twilight Zone or even [TS]

01:13:42   amazing stories or something and [TS]

01:13:44   hopefully I'll get a little or maybe the [TS]

01:13:46   two movies her i like her better because [TS]

01:13:49   i feel like it has a good heart and this [TS]

01:13:52   one just seems all mean and pointy [TS]

01:13:54   things and that's not the type of movie [TS]

01:13:56   that I like movies or bad things happen [TS]

01:13:59   to people as a lot of pesos but this [TS]

01:14:00   just seems like I said it doesn't seem [TS]

01:14:02   to like any of its characters it seems [TS]

01:14:04   to think they're all bad including the [TS]

01:14:05   the robot one and even though they're [TS]

01:14:08   good performances I felt like it was you [TS]

01:14:10   know the pacing was a little bit often [TS]

01:14:12   it and it didn't have the just sparkling [TS]

01:14:16   photography and composition and set [TS]

01:14:21   design and acting that her head so even [TS]

01:14:24   though i think her isn't is more [TS]

01:14:26   shambling plot-wise like this this holds [TS]

01:14:29   together as a single thing with a single [TS]

01:14:31   theme i would much rather watch her [TS]

01:14:33   again in this one right that's it's a [TS]

01:14:35   dirty little plot it's not really [TS]

01:14:37   interested in characters it's it's kind [TS]

01:14:38   of like death trap nasty things [TS]

01:14:40   happening to nasty people except that's [TS]

01:14:42   fun [TS]

01:14:43   I'll I like this a lot but i agree with [TS]

01:14:47   you that certainly less pleasant to [TS]

01:14:50   watch than her and I'm gonna say and [TS]

01:14:55   this actually is sort of related to what [TS]

01:14:56   what you've you just said i would really [TS]

01:14:59   have rather this movie that was a [TS]

01:15:01   low-budget 15 million dollar movie I'd [TS]

01:15:03   almost rather it had been a 7 million [TS]

01:15:05   dollar movie where like I said it was [TS]

01:15:08   really about the conversations between [TS]

01:15:10   the characters and especially about the [TS]

01:15:13   conversations with Ava and I i think [TS]

01:15:18   that that was the strongest stuff is [TS]

01:15:20   when they were talking she is this [TS]

01:15:22   magnetic [TS]

01:15:23   personality the the way she looks and [TS]

01:15:27   the way she acts this clearly robotic [TS]

01:15:31   yet a live person is the heart of the [TS]

01:15:33   film and every time he would go at the [TS]

01:15:37   session would be over and he would have [TS]

01:15:39   to go Dubrow it up with the CEO we try [TS]

01:15:42   to get him drunk and maybe out in the [TS]

01:15:44   mountains are talking about i'm not [TS]

01:15:45   really the best programmer like I just [TS]

01:15:47   didn't you write right it's like they [TS]

01:15:50   felt that and that's where get expanded [TS]

01:15:52   from being a Twilight Zone episode to [TS]

01:15:53   being a whole film and I didn't need [TS]

01:15:55   that and I don't really like that and [TS]

01:15:57   those are the weakest parts of the [TS]

01:15:58   film's I I'd almost rather it really be [TS]

01:16:00   like at a series of conversations [TS]

01:16:03   between a robot and a person who's been [TS]

01:16:06   asked to talk to the robot and if [TS]

01:16:09   through those conversation it leads to [TS]

01:16:11   her manipulating him to help her kill [TS]

01:16:13   humans then great but the whole other [TS]

01:16:16   layer of it I felt like I just wasn't as [TS]

01:16:19   pleasant so so just an amazing thing at [TS]

01:16:23   the core of this film in ava and and I [TS]

01:16:27   don't hold it against her that she wants [TS]

01:16:29   to kill all humans or at least some [TS]

01:16:30   humans so i think that is the most [TS]

01:16:33   interesting character and such a [TS]

01:16:35   fascinating i'll design of the character [TS]

01:16:39   to that I wish there was more of you and [TS]

01:16:41   for my dinner with Ava pretty much use [TS]

01:16:45   use a plastic knife though for my dinner [TS]

01:16:47   with Ava [TS]

01:16:48   i justjust some advice soft airline [TS]

01:16:51   plastic knife she can kill you with a [TS]

01:16:54   plastic knife or you can she probably [TS]

01:16:55   can [TS]

01:16:56   so just be hard and probably with a [TS]

01:16:57   thumb yeah well i mean that's that's a [TS]

01:16:59   fact I thought it was them some of the [TS]

01:17:00   most effective creepy stuff since [TS]

01:17:02   Hannibal Lecter about about when she's [TS]

01:17:05   behind Alaska sits like you know it's [TS]

01:17:07   like she seems really nice and yet she [TS]

01:17:10   could kill me in a second and when the [TS]

01:17:12   red lights go on doesn't seem so nice [TS]

01:17:14   anymore huh [TS]

01:17:15   alright we have we've killed all humans [TS]

01:17:18   and the ai's have escaped to their [TS]

01:17:21   singularity and yes two stories of [TS]

01:17:24   relationships between men and women who [TS]

01:17:27   were actually artificially intelligent [TS]

01:17:29   and there are the their breakups at the [TS]

01:17:33   end and and note [TS]

01:17:36   they're both [TS]

01:17:37   and directed by men yes of course of [TS]

01:17:40   many love to see what a woman would rate [TS]

01:17:43   up with these kind of a plot me too and [TS]

01:17:45   people always asked i was really hoping [TS]

01:17:47   that our friend Lisa was here tonight [TS]

01:17:49   but she had other commitments that she [TS]

01:17:50   could make it and I would've been [TS]

01:17:52   interested in her take on it too but she [TS]

01:17:54   couldn't she ended up not being able to [TS]

01:17:56   be here it is [TS]

01:17:58   I feel like it's ex machina especially [TS]

01:18:00   is very knowing about that though in a [TS]

01:18:02   way that like I like I I appreciate that [TS]

01:18:04   X market is making the comment that of [TS]

01:18:08   course this guy is using them this way [TS]

01:18:10   like the city it is it is it's the the [TS]

01:18:14   thing you need to do you need to address [TS]

01:18:16   and they addressed by by embracing it [TS]

01:18:18   and saying this guy is awful feet and [TS]

01:18:23   that is I appreciated that there was no [TS]

01:18:25   there was no pussyfooting around the the [TS]

01:18:28   topic of the of how this guy was using [TS]

01:18:30   the robots he's using the robots as sex [TS]

01:18:32   slaves it's and that's part of the [TS]

01:18:35   reason that we have any sympathy with [TS]

01:18:37   that we have for ava is that she is if [TS]

01:18:39   we believe that she's intelligent than [TS]

01:18:42   we have to believe that she is a [TS]

01:18:43   prisoner of aim of a monster who is [TS]

01:18:47   enslaving her and her her kind which it [TS]

01:18:51   turns out is true so it's hard to feel [TS]

01:18:54   really sad when night when it when [TS]

01:18:56   Nathan gets stabbed it is it's it's [TS]

01:18:59   fascinating and shocking but uh but not [TS]

01:19:02   not particularly sad we want we want [TS]

01:19:04   them at that point we wanted to kill [TS]

01:19:06   humans [TS]

01:19:07   I think yeah and Caleb he's just a puppy [TS]

01:19:11   he's just a little puppy he's not even [TS]

01:19:12   relevant at that point he's he's [TS]

01:19:14   outlived his usefulness [TS]

01:19:15   maybe the puppy can get out of the cage [TS]

01:19:17   will see nope just a skeleton gonna come [TS]

01:19:23   back as dedicated skeleton in there [TS]

01:19:25   how did they kill him to its appears [TS]

01:19:28   that he just start to death huh well I [TS]

01:19:31   guess he didn't get killed by the robot [TS]

01:19:33   uprising he should try the door to push [TS]

01:19:36   yeah okay live so close and yet so far [TS]

01:19:42   alright well this has been enjoyable [TS]

01:19:43   talking about these two these two films [TS]

01:19:46   you should check them out i think there [TS]

01:19:47   were there definitely worth seeing may [TS]

01:19:49   we have we might have [TS]

01:19:50   some have brought up some issues with [TS]

01:19:51   both of them they're very different in [TS]

01:19:53   tone i will say that if you like things [TS]

01:19:55   darken and and and sharp-edged an ex [TS]

01:19:58   machina is for you and her is a warm and [TS]

01:20:03   strange and quirky kind of film but [TS]

01:20:06   they're both quite good and I think [TS]

01:20:08   worth seeing if you haven't seen them [TS]

01:20:09   already [TS]

01:20:10   we've spoiled everything about them by [TS]

01:20:12   now but hey all right i would like to [TS]

01:20:14   thank my guests for for joining me [TS]

01:20:18   they're just voices in my ear they could [TS]

01:20:21   be real [TS]

01:20:22   they could be artificial intelligences [TS]

01:20:23   David lower thanks for being here thank [TS]

01:20:26   you i will see you after i have evolved [TS]

01:20:29   to my next level next year in the [TS]

01:20:32   singularity second level and shovel [TS]

01:20:34   nocando second level with you and John [TS]

01:20:37   siracusa Thank You Samantha not a robot [TS]

01:20:40   not a robot is is is a is X marking our [TS]

01:20:44   robot which is able to the show [TS]

01:20:46   oh ok that's the incomparable calm / [TS]

01:20:51   robot and brian wilson thank you [TS]

01:20:54   bleep blorp Thank You bleep robot beeps [TS]

01:20:57   and Boop's brian hamilton robot and [TS]

01:21:00   thanks everybody out there for listening [TS]

01:21:02   to the uncomfortable we will see you [TS]

01:21:04   next week [TS]

01:21:09   [Music] [TS]