The Incomparable

272: Laid a Lot of Foundations

 

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  subscription today the incomparable [TS]

  number 272 November 2015 welcome back [TS]

  everybody to the comfortable i'm your [TS]

  host Jason smell were here [TS]

  I'm convening a special episode of our [TS]

  book club series as was foretold in our [TS]

  fifth anniversary episode in the middle [TS]

  of that episode our good pal mr. Scott [TS]

  McNulty I believe suggested we could go [TS]

  back into a classic science fiction [TS]

  novel for book club like foundation or [TS]

  something like that and i always am [TS]

  trying to find new topics because we're [TS]

  getting up toward episode 304 that was a [TS]

  great idea and so here we are to talk [TS]

  about the foundation trilogy and i'm [TS]

  going to specify that the three original [TS]

  foundation books that are actually not [TS]

  really novels even but collections of [TS]

  short stories that are all [TS]

  interconnected and it's it's a strange [TS]

  little thing written by isaac asimov [TS]

  between 1942 and 1950 and collected in [TS]

  three volumes in the fifties in 51 52 [TS]

  and 53 joining me to talk about the [TS]

  future history of the galaxy in the fall [TS]

  of the Galactic Empire and things like [TS]

  that of course the originator of this he [TS]

  didn't lend a second definition is here [TS]

  even after he suggested it [TS]

  it's got McNulty hi Scott this is all [TS]

  going according to my plan right you're [TS]

  going to just hang up on us and laugh [TS]

  and laugh and laugh no you just finished [TS]

  rereading them all in [TS]

  you're fine high quality leather bound [TS]

  paper volume of foundations true it's [TS]

  it's I'm holding it in my hands right [TS]

  now it's a little mazing i love the tome [TS]

  although i did find in the knowing typo [TS]

  where they used an exclamation point in [TS]

  7l so that annoyed me but i matter so [TS]

  they must like a folksy artist or [TS]

  something in order to probably create [TS]

  the new one [TS]

  well it's a leather-bound mistake so [TS]

  there's that [TS]

  also joining us David lower hello hello [TS]

  there [TS]

  I I foresaw this about a thousand years [TS]

  ago and remember in fact in the American [TS]

  equivalent of Trent or ok which is [TS]

  Indiana yeah middle of nowhere at [TS]

  America's end that's right i also [TS]

  joining us erica and Simon who was [TS]

  present when Scott foretold as was David [TS]

  when it's got four told that we would do [TS]

  this episode hello [TS]

  I was indeed d'Epinay I think I'm here [TS]

  to represent all of the females in this [TS]

  in this series which is actually pretty [TS]

  easy so i probably easy job Thomas [TS]

  sounds like you know 20 seconds really [TS]

  yeah we'll get the magical it and my [TS]

  last guest a mutant who is hammered with [TS]

  the ability to control emotions and [TS]

  plots it's Monty Ashley hello I'm just [TS]

  going to behave randomly and assume that [TS]

  this was predicted to be the right thing [TS]

  for me to do good excellent 14 usual [TS]

  right plot solved [TS]

  that's Monty standard and strategy for [TS]

  the impalpable well so foundation III [TS]

  heard I had a friend in elementary [TS]

  school in high school who kept who [TS]

  endlessly talked about death the [TS]

  foundation novels and I didn't read them [TS]

  until maybe 10 years ago not not a long [TS]

  time ago [TS]

  yeah I know it's amazing i didn't get [TS]

  spoiled i don't know if they're hit it [TS]

  was always sure but what's fascinating [TS]

  about i did read irobot when i was when [TS]

  i was younger and and it strikes me that [TS]

  this is this is from this period of time [TS]

  and not just because it's as a month but [TS]

  also because of them the market for [TS]

  science fiction at this point that a lot [TS]

  of these stories were being told in [TS]

  short story form essentially in various [TS]

  pulp magazines at the time and then [TS]

  collected into books later and so things [TS]

  that we think of as books or novels are [TS]

  not that like I robot is a [TS]

  action of somewhat interlinked short [TS]

  stories and the Foundation series you [TS]

  could view it as a trilogy you could [TS]

  view it as a series of short stories or [TS]

  you could view it as sort of like one [TS]

  big story told in these kind of [TS]

  disparate parts but one of the reasons I [TS]

  felt pretty comfortable taking these [TS]

  three original books and talking about [TS]

  them here is that you know really this [TS]

  is the this even though he wrote sequels [TS]

  and prequels later [TS]

  these are the books these are the [TS]

  stories that as mobs has not told in a [TS]

  short period of time and that their [TS]

  interest rate timeline and this is the [TS]

  tale he wanted to tell about this sort [TS]

  of galactic future history thing so they [TS]

  don't and they do it doesn't feel like a [TS]

  novel it is a weird kind of reading [TS]

  experience I don't know I ki thought [TS]

  that I came to it later but not nearly [TS]

  his ladies you too Jason [TS]

  yeah oh yeah because I i read a lot of [TS]

  asthma when I was younger it was more of [TS]

  his his really early stuff like pebble [TS]

  in the sky and the stars like dust so [TS]

  like really it is earliest novels and I [TS]

  heard people talk about the foundation [TS]

  just like you had but sort of never got [TS]

  around to it until I mean was probably [TS]

  high school or college so you know still [TS]

  still lots of years ago but no later [TS]

  than his other stuff and and I had not [TS]

  known that they were collected developed [TS]

  short stories etc etc so it felt really [TS]

  disjointed to me i was expecting it to [TS]

  be more like one of his novels and I [TS]

  think the first time I went through it i [TS]

  had real trouble with it simply because [TS]

  I was not expecting that kind of format [TS]

  and you know I wanted to get in touch [TS]

  with the characters and then suddenly [TS]

  they were gone and it was somebody else [TS]

  and it has been many pages like what's [TS]

  going on so that was my experience I [TS]

  guess that the part of telling this [TS]

  galactic scope I mean that the premise [TS]

  here is that is that there's a Galactic [TS]

  Empire spans the the Milky Way galaxy [TS]

  and this guy Hari Seldon / foretells [TS]

  that the the Empire is in decay and it's [TS]

  going to fall in there will be a dark [TS]

  age that will last tens of thousands of [TS]

  families but every thousand years that's [TS]

  when I was a ok if you want to be [TS]

  specific i was something more dramatic [TS]

  tens of thousands of years and five is [TS]

  very specifically dark looks [TS]

  yes and he knows everything that will [TS]

  happen during [TS]

  entire tire indeed it but he says I have [TS]

  a plan that will allow this dark age to [TS]

  be reduced to only a thousand years tens [TS]

  of hundreds and indeed a ten hundred [TS]

  years with exactly and uh and and then a [TS]

  new galactic empire will rise [TS]

  yay i guess because and in the parallel [TS]

  here is with the fall of Rome and you [TS]

  know I it's all in there but I feel like [TS]

  one of the the things about the scope of [TS]

  this galaxy spanning and the time frame [TS]

  is that it's gonna destroy he wants to [TS]

  tell it's going to be chopped up i mean [TS]

  there are there are stories that [TS]

  continue characters like the mule we see [TS]

  a couple of times but really it's like [TS]

  the sweep of history like you know you [TS]

  get to know some characters and then the [TS]

  next door it's like oh yeah that was 50 [TS]

  years ago they're all dead and like all [TS]

  right I guess that's what this is about [TS]

  because it is this disc could not be a [TS]

  broader canvas in terms of space and [TS]

  time [TS]

  well as mouth was never that interested [TS]

  in his characters as people with [TS]

  emotions or goals and I feel like this [TS]

  is the ultimate expression of that [TS]

  totally there's one scene where where [TS]

  you get a room where there's people like [TS]

  five or six people in the room talking [TS]

  you don't find out any of their names [TS]

  except for one guy and I'm not even i'm [TS]

  not even talking about the second [TS]

  founder foundation stuff yet it's just [TS]

  these are these are active players in [TS]

  the first foundation and you don't get [TS]

  any information about them except for [TS]

  you no one has a thin face one has a [TS]

  slightly wider face i was like wow this [TS]

  is this is the perfect passage to [TS]

  illustrate his feeling on [TS]

  characterization because there was [TS]

  nothing as soon as they fulfill their [TS]

  duty to the plot [TS]

  they just drop out immediately had this [TS]

  is accountable school because i read a [TS]

  we did that retro Hugo's episode I read [TS]

  something that one of the one of the e [TS]

  doc smith yank books [TS]

  yeah and it reminded me of this to which [TS]

  is there are some characters when [TS]

  necessary and they might not be [TS]

  particularly fleshed out as we think of [TS]

  it is sort of in modern fiction but the [TS]

  ideas are there about again these big [TS]

  ideas like galaxy-spanning ideas and the [TS]

  characters are a little bit less of a [TS]

  focus and they come and go and and again [TS]

  if you pulled all the way back to see [TS]

  the whole galaxy over the course of [TS]

  hundreds if not thousands years the [TS]

  individual people do sort of get lost in [TS]

  the you know they're like they're like [TS]

  ants they look like ants from up here [TS]

  something like something like that when [TS]

  and the thrust of what psychohistory [TS]

  right which is a very big component of [TS]

  this series is that the individual [TS]

  doesn't matter unless you're a mutant or [TS]

  harris Eldon or Harry something he's the [TS]

  one that matters so you can see I mean I [TS]

  obviously as I've read other of his [TS]

  books that do not have that as a thrust [TS]

  and the characters are equally as thin [TS]

  so I'm not going to try and say that [TS]

  that was some kind of writer Lee device [TS]

  tcp did but I can imagine writing a term [TS]

  paper that argues that [TS]

  sure sure I mean you could you could [TS]

  definitely make that argument it is it [TS]

  is an interesting premise here right [TS]

  that the idea here again going to the [TS]

  the fall of Rome and all of that is that [TS]

  this is all this is all fated to happen [TS]

  he foresees it and it's sort of like [TS]

  making making the best of a bad [TS]

  situation in some ways it's like being a [TS]

  look I'm getting I'm getting you down [TS]

  from 30 thousand two-one thousand that's [TS]

  pretty good right i mean we'll all be [TS]

  dead before it happens but we can we can [TS]

  do this it's a little bit altruistic [TS]

  it's and it's and it's definitely people [TS]

  have had this some reaction to the [TS]

  series i think because of this this big [TS]

  idea that we're going to create these [TS]

  you know secret secret organizations [TS]

  that are going to save humanity because [TS]

  if you look at our if you look at our [TS]

  past at that there is a period of time [TS]

  that again it depends on your [TS]

  perspective but in if you look at [TS]

  european history there's this sort of [TS]

  general feeling like european history [TS]

  has a giant hole in it for a while [TS]

  because growing fell and then there's [TS]

  the Renaissance and in between everybody [TS]

  was kind of modeling around and there [TS]

  was a lot of lost information and some [TS]

  of that is a little oversold i think but [TS]

  you know that that is influencing this [TS]

  whole story here and so that that's an [TS]

  interesting aspect of the story [TS]

  Scott why don't we start with you since [TS]

  you just reread all of this stuff what [TS]

  what what struck you in rereading at the [TS]

  this is I i'm having a hard time trying [TS]

  to figure out how to get into this [TS]

  because it is a series of short stories [TS]

  that are in the link set in this big [TS]

  idea of psychohistory and [TS]

  galaxy-spanning stop so what struck you [TS]

  when you read about this [TS]

  well I we were just talking before we [TS]

  started recording that Jason you had [TS]

  recently read ancillary mercy and i [TS]

  finished ancillary mercy and then I [TS]

  started rereading the foundation trilogy [TS]

  haha which is an interesting [TS]

  juxtaposition of books because ancillary [TS]

  mercy i think i won't say if I think [TS]

  it's good or bad [TS]

  although i think it's good wait wait [TS]

  wait [TS]

  spoiler alert that's not how that works [TS]

  for me to Scott but it's a secret don't [TS]

  tell anybody what who is a lot of things [TS]

  happen in it but it is you know [TS]

  obviously a very modern science fiction [TS]

  book it is dealing with big ideas but [TS]

  it's doing it in a very modern way and [TS]

  then it you know looking at a book or [TS]

  series of short stories that was written [TS]

  70 years ago doing basically painting on [TS]

  the same canvas right galaxy-spanning [TS]

  stuff is happening but it's handled in a [TS]

  very very different way and yet i still [TS]

  thought as i was reading it it didn't [TS]

  obviously it is a work of its time and I [TS]

  was looking I was trying to keep track [TS]

  of all the female characters as i read [TS]

  the first hundred pages and 0 is easy to [TS]

  keep track of so yeah so I thought that [TS]

  was interesting i also thought I was a [TS]

  reading it that any of the characters [TS]

  could have been male or female because [TS]

  it doesn't really matter so if you want [TS]

  to and they're working on like a TV [TS]

  series of this i think which I don't [TS]

  understand how they're going to do that [TS]

  but I imagine they're going to make a [TS]

  lot more characters within I hope [TS]

  there's a lot of 40 and 50 science [TS]

  fiction that is men standing around in [TS]

  room smoking cigars having conversation [TS]

  yes and this this is of that ilk and yet [TS]

  I I have very fond memories of reading [TS]

  this when I was in high school and i [TS]

  still i reread it and I still think it's [TS]

  fantastic and it is still blew my mind [TS]

  that this man 70 years ago thought of [TS]

  these crazy things and so much [TS]

  the of what we know of science fiction [TS]

  has been built on the similar concepts [TS]

  that is enough invented them by himself [TS]

  but he certainly laid a lot of [TS]

  foundations uh for modern science [TS]

  fiction and and when you look at this [TS]

  work in that context I feel like you [TS]

  can't miss the importance of it and if [TS]

  you look at if you're looking at it and [TS]

  trying to see it as a modern science [TS]

  fiction story there are many things that [TS]

  does wrong but when you I feel like when [TS]

  you look at it in context it's just an [TS]

  amazing piece of work and then thats [TS]

  that's what i think it's interesting [TS]

  from a modern context I think you could [TS]

  look at at this and say it's like raw [TS]

  material for not just these what eight [TS]

  or ten short stories it's like raw [TS]

  material for hundreds of novice like you [TS]

  could take you could write a modern [TS]

  science fiction novel based on like five [TS]

  pages of the foundation books because it [TS]

  and there's a little like how comic [TS]

  books used to tell a complete story in [TS]

  one you know part of an issue that goes [TS]

  for like 16 pages and now that same [TS]

  story gets told over a tissues because [TS]

  everything is decompressed but it's but [TS]

  in modern a lot of modern fiction i feel [TS]

  like you know you end up spending more [TS]

  time with the characters which again was [TS]

  sort of not the point of this it was [TS]

  more about the ideas something like the [TS]

  ancillary series is you know it's about [TS]

  a star empire but it's not about the end [TS]

  and about a cover eyes and fall of power [TS]

  but it is this zoomed in close on some [TS]

  of the characters and how it affects [TS]

  them and and I you know I do think you [TS]

  could you could randomly that could be a [TS]

  new podcast where you just take five [TS]

  pages of of a foundation and described [TS]

  by science fiction novels that could [TS]

  come out in it but i think that i think [TS]

  that that is that that is part of it is [TS]

  that it's it's it's not like what we [TS]

  read now but the ideas are huge and [TS]

  interesting it's just you know it today [TS]

  it would read like a like a pitch for an [TS]

  outline or something more than a an [TS]

  actual story [TS]

  yes it's true and I seem to remember [TS]

  thinking to myself about as you guys [TS]

  enough that he had a lot of great ideas [TS]

  but he wasn't the world's greatest [TS]

  writer or or you know stylists yeah but [TS]

  I've read a few passages in this book [TS]

  and I was just struck at how beautifully [TS]

  he describes generally plan [TS]

  it's not he doesn't bother with people [TS]

  generally but and maybe like you know [TS]

  air cars and things and there are some [TS]

  you know very well done pieces of pros [TS]

  work in here [TS]

  of course they're hundred pages of [TS]

  exposition and people standing around [TS]

  rooms we know he's a storyteller and hit [TS]

  the point of his story is the big [TS]

  picture more than it's the character [TS]

  directly [TS]

  yeah Erica what do you think the the [TS]

  appeal of these stories is all this time [TS]

  because God said this is these these [TS]

  were written in the forties and people [TS]

  still talk about them and cite them i [TS]

  mean they're they're considered classics [TS]

  what what is it that strikes you that [TS]

  makes these things be things we still [TS]

  read today even other than because the [TS]

  podcast is that haha that's a common one [TS]

  butt brother [TS]

  well yeah the most common perhaps for I [TS]

  think like i said i had trouble with it [TS]

  the first time I read it but then when I [TS]

  went back to it afterwards I was that it [TS]

  hit me much better because I kind of [TS]

  knew what to expect format wise and I [TS]

  think one of the things that these that [TS]

  draws people back to these books just [TS]

  sort of the audacity of it like he has [TS]

  created this I mean super super huge [TS]

  time spanning story and it's not just [TS]

  the fact that spending a lot of time [TS]

  because there are many books and series [TS]

  of books out there that you know give [TS]

  you the whole history of our family or [TS]

  something like that but this is actually [TS]

  up one person at the beginning of it [TS]

  maps out all of these events and is [TS]

  supposedly i'm predicting everything [TS]

  that's going to happen and having this [TS]

  great plan in place and I think that I [TS]

  mean that's the kind of thing that you [TS]

  have to either get on board with at the [TS]

  beginning or you're really really not [TS]

  going to enjoy these books at all [TS]

  I which i think is probably the complete [TS]

  that I've heard from some people who [TS]

  just cant get their head around that be [TS]

  like oh that's just a stupid idea [TS]

  well then I point out all the flying [TS]

  cars and all that kind of stuff and well [TS]

  you know what I'm willing to I'm willing [TS]

  to go along with that [TS]

  so once you jump on board with that [TS]

  premise it's it's kind of fascinating to [TS]

  just see how it plays itself out and one [TS]

  thing that I find in a lot of Isaac [TS]

  gasps moans work is I mean I get the [TS]

  impression that he is just as delighted [TS]

  as the reader is if not more so with how [TS]

  clever he is and how much you know [TS]

  he is able to you know tie things up in [TS]

  a neat little bow and I you know we [TS]

  don't get a lot of character development [TS]

  but we awfully get an awful lot of [TS]

  characters speaking at the end of each [TS]

  story to explain how clever they were I [TS]

  am how how well they did things and I [TS]

  mean at this stage in my life I think [TS]

  that is less exciting to me than it was [TS]

  when i first came to the Foundation [TS]

  series and many of his other works so [TS]

  that was something that I just grabbed [TS]

  onto really tightly and enjoyed the the [TS]

  the mystery aspect of it and having [TS]

  having the the twist explain at the end [TS]

  because i never ever kind of saw that [TS]

  sort of stuff coming it just wasn't good [TS]

  at that so I think that's one of the [TS]

  things especially for someone like me [TS]

  who came to it that a fairly decent age [TS]

  or if you came to even younger than most [TS]

  of the people that I knew who had talked [TS]

  about it had read in like you know [TS]

  elementary school or junior high or [TS]

  something like that so i would say [TS]

  audacity is sort of music [TS]

  the big thing time for a break for me to [TS]

  tell you about our sponsor this week [TS]

  it's a lootcrate would you classify [TS]

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  sponsoring the incomparable Erica to [TS]

  your point about Isaac being fond of his [TS]

  own cleverness i will say that i have [TS]

  here on my bookshelf as a mom's [TS]

  annotated gilbert and sullivan and [TS]

  original interpretation of the rules [TS]

  best-loved light opera by Isaac Asimov [TS]

  and it's over a thousand pages long [TS]

  yeah because he decided to annotate all [TS]

  of gilbert and sullivan just so everyone [TS]

  would know all the things he knows about [TS]

  light opera see did that would be a [TS]

  tumblr [TS]

  yeah but you know he's smart guy and as [TS]

  you and he could get a book contract and [TS]

  say I have opinions about the things [TS]

  that I like and my concern them out he [TS]

  certainly could get a book contract he [TS]

  even stopped writing so now hundreds [TS]

  hundreds of do it [TS]

  Erica you mentioned that you mentioned [TS]

  the way these many of these stories ends [TS]

  the the one where it's sort of like the [TS]

  fate of the mule and what happens to the [TS]

  mule and in second foundation that that [TS]

  literally ends with like 10 pages of now [TS]

  i know that you know you know that I [TS]

  know that you know that I know but did [TS]

  you know that I know that he knew that [TS]

  you knew that I knew that you know and [TS]

  at some point somebody's head almost [TS]

  literally explodes with these the chain [TS]

  of logic that happens and it's kind of [TS]

  funny and yet at the same time you're [TS]

  like come on it did take me a little i [TS]

  had to reread a couple of passages to to [TS]

  sort of make sure that I was following [TS]

  the lines of those logic so and and you [TS]

  know everything that he laid out was [TS]

  corrected just it it was so intricate [TS]

  that I had to reread it but I do agree [TS]

  with Scott there there are a decent [TS]

  number of you know kind of beautiful [TS]

  passages in here since I was reading on [TS]

  my kindle for the first time I thought [TS]

  that the foundation was one of the books [TS]

  that i had brought along with me when i [TS]

  moved i had a nice hardcover copy but [TS]

  apparently that was not the case because [TS]

  it was big and heavy [TS]

  but so i just bought everything for my [TS]

  kindle and was highlighting messages and [TS]

  i actually found something i really [TS]

  liked so so gay azimoff yeah I i think i [TS]

  think that he was a very talented writer [TS]

  i wrote up and i read a biography of his [TS]

  and wrote a whole like term paper about [TS]

  him in high school I mean he's he's a [TS]

  fascinating writer [TS]

  yes i did all that without having [TS]

  foundation mm-hmm i know i know it was a [TS]

  monster [TS]

  yeah well I just say it had been [TS]

  overhyped to me I had to I had to wait [TS]

  I'd wait a fascinating guy but yeah just [TS]

  keep their stuff that interested him and [TS]

  it was often that audacity is that big [TS]

  picture like hairy cells in himself who [TS]

  Isaac Asimov had a vision for a thousand [TS]

  years of galactic history that he wanted [TS]

  to to to share with us [TS]

  I don't think he actually did have that [TS]

  vision which is what my hobby dividers [TS]

  like people kept saying well what [TS]

  happened next [TS]

  ok then his answer was normally I don't [TS]

  know it all worked out somehow figure it [TS]

  out yourself kids wait till i come up [TS]

  with the next novella how about if [TS]

  there's a mutiny was writing all the [TS]

  sequels and connecting everything up a [TS]

  part of the reason he then went [TS]

  backwards and started writing prequels [TS]

  was because he said I have no idea what [TS]

  comes next [TS]

  i was reading something about how he [TS]

  didn't even really like a foundation all [TS]

  that much after he wrote it but someone [TS]

  they were like you need to write a [TS]

  sequel and he was like but there's a [TS]

  plan and it's going to work out how [TS]

  about a mutant basically what Jason said [TS]

  and we'll figure out a way you gotta put [TS]

  up throw a wrench in the works I you [TS]

  could you can actually if you think [TS]

  about it it's like okay I need to read [TS]

  more of these because people like them [TS]

  but the whole point is that Hari [TS]

  Seldon's plan is going to come off and [TS]

  it's going to bring about the new empire [TS]

  in a thousand years and and so how do i [TS]

  get more mileage out of this and that [TS]

  was you [TS]

  I'm sure he just went through the [TS]

  process of what if there was something [TS]

  unexpected [TS]

  what would that be maybe it's a mutant [TS]

  who has powers who is going to although [TS]

  even then I kind of thought in the end I [TS]

  i was skeptical about whether the mule [TS]

  could really I mean I I felt it was kind [TS]

  of faded like you know we got this under [TS]

  control there might be a mutant at some [TS]

  point it's gonna work out it'll all work [TS]

  out I can hated the idea [TS]

  that the reason this particular mutant [TS]

  wanted to go on such a rampage [TS]

  throughout the universe of revenge is [TS]

  because he looked weird and felt really [TS]

  bad about that I hate the idea that this [TS]

  many you know millennia in the future [TS]

  people are still coming to be judged so [TS]

  much on their appearance that they [TS]

  decide to have you know the bloodlust to [TS]

  take over the entire galaxy [TS]

  to be fair he looked kind of stupid they [TS]

  were bringing televisions to farmers in [TS]

  the far future I thought that was a [TS]

  funny little touch and one of them is [TS]

  the technology overall is very [TS]

  interesting i mean it's it's so clear [TS]

  when these books were written [TS]

  he's got a lot of far future ideas but [TS]

  everybody is still smoking like he [TS]

  couldn't picture a time and smoking what [TS]

  is the thing people did your paper [TS]

  everything's right on paper their x-rays [TS]

  were nuclear that's what I love about [TS]

  pulp stories from this era is you've got [TS]

  people who show up in spaceships and the [TS]

  step out and talk exactly like nineteen [TS]

  thirties gangsters it's great there's [TS]

  the dictation machine in the last story [TS]

  in in second foundation where she's [TS]

  reading she dictates it and it writes [TS]

  things out in longhand in pen on paper [TS]

  and I thought that's just so strange but [TS]

  you know again you don't know things you [TS]

  imagine about the future and the things [TS]

  you don't and also the argument that [TS]

  science fiction is really about you know [TS]

  the time in which it's written and you [TS]

  want them to be recognizable characters [TS]

  and science fiction that pushes those [TS]

  boundaries and makes it like here's what [TS]

  people will really be like 500 years or [TS]

  a thousand years from now are probably [TS]

  not going to be things that are even [TS]

  comprehensible and probably very [TS]

  challenging you know he's telling a row [TS]

  malagori here to be fair i mean when i [TS]

  first read these books might probably [TS]

  like early nineties at that time we [TS]

  weren't in the position that we are now [TS]

  some most of those things didn't seem [TS]

  that far-fetched the idea of everybody's [TS]

  smoking was still not it's still not [TS]

  that weird [TS]

  the idea of everything still being on [TS]

  paper completely made sense so I'm sure [TS]

  when i was first reading it I like heard [TS]

  about that dictation machine was like oh [TS]

  man I want one [TS]

  whereas now I'm like oh that would be [TS]

  clunky and terrible but it would still [TS]

  be kind of awesome [TS]

  well apparently can make the paper smell [TS]

  good too so you something well you know [TS]

  if your girl [TS]

  right there are girls in his book a [TS]

  couple in a few so I like the first the [TS]

  beginning parts of the foundation story [TS]

  when it's all about Harry Seldon [TS]

  predicted exactly this and this guy [TS]

  gotta make up an encyclopedia but it's [TS]

  not really what it's about [TS]

  yeah and somebody needs to figure out [TS]

  how to get through this particular thing [TS]

  I am less interested in it when it [TS]

  turned into a hunt for the second [TS]

  foundation and also the second [TS]

  foundation is actually rigging [TS]

  everything all the time so area Sultan [TS]

  wasn't even that clever to begin with [TS]

  yeah yeah I i agree i think the mule is [TS]

  an interesting thing where it is quite a [TS]

  gambit on his part to have this [TS]

  character and broken across the the two [TS]

  books to which is interesting like it [TS]

  gives it sort of a cliffhanger kind of [TS]

  feel to it which is kind of interesting [TS]

  for things that are generally not [TS]

  connected to each other but they're [TS]

  there are a lot of these that that are [TS]

  are more i would say yeah they're more [TS]

  they're more uninteresting once that the [TS]

  the most audacious stuff is at the [TS]

  beginning which is that you're watching [TS]

  you're watching time go ahead i love [TS]

  that there's the there's the hologram [TS]

  machine that just pops up and hairy [TS]

  cells and gives like more facts about [TS]

  how his plan is progressing because he's [TS]

  figured it all out you know early on [TS]

  that that's kind of that's kind of fun [TS]

  because it's the work we're setting this [TS]

  up where and also i think it's an [TS]

  exciting story about trying to preserve [TS]

  society right the idea is we're trying [TS]

  to we're trying to save knowledge and [TS]

  culture from 30,000 your dark age and [TS]

  even a thousand years we still need to [TS]

  preserve it and that's kind of fun story [TS]

  to tell [TS]

  I like psychohistory as the hard science [TS]

  fiction concept of what if this science [TS]

  existed [TS]

  what would that mean and when it turns [TS]

  out that what it means is that there's a [TS]

  race of telepathic Superman who can [TS]

  control minds and do all this other [TS]

  stuff it's getting a little goofy but [TS]

  they learned how to do it inside the [TS]

  basic the the capital of the empire all [TS]

  along [TS]

  yeah who told you turn you as a as a [TS]

  social science major one of the things [TS]

  that amuses me about this is that this [TS]

  is this is a very social science kind of [TS]

  side [TS]

  fiction right it's like you know what [TS]

  social science is going to be in the [TS]

  future is going to be so good they could [TS]

  predict everything will happen entire [TS]

  galaxy for a thousand years [TS]

  that's how good we are going to get with [TS]

  social science I didn't major in [TS]

  psychohistory though wasn't offered [TS]

  black and minor in it [TS]

  what kind of school do you go to [TS]

  transport tech he was not that good but [TS]

  man can you machine things good robotics [TS]

  program mostly logic puzzles [TS]

  hey Erica so do you want to talk a [TS]

  little bit more about the largely utter [TS]

  lack of women in mesa you know the that [TS]

  i have read an awful lot of books home [TS]

  by Isaac asthma and other writers from [TS]

  this area and that's the thing that even [TS]

  when its first reading them [TS]

  I didn't even really notice because i [TS]

  didn't know it could be any different [TS]

  now that I've grown up and read a lot of [TS]

  cool books with lots of exciting female [TS]

  characters the relax stands out a whole [TS]

  lot more and you know maybe it wouldn't [TS]

  be quite so bad if the very few examples [TS]

  of female characters we had in here were [TS]

  treated the way they were treated i [TS]

  mentioned i highlighted some passages so [TS]

  I just like to take you guys little [TS]

  taste of the stuff that jumped out at me [TS]

  so we had the tues endian planet where [TS]

  they landed on one of the outskirt [TS]

  planets but they're talking about the [TS]

  machines from there it says even to the [TS]

  Indian machines into the indian food was [TS]

  better than the native stuff and they [TS]

  were closed for the women of other than [TS]

  gray homespun which was a very important [TS]

  thing like there are no women on this [TS]

  planet that we're talking about the only [TS]

  information that we get about them is [TS]

  that they like to have their clothes [TS]

  that are more colorful that imported [TS]

  from other planets yeah [TS]

  yep yeah and then you get that the one [TS]

  female character who really has a whole [TS]

  lot going on is a teenage girl [TS]

  arcadia or Arkady I don't know how [TS]

  you're supposed to pronounce that but so [TS]

  you have lots of sort of condescending [TS]

  things thrown her way at least she has [TS]

  some sort of inner life which i [TS]

  appreciate but you know her dad's asking [TS]

  her if you're going to pretend you're 19 [TS]

  what he what he gonna do when you're 25 [TS]

  and all the boys think you're 30 and [TS]

  and the other fellow telling his father [TS]

  to to shoot whoever this girl is [TS]

  planning on marrying someday because she [TS]

  is just she has her own mind is so [TS]

  headstrong that that would be a terrible [TS]

  thing for anyone that wants to marry her [TS]

  yeah you know the part that says early [TS]

  for me is really the book When Harry [TS]

  Seldon somebody is talking about oh you [TS]

  have a hundred thousand people working [TS]

  in your foundation and he's like well [TS]

  that includes the women so quick out in [TS]

  in my headcanon i like to think that the [TS]

  second foundation is actually all women [TS]

  because they're the ones who know what [TS]

  they're doing they are often not [TS]

  identified as anything other than write [TS]

  the first speaker and the third speaker [TS]

  and all of that [TS]

  that's right and that's true what we do [TS]

  find out who the first series but but [TS]

  yeah like it man when he's talking about [TS]

  the calgon the the planet of luxuries [TS]

  and stuff he's talking about all of the [TS]

  the people that go there [TS]

  so you've got the dandies of the [TS]

  imperial court there's sparklingly and [TS]

  libidinous ladies the Ruffin raucous [TS]

  warlords who ruled an iron the world's [TS]

  they had gained in blood with their [TS]

  unbridled and lascivious winches of the [TS]

  plump and luxurious businessman of the [TS]

  foundation with their lush mistresses I [TS]

  was just like wow yeah that's it so the [TS]

  only one that visit that planet are you [TS]

  know at shays and concubines and but no [TS]

  lush winches [TS]

  so that's the girl in the story at the [TS]

  end of foundation second foundation is [TS]

  the granddaughter of of the the [TS]

  Darrell's or Darrell's that are that are [TS]

  there who are like traveling with that [TS]

  with Magnifico the clown but you think [TS]

  they're a little slow on the uptake hear [TS]

  about Magnifico the club are most [TS]

  dangerous individual character who could [TS]

  upset the entire plan spends most of our [TS]

  time with him dressed as a clown and but [TS]

  but uh anyway the grandmother of the of [TS]

  the of the girl in that later story [TS]

  kills the guy who knows where the second [TS]

  foundation is located so she is she is [TS]

  basically the [TS]

  the the hero at the end of that the only [TS]

  reason she's able to do that is because [TS]

  because she had this feminine [TS]

  characteristics of actually liking the [TS]

  the Magnifico or bow which is he claims [TS]

  its original name I wish you would have [TS]

  done with that because she liked him for [TS]

  himself he was he decided to it to leave [TS]

  her mind undressed like the only way [TS]

  that she could could get past him and [TS]

  which was just it was seem like it [TS]

  struck me as a very gendered sort of [TS]

  treatment for that character no surprise [TS]

  but it does kill it kill a guy before so [TS]

  yeah which was the wrinkles finalized [TS]

  but yes and his head falls off which I i [TS]

  remember that passage she blesses torso [TS]

  and then his head falls off which is [TS]

  kind of cool [TS]

  it's tempting to credit Asimov's gender [TS]

  characterizations as strictly a product [TS]

  of the times but he did spend his entire [TS]

  life [TS]

  grabbing the butt of any woman who came [TS]

  near him and I've like I said I've read [TS]

  plenty of other novels from that time [TS]

  actually when I was growing up I thought [TS]

  Andre Norton was a dude because or [TS]

  Andrew north as she also wrote a rose [TS]

  and you know her books also had some of [TS]

  the same you know gender norms stuff [TS]

  going on with you know that but space [TS]

  captain pilot is a guy but she worked in [TS]

  a lot more women it was possible to do [TS]

  it you know she was a very very prolific [TS]

  and active author at the time she sold [TS]

  just fine so it wasn't you know you know [TS]

  having a woman in the book did not [TS]

  necessarily kill it [TS]

  well you know just glanced across the [TS]

  Highland was a weirdo but he had plenty [TS]

  of women in his books it wasn't horrible [TS]

  anyway yeah and they were all sex [TS]

  objects some of them were the main [TS]

  characters of the books in fact that's [TS]

  right [TS]

  very to all right what else what else [TS]

  should we talk about we could talk about [TS]

  the lack of a Leo yeah yeah yeah this is [TS]

  a whole galaxy with no aliens in it [TS]

  which is refreshing [TS]

  yeah it is kind of neat to just just [TS]

  make that choice that the only thing [TS]

  that we get to remotely approaching an [TS]

  alien is a mutation in humanity itself [TS]

  yeah i think if there were aliens that [TS]

  would strain credibility even farther [TS]

  with hurry Seldon's pretty great because [TS]

  that's a random factor that would [TS]

  impinge from the outside like you can [TS]

  say and after 500 years you'll have a [TS]

  local government problem and have to [TS]

  select this type of guy is you can't [TS]

  really say after 750 years here comes [TS]

  the aliens invade that's right as i'm [TS]

  sure you're aware the aliens have left [TS]

  yeah yeah it's uh I like though I'm what [TS]

  was it firefly was a an example of a [TS]

  world where I think just we can set up [TS]

  front like no aliens [TS]

  no no aliens right and it is kind of [TS]

  refreshing to have those they have those [TS]

  sci-fi world or universe is where [TS]

  they're like you know what this is gonna [TS]

  be about the people and variations of [TS]

  people and we're not going to this is [TS]

  not a story about us meeting some other [TS]

  you know other other race the monsters [TS]

  are us where our own problems we're [TS]

  going to have to deal with it and that's [TS]

  the story he wants to tell here right to [TS]

  the point where when we talked about the [TS]

  the sack of of of transit or right um [TS]

  they refer to it as being sacked by like [TS]

  what [TS]

  it's basically like space barbarians [TS]

  space Visigoths so they don't it could [TS]

  be aliens right you could be aliens but [TS]

  that's not the point and we have to draw [TS]

  he draws the parallel with Rome so [TS]

  directly [TS]

  it's like well suffice it to say they [TS]

  were there were you know space [TS]

  barbarians who came and and and attack [TS]

  them all right no aliens is this is not [TS]

  a story about aliens right it's a story [TS]

  about humanity in all its forms [TS]

  including its mutant forms apparently is [TS]

  you're looking for aliens don't read the [TS]

  foundation or really any of its mother's [TS]

  sure he doesn't want some no I mean most [TS]

  one of the things that I that I liked [TS]

  about reading his books that are also [TS]

  upset in this universe is the fact that [TS]

  they're all sort of settings universe [TS]

  you see trends or right here in a whole [TS]

  bunch of his other his other works and [TS]

  I've always been the kind of the candy [TS]

  kid that that like to just spot those [TS]

  little easter egg things and be able to [TS]

  kind of hook stuff together so but [TS]

  regardless of the quality of whichever [TS]

  of his books i was reading at the time I [TS]

  always dug it when I saw a connection to [TS]

  something else so I like the idea that [TS]

  was another reason the second time i [TS]

  read the foundation that I [TS]

  is much more into it because I recognize [TS]

  that this you know huge sweeping story [TS]

  actually probably enclosed a decent [TS]

  number of the other books that I like or [TS]

  that they proceeded in the same world [TS]

  see I never really bought the [TS]

  connections because maybe just because i [TS]

  had read the publication date but it [TS]

  seems very clear to me he had written [TS]

  three different sets of stories and then [TS]

  someone said you know I what I bet would [TS]

  sell foundation meeting empire he said [TS]

  different Empire ok here we go far and [TS]

  wait girls that's the sleeves put some [TS]

  stuff in the typewriter and not to go [TS]

  two hours later he has a novel huh [TS]

  nothing at all fits I just like it well [TS]

  he's playing in his own universes and [TS]

  then also connecting the dots because [TS]

  what wouldn't that be fun wouldn't blow [TS]

  their minds if they ran into daniel over [TS]

  on the moon right and it totally worked [TS]

  for me my mind was blown [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean III fell into [TS]

  him back at the end of elementary school [TS]

  but i but I started with the caves of [TS]

  steel and the naked son because they [TS]

  were mysteries it awakened you know this [TS]

  is cool you have any of those on my [TS]

  shelf right here to my favorites and and [TS]

  then sort of fell into the foundation [TS]

  books from there and and so yeah it was [TS]

  it was neat to see these vague [TS]

  connections between everything you go [TS]

  and you go okay there's this green [TS]

  scheme and then yeah in through the [TS]

  eighties as he started pulling them all [TS]

  together i liked them less and less and [TS]

  i still have not read most of the later [TS]

  books just because it did I didn't [TS]

  believe the connections it just didn't [TS]

  work for me at a certain point i also [TS]

  don't believe they're written by azimoff [TS]

  we eventually if if if they are even [TS]

  it's 35 40 years later right so even if [TS]

  it's him [TS]

  yeah it's not the same guy it's a it's a [TS]

  much later and easy you know when it's a [TS]

  cash grab and yeah I like it when he's [TS]

  young and hungry [TS]

  well and i agree i don't like the sort [TS]

  of loose connection of the original [TS]

  stories and you know and like giving the [TS]

  Martian Chronicles with Bradbury and [TS]

  just these things that are sort of these [TS]

  loosely linked short stories [TS]

  I really like that and I thought he was [TS]

  much better that than he was in the [TS]

  later books where he's trying to do a [TS]

  novel it's a big thing like yeah that is [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  a couple of notes i had I them get back [TS]

  to the mule for a second it is out like [TS]

  a Hail Mary I do i do feel like the mule [TS]

  is there because like what am I gonna do [TS]

  now I got it i'll have this guy he's got [TS]

  powers and he's going to confuse people [TS]

  what I do like about the way the meal is [TS]

  treated it is is not not his [TS]

  he's horrible appearance he's a skinny [TS]

  guy with a big nose that's like yeah no [TS]

  yeah no yeah Ronnie guy get on a guy [TS]

  with the big nose he can't be in charge [TS]

  of anything but um but he is I like that [TS]

  he's a cipher that he has no name that [TS]

  has given other than Bobo and ben 10 and [TS]

  his clown names he has no name and I I [TS]

  think that's that actually is [TS]

  interesting that he's he's a mystery and [TS]

  a cipher and and we don't really [TS]

  understand who he is or where he came [TS]

  from i think that's kind of fun and also [TS]

  in the car in a context of it being this [TS]

  story maybe depending on your [TS]

  perspective you a story told from a [TS]

  thousand years hence when they're [TS]

  looking back in history of the galaxy [TS]

  that led to the reestablishment of the [TS]

  of the galactic empire that they don't [TS]

  know like the the rest of the details [TS]

  have been lost in time and I think [TS]

  that's I I get a little vibe of that [TS]

  from this too so I think that those are [TS]

  things i like about the mule is that the [TS]

  mule is not we don't get a lot of like [TS]

  why does the mule do you can do what he [TS]

  does like who knows he's angry he's [TS]

  angry and his powers i found one of the [TS]

  the best scenes in the book is when a [TS]

  picture pretty thorough is walking to [TS]

  meet the mule in the palace that he's [TS]

  taken over and he he's walking down this [TS]

  like mile long road to get to the palace [TS]

  and nobody's around there are no guards [TS]

  and as an off it explains it doesn't [TS]

  need guards because he can control minds [TS]

  so the whole Palace is just empty except [TS]

  for the mule and his little spider yeah [TS]

  when he gets to the office is like you [TS]

  don't even need to look at them you can [TS]

  just turn away and it's fine it's cool [TS]

  because he he knows everything you're [TS]

  thinking it's ok it's creepy it is that [TS]

  is it is creepy and speaking look at the [TS]

  history books books one of the things [TS]

  that features heavily in these books [TS]

  at the beginning especially is the [TS]

  Encyclopedia Galactica which as we [TS]

  mentioned is a front it's a fake it if [TS]

  you die i enjoy that that we're gonna [TS]

  set up this big thing and it's going to [TS]

  be really good and it's going to [TS]

  preserve its going to preserve knowledge [TS]

  but behind the scenes we have plans to [TS]

  control the future [TS]

  I like that and I also of course like [TS]

  that because the Encyclopedia Galactica [TS]

  referenced specifically in Hitchhiker's [TS]

  Guide to the galaxy books as the stuffy [TS]

  annoying everything thing that everybody [TS]

  knows that's available for the galaxy [TS]

  much less interesting than the [TS]

  hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy which [TS]

  is what all the hoopla fruits you know [TS]

  where their towel is you know that this [TS]

  is that what they read they don't read [TS]

  dumb old encyclopedia chol speaking of [TS]

  this the stuffiness the encyclopedia [TS]

  that is one of the things that drew me [TS]

  in towards the beginning with I was sort [TS]

  of moved by the plight of harding having [TS]

  to argue against all of these stuffy [TS]

  scholars before they found out that the [TS]

  Encyclopedia was a front and you just [TS]

  get these cranky old men who are like [TS]

  it's all about the books there's nothing [TS]

  else going on here this is so important [TS]

  you shouldn't you know care about [TS]

  anything else and then they just get [TS]

  like totally beat down and it was just [TS]

  like you know pumping my fist like hi [TS]

  suck it old dudes but but the story is [TS]

  around these these stories that you you [TS]

  get that over and over again which is [TS]

  people like that we've been doing this [TS]

  for we've been doing this for years or [TS]

  since my grandfather was here or [TS]

  whatever like that and and then [TS]

  something changes because that's he [TS]

  wants to get across that timescale thing [TS]

  that you know Harry Sultan's plan is [TS]

  working on to the surface and you know [TS]

  you i love that people commit their [TS]

  entire lives and careers to this thing [TS]

  that's just a front like this that's [TS]

  hilarious yeah after them [TS]

  no it's very sad for them well if they [TS]

  weren't so jerky about it i wouldn't [TS]

  take so much pleasure mr. got to see the [TS]

  big picture here which they they don't [TS]

  that they didn't need to see the big [TS]

  picture they were Stooges I do like a [TS]

  kind of a correlation to that is so the [TS]

  foundation is set up because Harry 7 has [TS]

  a plan and they know his plan and so the [TS]

  rest of the galaxy knows about it as [TS]

  well but they don't really know anything [TS]

  about it so there's this whole religion [TS]

  that the foundation builds up around [TS]

  itself right you know give technology to [TS]

  the barbarians [TS]

  and you know preach to these people and [TS]

  so the rest of the galaxy kind of has a [TS]

  chip on his shoulder because the [TS]

  foundation people know what's going to [TS]

  happen in the future even though they [TS]

  don't really but they feel like they're [TS]

  predict protected by this plan and [TS]

  they're they're winning is inevitable so [TS]

  they don't really have to do anything so [TS]

  they at all the galaxies hates them and [TS]

  then the second foundation is introduced [TS]

  and the foundation finds out that they [TS]

  are themselves being manipulated by [TS]

  another group and they get angry and I [TS]

  just find that amusing [TS]

  well and that and the life cycles are [TS]

  some real-time follow-up from our chat [TS]

  room on you know the lifecycle is [TS]

  definitely sketched out by him about [TS]

  we're going to go through this phase in [TS]

  this phase in this phase and he's [TS]

  thinking of the big picture and I think [TS]

  that I think that's a really interesting [TS]

  i did have one one thing which i want to [TS]

  mention about the mule which is the [TS]

  Mules goal is basically to take over [TS]

  everything so at one point I I kept [TS]

  waiting for the foundation people to be [TS]

  like hey it turns out we don't need a [TS]

  thousand years of Darkness jizz we can [TS]

  do 500 because there's this guy and he's [TS]

  gonna use his powers to unite the galaxy [TS]

  and he's he's got like birth defects and [TS]

  is going to die in the next 10 years and [TS]

  then there's an empire so yay let's just [TS]

  go let's go auntie mule but instead [TS]

  they're like no no Harry Sullivan didn't [TS]

  write anything about this we gotta kill [TS]

  this guy [TS]

  we gotta get rid of this guy I think the [TS]

  problem there is that once he dies the [TS]

  like the foundation of his no pun [TS]

  intended [TS]

  acha other companies rule of his rule is [TS]

  it falls apart because he is only able [TS]

  to keep people you know basically will [TS]

  have one generation of people who are [TS]

  loyal to him because he or you know he [TS]

  could make them loyal to the ideals of [TS]

  peace or whatever but without the [TS]

  Foundation's grand plan which will bring [TS]

  everything together be whatever it ends [TS]

  up being at the time economics or force [TS]

  or mental powers who knows we go get [TS]

  that far in these three books but i [TS]

  think that that they they might not have [TS]

  known a lot about psychohistory but they [TS]

  recognized enough to know that his [TS]

  taking over was not not something that [TS]

  could actually last for very long and [TS]

  wasn't he wasn't stupid internet but [TS]

  within forty thousand years of of crap [TS]

  afterwards and then there's no more [TS]

  hairy sell them to come up with a plan i [TS]

  think the biggest problem is that the [TS]

  mule was [TS]

  interested in getting be the foundation [TS]

  plan on on schedule right he want he he [TS]

  was in tech mystic to them and he was [TS]

  going to do things you know he's trying [TS]

  to root them out instead of being like [TS]

  guys guys I can help [TS]

  he was not interested in helping because [TS]

  he was a very bitter angry mutant nobody [TS]

  ever helped him now an ugly cancer and [TS]

  it was really yeah I sometimes had to [TS]

  fight to not picture him as like a like [TS]

  a mule like I i was born with the Mules [TS]

  head that's why he wears the clown [TS]

  outfit interactive visual head is this [TS]

  granny guy with a big nose [TS]

  yeah that's it although i did like oh [TS]

  you know speaking of the Seldon plan and [TS]

  you mentioned Jason the the hollow q [TS]

  where Harry seldom appears oh yeah at [TS]

  Planned moments when there's a Seldon [TS]

  crisis over everybody go when that's [TS]

  gonna happen but he just shows up and is [TS]

  like hey I'm going to give you a vague a [TS]

  advice that isn't really a nice about [TS]

  what you're about to do this i recorded [TS]

  this 200 years ago [TS]

  exactly and then confuse you more and [TS]

  then vanish but feel free to sit down if [TS]

  you're standing and smoke [TS]

  yeah everybody spoke it would have been [TS]

  more realistic if eventually Hari Seldon [TS]

  was speaking in the language none of [TS]

  them understood [TS]

  huh together they get the old the old [TS]

  galactic scholars there to translate [TS]

  yeah because I i personally am NOT great [TS]

  at whatever they were speaking in 1100 [TS]

  yeah sure the base Latin I guess so the [TS]

  one that's true but i like that so he [TS]

  sets it up and everytime seldom appears [TS]

  he is right because he has a plan and [TS]

  then the mule appears and one of the [TS]

  people has figured out done a little [TS]

  psychohistory is like oh I know I seldom [TS]

  crisis is approaching that means cells [TS]

  going to appear and tell us what to do [TS]

  so let's go down to the the time bunker [TS]

  or whatever the heck they called it i [TS]

  forget and he'll tell us what to do and [TS]

  that he appears and he's like as you [TS]

  know you are currently in a civil war [TS]

  and the traders and they're like what [TS]

  this is nothing to do with what's going [TS]

  on I just enjoyed that moment everybody [TS]

  everyone's freaking out and the meal was [TS]

  there as well spoiler alert i also like [TS]

  the idea that he's sometimes talking to [TS]

  an empty room [TS]

  yes that said because they you know they [TS]

  didn't bother to show up because they [TS]

  you know they they fix the Seldon crisis [TS]

  is crazy themselves so they didn't go [TS]

  and listen to what he had to say like I [TS]

  would want to be there even if we manage [TS]

  to solve it i would bet the dude from [TS]

  hundreds of years ago is just going up [TS]

  here and start talking to us out of the [TS]

  past that's pretty interesting [TS]

  he's the guy that's the architect of [TS]

  everything that's happening now you [TS]

  don't want to go and check bill no let's [TS]

  give on video just given video at least [TS]

  right yeah their entire society is based [TS]

  on this guy in his writings just have [TS]

  somebody's station down there to go [TS]

  oh hey guys George Washington said [TS]

  something else should really be somebody [TS]

  down there all the time just in case [TS]

  like I i would totally station somebody [TS]

  down there you know it's an easy job you [TS]

  can read the comic books and stuff for [TS]

  your book book films put a woman down [TS]

  there [TS]

  she's got to secretary [TS]

  ya know just have one of those dictation [TS]

  machines and their galleons going down [TS]

  it's a great idea within people would [TS]

  sneak in there and say I'm Harry [TS]

  soldered and I say Scott should have a [TS]

  race that's how are they storing all [TS]

  their information right before things [TS]

  started like during prelude to [TS]

  foundation couldn't they have just like [TS]

  saved whatever their current version of [TS]

  wikipedia is it's weird that there was [TS]

  no storage of all of their knowledge at [TS]

  that point it got overwritten I think [TS]

  the Encyclopedia Galactica has all that [TS]

  stuff in stacks and the library at rant [TS]

  or was existence so you could still go [TS]

  there was it was hiding the second [TS]

  foundation they might might your wipe [TS]

  your mind when you try to check out a [TS]

  book or something haha shit you can [TS]

  check into the library but you can check [TS]

  out [TS]

  mhm just questioning the need for a [TS]

  encyclopedia foundation starting from [TS]

  scratch it was a front-mounted well it [TS]

  was yeah it's also everything there was [TS]

  no need you know encyclopedia salesmen [TS]

  they really talk a good [TS]

  game a big head and very seldom the [TS]

  ultimates encyclopedia salesman can i [TS]

  interest you in a galaxy-spanning [TS]

  foundation today [TS]

  your kids will thank you well there many [TS]

  generations hence will thank you [TS]

  mm what do you say we started with [TS]

  volume na to NB anything more about [TS]

  foundation before we moved to what we're [TS]

  reading is to love it i still enjoy it [TS]

  its comfort reading for yeah it goes [TS]

  down pretty quick huh [TS]

  Astrid my big ideas don't like them you [TS]

  also might actually enjoy i do enjoy the [TS]

  part with the meal I feel like it's a [TS]

  completely different style of story you [TS]

  know we get the world spanning [TS]

  foundation eat stuff at the beginning [TS]

  and then it takes a turn it just sort of [TS]

  becomes a zoom bang you know [TS]

  edge-of-your-seat excitement kind of a [TS]

  thing which is not the same type of [TS]

  storytelling as at the beginning so I [TS]

  enjoy it but on a very different whale [TS]

  yeah it's kind of a daring move and I [TS]

  proved that he could have kept turning [TS]

  out and then they ran into another [TS]

  problem and then they solved it and Hari [TS]

  Seldon appeared a good job and he winks [TS]

  link [TS]

  yeah I enjoy the the section titles for [TS]

  the second foundation two men in the [TS]

  mule two men without the meal two men [TS]

  and a peasant two men and the elders one [TS]

  man in the mule one-man the mule and [TS]

  another seem straightforward [TS]

  it's good stuff three men and a baby was [TS]

  in there too but now that 13 min Emil [TS]

  and a baby to two-and-a-half mules for [TS]

  the meal can have a baby so now too [TS]

  yeah and one you and nobody else and [TS]

  that's why his soul tragic you see em [TS]

  rights that's what it ends right I'm [TS]

  called the mule that's not why I'm [TS]

  called the mule and he walks off sadly [TS]

  in for that was very abrupt and yeah so [TS]

  anyway he wasn't that big a thread man [TS]

  nevermind then we have our mentalists [TS]

  who can out mental the mental mutant [TS]

  antsy to get done [TS]

  yeah but i would say people who are [TS]

  listening you kids out there with your [TS]

  fancy science fiction go to your library [TS]

  checkout foundation [TS]

  and read it yeah and if you are very [TS]

  careful you may discover it at in the in [TS]

  the basement of your library a secret [TS]

  door that leads to a no to a bunker to [TS]

  bunker containing the second foundation [TS]

  especially containing a hologram of an [TS]

  old man [TS]

  yes I believe that's literally the plot [TS]

  of the librarians yeah you're right [TS]

  there [TS]

  I think you're right hello I think [TS]

  you're right and another was a line [TS]

  about librarians it in this 10 that [TS]

  whatever his name was he says I'm no man [TS]

  of action [TS]

  no hero of any tell you I'm a library [TS]

  and ok which I did sell didn't spend [TS]

  recording these like was it just all [TS]

  with a row in one day [TS]

  yeah that 1i soon i like to think that [TS]

  he had a computer program he actually [TS]

  recorded hundreds of them in the corner [TS]

  program was monitoring what's happening [TS]

  in global affairs and then he would pick [TS]

  put the computer would put out the right [TS]

  one like oh this is number this is [TS]

  situation 83 and then put that one yeah [TS]

  he recorded all of the important [TS]

  phonemes so they could just construct [TS]

  any speed needed now and in fact he [TS]

  probably did a whole riff on alien [TS]

  invasion was like hey guys I didn't [TS]

  foresee this you're on your own [TS]

  good luck I mean that I'm dead here are [TS]

  the plans for a ray gun and then [TS]

  occasionally you'd have one that's been [TS]

  like you know it looks like you're [TS]

  having an alien invasion emergency [TS]

  that's a totally different voice would [TS]

  you like some help with that [TS]

  I you know I like to think that there's [TS]

  a director they're saying Harry that was [TS]

  great just one more take if you could do [TS]

  a little more proof that the one thing [TS]

  or it's for science theory is kind of [TS]

  like foundations Clippy alright well [TS]

  there is kids you've heard it's got [TS]

  McNulty has told you go to your library [TS]

  and check out foundation to it now [TS]

  yeah if you want to open or by cop you [TS]

  could do that too if you'd like to [TS]

  enrich the estate of isaac asimov you [TS]

  may do like Scott did with his fancy [TS]

  leather-bound volume i did indeed [TS]

  doesn't read better doesn't read better [TS]

  in a fancy leather-bound volumes come [TS]

  that actually leather-bound this club [TS]

  and that's it [TS]

  did you choose proud not get the letter [TS]

  around restraint was from the every [TS]

  man's library it is a lovely addition [TS]

  except for the aforementioned [TS]

  misappropriated ! Sam that all right [TS]

  well let's move on and do something I [TS]

  like to do whenever we have a book club [TS]

  which is get a little taste of what [TS]

  other people are reading or have read [TS]

  recently that they like to mention gives [TS]

  you some ideas of other things that you [TS]

  might like to read [TS]

  Scott what are you reading I am reading [TS]

  well i have recently read yes a book [TS]

  called the trader Peru cormorant by Seth [TS]

  dickinson which I really loved but I [TS]

  hesitate to recommend it to anyone [TS]

  because much like I love KJ parker who [TS]

  who writes these kind of fantasy novels [TS]

  that are there's no magic and there's [TS]

  just lots of pain and betrayal and [TS]

  heartbreak and at the end you just [TS]

  dissatisfied because everyone's unhappy [TS]

  this is the same kind of thing and it's [TS]

  right in the title the the main [TS]

  character biru quorum and is a traitor [TS]

  and so she betrays everybody in a very [TS]

  elaborate scheme to get revenge on this [TS]

  empire that takes over her homeland and [TS]

  it's very interesting book and i really [TS]

  like it but I can imagine some people [TS]

  getting to the end of the book and [TS]

  feeling quite cheated so if you can [TS]

  stomach that check it out because it's a [TS]

  good read Erica what are you reading [TS]

  I've been reading so much lately so i [TS]

  will try to make hopefully it's quick [TS]

  I've just been on quite a book jag so [TS]

  besides just frantically finishing be [TS]

  the foundation trilogy today huh that [TS]

  was that was i finished adjusting time I [TS]

  kind of fell asleep i was reading it so [TS]

  then i had to wake up music plays games [TS]

  can be made it most recently before that [TS]

  i read a trilogy of books by jamie moyer [TS]

  the first is called delius shadow and [TS]

  they are sort of supernatural detective [TS]

  stories but they're kind of two main [TS]

  characters one is Delia and one is a [TS]

  detective and they there are murder [TS]

  mysteries but [TS]

  there are also ghost so she sees ghosts [TS]

  and the other guys that Detective and it [TS]

  was one of those series where when I was [TS]

  finished reading it I went for like [TS]

  several days where i would like reach [TS]

  for the book for my kindle expecting to [TS]

  jump back into this world and then [TS]

  remember i had finished them and it was [TS]

  so sad so if you like the supernatural [TS]

  kind of thing or mysteries i recommend [TS]

  checking this out because i thought they [TS]

  were excellent and they take place um [TS]

  like the 1910s so you get all kinds of [TS]

  interesting in San Francisco interesting [TS]

  you feel like you're really in that [TS]

  place at that time after the earthquake [TS]

  in the fire and then during the war [TS]

  it's a really good reads before that I [TS]

  was following up on i had started [TS]

  reading now John Scalzi is old man war [TS]

  series all old man's war series a long [TS]

  time ago and just jump back into it and [TS]

  read Zoe's tail in the ghost brigades [TS]

  and last colony and now I'm realizing [TS]

  that it's been so long since i read old [TS]

  man swear that I have to go back and [TS]

  reread it because I really remember [TS]

  going to happen to they kept referring [TS]

  to things and I was like I know I'm [TS]

  supposed to know what this is but i [TS]

  really don't [TS]

  so that's next on my list and then an [TS]

  author that I just love for sort of like [TS]

  light comfort reading is Sarah Addison [TS]

  allen and she came out with a new book [TS]

  like a year ago which I finally got [TS]

  around to reading i read the first page [TS]

  realized it was a sequel to one of her [TS]

  other books so then I had to go back and [TS]

  read the first book so the first one is [TS]

  garden spells and the newer one is [TS]

  called first frost and it is about a [TS]

  family in a southern town I think like [TS]

  it's somewhere in the Carolinas who has [TS]

  family magic there's a an apple tree in [TS]

  the backyard that will throw apples at [TS]

  people and if you eat one of the apples [TS]

  you see either wonderful or terrifying [TS]

  terrifying vision of the future and one [TS]

  of them is a she's caterer and the food [TS]

  that she makes with the ingredients from [TS]

  the garden can make people do or see or [TS]

  feel things and just each character has [TS]

  their own sort of thing and it's it's [TS]

  kind of wonderful so read both of those [TS]

  and last but not least just before that [TS]

  I zipped through the Fallen blade series [TS]

  by kelly McCullough super super fast [TS]

  because they were really good to start [TS]

  with and just got better with each book [TS]

  and that's about a assassin who was an [TS]

  assassin in in thrall to a goddess of [TS]

  justice and then the goddess was killed [TS]

  so he just basically became kind of a a [TS]

  back alley you know jerk for higher kind [TS]

  of and alcoholic and it's overly of all [TS]

  for that he should apparently it's sweet [TS]

  for that he should apparently it's sweet [TS]

  it's sort of a story of of his [TS]

  Redemption and there's a lot of other [TS]

  characters that revolve around him so [TS]

  many strong female characters in these [TS]

  books it is just I mean the main [TS]

  character happens to be a guy but [TS]

  there's absolutely no difference in what [TS]

  it's so different from the educational [TS]

  books no difference between what a man [TS]

  and a woman in this world there are [TS]

  expected to do and it's so well built [TS]

  the entire world is just constructed [TS]

  very well around these characters so it [TS]

  was a that was another one where once I [TS]

  finished it I was really sad because [TS]

  there were no more and I couldn't go [TS]

  back into that world so i highly [TS]

  recommend the the Fallen blade series by [TS]

  killing McCullough alright so there you [TS]

  go that's all the books [TS]

  yeah i've been reading so much Wow David [TS]

  what are you reading [TS]

  well i actually just read Zoe's tail a [TS]

  couple weeks ago [TS]

  yeah that's the one that got me into [TS]

  that series that's the 1i regulate it [TS]

  was because it was a hugo nominee and so [TS]

  I read that now I go this is good and [TS]

  then I went back and I read all the [TS]

  other guy i read the mostly street [TS]

  chronologically and I just skipped over [TS]

  that one somehow so I'm kind of going [TS]

  back and going oh yeah I remember this [TS]

  part of the story [TS]

  cool i accidentally skip to that [TS]

  actually after just reading old man's [TS]

  war [TS]

  oh and then went back to philly in which [TS]

  is why I need to go back and reread old [TS]

  man's were affected and I'm all i order [TS]

  so i might as well so but yeah right now [TS]

  the the novel that i'm reading reading [TS]

  i'm sort of skipping between two books [TS]

  right now I'm reading welcome to night [TS]

  Vale by Jeffrey Cranor and Joseph think [TS]

  which is of course tied to the podcast [TS]

  welcome to night Vale but you don't [TS]

  necessarily have to have listened to the [TS]

  series two to get it this is designed to [TS]

  be just as much of an entry point for [TS]

  new readers it is weird and if you do [TS]

  know the show you know that it's going [TS]

  to be weird but it is delightful [TS]

  so yeah I'm about a third of the way [TS]

  through that and it's it's setting up [TS]

  two parallel stories that are converging [TS]

  slowly and [TS]

  I kinda like that it's a little more [TS]

  ambitious than the podcast in some ways [TS]

  and then on the nonfiction side i am [TS]

  reading Tesla inventor of the electric [TS]

  age by w Bernard girls and which should [TS]

  surprise nobody not i mean it's not like [TS]

  I felt that I had to do a lot of [TS]

  research because I mean the Tesla radio [TS]

  shows are very specifically not really [TS]

  Nikola Tesla what is he's not exactly a [TS]

  two-fisted kind of guy that's why I got [TS]

  an F on my that's right kids there are [TS]

  facts of these that's not one of them [TS]

  but but i thought you know i'm i'm going [TS]

  to go in and get some detail and it is [TS]

  actually sort of triggering ideas for [TS]

  future episodes [TS]

  not that I need more ideas i could do a [TS]

  whole series of just Tesla stories at [TS]

  yeah which is scary [TS]

  yeah but it is a lot of fun and it is [TS]

  very interesting to see just you know [TS]

  how much how much already knew about him [TS]

  but how much I had no idea about so it's [TS]

  quite fascinating and and just little [TS]

  things like the the invention of radio I [TS]

  mean everyone knows Marconi invented [TS]

  radio well Tesla really invented radio [TS]

  Marconi just sort of snuck in there with [TS]

  the copyrights so yeah that happened to [TS]

  him a lot which is why he died destitute [TS]

  and obsessed with pigeons in the new [TS]

  yorker hotel but it is it is fascinating [TS]

  to learn more about the Real guy so all [TS]

  right Monty 40 reading well yesterday [TS]

  finished reading razzle-dazzle the [TS]

  battle for Broadway the book by Michael [TS]

  Riedel which is a history of musical [TS]

  theater in New York centered around the [TS]

  people who own the theaters which are [TS]

  not really the most of interesting [TS]

  people will necessarily but there's a [TS]

  lot more continuity there are trying to [TS]

  follow an actor because the actors [TS]

  careers [TS]

  don't go too long and don't affect every [TS]

  single play last month i finished the [TS]

  final terry pratchett book [TS]

  the Shepherd's crown it's very good [TS]

  it's not really finished you can't help [TS]

  feeling like there's thirty percent of [TS]

  the book that didn't really get written [TS]

  but it's also heartbreaking very early [TS]

  on so there's a little warning people [TS]

  oh the book i'm about to start is lemony [TS]

  snicket's fourth book in the all the [TS]

  wrong questions series now this is a new [TS]

  series it's not the series of [TS]

  unfortunate events it's kinda it's kids [TS]

  kind of trapped in a film noir type [TS]

  world and each of the books is titled [TS]

  with a question that was the wrong [TS]

  question to be asked at a certain point [TS]

  in the plot for the first three are [TS]

  called who could that be at this hour [TS]

  when did you see her last and shouldn't [TS]

  you be in school this fourth and final [TS]

  one takes a somewhat different tack and [TS]

  the question is why is this night [TS]

  different from all other night haha i [TS]

  feel like that question has been asked [TS]

  before but apparently it was the wrong [TS]

  one this time and i'm also trying to [TS]

  work my way through grant morrison's [TS]

  Doom Patrol comic books they are crazy [TS]

  grant morrison generally it's going to [TS]

  be crazy yeah uh-oh and i just read a [TS]

  John crack hours to big books into thin [TS]

  air and under the banner of heaven [TS]

  oh very good alright they're great Jason [TS]

  what are you reading what's got Jason I [TS]

  wonder what you are reading it's amazing [TS]

  that you should ask that you always seem [TS]

  to be the one who asked that question [TS]

  hi guys you think your church died just [TS]

  well as mentioned earlier i finished [TS]

  ancillary mercy the third book in the [TS]

  Imperial raj series by and lucky i [TS]

  enjoyed it [TS]

  book two as we mentioned on the previous [TS]

  podcast took me a little by surprise and [TS]

  have a scope it felt to me was a lot [TS]

  smaller in the third book i was [TS]

  surprised again that rather than going [TS]

  off to have another adventure it the the [TS]

  book really just kind of does a u-turn [TS]

  and goes right back to where the second [TS]

  book happened but in in its 60 in it in [TS]

  its run [TS]

  and not only do you get to see more of [TS]

  these characters you get to see her [TS]

  payoff actually a lot of things that [TS]

  might have more to do with the bigger [TS]

  picture then we realized initially and i [TS]

  think it's it's I think it's very good [TS]

  and it's got a good ending that's Noah [TS]

  that's very knowing about the fact that [TS]

  while this is the end of the book that [TS]

  the stories go on and on and I I think [TS]

  she did a really nice job so I like that [TS]

  one a lot i read the new expanse novella [TS]

  vital abyss which I really enjoyed and [TS]

  it serves three different purposes which [TS]

  is kind of fascinating in giving some [TS]

  some it tells a character story about an [TS]

  interesting character who ends up in a [TS]

  very interesting place [TS]

  it tells a story about the sort of [TS]

  origins of the the loosening of the [TS]

  protomolecule on the station in the [TS]

  first expanse book Leviathan wakes and [TS]

  has a hint about where the story might [TS]

  be going next involving shady characters [TS]

  in the solar system so it's a it's an [TS]

  interesting little combination as a as a [TS]

  very short quick novella and I am in the [TS]

  midst of reading the lives of tau by [TS]

  Wesley to which I am enjoying greatly [TS]

  and is the closest to the rook of any [TS]

  book that i've read i think in a while [TS]

  it's not i wouldn't say it's as good as [TS]

  the rook but it's got kind of a feel [TS]

  like that where it's this sort of secret [TS]

  agent spy thing but also with a [TS]

  completely weird a fantasy sci fi ish [TS]

  elements so I'm enjoying that that's it [TS]

  i still have that on my kindle haven't [TS]

  gotten to it yet i have there for a [TS]

  while but I'm enjoying it now I'm [TS]

  actually I i put it aside to read to [TS]

  rear foundation now I'm going to happily [TS]

  go back to the lives of town [TS]

  alright well we've reached the end then [TS]

  we've we've come up with a big list a [TS]

  list of books for you to read here in [TS]

  the water we reading segment and of [TS]

  course our advice again go to your [TS]

  library on trent or or your nearest [TS]

  available galactic planet and read this [TS]

  foundation by isaac asimov and I'd like [TS]

  to thank my guests for joining me to [TS]

  talk about this Monte Ashley thank you [TS]

  very much I take back what I said about [TS]

  you being a mutant telepath I knew you [TS]

  were going to do [TS]

  I love you Monty and everything that you [TS]

  think I will be loyal to you forever [TS]

  Monty what how about I hated when I [TS]

  didn't like you but now I like you and I [TS]

  would anyway Scott McNulty thank you for [TS]

  being here made the collective spirit [TS]

  guides you Jason thank you may the force [TS]

  be with you [TS]

  basically sure this David lower Star [TS]

  Wars thank you thank you I'm glad we [TS]

  managed to get all the way through [TS]

  without doing a Magnifico a clown clown [TS]

  but down there it is sometimes how you [TS]

  kill the things you land and Erica and [TS]

  sign i'm so i'm so glad that you will [TS]

  not just be stuck with your great [TS]

  homespun I i am thrilled about five [TS]

  yeah yeah to the space filled with all [TS]

  that great homes boom indeed the space [TS]

  beans well done and everybody out there [TS]

  for listening to this transmission [TS]

  reaching you across the galaxy [TS]

  thank you for doing so and now you can [TS]

  go back to your lives and hope that the [TS]

  mule doesn't come for you in the night [TS]

  whoo what noise that you'll make a cute [TS]

  couple that's exactly as well thanks to [TS]

  the pictures would be comfortable we'll [TS]

  see you next week back [TS]

  [Music] [TS]