00:00:19 ◼ ► My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined across this podcasting table in San Jose, California by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.
00:00:49 ◼ ► We are issuing most of our usual format today because there's way too much to talk about.
00:01:00 ◼ ► where we will go through a list of things and score them, and then it comes out on the other end and we see who won.
00:01:05 ◼ ► I don't think we need to dive into this one, because we have done a lot of adjudication in the background.
00:01:27 ◼ ► I want to consider possibly forcing us to make some riskier pics in some of our pics down the road,
00:01:54 ◼ ► I just wonder if maybe there's one or two pics that should be forced out of our comfort zones,
00:10:28 ◼ ► I have a lot of those because I write about this stuff, but people take screenshots and
00:10:47 ◼ ► It's it doesn't, I really am looking forward to digging into it because it strikes me as
00:10:51 ◼ ► being an extension of what they've been doing with the last couple of versions of photos
00:10:57 ◼ ► No, they're really just trying to, you know, in the end, what the deal is with photos is
00:11:03 ◼ ► And the goal is to try to find ways with machine learning to float up things that you want
00:11:12 ◼ ► And I think this version, they got to do an interface refresh to kind of like push that
00:11:35 ◼ ► And then the video thing, I mean, one of the things I like about Craig Federighi's on stage
00:11:59 ◼ ► He has, he has got that fun loving guy persona and they've used him as a vehicle for jokes
00:12:04 ◼ ► You could look at it and be like, oh, that lovable scamp, like he's doing it on his own
00:12:15 ◼ ► They not only do they cheer him because he's like their guy, but he gets them on a level
00:12:19 ◼ ► that maybe some of the other people don't because they're in product marketing or something
00:12:28 ◼ ► And so that allows him to do things like talk about the fact, like later he talked about
00:13:14 ◼ ► It reminded me of two years ago when they, when they showed off the new iPad stuff, right,
00:13:38 ◼ ► There were multiple features that I thought they could have spent 20 minutes on that they
00:14:03 ◼ ► One that they did spend a lot of time on because it lent in with privacy was sign in with Apple.
00:14:09 ◼ ► Yeah, it's definitely a middle finger at Facebook and Google who they put on the slide.
00:14:23 ◼ ► from the perspective of like app developers want to set up an account and they're using
00:14:50 ◼ ► So you hand over the ability for the login to be held by a Google or a Facebook and then
00:14:59 ◼ ► But now Apple's doing it instead and it gives people more of an option and what looks like
00:15:21 ◼ ► And the email thing, Dan Morin was sitting next to me and he actually wrote a piece about
00:15:25 ◼ ► this, I think earlier this year, about how this was a way for Apple to have its commitment
00:15:34 ◼ ► So Apple, you know, saying if you don't want to give these people your email, your actual
00:15:44 ◼ ► And if you're tired of seeing the emails from them, you just turn that off and it's gone.
00:16:01 ◼ ► If you see, like, I don't know if they expose the email address that it's sent to, right?
00:16:26 ◼ ► And as a user, I have some questions about, like, so do I lose all of the ability to manage
00:16:56 ◼ ► even on the web if websites want to use this as the way for you not to have to register
00:17:13 ◼ ► I was concerned before this event about shortcuts that I thought shortcuts would not make it
00:17:26 ◼ ► But what it got, I mean, what makes sense, I think it's in the Siri organization, right?
00:17:57 ◼ ► Our friend Jammers in the chat room says automations include time location, opening specific apps
00:18:17 ◼ ► I think the theory is once an app is so tied into the system that individual system updates
00:18:47 ◼ ► Time of day, alarm, Apple watch workout, arrive, leave location, connect to carplay, airplane
00:18:57 ◼ ► And by the way, the Apple websites you showed me before we started, even the Apple websites
00:19:08 ◼ ► So when you go to the preview pages for iOS or whatever, you have your kind of overview
00:19:34 ◼ ► Yeah, it sounds like there's some interaction that's possible in terms of like a follow-up
00:19:41 ◼ ► I don't know exactly but it's the people on the shortcuts Reddit have gone mad with details
00:20:24 ◼ ► I've really enjoyed the opening video that they had by the two fashion and beauty YouTubers.
00:20:43 ◼ ► One is when they were talking about makeup because these are beauty and fashion vloggers
00:20:55 ◼ ► she's not going to be able to use these makeup and accessories because and then they said
00:21:01 ◼ ► which is logical but you know Apple doesn't need to extend features back to old hardware
00:21:05 ◼ ► right like they talk about having the phones that are three years old run okay and they
00:21:15 ◼ ► really great like face ID is faster and apps launch faster and apps are smaller when they
00:21:34 ◼ ► ID scanner to put a character in those poses they've extended Memoji building back to older
00:21:43 ◼ ► devices which means my daughter even though she doesn't have an iPhone 10 or an iPad Pro
00:21:49 ◼ ► she can now build a Memoji and use the stickers if she wants to and that's really cool because
00:21:55 ◼ ► that's a thing that of course a lot of times it happens that we look at a feature and we're
00:22:00 ◼ ► like Apple could totally have rolled that back two versions but they chose not to there's
00:22:04 ◼ ► no technical reason why and here we see Apple doing it and rolling that feature backward
00:22:11 ◼ ► so that devices that couldn't support Memoji now can that's cool and I got exactly what
00:22:16 ◼ ► I wanted which was pre-made Memoji stickers Memoji stickers with all of the faces in there
00:22:24 ◼ ► I'm something I'm a little bit unclear on right now it made it look like they were going
00:22:28 ◼ ► to be in the emoji keyboard and could be used anywhere yeah that's what Tim said is that
00:22:33 ◼ ► is that those poses can be in the emoji keyboard on the website it says that Memoji automatically
00:22:39 ◼ ► becomes sticker packs that live in your keyboard so you can use them in messages mail and third-party
00:22:43 ◼ ► apps I'm not sure what it means I don't know what the details are but I desperately want
00:22:48 ◼ ► emoji with my face right that's what I want now so if they haven't given me that that's
00:22:54 ◼ ► what I want but it looked like it was in the keyboard so I need to see exactly what's going
00:23:05 ◼ ► yeah watch oh boy watch out everyone yes I'm gonna need a new feature where you can upload
00:23:17 ◼ ► about this but I think from a pure like iOS on the iPhone perspective I think those are
00:23:24 ◼ ► the big things yeah right I think so like I said the the the focus on speed and performance
00:23:32 ◼ ► of you know they didn't mention older systems but I think it's there I think that this that
00:23:38 ◼ ► was their message that they wanted to restate again that they have that ability to to try
00:23:45 ◼ ► and get this thing to keep running faster that they haven't given up on that and I thought
00:23:49 ◼ ► that was I thought that was good other things swipe keyboard yep that that was good it's
00:23:57 ◼ ► you know a long time coming but I'm glad they finally you know basically accepted that yes
00:24:11 ◼ ► with the fact that it's not the primary system keyboard and so to have swiping on the primary
00:24:15 ◼ ► system keyboard is great the only thing that I miss is that Gboard has emoji search and
00:24:22 ◼ ► I can't believe they haven't added emoji search I it seems like such an easy thing to have
00:24:44 ◼ ► around is Street View basically but it's stuff that was missing that they're adding so that's
00:24:50 ◼ ► good it looked really good to the animation it did like it has nice fit and finish nice
00:24:55 ◼ ► touch from from Apple's perspective they did just as they had the message about performance
00:25:00 ◼ ► they had the message about privacy they they want to have a privacy message whenever they
00:25:09 ◼ ► share location once you can set that for an app just this one time they give you a report
00:25:15 ◼ ► about background tracking which is interesting because this week there was that New York
00:25:18 ◼ ► Times story about how these apps still wake up in the middle of the night and report your
00:25:22 ◼ ► location so you can you can be aware of what they're doing blocking apps from using Wi-Fi
00:25:28 ◼ ► or Bluetooth to scan around you in order to infer your location I thought that was very
00:25:33 ◼ ► clever and building a 10-day recording buffer for free with your iCloud account of security
00:25:40 ◼ ► cameras so many of those security cameras try to sell you on these you know video storage
00:25:45 ◼ ► things and then you're trusting your video to some random company and this is Apple saying
00:25:54 ◼ ► think bigger than it seems because of somebody who has bought some of these cameras I'm would
00:25:59 ◼ ► be much more comfortable not only I'm already paying Apple for storage so the fact that
00:26:15 ◼ ► it came in the Mac but it covers these other products too it's the find my update where
00:26:20 ◼ ► they're doing thing that's kind of like some of these other tracker devices but the difference
00:26:26 ◼ ► being that they're sending out a little ping saying I exist and other Apple devices see
00:26:50 ◼ ► in a couch cushion and it wasn't on Wi-Fi as long as it had a battery and was pinging at some point
00:27:10 ◼ ► And it's not new idea and we talked about this a few months ago when this rumor happened
00:27:23 ◼ ► whatever is very low but if you can literally have every single Apple device or whatever
00:27:30 ◼ ► eighty five percent that are running the current OS see your thing and report back if they
00:27:39 ◼ ► Alright let's take our first break and we'll thank our friends over at Luna Display for
00:27:44 ◼ ► They are the mic makers of the only hardware solution that will turn your iPad into a wireless
00:27:48 ◼ ► display for your Mac meaning you will have a second display that is super portable with
00:28:08 ◼ ► on my bridge keyboard to interact with the Mac Mini really is just a wonderful solution
00:28:15 ◼ ► So setting up extra screens is a fiddly affair but Luna Display makes it so easy to do you
00:28:19 ◼ ► just plug the dongle into your Mac and you're ready to go everything works over Wi-Fi or
00:28:27 ◼ ► Luna Display is a complete extension for your Mac and the all new liquid video engine brings
00:28:36 ◼ ► Listeners of this show can get an exclusive 10% off at a wonderful discount at Luna Display.
00:28:43 ◼ ► Just go to L-U-N-A-D-I-S-P-L-A-Y.com and enter the promo code upgrade at checkout that is
00:29:24 ◼ ► Here's the thing so we talk about where the leaks come from right they come from images
00:29:40 ◼ ► so big that a leak you plug one leak another leak springs out so minutes before the keynote
00:30:06 ◼ ► they're like oh iPad OS and so it's too bad because that would have been an amazing surprise.
00:30:14 ◼ ► But we saw that just before it got started and Federico and I were both like yeah makes
00:30:18 ◼ ► sense and actually before we get into the details of it I think when Apple's got a shared
00:30:25 ◼ ► app platform right where you're going to be able to write these apps on and they're going
00:30:29 ◼ ► to deploy on iPhone and iPad and Mac now and iPad in many ways is getting closer to the
00:30:36 ◼ ► Mac there comes a point when iPad and iPhone can't really hang together exactly anymore
00:30:43 ◼ ► and there's no point you know you differentiate Mac why don't you differentiate iPad when
00:30:48 ◼ ► they're different and I think where the rubber meets the road here is when you start introducing
00:30:53 ◼ ► these multi-fingered gestures that make sense on a big screen but don't make sense on a
00:31:05 ◼ ► where Apple felt like drag-and-drop wasn't good enough for the iPhone I disagree I think
00:31:08 ◼ ► that you should be able to drag and drop between apps on the iPhone but the more I wonder internally
00:31:13 ◼ ► at Apple if there came a point where somebody was like we need to do these you know you
00:31:18 ◼ ► can do a three finger pinch and and do a copy and a paste they're like oh but you know that
00:31:28 ◼ ► you start to say how many features do we have that we have to say this is on the iPad this
00:31:37 ◼ ► are different from little screens and I when I saw the copy and paste gesture I thought
00:31:46 ◼ ► that's the kind of thing that means you should separate these two yeah so these new gestures
00:32:20 ◼ ► and that feels like one of those things that they may tweak over the summer right where
00:32:23 ◼ ► they turn it out to people and it turns out oh this this interaction doesn't work quite
00:32:27 ◼ ► right and they'll they'll tweak it a little bit it wasn't good to see the present a struggle
00:32:35 ◼ ► it and move it somewhere else I'm not sure that's a better experience I'm just intrigued
00:32:40 ◼ ► right like happening the the text selection stuff I think the jury's out on but the copy
00:32:46 ◼ ► cut copy and paste gestures I think fantastic yeah and and having I've used those text selection
00:32:50 ◼ ► gestures in that like the Kindle app all the time and they actually are incredibly intuitive
00:33:07 ◼ ► it out because this is going to be one of those things where I'm sure they went through
00:33:10 ◼ ► 50 different iterations of it and once you get the feel for it you might say oh yes this
00:33:14 ◼ ► makes perfect sense I'm excited that they're trying something different rather than just
00:33:24 ◼ ► over is banned from baseball Hall of Fame now it's incredible yeah the that was an interesting
00:33:29 ◼ ► idea that that how do you deal with slide overcoming and going which has been a problem
00:33:34 ◼ ► with slide over for a while now and the answer is slide overs like an iPhone it's yeah slow
00:33:40 ◼ ► so so with slide over you can bring up a multitasking view in the slide over or you can just swipe
00:33:47 ◼ ► like using that right it's just like using an iPhone it's like you've got a little iPhone
00:33:58 ◼ ► an iPhone what a genius way to deal with that right isn't that smart right like we have
00:34:09 ◼ ► window on the iPad now as well and like right this is just like now now that apps can exist
00:34:22 ◼ ► just use them all and just swipe between them and I'm so excited about the split view stuff
00:34:28 ◼ ► the multiple spaces you know being able to split an app in half and use it side by side
00:34:32 ◼ ► on each other or take one of those views and put it with something else and then app expose
00:34:36 ◼ ► that actually went further than I thought they would go I didn't think they would commit
00:34:41 ◼ ► to the idea that that an app can run essentially as many windows as you want not just in split
00:34:49 ◼ ► view but in different sets of split views or different windows where you could essentially
00:34:55 ◼ ► have multiple iterations of the app open at once and then because and my thought was well
00:35:33 ◼ ► that they went there because I thought that they were going to keep it simpler than that
00:35:46 ◼ ► like the overall design of widgets the notification center lock screen widgets whatever you call
00:35:51 ◼ ► them these days I can never remember the actual name for them now there there are widgets
00:36:09 ◼ ► smart they tighten up the home screen a little bit but when we all tried to imagine we tried
00:36:18 ◼ ► you gonna do free placement of icons is it gonna be like Android you know Android widgets
00:36:27 ◼ ► widgets on like they're too big in there and so you use the space of the iPad screen and
00:36:33 ◼ ► you basically say if you want to if you want to keep those widgets are great they're actually
00:36:37 ◼ ► incredibly powerful and they're out of sight and you forget that they're there so you can
00:36:47 ◼ ► closer together they're kind of like buddying up they're staying warm huddling together
00:36:50 ◼ ► for warmth and then you have widgets and the time you know that like hanging on the screen
00:36:55 ◼ ► there that's great because that makes those widgets just having them in your face I think
00:37:01 ◼ ► is a is a powerful thing. New Apple pencil tools so there's a palette that's in you know
00:37:10 ◼ ► nice right like there's like a kind of a window that can be moved around but and there's a
00:37:18 ◼ ► you can take a effectively a screenshot you can mark it up but you can also look at let's
00:37:22 ◼ ► say you're on a web page it will capture the entire web page right so you don't have to
00:37:30 ◼ ► like that they're like no just let's have the idea of a whole document or a partial document
00:37:42 ◼ ► there's like an Apple pencil kit effectively I don't remember the exact name of it. That's
00:37:45 ◼ ► a big deal too because that solves the problem of everybody having to try and reinvent the
00:37:50 ◼ ► wheel in terms of pencil input. It will allow more applications to put Apple pencil support
00:37:53 ◼ ► in where they otherwise wouldn't have. Right because they're not going to build it themselves.
00:37:56 ◼ ► Exactly if you're an application that is a note-taking app well that's part of your job
00:38:01 ◼ ► maybe to do it on your own up until now maybe you'd still want to because you can have different
00:38:05 ◼ ► features yeah I think it's called pencil kit G Gannley in the chat is mentioning but now
00:38:12 ◼ ► you can imagine many other types of applications be like it would be nice to have this mode
00:38:16 ◼ ► in well let's just use Apple's tools and it's done which is wonderful. Sidecar so we just
00:38:27 ◼ ► all about the details I wonder how this works I wonder what its limitations are I wonder
00:38:35 ◼ ► it. So what I always say about this is that when something gets Sherlock'd generally Apple
00:38:42 ◼ ► leaves it doesn't always happen didn't happen with Sherlock generally and Watson I guess
00:38:48 ◼ ► was the name of the app that got Sherlock'd ironically the generally what happens is Apple
00:38:53 ◼ ► hits something in the middle and there's stuff at the edges that is not worth Apple doing
00:38:59 ◼ ► and so for a company like Luna display those guys are going to have to find the edges like
00:39:08 ◼ ► what is Apple's thing not do and that's what they're going to need to support also they'll
00:39:14 ◼ ► have support of everything that predates Mac OS Catalina right but I bet they'll find some
00:39:23 ◼ ► things at the edges that these will see right like Apple's thing could be great it could
00:39:27 ◼ ► have some limitations I mean it certainly seemed like the way that they pitched it like
00:39:47 ◼ ► a Mac Mini that's hiding somewhere I'm not sure that's going to work. You're right we'll
00:40:00 ◼ ► in the Mac section like it is considered like on Apple's website as a feature of iPad OS
00:40:08 ◼ ► able to pull a Mac from your iPad or not maybe not and that would actually be ironically
00:40:14 ◼ ► the feature that Luna display did not intend to be big that everybody kind of started getting
00:40:20 ◼ ► excited about which is kicking off a Mac session in an app on your iPad might be a thing that
00:40:30 ◼ ► keyboard I can't believe it's taken them this long to do it. I thought of you for that.
00:40:39 ◼ ► you just want to pack with a little keyboard. Sometimes I'm holding my iPad and I need to
00:40:47 ◼ ► especially on 12/9 but now you could you shrink it down and you can just you could hold it
00:40:51 ◼ ► and you could do the swipe typing with your thumb in the corner I think it's just a nice
00:40:54 ◼ ► thing that you can have and that's wonderful. Custom fonts in the App Store. Yeah that's
00:41:05 ◼ ► so if I have custom font licenses that I've bought on the Mac I can't bring them in they
00:41:10 ◼ ► have to be on the App Store is what it seems like right that's where you get your fonts
00:41:24 ◼ ► the way to deal with this problem. Yeah I'm I'm curious about the details because it what
00:41:50 ◼ ► Mac but you can't install on iOS so my guess is that yes my guess is that for the general
00:42:01 ◼ ► other way to add apps from other sources too that won't be as nice but like because Adobe
00:42:14 ◼ ► twenty fonts they should be able to say hey system here are the fonts and just have them
00:42:41 ◼ ► can't hear me because I was I was way back but I think I was the first person to exclaim
00:42:46 ◼ ► and I made a sound and I started to clap when they mentioned external storage support I
00:42:51 ◼ ► got I got out of the gate faster there honestly never thought I'd see the day. So external
00:43:00 ◼ ► reader. This is all the stuff that got beat up about when the iMac Pro came out and it's
00:43:08 ◼ ► is you know what people and businesses who are supposed to be using these iPad Pros they
00:43:11 ◼ ► got friends with thumb drives colleagues with thumb drives who bring a presentation that
00:43:28 ◼ ► there for the same reason. So this means that the iPad Pro now is as trustworthy more or
00:43:40 ◼ ► you need to share you connect to the server you could have used a third-party app before
00:43:48 ◼ ► but you know this needed to be in the files app and then the USB thing you have you basically
00:43:56 ◼ ► files too so an app like Lightroom you can import directly in. Right another huge thing
00:44:09 ◼ ► problem you're then going to upload all those things to iCloud when you don't want to because
00:44:12 ◼ ► all you really want to do is put them into Lightroom. And I don't know the details matter
00:44:23 ◼ ► I can import these files and actually just import right off I would expect that it should
00:44:28 ◼ ► be able to do what Lightroom can do which is you know a third-party app instead of having
00:44:54 ◼ ► yeah I don't even know that they zip and archives are all in there. Yep you can zip and unzip.
00:45:02 ◼ ► It is like the people. Column view. Yeah column view which I've never I've never liked the
00:45:12 ◼ ► about it too and you know that was Steve Jobs' favorite view. He loved the column view all
00:45:16 ◼ ► the way from Next. So having that quick actions which is a Mac concept that they brought to
00:45:21 ◼ ► iPad OS where you can select an image or whatever and say let's rotate this image or whatever
00:45:27 ◼ ► do something very quickly about it. They're interesting way where they're sort of having
00:45:31 ◼ ► the interfaces parallel them each other which that's pretty cool. So that was essentially
00:45:37 ◼ ► somebody gave the people in charge of the files app on iPad OS finally the time and the authorization
00:45:58 ◼ ► hey you can just load Google Docs in Safari now in desktop mode and it's not just so what
00:46:09 ◼ ► iPad are really bad. The details here matter because a lot of the a lot of times when we
00:46:17 ◼ ► talked about doing a desktop class version of Safari on iPad what we got is people saying
00:46:23 ◼ ► oh well you can't do that because they assume that you have a mouse all of these things
00:46:29 ◼ ► and my answer was always well yeah but Apple's pretty clever they can you know they can know
00:46:36 ◼ ► that you're on an iPad and do things to make it still work and that's what they said. That's
00:46:42 ◼ ► what they said. They are doing things to make stuff that might have not worked right without
00:46:49 ◼ ► a mouse work and that might be you know I'm sure that WebKit there are going to be details
00:47:08 ◼ ► thing but I love this because that was one of my great frustrations on the iPad is that
00:47:13 ◼ ► sometimes you just couldn't use a web page because it was trying to treat it like a baby
00:47:18 ◼ ► browser and also per site settings which I think means that you will be able to per site
00:47:28 ◼ ► that so that you can set those per site. Right. So and there's like a bunch of other little
00:47:33 ◼ ► settings as well. And a download manager so if you want to download a zip file from band
00:47:38 ◼ ► camp of an album you just bought you can save it in files and then you can unzip those files
00:47:42 ◼ ► and then. Mail attachments go there now too. Wow. So mail and Safari both pushed to a downloads
00:47:48 ◼ ► folder which lives in files. Amazing. This iPad OS so this is a brand new operating system
00:48:06 ◼ ► because they now have another operating system to talk about right like whenever they come
00:48:15 ◼ ► year and iPad is one of them. The fact that they have done this must mean that they are
00:48:22 ◼ ► going to continue to push the iPad. The jumps that they have taken this year some of the
00:48:26 ◼ ► steps that they have made are huge and I can only imagine this being a good thing right
00:48:33 ◼ ► for people like me and you. Yeah I honestly one of the things that I hadn't really thought
00:48:40 ◼ ► about before about it being iPad OS is there's nowhere to hide and that's exciting because
00:48:51 ◼ ► what that means is next year what Apple can't do is say another year more great iOS features
00:48:58 ◼ ► here all these features and they're all iPhone features by having iPad OS be its own thing.
00:49:03 ◼ ► iOS is iPhone OS and then iPad. I mean but this is still gets them all it's really interesting.
00:49:09 ◼ ► Well yeah because they move in sync but they're not the same exact iteration but I guess what
00:49:14 ◼ ► I'm saying is next year if they don't if they do this thing where every two years the iPad
00:49:26 ◼ ► an iPhone OS it's going to be way more obvious than it has been before because I think saying
00:49:34 ◼ ► that iPhone OS is its own thing implies it's going to be handled as its own thing and get
00:49:42 ◼ ► their iPad OS on its own not its own time frame because these all come out the same time every year
00:49:50 ◼ ► but with its own set of priorities that you can't it seems to me that it makes it harder
00:49:56 ◼ ► for them to get away with doing an empty update to the iPhone or to the iPad OS. Yeah so it
00:50:03 ◼ ► sounds like as Federico reported there is a mouse support in assisted touch in accessibility.
00:50:12 ◼ ► Wow Steve Trout Smith has found it. It works with a magic trackpad plugged in. Yeah what's
00:50:18 ◼ ► weird is that it seems to not work with Bluetooth which I don't really understand. I am going
00:50:22 ◼ ► to use the absolute loving freak out of this feature Jason when I put it in my stand and
00:50:28 ◼ ► I'm going to be trackpad in it oh my god this is amazing. I'm so excited about this. Yeah
00:50:34 ◼ ► it means that if bridge wants to do a trackpad version of the bridge keyboard they're going
00:50:38 ◼ ► to have to have a little like a USB cable. That's not the worst thing in the world. Yeah
00:50:42 ◼ ► it's not it's not great but it's better than nothing I don't know why they wouldn't support
00:50:47 ◼ ► Bluetooth devices but there it is. This is version one right and but like I desperately wanted this
00:50:52 ◼ ► feature I don't care how I have to have it yeah I really want it because for accessibility for
00:50:58 ◼ ► myself right like it's genuine it's for my posture yeah I really desperately need to be able to use
00:51:05 ◼ ► my iPad in a stand because when I'm sitting at my desk it's not good for me to be looking down so
00:51:10 ◼ ► much and now being able to use a trackpad along with my keyboard that's going to be a huge deal.
00:51:14 ◼ ► Looks like Bluetooth mice work with it but not the magic trackpad over Bluetooth right now that's
00:51:19 ◼ ► weird then again it's a beta - maybe it'll all be there later on or maybe they'll take things out
00:51:23 ◼ ► but but pointing device and we'll see what the details are and if it really feels good or if it
00:51:27 ◼ ► feels weird but if I can use that to do text selection that'll be great. All right so is that
00:51:35 ◼ ► it for iPad OS? You know I'm sure it's not but I feel like that's probably most of the highlights
00:51:42 ◼ ► like there was so much going on on iPad OS I just you know. I'm so excited about this I cannot wait
00:51:51 ◼ ► to try one. Me too I brought an iPad to WWDC boy I hate saying that. Dub dub DC. What's dubbed up
00:51:59 ◼ ► now is the Apple's ordained it. Well it's www.DC.apple. It's dubbed up now I hate it but they wrote it on the wall. Yeah it's true anyway I brought an iPad to San Jose a sacrificial
00:52:12 ◼ ► iPad Pro 10.5 and it's gonna get it and we'll see what happens there but I'm looking forward to it.
00:52:19 ◼ ► Today's episode is also brought to you by Express VPN. Now sometimes I'm not some how cybercrime
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00:54:11 ◼ ► our thanks to Express VPN for their support of this show and relay FM whoo all right Jason Snell
00:54:19 ◼ ► Mac Pro Mac Pro display XDR now can we just give a shout out to friend of the show Colleen Novielli
00:54:29 ◼ ► yes made her her public speaking debut on she was amazing and she made her stage debut today she was
00:54:36 ◼ ► absolutely wonderful she was showing off the pro display XDR one of my favorite honestly one of my
00:54:40 ◼ ► favorite presentations of the whole day because she seemed so excited about it I especially liked
00:54:46 ◼ ► when she started wooing it was brilliant like it was a great it was a great thing but wow okay Mac
00:54:53 ◼ ► Pro this wasn't what I expected on the six colors secret podcast on Friday I made a prediction of I
00:55:00 ◼ ► decided I I hadn't put it anywhere and I thought I had a moment where I thought oh you know I think
00:55:06 ◼ ► I was listening to ATP it's like I know what the next Mac Pro is gonna be I said they're gonna go
00:55:10 ◼ ► back it's gonna be a modern version of the cheese grater Mac because that one worked it you need the
00:55:15 ◼ ► space for slots you need the ventilation it is you know clad in metal and they'll do some new
00:55:25 ◼ ► aluminum stuff with it and whatever but that it's basically a tower so they're just gonna do a tower
00:55:31 ◼ ► with an Apple spin on it and that's exactly what they did in fact it looks more like a box grater
00:55:36 ◼ ► than the old one did holds our little Lodge for my my liking so it's gonna take yeah we'll see it's
00:55:44 ◼ ► gonna take some getting used to it actually reminded me the new TARDIS interior on Doctor
00:55:49 ◼ ► Who has these has these circles with these kind of shapes inside them that are this kind of scalloped
00:55:54 ◼ ► look and it looks a little bit like that so I guess BBC set designers get a time to time for a
00:56:00 ◼ ► Mac Pro for you Jason now we're the first I think first podcast in our in relay and in the wider
00:56:08 ◼ ► expanded universe to talk about the Mac Pro yes so I think we need to address the most important
00:56:13 ◼ ► thing okay Jason is this an ugly computer I think it might be I I think it is I'm gonna leave it to
00:56:25 ◼ ► others to decide but I would say it is kind of a piece of industrial furniture because it's meant
00:56:32 ◼ ► to be used in serious workplace environments I think it looks good but I think it's kind of
00:56:43 ◼ ► brutal yet it brutal is a great word to describe it it is it is harsh on the eyes this one I think
00:56:51 ◼ ► I think it looks better in person and I think you might get used to it but it is it is aggressive
00:56:56 ◼ ► and brutal but let me say why like I don't think it is a particularly good-looking computer but I
00:57:03 ◼ ► actually think that that is a good thing I think Apple very clearly put function of a form with
00:57:09 ◼ ► this device yes for sure and that's why they went back to the cheese grater we wanted because the
00:57:14 ◼ ► they put form over function right and I will tell you I would tell you in my in my discussions with
00:57:21 ◼ ► people at Apple today they don't talk about the trash can that pro they talk about the cheese
00:57:27 ◼ ► grater but they won't talk about the trash can but when they talk about this new one the box
00:57:33 ◼ ► grater whatever we want to call it the new Mac Pro what they talk about all the time is overhead
00:57:38 ◼ ► how much overhead they built into this and if you recall the reason that the trash can Mac Pro died
00:57:45 ◼ ► is because it turned out it was not built with any overhead and they couldn't put faster hotter
00:57:52 ◼ ► things in it because they couldn't cool them and this one by going back to this other design they've
00:57:59 ◼ ► got two different it's three fans in a blower two different isolated thermal I'm worried if you get
00:58:05 ◼ ► too close to this thing it will pull you through to the other side no so so it no they say that at
00:58:11 ◼ ► sort of standard use it's quieter than the iMac Pro this is three very large fans in the front so
00:58:19 ◼ ► they're you know they don't have to rotate quite as fast and one of the things they've done is
00:58:23 ◼ ► they've built this this ventilation path and if you look at the the cards these modules these
00:58:31 ◼ ► MPX modules this is the graphics card system that well so so all of these modules so so whether you
00:58:38 ◼ ► look at if you look at the the processor if you look at the graphics card module if you look at
00:58:44 ◼ ► that video encoding module off the bone and then there are others like promise is announcing like
00:58:50 ◼ ► a raid that you can stick in it with like four spinning discs and there's also a two disc thing
00:58:55 ◼ ► that you can stick in that but the design that they've got in common in addition to like the
00:58:59 ◼ ► black you know metal and all that is what Apple wants people to do is build these cards with huge
00:59:05 ◼ ► heat sinks and and then use the ventilation of the chamber of the Mac Pro to do the blowing because
00:59:14 ◼ ► what they don't want is eight fans inside of it blowing on their individual cards so the what the
00:59:20 ◼ ► stuff that Apple has designed those cards don't have fans they have huge heat sinks and then the
00:59:25 ◼ ► Mac Pro has the fans and the Mac Pro does the the blowing through the case and out the back so you
00:59:33 ◼ ► know what they kept telling me is it's about headroom it's about the fact that this thing is
00:59:37 ◼ ► not just built to handle what's currently in there but that it's built to handle way more power than
00:59:44 ◼ ► the stuff that's in there actually needs which the implication is very strong that when new stuff
00:59:51 ◼ ► comes out that has higher you know requirements they will be able to just slide those in and those
00:59:58 ◼ ► will work too so you know they learned clearly they learned the hard lesson of the trashcan Mac
01:00:04 ◼ ► Pro and have gone the other way because it has to be functional they've heard from a lot of angry
01:00:10 ◼ ► pros I think I actually had somebody from Apple make mention of a site that they visited and said
01:00:16 ◼ ► that they were all still on the cheese grater Mac Pros and that's an interesting admission because
01:00:21 ◼ ► that's an admission that the last Mac Pro generation that customer didn't bother buying them
01:00:27 ◼ ► and that's telling so it's why that they have a raid version too right if I could not raid version
01:00:32 ◼ ► a rack version oh yeah yeah and I didn't get any details on that but like it's it's rackable they
01:00:38 ◼ ► there's a variation that you can put on its side and you can slide it in and it can put wheels on
01:00:44 ◼ ► it and well that's what I mean about industrial furniture right like there's something to that
01:00:48 ◼ ► the and the way it's built it's like a it's this it's a stainless steel frame so it's almost like
01:00:56 ◼ ► a piece of Ikea furniture or like a or like its own storage rack or its own equipment rack where
01:01:04 ◼ ► the stainless frame and everything's kind of hanging off of that and then there's this aluminum
01:01:11 ◼ ► shell the way it works is that when it looks like a normal computer there's this little circular
01:01:15 ◼ ► thing on the top and and it's like a handle and you flip it up and turn it and then lift it off
01:01:20 ◼ ► and the whole thing lifts off so instead of a door the whole chassis lifts off and you're left with
01:01:25 ◼ ► this stainless steel frame inside that everything's hanging off of also means that when you pick it up
01:01:29 ◼ ► to move it around you're not picking up like things that are screwed to the top you're actually
01:01:33 ◼ ► picking up the entire frame it's uh yeah it's they look they screwed up the last one yeah and
01:01:41 ◼ ► they know it and when they did that thing two years ago where they said we know we blew it and
01:01:46 ◼ ► we are gonna do a new Mac Pro this is this is them and they formed that whole pro group right
01:01:54 ◼ ► where they're like talking to their customers this is them saying yeah we know we blew it we've
01:02:00 ◼ ► listened and we want to give you everything that you asked for and some stuff that you didn't
01:02:05 ◼ ► expect because we you know we want to build this so we can do an update to it in a year or two years
01:02:10 ◼ ► or three years and have it still work so we don't have to build I mean like they don't want to build
01:02:15 ◼ ► a new Mac Pro chassis for another ten years right they don't want to do that so they built this
01:02:20 ◼ ► thing to handle it I mean a lot of the technical specifications of this machine are but so
01:02:26 ◼ ► discussed on ATP which I'm really we're going to see that tonight and I'm excited to see what Mac Pro Live
01:02:30 ◼ ► it's a podcast about the Mac Pro but there's a bunch of stuff like the amount of ports that this
01:02:37 ◼ ► thing has and can have more of because of expansion you can have up to 12 Thunderbolt ports if you
01:02:42 ◼ ► just keep putting on different IO cards and you can drive six of those new displays and it's
01:02:48 ◼ ► bananas yeah let's talk about that display so Apple's created extreme dynamic range XDR yeah I
01:02:57 ◼ ► saw that in person that was pretty it's pretty wild they have done thing is also complicated to look
01:03:04 ◼ ► at so they did they did a before we get to the the is it is it pretty I think from the front front
01:03:10 ◼ ► it's pretty and if you don't like that lattice then you won't like it from the back because it
01:03:14 ◼ ► has a fan which I know is gonna freak John Syracuse out but they said it that the fan is less than
01:03:20 ◼ ► seven decibels so it's like below room noise so it's basically inaudible okay but it is there but
01:03:27 ◼ ► there is a fan because they're doing so much with it and what and they put us in a room with a couple
01:03:34 ◼ ► of existing displays that are considered sort of like pro level computer displays that are like
01:03:40 ◼ ► ones two thousand and ones like six thousand dollars and then also reference monitor monitors
01:03:46 ◼ ► for Sony professional reference monitors that are in the 20s of thousands of dollars and and
01:03:52 ◼ ► they and these new displays and Apple's message is essentially none of those displays can do
01:03:59 ◼ ► everything that the Apple displays can do but at their pinnacle because like the the Sony displays
01:04:04 ◼ ► although they look as good as the Apple displays if you go off to the side they don't look good
01:04:09 ◼ ► they they they really have to be viewing them front on but the larger point that Apple's trying to
01:04:15 ◼ ► make unusual for them because they usually will say we have the best but they were sort of saying
01:04:19 ◼ ► as well we have the best but also from the front we look like that Sony display that costs twenty
01:04:28 ◼ ► six thousand dollars and ours doesn't cost twenty six thousand dollars so it's not twenty six forty
01:04:34 ◼ ► six thousand so this is this is Apple's this is sort of Apple's pitch here is that this is the
01:04:40 ◼ ► best computer monitor that you can buy better than anything that's out there from Dell or ISO and
01:04:47 ◼ ► it's essentially the same quality you would get in a forty eight thousand dollar Sony monitor
01:04:54 ◼ ► especially since it can maintain that that hundred nits of brightness whereas some of the other
01:05:00 ◼ ► displays they either after a while they auto dim because they can't keep up that the the heat
01:05:07 ◼ ► that's involved or in the case of the ISO monitor it can it can it can't display the range so when
01:05:16 ◼ ► you get when it gets really bright you can see all the blacks lift up and become gray and that
01:05:20 ◼ ► just doesn't happen on this display so on that level it's pretty amazing they've they've
01:05:24 ◼ ► engineered five hundred and seventy six independent LEDs that are doing backlighting they've got all
01:05:30 ◼ ► these different layers it's it's a it's a seven layer burrito of innovation they've got seven
01:05:36 ◼ ► layers that are doing these things with the blue backlights so that they're steering them you know
01:05:41 ◼ ► like it is funny because this is really Apple saying okay we can take this panel how do we make
01:05:46 ◼ ► this panel great and the answer is they take the panel and then they built this huge system behind
01:05:50 ◼ ► the panel which is great I mean if you look at the price it's not cheap but at the same time for what
01:05:55 ◼ ► it is it you know if you it's comparable to what you get in a 40 first off it's comparable to what
01:06:01 ◼ ► you get in a forty thousand dollar reference monitor but I think the other point is that
01:06:04 ◼ ► that ISO display that people are currently buying the cost six thousand dollars and this thing costs
01:06:11 ◼ ► six thousand dollars yeah but you can't really do anything with it with six thousand well it
01:06:16 ◼ ► costs five thousand and then if you want to stand it's another thousand and that's a one of these
01:06:20 ◼ ► amount and it's 400 yeah it's it's 199 for the visa amount I think isn't it 999 for the stand
01:06:26 ◼ ► but then you have to mount it somewhere yes and then there's the nano texture version which is
01:06:31 ◼ ► another thousand which I didn't get to see up close where they're trying to do a matte version
01:06:36 ◼ ► that is just etched glass yeah well this is do I get that on it it's like well yeah right well I
01:06:44 ◼ ► mean if it's an extra thousand dollars is maybe the chance this is like Marco putting a screen
01:06:48 ◼ ► protector on his iPad I did it to the antichloro right oh yes that's why I want it on my I said
01:06:52 ◼ ► they're no good right because they do that weird rainbow in thing that's right the shimmer or
01:06:56 ◼ ► whatever they called it so it's not cheap but this is their argument is that is that rather
01:07:02 ◼ ► than make they didn't engineer this product to be cheap they and they engineered to be good and then
01:07:08 ◼ ► they're pricing it where actually compared to not only is it cheaper than the $43,000 currently
01:07:16 ◼ ► available Sony monitor or the $48,000 formerly available Sony monitor but if you take that
01:07:22 ◼ ► ISO monitor that's six grand it's way better than that and that's their argument is basically like
01:07:28 ◼ ► you don't need a reference monitor in your video pro space instead by this one by five of these and
01:07:35 ◼ ► put them on people's desks and then instead of having a chain or you have to pass things off
01:07:39 ◼ ► until you get to the reference monitor everybody can just have a reference monitor on their desk
01:07:44 ◼ ► and again will a regular person need this monitor no and the good thing is like if it matters even
01:07:55 ◼ ► if you buy a Mac Pro you can just use another Thunderbolt display for sure right you can and
01:07:59 ◼ ► you can still buy those you can still go with that are the I love that the on the stand it goes into
01:08:05 ◼ ► portrait orientation as well that stand that's done anyone the stand is a bit awkward look in
01:08:13 ◼ ► it's kind of it's at the height that it needs to be because the iMac stand in my opinion and
01:08:19 ◼ ► I know you feel the same because you're a basic guy it's too low I have my iMac sitting up on
01:08:23 ◼ ► this little metal you can adjust it 120 millimeters in height so there's some there's some room to
01:08:30 ◼ ► adjust it up generally is higher up and you can and it is higher up and you can tilt it from 25
01:08:34 ◼ ► degrees to minus 5 so there's some there's 30 degrees of tilt 100 millimeters of height
01:08:38 ◼ ► adjustment it is also that stand is also kind of kind of brutal right it's like a right angle it's
01:08:46 ◼ ► not super curvy or anything but it fits in with the kind of design language they're going for for
01:08:51 ◼ ► this thing and it's meant for you know it's meant for serious business also has to be high enough so
01:08:56 ◼ ► that you can rotate it that's part of the trick of yeah having it be really able is is if it's too
01:09:01 ◼ ► low down you have to I used to have a rotatable monitor like that I think was an NEC monitor and
01:09:07 ◼ ► in order to rotate it you had to slide it up it went up and then you turn it because it couldn't
01:09:13 ◼ ► rotate at its base level which is dumb but that's yeah that is kind of weird right because you just
01:09:19 ◼ ► like turn it and hit the corner of it I do find myself wondering about John Syracuse we'll just
01:09:23 ◼ ► promote ATP live which is which is coming up you know they're recording that in a few hours yeah
01:09:28 ◼ ► you know I can't wait to find this one of those things where John Syracuse it doesn't need a
01:09:32 ◼ ► hundred nits or and doesn't need a million to one HDR ratio or anything like that it's like I just
01:09:38 ◼ ► don't know about I just can't fathom but six grand you can get an Apple monitor for six grand six
01:09:44 ◼ ► grand it does by the way it doesn't have a webcam on it but I think Logitech is announced they've
01:09:50 ◼ ► partnered with Logitech and Logitech's got a thing for it that is a web a 4k webcam that sits on top
01:09:57 ◼ ► and is designed to blend in six grand I would have liked face ID for six grand so I think what they
01:10:03 ◼ ► said was the where the where these things go I don't care there are issues with if you put a
01:10:10 ◼ ► camera in it you're making the bezels bigger and they want them all like next to each other and
01:10:13 ◼ ► they all they said that the six grand I want to count I want I not only do I want a webcam in it
01:10:18 ◼ ► I won't face that yeah and I'll say it's a thousand it's I don't know how many nits it is I haven't you
01:10:22 ◼ ► know my kids my kids had lice when they were a little but since then I don't know how many
01:10:26 ◼ ► nits are in I'll take 900 nits if I can have a if I can't face okay you can't have that though
01:10:31 ◼ ► because the pro customers don't want face ID I I'm with you and they should do that on an iMac but
01:10:36 ◼ ► for this display I am okay with it yeah the next iMac should have it definitely definitely I agree
01:10:43 ◼ ► yeah definitely but I will say that it's a very expensive piece of equipment I would really like
01:10:50 ◼ ► to see a little bit more from it like I really would 32 inches which is cool that's kind of what
01:10:57 ◼ ► kind of stuff that we thought 6k retina 40% larger than the iMac screen 20 million pixels
01:11:03 ◼ ► I I'm excited to see what this thing looks like yeah I'm also a little bit scared the screen is
01:11:10 ◼ ► gorgeous I will tell you I am potentially in the market for an upgrade to my computer I am also
01:11:16 ◼ ► expecting the iMac Pro will get bumped around the same time this comes out which is later in the
01:11:20 ◼ ► year I'm expecting they will they will because the iMac Pro has not been revved yet and it might get
01:11:26 ◼ ► some of the chips that the Mac Pro has it yeah and I think this answers the question to the Mac
01:11:30 ◼ ► Pro starts at 6,000 I was actually surprised they laid out all the pricing here iMac Pro starts at
01:11:36 ◼ ► 6,000 and that to me it seems like they're trying to find a place for the iMac Pro versus the Mac Pro
01:11:46 ◼ ► so iMac Pro at 5 Mac Pro at 6 and you've got this obviously they both go up from there the advantage
01:11:54 ◼ ► of the iMac Pro is it's all-in-one it's great screen it's got that power most people don't need
01:11:59 ◼ ► a Mac Pro right like they didn't design this to be the Mac Mini they designed it to be if I ever
01:12:08 ◼ ► want to have 1,000 people on a podcast I can do that in logic yes you can that'll sound great
01:12:13 ◼ ► I'm sure there's cross talk on that wow wow wow all right we should talk about Mac OS Catalina
01:12:19 ◼ ► before we wrap up today but before we do let me thank our final sponsor of this week's episode
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01:13:53 ◼ ► your next website we did not get this name MacOS Catalina we did not get that Catalina they have
01:13:59 ◼ ► left the desert behind that's fine because otherwise it would have been Death Valley and
01:14:03 ◼ ► also marzipan moment of silence for marzipan pour one out it is now catalyst catalyst so easy to
01:14:11 ◼ ► remember catalyst Catalina Catalina I like catalyst catalyst to change yes yes I mean they're sending
01:14:19 ◼ ► messages also who I don't like marzipan I don't like marzipan I like a name yes this is a better
01:14:25 ◼ ► name I'm glad that it's not just I mean the way they phrase is like well we call it internally
01:14:30 ◼ ► you know project catalyst but we've got a different name it gives us something to call it other than
01:14:37 ◼ ► marzipan or you know UI kit Mac or whatever let's come back to catalyst yes Catalina we'll start on
01:14:45 ◼ ► Catalina we'll start in Catalina I love the way they got rid of the iTunes thing where they were
01:14:51 ◼ ► making fun of iTunes this is back to Craig Federighi as the guy who can skewer Apple in a calendar and
01:14:56 ◼ ► then we need a doc we can put a doc in there that allows him to make the joke without saying you know
01:15:02 ◼ ► we stuff too much stuff in in iTunes he doesn't he never he never said that because he didn't need
01:15:07 ◼ ► to instead he made a joke about how yeah there's a lot of stuff in there and now there's not music
01:15:12 ◼ ► podcasts Apple TV that's it and well and finder finder gets the iPhone it's like a drive now I
01:15:20 ◼ ► guess yeah I wouldn't have expected that the only thing that the question I've got is about like
01:15:25 ◼ ► file transfer stuff and if that if that's in there too what about local music libraries is it in the
01:15:31 ◼ ► music app I felt like I wasn't completely sure about that yeah I'm unclear on the details I
01:15:37 ◼ ► assume so but I don't see if I can try and find that out while we're still talking today but yeah
01:15:42 ◼ ► I mean it makes perfect sense to have these applications right they are what they are oh
01:15:47 ◼ ► can we just talk a minute about that voice control feature that they showed off that was also for the
01:15:53 ◼ ► iPhone that video they did was was unbelievable this is the ability to be able to control Apple
01:15:58 ◼ ► devices just by using voice and you and you can have this system put up all these numbers on the
01:16:03 ◼ ► screen which is where you would want the tabs you know we don't we don't need to sit here and like
01:16:10 ◼ ► applaud Apple for everything that they do but I look at something like that and I see the amount
01:16:17 ◼ ► of work that it must have taken for the amount of people that will actually use that feature they
01:16:22 ◼ ► don't need to do this stuff they don't need to do that but they do it yep because there are companies
01:16:28 ◼ ► that make products right that can help you with this type of stuff so there are options that are
01:16:33 ◼ ► available for people who are unable to interact with devices to be able to use their voice to do
01:16:38 ◼ ► it instead like my understanding right like there are things that you can use but this this really
01:16:45 ◼ ► it was a very touching video and it blew me away because it was such a clever system and you know
01:16:53 ◼ ► these things it's just like the amount of time and effort and money that was put into creating that
01:16:58 ◼ ► system for the amount of people that will actually use it but the effect that it will have on those
01:17:02 ◼ ► people's lives exactly worth it and it's unbelievable also as we have said time again I saw Steven a
01:17:08 ◼ ► keynote who writes about these issues he was at the keynote not only is it important for tech
01:17:15 ◼ ► companies to think about accessibility but the truth is an accessible product is a better product
01:17:23 ◼ ► for everybody and when we talk about mouse support in an iPad OS or iOS because it turns out according
01:17:29 ◼ ► to Steve Trudn Smith it's on an iPhone too well why not that's an accessibility feature that
01:17:37 ◼ ► benefits us and you could say well yes but you actually need accessibility and that's it there's
01:17:42 ◼ ► a fuzzy line there right where it's like everybody has their own accessibility requirements and and
01:17:47 ◼ ► some of that has to do with accessibility but the a system that's more accessible is more flexible
01:17:54 ◼ ► and so for me I look at that and anybody who's got RSI stuff this is a good thing like you used
01:18:02 ◼ ► to be able so so David Pogue who used to write for Macworld and then went on to whatever the New York
01:18:09 ◼ ► Times whatever was he didn't know he does like something well he had anyone who and now I saw
01:18:14 ◼ ► his byline in the New York Times yeah and so I don't know maybe he's freelancing for them but
01:18:18 ◼ ► anyway David was I was his editor for a while at Macworld when he did the back page column and one
01:18:23 ◼ ► of our editors Shali McFarland also severe RSI and they both use dragon which they had to use a PC for
01:18:30 ◼ ► because the Mac version was never very good and then and then Mac speech dictate came out and then
01:18:34 ◼ ► it got bought by nuance and basically killed and it's one of those things where one of the reasons
01:18:39 ◼ ► you need to go with more than just sort of like this standard dictation is standard dictation has
01:18:45 ◼ ► its limits it doesn't run forever it'll turn itself off and you can't do things like edit
01:18:51 ◼ ► text which means that you can save your hands from writing but the moment you make a mistake
01:18:57 ◼ ► you either have to let it go or you have to stop and pick up your mouse and start to do those things
01:19:02 ◼ ► and what they demoed in that video was editing by voice which is enormous if you're somebody who
01:19:10 ◼ ► actually wants to write at length with your voice because you have to be able to say you know forget
01:19:16 ◼ ► that go back replace that correct this word and yeah it takes a while for your brains to do that
01:19:22 ◼ ► but Shali and and David both did that and I really want to play around with it that so that that could
01:19:29 ◼ ► be huge for people who just don't want to type as much like again like I don't really want to hop on
01:19:35 ◼ ► about it because I'm clearly not in a position where I require severe accessibility needs but I
01:19:43 ◼ ► do struggle with lots of different things and it's all kind of related to posture and RSI stuff and
01:19:48 ◼ ► there are times when I'm having really bad flare-ups where I would prefer to not have to
01:19:55 ◼ ► use my hands where I don't need to to make the money that I need for my living and you know so
01:20:00 ◼ ► if I was able to be able to use my iPad like without touching it that could be a big help to
01:20:07 ◼ ► me at times so I'm really interested to look at what this feature really is all about but more
01:20:13 ◼ ► than anything I'm just happy that they made it I want to provide a follow-up real-time follow-up
01:20:18 ◼ ► from Kate in the chat room from the music app you explore a library of 50 million songs blah blah
01:20:25 ◼ ► blah blah blah or listen to all the music you've collected over the years yeah and there is other
01:20:30 ◼ ► copy on the page talking about the iTunes store still being available so the music app is effectively
01:20:35 ◼ ► all of the music features of iTunes it would seem so what else do we have we already spoke
01:20:44 ◼ ► about sidecar which is the second display yeah for the Mac and then I guess really and we talked
01:20:50 ◼ ► about find my and screen time is coming to the Mac too which is what I really wanted that that's
01:20:55 ◼ ► fantastic yeah that was a draft pick and that's a good one I'm really excited about that because I
01:20:59 ◼ ► don't want to manage my kids devices all of them activation lock is worth mentioning as another
01:21:04 ◼ ► feature where if you've got a t2 Mac you can now do the same thing where it's locked to your Apple ID
01:21:07 ◼ ► and people can't get into it it's great but let's talk about catalyst project catalyst more you cannot
01:21:14 ◼ ► spend as much time on this in the presentation is what I meant catalyst I expected them to spend 30
01:21:20 ◼ ► minutes now maybe in the developer no why then because they had the Swift UI stuff now we're not
01:21:25 ◼ ► going to talk about this because again I think this is a little bit over our pay grade yeah but
01:21:28 ◼ ► the Swift UI stuff that seems like they're moving on to the next generation of things this is much
01:21:34 ◼ ► further down the line and they're trying to sell people on it now to get them this is this is the
01:21:39 ◼ ► carrot for the Swift stick right people can see how useful it would be because now if you use the
01:21:45 ◼ ► Swift UI stuff you can build to the watch independently of its own UI right there was a
01:21:51 ◼ ► lot of stuff going on in here which again I am very interested to hear how it's broken down on
01:21:56 ◼ ► shows that like under the radar and how it's broken on ATP right yeah I want to hear our friends who
01:22:01 ◼ ► are developers talk about that because I don't know although I will say and I'm not alone in
01:22:05 ◼ ► this I talked to a bunch of people who are like computer nerds but not developers when they were
01:22:09 ◼ ► showing the Swift UI stuff which came later and that was when that when it's sort of like they
01:22:15 ◼ ► went to two hours and then they're like all right now we're gonna do 30 minutes of nerdy
01:22:18 ◼ ► developers show some code but I looked at that and thought oh my god maybe I should write not an app
01:22:24 ◼ ► well because it seemed possible right right right because they had a visual building system and it
01:22:31 ◼ ► sweeps away because one of the problems with when you think about building an app is that oh my god
01:22:35 ◼ ► I'm going to need to learn I'm gonna have to go back through a decade of knowledge in order to
01:22:41 ◼ ► get where I need to go and this looks a little more appealing and I realize it was a demo and
01:22:47 ◼ ► a keynote but I think that's really interesting but thing is though yes it was a demo in a keynote
01:22:52 ◼ ► but I'm gonna try it and I wouldn't right yeah but I will open it up and play with it and it's
01:22:58 ◼ ► an extension of Swift playgrounds but it's it you know what they said is it's designed for app
01:23:03 ◼ ► building and this is the other piece of the puzzle there was all that talk of a couple years ago
01:23:08 ◼ ► there was like all the marzipan talk and there was also all this like amber I think stuff where
01:23:12 ◼ ► where like Gruber had this and then German had had marzipan it was like a fight of who was right
01:23:17 ◼ ► but it turned out they were both right it was just different yeah and that's what what's what because
01:23:21 ◼ ► these things seem to work in conflict to each other because they are two different systems to
01:23:27 ◼ ► build applications that can run on multiple platforms yeah but they're like that I think
01:23:32 ◼ ► that's why everything got so confusing and it's why it's so interesting to see it and it's like
01:23:36 ◼ ► you look at the the Swift UI stuff and you're like aha that that is the one app everywhere system
01:23:43 ◼ ► yeah but what we have right now is there's multiple ways and we're gonna allow you to start
01:23:46 ◼ ► pointing them until we can convince you all to use Swift right and then when we're there it's
01:23:51 ◼ ► gonna be one of them and it seems like they are the carrot is really what they're using here which
01:23:56 ◼ ► is it's easier and if you want and if you want watch apps right like if you want apps if native
01:24:02 ◼ ► you I do this is what you got to do you gonna learn it so again with I feel like I'm talking
01:24:06 ◼ ► out of school a little bit but catalyst could have been a half an hour I was so surprised
01:24:11 ◼ ► and how much honestly I think they said we don't even need to evangelize this because every
01:24:16 ◼ ► iOS developer is a Mac user and they they're gonna get it and and the way they handled it I thought
01:24:21 ◼ ► was very clever they said Mojave was version one now we're here time they said they said you've got
01:24:28 ◼ ► a hundred million Mac users waiting for you which is a great way to put it it's just like look you
01:24:32 ◼ ► this opens a new market for you what did they add from Mojave improved sidebar better text
01:24:37 ◼ ► interaction smoother scrolling a single process model which means that if an app crashes it
01:24:42 ◼ ► doesn't take down all the marzipan sorry catalyst apps so it means that it's because before it was
01:24:46 ◼ ► like it's all running as one you like that process and now they're gonna run as their own things
01:24:50 ◼ ► available now they said and then this is the thing and that they did the phrasing was a very
01:24:56 ◼ ► particular they said you check the Mac checkbox and it builds in the fundamental features but and
01:25:02 ◼ ► this is the key bit of language they used the finishing touches are up to you and that's the
01:25:08 ◼ ► way they're saying it is I love that is is you get we will take you all this way and it will work
01:25:14 ◼ ► and then what we want you to do is your due diligence as a developer which is add the finishing
01:25:20 ◼ ► touches add the key the menu bar add the touch bar support add the keyboard shortcuts add all
01:25:26 ◼ ► of this other stuff that makes it a truly good Mac app and then they brought out a couple of developers
01:25:32 ◼ ► the Jira people because what I really like to play so because of the work we have done on our iPad
01:25:36 ◼ ► app like keyboard shortcuts and split view we're ready to go and it's like yeah because what that
01:25:42 ◼ ► means is people that don't support this please power user features on the iPad will want to
01:25:47 ◼ ► support them on the Mac and then the iPad will get them to ya know I thought I thought it was good
01:25:52 ◼ ► for what it was I was surprised it wasn't longer but I think they're coming from a position of
01:25:56 ◼ ► confidence and feeling like they don't know need to make a bigger deal about it than they did and
01:26:01 ◼ ► that they will end in the finishing touches are what it's all about and I'm sure they are spending
01:26:07 ◼ ► a lot of time in sessions throughout this week talking about how you make great Mac apps using
01:26:14 ◼ ► the finishing touches but that's all they needed to talk about on stage I thought I thought that
01:26:20 ◼ ► was pretty good because they they acted very confident about how well this is going to work
01:26:24 ◼ ► and we'll see the details but I think that says a lot that they act there is coming back to the
01:26:32 ◼ ► Mac how hilarious I thought about that a few months ago which is like well I mean this is
01:26:36 ◼ ► obviously the solution it sounds like Apple like called them up and said okay you abandon the Mac
01:26:40 ◼ ► yeah come down and make your iOS app work on the Mac and they said great and we know iOS developers
01:26:46 ◼ ► who've said much the same thing which is of course I'm gonna look at this because I don't want to
01:26:50 ◼ ► make two apps I mean that's that's the bottom line Apple doesn't want to make two apps so what we
01:26:54 ◼ ► don't know although maybe Steve Tranton Smith already knows but what we don't know is like
01:26:58 ◼ ► a hint what apps are it seemed like they were saying reminders and notes I assume so they
01:27:04 ◼ ► brought them up yeah right when they said oh we have these we also have the it looked like maybe
01:27:10 ◼ ► because we were talking about this like reminders and notes could move over they didn't do what I
01:27:13 ◼ ► thought they were gonna do which was to surprise everyone yeah a big one it's like they almost got
01:27:17 ◼ ► there and then they didn't I think that this is it's I'm very excited I will say like I know this
01:27:23 ◼ ► maybe sounds a bit silly but I'm finding myself more and more excited about the Mac again right
01:27:29 ◼ ► because it's it's getting of new software like it's gonna be getting the stuff that I want yeah
01:27:35 ◼ ► again right there are so many iOS apps that I love and one of the reasons I use iOS so much is
01:27:41 ◼ ► because it's got the apps those great Mac doesn't have them but now it might get them and that is
01:27:46 ◼ ► very exciting to me and the app developers at Apple and the third-party app developers will be
01:27:52 ◼ ► so happy to put focus on building a great app instead of building two versions of a pretty good
01:27:56 ◼ ► app and like Twitter is a good example where Twitter is never obviously they never prioritize
01:28:03 ◼ ► their Mac app but they've gotten iPad app so now they've got a Mac app like that's all they had to
01:28:08 ◼ ► do they might make their iPad app better now because they're gonna put it on the Mac almost
01:28:11 ◼ ► certainly they will homes in it or whatever and so I think this is wonderful I am so excited for
01:28:17 ◼ ► the rest of this week now to start seeing people posting tweets I'm sure I think I saw it already
01:28:25 ◼ ► James Thompson's probably already got it running yeah I'm sure he does and that's James is a good
01:28:30 ◼ ► example where it's one it he's one person writing an app that he's written since college but he is
01:28:36 ◼ ► currently developing two versions of it and you know at some point and I don't know if it'll be
01:28:43 ◼ ► this fall but at some point by doing using catalyst James will no longer have to maintain
01:28:51 ◼ ► the shared code but like two different apps he will be able to 784 build one thing he will you
01:28:59 ◼ ► know eventually he will be able to do what he's finally dreamed of which is build a multi-user
01:29:04 ◼ ► racing game inside his calculator and there's no about screen as well because it's using some stuff
01:29:09 ◼ ► that's not supported but like the idea is so your apps will get this this is the thing that's like
01:29:15 ◼ ► well what does it matter for me as a regular user there's a few things one is a lot of great there's
01:29:20 ◼ ► been a lot of great iPad apps that have I want built that was the only miss calzone so my Mac
01:29:26 ◼ ► yeah so so a lot of great Mac apps are longer at iOS apps that have been built that don't run on
01:29:30 ◼ ► the Mac that will now be able to run on the Mac that's one so you'll get calzone sure you get
01:29:34 ◼ ► overcast right the second thing is your apps will theoretically again we need to see what the
01:29:41 ◼ ► limitations are but your apps have a good chance of getting better because these wasted cycles that
01:29:49 ◼ ► your developers have to spend building the iOS version and then the Mac version will now all be
01:29:55 ◼ ► put into one version that will get better faster and James is a good example of that with peak alc
01:30:00 ◼ ► where if James builds peak alc with new features everywhere at once instead of having to build it
01:30:07 ◼ ► twice peak alc gets better faster so even if it's not about like you're getting new apps it's about
01:30:16 ◼ ► your existing apps getting better faster that's the dream of this and now we'll see what the
01:30:21 ◼ ► limitations are because the fear is that somebody's gonna go if you remember when all the iWork apps
01:30:27 ◼ ► got updated to be in sync with a code base from iOS it wasn't it wasn't catalyst back then but it
01:30:34 ◼ ► was still kind of like that they were they wanted to get those things in lockstep yeah there were a
01:30:40 ◼ ► lot of feature regression so that's the one thing to watch here is like are there things that are
01:30:44 ◼ ► going it is somebody who's going to be the first person to step on that landmine of releasing a new
01:30:49 ◼ ► version in the fall that's based on catalyst and their app loses features on the Mac that would
01:30:57 ◼ ► probably be a mistake but it will probably happen someone's gonna do it yeah yeah that's a really
01:31:02 ◼ ► good point so we'll see because nobody's you know those existing Mac apps are going away so I think
01:31:08 ◼ ► James is a responsible developer is a great example James Thompson is not going to regress
01:31:13 ◼ ► pcalc just to put it into catalyst but he is going I would imagine not to speak for James he is going
01:31:22 ◼ ► to try to make it so it doesn't regress and if you listen to these developers and that's what you
01:31:30 ◼ ► know and so I would also say I bet you this is the most important part about this summer and this
01:31:35 ◼ ► beta cycle is Apple hearing from developers about what works and what doesn't with catalyst I think
01:31:41 ◼ ► this cycle has the potential to have the most impact on a Mac OS release in years because
01:31:47 ◼ ► turning these third-party developers loose is going to shake out all sorts of weird things that
01:31:53 ◼ ► hopefully Apple will address and fix in Catalina by the time it ships or maybe shortly thereafter
01:31:58 ◼ ► so that's that's the one caveat here is like I worry about apps that that rush to support this
01:32:04 ◼ ► and end up sort of taking features away from Mac users but I just hope they don't have to because
01:32:09 ◼ ► that's not what this is about this is about making everybody's apps better over time what a day
01:32:16 ◼ ► enormous and we have only scratched the surface fortunately there's another week's worth of
01:32:21 ◼ ► podcasts for everybody to listen to and we'll be back with more but next week I guess we will
01:32:28 ◼ ► probably talk about some stuff we haven't been able to cover yeah I want to talk about Apple
01:32:31 ◼ ► watch and we'll be able to talk about the things that we totally missed this time that is excited
01:32:35 ◼ ► ultimately going to find out about having used these betas which we will be yeah yeah things get
01:32:41 ◼ ► more you know more nitty-gritty then but it is again like when they announced like iOS 7 I was
01:32:48 ◼ ► kind of blown away because the visual changes were so enormous that it was just like just hard
01:32:54 ◼ ► to even comprehend but this it's the it's the litany of like the technical details of all these
01:32:59 ◼ ► things that they're doing and and you might ask yourself why this year were they able to do this
01:33:05 ◼ ► when other years they aren't able to do this and it's sort of like we're kicking it slow and we're
01:33:09 ◼ ► looking at stability and speed of older versions the answer is Apple's been working for this day
01:33:16 ◼ ► for years yeah right that's the truth of it is Apple has see this is the coming catalyst and
01:33:23 ◼ ► Swift UI have been in the works with large teams at Apple for years I suspect we know people who
01:33:32 ◼ ► have been working on them for years and they couldn't tell us and so this is not Apple finally
01:33:40 ◼ ► doing something this is Apple having done something in the background for a long time finally being
01:33:46 ◼ ► able to take the wrapper off of it and show it to us and that happened today but as a result it was
01:33:51 ◼ ► incredibly plus on the hardware side the Mac Pro is the same kind of thing that's a that's a few
01:33:56 ◼ ► years of work a couple years of work at least so and we know the process we know the timeline of
01:34:00 ◼ ► that one yeah yeah pretty pretty clearly so that means today was enormous and that's great it's a
01:34:09 ◼ ► lot to process but Federico and I did a little high-five like you know the advantage of waiting
01:34:17 ◼ ► an extra year and watching iPad features be deferred is when they arrive it is really sweet
01:34:22 ◼ ► and iOS 11 was really sweet and iOS 9 was really sweet and iPad OS 13 is really sweet and I can't
01:34:29 ◼ ► wait to install it on my sacrificial iPad Pro and see what happens so we will be back next week with
01:34:38 ◼ ► more of this you can find show notes for today's episode at relay.fm/upgrade/248 you should keep
01:34:44 ◼ ► your eye on sixcolors.com because I'm sure that Jason will have a lot of interesting things going
01:34:49 ◼ ► on over there Jason is @jsnell on Twitter as well J S N E double L I am @imike I M Y K E thanks to
01:34:56 ◼ ► Squarespace, ExpressVPN and Luna Display for their support of this show if you are still in San Jose
01:35:02 ◼ ► we hope that we'll see you around this week and don't forget that we're gonna be recording
01:35:07 ◼ ► Connected live in front of a wonderful audience at the Hammer Theatre later on this week very
01:35:13 ◼ ► excited about the episode there's a lot of the closer we get to it the more wild it seems like
01:35:17 ◼ ► it's gonna be so I'm very excited I hope that you'll be tuning in to that we'll probably we
01:35:22 ◼ ► will be trying to stream that live and that should be 6 p.m. Pacific and there's my understanding is
01:35:28 ◼ ► the one of Stephen Hackett will be trying to get the episode out yes as soon as he possibly can from
01:35:31 ◼ ► when we're recording when we finish recording so I hope that we see you around for that if not
01:35:35 ◼ ► tuning in live or checking out the episode will be great but Jason Sowell congratulations on your
01:35:41 ◼ ► draft win thank you Myke I think and thanks to the judges for going my way and thanks to cook for not
01:35:47 ◼ ► appearing on stage one more time and we'll be back of a more regular episode next week Snell talk and
01:35:51 ◼ ► ask upgrade will return but today we had to talk send us your questions I think next week may just
01:35:56 ◼ ► be a breakdown of all this stuff all follow-up #askupgrade if you've got questions for us about
01:36:01 ◼ ► stuff that you've seen stuff you haven't seen stuff you want our opinions on for next week's