0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Real AFM, this is Upgrade, episode 395. Today's show is brought to you by
0:00:14Electric, Capital One, and Memoform. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by
0:00:18Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow.
0:00:19Hi, Myke Hurley. US Route 395 runs on the back side of the Sierra Nevada
0:00:24portion of California that people don't think of as California, because it's on
0:00:28It's on the other side of the mountains.
0:00:29Most borders are placed up at the peaks of mountains,
0:00:32but when they formed California, there was no Nevada.
0:00:35And California said, "We want all the mountains.
0:00:37We want all the mountains 'cause there's gold,
0:00:39gold in those mountains."
0:00:40- Let me tell you, Jason Snell,
0:00:42I've heard enough about American roads
0:00:44to last me for a long while.
0:00:46- Tell you about the numbering system now.
0:00:48- That's what I'm talking about.
0:00:49I was actually editing an episode of "Cortex"
0:00:51before we started today, so.
0:00:52- Oh yeah, yeah.
0:00:53Anyway, 395, it's back there.
0:00:55It's that, that's one of my things
0:00:56that I actually really love about California
0:00:58is that it's got this very weird thing
0:01:00where there's the whole other part,
0:01:01that's the dry, deserty part
0:01:03that's on the other side of the mountains,
0:01:04that like, why is that still California?
0:01:06And the answer is, 'cause California got to pick first,
0:01:08and they're like, I'll take all the mountains.
0:01:10Like, if they're gold in the mountains,
0:01:12we will take the mountains then.
0:01:14And so, you can drive on 395, if you like.
0:01:17- We are recording this episode a few days earlier
0:01:21than we normally would.
0:01:21We're recording on Thursday the 17th,
0:01:23'cause Jason's gonna be away.
0:01:25Myke, did you read that Mark Gurman Sunday newsletter?
0:01:27Woo, wow.
0:01:29- But that's the thing.
0:01:29- What revelations were in there?
0:01:31Oh man, amazing.
0:01:33- I don't know what could happen between now and Monday,
0:01:35but things can happen.
0:01:36- It's a little pre-record here.
0:01:38- I have a hashtag snow talk question for you
0:01:40from instantiate this who asks,
0:01:42Jason, if you were in a car chase with the police,
0:01:45what song do you put on to keep you going?
0:01:48- Am I chasing the police?
0:01:50Are we in a joint effort to chase someone else
0:01:53or are they chasing me?
0:01:54It's just her taste with the police.
0:01:55- The interpretation is completely up to you.
0:01:58Are you with them?
0:01:59Are you against them?
0:02:00You know, it doesn't matter.
0:02:00- I'm choosing that I am with them
0:02:02and we are in an 80s movie or TV show.
0:02:07And so the montage as we chase is going to be
0:02:11The Heat Is On by Glenn Frey.
0:02:14- Ooh, that's good.
0:02:16That is good.
0:02:17(mimics music)
0:02:20- That's gonna be it.
0:02:21That's how I choose to answer this question.
0:02:23- This is a good answer and also a good song.
0:02:25- I mean, it is what it is,
0:02:27but I think it fits the mood of the 80s car chase
0:02:31that is going on there.
0:02:32There'll be a lot of like peeling out
0:02:34where like you'll go around the corner
0:02:36and the car will slide a little bit and then keep going.
0:02:39And there'll be like a pedestrian carrying up a sack,
0:02:44like a grocery sack and they'll step into the intersection
0:02:48and then have to step back and their bread will be ejected.
0:02:51- And then there'll be two people
0:02:52carrying a pane of glass. Always, and then of course it'll end in a smashed up
0:02:57fruit cart because whenever you see a fruit cart it's gonna get smashed. It's
0:03:02gonna get tumbled. If you'd like to send in a question to help us open the
0:03:05show just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snelltalk or use question mark
0:03:08#snelltalk in the Relay FM members discord. Jason Snell, pro sideloading.
0:03:14I don't know if I'm ready to come out and say Apple should just allow
0:03:20side loading, like anybody can just load any app onto their iOS device, I think it's worth
0:03:25considering that as a possibility. What I wanted to do is, I wrote this Macworld article
0:03:29that was basically trying to think of the App Store being better if the App Store doesn't
0:03:37have to be the judge, jury, and executioner for everything on a platform. And that was
0:03:41kind of the thought I had. And it led me to a place where basically I thought it was interesting,
0:03:50is consider what the iOS app store might be like if a rejection didn't mean the app would
0:03:57never be seen.
0:03:59If Apple could, if there was always an alternative and how would that affect the iOS app store?
0:04:08And I thought it might make it better.
0:04:12I think it actually might be a better experience if you look at what they do with the Mac app
0:04:17store and how the Mac works, that the iOS app store might actually be a better place
0:04:23if it wasn't the, you know, the damn holding back every possible bit of software from coming
0:04:30to the platform.
0:04:31I found that an interesting take when I was reading your article because I hadn't really
0:04:35considered it that way because like one of the things that you say is about like Apple
0:04:43being able to be more of a curator again if they don't have to accept everything like
0:04:49that there are types of applications that they have to accept but they're not really
0:04:56the type of thing that they would want to accept or should.
0:05:00And I don't want to get I was accused by a few people it's funny because everybody comes
0:05:05with their own preconceptions so I heard from people who have written extensively about
0:05:11Apple's failings in the App Store who wanted me, you know, to like, it was really funny
0:05:17and I heard from angry developers who are like frustrated with Apple's rules on the
0:05:22Mac App Store and so they don't like the fact that I suggest the Mac App Store was better
0:05:26than the iOS App Store in some ways because they're like, "No, it's all a sham."
0:05:29That's an interesting read because what you're saying is the Mac is better, not the Mac App
0:05:32Store is better. The Mac is better because you have choice. One of those choices is the
0:05:36App Store.
0:05:37- The pressure on the Mac app,
0:05:39the Mac app store does not have,
0:05:41does not decide winners and losers on the Mac, right?
0:05:45The Mac app store is a place
0:05:47and it's a good place for marketing
0:05:49and it may drive sales, although again,
0:05:52it's not as powerful as the iOS app store at all,
0:05:54but it is a place to be if you wanna be there,
0:05:58but if you don't wanna be there, it's fine.
0:06:00And on iOS, it's a different situation.
0:06:03So when I hear from people who are like,
0:06:05Like I said, sideloading is probably less secure
0:06:10than what we have now,
0:06:12but that Apple makes it seem like it's incredibly insecure
0:06:17and Apple has already demonstrated on the Mac
0:06:19that they can make it way more secure than that,
0:06:21but they wanna make this extreme argument.
0:06:23And I heard from some people
0:06:25who are on the other side of that argument
0:06:26who wanted to say, no, don't say it's less secure.
0:06:30It could be just as secure.
0:06:32And like, I don't actually agree with that.
0:06:36I think that fundamentally it would be less secure,
0:06:39but I don't think, but I think Apple overstates it.
0:06:42And the truth is what the people I'm hearing from
0:06:44are the people who want to counter Apple's extreme statement
0:06:47with their own extreme statement
0:06:49in order to have this kind of rhetorical battle.
0:06:52And I'm not interested in playing that battle.
0:06:54I'm not gonna do that.
0:06:56I do think you have to acknowledge that
0:06:58allowing random apps on the platform
0:07:01is probably gonna be less secure than the App Store.
0:07:04Although I'll also grant you the App Store
0:07:06on iOS allows stuff that's bad, right?
0:07:09That's part of the problem is--
0:07:10- There are scams.
0:07:11- There's scammy stuff and bad stuff
0:07:13that doesn't get caught.
0:07:14My point was though that Apple has built up
0:07:16this whole infrastructure on the Mac side
0:07:18involving you've gotta sign up with a developer ID
0:07:21and it has to be notarized.
0:07:22And like they can do stuff that's not App Store approval
0:07:25that still is sort of a verification process
0:07:28before the product is loaded onto their platform, right?
0:07:31They could still do all of that, and they could still pull the plug if something is
0:07:36bad, right?
0:07:37And if something turns out to be malware, they can kill it.
0:07:39They do that on the Mac now.
0:07:40So it's, I think, disingenuous when Apple puts out these white papers about the dangers
0:07:44of sideloading.
0:07:45I think they overstate it.
0:07:47And I think they also overstate the idea that this stuff would be popular, because I think
0:07:53we've learned the lesson of what happened with Fortnite on Android, where they weren't
0:07:58in the Play Store and they wanna be in the Play Store.
0:08:02They do, they're gonna make more sales on the Play Store
0:08:04than try to walk through somebody.
0:08:06Or Facebook, if Facebook, I heard from some people who said,
0:08:10"Oh, but if you do sideloading,
0:08:11"then Facebook will just make their gross apps
0:08:13"that spy on you, require for sideloading."
0:08:16It's like, I don't know, Facebook is gonna lose
0:08:19a lot of users if it's not in the App Store.
0:08:21So I think Facebook, see that's Apple's leverage
0:08:25is you really wanna be in the App Store.
0:08:28but it's different if you don't have to be.
0:08:31- 'Cause Facebook's in the Play Store.
0:08:33Like they haven't set up their whole,
0:08:35like they're not like,
0:08:36oh, we have to be outside of the Play Store.
0:08:39- And like we talked about last week,
0:08:40Apple's gonna have their warnings that say,
0:08:42if you do this, you'll die.
0:08:43Basically, right?
0:08:45Like don't, sideloading leads to death.
0:08:47Don't do it.
0:08:48And then you have to tap the button that says,
0:08:50let me die.
0:08:51And then it's like, okay, fine, sideload.
0:08:54Jump off a bridge then.
0:08:54- I'm a bus developer, not to kill me.
0:08:57- Yeah, yeah.
0:08:58but they might kill you.
0:09:00So that's just too bad for you.
0:09:02So they're gonna do all of that and they're scare,
0:09:04they're scare tactics and all of that to do it.
0:09:07But my larger point about the App Store is,
0:09:08I think once the App Store is not the judge
0:09:10jury and executioner, it actually frees Apple up
0:09:13if they want to be, and this is the question, right?
0:09:14'Cause they haven't stopped these scam apps.
0:09:16But I'm choosing to be a little optimistic here
0:09:18that an App Store that's freed
0:09:20from being judge jury and executioner
0:09:22could actually more freely reject things
0:09:26and say, we don't want this kind of app,
0:09:27or we don't want your app,
0:09:29because they're not gonna get the bad publicity.
0:09:31Oh no, App Store ruins app, this app will never be seen.
0:09:34It's like, no, then it becomes a story that's more like,
0:09:36Apple chooses what it wants to highlight
0:09:39and put in its own storefront,
0:09:41you're free to sell it elsewhere.
0:09:43And I think that that is an actually important point,
0:09:48that the App Store, I think some of the behavior
0:09:52that Apple has in the App Store on iOS
0:09:54is distorted by the fact that it's going to either be bad publicity if they reject it,
0:10:00or it's something they don't like but they feel they need on the platform. And you know,
0:10:05we talk a lot about things like the Xbox streaming service being kind of not allowed on the platform
0:10:12because it doesn't fit with Apple's stand. But I would imagine there are some apps that Apple
0:10:17allows on the platform even though it doesn't like it politically, because the alternative is that
0:10:22it's not on their platform and Apple isn't just a curator of software. Apple's the maker
0:10:27of the platform and sells the phones. And so sometimes they make decisions that are
0:10:31more about the value of the platform. And maybe that calculation would change a little
0:10:34bit if they were more free to say, just put this out yourself. It's not going to be in
0:10:40our app store, but you can just put it out yourself. Even though I know you're behind
0:10:44the scary dialogue box then, and you're not going to get the kind of impressions. And
0:10:48And then my other point is also that interesting stuff
0:10:52happens outside the App Store on the Mac.
0:10:54And that makes the platform more valuable.
0:10:57Like there's no emulators on Mac App Store,
0:11:02but you can do emulators on the Mac.
0:11:04And I mean like Windows emulators and all,
0:11:06like all of that stuff, virtualization.
0:11:08There's all sorts of stuff that just doesn't fit
0:11:09in the Mac App Store that's out there.
0:11:12And it adds value to the platform, right?
0:11:15And Apple doesn't even have to have it in the App Store.
0:11:18And then there's this other class,
0:11:19and I did get some pushback about this too,
0:11:21which is Apple also,
0:11:23especially when Phil Schiller came back
0:11:24and was in charge of the app store again,
0:11:28he made an effort to get some larger developers
0:11:31into the Mac app store,
0:11:33and some high profile apps that were out
0:11:35and to pull them back in and make changes or exceptions.
0:11:39And I heard from developers who were like,
0:11:41"That was all for show.
0:11:42They showed favoritism and gave exceptions to these people
0:11:46to get them in the store."
0:11:47And I understand that that's frustrating
0:11:50and that maybe I am being too optimistic
0:11:52in saying Apple will change in order to make things better
0:11:55if they observe that there are good things on the outside
0:11:58that they want in.
0:11:59But the fact remains, Apple did make an effort
0:12:02to get things that were outside the App Store in.
0:12:05And that I think there's a possibility
0:12:07that Apple will look at something that is so popular
0:12:10that people are turning off the,
0:12:12or turning on the sideloading and you may die provision
0:12:15in order to get it and say, interesting,
0:12:17could that work in the App Store
0:12:19and maybe change their mind about something
0:12:21because they realize that it has some value?
0:12:24Again, maybe I'm being too optimistic,
0:12:26but what I'm trying to do is see beyond the argument
0:12:28about like sideloading yes or no,
0:12:30and sort of like imagine what would that be like?
0:12:33And I really do think that the iOS App Store
0:12:36would be better if it wasn't a death sentence
0:12:39if they rejected your app, I really do.
0:12:42- I'm completely in agreement with all of this.
0:12:44I've been pro side loading for like a year now.
0:12:48It just came to a point when all this antitrust stuff
0:12:50started coming to a head where I was just like,
0:12:52I don't understand why they don't just do this.
0:12:55And I know they won't.
0:12:56Like I feel very confident in that.
0:12:58I feel like over the last few months,
0:13:00a thing that I keep coming back to is,
0:13:03I really want Apple to do something
0:13:06before they're forced to.
0:13:07My thinking for that is that what I would expect them to do
0:13:12is maybe to make some changes to the 30%.
0:13:15That is becoming less and less likely
0:13:17after the Dutch thing to me,
0:13:19like in my mind of like what they will and won't do.
0:13:22But I feel like the one they are least likely to do
0:13:25on their own now is sideloading,
0:13:27just because of their rhetoric,
0:13:28which is, as you say, like, if we allow sideloading,
0:13:32all of our phones will just implode.
0:13:34It's impossible, they will be destroyed, you know?
0:13:37Like something will get inside of them
0:13:39and kill all the phones.
0:13:40Like this is a point what they're saying.
0:13:42And I just, so to me, like I can't imagine them now
0:13:47turning around, even in true Apple style and being like,
0:13:50hey, we've worked out how to do this.
0:13:52Because it's not gonna be, if they do,
0:13:54if they are forced to do this,
0:13:56which I think is actually becoming more likely,
0:13:59like some of the laws that are in, I've been,
0:14:01I pay attention to Ben Thompson,
0:14:04most of this kind of stuff,
0:14:05because he reads the things so I don't have to.
0:14:09Those laws that we were talking about
0:14:10that were passing through Senate committees
0:14:12have been changing and seem to be getting better.
0:14:15And like something might happen here,
0:14:17which is odd and strange,
0:14:19and it's not gonna go well if they're forced to do it.
0:14:21Like it's just not good.
0:14:22We've seen this, you know,
0:14:24we're seeing this already around the world, right?
0:14:26That they are,
0:14:27Apple are not following the spirit of decisions, right?
0:14:33They are trying to weasel their way through them instead.
0:14:38And so I just, even though, as you said,
0:14:42they have a proven model for this,
0:14:45that they have run for how long?
0:14:4820 years, 30 years, which is the Mac, right?
0:14:51- Right.
0:14:52- The way Mac software works.
0:14:53And then maybe for the last 10 years or whatever,
0:14:55with the Mac App Store.
0:14:57How long has the Mac App Store been around?
0:14:58- 14 years.
0:14:59- 14 years. - Oh, the Mac App Store.
0:15:00- Yeah.
0:15:01- Yeah, 10 years, eight years. - Say 10 years.
0:15:04And that system, and they've only made it stronger
0:15:06and stronger over time, right?
0:15:08in the way that they're doing things.
0:15:09Where we have this app store,
0:15:11you put it through here and it's all taken care of.
0:15:13Or if you want to distribute outside,
0:15:14you've got to do this,
0:15:15and then you've got to do this,
0:15:16and then you've got to do this, right?
0:15:17And it's like, notarize this way,
0:15:19and you've got to do this.
0:15:20And then if you want to do a kernel extension,
0:15:22well now it's going to be a whole big thing, right?
0:15:24So they are actually continuing
0:15:26to make Mac software distribution safer for consumers.
0:15:31- Right, outside of the Mac App Store.
0:15:34- Exactly, from outside of the Mac App Store.
0:15:36at the same time that they're saying,
0:15:38well, I mean, you can't do it on the phone.
0:15:39I mean, what, just is, it's impossible.
0:15:42There is no safe way to do it.
0:15:45It's just such a, it's so strange.
0:15:46It's like, are you familiar with the phrase,
0:15:48like talking out two sides of your face?
0:15:50- Yes, sure.
0:15:51- This is what they're doing when it comes to sideloading
0:15:53and I find it very peculiar.
0:15:55- I don't know the truth of what's going on inside Apple,
0:15:59but I believe that this entire Mac thing
0:16:05is being done with an eye toward what they would have to do
0:16:09if they did it on iOS, right?
0:16:11- Oh, for sure, yeah.
0:16:12- Right, I feel like they wanna make Mac OS more secure
0:16:16and more like iOS, I get that,
0:16:19but they gotta also be thinking,
0:16:21what if we were forced to do this on iOS?
0:16:24Because this is what they would do.
0:16:25- Even though I have such little faith in them
0:16:28for some of this stuff recently,
0:16:30I know that there's smart people over there, obviously,
0:16:33So I refuse to believe they do not have people
0:16:36coming up with systems.
0:16:38- It may be a wink, wink, nudge, nudge thing too.
0:16:40It's like, yes, for the Mac, we're going to do,
0:16:43you know, signed and we're gonna have it notarized
0:16:47and like, yes, that is for the Mac, right?
0:16:51The Mac.
0:16:52But that in the background, they're like,
0:16:53well, if we need to do this on iOS,
0:16:54this is how we're gonna do it.
0:16:55And so it's there.
0:16:57And there are other tactics that are not yet on the Mac.
0:17:01Like the Mac, you can do anything, right?
0:17:04You can literally run anything.
0:17:06Apple, it depends on what the laws are,
0:17:08but Apple could say, you know, you can't run anything.
0:17:12You have to have it signed.
0:17:13Like we have to, for security reasons, have it signed.
0:17:16And if the laws, - I would prefer that.
0:17:18- If the laws that force them to do this say,
0:17:20that's okay, like to stop malware and to whatever else,
0:17:23we'll let you do this notarization system.
0:17:25But if, but you know, basically you're gonna get sued
0:17:28if you use it as a de facto approval process.
0:17:31you need to just be looking at it for security reasons,
0:17:33but they could do that
0:17:34and then not have completely unsigned random things
0:17:38able to run, they could do that.
0:17:40- I guess they're moving that way
0:17:41for the Mac now though, right?
0:17:43Like, is it not coming?
0:17:46- Well, no, so the Mac,
0:17:48and I had somebody from Apple tell me,
0:17:51or actually, no, it was in a session.
0:17:53Somebody at Apple said,
0:17:54you will never not be able to run software
0:17:57you want to run on the Mac.
0:17:59What you have to do is go through those dialogue boxes
0:18:02that say, "You may die."
0:18:03And then you click on that app and it goes,
0:18:05"This app may kill you."
0:18:07So we're not gonna let you,
0:18:08you should probably put it in the trash.
0:18:11Before it explodes, you should put it in the trashcan.
0:18:14And then you go in and you have to set your settings
0:18:17and you have to like right click and choose open
0:18:19and get another thing that says,
0:18:20"I told you this might explode and you may die.
0:18:23"Do you want to die?"
0:18:25And then you go, "Okay."
0:18:26And then it runs, right?
0:18:28So you can do it, but they put the barriers there,
0:18:30but you can do it.
0:18:31On iOS, depending on what the laws are forcing them to do,
0:18:35they could say, "Well, we're not gonna do that.
0:18:37It has to be signed.
0:18:39It has to be notarized.
0:18:41We're not gonna let it run
0:18:42if we don't know anything about what it is."
0:18:45And as a user, the fact is,
0:18:47there are whole classes of apps that don't run on iOS,
0:18:49that I would like to run on iOS.
0:18:51I have an Apple II emulator on my Mac, right?
0:18:53It's great.
0:18:54And none of that stuff,
0:18:56the dolphin emulator that you can put on iOS,
0:18:59but it's really hard to do
0:19:01and then play old Nintendo games and stuff.
0:19:04Like, I understand legally why Apple
0:19:07doesn't allow that stuff in the App Store,
0:19:09but it makes the platform worse.
0:19:11And, you know, so there's all sorts of stuff
0:19:14that I think could function outside of the App Store
0:19:17that would be worth it for some people to install.
0:19:20And I'd like to see that.
0:19:21But I also think that the App Store,
0:19:24freed of the bad publicity of rejecting apps,
0:19:27I actually kind of like the idea that the app store
0:19:30might be a little bolder in rejecting apps.
0:19:33'Cause I know this is like a wild thing to say,
0:19:35but like there's a lot of apps in the app store
0:19:37that should have been rejected that are bad,
0:19:39that are like bad.
0:19:40Not, I'm not saying like apps that it's all
0:19:43a misunderstanding, but like that are bad
0:19:45that I believe really do get in
0:19:46because Apple has this hands-off attitude.
0:19:49I know all the indie developers get the hands on them
0:19:51because they're trying to do interesting things,
0:19:53but there's a lot of garbage that just goes through
0:19:55that maybe in another scenario,
0:19:57Apple would be like, "Bah, we're cleaning up."
0:19:59Maybe I'm being that,
0:20:00if I'm being too optimistic about anything,
0:20:02that is the thing,
0:20:03which is maybe that Apple would take more care
0:20:06with the App Store
0:20:07because it may be true based on the evidence
0:20:09that we've seen so far
0:20:10that Apple just doesn't want to exert any effort
0:20:12on the App Store.
0:20:13But I would hope that if the App Store had competition,
0:20:16the App Store might actually need to get its act together
0:20:18a little bit more.
0:20:19I don't know.
0:20:20I think it was a fun way of thinking of it,
0:20:24to imagine that world where the App Store
0:20:26is no longer the end all be all,
0:20:27because it really does change how you view it.
0:20:30If it's not, you know, an App Store rejection
0:20:33is an inconvenience or a frustration,
0:20:35but not a death sentence.
0:20:36And that's really my final point is,
0:20:38I have definitely heard some developers say
0:20:40that they are reluctant to develop anything for iOS,
0:20:42because if it gets rejected from the App Store,
0:20:45there's literally nothing they can do.
0:20:47They can't take that code and reuse it.
0:20:49They can't move it.
0:20:50I think they could probably put it on the Mac,
0:20:53use a catalyst, but that's it.
0:20:56And that suppresses development, right?
0:21:00Like people who are afraid that they're gonna spend
0:21:03two years and millions of dollars
0:21:05or whatever the project is on a thing for iOS,
0:21:08if it's like at all possible
0:21:10that Apple's just gonna reject it, just don't do it.
0:21:13And then the platform is worse.
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0:22:49You wrote an iMac. I'm calling this the iMac Pro wish list. I think you were a little bit more
0:22:54reserved than me. You just called it the next generation iMac wish list, but I'm calling this
0:22:58an iMac Pro wish list because let's just call it what it is. It's the computer to replace your
0:23:04computer. I don't know for sure that that's what it's going to be. And it doesn't, I mean,
0:23:10in some ways it doesn't matter because it's just a name, right? So we can call it the iMac Pro if we
0:23:14want to, but it's the big iMac. I really have been calling it the big iMac. Yeah, iMac Pro.
0:23:19And I do genuinely stand by, I think they would do that.
0:23:22I think it would be strange to me.
0:23:24- I agree.
0:23:25- To give it, especially if they give it a lot of the stuff
0:23:27that you want it to have.
0:23:28- So my only hesitation is there,
0:23:32I think there's a scenario where they do,
0:23:34they do a version of it with colors
0:23:37and then there's the high end version that's black basically.
0:23:42And that's the iMac Pro, where they split it.
0:23:44And there's two versions of essentially the same computer,
0:23:47but like the high-end model is like the super tricked out version.
0:23:51It feels to me more likely.
0:23:53The reason I say this is that if you look at that 24-inch iMac,
0:23:55there are two of them, right?
0:23:57There are really two of them.
0:23:59There's the one with two ports.
0:24:01That's, you know, it's the de-contented version of the 24.
0:24:04Two ports, no ethernet on the cable.
0:24:07Like it's the kind of like low-price leader
0:24:10of the 24-inch iMac.
0:24:11And then there's like the real one.
0:24:13- Well, they've been doing this a little bit more now though,
0:24:14right?
0:24:15- There are the laptops which have the bin chips
0:24:18in them and stuff.
0:24:19- Exactly.
0:24:20Well, yeah, right.
0:24:21I mean, chip variation, but like now there's literally
0:24:24like port variation on the back, right?
0:24:27Which is even more than the chip variation
0:24:31that's just the internal.
0:24:32So I think it's possible that there could be
0:24:35multiple big iMacs and I'm not sure
0:24:39whether they wouldn't call them all iMac Pro anyway,
0:24:42but like I do think there's a scenario here
0:24:44where there's sort of two variants
0:24:46and there's the like regular one that is a big screen
0:24:49but it's just got the M1 and it's got fewer ports
0:24:52and it's just the iMac 27 inch or 30 inch or whatever it is.
0:24:56And then there's the iMac Pro
0:24:58which is the one with the Pro chips
0:25:00and lots of ports and is much more expensive.
0:25:02They could break it that way.
0:25:05And I think my argument if I'm inside Apple working on this,
0:25:09if I'm one of the people we've interviewed
0:25:12over the years about this,
0:25:14My argument would be lots of regular people
0:25:16buy the Big iMac and like the Big iMac.
0:25:18And so we should offer a cheaper version
0:25:22that doesn't feel like a pro product for them
0:25:25so that they have something to buy.
0:25:28So I think it's a possibility.
0:25:30- I agree with you, but on iPad,
0:25:33do you want the biggest one?
0:25:34Pro's the only option currently with the iPhone.
0:25:37Want the biggest one?
0:25:39Well, you gotta go pro.
0:25:40- Pro. - You know?
0:25:41- Yeah, I hear you.
0:25:42So maybe that's the modern Apple take is like,
0:25:44look, Pro doesn't mean anything really
0:25:47other than it's the nice one.
0:25:48And so let's just lean into it.
0:25:50And that's fine.
0:25:52I think that's the simplest solution.
0:25:53And probably the simplest one is the best one.
0:25:55But then again, my counter is there are two 24-inch iMacs
0:25:58'cause there's the one that just has two ports
0:26:00and is kind of sad because they wanted a cheap one.
0:26:03Maybe you don't need a cheap one of the big one.
0:26:06- Yeah, and I actually kind of liked that they did that
0:26:08because it meant that they didn't need
0:26:09to keep the old iMac around.
0:26:11- Oh yes, for sure.
0:26:13- Which is what they do with all of their other products.
0:26:16So I'm actually pleased that they have that model.
0:26:18'Cause also it's still a great computer,
0:26:19it just has less ports.
0:26:20- Oh yeah, I'm not displeased with it.
0:26:22I just think that's an interesting example of them
0:26:25taking the time to do a, you know,
0:26:29the extra work to make this second variation of it,
0:26:33even though we call it one product, it is actually two.
0:26:35So they could play that game again, even, you know,
0:26:38will they? I don't know, maybe.
0:26:40And to your point, even if they play that game,
0:26:43they might still call them both iMac Pro.
0:26:45- So I'm gonna free you a list here and talk about it.
0:26:48You don't want it to be too big, right?
0:26:50Now I'm like in camp of big screen.
0:26:53I want a 30 inch iMac, that's what I want.
0:26:57- Yeah, I, you know, what I said in the article
0:26:59is sometimes 27 inch feels too big for me.
0:27:03And I say that because I see people
0:27:05with these wide screen displays and multiple displays.
0:27:07And it's like, there are times where I've got a window
0:27:09in the upper corner of my iMac where it's like too far away
0:27:14and I got to move it into the middle
0:27:16so that I can work on it.
0:27:17Like it's way up there.
0:27:19- You need to put your distance lenses on.
0:27:22- Yeah, I got to drive over there,
0:27:25see what's going on, drive back,
0:27:26move my keyboard over there.
0:27:28So, and yet at the same time, there are times,
0:27:31especially when I'm doing video stuff
0:27:33where I like switch into more space mode,
0:27:36try to shrink everything down
0:27:38in order to get more stuff on that screen.
0:27:40So where I came down to,
0:27:41'cause originally I was gonna be like,
0:27:43I don't want it bigger, 27 inches is just fine.
0:27:46And what turned me around is the argument
0:27:50that the 24 inch iMac is packing a lot more display
0:27:55in something, in a device that doesn't feel enormous,
0:28:00doesn't feel like it got massively bigger
0:28:02because they reduced the bezels and all of that.
0:28:04- This iMac's tiny, really.
0:28:06I think that is the strongest argument
0:28:09for them going above 27 is that they've decided,
0:28:13as they have with many other devices that they've done,
0:28:16that what you do is you keep the size of the device similar,
0:28:20but by shrinking all the bezels,
0:28:21the screen just becomes bigger.
0:28:23Like, I like that. That's a good idea.
0:28:25- I will also add for myself,
0:28:27if we're talking about screen,
0:28:29ProMotion.
0:28:30- Ah, sure. - I would like ProMotion.
0:28:34- I mean, I think you mentioned mini LED, right?
0:28:36That it would be nice if we could have that,
0:28:38like why not if we're doing a wish list?
0:28:40- I mean, those are less necessary for me,
0:28:42but yeah, the dream would be ProMotion mini,
0:28:46essentially the dream is the MacBook Pro display
0:28:50on a big computer, which is I think a big request,
0:28:53'cause that's a spectacular display
0:28:55and spreading that over 27 to 30 inches,
0:28:58it would be amazing.
0:29:00I won't be super disappointed if that doesn't happen,
0:29:02but it would be great.
0:29:03It would undeniably be great.
0:29:05- Yeah, and I would also add in
0:29:07nano texture display option.
0:29:08- Sure.
0:29:09- Because I mean, they've already done that on the iMac.
0:29:11- I put that in there for you.
0:29:12I put that in the story just for you.
0:29:14(laughing)
0:29:15It is there on the iMac now, so why not?
0:29:17- Like I don't even know if I would want it.
0:29:19Like I have seen a pro display with that
0:29:23and I thought it looked really cool.
0:29:25- You get a cloth, there's a polishing cloth.
0:29:28- I have the polishing cloth anyway,
0:29:30'cause I'm one of those fools that bought one.
0:29:33just, I don't even, I didn't even buy it when it was a meme.
0:29:35I was just, when I bought my Mac Pro, I was like,
0:29:37I don't know what this is, but I'll get it.
0:29:39And it just sits here.
0:29:39I don't ever do anything with it.
0:29:41But I, so I would love just to look at that again
0:29:45and maybe weigh that up.
0:29:46It could be a cool addition and it's, you know,
0:29:49a fun little thing that they could do.
0:29:51You want more ports, including USB-A ports.
0:29:55I agree with you, by the way.
0:29:56- Yeah, well, there are USB-A ports
0:29:58on the Apple Silicon Mac mini.
0:30:00- Yep.
0:30:01And I will remind everybody, my iMac Pro has four Thunderbolt
0:30:05and four USB-C, and four USB-A on the back.
0:30:10Eight USB ports on the back of this iMac Pro.
0:30:14And you know what?
0:30:15I use them.
0:30:16I use them.
0:30:17It's really nice to not need a dongle
0:30:19to plug in a USB-A device.
0:30:21This is a Pro system.
0:30:22It's big.
0:30:23It's got lots of room back there.
0:30:25So I think, yeah, I think lots, lots, lots of ports.
0:30:30That's what I'm asking for.
0:30:31I want an SD card slot like I have on the iMac Pro.
0:30:34I want that.
0:30:35And I want, you know, ideally I'd like four and four
0:30:39of USB-C style and USB-A style.
0:30:43And you know, it's not unreasonable.
0:30:46There are a bunch of ports.
0:30:48Even the M1 Mac mini has USB-A and USB-C ports.
0:30:53So I think, and there are four, for the record,
0:30:56the 24 inch has four USB Thunderbolt ports on the back,
0:31:01other than the two port model,
0:31:02but the bigger one has four.
0:31:05Whether there will be eight or not, it seems unlikely.
0:31:07And yet I'm gonna advocate to keep some USB-A back there
0:31:10because really why not?
0:31:12It adds compatibility. - Even if that was like two.
0:31:14- There's no cost, yeah, two USB-A.
0:31:17It adds compatibility.
0:31:18There's no cost appreciably to it.
0:31:21You did it on the Mac mini.
0:31:23There's value in a pro desktop
0:31:25of having port flexibility.
0:31:27So why not do it?
0:31:29- It's like Apple, what if we promise you
0:31:31this is the last time you'll need to do it?
0:31:32Will you do it?
0:31:33- Right now on the back of my iMac Pro,
0:31:36right at this moment,
0:31:38I have two USB-C plugged in and two USB-A plugged in.
0:31:42And I could convert those, but I didn't have to.
0:31:46- Last time, just put two on there, last time.
0:31:49The next time you redesign the iMac,
0:31:50you'll probably have moved on to something else
0:31:52of it in USB-C, right?
0:31:54but like, we're probably okay by then.
0:31:56- But like, I like the practicality of it,
0:31:58and it's something that, remember,
0:31:59Apple didn't do on their laptops, this practicality,
0:32:01but they did with that Mac Mini, which is,
0:32:04yeah, let's just put some USB-A on there.
0:32:05Like, let's just do it. - I wouldn't expect
0:32:07or ask for USB-A on a laptop now.
0:32:10- No, no, but on a desktop where you've got all that room,
0:32:13and even on the Mac Mini where they didn't have
0:32:14all that room, like, just the flexibility
0:32:16of having that stuff that's laying around,
0:32:18and it really is as simple as, I have this thing,
0:32:21I can plug it in instead of I have this thing,
0:32:24oh, let me go get an adapter.
0:32:26Now I've got my adapter, now I'll plug it in.
0:32:28And that happens to me all the time.
0:32:30- Like look, if they announced this computer without USB-A,
0:32:33I'm not gonna be mad.
0:32:34Like I've already moved away.
0:32:35I've got docks and dongles and all sorts.
0:32:37- But this is my wishlist, right?
0:32:38I would like them to just embrace it, embrace it.
0:32:40Maybe it's three and two or four and two
0:32:44or something like that.
0:32:45That's fine.
0:32:46The Mac Mini has two USB-A, but like, I think it's worth it.
0:32:50- You even mentioned like put them on the power brick, right?
0:32:52We got our friend the ethernet power brick,
0:32:54put them on there, I don't know.
0:32:55- I doubt this is gonna happen this time,
0:32:57but like for the iMac, and I know people are like,
0:32:59"Oh, you can't put USB on the power brick
0:33:01because what if it unplugs?"
0:33:04It's like, well, what if your computer unplugs?
0:33:07- If your computer unplugs, your computer's off.
0:33:09- Your computer's off anyway and it's bad, whatever.
0:33:12So unlike MagSafe on the laptops
0:33:15where you probably don't wanna put USB ports
0:33:18on the brick because then the thing pops off
0:33:22and you lose your USB devices.
0:33:23Okay, but on a desktop,
0:33:26I just want them to push that concept forward.
0:33:28It probably won't happen this time, but it's a wishlist.
0:33:31I want them to push the concept forward.
0:33:33I have a USB hub velcroed to the bottom of my desk,
0:33:36to the underside of my desk, because I need some ports.
0:33:39I need to attach things to,
0:33:42like my keyboard runs under there
0:33:44and my UPS that's got a USB port on it
0:33:48so that if the power goes out, my computer stays on,
0:33:51like it's got a USB umbilical
0:33:54that goes back to the computer.
0:33:55It's under there.
0:33:56Like having, taking the ethernet outboard
0:34:00and getting it off your desktop is a great idea,
0:34:02but really I would like some ports on that thing too.
0:34:06I really would because like I said,
0:34:08I got a USB hub under my desk.
0:34:10It's dumb.
0:34:11I would really rather attach that little brick
0:34:14and have stuff coming off of it.
0:34:15So for an iMac Pro or a big iMac,
0:34:18however you wanna call it, yeah,
0:34:20I want even more than just ethernet on there.
0:34:22I want it to be multi-use
0:34:25because that's the truth of it, right?
0:34:26Is we got lots of devices
0:34:28that we plug into these desktop computers.
0:34:30And so, you know, embrace it.
0:34:32And we don't want the,
0:34:32I mean, the argument is the same as the ethernet,
0:34:35which is I don't need this clutter.
0:34:37I don't need, I have some stuff that I need to plug in
0:34:40that I do not need on my desktop.
0:34:41So I'd rather have one nice braided cable
0:34:45going down onto the desk,
0:34:48and then what happens down there, stays down there.
0:34:51- And obviously you'd want it to be color matched,
0:34:54but will that be color?
0:34:55- I think that goes without saying, right?
0:34:57Whatever color or lack of color or boringness that they do,
0:35:00I expect it all to match.
0:35:02I would like, color is my item.
0:35:06I would like not just to have black or space gray or silver.
0:35:10I would like some color.
0:35:11I'm kind of resigned to the fact that they'll probably be
0:35:14dark, not bright eye popping colors like the 24 inch model.
0:35:19But you know what, if it's a dark blue or something like
0:35:23that, that would be cool.
0:35:24I would love to be able to pick a color of iMac
0:35:27and not have it just be entirely neutral.
0:35:31And this is the moment where everybody was like,
0:35:32"Oh, but designers need to be neutral."
0:35:34It's like, they're never gonna not offer it
0:35:36as a neutral color.
0:35:37There will always be a neutral color offered.
0:35:40but not all of us want that.
0:35:42So I would like colors, please.
0:35:44- I don't think I would, if it was like a pro machine,
0:35:50I don't think I would want the exact color options
0:35:52that are on the M1, but a variety of interesting colors
0:35:57is what I would want.
0:35:58Like I do like the kind of reserved color palette,
0:36:01provided there is a color palette, you know?
0:36:05- I think you're right.
0:36:07I expect that instead of that very light gray bezel
0:36:11that goes around the 24-inch iMacs,
0:36:13my guess is that it will be a dark bezel
0:36:16that goes around these larger iMacs
0:36:18because they're gonna be for pro use.
0:36:20And so the bright colors wouldn't really go with it anyway.
0:36:25And that's okay.
0:36:26Like, that's okay.
0:36:28I just want some personality injected into it.
0:36:30I think it would be a shame if--
0:36:32- Like more than one, you know?
0:36:33Like with the iPhones, they have the standard ones
0:36:36and in one color.
0:36:37"No, no, why don't we do five colors,
0:36:39"but they can be like Safari green, whatever it was called."
0:36:44And like Pacific blue. - Midnight blue.
0:36:47- But like, you know, option.
0:36:49Not like if you want color, you can get one color,
0:36:52or you can get three different grays.
0:36:55- Yeah, right.
0:36:56- That's not what I'm looking for here,
0:36:57but like variation fun.
0:36:58- There's a good wishlist item, yeah.
0:37:00- Lot of fun.
0:37:01Webcam, gotta be good, right?
0:37:05- Yeah, I'm tired of the excuses.
0:37:07I'm tired of the,
0:37:08this is the best webcam we've ever put in a Mac.
0:37:10It's 1080, but it's got a processor on it, so it's fine.
0:37:13Like that's where they are right now.
0:37:14And like, it's gotta stop.
0:37:15It's gotta stop.
0:37:16The iMac needs to have what the iPad has,
0:37:21which is the iPad has a 12 megapixel camera.
0:37:24That's a wide angle with center stage.
0:37:26And you know,
0:37:27I should be able to do very high quality video
0:37:31from this thing and I should have it auto track.
0:37:33all of that stuff needs to be there.
0:37:36Like I'm tired of the excuses.
0:37:38The iMac 24 came out the same time
0:37:41as the iPad with center stage.
0:37:43And the iMac is the perfect product for that.
0:37:46Like I would like it to do face ID.
0:37:48I would really like that.
0:37:50- I mean, we're talking wishlist.
0:37:51That would be a lot of wishlist.
0:37:53- But at the very least it needs to be that proper
0:37:57high quality front facing camera with center stage.
0:38:01- Big one for me is the ergonomics.
0:38:03- My dream would be the Pro Display's stand, you know?
0:38:08- That's half the price of the iMac right there.
0:38:12- Right, but something akin to that, you know,
0:38:14like obviously not a thousand dollar stand,
0:38:17but the flexibility of it.
0:38:19- The Pro Display rotates, right?
0:38:22And I don't think Apple needs to make a base stand
0:38:24for the iMac that will let you lift it up and turn it
0:38:27and put it in portrait orientation.
0:38:29I mean, imagine that, but they don't need to do that.
0:38:33but adjustable height stand.
0:38:36Like I think the 24 inch iMac's a little short, right?
0:38:38- Oh yeah, I have mine on one of those little riser things,
0:38:42you know? - Yeah.
0:38:43- It's too low down.
0:38:44- I asked them about it and they said,
0:38:46"Oh no, we did our research
0:38:47and we think this is the right thing."
0:38:48But I think that, but I just, I don't agree.
0:38:51I don't believe it.
0:38:52I think that they took their best shot
0:38:56and maybe they think it's the right height.
0:38:58It feels a little short to me.
0:38:59And then you've got this beautiful, fun,
0:39:00cute, colorful thing.
0:39:02and then you stick like a dictionary under it or something
0:39:04in order to get it to height, it just seems,
0:39:06it seems like a mistake.
0:39:08And so if they're gonna make a high-end iMac,
0:39:10please spring for height adjustment.
0:39:14Like displays have height adjustment.
0:39:16The iMac is a display.
0:39:18It should be adjustable.
0:39:19It's important.
0:39:20It's ergonomics.
0:39:21It's accessibility, essentially.
0:39:24They really, really need to do it right.
0:39:27- And then also what have we got?
0:39:29M1 Pro and M1 Mac specs.
0:39:31- So when you say that, is you talking like just the chips?
0:39:35- Yeah, well the chips and the RAM limits
0:39:37that come with them, right?
0:39:37So that you can have, so you can choose to go up to 32 or 64
0:39:41and then ideally, if they've got the dual M1 Macs
0:39:46ready to go for the Mac Pro,
0:39:50they could do that for this too.
0:39:51- Oh, I mean, wishlist, right?
0:39:54- Yeah, I don't know.
0:39:55Like the Mac Pro is coming eventually
0:40:00and the rumors are that they're gonna be dual
0:40:01and quad configurations, it would be interesting
0:40:03if they rolled out like a dual max configuration
0:40:05at the high end of this.
0:40:06I don't know if that's likely, but I'll throw it in there.
0:40:09But at the very least, you know, the M1 max and an iMac,
0:40:13yeah, bring it to me.
0:40:16- I guess the thing I don't know if I considered this,
0:40:18but as you're saying it, it was like,
0:40:20if they do this double M1 max chip or whatever,
0:40:24would they only do it for the Mac Pro?
0:40:26Like that's the only place it's gonna be?
0:40:29Maybe, I think in the long run,
0:40:31if they've got other pro desktop Macs,
0:40:35why not put it in there?
0:40:36That's my argument to them is,
0:40:38if you've got an iMac Pro,
0:40:39put a dual M1 Macs option in there, why not?
0:40:42Just see it, but it may not be ready.
0:40:43It may really be waiting for the Mac Pro
0:40:45to do something like a dual or a quad.
0:40:47But down the road, perhaps,
0:40:49some things like Mac Mini and iMac Pro might get those too.
0:40:54But really, honestly, that's dreaming a magical dream.
0:40:58but M1 Macs and an iMac, yes please.
0:41:02- My favorite though is your last one.
0:41:04Announced March 8th, all those,
0:41:06all those March 11 shipping March 18th.
0:41:08It's like, we don't even have an idea
0:41:10if there's even gonna be an iMac.
0:41:11You're like, no, I want it in a week.
0:41:13- It's my list, Myke, it's my list, I want it now.
0:41:16And what's the point of a wishlist
0:41:17if you can't demand the product to be made available for you.
0:41:21So that's my last item is announced March 8th,
0:41:25orders on the Friday shipping the next Friday please. Thank you.
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0:43:19I want to talk about comics a little bit.
0:43:21Okay.
0:43:22So I feel like a couple of times in my life I've been a comics person.
0:43:27So going back many, many years, this is actually fun.
0:43:30When I used to work at my bank, one of the things that I did was help people open business accounts.
0:43:38And there was once, this is probably like 15 years ago now, which is a horrible thing for me to
0:43:45consider. I have stories in my life that are 15 years old, but nevertheless.
0:43:50One of the accounts that I opened was for somebody starting a comic book shop,
0:43:54like a comic book store. And I went down to visit their store once and looked around and picked up
0:44:01some stuff. And I had some interesting superheroes, but I hadn't really read comics and I bought a
0:44:04a bunch of stuff and enjoyed it.
0:44:06And one of the things that I bought was "Civil War"
0:44:08that was recommended to me.
0:44:09Absolutely love "Marvel Civil War."
0:44:11It turned it into a great movie,
0:44:12but the comic book is still excellent in its own way.
0:44:16And then over time as well,
0:44:17like I've got moved in and out of paper comics
0:44:19and then some years ago I was reading some digital comics.
0:44:23I think probably when Comixology launched.
0:44:26And recently I've been watching a YouTube recap series
0:44:31of like Marvel and superhero movies.
0:44:34And it's just been like a fun thing that I've been watching
0:44:36and they keep referencing comic stories
0:44:38that are influencing some of the stories
0:44:41in the movies, of course.
0:44:42So it's made me think, I want to read more of them.
0:44:45Especially X-Men.
0:44:47I've never really, my only real X-Men knowledge
0:44:51comes from the Saturday Morning Cartoon show.
0:44:53Like I never read any comics.
0:44:55And I saw some of the X-Men movies,
0:44:57but like I wanted to know more about the X-Men
0:44:59for reasons that I think will be important in the future.
0:45:02So I've been digging back in again and we're kind of,
0:45:06the landscape has changed a bit, I think,
0:45:09since I last looked at comics.
0:45:10And it's actually pretty time because it's changing again.
0:45:13Like, comixology was a big thing.
0:45:15Amazon bought comixology.
0:45:17It seems like Amazon are making a bunch of changes
0:45:19to comixology, which I think some people
0:45:21were not happy about.
0:45:22Like they're doing some weird stuff.
0:45:25But I kind of wanted to know,
0:45:26like what are you doing right now?
0:45:28Do you have any recommendations?
0:45:30And I want to talk about some other stuff
0:45:31that I've been doing.
0:45:32- I haven't been reading comics as much the last,
0:45:35I don't know, six months as I was for a while there.
0:45:38I've been, I've just been reading a lot of novels lately.
0:45:42So I still have Marvel Unlimited,
0:45:44which I feel like is still getting better.
0:45:47DC apparently now has their version of that,
0:45:49that lets you like dive into their archive.
0:45:51I want to check that out someday,
0:45:53but I haven't done that yet.
0:45:54But so for Marvel, I, the nice thing about going,
0:45:58you know, a few months without reading any Marvel comics
0:46:00is that they just kind of all queue up on Marvel Unlimited
0:46:03and I can get to them whenever I want.
0:46:05I buy some comics, mostly independent comics,
0:46:08on Comixology and some other stuff
0:46:11that's like the non-Marvel stuff.
0:46:14Comixology, you know, Amazon bought them
0:46:17and everybody wants to portray it
0:46:19as like Amazon ate Comixology.
0:46:21It's not quite right.
0:46:23I mean, it's sort of true,
0:46:24but the truth is that Amazon did not have
0:46:26a lot of comics expertise
0:46:29And they installed the guy who founded Comixology,
0:46:33the CEO, as the head of comics,
0:46:35like immediately for all of Amazon,
0:46:38like not just for Comixology, but for Amazon proper.
0:46:41'Cause they knew that the Amazon comics approach
0:46:43wasn't quite right.
0:46:44And so over the last few years,
0:46:46like they've made a lot of changes to the Kindle app
0:46:50to make it better for comics and all of that.
0:46:55And I think their plan all along was to converge
0:46:59Comixology and Amazon.
0:47:01- That's coming.
0:47:04They're doing that.
0:47:05- Yeah, and if you go, they are doing that.
0:47:06And if you go to the Comixology app now,
0:47:09it is a comics reading app, but it's not the old one.
0:47:14And it really is the Kindle app.
0:47:18It feels very much like it's just the Kindle app
0:47:21with a comic reading storefront on the front or front,
0:47:24I guess list front because it's iOS you can't actually sell the comics there.
0:47:30So I think they're unifying all of that.
0:47:32I don't think that's a bad idea in the end.
0:47:34They're going to want to make one comic reading app.
0:47:35The Comixology website now here in the UK.
0:47:38I think in the UK and the US is that part of the problem is they're doing this thing
0:47:42but they're not doing it everywhere which means it's kind of shutting down in some places
0:47:47but in the UK Comixology.co.uk now takes me to Amazon.co.uk.
0:47:52lot of people signed up for subscriptions where they get the next issue automatically.
0:47:57And my understanding is that as part of this merger thing, they basically told everybody
0:48:02outside of the US, "You can't have that feature anymore." Just like, what are you doing? I don't
0:48:06know. There's a lot of stuff going on there that's kind of weird. But anyway, it is still,
0:48:10at least especially for me in the US, a convenient place to buy. I don't really want to buy comics
0:48:15from Amazon. I think, you know, we mentioned before that Apple bought that company that does
0:48:21classical music stuff, and they're gonna roll out
0:48:24an Apple Music classical basically at some point,
0:48:28or Apple classical.
0:48:29And this is a little like that,
0:48:33where comics are different enough
0:48:36that what Amazon seems to wanna do
0:48:37is have a brand that has comics
0:48:41that is dedicated to the comic reading experience.
0:48:46'Cause like, I have a Kindle app,
0:48:50but I don't want to read comics on the Kindle app.
0:48:51I want to read them in the ComiXology app.
0:48:53I want to read them in an app that's actually dedicated,
0:48:55even if the reading experience is the same,
0:48:57I don't want to go through the whole Kindle thing
0:48:59and see my Kindle books.
0:49:00I just want to see my comics.
0:49:01- Honestly, it's like having podcasts in your music app.
0:49:04It doesn't always make sense to do that.
0:49:07- No, no, thank you.
0:49:07So that's sort of what they're doing there.
0:49:11It's fine.
0:49:12I know people are up in arms about it.
0:49:14Like this is, on one level, it's not as big a deal
0:49:18as I think people are making it out to be.
0:49:19on another level, Amazon bought them.
0:49:21What did you expect?
0:49:22Of course this was gonna happen to some degree.
0:49:25I think it's gonna be okay.
0:49:27The truth though is that I also am not, I'm just not,
0:49:31I wish I had comics to recommend to you,
0:49:33but I just have not been reading a lot of new stuff
0:49:35the last few years.
0:49:36Saga just started up again, so I think I need to go,
0:49:38or announce that they're starting up again,
0:49:40so I'm gonna need to get back on the Saga train.
0:49:44But I have not been reading new comics the last six months.
0:49:47For me at the moment, I'm really only that interested in Marvel comics.
0:49:52This is just what I know and it's what I like and there's so much stuff I haven't
0:49:56read that I'm good with that.
0:49:57Partly because I bought Adina a Marvel Unlimited subscription a couple of years ago and so
0:50:02I'm just signed into that account on my iPad as well and I'm just reading some stuff
0:50:07that she's not reading.
0:50:08Like we're reading completely different types of things.
0:50:11And the Marvel Unlimited, I actually kind of like that experience and I think it's
0:50:14pretty cool.
0:50:15How long do you know roughly like how long do you have to wait for new comics to come
0:50:20to Marvel on the way?
0:50:21Oh last time I checked I think it was three months.
0:50:24Right.
0:50:25I mean.
0:50:26That makes sense.
0:50:27I think it was six.
0:50:28I think it might be three now, four.
0:50:30But the truth is like if you're if you're behind and you stay behind then new comics
0:50:35are being released every week.
0:50:36It's just that you're behind the rest of it.
0:50:38There's so much stuff that I could and want to read I don't really care about being up
0:50:42today right?
0:50:43So like I'm reading through House of M, Powers of M right now.
0:50:48Oh wow, that's way back there.
0:50:49Yeah, because there's a bunch of stuff, there's that classic stuff I've just never read and
0:50:52would like to read and it's a fascinating series.
0:50:55Yeah, there's so much X-Men stuff and it's so confusing.
0:50:58What I like, they have these like curated lists and starting points in the Marvel Unlimited
0:51:04app and I've been like going through that.
0:51:07You said House of M, but do you mean House of X, Powers of X, Powers of X?
0:51:12of 10. Is that what it is powers of 10? Yeah it's a well it's a play on it's like a very
0:51:18for Apple people it's even extra confusing. Yeah that's really interesting that's from
0:51:21a couple years ago where they basically reset the whole X-Men scenario and and put them
0:51:26in a new place yeah I love I love that that was a that was a really fun intertwined series
0:51:31I like that one a lot. It was two comics and they have like a weird reading order and in
0:51:35a great way that like in the back of the issues they show you the suggested reading order
0:51:40which is like it's like a very funny thing but I like it it's like I read some of this stuff like
0:51:44and it's so incredible it's like these people just build these entire worlds and all these walls.
0:51:48Jonathan Hickman who wrote that he has a very particular style I really like his work he is
0:51:55he's a sci-fi oriented I would say comic book writer and so his stories tend to be a little
0:52:04more sci-fi than some of the other superhero titles that are out there. I really liked,
0:52:10he did a run on new Avengers and Avengers that led to Secret Wars. Okay, Secret Wars is one that I
0:52:19also have in my... again, because what I like is there are some big comic events, right, where it's
0:52:25spread across like six series. Right, but there's a reading list. They create the reading lists,
0:52:30And so like I've saved some of those reading lists as well.
0:52:32- I recommend looking at Hickman's Avengers
0:52:36and New Avengers as part of that.
0:52:37And they probably have that in a reading list too,
0:52:39'cause it really does sort of start there
0:52:41and then build to this event.
0:52:43And the idea is that all the parallel universes
0:52:47are colliding and annihilating each other
0:52:49and that goes on in New Avengers,
0:52:50especially for quite a while.
0:52:53And like I love those kind of widescreen,
0:52:56wild idea, sci-fi kind of thing.
0:52:59So that was a fun thing.
0:53:00And then Hickman coming off of that went and did this,
0:53:02let's reinvent the X-Men as having their own country
0:53:06and building up this whole new system.
0:53:09And they have like the ability to clone themselves.
0:53:11And it's just these wild ideas
0:53:13and told in a chopped up narrative
0:53:15'cause the powers of 10, the whole idea is you're shifting
0:53:17from like now to one year from now to 10 years from now
0:53:20to a hundred years from now to a thousand years from now.
0:53:23And like what's going on in all those different timelines.
0:53:25And yeah, that's good stuff.
0:53:26I like that a lot. - My secret invasion
0:53:28Uh, uh, reading this starts with New Avengers 31.
0:53:32That's the reading order.
0:53:35So it's definitely in there, which is cool.
0:53:37Yep.
0:53:37But, and like, I kind of just like this thing that Marvel's doing.
0:53:42Like just this, it's effective like a Netflix thing, right?
0:53:45It's just like, here's your streaming service for comic books.
0:53:48Just give us an amount of money every year and you can just go
0:53:52in and read whatever you want.
0:53:53And if DC does it, like maybe I'll get it, like I'll check
0:53:56out the DC one eventually too.
0:53:57Like, I think it's a smart move because there's so much back catalog stuff.
0:54:03Like the idea of the comicsology for me now doesn't really make so much sense, especially
0:54:09like the need to own it.
0:54:10Like I don't need, I actually, I don't need to own digital comics.
0:54:13Like I'm good, you know, like my, my kind of mental model for that stuff has changed
0:54:18a lot now where I don't really feel like I need any ownership over it all.
0:54:25Like it's just streaming content to me now.
0:54:27- I agree, and I don't know what their financial model is,
0:54:30right, and I want them to,
0:54:32I want the people who make comics to succeed,
0:54:34and I do buy comics that are like,
0:54:37I'm not buying Marvel comics,
0:54:38but I am buying from like more indie publishers,
0:54:40because that's how you get that stuff,
0:54:42and I know that it matters to them.
0:54:44And a lot of the, even the indie publishers,
0:54:47you know, week one, it might cost 4.99,
0:54:49and week two, it costs 2.99, right,
0:54:51where they're like, they're trying to get the people
0:54:53who are super into it and wanna buy it immediately,
0:54:56and they charge them extra.
0:54:57And then sometimes they discount it after a few weeks
0:55:00for everybody else.
0:55:00So it's a lot cheaper to get caught up.
0:55:04So I want them to do well, I don't know,
0:55:05but I agree that the Netflix model
0:55:07of paying a subscription fee
0:55:08and just having access to a comic library is pretty great.
0:55:11When you finish, by the way, House of X Powers of 10,
0:55:15The Incomparable, 502, 100 episodes ago,
0:55:18was all about those.
0:55:20- Oh, amazing.
0:55:21I guess that's the fun thing.
0:55:22I'll be able to go and listen to some old episodes
0:55:25of the incomparable, which I've skipped.
0:55:27It's funny, I just Googled, I was like,
0:55:29"Oh, what about the DC one?"
0:55:30Yeah, no, it's in the US only.
0:55:32- Yeah.
0:55:32- You own it, it's yours!
0:55:34I don't understand it. - I know.
0:55:35- I don't get it. - I don't know.
0:55:36- Nobody else is doing it.
0:55:37It's not like there's another company
0:55:39who has your streaming comic rights or whatever, you know?
0:55:42Just like, just make it available, DC.
0:55:44Like, this is your, or Warner, I guess.
0:55:48I don't even know who it is anymore,
0:55:49but this is your content, you know?
0:55:51Come on, just make it available to me.
0:55:54You know, I'm into it.
0:55:55It's like, and then I want to do a bunch of Spider-Man stuff.
0:55:57Love Spider-Man.
0:55:58Do you have any Spider-Man recommendations for me?
0:56:00- I say start from Ultimate Spider-Man number one.
0:56:07It's great.
0:56:09That's my favorite comic,
0:56:10favorite Marvel comic of the last 20 years
0:56:13is Ultimate Spider-Man by Brian Michael Bendis.
0:56:16- Oh, I've read Ultimate.
0:56:17I've read some of it before, but a long, long time ago.
0:56:20- Read the whole, the whole thing is there
0:56:22and it comes to builds to a climax
0:56:24and it introduces Miles Morales.
0:56:26And then there's the more then then it becomes
0:56:28the Miles Morales Spider-Man comic after that.
0:56:31So there's a lot of good stuff in that.
0:56:35It's like a hundred and.
0:56:36- A hundred and thirty three issues for ultimate.
0:56:39- And then one of my favorite comics of all time
0:56:40is Invincible which is from Image.
0:56:43So you can you can buy those.
0:56:45- Yeah I read a lot of that.
0:56:46- I love that too.
0:56:47- On comic solitaire.
0:56:48- But I have nothing super recent.
0:56:50There's a lot of Brian K. Vaughan stuff, Paper Girls,
0:56:54I read a while ago, that was really good.
0:56:56Has some good Apple references in it, believe it or not.
0:57:00It does.
0:57:01Yeah.
0:57:02- So the part of me talking about this
0:57:04is I want recommendations from the Upgradients.
0:57:08Like I want people to give me this stuff that they've got.
0:57:12Like, I'm just, I don't know, I feel like this is a,
0:57:16I made lots of references before on the show
0:57:18that like I don't really enjoy reading.
0:57:21Which is true, I just don't,
0:57:22I don't really enjoy reading novels, that kind of stuff.
0:57:25'Cause I kind of find it hard to keep my attention.
0:57:28I do not have this problem with comics.
0:57:30And it is kind of funny 'cause reading through the,
0:57:33like the powers of 10,
0:57:35there's like, there are these pages of text.
0:57:38I was like, I have to read them like three times.
0:57:40- Yeah, he does the whole thing
0:57:41where he's got like little readouts of stuff, yeah.
0:57:44- Which is cool information, but like I have to sit there
0:57:47and I have to read that three times.
0:57:48But the comic part, I'm like, no problem.
0:57:50I'm like going through, I'm on top of it.
0:57:52But as soon as you give me a paragraph of text,
0:57:54I'm like, oh man.
0:57:55I don't know what it is.
0:57:56It just like, it takes a while for me
0:57:58to have to go over it a couple of times.
0:57:59Like, right, I'm on it.
0:58:00Now I can continue.
0:58:02So it's fun.
0:58:03Yeah, I'm enjoying it.
0:58:04It's like, I don't know.
0:58:05I'm just-- it feels like just a fun thing
0:58:07to get back into again.
0:58:09And the iPad Mini, so good.
0:58:12So good.
0:58:13The only thing it's not great for is the landscape.
0:58:16- Yeah, 'cause it's a little too small.
0:58:19- Yeah.
0:58:19- But you gotta zoom in and pan around for that.
0:58:22- By and large, it's great.
0:58:23Like the iPad mini is really, really good.
0:58:25Like I remember when, even on like the regular,
0:58:28like I remember on previous iPad minis,
0:58:30do you kind of have to use the zooming in
0:58:32on the panels features, 'cause it just wasn't good enough.
0:58:37- Right.
0:58:38- But now I can read all of that.
0:58:40Catherine is asking if I read Matt Fractions.
0:58:43- Matt Fractions. - I have read that.
0:58:44I read that back in the day.
0:58:46I have a hard copy of that one.
0:58:48- Yeah. - Sent me up nicely
0:58:49for Hawkeye, which I enjoyed a lot.
0:58:51So yeah, comics.
0:58:53- Comics, it's fun.
0:58:55Look at us having fun
0:58:56and not talking about legislation and regulation.
0:59:00- Yeah, see, we can talk about sideloading,
0:59:02but we can also talk about comic books.
0:59:05- Look, we have lots of shades here.
0:59:07Lots of colors.
0:59:09Lots of, hopefully, iMac colors, maybe.
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1:00:27We have some #askupgrade questions.
1:00:31Matt asks, I feel like I'd quite like to own a retro Mac having listened to Jason talk
1:00:36about it but I have a limited amount of space available. What do you think is the smallest
1:00:40retro Mac that I could get?
1:00:42I'm gonna say that practically, it depends on what you want from your retro Mac. Practically
1:00:48speaking one of the compact Macs from the early days is probably best. Whether it's
1:00:54an SE or a classic or a color classic, something that is classic 2, something that has its
1:01:01own screen built into it and I know that means it's bulkier in a way but it also means
1:01:05you don't have to have an external monitor. And the problem with a lot of early Macs is
1:01:09that it's actually hard to get external video out to a modern display that you might have
1:01:14hanging around. You know, if you find a 2ci with a monitor sitting on it at a garage sale,
1:01:19you could do that. That would work too. But I would say one of the nice things about those
1:01:23classic compact Macs is that they are compact. And so when I, I've been struggling to get
1:01:29video out of a bunch of old Macs, but it's not a problem with the classic Mac. You could
1:01:35look for a power book, the problem there is that the hard drives die and then you're trying
1:01:41to take it apart. There are a lot of issues there. But again, a Mac with its own screen
1:01:48is nice. That helps keep the size down. If you want to go a little more modern than that,
1:01:56I don't know, you got the G4 Cube, you can find those. Or an iMac. Again, some of those
1:02:04The G3 iMacs are big, the G4 iMacs are smaller,
1:02:07but like if you have an old all-in-one
1:02:10that brings its own screen, especially, that's helpful.
1:02:14Otherwise you're gonna need to find like a screen.
1:02:17Like I got a G4 Cube and a screen and they came together
1:02:21where it's got ADC on it, so you just plug it in
1:02:25and the screen works and the G4 works.
1:02:27So that's my advice though, is avoid having to adapt
1:02:33to an external monitor because you might be saying,
1:02:37I'm gonna save space by having it be an external monitor
1:02:39that I already own, but you may not be able to get there.
1:02:43So that's my best advice for now for Matt.
1:02:46- Sekou asks, Jason, do you use any form of spell
1:02:51or grammar checker prior to posting an article?
1:02:54- I try to run a spell check
1:02:56and sometimes I will run Grammarly.
1:03:02I signed up for a year of Grammarly just to try it out
1:03:04because I, you know, writing on six colors,
1:03:08you don't have a safety net.
1:03:11I don't have a copy editor who's gonna go through my pieces.
1:03:14And I also am not gonna wait to post them until, you know,
1:03:18two days later because somebody has read it through.
1:03:21So I, Grammarly is interesting because it finds,
1:03:26it's better than a spell checker at finding words
1:03:30that are typos contextually, which I'm very impressed by.
1:03:35So it'll say, well, this is not the word
1:03:39you wanna use here.
1:03:40And it turns out it's a typo
1:03:42and a spell checker won't do that.
1:03:43And it will occasionally flag something that I'll agree with
1:03:46in terms of there should be a comma here,
1:03:48or you should remove this phrase.
1:03:49The challenge I have with Grammarly
1:03:51is that it flags a lot of stuff that I just,
1:03:54it's trying to have me write a business letter
1:03:57and that's not what I'm writing.
1:03:58And so there's a lot of stuff that it flags as,
1:04:00you might, you want to rephrase this or change this.
1:04:03And I'm like, nope, that's what I,
1:04:05that's exactly what I meant.
1:04:06And that's frustrating,
1:04:07but I do try to run longer pieces through Grammarly
1:04:11just because it provides a little bit better safety net
1:04:14than a straight up spell check.
1:04:16- Yeah.
1:04:17- Even though I find it frustrating
1:04:18because it catches so much more stuff
1:04:21that I don't consider wrong.
1:04:23- I guess it's trying to remove your voice a little bit.
1:04:26- It is because like I said,
1:04:27And it's got, they've tried, they've got settings to like,
1:04:30it's more informal and not a business letter and all that.
1:04:32But the fact is that, yeah,
1:04:34it still throws up a whole bunch of stuff
1:04:36that I just don't agree with.
1:04:38And it gets confused by some technical terms
1:04:41and things like that.
1:04:42But the real goal there, and I don't use,
1:04:44I don't write in apps with a grammar checker.
1:04:47So I can't tell you, I'm not in Microsoft Word or whatever,
1:04:49but so I can't compare.
1:04:52But I do like the idea that Grammarly is,
1:04:56is looking at things a little more holistically.
1:05:00And so it can find those dumb mistakes
1:05:02where I have typed the wrong word,
1:05:04or I've made a typo into a word that is in the dictionary,
1:05:07but is totally the wrong use.
1:05:09Or if I don't have a piece of punctuation,
1:05:12or if I left a fragment in that I meant to change,
1:05:14and now it doesn't make sense,
1:05:16all that stuff gets flagged
1:05:18in a way that a spelling checker wouldn't.
1:05:19So I have been experimenting with that,
1:05:22and I probably will keep paying for it
1:05:24because it's a nice last sort of sanity check
1:05:28before I get it posted.
1:05:30- Google started doing a thing recently
1:05:32which is equal parts funny and annoying for me
1:05:35in Google Docs, where it's flagging the differences
1:05:40between English spelling and American spelling
1:05:43and is asking me if I mean it.
1:05:46Do you wanna have this you taken out of here
1:05:49or do you wanna change to American English?
1:05:52Like it's just like a funny thing
1:05:53'cause it's like either I'm putting it in
1:05:55or somebody else is putting it in.
1:05:56And it's like, are you sure about this one?
1:06:00And they ask me, do you wanna change?
1:06:02Do you wanna change the sentence to American English?
1:06:04- I honestly wonder about that.
1:06:06And sometimes in our docs,
1:06:07you write something in British English
1:06:09and it underlines it for me.
1:06:11And I wonder, does it underline it for you?
1:06:13Or does it know that it's okay for you
1:06:16and it's not okay for me?
1:06:18And then we end up having these kind of,
1:06:20potentially we could go back and forth
1:06:21and we have to keep changing things back and forth
1:06:23and back and forth
1:06:24'cause we're both auto-correcting to our own local language.
1:06:27- I think that is happening now.
1:06:28This is the thing that Google loves to do.
1:06:29- That probably is happening.
1:06:32- Michael asks, "Do you think that Apple's upcoming headset
1:06:35could be thought of in the way that the HomePod is?
1:06:39Too expensive, too high-end version of something
1:06:42that exists from others
1:06:43that's in an otherwise good enough form?"
1:06:46So how we would say the HomePod is just an over-engineered,
1:06:50over-expensive version of an Amazon Echo or whatever.
1:06:54- I feel like we covered this in our episode recently
1:06:57where we talked about this product.
1:06:58I think I addressed this question directly,
1:07:02which is sure it's possible.
1:07:05The difference is that Apple is going,
1:07:07it seems to be committed to this for the long haul
1:07:10as a product category.
1:07:12And they risk it being perceived as being too expensive,
1:07:16but you know, if they keep at it
1:07:17and they keep building new versions of it,
1:07:19I think their thought is that they will wear people down over time.
1:07:22I don't think it's going to be...
1:07:23I do think it's possible that the first one will be way too expensive and it will be kind
1:07:27of rejected by people, but that may be okay because Apple is thinking about this for the
1:07:35long term.
1:07:36My hope is they will have learned something from the HomePod, and if they still are planning
1:07:41on going down this route of it being really expensive, to make sure that they market it
1:07:46with that in mind.
1:07:48Yeah.
1:07:49that just like, this is better?
1:07:51It's like, okay, but it's three times more expensive.
1:07:55You know, like is that?
1:07:58- I think the difference here is that,
1:08:00is that Apple can probably come out and say,
1:08:02this is the best experience ever.
1:08:04And any experience below this isn't good enough.
1:08:06And we can debate that,
1:08:07but I think that they will be able to say that.
1:08:10Whereas HomePod, it's not as if,
1:08:12I mean, I know they said a lot of superlatives
1:08:13about the HomePod, but like,
1:08:15but the truth is the market they were going into
1:08:18is every speaker ever made.
1:08:20- Or that it's just like the HomePod sounds nice,
1:08:22but like to the level that it's nicer than an Amazon Echo,
1:08:27so it's not that much of a difference.
1:08:29They do have the opportunity here to really,
1:08:31like you put it on and you're like, oh my God, you know.
1:08:34- Right, to blow people away and also to say,
1:08:37all of those other things that you can buy
1:08:38for 300 bucks are garbage.
1:08:41This is the stuff, this is the thing
1:08:42that's gonna change the world.
1:08:43And again, it will still be very expensive
1:08:46and a lot of people won't buy it,
1:08:47but it's not the same as the HomePod.
1:08:49- The iPhone was really expensive when it came out.
1:08:52Phones were free, right?
1:08:53- Yeah.
1:08:54- Smartphones were free before that.
1:08:56You just got them as part of your contract,
1:08:57but the iPhone, you also had to give them $600 for it.
1:09:00And it's like, oh, hang on a minute.
1:09:01This is a lot of money.
1:09:02So this has not never worked.
1:09:07It just hasn't worked maybe recently.
1:09:10The Apple Watch maybe is another example.
1:09:12Apple Watches, you know,
1:09:13it's much more expensive than a regular watch.
1:09:16Chris asks, "What are some of your favorite all-time TV show theme songs?"
1:09:22So I wanted to have this question because we just started re-watching Mandalorian again
1:09:28because we just watched Boba Fett.
1:09:30I like the song for Boba Fett, but I love the Mandalorian theme song.
1:09:35The Mandalorian theme song is one of my favorite TV show theme songs.
1:09:38It's just so good.
1:09:39I just love it.
1:09:40It's just a fantastic piece of music.
1:09:41It gets me so hyped up for the show.
1:09:45I will also throw in Succession, which is a recent one.
1:09:48Love the Succession theme song.
1:09:49I know I'm not alone in that.
1:09:51And then because I picked two that were very recent,
1:09:55I wanted to pick some that were older.
1:09:58The West Wing, love the West Wing.
1:09:59Just definitely get the West Wing's theme song
1:10:02gets me in the mood for the West Wing.
1:10:04Like I'm in it.
1:10:05Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, it's just superb.
1:10:08And Curb Your Enthusiasm.
1:10:10- Sure.
1:10:12- So good.
1:10:13It's just like perfect, right?
1:10:14It's perfect for its thing.
1:10:15It's ended up like just that song,
1:10:18like the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" theme song
1:10:20is played so well that now just hearing it
1:10:23makes you feel awkward, you know?
1:10:25It's just like, yes, they nailed it.
1:10:26- I will point people to the incomparable episodes,
1:10:30388 and 515, both of which are TV theme song drafts.
1:10:34- Of course.
1:10:35- But just mining that Spider-Man, Spider-Man.
1:10:40- Oh yeah, that's a good one.
1:10:43I picked the Friday Night Lights theme song,
1:10:47which is really nice.
1:10:48And that's in a style like Explosions in the Sky,
1:10:52which is a great band,
1:10:53even though it's not Explosions in the Sky,
1:10:54it's that post-punk.
1:10:56It's really nice.
1:10:57Let's see, what else do I want to throw in there?
1:11:02Magnum P.I.?
1:11:03Love that, classic '80s Magnum P.I. theme, can't be beat.
1:11:08Tectorus has a really good theme song.
1:11:12I like that a lot.
1:11:13And I don't know, Hawaii Five-O is great.
1:11:18I always used to love that as a kid.
1:11:20I used to love the Taxi theme song
1:11:22and Taxi was on late and my brother watched it,
1:11:25but I wasn't allowed to stay up.
1:11:27It was my bedtime, nine o'clock or whenever it was on
1:11:29when I was a little kid.
1:11:30And so I would stay up to listen to the theme song
1:11:33and then I was allowed to go to bed,
1:11:34but I could listen to the theme song first before I went.
1:11:37So I'll throw that in there.
1:11:38A lot of great TV theme songs out there.
1:11:41If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, you can send in
1:11:45a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or you can use ?AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members
1:11:51discord, which you can get access to by signing up for Upgrade Plus. Go to GetUpgradePlus.com
1:11:57and you will get longer, ad-free versions of the show each and every week.
1:12:03Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade. If you want to find Jason
1:12:06on the channel.
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