Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 372. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Doordash, and LinkedIn Jobs. My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Myke, how have we done 372 of these? How is that possible?

00:00:22 ◼   ► Just like the way we're doing it now, but-- One week at a time? Sometimes--

00:00:26 ◼   ► There you go. Sometimes two in a week if--

00:00:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Apple surprises us?

00:00:30 ◼   ► But always one. Sometimes two.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Always one at a time. That's what Ted Lasso would tell you,

00:00:35 ◼   ► is you got to take them one at a time. Just one step at a time.

00:00:37 ◼   ► I have a #SnellTalk question for you. It comes from Jason, not you. Who asks--

00:00:41 ◼   ► Okay.

00:00:42 ◼   ► What may I have in my possession first, an Apple Watch Series 7 or a Playdate?

00:00:46 ◼   ► Well, it depends on your Playdate number, I suppose.

00:00:49 ◼   ► It does depend on the Playdate number. It does. But let's assume, for the sake of this

00:00:53 ◼   ► conversation, that Jason was in the first batch of Playdates.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Well, and I mean, I have a Playdate coming, and I'm going to buy an Apple Watch Series 7.

00:01:02 ◼   ► So this could be me. I'm going to say the Apple Watch,

00:01:07 ◼   ► mostly because Apple has experience shipping products to customers and Panic doesn't.

00:01:14 ◼   ► So I love Panic, and I'm looking forward to the Playdate. But if I had to choose between Apple

00:01:19 ◼   ► supply chain and Panics, I'm going to choose Apples.

00:01:23 ◼   ► I would say Apple too, because Panic is like by the end of the year, and Apple says fall.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:31 ◼   ► So if we're assuming that they both can do what they say they're going to do,

00:01:36 ◼   ► I would still say that Apple seems like the easier bet there.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Yeah. But still, I'm looking forward to both.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Both.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Let me get both. Yeah.

00:01:43 ◼   ► I'm look-- I've made a decision, by the way, for the Apple Watch.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Yes. Oh, okay.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Gold stainless steel.

00:01:52 ◼   ► I feel like you were leaning that way even last week when we talked.

00:01:56 ◼   ► And gold Milanese.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Yeah?

00:01:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:59 ◼   ► I know you like that.

00:02:00 ◼   ► People sending me pictures of their gold and gold, and it looks real good.

00:02:03 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right. And then you put on the white coat, and what else is your outfit that

00:02:11 ◼   ► goes with that? There's a whole outfit that goes with that.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Federica came up with an outfit. I don't remember what it was,

00:02:15 ◼   ► but it was mostly white and a flowery shirt, I think.

00:02:17 ◼   ► A flowery shirt.

00:02:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:19 ◼   ► That's right.

00:02:19 ◼   ► But that's where I'm going to go. I'm going to go all gold, I think.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:22 ◼   ► But with maybe a blue sport loop, too. I think it'll look really good with the gold.

00:02:27 ◼   ► And I am leaning toward black titanium.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Mmm. Treat yourself, Jason Snell.

00:02:32 ◼   ► A little bit. Maybe so.

00:02:33 ◼   ► If you'd like to send in a #SnellTalk question to help us open the show,

00:02:38 ◼   ► just send out a tweet with the hashtag #SnellTalk

00:02:40 ◼   ► or use ?SnellTalk in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:02:43 ◼   ► I'd like to give everybody an update on our St. Jude campaign.

00:02:47 ◼   ► We just completed the third annual Podcastathon last Friday.

00:02:54 ◼   ► It was a Friday.

00:02:56 ◼   ► Thank you. I'm a little bit out of sorts today. I'll say that.

00:03:00 ◼   ► I'm still kind of getting back to life after having completed the Podcastathon,

00:03:05 ◼   ► then bringing Mega Studio back up to a working order.

00:03:07 ◼   ► And now we're here on Monday. I've kind of worked all through the weekend.

00:03:11 ◼   ► But it was an incredible success with the Podcastathon.

00:03:13 ◼   ► We raised, I think, over $110,000 during the Podcastathon itself.

00:03:18 ◼   ► And we have now passed as a community over $500,000.

00:03:23 ◼   ► That is half of a million dollars raised this year alone,

00:03:27 ◼   ► which is absolutely unbelievable.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Like an amount that I could have only jumped about

00:03:32 ◼   ► because September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:03:36 ◼   ► So we are working to support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

00:03:40 ◼   ► in finding cures and saving children.

00:03:42 ◼   ► For almost 60 years, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

00:03:45 ◼   ► has been on the front lines of research care and treatment of childhood cancer.

00:03:49 ◼   ► Treatments that are invented at St. Jude have helped push the overall

00:03:52 ◼   ► childhood cancer survival rate from 20% to more than 80% since opening.

00:03:57 ◼   ► And St. Jude won't stop until no child dies from cancer, but they need our support.

00:04:01 ◼   ► So go to stjude.org/relay. You can donate today.

00:04:06 ◼   ► If you make a single gift of $100 or more,

00:04:08 ◼   ► you'll receive an exclusive sticker thanks pack at the end of the campaign.

00:04:12 ◼   ► And don't forget, if your company matches donations,

00:04:15 ◼   ► please send an email to stephen@relay.fm and we can put those into the campaign too.

00:04:19 ◼   ► And then your money is doubled by your employer.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Go to stjude.org/relay to support St. Jude. Let's cure childhood cancer together.

00:04:26 ◼   ► And if you do want to catch up with the podcast,

00:04:29 ◼   ► if you haven't seen it, it's uploaded to YouTube now,

00:04:33 ◼   ► so you can go and watch it in all of its glory.

00:04:36 ◼   ► We also have an audio only version in a feed that we have called the departures feed.

00:04:42 ◼   ► Godspeed to you if you decide to listen to it in audio only.

00:04:45 ◼   ► I don't know what that experience would be like.

00:04:48 ◼   ► I think it's better for video, but hey, you do you.

00:04:54 ◼   ► Oh, and we've also got a bunch of other stuff still coming throughout the rest of the month.

00:04:59 ◼   ► We have other streams, lots of additional content.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Jason put together a Boulder Dash for the show itself,

00:05:06 ◼   ► but there's also a second Boulder Dash,

00:05:09 ◼   ► which is premiering on YouTube on the Relay FM YouTube channel today.

00:05:13 ◼   ► As we record this, by the time the episode's out,

00:05:16 ◼   ► it will be available for you to just go and watch it your own.

00:05:18 ◼   ► Right. Just watch a whole other episode of my two episode Relay FM Boulder Dash game show

00:05:24 ◼   ► with six additional Relay FM hosts.

00:05:28 ◼   ► So it was a fun one.

00:05:32 ◼   ► The one in the podcastathon was fun.

00:05:35 ◼   ► And the one that we'll be posting or has posted is also really good.

00:05:39 ◼   ► And I'm hoping that I will pop that in the departures feed at some point too.

00:05:43 ◼   ► So if you don't want to watch, but you are open to listening,

00:05:47 ◼   ► there'll be an audio version of that too.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a truly incredible day.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Thank you so much if you tuned in for any of it.

00:05:54 ◼   ► We were blown away by not just how many people had tuned in,

00:05:57 ◼   ► but also all the money we raised.

00:05:59 ◼   ► And now sitting here, you know, on September 20th,

00:06:03 ◼   ► and I think right now we've just passed five, we're about to hit $511,000.

00:06:09 ◼   ► It's just an absolutely unbelievable amount of money

00:06:12 ◼   ► and just a level of support that we currently have ever dreamed of.

00:06:17 ◼   ► So thank you so much.

00:06:18 ◼   ► So this is a follow up.

00:06:21 ◼   ► So we had said a couple of weeks ago that we would on this episode

00:06:25 ◼   ► talk about the ramifications of the Epic and Apple trial

00:06:28 ◼   ► and if and how Apple would be changing their in-app purchase.

00:06:32 ◼   ► That rules because of the trial.

00:06:34 ◼   ► We can't talk about it right now because it's still too complicated.

00:06:38 ◼   ► There are lots and lots of opinions on the internet right now

00:06:43 ◼   ► as to what the ruling means.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Ultimately, I think I've come down on the line of,

00:06:50 ◼   ► I think it's best to just wait now because it seems like at the moment,

00:06:55 ◼   ► there is too much interpretation that can be made on the ruling

00:07:00 ◼   ► that Judge Gonzalez-Roch has put down.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So I think we actually need to wait now to see,

00:07:05 ◼   ► I think within the next few weeks,

00:07:08 ◼   ► because there's a time window on this where Apple have to do something or not,

00:07:14 ◼   ► and then we can see what happens after that period.

00:07:17 ◼   ► Yeah, there's a lot going on there, but I think we can push,

00:07:22 ◼   ► there's a lot of other stuff going on, so we can push that off for now.

00:07:24 ◼   ► It's just too difficult.

00:07:25 ◼   ► It's either it means everything or it means nothing

00:07:29 ◼   ► or in kind of all the way in between.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Somewhere in between.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Last night, Ted Lasso picked up a bunch of Emmys.

00:07:35 ◼   ► It was obvious that it was going to happen.

00:07:37 ◼   ► They won Outstanding Comedy Series,

00:07:40 ◼   ► Lead Actor in a Comedy went to Jason Sudeikis,

00:07:42 ◼   ► Supporting Actor went to Brett Goldstein,

00:07:44 ◼   ► Supporting Actress went to Hannah Waddingham,

00:07:46 ◼   ► and they also won awards for Sound Mixing, Editing, and Casting.

00:07:50 ◼   ► I think the only award they didn't win,

00:07:52 ◼   ► or at least the only major award they didn't win was writing.

00:07:55 ◼   ► They didn't win that one.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Writing and directing in a comedy,

00:07:57 ◼   ► both of which went to Hacks on HBO Max,

00:07:59 ◼   ► which is by the way also a fantastic show.

00:08:02 ◼   ► And if people haven't tried it, they should give it a go.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Hacks is great as well.

00:08:06 ◼   ► So I was happy to see Hacks win a few Emmys

00:08:11 ◼   ► because it also won Best Actress in a Comedy.

00:08:14 ◼   ► So that's a show worth watching if you've got HBO Max.

00:08:18 ◼   ► And I'm very happy that it won some awards

00:08:21 ◼   ► because now more people have heard of it

00:08:24 ◼   ► and it would be harder for it to be canceled.

00:08:27 ◼   ► And it already got picked up for a second season,

00:08:29 ◼   ► but I love that show too.

00:08:30 ◼   ► So they didn't win all the Emmys,

00:08:32 ◼   ► but Ted Lasso won an awful lot, which was expected.

00:08:36 ◼   ► I think the Hacks wins were surprising

00:08:38 ◼   ► and I'm happy for them for those.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Also that seems to be a place where it was easy for them

00:08:42 ◼   ► to split the nominees because Ted Lasso got nominated

00:08:45 ◼   ► for half of the nominations in those categories.

00:08:48 ◼   ► And they did in these other categories too in the supporting,

00:08:51 ◼   ► but I felt like Hannah Waddingham and Brett Goldstein

00:08:54 ◼   ► were so clearly the right choices

00:08:57 ◼   ► that they were able to overcome the other Ted Lasso people

00:09:01 ◼   ► in their category in order to win those.

00:09:03 ◼   ► But yeah, so Apple had within like an hour of the Emmys,

00:09:07 ◼   ► all the banners on Apple TV were winner of eight Emmy awards.

00:09:10 ◼   ► So good to whoever was up on Sunday night

00:09:14 ◼   ► updating all of their graphics on Apple TV.

00:09:19 ◼   ► It was something that I found kind of funny

00:09:22 ◼   ► like in Apple's press release, they say,

00:09:25 ◼   ► I just love this line, it's hilarious to me.

00:09:28 ◼   ► Apple TV+ becomes first streaming service in history

00:09:31 ◼   ► to land top program award in its second year of eligibility.

00:09:34 ◼   ► Like that, but like if you actually read that, right?

00:09:38 ◼   ► First in history, second year possible.

00:09:41 ◼   ► In history is not that big if the history is two years.

00:09:45 ◼   ► - Well, it means, well, the history is the history

00:09:49 ◼   ► of streaming services, right?

00:09:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:09:50 ◼   ► - In the history of streaming, it took Netflix longer

00:09:53 ◼   ► and Amazon longer to win a major award like this.

00:09:55 ◼   ► But also, yes, it is silly.

00:09:57 ◼   ► They're trying to find a superlative, I get it.

00:09:59 ◼   ► But it's a big deal.

00:10:02 ◼   ► I mean, like what, two years ago weren't people

00:10:08 ◼   ► making Carpool Karaoke and other Eddie Q,

00:10:13 ◼   ► Eddie Q thanked on stage by the way,

00:10:15 ◼   ► along with T-Dog, Tim Cook by Bill Lawrence.

00:10:19 ◼   ► - Was it Zach and Jamie?

00:10:21 ◼   ► - Zach and Jamie were in there.

00:10:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it was all the people we've been talking about.

00:10:24 ◼   ► But I just, when all those people were making jokes

00:10:26 ◼   ► about the dumb Apple music video stuff

00:10:29 ◼   ► and Carpool Karaoke that they'd been doing.

00:10:32 ◼   ► And we said, no, no, no, no, you don't understand.

00:10:34 ◼   ► This is not that.

00:10:35 ◼   ► These are different people doing something different.

00:10:37 ◼   ► Well, here we are two years later

00:10:38 ◼   ► and one of their shows won eight Emmys.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Now, who knew?

00:10:44 ◼   ► I mean, who knew it would be Ted Lasso?

00:10:47 ◼   ► The thing is you place your bets.

00:10:49 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure their big bet was the morning show

00:10:52 ◼   ► and it got some awards, but what you do is you program

00:10:56 ◼   ► your network and the hits will emerge

00:11:00 ◼   ► and the critical darlings will emerge.

00:11:01 ◼   ► And that's how you have to do it.

00:11:02 ◼   ► You can't, I actually wonder about this for Amazon

00:11:06 ◼   ► where they're trying to replicate

00:11:07 ◼   ► Game of Thrones essentially.

00:11:09 ◼   ► And like, I'm not sure you can do that.

00:11:10 ◼   ► I think you gotta have a strategy

00:11:13 ◼   ► where you throw off a bunch of shows

00:11:14 ◼   ► and some of them are gonna flop

00:11:15 ◼   ► and some of them are gonna be hits

00:11:17 ◼   ► and you just, you gotta, you can't control what happens.

00:11:20 ◼   ► So Apple, I'm sure was taken by surprise,

00:11:23 ◼   ► but now they're firmly on board the Ted Lasso train.

00:11:26 ◼   ► In fact, we should mention the Hollywood Reporter story

00:11:31 ◼   ► about season three, because it's got some interesting things

00:11:36 ◼   ► about renegotiating the salaries of the writers

00:11:39 ◼   ► and the cast to give them more money,

00:11:41 ◼   ► which I think is interesting.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Like they didn't have to do that,

00:11:44 ◼   ► but it's one of those things where you want to

00:11:46 ◼   ► be gracious to your creative team for, you know, right.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Like they placed the bet on Ted Lasso,

00:11:53 ◼   ► not thinking it would be successful,

00:11:55 ◼   ► but it's been so successful that Apple

00:11:57 ◼   ► and Warners have gone back to them

00:12:00 ◼   ► and sweetened their deals, which is interesting.

00:12:05 ◼   ► And it also, I think raises the question like,

00:12:08 ◼   ► and the Hollywood Reporter article does a good job

00:12:11 ◼   ► of raising this question without answering it.

00:12:12 ◼   ► 'Cause there is no answer right now, right?

00:12:14 ◼   ► But it's basically, you know, surely they're not gonna stop

00:12:18 ◼   ► at three seasons given how successful it's been.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And there's kind of a lot of shrugging going on of like,

00:12:24 ◼   ► you know, the impression I get is that Apple

00:12:26 ◼   ► and Warner are happy to back up the truck of money

00:12:30 ◼   ► to Jason Sudeikis' house, but it's unclear

00:12:33 ◼   ► if Jason Sudeikis is willing to have them open

00:12:38 ◼   ► up the back of that truck.

00:12:39 ◼   ► So it's all still kind of floating out there.

00:12:41 ◼   ► - I still think it's gonna go past three seasons.

00:12:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think the big issue is that he's got young kids

00:12:49 ◼   ► and they shoot in England.

00:12:50 ◼   ► So I think the question is, do they recalibrate

00:12:54 ◼   ► what they think the storyline might be

00:12:56 ◼   ► and have it continue?

00:12:58 ◼   ► Does Ted come back to the US?

00:13:01 ◼   ► Do they split the show where Ted comes back to the US

00:13:05 ◼   ► and the other characters stay in England?

00:13:07 ◼   ► And there were kind of two shows at that point?

00:13:09 ◼   ► I don't know what they do.

00:13:10 ◼   ► - Did they just change the way they film it?

00:13:12 ◼   ► There are ways around every problem, right?

00:13:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's true.

00:13:15 ◼   ► They could film interiors in the US, in New York,

00:13:21 ◼   ► or somewhere like that.

00:13:22 ◼   ► I think his kids are in New York.

00:13:23 ◼   ► I think that's where he lives.

00:13:25 ◼   ► They could shoot at interiors in New York

00:13:28 ◼   ► and shoot exteriors in England

00:13:31 ◼   ► and do it that way if they wanted to.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Like they've got, right?

00:13:35 ◼   ► That's the question is like, if he says absolutely no,

00:13:37 ◼   ► then it's gonna be absolutely no,

00:13:38 ◼   ► but there's so much money and prestige involved now.

00:13:42 ◼   ► And it's art and commerce.

00:13:44 ◼   ► Look, this is all the stuff we talk about.

00:13:46 ◼   ► It's art and commerce.

00:13:47 ◼   ► Both of those things exist.

00:13:49 ◼   ► And usually commerce wins because at the end of the day,

00:13:56 ◼   ► all of those writers and actors have house payments

00:13:58 ◼   ► and families to support.

00:14:02 ◼   ► And there is the offer of an avalanche of money.

00:14:05 ◼   ► And even if Jason Sudeikis, I would say,

00:14:07 ◼   ► even if Jason Sudeikis is really reluctant to keep going

00:14:10 ◼   ► because he's got his vision for where the story goes

00:14:12 ◼   ► and he's got young kids in the United States,

00:14:15 ◼   ► it's not just a personal decision, right?

00:14:18 ◼   ► It's a decision that has ramifications

00:14:20 ◼   ► for everyone who makes the show.

00:14:22 ◼   ► And if he says no, he's taking the money

00:14:24 ◼   ► out of their hands as well.

00:14:27 ◼   ► And that's a hard decision to make.

00:14:29 ◼   ► - And if we put money aside for a minute,

00:14:31 ◼   ► like it is a massive factor, right?

00:14:33 ◼   ► This is how these people make the living.

00:14:35 ◼   ► - This is Jason Sudeikis' biggest success.

00:14:37 ◼   ► And he may come to realize, hey, you know what?

00:14:42 ◼   ► I like making this show and everyone loves it.

00:14:46 ◼   ► And it's going really well.

00:14:48 ◼   ► - So let's make some more money while the sun is shining

00:14:52 ◼   ► 'cause you never know what'll happen after this.

00:14:53 ◼   ► - But again, it's not even just the money.

00:14:55 ◼   ► It's just like, let's continue making this show

00:14:58 ◼   ► that is so critically acclaimed.

00:14:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that we all generally seem to like each other.

00:15:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've gone to his Wikipedia page at the moment.

00:15:04 ◼   ► I looked at like his awards and nominations

00:15:07 ◼   ► and like the entire box, it's like two thirds

00:15:09 ◼   ► of the box is Ted Lasso.

00:15:10 ◼   ► - Oh, of course.

00:15:11 ◼   ► No, this is his big thing.

00:15:13 ◼   ► - This is his like, Jason Sudeikis will be remembered

00:15:16 ◼   ► for being Ted Lasso now.

00:15:18 ◼   ► That's how it would appear to be.

00:15:21 ◼   ► So maybe you wanna find a way to make it work.

00:15:25 ◼   ► I don't know, we'll find out.

00:15:26 ◼   ► - I like that it is that report is all about,

00:15:31 ◼   ► and I do recommend it, the Hollywood Reporter story.

00:15:32 ◼   ► - It's great, oh, okay.

00:15:33 ◼   ► - It is all about like, how do you, now that it's a hit,

00:15:38 ◼   ► like you go back and recompensate everybody.

00:15:39 ◼   ► You give everybody more money.

00:15:40 ◼   ► You give Brett Goldstein and Hannah Wanning a lot more money

00:15:43 ◼   ► 'cause they just won Emmy awards.

00:15:45 ◼   ► You give the writers more money.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Like everybody's gonna get more money.

00:15:48 ◼   ► And we mentioned the other week that there also is this thing

00:15:51 ◼   ► where Apple is trying to buy out some of the linear TV rights

00:15:54 ◼   ► 'cause they don't want Ted Lasso running on cable TV.

00:15:57 ◼   ► They want it to be Apple TV exclusive.

00:15:59 ◼   ► What does that cost?

00:16:00 ◼   ► Like all of this stuff is going on now.

00:16:03 ◼   ► And it's really interesting

00:16:04 ◼   ► because it's this unexpected success.

00:16:06 ◼   ► And now they have to figure out where they go next.

00:16:08 ◼   ► - Season three is gonna have 12 episodes.

00:16:10 ◼   ► They confirmed that during the Emmys last night.

00:16:12 ◼   ► - Right, like season two, except unlike season two,

00:16:15 ◼   ► they're gonna plan for 12 episodes

00:16:17 ◼   ► because this past weekend's episode, actually,

00:16:19 ◼   ► people were saying, if you have seen it,

00:16:21 ◼   ► it's a very off format episode.

00:16:23 ◼   ► It is unlike a normal episode of Ted Lasso.

00:16:27 ◼   ► And I actually saw somebody say, I didn't like it

00:16:30 ◼   ► because I don't like that they took an episode

00:16:32 ◼   ► out of the story in order to tell this other thing.

00:16:35 ◼   ► And I had to say, they didn't take an episode

00:16:38 ◼   ► out of the story.

00:16:39 ◼   ► This is the other standalone episode that they wrote

00:16:41 ◼   ► after they broke the season with 10 episodes.

00:16:45 ◼   ► And then Apple came to them and said,

00:16:46 ◼   ► can you make two more episodes?

00:16:48 ◼   ► And they're like, but we already, okay.

00:16:50 ◼   ► Again, not turning down the money,

00:16:52 ◼   ► but instead of breaking up their 10 episode plan,

00:16:55 ◼   ► what they did is they inserted two standalone episodes,

00:16:59 ◼   ► the Christmas special and the one that aired this week.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Next season, they will plan for 12 episodes,

00:17:04 ◼   ► which is better.

00:17:06 ◼   ► - Just real quick as well, morning show started again,

00:17:08 ◼   ► no spoilers, but I really enjoyed the first episode.

00:17:11 ◼   ► I'm excited to see what the season goes.

00:17:13 ◼   ► Have you seen it yet?

00:17:13 ◼   ► - No, we are watching some other stuff right now.

00:17:18 ◼   ► We just watched the first three episodes

00:17:19 ◼   ► of "Why the Last Man," which was a lot of fun

00:17:21 ◼   ► in the comic book that I really liked.

00:17:23 ◼   ► So I'm enjoying that.

00:17:24 ◼   ► But we got it ready to go.

00:17:26 ◼   ► It was one of those things where we're like,

00:17:28 ◼   ► it's nine o'clock and we can do an hour long TV show.

00:17:31 ◼   ► And do we really wanna kick off the morning show?

00:17:33 ◼   ► And it was like, let's let it percolate.

00:17:35 ◼   ► We'll come back to it.

00:17:36 ◼   ► - I tend to go all over that, but I was excited to see it.

00:17:40 ◼   ► It's good.

00:17:40 ◼   ► I'm really intrigued to see where the season goes.

00:17:43 ◼   ► - And "Foundation" premieres on Friday.

00:17:46 ◼   ► And I'm looking forward to that.

00:17:47 ◼   ► - Remind me, they're dropping two episodes of that, right?

00:17:51 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:17:54 ◼   ► At the beginning of the Apple event last week,

00:17:56 ◼   ► it was interesting to see that they've got

00:17:58 ◼   ► their fall rollout schedule.

00:18:00 ◼   ► I was saying to Lauren last night,

00:18:01 ◼   ► as we were looking at all the different stuff

00:18:03 ◼   ► that we can watch, it's like,

00:18:04 ◼   ► oh, all the shows are back now, right?

00:18:06 ◼   ► Like it's only been in this last week or two

00:18:09 ◼   ► where I've realized, oh, everything that was put

00:18:12 ◼   ► into COVID production earlier this year

00:18:16 ◼   ► is all starting to roll out.

00:18:18 ◼   ► So we had that moment that was more of a lull.

00:18:20 ◼   ► And right now, everything is dropping.

00:18:25 ◼   ► 'Cause "Sex Education" dropped on Friday on Netflix,

00:18:27 ◼   ► which is a show I really like.

00:18:28 ◼   ► I haven't watched that yet.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Like everything is dropping now.

00:18:33 ◼   ► All the shows are coming out now.

00:18:35 ◼   ► So that's great, but it's overwhelming.

00:18:37 ◼   ► - It is too, by the way, "Foundation."

00:18:39 ◼   ► It starts with two episodes.

00:18:40 ◼   ► - It is two episodes of "Foundation."

00:18:41 ◼   ► And then they've got another release the following week

00:18:43 ◼   ► and another release the following week

00:18:44 ◼   ► and another release, like it keeps going.

00:18:46 ◼   ► There's a lot of content coming out now.

00:18:49 ◼   ► It's kind of overwhelming, but good stuff, good stuff.

00:18:53 ◼   ► And congratulations to Ted Lasso because I love that show.

00:18:56 ◼   ► And I'm glad it's done so well and it is funny to see

00:19:01 ◼   ► Apple TV+, of all things, having these,

00:19:05 ◼   ► getting up on stage and saying, "Thanks to Apple."

00:19:08 ◼   ► Or as Bill Lawrence said, "Thanks to Zach and Jamie,

00:19:13 ◼   ► Eddie, and T-Dog."

00:19:15 ◼   ► That's my name for Tim Cook.

00:19:16 ◼   ► I'm sure at 4 a.m. when Tim Cook's alarm went off,

00:19:18 ◼   ► he awoke to happy news about Ted Lasso and puzzlement

00:19:24 ◼   ► about people calling him T-Dog.

00:19:26 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:19:27 ◼   ► - You can skip 15 seconds.

00:19:29 ◼   ► I'm gonna spoil the joke from "Morning Show."

00:19:32 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:19:33 ◼   ► How do I skip 15 seconds, Myke?

00:19:34 ◼   ► I'm here with you.

00:19:35 ◼   ► - You can't.

00:19:35 ◼   ► You're gonna hear it.

00:19:36 ◼   ► UBA+ is a thing that's referenced.

00:19:39 ◼   ► - Oh, yay!

00:19:40 ◼   ► Fantastic.

00:19:42 ◼   ► - I was so--

00:19:43 ◼   ► - I love it.

00:19:44 ◼   ► - I screamed.

00:19:45 ◼   ► - I love it.

00:19:45 ◼   ► - I was so excited.

00:19:46 ◼   ► It was like, "I tipped the cap to you, sir."

00:19:49 ◼   ► - Yes, good stuff.

00:19:51 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:19:52 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Today, many small business owners,

00:19:57 ◼   ► they're busier than ever.

00:19:58 ◼   ► And time spent searching for and interviewing

00:20:01 ◼   ► the wrong candidates for a job could be time better spent

00:20:04 ◼   ► growing the business that you're running.

00:20:06 ◼   ► And that's why LinkedIn Jobs has made it easier

00:20:08 ◼   ► to get the candidates worth interviewing faster,

00:20:11 ◼   ► and it's free.

00:20:12 ◼   ► I have had the opportunity in my life to hire

00:20:15 ◼   ► in a few different roles with my own business

00:20:18 ◼   ► and when I worked for larger companies.

00:20:21 ◼   ► It is a daunting task as somebody who is hiring someone.

00:20:26 ◼   ► Like, even knowing where to start, it's so difficult.

00:20:29 ◼   ► And similarly, on the other end,

00:20:31 ◼   ► knowing where to send your application

00:20:35 ◼   ► or how to go about it is also a daunting task.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And really, the important thing about hiring

00:20:39 ◼   ► is that you get the right person in the right place.

00:20:43 ◼   ► And having the ability to have this through

00:20:46 ◼   ► the massive LinkedIn platform,

00:20:48 ◼   ► that is a big tick in the right box

00:20:51 ◼   ► to helping you find that right person.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Because you can create a free job post in minutes

00:20:56 ◼   ► on LinkedIn Jobs to reach your network

00:20:58 ◼   ► and beyond to the world's largest professional network

00:21:01 ◼   ► of over 770 million people.

00:21:04 ◼   ► So you can focus on candidates with the skills

00:21:06 ◼   ► and experience that you need and use screening questions

00:21:09 ◼   ► to help get your role in front of only the most qualified

00:21:12 ◼   ► people for your role.

00:21:14 ◼   ► Then you can use the simple tools that LinkedIn have created

00:21:17 ◼   ► with LinkedIn Jobs to quickly filter and prioritize

00:21:19 ◼   ► who you'd like to interview and hire.

00:21:21 ◼   ► So you have a large pool of people that you can get from,

00:21:24 ◼   ► but then all of the tools that you're gonna need

00:21:25 ◼   ► to find that perfect person.

00:21:28 ◼   ► LinkedIn Jobs helps you find the candidates

00:21:30 ◼   ► worth interviewing faster.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Did you know every week,

00:21:33 ◼   ► nearly 40 million job seekers visit LinkedIn?

00:21:36 ◼   ► Post your job for free at linkedin.com/upgrade.

00:21:39 ◼   ► That's linkedin.com/upgrade to post your job for free.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Terms and conditions apply our thanks to LinkedIn Jobs

00:21:45 ◼   ► for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:21:48 ◼   ► All right, so let's talk about some,

00:21:50 ◼   ► I'll reflect a little bit more on last week

00:21:52 ◼   ► on the Apple event.

00:21:53 ◼   ► Okay.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Now that the dust has settled,

00:21:55 ◼   ► how do you feel about the event?

00:21:58 ◼   ► I've seen a lot of like people online saying,

00:22:00 ◼   ► it was disappointing, it was boring, it's an S year.

00:22:03 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:22:04 ◼   ► You know, everybody is always disappointed by Apple events

00:22:08 ◼   ► unless they have some mind blowing product.

00:22:11 ◼   ► And I think that this is incremental.

00:22:14 ◼   ► We talked about it a little last time.

00:22:17 ◼   ► Incremental is what it is.

00:22:19 ◼   ► It is an S year.

00:22:20 ◼   ► That's true, essentially.

00:22:21 ◼   ► It is a quieter iPhone cycle.

00:22:24 ◼   ► It's a quieter Apple watch cycle.

00:22:27 ◼   ► The truth is most people don't buy the same thing every year.

00:22:32 ◼   ► And what matters is that Apple pushes everything forward.

00:22:36 ◼   ► And then this is their PR push.

00:22:39 ◼   ► And then everybody in the holiday quarter,

00:22:42 ◼   ► who's got a two or three or four year old iPhone

00:22:45 ◼   ► or Apple watch, those people update.

00:22:48 ◼   ► It's part of the cycle.

00:22:49 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:22:50 ◼   ► Not every year is going to be like last year was the,

00:22:53 ◼   ► we changed how this looks and, you know,

00:22:56 ◼   ► we gave it this whole new approach that we're doing to the iPhone.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Like, did you think that was going to happen again this year?

00:23:03 ◼   ► Like, no, that's not, that's not what happened.

00:23:04 ◼   ► So it was, I thought it was fine.

00:23:06 ◼   ► It is what it is.

00:23:07 ◼   ► It is an iPhone.

00:23:08 ◼   ► It's an incremental iPhone event.

00:23:11 ◼   ► They have them every year.

00:23:12 ◼   ► They have them every year for good reasons.

00:23:14 ◼   ► They're not going to stop doing them because they do want to refresh their product every year.

00:23:19 ◼   ► But, you know, saying that it's a, it's a boring kind of thing.

00:23:24 ◼   ► Like that's, that's like, um, dog bites, man, kind of stuff.

00:23:27 ◼   ► Like Apple hasn't done a, it's so rare that the iPhone event completely blows your mind

00:23:34 ◼   ► because the pace of smartphone innovation hasn't been like that in a decade.

00:23:37 ◼   ► So now it really comes every two, three, four, five years.

00:23:41 ◼   ► And otherwise it's just, they push it along and they pushed it along.

00:23:44 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:23:45 ◼   ► Like I don't, I don't expect more than this.

00:23:49 ◼   ► Like it's a pleasant surprise.

00:23:51 ◼   ► I find it funny when people say like, oh, this should have been an S phone.

00:23:57 ◼   ► It doesn't mean anything what they call it.

00:23:59 ◼   ► Doesn't mean anything.

00:24:00 ◼   ► I thought the, I always thought the S was dumb ever since the S is for speed with the iPhone 3GS.

00:24:05 ◼   ► Because it didn't make any sense.

00:24:06 ◼   ► You would incrementally number every other one.

00:24:11 ◼   ► That didn't make any sense anyway.

00:24:12 ◼   ► Right?

00:24:13 ◼   ► Like it's like four, four S five, like it didn't, it was no.

00:24:17 ◼   ► - And it's not like people, I mean, if you're on, okay, here's the one place where I will say,

00:24:21 ◼   ► I understand people grumbling about this is the people who are on the upgrade program

00:24:28 ◼   ► where they get not this upgrade program that we're on, but the iPhone upgrade program.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:34 ◼   ► They get a new phone every year.

00:24:35 ◼   ► And the idea is, yay, it's exciting.

00:24:37 ◼   ► I get a new phone every year.

00:24:38 ◼   ► And last year's phone came out a month later.

00:24:40 ◼   ► So they have to pay extra in order to get a new phone that they're not that excited about.

00:24:43 ◼   ► But even then, I think you could just continue to pay it and then you

00:24:46 ◼   ► pay it off and then you could, you can, you just upgrade.

00:24:49 ◼   ► - No, I don't think that even on that plan, like on the upgrade plan, like on the upgrade program,

00:24:55 ◼   ► you're paying every month anyway, whether the phone is good or bad or somewhere in between.

00:24:59 ◼   ► - The truth is whatever 95% of people don't buy an iPhone every year.

00:25:03 ◼   ► And, and it's, it's like, I've got excited about the Apple watch.

00:25:07 ◼   ► I'm less excited about the iPhones.

00:25:09 ◼   ► Rumor has it that the iPhones next year are going to be different, right?

00:25:12 ◼   ► Like they don't, they don't do that every year.

00:25:13 ◼   ► They're not going to try to do that every year.

00:25:15 ◼   ► And I got to say, you know, again, it is, no, it was not a very exciting thing,

00:25:21 ◼   ► but I also have to say that there's a tenor, especially in some of the,

00:25:25 ◼   ► let me say the more mainstream press about this stuff that is very much like,

00:25:31 ◼   ► why is Apple not dancing for my amusement?

00:25:33 ◼   ► Like dance monkey dance, because, you know, they want to have stuff to write about and

00:25:38 ◼   ► they want to be entertained and they want to have the next big thing.

00:25:41 ◼   ► And like, it's never really been like that, but it's a, it gives you a thing to write every year

00:25:47 ◼   ► to have a hot take that Apple is, Apple is boring.

00:25:50 ◼   ► Smartphones have been boring for a while now.

00:25:52 ◼   ► That's just the truth of it.

00:25:54 ◼   ► They've been boring for a while now.

00:25:55 ◼   ► - So mature market, isn't it?

00:25:57 ◼   ► - This is, this is the era where people who want to nerd out about phone features can

00:26:01 ◼   ► appreciate the little details.

00:26:03 ◼   ► That's us by the way, that's us.

00:26:05 ◼   ► But no, it's incremental.

00:26:07 ◼   ► It is, John Gruber wrote a piece for me in Mac world, like 15 years ago about incrementalism

00:26:13 ◼   ► and he links to it all the time.

00:26:14 ◼   ► Like Apple, Apple's whole thing is incremental and people have always misunderstood Apple

00:26:21 ◼   ► and said, oh, every Apple announcement that isn't world-changing is dumb and boring and

00:26:27 ◼   ► they should feel bad.

00:26:27 ◼   ► And it's like, eh, I don't know.

00:26:29 ◼   ► It's always been this way.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Was this year more incremental than usual?

00:26:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was, but you know, that's how it is.

00:26:38 ◼   ► I would, if I had to analyze, I would--

00:26:40 ◼   ► - I think that that screen, I think the screen is gonna really surprise people.

00:26:44 ◼   ► - The promotion on the pro?

00:26:45 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:26:46 ◼   ► - Could be.

00:26:46 ◼   ► - And I think it's something we can't see.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And plus the cameras, like the camera changes seem so much bigger this year than last year.

00:26:54 ◼   ► But I feel for me, I feel like Apple made a bigger song and dance of it last year than

00:26:59 ◼   ► this year.

00:26:59 ◼   ► - Well, isn't this what Apple does though is Apple does the visual changes and then does

00:27:04 ◼   ► the not as visible changes the next year that tends to be what they do.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Not always, but they always do.

00:27:11 ◼   ► That's the incrementalism of it.

00:27:12 ◼   ► And if you look closely, you can find things that are interesting.

00:27:14 ◼   ► But in the end, what they're really doing is they're selling this phone to people who

00:27:18 ◼   ► have an iPhone 10 or 10s or eight or seven and not people who have the iPhone 12, maybe

00:27:26 ◼   ► even the iPhone 11.

00:27:27 ◼   ► Okay, but that's who they're selling this to.

00:27:30 ◼   ► And it's fine.

00:27:33 ◼   ► There are gonna be good things in it.

00:27:35 ◼   ► But most people are buying this year's advances and last year's advances and maybe the years

00:27:40 ◼   ► before his advances.

00:27:42 ◼   ► There's a very large number of people, a surprisingly large number of people who will buy the iPhone

00:27:48 ◼   ► 13 for whom it will be their first face ID phone.

00:27:53 ◼   ► Right?

00:27:55 ◼   ► I know that seems weird to us, but there's a lot of people out there with iPhone sevens

00:27:59 ◼   ► and eights who are gonna update this year.

00:28:01 ◼   ► And they're gonna be like, whoa, what is OLED face ID?

00:28:06 ◼   ► This is wild.

00:28:07 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, yeah.

00:28:08 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:28:10 ◼   ► I thought it was fine.

00:28:11 ◼   ► I think that there is some COVID hangover happening here where I feel like even Apple

00:28:19 ◼   ► cannot be at 100% having been doing all of this remote work and having all of this disruption

00:28:27 ◼   ► for more than a year.

00:28:28 ◼   ► And we probably see a little more of it this year than last because of course they work

00:28:34 ◼   ► way ahead.

00:28:35 ◼   ► But I think it's not dramatic.

00:28:39 ◼   ► This is just what they do.

00:28:41 ◼   ► And I think the announcements are fine and the products, I mean, the products don't look

00:28:44 ◼   ► like dogs or anything.

00:28:45 ◼   ► It's not like they ratcheted up the price for a lesser product.

00:28:47 ◼   ► The prices stay the same.

00:28:49 ◼   ► So it feels very normal to me.

00:28:53 ◼   ► I guess that translates as boring, but I don't know.

00:28:55 ◼   ► It just feels normal to me.

00:28:56 ◼   ► - One thing I've been wondering is like, why did they announce the Apple watch now if it's

00:29:02 ◼   ► not ready for an indeterminate amount of time, if they are going to have another event later

00:29:08 ◼   ► in the year, which it seems like that they would, or they easily could?

00:29:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's something we've discussed before the idea of do you announce a product if you

00:29:17 ◼   ► are Apple with your, like they want to do it in this timeline of theirs, right?

00:29:23 ◼   ► Which is announce now on sale here, ships now, right?

00:29:28 ◼   ► And it doesn't have to be this week.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Sometimes it's announced now, goes on sale next Friday or in two Fridays even, and then

00:29:35 ◼   ► ships two weeks after that or whatever, right?

00:29:38 ◼   ► Like there's a calendar, sort of an internal calendar.

00:29:42 ◼   ► And what you want to do if you're a seller of products, which Apple most definitely is,

00:29:47 ◼   ► is give people a call to action, right?

00:29:49 ◼   ► So the ideal is, hey everybody, new iPhones, it's Tuesday, you can order them Friday.

00:29:54 ◼   ► I mean, I would argue it'd be better if you could order them that day, but Apple seems

00:29:58 ◼   ► to have decided that this is the way you do it.

00:30:00 ◼   ► You can order them Friday, and people did order them Friday, and then they're going

00:30:04 ◼   ► to ship.

00:30:04 ◼   ► So great.

00:30:05 ◼   ► I mean, with the iPad mini, they were available then, right then.

00:30:09 ◼   ► So that was kind of exciting too.

00:30:10 ◼   ► There's Apple watch, which like isn't on the calendar.

00:30:14 ◼   ► So the question is, I think you ask, it's a good question.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Why now if you don't have the calendar, even if it was a calendar that was pushed out several

00:30:25 ◼   ► weeks, why now?

00:30:26 ◼   ► And I think the answer is they know, we don't, but they know what else they've got this fall.

00:30:33 ◼   ► And they're looking at putting an Apple watch with a MacBook Pro and how they shift gears

00:30:38 ◼   ► to tell that story.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Whereas the Apple watch is the iPhone's buddy, right?

00:30:46 ◼   ► It's a sidekick product of the iPhone.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So they made the decision and it's interesting because last year they deferred the iPhone,

00:30:55 ◼   ► but kept the Apple watch.

00:30:56 ◼   ► But I guess we can't use, I was just thinking this, right?

00:30:59 ◼   ► Cause it was like iPad, iPad, Apple watch was one event, but I guess we can't really

00:31:06 ◼   ► use last year as an example of anything, right?

00:31:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:10 ◼   ► Well, and I think that it, it, the Apple watch is not the iPhone, right?

00:31:13 ◼   ► They carry different weight.

00:31:14 ◼   ► And I think the Apple watch going first was a little bit weird, but if you hold onto the

00:31:20 ◼   ► Apple watch, don't announce it here, even though it's the iPhone's buddy.

00:31:24 ◼   ► And then you announce it with a MacBook Pro, like MacBook Pro Apple really does like to

00:31:30 ◼   ► do these use case things where it's like, these are for pros.

00:31:33 ◼   ► These are for people who really care.

00:31:36 ◼   ► And the, and the Apple watch is a foundational product.

00:31:40 ◼   ► It's not like an accessory, even though it kind of is.

00:31:42 ◼   ► It tells a totally different story.

00:31:46 ◼   ► So, and it, and it is, you know, it's OS release is basically tied to the iOS release.

00:31:51 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:31:52 ◼   ► To me, it feels like they decided this was a better fit thematically and a better fit

00:31:57 ◼   ► because it's the iPhone's buddy than to hold it off because they know what else they have

00:32:02 ◼   ► to announce.

00:32:02 ◼   ► And they were trying to think, do we put it in that event and think, no, it fits better

00:32:08 ◼   ► just going along with the iPhone, even though they're not ready.

00:32:12 ◼   ► But it was probably a tough decision because I think they don't, I think they super don't

00:32:17 ◼   ► like not having that product sales calendar set when they announced the product.

00:32:24 ◼   ► But I think that's, they're stuck.

00:32:26 ◼   ► Well, cause they've pulled the rug out of the Apple watch sales, you know, for a little

00:32:30 ◼   ► bit that there will be a dip.

00:32:33 ◼   ► I mean, who knows how much, but anybody who was thinking they wanted an Apple watch series

00:32:38 ◼   ► six won't buy one now until whenever.

00:32:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:42 ◼   ► So, um, that's my best guess anyway, is, is since you asked is that they, they know what

00:32:48 ◼   ► their next event is and they thought, no, this fits better.

00:32:51 ◼   ► Even though that we're going to give up that really useful messaging where we say, here's

00:32:55 ◼   ► how, here's this great thing.

00:32:57 ◼   ► And now go buy it or go buy it in a few days.

00:32:59 ◼   ► They gave that up, but you know, they did get a good match with the rest of the products

00:33:05 ◼   ► in that event.

00:33:05 ◼   ► I ordered my iPad mini before our last episode, I ordered my iPhone.

00:33:10 ◼   ► I really liked, I just wanted to say like, I really liked Apple's new system where you

00:33:16 ◼   ► could, before the pre-order date, you could just go into the Apple store app, choose everything

00:33:22 ◼   ► you wanted.

00:33:22 ◼   ► And then all you had to do was open the app and just press a button to confirm.

00:33:26 ◼   ► And if I used Apple pay and just authorize Apple pay, that's it.

00:33:29 ◼   ► Like it was way easier.

00:33:31 ◼   ► Like you didn't have to go through the whole selection process, uh, which, you know, takes

00:33:36 ◼   ► the time that it takes.

00:33:37 ◼   ► So you just have less to do when you're rushing to try and get your order in if you want to

00:33:41 ◼   ► get it on the first day.

00:33:43 ◼   ► So I liked it.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:43 ◼   ► This Apple focusing some of its effort on making it easier to give Apple money would seem to

00:33:51 ◼   ► be a no brainer.

00:33:51 ◼   ► And yet, uh, it doesn't always happen, but it's a, it's a smart thing, right?

00:33:56 ◼   ► Cause ultimately that's what they want is just grease the skids of how easy it is for you

00:34:02 ◼   ► to shovel money.

00:34:03 ◼   ► Global highland, this point in a discord, it was a good point of like, if you had an Apple

00:34:07 ◼   ► card, Oh yeah.

00:34:08 ◼   ► It failed.

00:34:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:11 ◼   ► The, so what we always say on this podcast is iPhone.

00:34:17 ◼   ► You think that other things are big, but only the iPhone is really big.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Like you lose sight of it and you're like, Oh, WWDC, that's a big event.

00:34:23 ◼   ► And we see it.

00:34:25 ◼   ► So we went live last week after the event.

00:34:27 ◼   ► And we, a few years ago at WWDC, we quadrupled essentially our live stream capacity because

00:34:34 ◼   ► we were maxing out and we maxed out at our new quadrupled number.

00:34:39 ◼   ► We maxed out the number of live listeners we could have.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Steven had to pay more money for a bigger server for next time.

00:34:45 ◼   ► But this is the lesson.

00:34:46 ◼   ► When back when everybody was using live blogging platforms, all the live blogging platforms

00:34:51 ◼   ► would break on iPhone day because the iPhone interest is just way more than the interest

00:34:58 ◼   ► for any other product.

00:34:59 ◼   ► And it, we, it's, we can lose sight of it when we're talking about Apple as a whole,

00:35:04 ◼   ► lose sight of that fact that the iPhone is just so much more important than anything

00:35:07 ◼   ► else Apple does.

00:35:08 ◼   ► It's like, just in general, we do a lot of fun things in the show.

00:35:11 ◼   ► We've been lucky to have a lot of interviews with people at Apple, et cetera, et cetera.

00:35:14 ◼   ► It's never an episode bigger than the iPhone event episode.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Never ever, ever.

00:35:18 ◼   ► Doesn't matter what happens.

00:35:20 ◼   ► So this goes to Apple's financial partners as well, right?

00:35:25 ◼   ► Where somebody somewhere along the way, maybe at the Apple card bank, which is not Apple,

00:35:30 ◼   ► right?

00:35:30 ◼   ► They have a bank partner.

00:35:31 ◼   ► Somebody somewhere was like, we've stress tested, trust, stress tested this thing.

00:35:38 ◼   ► It's going to be great.

00:35:39 ◼   ► And then 5 a.m.

00:35:41 ◼   ► Pacific on iPhone ordering day comes and they realize, Oh no, because the iPhone is that

00:35:51 ◼   ► popular, right?

00:35:51 ◼   ► Like gauge gauge, look at all of your maximums for your whole history.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Do not set the bar at those because the iPhone will break it.

00:36:02 ◼   ► The iPhone is going to break it and it, it broke it.

00:36:05 ◼   ► It broke their financial system.

00:36:08 ◼   ► It swamped it and Apple card charges were getting rejected and you had to put in a different

00:36:13 ◼   ► card, which then worked right.

00:36:15 ◼   ► It wasn't the credit card processing system on apple.com that was broken.

00:36:20 ◼   ► It was the verification step from Apple card that broke because they were overwhelmed because

00:36:27 ◼   ► buying Apple products on the Apple card is the best deal you can get.

00:36:30 ◼   ► It is the best deal, right?

00:36:33 ◼   ► You get a lot of money back if you buy Apple products on the Apple card.

00:36:37 ◼   ► So everybody uses their Apple card for their Apple products.

00:36:40 ◼   ► And, uh, it's just funny, like they, somebody had a real bad day at whatever bank or whatever

00:36:46 ◼   ► processing house was in charge of that if it's Goldman Sachs or if it's a partner of

00:36:50 ◼   ► theirs or who, but, but whoever was in charge of, of, of that connection and making sure

00:36:57 ◼   ► that it could withstand a peak, they blew it.

00:37:01 ◼   ► And Apple lost probably some money and definitely some money to the Apple card where one of

00:37:09 ◼   ► their competitors, uh, you know, one of the Apple cards competitors ended up getting that

00:37:13 ◼   ► transaction.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Although Apple did do a lot of, since these are pre-orders, Apple apparently emailed a

00:37:18 ◼   ► lot of people and said, it seems like you were trying to pay with your Apple card.

00:37:21 ◼   ► It didn't work.

00:37:22 ◼   ► We fixed the problem.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Click here to switch your order to the Apple card.

00:37:25 ◼   ► So they tried to do some damage control, but like they're going to lose, they're going

00:37:30 ◼   ► to lose some money.

00:37:31 ◼   ► So anyway, the lesson is never underestimate the iPhone.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Never, ever.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Uh, Mark Gurman is still expecting new AirPods of MacBook Pros to be announced this year.

00:37:43 ◼   ► So that's still, you know, still a going concern.

00:37:46 ◼   ► So we'll find out about that.

00:37:48 ◼   ► I'm still pretty hyped about the, about possible new MacBook Pro.

00:37:52 ◼   ► Uh, but we should talk about chips, chips, chips, chips, not the kind of chips for dinner,

00:37:57 ◼   ► but the kind of chips in phones and devices.

00:38:00 ◼   ► The Apple watch has the same processor.

00:38:03 ◼   ► The new Apple watch series seven has the same processor as the series six that has been

00:38:06 ◼   ► discovered by looking through code strings, et cetera.

00:38:09 ◼   ► And that the first time this has happened and the Apple watch line, but does know why

00:38:14 ◼   ► they didn't talk about it.

00:38:16 ◼   ► I didn't realize that at the time it didn't didn't strike me that, Oh yeah, they didn't

00:38:19 ◼   ► talk about anything about the system on a chip.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Well, it's because you already know everything about it.

00:38:24 ◼   ► It's the same as the last one.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:26 ◼   ► It makes sense for this product though.

00:38:28 ◼   ► I don't, it's fine.

00:38:29 ◼   ► I don't think they need new chips in their products every single year.

00:38:33 ◼   ► I don't.

00:38:33 ◼   ► And especially the Apple watch.

00:38:35 ◼   ► I don't think that it's a thing that must be done every single time, but let's talk

00:38:40 ◼   ► about the A15.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Suspicious.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Cause it's been a lot of back and forth on this in a really interesting way.

00:38:47 ◼   ► So like you'll remember Apple went down to the chip lab for a much condensed portion

00:38:54 ◼   ► last time and they gave some statistics, but all those statistics were about this, the

00:39:00 ◼   ► A15 against the competition.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Competition.

00:39:04 ◼   ► And it's very strange.

00:39:05 ◼   ► We were talking about it last time.

00:39:06 ◼   ► And then there was some initial benchmarks that came out, uh, through geek bench as they

00:39:11 ◼   ► tend to do of what appeared to be or what was known to be the iPad mini.

00:39:16 ◼   ► And there was vastly improved graphics performance, which makes sense because there was more GPU

00:39:23 ◼   ► calls.

00:39:23 ◼   ► So let me, let me back up for a second because there's a, there's a, an interim step here

00:39:27 ◼   ► too, which is Apple did compare the iPad mini's processor.

00:39:35 ◼   ► To the previous generation iPad mini.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:38 ◼   ► So I did the math and I wrote about this at Mac world last week, last week, I did the

00:39:43 ◼   ► math on the difference and then tried to extrapolate that to get a geek bench score for the iPad

00:39:51 ◼   ► mini, which is so for the A15 and the results I were getting were basically the same or

00:39:57 ◼   ► slightly slower than the A14.

00:40:01 ◼   ► On core stuff, GPU, GPU, right?

00:40:04 ◼   ► You know, the, those stories came out that the GPU is better.

00:40:06 ◼   ► So obviously there's been some improvement to the GPU performance, but the core performance

00:40:12 ◼   ► seemed static.

00:40:14 ◼   ► It seemed like the A15 and the iPad mini was not any faster than the A14 in the iPhone

00:40:21 ◼   ► 12.

00:40:22 ◼   ► And that was perplexing.

00:40:23 ◼   ► And you combine that with Apple not comparing the iPhone to the previous iPhone and it raised

00:40:30 ◼   ► the question like, is the A15 core not any faster than the A14?

00:40:37 ◼   ► Is that, did that really happen?

00:40:38 ◼   ► And then there was like, oh, you know, maybe the, maybe I think there was a report that

00:40:43 ◼   ► like a bunch of people had left and now Apple's can't do it anymore.

00:40:47 ◼   ► Yes.

00:40:47 ◼   ► That's right.

00:40:48 ◼   ► There was an Apple, Apple is, Apple chip making is basically doomed and entering a dark age

00:40:53 ◼   ► because a bunch of people left Apple's chip making group to do a startup that got bought

00:40:57 ◼   ► by Qualcomm and then a bunch of other people went and left to go to a different startup.

00:41:02 ◼   ► That was a good story with a lot of really, you could see the bias and the assumptions

00:41:09 ◼   ► in things like the headline, but the actual story had some interesting details in it.

00:41:12 ◼   ► But that was, it is a question of like, well, was it COVID?

00:41:15 ◼   ► Is it, is it doom and gloom?

00:41:17 ◼   ► Is it that they had a goal for a next generation core and they didn't have time to put it in

00:41:24 ◼   ► A15 so it'll come later.

00:41:26 ◼   ► Is it the Mac transition, the Apple Silicon transition?

00:41:28 ◼   ► Are they so busy making a souped up chip for MacBook pros and, and beyond that they didn't

00:41:33 ◼   ► have time to really apply themselves to the A15?

00:41:36 ◼   ► Lots of theories out there until the first benchmark.

00:41:39 ◼   ► Just before that as well.

00:41:41 ◼   ► And then I heard on dithering, John Gruber had a good theory, which I liked and was subscribing

00:41:45 ◼   ► to of like, maybe they decided not to go too heavy on the CPU this time.

00:41:49 ◼   ► They went more on the, the kind of the energy efficiency cause.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Because the battery life claims are a lot better.

00:41:55 ◼   ► So did they, did they take the A15 and have it be not faster, but way more power efficient.

00:42:00 ◼   ► And was that their, the trick they did.

00:42:02 ◼   ► And then, and then what happened is, um, more scores got updated.

00:42:08 ◼   ► I don't know who does this.

00:42:09 ◼   ► Is it people who don't understand that if you have geek bench and not geek bench pro,

00:42:13 ◼   ► it uploads all the scores automatically, by the way, if you're a reviewer, um, it's in

00:42:17 ◼   ► violation of your NDA.

00:42:19 ◼   ► If you do that, you can't do that.

00:42:21 ◼   ► You gotta, you gotta buy geek bench pro people.

00:42:24 ◼   ► I think it could be reviewers doing it either accidentally or purposefully.

00:42:27 ◼   ► Or people at Apple.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:30 ◼   ► It could be, or it could be Apple.

00:42:31 ◼   ► So anyway, it could be Apple.

00:42:33 ◼   ► Oh, uh, wow.

00:42:34 ◼   ► That's a, that's an interesting theory.

00:42:36 ◼   ► Anyway, it put the kibosh on this whole story because, um, A15 actually does look faster

00:42:41 ◼   ► than A14 on the iPhone.

00:42:43 ◼   ► And, uh, I had that moment where I was like, well, how could that be?

00:42:46 ◼   ► And I thought to myself, I wonder if they, did they just underclock the A15 and the iPad

00:42:52 ◼   ► mini, is it just slower than the A15 in the iPhone?

00:42:56 ◼   ► And it sounds like, yeah, that's actually what they did, which, which may mean.

00:42:59 ◼   ► So it turns out the A15, if these, uh, if these benchmark scores are accurate, um, is

00:43:07 ◼   ► about as much faster as the A14 as has been the average core improvement over the last

00:43:13 ◼   ► five years.

00:43:14 ◼   ► So not a story.

00:43:15 ◼   ► It may be just, you know, 15 to 20% faster per core.

00:43:20 ◼   ► And if that's true, then basically Apple continues the pace of CPU advancement, just like they've

00:43:27 ◼   ► been doing.

00:43:27 ◼   ► But what I think is the most interesting is first, we already knew that the iPhone 13

00:43:33 ◼   ► and 13 pro are different in the sense that there's one more GPU.

00:43:37 ◼   ► It's very much like the MacBook air, right?

00:43:40 ◼   ► That was like, has the two different GPU configurations.

00:43:44 ◼   ► Um, and that's chip binning, right?

00:43:47 ◼   ► Where they're disabling the GPU in one, because maybe it isn't up to spec or maybe it doesn't

00:43:50 ◼   ► run that well or, or whatever, but it allows them to sort of like differentiate.

00:43:54 ◼   ► They're, they're banking one chip, but they can differentiate in the products they sell

00:43:58 ◼   ► by having some of them be more advanced and some of them being less advanced.

00:44:01 ◼   ► Well, if the iPad mini.

00:44:02 ◼   ► This reduces waste and a lot of, you know, there are a lot of advantages to it.

00:44:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Because you can use chips that you might not otherwise qualify, which doesn't necessarily

00:44:10 ◼   ► mean your chip isn't qualified for the higher thing.

00:44:12 ◼   ► Cause like if they have, if they have to make a hundred MacBook errors or a hundred, uh,

00:44:16 ◼   ► iPhone 13s that have that disabled GPU and they don't have a hundred that, that need

00:44:23 ◼   ► the GPU disabled, they just disable the GPU anyway.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Like they can do it that way if they really want to, um, just to make it all consistent,

00:44:31 ◼   ► but downclocking.

00:44:33 ◼   ► So literally having the a 15 in the iPad mini run at a slower clock speed.

00:44:38 ◼   ► That's another way you do chip differentiation is it's the same chip, but it's running

00:44:43 ◼   ► at a lower clock speed.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Maybe because it has to, because it wouldn't have qualified at the higher clock speed.

00:44:48 ◼   ► Maybe because of battery life issues.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Who knows what their reasons are.

00:44:52 ◼   ► It could be lots of stuff, but it seems like, so there's one, a 15 sort of, but Apple's

00:44:59 ◼   ► actually selling it in three different configurations for now.

00:45:03 ◼   ► There might be another one coming next year.

00:45:07 ◼   ► There might be.

00:45:08 ◼   ► So, uh, so three different a 15s basically.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Oh, I guess more than right.

00:45:13 ◼   ► Because iPads, iPad pros will get it.

00:45:16 ◼   ► Max will get a version of this.

00:45:18 ◼   ► But they'll get, they'll get like an M2 or something, right?

00:45:20 ◼   ► They won't get an a 15 proper.

00:45:22 ◼   ► They'll get a iPad Air maybe.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Could get a 15 X, which would be strange.

00:45:28 ◼   ► So this is really interesting that, um, that they, that they've done this.

00:45:33 ◼   ► Um, but it also means that the, what I, what all of this happened because Apple refused

00:45:40 ◼   ► to compare the a 15 to the a 14 when they introduced the iPhone, I know probably why

00:45:45 ◼   ► they did it is because somebody in a marketing meeting said, our numbers are bigger against

00:45:49 ◼   ► Qualcomm than they are against ourselves.

00:45:50 ◼   ► Why are we comparing ourselves to ourselves?

00:45:53 ◼   ► Why don't we compare ourselves to the competition?

00:45:55 ◼   ► The numbers are much more impressive.

00:45:57 ◼   ► Instead of 20% faster, we can say 50% faster.

00:46:00 ◼   ► It's better.

00:46:01 ◼   ► Let's do that.

00:46:02 ◼   ► And also maybe, you know, like the compare ourselves to ourselves story might be more

00:46:06 ◼   ► fun for max later on in the year.

00:46:09 ◼   ► Let's not keep doing the same presentation over and over again.

00:46:11 ◼   ► Whatever it is.

00:46:12 ◼   ► And, and, but you know, it had the net effect of being like, Oh, they're not comparing themselves

00:46:16 ◼   ► to the 14.

00:46:16 ◼   ► They're only comparing themselves to like the eight 12 and the iPad mini.

00:46:19 ◼   ► So what does that mean?

00:46:20 ◼   ► And the answer is maybe nothing this week.

00:46:23 ◼   ► We'll tell, right.

00:46:24 ◼   ► Presumably we'll get a bunch of reviews this week.

00:46:26 ◼   ► That'll give us a much clearer picture.

00:46:27 ◼   ► But assuming that those those benchmark numbers are accurate it sounds like the eight 15 is

00:46:35 ◼   ► kind of just on the trail of it's it's another advancement of 15 to 20% in core efficiency.

00:46:43 ◼   ► And it, and they're, they're varying it using probably using binning.

00:46:47 ◼   ► They're varying it in the different products in order to meet whatever needs they have.

00:46:51 ◼   ► And and we'll see where they go from here, but it's, it's, it's, it's interesting, but

00:46:56 ◼   ► not in the way that maybe it seemed.

00:46:59 ◼   ► And I think it all comes down to a marketing decision that comparing themselves to Qualcomm's

00:47:03 ◼   ► chips looks better than comparing themselves to the eight 14 because the eight 14 is faster

00:47:08 ◼   ► than Qualcomm's fastest chips that are shipping.

00:47:11 ◼   ► And so Apple has, I mean, the argument is that Apple has lapped Qualcomm for a while

00:47:14 ◼   ► now they've been more than a year ahead of them.

00:47:16 ◼   ► So comparing yourself to Qualcomm is going to make you look better.

00:47:20 ◼   ► That number is going to be bigger because the Qualcomm chip is slower than the eight

00:47:24 ◼   ► 14 but it did have this weird follow on effect of us all kind of raising our eyebrows and

00:47:30 ◼   ► saying, wait a second, why aren't you talking about the eight 14 performance?

00:47:34 ◼   ► And it may just be a coincidence.

00:47:37 ◼   ► Yep.

00:47:38 ◼   ► Sometimes recording first, you know, like we record the event first and that can have

00:47:43 ◼   ► its benefits and disadvantages sometimes be in the beginning of a new week also has its

00:47:47 ◼   ► benefits and disadvantages.

00:47:49 ◼   ► Cause if we recorded this show on like Thursdays or whatever, you know, we'd be like, oh,

00:47:52 ◼   ► what's going on with the eight 15.

00:47:54 ◼   ► And now we've got the full week's worth of coverage.

00:47:55 ◼   ► It's like, oh, maybe it's not a thing at all.

00:47:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:57 ◼   ► Now we know.

00:48:00 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform to build your online

00:48:04 ◼   ► presence and run your business from websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics.

00:48:09 ◼   ► Squarespace have got you covered.

00:48:10 ◼   ► It really is the full package.

00:48:12 ◼   ► They combine cutting edge design and world-class engineering to make it easier than ever to

00:48:16 ◼   ► establish your home online and make your ideas a reality.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Whether you want to showcase your work of an incredible portfolio, publish your next blog

00:48:24 ◼   ► post, promote your business, announce an upcoming event.

00:48:26 ◼   ► So much more.

00:48:27 ◼   ► Squarespace has the tools.

00:48:28 ◼   ► You start with a professionally designed template and you use their drag and drop system to

00:48:32 ◼   ► make it your own.

00:48:34 ◼   ► You can customize the look, the feel, the settings, the products you have on sale, everything

00:48:37 ◼   ► with just a few clicks.

00:48:39 ◼   ► Everything's optimized for mobile.

00:48:40 ◼   ► Your content is going to look fantastic on all kinds of devices.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Squarespace has everything that you need to create that beautiful and modern website.

00:48:48 ◼   ► They have 24/7 customer support, unlimited hosting, top of the line security, SEO tools,

00:48:54 ◼   ► email marketing tools, even unique domain name registration as well.

00:48:58 ◼   ► There's nothing to install, nothing to patch, nothing to upgrade.

00:49:01 ◼   ► That is one of my personal very favorite features of Squarespace.

00:49:04 ◼   ► You don't have to like do a ton of work at the beginning with the setup.

00:49:08 ◼   ► You just do the fun stuff like choosing the design and customizing the design.

00:49:12 ◼   ► You don't have to do any of the stuff where you're trying to like get the website off

00:49:16 ◼   ► the ground.

00:49:17 ◼   ► That stuff for me, it just gets in the way.

00:49:19 ◼   ► I don't have to worry about that with Squarespace.

00:49:21 ◼   ► Go to squarespace.com/upgrade and you'll be able to sign up for a free trial today with

00:49:25 ◼   ► no credit card required.

00:49:27 ◼   ► Build your website and then when you're ready to launch it, use the offer code upgrade and

00:49:31 ◼   ► you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

00:49:34 ◼   ► There's squarespace.com/upgrade and then the code upgrade when you sign up to get 10% of

00:49:39 ◼   ► your first purchase and show your support for the show.

00:49:42 ◼   ► Our thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of this show and Relay FM.

00:49:46 ◼   ► iOS 15 is out today.

00:49:48 ◼   ► Yay, it's the day.

00:49:50 ◼   ► I'm expecting for most listeners of this show, iOS 15 is not something you don't already

00:49:55 ◼   ► know something about because I assume many of you, not all, but many of you will have

00:49:59 ◼   ► been on some kind of beta.

00:50:01 ◼   ► But there is a bunch of wonderful literature for you to peruse to find out stuff that you

00:50:06 ◼   ► may or may not have known.

00:50:07 ◼   ► Of course, you should always start with Federico Vittucci's incredible and comprehensive

00:50:11 ◼   ► review of iOS 15 and iPadOS 15.

00:50:14 ◼   ► The wonderful friend of the show, Dan Morin, has published a review of iOS.

00:50:19 ◼   ► Is it just iOS on the phone that Dan focuses on primarily?

00:50:23 ◼   ► Yeah, and you can start with Dan's review if you want to.

00:50:26 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:50:26 ◼   ► Start however you want.

00:50:27 ◼   ► I think that Six Colors review is excellent.

00:50:30 ◼   ► It's also shorter.

00:50:31 ◼   ► It's only about 9,000 words.

00:50:32 ◼   ► So, you know, it's going to take less time than Federico's.

00:50:34 ◼   ► Federico's, you know, you got to take your time.

00:50:36 ◼   ► So Dan focused on iOS 15, but he touches on the iPad a little bit and then I wrote a supplemental

00:50:43 ◼   ► piece to his piece that is about iPadOS 15.

00:50:46 ◼   ► So that's sort of how we split it out is I wrote a piece about the 15 experience as an

00:50:51 ◼   ► iPad user because I used iPadOS 15 as my on my primary iPad for the entire summer and

00:50:57 ◼   ► did not use it on my iPhone until like two weeks ago.

00:51:01 ◼   ► So Dan focused on iOS.

00:51:03 ◼   ► I focused on iPadOS, but there's a bunch of crossover too.

00:51:07 ◼   ► It's definitely an odd release of iOS.

00:51:12 ◼   ► I feel like there wasn't a ton of stuff to start with.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And then there's also a lot less left by the time that it's come out.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Like a lot of features have been pushed to later.

00:51:24 ◼   ► You know, SharePlay being one of them.

00:51:27 ◼   ► We spoke about it before.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Universal Control.

00:51:29 ◼   ► All this stuff coming later on.

00:51:31 ◼   ► But there is stuff there.

00:51:33 ◼   ► And I think some of the stuff that's there is actually quite interesting.

00:51:39 ◼   ► So like live text is something that is incredibly impressive.

00:51:44 ◼   ► And the more I remember to use it, the more I am impressed with it.

00:51:48 ◼   ► It's one of these things that you have to and I've noticed this in myself over the time

00:51:53 ◼   ► of using the beta.

00:51:54 ◼   ► It's a feature that you have to remember to use.

00:51:58 ◼   ► And then the more you remember to use it, the more places you find to use it.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:03 ◼   ► So like I was doing a thing recently where I had to call someone and I had their telephone

00:52:10 ◼   ► number on a piece of paper.

00:52:11 ◼   ► It was like printed on a piece of paper.

00:52:12 ◼   ► And I opened the phone app and started dialing it.

00:52:15 ◼   ► I was like, no, no, wait.

00:52:17 ◼   ► And then open the camera app and then just point at my camera and press the button and

00:52:20 ◼   ► it called them immediately.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:22 ◼   ► So it's like little things like that, which this system now has available to it, which

00:52:27 ◼   ► is very, I think it's very cool.

00:52:29 ◼   ► But we just have to make sure that we are integrating it into our workflows.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Live text is great.

00:52:36 ◼   ► I will mention one thing about it that bothers me, which is you can search.

00:52:42 ◼   ► It includes all the photos in your photo library, which is kind of amazing.

00:52:46 ◼   ► So I did a search for zebra as one of my sample searches that I do.

00:52:51 ◼   ► I do have some pictures of zebras in my photo library from zoos and from Hearst Castle where

00:52:57 ◼   ► there are zebras, if you didn't know.

00:53:00 ◼   ► And it also, I took, I had a humorous moment when we were walking on, actually the last

00:53:08 ◼   ► day we were in London for your wedding, we had a get together at a park.

00:53:12 ◼   ► And with a food, there's like a restaurant, but it's right next to a park.

00:53:18 ◼   ► We're walking down there from the tube station and there are it's a, it's a residential

00:53:24 ◼   ► street.

00:53:24 ◼   ► So it's got, you know, speed bumps basically.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And, and there's a, a sign that says something like warning zebra humps or something like

00:53:34 ◼   ► that.

00:53:35 ◼   ► This is zebra crossing.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:37 ◼   ► But, but the, the, it wasn't quite zebra crossing.

00:53:40 ◼   ► It was something, it was, it was a funny wording of the sign.

00:53:43 ◼   ► And I took a picture of it cause I thought it was a funny sign and that showed up in

00:53:47 ◼   ► my zebra search because the word zebra was on the sign.

00:53:51 ◼   ► It showed up in my search for zebra.

00:53:52 ◼   ► That's cool.

00:53:53 ◼   ► What's less cool is that if I'm in the photos app and I search for zebra.

00:53:57 ◼   ► It doesn't search for the text.

00:53:58 ◼   ► It just isn't in there.

00:54:01 ◼   ► I don't understand why.

00:54:02 ◼   ► So you can only search from spotlight.

00:54:05 ◼   ► You can search your entire photo library for text, but only from spotlight, not from photos,

00:54:10 ◼   ► which is so weird.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Right.

00:54:12 ◼   ► Like I understand why they did that looking for something.

00:54:14 ◼   ► There's this like a little joke that we have from WWDC years ago.

00:54:18 ◼   ► Uh, it's just like a poster and the poster says show dad he's rad.

00:54:23 ◼   ► And you just thought it was hilarious.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Uh, I don't know why.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Cause you read it and, and it, we misread it.

00:54:31 ◼   ► I think as show dad, like he's a show dad, whatever that is.

00:54:33 ◼   ► And he's rad.

00:54:34 ◼   ► The show dad he's rad.

00:54:35 ◼   ► Now the world knows our inside joke and yeah, you can find it, but only in spotlight.

00:54:40 ◼   ► Cause I was searching in photos and couldn't find it.

00:54:43 ◼   ► And then when you said that I've gone to spotlight and I've searched it and it came up and it's

00:54:47 ◼   ► like, why, why, why are you doing, why do you, why do you do this Apple?

00:54:52 ◼   ► Why do you do these things?

00:54:53 ◼   ► Like that, that's just so frustrating to me.

00:54:55 ◼   ► But anyway, live text itself is really cool.

00:54:57 ◼   ► Uh, Oh, Oh, I, I wanted to mention just, it's another little detail, but it shows you how

00:55:01 ◼   ► how broken this idea is that, um, if you do a spotlight search for an object and it's

00:55:06 ◼   ► only in the photos library, like a dog, but not the word dog, it'll say, it'll show you

00:55:13 ◼   ► a bunch of photos and you can tap and it'll open all of those photos in the photos app.

00:55:17 ◼   ► All the dog photos.

00:55:18 ◼   ► If you search for zebra and you also have the word zebra, it, it gives you a thing that

00:55:23 ◼   ► shows you photos with zebras and text containing zebras with a tap to see more.

00:55:29 ◼   ► And the tap to see more can't open photos because he doesn't know about text in photos.

00:55:34 ◼   ► So it opens, I guess, a second spotlight window that replaces the first results with a second

00:55:43 ◼   ► split view that says here are the ones with text and here are the ones with pictures and

00:55:47 ◼   ► you can open these in photos.

00:55:49 ◼   ► It's like, what are you doing?

00:55:51 ◼   ► Like, why, why are you building all these workarounds when you could just put the text

00:55:56 ◼   ► in photos?

00:55:57 ◼   ► I don't understand it.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Uh, I write, I write a book about photos.

00:56:01 ◼   ► I go down the rabbit hole in the summer where I poke into these various features and it's

00:56:05 ◼   ► like, why, why did you do it this way?

00:56:08 ◼   ► But live text is great.

00:56:09 ◼   ► It could be a little greater, but it's great.

00:56:13 ◼   ► You know, now you've mentioned photos.

00:56:15 ◼   ► I want to talk, talk about something in photos, which is the new memories feature.

00:56:20 ◼   ► So I don't know if you are writing an article, right?

00:56:24 ◼   ► About photos.

00:56:25 ◼   ► I don't think you've published it yet.

00:56:26 ◼   ► By the time this podcast comes out, it'll be out.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Okay.

00:56:29 ◼   ► And what's really nice.

00:56:31 ◼   ► The new memories feature.

00:56:33 ◼   ► And I don't think I do.

00:56:35 ◼   ► Huh?

00:56:36 ◼   ► What don't you like about it?

00:56:37 ◼   ► I don't like how difficult it is almost now and impossible to just see the images in the

00:56:44 ◼   ► memory.

00:56:44 ◼   ► I don't necessarily always want the movie.

00:56:49 ◼   ► And you used to be able to, and I was 14, it would show you a memory and you could just

00:56:53 ◼   ► scroll through the images and they make that incredibly difficult now.

00:56:58 ◼   ► And like most of the time, I just want to see the images.

00:57:00 ◼   ► I don't want all the music and stuff.

00:57:02 ◼   ► Well, you can, you can like tap through and see them that way.

00:57:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:09 ◼   ► But sometimes I just like to look at it.

00:57:11 ◼   ► I don't need like, here's a song from it, you know, like, you know, which is, but I

00:57:15 ◼   ► mean, as well, you said it, the music has been good for you for me.

00:57:18 ◼   ► Like, I don't know where the music comes from because I don't think I've hit a memory yet

00:57:23 ◼   ► with a song that I have in my music library.

00:57:25 ◼   ► So what, what it does is if you listen to Apple music on your device that you're viewing

00:57:31 ◼   ► the photos on, it knows what music you listen to on Apple music.

00:57:34 ◼   ► And, or maybe if it's, if it's in your iCloud account, so it knows it knows what photos

00:57:40 ◼   ► or what kinds of music you like.

00:57:42 ◼   ► It also has a library of photos that are of music that are allowed to be used with memories.

00:57:47 ◼   ► And it does some smart selection based on the kind of memory it is and based on the

00:57:55 ◼   ► music it knows about.

00:57:56 ◼   ► But yeah, I get, I get some options and you can tap and get different options for songs

00:58:02 ◼   ► and you can even pick your own, but I get some options that are songs I know.

00:58:07 ◼   ► And then there are other options where I'm like, Oh, this is a beach memories thing.

00:58:11 ◼   ► And this is a beach or summer or something song.

00:58:15 ◼   ► And that's, I think it's very clever.

00:58:17 ◼   ► - I have watched the movies and enjoyed them.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Like I'm not saying that it is that they've done a bad job, right?

00:58:23 ◼   ► Like I've watched a few of them and like, Oh, thank you.

00:58:25 ◼   ► But I don't always want to watch the movie.

00:58:28 ◼   ► Sometimes I just want to see the images and I kind of, it's annoyed me that it's like,

00:58:32 ◼   ► it always just wants to show me a movie now.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Like, and for me to try and stop it doing that is difficult.

00:58:39 ◼   ► - I like them.

00:58:40 ◼   ► I think they're, I think they're much better.

00:58:41 ◼   ► They used to have it be, it was kind of like an automatic album,

00:58:47 ◼   ► but it was also a movie that you could kind of edit,

00:58:51 ◼   ► but it was just sort of in the header.

00:58:52 ◼   ► And they basically thrown that away and said,

00:58:54 ◼   ► movies are now or memories are now these dynamic kind of slideshows

00:58:58 ◼   ► that you can tap through like a slideshow,

00:59:00 ◼   ► but you can also just let them play and the music goes,

00:59:02 ◼   ► you can edit them to add or remove memories if you really care,

00:59:05 ◼   ► you can discard them fairly easily.

00:59:07 ◼   ► I think they're much smarter.

00:59:08 ◼   ► I think the music selections are better than they were before.

00:59:11 ◼   ► They're also timed to the beat, which is very clever.

00:59:13 ◼   ► And they like auto sense and try to put on like a filter as well.

00:59:19 ◼   ► They are recognizing like they do different kinds of animations.

00:59:23 ◼   ► They're looking at like where the faces are and they're looking at sort of similar images

00:59:28 ◼   ► with different content in them and doing them like as a one, two punch of like,

00:59:33 ◼   ► there's a person staring at the camera and then a person smiling.

00:59:36 ◼   ► And there's a lot of intelligence behind it.

00:59:38 ◼   ► It's not perfect, but I feel like it's really good and easy.

00:59:43 ◼   ► And that combined with putting the photos widget out on my iPad home screen,

00:59:49 ◼   ► which is great, has unearthed all sorts of fun stuff that I would not have gone back to.

00:59:55 ◼   ► So I'm basically a proponent of it.

00:59:58 ◼   ► What I don't like about it is that it's not in Mac OS Monterey yet.

01:00:01 ◼   ► It's coming later.

01:00:03 ◼   ► So, I mean, it won't be there at launch of Monterey whenever that happens.

01:00:08 ◼   ► And so there's the old memories remain on the Mac for now,

01:00:11 ◼   ► but they are committed to replacing memories on the Mac as well.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Right.

01:00:14 ◼   ► I'm much more a fan of featured photos than memories.

01:00:17 ◼   ► I just like seeing old photos.

01:00:19 ◼   ► That's my favorite thing.

01:00:21 ◼   ► All right.

01:00:22 ◼   ► I maintain that I've mentioned this in the show before.

01:00:25 ◼   ► I really hate the shared with you thing in photos.

01:00:28 ◼   ► I really don't like just these random photos showing up in the library.

01:00:32 ◼   ► So the way it's supposed to work.

01:00:34 ◼   ► I know.

01:00:35 ◼   ► Is that if you, if it's a photo of you or a photo of at a location that it knows that you were at

01:00:42 ◼   ► a time and place that you were, it puts that thumbnail in your photos library with a little

01:00:47 ◼   ► tag on it that says this came from messages.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Somebody shared this with you and you can add it to your library or not, but it shows up in the

01:00:54 ◼   ► context.

01:00:55 ◼   ► It's a little bit weird, but when it works, it's a little more delightful.

01:01:00 ◼   ► You have said that it, that inappropriate photos are being inserted in your photos library.

01:01:05 ◼   ► It's not supposed to work that way.

01:01:06 ◼   ► Then again, it was a beta.

01:01:07 ◼   ► Maybe it works better now that it's final, but it's not supposed to work that way.

01:01:11 ◼   ► And I haven't seen that all the photos that have gotten inserted.

01:01:13 ◼   ► Like there was a photo from when I was at a baseball game and it was a picture Lauren took

01:01:18 ◼   ► and she sent it to me because I think it was literally, this is the beer they have, which

01:01:23 ◼   ► one do you want?

01:01:24 ◼   ► And, and that's in my library.

01:01:27 ◼   ► And it's like, well, I was there for that.

01:01:28 ◼   ► That makes sense.

01:01:29 ◼   ► It's actually part of that.

01:01:31 ◼   ► The better feature is that in messages, you get a little download arrow next to every photo

01:01:36 ◼   ► that somebody sends you.

01:01:37 ◼   ► And if you tap it, it adds it to your photos library, which is, should have been there a

01:01:41 ◼   ► long time ago, but now it's like super easy to add things to your photos library if you

01:01:45 ◼   ► want and shared with you out on the top level of the photos app shows you all the photos

01:01:50 ◼   ► that have been shared with you, which is useful because you can go in and say, yes, I do want

01:01:55 ◼   ► to add that in putting them in the context of your photos library.

01:01:59 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:02:00 ◼   ► I see what they're trying to do there.

01:02:01 ◼   ► I think maybe it should be more sacrosanct than that.

01:02:04 ◼   ► And, and, and not put it in the actual, like, show me all my photos, except also some other

01:02:10 ◼   ► photos that have gotten in here.

01:02:12 ◼   ► Cause that's maybe that was a metaphor that they shouldn't have broken.

01:02:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it doesn't, I found that it doesn't work for me, but even if it does work the

01:02:21 ◼   ► way that they want perfectly, I still would just prefer to choose just how I am.

01:02:26 ◼   ► Right.

01:02:27 ◼   ► You know, like if someone sends me a bunch of images, I will look through them and I

01:02:30 ◼   ► will save the ones I like.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Like that's just like a thing that I do.

01:02:33 ◼   ► I, for me personally, I don't need the phone to do that, but you can very easily turn it

01:02:38 ◼   ► off.

01:02:38 ◼   ► So I, I really disagree about the utility of shared with you in the, for you tab in

01:02:46 ◼   ► photos, because I, the thing I like about shared with you in general in iOS 15 is I

01:02:53 ◼   ► think it's really stupid to force people to go back and find a message in messages when

01:02:58 ◼   ► they know somebody sent them a link or a picture when the better context is in Safari and

01:03:04 ◼   ► photos.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I wish that that was all it did.

01:03:07 ◼   ► Like just in that there's a, in the for you page, I could get them, but I can't choose

01:03:12 ◼   ► to just have that.

01:03:14 ◼   ► And then also not have them show up in my recent or in my actual photo library.

01:03:19 ◼   ► In your actual photo.

01:03:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:19 ◼   ► And that I see that they have a toggle, but if you change that

01:03:23 ◼   ► toggle, it just resets itself after a certain period of time.

01:03:26 ◼   ► It's like, I wished that I could have the for you section in the, like the shared with

01:03:32 ◼   ► you in the for you section of the photos app.

01:03:35 ◼   ► I think that's really great.

01:03:36 ◼   ► But if I leave the setting on it, then also puts the images in my photo library, which

01:03:42 ◼   ► is not a thing that I want because it hasn't been reliable enough for me.

01:03:47 ◼   ► But even if it was, I still don't want that.

01:03:49 ◼   ► I still want to choose what images I put in my own photo library.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Um, but I can't, you know, it's either for me, it's like either don't have it on at all

01:03:58 ◼   ► or have it on and be annoyed.

01:04:00 ◼   ► So I decided to turn it off and I will just continue to work as I work before iOS 15.

01:04:05 ◼   ► But anyway, I want to get back to stuff I like, cause that really, I like most of this

01:04:11 ◼   ► stuff and then we've, I'm kind of just railing on this now.

01:04:14 ◼   ► Focus is great.

01:04:15 ◼   ► Uh, I've just set up one focus mode so far, which is for recording.

01:04:19 ◼   ► Uh, and I really liked that I'm able to say like, if such and such a person sends me a

01:04:24 ◼   ► message, they can come through and I'm intrigued to see as more apps get the time sensitive

01:04:29 ◼   ► stuff, which ones I'll allow in.

01:04:31 ◼   ► Um, in general, I think that the time sensitive notifications thing is cool.

01:04:37 ◼   ► I wished that I could define within an application myself, which type of notifications I think

01:04:46 ◼   ► are time sensitive rather than the developer.

01:04:49 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:04:49 ◼   ► Um, so, but you know, maybe that's something that will get a little bit more tweaking over

01:04:55 ◼   ► time.

01:04:56 ◼   ► Uh, but I do really like the focus mode.

01:04:58 ◼   ► I wanted to set up some more.

01:04:59 ◼   ► Uh, there was one I keep mentioning, but I think it's so cool.

01:05:02 ◼   ► Uh, Matt Bishoff, friend of the show, uh, set up a travel focus, which then creates like

01:05:07 ◼   ► to sets a bunch of preferences, but also makes your home screen, a travel focused home screen

01:05:12 ◼   ► with relative widgets and applications, stuff like that I think is really smart.

01:05:16 ◼   ► And so I want to do some stuff like that.

01:05:17 ◼   ► One of the things I like about focus that was unclear over the summer is apps supporting

01:05:24 ◼   ► focus makes a big difference.

01:05:26 ◼   ► So for example, Slack, where we get lots of messages supporting focus means that now when

01:05:37 ◼   ► I say I want to see messages from Myke, when I'm in this, when I'm in my work mode, Myke

01:05:42 ◼   ► can break through, but other people can't.

01:05:45 ◼   ► It knows when you are sending me a message in Slack and that you are Myke.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Um, and you get a, you get, and I don't know if this is cause I'm on a Slack beta.

01:05:56 ◼   ► It may not be out yet for everybody, but you start to get notifications that say, Oh, you

01:06:01 ◼   ► got a Slack message from Myke.

01:06:02 ◼   ► This seems to be Myke Hurley from your contacts.

01:06:05 ◼   ► Do you want me to add his Slack ID to your, to his contact?

01:06:09 ◼   ► So, um, I know that that's him.

01:06:12 ◼   ► And if you say yes, now it knows all your Slack messages are also you.

01:06:16 ◼   ► And to let them through when you're allowed by focus and like that is that extra level

01:06:23 ◼   ► that makes this all work better is if the apps support it, then everybody's working

01:06:28 ◼   ► together because it doesn't, it isn't so great when you say, I want to hear from Myke

01:06:34 ◼   ► and it goes, well, I don't know what Slack's doing, so I'm only going to send you iMessages

01:06:38 ◼   ► from Myke.

01:06:39 ◼   ► So it's gotten and we'll continue to get a lot better as apps support focus.

01:06:43 ◼   ► I haven't seen any of that myself yet.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Yeah, it must be the Slack beta that I'm on, but it's great.

01:06:48 ◼   ► It works really well.

01:06:50 ◼   ► So that will presumably be forthcoming to a Slack final release somewhere.

01:06:55 ◼   ► But, uh, the moment that they updated and I started getting those messages, which I think

01:06:59 ◼   ► was like Thursday last week, I, I, I started to nod and be like, Oh, okay.

01:07:04 ◼   ► Focus has now gotten a lot better just by that focus got way better for me.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Cause I get so many messages that are coming through in Slack.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Okay.

01:07:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:12 ◼   ► I haven't seen that, but I will, I hope that a lot of apps adopt that fast and then other

01:07:17 ◼   ► types of things like the Apple have done in the past.

01:07:20 ◼   ► My big problem with focus, and this is more for when we talk about Mac OS Monterey, whenever

01:07:24 ◼   ► that happens, but focus on the Mac isn't as good.

01:07:26 ◼   ► It's, it's re way more limited and disappointing in a lot of ways, but on iOS, I'm interested

01:07:35 ◼   ► in it.

01:07:36 ◼   ► I think the challenge is going to be how we, do we really use it?

01:07:41 ◼   ► And I think your suggestion of something like a travel focus, I feel like one of the great

01:07:45 ◼   ► benefits, I know Apple's trying this with their presets, but like, I think focus is

01:07:49 ◼   ► really going to work for people when they, when they get a focus idea that clicks with

01:07:53 ◼   ► them.

01:07:53 ◼   ► And they're like, yes, that is a scenario that I could be a part of, right?

01:07:56 ◼   ► Whether it's travel or when I'm working or whatever it is.

01:08:00 ◼   ► And in general, I like the idea of breaking do not disturb, which is such a blanket concept

01:08:05 ◼   ► up into individual little bits.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:08 ◼   ► The only one I've set up right now is a recording focus.

01:08:12 ◼   ► And I'm gonna, I don't know, I'm going to tweak it a little bit more, but it is one

01:08:16 ◼   ► of those things where, like you were saying, was like, I've kind of wait until I'm getting

01:08:22 ◼   ► all of my apps updated, which are all happening today, right?

01:08:25 ◼   ► Like there's a bunch of stuff going on right now.

01:08:26 ◼   ► Like one password got an update.

01:08:28 ◼   ► They've put the web extension in their iOS app.

01:08:31 ◼   ► Like it, this is things like, this is always normal, right?

01:08:33 ◼   ► Like you can, you can play around on the beta as much as you want, but really this stuff

01:08:38 ◼   ► actually does unlock on release day when all of the apps that you use update to get all

01:08:43 ◼   ► of the features, the operating system supports.

01:08:45 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:08:45 ◼   ► And so I guess focus is clearly one of those ones.

01:08:49 ◼   ► I didn't even know that it could do that.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Like I knew that there was a way that apps could tie into it, but I didn't know that

01:08:55 ◼   ► the system would tell you.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And it's like a similar one.

01:08:57 ◼   ► I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I do like that it's there in notifications where

01:09:02 ◼   ► if you're getting a bunch of notifications from an app or a conversation, it's like,

01:09:06 ◼   ► Hey, do you want to mute this for a little bit?

01:09:08 ◼   ► And I like that it's there.

01:09:09 ◼   ► And I like that I can just say no.

01:09:11 ◼   ► And I have, I think I've used it once or twice.

01:09:13 ◼   ► So you're in a chatty group thread and you're just like, I don't want to respond to this

01:09:17 ◼   ► right now.

01:09:17 ◼   ► And you can just mute the notifications for like an hour or something, which I think is

01:09:21 ◼   ► it's kind of cool.

01:09:21 ◼   ► Um, there's, there, there are a lot of stuff going on in notifications.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Have you tried out any of the like summaries or anything like that?

01:09:31 ◼   ► No, I haven't.

01:09:32 ◼   ► I don't like it.

01:09:33 ◼   ► I tried it and I don't really, I don't really like it.

01:09:36 ◼   ► I also changed as like a new default setting where I think I noticed works with do not

01:09:41 ◼   ► disturb.

01:09:41 ◼   ► I don't know if this is the same for focuses in general where you can, uh, it will like

01:09:49 ◼   ► collapse all of the notifications you received during do not disturb into its own area.

01:09:54 ◼   ► And I don't like that.

01:09:57 ◼   ► I don't like that.

01:09:59 ◼   ► I don't like that because it's like now you have these like two separate sets of notifications

01:10:03 ◼   ► and so you can turn that off.

01:10:04 ◼   ► And I turn that off.

01:10:06 ◼   ► I use notifications pretty seldomly.

01:10:11 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:11 ◼   ► And I don't have a, a strategy for them because they generally just annoy me.

01:10:18 ◼   ► So I tend to just turn everything off about notifications except for very specific like

01:10:23 ◼   ► messages from people.

01:10:25 ◼   ► And even then it's much more about in the moment than it is about going back through

01:10:30 ◼   ► a list of them later.

01:10:31 ◼   ► Maybe when I wake up in the morning, that's about it.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Safari.

01:10:34 ◼   ► Yep.

01:10:35 ◼   ► I love Safari.

01:10:37 ◼   ► Okay.

01:10:37 ◼   ► I'm happy for you.

01:10:38 ◼   ► I have no, I mean, I don't have the bad feelings everybody else is cause I never used it during

01:10:45 ◼   ► the bad times, but yeah, I think, um, I think Safari on the iPhone is going to take people

01:10:52 ◼   ► some, it takes some getting used to, but actually is, is much better now.

01:10:55 ◼   ► Um, I do than it was over the summer.

01:10:58 ◼   ► I think the bar down at the bottom takes them getting used to, but it's actually not a bad

01:11:02 ◼   ► place for it.

01:11:03 ◼   ► And the fact that you can swipe between tabs and that the tabs are better rendered on the

01:11:07 ◼   ► iPhone is good on the iPad.

01:11:09 ◼   ► It's not as radical a change from 14 and they've, they've kind of D uh, Safari 15, a lot of

01:11:18 ◼   ► the stuff before the shipping.

01:11:19 ◼   ► However, I will say I think the TA the look of the tabs is, is kind of weird and dumb.

01:11:25 ◼   ► Um, I think a lot of people aren't going to like the colored background and you can turn

01:11:29 ◼   ► that off, which is fine.

01:11:31 ◼   ► And the one that I'm just going to rail against because it's, it's pointless is they have

01:11:36 ◼   ► the tabs.

01:11:37 ◼   ► And then if you have your favorites bar showing, it shows below the tabs, which doesn't make

01:11:42 ◼   ► sense because the favorites don't change when you change tabs.

01:11:45 ◼   ► And so they should be in the hierarchy above the tabs, not below the tabs.

01:11:49 ◼   ► I don't know why they're below the tabs.

01:11:51 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense.

01:11:53 ◼   ► And Apple, please fix that.

01:11:55 ◼   ► But, um, you know, otherwise, um, I think it's, I think it's fine.

01:11:59 ◼   ► And I am very happy that there are extensions on iOS now for Safari.

01:12:03 ◼   ► That's a big win.

01:12:04 ◼   ► I think that's something I haven't really had much experience with yet and tab groups,

01:12:11 ◼   ► which is a good feature on the iPad.

01:12:13 ◼   ► Now you can tap and hold on the, a little sidebar icon and it pops up all your tab groups.

01:12:20 ◼   ► So it's very easy to get to them without opening the sidebar, which is good because I'm one

01:12:24 ◼   ► of those people who does not want that sidebar open, um, because I don't want to open it

01:12:27 ◼   ► and then do something and then close it again.

01:12:29 ◼   ► That's three taps.

01:12:30 ◼   ► I don't want to do that.

01:12:31 ◼   ► It's really annoying.

01:12:33 ◼   ► So I like that you can tap and hold and switch between tab groups and that they've done a

01:12:38 ◼   ► really good job.

01:12:38 ◼   ► If you tap and hold on a tab, you can send it off to another tab group.

01:12:43 ◼   ► That's also a really good feature.

01:12:44 ◼   ► I think it works really well on the iPad and I like tab groups as an idea.

01:12:49 ◼   ► It's not going to be for everybody, but the idea that you have sort of customizable tab

01:12:53 ◼   ► sets that sync across all your devices, I think it's really smart.

01:12:56 ◼   ► And then a lot of people are going to love it.

01:12:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:58 ◼   ► I'm big into the tab groups.

01:13:00 ◼   ► I have like a couple of different ones and I really liked them.

01:13:03 ◼   ► Well, I have all of my, I, I'm not a big over tab kind of person, but I

01:13:08 ◼   ► have products that I'm looking at for like, maybe I'll buy this and they sit forever in

01:13:15 ◼   ► my tabs and they're just off to the left and they just sit there.

01:13:18 ◼   ► And sometimes I accidentally close them and then forget that I was looking at them, which

01:13:22 ◼   ► is really dumb.

01:13:23 ◼   ► And now I have a tab group that they'll go in and they stay there until I need them.

01:13:28 ◼   ► And it's so much better because it's cleared out my main tab group and they just stay there

01:13:33 ◼   ► and they live there and I can find them when I need them.

01:13:35 ◼   ► I might steal that idea from you.

01:13:37 ◼   ► That's a good idea because I always have a lot of tabs for things I want to buy and they're

01:13:41 ◼   ► on different, different devices or whatever.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Similarly.

01:13:44 ◼   ► But for me, like I have a couple of businesses that I run and I do a lot of stuff in Safari

01:13:49 ◼   ► and now I can have more tabs open for those businesses and just keep them off in their

01:13:54 ◼   ► own little buckets.

01:13:55 ◼   ► And I just come to them when I need them.

01:13:57 ◼   ► And so I like that it, like, it means that I can not, I don't have to have 20 tabs open

01:14:03 ◼   ► everywhere all the time.

01:14:04 ◼   ► I can just put them into a bunch of buckets and hide them away and just come to them when

01:14:07 ◼   ► I need them.

01:14:08 ◼   ► And when I'm in that mode or I'm doing things for those particular businesses or whatever.

01:14:12 ◼   ► So I like that a lot.

01:14:14 ◼   ► That's, that's pretty nice.

01:14:15 ◼   ► I really like the bottom URL bar on the iPhone.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's smart.

01:14:22 ◼   ► I, um, I think you just got to get over your initial reaction to what the heck is this?

01:14:27 ◼   ► Why is it down there?

01:14:29 ◼   ► Is this some sort of mistake?

01:14:30 ◼   ► But I think if you live with it, you will actually like it.

01:14:32 ◼   ► The only issue I have is that the gesture to the gestures get in the way of the gestures

01:14:38 ◼   ► of the phone.

01:14:40 ◼   ► Like it's weird.

01:14:41 ◼   ► It's weird how close those two things are considering they do the exact same thing and

01:14:47 ◼   ► they look the same too when you're performing the gesture.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Like there have been many times where I've meant to like skip left to right on tabs and

01:14:54 ◼   ► have just changed app and say, Oh, okay.

01:14:57 ◼   ► But you know, it's like with a lot of these kinds of gestures, like at a certain point

01:15:01 ◼   ► you just like muscle memory them and I'm assuming that's going to be similar.

01:15:04 ◼   ► I really like widgets in the app library on the iPad.

01:15:08 ◼   ► Your story seems to suggest that I don't think you like them as much as me.

01:15:13 ◼   ► I like, okay.

01:15:14 ◼   ► I like widgets on the iPad.

01:15:17 ◼   ► We finally have freedom with them.

01:15:19 ◼   ► I like app library on the iPad.

01:15:23 ◼   ► I don't like app library.

01:15:25 ◼   ► I think it's a dumb redundant feature that isn't as useful as Apple thinks it is.

01:15:28 ◼   ► And that since you can search for apps in spotlight, I don't think it needs to exist.

01:15:33 ◼   ► I think you just need to have a list of apps somewhere.

01:15:35 ◼   ► What I like about app library is that it means that on the iPad, you can now remove apps

01:15:40 ◼   ► from your home screen and they stay on your device.

01:15:44 ◼   ► And that's great.

01:15:44 ◼   ► I have one screen for my iPad now and I love it.

01:15:47 ◼   ► And it's got multiple widgets on it, including widgets that aren't on the left side, which

01:15:52 ◼   ► is also great.

01:15:53 ◼   ► So that's all really good.

01:15:55 ◼   ► However, I feel like this is minimal effort from Apple.

01:16:01 ◼   ► Like we didn't get any of this in iPad OS 14, even though it was on the iPhone.

01:16:07 ◼   ► Instead, they just kind of kept it, the widgets in the sidebar and they didn't do app library.

01:16:11 ◼   ► And I thought, okay, well, I get it.

01:16:14 ◼   ► You got to prioritize.

01:16:15 ◼   ► We'll get it on iPad OS in iPad OS 15.

01:16:20 ◼   ► I think my assumption was that they would make an iPad version, maybe as part of a larger

01:16:28 ◼   ► rethinking of the home screen.

01:16:29 ◼   ► Cause I think the iPad home screen has never really made sense and still doesn't make sense.

01:16:34 ◼   ► And that's my disappointment is not that I don't like putting widgets on the home screen.

01:16:38 ◼   ► And it's not like what app library enables me to do in removing apps from my home screen

01:16:43 ◼   ► while keeping them on my device.

01:16:45 ◼   ► What I don't like is a couple of things.

01:16:48 ◼   ► One is it feels like the minimal amount of effort there.

01:16:52 ◼   ► It's not app library reinvented for the iPad.

01:16:54 ◼   ► It's literally app library.

01:16:56 ◼   ► It's not widgets on the home screen reinvented for the iPad.

01:16:59 ◼   ► And we changed the iPads.

01:17:01 ◼   ► All they did was they, they changed the size of the grid of the apps so that they match

01:17:06 ◼   ► the size of the widgets.

01:17:07 ◼   ► That's all they did.

01:17:09 ◼   ► And so I think the, actually the home screen on the iPad is kind of weirder now because

01:17:14 ◼   ► of the, the way that the apps are spaced.

01:17:18 ◼   ► So it's fine.

01:17:19 ◼   ► I like it on the base level of let me see if this is better than what was there before.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:25 ◼   ► But if I'm analyzing this and writing a review of it, I got to say, this is the minimum that

01:17:33 ◼   ► I would have expected and no more.

01:17:35 ◼   ► And I'm disappointed because I think the iPad home screen really needs to be rethought and

01:17:40 ◼   ► it didn't happen.

01:17:42 ◼   ► And I also, while I like the fact that the iPad widgets can be placed.

01:17:49 ◼   ► So, you know, your apps all go in an order and that order is that order, whether you

01:17:53 ◼   ► rotate the screen or not, they don't flip around, they don't move around in different

01:17:56 ◼   ► places.

01:17:56 ◼   ► The sequence of the apps from left to right, top to bottom, like your is, you can't place

01:18:03 ◼   ► them dynamically.

01:18:04 ◼   ► They go in order.

01:18:04 ◼   ► The one thing that they did in iPadOS 15 that I appreciate is that widgets aren't like that.

01:18:10 ◼   ► You can separately place widgets in portrait and landscape and they stay where they are

01:18:16 ◼   ► in portrait and landscape.

01:18:17 ◼   ► When you rotate it, they move to the new location and then the apps flow around them.

01:18:21 ◼   ► I think that's clever.

01:18:22 ◼   ► I did not know that, Jason.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:18:25 ◼   ► I thought that like, oh, I just thought that they were staying in place, but rotating and

01:18:31 ◼   ► like, if I moved them on one, it would change them on the other.

01:18:34 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:18:35 ◼   ► I did not.

01:18:36 ◼   ► I did not know that.

01:18:37 ◼   ► Okay.

01:18:38 ◼   ► So that's one thing you can try.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Um, what I don't like is that it's like a wrestling match with the app icons to get

01:18:47 ◼   ► them to be like every time an app moves or a widget moves, all the app icons move.

01:18:53 ◼   ► And I end up in a situation where I want these apps down the left side, or these, these widgets

01:18:58 ◼   ► down the left side.

01:18:59 ◼   ► And suddenly one of the widgets has gotten kicked out and now it's over on the right

01:19:03 ◼   ► and some apps are in there where that widget was.

01:19:05 ◼   ► And I gotta be like, no, put the widget back where it is.

01:19:07 ◼   ► And then it pushes the lower widget out.

01:19:10 ◼   ► And then I have to move the lower widget out.

01:19:12 ◼   ► Like I it's so dumb, like that you have to keep pushing the widgets around to get the

01:19:18 ◼   ► apps to move in order to get the widgets to be where you want them to be.

01:19:22 ◼   ► I just, it's just, it's frustrating and it's dumb.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Like it should be better.

01:19:29 ◼   ► And so am I happy?

01:19:31 ◼   ► So this is the thing about reviewing an operating system, right?

01:19:34 ◼   ► Am I as a user grateful that this feature exists now?

01:19:36 ◼   ► Yes, I am grateful.

01:19:38 ◼   ► Thank you, Apple, for making this feature.

01:19:40 ◼   ► Am I as an observer of operating systems and usability and whatever else you want to say

01:19:45 ◼   ► that I am happy with how it's implemented?

01:19:48 ◼   ► No, I'm not.

01:19:49 ◼   ► I'm not.

01:19:49 ◼   ► I think they could have done a better job.

01:19:51 ◼   ► And I think that there are very particular parts of it that are frustrating to use, even

01:19:57 ◼   ► if the end result is good.

01:19:58 ◼   ► And like anytime you change something and the apps start rolling around and mixing with

01:20:02 ◼   ► the widgets again, and you got to fight to get them back and you got to play like Tetris,

01:20:06 ◼   ► to be like, well, if I put this here, now it kicks all those out.

01:20:10 ◼   ► Oh, now it's kicked it into another screen.

01:20:12 ◼   ► I'm going to have to get that app back later.

01:20:14 ◼   ► And you got to like have a strategy for how you move your widgets around on the screen.

01:20:17 ◼   ► You know, there's gotta be a better way.

01:20:19 ◼   ► And I think it comes down to Apple's refusal to allow more freeform placement of icons

01:20:27 ◼   ► on the screen, right?

01:20:29 ◼   ► Like, like you can't just say, I want this icon at bottom, right?

01:20:31 ◼   ► It's like, no, no, no icons go from top left to bottom, right?

01:20:35 ◼   ► In a sequence from left to right.

01:20:37 ◼   ► And they wrap around like their letters on a page.

01:20:40 ◼   ► That's how they work.

01:20:41 ◼   ► And they are unwilling to change that or have at least not changed it yet.

01:20:47 ◼   ► And I think they should.

01:20:48 ◼   ► So again, nice, but also super disappointing, like at the same time for me.

01:20:54 ◼   ► I think it's a pretty, like thinking about it now, just like looking at it, it's a really

01:21:01 ◼   ► strange decision that you still can't freeform, put app icons wherever you want.

01:21:05 ◼   ► Like, yeah, it's just weird that that's still like a thing.

01:21:11 ◼   ► Like, why do you care that much app?

01:21:15 ◼   ► Like, do you like, why do you care that?

01:21:17 ◼   ► Like if I only want five apps on my home screen, why did I have to start in the top?

01:21:23 ◼   ► Like, why, why, why do you care?

01:21:26 ◼   ► The optimist in me says that the app library thing is the start of a larger rethinking

01:21:31 ◼   ► of this because remember now we don't have to have every icon that of every app that

01:21:35 ◼   ► is installed.

01:21:36 ◼   ► It's like step one, but like, okay, where's step two?

01:21:40 ◼   ► And the iPad didn't get step two.

01:21:41 ◼   ► The iPad waited a year and got step one.

01:21:43 ◼   ► And that's the source of a lot of my frustration.

01:21:46 ◼   ► And also just the fact that it like the iPhone probably needs a home screen revision too.

01:21:53 ◼   ► But the iPad has always like literally always needed it.

01:21:57 ◼   ► Remember the first iPad came out and everybody said, wow, all those spaced out icons.

01:22:02 ◼   ► That's kind of weird.

01:22:03 ◼   ► We thought they'd do something different on the iPad.

01:22:05 ◼   ► I'm sure they'll fix that and they've never fixed it.

01:22:08 ◼   ► So I don't know, maybe something is coming.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Maybe they've got a whole list of things or maybe they think this is fine.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Like I said, I don't think app library is that great.

01:22:16 ◼   ► I think it's redundant with other features of the operating system and it doesn't really

01:22:19 ◼   ► make sense that they added it.

01:22:21 ◼   ► But also there are these other ways, like I'm frustrated by that too.

01:22:25 ◼   ► And I don't think the little dynamically generated app collections are particularly useful to

01:22:30 ◼   ► me.

01:22:30 ◼   ► I end up going to app library and being like, oh, it's app library.

01:22:34 ◼   ► I guess I could search here too, just like a Canon spotlight, but that's about all I

01:22:37 ◼   ► do.

01:22:38 ◼   ► So it is, it's kind of bananas that they have.

01:22:41 ◼   ► Yeah, you got a, you got a big iPad and you want to put that icon down here.

01:22:44 ◼   ► It's like, nope, it doesn't go down there.

01:22:46 ◼   ► It goes up.

01:22:47 ◼   ► That's the only place it can go is up.

01:22:48 ◼   ► - The only way is up, baby.

01:22:50 ◼   ► - The only way.

01:22:52 ◼   ► Can I, can I mention quick note?

01:22:53 ◼   ► Like quick note, and this is a kind of a theme of my feeling about iPad OS 15.

01:22:58 ◼   ► It's like good, but quick notes really good on the iPad.

01:23:06 ◼   ► It's not on the iPhone and it's pointless on the Mac because quick notes killer feature

01:23:12 ◼   ► is that it's a note window that floats over other apps on the Mac.

01:23:16 ◼   ► That's just a window.

01:23:18 ◼   ► So irrelevant really on the iPad, it is this moment where you're in an app and you drag

01:23:25 ◼   ► from the bottom, right?

01:23:26 ◼   ► And there's a little floating note window and you can write with a pencil or you can

01:23:29 ◼   ► type and you get a little note and it's context based and you can insert metadata from some

01:23:34 ◼   ► apps that if apps offer their metadata up, you can like add them to your note, which

01:23:38 ◼   ► is a really nice kind of clever way to annotate the note that you're, you're making.

01:23:44 ◼   ► And they, and Apple rolled in like a cool Safari feature where if you select text and

01:23:47 ◼   ► Safari on a particular page, it's linked so that if you go back to that page, the quick

01:23:51 ◼   ► note is there and it knows that it's there.

01:23:53 ◼   ► All that is good, but my larger point is really the killer feature of quick note is that Apple

01:24:01 ◼   ► is allowing a single system app in a single instance to float above other apps, which

01:24:08 ◼   ► is nice, but you know what would be nicer is if app windows could float above other

01:24:14 ◼   ► apps in general in iPad OS, which they should be able to do.

01:24:18 ◼   ► So while I applaud Apple for quick note, and I feel like quick note may be a glimmer of

01:24:24 ◼   ► what might be the future of the iPad at some point between quick note and the fact that

01:24:27 ◼   ► they've got those kind of floating windows, like in mail where there's like a message

01:24:31 ◼   ► window that's floating above the rest of the mail window.

01:24:34 ◼   ► Like there are glimmers of that, but in the, in the short term, I look at quick note and

01:24:41 ◼   ► I think, thank you for this interesting feature, but it's only really interesting because

01:24:45 ◼   ► of all of the limitations that you put on your operating system and like, so thanks

01:24:49 ◼   ► for taking off one of the chains.

01:24:51 ◼   ► So yeah, it's a good feature, but it really is only good because it can do what every

01:24:58 ◼   ► window on the Mac can do.

01:24:59 ◼   ► I guess the, I haven't tried it Monterey, right?

01:25:04 ◼   ► I haven't tried Monterey at all.

01:25:05 ◼   ► I guess you can tell me like the thing on an iPad OS that's, I like this

01:25:11 ◼   ► interesting and again, as more apps I'm seeing in release notes are updating on it and it's

01:25:15 ◼   ► cool is like, you get this little ability to like, just press a little button and you

01:25:19 ◼   ► can add a deep link to wherever you're looking at.

01:25:22 ◼   ► Do you get that on the Mac too?

01:25:24 ◼   ► Do you get that?

01:25:24 ◼   ► The metadata sharing is cool.

01:25:26 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:25:27 ◼   ► Honestly, I've, I've used it very little on the Mac because it's super boring.

01:25:30 ◼   ► Cause it's literally opening a window is what it is on the Mac.

01:25:34 ◼   ► It's like, Oh, it's a notes window with a note.

01:25:37 ◼   ► Like it's just not that interesting.

01:25:40 ◼   ► It is something to say though, that like, this is finally a feature for the iPad.

01:25:45 ◼   ► That's great for the iPad.

01:25:47 ◼   ► Like it's rare that this happens.

01:25:48 ◼   ► It's usually the other two that get it.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Right.

01:25:50 ◼   ► So like I will hand that to it, but it is really frustrating to me that I can't find

01:25:55 ◼   ► some way to do this on my iPhone.

01:25:58 ◼   ► My iPhone, especially screen is big enough to handle a floating window.

01:26:02 ◼   ► Right?

01:26:03 ◼   ► Like we can make that work.

01:26:04 ◼   ► It can do picture in picture.

01:26:06 ◼   ► I should be able to bring up a picture in picture size note window to do the similar

01:26:11 ◼   ► stuff.

01:26:11 ◼   ► I think the argument would be that if you bring in the note window and then you slide

01:26:14 ◼   ► up the keyboard, you don't really have any content visible other than your notes.

01:26:17 ◼   ► So you might as well just have it be in notes.

01:26:19 ◼   ► That would be their argument.

01:26:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:22 ◼   ► But then I can't, but like what I want to be able to do is the metadata thing, right?

01:26:26 ◼   ► Where like, you know, like I've got an email open and then I bring in a quick note type

01:26:30 ◼   ► of thing, write a note and then save it.

01:26:32 ◼   ► Right.

01:26:33 ◼   ► Like, yeah, I think I would want to do that.

01:26:35 ◼   ► And like that would be much quicker quick note, right?

01:26:39 ◼   ► Then it is on the iPad because like technically we're quick note on the iPad.

01:26:42 ◼   ► You could just have it open for ages and just write all your notes in it.

01:26:45 ◼   ► Right.

01:26:45 ◼   ► You could.

01:26:46 ◼   ► This is much more of a like, here's a little thing and a right.

01:26:49 ◼   ► And then I'm going to throw it away again.

01:26:51 ◼   ► I would like to see them do that.

01:26:54 ◼   ► Like really quick note on the iPhone.

01:26:56 ◼   ► It's just, it's like completely non-existent except the fact that there's now a folder

01:27:01 ◼   ► in the notes app.

01:27:02 ◼   ► You can see the notes from other devices.

01:27:04 ◼   ► So I like your point there, which is you don't really want, I mean, you could take notes,

01:27:08 ◼   ► but really the point of quick note on the iPhone is as a link collector for lack of

01:27:15 ◼   ► a better word, because you're on your iPhone and there's a webpage and you want to save

01:27:19 ◼   ► that webpage.

01:27:20 ◼   ► So you swipe out quick note and you add it to your note or pick what note you want it

01:27:24 ◼   ► to be in and add it.

01:27:26 ◼   ► And that's a, that's got value.

01:27:27 ◼   ► You know, you could do that with the share.

01:27:28 ◼   ► There are other ways to do exactly what you're describing, but I get what you're saying about

01:27:33 ◼   ► the quick access to add something like that.

01:27:36 ◼   ► This would be faster than doing the share extension, which I use all the time.

01:27:42 ◼   ► And I was excited by this and like, I was convinced that they said there was a way to

01:27:48 ◼   ► bring up a quick note on the iPhone from control center.

01:27:52 ◼   ► Like maybe I had a fever dream where that was a thing, but I'm convinced that they originally

01:27:57 ◼   ► said you could do that.

01:27:59 ◼   ► But it seems like, no.

01:28:01 ◼   ► Could we talk about iPadOS multitasking?

01:28:04 ◼   ► Yes.

01:28:05 ◼   ► I really like it as a new addition to the existing foundation.

01:28:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's the start of something where they're trying to make things more discoverable.

01:28:15 ◼   ► And I think that having that multitask controller everywhere, first off, it's a drag handle.

01:28:20 ◼   ► So it's like, literally they are one more step closer to having windows on iOS where

01:28:25 ◼   ► you can click on it or tap on it and move it.

01:28:27 ◼   ► Like they're already laying the groundwork there, but it's so much more discoverable

01:28:31 ◼   ► to be able to tap on it and say, put this full screen or put this on the side.

01:28:35 ◼   ► And then you're in the home screen where you can pick the second app.

01:28:38 ◼   ► And then the second app comes up on the other side or put this in slide over.

01:28:41 ◼   ► Like multitasking on the iPad is not for everybody, but it's for more people than it used to be

01:28:47 ◼   ► because they added this interface for it.

01:28:50 ◼   ► And it also feels to me very much like step one of a larger process.

01:28:56 ◼   ► This combined with that floating window concept, the multi window concept, the idea

01:29:01 ◼   ► of the shelf that has the multiple windows for any given app.

01:29:05 ◼   ► Like it feels like step one of a longer process to do more sophisticated windowing or tiling

01:29:12 ◼   ► or whatever on the iPad in the future.

01:29:15 ◼   ► But even just as discoverable multitasking, I think it's a good step.

01:29:19 ◼   ► I continue to want it to go further, especially with the keyboard.

01:29:23 ◼   ► For sure.

01:29:23 ◼   ► During beta one, I got a feature I wanted that they removed and it never came back,

01:29:28 ◼   ► which was like full keyboard control of replacing both left and right window.

01:29:33 ◼   ► They changed it with like, you can only replace the active window and you have to switch them

01:29:37 ◼   ► around like that was a frustration, but it is better.

01:29:41 ◼   ► And that ties into the globe key, which is a, I like it.

01:29:43 ◼   ► It's a cool addition, just more stuff.

01:29:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:46 ◼   ► Like I've got this keyboard attached to it all the time.

01:29:49 ◼   ► Just give me more control with it.

01:29:50 ◼   ► It doesn't harm anyone.

01:29:52 ◼   ► I'm still really confused about why the globe key doesn't let you control brightness and

01:29:57 ◼   ► media and volume because Apple's keyboard for the iPad doesn't ship with a function row.

01:30:05 ◼   ► And they've created a globe key, which is for global keyboard shortcuts.

01:30:10 ◼   ► That's the whole idea is they made a new key that doesn't conflict with any existing app

01:30:15 ◼   ► shortcuts.

01:30:15 ◼   ► And yet if you want to raise the brightness or change the volume or pause the playback,

01:30:23 ◼   ► there's no globe key shortcut for that.

01:30:25 ◼   ► You have to use the UI.

01:30:26 ◼   ► You have to take your hands off the keyboard.

01:30:28 ◼   ► I don't understand it, but like, I feel like that's inevitable now that they've created

01:30:33 ◼   ► that globe key and also the, between the globe key and the command key, you have the the

01:30:38 ◼   ► floating menu thing, which used to be like a quick reference card.

01:30:41 ◼   ► And now it's more like a Mac menu bar.

01:30:43 ◼   ► And that's another sign of where they're going.

01:30:45 ◼   ► I feel like this release, a lot of this stuff is like scraps where you're like, Oh yes,

01:30:50 ◼   ► yes.

01:30:50 ◼   ► I'm so hungry that I want this scrap of a feature that is not great, but it's so much better

01:30:56 ◼   ► than we had before.

01:30:57 ◼   ► I'm happy with it, but it feels like behind the scenes, Apple knows where it's going with

01:31:01 ◼   ► this now.

01:31:02 ◼   ► It's not all there yet at all, but it feels like it's part of a plan to go somewhere else.

01:31:09 ◼   ► And I hope that's true because I don't know why you would build all of these sorts of

01:31:12 ◼   ► things and not stitch them together down the road.

01:31:15 ◼   ► But, you know, I, but in other ways I'm so dissatisfied with their lack of movement on

01:31:19 ◼   ► this stuff that, you know, I don't want to get my hopes up.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Anything more on iOS 15?

01:31:24 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:31:24 ◼   ► I think we covered a lot.

01:31:25 ◼   ► You know, there's a lot there.

01:31:27 ◼   ► There's a lot more for something that, you know, maybe we got a little bored of it too,

01:31:33 ◼   ► right?

01:31:33 ◼   ► Because it comes out in June and I think there's some malaise over the summer, but like there's

01:31:37 ◼   ► a lot of good stuff in there.

01:31:38 ◼   ► And I think that people are going to like a lot of this stuff when they get to it.

01:31:41 ◼   ► And then they may also hate that, that photos feature that Myke hates.

01:31:44 ◼   ► Yeah, but it will pick up, as I said, like it picks up again.

01:31:47 ◼   ► I'm like super excited to try out all of the, uh, the apps.

01:31:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:52 ◼   ► All the apps make it make a big difference.

01:31:55 ◼   ► Because like I said, with focus mode, once you get that Slack app, which our discord says

01:32:00 ◼   ► is out now, came just came out that Slack update, you know, you get all your messaging

01:32:04 ◼   ► updates that support focus mode and you connect it all together.

01:32:07 ◼   ► And now you've got much more control over your messages from people across all sorts

01:32:12 ◼   ► of different platforms, which is really nice.

01:32:14 ◼   ► Cause then you just pick the contact and say, this person gets through and it doesn't matter

01:32:18 ◼   ► what app they use.

01:32:20 ◼   ► They get through and everybody else doesn't when I'm in this focus mode.

01:32:23 ◼   ► And that's a, that's a good thing.

01:32:25 ◼   ► So the apps are going to be key there.

01:32:27 ◼   ► I look forward to setting up Jason only mode.

01:32:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:30 ◼   ► I've got, you know, Myke, Myke mode is coming.

01:32:32 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by DoorDash.

01:32:38 ◼   ► Look, you're looking for Chinese tonight.

01:32:40 ◼   ► Maybe your flatmate wants pizza.

01:32:42 ◼   ► Somebody else, a craving for Oreo.

01:32:44 ◼   ► It doesn't matter because everything is available with DoorDash because DoorDash connects you

01:32:49 ◼   ► with the restaurants that you love right now and brings that food right to your door.

01:32:53 ◼   ► And Hey, you can also get your grocery essentials that you need to do a dash to get drinks,

01:32:58 ◼   ► snacks, other household items delivered to you in under an hour.

01:33:01 ◼   ► And ordering all this stuff is so easy.

01:33:03 ◼   ► You just open the door dash app.

01:33:05 ◼   ► You choose what you want from where you want it.

01:33:07 ◼   ► And your items will be left safely outside your door with the contact list delivery draw

01:33:11 ◼   ► off setting that they have.

01:33:12 ◼   ► They have over 300,000 partners spread across the U S Puerto Rico, Canada, Australia, and

01:33:18 ◼   ► you can also support your neighborhood go-tos as well.

01:33:21 ◼   ► You can choose from your favorite national restaurant chains as well.

01:33:24 ◼   ► So they've got everything there.

01:33:25 ◼   ► If you want to get Chipotle cheesecake factory, no matter what you want, go get it on DoorDash.

01:33:30 ◼   ► Jason, can you tell me something that you love about DoorDash?

01:33:33 ◼   ► I like the fact that when you're miserable and don't have any food in the house and need

01:33:37 ◼   ► to have dinner, um, that one thing you can do is go to the store, but another thing you

01:33:40 ◼   ► could do is just order it on DoorDash.

01:33:42 ◼   ► Uh, and they bring it to your house.

01:33:44 ◼   ► So that happened for my son's birthday, as I've mentioned before, I think that we, uh,

01:33:48 ◼   ► we, my, my, uh, my, oh, it was right before my son's birthday.

01:33:52 ◼   ► And I was thinking about his favorite burger place that we usually take him on his birthday.

01:33:56 ◼   ► And my wife was going out with friends over to a friend's house and, uh, he and I were

01:34:00 ◼   ► like, well, what are we going to do about dinner?

01:34:02 ◼   ► And I thought, oh, your favorite burger place.

01:34:04 ◼   ► And so DoorDash brought his favorite burger to our house.

01:34:08 ◼   ► And I also got one that I enjoyed, but it was his favorite.

01:34:12 ◼   ► And it was a fun little father-son a moment enabled by DoorDash.

01:34:15 ◼   ► So that was fun and easy.

01:34:17 ◼   ► And we didn't have to leave the house.

01:34:18 ◼   ► For a limited time.

01:34:19 ◼   ► Listen, as this show can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15

01:34:25 ◼   ► or more, just download the DoorDash app and enter the code upgrade 2021 in the U S or

01:34:30 ◼   ► upgrade a U S in Australia.

01:34:33 ◼   ► That's 25% off up to $10 in value and zero delivery fees on your first order.

01:34:38 ◼   ► Just download the DoorDash app from the app store.

01:34:40 ◼   ► Use the code upgrade 2021 for the U S upgrade a U S for Australia.

01:34:44 ◼   ► One last time upgrade 2021 for the U S upgrade a U S for Australia, and you will get yourself

01:34:50 ◼   ► 25% off your first order with DoorDash subject to change, terms apply.

01:34:54 ◼   ► Our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and Relay FM.

01:34:58 ◼   ► Let's do a couple of hashtag ask upgrade questions and we will finish out today's bumper episode.

01:35:05 ◼   ► First one comes from Mark.

01:35:06 ◼   ► Do you still, I thought this is interesting for iPhone

01:35:09 ◼   ► upgrade is do you still sync or back up your phone with a cable to your Mac?

01:35:14 ◼   ► I haven't done this in ages.

01:35:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:35:17 ◼   ► iCloud all the way for me now.

01:35:19 ◼   ► That's how I do it.

01:35:21 ◼   ► It tends to work pretty well.

01:35:22 ◼   ► I'll let you know next week how it goes.

01:35:25 ◼   ► I did see that they've, they've added some stuff in iOS 15 for that whole process.

01:35:33 ◼   ► So I will be like many of you I'm sure we'll, we'll be going through it.

01:35:36 ◼   ► So maybe we could talk about it last week.

01:35:38 ◼   ► We'd love to talk about upgrading.

01:35:39 ◼   ► I, I, yeah, we, one of my favorite episodes ever we did was talking about the upgrade experience,

01:35:43 ◼   ► which has gotten a lot better.

01:35:44 ◼   ► Not the, again, not the upgrade experience.

01:35:46 ◼   ► That is the experience of listening to the upgrade podcast, but the experience of upgrading

01:35:49 ◼   ► an Apple product.

01:35:50 ◼   ► Just want to be clear about that.

01:35:53 ◼   ► It is a lot better than it used to be when we did that episode.

01:35:55 ◼   ► They have, I'm not saying they listened to us.

01:35:57 ◼   ► I think it was more like we observed just how bad it was and they also observed just how

01:36:01 ◼   ► bad it was and it's better now and it is better in iOS 15.

01:36:04 ◼   ► There's a lot of really nice things about it.

01:36:07 ◼   ► In fact, now when you, when you wipe your device in iOS 15, it actually prompts you

01:36:11 ◼   ► and says, would you like me to back this up first?

01:36:13 ◼   ► And you can set it to transfer and do the transfer.

01:36:16 ◼   ► And like it, they're, they're really doing a much better job because the key is the day

01:36:21 ◼   ► you get your iPhone, your new iPhone should be a good day, not a frustrating day.

01:36:25 ◼   ► Right?

01:36:26 ◼   ► Like that is the key.

01:36:27 ◼   ► And it used to be super frustrating.

01:36:28 ◼   ► Dan Morin was telling me that people on the iPhone upgrade program, they now have like

01:36:36 ◼   ► a, they can get a transferable like eSIM or something like, so they're even making the,

01:36:40 ◼   ► the carrier SIM process easier as time goes on.

01:36:45 ◼   ► I like it.

01:36:46 ◼   ► So we'll see how it goes.

01:36:47 ◼   ► When there are new iPhones in our hands, I expect that there will probably be new iPhones

01:36:52 ◼   ► in both of our hands next week.

01:36:54 ◼   ► So we look forward to it.

01:36:55 ◼   ► I don't know if it's because I've done something or if Apple knows I bought a new phone, but

01:37:01 ◼   ► my settings right now say, get ready for your new phone.

01:37:04 ◼   ► Use iCloud to move your apps and data to your new phone.

01:37:07 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:37:09 ◼   ► Do they actually know?

01:37:10 ◼   ► It's like, cause I wasn't sure.

01:37:12 ◼   ► And I was like, Oh, hello.

01:37:14 ◼   ► I don't know if I've done something or if they're just like trying to prepare me, but

01:37:18 ◼   ► that's like a really interesting and weird thing to find in the setting.

01:37:21 ◼   ► Rajeev asks, do you think Apple will remove product numbers first from the iPhone or from

01:37:28 ◼   ► iOS?

01:37:33 ◼   ► I don't think Apple is going to be removing product numbers from the iPhone anytime soon,

01:37:36 ◼   ► but I think they'll do it before they do iOS.

01:37:38 ◼   ► Like I feel like iOS is always going to be numbered because you need a version number

01:37:42 ◼   ► and people care less about software version numbers than hardware version numbers.

01:37:45 ◼   ► Apple might do something weird where they, you know, do different numbers and different

01:37:49 ◼   ► names and reset the numbers at some point.

01:37:51 ◼   ► But, um, you know, they could eventually call it like iOS, blah, blah, blah.

01:37:57 ◼   ► Right.

01:37:57 ◼   ► Like they do with Mac OS.

01:37:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:37:59 ◼   ► But they'll, they'll still be a number there.

01:38:01 ◼   ► And I think they won't.

01:38:02 ◼   ► I think it's more likely that Mac OS just gets numbered at some point instead of having

01:38:05 ◼   ► a name.

01:38:05 ◼   ► So, but either way, um, I think this is one of those infinite timescale arguments that

01:38:10 ◼   ► may be a very long time, but I would say the iPhone first.

01:38:13 ◼   ► James Thompson's posted in the discord chat that he also sees the transfer or reset iPhone

01:38:21 ◼   ► thing in the settings.

01:38:22 ◼   ► It's just like in the top level of the settings.

01:38:24 ◼   ► And like, I'm happy that it's there, but it's also weird.

01:38:27 ◼   ► It's still weird to see stuff like that.

01:38:29 ◼   ► Like, hang on phone.

01:38:30 ◼   ► How do you know you're being replaced?

01:38:32 ◼   ► Are you going to start freaking out on me now?

01:38:33 ◼   ► Portphone.

01:38:34 ◼   ► The idea there.

01:38:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:38:35 ◼   ► I mean, the idea there is that you can just erase your phone, but it's also letting you,

01:38:39 ◼   ► uh, get ready to transfer.

01:38:41 ◼   ► It's it's, uh, it's nice.

01:38:42 ◼   ► It's clever.

01:38:44 ◼   ► And final question that comes from Kim.

01:38:46 ◼   ► Is the iPhone 13 mini's camera better than the iPhone 11 pro camera?

01:38:53 ◼   ► So I did a bit of research for this one, Jason, and I picked out a selection of things that

01:38:58 ◼   ► are different and it's kind of, it's going to be up to Kim to decide if they think this

01:39:03 ◼   ► is better because like, you know, the cameras in the eye of the beholder and all that, uh,

01:39:08 ◼   ► the mini has no telephoto lens.

01:39:10 ◼   ► So if a telephoto lens is important to you, 11 pro has the win on that.

01:39:16 ◼   ► The iPhone mini has Dolby vision HDR and will also have cinematic mode.

01:39:22 ◼   ► So if good quality video is something you want, then great.

01:39:28 ◼   ► And also has sensor shift, optical image stabilization that was new with the 13 and 13

01:39:35 ◼   ► mini this time around.

01:39:36 ◼   ► So I mean, the lenses may also be better, but I'm not really the person.

01:39:42 ◼   ► I don't know how to judge that kind of stuff.

01:39:44 ◼   ► You know, I think the low light performance is better from the iPhone 11 pro to the 13.

01:39:49 ◼   ► Um, so that would be in the mix there.

01:39:54 ◼   ► Um, and the image signal processor is probably better too.

01:39:58 ◼   ► Um, so there's, there's a bit there.

01:40:03 ◼   ► I think the, I think your screen display is a lot is brighter too, which is good for looking

01:40:09 ◼   ► back at those photos.

01:40:10 ◼   ► But in terms of the cameras, yeah, I think the big changes, it's probably a little bit

01:40:13 ◼   ► better, but not a lot.

01:40:15 ◼   ► And you'll do lose the telephoto lens, but you do gain some of these other modes, including

01:40:19 ◼   ► night mode time lapse, and you get the sensor shift, optical image stabilization and photographic

01:40:26 ◼   ► styles.

01:40:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:40:27 ◼   ► I feel like the answer to this is like, yes, with the asterisk of you do lose one dedicated

01:40:32 ◼   ► lens, but you're losing.

01:40:33 ◼   ► Yeah, you're losing your telephoto lens, but everything else is better.

01:40:37 ◼   ► So it's probably worth it.

01:40:39 ◼   ► Maybe if you'd like to send in a question for a future episode, then you can send out

01:40:45 ◼   ► a tweet with the hashtag and ask upgrade or use question Mark.

01:40:48 ◼   ► Ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord that gets, uh, you could also get access to

01:40:54 ◼   ► if you are an upgrade plus member, go to get upgrade plus.com.

01:40:58 ◼   ► And not only do you get all these wonderful benefits, you also get longer ad free episodes

01:41:03 ◼   ► of upgrade every single week and all time we publish an episode.

01:41:08 ◼   ► So if there is an extra episode, you got a longer one there too.

01:41:11 ◼   ► So go to get upgrade plus.com and you can sign up.

01:41:15 ◼   ► I'd like to thank everybody that has.

01:41:16 ◼   ► I'd also like to thank door dash and Squarespace and LinkedIn jobs for their support of this

01:41:21 ◼   ► week's episode.

01:41:22 ◼   ► And of course, thank you for listening.

01:41:24 ◼   ► If you want to go and read some wonderful coverage of everything that Apple's up to

01:41:28 ◼   ► at the moment, uh, he was go to six colors.com.

01:41:30 ◼   ► It's prime location, prime destination.

01:41:32 ◼   ► You can also find Jason online.

01:41:35 ◼   ► He's at Jason now, J S N E double L I am at I Myke I M Y K E and we'll be back next week.

01:41:42 ◼   ► Probably with a bunch of new hardware.

01:41:47 ◼   ► And iPhone review type episodes.

01:41:50 ◼   ► So that's going to be a big bumper one next one, uh, too.

01:41:52 ◼   ► So look out for that until then say goodbye.

01:41:55 ◼   ► Jason.

01:41:55 ◼   ► So now goodbye.

01:41:56 ◼   ► Bye.