0:00:00You're doing like in-line and online.
0:00:02You know the one that started me nuts lately that I keep seeing online, meaning on the
0:00:06internet, is grown people, I guess, also intelligent people, saying "on accident."
0:00:14Oh, god, it's the worst.
0:00:15Oh, rather than "by accident."
0:00:17Yeah.
0:00:18And not ironically, not isolated cases, but just it's rampant.
0:00:23I think there's whole sections of the adult population that think that's a perfectly
0:00:26acceptable way to talk, and don't think anything of it.
0:00:30Most of them go there because the weather is nice. That's why they go to Florida.
0:00:34But the weather in Florida is terrible.
0:00:35Oh, no, it's—
0:00:36They don't go in the winter! They don't go in the summer.
0:00:38Right. That's the whole snowbird phenomenon. They go down in the winter to Florida, and
0:00:42then come back to New York in the summer. That's what my grandparents do. My Jewish
0:00:47grandparents that live in Boca Raton, like every other set of Jewish grandparents in
0:00:51the world.
0:00:52I think I'm outnumbered on this show in the pronunciation of that state, too, so I'll
0:00:54just let that one slide.
0:00:55Florida. Yeah, keep practicing. You're supposed to be a New Yorker now. You're doing a piss-poor job.
0:01:00I'm from Ohio, give me a break. I know, I know. Oh, Tiff's supposed to whip you into shape.
0:01:04I don't even speak well for an Ohioan if it makes you feel any better. No, no, you're just a,
0:01:09you're a mongrel without a home. I'm supposed to say, I think, I think being from Ohio,
0:01:13I'm supposed to say things like "warsh" and the shopping cart is a "buggy." No, but you do say,
0:01:18you do say the word- Get my groceries and some sacks. You say the word q-u-e-r-y, like either
0:01:23either an Ohioan or a Pennsylvania.
0:01:26Crazy person.
0:01:27Or a crazy person.
0:01:28Yeah, it's not "query," it's "query."
0:01:30It's what?
0:01:31Oh, forget it.
0:01:32We're not going to do word pronunciation.
0:01:35We have follow-up to get through here.
0:01:37Let's do some follow-up.
0:01:38The very first item is an ancient follow-up that we never managed to mention.
0:01:41I think one past show I was saying how I couldn't figure out what version of Bugshot I was running
0:01:45and couldn't think of a way to look up the version in the app.
0:01:49And many people wrote in to tell us if you go to "settings," "general usage," and select
0:01:52app that you can see the version number. I could swear I did that, but apparently I didn't.
0:01:56So there you go. The iSCSI one I think we did address, so you could actually delete
0:02:00that one. The fact that even if you use iSCSI, you can't just take the drive out and put
0:02:05it in your Mac. It depends on the implementation of the enclosure, whether it has raw disk
0:02:10access or whether it uses some other intermediary layer. And NAS probably doesn't, but maybe
0:02:15just some box with a disk in it might. That being said, I still haven't tried iSCSI with
0:02:21with my NAS yet, so I still can't actually tell you whether, like, Synology does or not.
0:02:25Oh, yeah. We're going to talk about that today, eventually, someday. We have tons of
0:02:30topics, I know. Yeah.
0:02:32Yeah, we do need to talk about that. Did you open your present yet or not?
0:02:35I did. I could not resist.
0:02:37Oh, man, it's so good. But let's keep with the follow-up. Keep with the follow-up.
0:02:41We can save it for another show. All right. And so the real follow-up here is from people
0:02:44talking to me about backups, because we talked about on the "Three Phones Ago" show about
0:02:51the problem of preserving your photos on your phone or otherwise.
0:02:55The first one is from Ben Griffell, and he says, "One thing came to mind.
0:03:01What if backing up photos simply isn't as important to the current or younger generation
0:03:05of people?
0:03:06When you have a thousand photos on your phone, how important is any one photo?"
0:03:08I thought I mentioned that on the show.
0:03:10Maybe Apple's idea is, "Don't worry about it.
0:03:13Don't be such a pack rat.
0:03:15Take your pictures, enjoy them, look at them, and ten years from now, yeah, you won't have
0:03:19these photos, but so what?
0:03:21I don't think that's the case.
0:03:23I think it's really just that trying to deal with all of everybody's photos is just such
0:03:31a large-scale problem and has so many other problems that we discussed with things like
0:03:35upload bandwidth and storage, things like that.
0:03:38Videos are a whole other problem where these devices can capture new data so quickly.
0:03:46if you open up your iPhone and record a 30 second video,
0:03:49that's a few hundred megs, right?
0:03:51And something like that.
0:03:52- And something like that.
0:03:53- You know, it's these devices,
0:03:55and the photos aren't that much better.
0:03:57You know, if you snap a bunch of photos in the night,
0:03:58that could be 50 megs.
0:03:59- Photos are way better.
0:04:00I mean, I think, like I said, I'm sure,
0:04:02I think photos are in the realm of possibility.
0:04:04Video, forget it, like there's no chance of that.
0:04:06Just, I mean, storage capacity alone.
0:04:09You can't even store it on, you know, so.
0:04:11- Well, right, but. - For photos,
0:04:11for photos it's within the realm of reason, but.
0:04:13- But it's like a dirty problem to Apple.
0:04:16Like Apple, they know that they can't do online backup
0:04:19of all your photos and all your videos,
0:04:21even though these devices try to make those two things
0:04:23very easy to capture and encourage you to capture them
0:04:25and they put them all together in one big bin on the device.
0:04:29That's why I think like, since they can't really do it well
0:04:33and they probably won't be able to do it well
0:04:35for the foreseeable future of backing up
0:04:36all of your photos forever and all your videos forever,
0:04:39I think they just kind of say, you know what,
0:04:42you're on your own for that,
0:04:43even though whatever we think about that solution,
0:04:45I think that's the clear message from them, which is like, you're on your own.
0:04:47I think they would like to do it, they're just doing a bad job of it.
0:04:51And actually, if we—well, I want to get to this follow-up, and then we can talk more
0:04:54about some other things that have come up related to this.
0:04:57But—
0:04:58Technically, it's a follow-up.
0:04:59Yeah, but Ben's point is that maybe it's not important to the consumers, to the current
0:05:03or younger generation.
0:05:04Like, we're talking about if we're old or whatever, but maybe younger people don't care.
0:05:09I suppose that's possible, but I have a hard time believing that there's such a generation
0:05:14gap, change in values in terms of memories. It's true that the younger generations are
0:05:21producing much more of it, so maybe that makes each individual photo worth a lot less. But
0:05:26I think the idea that you'll want to see pictures from your honeymoon or your wedding or from
0:05:32when your baby was born or from when you graduated college or when you were in high school, the
0:05:37desire to see those and to preserve those in some form somewhere is not a generational
0:05:43thing. People will want to do that. And that's the killer. It's not so much like, "Oh, I
0:05:49don't care about the photo I took last year." It's 10 years from now, 15 years from now,
0:05:5320 years from now, you almost certainly will want to see something. Maybe not every single
0:05:57picture, but you want to see something. Maybe that would actually be a viable strategy of
0:06:01just thinning out your pictures as you go through the past, but I don't think that's
0:06:04reasonable, because I think storage capacities will increase so much that that won't be necessary.
0:06:09But anyway, that was one interesting point.
0:06:11Another one, this is both from Twitter, no one was email and this one's Twitter.
0:06:15Jared Tate said he said, "It should not be anyone else's responsibility but the end user
0:06:20for backups," he means.
0:06:22And he says, "Obviously it's too complex an issue to discuss via tweet," I agree with
0:06:26that, "but ignorance is not a good enough reason to force autonomous backups."
0:06:29So this person's position seems to be that, I was asking for Apple to take care of this
0:06:36and said, "It's not Apple's problem.
0:06:38It's not Apple's responsibility.
0:06:40The only person who has responsibility is the end user's responsibility.
0:06:43And ignorance, as in you don't know enough to know how to do your backups, is not a good
0:06:46enough reason to force autonomous backups, as in like it's like the state or the Apple
0:06:51or whatever forcing you or putting upon you this automated backup system.
0:06:56And there's no justification for that.
0:06:58I guess this person doesn't want Apple getting in their business or pulling their photos
0:07:01down or whatever.
0:07:04So there's a little bit of tinfoil hatery in here, but again, Twitter is kind of short
0:07:07to understand this.
0:07:09The whole idea that it's not anyone's responsibility, but the end user, there's a time for those
0:07:16type of feelings, but the time passes.
0:07:21It shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility but the driver's to figure out what the correct
0:07:25fuel air mixture is at a given temperature and barometric pressure and RPM and throttle
0:07:32position.
0:07:33Really, it's not really the responsibility.
0:07:35You know, seriously, drivers have to take some responsibility for themselves and, you
0:07:38know, what was it, they'd have like a choke knob or something they used to have in the
0:07:42car, right?
0:07:43Yeah, boats have those, right?
0:07:44Or they used to, at least.
0:07:45Right, yeah, and it's like, you know, that's your responsibility as a driver.
0:07:48You should not be pushing that off under the car manufacturers.
0:07:50But now that sounds crazy, right?
0:07:52You know, so the bar shifts.
0:07:54Like things that used to be the responsibility of the operator and people get self-righteous
0:07:57about like, you know, we were just talking about shifting and everything.
0:07:59Well, that should be the responsibility of the driver and it's fun to do and it makes
0:08:02you a real driver and so on and so forth.
0:08:04none of us would be like, "I really need to control the fuel injectors, because otherwise
0:08:10I don't feel like I'm really driving." I'm not surprised this guy even heard our show,
0:08:14because I'm guessing. I mean, what do you think the chances are that he's a desktop
0:08:17Linux user? I don't know. You can't tell from two tweets. It's a very difficult sketch voice.
0:08:23If he's a desktop Linux user, and we only encode this show as an MP3. We don't do Ogg
0:08:29Vorbis. And so I'm actually kind of surprised he has heard the show at all.
0:08:33Please email Marco.
0:08:34I mean, like, the idea—it's easy to make fun of that, of like people saying, you know,
0:08:41you should take responsibility. Like, because we've all had that feeling, especially when
0:08:44we're younger, at certain points of like that these skills that you have that you're
0:08:49proud of that other people don't have, they don't deserve the benefits that come with
0:08:52that skill. So if you can't figure out how to do your own backups, fine. It's not Apple's
0:08:55problem to solve your problem, you know. It's a kind of a nanny state kind of, oh, they're
0:08:58to come and solve all your stuff. That's not their problem. That's your problem.
0:09:00But it's ridiculous. What do you think you're paying Apple for? They're giving you a device
0:09:06that does things, and every year it does more and better things. Previously, it didn't do
0:09:10these things. You want them to solve your problems for you. If one of your problems
0:09:14is I'm worried that 30 years from now I won't have any pictures of my children, yes, of
0:09:18course. Is Apple a responsibility? No, they're not held at gunpoint having to do this, but
0:09:22they want to make a product that people want to buy, so you've got to give features that
0:09:25people want. So if this person doesn't want those features and is happy taking responsibility
0:09:29for his own backups, that's perfectly fine. But that's not how Apple stays in business
0:09:34and makes products that people want to buy, and I think he has a minority opinion.
0:09:39You figure there's also probably some—and I'm sure this is a relatively small effect—but
0:09:44there would be some effect where if somebody had some kind of horrible disaster, which
0:09:51really isn't that uncommon these days—let's say a phone goes down the toilet, lightning
0:09:54strikes their house and people break in and steal their disconnected drives.
0:09:57So all their stuff is gone.
0:09:59They get some new stuff from their insurance companies to check.
0:10:02They go to the Apple store, get a new MacBook.
0:10:05They log into their stuff and all their stuff is back.
0:10:07All their photos are back.
0:10:08All their kids' memories are all back.
0:10:11That could make them incredibly loyal customers for life.
0:10:14In the same way that, bringing in another car analogy, a lot of the people who have
0:10:19been in a serious car accident in which their car has performed extremely well in safety
0:10:23and really protected them. A lot of times then after that, they only will ever buy that
0:10:28kind of car because it treated them so well.
0:10:30Which doesn't make that much sense. And neither does the Apple thing. Really what you want
0:10:33to happen is for it to go past. That's the honeymoon period transition. You want it to
0:10:36go to the point where no one is overjoyed that their pictures are preserved or their
0:10:40house burns down, but they're furious if every single picture is not preserved. That's the
0:10:44next phase where you're like, "Everyone takes it for granted."
0:10:46That's true.
0:10:47And there's only a downside as a vendor. We're not even close to that. So you're right. There
0:10:50would definitely be a period, like I was saying in the last show, if you were the company
0:10:53need to do this first." Everyone else would be like, "Oh, I lost these pictures," and
0:10:57blah, blah, blah. And you'd be like, "Well, I don't have to worry about that because,"
0:10:59insert name of company or product or service, "that it's proven itself again and again to
0:11:03keep your crap."
0:11:04Lots of people are emailing me and Twittering me and saying, "Why isn't iCloud back up
0:11:09enough? Isn't that sufficient?" Except for the fact that you have to pay, which I think
0:11:12I complained about on Hypercritical Even Once. Making it be like a small amount and then
0:11:17saying, "Oh, you got to pay to actually back up everything that's on your phone," I think
0:11:20is cruel and stupid, but the money is what it is.
0:11:24And on the last show I said, "Fine, you can charge for it or whatever."
0:11:26But they're saying, "Well, all right, so if you charge money and you pay for iCloud
0:11:29back up your phone, isn't that a perfect solution?"
0:11:31And I was amazed at the number of people who came up with that.
0:11:33And I was like, "Children were born before 2007.
0:11:38Just screw them, I guess.
0:11:40Their pictures aren't on the phone.
0:11:42You didn't take them on the phone because you didn't have an iPhone."
0:11:44And people have these things called cameras, and I know they're so rare and stuff like
0:11:47that.
0:11:48And some people were saying, "Most people just take all their pictures on their phone."
0:11:50I know phones are popular, but I think people still have cameras.
0:11:54I think that is a big enough thing that you can't ignore it.
0:11:57People have cameras, and people have children born before in 2007 or before they got an
0:12:00iPhone.
0:12:01There exist pictures that are not on their phone.
0:12:03It's just not a tenable solution.
0:12:05Storage of phones is not increasing rapidly enough, especially if people are going to
0:12:09take any video at all, for you to be able to have your whole library on your phone.
0:12:12Even if your entire phone is completely backed up with iCloud and all that good stuff because
0:12:16you pay for it, that does not solve your photo problem for your family or even for your individual
0:12:20life unless you have no cameras and no memories that you care about before
0:12:25you got your first iPhone that you've been schlepping your pictures
0:12:29from one phone to the other. So I think that is currently not a tenable solution.
0:12:32Maybe in the future no one will have cameras and all the babies born before
0:12:352007 don't care about them anymore and they'll just be like, "Well, I'm, you know,
0:12:39I came of age in the age of the iPhone, all my pictures always been on my phone,
0:12:42every year I transfer every single one of my pictures to my new phone, they're all
0:12:45backed up on iCloud and I pay for it every year and therefore I'd never
0:12:49have to worry about my photos. But I think that is incredibly rare, and we're not there
0:12:53yet.
0:12:54So let me ask a stupid question of the night. Why doesn't Apple, with their $8 gazillion
0:12:59in the bank, just buy Crash Plan or – I'm drawing a blank on the one that's very similar.
0:13:04Or Everpix.
0:13:05Or Everpix, yeah.
0:13:06I just signed up for Everpix after the last show. I'd known about it for a while, and
0:13:10I'm like, "You know what? After that last show, why don't I just try out this Everpix
0:13:12thing?"
0:13:13Is it good?
0:13:14I mean, I don't know if I'm going to keep using it. It was like $50 for a year. I just
0:13:18paid for the whole year. I just wanted to see how they did. How long will it take them
0:13:21to get all my photos? How good will they be about pulling my photos?
0:13:23Everypix is a service, by the way, that takes all your photos and, like the name says, they
0:13:27keep them forever. Full resolution, they organize them for you, and they will suck them from
0:13:32any one of your devices. By the way, many people wrote in and told me that Google+ promises
0:13:35to do something similar. If you take it on your Android 4, then they get pulled into
0:13:38Google+. That'll be around forever. That's the thing I thought about with people saying,
0:13:43"Oh, Google+ will do that for you." Are you kidding? They have a long way to go before
0:13:48or I'm going to trust them to take care of all my pictures forever.
0:13:50Like, I don't even trust them to keep track of my email forever.
0:13:52Like, every piece of email that's in Gmail I have on my own computer
0:13:55that's backed up, you know what I mean?
0:13:56Like, they have not earned that.
0:13:58Whereas every pics, at least you said,
0:13:59look, that's their whole business.
0:14:00It's in their friggin' name.
0:14:01Like, maybe they're going to go to a business, maybe they're a startup,
0:14:03maybe Apple's going to buy them and shut them down.
0:14:05But clearly, for as long as they're in business,
0:14:07they are totally serious about keeping your pictures.
0:14:10And so I signed up for it.
0:14:12It pulled in all my pictures.
0:14:14First, I just let it go on my little library,
0:14:16and I saw that it was working.
0:14:17and then I said, "All right," and that was the free trial.
0:14:19Then I signed up for my account for my wife,
0:14:21because she's got the family iPhoto library on her computer.
0:14:24It pulled them all in.
0:14:25I mean, granted, I have a big upload connection,
0:14:28but it was pretty seamless.
0:14:29It worked.
0:14:30Their web interface is probably not how I'd want
0:14:33to manage my pictures, but it's interesting
0:14:34that if someone says, "Oh, where is that picture
0:14:36"of whatever," now, no matter where I am in the world,
0:14:38I can just go to everpix.com and find the picture
0:14:40that they're asking about and give them the full result.
0:14:42I did it already after I came back from my vacation.
0:14:45My mom asked, "Where is that picture of us
0:14:46with the grandkids because I hadn't copied onto their SD cards. We took it on the last
0:14:49day we were there right before we left, right? And she sent me that email when I was at work.
0:14:53I just pulled up the website, pulled out the high-rise pictures, emailed them to her. So
0:14:57I give the service a thumbs up. I still think Apple should buy them and just like, because
0:15:01again, they seem to have worked out most of these things here. Why doesn't Apple do that?
0:15:05Charge a similar amount of money, maybe less, build it into every iPhone. I know they're
0:15:09kind of trying to do the same thing with PhotoStream, but nobody I know, even the supergeeks, knows
0:15:14all the rules about how PhotoStream works, and we shouldn't have to think it should just
0:15:17be like Everpix. What are the rules of Everpix? We grab all your photos as soon as we can
0:15:20and keep them forever. That's easy to remember.
0:15:24That being said, though, it's great. I haven't actually used it yet, although I've heard
0:15:29great things. They even sponsored the talk show a year ago or something, and I heard
0:15:33that then.
0:15:34They're in Fireball. They didn't sponsor the talk show. They sponsored Daring Fireball.
0:15:36I thought the same thing.
0:15:37I don't know. Anyway.
0:15:38That's what Lex told me. What does he know?
0:15:41I think maybe there's a bunch of both.
0:15:43Anyway, I think it's a great service for the role
0:15:50you just described of having instant access to everything
0:15:55from anywhere.
0:15:56That's fantastic.
0:15:57That being said, though, I still don't
0:15:59think it's wise to trust any web service for the primary storage
0:16:04and backup of your photos.
0:16:06Oh, no.
0:16:06I wouldn't-- it's just like what comes after tertiary.
0:16:10Whatever comes after tertiary backup.
0:16:11That sounds better.
0:16:12Yeah, I mean, that's what it is, because I've got backups and local backups and have crash
0:16:16plans.
0:16:17This is one more, because is it cheaper?
0:16:18I guess it is cheaper.
0:16:19$50 for the year or something?
0:16:20It seemed cheap to me at the time.
0:16:22That's about what backplace costs.
0:16:23Yeah, but it was unlimited.
0:16:25It was so focused on photos.
0:16:26I like the idea that this would be an extra backup, because I'm willing to spend the extra
0:16:30money not to back up all of my crap to yet another service, but just like now we're getting
0:16:35down to brass tacks.
0:16:36What do you really care about, right?
0:16:37and I don't think it does any video, but like, I'll pay extra to have that. So like I said,
0:16:41when the year is up, I'll think about whether I want to do it again, whether it's earned
0:16:44its value, but I would definitely say like, "Oh, now that I've done this, I don't need
0:16:47to back up my iPhone library." No, no, definitely not. It's just, you know, it's another backstop
0:16:53against disaster.
0:16:54Right. But I think a lot of people wouldn't use it like that. Like, a lot of people use
0:16:58these things as primary storage.
0:17:00It would be better than nothing, though, wouldn't you be glad?
0:17:03Well, that's true.
0:17:04Like, if someone, someone, if someone who wasn't doing any backups before, and there's
0:17:06way you're going to be able to convince them to even use Time Machine because it's
0:17:09too complicated for whatever you're like, "Look, sign up for the service." At least
0:17:12then you feel like, "All right." At least you have some backstop. That's your version
0:17:15of Crash Plan for them.
0:17:17Yeah, but the problem with photos, as you said, you care less about a photo you took
0:17:22one year ago and more about a photo you might have taken 10 years ago. I got my first digital
0:17:27camera 13 years ago. I have pictures. I have a good number of regularly taken pictures,
0:17:36not like two or three a year like in the film days, but you know I have a good
0:17:39number of pictures being taken from the year 2000 forward and back then I mean
0:17:47first of all they look like crap because even though it was a really nice camera
0:17:50it was low resolution by today's standards I believe it was like 1.3 megapixels or
0:17:54something. No it was 2.0 it was very high end 2.0. But isn't that the awful
0:17:58paradox that these ones that you care about from ten years ago that... Oh they look
0:18:01terrible. And you care about them so deeply. Cry me a river mine were
0:18:05taken with disc cameras, remember disc cameras? Nice! Yeah, the floppy disc, yeah. Those were
0:18:10not like, I think each negative was like the size of my pinky thumb, pinky fingernail.
0:18:14Yeah, those are rough. But, but yeah, like, you know, I still have these in Lightroom,
0:18:19although at some point along the way I lost full resolution versions of many of them,
0:18:24and so I only have like thumbnails, I believe, like from Aperture six years ago or something
0:18:28like that. But anyway, you know, there's a whole lot of these that I really care a lot
0:18:33about and I would love to keep, and certainly the older I get, the more I will want to keep
0:18:38them because they'll be further away, more distant memories. But any kind of web service
0:18:45will never satisfy that kind of time scale. The web just doesn't work that way. I mean,
0:18:49it's hard enough to keep moving between computers.
0:18:51I don't know if that's true, though. Are you saying that no web service will be around
0:18:54that long?
0:18:55I'm saying it's very unlikely that a photo storage and backup service or feature will
0:19:02service or feature of a bigger service will generally be around for greater than 10 year
0:19:07time scales.
0:19:08But they don't have to be.
0:19:09Like, they absolutely don't have to be.
0:19:11All they have to do is have duplicate copies of everything that you have somewhere else.
0:19:15And when they go out of business, it's on you to find an alternate service to take to
0:19:19be your backstop.
0:19:20And by then, maybe some other backup service will come up.
0:19:22So you're not expecting a single thing.
0:19:24It's kind of like your data.
0:19:25Your data isn't expected to live on whatever hardware it was created on.
0:19:28you carry it along with you, and as storage increases,
0:19:31you just keep bringing it, copying it from thing to thing.
0:19:33So I envisioned this having various backup services,
0:19:36and they're either gonna go out of business,
0:19:37or I'll prefer one to the other, whatever.
0:19:39I will stop using that one or they will disappear,
0:19:41and I will take, 'cause that's my backup,
0:19:43I will take that data, which I already have a copy of,
0:19:45that's just one of the many backups,
0:19:47and put it onto another service
0:19:48and let it go out of another service.
0:19:49Like, I think that's a reasonable way,
0:19:51the only way, really, to bring your data along with you
0:19:54through your life is to constantly move it
0:19:56from service to service, hardware to hardware. So I don't think you have to worry about the
0:19:59longevity of the companies except within, like, you don't want to go for a company that's
0:20:02going to go out of business next week because then it was kind of a waste of your time.
0:20:05But other than that, I think I'm comfortable with that.
0:20:07Oh yeah, but we're nerds. We're okay doing that kind of management and redundancy and
0:20:12everything. For web services, you don't think regular
0:20:14people could do that? Mm.
0:20:16Like because they just sign up and then— Well, the problem is, if you're relying only
0:20:20on a web service, like, you know, let's say all your photos are backed up to Apple's magical
0:20:24that doesn't exist. Let's say it starts existing and all your photos are back up to iCloud.
0:20:29Let's say in four years, Apple stuff starts to really suck and you want to switch to Android
0:20:34or whatever is existing in four years. How do you do that?
0:20:39Yeah, well you stop using Apple services but you should still have all of your photos because
0:20:44they were just the backup. That wasn't the only copy of them that you had. I mean, that's another place where Google actually excels,
0:20:49good about letting you get your crap out.
0:20:51Granted, it is a little bit techy, but at least you can get it.
0:20:54With the online services, you just discontinue use of those services, discontinue use of
0:20:58those products, and when you set up your new thing, you copy all your old crap onto your
0:21:03new thing.
0:21:04If the new thing really is better and is smart, they'll probably have some kind of migration
0:21:08assistance.
0:21:09I think Apple even has a Windows migration assistant to grab your crap off Windows and
0:21:12put it on your Mac so you don't lose your Excel file that you keep your taxes in or
0:21:16whatever.
0:21:18I think it's just part of the process.
0:21:20Online services, I think, are the easiest to switch up,
0:21:22because it's usually just a matter of stop using a website,
0:21:25stop paying the bill, cancel hopefully through their website,
0:21:28and sign up for another one in a web form.
0:21:29That's easier, I think, than transferring your data
0:21:31with a migration assistant when you upgrade from one computer
0:21:34to another.
0:21:35It's not as easy as it could be, but I
0:21:41think we're within the realm of possibility.
0:21:43And I would be happy if everyone in my family
0:21:45just used Everpix or something similar,
0:21:46Because even though I know that's inadequate, I've tried to get them all to use Time Machine,
0:21:51and mounting and unmounting volumes is beyond the realm of normal computers, apparently.
0:21:59But that's why you get a time capsule, and it all happens magically through the air.
0:22:03Very slowly, but magically.
0:22:05I can't imagine time capsules sell that well.
0:22:07Think about the sales proposition there.
0:22:11Already, airport extremes are way more expensive than most wireless routers.
0:22:16And most people now have internet service, if they have broadband at home in the US at
0:22:19least, usually your internet service comes with a wireless router.
0:22:23Or they talk you into leasing theirs every month because they tell you that you need
0:22:27it.
0:22:29And so the market for wireless routers is already pretty cheap and commodity oriented.
0:22:35But then Apple comes out with a $200 router, which of course we have but nobody else does
0:22:40because everyone else is sane.
0:22:43And if you want, you can spend like $400 to get this one with this giant disk inside of
0:22:48it.
0:22:49It's a refrigerator toaster, because you're combining what with what?
0:22:51I want a router, and I want something like a network-attached storage backup thing.
0:22:56Those both sound like good things, but why would I combine them?
0:22:58Because then you're tying, "What if you want more storage, but your router is still fine?"
0:23:01Or, "What if you want a new router, but your storage is fine?"
0:23:04You're combining two things that don't need to be combined and tying them.
0:23:07Plus, they had a terrible reputation for reliability, and I still think time machine over the network
0:23:11is not great. But I don't know. Conceptually, it sounds good, but realistically speaking,
0:23:18the product wasn't great. And I think you're right. I think it's not that popular, because
0:23:21that's a tough sell. I guess it's probably for rich people who come into the Apple Store
0:23:24and they're like, "Oh, well, if you want the really good one, this will do your backups
0:23:28automatically." That sounds good to people in the store. Like, "Oh, I don't want to have
0:23:31to worry about backups. I'll do this." And most normal people would be like, "Yeah, but
0:23:35$400." But you got a lot of money, you're like, "All right." And then you'll regret
0:23:38it later.
0:23:39I have to disagree with you guys because if you, and okay, so I'll agree with the part
0:23:42that you said, well, if you have a little bit extra money, because yeah, they're expensive,
0:23:45but let's say you just got burned and you just lost a bunch of data and you're a Mac
0:23:49user and you just want the problem to be solved.
0:23:52What do you do?
0:23:53You find out that there's this thing called Time Machine and you need an external drive
0:23:57to do it on and you don't want to, you're not a fiddly kind of person, so you don't
0:24:01want to go to Amazon and get an enclosure or even get an enclosure with a drive in it.
0:24:04You just want one box that will solve all of these problems.
0:24:08And whether or not it actually solves these problems, I think to Joe Consumer, that's
0:24:13maybe just slightly more, not intelligent, but has the wherewithal to think about backing
0:24:19things up, I think a time capsule is a really good solution for that person.
0:24:24Now granted, technically it may not be the best, it's very slow, backing up over the
0:24:27network is kind of crummy, but if you just want the problem to go away, you just want
0:24:31to throw a little bit of money at the problem and make it go away, I think it's a pretty
0:24:34reasonable answer.
0:24:35But if Time Machine actually did that, then-- not Time Machine.
0:24:38If Time Cap did that, maybe you'd have a point.
0:24:40But I still think the price would be a big barrier there.
0:24:43I think it's easier.
0:24:43I think at this point, it's easier
0:24:44to sell people on spending a little bit extra for the iCloud
0:24:47backup than it would be for them to lay out ahead of time,
0:24:49even though the iCloud backup could end up
0:24:51costing them more over the long haul or whatever.
0:24:52That's not how people think.
0:24:54But the product just doesn't do-- it just
0:24:56doesn't do what they say it's going to do.
0:24:57It does not solve your problems.
0:24:59It lets you experience the joy of hearing questions of,
0:25:02that thing on my menu bar is always spinning.
0:25:04Is there a reason for that?
0:25:05And when does it say your last backup was?
0:25:07Oh, like six months ago?
0:25:08You're like, oh, time capsule, yay.
0:25:10If it had actually pulled it off, if it worked reliably--
0:25:18eventually we'll talk about NAS stuff.
0:25:20But the transporter, which I have now and I've been using,
0:25:24that works the way you expect it to work.
0:25:26It works as advertised.
0:25:27Whereas the time capsule, the whole thing
0:25:29is I'm going to do time machine backups to it.
0:25:31And it's not really the time capsule harbor's fault,
0:25:34probably, but many things conspire to make network time machine backups and time machine
0:25:39in general less efficient and good and potentially have the potential to get wedged.
0:25:45My new thing is that now time machine deals so poorly with when the disk fills up, it's
0:25:50such a bad judge of how much room it's going to need.
0:25:53Now I'm just sitting there with TMUtil manually deleting old backups because it can't figure
0:25:56out.
0:25:57It takes days to figure out, "Look, just delete half the backups.
0:26:01You're not going to make it."
0:26:02It tries again and again.
0:26:03and it goes all the way through, hits the limit, fills the disk, starts over again,
0:26:06goes all the way through, hits the limit, it just takes hours and hours for it to figure
0:26:09out that, oh, I didn't make enough free space. I know you didn't, so there I am, TMU chill
0:26:14deleting all day long, so I can finally get enough free space to make a complete backup.
0:26:18Now, that is absolutely painful. You're absolutely right.
0:26:20I mean, whenever I've, like, I haven't actually had the new, my Synology setup, I haven't
0:26:25had it fill up yet, because it's a giant disk in there, but when that does fill up, like,
0:26:29Basically, what I've done whenever my time machine fills up is I just format the partition.
0:26:34Yeah, wipe and start over.
0:26:35I do.
0:26:36I just delete the partition because it's way faster than deleting all the files.
0:26:38Just repartition the disk and start over.
0:26:42If I lose data during that time, I have backblaze.
0:26:47Time machine does do okay with small incremental backups, but if you use VMware at all—this
0:26:53happens at work all the time—any modification to a couple of my big VMs, and it's like,
0:26:57I got another three gigabytes to back up because you just touch lots of pages on these little two gigabytes stripe files to VMware
0:27:03Brights out and you just see time machine going like you are not gonna make enough free space for that
0:27:07I don't know why you're not going to but you are not going to and so sure enough
0:27:11It says oh backup failed then I manually delete but small backups like 50 megs 100 megs
0:27:16It can make it through it's the big ones where it loses track of stuff
0:27:19But yeah, there's lots of technical reasons. So a file time machine the way it does everything is
0:27:24inefficient and crappy and
0:27:26Like when it first came out like I'll give them a chance to doing a whole files at a time really inefficient and the crazy hard
0:27:31Link thing, but I'm sure they'll enhance it over the years. Nope. Not really
0:27:34Well something that is actually being enhanced over time and actually works is our sponsor this week Squarespace
0:27:43Of course
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0:27:56So,
0:27:59we use Squarespace for our site at ATP. Love it. It works. We use it for neutral or other podcast. Love it.
0:28:06It works. That should tell you something. You know, we can make our own platforms.
0:28:09We don't because Squarespace makes it just so awesome to just use theirs. It just works. They give you so much stuff out of the box.
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0:29:20ATP8 to get 10% off and show your support for our show. We thank Squarespace a lot for
0:29:26supporting ATP. They are everything you need to create an exceptional website.
0:29:31You know, you are the king of not trusting any of your stuff to anyone else, and the
0:29:35fact that you and we have trusted both of our podcast websites to Squarespace should
0:29:41be enough. Like, you shouldn't need any other ad read than that. That's all you need
0:29:44to know.
0:29:45I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you should host every website that you will
0:29:48ever make in your life on Squarespace.
0:29:50It's all about priorities and needs and values.
0:29:53The fact is, I would not have any provider of any blog platform be the only place where
0:30:01all the photos of my kid live.
0:30:03That's just not what these things are supposed to do.
0:30:05However, when I'm launching something and I don't have time to make a whole new site,
0:30:12whole CMS or install somebody else's and keep it updated and all that stuff or have like
0:30:16it's not part of the value it's not part of the value add exactly like and for most people for
0:30:20most sites that exist they don't need to be in anything custom they don't need to they don't
0:30:25need to be coded from scratch they don't need to be having their own installation of wordpress that
0:30:28somebody has to maintain like there's so there's so many site types out there like i wish every
0:30:34restaurant that i ever searched for would just have their site on squarespace because they all
0:30:39have these crappy custom-built flash sites from 10 years ago that don't work on any mobile
0:30:43devices these days and you're out somewhere, you went from a restaurant, and yeah, it's
0:30:46a disaster. There's so many categories like that. My wife is trying out Squarespace for
0:30:50her photography site. There's all sorts of categories where it just does not make sense,
0:30:56even if you could make it yourself, it doesn't make sense to hand code every single thing
0:31:00from scratch.
0:31:01Because no one's going to say, "Well, I was going to listen to that podcast, but this
0:31:03podcast does their website by hand." You can't even tell. The odds that you're, especially
0:31:08for most people, the odds that you're going to hand-roll a website that looks and works
0:31:10better than the Squarespace one are slim.
0:31:13And also, have you seen other podcast websites? They're usually pretty bad. I mean, Dan built
0:31:17something good at 5x5, but a lot of the other podcast sites out there are terrible.
0:31:21It's not a core part of the podcast experience. People just arrive on their phone or whatever.
0:31:26That's how it works. And we have to have a website, and it has to be there, and that's
0:31:28what the RSS gets to. There's reasons for it, but it's like, is that where you want
0:31:32to spend your time? The answer is, I'd rather delegate that.
0:31:36All right, anyway, what's next on our topic list? Because I have a few things I could
0:31:42bring up, but we have such a long list, might as well get through it.
0:31:44Why don't you look at the file like the rest of us? Why have you shunned the file?
0:31:47I was busy reading our Squarespace ad tab.
0:31:49Yeah, anyway, what do we have listed?
0:31:51Children, children. All right, I think the first item we should probably save for last.
0:31:56That makes sense.
0:31:57But, I don't know.
0:31:59Oh, that's going to be good.
0:32:02Yeah, that is gonna be good.
0:32:03Alright, so what else do you guys want to talk about?
0:32:05I don't know.
0:32:06Do you want to talk about if this, then that and Twitter?
0:32:10I read that article and the only thing I could come up with was to tease Panzer about something
0:32:13he wrote, but the rest of it— Oh, please do!
0:32:16Friend of the show, Matthew Panzareno.
0:32:17Yeah, writing for TechCrunch now.
0:32:20Yeah.
0:32:21Did he leave the next web or is he writing for both?
0:32:23He did.
0:32:24Yeah, he left the next web and got quite a promotion at TechCrunch, actually.
0:32:27Alright, well anyway, he did write that they didn't jive J-I-V-E with the new tweet display
0:32:33rules, and so I went to shame him for that publicly.
0:32:36Yeah, it's a jibe, right?
0:32:38Yeah, J-I-V-E.
0:32:39I just stay away from those words, because I'm like, it's like "whom," you know?
0:32:43And yes, we know who that is.
0:32:44Oh my goodness, don't even get me started on that.
0:32:48Everyone send Casey the oatmeal comic.
0:32:49Oh god, every person on all of the internet has sent me that link, and I appreciate every
0:32:56one of you for sending me that one.
0:32:58Well, Casey, this is part of being, you know, F-list famous or whatever we want to say we
0:33:03are.
0:33:04It's like, you have to—that angry feeling you're getting, like, you have to use the
0:33:10rational part of your brain to wrangle that, because each person who's sending it to
0:33:14you doesn't know about all the other people sending it to you.
0:33:17Oh, I know, I know.
0:33:18And it's not really—it's not reasonable to ask them, "Please, before you send me
0:33:22anything, check my @ replies to make sure 800 people also haven't sent.
0:33:26People are still sending me that pop art culture, whatever, poster you can buy of all the video
0:33:32game controllers.
0:33:33Oh, yeah.
0:33:34I still get that every week, right?
0:33:37Your inclination as a lizard brain, hairless ape, is to be like, "Stop sending me these
0:33:43things I know!
0:33:44Don't you know I know?"
0:33:45But the human part of your brain should be like, "No, they don't know you know, nor should
0:33:49they have to know you know.
0:33:51just trying to do something nice for you, so don't get frustrated.
0:33:53No, and it is nice.
0:33:54When you can actually not be frustrated, like, phase one is like being frustrated.
0:33:58Phase two is realizing you shouldn't be frustrated and tamping it down, and phase
0:34:01three is actually not getting frustrated.
0:34:03So I'm rooting for you to break through, Casey.
0:34:05This is like training meals for you.
0:34:07It is nice because, you know, it is nice to know that people think of me and that I, it
0:34:12amazes me that anyone thinks that I exist outside of the hour or two that they listen
0:34:16to this podcast.
0:34:17That being said, I got a million copies of it now, and I was like, "My goodness, this is a lot."
0:34:24One thing you can do, though, because you do know that we're getting it, is not CC us on them in your replies to those people.
0:34:29Like, when you reply to them to say something, you don't have to include me and Marco, because you actually do know that we're getting it.
0:34:34I usually don't. Sometimes I do, but usually I don't. I used to do it a lot when we--this is terrible, we should talk about something else.
0:34:41But all right well before we leave that they're like the other thing about this is the first person who sends it to you
0:34:48Actually is providing a service because before the first person sent it to you you hadn't seen it
0:34:53And then you had and every other person is doing exactly the same thing as that first person did so the gratitude
0:34:58That you should you feel for that first person should extend to all those people because any one of them could have been the first
0:35:02Person and if no one sent it to you you would be living a life not having seen that oatmeal comic unless you read them
0:35:07every day, which I assume you don't.
0:35:09Actually I do follow the oatmeal on Twitter, which was the worst part of all, is that I
0:35:13see this link fly by and I'm like, "Oh crap, I know what's up.
0:35:17Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom."
0:35:18And I'm getting like @ replies from the entire internet.
0:35:21I do appreciate it.
0:35:22It was funny.
0:35:23Did it help you learn or no?
0:35:26The funny thing is somebody had said to me a while ago, "Here's what you do."
0:35:30This was via Twitter and I apologize to whomever you are.
0:35:34Yeah, I think that's right.
0:35:37I apologize to whomever that is, but they said just substitute either he or him and
0:35:41figure it out.
0:35:42And if it's he, it's who.
0:35:43And if it's him, it's whom.
0:35:44Yeah, this is not a new thing.
0:35:45They've been teaching that in elementary schools for 100 years.
0:35:50Right, exactly.
0:35:52So I don't remember what you were asking.
0:35:55Did it actually help you?
0:35:57Like many oatmeal things, it's kind of a humorous rehash of things that people have seen before.
0:36:01It's all about the presentation and delivery.
0:36:03And people crap on the oatmeal for that, because they're like, "Oh, all you're doing is gathering
0:36:08humorous things from the internet and packaging up in an attractive form in a single place."
0:36:12Yeah, that's called entertainment.
0:36:15I don't get all the oatmeal hate.
0:36:17He gets so much crap, and he seems like he's a really nice guy.
0:36:20That's totally what it is, because his mistake was being honest about, "Look, I find things
0:36:26that are funny on the internet and synthesize a single funny thing out of them that hopefully
0:36:32is greater than the sum of its part, and people say, "I've seen that before," or "That's
0:36:36derivative," which is ridiculous because that's what all art is. He was just more honest about
0:36:40it, and that freaks people out.
0:36:42Also, he is really funny. I love his stuff. I have his picture about—or his poster about
0:36:48dogs. I have it on my bathroom wall. I love his art. I love his style. I love his humor.
0:36:54I think he's really funny, and he gets an amazing amount of crap from people. I really
0:36:58don't get it.
0:36:59Humor is subjective. Here's someone in the chat room saying, "The funniest thing about
0:37:05the O'Meal is that it exists, but it's not funny." Well, if you don't find it funny,
0:37:07you don't find it funny. Humor is subjective. I think the guy can be obnoxious, and if obnoxious
0:37:12humor is annoying, and if you don't find it funny, if you don't find the art style funny,
0:37:16you don't have to like it. But you're right. He gets a lot of crap, and I think he gets
0:37:20a lot of crap because he's honest about how he makes things, and it seems low class. He
0:37:25seems fine with it, but people are like, "No, I want you to do things, be inspired and completely
0:37:31original and not derivative in any way and not tell me the crass commercialism that enters
0:37:37into your calculus." That's how he makes his living. That's part of being good at
0:37:40what he does, and he's good at it. So like it or don't.
0:37:44So there's two funny things that come out of what you guys just said. Firstly, with
0:37:47regard to the oatmeal, I am the king of sending the "their" versus "their" comic to
0:37:54people because that drives me nuts when people confuse T-H-E-Y apostrophe R-E with T-H-E-I-R
0:38:01and T-H-E-R-E and that drives me insane.
0:38:03And so I've been sending these links to people forever and so really I deserve every one
0:38:07of these links and all the links that will come after I've made that statement.
0:38:11Do you converse with elementary school children a lot?
0:38:12Who's messing up there, there, and there?
0:38:14Oh, you have no idea.
0:38:15I don't want to know.
0:38:16Don't tell me.
0:38:17Do you ever read an email from anybody?
0:38:18Yeah, exactly.
0:38:19I only converse with people who have impeccable grammar apparently.
0:38:21What about the Itzes?
0:38:23The Itzes I don't blame people for anymore in the age of autocorrect.
0:38:27Because the friggin' autocorrect will always pick the wrong one.
0:38:29And you won't notice. You'll see.
0:38:31I notice.
0:38:33Even my fingers, my fingers type the wrong ones all the time.
0:38:36And I totally believe your fingers.
0:38:38No, it happens.
0:38:40The controller's broken, that's why I told you.
0:38:42No, no, no, my fingers type the wrong one.
0:38:44And I totally know the right one. I've never had any confusion about Itzes.
0:38:47I don't know why I never had any confusion.
0:38:49rule when I was in third grade and just never forgot it. Any confusion. And yet, they come
0:38:53out of your fingers like that. But there, there, and there, those are spelled entirely
0:38:56different. It's not like one key is different.
0:38:58Oh, it's the worst. And you're and you're. But anyway, the other thing I wanted to say
0:39:01is with regard to Marco having the poster, pro tip, if you ever happen to be in the Armond
0:39:07household, go to the bathrooms because that's where the best art is.
0:39:11Well yeah, because Tiff won't let me keep a lot of the best art in general purpose rooms
0:39:16so I can hide in the bathrooms.
0:39:17So you get the bathroom.
0:39:18Yeah.
0:39:19That's like a raw deal.
0:39:23You should get the computer room.
0:39:24Why isn't that the place you can put up your…
0:39:26Actually, I do.
0:39:27But unfortunately, I've filled up the walls in the computer room, and so I have to expand…
0:39:30That's your overflow gallery?
0:39:31Yeah, pretty much.
0:39:32I have to expand into the bathroom.
0:39:34So to speak.
0:39:35Overflow gallery.
0:39:36Oh, you don't want to call it overflow gallery in the bathroom.
0:39:39Oh my God.
0:39:40Goodness.
0:39:41All right.
0:39:42So do we have anything to say about if this and that in Twitter?
0:39:44I guess not.
0:39:45I didn't even…
0:39:46I totally missed that story.
0:39:47I read the article.
0:39:48I think there wasn't even there. You tell me.
0:39:50I just thought it was interesting that there, as I phrased it in the show notes, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G,
0:39:55just in that Twitter is allowing, or worked with If This, Then That, even more than just allowing it,
0:40:01they worked together in order to get that integration back. And I thought that was kind of cool, in a positive step.
0:40:07It's only a story if you think this is part of a turnaround at Twitter, and I do not.
0:40:11No, that's very fair.
0:40:13say not. I mean, if this, then that. They have funding and everything, right? And they
0:40:17have a staff, right? Isn't that?
0:40:19I think so.
0:40:20So the fact is, Twitter will give API access to partners. And so if you're willing to devote
0:40:27enough time and money into courting them with salespeople and relations and everything else,
0:40:33you can become a partner. And so it's not that surprising that a company with funding
0:40:39and a staff was able to convince Twitter
0:40:41to give them API access.
0:40:42And especially since they're really not in any way
0:40:46competitive with Twitter, and they
0:40:48don't look like they ever will be competitive with Twitter.
0:40:51Facebook being cut off from their products
0:40:53and interacting with Twitter and vice versa,
0:40:55that's because Twitter's afraid of the competition
0:40:58and of boosting some of the social network
0:41:00or some of the social network coming in
0:41:01and stealing all the following relationships away from Twitter
0:41:04and all the traffic and everything.
0:41:07if this and that is not really a threat at all. They're big enough that Twitter can
0:41:12make a deal with them, but they're small enough and narrow enough in scope of what
0:41:17they do that they're really never going to be a threat. It's very, very clear. They're
0:41:21not looking to take over and replace Twitter. It doesn't surprise me that they were able
0:41:26to make a deal.
0:41:27Yeah. All right. Do we want to talk about the gold iPhone that's not gold?
0:41:31Champagne.
0:41:32Is there anything to say about that?
0:41:34Why is it not gold?
0:41:35It's champagne.
0:41:36Is that, I'm keeping up on the rumors, did someone, did someone rumor that that is what
0:41:40they're going to call the color, or are people just saying that as a backlash against the
0:41:43really really gold-looking phones?
0:41:44They're saying it as a description of what the color is.
0:41:48Is there any doubt that Apple would call it gold instead of champagne?
0:41:51If they make a phone that's a goldish color, they're gonna call it gold.
0:41:54Like they don't do the thing of like calling it like "Midnight Mist."
0:41:57Really?
0:41:58Because the one in my pocket's called "Slate" or something, right?
0:42:00Yeah, but that's reasonable, but they usually, like, if it's gold it's gonna be gold.
0:42:04I mean the iPod mini was gold, they called it gold.
0:42:07I feel like if it's gold, they'll call it gold.
0:42:09The other thing that I was expecting is, you know, what was the, you guys won't know this,
0:42:14but the PowerBook G3 with the bronze keyboard, or was it a G3?
0:42:19I mean it was a PowerBook with a bronze keyboard.
0:42:22And bronze perfectly fits with the description of that color too, so maybe they could call
0:42:26it bronze.
0:42:27But gold, bronze, yellowish, whatever, they've made uglier devices before.
0:42:33They were, iPods came in like lime green and pink and like this terrible teal and pastels
0:42:38and gold is not outside the realm of something that Apple would make.
0:42:43If they make it, good for them.
0:42:44I mean even the iPod touch has come in pretty terrible colors.
0:42:47I would say, I would say the current yellowish green, whatever that yellow green color is
0:42:53for the iPod touch, that's a terrible color.
0:42:55It's hideous.
0:42:56Kids like it.
0:42:57But they make it and they sell it.
0:42:58Yeah, exactly.
0:42:59People like it.
0:43:00Obviously, all the rumors are pointing pretty solidly to this iPhone 5C having this plastic
0:43:07back and being cheap and coming in all these iOS 7 palette colors, or at least three or
0:43:15four of them. That looks pretty likely, and that makes a lot of sense.
0:43:20They just need to name it after a hipster beer, and it will sell like hotcakes. Find
0:43:24some beer that's the same shade. I don't know enough about beer as many marketers.
0:43:27some beer that is the same color as this phone is and there you go, call it that.
0:43:31The funny thing is they get so much crap for the, every, every phone that's come out pretty
0:43:35much since the iPhone 4, they've gotten so much crap for it not being different enough,
0:43:39not being new enough, not being innovative, all that crap, mostly for superficial reasons,
0:43:44mostly because they didn't change the case. Or even when the iPhone 5 came out, which
0:43:48was a massive change, people say, "Well, it looks kind of similar." Like it's, like
0:43:52people... It's a rectangle with a screen on it.
0:43:53They get so much crap for that. I think now that they're going to have what appears to
0:43:57be two different models with one model being totally new exterior-wise and the other model
0:44:04being the same, quote, as the iPhone 5, but having new guts, new camera probably, a new
0:44:11faster CPU probably, and having this extra color that's radically different looking
0:44:15from the other two. I think people will be very happy with this release. I think they'll
0:44:20actually say, "Wow, finally we got new stuff!" And then iOS 7 also looks very new in the
0:44:26software. I think this is an overall massive reactionary storm that's going to all hit
0:44:32at once in response to the last three or four years of everyone saying Apple wasn't innovating
0:44:37at all.
0:44:38Well, we talked to several shows back about if they could have an iPhone 6 as the new
0:44:41form factor, boy, that would really just bring it home. But they probably wouldn't because
0:44:47they're probably going to do a 5S, and that seems like, I mean, they've got to do what
0:44:50they've got to do. You can't just magically say, "Oh, you know what would also be great
0:44:54if we had a brand new iPhone 6, well, it seems like they're not going to unless they really,
0:44:57really surprise us. But what they have rumored, if all those rumored things are true, that
0:45:01is totally adequate, more than adequate.
0:45:04Now, what do you think, you know, my statement on Twitter a couple of days back was that,
0:45:10you know, it looks, because right now, iPhones, we can predict pretty well in advance these
0:45:16days because the supply chain to make enough iPhones to satisfy the demand for them is
0:45:21so huge and gears up so far ahead of time that it's almost inevitable that the supply
0:45:26chain will leak in the month leading up to a new iPhone. So that's why we've seen pretty
0:45:30much the entire iPhone 5C already. We've seen the back shell for the iPhone 5S and who knows,
0:45:38we probably wouldn't even recognize any difference at the front. So it's pretty obvious now what
0:45:43we're getting and what we're not getting. And so it is pretty obvious that there's probably
0:45:47not going to be a "iPhone 6" or anything beyond what we see as the 5C and what we see
0:45:53as the 5S online.
0:45:56So I tweeted a few days ago that it appears pretty clear now that we're not going to
0:46:00get a larger-screened iPhone this year.
0:46:03I think that's a mistake.
0:46:05What do you guys think about that?
0:46:06I think if they could have made a bigger phone this year, they would have, but they can't.
0:46:10When we talked about the bigger phone, we're like, "They've got to do it.
0:46:14It's going to happen."
0:46:15But we were like, "Oh, but can they pull it off this year?"
0:46:16That's when we started talking about the iPhone 6 and different form factors, but they can't
0:46:21do it.
0:46:22The 5C rumor thing is the new form factor this year.
0:46:25It's probably been planning a long time.
0:46:26It doesn't seem like they had a larger phone in the pipeline for now, but I'm not as down
0:46:32on them as it being a mistake as you are, because I think they can last one more holiday
0:46:36season but just barely.
0:46:38It would be better if it was out now.
0:46:40I think they'll survive as it is.
0:46:43I bet they wish they could have it out sooner, too.
0:46:45I know some people are giving you crap on Twitter like, "Oh, Mark, are we talking about..."
0:46:48I mean, the people who don't listen to our podcasts, because they think you're saying
0:46:51they're going to have one of those ridiculous, gigantic, holding up a lunch tray to your
0:46:56head things.
0:46:57We're talking about a slightly larger iPhone.
0:47:01Not even, you know, not like, you need the context.
0:47:03Right, maybe four and a half inches, right?
0:47:05Or maybe not even that big.
0:47:07You need the context of all those shows that we talked about this to understand that we're
0:47:10not saying that Apple's going to make a giant phone.
0:47:13that context, your tweet might seem silly, but we're talking about the "Apple needs
0:47:17to make a bigger one. It's not going to be massively bigger. They need it sooner rather
0:47:20than later. I think they'll survive without it." But I bet they're disappointed, too.
0:47:24I bet they're disappointed that they can't have a larger one now.
0:47:26Right. Because the fact is, they are definitely losing sales to people who buy Android phones
0:47:31primarily—not necessarily only—but primarily because of the bigger screens.
0:47:36Yep. I don't know. I feel—Hefney says you're right. Hefney says you guys are wrong. Firstly,
0:47:41As someone who has a 4S, I would kill to have the 5 form factor any day now, because I'm
0:47:47too cheap to get a new phone every year.
0:47:49You don't have to kill someone for it.
0:47:51It's a lot cheaper than that.
0:47:52Fair enough.
0:47:53All right, so I guess I'll just have to save my pennies.
0:47:55But no, you know what I mean.
0:47:56I'm really excited to have, even if it looks exactly like what you have, Marco, and it's
0:48:01just a little bit quicker, I'm very, very, very excited for that.
0:48:04Now, to be fair, there's no chance I'm going to buy an Android phone this year.
0:48:09I also think that you're right that a lot of people do buy Android phones and I have
0:48:13heard some people with iPhones on various degrees of the nerd scale say, "I might not
0:48:19go iPhone this year because I really want something with a bigger screen."
0:48:23So I think you're right about that.
0:48:24But I also think that a lot of the reason people buy Android phones is because oftentimes
0:48:28they're cheaper, especially up front.
0:48:31Instead of paying $100, $200, $300 or whatever it is these days for a brand new iPhone, and
0:48:35Granted, this is where the 5C comes in, and so on and so forth, in theory.
0:48:39But a lot of people today will buy Android phones simply because they're cheaper.
0:48:44We talked about that, which also goes back as well.
0:48:47What if the cheaper iPhone is also the bigger one?
0:48:50That seems like that's not going to be the case.
0:48:51Right.
0:48:52If that was the case, that would be awkward because it's like, "Well, if you want the
0:48:55bigger phone, you've got to get the slower one."
0:48:57It turns out that's not going to be an issue.
0:49:00The bigger, the slightly, ever so slightly, it's not much bigger.
0:49:05The iPhone 5 is kind of awkwardly dimensioned because they basically just made it taller,
0:49:09which is a really weird way, if you think about it, to ever expand.
0:49:12Can you think of any other device with a screen where the screen expanded in only one dimension
0:49:16in a significant amount?
0:49:18It's really weird.
0:49:19So, it's very tall and very skinny, and it's just like, "Could you just make that a little
0:49:23bit wider, maybe?
0:49:24Or just maybe a little bit bigger?"
0:49:25And again, not going to be the only phone they offer.
0:49:27People who want smaller ones will have smaller ones, I think.
0:49:30But slightly bigger would really help.
0:49:34I agree.
0:49:35And you know, a couple of things we're not considering, both with the gold iPhone and
0:49:38the size, is that we're taking an extremely American-centric myopic view of the world.
0:49:43And I wonder if, like I've heard a lot of reports that the gold or champagne color is
0:49:48very popular in China.
0:49:49I have no earthly idea if that's true or not.
0:49:52Please email anyone but me.
0:49:54But I've heard a lot of that.
0:49:56Someone in the chat room said a second ago that, you know, a lot of people in Asia will
0:49:59buy specifically around screen size.
0:50:02I don't know if that's factual or not, but...
0:50:03Well, you can just look at Samsung's sales numbers.
0:50:06They sell a lot of phones with really big screens, and people are not grudgingly taking
0:50:12the big screens.
0:50:13They like them.
0:50:14They want them.
0:50:15You can complain whether they should like them or not, or whether it's too big and phones
0:50:17shouldn't be that big, and Apple should take some sort of principle stand.
0:50:20People want it.
0:50:21Like I said, Apple, I don't think, is going to make something comically large.
0:50:25It's just going to go a little bit bigger, because people want a little bit bigger.
0:50:28I'd buy it.
0:50:29Yeah.
0:50:30you know, you figure if they made it a little bit bigger, they would have room for a lot
0:50:34more battery volume. And sure, the screen would take up more power because it would
0:50:37be a larger area. However, I bet it would not take up, I bet it wouldn't totally cancel
0:50:44out the battery increase. So I bet if they made a larger phone, it would have overall
0:50:48better battery life than the current five size models.
0:50:51Did you see that one guy who was tweeting about the internal changes to the iPhone,
0:50:55changes to the bus and stuff like that?
0:50:57Yeah, saying apparently the PCI Express bus might come next year to it, which would be
0:51:00be awesome. Yeah, and what I've said to the thing was
0:51:02that self-refresh is coming, which is like a feature—not that they're going to be
0:51:05Intel-based, but like the Haswell chipset. So the video hardware doesn't constantly
0:51:10have to tell the screen, "Keep displaying that. Keep displaying that. Yep, same thing.
0:51:14Keep displaying that." Instead, the screen can sit there and not
0:51:18keep getting signals from the graphics hardware unless the picture is changing, which is a
0:51:22big power saving thing. I don't even know if it's in the new MacBook
0:51:26but it's part of Intel's push with their Haswell chipsets for PC hardware, and it makes perfect
0:51:30sense to do on a phone. Anywhere you can get power savings. So maybe that's part of that,
0:51:35but yeah, the changing of all the internal buses, and I think this is probably where
0:51:38the Lightning Connector's design will pay off, because I'm assuming Apple built it so
0:51:41that when they do change all the internal buses, they won't have to have a new connector,
0:51:45a new, like, you know, like it's disengaged and isolated from the internals to enough
0:51:49of a degree that they should be okay with Lightning Connector. I'm hoping that was their
0:51:54plan all along and now we're seeing their plan come together.
0:51:56Because the lightning connector, it has enough pins that
0:52:00if you fudge the spec a little bit on grounding, I believe
0:52:04you can have a full USB 3 speed out of it at least.
0:52:08I believe you can just make a USB 3 lightning cable and it pretty much
0:52:12could work. And so obviously
0:52:16they made this thing, they didn't just make this thing to last two years. Obviously they made it
0:52:20it to last a while.
0:52:23That's why the little adapter has that crazy chip in it that's running the little tiny
0:52:27embedded OS.
0:52:28The reason they did that is because the old way was we just hooked up the connector directly
0:52:33to some hardware that outputted the video signal.
0:52:35That ties us to, "Oh, we have to continue to output that.
0:52:37We really need to just totally isolate this bus from the rest of the thing."
0:52:42And yeah, maybe that'll make it so our adapters have to be weird and stuff, but now we're
0:52:45not tied to the internal implementation.
0:52:47So that's the price they're paying.
0:52:49This is supposedly going to be the payoff of like, we don't have to change the connector.
0:52:52We don't have to bend over backwards to keep adding things to be sending out signals on
0:52:56all those pins, because that's what the old one did.
0:53:00We've pushed that responsibility upwards into the phone and the software and downwards into
0:53:03the adapter, and then this can just be a nice connector to send the signals through.
0:53:07Speaking of sending things out of your phone and into it, our second sponsor—I've got
0:53:12to figure something out.
0:53:13Look at you segwaying today.
0:53:14You're very good.
0:53:17Maybe. All right. It depends on how you define that.
0:53:21Anyway, speaking of things that we talk about in podcasts, our second sponsor this week
0:53:26is another return sponsor. It's Audible. Audible is the leading provider of downloadable
0:53:31audiobooks. They used to have, in our ad script, they used to say over 100,000 titles in their
0:53:37category, in their library, in virtually every genre. Now, that's been increased. It's
0:53:41over 150,000 titles. So Audible is constantly growing. It's a huge catalog that's growing
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0:54:11a free audiobook along with a 30-day trial. Go to www.audiblepodcast.com/ATP to take advantage
0:54:20of this special offer. Now guys, Audible, as you know, prefers if the host can come up with a pick,
0:54:28a recommendation of maybe a good book or audiobook that you've read/listened to recently. Do you guys
0:54:33have any picks for that? I do, but John, would you like to go? I have a pick as well. Do you
0:54:38Do you want to save my pick for the next time or do you want to do both of them?
0:54:42Ooh, that's tough.
0:54:43All right, Casey, go ahead.
0:54:44We'll save John's.
0:54:45All right.
0:54:46So, a couple of weeks ago when we were in the midst of our crazy recording schedule,
0:54:50I went to the beach for a few days and I read the book "Ready Player One" on Faith and Jason's
0:54:56recommendation from a while back now.
0:54:58And I checked and not only does Audible have the audiobook version of "Ready Player One,"
0:55:03which by the way is an excellent, very quick read, but they have the one done by Will Wheaton,
0:55:08which I have not heard, but I have heard through the grapevine, is absolutely incredible. And
0:55:13so I definitely recommend that.
0:55:15Great. All right. Well, thanks a lot once again to Audible. Go to audiblepodcast.com/ATP
0:55:22to get a free audiobook with a 30-day trial. Thanks a lot to Audible. All right. So, I
0:55:28want to talk about this whole fingerprint scanner home button thing.
0:55:32No, no. I think it's time for John to get angry.
0:55:36That's a good idea.
0:55:37That's way more interesting.
0:55:38Am I going to get angry about your recommendation of Better Player One?
0:55:40I just pasted into the chat room our incomparable episode about it.
0:55:43We did not like it as much as you did.
0:55:45Really?
0:55:46Oh, I loved it.
0:55:47Fine, I'll have to listen.
0:55:49We can argue about that another time.
0:55:51But speaking of you being angry about things, how do you like the new TiVo?
0:55:57I actually had an opportunity to review the new TiVo.
0:56:00I could have had it in my sweaty little paws and played with it, but I don't have time
0:56:06to do that for obvious reasons.
0:56:07So I have not even seen this thing in person, used it, done anything with it at all, because
0:56:11I don't have time for it.
0:56:13But in the messaging for it, I was glad to see that one of the items, one of the three
0:56:20items they were marketing, was that it's faster.
0:56:24Which is like, whether or not it's really faster, and at this point I have a hard time
0:56:29actually believing that it's actually going to be faster in the ways that I want it to
0:56:32be, or if it is faster, it'll be slightly less embarrassingly slow.
0:56:39At least they have figured out that this is a problem that we have to address and that
0:56:43we can't just not say anything about it.
0:56:44We're going to say, "Here's the new TiVo.
0:56:47It's got X, it's got Y, and the interface is faster."
0:56:50So I applaud them for that, because they have this thing.
0:56:52They do surveys of their customers.
0:56:56I forget what they call it.
0:56:57name for it or whatever, like a customer server, anyway.
0:57:01They ask you questions and you answer like demographic stuff that they sell to
0:57:05advertisers and stuff, but also you get a chance to say like, "What features would you like to see
0:57:09in the next TiVo, and do you have any general comments?" And I actually answer these surveys every month,
0:57:13like a dutiful little customer filling out the little boxes for all the movies I'm not going to
0:57:17see in theaters because I have kids. And when I get to the end part, I always say,
0:57:21"Please make your user interface faster. Please." Like, I should just save
0:57:25it as a text expander snippet or something. I'm like, "Please, for the love of God, make
0:57:28your interface faster." Whether or not they have done it, they have acknowledged that
0:57:33this is a problem and released this thing here.
0:57:36I was saying to Lex the other day that he should get TiVo to sponsor the show. I think
0:57:40a lot of people think that I hate TiVo because I have all these rants about it on old episodes
0:57:45of Hypercritical and everything. But I feel like someone who's a real Hypercritical fan
0:57:49and who actually listened to that episode knows that it's certainly not the case. Because
0:57:52despite all my yelling and screaming about TiVo, what I always say again and again, and I'll say it here again on the show, is
0:57:57it is the best DVR you can buy. I have them all over my house,
0:58:01I could not live without them, if someone took away my TiVo I would be very upset.
0:58:04Is it as good as it could be? No, and that's why I yell and scream about it,
0:58:07but it's kind of like Apple, like, you know, it's the first DVR worth criticizing.
0:58:11Like, I've been a TiVo user for ages, and so I think them sponsoring the show would not be crazy, and this new TiVo
0:58:17Looks to be the best Tivo they've made in a long time is it as responsive as a Tivo series 2?
0:58:22I don't know. I haven't tried it
0:58:25I can't say one way or the other but the very least they understand hey the responsiveness or you are our UI is an issue
0:58:30We should address that I'm disheartened to see all the other features that they're advertising because you know like oh now
0:58:37You can stream to iOS and it's got this thing built in it's got six tuners instead of four on the high-end model
0:58:42Also, it's like no no no guys. Don't worry about that stuff. Just constant like regroup
0:58:46You need to have like a snow leopard release just internals only get rid of the standard definition menus everywhere make the thing blazing fast
0:58:53Then the next release add like oh we have new feet because like all those little you know we can do Amazon
0:58:59We can do Netflix. We can do Hulu. We can do this we can do searching across all like I
0:59:02Know those are not going to be as good as I would want them to be and like at this point
0:59:06I like ignore the Netflix feature on my TV because in the competition among all the boxes connected to my TV they can do Netflix
0:59:13TiVo's like in the last place. Maybe it's ahead of the Blu-ray player.
0:59:16But you know, Apple TV is my number one silent, no-fan,
0:59:20responsive interface, actually works with Netflix. So I understand that TiVo has to advertise all those fancy features,
0:59:26but that's not what I want out of TiVo. And if I was telling someone why they should buy TiVo,
0:59:31I would say to record programs and watch them later. And it does that
0:59:36amazingly well, and it's reliable, and it doesn't crash.
0:59:40You just wanted to record the programs and have you watch them later and in that job that indispensable job that my household cannot function
0:59:47without
0:59:48TiVo does it and everything else about it. I
0:59:50I'm not as interested in as those key features, so I
0:59:54Look forward to trying this out
0:59:56I did think about like maybe I'll get rid of my existing TiVo is like kind of like a gift to myself this Christmas or
1:00:01Something it would not be economically wise because I just bought this TiVo like two years ago
1:00:05It's not even a warranty yet because I bought like the extended three-year warranty
1:00:09I bought lifetime service for it.
1:00:11Wait, people buy that?
1:00:13Yeah.
1:00:14Because all the past T-Bos I've had, lifetime service has been a good deal.
1:00:19I've had them and used them far past the point where lifetime service—I would have been
1:00:23paying way more if I had paid monthly or yearly than the lifetime service.
1:00:27But if I was to get rid of my current T-Bo now, which was the previous top-end T-Bo,
1:00:31it would not be economically wise to have paid for lifetime service two years ago and
1:00:35then ditch it.
1:00:36And you can't transfer lifetime service to that thing.
1:00:38TiVo is expensive, like, there's no two ways about it. And I don't complain too much about
1:00:42the expenses, I've always said, "Make a $1500 box, just make it fast, I'll buy it," right?
1:00:47And this is like $600 plus $400 for the lifetime service, like it's expensive. I don't know
1:00:53how much, it probably would come out to be under $1000, but I'd be willing to pay a huge
1:00:56amount of money for this, because it's that important to like, you know, my life and the
1:01:00functioning of my house. But I can't really, it's like, you just bought a TiVo, and I'd
1:01:06I think I'd rather spend that money on a PlayStation 4.
1:01:08So that's probably how that's going to go.
1:01:11I'm very disappointed that you're not absolutely infuriated
1:01:14that some of the screens, the user interface screens,
1:01:16are apparently still standard def.
1:01:18Well, you know how long I've been living with that?
1:01:20What I've heard from various people
1:01:22is that the actual application that's
1:01:27running TiVo that records all the shows and everything
1:01:29is standard def.
1:01:30And all the high definition menus
1:01:32are just like one of those extra applications
1:01:34that you launch from the real application that's running Tivo.
1:01:37So the high definition menus are, you know, that's, that's one more layer up.
1:01:41Right?
1:01:41So as soon as you exit out of the high definition menus, then you see the real
1:01:44interface underneath it.
1:01:45And if it were you to exit out of that, then you just, you know, the thing
1:01:47wouldn't be recording stuff anymore.
1:01:48I don't know how accurate that is in terms of their stack, but like, that's why
1:01:51the high def, you know, the standard def menus there, because that's the actual
1:01:55underlying machine and I can kind of understand, you know, why that didn't go
1:02:00away immediately because you don't want to screw with the reliability.
1:02:02but now it's been like how many years of television has been high def, it's just embarrassing.
1:02:06Maybe there's some deep technical reason why they can't get rid of it or whatever.
1:02:10If I had to choose "crashy and screws up my recordings but has all high def menus"
1:02:15versus the current situation, I would choose the current one.
1:02:16I just think it's embarrassing for them technically that they haven't been able to get rid of
1:02:19these.
1:02:20But if forced to choose, I would say, "Look, if you feel like you don't have the technical
1:02:24chops to ditch the underlying thing that's recording all this stuff and has the standard
1:02:28or deaf men use because you're afraid of instability, I'm willing to believe that your assessment
1:02:33of your competency is accurate.
1:02:35And I prefer to have like, because my TiVo, you know, there was times where they've been
1:02:39a little bit crashy and like, you know, many years ago, this thing has not spontaneously
1:02:44rebooted, has not crashed, has been like a champ against, you know, MPEG artifacts and
1:02:48stuff and things that record.
1:02:50It records four shows all the time.
1:02:51It's really quiet.
1:02:53It just works and does what it's supposed to do.
1:02:55And even though I grit my teeth and think how insane it is that I can't scroll through
1:03:00the menus, then it's like, "Down, wait for reaction, wait for reaction, oh, it moved,
1:03:05down, wait for," you know.
1:03:07That infuriates me, but in sort of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like, "Are the shows
1:03:12recorded?"
1:03:13"Yes."
1:03:14"Can I watch them?"
1:03:15"Yes."
1:03:16"Can I navigate them too quickly?"
1:03:17"No."
1:03:18But I've got food, shelter, safety, that's about the level we're at.
1:03:24If anyone wants a DVR, again, I haven't read reviews of this yet except for the Verge preview
1:03:29thing. People are just getting them now. I would say wait for the reviews, and if they
1:03:33say it's a good deal, you should get one. I'm very happy with the TiVo's I have.
1:03:37Like I said, if you took them away from me, I would be pissed because what's my alternative?
1:03:41A cable company DVR? No, thank you. I've used many of those over relatives' houses,
1:03:46and they are so much worse.
1:03:47All right, so with that in mind, I am genuinely not trolling you. The only DVR I've ever
1:03:52had is the Verizon Fios DVR that we got months ago.
1:03:57We didn't have a DVR until like six months ago,
1:03:59because I was too cheap to pay the monthly fee.
1:04:02What makes a TiVo-- again, I'm really honestly asking,
1:04:04what makes a TiVo so much better than that?
1:04:07Well, so the first thing is capacity.
1:04:08Like, cable company DVRs can hold like nothing,
1:04:11even if you get the fanciest, shmanciest one.
1:04:13The current top of the line TiVo holds like 10 times as much.
1:04:16Like, what is it, like 450 hours of HD?
1:04:19Do you know how many hours of HD yours holds?
1:04:21I want him to say it's measured in tens, probably not even 100.
1:04:25It's not even close.
1:04:26And that might sound crazy, like, oh, I'm
1:04:28not going to record that much.
1:04:29But once you have a bunch of kids and a bunch of season passes
1:04:32and I have queued up a maximum of five episodes of 17
1:04:36different shows for all the different kids
1:04:37and all our own things and a whole series that I let queue up,
1:04:41that's what I'm paying all this money for this box to do.
1:04:43Under the dome, I watched the first couple episodes,
1:04:45and now I'm just like, I'll save that for that.
1:04:47I'm letting the whole series queue up.
1:04:48I'll get to it later.
1:04:50You can't do that unless you have a three terabyte drive in there, or if you have U-verse
1:04:54and they do it all server-side, but even then, the capacity is not that great.
1:04:57So that's the biggest thing.
1:04:58Again, our household would not function.
1:05:01My wife has no idea.
1:05:02I always get the one that holds the most that you can possibly hold, and she's still like,
1:05:06"Oh, it's 80% full.
1:05:07I've got to delete stuff."
1:05:08She has that paranoia about the thing filling up or whatever.
1:05:11I'm like, "Don't worry.
1:05:12It'll delete off the ones that were not marked to save.
1:05:14It'll be fine."
1:05:15But capacity, so that's number one.
1:05:18Number two, most DVRs that you get from the cable companies can't record four shows at
1:05:24once or now six shows at once.
1:05:25And you think, "I'll never need to record six shows at once.
1:05:27I didn't think I'd ever need to record four shows at once."
1:05:30But you look at the thing and very frequently all four lights lit up and those are not all
1:05:34suggestions like it would also record shows that it thinks you want.
1:05:37I don't really use that feature.
1:05:38But anyway, I'll see what it's recording.
1:05:40I'm like, "You know what?
1:05:41Those are four legitimate shows that are going on at the same time."
1:05:43Now granted, maybe the two that are recording for the kids we could defer until later for
1:05:46for a repeat, but I like being able to record all those things at once.
1:05:50Now to quickly interrupt, that actually does make sense because there has only been once
1:05:53or twice, but there were a couple times where we were recording two different shows and
1:05:58then I wanted to watch live TV for whatever reason and not watch those shows at the moment,
1:06:03and our DVR was like, "Uh-uh, I've got two tuners.
1:06:06You've got to pick either one of those two shows or leave me alone."
1:06:10So that actually does make sense.
1:06:11And the final thing I would say is 30 seconds skip, which is like every time I use someone
1:06:16else's DVR or U-verse thing or whatever and commercials come on and I have to fast-forward
1:06:20through them, it's just, it's terrible.
1:06:24No, the Verizon one does, I don't know how many seconds it is, but it does a bulk skip.
1:06:30Some of them have some kind of skipping feature, but most of them have the fast-forward scan
1:06:33feature and then they have varying amounts of overrun where you'll wait until you see
1:06:37the first scene of the show and then you'll tell it to stop, it'll actually put you like
1:06:40ten seconds back into the commercial because it thinks you're old and have bad reflexes.
1:06:44TiVo does exactly the same thing, but TiVo I think is tuned for people with better reflexes,
1:06:49but 30 seconds skip and 30 seconds forward, 8 seconds back, having that be single button
1:06:54presses, that's one of the things that pissed me off about the fancy TiVo I have now, is
1:06:57that 30 seconds skip got slower.
1:06:59If you press the 30 second skip button really fast, it will stop showing you a different
1:07:03frame of video, and then you'll have no idea how far you've gone, and you'll have to pause.
1:07:06That's a performance issue, right?
1:07:09But even with the performance issue, even with me manually throttling myself, I would
1:07:13much rather 30 forward, 8 back, or 7 back, or whatever it is, then do fast forward scan
1:07:18in any other DVR. So I would say those are the cornerstones of why TiVo is essential
1:07:23to my life and why other DVRs infuriate me. And there's many, many other features that
1:07:27you could be interested in transferring things. And there's actually a very—this is amazing
1:07:31to me—they have a nice iOS app. The iOS interface on the iPad or even on the iPhone
1:07:35is faster, more responsive, everything. It's like, how did you make a nice iOS app? And
1:07:39The iOS app was crashy early on and has some really--
1:07:42but when you're using it to move stuff,
1:07:43you're like, oh, if only the TV interface was like this.
1:07:47It looks just like the TV interface.
1:07:48Like, why can't you do this over there?
1:07:50This iPod Touch costs $200.
1:07:52Your box costs $600.
1:07:53Just put the iPod Touch inside the box so that I can--
1:07:57I don't understand what's going on over there with the hardware.
1:07:59Maybe this one will be faster.
1:08:00But anyway, there are all sorts of other features
1:08:02that other people might be interested in.
1:08:04But for me, those are the big ones.
1:08:06It's the Mac Pro of DVRs, basically.
1:08:08Why do you need a Mac Pro?
1:08:09Why can't you just get an iMac or an iBook? You could, but I want the Mac Pro, and so I have the Mac Pro of DVRs.
1:08:13No, that's fair. So, but you sound reasonably optimistic about this.
1:08:19It's uglier than mine. That's another reason it's keeping me flying.
1:08:23Are there more fans?
1:08:25No, it looks, no, the fan is pretty darn good and pretty darn quiet, but the front of it, like, all they did was change the front panel.
1:08:31Like, it's just a metal box to the front panel, and the new front panel's uglier than the old one, in my opinion, but oh well.
1:08:38Alright, well, fair enough. Anything else we want to talk about, or do we want to just end slightly early-ish?
1:08:43Well, I discovered that we will hit the 50 meg limit
1:08:47with our audio settings roughly at like an hour 40.
1:08:51Or like, I think an hour 43 is like the exact limit of how long we can go.
1:08:57Even if you go mono, you hit that thing where you found out you were doing stereo before, right?
1:09:00Oh, yeah, I've been doing mono now for weeks.
1:09:04Yeah, so as long as you want to keep 64k mono we guys keep it below an hour 43
1:09:10It's up to you guys. Let's wrap it up. We have so much to talk about we can save it for next episode
1:09:16Yeah, why aren't we trying to keep these shows around our I kind of like that then we started going along again
1:09:19All right. Yeah. Well, it's like we're on that hypercritical show or something. Yeah, it happens like the sale long
1:09:24We were in today. You'll slide right back into that
1:09:27Disaster. Thanks a lot. So our two sponsors this week
1:09:31Squarespace and Audible.
1:09:33And we will see you next week.
1:09:35(upbeat music)
1:09:38♪ Now the show is over ♪
1:09:40♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪
1:09:43♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
1:09:45♪ Accidental ♪
1:09:45♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
1:09:47♪ Accidental ♪
1:09:48♪ John didn't do any research ♪
1:09:50♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪
1:09:53♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
1:09:55♪ Accidental ♪
1:09:56♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
1:09:58♪ Accidental ♪
1:09:59♪ And you can find the show notes ♪
1:10:01And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
1:10:13So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M
1:10:17A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A
1:10:25It's accidental, accidental They didn't mean to
1:10:30Accidental, accidental Check podcast so long
1:10:37You can hear the opening chord of the song, can't you?
1:10:42Accidental, accidental Yeah, that's the thing that people don't
1:10:46know is like they talk about the song being catchy
1:10:48It's catchy for us too, like I find myself thinking about it
1:10:51Why do you think about the song to your own damn podcast?
1:10:53But it happens!
1:10:54The whole reason we picked that song was because we couldn't get it out of our own heads.
1:10:59And because you don't have the good taste to appreciate bleeps and boops.
1:11:02Oh, God, listen to this guy.
1:11:05Anything else going on?
1:11:12No, I mean, there's a whole lot going on, but I guess... Jon, how's the review going?
1:11:16Yeah, it's going alright. I mean, like I said, at this point, I have another section that I need to write,
1:11:24But then after that, I'm waiting on Apple.
1:11:26I'm waiting for another build, waiting
1:11:27to see what new things work, what screenshots get changed.
1:11:30I'm doing e-book production, working on all that crap.
1:11:35Try to get into the iBook store this year.
1:11:37We'll see how that goes.
1:11:38Oh, interesting.
1:11:39Actually, I'm curious.
1:11:41Has your e-book workflow changed since last year?
1:11:43Because you described it in a pretty good chunk
1:11:45of "Hypercritical" back for the last review.
1:11:48And I know, obviously, the whole world of e-book tools is awful.
1:11:52So I'm wondering if anything's different this year.
1:11:54I had the programmer's pile of crap, because I just did a bunch of terrible scripts, and
1:12:01all I did was copy those bunch of terrible scripts and modify the terribleness inside
1:12:05them.
1:12:06At a certain point, maybe I'll feel like, "You know what?
1:12:08I should make these not crappy."
1:12:10But I'm just too efficient at modifying the crappy scripts to work with the new thing.
1:12:15The thing is, I'm leaving old stuff in there and just either commenting it out or like,
1:12:20"Maybe I'll need that later."
1:12:21So then they're accumulating residue.
1:12:23The scripts are terrible.
1:12:24But yeah, these are all just hand-assembled.
1:12:25It's just me, BB Edit, and Perl.
1:12:28And that's all you need to basically make an eBook.
1:12:33And the thing is, I fought it all last year to make these scripts.
1:12:36And now I know.
1:12:37Don't bother looking at the tools.
1:12:38It's just a bunch of files in a container, in a format.
1:12:42It's all text.
1:12:43You zip it up.
1:12:44You feed it through some executables.
1:12:46Like whatever.
1:12:47Whatever you know and it's all and what it comes down to and all these things is it's like it's like Android
1:12:51It's like you know fragmentation it the process is you know build the book load it on this device see what's crappy build it
1:12:58Load it's like Jenga. You know like you push something alright now. It looks good on the Kindle touch alright
1:13:02Let's look at an iBook so now looks bad
1:13:04They're like the worst one is Kindle because Kindle
1:13:07Packs them two formats into a single file the mobi format and the kf8 format kf8 is reasonably full featured and mobi is a pile
1:13:14of crap
1:13:15But you can't give
1:13:17Different you know different content to the two formats you have to find some crappy way with CSS
1:13:22Do you know like do these terrible hacks of like okay?
1:13:25Well apply this style sheet you can apply style sheets on each of on each device you say this kid this style sheet applies to kf8
1:13:30and this style sheet applies to mobi and
1:13:32That is sufficient to do anything you want because you're like fine display none on kf8
1:13:37And then you know you just you can just hide things, but like come on guys like I'm generating these files
1:13:41I could generate two totally different files this one would be optimized for Moby this won't be optimized for kf8
1:13:46But instead I gotta make one set of markup and do stupid-ass CSS hacks
1:13:49To make it look good in both of them and then by the way make that sure it looks good on you know on
1:13:54The iPhone screen on the big iPhone on the small iPhone now
1:13:57I got to check in on iBooks on the Mac as well and on all the different kindles and on the e8 kindles and on
1:14:01The Kindle fire and use the Kindle preview or to show those other things
1:14:04But the Kindle preview crashes when you use this particular device you have to use the real device
1:14:07and how do you get the same book onto all your seven devices and then see where it looks right?
1:14:12So that process sucks and continues to suck.
1:14:15So Marco, did you ship all of your old devices up to the Boston area in order for John to test?
1:14:20I've got plenty. I don't have Marco's collection of Kindles, but I've got sufficient Kindles.
1:14:25Last year, I did have to ask Scott McNulty from the incomparable, who also has every Kindle
1:14:29on demand, to test something because I didn't have a Kindle Touch and the simulator was lying to me.
1:14:33That's the other thing. The previewer, they give you to say, "Here, try it on that device."
1:14:36That's a piece of garbage.
1:14:37Yeah, it's a terrible application and it lies, apparently.
1:14:40Because I previewed it on the Kindle Touch and it looked fine, and then someone sent
1:14:43me a picture of his Kindle Touch after it had already been uploaded to the Amazon Star
1:14:46and he bought it and got it and it was like, unreadable.
1:14:48And it's like, well, that's not what the previewer showed.
1:14:50No, generally speaking, the Kindle previewer does not tell you anything.
1:14:53Honestly, you shouldn't even be using it.
1:14:55It is that bad.
1:14:56I think it's better than nothing.
1:14:58It's not.
1:14:59Because it'll tell you that something looks a certain way and the actual device is nothing
1:15:03like that.
1:15:04Like, there's that big of differences.
1:15:05it is completely useless because it gives you a false sense of security.
1:15:09It does give me feature support, though. The iOS version of the Kindle
1:15:13Reader, by the way, is terrible. It doesn't support, like, I don't even
1:15:17know if it doesn't support KF8. Maybe it doesn't support KF8. Maybe only the Kindle Fire supports
1:15:21KF8, but I'm amazed that this, you know, KF8's
1:15:25like a two-year-old, a year-old, and the iOS Reader still acts like an
1:15:29E-ink Kindle with fancy graphics. It can't do floated images to the side. It's like,
1:15:33"Oop, can't handle that."
1:15:34So, you know, that kind of thing of like, is this feature supported in iOS?
1:15:39The previewer can usually show it, because if you try to float something, it will not
1:15:42float in the previewer, and it will not float in the iOS app.
1:15:45So I don't trust it entirely, because I have the devices here, but when I'm making change
1:15:50after change after change, sometimes I just want to go to the previewer and click three
1:15:54times and get it to reload the book.
1:15:55That's the great thing about the Kindle for Mac, which by the way I also have to test
1:15:58which does display KFA, is you have to right-click the book,
1:16:02delete the book, go to the finder, find the book,
1:16:05drag it onto the Kindle thing, because you can't do open from within the app.
1:16:08And then because it copies it into the Kindle library,
1:16:11repeatedly doing that task, I should make an AppleScript for it,
1:16:13because it's so annoying.
1:16:15You can't just-- you want to say, "Okay, the file's changed, reloaded."
1:16:18It's like, "What do you mean reloaded? It hasn't changed.
1:16:20I have my own copy in my library, and that one hasn't changed."
1:16:23- That sounds awful. - Yeah.
1:16:24So I went through that process, which in the beginning,
1:16:27In the beginning, that process is a nice break from writing, but eventually you're like,
1:16:30"You know what?
1:16:31This sucks."
1:16:32But you're feeling—
1:16:33I'm not Mrs. Bond at all.
1:16:34Oh my god.
1:16:35This is like—
1:16:36I bet you don't.
1:16:37—bad flashbacks.
1:16:38But you're feeling relatively confident about it?
1:16:40The review?
1:16:41Eh, I'm all right.
1:16:42I mean, I thought it would kind of be a similar length to the Mountain Lion one, and I think
1:16:46after I finish the Slack session, it will be maybe a little bit shorter.
1:16:50But it feels longer to me because—I don't know why it feels longer.
1:16:53Maybe it feels longer because all the screenshots are retina.
1:16:55I don't think there's more screenshots than there were before.
1:16:58Maybe there are even less, but all of them are twice as big.
1:17:00So the production workflow, those big images, and that's the other thing with Kindle.
1:17:04They charge you for the download.
1:17:05They charge you per megabyte.
1:17:07And so now I've just doubled the size of my book.
1:17:09And it's like, it's a $4 book, and I'm already, you know, Amazon's already, you know, it's
1:17:13a $5 book.
1:17:14Amazon's already getting like $4 out of that $5.
1:17:17You know, I'm going to double the size of it, and they're going to take even more.
1:17:20I don't want to raise the price of the book, so I had to crush down the images with even
1:17:25bigger compression in the Kindle one. That's the advantage of the iBooks version. I'm going
1:17:29to ship full res pings on there because Apple, as far as I know, does not charge anything
1:17:32for download. So I'm like, "Here you go, 35 megabook. Enjoy."
1:17:35Oh yeah, Apple. I mean, that's why... What was David Spark's book? Was it Paperless,
1:17:40the one that he did? It was like a gig, right? And it was fun. Apple doesn't charge anything
1:17:45different for that. That would cost you $150 in download fees from Amazon's side. Amazon has two
1:17:50deals. You can do 70% royalty, which is pretty good. So you get 70% of the purchase price
1:17:55of the book. Of course, you don't get to pick the purchase price because they can change
1:17:58it for price matching. Anyway, 70%, but there's that per megabyte fee, or you can get 30%
1:18:04and no per megabyte fee. They know what they're doing over there. I'll be much happier to
1:18:08get the 70% and also no download fee at iBooks if I can get through the process of submitting
1:18:15a book to iBooks and getting it published and approved, which is much harder than Kindle
1:18:18because Amazon's like, "Sure, upload it, click a button, and eventually we'll put it up for
1:18:21sale, but then we'll refuse to load it onto an iPad for no reason."
1:18:25Yeah, that was last year's drama.
1:18:28This year, I don't know what's going to go wrong.
1:18:30Who knows?
1:18:31But you're just totally powerless.
1:18:32You're like, "You can't get in touch with a human."
1:18:35And days are passing, and people are like, "How could you sell this book?
1:18:38You can't even load it on an iPad."
1:18:39And you totally can, but their website says you can't.
1:18:42And their website refuses to send it to an iPad.
1:18:46like, you know, like, "Send to my Kindle," it won't even list your iPad. It's like, "Sorry,
1:18:49this book can't be sent to an iPad." Yes, it can. It totally can. I'm looking at it
1:18:54right now. And then they fix it, and then we uploaded a new version of the book with
1:18:58typos fixed, and then it couldn't be loaded on the iPad again. Yeah, that's the whole
1:19:01episode of Epic Critical about that.
1:19:02Now, I'm curious, because of the audience—obviously, this is not a good solution for most books—but
1:19:07because of the audience of an in-depth, you know, tens of thousands of words, Mac OS X
1:19:13and point release version review.
1:19:15Obviously this is a somewhat technical audience.
1:19:17Could you do the thing that I believe O'Reilly does
1:19:21or one of the big publishers does,
1:19:23I probably all of them do it,
1:19:24where you sell the book on your own site
1:19:27or on ours site or whoever's doing it
1:19:29and then you can just download a Moby version
1:19:33for if you want to put it on a Kindle.
1:19:35Like is that--
1:19:36- Well ours does that.
1:19:37If you sign up for a month of like ours premiere,
1:19:40which is like five bucks the same price
1:19:41as buying a book in all the stores,
1:19:43So you get the Kindle version.
1:19:45I don't know if they put the Kindle version.
1:19:46But anyway, you get an iBooks-compatible EPUB, no DRM.
1:19:49You get a PDF version.
1:19:50And I believe they also put the Kindle version up,
1:19:53but I forget.
1:19:53You get the Moby and KFA version.
1:19:55So that is the best deal if you want to do that.
1:19:58But then people are wary, like, oh, I
1:19:59don't want to subscribe to something,
1:20:00because then I have to remember to cancel,
1:20:02and all this other stuff.
1:20:03And it's like, well, for $5, you can
1:20:04get every single one of these books in every format.
1:20:07But people just feel comfortable buying from Amazon.
1:20:10So that's why I put it up on Amazon.
1:20:11A lot of people ask about iBooks.
1:20:13If I can get my book up there, I'm going to do that as well.
1:20:17I think everyone should read it on the web for free.
1:20:18I think that is by far the best version of this book to read, but sometimes people just
1:20:22want to give me money.
1:20:23Sometimes people just really want to read it on their Kindle.
1:20:25If you're going to read this review on an E Ink Kindle, with the images all grayscale,
1:20:29some people want to do that.
1:20:30Who am I to say that they can't give me money?
1:20:32So I am.
1:20:33[laughter]
1:20:34How much of your time and trouble is it really worth to give an amazing experience to these
1:20:39devices where it's already doomed to be a pretty crappy experience.
1:20:41It's not amazing. I'm just trying to be acceptable.
1:20:44Well, but it's pretty much doomed. It's not going to be good. And why not, and especially
1:20:50dealing with the weird megabyte limitations and Amazon's stupid tools. Every tool Amazon
1:20:56makes for publishers is ridiculously horrible. And so just dealing with all that stuff is...
1:21:01Well, you can sign up for KDP Select, and then you get no per megabyte download and
1:21:07and all this other great stuff,
1:21:08but your book must be for sale exclusively on Amazon.
1:21:11- Oh yeah, and that's of course correct.
1:21:12- So, F that.
1:21:14(laughing)
1:21:15- I mean seriously, why,
1:21:16the concerns about not wanting to sign up
1:21:21for a subscription and having to remember to cancel it,
1:21:23those are very valid.
1:21:25Why not just, 'cause obviously I'm sure
1:21:29they're people at ours and they're Conde Nast, right?
1:21:32I'm sure they want people to subscribe
1:21:35and that's part of the reason of having it on their site,
1:21:37but certainly they can also realize the value of
1:21:42just like make a dedicated page for just this book,
1:21:45put a Stripe form up there,
1:21:48and just have some way to pay five bucks
1:21:50and get the files for download right there
1:21:52without having to sign up.
1:21:53You would make so much more,
1:21:55and they would make so much more from that than--
1:21:57- It's not that much money in the grand scheme.
1:21:59It's like not that many people buy the book,
1:22:00so we don't want to get it too overblown.
1:22:02And they do sell more books than just mine.
1:22:04I think you're right.
1:22:05At this point, they sell like, maybe there's like four ebooks a year that they sell.
1:22:10They get significant sales.
1:22:12It's maybe probably worth it for them to do what you said, put up a page, have Stripe
1:22:16do it or whatever.
1:22:17But I don't think that's how, that's something that ours would have to make on its own.
1:22:21Condé Nast has no sort of infrastructure for like, "Hey, we're gonna sell stuff over
1:22:25the winter."
1:22:26Wait, how do they sell the other ebooks?
1:22:27Did they make, you just said they make four a year.
1:22:28Yeah, they did put them on Amazon.
1:22:30Most people just put them up on Amazon.
1:22:32They may have done some on iBooks, I don't remember.
1:22:34Or I may be the first iBooks one, I don't know.
1:22:36But if they did it themselves-- but if you
1:22:40think about the development cost of how many developers
1:22:43and how much time it would take to do that,
1:22:44they would eat up the first and second year's sales.
1:22:47We sell some ebooks, but they're $5 ebooks.
1:22:50And tons of people read them on the web
1:22:53and slice off many, many zeros to see how many people who
1:22:57actually buy them.
1:22:59It's not that much money.
1:23:00So I understand it's on the balancing point of, well,
1:23:04we could have our developers add features to the website
1:23:06or whatever, or we could have them put up a Stripe page.
1:23:09And at this point, I think sending them
1:23:11to Amazon or to iBooks and delegating that
1:23:14and outsourcing it, I think it's still reasonable.
1:23:16If they were selling-- if every single article was available
1:23:19in e-book form or some percentage of them,
1:23:21but it's really just like four or five high profile
1:23:23articles a year, and who knows?
1:23:26It could happen, because they do have good--
1:23:28They wrote their own live, you know, what do you call it, event, like what was it, cover
1:23:33it live, those type of things.
1:23:34Yeah, like when you're covering it.
1:23:36Yeah, because they kept using third party vendors and they kept crapping out, so they
1:23:39wrote their own.
1:23:40But that's like more of a core competency of the site.
1:23:42Like you go to ours for the live blog, there's like, you know, 20 of those a year and that's
1:23:46big traffic time.
1:23:47So they wrote their own one of those and, you know, had their developers do it and it's
1:23:50awesome.
1:23:51I don't think they're at that point now for book sales.
1:23:55Anyway, can we talk about the M4?
1:24:00Can we talk about--speaking of gold.
1:24:03Yes, seriously.
1:24:04What is that color?
1:24:05Every time I see that, I'm like, "That's gotta be Photoshop.
1:24:08No real object is that color."
1:24:10Remember when the Dodge Neon first came out in like '98?
1:24:12Yes, yes.
1:24:13And it had like a mustard yellow color.
1:24:16It just looked terrible.
1:24:17This is like the exact same color.
1:24:19I don't know why people do that.
1:24:20Like, BMW has a bad color gene.
1:24:23They have that.
1:24:24Yes.
1:24:25cars have to be available in like two or three great colors, three or four forgettable colors,
1:24:31and like two completely awful, I can't believe that's even available colors.
1:24:34Yeah, and I don't know if that's like a cultural thing, like in Germany those colors
1:24:38are popular or just no one that like, who thinks that they're attractive?
1:24:40Well do you remember the taxis? The Munich taxis were, how did you describe it Marco?
1:24:43It was like old plastic. It was the color of aged plastic. Yeah, it's like this very,
1:24:47very light beige. It's like, it's plastic from the late 80s that when it was new was
1:24:53white.
1:24:54scorched. It's like when you leave old Apple hardware, like old Macs out in the sun, the
1:24:59orange deepens.
1:25:00Exactly. Yeah. Same thing. The white MacBook had that problem originally. I had one of
1:25:04those that had that problem where the entire, what they called the top case, which is the
1:25:08whole surface that the keyboard is part of, that whole panel would discolor into this
1:25:14gross orangey looking thing because of heat. And people thought it was because of dirty
1:25:18hands because it would be a lot of times in the hand resting area. But even if you'd put
1:25:24on top of it, which I did immediately when it was brand new, you would still get that
1:25:27discoloration underneath the film. And it turned out they had this problem that it was
1:25:31just like the plastic was aging poorly with all the heat that it had to deal with being
1:25:35a laptop, and they eventually replaced them all.
1:25:38So they probably dealt with that same issue among many others with the white iPhone that
1:25:42they had so much trouble with. Oh, I'm sure that was part of it.
1:25:45So yeah, so the M4 was announced. It's this hideous gold, and when we say gold, we don't
1:25:49mean fun-looking champagne, if you even consider that fun.
1:25:52No, it's like mustard vomit.
1:25:53hideous. it's like if you miss mustard and mercury. yes, yes. and it's awful. I think
1:26:00it's a decent looking car under the paint maybe. it's so hard to see because I'm too
1:26:04busy cleaning up my own vomit. but they're saying it's a twin-turbo version of my motor,
1:26:10the M55, which is about the same power output as the V8 E90 M3. wait, they gave engine details?
1:26:17a little bit. or maybe it was in that autoblog post that I asked. it was expected to be a
1:26:22triple turbo V6 3.0 with roughly 400 horsepower.
1:26:27- Can you put a link in the chat room
1:26:30to that one piece picture?
1:26:31- Yeah, I'm trying.
1:26:33I'm trying to multitask, it's not working.
1:26:35And so the other interesting thing that they announced today
1:26:39and I'm putting the link in now
1:26:41is that it's losing the manual transmission,
1:26:42which makes me extremely--
1:26:43- Well, but hold on.
1:26:44That was a rumor that Autoblog reported
1:26:46that they said their source said,
1:26:47but then like Beamer Post chimed in and said,
1:26:51we've actually heard the opposite
1:26:52And here's a photo of a prototype that was spotted
1:26:55somewhere that had a stick.
1:26:57And here's the VIN database that this one says it has a DCT.
1:27:01And this one doesn't say that.
1:27:03So it probably has a stick.
1:27:04Like there's all sorts of pretty good reasons to the contrary.
1:27:10See, this color-- oh my god, this color--
1:27:12it's like it's Photoshop.
1:27:13You know what it looks like?
1:27:15Marco will know what color that looks like.
1:27:18Actually, I've dealt with-- you're probably talking
1:27:20about like infant poop or something?
1:27:22I am talking about infant poop. After you feed them the peas, that's infant poop color.
1:27:27Totally. Like, they're not onto solid foods quite—like, it's mostly milk, because their
1:27:31milk poop is kind of yellowish, but they're like, "You started feeding them the split
1:27:33pea? That is in the diaper right there."
1:27:35Yeah, definitely. No, I mean, I've actually spent all day dealing with a sick dog, and
1:27:40I've seen some of those colors today, actually.
1:27:42Yeah, it's also dog vomit color, because dog vomit is usually yellowish.
1:27:46Yeah.
1:27:47No, I've also seen—and I think I sent this only to Marco. I don't remember if I sent
1:27:51us to you, John. But somebody found or put together sales numbers or what do they call
1:27:57them? Take rates for…
1:27:58Yeah, you sent it to us of how many people are buying the manuals.
1:28:02Right. The E90 M3 and how when they started offering DCT, you saw the take rate of manual
1:28:08transmissions just plummet everywhere except the US, which seems totally backwards to me
1:28:14because nobody in America drives a stick and everyone drives stupid automatics. Whereas
1:28:18Whereas in Europe, in my experience, everyone drives a stick and nobody drives automatics.
1:28:22But apparently in the M3 it was reversed.
1:28:24And so one of the arguments they've had, Marco and I were talking about this earlier and
1:28:28I am, is well maybe the US will get the stick and nobody else will.
1:28:32But then it could be like the M5 where like yeah the US gets the stick but it sucks and
1:28:36no one wants it.
1:28:37Well yeah, and you know if you look at those take rates it does look like though that you
1:28:40know the M5 the take rate for the stick was getting pretty bad.
1:28:44But the M3 take rate for the stick in the US was I think like 50% still.
1:28:48Right, but the M3 stick was good, and the M5 stick, every review I've read of it, is
1:28:53like mushy and not satisfying to use.
1:28:55Like, you gotta make a good stick.
1:28:56You can't be like, "Oh, fine, here you go, here's a stick."
1:28:58It wasn't that it was a bad stick.
1:28:59It was that like the rest of the car designed around the stick was so much better with the
1:29:05DCT.
1:29:06Well, hold on.
1:29:07Every review I've read of it said it's a bad stick.
1:29:08Well, which M5 are we talking about?
1:29:10Mine?
1:29:11Marco's M5.
1:29:12the E60, which was the V10 M5, universally everything I've ever heard you're absolutely
1:29:17right, total piece of crap. Where the F10 M5, which is Marcos, I read one article and
1:29:22it was only one, and to be fair, I think it might have been in the BMW owner's club,
1:29:27whatever it is, magazine, but they said, "Oh my god, the six-speed F10 M5 is amazing."
1:29:35And they were extremely effusive about it.
1:29:37Go read the groupings of magazines from my youth, which I keep reading like an old man.
1:29:42No, no, I agree.
1:29:43Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile, Motor Trend.
1:29:46Motor Trend's kind of raggy.
1:29:47None of them like the stick.
1:29:48Oh, I completely agree.
1:29:49This was the only one I saw.
1:29:50They all thought the DCT version was the one to get.
1:29:54Even Car and Driver, who's got the whole Save the Manuals campaign, they're like, "We can't
1:29:58recommend that anyone get this manual.
1:30:01It's not a good manual.
1:30:02You should get an M3 car manual."
1:30:06Well, and maybe not anymore.
1:30:08You still get an M3 with a manual, but it's not an M4.
1:30:11Yeah, it seems like, I think it would have to.
1:30:13I totally believe that person who said
1:30:15that the US is gonna get it.
1:30:16I do worry though, that it will be like the M5,
1:30:19like Marco said, not well matched the car,
1:30:20but also like the M5, not a satisfying manual
1:30:23by all the reports that I read of it, which is a shame,
1:30:25'cause like, it's not a check mark,
1:30:27so you don't be like, oh, it's got a manual,
1:30:29check the box, therefore I feel good.
1:30:30You want to get the enjoyment of the manual,
1:30:32and BMW manuals are really nice.
1:30:34I've driven my father's and I've driven his Audi and you know many only different manuals my whole life and the BMW manual
1:30:40He's got in his car is the nicest feeling one that I've ever driven and they have something there
1:30:44If they're gonna preserve it for the u.s.
1:30:46As a kind of a throwback and these people want it at least give the good one
1:30:49You know something for whatever it's worth also like like I had when I had the 1m that was an amazing stick
1:30:54It was that was a fantastic stick car fantastic stick experience everything
1:30:59Now they're replacing that effectively with the new M235i model
1:31:05that is coming to the US and that for all intents and purposes looks like the sequel to the M1M
1:31:12That's the kind of thing I bet that's that's gonna be probably the last car in the lineup available with a stick
1:31:18Yeah, possible because they always said the 1M was as close as you could get to what the E30 M3
1:31:27You know the original lightweight
1:31:29relatively high power but extremely lightweight high revving
1:31:31M3 and they always and everything I read about the 1m was it was very it very it was very similar to that
1:31:37You drove it as attractive. No, but like, you know, it's I
1:31:41think
1:31:44With a car and this is gonna sound crazy
1:31:46But with the car the size of the 3 series and of course being based on it than the m3 now with with the new
1:31:52M3 and 4 they have focused a lot on weight savings
1:31:55That's been like that's one of the reason they went from the v8 to the v6 and they are doing more carbon fiber more aluminum
1:32:01Like they're saying like one of the main reasons one of the main goals with the m3 and the m4
1:32:05Was to be lighter weight than their regular non m3 series counterparts. So maybe maybe this won't hold true quite yet, but
1:32:13I think
1:32:16Enthusiasts who like the feel of driving a lot and who and who want
1:32:20that kind of like direct connection between
1:32:24with a stick and that level of control, I think they're
1:32:27going to be pushed to smaller and smaller cars.
1:32:30And I don't think it would be that bad if the M235i comes
1:32:36out and ends up being awesome.
1:32:38And maybe five years from now, that's the only BMW
1:32:42available with a stick.
1:32:43I don't think that would be that bad, because the
1:32:45enthusiasts who like having a stick, who like the advantages
1:32:49that it gives you, tend to also be a little bit more
1:32:52gives you tend to also like smaller and lighter cars.
1:32:56Yeah, they'll eventually go too.
1:32:59You know, a generation of kids will grow up not ever using a stick, not ever desiring
1:33:03a stick, and they will appreciate all the good things about an automated manual, and
1:33:08there are many, and then that'll be that.
1:33:10So eventually we'll all die.
1:33:11But yeah, it's like, you'll be worried about, you know, what do you call it, adjusting the
1:33:15fuel mixture with the rods sticking out of the dashboard.
1:33:18We don't care about that.
1:33:20People used to.
1:33:21They all died.
1:33:22[BLANK_AUDIO]