00:00:19 ◼ ► Hi Myke Hurley, how are you? Fine and dandy my friend, back to normal, this time. And as is normal
00:00:30 ◼ ► and Ryan wants to know, Jason, how do you feel about the fake crowd noises in sports games?
00:00:35 ◼ ► Uh, well first I want to back up for a second, you said like every show there's a Snell Talk
00:00:39 ◼ ► question, does that mean like for Connected there's a Snell Talk question but it's never
00:00:42 ◼ ► spoken because I'm not there? I mean, when I say show I mean this one. Oh I see. Like every episode
00:00:47 ◼ ► you know? Oh see, I just I like to imagine like what would the Snell Talk question be for this
00:00:52 ◼ ► episode of Cortex? Snell Talk questions have appeared in other shows, we have one on the
00:00:56 ◼ ► Pan-Attic recently. Okay, see, that's good. Um, this question is referring to the fact that there
00:01:02 ◼ ► are there are lots of sporting events going on now that have no fans in the stands, and so the TV
00:01:06 ◼ ► broadcasters are sometimes the public address announcer, you know, the sound system at a at a
00:01:11 ◼ ► venue plays crowd noise to simulate what would be the noise if uh if there was a crowd there. And
00:01:20 ◼ ► uh having listened to both, so I was listening to the I think it was the Korean Baseball Organization
00:01:27 ◼ ► games before Major League Baseball started and they were just playing those on ESPN with no sound
00:01:36 ◼ ► Um, and then on um NBC's streaming platforms, including Peacock, the uh the Premier League games
00:01:48 ◼ ► from England were done where you could listen to it. They were broadcast with the sound added of
00:01:55 ◼ ► fans, but you could go onto their streaming channel and listen without watch it without the sound added
00:02:00 ◼ ► and it's difficult because basically what I want to say is a silent stadium is no good.
00:02:08 ◼ ► You need something. I think I've seen it where they've added sort of a it's like a white noise
00:02:13 ◼ ► in the background. I think the white noise is a good thing. I think they should play white noise
00:02:17 ◼ ► of fan noise at the parks because it's good for all the players and everything to have it be that
00:02:24 ◼ ► not every word that they say is clearly audible to everyone in attendance and everyone watching on TV.
00:02:30 ◼ ► Like I don't think that's healthy. There's some strategy loss in that I think too. Yeah, and
00:02:36 ◼ ► embarrassment. There's a whole chain of baseball players striking out on pitches and then shouting
00:02:42 ◼ ► a bad word that is very clearly audible and it's hilarious. It makes me laugh, but I guess I would
00:02:50 ◼ ► say and there was a golf one too the US Open that there was a guy missed a putt and he just
00:02:55 ◼ ► proclaimed something and everybody heard it. So I think some white noise just to give it some
00:03:02 ◼ ► background is a good thing. That said, some of the stuff is aggressive. I actually don't mind it
00:03:09 ◼ ► sounding like a real crowd because I like to pretend that things are normal. That's the whole
00:03:14 ◼ ► point of airing these sports I think is to pretend that things are normal when they're not and to give
00:03:18 ◼ ► you a little bit of comfort. Sometimes they make bad decisions and there are weird reactions. It's
00:03:23 ◼ ► like, "Oh, you pushed the wrong button there," and that's not great. I don't know. It doesn't bother
00:03:27 ◼ ► me. I think done well, it can be like anything. Done well, I think it's good. Done badly, it's bad.
00:03:35 ◼ ► But I think at the bare minimum, a little bit of white noise in that situation is not bad.
00:03:45 ◼ ► from Wembley Stadium. That was interesting because they had to simulate that there were two sets of
00:03:51 ◼ ► home fans because it's a neutral site. They actually had songs from the various teams and
00:04:04 ◼ ► I thought, "That's kind of good. I kind of like that." The short version is, "I think you need
00:04:10 ◼ ► something," and when it's well done, I think it's good. That's it. Yeah, my feeling on it is that
00:04:16 ◼ ► most of the time I don't notice it. It just sounds fine, but there are times where like,
00:04:22 ◼ ► "Oh, that sounded weird," or like, "Oh, that sounds fake," but I feel like I notice those moments way
00:04:28 ◼ ► more than if there was no sound. Then I would constantly be thinking, "This is weird. There's
00:04:32 ◼ ► no sound." Exactly. It's like there's something wrong. It's an empty void that there's occasional
00:04:37 ◼ ► shouts of somebody in. The one sound that I kind of miss, although I'm sure there's some ballparks
00:04:42 ◼ ► that do this, is one of my favorite sounds in all of baseball is when somebody hits a towering fly
00:04:48 ◼ ► ball that is very much not going to leave the park and be a home run. It's just going to be an out,
00:04:53 ◼ ► but the fans who are not really paying attention and have no depth perception all go, "Ah!" and you
00:05:00 ◼ ► get the swell of fan excitement that is immediately dashed when it's very clear that this ball is not
00:05:10 ◼ ► Thank you so much to Ryan for that Snowtalk question. If you'd like to send in a question
00:05:15 ◼ ► to help us open the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk or use question mark
00:05:19 ◼ ► #snowtalk in the Relay FM Discord. We have some follow-up. I have a question from Adrian that was
00:05:25 ◼ ► follow-up in relation to, I think it was on our last episode or in a recent episode we were talking
00:05:29 ◼ ► about the potential for Apple to create new peripherals with Apple Silicon Macs, like new
00:05:35 ◼ ► keyboard, new mice, and what would they have on them? I think we both weren't really too sure of
00:05:39 ◼ ► what we could add, but Adrian made a suggestion I thought was interesting to have some kind of
00:05:44 ◼ ► functionality similar to what the H1 chip does with AirPods for seamless switching between devices.
00:05:50 ◼ ► I would like that. I hadn't really thought of this. I was viewing it also as a follow-up to our
00:05:57 ◼ ► conversation about what features they could add to the products, and they go together, right?
00:06:01 ◼ ► The idea here that although Apple is going to make some software updates to AirPods to make them
00:06:06 ◼ ► switch between devices more easily this fall with the big OS updates, I do wonder if there's
00:06:14 ◼ ► some hardware that they could put on Macs that would make this more reliable and that maybe
00:06:20 ◼ ► exists or will exist on new iPhones and iPads. So it's something to keep in mind because Apple
00:06:25 ◼ ► definitely wants it to be the case that you can essentially sit down at an Apple device,
00:06:29 ◼ ► pick up an Apple device with your AirPods in and have it sort of seamlessly switch. And as somebody
00:06:35 ◼ ► who runs with a pair of AirPods and an Apple watch, it is not seamless. Sometimes it's mostly
00:06:42 ◼ ► seamless. Sometimes I will start playing a podcast in Overcast on my watch and it will play in my
00:06:47 ◼ ► AirPods. And then a lot of times you gotta like pick the AirPods and see if it disconnects from
00:06:53 ◼ ► the phone and, "Oh no, it's still connected to the phone. I need to turn Bluetooth off on the phone
00:06:57 ◼ ► and now will it play?" And so like every, this is one of those things that actually Apple has a
00:07:02 ◼ ► great advantage at because they control the hardware and the software and this ecosystem
00:07:12 ◼ ► whatever device you're using at the moment." And then back from that, what hardware and software do
00:07:18 ◼ ► they need to build to enable that? So sure, maybe that's an Apple Silicon Mac thing that
00:07:24 ◼ ► can make that process even more transparent. That would be great. - But like, I would like to be
00:07:30 ◼ ► able to use my track pad on my iPad or my Mac, right? Like really easily. - Yeah, it's all the
00:07:38 ◼ ► same deal, right? Like can you build a system that allows any Bluetooth or, I mean, let's be serious
00:07:46 ◼ ► here, probably any Apple branded peripheral to work and switch fairly seamlessly between devices.
00:07:51 ◼ ► That would be great, right? I don't know exactly how you do that, but I agree. I have that now,
00:07:58 ◼ ► like right now you can do that with the Magic Trackpad and the Magic Keyboard and the Magic
00:08:02 ◼ ► Mouse by plugging them in via a lightning cable, which is nice. I actually kind of like that,
00:08:08 ◼ ► that it's kind of instant. But I do have that where I am trying to take a keyboard that was on this
00:08:14 ◼ ► Mac and use it with this iPad and you get into the Bluetooth menu dance and all of that. And it
00:08:21 ◼ ► could be better, right? - We spoke about the original upgrade in Monica for people who can
00:08:28 ◼ ► prove to us that they've been around since the beginning of the show. And we found our first,
00:08:33 ◼ ► Sunit sent us a tweet that they had sent back in September of 2014 congratulating us on starting
00:08:39 ◼ ► the show. So we have some proof from Sunit who is crowned as the first original upgrade in.
00:08:48 ◼ ► - Okay, all right. I just want to point out for reasons that will become clear. I don't need to
00:08:58 ◼ ► approve of you as an original upgrade in. Prove it in your own heart. Once you know in your own
00:09:04 ◼ ► heart that you were an original upgrade in, you have my blessing. I don't want us to become like
00:09:10 ◼ ► the corporate clerks of upgrade in-ism, Myke. - Interesting, okay. I'm happy to approve the
00:09:16 ◼ ► original status. - Okay, send your proof to Myke. - But you got to have the proof, right? That's why
00:09:22 ◼ ► I feel like I'm happy with this one because we've only had a couple of people in the last week that
00:09:27 ◼ ► have attempted to prove themselves, right? Because you have to be able to show me the receipts.
00:09:32 ◼ ► And Sunit had the receipts, right? So I want to see the receipts if you're going to try and
00:09:36 ◼ ► tell me you're an original upgrade in. - And if you know you were, then you have my approval.
00:09:42 ◼ ► - Yeah, if you know you've been around since episode one but don't have it, right? Like,
00:09:47 ◼ ► I bestow upon you the title of original upgrade in. But if you want me to tell you personally
00:09:53 ◼ ► that you are one, you need to be able to prove it to me. So that's where we sit on that one.
00:09:58 ◼ ► - All right. - iOS 13.7, it just keeps going up. - Email Myke. - It keeps going up iOS 13.7.
00:10:05 ◼ ► I think we can call iOS 13 the Mac OS X of iOS releases because they just keep incrementing that
00:10:26 ◼ ► it's still what it's called by most places, but Apple and Google changed it to exposure
00:10:29 ◼ ► notification so they could try and steer away from some of the bad reputation that contact
00:10:34 ◼ ► tracing was getting. - Contact tracing is a very particular thing too that is involved manual,
00:10:38 ◼ ► like the phones don't do contact tracing. - Exactly, very good point. - They just provide a
00:10:42 ◼ ► log of notifications of people who were nearby. - It's part of that, right? Like having a Google
00:10:48 ◼ ► contact tracing method. - Yes, it could potentially be a tool used in contact tracing. - So we'd
00:10:54 ◼ ► spoken about this a long time ago and so for a quick refresher, this is the system where your
00:11:00 ◼ ► phones, iPhones and Android phones can communicate with each other to exchange codes and keys,
00:11:06 ◼ ► basically to say that two devices have been in each other's presence for a long period of time,
00:11:12 ◼ ► and it creates these links and there's lots of privacy measures built in. And then the idea that
00:11:16 ◼ ► if you test positive for COVID, you can tell your an application created by your local health
00:11:22 ◼ ► authority that you have it, and then your phone will send out, well your phone then goes up to
00:11:27 ◼ ► a server which then sends out notifications to everybody who you've had one of these link
00:11:31 ◼ ► exchanges with within a certain period of time. Now, prior to iOS 13.7 and currently, like as we
00:11:39 ◼ ► speak of today, to be able to use the exposure notification feature built into iOS, you have to
00:11:44 ◼ ► first download an app from your regional health provider. And so then it will turn on, you can
00:11:51 ◼ ► then turn on exposure notification tracking. But from 13.7, and I expect iOS 14 will get this
00:11:59 ◼ ► feature too, you'll no longer need to install the healthcare provider app first to opt into exposure
00:12:05 ◼ ► notification tracking. You can turn it on in the system, and then as long as it's been approved for
00:12:10 ◼ ► your region, you can only turn it on if it has been, you'll be able to use it. Then if you've
00:12:16 ◼ ► been exposed to somebody who has COVID, your device will alert you without you ever needing
00:12:20 ◼ ► to have installed an app. But if you as an individual test positive, you install the app
00:12:25 ◼ ► to tell the app so, which then will trigger the notifications for others. Basically, this is just
00:12:30 ◼ ► taking away one extra step so more people may use it. But I don't know how many people are
00:12:39 ◼ ► realistically going to use these features. I think it will be interesting to see if Apple has a plan
00:12:44 ◼ ► for onboarding people, right? Like I don't think we've seen that. I haven't seen that like as a
00:12:50 ◼ ► such as like Apple saying to you, "Hey, you should turn this on. Here's why." And I also think from
00:12:56 ◼ ► this, with this being in 13.7, I think we can assume that there's still a bit of time until 14
00:13:03 ◼ ► because I don't know, maybe Apple also wants to have this in 13.7 in case people don't upgrade
00:13:11 ◼ ► to 14. So they have both cracks, but I would feel like the fact that they're putting this into iOS
00:13:17 ◼ ► 13.7 would indicate that 14 is not imminent, right? Which is what, I mean, logic would suggest
00:13:25 ◼ ► anyway, but it's such an unknown right now as to when iOS 14 could arrive. Yeah, I mean,
00:13:31 ◼ ► it may also be that they want to make sure that people who are on the 13 track and maybe
00:13:35 ◼ ► hesitate at upgrading to 14 for a while are still able to have this feature. I think it's a little
00:13:40 ◼ ► bit of a problem, but yes. Yeah, so we'll see. But it's there now. And I, of course, went to this
00:13:46 ◼ ► feature and it is not enabled for me because the state of California is not using this feature. So
00:13:52 ◼ ► there's no app and therefore it's not available to me because you have to be in the region
00:13:56 ◼ ► that has the availability. Otherwise there's kind of no point. I am very surprised that California
00:14:02 ◼ ► is not doing this. I don't know. I don't know what they're doing. I would seem to me to be like one
00:14:07 ◼ ► of the places that would definitely do it, but. Well, you know, we don't have that many tech
00:14:11 ◼ ► companies here, so it's hard to find. There's no lobbying. There's no way a tech company could
00:14:16 ◼ ► lobby. There's nobody to make the tools. Who would even make it? Who would do it? It's happening in
00:14:27 ◼ ► functionality. I don't know why they can't just turn this. I mean, maybe we'll just, you know,
00:14:33 ◼ ► pass for myself. I am happier about this because I prefer to just do everything through Apple's
00:14:40 ◼ ► privacy than to give my information to the government first. Right. So like for me personally,
00:14:54 ◼ ► And then I can just be opted into this system. It can be helpful for me, helpful for others
00:15:00 ◼ ► without having to give whatever information my government wants me to give in their application
00:15:05 ◼ ► first. So like that's cool. I'm pleased about that. So I'm intrigued to see how it ends up
00:15:13 ◼ ► taking control. It's not like taking over if it does or if it doesn't. I'm interested to see how
00:15:18 ◼ ► many people actually sign up for it. It is about to be September. We can basically call it September
00:15:25 ◼ ► now. Do you know what happens in September? In September, you can join in with supporters around
00:15:30 ◼ ► the world during childhood cancer awareness month to raise money for the kids of St. Jude's
00:15:35 ◼ ► Children's Research Hospital, where families never receive a bill for anything. Every single year,
00:15:40 ◼ ► between 180,000 and 240,000 children are diagnosed with cancer worldwide. And St. Jude is not going
00:15:48 ◼ ► to stop until no child dies from cancer. That is their mission. They have made incredible strides.
00:16:00 ◼ ► stjude.org/relay and you can join the fight to end childhood cancer. That is stjude.org/relay.
00:16:08 ◼ ► Go and donate now. And when you're on our donation page, you're going to see that we've been adding
00:16:14 ◼ ► in some milestones. So we've got some fun stuff that we've been doing, some fun Twitch streams,
00:16:19 ◼ ► and we have more upcoming. We are currently, we've passed $35,000, which is absolutely unbelievable.
00:16:27 ◼ ► We aren't even in September yet and we've passed 10% of our goal. So I just want to thank everyone
00:16:34 ◼ ► so much for the donations that they've made so far. And if you still want to donate, please go
00:16:40 ◼ ► ahead. We've got some fun stuff that we're cooking up at the moment. Me and Steven are working on
00:16:45 ◼ ► some challenges, basically things that we can do that are bad for us that make you want to give
00:16:50 ◼ ► money to make happen, right? People like that kind of stuff. So we're working on that. We've also got
00:16:56 ◼ ► some milestones in on the campaign page. So I just did on our Twitch channel, which you can go and
00:17:03 ◼ ► find the video. I did a Q&A and run through of my iPad setup, which was a fun thing to do last
00:17:09 ◼ ► weekend. Steven's going to do a tour of his Mac when we hit $50,000. And then when we hit 70,
00:17:16 ◼ ► he's going to do a live stream of installing Apple's wheels onto his Mac Pro. Steven bought
00:17:22 ◼ ► the Mac Pro wheels and for your enjoyment, he will install them. And we're going to be adding
00:17:27 ◼ ► in more. I've got some ideas for some other streams that we're going to put in there. So
00:17:30 ◼ ► basically as we hit different milestones throughout the fundraising campaign, we're going to be doing
00:17:35 ◼ ► more and more stuff as we lead up to the podcast-a-thon on September 18th, which Jason's
00:17:40 ◼ ► cooking up something very fun for. I am happy to announce that I will once again, somehow be hosting
00:17:55 ◼ ► Yes, we're not doing Family Feud again, although that was good. I didn't want to go back there
00:17:59 ◼ ► again. We're going to do something different. We'll see how it goes. It hasn't been tried before
00:18:05 ◼ ► on any of my podcasts anyway, so we're going to give it a go. So that's another reason to
00:18:33 ◼ ► All right, this episode is brought to you by Things from Culture Code. If you want to achieve
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00:21:02 ◼ ► So let's do some upstream headlines, Jason. I have a few things for you that Apple are up to.
00:21:09 ◼ ► Keira Knightley has signed on to produce and star in a period drama called The Essex Serpent.
00:21:40 ◼ ► content for Europe, and they're trying to create shows in different countries. So not everything
00:21:48 ◼ ► you see on Apple TV+ is going to be an American, you know, big budget American drama. They're doing
00:21:54 ◼ ► those, obviously, and those are what they launched with. But we're going to see more of this. There's
00:21:57 ◼ ► already been a handful of sort of little British sitcoms that just happen to be on Apple TV+
00:22:02 ◼ ► instead of, you know, originating on the BBC or one of the other various associated BBCs,
00:22:09 ◼ ► like Channel 4. Again, because I am convinced as an American that all TV in the UK is just the BBC.
00:22:28 ◼ ► - And there's Myke's house. You know, I think that this is like another example, though, of like,
00:22:32 ◼ ► just having a, you know, looking at the the roster of talent that Apple TV+ has is quite astounding.
00:22:45 ◼ ► movie star, right? So for her to be in a television show on Apple TV+, just another massive name.
00:22:53 ◼ ► - Well, it's like, this looks a little like Chris Evans with Defending Jacob, right? Where
00:23:01 ◼ ► it's an interesting mixture too, where it's a long form project, it's a mini series, and
00:23:08 ◼ ► - I believe this is as a show, not a movie. - It's a show. So, you know, whether it's extended
00:23:13 ◼ ► or not, like, it's a similar thing where it's somebody who's like headlining movies and
00:23:18 ◼ ► the other headlining this thing on Apple TV+. By the way, before we leave the UK production
00:23:48 ◼ ► actors in it, along with Jason Sudeikis, who's the lead, the American lead, and if you got
00:23:54 ◼ ► turned off by the concept of Ted Lasso because it was based on a commercial or because it's
00:23:59 ◼ ► about sports, just give it a try. It's so good. It's about halfway through the season now. They're
00:24:04 ◼ ► releasing them weekly, so you're going to watch those first five and then you're going to regret
00:24:07 ◼ ► that you have to watch the rest of them weekly. - I have, this is on our list, but I'm kind of
00:24:14 ◼ ► waiting until I can... - Watch it all? - Yeah, either watch it all or get close to the end,
00:24:19 ◼ ► I think is where we're going to go with it, because I keep also hearing universally good
00:24:25 ◼ ► things about it. - It's really good. I think one of the things that works is that it's not what you
00:24:32 ◼ ► expect. You expect a certain kind of thing when you hear the premise and that's not what the show
00:24:36 ◼ ► is. The show has heart and depth and it's remarkable. It is, on one level, yes, it is a
00:24:44 ◼ ► sort of, it's a sports movie in the, or sports show, but it's like those sports movies that are
00:24:48 ◼ ► heartwarming and also very funny. So yeah, people should check it out. - There are three docuseries
00:24:57 ◼ ► coming to Apple TV+. One is called Tiny World and is narrated by Paul Rudd, which was funny to me
00:25:03 ◼ ► because Paul Rudd is Ant-Man. - Is he Ant-Man? Oh, hello everybody. Welcome to my world, the world of
00:25:11 ◼ ► the tiny. - Because, well, that's exactly what this show is about. So this series, I'll give a
00:25:18 ◼ ► quote here from Variety, this nature series aims to look at the world through the eyes of the
00:25:22 ◼ ► ziniest creatures and witness the extraordinary things that they do to survive. - You've got to
00:25:26 ◼ ► think the producers are like, wow, who could we get to narrate this? Like Ant-Man? No, we can't,
00:25:31 ◼ ► we can't do, oh, okay, he's available, all right. - Funnily enough, everyone's available right now.
00:25:38 ◼ ► - To narrate things in their house, sure. - October 2nd, this one's coming. Then we have
00:25:44 ◼ ► Becoming You, narrated by Olivia Colman, who's currently playing the queen in The Crown,
00:25:49 ◼ ► obviously Olivia Colman's been in a million things and she's fantastic. This is coming in November.
00:25:53 ◼ ► - Oscar winner. - Oscar winner. The series looks at how a child's first 2000 days shaped the rest
00:26:00 ◼ ► of their lives and Earth at Night in Color, narrated by Tom Hiddleston, follows the moonlit
00:26:12 ◼ ► I am into all of these because the human interest one, right, Becoming You, just sounds like a really
00:26:19 ◼ ► interesting premise and then the other two are nature documentaries and Apple TV is in 4k, so
00:26:25 ◼ ► they're going to look fantastic. So I will watch all of those, they sound great and this is, we
00:26:30 ◼ ► spoke about this a million times already, but this is another example of you can't just do one type
00:26:36 ◼ ► of programming if you want to be a not, because I think Apple at this point is I think kind of
00:26:42 ◼ ► showing themselves that they're not, they don't want to be like HBO of old, they want to be a
00:26:46 ◼ ► streaming service with a lot of content on it. Like that's what they want to do, they want to make you
00:26:50 ◼ ► feel like you are coming to them and you can get a lot of stuff, which is why we can talk every
00:26:57 ◼ ► single week about the new things they're ordering, right, they want lots of good content and if
00:27:01 ◼ ► you're going to go that route you have to have a variety of content and that includes documentaries.
00:27:06 ◼ ► Here's a weird one, Apple is planning on using AR experiences to market TV+ content. This is a
00:27:15 ◼ ► report from Mark Gurman at Bloomberg, I just need to read this quote from the article. Go ahead, do it.
00:27:21 ◼ ► Elements of a TV show like characters or objects would be displayed on a viewer's phone or tablet,
00:27:27 ◼ ► for example someone watching a moonwalking scene in For All Mankind might be able to see a virtual lunar
00:27:33 ◼ ► rover on their device's display, seemingly perched atop their living room coffee table. The option
00:27:39 ◼ ► would serve as a bonus content akin to the director commentary or trailer that accompany a movie and
00:27:44 ◼ ► would be accessed from Apple's TV app on the iPhone or iPad. And then the article also references that
00:27:51 ◼ ► this would be available next year ahead of any headset from Apple set for 2022, who cares.
00:27:57 ◼ ► Who cares, no one wants this, who cares. Yeah, this feels like they did a Super Bowl commercial
00:28:04 ◼ ► where there was like a scratch and sniff card. It's a gimmick, it seems like a really, like,
00:28:09 ◼ ► this feels like something that John Moltz should have written for Crazy Apple Rumors, like, it's
00:28:17 ◼ ► literally putting pieces of Apple's product strategy together and then making a joke about
00:28:22 ◼ ► how they're connected in a stupid way. Like, AR is really big, how does Apple TV Plus factor into AR?
00:28:29 ◼ ► It's like, well, what do we create AR models that, so while you're watching this show, you can see
00:28:34 ◼ ► what's happening or you can get a little thing that appears on your coffee table while you're,
00:28:39 ◼ ► like, as you said, Myke, again, who cares? Seems like a dumb idea to me. Not to poo-poo people
00:28:47 ◼ ► trying different stuff, but I've seen so many, like, extend beyond the show kind of gimmicks,
00:28:53 ◼ ► and this feels like one of them. That's just like, if this is, the way this article describes it,
00:28:59 ◼ ► I don't think if it's necessarily like this, like, the idea that it's supposed to be synced up with
00:29:03 ◼ ► the content, like, because that would, if that's the case, like, don't make people not watch the
00:29:09 ◼ ► show, right? Yeah, and if it's a little, like, AR sticker kind of thing that you get for watching
00:29:16 ◼ ► the show or something like that, I'm not sure that is any better. I don't think people want that.
00:29:22 ◼ ► What this feels like to me is like, hey kids, marketing material is yay! And it's like,
00:29:28 ◼ ► of characters you don't care about, right? Like, you know, because you've got to imagine,
00:29:41 ◼ ► right? So you might get, like, Stranger Things or, like, Spider-Man or whatever, right? You can kind
00:29:50 ◼ ► of see that a little bit more, but like, who is watching For All Mankind and being like, oh man,
00:29:56 ◼ ► I really wished I could put, like, the characters for all mankind in my Instagram stories. Like,
00:30:02 ◼ ► it's not a thing that people want to do. This feels to me like there was a directive from
00:30:06 ◼ ► Up High that, like, every division in Apple needs to come up with some kind of AR/VR strategy,
00:30:10 ◼ ► and this is the one that the TV division came up with. Right, and it'll end up being kind of
00:30:15 ◼ ► nothing. And, you know, it's not to say that you couldn't use AR in an interesting way for a TV
00:30:21 ◼ ► show or a movie, but it would have to be something that would almost emerge from the content and have
00:30:30 ◼ ► to be baked in at that level. Like, if there was an episode on the moon of For All Mankind where
00:30:36 ◼ ► there was a sort of, like, strategy going on and they kept looking at the screen of, like,
00:30:41 ◼ ► where everybody is on the surface of the moon and where they need to get to and all of that,
00:30:45 ◼ ► and you could turn your coffee table into that map. Like, literally the surface of the moon with
00:30:51 ◼ ► little dots for where everybody is while you're watching the episode. Like, I can pitch that as
00:30:56 ◼ ► being like, oh, that might be interesting, although even then you're taking your focus away from the
00:31:00 ◼ ► show. But at least it would be kind of like an interesting thing, but that's, like, not that
00:31:14 ◼ ► what is effectively a director's commentary, but visually. Like, as I'm watching the show,
00:31:20 ◼ ► point out things to me, right? But this is all for rewatching. I don't want this happening while I'm
00:31:26 ◼ ► watching it for the first time. In this report, German says that Apple are currently considering
00:31:32 ◼ ► to keep a free trial offer available for a shorter period of time for TV+ because we're about a month
00:31:38 ◼ ► and a bit away before we all start paying for it. And by the way, I think we'll try and mention this
00:31:45 ◼ ► as the time gets closer, if you're using it, you are opted in to pay unless you say otherwise.
00:31:55 ◼ ► if you looked in the terms and conditions, very clear that it was an opt out. So if you bought a
00:32:02 ◼ ► new one, I think it launched in late October, early November was when people got into it. So
00:32:07 ◼ ► it's not that far away from now. Two months. The expirations begin in two months. And Apple today
00:32:15 ◼ ► announced Mariah Carey's magical Christmas special from the rare Apple announced PR release for a TV+
00:32:24 ◼ ► thing. Usually these things get out in the media first, but it says, quote, "An exclusive holiday
00:32:28 ◼ ► event from worldwide superstar and multi-platinum, multi-Grammy award-winning artist Mariah Carey,
00:32:39 ◼ ► premiere on the heels of the 25th anniversary of Carey's iconic number one holiday anthem,
00:32:44 ◼ ► All I Want for Christmas is You, and will feature the legendary icon and a star-studded lineup of
00:32:49 ◼ ► surprise guest appearances in a magical holiday journey to enliven the Christmas spirit around
00:32:55 ◼ ► the world. I have to say, I kind of love the idea that streaming services are experimenting with
00:33:00 ◼ ► ways of doing the Christmas special, the TV Christmas special. That's the thing like Netflix
00:33:06 ◼ ► did that movie, or, well, it wasn't even a movie, that special with Bill Murray. It was actually
00:33:11 ◼ ► pretty good. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah. Yeah. And it's got, it's got like a lot of special guest stars
00:33:16 ◼ ► and, and, uh, yeah. So I think it's fun that they're doing this. This is, of course it's Mariah
00:33:22 ◼ ► Carey, uh, who is slowly transforming into the living embodiment of Christmas, thanks to that
00:33:30 ◼ ► one song. In like 200 years, people won't talk about Santa Claus anymore. No. They will talk
00:33:38 ◼ ► about Mariah Carey. Yeah. Maybe like they'll, they'll mix it all up and it'll be like Santa
00:33:42 ◼ ► Carey is coming to town and all she wants for Christmas is you. I said that a little too
00:33:48 ◼ ► threateningly, but anyway, you get my point. They also have a Christmas movie, which I don't remember
00:33:54 ◼ ► off the top of my head, but I think is starring Wolf Farrell. Do you remember that? This was
00:33:59 ◼ ► commissioned like last year around that time. The funny thing, I mean, we'll see if they made it,
00:34:04 ◼ ► right? Yeah. If they were able to make it, but the idea, I love the idea that, um, streaming services
00:34:10 ◼ ► have to, they're kind of combining the idea of the TV Christmas special with the idea of the,
00:34:16 ◼ ► the holiday themed movie and like try, try this stuff out. It's great. The beauty of it
00:34:20 ◼ ► is that you commissioned the movie and you premiere it and then you can have people watch it every
00:34:25 ◼ ► year. So that's why we have so many. That's why there's so much Christmas create a classic and
00:34:30 ◼ ► then it becomes part of the cannon. If you hit it, you can that, that, that will pay off for years to
00:34:37 ◼ ► come if you hit it right. And they don't all hit, but when they do, they, uh, they will really pay
00:34:43 ◼ ► off and you can recycle them every year. And this is the plot of about a boy, by the way. So anyway,
00:34:48 ◼ ► uh, it was a Christmas Carol musical with Wolf and Ryan Reynolds. They commissioned that in
00:34:54 ◼ ► October of last year. I reckon they'll probably have done what they needed the principal.
00:34:58 ◼ ► I don't know. Uh, so that's upstream. So we of course now move into the other regularly scheduled
00:35:06 ◼ ► uh, content of every episode. We are really segmented. This show is so segmented, uh, so much
00:35:13 ◼ ► format for us to stick to every week. Let's talk about Epic. Okay. I don't know how much longer
00:35:19 ◼ ► we're going to keep doing this, but there's still stuff happening. That's worth talking about. Yeah.
00:35:23 ◼ ► It feels like maybe we're running out of things to talk about that, that this is going into the,
00:35:27 ◼ ► into the courts and the wheels of justice slowly every week. And then things keep happening. So I
00:35:35 ◼ ► know this is the story of the summer. Um, basically to bring you up to speed, epic one, a temporary
00:35:47 ◼ ► to the unreal engine. So the concern of developers, um, not being able to access unreal is currently
00:35:54 ◼ ► not a thing that people need to worry about. Um, Apple did do what they promised. They terminated
00:36:00 ◼ ► Epic games as developer account on August 28th. So people can no longer download any of Epic's games.
00:36:07 ◼ ► This includes obviously Fortnite, but some others including like infinity blade, which Apple would
00:36:12 ◼ ► feature every single year. Um, it doesn't remove the game. So there were a lot of questions, right?
00:36:18 ◼ ► We didn't know what would actually happen when this happened. And we have the answers now. So
00:36:28 ◼ ► right. Which means when you upgrade your device, unless there's a, yeah, I'm not sure if it'll even
00:36:33 ◼ ► transfer over. Right. So I bet it won't buy a new device. No more Fortnite. Uh, the new Fortnite
00:36:40 ◼ ► season is not playable on iOS. Um, we knew this. What I didn't know is that the new season features
00:36:46 ◼ ► Marvel superheroes as a thing, which is I reckon a pretty, pretty opportune time to do it because
00:36:52 ◼ ► it's probably content that people want to play. Right. So like, it's not just a new season of
00:36:57 ◼ ► Fortnite. It's a new season of Fortnite, including Marvel characters. Um, on the day that they
00:37:03 ◼ ► removed it, Apple was promoting, uh, the PUBG mobile upcoming update for iOS. In case you're
00:37:09 ◼ ► not familiar, uh, PUBG, which is Player Unknown's Battleground was the originator, basically of the
00:37:15 ◼ ► battle royale gameplay that Fortnite emulated. And like, because Fortnite was not a battle royale
00:37:22 ◼ ► game when it started. Um, so PUBG was kind of the originator of that. You could say that they were
00:37:27 ◼ ► competitors, but really there's no competition, but it was still kind of funny that like, there's
00:37:31 ◼ ► this update coming for PUBG. It's not out yet. It comes out in like a week and a bit, but Apple
00:37:36 ◼ ► chose to promote it on the day that they got rid of Fortnite. That was not a coincidence. Um, and
00:37:42 ◼ ► of course, now that they have no developer account, this is an interesting wrinkle. Epic cannot process
00:37:48 ◼ ► payments via an app purchase. So all transactions in their iOS app currently go through Epic system
00:37:55 ◼ ► exclusively. So what I find in like a funny roundabout way, Apple is now ensuring by doing
00:38:02 ◼ ► this that all Fortnite players use an alternate payment method for purchases in the application,
00:38:08 ◼ ► because Apple's method is no longer available to Epic. For those who are using this, you know,
00:38:13 ◼ ► not current season version on iOS, right? Which is a small group, but it's going to be a decline
00:38:20 ◼ ► in number. And you know, like I've, I've seen people talking about this and I do find it as
00:38:24 ◼ ► an interesting thing. Like, are there going to be people, are they going to be kids that
00:38:32 ◼ ► want a different device now? I don't know. Like, but it could be a thing, you know, like,
00:38:36 ◼ ► it's the biggest game. Uh, one of the biggest games, like it could, I mean, is it going to be
00:38:44 ◼ ► noticeable? Probably not. But is there a thing where this is the type of stuff that turns some
00:38:51 ◼ ► people away from Apple? Yeah, possibly, but we're not really going to know the answers to that,
00:38:56 ◼ ► but it is this whole thing, this whole thing that Apple's up to at the moment, um, not just in
00:39:03 ◼ ► relation to Fortnite, but all of the stuff that we've been talking about over the last couple of
00:39:07 ◼ ► months, um, about app review and stuff like I continue to think that Apple is playing a very
00:39:14 ◼ ► peculiar game. Yeah. Uh, but where are we going to go from here? So more time in court, the
00:39:20 ◼ ► restraining order, uh, about the unreal engine based, uh, account developer account is just
00:39:26 ◼ ► temporary. They're going to be back in September to create a final ruling on it. And then of course,
00:39:31 ◼ ► there's the original lawsuit, but that's going to take time. Yeah. All these things take time.
00:39:35 ◼ ► I wrote a piece last week at Mac world about this and I tried to take a different approach to it,
00:39:39 ◼ ► which is so much of this is sort of like, I'm with Epic, I'm with Apple. Everybody wants to like,
00:39:45 ◼ ► pick their side and who they're rooting for. And so I just wanted to take a step back and sort of
00:39:49 ◼ ► list all the things that we could get out of this from the user's perspective. And in doing that,
00:39:54 ◼ ► you know, basically what I found is, um, both sides have arguments about ways that they can
00:40:07 ◼ ► I don't look at this and say, I want Epic to win everything because everything that will happen
00:40:12 ◼ ► will be great. And I don't want Apple to win because everything will be great. Neither of
00:40:15 ◼ ► those is true. So, you know, the ones I came up with and we've talked about a lot of this stuff
00:40:20 ◼ ► is making it easier to buy stuff in apps is good for consumers. My examples are always Amazon,
00:40:25 ◼ ► the Kindle app and the Comixology app. Like if, if, if I can buy a movie in the Prime Video app,
00:40:32 ◼ ► why can't I buy it in the Comixology app? Why can't I buy a comic? And the answer is because Apple
00:40:38 ◼ ► made a very specific rule that allowed Prime Video to do in-app purchase, uh, using Amazon's method.
00:40:45 ◼ ► But only that category. Why? You know, because they wanted to make it as narrow as possible,
00:40:52 ◼ ► and they were making a deal with Amazon, but it's like Epic saying, we want to be able to offer
00:40:57 ◼ ► other payment methods in apps. Like I can see how that's good for consumers. Um, and if Apple has to
00:41:04 ◼ ► compete, it means potentially that prices will go down and that Apple will be pushed to compete and
00:41:09 ◼ ► make their experience even better in order to have people use Apple's system. So potentially you could
00:41:14 ◼ ► have lower prices and better experiences at the same time. You open up the doors to let anybody
00:41:21 ◼ ► do payment processing inside an app, and you are risking, uh, fraud and scams in terms of apps. And
00:41:27 ◼ ► in terms of payment processing, because when you spend money on the store now, you know,
00:41:31 ◼ ► it's going through Apple. And so you have a level of confidence that maybe you don't have.
00:41:36 ◼ ► And we could argue like some of the shady apps in the app store already, and they're using
00:41:41 ◼ ► subscriptions and in-app purchases and, you know, but at least you're not worried about your credit
00:41:45 ◼ ► card being stolen because who knows where it's going. Um, so Apple does provide some security
00:41:52 ◼ ► there. Um, then again, I, you know, you can list all the apps that just don't exist on iOS that
00:41:58 ◼ ► exist on the Mac. Because Apple's just decided we're not going to let those exist. And the
00:42:04 ◼ ► video game streaming services is a good example, but there are plenty of others. Emulators is one,
00:42:08 ◼ ► but like there are lots of them. There are, they're a backup utility, right? Like you can
00:42:12 ◼ ► use iCloud backup. There's no competing backup for iOS devices. And why? Because they're not allowed.
00:42:17 ◼ ► They're not allowed. That's it. They're just not allowed. And so there are lots of apps that never
00:42:22 ◼ ► get created, not just the ones that Apple has outlawed, but the ones that Apple has said,
00:42:26 ◼ ► you know, the developers have this chilling effect, right? Which is, I don't know if Apple
00:42:31 ◼ ► will approve this and you can work with Apple and you can talk to them about it, but how many apps
00:42:36 ◼ ► just never get developed because the developers are like, it's not worth the risk. Yeah. I had
00:42:41 ◼ ► an interesting thought about this a couple of days ago. Workflow. That was an application that we
00:42:47 ◼ ► thought would never get accepted into the app store. And my understanding is barely did right.
00:42:53 ◼ ► Like they had to change a lot of it and constantly had issues with app review because they were trying
00:42:58 ◼ ► to do too much. Apple bought that company because the app was so good. Right? So on that line,
00:43:06 ◼ ► think of how many great things could have existed. And this one only existed because the Workflow
00:43:13 ◼ ► team were a bunch of like very smart, very excitable young people. So they just went for
00:43:20 ◼ ► it anyway. Right? They're just like, oh, screw it. We'll go for it. But there could be companies
00:43:24 ◼ ► that have ideas that are larger companies that can't risk the company or risk a big part of the
00:43:29 ◼ ► company on creating this idea because if they spend all this time and money and effort on it,
00:43:35 ◼ ► it might not get accepted. And then they wasted their time. Right? And so on that note, right,
00:43:40 ◼ ► like some things are so good that they become part of the operating system, but they were always on
00:43:46 ◼ ► the edge of what could be approved in the first place. So what are we missing out on? What are
00:43:51 ◼ ► we missing? And what is Apple missing out on? Because they're not truly turning over the whole
00:43:56 ◼ ► idea of like, we can't wait to see what you'll do with it. They always say to developers, especially
00:44:02 ◼ ► provided what it does is within the rules that we set. And that's the challenge, right? Is I do
00:44:08 ◼ ► believe that if you have something that is an idea that is going to push the limits, you can talk to
00:44:14 ◼ ► people in developer relations and you can get them to say, yes, this is okay. And you can find a path.
00:44:20 ◼ ► Although again, that even then there have been stories of people who've been assured by Apple
00:44:26 ◼ ► that this is okay. And then when they submit it, it gets rejected. Yeah. That path is always a
00:44:30 ◼ ► temporary path. It is. And it is a risk you're taking. And that's a huge investment to make on
00:44:35 ◼ ► something that you don't have another really if Apple says no to your iOS app, there's nowhere
00:44:41 ◼ ► else to go. Right. And so how many opportunities does Apple miss by having these things that push
00:44:47 ◼ ► the boundaries and they just, they're never even discussed beyond internally somewhere because
00:44:54 ◼ ► there's too much fear of Apple. And let me tell you, what's been going on this summer is not
00:44:58 ◼ ► making that better. It's making it worse even now. And it's like that, I think that's a real crime.
00:45:12 ◼ ► and they run in iOS. And that's one of those things that I believe they had a difficult time
00:45:17 ◼ ► getting that approved. Pythonista with Python scripts, same kind of deal, right? That there
00:45:21 ◼ ► was a period where Apple's like, no, there's no code or programming on the store. And then,
00:45:26 ◼ ► you know, with all of these, it turned into kind of a, well, you can't have it preloaded. And like,
00:45:32 ◼ ► they've progressed over time, but all of these apps are kind of amazing and they really extend
00:45:40 ◼ ► what iOS can do. And yet there are more out there below the waterline that either can never be put
00:45:50 ◼ ► in the store or will never even be developed because of this. And, you know, not only does
00:45:56 ◼ ► Apple lose, but the users lose by not having that stuff available. So, you know, that's something
00:46:01 ◼ ► that having Apple have a complete lock on the store, you gotta say that is an issue that harms
00:46:08 ◼ ► consumers. But on the other side, like, allowing sideloading is a malware vector. And having other
00:46:15 ◼ ► app stores that you don't know who is setting them up, you might trust them, you might not. But like,
00:46:19 ◼ ► at least Apple, I think to a certain degree, is preventing bad stuff from getting on the platform,
00:46:34 ◼ ► which Apple is doing on the Mac, although there was a report I saw today about how Apple
00:46:37 ◼ ► actually approved a bit of malware. It got the notarization system approved it. And then when
00:46:43 ◼ ► they were notarization, it's not a person, right? It's a server, it's looking for certain things,
00:46:47 ◼ ► but if you can get something through that's malware, it'll still run without any warning.
00:46:52 ◼ ► Apple was able then to kill that when they were notified that it was malware because they can
00:46:57 ◼ ► revoke certification of it and then it just won't launch. But, you know, the unexpected consequences
00:47:03 ◼ ► of being told you have to allow sideloading, you know, I do think that Apple's argument that the
00:47:09 ◼ ► platform would have more threats is accurate. And would Apple even be allowed to do something
00:47:17 ◼ ► like notarization if they're put under a court order or an order from a regulator? Would something
00:47:26 ◼ ► even like notarization, which they're doing on the Mac, be considered too much intervention on
00:47:30 ◼ ► Apple's part? And if so, then you would even lose that as a possibility. So, you know, the end of my
00:47:37 ◼ ► little piece that I wrote and my little monologue here is I think the truth is that what frustrates
00:47:46 ◼ ► me about this scenario is I think Epic's arguments are self-serving, but they have an aspect that
00:47:52 ◼ ► absolutely would be better for users. Apple's arguments are self-serving, but there is an
00:47:58 ◼ ► aspect to them that is accurate. And the truth is in the middle. And in my mind, the best way
00:48:12 ◼ ► because I think that if they're forced, you're going to, like I mentioned with notarization,
00:48:17 ◼ ► you're going to end up with a law or a ruling that doesn't entirely understand the ramifications of
00:48:24 ◼ ► what it's doing. And we've seen this time and again with technology, you will end up in a place
00:48:29 ◼ ► where people are like, "Why can't they do this?" And they're like, "They can't. They were told not
00:48:33 ◼ ► to by the courts and they can't go back on it." It's like, but this is a very fundamental thing.
00:48:37 ◼ ► Well, they're not allowed to do that anymore and we all have to pay the price for it. So,
00:48:41 ◼ ► will Apple do something like that? You know, that's, if I'm rooting for anything in this
00:48:47 ◼ ► battle, it is that Apple feels under so much pressure that it has to make a bunch of concessions
00:49:04 ◼ ► Whether they will actually do that or just fight to the bitter end, I still don't know because
00:49:09 ◼ ► they're certainly behaving like a company that is going to just fight this till the end and they
00:49:13 ◼ ► want to continue complete control and they don't really, aren't really concerned by how they're
00:49:18 ◼ ► being viewed by a lot of people on the outside now. But anyway, my big point is, you know, Epic
00:49:25 ◼ ► and Apple both are making statements that have truth in them but also have ramifications that
00:49:33 ◼ ► they don't want to talk about that are bad for users. And that's why when I look at this whole
00:49:38 ◼ ► story, the story of the summer, I'm like, "Okay, like I want Apple to change some of its policies
00:49:45 ◼ ► because I think they're bad for users but I'm not sure that what Epic is doing is going to lead
00:50:07 ◼ ► bold statements. But even the things that they're making in the press, right? They're making their
00:50:12 ◼ ► case very clear and their case is not what I want it to be. Which is that they're gonna overhaul this
00:50:43 ◼ ► doesn't match reality. I think they are still using a playbook and still think of Apple
00:50:50 ◼ ► as something that is not what Apple is now. Either that, we should say this, either that
00:50:55 ◼ ► or they're just greedy and evil. They don't care. - I think that's part of the new image.
00:51:07 ◼ ► - Well, yeah. Like I said, Steve Jobs came back when Apple was in really dire shape and Steve
00:51:15 ◼ ► Jobs always felt this level of, you can call it greed, but certainly what it is, is this feeling
00:51:22 ◼ ► like Apple is owed for creating, yes, for creating its amazing everything. Anyone who benefits from
00:51:31 ◼ ► it financially owes Apple. Like actually owes Apple. And Steve Jobs always felt that and that
00:51:39 ◼ ► has continued. The challenge is, at some point early in the process, it's like, well, of course,
00:51:45 ◼ ► they put in all this work and they built this product that is groundbreaking and they built
00:51:48 ◼ ► this app store that has changed how consumers interact with software purchases. Of course,
00:51:53 ◼ ► they should get paid for it. And then you look, and that's 2008. And then you look at 2020 and
00:51:57 ◼ ► they're like the most valuable company in the world with hundreds of billions of dollars of cash
00:52:01 ◼ ► and they look like a greedy bully. And so the challenge is, that's on a continuum, right? And
00:52:12 ◼ ► yeah, we can portray it as, well, they're just greedy and evil, or we could portray it as,
00:52:20 ◼ ► well, culturally, their culture is from a time when they weren't and they don't realize it.
00:52:27 ◼ ► But the truth is, probably some of them are greedy and evil and some of them are just tied into the
00:52:31 ◼ ► culture. And we do live in a world where giant profit-seeking, publicly-owned corporations
00:52:38 ◼ ► giving up some potential profit is not what they're supposed to do, right? They're supposed to be
00:52:45 ◼ ► as greedy as possible on one level. And that's a problem. But I keep coming back to the pragmatic
00:52:59 ◼ ► Look, at the end of the day, they can be greedy and that is perfectly fine. I think the whole
00:53:06 ◼ ► reason why there's so many of us are getting so caught up in this is we have sided with Apple for
00:53:13 ◼ ► as long as we have because the beliefs of the company seem to match ours. And this is one where
00:53:19 ◼ ► it's like there's starting to be a splinter amongst the community that we are and what Apple
00:53:26 ◼ ► is wanting to do, which is to extract all the money and that starts to feel like it doesn't
00:53:31 ◼ ► make sense anymore. So my feeling is, look, do it if you want to. That's perfectly fine.
00:53:36 ◼ ► But my opinion of Apple as a company is changing. And I'm perfectly comfortable with that. But
00:53:43 ◼ ► expect me to be more critical of you as an entity. I will still use and love the product, but I stop
00:53:56 ◼ ► generate with your clean energy and environmental and all the other things that Apple does is like,
00:54:01 ◼ ► we want to leave this world a better place than we found it. Those are offsets. But if you are
00:54:09 ◼ ► perceived in a way that Epic is certainly trying to get everybody to perceive Apple as, then those
00:54:17 ◼ ► things get devalued. Those things become, well, okay, I'll put it this way. Those things may
00:54:24 ◼ ► always have been a smokescreen. They're definitely PR, but I do also think that there are some
00:54:30 ◼ ► fundamental beliefs Apple has. But they are seen as more as a cynical ploy, even than they're
00:54:42 ◼ ► And so Apple has gotten away for a long time with being able to say, well, our heart's in the right
00:55:03 ◼ ► Just from a PR standpoint. So it's difficult. Again, yes, they are well within their rights
00:55:10 ◼ ► to insist on every dollar that they feel they deserve. But they risk people thinking of them
00:55:19 ◼ ► less charitably, and they risk governments and regulators and judges coming down hard on them
00:55:34 ◼ ► As a company, and this is where the fiduciary responsibility changes a little bit if you're
00:55:40 ◼ ► Tim Cook, which is, I know you want all the money, but what you really don't want, I've said this
00:55:47 ◼ ► before, I'm going to say it again, maybe even every week, what you really don't want is an
00:55:51 ◼ ► outside force telling you here is a new set of rules, an outside force that doesn't really
00:55:55 ◼ ► understand your business and doesn't understand all the ramifications of what they're doing,
00:56:02 ◼ ► you don't want that. That's an existential crisis for Apple. So at some point you got to get down
00:56:07 ◼ ► off the horse and change your ways, not because you want to change them, but because the alternative
00:56:16 ◼ ► is so much worse. And I think the scary thing about looking at Apple right now is there seems
00:56:23 ◼ ► to be a streak within Apple, at least thus far, of resistance to change, even if it means that
00:56:28 ◼ ► they're going to face an existential threat and their products and the quality of their products
00:56:32 ◼ ► and the safety of their customers could get kind of wrecked permanently because of their sort of
00:56:40 ◼ ► spiteful attempt to hang on to as much cash as possible and as much control as possible.
00:57:04 ◼ ► Because you don't know what they're going to tell you to do. So the idea of playing with fire to
00:57:10 ◼ ► this level doesn't jive with this idea of trying to protect the company. - And again, I should say,
00:57:24 ◼ ► you never let anyone see you sweat, you never show a crack until the moment when you change,
00:57:34 ◼ ► but this time we really mean it. So it's possible that Apple knows that they need to do this
00:57:41 ◼ ► strategy, but they don't want it to be when the heat is on, they don't want Epic to be seen as
00:57:46 ◼ ► a victor, they want to do it in a way where they could look like they invented it, that may be,
00:57:51 ◼ ► but things are on fire right now and it's not going well for them and maybe it will settle down,
00:57:57 ◼ ► maybe it will, but I don't know, we'll find out. - This episode is brought to you by fully.
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01:00:21 ◼ ► One is that Apple is said to be producing their own custom designed graphics processes for an
01:00:27 ◼ ► Apple Silicon iMac planned for the second half of 2021. Reports say this will be the first ARM
01:00:34 ◼ ► iMac, but Ming-Chi Kuo has suggested that there will be one this year plus a MacBook Pro.
01:00:48 ◼ ► what graphics processes they're using? Are they just the embedded ones like iOS devices,
01:00:55 ◼ ► or are they going to use Intel ones? Are there no dedicated graphics processes before the iMac?
01:01:01 ◼ ► If that's the case, what happens to the MacBook Pro? It's all very confusing. So there's two choices,
01:01:04 ◼ ► right? Which is Apple could be using the... The way I'm choosing to read this rumor is that Apple
01:01:10 ◼ ► is building their own external GPU in order to soup up certain Macs with like much better graphics
01:01:24 ◼ ► that are on iOS devices. When you say external, you still mean inside of the case, but like the...
01:01:30 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean a discrete GPU, I guess is the phrase, right? Discrete GPU, which leads to options
01:01:37 ◼ ► for existing Macs between now and then if this report is correct, which is one, they're using
01:01:43 ◼ ► GPUs that are from existing PC GPU companies, like the discrete GPU that's in the 16-inch MacBook
01:02:00 ◼ ► the embedded graphics, integrated graphics that's on the existing chips that Apple designs.
01:02:05 ◼ ► Those are the options here. And I think if it's a MacBook Pro that they're coming out with this
01:02:09 ◼ ► fall, they must be using... Well, I don't know, but like I keep thinking, well, maybe that they've
01:02:14 ◼ ► built that to integrate with an external GPU, a discrete GPU. You know what? Maybe I need to
01:02:20 ◼ ► actually say the second one because it will help us have this whole conversation because...
01:02:26 ◼ ► So the China Times is also reporting that the first Apple Silicon Mac will be the return of
01:02:31 ◼ ► the 12-inch MacBook, which makes some sense, set to debut this year, but it will feature an A14X.
01:02:38 ◼ ► So not its own chip, right? Like it is a... What will be, as is said in this report from the China
01:02:47 ◼ ► Times, the chip that will be in the next iPad Pro. So they will share this chip. So when I read this,
01:02:54 ◼ ► I was like, huh, that isn't what I expected. But then I also thought, well, maybe not every Mac
01:02:59 ◼ ► needs its own Apple Silicon chip. Maybe a 12-inch MacBook would do perfectly fine. In fact,
01:03:09 ◼ ► So here's the thing. Ming-Chi Kuo's accuracy has made us sort of believe that what was going to
01:03:20 ◼ ► happen as a 13-inch MacBook Pro and an iMac were coming out this fall or early next year.
01:03:24 ◼ ► And that may yet happen. But what's funny about this report is it's mostly confusing because it
01:03:30 ◼ ► conflicts with Ming-Chi Kuo and he's proven to be very reliable. But this report is sort of what we
01:03:38 ◼ ► thought would have happened. Well, this also makes sense. Right before Ming-Chi Kuo's report,
01:03:43 ◼ ► I think everybody was figuring and honestly, everybody's been figuring for like five years now
01:03:49 ◼ ► that the first ARM Mac would be a 12-inch MacBook. Right? Everybody's thought that. And you could use
01:03:56 ◼ ► an iPad processor in it. And I did all that math with Apple Silicon. Like if you look at what the
01:04:01 ◼ ► A14X is shaping up to be just based on trends, that's a fast laptop all on its own with just the
01:04:09 ◼ ► iPad processor in it. It also makes sense because it gives Apple a little more time to roll out.
01:04:13 ◼ ► Because remember, they're rolling out these new processors for the iPad and for the iPhone this
01:04:17 ◼ ► fall. Having to roll out a new Mac processor that is different from them simultaneously,
01:04:26 ◼ ► that's a lot. Right? That's a lot. So could you get away with doing an initial release that's
01:04:30 ◼ ► using the same chip as in the iPad Pro? And then next year, you do a A14-based processor that's got
01:04:40 ◼ ► a little bit more for the Macs in 2021. It all actually makes more sense than Munchy Kuo's report.
01:04:47 ◼ ► That was Mark Gurman's report. That the first Mac chips will be based on the work of the A14.
01:05:01 ◼ ► specific features or you can use that as a starting point to just make this Mac. Now look,
01:05:06 ◼ ► this MacBook, it is rumoured, would have 15 to 20 hour battery life. Now that is unbelievable.
01:05:15 ◼ ► Right. And this is the thing we were talking about, we've been talking about this for ages,
01:05:19 ◼ ► right? That when they do this, they have to be able to say, "And now look what it can do."
01:05:25 ◼ ► And this is one of those things where it's like, "Here you go. Here's, as of before now,
01:05:31 ◼ ► unprecedented laptop battery time for our products. What about double? Do you like that?
01:05:36 ◼ ► Because it will do that." And look, an A14X will be more than enough. And maybe what we end up with
01:05:45 ◼ ► is this kind of dual approach where you have for maybe consumer grade laptops or consumer grade
01:05:55 ◼ ► products, even the entry level iMac, they run on the most powerful versions of the iOS chips.
01:06:13 ◼ ► Just to be clear, the A14X multi-processor, if it grows at the rate that the A series chips
01:06:19 ◼ ► have been growing, the A14X in multi-processor performance would probably be as fast or faster
01:06:35 ◼ ► And then for the professional products, you have distinctly tweaked and tuned processes.
01:06:50 ◼ ► Last time, the idea of it's going to be plugged in, right? And then you can change the way that
01:06:56 ◼ ► you build the chip and what you're optimizing for. So, you know, like, look, this is completely
01:07:02 ◼ ► right. We had our own thinking of how this would go, and it was this product. But then there were
01:07:09 ◼ ► some rumors from a credible source that changed our thinking. Plus coupled with the marketing
01:07:14 ◼ ► messages that Apple have been saying. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with them taking
01:07:20 ◼ ► for them really to be like the iPad Pro and the Mac. We're now going to make a chip that meets
01:07:26 ◼ ► both of these. It's not that like we're going to take the iPhone chip and tweak it to the iPad.
01:07:35 ◼ ► but we tweak it for the most power for these products. Because really the iPad Pro and the
01:07:41 ◼ ► entry-level laptop, they should be comparable in performance. Yeah, I mean, I could argue that the
01:07:47 ◼ ► iPad Pro should have more power than the entry-level Mac laptop, but certainly they should be in the
01:07:52 ◼ ► ballpark. And this is, I agree, I wonder if Ming-Chi Kuo's sources, because he hedged a little
01:07:58 ◼ ► bit and also said 2021, I wonder if his sources are actually pointing to another wave of Apple
01:08:02 ◼ ► Silicon that will probably actually be early next year and won't be the first one out the door,
01:08:07 ◼ ► and that this MacBook is the first one out the door. It'll be interesting to see who's right
01:08:10 ◼ ► here because you're right, the China Times report feels very much like conventional wisdom almost
01:08:17 ◼ ► about how Apple would lead into Apple Silicon. And that would be a great product for holiday quarter.
01:08:24 ◼ ► Having a super thin, light, fast, long battery life, a 12-inch laptop would be amazing. And it
01:08:30 ◼ ► logically makes sense to have the first Apple Silicon Mac be a Mac that doesn't replace
01:08:36 ◼ ► anything in the lineup. There is some logic to that, that the first one is its own thing.
01:08:48 ◼ ► it's not a MacBook Pro, it's not an iMac. This is the MacBook. Because the MacBook for a while,
01:08:56 ◼ ► actually pretty much for most of its life, has always started as like, this is the computer of
01:09:03 ◼ ► the future, right? In its own way, right? Like, it's doing things. Think back to the original
01:09:09 ◼ ► MacBook launch, they literally described it as, "We know how to design an iPad, let's apply the iPad
01:09:20 ◼ ► design language and understanding and make a Mac." Like, from the beginning, the MacBook was
01:09:26 ◼ ► considered, "From the people who brought you the iPad, here's a laptop." Right? That was always the
01:09:31 ◼ ► premise. To like the polycarbonate MacBook. To the plastic MacBook, yeah, sure. You know, but like,
01:09:35 ◼ ► yes, you're right. It's a thread that has run through this. So to have this, that's why we
01:09:41 ◼ ► always expected that this would be the prototypical ARM Mac, right? So it's fascinating. So I can't
01:09:48 ◼ ► decide whether I hear this China Times report and I'm like, "Aha, this makes more sense." Or if I
01:09:53 ◼ ► hear this China Times report and I think, "Oh, thank you China Times for validating my dream of
01:09:59 ◼ ► how I thought this would go and not the cold reality of how Meng Qiquo says this is going to
01:10:04 ◼ ► go." I don't know which one is, but it would make sense. It all does follow. It all does follow.
01:10:10 ◼ ► There's also some somewhat sketchy rumors of what could be an update to the iPad Air that I,
01:10:19 ◼ ► that even though they seem like kind of similarly, like I'm not sure what I think about this stuff,
01:10:32 ◼ ► I could see that as being the next iPad. So it's not sure whether this is replacing the iPad Air
01:10:38 ◼ ► or just the iPad, but it's probably a mixture of both. A 10.8 inch screen with smaller bezels,
01:10:45 ◼ ► flat sides, USB-C, single camera on the back, smart connector on the back, maybe Magic Keyboard
01:10:51 ◼ ► support, no Face ID, but Touch ID in the power button. That lines up to be pretty much what I
01:10:58 ◼ ► would expect from the next generation of standard iPad. Because it's modernizing it, it's giving it
01:11:06 ◼ ► the features that it needs, but it's not going too far. And also, I want Touch ID in the power
01:11:12 ◼ ► button of my iPhone. I would love that. Can you imagine if they somehow managed to pull that off
01:11:20 ◼ ► for this next iPhone? People would go wild for that, right? - Yeah, that would be a good one.
01:11:26 ◼ ► I think this is a good rumor in showing us, like, it's a rumor, I'm sure they have sources,
01:11:34 ◼ ► it also fits the extrapolation of what Apple has done before, which is Apple is on this kick of
01:11:45 ◼ ► have had for a little while. So creating an iPad Air that is cheaper than the smaller iPad Pro,
01:11:51 ◼ ► but still uses the accessories for the smaller iPad Pro, including with the smart connector rumor,
01:11:59 ◼ ► right, including the keyboard. - Hmm. I wonder if they've been big enough physically. - I don't know.
01:12:06 ◼ ► I mean, you would think they would make it so that they all use the same accessories. Like,
01:12:12 ◼ ► they do that now, right? There are accessories that are shared. So, interesting rumor, but the
01:12:19 ◼ ► bigger point is, you know, they cut costs, there's no Face ID, there's no, you know, LIDAR camera,
01:12:26 ◼ ► there's none of that stuff, but maybe it's the A12X or the A12Z in it, and so it's gonna have
01:12:33 ◼ ► the speed of the current iPads, but keep in mind those current iPads are gonna get replaced
01:12:37 ◼ ► probably next year with way more advanced iPads, and then this one will sit there for three or four
01:12:42 ◼ ► years with this technology in it. That's very Apple, that's very Tim Cook's Apple to do that
01:12:48 ◼ ► sort of thing, and I like it because it means that Apple is constantly making that mid-range iPad
01:12:56 ◼ ► better for people who want to take advantage of a lot of the features of the Pro, but where the Pro
01:13:01 ◼ ► is just too expensive. - I want an iPad Mini that's this, right? All of this stuff in an iPad Mini.
01:13:11 ◼ ► Like, not the smart connector, because I don't want to use a keyboard on there, but like,
01:13:16 ◼ ► get rid of the home button, you know, like, make the device physically smaller. - Make a modern
01:13:22 ◼ ► iPad Mini, essentially. - That's what I would like all of this on an iPad Mini, just for like,
01:13:28 ◼ ► general content type stuff, like, I think that would be a really cool iPad. I hope that they make
01:13:33 ◼ ► that. This episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Pingdom. Hey, do you have a website?
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01:15:04 ◼ ► "How do you prepare for your Parsley game sessions both as a player and as the computer?"
01:15:10 ◼ ► I'm going to, but this is a legit question I liked, but also a great way for me to remind
01:15:16 ◼ ► our listeners that we have published our text adventure special for the year. Every year,
01:15:22 ◼ ► for Relay FM members, we join up with CGP Grey, the Cortex Podcast, and together we make a
01:15:29 ◼ ► wonderful text adventure where me and Grey are the players, Jason is the computer, and we do an audio
01:15:34 ◼ ► based text adventure with lots of wonderful editing. That is now available for Relay FM members.
01:15:39 ◼ ► All Relay FM members. So if you're not supporting upgrade or Cortex directly, but some other show
01:15:44 ◼ ► or no show in particular, you still get it. You still get it. You don't have to be very particular.
01:15:52 ◼ ► And I'll put a link in the show notes to the, it's called the crossover feed. So if you are
01:15:58 ◼ ► Relay FM member and you don't know where the feed is, just click that link and it will open
01:16:02 ◼ ► straight away. You log in and you can get the feed immediately, which is super awesome.
01:16:06 ◼ ► But if you do want to become a Relay FM member, you want to get the special and you want to get
01:16:19 ◼ ► Well, I don't prepare as much as I used to because I've run the game enough that I understand
01:16:26 ◼ ► generally how it works. I do try to read through the game. In this case, we were playing a game
01:16:31 ◼ ► that I, that we did on the game show podcast on the incomparable. So I've actually heard this
01:16:36 ◼ ► game being played. So I've, I've heard a play through and I've read the book because these are
01:16:44 ◼ ► from Jared Sorenson is the guy's name. Memento-Mori.com is his website. We'll put a link
01:16:51 ◼ ► in the show notes. You can buy as PDFs or even as a printed book, these little games and then run
01:17:01 ◼ ► outside socially distanced, you could probably run them, but you could definitely do it with
01:17:04 ◼ ► your family or do it on zoom or something like that. And it's like the style of an old text
01:17:08 ◼ ► adventure, but you know, you're reading it. So it's like something that's not as complex as
01:17:14 ◼ ► something like Dungeons and Dragons. It's just a straight up kind of like you, you take turns
01:17:18 ◼ ► ordering the computer to do something and then the computer tells you what happens. So I don't
01:17:23 ◼ ► do a lot beyond that at this point. It really is just sort of like reading over the story and,
01:17:29 ◼ ► and seeing where the details are and then and then making sure. And then I always miss something like
01:17:36 ◼ ► I always miss something like, Oh, I should have not done that on this part. And we take some of
01:17:41 ◼ ► that stuff out in the editing, but but yeah, I try to read through it. So I'm not surprised when
01:17:45 ◼ ► somebody tries something I know if they can or can't do it. So I can react in the moment instead
01:17:49 ◼ ► of saying, hold on guys while I look that up and come back a minute later. So this year I did more
01:17:55 ◼ ► preparation than I usually do. And I listened back to one of the previous years text adventure
01:18:01 ◼ ► before playing. Didn't really help me in any way. I hope that it would, but it didn't. The thing that
01:18:08 ◼ ► that I, the thing that we have learned the most in playing these games is to have the ability to draw
01:18:14 ◼ ► a map. You really need to be able to map it out. Um, I found that to be very helpful other than
01:18:21 ◼ ► that, the way that the way that I go into this, like I go into anything is going with an open mind
01:18:26 ◼ ► when you want to play any game and just know that you're just going to roll with the punches and
01:18:30 ◼ ► have fun. Like that's how you should play games, especially while playing stuff. Cause even though
01:18:34 ◼ ► these are text adventures, me and Greg can't help, but play them like we're all playing games.
01:18:38 ◼ ► Indeed. Stitch asks, given what's been learned from WWDC and other product launches in the age
01:18:44 ◼ ► of COVID, what products do you think will be in the September event and how do you think Apple
01:18:50 ◼ ► will present it? I think WWDC is a model and everybody thought it was successful. And I think
01:18:56 ◼ ► we're going to see that again. I think we're going to see a produced Apple presentation. They're
01:19:00 ◼ ► probably producing it right now that goes into the details of whatever products they choose to launch.
01:19:08 ◼ ► I think so they could, they could do a bunch of shorter things, but I think they want everybody's
01:19:13 ◼ ► attention. So my gut feeling is that they'll do an event. I know this is boring, but I think that
01:19:19 ◼ ► that there's still going to be some, uh, reflections of past choices in what Apple does.
01:19:29 ◼ ► but the iPhone event and they're going to have the new iPhones. Remember the rumors are there
01:19:34 ◼ ► going to be four of them. You think September, like, but super late September? I don't know.
01:19:38 ◼ ► I mean, it really, I, I, when I say a September event, I mean, what we've come to think of as a
01:19:43 ◼ ► September event, it's an iPhone event. It'll happen when I think what you want to do if your Apple is
01:19:49 ◼ ► not have it be so much time between your announcement and either availability or certainly
01:19:55 ◼ ► ability to order for these products. Cause you want it, you want people to get swept up in iPhone
01:19:59 ◼ ► excitement. And if they hold an event in a couple of weeks and then the stuff isn't available for
01:20:07 ◼ ► two months, I mean, yeah, like you could be an event in September that if the rumors are to be
01:20:17 ◼ ► going to be, there's going to be some lateness there, but like, I think, I think if you're Apple,
01:20:21 ◼ ► you want to follow your existing plan, which is you're going to do an event and that Friday,
01:20:26 ◼ ► you're going to open orders and the following Friday, they're going to ship, right? If you're
01:20:30 ◼ ► more than, if you're more than, yeah, something, if you're more than two weeks out from shipping,
01:20:34 ◼ ► you probably shouldn't do your event then the beauty of it is there it's a prerecorded event.
01:20:38 ◼ ► So until they announced that they're doing it and they don't need anybody to make travel plans,
01:20:43 ◼ ► they can announce it the week of the day before. Like they don't, they don't need to spend a lot
01:20:48 ◼ ► of time pre-announcing it, which worries me about our draft, by the way, we're going to have to
01:20:52 ◼ ► figure that out. If they don't give us a week's notice, we're going to have to like do a bonus
01:20:54 ◼ ► draft episode just to get them in. I would think they would give a week's notice. So I would,
01:21:02 ◼ ► if they're, if they know they're not going to have products to ship until October, then maybe
01:21:06 ◼ ► they push it back to October. But I think what they want is that early event, that September
01:21:11 ◼ ► event, and it's going to be iPhone and it's going to be anything else that they've got. That's like
01:21:15 ◼ ► a consumer announcement that they want to make that's sort of broad. They could do iPads and
01:21:22 ◼ ► Macs in that event too, and just kind of combine everything into the big Apple fall product
01:21:28 ◼ ► showcase spectacular. And, you know, I think there's an argument to be made that you want
01:21:35 ◼ ► to roll. If you've got a Apple Silicon MacBook, that maybe what you want to do is put that in the
01:21:40 ◼ ► iPhone event, even though it's not an iPhone, just because there are more eyes on the iPhone event
01:21:44 ◼ ► than any other event Apple does. You could also argue that they'd be better off saving that for
01:21:49 ◼ ► an October event. Again, I'm using the term October event might not actually be in October.
01:21:54 ◼ ► They've done it like at Halloween before. So sometimes it's an, yeah, it's the later events,
01:22:00 ◼ ► the late October, early November, maybe event because iPads and Macs in that event aren't
01:22:06 ◼ ► overshadowed by the iPhones. So if I had to pick, that's what I'd say is they'll keep doing that
01:22:11 ◼ ► method where, you know, they'll do, um, the iPhone and then some other stuff they want to announce,
01:22:16 ◼ ► but they're going to hold the iPad and the Mac for later because they want to make a bigger splash,
01:22:22 ◼ ► even though they could make one big splash. I think the argument is I'd rather have an event
01:22:27 ◼ ► that people pay attention to, but maybe not as much as the iPhone that features the Mac
01:22:32 ◼ ► rather than have the Mac be a footnote to the iPhone, even though a lot of people would see it,
01:22:37 ◼ ► it would be a footnote. All the, all the news stories, all the conversations going to be about
01:22:41 ◼ ► the iPhone. It's not going to be about the Mac. And honestly, if you think the Mac is really hot,
01:22:45 ◼ ► do you want the Mac stealing away focus from a, maybe a little bit boring iPhone announcement?
01:22:52 ◼ ► Like, no, you don't want that either. So I think keeping them separate is probably the way to go,
01:22:57 ◼ ► but they'll look like WWDC, you know, I think that that's the model. I think it will look like that
01:23:03 ◼ ► for sure. I think they nailed it. And, and so doing more of that, where it's just around Apple park
01:23:08 ◼ ► and, uh, showing off their products, like they've shown they can do that. So do that again,
01:23:14 ◼ ► maybe we're pre drafting here, but I would say, uh, they will, they will have the first
01:23:19 ◼ ► Silicon Mac with the iPhone, similarly to what they've done with like the iPad pro in the past.
01:23:23 ◼ ► You want people to see it, put it in the iPhone event. So, well, that's, I, like I said, I think
01:23:28 ◼ ► that's a valid way to go. I think the challenge there is that it gets lost in the, in the iPhone.
01:23:33 ◼ ► And if you want to focus and the other thing is, do you want to produce two of these? Like
01:23:38 ◼ ► on one level, like what does it matter if you produce two of these, you get more hype that way.
01:23:42 ◼ ► And it's not like you're asking people to travel again. You're not, you can, you can, if, if you
01:23:46 ◼ ► say we're going to do a Mac segment and an iPad segment and an iPhone segment and all that, like,
01:23:50 ◼ ► why not do two shorter events spaced apart by three weeks and let everybody kind of digest
01:23:57 ◼ ► event one before you do an event, the second event, like why not spread it out a little bit?
01:24:03 ◼ ► But I, again, the counter argument is everybody, these events take longer to make. I'm sure they
01:24:09 ◼ ► do. I'm sure they do. But I guess what I'm saying is if you had all that content that you were going
01:24:12 ◼ ► to need to make anyway for, if the Mac is in the iPhone event, the counter argument would be,
01:24:18 ◼ ► take it out, give yourself a little more time and do it a month later. But both, both are valid.
01:24:25 ◼ ► If I had to pick, I would say there'll be two events. And if Myke had to pick, he'd say,
01:24:28 ◼ ► they're going to pile them all in the iPhone. So we'll see. Maybe that'll be a draft pick.
01:24:39 ◼ ► this came up because I was talking about keyboards and the members discord and you said,
01:24:48 ◼ ► okay, immediately followed that entire quote up with, uh, and I was going to upgrade. Well, so
01:24:54 ◼ ► you do kind of know because we did an episode of the show in January where I'd started to dip my
01:25:01 ◼ ► toe into it. Do you remember that? I was in, I remember it fondly because I was, I was in LA then
01:25:07 ◼ ► that was our Myke live from Hollywood episode. Right. So when I remember me sitting there and
01:25:13 ◼ ► looking out at this beautiful view, Oh, that trip, I'm just slight aside. So happy that I took that
01:25:19 ◼ ► trip. It was like in January. I think it was like late January. Um, because it was the last trip
01:25:25 ◼ ► that I got to take. Um, and it was a good one. Uh, so you did kind of know, but the thing you don't
01:25:31 ◼ ► know is like, I have, I'm very into keyboards now. Like very, very much into mechanical keyboards.
01:25:42 ◼ ► I know what that, I know what that lowering of the voice means. Cause I've been there and I've
01:25:46 ◼ ► spent that money. It's like, I, I'm into it now. It's big time because it's, so this goes back to
01:25:53 ◼ ► there was a, I don't know if I've, I already did this a couple of days ago because basically
01:26:00 ◼ ► it's came up cause I did one of the streams that I did, um, for the fundraising that we had a
01:26:05 ◼ ► milestone goal and I was started talking about keyboard stuff and I'm going to do, uh, some point
01:26:10 ◼ ► in the next couple of weeks, I will do another milestone goal that if we hit in the fundraising,
01:26:14 ◼ ► I'm going to do a stream showing off the keyboard stuff that I've bought and gotten out to recently.
01:26:20 ◼ ► Um, because this all came up when like somebody wrote into an ask cortex question and said like,
01:26:25 ◼ ► why doesn't Myke like keyboards to this level? Like he does pens cause there's a lot of like
01:26:31 ◼ ► crossovers with the pen and pen artisan communities there is with the keyboard community.
01:26:36 ◼ ► And then now I've started getting into that and like, it's like a whole big thing. Um, there's
01:26:41 ◼ ► like, I'm watching streamers, like Twitch streamers and YouTubers and I guess like a whole thing.
01:26:47 ◼ ► Um, but yeah, I'm very, I'm very into keyboards now, Jason, even to the point where like I've
01:26:52 ◼ ► bought switches, like just see, I'm at a level you didn't even know. Like I am into the, like,
01:27:08 ◼ ► I've bought lubricant for the switches and like cases and I'm gonna, I'm going the whole hog,
01:27:21 ◼ ► Is that no, no. Interesting. Some like I do have a mechanical ergonomic keyboard that I love called
01:27:28 ◼ ► the stigma raise, but they're not all, uh, because I've been using the key cron K six very frequently.
01:27:35 ◼ ► Okay. And um, I've been, and I've had no ergonomic issues from that. And I think that's because of
01:27:42 ◼ ► the fact that like I, I am not somebody who writes for long periods of time and I am still like using
01:27:50 ◼ ► various input devices, right? So I'll use a track pad and a Wacom tablet and a mouse like I use,
01:27:56 ◼ ► and then also a keyboard. So I think that mixture has still been very good for me. I think what I've
01:28:01 ◼ ► learned is typing wasn't the issue for my RSI. Um, it's the input devices. Yeah. But at the same
01:28:07 ◼ ► time as I'm changing things like this, I'm still using, um, the cables that I'm using right now,
01:28:12 ◼ ► I'm still using cherry MX brown switches, which have a low actuation force, you know, to press
01:28:16 ◼ ► very hard to register. But some of the I've now like a switch, I set switches that I've bought
01:28:23 ◼ ► have a stronger actuation force. So I'm going to like cautiously, like, can I go up? If not,
01:28:28 ◼ ► I'll just stick with cherry Browns. I like them, but like, those are my favorites. Those are the
01:28:34 ◼ ► ones I like the best. They have the, I mean, they have the right amount of like sound to me. I like
01:28:38 ◼ ► the sound. I like the feel. They don't take a lot of work, but I also want to try out some different
01:28:43 ◼ ► stuff, right? Like there are tactical switch and I want to try some linear switches. So yeah, I am,
01:28:48 ◼ ► this is a hobby that I can really get behind. Um, but I am, uh, it's gotten to the point where
01:28:59 ◼ ► it's like, okay, I'm, I've got a bunch of stuff. It's going to be my base level. And now I need
01:29:04 ◼ ► to set a budget on this hobby. Right? So for me, the keyboard thing is, uh, so I had my initial
01:29:12 ◼ ► exploration of the keyboard, right? So that was what kind of keyboards do I like? What kind of
01:29:16 ◼ ► switches do I like? I bought a switch tester. I bought a keyboard with, uh, with cherry blue
01:29:22 ◼ ► switches. I didn't like them. I like the cherry Brown better. I've stuck with the Brown. I
01:29:27 ◼ ► discovered that I liked, um, that I wanted narrow keyboards cause I didn't want, and this is an
01:29:34 ◼ ► ergonomic thing. I didn't want to reach far from my track pad. I wanted it right next to the
01:29:38 ◼ ► keyboard. I don't, I don't want to spread out my wingspan. Right. And so I discovered that I like
01:29:43 ◼ ► 60% and 70% keyboards, which don't have, um, the extra keys on the side. 60% don't have a function
01:29:51 ◼ ► row. I kind of think as much as I like how tiny a 60% keyboard is, I kind of like having the
01:30:04 ◼ ► I, I have. In fact, I think my first keyboard might've been a 65% where it was, but, but the
01:30:09 ◼ ► problem with some of those, some of these keyboards is that they, um, the layouts are weird and this,
01:30:14 ◼ ► I'm getting to it because the thing that I really have discovered that I like is key caps.
01:30:19 ◼ ► That what I really like is, so I've gone through the, what kind of switches do I like and what
01:30:25 ◼ ► kind of, of, of keyboard size do I like? And, and although I still have, like, I have these
01:30:31 ◼ ► two key cron ones that are not using Cherry, they're using Gateron knockoff switches and
01:30:35 ◼ ► they're not quite as good, but they're good. And those are Bluetooth. So they're pretty good. Um,
01:30:39 ◼ ► but I'm still using the Vortex Race, um, as my primary keyboard at my Mac and it's USB,
01:30:54 ◼ ► right? You can get like custom cables and I'm sure, I'm sure you can. I'm sure you can. So
01:31:00 ◼ ► my point is key caps, key caps are where, are where I am forming my opinions of what, like,
01:31:06 ◼ ► what kind of key cap printing I like, what kind of key cap material I like, but really it's also
01:31:11 ◼ ► about the color and like, and that's where they get you. That's where they get you is it's not just
01:31:16 ◼ ► like, Oh, there's a new keyboard I can buy. It's like, Ooh, but how would you like blue keys? And
01:31:22 ◼ ► you're like, I would like blue keys. Can I have blue keys please? And it goes from there on and
01:31:26 ◼ ► on. And then there are sites like WASD where you can do custom, you can just literally design your
01:31:31 ◼ ► own keys and key caps. There's, yeah, but there's a real beauty is in, uh, like the group by key caps,
01:31:38 ◼ ► which is like, they're beautiful sets, but then you pay for them and you wait like six to seven
01:31:44 ◼ ► months. It's true. And yeah, I'm in a couple of group buys and I have a set which I should get by
01:31:50 ◼ ► the end of the year, which I'm excited about, uh, which is called a GMK Future Funk. This was
01:31:55 ◼ ► something I ordered this like months ago. Um, and I'm going to get it at some point. So, um, I am,
01:32:02 ◼ ► uh, this is, this is where I am, uh, in my life, uh, right now is, is very keyboards. And like,
01:32:09 ◼ ► I've made a goal that by the end of the year, um, I want to try and, and get a kit and do like,
01:32:18 ◼ ► try and solder, like, you know, like sort of some switches. I see this as a fun hobby that I can,
01:32:27 ◼ ► like a, like a hand, hands on hobby that I can do. Like, I feel like this is the kind of thing
01:32:34 ◼ ► that I could do and would enjoy. So I have a strict no soldering policy, so it's not gonna happen
01:32:39 ◼ ► for me, but you don't have to write like there was a lot of, a lot of options, even in like the, the
01:32:45 ◼ ► like the maker keyboards, like the small batch keyboards where they're called what's hot swappable.
01:32:50 ◼ ► And that's what I have in mind where you can switch out the switches and you can just pop
01:32:55 ◼ ► them out and break new ones. Right. So, um, for people who have listened to all of this and are
01:32:59 ◼ ► wondering like, is there anything here that I would be interested in? What I would say is first off
01:33:04 ◼ ► there, you can buy on Amazon, you can buy it from WASD. You can buy what is called a key.
01:33:13 ◼ ► smallest keyboard that a, like a mouse would use. It's, it's like a little, it's like five or six
01:33:19 ◼ ► keys on a little rectangle. And the idea is that it's got all the switches in there and you can
01:33:24 ◼ ► sit there and touch all the switches and feel them and hear how they sound and exactly. And make a
01:33:31 ◼ ► guess as to what might please you. It may not, you may not be right. It's hard to tell, but that will
01:33:36 ◼ ► give you some idea. And then you can choose because there are different kinds of key switches and they
01:33:39 ◼ ► have different sounds and they have different feels. Um, so that's something you could do.
01:33:43 ◼ ► In terms of recommendations, I would say, like I said before, the Vortex Race 3 is my favorite one.
01:33:49 ◼ ► Currently it's a 70% keyboard. So it's got arrow keys because arrow keys are non-negotiable for me.
01:33:59 ◼ ► If you want a Bluetooth keyboard, Keychron makes a bunch. And like I said, I don't like them as
01:34:05 ◼ ► much as the Vortex, but they make them in all the different sizes and they're Bluetooth and they
01:34:10 ◼ ► are Mac friendly and they come with Mac friendly key caps. And there's a Mac friendly setting.
01:34:14 ◼ ► There are ones that have sparkly backlights and there are ones that just have regular black,
01:34:18 ◼ ► uh, white backlights, which has, um, RGB and has the option to be plugged in. And I have
01:34:26 ◼ ► mine plugged in just because the Bluetooth is good, but I didn't want to have to charge it.
01:34:34 ◼ ► the K2 is larger because it has a function row, but that's personal preference. They also make
01:34:39 ◼ ► them that have the big old number pad and stuff, which I despise, but they're there if you want
01:34:43 ◼ ► them. So those are, those are Mac friendly options. Um, and as, although I don't like them as much as
01:34:50 ◼ ► I like the Vortex, they're also cheaper. So, and they've got, if you like sparkly backlighting,
01:34:55 ◼ ► if you, if you dream of having a keyboard where every time you touch a key, it lights up and then
01:35:00 ◼ ► slowly fades away. So as you type, you create like a light show, which I thought was a really
01:35:04 ◼ ► fun feature until I tried it. And then I thought I never want that on. It's a fun thing to show
01:35:17 ◼ ► you know, like this is, you can really, you can really get into customizing this thing.
01:35:29 ◼ ► If you'd like to send in a question, uh, for a future episode of the show, just send out a tweet
01:35:34 ◼ ► with the hashtag ask upgrade or use question Mark ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord,
01:35:39 ◼ ► which you can get access to. If you sign up for upgrade plus go to get upgrade plus.com
01:35:44 ◼ ► and you can support the show, get a bunch of wonderful extras. Thank you so much to our
01:35:48 ◼ ► sponsors this week, Pingdom, fully and things. If you want to find our work online, you go to
01:35:53 ◼ ► relay.fm/shows. You can find this show and many more. If you want to find Jason stuff, go to sixcolors.com
01:35:59 ◼ ► the incomparable.com. Jason is @jsnell, J S N E double L. I am @imike, I M Y K E. Thank you so much
01:36:07 ◼ ► for listening to this week's episode of upgrade and we'll be back next time. Until then, say