00:00:08 ◼ ► Goodbye I hope you've enjoyed Downgrade, this episode of Upgrade in reverse. You can find me
00:00:13 ◼ ► online as I like Jason is @jsnell J S N E O O L L and you can find Jason's work at sixcolors.com.
00:00:19 ◼ ► I want to thank our sponsors Linode, Butcherbox and Holo. Our show notes are at relay.fm/upgrade/254.
00:00:27 ◼ ► So let's finish up every episode of Upgrade as we always do Jason with some #askupgrade questions.
00:00:42 ◼ ► comes from James. This is also a follow-up which is interesting to have at the end of the show,
00:00:55 ◼ ► I think the challenge is going to be what's the exchange of money for content and that's how I
00:01:04 ◼ ► always feel about this. So if I had, if the money I would spend is worth it then I would do it,
00:01:11 ◼ ► but that's what it would require is it would be something that I felt like, and my hesitation
00:01:16 ◼ ► here is that Luminary really wants to be like Netflix, so they want to charge you a larger
00:01:20 ◼ ► amount of money to give you a range of premium exclusive audio shows. And so my gut feeling is
00:01:28 ◼ ► if a podcast went that way, but it was priced that it only made sense if you want lots of them,
00:01:36 ◼ ► I wouldn't do it. I would be frustrated by that, but it's one of those things if that makes any
00:01:43 ◼ ► sense. Like I pay the Flophouse $5 a month on MaxFun because I like that show and I want to give
00:01:48 ◼ ► them money. But if they turned around and said, well, the Flophouse is now $10 or $15 a month as
00:01:53 ◼ ► a part of Luminary, I'd be like, is there anything else I listened to on Luminary that would make it
00:01:57 ◼ ► worth it? Because I'm not, you know, then suddenly they're pricing it to pay for a whole service.
00:02:04 ◼ ► It's the dilemma everybody has when you have a show you're interested in. It's the Star Trek
00:02:08 ◼ ► dilemma for people in the US where it's like, do I want to pay for CBS All Access for one TV show?
00:02:13 ◼ ► Like ideally that service is priced as a service, not as a stream for a single thing. And if only
00:02:21 ◼ ► one thing on that service interests you, I'm not sure the economics work. So that's my challenge
00:02:26 ◼ ► with something like Luminary is they really want me in their ecosystem. And if they move a show I
00:02:31 ◼ ► like into their ecosystem, that alone is probably not enough to make it a good deal unless I really,
00:02:37 ◼ ► really, really love that show. At which point I guess I should be giving more money to the Flophouse.
00:02:42 ◼ ► >> I think my problem in this would be if I then couldn't listen to it in my podcast app of choice,
00:02:49 ◼ ► because that's going to break my model of listening to the show. Like I'm going to forget,
00:03:02 ◼ ► walled off platform or if they had their own app or whatever, and it wasn't in Overcast anymore,
00:03:09 ◼ ► I would struggle to remember to listen to the show because when I want to listen to a podcast,
00:03:14 ◼ ► I open Overcast and I look at what's in there and I choose what I want, right? But if then that show
00:03:22 ◼ ► >> Yeah, exactly. >> I just put my priority shows in my playlist and I listen to my priority
00:03:26 ◼ ► playlist and that's it. That's like, that's my podcast world. >> So it would be super strange to
00:03:31 ◼ ► me to then have something living outside of that. I think that would be my biggest kind of pause
00:03:37 ◼ ► would be well, I'm not sure if this works in my model of what a podcast would be for me anymore.
00:03:42 ◼ ► And that might make me- >> I actually have this right now. I subscribe to The Athletic,
00:03:46 ◼ ► which is a sports, it's an app and a website and it's a subscription content service. It's like a
00:03:54 ◼ ► sports page, sports website, and you pay. And I like it. I think it's really good content. I'm
00:04:01 ◼ ► happy to pay for it. It is doing a better job most of the time covering sports than my other sports
00:04:07 ◼ ► outlets are. Even my local paper is sort of like neck and neck with it really. And so I want to do
00:04:12 ◼ ► that. Well, they started doing podcasts and they're only listenable within their app. And I actually
00:04:17 ◼ ► filed a bug ticket with them and I said, guys, you need to be able to let me log in with my username
00:04:25 ◼ ► and password in Overcast to a feed URL and get this podcast because I want to listen to it.
00:04:32 ◼ ► I'm paying for it. >> They have a lot of shows too. >> They do. I will never listen to a podcast.
00:04:39 ◼ ► I have listened to a couple, but it has to be like literally I've got my phone. I think of it
00:04:47 ◼ ► or they push a notification to me and I think, oh, I have time to listen to a podcast right now
00:04:53 ◼ ► while I go do an errand or whatever. So it's happened once or twice, but I would listen to
00:04:58 ◼ ► those podcasts regularly if they were in Overcast. And Overcast and most podcast players have this
00:05:04 ◼ ► facility for an authenticated feed where you can put in a username and password and they verify
00:05:09 ◼ ► you and then you get to see the feed. And so, I mean, I've already complained to them about it,
00:05:14 ◼ ► but that proves my point, which is I am paying for a service that provides podcasts that I'm
00:05:19 ◼ ► interested in listening to. And I don't listen to them because I have to use their app and I
00:05:24 ◼ ► don't want to. >> John asks, what is your current robot vacuum recommendation? >> Oh boy, I only
00:05:33 ◼ ► have, I have a Roomba 680, I want to say, and it's running right now. I like it, but I, if I were
00:05:45 ◼ ► buying, I bought it because I thought on a lark, I was like, I really want a robot, this will be
00:05:50 ◼ ► great. I don't know if it'll work or not. I got a deal on the kind of cut rate Roomba, I'm gonna,
00:05:56 ◼ ► I'm gonna use it. And I really like it to the point that now I actually regret buying the cheap one
00:06:03 ◼ ► because I would love the more expensive one with the mapping and stuff like that. And this one is
00:06:07 ◼ ► just one of the dumb ones that just bumps around. >> So I have a Roomba 960, which we got them
00:06:14 ◼ ► around. I got mine about a year ago. You got yours quite recently, right? It was a, yeah. >> Christmas
00:06:20 ◼ ► basically. >> Yeah. And I really like it a lot. Um, it's, it's great. And I, and I, yeah, but now
00:06:26 ◼ ► they have this new one, the, well, they have a couple of new ones, how they're the I series,
00:06:31 ◼ ► which is the one that not only maps, cause mine kind of maps around, but it doesn't remember
00:06:35 ◼ ► where like the certain rooms are, but with the I series ones, you can say, oh, hey, go clean
00:06:42 ◼ ► this specific room. >> Yeah. And that's the killer feature. Cause, and I would totally use that if I
00:06:47 ◼ ► could say now go clean that room. >> And this is also the one where they introduced the, like the
00:06:53 ◼ ► base where it can suck up the stuff for you. So you don't have to empty it as often. >> Yeah. It
00:06:59 ◼ ► comes with a little home and you run it a couple of times and you've got to empty out the dust tray.
00:07:02 ◼ ► So they, they made like a mega home. That's like a tower and built a system where it empties the,
00:07:10 ◼ ► the dirt tray into a big bin, which is brilliant. I mean, it's a lot more money to do that, but it
00:07:15 ◼ ► is kind of brilliant if you're somebody who doesn't want to clean out the Roomba. So yeah. >> I found
00:07:20 ◼ ► out today, Jason, there is also a brand new series, the S series, which is better at edges,
00:07:26 ◼ ► like dealing with edges and corners. >> Oh interesting. >> Cause the Roomba kind of doesn't
00:07:32 ◼ ► do a great job with the very edge of like a, of a wall or something, but they've kind of refined
00:07:38 ◼ ► the design to make it better for that. And it has all the new stuff and they were very expensive,
00:07:43 ◼ ► but I love my Roomba. Uh, I think it's, I think it's a really nice little thing to have at home.
00:07:52 ◼ ► and there are always deals on Roombas. There are deals on Roombas right now. >> Yeah. I will also
00:07:58 ◼ ► say that, that, uh, we have somebody in the chat room who's pointing out that, uh, that they,
00:08:03 ◼ ► they have a, a, a Nito that does the mapping and stuff like that. And I will say Nito is a
00:08:08 ◼ ► competitor to iRobot, um, and Wirecutter really likes their stuff. So I haven't used that cause
00:08:14 ◼ ► I've only ever used one robot, but there are other robot vacuums available. If you're curious about
00:08:18 ◼ ► this, you should go and investigate and maybe look at the Wirecutter's reviews and all of that.
00:08:22 ◼ ► But I will say again, that as somebody who'd never had one and I bought one in December,
00:08:28 ◼ ► I have discovered that I actually really like it and I set it up to go almost every day and it
00:08:35 ◼ ► picks up a lot of stuff. We have two pets and you know, it, it, it really does a good job with dust
00:08:40 ◼ ► and pet hair and stuff like that. And now I regret not splurging on a higher featured model because,
00:08:46 ◼ ► um, because it's really good. And, uh, I'm a little sad that I've just got the one that just kind of
00:08:52 ◼ ► bumps around until it's done, but, uh, it's still pretty great. >> Yeah. When we bought us, they
00:08:57 ◼ ► didn't have the room remembering technology. Cause I would have bought that. That's the one I would
00:09:02 ◼ ► have got. Cause I know that I would have wanted it. Right. I just didn't have it. >> Yeah. Cause I
00:09:05 ◼ ► had that all the time where I want to, I want to, I wanted to clean the hallway and in front of where
00:09:09 ◼ ► the cat box is and stuff like that. And instead I have to pick it up and carry it over there and
00:09:13 ◼ ► press a button and have it bump around over there for a while. And it's dumb. So, yeah. >> Robert
00:09:18 ◼ ► asks, do I still need iTunes match? >> If you have Apple music, you have iTunes match and you don't
00:09:29 ◼ ► let you upload your library and then download it again, DRM free and the Apple music version
00:09:35 ◼ ► matched your library, but all your downloads would still have the Apple music DRM on them. And if you
00:09:40 ◼ ► canceled Apple music, your downloads would go away. That's what it used to be. It's not true
00:09:44 ◼ ► anymore. It hasn't been true for a couple of years. Serenity Caldwell wrote about this when it
00:09:48 ◼ ► happened. And this was quite a bit before she left. I'm more to go to Apple. And that was a year ago.
00:09:54 ◼ ► So it's been a while now that this, I want to say two years now. So you don't need iTunes match. If
00:09:59 ◼ ► you're an Apple music subscriber, if you're an Apple music subscriber, you, uh, you know,
00:10:04 ◼ ► iTunes will scan your iTunes library, or I guess the music app come this fall will scan your
00:10:09 ◼ ► library and it will do the matching and it'll upload things that don't match and it'll make
00:10:13 ◼ ► it all available. And if you were to lose your files, I don't recommend that you delete your
00:10:17 ◼ ► files, but if you were to lose your files and you downloaded the ones that had matched, they would
00:10:23 ◼ ► be DRM free. That's my understanding. So you don't need iTunes match in addition to Apple music.
00:10:30 ◼ ► It's sort of an either or iTunes match is a separate purchase. If you're not an Apple music
00:10:36 ◼ ► subscriber to just get your library synced to all of your devices, and it's a great product,
00:10:41 ◼ ► but if you're using Apple music, you don't need it. Kevin asks, do you have a system for taking
00:10:46 ◼ ► notes while recording each episode about what kind of edits you want to make? Like say, for example,
00:10:50 ◼ ► somebody comes in and interrupts you. So you write down the time that it happened. Yes, Kevin,
00:10:54 ◼ ► that is exactly what I have. I have a notebook in front of me. Um, it's the Pano book by Studio
00:10:58 ◼ ► Neat, which is my favorite notebook for this type of stuff, because it sits very nicely underneath
00:11:03 ◼ ► my keyboard. And every time either I talk over Jason or Jason talks over me, I write down a
00:11:08 ◼ ► little time code. Except this time, because this is just an example. Thank you. I knew you were
00:11:13 ◼ ► going to do that. I was waiting for the moment that you were going to, uh, and then I will go
00:11:18 ◼ ► back in later on and fix that. And that is a, this is a specific way of editing. It's not necessarily
00:11:24 ◼ ► the best way, but for me, I find it gives the best edit to account for speed, which is what we're
00:11:30 ◼ ► going for. Like I, I could sit like I do with some other shows and listen to this entire show and
00:11:35 ◼ ► edit carefully like that, but then upgrade will take at least a day or two more to be released.
00:11:40 ◼ ► And that's not what I want. Um, that's not what we want. I like this show is news focused and for us,
00:11:46 ◼ ► we like to be faster with it. So over time, we've just gotten better at the way that we work
00:11:51 ◼ ► together like that. And I've developed my own little system and I'll take notes, not even just
00:11:55 ◼ ► like little times of when we talk over each other, but sometimes during the show, me and Jason will
00:11:59 ◼ ► make a decision about things. Maybe we want to cut out or change and I just write down a note and
00:12:04 ◼ ► I'll go back in and fix it later on. So that's the system. I do the same. And, um, I, this is
00:12:10 ◼ ► actually why for those who have read me, uh, you know, my pieces about using logic, this is why I
00:12:16 ◼ ► use the remove silence feature and logic, which basically takes all the parts where there's no
00:12:21 ◼ ► sound and makes them disappear. So all that's left with our little blocks that each represent a noise
00:12:27 ◼ ► being made in a particular audio track. And the number one reason that's valuable is you can very
00:12:33 ◼ ► quickly see when somebody talks and then, which is a long block of audio. And then in the middle of
00:12:39 ◼ ► it, there's a block of audio on another person's track and you go, Oh, that's probably not good.
00:12:45 ◼ ► I mean, it may be just a, Oh yeah, you know, an interjection. And when people are having
00:12:49 ◼ ► a conversation and they're going back and forth and you suddenly see a bunch of overlap,
00:12:53 ◼ ► that's the stuff that I I'm visually drawn to. And, and in most of the podcasts I do that, like,
00:13:00 ◼ ► like Myke, that is what I'm trying to really clean up is I want to make it seem like we're completely
00:13:06 ◼ ► simpatico and not in California and England and with Skype lag and occasionally having a false
00:13:13 ◼ ► start, I want to make it seem, and I know you are the same way, make it seem like you, you stop and
00:13:19 ◼ ► I start and then I stop and then you start and we're in perfect harmony because I think it's a
00:13:23 ◼ ► better listening experience and a monologue like this one where I've talked for a long time,
00:13:28 ◼ ► that's really easy because you look and you're just like, Oh, Jason talked for a while and you
00:13:36 ◼ ► working hours? Do you plan your day in this way or do you work on holidays and weekends?
00:13:40 ◼ ► Well, my boss is a jerk and makes me work on holidays. Well, we do the show on a Monday,
00:13:46 ◼ ► which is often a holiday, but we usually still do this show on the Monday. Um, I was talking to
00:13:51 ◼ ► somebody over the weekend and I said, the nice thing about, about, uh, being an independent
00:13:57 ◼ ► worker is I can set my own hours there and they responded, but you work every day. And I said,
00:14:07 ◼ ► but it's also true that it does, it does bleed over sometimes. Like I still edit, and this is
00:14:13 ◼ ► a vestige of when I worked on a Monday to Friday job, but I still edit the incomparable on Saturday
00:14:18 ◼ ► morning. I just, I do that. That's just a thing that I do. And sometimes podcasts get recorded
00:14:23 ◼ ► over the weekend because that's when people are available to do them. Um, I try to be at my desk
00:14:29 ◼ ► at a certain time and leave my desk at a certain time, but there are, I do have the flexibility
00:14:35 ◼ ► to step away and go do something else during the day. And the exchange for that is that I'm also
00:14:40 ◼ ► sometimes recording a podcast at night or on a weekend or doing some other work, um, in what
00:14:45 ◼ ► would traditionally be downtime. Being in the situation that I am in with the type of business
00:14:50 ◼ ► that I run, I do work every single day. Like it's just, even when I'm on holidays, there will be
00:14:55 ◼ ► things that people need, but that's a choice that I make, right? Like I'm fine with that,
00:14:59 ◼ ► uh, because I get to pick when I work, I get to choose that. So yeah, that's the trade-off is you,
00:15:04 ◼ ► you can, I was having this realization because so, so my wife does not have a lot of vacation time
00:15:11 ◼ ► and it just, it strikes me when we are choosing travel together that, uh, her priorities, you know,
00:15:19 ◼ ► have to, we have to start calculating out like when's she going to work and what's she going to
00:15:22 ◼ ► take off and all of that. And it is funny because then I go, uh, I look at it and I'm like, whatever,
00:15:28 ◼ ► like literally I have to move things around and schedule things, but I can go if I want. I can,
00:15:32 ◼ ► I can be gone for this day and I'll just make it work. And, and that is big, that's great. And that
00:15:39 ◼ ► is the payoff. But the other side of it is that you probably have to work times where you might
00:15:44 ◼ ► not otherwise. Yeah. But it's like, I want to spend an extra couple of days on a vacation. I'm
00:15:49 ◼ ► planning fine. I just know I need to keep my phone on me. Like, and then, and then maybe nobody will
00:15:53 ◼ ► bother me that day. Like, or maybe nothing will come up and sometimes that's the case. And then
00:15:57 ◼ ► they just get to enjoy the day. So there, there, that's the thing you work every day, but you don't
00:16:02 ◼ ► have to work all day. Yeah. All right. So that was hashtag ask upgrade. Well, that is hashtag
00:16:09 ◼ ► ask upgrade. It's just beginning. I'm not sure. Uh, this episode is brought to you by our friends
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00:17:58 ◼ ► Our thanks to hollow for their support of this show and relay FM. So we should talk about our
00:18:03 ◼ ► second topic. Our main topic, uh, for this week's episode, the big one, new laptops. That's
00:18:08 ◼ ► hilarious considering last week's episode, talking about laptop rumors with they weren't they, uh,
00:18:14 ◼ ► turns out they did with some of them didn't with some others. We have, uh, an interesting couple
00:18:20 ◼ ► of revisions. We have new, two new laptops and the departure of another, uh, or two new additions,
00:18:26 ◼ ► two new, uh, types of things going on with the MacBook Air. The MacBook Air now starts at $999.
00:18:33 ◼ ► If you're a student, it's 10 99 otherwise, uh, they put a true tone display in it and they updated
00:18:38 ◼ ► the keyboards to have the new quote, new keyboard materials. Um, still the butterfly keyboard,
00:18:45 ◼ ► but with the new materials that came in the MacBook Pro a few months ago. Um, and then the
00:18:49 ◼ ► MacBook Pro, the, the, what has been dubbed the escape, the MacBook Pro with the physical keys
00:18:56 ◼ ► that MacBook Pro is basically half gone, half upgraded the product that now sits in that
00:19:03 ◼ ► line in that space in the line has a touch bar. Now there is no more MacBook Pro with actual, uh,
00:19:09 ◼ ► physical, uh, function keys on it anymore. It has true tone display comes with a T2 chip. And of
00:19:15 ◼ ► course, because it has a touch bar touch ID, um, and also the MacBook, the 12 inch MacBook with the
00:19:21 ◼ ► one USB-C port is gone. It is Gonzo. We'll talk about the MacBook in a minute. Uh, but I want to
00:19:28 ◼ ► kind of get your feeling on the updates to the laptop line. Um, I would expect Jason that you
00:19:34 ◼ ► were only further, uh, recommending the air to people. Uh, but I wonder as well what you think
00:19:39 ◼ ► about the consolidation of the MacBook pro line in that they've really kind of made it all one now
00:19:47 ◼ ► with the touch bar and stuff like that. Yeah. So two things going on here, the air is not much of
00:19:53 ◼ ► an update. It really is a tweak. The best thing was the price went down, honestly, like that's,
00:19:57 ◼ ► that's, that's actually the feature. $100 for re for everyone except, uh, education and $150
00:20:05 ◼ ► for education. And that's probably why they did this, right? So they could get it in before back
00:20:10 ◼ ► to school and at the price point that everybody kind of wants it to be. And I had already done,
00:20:16 ◼ ► I mean, we've got a story on that. I update on six colors. That's like the right laptop,
00:20:20 ◼ ► Mac laptop to buy for a student. I already said it's the MacBook air. The truth is the $999 price.
00:20:28 ◼ ► I mean, and that is the, that is the right price. And we always said that the old non retina air
00:20:32 ◼ ► existed at $999 essentially for education. And here we are education. It's $999 is now the education
00:20:38 ◼ ► price. Let's be, uh, open here. Apple has been making the air available aggressively in specials
00:20:47 ◼ ► at various online retailers for $999 for a long time now, almost since it came out. This is the
00:20:54 ◼ ► new one you're talking about. The new retina air. So, so saying that it, you know, it got cut in
00:20:59 ◼ ► price, um, is good. Um, but I will say that $999, you've been able to get a MacBook air,
00:21:10 ◼ ► maybe you get it for $899 somewhere now, who knows maybe, or maybe they've just, they're there. They
00:21:15 ◼ ► were doing that as a way to keep the price up. And now they're sort of like, no, no, we're going to
00:21:18 ◼ ► actually sell it. But my guess is that you'll still find it for $999. Um, but now the base
00:21:22 ◼ ► price is $1099. Um, other big thing, and this is the Steven Hackett, um, thing you guys talk about
00:21:28 ◼ ► this on connected a lot is the, the, uh, the storage upgrades, which used to be kind of
00:21:32 ◼ ► laughable. Like you had to go up to one and a half terabytes or something like that and pay a fortune
00:21:37 ◼ ► for it. And they, the storage updates seem to be a little more granular and a little more reasonable,
00:21:41 ◼ ► reasonably priced, which is another nice tweak that they're making that I think is more education
00:21:45 ◼ ► friendly. If you are buying a Mac, a Mac laptop for a student this summer, uh, which I may be,
00:21:52 ◼ ► because my daughter's going off to college, I have to see how she feels about her three-year-old
00:22:00 ◼ ► it's unclear whether the new materials keyboard is going to be, um, more reliable. And a lot of
00:22:07 ◼ ► people don't like it for lots of reasons that have been detailed, the travel, the arrow keys,
00:22:12 ◼ ► there's lots of reasons, but it's got touch ID. It's got a beautiful display. Now that it's got
00:22:17 ◼ ► true tone. In addition to that, it's a good, it's a good laptop. And that's the one that I would
00:22:21 ◼ ► recommend that both of these have been put into the keyboard replacement program. They're both in
00:22:25 ◼ ► there. So, you know, if there is a problem, there's a reliability problem for this new materials model.
00:22:31 ◼ ► Um, you've got four years, at least of coverage of it. I know there are a lot of people are going to
00:22:35 ◼ ► say, no, I'm not going to buy a Mac laptop until they change the keyboard. Fair enough. Sometimes,
00:22:39 ◼ ► sometimes people, um, sometimes you don't have that choice. Sometimes you, your kids going to
00:22:44 ◼ ► college and you need to give them a laptop. So what you're going to do, right? And yeah,
00:22:53 ◼ ► or you could, uh, just buy the MacBook air and it's nice. And wait, like I said, I bought two,
00:22:57 ◼ ► we have two of these in my house now. And, uh, and they're pretty great. Actually, they're pretty,
00:23:02 ◼ ► pretty great. Uh, the MacBook pro the MacBook escape thing, like I know from a computer nerd
00:23:10 ◼ ► standpoint, the MacBook escape didn't go away. It just got, uh, it got a processor update and
00:23:17 ◼ ► a touch bar, uh, because it's still the lower power processor, but it is a quad core now,
00:23:22 ◼ ► which it was a dual core before it's got the touch bar. Um, it's only got the two ports,
00:23:28 ◼ ► the two Thunderbolt three ports, whereas the higher end 13 has four. So there's still two
00:23:33 ◼ ► distinct levels of 13 inch Mac pro. That said, I think from a regular person's standpoint,
00:23:44 ◼ ► and even from a product line product marketing standpoint, I feel like it's much more logical.
00:23:52 ◼ ► Now there's clarity. The MacBook pro has touch bar period. The air is not even that much lighter or
00:23:59 ◼ ► thinner than the MacBook pro anymore. So that wasn't a differentiator. Yeah. So here it is
00:24:04 ◼ ► now. Now, yes, there's the one with two and there's the one with four and there's variation
00:24:09 ◼ ► within what the 13 inch Mac book pro is, but they both look pretty much the same and have a touch
00:24:16 ◼ ► bar and a discerning person will know the differences between the top and the bottom of
00:24:22 ◼ ► the line models. But honestly, lots of computer models have differences between the low end and
00:24:28 ◼ ► the high end configurations. These are a little more extreme, but at least it feels, it feels like
00:24:35 ◼ ► the same product. Whereas before it really felt like there were two completely separate 13 inch
00:24:40 ◼ ► Mac book pros. Now it feels like there's one with some variation, even though behind the scenes,
00:24:46 ◼ ► it, you know, it is the evolution of the Mac book escape into something that, but I feel like the,
00:24:52 ◼ ► the touch bar is such a defining characteristic of that product line right now that to have one
00:24:56 ◼ ► without it was super strange. And now, and now it's got it, which is, which is great. But the,
00:25:02 ◼ ► for me, Myke, the big story, and I wrote about this at Mac world last week is this is Apple
00:25:08 ◼ ► finally saying this is like the last shoe to drop in this several year drama of the replacement for
00:25:16 ◼ ► the Mac book air. Cause they came out with a Mac book and it was like, yeah, this is obviously the
00:25:20 ◼ ► future. This is going to be the computer that replaces the Mac book air. And then when they
00:25:24 ◼ ► came out with the Mac book pro line and that escape model, we all remember I think Phil Schiller
00:25:30 ◼ ► standing on stage and saying, you know, this is a great replacement for the Mac book air except
00:25:34 ◼ ► to cost like four or $500 more, but it was the same kind of process or class in terms of power.
00:25:40 ◼ ► And it's got a fan and it's about the same weight and it's about the same size. So you're like,
00:25:44 ◼ ► Oh, this is like a Mac book air, except it was way more expensive. And so there it is. Apple's
00:25:50 ◼ ► got two products that it's basically put out over the course of about a year that are theoretically
00:25:56 ◼ ► Mac book air replacements, and then the air can fade away and they didn't even name the Mac book
00:26:04 ◼ ► the Mac book air wouldn't die. And as of last week, those two products that really were kind
00:26:09 ◼ ► of like claiming to be basically a Mac book air replacement are dead. It's like the Mac book air
00:26:16 ◼ ► took them out. Like they were the, they were the pretenders. They were going to try to take
00:26:19 ◼ ► the Mac book air's place in Apple's product line and they're both gone. And the Mac book air is
00:26:25 ◼ ► here. Who would have bet on that two years ago? That's amazing, but that's the power of the Mac
00:26:30 ◼ ► book air. And it shows you what a miscalculation they made with those two products. I would say
00:26:37 ◼ ► probably what's happened here is Apple maybe didn't realize how powerful a brand they had
00:26:42 ◼ ► in the Mac book air. I think that that branding has resonated with people for long enough
00:26:47 ◼ ► that it was just strong enough, right? Like it just, it just, it hit just about right. But I
00:26:53 ◼ ► think it's also, there's something, something bad happened with the Mac book, right? Like I feel
00:26:57 ◼ ► like, you know, I said this on connected, but I feel like this product didn't get the moment it
00:27:04 ◼ ► was owed. Like it didn't get its place in the plan that they had for whatever reason. You know,
00:27:10 ◼ ► like it feels like this was a product that was supposed to get better, but it never really did.
00:27:15 ◼ ► It didn't have its jump. So this is the thing I, and I was on Twitter, I was talking to Marco
00:27:20 ◼ ► about this on Twitter last week. What other product has that exact same description? It's
00:27:26 ◼ ► trashcan Mac, Mac pro. Right. And I think that, that that may be the source of this is that they
00:27:31 ◼ ► wanted to make the iPad laptop, right? They wanted to make the ultimate super small, super thin,
00:27:37 ◼ ► no fan Mac laptop. And they did. And I, and, and the story of the 12 inch Mac book, at least so far,
00:27:44 ◼ ► maybe it will come back in some form down the road. There are lots of conspiracy theories about
00:27:47 ◼ ► that, about this being a future arm laptop design, but the story of the Mac Mac book 12 inch Mac book
00:27:54 ◼ ► right now is it never got better. And we expect these Apple products to come out and then to see
00:28:01 ◼ ► Apple iterate on them and the Mac pro we expected that. And the Mac book, we expected that and the
00:28:07 ◼ ► Mac book never got better. I would have bet money and I would have lost it that in a matter of a
00:28:13 ◼ ► year or two, the Mac book would have gained ports and probably gained Thunderbolt three
00:28:17 ◼ ► and would have just kind of continually gotten better from its, its, you know, shaky in a way,
00:28:24 ◼ ► very limited start, it would keep improving. And it never did like the air. Exactly, exactly. And
00:28:31 ◼ ► it never did. And my, um, my theory as a person on the outside who is not a computer engineer is
00:28:39 ◼ ► not that fanless design, right? Is that a thermal corner thing where like the parts from Intel
00:28:44 ◼ ► and the heat issues, like the way the whole thing, the whole premise of that product was based on
00:28:49 ◼ ► this particular set of stuff from Intel that is super limited and didn't get better. And
00:28:55 ◼ ► they end up with this product that they're just kind of stuck with a low end processor. That's
00:28:59 ◼ ► not very good. And they, and, and the USB-C port. And, and at some point they're like, look, we,
00:29:04 ◼ ► we should, we should not even, it's, this is a sunk cost. We should just cut it loose and build
00:29:09 ◼ ► a new Mac book air. And I look at it now and I think that's exactly what they did a couple
00:29:13 ◼ ► years ago. Probably. They looked at the Mac book after it being out on the market for a couple
00:29:18 ◼ ► years and said, this is a mistake. We just need to do a Mac book air and we need to cut the Mac book
00:29:22 ◼ ► loose and the Mac book hasn't gotten any updates. And now we've got a Mac book air and then the Mac
00:29:26 ◼ ► book is gone. So I think they just looked at it and realized we made a mistake. This, we made
00:29:31 ◼ ► assumptions with this product. And it turns out that not only is it really limited, but it doesn't
00:29:35 ◼ ► have any room to grow. And they made the Mac book air, which is not, you know, not as advanced in a
00:29:40 ◼ ► lot of ways as the old Mac book air, because a lot of the, so again, the same class of processor is
00:29:46 ◼ ► really in that bottom of the line Mac book pro, but it has a fan. It has touch ID. It has multiple
00:29:55 ◼ ► Thunderbolt three ports. It's, you know, it's better in every way than the Mac book other than
00:30:00 ◼ ► size and weight. So it is fascinating that, that they ended up, this is very clearly like
00:30:06 ◼ ► very quickly too. I think if you think about the timeline, Apple realizing that the Mac book was
00:30:10 ◼ ► a mistake and that they needed to do the Mac book air again. So a bit of lots of refinements to the
00:30:16 ◼ ► laptop line this year, I think like a bunch of speed bumps and stuff like that. I don't think
00:30:20 ◼ ► we were expecting to see anything change on the air for a bit. Um, even on last week's episode,
00:30:26 ◼ ► we were talking about like, Oh, well the escape is probably dead. Right? Like that was, yeah,
00:30:30 ◼ ► except Marco said he heard that there was going to get updated, which it sort of did, but in a
00:30:34 ◼ ► weird way. And yeah. So is this encouraging to you? This continues to be like a, something that
00:30:40 ◼ ► you, you like to see Apple doing. I think it is. I think that Mac book sort of head fake and then
00:30:48 ◼ ► going to the Mac book air is maybe a good example of Apple realizing that its priorities with the
00:30:52 ◼ ► Mac were out of whack also continually updating these, uh, these systems. These were the two
00:30:58 ◼ ► and the Mac book and the Mac book escape were the ones who hadn't gotten an update and everybody was
00:31:01 ◼ ► sort of like, well, what's going to happen. And the answer is one of them became a more of a Mac
00:31:05 ◼ ► book pro and the other one got dropped. And that's the, that's your answer. But Apple has done a
00:31:09 ◼ ► pretty good job of updating the laptops. They seem to have realized that the Mac book itself was just
00:31:14 ◼ ► a bridge too far. Um, they have with the air I'm encouraged. They are pushing the price down on
00:31:20 ◼ ► that retina air, which was the biggest complaint all of us had about it was that it looked really
00:31:24 ◼ ► great, but it was $200 more than the base model of the old Mac book air. And that was, and now it's
00:31:31 ◼ ► a hundred more. Uh, and, and it's, uh, so it's, it's closer. And again, with a deal, you can get
00:31:37 ◼ ► it for nine 99 and that's a pretty good deal. That's a great price for that laptop. So I'm
00:31:42 ◼ ► encouraged that they have a plan and that they have some clarity about what the Mac is now that
00:31:49 ◼ ► maybe they didn't have back when they released that Mac book and, and that keyboard, by the way,
00:31:55 ◼ ► in 2015. Right? Like I think maybe we are starting to see the fruits of that, uh, that change in
00:32:02 ◼ ► attitude toward the Mac that we saw starting a couple of years ago. So what about this 2019
00:32:08 ◼ ► Mac book here with the new keyboard that our friend Roger predicted? Oh, now what do you think?
00:32:15 ◼ ► Sometimes I wonder if maybe what we're hearing is some confusion based on what the parts are.
00:32:25 ◼ ► I think on ATP, I think Marco said, well, they could just do a new, a new Mac book air with a
00:32:29 ◼ ► new keyboard this fall. It seems like they would not bother with this update, but it is a super
00:32:34 ◼ ► minor update. That's just for back to school. So if they had a new Mac book air with a new
00:32:38 ◼ ► keyboard shipping in November, that would be too late for back to school. So maybe they, they rush,
00:32:43 ◼ ► they swap in the new keyboard, which the old Mac book air could get, can get that keyboard if it's
00:32:48 ◼ ► repaired. Right. So that's not a change at all. They added the true tone thing, but it's like,
00:32:52 ◼ ► it may, it may be that the Mac book air mid 2019 is, is replaced with a Mac book air late 2019.
00:33:01 ◼ ► That's one of the reasons they do those early mid late is sometimes models change during a year.
00:33:13 ◼ ► updates, so Apple theoretically doesn't need to update Mac laptops again until next year.
00:33:18 ◼ ► But they often will do Mac updates in the fall. So I don't know. I think it's, I think it's,
00:33:25 ◼ ► I think it's fun that it's mysterious about what they're doing. I think we all anticipate
00:33:29 ◼ ► that we're going to see a new generation of Mac laptops. It's unclear what they will be.
00:33:36 ◼ ► The Mac book pro is the one that probably needs a new, I mean, the Mac book air is essentially
00:33:46 ◼ ► swapped in a new keyboard for it, but the Mac book pro is crying out for that. So I think the
00:33:51 ◼ ► most likely scenario is probably that it's the, it is that 16 inch Mac book pro that is replacing
00:33:57 ◼ ► the 15 inch Mac book pro and that that design could come this fall or it could come next spring.
00:34:03 ◼ ► Because I feel like the Mac book pro needs it the most and that's your high end thing. It's going to
00:34:10 ◼ ► pros who are going to be more finicky about this stuff. Like that's the logical place to roll all
00:34:15 ◼ ► this stuff out and you got the Mac book air ready to go for back to school. Like, do you need more
00:34:20 ◼ ► than that? I don't know. I still think it's possible that we see them. If, you know, I just,
00:34:28 ◼ ► I don't think that this update to the Mac book air precludes them from putting a new keyboard in
00:34:33 ◼ ► towards the end of the year. It doesn't. Like I really see this as like, they wanted to get
00:34:40 ◼ ► that price down. They had a way to do it. And if they did it, they could also change the screen
00:34:45 ◼ ► over, which may have been some other economical reason that they would want to do that. Adding
00:34:49 ◼ ► a feature doesn't necessarily mean it's more expensive, right? Also, you know, conspiracy
00:34:54 ◼ ► theory wise, and I think I mentioned this last week, I don't, I mean, it's possible that the
00:35:00 ◼ ► keyboard place in the Mac book air is a new keyboard size because, you know, the last year's
00:35:11 ◼ ► model and this year's model can be, they can swap in that keyboard, the new keyboard for the old
00:35:15 ◼ ► keyboard. They're the same size. It's possible that that size is the size and shape and all the
00:35:22 ◼ ► dimensions, all the specs that is necessary for this keyboard and the next keyboard. I'm not
00:35:28 ◼ ► saying that that's true. It may require a complete redesign, but I think if they're going to
00:35:31 ◼ ► completely redesign the Mac book air case, it's not going to happen a year after they already did
00:35:37 ◼ ► it. It seems very unlikely that they would do it, but it is possible that they already did it. And
00:35:42 ◼ ► we just don't know, cause they're still using, cause the new keyboard's not ready, but they,
00:35:46 ◼ ► when it is ready, they've got a place to put it. I don't know. I don't know. It's, what's great
00:35:51 ◼ ► about this, if you like mystery, is all of it is possible. Like we could see anything. We could see
00:35:59 ◼ ► an ARM Mac book return to the lineup this fall or next spring too. I mean, there's all of these
00:36:05 ◼ ► things are out there now that Apple is, has kind of cleared the decks of some of our long-standing
00:36:11 ◼ ► Mac laptop questions, like what happens to the Mac book escape and what happens to the 12 inch Mac
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00:37:59 ◼ ► Relay FM. So shall we continue Jason with our second of two kind of mini follow-uppy topics?
00:38:06 ◼ ► Sure let's do that. I love the mini topics. Let's do some. There were some changes in Apple retail
00:38:12 ◼ ► that I wanted to point out because we were talking about this a lot when Angela Ahrens left and we've
00:38:17 ◼ ► been talking about it before like when looking at the way that Apple is selling their products in
00:38:22 ◼ ► Apple stores. So some Apple stores have gotten new signage so there are these new display tables that
00:38:28 ◼ ► have like integrated stands that show the three iPhones next to each other and has a bunch of like
00:38:34 ◼ ► key details to show the differentiation between them. The glass cases on the Apple Watch stand
00:38:40 ◼ ► has been removed allowing you to easily try them on and there is something called Express Checkout
00:38:45 ◼ ► being tried out in a bunch of Apple stores as well where it's basically a checkout desk for
00:38:50 ◼ ► accessories. And I just wanted to kind of get your feeling on this like this seems like a refinement
00:38:56 ◼ ► to the look at our stores that is places of beauty and that maybe trying to make them a little bit
00:39:02 ◼ ► more functional again. Yeah this seems to be in line with what we've talked about since Angela
00:39:11 ◼ ► Ahrens was was leaving which is and for those who don't know our theory is basically that she was
00:39:18 ◼ ► brought in under the assumption that Apple was going to be able to continue selling iPhones
00:39:24 ◼ ► without trying to sell them essentially. Yeah that like the iPhones were selling themselves
00:39:28 ◼ ► effectively. Yeah and that Apple stores were basically brand extensions incredibly popular
00:39:34 ◼ ► profitable brand extensions because really. Beautiful buildings that just happen to have
00:39:39 ◼ ► iPhones in them right that you could walk out with. And throw off enormous amounts of money
00:39:44 ◼ ► while you're focused on brand extension instead of sales which is a great problem to have right.
00:39:50 ◼ ► And what happened is the iPhone sales stalled and they realized they needed to start pushing those
00:39:58 ◼ ► buttons and we did an episode where we talked about that a lot and I leaned on my you know
00:40:02 ◼ ► Apple retail sources people in the trenches who say this is absolutely true that starting last
00:40:07 ◼ ► fall especially the focus has really been on pushing people toward sales like not necessarily
00:40:15 ◼ ► like sleazy sales tactics but like if we do training sessions and education sessions in
00:40:21 ◼ ► the store which they do a lot of let people try the new hardware you know basically like
00:40:27 ◼ ► how how do we expose people to this stuff so that we are going to increase our chance of selling a
00:40:33 ◼ ► new product to them and that is something that they didn't have to do so much of before. So I
00:40:37 ◼ ► look at this and I think this is this is all part of that change which Angela Ahrens wasn't brought
00:40:43 ◼ ► in to really do she was brought in to do the pretty beautiful brand extension thing and this
00:40:47 ◼ ► is much more back to basics retail of we need to make our stores clearer and it easier for people
00:40:54 ◼ ► to give us money because you know any friction in the process used to be not a problem because
00:40:58 ◼ ► people were beating down our doors to buy our iPhones and now we need to coax them in and
00:41:03 ◼ ► convince them to do it and that's a you know Apple still got one of the most powerful retail
00:41:07 ◼ ► operations in the world perhaps the most powerful but they have to work harder than they used to and
00:41:13 ◼ ► this seems to be right in line with that. One of the other big complaints that is levied towards
00:41:19 ◼ ► Apple stores is that it's so difficult to get repairs scheduled right so Apple released their
00:41:26 ◼ ► press release about this and I didn't really see many people talking about it I only found it by
00:41:30 ◼ ► accident that Apple have partnered with Best Buy so there are now 1000 stores across the US
00:41:37 ◼ ► that can do service and repairs for Apple products and so this is going to significantly reduce the
00:41:42 ◼ ► load on the genius growth and also like Apple calls out in their press release that they now have
00:41:49 ◼ ► service for places where they don't have stores and they have no plans for stores so they can do
00:41:55 ◼ ► same-day iPhone repairs and they can do basically everything that an Apple store can do when it
00:42:01 ◼ ► comes to fixing iPhones and stuff like that and I just think that this is a very interesting
00:42:06 ◼ ► partnership as a way to kind of give Apple a bit of a release valve on their technical support.
00:42:12 ◼ ► Kyle: Yeah and it solves the problem of people not being close to an Apple store they talk about how
00:42:19 ◼ ► so much percentage of the US population is near an Apple store but the truth is they don't cover
00:42:24 ◼ ► and a lot of those people are it's a long drive and you're driving there to hopefully get your
00:42:29 ◼ ► computer fixed and then you have to drive back another day and it's a lot of driving and it's
00:42:34 ◼ ► really bad and if you've got a Best Buy you add another thousand centers of repair that's going
00:42:39 ◼ ► to be better and honestly they're trying to grapple with something that we talked about
00:42:43 ◼ ► when we talked about this a few months ago which is the dual purpose of a retail store because it's
00:42:50 ◼ ► not just a beautiful place to come and be part of the community and browse products but it is a
00:42:57 ◼ ► support center for people with broken products and boy if you've ever brought a broken product into
00:43:04 ◼ ► one of those shiny Apple stores it is not a good feeling because they are not it is neither job one
00:43:13 ◼ ► nor job two when you walk in right it's people talking and having a good time and being at the
00:43:18 ◼ ► Apple store and it's people buying products and then you're there you know lugging in your broken
00:43:23 ◼ ► computer wanting support these stores are not designed for one of their primary functions
00:43:29 ◼ ► no in fact I would I would argue that in the long run what Apple needs to do is focus on finding a
00:43:35 ◼ ► way to do and maybe this Best Buy partnership is part of that but like even in the main retail
00:43:39 ◼ ► stores find a way to have the repair and support experience be clearer and more defined and I don't
00:43:49 ◼ ► know whether they should experiment with things like having a support center room on the side in
00:43:54 ◼ ► the back something like that so that you're not any noisy everybody you know doing sessions and
00:44:00 ◼ ► playing with the stuff versus you trying to explain your problem your broken computer like I don't
00:44:07 ◼ ► know how you address that but it feels to me like the at least in the stores that I've been in
00:44:13 ◼ ► they are wildly inappropriate in terms of tone for somebody who has a broken computer in their hands
00:44:19 ◼ ► that they're desperately trying to fix and I'm not saying that they don't give good service I'm saying
00:44:25 ◼ ► I don't ever feel when I bring something in for service that I am that I belong in the store
00:44:32 ◼ ► really a bit fundamentally that I belong in the store I feel at least my gut feeling is like they
00:44:37 ◼ ► ought to have like a side door for the broken computers because I don't belong here I'm not one
00:44:42 ◼ ► of these smiling happy people who's saying oh maybe I'll be an iMac I'm I'll buy an iMac I'm
00:44:51 ◼ ► you know and it's it's a it's not a fun experience or you've got a laptop that won't boot or whatever
00:44:58 ◼ ► it is and I just I think it's a challenge that again was not on the radar I know that they have
00:45:05 ◼ ► they do it but like Angela Ahrendts was not brought in to make an amazing broken computer
00:45:10 ◼ ► experience or broken phone experience that was really not why she was there it's not her fault
00:45:15 ◼ ► that was you know that was not what they were thinking about and I'm encouraged by this because
00:45:19 ◼ ► maybe they it's certainly a way that they could be better is by figuring out how to do that because
00:45:25 ◼ ► this means there's just two things you can have your cake and eat it you can keep making your
00:45:29 ◼ ► stores these beautiful things that are not built for repairs but also make it easier for people to
00:45:33 ◼ ► get repairs by partnering with companies that can and do who provide a different experience
00:45:41 ◼ ► the problem I have with the Best Buy thing is that Apple has also had a whole like they used to have
00:45:47 ◼ ► a very large Apple certified repair you know dealers and things like that and those businesses
00:45:53 ◼ ► have been decimated by the success of the Apple store there are 1,800 authorized service providers
00:46:01 ◼ ► in the US yeah so this is my this is my larger point which is if I was Apple and Apple retail
00:46:08 ◼ ► I think and I'm just gonna throw this out there this is just a wacky idea I would invest in all
00:46:17 ◼ ► of those certified Apple repair people and try to make an effort to make them stronger and to refer
00:46:28 ◼ ► people to them so that these repairs are happening somewhere that is not my beautiful Apple store
00:46:34 ◼ ► at least yeah to a larger degree especially for things like maybe like Macs versus things like
00:46:40 ◼ ► iPhones that are that are super small and complicated and you need specialized equipment
00:46:44 ◼ ► for them but even them maybe like that would be one solution here is to let the independent
00:46:51 ◼ ► certified repair centers handle this stuff and get it out of the Apple store and say no what you
00:46:57 ◼ ► should do is you know you go and you click on a genius appointment I have a broken Mac and maybe
00:47:01 ◼ ► what they say is you have a repair center next to you near you you should go to them not to us and
00:47:08 ◼ ► they could just push some of that stuff aside because one of the problems here is I think the
00:47:12 ◼ ► fundamental idea Apple wants to control everything and so they say well we got retail stores and we're
00:47:17 ◼ ► going to do all our support in there and we're going to get everybody else out and we're going
00:47:20 ◼ ► to do it all ourselves which is fine if you do it but the problem is if you are if you're not
00:47:27 ◼ ► focused on it so you've taken somebody else's stuff and then because you're Apple and then you
00:47:34 ◼ ► don't pay it enough attention that's the most maddening thing that Apple can do is or anybody
00:47:39 ◼ ► who wants to have complete control over something is okay take complete control but then you need
00:47:43 ◼ ► to own it and and instead these people who are independent Apple retailers and repair centers
00:47:50 ◼ ► and things like that that's just that business has been brutal because Apple stores are so successful
00:47:56 ◼ ► so I don't know I again it's not like Apple stores don't do repairs and that Apple doesn't you get in
00:48:01 ◼ ► it's nice to take it into the Apple store and sometimes it's convenient if you live close to one
00:48:06 ◼ ► it's more that it really doesn't feel like the Apple store as it's defined today is built for it
00:48:12 ◼ ► like they used to have genius bars in the back of the store right they don't even have those anymore
00:48:16 ◼ ► so you you just hold your broken computer and stand there or sit on a bench somewhere until
00:48:20 ◼ ► someone comes to take it away it is very sad it is by yeah you prop your broken iMac against a tree
00:48:26 ◼ ► and wait for a magical Apple genius to appear it's not not there's more work to do here but I I'm
00:48:32 ◼ ► encouraged it these moves make me feel like they know that there's something wrong yeah there's one
00:48:37 ◼ ► little thing it's one like one last little thing it's all coming from a press release so it's the
00:48:41 ◼ ► squeakiest loveliest version it can be but when they say about the 1800 Apple authorized service
00:48:47 ◼ ► providers that's tripled over the last three years that's good so that I mean you would assume I mean
00:48:52 ◼ ► that means they didn't have a lot so when you talk about decimation that's what the decimation was
00:48:56 ◼ ► right there were not many three years ago yeah they they all yeah I mean the rise of the Apple
00:49:00 ◼ ► store killed all that I mean you used to go buy a Mac at your local computer shop right I think a
00:49:05 ◼ ► lot of people did that some people went to Best Buy or wherever but a lot of people or your Mac
00:49:10 ◼ ► breaks and you take it to your local Mac repair shop and now you take it to the Apple store and
00:49:15 ◼ ► they they lost so much of their business and a lot of those companies are hurting or gone and so uh
00:49:21 ◼ ► yeah yeah more maybe that was maybe just a little bit of a mistake on Apple's part I don't know
00:49:27 ◼ ► and our first little follow-up mini topic today uh publishers are unhappy with Apple news plus
00:49:33 ◼ ► according to a report from business insider many publishers are not seeing good revenue from Apple
00:49:40 ◼ ► news plus in some cases there have been reports from publications that they are seeing one twentieth
00:49:46 ◼ ► of what Apple told them they would likely receive or that it is about equal with the money that they
00:49:51 ◼ ► received from texture which is not good if that's the case yeah um I was gonna say the um in
00:49:59 ◼ ► journalism Myke we call this dog bites man okay the most common and obvious of stories of course
00:50:07 ◼ ► everybody said this before of course this was going to happen Apple was not going to be able
00:50:11 ◼ ► to live up to their promise how many people do we know who tried it out on the trial period and then
00:50:16 ◼ ► cancelled it and don't use Apple news plus I'm you know it's I am not surprised it's not a great
00:50:21 ◼ ► experience uh it's and the terms were never great for publishers so how how unsurprising is this
00:50:28 ◼ ► uh the report from business insider sites that Apple is encouraging feedback from publishers um
00:50:35 ◼ ► who apparently seem ultimately unhappy with the magazine format like that that isn't what a lot
00:50:41 ◼ ► of companies want to do which again is is not surprising um and it also seems that users are
00:50:48 ◼ ► confused with the offering like what is free what is paid uh-huh I don't think Apple did a very good
00:50:54 ◼ ► job of communicating I don't think they've done a very good job of pushing it um yeah this as you
00:51:01 ◼ ► say this is not a surprise to anybody who was paying attention because when it was announced
00:51:07 ◼ ► it was very much a huh okay right like it it wasn't much and and it doesn't seem like it's
00:51:20 ◼ ► I don't know why they launched this when all their other service stuff that they were doing is
00:51:34 ◼ ► on the mac version you could just get all the pdfs if you hadn't downloaded all the pdfs yeah yeah
00:51:39 ◼ ► yeah and and it's not a good experience like I used it and and in a an hour using it it was very
00:51:46 ◼ ► clear that it was a complete disaster that I I want to sign up for these things you know you want
00:51:52 ◼ ► to sign up for the uh favorites of the things you want you want to be able to browse them directly
00:51:57 ◼ ► or have them integrated in your news feed they should probably be tagged as being part of news
00:52:00 ◼ ► plus you should be able like the whole app needs to be better and then news plus needs to be better
00:52:05 ◼ ► integrated into it plus there's this whole thing that it's coming from texture so there's a lot of
00:52:10 ◼ ► magazine pdfs and that is not what apple news is about apple news is about reading individual
00:52:15 ◼ ► articles and uh it did a bad job of that and uh also it's using a lot of magazine publishers when
00:52:23 ◼ ► probably news publishers were better but they couldn't make deals with many of them other
00:52:27 ◼ ► than the wall street journal and the la times so it's a mess it should never have launched
00:52:32 ◼ ► it's not good i will revisit it at some point maybe in the fall but like unless they make major
00:52:38 ◼ ► changes to the news app which we haven't seen in any of the betas right like it is uh you know wow
00:52:46 ◼ ► it feels like some senior person at apple really believed the pr about how great apple news was
00:52:53 ◼ ► and that how um and that they were going to just be able to to march on in here and solve
00:52:58 ◼ ► everybody's problem with their amazing product and all of us are like no apple news isn't that good
00:53:03 ◼ ► and you're bolting to to it something that doesn't work right and doesn't fit and the terms are bad
00:53:20 ◼ ► what i would say is if apple is committed to making apple news plus better and making the
00:53:24 ◼ ► apple news app better and making and working better with publishers i think they could fix
00:53:29 ◼ ► this and i think it could be a good product however i have seen zero evidence that apple
00:53:36 ◼ ► is actually committed to making news better and making better deals for publishers and making it
00:53:41 ◼ ► a more usable app zero effort and my apologies to those who use apple news i think it's not very good
00:53:47 ◼ ► and i think any and it's too complicated and any added complexity like a set of premium feeds
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00:57:07 ◼ ► sub stream time here we go hbo max who's max you say max is a new streaming service that's who they
00:57:14 ◼ ► are this is the streaming service that hbo was created to try and compete against disney plus
00:57:20 ◼ ► and netflix and you may say to yourself but mike what about hbo now and go well you need to already
00:57:27 ◼ ► be a hbo customer right to get now and go well not to get go now is over the top and i i think
00:57:36 ◼ ► it's gonna die yeah it probably will i think this is literally going to replace it that if you want
00:57:43 ◼ ► to get hbo content you need to subscribe to hbo max and the hbo now product i would not be surprised
00:57:48 ◼ ► if this is literally going to be hbo now that it's literally they're going to take the tech they use
00:57:53 ◼ ► to build it convert everybody's subscriptions and say it's all of hbo plus now you get friends
00:58:00 ◼ ► reruns yay yeah but so they will also have and this is one thing that none of their services have
00:58:06 ◼ ► right now um but max is going to have original content that will live in the streaming service so
00:58:14 ◼ ► they have announced a bunch of deals with a bunch of big names people like reese witherspoon she's
00:58:19 ◼ ► got two project projects with a hello sunshine company she is a powerhouse in this age uh anna
00:58:25 ◼ ► kendrick nicole kibman many more there's a i'm going to put a link in the show notes to a variety
00:58:30 ◼ ► article where they break down all the original content they've got lots of tv shows lots of
00:58:34 ◼ ► movies lots of original stuff uh is coming to hbo max um again we don't know what it's going to be
00:58:41 ◼ ► like uh of course as well a vast array of warner content for example friends this will be the place
00:58:47 ◼ ► that you will have to watch friends if you're in the us there is some question about international
00:58:52 ◼ ► rights which is like a whole other thing so we talked about this at length on the tv talk machine
00:58:58 ◼ ► podcast that i do with tim goodman uh episode 225 we'll put a link in the show notes last week
00:59:03 ◼ ► and we had a nice letter on that episode from joe steel our friend and uh one of his points is
00:59:10 ◼ ► that yeah all the international rights are sold in in various markets for a long time so that's
00:59:15 ◼ ► going to stall their international rollout for a long time they also made a lot of bad mistakes or
00:59:20 ◼ ► at least they lacked foresight for what they were going to do so like harry potter is sold to nbc
00:59:25 ◼ ► universal until 2025 or something like that so they can't get the harry potter stuff that they
00:59:30 ◼ ► it's their product but they can't put it on their service until the mid mid 2020s like it is
00:59:37 ◼ ► uh kind of a mess but this is what happens when you change direction uh rapidly in a year
00:59:45 ◼ ► basically with a new owner and that's okay prepared for it that's the key one media had a plan
00:59:51 ◼ ► at and t do not want one immediate plan no they want a new plan and i i'm gonna say too uh and
00:59:57 ◼ ► i talked about this with tim um i do believe that hbo now will just be retired or turned into hbo
01:00:04 ◼ ► max um the differentiator there hbo now is actually really a bold move it was the idea that you could
01:00:09 ◼ ► get you could not subscribe to any traditional cable service and you could still stream hbo
01:00:14 ◼ ► so hbo go is you know for people who have cable and have an hbo subscription and you get hbo go
01:00:21 ◼ ► so you can stream it too like me hbo now you're a cord cutter you don't need anything you just
01:00:26 ◼ ► pay them directly and you get hbo's content as a stream which is great it was a bold move on their
01:00:31 ◼ ► part because it's a it's saying you don't need to pay our our big source of money cable companies
01:00:37 ◼ ► and satellite companies you can just pay us and we'll give you our shows and like it was a big
01:00:41 ◼ ► move the problem is you know disney comes out they say they're going to be cheap at launch with their
01:00:45 ◼ ► streaming service they need a warner media streaming service but how do you price it if
01:00:50 ◼ ► you already have an over top over the top streaming service all it is is hbo and it costs way more than
01:00:56 ◼ ► any of your competitors already i think the answer is going to be you don't offer that anymore you
01:01:02 ◼ ► turn that into this hbo max that's got even more content in it for that price or maybe even an
01:01:09 ◼ ► introductory price that's lower than that and if all you want is hbo you can get that through
01:01:16 ◼ ► cable but if you want to do it over the top stream you need hbo max and you'll pay for that and you'll
01:01:23 ◼ ► get all of this extra stuff i think that's where there's there has not been any reporting but i
01:01:27 ◼ ► cannot it seems by far the most logical thing for them to do and honestly i think this is the right
01:01:34 ◼ ► move i think they've got a lot going against them because they're saddled with bad contracts
01:01:38 ◼ ► bad deals bad international like this is going to be really rough for a while but i think it's the
01:01:44 ◼ ► right thing to do because hbo is a good brand warner is not warner is an old brand if you're
01:01:56 ◼ ► yeah but honestly it's a bad brand like hbo game we have the height of game of thrones right like
01:02:04 ◼ ► hbo is a brand that means good tv and i think that it's the best piece of of branding they've got so
01:02:13 ◼ ► they ought to ride it and they've got this group at hbo and again this is that story that we talked
01:02:17 ◼ ► about where it's you know the they get on stage and they tell the people at hbo thanks for being
01:02:21 ◼ ► very profitable and winning lots of awards you've got a double or triple or quadruple your output
01:02:26 ◼ ► because we live in a different world now and that at&t executive was kind of a jerk um you know the
01:02:32 ◼ ► the uh president of hbo who's been who was so successful tried to spin it he ended up quitting
01:02:38 ◼ ► or being shown the door regardless but he's out they've got new people in there the way they did
01:02:44 ◼ ► it just like with their current position with all their contracts the way they did it not great i
01:02:47 ◼ ► think that's hbo or that's at&t uh maybe being more abrasive than they need to be but were they
01:02:52 ◼ ► right i think they were i think you you look at hbo and say thank you for winning at this game
01:02:58 ◼ ► that was the way to win 10 years ago it's not your fault that the world has changed but the world has
01:03:04 ◼ ► changed i mean i went through this when i talked to people who are doing print journalism and i
01:03:08 ◼ ► said you got to do the web it's the same thing it's like you're not doing a bad job but the job
01:03:13 ◼ ► you're doing can't exist anymore the world is changing around you yeah we need to do something
01:03:18 ◼ ► new so taking the hbo development engine and also pouring in turner and and the stuff they've got
01:03:23 ◼ ► there like adult swim and they've got a bunch of comedy stuff on on tbs and they've got uh you know
01:03:28 ◼ ► they've got conor o'brien's over there and samantha b is over there and then they got john oliver over
01:03:33 ◼ ► here like there's some good stuff there right but like hbo you're really good at making great stuff
01:03:37 ◼ ► that people like and people like your brand and your new task is you're gonna have to make a lot
01:03:42 ◼ ► more of it because we need to program a giant streaming service and so it's been ugly it's
01:03:46 ◼ ► gonna be ugly and i think they're doing exactly the right thing it's just gonna be hard because
01:03:51 ◼ ► of all the decisions that have been made over the last 10 years by people who are probably not even
01:03:56 ◼ ► there anymore certainly the old owners and probably old management and they're gonna have
01:04:01 ◼ ► to unwind all that stuff because they didn't have those people did not have the foresight
01:04:06 ◼ ► to realize like disney did um a lot sooner that they have to go direct a consumer with a streaming
01:04:13 ◼ ► service so it'll be interesting to watch i think they've got a great library even so it is going
01:04:17 ◼ ► to be messy but i do think that they've got a lot of compelling stuff and um and we'll see how it
01:04:22 ◼ ► goes but like i i think it'll be um i think it'll be a player i'm i'm intrigued by it even though
01:04:28 ◼ ► it's yeah yeah there's hey we're the company that brought you harry potter we don't have harry potter
01:04:34 ◼ ► ouch but we got a game of thrones spin-off how about that have they the yeah there's a game of
01:04:40 ◼ ► thrones spin-off in the works the question is i assume that will run on hbo but of course i
01:04:45 ◼ ► imagine that hbo max will be a superset it will be literally everything that's on hbo plus originals
01:04:53 ◼ ► and catalog content uh and and so um the hbo or the game of thrones spin-off will presumably
01:05:00 ◼ ► premiere on hbo and also be on hbo max so they'll be able to promote it that way it's interesting
01:05:04 ◼ ► that they have gone with the hbo brand right like that they're rolling all of warner media stuff
01:05:08 ◼ ► under hbo like they know where they're where they're it's the best it's the best name they
01:05:12 ◼ ► they own right i mean i are they going to call it like the turner or the warner or the those are
01:05:16 ◼ ► corporate names like tbs tnt like it's not going to be the hbo we know but it is a name that people
01:05:23 ◼ ► recognize and it has positive associations it is a symbol of quality they win lots of awards
01:05:29 ◼ ► i it's the best they got and i think better that than they invent a new a new name for it some
01:05:34 ◼ ► weird hulu kind of name for it like don't even just hbo max max is it's a weird name i guess they
01:05:42 ◼ ► didn't want to be hbo plus because everybody else is a plus but maybe that meant they should have
01:05:47 ◼ ► been but but using hbo as the brand it's the right way to go i don't know if it'll work but i think
01:05:53 ◼ ► it's the best of the the best hand for them to play let's put it that way based on the cards
01:05:57 ◼ ► they've been dealt by the previous regime yep set to debut in spring 2020 um no word about
01:06:03 ◼ ► international availability which is a surprise i mean but as we said right if they they might not
01:06:08 ◼ ► want to do it until they can unwind some of those deals so it might be like 2021 2022 i thought i
01:06:12 ◼ ► read somewhere they're going to put it in beta this fall and i don't know what that means other
01:06:17 ◼ ► than maybe what they'll be doing again if my theory holds they'll just start adding some
01:06:20 ◼ ► catalog content to hbo now but it is funny that like friends will leave netflix at the end of the
01:06:27 ◼ ► year but most people might not even be able to watch it for a few months yeah well my guess my
01:06:32 ◼ ► guess is that's an example if they do this beta thing is that friends will just show up on hbo
01:06:36 ◼ ► now yeah at that point and and and they'll be transitioning it to hbo max or they'll call it
01:06:40 ◼ ► hbo max but it won't all be there it won't be originals it'll just be the the stuff that was
01:06:45 ◼ ► in hbo now that's my guess but we'll see apple tv plus's c s ee is as expensive as we thought it was
01:06:52 ◼ ► rumored to be one of the most expensive tv shows of all time and the wall shoot journal is reporting
01:06:57 ◼ ► that apple has spent nearly 15 million dollars per episode on the jason mamoa sci-fi drama
01:07:02 ◼ ► i'd put this into context house of cards cost 4.5 million dollars an episode so huge massive yeah
01:07:10 ◼ ► altered altered carbon i know um cost a lot of money that was i think previously had been
01:07:16 ◼ ► discussed as possibly being the most expensive tv show ever made per episode um and game of
01:07:21 ◼ ► thrones obviously has cost a fortune so it might be but we we had heard and we said and people were
01:07:26 ◼ ► like where did you hear that and it's like uh places i am not able to reveal my sources but
01:07:30 ◼ ► definitely heard through the grapevine that it was incredibly expensive and so it was fun to see this
01:07:34 ◼ ► story that it's like yeah it's 15 million per episode that's what it cost yeah so whoever is
01:07:39 ◼ ► the most expensive or not it kind of doesn't matter it's in the very very top top tippy top
01:07:44 ◼ ► tier which is bold for a company that doesn't have any track record uh we're producing content
01:07:52 ◼ ► um you know because like the reason i bring out house of cards that was the breakout for netflix
01:08:03 ◼ ► by the end now i know sci-fi is obviously more expensive to make if you want to do it properly
01:08:09 ◼ ► um but it is just a very interesting thing and also this report talks about and it rounds up
01:08:14 ◼ ► some other stuff so the morning show so jennifer aniston reese with the spoon steve corral they
01:08:20 ◼ ► are all earning over a million dollars each for appearing in it per episode uh so that's another
01:08:26 ◼ ► thing to think about the reason i bring that up you'd couple that in with the 15 million dollar
01:08:31 ◼ ► cost per episode or something like see i think apple just don't care about that 1 billion dollar
01:08:35 ◼ ► budget anymore like that that budget that number that we heard about 1 billion dollars i don't
01:08:41 ◼ ► think that that is a thing because they are pouring money into this like i it seems like at this point
01:08:47 ◼ ► you just got to ignore that billion they're putting in as much as they want to put in now i think
01:08:51 ◼ ► that's a lot of money being thrown around you gotta you know you gotta make a you got the money you
01:08:57 ◼ ► gotta make a strong impression you gotta have stuff that you feel like how does apple this is
01:09:02 ◼ ► a good question we've been debating how does apple differentiate apple tv plus because it's just more
01:09:08 ◼ ► shows like hey we got shows but they can't do what they do with apple products right where it's like
01:09:14 ◼ ► we we have made something that nobody else could make they're literally just working with tv
01:09:17 ◼ ► producers to make tv shows so how do you do it i gotta say one way you do it just spend more money
01:09:23 ◼ ► because you're apple and then you say we are we are making tv at a level that no one else can
01:09:28 ◼ ► because they can't afford it like netflix can afford it but netflix has to do a lot of shows
01:09:32 ◼ ► and they're they're being a little more ruthless with it and they can afford it and they will but
01:09:36 ◼ ► like that's one way to play with the big boys well and also there's like a different economy
01:09:39 ◼ ► right like netflix has to make their money by making good tv right so like they have to make
01:09:45 ◼ ► good stuff to make the money that they need to make more stuff well apple has a literal press
01:09:52 ◼ ► like money printing press so they can just keep pouring money in and it won't be a problem because
01:09:58 ◼ ► they make so much of it that they've just got it sitting around right like they could just keep
01:10:03 ◼ ► doing this every single show could be a flop but it doesn't matter because they can just keep
01:10:08 ◼ ► putting more money into it if they want to right like if netflix all of their shows for a year flop
01:10:14 ◼ ► that's going to harm them for the next year but for apple it doesn't matter it just doesn't matter
01:10:21 ◼ ► they can just keep doing it and that is what makes them a threat but they still may fail
01:10:27 ◼ ► spectacularly we just don't know yet right but it's like they could just the money doesn't matter
01:10:31 ◼ ► we'll just keep putting more money into it until until it works or completely flames out
01:10:36 ◼ ► yep should we do some follow-up it's a good thing for the show yeah yeah let's do some follow-up um
01:10:44 ◼ ► i have as of today put the ipad os beta on my ipad congratulations you know i've been talking
01:10:51 ◼ ► about it i haven't done it i've finally done it i'm very excited about it i like a lot of it a lot
01:10:59 ◼ ► it's buggy like a beta is right like it's just stuff's weird in places using a mouse is as
01:11:06 ◼ ► incredible as i wanted it to be i think it's fantastic it makes me very happy i love the new
01:11:12 ◼ ► home screen and the window stuff is it's taking some time i'm trying to get used to it it's it's
01:11:18 ◼ ► difficult because the apps that i would want to use i can't right like i can't use google docs
01:11:23 ◼ ► and google sheets yet because they don't support that the window windowing feature um but i like
01:11:29 ◼ ► although you could although you can load it in a safari desktop view well uh kind of works
01:11:34 ◼ ► i would say that the google differently doesn't work the google docs stuff is is good in a browser
01:11:40 ◼ ► window it is not perfect like trying to select text and copy and paste is is not good right now
01:11:46 ◼ ► and i i don't know what apple can do to try and fix that but i would like to see them do that um
01:11:52 ◼ ► somehow it's basically the system and google docs on the web are fighting against each other as to
01:11:57 ◼ ► who owns the cursor talking about that i'm struggling to get used to the cursor placement
01:12:03 ◼ ► stuff and the copy and paste things um because the the little tips the little tool tips you ever
01:12:09 ◼ ► call them they still pop up and i wasn't expecting that so i'm still trying to get my head around
01:12:15 ◼ ► a lot of the text stuff uh i've been like looking at apple's website and trying to get trying to
01:12:20 ◼ ► like understand the gestures like i can't do that i cannot seem to do the one where you can just
01:12:26 ◼ ► tap and select like just drag and select a block of text i'm struggling with that one so i'm still
01:12:33 ◼ ► trying to get used to it uh but a lot of what's in here is really great dark mode is awesome i
01:12:38 ◼ ► think it looks fantastic uh so yeah i'm i'm i am looking forward to seeing more of what's going on
01:12:48 ◼ ► so i'm very excited about it yeah it really is the the typical beta thing where there are apps that
01:12:53 ◼ ► you should be a lot better but they've got to be updated to support it and unless you're on a beta
01:12:58 ◼ ► of something test flight beta you're not going to see that stuff and google you know it's google
01:13:02 ◼ ► will do it six months later that'll be great when they do it but they're going to do it six months
01:13:06 ◼ ► later because they always do um a couple of apps just launch and then quit which is fine like
01:13:11 ◼ ► fair enough it's a beta and uh the files app is one that is funny because there's so much
01:13:17 ◼ ► work in progress on the files app in terms of adding um external device support and server
01:13:23 ◼ ► support and stuff like that and it's i found like from beta to beta features come and go
01:13:30 ◼ ► again that's that's beta life but i have had it on my ipad for quite a while now and um
01:13:37 ◼ ► and i'm still using it and it's still fine i've managed to get by so that's that's good
01:13:42 ◼ ► hashtag snow talk question to open the show as we always do you can send in a tweet with the
01:13:46 ◼ ► hashtag snow talk and it can be included in a future episode uh a question this time comes
01:14:04 ◼ ► if you're on the phone with somebody you should not be talking to them from the bathroom it depends
01:14:11 ◼ ► how close you are but i would say i would mostly agree with you i don't think there's anybody in
01:14:16 ◼ ► the world i would want to talk to when i'm in the bathroom but i know that that's the thing for some
01:14:20 ◼ ► people yeah i guess i i would i would caution against it um if you're just listening to stuff
01:14:25 ◼ ► i don't think i have a problem with it in terms of acceptability i will warn you you are at risk of
01:14:30 ◼ ► dropping your air pods uh down the drain or in the toilet or wherever a place that it should not go
01:14:37 ◼ ► because then you would have to put it back in your ear afterward and that's not a good idea so i think
01:14:42 ◼ ► if you're going to use any technology in the bathroom the air pods are in the level of it's
01:14:47 ◼ ► okay because you're touching the other technology right like you're touching your phone or whatever
01:14:53 ◼ ► when you're in the bathroom at least the air pods that go in the ears and they stay there so in
01:14:58 ◼ ► theory they're more acceptable well i mean i i bring my phone into the bathroom just to press
01:15:03 ◼ ► play and you know and put it on a speaker and listen to it in the shower that's not the same as
01:15:09 ◼ ► um you know yeah again hygiene is important this is what i'm going to say hygiene is important you
01:15:15 ◼ ► got to be wear dropping your air pods in a place that you um are not going to be able to retrieve
01:15:19 ◼ ► them or won't want to retrieve them and there's some social issues in terms of um nobody wants
01:15:25 ◼ ► to be on a conference call where you're talking to them and then they hear a flush that's a bad idea
01:15:28 ◼ ► that's not good so i would say watch out for those but more broadly if you're you wander into the
01:15:34 ◼ ► bathroom and you've got your air pods in um sure i find that acceptable that's not my devices in
01:15:42 ◼ ► the bathroom i've i i see no shame in this i will be that person that's fair i will be that person
01:15:48 ◼ ► that's fair hey mike did you know that it's um i was in boston over the weekend and i got to
01:15:54 ◼ ► experience a really nice kind of like a warm like a hot summer which is fun yeah back here in san
01:15:58 ◼ ► francisco we don't get that a lot from relay fm this is upgrade episode 254 today's show is brought