0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 374. Today's show is brought to you by
0:00:14Fitbod, Squarespace and TexExpander. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi Jason.
0:00:20Hi Myke, how are you? I'm good. So today is uh October 4th and I broke down 10/4 and so
0:00:2810/4 good buddy. 10/4 good buddy. Breaker breaker. Breaker. I have a hashtag snow talk question for
0:00:33you big eagle and it comes from Ryan. Ryan wants to know do you use any developer provided
0:00:40alternate icons in apps? I was thinking about this. I have uh a few, a handful. I think I'm using the
0:00:53orange icon in Carrot Weather. I'm using, if there's an alternate icon that is the six
0:01:01apple colors because of my personal brand, I will choose it. So my pcalc icon is like that. I think
0:01:08I have Apollo installed, the reddit client, although I almost never use it and I think I'm using the
0:01:13the six colors icon there and I am using the purple background I think slack icon
0:01:23mostly because it's so hard to tell the difference between slack and photos
0:01:26or office or any of the google products or like just anything because they weren't with just
0:01:34corporate. For me it's mostly photos but yes it's really annoying and and so I'm using the purple
0:01:39background. It's just just reminding me that I don't know if they have that option on the mac.
0:01:45They don't but you could always just download one. You could just yeah you could do that yourself.
0:01:50You could hijack a different icon. I realize I have the white icon on my mac. I do this quite a lot.
0:01:58If a developer offers it I will always look and if there's something that I prefer I'll change it.
0:02:02This isn't always the case. Like for example Todoist, they offer lots of different colors
0:02:07but I prefer their standard which is red with white but some of the ones that I use, I use Carrot
0:02:14one. They have like a neon-y kind of one. I don't remember the name but it looks like the logo is
0:02:18made out of neon. Craft, they have a lot of good options and I use a nice one with a bit of a
0:02:23texture on it. I also use the six color one for pcalc. I use the dark icon for overcast. I use,
0:02:30I also use the purple one for slack. I use the dark version like the blacked out version of
0:02:36fantastical. Narwhal, I also use the dark version. If I use an app, well I tend to use all my apps in
0:02:43dark mode but if there's like a dark mode version of an icon I'll always change to it because that
0:02:47is kind of my mental model for the application. And parcel as well has a bunch of them.
0:02:53You know the one that I don't like the dark icon of is overcast.
0:02:56No I do. I really like the orange and I don't like the negative space one.
0:03:02Do you mean like the overall dark mode itself or just the icon?
0:03:06Oh well I also, do I use overcast in dark mode? I think I don't but the icon is I like that orange
0:03:13icon too much to do the alternate icon. Yeah you see for me the application is all black like dark
0:03:20gray and blue so for the icon to be orange would mess up my brain. Fair enough. That's just for me
0:03:25because like because the icon matches the colors of the application. I like it when I can when I
0:03:30can also do that. I'm never going to turn down an orange icon I guess is what I'm saying. That makes
0:03:34sense. I really love this feature in general. I think all developers should offer options.
0:03:40Why not like just go for it. It's a fun little thing to do and it's also an easy thing to sell
0:03:45as an extra for people too. I think this podcast is on the record as saying one colors are fun
0:03:53and two having fun on your device is fun is good. It's good. Colors of fun, fun is good.
0:04:04Fun is underrated. We should yeah people should people having fun is a good thing and colors are
0:04:09fun so of course you should have alternate icons because people should customize their devices and
0:04:16have that be fun. Yeah always a fun always a fun. So let's do some follow-up Jason. Oh by the way if
0:04:24you'd like to send in a question for Snail Talk hashtag Snail Talk or question mark Snail Talk in
0:04:27the Relay FM members Discord. Thank you to Ryan for that great question. I just wanted to say the
0:04:32Saint Jude campaign is now over. The donation page is going to stop accepting donations tomorrow
0:04:38as we record this. This is because we have our final corporate matches still left to be added in.
0:04:44I am not going to spoil the total amount that has been raised. I do know what it is but I'm not
0:04:51going to spoil it before it's actually been added and it hasn't at the time of recording. But it is
0:04:56the campaign has exceeded all possible expectations that we ever could have had.
0:05:02Like right now it's over $680,000 as I'm talking right now without those final corporate matches
0:05:08added in. So I just want to thank all of our listeners for helping support such an incredible
0:05:14cause and we really really appreciate it. Yeah. I have some follow-up from Christopher. So if you
0:05:22remember the last couple of weeks when we've been talking about some stuff with photos you've been
0:05:26mentioning the lookup visual lookup feature which you know the thing that can't detect cats.
0:05:32But can detect plants. Yes, thinks every cat is a tailless cat. Yep. And I kept saying I'm not
0:05:37seeing this I'm not seeing this. Christopher wrote in to say it's US only right now. Yeah.
0:05:41You apparently have to have your device set to US English and then it will show up. Some of this
0:05:46stuff is so strangely arbitrary. It's like oh no we can only recognize dogs in America. English dogs?
0:05:53No way. Forget it. It's not not there. Freedom dogs only. We know that's right. We don't understand
0:06:00anything. No this is not true because I can recognize pictures that I took when I was
0:06:04traveling outside of the US. But I can only recognize them in the US. That makes it even
0:06:08more annoying right like you can recognize things in the United Kingdom. I can and I did.
0:06:14Buildings. That's the thing is I've got various pictures of buildings in London where it's like
0:06:18I know what that building is and yet you can't do that you are in London. So what what is that about?
0:06:24I don't know. I don't know. It's a mystery. This is something I saw on MacRumors today when I was
0:06:33preparing for the show. As I was as I do on a Monday morning I kind of go through my RSS
0:06:38of make sure I'm caught up on all the news and stuff that I want to bring to the episode. I saw
0:06:42a headline that created great nostalgia for me for last year and it's iPhone 13 models still include
0:06:48EarPods in the box in France. Yeah oh this is this is I admire MacRumors in industry for writing a
0:06:59story about what was already true about the next but it's a new iPhone and it's still there. Still
0:07:03there. A new story is written about the thing that we talked about. MacRumors is the canary in the
0:07:07coal mine for EarPods now. That's right if they if they stop writing about French EarPods then
0:07:12we'll know something is up. And of course it's the classic box within a box maneuver where they
0:07:18literally ship the iPhone 13 box inside another box that also has EarPods in it. Yeah so they
0:07:25don't change the box that everybody else gets. They just the shipping box or something. They just put
0:07:29like a white it's like generic white box. It's so great. It's really just Apple being like hey
0:07:34France here you go whatever. This came up I think because last year when they removed the power
0:07:40adapter right and this was like a whole conversation of like local laws can still make
0:07:46Apple force Apple to do things and in France is one of them. The law being that you have to have
0:07:52a hands-free kit which is just like a hilarious notion now I think anyway but you know you still
0:07:59have to have a hands-free kit as if nobody could use a speakerphone. So without getting too deep
0:08:06down into people having opinions about the EC the European Commission potentially saying that
0:08:14that USB-C has to be a standard and there's lots of arguments about that that have been going on
0:08:19kind of in the the sphere of Apple conversation the last few weeks. I will say that this is a
0:08:26great bit of information for the side that points out that having big bureaucracies make decisions
0:08:35based on technology that moves fast like vastly faster than they do is dumb and it's because the
0:08:42hands-free kit specifically this is something from an era like pre-smartphone essentially where there
0:08:49was all sorts of talk about how you if you hold your phone up to your face a lot you may be
0:08:54getting dangerous amounts of radiation and it's unclear whether that's real or not but they passed
0:08:59this rule at an in an era that was like prehistoric in terms of how we would think of it now but that
0:09:07regulation just never died and so we're left with the box in the box in France. So it is I think an
0:09:15argument about you know say what you will about governmental organizations regulating the technology
0:09:22industry and I think it's a complex conversation and I think there are pros and cons and John
0:09:28Gruber and I talked about it on the talk show last week for a little while and because I'm more
0:09:36bullish on the long-term life of the USB-C connector than I think a lot of people are
0:09:40because I think as I've mentioned here before if you think about the USB-A connector that has
0:09:46been with us for 25 years now. And it was a bad connector. And it was bad right it was way worse
0:09:52than USB-C so I feel like USB-C although you know there'll be different labels and they'll be
0:09:56incompatible and all that but that actual plug will probably be with us for the rest of our lives
0:10:00honestly like once it's in it'll probably be impossible to get it out but these regulations
0:10:07my point is this is a great example of regulating something because of a controversy and a
0:10:13conversation that happened when we were carrying around like big thick like Nokia phones with
0:10:20weird chargers and weird headphones that weren't proprietary connectors and you had to buy adapters
0:10:28for those and somebody in France made this a rule and now we are left with an iPhone 13 coming
0:10:35inside a white box with headphones inside of it and that that's it's kind of dumb.
0:10:40Yeah like I think that this hands-free thing was created for driving safety but I don't really think
0:10:46that hands-free kits are what people tend to use these days anyway right like well so many cars
0:10:54have all the stuff connected to them for speakerphone or people just use whatever they use.
0:10:59Myke at least according to the bible of iPhones in boxes in France macrumors.com this is in order
0:11:06to protect children under 14 years of age from potential electromagnetic radiation.
0:11:10Oh my god I forgot.
0:11:11Yeah go to the source go to the experts in macrumors.
0:11:15This is what happened last time.
0:11:17Joe Rossignol is on it I love Joe is a friend of the show Joe actually that that Joe has to write
0:11:24this story every year but it's it's to protect children from cell phone radiation by holding
0:11:29their phones to their faces which quite honestly there's is there a child who holds their iPhone
0:11:34up to their head ever? Maybe in France they do things different in France I don't know.
0:11:40I fell into the same trap where I tried to apply logic to this rule and then got caught out I think
0:11:46Rossignol is a French name too so I guess that's why Joe has to write this article
0:11:52like it's gonna be my assumption.
0:11:54Joe I believe is Canadian I think he's in Toronto but you know it's basically
0:12:00Europe at that point from an American perspective so I'm sure they stuck him on it it's like Canada
0:12:04that's overseas of the Americans yeah you're on the beat you're on the France beat Rossignol
0:12:10doesn't sound sounds kind of French isn't it you're on the box in a box beat Joe go to it
0:12:16and we thank him for his service the box and I and thanks to the macrumors foreign members
0:12:21who always send a picture to Joe of the box in a box another part of this story that delights me so
0:12:28yeah stacks thanks for the stacks this one thanks for his own trick once again you you were trapped
0:12:33inside the box inside the box the Apple watch series 7 was announced today that pre-orders
0:12:39begin this Friday and they're shipping from the 15th of October.
0:12:44Uh very excited I want I want one I want one can we you're planning on pre-ordering one
0:12:50yes my only hesitation is that I'll get it my problem with pre-ordering anything these days
0:12:56honestly because I was thinking about this with the with iphone too is you can get up early in the
0:13:03morning if you're in the US or if you're in in Pacific and you can press the button at that time
0:13:08and they may give you a date that is the ship date and say it'll be at your house that date
0:13:12but what I found is if I wait for the release date and go to the website and say can I pick it up at
0:13:18my local Apple store they say sure go ahead just come on in and pick one up you can order it now
0:13:24and pick it up in two hours so I'm I'm less enthusiastic about the pre-order because I know
0:13:33that this the secret right has been unlocked for me which is if you live near an Apple store and I
0:13:38live very near an Apple store they have stock on day one and you can go to Apple's website that day
0:13:44and say I would like this and they say what time would you like to pick it up and that's pretty
0:13:49good that's pretty nice so we'll see we'll see I'm gonna give it a try I think and if I'm unhappy
0:13:56with what I see perhaps I'll change my mind I don't know the beauty of it is if it's if your
0:14:00order is way back ordered like beyond a few days where your order is not going to go into process
0:14:07you can cancel that order if they have them in stock on day one and just get them that way
0:14:12yeah I'm planning on pre-ordering but I'm not around to either collect or accept a delivery
0:14:19on the 15th so I oh I don't know and I'll find out is if I can arrange for a collection for a future
0:14:26date so like maybe on Sunday or Monday or something to go pick it up we'll see that that that will be
0:14:31my plan if I can't do that then I'll just wait I guess so let's do some upstream news this is where
0:14:39we take a look at some of the news in streaming media mostly with a focus on Apple but before we
0:14:45go upstream why don't we go downstream Jason would you like to tell the Upgradients about a brand new
0:14:51podcast that has debuted here on relay FM uh yeah it's called downstream it's a little play on uh
0:14:57upstream and also a play on download which I used to do it is a podcast with me and Julia Alexander
0:15:03if people remember the episode where Myke disappeared in the middle of it and we talked
0:15:06about we did like a mega upstream with Julia who is an analyst at at Parrot Analytics her entire
0:15:12job is thinking about the streaming wars and the changes in entertainment in the business of
0:15:19entertainment the stuff that we talk about here on upstream that's her job she thinks about that
0:15:23all the time and we had a great time with her as a guest and so then we recorded a test show
0:15:27and that was good and so we're going to launch officially on Wednesday we'll record and release
0:15:33episode one of downstream episode zero is out now sort of to prime the pump and let people subscribe
0:15:38and it's got our test show in it from August tacked on to the end of it and then every other week
0:15:44we will be talking about these issues and that's what the whole podcast is is talking about
0:15:49the you know the future of streaming media and the what the how it's going to change how we
0:15:55consume entertainment in our homes and you know and movie theaters and you know everything else
0:16:00that's involved with the the shift from linear tv and movie theaters to streaming and maybe
0:16:07movie theaters but we'll we'll we'll talk about all that stuff and so i'm looking forward to it
0:16:12i i have a upstream is fun but we don't get to it every week and it's a little more focused on apple
0:16:18i used to talk with tim goodman about this stuff every week on the tv talk machine podcast but tim
0:16:22retired from that part of the business and so i'm sort of filling that tv talk machine shaped hole
0:16:30in my life with uh with downstream yeah i'm really excited about it i'm so pleased uh that we're able
0:16:36to walk in julia to the relay fm family she's yes absolutely yeah she's super sharp so smart and
0:16:41very very happy that we're able to make this happen i have loved her coverage of this stuff
0:16:45for years now great twitter follow yep yep and uh so to be able to talk about it with her
0:16:52every fortnight is uh it's gonna be great um and for those who listen live uh we record we're
0:16:59gonna record it probably during connected so we'll be broadcasting it live but it'll be yet another
0:17:04wednesday podcast on relay fm where we love a good wednesday all the podcasts come out on wednesdays
0:17:09love a good wednesday around yeah you know i'm real i'm genuinely really excited about it it's
0:17:14obviously a topic that i have interest in too because it's something that we bring to this show
0:17:18but it's gonna be going in much in much more depth and talking about things that we just wouldn't get
0:17:24to uh so if you like upstream like if you enjoy this segment of the show don't worry it's not
0:17:30going away um but there will be even more conversation about this type of stuff in more
0:17:35depth and spanning out across the industry at large at downstream so you can go to relay.fm
0:17:40downstream and you can check it out so to talk about some headlines of our own here the athletic
0:17:48is reporting that apple is nfl's favorite for their out of market package this is the sunday
0:17:55ticket thing we were talking about nfl sunday ticket right we've mentioned this before
0:17:59um this was the case i think i think grouper asked me about this on the talk show last week he
0:18:05actually played point blank he was like do you think apple's going to get nfl sunday tickets
0:18:08nfl sunday ticket is basically all the football games not being aired in your area so uh your
0:18:15local station will broadcast a game and if you've got it you know you've got a couple different
0:18:18network affiliates you'll get maybe three games on a sunday all the rest of the games that are
0:18:23being played on a sunday are not available for you to see if you're a fan of a team that is not
0:18:27one of your local teams you can't see that stuff so it's been a very successful product i would say
0:18:34for direct tv for the last like 20 years i think um like literally when i moved into our house here
0:18:41which was a long time ago i got satellite tv specifically to get nfl sunday ticket and so it
0:18:46was a way for them as a to sell people on the idea of not doing cable and instead doing satellite
0:18:53so they could get this exclusive thing so i think it's driven a huge amount of sales and as a result
0:19:00it's sort of become the kind of thing you pay for we've talked about it here before it's the
0:19:03kind of thing that if you're a tv provider you you bid for knowing you're going to lose money on it
0:19:10because you've got some other goal and that's like with direct tv it was driving subscriptions like
0:19:16we overpay for this but it gets people to be direct tv customers and then we've got them for years and
0:19:21years and years paying monthly for our service so what would apple do with it i don't know but like
0:19:27i think it's interesting that if apple wants to goose subscriptions to apple tv plus and make it a
0:19:34requirement for sunday ticket they're going to get a lot more people signing up for apple tv plus
0:19:39right so that that would be big picture strategy and you know apple and amazon i would say also
0:19:44who i think is a severe serious competitor for this product those are big tech companies that
0:19:49are playing a different game netflix is playing the game of subscriber acquisition uh disney plus
0:19:56is is subscriber acquisition disney and espn right but apple and amazon like they they're
0:20:03their business this is a tiny part of their overall business and i think that makes them maybe more
0:20:09likely to overpay for it because the point is really just to drive more people into the rest
0:20:16of what they do so it's an interesting idea it would definitely i actually think it's great for
0:20:21consumers because um well it's great for most consumers i would say people people in rural
0:20:26areas that have slow broadband it's gonna be terrible for them because they're going to need
0:20:31to uh they're gonna have to stream and streaming is slow although you can if you've got satellite
0:20:36ironically they probably need to keep their satellite dishes because they'll need their
0:20:40satellite broadband in order to get the games but for a lot of people in urban areas this is great
0:20:45because they can't or or it's too difficult to put up a satellite dish essentially and instead
0:20:52they'll just have it on an app on their tv so that would be pretty cool so anyway apple um as you and
0:20:59i've talked about here before i think the big story is i think apple is really interested in
0:21:03doing live sports as a way to drive people into its services because live sports is one of those
0:21:10things that is not um going away and is a way to get people focused on you know you you if you're
0:21:18a fan of that sport or a fan of that team um you know you could cut the cord but you're gonna lose
0:21:24access to that so this is a it's a powerful it's been a powerful way for like cable companies to
0:21:28keep people on cable it's turning into a powerful way for streaming services to get people to sign
0:21:33up for their streaming services so let's keep an eye on it whether it's this one or something else
0:21:39i the athletic source i also wonder if that is a little bit of the nfl you know kind of talking up
0:21:46apple to stoke the fires of of more bids from other tech companies who covet this package but
0:21:52it'll be interesting to watch just from that standpoint that this is something that has been
0:21:56driving satellite acquisition for the last 20 years and it's possible that apple or some other
0:22:01tech company will turn that on its head i think it makes sense to have an appointment viewing which
0:22:10is not just set on your own schedule you know like it's actually like you got to come and sit down
0:22:15and use apple tv during that period of time and they can you know use that as an opportunity to
0:22:21further you know share what they've got going on at apple tv like i saw similarly i saw a headline
0:22:27recently that that reed hastings has said that you know netflix consider trying to get formula
0:22:33one rights which makes a lot of sense for them because part of formula one's resurgence especially
0:22:38in north america right now is because of the netflix documentary so it would make a lot of
0:22:43sense for them to like you know they have that market now it's really interesting though because
0:22:48netflix generally has been a company that i've poo-pooed their interest in live because it goes
0:22:53against everything else netflix does so yeah including the way their technology is built
0:22:58right because streaming events live is not the same as loading things on the cdn in various parts
0:23:02of the world so that people can stream them at once it's like you've got to it's got to be right
0:23:07now and the demand will will be at a hundred percent during the event people aren't tuning in
0:23:12later they're tuning in right now and you've got to fulfill them all not that netflix can't do it
0:23:16it's just not been a strategy for them so i think it's interesting that they mentioned at least an
0:23:20interest in that because i do think that if you're running any sort of streaming service you should
0:23:25be looking at whether um live sports rights make sense for you just as a way if nothing else just
0:23:31as a way to acquire and keep subscribers so apple have secured the rights to a movie directed by
0:23:39john wats starring brad pitt and george cluney as part of this deal the movie will get a quote
0:23:45robust theatrical release first before it comes to apple tv plus apparently an eight figure sum was
0:23:52left off the table to get this to happen like apple were willing to pay millions more to just
0:23:59have it on apple tv plus um but no they're also going to be helping with a theatrical release i
0:24:05was wondering about this about the this is an interesting thing to me especially in the case
0:24:10of this like if you're an apple tv plus subscriber and you know it's coming to the service quickly
0:24:16right because you assume it's probably a shorter window and then it doesn't go to pay right it
0:24:22comes straight to apple tv plus i wonder if like what's going to happen to this kind of thinking
0:24:26in the future right like it's it's so difficult to tell right now i'm sure you and julia will talk
0:24:31about this stuff a lot over the next couple of months but like just this idea of like shortening
0:24:35windows and stuff like that like how many how much of a business is there going to be in the cinema
0:24:40no i know like this weekend has been interesting venom's done really well in the us uh james bond's
0:24:46done really well everywhere outside of the us also in the us but really good in the uk and stuff like
0:24:50that so but it's so tricky to tell the the cinema business still yeah it's i think there's this is
0:24:59just the big question is how our movie audience is going to become coming back how is that different
0:25:05and let's not forget that on top of that is just the idea that um we were already experiencing a
0:25:13transition so all these companies are balancing the money that they really want to get out of the
0:25:20theater which is this really nice revenue stream they don't want to delete because they already are
0:25:24getting kind of like the post theater money and they get the theater money so even though you're
0:25:29streaming service is a high priority for you and you do want to maximize that and that's the future
0:25:33of your business you also don't want to turn off the tap that's flowing all that money from the
0:25:37theater in but at the same time you know people are more interested in streaming consumers are
0:25:44uh you know kovid has to have at least knocked off enthusiasm in theaters by some it's all
0:25:51i i'm fascinated by where this is going and kovid is just like another factor in this transition
0:25:57because i think a lot of these movies i think the truth is a lot of these movies aren't going to do
0:26:02that well in theaters because um they are not some of them are like big name big budget but i think
0:26:09we may be headed for a place where um the only movies that really make sense in theaters at a
0:26:15large scale are the big blockbusters and that everything else that was previously sort of like
0:26:20struggling to find an audience the answer is those are going to be on streaming primarily and they
0:26:25will find an audience there and that was already starting to happen before kovid so we'll just have
0:26:29to see how it comes back and and how it changes i think the the the easy answer is that that window
0:26:35between theater and streaming is going to shrink dramatically and that a lot of stuff that
0:26:40previously might have shown up as a rental on itunes and amazon and stuff like that will instead
0:26:45go straight to a streaming service because that that's the kind of money that they're willing to
0:26:50forego in order to bolster their streaming services but we'll see so this is another movie of a-list
0:26:56actors right coming to apple tv plus and when i was looking i was doing a bit of digging around
0:27:02today following some links for some articles and stuff and just grabbed a selection of the movies
0:27:06that apple has coming to the service i just wanted to read this list real quick because it's kind of
0:27:12i think it's kind of astounding so they have emancipation starring will smith killers of the
0:27:16flower moon of leonardo dicaprio and robert de niro spirited with will fowl ryan winnolds and
0:27:21octavia spencer raimond and ray starring ewan mcgregor and ethan hawk bride with scarlet
0:27:26johanson ghosted with chris evans and scarlet johanson kitbag with Joaquin phoenix snowblind
0:27:32of jake gillenhole and sharper with julianne moore let's go to the apple film festival huh they're
0:27:36all in on those movies we can all thank tom hanks at the steve jobs theater little film festival
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0:29:46continued support of this show and relay fm so i want to go through some rumors with you jason some
0:29:52some info coming in from our friends at mac rumors and nine to five mac as as we do according to
0:29:59ming chi kuo apple has abandoned a plan to release an oled ipad air in 2022 this was something that
0:30:07apparently they were considering over concerns around quality of the panel and the costs
0:30:13also it has been reported that the ipad pro the 11 inch ipad pro is going to get mini led in 2022
0:30:21quo suggests that another reason apple have cancelled the oled plan for the ipad air
0:30:26would be as it could have been detrimental to sales of the ipad pro which was when i first
0:30:32saw the oled rumor i was very confused because it was like hang on a second which is best
0:30:38mini led or oled right and like how would they argue or make the case for certain screens being
0:30:46having different technology and better like oled's better in some ways mini led is better in some
0:30:52ways and i feel like it would have been really confusing so if anything i'm actually pretty
0:30:56happy that they're they're going to continue on the mini led train for a while that oled ipad air i
0:31:02think would have been pretty hard right yeah i i i mean i don't know that's a large oled screen right
0:31:08i mean it would have been great like but it would have been weird in the lineup i think would be the
0:31:12would maybe be a bit of a problem interesting for a mid-range product right to have that to have the
0:31:18oled on the mid-range product it sounds like this was like their idea of what they were going to try
0:31:24to do and it didn't work like i i and and that they decided let's not do this which makes sense
0:31:30to me because i feel like does the ipad air really need that kind of a screen like don't you want to
0:31:38keep it differentiated from the ipad pro i i don't i don't know i it makes me wonder if there's a
0:31:45bigger story here that they were down the path of investigating oled for the ipad and they ended up
0:31:50with mini led and the oled stuff kept kicking around and they're like well maybe we could put
0:31:55it in the air and then they finally just said no let's forget it let's let's kill it i wonder if
0:31:59that's really the story of of what happened here i think that makes a lot of sense right that like
0:32:05before they landed on mini led for the ipad pro they were looking at oled first because like my
0:32:12understanding of this stuff maybe you can correct me if i'm wrong is that technically oled tends to
0:32:17be a better panel because you can actually get true blacks which you don't get with mini led
0:32:24it's better much better but you can still get like that blooming and stuff which i know was a thing
0:32:29that people were talking about a lot when the mini led ipad came around but like there's there's kind
0:32:34of like i don't know pros and cons to each system it would have just been very strange i think to
0:32:39have different ones going on i'm very excited about the 11-inch ipad pro getting the mini led
0:32:46screen because i think i'm kind of done with the big ipad like the big big ipad pro i don't imagine
0:32:52that being a product that i'm interested in anymore but i still like the idea of an 11-inch
0:32:58ipad pro for work stuff and traveling and stuff like that but the 12.9 i think is bigger than i
0:33:06want now and i have been very jealous of everybody including you with that mini led screen and the
0:33:11one that i see at home because my wife has one and it looks so good you know federico will always
0:33:16send us these pictures like he did when he did his original review he was doing this with the ipad
0:33:20mini as well where he takes pictures of the screens with the lights off and you see the
0:33:24differences of the yellow black you know and i'm like oh man it's a good example of how to get
0:33:31across even if you're not on a high dynamic range screen that there's a big difference that you end
0:33:37up with these really black blacks versus these very kind of gray blue muddy yeah it's uh yeah i
0:33:45love it in the big ipad which i've got which is great and it looks great it's it's really
0:33:51incredible technology and so i have the feeling like apple's really saying at this point and we
0:33:57know that they're working on micro led right isn't that isn't that right i think so i believe so so
0:34:04it seems like apple feels like at least right now improving your localized backlighting in order to
0:34:13get dynamic range boost is a technology that they are happier with than oled and that isn't
0:34:21just about oled performance it's also about oled pricing on larger displays because obviously
0:34:27they've got oled in phones and watches so i think it's just it's really interesting to see
0:34:34get a little bit of a glimpse into apple's kind of uh priority priority and prioritization of
0:34:42display technologies and how they want to integrate them into their products because uh mini led is
0:34:48apparently also coming to the next thing i'm going to talk about which is the macbook pro
0:34:52uh mark garman has said that the macbook pro is still going to arrive within the next month
0:34:58is what he is expecting so he can in his power on newsletter his power on time of mark
0:35:05so the the m1x power mac powered macbook pro is expected to arrive uh this month with other
0:35:13m1x products still expected uh possibly this year with the mac mini being the the most likely
0:35:20candidate just as a refresher there will be two versions of the m1x uh is being reported by mark
0:35:26garman both feature 10 cores eight high performance to efficiency and the difference being one has a
0:35:3116 core gpu the other has a 32 core gpu mark says that apple is still uh working on a higher
0:35:38performance chip for a mac pro as well so i still want to see this product i remain very excited
0:35:46about this macbook pro and i am very pleased to hear that it's still going to be a thing
0:35:51uh very soon maybe within the next couple of weeks yeah it's um i think imminent right the
0:35:58only question is how are they going to release this how are they going to do it can't wait to
0:36:02see the m1x i did a story a while ago somebody kindly in the six colors slack for members they
0:36:10kindly re-linked to the story that basically was my chip i'll find it we'll put a link in the show
0:36:18notes it was my chip prognostications based on trends current processor trends and it would be
0:36:27about that which is you know you're looking at a chip that is going to be scoring in multi-core
0:36:32way way way faster than the fastest macbook pro today right the fastest macbook pro today the 16
0:36:37inch you know it's got a geekbench number in the seven thousands maybe and i would imagine that
0:36:45this thing will be in the 12 thousands so you know we're we're talking 50 percent faster uh 75
0:36:55faster like it will be my prediction is uh the m1x would be a lot faster than uh than what we've got
0:37:03in those intel high-end systems so very exciting yeah i'm pretty pumped the thing is for me though
0:37:09all of this sounds great i'm really into it just oh man i love the thought of a new display sounds
0:37:15awesome but i want apple to also who doesn't release their own display because i use my macbook
0:37:24pro mostly in docked mode right clam clam show mode i plug my macbook pro into an lg display
0:37:32and the experience is not that great like every day when i plug it in i have to do some dance of
0:37:38plugging and unplugging the monitor to get it to actually turn on properly so i would love apple
0:37:43to release their own display again which i know is heavily rumored that they're working on but i want
0:37:48them to do that at the same time as these new macbook pros so i can get a better experience
0:37:53out of using my macbook pro the way that i want to use it and it would also be super cool if they
0:37:58made it mini led as well so i would also get the full experience that i would otherwise be getting
0:38:05when my macbook would be open even when it's closed wouldn't that be nice we're all waiting
0:38:09for it but i i've reached the point with the external display where it's like i don't want
0:38:14to predict it anymore because it's like it makes so much sense and yet they won't do it
0:38:18so laptops would be a great time to introduce it wouldn't it or when they do the mac mini but
0:38:25either or but like please just anytime would be good just tomorrow would be good because i would
0:38:30still want it we'll take it any day laptop that's right has somebody created is is apple selling a
0:38:36lower cost standalone display.com don't register that domain people but you can it could be any
0:38:41day is today the day probably not but maybe someday so now that we know when the watch
0:38:46is shipping because that could have been held for some kind of event right saying like oh remember
0:38:51the apple watch it's coming at this point the only other things left as well as the uh macbook pro i
0:38:56guess it's like an airpods 3 and a date for macos monterey so i don't know that the i'm kind of like
0:39:02starting to lose faith on like a standalone event now i feel like the products are slimming down
0:39:07but i still want it i want an event these laptops feel so cool i want them to to roll out the red
0:39:13carpet for them but we'll find out we will there were some updates to i work last week oh we're
0:39:19there i saw the headlines go by and saw it happened and then was kind of like i don't care
0:39:25about this but then you you wrote an article and you told me some of the stuff that's in especially
0:39:32keynote which is actually kind of cool right yeah i think the keynote stuff for me the keynote stuff
0:39:39is is the best stuff and i think apple knows that it's the best stuff so they allow you now
0:39:43in keynote to create an object in the slide that is a live video view of you through a camera or
0:39:51of a screen capture of an ios device so you would get to a page in the presentation and then your
0:39:57camera would turn is that how it works yeah exactly and it's a it's an object on the slide
0:40:04so you can do a move transition you can have it appear when you build a slide it can be layered
0:40:11over or under other objects in the slide you can imagine a presentation where you are over here in
0:40:19a little box and then you go to the next slide and it's just you and and this is great for like
0:40:23a video presentation to a to like a zoom or whatever kind of thing right the idea that
0:40:29keynote can let you build that also you can record your keynote so you can use this to record
0:40:33a slideshow that integrates your video into it i just think it's really smart and then on top of
0:40:38that device capture so if you are demoing for example something you need to do on your iphone
0:40:42or ipad you can actually bring up a slide that has a live view of an iphone that you then have
0:40:47your iphone there and you tap around and everybody sees it in the slide and then when you tap away
0:40:53that slide goes away and the capture goes away so that's actually quite cool i don't know what i
0:41:01would use it for but i'm happy that i know that it exists now because then i could right and a lot of
0:41:07these things i mean it's kind of funny really because you know what this stuff is sounds really
0:41:11great for remote learning which is definitely still happening but it's happening less it of
0:41:18course you know kind of reminds me of shareplay right like these things are super great when all
0:41:23of school is remote and it feels like at least in a lot of parts of the world that's not so much of
0:41:29a going concern whether it should or shouldn't be it just isn't happening but these things are cool
0:41:35for whenever it might be needed again i guess yeah i mean i i'm not sure camera is seems to me to be
0:41:43very much a remote presentation feature yeah screen capture is more i mean this is another one
0:41:49of these things where apple's like all right well everybody's doing screen capture everybody's doing
0:41:53you know shared screen presentations now because of covid what could we what could we do and so now
0:41:59we're getting them a year later and are they you know what's the validity of them now i think
0:42:04there's people are going to be doing remote presentations forever because it's a way that
0:42:08we can that's true so that's very true yeah i was thinking of the learning thing but yeah
0:42:12presentations with with remote working this is kind of perfect for this uh which is you know
0:42:18this always existed but now is existing on different levels a lot more frequently like
0:42:24i'll just say like when i say like i don't care about these it's just like i don't really think
0:42:28about the new features for these products and i use all three of them like a lot i use numbers
0:42:34pages and keynote like i use them um for all kinds of stuff like pretty much every day but i'm i
0:42:41consider myself a very basic user of them keynote is probably the one i use the least because i
0:42:46don't do a lot of presentations but i do use pages and numbers a lot so just i like the way to look
0:42:51they're very and i find them very simple and their simplicity is why i don't necessarily seek out
0:42:56features from them you know what i mean i can't really pay attention to the release notes because
0:43:02i just want to do what i know how to do with them and keep it at that but it's cool that they've
0:43:05added them this is going to be great for people who need them and i'm sure these keynote features
0:43:09i'll find something to do with them at some point in the future i i think about like i give
0:43:13presentations from time to time to you know user groups and those used to be in person but now
0:43:19they're mostly online and this is great because i i had actually stopped giving slides because i
0:43:27felt like my slides didn't didn't say that much and i should just do video presentation now i
0:43:33think about this and i think oh now it would be easy for me to integrate my video when i want
0:43:38and put slides in when i want and even mix and match and i like that idea so i i think i think
0:43:44it's very very cool idea um the the uh numbers update by the way is pivot tables which is a
0:43:52feature that's been excel in excel for a million years i don't know what they are but i know people
0:43:57really like them yeah it's like a summary view of a large data set that's in there and and you have
0:44:02some abilities to filter it and it's like if you're processing large amounts of data in numbers
0:44:07um which are people i guess people are i always hear from people who are like yes i use i work
0:44:12i was like okay great like i don't and pages also has some new features i don't use pages either i
0:44:18use numbers for like just keeping track of some stuff but the main reason that i use numbers is
0:44:23because i find it so easy to create graphs right otherwise i use google sheets like that's i tend
0:44:32to use google sheets the most but i can't really ever get google sheets to work the way i want to
0:44:37with creating graphs but numbers like graphs and charts are so easy to make so that's what i use
0:44:42numbers for for that kind of stuff and i know you use numbers yeah i use numbers for charting yeah
0:44:48i never really think about using it for like giant spreadsheets but i know you know because i i have
0:44:54microsoft office so i just use excel i'm comfortable in excel but i i get that people don't i think i
0:44:58use google sheets for big stuff because all my big stuff tends to need to be shared with someone
0:45:03i i also use google sheets a lot but the fact is that apple made this office suite that's
0:45:08essentially you know if not free essentially free and um so people use it and it's great that apple
0:45:14is continuing to update it like i i love that they keep making an effort with these products
0:45:19and i love keynote and i rely on numbers for my charts so i am also appreciative that apple
0:45:26is uh updating them this episode is brought to you by text expander for my friends that smile
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0:47:11support of this show and relay fm now around this time of year kind of like the full-time new device
0:47:17time that kind of stuff we do tend to get a lot more ask upgrade questions than we would other
0:47:22times of the year oh yeah thank you there's some there's a lot of lasers a backlog of lasers
0:47:28and i realized today when i was going through the document that we had a huge backlog and some of
0:47:34these questions would otherwise not have gotten answered because they may have gotten out of date
0:47:38in a few weeks time so today we're going to be doing an extended ask upgrade segment two maybe
0:47:45three full segments of ask upgrade that we would normally do so strap in the first question comes
0:47:51from s u who asks i'm curious to know now that both of you have used the iphone 13 pro as well
0:47:57as ipad pro and ipad mini is 120 hertz promotion more important or noticeable on the ipad or the
0:48:04iphone and i'm intrigued for you because you seem kind of down on uh promotion on the iphone i'm not
0:48:12that i see why actually why are you pitting us against each other again so soon i'm not down on
0:48:17it i just don't think it's as as important to me as other things that i like about the cheaper
0:48:23iphone 13 and so i i'm you know i don't think it's i remember you being a hater a big hater of
0:48:29promotion and saying that it was useless and you don't you're thinking of stephen hackett
0:48:34i so uh which now that i've used all of these things is it more noticeable and important on ipad
0:48:42or iphone i say ipad for two reasons uh one of which is i feel it's more noticeable on ipad i just
0:48:49do and because there's more dots moving around at 120 and it's also more important because of the
0:48:55apple pencil because it allows the refresh rate to really crank up and the apple pencil to see more
0:48:59real and of course the iphone doesn't support the apple pencil so um that's what i have to say but
0:49:05again it's a nice feature on the phone too it's nice right mike it's nice it's very nice i think
0:49:12it's more noticeable on the iphone than the ipad to a significant degree i've been wondering about
0:49:18this i've been thinking a lot about so i have some friends contact me too and they're like
0:49:22some agree with you and some agree with me about where it's more noticeable and i'm wondering like
0:49:27if it's a eyesight difference i don't think so because i noticed it on the ipad right and i do
0:49:33know that it's there it's not like i don't on the ipad like i don't and it's not like i don't notice
0:49:37it i don't think it's an eyesight difference i think it is literally and i said this last week
0:49:42but i'm going to say it again i think it's literally how you use your iphone difference
0:49:47and i notice it everywhere on my iphone in ways i don't notice it on my ipad like opening a folder
0:49:53of apps yeah like opening the lock screen feels like different i don't know what i don't know
0:50:00i i wish someone could tell us why people see it differently but like for example like my wife
0:50:06adena she doesn't even notice it all right we've gone through it i i notice it i just don't think
0:50:13that there there is enough reason especially somebody coming from the mini where i have no
0:50:18option i'm gonna have to get a bigger heavier phone in order to get the increased refresh rate
0:50:23i notice the increased refresh rate it is not remotely important enough to me to spend more
0:50:30money and get a bigger phone for it it's nice i i keep saying it's nice and nice doesn't mean i
0:50:35don't notice it nice means i just don't i'm not saying it's that important you don't notice it
0:50:39i'm like i think that there is like a spectrum between people like i know people that don't see
0:50:44it and then i like really see it on the iphone and you see it but don't see it as but don't care
0:50:50it's like a different equation but for me it's like oh my iphone's incredible now and it's so
0:50:56strange i will say like we've asked this question i do i definitely notice that the ipad mini doesn't
0:51:04have it even in like when compared to my ipad but with my ipad pro i feel like i don't see it as
0:51:11prominently as i do on my iphone i don't know how this can be answered but i think that there is just
0:51:18a people are different i guess and they see things differently and they prioritize things differently
0:51:25for themselves so as you we have no real answer for your question because we can't we we cannot
0:51:31give any kind of agreement and i also feel like no the answer is clearly that it's it's more
0:51:36important on the ipad because of the apple pencil and it's no no because because it doesn't it's not
0:51:42120 hertz on the apple pencil anyway and app devices that um don't do promotions still have high
0:51:51latency for the screen they use they use the 120 hertz to um be able to keep a closer track on
0:52:00and even fake it on the head of the pencil so it looks like your pencil sketch is moving exactly
0:52:07with your motions it's like one of the tricks that they do even though they're not registering
0:52:11at that refresh rate all right it's it's fine see thanks as you see what you did
0:52:16i picked the question i knew it was going to do this uh cj asks this was a theory i shared
0:52:23privately with some friends too and i want to see what you think about this do you think that the
0:52:28color names of midnight and starlight could have come from the rumored astrophotography mode for
0:52:34the iphone 13 that didn't materialize this year no you just think it was going to be this way anyway
0:52:40yes space they have space gray i mean this this was why i didn't this is why i didn't publicly
0:52:45share this because it's like well there is a precedent for like space and color being a thing
0:52:50for apple but it is interesting that the year they just they introduced these two new names
0:52:55was a year that they were expected to have some new astrophotography mode which i don't really
0:52:59know why that is an important feature to add to the camera anyway um like i still suck in mkbhd
0:53:07his view review i think for the iphone 13 pro like he referenced you know the iphone still doesn't
0:53:12have an astrophotography mode but i can still see the stars when i use night mode and it made
0:53:17me wonder like why do why do you need an astrophotography mode anyway like i don't know if
0:53:25i get it you're a space guy i don't i don't know i mean it would just be a different way of tuning
0:53:30the dark the you know night mode in order to focus on um the stuff that's in the sky and make sure
0:53:37that it comes out better and you know longer i mean it would just be a a tuned mode just for that
0:53:43i don't know why you would need that but yeah i don't i don't know because google has it maybe
0:53:48the answer i don't know i don't know if samsung have it but i know google do right so like i don't
0:53:52know if this is like a thing that's in a lot of phones but i don't particularly feel like i need
0:53:56it in my iphone maybe i just don't care about space enough maybe steven asked jason why did you
0:54:02upgrade to the iphone 13 mini we covered that we ended up covering this in in upgrade plus last
0:54:07week which uh it's because we forgot but the short version of it is that i one i want to support the
0:54:15iphone mini and i know that it's not going to make any difference for next year but like all the
0:54:20rumors are that it's going away so i want to spend money on it because i want to have uh i want it to
0:54:26be a sale and i also want to spend money on it because i know that there probably won't be one
0:54:31next year which means that i want the latest and greatest mini in order for it to fit uh in my hand
0:54:38and be useful even if i have to soldier on without an iphone 14 something next year because they
0:54:45aren't going to make one this size and so i kind of just want to have as much runway for the iphone
0:54:5113 mini as possible that's basically the reason for it if uh if steven's searching for a reason
0:54:56to upgrade over the iphone 12 mini you know again year-to-year upgrades are pretty small so there's
0:55:04not a great reason to do that battery the battery life is going to be better sure and then you know
0:55:10the camera's a little bit better and all that all that is true um but you know my thinking is much
0:55:15more about the fact that there's not going to be one next year and so i want this now if you want
0:55:20if you've got a honestly if you really love the mini and you've got a 12 mini your strategy could
0:55:25be wait till next year see what they announce and if you are confirmed that you really just want to
0:55:32stick with the mini maybe they'll cut the price on the iphone 13 mini and you can buy it next year
0:55:36for a reduced price um but that's that's sort of my thinking is i just i love the mini size and i
0:55:43want to have one that is a mind to have and to hold uh even richer and poorer for larger
0:55:50and larger and larger phones i can avoid those and just stick with my little buddy i actually have a
0:55:58related question which i think could be uh interesting because we're talking about like maybe
0:56:04it going away she wants from john and john asks do you think there will be a third gen iphone se and
0:56:10what form factor do you think it will have um well yeah i think that there will be and i think that
0:56:17it'll be the iphone 13 mini form factor in two years i think that's what it'll be that's this is
0:56:22what i wanted to ask this because i know you've mentioned that and i wanted to see if that stays
0:56:26the same for you so you think that the size kind of the physical size of the iphone 13 mini the
0:56:33mini sized phone could be the future of the se phone because right now it's the iphone 8 right
0:56:41it's basically the iphone se uh yeah so you think it could become the iphone mini in the future
0:56:48i it's i i realize that this is wish casting but um that's my hope is that the that the mini will
0:56:54write again in some form sometime somewhere and that's my best guess if they did do that
0:57:01would you go to the se do you think uh let's see what my mood is probably not i i'm probably
0:57:07resigned to the fact that if apple makes a dramatically better phone um which a two years
0:57:15from now model will be dramatically better undoubtedly that at some point i'm just gonna
0:57:19have to give up but um i'm gonna prolong it as long as i can and we'll see we'll see it's possible
0:57:28that they've led me off the beaten track and now i'm stuck with these small phones because i like
0:57:33them so much or it's possible that i'll i'll look over to the other side of the fence and realize
0:57:37the grass is greener and refreshed more quickly and jump over there but i'm not there this year
0:57:42yeah i'm not convinced that se means small phone because i'm not either but sometimes but it can be
0:57:53maybe like because they moved to the eight when they brought like the eight sides and they know
0:57:58where they were coming out with the mini right so there was always going to be a small phone in the
0:58:03lineup because the previous se was the small phone right then the se got bigger when they introduced
0:58:09a mini phone so if the mini is going to go away maybe the se becomes the small phone again right
0:58:16which would lend to this discussion this potential because maybe it's like we always want to have a
0:58:22small phone but we'll just decide where it lands and how much we charge for it so maybe the next
0:58:28se as you say could be in that mini form factor so at least that option is there for people that
0:58:34don't care about anything other than size yeah i think the question is what's apple's long-term
0:58:40kind of marketing project in terms of the old phones because apple do you need an se at all
0:58:48when you've got old phones and the answer is no unless there's something about an older phone
0:58:54model that you want to take off the price list that makes it special and not serving the need
0:59:00of an old phone and that's the one shot that the mini size has is that they look at their line of
0:59:08iphone 15s and they say well we can't really keep or the 16s we can't really keep the 13 mini around
0:59:16anymore and we've got other phones that are cheap but if we get rid of this one we're losing that
0:59:23category entirely maybe we need to keep it around but we gotta upgrade the guts of it so we'll call
0:59:29the se that would be the thought process right because i think that's really what the iphone se
0:59:33truly is is a model type that they want to keep around for whatever reason because otherwise it's
0:59:40not available anymore but they can't keep the old model around any longer so they have to upgrade it
0:59:45so they give it this not a name iphone se in order to do a revised version of it that they can keep
0:59:52in the price list and that might be i'm not convinced that it's size i'm also not convinced
0:59:58that it's price it may really just be a placeholder for a device we want to keep selling but we can't
1:00:06sell that one anymore you know when we're talking when you're talking about that i was thinking about
1:00:10like you know maybe one of the things they decided they wanted to keep around was a phone that has
1:00:15touch id on it right for people right and it just made me think over the last uh few days i've been
1:00:22noticing that i've been leaving my thumb on the lock button of my iphone to unlock it because i've
1:00:30been getting used to the ipad yeah so i've been unlocking my phone with the button and leaving my
1:00:37thumb on the button even though the phone's now unlocked because there's something in my brain
1:00:41that's telling me that that's how i unlock my phone because that's how i look my ipad my brain's
1:00:47silly very moldable uh talking about the ipad mini this question comes from carl how do your
1:00:54use cases for the ipad mini differ from those of your iphone if both are available to you in a given
1:01:00situation what would make you pick up one over the other this is a secondary sub question that i'll
1:01:08ask of you is are you still actually using the ipad mini i am okay and it has already survived
1:01:15longer than the last ipad mini when i tried to integrate it okay right because i want i got an
1:01:19ipad mini last time and i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna get it out of the box after i'd done the
1:01:24review i was like oh i hear all these people on podcasts i listen to talking about using the ipad
1:01:27mini as a reader i'm gonna get out of the box i lasted no time at all and i'm like this sucks
1:01:32and it was gone and that has not happened this time um i'm forcing myself to do it because
1:01:38i write about and talk about this stuff right so i'm forcing myself to use it in part to have that
1:01:45experience that's one of the great benefits of getting a review unit especially beyond the review
1:01:50is that i also get to then spend some extended time with it afterward and keep using it and have
1:01:55that personal experience so yes in fact this morning i decided i was going to read um my
1:02:04stuff that i read in the morning in bed while i'm drinking tea and having breakfast with the mini
1:02:10instead of my big ipad and so it was mini in vertical orientation and netnewswire instead of
1:02:17having the little sidebar the sidebar was closed so that i could have a good reading area and i
1:02:22was just sort of swiping through the items because you can also do that um and so it was a little bit
1:02:27different and i uh the other day i was outside it was a nice really warm day and i took a drink out
1:02:34to to our hammock in the backyard and i sat in the hammock with the ipad mini wow and i read and uh
1:02:40it's delightful and and and so my answer for carl would be i because i prefer the ipad in general
1:02:51i would choose the ipad over the iphone if both are available to me every time
1:02:58mostly because if both are available to me i'm at home and why not use the nice big screen even of
1:03:09the mini compared to the especially the iphone mini but even the ipad even the pro max the screen is
1:03:16not as not nearly as big as the ipad mini so if i'm in a scenario where i'm at home and i have a
1:03:21ipad available to me i'm going to choose the ipad over the iphone that's just me we're not massively
1:03:26different here really but oh i was i had a baseball game on and picture in picture while
1:03:30i was reading in the hammock by the way that's you could do that on an iphone but you don't
1:03:36don't do that it's much nicer with the i mean this is like the thing for me more than anything
1:03:42i think is ipad os because i have flexibility with my app experiences that i don't have on my iphone
1:03:51so like whilst you know split-screen multitasking and slide over is a much more cramped experience
1:03:57on the mini it's possible on the mini right which is i can't do any of these things on my iphone
1:04:03so if like i'm looking at my like i'm looking at some email or whatever and i want to bring up my
1:04:08calendar i can just do that right i can just bring up my calendar and now i have them both on screen
1:04:14together i'm using my iphone i'm going backwards and forwards backwards and forwards from app to
1:04:18app and so like i just have more available to me even if it's tiny it's still there i can still see
1:04:26it um it's better for video like if i'm watching video in general like has louder speakers it has
1:04:31a bigger screen right like i just i know the quality of the screen isn't as good right like
1:04:36i get that but that's not really what if i'm watching a video on a small device i'm not looking
1:04:43for the best quality right like i bigger is better rather than like black levels you think it's not
1:04:51you know sorry martin scorsese i guess i don't know uh screens as well martin scorsese doesn't
1:04:56want you watching his movies on your phone either that's true and to be honest i don't i would
1:05:01prefer not to watch a martin scorsese movie on my phone right like you know like marty i agree but
1:05:07sometimes what am i going to do anyway uh the screen provides a better reading experience in
1:05:14general right more information on the page and you benefit from applications being laid out differently
1:05:22on ipad than on a phone so the information density is very different the way that things are laid out
1:05:30is very different so like i just think for basically pretty much anything similar to you that
1:05:35i would want to do when i'm at home the ipad mini is a better option than my phone like it's for
1:05:42give me something and it's better right like it's better for messaging it's better for social media
1:05:47or you know it's better for video like it's just it's for me it's just always a better experience
1:05:52and i've always felt that way about the ipad but the ipad mini specifically benefits from its
1:05:58portability and ease of use over any of the other ipad models because it's so easy to hold and get
1:06:05like just to take advantage of so it's fantastic yeah i agree i'm i'm jason i love my ipad mini so
1:06:12much i love it so much i i really i really love my iphone my ipad mini that is my favorite product
1:06:20that apple's released this year so if i think about us as as not normal people which is probably
1:06:26how i should think about us always weird people we're even abnormal within an abnormal group
1:06:32yeah right so my point is no reasonable person sorry i'm one of you if you feel offended by this
1:06:41i'm also insulting myself i guess no reasonable person is going to say well what i do is i have
1:06:46my ipad pro for certain tasks and my ipad mini for certain tasks and my laptop for certain tests and
1:06:50my desktop computer right your regular person is going to have to choose so me having the different
1:06:57size ipads to choose from is is not a common i would say use case but i will say this if you're
1:07:03one of those people and i've noticed some people popping out of the woodwork who who i i've
1:07:08identified as like ah you're this person like stephen hackett is this person if you're one of
1:07:12these people who's like i want to use the ipad and i like the ipad but i don't like it that much right
1:07:19like if i want to do all this other stuff that the ipad can do you know i'm over here editing
1:07:25podcasts on it but like some people are just like yeah i'll use my mac for that i don't want to i
1:07:30don't want to do that for the ipad i like the ipad but i don't use it and i think i actually have a
1:07:34theory and i this comes from observing my mother um where she was she had netflix for a while and
1:07:40she kept talking about how she wasn't using it enough and so then she canceled it and it's it's
1:07:46a little bit like the new yorker issue where people um cancel the new yorker not because they
1:07:50don't like what they read in it but because they don't read all of it and the issues pile up and so
1:07:54then they cancel it because they don't like the burden it's like a burden of i'm sure there's a
1:07:58business school term for it that somebody wrote a book and made a billion dollars uh selling their
1:08:02book about it it's the burden of unused portions of your subscription offering or your your device
1:08:10or whatever it is it's the burden of unused portions and i've noticed that a lot of people
1:08:16feel that way about the ipad that a lot of people are like yeah i like the ipad but i like it for
1:08:22like this really simple stuff and i know you can edit podcasts with it and i know that you can do
1:08:28shortcuts and i know you can do spreadsheets and but i all i really want to do is like read on it
1:08:34and they and it like makes the ipad feel worse because they're not using it to its fullest
1:08:41i would argue that that's irrational but i also understand humans are irrational so what i find
1:08:48with the ipad mini is it almost gives those people license to like an ipad without it having to be
1:08:56a computer replacement right it gives them a little bit more freedom to be like this is a
1:09:02great little reading device and i'm never going to do all those productivity things that federico
1:09:06writes about on the ipad pro with this thing even though you could i'm not going to and it's okay
1:09:12because it's just a little ipad mini and i use it for reading and isn't it nice and i think that's
1:09:17great because yes to all of that like if you're not somebody who is like super sold on the ipad
1:09:22lifestyle but does has tried an ipad and it's like yeah i like it it's nice but i i'm never going to
1:09:26use it for all the things that it can be used for so you know what is it what good is it to me here's
1:09:32your answer which is i think for most people having an ipad mini that you could just use in
1:09:38the morning or wherever your wind down time is to read a book or look at your rss feeds or check
1:09:46that newspaper app or scroll through doom scroll through twitter if you want to whatever it can do
1:09:52all of those things and is super light and nice and easy to hold and pleasant to look at and that
1:09:59folio case is really great on it and i like i can't say a bad thing about it it will also it
1:10:05will do everything that the pro ipad users want it to do it actually does all those things too
1:10:12but you don't have to worry about it like don't feel bad about it just uh read your books and read
1:10:17your newspapers and and be happy and that like that's why i think it really hits the sweet spot
1:10:22for all these people who maybe feel like they're not proper ipad users in a way and that they're
1:10:28wasting the ipad's potential i feel like the ipad mini maybe just takes the burden off a little bit
1:10:33anyway that's my theory i love it this is the i love that that that whole line this is the best
1:10:38content consumption ipad yeah and you should like feel no guilt about it right feel no guilt you
1:10:44could do stuff if you want you can answer your emails like you can have it i would actually say
1:10:49that one of my issues with it and actually one of the reasons why i think focus mode is such a good
1:10:53idea on the ipad mini is the reason i use like a kindle is because i don't get push notifications
1:10:59i can't switch over to twitter all i have to do is read the one problem with the ipad mini is the ipad
1:11:04is so capable that you can do all this other stuff with it and i would actually recommend that if you
1:11:11use one of these things resist temptation when possible turn off notifications go into a focus
1:11:17mode if you need to don't install all the apps that you normally do and and make it a simpler
1:11:22device because it can be as complex as you want it to be it can be as complex as an ipad pro or your
1:11:27phone it doesn't have to be and i think maybe it's better if it's not this episode is brought to you
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1:13:13and all every layer of m should we do more #askupgrade questions there you go i just wanted
1:13:18to give you the opportunity to get some thank you thank you know we got a second set of lasers now
1:13:22it's just how it has to be yeah snape asked how long did it take for downstream to go from idea
1:13:28to reality huh okay well the story starts when we did the christmas carol episode of upgrade
1:13:34i guess when fedorico as the ghost of of the future which at some point we're going to need
1:13:40to go back and score all of the things he predicted he suggested that that upstream
1:13:47would become its own podcast and i have to say that planted a seed with me i'm like will it
1:13:55might it and at the time it didn't make sense i was resistant of it to be to be fair i didn't want
1:14:01to do that um yeah i like i like upstream as part of this show and you'd floated it with me a couple
1:14:08of times and we'd spoken about it a few times because people had always mentioned it or asked
1:14:11for it or suggested it or whatever and i was very much that i wanted to keep it as part of upgrade
1:14:18right and and it did make sense so a couple of things happened one is that i stopped doing tv
1:14:24talk machine because tim goodman retired from tv criticism got a development deal to write in
1:14:29scripts maybe he'll make a tv show someday if they buy his scripts we'll see um but that took me it
1:14:37meant that i wasn't talking about it weekly with tim and we talk about it some um but i felt like
1:14:43there was potential for something else and to fill that that hole the the tv talk machine sized hole
1:14:49in my heart um so i just kind of like left it out there and then um julia so a couple of things
1:14:59happened a couple of people changed jobs who were people that i've been watching for a while and
1:15:04thinking about talking you know tv on and and streaming on podcast with and um one of them was
1:15:11julia who left she went from from vox to ign and then she went to parrot analytics and i had that
1:15:18thought of like oh she's kind of a free agent analyst now doesn't have a podcast we had that
1:15:25we had that guest slot where you were going to be gone and did i consider that kind of a test of
1:15:31whether we could do a podcast about that together yes i did i absolutely thought um this would be a
1:15:38great episode of upgrade and we would see if it was uh if it worked out maybe we would explore
1:15:42further and i thought it went really well so then we recorded a zero episode and got some podcast
1:15:47art and here we are um but it was i was keeping my eye on it but i was also not gonna strike and
1:15:52then you and i talked about it too because i mean it is kind of a bummer like you're like you know
1:15:57you would like first off you would like to be involved but the challenge is you are a very busy
1:16:01person yes i mean i'm a busy person too but i i really do feel like i have held this slot open
1:16:06since tvtm ended last year where i have room for another podcast project and i did the 20 max
1:16:13project last year so it's really that slot and more so you know was filled but this year i've
1:16:18been thinking like i have room for this particular project if it ever works out and so you and i
1:16:25talked about it and you know i'm still hoping that you can be involved with downstream in some way
1:16:31whether it's replacing me sometimes or guesting or whatever i i would like to keep you involved
1:16:37but being having you involved in like every episode is not practical for you and it doesn't
1:16:41really make sense you you you you when you had the like you like were confident on the idea you
1:16:48brought it to me and we spoke about it and it hurt me because i want to do it yeah like this is a
1:16:55show that like it's a thing that i really care about especially talking to a new person who i
1:17:00really respect and obviously jason too i love jason i'm not a new person not a new person just
1:17:06oh i was gonna say an old person i respect but i don't mean that either i do respect you straighten
1:17:12up sunny but it was i made a promise to myself that i wasn't going to start new shows yeah i
1:17:19already do too many i didn't i didn't also want to be the devil on your shoulder being like
1:17:24another podcast mike another podcast and i didn't want to i didn't want to be that but i'm leaving
1:17:29the door open because um i i would love for you to be involved as the show goes on even if it is
1:17:35just sort of guesting or guest hosting um or stuff like that will you because i do know you are
1:17:40enthusiastic about this but to make another commitment for another show um was not something
1:17:45you should do and julia is great like i've been i've been watching her uh writing and tweeting
1:17:50and stuff for years now and i've thought that it's all really great stuff and in and uh and i'm hoping
1:17:56we'll have some other guests and stuff on as the show goes too because there's there's a few people
1:17:59out there who i keep thinking are like just so smart about this stuff and i want to um this is a
1:18:04show that i want to listen to right and so like tv talk machine which literally i revived because i
1:18:11wanted it back and i was like tim uh they're not having to do a podcast at the hollywood reporter
1:18:17could we bring the tv talk machine back and he's like yeah sure if you do all the work and just
1:18:22i'll just talk and i said i can make that happen so we did it for a few years and it was great so
1:18:27um so yeah this is that's the that's the story um it depends on how you want to uh frame it
1:18:34but i would say it wasn't really real until i was scheduling that guest episode with mike out
1:18:41and i thought actually this would be a really great subject and if it goes well maybe that's
1:18:46a podcast and it did go well and it is a podcast and hopefully it will go on from here a fanatical
1:18:52asks thoughts on the new ipad mini as a replacement for paper planners or journals
1:18:59or even as a companion to a paper product this is the thing that i sent to you and i said mike i
1:19:05want us to cover this one i don't know if it was already in our show doc or not but i i thought
1:19:09i want to hear what mike says about this this is a mike question i i was very excited to because i
1:19:14find this fascinating right like where does it something like an ipad mini does it fit in does
1:19:18it replace does it augment is it not is it out of bounds and not the right thing at all i i and i
1:19:24don't know because i don't i don't care about this stuff and i know you do so i want to know what you
1:19:28think i could see this being an option for people i i think people that specifically use an ipad and
1:19:36apple pencil for a note-taking device could find the ipad mini to be a good thing however i do
1:19:45i am maybe a little worried or concerned some people that they see this product and they see
1:19:50its size and they're like this is a notebook right but the dimensions of the ipad mini
1:19:56i actually find it quite constraining for note-taking so i like a5 right this is your
1:20:04typical notebook size that kind of size the a5 ish size because paper standards are a whole other
1:20:11thing but the a5 ish size is approximately 148 by 210 millimeters right that's your dimensions
1:20:19the ipad mini's screen is 116 by 176 millimeters so while that might not seem like a ton it's a
1:20:31it's a pretty big difference so you're looking at like say the width i find is the hardest part so
1:20:39you're looking at the ipad mini being 11.6 centimeters to an a5 notebook being 14.8 centimeters
1:20:46so i found it for myself to be a little cramped for handwriting in portrait which is how i would
1:20:51typically want to take notes on the device anyway so i don't know for me this would not be something
1:21:00that i would use as a replacement for a paper journal or a planner it could be very good for
1:21:07just general note-taking stuff you know like fire up an app like notability i'm on a meeting or a
1:21:12call i could take notes on it and i would do i do this on my other ipads so i you know i found it to
1:21:17be cramped but your mileage may vary there but in general i am a well i am a person who makes a paper
1:21:25journal product it's called the theme system in case you're unaware of this it's available at
1:21:30cortexmerch.com it's a product that me and cgb gray created together based around and it's like
1:21:35a system and a product so like the idea of yearly themes turning that into something that you live
1:21:41your life by and creating a journal product that can help you enforce this idea i have never wanted
1:21:47to journal on an ipad anyway like i think that there is something important in sitting down with
1:21:53pen and paper and writing out my thoughts that way the tactility of it feels important to me it's like
1:21:58a daily ritual kind of thing and using an ipad using any kind of digital device even typing it
1:22:03just doesn't feel the same and i expect i expect this is a similar feeling to people say for
1:22:10example who prefer to read paper books to digital books right that like there's just a thing about
1:22:16reading on the book which is better than reading on the screen for people that because it's beyond
1:22:22the information it's you know the tactility of it and there's all sorts of other reasons for it
1:22:26and i i don't you know i almost entirely read on ebooks now but i get it i get it i get why people
1:22:33feel that way and honestly i get that way i get that tactility for things that that matter if that
1:22:41makes any sense like the books that i buy are like i buy them because they're big or because they're
1:22:46beautiful and color printed and you wanna you wanna leaf through them like i don't buy paperbacks
1:22:53and stuff because the all the there's no there's no specialness about that that it's just words on
1:23:01a page and at that point it might as well be words on a screen for me and i feel like if you're going
1:23:06to go to the trouble of doing something like journaling it isn't just about the words on the
1:23:11page right it's about more than that and and that tips it over into wanting something more and
1:23:16different i i also there's utility that i would throw in here which is there's different kinds of
1:23:23utility obviously but i was thinking about like if you're taking notes in a class and you really
1:23:29prefer and you remember better taking notes longhand the utility of using the ipad is that
1:23:37it's going to scan what you write and make it searchable and you can keep all those things
1:23:43searchable and available to you on all your devices and syncable right there's lots of utility in doing
1:23:48that so if your ultimate goal is to have this stuff come out of your pen but also be findable
1:23:54and reachable as you're going through your course or future courses and you know your whole area of
1:24:00study there's a utility to using an ipad if what you're doing is journaling and the process of it
1:24:07is part of the utility and you're not really needing to go back and do a full text search
1:24:14of your journaling then it you know it falls on the other side of it it's like that's why i don't
1:24:22have a paper to-do list because i want my tasks to be available to me everywhere like i don't have
1:24:29a paper calendar i want my calendar appointments to be available to me everywhere and different
1:24:36people do these things in different ways like for example there are some some meetings that i'm on
1:24:41i'll just use a pad in front of me and just write some stuff down but if it's a big meeting where i
1:24:45know i'm going to need that information later i'll get my ipad and apple pencil and because now it's
1:24:51it's in notes or it's in notability or whatever and it's searchable and like backed up and just
1:24:58available to me on my iphone later on if i need to refer back to it or whatever you know i think
1:25:03there's a there's a mode switching that's important and kate in the chat room made a good point that i
1:25:08want to mention again too which is i don't okay i don't do this so i'm giving you a i'm giving you
1:25:15advice about a thing i don't do but i would strongly advise that if you do use uh apple
1:25:21pencil and an ipad to take notes that you just let it take notes as ink don't try to convert it to
1:25:29text or anything like that because what you want to do is emulate putting it down on paper and what
1:25:35happens in the background is the stuff that is in ink is searchable and you skip the step where it
1:25:42it makes mistakes and turns your what you wrote into the wrong word and then you have to fix it
1:25:46you don't want to ever break your thought process by doing that and the beauty about searchability
1:25:51and the way apple does searchability of handwritten text and i know i've mentioned this before but
1:25:55i'll throw it in there again all of these ocr engines what they do is they come up with a list
1:26:00of words it might be and a percentage of what they of confidence and when you're writing and they
1:26:07don't have to convert it if they have to convert it they have to pick one right and it might be the
1:26:10wrong one if they don't have to convert it they index all the words it might be and when you do
1:26:16a search you will find it uh and and so it's actually much better than you'd think to search
1:26:23for handwritten text in a note than it is that the accuracy you get when you have it converting your
1:26:30handwritten text to text if that makes sense yeah because it's not making it doesn't have to commit
1:26:35to one set of words yeah exactly because you're not reading it it's just in the search index and
1:26:41so the search index lies the search index has got well this could be um you know a bear or it could
1:26:48be bore or it could be here or it could be fear or it could be near let's put them all in there
1:26:55and then when you search for grizzly bear it will say well i've got this one it's grizzly and then
1:27:00one of the things it could be is bear so it's a search result you can also make yourself laugh
1:27:06if you've ever searched a bunch of handwritten stuff you search for a word and you find that
1:27:10some stuff that's totally not that word that's because it was confused but uh anyway it's it's
1:27:16good in that way and so i think that this stuff is is pretty pretty searchable and i think it's
1:27:20pretty brilliant and even me even me mike who is not a fan of pens and paper if i were in college
1:27:29today i think this is how i would take notes is apple pencil oh yeah written out because i think
1:27:35that it's better for kind of brain focus and uh remembering things and thinking about things and
1:27:43then having it all accessible later where i'm not having to rifle through a notebook somewhere love
1:27:48it great idea all right next question comes from shah who asks do you think apple will ever release
1:27:54an apple watch pro i mean it's a marketing question in some ways because they already make
1:28:01high-end apple watches and they used to be called addition i don't think they could have called that
1:28:06anymore i think really the question here is is apple ever going to make a mainstream set of apple
1:28:11watches that are differentiated on core hardware features where they've got two different kinds
1:28:19and the core hardware the naked robotic core hardware features are are different that there's
1:28:27one that does more and if you would ask me this question in the early days of the iphone i would
1:28:33have said no and obviously it did end up happening many years later so never say never but in the
1:28:39short run i don't think that this is how they're going to differentiate now they may call something
1:28:43a pro although that i don't think they will but they may but it feels to me much more likely that
1:28:49what apple is going to do is focus on iterating on that core part and then how they market apple
1:28:56watches is going to be about the wrapper that goes around it and pro and and simpler models
1:29:03that are cheaper that are older or that are like an se kind of thing again that rather than it being
1:29:12you know here are our two brand new watches and this one has more cores or something like i i just
1:29:18i feel like the apple watch is much more of a widget where they'll just keep making a new
1:29:22widget every year and wrapping a bunch of interesting things around it and like we've
1:29:25talked about here the idea of a super ruggedized version but the naked robotic core at the center
1:29:30of it is going to just be that and if they make a super fancy one i feel like materials is the place
1:29:35where they iterate they make nicer materials and give you nicer material options rather than it
1:29:40being you know a slightly upgraded widget but the iphone got to the point where that it made sense
1:29:48for them to iterate like this so it could happen on the watch but i don't see it anytime soon
1:29:52jake asks did you have to do anything jason to make the top of the safari 15
1:29:58window match the color changing nav bar on six colors dot com
1:30:02oh yes um yes a very nice uh six color subscriber who is a web developer named dan ryan
1:30:14um sent me a javascript that does this so it originally when the first safari 15 betas came
1:30:21out i i put in a randomizer so every time you loaded the page the color at the top would be
1:30:27at the top like in your browser chrome would be one of the six colors um because if you don't know
1:30:34if you sit on six colors dot com on any page long enough and stare at the nav bar it cycles through
1:30:41all the colors doesn't just it starts with green but it keeps going so dan ryan wrote a javascript
1:30:47that basically looks at the nav bar color and matches it as the header color that's in the
1:30:54browser chrome however there are some issues with this that that dan addressed so all thanks to dan
1:31:00for doing this for free just for fun because he thought it was fun um it doesn't rotate when you're
1:31:06not when the browser uh or when the menu bar for six colors is not available because if you can
1:31:13imagine reading a long article and you're down on the page and your top of your safari window keeps
1:31:18pulsating in different colors very disturbing so if if the pulsation of the of the menu bar is off
1:31:24your screen it stops and then if it comes back in it snaps back to whatever color the the nav bar on
1:31:30sixcolors.com is and then in dark mode it does it snaps to nearby colors it's not quite the same
1:31:38behavior and that's mostly because a lot of these six colors colors conflict with the browser chrome
1:31:44in dark mode and so it looks weird so it doesn't look i think it's best um experienced in light
1:31:51mode yeah because i'm looking at it right now and it seems like i mean i don't know if this is the
1:31:56intended it changes only but it doesn't have all the hues yeah that's that's because the rotating
1:32:03through all the hues in dark mode it basically uh safari is like nope not going to use that color and
1:32:08so it starts not colored and then it suddenly appears colored and the colors come and go in
1:32:13weird ways so the dark mode behavior is totally different but in light mode it will actually match
1:32:18if the website nav bar is visible um and it will stop if the website nav bar is not visible
1:32:27there i've described an easter egg to you but it's an easter egg within an easter egg it's coloring
1:32:32the scroll bar for me too is that expected it's it's whatever safari picks up when you set the
1:32:38theme color of a page yeah and again you can turn this feature off but uh if it's on uh and you're
1:32:50experiencing the rainbow might of the six colors nav bar you will also experience it in other places
1:33:00i upgraded to uh safari 15 today on my mac i like some most of it what i'll say we know what i'll
1:33:11say is i like some parts of it a lot and i'm not that bothered about the other parts right so like
1:33:17i really like tab groups it's a feature i've enjoyed and i want them on my mac now so now i
1:33:22have them and i've created a new one today which is really good which is like the four tabs i need
1:33:27when i'm recording a show so i now have a recording tab group and that's really great that so it keeps
1:33:31things nice and consistent for me nice the one thing i've noticed i don't know how to i've tried
1:33:37to change this if people can give me the exact steps i need to do this great but now it seems
1:33:42like now when i open window when i click a link somewhere saying messages it always opens a new
1:33:47window in safari it's not opening things in new tabs it doesn't seem to and there's a setting which
1:33:53you would think would fix this but it doesn't seem to which is open pages in tabs instead of windows
1:33:58and if you say oh i click it to always and it says yes always create tabs and then i click a link and
1:34:05it opens a new window huh i'm not really sure why it's doing that that that might be an unintended
1:34:11functionality might be a bug and i think i can understand why it might be freaking out because
1:34:18it's like which tab group do you want this window to this tab to appear in right i think that might
1:34:23be why it's like right right but it could it could i don't know i mean it could also just be like
1:34:30whatever tab group is currently open that's what i would want to do and then i can move it around as
1:34:34i need right so like i don't know if i've got something weird going on here i'll keep my eye on
1:34:39that um the other thing that i would like to be able to do i wanted to do this on my ipad i really
1:34:45want to do it on my mac now is to be able to pin tabs within a tab group because you can pin tabs
1:34:52in the standard non-tab group tabs right you know yes on mac on the mac i would like to be able to
1:35:00pin tabs within a tab group so i love pin tabs i use them on this less ui and they stay fixed and
1:35:07i'm glad they're still there i am very frustrated that they never made it their way to the ipad
1:35:14and i am frustrated that they don't exist on in uh in the tab groups so i'm with you there i i
1:35:21feel like apple has decided that pin tabs are not a thing and that they remain where they were
1:35:28stuck on that one group in the on the mac but the fact that they did not migrate to pin tabs
1:35:34or to uh to tab groups bums me out because i like them too i like them a lot and would like to see
1:35:41them in different contexts and for those who don't know this is you you take a tab and you drag it
1:35:45all the way to the left on the mac and it becomes well now it used to be a tab and now it's a little
1:35:50box and it's sort of like a permanent tab that is always there for the site that you drag over there
1:35:58and if you go to that tab and navigate within that site it actually stays within the little pin tab
1:36:02and if you exit that site it opens a new tab with wherever you're going and i have three of those
1:36:08and i use it all the time when you say when you describe it like that that's also kind of tab
1:36:13groups right where it's like you can go wherever you want on that page you go on another device
1:36:18and you're also there too like you know it's like it sinks the progress but i still want to do pin
1:36:23tabs they're literally tabs i don't understand why apple can't sync them call have a little
1:36:30identity this is this is a pinned tab and then also display them at least on the ipad but they
1:36:36they they don't they never did and they still haven't um i upgraded my imac to moderate okay
1:36:45i mean the moderate beta but it's it's going to be final yeah obviously i'm still in big
1:36:50sir but safari 15 is now available on big sir and so my you know i've been using it all summer but
1:36:57now it's on in my face at my main mac all the time and you know john grouper and i thoroughly
1:37:04demolished um safari 15 tabs on the talk show last week um i hate them uh i really like tab groups
1:37:12but i hate the design of the tabs and i and most of all like we can all get fussy about design and
1:37:19say why do they like but the tabs were also use a usability issue where it was it used to be much
1:37:26clearer which tab was the current tab and where you were you could at a glance determine where you
1:37:32were and now it's not and that's what they have to fix we can you know they can solve it however
1:37:38they want they don't have to necessarily revert it to the way it was but they gotta do better than it
1:37:43currently exists because it's very very difficult to detect uh which tab is the active tab and the
1:37:50fact that often it's the least readable tab that's the active tab that's just backward so that
1:37:57frustrates me uh it still frustrates me and as i said to john last week it feels very much like they
1:38:04they they stopped everything when all the criticism came in they fixed up the iphone as much as they
1:38:13could and then they seem to just give up on making any more changes to the ipad and the mac
1:38:19and it's a i don't understand it i don't understand what motivated them it feels very much like they
1:38:24were motivated by something that they then gave up on but they kept all the changes that they made
1:38:28anyway and i don't see any benefit to what they did here i think it makes tab groups worse and
1:38:36tab groups are good so it should make them better anyway i don't like them oh i just want to just
1:38:43like for just state for the record i'm fine with it like i don't like it but i'm not really mad
1:38:51about it like i know a lot of people are really mad all of my friends are really mad about it
1:38:56and i just like i'm like what i'm kind of like whatever about it like i'm not like oh everyone's
1:39:04being uh silly for being so upset don't feel that right like because i agree with what you're saying
1:39:09i agree with what everybody's saying but just me i'm kind of just like this is fine like i can deal
1:39:16with this all right i mean i can we can deal with a lot of things but i look at it and i think if
1:39:20i'm somebody who writes and talks about what apple does um i need to i need to be honest when i think
1:39:26that apple has blown it and i agree i'm not saying anything you're saying or anyone else is saying is
1:39:32wrong right like this is what like yeah i feel like you've thought that i'm getting worked up
1:39:36worked up about it because you know it's annoying but doesn't rise to a past a certain level with
1:39:42you i guess i think that's exactly it like if i i agree with what you're saying but this is just
1:39:48it's just not something that i'm that fussed about i don't know why but like you know i
1:39:52okay i get upset about lots of things like everybody else but it's fair this is one of
1:39:56those ones that hasn't gotten me too much and i couldn't get as enthusiastic about
1:40:01promotion on the iphone as everybody has different things that they get worked up about positively and
1:40:08negatively and this is like for me i think one of the things that is really like that i'm willing to
1:40:13accept it is i love the tab groups feature so much i'm willing to make a like to excuse a lot
1:40:18of features in safari right like i'm just like fine whatever like yeah and for me i mean am i
1:40:23am i using safari well yeah i am am i gonna run to chrome or something like that i'm not it's not
1:40:28gonna happen but i i do think it's literally my job to call it out and say they should do better
1:40:36so i'm you know that's i i i would love to see them tidy up a little bit like maybe you have
1:40:41you have enough other people working in this business who care about it more than you that
1:40:44you don't you know you're you're not the last line of safari defense yeah i don't feel like i need to
1:40:49make a stand for something that i find mildly distasteful because everybody else is really
1:40:54upset about it and doing the job you know yeah exactly you don't oh that happens to me all the
1:40:59time mike i gotta say that happens to me all the time and i know you and i talk about it it's like
1:41:03there are issues that come up and people some people step forward and they're like this shall
1:41:07be my issue and i am going to and and you sit there and go oh i don't disagree but i don't want
1:41:14this to be my issue and you just let it go you can't you can't get that way about it you gotta
1:41:20you gotta pick your spots and so if i'm writing a mac os review which i totally am i have it on my
1:41:27mind because i'm gonna rip them a new one it's it's you know i as a critic of operating systems
1:41:34i have to do that like it's just it's my job to do that and so i'm in that mind but i totally
1:41:40understand looking at and being like i agree with you but not my fight gonna let somebody else you
1:41:47you all fight that one out uh good luck i i'm with you but way back here not not not literally right
1:41:55on the front i'm not i don't need to be on the front line of this one i feel you but i'm i'm not
1:42:00with you yeah and that's like this is like a thing in general right like people write in they're like
1:42:06i can't believe you're not talking about this on the show and it's like it's because i a lot
1:42:12it's like i just don't have something to say about it you know well and honestly the other this is
1:42:18super meta now but honestly part of it is i don't want to do a topic an injustice by talking about
1:42:30it when i know that it matters but i don't really care about it if that makes sense right i get that
1:42:36like like if we bring something up on upgrade and dive into it because we feel we have to
1:42:44and we don't care about it that much like what is that like why do we why do we waste our time why
1:42:52do we waste the listeners time with something and so that's how i read a lot of those emails
1:42:56which is like i can't believe you didn't talk about this it's like well we can't talk about
1:42:59there's nobody talking about this jason and i i don't i don't know i can't believe it i can't
1:43:04believe you didn't mention which is my least favorite thing that i ever hear about anything
1:43:09i do on the internet i can't believe you didn't mention this thing that matters to me and like
1:43:13well it didn't matter to me sorry it didn't so i i think there's that too which is you got to pick
1:43:18your spots and pick things that you care about and maybe you can add to the conversation about so
1:43:22uh thank you for listening to me rant about safari 15 tabs uh tab groups are nice i agree you know
1:43:28what though the upgrade ends if you do have a thing that you want to hear us talk about and
1:43:34we haven't spoken about it there's one place for it you can send in a tweet with the hashtag ask
1:43:38upgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the relay fm members discord this section does
1:43:43actually do a lot for this for us because there will sometimes be a thing which i know is a thing
1:43:48that people will bother about oh yeah bring it into ask upgrade because we can talk about it for
1:43:53two minutes and move on like we don't need to make it like a big thing so this is a great segment for
1:43:59that exact thing thank you for listening to this week's episode of upgrade and thank you to fitbaud
1:44:04smile and squarespace for the support of the show if you would like ad-free longer episodes of
1:44:09upgrade every single week just go to get upgrade plus dot com and you can sign up thank you to
1:44:13everybody that supports the show by doing so if you want to find jason online you can go to
1:44:17sixcolors.com and if you're on safari 15 you can have yourself a little bit there
1:44:21into the colors if that's something that you're into you can go to jace at jason l on twitter
1:44:27j s n e double l i am at i mike i m y k e and don't forget to check out downstream at relay.fm
1:44:34we'll be back next time until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike early