00:02:43 ◼ ► um, and there's also Peacock. So, uh, Studio Ghibli movies are coming to Netflix, Jason!
00:07:17 ◼ ► I hope it can't, we can get, I can do, like, the star subscription here and get it, but
00:09:23 ◼ ► So, uh, that's cool. This is big for them. This is big for Jennifer Aniston, too, right?
00:09:56 ◼ ► within the last couple of years. Yeah, I've seen a few, a few critics say that this is Apple's
00:15:57 ◼ ► developed series. Uh, what else do we have? Ah, "Amazing Stories," it's coming on March
00:25:11 ◼ ► or if I'm gonna have to pay full ten dollars a month to not see ads, because I don't want to see the ads.
00:29:45 ◼ ► have a third person picking just for variety. Don't do an eight-round draft for two people.
00:29:48 ◼ ► Do a four-round draft for three people. That's what we've learned. Yes. Yeah, and then we get a
00:29:53 ◼ ► top 10 list with two alternates, so that's nice. Everyone loves a good old top 12. So Steven,
00:29:59 ◼ ► as guest, would you like to pick? So I guess we should say there's no real rules to this.
00:30:03 ◼ ► I think having spoken about this previously, we have come to the conclusion, not that we have
00:30:10 ◼ ► shared any real information with each other, that the three of us are all picking keynotes
00:30:14 ◼ ► for very specific reasons that are specific to the three of us, which is going to be interesting to
00:30:19 ◼ ► see how that unfolds, but that's where we are. I didn't want it to be one of those where it's like
00:30:25 ◼ ► the best or the most important. Like I sort of feel like it's the most significant or interesting
00:30:34 ◼ ► in some way, but you may have a different definition and that's fine. I have a completely
00:30:42 ◼ ► but it's still a draft, so if somebody else takes those picks before you, then you don't get to pick
00:30:47 ◼ ► them. So Steven, what is your first pick in this draft that we have concocted? I will say I've
00:30:53 ◼ ► watched a lot of YouTube over the last couple of weeks, like refreshing on this stuff, and
00:30:58 ◼ ► I'm going to start at the beginning of the decade with the iPad introduction. Oh, darn it. In
00:31:04 ◼ ► January 2010. Yep, that was my number one. That was very clearly the top pick for everyone,
00:31:09 ◼ ► I think for us. Yeah, very. Yeah, for reasons that anniversary is next week. I'm planning some stuff
00:31:14 ◼ ► for that, but the reason I like this keynote so much is that yes, it's a new whole new category
00:31:22 ◼ ► and that's really fun, but it is so different in the way that Jobs delivered it. You know,
00:31:28 ◼ ► he had that that really fancy black chair on the side table and he really used the iPad
00:31:38 ◼ ► doing his demos the way that people use an iPad, right? It's sitting down, it's sort of an intimate
00:31:50 ◼ ► and I just love the showmanship in that because it's sort of understated, and we all know,
00:31:55 ◼ ► like if this had been decades of all time, the iPhone keynote would have won, right? Because
00:32:01 ◼ ► that's, I think, the best Steve Jobs keynote apples ever did. Sure. But the iPad one is so
00:32:11 ◼ ► and it always jumps out at me as something special. Yeah, I think this is the consensus
00:32:15 ◼ ► number one, it sounds like, and since you got to go first, you got to pick it. But yeah, I think
00:32:19 ◼ ► that for all the reasons you said, looking back on that now, and I'm sure we'll get more of that
00:32:23 ◼ ► in the next week as we barrel toward that 10th anniversary, some of the assumptions that we all
00:32:28 ◼ ► made back then are kind of funny now, like oh, Steve Jobs has just saved books and newspapers
00:32:35 ◼ ► and things like that. But at the same time, like taking the iPad and sitting in a chair and kind
00:32:40 ◼ ► of flipping around on the iPad, like yeah, that's the iPad experience. I live that every day, so
00:32:45 ◼ ► they got that part right. Yeah, it was done so well, like I remember like Steve looking,
00:32:52 ◼ ► you know, down over his glasses, that kind of thing, looking at the iPad. But I think the thing
00:32:56 ◼ ► that was so good about that event and the reasons that you've mentioned for doing this was I think
00:33:01 ◼ ► without an extended demo like that, the iPad would not have gotten across, it just wouldn't have
00:33:07 ◼ ► gotten across to people, because it did look just like a big iPhone, right? Yeah. And so I think
00:33:14 ◼ ► they really had to spend some time in that event demonstrating how it would be used, and Steve
00:33:20 ◼ ► standing at a table and doing the demo like they've done for every other one of their products and for
00:33:26 ◼ ► every iPad since, right? Like later on, the iPad, they're not sitting down in a little leather chair,
00:33:32 ◼ ► right? Like it just found its way onto the demo table, and they would do their thing because
00:33:37 ◼ ► people understand how it's used by then. But they really, it was like a master stroke of whoever came
00:33:42 ◼ ► up with the idea of demonstrating it that way. Plus the iPad was just a fascinating product.
00:33:48 ◼ ► Like the iPad introduction was, is also particularly, maybe I'm tipping my hat here, meaningful to me
00:33:56 ◼ ► because it was this which made me decide I wanted to start podcasting because I had so many views
00:34:03 ◼ ► that I wanted to get out that I needed an avenue for them. And so I've been podcasting for 10 years
00:34:12 ◼ ► in April, and that was when the iPad came out. So my first episode of any show that I ever did,
00:34:17 ◼ ► which doesn't live online anymore because I don't want it to, included like my thoughts on the
00:34:24 ◼ ► first ever iPad because it came out in the UK. We actually came out around that time and then we got
00:34:28 ◼ ► it in UK a little bit later. So that was a particularly meaningful event for me. My first
00:34:33 ◼ ► pick carrying on that line is WWDC 2013. This is notable for two main things, iOS 7, which is pretty
00:34:44 ◼ ► big. I mean, when you think about it in the grand scheme of things, right? Like the iOS 7 was a
00:34:49 ◼ ► pretty meaningful, uh, operating system. It changed a lot, right? It was kind of infamous now, I think
00:34:56 ◼ ► is probably the better way of putting it. Uh, WWDC 2013 also included the trashcan Mac Pro,
00:35:02 ◼ ► everybody's favorite Mac. Oh yeah. So very, looking at it from this level, infamous up and down WWDC
00:35:11 ◼ ► 2013. But the reason I have picked it is it was my first WWDC that I went to. So this keynote was the
00:35:17 ◼ ► first keynote I'd ever watched. I wasn't my own. Like I watched it in a hotel room with a bunch of
00:35:22 ◼ ► friends, including Steven. Um, and Jason, it may have been the first time me and you met was at
00:35:28 ◼ ► WWDC 2013. Seems likely, I think, um, at the Mac, it was, it was the Mac world party. You invited us,
00:35:35 ◼ ► which is wonderful. And that was super exciting. So that, you know, WWDC 2013 was one of the best
00:35:42 ◼ ► times that I've ever had in my entire life because I got to do something I'd always wanted to do.
00:35:47 ◼ ► And I got to meet a lot of friends that I've made online, start building relationships that again,
00:35:52 ◼ ► got me to, to where I am today. So that's a very important keynote for me in that respect.
00:35:59 ◼ ► Yeah, it makes sense. That was, uh, the, I remember very clearly sitting there when they
00:36:04 ◼ ► played that first video showing the new interface in iOS seven and just kind of not believing what
00:36:11 ◼ ► I was seeing. That was a beautiful video though. It really was. It, it, it, it suggested a
00:36:18 ◼ ► potential future that was spectacular that, uh, you know, didn't really live up to it, but it was a
00:36:24 ◼ ► super important moment for iOS, right. Of, of kind of saying, look, we built the original iOS based
00:36:31 ◼ ► on all these interface assumptions. And we can, we can talk about the pros and cons of the flat
00:36:35 ◼ ► interface and they had to walk a lot of stuff back, but I do think it's important for the
00:36:38 ◼ ► platform to every now and then say, Hey, everything we do is based on assumptions we made, like in
00:36:44 ◼ ► this case before the product actually shipped and we need to refresh it and do something different.
00:36:51 ◼ ► And, you know, there was a lot of fallout from that, but it was a super important moment in
00:36:54 ◼ ► the evolution of iOS. Yeah, that, that was on my list for the reasons that Jason and Myke,
00:37:02 ◼ ► you both shared it such an important event and it gave us an infamous Mac. And it was the first
00:37:09 ◼ ► WBC that I attended. I had been to Mac world the year before, but it was a, it was fun to be there.
00:37:15 ◼ ► And, you know, it's wild to me that that, that that is seven years ago now, six and a half years
00:37:23 ◼ ► ago now, and that that computer just went away. It's just, there's so many weird things about
00:37:27 ◼ ► this keynote and it definitely deserves to be in this list. Good and bad. Yeah. Good and bad.
00:37:33 ◼ ► All right, Jason, what's your number one? All right. I, I have a few that were at the top of
00:37:39 ◼ ► my list, including the iPad, but I think I'm going to go with one that's a couple notches down just
00:37:45 ◼ ► because I think it's important as an event and also kind of important personally. And that is
00:37:51 ◼ ► the September, 2014 event at the Flint center in Cupertino. That was the launch of the Apple watch.
00:37:59 ◼ ► Now keep in mind, this was months before the Apple watch actually shipped to the point where there is
00:38:05 ◼ ► an event in 2015, that's still available for those who want to pick it, where they explained again,
00:38:10 ◼ ► what the Apple watch was because it had been a while since it had been like six months since
00:38:15 ◼ ► they introduced the Apple watch, but they wanted to have the Apple watch debut in front of the
00:38:20 ◼ ► big audience that was waiting for the new iPhone. So the iPhone six and six plus also at this time.
00:38:26 ◼ ► So this is the big, big iPhones, the generation that still exists is still kicking around as the
00:38:32 ◼ ► iPhone eight, but like, so this was the beginning of a brand new generation of iPhone hardware
00:38:36 ◼ ► design. It was the introduction of the Apple watch Apple pay was part of this equation as well.
00:38:42 ◼ ► You may also remember it as the event where, uh, Steve and Bono touched fingers. Oh my God,
00:38:49 ◼ ► was that that one? And you got an album and put in your iTunes library or sorry, sorry,
00:38:54 ◼ ► Tim. Yeah. Steve, Steve also had a Bono moment that people don't remember that was the previous
00:38:59 ◼ ► decade, right? That was the California theater iPod photo event that there were two U2 events.
00:39:03 ◼ ► Don't forget two U2 events at Apple. Why not just keep repeating it this decade? Maybe they'll come
00:39:08 ◼ ► back again and put another album in our libraries anyway. Um, but the other reason that I picked
00:39:14 ◼ ► this is because this was my last hurrah event. This was the last event that I did. Uh, executives
00:39:20 ◼ ► at IDG decided that they were going to lay everybody off on September 9th. And I pointed
00:39:27 ◼ ► out that we would all be at an Apple event then, and it might not be the best time to lay everybody
00:39:30 ◼ ► off. And they said, okay, we'll do it on the 10th. So I went to this event knowing it would be the
00:39:36 ◼ ► last thing that I did at Mac world and that most of the people I was with at the event would also
00:39:43 ◼ ► be losing their jobs the next day. So it was super intense and bittersweet. And, uh, and Apple gave
00:39:50 ◼ ► me an iPhone, which they didn't always do. After the event, I had a briefing to do, uh, to get a
00:39:54 ◼ ► review unit, which was kind of on, on and off, uh, that would sometimes happen and sometimes not.
00:39:59 ◼ ► And I had to tell my, uh, my very nice PR person who I'd been working with several years. I was
00:40:03 ◼ ► like, okay, I got to tell you something about this. I'm not going to be working at IDG as of
00:40:08 ◼ ► tomorrow. Uh, yeah, so it was super intense, but also I think from an Apple, um, perspective with
00:40:14 ◼ ► the Apple watch and the iPhone six line and, uh, the first kind of big iPhone with the six plus and
00:40:20 ◼ ► the introduction of Apple pay. This is a super important event of the decade. It's also an
00:40:25 ◼ ► interesting event because Apple didn't know what the Apple watch was going to be good for yet. And
00:40:30 ◼ ► so you watch Kevin Lynch in this demo, basically building the case of the Apple watch is going to
00:40:35 ◼ ► do everything your phone does and your hotel room door. That was my favorite. I mean, it's wild and
00:40:42 ◼ ► you know, it's amazing to see how far that product has come. That's what really struck me. And while
00:40:47 ◼ ► every watching this keynote, the other thing that struck me, and I remember thinking this at the
00:40:57 ◼ ► right. iPhone is done super fast and clearly there was a lot more to do. It's also Tim Cook
00:41:05 ◼ ► gets to do the, the one more thing. His voice breaks when he says it, it's clearly emotional
00:41:09 ◼ ► for them. And, and, you know, it, because of the IDG stuff, you know, we had upgrade and episode
00:41:17 ◼ ► one of upgrade was about this iPhone, which is, is really special too. That is absolutely true. Like
00:41:21 ◼ ► a week and a half later, the episode one of upgrade happened. It's a yeah. Yeah. That I
00:41:26 ◼ ► refer to this as the, what doesn't it do keynote because it was literally like, uh, the, it slices,
00:41:31 ◼ ► it dices, it opens cans, it does whatever you want. It's the Apple watch. And then they had
00:41:35 ◼ ► to figure out like what it actually was for over time. Yeah. Uh, it is wild looking back at this
00:41:41 ◼ ► one because that iPhone, you know, it wasn't just the first big iPhone. It was also the iPhone that
00:41:47 ◼ ► made the sales charts go bananas, right? Like it was that iPhone that broke and smashed and
00:41:54 ◼ ► obliterated all records, which then Apple is still paying for all these years later. Right. Like that
00:42:01 ◼ ► incredible rise that occurred. Um, but I had it on my list because, uh, you know, it was obviously not
00:42:08 ◼ ► a great reason for in some respects, but it also did lead to the beginning of upgrade, which is very
00:42:14 ◼ ► important to me. And it seems like everybody that was laid off from IDG has fell on their feet quite
00:42:18 ◼ ► nicely, I think. Right. It seems like. Yeah, I think so. Hope so. All right. So we're moving in
00:42:24 ◼ ► to round two, Steven, what is your second draft pick? This was going to be lower in my list,
00:42:30 ◼ ► but Myke, I think your game here is, uh, events that's that are important to you personally.
00:42:36 ◼ ► So I'm going to steal one. Why are you going to do that? Like this doesn't make this take a bet
00:42:41 ◼ ► that this doesn't make sense. When are you picking it? Because it's also important to you. Are you
00:42:50 ◼ ► So I'm just bumping it up one. Oh, I see what's happening here. Yeah. But you could still leave
00:42:54 ◼ ► it third on your list though. Right. You don't have to. Yeah. But this is how you draft, but
00:42:58 ◼ ► this is how drafts work. Myke is, is you want to get the pics you want to get. So you have to jump
00:43:03 ◼ ► in front of other people. All right. So I, I am betting that the September, 2015 event is on Myke's
00:43:08 ◼ ► list. It is the introduction of the iPad pro. It's also the introduction of the iPhone success. The
00:43:15 ◼ ► Apple TV was Siri remote. We get the line of the future of TV as apps, a very busy keynote, but
00:43:21 ◼ ► this was on my list too, just to be fair. I also had this on my list. So you, you w well done
00:43:27 ◼ ► stealing our picks Steven, but that iPad pro, I mean, re watching that I saw, I have very
00:43:32 ◼ ► complicated feelings about the iPad pro and I feel like in a way Apple has made a promise. It has yet
00:43:38 ◼ ► to deliver on in some ways, but re watching that keynote, it's really clear that it is a, a big
00:43:44 ◼ ► departure for the iPad, even though it kind of looked the same, it was just bigger, but the
00:43:48 ◼ ► pencil and the keyboard, those are things Apple had never done before. There's also the bonus
00:43:53 ◼ ► points for me that Apple use space theme stuff. So they can picture Jupiter and there's movies
00:43:58 ◼ ► of the clips of the Martian kind of very space oriented demo content. And yeah, a big, big event.
00:44:05 ◼ ► And even though, you know, the Apple TV, the future of TV is app, some of that stuff didn't
00:44:10 ◼ ► pan out. I think that helps make it a classic though, is that this is the future of TV is apps
00:44:14 ◼ ► events. It also, in a way feels like one of the first modern Apple keynotes. Like you could maybe
00:44:23 ◼ ► make that argument about the September, 2014 event, but this event is jam packed. It was in a venue
00:44:29 ◼ ► they hadn't really used much if ever before. Cause this was at Billy Graham center, I think.
00:44:41 ◼ ► it is just so jam packed. It's, it's a really fast moving keynote in places. And this kind of how
00:44:54 ◼ ► third on my list, by the way. So, um, I can't wait to pick my second one now because it was what I
00:44:59 ◼ ► thought you were going to take, but the, uh, iPad pro is obviously very important to me, right? It's
00:45:04 ◼ ► like, it was a great event for that because that was the device that really changed a lot of the
00:45:08 ◼ ► way that I compute now. Um, but also it was, uh, where hashtag Myke was right. It was born.
00:45:15 ◼ ► That's where the phrase comes from because I was standing alone in my belief that Apple would
00:45:22 ◼ ► introduce the iPad pro at this event. Uh, people were saying it would have, the event would have
00:45:26 ◼ ► been too much, but I was convinced that Apple would introduce it alongside the iPhone because
00:45:30 ◼ ► people will be looking at it because that iPad pro didn't come out like for until like October
00:45:34 ◼ ► or November. Right. Like it was still a bit of time. I thought Myke was right. It was about the,
00:45:39 ◼ ► the plus size phone being the one to buy. Nope. It started here. And then we retroactively
00:45:45 ◼ ► applied it. I think it's all a blur. Who knows, but it was definitely used in a plumb there
00:45:51 ◼ ► because it was where I was right about something, which was nice for me for once. But my, uh, my
00:45:57 ◼ ► second pick is WWDC 2018 because that's where connected was featured on stage during the Apple
00:46:06 ◼ ► watch portion of the keynote. Um, which shows me that really Steven didn't care about emotions.
00:46:12 ◼ ► He just wanted to take a pic that he thought was my second, but that was obviously very important
00:46:17 ◼ ► to me. Uh, because as well as, I mean, I was 13, no, I was 12 Mojave. My favorite of all the,
00:46:22 ◼ ► not really. Uh, I do, I did have a long love affair with Mojave. I would still be on it if
00:46:28 ◼ ► I could, but had to upgrade. Um, yeah, this watch OS five came as well. None of that stuff is really
00:46:35 ◼ ► that important to me now, but I still have a, a fracture on my wall of Tim Cook's standing in front
00:46:41 ◼ ► of an Apple watch with a connected logo on it, uh, which was quite a moment. It really was. I wasn't
00:46:46 ◼ ► in California for the event. We had a death in the family, so I was home and I flew out on Wednesday
00:46:51 ◼ ► for the live connected. And so I was in my office and I kind of broken away from family stuff long
00:46:57 ◼ ► enough to watch the keynote. And it's one of those things where Twitter and like people in the room
00:47:03 ◼ ► are ahead of the live stream. And all of a sudden, like my mentions were just, I mean, like tweetbot
00:47:09 ◼ ► was freaking out on my iMac and, and then it comes up and I have that same fracture and yeah, it was
00:47:16 ◼ ► incredible. I don't know if we've told the story before, but we were actually considering changing
00:47:21 ◼ ► the connected artwork or updating it and we will never do it now. We'll never be tossed. We actually
00:47:27 ◼ ► started conversations about it a few weeks before, like, cause it was one of the original ones and
00:47:31 ◼ ► the relay FM style has kind of moved on quite a lot. Like it's become, our artwork is more
00:47:36 ◼ ► complicated now. Like it's more, more happening and the connected one is quite flat, right? Like
00:47:41 ◼ ► it's, it's iOS 70, I guess. Uh, and, but now we can, now we can and we'll never ever change it
00:47:47 ◼ ► because otherwise the money I spent on that Getty image would have been in vain. Right. Yeah. And
00:47:54 ◼ ► we didn't know that it was going to be in the keynote itself. Um, it was, it was really
00:47:58 ◼ ► exciting. Yeah. That was an absolute surprise. Like one of the great ones, just very good moment.
00:48:04 ◼ ► So you had gotten some approval for Apple to use it in something, but didn't know that it
00:48:08 ◼ ► would actually be on a slide on the keynote. Right. We've done that a lot over the years.
00:48:12 ◼ ► You have to get approval of lots of things, right. And they'll never tell you what it's for,
00:48:16 ◼ ► but like, it could just be as simple as like, we want to use your artwork on the store or
00:48:21 ◼ ► something. And then also like the, our artwork then showed up in support pages for watchOS 5. So
00:48:27 ◼ ► yeah, that's the way it goes. All right, Jason, what's yours? All right. I'm going to go, uh,
00:48:33 ◼ ► with one that is, uh, it's, it's a content pick. Uh, it's a really good event. It's unique in a
00:48:41 ◼ ► bunch of ways. Um, I also saw a whole bunch of people who I don't usually see at these events,
00:48:46 ◼ ► because it was in Brooklyn. It's the October 30, 2018 Brooklyn event. Um, so not only was it in
00:48:56 ◼ ► Brooklyn, so that was unusual. And I got to like, uh, show Federico around a little bit because
00:49:02 ◼ ► Federico was there, uh, which he isn't often at these events, especially not at an event like
00:49:08 ◼ ► this where he was sort of invited to come, but it doesn't have his whole, like everybody he knows
00:49:12 ◼ ► around him. Um, but, uh, like, uh, Casey and Marco were there. There's a surprising number of people
00:49:18 ◼ ► who I don't normally expect to see at Apple special events outside of WWDC who were there.
00:49:27 ◼ ► it was a really great venue and it was kind of fun to be in Brooklyn. Um, retina MacBook air,
00:49:32 ◼ ► which is, I think a super important product because the MacBook air is arguably the modern
00:49:36 ◼ ► MacBook air is arguably the most important Mac of the decade, most successful and beloved Mac of the
00:49:41 ◼ ► decade. And Apple tried to kill it and replace it with a couple of different laptops and it didn't
00:49:45 ◼ ► work. And the, the users basically rejected it and they had to go back and make a retina MacBook air,
00:49:54 ◼ ► Mac mini is dead is never going to get updated, but there it was. There was a new Mac mini as well.
00:49:59 ◼ ► And then on top of all of that, that modern generation of iPad pro with the great industrial
00:50:06 ◼ ► design, and they're declaring that it was faster than 90% of the laptops sold in the previous year,
00:50:11 ◼ ► with the new Apple pencil and all of that, like great advance for the iPad pro, which I love as
00:50:17 ◼ ► a platform. So great products, interesting people, interesting venue. Like there's nothing that I can
00:50:24 ◼ ► say badly about this, even though it made me travel across the country in order to get to it,
00:50:28 ◼ ► which I don't have to do for events in Cupertino. Um, still just a great event and the, you know,
00:50:34 ◼ ► late October Apple event, you know, in a weird location, it's pretty good, pretty good, pretty
00:50:37 ◼ ► good. Yeah. I wanted to pick this one because there was so many awesome products at this event.
00:50:43 ◼ ► Like it was a good event. It was like a kind of an apology event in a little bit, right? It was just
00:50:49 ◼ ► like, all right, so here's the two Macs that you wanted. And here's an incredible iPad pro to go
00:50:52 ◼ ► along with it. Uh, that was, that was a good one. And in the same vein, like I was watching from
00:50:57 ◼ ► afar, it was nice to see so many people, uh, that I believe deserve to be at these events,
00:51:01 ◼ ► at those events, like Federico was there, Casey was there, Marco was there. It was a nice thing
00:51:06 ◼ ► to see. All right. So that brings us to the end of round two. We have two more rounds to go in this
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00:53:02 ◼ ► It also was the first demo of Mac OS 10 lion. So we see Craig Federicki shaky hand on the mouse.
00:53:09 ◼ ► He's much better now on stage than it used to be. So this event is cool because the map gear is
00:53:14 ◼ ► really important. It was really the laptop that defined the decade as far as notebooks,
00:53:23 ◼ ► but there's an interesting layer to it as well from like Apple strategy perspective where
00:53:29 ◼ ► all of this, this whole event is about bringing stuff from iOS and the iPad back to the max.
00:53:39 ◼ ► We talk about that in software and hardware and look lion is like not a great release of Mac OS.
00:53:45 ◼ ► It did a lot of weird stuff. That's where they changed. I think like the save as dialogue and
00:53:49 ◼ ► it had linen everywhere and like broke full, you know, full screen apps, broke multiple monitors,
00:54:04 ◼ ► Apple has sort of moved away from this philosophy of iOS and Mac OS should look alike and act alike
00:54:11 ◼ ► to we're going to use underlying technology to sort of unify the, at the app level and that the
00:54:17 ◼ ► OS is kind of be true to themselves. And so it's a real shift from this strategy that we see 10
00:54:23 ◼ ► years ago to where we are now. And that really hit me for the first time in rewatching. This was,
00:54:29 ◼ ► yeah, I've always thought about this as, Oh, that's when the good Mac gear came out, but it's,
00:54:32 ◼ ► there's also this glimpse into where Apple was going and the next several releases of Mac OS
00:54:37 ◼ ► after this reflect this. And then at some point maybe around, you know, Yosemite or so they shifted
00:54:44 ◼ ► to kind of where we are now. Yep. I mean, I, I had this high on my list too. It was a coin flip
00:54:53 ◼ ► about this or a different event for my pick in this round. So well done. I mentioned it talking
00:54:59 ◼ ► about the Mac book air in the last pick that, that this is the one that started that ball rolling.
00:55:04 ◼ ► And then late in the decade, they're like, all right, no, no, no, you want the Mac book air back.
00:55:08 ◼ ► Okay, here it is. You can have it. Yeah. Because this is a super important computer. And this,
00:55:12 ◼ ► I remember, you know, this event and how excited everybody was about the new Mac book air because
00:55:17 ◼ ► that first Mac book air was, was weird. And this Mac book air was like, I think we even
00:55:37 ◼ ► but a lot of people for good reason. Yeah. It's great. There's, there's a funny line in this of
00:55:42 ◼ ► jobs is like, you know, what happens if an iPad and a Mac hooked up? Yeah. Like a really
00:55:47 ◼ ► funny way of talking about it, but it, yeah, it defined so much. I mean, this was the Mac book
00:55:53 ◼ ► that brought SSD technology to the masses. Right. And the wedge, I mean, all of it's so iconic. Like
00:56:00 ◼ ► you can't, I think it's really hard to overstate the importance of this laptop and this little like
00:56:05 ◼ ► press event. I think it was on their campus. It's just kind of where it all started. And lion as an
00:56:10 ◼ ► operating system release really is the story of the decade to come for the Mac, which is how does
00:56:16 ◼ ► the Mac fit in at a company that is so dominated by the iPhone and only going to become more
00:56:21 ◼ ► dominated over time. The whole back to the Mac. The idea there is like, we've been talking about
00:56:26 ◼ ► the iPhone a lot, so now we're going to talk about the Mac a little bit, but it also brought in Mac,
00:56:30 ◼ ► you know, iOS features sort of to the Mac. And that became a whole balancing act over the decade.
00:56:36 ◼ ► So that's why this is a good pick. So good job, Steven. Thank you. All right. I am going to go
00:56:41 ◼ ► back to 2010 and I'm going to pick WWDC 2010. Ooh. Now it's worth noting. This is a kind of a fun
00:56:51 ◼ ► thing. Uh, WWDC back in 2010, that's not where they announced iOS updates. So iPhone OS 4 was
00:56:59 ◼ ► actually announced in April at a special event, uh, where it was ready to be roadmap thing. Uh huh.
00:57:14 ◼ ► right? That was because the iPad was just shipped. It's just shipped. So they were pushing that like
00:57:20 ◼ ► iPad apps as well. But also at WWDC 2010, they unveiled the iPhone 4. Cause again, there was the
00:57:28 ◼ ► schedule that we have now was wasn't in place then, right? Like where you could predict exactly what
00:57:33 ◼ ► Apple was going to do on a calendar, right? Like iPhones come in September, iOS comes in June. Like
00:57:39 ◼ ► we knew that was, we know that's the case now, but it wasn't really the case then things was kind of
00:57:43 ◼ ► a little bit more in flux, I guess. Um, also FaceTime was unveiled, but the reason that I
00:57:49 ◼ ► wanted to pick this event, two reasons. One, this was the last iPhone that Jobs ever got to show
00:57:59 ◼ ► this was the iPhone that was left in a bar. Yes. This was the first heavily leaked iPhone,
00:58:07 ◼ ► which started, I guess, the industry that now exists around trying to leak iPhones. Uh, this
00:58:13 ◼ ► was the one left in a bar picked up by Gizmodo. There was the secret California technology
00:58:18 ◼ ► police, all that wonderful stuff. And one of what is one of my favorite just tech stories of the
00:58:23 ◼ ► last decade, Steve jobs, uh, sort of threatening phone calls to Brian lamb at Gizmodo. Yep.
00:58:29 ◼ ► So good. Like such a good story. Uh, it was the iPhone that we all thought was really ugly when
00:58:35 ◼ ► we saw the photos, but then when we saw it, it has gone down as being one of the best looking
00:58:39 ◼ ► phones ever. It brought retina. This was the first retina device. Um, just like awesome. So awesome.
00:58:45 ◼ ► Great story. Great WWDC super strange. When you think back to it now that like, this wasn't where
00:58:51 ◼ ► they showed off iOS, they released a phone instead. It's like such a weird thing to think about for
00:58:55 ◼ ► WWDC, but that was what that's. Those were the times kids. Yep. For sure. This is a great event.
00:59:01 ◼ ► And you're right about the, the whole, uh, uh, the cycle being so weird. 2011 Apple started releasing
00:59:09 ◼ ► iPhones in the fall. So the next year, but, uh, in 2010, yeah, there was this whole, whole weird
00:59:16 ◼ ► other schedule and the iPad came in and I didn't have this on my list only because I had so many
00:59:20 ◼ ► 2010 events on my list. And I thought that's pretty rough to have just pick from the one year
00:59:25 ◼ ► out of the whole decade, but a lot of stuff, 2010 was a big year for Apple. Big, big year.
00:59:39 ◼ ► he's going to get my next one. Yeah. I had to pick it now because I was afraid it was going to,
00:59:47 ◼ ► they're not going to pick it yet. I'm going to take the risk and I'm going to wait until round
00:59:54 ◼ ► there was a whole rash of stories about how if you put your fingers in the right places,
01:00:02 ◼ ► You could drop a call or a data session just by putting your fingers in a couple of places on the,
01:00:07 ◼ ► on the edge, that metal edge of the case where they had put the antenna. And there was a whole
01:00:11 ◼ ► thing. This is the, this is the quintessential Apple product flaw story, which honestly we see
01:00:18 ◼ ► every year now, but they're all just trying to be antenna gate and none of them are as good
01:00:24 ◼ ► as antenna gate. Um, it was so bad in fact that so, so, uh, June 7th, 2010 is when they announced
01:00:34 ◼ ► the iPhone four and, and presumably shipped it a few days later, July 16th, a month later,
01:00:40 ◼ ► they had to call a special event. Steve jobs had after the intensity of doing an iPhone launch and
01:00:47 ◼ ► a WWDC, he took his family to Hawaii. They're on vacation. The story keeps building and building
01:01:02 ◼ ► town hall tomorrow. And we'll talk to you about this. Um, it was not a full room because it was
01:01:08 ◼ ► on such short notice. It's not a product launch. It was kind of a presentation followed by a Q and
01:01:13 ◼ ► a session. There are, um, it was Steve jobs at his best slash worst because he doesn't want to
01:01:24 ◼ ► be there. He's really mad that people have brought this up, but also he knows he needs to spin this a
01:01:29 ◼ ► little bit because it is kind of an issue. So he does things like give everybody free bumpers for
01:01:34 ◼ ► their iPhones and it's very case fine. Have a case, see if I care. And so that it is a remarkable
01:01:42 ◼ ► event, uh, in that it is Apple kind of off its game, trying to do damage control and it's Tim,
01:01:50 ◼ ► uh, Phil Schiller and Steve jobs, I think sitting on awkwardly on kind of, uh, stools on the stage.
01:01:57 ◼ ► I've got some photos of this event that are amazing where it's like, we do not want to be here.
01:02:02 ◼ ► And then after the event, they took a small group of us and did the like, no, no, no, we really do
01:02:08 ◼ ► test our iPhones before we release them where they're like, look at this radio lab and look at
01:02:11 ◼ ► this anechoic chamber and all of this other kind of like stuff where they literally nobody gets to
01:02:17 ◼ ► go there because it's where they're researching future iPhones. We went past tables that were
01:02:22 ◼ ► covered with drop cloths because it was obviously next year's iPhones being worked on there.
01:02:34 ◼ ► we totally did. Anyway, it was an incredibly unusual event. It's got some great Steve jobs
01:02:39 ◼ ► moments. It was painful. It was awkward. It was weird. It's an event like no other. Um,
01:02:49 ◼ ► like, you know, I just mentioned that, Oh, the iPhone four started the like industry of leaks.
01:02:55 ◼ ► This started the industry of reporting that there are problems of iPhones, right? Like every year,
01:03:00 ◼ ► everyone's trying to find the new gate, right? Like in, in kind of, especially like in mainstream
01:03:06 ◼ ► media, because if you can find that thing and you can report on it, it gets a bunch of news.
01:03:11 ◼ ► You know, sometimes phones don't have headphone jacks. Sometimes phones make hissing sounds,
01:03:17 ◼ ► whatever the reason, uh, you want to get a report on that because it blows up, right? Like people
01:03:21 ◼ ► love that news. And this was the first time that had happened and the Apple had to call a big event
01:03:28 ◼ ► about it. They never do that again. And I think for good reason, right? Like there were different
01:03:33 ◼ ► ways to deal with these types of problems, especially when this actually wasn't a thing
01:03:36 ◼ ► that really affected anyone really like, yeah, you could maybe make it happen, but it wasn't a
01:03:43 ◼ ► problem. Also you're holding it wrong, right? This is the you're holding it wrong moment too.
01:03:53 ◼ ► he's like, you want a case? Fine. Like it's cringe. It's cringe TV. It's like super cringy,
01:04:00 ◼ ► the whole thing. If you watch it, it's just uncomfortable. It is. And it's just funny that
01:04:06 ◼ ► in hindsight, like, I don't know how big of a problem it actually was. Apple argues in this
01:04:10 ◼ ► event that it wasn't a big deal. And, but then with the forest, they changed the design and
01:04:16 ◼ ► so there's that. And there was a report a few years later that it had been predicted with an
01:04:22 ◼ ► Apple and that engineer was no longer with the company who knows, but definitely an outlier and
01:04:32 ◼ ► I know why that entire round was 2010. Yeah, that's fun. That's true. That makes four out of the
01:04:39 ◼ ► nine, uh, events that we've picked were from 2010. Big year. I have something to say about that at
01:04:55 ◼ ► WWDC 2017. So I don't even remember what versions of iOS or Mac OS were here. That's not even in my
01:05:03 ◼ ► notes, but, um, what jumped out at me in skimming it is that Apple spent a lot of time on hardware
01:05:12 ◼ ► in this event. You know, this was after, I think it was after the round table about the Mac pro
01:05:20 ◼ ► coming back and the iMac pro had been teased, but Apple then spends quite a bit of time
01:05:33 ◼ ► We also see the, uh, the home pod in this event, which is like a wild add on at the end.
01:05:43 ◼ ► There's a lot of interesting hardware stuff. And I think the beginning of the turnaround
01:05:48 ◼ ► in terms of Apple doesn't care about max anymore. This is also where we get the new little iPad pro.
01:05:54 ◼ ► Yeah. The, uh, the 10.5. Yeah. Oh, this is where they also revised the big one too. I think this
01:06:00 ◼ ► was the first was, was this one of the first, if not the first revision of the big one.
01:06:10 ◼ ► Yeah. So they had already done the first, they had the iPad pro staggered out where in the fall,
01:06:15 ◼ ► they did the big one and then they did the smaller one in the spring. And this is the year where they
01:06:18 ◼ ► like got them all. And they had different features. Remember where like they weren't all, you couldn't
01:06:23 ◼ ► buy a best iPad. And here was the, that was the time where they were like, no, no, no, now we've
01:06:26 ◼ ► got the iPad pro here. It is. Which was good. Cause that was confusing. And the home pod. Yeah. What
01:06:31 ◼ ► a weird launch that home pod too, where it's like, Oh, eventually it'll be out eventually.
01:06:36 ◼ ► Cause they, they felt this was, this was the rare case where it felt like Apple really had to
01:06:41 ◼ ► pre-announce a product because they felt pressure. Cause everybody was saying, where is Apple?
01:06:44 ◼ ► Why don't they have the product in this category? And so they, they kind of pushed it out before.
01:06:51 ◼ ► we spent the summer saying, why didn't they just announce this in the fall with the iPhone? And
01:06:54 ◼ ► the answer was because there was so much pressure on them to announce it. Right. And like talk about
01:06:59 ◼ ► the wrong environment for them to announce this product, right? There's no developer story for
01:07:03 ◼ ► the home pod and like there barely is still one to this day. This is, this is the one too, where
01:07:13 ◼ ► home pod, but you can't say where, um, where they brought me into a room and that you couldn't touch
01:07:18 ◼ ► it, but you could, you could listen to it. Uh, very strange, obviously not a unusual for Apple
01:07:25 ◼ ► because it's, it's rare that they will show the press a completely not ready product, but that
01:07:30 ◼ ► was very clearly a not ready product that they wanted us to hear, but don't touch, try not to
01:07:35 ◼ ► look directly at it. It was very weird. Cause I guess the only thing the home pod really had and
01:07:40 ◼ ► still has is it sounds real good. So you kind of had to meet cause there was no, uh, development
01:07:46 ◼ ► thing. They had to at least try and get people to talk about what it was good at and that was making
01:07:52 ◼ ► noise. So still good at making noise, still bad at everything else. My final pick is I don't like to
01:08:02 ◼ ► go so recent, but there is good reason for this WWDC 2019 because this was my favorite thing about
01:08:11 ◼ ► WWDC is when they give you everything you've been asking for. Right. That, that is like my favorite
01:08:16 ◼ ► thing that WWDC can do is like the community has a list of things and this is the time that we're
01:08:23 ◼ ► going to get them. Uh, 2017 was like this, right? Because we got the hardware that we were talking
01:08:30 ◼ ► about. 2019 I think takes it to another level because not only did we get everything we wanted,
01:08:36 ◼ ► which was Mac pro pro display XDR, right? Like there was a bunch of things that people wanted
01:08:42 ◼ ► in there. A lot of features to iOS 13 that we were looking for. Some of them maybe didn't pan
01:08:47 ◼ ► out the way that we wanted, right? Like the same as like catalyst, like that came, that became
01:08:51 ◼ ► available, but didn't pan out necessarily the way that people were thinking it would initially.
01:08:55 ◼ ► One of the things that we got that nobody was asking for was iPadOS. Like you mentioned,
01:09:00 ◼ ► this recent on an episode, like it's amazing that we have it, but like no one was expecting it. Like
01:09:05 ◼ ► no one was really asking for it, but we got it. So it was one of those WWDCs where like every 10
01:09:11 ◼ ► minutes I was making screaming sounds, right? Where it's just like, Oh my God, they've done
01:09:15 ◼ ► this thing. Right. Like, and so I remember that one was, this was especially fun to watch for
01:09:20 ◼ ► that reason. And then it had all the weirdness to it. Like here's a display. It costs a thousand
01:09:26 ◼ ► dollars to hang it on something, right? It's just like, you know, we talk about, we've been speaking
01:09:31 ◼ ► about throughout this draft memes that will remain a meme for a very long time with our Apple
01:09:36 ◼ ► keynotes, right? That like, Oh, how much does this stand cost? Right? Like that we're going to be
01:09:40 ◼ ► still be doing that joke in like five years time. Uh, so I think that this, this WWDC will go down
01:09:46 ◼ ► in history as well. As far as like the emotional angle, I got my first ever press invite, uh, to
01:09:53 ◼ ► this keynote and through Mac power users, we got to talk to Doug Brooks, the product manager
01:09:58 ◼ ► of the Mac pro. And recently we interviewed somebody who had access to it in advance and
01:10:02 ◼ ► there's one under my desk, like, and Federico got to speak to Craig Federighi and then he did
01:10:07 ◼ ► able to have some people on the show to talk about Swift UI. Like it was like a big year for that
01:10:11 ◼ ► kind of stuff, which was fun. It was. And hopefully, uh, that, that continues in the future with
01:10:15 ◼ ► podcasts or access, but yeah, the first stuff, like the emotional angle, this would be definitely
01:10:21 ◼ ► high on my list because I got to be in the room, which was just an incredible experience to be
01:10:25 ◼ ► there for the first time. And there's, I don't know, like 6,000 people in the room, but it was,
01:10:41 ◼ ► I kept my notes from that keynote that I was taking during the show. And there's huge gaps
01:10:47 ◼ ► in them because you just can't keep up. And, uh, and so that was a fun, it was fun to be in that
01:10:53 ◼ ► role. Hopefully I get to do it again, but that, uh, WCC 2019 will always be special to me because
01:10:59 ◼ ► I got to be there. Wile E. Hodges and Josh Shaffer. That's who we had on the show. That's right.
01:11:04 ◼ ► I couldn't remember off the top of my head. I apologize. And we did a download rest in peace
01:11:09 ◼ ► with Apple as well. We did all the great shows, all the great shows. All right. I'm going to close
01:11:15 ◼ ► out the draft. Um, and I have two kind of momentous Apple history moments to choose from. I'm going to
01:11:22 ◼ ► choose the September iPhone event from 2017. It's the launch of the iPhone 10, a super important
01:11:32 ◼ ► product to Apple. Um, the, you know, bringing in face ID and OLED screens and the notch and the
01:11:40 ◼ ► edge to edge display. It's a super important product. It is still the iPhone generation
01:11:45 ◼ ► of design that we're in. There was a new Apple watch then too. There was the 4k version of the
01:11:51 ◼ ► Apple TV at last, but the number one reason that I'm picking it is this was the opening of the Steve
01:11:58 ◼ ► Jobs theater on the Apple park campus. And while it didn't smell good outside, cause it was all
01:12:03 ◼ ► covered in fertilizer because they were growing their plants. It was an amazing event because they
01:12:08 ◼ ► opened the theater. Tim Cook did his dedication to Steve Jobs at the beginning of it. Um, and then
01:12:13 ◼ ► they unveiled the iPhone 10, which was a huge product thing. So both for kind of Apple history
01:12:18 ◼ ► reasons and for product reasons, uh, I pick the September 2017 iPhone event. That is a good one.
01:12:25 ◼ ► It also includes the forgotten iPhone, the iPhone eight. I phoned eight. Sure. That also exists.
01:12:32 ◼ ► So I phoned in our lineup. My wife is using one. That's a good pick. I had that one too.
01:12:37 ◼ ► Definitely on my list too. And yeah, the iPhone 10 is such a momentous change in the lineup.
01:12:43 ◼ ► The biggest, I think since we've seen in the six and six plus, so it's, uh, it's definitely
01:12:47 ◼ ► important. And I actually forgotten that this was the first one in the theater. I knew it was about
01:12:51 ◼ ► this time, but I'd forgotten it was the, uh, the iPhone 10 event. All right. So that is the end of
01:12:56 ◼ ► the draft. We've picked all of our picks, but of course it wouldn't be a draft of our honorable
01:13:00 ◼ ► mentions. So Steven, is there anything that you want to just cast a quick note to that didn't get
01:13:06 ◼ ► picked in our 12 overall items? Yeah, I've got, I've got a couple. Um, I think the iPad two intro
01:13:13 ◼ ► in March, 2011 is another really strong keynote. They, I mean, the, the original iPad was such a
01:13:21 ◼ ► hit immediately and the iPad two just continued to bury their competitors in the ground. And plus
01:13:27 ◼ ► it had the really cool video with the smart covers. If you remember those, and, uh, it was
01:13:32 ◼ ► also a shift. The original iPad keynote involved a demonstration of I work, and this one involved
01:13:39 ◼ ► a demonstration of I life, photos and movies and stuff. It was kind of a shift in Apple's
01:13:44 ◼ ► content strategy for the iPad to think was really interesting. And, uh, I'll stay in 2011 with my
01:13:50 ◼ ► other one, the WWDC of that year, it was, I was five. So it was PC free. Remember you could sync
01:13:58 ◼ ► over wireless if you wanted to, but it was the introduction of iCloud, which is actually, uh,
01:14:04 ◼ ► Steve's last keynote. We have the, the line that you've said on this show, the truth is in the
01:14:09 ◼ ► cloud. It's a huge quote from this. And, uh, there's also a joke about mobile me, which is fun
01:14:14 ◼ ► that jobs knew that it wasn't their finest hour. So I think kind of, uh, in hindsight, a really
01:14:20 ◼ ► important. WBC because like, we're still living in this world where iCloud is the glue that holds all
01:14:24 ◼ ► these things together. The only, uh, event that I had left that wasn't picked, uh, is the March
01:14:40 ◼ ► I think it is historic because it marks the changing of the company. Um, this, this event
01:14:47 ◼ ► had no product, but Apple thought that it was worth bringing in the world's media. Um, we got
01:14:54 ◼ ► Apple news, plus Apple card, Apple arcade and Apple TV plus TV plus took up the majority of
01:15:00 ◼ ► the event when Apple one by one brought out all of this, a selection of stars that they were working
01:15:07 ◼ ► with, including Oprah, uh, to which the roof flew off the Steve jobs theater at that moment. Um,
01:15:14 ◼ ► and it was a big event because, I mean, it was big for, for us, cause we've been talking about
01:15:19 ◼ ► this stuff for so long at this point. Um, and so, you know, I feel like, you know, we have upstream,
01:15:24 ◼ ► we cover this stuff and this was a big moment for that. I felt like it's something that I knew a lot
01:15:30 ◼ ► about and was like really intrigued to see if everything was going to go the way that I thought
01:15:33 ◼ ► it would. But I think that again, we will look back at this event, uh, in another 10 years time
01:15:39 ◼ ► and quite like we spoke about 2010, 2019 marked a lot of change for Apple. And this is one of the
01:15:47 ◼ ► big changes of like, okay, we're a media company now. So let's see what ends up shaking out from
01:15:53 ◼ ► that one. Um, my only leftover pick was something that I referred to as the empty chair event. It's
01:15:59 ◼ ► October 4th, 2011. This was the introduction of the iPhone 4s and Siri. Uh, five of my friends
01:16:04 ◼ ► was also at this event, but I think in hindsight, most notable because, um, they left us a chair at
01:16:11 ◼ ► the front of the stage, um, like in the first row, um, open for Steve Jobs who died the next day,
01:16:20 ◼ ► I think. Um, and so it's, I always think about that, that they did an Apple product launch event
01:16:26 ◼ ► the day before Steve Jobs died and they, you know, and they left in his, in his honor, the story goes
01:16:32 ◼ ► that they left his, uh, his audience chair, uh, available, but they knew what was, what was
01:16:38 ◼ ► probably going to happen. And, uh, and so, yeah, that, that, that was the other one I had on my list.
01:16:48 ◼ ► - I think it's interesting that it's pretty weighted towards earlier in the decade. And
01:16:56 ◼ ► I think there are a couple of reasons for that. I mean, one, like we're all Steve Jobs fans and so
01:17:12 ◼ ► and look at these events, I think three things jumped out to me. One, Tim Cook is much better
01:17:18 ◼ ► on stage than he used to be way better. Um, two, Apple is working on diversity. It's, it's
01:17:25 ◼ ► improving as the years go by and in terms of who is on stage and what they talk about. And I think
01:17:30 ◼ ► that's obviously a very important thing for Apple to continue to push on. Uh, but three,
01:17:39 ◼ ► the, if you go back in the past, there's, there's always been applause at WWDC because there's
01:17:46 ◼ ► developers there, but like press events, it basically was a quiet room for the most part.
01:17:51 ◼ ► And that is totally different. Now Apple brings in retail employees and other people to, uh, to
01:17:57 ◼ ► these events. And, you know, like the Brooklyn events, a good example where they're like people
01:18:01 ◼ ► from the New York area, Apple stores there, and they were very clearly enthusiastic about being
01:18:04 ◼ ► there and they should be, that's really exciting, but that's a real difference between like the back
01:18:09 ◼ ► to the Mac event and the 2018 MacBook air event. Like just listen to them. It's a very different
01:18:20 ◼ ► The change in Tim Cook is a big thing, right. And getting better at it. But then, you know,
01:18:26 ◼ ► you mentioned the diversity. It makes it interesting because we hear them from different
01:18:30 ◼ ► people and that just means the events feel different. Like they have a different energy to
01:18:34 ◼ ► them. Um, which is good, right? Cause you've got as well as people that have been doing this stuff
01:18:40 ◼ ► for a long time and know how to work a crowd, you have people that you can feel their excitement
01:18:45 ◼ ► because they get to be on stage for the first time talking about the thing that they work on.
01:18:49 ◼ ► Um, it, it makes the events feel very different. It also makes them feel faster, I think,
01:18:54 ◼ ► because we're, they're cycling through people. Um, so it gives them a different energy,
01:18:58 ◼ ► which I enjoy. Steven, thank you so much for joining us for this draft. Your historical
01:19:03 ◼ ► knowledge has been noted, um, and appreciated. Uh, if you want to find Steven's history,
01:19:09 ◼ ► well, the history that Steven reports on, go to fivetortpixels.net and of course you can go to
01:19:14 ◼ ► Fivetortpixels YouTube channel as well. Uh, Steven is the host of many fine programs here at Relay
01:19:19 ◼ ► FM, including connected, liftoff, Mac power users, and ungenius. Uh, Steven is at ISMH online as
01:19:27 ◼ ► well. Did I cover everything Steven? It feels good. Thanks for having me guys. Always a pleasure.
01:19:32 ◼ ► Never a chore. Thank you Steven Hackett. Until next time. Adios. All right, Jason, we should do
01:19:39 ◼ ► some hashtag #askupgrade to send this episode off into space. Uh, but before we do, uh, I would like
01:19:45 ◼ ► to thank our final sponsor of this episode, which is Booz Allen. Modernizing for the future is a
01:19:50 ◼ ► challenge, especially for larger organizations. You may need to integrate legacy systems of new
01:19:54 ◼ ► technology. You may need to incorporate AI and analytics to work more efficiently and make fast
01:19:59 ◼ ► decisions. And everyone needs new ways of thinking to move to what's next, whether for government
01:20:04 ◼ ► or commercial goals. Booz Allen understands, and they're helping some of the world's largest
01:20:08 ◼ ► organizations modernize. They understand the missions of government and industry and the need
01:20:13 ◼ ► to adapt to constant change. They provide open source solutions so clients can integrate
01:20:18 ◼ ► innovation from anywhere, whether from visionary startups or major contractors. Plus they're
01:20:23 ◼ ► helping clients power new technologies of analytics and because security is everybody's priority,
01:20:29 ◼ ► they integrate their capabilities of intelligence grade cyber security. With Booz Allen integration
01:20:39 ◼ ► Allen. Learn more at BoozAllen.com/relay. That's BoozAllen.com/relay. Our thanks to Booz Allen for
01:20:45 ◼ ► the support of this show. Let's do some #AskUpgrade questions. Three, two, one. Oh no, the episode's
01:20:55 ◼ ► already been, okay, I guess we haven't left. You said we had to send this episode into space.
01:21:00 ◼ ► So I guess, lift off? Right, we're now, we're just, we're kind of, we're heading up, we're
01:21:06 ◼ ► nearing max Q right now. I don't know what that means, but it's the beginning of our ascent into
01:21:11 ◼ ► orbit. And Kirk asks, Jason, what Blu-ray drive are you using with your Mac? Oh, so I have a new
01:21:19 ◼ ► one. It's a long story. I wrote a post about it, or updated an old post about it. I am using the
01:21:26 ◼ ► new drive I got is it's an Asus drive. It's the Asus, it's a great name. You're going to love it.
01:21:30 ◼ ► BW-16D1HT. Oh good, I'm pleased they upgraded from the HH to the HT. That was a good one. In an OWC
01:21:39 ◼ ► Mercury Pro enclosure, basically I was talking to people who rip Blu-rays and put them on Plex
01:21:46 ◼ ► about how there's now this Libre Drive standard, which is basically a, you flash the firmware on
01:21:56 ◼ ► the disc and it gets in this completely region-free DRM-free mode where I can take not only regular
01:22:03 ◼ ► Blu-rays, but I can actually take 4K Blu-rays and pull them off using the very useful MakeMKV app,
01:22:10 ◼ ► at which point I put them on my Plex server. So I'm a firm believer that, this is my disclaimer,
01:22:16 ◼ ► firm believer that if I buy a disc and I want to play it on other devices in my home, I can do that.
01:22:24 ◼ ► And I don't use it for piracy. I use it for my own home playback on my server and for backing up the
01:22:29 ◼ ► movie so that I can get it off the disc and into other formats. So I did buy a new one of those
01:22:35 ◼ ► because it's nice and fast and more flexible and my old drive was getting a little long on the
01:22:41 ◼ ► tooth. And I actually bought it flash, pre-flashed with Libre Drive. There's a link in my story to
01:22:47 ◼ ► people who offer it, including the guy that I used, who basically, he buys the drive and flashes the
01:22:54 ◼ ► firmware so that I don't have to boot into Windows and flash the firmware myself and then sends it
01:23:00 ◼ ► and basically charges you for labor and passes on the cost of the drives. So that's what I did.
01:23:20 ◼ ► - So this isn't in the post you have a picture and that's not the drive you have now, right?
01:23:34 ◼ ► - Chris wants to know, do either of you use clips? I've used it occasionally, but as of iMovie,
01:23:46 ◼ ► - I wish it supported portrait video. I feel like if it did, I could make some fun Instagram
01:23:52 ◼ ► stories of it. Cause it does like that subtitling thing and you can do green screen type stuff and
01:23:57 ◼ ► it has all those stickers, right? Like I feel like clips has a lot of really interesting features,
01:24:01 ◼ ► but locking it to square video, it's just very strange. Like this is not, I know why you did
01:24:07 ◼ ► it Apple because Instagram, but you should be focusing on Instagram stories, not Instagram
01:24:13 ◼ ► feed posts, right? Like it is a social media app. Do you remember people originally thought
01:24:17 ◼ ► that clips was going to be a social network that Apple was making, but it ended up just being this
01:24:22 ◼ ► social video app, but it should be shooting 16 by nine, not square. So, or nine by 16 or whatever
01:24:30 ◼ ► one it is. Nine by 16 is what I'm saying, because that was the portrait, like Instagram stories.
01:24:41 ◼ ► Ninjo asks, I'm going to be going overseas for a week in March. How does one go about getting
01:24:47 ◼ ► a travel data plan? I often remember Jason, when you would talk about the vending machines inside
01:24:52 ◼ ► of airports. That's one of the ways that you used to get a SIM card and you can just get a SIM card
01:24:58 ◼ ► from a local store when you land. That's what I used to do back in the day when I'd arrive
01:25:03 ◼ ► in the US, if I hadn't already lost, if I had remembered to bring my SIM card from my previous
01:25:08 ◼ ► trip, I would use that. Otherwise I'd go to like a T-Mobile store because T-Mobile have like a
01:25:12 ◼ ► travel SIM basically, it's like a plan, which is for 90 days or whatever. And it's just,
01:25:23 ◼ ► I'm with a carrier called EE here in the UK. I'm on a plan that counts my data, minutes and calls
01:25:29 ◼ ► overseas as if I was at home. So there's no charges, right? It's just included in my plan.
01:25:35 ◼ ► Check if your carrier does that. If they do, it's great because then you're not paying a bunch of
01:25:39 ◼ ► fees, a bunch of carriers. I know that American carriers do a thing where you can just pay a fee,
01:25:45 ◼ ► a flat fee every day and use your phone that way. And sometimes that's actually a pretty good deal,
01:25:50 ◼ ► especially if you're having to deal with switching SIMs and switching numbers and all of that,
01:25:54 ◼ ► that I went to Canada for a few days and it was way easier for me to just have my AT&T plan
01:26:00 ◼ ► charge me for the three days I was in Canada than it was to deal with something else. They
01:26:19 ◼ ► Instagram, like it will just gobble that right up and it's all gone. So like if you get, if you just
01:26:24 ◼ ► get into your regular flow of things, not really paying attention to your data, you will go through
01:26:30 ◼ ► daily caps very quickly. Tim>> At this point, I don't recommend it. Like if you've got an option
01:26:34 ◼ ► where it's like, we will charge you per gigabyte over this or whatever, find another option because
01:26:39 ◼ ► you don't want to live like that. You're going to be traveling, whether it's for work or for a
01:26:43 ◼ ► holiday. The last thing you want to do is every time you look at your phone, you're flipping
01:26:48 ◼ ► switches on and off of cellular data or you're thinking about how much they're going to charge
01:26:52 ◼ ► you. You either want an all-in plan for your carrier or you want to get an eSIM or a regular
01:26:58 ◼ ► SIM card from some carrier, assuming you've got an unlocked phone especially, which most of them
01:27:05 ◼ ► can be or are now. So yeah, that's the eSIM thing is really nice, right? Because if you have the
01:27:12 ◼ ► ability to have a second SIM active on in your phone as well as your existing SIM, then you can
01:27:19 ◼ ► do a little bit of both and that makes this, this is getting better, I guess is what I'm saying.
01:27:24 ◼ ► - Yeah, I've included a link in the show notes to a knowledge base article from Apple talking about
01:27:29 ◼ ► how to use eSIMs and this is like especially useful in iPhones. Was it the 11? No, 10s from
01:27:39 ◼ ► 10s and 10r and later, you can use a second SIM, electronic SIM in your iPhone. So if your iPhone
01:27:47 ◼ ► is unlocked, which is important, that's also important if you want to buy a SIM when you land,
01:27:51 ◼ ► make sure your iPhone is unlocked before you do that because otherwise you're stuck. So that
01:27:58 ◼ ► might not always be an option for you but eSIMs are another way to do it. But I agree with Jason,
01:28:02 ◼ ► do everything you can to avoid paying for gigabytes. You don't want to do that now because
01:28:08 ◼ ► you will end up in a situation afterwards. I can almost guarantee it. It'll be more expensive than
01:28:12 ◼ ► any other way that you would want to do this. Ben writes in and says, "After last week's episode,
01:28:18 ◼ ► I got to wondering what are your etiquette rules around taking smart devices with you if you were
01:28:23 ◼ ► to move to a new house? Can you take the smart bulbs in the ceiling mounts, the smart roller
01:28:28 ◼ ► shades that you installed? What about the ring doorbell? What stays? What goes?" - All right,
01:28:33 ◼ ► so there are a lot of issues here. One of them is are you renting or are you selling your house
01:28:37 ◼ ► and what was in the house when you moved in? But I think the simplest answer is if you are a renter,
01:28:47 ◼ ► return the house...consider what it would take to return to the house to the original condition it
01:28:51 ◼ ► was in. So you put smart bulbs in the fixtures. If you want to take your smart bulbs with you,
01:28:56 ◼ ► that's fine. If the house didn't come with smart bulbs, just buy some bulbs and screw those in
01:29:01 ◼ ► and take your smart bulbs with you. If it's something like a roller shades, right, like if
01:29:07 ◼ ► they weren't smart roller shades when you got there and you installed them, I think they belong
01:29:12 ◼ ► to you and you should be able to take them. But you can't leave the house without shades. If the
01:29:16 ◼ ► house had shades when you moved in, you need to put shades in before you leave, either the ones
01:29:21 ◼ ► that you kept, right, or if you threw them away, the ones that you are going to have to buy to
01:29:27 ◼ ► replace them. And then you do the balance. You do the question of like, "Would it be easier for me
01:29:31 ◼ ► just to leave them here where they are already installed and go buy new ones in my new place?"
01:29:36 ◼ ► But I think returning it to the place that you left it, like if you have a Nest thermostat on
01:29:42 ◼ ► your wall and it originally came with a cheap plastic thermostat and you still have that
01:29:45 ◼ ► somewhere, just put the cheap plastic thermostat back. If you are selling your house, I don't know,
01:29:50 ◼ ► talk to your realtor because there may be some like implication of like whether they are buying
01:29:55 ◼ ► the equipment or not, but I think even then I have a hard time believing that any house sale is
01:30:00 ◼ ► contingent on things like whether you have got smart bulbs in the outlets. So my real guidance
01:30:06 ◼ ► here is leave it the way you found it unless you decide that that's actually more complicated than
01:30:12 ◼ ► it's worth. Yeah, this is definitely the case for renting in my opinion, right? Because it's like,
01:30:18 ◼ ► it's more trickier. House sales are a bit weirder because like, you know, you're buying the shell,
01:30:23 ◼ ► not the stuff that's in the middle. Right, unless that's negotiated because sometimes that happens
01:30:28 ◼ ► where it's like you've got this huge table that fits in this room and they're like, "We love that
01:30:31 ◼ ► table. We want to buy it," along with the house. And you're like, "Okay, throw in another $1,000
01:30:35 ◼ ► and you can have the table." Yeah. But yeah, like don't leave people without a thermostat,
01:30:45 ◼ ► keep the old stuff. Keep the old stuff. So it can be put back in. Consider that when you move out.
01:30:56 ◼ ► Josh writes in and asks, "Do you think it's possible and/or probable that streaming services
01:31:00 ◼ ► will ever pick up canceled shows from other streaming services? I just really want Sad Spies
01:31:05 ◼ ► Back." We all do, Josh. We all do. We all do. This has already happened. It will continue
01:31:10 ◼ ► happening. I think the most likely scenario is that the studio that made the show has its own
01:31:15 ◼ ► streaming service because what you want to see is alignment between who made it and who profits from
01:31:24 ◼ ► it and what the outlet is where it's being released. And if you see alignment, then there's
01:31:31 ◼ ► a more likely chance. NBC did this to itself where NBC, the broadcast network, canceled AP Bio and
01:31:36 ◼ ► then Peacock picked it up. Peacock, as mentioned earlier on this episode. So you could see that.
01:31:42 ◼ ► Then again, Peacock, among the shows that it picked up were shows from other studios. So you
01:31:49 ◼ ► could end up in a situation where Peacock cancels something and the studio who made it is like, "Oh,
01:31:54 ◼ ► maybe we should put this on our own streaming service if we have one." So I think it will
01:31:59 ◼ ► happen. It has happened. It will happen again. But as time goes on and there's less desperation
01:32:08 ◼ ► to get streaming services up and running, I think you'll see it less because you really need
01:32:14 ◼ ► a unique position where somebody feels like they're in a stronger position with the show than
01:32:19 ◼ ► the originator. And when it's streaming to streaming, I think that's less likely to happen.
01:32:24 ◼ ► Less likely to happen to something like The Expanse where the sci-fi channels deal with
01:32:28 ◼ ► The Expanse's production company was very specific in the U.S. and they didn't have some of the
01:32:33 ◼ ► streaming rights they wanted and it was a bad deal for the sci-fi channel, but Amazon could make a
01:32:38 ◼ ► good deal and had been using it in the rest of the world and felt good about it. When there's a lack
01:32:43 ◼ ► of parity like that, you can see it happen more when everybody's just, "I got my own streaming
01:32:48 ◼ ► service worldwide," and everybody's got the same. It's less likely that somebody's going to see a
01:32:53 ◼ ► canceled show and say, "Oh, you know, that would make sense. It doesn't make sense for you, but it
01:32:56 ◼ ► makes sense for us." So you want to look for where there are moments where there's a real disparity,
01:33:11 ◼ ► a Netflix original that they have created and canceled, it is less likely for that to show up.
01:33:19 ◼ ► Because they own it and they killed it. And that's also the case with a lot of stuff is
01:33:32 ◼ ► And streaming services want that. They want to own it all if they can. And they will try to
01:33:42 ◼ ► And finally, Michael asks, "iCloud Drive is super buggy for me. I copy PDFs. It keeps showing upload
01:33:49 ◼ ► signs. Nothing happens for days. Have you guys switched to iCloud Drive or would consider it?"
01:33:54 ◼ ► I have not considered it because I use Dropbox and there are things I use in Dropbox that
01:34:10 ◼ ► things to iCloud Drive, other things I'd have to stay in Dropbox, at which point I think I
01:34:15 ◼ ► would rather keep Dropbox. It has lots of nice kind of fiddly features that you can do on the
01:34:23 ◼ ► a higher level of Dropbox. So I get that kind of functionality, which I find really valuable.
01:34:33 ◼ ► Dropbox experience is on iOS. Files has issues, but Dropbox has real issues. It feels to me like
01:34:39 ◼ ► Dropbox has just decided that strategically it either doesn't care about its iOS experience or
01:34:45 ◼ ► it doesn't want to be seen as just a file provider, which is what my guess is. Because it is so much
01:34:53 ◼ ► more painful to use Dropbox on iOS than it should be. There are plenty of iOS 13 APIs to improve the
01:35:02 ◼ ► files app experience for external providers like Dropbox. And yet Dropbox has always been behind
01:35:08 ◼ ► and wonky. And even to this day, when I use files to import something from Dropbox, I end up seeing
01:35:13 ◼ ► like an old version of my Dropbox that is not what it currently is because for some reason the
01:35:20 ◼ ► Dropbox app isn't updating the data. It's so frustrating. But that said, I have not considered
01:35:27 ◼ ► switching to iCloud Drive for most of my stuff because, you know, I have it built in Dropbox and
01:35:32 ◼ ► Dropbox offers me other features. I would consider switching small things to iCloud Drive in the
01:35:37 ◼ ► meantime, but I'm not going to move house completely. But like, you know, you mentioned,
01:35:42 ◼ ► I agree with you, like Dropbox and iOS, especially in the files that could do with work. It's
01:35:46 ◼ ► embarrassing. But iCloud Drive is bad too though, right? Which is like Michael's question and it's
01:35:51 ◼ ► situations that I have. You say things to iCloud Drive and like I try and open a 46 kilobyte numbers
01:35:58 ◼ ► file and it will sit and spin for 10 minutes before it opens. It's like, why? What are you
01:36:03 ◼ ► doing? This should be on the device. Like what is happening? Right? So I have this problem all the
01:36:08 ◼ ► time with iCloud Drive stuff, right? Like the containers that the apps have inside of iCloud
01:36:14 ◼ ► Drive. I use iCloud Drive like my on device storage. Like I save files there that I'm going
01:36:21 ◼ ► to be sending somewhere else. Like it's like, oh, I've got a PDF that I want to email somebody.
01:36:26 ◼ ► I just save it to iCloud Drive and then email it. I don't use it for storage long-term storage.
01:36:34 ◼ ► Drive for that. I mean, I don't have to. It's just like a, it just goes there because it's just,
01:36:38 ◼ ► it's there, right? Like I just put it there because this is where I put things. Cause I've
01:36:41 ◼ ► been doing that since before on my iPad existed. So it's just part of my workflow, you know, like,
01:36:47 ◼ ► and you've got the buttons to save to iCloud Drive and a bunch of applications rather than like,
01:36:56 ◼ ► yeah, whatever. I'll just put it in iCloud Drive. Thing for Dropbox to me, like I don't really have
01:37:01 ◼ ► any problems with Dropbox. I know a lot of people hate Dropbox, like, but I have no problems. It's,
01:37:06 ◼ ► I think it's a great service. Like, like for example, I couldn't switch to iCloud Drive
01:37:11 ◼ ► because I now have more in my Dropbox in physical, like in, sorry, in like in, in storage
01:37:18 ◼ ► than most of my devices could fit on them. So now, you know, so like, but, but Dropbox has a
01:37:25 ◼ ► solution for this. They're smart sync stuff, right? Where I, I have two different ways of
01:37:29 ◼ ► doing it. I can give a selective sync things, which I do on my iMac Pro, or I can use a smart
01:37:34 ◼ ► sync on devices that I don't need to have everything immediately available. And you just
01:37:38 ◼ ► download the files that you need. Like I think that's a great feature that Dropbox has available.
01:37:47 ◼ ► because it's too much stuff. And honestly, I wouldn't trust iCloud Drive with a terabyte
01:37:52 ◼ ► of data. I just wouldn't because it can't even serve me 45 kilobytes. So I will, I will say you
01:37:59 ◼ ► can actually do that on iCloud Drive. You can, it will download things on demand and you can click
01:38:04 ◼ ► and choose remove download, and it will remove that file from your, from your drive and leave
01:38:08 ◼ ► it in the cloud. So you can do that. But in going to check that right now, I noticed that I, my
01:38:15 ◼ ► iCloud Drive still has the little like clock that says it's uploading one item that's 15K.
01:38:24 ◼ ► the way that you described it. It seemed like it's just going to download stuff. And then I have to
01:38:28 ◼ ► tell it if I want it to go away, but with Dropbox, nothing's downloaded unless I choose it to be.
01:38:34 ◼ ► That's a setting, that's a setting. And I think that, that you can actually set it. So it works
01:38:38 ◼ ► that way. So, but I agree, I am more comfortable using the Dropbox approach there. And I, you know,
01:38:44 ◼ ► iCloud is not without, if this was a case where iCloud worked perfectly and Dropbox was what it is
01:38:49 ◼ ► today, I would still have to use Dropbox for some things, but I would be more tempted to move a
01:38:54 ◼ ► bunch of other things to iCloud Drive, but you're just trading one set of bugs for another set and
01:38:59 ◼ ► more features for me on Dropbox. All right. So that's it for this week's episode of upgrade.
01:39:03 ◼ ► If you want to find our show notes for today, you go to relay.fm/upgrade/281. If you want to have
01:39:08 ◼ ► a question answered on a future episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag
01:39:13 ◼ ► #askupgrade and it may be included. Uh, thanks again to Steven for joining us. If you want to
01:39:18 ◼ ► find Jason online, go to sixcolors.com. He is @jsnell. You can find Jason on many shows here
01:39:24 ◼ ► at relay FM and the incomparable as well. I am @imyke. Thanks to Booz Allen, Direct Mail and
01:39:32 ◼ ► Pingdom for their support of this week's episode. Until next time, say goodbye Jason Snell.