322: Aux In, Cows Out

0:00:00[Music]

0:00:08From Real AFM, this is Upgrade episode 322. Today's show is brought to you by Text Expander from SMILE,

0:00:16ExpressVPN and Pingdom. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell.

0:00:23Hello Myke Hurley. This is my, I don't know why the vocal embodiment of this is an episode full

0:00:31of follow-up and catch-up came out that way, but that was what I was going for when I said that.

0:00:35I think it's because you've been watching Taskmaster because that was a very Alex

0:00:38Morgan kind of intro, was it? Little Jason Snell. Yeah, that's it.

0:00:44Yep, we'll talk about that at some point and if you have no idea what I'm doing,

0:00:47go and watch Taskmaster. Yeah. If you're in the US, it's on YouTube. If you're in the UK,

0:00:51you can get it in UK TV Play for free. Super awesome. It's one of my favorite finds of the

0:00:58entire year, but through Jason Snell, of course, and Jason's recommendation. It's just a wonderful,

0:01:03wonderful fun TV show. I have a #SnellTalk question for you from Hunter. Jason, is there

0:01:09an iPhone color that you wish Apple would have announced last week? Well, blue is my favorite

0:01:16and so I'm very happy that there are many blues and iPhones. It makes me very happy.

0:01:21So what's left? Orange. I love that coral iPhone XR. An orange iPhone would be, I guess,

0:01:32the one that they could have added to the lineup that would have made me happy.

0:01:35I actually agree. I knew you were going to say orange and orange was also what I wanted too.

0:01:40I would love a nice orange phone, but like a good orange, like a really good orange.

0:01:44Yeah. I mean, this is the thing of like, actually, I wouldn't mind it if Apple stopped using all the

0:01:51materials that they use and like, you know, don't give me good colors in the pro line.

0:01:57They like that that we get in the regular line. Like they don't have to look like they're made

0:02:02of metal or whatever it is you do, right? Like let's shake it up a bit, but nevertheless.

0:02:07So today is an episode full of catch up because I think unlike, this feels like unlike most

0:02:15iPhone events, there was a lot of information that came out in the days after. And I wanted to

0:02:22go through it. I think this is akin to one of our posts, like the week after WWDC kind of episodes,

0:02:28where so much happened like during the event and so much was learned afterward that we spend the

0:02:34next week kind of like following up all the things that happened the previous week. And that feels

0:02:41like that's what we need to do this time. And I think this came out in the last episode,

0:02:44especially for me. I was very confused and found it all very frustrating that there was a bunch of

0:02:48information that I knew was out there, but I couldn't disseminate quick enough for the show.

0:02:54But now we've been able to do that and we will provide a service to you, the listener, to give

0:02:58you all of the information. But even in an episode full of follow-up, we still have a distinct

0:03:04follow-up section, which we will now begin. PopSockets will be making MagSafe compatible

0:03:09PopSockets in the future. This was something that came out very quickly. This is obviously taking

0:03:15advantage of the new MagSafe system. I'm very intrigued to see what they do here. I can't

0:03:21imagine a PopSocket like how PopSockets currently work, working on this, but I have yet myself to be

0:03:28able to understand how strong that magnet is. But I'm just pleased that they are exploring it

0:03:34for some time in the future because that's something that I want.

0:03:38T-Mobile and Sprint now have equal iPhone pricing with Verizon and AT&T. So you may remember,

0:03:46we were talking about it was a $30 difference, I think, for the phone there, right?

0:03:49Yeah, $30. And it was just Verizon and AT&T when they posted the page. But on Friday,

0:03:57when iPhone pre-orders began, they equalized—this is for the 12 and the 12 mini—they equalized with

0:04:04AT&T and Verizon, meaning that if you're in the U.S. and on one of the four major carriers,

0:04:10you get that price that ends in a 99. However, if you want an unlocked SIM-free phone, for example,

0:04:19if you're using an alternate carrier, guess what? You have to pay a price that ends in a 29,

0:04:26if you're buying a 12 or 12 mini. So because this is the—we'll talk about iPhone pricing a lot more

0:04:32later, but this is just the recognition that sometimes a 699 phone is actually a 729 phone.

0:04:40MATT: Yeah, and I don't know why there was ever a disparity. It doesn't make sense to me.

0:04:47Like, I don't know why these—like, I can't imagine that these networks would say, "No,

0:04:53we don't want to do—" Like, it's just weird to me. Like, I don't get it. But nevertheless.

0:04:57iPad Air pre-orders are finally open, so when the iPhone 12 and 12 Pro went on pre-order on Friday,

0:05:05the iPad Air also mysteriously went to pre-order as well. This was the device announced in the

0:05:13September event, and I believe it comes out on Friday this week.

0:05:19So, yep, that's it. This is the product that was unveiled at its own event in—I mean, shared,

0:05:27but its own event in September will be taken—the pre-orders were taken, and the shipping will take

0:05:33place, same time as the October event products, the 12 and 12 Pro. Weird. But that's 2020. Apple

0:05:43announced the iPad Air last month but wants it to ship alongside its fellow A14-bearing products,

0:05:51the 12 and the 12 Pro. So, we'll see that iPad Air on Friday.

0:05:54>> So, my expectation would be that we will see two rounds of reviews drop this week,

0:06:01if Apple keep to the usual schedules. I don't know if anything will change here. I mean,

0:06:07obviously, this is the first time that Apple have, I guess, seeded review units of iPhones

0:06:13without there ever being in-person briefings. So, I'm intrigued to see if and how it changes.

0:06:21>> Right. But that's happened with other products. I mean, that's happened with other products, too.

0:06:24>> Yeah, but the iPhone is a different beast. I could imagine—I don't know. I really do not

0:06:28know the answer to this question. But I could imagine two embargoes this week, like one for

0:06:35unboxing and first looks and one for reviews. I don't know.

0:06:38>> Well, they've done that before, and they could do that again. I think I've seen Apple adapt this

0:06:47year, and I've had multiple examples of Apple shipping me a product, a piece of hardware,

0:06:57for a review. In the old days, they probably would have insisted on an in-person briefing,

0:07:04but not always. Sometimes that doesn't happen. You're right, not for the iPhone, but the iPhone

0:07:09is different. But anyway, it's not that far off the playbook. Like, that iMac that came out,

0:07:17I mean, I literally was told, "We have a hardware announcement. You will be receiving the hardware.

0:07:23Essentially, don't open the box until we talk to you." So, they have been changing their thing.

0:07:30So, I imagine that all of the—and I'm not one of these people—but that all the iPhone 12

0:07:35reviewers who are in that first wave of embargo drops will have had phones since last week

0:07:43sometime, and will be writing about them and doing their videos and all those things later on this

0:07:49week. >> Okay. I mean, that would make sense based on the way that things have gone in the past. But

0:07:56it's just, you know, and I think it's not wild to wonder if things will be the same this time around.

0:08:03>> You know, the one that made me laugh was Becky Worley, who used to work at Tech TV. I remember

0:08:10her from back when she was a producer on Call for Help. She is the tech correspondent for

0:08:17Good Morning America on the ABC network here in the U.S. And she had iPhone 12 and 12 Pro

0:08:25units to show on TV last week. >> I saw that.

0:08:29>> Which I think is really interesting, right? Because it's like, well, nobody

0:08:32who's got that stuff can admit that they have it. But for TV, they're like, "Yeah, you can,

0:08:37you know, you can show them. Don't talk about using them, but just you can show them. We'll

0:08:41let you show them very specifically to her." And that makes me laugh. But they're trying stuff.

0:08:46They're trying different stuff. Good for them. >> Yeah, that was definitely different. I noticed

0:08:49she had the wallet. There's a little video. I'll put a link in the show. She had the wallet. And it

0:08:53was funny because she didn't attach it properly. She's like presenting and it was kind of like

0:09:01skew with. This is kind of like a funny thing where it's like, you know, someone at Apple's

0:09:05like, "Ah, God, no." Right? Like it's the first time anyone's ever seen the wallet attached to

0:09:10the phone. And she just like, she ended up moving it and doing it correctly. But it was just like

0:09:15one of those fun little things. And also I want to give a shout out, follow out to Federico

0:09:19Vitticci's iOS 14 review. It is now out. I am multiple chapters in and I'm already still

0:09:27learning things and getting just as much value out of Federico's incredible work as always. If

0:09:31you have not checked it out and you have, even a passing interest in iOS and iPadOS is worth going

0:09:37and perusing. Even if you just jump around to your favorite chapters, Federico has done a fantastic

0:09:42job as always. So I urge the gradients to go check it out. >> So good. >> Some upstream headlines.

0:09:48Jason, this is all Apple TV related today. >> Lots of stuff happening. Yeah. >> Bruce Springsteen has

0:09:55a documentary coming to Apple TV+ in October. It is a behind the scenes of the first performance of

0:10:04Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band in 35 years. It was a live performance that they did

0:10:09and they made a documentary about it. And that's going to be on Apple TV+. >> Yeah. I think that's

0:10:15later this week because he's got a, they're dropping an album and then there's this Apple TV+

0:10:20thing that goes along with it. It's all part of the rollout. >> And it actually ties in because

0:10:24now Apple are doing a kind of a celebration of this on the brand new Apple Music TV, which was

0:10:30announced today. >> Yeah. Why didn't they shorten that to Apple MTV? Oh, they can't. But it is. >> I

0:10:36want my Apple MTV. >> But I grew up in the 80s. It's MTV. Like they, the classic MTV, they are

0:10:45streaming a live video channel that is music videos and other stuff like that live, just

0:10:55streaming. Not on demand music videos. This is, think of that Beats, Beats One or whatever it's

0:11:00called now, Apple Radio One. This is that for TV, except it's just music videos. >> I don't get this.

0:11:07>> Interviews and stuff. >> I don't get it. >> It's an interesting idea. >> US only at the moment.

0:11:11It's available in Apple Music on the, on the app and on the Apple TV. A quote to Variety, Apple

0:11:17gave this exclusive to Variety. It says, "Exclusive new music videos and premieres, special curated

0:11:23music video blocks and live shows and events as well as chart countdowns and guests." So there's

0:11:29some stuff in there that makes sense to me. Live shows, events, chart countdowns even. But you've

0:11:36got to assume that this kind of content is more focused towards a youth audience, right? Like

0:11:42that's new music tends to be consumed by the young. Why would anybody put this on to see what

0:11:53music videos are on when they can just go to YouTube and watch whatever they want? >> I don't

0:11:58know. >> I don't get this. This is like the Beats One model again. >> Why would anybody do Beats One,

0:12:04right? Why would anybody do that when they can just choose what music they want to play on demand

0:12:08and play it? I don't know. >> Yeah, but I'm still not convinced that the let's listen to music part

0:12:13of Beats One has worked. What worked with Beats One is the radio style shows that they have done

0:12:20with notable individuals. >> Well, Myke, you've just described the evolution of MTV. >> Yeah. >> Which

0:12:27is that MTV started as a random assortment of music videos and very quickly became shows

0:12:36that were shows of music videos. And then it was sort of shows about musical genres. And then it

0:12:43was shows that appeal to the same people who like music videos. And ultimately, after about 15 years,

0:12:49literally just shows, just reality shows. But that was the evolution is I could turn on MTV. And

0:12:58here's an admission. When I was a kid, I didn't have cable. So I, until I was a freshman in high

0:13:02school, I never, I only saw MTV as recorded on videotape by friends. >> So you wanted your MTV,

0:13:09then? >> I totally wanted my MTV and I didn't get it. And there were alternate ways to watch music

0:13:14videos, but they were so sad. NBC had an hour on a Friday night called Friday Night Videos where they

0:13:20just played music videos. And somebody like me who only had an antenna that was like, "I can see the

0:13:24music videos now." And I distinctly remember what videos they played actually. Amazing. So MTV,

0:13:33you'd flip it on and it might be Michael Jackson. It might be Madonna. It might be Chicago. It might

0:13:41be Rush. It could be it. It could be Van Halen. It could be anybody. And then if you didn't like that

0:13:48one, well, you just sit there and wait and see what happened next. And that was novel. But again,

0:13:55I think people very rapidly discovered that, "Oh, what if we made appointment television where we

0:14:01had a show that ran on Saturday that was just heavy metal and we put that on." And the people

0:14:06gravitated toward that. So I don't know. This is fascinating to me. And maybe if there's an

0:14:14audience for it, that's great. I'm not the audience for it, but that's great. I think

0:14:17it's interesting that Apple is dabbling in live, in streaming channels that are 24/7. I think that's

0:14:26a cool idea. I think I mentioned this about Peacock. Peacock has a bunch of channels and

0:14:33the channels are literally just stuff that's on Peacock, but they just play continually.

0:14:39I think there is something in that. I think there is something in... I think Netflix has tried to do

0:14:47this with the idea of, can you do a random play or something? It's like, is there a 30 Rock channel?

0:14:52You could watch just random episodes of 30 Rock and see what comes up. I think maybe there's

0:14:56something to that. You could do stuff like that, but this isn't that. This is just all music.

0:15:03That exists. And I clicked play on it today before the show and the music video came up and I was

0:15:09like, not interested. And then I closed it. And that was my entire experience with Apple.

0:15:14I think what I like about this announcement, the thing that I do like about it, I think is it

0:15:19highlights that there is autonomy of some description inside of the Apple Music Group.

0:15:27Because I don't think Apple Music TV aligns with Apple's current streaming services direction.

0:15:38It feels like an offshoot. You can definitely draw some lines, some red string to how it makes sense,

0:15:45but it really is kind of out of left field, even the way they announced it, just like randomly on

0:15:50a Monday to variety. It feels very much like something that that group wanted to do and they've

0:15:58been able to go and do it. And I think I kind of like that because that's how good things are found.

0:16:04I think I would also say this feels a little bit like an industry deal. A little bit where I think

0:16:15some of the entertainment products that Apple comes out with are not necessarily motivated by

0:16:22what we would consider classic Apple, let's create a product knowing what people want.

0:16:29This smells to me like a product that was created because of some deal or relationship or something

0:16:39that is being negotiated by Apple with music companies. Maybe even a condition of them getting

0:16:49access to certain video content for Apple Music. That this was either invented by Apple as a

0:16:57vehicle for that stuff or suggested to Apple by the music industry as something they wanted.

0:17:03I don't know. That's just my... I could be wrong. And it could be that somebody inside Apple

0:17:07can say, "Oh no, there's an audience for this and it's going to be successful and I'll tell you why."

0:17:12And I'd love to hear that. But my gut feeling is that this is probably more about a larger deal,

0:17:20a larger relationship between entertainment companies and Apple. And by having this,

0:17:26Apple unlocks things that it actually wants and that it thinks its customers want. And this is

0:17:32just an adjunct where it needs to exist because they want it to exist. So we'll give it to them,

0:17:40but what we really want is something else. I don't know.

0:17:42- The morning show was resumed filming. Even though two episodes were mostly complete,

0:17:48the show has undergone significant rewrites to reflect COVID. We mentioned this before when they

0:17:53said they'd stopped shooting. But I believe the report that I read suggests that they start

0:17:59shooting today again on season two. - Yeah. And just for people who are wondering about

0:18:06"For All Mankind," my understanding there is that they shot almost everything,

0:18:09but they had a couple episodes left to go or something like that. And I'm not sure if they've

0:18:14come back yet. I think they have. Yeah. I think that that happened already where they picked that

0:18:20stuff up. But we're going to see some interesting... Talk about a challenge for the continuity people.

0:18:23It's like, what was your hair like? Like trying to get it exactly right so that it doesn't seem

0:18:29strange from scene to scene? Like this was shot in March and this was shot in October.

0:18:32- Especially as hair and makeup stuff was a little bit more restricted on film.

0:18:36- Yeah. So there are some challenges there, but they're putting it all together.

0:18:40- Season two of "Dickinson" premieres on January 8th. This will be the first show from the original

0:18:47set to... Well, it's the first to actually have an official launch date for a second season.

0:18:53Could be the first one that actually broadcasts of a second season. And season three is

0:18:59now in development after "Consume." - I wanted to mention that I am watching "Long Way Up,"

0:19:05which we talked about here, which is the Ewan McGregor, Charlie Borman ride electric motorcycles

0:19:11from the tip of South America to Los Angeles. So this is a documentary series. What's funny,

0:19:19and we talked about this, what, last week, two weeks ago, that time has no meaning anymore,

0:19:24but that they picked up the catalog content. So this has got the two previous series that they did

0:19:30like 15 years ago, "Long Way Round" and "Long Way Down" were picked up and put on Apple TV.

0:19:37And then this series was there. And I watched both of those series and I liked them. And I thought

0:19:41they got better as they went because I thought the "Long Way Down" series had a much more of a

0:19:46travelogue feel, whereas the first one, "Long Way Round" was very much like two guys deal with bad

0:19:51roads and mechanical problems on their motorcycles. And the fact that they happened to be in Mongolia

0:19:56was not as important as that their motorcycle broke or that there was a river they had to get

0:20:00across. But they were shot in 2004 and 2007. And so this is my comment. This is why I wanted to

0:20:06bring it up. To go from 2007 production values to 2020 production values, they shot this in 2019, but

0:20:14the idea that like they're not... The first series, the cameras mounted on their motorcycle helmets

0:20:24and the microphones that were in their helmets and stuff and all the stuff that they used for

0:20:29shooting, like first off, it's all standard death and it's big. And cameras are so much better now.

0:20:38If you think about 2006, 2007 to now, this show, "Long Way Up" is 4K HDR and looks amazing.

0:20:52And it looks amazing. The fact that it follows for me, like literally the next day from watching

0:21:02the episode that they shot in South Africa in 2007. Wow. I just wanted to say, I've only watched

0:21:10the first episode of "Long Way Up," but from that, I just took away from it just how much

0:21:15technology and camera technology in particular has advanced. Also in "Long Way Down," they're

0:21:21very excited to have this Nokia phone that has GPS in it because it's 2006. And they're like,

0:21:27"A GPS with a map on it. Let's check the map because Nokia is a sponsor. Let's check the map."

0:21:32And we're just laughing at it because a couple of years later, that's all gone. The iPhone.

0:21:37And suffice it to say, the Apple TV+ show, they have iPhones on their motorcycles. Shocker. I

0:21:42know. Shocker. But I just love how much the tech has improved in terms of cameras that we went from

0:21:49standard death on their previous show to 4K HDR. And not just like the big cameras that they shoot

0:21:56from the vans and stuff, but the helmet-mounted stuff is tiny and spectacularly better in terms

0:22:03of quality. It's amazing to see. So that's been fun to watch. And lastly today, Apple announced

0:22:10that they have done a new deal with Peanuts, the Charlie Brown people. Peanuts worldwide.

0:22:17They're going to be bringing some classic Charlie Brown specials to TV+ along with new originals and

0:22:23another new season of Snoopy in Space. Yeah. And it sounds like they're doing some new holiday-themed

0:22:29ones because they were always holiday specials. And they've run out of holidays for Peanuts

0:22:34specials, but they found some. They've unearthed or created some new ones. But one aspect of this

0:22:39press release that, at least the way I read it, is that even if you're not an Apple TV+ subscriber,

0:22:45on basically a day or two around the holiday, they are going to make them available for free.

0:22:52So like the "It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown" will be available October 30th through November

0:22:591st for free on Apple TV+. So everybody will be able to watch it, it sounds like.

0:23:05That's the way I read that. Yeah, I think so. And then likewise for "Charlie Brown Thanksgiving"

0:23:12and "Charlie Brown Christmas" that they will... We'll see. We will see how they do it, but it

0:23:19sounds like they're trying to... They want to be the home of Peanuts, basically. So we'll see how

0:23:23that goes. This episode is brought to you by TextExpander from our friends at Smaal. Take your time

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0:25:04to learn more about TextExpander today. That's textexpander.com/podcast. Our thanks to TextExpander

0:25:10for their support of this show and Relay FM. So one week later we have a bunch of things that we

0:25:17have learned. One of the things that we were confused about so much last time was about the way

0:25:24that the HomePod and HomePod Mini would work with TV because we thought it would be one thing, then

0:25:29we read the website which made it seem like it was another thing, and then we changed our minds.

0:25:33But here's what it is. So we were super confused about if you could use the HomePod Mini in a stereo

0:25:39pair with the TV and how that would work. So it turns out that two HomePod Minis in a stereo pair

0:25:45will do almost exactly what the original HomePod can currently do. So what I was talking about,

0:25:53the setup that I really love at home with my two HomePods, the HomePod Mini will do that. So you

0:25:58can connect a stereo pair to your TV and you get this immersive stereo experience. But we were

0:26:05talking about something that said, what was it like Apple TV HD or something like TV audio or

0:26:13something was on the website. Yeah it was a home theater or something like that. That was it. So

0:26:18we thought it was a feature that existed but it turns out it's a new feature that was only

0:26:22announced in the bullet points of the HomePod and it's HomePod only not HomePod Mini supported. And

0:26:30that is what I guessed it was actually based on that which is it's basically doing with HomePods

0:26:37what the same thing that happens with AirPods Pro which is it's taking a surround signal and decoding

0:26:46it to create spatial audio out of two HomePods but that only works on the big HomePods. It's

0:26:55basically 5.1 and 7.1 surround and Dolby Atmos content will be now played in what is called an

0:27:02immersive home theater experience when paired with an Apple TV 4K. And this is coming at some point,

0:27:08presumably this is probably all going to be of iOS 14.2. It was my expectation. I haven't seen

0:27:17it anywhere. This will be especially useful because with tvOS and iOS 14.2 you'll be able

0:27:23to finally set the HomePod as the default speaker so you no longer have to change it from no I want

0:27:30it not to be on the TV I want it to be the HomePod. You can just set it up and be like

0:27:34for this Apple TV 4K these HomePods are the speakers when anything ever plays it comes to

0:27:40here no matter what has happened on the HomePod. Because it's always annoying to me that if I

0:27:44listen to music on my HomePod the next time I go to the TV I then have to set the output again.

0:27:49So you'll be able to actually set it as no this is where the TV plays audio too. So I am extra

0:27:55excited about this for two reasons. One I can now restate what I said last time which was if you pay

0:28:02$200 and get two HomePod minis my expectation is you're going to have a great home theater setup

0:28:08if you're wanting to use an Apple TV of it. I really recommend this for people that live in

0:28:13small spaces in apartments and stuff like that. I guarantee you will get even though I have not

0:28:19used the HomePod mini I can still I think guarantee that you will get a better experience than using

0:28:25your television speakers. So that's really great because then you can also put them wherever you

0:28:31want you can put them closer to you super awesome. And then when the new HomePod comes I'm really

0:28:37excited to try out how this sounds so well not the new HomePod the new update for the HomePod

0:28:43really excited about that. Yeah I expect that you will download a beta update your HomePods to

0:28:49version that supports this and add this to your tvOS review. The connected tvOS review yeah this

0:28:54is yes and in fact I in fact I would say Myke this is such an exciting feature you might want

0:28:58to hold off on your tvOS review until this feature ships. Yeah unfortunately Apple keeps pushing back

0:29:06my tvOS review on connected and this is just another reason why I've done it. Yeah the HomePod

0:29:11mini supports Thread networking this is the first Apple product to do so. I'll give you a quote here

0:29:17from MacRumors article but I can explain it a little more detail. Thread is a low power IP

0:29:22based networking technology for connecting internet of things devices offering a secure

0:29:26mesh based system that makes it easy to build an ecosystem of devices. So this is basically like

0:29:32I think it's a separate chip in some devices but maybe some like system on a chip support it but

0:29:40it effectively allows for internet like smart devices to talk to each other in a low power way

0:29:47and is supported across lots of different device types. Yeah this is an emerging I think that it's

0:29:55in here just makes me suspect that the connected home working group is perhaps going to standardize

0:30:01on Thread as their choice. It feels likely doesn't it. But this is in fact I learned about Thread from

0:30:09when Eero sponsored our podcast. Me too I was going to say that yep that the first devices that I knew about was

0:30:15Eero's because they're not a sponsor today but they are a sponsor in general. They're beacons

0:30:21the little extenders they work with Thread networking. Yeah so this is a an interesting thing that I

0:30:27think like the U1 chip is kind of you raise an eyebrow and you say what does this mean for the

0:30:33future and maybe nothing but probably something maybe you know this I doubt they would have put

0:30:40it in here if they didn't have some sort of intent of using it down the road. Yeah I expect all of

0:30:46Apple's home products will get Thread chips going into the future. So it's just like a it is a

0:30:51standard Apple is on the standards body for Thread network for Thread so you know this is one of them.

0:30:57Like his bigger sibling the HomePod mini has a non-detachable cable but this time it ends in a

0:31:05USB-C connector and there is a 21 adapter in the box. That's nice. So there's the two things about

0:31:13this story is like one the thing that upset a lot of people and I understand why at first is that

0:31:18like the HomePod had no way of bringing AUX in right you basically you could only play audio that

0:31:24it would allow you couldn't plug anything into it right and then the cable the power cable was just

0:31:30physically attached to it but now with the the HomePod mini it ends in a USB-C which I think is

0:31:37actually a better choice for this product. I don't know if I would necessarily assume that Apple

0:31:41should do this for the main HomePod but this device seems small enough that like you might

0:31:45want to plug it into an outlet that has a USB-C connection on it rather than a like a socket and

0:31:51I've also seen some people suggest that you know like maybe you could power this thing through

0:31:56other means like a battery pack right or something like that that has a USB-C attachment to it so

0:32:03that I'm intrigued to try that out if it's only a 20 watt power adapter I would expect lots of

0:32:08things would be able to power this thing and then that could become more useful to you as a little

0:32:13speaker you could take around to different places because it's got USB-C on the end. Yeah you said

0:32:18AUX in and it sounded like Orks in. You let the Orks in. Like it's a little one does not simply

0:32:24let the Orks in. Yeah but when you say it it's like you're allowing cows or like ball into it

0:32:29right you're just letting the AUX in. Here comes the AUX. Uh-huh AUX in. AUX in cow out.

0:32:35AUX in, AUX out. There you go that's that's our fantasy bar we let the AUX in but the AUX need

0:32:44to leave. Oh I would prefer the bar that lets the Orks in but not the AUX. AUX in. EarPods and iPhone

0:32:55price they charge our prices the power adapter prices have been cut by ten dollars so that's the

0:33:02you know now that now that we have to buy them if we want them they've cut the price a little

0:33:06bit ten dollars is the amount that Apple's brought them down by. Apple have also removed

0:33:12EarPods and chargers from all phones the SE and the XR no longer have them in the boxes

0:33:19they have not amended prices so but so basically the story now is if you can buy a new phone from

0:33:28Apple you will no longer get EarPods or the power adapters in the box.

0:33:37So I had an upgrade and actually send in a picture they just bought a XR for a family member

0:33:43and it's already gone so that's how I knew about the XR because I saw Mark Gorman reporting about

0:33:50the SE no longer having it but it's also the XR it's all sold separately now. So this is all I mean

0:33:56it's very clear now that um that worldwide Apple has said we're not gonna put power plugs in and

0:34:05we're also gonna start not putting headphones in so it's all it's all settling down clear as crystal

0:34:13right Myke? Yes Jason. Except in France. Oh yes except in France this is hilarious sorry I didn't

0:34:21know we were moving on. If you live in France you still get EarPods in the box. Vive la France!

0:34:29Vive la Revolucion! Okay um there is a law in France I would just say France I love all of our

0:34:43French listeners. I love how you started this story though. Yep there is a law in France.

0:34:49Sorry I apologize greatly for what I just did. The French have lots of laws that are interesting

0:35:00um they have lots of laws around content stuff that we've spoken about before right like

0:35:05certain amounts of music tv uh all have to be in French language and I understand they are trying

0:35:11to protect French. Yeah they don't want our awful language ruining their language.

0:35:17Like how their language ruined our language. Anyway one of these interesting laws

0:35:28is that there is a law in France that every phone must be included with a hands-free kit in the box

0:35:34so that you know that was back when we used to call them hands-free kits. This is from the era

0:35:40where it was expected that when you bought a phone you would hold it up to your head all the time

0:35:44which I feel like we have left that era behind but the law remains. When you hear me say that law

0:35:51I know that everyone that's listening to this says to themselves oh yeah because of driving right

0:35:56that's what you assume the law is about that is you include a hands-free kit so people won't

0:36:01hold the phone up to their ears when they're driving right no wrong this is this law protects

0:36:07children from the risks of electromagnetic waves. The uh this is the kind of law that was written

0:36:14when what you did is you took your Nokia candy bar phone and you plugged a weird kind of wide

0:36:21clicky thing with a bunch of pins into it click and then you had a single little earpiece with

0:36:27that foam on it and you stuck that in your ear and a little clip on the microphone you that's right

0:36:33and then you said I'm hands-free look at me and that was the finest uh technology of 2005.

0:36:41So there we go so I am intrigued and I would like to know listeners out there if we have any French

0:36:49listeners that are continuing to listen to the show they haven't rage quit. I would like this

0:36:55earlier pictures of these boxes because I want to know how Apple are handling this. What is it

0:37:03like tucked in like a secret compartment down at the bottom that like or is there a special

0:37:08do they bundle it up like they do the watch like what do they do I am very intrigued about this.

0:37:14Send us your pictures like one of your French iPhones. Oh look at that sort of a reference.

0:37:19I hope you're proud of yourself. I am unduly proud. iPhone 12 pro features six gigabytes of ram

0:37:26the 12 and 12 mini have four gigabytes of ram so if you're wondering why some features especially

0:37:33in the photography department for photo and video are exclusive to the iPhone 12 pro this could be

0:37:39the technical reason that's doing that if it's not just a we want to differentiate the line reason.

0:37:45I think personally I think both are acceptable but this could be the reason like there are some like

0:37:52the the pro raw is on these phones only and that you know maybe ram helps with that and I believe

0:37:58that there is a different frame rate for the HDR video. I believe this goes up to 60 frames per

0:38:05second on the pro phones and 30 frames per second on the non-pro phones is that right Jason?

0:38:10You see the 30 and 60 or 60 and 120 but basically this could be the one of the things that

0:38:17it's 30 and 60. I think it's 30 and 60. So this could be it who knows but there is a difference

0:38:23that is one of the differences that exists for these devices 30 and 60 David is confirming in

0:38:30the discord. All leather cases for the new phones will not be available until November 6th. So this

0:38:38was an interesting thing it was just it was just the plastic and silicon cases that were available

0:38:45in the Apple store. I did find this interesting that OtterBox have cases in the Apple store

0:38:52already so obviously Apple have done some kind of deal with them to allow them to have the actual

0:38:57specifications in advance so I think that's kind of interesting. Those OtterBox cases look really

0:39:03nice too they're like a almost tie-dye Jason I think you would like them I know you like tie-dye.

0:39:08Apple have not yet announced a date for the MagSafe Duo charger which is

0:39:15funny right because it's like any any charger based solution that Apple introduces that even

0:39:24looks like it could be air power now maybe they will not talk about when it's coming out in case

0:39:29it can't but that device has not yet been announced with a date but it's just coming at some point but

0:39:37all of the leather cases will be available for purchase on or around the time that you can get

0:39:44your the other round of pre-order phones and cases and MagSafe chargers have begun arriving with

0:39:52customers so people started receiving them there's been lots of photos of them online. I'm really

0:39:58intrigued to see how exactly how these cases sit on the new phones obviously that's not a thing that

0:40:05we've been able to see yet because you know it doesn't look like there's much of a lip on the

0:40:11the case but like a little bit and I'm really intrigued to see like how far up the case the

0:40:17phone that these cases go you know like do they do they sit flush with the screens do they overhang

0:40:23the screens a little bit I'm interested to see that plus just when you look at that MagSafe

0:40:29charger it looks really weird because it looks like it's a Apple watch charger but then you see

0:40:35it next to the Apple charger and then it looks weird in proportion it's just like a funny little

0:40:39thing. Yeah well I'll be used to it though that's the that's the funny thing is in a year it'll be

0:40:45like old hat but I love this this is one of the quirks about Apple product releases that I really

0:40:49love which is that Apple is happy to send you all of these accessories in advance of you actually

0:40:56having the product. Get them out of here we don't even want them you know. Yeah this isn't nobody's

0:41:00nobody's waiting anticipating this we can just shoot these out now and not worry about it.

0:41:05I discovered when pre-ordering a phone I'll talk about it later the Apple would only let you order

0:41:12two MagSafe chargers at once and I tried to order three I think just like what two for home one for

0:41:21the studio just like kitting out everywhere with these things right and it meant that like the

0:41:26web the store kept erroring out on me which means that we have to wait a little bit longer for us

0:41:31but it was just an interesting thing Apple would only let you order two of them at one time.

0:41:35Just don't want to don't want to run out. I guess. People are going to want them. I guess.

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0:42:53show and RelayFM. Okay benchmarks for the iPhone 12 Pro have been surfacing. Geekbench scores have

0:43:03been popping up around the web as they tend to do and it's exactly what we thought right there's

0:43:07about 20 to 25 speed improvement over the A13 bionic. Yeah it's faster in line with previous

0:43:17updates. Yeah I really think that the story here is the neural engine which does obviously doesn't

0:43:25show up at the benchmarks. You know like the increase to the neural engine you know when we

0:43:30spoke to Tim Millet it really seemed like that was what he was seen to be focused on and then

0:43:36when I look at all of the stuff that they're doing with camera processing that's where it really

0:43:41feels like a lot of that time has been spent right it's making the neural stuff and the machine

0:43:46learning stuff stronger and when you look at how the chip's broken up and how Apple showed it on

0:43:50on the slides it really feels like that's where they're putting a lot of the emphasis. That was

0:43:57definitely something that came up talking to Tim Millet right a couple episodes ago that neural

0:44:06engine is a focus for them right now and it won't be forever right but there is definitely a feeling

0:44:12now that a lot of features get better when you apply machine learning to them and that they can

0:44:20gain a lot of extra like they make these incremental speed boosts with CPU and with you know multi-core

0:44:30performance and things like that and then they can add cores and their their GPU performance

0:44:35continues to improve which is great and it's not like they stopped but I definitely get the sense

0:44:40that they've looked at the neural engine stuff and said well the place where we can make enormous

0:44:45speed boosts is machine learning which is increasingly a part of the the bigger picture

0:44:51and so that seems to be where they're they're putting a lot of their effort right now in terms

0:44:56of you know it's a little like talking about Apple's finances where the CPU speed is the iPhone

0:45:04sales or CPU and GPO it's the iPhone sales like it's the most important thing and you need to have

0:45:10it but the machine learning stuff is like services revenue or wearables revenue where it's small

0:45:18but that's where the the big action is right now because that's where there's opportunity for for

0:45:25growth and who knows what the next big thing will be but I'd imagine that the software side at Apple

0:45:31is looking at everything they do and saying how could this be done better with machine learning

0:45:35like could we do this better now that we have access to the neural engine on on modern a series

0:45:42chips yeah I was thinking about machine learning the other day and neural engines and all that kind

0:45:48of stuff I know that the you know this is potentially a pie in the sky like thought but

0:45:54there is so much that can be done in these areas because our computers are so stupid

0:46:01and if companies really find ways to make them smarter like if that is a if that is an actual

0:46:08future that companies like Apple can move to like that really does seem like an interesting thing

0:46:14like you know when I say stupid it's like really Siri can only provide me with answers to basic

0:46:20things right yeah and just the way that it does them is great but if I want to explain something

0:46:28to my computer it doesn't want that right like it can't accept that and if we are able to continue

0:46:36to move towards a future where I can have an actual conversation like as simple as hey

0:46:42ahoy telephone what is my next event today and it says you have a doctor's appointment at four and

0:46:48then I say can you change that to three o'clock and they're like okay let me just check with the

0:46:53you know like actually have a backwards and forwards conversation with a computer like it's

0:46:58an assistant like that is the future that these companies try to pretend like they have given us

0:47:04now but it's not even nearly it right but like if that's something that we can move towards

0:47:11like I want that and that I guess is why companies like Apple are investing so much of their time and

0:47:18effort into these neural engines because the headroom there from where we are now to where

0:47:24we could be is maybe higher in in this form of computing than any other type of computing that

0:47:30we currently work at in the consumer space right if we're looking at speed of chips whatever like

0:47:36they're faster than we need them to be now like no one's bumping up against the top end of a lot of

0:47:41this stuff in consumer technology anymore right like graphics engines like seriously like come on

0:47:48the best graphics that you will find in a computer in in games today typically tends to be in games

0:47:55consoles well Apple's chips are as fast as Sony's right like all of this stuff is pretty standardized

0:48:02and we see these big jumps right like there are big jumps in in computer gaming hardware at the

0:48:07moment and great but like it doesn't really feel like there's much more we can go like much more

0:48:15further we can go especially when you compare it to the smarts of computing and how much room there

0:48:22still is left in that so it's just a random thought I had no I think I think it it's interesting to

0:48:28think of what the empty space is I mean talking about chip design and neural engine I mean let's

0:48:33talk about software in general one of the open fields where there it feels like there's enormous

0:48:40room for growth is in these intelligent assistants and you know you got to do them anybody who lived

0:48:47through the early days of the PC industry like computers were really bad for a really long time

0:48:51and they eventually got to be pretty good this is the case we where our assistants right now

0:48:58are varying degrees of bad but I would say they're all bad in the sense that none of them really can

0:49:04do what we want them to do which is like you imagine Google are the best right and Google do

0:49:09all of these things that are interesting but they're just gimmicks they're tricks right like

0:49:13this one that they've they've just shown which I think is clever is you can have the Google Assistant

0:49:18wait on hold for you on a call and it's detecting when there's music playing and then when a human

0:49:24comes in you get notified and you can pick up the call that's really clever but that's not like

0:49:29smart that's a thing that someone made it's not like right it got smarter so it could do that you

0:49:38know what I mean like somebody was like we want to build this feature let's take the steps to build

0:49:43that feature they're like little fun tricks and gimmicks that you can do with the powers of

0:49:48computers but it's not smart it didn't do that and I understand that the people get concerned

0:49:56about stuff like this but the computer didn't learn to do that and that's what we want to be

0:50:00moving towards. Something in Federico's review actually to go back to that is about him getting

0:50:09frustrated that there are all of these Siri intelligence offered things for like shortcuts

0:50:15and they're never anything he wants to know and I was excited about the Siri widget that basically

0:50:23is gonna put apps on your home screen but it's going to it's eight apps but it's eight apps that

0:50:30it's it thinks you might want to see right now and that that lasted like an hour on my home screen

0:50:37because it was never apps I wanted to see and so this is a case where smarter so machine learning

0:50:46has proven to be really effective in certain areas right like it is really effective at scanning all

0:50:51your photos and identifying tagging objects and stuff like that you can train it for stuff like

0:50:56that but there is this other aspect of it which is you know can it be better at it can can my device

0:51:02be better at intuiting what I want and what I'm trying to do and can our voice assistants be

0:51:07better and all these other aspects of it and that that seems to be where it's it's kind of empty so

0:51:13there there are and whether ultimately it's the neural engine that helps make that better or

0:51:18whether it's just they need to do a better job in the cloud of programming smart assistants I don't

0:51:23know but it feels like an empty hole and yes I will grant you that Siri is is deeper in that hole

0:51:31that's empty I don't know what that means it Siri's further down but they're all bad I was

0:51:38arguing with my Amazon Echo based product the other day they're all bad and it's a place that

0:51:45I would like for them to get better and that's not just for voice assistants but it's also for

0:51:49like on device like I would really like like you know Apple has this feature in the Apple watch

0:51:54that they introduced a couple years ago that is automatically sensing when you you stop and start

0:52:01a workout without actually choosing the workout start and stop and I it still doesn't work right

0:52:09for me like I'll walk up a steep hill for a long time and nothing and then it will suddenly 25

0:52:15minutes in it'll be like oh are you walking yeah I'm yeah I've been walking for quite a while now

0:52:22and I've also had it where I've stopped to talk this happened yesterday I stopped on a trail

0:52:27while we were hiking to talk to a friend and who is running the other way and we stopped there and

0:52:34chatted for five minutes just standing there and at no point did my watch tap me and say

0:52:42are you do you want to pause now are you done with your workout so then we continue walking

0:52:47and five minutes later while we're walking it says oh do you want to pause now like what what are you

0:52:52seeing now and and it's just one of those things that like that's a feature Apple thought was good

0:52:57enough to put in the device and it still can't intuit based on what its various sensors are

0:53:04telling it that I'm doing as a as a human being and like I want all my devices to be way better

0:53:09at that like way better at intuiting my behavior based on their sensors and this is you know it

0:53:16goes way beyond telling me whether I've stood or not like it's and this is a this is a place where

0:53:21we could do some amazing things especially with wearables but with all the sensors we got in our

0:53:24phones there's a lot of really intelligent deduction that could be done but it's just not there yet

0:53:30so moving on the junk group wrote great article which I saw you linking to as well I know that you

0:53:38it was it's full of lots of little interesting details there yeah Gruber does a good job but

0:53:43this is like I think he outdid himself I think this is a very good useful clear article about

0:53:50what is up with the iPhones in terms of price and in terms of the especially the camera functionality

0:53:58yeah and it's worth reading for those two things and we're not going to go too actually really into

0:54:02detail or about the confounding camera stuff because I know I'm just going to tie myself up

0:54:06in knots again so it's worth reading this article but there are a couple of things I want to pull

0:54:10out one is first comparing like-to-like models year over year the regular iPhone 12 is 130

0:54:16more expensive than the iPhone 11 so something that it didn't really dawn on me until I read this

0:54:21uh the iPhone starts at the same price that it started out before but that's the mini now

0:54:28yeah this is this is one of those things that I think we got swept up in the in the details of the

0:54:34products last week and missed and I really appreciate a Gruber breaking it down and he

0:54:39also broke it down with the 30 rolled in because he thinks that the 30 discount thing is is bogus

0:54:45and I think he's right even though most customers in the U.S. will get it with the 30 discount

0:54:50and you know his point is it's a price increase whether you want to say it's a hundred dollars or

0:54:54130 this is actually a lot like what happened with the iPhone 10 which is they brought a product line

0:55:01to OLED and the price went up and it's not necessarily surprising if you think about it

0:55:06that that way but if you were shopping for an iPhone 11 last year and then you look at the 12

0:55:13this year it's a hundred dollars more 130 more depending and the mini is the price of of what the

0:55:2111 was last year and that's just those those products are more expensive so the the price

0:55:28to buy into the flagship line only went up thirty dollars and if you're on a major carrier it really

0:55:34didn't go up but that's the mini and if you want the larger phone it's it's a hundred dollars more

0:55:40so this is this is a a creeping up apple went a couple of years without necessarily doing the

0:55:45the creeping up in price thing but here we are they they did it this year yeah what they but

0:55:51what they did do which was they tried to do everything they could to make it look like the

0:55:56price hadn't changed which is fine like fine i'm not i'm not this isn't a big complaint from me but

0:56:01that is what they've done here like the prices had to go up clearly for what they were putting in it

0:56:06we know this from OLED OLED is more expensive okay um but they tried their best to maintain

0:56:12the price that they had and they did a couple of things to do that they got rid of chargers they

0:56:17got rid of airpods they made it cheaper to ship these phones because they can ship more of them

0:56:21in the same containers there is so many things that went into keeping the prices even relatively

0:56:27consistent right so like the phone still starts the line still starts at 699 which is with the

0:56:32mini and it also included asking carriers to help them right like they did everything they could to

0:56:40get it to that price right and another quote not including a power adapter in the box also clearly

0:56:47nudges people towards spending the 39 for the new magsafe charger in the same way that removing the

0:56:52headphone jack nudged people towards buying airpods i thought this was really insightful

0:56:57um that like not that it's the reason but it helps right and it's similar it's like

0:57:02they got rid of uh the headphone jack for a bunch of reasons i'm sure but one of them was

0:57:08definitely because they could push people towards um initially beats and then airpods

0:57:14and it's probably a similar thing here where now they have this new uh charging technology that

0:57:20they're happy with and they want to push people towards that so by getting rid of the power

0:57:25adapters people go to the store to buy a power adapter maybe and they maybe pick up this one

0:57:30instead right even though the magsafe charger doesn't come with a power brick either but

0:57:35nevertheless um i wanted to ask if you had uh any more thoughts yourself uh on the iphone line i

0:57:43know that you've been writing a bunch of stuff about it this week have any more kind of considerations

0:57:47solidified for you well i think the big thing so i wrote a piece at macworld that was about

0:57:52a dilemma that i think a lot of people are gonna have and i feel it but i think that there are a

0:57:57bunch of people who feel it more acutely than me and it's the people who have been frustrated at

0:58:01the size of apple's phones getting creeping up getting bigger over time that the from from the

0:58:06five line to the six line and then from the six the six family uh six seven eight to the ten and

0:58:15the screen on the 12 pro is larger than the screen on the 11 pro right so it's this feeling of like

0:58:23it continues to creep in my macworld column i said it's that you know it's the frog in the in

0:58:29the pot of water like you you it just keeps getting warmer and warmer but if you don't like

0:58:35a larger phone and you prefer a smaller phone um how far will apple push you and so i think with

0:58:42the existence of the mini you now have a flagship phone that is noticeably smaller um smaller in

0:58:49hand especially because these these screens are now pushed so close to the edges that it's mostly

0:58:55about uh what you really need to do is think about the size of it holding it in your hand um and

0:59:01because that's usually what people feel it's in their hand or in their pocket right um and and so

0:59:07i've been thinking about that what i didn't really think about that i think is also worth noting here

0:59:13is so first the 12 pro from the 11 pro although the screen is larger the 12 pro is actually not

0:59:22physically that much larger it's about a tenth of an inch taller and 0.01 inches wider so it's

0:59:30essentially in your hand the same it's just slightly taller and the screen is bigger because

0:59:37you measure on the diagonal and so a small change can end up being a larger change on the diagonal

0:59:42what i neglected to consider is the fact that the iphone 12 is the same physical size as the 12 pro

0:59:56whereas the 11 was like the 10r it's bigger a bigger phone and so you had if you did a small

1:00:04medium large it was it was 11 pro and then 11 and then 11 pro max it's not the case this time they're

1:00:12basically the same phone so the truth is if you're somebody who has a 10 uh class phone and you're

1:00:18looking to upgrade your phone you have a bunch of choices because you could you have two phones that

1:00:25are essentially the same size as the phone that you've got the 12 and the 12 pro and they have

1:00:31different features and the screens aren't exactly identical i think but they're but they are in the

1:00:37hand they're the same um and then you've got the mini which is way smaller so i just i think that's

1:00:46really interesting that that um i kept in my mind kind of aligning the 12 with the 11 as a larger

1:00:54cheaper phone and in truth it is no it is neither right it's what's cheaper but it's more expensive

1:01:00than the 11 the 12 is and it's smaller than the 11 which i think the price makes it complicated but

1:01:09the size thing i feel like maybe makes it a little bit more of a mainstream phone that it's about the

1:01:12same size it's not this kind of inexplicably larger yet cheaper phone because that's a little bit of a

1:01:18variation for apple but um but the mini then is the obvious small one so i think i think there's

1:01:24a real question here and that that there's some people are going to leap for the mini because

1:01:26it's like i i the 10 size is already too large the eight size is too large i want to go down the mini

1:01:32lets me do that great then there's everybody else who's like either on a you know six seven eight

1:01:38or went to the 10 10s 11 somewhere in there 11 pro i mean and they look at the 12 and the 12 pro and

1:01:47say these are essentially the same size so which one do i want and that's an interesting buying

1:01:53question too which is 12 or 12 pro because the 12 is cheaper um not as cheap as you might think

1:02:03like at 128 gigs the 12 thank you john gruber for your chart uh at 128 gigs of storage the 12 is

1:02:09only 120 dollars i guess 150 dollars if you've got the good carrier cheaper than the 12 pro they're

1:02:17closer it's just that you can cut it back to 64 and get it for even cheaper so i think it's really

1:02:23i think those are the things that i find the most fascinating you big phone people are just like

1:02:27well promax it's just promax and like i get it that's actually kind of the easiest decision

1:02:32but otherwise you've got this very interesting two almost identical phones in terms of size but

1:02:37one has pro features and one doesn't and then you've got the mini and the question do you go

1:02:42down in size how much has the ever-increasing flagship iphone size bothered you do you want to

1:02:49go all the way back or do you pick up that mini and think oh i i guess i got used to the big phone

1:02:55i'll just stick with the i'll just stick with the 12 or 12 pro one of the things that i think we are

1:03:02yet to see and i'm really intrigued to see how this feels and shakes out of most people is yes

1:03:08the physical sizes haven't changed that much but the screens have gotten bigger and what does that

1:03:12feel like right like i get i totally get i'm completely on board with what you're saying right

1:03:18like these phones are bigger but they're not bigger um but the screens are bigger and the

1:03:24screens are proportionally much larger than the physical size changes have been right um and also

1:03:30the idea of like well the screens are stretching out right because the sides are flat they're not

1:03:36rounded anymore um and so i think it is a thing to that's worth considering because whilst your phone

1:03:42might not be physically larger it will be more tricky potentially for you to reach across the

1:03:47screen so i'm i'm intrigued to see how these screen size changes actually feel in use a lot

1:03:56of ergonomic issues that we're going to have to explore and and having kind of batted down the

1:04:02concern about it getting taller the 12 and 12 pro getting taller than the 11 pro and saying well it's

1:04:11really about how it fits in your hand that's true to a point right but one of the my biggest problem

1:04:17honestly with iphone ergonomics right now on the 11 pro that i have is not the width of the phone

1:04:23at all it's the fact that i can't comfortably reach anything that's up at the top of the screen

1:04:27yeah um and i when i think about the mini i think it's not just going to be narrower it's also going

1:04:36to be shorter and that is uh interesting to me i wonder how that's gonna that's gonna feel so

1:04:43i don't know it ergonomics are important and we talk a lot about prices and 5g radios and

1:04:52processors and neural engines and all of that sort of techy stuff but one of the very important

1:04:59things when it comes to a lot of these products especially a phone is the ergonomics it's like

1:05:04how does it feel in your hand and how does it feel tapping on the screen and is it also out there

1:05:11that we don't really know yet is is it slippery like a bar of soap or does it feel more stable in

1:05:17your hand which i i have high hopes that it will i am happy to report that my favorite fact about

1:05:23iphone about ios and ipads and iphone product sizing is still in effect that the 2018 slash

1:05:302020 ipad pro is still the thinnest device apple has ever made the all of the phones are 7.4

1:05:41millimeters thick all of them all four which is interesting to me that even the mini is as thick

1:05:47as the pro i just find that intriguing it's weird to me that they've decided to keep that thickness

1:05:54so so consistent and the ipad pro is 5.9 millimeters thick the new ipad air is 6.1 so even

1:06:01the ipad air is a little bit thicker than the ipad pro it's one of my favorite facts it's one that i

1:06:07say every now and then and people never believe it and then they have to go check it themselves

1:06:11because it does seem so uh so surprising really that like you know like the ipad pro is thinner

1:06:18than the ipod touch ever was even so really really peculiar um for me uh i've been doing some

1:06:26reflecting on last week i feel like the presentation last week itself left me frustrated but that was

1:06:36just in the presentation on reflecting about the devices themselves i am actually really excited

1:06:43about the iphone 12 line i think that overall this is a very good upgrade because the design

1:06:51looks great and i mean very excited to see what that looks like to hold it um and to see what the

1:06:56new colors are like i like that there's more choice you know like the inclusion of the mini

1:07:02really is fantastic because uh apple finally have created a phone which is of top tier quality

1:07:11and a size that people thought was gone right like when when the se came out and it was it was

1:07:18the new se and it was just an iphone 8 you know i think we all just thought that that that small

1:07:25phone could have been gone forever so i'm really pleased to see that apple have made a small

1:07:30modern phone the leaps in camera performance both in software and hardware are very intriguing to

1:07:36me especially on the pro max i'm really looking forward to and intrigued about what images look

1:07:45like from that phone right like what is it actually going to look like and feel like in

1:07:50in daily use and also just the magsafe stuff is really exciting to me like new options for

1:07:57accessories people can be creative again um i'm excited about that you know like i coming back

1:08:02from the beginning of the show i'm excited about the possibility of having a pop socket that i

1:08:07could just take off and then put my phone on a wireless charger which is just not something

1:08:11that i've been able to do uh before so i i just wanted to say that like i felt like i was

1:08:17frustrated after the event because it was short and confusing in some places and some of the way

1:08:23that apple decided to talk about 5g and stuff was quite frustrating to me um especially because you

1:08:31know not being in the uk like it so not being in the us it like really irked me um like how american

1:08:40focused the presentation was so yeah the presentation annoyed me but i'm super excited

1:08:45about the devices themselves and speaking of which uh i referenced earlier ordering so we ordered a

1:08:53dnr a 12 pro so i will have a new phone to play around with um i will be kind of stealing it

1:09:03every now and then to see how it feels and we'll be doing some camera tests and stuff so on next

1:09:07week's episode uh i will at least i have will have some experience of a 12 pro so i'm excited about

1:09:14that we're actually picking it up at a store jason so i'll talk about what that process is like to go

1:09:20to one of the biggest apple stores in the world on iphone launch day in 2020 to pick up a phone

1:09:25i'm expecting that to be somewhat of an experience in and of itself so there we go excited for next

1:09:33week you get to brave the apple store and see what that process is like and i'm curious because you

1:09:38know i went through it for my thing but my thing was buying a watch band so it didn't really matter

1:09:43so much i haven't ordered anything just to be clear again i haven't ordered anything but i'm

1:09:48hopeful that i'm going to get to try all this stuff uh for review yeah that'd be cool yeah

1:09:52hopefully hopefully both of us will have had some experience with the 12 or 12 pro um by our next

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1:12:22shall we do some hashtag ask upgrade questions jason snell

1:12:27sure that sounds great all right our first question this time comes from brent oh nice

1:12:33brent says if you had to replace your 11-inch ipad pro today or i know you have a 12-inch but let's

1:12:40just imagine a situation in which you have an 11-inch i do would you buy uh another ipad pro

1:12:47or would you get the new ipad air now i want to answer this question in two different ways jason

1:12:54if i can okay yes if i was replacing my ipad pro i would get another ipad pro because i am used to

1:13:04face id if i did not have an ipad pro i would get the ipad air most likely like i would be more

1:13:16willing to to look at that because i wouldn't be used to something i think i would uh get annoyed

1:13:24um with uh like when i use my ipad mini that i have here at the studio i always forget that

1:13:30i need to use touch id on it and it frustrates me a little bit compared to my ipad pro so that would

1:13:36be that would be difficult for me imagine tapping on the space bar on the keyboard and then realizing

1:13:42you have to reach up and oh and yeah put your finger on the touch id that see this is the thing

1:13:47it's like that's just one of those things that i think once you're used to it it would get it would

1:13:50be too frustrating but if i wasn't used to it then i maybe more would more consider it because the

1:13:56ipad pro is a super cool device right um and it's really and you're um you're uh losing promotion

1:14:05you're losing some camera stuff it's it's real close right but the the price also again um is

1:14:15not as wide a gap as you might expect if you're not looking at the base model with the smallest

1:14:20amount of storage so i think i think most people who have an ipad pro if they had to replace it

1:14:26would probably be better off replacing it with an ipad pro um and not missing those features but you

1:14:31know we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop right and for there to be a new ipad pro yeah

1:14:35but if you're coming from nothing like from from none of these types of ipads

1:14:39the ipad here is a very very intriguing prospect yeah tony asks do you think that we will have

1:14:47s model phones in the future or is that gone now right because we went from 11 to 12.

1:14:53what do you think yeah i it's a great question because we've always said i don't believe that

1:15:03the iphone's going to be there's going to be an iphone 19 right and yet here we are at the iphone

1:15:0812 so that has kept happening also next time is 13 which some people have superstitions about

1:15:16although there was an ios 13 and it was yeah and look how that went it was a disaster we've made

1:15:21this i made this exact same joke about three weeks ago i don't know i feel like the future of apple

1:15:27product names is mysterious um and so perhaps they will i doubt it i wouldn't bet on it

1:15:36i feel like it's clearer to just increment the numbers but who knows because apple has changed

1:15:46its its number game a lot and it still does feel like an iphone 19 is unlikely but at the same time

1:15:56what else are they going to do like they've got they now have product name slots and the number

1:16:00is essentially just instead of a year they give it a number so that you know which version it is

1:16:05for which year but it feels like they're settling into a place where there's going to be number

1:16:12number pro number pro max and number mini now and then you just keep incrementing the number in a way

1:16:18that kind of doesn't matter it's just the new iphone but you gotta call it something so if i

1:16:22had to bet money on i mean ever is a is a tough one especially about but i think because it's

1:16:29so bananas right because they keep changing it but right now i think that apple probably is is uh

1:16:35happy to just keep incrementing the number for a long time so i think that the pro max name

1:16:45has removed the ability for them to include s because iphone 12s pro max is too much it's too

1:16:52much oh my god it's too much right there's too many syllables in there so i think that you're

1:16:58right right like they now have names and they just did it they just did it right this could easily be

1:17:03the 11s and it's not it's the 12 and why would you not increment the number and make it seem like a

1:17:07bigger update to get people more excited the s is almost like a uh half-hearted upgrade in terms of

1:17:15naming so i wouldn't do it and you're right the pro max makes it even worse napali asks do you know

1:17:23if the new ceramic glass is more scratch resistant apple just mentions brake resistance and durability

1:17:30do you think we could end up with more scratches this is an interesting question i i'm

1:17:37unclear on that because that that definitely is something that has come up before that if you

1:17:42if you try to prevent shattering you may end up being more uh scratch scratchy i don't know i

1:17:50mean what i'll say is like i don't know the proper is a ceramic very much but i've been wearing a

1:17:56ceramic apple watch on and off for over a year and i cannot see a scratch on it anywhere so

1:18:04i don't know i don't know but i am intrigued uh i'm also intrigued for the people that try to

1:18:13break their phones you know i i do not condone the destruction of devices no but for scientific

1:18:19purposes i am interested to know right like if people do side-by-side drop tests um they're

1:18:27difficult to conduct as well because it's like you can't do it scientifically but i am intrigued to

1:18:32see teardowns and and durability tests and stuff of this new glass like how much more um resistant

1:18:42is it actually we'll find out so uh witter charm in the chat says that it's actually more they're

1:18:48claiming more scratch and brake resistant so i don't know we'll see where did they claim that

1:18:55like in the in the thing itself they just said it was more durable so i don't know all right i hope

1:19:01so chris asks if apple had added a fingerprint sensor in the power button to the iphone how would

1:19:08they manage it given that most people use cases they have a cutout for the kit for the uh for the

1:19:14button i just i don't think how do they manage it with a home button before with touch id like you

1:19:21have a cutout for the touch id sensor um my thought was they could just end up with a folio case for

1:19:27the iphone like a folio case style like they do with the ipad and it and it actually leaves the

1:19:33sides exposed um to a to a degree yeah i don't know but i think the easiest situations you just

1:19:41do a cutout like this is how other uh phones that phones do exist in the world with with uh

1:19:49fingerprint sensors in the lock buttons right this is a very normal thing on android phones

1:19:56and there's just a cutout in that part of the case simple like it's it's it's done uh last question

1:20:04today comes from zach zach says i am very tempted by the 12 mini being a person who enjoys smaller

1:20:11phones but the switch from touch id to face id is giving me some pause i'm currently on the newer se

1:20:17overall what are your experiences with the speed convenience and usefulness of face id

1:20:22versus touch id especially during covid so i love face id i do i i prefer it i love having it on my

1:20:30ipads especially um with wearing a mask outside in public it's terrible it's terrible it's terrible

1:20:37and so i i don't really know what to say here other than if you're out and about a lot wearing a mask

1:20:46um it's not a good experience and you probably need to go to a low security password because

1:20:52you'll you're going to be endlessly locking and unlocking your phone i don't go out a lot so it

1:20:58doesn't really bother me that much and it's super convenient when i'm unlocking it in the house and

1:21:03not wearing a mask but when i'm out and i'm trying to like shop and check my shopping list on my

1:21:10iphone and i'm wearing a mask every single suddenly these invisible interactions that

1:21:16face id enables that are so great are all gone and i'm and i'm inputting my password every and

1:21:26it turns out i lock and unlock my phone all the time when i'm at the store and i don't notice it

1:21:32because it's face id and then you wear a mask and suddenly you see all those interactions and yeah

1:21:39you can change to a simple password you could turn off uh screen lock and try not to turn off your

1:21:47phone while you're in the store i've done that it's not great so i i honestly don't know what

1:21:55to say about this um you are gonna have to adapt if you live in a cold climate you're gonna be

1:22:00wearing gloves in the winter anyway um which is bad for touch id so i don't know it it all depends

1:22:09on your circumstance and how you use your device but there is no doubt that if you're out and about

1:22:14uh in a in a public location where masks are being worn you are gonna have uh have to adapt how you

1:22:23use your iphone versus um you know using an easily more easily uh available biometric like touch id

1:22:32or face id without a mask yeah yeah like i like face id in most instances it is faster and like

1:22:43so basically before covered it was like easy for me like and the only thing that i had an issue with

1:22:48was when uh it was like more frustrating for me to touch in in public transport but then apple

1:22:56added the express card thing where you can set a card to your phone and you don't have to use any

1:23:03authentication for it you just touch it by the reader and it goes it's super easy because it

1:23:07used to be before you wouldn't even need to bring the the the phone up to your face it's just done

1:23:13but with me wearing face masks now it is more annoying but

1:23:19i guess you kind of just have to make that decision right like it's as you said if you

1:23:25if you do wear gloves in the winter and realize that you're not that doesn't work for you then

1:23:29you're used to this idea just clothing in some way restricts the biometrics this is not a new thing

1:23:37but we're focusing on it more now because there's a new way for most people that this is happening so

1:23:44this isn't a clear answer because really this has to be your own decision but if you are asking for

1:23:50our experiences these are those i think we both prefer face id to touch id in most situations

1:23:56but would still like touch id to come back and have both if apple said to me you can replace

1:24:01touch id with face id i wouldn't do it because when i'm at home or when i'm somewhere where

1:24:06i'm not wearing a mask or whatever face id is superior to touch id so i wouldn't want to change

1:24:11so that's where i am a bit if you would like to send in a question to help us close out

1:24:18the show you can always send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade or in the relay fm members

1:24:24discord use question mark ask upgrade send me a question that way you can also help us open the

1:24:29show with a hashtag snow talk question i'm sure you can understand how you need to do that given

1:24:34what i've just told you if you'd like to find jason online go to sixcolors.com and he is at

1:24:39jsnell j-s-n-e-double-l i am at i mike i m-y-k-e thank you to smile pingdom and express vpn for

1:24:46their support of this show and thank you to the people that support us directly our upgrading

1:24:52members people that subscribe to upgrade plus if you would like to get upgrade with no ads and

1:24:57with additional content just go to get upgrade plus.com where you can sign up today and thank

1:25:03you so much if you do that we'll be back next time until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike

1:25:09early