00:00:08 ◼ ► From Real AFM, this is Upgrade, episode 336. Today's show is brought to you by Fitbod and AirBuddy.
00:00:24 ◼ ► Uh, doing great and uh, I could tell you about the weather but instead, how about a Snell Talk question?
00:00:38 ◼ ► Um, well, I have no idea. That- that's how little- how- I don't- I like- how do I clean it? I mean,
00:00:49 ◼ ► barring the taking like the sleeve of my hoodie and like rubbing it on the screen a little bit,
00:00:56 ◼ ► almost never. Yeah, I never think about cleaning my monitor unless something has happened.
00:01:03 ◼ ► Right, I mean, if you- if somebody tells a joke while you're drinking something and you go,
00:01:07 ◼ ► "Pfft!" and spit take all over your monitor, you- you should clean your monitor then, but- but otherwise, no.
00:01:20 ◼ ► and so I don't- glare is where you're really gonna see stuff on your monitor and so I don't.
00:01:25 ◼ ► So it happens occasionally, I will be like, "Oh, I should probably-" I'll see it at an angle when
00:01:31 ◼ ► it's turned off and I'll be like, "Oh, I should clean my monitor." But that happens very rarely,
00:01:37 ◼ ► only certain times of year, I suppose, when the sun is in the right position to reflect off of the monitor.
00:01:43 ◼ ► If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snotalk
00:01:49 ◼ ► or use question mark snow talk in the Relay FM members discord and you can help us with any question you like.
00:01:55 ◼ ► I have a follow-up, a programming note. Upgradients may want to be aware that Apple's Q1 2020 results
00:02:03 ◼ ► are coming this Wednesday, so we'll be talking about it next week. We are definitely going to
00:02:08 ◼ ► talk about this one because this is the expectation from analysts, I was reading this over the weekend,
00:02:14 ◼ ► is that Apple are expected to pass a hundred billion dollars in revenue for the quarter for the first time,
00:02:21 ◼ ► which would obviously be their biggest quarter of all time. And there's- we all know the many reasons
00:02:28 ◼ ► why that would happen, but it's gonna be, I reckon, pretty fascinating regardless. Like the last quarter
00:02:34 ◼ ► results were too, right? Like there were a lot of weird surprises in it because of the changing ways
00:02:40 ◼ ► of people working. I'm really intrigued to see kind of like what happens to the Mac line.
00:02:46 ◼ ► Yeah, well after that record-breaking quarter and what is the holiday in the middle of the
00:02:53 ◼ ► pandemic, what does the holiday quarter look like, and yes, I think Upgradients should be interested
00:02:58 ◼ ► in knowing that the results are coming this Wednesday. Also, thank you, Myke. I didn't have this on my calendar.
00:03:04 ◼ ► So there was a- thank you for telling me that there were results. 15% of the reason that I put this in the show is to make sure that you were aware that it was happening.
00:03:12 ◼ ► You know, it's funny, I usually think of it about a month before and look up the date and put it in
00:03:17 ◼ ► there, and I think perhaps because I've been so busy with other things, it literally never
00:03:23 ◼ ► occurred to me. So I guess I'll be making some charts on Wednesday. Because it wasn't until I
00:03:28 ◼ ► saw this Matt Groomer's report about the expectations from analysts that I knew that it was this week
00:03:34 ◼ ► either. So, you know, just passing it on. Every three months, like clockwork, and yet it manages to surprise me.
00:03:40 ◼ ► All right, let's talk about some of the news in streaming media and platforms and services in our
00:03:48 ◼ ► regularly recurring segment Upstream. Apple have named Warner Brothers Pictures executive J.P.
00:03:54 ◼ ► Richards as head of film marketing strategy. Clearly, Apple is continuing to move their push
00:04:02 ◼ ► into movies the same way they're pushing into TV. Richards was part of Warner Brothers, like up until
00:04:08 ◼ ► very recently. I think he's still there, but like in their shakeup, he's leaving. But, you know,
00:04:14 ◼ ► having been somewhere there modern, he's worked on a bunch of, you know, really popular movies for
00:04:19 ◼ ► them, like Wonder Woman and Joker and The Star is Born and stuff like that. Yeah, and it's just
00:04:24 ◼ ► an example about the importance. We focus a lot on streaming services as places to go for TV series,
00:04:33 ◼ ► but they are, I was going to say increasingly, but we're already there. They are also a place
00:04:37 ◼ ► for film release and not just the sort of Oscar bait film release stuff, but as a strategy. Some
00:04:44 ◼ ► audiences don't want to binge necessarily as many TV shows, but they do want to have a movie to watch,
00:04:51 ◼ ► sit down and watch a good film. And that's why another item we have in Upstream that we should
00:04:57 ◼ ► probably mention in this context, which is Netflix strategy is so film focused in so many ways,
00:05:05 ◼ ► and they made a statement that they're going to release just a huge number of films. It's more
00:05:19 ◼ ► These are just the films that they know they have. There could be more. These are all the films that
00:05:32 ◼ ► like, you know it, name your favorite Hollywood actor. They're probably on Netflix. They have
00:05:44 ◼ ► And I'm sure Netflix are trying to and will do whatever they can to pick up any movie that they
00:05:51 ◼ ► can that is not going to be in theaters this year. And so movies continue to be, I think movies are
00:06:08 ◼ ► And don't get it wrong. This is not pandemic related. Like they haven't got all these movies
00:06:13 ◼ ► because they're not going to be in the cinemas. These were always going to be Netflix movies.
00:06:17 ◼ ► There's some acceleration there, but it was going to happen anyway. And I was thinking about it. I
00:06:23 ◼ ► have watched movies recently, movies on HBO Max, Netflix, Hulu, Apple TV Plus. Like you can, I can
00:06:35 ◼ ► go through them. Like I have watched movies, new release movies on all of these services, Prime
00:06:40 ◼ ► Video, like good, real, real movies. And so I get the appeal. I get the appeal of it that,
00:06:52 ◼ ► you know, the movies just keep rolling onto these services and, yeah, people, there are different
00:06:57 ◼ ► audiences for these different things. Some people want to sit down and binge, you know, 10 episodes
00:07:02 ◼ ► of something. And some people want to have like that big release movie that's two hours of super
00:07:08 ◼ ► concentrated entertainment. And the streaming services see that as an opportunity. So I think
00:07:14 ◼ ► it's interesting when you look at Netflix and then you see that Apple is staffing up even more
00:07:17 ◼ ► on its film side. And we've had lots of reports about Apple making deals for movies and then
00:07:21 ◼ ► doing development of movies and funding movies themselves that like, this is another trend.
00:07:26 ◼ ► So whether you're looking at Apple TV Plus or you're looking at any of its competition,
00:07:30 ◼ ► this is, I think it's going to be an interesting question. We talked about the effects of the
00:07:35 ◼ ► pandemic on the movie industry. In five years, what kind of movies are released on streaming
00:07:39 ◼ ► and what kind of movies are released in theaters? And what does that look like? Because that's an
00:07:47 ◼ ► if you asked any of the streaming services, they would say, "We're not making lesser movies."
00:07:53 ◼ ► These aren't like, you know, what we used to call TV movies that were like movies, but really,
00:07:57 ◼ ► it's just like low budget and it's really like a one episode TV show. They want them to feel,
00:08:04 ◼ ► you know, completely cinematic and real. And at the same time, traditional movie theaters
00:08:09 ◼ ► had kind of crowded out almost everything that wasn't either a prestige Oscar bait kind of movie
00:08:16 ◼ ► or a blockbuster. So there's plenty of room for all kinds of movies maybe on streaming that
00:08:22 ◼ ► wouldn't be there in movie theaters. So, you know, I think it would be a mistake to say that
00:08:44 ◼ ► - Everything's, the shuffling continues. That's very much a vaccine motivated move, right? Which
00:08:50 ◼ ► is like, "Oh, I think by October, surely by October," it's a we're in the bargaining stage,
00:08:54 ◼ ► right? "Surely by October, theaters will be back open." And maybe they will, but I'm going to share
00:09:00 ◼ ► with everybody out there something that I've kind of come up with in my own life and I've talked to
00:09:11 ◼ ► coronavirus impact on something, bet the over is what I'm saying. Bet the over. It'll be worse
00:09:19 ◼ ► than that. No one yet has made a bet on COVID-19 that's been like, "Oh, it was better than I
00:09:27 ◼ ► thought." That hasn't, it may happen. It may happen. I hope it happens. Hasn't happened yet.
00:09:33 ◼ ► So this is, you know, MGM is like, "Come on October for James Bond. Maybe it'll be October."
00:09:39 ◼ ► Maybe it will be. But, you know, we've gone through a series of like, "It'll be later in 2020.
00:09:44 ◼ ► It'll be early in '21." And the one that makes me laugh, I was watching a football playoff game
00:09:48 ◼ ► yesterday and they have movie sponsors and so the announcers will come back and say, "Oh, the AFC
00:09:55 ◼ ► Championship game is brought to you by this movie in theaters March 24th," or whatever. And it was,
00:10:01 ◼ ► it was, "The AFC Championship game is brought to you by this movie 2021." I thought, "Wow,
00:10:08 ◼ ► just sometime. It'll come out sometime." Somewhere. Exactly. Watch it somewhere in the future.
00:10:30 ◼ ► Daniel Craig will be two years older when this movie came out than when he finished filming it.
00:10:44 ◼ ► and then Disney for a long time. And that had a bunch of kid, you know, young actors in it who are
00:10:48 ◼ ► like, it had Anya from Game of Thrones, Maisie Williams was in it. And like anybody who watched
00:10:57 ◼ ► Game of Thrones, like she's way younger in the New Mutants than she was in Game of Thrones.
00:11:05 ◼ ► I can't even remember the names of the kids in Game of Thrones. Anyway, there are people who are
00:11:09 ◼ ► way, way, way younger than they were when you saw them last year on TV. And that's because it sat on
00:11:16 ◼ ► the shelf. So fortunately, Daniel Craig doesn't visibly age, so it'll be okay. NBC universal is
00:11:23 ◼ ► going to be shutting down NBCSN, which is their sports network at the end of 2021. They're going
00:11:40 ◼ ► by the way, a real time follow up. Yes, Maisie Williams is who it was, who is in, who's in the
00:11:46 ◼ ► new means. So because her, her another X-Men movie with the other young woman from Game of Thrones,
00:11:55 ◼ ► so confusing, so many X-Men movies. The, this story about NBC Sports Network, just like this
00:12:03 ◼ ► is NBC's attempt to do ESPN essentially, and Fox had one and CBS has one. And there was a trend
00:12:12 ◼ ► last decade be like, well, we need a sports only channel too, and we're going to buy sports rights
00:12:15 ◼ ► and we're going to plow it in to that channel and people are going to have to demand it on their
00:12:19 ◼ ► cable company and we'll make money from cable companies. And the reason I put this story in our
00:12:24 ◼ ► notes is because I feel like this is actually kind of a huge story because this is what this decade
00:12:31 ◼ ► is going to be. This decade is going to be turning off cable channels, moving the content to streaming
00:12:39 ◼ ► or to cable or broadcast channels that have much larger audiences and just sort of simplifying the
00:12:46 ◼ ► approach. So the idea here is that NBC Universal is literally tearing down their sports channel
00:12:51 ◼ ► on cable. It's going to, the lights are going to go out this year and they're going to move some
00:12:56 ◼ ► of that stuff to USA Network, which has a much broader penetration into households in the US.
00:13:01 ◼ ► They might put some stuff on broadcast TV, on more stuff on NBC broadcast, and they've got Peacock,
00:13:08 ◼ ► so they know they can put literally everything else can just go on Peacock. And it will,
00:13:14 ◼ ► and this is their strategy. And so is it super notable as a story onto itself? Maybe not,
00:13:21 ◼ ► but I feel like we're going to see this same story happen again and again until what we think of as
00:13:29 ◼ ► the cable bundle is a lot more simplified because a lot of that stuff is just not going to make
00:13:33 ◼ ► financial sense anymore. And streaming becomes something that makes more financial sense. So
00:13:44 ◼ ► yeah, got its start was the ads for the Premier League on NBCSN. And they're shutting it down
00:13:51 ◼ ► because at some point somebody said, why are we spending all the money on having our own sports
00:13:56 ◼ ► network when we can just put the high profile stuff on USA and everything else on Peacock
00:14:01 ◼ ► and be done with it? And that's what they're going to do. Following on from this, NBC's Peacock and
00:14:07 ◼ ► the WWE have entered an agreement to make Peacock the only place for the WWE Network Streaming
00:14:13 ◼ ► Service to be available in the US. We go now to Upgrades special wrestling correspondent,
00:14:19 ◼ ► Myke Hurley. This is a massive deal. So the WWE has 1.5 million, I believe paying subscribers
00:14:27 ◼ ► in the US, um, which now becomes a base for Peacock as well. Yep. They all get Peacock,
00:14:34 ◼ ► Peacock premium, I think, which is the one that it's got ads, but it's the one you have to pay for.
00:14:39 ◼ ► And that's where all that content goes. And all those subscribers get just moved over into,
00:14:43 ◼ ► into Peacock, which means they get access to all the, all the Peacock stuff too. Yeah. It's
00:14:47 ◼ ► interesting because you could either keep paying the same amount that you were paying and get
00:14:51 ◼ ► premium with no ads, or you can cut it down by half, get ads on Peacock stuff. And then you also
00:14:57 ◼ ► still get all the WWE content as well. Um, the Wall Street Journal says this deal is worth over
00:15:11 ◼ ► entering into these agreements with other companies around the globe. Now, the WWE network is worldwide
00:15:17 ◼ ► because they own all the content. So they don't really have issues because this is the way that
00:15:23 ◼ ► it works. They're kind of clever about it in a way that TV shows were never on the WWE network.
00:15:30 ◼ ► They play them later, but they have arrangements. So like one of their shows is on the USA network
00:15:35 ◼ ► already, which is part of NBC. Um, and then they have different agreements around the world,
00:15:40 ◼ ► but they have additional content and what used to be their pay-per-views have always shown on
00:15:48 ◼ ► to do a pay-per-view of the Royal Rumble or whatever to we're going to just put it on our
00:15:53 ◼ ► streaming service and go from an all cart model to a subscription streaming service model, which we,
00:15:58 ◼ ► anybody who listens to upstream will nod and say, okay, that's interesting. Cause they've,
00:16:02 ◼ ► they threw out their kind of old, old model and went to this new model and now they're,
00:16:07 ◼ ► they're just wrapping it inside of, of peacock. They're, they're wrapping it inside of an existing,
00:16:12 ◼ ► you know, this is essentially NBC universal, not buying the WWE, but buying the, you know,
00:16:21 ◼ ► buying or licensing the WWE is streaming content, all of it. Cause while they make a lot of original
00:16:26 ◼ ► stuff, a lot of documentaries and the documentaries tell the actual true stories, right. If what's
00:16:32 ◼ ► happening in these people's lives and it's customer customer acquisition, because they're getting all
00:16:37 ◼ ► of those subscribers who presumably, you know, they can then say, look at all these extra peacock
00:16:41 ◼ ► subscribers we've got, um, you know, that we can sell ads to which, cause that is part of their
00:16:46 ◼ ► business. I wonder, and I don't know enough about this, but I do look at this and think,
00:16:51 ◼ ► I wonder if in the long run they might buy the WWE, but they might not need to. And right now
00:16:58 ◼ ► their ambition is, yeah, right now their ambition is not, uh, worldwide necessarily for NBC universal,
00:17:09 ◼ ► like how Disney plus has star Wars and Marvel and Disney and Pixar, right. They have, uh,
00:17:17 ◼ ► they have this Disney plus another thing I watch movies on. Um, they, they have wrestling now,
00:17:23 ◼ ► right. That's like part of peacock. They've got premier league and they've got wrestling. Like
00:17:28 ◼ ► they're starting to put together, uh, and the office that's basically what's on peacock now.
00:17:36 ◼ ► Look, this is all, you know, they're adding people are like, well, why would I get peacock? And it's
00:17:45 ◼ ► league stuff to peacock and now we've moved, we've moved the WWE to peacock and like, okay, well,
00:17:50 ◼ ► and we're going to move even more of our sports there because we're shutting down our sports
00:17:53 ◼ ► channel. And this is, this is how the game is going to be played from now on. They're there.
00:17:57 ◼ ► It's fascinating to see them being this aggressive with this, but I, I think all of this stuff is
00:18:02 ◼ ► smart. I think it's smart. And it's this, uh, the transition from the WWE network to peacocks
00:18:07 ◼ ► can happen in March. So to get it done before WrestleMania, cause that's when you want to do
00:18:12 ◼ ► this before WrestleMania cause WrestleMania is where the casual people like casual viewers
00:18:17 ◼ ► will come. Right. And so they might be able to every year I expect that the WWE picks up new
00:18:22 ◼ ► subscribers around that time. We stick around for the year. Um, so it makes perfect sense.
00:18:27 ◼ ► Once the mania subsides, people will have peacock. They'll, they'll wake up from the mania and
00:18:32 ◼ ► they'll be like, whoa. And they can be calmed by Michael Scott, I guess, you know, everyone calm
00:18:37 ◼ ► down. All right. This episode is brought to you by AirBuddy. When you open your AirPods near your
00:18:44 ◼ ► iPhone or your iPad, you get that beautiful user interface animation, right? It makes AirPods such
00:18:49 ◼ ► a lovely little experience. It's like, Hey, your AirPods are connected, but when you open their Mac,
00:18:54 ◼ ► nothing for you. But if you have AirBuddy, you get that same smooth experience and more with AirPods
00:19:01 ◼ ► on your Mac and with AirBuddy 2, this is taken to the next level of a refreshed user interface,
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00:19:12 ◼ ► including the AirPods Pro and AirPods Max and all beats products powered by the W1 or H1 chip.
00:19:18 ◼ ► Simply connect and change listening modes at the same time of a single gesture on the trackpad
00:19:23 ◼ ► using AirBuddy's connection modes, you can automate system volume, audio input, and listening
00:19:28 ◼ ► mode so that you're ready to go for that video conference with just a single click. That's very
00:19:33 ◼ ► clever stuff. It's very useful. AirBuddy can also show you battery information for your iPhone,
00:19:39 ◼ ► iPad, or iPod touch and their accessories, all from the batteries widget, which can be added
00:19:44 ◼ ► to notification center or Mac OS. I really love AirBuddy. I love having the animations. That's
00:19:50 ◼ ► just a nice touch, but like that battery widget is very useful and it's doing something that the Mac
00:19:57 ◼ ► doesn't do. There isn't one, right? We have those battery widgets on iOS, but we don't have them on
00:20:01 ◼ ► the Mac and you can get them this way. And one of my very favorite features is you can assign a
00:20:07 ◼ ► keyboard shortcut to some of the interactions in AirBuddy. So if I'm wearing headphones or whatever,
00:20:12 ◼ ► and for whatever reason it's not connecting to my Mac, I have this issue. I use a keyboard shortcut
00:20:17 ◼ ► and it will find the like whatever headphones are in use and closest to that Mac, it will connect to
00:20:23 ◼ ► them instantly. It's really fantastic. I use this every single day with my AirPods Max. I just hit
00:20:29 ◼ ► the shortcut and it says it's connected and I'm good to go. AirBuddy is sandboxed. It doesn't
00:20:33 ◼ ► require any kernel extensions. It's fully compatible with Mac OS Big Sur and Apple Silicon,
00:20:38 ◼ ► but it works on any Mac with Bluetooth low energy running Mac OS 10.14.6 or later. So it still works
00:20:45 ◼ ► there as well. And as a fun side note, this app is made by friends of the show, Gee Rambo. So
00:20:52 ◼ ► you know it's good. If you have AirPods and you have a Mac, you need AirBuddy. Go to airbuddy.app/upgradefm
00:21:05 ◼ ► discount. That's airbuddy.app/upgradefm. Go there quick to get that 20% discount. There'll be a link
00:21:11 ◼ ► in the show notes too. Our thanks to AirBuddy for their support of this show and Relay FM. I use
00:21:16 ◼ ► this app every single day. Big recommend. It's good. So Apple today announced a feature that
00:21:28 ◼ ► We did. Apple should add this to Fitness Plus. It's called Time to Walk. It is an inspiring
00:21:35 ◼ ► audio walking experience. This is an Apple Watch and AirPods feature. So which is interesting to
00:21:42 ◼ ► me. The only way you can listen to this content is by using an Apple Watch with connected Bluetooth
00:21:47 ◼ ► headphones. There will be weekly original content featuring influential and inspiring people.
00:21:53 ◼ ► The first four episodes of this fitness content feature Dolly Parton, Draymond Green, Shawn Mendes,
00:22:02 ◼ ► and Uzo Aduba. They show, and what I like as well, so that basically they're talking to you about
00:22:06 ◼ ► something. They have a story for you, right? So it's all different stuff. Everybody's got their
00:22:11 ◼ ► own story. And while they're telling you the stories, they show images on the Apple Watch
00:22:16 ◼ ► as you're listening, which are relevant to the story that they're telling. And then once the
00:22:35 ◼ ► But I think that's on the next version of WatchOS currently, because without an update,
00:22:39 ◼ ► they're available now. And you have to download them from the Fitness app. So they're in the
00:22:43 ◼ ► Fitness app today. It's just service, high content stuff. I really like as well that this feature is
00:22:50 ◼ ► available for wheelchair users as well. And it's called Time to Push if you're a wheelchair user.
00:22:59 ◼ ► I've seen a lot of people say that these are podcasts. I don't understand why people keep
00:23:05 ◼ ► saying that. They're not. I don't know why people are like, "Hey, it's Apple's original podcast
00:23:09 ◼ ► strategy." This is not Apple's original podcast strategy. We've already seen it. We spoke about
00:23:13 ◼ ► it. They have actual podcasts that they make. One's called Apple News Today. We spoke about this.
00:23:23 ◼ ► you could say it's original audio content released weekly. But it is tied into Fitness Plus and only
00:23:29 ◼ ► available on the Apple Watch. Right? It's not quite the same. But I get the release schedule
00:23:43 ◼ ► Sure. Like, I understand that. But they just don't feel... I just don't understand. It's like,
00:23:52 ◼ ► it's like we say Spotify's podcasts aren't podcasts, right? But they're more like podcasts
00:23:59 ◼ ► than this. Well, oh, well, Spotify's podcasts aren't podcasts. These are definitely not
00:24:04 ◼ ► podcasts. If everything is a podcast, then these are podcasts. If audiobooks are a podcast,
00:24:13 ◼ ► Is the dance the robot a podcast? I mentioned this in the context of running. Because I felt
00:24:25 ◼ ► like they don't have any running content because you run outside. And I said it would be nice if
00:24:30 ◼ ► they did some audio only content. And walking is good because the idea there is also you're getting
00:24:35 ◼ ► somebody active. Like, get off your couch, get out of your chair, go for a walk and listen to
00:24:42 ◼ ► an interesting story from Draymond Green. Great. I'm intrigued by that. I want to hear what Draymond
00:24:47 ◼ ► Green has to say. He plays for the Warriors. He's a basketball player. I do wonder about runs.
00:24:55 ◼ ► That would be an interesting idea, like a guided run. And it comes back to some of the other
00:25:05 ◼ ► could you use the sensors to build an experience that's a little more interactive? So like,
00:25:13 ◼ ► could you do a run thing where the voices drop in and there's also music and it kind of comes
00:25:18 ◼ ► back and forth? Or would it be just more of a linear thing of like somebody having you run
00:25:23 ◼ ► and then telling you a story? I don't know, but I'm intrigued by the idea. I would love to try out
00:25:29 ◼ ► some audio content for runs because I do them and it would be, I listen to podcasts now, which is
00:25:35 ◼ ► fine, but I would give it a shot. And then I've also heard people say that this might be a nice
00:25:41 ◼ ► way to do kind of meditation or relaxation or other stuff like that, where again, you don't need
00:25:47 ◼ ► to be watching a TV screen, you get your eyes closed, but you could use it as a kind of gentle
00:25:54 ◼ ► guidance, sort of like how that there are those meditation apps that let you do this and they're
00:26:00 ◼ ► expensive subscription apps too, right? So they could get into that as well of like a calm down,
00:26:06 ◼ ► a mindful relaxation kind of thing. I think there's opportunity for Fitness+ to go in that
00:26:11 ◼ ► direction as well. And then our friend, Shelly Brisbane, I think pointed out in one of our
00:26:23 ◼ ► audio only content is good for people who don't consume video content. So I'm encouraged by this.
00:26:31 ◼ ► I love that they are already rolling out other features of Fitness+. I think that's good.
00:26:36 ◼ ► - Yeah, and it's a good one to have because it's also like if you have Fitness+, but you're not like
00:26:43 ◼ ► a big high intensity workout training type person, this is like another thing that you can add,
00:26:48 ◼ ► like is of value to you, right? And so I'm going to do one of these tomorrow. So I'm going to go
00:26:55 ◼ ► out for a walk tomorrow and I'll listen to one of these things. I don't know why this has to be
00:27:16 ◼ ► so Fitness+ currently at least is Apple Watch required. So I think it's that, and maybe they've
00:27:26 ◼ ► got kind of a gimmick going to about, like, I don't know if you stop walking, if you just listen
00:27:32 ◼ ► to these on your couch, does it stop playing and make you walk more or something? Like it could use
00:27:38 ◼ ► the walk as a metaphor and we really know we really want you to walk during this. And they're
00:27:44 ◼ ► using the Apple Watch as the sensor to do all of that stuff, even though you could do that on the
00:27:48 ◼ ► phone as well. They're all, you know, it's all tied in. I do wonder if some of it is just a,
00:27:53 ◼ ► did you know that you can pair headphones with your Apple Watch and just walk with your Apple Watch?
00:27:59 ◼ ► But you're right, this could very easily be something you could do with just your iPhone.
00:28:28 ◼ ► was very close to what we talked about. And it was one of my theories for how Apple could possibly do
00:28:36 ◼ ► - Was I said it was kind of like a VR developer kit that could fake AR, but that would be really
00:28:42 ◼ ► more of a high-priced developer demo and something that would be for mass use, but it would allow them
00:28:47 ◼ ► to get the hardware out there and that they had the hardware for this so they could put it out there.
00:28:55 ◼ ► is this a product for people or is it kind of a tech demo for developers and could it be sold
00:29:18 ◼ ► designed as a high-end niche product with expectations that it's not going to be a product
00:29:24 ◼ ► that sells exceedingly well in its first iteration, but it's believed this is a first step towards more
00:29:31 ◼ ► compelling products in the future. There was actually, the sales expectations are very slim.
00:29:42 ◼ ► as one per day in retail stores, which is similar to the kind of volumes they have for the Mac Pro
00:30:06 ◼ ► essentially something that's pitched as a tech demo product, that it's a developer product.
00:30:12 ◼ ► Like a Mac Pro, it's a developer product and it's not for the masses and it's not going to be
00:30:17 ◼ ► marketed for the masses, but it'll be available. Maybe you don't have to be a developer to buy it,
00:30:45 ◼ ► I think the benefit that you have there is that you don't have to have the Apple Watch problem,
00:30:54 ◼ ► right? Of like, "Hey, we have this thing, it does everything, see how it works." And it was very
00:31:04 ◼ ► scattershot. If Apple do a thing like this, a product like this, it's purely to understand on
00:31:13 ◼ ► a larger scale their future of this type of device. This is not the device. This is the first version
00:31:22 ◼ ► of honestly not even the thing they're going to make, right? This is a VR-focused device.
00:31:27 ◼ ► It will display a 3D environment for gaming, video viewing, and communicating with others.
00:31:33 ◼ ► Currently set to debut as soon as 2022. This is not the product. The product is AR glasses.
00:31:45 ◼ ► you'll see how developers like it. You'll see what customers like and what they don't like.
00:31:54 ◼ ► cards down on the table and hoping that it works. Apple got to do that with the iPhone.
00:31:59 ◼ ► You can't keep doing that. That's not a thing you can just do every time, right? I mean,
00:32:04 ◼ ► I know the iPhone was not perfect, but it was a very, for its time, very fully realized.
00:32:12 ◼ ► It had everything you would want and more. They have not succeeded in doing that with the iPad.
00:32:21 ◼ ► They have not succeeded in doing that with the Apple Watch. They all took time to understand how
00:32:26 ◼ ► these products would be used by people and what they were good for, for them to really take off.
00:32:31 ◼ ► - Right, but they were fully featured products. I think the problem that I have with this rumor
00:32:37 ◼ ► is that this is, like you said, this is not the product. This is version zero of a product.
00:32:45 ◼ ► And Apple traditionally does not release version zero of a product, which is why I'm kind of
00:32:53 ◼ ► speculated that it would be released as developer hardware, as a way to basically say this isn't for
00:32:58 ◼ ► people. And maybe they could brand it as something that was essentially developer or technical
00:33:04 ◼ ► review or whatever, and then get it out there. But it seems weird that they would even treat it as a
00:33:09 ◼ ► regular product, even if you could buy it from, like why even put it in Apple retail? Why not just
00:33:14 ◼ ► have it be at just online and it's expensive and nobody is gonna buy it unless they're a developer?
00:33:21 ◼ ► - To demo this stuff physically. So they would put it in retail for that, right? Like if you
00:33:29 ◼ ► - But do you wanna, I mean, unless they're using it as kind of marketing for the future of air,
00:33:34 ◼ ► but it's like not a product people should buy. If it's not a product people should buy,
00:33:38 ◼ ► this is the core of my confusion about this, is Apple releases products people should buy.
00:33:43 ◼ ► And Mark Gurman's report is sort of like, this isn't a product people should buy. It's not,
00:33:53 ◼ ► but they're gonna do it. And it's gonna be VR, not AR. And it's everything that we described,
00:34:01 ◼ ► which is you could take an iPhone and iPhone games and all those things and put them in a headset and
00:34:05 ◼ ► have something like an Oculus Quest 2. You could do it. And Mark Gurman's report is they are gonna
00:34:10 ◼ ► do it. That's what they're gonna do. And that's fine. Like I could see a report that said,
00:34:18 ◼ ► Apple thinks that it can make a better Oculus Quest 2 than Facebook can. And it's gonna do it.
00:34:25 ◼ ► And will it sell a billion of them? Well, no, but it gives them a beachhead with VR games and stuff,
00:34:32 ◼ ► and then their AR product will follow. But that's not what the report says. The report says, no,
00:34:41 ◼ ► And they're not gonna sell any, and it's gonna be very expensive. And that's the part that baffles
00:34:46 ◼ ► me because either you make a product that's like the Oculus Quest and you make it popular within a
00:34:54 ◼ ► certain circle, or you make a very expensive high-end product that is essentially a tech
00:35:00 ◼ ► demo for developers. For Apple to release, both of those are things that I understand Apple doing.
00:35:08 ◼ ► I don't understand kind of something that's both at once. So I'm a little bit baffled by that.
00:35:14 ◼ ► So I appreciate Samsung as a company because they release products just so they can get better at
00:35:30 ◼ ► making the future version of that product. Sure. But Apple doesn't do that. Not typically, no.
00:35:37 ◼ ► Even the Apple Watch didn't feel like a throw it against the wall kind of product, even though
00:35:43 ◼ ► its messaging was very much throw it against the wall. It did feel like a focused Apple product,
00:35:48 ◼ ► just a first-generation product. When they showed it off, it seemed like, wow, this thing can do
00:35:57 ◼ ► anything. But when we received it, we realized it kind of can't. It's not great for all of the
00:36:04 ◼ ► stuff that we were shown. It's better at these certain things. Similarly for the most recent
00:36:10 ◼ ► Apple TV. TV OS was shown to us as being like, oh, it can do everything. But really, it does
00:36:16 ◼ ► these things very well. My thinking on this, the reason I like this is that even though it is not
00:36:23 ◼ ► the typical Apple move, I think it is the right move if they want to make the best version of the
00:36:30 ◼ ► AR glasses that they can possibly make, is by taking these small steps that at the time that
00:37:02 ◼ ► I know this is a bold strategy, Cotten. I don't know if it's going to work out for them,
00:37:10 ◼ ► - I agree to a point. We've been saying all along that Apple's focus on AR is very clear,
00:37:16 ◼ ► in iPads and iPhones, is very clearly just laying groundwork because they want to do AR
00:37:21 ◼ ► on your face, but they haven't gotten there yet. And that part I kind of accept. Apple does a lot
00:37:29 ◼ ► of testing of new tech in existing tech and then rolls it all together. And again, maybe Mark
00:37:37 ◼ ► Gorman doesn't have this part clear. I don't know, but it's the, this is not going to be a product
00:37:45 ◼ ► that sells exceedingly well in its first iteration and that it's a niche high-end product. That would
00:37:53 ◼ ► be a real change in strategy for Apple to release a product, a big new first generation in a new
00:38:00 ◼ ► class product for Apple that Apple basically says you're not going to want. Now that doesn't stop
00:38:06 ◼ ► them. The counter argument would be, they're not going to do it like that. They're going to make it
00:38:11 ◼ ► that this is Apple's finally making a VR thing for games and stuff and it's revolutionary.
00:38:16 ◼ ► And yeah, it costs $1,200. If you want it, go buy it and everybody will scream about the price.
00:38:21 ◼ ► And Apple behind the scenes is like, that's fine. We don't want you to actually buy this one,
00:38:25 ◼ ► but that they're going to be like, no, but it's best in class. And look at how beautiful,
00:38:28 ◼ ► like according to the Gorman report, the screen quality is way better, which is, you know, VR
00:38:33 ◼ ► goggles, it's grainy, right? We're used to high resolution displays and they aren't capable of
00:38:40 ◼ ► that. So maybe this one is, and it's truly HD and they're going to have really good cameras.
00:38:44 ◼ ► I have iPhone cameras on it. So when you're in mixed reality mode and you can see the world
00:38:48 ◼ ► around you, it actually looks pretty good. It's high resolution, it's color. And, and because
00:38:54 ◼ ► like the Quest 2 is it's low resolution and black and white, and it still blows me away when I'm in
00:39:00 ◼ ► that mixed reality mode. I'm like, Whoa, I can see the world around me while I'm wearing these
00:39:05 ◼ ► things. It's great. Right? So if Apple could do that and do it really well, I can see all of that.
00:39:10 ◼ ► It's just fascinating because it would be a change for them. And I guess, I guess we'll see, I think
00:39:17 ◼ ► they could probably release something like this and hide it away more in a developer context,
00:39:22 ◼ ► which is why I suggested that because then it's sort of like at a developer conference,
00:39:27 ◼ ► Apple announced VR goggles that cost $1,200 or whatever, a large amount of money. Nobody is
00:39:33 ◼ ► interested in them, but it almost takes the pressure off of them. It makes everybody speculate
00:39:37 ◼ ► about Apple's long-term plans, but it takes the pressure off of Apple in one sense because they
00:39:42 ◼ ► don't have to be that product. That product is, it has like a disclaimer on it, right? It's like,
00:39:49 ◼ ► this isn't a product. It's like, it's like, we're not going to reviews of the, of the Apple Silicon
00:39:54 ◼ ► Mac mini developer test kit that was running on the A14Z or A12Z. It's like, we don't care. Like,
00:40:01 ◼ ► it's not a real product. So Apple could do that if it wanted to and say, this is not a real product.
00:40:05 ◼ ► Look away, avert your eyes. If they choose not to do that, I'm not saying that they won't. And I'm
00:40:12 ◼ ► not saying that's a bad idea, but I am saying that's really interesting because Apple is heavily
00:40:19 ◼ ► scrutinized. It's not something that I feel like they've really done before. It has a potential to
00:40:23 ◼ ► really backfire on them. You worry about the stink of it, stinking up what you do next. And maybe
00:40:29 ◼ ► they're so confident that they're not worried about that. But I guess what I'm saying is,
00:40:33 ◼ ► in the past, they've just hidden this stuff. And if they choose not to hide it, that's going to be
00:40:38 ◼ ► really interesting because I think it's a move that they haven't made before. But, you know,
00:40:43 ◼ ► make no mistake, I totally see what this product could be. And it could be really great, even if
00:40:48 ◼ ► it's very expensive. It could be actually kind of great. But it's a weird thought to say that Apple's
00:40:54 ◼ ► going to release something as a consumer product. Essentially, they're going to call it that and
00:40:57 ◼ ► release it like that and put it in Apple stores when all they're really doing is laying the
00:41:02 ◼ ► groundwork for the glasses that are to come in '21 or in '22 or '23. So from Mark Gorman's report,
00:41:11 ◼ ► Mark says that the plan is that the product will build a foundation of their AR ambitions to come,
00:41:20 ◼ ► And this is the thing, we can see the logic in that. But it's certainly a peculiar thing to do,
00:41:27 ◼ ► though, right? Like, "Hey, this thing costs $1,200. We're going to show you all the features
00:41:36 ◼ ► Right? That, right. And if they truly feel that way, it's a developed product, call it that.
00:41:42 ◼ ► But I do wonder if they're like, "Well, you know, our fans, some of them will buy this,
00:41:48 ◼ ► even if it's really expensive." Like, there are people who have no business buying a Pro Display
00:42:06 ◼ ► the Pro Display XDR, like, don't need the features, but it is a beautiful Apple product. And I'm not
00:42:11 ◼ ► really making fun of you. I'm saying there is a part of Apple's market that wants the newest Apple
00:42:17 ◼ ► stuff, and it doesn't really matter. They're not going to make it a bestseller, but they will buy
00:42:22 ◼ ► it if they're allowed to. Like, a lot of people would have bought that A12Z Mac Mini if they were
00:42:29 ◼ ► allowed to, even though it's just for developers. - There are enough Apple podcasts in the world.
00:42:36 ◼ ► buy it if you want, but don't buy it. But, you know, but if you want. I guess I look at it,
00:42:47 ◼ ► Apple releasing a product to the consumer market, to everybody, putting it in Apple stores, it is
00:42:53 ◼ ► Apple putting a stamp on it saying, "This is ready to go. This is ready for prime time. This is ready
00:42:57 ◼ ► to be judged. This is ready to be analyzed." Because Apple doesn't have a tradition of throwing
00:43:04 ◼ ► the spaghetti against the wall. Apple doesn't release 15 phones and see what happens, and 13
00:43:14 ◼ ► of them are discontinued and are never seen again. It doesn't do that. So it is opening itself up to
00:43:21 ◼ ► a level of criticism and scrutiny that it could avoid if it wants to. I am fascinated. I will be,
00:43:29 ◼ ► like, if they welcome it and say, "No, we're gonna, yeah, it's a high-end VR set, and obviously,
00:43:35 ◼ ► it's a first crack, and this is gonna go in a lot of places, and most people probably aren't
00:43:39 ◼ ► gonna want this, but those who do are gonna have the best-in-class VR experience that's ever been
00:43:44 ◼ ► done," right? They'll say that. That's what Apple says. And maybe they will. That would be a real
00:43:50 ◼ ► gutsy move for them, and it would be... That's why I'm fascinated most by it is that I feel like
00:43:54 ◼ ► what that says about Apple changing its strategy. I have no doubt it'll be good. Like, I have no
00:44:00 ◼ ► doubt it would be good because they've got all the pieces to make it good. It just will be, like,
00:44:04 ◼ ► super expensive, but I have no doubt it would be best-in-class, at least among the standalone,
00:44:15 ◼ ► During testing, Apple struggled with the size and weight of the device, so they removed the space
00:44:19 ◼ ► and the hardware to accommodate for eyeglasses. So basically, a lot of these devices, they have,
00:44:27 ◼ ► like, a lens adjustment thing, so if you have eyeglasses, you can kind of adjust the lens so
00:44:40 ◼ ► - I mentioned with the Quest that I bought that they have this, the Virtue Clear lens insert.
00:44:48 ◼ ► - Okay, all right. Well, it's... Yeah, that's right. That's right. Well, so Oculus has a
00:44:52 ◼ ► partner. They work actually with Frames Direct, and they have these $80 inserts that go on the
00:44:58 ◼ ► goggles on the inside, and you order them... You know, it's not a prescription in the sense of,
00:45:06 ◼ ► like, you need to go to your doctor, but you do need to sort of know what your adjustment is,
00:45:09 ◼ ► and you order... I have some, that I bought on Amazon, some swim goggles that are adjusted,
00:45:16 ◼ ► that are corrected, so that I can kind of see out of them, and they're not perfect by any means,
00:45:20 ◼ ► but it means I don't have to wear my glasses in the ocean and have them swept off my face,
00:45:24 ◼ ► and then I can't see until I go home, right? That almost happened. So that's what it would be.
00:45:41 ◼ ► It would probably not be, you know, lens crafters creating custom prescription things for your...
00:45:48 ◼ ► It's probably more like, "Do you have your prescription?" You can look on it or bring it in,
00:45:56 ◼ ► or we ship them to you if you know it. And that's pretty easy to do, because I've done that for my
00:46:01 ◼ ► swim goggles. If their future is making AR glasses, they need to be able to accommodate for complex
00:46:09 ◼ ► prescriptions. It's true. They got to figure it out. Again, it's like these are baby steps.
00:46:15 ◼ ► The headset is planned to be a standalone device. I remember this from a report that Mark Gorman did
00:46:20 ◼ ► a while ago, that there were initial ideas to have it whilst they communicate to some kind of
00:46:24 ◼ ► processing unit, but Johnny Ive was like, "No way." And Johnny Ive made the right move,
00:46:34 ◼ ► wireless would be better than wired, but you'll lose a lot if you do a wireless, and wired is
00:46:42 ◼ ► No, this is the right thing to do. And obviously Apple are considering an app store for their
00:46:48 ◼ ► device. Of course they are. Of course. Everything needs an app store. So I don't know about this.
00:46:58 ◼ ► So I'm intrigued what Apple will do with it. I kind of feel like some kind of 2022 timeframe
00:47:09 ◼ ► pandemic time, they could actually market it much nicer, much, much better, I think. I think
00:47:15 ◼ ► it's got a more interesting marketing story if people are at home more. And I mean, I know we
00:47:22 ◼ ► spoke about the always bet on the over, right? But the hope would be that in 2020 lockdowns might not
00:47:29 ◼ ► be as prevalent as they are now. Because I could imagine even just like, "Hey, VR FaceTime."
00:47:39 ◼ ► Yeah. I will say for myself, I'm more interested in a VR product than an AR product, because
00:47:50 ◼ ► Apple's AR glasses will be intended to be a thing I wear all the time. And I still don't know how
00:47:57 ◼ ► comfortable I am with that as a notion where with VR, I'm like, I'm in for a while, then I'm out.
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00:50:10 ◼ ► So we have another Mac report from Mark Gurman as well. He doesn't stop. No, he just keeps on
00:50:18 ◼ ► going and I like it. This time it's primarily about the MacBook Air with some additional details
00:50:23 ◼ ► just scattered in, which is, you know, I love the way that Mark Gurman writes. You know, we said
00:50:28 ◼ ► this before and we've had him on the show before as well, but like I really like when he writes a
00:50:32 ◼ ► report about one thing and then hides some details about other products in that report. I just like
00:50:38 ◼ ► it's really fun because it makes it more exciting to read and like, okay, MacBook Air, MacBook Air,
00:50:44 ◼ ► wait, you said what about the MacBook Pro? I like that about the way that he writes. So,
00:51:00 ◼ ► Right off the bat, this is like the MacBook, right? Like that's kind of, this is the Air,
00:51:10 ◼ ► right? This is like the MacBook. We always said at the time the 12 inch MacBook was really the
00:51:14 ◼ ► MacBook Air because it was thinner and lighter than the MacBook Air. And then it's always funny
00:51:19 ◼ ► that the MacBook Air now is not that much thinner or lighter than the MacBook Pro. The MacBook Air
00:51:26 ◼ ► was always supposed to be the thinnest lightest product. And I guess this is the recommitment to
00:51:31 ◼ ► the MacBook Air again, like they've recommitted to everything else. Like actually going back and
00:51:36 ◼ ► making this the product it is meant to be. Yeah, this looks to me like, I wrote a Macworld piece
00:51:42 ◼ ► about how I thought they should just take the 12 inch MacBook and bring it back. And Mark's report
00:51:46 ◼ ► here makes me think that Apple perhaps has decided that 12 inches is just too small a screen.
00:51:53 ◼ ► Going forward as they space out the Mac OS with Big Sur and that what they want is a 13 inch screen,
00:51:59 ◼ ► but that they can still make it thinner and lighter. And if you look, if you think of it
00:52:03 ◼ ► that way and you think about how we got here with the MacBook Air, right? They killed it. Basically,
00:52:09 ◼ ► they put it on life support. It just sort of sat out there with no retina screen. They tried to sell
00:52:13 ◼ ► us a MacBook. They tried to sell us the low end, the MacBook Pro escape. People just kept buying
00:52:19 ◼ ► the MacBook Air and they finally said, all right, you're right. You want the MacBook Air, here it is.
00:52:22 ◼ ► And they released a product that is, you know, it's a MacBook Air. Like if you use the old
00:52:29 ◼ ► MacBook Air and then you picked up the retina MacBook Air in any form, you're like, oh yeah,
00:52:33 ◼ ► this is the same computer. This report suggests to me that behind that there's a redesign.
00:52:41 ◼ ► That they came out with an Air that was, they put together a retina MacBook Air that looked more
00:52:46 ◼ ► or less like the old MacBook Air, but that this is the new Airier MacBook Air, right? Like that this
00:52:53 ◼ ► is one that doesn't necessarily look exactly like the old classic model, but is going to do a lot of
00:53:00 ◼ ► the same things that the 12 inch MacBook tried to do in terms of being thinner and lighter. And maybe
00:53:04 ◼ ► the 12 inch MacBook design just didn't work with the new keyboard that they've settled on
00:53:12 ◼ ► Their MagSafe plans, lots of things it could be, but the need for an Airier MacBook Air remained.
00:53:22 ◼ ► And so this is fascinating that they apparently are working on this idea of how do we take the
00:53:30 ◼ ► existing Air, which is very thin and light, but as my Macworld article pointed out, it's still like
00:53:35 ◼ ► eight tenths of a pound heavier than the 12 inch MacBook. Like there's room to make a smaller
00:53:39 ◼ ► MacBook Air. There really is a smaller and lighter MacBook Air. And I guess they're going there.
00:53:43 ◼ ► However, Mark Herman also says that they thought about making a 15 inch model, but that's not
00:53:48 ◼ ► happening right now. And that made me laugh because I'm like, remember the big iBook that was
00:53:53 ◼ ► the same number of pixels as the small iBook? It was just the 14 inch iBook. It was just like the
00:53:57 ◼ ► large print edition of the other iBook. I chuckled when I saw this, but at the same time, consider it
00:54:05 ◼ ► just like we had the 11 and the 13 of the MacBook Air. There's no reason that somebody who wants a
00:54:11 ◼ ► bigger screen should have to buy a pro MacBook if they don't want it. It doesn't have to be
00:54:18 ◼ ► connected to price, having a bigger screen. It doesn't have to be. So I laughed at this because
00:54:24 ◼ ► a larger MacBook Air is not the thing I want in the world, but I also kind of understand how they
00:54:29 ◼ ► might want to go there or consider going there at some point, just because not everybody wants a
00:54:35 ◼ ► little laptop with a little screen and they don't necessarily need to buy a MacBook Pro to get
00:54:43 ◼ ► thing for Apple to do, to differentiate between the Air and the Pro, because right now there's
00:54:47 ◼ ► very little space between them, then this is a way to do that too. - I really like that thought of
00:54:54 ◼ ► like, the current MacBook Air is another version of a product called MacBook Air, but it isn't true
00:55:03 ◼ ► to what the MacBook Air was supposed to be. - Or events have surpassed it, right? Like the MacBook
00:55:12 ◼ ► Pro has gotten so much smaller and lighter that now they're uncomfortably close together.
00:55:18 ◼ ► - Yeah, 'cause what it is now, what the MacBook Air, the current MacBook Air is, is just Apple's
00:55:23 ◼ ► cheapest laptop. - Right, well, and it is thinner and lighter than the MacBook Pro, but like we saw
00:55:29 ◼ ► the 12-inch MacBook and we're like, that. - Exactly. - Now that was, like you said, that was the Air.
00:55:34 ◼ ► That was the true thin and light laptop. And that's what I mean when I say, having looked at
00:55:38 ◼ ► the specs of the 11-inch MacBook Air and the 13-inch MacBook Air and then the new Retina
00:55:43 ◼ ► MacBook Air, it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing.
00:55:47 ◼ ► - The new MacBook Air, there's room. There's room for it to be thinner and smaller and lighter.
00:55:54 ◼ ► There is definitely room for Apple to push in that direction. And it seems like they're going to,
00:55:59 ◼ ► which is great. - The new MacBook Air will also feature MagSafe along with a pair of USB4 ports.
00:56:06 ◼ ► And this is as a reminder, USB4 is the... - Is Thunderbolt. - Yeah, and USB-C all in one little
00:56:14 ◼ ► package. So it's like, it's those things all together. This version is expected to be a
00:56:23 ◼ ► higher-end model with the current M1 MacBook Air sticking around in the lineup. - All right, so,
00:56:29 ◼ ► all right, everybody, hold everything. Some of our speculation on this show has been about what's
00:56:36 ◼ ► Apple's chip strategy and what's Apple's Mac strategy in terms of bringing out new stuff.
00:56:42 ◼ ► And this is such a juicy little tidbit, right? Because what this is saying is, guess what?
00:56:47 ◼ ► We're going to bring a new MacBook Air in that's thinner and lighter and maybe even has a more
00:56:52 ◼ ► powerful processor. I don't know. Maybe it'll have the next generation processor. - And they're
00:56:59 ◼ ► going to leave the old M1 there, right? It's like, I'm okay with that. I think it's fascinating,
00:57:09 ◼ ► that M1 is going to stick around. But spend a little more money, you get the thinner, lighter,
00:57:15 ◼ ► faster version. That's not something they've done a lot of on the Mac side, although it's definitely
00:57:22 ◼ ► an Apple move, but it's not necessarily so much of a Mac move. But that's interesting. And I think
00:57:27 ◼ ► not entirely unexpected, the idea that the M1 computers would stick around because they're
00:57:33 ◼ ► plenty fast and they form the low end of the Apple Silicon line, and then Apple starts building
00:57:49 ◼ ► out with a new MacBook Air with a next generation processor and leave the old one in the price list.
00:57:54 ◼ ► Because honestly, even if it stays at $999, such a great deal at $999. On ATP last week,
00:58:02 ◼ ► Marco went off for a while about how great the MacBook Air is, and all I can say is cosine,
00:58:06 ◼ ► I agree completely. Even at $999, it's such a great deal. So Apple has latitude to just let it sit
00:58:13 ◼ ► there and build newer products higher up in the product line or push it down in price a little bit
00:58:21 ◼ ► and slide in a new MacBook Air to like they've got the room to do it. So I think that's what they're
00:58:28 ◼ ► doing according to Mark Gurman. That's fascinating. This is the strategy. We've wondered like what will
00:58:33 ◼ ► happen. This is the strategy. It isn't that all the Macs will get updated with all the new chips
00:58:38 ◼ ► all the time. Like there's going to be honestly kind of like the iOS devices, you can still buy
00:58:45 ◼ ► last year's and will make it a little bit cheaper. And it will have that those set of features and
00:58:50 ◼ ► that will stay as it is. And here's the M2 versions, here's the M3 versions, here's the M4
00:58:55 ◼ ► versions, and so on. This is kind of making me feel like I think they're going to have a bunch
00:59:01 ◼ ► of different letter chips. Yeah, M1X. No more like M1 might be the lower N1s and then it might be a
00:59:14 ◼ ► different set for the middle ones. Like to kind of differentiate them from each other because it
00:59:20 ◼ ► feels like to me there's going to be a lot of processors flying around here. Yeah. And I wonder
00:59:26 ◼ ► how they're going to name it because yeah maybe there will be like M1, M1X, M1T and then M2,
00:59:34 ◼ ► M2X, M2T, right? So they can kind of, you've got the low end chips, the mid-range chips,
00:59:39 ◼ ► the high end chips and then they will iterate every year. I'm not sure. Anyway, talking about
00:59:45 ◼ ► those little details. Oh by the way, this is due to be released in the second half of this year or
00:59:49 ◼ ► early 2022. So we're going to get basically a year out of the current MacBook Air before they iterate.
00:59:56 ◼ ► Right, I read that as a, you know, maybe fall or maybe it'll slide into next year. Yeah. Again,
01:00:04 ◼ ► all of these rumors from Mark suggest it's second half of the year with a next generation Apple
01:00:09 ◼ ► Silicon chip, which to me reads that if we get any new Macs in the first half of this year they're
01:00:14 ◼ ► probably M1s. Provided that some of the things have been fixed. I don't know. I don't know. I'm
01:00:23 ◼ ► not entirely convinced that there will be any new Macs in the first half of this year if Mark's
01:00:29 ◼ ► reports are accurate, right? Because he's talked a lot about next generation chips and the implication
01:00:39 ◼ ► strong implication that it's sort of a June WWDC thing maybe. I don't know. It would be interesting
01:00:48 ◼ ► if those, honestly the M1 Macs made such a big splash that if there was ever a year where Apple
01:00:52 ◼ ► could afford to just not update anything until June or July it's this year. But I still would
01:00:58 ◼ ► love something sooner than that. So the next line of MacBook Pros that we spoke about last week
01:01:03 ◼ ► will gain an SD card slot as one of their I/O expansions. So we spoke about having more ports.
01:01:10 ◼ ► SD card. One of those ports. Make a lot of people happy. I think that also this is one of those
01:01:17 ◼ ► things where it makes more people happy than people that use it. Sure. People love having
01:01:25 ◼ ► the freedom, the ability, the possibility of an upgrade or of using a particular kind of port and
01:01:31 ◼ ► then they don't necessarily but they like to know that they could in a pinch. And I've been in that
01:01:36 ◼ ► situation where I've had an SD card and I'm like, "What? Do I? Anybody have an adapter?" Because I
01:01:41 ◼ ► just don't have an adapter around and the laptops don't have it. And I do you, for the record, I use
01:01:48 ◼ ► the SD card reader on the back of my iMac every week. Apple has also apparently been developing
01:01:55 ◼ ► the underlying support for cellular Macs but it's unknown when this will become an option.
01:02:01 ◼ ► I love this report because I think what it suggests is that cellular Macs are going to happen.
01:02:07 ◼ ► My feeling all along has been that cellular Macs aren't going to happen now that they bought Intel
01:02:15 ◼ ► cellular radio business. They're going to make 5G chips integrated, perhaps even integrated in Apple
01:02:22 ◼ ► Silicon, but they're going to make their own Apple 5G chips. And at that point, they're going to say,
01:02:27 ◼ ► "Well, we should put this in the Mac." And so they're laying the groundwork here. This feels
01:02:30 ◼ ► very much like a report where the OS group is now working on cellular control stuff because there
01:02:36 ◼ ► are lots of issues where ideally you want to be able to do what you do on iOS where you can say,
01:02:40 ◼ ► "Don't allow cellular," or "Do allow cellular," or be able to control when data gets transferred
01:02:47 ◼ ► because unless you've got an unlimited plan. And even if you have an unlimited plan, if you've got
01:02:51 ◼ ► a narrow pipe and you want certain kinds of data to go through, there's nothing worse than being
01:02:56 ◼ ► somewhere and being like, "Why can't I do this?" And the answer is, "Well, because you're uploading
01:03:00 ◼ ► photos in the background." It's like, "I don't want to do that now on the cellular network,
01:03:05 ◼ ► even if you have unlimited data, because it slows down your network." So they got to build
01:03:09 ◼ ► some software, ideally software infrastructure for that. And it sounds like that's happening,
01:03:15 ◼ ► but his source is basically like, "Well, we're doing this. Well, when is that going to happen?"
01:03:19 ◼ ► And there's no hardware source to say, "Well, the plan is we're going to put that hardware in on X
01:03:24 ◼ ► date." But it is encouraging that they're actually working on it, right? Because you can't put
01:03:30 ◼ ► cellular modems in Macs without laying that groundwork. So I'm very excited that they're
01:03:34 ◼ ► laying the groundwork. - I completely agree with you that we won't get these until whenever it is
01:03:39 ◼ ► Apple does make their own modems, which we know they're doing, right? It's one of those things,
01:03:44 ◼ ► it's not even a rumor. They bought Intel's business. You wouldn't do that, right? Like,
01:03:49 ◼ ► "Oh, we just feel sorry for these people." No, they're doing it. Because as well, they don't
01:03:55 ◼ ► get on for a whole Qualcomm. - That's right. - So yeah, this will happen when that happens. And it's
01:04:03 ◼ ► not going to happen before, I don't think. Apple has apparently also been doing work for Face ID
01:04:10 ◼ ► on their new Macs and was hoping for this to ship in the iMac redesign, but is apparently now
01:04:16 ◼ ► unlikely to happen this time around. - So that's disappointing. - Very. - This is that one step
01:04:27 ◼ ► forward, one step back kind of thing from Mark Gurman, where it's like, they are working on
01:04:30 ◼ ► Face ID for the Mac, but not now. You're not going to get it now. Because the new iMac with a new
01:04:36 ◼ ► redesigned iMac hardware would be the perfect time to put in all those sensors for Face ID.
01:04:43 ◼ ► And it sounds like he's basically saying, "Well, they're working on it, but it's not ready for
01:04:50 ◼ ► now." And that's too bad, because if there's ever a product that could use Face ID, it's the iMac.
01:04:59 ◼ ► - More than anything. - Well, right, because they can't put a Touch ID sensor. It doesn't have a
01:05:06 ◼ ► keyboard attached. You have to add a keyboard wired or wireless. And so it's a much more
01:05:12 ◼ ► complicated thing than just putting a camera on the top of that thing. So that's disappointing.
01:05:16 ◼ ► - So that's what we have for now. - So, yeah, Mark Gurman provides. He provides excitement,
01:05:25 ◼ ► and he also crushes dreams. These are things that happen. But yeah, his track record is very good.
01:05:31 ◼ ► So, you know, as always, when we talk about these reports, I believe that Mark Gurman's sources are
01:05:37 ◼ ► very good. That said, they don't know everything. They only see little portions of it. And things
01:05:46 ◼ ► change. So just because right now, as we're talking, some people at Apple say that this is
01:05:53 ◼ ► going to happen doesn't necessarily mean it will. Decisions get made all the time, stuff gets pulled
01:05:59 ◼ ► out. You know, things get reversed. So we'll see. Remember, once Apple wasn't making any new
01:06:06 ◼ ► displays, they were out of the display business, and then they made the Pro Display XDR and are
01:06:10 ◼ ► apparently making another display too. So things do change. - There isn't huge news as such, but
01:06:21 ◼ ► - Yeah, and LG stock has gone in and out because they keep doing sort of stealth updates to some
01:06:27 ◼ ► of their monitors, right? On ATP, Marco talked about that, that there are three or four different
01:06:31 ◼ ► versions of one of their displays. Like they, unclear whether that means anything. I think that
01:06:38 ◼ ► Mark Gurman's report was that that external display was, there was in one of the Slacks
01:06:43 ◼ ► or Discords that I'm in, somebody was like, "Oh, I've got to, I'm holding out for that every day.
01:06:47 ◼ ► I wake up and I'm hoping that that display gets announced." And like, he made it sound like they're
01:06:52 ◼ ► starting work on it. So I wouldn't expect it until like the end of the year, if then. So please do
01:06:57 ◼ ► not, you know, go to bed every night hoping you'll wake up with news of an Apple display. I think it's
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01:07:49 ◼ ► like to make content that is evergreen versus content that is weekly, like this show. - Yeah,
01:07:55 ◼ ► I explained the incomparable to Myke and he got very disturbed. - We got deep. We already
01:08:00 ◼ ► recorded it. This is, we're lifting the curtain on the curtain lifting. Sometimes you record Upgrade
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01:08:16 ◼ ► supporting us in this show, which we thoroughly appreciate. That is getupgradeplus.com. Thank you
01:08:22 ◼ ► so much. - Get it. - Let's do some #askupgrade questions to finish out today's show. First comes
01:08:29 ◼ ► from Eli. Do you think that Apple may be releasing new designs of peripherals along with the new
01:08:35 ◼ ► designs of Macs this year? The Magic Mouse launched with the first unibody iMac in 2009.
01:08:43 ◼ ► But even if we did, how much change could we really see? - Well, I hadn't thought of it. This is a
01:08:49 ◼ ► really good question. I feel like it's a, it is a good question to ask. Will Apple modify the
01:08:56 ◼ ► peripherals? It's a good time for them to do it. Magic Trackpad 2, Magic Trackpad 2 is pretty good.
01:09:03 ◼ ► I'm not quite sure what they could do there, although they could, I've been thinking about how
01:09:07 ◼ ► they have all of their, you know, 3D Touch, Force Touch stuff. And I find it funny that in all the
01:09:14 ◼ ► conversations people have had about, like, how these rumors about new laptops with MagSafe and
01:09:20 ◼ ► with more ports and having a new Apple display and all these things, it feels very much like what all
01:09:25 ◼ ► the computer nerds wanted is going to be given to them. And Apple's reverting about a bunch of
01:09:30 ◼ ► things that we hated about their computers for a while. Nobody has talked about Force Touch, 3D
01:09:36 ◼ ► Touch, which is an example where Apple rolled that out, like the touch bar, and we're like, "Oh, this
01:09:41 ◼ ► is really going to be big." And then it just sort of was met with no enthusiasm and they've started
01:09:45 ◼ ► backing away from it. Anyway, the Magic Trackpad 2 has support for that. And I wonder if they could
01:09:54 ◼ ► - Well, they could. I actually don't mind the real, the fake click. It feels real to me.
01:09:59 ◼ ► I did think though that you could also, you know, there's some wacky things you could do there. You
01:10:03 ◼ ► put Apple Pencil on it. I don't know. There's things that they could do there, but the mouse
01:10:08 ◼ ► is a really great example where people have been making hay about that charger on the bottom of it
01:10:12 ◼ ► for so long now that a redesigned mouse that didn't charge on the bottom would probably be worth doing.
01:10:19 ◼ ► The people who've been working, it's not as if the people who work on input devices at Apple are not
01:10:26 ◼ ► busy because they are like, they just did the Magic Keyboard for iPad and they did the Magic Keyboard
01:10:33 ◼ ► for the laptops. Those are big. Those are actually pretty big jobs that they did. But is there
01:10:40 ◼ ► something coming after that? It would be a good time for Apple to refresh its input devices, Eli.
01:10:53 ◼ ► - Sure. That would be great. If they could do something like that, that would be, yeah,
01:10:58 ◼ ► a Magic Keyboard with Touch ID. Sure. - Because wired keyboards, I use them all the time now.
01:11:03 ◼ ► It's not much of a problem. It really isn't. - No, my keyboard is wired because basically I'm
01:11:10 ◼ ► sitting at my desk and I can wire it. So why not? Then I don't have to charge it. It's fine.
01:11:16 ◼ ► My trackpad is also wired. It doesn't have to be, but I don't have to charge it if it's always
01:11:22 ◼ ► plugged in. So yeah, it's easier. - Similar question, actually, a follow-on question from
01:11:27 ◼ ► Ryan who asks, "Could you imagine a future Apple mouse with MagSafe charging?" - I don't know how
01:11:33 ◼ ► that would work, but maybe? I don't know. - What they should do is, like, there's a couple companies
01:11:39 ◼ ► that would do this, Qi or some kind of wireless charging mouse mat. Constant power to the mouse.
01:11:46 ◼ ► - Oh, interesting. Interesting. What do you think, you know, this rumor about MagSafe on the laptops
01:11:53 ◼ ► being the more, like, the little pill size? If they do that, do you think that they might
01:11:59 ◼ ► spread that elsewhere? Do you think that that might pop up on peripherals? Do you think that that might be...
01:12:07 ◼ ► They wouldn't put two MagSafes on the iPhone, would they? One on the bottom and one on the back.
01:12:13 ◼ ► For that portless iPhone. - I would like that because then I could still use my pop socket.
01:12:21 ◼ ► I hadn't thought of that until now. - Well, and it's not induction, right? It's the MagSafe as described,
01:12:26 ◼ ► which is like the MagSafe that we used to have, is not an induction charge. It's a direct connect
01:12:31 ◼ ► guided by magnets, and so it's a much more efficient, fast charge. - I would love that, honestly,
01:12:41 ◼ ► because then I wouldn't have to use the MagSafe Puck style charging. I could imagine, you know,
01:12:48 ◼ ► you could put that on a trackpad and a mouse really easily as well, and then that, you know,
01:12:54 ◼ ► if we're talking about peripherals, that could be how you charge peripherals. - The reason, I mean, I just,
01:13:00 ◼ ► the thought just occurred to me that one way you could get rid of lightning is with MagSafe. If you
01:13:05 ◼ ► built a new MagSafe that was, you know, unlike people who remember the old MagSafe, it was, like,
01:13:11 ◼ ► hardwired into the brick, and I think everybody's hoping that a new MagSafe Apple does is just
01:13:18 ◼ ► USB-C on one end and the MagSafe connector, and you can buy different lengths and different kinds of
01:13:23 ◼ ► MagSafe connectors, ideally, and it could even be a licensed product that they could work with
01:13:35 ◼ ► that charge via lightning and instead use MagSafe to make that connection, and then just
01:13:41 ◼ ► everything becomes MagSafe, which is Apple-prioritary, I get it, but so is lightning, and if you're not
01:13:46 ◼ ► going to go to USB-C, maybe that would be a nice thing to do. I don't know. - Could they do data?
01:13:51 ◼ ► - They could, if they wanted to, right? They could put all, in fact, some of these MagSafe adapters,
01:14:05 ◼ ► through the little thing that you pop, you pop the thing in the USB-C port, and then you have a little
01:14:09 ◼ ► a little thing that snaps on, but you can do data through those. - And I guess it's not a lot, but the
01:14:14 ◼ ► magic trackpad, sorry, the magic keyboard for with Trackpad for iPad Pro, it does keyboard input.
01:14:22 ◼ ► I know you can't do any data through the USB-C port that they have on there, but there's some data
01:14:26 ◼ ► transfer going on there. - Yeah, that's using smart connector. - Yeah, but that's magnetic, right?
01:14:32 ◼ ► Like, it's, you know, it's got that going on, so. - A new MagSafe could very definitely be
01:14:39 ◼ ► data, and in fact, I would be surprised if it isn't. I would be surprised if it isn't essentially
01:14:44 ◼ ► a USB-C port, because that allows Apple to do things like make a MagSafe connector for a monitor
01:14:50 ◼ ► and data passes through it. It allows them to sell MagSafe, like I said, if they do a licensed
01:14:56 ◼ ► program for MagSafe, like they do with Lightning, they could have hubs that have, you know, you can
01:15:03 ◼ ► attach to through that MagSafe port. It basically makes the MagSafe port another port on the
01:15:07 ◼ ► laptop, which could be really interesting. So I don't know, maybe not, but it's exciting to think
01:15:13 ◼ ► about it. - I have another two-part question from Jack. - Okay. - Do you use your Echo Show as a digital
01:15:20 ◼ ► photo frame? - Yes, because I set up the new Echo Show, and part of the setup was, would you like to
01:15:28 ◼ ► put pictures on it that rotate? You can have up to, I don't know, what, five, ten, something like that.
01:15:34 ◼ ► And the app actually said, let me pick photos from my photo library and upload them. So I pick those
01:15:42 ◼ ► photos and those photos just update. I've never gone back to update them, although I suppose I
01:15:47 ◼ ► will at some point. I'll get tired of looking at them. But that's what I do. There's no, you know,
01:15:54 ◼ ► he asks if there's a good way to automate this, and my understanding is no, and if there is, I
01:15:58 ◼ ► haven't even bothered to look. It's not that important, honestly. So I don't have an answer here.
01:16:04 ◼ ► I just, I anticipate that every so often I'll do it. - Our setup is different. I don't know how you set
01:16:10 ◼ ► it up, but my Echo Show is connected to my Amazon Photos account, and we have hundreds of images
01:16:19 ◼ ► that we've put into our Amazon Photos account, and then the Echo Show just cycles through those? - Yeah,
01:16:25 ◼ ► I don't have that. I don't have that, and I didn't want them to cycle through a large number of,
01:16:30 ◼ ► like, random photos I've taken. So I picked, like, I actually went to my favorites in my photos
01:16:35 ◼ ► library and picked five photos or something and put them in there, and that's what I do. So you
01:16:39 ◼ ► can do either one. You don't have to be, they seem to have made it that you don't have to be an Amazon
01:16:44 ◼ ► Photos ecosystem household in order to get pictures on your Echo Show, which I appreciate because I'm
01:16:50 ◼ ► not. - Yeah, I mean, we're not, but I have Amazon Prime, so I have Amazon Photos. - Yeah, I do too.
01:16:57 ◼ ► I just downloaded the Photos app, picked a bunch of images from my phone, and uploaded them. - Yeah,
01:17:01 ◼ ► I guess I could chuck all my favorites on Amazon Photos, and then it would use those. Maybe I'll do
01:17:06 ◼ ► that sometime. - Maybe there's a way to automate it. If you know, you can send it in. We can put
01:17:10 ◼ ► it in follow-ups. - It's just the, yeah, this is the, you've reached the level of how much effort
01:17:15 ◼ ► I was willing to put into this is that I was willing to follow the setup instructions to pick
01:17:20 ◼ ► some photos, and then I haven't done a single thing with it since. It's nice having those photos there,
01:17:25 ◼ ► though. I have to say, I do enjoy looking at the Echo and seeing pictures of my family. That's fun.
01:17:30 ◼ ► - And finally, Tom asks, on episode three, on last week's episode, 335, you were talking about how
01:17:38 ◼ ► the iMac Pro could have been in 20 max of 2020 if it was further in the future, if 20 max was 20,
01:17:44 ◼ ► well, I guess it was 30 max, 20, 30, right? You made the analogy to the Hall of Fame having a waiting
01:17:50 ◼ ► period, right? So if you're gonna put something in a Hall of Fame, you have to get a bit of distance
01:17:54 ◼ ► from it so you can see its impact. Have you considered inducting the 20 max list into a six
01:18:00 ◼ ► colors max of fame, where you could then potentially induct another Mac every year? - Well, this is a
01:18:13 ◼ ► I have considered at some point writing more of those in some form. What form it takes, I have
01:18:22 ◼ ► not considered. I thought maybe that would be a thing that I could do five more, five years from
01:18:26 ◼ ► now or something like that. The idea of inducting a new one every year, writing a new essay every
01:18:32 ◼ ► year, I could do that. I worry that it's gonna not have a whole lot of impact if it's just once a
01:18:38 ◼ ► year an essay appears instead of it being like a thing, a project where there's a rollout. But it's
01:18:45 ◼ ► not a bad idea. If I'm still writing about max five, 10 years from now, which I anticipate that
01:18:53 ◼ ► I will be if everything works out okay, then I anticipate revisiting and telling some other
01:19:00 ◼ ► stories about other max along the way. But I don't have any plans beyond that. And this is an
01:19:05 ◼ ► interesting idea. It's probably not one I would go for, but I do like the idea of just inducting
01:19:11 ◼ ► things into the hall of fame or shame, depending. I'm looking at you, Mac portable. - I'm trying to
01:19:17 ◼ ► think of notoriety, some kind of phrase, like the waiting room of notoriety. - Yeah, the notable
01:19:27 ◼ ► hallway. - The greenhouse of notoriety. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of
01:19:36 ◼ ► Upgrade. If you have a #AskUpgrade question you would like to hear answered on the show,
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01:19:54 ◼ ► up and learn more. Thank you to AirBuddy and Fitbod for their support of this week's episode.
01:20:00 ◼ ► If you want to find Jason online, go to sixcolors.com, make sure you subscribe to the RSS
01:20:06 ◼ ► feed because you're going to find out all of that hot information about quarterly earnings reports.
01:20:12 ◼ ► Jason does the best reporting about the quarterly earnings reports that you're going to find.
01:20:17 ◼ ► And luckily he was reminded that it was happening with a couple of days notice so he can prepare the
01:20:22 ◼ ► charts as they say. Jason is also @jsnell on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L. Jason hosts many shows here
01:20:29 ◼ ► at Relay FM and at The Incomparable as well. I am @imike_on Twitter and I also host many shows here
01:20:43 ◼ ► to your library to listen to. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell.