Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:12 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 416. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:18 ◼   ► Sourcegraph, Ladder and Mode. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by

00:00:22 ◼   ► Jason Snow. Hi Jason. Hi Myke. I have a hashtag stunt talk question

00:00:26 ◼   ► for you comes from Luke. Luke wants to know, Jason, do you use shake to undo?

00:00:30 ◼   ► No. No. No. Especially not... Okay. I used to use shake to undo when it was the only option,

00:00:40 ◼   ► right? And this is how it would go. Oh, I need to undo this thing.

00:00:46 ◼   ► sigh, eye roll, shake.

00:00:51 ◼   ► - Yes. - Yep.

00:00:53 ◼   ► And now they put in gestures for undo

00:00:56 ◼   ► and I don't do that anymore.

00:00:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's three finger tap, right?

00:01:03 ◼   ► - Three finger swipe.

00:01:05 ◼   ► - Swipe?

00:01:06 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - Oh, the swipe does do just undo.

00:01:10 ◼   ► If you do three finger tap,

00:01:11 ◼   ► you get that little thing at the top

00:01:12 ◼   ► that says undo, copy, paste.

00:01:14 ◼   ► I mean, I think you get that with one tap.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Anyway, it's the three-finger swipe in one way as a redo and the other way as the undo.

00:01:24 ◼   ► That's the trick.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Right.

00:01:26 ◼   ► There are many ways.

00:01:28 ◼   ► It all takes three fingers.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:30 ◼   ► So if you're still shaking to undo and you're embarrassed by it, three-finger swipe is the

00:01:34 ◼   ► system-wide shortcut in iOS for undo and redo.

00:01:41 ◼   ► There you go.

00:01:43 ◼   ► See, people are going to learn one way or the other.

00:01:45 ◼   ► They're going to learn that there's a tap or they're going to learn that there's a swipe.

00:01:48 ◼   ► But we're providing, uh, you know, either way, we're providing a service today.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Yeah, we are.

00:01:54 ◼   ► As we always do.

00:01:56 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question to help us answer a future episode, or open

00:02:00 ◼   ► a future episode of Upgrade with the answer, just send it in the tweet with

00:02:05 ◼   ► #snowtalk or use ?snowtalk in the Real AFM members Discord.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Some follow out, Jason Snow.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Got a few things.

00:02:13 ◼   ► want to talk about at the beginning of the show today.

00:02:15 ◼   ► As always, want to mention, you should subscribe to Upgrade Plus if you haven't already.

00:02:20 ◼   ► You'll hear new ads, no ads, new ads which are none.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Oh, we premiere all our ads for Upgrade Plus members only.

00:02:27 ◼   ► It's hot today, I'm doing the best I can.

00:02:30 ◼   ► You get bonus content every single week.

00:02:32 ◼   ► You also get access to the Relay FM members discourse, which is a great way to listen

00:02:36 ◼   ► to shows live.

00:02:37 ◼   ► We record live every Monday at 9am Pacific and the live chat is there in the Discord

00:02:44 ◼   ► and you can also listen there as well.

00:02:46 ◼   ► We have many shows here at Relay FM that also record live, it's not just an upgrade.

00:02:50 ◼   ► One of them is Conduit which is hosted by Cathy Campbell and Jay Miller.

00:02:54 ◼   ► This is a, I would say a very supportive show that our members love which is focused on

00:02:58 ◼   ► how people stay productive with the things that they need to do and the things that they

00:03:02 ◼   ► want to do.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Conduit also just passed its one year anniversary so if you're saying "hey I've never heard

00:03:07 ◼   ► a conduit not only can you listen to it live you can also check it out at relay.fm/conduit

00:03:12 ◼   ► you should uh and so yeah if you want to get all of that well you want to get a grid plus go to

00:03:17 ◼   ► get a grid plus.com you can sign up uh i wanted to to put a plea out to our listeners too if they

00:03:23 ◼   ► want to well if they have nice things to say um actually oh you know whatever like the people if

00:03:29 ◼   ► you're listening yeah we we think you're listening because you like the show uh we we never ask for

00:03:36 ◼   ► for Apple Podcasts reviews.

00:03:38 ◼   ► It's just not really a thing that you do.

00:03:39 ◼   ► You'll hear many shows ask you for this,

00:03:42 ◼   ► but we just don't really do it.

00:03:43 ◼   ► It's just not a thing that we tend to focus on

00:03:45 ◼   ► too much on the show.

00:03:46 ◼   ► However, we spoke about some things that we really care

00:03:49 ◼   ► about that are going on in the world right now.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Political issues that I said shouldn't be political.

00:03:54 ◼   ► I don't think you should be political,

00:03:55 ◼   ► but some people see them as political.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Because of that, we got a lot of one star reviews.

00:03:59 ◼   ► So if you enjoy the show and would like to balance

00:04:04 ◼   ► that out for us, feel free.

00:04:06 ◼   ► If you've heard this and you're like,

00:04:07 ◼   ► "Ha ha ha, I know how to get them."

00:04:08 ◼   ► Well, good luck to you, you know what I'm saying?

00:04:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's right.

00:04:13 ◼   ► - I just wanted to ask.

00:04:15 ◼   ► - Podcast reviews were a mistake,

00:04:19 ◼   ► but this is where we are.

00:04:21 ◼   ► - I think stars are fine.

00:04:23 ◼   ► The written reviews I wished kind of didn't exist,

00:04:27 ◼   ► but they do.

00:04:28 ◼   ► - I'd say that for Amazon products too,

00:04:31 ◼   ► but yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Some Amazon reviews can be good.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Like if somebody gives like something really useful

00:04:36 ◼   ► and they include pictures and stuff,

00:04:37 ◼   ► that can be pretty good.

00:04:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, the reviews on Apple Podcasts

00:04:40 ◼   ► very much like App Store reviews are from,

00:04:42 ◼   ► I think a decision made in an era

00:04:44 ◼   ► that if Apple were doing it today,

00:04:46 ◼   ► they would not make that decision,

00:04:47 ◼   ► but it got made already.

00:04:49 ◼   ► - Because I think like everybody else, including Spotify,

00:04:52 ◼   ► they have reviews, but it's just a five star rating.

00:04:55 ◼   ► - Also thank you for taking the hit

00:04:58 ◼   ► and looking at our reviews

00:05:00 ◼   ► because I have a very, very firm policy,

00:05:05 ◼   ► which is I don't read podcast reviews.

00:05:08 ◼   ► - Like here's the thing, I wish I didn't, right?

00:05:12 ◼   ► (both laughing)

00:05:14 ◼   ► But I can't, every now and then, I can't help but look.

00:05:19 ◼   ► You know, there's nothing I can do about it.

00:05:21 ◼   ► The last thing I wanted to mention

00:05:24 ◼   ► is that there is a new permanent Relay FM network

00:05:27 ◼   ► merchandise store, so you can go to relay.fm/store.

00:05:32 ◼   ► We're trialing out something new

00:05:34 ◼   ► and having a permanent store.

00:05:35 ◼   ► We've always done, like we did on upgrade recently,

00:05:38 ◼   ► like a campaign, you know, like for a few weeks.

00:05:43 ◼   ► By the way, thank you to everybody

00:05:44 ◼   ► that did buy us some of our fun t-shirt too.

00:05:47 ◼   ► But Cotton Bureau also does,

00:05:49 ◼   ► which is the company that we've used

00:05:50 ◼   ► for all of our merch for years,

00:05:52 ◼   ► Cotton Bureau also have print on demand stuff,

00:05:54 ◼   ► and so we're trialing that out.

00:05:56 ◼   ► we've not done it before. So to celebrate this initiative we have four new Relay FM

00:06:02 ◼   ► t-shirt designs and so you can go and buy them whenever you want, there's no campaign.

00:06:07 ◼   ► There are some really fun ones, there's a couple of Apple focused ones like retro Apple

00:06:10 ◼   ► focused ones and then this other design which I really like called Transporter which comes

00:06:14 ◼   ► in a couple different colors. And because we don't have to do campaigns, we don't need

00:06:18 ◼   ► to do minimums, we can just have loads available, like loads of designs available. So we're

00:06:23 ◼   ► We're trying this out. Maybe it's something that will extend further with other network

00:06:27 ◼   ► designs or other shows in the future. So if you like these designs, go buy one for yourself

00:06:33 ◼   ► or you can get sweatshirts and hoodies and onesies and tank tops. It's very fun. So if

00:06:40 ◼   ► you want to go check that out, you can. And thank you for listening to this follow out

00:06:44 ◼   ► segment. I have some follow up as well.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Evan, not that one, wrote in to let us know

00:06:52 ◼   ► that there's a new iOS 16 feature to add earnings reports

00:06:55 ◼   ► to your calendar via the Stocks app.

00:06:58 ◼   ► - Yep, it's true, it's true.

00:07:00 ◼   ► They're using one of the many pieces of new information

00:07:03 ◼   ► in the Stocks app,

00:07:04 ◼   ► in addition to all that Apple news integration.

00:07:06 ◼   ► In iOS 16 now, there is a new feature

00:07:09 ◼   ► where they're using the data

00:07:10 ◼   ► of like when every company is doing its earnings

00:07:14 ◼   ► and they're putting a little button in that says,

00:07:16 ◼   ► "Create a calendar event."

00:07:18 ◼   ► So you don't miss the upcoming, you know,

00:07:21 ◼   ► exciting financial disclosure event,

00:07:24 ◼   ► which creates an all day event, by the way,

00:07:28 ◼   ► which I find hilarious,

00:07:29 ◼   ► because if you're on a New York Stock Exchange

00:07:32 ◼   ► or NASDAQ or anything in the US,

00:07:34 ◼   ► the release has come out at 4.30 Eastern,

00:07:36 ◼   ► but let's make it an all day event,

00:07:38 ◼   ► 'cause really, when it's corporate earning season,

00:07:40 ◼   ► it's an all day party, right?

00:07:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's an all day event.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I mean, we're all celebrating all day, so.

00:07:45 ◼   ► - All day disclosures.

00:07:48 ◼   ► - Woo!

00:07:49 ◼   ► - I know it's early in the beta process,

00:07:51 ◼   ► but I would just like to give my feedback here

00:07:53 ◼   ► that the word event two times in the same sentence

00:07:56 ◼   ► that close to each other, create calendar events,

00:07:58 ◼   ► you don't miss the upcoming event.

00:08:00 ◼   ► I don't think that's--

00:08:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, well file feedback on that one.

00:08:03 ◼   ► File a stocks feedback.

00:08:04 ◼   ► - I just filed it.

00:08:05 ◼   ► - That's what you should be known for is stocks bugs.

00:08:09 ◼   ► Honestly, I imagine the stocks developer

00:08:12 ◼   ► is sitting at Apple and there's like,

00:08:13 ◼   ► it's like that scene in "Ghostbusters"

00:08:15 ◼   ► where the call comes in and Janine says, "We got one," and presses a button and an alarm

00:08:22 ◼   ► goes off and everybody jumps to it. I imagine that's what happens when feedback comes in

00:08:26 ◼   ► for the Stocks app.

00:08:28 ◼   ► They have a fine person's poll and they like...

00:08:30 ◼   ► They care! They found a thing that we... And also I'll just say, this is the first time

00:08:36 ◼   ► I've opened the Stocks app in years, so thanks.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Hey, well, maybe the person who wrote this in is that person.

00:08:45 ◼   ► Maybe Steven, Steven, Steven, the sole developer of the Stocks app at Apple, wrote in to remind

00:08:51 ◼   ► us there's a new feature in the stocks app.

00:08:54 ◼   ► But I am very excited for Apple earnings on June 28th. I think it's going to be an interesting

00:08:59 ◼   ► one again, so I'm looking forward to it. We'll be talking about it at the end of the month.

00:09:03 ◼   ► Or beginning of July. I guess it's beginning of July, right?

00:09:06 ◼   ► - I guess, yeah, I guess that's right.

00:09:08 ◼   ► 'Cause it's the 28th, I've added it to my calendar all day.

00:09:12 ◼   ► - Of course you have.

00:09:13 ◼   ► - Party on the 28th.

00:09:14 ◼   ► And so on August 1st, I guess we'll talk about it

00:09:16 ◼   ► and there'll be charts and everybody.

00:09:18 ◼   ► Again, part of the day's partying and celebration

00:09:21 ◼   ► is the unveiling of the charts, right?

00:09:24 ◼   ► - I said June 28th, I meant July 28th, again.

00:09:27 ◼   ► - Oh, it's July 28th.

00:09:27 ◼   ► Okay, well your calendar was filed out as a feedback for you.

00:09:31 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:09:32 ◼   ► - You got the month wrong.

00:09:33 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:09:34 ◼   ► - Myke gets one.

00:09:35 ◼   ► - Hey Jason, the Discord always does.

00:09:36 ◼   ► - That's how I found that out.

00:09:38 ◼   ► They always file feedback.

00:09:39 ◼   ► Apple has received 52 Emmy award nominations.

00:09:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're still getting it,

00:09:46 ◼   ► Ted Lasso is still getting it done and Severance.

00:09:49 ◼   ► That's the one that I think is interesting

00:09:51 ◼   ► is that Severance peaked through there

00:09:53 ◼   ► and got enough attention to get 14 awards.

00:09:56 ◼   ► It's looking, there's a tough slate of nominees out there.

00:09:58 ◼   ► I'm, you know, it's gonna be tough.

00:10:01 ◼   ► Anything they win is gonna be impressive

00:10:03 ◼   ► because there's just so many,

00:10:05 ◼   ► - We're in peak, it's peak TV, Myke.

00:10:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was a, there was a lot.

00:10:08 ◼   ► - Platinum age of TV.

00:10:09 ◼   ► - 'Cause Apple got 52, but I think it was in Netflix

00:10:12 ◼   ► and HBO got more, right?

00:10:13 ◼   ► Which, I mean, makes sense,

00:10:14 ◼   ► but it's just to put that into perspective.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Ted Lasso got 20 nominations, Severance got 14,

00:10:20 ◼   ► and then there was another 11 shows that picked up

00:10:25 ◼   ► between one and three nominations.

00:10:27 ◼   ► I think Severance is gonna do pretty well,

00:10:30 ◼   ► and I reckon Ted Lasso's gonna do pretty well again.

00:10:34 ◼   ► - We'll see, like I said, I mean,

00:10:35 ◼   ► it's an honor just to be nominated.

00:10:37 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:37 ◼   ► - They're in some spectacularly tough categories,

00:10:40 ◼   ► but I think it says something about Severance

00:10:42 ◼   ► being the next kind of like critical darling

00:10:45 ◼   ► of Apple TV+ that it got 14 nominations.

00:10:49 ◼   ► - I reckon Severance is gonna get something.

00:10:51 ◼   ► My expectation is that like,

00:10:53 ◼   ► they're in the drama category, right?

00:10:55 ◼   ► And it's "Better Call Sauls" last season.

00:10:57 ◼   ► So I reckon that show's gonna pick up a few,

00:11:01 ◼   ► a few awards.

00:11:03 ◼   ► I kind of imagine it not exactly like but you know like Schitt's Creek when it was the

00:11:08 ◼   ► last one they swept it right I don't think they're gonna sweep it but I reckon there's

00:11:12 ◼   ► probably going to be quite a few awards going to to better call Saul which is a fantastic

00:11:17 ◼   ► TV show by the way that I love very much.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Trip Mickel which by the way I love that name so much Trip Mickel it's a fantastic name

00:11:24 ◼   ► like you're blessed of a name like that no one forgets your name if your name's Trip

00:11:28 ◼   ► Mickel it's a fantastic name Trip Mickel at the New York Times who recently wrote the

00:11:32 ◼   ► book about Johnny Ive, is reporting that Johnny Ive's relationship with Apple has come to

00:11:37 ◼   ► a close. So if you remember when Johnny left to start Love From, there was a consulting

00:11:44 ◼   ► relationship set up between Apple and Johnny Ive, which initially we all laughed at and

00:11:47 ◼   ► thought was just to keep up appearances, but over time it has come to light that no, Johnny

00:11:52 ◼   ► has actually been really involved, and this may have been one of the problems. So the

00:11:56 ◼   ► The New York Times piece says that basically neither side, both Apple and LoveFrom, were

00:12:02 ◼   ► completely happy with the arrangement as it was set.

00:12:05 ◼   ► So it was a multi-year contract that cost Apple $100 million for Johnny, I guess that's

00:12:11 ◼   ► the retainer fee, but Apple had approval over LoveFrom's client list.

00:12:17 ◼   ► And it seemed like these two things made it when they came to the table to renegotiate,

00:12:21 ◼   ► it seemed like both were actually okay with walking away.

00:12:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, interesting story.

00:12:27 ◼   ► As we do here, we wonder like what's the source of this.

00:12:30 ◼   ► He definitely has some good Johnny Ive Camp sources

00:12:33 ◼   ► as came out in his book,

00:12:34 ◼   ► but I wonder if there's some Apple sourcing here too,

00:12:39 ◼   ► given, 'cause I don't think that Johnny Ive's camp

00:12:43 ◼   ► would be like, Apple is unhappy that they're paying him

00:12:46 ◼   ► a lot of money for nothing, right?

00:12:48 ◼   ► That's an Apple thing.

00:12:49 ◼   ► So I'm fascinated by that on one level,

00:12:52 ◼   ► But look, big picture here when this came out,

00:12:56 ◼   ► my immediate thought was it's just the last step

00:12:58 ◼   ► in the long slow fade of this happens

00:13:01 ◼   ► with incredibly high level executives.

00:13:06 ◼   ► Sometimes you end up with this thing,

00:13:08 ◼   ► which is the person has got their foot out the door,

00:13:13 ◼   ► but there's value in the company

00:13:15 ◼   ► keeping a visible relationship with them.

00:13:18 ◼   ► It calms the investors.

00:13:20 ◼   ► It makes everybody feel okay about it.

00:13:22 ◼   ► and they essentially pay that person to kind of consult.

00:13:26 ◼   ► Like that is a classic, pay them to consult.

00:13:28 ◼   ► My uncle was a VP of human resources

00:13:32 ◼   ► for a fortune 500 company and he retired

00:13:35 ◼   ► and then he consulted for a while.

00:13:37 ◼   ► And they actually had to,

00:13:38 ◼   ► they didn't have anybody with a skill set.

00:13:40 ◼   ► So they actually did bring him back

00:13:41 ◼   ► to do some stuff for them.

00:13:42 ◼   ► But it reminded me of that where it's the classic,

00:13:45 ◼   ► oh, he's still around, he's consulting.

00:13:48 ◼   ► And it's part of, this is just like,

00:13:51 ◼   ► this is how this was always gonna be with Johnny

00:13:53 ◼   ► is like they're gonna give him different titles

00:13:54 ◼   ► and he was gonna come in a lot less

00:13:56 ◼   ► and then he was gonna kind of just peek in

00:13:59 ◼   ► or work on a special project, special projects,

00:14:02 ◼   ► that's a classic one too, right?

00:14:04 ◼   ► Oh, they're moving on to special projects

00:14:06 ◼   ► which might be nothing.

00:14:08 ◼   ► And then this is like the final step in the process

00:14:13 ◼   ► of sort of removing the bonds between Apple and Johnny Ive

00:14:18 ◼   ► is this, now we are wrapping up our relationship with them.

00:14:21 ◼   ► So I'm sure, and like you could cast this as,

00:14:26 ◼   ► oh, Apple didn't think they were getting value for money

00:14:28 ◼   ► here and that's what Tripp Mickel's report says is,

00:14:32 ◼   ► people inside Apple are like,

00:14:33 ◼   ► we're paying him what, for what, right?

00:14:34 ◼   ► And I get that.

00:14:36 ◼   ► The answer is you're paying him to cushion the panic

00:14:41 ◼   ► in some people in Wall Street about Johnny Ive being seen

00:14:46 ◼   ► as some sort of a magical being who is the last connection to Steve Jobs' Apple and that

00:14:51 ◼   ► without him, Apple is rudderless. And by having him not just disappear but instead slowly

00:14:56 ◼   ► go out the door. And by the way, that timing of last week having the GQ article with Evans

00:15:03 ◼   ► Hankey who now leads, she now leads Apple's design team quoted about the MacBook Air design

00:15:11 ◼   ► like this is the moment where Apple sends the message like, "You know, I know you remember

00:15:15 ◼   ► Johnny but it's been a while and we've been soldiering on without him and everything's

00:15:20 ◼   ► fine so that's what they got for their money is that which is the long slow fade instead

00:15:25 ◼   ► of an abrupt departure that would have upset potentially markets and hurt Apple in the

00:15:31 ◼   ► stock market and you know that's what that's what this is I I mean maybe they maybe he

00:15:36 ◼   ► was involved in some stuff a little bit but I'm I'm sure that those people at Apple who

00:15:41 ◼   ► who are saying we're paying him what for what

00:15:44 ◼   ► are absolutely right.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Like, no, of course it doesn't make sense.

00:15:46 ◼   ► That's not why they were really paying him that.

00:15:48 ◼   ► But I think it is interesting that this came out in a story

00:15:51 ◼   ► and that honestly, I'm surprised it happened so quickly.

00:15:55 ◼   ► I thought that they, you know, Apple's got all the money.

00:15:57 ◼   ► They could do this for longer,

00:15:59 ◼   ► but it may just be that Johnny Ive is a little restless

00:16:04 ◼   ► and still, and that Apple doesn't think

00:16:07 ◼   ► that they actually need that connection anymore.

00:16:09 ◼   ► So I liked, I think you guys were talking about this

00:16:12 ◼   ► on Connected last week, but the idea here too,

00:16:15 ◼   ► that like Johnny and I have,

00:16:16 ◼   ► I don't think he's gonna rush out

00:16:18 ◼   ► and suddenly design a laptop for HP or something.

00:16:21 ◼   ► - You're thinking of dithering.

00:16:23 ◼   ► This is a conversation.

00:16:24 ◼   ► - Oh, dithering talk about that too?

00:16:25 ◼   ► I mean, I listened to so many podcasts over the weekend

00:16:27 ◼   ► while I was traveling.

00:16:28 ◼   ► So I'll just take it up,

00:16:30 ◼   ► as you may have heard on other podcasts or maybe not,

00:16:32 ◼   ► here's the thing.

00:16:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:33 ◼   ► Johnny and I was bored designing computers, right?

00:16:36 ◼   ► Now, maybe there's some truth to the fact

00:16:38 ◼   ► that if he's starting out love from,

00:16:41 ◼   ► he can make a lot of money putting his name on things

00:16:43 ◼   ► that he's not that involved with,

00:16:45 ◼   ► that he hires people to design

00:16:47 ◼   ► for people in the tech industry, smartphones and laptops

00:16:50 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:16:51 ◼   ► But I think the smart argument is

00:16:55 ◼   ► if Johnny I wanted to keep making laptops,

00:16:57 ◼   ► he would have stayed at Apple.

00:16:58 ◼   ► He's bored, he's bored with laptops.

00:16:59 ◼   ► He's been there, done that, solved that,

00:17:03 ◼   ► or at least in his mind he has.

00:17:04 ◼   ► So I think he's gone on to other things,

00:17:09 ◼   ► and it'll all be high-design stuff and weird stuff

00:17:12 ◼   ► that regular people won't buy, probably, and that's fine.

00:17:15 ◼   ► That's like he's ascended into whatever kind of white room

00:17:19 ◼   ► he ascends into, and then he'll live there

00:17:22 ◼   ► and design very expensive products

00:17:24 ◼   ► that most people will never use.

00:17:26 ◼   ► That's probably where he's going.

00:17:27 ◼   ► I mean, I could be wrong.

00:17:29 ◼   ► He could be like the next Oxo Good Grips

00:17:32 ◼   ► or design some hex wrenches that everybody loves,

00:17:35 ◼   ► but probably not.

00:17:37 ◼   ► - I mean, his client list so far has been luxury stuff,

00:17:41 ◼   ► but that may have been because Apple didn't want him

00:17:43 ◼   ► working on consumer electronics.

00:17:45 ◼   ► There could be some.

00:17:46 ◼   ► I agree that he's probably not gonna make a laptop

00:17:49 ◼   ► or an iPhone, but there could be,

00:17:50 ◼   ► he might make a pair of headphones.

00:17:51 ◼   ► You never know, I could imagine.

00:17:53 ◼   ► - Sure, and it might be a broad, essentially non-compete,

00:17:56 ◼   ► which by the way, non-competes are not enforceable

00:17:58 ◼   ► in California, so this is one way you would do that

00:18:00 ◼   ► is you would say, "Well, we're just gonna pay you

00:18:02 ◼   ► to not compete with us for a while.

00:18:04 ◼   ► But again, I think the scenarios are,

00:18:06 ◼   ► it's either something that's esoteric,

00:18:08 ◼   ► or it's a scenario where he wants to build this company up

00:18:11 ◼   ► with money, but in the long run,

00:18:14 ◼   ► is he gonna be putting his best work

00:18:15 ◼   ► into a consumer electronic product?

00:18:18 ◼   ► My guess is no.

00:18:19 ◼   ► That doesn't mean that he might not accept the job

00:18:21 ◼   ► and have his minions, his underlings work on it

00:18:26 ◼   ► with Johnny popping in every now and then

00:18:28 ◼   ► to give a little wink and a nod and then disappear again.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Like it has been reported, and John Gruber did some additional reporting on this, that like

00:18:35 ◼   ► people at Apple have still been going to Johnny for approvals.

00:18:39 ◼   ► And the thing that I don't know about this is if like that's been an official thing or

00:18:44 ◼   ► if he was still around and you've worked with him forever, would you not want his opinion?

00:18:48 ◼   ► Like, I'm not sure what's going on there.

00:18:51 ◼   ► But apparently that was upsetting some people, which I understand.

00:18:54 ◼   ► And also some executives at Apple were upset that people from Johnny's old design team left

00:18:59 ◼   ► Apple to join Love from.

00:19:01 ◼   ► That's also true, right?

00:19:02 ◼   ► That they're hiring people away from Apple

00:19:04 ◼   ► and that that isn't necessarily a very happy kind of thing.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Yeah, if I was a manager at Apple

00:19:08 ◼   ► and I was seeing people go to Johnny Ive,

00:19:10 ◼   ► who's basically been sidelined and is on his way out

00:19:13 ◼   ► and like using him and, you know, the counter argument is,

00:19:17 ◼   ► well, but he's, it's Johnny Ive, why would we not use him?

00:19:20 ◼   ► And I'm like, I get that, but at the same time,

00:19:21 ◼   ► he's not in charge, right?

00:19:23 ◼   ► Like you could pick his brain,

00:19:24 ◼   ► but I could see a manager at Apple being like,

00:19:27 ◼   ► why is he inserting himself, right?

00:19:29 ◼   ► Maybe it wasn't completely clear, honestly.

00:19:31 ◼   ► Like maybe Johnny's still around.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - It's weird.

00:19:35 ◼   ► - Right, like they need to get rid of him so they can move on

00:19:38 ◼   ► and I think this is good, best for everyone.

00:19:40 ◼   ► - In the high level, I think this is just works as designed,

00:19:45 ◼   ► which is, this is the fade away.

00:19:48 ◼   ► This is the slow severing of the relationship

00:19:51 ◼   ► so that everybody lands gently.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Apple gets some continuity.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Johnny gets some money to start up his next thing

00:19:58 ◼   ► and now it's over.

00:19:59 ◼   ► And that's fine. - Everyone sleeps easy.

00:20:03 ◼   ► - I hope so, on a probably a big bed of money.

00:20:07 ◼   ► By the way, Tripp Mickles, do you think he's the third?

00:20:11 ◼   ► Do you think he's like Reginald Mickle the third?

00:20:13 ◼   ► Think that's where that's from?

00:20:14 ◼   ► Or is he actually named Tripp?

00:20:17 ◼   ► - Ooh, that's a good one.

00:20:19 ◼   ► I would like to know if anybody knows.

00:20:21 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:20:21 ◼   ► I looked, he's from Charlotte, North Carolina.

00:20:23 ◼   ► Went to Wake Forest, went to Columbia journalism school,

00:20:26 ◼   ► I think.

00:20:27 ◼   ► but I can't find any sort of historical,

00:20:29 ◼   ► like a picture of him as a kid in a white suit

00:20:32 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:20:33 ◼   ► with his dad, Reginald Mickle II

00:20:37 ◼   ► and his grandfather, Reginald Mickle I.

00:20:40 ◼   ► I'm just making all of that up,

00:20:42 ◼   ► but I just wonder sometimes you see a trip

00:20:44 ◼   ► and you wonder.

00:20:47 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by Mode.

00:20:49 ◼   ► And I wanna talk to you about some of their keyboards.

00:20:51 ◼   ► They have some beautiful ones.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Over the past couple of years,

00:20:54 ◼   ► I think you may know by now,

00:20:55 ◼   ► I've gotten pretty deep into the mechanical keyboard hobby.

00:20:57 ◼   ► I've even dragged Jason in a little bit more, a little bit further, a little bit further.

00:21:00 ◼   ► Jason was first, then I went head first and then brought him along for the ride.

00:21:04 ◼   ► I have a real love for the beautiful designs that people create, both the keycaps and the

00:21:10 ◼   ► keyboards themselves.

00:21:11 ◼   ► I love the customisation of finding just the right pairing, so things feel and look exactly

00:21:16 ◼   ► how they want, and I've come to really appreciate the joy of putting these things together myself.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Over my time in the keyboard hobby, my favourite products have been designed and manufactured

00:21:25 ◼   ► by Mode.

00:21:26 ◼   ► For me they are like the apple of keyboards, their products are beautiful, well made and

00:21:31 ◼   ► the process of buying them is really thought out and user friendly.

00:21:35 ◼   ► One of my favourite things that they've nailed so far is the level of customisation options

00:21:38 ◼   ► available for their keyboards.

00:21:39 ◼   ► You can choose the colours, materials, even design accent pieces and fancy internal weights

00:21:45 ◼   ► which you can all visualise in real time in their website.

00:21:48 ◼   ► It lets you craft something that's going to look perfect in your own workspace.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Mode have two keyboards that are available.

00:21:54 ◼   ► They have the 80 which is in stock and shipping now.

00:21:58 ◼   ► This is an incredibly rare thing in the keyboard hobby.

00:22:00 ◼   ► And also the Sonnet which is their newest product

00:22:03 ◼   ► that we're shipping later on this year.

00:22:05 ◼   ► I've owned an 80 for well over a year.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Mode sent me a early unit of the Sonnet to check out

00:22:11 ◼   ► a few months ago and I am in love with the Sonnet.

00:22:14 ◼   ► It is the perfect balance of design,

00:22:16 ◼   ► customization and utility for me.

00:22:18 ◼   ► I'm also gonna be building their newest version

00:22:20 ◼   ► of the Mode 80 on Twitch.

00:22:22 ◼   ► It's either going to be this Friday or next Friday, so you can keep an eye out for it.

00:22:25 ◼   ► Both the Sonnet and the AT have different layouts.

00:22:28 ◼   ► You can choose whichever one works best for you, either functionally or aesthetically.

00:22:31 ◼   ► But what you'll find with both is an incredible care, a level of attention to detail, the

00:22:37 ◼   ► highest level of quality, and an all-round excellent experience, as they are machined

00:22:41 ◼   ► with incredibly high precision and thought and care.

00:22:43 ◼   ► I love these products.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Both of these keyboards are my favorite.

00:22:46 ◼   ► I use them all the time.

00:22:48 ◼   ► Keyboards are a tool that we use to get our best work done.

00:22:51 ◼   ► So why should you have to settle for anything less than the best?

00:22:54 ◼   ► And quite frankly, why would you want your keyboard to sound like this?

00:22:59 ◼   ► When it could sound like this.

00:23:03 ◼   ► Mode keyboards are wonderful to build with incredibly detailed and easy to follow instructions

00:23:07 ◼   ► and truly make typing an event to look forward to.

00:23:09 ◼   ► It's one of the things that makes your day a little bit more enjoyable.

00:23:13 ◼   ► You can find out more today by going to modedesigns.com/upgradefm.

00:23:17 ◼   ► mode designs dot com slash upgrade FM there'll be a link in the show notes. Mode it's time to rethink

00:23:23 ◼   ► keyboards. Our thanks to Mode for the support of this show and Relay FM. Jason Snell let's talk

00:23:27 ◼   ► about the 2022 M2 MacBook Air. Let's do it I've got one do you have one? I do have one actually.

00:23:34 ◼   ► I had a midnight M2 MacBook Air arrive about 45 minutes from before we started today's episode.

00:23:47 ◼   ► It is a review unit from Apple. And yeah, I have it right now. I just finished the migration

00:23:54 ◼   ► assistant before we started recording, which went very quickly. Migration assistant is incredible.

00:23:58 ◼   ► - My favorite feature in migration assistant is the multiple streams of network that it will

00:24:04 ◼   ► actually show you like, oh, you have a Thunderbolt cable and you have Wi-Fi and you have ethernet.

00:24:07 ◼   ► And we've tested them all and this is the fastest and so we're picking that one. And that's very

00:24:12 ◼   ► impressive. And, you know, I love that they show it. And yeah, I've used it several times

00:24:19 ◼   ► because I review laptops and stuff, right? And so I'm doing a lot of migrations and it works great.

00:24:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I used the Thunderbolt cable and I mean, it just did it so fast. It was like so fast that

00:24:33 ◼   ► I kind of couldn't believe that it finished. So yeah, I have the Midnight model. I have the,

00:24:39 ◼   ► let me see what I've got. I've got 8GB of RAM, which was a surprise to me. 512GB storage.

00:24:49 ◼   ► And it's, I think I have the one with the 10 GPU cores, 8 CPU cores.

00:24:55 ◼   ► And you had a relatively similar one in Starlight, right?

00:25:01 ◼   ► Yeah, in Starlight. Not my favorite color, but that's what they had.

00:25:06 ◼   ► I do really like the way the midnight looks. I mean, I will confirm it's already covered in

00:25:11 ◼   ► fingerprints. I don't care about that, personally. If I was buying one of these, this is the color I

00:25:18 ◼   ► would go for because it's the new color. Like, the one that looks really new color. Because

00:25:22 ◼   ► the starlight that you have in the images that you put on in your review, it just looks silver.

00:25:29 ◼   ► it just looks silver i know it is the it is the most subtle of all the the colors right because

00:25:37 ◼   ► it is it's not like a bold gold or something right it is silver with a yellow undertone instead of a

00:25:43 ◼   ► blue undertone it it's it's noticeable but it's super subtle yeah it's not i don't really think

00:25:50 ◼   ► that it it's surprising to me to have both silver and starlight like that's you know midnight and

00:25:57 ◼   ► In space grey, I can actually kind of see why you would have both of those available

00:26:01 ◼   ► because this does look somewhere between blue and black, right?

00:26:06 ◼   ► So like it has got a different look to it.

00:26:08 ◼   ► I thought that Starlight and Midnight were the new silver in space grey.

00:26:11 ◼   ► That's what, yeah.

00:26:12 ◼   ► And they would just clear them out.

00:26:14 ◼   ► But they didn't do that.

00:26:15 ◼   ► They're all, the gang's all here.

00:26:18 ◼   ► Nothing's getting rid of space grey, it seems like now.

00:26:22 ◼   ► Space grey, is it the new silver or is silver the new silver?

00:26:25 ◼   ► Like those, like I don't, I don't again, because we, every time we talk about this, people

00:26:29 ◼   ► say, you know, I don't want a colorful thing.

00:26:31 ◼   ► It's like, it's fine.

00:26:32 ◼   ► Like Apple's not going to stop making boring colored products for people who don't want

00:26:37 ◼   ► to have a pop of color in their, in the, in the Apple products they're using.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Like it's fine.

00:26:42 ◼   ► There will always be a silver MacBook, right?

00:26:44 ◼   ► There will always, always be a silver option or a space gray option or both.

00:26:48 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, the, the, you know, I think the starlight is, is nice.

00:26:53 ◼   ► I think it's a nice change from Silver. I think it's a little different and that's a

00:26:57 ◼   ► good thing. Midnight is the one that feels the most different, which is what's exciting

00:27:01 ◼   ► about it.

00:27:02 ◼   ► David: My kind of, I've only got initial impressions, right? You spent like a good few days, if

00:27:07 ◼   ► not a week with yours. I don't know exactly, but I picked it up to bring it from my desk

00:27:16 ◼   ► to where I'm recording now, the digital desk that I have in my studio.

00:27:19 ◼   ► And as someone who, I daily a MacBook Pro and I take that laptop put it in my bag

00:27:25 ◼   ► every day, you know like I'm used to picking it up, I can immediately feel the

00:27:31 ◼   ► difference. Like this is not, I would say it's a light computer, it's lighter. The

00:27:35 ◼   ► thinness I think is the the biggest thing that I can tell is the difference.

00:27:39 ◼   ► You know like it really feels as many people have said much more like an iPad

00:27:46 ◼   ► with a keyboard than a laptop, I think, in the way that it feels to hold in my hand.

00:27:50 ◼   ► It's noticeably lighter than the M1 Air. I, you know, I pick up, I can pick them up in

00:27:58 ◼   ► succession and it's like, it's not one of those imperceptible, it's like, oh yeah. And

00:28:01 ◼   ► some of that is the weight because it is lighter, but some of that is also the spread of the

00:28:04 ◼   ► weight because it's got a slightly larger footprint, it's a little bit deeper, but it's

00:28:08 ◼   ► thinner overall even though it's, you know, thinner than the thick part but thicker than

00:28:13 ◼   ► than the thin part of the M1 Air,

00:28:15 ◼   ► but overall it's thinner on average.

00:28:17 ◼   ► And so the volume is less,

00:28:18 ◼   ► but that also means the way to sort of spread out.

00:28:20 ◼   ► And so I think that they're both of those things

00:28:23 ◼   ► are going on there where it feels a little more balanced

00:28:25 ◼   ► and it also feels it because it is lighter.

00:28:28 ◼   ► And so, yeah, it comes across as being really light.

00:28:31 ◼   ► And then there's just, you know, the old Apple design,

00:28:35 ◼   ► I keep struggling on ways to describe it,

00:28:38 ◼   ► you know, use words to describe it.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Sometimes I refer to it as pillowy,

00:28:41 ◼   ► but you know it's that thing where at the,

00:28:43 ◼   ► it's almost like a really, really subtle dome

00:28:47 ◼   ► where at the edges there's this slow sort of drop off.

00:28:51 ◼   ► So you get the sense that it's almost like

00:28:54 ◼   ► the edges are just a little bit lower than the center.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Where that's the classic MacBook Air design.

00:29:01 ◼   ► It's the design on,

00:29:02 ◼   ► it became the classic sort of MacBook Pro design.

00:29:06 ◼   ► But these new MacBook Pros from last year

00:29:08 ◼   ► and the MacBook Air now, that's not it, right?

00:29:10 ◼   ► Like those surfaces are entirely flat,

00:29:12 ◼   ► and then there's an edge to the next surface.

00:29:17 ◼   ► And that is a really different feel.

00:29:19 ◼   ► Like you mentioned the iPad,

00:29:20 ◼   ► like the iPad Pro was originally like that, right?

00:29:23 ◼   ► And a lot of iPad models had that curved back thing.

00:29:26 ◼   ► And then they went away from that

00:29:30 ◼   ► and they went to flat sides, flat back.

00:29:32 ◼   ► And that's a design thing

00:29:34 ◼   ► that they're bringing through their whole product line.

00:29:36 ◼   ► And it's good, it works, it feels modern.

00:29:39 ◼   ► You know, I'm sure in 10 years people will look at this and be like, "Oh, it feels old."

00:29:44 ◼   ► But that's fashion. That's how it is. But it feels great, looks great, and it is, yeah,

00:29:48 ◼   ► it does have that kind of iPad vibe. It's about the size in one dimension of the 12.9-inch

00:29:55 ◼   ► iPad Pro, but it's taller than that, and obviously it's thicker than that. But it's reminiscent

00:30:00 ◼   ► for sure.

00:30:01 ◼   ► - I mean, and I guess part of the tallness comes from the screen size change, right?

00:30:06 ◼   ► it's gone up a little bit, it's gained a notch.

00:30:09 ◼   ► All of that makes sense to me.

00:30:12 ◼   ► It's like, this is the modern design.

00:30:14 ◼   ► You know, you can like it or not like it,

00:30:15 ◼   ► but now when I open this MacBook Air,

00:30:18 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, this is a modern computer.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Like, it just looks like a modern computer to me.

00:30:22 ◼   ► And you know, we can argue as to whether that's a good thing

00:30:24 ◼   ► but that's just what it is.

00:30:26 ◼   ► - When I was running my review, I was thinking,

00:30:29 ◼   ► okay, I gotta talk about the notch again.

00:30:31 ◼   ► Like, literally what I wanna do is just paste

00:30:33 ◼   ► in the paragraph I wrote about the notch

00:30:34 ◼   ► for the 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pros.

00:30:37 ◼   ► There are people out there who hate the notch.

00:30:40 ◼   ► I just gotta say, I don't get it.

00:30:41 ◼   ► I don't get it.

00:30:42 ◼   ► It's more space.

00:30:43 ◼   ► It's space that would otherwise not be there

00:30:44 ◼   ► if there was no notch.

00:30:45 ◼   ► It's not like they're intruding a notch

00:30:47 ◼   ► into your precious screen space that you had.

00:30:49 ◼   ► They basically have extended the height of the screen,

00:30:53 ◼   ► but to do so, they've had to still leave the sensors there.

00:30:57 ◼   ► So they're giving, and they built,

00:30:59 ◼   ► for macOS, they've built the menu bar around the notch.

00:31:02 ◼   ► So what you're really getting is a free menu bar.

00:31:05 ◼   ► And the menu bar space that previously was on your laptop

00:31:07 ◼   ► is now content space because the menu bar is hiding

00:31:10 ◼   ► up with the notch.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Now there are scenarios where you use a particular app

00:31:15 ◼   ► that has like lots and lots of windows

00:31:17 ◼   ► or lots and lots of menu items,

00:31:19 ◼   ► or you've got lots of menu bar items

00:31:21 ◼   ► in the upper right hand corner of your screen

00:31:23 ◼   ► where it can be a problem

00:31:25 ◼   ► 'cause the notch is sort of like taking up space there.

00:31:27 ◼   ► But I feel like those are edge cases.

00:31:31 ◼   ► I don't use apps that do that.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Even BB Edit, which can do that, I mostly just turn off.

00:31:36 ◼   ► It has a lot of extraneous menus that I don't use,

00:31:38 ◼   ► so I just turn them off and it's not a big deal.

00:31:40 ◼   ► I use Bartender, so that actually reduces the number

00:31:43 ◼   ► of menu items that I have on the right side.

00:31:45 ◼   ► And you get used to it, it's not that big a deal,

00:31:49 ◼   ► and you get more content out of it, that's the truth.

00:31:50 ◼   ► If you really hate it, there's a setting for you

00:31:52 ◼   ► to turn it off and pretend that the notch isn't there,

00:31:54 ◼   ► and you just live in a smaller screen.

00:31:56 ◼   ► But I think more screen space is better,

00:31:59 ◼   ► and having the menu bar up there is better.

00:32:01 ◼   ► So that's, you know, if people don't like the notch,

00:32:03 ◼   ► okay, that's fine.

00:32:05 ◼   ► I think it's, I think it's an, I mean, look,

00:32:07 ◼   ► would it be better if it went all the way to the edge

00:32:09 ◼   ► and there was no notch at all?

00:32:10 ◼   ► Sure, but we don't, you know, we don't live in that world.

00:32:14 ◼   ► But I'm glad that they made the effort to redesign Mac OS

00:32:18 ◼   ► in order to eke out more space up there anyway

00:32:21 ◼   ► with something that actually feels natural,

00:32:23 ◼   ► which is the menu bar, which is not really part

00:32:25 ◼   ► of the universe of your computer anyway

00:32:27 ◼   ► and can hide up there.

00:32:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I have no problem with the notch at all.

00:32:32 ◼   ► It is what it is, right?

00:32:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:32:35 ◼   ► - I would say that the screen,

00:32:37 ◼   ► the thing that I immediately noticed

00:32:39 ◼   ► wasn't the thing that I expected

00:32:41 ◼   ► would be the thing that I would immediately notice, right?

00:32:42 ◼   ► So coming from a MacBook Pro, the 14-inch MacBook Pro,

00:32:46 ◼   ► it wasn't the size, it wasn't the promotion,

00:32:49 ◼   ► it was the brightness.

00:32:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:32:50 ◼   ► - I really noticed that.

00:32:51 ◼   ► - This is brighter than the M1 MacBook Air,

00:32:53 ◼   ► but it's only 500 nits.

00:32:54 ◼   ► It's not, look, okay, so this looks like a MacBook Pro.

00:32:57 ◼   ► And in fact, in that story I mentioned earlier

00:32:59 ◼   ► from GQ in the UK, the Evans-Hankey quotes

00:33:02 ◼   ► are all about how they designed the 14

00:33:05 ◼   ► and 16-inch MacBook Pro and this MacBook Air together.

00:33:07 ◼   ► And they're of a kind, and they do.

00:33:10 ◼   ► If you put them down together,

00:33:12 ◼   ► they look like they are a laptop family,

00:33:14 ◼   ► which calls into question the existence

00:33:15 ◼   ► of that 13-inch MacBook Pro.

00:33:17 ◼   ► We've already talked about that.

00:33:18 ◼   ► Doesn't make sense, except it does, you know,

00:33:22 ◼   ► it's an outlier, just like the M1 Air is an outlier now

00:33:24 ◼   ► 'cause it's an older model.

00:33:25 ◼   ► But if you look at Apple's core laptops,

00:33:28 ◼   ► it's 13 Air and then 14 and 16 Pro,

00:33:31 ◼   ► and they are all of a kind, they look exactly the same.

00:33:35 ◼   ► They've been brought together in that way.

00:33:38 ◼   ► Okay, so what differentiates the Air from the Pro?

00:33:40 ◼   ► Because the Air starts several hundred dollars less

00:33:45 ◼   ► than the Pro's start.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Well, what do you lose?

00:33:48 ◼   ► You lose a port, but you lose power

00:33:53 ◼   ► because they have the higher power processors

00:33:55 ◼   ► and the M2 does not match up with an M1 Pro or an M1 Max.

00:33:58 ◼   ► But the big thing I think you lose is the screen.

00:34:01 ◼   ► The screen, while nicer for a MacBook Air

00:34:04 ◼   ► than any MacBook Air screen before,

00:34:06 ◼   ► is not the higher resolution, very bright, HDR capable,

00:34:11 ◼   ► and high refresh rate ProMotion display.

00:34:18 ◼   ► That is like the number one thing you don't get.

00:34:22 ◼   ► It's actually kind of iPad-like, right?

00:34:23 ◼   ► like the high end computer gets the pretty display.

00:34:27 ◼   ► It's a little like that.

00:34:28 ◼   ► So there's a super fancy display

00:34:29 ◼   ► on those high end MacBook Pros.

00:34:31 ◼   ► MacBook Air doesn't have it.

00:34:33 ◼   ► And that's, I think the biggest,

00:34:36 ◼   ► single biggest difference other than,

00:34:37 ◼   ► I guess, the processor family, right?

00:34:39 ◼   ► But like that display is a good display for a MacBook Air,

00:34:43 ◼   ► but it is not close.

00:34:44 ◼   ► Like the MacBook Pro display experience

00:34:46 ◼   ► is gonna be way better.

00:34:47 ◼   ► Except for the 13.

00:34:50 ◼   ► The 13 doesn't count.

00:34:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, we're not talking about that one.

00:34:53 ◼   ► - No, we-- - We're talking about it

00:34:54 ◼   ► in comparison, we'll make it very clear.

00:34:56 ◼   ► We're talking about MacBook Pro,

00:34:57 ◼   ► we're talking about the new ones.

00:34:59 ◼   ► - The proper modern Apple laptop lineup now

00:35:02 ◼   ► is M2 MacBook Air, 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pro.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And then Apple also makes two other computers

00:35:09 ◼   ► that are in their old design

00:35:10 ◼   ► that are also available for sale as laptops.

00:35:13 ◼   ► And that's it, that's what the laptop situation is right now.

00:35:16 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Do you have any particular thoughts about the M2 chip?

00:35:22 ◼   ► - Oh, it is what it is.

00:35:27 ◼   ► It's the same chip.

00:35:28 ◼   ► I mean, the lesson we learned with the M1

00:35:30 ◼   ► that came in so many different computers

00:35:32 ◼   ► is that essentially you're getting the same chip

00:35:35 ◼   ► in a different wrapper.

00:35:36 ◼   ► So it is the same one that we talked about

00:35:40 ◼   ► with the MacBook Pro, 13 inch.

00:35:42 ◼   ► It's the M2.

00:35:43 ◼   ► It's faster than the M1 in a lot of ways.

00:35:45 ◼   ► It has the ability to run at higher power.

00:35:51 ◼   ► That also means that it can get warmer.

00:35:53 ◼   ► I did some tests of the M1 or the M2 Air

00:35:58 ◼   ► versus the M2 13-inch Pro,

00:36:02 ◼   ► which we said we weren't gonna talk about,

00:36:03 ◼   ► but now I'm gonna talk about it 'cause it's the same chip.

00:36:05 ◼   ► And I was just trying to detect at what point it separates

00:36:08 ◼   ► because the Air doesn't have a fan and the MacBook Pro does.

00:36:12 ◼   ► Now we could argue that the MacBook Pro

00:36:14 ◼   ► has its own thermal issues and that maybe it's not,

00:36:16 ◼   ► you know, doesn't have that great a cooling system,

00:36:19 ◼   ► but it does have a fan, right?

00:36:20 ◼   ► It at least does have a fan in there.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And the answer was, could I get the MacBook Pro

00:36:25 ◼   ► to run faster than the MacBook Air?

00:36:28 ◼   ► 'Cause that's the one thing the MacBook Pro

00:36:29 ◼   ► has going for it is the fan.

00:36:31 ◼   ► Well, I did a bunch of stuff.

00:36:33 ◼   ► I did an isotope de-reverb,

00:36:36 ◼   ► which is like the reason I buy computers

00:36:38 ◼   ► with lots of processor cores, because it takes forever.

00:36:41 ◼   ► De-reverb-ing an echoey room for somebody

00:36:44 ◼   ► who's playing Dungeons and Dragons

00:36:45 ◼   ► for Total Party Kill for three hours.

00:36:48 ◼   ► That is a long, long process.

00:36:52 ◼   ► So I did a de-reverb that took about five minutes,

00:36:54 ◼   ► so it was a shorter file,

00:36:55 ◼   ► and the times between the two were the same.

00:36:58 ◼   ► Didn't see any divergence.

00:37:02 ◼   ► I did a Final Cut Pro export,

00:37:03 ◼   ► which I'll grant you was a 1080, it was not a 4K export.

00:37:06 ◼   ► It was a 1080 export, took about two hours,

00:37:07 ◼   ► or 20 minutes, took about 20 minutes

00:37:10 ◼   ► on the second identical.

00:37:13 ◼   ► Okay, no change, nothing different.

00:37:15 ◼   ► In the end, what I ended up doing to find any difference

00:37:17 ◼   ► always take Cinebench, which is a CPU-based benchmark that does rendering, and you can

00:37:23 ◼   ► put it on a loop and say, "Run this test for," in my case, I just said, "for 10 minutes.

00:37:27 ◼   ► Run it until it's after 10 minutes and then give me the score." And on the 10-minute test,

00:37:33 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro was a little tiny bit faster. And you can see the results in my review.

00:37:39 ◼   ► It was marginally faster. So there was definitely some throttling going on in the MacBook Air

00:37:44 ◼   ► that was not going on in the MacBook Pro at that point.

00:37:46 ◼   ► But I'll point out, it was still,

00:37:48 ◼   ► both of them were still way faster than the M1 Air.

00:37:51 ◼   ► So there's that.

00:37:53 ◼   ► And two, they were, they're both way slower

00:37:55 ◼   ► than the MacBook Pro, the 14 and 16, right?

00:37:58 ◼   ► So they are what they are.

00:37:59 ◼   ► They are exactly what you expect them to be.

00:38:01 ◼   ► And I appreciate that tech,

00:38:06 ◼   ► Twitter and YouTube and podcasts delves deep in things like

00:38:13 ◼   ► throttling and performance and all of that,

00:38:15 ◼   ► because you wanna keep Apple honest.

00:38:19 ◼   ► That said, nobody should be talking about throttling

00:38:23 ◼   ► on the MacBook Air, 'cause it's not relevant.

00:38:26 ◼   ► Like, the work you have to go to,

00:38:29 ◼   ► to get it to throttle at all, is so much that,

00:38:34 ◼   ► and what's the worst that happens?

00:38:37 ◼   ► It gets a little warmer, it doesn't really get hot,

00:38:40 ◼   ► but it gets warm and it slows down a little bit,

00:38:43 ◼   ► but it's still much faster than an M1 computer,

00:38:45 ◼   ► way faster than an Intel-based MacBook Air

00:38:47 ◼   ► that you were using before.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And so the worst that happens is you have to wait

00:38:52 ◼   ► a little longer.

00:38:53 ◼   ► And in most cases you don't,

00:38:55 ◼   ► because the bar has been set so high for performance now

00:39:00 ◼   ► with the Apple Silicon chips,

00:39:01 ◼   ► that what we used to call an extreme workload

00:39:04 ◼   ► in extended conditions, like even a couple of years ago,

00:39:08 ◼   ► is no longer extreme.

00:39:10 ◼   ► because it just does it without a sweat.

00:39:12 ◼   ► So you're left with finding these edge cases

00:39:14 ◼   ► where it really pushes it over the edge.

00:39:16 ◼   ► And what I would say there is,

00:39:17 ◼   ► if you're looking for an edge case like that,

00:39:19 ◼   ► well, you have a choice to make,

00:39:21 ◼   ► which is if you can afford it,

00:39:23 ◼   ► you can buy the MacBook Pro,

00:39:24 ◼   ► which is gonna be way faster

00:39:26 ◼   ► and has a better cooling system.

00:39:28 ◼   ► Or if you'd rather have a small laptop that's cheaper,

00:39:31 ◼   ► just use the MacBook Air,

00:39:32 ◼   ► and it will be a little slower

00:39:34 ◼   ► because it's a cheaper computer with a slower processor.

00:39:38 ◼   ► And the throttling is really not even the issue there.

00:39:40 ◼   ► The issue is it's a slower computer with a slower processor

00:39:43 ◼   ► 'cause it's not a Pro or a Max, it's just a base level.

00:39:47 ◼   ► So it is MacBook Air is honestly,

00:39:51 ◼   ► it's enough computer for, you know, 99.9% of people.

00:39:56 ◼   ► I think the reasons you don't get it are

00:39:58 ◼   ► you must have two external displays

00:40:00 ◼   ► in which case you gotta get a MacBook Pro,

00:40:02 ◼   ► sorry to those people.

00:40:04 ◼   ► If you really want the best quality display on the laptop,

00:40:08 ◼   ► That is a place where the MacBook Pros are far and away,

00:40:11 ◼   ► as we've said, above what the MacBook Air has.

00:40:14 ◼   ► You want that extra port?

00:40:17 ◼   ► There's only one extra port,

00:40:18 ◼   ► 'cause the Pros only have three ports in MagSafe,

00:40:20 ◼   ► and this has two ports in MagSafe,

00:40:22 ◼   ► so it's not even that much of a bonanza.

00:40:24 ◼   ► But the differences are pretty clear,

00:40:26 ◼   ► and if you took the MacBook Pro 13 out of the equation,

00:40:29 ◼   ► and the M1 MacBook Air out of the equation,

00:40:31 ◼   ► which you can't because of pricing,

00:40:33 ◼   ► but if you did, and you just had these three laptops,

00:40:35 ◼   ► they would make sense,

00:40:36 ◼   ► 'cause it's essentially the low end laptop,

00:40:38 ◼   ► which is pretty good.

00:40:40 ◼   ► And then the high end laptop, which comes in two sizes

00:40:42 ◼   ► and is way better in a bunch of ways.

00:40:44 ◼   ► And that's actually, it's like Apple is creeping

00:40:47 ◼   ► towards some simplicity in the MacBook line,

00:40:49 ◼   ► which is why I'm sure that something will come out

00:40:51 ◼   ► that'll totally wreck it.

00:40:52 ◼   ► But they're creeping in that direction

00:40:54 ◼   ► 'cause the Air makes sense as the little buddy

00:40:58 ◼   ► who's less capable and cheaper than those MacBook Pros.

00:41:02 ◼   ► - I think that there is a lot,

00:41:05 ◼   ► - There's obviously a lot of conversation around this,

00:41:07 ◼   ► as you mentioned, especially on YouTube.

00:41:10 ◼   ► This is not a professional computer, it's not that.

00:41:15 ◼   ► - It's not. - You know?

00:41:16 ◼   ► The fact that you can make it hot, okay, you can do that.

00:41:21 ◼   ► That's a thing. - Yes.

00:41:23 ◼   ► - But that's the vast majority of people

00:41:26 ◼   ► that buy this computer, they will mostly use it

00:41:29 ◼   ► for standard computer tasks.

00:41:32 ◼   ► - They're never gonna throttle it.

00:41:34 ◼   ► never, ever, ever, ever, ever gonna come close

00:41:37 ◼   ► to throttling it, right?

00:41:39 ◼   ► And like I said, throttling sounds terrifying.

00:41:41 ◼   ► It's not, it just means that it runs a little slower

00:41:43 ◼   ► until it cools down.

00:41:44 ◼   ► It just means your job runs slower,

00:41:47 ◼   ► but your job's already gonna be running so much faster

00:41:49 ◼   ► than it was on your previous computer

00:41:50 ◼   ► that you won't even notice or matter.

00:41:52 ◼   ► I think that this is also spillover

00:41:54 ◼   ► from that 13-inch MacBook Pro, where,

00:41:57 ◼   ► I mean, look, we've already beaten it to death,

00:42:01 ◼   ► so I won't go back into it.

00:42:02 ◼   ► But I think that in addition to the fact

00:42:03 ◼   ► that it's completely uninspired and I'm beating it a little bit completely

00:42:08 ◼   ► uninspired old design why does it even exist it's to hit a price point you like

00:42:13 ◼   ► nobody should buy it I think it's fair to say why is it called Pro if it

00:42:18 ◼   ► doesn't have a pro chip it doesn't support more external monitors and it

00:42:22 ◼   ► doesn't support the maximum you could get out of the m2 chip because it's

00:42:28 ◼   ► cooling system still isn't really good enough at high levels to keep it cool

00:42:33 ◼   ► enough to stop it from throttling even with the fan blowing. Like, I think those are all

00:42:37 ◼   ► fair questions. I think the fact that that computer shouldn't exist at all, it kind of

00:42:43 ◼   ► trumps the rest of them, but I think those are fair questions to ask. But this is a MacBook

00:42:47 ◼   ► Air. I think the honestly, I think the only fair question to ask about the MacBook Air

00:42:52 ◼   ► in this whole universe that we're talking about is it's 1199. And I have in the back

00:43:02 ◼   ► in my head just a little bit of a concern, right? Like, isn't this what Apple did before

00:43:08 ◼   ► with the MacBook, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro, where they tried to make a brand new

00:43:16 ◼   ► MacBook Air that people would buy, but because it was not $999, they didn't. They just kept

00:43:22 ◼   ► buying the $999 one. And I think that there's enough value in here that you should probably

00:43:26 ◼   ► get the M2 version, but keep in mind, like, you should probably upgrade the SSD because

00:43:32 ◼   ► it'll be a lot faster if you have a 512 SSD than the 256 because of a design decision

00:43:36 ◼   ► Apple made. And so the base model is not as great, even though we didn't get it. Strangely,

00:43:40 ◼   ► Apple's not giving this out to reviewers, so we haven't seen it, but that's going to

00:43:43 ◼   ► be the case, just as it was with the MacBook Pro. My concern about this product more is

00:43:48 ◼   ► how long is that M1 MacBook Air going to hang around? Because this is a great product, but

00:43:52 ◼   ► this product needs to go to $999. It really does.

00:43:55 ◼   ► gotta happen within two years I feel like. Inflation is an issue and all that

00:43:59 ◼   ► but my point is is you can't make this product this products not gonna be the

00:44:05 ◼   ► number one selling Mac laptop if it's $200 more than the product that's

00:44:12 ◼   ► perfectly good that everybody loves so that's my big concern is more not with

00:44:16 ◼   ► the product but with the fact that Apple is letting it hang above the old product

00:44:21 ◼   ► because it has some vibes of the 12-inch MacBook

00:44:24 ◼   ► and that 13-inch MacBook Pro that were the retina ones,

00:44:28 ◼   ► so you shouldn't buy the MacBook Air,

00:44:29 ◼   ► and everybody just kept buying the MacBook Air,

00:44:31 ◼   ► non-retina for $999 because they liked it.

00:44:34 ◼   ► So at some point, Apple's going to --

00:44:36 ◼   ► Hopefully this product -- I guess what I'm saying is,

00:44:38 ◼   ► hopefully this product is engineered

00:44:40 ◼   ► in terms of profit margin and parts and all of that

00:44:43 ◼   ► to push down the line and kick the M1 Air out at some point,

00:44:48 ◼   ► because it does need to do that.

00:44:50 ◼   ► - Maybe this was just a really bad time

00:44:52 ◼   ► to launch a new laptop.

00:44:53 ◼   ► - Oh, undoubtedly.

00:44:54 ◼   ► This is a terrible time to launch a new laptop.

00:44:57 ◼   ► And the other thing is, this is a unique time

00:45:01 ◼   ► where the Apple Silicon transition is so dramatic

00:45:04 ◼   ► that if you come from an Intel to an M1 Air,

00:45:09 ◼   ► which is a year and a half old product,

00:45:11 ◼   ► it's still 10 times faster, right?

00:45:13 ◼   ► Like you're not taking a step backward

00:45:16 ◼   ► by going to an M1 Air,

00:45:17 ◼   ► which is why I still think they're gonna sell

00:45:19 ◼   ► a lot of M1 ears because they're cheaper and you don't, it's still a huge upgrade from

00:45:25 ◼   ► Intel to Apple Silicon. So this is a unique time for Apple to even offer, continue offering

00:45:30 ◼   ► an old model because the old model's value as an upgrade is still enormous.

00:45:36 ◼   ► - All right, so I wanted to ask you, do you think that this job does a, this machine does

00:45:43 ◼   ► a good job of replacing the previous MacBook Air, but I want to actually ask you that question

00:45:47 ◼   ► slightly differently because I think you've answered yes to that, but what I want to now

00:45:51 ◼   ► ask you is, someone comes to you and they say, "Jason, I want a Mac. What do I get?"

00:45:59 ◼   ► I have to update my, you know, what laptop do I buy my kid for college story. And I mean,

00:46:07 ◼   ► I don't have an easy answer. I would say, and you can see this in my review sort of

00:46:11 ◼   ► at the end, I have a section that's sort of like struggling with this issue. The M1 Air

00:46:14 ◼   ► is great. And I don't know what your financial circumstances are. I don't know what your budget

00:46:21 ◼   ► is. The M2 Air is really nice. Like, if you can afford to buy an M2 Air instead of an M1 Air,

00:46:27 ◼   ► I think you should, right? But the M1 Air is a couple hundred bucks cheaper,

00:46:35 ◼   ► and yeah, the screen isn't as good, and it doesn't have MagSafe.

00:46:42 ◼   ► So if you're really like stretching to get a new laptop for your kid or something, and you're like,

00:46:49 ◼   ► $11.99, or maybe if I upgrade it, it's $13.99, is really too rich for my blood. You're not going to

00:47:00 ◼   ► go wrong getting a refurb M1 Air if you want to, right? Save even more money. And of course,

00:47:05 ◼   ► we should say if it's your kid in school, you can buy it for $100 less at the education store.

00:47:10 ◼   ► So you can get a really great deal for an M1 Air and it will be a spectacularly good computer.

00:47:16 ◼   ► I will say, think about who you're buying it for. I bought my son a MacBook Pro before this

00:47:21 ◼   ► thing came out. I bought him a 14-inch MacBook Pro, base model basically. And one of my reasons

00:47:25 ◼   ► for doing that is his computer died. And I thought, well, I could get him an M1 Air. And then I thought,

00:47:29 ◼   ► he destroys power cords. He destroys power cords. He torques the edges of the power cords,

00:47:37 ◼   ► and I have to replace his USB-C power cords all the time.

00:47:41 ◼   ► And like, yes, should I teach him better cord etiquette?

00:47:43 ◼   ► Of course I could.

00:47:44 ◼   ► He's a teenager, he's not listening.

00:47:46 ◼   ► And I thought to myself,

00:47:48 ◼   ► MagSafe has a substantial value for that person.

00:47:52 ◼   ► Because if he tries to put that level of torque on MagSafe,

00:47:56 ◼   ► it's just gonna pop off

00:47:57 ◼   ► and he's not gonna destroy the cord probably.

00:47:59 ◼   ► - He'll learn better cord etiquette

00:48:01 ◼   ► 'cause his laptop will never be charged.

00:48:03 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:48:04 ◼   ► He'll have to baby that MagSafe to keep it on there.

00:48:06 ◼   ► So I think it comes down to it.

00:48:08 ◼   ► So I've got my personal reasons

00:48:10 ◼   ► for thinking MagSafe was a priority.

00:48:12 ◼   ► And yes, today I would probably just get him a MacBook Air,

00:48:14 ◼   ► but his computer died his middle of his senior year.

00:48:17 ◼   ► And I got him the MacBook Pro and it's like,

00:48:20 ◼   ► I'm doing a nice thing for my kid

00:48:21 ◼   ► who's graduating and going off to college.

00:48:24 ◼   ► But that's what I would say is you've gotta balance

00:48:29 ◼   ► the new features in the M2 Air,

00:48:32 ◼   ► which the M2 processor is one of them,

00:48:34 ◼   ► but like the design and the MagSafe and the bigger screen

00:48:38 ◼   ► is really, and then sort of niceness of all of that,

00:48:41 ◼   ► that's really what you're paying for there.

00:48:43 ◼   ► And it's a little bit faster.

00:48:45 ◼   ► And everybody's gonna have to balance those two things.

00:48:48 ◼   ► I'm glad the M1 Air is still out there.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Like we said a moment ago,

00:48:52 ◼   ► because this is a unique time where, you know,

00:48:55 ◼   ► if you're sitting, most people buying these computers

00:48:58 ◼   ► are coming from an Intel laptop.

00:49:00 ◼   ► Like the M1 Air is still an enormous leap forward.

00:49:03 ◼   ► It's still, even though it's two years old,

00:49:05 ◼   ► it's an enormous leap forward.

00:49:07 ◼   ► So there's no shame in buying an M1 Air.

00:49:10 ◼   ► And if your priorities don't include spending more money

00:49:15 ◼   ► for a new design and MagSafe and a little bit bigger screen,

00:49:20 ◼   ► if you're like, yeah, it doesn't matter to me,

00:49:21 ◼   ► save your money.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Or use that money to buy a little more storage

00:49:26 ◼   ► or a little more RAM instead,

00:49:27 ◼   ► and on the M1, the M1 Air is gonna be great.

00:49:31 ◼   ► So that's the, I think that's the M2 Air's biggest competition, is literally it's the

00:49:34 ◼   ► M1 Air, because it's still so great.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm, so basically my plan is to use this over the next couple of weeks as my daily

00:49:44 ◼   ► machine.

00:49:45 ◼   ► Alright.

00:49:46 ◼   ► So in two weeks time or so, I will talk about what it's been like for me to swap out the

00:49:52 ◼   ► MacBook Air, the MacBook Air from my MacBook Pro.

00:49:56 ◼   ► So I'm going to use it plugged into my studio display, it's going to be the laptop I take

00:50:00 ◼   ► to and from the studio every single day and I'm gonna use it as my main computer and see

00:50:06 ◼   ► how far it can get me.

00:50:09 ◼   ► Because also this is actually me working out if this is what I want to do anyway.

00:50:15 ◼   ► Like I've thought about what it would be to have a MacBook Air as my main computer and

00:50:19 ◼   ► then my MacBook Pro as my actual always permanently plugged into the podcasting setup.

00:50:26 ◼   ► Because that machine is so powerful.

00:50:29 ◼   ► And sometimes when I do things on my M1 iMac, I'm like, "Oh man, this MacBook Pro is so

00:50:35 ◼   ► much faster."

00:50:36 ◼   ► Like for all of the processing of audio and stuff.

00:50:39 ◼   ► So that might be where I end up going, but I'm pleased to have this computer for a couple

00:50:43 ◼   ► of weeks so I can try and work that out.

00:50:45 ◼   ► So I'll report back on that.

00:50:48 ◼   ► The yellow iMac, by the way, because Zach is already feeling bad about it, the yellow

00:50:52 ◼   ► iMac is going to become my home computer.

00:50:54 ◼   ► So like a permanent computer at home, nice and on display, so don't feel too bad for

00:50:59 ◼   ► it.

00:51:00 ◼   ► It will be having a new lease of life at home eventually.

00:51:05 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Ladder.

00:51:08 ◼   ► There are always those tasks that you put off and put off because they're not nice to

00:51:12 ◼   ► think about or you don't want to have to deal with the hassle of them, but getting things

00:51:15 ◼   ► in order feels great, so you should.

00:51:18 ◼   ► On that note, it makes sense why people get life insurance, especially term coverage which

00:51:23 ◼   ► is surprisingly affordable, why not pay a bit each month to protect your loved ones?

00:51:27 ◼   ► If you're asking yourself this question, choose Ladder, and it's so simple to do, so you don't

00:51:31 ◼   ► have to keep putting it off.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Ladder is 100% digital.

00:51:35 ◼   ► There are no doctors, no needles, no paperwork, when you apply for $3 million in coverage

00:51:41 ◼   ► or less.

00:51:42 ◼   ► Just answer a few questions about your health in an application.

00:51:45 ◼   ► You need just a few minutes, and a phone or a laptop to apply.

00:51:48 ◼   ► And Ladder's smart algorithms work in real time, so you'll find out instantly if you're

00:51:52 ◼   ► approved. There's no hidden fees, you can cancel at any time and you get a full refund

00:51:56 ◼   ► if you change your mind in the first 30 days.

00:51:59 ◼   ► Ladder policies are issued by insurers of long proven histories of paying claims. They're

00:52:04 ◼   ► rated A and A+ by AM Best. Customers rate them 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot and

00:52:10 ◼   ► they made Forbes best life insurance of 2021 list. Since life insurance costs more as you

00:52:15 ◼   ► age, now's the time to cross it off your list. Don't let it be that thing you keep

00:52:19 ◼   ► putting off. Go to ladderlife.com/upgrade today to see if you're instantly approved.

00:52:25 ◼   ► That's L A D D E R life.com/upgrade. One last time ladderlife.com/upgrade. Our thanks to

00:52:33 ◼   ► Ladder for the support of this show and Relay FM.

00:52:37 ◼   ► So it is the summer of fun. Summer of fun. Summer of fun. So we're going to draft again.

00:52:42 ◼   ► We are. In honor of World Emoji Day, which was yesterday. Yesterday. Congratulations

00:52:47 ◼   ► to World Emoji Day for being itself.

00:52:49 ◼   ► - Okay, to the day itself?

00:52:51 ◼   ► - Well, Jeremy Burge moved on.

00:52:53 ◼   ► So I was gonna say congratulations to Jeremy.

00:52:55 ◼   ► - No, congratulations to Jeremy,

00:52:57 ◼   ► who did not have to go on "Immediate Blitz" yesterday,

00:53:00 ◼   ► and instead just got to hang out and drink fruity drinks at,

00:53:04 ◼   ► right, didn't he have like a frozen alcoholic something?

00:53:06 ◼   ► - Something like that, yeah.

00:53:07 ◼   ► - It looked great.

00:53:08 ◼   ► So Jeremy was living large basically,

00:53:11 ◼   ► and not being on CNN, talking about emoji,

00:53:13 ◼   ► wearing a emoji shirt.

00:53:15 ◼   ► So good, congratulations to Jeremy.

00:53:17 ◼   ► - I saw Jeremy just a few days ago

00:53:19 ◼   ► and we were talking about this

00:53:22 ◼   ► and he did seem pretty excited about not--

00:53:25 ◼   ► - He got a reprieve.

00:53:27 ◼   ► You don't have to do anything for emoji day this year.

00:53:30 ◼   ► - 'Cause he retired.

00:53:32 ◼   ► - He did.

00:53:33 ◼   ► - Jeremy canceled emoji.

00:53:33 ◼   ► - Good for him.

00:53:34 ◼   ► - It's the end of emoji now.

00:53:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, he doesn't use them anymore.

00:53:36 ◼   ► - No. - It's not true.

00:53:37 ◼   ► - He loses them a lot.

00:53:39 ◼   ► Whenever I message with Jeremy,

00:53:40 ◼   ► I always feel like, I always add a lot of emoji anyway,

00:53:43 ◼   ► but I always feel like I have to put one in

00:53:44 ◼   ► and I bet so many people do that to him in his life

00:53:46 ◼   ► and he probably doesn't need it.

00:53:49 ◼   ► - He's living in a bubble, he thinks that emoji

00:53:50 ◼   ► are far more popular than they actually are.

00:53:52 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:53:53 ◼   ► - So Jason said to me, "Let's do an emoji draft."

00:53:57 ◼   ► And I was like, "I can't think about my favorite emoji."

00:53:59 ◼   ► But then you upped the stakes, which I enjoy.

00:54:01 ◼   ► - So what we're gonna do is, well, I thought emoji draft,

00:54:04 ◼   ► it's gonna end up being really boring

00:54:06 ◼   ► 'cause we're gonna draft like the same ones

00:54:07 ◼   ► that we always draft.

00:54:08 ◼   ► I wanna put a little, I wanna do a spread of emoji here.

00:54:13 ◼   ► So we're gonna alternate.

00:54:14 ◼   ► We can pick from any emoji on the board.

00:54:17 ◼   ► However, instead of it being,

00:54:19 ◼   ► 'cause then it's like, oh, well, you get a smiley

00:54:21 ◼   ► and then I get what's left,

00:54:22 ◼   ► and then you get animals in nature

00:54:24 ◼   ► and then I get what's left, right?

00:54:25 ◼   ► So here's what we're gonna do.

00:54:27 ◼   ► We can pick, but we have to pick one

00:54:30 ◼   ► from all of the keyboard categories,

00:54:35 ◼   ► except for flags, 'cause flags are boring.

00:54:38 ◼   ► So smileys and people, animals in nature, food and drink,

00:54:40 ◼   ► activity, travel and places, objects and symbols.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Seven categories, we're gonna make seven emoji picks each.

00:54:47 ◼   ► We don't have to do them in any particular order.

00:54:48 ◼   ► So if you wanna leap in for an activity, do it.

00:54:52 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:54:53 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, no, we're not doing them in order

00:54:55 ◼   ► because you need to prioritize.

00:54:57 ◼   ► 'Cause otherwise I'm getting the second pick

00:54:58 ◼   ► in every single category.

00:54:59 ◼   ► So you can choose in any order

00:55:01 ◼   ► and then I will choose one from anywhere.

00:55:04 ◼   ► You just can't choose more than one in a particular category.

00:55:07 ◼   ► - All right, I'm gonna pick my favorite emoji then,

00:55:09 ◼   ► even though I know you won't pick it anyway,

00:55:11 ◼   ► but I'm gonna pick it.

00:55:13 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:55:14 ◼   ► - It's in the symbols category.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - All right.

00:55:17 ◼   ► - It is called heart decoration.

00:55:19 ◼   ► That is the name of my favorite.

00:55:22 ◼   ► - Okay, and what does it look like?

00:55:23 ◼   ► - It is a kind of pinky purple square

00:55:27 ◼   ► with a white heart in the middle.

00:55:29 ◼   ► - All right.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Heart decoration. - So I've gone through today

00:55:33 ◼   ► and I've gone to Emojipedia and got all the official names

00:55:36 ◼   ► of my emojis that I'm picking.

00:55:37 ◼   ► - Oh wow, look at you.

00:55:39 ◼   ► Everyone has a heart that they like, right?

00:55:41 ◼   ► You know, like you're a blue heart person.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Maybe I spoke that way.

00:55:44 ◼   ► I know Steven's an orange heart person

00:55:46 ◼   ► and I wanted to be different.

00:55:48 ◼   ► And so I went with this very strange heart,

00:55:52 ◼   ► which is just, it's a white heart in a box.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - Why are you putting a heart in a box, Myke?

00:55:58 ◼   ► Why are you doing it?

00:55:59 ◼   ► - That's me.

00:56:00 ◼   ► I put hearts in boxes and give them to people.

00:56:02 ◼   ► I am a creep.

00:56:03 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:56:05 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:56:06 ◼   ► That's terrible.

00:56:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:09 ◼   ► - Oh, okay, what am I gonna choose here?

00:56:11 ◼   ► Yeah, you have given it away.

00:56:13 ◼   ► I am going to choose, let's find him here.

00:56:20 ◼   ► In "Smileys and People."

00:56:26 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:56:27 ◼   ► - Oh, there's so many to choose from here too.

00:56:31 ◼   ► Oh my God, I use so many of these.

00:56:36 ◼   ► In smileys and people, I am going to choose man shrugging.

00:56:41 ◼   ► - Really?

00:56:43 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:56:44 ◼   ► - That's your favorite emoji

00:56:45 ◼   ► in the smileys and people category.

00:56:46 ◼   ► - You know, well, look, I use the joy emoji

00:56:51 ◼   ► and I use the wink emoji

00:56:53 ◼   ► and I use the upside down smiley face emoji

00:56:56 ◼   ► and they're all really great

00:56:57 ◼   ► and the head exploding emoji too.

00:57:00 ◼   ► But like I find myself using the shrug emoji a lot

00:57:05 ◼   ► because of the world and not understanding people

00:57:08 ◼   ► in the world.

00:57:09 ◼   ► So I'm gonna go with the guy shrugging.

00:57:12 ◼   ► - All right, I'm gonna go to activity next.

00:57:18 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:57:19 ◼   ► - Trophy.

00:57:20 ◼   ► - Trophy, is this various, why trophy?

00:57:26 ◼   ► Tell me why trophy.

00:57:27 ◼   ► - I like emoji that can be used in various ways, right?

00:57:32 ◼   ► And I feel like the trophy emoji can be used

00:57:35 ◼   ► to celebrate something for somebody.

00:57:38 ◼   ► You can give it as a compliment to someone.

00:57:40 ◼   ► You know, like if Adina says to me, "I washed the dishes,"

00:57:43 ◼   ► I could send her a trophy emoji.

00:57:45 ◼   ► It's like, you just won, you're a trophy winner now.

00:57:47 ◼   ► You just won an award for doing that.

00:57:49 ◼   ► So I like the trophy emoji a lot for that.

00:57:51 ◼   ► It's one of those ones where like,

00:57:53 ◼   ► it's very obvious what it means when you receive it.

00:57:56 ◼   ► And it's fun.

00:58:00 ◼   ► All right, that's great.

00:58:04 ◼   ► Oh, I am, yeah, this is tricky.

00:58:06 ◼   ► There are so many things to pick for them here.

00:58:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna go with a classic inactivity.

00:58:15 ◼   ► You know it, they roll it out from the center field fence

00:58:19 ◼   ► at the beginning of the season, the baseball emoji.

00:58:21 ◼   ► - Ah, baseball emoji, I would never pick that one.

00:58:23 ◼   ► - Love to have a baseball, love to have a baseball.

00:58:25 ◼   ► - They have a lot of balls.

00:58:27 ◼   ► - There's a lot, well, yeah, there are.

00:58:30 ◼   ► I thought you were gonna pick what Steve just put in the Discord, which is the curling stone.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Curling emoji. Oh, curling is on the rise, but I think I have to shout it out for baseball here.

00:58:39 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:58:41 ◼   ► I mean, baseball really needs it, you know?

00:58:45 ◼   ► They need their emoji.

00:58:46 ◼   ► SF Symbols, I think they just added—

00:58:49 ◼   ► That was—I discovered while I was working on, like, some menu bar or something that SF Symbols doesn't have—

00:58:55 ◼   ► Oh no, it was—Overcast uses SF Symbols for the playlists, and there were no—

00:58:59 ◼   ► I was doing a sports playlist

00:59:01 ◼   ► and there's almost no sports iconography for SF Symbols.

00:59:04 ◼   ► But in the new version of SF Symbols that's coming out,

00:59:07 ◼   ► they added all the sports iconography, which is great.

00:59:09 ◼   ► - I'm gonna go food and drink now.

00:59:13 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:59:14 ◼   ► - And I'm gonna pick,

00:59:15 ◼   ► this is like a similar usage to trophy for me,

00:59:17 ◼   ► which is bottle with popping cork,

00:59:21 ◼   ► is the champagne emoji.

00:59:22 ◼   ► Because again, it's like,

00:59:24 ◼   ► that's a great way to celebrate something.

00:59:26 ◼   ► You know, somebody tells you they got some big news,

00:59:28 ◼   ► good news they did something awesome you send them back a champagne emoji you know with some

00:59:33 ◼   ► confetti on the iMessage you could do that you know like the little awesome some fireworks or

00:59:38 ◼   ► something it's a good one it's a good one i love it that's a good one um i

00:59:45 ◼   ► i'm gonna stay there in food drink okay can you guess what i'm gonna what i'm gonna choose here

00:59:55 ◼   ► Yes, it's the other one that I put in here, which is the pizza emoji.

00:59:59 ◼   ► You got it. It's pizza. I love the pizza emoji.

01:00:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I picked two.

01:00:04 ◼   ► You put a little pineapple next to it, but I can only pick one. I'm gonna pick the pizza emoji.

01:00:09 ◼   ► Just in case you sniped any of mine. I made two in my little shortlist here.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Ah, I see. I see.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Pizza was my other one.

01:00:15 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:16 ◼   ► I'm gonna go to Smiley's and People.

01:00:19 ◼   ► All right.

01:00:21 ◼   ► and I'm gonna go with smiling face with hearts.

01:00:24 ◼   ► So it's a little smiling face with the hearts around it.

01:00:27 ◼   ► I think of this as just the love emoji.

01:00:29 ◼   ► That's how I think of this one.

01:00:31 ◼   ► And so that's a big thanks.

01:00:33 ◼   ► - I knew you would pick this one.

01:00:34 ◼   ► I know you love it and it's a great emoji, right?

01:00:36 ◼   ► 'Cause it's basically the,

01:00:38 ◼   ► I appreciate the love that is either being,

01:00:40 ◼   ► that's being sent to me or that I am sending to you.

01:00:44 ◼   ► It's really good.

01:00:46 ◼   ► - I like it a lot.

01:00:47 ◼   ► It's a good one.

01:00:47 ◼   ► - I use this in a lot of places where people use hearts,

01:00:51 ◼   ► I think, like I could do one of the heart emojis.

01:00:54 ◼   ► Like I do this a lot.

01:00:55 ◼   ► Like for me, the heart emoji that I use,

01:00:58 ◼   ► like the heart decoration, I use that as kind of like,

01:01:01 ◼   ► a like, you know?

01:01:02 ◼   ► That's how I think of that one.

01:01:04 ◼   ► But this one is like, I appreciate you.

01:01:06 ◼   ► - That's nice.

01:01:08 ◼   ► I am going to stay in animals and nature.

01:01:17 ◼   ► - You stay in it.

01:01:19 ◼   ► This is the first pick in Animals in Nature.

01:01:20 ◼   ► - Oh, sorry.

01:01:22 ◼   ► Oh, I'm looking at Animals in Nature.

01:01:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:25 ◼   ► And I'm going with monkey face.

01:01:27 ◼   ► - Oh, just general monkey face?

01:01:29 ◼   ► I'm gonna pick mine real quick,

01:01:30 ◼   ► which is see no evil monkey.

01:01:32 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah.

01:01:34 ◼   ► - Now, I will say that since I added the hiding,

01:01:39 ◼   ► there's the emoji now where you've got the hands

01:01:41 ◼   ► over the eyes with the peeking through.

01:01:43 ◼   ► I use this less, but I still love this emoji.

01:01:47 ◼   ► The monkey ones are great.

01:01:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm a big fan.

01:01:50 ◼   ► There's a monkey emoji,

01:01:52 ◼   ► which is like a more of an animal style emoji

01:01:55 ◼   ► where you see the monkey in the tail and all of that.

01:01:57 ◼   ► This monkey has quite a story, right?

01:01:59 ◼   ► This monkey is looking at you and then it sees no evil

01:02:01 ◼   ► and hears no evil and speaks no evil.

01:02:02 ◼   ► But also then we get the like the full body shot

01:02:05 ◼   ► of the monkey.

01:02:06 ◼   ► But I like the monkey face.

01:02:07 ◼   ► - I don't like the full body shot of the monkey.

01:02:10 ◼   ► - No, I don't either.

01:02:11 ◼   ► - I don't know why they chose the cartoon monkey face

01:02:15 ◼   ► for that one.

01:02:16 ◼   ► Well, I think they think, "Look, we already did a monkey, so it's that monkey."

01:02:20 ◼   ► But they have other ones. Like, I think, is it zebra or horse where they have a cartoon head, and then a regular one?

01:02:26 ◼   ► Like, it looks more like...

01:02:29 ◼   ► You were gonna say human, right?

01:02:31 ◼   ► I was gonna say human, yeah.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Darn it.

01:02:33 ◼   ► It's still fine.

01:02:34 ◼   ► Whose turn is it?

01:02:38 ◼   ► Uh, it is my turn, because we doubled up on monkeys there.

01:02:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Oh, travel in places.

01:02:44 ◼   ► This is where I can choose from various trams.

01:02:47 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:02:48 ◼   ► - Or I can do objects, which is very special.

01:02:53 ◼   ► I had to decide whether I'm going to pick some objects

01:02:55 ◼   ► that are ironic.

01:02:59 ◼   ► 'Cause I use a lot of objects ironically.

01:03:03 ◼   ► - Sure.

01:03:04 ◼   ► - Like my favorite bad emoji is the,

01:03:11 ◼   ► Isn't there like a, there's like a pen with a key

01:03:16 ◼   ► or pen with a lock, it's pen with a lock,

01:03:18 ◼   ► which is like means like cryptographically signed.

01:03:21 ◼   ► And I think that is one of the dumbest emojis.

01:03:23 ◼   ► I know why it's there, but it's really dumb.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Boy, the choices here.

01:03:32 ◼   ► I am going to choose Bridget Knight.

01:03:37 ◼   ► - I originally heard that as somebody

01:03:40 ◼   ► called "Bridgett Night."

01:03:41 ◼   ► - "Bridgett Night," I am going to choose "Bridgett Night,"

01:03:43 ◼   ► yes.

01:03:44 ◼   ► - The "Bridgett Night" emoji.

01:03:45 ◼   ► 'Cause it's the Golden Gate, right?

01:03:47 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's the Golden Gate Bridge, yeah.

01:03:49 ◼   ► In most representations, it's the Golden Gate Bridge,

01:03:52 ◼   ► and I live there, so.

01:03:53 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:03:55 ◼   ► Shout out to "Bridgett Night" wherever she is.

01:04:00 ◼   ► - I'm gonna stick with traveling places

01:04:03 ◼   ► and choose "Airplane Departure."

01:04:05 ◼   ► - Oh, "Airplane Departure," "Airplane Taking Off."

01:04:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:04:10 ◼   ► 'Cause to me that means I'm going somewhere, you know?

01:04:13 ◼   ► I set that in Slack as if when I'm traveling

01:04:16 ◼   ► that becomes my little away emoji icon or whatever it is.

01:04:20 ◼   ► And that means Myke's on the road, you know?

01:04:24 ◼   ► Which I appreciate.

01:04:26 ◼   ► - That's pretty good.

01:04:28 ◼   ► While I stall to pick an object,

01:04:32 ◼   ► my next pick is going to be Blue Heart from Symbols.

01:04:35 ◼   ► My go-to heart is the Blue Heart.

01:04:38 ◼   ► I think I've described this,

01:04:39 ◼   ► that now there are lots of colors of heart, which is great,

01:04:41 ◼   ► but there was a time when the red heart was there

01:04:44 ◼   ► and you're like, hmm, I don't know,

01:04:46 ◼   ► red heart has some extra meaning to it that I don't,

01:04:49 ◼   ► I don't wanna do that.

01:04:51 ◼   ► So blue heart is my trademark heart and I love it.

01:04:54 ◼   ► We're down to objects now.

01:04:57 ◼   ► It's the object emoji draft from here on out.

01:04:59 ◼   ► - This is, this one's difficult for me

01:05:04 ◼   ► because there is an emoji that I have

01:05:07 ◼   ► my personal favorite in this category but there's an emoji in the objects category that

01:05:13 ◼   ► if I don't pick it I'm not gonna hear the end of it and people are gonna stop saying

01:05:18 ◼   ► it so I'm no...

01:05:19 ◼   ► Well you could leave that for another podcast and pick a different one here.

01:05:23 ◼   ► No, no I'm gonna have to pick it here I'm never gonna hear the end of it.

01:05:26 ◼   ► In the objects category I will pick the microbe microbe emoji.

01:05:32 ◼   ► Also known as the weird fish.

01:05:33 ◼   ► a weird fish. In the non-Jeremy era, there is no reference to weird fish on the Emojipedia

01:05:40 ◼   ► page, although I think that also happened during the Jeremy era.

01:05:43 ◼   ► Oh, maybe it was during the buyout era, the corporate buyout era.

01:05:47 ◼   ► We gotta clean this up, we can't say weird fish on the – you know, I actually think

01:05:51 ◼   ► it happened during COVID, because this became the COVID emoji, so I think you had to not

01:05:57 ◼   ► call it weird fish anymore, probably for the best.

01:05:59 ◼   ► That's a shame.

01:06:00 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:06:01 ◼   ► Wow.

01:06:02 ◼   ► I don't even know here.

01:06:04 ◼   ► It is really funny to me that both, but like Federico has a full color version of his tattoo

01:06:09 ◼   ► on him, you know?

01:06:10 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

01:06:11 ◼   ► Like Steven did an interpretation, I'll say, of a tattoo.

01:06:16 ◼   ► Federico went full ball.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Straight on.

01:06:20 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:06:21 ◼   ► I'm gonna finish with an emoji that I use all the time because it's a shortcut in Slack,

01:06:25 ◼   ► which I'm in all the time.

01:06:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:27 ◼   ► and slack is it's technically party popper,

01:06:30 ◼   ► but the shortcut in slack is tada.

01:06:31 ◼   ► - Tada.

01:06:32 ◼   ► - And I use it all the time whenever somebody

01:06:34 ◼   ► is celebrating something or sometimes ironically.

01:06:37 ◼   ► And it gets a lot of use and it's pretty nice, right?

01:06:42 ◼   ► There are some other celebratory emoji,

01:06:44 ◼   ► but that's the one that I tend to go with.

01:06:45 ◼   ► There's the one where there's the kind of cups

01:06:48 ◼   ► that open and drop confetti out,

01:06:50 ◼   ► but I don't want that one.

01:06:51 ◼   ► I like the one where it's almost like a megaphone

01:06:54 ◼   ► is shooting out confetti.

01:06:56 ◼   ► That's the one I like.

01:06:57 ◼   ► So I'm gonna put that in there.

01:06:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:01 ◼   ► - I see one in our Discord, which, you know the Oh No guy?

01:07:05 ◼   ► - Uh huh. - Oh No.

01:07:06 ◼   ► Where that's coming out of a tada.

01:07:09 ◼   ► - Out of a tada, oh yeah, that's pretty good.

01:07:11 ◼   ► - Which is really good.

01:07:12 ◼   ► - I, and that, so that's our little run through emojis

01:07:16 ◼   ► for World Emoji Day.

01:07:17 ◼   ► I will say, now I'll tell a little story,

01:07:18 ◼   ► which is I had an idea, because in many of the slacks

01:07:22 ◼   ► that I'm in and some Discords,

01:07:24 ◼   ► There are two custom emoji that we use all the time.

01:07:27 ◼   ► One is a picture of Tony Sindelar, our friend,

01:07:31 ◼   ► who did the GMing, our role-playing game member special

01:07:35 ◼   ► last couple of years.

01:07:36 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:07:37 ◼   ► - And a long, long, long, long time ago,

01:07:41 ◼   ► Tony would always audibly say, when you made a reference,

01:07:45 ◼   ► he would say, "Reference acknowledged,"

01:07:47 ◼   ► which I always thought was very, you know,

01:07:48 ◼   ► it's very funny 'cause it's like, you know,

01:07:49 ◼   ► you're fishing for somebody to acknowledge your reference

01:07:51 ◼   ► and he just goes out and says it in a kind of a passive

01:07:56 ◼   ► aggressive way. It's great.

01:07:57 ◼   ► - Yeah. If you've heard people on podcasts say reference

01:07:59 ◼   ► acknowledged, that is a meme that came from Tony.

01:08:02 ◼   ► - It's basically from Tony.

01:08:03 ◼   ► So there's a picture, Tony's icon was this picture of Tony

01:08:06 ◼   ► taken by Dan Morin ages ago, ages ago.

01:08:11 ◼   ► And we made that the reference acknowledge emoji.

01:08:13 ◼   ► And that just sort of spread so that like in other chats,

01:08:17 ◼   ► other places where people don't even know Tony,

01:08:18 ◼   ► they're like, why is this the reference acknowledge emoji?

01:08:20 ◼   ► I said, well, it's Tony Sendler.

01:08:22 ◼   ► So I had this thought,

01:08:24 ◼   ► and then we also have a Skeletor emoji,

01:08:26 ◼   ► which is based on art that somebody else did,

01:08:27 ◼   ► and we paid him a royalty for the t-shirts

01:08:29 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:08:30 ◼   ► And I thought, you know what?

01:08:32 ◼   ► I could commission those as emoji.

01:08:34 ◼   ► And I thought, well, who does that?

01:08:36 ◼   ► And I went to Jeremy Burge and I said, who's your artist?

01:08:40 ◼   ► Do you have an artist you could recommend for Emojipedia

01:08:43 ◼   ► that I could use to do some custom emoji work of my own,

01:08:48 ◼   ► just for fun?

01:08:49 ◼   ► And he got me in touch with an artist

01:08:53 ◼   ► who does a lot of the emoji work for Emojipedia.

01:08:57 ◼   ► And I got, I commissioned custom reference,

01:09:01 ◼   ► acknowledge and Skeletor emoji.

01:09:03 ◼   ► And so the Skeletor emoji is just a,

01:09:05 ◼   ► in the style of Apple's faces, except it's Skeletor.

01:09:09 ◼   ► And the reference acknowledge emoji is Tony Sindelar,

01:09:14 ◼   ► a cartoon version of Tony Sindelar pointing his finger

01:09:17 ◼   ► as if to say reference acknowledged.

01:09:20 ◼   ► - Where are these?

01:09:21 ◼   ► - They are, let me see if I can find them here.

01:09:25 ◼   ► - Do you have them?

01:09:26 ◼   ► - They're on the incomparable Slack,

01:09:27 ◼   ► but I can, I'm gonna post them in the discord too.

01:09:30 ◼   ► I wasn't planning on talking about it.

01:09:31 ◼   ► So now I've got to go to the incomparable, there they are.

01:09:33 ◼   ► - Oh, I've seen the Tony one.

01:09:36 ◼   ► I've seen the Tony one.

01:09:38 ◼   ► I didn't know that was me.

01:09:39 ◼   ► - That's the new reference acknowledged emoji.

01:09:42 ◼   ► So now you don't even need to know.

01:09:44 ◼   ► Now you could say, if this was a Unicode,

01:09:46 ◼   ► They would be like nerd, nerd,

01:09:49 ◼   ► acknowledging a reference, nerd pointing to the right.

01:09:52 ◼   ► Nerd with tie pointing to the right,

01:09:54 ◼   ► but it's a reference acknowledge.

01:09:56 ◼   ► And yeah, Skeletor.

01:09:57 ◼   ► It's based on the, you know, it's like the skeleton from,

01:10:00 ◼   ► or the skull from the emoji set,

01:10:02 ◼   ► but with a hoodie and a little heart for,

01:10:06 ◼   ► upside down heart for a nose.

01:10:07 ◼   ► And it's a hooded skeleton emoji.

01:10:10 ◼   ► - Terrifying, but great.

01:10:11 ◼   ► - I love it.

01:10:12 ◼   ► - That's some emoji.

01:10:13 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph.

01:10:15 ◼   ► So you've just hired a great developer.

01:10:17 ◼   ► That's awesome, but now you have to get them onboarded.

01:10:19 ◼   ► If your company's growing, onboarding new developers

01:10:21 ◼   ► will be a common occurrence,

01:10:22 ◼   ► but it's also a big undertaking every time.

01:10:25 ◼   ► One of the biggest challenges for new hires

01:10:27 ◼   ► is to get up to speed with the project

01:10:28 ◼   ► that their new team is working on.

01:10:30 ◼   ► This can be tricky if the code bases

01:10:32 ◼   ► your developers are working in are already large.

01:10:34 ◼   ► So thankfully, Sourcegraph makes it easy to move fast

01:10:37 ◼   ► even in those big code bases.

01:10:39 ◼   ► Developers know that knowledge is most useful

01:10:41 ◼   ► when it is findable.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Centralization is helpful,

01:10:44 ◼   ► But given the fact that most companies store knowledge

01:10:46 ◼   ► in multiple locations, how do you make knowledge accessible

01:10:49 ◼   ► to those that need it?

01:10:51 ◼   ► As a code intelligence platform, Sourcegraph

01:10:53 ◼   ► gives developers what they need to drive their own learning

01:10:55 ◼   ► over time and in different situations.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Teams without Sourcegraph need to rely on asking colleagues

01:11:02 ◼   ► or reviewing out-date documentation, which

01:11:04 ◼   ► is cumbersome and time-consuming.

01:11:06 ◼   ► But with Sourcegraph, every developer

01:11:07 ◼   ► can search across millions of repositories

01:11:09 ◼   ► to find specific code, saving time for themselves

01:11:12 ◼   ► and everyone else.

01:11:13 ◼   ► when questions do come up, you know it's the big stuff that's worthy of the extra time.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Sourcegraph was created to make developers' lives easier, and today they work with leading companies

01:11:21 ◼   ► across every industry, including three out of the five top tech companies, plus PayPal, Uber, Plaid,

01:11:26 ◼   ► GE, Reddit, and Atlassian. Visit about.sourcegraph.com to learn more. That's about.sourcegraph.com

01:11:33 ◼   ► to find out more why some of the biggest tech companies in the world use Sourcegraph, and to

01:11:38 ◼   ► see what it can do for yours. Just click the link in the show notes, you can let them know that you

01:11:43 ◼   ► you heard about them from this show.

01:11:44 ◼   ► That is about.sourcegraph.com.

01:11:46 ◼   ► Our thanks to Sourcegraph for the support of this show

01:11:48 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

01:11:50 ◼   ► That's some #AskUpgradeQuestions for you, Jason Snell.

01:11:53 ◼   ► The first comes from Brant who asks,

01:11:55 ◼   ► "Which do you think will come first,

01:11:57 ◼   ► face ID on the Mac or touch ID in display of an iPhone?"

01:12:02 ◼   ► - Oh, wow.

01:12:06 ◼   ► That's a tough one 'cause I think both could happen

01:12:12 ◼   ► but also both could never happen.

01:12:14 ◼   ► I'm gonna say Touch ID in the iPhone display

01:12:21 ◼   ► only because I feel like Face ID on the Mac

01:12:23 ◼   ► obviously hasn't been a priority for Apple.

01:12:25 ◼   ► Like they could do something like what Microsoft does

01:12:27 ◼   ► with the Windows login feature

01:12:29 ◼   ► and they obviously have decided

01:12:30 ◼   ► that that's not good enough for them

01:12:31 ◼   ► and that if they're gonna do Face ID

01:12:33 ◼   ► they're gonna do it properly.

01:12:34 ◼   ► And those laptops are so space constrained,

01:12:38 ◼   ► they're so, to fit a sensor

01:12:40 ◼   ► in the thin laptop display shell is just,

01:12:43 ◼   ► it's asking a lot and they've all got Touch ID

01:12:47 ◼   ► and there's an external keyboard with Touch ID.

01:12:49 ◼   ► They just did their display

01:12:50 ◼   ► and it doesn't have Face ID in it.

01:12:52 ◼   ► Like, I feel like they were just redesigned to the MacBook Pro

01:12:56 ◼   ► like they've had ample opportunity to put Face ID

01:12:59 ◼   ► on the Mac and they haven't done it.

01:13:00 ◼   ► And so I'm gonna take that as evidence

01:13:01 ◼   ► that they don't think that they need to.

01:13:03 ◼   ► And instead say Touch ID on the display on the iPhone,

01:13:06 ◼   ► is it redundant?

01:13:07 ◼   ► Are they really proud of Face ID?

01:13:09 ◼   ► "Yes, are there situations where Touch ID

01:13:11 ◼   ► is better than Face ID?"

01:13:12 ◼   ► "Yes, will they get there at some point?"

01:13:16 ◼   ► "I think yes."

01:13:17 ◼   ► So I don't have proof that they dislike that idea

01:13:20 ◼   ► and they seem to dislike the Face ID on Mac ID.

01:13:23 ◼   ► So that's why I choose that.

01:13:25 ◼   ► What do you think, Myke?

01:13:27 ◼   ► - I have to think about this

01:13:28 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like Face ID on the Mac

01:13:33 ◼   ► would be easier to implement

01:13:36 ◼   ► than touch ID in display on the iPhone

01:13:40 ◼   ► in a way that is really good for Apple at least.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Like I know lots of companies, lots and lots of companies.

01:13:47 ◼   ► You know, I was thinking about this the other day.

01:13:48 ◼   ► Like I was thinking about the, you know,

01:13:50 ◼   ► like the rumor of the whole punch and pill thing

01:13:54 ◼   ► on the next iPhone, like instead of a notch.

01:13:57 ◼   ► And I was thinking like, you know,

01:14:00 ◼   ► I was thinking Samsung phone, sorry,

01:14:01 ◼   ► Android phones including Samsungs don't have this problem.

01:14:04 ◼   ► I was like, oh yeah, because nobody is lent into the face identification the way that

01:14:08 ◼   ► Apple has.

01:14:09 ◼   ► Like, a couple of device manufacturers tried it, but ultimately just, they just do like

01:14:14 ◼   ► a visual scan, it's not using like IR, like they just use like a facial recognition kind

01:14:20 ◼   ► of thing.

01:14:22 ◼   ► But they really have all just kind of stuck with touch ID outside of iPhone, right?

01:14:28 ◼   ► And so all of these devices, they don't have to worry about the notch or whatever, really.

01:14:33 ◼   ► They could do the hole punches because they really push on having some kind of fingerprint

01:14:38 ◼   ► scanning.

01:14:39 ◼   ► So I was thinking really Apple's kind of like, they're focused on this technology, they're

01:14:44 ◼   ► just going to keep doubling down on it.

01:14:45 ◼   ► And I really like it.

01:14:46 ◼   ► I actually in general prefer Face ID, especially since they added the Face ID with a mask on.

01:14:53 ◼   ► It's like again, has made me fall in love with Face ID all over again because I didn't

01:14:57 ◼   ► have that frustration.

01:14:59 ◼   ► Apple doesn't have anything that they make with the technology of in-screen touch ID.

01:15:06 ◼   ► And I don't know just like kind of like how they would make that work for themselves or

01:15:10 ◼   ► whatever, but face ID, they know how to do.

01:15:14 ◼   ► So like I kind of go back and forth on it.

01:15:18 ◼   ► I think I would say face ID on a Mac is more likely to come first in touch ID display on

01:15:23 ◼   ► an iPhone.

01:15:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's a tough question.

01:15:28 ◼   ► I could imagine them bringing it to the power button

01:15:31 ◼   ► of the iPhone faster, but that's not the question.

01:15:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

01:15:36 ◼   ► This is a, it's a tough one.

01:15:38 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't think I have a great expectation

01:15:40 ◼   ► for either of them anytime soon.

01:15:42 ◼   ► They could, like I said, both of them could happen,

01:15:46 ◼   ► but I don't think I would bet on either of them.

01:15:47 ◼   ► - I would say we're at least two years away

01:15:50 ◼   ► from Face ID on a Mac.

01:15:51 ◼   ► - I, yeah, I think it might be longer

01:15:56 ◼   ► unless there's a surprise

01:15:57 ◼   ► and they have a high-end, maybe a high-end display

01:16:00 ◼   ► that's rumored has a Face ID sensor in it.

01:16:03 ◼   ► I could see that, it's possible.

01:16:05 ◼   ► But again, it's gonna be so limited

01:16:07 ◼   ► because they're not gonna bring them to the laptops

01:16:09 ◼   ► for a while, I think, unless they,

01:16:11 ◼   ► like, I mean, I don't know, it's gonna be hard.

01:16:13 ◼   ► Unless there's something that we're not thinking of,

01:16:15 ◼   ► which it could be, like, what if they have,

01:16:17 ◼   ► they sneak a sensor into the bottom case of the laptop

01:16:20 ◼   ► that shoots up at your face and can be thicker

01:16:23 ◼   ► 'cause it's at the back of the keyboard or something.

01:16:26 ◼   ► Like maybe, maybe something like that.

01:16:28 ◼   ► But the displays are so thin that getting a super thin Face ID sensor up there is going

01:16:34 ◼   ► to be tricky.

01:16:35 ◼   ► Not that they couldn't do it, but it's going to be hard.

01:16:37 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe it's not the laptops at first, right?

01:16:41 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Something that's super weird to me, I don't know why this has happened.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Like I'd forgotten about this, but I saw it when the public beta came out, I saw it in

01:16:49 ◼   ► an MKBHD video.

01:16:51 ◼   ► That Face ID on the iPhone now works in landscape.

01:16:54 ◼   ► Oh, does it?

01:16:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I just tried it out to test it myself and it does.

01:17:00 ◼   ► I don't know why, why has it taken this time to do that?

01:17:05 ◼   ► It's very peculiar to me.

01:17:08 ◼   ► When the iPads have been doing it for years.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know, not a priority

01:17:13 ◼   ► or there was a particular software quirk that,

01:17:16 ◼   ► I mean, it's possible that they reorganized the iOS,

01:17:19 ◼   ► the iPhone face ID stuff when they did the mass detection

01:17:24 ◼   ► and that, you know, right?

01:17:26 ◼   ► It's possible that they did the first implementation

01:17:28 ◼   ► on the iPhone, then did one for the iPad

01:17:30 ◼   ► that needed to be broader.

01:17:32 ◼   ► Didn't bother rolling that back to the iPhone

01:17:33 ◼   ► 'cause who cared?

01:17:34 ◼   ► And then the mask thing came up and they're like,

01:17:36 ◼   ► oh right, well we should probably take the code

01:17:38 ◼   ► from the iPad and then build on that

01:17:39 ◼   ► so that they stay kind of in sync a little bit.

01:17:42 ◼   ► So it could just be that simple,

01:17:45 ◼   ► but that's just a, I'm just guessing,

01:17:47 ◼   ► I'm spitballing with that one.

01:17:49 ◼   ► - Eric wants to know,

01:17:50 ◼   ► can continuity camera auto detect an iPhone

01:17:54 ◼   ► that's other than my primary iPhone.

01:17:56 ◼   ► So for example, I could leave a spare older phone

01:18:00 ◼   ► connected permanently to my display,

01:18:03 ◼   ► like I do with Camo.

01:18:05 ◼   ► So can it detect more than one phone basically?

01:18:08 ◼   ► - I believe so.

01:18:11 ◼   ► I think any device that's close to your computer

01:18:16 ◼   ► that is logged in with any iPhone,

01:18:19 ◼   ► it's running iOS 16 and is logged in with your Apple ID

01:18:22 ◼   ► is available as a camera.

01:18:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know if I've had two running in proximity

01:18:28 ◼   ► for me to test that.

01:18:32 ◼   ► I will test that at some point,

01:18:34 ◼   ► but I've definitely used a camera that's not my phone,

01:18:39 ◼   ► but another one that's logged in and that has worked.

01:18:42 ◼   ► So I think it's just a continuity feature.

01:18:44 ◼   ► If you had another phone,

01:18:46 ◼   ► keep in mind there's some compatibility issues, right?

01:18:47 ◼   ► It can't be an old iPhone.

01:18:49 ◼   ► It's gotta be, for some of the features,

01:18:51 ◼   ► it's like iPhone 11 and later.

01:18:53 ◼   ► For some of them, it's like 10 R and later.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Like there's some compatibility issues

01:18:57 ◼   ► with continuity camera on the iPhone.

01:18:59 ◼   ► But if you do have a capable one

01:19:01 ◼   ► that's just hanging out by your desk being used as a camera,

01:19:04 ◼   ► sure, you should be able to do that no problem.

01:19:06 ◼   ► - David asks, "Now that the M2 has finally arrived,

01:19:11 ◼   ► how long do you think we'll need to wait to see M2 chips

01:19:15 ◼   ► in any of the other five products

01:19:17 ◼   ► that Apple currently ships with the M1?"

01:19:22 ◼   ► [sighs]

01:19:23 ◼   ► So I will just note, Mark Gurman said over the weekend

01:19:27 ◼   ► that he expects M2 Pro and Macs chips in the,

01:19:31 ◼   ► to start appearing in MacBook Pros sometime

01:19:34 ◼   ► between the fall of 2022 and the spring of 2023.

01:19:37 ◼   ► - So what I want to say is in less than a year,

01:19:40 ◼   ► they'll all just be updated to M2.

01:19:42 ◼   ► However, Mark Gurman suggests that they're not going to

01:19:45 ◼   ► bother updating a bunch of them to M2, like the iMac.

01:19:48 ◼   ► I don't get it.

01:19:50 ◼   ► Like, I don't get it.

01:19:51 ◼   ► I don't get why they wouldn't update to the M2.

01:19:55 ◼   ► It surprises me that they don't have this thing set up

01:19:59 ◼   ► so that they can just flip over to the M2

01:20:02 ◼   ► on these systems one at a time as the M1.

01:20:05 ◼   ► And maybe it's an issue of like the M1

01:20:07 ◼   ► becomes cheaper to produce.

01:20:08 ◼   ► And it's still, as we've talked about earlier,

01:20:11 ◼   ► such a leap from Intel that you can get away

01:20:14 ◼   ► with keeping the M1s around for quite a while.

01:20:16 ◼   ► And it's still a big update from any previous Mac.

01:20:19 ◼   ► But I know that Apple didn't use to do this,

01:20:23 ◼   ► you know, quite as often with these updates,

01:20:25 ◼   ► but like they got the M2 now.

01:20:28 ◼   ► You would think that they would be motivated

01:20:30 ◼   ► to just roll that M2 out into all those other systems

01:20:34 ◼   ► and upgrade them.

01:20:35 ◼   ► But, you know, maybe the price is such a consideration

01:20:38 ◼   ► at this point that it's just easier to leave them there.

01:20:40 ◼   ► So I think according to Mark Gurman, David,

01:20:44 ◼   ► we'll have to wait forever

01:20:45 ◼   ► because some of those products

01:20:46 ◼   ► are not ever gonna get an M2.

01:20:48 ◼   ► they're gonna go to M3 instead,

01:20:50 ◼   ► and they're just gonna skip M2.

01:20:52 ◼   ► I think that's weird,

01:20:53 ◼   ► but that's what Mark Gurman sort of thinks

01:20:55 ◼   ► is gonna happen.

01:20:56 ◼   ► - I reckon if they do it more, it'll take like 18 months.

01:20:59 ◼   ► I reckon 18 months is gonna be the kind of...

01:21:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I mean, like again,

01:21:03 ◼   ► Mark Gurman just came out and said

01:21:05 ◼   ► the next iMac will be an M3.

01:21:07 ◼   ► So what is that about, right?

01:21:09 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:21:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:21:11 ◼   ► I think some of them will get M2,

01:21:12 ◼   ► but I suspect maybe that they're gonna take them along

01:21:15 ◼   ► as needed.

01:21:17 ◼   ► So like the Mac mini is rumored to get an update,

01:21:20 ◼   ► but the Mac mini rumor is that they're gonna get an M2

01:21:23 ◼   ► in there, but also have an M2 Pro option, right?

01:21:26 ◼   ► So that makes it a more of an upgrade

01:21:29 ◼   ► than just from M1 to M2.

01:21:31 ◼   ► So maybe the 13 inch MacBook Pro will be an outlier again,

01:21:35 ◼   ► in that it's identical to its predecessor,

01:21:37 ◼   ► except for they swapped in the new chip.

01:21:39 ◼   ► But I kind of assumed that they would do that

01:21:41 ◼   ► to most models and just update them in place.

01:21:46 ◼   ► Todd asks, "If you record uncompressed audio,

01:21:51 ◼   ► do you use WAV, so W-A-V, or A-I-F-F,

01:21:55 ◼   ► which is Apple something something lossless?"

01:21:58 ◼   ► What is that? Apple something file format?

01:22:01 ◼   ► - Audio Interchange File Format, actually,

01:22:02 ◼   ► is I think what it is.

01:22:03 ◼   ► By the way, WAV and A-I-F-F are actually identical.

01:22:05 ◼   ► They're just bit stream audio, they're uncompressed audio.

01:22:08 ◼   ► The difference is the headers.

01:22:10 ◼   ► So they are no different.

01:22:12 ◼   ► And it is, yeah,

01:22:15 ◼   ► there after the headers that tell you what's in it,

01:22:18 ◼   ► it's basically the same file.

01:22:20 ◼   ► I mostly use WAV because one of the editors that I use

01:22:24 ◼   ► uses a Mac and one of the editors I use uses a PC.

01:22:27 ◼   ► And so I just find it easier to do WAV

01:22:30 ◼   ► because nobody looks at a WAV and goes, huh?

01:22:32 ◼   ► And AIFF, sometimes people go, huh?

01:22:35 ◼   ► Also AIFF, you have this question of is it .AIFF or .AIFF

01:22:39 ◼   ► and like WAV is just WAV and everybody knows it

01:22:42 ◼   ► and it's fine.

01:22:43 ◼   ► So I save everything as a WAV.

01:22:45 ◼   ► I do wave too because for the same reason it's just the most... I mean I started recording

01:22:53 ◼   ► uncompressed because old Upgradients will remember when Myke used to use a trash can

01:22:59 ◼   ► Mac Pro and it would sometimes completely lock up during recording and the only way

01:23:07 ◼   ► for me to be able to use my computer again was to power it down forcibly.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Right, good times. Which if I was recording in an mp3 or something like

01:23:20 ◼   ► that would I would lose the audio because the way that an mp3 kind of

01:23:24 ◼   ► works is like it the file is completed when you stop recording and a

01:23:30 ◼   ► non like securely completed I'm simplifying this massively but if

01:23:35 ◼   ► If an MP3 file cuts off before you press stop on the recorder

01:23:40 ◼   ► and it saves it, it's mostly unusable.

01:23:43 ◼   ► Like, most of the time, you've lost the audio.

01:23:46 ◼   ► So I started recording in Wave because it's uncompressed.

01:23:52 ◼   ► Whatever's being written to the file

01:23:54 ◼   ► is just where the file will end if power cut, for example.

01:23:58 ◼   ► Or there's an error.

01:24:00 ◼   ► -So, yeah, when we were using Call Recorder,

01:24:03 ◼   ► using QuickTime, it needed to finalize the recording

01:24:06 ◼   ► where it was a complete loss.

01:24:08 ◼   ► And it's like unacceptable.

01:24:10 ◼   ► So record to wave.

01:24:12 ◼   ► - We did it with wave.

01:24:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, so if you pull the plug, it just,

01:24:16 ◼   ► yeah, the recording stopped obviously

01:24:18 ◼   ► 'cause you pulled the plug on your computer,

01:24:20 ◼   ► but every single sample is in the file.

01:24:23 ◼   ► So yeah, the second part of this question

01:24:27 ◼   ► was compressed lossless format.

01:24:29 ◼   ► In the end, disk space isn't an issue for us,

01:24:32 ◼   ► File transfer time isn't really an issue for us.

01:24:34 ◼   ► These are big files, but they're not enormous

01:24:36 ◼   ► and our internet's fast enough.

01:24:38 ◼   ► And personally, same thing, right?

01:24:40 ◼   ► Which is I'd rather keep it as simple as possible

01:24:42 ◼   ► of reading what's the waveform off the microphone

01:24:46 ◼   ► or the interface and putting it on the disc

01:24:48 ◼   ► as quickly as possible.

01:24:49 ◼   ► A compressed format, all it gets me is more CPU use

01:24:52 ◼   ► of my computer, more chances for it to do something bad.

01:24:55 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:24:56 ◼   ► And I don't, and yeah, it's a smaller file,

01:24:59 ◼   ► but I don't need it to be a smaller file.

01:25:00 ◼   ► If I wanted the archive to be smaller,

01:25:02 ◼   ► I will compress it into a flack or something.

01:25:04 ◼   ► And I have a script that Marco Arment actually wrote

01:25:07 ◼   ► and gave me a billion years ago

01:25:09 ◼   ► that will automatically sort of flack compress everything

01:25:13 ◼   ► or decompress it in a logic project.

01:25:16 ◼   ► And I use that with a Hazel script

01:25:19 ◼   ► that looks at all my old logic projects

01:25:20 ◼   ► and just flattens all that stuff down into flack

01:25:23 ◼   ► where it's gonna save a lot of space.

01:25:25 ◼   ► But when I'm working on it,

01:25:26 ◼   ► I don't wanna deal with any of that.

01:25:28 ◼   ► So it's just straight up wave.

01:25:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I record everything in Wave and basically just have a Hazel script, Hazel from Noodle

01:25:35 ◼   ► Soft is such a really great application that just, it just bins the old files from that

01:25:40 ◼   ► audio, the file where I have all my audio HIDAT recordings saved.

01:25:44 ◼   ► Because they're about like between 300 and 600 megabytes, the files that, those WAV files.

01:25:49 ◼   ► So I don't want them building up forever, you know, like just the calls or whatever,

01:25:52 ◼   ► like the actual recordings of the calls before I do any processing to the audio.

01:25:56 ◼   ► I just have it go in and just clear those out for me.

01:25:58 ◼   ► - Last question today comes from Brant who asks,

01:26:03 ◼   ► if you could choose any color you want

01:26:06 ◼   ► for the new MacBook Air that doesn't exist currently,

01:26:09 ◼   ► which one would you want the most?

01:26:11 ◼   ► - I was thinking about this.

01:26:15 ◼   ► I am caught between saying, I'd probably say blue.

01:26:20 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:26:21 ◼   ► - But orange would be just fine with me.

01:26:23 ◼   ► I would choose blue or orange.

01:26:24 ◼   ► That's sort of my, that's where I am in my life right now

01:26:26 ◼   ► is can I get in blue or orange?

01:26:28 ◼   ► well then that's what I would like it in.

01:26:30 ◼   ► - Orange would be what I would want.

01:26:32 ◼   ► That would be the color I would want.

01:26:34 ◼   ► Be orange.

01:26:34 ◼   ► Although I would be tempted to get it in yellow

01:26:36 ◼   ► to match my iMac.

01:26:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, sure.

01:26:39 ◼   ► - So either that's either orange or yellow.

01:26:41 ◼   ► - Gold laptop.

01:26:42 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

01:26:43 ◼   ► - I'm just trying to imagine that thing in blue

01:26:44 ◼   ► and it would look so good.

01:26:46 ◼   ► But I agree with the theory espoused

01:26:49 ◼   ► on several podcasts last week that they got time.

01:26:52 ◼   ► Gruber wrote that in his review too.

01:26:54 ◼   ► It's like, this is a brand new design.

01:26:56 ◼   ► They got time to do iterations where they add different colors

01:27:01 ◼   ► because this design will be with us probably for many years to come.

01:27:05 ◼   ► - Yep. All right, if you would like to send in a question

01:27:06 ◼   ► for us to answer on the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade

01:27:10 ◼   ► or use question mark #AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members Discord.

01:27:14 ◼   ► I would like to thank Sourcegraph, Ladder, and Mode

01:27:17 ◼   ► for their support of this episode, and of course, thanks to you,

01:27:20 ◼   ► our wonderful listeners and people who support us

01:27:23 ◼   ► who have an Upgrade Plus membership.

01:27:25 ◼   ► Thanks to Jason as always for joining me.

01:27:28 ◼   ► You'll find Jason's work as always at sixcolors.com.

01:27:31 ◼   ► He is @jasonowen.

01:27:32 ◼   ► Twitter J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:27:34 ◼   ► Jason hosts many shows over at The Incomparable

01:27:36 ◼   ► and at Relay FM as well.

01:27:39 ◼   ► So do I.

01:27:39 ◼   ► You can find shows that we're both on

01:27:41 ◼   ► along with many other wonderfully talented hosts

01:27:43 ◼   ► at relay.fm/shows.

01:27:46 ◼   ► We'll be back next week with a prerecorded episode.

01:27:50 ◼   ► Just so if there's any news that happens.

01:27:52 ◼   ► - Some are fun.

01:27:53 ◼   ► - We're some are fun in it

01:27:54 ◼   ► - And we're pre-recording an episode.

01:27:56 ◼   ► - With special guests.

01:27:57 ◼   ► - With special guests, but special guests you know,

01:28:01 ◼   ► we're not pre-announcing some like,

01:28:04 ◼   ► we're not, we haven't got like the Johnny Ive special

01:28:06 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:28:07 ◼   ► - We're diving back in classic upgrade fashion,

01:28:09 ◼   ► we're diving back into the verticals,

01:28:10 ◼   ► we're gonna have three experts on who you know,

01:28:12 ◼   ► who y'all know, and we're gonna talk about three different

01:28:16 ◼   ► sort of vertical categories for segments with each of them

01:28:19 ◼   ► as part of the Summer of Fun, it'll be fun.

01:28:20 ◼   ► - So that will be next week's episode.

01:28:22 ◼   ► So if there's any big news, it will come the week after.

01:28:25 ◼   ► So that's what we're gonna have to do.

01:28:27 ◼   ► Okay? Okay.

01:28:28 ◼   ► Deal, everyone?

01:28:29 ◼   ► Deal.

01:28:30 ◼   ► - Meet back here again next week.

01:28:31 ◼   ► You'll be here. You'll hear us.

01:28:33 ◼   ► We won't actually be here.

01:28:34 ◼   ► And then we'll meet back here again in two weeks

01:28:36 ◼   ► and we will be here.

01:28:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:39 ◼   ► - Until next time.

01:28:39 ◼   ► - That's how time works.

01:28:40 ◼   ► - Say goodbye to Jason Snow.

01:28:41 ◼   ► - Goodbye, Myke Hurley.

01:28:42 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:28:45 ◼   ► (dramatic music)

01:28:47 ◼   ► you