0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 237. Today's show is brought to you by Luna Display,
0:00:16Squarespace and Green Chef and oh boy do we have a big super special episode for you today. My name
0:00:23is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr Jason Snell. Hello Jason Snell. Hey Myke Hurley, um
0:00:30I think Apple has woken from its um post-Christmas slumber. It's out of the Apple is out of
0:00:38hibernation. Jason we have a huge show today so my hashtag SnellTalk question comes from me and
0:00:45it's to you. What is happening on today's episode? Uh lots of things are happening on today's episode
0:00:51Myke. There's a draft that'll happen later. Because we have an event next week. Next week Monday I will
0:00:57be there, Steve Jobs Theater, uh services, we're doing a draft and because it's a different
0:01:02kind of event we have planned a different kind of draft haven't we? It's going to be the experimental
0:01:08upgrade draft. But what do we have before that? Well I'm glad you asked. Before that we have
0:01:14something fun. We have an interview. We do. Which is not the first time we've done interviews here
0:01:20on the show. We did, I did those interviews um a while ago uh from the Masters of Automation event
0:01:26and we've had a few guests and all that. This is this one's a little different. I got a chance to
0:01:31sit down with Colleen Novielli who you may not have heard of but you probably will again in the future.
0:01:38She is the iMac product manager and we have new iMacs to talk about because after a little bit
0:01:44less than two years the iMacs have gotten refreshed and I got a chance to sit down with
0:01:49Colleen who basically her job is to live, breathe, eat, drink iMac and talk a little bit about her
0:01:58and her background coming to Apple and how that informs what she's doing with these new iMacs and
0:02:06we talk we have some processor specs and stuff in there too. A good conversation with uh with
0:02:12somebody a new voice honestly a new voice from Apple and I love that Apple is doing these podcast
0:02:17interviews now and bringing some of their people out to be seen and heard. I think it's uh I
0:02:23think it's good I think it's good to for everybody to have some perspective about Apple as a company
0:02:28that's made up of lots of people who work really hard on these products and we can criticize them
0:02:33and and we do but I think it is also really great to hear from the people who who this is their
0:02:40career is caring about these products that get released and and Colleen definitely is one of
0:02:45those people. Yeah this is really exciting for us of course and uh yeah we think that you're going
0:02:50to love it too and of course that is also noting something you may not know dear Upgradient that
0:02:55there not only was iPads yesterday there's new iMacs today because we have released this kind of
0:03:04on an embargo from Apple so Jason has details and we're going to talk about those. Right so news
0:03:09news breaking is yes there are new iMacs if you haven't heard that already let us break that news
0:03:16new iMacs after a little less than two years with new processors and there's even some ninth
0:03:22generation Intel processors in there which is kind of interesting and uh yeah so the the Apple's
0:03:29refreshing a lot of product lines Myke this week even just a lot of refreshing going on but I can't
0:03:36even believe this is a follow-up item that we're just like breezing past but uh it is WWDC announced
0:03:44June 3rd to 7th in San Jose uh it is happening I guess we all knew it was gonna happen but that is
0:03:51pretty much all we have to say about it today because we have many many more things to cover
0:03:56and so I guess we should probably just jump straight into the interview Jason do you think
0:04:01that sounds good yeah that sounds great here then dear listeners is that interview okay I'm here
0:04:08with Colleen Novielli who is the iMac product manager you have new iMacs congratulations we do
0:04:14and thank you very much we're very excited thank you for coming on the on the show I wanted to ask
0:04:20so I don't know if we've met before and I don't know if people know you but you are the iMac
0:04:24product manager which is a pretty big responsibility do you have a you have a Mac story have you how
0:04:30how long have you been using Macs I do my Mac story starts in I'll say about 2006 or 7
0:04:37I was working in Philadelphia and I was forced into using a PC as part of of my business and
0:04:45I had always heard about iMacs, Macs in particular, Macbooks and I wanted something portable so I
0:04:54decided that I was going to by myself save my money buy myself one of the white polycarbonate
0:04:59Macbooks I thought it was super exciting and beautiful I actually bought it on craigslist
0:05:05it was one of my first craigslist purchases ever I think craigslist is a pretty new phenomenon at
0:05:10the time and so I met someone in a coffee shop and classic craigslist exactly and we exchanged
0:05:18some cash and I found myself with one of the most beautiful purchases I had ever made in my life and
0:05:22that was my first Macbook that's awesome I you know when I bought my iMac Pro I sold my 5k iMac
0:05:29on craigslist and yes indeed we went to a Starbucks and did you oh I was gonna kid about
0:05:34that you brought a Mac to a Starbucks with cash that's awesome nope it happens it happens and so
0:05:40your you know your background you've been at Apple what five years almost five years how did you how
0:05:45did you come to Apple I came to Apple because in my previous career I have worked in product
0:05:51development research and development and a lot of product development functions and I decided I
0:05:57wanted to go back and get my MBA so I got a master's in marketing specializing in topics like product
0:06:04development and I decided that I wanted to work for the company that I thought had the best product
0:06:10development in the world I saw Apple as the ultimate focusing on the customer and customer
0:06:16experience and then turning that into the best products that exist beautiful in form and also
0:06:24absolutely wonderful wonderfully designed Mac OS and Mac hardware and function and so I set my
0:06:32sights on Apple and I was lucky enough to get an internship with the Mac team all right let's hear
0:06:36it for that I started as an intern too yes that's the great way in it's a great way in yeah that's
0:06:41really hard treat it as an interview and hopefully you get lucky that's right and then hopefully they
0:06:45remember you and they're like I like that intern that's right hopefully they remember you is right
0:06:49yes have lunch with as many people as possible so that they remember your name I didn't know we were
0:06:53going to have intern advice but that's fine we may pivot here to advice for interns that's right
0:06:58all right so you come to Apple yes and I don't know if you know this but the technology industry
0:07:03has a reputation of being kind of a boys club not like it used to be but there are so there are a lot
0:07:10of men on stage at events and the you know there's a perception of that and certainly when I you know
0:07:1620 years ago when I started doing this that was definitely the perception and here you are the
0:07:22iMac product manager and not a member of the boys club that's true this is I mean I don't want to
0:07:28make this something that that is a like a defining issue or something like that but clearly it's
0:07:33something that you've had to think about about being a woman in a increasingly visible role in a
0:07:38technology company that's very visible yes itself yes that's true so first of all Apple is a you
0:07:45know a company that prides itself on having a lot of diversity and there are women at Apple who are
0:07:51great strong leaders and coming to Apple I was able to pretty immediately find some awesome
0:07:57women role models for me at Apple I think that a lot of times when you talk about women in tech
0:08:04you talk about women needing to help other women come along in tech and so then then there'd be
0:08:09more women to me being a woman in tech is all about finding role models and then being a role
0:08:15model I think when you're younger and you're trying to figure out you know what what can I be
0:08:20you look for people who are like you so a really good example I think is that now that a woman has
0:08:26run for president of the United States I think more women or more girls if you were to walk into
0:08:31a classroom tomorrow would raise their hand and say you know if you said do you think you can be
0:08:35president they would say yeah I think I could be and eventually when a woman does become president
0:08:40I think every girl would raise their hand and say you know I think I can be because when you see
0:08:44someone doing something who's like you then you're more apt to say oh well well I could do that and
0:08:50so I think for me I've always looked for women you know oh I can be like that woman not that I
0:08:57couldn't be like a man too but I think there's something to to finding someone who's just like
0:09:01you in a lot of ways and then I strive to be that for other women other girls who you know I want to
0:09:07give them a role model to say I could do that I could be a product manager at Apple and then
0:09:12more women come into the tech industry that way. I think that with my own kids I've definitely seen
0:09:17that that you don't say anything they are so observant and I do think that there's at least
0:09:22in some kids that reluctance where they're like am I allowed to do this am I in this space and
0:09:27as adults you might think well of course yes exactly but if a kid doesn't feel like they
0:09:31are represented then they may just internalize it's not for me it's not I'm not allowed to do
0:09:36that I 100 agree with you yes. So um iMac obviously your life now your job now yes is all about the
0:09:44iMac it is yeah so this is before your time a little bit but I get to do that now having done
0:09:49this for this long I get to do this the iMac when it came out yes was um it was a big deal but it
0:09:55was also a it was a consumer product it was a low-end product it was a product that was very
0:10:02possible very popular with the masses but there were always those snooty Power Mac users who was
0:10:07like you know it's it's for it's fine for some uses and over the years the iMac has really evolved
0:10:13and changed in a lot of different ways it became I think the default Mac I was one of those people
0:10:19who was like well I just buy a Power Mac I was like I don't I buy iMacs I switched to the iMac
0:10:24a long time ago yeah now we live in an era where we have probably more than three quarters of the
0:10:30Macs Apple cells are laptops totally um the we all have iPhones we all have iPads so obviously and
0:10:40you and I were talking before we started we both were going to talk about this which is the role of
0:10:44the iMac because the role of the iMac I guess is always shifting but it keeps shifting so what
0:10:50you know what are the the ecological niches that the iMac fills today what's the role of an iMac in
0:10:562019 I think that that is a great question one that I have spent a lot of time thinking about
0:11:02myself and the teams at Apple you know you mentioned I wasn't at Apple when the iMac was
0:11:08born lucky enough and this is a little known fact but my boss Tom Boger was actually the original
0:11:13iMac product manager and so it's amazing that I get to learn from him some of the things that were
0:11:19important from the original iMac and the iMac throughout its life the iMac has evolved quite
0:11:26drastically since its inception as this approachable computer to get everyone onto the internet
0:11:31throughout its life there were several notable points that I'll point to one thing that happened
0:11:38was the 16 by 9 aspect ratio when it took on this aspect ratio it now became the source of content
0:11:46both creation and consumption for a lot of pros and then I think along the way it also took on
0:11:52the retina 4k and 5k retina displays which are incredible they're incredible for consumers but
0:11:58they're also incredible for pros who are relying on the 4k 5k resolution 218 pixels per inch what
0:12:06we call retina quality to really do their work to see that color and to see that detail that was
0:12:112014 that was a big step forward yes exactly for the iMac exactly retina versions of it and so in
0:12:17this evolution I think it has evolved into a product that really spans the widest breadth
0:12:23of consumer to pro in the Mac lineup you have very very entry-level consumers you have people who are
0:12:30very new to Mac and then at the other end of the spectrum you have some serious pros using this
0:12:34every day as their lifeblood and this is you know what they rely on day in and day out to get their
0:12:38work done right that base model which hasn't changed we should say that base model still
0:12:43is the one that was there before but that is that model exists to point to people who are
0:12:49who don't need a lot in terms of of the highest of high tech but they want to have that computer that
0:12:56they can afford to have that computer that's got it all in one they don't have to hook up a monitor
0:13:01or something like that it's just that and and then it goes up from there to almost now with these new
0:13:05models almost at iMac pro territory so it's covering a lot of ground it is covering a lot
0:13:11of ground yes it's a product that really spans many many customer use cases and the way within
0:13:18both of those product categories so consumer and pro the customers are using the product has also
0:13:23evolved quite significantly as when the first iMac was introduced it was really your central computing
0:13:29unit your central desktop unit now a lot of people as you mentioned are doing their compute
0:13:34in a mobile space right they're having they have iPhones and they have iPads sometimes they have
0:13:38both they have Mac books that they want to take with them in a portable fashion and then they
0:13:44have iMac which has become in a lot of ways to some people a complementary or ecosystem product
0:13:49that they're using alongside of those other devices so the the tables have turned a little
0:13:53bit where it used to be sort of like the home computer was the center and I think the digital
0:13:59hub Steve Jobs unveiled was part of that like and then there was that moment where I said oh it's
0:14:03actually everywhere the iMac is kind of like that too where when when you're talking about in a home
0:14:09now what we think of is this is the device that we park somewhere in the home and that everybody can
0:14:14use when they need a bigger screen or more power or just a different context it's not the only
0:14:21place to go now it's a place for everyone to go when they need it yes that is absolutely correct
0:14:27and I'll talk just a little bit about the different ways that people are using it in the home
0:14:31so I think that everyone is familiar with the home office set up where you have your iMac and you're
0:14:36using your iMac either to run your business from your home or really that kind of central
0:14:40productivity device for your family you're probably doing Safari you're looking for news
0:14:46you're looking and checking your email at the same time you're looking at your family calendar
0:14:50and you're multitasking between a lot of consumer productivity applications and then it has evolved
0:14:57in this way that I think is really beautiful for the family and that is as a shared desktop space
0:15:04and sometimes that space is outside of a home office for example in more of a family room where
0:15:08it can be more of a communal kind of more fluid type of product used in conjunction with your
0:15:13other devices. You sit your kid down at the computer do their homework but then in another
0:15:18context the parents are using it for something and then in a different context maybe you're playing a
0:15:23movie on the on the big screen especially on the 27 inch model and it's a like you said ecosystem
0:15:29earlier I think that's really interesting that it's part of your larger story instead of being
0:15:36just the story it's just part of a bigger story. That's absolutely right one thing that's really
0:15:41benefiting this this types of these types of customer scenarios is continuity and so continuity
0:15:47is an amazingly seamless way to move whatever you're doing from your iOS device to your Mac
0:15:53and vice versa and so I'll just give you a couple examples of how that would be used in a home as a
0:15:58shared desktop. So picture your family and you're all sitting around in your living room and one or
0:16:04more family members may be on their iOS device so they have their iPhone or they have their iPad
0:16:09and maybe someone gets a text message from a friend and it has a link to a website and so they
0:16:14pull it up on their phone and it's great to use websites on the big beautiful phones of our iPhones
0:16:20and iPads but sometimes it would be nice to walk up to a 27 inch iMac and use continuity to pull up
0:16:26that same website and look at it full screen. Look I love my iPad Pro but I definitely have those
0:16:32moments where I say I'm just gonna go to the iPad the iMac now absolutely I just it's the right
0:16:38because it's the right context and if I want to use continuity stuff it will actually my doc will
0:16:43pop up and say here exactly that's what you were looking for right and so in that sense it's really
0:16:47a bigger more it's very beautiful display that you're using and you're able to continue all of
0:16:54the things that you're doing on your other devices but it also has the processing power of a desktop
0:16:59computer and so you're able to do basic things like pull up Safari and messages but then also
0:17:04when you do want to do productivity or even pro tasks you can use that shared desktop in that space
0:17:08as well. All right so we talked about kind of a consumer and family concept and then you mentioned
0:17:14pro there that is the other part of the story with these iMacs it's been the story and now it's even
0:17:19more so that at the top end there's this I cannot tell you how many people I know personally who
0:17:27have said I can't decide between the high-end iMac or the iMac Pro because there is this there's a gap
0:17:34there and there's sort of this question of like do I want the specced up iMac or the base model
0:17:40iMac Pro and I feel like with the with the changes that you're making with these 2019 versions of the
0:17:46iMac that it may be a little bit clearer because some of that gap can go away and so you can it's
0:17:53maybe a little bit more easier to pick your spot in the iMac line now? Yeah I think that the way
0:17:57that you're thinking about it is exactly right we do think of iMac as a family both iMac and iMac Pro
0:18:03and we think that it suits an entire range of customers from your base level consumers like
0:18:07I said before all the way up to your serious pro with an iMac and then iMac Pro takes it to a new
0:18:12level for workstation class performance with the new updates now you're able to go all the way up
0:18:18to an eight core processor with iMac 27 inch iMac and you're also able to configure all the way up
0:18:23to a radium pro Vega graphics option with 48 compute units and we do think that that will
0:18:32serve the needs of many pro customers who want to use the 27 inch iMac and want to configure up to
0:18:38an eight core processor and up to radium pro graphics Vega graphics but we then have iMac Pro
0:18:46and iMac Pro starts with the Xeon processor at eight cores it starts with 32 gigs of memory it
0:18:52starts with a one terabyte SSD you have your four Thunderbolt ports and you have 10 gigabit ethernet
0:18:59and so we think that there's a distinction there for the customers who want to kind of start at
0:19:03that level configure a workstation class workhorse performance iMac and configure up from there
0:19:10right so it makes it makes sense that there are people who might have chosen the base model iMac
0:19:15Pro and you know I think people go through this have gone through this in the last year
0:19:20but now there's a little more space for them to pick their their spot and and not necessarily need
0:19:27to go to the iMac Pro if they don't need to because there's a lot of fundamental power that can get
0:19:31built into those higher end configured order versions of the of the 27 inch the 5k iMac yes
0:19:37I think that there's an iMac now that will fit that whole spectrum of pro needs well we should talk
0:19:42about computer things yes I suppose since we're talking about this the previous iMacs yes were from
0:19:502017 I believe yes that's right June of 2017 all right so it's been not quite two years yep and
0:19:57one of the things that struck me about the new specs yes in these models is that those were
0:20:02sixth generation Intel is that right those were seventh generation generation yes the new ones
0:20:09yes are eighth and in some cases ninth generation that is correct depending on what you buy you may
0:20:16actually leapfrog a generation that's true in these in these systems so tell me um tell me
0:20:22about the the ninth generation Intel you've got these cores I should I I'm getting very excited
0:20:28about cores here we should step back yes okay every 5k iMac has at least six cores that's correct
0:20:34so that's very exciting that's a good line it's a great start and then if you say well that's not
0:20:38enough you have an eight core i9 option that's absolutely correct and that's the ninth generation
0:20:45yes well yes so I'll clarify a bit so on the 27 inch iMac we are going to have across the
0:20:52three base configurations that are available and will be available today we have two eighth
0:20:58generation six core parts on two of the configurations and then on the highest standard
0:21:02configuration we move to ninth generation ninth generation is also our eight core CTO or configure
0:21:09to order part as well and that's the i9 part and Intel just recently in the fall announced their
0:21:16ninth generation of processors and so we are using the two processor parts that were available and
0:21:23were a right fit for the iMac family at the time and then the remaining configurations have the
0:21:29latest eighth generation processors right which is still an improvement some upgrade six cores
0:21:34across the line for the 27 inch iMac awesome performance over the iMacs that were current
0:21:39as of yesterday correct but you did you did take these two so it's in the good better best of the
0:21:445k the best is going to be that ninth generation processor yes ninth generation six core yeah and
0:21:51then you can configure that i9 if you want the bestest of the best above that that's absolutely
0:21:56correct that's pretty cool now on the on the 4k version yes what are you doing there on the 4k
0:22:02version so again we have the 1099 configuration that is not being updated tomorrow the updates
0:22:08are today the updates will be for the 1299 configuration and above so our retina 4k models
0:22:15the 1299 has a quad core processor today it will continue to have a quad core eighth generation
0:22:20processor and then the 1499 base configuration will have a six core eighth generation processor
0:22:27and the configure to order option is also an eighth generation six core i7 so now with hyper
0:22:33threading processor so i like this because one of the things that always struck me um because i do
0:22:38work at an iMac yes every day yes is that is a big screen in my face and i've come to like it i've
0:22:44come to use it but sometimes i think do i need 27 inches and the answer is well no maybe i don't
0:22:51but i i need the power and in the end i bought an iMac pro so of course that was my decision but
0:22:57one of the things that i like in seeing what happened to the 21.5 inch yep is it's it's got
0:23:05more power it's got more capability it is not you know you you can you can configure it up to
0:23:11something that is pretty dramatic in including a vega uh gpu that's right yes um so we don't like
0:23:18to say that the 21.5 inches for consumers and the 27 inches for pros um surely many pros use the 27
0:23:25inch configurations because they want the biggest uh most beautiful um largest profile to work and
0:23:32do all of all of their professional editing um but the 21.5 inch iMac also has a lot of pro customers
0:23:39if you think about it there are many situations where there are space constraints both here in
0:23:43the us but also internationally a lot of times you don't have space constraints in the home or in the
0:23:48business and so we want to provide those customers the opportunity to take advantage of the new
0:23:52processing power and graphics power too i want to talk storage with you okay and this is so okay so
0:23:58the iMac pro got this redesign where it's SSD only and the Mac mini got a redesign where it's SSD
0:24:08only just the flash storage using that space in both models actually for ventilation that's right
0:24:13that hasn't happened on the iMac at least yet so you still have sort of the spinning disk option
0:24:22and the fusion drive option and then the SSD option is that philosophy about making sure
0:24:30you can balance price with with performance because spinning disks i don't you know they're
0:24:36not great they're slow um they're not reliable SSDs are so great but i look at the prices of
0:24:44these iMacs and i think well if you kick out spinning disks they're all going to get way
0:24:48more expensive is that really the the story here about why the iMac needs to have that cover that
0:24:53spectrum uh yeah i think um you know i'll think about it just just a little bit differently um
0:24:58similar to similarly to what you were just saying um when you think about where you really need
0:25:04all flash storage um you really need it in a notebook right you want to keep your notebooks
0:25:08as thin as light as possible um spinning drive technology is probably not something um in 2019
0:25:13that you want to be carting around with you from a mobile perspective and you know from an iMac
0:25:18pro perspective here we're talking about serious pros who are running through terabytes of data
0:25:23in their daily workflow and for them having all flash stories storage is super important
0:25:28when you think about the iMac line we want to provide a range of customer of storage for
0:25:33customers at all different kinds of price points that are affordable to customers and you can pick
0:25:38based on what your workflow is and what you need so the great thing about our fusion drive technology
0:25:43is it partners a super fast SSD which for most customers will keep all the applications and
0:25:49things they do on a regular basis basis there and have that be super snappy performance for them
0:25:54and it also gives them the capacity of an of a hard drive which um and for some SSD you know
0:26:01technologies is not necessarily the the most affordable option and so fusion drive is giving
0:26:06you the best of both worlds it's giving you the SSD and it's also allowing you across the iMac
0:26:11line to have a terabyte or more of storage and up on the 27 inch line we actually give a two terabyte
0:26:16fusion drive as a standard configuration for some of those pros so yeah and I I'm definitely not
0:26:23trying to get you to say well yes this is uh this is our decision I just think it's obvious this is
0:26:28the way Apple's going with all the other products and the iMac can't quite get there yet I would
0:26:32imagine that related to that is the fact that you've updated all these models and they all keep
0:26:37their price points they're not they're they didn't get a price increase or anything like that the
0:26:42slots the old slots for the prices of good better and best are the same right they are so that's I
0:26:51guess that's part of the story too is that ultimately we would all like to spend money
0:26:55on a terabyte flash drive but that I I know what those costs are it's going to make it a much more
0:27:00expensive product and and so that's why we have fusion drive I suppose um I love that we were able
0:27:05to provide processors with six cores and give really awesome performance up performance updates
0:27:11at the same price points across the line and then from a storage perspective we really love the fact
0:27:17that we're able to give such a variety of storage for the really really broad range of customers we
0:27:21talked about at the beginning and then they can choose which right for them so what is the most
0:27:28interesting thing about these new iMacs that we haven't talked about what what what have we not
0:27:33we've talked about chips a lot we've talked about where they live in the in the family is there
0:27:38something else that that you think people should know about these that we haven't talked about yes
0:27:43I think one of the most interesting things is the way that iMacs are a critical part of
0:27:51the design of homes but also businesses large and small throughout the world and the anecdote
0:27:59I'll say there is I like to travel a lot I travel a lot for work and also like to travel in my free
0:28:05time as a hobby and it's probably because I'm the iMac product manager but I notice iMacs everywhere
0:28:12and so within the last year or two I have been to Vietnam and Singapore and Hong Kong I've been to
0:28:20New Zealand I've been to many places in Europe and wherever I go there are iMacs in storefronts in
0:28:26businesses everywhere they're in salons and they're in real estate agencies and they're in fitness
0:28:32studios they're in hotels I saw a few in an airport a few months ago and it really speaks
0:28:39to the way that customers are proud of putting iMac in their space if you think about a small
0:28:45business owner who has spent months designing their new space they've designed the flooring
0:28:49and they've designed the wallpaper or paint and the artwork and the furniture and then it gets
0:28:54down to picking a desktop that they want at their check-in. A big plastic box a lot of cables that'll
0:29:01look great. No that doesn't fit in with the whole design aesthetic right and so they want something
0:29:05they can be really proud of and also helps to elevate that design and you are seeing that
0:29:10everywhere so it's not just in the home it's for businesses of all sizes and I just I really love
0:29:15the fact that all customers that use iMac love them and are so proud of them to display them
0:29:20like that. So how do you find interesting ways that people use iMacs because you've obviously
0:29:26talked about it here a lot different places we said it's not you know it's always changing what
0:29:32it's for and it's got these niches that it's in now where do you get your other than traveling
0:29:38and seeing them everywhere do you are you are you on like social media looking at people who were
0:29:43saying check out my iMac and things like that? I am I am I absolutely am I think someone fed you
0:29:47that question because everyone I work with at Apple knows me as going out to social media all
0:29:52the time and looking at my product and seeing what it's doing and then coming back and and those are
0:29:56the real uses of your product right? That's absolutely right so you know I think historically
0:30:00research of a product has been clearly going into the store and trying to see what customers are
0:30:05asking for there's quantitative and qualitative research that research companies do trying to ask
0:30:09customers how they're using it I think today a really real way to get feedback right away is just
0:30:14to go to social media so I do this all the time for iMac I go to Instagram or Twitter I go to
0:30:21Facebook and I type in hashtag iMac and I usually only pull posts from the last 48 hours between you
0:30:27know when I'm looking 48 hours since and at any given time posts come up from all over the world
0:30:35so Instagram for example there was one day where I pulled posts this was about six months ago before
0:30:41I was I was doing an internal presentation on the iMac and I pulled posts down from New Zealand,
0:30:47Australia, Vietnam, Moscow, two places in Europe and the United States that was all within 48 hours
0:30:55and I took the text that was said on the Instagram post and I translated it because I don't speak all
0:31:01of those languages and they were all saying the same thing in a sense they were saying hey look
0:31:08at my newly designed office hey look at my newly designed family room look I just bought an iMac
0:31:14hey friends look at me in the store making this purchase of an iMac that I'm so proud of
0:31:18there were a couple of parents with their kids next to the iMac you know hugging the iMac box
0:31:24and I'm so proud to get my iMac and to me it's a really special thing I think if you think in
0:31:32generalities how many people are posting about a desktop and how proud that makes them and how
0:31:37it elevates their space I think the iMac is very unique in that sense and it makes me very proud
0:31:42about how much customers love them. Do you pass that on? Is that actionable intel in terms of
0:31:49where you go next with the iMac seeing how people are using your product is that the most important
0:31:56thing to think keep in mind that customer? Definitely I think that being in touch with
0:32:02the customer and their needs and what they're doing is one of the most important things
0:32:06I think product development goes beyond that and I think you know Steve certainly had this vision
0:32:11you don't ask customers what they want you listen to their intrinsic needs what are they saying that
0:32:16they want but what are they not saying that they want what is it they really want to do maybe
0:32:21things that they don't know that they want to do yet but you kind of undercover that intrinsic need
0:32:25that they have and then base your product development off of those types of things.
0:32:28So I guess totally understand that that that it's the faster horse thing right like people
0:32:34didn't say they wanted a car they said they wanted a faster horse yes and so you have to see what
0:32:37their needs are. Surely you see some of these things and you're surprised like wow that is not
0:32:43like I would imagine because people are very clever and they you you make a product and say well here
0:32:48is our product and we think it'll be used this way yeah and I would imagine every now and then you
0:32:52say to yourself oh I had no idea that people were using that product that way. Yeah like when you
0:32:57see a woman picture of a woman using one on a train that's a couple in coffee shops those are
0:33:02the ones that are technically it's an all-in-one it's kind of portable yeah the 27-inch please but
0:33:10that's that's right to me I think one of the more interesting uses now that is popping up is with
0:33:18kids so we all know that students are learning to use iPads and Macs at a very young age they're
0:33:26using them in school they're using them as part of their classroom assignments and then they're using
0:33:31them for their homework assignments and so a lot of kids are coming home and they want to continue
0:33:35to use iOS and Mac OS devices because it's what they're used to from school and so they're using
0:33:40IMAX to do homework and in a shared family space the mom and dad can review their homework monitor
0:33:46their homework it's very easy for them to use and then further to that kids are starting to use pro
0:33:52applications today they're starting to code and to use applications that go along with coding like
0:33:57Xcode they're learning the Swift language and they're using through that everyone can code
0:34:02curriculum so you got your Swift playgrounds on your iPad and you come home and you're like hmm
0:34:06maybe I can build an app now it is I mean that's absolutely right kids are coding and they're using
0:34:11Xcode on the Mac and for IMAX in particular it's a big beautiful screen that they can use to do not
0:34:17only their keynote and pages homework that they have to complete but then they can use Xcode and
0:34:22they can build an app and I think that's awesome. So I'm not going to ask you the question that
0:34:28everybody wants me to ask you which is which is you know about the future because the future is
0:34:33known to nobody especially Apple people speaking publicly but I hope that that there you know will
0:34:41be more iMac and iMac Pro news in the future but this has been a lot of fun I know that a lot of
0:34:49people out there have been anxiously awaiting you know how it works everybody's excited the new iMac
0:34:54comes out and then time passes on and then everybody's like where's the new iMac again
0:34:58yes and here it is and here it is so I'm glad that it's finally here yes and it looks great and I
0:35:04want to thank you for being on the podcast too because I know this is a new thing for you.
0:35:08I want to thank you for having me this has been wonderful. It's been great to talk about this
0:35:12stuff and I'm just going to say it again Colleen Novielli is the iMac product manager thank you so
0:35:18much for being here absolutely thank you so much Jason. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you
0:35:22by Green Chef. Green Chef is a meal delivery service that includes everything that you're
0:35:27going to need to cook delicious gourmet meals that you can feel good about because Green Chef
0:35:32will send you a wide variety of organic ingredients and imaginative new recipes every single week.
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0:36:01from planting to plating and their recipes include pre-made sauces and dressings and spices so you can
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0:36:13Anyone can be a cook with Green Chef's help including Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell what have
0:36:18you been cooking with Green Chef? Uh so my Green Chef stuff I mean we got the vegetarian box which
0:36:24is interesting they have menus for all sorts of different diet types and although I'm not a
0:36:30vegetarian we have various food issues in our house that made that the best choice for us and
0:36:35we got some Japanese vegetable fritters which were let me tell you one great way to to do vegetables
0:36:45is to put some like uh bready stuff on them and fry them. That is the Jason Snell approved vegetable
0:36:52method. Just fry it vegetables well roasting is the right way to do it but if you want to have a
0:36:56special treat those are really good and we also had actually a variation on something that we
0:37:00we make ourselves which is a sweet potato enchilada which is really nice that we do a sweet
0:37:05potato quesadilla and sweet potato as a filling in Mexican stuff is actually pretty great and that had
0:37:11you know corn and um Monterey Jack cheese and that was really good too so yeah it's all good stuff. I
0:37:16want to make that so I'm gonna be stealing those recipes. For $50 off your first box of Green Chef
0:37:24go to greenchef.us/upgrade that is greenchef.us/upgrade for $50 off your first box of Green Chef.
0:37:32Our thanks to Green Chef for their support of this show and Relay FM. Well Myke there is our
0:37:38there's our first surely the first of many um interviews with uh with uh somebody who works at
0:37:44Apple on the products that we talk about all the time. Yeah I'm really excited about this I I think
0:37:49you know there are there must be so many wonderful people at Apple like Colleen who know what they're
0:37:56talking about and have things to say and and I really do hope that this is the start of them
0:38:02doing more and more of this like we have people that want to know about this stuff. Yeah I think
0:38:08it benefits them because it's so easy Apple's so huge it's so easy to think of them as this model
0:38:13monolithic entity and in fact you know it is it's just people who care about their jobs yeah and uh
0:38:19care about the products they make and use the products I the truth is I have never met more
0:38:24committed rabid fans of the Mac than people I know at Apple. Oh I bet. That is yeah yeah yeah
0:38:32that's like nobody cares more about the Mac than the people that work on it right like that just
0:38:37makes sense. Yeah and that's the funny thing is that the world tends to focus on the iPhone
0:38:41and the iPad and maybe the Apple watch and all of that but the fact is the iMac is a big deal
0:38:50like it's it's easy to lose uh kind of like lose the plot about like the scale of Apple it's so
0:38:55it's such a huge company but you know even with desktop only being a fraction of the Mac market
0:39:02the iMac is you know it's probably like billions of dollars of business for Apple to do the iMac
0:39:09it is it is again it's like in those analyst calls where they say this is the size of a fortune 200
0:39:14company this is the size of it's like they say that because we've all lost complete scale about
0:39:19how Apple operates and the iMac like we think of it it's like oh it's a Mac it's a desktop Mac it's
0:39:24like no it's super important as Colleen was saying it fills all of these different ecological niches
0:39:30which I think is the if you think about the history of the iMac it has changed so much from
0:39:36version to version not just physically but like who uses it the definition of what it is it
0:39:40continues to shift but it's undeniably an important product and it is very nice that um at least uh
0:39:47for occasionally it gets its moment in the sun to shine a little bit well all right let me I want
0:39:52to ask you actually I want to see what you think about this who is the iMac for today I've been
0:40:01trying to kind of think about like looking at the current Mac lineup you've got the iMac Pro right
0:40:07at the very top end which is not even going to be at the very top end by the end of this year right
0:40:13because the Mac Pro is going to fill that space so then that's going to bring the iMac you know
0:40:18whatever they do with the iMac Pro we assume it will stay around I mean I reckon it'll stay around
0:40:22because that was the product Apple actually wanted to make right and they were kind of persuaded into
0:40:29all force depending on how you look at it into making the Mac Pro so the iMac Pro I reckon is
0:40:34going to stick around and maybe they will adjust the pricing on it we'll see and then you have all
0:40:40of the laptop line which is the most popular of the Mac line in general anyway that's what most
0:40:45people buy then you have the Mac Mini which is kind of really I feel like between the Mac Mini
0:40:51and the iMac Pro that space has been squeezed and I'm not sure who the iMac is for today so
0:41:00what do you think? Well I mean Colleen delineated in our interview and also like outside the
0:41:07interview there were lots of examples that that she gave to me about different scenarios right
0:41:13it's all about like businesses not just in the back office but in the front office she mentioned
0:41:19you know the last thing you want to do is put a an ugly computer in the middle of your newly
0:41:23redesigned office so you you put an iMac there because it's pretty so it's got it's got that and
0:41:28it's got the the shared home Mac she talked about and kids using it and I think that's a scenario
0:41:34that they see obviously she is scouring social media looking for uses of the iMac including odd
0:41:42oddball uses of the iMac when it's riding on a train somewhere and then the other thing we talked
0:41:46about and it's funny because I was going to ask her and she brought it up too which is the gap the
0:41:50iMac Pro gap and how these new models at the high end it actually it's in a strange way I think it
0:41:58maybe is freeing for the iMac Pro because it's a lot if what you want is a certain level of
0:42:05performance you can get there without going to the iMac Pro with some of the details of the these new
0:42:09processors now you don't get the cooling system of the iMac Pro but you can build a pretty dramatically
0:42:16powerful Pro product now on the on the 27 inch iMac and the fact that the 21 and a half inch iMac
0:42:24now has a six core bill to order like this is this is good like they are they are this is it's
0:42:33I think the way I would put it is it's the flexibility Mac in some ways now it comes with
0:42:37the monitor like the Mac Mini is super flexible but the iMac is kind of in a similar boat the the
0:42:43role of a desktop system these days is to be versatile and fill a lot of little niches because
0:42:49we don't live in an era where everybody has to have their own desktop computer that we don't
0:42:54that's that's a different thing I think it's really telling what she said she used the word
0:42:58ecosystem and if you didn't catch that like that's a person who's in charge of the iMac saying the
0:43:05iMac fills a role in a larger ecosystem it used to be like the computer but now it's part of a
0:43:13larger picture it's it's a device you use in certain contexts and I think that's really
0:43:18interesting are you surprised they didn't do anything to the iMac Pro along with these iMac
0:43:25bumps like you know considering how close now in in processor and in graphics the iMac is at the
0:43:31top end is getting to the iMac Pro to be fair to the bottom end of the iMac i should say yeah to
0:43:36the bottom I think that's part of the thing here is that it when I say it frees the iMac Pro it's
0:43:41like because the iMac Pro starts at 5 000 but it goes you know way higher than that I feel like
0:43:46they you know Apple has shown in the last few years that they don't want to turn over every
0:43:51product every time right like all at once like the Macs get turned over in in pieces and I would
0:43:57imagine there will be a Mac an iMac Pro update at some point maybe it will even come along with
0:44:02the Mac Pro maybe not it probably has something to do with whenever Intel Xeon processor generation
0:44:09they're waiting for but I do think they will do it because like you said it's kind of the original
0:44:15vision of the future of the Mac and as an iMac Pro user and I know Steven feels this way too like
0:44:23it has some very specific advantages the cooling thing is a huge thing touch on that a little bit
0:44:27more actually because that's important when you're thinking about especially some of the power you
0:44:31can put inside of the regular iMac now like why is like the fan and why that's important yeah because
0:44:36if you're a pro user and you are you've built to order the most awesome iMac ever you know it's
0:44:44going to heat up and those fans are going to blow and it's got the iMac ventilation system which is
0:44:48kind of loud and in some jobs it doesn't matter if you're a podcaster like us if you're doing audio
0:44:53or something like that it can be really annoying to have the loud fans and the iMac Pro doesn't do
0:44:58that and you know that is it's designed to for a thermal envelope that's like way up above where
0:45:06the base model and even the first couple of models will will touch on it and so like Steven's example
0:45:12is he bought a regular iMac and the fans blew too much and so he he got rid of it and replaced it
0:45:20with an iMac Pro because it's got that newer cooling system and I still suspect that the iMac
0:45:25is going to that approach but as Colleen pointed out you know we were talking about it I said good
0:45:31better and best for iMacs and and and they you know they don't like Apple doesn't like to talk
0:45:35about good better best but because they're all good they're all best but but there is this truth
0:45:42in that that these are these are computers that are flexible but at the high end you know you're
0:45:48going to be you're going to be pushing it to their limits and that that's just that's this part of it
0:45:53depends on what you want to do with it it's great that it's so powerful but there's still a role I
0:45:58guess I would say for the iMac Pro even now because it it has characteristics that go beyond what the
0:46:06iMac can have but it's still great like not everybody needs that and and that's that's what
0:46:10she pointed out like not everybody really needs an iMac Pro it's a five thousand dollar computer
0:46:14it's a workstation it it's not there are a lot of people who are doing pro level tasks and the iMac
0:46:20has plenty of power to provide now that it's been updated so like this iMac today is thrown
0:46:28a wrinkle in my personal plans because I never felt the requirement for an iMac Pro it's way more
0:46:37than I need from a machine but I was thinking that you know maybe I would get one if the Mac Pro
0:46:46isn't what I wanted so like I'm thinking about like my next computer I'm running a 2015 5k iMac
0:46:52still for my main production machine and I was thinking you know I'm due an update probably
0:46:58over the next year or two just to try and keep keep things a relatively cutting edge you know
0:47:05and I was thinking I'll I'll wait for the Mac Pro and see what that's all about because
0:47:09I do like the idea of maybe buying this Mac Pro and then just making component updates to it over
0:47:16the next 10 or 15 years right like going the real Syracuse or approach assuming that that is a
0:47:21possibility right we we still don't have any real idea what modular means for Apple when it comes to
0:47:27the Mac Pro but I thought if the Mac Pro was too expensive or not what I wanted then my next machine
0:47:33would be an iMac Pro but now looking at the specs in these machines I don't think I need to go to
0:47:39that level I think I could make a relatively like spec out a relatively top of the line iMac and get
0:47:47way more than I need considering I don't feel like I'm pushing my 2015 iMac right so yeah I think I
0:47:55think there's some validity there and I think that is part of what Apple is trying to do is is uh you
0:48:01know the iMac has a tough job it really does the fact that they haven't touched that bottom of the
0:48:05of the line model I mean it's there so that they can have a cheap non-retina iMac it's the same
0:48:13reason the MacBook Air is still there is that there's a price point that they that they want
0:48:17to hit and they want to have a Mac available there and this is this is what it's going to be
0:48:21yep but the fact that it goes from there all the way up you know you've got all those six core
0:48:26processors then you can you can build to order above that and the and with the Vega graphics like
0:48:32it will take you almost as far as you want to go and then you need to get an iMac Pro so it
0:48:38depends on the on the deal like it depending on how you push it it may blow those fans and you
0:48:43may not like that but I don't know the characteristics of these Intel processors they may also
0:48:48be better thermally because they're newer a newer generation or they may run hotter because they are
0:48:54that much faster and that it's all down to kind of the thermal regulation that Apple builds in and I
0:48:59didn't get a chance to you know to walk away with a 27-inch iMac that that didn't that didn't happen
0:49:05I realize now like I probably have a bit of a soft spot for the iMac as I have been using one for 13
0:49:13years yeah see yeah this goes back to the fact that it is kind of the unsung hero that it's it's
0:49:20it's a Mac which is a tiny part of Apple's overall product line and not one of the ones that is
0:49:25generally spotlighted and then even within that it's a desktop Mac so that's even less interesting
0:49:30yep but and yet it is super important and a lot of us I mean I am also an iMac user that is what
0:49:38I sit in front of every day for all my talk about the iPad pro lifestyle and we do have iPads to
0:49:44talk about too but like but the computing device I use the most is probably still my iMac because
0:49:50I am in terms of time that's the same for me too on a daily basis because yeah the most time
0:49:56intensive things that I do are recording and editing podcasts and every time I'm recording
0:50:03and editing I'm sitting in front of my 2015 5k retina iMac exactly and and have been since I
0:50:10bought it in 2015 late 2015 or whenever it was but before that the machine that I was sitting in front
0:50:16of was a previous iMac so I mean I've been using these for like you for pretty much since I started
0:50:25podcasting in general there was a gap where I was using a Mac mini but you know I've been using
0:50:32iMacs with just like a couple of year gap for that since the first Intel iMac which was my first Mac
0:50:39so yep oh yeah well I'm pleased we spent some time looking at the iMac today but that wasn't
0:50:46all there was no we want to talk about so I want to also just extend a thanks to to Colleen
0:50:52um and Apple for for giving us uh that time today um that's really really wonderful of them to do
0:50:59so thanks for that but I want to talk about two new iPads kind of we have a new iPad Air
0:51:05iPad Air brings its reintroduction back into the product line there wasn't an iPad Air before
0:51:12yesterday in the category of Apple products named Air that we didn't think we'd ever see again
0:51:17yeah I was it took me about half an hour to realize the name yeah right after it was announced
0:51:24like it didn't sink in to me for a while like there wasn't an iPad Air and or that this thing
0:51:31was even called the iPad Air um and it's important that distinction is important we'll get to in a
0:51:37minute but it's also a new iPad mini so this I think the big big news for me is that Apple pencil
0:51:45support is on both of these products um I'm super super surprised to see that the Apple pencil is
0:51:52now supported on the mini but I'm also really pleased to see that too it's it's supported on
0:51:59all iPads now the the it's the first generation and Apple pencil is supported on on all iPads now
0:52:06right first so first generation Apple pencil is on the iPad mini the sixth generation iPad and the
0:52:13iPad Air and then the uh two iPad pros have the second generation pencil yep also um yeah very
0:52:21interesting that uh Apple is bringing the you know Logitech crayon into the fold too because yeah
0:52:28they'll all work with that too which is excellent um yeah this iPad Air so the new iPad Air has a
0:52:3710.5 inch screen and is replacing the pro in the lineup so the 10.5 inch iPad pro is gone but that
0:52:46was actually more expensive right yeah it was a weird outlier and it was more expensive so they
0:52:51got it in a in a cheaper price this is the classic sort of like it's a it's a classic uh size but a
0:52:58little bit uh a little bit larger it's gonna be larger than the standard iPad and more expensive
0:53:04um with a better processor it's got the uh a12 bionic yeah so it's the a12 which is in the in the
0:53:11iPhone 10s so it's not it doesn't have the the fancier uh iPad pro one but it's it's a modern
0:53:18processor so you can get an iPad mini and an iPad Air with the modern Apple processor and uh the
0:53:24screen it's that nice screen yeah it doesn't do ProMotion but that's about I think the only thing
0:53:29that's really knocking it back down off of the because remember that that uh 10.5 iPad Pro was
0:53:35the previous generation it wasn't the styling of the new ones it was just a holdover basically
0:53:40a holdover until they had the iPad Air ready to go yeah the the other thing uh is they they bumped
0:53:46the maximum storage down so this this tops out at 256 the previous iPad Pro uh went up to 512
0:53:55right because again not not pro cut the price and yes of course there's the issue where there's the
0:53:59base price and then there's a you can you can load it up with cellular because it's got the
0:54:04modern fast cellular in it too and storage and then with with a gigantic um price if you want it
0:54:13but uh Jason I priced up uh an iPad mini today just went to see so I if I was going to get one
0:54:19I would probably want to go with cellular the maximum storage which is 256 with if let's just
0:54:27imagine and I would get a pencil and then a smart cover and it was 900 pounds I was like
0:54:32you can go there you really can't go there if you want to um but we'll come back to the iPad mini in
0:54:41a minute but I just found that funny it's like oh you can still get an iPad mini up to nearly a
0:54:45thousand if you really want to go for it um I mentioned that I was super surprised to see that
0:54:52the iPad mini had Apple pencil support I was way more surprised to see that the iPad Air has a smart
0:54:58keyboard yeah so they um seem to have not changed the dimensions of either model which means they
0:55:08have maintained compatibility so the iPad mini fifth generation um now is uh can use iPad mini
0:55:17for stuff yep and the 10 5 iPad pro stuff should work fine because they're literally using the iPad
0:55:28pro smart keyboard for the 10 5 on the iPad Air it is the exact same it's the older smart connector
0:55:33thing it will use those keyboards um I had a thought of like guys we made a lot of these
0:55:38keyboards we need to like well no I can't you say that no one's happier than bridge remember when
0:55:44you and I were like why is bridge making a 10.5 iPad keyboard and um that looks like a better
0:55:52decision now because I think it'll work just fine with the iPad Air um because it's I believe they
0:55:59are they are literally the same size and shape because um all the accessories are compatible
0:56:05with both so that's that's good I say thumbs up to Apple for that because the how many times have we
0:56:10had a product be slightly different and break compatibility with everything but it seems based
0:56:16on the tech specs and everything like these are not going to be that no which is I mean that's
0:56:21brilliant right um I want to read a quote from the uh press release because I just find it to be
0:56:27interesting um that this lineup is offering the best most innovative iPad lineup ever where the
0:56:34customers prioritize portability screen size power or price there's an iPad for everyone
0:56:40that's I mean that is definitely what you can see happening but I find it interesting at the same
0:56:48time that Apple is now kind of at this point willingly introducing more points into the iPad
0:56:56lineup where I think previously it's felt like oh the iPad lineup has just gotten messy but now
0:57:03it's like well what what they've done now is they've clarified the pro stuff a little bit
0:57:09more by removing the 10.5 which was clearly around just to kind of to fill out a price point for a
0:57:15while and reintroduce the old product line they've actually made it mirror the laptops more than they
0:57:21did uh previously so it's back to kind of mirroring the laptops again you've got iPad MacBook iPad Air
0:57:28uh MacBook Air MacBook Pro iPad Pro like it's fully mirroring that lineup again and I am
0:57:35wondering if this is for a reason like iOS 13 is just around the corner we're all hoping for
0:57:44significant iPad changes I'm wondering if one the power that they're putting into all of this line
0:57:50and also the variation of price point and entry level in the line is gonna is saying another
0:57:58signal to what iOS is gonna look like in the fall yeah it's possible I think we we have talked on
0:58:04this show about how parts of Apple's product line are a little bit more in disarray they seem to be
0:58:10headed somewhere but it's still kind of a mess and when the MacBook Air was announced we thought that
0:58:15would bring clarity and then we got it and it did not bring clarity and then contrast that to the
0:58:20iPad which really they have gotten their entire product line together where they've got five
0:58:29relatively new products at these different price points it's all they all offer something different
0:58:36so that you can choose they've got the iPad mini I think it's interesting to view it this way the
0:58:41iPad mini is no longer a product for it used to be a product that was the cheapest product and the
0:58:50smallest product and that was always that argument of like well what's it for and the iPad is the
0:58:55cheapest iPad now like the iPad is for cheap the iPad mini is for small and it costs a little bit
0:59:02more than the iPad and I think that's good too because it's saying like if you want this and
0:59:06clearly people do that you know then you can get it so I love it because it is Apple I think maybe
0:59:15saying something about the maturity of the iPad as a product line and also the fact that they need to
0:59:18be more flexible in what they offer and now they've got five different spots you can land
0:59:24in terms of screen size and features and price for the iPad and it is such a dramatic change from
0:59:33a few years ago when the iPad was also kind of a mess they really like differentiating from pro
0:59:39and not was their big step because it allowed them to sell a cheaper iPad and also the cutting edge
0:59:45iPad and now they've got even beyond that where they're like below the pro we've even got options
0:59:51for you yeah and you know I think this is I think this is a reaction to what we talked about because
0:59:55it takes a long time for them to turn this stuff we talked about a few years ago when the when the
1:00:00iPad sales were going down of like you know what is what can Apple do to make the iPad rebound and
1:00:08more affordable iPad was one they brought the pencil down to all of these and now they've got
1:00:14more options out there and it took a little time but they did get their house in order they're
1:00:19gonna straight up sell a lot of those minis to people that will wait they are and and they're
1:00:25good ecological niches for the mini too including kids but not limited to kids there's a whole bunch
1:00:30of places that people want small iPads and it'll fill that which is thinking about it for myself
1:00:36like I actually want to go and try it out I want to see what it's like to use an iPad mini with
1:00:41an Apple pencil because I think that that could be a really interesting device even for someone like me
1:00:47yeah sketches and notes this is this is the thing we talked about about imagining the um
1:00:5110s max uh with a pencil so yeah this is sort of the flip side of that which is well no iPhone with
1:00:58a pencil maybe not but an iPad mini with the pencil now you've got a notepad sketchbook thingy
1:01:03I also want to see how they look next to each other because the pencil and the iPad mini because
1:01:08I think that could look kind of funny like I'll just put the pencil next to a mini very like
1:01:13what's gonna happen there pencil yeah I feel like they could have maybe shrunk down a bit so I think
1:01:18the last thing I wanted to talk about this is this uh the idea of the the previous thinking and the
1:01:24current thinking around the differentiation between iPad pro and non-pro iPad and it's
1:01:30interesting to me to see the keyboard and the pencil come down because it's like all right
1:01:34we've kind of established I mean we'd established already you know the iPad sixth generation had a
1:01:40pencil but now there's a keyboard a smart keyboard in the in the non-pro lineup and it reminds me
1:01:45again of the laptops where you know the MacBook pros get all the new whizbang fancy features but
1:01:51eventually like the uh unibody aluminium design will find its way down and the keyboard will find
1:01:57its way down for for its sins and uh and all that kind of stuff so it's interesting to me to see
1:02:05where we are with the pro now and the non-pro iPads you see right okay design is clearly one
1:02:10of them thinness and lightness and thickness is another is another stuff uh the inductive
1:02:16charging of the pencil is another part of it the four speakers is another part of it like
1:02:21these are promotion motion displays which is the uh 120 refresh rate display um so like the super
1:02:29speedy snappy display is another one face id is now another one exactly so like okay so now looking
1:02:35at where we are with the iPad pro all right we'll imagine in a few years some of those features are
1:02:39going to start finding their way down the product line face id will probably be the big first one
1:02:44because apple i'm sure would love to move that out as fast as they possibly can well basically the
1:02:50the iPad pro you could also compare i know you're compared to the MacBook pro you could also compare
1:02:54to the iPhone 10 right it's the product line for cutting edge tech and that doesn't necessarily
1:03:01mean it will always be defined by these things because the iPad pro is originally defined
1:03:06as smart keyboard and pencil and that's neither of those things are true anymore
1:03:13but iPad pro still has things that differentiate it they've just changed
1:03:16yeah but i i agree with that but i think that like those the iPhone and the iPad pro are inherently
1:03:24positioned for different types of users right like the most fancy iPhone is for everyone but
1:03:30the iPad pro in theory or at least is positioned as all right so you want a work device huh
1:03:36right that's where it starts and in that it's like the MacBook pro you're right i just think
1:03:40that it's interesting that what apple is doing in face id is a great example is like cutting edge
1:03:44tech goes in the most expensive product and yes and like apple proudly announced this week on
1:03:49monday they proudly announced two new iPads with a home button and bigger bezels very touch id and
1:03:56it's okay because you know that's the that's okay it is a it is a cheaper product you're not paying
1:04:04for that stuff maybe you don't like it but you don't you don't have to pay for it if you want
1:04:08a an ipad like this you can get one and you don't have to pay eight or nine hundred dollars to get
1:04:13it all right i want to bridge between where these topics are and the draft by asking you about this
1:04:22what do you think it says about apple's focus on their servitude services narrative for next week
1:04:27that they are just a week away from a press event but they're releasing new products it is
1:04:34the report with mark german that's like no hardware at the event right like this is the point i think
1:04:40that was paksowski who said that first okay yeah well it's good it's like no hardware at the event
1:04:44it's like apple doesn't want first off as i think um given the depths of complicated complicated
1:04:54things we've added to the draft process this year that will be revealed shortly um i think there's
1:05:01a lot already on the table for this services event and services i mean it's a little bit like what i
1:05:07said about the imac it's like this is designed to spotlight the services it's not designed to
1:05:12spotlight whizzy new hardware first off this is not the you know this is a a refresh to these models
1:05:19it's not like a completely new thing you've never seen before but more than that it's like apple
1:05:25doesn't need an event to launch new hardware they've proven that this week again and they
1:05:30want it off the table because they know that some people are going to focus on the new hardware and
1:05:33not pay attention to the services narrative which is really want they what they want to sell is they
1:05:38want to tell their services story and this is off topic for that and it would be a little bit weird
1:05:43if like nbc came out to unveil their new fall lineup and they said but but first let me tell
1:05:48you about this great uh new cable box that comcast is going to offer like no probably not the right
1:05:57way to approach it so i think you know they're clear in the decks they've done this in the past
1:06:01too it's always fascinating when you get those announcements a week before an event because that
1:06:04is the we're throwing these things off stage or maybe they were never going to be on stage in this
1:06:08case i think that's probably true but um yeah yeah it's uh there's too much they've got a full
1:06:14program of what they want to reveal next monday and um a new ipad mini and faster imax was not
1:06:23on the list for next monday and that's nothing saying nothing bad about them it's just not what
1:06:27they're trying to do next week today's episode is also brought to you by our friends over at
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1:08:22of this show and all of relay fm so jason snell there has been much excitement today but there
1:08:28is still much more excitement to come and it starts with as all events do the upgrade draft
1:08:35welcome to the draft everybody so this is because we've got a kind of a peculiar event coming up
1:08:42next week we're going to be doing some experiments with today's draft uh and so we're gonna we're
1:08:49going to be doing a bunch of different types of rounds so we have four regular rounds which you're
1:08:53used to so make a bunch of picks about what we think is going to happen but we're actually going
1:08:57to start with two pickum naming rounds you'll see what i mean in a minute we're going to have two
1:09:02special rounds for this draft with three picks each which is a celebrity appearance round
1:09:08and a trailer round and we're also going to finish off with a tiebreaker question which is something
1:09:13we've been talking about for a while that we would try and do and considering we're in a new year
1:09:17we're going to be implementing some changes to the upgrade draft to help us out in certain situations
1:09:22and it will include the tiebreaker question so mike now mike i got some scoring questions for you
1:09:26here are the individual picks in the special rounds each worth one point or is the special
1:09:31round as a whole worth one point based on who uh picks the most hmm interesting i was thinking just
1:09:38each one each pick is still worth i was thinking that too degraded in that way yeah i think we
1:09:42still go with each each answer is worth it's worth a point especially because we're having
1:09:47less regular picks this time because we we are assuming that the it will be a pretty focused
1:09:54event right and uh i reckon probably and we'll get to this difficult to try and guess this is maybe a
1:10:02little bit more difficult than normal to try and guess what apple's going to be doing um all right
1:10:07so so for this event next uh next monday we're going to do um 12 basically it's 12 total points
1:10:15available plus the tiebreaker which only counts if we get tied so the regular draft rules do still
1:10:23apply though the winner of the previous draft gets first pick and that was me for an item to count it
1:10:28must be either clearly announced on stage or on a slide during the presentation we no longer need
1:10:35adjudication because of a tiebreaker but if we do feel in theory but if there is still some
1:10:40requirement for adjudication if we disagree on a scoring decision if you and i can't we have a
1:10:45gentleman's agreement we have been very good about giving each other points but should something come
1:10:49down to a crucial moment about who wins um we will we will pass the stephen haggart no half points
1:10:56awarded four points only no points awarded for anything previously announced and the points
1:11:02awarded on the episode are final right so we can't pick for example we can't pick anything we
1:11:07already talked about in this episode because that was already announced exactly so none of that will
1:11:13count yes shall we move into our first rounds yeah let's do it let's do it and this is the um
1:11:19i introduced this as we were planning this episode i introduced this concept because i realized
1:11:24sometimes um on our on our drafts we are essentially picking two sides of the same coin
1:11:30and i thought it might be better uh in certain circumstances to just have rather than have a
1:11:37sort of like combine that with an obvious this or that with um other draft strategy about what goes
1:11:45first and what goes second we just break them out and so we have two pick them rounds for this draft
1:11:51um the first of which is what's it going to be called so if i i want to make sure that i'm
1:11:57following here so i'm giving the rules for the up gradients what i pick you can't say it too right
1:12:02yeah it's true you get you get to go first which seems really unfair that you get to go first for
1:12:06each of these i think hmm that's the rules that's the rules that's that's what you win for winning
1:12:12a draft on the pick them round you it's fine we're not going to do a snake a snake draft it's not
1:12:19going to happen go ahead well i would say so so the two pickings that we have is what is the video
1:12:23streaming service going to be called and what are the services bundle be going to be called if
1:12:27there's going to be one for both of them um i don't think it is as clear-cut as you might assume first
1:12:34for either of these to be honest i mean the services bundles a bit more tricky but i really
1:12:39went back and forth on what i would think about for the name of the video streaming service because
1:12:44there are i think two obvious answers um which are tv and video so apple tv apple video and so i
1:12:52really went back and forth on this because apple tv makes sense because they have a product and it
1:12:59kind of helps bundle it all up into one but the more i started thinking about this because of the
1:13:06fact that apple is working with so many other companies and we reckon we'll work with more and
1:13:12that may come up during the picks today i'm starting to think they won't call it apple tv
1:13:18because the apple tv still exists so i'm gonna go with following apple music apple video all right
1:13:27i think i think you have uh definitely talked about some of the ways that apple tv is a bad
1:13:33idea um we have talked on the show about how apple has made deals with movie distributors they've
1:13:40bought movies at sundance um so they're going to be like with netflix there's going to be movies on
1:13:45this service yes it's not just tv it's not just tv although it will be on and it's not just on your
1:13:51tv uh device it's on devices although there is a tv app which i think i think there's a case for
1:13:57and a case against apple tv as the name um you know netflix kind of implies movies even though
1:14:04it's primarily a tv service now the flicks you know kind of idea uh so i i have been talking up
1:14:11the name apple tv as the service because it's the simplest and yes it's already a product but it's
1:14:16also that app and i think that app is going to be the cornerstone of it and i see no reason to stop
1:14:20now so i will pick apple tv even though i think you're right there are lots of reasons why it
1:14:24wouldn't be the name and i think it's not i think it would require some kind of vision and um maybe
1:14:30not courage but uh boldness on their part to just say no we're gonna we don't care about the confusion
1:14:36and the fact that our hardware is also called that that's the right name everything is apple tv
1:14:41and we'll go from there so apple tv for me and uh we get one of us will get a point unless they name
1:14:47it something else in which case we will both be sad the field gets a point at that point yes
1:14:52steven hackett gets a point then so what would the services bundle be called now this one this
1:14:59one is just wide open right it is if it if it if the service bundles even exists yeah and if it even
1:15:05has a name i tried to think about this jason i'm like all right what what could they call it it
1:15:10could be like i was thinking like premium but that sounds too close to prime so i was going through
1:15:16i was like okay so what is it what is a bundle right a bundle is is a single payment it's a
1:15:22single thing i'm gonna go with apple one well uh you said it was wide open and yet that is you
1:15:27totally sniped what i was gonna say maybe just call it apple two i don't know we're all like
1:15:37apple two plus i would give you apple roman numeral one oh my that's not i don't want it
1:15:45you can't give it to me i don't want it i don't want to just close it apple a which would just
1:15:49be like beautiful is it one is it i i don't even know right maybe it's just the roman numeral one
1:15:55and then the apple logo that's what they do oh my god yeah you're gonna buy it now huh i i am that
1:16:02was the best one i i i have come up with because i don't really know a name for this either that's
1:16:05why i called it apple prime a lot just because it was like amazon prime but i didn't think that they
1:16:11were actually going to call it that i mean it depends kind of what they're going for if you
1:16:15want it to be a bit playful you could do something like all access or something like that right like
1:16:19you i don't know i feel like that their branding is more likely to be just the two word dealio
1:16:26and then that's that so you gotta pick something yeah apple you gotta pick something so have you
1:16:33jason that's the yeah boy and i don't want it to reflect some other um although there's there is a
1:16:41one service out there too isn't it i'm sure that there are because it's not like an incredibly
1:16:46clever name but the i think the point is that they're just not going to be going after like
1:16:50of amazon right like that's just the one that they can't bar up against i think everybody
1:16:55else is probably fair game for them uh okay i am going to choose um the all apple pass okay
1:17:08which is a terrible name yeah but i don't want to say all access because that's cbs
1:17:12okay ah yes all apple pass all apple past and i'll take pass if it's apple pass i'll take that
1:17:18too but it won't be because it's going to be apple one yeah okay if it is called apple pass
1:17:24you can have the point um thank you because that will be close enough i think yep but it won't be
1:17:29so congratulations on winning the draft mike
1:17:35i will say i'm feeling pretty good about my first two i know that like apple tv
1:17:39sort of makes sense you know i was thinking jason when you were talking about apple tv like
1:17:42do you do you can you see a possibility of a separate app for the video service that ties into
1:17:50tv well i think that's one of the items on our list for drafting purposes okay uh i think it's
1:17:57an interesting question i think where these things that we made lots of assumptions but not all those
1:18:02assumptions will probably be accurate right like apple has this habit of surprising you and so i
1:18:08think we have to re-examine all of those things like i feel very strongly that the tv app is the
1:18:13logical place they have been trying to make the tv app happen for several years now and i think this
1:18:21is part of that this is feeding into that strategy but could they totally throw it away and be like
1:18:25nah it's not the tv app it's its own app they could uh they could so that that's all to play for and
1:18:32all to be drafted yes it's quite literally all to play for as we go into pick number one now as we
1:18:40always say i put together we put together a list of things that we can pick from for our draft
1:18:46and i've and then i take that list and i kind of rank it and uh i'm even struggling i'm really
1:18:53struggling i really struggled with this event um to try and think what is the most likely stuff to
1:18:59occur i think i'm gonna i think this first pick for me seems seems pretty obvious considering what
1:19:06we just spoke about but like i'm gonna pick the existence of a services bundle so there being a
1:19:12services bundle unveiled there is a likelihood that apple will be a strong likelihood that
1:19:18apple would be talking about at least two maybe three services that will all be paid for at this
1:19:25event i would be really surprised if they didn't offer some way of paying for all of it including
1:19:33apple music and maybe some other stuff to in one payment because it's just a bad user experience
1:19:40to have like four or five multiple charges and it's also fiscally irresponsible for apple to
1:19:46to kind of like be making multiple charges to somebody right like you want to make one charge
1:19:52because then your credit card fees are less and all that kind of stuff um a services bundle which
1:19:56bundles up the new services or some old services maybe sprinkle some other things in i think will
1:20:02be part of uh what apple talks about next week i think that is uh smart i agree with you assuming
1:20:11that this event is going to launch a video service and that new service and potentially a video game
1:20:18service that's a lot of services right to go with the ones they've already got which is why we put
1:20:26the services bundle in the pick them round because although there's been no i think definitive
1:20:32reporting on that one it's hard to imagine that apple is going to say this will be i mean they
1:20:38may present it as this will be 999 and this will be 499 and this will be 699 and then have that
1:20:45slide at the end that's like aha but now how much would you pay but now we're going to make it
1:20:50available for the low low price of whatever yeah and it's called all apple pass which is not what
1:20:57it's called yeah and i genuinely think that they will be selling more individually if you want to
1:21:03like if you don't want it and you know it'll be a look maybe a little bit cheaper for you if you
1:21:06just want video and you don't want news and gaming and blah blah blah and blah blah blah
1:21:10but being able to bundle it all together will also mean that more people are more likely to use all
1:21:18of the services you want people to be using right if you're just like well you want video and you
1:21:22want music well now you can also get news as well like that's free now for you right so that that's
1:21:28kind of the incentive um so yeah services bundle yeah i think that's good i'm gonna go uh with one
1:21:35of the other services we talked about and just say um not just that the new service the news thing is
1:21:41going to happen because i think we kind of assume that it will but a little more specifically i want
1:21:45to say that there's going to be that that ios update that they've been beta testing that it
1:21:49will launch with and that they will promise that it will launch soon um i'm i'm not sure i want to
1:21:54say like this week or next or this month because we're almost at the uh end of the month by the
1:22:00time this event happens but um i i want to say that soon in the next few weeks uh with that
1:22:06ios update the new subscription service will launch as a part of that and and put my stake
1:22:11in the ground for that one so i want to we want to make some clarifications here because next few
1:22:15weeks is a bit that's difficult for like the draft well i i want them to say a date i want to say that
1:22:21it will a soonish date for it that they're not going to say it launches this summer that there's
1:22:25a no we know there's an ios update ready to go very soon it's in beta right now um and i'm kind
1:22:30of tying it to that that there's going to be a a the next ios software update is going to get released
1:22:35and it's going to enable this feature and it's going to come soon and that they'll promise a
1:22:39soonish date that basically if this is the new service is coming in ios 13 this fall i lose it
1:22:45should we say by the end of april uh sure like the date that they announce is by yeah they may
1:22:51not say the words by the end of april but something in that time frame yeah yeah so like if they save
1:22:56in the next couple of weeks that's the end of april if they give a date right like that so just
1:22:59so just so we have a stake in the ground right they may say it launches in april in fact and that
1:23:03might that might be the way to do it depends on how confident they're feeling about their service
1:23:07and about ios 12.2 i mean i don't think we spoke about this but like they even updated the apple
1:23:12news app with a new logo yeah in 12.2 so like it's definitely going to be in 12.2 and 12.2 has been
1:23:19in beta for a while unless they've had to hang up with their uh deals and they feel like it's not
1:23:24ready in which case they cannot even announce it if they wanted to so i feel like it's cool
1:23:28enough of a question but it's still my first pick so maybe i guess we should say like there was a
1:23:32mark german report about a bunch of stuff and it even seems like reminiscent of like apple music
1:23:39they're still struggling to get some deals done like they're going up to the last minute
1:23:43but yeah i think they've got the texture deals in place right i think that that that is so they're
1:23:47going to have magazine content and all that but i think they are trying to close deals with
1:23:50you know news sources because they want the new stuff too but with video too though right like
1:23:55they would they would this the report was saying that they were like at the wire with getting some
1:24:00of the video stuff needed that they need but i also kind of expect though jason that at this
1:24:06level at this high level it's probably always like this right probably that you're going right up to
1:24:12the very very end before you end up getting something completely nailed down that would
1:24:17make sense to me that it kind of is always that way and that's why i won't launch on the day
1:24:21either and apple one part of the carrot for apple is making these deals and saying we'll put you on
1:24:25the slide we'll talk about you in our event that kind of thing is is part of the the the inducement
1:24:30to the deals is we're doing this event do you want to be on stage you know we won't we you know not
1:24:36your we'll put your logo on stage or we'll put a screenshot on stage or something like that or
1:24:40they're like well no we want an executive on stage and it's like well we're not going to let you do
1:24:44that right and they have to just keep going backwards and forwards until they get to the
1:24:47end point which i expect happens very frequently that that's how i assume most of this stuff tends
1:24:51to go all right so pick number two kind of leading from that point um i'm gonna say that apple will
1:24:58have content that they did not make available for subscribers to this new service oh interesting
1:25:05so here's my thinking on this they're having the event now and their tv shows i can't imagine
1:25:13many if any already i think they're going to have something you will get this is the catalog
1:25:21you think there's going to be catalog content i've changed my mind on this one like at first i i
1:25:26thought no no they're not going to do that but i think they're going to have some stuff and it may
1:25:29even be like oh we're going to offer like a limited selection from hbo and if you want more sign up
1:25:35for hbo in apple video right like and then they do that kind of amazon prime channels model which is
1:25:42again i'm not picking that right now we maybe pick that right but like that's a good example where
1:25:46there is some older hbo content on amazon prime exactly video yeah so like you can buy this stuff
1:25:52and if you like this stuff you can get more of it but i think that they will have a very thin
1:25:58service when they launch and i also think that this is the video stuff is probable the service
1:26:05i reckon will launch before a lot of apple's content is ready and what are you going to pay for
1:26:10like what are you paying for so i've come around to thinking that there will be there will be some
1:26:17additional content that apple is going to be licensing and this isn't the idea of like oh
1:26:23we're paying sony to buy this tv show and it's made for us this is like stuff you already know
1:26:28about stuff that's existed in the world before that apple will have available to subscribers
1:26:32of apple video i um that's it's risky i think i i see again this is the beauty of draft picks
1:26:40i see your argument i think it's possible it's not it's it's there's this weird middle ground
1:26:47where i don't think they're going to be a big catalog service where the the i don't think it's
1:26:51going to be big but i think you've got it you know if you get like hey we've got sopranos and we've
1:26:56got game of thrones and we've got something else you know obviously not those shows right but like
1:27:01you get my point like they'll get some stuff so they have some thing yeah so they have something
1:27:08something that is not and and just to be clear here we're not talking about the um the channels
1:27:14idea where they're going to offer subscriptions to other video services within the new app like
1:27:19amazon's prime channels we're talking about that they will make stuff available for free
1:27:24if you're a video person of apple video subscriber or a all apple pass subscriber apple pass yeah
1:27:31it is the idea of the potential that they may uh do kind of prime channel stuff which is why
1:27:37it makes me think they might have some free stuff right it's like a lead-in it could be and that
1:27:42could in fact be part of their deal right is is hey showtime we're gonna resell showtime inside
1:27:48here but we want to make some of your older content available or hey cbs all access can you
1:27:56give us the first season of star trek discovery and the good fight and and we'll put those on our
1:28:02service and maybe cut you in a little bit but we'll also we'll be selling hard your service on
1:28:07top of that like if they could cut some deals with that that that will give you season one of star
1:28:12trek but there is more and if you want that the way you get that is doing this right and season
1:28:18one of star trek discovery is a good example of something that is not available in the us on any
1:28:24other streaming service outside the us is a different story but inside the us that would be
1:28:29something like that would be a coup so you know there's there's some possibilities there i like
1:28:34it it's an interesting pick um i'm gonna i'm gonna take the flip side of it which is i'm gonna pick
1:28:38the prime channels thing i think that they're going to have something that they could probably
1:28:42actually make happen immediately or almost immediately in the tv app regardless of whether
1:28:46they've got the service up and running which is this you know it's been reported so it sounds like
1:28:51it's going to happen but who knows which is having a cornerstone of this tv strategy also be bringing
1:28:56other services in that you pay for and all appear in the app now this is a subtle distinction because
1:29:02those services have apps right but the idea here is to integrate it in the tv app more directly
1:29:07that this is you're in the tv app and you can just go showtime and it'll say buy showtime and boom you
1:29:15have added showtime via an apple subscription and it appears in the tv app and it's unified with
1:29:21that interface and that they're going to roll out a bunch of deals with that part of it too so again
1:29:27i think that has been reported but it could not happen at this event and it is a weird thing where
1:29:33it's you know again it's kind of just a making progress over where they are now which is having
1:29:38those things be apps that can show up in the tv app but you know by all accounts it sounds like
1:29:43they want everything to live in the tv app like they really want you to just find showtime or cbs
1:29:49all access or whatever in the tv app and say yes please now and then it's just in there and you
1:29:54don't you don't think about it which is what prime channels does and it's great i do i do cbs all
1:29:59access through prime channels and it's super easy because it means all of their shows are just mixed
1:30:03in with all the amazon prime shows they're all available one app very convenient there is another
1:30:08part of this so it's like yeah of course apple would want that but i wonder if the world has
1:30:12started to change around them a little bit you know where a lot of these companies are now
1:30:17starting to really understand the importance of having their own service you know yeah i i think
1:30:24amazon views itself as a platform for other services and netflix doesn't and amazon has
1:30:29seen that as an advantage and i think it is and i think if you're one of these smaller services if
1:30:34you're cbs all access or acorn you know or brit box being inside the the loving arms of amazon or
1:30:42apple is a good thing because now like you are apple is promoting like because if you go on the
1:30:48amazon prime video app like they're pushing those services like amazon is advertising other people's
1:30:55streaming services and that's that's pretty good right like and if you search for a show you search
1:31:00for star trek discovery on amazon it says yes we have it and when you click it says you have to
1:31:06subscribe to cbs all access to get it in prime channels and then you can have it and that is
1:31:11powerful so i think that if if apple did that same thing where they're like you know we're basically
1:31:16promoting your services inside our service if you're in netflix you're not interested but if
1:31:22you are one of these smaller services yeah i think it's kind of a big deal and i think you want to be
1:31:25there maybe this is why brookbox is launching in the uk could be could be that could be one reason
1:31:32like again it's the the to sell that through amazon and apple for example that's pretty great
1:31:38and again netflix does not seem interested right netflix just wants to be the only service you get
1:31:44and all you need no i think netflix either like you to think it's original right like it is
1:31:49original they like you to think it is right like i think netflix's model is trying to make them hbo
1:31:55as opposed to generic service serving up content that i think that's their overall goal right they
1:32:01and they and they want to have everything you want right like netflix's goal really is that you don't
1:32:05ever need to leave the netflix app other other shows are not relevant just we give you enough
1:32:11content you never need to have anything but netflix that's that's their that's their strategy
1:32:16and you know right now they're the only ones doing that nobody else is is keeping up with them there
1:32:21i think you know we've talked about it other companies may have aspirations but nobody else is
1:32:25netflix right now all right we're halfway through the draft which feels like a perfect time to take
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1:34:10upgrade and relay fm squarespace make your next move make your next website so moving to pick
1:34:17number three okay this one's a little bit boring um but it feels feels pretty inevitable for me
1:34:25the initial launch will be us only of the video service yeah of the video service sorry i should
1:34:30have made that clearer but the video service i believe will will be us only in its initial launch
1:34:36that just feels like the way it's going to go most of apple's services like this have been
1:34:42sometimes there's not too much of a gap but i'm thinking specifically because of any deals they
1:34:49may need to make with other partners that they will just be making sure they've got all of that
1:34:55stuff taken care of because i don't believe any of their own content will be on the service initially
1:35:02they can wait a little bit longer before they need to roll it out to other territories
1:35:07yeah i think i think you're probably right just because that seems to be their default i think the
1:35:12um you know what reports suggest is that they are planning to rapidly follow with other countries
1:35:18but um that you know that that's not the same as launching in like what if they said we're
1:35:25launching in all english-speaking countries or something like that but uh wouldn't that be nice
1:35:29and they're going to own all their own content right so they could do that but you do get the
1:35:33sense that not only is the us their biggest market but that it does provide a test bed and makes it
1:35:38easier than to roll it out elsewhere rather than rolling it out in all these different regions and
1:35:41then having problems and having to fix them in all the regions um and there are local regulations
1:35:47about tv and stuff that that can come into play um so i think that's a it's definitely a boring
1:35:54pick but also probably a pretty good one yeah i will apologize for the boringness of that pick but
1:35:59sometimes sometimes you've just got to go with it in the draft that's draft rules we have other stuff
1:36:04we'll talk about like kind of like the ones we haven't picked uh once we've once we finished
1:36:08with the with the overall picks so but that that is one that i think will happen just because as
1:36:13well like this happens with everything everything is us only first this is just how it is yeah this
1:36:19is it's a meme amongst people that don't live in the us uh us only i cannot tell you how um much
1:36:26laughter i got out of was it the was it apple news finally launched in canada yes and i i just i
1:36:32laughed and again i'm not laughing at canadians i'm laughing ruefully at the fact that canada
1:36:38which is so close to the us in so many ways it has to wait so long for services she has a literal
1:36:47it's geographically close to the united states um but they they uh they have to wait i think part of
1:36:54the issue there was that they wanted to they needed to make it so that they were it was
1:36:57bilingual so they had french sources as well as english um but uh i just feel bad that and that
1:37:04goes i've watched that very carefully because you would think can it would be easy to bring services
1:37:08to canada and yet everybody seems to do it very slowly which is why my only article i ever wrote
1:37:14for the crazy apple rumor site was specifically about how itunes was never ever ever coming to
1:37:19canada because that seems like the lot that the canadians have do you know in in ireland you still
1:37:25can't buy any tv shows in itunes oh boy isn't that wild wow that is that is never bothered no
1:37:33no well anyway when this video service launches in the us it will be rapidly followed by launches in
1:37:39the uk and uh let's say australia and canada will just get really mad this is what happened
1:37:47for me apple music that was kind of the rollout i think it was uk and then u.s australia um next
1:37:52uh okay i'm gonna i'm gonna go with the darn it you picked my pick
1:37:56video game i just pasted into the doc a little early people and that's how he read my mind
1:38:02i'm gonna i'm gonna pick the video game service that is has only been reported as far as i can
1:38:06tell with one report which was in cheddar uh that said in january that apple was working on a service
1:38:11that would basically it's unclear exactly how it works they described it as a netflix for games
1:38:17i'm unclear how it's gonna work but i think that there will be something that they're gonna unveil
1:38:22presumably with a game demo i'm not gonna pick game demo on stage but i feel like
1:38:27i could pick it every time yeah there's always a game demo on stage but i feel like the only
1:38:33reason there'd be a game demo on stage is because they unveiled this service um i'm not sure exactly
1:38:38what form it's going to take whether it's going to be that apps are going to have uh in-app purchase
1:38:43stuff that it gets completely unlocked if you're a member if there are certain games that have a
1:38:48price but if you're a member it's free um if you know some combination of those whether you get
1:38:55like you unlock everything that's in the in-app purchase or if you get like credits every month
1:39:00so that they say you know you pay five dollars for this service or ten dollars for this service
1:39:05but you get twenty dollars in iap credits every month or something like that there there are
1:39:08different ways they could do it um i i'm not saying whether it'll be successful or not but i
1:39:13think that this is in the water that apple is trying to do something that makes basically makes
1:39:18the game experience on ios better and this is an interesting example of a service that's basically
1:39:24leveraging their power in the app store um to i think that i think their feeling is that you know
1:39:31games on ios are kind of scummy because everything is free to play with uh purchases and that this is
1:39:38their next attempt to class it up a little which is basically to create a hierarchy where if you're
1:39:44a paying games fancy person you get all the all the junk gets disappeared and you get a more
1:39:51pristine experience but however the de whatever the details are i'm fascinated to see what they
1:39:55try to do here but i'm going to put um a chip down on that they will do a a game service that is
1:40:03basically giving you free game stuff on ios so let me tell you why i wanted to pick this jason
1:40:10it has only been reported once that chad report is the only time it's ever been rumored yep but
1:40:17in the same idea jumpa kazan's report didn't even talk about the video service right so like i feel
1:40:23like this event has been pretty well kept under wraps and also game developers are pretty used to
1:40:31and the companies that they will probably be going to for this to begin with it used to keeping their
1:40:35mouth shut because they're always on stage right so like there is there is an idea of keeping it
1:40:41under wraps but i have heard from some third parties and i don't know what to make of it yet
1:40:46but i have heard of games that are currently in development being delayed for this yes i've heard
1:40:53two separate cases of this of games being delayed now it could it could be that they don't launch it
1:40:58here and they launch it at ww dc or something like that this would seem like a great place to do it
1:41:02but it's possible that the timing is not is not right and this is actually going to be not
1:41:07not announced at all um although again if i was doing a bundle i would mention we're doing this
1:41:12video game thing and it's going to be great and this is going to roll out in june or whatever
1:41:16however they want to do it and i have wild speculation i know that we love wild speculation
1:41:21on this i love it and i have some speculation nintendo are working on a mobile game of mario kart
1:41:29it's called mario kart world tour i think is the name and they mentioned this a long time ago it
1:41:34was supposed to come out by now it was supposed to be out basically now in march that was the
1:41:40original thing nintendo's previous earnings call and the last earnings call they said it was delayed
1:41:45no reason no time frame but it's delayed i think nintendo will be putting the mario kart game as
1:41:52part of the streaming service right we might see nintendo on stage in fact on on on monday nintendo
1:41:57have been on stage before right so there is precedent for it shigeru miyamoto came on stage
1:42:02to announce a super mario run yeah i always think go but that's pokemon uh the other reason i think
1:42:09this at the time of super mario go super mario go if you remember was a one-time in-app purchase
1:42:13to unlock the rest of the levels you got some for free nintendo were unhappy with the amount of money
1:42:19that they made from that transaction from super mario run yeah they were unhappy with how much how
1:42:23much money they made from super mario run they actually made a lot of money but it wasn't where
1:42:28they consider their games to use they make a lot more money from their games typically right right
1:42:33then there was a report a couple of weeks ago that nintendo are becoming increasingly more difficult
1:42:37to work with because they they kind of work in partnership with with a couple of different uh app
1:42:44development companies there's a company called dina who they're who are their biggest partner
1:42:48and they've worked with some other partners for some other games i think the fire emblem game was
1:42:51made by a different studio the idea is that nintendo are being hesitant they're very hesitant
1:43:00to be bleeding money from their customers so some of the games that they've released have been quite
1:43:05heavy on in-app purchase since the original one and it seems like they are changing course
1:43:10on wanting to include that and that is making the game developers that they're working with unhappy
1:43:14because they can't make as much money so all of this leads to me thinking nintendo would love the
1:43:20opportunity to be in a subscription service model with some more guaranteed revenue that apple will
1:43:26provide them because apple will really want that game in this service if it exists right because
1:43:33mario kart will make people sign up nobody knows what this game looks like by the way like is it a
1:43:39racing game is it like one of those ones where you're just flicking from left to right nobody
1:43:43knows what this game looks like because nintendo have given no details other than the name
1:43:47and that it will probably tie into a future mario kart game or the current one
1:43:52so i think that they would jump at the chance for uh the option to get more money and i expect
1:43:59apple will like to do a lot of this stuff like a lot of companies do be like okay
1:44:03you'll make whatever amount of money it will be but we'll also guarantee it will be at least this
1:44:08much if you don't make that we'll give you it right as a way to kind of sweeten the pot it's
1:44:12a possibility so yeah that is my whole spiel that i was about to give for pick four about why i think
1:44:18the video game service will be unveiled even though there's been nothing on it but i think
1:44:22it's coming and i think and i'm not predicting that nintendo are going to do this i just think
1:44:28there are a lot of things that line up in the stars which suggest it could be possible
1:44:33i love that you talked for three times as long as i did about my pick thank you
1:44:36if it's video games man i'm all about the video games i know pick four i've got another really
1:44:43boring one um because i don't really understand it but it seems like it's going to happen an apple
1:44:49credit card so this is something that's been rumored that apple is partnering with goldman
1:44:55sax and they're going to create a credit card and you will and they're also going to make a bunch of
1:45:00enhancements to apple pay to make this a better experience but i quite frankly cannot fathom what
1:45:07the benefit is to a customer to own this to have this card um i can't work it out but it's been
1:45:14rumored and also there were people from like there's a website called the points guy which is
1:45:19a credit card reward points website you have been invited to this apple event so that's a good sign
1:45:27i don't get it um but there's been a bunch of rumors about it and again it's also referenced
1:45:32in mark gorman's report that like goldman sax are working on it it's called project cookie which is
1:45:36hilarious um but i don't know what the i can't fathom why someone would want this like because
1:45:42i don't know what the benefits are yeah so they'll be they'll be um presumably part of it because
1:45:46this is how all these point credit cards work is purchases at apple or on the apple store or using
1:45:53apple pay will get you more points than regular purchases yeah and that presumably you can use
1:45:59your points you can redeem or dollars or however they want to do it you can redeem that for a
1:46:04percentage discount of you know so if you've got a hundred dollars you can redeem it for 150 in
1:46:10apple credit or something like that right where they will apple will compensate you more highly
1:46:14for stuff that is from apple so you use your money you use the card to buy apple stuff and then you
1:46:21use the rewards from that to buy more apple stuff that's the that's probably how it will work and
1:46:26then of course there's that rumor that they're going to tie this in with software on the devices
1:46:31that will provide sort of like a higher level of data sync uh in terms of you monitoring your
1:46:36purchases and stuff that this would be like a preferred uh card that will do more in your um in
1:46:43your wallet app basically i bet there's going to be some privacy stuff right they're going to be
1:46:48like you know and uh we're going to do excellent i mean like we're not going to sell that you know
1:46:52yeah yeah but like what do you use the points on like apps or credit like where's what are
1:46:57the points get you i don't know buying new iphones whatever you know buy new apple stuff yeah i guess
1:47:03so but yeah this also just feels like company gets to the size like like apples and they're basically
1:47:12you know we spoke about this before like apples moved slowly become a bank um yeah this part of
1:47:17it when you have so much money you start you need to start to be able to control money and this is
1:47:23where apple is in their company's life cycle so making starting to make a credit card you know
1:47:28like and understanding what that looks like it reminds me of like working with motorola to create
1:47:33the rocker right like let's just start and we have a company and we see what this looks like and we
1:47:38understand a little bit more about this business and then maybe down the line we do something more
1:47:43so right super weird one but it feels like a possibility it may not be earth-shattering i
1:47:47mean like everybody's got a everybody's got a credit card a branded credit card yeah everybody
1:47:52so you can get your marvel comics card you can get your major league baseball card you can get your
1:47:57airline card they're all out there um okay so i the last pick by the way it is it is i'm gonna go
1:48:04down pricing um with my last pick and i was thinking about this because i've been talking
1:48:09for a while now about this service and thinking about how they're how they could price it um
1:48:14and thinking out of the gate they're not going to have a lot they've got a smaller collection of
1:48:19originals um and i think that the debate has really been sort of at that ten dollar break
1:48:24point is this a 999 service or is this more than 999 999 sure 799 599 a month whatever it is and
1:48:31then i was thinking about it netflix now costs the base the base right where you don't get 4k
1:48:39get multiple users at once and it's just a base model is 1099 i think maybe 1199 but it's they
1:48:48just raised it hbo go is like 15 a month um and i will point you back to my law of pricing which
1:49:01is that whatever price you think apple's going to price something at um add money to it and then add
1:49:07a percentage to that and that's the actual price of the product and that's why even though i've
1:49:11been thinking this entire time we've been talking about this that this service would launch at a low
1:49:16price i don't think it is i think it's going to be more than ten dollars a month um i will also
1:49:20point out the higher you make the standalone price the better the bundle looks so i think that's part
1:49:27of it too is why not set the price standalone price high because what you really want and it's
1:49:33not high compared to like again compared to netflix even if you match netflix they're not
1:49:37going to have con content on the netflix level but if you look at some of the other streaming
1:49:42services they're all kind of pushing upward from five or six dollars and apple wants to be viewed
1:49:47as a premium product so they're gonna they're gonna charge more because charge more means you're
1:49:51worth more and that's certainly what hbo is thinking so um that's that's i mean who knows
1:49:57what will happen to hbo in the long run because of word media but i think apple will price the
1:50:02standalone video service at more than ten dollars a month for these reasons they want to be seen as
1:50:07premium and it gives them that much more of a savings when you bundle it with music or you
1:50:13bundle it with the or or what or the big bundle or whatever they want to call it so i again i'm not
1:50:18i'm not 100 or even um sort of 70 confident in this but um i was going to pick less than
1:50:25ten dollars and i thought about it and i was like there's no way i can pick that never bet against
1:50:29apple being cheap that's a wonderful rule to live by just live i mean and you'll never be disappointed
1:50:36is the second part of that right because it's sometimes you might be pleasantly surprised that
1:50:40they're cheaper than you thought but um it does save you from a lot of heartache when when you
1:50:45think oh that macbook air is going to be 999 and then it's not and you're like oh yeah well you know
1:50:50it's apple all right so they are the four main draft picks we'll go through a couple of extra
1:50:56ones um as we finish off today but we're going to go into our super weird celebrity round um because
1:51:03of everything that's happening we're assuming apple's going to have some stuff to say about
1:51:06their own original content the assumption that we have going into this event is there will be
1:51:11some celebrities on stage coming out to talk about the stuff that they're making um so what we're
1:51:16going to do is just give the name of the people maybe a little bit of explanation why but it
1:51:19probably isn't required but i'm going to go with my number one pick who feels like the most obvious
1:51:24person to be there for me which is reese witherspoon the reason i picked reese witherspoon not only is
1:51:29she in uh the morning drama tv show thing which has a lot of celebrities a lot of big answers in
1:51:36it uh reese witherspoon's production company hallow sunshine has sold multiple shows to apple at this
1:51:41point yeah she is three yes she is probably their single most important creator on the service in a
1:51:47weird interesting way because not it doesn't matter about her a-list status she is a big power player
1:51:53in hollywood now and uh is exa in herself in that way so i think pretty she'll be there plus plus
1:51:58she is in the show with jennifer aniston and steve correll yeah so she is wearing the two hats
1:52:05exactly which i think that's why i think that she is like so important to the service like she is
1:52:09behind the scenes and in front of the camera this is going to be my clever first pick after you took
1:52:14the obvious pick but you took it instead which is very clever of you um i will just go ahead and say
1:52:19who's the only person who apple has talked about who they are excited to be in business with and
1:52:25that's oprah yes oprah winfrey was a high on my list too they are gonna be wheeling out oprah for
1:52:32this one you would think i i think oprah can walk out she's fine yeah she could just walk and give
1:52:37a wave and just walk straight off again and we're all good i like her being brought out in like a
1:52:41sedan chair or something like that like here she is it's oprah say no more but uh yeah yeah i don't
1:52:47know who's going to be on stage is anybody going to be on stage but i like the idea that this is
1:52:52apple's opportunity to cart out celebrities so uh we might as well pick them and see what happens i
1:52:56am imagining do you remember when marvel brought all of their create like all of their heroes out
1:53:01for the first avengers movie you know and they all did that like big lineup like good got a lot of
1:53:05superstars like that's what this feels like to me that it's where they might not get that exact shot
1:53:11it is this is the beginning of the apple cinematic universe um sure got it so my next pick is j.j
1:53:16abrams for a similar reason for reese with a spoon j.j that's the best you've mentioned before
1:53:21big apple fan but also involved in two projects at apple um right now so i think j.j will be happy to
1:53:29come on stage yeah yeah he is a giant apple fan from way back mac fan um did the opening titles
1:53:36and music for the show alias which was his second tv show uh himself on his mac i did not know that
1:53:43yeah oh yeah the music and the title they had him in that like photo montage didn't they a while ago
1:53:49of people using that contortion and he's spoken at wwdc he is producing a show for apple i think
1:53:55it's a i think it's a good one yeah he's producing two there's two shows two shows see there you go
1:53:59oh it's it's it's tough i'm gonna go i'm gonna go with steven spielberg next good pick uh he he is
1:54:07uh he made a deal with apple for uh amazing stories he was one of the first people to make a deal with
1:54:14apple um i think everybody knows who steven spielberg is that is that is helpful he is a
1:54:20legend in hollywood and the thing that put it over the edge to me for me is that he has spoken out
1:54:25uh in negative ways about netflix and film um and even though apple has some film plans of its own
1:54:33i kind of like the idea that steven spielberg would take would would go to an apple event as
1:54:38a dig on netflix so i'm gonna pick steven spielberg beef he's going for the beef
1:54:43so here's the thing i really struggle with my last one our last picks for this
1:54:48because apple have at their disposal here maybe not at their disposal but on their roster i mean
1:54:54i was looking at this and putting this together the star power that they have for this service
1:55:00is astronomical to me like brie larson captain marvel is going to be doing a show
1:55:05jason momoa whose aquaman is doing a show you've got captain america captain america chris evans
1:55:11is doing a show my understanding is that chris evans has been shooting uh it was shooting scenes
1:55:16in in a in in the park behind john syracuse's house so oh wow i can report that exclusively
1:55:22here i think chris evans was in john's backyard and who knows syracuse is in the show maybe john's
1:55:27dog ran past chris evans and he petted it who knows but they have a lot of uh stars but i
1:55:34think that they will want to show a bit of breadth in their service offering so i think they will
1:55:39have a representative from sesame workshop come on stage are you saying that there will be a puppet
1:55:45i don't know if there'll be a puppet there might be a puppet but an individual from the sesame
1:55:49workshop will come on stage to talk about some of the content that their workers like oprah
1:55:54they have a a like a big big contract it's not a like here's this one show it is a you're gonna
1:56:00make a suite of products for us they also have this with um peanuts like charlie brown and stuff
1:56:06but i think sesame workshop feels good uh that would probably be a good good kind of like hey
1:56:11we're not just all about adult shows and dramas and stuff like that we've got we've got something
1:56:16for everyone so i think sesame workshop will be uh on stage at the event and i have so many to pick
1:56:21here i feel like um jason mimoa who is the star of of that show c which by all accounts is one of the
1:56:27most expensive tv shows made maybe maybe outside of game of thrones um is i i would not be surprised
1:56:35if he's there he is also aquaman um but uh i'm gonna go in a different direction which is i'm
1:56:42gonna jump off of your jj abram's pick and say especially since apple enjoys music as well uh
1:56:49whether it's a musical performance or whether it's just a joint performance with jj i'm gonna
1:56:54say sarah burellis yep because she is working with jj abrams on a show called little voice and she is
1:57:04composing the music for the show um so i think that's really interesting like it is it is uh
1:57:14that that yeah that that i like that connection it just feels very appley that she's she's working
1:57:20um with jj abrams and she's working doing music stuff and that makes uh makes apple yeah happy i
1:57:27think it's a good pick because if they do jj he's probably gonna come out when he's collaborating
1:57:31you know like they're working together on a show so it makes sense for them to come out together
1:57:34and talk about the show that they're working on now i want to see ron moore uh who was a star
1:57:38trek producer in battle star galactica and does outlander now i want to see him on stage but
1:57:42i don't think ron moore again i think you either need to be a big name producer or you need to be
1:57:47somebody who is a well-known entertainer so again just to clarify the celebrity round these are
1:57:54the actual human beings walking on the stage it's not appearing in a trailer yes because we have a
1:58:00trailer round around so these are we're assuming that apple will show some trailers for that content
1:58:05or some scenes or something to show like we do actually have stuff look how good it is yeah i
1:58:10think it could even be a still i think they could even be if you if you show a still image if we see
1:58:15something from a tv production on a screen that counts for this round yeah i suppose if they do
1:58:20one of those things where they have like a video that shows a like a billion cuts of all the
1:58:26different shows that they're doing in in a minute that uh all of these might score uh but uh and
1:58:31we'll have to do some little uh trailer like frame by frame trailer analysis in order to get that out
1:58:36but we'll do that we'll do that so my first one i'm going to go with because i think that this is
1:58:41going to be their crown jewel the race witherspoon jennifer aniston and steve correll morning show
1:58:45drama um i think that for me the sheer star power that they have attached to this show is going to
1:58:54make it an important show for them um i think that you know it was it was incredible when they brought
1:58:59on witherspoon and aniston to be in this show together especially because jennifer aniston's
1:59:03not been in tv shows for such a long time this is her return to tv but then when they added steve
1:59:09correll and later on it was like oh okay like they they wanted to go big right for for their like for
1:59:15the final casting of all of this like not they have pumped a lot of star power into this one show
1:59:21um so i think that this is going to be a big one for them and i think you know some kind of some
1:59:26kind of imagery for that will look good if they're all on screen at the same time you know like look
1:59:31at this look at all these amazing stars they're in one of our tv shows we have three hollywood actors
1:59:38in one tv show it's also um an early order and i think that that's there's some power in that too
1:59:44it was ordered a long time ago yeah and it also seems like it's this isn't a science fiction show
1:59:49this one is probably faster to make right you would assume right and and i think it'll be one
1:59:55of the first ones that they launch we didn't draft a sort of launch strategy but i would not be
2:00:01surprised if there were if they made pilots available to everyone or to some people i think
2:00:07that's sensible in the same way that you know i think they'll have some other content and you can
2:00:11buy right you buy descriptions i think it'll be similar they'll have some kind of uh hey watch
2:00:15this one episode but that that might exist after a free trial period which i think we have we have
2:00:21lots of things that we didn't get into in this in this draft that i think are really open questions
2:00:25maybe we'll talk about it briefly at the end uh with the bring out your dead round um i'm gonna go
2:00:29uh you said uh you know it's not science fiction i'm gonna say they they need some science fiction
2:00:33because they want some explosions and if jason mamoa isn't on stage they could at least put
2:00:38aquaman himself in uh in a clip from sea which again if they're spending a lot of money on it
2:00:44that money is going to be on the screen i think they will want something that's got you know
2:00:48dazzling visuals explosions and the like so i'm gonna i'm gonna say we'll see something of sea
2:00:56um i agree it was on my list uh i'm gonna go back to oprah there's gonna be some oprah content uh
2:01:02in in this thing i think do we all get a car uh you know look under your seats you will get an
2:01:08apple tv okay i'm looking i'm looking forward to that apple tv is for everybody yeah i think
2:01:11there's just something and i have no idea what it will be but as again as we mentioned they've
2:01:15made a big song and dance about this one so oh uh i am gonna i'm gonna play uh favorites a little
2:01:23bit and i'm gonna say in addition to see i think we're gonna uh one of the early orders was ronald
2:01:28d moore's sci-fi series and although ron moore may not be a household name to be put on stage i
2:01:34hope he is but i i didn't pick him um that is an interesting show because it's about the space race
2:01:39uh but the space race continued after the apollo program and continues to this day so it's an
2:01:45advanced sort of human exploration in space also possibly cold war kind of show and you know we're
2:01:52headed up to the 50th anniversary of the moon landing um i think it would be i think thematically
2:01:59it would be good with all these sci-fi series is a question of do they have clips that have effects
2:02:03or can they do some effects for the clips i'm sure they could if they wanted to that happens for
2:02:08trailers for movies they do effects just for the trailers because it's so much earlier than the
2:02:13rest of the movie so i'm going to put a chip down on that one on ron moore's sci-fi series about
2:02:18space the space race because i think it will have some spectacular visuals that people will like
2:02:23my final pick for trailers is going to be little america which is being created by husband and wife
2:02:32team kumar najini and emily v gordon they worked on the big sick together big sick yeah great great
2:02:38movie and they're working with uh some of the producers and writers of masters of none as he's
2:02:43in sorry show and it's basically looking at true stories of immigrants in america and like telling
2:02:49their kind of and it's described as the funny romantic heartfelt inspiring and unexpected lives
2:02:54of immigrants in america at a time where their stories are more relevant than ever i think apple's
2:02:59again going to want to show some some breadth to their um kind of offering but also you know the
2:03:04big sick performed so well at award shows uh i think that that it might also you know and also
2:03:10that movie was very successful as an indie hit even so i think that's gonna gonna play pretty
2:03:15well for them lots of great choices still on the board because they've they've ordered so many shows
2:03:19oh my god so many shows i'm gonna go i'm gonna go like you chose sesame workshop in the celebrity
2:03:25round i'm gonna go with another one of their deals that shows the well-roundedness of this so you've
2:03:29got the oprah content we've shown a mainstream drama we've got some sci-fi we've got this almost
2:03:33kind of indie feeling uh and netflix feeling show with little america netflix feeling show
2:03:39i'm gonna round it out with with kids content and in this case rather than going back to sesame
2:03:43workshop i'm gonna pick uh peanuts charlie brown that will get a glimpse of even if it's literally
2:03:49just a glimpse of snoopy and charlie brown uh i think apple wants to send a message of like yeah
2:03:53we got peanuts because they do they they made a deal with with uh charles schultz's uh company to
2:03:59do charlie brown peanuts content as well as their deal with sesame workshop to do new stuff so
2:04:05charlie brown and snoopy are recognizable i think worldwide and uh so they'll they'll appear somehow
2:04:13on stage as a part of this because you gotta brag you gotta you gotta brag about having uh snoopy
2:04:18locked up i think as well it's like who would you bring out on stage right so like yeah that
2:04:22will make sense to show charlie brown everybody so i think that that would that would make sense
2:04:27to show visually as opposed to like hey bring out this person because there kind of isn't really
2:04:31anybody to bring out all right so finally our tiebreaker so our tiebreaker round is a madcap
2:04:37question uh in the essence supplied by me supplied by jason snell and the question is what is the
2:04:43color of tim's shoes uh i should have done some research into this should have beforehand but i'm
2:04:50gonna say dark gray dark gray okay we're gonna have a real debate if it's a mid-tone gray oh
2:04:58it's gonna be wild um i am going to say see i looked at pictures and he has done white he's
2:05:07done black i there's a lot of kremlinology that should not go on about this so i'm gonna say white
2:05:13all right so before we before we finish out today we've got a whole draft as always you can find
2:05:18uh the scorecard in the show notes so you can draw you can like pick along at home but things that we
2:05:23didn't talk about i said a couple of things i wanted to mention um i think that apple will talk
2:05:29about other partners that they're going to be working with to bring airplay to like roku maybe
2:05:34fire tv as well just like these are some other companies that we're gonna work with they'll show
2:05:39they'll talk about their deal with samsung they'll talk about the home apps on like you know the
2:05:44advancements with home and what they're going to be doing with airplay on other devices but i think
2:05:49they'll also have some other options to show off which will be roku fire tv as the low price entry
2:05:56point and then they're still going to have the apple tv as the higher point and then working
2:05:59with other tv manufacturers and integrating home kit and stuff like that i will throw in one that
2:06:04i didn't pick which is uh which i really like which is uh tim apple i think somebody will make
2:06:08a tim apple reference yeah i don't think it will be i don't think it will be tim cook but perhaps
2:06:13one of those crazy actors will say thanks tim apple oh yeah i hadn't thought of it that way
2:06:20that was good yeah because i thought when i put it in it just happened and i was like ah they'll
2:06:24make it now it feels like a bit old the joke but yeah it definitely feels like something someone
2:06:30would say to get a quick a cheap laugh yes i want to ask you because you put in a couple of things
2:06:35and this is probably what you would go to next but what is going to happen with the mac and this
2:06:41content yeah so i think one of the most fascinating things here i think it'll be in the tv app
2:06:44everywhere else one of the most fascinating things about this whole thing and um uh is where what
2:06:50happens on the mac and i i think it's a real question i almost made this a pick them as well
2:06:56because it really is like what do they do so i think they got some options right they can say
2:07:00we put it in itunes yay nobody is excited about that uh they could say it's going to be on the tv
2:07:07app which is coming to the mac this fall they could do that right like marzipan and it'll be
2:07:12on the tv app this fall and you'll need to upgrade your mac in order to watch the service they could
2:07:17say um it is uh what we're also doing is you can log into your account and watch it on the web
2:07:24and that means that if you're on a mac or a pc or any other platform chromebooks whatever you can
2:07:29watch it on the web as well and that's like i mean every other video service right the the fallback
2:07:34is the web if they don't have an app it's fine it's on the web i think that might be the easiest
2:07:39thing for them to do and then they don't need to worry about updating any mac app to support it and
2:07:43maybe the tv app comes later um and it is possible that they will just literally say this will be on
2:07:49the mac in the fall when that app comes out and otherwise you have no no other way to watch it on
2:07:54the mac but um i don't know which one they're going to choose if i had a guess i would say
2:08:00it will be available on the web and then maybe the tv app will come to the mac this fall marzipan
2:08:05yeah right yeah i think that would be the scenario there but i i would really like them to see
2:08:10to see them do a web version only because it um it gets them on all other platforms without them
2:08:18actually having to support them particularly as long as they can get the web page it answers a
2:08:22million questions exactly right it's just oh it's if you want it it's just on the web go watch it on
2:08:27the web yeah log into your apple id and there it'll be so that is the draft the draft is taken care
2:08:35of you can find links to scorecard and links to everything else we discussed about in this episode
2:08:40i hope that you have enjoyed this extra special wonderful bonus bumper episode of upgrade this has
2:08:46been a really big episode for us yes thanks thanks to uh thanks to our special guest as well it was a
2:08:50big big moment for us to have a special apple guest on i know for the first time very very
2:08:56very happy about that and again we'll actually give a little shout follow out you should go listen to
2:09:01atp with feel chiller it's incredible it's a wonderful wonderful episode totally puts all
2:09:05these apple people on podcast i know isn't it great but we're feeling very very uh we feel
2:09:10really pleased that we're able to do this today and i hope that you enjoyed the episode as much
2:09:14as we have enjoyed putting it together you can find links to everything that we've spoken about
2:09:18today over at relay.fm upgrade slash 237 but you can also find those links in your podcast app of
2:09:25choice if you want to find jason online you can go to sixcolors.com the incomparable.com and he is
2:09:31@jsnell on social networks like twitter and instagram and stuff like that and i am @imike
2:09:38thanks to squarespace and lunar display and green chef for the support of this show but most of all
2:09:45as always thank you for listening we'll be back next time when we're reporting live after an event
2:09:51yes that's right it'll be a later release than usual because i will be in cupertino for the event
2:09:55but it's going to be the regular day usually it's like a wild day of the week but it's going to be
2:09:58on monday jason's going to be there so we will be reporting um as soon as he is done and back in
2:10:04the snell zone yes i will tell you what oprah is really like oprah okay so thank you so much for
2:10:10tuning in we'll be back next week with even more until then say goodbye jason snow oh i'm tired
2:10:16goodbye everybody
2:10:25so