0:00:00Which one did you listen to? The stupid one with Mike Daisy from way back when?
0:00:03No, the one with the Long Island Jeep dealer or whatever it was.
0:00:06Yeah, that was a pretty good episode. You still do your fake, like, "This is how we think people
0:00:11are on Long Island," after hearing people on Long Island talk for an entire show?
0:00:15Yeah.
0:00:16And you're still going to do that? It didn't take hearing all the actual people from Long
0:00:19Island talk? You're just going to go back to that because you think that is somehow representative
0:00:24of something?
0:00:24No, I think it makes you mad, and I think that's funny.
0:00:26So Richmond's in the South, right?
0:00:29Yeah, once upon a time it was the capital of the Confederacy.
0:00:32Too bad it's so small it doesn't even have an Apple store.
0:00:34No, Richmond does. You're thinking of Charlottesville, which is an hour west.
0:00:38You're just trying to get me angry so you can go to bed.
0:00:41I really want to go to bed. My throat's all dry. I just took my last sip of water. I'm so tired.
0:00:47Just think of the editing job you have ahead. You're going to have to listen back to all this
0:00:50crap again to try to extract some value from it. So you have double punishment.
0:00:55Right, so we have some follow-up.
0:00:58Alright, take it out of the parking lot.
0:01:00Alright, so the first follow-up is from me and it's from
0:01:05Al. I don't know if that's Al or Al or what. I'm gonna say Alabama.
0:01:10You know, I think that's right. I think this person's name is Alabama. So anyway, he or she
0:01:16made a point with regard to the
0:01:20Android, people switching from Android to iOS, which you had said
0:01:24Kind of off the cuff an episode or episode or two ago
0:01:27And so reading from his or her feedback in my immediate circle of friends and colleagues 15 people have switched from iOS to Android
0:01:35None have switched from Android to iOS
0:01:37The main reason and this is what I thought was interesting the main reason after an iOS update their one-plus-year-old iPhone
0:01:44Officially supported by Apple slowed down and made them mad now on Android
0:01:4895% of them don't get updates, but everything keeps working as
0:01:54"fast" as it did when they got the phone.
0:01:58And I thought that was very interesting
0:01:59because I've not heard this personally,
0:02:01but I could see that being,
0:02:04I don't know if I should use the word legitimate,
0:02:05but perhaps justifiable reason for not upgrading,
0:02:09or not upgrading your iPhone
0:02:10or alternatively going to Android.
0:02:12And I was just curious if you two had any thoughts on that.
0:02:14- I mean, it's kind of a weak argument.
0:02:17I mean, first of all, it's totally anecdotal.
0:02:18Now, my statement was,
0:02:20I forget exactly my words,
0:02:23but it was saying that not a lot of people
0:02:26ever move from iOS to Android,
0:02:29but people do move from Android to iOS.
0:02:31And I didn't back it up with anything,
0:02:33and I don't really have a lot of strong support for that,
0:02:35except that just from what I've seen online,
0:02:37I've seen occasional studies and surveys
0:02:39and reports here and there that some Android people
0:02:42move to iOS after having an Android phone.
0:02:44And I've never seen a report that says otherwise,
0:02:47I mean, that says the opposite,
0:02:48that some statistically significant number of people
0:02:52move from iOS to Android after having an iPhone.
0:02:55Those numbers might be out there,
0:02:58but I've only ever seen the former,
0:03:00and I've never seen the latter being reported
0:03:02in an actual study or report of real numbers
0:03:05with real people.
0:03:06So anybody can have anecdotes saying,
0:03:09oh well, I switched, or my friends all switched
0:03:11in the other direction, but I would love to know
0:03:13if anybody has actual numbers backing that up
0:03:15in either direction or both directions
0:03:16or in either direction.
0:03:18I would love to see actual numbers for that
0:03:20because neither of us really do really have anything
0:03:23to support this, me or--
0:03:25ow!
0:03:27I like this anecdote, though, because it highlights
0:03:31a phenomenon that I've seen a lot in that when you have
0:03:37a study of a large group of people,
0:03:38you want to see larger trends or whatever.
0:03:40But that's just like--
0:03:43those big numbers are good for sort
0:03:45of seeing where the industry or the population is going.
0:03:48But in any small pocket of people, this phenomenon that this person is describing is something
0:03:53that I've seen a lot of.
0:03:56And that, like, how do people decide to, you know, change platforms, switch from a Mac
0:04:03to a PC, like, whatever sort of technology purchasing decision and platform it is, how
0:04:10do they change?
0:04:11Do they change on an individual basis?
0:04:13Most of the time what I see is what this person described is that social groups move kind
0:04:18of as a herd in that it will become socially accepted within some small or large group
0:04:24of people, whether it's just five friends or an entire family or an entire community.
0:04:28Darrell Bock Or a "framily."
0:04:29What?
0:04:30Adam Boff Yeah, and it will become like common wisdom.
0:04:34Everybody knows that X is true of Y, and it starts becoming socially unacceptable to still
0:04:42be using X when everybody knows X has this problem Y and you should all change to Z.
0:04:46Whatever it may be, whether it's about cars, dishwashers, car seats, daycares, I'm thinking
0:04:53of parenting things, but like, you know, and also with phones. And I've seen this as well
0:04:58in small groups of people. Everyone just knows like, oh, you know, like the original was like
0:05:04with the iPhone, oh, your phone is crappy. You should get an iPhone because it's better
0:05:08at the web or whatever. And then not everyone, or it's the cool thing, or they have apps and
0:05:12and apps are cool.
0:05:12And on the other side, you know, in this group,
0:05:15like, oh, you should get off Apple phones
0:05:17'cause Apple doesn't support their old products
0:05:19and they intentionally slow things down.
0:05:21Everybody knows that.
0:05:22You should try Android or whatever.
0:05:24It doesn't really matter whether the thing
0:05:25they're talking about is true or not,
0:05:27or whether it's true for a brief period of time,
0:05:29or was true in the past, is no longer true,
0:05:31or was never true.
0:05:32It doesn't really matter.
0:05:33All it matters is that like the social proof
0:05:36of a group of friends or family or whatever
0:05:40can move these little pockets of people.
0:05:42And the pocket phenomena has almost nothing to do
0:05:47with the larger trend, because there could be pockets going,
0:05:49especially if they're basing their movement
0:05:51on things that aren't true anyway.
0:05:53These pockets could be just Brownian motion,
0:05:54just like random movement of these little pockets.
0:05:56But I think it's interesting that it's not a uniform motion,
0:06:01and the decisions aren't made on an individual basis.
0:06:04It's sort of social proof and hearsay
0:06:08and half-truths and stuff like that that cause these little pockets to move in one direction
0:06:13or the other. And that, I think, is fascinating no matter which direction they're moving in.
0:06:16Fascinating and a little bit depressing, but I've long since learned that there's no use
0:06:21trying to dissuade people of whatever notion that they've decided about whatever it is they're
0:06:27talking about, whether it's vacuum cleaners or cars or certainly parenting and also things like
0:06:32phones. And they tend to go in cycles, so whenever I hear someone say something like,
0:06:35I'm always going to get Android phones because iOS phones don't have flash and I need flash.
0:06:43Just don't -- it's difficult to discuss that topic in a constructive way with them
0:06:48about the utility of flash on the web and how many Android phones have flash
0:06:54or how useful it is in the mobile web or whatever.
0:06:56Once they've decided that, they're not going to change their mind until the new thing is,
0:07:00you know, Android phones are unreliable.
0:07:03I'm gonna get Apple because my last two Android phones broke or something equally
0:07:07Unfounded or random or whatever
0:07:10What I think I think Al's specific
0:07:12Instance here that he's saying that his friends and he all switched because they were mad because their one-year-old iPhone
0:07:21got a software update from Apple that made it slower and
0:07:24This is actually an interesting conundrum. Like, you know, what should Apple do here now?
0:07:30I've never heard anybody say that about an Android phone that it got a software update
0:07:34Period but also
0:07:38But also that that a software update slowed it down and maybe that's because they they so rarely get updates
0:07:42I don't know but whatever the reason I've never heard people say that I think a lot of this has to do with
0:07:47This like cultural narrative that people especially Apple skeptics and anti Apple people
0:07:53Have have had about Apple for a while, which is their products are overpriced, right?
0:07:58right, nevermind that the iPhone is often sold at retail
0:08:02at the same price as similar Android phones, whatever,
0:08:04and you can make those arguments all day about,
0:08:07oh, we'll configure a PC with similar hardware
0:08:09as a MacBook Pro and it's a similar price.
0:08:11You can make those arguments all day.
0:08:12It doesn't matter, as John, you just said.
0:08:14It's hard to ever convince these people otherwise
0:08:16once they have these long-running beliefs,
0:08:19but the commonly held,
0:08:22and I've heard people say this all the time,
0:08:23the commonly held thing here is Apple's update
0:08:26made my old phone slower to force me to buy a new one
0:08:29because they want more money.
0:08:31Now, again, I've never heard anybody say,
0:08:34Samsung updated my phone to make me buy a new one
0:08:36and intentionally made it slower
0:08:37so I'd buy a new Samsung phone.
0:08:39I've never heard a single person say that.
0:08:41Again, this is anecdotal, who knows if people do.
0:08:43But the motive is ascribed to Apple
0:08:46that if a new version of the software is slower,
0:08:49or if I just perceive it to be slower even if it's not,
0:08:52or if it is slower but for a reason
0:08:54that's not the fault of the operating system,
0:08:56Maybe I'm like running more apps and stuff and some app is slowing stuff down or killing
0:08:59the battery, you know, whatever the reason.
0:09:01They ascribe the blame to "Oh, Apple is greedy because their products are expensive
0:09:04and they want more of my money."
0:09:06However, what would happen if Apple did not give software updates to one-year-old phones?
0:09:14Then you'd have these exact same people making the exact same complaint.
0:09:19Apple is so greedy they won't let me have the new software, they made my phone obsolete
0:09:23they will use the word obsolete even though it does not mean what they think it means but they will use the word anyway
0:09:27Apple made my phone obsolete to force me to buy a new one because they want more money and they're so greedy
0:09:32Like it would be the exact same argument if they did it the other direction
0:09:34and so this is one of those things like I don't think I think this is it's just like it's a it's a cultural like
0:09:41rumor or or meme or just
0:09:44norm that
0:09:46this certain pretty sizable group of people just thinks this about Apple and will always describe that motive of
0:09:52their stuff is expensive, therefore anything they do
0:09:54is to make me go spend more money on their stuff.
0:09:57And occasionally that might be the reason they do something,
0:10:00but I think it's pretty occasional.
0:10:01I think that's more like a happy side effect
0:10:04of moving things forward and making new stuff every year
0:10:07and moving the requirements forward every year.
0:10:09But what do you expect them to do
0:10:11with your 18 month old iPhone 4?
0:10:13Like do you expect them to, either way,
0:10:16if they support this old hardware forever,
0:10:19it will get slower over time as the OS gets more complicated
0:10:21more advanced. If they don't support it forever, you'll scream that they stopped
0:10:25supporting it.
0:10:26Well, it's the social aspect of it that's important, because I think what happens in
0:10:29these little pockets that move around is that one or two people with stature in the social
0:10:34group will get unreasonably angry about something, and then the other people will feel that they
0:10:42will be looked upon as foolish if they continue to have dealings with the company that's
0:10:46been denounced by the person with a higher social standing. And they'd be chided about
0:10:51it and said like, "Oh, you're still doing the Apple stuff?"
0:10:54It becomes socially unacceptable.
0:10:56Even if that individual, if left to their own devices, doesn't have a problem, their
0:11:00device didn't get slower, or they upgraded and didn't notice any problems or whatever,
0:11:04it becomes a problem socially speaking because of the one or two people who are angry.
0:11:08And you see this in the opposite thing too.
0:11:10Marco, recently you posted a link on your website about the guys' experience at Google
0:11:17I/O versus WWDC.
0:11:19In our social circle, or at least in some social circles, there is a stigma about Android
0:11:23phones, about how they're crappy and there's nothing good on them.
0:11:25And if you were seen with an Android phone, whether you like the Android phone or not,
0:11:29if you're in a social group where that is looked down upon, you'll get crap about having
0:11:33an Android phone.
0:11:35Now, I've never experienced that with the groups that I've traveled in.
0:11:39I don't think people care that much, but I know it is definitely a thing because I've
0:11:42seen this opposite thing as well.
0:11:43And it has, if you're in that social group, it doesn't matter if you are perfectly happy
0:11:47with your Android phone, at a certain point you begin to feel foolish for having an Android
0:11:54phone because all these other people that you respect say that you shouldn't have one
0:11:57and they're crappy, or you get teased about it or whatever.
0:12:00And so groups will move, you know, groups of teenagers, families, groups of coworkers.
0:12:07And again, these individual bubbles mean nothing about the larger trend.
0:12:10They are just lumps in the real world data.
0:12:13But I think it's fascinating how these little groups are moving.
0:12:16I think the group can spread quite widely. Obviously the macro phenomenon is if something
0:12:23happens to some kind of news story that lets you learn that like Company X is evil because
0:12:27they sell children into slavery or whatever, that bubble will just grow and cover everybody
0:12:31and it'll be like, well, I'm not going to, you know, forget it. We're not buying anything
0:12:35for that anymore. The company goes out of business. Like the bubbles can end up growing
0:12:38and connect with each other and just cover the entire map. But these type of bubbles,
0:12:42In my experience, tend to be focused on one or two people with high social standing who
0:12:47have a bad experience with whatever, and that spreads to one or two degrees of connections
0:12:53from the person.
0:12:54The only exception is cases—and this one always cracks me up—where there are no good
0:12:58alternatives.
0:12:59Where someone with high social standing has a bad experience with an airline, and they
0:13:02say they will never fly that airline again, it's like, "Well, five down, six more to
0:13:09go, and you will be out of airlines," because they're all terrible.
0:13:11It's like, I'm never dealing with Comcast again.
0:13:14It's okay, well, so you have probably one, two,
0:13:17possibly zero other cable companies.
0:13:20Eventually you will hate them all,
0:13:21and then what will you do?
0:13:22Then you'll have to pick the least bad one,
0:13:23which is what we're all doing anyway.
0:13:24So that one I think people have learned to ignore,
0:13:26because it used to be like, oh, well, I'll never fly Delta.
0:13:28Our family doesn't fly Delta.
0:13:30Delta's terrible.
0:13:31Sorry, Delta, I'm just picking your name out of the hat.
0:13:32Is Delta still in business?
0:13:33- Yes, and they are terrible,
0:13:34but it doesn't really matter, 'cause they're all terrible.
0:13:36- Right, but at this point, everyone sort of knows,
0:13:39look, they're all terrible.
0:13:40If someone in your family or work group or whatever is super mad at some airline, it
0:13:46is not reason for you to not fly that airline.
0:13:49If anyone gives you crap about flying an airline because they'll tell you about the horrible
0:13:52experience they had, you say, "Look, every airline has those stories.
0:13:56They're all terrible."
0:13:57Right?
0:13:58But with the phone things, I still think this is going in cycles.
0:14:01And with Apple stuff as well.
0:14:02Like, I have relatives who were on Macs for years and then a bubble forums about, like,
0:14:07Mac broke and I didn't feel like I was getting the support I need or I felt like it was obsolete
0:14:11before it was supposed to be or it is unreliable or I no longer understand it.
0:14:15So they switched to PC.
0:14:16Or my, you know, I don't like Apple and I've switched from Mac to PC so now I'm going to
0:14:21get an Android phone on general principles because I'm mad at Apple about the whatever
0:14:24thing.
0:14:25Like, that can happen anywhere but like, wait ten years and it could be back around the
0:14:29other side again.
0:14:30I'm never getting an Android phone again, these things are terrible, I don't like them
0:14:32for whatever reason they decide, I'm only getting, you know, Microsoft phones or Windows
0:14:38phones or whatever. And very few of these decisions have anything to do with logic and
0:14:41they just end up being noise. But this is the source of anecdotes. So anytime you hear
0:14:45an anecdote, just think of one of these bubbles and think of what is making this bubble move
0:14:48from one camp to the other for any reason.
0:14:51So you're saying that you never got made fun of for your flip phone, say in the lobby of
0:14:56the Park 55 at WWDC?
0:14:59That doesn't run Android.
0:15:00(laughing)
0:15:00- Fluff phone is a whole,
0:15:01that's a whole other category of thing,
0:15:04and that's like gentle teasing.
0:15:05I didn't feel like I'm excluded from the group
0:15:07because I have one.
0:15:08It's like, "I can't hang out with you guys.
0:15:09"I don't have an iPhone."
0:15:10Like, no one really cares.
0:15:11- Well, I don't think we made fun of you.
0:15:13I just took a picture and posted it on Instagram
0:15:16and got 400 people to make fun of you.
0:15:18- That's a whole other category of things.
0:15:20Like, you're not even participating.
0:15:21You don't even have a smartphone.
0:15:22You still have a dumb phone.
0:15:23It's like I would,
0:15:24if I showed up running a penny-farthing bicycle or something.
0:15:27I mean, it's like, whatever.
0:15:28But, you know.
0:15:29It's funny because I'm not going to laugh at anyone using a flip phone.
0:15:33I will laugh at you using a flip phone because it's funny that you, of all people, don't
0:15:37have a smartphone.
0:15:38It's actually not funny.
0:15:39It's been explained many, many times.
0:15:40But anyway, people who are excited about it can be excited about it.
0:15:44But the point is, it's not like I felt as if I wasn't welcome in the group.
0:15:48Whereas that was the angle with the Google I/O thing where you're hanging out at WWDC
0:15:52and you pull out of your Android phone and you somehow feel like you can't participate
0:15:56in the group anymore.
0:15:59you're not allowed in, you're not with the cool kids or whatever.
0:16:03I've never personally experienced that phenomenon.
0:16:05Maybe I don't care enough about what phone I have, maybe other people don't care enough
0:16:08about what other phone I have, but I imagine it's entirely real, depending on who you're
0:16:12hanging out with.
0:16:13Yeah, I've also never seen that, but I've also very rarely ever seen somebody take out
0:16:17an Android phone, period, at WWDC.
0:16:20And I think in the groups that we hang out in, if we were hanging out in some abroad
0:16:23Android phone, I think our reaction would be curiosity.
0:16:25You would all want to know, show me something cool in that phone.
0:16:29Why are you using that phone?
0:16:30Not as a challenge, but show me the thing that that phone can do that the iPhone can't
0:16:34do.
0:16:35Again, not as a challenge, but because we're interested in, A, most of us don't want to
0:16:38know a lot about Android, and B, in the circles we travel in, if anyone we know pulls out
0:16:42something, we assume because they are someone we respect and are friends with or whatever
0:16:46and knows tech stuff, that there must be a reason they're using it and we would want
0:16:49to know that reason.
0:16:50I feel like curiosity would be the reaction.
0:16:53Yeah, it's like if somebody, you know, showed up to a party on an elephant. Like, okay, well, we all drove here,
0:16:58you took the elephant, that's on you. I haven't seen an elephant being ridden in a while, especially to parties like this.
0:17:04Please tell me why you were the elephant here, and can you show me, you know, can I have a ride maybe? Like, what's going on?
0:17:10Can I see the trunk?
0:17:12Sorry, that joke was too bad to pass up.
0:17:14A tangible example of this is, I went to dinner with Justin Williams and a couple other people when I was at
0:17:22And he's rocking, or he was at the time rocking a 5C, which that's exactly what happened.
0:17:28It led to a very brief discussion of a 5C, why not a 5S?
0:17:31What the hell is wrong with you?
0:17:32Why aren't you rocking a 5S?
0:17:34What makes a 5C so much better?
0:17:36And it was more about, you know, it was playful ribbing, but more about, "Geez, tell me why
0:17:41you prefer this because you're someone whose opinion I trust and I respect.
0:17:46you've taken what could be called a contrarian opinion or a contrarian position, tell me
0:17:54why.
0:17:55Or even, it doesn't even need to have to be contrarian, it's just unusual. Like,
0:17:58you're the only person that I've seen in this entire conference so far have a 5C.
0:18:02You know, out of curiosity, why?
0:18:04And the answer is because it's super comfortable and smooth on the back and everything. It's
0:18:08just a better form factor than the, uh…
0:18:10So, actually, I think that was pretty much his answer.
0:18:12And it comes in colors.
0:18:13That's it.
0:18:14Yeah.
0:18:15about something awesome and then we'll continue with follow-up.
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0:21:01And just for reference, I compared it on Amazon
0:21:03before the show, the price I paid for Gillette Fusion blades
0:21:07is like $3.50, $3.75, $4, so it's like per blade
0:21:11once you get the multi-packs and everything.
0:21:13So they're under $2 a blade,
0:21:15so they are really about half the price of Gillette.
0:21:17So really, what they've been able to achieve
0:21:21with pricing is pretty impressive to me.
0:21:23Anyway, get started with a set that includes the handle,
0:21:26three blades, and shaving cream for just 15 bucks,
0:21:30and that's including shipping to your door.
0:21:32They even offer a custom engraving option
0:21:34on the handle if you want.
0:21:36So thanks a lot to Harry's.
0:21:37go to harrys.com and use the promo code ATP
0:21:40to save $5 off your first purchase.
0:21:44- So we have some follow-up about the biomedical stuff,
0:21:49and then we also have some follow-up about iPhoto.
0:21:54Do you wanna cover that real quick, actually?
0:21:56- So I said last week that the way iPhoto did raw editing
0:21:59back in the day was that you'd have the first edit
0:22:03of a raw photo would be kind of losslessly operating
0:22:06and then it would bake that into the JPEG
0:22:08and then in future edits would lose
0:22:09a little raw badge in the corner
0:22:10and you would be working on the JPEG only
0:22:12and if you wanted to go back and do a real adjustment
0:22:15to the raw, you'd have to reprocess it and reset everything.
0:22:18Apparently in newer versions of iPhoto,
0:22:19that is no longer the case, which is awesome.
0:22:21So now in new versions, I've had multiple people tell me
0:22:23that, I haven't actually tested it yet,
0:22:25but I've had multiple people tell me
0:22:26that in current versions of iPhoto,
0:22:29you always get the raw editing
0:22:31if you're working on a raw file.
0:22:32It doesn't do the thing where it bakes the edits in
0:22:33after the first one and then you're working on a JPEG.
0:22:35So good on that.
0:22:37I got that wrong, and that's it.
0:22:39Got another quick one here about the alarms going off
0:22:44in hospitals and how things are always beeping because
0:22:48the devices don't know enough to know whether something is
0:22:50normal or abnormal, there's malfunctions and stuff like
0:22:52that.
0:22:53And Adam Gaines wrote in to tell us that the proper name
0:22:56for this is alarm fatigue.
0:22:58And we'll put a link in the show notes talking about--
0:23:01it's an NPR story talking about alarm fatigue.
0:23:03But it makes sense this is already a term for this
0:23:05because it's definitely a thing.
0:23:07- That's a nice term too, I like that.
0:23:08- We got notification fatigue on mobile devices, I guess,
0:23:12or on those watches that are always buzzing on your wrists
0:23:14every time you get a notification.
0:23:15Although I don't know how people deal with it
0:23:17with their phones.
0:23:18Like sometimes I briefly use someone else's phone
0:23:20and the thing is always beeping and buzzing
0:23:21and things are going off.
0:23:22Like I disable like every notification.
0:23:25Almost everything is disabled.
0:23:27- Yeah, I talked about this before,
0:23:29but I keep them so low that like I can sleep
0:23:32with my phone on next to my bed
0:23:34with the volume on every night.
0:23:35And I expect to hear nothing all night
0:23:36unless something is really important and happening.
0:23:38And that's, I've done that for years and it's been fine.
0:23:41And you know, I think people are criticizing
0:23:43these Android Wear watches for buzzing constantly
0:23:46and showing them all these notifications constantly,
0:23:48but that's not really the watch's problem.
0:23:50That's your problem as the user
0:23:51for having all the notifications configured.
0:23:54And you know, maybe you could say that the platform
0:23:56should add some kind of granularity setting,
0:23:58like priorities of notifications that,
0:23:59I don't know if they do or not.
0:24:00I'm assuming they don't,
0:24:01or at least the watches don't integrate
0:24:03with anything like that yet.
0:24:04But that's not a great solution.
0:24:06That's kind of a, that's like a programmer hack solution.
0:24:08That's not really a good solution.
0:24:10The good solution is to exercise a little bit
0:24:13more self-control over the notifications
0:24:15that you choose to receive.
0:24:16And if you don't want to have your wrist buzzing
0:24:18all the time, maybe it isn't important enough
0:24:20to have a notification for it.
0:24:22So that's really, like I don't, that's another thing.
0:24:23Like people are arguing, or they're criticizing
0:24:26these watches for that.
0:24:27It's like that's not really, like that's your fault,
0:24:29not the watch's fault.
0:24:30- The thing that really blows me away for like,
0:24:32iOS users are, most people don't read Twitter the way I do
0:24:35and that they don't read every single tweet in the feed,
0:24:37right, which is fine, that's a different way to use Twitter.
0:24:40But then those same people who don't read their entire feed
0:24:43have notifications turned on for their @mentions.
0:24:46And that combination just doesn't make any sense to me.
0:24:48You're not interested enough that you're gonna read
0:24:51every single tweet of all the people you follow,
0:24:53but you are interested enough when any random person
0:24:56@mentions you that your phone is gonna buzz
0:24:58and vibrate and bleep, are you kidding?
0:25:02I have no notifications for Twitter, I have no notifications for email.
0:25:05The only thing that could make my iPod make any kind of noise, I think, is iMessage, and
0:25:10I almost never use that unless I'm like @WWDC.
0:25:13How does that not make sense?
0:25:15Because I don't necessarily care about the crap that everyone else is shouting into the
0:25:20world.
0:25:21But hey, if you're talking to me, I want to know.
0:25:23So you don't care—the list of people you decide to follow, you don't care enough to
0:25:26read everything they say, but anybody in the entire world, that mentions you and you need
0:25:30to know about it right now. Any jerk from anywhere has more control over your attention
0:25:35than the people you have chosen to follow.
0:25:37I mean, to be clear, I'm just playing devil's advocate, but yes. I mean, I don't think that's
0:25:41a surprising conclusion for any normal human to reach. Humans are selfish bastards, and
0:25:47that's what we're programmed to be. So it's all about us, it's all about me, me, me, and
0:25:53it's not surprising to me that people would skip what everyone else is saying unless it
0:25:58pertains to me.
0:25:59Maybe if people get very, very few @mentions, it's not a problem, but most of the people
0:26:03that I know do get a lot of @mentions, and I bet at least half of them are bad.
0:26:08So it's like you're running that Facebook experiment on yourself where you're making
0:26:11yourself feel bad by making your phone ring with a 50% chance that it's going to be someone
0:26:14saying something that's going to make you feel bad.
0:26:16But you need to, "Oh, now it's time for my phone to vibrate.
0:26:18I got to pull that out.
0:26:19Let me see what Random Jerk 123 had to say about me.
0:26:2250/50 shot, it's going to make me feel bad."
0:26:24Which is exactly why I recently came to the conclusion
0:26:29that having notifications for all @mentions is insane.
0:26:33And I am a completionist like you, for the record.
0:26:35But anyway, I instead have notifications only for people
0:26:39that mention me that I also follow.
0:26:42So the assumption here is that if somebody that I follow
0:26:46is mentioning me, the signal-to-noise ratio
0:26:48is quite a bit higher.
0:26:49I still think it's not a reason to be
0:26:51notified right now about it.
0:26:53You can have a separate view of your Twitter feed
0:26:55that shows you @mentions by people you follow.
0:26:57Like I can understand viewing your feed, filtering your feed that way to show you stuff, but
0:27:01it's not a reason to, like I don't need to know right now that someone @ mentioned me
0:27:05on Twitter, right?
0:27:06If I was, if I'm in the middle of reading Twitter, then fine, but like just, I, again,
0:27:10I have a low tolerance for anything making my phone vibrate unless it's like a family
0:27:14member giving me information I need to have right now.
0:27:16Unless it's basically the equivalent of a phone call, the modern day equivalent of a
0:27:19phone call where it's like real, real time information that I need to know now.
0:27:23Whereas even if it's someone I follow and they @ mentioned me, I don't need to know
0:27:26that now. Well you're much you have much more self-control than I do and I and I
0:27:31need to be more like you and I'm not saying that to patronize you. I feel
0:27:36like I want to know if somebody's talking to me because I feel like
0:27:39Twitter's just a half step less important than a text message which goes
0:27:43back to my appearance on IRL talk but but I I should turn off all @mention
0:27:48notifications but I don't know I just I want to know I want to know if
0:27:51somebody's talking about me. You'll find out when you when you have a chance to
0:27:54look at twitter then you will see what they had to say about you but you need to know this second i
0:27:58mean i would just again it gets back to just i have so few notifications turned on at all period
0:28:03like there is very little that happens on my phone that i think requires me to service it immediately
0:28:09like it's like it's servicing an interrupt you know not that kind of service interrupt service
0:28:14routine anyway to be clear i don't have sounds on so it shows up on my home screen but i don't have
0:28:22have any sort of buzzing or anything like that.
0:28:25- Yeah, I'm actually, so Overcast has push notifications
0:28:29for the episodes, and the way it works is I send
0:28:31a content available push, which is silent,
0:28:33which doesn't alert the user.
0:28:34The app wakes up, downloads new stuff,
0:28:36and if there's something new that the user
0:28:38should be notified about, it shows a local notification.
0:28:41And I actually intentionally set no sound for it,
0:28:46and so far in the beta, no one has said anything about that,
0:28:48and I'm wondering--
0:28:50- I was gonna mention that to you,
0:28:51but I didn't want to report bugs in the podcast.
0:28:53But I don't, well actually this may be a separate thing.
0:28:55I'll be listening to a podcast, right?
0:28:57And then the sound will duck,
0:28:59as in, you know, go lower volume, briefly.
0:29:02And that is my cue to know that some notification
0:29:04has happened on my system.
0:29:05But I don't know what notification it was
0:29:07because no banner goes down
0:29:08'cause I have no notifications turned on,
0:29:09but I know that something has happened.
0:29:11And so frequently I will pause the audio,
0:29:13go back and see that that was a message or something.
0:29:15And is that because my settings are screwed up
0:29:17that it didn't make any noise?
0:29:18The audio ducked, so clearly Overcast
0:29:20knew that something was happening.
0:29:21but no other noise came through my headphones.
0:29:23- Well, that one's not, thank God that's not my bug.
0:29:25In fact, not only is that not my bug,
0:29:27but applications don't even get a notification
0:29:29when they're being ducked.
0:29:30Like, I can't really do anything in response to that.
0:29:33- So am I supposed to be here?
0:29:34Like, in theory, am I supposed to be hearing something?
0:29:37- Probably, but fortunately that's not my bug.
0:29:39- All right, well anyway, the ducking audio,
0:29:41at first I thought there was like
0:29:42a podcast production problem.
0:29:44Like, boy, you know, in our podcast
0:29:46or someone else's like, oh, why the audio ducking?
0:29:48But now I learned that it's something else
0:29:49going on in my phone.
0:29:50Anyway, notifications suck.
0:29:52(laughing)
0:29:54- Tell me how you really feel.
0:29:55Don't hold back.
0:29:56- We are also sponsored this week by our friends
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0:32:15Do we want to do this biomedical stuff and follow up?
0:32:18We should read it. It's brief. This is Ben Griffell who wrote it before, and he's correcting
0:32:23himself, so I think that in that spirit…
0:32:25He could have a podcast.
0:32:27Yeah.
0:32:28He could do follow-up.
0:32:29Yeah, I'm just going to read it because it's fairly concise. "There are a few
0:32:32watches out there that can determine your heart rate optically using infrared light
0:32:35shine through your skin.
0:32:42Some reviews suggest this method works fairly well.
0:32:44This changes the equation about what you can and can't do with the watches.
0:32:47Long-term continuous heart rate monitoring becomes feasible, which can give you all kinds
0:32:50of health information, including heart rate variability.
0:32:53It also makes the process of getting continuous heart rate during exercise much more convenient.
0:32:57However, a lot of my other points still stand.
0:33:00The bigger is, what can you do with this information, and will people really care?
0:33:03You can't use this information to diagnose or treat any conditions with FDA approval,
0:33:07and studies still show that for most people this kind of data just becomes boring noise.
0:33:11It might motivate some people to exercise in the short run, but long-term it just doesn't
0:33:14happen.
0:33:15This was a big point of his previous feedback that I didn't mention, like the idea that
0:33:18Fitbit and those other kind of tracker things, it's kind of like a short-term boost, but
0:33:22then people get bored of them and go back to their old habits.
0:33:24Which I don't think that's a slam on Fitbit, that's true of all diet and exercise regimes
0:33:28everyone eventually backslides, because that's the way people are.
0:33:33So he says, "I just don't see this as a big field.
0:33:35Easy to use home blood pressure monitors have been around for ages and they're not exactly
0:33:38flying off the shelves."
0:33:40The only thing I'll add to this, other than allowing him to do his self-follow-up to say
0:33:44that he was wrong about not having a way to measure heart rate, is that...
0:33:49Well, actually, let me read the second bit of follow-up, which is from a different person,
0:33:54is also fairly short before I go for the other tangent.
0:33:57This is from Josh Brock.
0:33:58He says, "The doctor..."
0:33:59This is the other person who gave feedback was a doctor, not...
0:34:02We had a biomedical engineer and a doctor.
0:34:04So this is Josh Brock addressing the doctor's points.
0:34:07The doctor that was so pessimistic about the potential medical use of health book style
0:34:11devices wasn't wrong, but he was thinking too narrowly.
0:34:14While one day's worth of data probably isn't useful or interesting, having a year's worth
0:34:17of prior data could be very useful.
0:34:19Physicians frequently know very little about an individual's healthy vital signs or long-term
0:34:22health.
0:34:24Most healthy people only have their heart data monitored a few times a year at most.
0:34:27Even people with serious health problems are typically only seen by a physician intermittently
0:34:30and only fully monitored while actually in the hospital.
0:34:33So being able to see a long history of data
0:34:36with long-term trends could open up new opportunities
0:34:38for diagnosis and treatment.
0:34:40So this is what we talked about a little bit
0:34:42in the last thing that while the information
0:34:45may not be particularly interesting to you
0:34:46or useful to you and may not vary that much,
0:34:49it does, if you have long-term information
0:34:52and your doctor can see that,
0:34:54whether they're monitoring it in real time
0:34:55or whether you just get dumped on them off of your phone
0:34:58or a wrist thing, whatever,
0:35:00It's kind of a better equivalent of the log books
0:35:03that doctors have people keep
0:35:04if they have chronic health conditions,
0:35:05keeping a log of how they felt,
0:35:07what they did in response to it,
0:35:09what medications they took.
0:35:11The doctors will look at that
0:35:12because they just get to see you for a brief period of time
0:35:13and what they wanna know is essentially your history
0:35:16and you just verbally telling them what happened
0:35:18is probably not that reliable.
0:35:20You keeping a log book, probably more reliable,
0:35:23but having a device monitor things for you is probably,
0:35:26I mean, aside from bad reading and stuff like that,
0:35:28the device's memory is gonna be better than yours.
0:35:30And if it's something that you wear all the time,
0:35:32I'm sure a doctor would love that
0:35:33in addition to hearing what you had to say
0:35:35about how you felt and what you did.
0:35:37The point I wanted to get to
0:35:38about these things not flying off the shelves
0:35:40is that we keep talking about Apple and wearables
0:35:43in terms of all the sensors they're gonna have
0:35:45and whether it's gonna have a screen or not,
0:35:47or whether the screen is gonna be a touchscreen or not,
0:35:48or what kind of integration with the phone.
0:35:51But one aspect of the wearables that we talked about
0:35:55way back when that we haven't talked about much recently
0:35:57is things you can use it for besides sensing your health
0:36:01and integrating with your phone.
0:36:02And one of the ones that I think should come back around
0:36:06if it hasn't already in the rumor mill
0:36:08is using it as a form of identity.
0:36:10Didn't we talk about that like months
0:36:12and months and months ago?
0:36:13- Oh, I don't remember, probably.
0:36:14- Having this thing on you as a way of identifying yourself,
0:36:19sort of like the location-based unlocking thing
0:36:22that the Apple patent was going around the news this week.
0:36:24Like basically, if you pick up your phone,
0:36:27you don't have to use touch ID to unlock it.
0:36:29You don't have to enter a code
0:36:30because you're wearing your wrist thing
0:36:31and that identifies you as you.
0:36:32And you walk up to your Mac, it unlocks the screen
0:36:34because you're wearing the wrist thing
0:36:35and that identifies you as you.
0:36:36Sort of a touch ID without touching type of identity thing.
0:36:41Because I think, not that I think this is a slam dunk
0:36:44that this is what Apple's gonna do
0:36:45with their wearable stuff,
0:36:46but so much of the wearable stuff has been focused on,
0:36:49ironically, not on timekeeping,
0:36:51not on being able to tell what time it is,
0:36:53But on saying this, something called a watch
0:36:55and what it's gonna do is measure your vitals
0:36:57and record them.
0:36:58And that just seems weird to me
0:37:00that it's such an incredible health focus.
0:37:02I mean, maybe not that weird
0:37:04'cause Apple does have the health kit thing,
0:37:05but they also have HomeKit
0:37:07and no one is talking about using your wrist thing
0:37:08as a way to turn on lights as you wander through your house
0:37:10or open your garage door as you drive up or whatever.
0:37:13I don't know.
0:37:15Just throwing that out there
0:37:16so we can get in every possibility
0:37:18before Apple releases something that's wearable
0:37:20and then we can say, "See, we talked about that
0:37:22on some show in the past.
0:37:24- To me this is like yet another thing
0:37:26that is not a very compelling justification
0:37:29for these devices to exist.
0:37:30It's like yet another thing where, okay,
0:37:32well first of all, there are some security issues with that.
0:37:35(laughs)
0:37:36There's also some creepiness issues
0:37:38if this becomes your identity.
0:37:40And I don't know, it solves problems
0:37:43that most people I don't think really have
0:37:46in ways that are substantial enough
0:37:48where the gains will be big enough
0:37:50that it would be worth having another thing
0:37:52to maintain, buy, and charge.
0:37:54- Well, I mean, you assume there would be some combination.
0:37:56But what did you think about that patent, though,
0:37:58for the location-based thing?
0:37:59Basically, not having to enter your unlock code
0:38:01or use Touch ID when you're in your house with your phone
0:38:02or something like that.
0:38:03Is that something you think is worthwhile?
0:38:05- Oh, hell yeah.
0:38:06I'm already using that with my Mac,
0:38:07with Control Plane, Control P-L-A-N-E.
0:38:11If I remember, we'll put a link in the show notes.
0:38:13But I think the slogan they use is context-aware computing,
0:38:19Which I may have talked about in the past on the show, but supposed to say based on
0:38:23like the network address I have based on what device, what external monitor I'm
0:38:28connected to based on what Bluetooth devices are nearby, this thing will
0:38:32basically perform, perform a series of macros to turn on or off my screen
0:38:38saver password, or to set a default printer or things like that.
0:38:42And it's wonderful.
0:38:43And I love it because when I come home after work, It will automatically
0:38:47figure out, Oh, he's at home now.
0:38:48Well, let me turn off VMware Fusion.
0:38:50Let me turn off Outlook.
0:38:51Let me turn off Link, which has probably crashed anyway,
0:38:54and so on.
0:38:55And it's wonderful.
0:38:56And I really love it.
0:38:57And I'd love to have that for my phone.
0:38:59And Marco, you talked about that not being a particularly
0:39:01compelling benefit.
0:39:02In and of itself, perhaps not.
0:39:03But just think of how life-changing
0:39:05it was when you all got proximity
0:39:06keys for your fancy German cars, right?
0:39:08And how you don't want to go back to having to fish out
0:39:11a key and stick it-- you know, like, it's not that big a deal.
0:39:15But it's a big enough deal that you have trouble
0:39:17going back to that type of thing.
0:39:19And if you are in, you know, it's kind of like Touch ID.
0:39:22Like I'm a pretty big Touch ID convert, despite the fact that I don't have a Touch ID device.
0:39:25Every time I pick up my wife's phone, I don't even know her security code thing.
0:39:30I just have my one thumb encoded on the thing, and I have a very high success rate with Touch
0:39:35ID.
0:39:36And it's much better than me having to ask her where her code is and then never remembering
0:39:40it the next time or have her unlock the thing or whatever.
0:39:42I just pick it up and use the Touch thing.
0:39:44If I'm not gonna say this is a reason I'm gonna wear a thing around my wrist
0:39:48But presumably there's other reasons that you're gonna wear whatever this wearable thing is if this is there on top of everything else
0:39:54Like I would definitely use it. I'm sick of typing in my password to unlock my screen at work. I think it's ridiculous
0:40:00I mean you have to have a screen lock because you know corporate policies or whatever every time I get up
0:40:04I I lock the screen dutifully and I have to unlock it when I come back no matter how long I'm gone
0:40:08I would love to have a thing on my wrist. I would wear it at work just for this one feature, you know
0:40:14But I don't think I would buy it just for this one feature.
0:40:17So anyway, Apple has to come up with a reason
0:40:19for us to all buy this thing and keep it charged
0:40:22and all that good stuff.
0:40:23This is just another possible thing
0:40:24because I definitely wouldn't buy it to track my vitals.
0:40:27So that is also not compelling to me.
0:40:29I don't know, it's gotta do something.
0:40:32Or it could just be another thing
0:40:33that Apple introduces that I don't buy, so.
0:40:36- Add it to the list.
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0:41:05I was at my mom's house for the day,
0:41:07and I wanted to listen to a certain album over Airplay
0:41:10to show her that AirPlay exists on her Apple TV.
0:41:13And I didn't have that album on my laptop,
0:41:17and iTunes Match, as usual, was failing for me,
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0:42:57- Have we ever gone through all three sponsors
0:43:00during followup?
0:43:01'Cause we still have a little bit more.
0:43:03I feel like we're in hypercritical right now.
0:43:06- Yeah, actually Tiff and I went back and listened
0:43:08to the Hypercritical on the first episode
0:43:11on game controllers, I believe they were two and a half,
0:43:13but we went back and listened to that
0:43:16on the way up to my mom's house yesterday.
0:43:18And when we pulled into her driveway,
0:43:22we were just finishing follow-up.
0:43:24(laughing)
0:43:25It was like 70 minutes in.
0:43:27- That's magnificent.
0:43:28So we have one last piece of follow-up,
0:43:29which is about the death of plasma.
0:43:31And I actually might have some thoughts on this,
0:43:34but Jon, go ahead.
0:43:35It's not really the death of Plasma because I think LG is still making Plasmas unless
0:43:39I'm not mistaken.
0:43:40But anyway, the story that was going around this past week was that Samsung is stopping
0:43:44production of its Plasma TVs.
0:43:46Panasonic already stopped production of their Plasma TVs.
0:43:50After Panasonic stopped, it's like, "Well, they were the best ones, but you can still
0:43:52buy Samsung."
0:43:53So those were the second best.
0:43:54Buy that instead.
0:43:55I think the Wirecutter updated their TV review things.
0:43:58They had previously recommended Panasonic Plasmas and eventually had to say, "Well,
0:44:02you can't get those anymore."
0:44:04So our next choice is the Samsung Plasmas.
0:44:08Now they're going to have to update it again because now Samsung's not going to be making
0:44:10them anymore.
0:44:11Like I said, I think maybe LG is.
0:44:13But yeah, the days of Plasma are going.
0:44:15There's a bunch of stories going around the web about mourning the end of Plasma.
0:44:18A lot of them were retreads of when Panasonic stopped.
0:44:21For all the people who care about picture quality, saying basically, "These TVs that
0:44:25are discontinuing have better picture quality than any TVs that have been introduced after
0:44:32them or that you can buy for any price anywhere, which is a shame. And again, plasmas do have
0:44:36their downsides. We talked about them on past shows. They're not perfect. But if you care
0:44:39about picture quality, many people are willing to put up with their downsides in exchange for
0:44:44having a better picture. It doesn't surprise me for the reasons I think we talked about in past
0:44:48shows. Nobody was putting in the money to try to make a 4K plasma, and 4K is clearly the future as
0:44:54far as television manufacturers are concerned anyway. It may not even be technically possible
0:44:59to make a reasonable plasma at 4K because the size of the little, whatever you call
0:45:04it, the little pits or thingies that make the picture images are so tiny at 4K that
0:45:09we don't really have manufacturing processes.
0:45:11I mean, they could develop it, but we already have 4K in LCDs and even OLED, which was supposed
0:45:18to save us from the scourge of LCD, that's kind of been back-burned as well.
0:45:22So it seems like we're just going to be LCD with LED backlights, standard high-definition,
0:45:29and 4K for the foreseeable future, which is kind of a shame, but I'm glad I brought my
0:45:35Panasonic when I did, and I just hope it lasts a long time.
0:45:38Did you ever even think about a 4K TV?
0:45:42No.
0:45:43I mean, there's no content available for it that I care about.
0:45:47And really, there is something to be said about screen size and viewing distance.
0:45:52And 720, 1080, I can kind of tell the difference between my seating distance.
0:45:594K, I don't know, I mean, if the content was good enough, maybe I could tell the difference,
0:46:04but nothing I care about is in 4K.
0:46:07Everything I care about is in HD, and I figure by the time things that I care about are in
0:46:104K, it will be time for me to get a new TV in several years.
0:46:13But I don't know how long that's going to take.
0:46:15I mean, 4K is a tougher sell than...
0:46:18Standard F to HD is a more compelling consumer case than HD to 4K.
0:46:23So it's up to content creators and television manufacturers to convince us that we need
0:46:28to go from 1080p to 4K.
0:46:32It was-- and look how difficult it was to convince
0:46:34us to go from standard def.
0:46:35And I think that was just like, as soon as someone
0:46:37sees a high definition television,
0:46:39if they have good vision or if they're
0:46:41into sports or something else where you care
0:46:43about small details, that's a pretty easy sell.
0:46:46But 4K, I don't know.
0:46:48I mean, I guess maybe--
0:46:49I haven't been to CES and seen the fanciest new 4K TVs.
0:46:55I haven't seen an OLED 4K TV of those things exist.
0:46:59So maybe they're more convincing, but I figure I have many years of service left in this
0:47:04plasma.
0:47:05Well, I tend to agree.
0:47:06And the reason I ask is my parents have just recently moved down to pretty close to where
0:47:11Aaron and I are.
0:47:12And so a couple of weeks ago, my dad and I went to a Crutchfield store, which those of
0:47:17you who were into car audio in the '90s probably know what Crutchfield is.
0:47:21And their home office is in Charlottesville, which I brought up periodically on the show.
0:47:25Well, anyway, we went to the store and looked at a few 4K TVs and we were looking for mom and dad's house
0:47:31Which the viewing distance or the seating distance what have you it's like 15 feet or something like that for where this is going to be
0:47:38and I
0:47:40Looked at these 4k displays a lot of which were curved by the way, which I don't really understand
0:47:46The whole curved TV thing. Maybe maybe there's a point but I don't get it. But anyways the 4k displays
0:47:52I mean they looked beautiful when you were a foot or two away, but I completely agree at 5, 10, certainly 10 and
0:47:58definitely 15 feet, I
0:48:01don't get it. And I'm maybe in five or ten years when content is available, I will get it. But today I agree with you,
0:48:09I don't understand.
0:48:10Well if you can make the screen the size of your wall or something like that because we have some if we have some technology
0:48:15that could you know or projectors or whatever like
0:48:184k has a place because eventually the screen becomes way way bigger, but for television set size screens
0:48:24Where it's like a thing that's sitting on
0:48:27You know some kind of pedestal or something
0:48:30it I
0:48:33Don't know 4k like I think a lot of it has to do with the content
0:48:36What kind of things are you trying to show but at a certain point?
0:48:39It's like when people get old their vision gets bad
0:48:41You can't make out that kind of detail on a screen
0:48:45that's only like, you know, 50, 60, 70 inches, and that's a pretty big modern TV.
0:48:50But in the movie theater, when the screen is gigantic, then, yeah, that resolution,
0:48:55you know, can be useful.
0:48:56Well, that's the thing, is we're looking at these, like, 70, 75-inch TVs, and, yeah,
0:49:01I mean, you can maybe make out a difference, and to be fair, my eyes are not the best.
0:49:06But certainly, at the 10 or 15 feet that Mom and Dad's house's viewing distance is at,
0:49:12I do not see the need, even in like a 75-inch TV,
0:49:17I don't see the need for 4K.
0:49:18And the other thing is, and you just mentioned this,
0:49:21we talked to the salespeople both at Crutchfield
0:49:24and at Best Buy, and we were like,
0:49:25so what content is 4K these days?
0:49:27'Cause this is well out of my wheelhouse,
0:49:29and I don't keep up with this stuff.
0:49:31And so they're like, well, some stuff on Netflix.
0:49:36And that's about it.
0:49:37And that's about all you get.
0:49:38- And even like what device can output 4K?
0:49:41- Right, exactly.
0:49:43- I mean, well, I guess the TV could have it built in.
0:49:44- Yeah, I mean, like my, for example,
0:49:46my audio video receiver has 4K passthrough.
0:49:49Like a lot of devices are 4K capable at this point.
0:49:51So in theory, if I was getting Netflix at 4K
0:49:54on a device, they could get out, but 4K,
0:49:57could, you know, the pieces are there
0:49:59that it's possible to view it.
0:50:00That's why Netflix is running these kind of experiments.
0:50:03The topically named Pan and Scan in the chat room
0:50:05has a point where 4K isn't just about resolution,
0:50:09but also, you know, we talked about this before,
0:50:11color depth and refresh rates and other parts of the 4K standard that are a step up from
0:50:16HD.
0:50:19I think they're even less compelling to consumers, but as an image quality nerd, maybe that's
0:50:26why I would notice more.
0:50:27Yeah, on my small-ish, by projector standards, 55-inch TV, the resolution difference wouldn't
0:50:34be that big, but the color gamut difference could be significant, assuming we get some
0:50:39kind of television technology that has reasonable black levels. So yeah anyway I
0:50:44don't think it's in the imminent future which is why I felt entirely safe buying
0:50:47a plain old normal high-definition television last year or whenever I bought
0:50:51this thing. Cool. All right. Do we have any topics today? Any other follow-up? Is this it?
0:50:58Are we done? Is this the show? Is this what people tune in for? So we saw a
0:51:03a YouTube video from somebody who I am not familiar with,
0:51:08who seems to have an iPhone 6 sapphire display.
0:51:15What do we think about this?
0:51:17- I mean, it's very impressive.
0:51:19Regardless of whether, there's a bunch of things
0:51:22we don't know.
0:51:23The big two are, we don't know if this is actually
0:51:26an iPhone part or a part for something else
0:51:28or a fake or something else, and we also don't know
0:51:31whether it's actually sapphire.
0:51:32- Yeah, that was gonna be my big point.
0:51:34- Those are the two big ones that we don't know.
0:51:35- My big point, that's why I put sapphire in quotes,
0:51:38because I have no idea if that's sapphire or not.
0:51:42Maybe a Gorilla Glass of that exact same thickness
0:51:44behaves in the exact same way.
0:51:46I don't know, I've never taken a piece of Gorilla Glass
0:51:48and tried to bend it or stab it with a knife.
0:51:50So I have no idea if this is impressive at all,
0:51:52or if that's exactly what all existing phones are like now.
0:51:56And I don't know how they would tell.
0:51:57I don't blame the person for not doing due diligence
0:51:59or whatever, it's like, I don't know how you would tell
0:52:01with sapphire, like a spectrometer or something.
0:52:04- Whatever is being shown in the video,
0:52:06whether or not it's a real iPhone part
0:52:08and whether or not it's actually sapphire,
0:52:10does seem to have impressive physical characteristics
0:52:12and does seem to have very good resistance
0:52:14to both scratching and bending.
0:52:16I don't know enough about either of these things
0:52:20to say whether that's likely to be
0:52:22a fancy Gorilla Glass product or sapphire,
0:52:25I have no idea.
0:52:26- Well, whatever it is, it's a laminate, obviously.
0:52:27I mean, like, even if it was sapphire,
0:52:29what they mean is that Sapphire laminated against something else that's flexible laminate.
0:52:33Like it's obviously some kind of laminate because you can't, I don't know if the glass
0:52:37ones are, maybe the grill glass is not a laminate, but anything with Sapphire I think would have
0:52:41to be some kind of laminate if you're using the screen.
0:52:43But I think the most interesting thing about this, even if you assume this is entirely
0:52:46fake is that it shows, I mean they didn't measure it, I wish they had measured it, but
0:52:50it shows a 4.7 inch thing presumably next to a regular iPhone to give you kind of a
0:52:55size comparison of like, well, it's bigger, it's not gigantic, but it does seem, it's
0:53:00definitely noticeably bigger.
0:53:02And they, I think they tried to show like a fake image on what the screen would look
0:53:06like, but they used the same number of icons as if the res was just scaled up.
0:53:10So I'm not sure what they were, but I put this in a category in the topics of iPhone
0:53:156 parts leaks.
0:53:16I haven't been pursuing parts leaks, but there's tons of them all.
0:53:18This is just the one I happened to see because it bubbled up in my feed.
0:53:21And to be fair, about half of them are this part.
0:53:23Yeah, and all sorts of leaks.
0:53:25And this guy also had a mock-up of what he thought the back could look like based on
0:53:28all of the leaked specs and leaked drawings.
0:53:33As is the case with most of the past iPhones, all these leaks, as the parts start to come
0:53:39out, I would think the idea that it's going to be kind of rounded on the back, kind of
0:53:44like the iPad Mini is, and they're going to be bigger, and 4.7 keeps coming up, and this
0:53:50thing if it's 4.7 inches is, you know, reasonable odds that it could be a part of some kind.
0:53:56We're starting to get close to the season where we start to see things that are real.
0:53:59So I don't entirely discount this either.
0:54:02I just thought it was interesting that it's not just, here's a picture of the part, take
0:54:06a look at it, like the torture test type phenomenon.
0:54:09I would like to see someone do that as soon as the iPhone 6 comes out, take apart an actual
0:54:13iPhone 6 and do the same experiments, do the same experiments with the 5S or whatever.
0:54:17where I guess this starts getting expensive,
0:54:18but maybe the iFixit people could tackle it,
0:54:20because I really don't know the properties
0:54:22of the existing parts for iPhones.
0:54:26- You know, I think it's very likely
0:54:27this probably is a real iPhone part.
0:54:31The timing is right, it matches all the things we've heard
0:54:33from general rumor, voting, it's matching all the stuff.
0:54:38It is very likely to be a real iPhone part.
0:54:40The big question mark is whether it's actually Sapphire,
0:54:42and you're right, whether if you took the same part
0:54:46or the closest similar part,
0:54:48the cover glass of an iPhone 5S,
0:54:51and did the same things, how would it react?
0:54:53What would it withstand?
0:54:54Would it be similar or not?
0:54:56The scratch resistance is one thing,
0:54:59but I think the real problem that needs to be solved
0:55:04in iPhone cover glass, if it's possible to easily solve it,
0:55:07is not bending, it's shatter resistance.
0:55:10Like what happens if you drop it on a corner?
0:55:14Does the glass shatter as easily
0:55:16or does it shatter less often?
0:55:19That's the problem people usually have.
0:55:20If they can improve that, that's big news.
0:55:24One thing to consider, and I don't know if this,
0:55:28I don't know what I'm talking about
0:55:29with manufacturing stuff, so who knows,
0:55:30but if they're gonna use Sapphire
0:55:33for the screen glass of all the new iPhones,
0:55:38the two new sizes, and backing up a second,
0:55:40there was on the talk show a couple of weeks ago,
0:55:44Gruber had Paul Kifasas on and they were talking
0:55:46and they were both kind of agreeing that
0:55:48they didn't actually want a 4.7 inch phone
0:55:50to be the new smallest size,
0:55:52that they both are perfectly fine with the current five size
0:55:55and don't want it to get any bigger.
0:55:57And so the question, if you believe that line of thinking,
0:56:00is, okay, well, is there a new four inch phone
0:56:05and a new 4.7 inch and a new 5.5 inch?
0:56:08The question is, is there a new four inch phone or not?
0:56:12And I think the answer is very simple.
0:56:14for anyone still doubting this.
0:56:15I think the answer is 4.7 will be the new small size, period.
0:56:20And maybe there might be like a 6S or a 6C
0:56:24that still uses the four inch size,
0:56:25but that's gonna be phased out in the next new model lines
0:56:28as the big size goes down in the line.
0:56:31I think 4.7 is the new size,
0:56:33and we're gonna have a handful of people saying,
0:56:35"No, I want my phone to stay small."
0:56:37And it's gonna be the exact same thing that happened
0:56:39when they went from three and a half inch
0:56:41to four inch with the five.
0:56:42there's gonna be those handful of people that say,
0:56:44"No, I don't want the phone to be any bigger than this."
0:56:47And a new one will come out, it won't be that much bigger,
0:56:50and it won't be a big deal,
0:56:51and it'll probably even be thinner and lighter,
0:56:53and so everyone will just deal with it,
0:56:55and everyone will forget about their complaints
0:56:57within six months, and that'll just be the new size.
0:56:59Anyway, going back to the beginning
0:57:01of this massive paragraph,
0:57:03if they're gonna use Sapphire for the screens
0:57:07of these new phones, that's a lot of Sapphire.
0:57:11it's really hard to properly communicate
0:57:15how much they have to make of this stuff.
0:57:17Just materials, supply-wise, like manufacturing.
0:57:21They make so many iPhones.
0:57:23Anything that goes into the iPhone
0:57:25has to be available in quantity.
0:57:28It has to have very high manufacturing yields,
0:57:30very high consistency, easily sourced.
0:57:34And I don't know if,
0:57:36I know they have that big Sapphire thing
0:57:37in Arizona or wherever,
0:57:38but it would surprise me if they could make enough sapphire
0:57:42all of a sudden to be able to be the glass on every iPhone.
0:57:46- Well, like I said, I think it's a laminate
0:57:48and it could be some deposition process.
0:57:49Again, I don't know anything about the manufacturing,
0:57:51but I think it's within the realm of reason
0:57:56that they could, because you're only putting the sapphire
0:57:59there for scratch resistance.
0:58:00Sapphire's not giving you anything in terms of bend
0:58:02or shadow resistance, I would imagine.
0:58:05But anyway, I don't think you have to make
0:58:06the whole thing out of it.
0:58:07I think it just needs to be the surface coating.
0:58:08Like it's hardness is this thing
0:58:11and then you back it by other materials,
0:58:12whether they be, you know, gorilla glass
0:58:14or some thin piece of plastic or something like that.
0:58:18So I don't know.
0:58:21If they keep saying it's Sapphire,
0:58:22if everybody's saying it's Sapphire,
0:58:25I don't know how they can tell.
0:58:27I don't think anyone is measuring it.
0:58:29I'm sure we'll know as soon as Apple introduces it
0:58:31because if it's Sapphire, I'm sure they will emphasize that.
0:58:34- Oh yeah, definitely.
0:58:35I just I was stunned by the
0:58:37Bend resistance. I don't know if that's the right word
0:58:41I'm looking for but the the way in which this handled bending which may or may not have anything to do with sapphire
0:58:46But my goodness this thing was bent a lot and didn't crack and certainly the scratch resistance was incredible
0:58:55But the the dude in the video noted that he didn't really have an appropriate way to test
0:59:02Dropping it on a corner, which is what you guys brought up a minute ago because he didn't have the rest of an iPhone
0:59:07To mount this thing against but I agree that that's the real test because pretty much anyone
0:59:13I know with an issue with their iPhone display or
0:59:16Android display for that matter is because they've dropped it in some way and it shattered
0:59:21Yeah, I've seen scratches on screens too like little nicks or whatever
0:59:24But I've seen like it's hard to notice them because they're small what you notice is the person using a phone with an actual crack
0:59:30in it.
0:59:31And no one is ever going to bend their screen like that, because if you bend it that much,
0:59:34the rest of the phone is broken now.
0:59:35It doesn't matter if the screen can bend that much.
0:59:38The printed circuit board can't bend that much.
0:59:40And so if you ever bend your phone that much, it's dead.
0:59:43But if you drop your phone into the concrete and it lands on a corner or smacks face down
0:59:46and it shatters, then you have the choice of getting the screen replaced or just sitting
0:59:51there as I see so many people doing and swiping their thumbs across fractured pieces of glass
0:59:56just to make you think they're going to cut themselves.
0:59:58Or you just spend 15 bucks at the Apple store
1:00:00and get one of those horrible stick-on screen protectors
1:00:03and just hope that covers it up enough.
1:00:05Might even hold it together a little bit.
1:00:07- All right, anything else on the iPhone 6?
1:00:10Oh, I should note, I'll answer my own question.
1:00:13I agree with both Gruber and Kefasis
1:00:15in that I don't want a bigger iPhone,
1:00:17but I think you're right, Marco,
1:00:18that the 4.7 or whatever, the smaller of the new ones
1:00:23I think will be the smallest high-end iPhone.
1:00:28And I think I can get behind a 4.7,
1:00:31but goodness, this 5 or 5.5 or whatever it was,
1:00:35I do not want that in my life.
1:00:39That just seems like a darn tablet.
1:00:41- I'm gonna have a very hard time choosing between the two
1:00:45if the screen size is the only substantial difference.
1:00:47You know, if there's something else,
1:00:49if there's rumors that the camera might be different,
1:00:51if the camera is substantially better
1:00:53one or the other, I will almost certainly get the one with the better camera.
1:00:56I can't imagine, just marketing wise, it would be very strange if the biggest one wasn't
1:01:01the best one.
1:01:03And so chances are the biggest iPhone, whether it's called the iPhone Air, the iPhone 6
1:01:11Plus, whatever, the five and a half inch iPhone if it's real, it's very likely to have
1:01:15the best of everything that Apple has to offer.
1:01:17And so it's very likely that some of us are going to convince ourselves to buy it.
1:01:20If the best one is the huge one, then I'll probably try it.
1:01:24And I'll take the bullet for all of us.
1:01:25I know, Jon, you're not going to buy anything.
1:01:27And Casey, you're going to stick with the small one, or you're going to wait two years
1:01:30and I can make fun of you.
1:01:32Exactly.
1:01:33I'm in and off here this year, so I've got another year to wait.
1:01:36Do we have parts leaks for the 5.5, rumored 5.5 inch?
1:01:41That's a good question.
1:01:42And still I see some parts leaks for that.
1:01:43I continue to think that, as Casey said, diversification, fine, but a new 4.7 size, why don't you just
1:01:50while keeping around the old 5S in a different case or whatever, or even in the same case,
1:01:55that's reasonable diversification. I'm not sure they need a 5.5. Maybe they're going
1:01:59to have one? Who knows? But I would like to see parts leaks for that. Because more or
1:02:04less I want to see what it looks like proportion wise and line up all three of them and show
1:02:09them next to a hand and see what that would be like.
1:02:12I don't feel like I have, and I think I've said this before, I don't feel like I have
1:02:16that much excess pocket space in order to stuff a five and a half inch phone.
1:02:21And for those of us who leave the house, ahem everyone but Marco, uh, that's
1:02:27kind of an issue and I don't, I don't have a purse, I don't have a man purse.
1:02:33And so my phone lives in my pocket and I don't think I want a five and a
1:02:39half inch phone in my pocket.
1:02:40I just don't.
1:02:41But whatever.
1:02:43We'll see.
1:02:44Remind me of this when I buy one in a year and a half or whatever, but sitting here today,
1:02:48I don't think I want that in my life.
1:02:50Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Harrys, Lynda.com, and Backblaze, and we will
1:02:57see you next week.
1:02:59Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, 'cause it was accidental, oh it
1:03:10was accidental.
1:03:11John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him
1:03:17'Cause it was accidental, it was accidental
1:03:22And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm
1:03:27And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them
1:03:32Follow them @CASEYLISS
1:03:37So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M
1:03:41E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N-S-I-R-A-C
1:03:46U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A
1:03:48It's accidental (it's accidental)
1:03:52They didn't mean to accidental (accidental)
1:03:57Tech podcast so long.
1:04:01Because Jon insists on using stupid Google docs for our show notes, I keep the
1:04:08show bot open in Chrome because Google, Chrome is my Google, what did you call
1:04:13quarantine?
1:04:13Hell, whatever you called it, Marco.
1:04:15Yeah.
1:04:15Well anyways, so, uh, about an hour ago, uh, somebody Hunter H suggested question
1:04:20mark in a box in a question mark in a box, which is because stupid Chrome still
1:04:25doesn't support emoji.
1:04:26It's ridiculous.
1:04:28- That is so evil of Google.
1:04:30- It is.
1:04:31- It's the real reason you don't use Chrome.
1:04:32- Open always wins.
1:04:33So I've been working on a very basic web interface
1:04:38for Overcast.
1:04:39- And why have you been doing that, Marco?
1:04:41- Because it had to be done?
1:04:44- No, it's because I whined to you about the fact
1:04:46that there wasn't a web player.
1:04:48- That too, okay.
1:04:49So anyway, some people whined to me about it.
1:04:52So I made a very basic web player.
1:04:56and I turned on content security policy in very strict mode
1:05:01so that it disables any of the things
1:05:02that begin with unsafe.
1:05:04Which the hardest thing about that is that
1:05:07you can't use inline style or script tags.
1:05:10- What?
1:05:10- Script tags were easy to pull out.
1:05:12Inline style tags are not that easy to pull out
1:05:14if you've already written a whole bunch of code.
1:05:16The advantage of content security policy is that,
1:05:21so for those of you who don't know,
1:05:22it's still pretty rarely used, I think,
1:05:25It's pretty new and pretty hard to use,
1:05:27but there's these couple of headers you set
1:05:29as a web programmer.
1:05:30You set a couple of headers, or one header,
1:05:32but three times to put all the stupid vendor prefixes,
1:05:35'cause web programming is awesome.
1:05:36And the header basically says,
1:05:40only permit JavaScript from these sources,
1:05:43only permit style stuff, CSS styles from these sources,
1:05:46only permit images from these sources, and so on.
1:05:49And the spec even kind of inherently yells at you.
1:05:52if you enable content security policy at all,
1:05:56if you want these things, like by default,
1:05:58it I believe won't allow anything,
1:06:00and if you want the ability to use
1:06:03like an inline style attribute on something
1:06:05or an inline script, you have to say,
1:06:07allow unsafe-inline, or unsafe eval,
1:06:12'cause eval is also unsafe,
1:06:13and like it's a pretty well implemented standard,
1:06:17or well designed standard I think,
1:06:19because it's designed to inherently yell at you
1:06:22if you set things unsafely.
1:06:24So anyway, so I've now made my entire interface with it.
1:06:29Yeah, it's a very small interface.
1:06:30It's a very small app so far,
1:06:31but I now have my thing where it only allows things
1:06:35from its own host and the host of the CDN.
1:06:40That's the service from the static pages, and that's it.
1:06:43And it's great.
1:06:45And I'm wondering, Casey, why don't you play with this also?
1:06:49Why don't you use this on Showbot?
1:06:50'cause it would help dramatically reduce the number
1:06:54of people who would ever be exposed to XSS on your site
1:06:58if you were to miss a vulnerability.
1:07:01- I probably should, but I don't need to
1:07:04because the show bot's still up.
1:07:05What now?
1:07:07- Well, yeah, but--
1:07:08- I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
1:07:09I understand your point.
1:07:10I probably should.
1:07:11To be honest, this was not something I was familiar with,
1:07:13so I'll have to look into it.
1:07:14- Do sort by votes first, please.
1:07:17- Yeah, actually, that's, yeah, please do that first.
1:07:18- That's a fair request, that's a fair request.
1:07:20sort my foots first.
1:07:21No, it's a cool standard.
1:07:22I learned about it roughly a year ago, I think,
1:07:25when GitHub enabled it.
1:07:27And the way I learned about it is that at first,
1:07:31like when it was very first implemented by browsers,
1:07:34most of them would also block bookmarklet execution,
1:07:38'cause that was a script that didn't come from blah, blah,
1:07:40blah, and the standard specifically says
1:07:42bookmarklets should not be interfered with,
1:07:44but the browsers all missed that the first time,
1:07:46and so it broke bookmarklets for a little while.
1:07:49But now, certainly Chrome and Safari have fixed that.
1:07:53Firefox was the last one to fix it.
1:07:55I don't know if they have yet, but who cares, it's Firefox.
1:07:58- Do you remember back in the day
1:07:59when that was lean and mean?
1:08:00I know we've been over this at some point, but--
1:08:02- Yeah, my name's on the poster when they launched.
1:08:05I donated like 50 bucks and got my name in the big ad,
1:08:08the big full page ad that they were running
1:08:10in some, maybe it was New Times, I don't know.
1:08:13Yeah, I was like a backer of Firefox,
1:08:15and I wrote Firefox extensions at my first job in 2004,
1:08:19which was a terrible time to write Firefox extensions.
1:08:21It was like, I believe when I started,
1:08:24it was still called Phoenix, whatever .7 was.
1:08:27Yeah, Firefox was awesome back in the day.
1:08:31The problem is the world moved on
1:08:33and Firefox really didn't.
1:08:36- Well, it became what it was trying to solve
1:08:38because remember Netscape was just this bloated,
1:08:41disgusting mess and so Firefox was all lean and mean
1:08:44And it was a small download, and it was fast as hell.
1:08:49And then, next thing you know, fast forward like four years, and it's the disgusting,
1:08:53bloated mess that Netscape once was.
1:08:54Well, it was standards compliant.
1:08:56In addition to being lean and mean, it was like, "We're going to write to standards."
1:08:59And they did do that, because all the browsers that supplanted it conformed to standards,
1:09:03with the exception of IE until very recently, and even then, still annoyingly.
1:09:07But it succeeded in that mission.
1:09:08It's just that other people picked up the mantle and moved on, because it's got the—Firefox
1:09:12Firefox has the oldest code base. Well, I don't know, is KHTML as old as Mozilla?
1:09:17Anyway, it's got it's certainly got the creakiest code base. The other ones have
1:09:20had much more recent attention to get them cleaned up. I mean, aren't the Mozilla
1:09:25guys trying to write a new rendering engine in Rust? That's why they're doing
1:09:28the whole Rust thing, so maybe they will rise again. But they did, you know, they
1:09:33became, they were the flagship for standards, and now we have standards
1:09:38everywhere and standards are what we want and IE-isms are mostly dead with the exception
1:09:43of the ones that are still supported by the versions of IE that we still have to deal
1:09:46with.
1:09:47So it kind of succeeded in its mission.
1:09:48So I don't think it died by getting fat and ugly and it failed its mission.
1:09:53It succeeded, it's just that now it's a little long in the tooth.
1:09:56I remember I used to use Firefox because Firebug was the best and only reasonable way to debug
1:10:02stuff on the web and it just gradually shifted off onto, for a while I was using Safari's
1:10:07dev tools when the WebKit ones were really good. Now I use Chrome's dev tools, which
1:10:10I think Safari covers all the same bases, but I've just kind of gotten to use it to
1:10:13Chrome's dev tools interface, kind of like where things are until they change it, I guess.
1:10:19But no, I haven't launched Firefox in forever.
1:10:22Yeah, I cannot remember the last time I've launched Firefox.
1:10:26I use it to post to Twitter when we make a new episode of the show, because I leave Firefox
1:10:32signed in to that account on Twitter, and that's it.
1:10:35You have a quarantine for everything.
1:10:37How many browsers do you have?
1:10:39- Well Chrome, I used Chrome for some other Twitter login.
1:10:42I forget which one.
1:10:43So I wanted to keep them separate.
1:10:45I really should just install the Twitter app again
1:10:47on my desktop is what I'm saying, but.
1:10:49- You don't have like Tweetbot on your desktop or anything?
1:10:51- No, I deleted it in a fit of productivity boosting.
1:10:56'Cause I use this app called Rescue Time
1:10:58that tracks how long you spend doing things
1:11:00and then sends you a report every week saying like,
1:11:02you spent 16 hours in Xcode, four hours in Logic,
1:11:05blah, blah, blah. And it kept telling me every week that I was apparently spending roughly
1:11:10four hours a week using Twitter. And that wasn't just one week, that was consistent.
1:11:18And so I realized, you know what, I should really not be spending that much time with
1:11:23it. And so to force myself not to spend much time with it, I deleted the complete app.
1:11:27Because it's one thing, you can just re-download an app, but with a Twitter app you have to
1:11:31into each of the accounts separately and that's a pain in the butt. So I knew that
1:11:35I knew that it would it would be a significant barrier barrier to put it
1:11:40back. I was actually just thinking about putting it back earlier today because in
1:11:44my effort not to have it on my desktop what I haven't said so right now I have
1:11:48my laptop which I still have it installed during during our show I keep
1:11:53tweet bot open so I can see replies coming in from people similar to how I
1:11:58have the chat window open. So during our show I have to have my laptop next to me
1:12:01over here as the second screen just showing Twitter.
1:12:04During the day, if I post a tweet,
1:12:06I still can post tweets from Notification Center,
1:12:10but I can't read the responses I get.
1:12:12But many times I have to have a conversation
1:12:14with somebody over Twitter DMs.
1:12:16And sometimes it's personal, sometimes it's business,
1:12:18either way, it's a way that a lot of people communicate.
1:12:20And so I frequently have to have the Twitter website
1:12:24open in a tab so I can use the DM thing there,
1:12:26so I can type quickly instead of using my phone,
1:12:30or like I'll have the laptop on this side,
1:12:32which is annoying, and then it's open anyway,
1:12:33and then it's just a different computer,
1:12:34and then I have to copy links back and forth
1:12:36between the two, and it's annoying.
1:12:37And so I have to, or like I'll ask a question on Twitter,
1:12:41and then I'll be reading the responses on my phone,
1:12:43on my desk, bent over, and it's just like,
1:12:46I'm jumping through a lot of hoops
1:12:48to still use Twitter anyway.
1:12:51And so my rationale is like, I should probably add it back
1:12:54because I'm using it anyway,
1:12:56just in ways that Rescue Time
1:12:58doesn't really track as easily, but I'm using it anyway.
1:13:01And it would actually be faster if I had the real app
1:13:04on my desktop again, because all these things,
1:13:06I wouldn't have to get up through as many hoops,
1:13:08they wouldn't be transferring things back and forth
1:13:10between devices, I'd be able to do things
1:13:12with keyboard shortcuts and type faster,
1:13:13so it's, I think I should just put it back,
1:13:17but I don't know.
1:13:18Isn't that really exciting, I love that, yeah.
1:13:21Lots of discussion about workflows.
1:13:24- Someone put in the chat room a link
1:13:26to the Wikipedia article showing the rendering,
1:13:27web rendering engine timelines among Gecko, KHTML,
1:13:32and WebKit.
1:13:33Gecko is slightly older than KHTML,
1:13:36and also older than Trident,
1:13:37which I think is what IE uses now.
1:13:39- The reason why I think most people abandoned Firefox
1:13:42over the last few years didn't have a lot to do with Gecko,
1:13:46and had more to do with the Firefox interface,
1:13:49being based on Zool, and having a whole bunch of crap
1:13:53being able to be thrown in, and having extensions,
1:13:55extensions kind of made and broke Firefox.
1:13:59They made it in that a lot of people used it for a while,
1:14:03a lot of people still use it because certain extensions
1:14:06are only there or even only possible there.
1:14:10But what made those extensions possible
1:14:13was that the whole Firefox interface is built on,
1:14:16I assume it still is, please tell me
1:14:17if this is out of date information,
1:14:19but was built on this big XML specification
1:14:23where the whole browser was specified in XML
1:14:26and had all these complexities.
1:14:27And that's one of the reasons why it never really looks
1:14:30quite native and never looks quite right on any platform
1:14:32and why it's very slow.
1:14:34Because it's basically a web page.
1:14:37And it's more complicated than that,
1:14:39but that's kind of the gist of it.
1:14:42It's specified in this very heavy customizable language
1:14:45so that it can be so flexible.
1:14:46So extensions can do anything.
1:14:47Extensions are written in the same language.
1:14:49Extensions can control everything, do everything.
1:14:52the browser was like this giant, slow interpreter
1:14:56to run all this crap, including its own interface.
1:14:59And that, I think, made Firefox feel much heavier
1:15:02and slower and more bloated.
1:15:05And it certainly made it look pretty bad
1:15:06that they didn't have very good design either.
1:15:09So it felt big and slow, it was big and slow,
1:15:12and it looked big and slow.
1:15:14And in the era where now everything needs to be efficient
1:15:16and fast and getting better and JavaScript getting better
1:15:18and everything's getting better and faster,
1:15:20and Firefox is this big bloated slow thing in the corner.
1:15:23- Yeah, hasn't been good in a while as far as I'm concerned.
1:15:27That's right.
1:15:28Hey, can we talk about something important?
1:15:30- (laughs)
1:15:31Your Showbot, my Twitter productivity,
1:15:33or Firefox, the most current topic in the world.
1:15:37What's more important than these things?
1:15:39- So what's more important than these things
1:15:40is what I just put in the chat room,
1:15:42which is somebody dynoed a new M3.
1:15:46- Can you translate to English for those of us
1:15:48who are not experts in this field.
1:15:50Does this refer to a dinosaur in any way?
1:15:54- No.
1:15:55So somebody put a new M3 on a dynamometer
1:15:58which measures how much power the car produces
1:16:03and they compared it to the prior generation M3
1:16:06which is from my generation and my goodness,
1:16:09you should see the torque curve on this thing.
1:16:11It goes from no torques, to use a top gear-ism,
1:16:15to darn near all of its torques in 1000 RPM.
1:16:19It's ridiculous.
1:16:20You're the worst.
1:16:24John, do you at least slightly appreciate this?
1:16:26Somebody help me out here.
1:16:27- The magic of turbos.
1:16:28- Yep.
1:16:29- So it is the magic of turbos.
1:16:31However, my car actually doesn't have a curve
1:16:35that different from this.
1:16:37And I can tell you it's mostly useless
1:16:39because if you actually give it full power at low revs,
1:16:42you just lose grip and the tires spin.
1:16:45Like you can't actually use all of your torque off the line,
1:16:49which is where I think it matters most.
1:16:51You can't use it all because it's too much power
1:16:54for two wheels to put down.
1:16:57- If only you had a four wheel drive M car.
1:16:58- I know, well there is one, but it's terrible.
1:17:00I wish they would make some better ones.
1:17:02- Don't you have launch control on that thing?
1:17:04- Yeah, how many times have you tried it?
1:17:06- Zero.
1:17:07Isn't the point of launch control
1:17:08to spin the wheels even more?
1:17:10- No! - No, no.
1:17:12The computer controls making sure that you get the car moving as fast as possible, so
1:17:17it's going to modulate the throttle.
1:17:18Does it modulate the brakes as well?
1:17:21Anyway, it wants to maintain friction, right on the ragged edge of you losing traction
1:17:25but not going over it, kind of like anti-lock brakes, in a way that you couldn't do yourself
1:17:30if you were modulating it.
1:17:31That's why most of the most recent Car and Driver, they have the Porsche 918 going to
1:17:3660 in 2.2 seconds.
1:17:38That's launch control.
1:17:39God, that's insane.
1:17:41To me, this is exciting.
1:17:43It's exciting in that the M cars keep getting much better
1:17:46and they're able to get this much power
1:17:48out of a six cylinder again.
1:17:49So the cars are getting smaller, lighter,
1:17:52or at least making the same weight
1:17:54and getting more powerful close enough.
1:17:55But they don't need more power.
1:17:57Power is not the challenge right now.
1:17:59They need lower weight and they need better traction.
1:18:03And I think they're pretty much at the limits.
1:18:05On the BMW side, I think they're pretty much
1:18:07at the limits of how much torque you can apply
1:18:09the two wheels and have it be reasonably useful,
1:18:12I think they need to move to an all-wheel drive system
1:18:14in the M cars, that's it.
1:18:15There's too much power there,
1:18:17and this is with the current generation.
1:18:19What are they gonna do with the next generation
1:18:21of these things?
1:18:22Where presumably the powers are gonna go even further up,
1:18:25and the weight's gonna go down,
1:18:27how are you gonna apply those power to the road?
1:18:30- Yeah, I'm not so sure you're right,
1:18:31but we'll argue about this forevermore.
1:18:33But to come back to what Jon was saying,
1:18:35so I'm attempting and failing, there we go,
1:18:38to put a link in the chat room of me this past--
1:18:41I think it was this past winter--
1:18:43in my car doing a four-wheel burnout in snow.
1:18:46And I took the video-- or actually, Aaron took the video
1:18:50using one of our iPhones in high frame rate mode.
1:18:54And if you look at the front tire,
1:18:57you can see it slowing down, speeding up, slowing down,
1:18:59speeding up, slowing down, speeding up,
1:19:01because the traction control is trying
1:19:03to keep me moving forward.
1:19:06And so it's a very fascinating video seeing it in slow-mo
1:19:09because I can assure you that when you see this
1:19:11at full speed, it did not look like
1:19:13that was happening at all.
1:19:15And as a quick aside, a friend of mine
1:19:17who has a chipped rear drive 335 said to me
1:19:22that he went through rear brakes extremely quickly
1:19:28because the traction control was just melting
1:19:30all the rear brakes trying to keep him moving forward.
1:19:34And I just thought that was hysterical.
1:19:35I don't think launch control does the same things as traction control, though.
1:19:38I think the idea of launch control is there.
1:19:40I mean, someone corrected me wrong, but it's not using the brakes as much as traction control
1:19:46on a slippery surface is.
1:19:48I think you're right.
1:19:49I think it's more about clutch application and how many revs you have when you pretty
1:19:52much dump the clutch.
1:19:54But I think at least in part it uses brakes in order to get everything moving forward,
1:20:02although an M-Card actually has limited slip, which I guess helps.
1:20:05See, now I don't feel bad at all about talking for like two minutes about my Twitter productivity
1:20:10challenges because now you've spent time on this.
1:20:13Well, you, I was never going to cut all this out.
1:20:16No, I want everyone to know how boring we are.