00:00:17 ◼ ► From relay.fm, this is Upgrade, episode 370. This special episode is brought to you by Pingdom and
00:00:32 ◼ ► Band music! It was very good. Thank you to Chris Breen for the wonderful draft theme music.
00:00:53 ◼ ► We had a really good summer of fun. I think this might be, I'm just gonna say, output-wise, maybe our
00:00:59 ◼ ► best summer of fun. I think we did a really good job. I think we had a lot of fun things. We didn't
00:01:08 ◼ ► Could be argued maybe we've gone too far in other years. I don't think we go far enough, but hey,
00:01:18 ◼ ► Oh, and I've got a little bit of a listener question and answer that I want to provide in
00:01:24 ◼ ► here, which is people ask me, are you allowed to wear your new, fresh summer of fun merchandise?
00:01:30 ◼ ► That we sold this summer, when it's not summer? And the answer is yes, because the summer of fun
00:01:36 ◼ ► is always with you, and you keep it in your heart. And also, oftentimes it's summery in months that
00:01:42 ◼ ► are not technically summer, so that's fine too. So in the coldest days of winter, the darkest days
00:01:48 ◼ ► of winter, keep the fires burning with the summer of fun merchandise. It's fine. Although if it's
00:01:57 ◼ ► Yeah, that's probably a bad idea. So yeah, wear it prior to being nostalgic for the summer of fun,
00:02:03 ◼ ► or if you're not going to, take the shirt, fold it gently, put it in a box, you know, and put it
00:02:10 ◼ ► away somewhere safe. And then when the summer comes, you can have the whole ritual, like,
00:02:17 ◼ ► I definitely do that. I have stuff that I rotate in and out based on season. As meager as our
00:02:22 ◼ ► seasons here are, I still do that. So that's a good idea. Take your summery things and put them
00:02:28 ◼ ► away and know that they will return one day. Also, everybody who lives south of the equator,
00:02:45 ◼ ► So we have some breaking news for today's episode. This was supposed to be just the draft,
00:02:51 ◼ ► but we couldn't miss this. We've been focusing so much recently on App Store changes and courts.
00:02:56 ◼ ► This feels like out of nowhere to me. I didn't have a thought in my mind that there was about
00:03:02 ◼ ► to be another ruling in the Apple versus Epic case, but it's happened today on September 10th.
00:03:08 ◼ ► Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers has ruled against Epic in a bunch of ways. Like, Apple can keep
00:03:18 ◼ ► Epic has to pay Apple 30% of what they made with their surreptitious launch of their in-app
00:03:34 ◼ ► Epic actually won this. Well, I think they won the battle and lost the war, or maybe they lost,
00:03:45 ◼ ► but a precedent is set that other people will get a lot out of. Maybe not Epic, but everyone else.
00:03:51 ◼ ► I think they could do something later on to allow them. And what we're talking about is,
00:03:55 ◼ ► Apple is no longer allowed to, based on this judge's ruling, enforce anti-steering provisions
00:04:01 ◼ ► of App Store, on the App Store, including links to external payment mechanisms. Basically,
00:04:07 ◼ ► what this means is, the way that it can be read, developers will now be able to link to
00:04:14 ◼ ► external payment methods as much as they like. So what Epic did, by putting that little store
00:04:33 ◼ ► They did issue a statement that basically said, "Congratulations to us for winning the case."
00:04:38 ◼ ► Of course you did. So look, there's a lot that's going to go into this. Look, obviously,
00:04:43 ◼ ► we have the iPhone event coming up next week. We're probably going to dig into this in a couple
00:04:46 ◼ ► of weeks' time in more detail. But this could be absolutely massive. Effectively, what some people,
00:04:53 ◼ ► including yours truly, have been asking for, for a long time, especially during this Epic case,
00:04:59 ◼ ► is allow—Apple should allow companies to decide how they want to run their own businesses.
00:05:13 ◼ ► strategy seems to be sort of incrementalist, and like every little chip, they'll give something
00:05:18 ◼ ► away and they've got like a plan for how to do that, but they don't want to just kind of come
00:05:22 ◼ ► out and announce a system that's reformed because people could still say that's not good enough.
00:05:27 ◼ ► And so instead, they seem to be navigating this sort of like piece by piece. This feels,
00:05:31 ◼ ► especially combined with the law that is in process in Korea, this feels like Apple will end up
00:05:39 ◼ ► having—and there's like a 90-day window before this goes into effect, and they could appeal it,
00:05:45 ◼ ► and they could ask for it to be stayed longer. But the idea is, I think this will probably lead
00:05:49 ◼ ► to an official change in App Store policy that allows full-on links to third-party payment
00:06:03 ◼ ► Because, you know, because Apple got—let it get to the point where a judge is in charge of it,
00:06:17 ◼ ► interprets it as being within the judge's ruling, right? So it's complicated. But my guess is that
00:06:25 ◼ ► Apple has probably been planning behind the scenes for a scenario where they would need to allow
00:06:30 ◼ ► third-party purchases. And it goes through things like APIs, right? I mean, one that people keep
00:06:35 ◼ ► saying is a nightmare scenario is, does this bypass parental controls? So you can't stop your kid from
00:06:41 ◼ ► spending all this money on a linked credit card that they stole out of your wallet or something
00:06:47 ◼ ► like that. And ideally, no, right? Ideally, Apple would be allowed to enforce a rule that says,
00:06:54 ◼ ► you have to call the parental control API, get approval, and then pass the link along. But that's
00:06:59 ◼ ► kind of up to the judge. So we'll see what happens. But it does feel like Apple's blanket, you can't
00:07:07 ◼ ► link to external—first we had the one link, right? That was the first thing that happened.
00:07:10 ◼ ► And now it's the blanket kind of, you can't link to external payment sources from apps. That sounds
00:07:17 ◼ ► like that may be going away. They may be allowed to require in-app purchase via Apple to also be
00:07:28 ◼ ► - Like sign in with Apple kind of thing, right? That you can have them, but you have to show all
00:07:33 ◼ ► of them. - And if that's the case in your Amazon and you want to put links to Kindle books in there,
00:07:37 ◼ ► do you just add 30% to the in-app purchase link and then let people choose? I don't know what all the
00:07:44 ◼ ► ramifications of this are. And my guess is that it's going to be much more complicated than
00:07:48 ◼ ► everybody's saying now. But we needed to mention it because— - This is massive news. This is massive
00:07:53 ◼ ► news. - It is. What is—now, we can laugh about Apple's batting themselves on the back for winning
00:07:58 ◼ ► the case thing, but this will change the app store forever in some way. Maybe to be determined,
00:08:03 ◼ ► but in some way. But also, Apple's not wrong in this sense, which is Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers
00:08:10 ◼ ► specifically said that the market that Epic is fighting about is the digital mobile gaming
00:08:17 ◼ ► transaction market. Epic wanted to define the market as essentially iPhone transactions. And
00:08:23 ◼ ► that would have meant that Apple is a monopolist because Apple has the monopoly on iPhone
00:08:28 ◼ ► transactions. And the judge basically said, "No, that's not it. What this is is a digital gaming
00:08:35 ◼ ► market and Epic has maximized its revenue everywhere else. And so this is what's left to
00:08:41 ◼ ► it. So it's trying to maximize its revenue here," which is clearly what was going on. But the judge
00:08:46 ◼ ► basically said, "No, Apple's not a monopoly. Just being successful does not make you a monopoly.
00:08:52 ◼ ► But it's still going to have a knock-on effect on the app store and the app store rules."
00:08:58 ◼ ► And honestly, this goes into those who said Apple's strategy of fighting everything and
00:09:04 ◼ ► then allowing incremental change to happen only when they lose or settle or have a law passed
00:09:12 ◼ ► against them. You look at this and you say, "Well, maybe this is what they're expecting,
00:09:18 ◼ ► is that they're going to lose some little bits, but they're not going to lose their 30% and they're
00:09:22 ◼ ► not going to be called a monopolist, but they have to change the app store rules a little bit
00:09:26 ◼ ► in ways that will probably not be as liberal as people think they are when it all is put out
00:09:39 ◼ ► all the other threats didn't happen. This might be a best worst case scenario for them, right?
00:09:46 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, well, in fact, you could really argue that depending on how pragmatic the people
00:09:49 ◼ ► are inside Apple, they knew that there was that they were going to be up against it with some of
00:09:54 ◼ ► their app store rules. They were just hoping that it would only be those and it allows them to go
00:10:00 ◼ ► out and say, "All right, yeah, you're right. We've heard you and we're going to be more fair," while
00:10:05 ◼ ► they're internally saying, "Really? We only had to give you the one thing and not these other four
00:10:09 ◼ ► things? Whew, we dodged a bullet there," right? It can be seen as a loss for Apple because they
00:10:14 ◼ ► are going to have to do this opening up of app store rules, but it depends on did Apple really
00:10:22 ◼ ► think they were not going to have to change? I think internally they probably expected that they
00:10:25 ◼ ► were. They may look at this and realize that this is actually a better than expected ruling for them,
00:10:30 ◼ ► but either way, it's going to be a big deal. The way apps work is going to change and the way
00:10:44 ◼ ► and that should be interesting to watch because it's been pretty static for the last decade.
00:10:48 ◼ ► It's about time, in my opinion. Yeah, we're going to obviously keep our eye on this. We'll talk
00:10:52 ◼ ► about it in a couple of weeks once we have a lot more details than we have now, but this was
00:10:57 ◼ ► definitely worth mentioning. Something else worth mentioning, stjude.org/relay. Please go and donate.
00:11:04 ◼ ► I'm not going to go through the whole thing today. You'll hear about that again on Monday,
00:11:08 ◼ ► but I did want to just extend an absolutely monumental message. Thank you to every single
00:11:14 ◼ ► listener here who's donated. We have currently passed $250,000 raised in this year's campaign,
00:11:21 ◼ ► which has now put us over $1 million in the last three years. Tuesdays episode, not Monday's
00:11:27 ◼ ► episode. Next week. Thank you so, so much to everybody who has donated so far. We still have
00:11:35 ◼ ► a way to go. Continue to be getting your donations in for the Kids of St. Jude at stjude.org/relay.
00:11:41 ◼ ► And don't forget the Podcast-a-thon is coming up September 17th from 12 to 8 p.m. Eastern time
00:11:46 ◼ ► at twitch.tv/relayfm. Yeah, absolutely. Very excited about that. And then I will be there
00:11:52 ◼ ► for the Podcast-a-thon. Plus I've got game shows going on and it's going to be great. You're all
00:11:55 ◼ ► over the Podcast-a-thon this year, Jason Snow. Apparently I am. You sure are. But I wish I could
00:12:00 ◼ ► be there. I wish I could be there, but alas. So do I, my friend. So do I. Maybe next time. Maybe
00:12:05 ◼ ► next time. It is time for the draft and we must start every draft with the reading of the rules.
00:12:12 ◼ ► The reading of the rules. There have been some slight amendments to the rules this year, which
00:12:22 ◼ ► The draft will be split into three categories. We get four iPhone rounds, three watch rounds,
00:12:28 ◼ ► three other rounds. The winner of the previous draft gets to pick first, which is Jason.
00:12:35 ◼ ► For an item to count, it must either be clearly announced on stage or on a slide during the
00:12:40 ◼ ► presentation. And this must be verifiable from the keynote video itself. Cannot be guesswork,
00:12:45 ◼ ► cannot be expectation. It must be shown and clear. Yes, this is a slight adjustment because where we
00:12:53 ◼ ► got into trouble last time was making assumptions about and allowing picks to be made about things
00:12:59 ◼ ► that couldn't be proven or disproven based on the contents of the keynote, or in this case,
00:13:04 ◼ ► you know, for keynote read video presentation. And the rule here is it's gotta be on the screen.
00:13:10 ◼ ► If it's small print, if it's a thing that flashes on briefly, that's fine. We can go back and
00:13:17 ◼ ► adjudicate that and litigate that because everybody loves that as much as we want. But if it's a thing
00:13:26 ◼ ► that requires further research and pouring over PR and media websites and interviews and stuff like
00:13:33 ◼ ► that, that's not in the spirit of this draft, which is meant to be everything that's on screen
00:13:38 ◼ ► and everything that's mentioned. So, ideally, these will be, and as we go through our picks,
00:13:45 ◼ ► we'll decide this, but the items that we're choosing from should all be verifiable within
00:13:52 ◼ ► the keynote video. But if there comes something that's not verifiable, then it doesn't count
00:13:59 ◼ ► because it has to be, the proof must be in the video. - You know, and I think in the future,
00:14:05 ◼ ► we're also gonna try, I guess, this is probably most important for WWDC, just to try and not
00:14:11 ◼ ► create picks that can't be proven. - Yes. - It comes from our work in the beginning. - That's
00:14:16 ◼ ► on us. This is not sort of a after the fact we do this. It's sort of like the rule, the meta rule
00:14:21 ◼ ► about how we construct our list that we're picking from because items, an item I'll mention it now,
00:14:28 ◼ ► it was later on in the rules, but it's items are chosen from a predetermined list of choices,
00:14:33 ◼ ► which we have agreed, among other things, are not ridiculously obvious. And I'm just adding,
00:14:41 ◼ ► I'm amending those rules amendments are verifiable on screen and not ridiculously obvious. The idea
00:14:47 ◼ ► here is, right, we don't wanna have people coming in kind of saying, well, technically,
00:14:54 ◼ ► I've done the research and, right, like, if we were to differentiate this contest from other
00:14:59 ◼ ► contests that people might do, I think the guiding principle is, if it's about the event or the video
00:15:07 ◼ ► of the event, right, that is what our whole thing is about. Unlike, say, the Ricky's. - And the
00:15:12 ◼ ► reason we do that is 'cause we record, say, straight after. - Right after, right. - So it's
00:15:16 ◼ ► too difficult for us to try and go through the whole thing. So we just, we draw a line in the
00:15:22 ◼ ► sand for what's in the events. - It's about the show. And in fact, our picks can be about the
00:15:27 ◼ ► show. And that's a funny thing that we do that a lot of other people who do silly contests about
00:15:31 ◼ ► Apple events don't do, which is have stagecraft picks and things like that. And so it really is
00:15:36 ◼ ► about the show, not about facts that come out after the show is over. So just that will save us
00:15:41 ◼ ► a lot of heartache later on. - Steven Hackett will adjudicate in a case, a scoring stalemate
00:15:46 ◼ ► between the two of us. We prefer to score ourselves, but when we can't, we use outside help.
00:15:51 ◼ ► No partial points. The points awarded on the episode of final, second amendment, and are
00:15:57 ◼ ► finalized during the scoring segment. So once we scored, that's it. Later in the episode, we can't
00:16:03 ◼ ► throw in a bomb because that's not how it's gonna work. - Right, so you and I are gonna
00:16:07 ◼ ► shake, virtually shake hands when we go to the break after the scoring segment. And if I'm
00:16:14 ◼ ► concerned or you're concerned that something isn't scored properly, don't agree to go to the
00:16:20 ◼ ► segment, right? Like throw it out there to the audience to solve it, bring in Steven, whatever
00:16:24 ◼ ► we need to do. But once we agree that it's over, it's over. And this is, this is, you could call
00:16:30 ◼ ► this the Snell rule if you want to. - In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question,
00:16:37 ◼ ► and we pick that up front, and the loser at the previous draft gets to, gets their pick of the
00:16:43 ◼ ► tiebreaker. We'll do the tiebreaker now. We've done this over the last few drafts, and I think
00:16:49 ◼ ► it works really well. It is event runtime. So Jason, you get to pick a duration, and then I
00:16:55 ◼ ► will get to pick my over or under. - Yes, so Apple sent out, I've got a little tidbit here, Apple
00:17:01 ◼ ► sent out a calendar invite link with their event. - They always do. - Thing. And it's a two-hour slot.
00:17:09 ◼ ► Just wanna mention that. So Apple is reserving, as is customary, two hours for this event.
00:17:25 ◼ ► has not done lengthy runtime events. They've done a lot that are about an hour, and they've done a
00:17:32 ◼ ► few that are more like 90 minutes. So the question is, how do I set the runtime of this event
00:17:40 ◼ ► based on the track record? I'm just stalling now, aren't I? - Yeah, you're, 'cause you're just trying
00:17:47 ◼ ► to pick a number. You're just really struggling. I always do this too. Like, let me just talk
00:17:52 ◼ ► extemporaneously for a few moments while my brain is trying to compute runtimes that I think could
00:17:57 ◼ ► be beneficial to me. - Myke, the number is 72 minutes. - 72 minutes. So it's an hour and 12.
00:18:13 ◼ ► Did I do good? Did I pick a good one? - Yeah, you've picked real good. - I almost picked 69
00:18:19 ◼ ► minutes, and I thought, no, it's not worth it. I'm gonna do 72. - Under. - Under. I think that's
00:18:27 ◼ ► probably the right call. - Yep, you're gonna go under. - Again, I really kind of wanted to pick 60.
00:18:33 ◼ ► I wanted to pick, I was like 90 or 60. I'm like, well, 75. And I'm like, yeah, it's under that.
00:18:44 ◼ ► and it's meant to be a hard choice. So there it is. - I'll give you my thinking. - Okay. - There's
00:18:49 ◼ ► obviously gonna be more than one event this year in the fall. And I think for iPhone and Apple Watch,
00:18:55 ◼ ► which is probably what we're gonna get, I'll be surprised if they went that much over an hour
00:19:00 ◼ ► on a prerecorded video. - My thinking is, iPhone's really important. They do like to pack things
00:19:06 ◼ ► around the iPhone. We may get some things about like Apple TV. We'll see. We're gonna draft
00:19:15 ◼ ► and then is there other stuff in there? I wonder if it will end up being more like what they wanted
00:19:24 ◼ ► last year's event to be, perhaps, but pulled the iPhone out. At which point they may have enough
00:19:30 ◼ ► stuff stacked into it that it goes more like 90 minutes. But I think it's just as plausible that
00:19:37 ◼ ► they've decided the video event should be an hour, and that's what they always shoot for. So we'll
00:19:41 ◼ ► see if they break it here. But I feel like if there was ever an event for them to go more like 90
00:19:45 ◼ ► instead of 60, this might be it. We'll see. - Okay. - I like your chances on the tiebreaker, but I
00:19:52 ◼ ► was torn on this. - So the results in the draft so far this year, I won the April draft. Jason won
00:19:57 ◼ ► the WWDC draft. - Through great controversy. - I have noted this forever in our scoring list as
00:20:05 ◼ ► by adjudication, which I actually think I'm gonna add that whenever somebody does win by an
00:20:10 ◼ ► adjudicated rule, I'm gonna put that in. Just because I just think it's important to know,
00:20:14 ◼ ► it also notes it the same as if we won by tiebreaker. I will note that. - And if anybody is
00:20:25 ◼ ► upgrade draft, I think an asterisk is not too much to ask in a situation like that. - Speaking of Zach
00:20:31 ◼ ► Knox, Zach does great work in putting together some scorecards, which you can follow along with. So
00:20:36 ◼ ► there are upgrade.cards is the URL now, and of course there will be a link in the show notes to
00:20:50 ◼ ► for next week. So during the event. - Fun fun. - Should we take our first break and get into the first round?
00:20:55 ◼ ► - Yeah, I'm gonna psych myself up and be ready to go. - This episode is brought to you by our friends
00:21:03 ◼ ► OVA and SMILE. I want to talk to you a moment about TextExpander. TextExpander removes the repetition
00:21:10 ◼ ► from work, so you can focus on what matters most. Get rid of, say goodbye to repetitive text entry,
00:21:17 ◼ ► spelling errors, or trying to remember that right thing to say in the right moment. Because when you
00:21:21 ◼ ► use TextExpander, you can say the right thing in just a few keystrokes. It's better than copy and
00:21:26 ◼ ► paste, better than scripts, better than templates. TextExpander snippets allow you to maximize your
00:21:30 ◼ ► time by getting rid of repetitive things that you have to type, while still customizing and
00:21:34 ◼ ► personalizing your messages. TextExpander can be used in any platform, any app, anywhere you type,
00:21:40 ◼ ► so you can take back your time and increase your productivity. I use TextExpander religiously. I
00:21:45 ◼ ► love it. It's one of those things where if I, for some reason, quit the application, my computer
00:21:50 ◼ ► feels broken. Stuff just isn't working. We also use TextExpander for Teams quite extensively here
00:21:55 ◼ ► at Relay FM. I share a bunch of snippets with my sales manager, Carrie. Carrie is much better at
00:22:02 ◼ ► her job than I am at that job, for sure. She's a better salesperson than me. And so when we're
00:22:07 ◼ ► going out and trying to talk to new companies, Carrie has done a fantastic job at writing some
00:22:13 ◼ ► email templates that we can use. They're vastly better than mine, and we share them now via
00:22:17 ◼ ► TextExpander. So if I ever have to send an email to someone, I can take advantage of somebody's
00:22:21 ◼ ► work who's better than mine in my team. And that's one of the great things about TextExpander is you
00:22:25 ◼ ► can share all of that knowledge. It's really fantastic. As a listener of Upgrade, you can get
00:22:30 ◼ ► 20% off your first year. Just visit textexpander.com/podcast to learn more about TextExpander.
00:22:36 ◼ ► That's textexpander.com/podcast. Our thanks to TextExpander from Smile for their support of
00:22:41 ◼ ► Upgrade and Relay FM. All right, so we now enter our first set of picks. So the first four rounds
00:22:47 ◼ ► are iPhone picks. Jason, what is your first pick? My first pick is higher frame rate display
00:22:57 ◼ ► comes to iPhone Pro models. Myke will riot if this doesn't happen. I'll tell you that right now. I
00:23:05 ◼ ► have been asking for this from Apple for I think three years now. I know. ProMotion on an iPhone
00:23:13 ◼ ► Pro. Now one of the things I did inspired by your lengthy discussion on the Ricky's episode of
00:23:19 ◼ ► Connected this week is add some specificity to some of our picks where I felt like I noticed that
00:23:26 ◼ ► you could skate away a little bit. So I basically for a couple of these iPhone things just to make
00:23:30 ◼ ► it interesting, I basically changed it so that you have to commit to it either being all models or
00:23:38 ◼ ► just the Pro models rather than sort of saying, "An iPhone will get this feature." I wanted it to
00:23:44 ◼ ► be a little more risky than that. I like it. It's a little bit more challenge. So not all of the
00:23:49 ◼ ► features are like that, but like for some of these things where there's a real question about like,
00:23:52 ◼ ► is this going to be across the line or is it going to be just on the Pro models? And in this one,
00:24:00 ◼ ► the phones I would say. It should be, I agree. But I don't think they will start that way.
00:24:04 ◼ ► I think it will start with Pro and then over the years because like look, I think one of the reasons
00:24:09 ◼ ► it's been well reported at this point that Apple have not done this is they have not been able to
00:24:14 ◼ ► produce the kind of scale of these displays and display controllers that they would need at the
00:24:20 ◼ ► quality that they want is one of the things that's been said. So it would make a lot of sense for
00:24:25 ◼ ► them to start down this path with just one phone and they do this all the time. There are, I mean,
00:24:30 ◼ ► I don't want to spoil anything we'll come to later on, but there are rumors about like potentially
00:24:35 ◼ ► LIDAR or other technologies going down the line. We see this all the time with Apple products, right?
00:24:39 ◼ ► And you want to differentiate. You have a Pro model and a not Pro model. You want them to be
00:24:43 ◼ ► different in not just price, but in functionality to drive people up to the Pro model. And the
00:24:47 ◼ ► feature is called ProMotion, right? It's absolutely. Put it in the Pros. Yeah, exactly.
00:24:52 ◼ ► Which is so funny thinking how old that technology is now. I think WWDC was still in San Francisco,
00:24:59 ◼ ► I think maybe, or it might've been like the first San Jose year where they introduced ProMotion to
00:25:19 ◼ ► but I have a memory that I think is from that event of seeing and asking an Apple person about
00:25:32 ◼ ► June 2017, iPad Pro in 10.5 inch and 12.9 inch models introduced the world's most advanced
00:25:52 ◼ ► To get it on the iPhone, you use devices, you use phones that have got that high refresh rate.
00:26:03 ◼ ► So I really hope that they do it. They have to do it at some point. This really should be the year.
00:26:12 ◼ ► this may be the year that it aligns and I've decided to specifically predict that they're
00:26:27 ◼ ► I thought you would pass this by. That was part of my draft strategy. I think that this is the
00:26:43 ◼ ► I want Apple to do something a little bit more exciting with the names rather than just year
00:26:47 ◼ ► over year incrementing of one. And I know that 13 is an unlucky number, but I don't think they care
00:26:55 ◼ ► ultimately. They did iOS 13. iOS 13 was a disaster. It was really funny because it was the unlucky
00:27:03 ◼ ► iOS. For me, I was umm-ing and ahh-ing over it a little earlier in the year, but because they've
00:27:10 ◼ ► done iOS 13, they will do the iPhone 13. I don't really see any reason why this would be an issue
00:27:17 ◼ ► for them at this point. If they're just going to keep incrementing year over year, I think they
00:27:24 ◼ ► should pull a Samsung if they're going to keep doing it. Samsung went to 20 just because it
00:27:28 ◼ ► sounds more fun than just keep going up the teens, right? But like iPhone 17, like it just sounds
00:27:39 ◼ ► going to pull off that train yet. Pick number two. Yeah. You're already struggling with pick
00:27:47 ◼ ► number two? I am. I am. Well, I made it hard for myself with the iPhone. Is it iPhone Pro or is it
00:27:54 ◼ ► everywhere? Right, right, right, right. Yep. Oh boy. I am going to pick low-end iPhones
00:28:01 ◼ ► gain a LIDAR sensor. Everybody loves LIDAR. Look, this is one of those things where it's like
00:28:08 ◼ ► you just, they want to get it out there, right? Like it's AR and all that kind of stuff.
00:28:13 ◼ ► I mean, I'm kind of on board of you here. It was relatively high up in my list. I would have picked
00:28:19 ◼ ► it in my top four. It makes sense to me, right? Like it's not exciting for anyone really, like,
00:28:30 ◼ ► but it does improve AR. You know, I will say any AR experience that I've used on one of the LIDAR
00:28:37 ◼ ► products, it is better and Apple seems to really believe in it. So why have you picked it? Is it
00:28:45 ◼ ► all that stuff that I've said? Do you have another reason? Yeah, no, I think that's, is that it feels
00:28:50 ◼ ► like this is the trickling down because Apple cares about AR and they want it to be, you know,
00:28:56 ◼ ► they want to, they want to promote it more. How much, how expensive can the LIDAR sensor be?
00:29:00 ◼ ► They put it on a bunch of other products. Having it on all iPhones is probably helpful.
00:29:04 ◼ ► And, you know, yes, there are rumors to this effect, but also it feels like a fairly easy
00:29:08 ◼ ► thing to add to those iPhones in order to get the whole line to be able to do their cool
00:29:14 ◼ ► scanning features that they want people to do. And they will be bringing in other differentiators
00:29:19 ◼ ► on the pro line, so they won't need it for this one. One of those I reckon will be my next pick,
00:29:36 ◼ ► improved ultra wide lens, which is really needed. I like using my ultra wide lens. I do it a lot. So
00:29:44 ◼ ► for example, basically all of the pictures I've been taking of my Steven Hackett sticker desk,
00:29:53 ◼ ► But the quality of the image that comes from that sensor is so much worse than what we see
00:30:00 ◼ ► in the main sensor. Like for example, if you know, take from the same place, I take a picture of
00:30:05 ◼ ► something and zoom in and I can read the text on my notepad. But with the ultra wide, it's just
00:30:10 ◼ ► garbage. So I would love to see that sensor improve. I remember Apple, they do a good job
00:30:17 ◼ ► of trying to retain color and stuff between the three of them, which is nice, but just the overall
00:30:23 ◼ ► quality is worse. It gets really dark around the edges. So I really want to see this. That's what
00:30:30 ◼ ► I think it will be. But honestly, every year Apple does something, like whether it's promotion,
00:30:36 ◼ ► there are rumors of a pro raw video or something like that, like a new video codec or portrait
00:30:43 ◼ ► video. All of those would count. The idea that there's something that's based on the camera
00:30:47 ◼ ► that you know, or the software that goes around the camera that is only available on pro models.
00:30:52 ◼ ► I was thinking about this this morning about cameras on phones and I want to see if you agree
00:30:58 ◼ ► with me on this. The camera is the most important feature on a new smartphone. Yeah. Like that's
00:31:04 ◼ ► just, it's not a complex thesis here, but it was just something I was thinking about today. It's
00:31:09 ◼ ► the most important feature. Yeah. I think that's been the case for years. And I think that that's
00:31:12 ◼ ► what drives upgrades and what makes people happy buying a new phone is that the camera is so much
00:31:16 ◼ ► better because we rely on the camera so much of our smartphone in our lives, right? So I think it
00:31:23 ◼ ► is the most important feature and the best chance that a lot of companies have to innovate as well
00:31:30 ◼ ► is with a camera. And I think it's the thing that like, as you say, it's what can set companies
00:31:35 ◼ ► apart and it's the most important like direct customer thing because everything else I feel
00:31:40 ◼ ► like is software, you know, or like how software takes care, like it can work with other pieces of
00:31:47 ◼ ► hardware in the device. But I think it's really, it lies on the camera because you can have
00:31:52 ◼ ► something really cool in your phone, but if the camera sucks, no one's going to buy it.
00:31:55 ◼ ► Right. And I think it's, I don't think there is another feature in a phone that's like that,
00:32:00 ◼ ► you know, where it's like, oh, well, if this part isn't good, no one's going to buy your phone.
00:32:18 ◼ ► I don't want it. Camera's really important to me on the phone. And like, I'm going to take a
00:32:23 ◼ ► downgrade. Like, no, I'm not going to do that. So pick number three. Oh boy. Oh, it's so hard. Okay.
00:32:30 ◼ ► I'm going to do it. I am going to pick that there isn't always on display, but only on the pro.
00:32:34 ◼ ► Yeah. Come on. This is a passion pick for me. I think it is. I feel like I'm stealing some of
00:32:42 ◼ ► your passionate choices here and I'm jumping in my, my I've made this much harder on myself. Like
00:32:47 ◼ ► the only thing giving me pause with both of this and the high frame rate is, is it on the pro models
00:32:51 ◼ ► or all of them I'm believe it or not. I know this is going to sound weird. I'm actually a little
00:32:56 ◼ ► less certain of this one being only on pro models. First off, it may not happen. It's just been
00:33:01 ◼ ► rumored a little bit and it's kind of lightly sourced. But secondly, I also think it's possible
00:33:13 ◼ ► I'm gonna go in on the idea that Apple has decided that this really nice screen technology that
00:33:19 ◼ ► enables, they may even give it a name, right? They always have a name for all their screens.
00:33:24 ◼ ► I can't even tell them apart anymore. They've got super retina and mini HDR and XDR and whatever
00:33:30 ◼ ► else. They may give this a name, the pro models display that includes both high frame rate and
00:33:38 ◼ ► an always on mode. That is, um, you know, I, I, at the very least like a clock and maybe an indication
00:33:46 ◼ ► of your notifications or maybe it will work with focus mode to allow certain notifications through
00:33:51 ◼ ► and others not or, and then maybe, although this sounds more like something that will come next
00:33:55 ◼ ► year, there is a third party story where third parties can place little info widgets that are
00:34:00 ◼ ► like watch complications on there. I think it's more likely that what third parties will be
00:34:04 ◼ ► allowed to do is have a certain notification priority that gets rolled up in certain modes
00:34:11 ◼ ► into displaying them on the face. Oh my word. Yeah. That might be the whole point behind the
00:34:15 ◼ ► time sensitive notification, right? If it's something like that and then focus mode could
00:34:19 ◼ ► change how it, you know, where it sends things and including sending it to the loss. That's the
00:34:25 ◼ ► whole point of focus and time sensitive this year. So just, just in case, like give a bit of a
00:34:30 ◼ ► refresher, cause we talk about high frame rate, talk about high frame rate. Typically what we're
00:34:34 ◼ ► talking about is like 120 Hertz, which is, you know, but what it also means is, is variable.
00:34:41 ◼ ► That's, that's one of the key parts of this technology. Apple has it in promotion. So the
00:34:45 ◼ ► reason you could have an always on display is you could bring that all the way down to one Hertz,
00:34:54 ◼ ► or whatever. That's right. That's how you, that's how you save power is that you crank it down to
00:35:00 ◼ ► a very low frame rate when it's not being used to animate anything. And you can actually,
00:35:06 ◼ ► iPads do this. And it's one of the reasons that the iPad display is as efficient as it is,
00:35:14 ◼ ► staring at your apps, deciding which app to launch that home screen has been cranked down to no frame
00:35:20 ◼ ► rate, basically. If you're watching like a video that's in 30 frames or 60 frames a second, it's
00:35:24 ◼ ► just operating at that. It's not doing exactly like 120. If you watch a movie that's 24 frames a
00:35:30 ◼ ► second, the display ratchets down to 24 frames a second. That's what it's doing there. Um, so yeah,
00:35:36 ◼ ► it's all about that kind of level of control. And if they can put that in a display, I would love it
00:35:42 ◼ ► in all the phones as somebody who really wants to buy a mini. I will tell you, if this beautiful
00:35:47 ◼ ► display is in only pro phones, I will be really torn about buying an iPhone pro instead of a mini.
00:35:55 ◼ ► Oh, Jason, it'd be a mistake. I genuinely think it would be a mistake. Like if you are a person
00:36:04 ◼ ► I'm not on the fence. I'm over the fence. I'm over the fence. I'm in mini land, right? I'm in
00:36:08 ◼ ► mini land. I would have to hop the fence. You would be back on the fence, right? That's what
00:36:12 ◼ ► you're saying. Like if they, like what was cool. And I think you would, I think you were better.
00:36:17 ◼ ► And also you've got to get off the mini train because this is your last one anyway. So you
00:36:21 ◼ ► may as well get off it before they force you off it. Yeah, but I love it so much. Yeah. Oh,
00:36:26 ◼ ► we'll see. Love it as much as you like. Not enough people have. All right. I'm going for one. I've
00:36:31 ◼ ► been wanting this for a while. I think it's going to happen. The notch will be called out as being
00:36:35 ◼ ► smaller on at least one model of iPhone. All right. Now please note the way that this is
00:36:41 ◼ ► worded is very particularly in spirit of our new rules. It's not that the notch is smaller. This is
00:36:46 ◼ ► if we had picked the notch is smaller on at least one model, then after the fact, people are like,
00:36:55 ◼ ► Underscore has proven this for me. This has already happened. The iPhone mini has a slightly
00:36:59 ◼ ► smaller notch, right? But it's not what we're talking about. So the point here is notch called
00:37:04 ◼ ► out as being smaller. That's somebody on stage saying, hey, we made the notch smaller. So there's
00:37:09 ◼ ► more room for content. They need to call it out. It could be on a slide, right? It could say,
00:37:19 ◼ ► not just have it be part of the facts that come out afterward. Let me ask you a question.
00:37:24 ◼ ► Yeah. Could we, would this count if they said they had increased the amount of screen space?
00:37:30 ◼ ► I would say if the implication there is that by reducing the notch, they've increased the
00:37:34 ◼ ► amount of screen space. I would probably give that to you. Right. You know, uh, but it would
00:37:38 ◼ ► have to be clear that it's not about the edges or something like that, that they're, you know,
00:37:46 ◼ ► that would work for me, but they really need to actually promote it. It would be wild to me
00:37:50 ◼ ► if they did decrease it and didn't mention it. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, look,
00:37:54 ◼ ► we, nobody wants this thing to be there. If you've made it smaller, great news. Right. You know what
00:38:01 ◼ ► I mean? Like, uh, cause I think that we're probably about to see the next generation of face ID
00:38:06 ◼ ► technology, which might not be a lot, a lot of new stuff. Maybe it's quicker or whatever,
00:38:11 ◼ ► but I think in doing that, they can say, and we've been able to package this in a smaller,
00:38:14 ◼ ► you know, like that kind of thing. Yeah. So we have a question in the relay FM members discord
00:38:18 ◼ ► about, you know, what do you mean by that? Absolute size ratio to screen. What does it mean? And the
00:38:22 ◼ ► answer is it doesn't matter because what we're really talking about here is messaging, right?
00:38:25 ◼ ► Which I think is in the truest spirit of the upgrade draft, which is do they extol the virtues
00:38:30 ◼ ► of a new phone as having more room for content and less sensor space, right? Like do they choose to
00:38:39 ◼ ► call that out as a design feature of the new models if they do might gets the point here
00:38:46 ◼ ► because that's the point of it is they're using this change and promoting it. If it's silent,
00:38:53 ◼ ► it's a stealth change. They're not going to talk about it. Then Myke doesn't get the point because
00:38:57 ◼ ► that's what we're really picking here is not, we're not going to get out our calipers and measure
00:39:01 ◼ ► this. We really want to know like, is Apple going to promote the shrinking of the notch as a user
00:39:06 ◼ ► benefit in some way? Or as you pointed out, I think quite rightly, Myke, you are thinking like
00:39:11 ◼ ► Apple there thinking like an Apple marketing executive, really we're not shrinking the notch
00:39:15 ◼ ► so much as expanding the content area. Okay. Yeah. Got it. Got it. That Epic Apple one was a big win
00:39:23 ◼ ► too. I hear massive win huge win. We won bigly today. Oh man. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Oh dear.
00:39:33 ◼ ► You can't win if you don't lose. All right. So final pick in the iPhone round. Oh my God.
00:39:43 ◼ ► This is bad. So I have enough of five things that I would, that I think might happen here.
00:39:50 ◼ ► Uh huh. So we have this, we have a large list. Uh, I whittle it down to the things that I think
00:39:56 ◼ ► are likely and personally rank them. And so this is a, this is a tricky one. This is a tricky one.
00:40:02 ◼ ► Yeah. I'm going to go on brand with pricing and I'm going to say the new phones match the iPhone
00:40:12 ◼ ► 12 price points. This was mine. This was my fourth pick. And again, I'm not saying like all the skews
00:40:18 ◼ ► with all the things are going to be exactly the same, but what I'm saying is the base price
00:40:23 ◼ ► of the new models will be the base price of the existing models that they are not going to lower
00:40:29 ◼ ► it down or ratchet it up. So I'm going to add to this because remember we had some, uh, finagling
00:40:36 ◼ ► last time. So we will go with the prices they put on stage because look, you can start getting into
00:40:43 ◼ ► the weeds like it had done before. Like, Oh yeah, but this does mean with a carry AT&T promo and
00:40:53 ◼ ► Right. And that's going to match what they're implying on those slides. Right. So if they,
00:40:57 ◼ ► if they, if they put it up there and say like, this is with the AT&T, they won't do this discount.
00:41:02 ◼ ► Then we would say, well, is that the same price as it was? But I think in the end they have a
00:41:06 ◼ ► marketing price and the marketing price is probably the, uh, the base all in price. And
00:41:12 ◼ ► that's what we're talking about here is basically did they raise, did they use the iPhone 13 as an
00:41:16 ◼ ► opportunity to raise the price of the pro phones? They could, they totally could. I almost chose
00:41:22 ◼ ► some phones cost more. Allow me to stop you right there so we can have this conversation in full.
00:41:32 ◼ ► Oh, right. We're just going to go head to head on price. It's a very Apple thing to do, right? This
00:41:37 ◼ ► is the, this is the Snell's law, right? More than enough reasons this year because technology is
00:41:46 ◼ ► Because there are chip shortages. So I, you know, we can almost guarantee that if Apple are able to
00:41:51 ◼ ► make this thing at scale, it's probably going to be a little bit more expensive for them. They've
00:41:55 ◼ ► had to bid higher than some of their competitors to make this work. I could imagine them saying
00:42:02 ◼ ► the, the pro phone is a little bit more expensive this year because of the screen. I could see.
00:42:05 ◼ ► I absolutely could. I mean, like I said, I was torn between these two. I like that we're going head to
00:42:09 ◼ ► head on this. I'm being, I feel like I'm being optimistic by the way. I also put some phones
00:42:14 ◼ ► cost less as a pick, but we're, we're in. So I am the voice of optimism that Apple is not going to
00:42:23 ◼ ► use a new product cycle as an opportunity to slowly ratchet up. My feeling is slowly ratchet up the
00:42:29 ◼ ► pro phone price, because now that they've got the non-pro phones in their lineup, that gives them
00:42:34 ◼ ► more latitude without people. I mean, some people are going to scream bloody murder about any Apple
00:42:38 ◼ ► price increase, but like Apple's going to always be able to say, but look, you can get an iPhone,
00:42:43 ◼ ► iPhone 13 for a reasonable price. You don't need to buy an iPhone pro. And that gives them some
00:42:49 ◼ ► defense, uh, while they're raising those prices. So I think you're perfectly reasonable pick to
00:42:55 ◼ ► make. And I almost made it myself. In my list, I had these as my fourth and fifth. So like I was
00:43:01 ◼ ► going with one of these. Um, I mean, if I was going to put my money on it, like if we were
00:43:07 ◼ ► having a bet, I would say that they will match the price points, but I wouldn't make that an
00:43:12 ◼ ► expensive bet because I could see this as a year where they would maybe tweak a bit. And do you
00:43:18 ◼ ► know what, Jason, honestly, I expect it will be, but they might just do some, some fancy, uh, uh,
00:43:24 ◼ ► magic with the numbers, but, but I would expect that to be like, if you're buying outright,
00:43:35 ◼ ► I like that. We're going to have to watch that closely. Me too. That'd be fun. All right. So
00:43:38 ◼ ► that's the iPhone picks down. So that's the first four rounds. So we will take a break here and
00:43:43 ◼ ► thank Pingdom from SolarWinds for the support of this episode. Today's internet users, they expect
00:43:48 ◼ ► a fast web experience, no matter how targeted your marketing content or how sleek your website,
00:43:53 ◼ ► they're going to bounce if the page is loading too slowly or not at all. So with real user monitoring
00:43:57 ◼ ► from Pingdom, you can discover how website performance affects your visitors experience.
00:44:02 ◼ ► So you can take action before your business is impacted. All for as low as $10 a month,
00:44:08 ◼ ► whether your visitors are dispersed around the world or across different browsers, devices,
00:44:12 ◼ ► or platforms, Pingdom will help you identify bottlenecks, troubleshoot performance, and make
00:44:16 ◼ ► informed optimizations. Real user monitoring is an event-based solution. So it's built for
00:44:21 ◼ ► scalability. This means you can monitor millions of page views, not just sample data, actual real
00:44:27 ◼ ► information at an affordable price. You can get live site performance visibility today with
00:44:38 ◼ ► a 30 day free trial with no credit card required. Then when you're ready to buy, use the code
00:44:42 ◼ ► upgrade at checkout and you get an awesome 30% off your first invoice. Our thanks to Pingdom from
00:44:47 ◼ ► SolarWinds for the support of this show and Relay FM. And a shout out to Pingdom. They told me my
00:44:53 ◼ ► server was dying before we knew about it. And that was actually very helpful. So real world use.
00:45:01 ◼ ► It's genuinely super good. Like we use it here at Relay FM too. Like I do actually genuinely love
00:45:07 ◼ ► that we have it in our Slack. And then Steven also has it send text messages to him. Like very,
00:45:12 ◼ ► very useful tool. So let's move to watch picks. There was a rumor today or a report from Ming-Chi
00:45:19 ◼ ► Kuo that it looks like Apple has resolved the issues that they may have been having with getting
00:45:24 ◼ ► the Apple Watch put together in time. So it's looking very likely that the Apple Watch will
00:45:30 ◼ ► make its way into this event to be shipped in mid September. So why? Yes. And in Ming-Chi Kuo,
00:45:42 ◼ ► All right. Okay. Go bold on that. I think. Ming-Chi Kuo I trust. Because they might not say it.
00:45:52 ◼ ► They might not. They might just say orders on this date. They might. And then we're not going to know.
00:45:59 ◼ ► So I'm going with what I think is a much safer pick. Apple Watch design is updated with flat
00:46:03 ◼ ► sides. Okay. That is a safe pick. Because it's time for a change. It's time for a new design.
00:46:09 ◼ ► And Apple believes that flat sides are right for all of their products. Myke Hurley agrees with
00:46:14 ◼ ► them. I love the way that Apple has been attacking industrial design over the last few years. I'm
00:46:19 ◼ ► sitting in front of my beautiful iMac, which is very quickly, we're going off on a tangent now,
00:46:27 ◼ ► taking that crown as maybe my favorite Mac ever. Your yellow. It is an absolute trooper
00:46:35 ◼ ► in the tasks that I use. I think it's my most powerful machine or like the one that I feel
00:46:41 ◼ ► is the most powerful because it handles all of my editing way smoother than my Mac Pro ever did.
00:46:47 ◼ ► And it's yellow and I love it. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I have the touch ID keyboard. I
00:46:54 ◼ ► have a yellow trackpad. I love this thing. It's good stuff. My companion this summer for
00:47:01 ◼ ► macOS Monterey has been my orange Apple loaner that I allowed them to, I asked them to extend
00:47:07 ◼ ► so that I could use it with Monterey. And so it's been running macOS Monterey all summer.
00:47:11 ◼ ► And yeah. How would you feel about an Apple Watch design update like this that's being proposed?
00:47:18 ◼ ► I'm looking forward to it. I think it is nicer than the, like I've gotten really used to the
00:47:26 ◼ ► Apple Watch and its design, but there is some aspect of it that it's like the kind of bubbly
00:47:32 ◼ ► sides that a more flat sided design like on the all these other Apple products that have come out
00:47:41 ◼ ► lately. I think that would feel and look nice and more kind of with the times. I think I was
00:47:48 ◼ ► thinking about that. You know that Bluetooth keyboard from Matthias that I like, but it's like
00:47:55 ◼ ► enormous bubbly plastic and it's very old Apple design. It's the Matthias extended pro or something.
00:48:05 ◼ ► design is very Apple from the late 90s or early 2000s. And Apple Watch, not quite that bubbly,
00:48:12 ◼ ► but it is a little bit like it feels, again, it's nice and I like it. But if we're just talking
00:48:19 ◼ ► about sort of fashion and modernity, I think something that feels more like what they've got
00:48:29 ◼ ► As a begrudging Apple Watch wearer at the moment, as I have been for the last few months,
00:48:33 ◼ ► because look, I don't like the design, but oh boy, do I love the health features. It's making a big
00:48:40 ◼ ► impact on my life right now. So I'm into it. So I'm going to keep wearing it. I want it to look
00:48:46 ◼ ► different. I want it to look more modern. To me now it looks old because it is old. So a new design,
00:48:52 ◼ ► larger face, cooler sides. I hope they have some cool materials that I'm into, but just on paper,
00:49:06 ◼ ► because I want there to be changes for me, stuff that I want from a device that I'm a little bit
00:49:20 ◼ ► I would use this for another year and I'd be really happy. I freaking love this iPhone.
00:49:23 ◼ ► It's so good and it looks so fantastic, the gold. But my Apple Watch, I really want an update for.
00:49:30 ◼ ► Yeah, in terms of personal purchase, I will probably buy an iPhone this fall, but I think
00:49:42 ◼ ► Yeah. And I am an Apple Watch user and use it all the time and use it a lot. And so for me,
00:49:50 ◼ ► I'm definitely going to be watching that closely and hoping that it's going to be what I want.
00:50:00 ◼ ► I will bet that if they do this design, if they update the design really significantly,
00:50:06 ◼ ► this will be one of the largest Apple Watch quarters of all time. Because I think you'll
00:50:11 ◼ ► get a lot of people that are on the older watches see it and be like, "Yeah, I want a new one."
00:50:30 ◼ ► to the Apple Watch than the iPhone because we wear this thing. Design is important. So I actually do
00:50:37 ◼ ► think two things. One is going to be huge. And then going forward, I expect there to be a new
00:50:41 ◼ ► design every few years like the iPhone. They've held on to this design for too long. Why they've
00:50:45 ◼ ► been not like working out the way the technology works. I think it's time to see design change.
00:50:55 ◼ ► 2015 to now, six years, that's too long. For one design, it's too long. Pick number two, Jason.
00:51:00 ◼ ► All right. I am going to go with, speaking of changing the watch, I'm going to go with the
00:51:10 ◼ ► to be a bigger screen on these Apple Watches. They're just going to be a little bit bigger.
00:51:14 ◼ ► And that will enable more content to be placed on the faces of the screen. And they'll talk about
00:51:26 ◼ ► same physical size, which it's very likely to, and is actually rumored to be getting like a
00:51:31 ◼ ► millimeter bigger. If you flatten the edges, if you don't make the screen bigger, you just have
00:51:36 ◼ ► huge bezels, right? Like imagine if you just like you extend now, make it a box from where you get
00:51:43 ◼ ► those curved edges. The bezels would be massive. So like kind of like series three again, right?
00:51:55 ◼ ► jury's out on how people will feel about a larger screen on the watch. But as long as they don't
00:52:07 ◼ ► I would like to add my second picket ties in with this one a little bit, which is new watch faces
00:52:11 ◼ ► added. This was also reported by Mark Gurman, but it's in line with what Apple did last time,
00:52:17 ◼ ► you know, when they went from three to four, and they added infograph and all that kind of stuff.
00:52:22 ◼ ► If you've got a larger screen, you can do new things with it. And so that should mean new
00:52:27 ◼ ► watch faces that can take advantage of that. Yeah, I think that makes sense. There have been
00:52:37 ◼ ► frustratingly introduce some new watch faces while not updating old watch faces. Oh, for sure, Jason,
00:52:44 ◼ ► because why, why break of a pattern? They have faces that are unchanged from the previous screen
00:52:52 ◼ ► size change, which drives me up a wall, but that's just what it is. That seems to be what they're
00:52:57 ◼ ► doing for a company that refuses to let third parties design watch faces. Apple's bandwidth
00:53:10 ◼ ► and the argument I get is, well, yeah, but we need some watch faces on the smaller model that
00:53:14 ◼ ► we're still selling that is old. Like, okay, it doesn't preclude you from doing another version
00:53:20 ◼ ► of it that takes advantage of the size on the new watch. But they haven't done that. It's really
00:53:26 ◼ ► disappointing. But yes, I agree. They'll throw a couple new watch faces in that take advantage of
00:53:30 ◼ ► the new size and add bigger complications or more complications or something like that. And they'll
00:53:35 ◼ ► run alongside the ones that don't and are just disappointing. What's your third and final pick
00:53:41 ◼ ► in the watch category? I'm putting my money down on the power of investing in watch bands to say
00:53:48 ◼ ► that they will change the design of this watch, but they will not break band compatibility because
00:53:54 ◼ ► that would make lots and lots of people sad and more important to Apple, make them more reluctant
00:54:01 ◼ ► to upgrade, which is what matters to Apple. Or if they do upgrade, reluctant to buy new watch bands.
00:54:09 ◼ ► Or, and also depress the watch band economy. So I feel like Apple is going to do everything it
00:54:20 ◼ ► they would ever have to. At this point, I think they need to consider that shape to be given in
00:54:27 ◼ ► anything they do. They can design around that as much as they want. You know, like there are a lot,
00:54:32 ◼ ► even if the watch gets like thinner or smaller, you can still, they could have a protrusion that
00:54:38 ◼ ► it goes into, you know, like this is many lugs of watches. They're not like connected to the face.
00:54:44 ◼ ► They have like a part that it attaches to. Right. I don't really see for the long future why they
00:54:52 ◼ ► would need to change the way the watches are. You and I have speculated before about the idea
00:54:58 ◼ ► that Apple may be doing, you know, variations on the watch in the future, like a sport watch,
00:55:03 ◼ ► which sounds like is more likely to happen next year than this year, but like, or even could have
00:55:08 ◼ ► a midstream, who knows, but the idea that they might do a ruggedized model of watch for extreme
00:55:15 ◼ ► sports and things like that, that's essentially the same watch, but in a different case.
00:55:21 ◼ ► And they might do some of that and have those things be totally different, but I feel like
00:55:30 ◼ ► You know what I will say before we lock all this in, Zach has made a very good point in the
00:55:34 ◼ ► discord that it is unlikely Apple will say that your old bands will work. Are you still
00:55:38 ◼ ► comfortable with that? This might be a tricky one for us to litigate. Because I don't think
00:55:44 ◼ ► they would say a word about that. So what you're saying is if they break compatibility,
00:55:56 ◼ ► conversation about it. It is. I don't know if this is a pick you should keep if I'm being honest with
00:56:01 ◼ ► you. Because I think that there is no way you will be able to confirm that. Because I think the
00:56:07 ◼ ► likelihood of, oh, we've got a new pick, we're getting a new pick. This one works for me. Do
00:56:12 ◼ ► you want to read what you've written in? Apple announces no changes in band compatibility.
00:56:27 ◼ ► It's still the same result, but allows us to more accurately score it. Which is basically that they
00:56:36 ◼ ► don't say anything. And that means it's fine. Yeah. In theory. I mean, it still could be that
00:56:42 ◼ ► they change it. They just don't say it. But it doesn't matter because that's still the pick.
00:56:53 ◼ ► larger screen, new design, and just where Apple is right now, no new health sensors added to this
00:56:59 ◼ ► watch. We had that report that we were... I think we spoke about it. We might have touched on it.
00:57:04 ◼ ► Or it may have been unconnected. I don't remember. That they're working on a bunch of stuff,
00:57:11 ◼ ► but it's a couple of years away. Like blood pressure, diabetes, temperature, that kind of
00:57:17 ◼ ► stuff. But they don't have anything for this one. I don't think they would need to do it. I think it
00:57:22 ◼ ► would be a waste, honestly, for them to put another sensor in this one. Because I think that the
00:57:27 ◼ ► design will do more than enough for them. And they can just keep working on a new health sensor.
00:57:36 ◼ ► Right. There are other things you can do. The design, the display, the size, the materials.
00:57:42 ◼ ► There are so many other things that they can do that they don't need to force a sensor in there
00:57:48 ◼ ► that is not necessarily... When you add a sensor, it actually has to have a purpose. I think that's
00:57:55 ◼ ► actually the argument against that oxygen sensor is that it seems like maybe it's not as great a
00:58:00 ◼ ► thing as they made it out to be. And they're stuck with it now. And if they're going to do
00:58:07 ◼ ► temperature sensor, blood pressure sensor, anything like that, they're going to need...
00:58:18 ◼ ► Yeah. I'm sure people are sick of me at this point talking about it. But I was so annoyed
00:58:22 ◼ ► at the presentation and continue to be about the blood oxygen sensor. It's like, "We have this now.
00:58:33 ◼ ► And it was... There was a story they could have told, but they were worried to tell it,
00:58:38 ◼ ► which made sense of like, "This would actually be useful if you got COVID." But they weren't
00:58:45 ◼ ► confident in telling that story, which I understand and agree with. And probably it was the
00:58:50 ◼ ► wrong time to be telling that story even if it was the point. Don't tell people, "Hey, our new product
00:58:55 ◼ ► is good for this pandemic that we're all dealing with." Because again, if you cost your mind back,
00:59:00 ◼ ► September of 2020 was actually very different to where we are now. I know that it's raging,
00:59:06 ◼ ► but it was different. The mood in the world was different. So you wouldn't have wanted to talk
00:59:11 ◼ ► about it, but it just meant it's like this person that's walking up a mountain is helpful for them.
00:59:26 ◼ ► So now we get into other. Other basically could include anything. We have all types of hardware,
00:59:37 ◼ ► Oh, I am going to go with a little bit of a stagecraft pick and say we are going to return
00:59:57 ◼ ► There's going to be a new chip. It's going to be A15 Bionic probably. They're going to get probably
01:00:04 ◼ ► Johnny Shroogee out there to talk about how great it is and cores and flops and all the things,
01:00:11 ◼ ► all the chip things. And they seem to really get excited now about using this idea that there's the
01:00:20 ◼ ► secret chip lab where they've got a bunch of Mac Pros and they're working on chips and then they
01:00:27 ◼ ► It's a visually appealing environment for what is a pretty dry part of the presentation,
01:00:35 ◼ ► right? Which is like we're going to give you some charts that have some big numbers on them.
01:00:41 ◼ ► So for people that don't care, hey, just take a look, feast your eyes on this environment.
01:00:51 ◼ ► like Johnny Shroogee standing on a stage somewhere out in a field or something like that,
01:00:55 ◼ ► I don't get this because I think that this is a stagecraft pick that they are going to go back to
01:01:00 ◼ ► the idea of the chip lab. Now it may be not exactly the same set and it may not be like, it may be not
01:01:06 ◼ ► underground but like hidden in the clouds. I don't know, but it'll be like the chip lab where Johnny
01:01:15 ◼ ► And of course, Jason Snow and Myke Hurley will really be paying attention to this segment because
01:01:19 ◼ ► this is where we'll find out the first stats for the M1X probably, right? This is the first
01:01:35 ◼ ► Oh yes. Sure. This is, I don't know about the M1X. I think the M1X is going to be based on the A14.
01:01:47 ◼ ► Which we'll get next year. But yes, this is the unveiling of the next generation of Apple's chip
01:01:52 ◼ ► design, which will feed into the Macintosh and the iPad as well, right? So it's important for that.
01:02:17 ◼ ► It's been a really long time, many years since the baseline of AirPod has been updated. And in fact,
01:02:25 ◼ ► you know, it's really the, the version one to two was a better battery life and it can now do
01:02:31 ◼ ► wireless charging. If you remember the original AirPods, you could just buy a new case when they
01:02:37 ◼ ► brought out the second version because it still would basically work. So, you know, we have some
01:02:44 ◼ ► other picks later on as to what these could be. Maybe one of us will pick them, but I'll just say
01:02:48 ◼ ► it now. And if Jason or I want to pick it, we will. But the rumor being it will be much more inspired
01:02:54 ◼ ► by the design of AirPods Pro. So it doesn't seem like it's going to be an in-ear thing, but the
01:02:59 ◼ ► case will get smaller because the case is really big because the AirPods, the original AirPods,
01:03:09 ◼ ► while still keeping it as a cheaper option. You know, we're not going to get stuff like
01:03:12 ◼ ► noise canceling. It will be like, you know, the really good Bluetooth headphones, but in what
01:03:18 ◼ ► should be a much smaller package, we've probably better battery life. Yeah, it would be great to
01:03:23 ◼ ► see. And they don't need to announce it at this event, but they could, right? Like, but why not?
01:03:30 ◼ ► I think they will. I mean, you know, like we've said this before, AirPods is absolutely massive
01:03:35 ◼ ► for them, right? Like they sell more of these than they do Apple watches, I bet. So even if it
01:03:43 ◼ ► should just give it a couple of minutes like, "Hey, and this works great with our new AirPods
01:03:47 ◼ ► starting at blah, blah, blah, available, blah, blah, blah." Yep. Yep. I think it's a good pick.
01:03:53 ◼ ► I feel like we've made this pick before and it hasn't happened yet, but maybe this time.
01:03:57 ◼ ► All right. My next pick, I'm going to stay with stagecraft and I'm going to say we're going to
01:04:01 ◼ ► see the stage of the Steve Jobs Theater. Interesting. We don't see that as much anymore.
01:04:06 ◼ ► Tim Cook standing on stage. I'm just going to go with that. I feel like the iPhone event is a very
01:04:10 ◼ ► Steve Jobs Theater kind of thing and that we're going to do that. Now, again, I'm just making
01:04:16 ◼ ► guesses here because you got to pick something, but I'm going to throw that out there as stagecraft.
01:04:21 ◼ ► Some of the last events recently, Tim Roaming the Halls was one of them. Tim in the Cafeteria
01:04:28 ◼ ► was another, but I do seem to remember they were on stage, but I know they were for WWDC.
01:04:47 ◼ ► It's a Steve Jobs Theater thing and so we'll see him do that, but this is just a complete guess
01:04:51 ◼ ► based on stagecraft, but that's part of the fun of the upgrade draft. But we're talking purely about
01:04:56 ◼ ► the stage, right? Because we've had stuff where they've shot inside of the Steve Jobs Theater very
01:05:00 ◼ ► frequently. Oh yeah, upstairs and all that. That's not what I'm talking about. We're talking about
01:05:04 ◼ ► the stage specifically. All right, cool. I think this one makes a lot of sense. I have a stagecraft
01:05:08 ◼ ► pick that I'll do maybe in a minute, but my second pick is that Apple TV+ trailers or promo videos
01:05:15 ◼ ► will be shown. I almost picked this. Apple have a lot of big stuff coming in the next few weeks and
01:05:20 ◼ ► people are starting to pay now finally and have been for a bit, I think. So you've got Morning
01:05:26 ◼ ► Show coming in a couple of weeks. You've got Foundation coming in a couple of weeks. I think
01:05:31 ◼ ► they've got some movies and stuff. Obviously, the series finale of Ted Lasso is not soon, but around
01:05:37 ◼ ► the corner, you know, so they might, I believe we'll see at least something around this time
01:05:45 ◼ ► for Apple TV+. I think that's good. I almost picked that. That was my next pick as well.
01:05:53 ◼ ► Honestly, I would say if they don't do it, I would question them, right? Like if they had the whole
01:05:59 ◼ ► world watching and didn't show them a sizzle reel of all of their new content, I would question that
01:06:05 ◼ ► decision. I think that would be a bad move. Yeah, I think you're right. They gave time to podcast
01:06:10 ◼ ► subscriptions last year, right? Like, you know, so I think for the iPhone event especially,
01:06:18 ◼ ► because fall is a big time for TV, Apple need to integrate at least some of this in there somewhere
01:06:24 ◼ ► and it's really easy to do, right? Like, oh, and this screen is amazing with all of our stuff and
01:06:29 ◼ ► here's some of those shows coming. So we are talking specifically like not just an image,
01:06:45 ◼ ► No, can I, I can't pick another iPhone or a watch pick. I have to pick another. I have to pick stage
01:06:50 ◼ ► craft, right? Or an iPad. Nobody has picked a new iPad, by the way. I'm not entirely convinced that
01:06:55 ◼ ► this is the event for the iPad, but we'll see. I'm going to, this is weird. Let me know if this is
01:07:00 ◼ ► okay. I am going to make a, we see Ted Lasso pick. So here's what this means. They can't just say Ted
01:07:09 ◼ ► Lasso. We need to see Ted Lasso and, and that means we need to see the guy with the mustache.
01:07:15 ◼ ► We need to see him. It could be in a video clip. It could be in a slide, but we see Ted Lasso.
01:07:24 ◼ ► And I, I tell you where they'll do it as well. I will tell you exactly where it's going to happen.
01:07:34 ◼ ► Ted will be there. Because they do keep doing this, right? Like I see it a lot in their newsroom
01:07:43 ◼ ► stuff. So like the stuff that Apple puts out to press afterwards, Ted finds his way onto a screen
01:08:11 ◼ ► Well wouldn't they be if they have, they stumbled across one of the most popular TV shows on at the
01:08:22 ◼ ► honestly, like in different times, Ted Lasso is going to be a part of the presentation.
01:08:29 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, I think we're all predicting that at some point they're going to do an in-person
01:08:32 ◼ ► thing if they don't do it in a video where Ted Lasso gives his own pep talk or whatever.
01:08:37 ◼ ► And then maybe that'll happen this time. But if all they do is show the Ted Lasso words,
01:08:43 ◼ ► it does not count. But what I'm picking is we see Ted Lasso himself and they're like, well,
01:08:52 ◼ ► and we never see Ted Lasso, then I don't get this pick. But I don't think that's going to happen.
01:08:56 ◼ ► We're going to see that smiling face and that mustache and a shade of blue and it's Ted Lasso.
01:09:01 ◼ ► Yep. I want to give Apple a little pitch here. You can feel free to take this one if anyone's
01:09:05 ◼ ► listening. It's like the opening of a keynote and Tim Cook's backstage and he's nervous and
01:09:10 ◼ ► he's not sure about it. And then he bumps into Ted and Ted gives him the pep talk he needs and
01:09:22 ◼ ► You can do it. I believe you. Maybe it's like he tries to say good morning and his voice cracks or
01:09:33 ◼ ► descend beneath the center of Apple Park to the chip lab, but we pause outside of the chip lab
01:09:39 ◼ ► where Johnny Srugi is a little nervous and then Ted Lasso gives him a pep talk and says,
01:09:44 ◼ ► Or what about we're going down and all of a sudden, wait, it's AFC Wimbledon's locker room.
01:09:53 ◼ ► There you go. All right. I'm going stagecraft then. The rainbow stage at the center of Apple
01:09:59 ◼ ► Park is seen. This one feels easy to me. All they have to do is fly that drone outside and I've got
01:10:05 ◼ ► That's right. Like they do, they pass by and you're like, oh, look, the rainbow. And yeah,
01:10:13 ◼ ► That's the draft. I feel good about this draft. I think we've got a good competitive fun draft
01:10:18 ◼ ► I think so. There were several people in the discord who said you've got it, but those people
01:10:23 ◼ ► Nobody knows, do they? Like, you know, nobody knows because you know why we don't know the
01:10:31 ◼ ► I, um, I have gone in on iPhone pro differentiation, which is not a given. And also the de-differentiation
01:10:43 ◼ ► of LIDAR, which I think is interesting. Um, and there are some Apple watch picks that I actually
01:10:48 ◼ ► regret not picking now, but you know, so, so I'm just going to have to leave it there. And then I
01:10:53 ◼ ► went all stagecraft in the end. This is a tactical thing. I thought the air pods would probably
01:11:00 ◼ ► happen. There are lots of rumors about iPads. We didn't pick any iPad things. I feel like iPad is
01:11:06 ◼ ► a better match for the Mac and that there is going to be a second event. There could be a new iPad
01:11:11 ◼ ► on Tuesday. There absolutely could be very well could be, but my confidence level in that being
01:11:16 ◼ ► necessary is low. And so I didn't go there. If you want to make two one hour events, you do Apple
01:11:24 ◼ ► watch and phone and you do iPad and Mac. I could very well happen, but I don't feel as confident
01:11:33 ◼ ► in that, especially if one of these things is that iPad mini, they will want to spend some time with
01:11:38 ◼ ► that. And I don't know if you've got that time. Right. And especially when you've got, um,
01:11:44 ◼ ► presumably unless you've got a Mac thing that's so packed and I just don't think they will,
01:11:54 ◼ ► iMac that by all accounts that is coming next year. So they don't have a packed Mac event.
01:11:59 ◼ ► So having it be in the grand tradition of Apple late, you know, later in the fall events,
01:12:04 ◼ ► iPad and Mac together, Apple watch and iPhone together in September makes sense to me. So
01:12:09 ◼ ► although I think it's totally possible that there'll be an iPad on Tuesday, neither of us
01:12:13 ◼ ► were really willing to pick it. And I think that says something. So that's the draft. We will be
01:12:19 ◼ ► talking in upgrade plus a little bit more about the draft and maybe commiserating some of our picks,
01:12:24 ◼ ► celebrating some of our picks. If you want to hear longer ad free episodes of upgrade, we even do
01:12:29 ◼ ► bonus content on our bonus episodes. You can go to get upgrade plus.com and you can sign up. Thank
01:12:33 ◼ ► you to everybody that does. Don't forget to donate stjuit.org/relay, whatever money you can. Go into
01:12:40 ◼ ► St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and we can fight childhood cancer together. We're doing this
01:12:45 ◼ ► throughout all of September. We will be back on Tuesday, obviously. So we will be recording,
01:12:52 ◼ ► I think this time, literally as soon as we can after the ending. This changes sometimes. And,
01:12:59 ◼ ► but our plan right now is the event ends. We take a few moments. We collect our thoughts.
01:13:05 ◼ ► 15 minutes maybe after the event ends, but that's what we're going to try to do to be live. And you
01:13:10 ◼ ► can listen live, relay.fm/live. And then of course, as soon as we're done, Myke will do his magical
01:13:16 ◼ ► editing thing and we'll get that episode posted in the podcast feed. As soon as we can. As soon as we
01:13:22 ◼ ► can on Tuesday. So we'll, we'll be there for your postgame show for sure. We endeavor to be the
01:13:33 ◼ ► yeah, look out for that on Tuesday and we'll be giving our hot fresh takes on whatever it is