0:00:00[Music]
0:00:12From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 413.
0:00:17It is still the Summer of Fun!
0:00:20And this episode is brought to you by FitBard, ZokDok, and Texas Panda.
0:00:23My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell.
0:00:26Hi, Jason Snell.
0:00:27Hi, Myke Hurley.
0:00:28technically this may be the first episode that's actually the Summer of Fun that's recording
0:00:31in the summer. I guess it was the first day of summer when we recorded last week. Anyway,
0:00:35summer is here.
0:00:36Summer of Fun, we all know when it starts.
0:00:37And the Summer of Fun is here.
0:00:38Although I guess technically last week's episode should have been the beginning of the Summer
0:00:43of Fun.
0:00:44Right, but we moved it up because we were outside in nice weather the week before, so
0:00:49we'll give you more fun.
0:00:50Having some real fun.
0:00:51I have a #snowtalk question for you, comes from Brance. Brance wants to know, "Jason,
0:00:55what's your favorite Pixar movie?"
0:00:57It is... I've been saying for a while now and I'm gonna stick with it, The Incredibles.
0:01:02I haven't watched them all lately to re-judge them, but The Incredibles is my favorite.
0:01:06I like the music, I like the art direction. It's just a fun movie.
0:01:12Like, the whole thing about it. I just love it. And I love a lot of PEC stars, but that's my favorite.
0:01:16Voice acting's great, but yeah, the overall visual look of that movie
0:01:20ticks so many boxes for me. Yeah, that's up there. That's high for me.
0:01:26my only other one and I don't have an answer is such just one of the Toy Stories I'm sure
0:01:31would rank very very highly for me. Sure. But I'm not sure which one I'd need to watch them all again
0:01:35but I like all of them a lot. I've only seen Toy Story 4 once but was blown away by Toy Story 4.
0:01:42Like it outpaced my expectation for it so that was a good movie. If you would like to send in
0:01:49a snow talk question of your own to help open an episode of the show just send out a tweet with
0:01:53with the hashtag #snowtalk, use question mark #snowtalk in the Relay FM members Discord.
0:01:57Got some housekeeping Jason Snow.
0:02:00Okay.
0:02:01Upgradeyourwardrobe.com.
0:02:02Thank you to everybody who has so far purchased one of the Summer of Fun 2022 line of shirts
0:02:09that we got running right now.
0:02:11We have the brand new Summer of Fun 2022 shirt which is like beach vibes, iPhone in the sand,
0:02:19pineapples, upgrade logo is the sun.
0:02:22T-Shirt
0:02:40Thank you to everybody that has purchased so far and if you haven't, what's stopping
0:02:44you?
0:02:45Don't forget that you can always get longer ad free versions of this show.
0:02:51It's called Upgrade Plus.
0:02:52Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you can sign up.
0:02:55You become a RealAFM member, you get tons of bonus content, you get longer ad free episodes
0:03:01of Upgrade and help support the show.
0:03:03We have something new coming for RealAFM members.
0:03:06It's a show called Spotlight.
0:03:08is going to be hosted by Kathy Campbell and it's basically an AMA of hosts.
0:03:14So Jason is going to be the first guest, it's going to be coming I think later this month
0:03:18or the start of next month so kind of around the end of June or early July and if you are
0:03:23a Relay FM member you can ask questions for this AMA in the Discord, people have been
0:03:27doing that, it seems like we've got tons going right now and this is going to be a monthly
0:03:31show with a different Relay FM host every time and it's going to be hosted and put together
0:03:37by Kathy. So, that's a good new thing for Real AFM members, which you get access to
0:03:42by going to getupgradeplus.com.
0:03:43I know nothing about it other than that I was asked to appear, so we'll see how that
0:03:47goes.
0:03:47Yup. You don't need to do anything except, what is it, A-M-A-S, you need to just A the
0:03:53Qs. That's what you need to do.
0:03:55Okay, I'll get my A's in, P's and Q's in place and mine my A's.
0:04:00Yeah, well, you don't want to mine the answers, you need to give them, you know?
0:04:07Yeah, but the P's and Q's I will mine. The questions and the...
0:04:10Oh, the Q's and A's, they're going to fly free.
0:04:14The previously asked questions, I don't know.
0:04:17Okay, if you have money to spend on either of these things, either buying t-shirts with our logo on them,
0:04:25or getting bonus content, I would also like to recommend that you donate to an abortion
0:04:31fund. Go to abortionfunds.org. If you don't know what an abortion fund is, these organizations
0:04:37help people who cannot get the help that they need in their area with abortion and abortion-related
0:04:42healthcare with either resources or finances or advice, and can help them get the care
0:04:48that they need in their state, in the US or others. This is obviously more important now
0:04:53than it's ever been, I urge you to find out more about this stuff and donate, whether
0:04:58that's money or time. If you don't like that we're having to talk about this, I don't know
0:05:02what to tell you, right? We have to. And especially if you don't like me talking about it because
0:05:07of my accent. Again, this is the John Oliver problem, right? Like, I see it as the John
0:05:12Oliver all the time. It's like, well, okay, I know I don't live in America. I know I'm
0:05:17not American. However, the majority of you are, so here I am.
0:05:23I'll say it in an American accent, so this will be very helpful, abortionfunds.org.
0:05:28Thank you.
0:05:29See, American accent.
0:05:31Because hey, abortions are healthcare. This is not, and should not be a political issue.
0:05:36It is the right for everyone to have autonomy over their own bodies. It is a right. It should
0:05:40be, and I believe it to be a fundamental human right. Any less is wrong. If you are now opening
0:05:46Twitter or your email to try and disagree with me or tell me I shouldn't be talking
0:05:50about this on a tech podcast. Do us both a favor, close the app because you won't change
0:05:55your mind. This is our podcast. Oh, you added this line in here, didn't you?
0:05:58I did. This is our podcast and we say what we want. So if you're sending us a message
0:06:02to say we shouldn't talk about this on our podcast, guess what? We get to decide that.
0:06:07We decided to talk about it. That's it. And also I've been having this thing where
0:06:12people keep trying to tell me that how bad the abortion rights are in the UK
0:06:17they're not we have great abortion rights here in the UK and it's also not
0:06:23a political issue here so this this seems to be one of these like talking
0:06:28points you know like these like people what one person said a thing and there
0:06:31everyone says it so don't come at me with that effect as I said don't come
0:06:35with any of it just go to abortionfunds.org instead how about that back to
0:06:40our regularly scheduled programming, there are new betas.
0:06:45There are always new betas, aren't there?
0:06:47Yep, we got the beta 2.
0:06:49We were wondering if it was going to happen, right?
0:06:50We're talking about it when we were talking about Stage Manager last time.
0:06:54Yes, and it happened shortly thereafter.
0:06:58Not a lot of changes in Stage Manager, especially I think we anticipate more to come.
0:07:04They did add some keyboard shortcuts, which is one of those things that was very much
0:07:07a glaring deficiency in Beta 1 where you would, "How do I get these windows to go away or
0:07:13come back or go full screen?" There are some, like there's no Command+W kind of closed window
0:07:19thing which I really would like to see, but there are some new keyboard shortcuts in there.
0:07:23And obviously, people are talking about like, "Will Apple change the hardware compatibility?"
0:07:27which I'm not sure they're gonna seriously consider that despite the fact that people
0:07:32are talking about it, but it would not happen at this point, right? Because the way these
0:07:38betas work, I don't know if people are aware of this, but like, they lock the beta one
0:07:44quite a while before WWDC, and then they lock the beta two, that might even have been before
0:07:50WWDC, but certainly like, these things are done, there's a lag time, so they're working
0:07:56on it, but if you're expecting like, reactions, this is just like Safari last year, if you're
0:08:00expecting reactions to backlash, it takes a little while. There is some lag time in
0:08:05there.
0:08:06The usual, at least I think the more modern expectation, is the first public beta, which
0:08:13is usually around beta 3 time-ish, tends to be the first beta that has actually received
0:08:19post-WWDC feedback. That's what I keep, I see people say that and it makes sense to
0:08:27me.
0:08:28like they're doing something that requires time to implement. So if at Beta 3, they know
0:08:33about your feedback, it might take a couple more Betas to get the work done, right? Like,
0:08:40it's a long process. So far, it was changing all the way up to the end last year.
0:08:44All the way to the end. So what I would say for people who are very closely following Betas and
0:08:47wondering what it means in terms of how Apple's thinking, like just keep in your mind, it's way
0:08:52way more complicated and there's a lag and making changes is not easy. Even if they decide
0:08:58to make them, it will take time. The best you could hope for is some vague PR statement
0:09:03that says, "We'll continue working on this." I mean, I think that's what they did last
0:09:06year with Safari. That's actually a big disclosure for them that like, "No, it's not done. We're
0:09:11working on it." But they're not going to say, "Oh, we're trying some stuff and we're not
0:09:16sure how it'll..." They're not going to say anything like that. So just keep an eye on
0:09:19it and we will keep an eye on it. And before the show we were talking about like, you know,
0:09:25people like us, we do use these things and talk and write about them and we'll, at some
0:09:32expense to our lives because it breaks our devices, but we need to do it. So we'll keep
0:09:38an eye and we'll let you know how it's going this summer if you're not brave enough. If
0:09:42that devil on your shoulder has not whispered in your ear to install the beta, then we'll
0:09:47report about it instead.
0:09:48Speaking of which, Justin installed Beta 2.
0:09:52[ Laughs ]
0:09:53I haven't on my iPhone.
0:09:55So we were talking about this last week
0:09:57as part of Ask Upgrade.
0:09:58I encouraged Justin to install the beta on their iPhone,
0:10:01and they did. They did it.
0:10:02-I said, "Justin, don't do it."
0:10:04That was the title. -Mm-hmm.
0:10:05-Justin did it. -Great title.
0:10:07Did you see that tweet?
0:10:09I wish I could remember it exactly,
0:10:10but it was another person called Justin,
0:10:13and they said that they were thinking about a life decision.
0:10:17And then the episode popped up in there.
0:10:21- Well, in the end, yes.
0:10:23This is Justin who said,
0:10:24"I saw this while contemplating a serious life decision.
0:10:27Thank you for my help.
0:10:28I have made the difficult decision
0:10:29not to supersize my meal."
0:10:31- Oh, that was it, that was it.
0:10:33- So we're turning off,
0:10:34at least one Justin turned away from the dark side
0:10:37due to our intervention.
0:10:38- There you go.
0:10:39Just a little better for your body, you know?
0:10:41Less salt or whatever it was gonna be, more fries.
0:10:43- Whatever, yeah.
0:10:45- You know, I went to a McDonald's at the airport
0:10:48when we were in Dallas on our way home.
0:10:51The sizes are so peculiar to me.
0:10:53Like a small drink, it's like, it's huge.
0:10:56It's massive. - Yeah.
0:10:58Yeah, well, I mean, you're falling into
0:10:59a little bit of a European trap too,
0:11:01because, you know, it's the big US thing.
0:11:03And then there's the, well, we have that
0:11:06in movie theaters too here.
0:11:07It's that idea that everybody wants a medium.
0:11:10So you make the medium big and expensive.
0:11:12(laughs)
0:11:13And then people order the medium and they're like,
0:11:14this is the medium? Well yeah. They should just make everything Starbucks sizes, right?
0:11:22The grande, a venti, whatever it might be.
0:11:26Tall is small. There is a smaller one but it's not on the menu and I don't remember
0:11:30the name. I think it's called short, I think.
0:11:33That could be short and tall, grande and venti.
0:11:36Short is a Starbucks size?
0:11:37Yeah.
0:11:38Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:11:39- The secret size, the secret small size is small,
0:11:42or short, but it's also small.
0:11:45I have a friend who orders things in terms of
0:11:49like the smallest cup you have,
0:11:51or the biggest cup you have, like depending on mood.
0:11:55So this brings me to my question for you.
0:11:56This is my talk, which is not a segment
0:11:58that we normally do here,
0:11:59but since we mentioned Starbucks sizes,
0:12:03do you have a go-to Starbucks order?
0:12:04Do you go to Starbucks?
0:12:05And if you do, what's your go-to?
0:12:07- Yes and yes.
0:12:08So I go to Starbucks for kind of two reasons.
0:12:13It's convenience or like consistency.
0:12:19So if I'm somewhere new or I'm somewhere
0:12:23where I think the coffee isn't good,
0:12:25I wish I could remember who this quote was,
0:12:29but it's someone famous in the coffee world
0:12:31that says Starbucks is the best thing to ever happen
0:12:34to people that like coffee
0:12:36because you get a consistent cup of coffee always.
0:12:40But what I do is I treat Starbucks
0:12:43the way that I think of it to be,
0:12:46and I will tend to get some kind of flavored,
0:12:48like caramel flavored drink,
0:12:50whether it's, I will either get a caramel latte
0:12:54or a caramel frappuccino,
0:12:55depending on the temperature outside.
0:12:57I just, you know, I don't like the way their coffee tastes,
0:13:00so I like to just, rather than just put sugar in it,
0:13:03Let's put some caramel syrup in there and go wild, you know?
0:13:06- So the, and I don't drink coffee,
0:13:09but when I go to Starbucks,
0:13:10unless I'm staying somewhere that doesn't have tea
0:13:12or I haven't brought tea or I haven't been able to make tea,
0:13:14in which case I'll get tea with honey, ideally.
0:13:19But if it's just sort of like during the day,
0:13:21like I used to go write my column, my Mac World column,
0:13:23I would go on Tuesday afternoon to a local Starbucks
0:13:25and I would sit there and write my column.
0:13:26And it was like my little cafe writing thing.
0:13:29Always the same grande, hot chocolate, no whip,
0:13:32whipped cream, although sometimes I will take that off if I'm feeling special, but usually no whipped
0:13:37cream. I'll get no whipped cream on the frappuccinos. I don't like whipped cream in coffee drinks.
0:13:41Yeah, well, hot chocolate, I mean, it's just more—it's just plowing more into that thing.
0:13:47Anyway, but because I don't have—I don't—if I don't want tea and I don't drink coffee,
0:13:51they do make a actually really nice hot chocolate, and I've been to lots of coffee places that make a
0:13:55lousy hot chocolate, but the Starbucks one is really good. I also wanted to mention,
0:13:58you talked about consistency. That is the secret for a lot of chains, is people are like,
0:14:01like, well, you came all the way to Orange City
0:14:03and you just went to Starbucks.
0:14:04It's like, well, if you don't know
0:14:06where the good, fussy coffee chain is,
0:14:08or it's not conveniently located to you,
0:14:10especially if you're traveling a lot,
0:14:12there is something to be said for consistency.
0:14:14Even if it's not the best, you know
0:14:16it's going to basically taste the same no matter where you go.
0:14:18And this is an anecdote that I really
0:14:20like from a musician who I love, Bob Mould, who
0:14:24was in Husker Du back in the day and is a solo artist now.
0:14:27And I remember reading an interview with him,
0:14:29or maybe it was even in his memoir,
0:14:31where he talked about Subway and eating sandwiches at Subway.
0:14:35And he says, okay, Subway is not very rock and roll, right?
0:14:40He said, if you're in 40 different cities in the US
0:14:43on a tour and you're exhausted
0:14:46and you just need to eat something before you go to bed,
0:14:49the fact is I can order the same sandwich at Subway
0:14:53anywhere in the United States and it will always be the same.
0:14:58And it's one of those, are you giving up?
0:14:59Is it a give up?
0:15:00Yes, but there is sometimes something to be said for convenience. I'll do that on road trips where
0:15:05it's like, we don't go to a lot of chain restaurants at home, but on a road trip,
0:15:09it's nice to know what you're going to get. And there's a time to kind of experiment and like,
0:15:14oh, let's go to this roadside stand and see how it is. But like, if you're just trying to
0:15:18stop and get something and then get back on the road, there's something to be said for convenience.
0:15:23So I didn't know I'd be endorsing a Bob Mould subway strategy or that we would be talking
0:15:28talking about Starbucks, but that's the glory of mic talk. The Flying Dutchman of upgrade
0:15:32segments, it doesn't really exist, people doubt its existence, but then sometimes it
0:15:37just appears. It's like the connected quiz!
0:15:40It sure is. Well, way less frequent. Way, way less frequent.
0:15:45Yeah, that's true.
0:15:47This episode is brought to you by our friends over at TextExpander. When you work in a small
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0:17:49Big rumor roundup today.
0:17:52This is the time of year, Jason,
0:17:55when Mark Gurman is gonna wrap up a ton of hardware.
0:17:59So-- - Yeah, it's a lot of stuff
0:18:01we've heard before,
0:18:02but he sort of like put it in one place of,
0:18:05and I thought he hyped it up a little bit.
0:18:06He's like, "Oh, this is one of the most ambitious
0:18:08product slates that Apple's gonna release in some time."
0:18:12And I thought, did somebody at Apple tell you that?
0:18:14Because I mean, it's just a list of everything
0:18:18they're gonna release in the next year.
0:18:19I'm not sure how super ambitious it is.
0:18:21It's good.
0:18:22There's a lot of stuff.
0:18:23I did feel exhausted reading it
0:18:24'cause I imagined all the work that is gonna go into
0:18:27reviewing all this stuff.
0:18:29But yeah.
0:18:30Well the way I, because I came away from it feeling like, "Oh it's a lot of stuff."
0:18:33And I think the reason for it, and maybe what he's getting to, but as you say, probably
0:18:37is overhyping it.
0:18:39A lot of this is going to come this year, and one of the things that Apple's doing is
0:18:45lots of models of the same product.
0:18:48And so it's like, it feels like there are a lot of products, and maybe also some of
0:18:53these things would have been spread out a little earlier in the year, but like, you
0:18:57know, can't make anything.
0:18:59- Yeah, yeah, legacy nodes, et cetera.
0:19:03- So we're gonna go through these
0:19:04and we'll stop to talk about each product as we wish.
0:19:08So again, some of the stuff we knew,
0:19:10but it's good to get it recapped.
0:19:11And again, some stuff it's like,
0:19:13it's piecemeal across different people.
0:19:14And then when Mark Gumm and puts it in this thing,
0:19:16you're like, okay, he's done, he's reporting on it.
0:19:18So anyway, four iPhone 14 models coming this year.
0:19:22- Yeah, that's mostly what we knew.
0:19:25- Two pro models, they'll have the always on display.
0:19:28I'm already getting the feeling this is gonna be stage manager all over again, where it's
0:19:34gonna be like, well, why can't my OLED display do the always unlock screen on my iPhone 13
0:19:41or whatever?
0:19:42Well, if this feature only is on the iPhone 14 Pro, they even have to explain it in the
0:19:47context of their own brand new product announcements, right? And I'm confident they'll do it. Remember
0:19:52when the Apple Watch Series 5 came out and they did the always on display and everybody
0:19:56thought "wait you already had no LED display why can't you enable this across?" and they
0:20:00said "oh no this required a new display hardware that let us control the frame rate and the
0:20:06brightness in a very specific way and that's what unlocked this feature" and I'm sure that's
0:20:11what they'll say about the iPhone 14 Pro and the always-on display.
0:20:15I think it's gonna be easy to do it but like I know that there's gonna be they I want them
0:20:20to be specific about it as much as they can be I think I saw some people talking about
0:20:24the fact that the promotion display on the iPhone 13 Pro
0:20:28goes down to a minimum, I think of 10 Hertz,
0:20:32where the Apple watch is one.
0:20:35- Yeah.
0:20:36- So.
0:20:36- That may be their story is that we had to do a new screen
0:20:41or a new screen controller that allowed us
0:20:42to take the frame rate all the way down
0:20:44so that the battery life would still be acceptable.
0:20:46And that's why it's only in this one.
0:20:47But like if this last announcement
0:20:50has not taught Apple PR something,
0:20:53I would be surprised about. Be very clear about why and do it in a boastful way, right?
0:20:58Like that's when you're doing a product announcement, you should boast about look at this new thing
0:21:02we did that enables this great new feature.
0:21:04Give it a new name. You love to give screens names. Give it a new name.
0:21:07Oh man, it's the it's the what would it even be the hibernation retina display or something.
0:21:14I don't know.
0:21:15What is the current one called?
0:21:16Deep freeze retina display.
0:21:17- Apple.com/iphone.
0:21:19'Cause they have like liquid retina display
0:21:22and liquid retina display XDR,
0:21:25all that kind of stuff, right?
0:21:26So what do they call it right now?
0:21:28- It'll be a liquid retina display ZZZ
0:21:31'cause it goes to sleep.
0:21:33- Oh, well.
0:21:34(laughing)
0:21:36I really like that. - It's pronounced snore.
0:21:39- I really like that.
0:21:40Super retina XDR, super retina XDR.
0:21:44- Well, this will be ultra retina XDR M
0:21:47And the M stands for minimal lighting sometimes
0:21:50or something, I don't know.
0:21:52- Oh, as Zach has said, they also say with promotion
0:21:55at the end, Super Retina XDR display.
0:21:57- Okay, so this will be Super Retina XDR
0:21:59with promotion and smart sleep or whatever,
0:22:03eternal vigilance or whatever, yeah.
0:22:05- Always on Retina XDR display, which is not a great name,
0:22:09but they might go that way, right?
0:22:10'Cause they call the Apple Watch the always on display,
0:22:12so who knows?
0:22:13- Yeah, sure.
0:22:15That screen will also have thinner bezels,
0:22:17which is interesting.
0:22:18I can't imagine I'm gonna notice that, but hey ho.
0:22:21It will have an A16 chip, a 48 megapixel main camera.
0:22:25I'm very excited for that.
0:22:27I'm really intrigued.
0:22:28I'm really intrigued by that.
0:22:30- Apple improves its camera every year.
0:22:31It doesn't do a megapixel leap every year.
0:22:33That doesn't happen very often.
0:22:34- Been a long time since they've done a megapixel jump.
0:22:38I don't remember off the top of my head,
0:22:39but it's many years.
0:22:40- So I do that story now, apparently every year,
0:22:43which is what's new in the new iPhone
0:22:45based on the iPhone that you've currently got.
0:22:48And so I have to look at the charts
0:22:49and compare all the different versions of the iPhone
0:22:51and sort of tell this story about what's new.
0:22:54And that's one of the things that's jumped out at me
0:22:56in working on that story is the,
0:22:59sometimes they make a better camera with more,
0:23:03more pixels or more focus pixels,
0:23:08or there's a better processor or it's a larger sensor.
0:23:13but what they haven't done in a very long time is leave what 12 megapixels behind. So
0:23:20it's a big deal. I'm excited about that. Pill shaped face ID cut out. So removing the notch
0:23:28and a better front facing camera with a hole punch cut out. So there'll be a pill shape
0:23:34and then also a hole punch as well. Right. I've forgotten about this. So it'll be like
0:23:37- Dot dash or dash dot, morse code,
0:23:40you can decode which one that is.
0:23:42- Then the regular phones, way fewer improvements.
0:23:47They're gonna have the same processor as currently.
0:23:50You know, I don't think they're gonna get the camera.
0:23:52Obviously not gonna get the always on,
0:23:54and the notches I assume gonna be there as well.
0:23:57The biggest thing that's gonna happen in the regular phones
0:23:59is that the mini will go away and then a larger phone,
0:24:03which is a max sized phone,
0:24:06will accompany the regular iPhone 14.
0:24:09So it'll be iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Max.
0:24:11That's gonna be the story in that phone this year, I guess.
0:24:15- I had a thought about,
0:24:18as somebody who's got the 13 mini,
0:24:20if they replace the, if they don't do a 14 mini,
0:24:26but they don't change the processor,
0:24:27it's like as a 13 mini owner, I'll be like, okay,
0:24:32that's fine. - You get another year.
0:24:34- That's fine.
0:24:35And it did actually occur to me that if Apple is gonna do this kind of like lagging processor
0:24:40thing on the non-pro iPhone, that they could even do a cycle.
0:24:45Depending on the sales levels, they could even do a cycle where they do a mini one year
0:24:49and a max another year and they just go back and forth.
0:24:53And they keep the other one in the price list and they just kind of keep rotating through
0:24:57them because how new are they, really?
0:25:01I mean, they'll have some new features, but like, if the processor is not changing as
0:25:06much, maybe they will, maybe, I mean, I'm dreaming here, but like, I-
0:25:10- You've moved into the bargaining stage?
0:25:13- It's, yeah, no, I think I'm just still in denial.
0:25:17I'm still in denial, but it'll give me another year with the 13th.
0:25:19Although I have to admit the Pro model sounds so good that I'm curious about the 14 Pro,
0:25:29But I'm, you know, I'm team 13 mini.
0:25:33I hear it's not on a very high, high tier, but you know, that's for people who don't
0:25:37know what they're talking about.
0:25:38So yeah.
0:25:39- All people that do.
0:25:40- But probably not.
0:25:42- Apple watch, three watches.
0:25:44There'll be a series eight, which is gonna have the same system on a chip as the series
0:25:49seven, which means it has the same system on a chip as the series six.
0:25:54Mark Gomer thinks that there will be a new system on a chip
0:25:57for the next Apple Watch.
0:26:00- So I use my Apple Watch to do all sorts of things now,
0:26:04you know, and I'm out there doing wireless,
0:26:06streaming a podcast while doing fitness tracking
0:26:09and all those things.
0:26:10And I'll tell you, you know,
0:26:12I'm sure that a new version of that chip would be nice.
0:26:15I don't feel like the Apple Watch is slow.
0:26:19- No.
0:26:20- I feel like there's software stuff
0:26:22that I wish that it did that they need to work on.
0:26:24But like, if there was ever a product
0:26:26where they could take three cycles off
0:26:27of improving the processor at the center of it,
0:26:30it's probably the Apple Watch.
0:26:32- My expectation is they are,
0:26:35they now will update the Apple Watch
0:26:37when they have new capabilities that require a new chip.
0:26:41Like it's not a performance thing, I feel like,
0:26:43but it's like maybe there's new sensors
0:26:45maybe coming in the Series 9.
0:26:47And so they need a new chip for that,
0:26:49or they're gonna change something
0:26:51that would affect battery life or whatever.
0:26:53But like if they're not adding anything new,
0:26:55then why do they need to change the system?
0:26:58- I would imagine that there's some features
0:26:59that they really want to enable that they're not able to,
0:27:01because they really want that next chip to enable them.
0:27:04And I totally, I get it, I get it,
0:27:06but I'm not too fussed about chip changes.
0:27:10I'm more excited that we might finally get our,
0:27:12you know, Apple Watch Super Sport Ultra.
0:27:15- Rugged. - Rugged, yeah.
0:27:17- Yeah, I'm really intrigued about this.
0:27:18So Mark's still talking about rugged model, but that's it.
0:27:21There wasn't a lot of detail about the watches.
0:27:24There has been rumors still abound
0:27:27that there's going to be a design refresh, but nothing.
0:27:29Nothing here in this report.
0:27:31There will also be a new SE, same size, new chip.
0:27:34I really want to see the SE
0:27:36get an always-on display, personally.
0:27:38I don't know what it's going to take for them to do that.
0:27:40That needs to be a better value product
0:27:42than it is right now.
0:27:44M2 Max.
0:27:45So a Mac Mini is on the way with an M2 Pro option,
0:27:50which feels like a much needed place in the lineup, I think.
0:27:54M2 Pro and M2 Max MacBook Pros are coming, obviously,
0:28:00and M2 Ultra and M2 Extreme Mac Pro.
0:28:04I love that name so much, and I hope they won't,
0:28:07but I hope they like eighties brand it, you know?
0:28:09Like it's like extreme, it's kind of like spray painted.
0:28:11That's what I want to see, you know?
0:28:13I know they're not going to do it,
0:28:14but a boy can dream, you know?
0:28:16- Well, I think having, finally having a model
0:28:19that has an M2 with an M2 Pro, right?
0:28:21Which never really happened in the M1 generation.
0:28:23They were M1s or they were M1 Pro/Max.
0:28:27Those were your choices.
0:28:28So I like this.
0:28:30And then it's interesting
0:28:31'cause there's no Max Studio described here,
0:28:34but I like the idea in the long run
0:28:36of having kind of the Mac mini,
0:28:37which has the M2 and the M2 Pro,
0:28:39and then it's got the Max Studio
0:28:40that has the Max and the Ultra,
0:28:42so that you've got a real continuity of desktop Max,
0:28:45and then they need to do the same with iMacs,
0:28:47and then it all kind of makes sense.
0:28:49- Yep.
0:28:50- Speaking of iMacs,
0:28:52it seems like the next update might be the M3.
0:28:55- Yeah, there's some vagueness in there,
0:28:59but he seems to think that the iMac
0:29:01is not on the M2 priority list.
0:29:04I'm a little surprised by that.
0:29:05He did say that there is a plan to do a higher end iMac.
0:29:10And so I'm unclear in parsing his words.
0:29:14- It might be that that new iMac could be a bigger iMac
0:29:17it's an M3 enabled iMac coming at the end of 23 or halfway through 23.
0:29:23It's also possible, depending on how you read it, it's also possible that there might be an M2
0:29:28big iMac that's like an M2 Pro, but that the M1 iMac, the small iMac, might not get an update
0:29:37until M3. But we'll see. There's a lot of M's. And then in the M3 Mac timeframe, it would be
0:29:47be a update to the 13-inch MacBook Air, 15-inch MacBook Air, which we spoke about last time,
0:29:53I think will be a studio, and then also a 12-inch laptop which is in development. Doesn't
0:29:58know when that might happen, if it happened at all. When talking about the M2 chips, Mark
0:30:03mentioned that Apple's headset, he expects it to have an M2 chip in it, which is interesting.
0:30:09I had just assumed it would have a new chip. Right. Right? Like they do with some of the
0:30:14other stuff, I just figured that they would want to make something more custom.
0:30:20I don't know. Yeah, maybe, but I think that they've got, you know, they've got their mobile
0:30:24and their desktop essentially chips and they, you know, do they need to do another variation
0:30:29on it? And I guess this is the answer is they don't. I wonder if they looked at the A series
0:30:33and was like, that's not enough. We'll put M series in here. Remember, it's still pretty
0:30:38low powered chip. I just figured it would have been different,
0:30:40a chip that's got way more graphics and neural stuff than raw processing and has
0:30:46a lot of performance cores. That's kind of my imagination for a makeup of a chip
0:30:50like that but I mean hey it's a really powerful chip right? Yeah.
0:30:56Mark also mentioned 16 gigabytes of RAM which just feels funny and something
0:31:00that you put on your face. There's a lot of RAM to go on the face. It's a computer on your face
0:31:04that's what it is. New iPads confirming a base model iPad of USB-C 5G in an A14
0:31:11chip. iPad Pros coming this year with M2 chips and then a bigger display iPad
0:31:17Mark reckons between 14 to 15 inches. This feels like he doesn't really know
0:31:22anything about this one. Yeah or at least he knows sort of vague things but not a
0:31:27lot of confidence about it that there's a bigger iPad in the works and the
0:31:31details are unclear, which is interesting because there was that other report, which
0:31:35was maybe Ming-Chi Kuo who said that it was not a
0:31:38>> Ross Young.
0:31:39>> It was not.
0:31:40>> Ross Young.
0:31:41>> It was Ross Young because it was display related, wasn't it?
0:31:42That it was not going to be an OLED.
0:31:43It was going to be a different kind of display, which is what we made us say.
0:31:47Maybe it's an iPad studio instead of an iPad Pro because it's a different set of features.
0:31:52The base model getting USB-C too, that clears the USB-C out of the iPad.
0:31:55It's like all USB-C and no more lightning.
0:31:59And that's the direction they're going with everything, right?
0:32:01- Right, I guess the, does the mini still have lightning?
0:32:03- No, the mini's USB-C.
0:32:05- Mini's USB-C too, yeah.
0:32:06So they're just, they're clearing it out
0:32:08and they'll do the same with the iPhone next year probably.
0:32:11But- - I'll be so happy.
0:32:13- And then the other thing Mark said
0:32:14that I thought was funny is he said,
0:32:15there'll be more, the new pro models will have more iPads
0:32:19that support stage manager.
0:32:22Like basically for Apple to say,
0:32:24look at all these products we make
0:32:25that do support stage manager.
0:32:27- I also just like that in this article,
0:32:29because again, this is taken from Mark's newsletter.
0:32:32So it's more personalized really.
0:32:35And he's just in his site, he's like,
0:32:36"I don't like it, I don't like stage manager."
0:32:38And just a really funny aside to me,
0:32:40he's like, "No, I don't like it,
0:32:41"I don't think they did a good job."
0:32:42But anyway.
0:32:43- What's fascinating about Mark is that Mark
0:32:47has good sources and he does good reporting.
0:32:49And then in the newsletter especially,
0:32:50they want him to insert a little bit, or he wants to,
0:32:53insert a little bit more of his voice.
0:32:55So he has some opinions in there.
0:32:57And I don't entirely agree with his opinions,
0:33:00but his sources are impeccable.
0:33:01So, you know, just kind of, yeah, but it is funny.
0:33:04Well, he did that one a few weeks ago
0:33:06where he was sort of like really mad
0:33:07because some product he had didn't work.
0:33:11It was like, okay, I guess we're reading about this now, but-
0:33:14- Well, it's his newsletter, right?
0:33:16- Yeah.
0:33:17- This is the different part, I like it.
0:33:20New AirPods Pro, updated chips and stuff,
0:33:23support for lossless, well, Mark says high quality audio.
0:33:27I'm assuming this is lossless.
0:33:29New HomePod!
0:33:30Yeah, how about that?
0:33:33S8 chip.
0:33:34Now that is the chip that is in the watch?
0:33:41Oh, I don't even know.
0:33:44Because that...
0:33:45Hmm.
0:33:46Closer to the original in size and sound, with an updated display on the top, possibly support
0:33:57for multi-touch. All of that last part will seem very odd to me, but I'm into this. I
0:34:03want more than a Mini because I like my big HomePods. And so I'm happy that they are going
0:34:09back to not all Mini. And maybe this will be a better priced, more compelling product
0:34:16for more people than the original. Two thumbs up from me.
0:34:20Yeah. And I like the idea. So one of the things that I hate about the original HomePod is
0:34:25I hate the display because it's just for show.
0:34:29It does very little that's useful.
0:34:32It's just kind of there for show.
0:34:33And remember there were a lot of rumors
0:34:34that it would be an actual display
0:34:36and it ends up, it's just kind of like some lights.
0:34:38So I'm curious if they will try to do something
0:34:41that's a little bit more complex than that
0:34:43in terms of the display on top.
0:34:45And then different touch gestures.
0:34:48One of the big problems with the HomePod I found,
0:34:50especially because I have one of my HomePods
0:34:53is kind of high up is you can't do it by feel at all,
0:34:57because there are little spaces on the top of the HomePod
0:35:01to go louder and quieter, and you have to hit them.
0:35:05Otherwise it doesn't work.
0:35:06And if you can't see them and you can't feel them,
0:35:09you can't hit them.
0:35:10So a multi-touch or new set of touch gestures
0:35:14for a HomePod I think is good,
0:35:16'cause I would really like to be able to control a HomePod
0:35:19without having to hit a very precise thing
0:35:22on a device that I might not be able to see
0:35:24the control surface of.
0:35:25Like if you can imagine maybe pressing
0:35:27and winding clockwise or counterclockwise
0:35:29to adjust the volume or something like that,
0:35:31or swiping across to do next track or stuff like that,
0:35:35I would think that that would be a better HomePod interface.
0:35:39- And a new Apple TV, but don't get excited.
0:35:43- Yay.
0:35:44- It's gonna get a new chip and one more gigabyte RAM.
0:35:46Just like purely like just the usual,
0:35:49like we're doing things or games are doing things
0:35:52and they need a little bit more headway.
0:35:54- Yeah, we're running out of that old chip.
0:35:55So we're putting in this new chip that we're gonna,
0:35:58like again, this is Apple as a recycler.
0:36:00They've got products where they don't need
0:36:03to make a new thing for it.
0:36:05They just stick in the old thing.
0:36:06And as they're managing their inventory of those things,
0:36:11they look and say, okay,
0:36:12why don't we put the A14 in this now?
0:36:13Okay, let's do that.
0:36:14Yeah, let's do that.
0:36:15- That's a lot of stuff, man.
0:36:18I'm excited about a lot of this.
0:36:20There's a lot of things in here.
0:36:21- Yeah, all those Macs, right?
0:36:22All the Macs are really interesting.
0:36:24- That iPhone sounds really good.
0:36:27- If iPhone sounds really good and the new Macs,
0:36:29we've been talking for a while about how Apple Silicon
0:36:31could really like give Apple a chance
0:36:34to redefine the Mac line,
0:36:35'cause it was so defined based on Intel specs before.
0:36:38And they've started to do that,
0:36:39but we're just really at the start of that process now
0:36:41with the iMac and the larger MacBook Pros,
0:36:45and now the MacBook Air.
0:36:47but there's more to be done in terms of the chip rollouts
0:36:51and the designs of the system.
0:36:53So, could be a real interesting time for the Mac,
0:36:56maybe the iPad, and then definitely those new Pro iPhones
0:37:00are gonna be really interesting.
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0:39:20So there's a new Mac in town, the M2 MacBook Pro.
0:39:24- Yay!
0:39:27- You summed it up so beautifully.
0:39:28We called it out on Connected,
0:39:30called this a classic Jason Snell headline.
0:39:32The future wrapped in the past was the headline
0:39:35that you came up with.
0:39:36And I love it.
0:39:38I love it.
0:39:39Do you wanna,
0:39:40is there anything specific you wanted to talk about
0:39:42in regards to the M2 MacBook Pro?
0:39:44- I mean, what I said in the article
0:39:48is that there are three ways of looking at the MacBook Pro
0:39:50and they're all correct.
0:39:51One of them is, it's the debut of the M2
0:39:52and the M2 is really interesting
0:39:54'cause it's the first time Apple has done an update
0:39:58to its processors in the Mac.
0:39:59And while that seems a little esoteric,
0:40:00We have been, first question was,
0:40:02what are Apple processors gonna look like in the Mac?
0:40:05But the next question is, what happens after that?
0:40:07How do they then cycle through
0:40:09and do it again and do it again?
0:40:10And the M2 is sort of lifting the curtain on that.
0:40:13Second one is, why does this thing look like,
0:40:18not look like all of Apple's other current laptops?
0:40:20It is a refugee from the past, it looks very 2016.
0:40:24It hasn't gotten any of the updates
0:40:26and therefore it seems really like something
0:40:29from a bygone era.
0:40:30And then the third observation is out of context,
0:40:34without knowing what else is going on
0:40:35in Apple's product line, it's a thin, light,
0:40:39reasonably priced for Apple, powerful laptop.
0:40:43And so like out of context, it seems fine and normal,
0:40:48but you have to pretend that Apple hasn't pushed
0:40:51the other products, other laptops that it makes forward
0:40:55in order to think that way.
0:40:58And all of these things are true.
0:40:59Like again, if you get one of these and you use it,
0:41:02it's not bad, it's actually good.
0:41:05It's just not the state of the art from Apple anymore.
0:41:08It's this recycled kind of old enclosure
0:41:11and old technology with a new chip at its heart.
0:41:14So as a result, I think the chip is by far
0:41:16the most interesting thing about the product.
0:41:18And it's not, although, look,
0:41:21I don't wanna overstate the caveats
0:41:23because there are a few caveats.
0:41:25There are a few people for whom this product
0:41:28is one that makes sense, but I don't want to give that too much oxygen because the truth
0:41:34is it's almost nobody. This is a product that I would not personally recommend to anyone
0:41:40because there are better options. There are better options for the same price, the MacBook
0:41:45Air that comes out next month. There are better options in the MacBook Pro line, the ones
0:41:50that are more expensive and a whole generation better in terms of everything about them other
0:41:55than the chip, and the chip is still faster because the high-end chips of M1 are faster
0:42:00than the M2 base.
0:42:01And I guess if you could get a good deal on an M1 MacBook Pro and you wanted that, that's
0:42:07probably also still very good for you, you know?
0:42:10Yeah, the M2 as a processor is like what we've seen in the march of the A-series processors.
0:42:14The M2 is faster, but it's not, you know, amazingly faster. It's faster. It's got the
0:42:20next generation core from the A15, and so the A14. It's got the next generation neural
0:42:24engine, next generation GPUs, it's got the video encoders from the M2 high-end, it's
0:42:30got the memory system that the high-end M1s had, and so it's got better memory and faster
0:42:36storage and it's got lots of things about it. But the fact is most people are not coming
0:42:40from an M1 anything to this. They would be coming from an Intel something to this, and
0:42:47that's where you get your big leap. So the truth is if you're going from an Intel something
0:42:52to a refurbished or cheaper M1 laptop that's still for sale, you're still going to get
0:42:58the bulk of that great leap and save some money. So that's also true. Yeah.
0:43:05- I guess it's price points, right? Like this is just, it hits a price point. That's why
0:43:09this product exists. They can't make the 14 or won't make the 14 for what the 13 costs.
0:43:15So until they can, the 13 exists. - The more people I talk to about this, the
0:43:21stories I hear about what I already kind of intuited but I think is absolutely the case,
0:43:26which is this product exists because some people will only buy a product, a laptop with
0:43:32Pro on it. They will only buy a MacBook Pro. They don't see themselves as MacBook Air people.
0:43:38They want a serious laptop and they want the Pro. But I think that when I say people, the
0:43:44truth is it's mostly not people. The truth is I think it's mostly corporate buyers. I
0:43:50think they're corporate IT groups and Apple sells a lot of laptops to corporations and
0:43:55corporate IT groups are like, "I don't want the MacBook Air. That's a consumer system.
0:43:59I want the MacBook Pro." They stand behind it. Those are serious tools. And I heard from
0:44:04people who are like, "Yeah, I asked my company to buy me a MacBook Air and they said, 'I
0:44:08got you something better,' and it was the 13-inch MacBook Pro." And they're like, "Uh,
0:44:12no, it's not better." But it's got the name on it and the IT people won't buy the Air,
0:44:18they'll buy the Pro. And I think, yes, historically there are probably some things about buying
0:44:23consumer laptops in general, including not from Apple, versus buying ones that use professional
0:44:28parts and are professional laptops. I think in truth, there's no difference between buying
0:44:33an M2 MacBook Air and an M2 MacBook Pro once the Air is available. I don't really think
0:44:37there is an appreciable difference there. But the name matters. The name is important.
0:44:42And if you're a company that's standardized on that name and you're not willing to buy
0:44:47that person a $2,000 laptop, well, guess what?
0:44:50There's a $1,200 laptop that you can get
0:44:53that is also a MacBook Pro.
0:44:56And so I think that's why it's Apple's number two seller
0:44:59of laptops is mostly for corporate sales.
0:45:02And I think that's gonna only increase now
0:45:04because at least in, there was a little more differentiation
0:45:09or a little less differentiation, I guess,
0:45:11in the M1 generation where the Air also didn't have MagSafe.
0:45:14Right, like it also was an old design.
0:45:17But now the Air is the new design and the Pro 13-inch is not.
0:45:21And so there's even less of a reason
0:45:24to choose it over the Air.
0:45:25So yeah, I think it's for price point.
0:45:27So Apple can say the MacBook Pro starts at $1,200,
0:45:31even though it doesn't.
0:45:32The 1200, I forget exactly what the price is,
0:45:35but it's a low price and then it's $1,999 for the MacBook 14.
0:45:40And so yeah, $1,299, so it's not even $1,200.
0:45:44$1,300 is a lot less than 2,000, right?
0:45:49I mean, that's a lot of money.
0:45:51That's $700 on a product that's $1,300.
0:45:54So it's a huge leap.
0:45:57And if you're saying to yourself,
0:45:58well, why doesn't Apple make a new version of the 13
0:46:01with the new technology?
0:46:02And I have two thoughts about that.
0:46:04One is they did, it's the MacBook Pro 14.
0:46:08And two is if they did it,
0:46:12they'd have to charge a lot more.
0:46:14even if they did a stripped down version.
0:46:15- I mean the MacBook Air is also though, right?
0:46:17- Right, they wanna keep their margins for the MacBook Pro
0:46:21and yet they also know that there's a limit
0:46:24to how many they're gonna sell
0:46:25if they push that MacBook Pro starting price up above 1299.
0:46:29And they're not willing to say,
0:46:30you can't buy into the MacBook Pro for less than two grand.
0:46:34So this product exists.
0:46:36And I think nobody's happy about it.
0:46:39I would argue that the people at Apple
0:46:41don't like this product either,
0:46:43but they have to make it.
0:46:44Even though it's old and it doesn't have any of the stuff
0:46:47that they push forward with the laptops
0:46:49the last couple of years,
0:46:50they're stuck with it because they want to keep the margins
0:46:54and they know it sells
0:46:55and they know they can't raise that price.
0:46:56And so here we are,
0:46:59even though the Air comparably configured is the same price
0:47:03and is an advanced version of this with the same chip
0:47:07and yes, battery and a fan,
0:47:09but most people won't care about the differences.
0:47:12And the positive differences are so great.
0:47:15So it's here, it is what it is.
0:47:18I don't know if anybody's gonna ever be excited about it,
0:47:21but a lot of people are gonna get them.
0:47:23And if you're one of those people
0:47:24whose work buys them a MacBook Pro
0:47:25and you're very excited you're getting an M2 MacBook Pro
0:47:27and you get it and it's this thing, it'll be fine.
0:47:31But it also won't feel appreciably different
0:47:32than that laptop you got in the late 2010s,
0:47:35'cause it's basically the same, touch bar and all.
0:47:38- So the 1299 model comes with a 256 gigabyte SSD,
0:47:42that's what it starts at.
0:47:44- Yep.
0:47:45- I saw some reports over the weekend
0:47:47that there are some YouTubers who have tested this machine
0:47:49and have realized that this 256 base model
0:47:53has a slower SSD than the M1 MacBook Pro.
0:47:56It's around 50% slower at reading, 30% slower at writing.
0:48:01Upon disassembly, it appears that this machine--
0:48:05- Than the M1 13?
0:48:06- Yes.
0:48:07- Yeah, wow. - Yeah, yeah.
0:48:09The product it replaces.
0:48:11Upon disassembly, it appears that this machine
0:48:13has a single NAND flash storage chip
0:48:16where the previous model had two.
0:48:18- Had two.
0:48:19- So that's why it's slower.
0:48:21I was wondering, legacy notes?
0:48:23I don't know, like what's the,
0:48:24this could be, I don't know what the reason is.
0:48:27I will say just as a side again,
0:48:29like going back to that,
0:48:30like the whole point around this machine,
0:48:32I think 256 gigabyte is not enough for a computer today
0:48:35that is a pro machine.
0:48:36Like I think-
0:48:37- And yet here we are because of the compromises
0:48:40that are made in order to get this to hit the price point.
0:48:43And yeah, I agree.
0:48:45I mean, and again, it's not like,
0:48:47it's not like 1299, even the base price
0:48:53is not a real price, right?
0:48:54'Cause then you're gonna spec it up,
0:48:55but it gets you in the door.
0:48:56And I think like that IT person who's like,
0:48:58"Well, yeah, I don't like that configuration,
0:49:00but then I can do a custom configuration
0:49:01and I can get it to 1599 and I'm happy with that.
0:49:04and it's still not 20, or 1999.
0:49:06So it's not a real price,
0:49:09but it's a real base that allows you to get in.
0:49:11I agree.
0:49:12I mean, everything about this system is compromised.
0:49:14By the way, for the record, I have the one terabyte model
0:49:17and I don't have an M113 MacBook Pro to compare it to.
0:49:19So I'm glad people are out there doing that work.
0:49:21- Apparently this is only on the lowest,
0:49:25the 256 is the only place where there is this difference
0:49:28in SSD speed.
0:49:29- Right, right.
0:49:30Which is the base model, which you probably, yeah.
0:49:32- No reviewers have sent this model.
0:49:34No reviewers have ever sent this model.
0:49:35- Shocker.
0:49:36Yeah, no, you're never, well,
0:49:38sometimes you're sent the base model,
0:49:39but mostly you're not because Apple doesn't want to do that.
0:49:43They want the reviewers to have this great experience.
0:49:45I compared it to my M1 Air,
0:49:46and it's a step up, but it's moderate.
0:49:52And again, I would just hold out for the M2 Air
0:49:54if you're gonna go that direction.
0:49:56But most people just, I wanna remind everybody again,
0:49:59Most people do not upgrade from an M1 to an M2, right?
0:50:02Because that's one generation.
0:50:04Like most people are not gonna do that.
0:50:05Most people are still who are gonna buy this system
0:50:08and buy the Air, they are coming from Intel.
0:50:11And I ran some speed tests on Intel on my iMac Pro,
0:50:16but also on Lauren's 2018 MacBook Air.
0:50:21Yeah, somewhere between six and 15 times, times faster,
0:50:27not 60%, six times faster, some cases 10 times faster.
0:50:32It is, that's the leap,
0:50:35because that's the Apple Silicon leap.
0:50:36And anybody who still hasn't gone to Apple Silicon,
0:50:39a lot of people talk to big talk about like,
0:50:41oh, I'm not gonna ever do the first generation of a chip.
0:50:43Like if those people are like holding out still,
0:50:45well, M2 is gonna give you everything
0:50:48that the jump to M1 would have given you and more,
0:50:50and that's what most people are gonna buy.
0:50:52But like this laptop, it's just not that exciting.
0:50:54- If you've got an Intel MacBook Pro 13 inch,
0:50:57you should be upgrading to the new MacBook Air.
0:50:59You should not be upgrading to this machine.
0:51:02Like you will get a new design, you will get new features,
0:51:05you will get more ports.
0:51:06- You get an extra port because if you charge your laptop
0:51:11on this one, you lose one of the two ports that it's got.
0:51:15Whereas on the Air, if you charge your laptop,
0:51:18you still have two ports on it.
0:51:20- The true replacement for the Intel 13 inch MacBook Pro.
0:51:22- Extra screen space because the menu bar
0:51:27creeps up around the webcam.
0:51:29You get a better webcam.
0:51:30This console has the 720p webcam in it.
0:51:33- Yes, bad computer, get a MacBook Air.
0:51:36That is the upgrade guarantee.
0:51:39- It's not a bad computer,
0:51:42but it's using outmoded technology
0:51:46that Apple's only selling to hit a price point.
0:51:48And there's another product at the same price point.
0:51:52that does this better.
0:51:55So unless you just, again,
0:51:58are in one of those deep edge cases,
0:52:00like just don't, if you're listening to upgrade,
0:52:02like don't do it, just don't do it.
0:52:03- 'Cause it's like we were talking about this too, right?
0:52:06Like people say like it's got a fan in it, which is true.
0:52:08But if you are doing work at a sustained level
0:52:13on a MacBook Pro M2,
0:52:17where you need the fan
0:52:18because of the difference the fan's gonna make,
0:52:20you have to push these chips so far,
0:52:23you also shouldn't be using this machine
0:52:26'cause it's not good enough for you.
0:52:27- Like I said, those are the edge cases.
0:52:30It makes sense if you're somebody
0:52:31for whom battery is the highest priority,
0:52:34that you don't care about the ports
0:52:35and all the other things that the Air does better.
0:52:37And if you're pushing the GPU as hard as that
0:52:40to make it really throttle on the non-fan-based system,
0:52:45I would say to you, what work are you doing to do that?
0:52:48And could you go up in price?
0:52:52Can you afford to go up in price and get the 14 inch model?
0:52:55Because if you're pushing your GPU that hard,
0:52:58you really should get the 14 inch one if you can afford it.
0:53:01And I'm not sure there are many people out there
0:53:04buying the low end MacBook Pro to do graphics work
0:53:09that is so high end that they push it to that limit.
0:53:13Like I am, again, I'm sure there are edge cases.
0:53:17I'm sure there are people who can barely afford
0:53:20the base model and are gonna push it to the limits
0:53:23and are gonna be happy with it.
0:53:25But I would argue that if you care so much
0:53:29about that extra headroom because of the fan,
0:53:31you might wanna save your money
0:53:34and wait until you've got enough money to buy the 14 inch
0:53:38because it's just gonna be so much better on every level.
0:53:43So that's why I'm skeptical of how large the edge cases are
0:53:46for this. I want to be fair to the product and say yes, it does have some benefits, but
0:53:50I really don't believe many people would, who fit that model exist. I just don't believe
0:53:56it.
0:53:57So it's the summer of fun. So we're going to do something weird today. We're going to
0:54:03do what I'm calling the iPhone stats check. I have accumulated a variety of things that
0:54:11have numbers attached to them about iPhones that you can get from poking around inside
0:54:18of the iPhone, we're going to compare our stats. So, starting out with, how many apps
0:54:25do you have installed on your iPhone, Jason Stell?
0:54:28Right, can we start with what our phone is?
0:54:30Oh yeah, that's a good stat.
0:54:32The greatest stat of all?
0:54:33Mm-hmm. What is your phone?
0:54:35Mine's an iPhone 13 mini in blue. That's what it is?
0:54:40- I have a iPhone 13 Pro Max in gold,
0:54:44AKA the best phone.
0:54:47- Sure.
0:54:48(laughing)
0:54:50- How many apps do you have installed?
0:54:51- Thank you, my phone is the best phone, thank you.
0:54:54I have 105 apps installed.
0:54:56- Okay, I have 323.
0:54:59- Seems a bit extreme.
0:55:02- There's some numbers in here, I saw them,
0:55:04I was like, why?
0:55:05- Well, once App Library exists, right?
0:55:08- Yeah, it's all there, man.
0:55:10You can just not delete apps and they just are there.
0:55:13And then if you turn on the setting that offloads them,
0:55:15if you don't use them, they're still there,
0:55:18but they're not actually there.
0:55:19- I mean, I don't do the offloading.
0:55:20- So you can really go to town.
0:55:21- Because I have a 512 gigabyte iPhone,
0:55:24which is important for the next question
0:55:27of how many gigabytes of your iPhone is used.
0:55:30- Well, I only have 128 gigabyte iPhone and I'm using 81.
0:55:38Well, you can only get so much storage in that little phone,
0:55:41you know, it's small, so you can just like small chips.
0:55:43Makes sense.
0:55:45I'm using 292 gigabytes of my iPhone storage.
0:55:49- That's a lot.
0:55:51I guess when your capacity goes up, your usage goes up too.
0:55:55- Yeah, the reason that I went with the 512 is that my,
0:56:00whenever it was that I went from 256 to 512,
0:56:03I was already starting to push up towards 256.
0:56:06And I'm like, okay, I don't want to ever think about this.
0:56:09I'm just gonna go 512, now I'm on 512.
0:56:12It's gonna be a long time before I need to go up from there.
0:56:16- When I was buying this phone,
0:56:18I looked at what my usage was on my previous phone
0:56:20and I realized that I couldn't use, 128 would be fine.
0:56:25I'll put it that way, was not an issue.
0:56:29So I saved a little money.
0:56:31- One of my reasons is I have all my photos and videos
0:56:35save locally to my device.
0:56:36- I don't, iCloud, photo library.
0:56:40- Well, I mean, we'll get to why in a minute,
0:56:42but that's one of the things for me,
0:56:44like I have mine and that's a huge,
0:56:46I don't know, I don't need to, I just want to.
0:56:49And so I do.
0:56:50How many songs do you have on your iPhone?
0:56:53- I have 533.
0:56:59I believe this only counts ones that are downloaded
0:57:02to music.
0:57:03- I'm expecting so, yes.
0:57:05I'm at 950, I don't know why, but that's what I'm at.
0:57:10I think maybe the phone's just downloading a bunch of stuff
0:57:13on its own, right?
0:57:14'Cause I have the storage space.
0:57:15- I have, well, what I do is I have a bunch of playlists
0:57:19and stuff that I've marked as download for--
0:57:22- I've done some of that too, but I think the phone's--
0:57:24- For airplane trips, basically.
0:57:27- That's exactly why I have mine too.
0:57:29- Yeah.
0:57:30- How many videos are on your device?
0:57:32- 2,517.
0:57:34- Right, and then obviously,
0:57:36this is where the thing is a little complicated,
0:57:38but like that's not what you've got downloaded,
0:57:40but that's just what the device can see, right?
0:57:43- So videos is a weird one,
0:57:44'cause I was like, why do I have that many?
0:57:46And I thought, do I have TV shows?
0:57:47Do I have movies?
0:57:48Why do I have 2000 movies on this little tiny...
0:57:49The answer is that this is an iCloud photo library number,
0:57:53or at least includes iCloud photo library,
0:57:56and it doesn't have to be local for it to be counted.
0:57:59So that includes all the videos that I've ever shot
0:58:02that are in my iCloud photo library.
0:58:04- I thought my number was high, which is 697.
0:58:08(laughing)
0:58:10- It turns out it's nothing.
0:58:12- I mentioned having all my photos downloaded.
0:58:16I have 15,651 photos on my iPhone.
0:58:21Jason, how many photos are on your iPhone?
0:58:24- 94,000.
0:58:25- Is that exactly?
0:58:27- Yes.
0:58:28- That's unbelievable.
0:58:30- Well, I've got news for you.
0:58:31I took that picture for something
0:58:33that'll be in the pro show today,
0:58:36Upgrade Plus about, yes, well,
0:58:39the pro show is how connected refers to it.
0:58:41So I'm just using the jargon, the vernacular.
0:58:43I mentioned as people will hear in Upgrade Plus
0:58:46that I got some new key caps for my keyboard
0:58:47and I took a picture.
0:58:49I had already done the numbers.
0:58:50So I'm excited to report that having taken the picture
0:58:52of my keyboard and posted it to the members Slack,
0:58:55I'm now at 94,001.
0:58:58- Your name is a love of the place today.
0:59:00- I don't know.
0:59:01- I'm counting photos, Myke.
0:59:02I got no time for anything but counting photos at this point.
0:59:05My point is I was at 94,000 when you asked me this question,
0:59:09but now I'm at 94,001 because I took a picture
0:59:11of my keyboard.
0:59:12- Unbelievable.
0:59:13That's such a huge number.
0:59:14- And that's iCloud Photo Library.
0:59:15Again, those aren't on the device.
0:59:17They're an iCloud Photo Library,
0:59:18but I just went over to my Photos app on my Mac
0:59:20and it is a similar, although not exactly the same,
0:59:24of course, 'cause it's iCloud Photo Library number.
0:59:27- I wonder how big your iPhone would need to be
0:59:29to hold your iCloud photo library database?
0:59:32Click down on it.
0:59:33- Well, the iCloud photo library itself
0:59:35is many gigabytes.
0:59:40- Yeah.
0:59:41- So-- - No joke.
0:59:43- It's like a terabyte or something, I don't know.
0:59:44It's a lot.
0:59:45It doesn't fit.
0:59:47It's on my server.
0:59:47That's where it lives, in iCloud.
0:59:49- How many home screens do you have,
0:59:51including hidden home screens?
0:59:53- One.
0:59:56- I have four.
0:59:58I have three usually,
0:59:59and then one that I enable when I'm traveling,
1:00:02which is like a whole travel set up home screen.
1:00:05- Yeah, no, it's a nice idea.
1:00:06I like the idea of the travel home screen.
1:00:08I may set, try to set that up for when I'm traveling.
1:00:12- It's really nice.
1:00:13- 'Cause it's a nice idea.
1:00:14But I, and in fact, Relay FM members, I guess,
1:00:18well, got an email over the weekend with my home screen.
1:00:21After doing that, I had a conversation
1:00:26in a great Slack that we are in.
1:00:29And I decided to embrace the Siri app widget lifestyle.
1:00:34'Cause what I was thinking is I don't actually know what,
1:00:42my old home screen strategy is invalid now
1:00:45because of app library and because I use search all the time.
1:00:50- Yep. - Do I really need anything?
1:00:52All the home screen serves now is as a quick
1:00:56access for apps that I don't need to search for
1:01:00because I use them so often
1:01:01that they need to be right there on the top.
1:01:02That's it, right?
1:01:03'Cause you can just pull down to search
1:01:06and find anything and launch it.
1:01:07So what is that home screen for?
1:01:10And so for me, it's got some widgets on it.
1:01:13It's now got the Siri widget on it,
1:01:17which shows eight apps that the phone thinks I might want.
1:01:21And then it's got 12 apps that I chose myself.
1:01:26And so far, that's actually pretty good.
1:01:28It kind of knows the apps that I use regularly
1:01:30that aren't visible on the home screen and surfaces them.
1:01:33And if they're not there, then I just do a quick search.
1:01:35So that's what I'm trying now.
1:01:38- Yeah, I use the Siri suggestions a lot from Spotlight.
1:01:41You know, like when you pull down,
1:01:42typically the app that I wanna search for
1:01:45is usually in that.
1:01:46So I'm not surprised that that widget does well.
1:01:48And of my three home screens,
1:01:50I'm gonna ask this number in a minute.
1:01:51So let me just ask this number.
1:01:52How many widgets now do you have on your home screen?
1:01:56- Well, I put down two, but it's actually three
1:01:59because I've got the widget that is my weather station,
1:02:02like current temperature and stuff.
1:02:04I've got the widget that's air quality, which I wrote.
1:02:06Both of those are ones that I wrote in Scriptable,
1:02:09the excellent app that lets you write your own widgets
1:02:12in JavaScript.
1:02:13And then I have the Siri suggestions app widget
1:02:17right below it, which is great because it is invisible.
1:02:20It just looks like there are eight apps there,
1:02:22but they move when you're not looking.
1:02:24- So of my three home screens,
1:02:27two and a half of them are widgets.
1:02:30I have 10 widgets across the three homes.
1:02:33I only have app icons on the first one.
1:02:35I love all of my widgets.
1:02:37I have great widgets.
1:02:37I have carrot and fantastic cow in a stack.
1:02:40I have Timery.
1:02:41And then I have a bunch of Widgetsmith ones,
1:02:44which is like a time one, a pollen one,
1:02:46which is really great.
1:02:47I love the pollen thing.
1:02:49I have some photos ones.
1:02:51I have an app called Train Beacon that tells me
1:02:54train times for whom are destinations that I need.
1:02:57I have a fitness one.
1:02:59I have another time re-widget,
1:03:00like that's got more statistics
1:03:02than just telling me what the current running one is.
1:03:04And then a craft widget as well
1:03:06for the craft notes that I use, so.
1:03:08- I do have a couple of widgets that are off,
1:03:11off on the left to right swipe.
1:03:14- I do too, I didn't include those in there, but.
1:03:17- Yeah, they're not on home screens,
1:03:18but I do have Fantastic Cal out there
1:03:19and actually the batteries widget is out there too.
1:03:22- I have a lot of shortcuts widgets out on that page.
1:03:26What is your battery health percentage?
1:03:29- 96%.
1:03:31- 97.
1:03:33Good big battery. - Good battery.
1:03:34- Good big battery.
1:03:35How many hours have you saved in Overcast?
1:03:40- 183.
1:03:42- I'm at 318.
1:03:46- This is always the one though, like I say that number,
1:03:49like that's a big number and then I'll listen
1:03:50and send in there like 200,000 hour ones.
1:03:53- Well, we don't listen at three X.
1:03:55- What was your total screen time last week?
1:03:59- Well, screen time tells me it was nine hours
1:04:03and 18 minutes, which is just--
1:04:04- Was that the average or the total?
1:04:06- I think that was the total.
1:04:08- No, that can't be right.
1:04:09- No, it's wrong.
1:04:11- Screen time does get things wrong.
1:04:13- Well, and I think I've got it turned off
1:04:14in a bunch of places.
1:04:15- Yeah, I have it on everywhere.
1:04:17- I decided that screen time,
1:04:18I decided that screen time was a complete waste of my time
1:04:21and I turned it off.
1:04:22- Okay, I have it turned on all my computers,
1:04:25my iPhone, iPad, Mac, sort of kind of stuff
1:04:27and I have 54 hours and 48 minutes,
1:04:29which, you know, looks like a huge difference
1:04:33between the two of us,
1:04:34but that's assuming that one is correct.
1:04:37How many focus modes do you have?
1:04:44- Hard to, so I have two that I made.
1:04:47- Yep.
1:04:48- And then the ones that come with the OS.
1:04:52- I have three that I made.
1:04:56There's four total.
1:04:57One of them is just one of the ones,
1:04:58like a work one I never adjusted.
1:05:00I think I deleted some of the ones that were built into,
1:05:03but I have four focus modes.
1:05:05How many shortcuts do you have?
1:05:06- We're not gonna talk about our focus modes?
1:05:10- Oh, I mean, yeah, we can talk about our focus modes.
1:05:12- What are your four focus modes?
1:05:13So my focus modes are, I'm going to the now,
1:05:17so I get all the names for you.
1:05:18I have do not disturb, obviously.
1:05:20I have a fitness focus mode
1:05:22that turns off notification from absolutely everything.
1:05:26Recording, which is what is on right now,
1:05:31which basically puts me in do not disturb
1:05:33bar a couple of contacts.
1:05:35And then there is a travel focus mode
1:05:37that was supposed to be tied into that travel home screen,
1:05:41but I realized I don't want to be in a focus mode
1:05:43the entire time I'm traveling because of the way that focus works currently so I ended
1:05:49up not using that and just manually enabling the home screen. I made change to this so
1:05:55now that the focus mode options can now be like a opt in opt out rather than just like
1:06:00all opt in of the apps and people you want to use I will probably change over maybe I'll
1:06:06you know maybe I've traveled I might like turn off stack notifications or something
1:06:10Who knows, but I'll play around with that more with iOS 16 for the travel.
1:06:14I have a personal one that I theoretically could use, but I've never used.
1:06:19The one that I have used is I have a work one that essentially is my writing focus mode
1:06:23and it just, it's gently shutting down a whole bunch of notifications while I'm writing so
1:06:28that I don't get as distracted.
1:06:30I still let people, there are a bunch of people in apps that can get through, but it's a reduced
1:06:35set so there's reduced distraction.
1:06:37But I like the idea of trying to work on like a recording focus mode is a good idea.
1:06:44Yeah, some of those.
1:06:45I need to put some time into those.
1:06:47Yeah, that writing one for you is kind of similar to a recording one for me.
1:06:51But it's very, very, very pared down, my recording focus mode.
1:06:55I like it especially on the Mac, right?
1:06:57So it's very few notifications coming through.
1:07:01How many shortcuts do you have?
1:07:03135.
1:07:04I'm at 51.
1:07:06I recently went through and got rid of a lot of stuff.
1:07:08I was at like 200 and I went through and got rid of tons.
1:07:12- Yeah, I mean, I've got some stuff in there
1:07:14that I need to get out that stuff I added
1:07:15for the Mac stories contest.
1:07:18Like I've got the text adventure still in there.
1:07:20I can probably delete that.
1:07:21But, and this is not really about our iPhones, right?
1:07:24It's about what's present in iCloud.
1:07:26So it's our shortcuts across devices.
1:07:28So I could delete a bunch of them,
1:07:30but I actually do use a bunch of them
1:07:32and more all the time now that they also are on the Mac.
1:07:35So yeah, so it's a lot.
1:07:38- How many Apple notes?
1:07:40- 860.
1:07:42- Woo, I'm at 688, I thought I had a lot.
1:07:45I don't delete any, I assume you don't either.
1:07:48- I don't, well, clearly I don't.
1:07:50- Yeah, I mean, I kind of like,
1:07:51I know people that delete notes, like why?
1:07:53Just leave them there, it's like nothing, just,
1:07:55you never know when you might need them.
1:07:56- And then you can search them and find them later
1:07:58if there's something in them, you're like, what was that?
1:08:00And then, so it's funny, I don't use notes for everything,
1:08:04But I do put some things like when I was testing
1:08:08the M2 MacBook Pro, I put like the scores in there
1:08:11cause they sync across devices.
1:08:13So if I take the scores on a system for a test
1:08:16that I'm running, I can either use that system
1:08:18or I can use a different system to note it
1:08:20while I'm running it.
1:08:21And they all just sync together in one place.
1:08:22That's nice.
1:08:23I will occasionally do a, you know, jot this down
1:08:29where somebody is like, can I tell you something?
1:08:30And I'm like, all right, let me just quick open a note
1:08:32and I'll write it down.
1:08:33The biggest thing I use notes for is podcast notes,
1:08:38especially for the incomparable,
1:08:42if I'm watching a movie or TV show.
1:08:44And while I'm watching it,
1:08:45I'm taking notes so that I can know what to talk about.
1:08:48And so my notes is full of that, just packed full of that.
1:08:53- How many tab groups do you have in Safari?
1:08:57- Three.
1:09:00- What are they?
1:09:02They are, let's look, I have one called Product,
1:09:07which I think is, yeah, this is a project I was doing
1:09:13where I was trying to think about building.
1:09:18So it's stuff like, can I build a new script for my,
1:09:23for one writer or a shortcut
1:09:25that will do faster Amazon affiliate linking?
1:09:30'cause there was an app for that,
1:09:32but that app kind of sunset.
1:09:35So I've got like little project notes in here
1:09:36and also a publishing on Apple news
1:09:38that's sort of like, am I gonna ever convert six colors
1:09:41to use the Apple news format?
1:09:42Don't know if I actually am
1:09:44'cause there are lots of issues with that,
1:09:46but that's all like resources for things
1:09:50that I want to look into building at some point.
1:09:54I have something called buy stuff,
1:09:56which is literally products I'm sort of interested in buying
1:09:59but not right now.
1:10:01And I have a big,
1:10:02it's like six or seven things open in there.
1:10:04Which like, I'm not gonna buy this now.
1:10:06And it used to be, I just leave that tab open
1:10:07until I accidentally close it.
1:10:09And then I would never buy it.
1:10:10And now I send those tabs to buy stuff.
1:10:13And then I have a tab called work stuff.
1:10:17What is in this tab?
1:10:20I don't even know.
1:10:20- What's going on with that group?
1:10:23- That's funny.
1:10:23- You don't even know do you?
1:10:27- There's, it's why this isn't always, well, yeah,
1:10:30there's just banana stuff is in here.
1:10:32The original iPod press releases in here,
1:10:35WordPress REST API is in here,
1:10:37archiving and version control for keyboard maestro.
1:10:40- This is a mishmash.
1:10:43- It's yeah, I think it's stuff that I wanted to keep around
1:10:46but didn't want, right?
1:10:49I mean, there's stuff like the,
1:10:51I was thinking about buying a different kind of partition
1:10:53instead of curtains from my office that's in here.
1:10:55It's a, it's blog posts.
1:10:57- It's basically junk.
1:10:58There's just junk in there.
1:10:59- Yeah, there's a junk drawer.
1:11:00- I don't know why it's there.
1:11:01- There's a junk drawer.
1:11:02I have seven.
1:11:03- Wow, I hope they're better organized than mine.
1:11:06- Yes, 'cause I use them all.
1:11:09Like every day I have a Relay FM tab group,
1:11:12which is just all things.
1:11:14What I love about tab groups is I have like
1:11:16this Relay FM tab group, it has like 25 tabs
1:11:20and it's like anything I could need.
1:11:22It's all of, it's like all tabs for all of our
1:11:24publishing tools, our ad tools, the memberful dashboards in there, a bunch of Google sheets
1:11:30are in there for like keeping up with tracking stuff, Freshbooks, Trello, like anything I
1:11:34could need. It's all in there and I just leave them all open and then they're always cluttering
1:11:38up my tab bar. I have one for recording which I'm in right now, which just has show documents
1:11:44and the CMS in there. I have one for Cortex brand which is similar like all of the various
1:11:50projects we have there and like I have the various websites I'm working on in there.
1:11:56I have one for keyboard stuff like products that I'm interested in. I have one for we're
1:12:02going through the house buying process again so I've got a new home tab group. I have one
1:12:08for my mentorship that I do for podcast mentorship and I have a tab group which currently has
1:12:14nothing in it which is vacation and anytime we're planning a vacation all of the tabs
1:12:19for the vacation go in the vacation tab group.
1:12:22- That's a good use.
1:12:23Excellent work.
1:12:24- I look forward to making that tab group
1:12:26a shared tab group.
1:12:28- Yeah.
1:12:29- With iOS and MacOS 16.
1:12:31- For sure.
1:12:32- So yeah, that's tab groups.
1:12:34Oh, I had one last one for you.
1:12:36How many unread emails do you have?
1:12:38- Somewhere between none and 2,477.
1:12:48- I don't understand.
1:12:50Can be the answer to this question.
1:12:53- So I use SaneBox and my inbox is completely read,
1:12:58although there's lots of messages in it,
1:12:59but I've read them all.
1:13:00I also have SaneLater and SaneNews, they're unread.
1:13:06There are lots of them in there, but I don't care.
1:13:10But my inbox itself, although not at zero,
1:13:13there's lots of things in the inbox,
1:13:15but it's not, there's nothing unread in there,
1:13:18just in the other priority mailboxes.
1:13:22- Yeah, exactly.
1:13:23- I have eight unread emails in my emailing box right now.
1:13:27- Get to that.
1:13:28- I'll try.
1:13:29- Okay.
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1:15:21Let's do some #AskUpgradeQuestions to finish today's episode.
1:15:26First comes from John.
1:15:27Jason, what is the right pronunciation of the new version of macOS?
1:15:32I have been hearing various levels throughout various podcasts and would like the definitive
1:15:37Californian take.
1:15:38Is it "ven-tura", "ven-tura", "ven-tura", or "ven-tura"?
1:15:47Well first off I want to say there's no such thing as definitive pronunciations.
1:15:50But you did this before with one of the Californian names.
1:15:54You were saying as a Californian, it's this.
1:15:58I don't remember which one it was.
1:15:59Maybe it was Monterey or something?
1:16:01- Maybe it was Monterey.
1:16:02So I would say that although I've been referring
1:16:06to Ventura a lot, if you asked me about,
1:16:11that we're gonna drive through Ventura on the way
1:16:16to wherever, I would do the ch sound.
1:16:20I would do Ventura, almost like it's V-E-N-C-H-U-R-A,
1:16:24Ventura, a little bit, instead of Ventura.
1:16:26I think that's mostly laziness,
1:16:28and that's a lot of accents come from laziness
1:16:31where it's like, eh, do I need to be that precise?
1:16:33Do I need to pop that T, Ventura?
1:16:35Ventura is a very, that's my radio voice of saying Ventura,
1:16:40when in fact, in real life, I would just say Ventura.
1:16:43Ventura. Like a churro.
1:16:45Oh, okay.
1:16:46But you can do whatever.
1:16:47Ventura and Ventura.
1:16:48I mean, I've already said, I like to say Ventura.
1:16:49I like to say ventura, 'cause it just sounds more fun,
1:16:51like to just put a bit of like zorro on it or something.
1:16:54Ventura.
1:16:55That's how I'm going.
1:16:57Ventura, ventura, ventura is not, no, ventura,
1:17:01like vench, ventura.
1:17:03Yeah.
1:17:04Ventura is probably what I would say,
1:17:06and in radio voice it's been ventura.
1:17:08Ventura, ventura.
1:17:10The Cadillac ventura.
1:17:11What about ventura?
1:17:13No. Is that good?
1:17:15No.
1:17:16Ventura.
1:17:17Ventura.
1:17:17Ventura.
1:17:18- Vento-ray. - It's like a cross
1:17:19between Monterey and Ventura.
1:17:20- Ventolina, that's the new version of Mac.
1:17:22- You know what's between Ventura and Monterey?
1:17:24Confusingly big sir.
1:17:25- Huh, okay.
1:17:29Johan asks, "When do you think Apple
1:17:31"will stop supporting Intel Macs?"
1:17:33- Oh, you know, I mean, where's the line right now?
1:17:40I would say stop supporting, it'll be a few years,
1:17:43you know, two or three years.
1:17:47getting fewer features every time,
1:17:49having banner features not be there,
1:17:51that'll start happening.
1:17:54But stop supporting them altogether.
1:17:57It'll be a while, right?
1:17:58I think Apple's generally pretty good at that.
1:17:59People are angry about Stage Manager,
1:18:00but I think in general,
1:18:02Apple's pretty good at keeping older hardware around
1:18:05and not completely dropping them out.
1:18:08There's also some good security reasons for that, right?
1:18:11So I would say bet on the longer side,
1:18:13but expect that they're gonna start omitting features
1:18:16and it'll be more like, yeah, you get the new update,
1:18:18but you don't really get the new features.
1:18:20You just sort of are on the base and have the security updates,
1:18:23and then at some point that'll go away.
1:18:25So they could change. I mean, they're very changeable,
1:18:28and this is a new thing, but I have to feel like
1:18:31there's two or three years left for sure.
1:18:33-Ventura is on 2017.
1:18:36It's as far back as it goes on some Macs, so...
1:18:40-So I would say that would suggest
1:18:42that it might be four years before they drop it completely,
1:18:46which is, I think that that would not,
1:18:48that might be my guess, if I had to bet, it would be 25.
1:18:52- 2025. - That the 25, WWDC 25,
1:18:56they would say no more Intel.
1:18:58- But understand that by that point,
1:19:00you will be able to upgrade,
1:19:02but you probably won't get many of the new features
1:19:04they're adding every year. - Right.
1:19:05And you may not be happy with, I mean,
1:19:07are they gonna optimize for performance on Intel systems?
1:19:10No. Are they gonna optimize for the machine learning,
1:19:15like all the things that they can get
1:19:18on the Apple Silicon chips?
1:19:20Yes. And so, yeah, it's gonna be,
1:19:22using an Intel Mac will become a less pleasant experience
1:19:26if you're trying to stay up to date
1:19:28with the latest and greatest
1:19:29over the course of the next few years.
1:19:31But I think 25, you know, that might be the final,
1:19:36like, no, this new macOS Death Valley
1:19:40and 25, the Intel Macs are the ones that are in Death Valley at that point, something like
1:19:45that.
1:19:46- Eric writes, "I'm seeing calls for people who menstruate to delete their cycle tracking
1:19:51apps in light of the overturning of Roe, as people fear that states may seek that data
1:19:56to prosecute those who've had abortions.
1:19:59Isn't the Apple cycle tracker safe?
1:20:02What about other apps?"
1:20:04So I have also been seeing a lot of this, and it's quite complicated.
1:20:08I'm going to put a link in the show notes to an article that EFF wrote.
1:20:14It seems to be like this is one of those things where there is a lot of fear and also scaremongering.
1:20:23Unfortunately I see a lot of these tweets and I wonder are people just trying to go
1:20:26viral on Twitter?
1:20:29You can never really tell and that kind of stuff can be a bit tricky.
1:20:33So the EFF kind of says, like, check the privacy policy of the apps that you're using. They
1:20:40recommend one. I've seen a lot of people recommend an app called Clue as well. Apparently they
1:20:44have a pretty good privacy policy about data and stuff. You've put a link in the show notes.
1:20:51Yeah, John Gruber did a Daring Fireball post today about this, and he mentions what the
1:20:58Apple Health policy is. Basically, if you're using iOS 12 or later and have two-factor
1:21:03your health records are end-to-end encrypted.
1:21:07So they don't show up anywhere and Apple can't get to them.
1:21:11And then in addition, by default,
1:21:13you can turn off the iCloud syncing entirely
1:21:16at which point it's just on device.
1:21:18And so that I think the Apple,
1:21:21this is one of those cases where Apple's privacy policies
1:21:23are probably really beneficial because you,
1:21:25even if there's a good app out there,
1:21:27you have to feel personally comfortable
1:21:29that the developer of that app has secure and-
1:21:32remains good.
1:21:34- Like privacy and storage and how everything is working.
1:21:37And I think that with Apple, you have a better idea
1:21:39that if they don't have it unencrypted in some form
1:21:43and they don't have the key,
1:21:45then it really is unreachable by Apple.
1:21:46And we've seen some cases of that
1:21:48in like the San Bernardino case
1:21:52where Apple refused to decrypt.
1:21:55Like there's different acts depending on where
1:21:58like messages can be, messages are in to unencrypted
1:22:01but the iMessage backup is not, right?
1:22:03Like there are places where this varies, but--
1:22:06- If you use messages in the cloud,
1:22:08you give up the end-to-end encryption
1:22:11because the key also-- - It's still there,
1:22:13but the archive is not because they've got the key.
1:22:18- Well, yeah, with the backup of the messages
1:22:21is also the key.
1:22:22So if, what Apple do,
1:22:25'cause I did some research on this too today,
1:22:27what Apple do give up to law enforcement
1:22:30is iCloud backup information.
1:22:34And that includes some stuff.
1:22:36Like you can go and look on Apple's website
1:22:37and you can see the things that's included.
1:22:39Health data is not included in that
1:22:42because it is fully end-to-end encrypted.
1:22:44It's one of the things that's fully end-to-end encrypted.
1:22:46So the only way that law enforcement
1:22:49could get this information
1:22:50is if they had actual physical access to a device of yours.
1:22:54So as long as your device is properly secured,
1:22:58that data can't be accessed.
1:22:59Now, of course, you then get into all of those situations
1:23:02of, like, physical device security, right?
1:23:05And at that point, if you are that concerned
1:23:07about your physical device security,
1:23:09there is no app that you can be --
1:23:12-Yeah, you'd be better off not using electronic devices
1:23:16because -- -Yep.
1:23:18-Or doing it in a code or something because, yeah,
1:23:22if the police demand you to unlock your device
1:23:25and if they force it open,
1:23:28It doesn't matter that you've got it only on your device.
1:23:31'Cause your device is now open.
1:23:33- So this is a very murky water situation.
1:23:39Yes, there are options, but it all depends on what you are.
1:23:44But the other part is it also depends
1:23:46on what your comfort level is.
1:23:48But if what you are, the answer of this question of like,
1:23:53is there a quote unquote safe option?
1:23:55Yes, it's Apple's Health app.
1:23:57that's the one that you can feel confident about,
1:23:59that they're not going to,
1:24:01as confident as you can in a technology company,
1:24:03that they're not gonna do something like this, right?
1:24:07I still want Apple to do full end-to-end encryption
1:24:11of everything, including messages, right?
1:24:15Like I want full end-to-end encryption of iCloud backups.
1:24:18I know why they don't do it,
1:24:20but I think I should be able to check 100 boxes and get it.
1:24:25Because the reason they don't do it
1:24:27is because if I lost all my devices or whatever,
1:24:30then I've lost all of the data, it's gone.
1:24:34I still want to take that into my own hands, right?
1:24:38But, 'cause the idea is like,
1:24:40if you've lost all your devices and all your passwords,
1:24:43you just so many things have to get lost
1:24:45where I'm confident I would never get myself
1:24:47into that situation, but I know why they do it
1:24:49because Apple have so many millions and millions
1:24:51and millions of users, there will be a non-sizable portion
1:24:55of those people that will lose that password and then they've lost their photos. I'm
1:25:00confident that's not going to happen to me. So I wish that they would let people do
1:25:05it with a hundred keys you have to turn or whatever, right? But they don't offer it.
1:25:09So some stuff is in that backup. Health data is not one of those things, thankfully.
1:25:16Brando asks, "I was wondering if all apps work in stage manager on iPad or if apps have
1:25:22to be compiled to work with it like was the case with split screen.
1:25:26One of the great things about stage manager as compared to split screen is because it
1:25:30wasn't like, you had to do a lot of work to get split screen to work.
1:25:34But with stage manager, every iPad app works, some better than others.
1:25:38But basically if an app was already supporting split screen, it's going to work.
1:25:45It works even better if there's an app that supports multiple windows.
1:25:49But yeah, every app can work.
1:25:50of them will just be full screen and you can't do anything with it, including some of the
1:25:54stuff that Apple makes, including settings.
1:25:56Yeah.
1:25:57You know.
1:25:58I, there have been a lot of conversation about settings, especially on the Mac with the new
1:26:02settings app.
1:26:04Um, my, the settings app is, is yeah, full screen, uh, tall on iPad and not resizable
1:26:12on the Mac.
1:26:13And I don't understand, I just don't understand why this is on both fronts.
1:26:17It's like it doesn't, it's just a window.
1:26:19Let me move the window.
1:26:21- I had a thing today, which was funny,
1:26:22where I had the settings app open
1:26:25and I wanted to open one password
1:26:27'cause I was adding a card to Apple Pay.
1:26:31So I needed the verification code of the card
1:26:33like this on the back.
1:26:34I didn't remember it, so I wanted to bring out one password.
1:26:37In Stage Manager, there's no slide over anymore, right?
1:26:41So it wouldn't let me bring in a second window
1:26:43because settings is full screen.
1:26:45- It's full screen.
1:26:46- Wow, yeah, it is, that's probably gonna get fixed
1:26:50during the beta cycle, but most apps,
1:26:52to answer Brando's point here, most apps work fine.
1:26:56I would say the bigger issue is they're using
1:26:59the apps' resizability based on not just multitasking,
1:27:04but all the different screens, right?
1:27:06So they're able to, apps are able to provide
1:27:11different behaviors and present different interfaces
1:27:13based on whether they're on an iPhone or an iPad,
1:27:16or whether they're on a big iPad or a small iPad,
1:27:19or they're in split view, right?
1:27:21They have different appearances.
1:27:22And what Stage Manager is doing is taking advantage
1:27:24of all of those different appearances
1:27:27to let you resize the window.
1:27:29And basically what you're doing is you're telling that app,
1:27:31"My device is this size now, my device is this size now,"
1:27:34and the app relays out.
1:27:37What I would say app developers are going to need to do
1:27:39this summer is look at their apps
1:27:43in the context of Stage Manager
1:27:44and realize when the behaviors that they assumed
1:27:48based on you being on a device
1:27:50are not the same based on being in Stage Manager.
1:27:55And I'll give you an example, which is Slack.
1:27:58On the Mac, you can have an app window
1:28:02that has the channels on the left
1:28:05and the content on the right.
1:28:07In Stage Manager, if you are in anything but full screen,
1:28:12Slack is basically saying, oh, you're in a compact view,
1:28:15I'm not gonna show you that thing on the left,
1:28:18and it's infuriating.
1:28:20It's not their fault.
1:28:21They didn't know that this beta was happening,
1:28:22but it's an example where they're making an assumption
1:28:26that this is a fairly compact view,
1:28:27I'm gonna hide that sidebar on the left side,
1:28:30give the content as much room.
1:28:31It's like, I don't want that sidebar hidden,
1:28:33I want it to stay open all the time.
1:28:34And because when you slide it over,
1:28:36that goes over the content, you can't leave it open.
1:28:39You can't choose.
1:28:40And that's gonna be one of those things
1:28:41that all app developers are gonna have to think is like,
1:28:43oh, I should make it so that people can choose
1:28:45to show or hide this, because in some contexts,
1:28:48you might wanna do that.
1:28:49- This is again, like why developers
1:28:52should have adopted Apple's sidebar for iPad stuff
1:28:56for these reasons.
1:28:57I will say, if you, like, I'm not saying you should do this,
1:29:01or people should do this, but I did do it.
1:29:03If you do the display zooming, like the more space on iPad,
1:29:07that doesn't happen with Slack.
1:29:09- Interesting.
1:29:11Well, I've been using Slack on an external display
1:29:13and it still happens.
1:29:14- Oh, that's funny. - Even if I make it
1:29:15really large. - That's funny.
1:29:16- So it is not great.
1:29:19But again, it's beta for everything.
1:29:21And the developers who didn't even know this feature existed
1:29:23are not to blame for it.
1:29:25But it is, since Brando's question is,
1:29:26are you gonna have to do things,
1:29:28like recompiling, no,
1:29:29because they're using standard features of the OS,
1:29:31It should be usable, but I think there's gonna be a lot
1:29:34of fine tuning this summer when these developers
1:29:39are gonna get their apps in Stage Manager and go,
1:29:41oh no, right?
1:29:43And like, this needs to be better.
1:29:44- Come release time, it's Slack's fault.
1:29:46- Well, if you think about, yeah, I agree.
1:29:48And if you think about like desktop class apps as a concept
1:29:51on the iPad, which Apple wants us to think about,
1:29:54think about something like a Mac app
1:29:57that wouldn't let you turn a sidebar on and off
1:30:00or a toolbar on and off or something like that.
1:30:03There are some apps that do that,
1:30:05like Slack is actually like that,
1:30:06but in general, on the Mac,
1:30:09there's an expectation that the user
1:30:11has some level of control over the interface,
1:30:13and that's less true on an iPad.
1:30:16It's still true, but I think that
1:30:18because the size classes thing was such a big deal
1:30:21in the early days of the iPhone,
1:30:22with like, there are gonna be bigger iPhones,
1:30:23and there's the iPad,
1:30:25and we gotta get away from pixel perfect designs
1:30:28and do these different size classes
1:30:29and everything is responsive to different sizes.
1:30:33I think what got lost in that is the idea
1:30:34that the size of the window isn't the only way
1:30:38that your user experience should be defined.
1:30:40It should also be defined by user intent.
1:30:42And that's a thing that developers,
1:30:45especially of iPad apps need to get over.
1:30:47They need to get over the idea that the size is all
1:30:50that matters in terms of the user experience.
1:30:52'Cause let me tell you, using Stage Manager,
1:30:54it really sucks if you're working on a window
1:30:57and you wanna make it a little smaller
1:30:59and the entire experience of what's on screen changes
1:31:03because they think you're on a different device
1:31:06or something like that.
1:31:06And it's like, I'm not,
1:31:07I just made it a little bit smaller.
1:31:09So you need to, they're gonna need to put,
1:31:11at least in some circumstances,
1:31:12more control in the user's hands for that.
1:31:14But that's what the summer is for.
1:31:16- It's also for fun.
1:31:17- It is also for fun.
1:31:21- If you would like to send in a question
1:31:22for us to answer on the show,
1:31:24just send out a tweet with the #AskUpgrade
1:31:26or use question mark ask upgrade
1:31:27in the relay FM members discord. Don't forget to go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com if you want
1:31:32to pick up an upgrade t-shirt. Just got a couple of weeks left on that. If you want
1:31:37to find Jason online you can go to sixcolors.com. You can find him he's @jasonow, J S N E double
1:31:42L on twitter. I am @imike, I M Y K E. Thank you so much to Zocdoc, Fitbod, TextExpander
1:31:49and our Upgrade Plus members who help us support the show. We'll be back next time. Until then,
1:31:57Say goodbye, Jason Snow.
1:31:58Feel better, Myke Hurley.
1:31:59Thank you.