00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 235. Today's show is brought to you by Freshbooks,
00:00:14 ◼ ► Eero, and Luna Display. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow.
00:00:20 ◼ ► I'm Myke Hurley. How are you enjoying my country? I'm very well. I'm in Chicago, Illinois right now.
00:00:25 ◼ ► We'll talk about why in a minute, because right now nobody cares about that, because all they want
00:00:29 ◼ ► is our #SnowTalk question, which this week comes from Jonathan. And Jonathan wants to know, Jason,
00:00:34 ◼ ► when you make cereal, do you put the cereal in the bowl first or the milk in the bowl first?
00:00:40 ◼ ► This is a weird question, which is only appropriate, I suppose, so thank you, Jonathan.
00:00:56 ◼ ► And if you put the cereal on the milk, the cereal just floats on the milk, and it doesn't tell you
00:01:00 ◼ ► anything. I feel like what I'm about to say is the type of thing that you should never say,
00:01:05 ◼ ► but I think people that put milk in first are monsters. Yeah, so I was gonna say, I know that
00:01:11 ◼ ► in England especially, there is the great debate about tea, about you do milk in first or not.
00:01:17 ◼ ► Yeah, it's the same deal. Milk always goes in afterwards. Yeah, I usually put the milk in later.
00:01:22 ◼ ► You gotta use what's in the mug or the cup as the way to judge how much milk is required.
00:01:28 ◼ ► Yeah. It's simple. Right, because you can then add more milk and until it reaches the level.
00:01:33 ◼ ► If you put the milk in first and pour the cereal in, the milk's gonna spill out of the bowl,
00:01:40 ◼ ► It could, or it's just gonna float on top of the milk, and then what have you done? You've just got
00:01:45 ◼ ► a cereal that you have to dig through to get to the milk. The idea there is the milk gets poured
00:01:50 ◼ ► over the cereal and it helps coat the cereal in the milk. Exactly. So it distributes the milk a
00:01:56 ◼ ► little more widely and then you can start. So yeah, that's my story. On this show, we share lots of
00:02:02 ◼ ► opinions about things and we get lots of responses. We talk about, again, like today, we're gonna talk
00:02:08 ◼ ► about what do we like more, touch ID or face ID. I guarantee the majority of feedback that we're
00:02:13 ◼ ► gonna get about this episode is people's feelings about the cereal or milk question. Or more broadly,
00:02:18 ◼ ► milk in first. Just in general, which should never happen. I will acknowledge the... I will
00:02:24 ◼ ► occasionally put the milk in first in my wife's tea, only because I'm lazy. And if you put the
00:02:29 ◼ ► milk in first and then put the tea in... It stirs it for you. You don't have to stir it.
00:02:34 ◼ ► It's still unacceptable. But it's not, yeah. But it was a bonus question from Jonathan.
00:02:45 ◼ ► I don't eat cereal very much. And when I do, it is some kashi, heart health. It's like little hearts
00:02:52 ◼ ► and circles that are... It's boring. Cereal is what I eat. When I eat it, I don't eat it a lot.
00:02:57 ◼ ► It's technically, some people say oatmeal is a cereal, which I don't think I would say it is.
00:03:01 ◼ ► It's close, but it's not the same. Oatmeal with some maple syrup, actually, in that. I like that.
00:03:07 ◼ ► And then my... But my all-time favorite, my childhood favorite, the go-to, the one that I
00:03:11 ◼ ► didn't get very often and I loved it when I got it. Cap'n Crunch. Cap'n Crunch. Loved it. Loved it.
00:03:17 ◼ ► I had Cap'n Crunch for the first time in Portland, XOXO. There's actually a top four episode,
00:03:29 ◼ ► And I'm not in that episode, although you may hear me in the background. I was witnessing it from
00:03:33 ◼ ► behind the core group I was watching as all that happened. By the way, I have to correct you, Myke.
00:03:40 ◼ ► It's not Cap'n Crunch. Cap'n. It's Cap'n Crunch. Cap'n. Cap'n Crunch. C-A-P-apostrophe-N.
00:03:48 ◼ ► My favorite cereal is something which is very close to what is called Cinnamon Toast Crunch
00:03:54 ◼ ► in America, but in the UK, it is called Curiously Cinnamon, which I think is the best name for a
00:04:02 ◼ ► cereal that has ever existed. Curiously Cinnamon. How curious. From the people who brought you,
00:04:08 ◼ ► bizarrely, vanilla and strangely chocolate. That could not be more English. Okay, great. Good to
00:04:16 ◼ ► know. Good to know. I knew it was going to be a good name. I knew it was going to be one of the
00:04:19 ◼ ► brand names that is explained to an American and the American can't even understand what just
00:04:29 ◼ ► Snail Talk question. I'm going to have a classic here. You can send in a question of any kind to
00:04:33 ◼ ► open the show and if it's weird and wonderful enough, it may just be chosen. Just send in a tweet
00:04:38 ◼ ► with the hashtag SnailTalk. So I am in Chicago. The reason I'm in Chicago is because I made a
00:04:44 ◼ ► surprise appearance on Mac Power Users 472, which was recorded live in Chicago this weekend.
00:04:50 ◼ ► And I popped up during the show, as did Rosemary Orchard of Automators and we were guests on the
00:04:58 ◼ ► show. The reason that I did this is I just wanted to come out and support the guys because they,
00:05:03 ◼ ► you know, basically what happened was, Jason, I tell this story on the Mac Power Users episode.
00:05:07 ◼ ► I heard it. I heard it because I listened. Yeah. When Steven came on board with the show,
00:05:12 ◼ ► he sent me the first episode before it went up and I could tell how happy he was and I was so
00:05:16 ◼ ► excited for him that I just booked a plane ticket to Chicago. And then here I am. How often are you
00:05:22 ◼ ► in the US these days? You come to the US so often now. That is amazing. This year on average, I
00:05:28 ◼ ► think it's every six weeks. That's amazing. Well, that is a fun episode. And Steven tried out some
00:05:36 ◼ ► new podcast equipment, which is exciting. So that was also fun. Sounds great. And you got me looking
00:05:43 ◼ ► at USBC hubs because, well, I guess Rose got me looking at USBC hubs because they were in that
00:05:51 ◼ ► episode, they were talking about it. And I'm not making any purchases now, but I am intrigued by it
00:05:56 ◼ ► because of my iPad, because I don't have a Mac laptop with USBC on it, but I do have an iPad Pro
00:06:05 ◼ ► with USBC. And I'm intrigued by the idea of one of these hubs because there could be scenarios where
00:06:10 ◼ ► I want to charge and have devices connected, right? Wouldn't that be for podcasting and things like
00:06:15 ◼ ► that. But I decided I'm going to wait because I would really like to know Apple's intentions toward
00:06:22 ◼ ► USB devices in iOS going forward before I do that. I like the idea of buying a little box.
00:06:27 ◼ ► In fact, if they add support for, for example, reading the files off of an SD card that aren't
00:06:34 ◼ ► photos or videos, that's a great time to get a little hub that would give me maybe a headphone
00:06:40 ◼ ► jack and an SD card reader and some USB ports and all of that. I don't really need a VGA port or
00:06:46 ◼ ► something, but I do occasionally present to user groups and having those ports around might be good
00:06:58 ◼ ► adapter thingies would be wasted on an iPad. And so I'm going to wait, but I am intrigued that
00:07:08 ◼ ► - I bought one of those hyper drives. So I backed it on Kickstarter. This is like a little thing
00:07:14 ◼ ► that's meant to hyper drive. I'm actually using one of their products right now for my MacBook Pro,
00:07:23 ◼ ► coded to basically match the laptops and they just plug into the side of the laptop. And it's like a
00:07:28 ◼ ► long strip of metal that has a bunch of plugs, a bunch of ports in it. Well, they created one
00:07:32 ◼ ► for the iPad, they had a Kickstarter campaign and mine's actually been shipped. So I may be able to
00:07:36 ◼ ► talk about that next week if it's of any interest, if the product is good. We'll see. But I backed
00:07:42 ◼ ► one of those because I just saw it, it's like, oh, it looks like a good product. And I'm hoping,
00:07:51 ◼ ► Upgrading Zvante about terminology for folding phones. Zvante suggests terminology that is used
00:08:00 ◼ ► in the world of origami. So they've got two names here, the Valley Fold and the Mountain Fold,
00:08:06 ◼ ► which are beautiful ways of describing it. So the Valley Fold is the Samsung because the screens go
00:08:11 ◼ ► in on themselves, right? So the fold is at the bottom. And the Mountain Fold is the Huawei because
00:08:16 ◼ ► it goes out on itself. So we've got Valley Fold and Mountain Fold. I'm going to try my best to try
00:08:21 ◼ ► and incorporate those going forward because I think that's a really great and tidy way of
00:08:25 ◼ ► describing the differences in the folding screens. Like when you say Valley and Mountain, it like,
00:08:31 ◼ ► visually, you can get an idea, right? Like screen on the inside, screen on the outside. So that's
00:08:36 ◼ ► really, really good feedback. And we're going to try and remember that going forward. That's way
00:08:39 ◼ ► better than Inny and Outty. It's this is why because I have no time. I have no time for that
00:08:45 ◼ ► description. It's not something that I want to be saying and it's not something that I will say. So
00:08:51 ◼ ► Valley Fold and Mountain Fold. So we're going to move into Upstream now. I had some great feedback,
00:09:01 ◼ ► what Upstream is, which is a really good point. Upstream is a segment on upgrade where we talk
00:09:07 ◼ ► about the happenings in streaming media. So this is because this was actually this the idea for
00:09:12 ◼ ► this started in Chicago, like a year or two ago, when me and Jason were talking, we were talking
00:09:18 ◼ ► about Disney because they were kind of ramping up to do something. And we found that we both
00:09:22 ◼ ► really enjoyed talking about the kind of the happenings in streaming media, and especially
00:09:27 ◼ ► because it was becoming clear, and it's now abundantly clear that Apple, which is obviously
00:09:32 ◼ ► the company we focus on on upgrade, is getting into this world themselves. So we thought we would
00:09:37 ◼ ► prepare ourselves and prepare the Upgradients by talking about what's going on in the world of
00:09:41 ◼ ► streaming media. And that is what Upstream is all about. Right. And a ghost foretold that this will
00:09:49 ◼ ► you know, believe that necessarily. But the ghost, yeah, what will happen will happen in life in the
00:09:55 ◼ ► future. We don't know. But a ghost, we're big with ghosts is what I'm saying. Ghosts love Upstream.
00:10:05 ◼ ► Yeah. So Richard Plepler, who actually has been on stage at an Apple event when they were rolling
00:10:13 ◼ ► out HBO Now on Apple TV, I believe he's been the CEO at HBO for a long time. And before that,
00:10:21 ◼ ► he worked in other jobs at HBO. He is out. He has quit at HBO. And this is part of a larger story.
00:10:32 ◼ ► So one guy losing his job is not necessarily a larger story, but there are major changes that
00:10:37 ◼ ► AT&T is performing at WarnerMedia. So they hired Robert Greenblatt, who was the head of Showtime
00:10:44 ◼ ► and NBC. He is now in charge of entertainment. He's basically the president of entertainment
00:10:50 ◼ ► at WarnerMedia. And that includes HBO as well as the Turner Networks, you know, TBS and TNT.
00:10:57 ◼ ► They've also done a reorg where a different executive is in charge of like the animation
00:11:05 ◼ ► stuff, Adult Swim and Cartoon Network and all of that. They put the sports stuff under Jeff Zucker,
00:11:10 ◼ ► who runs CNN. And basically what we're seeing here is that the Warner Brothers structure
00:11:17 ◼ ► and the Time Warner structure from back in the day was full of these little fiefdoms. So like there
00:11:23 ◼ ► were the Turner people and there were the HBO was its own little thing and Plepler ran it. And AT&T
00:11:32 ◼ ► is not interested in that. Like AT&T is like, this is not how we want this to be structured,
00:11:36 ◼ ► which is their prerogative and might even be right. I mean, I think it's worth having that.
00:11:42 ◼ ► Like organizations do get in weird structural things where there are reasons because of the
00:11:46 ◼ ► people that you've got or because of historical things that don't matter anymore. The new owner
00:11:50 ◼ ► comes in and says, this doesn't make any sense. It's their prerogative. They may be right.
00:11:54 ◼ ► It will lead to a lot of turnover and layoffs and all sorts of things like that. It may end up
00:12:00 ◼ ► making them a much better structured company going forward, but there's a lot going on there.
00:12:08 ◼ ► And then I think, and we talked about this on TV Talk Machine, my podcast with Tim Goodman from the
00:12:12 ◼ ► Hollywood Reporter last Friday. There is this sense that this is the end of HBO as we know it,
00:12:20 ◼ ► but we knew, you and I talked about it. We knew this was coming because the head, the AT&T guy
00:12:26 ◼ ► who was brought in to be in charge of WarnerMedia, he stood up in front of a crowd of HBO employees.
00:12:34 ◼ ► And this is John Stanky, the CEO of WarnerMedia who worked at Southwestern Bell and AT&T for a long
00:12:47 ◼ ► can't be a boutique anymore. We want you to, we want quantity. Quality over quantity isn't going
00:12:54 ◼ ► to do it for us. We want quantity too. And at one point famously, and this is a presentation in front
00:13:00 ◼ ► of employees at HBO, Pletpler pointed out that HBO is profitable. And I totally get what he was doing,
00:13:06 ◼ ► which is he's trying to like pump up his employees a little bit and said, look, our business is good.
00:13:10 ◼ ► And so he says that and he's immediately undercut by Stanky who says essentially not profitable
00:13:15 ◼ ► enough. And it was like, okay, writing's on the wall here. AT&T now owns your business.
00:13:22 ◼ ► They don't care that you're a little profitable, boutique, critically acclaimed television thing
00:13:29 ◼ ► because they think, and this is the funny thing is they think that's going to be irrelevant
00:13:35 ◼ ► in the future of streaming media and that something of the size of HBO is not going to be
00:13:41 ◼ ► able to make it. And I don't know if they're wrong about that, right? But it is the case that this
00:13:55 ◼ ► critically acclaimed award-winning content, which everybody wants like Netflix wants that everybody
00:14:02 ◼ ► wants that that was profitable and successful, but maybe not the business that is exactly what
00:14:07 ◼ ► AT&T wanted and their response is to blow it up and like, okay, okay. You the owners, you bought
00:14:14 ◼ ► it. You can break it, but you may regret it, right? You may regret that decision because you're
00:14:20 ◼ ► taking an asset and taking everything potentially that it was good at out of it. And it doesn't have,
00:14:27 ◼ ► it doesn't retain its value. If you take HBO and you mash it up into little pieces and spread it
00:14:32 ◼ ► around your organization, it's not like the same amount of value spreads through your organization
00:14:37 ◼ ► necessarily. You could just have lost all the value of HBO, but this is what AT&T is doing
00:14:43 ◼ ► with modern media is they basically are taking it all apart and then putting it back together again.
00:14:47 ◼ ► So Plepler leaving HBO is symbolic in a way of just how much they're doing and Greenblatt coming in
00:14:56 ◼ ► and the other lieutenants kind of getting their areas that they've broken apart the old way that
00:15:01 ◼ ► they did business at this company. And, you know, cause they're serious about this. Like they want
00:15:06 ◼ ► that Warner media streaming service, especially to be a major player. And they also have to navigate
00:15:25 ◼ ► you know, maybe we'll put the stake in the ground when the Game of Thrones finale airs or something
00:15:31 ◼ ► prepare yourself for a lot of think pieces about how the Game of Thrones finale is emblematic of
00:15:47 ◼ ► - So Spielberg believes that movies coming from streaming services should only get as far as the
00:15:53 ◼ ► Emmys and not be in contention for Oscars. And he's going to be supporting some broad changes to
00:15:58 ◼ ► the Academy Awards that are happening soon. Well, that are going to be tried to be put into place.
00:16:04 ◼ ► And there's going to be discussions about changes to rules and he's going to be making this case.
00:16:08 ◼ ► So the case that Spielberg and others believe is that they feel that the playing field is
00:16:18 ◼ ► your Netflixes, for example. They say the budgets can be way larger than traditional studios. Like,
00:16:24 ◼ ► for example, I think Roma's budget was like 50 million and some of the other movies in the
00:16:29 ◼ ► category, like the foreign film category were like 5 million. Spielberg believes and others believe
00:16:36 ◼ ► that these movies are not spending enough time in the theater. They're just spending the minimum
00:16:41 ◼ ► or maximum amount of time that they need to be able to be in contention. They're immediately
00:16:46 ◼ ► available worldwide, 24/7. I'm not 100% sure why this is a problem. And they don't respect the 90
00:16:52 ◼ ► day theatrical release window. These are the reasons why people like Steven Spielberg are
00:16:57 ◼ ► saying, "Oh no, they shouldn't be in contention for the Oscars." And I think this is bull. I think
00:17:02 ◼ ► it's absolutely ridiculous personally, because this is a bunch of people who believe that an
00:17:10 ◼ ► old way is the right way of doing things. And they're scared that the new people are coming in
00:17:14 ◼ ► and they're trying to beat them off. And I think what frustrates me the most about this is Spielberg
00:17:18 ◼ ► has his hand in many pies with these streaming companies already. And for some reason, he's now
00:17:24 ◼ ► trying to protect them from the Oscars. Like the Oscars are this magical thing that can't be
00:17:29 ◼ ► tarnished. When clearly the movie industry has changed so much since the Oscars began anyway,
00:17:34 ◼ ► and there's been so many other changes, this is just another change that this industry is going
00:17:38 ◼ ► to have to go through. That's right. This is somebody in his 70s who doesn't like change that
00:17:46 ◼ ► he sees in the world, but he was a beneficiary of the change. He wrought change in the movie industry
00:17:53 ◼ ► too. I mean, he created the modern blockbuster with Jaws, right? Like it's ridiculous. And from
00:18:00 ◼ ► a pure rules standpoint, because as a sports fan, I'm fascinated by how sports leagues change their
00:18:09 ◼ ► rules in order to try to change the product and make it more entertaining. And sometimes they
00:18:13 ◼ ► fail and sometimes they succeed. And there are always arguments about, well, we want to keep the
00:18:17 ◼ ► sanctity of what it's always been. And other people say, no, you need to change because what you've
00:18:22 ◼ ► got right now isn't good anymore. And this is a little bit like that, which is like, let's make
00:18:25 ◼ ► some arcane rule changes in order to really stick it to Netflix. And I think this is a challenge
00:18:34 ◼ ► because movies and television are basically the same now. Like the only, like literally,
00:18:41 ◼ ► I mean, there are differences, but like it's the same acting pool, it's the same talent pool.
00:18:46 ◼ ► The quality standard can vary across them, but it's pretty much equal. Like you have good and
00:18:52 ◼ ► bad prestige TV and prestige movies aren't really any different. All the players are the same.
00:18:58 ◼ ► And so you end up being in this arcane thing like is the Oscars, this is like Oscar saying,
00:19:03 ◼ ► we want to have a popular film category. Like really? Because you're basically creating the
00:19:09 ◼ ► most artificial of barriers in order to put things in the corner. And this is a good example of that
00:19:21 ◼ ► referred to Roma as a TV movie the other week. And it's like, okay, that is a laugh, right? Like Roma
00:19:27 ◼ ► first off was a should have won best picture and probably didn't because people in the Academy
00:19:34 ◼ ► also feel like Steven Spielberg and don't like Netflix and the Academy of Odors are older.
00:19:38 ◼ ► But you know, are we really going to take an award show and make it entirely about preserving
00:19:45 ◼ ► the theater owners business model that's falling apart? And is there really, well, we, this is a
00:19:53 ◼ ► celebration of art, but only art that appears in certain places for certain durations of time. Now
00:19:59 ◼ ► they may go down this path, right? Cause the, the con kind of film festival went down this path.
00:20:04 ◼ ► But it seems like a mistake to me. I mean, Netflix went to the trouble of screening Roma in theaters
00:20:16 ◼ ► And it, and it got a lot of applause from critics who said this, you should go see this in the
00:20:23 ◼ ► theater, even though it's on Netflix because it's beautiful. I just, I feel like this is,
00:20:28 ◼ ► is completely misguided. So I I'm with you. This is, this is, it's sad to have a, such a
00:20:39 ◼ ► And BBC and ITV are set to launch BritBox in the UK. This is a streaming service that is currently
00:20:45 ◼ ► available in the US, which houses BBC and ITV's content. They're looking to launch it in the UK
00:20:51 ◼ ► now for about five pounds a month. So in the UK, we actually already have on demand services for
00:20:55 ◼ ► the both of these channels. So they have like the BBC iPlayer and ITV now. So you can go on and you
00:21:01 ◼ ► can get access to this content for a set period of time. BBC is, there's no ads, but the content's
00:21:07 ◼ ► only there for say like a month or something. And ITV now it's like a similar thing. Or it's
00:21:12 ◼ ► ITV Hub, I think it's called, sorry. Similar deal. Like you can go on, there's tons of ads,
00:21:17 ◼ ► tons of ads on their content. But you can watch it for a set period of time. And then so the BritBox
00:21:24 ◼ ► service would be adding what, you know, box sets, right? Like full seasons of television shows,
00:21:29 ◼ ► which you can't get on the BBC. Nobody buys DVDs anymore. So this is a streaming service that you
00:21:34 ◼ ► can, instead of buying DVDs, you pay for the streaming service and you get it. Which is
00:21:38 ◼ ► particularly interesting for the BBC because a lot of their stuff isn't even available on iTunes to
00:21:43 ◼ ► buy. So I don't know why that's the case. I'm a little bit annoyed about this, to be honest.
00:21:47 ◼ ► I pay a TV license and that TV license goes to funding the BBC. So now what I pay the TV license,
00:21:55 ◼ ► which is money that I pay, and now I have to pay five pounds a month to get the content as well.
00:22:06 ◼ ► You don't get to, well, okay, but I just want to be clear here. You don't get to walk into a,
00:22:11 ◼ ► do they have HMV anymore? I don't know. You don't get to walk into a store somewhere and
00:22:27 ◼ ► the problem I have with the TV license in the UK is it's effectively treated like a tax.
00:22:31 ◼ ► You can not pay it, but if you don't pay it, you get harassed. They send you letters and they come
00:22:38 ◼ ► to your home. But I never watch BBC content, but I just don't do it. I watch Netflix and I watch
00:22:46 ◼ ► Amazon stuff. We don't even have our television plugged into an aerial. It doesn't receive a
00:22:51 ◼ ► picture because we just watch everything online. But I have to pay the TV license because otherwise
00:22:56 ◼ ► they try and make my life hell. So I have this whole issue, but yes, you are completely right.
00:23:04 ◼ ► I'm sure that there was a really good reason why they built the licensing system in the UK, but
00:23:08 ◼ ► as an American, I've always been fascinated by that and kind of, I find it bizarre because it's
00:23:15 ◼ ► the worst case scenario of somebody saying, "I only want to pay taxes on the services that I use."
00:23:20 ◼ ► And you can't do that, right? Because everybody will then be opting out of every other part of
00:23:26 ◼ ► it that they, like, "I don't drive, I just walk. So I don't want to pay any of the highway taxes
00:23:35 ◼ ► theoretically it comes out and is used for things, some of which are for you and some of which aren't,
00:23:39 ◼ ► but it's for the common good. And that's the thing about this is this strikes me as being like,
00:23:43 ◼ ► there were cranky people who are like, "I don't watch television. I don't own a television. Why
00:23:47 ◼ ► must I pay for the BBC?" They're like, "All right, fine. We'll make it this thing where it's a
00:23:51 ◼ ► license and only people who own TVs will pay it, which is almost everybody, but not you, sir,
00:23:55 ◼ ► not you." It's like, why? I'm sure there are lots of great historical reasons why it exists,
00:24:00 ◼ ► but it should just be part of your taxes. And the government should say, "We will use some portion
00:24:08 ◼ ► of taxes to fund the BBC because it is the gem of Britain's cultural contributions to the world in
00:24:14 ◼ ► the last 100 years." And that's probably enough. - I would be happier with that, right? Like,
00:24:18 ◼ ► if it was just a tax. Like, my problem is like, you treat it like it's a thing you can choose,
00:24:24 ◼ ► well, and because it's public and it's funded by the public, I agree with you. I think it's
00:24:30 ◼ ► really sleazy of them to window content produced by the BBC directly because in the UK, right?
00:24:45 ◼ ► it should probably stay on streaming on iPlayer basically forever. Not for things they buy the
00:24:52 ◼ ► rights to and stuff like that, but for the things that they own and that the license fee paid for,
00:24:57 ◼ ► there is a really strong argument to be made that artificially windowing it so that they can resell
00:25:03 ◼ ► it to you later is crappy. - Yes, you have hit the exact thing of why does it annoy me? Because it's
00:25:09 ◼ ► like, I'm paying for the content to be produced, and then I can watch it online for free, but only
00:25:15 ◼ ► for 30 days. Oh, you missed episode one? Well, you actually now can't get it. Like, I've had stuff
00:25:20 ◼ ► like that where it's like, oh, you missed an episode? Well, you can't buy it anywhere. You
00:25:24 ◼ ► can't watch it now. So what am I doing then? But anyway, I just find this five pounds a month isn't
00:25:29 ◼ ► expensive particularly, but it's like it's hiding on top. - Right, and I like the idea that
00:25:35 ◼ ► theoretically they had a reason to put effort into doing things like DVD releases of old TV shows
00:25:45 ◼ ► and restoring things and getting bonus material and all sorts of other stuff like that when they
00:25:50 ◼ ► had a DVD sales stream and the DVD sales streams are going away and the Blu-ray sales streams.
00:25:56 ◼ ► And I think that's really what they're trying to do here is like, give us a place where people who
00:26:01 ◼ ► want this old stuff can get it and we can have the money so that we can put the old stuff out
00:26:09 ◼ ► because a lot of the old stuff doesn't just appear, right? They've got to actually spend
00:26:12 ◼ ► money to get it on. I saw a whole presentation about this, about the people who restore the
00:26:23 ◼ ► But yeah, I hear you that this is cool in the sense that there's a lot of content that's not,
00:26:29 ◼ ► that's from Britain, that's not available in Britain and it's good that it will be available
00:26:38 ◼ ► - I can't, I couldn't believe this because I didn't really know anything about BritBox.
00:26:42 ◼ ► I thought companies, there was a company that was buying the content. It is wild to me that
00:26:47 ◼ ► the two main networks who are in direct competition joined together to make this service and then
00:26:51 ◼ ► launch it in the UK. - But it was for America and Canada and it was just like whatever.
00:26:54 ◼ ► - Yeah, it's so weird. - And then rolling it out in the UK. But they want to compete with
00:26:59 ◼ ► Netflix is basically the answer. - They do. Yeah. It's weird. We'll see. We'll see. How about I end
00:27:04 ◼ ► up signing up for a year. - Now I'm going to get a lot of angry people who explain why the license
00:27:08 ◼ ► fee is the best way to go. I just feel like, those kinds of tax schemes bother me when it's
00:27:19 ◼ ► you know, if that would be a really, you say that now, but if every road you drive on is a toll road
00:27:28 ◼ ► because nobody wants to pay or, you know, every service you use is you have to pay for that,
00:27:35 ◼ ► even though it's a government service because nobody wants to pay for that thing, but they
00:27:38 ◼ ► want to pay for this other thing. Like at what point is that ridiculous? And I would argue when
00:27:44 ◼ ► you have a separate license for owning a television set or as we now know, Myke, right, a device that
00:27:51 ◼ ► can view televised content. - Yep. Wow. - Like if you want to watch the BBC on a phone, you need to
00:27:58 ◼ ► pay for a license, which is bananas. - Yeah, it asks you. It's silly. Like the way it does it,
00:28:01 ◼ ► so fun. It's like, do you have a TV license? You have to say yes or no. That's it. It's so weird.
00:28:06 ◼ ► Let's take a break and thank FreshBooks for their support of this show. FreshBooks are out there to
00:28:11 ◼ ► try and help freelancers save time because of FreshBooks' amazing tools like being able to
00:28:16 ◼ ► very quickly and easily send out invoices, track your expenses and get paid online. FreshBooks has
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00:28:27 ◼ ► When you send an invoice, when you email a client an invoice for FreshBooks, they will show you
00:28:32 ◼ ► whether that invoice has been opened. They'll show you whether that invoice has been printed. And
00:28:36 ◼ ► every single time somebody goes back to look at that invoice, you can see the trail there. So it
00:28:41 ◼ ► puts an end to those guessing games of did they get it? Did they not get it? You don't need to
00:28:46 ◼ ► send those awkward emails because with FreshBooks, you have that information in front of you. And
00:28:50 ◼ ► talking about awkward emails, if you ever have to send out emails to people and say, hey, you know,
00:28:55 ◼ ► you've passed the time that we set for the invoice, like you're late on the payment, could you please
00:28:59 ◼ ► send it to me? You don't even need to do that because FreshBooks can automate late payment
00:29:03 ◼ ► email reminders for you if you want that. So you can spend less time chasing those payments
00:29:08 ◼ ► and more time being focused on the thing that it is you actually want to do. If you're listening
00:29:13 ◼ ► to this and you've still not tried out FreshBooks, please, please, please give it a go. If you ever
00:29:17 ◼ ► send invoices to anyone, trust me, FreshBooks are the best. I have been using FreshBooks for
00:29:22 ◼ ► nearly five years now, and I wouldn't try anywhere else. FreshBooks are offering an unrestricted 30
00:29:28 ◼ ► day free trial for listeners of this show with no credit card required. All you have to do is go to
00:29:33 ◼ ► freshbooks.com/upgrade and enter upgrade in the how did you hear about us section. Our thanks to
00:29:39 ◼ ► FreshBooks for their support of this show and relay FM. So we actually have a little bit more
00:29:45 ◼ ► upstream related news. This is in regards to a report about Apple. So this was in the New York
00:29:53 ◼ ► Post today, basically stating that Apple executives are meddling too much in the content that's being
00:30:00 ◼ ► produced. Now, we've heard this being said before, but this article has a bunch of quotes from some
00:30:06 ◼ ► sources in the TV industry that I think are particularly interesting to discuss. So I'm
00:30:14 ◼ ► Right. And that's a good disclaimer, by the way, the New York Post, which is a tabloid newspaper
00:30:18 ◼ ► that is, and this is a poor, I would say this is kind of a poorly written story, but it's worth
00:30:23 ◼ ► evaluating the quotes that they've got. Agents and producers can't stop griping about how difficult
00:30:29 ◼ ► Apple is to deal with, citing lack of transparency, lack of clarity and intrusive executives,
00:30:34 ◼ ► including Tim Cook, the CEO. That doesn't surprise me though, right? Like of course, they're not
00:30:40 ◼ ► going to be transparent. And of course, they're not going to be clear because that's Apple's way.
00:30:45 ◼ ► They're not going to tell, I'm not saying this is right, but like this part isn't a surprise to me.
00:30:52 ◼ ► They're not going to tell the TV executives when the service is launching. They're not going to do
00:30:55 ◼ ► that because that's not what Apple does. There's obviously going to be friction here that is
00:31:00 ◼ ► unsurprising that there would be friction between the, in fact, the story says at the end,
00:31:08 ◼ ► and one of their sources says this too, which is like Silicon Valley's culture is different. And
00:31:15 ◼ ► Netflix was like this when they started too, because they were a Silicon Valley company
00:31:28 ◼ ► Will Barron Family friendly is happening again. So another quote, Tim Cook is giving notes and
00:31:33 ◼ ► getting involved that a producer has worked with Apple. One of the CEO's most repeated notes is,
00:31:43 ◼ ► Like I can see that. Um, I want to talk about this quote, but we'll get to that in a minute.
00:31:48 ◼ ► Um, but I have a little bit more. So, uh, they're making big changes, firing and hiring new writers
00:31:54 ◼ ► as a lack of clarity on what they want. A lot of the product is not as good as they hoped it to be.
00:32:06 ◼ ► Yeah. So, um, a couple of notes here, the classic note of why is somebody talking about this, um,
00:32:31 ◼ ► some creative changes and that this person is upset about them. And that doesn't necessarily
00:32:35 ◼ ► mean that that was a bad move or a good move. It just is a person who's upset about them. And
00:32:40 ◼ ► it feeds into the narrative that Apple is, uh, more hands-on here. It's bad. It's trouble for
00:32:45 ◼ ► Apple because the reputation, uh, of Apple in the, uh, entertainment industry is going to affect who
00:32:54 ◼ ► is willing to make deals with them. So, uh, you can be sure that everybody who's involved in making
00:32:59 ◼ ► shows for Apple is going to talk to their friends and colleagues about what the experience is like,
00:33:03 ◼ ► and that will make it harder for Apple to produce, um, shows with top flight talent. If they,
00:33:11 ◼ ► if the, the response is that it was a nightmare that said, if it's not surprising given how many
00:33:16 ◼ ► shows that they funded, that, um, there might be some shows that have been troubled and that Apple
00:33:24 ◼ ► has looked at and said this, we are not satisfied with the quality of this. I'll just, I'll, I'll
00:33:29 ◼ ► invent an example here that might not be at all. But since we talked about Steven Spielberg earlier,
00:33:33 ◼ ► what if their amazing stories deal came through and they looked at the scripts for that, that were
00:33:37 ◼ ► being generated and they're like, no, no, this is not, this is bad. And maybe it was bad or maybe
00:33:42 ◼ ► they're meddling and it was perfectly fine. Um, I'm not surprised that there might be a note that
00:33:47 ◼ ► Apple is not interested in doing, um, doing black mirror. Right. Right. Which is specifically that,
00:33:53 ◼ ► but again, um, there are issues about who's going to work with Apple. I also get like every network
00:34:01 ◼ ► and, and, you know, Netflix is a little different cause Netflix is sort of everything now, but like
00:34:06 ◼ ► every T if you look at TV networks, you know, they have. Tones and they have personalities,
00:34:18 ◼ ► it's going to have this sensibility. If I watch shows from these guys, it's going to have this
00:34:21 ◼ ► sensibility and I don't think it's wrong for Apple to say, here's what we want to be. We want to be
00:34:27 ◼ ► optimistic and we want to be, um, you know, we don't want people to, you know, we don't want this
00:34:33 ◼ ► thing that's mean and we want to be positive about the future and things like that. That's okay
00:34:38 ◼ ► to a point, right. But beyond the point, it ends up being the enemy of good television. And that's
00:34:45 ◼ ► the push and pull. Like, um, as a Star Trek fan, one of the things that happened when they brought
00:34:50 ◼ ► back Star Trek for the next generation was Jean, Jean Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek had this
00:34:54 ◼ ► sort of like over the, over the course of the 15 years, since he had done the original Star Trek or
00:35:04 ◼ ► view of the future where in the future, humanity is perfect and there's no conflict and, uh, and
00:35:08 ◼ ► there's no money and everybody gets along. And then the writers were like, how am I supposed to
00:35:12 ◼ ► write a drama where there's no interpersonal content conflict between the characters and
00:35:16 ◼ ► everybody's perfect? Um, and the answer was, uh, they, they couldn't and the show wasn't very good
00:35:22 ◼ ► until he was no longer closely involved. And that's the, that's the flip side of this, right.
00:35:27 ◼ ► Is like, is Apple trying to flatten the content out so much that it's going to be uninteresting
00:35:32 ◼ ► or is Apple just exerting, um, some really high level comments about what they want the,
00:35:39 ◼ ► the direction of the, of the service to be. Um, so this could be good. It could be bad because,
00:35:46 ◼ ► you know, it could just be somebody who's been out of shape that their, that their show got
00:35:50 ◼ ► the thumbs down. I have a question though. I don't have an answer to this. It's just a question.
00:36:02 ◼ ► I feel like this isn't unique to Apple. Like I can only imagine financial backers have always done
00:36:09 ◼ ► this stuff when it comes to movies and TV. Like if you're paying for it and you have some thoughts
00:36:15 ◼ ► on it, you're going to give them and probably they're going to have to be integrated or you're
00:36:21 ◼ ► going to have to deal with talking the financial backer down, right? Like, I feel like this can't
00:36:27 ◼ ► be something that is completely unique. As you said, the article even cites that Netflix
00:36:32 ◼ ► struggled with this initially. I feel like this isn't, I feel like this is a fun story to write,
00:36:43 ◼ ► but I can only assume you could write this kind of thing about any movie that's ever been made.
00:36:48 ◼ ► Yeah, probably so, or at least a lot of them. I think, I think this story, so this story is
00:36:54 ◼ ► problematic because it's, it's very hard to judge. It feeds into existing narratives. It's from the
00:37:00 ◼ ► New York Post, which I don't find a particularly reliable news source and their tabloid. They are
00:37:06 ◼ ► going to hype it up as much as they can. That said, there is probably some truth in here.
00:37:12 ◼ ► It does reinforce the narrative that Apple may be putting a little bit too much control over this,
00:37:29 ◼ ► who are TV development executives, who are running this service, and one would hope that they're,
00:37:40 ◼ ► That's why they were hired, right? Like you would assume that Tim Cook and/or maybe Eddy Q knew that
00:37:47 ◼ ► for them to do this, they needed a buffer. They needed someone who could, people who could take
00:37:52 ◼ ► what they thought and translate it and vice versa, right? Otherwise, Eddy would have just done this
00:37:57 ◼ ► forever, right? They tried it and it didn't work. When they were really hands-on, you would assume,
00:38:03 ◼ ► in Carpool Karaoke and Planet of the Apps, those shows did not work. So you would assume that these
00:38:08 ◼ ► executives are smart enough to be like, "Oh, if we're going to do this seriously, we actually
00:38:12 ◼ ► need people who can sit in the middle of this and manage it for us." Also, the idea here that
00:38:16 ◼ ► what you said about like, "If it's my money, I get to have some say," they're trying to figure out
00:38:22 ◼ ► what this thing is, and they've got creative people making shows for a product they don't
00:38:28 ◼ ► know what the product is. They have so much on the line with this, right? Exactly. They spend a lot of
00:38:33 ◼ ► money and Apple are control freaks, right? They want it to be exactly what they want. You've got
00:38:38 ◼ ► a producer who maybe has gotten a brief, but then they see a script and they're like, "This is a
00:38:42 ◼ ► little bit off of what we were talking about," and there's some feedback there. I think that's kind
00:38:46 ◼ ► of natural. I get that it could be frustrating, but they do get a say. I think the post story
00:38:52 ◼ ► makes this like, "Many notes from Apple executives seeking family-friendly shows." Well, that might
00:39:02 ◼ ► Dial it back a little bit." Tim Cook is giving notes. It's possible that Tim Cook is literally
00:39:10 ◼ ► writing things down on scripts and saying, "Don't do this," although I'm really skeptical about
00:39:14 ◼ ► that. My guess is that it's notes on big concepts or on where they draw the line on certain things
00:39:21 ◼ ► in terms of the tone they want to set. The story says, "Oh, well, Cook has been seen on the set of
00:39:27 ◼ ► this show that they're doing in Vancouver Sea," which I think is the Jason Momoa show that has got
00:39:33 ◼ ► an enormous budget. It may be the most expensive TV show ever produced is the rumor that I'm hearing.
00:39:39 ◼ ► Well, of course he would go to the set, but that doesn't mean he's giving notes on the set.
00:39:45 ◼ ► That's not the same. I don't know. He's giving feedback on agent set of Cook. Oh, of course.
00:39:56 ◼ ► "I don't want you to say that bad word, Jason Momoa, on the set of Sea in Vancouver," but
00:40:13 ◼ ► They want to launch this thing, and they want to be proud of what they launch. If you've got a dog,
00:40:17 ◼ ► they know they're going to get beaten up if there's a lousy show that they launch with.
00:40:23 ◼ ► The stakes are high, but at the same time, they also hired the professionals to do this job.
00:40:26 ◼ ► That's the thing that makes me a little more queasy. Should Tim Cook or Eddie Q or somebody
00:40:34 ◼ ► else be giving notes, or should it just be the TV execs? I think ultimately there's going to be
00:40:38 ◼ ► some stuff. It's not going to be everything. They're not going to be looking at scripts,
00:40:46 ◼ ► It's also possible that they're good cop, bad copping them here. I don't know that for sure,
00:40:51 ◼ ► but when I think about Ehrlich and Van Amburg, the guys that they hired from Sony to do this.
00:41:00 ◼ ► Well, Sony sells Walkman, and they still sell Walkman, and they also sell TV executives,
00:41:05 ◼ ► apparently. Anyway, those guys, they rolled out their money and then they hired those guys away
00:41:09 ◼ ► from Sony. It's possible that those guys are... That Tim Cook has basically said, "This is Tim.
00:41:18 ◼ ► I can be the bad cop," kind of thing. Where it's like literally they use Apple as the bogeyman to
00:41:25 ◼ ► say, "Hey, friend, Ron Moore, we have some notes about this. Oh, Apple. Tim Cook made it clear to
00:41:35 ◼ ► us that this is a line we shouldn't cross." Even if they feel that themselves, there may be some
00:41:40 ◼ ► of that, but we have a great relationship, but don't blame us. That happens. As a parent,
00:41:52 ◼ ► Maybe there's some of that going on where Apple is the bogeyman and they're used as a kind of like,
00:41:59 ◼ ► "Oh, well, Tim's got his standards, but I'm working with you. I'm on your side and we'll
00:42:04 ◼ ► work it out." That's also possibly what's going on here. It's fine. I think every time we talk
00:42:09 ◼ ► about this too, we get people who say, "Who's to say that a show that's family-friendly or
00:42:13 ◼ ► don't have swearing or nudity or ultra-violence is fundamentally a bad show?" Some people don't
00:42:22 ◼ ► there are a lot of people in Hollywood who want to make shows where they can do whatever the
00:42:26 ◼ ► hell they want. We don't always get to do whatever the hell we want, but if you're an A-list person
00:42:33 ◼ ► who everybody wants to hire and Netflix doesn't care about the content of the show as long as it's
00:42:39 ◼ ► good. They don't care about the nudity and the violence. Have you ever followed one of Netflix's
00:42:44 ◼ ► Twitter accounts? They swear on the Twitter accounts. Netflix's brand is that there's no
00:42:50 ◼ ► limits for the stuff that they'll produce. If you're an A-lister, it's just easier to work
00:42:57 ◼ ► with somebody who is not going to bug you about items in your script that they think are too mean.
00:43:03 ◼ ► That's the deal here. Not that there can't be great content that doesn't have nudity and violence
00:43:10 ◼ ► and bad words. That's not the issue. All right, so let's talk a little bit about Marzipan.
00:43:17 ◼ ► All right, gear shift. I think it was last week or the week before there was the Mark Gorman report
00:43:23 ◼ ► kind of setting out the three-year plan that we're going to see. The Marzipan, you could call it.
00:43:29 ◼ ► Oh boy, the grand three-year marzipan. So Steve Trouton Smith has written a couple of blog posts.
00:43:42 ◼ ► Yes, they're wild because he's basically built some tools and exposed some stuff to enable iOS
00:43:49 ◼ ► developers right now to bring their apps over to the Mac in some form, which is using the technology
00:43:56 ◼ ► that is in Mojave that allows Apple to do it. So Apple have news and home and stocks and the voice
00:44:03 ◼ ► recording app. And so there is some underlying technology in the current shipping version of
00:44:08 ◼ ► Mojave, which allows these iOS apps to run on the Mac and through some incredible digging and kind
00:44:14 ◼ ► of reverse engineering, which is way over my head, Trouton Smith has created some tools. So of course,
00:44:21 ◼ ► James Thompson now has a working version of Marzipan Peacock. So James has taken the iOS
00:44:28 ◼ ► version of Peacock and has put it onto the Mac. And he posted a bunch of tweets of him doing this.
00:44:34 ◼ ► I'll put some in the show notes. And James says, and I think this is a really interesting point.
00:44:38 ◼ ► So this is something that he was tweeting. So this is just a proof of concept. I have no plans
00:44:42 ◼ ► to replace the current Mac version as soon as Marzipan is available. I'll only do it if and
00:44:47 ◼ ► when the app is better than the current native Mac one, because James has a Mac version of Peacock
00:44:54 ◼ ► that is running right now. And I'm wondering, Jason, do you think that that specific point is
00:44:59 ◼ ► going to be something we hear a lot of? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think this is the balance
00:45:06 ◼ ► that Mac developers who have existing Mac apps are going to have to deal with. The idea of,
00:45:11 ◼ ► I've been maintaining two different apps, which share code, but there's an iOS version and a Mac
00:45:16 ◼ ► version. And wouldn't it be great to have it just be one, but if I do this now, these things are not
00:45:22 ◼ ► going to be there and that's no good. And they're playing around with the Marzipan that is shipped
00:45:30 ◼ ► last fall and is not supposed to be used. So you can't really judge it for what it lacks because
00:45:37 ◼ ► there's a reason Apple didn't ship it to anybody else. And Steve Trotton Smith has figured out how
00:45:40 ◼ ► to make it work anyway. And it's fascinating just to look at it and see what the details are and the
00:45:46 ◼ ► the work you need to do in certain areas to add things to a toolbar or add pop-ups and how the
00:45:50 ◼ ► menu, you know, how you add menu items and things like that. But it's fun to see the details because
00:45:56 ◼ ► we're getting a little bit of a preview of what it might look in a final version, but you have to
00:46:00 ◼ ► make that decision. Like, do I want to take features away, take functionality away from my
00:46:04 ◼ ► users on the Mac just to make my life easier? I would hope that most people who are doing Mac apps,
00:46:09 ◼ ► especially long-standing Mac apps, will choose not to do that until there's probably a point where
00:46:15 ◼ ► the balance shifts. And it may not be possible with the new version that comes out. The first
00:46:20 ◼ ► wave may be apps that don't exist on the Mac or that are bad on the Mac. That's the other thing.
00:46:27 ◼ ► James actually has been doing Peacock on the Mac forever, like literally forever for as long as
00:46:34 ◼ ► I've known him. But there are also apps out there that are very much like, "Oh, I guess we'll do a
00:46:40 ◼ ► Mac app," and the Mac app doesn't really stand up to the iOS app. And those will be easier choices,
00:46:46 ◼ ► right, to say, "We can just put this on the Mac and we can solve this problem and it'll save us a lot
00:46:52 ◼ ► of effort." Plus, there will be iOS apps that can't come to the Mac right now. And Overcast is
00:46:57 ◼ ► an example we use where, you know, that moment where you realize, "Oh, Marco can write Overcast
00:47:04 ◼ ► for the Mac now because he doesn't have to write a Mac app. He can take his iOS app and just make it
00:47:08 ◼ ► a Mac app." That's exciting. But for James, I mean, I would say Marzipan will be a success
00:47:16 ◼ ► when developers look at it and say, "Yes, I can take my iOS app and make it as good or better
00:47:22 ◼ ► than my Mac app." But that may be a while. - I do think as well there could be, there's like a
00:47:28 ◼ ► good enough point, right? Like, I know you're right, that for a lot of people, for a lot of
00:47:36 ◼ ► people, that tipping point is going to be when it can be better. But I think for also another huge
00:47:41 ◼ ► bunch of people, it will be when it can be close enough. Like, when it can at least offer the
00:47:46 ◼ ► functionality that you need. It might not be as good as the Mac version currently is, but if it
00:47:51 ◼ ► allows you to be able to really streamline your development, maybe it will work better. And whilst
00:47:57 ◼ ► I know there's going to be a lot of frustration for people during this time period, I do think
00:48:03 ◼ ► that there is a better future for the Mac on the other side of this. It's going to shake up a lot
00:48:09 ◼ ► of what people think Macs are and what they look like and how they act, but it's going to breathe
00:48:15 ◼ ► a bit of life into the platform, I think. Like, new fresh life, which is going to be exciting.
00:48:18 ◼ ► So anyway, using Steve's tools, James was also doing some stuff with resizing the windows,
00:48:25 ◼ ► which I found very interesting. So he had the full iPad view, and then he could shrink it down,
00:48:31 ◼ ► and when he got it into a certain size, it kind of snapped into the iPhone-like split screen view.
00:48:42 ◼ ► what is this iPhone delay about? Like, why? So, Germin said that we're going to get this year will
00:48:50 ◼ ► be iPad apps, and then next year is iPhone apps. And I just feel like that makes it even more
00:48:55 ◼ ► confusing to me. Like, imagine if you can do this, right? Like, if you shrink the window, it just
00:49:01 ◼ ► switches over to your split screen view, right? So it's using the size classes, and once you hit a
00:49:06 ◼ ► different size class, if your iPad app observes it, it's just going to show the different size.
00:49:11 ◼ ► And it makes me question the iPhone thing. I think you just answered your question. I was going to
00:49:15 ◼ ► say this is a conspiracy theory, but I don't even think it counts as a conspiracy theory.
00:49:19 ◼ ► What makes something an iPad app and an iPhone app a universal app is its ability to be displayed in
00:49:27 ◼ ► different sizes. And I feel like what Apple may be doing here is, and this is the conspiracy part of
00:49:36 ◼ ► it, is saying, if you can't be bothered to make your app work at different sizes, it can't run on
00:49:42 ◼ ► the Mac because the Mac users demand the ability to resize apps. And if you use the size classes
00:49:47 ◼ ► and you've got it working on the iPad and the various different sizes of iPad, you're going to
00:49:51 ◼ ► be able to do it. And use it almost, I mean, through the lens of quality for users and user
00:49:58 ◼ ► expectations, basically crack the whip a little bit on developers who have not bothered to develop
00:50:03 ◼ ► an app that goes beyond the iPhone. Like, right? Like, this is your motivator. Like, you really
00:50:10 ◼ ► need to do that now. Like, this is the platform. You need to do it. We're not going to have a
00:50:16 ◼ ► situation where Mac users have this little thing that's shaped like an iPhone and can't be resized.
00:50:20 ◼ ► It's like, no, we're not going to do that. That may be the motivator here. Not a technical thing.
00:50:24 ◼ ► - But that's not going to change in theory, right? From year one to year two. And that's why it's
00:50:30 ◼ ► confusing to me. Like, what is going to happen in that time period for the iPhone apps to be good?
00:50:35 ◼ ► - What may happen is that they give a warning this year that says apps aren't going to be in the app
00:50:40 ◼ ► store if they don't do size classes next year. - Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. All right.
00:50:49 ◼ ► will be available. It's all apps will be available because all iPhone apps are universal. Oh, boy.
00:50:58 ◼ ► - Like, if you think about it, it's kind of amazing that Apple has allowed this to go on
00:51:02 ◼ ► where you can design these apps that will resize in the various sizes of iPhone but won't go beyond
00:51:08 ◼ ► that. And I could totally see them saying, you know, part of being on our platform now is having
00:51:13 ◼ ► the ability to have your apps dynamically resize for all sorts of different screens. And you need
00:51:19 ◼ ► to do that. Just like bottom line, you have to do that. - And if that happens, that's not only good
00:51:28 ◼ ► - I mean, it makes sense to me. I understand, you know, you may think, oh, my app is for iPhone.
00:51:35 ◼ ► It shouldn't, it wouldn't work very well on the iPad, et cetera, et cetera. I get that. But,
00:51:40 ◼ ► boy, that would be great, like, for users that you would be able to use these apps on all devices.
00:51:47 ◼ ► And again, I also understand the complexities of business models. And then you're offering one app
00:51:51 ◼ ► where you could have two apps to get all of it. But as a user, I would love that very much. And
00:51:58 ◼ ► then, you know, maybe this is where all the subscription stuff needs to play in more seriously.
00:52:08 ◼ ► yes, he's looking at Mojave marzipan, which don't have the Mojave marzipan, by the way,
00:52:13 ◼ ► it's made with sand. But he is giving us a view into what this is going to be like for developers
00:52:22 ◼ ► at a time when Apple doesn't want to talk about it. And so I find that that has a lot of value.
00:52:27 ◼ ► And his posts, which we will link to, are extremely technical. So if you're not a developer,
00:52:34 ◼ ► you will probably find, especially the one that's got all the giant code in it, to be hard to
00:52:40 ◼ ► understand. But the idea where he shows sort of like, here's how you take a basic thing and use
00:52:46 ◼ ► his tool called marzipanify to get it running on the Mac based on the iOS, you know, I think
00:52:54 ◼ ► simulator builds. And then the work you need to do as a developer to take it further so that it
00:53:01 ◼ ► becomes something that feels more Mac-like and that Apple has already in the marzipan that ships
00:53:06 ◼ ► in Mojave built those tools in. And presumably those will only get better. And that's what I
00:53:12 ◼ ► found fascinating about this is we get a little bit of a view into how Apple is building this system
00:53:18 ◼ ► that it's going to roll out this year in three months and say, this is how you build unified
00:53:23 ◼ ► apps on Mac and iOS and have them be Mac apps. Because I agree with you, I think this is
00:53:30 ◼ ► ultimately going to be good for the Mac because the alternative is completely static, like nothing.
00:53:37 ◼ ► And this is better than that. So yeah, so thanks to Steve Trout and Smith for doing these articles
00:53:44 ◼ ► and for inventing this marzipanify tool. And thanks to James Thompson for finally taking a
00:53:49 ◼ ► day and turning off system integrity protection on his iMac and building a Mac version of iPad or of
00:53:56 ◼ ► PCALC from the iPad version because that's fun. So you have to do you have to turn a system in.
00:54:05 ◼ ► but it sounds really scary. It's meant to. Yeah, I guess that's the point, right? If you don't want
00:54:12 ◼ ► someone to turn something off, give it like a horrifyingly scary name. Alright, today's show
00:54:16 ◼ ► is also brought to you by our friends over at Luna display. They are the makers of the only hardware
00:54:21 ◼ ► solution that will turn your iPad into a wireless display for your Mac, meaning that your second
00:54:26 ◼ ► display that was super portable can be with you anywhere and have basically zero lag and amazing
00:54:31 ◼ ► image quality. Setting up extra screens is a fiddly affair, but Luna display couldn't be easy.
00:54:36 ◼ ► You just plug in a lovely little dongle into your Mac and you're good to go. Everything works over
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00:54:45 ◼ ► or train or an automobile, you can just use a USB to connect them together. And you'll be able to
00:54:50 ◼ ► still take advantage of that multiple screen glory. It's super simple to get set up and then you'll
00:54:54 ◼ ► have your extra screen real estate whenever and wherever you need it. Luna display is a complete
00:54:59 ◼ ► extension for your Mac. It supports external keyboards, Apple pencil, touch interactions.
00:55:08 ◼ ► significantly reduced latency and a faster screen refresh rate. I absolutely love using
00:55:13 ◼ ► Luna display on my iPad. It makes Mac OS an app. Like I have all the power of Mac OS just at my
00:55:19 ◼ ► fingertips wherever I am in my home, because I have my Luna display plugged into a headless Mac mini.
00:55:24 ◼ ► And it just gives me the extra tools sometimes that I need to get something done. It allows me
00:55:30 ◼ ► to go in and easily manage my Mac mini, which is doing some home server like tasks for me at the
00:55:35 ◼ ► moment. So it's really, really amazing. Listeners of this show can get an exclusive 10% discount on
00:55:40 ◼ ► Luna display. Just go to l-u-n-a-d-i-s-p-l-a-y.com and enter the promo code upgrade at checkout. That
00:55:48 ◼ ► is Luna display.com and the promo code upgraded checkout for that 10% off. Thanks to Luna display
00:55:55 ◼ ► for their support of this show and all the relay FM. So let's talk about touch ID and face ID,
00:56:03 ◼ ► because the Galaxy S10, the reviews are out. Some of the reviews are out. There's actually
00:56:08 ◼ ► no embargo on the S10. So people can publish their reviews whenever they want to. And so there's been
00:56:14 ◼ ► a couple of reviews for the touch sensor and a couple of reviews against the touch sensor.
00:56:21 ◼ ► So we spent a little bit of time last week on connected, me and Federico talking about the
00:56:25 ◼ ► technology that is going into the S10. So this is a very different type of technology. It's called
00:56:32 ◼ ► ultrasonic fingerprint scanning. So the fingerprint sensor is embedded in the screen and it uses sound
00:56:39 ◼ ► waves to detect the fingerprint and unlock it. So what that means is you don't need to have any kind
00:56:46 ◼ ► of button or any kind of sensor. It's embedded into the screen. So you can just put it right
00:56:50 ◼ ► there behind the screen. And unlike some of the other in-screen fingerprint technology,
00:56:54 ◼ ► you don't need to shine any lights on it. You can actually unlock the phone while the phone screen
00:56:59 ◼ ► is off. So it's pretty cool. But there has been some reviewers that do not like this. And there's
00:57:06 ◼ ► been some reviews that do like this. And I find that particularly interesting. So I've already
00:57:10 ◼ ► a couple of quotes for you and we'll have links to these in the show notes. So Brian Chen at the
00:57:14 ◼ ► New York Times says, "My bumpy experience with the print sensor found up one conclusion. Face
00:57:19 ◼ ► recognition is a more convenient method for unlocking phones and Samsung is behind Apple
00:57:24 ◼ ► in this area." Samsung does have face recognition stuff, but it's not very good. And Dan Seifert at
00:57:30 ◼ ► The Verge says that the fingerprint sensor is not as fast or reliable as the traditional
00:57:35 ◼ ► capacitive fingerprint scanner on the back of the S9. "The target area for the reader is rather
00:57:39 ◼ ► small and I had to be very deliberate with my finger placement to get it to work." But then
00:57:44 ◼ ► I've seen a bunch of YouTube reviews. So from Jonathan Morrison at TOD Today, who shows you
00:57:48 ◼ ► can see it super fast and reliable. And Marques Brownlee MKBHD says that it is convenient. You
00:57:54 ◼ ► can unlock it when the screen is off. He shows some phones side by side and the S10 is unlocking
00:57:59 ◼ ► faster than them. It works with wet hands. I don't understand what's happening here. I'm seeing a lot
00:58:04 ◼ ► of conversation happening on Twitter between journalists. What it looks like is either there
00:58:12 ◼ ► are hardware quirks or this technology works better for some people than others. - And you
00:58:18 ◼ ► can throw into that personal preference too. - Yes, 100%. - My feeling here, listening to lots
00:58:25 ◼ ► of people talk about it and seeing lots of people write about it, is that they are... That some
00:58:32 ◼ ► people like fingerprint scanners more and some people like face ID more. And it's not a 100%
00:58:42 ◼ ► like, "Oh, this is better." And I would argue part of that is resistance to change. I'm sure there
00:58:50 ◼ ► are people who prefer putting digits into their phone than doing touch ID. Those people are...
00:58:55 ◼ ► Interesting. But I'm sure there were some, right? Where it's like, "I don't want to do the thing
00:59:01 ◼ ► where I touch the thing and hold my thumb there. I just put in the code and I go." There's gonna be
00:59:05 ◼ ► some of that. But I do believe that beyond that, there are things ergonomically, like some people
00:59:11 ◼ ► have issues with... Maybe their face ID scanning doesn't work as well. Maybe their face has
00:59:18 ◼ ► something that makes it less liable to lock or more unreliable. Maybe they have a particular
00:59:25 ◼ ► gesture that they got really comfortable with, like putting their finger or thumb on their phone
00:59:30 ◼ ► as they're taking it out of their pocket so that as soon as it's up, it's working. Whereas with
00:59:35 ◼ ► face ID, you have to lift it up and then it scans you and then it opens. I vastly prefer
00:59:43 ◼ ► face ID to touch ID, but at the same time, there's also a false dichotomy here because you could
00:59:53 ◼ ► offer both if you wanted to. Apple theoretically could use this technology, this ultrasonic scanner
00:59:58 ◼ ► technology, to put a fingerprint scanner under their screen and have face ID and let you choose.
01:00:17 ◼ ► - That is one of the things for me that really, really makes me miss, I should say, touch ID.
01:00:23 ◼ ► The way that all of the Apple Pay interactions are done. So I've been traveling this week,
01:00:28 ◼ ► so I've been getting lifts everywhere and stuff. When the Apple Pay thing comes up and I've got a
01:00:33 ◼ ► double tap and then look and wait for the animation, that's so much more cumbersome and slow than touch
01:00:38 ◼ ► ID used to be because the touch ID, you just touched it and it was done, right? That was it.
01:00:43 ◼ ► Because what is the action of me now reaching to press that side button? That is all I would have
01:00:48 ◼ ► needed to do is one of those taps and then it would have been completed. So this is like every
01:00:54 ◼ ► time using Apple Pay, every time you're buying something from the store, I use Apple Pay a lot
01:00:59 ◼ ► in London and it's much more frustrating to have to get the face ID stuff to work than it would be
01:01:06 ◼ ► with the touch ID because touch ID has just got to be in my hand. I don't have to have it in a
01:01:11 ◼ ► perfect view and when I'm walking through a train station, I'm not necessarily that keen or like
01:01:17 ◼ ► that it's not as easy for me to just put my phone in front of my face as it would have been before
01:01:21 ◼ ► to just touch the home button. I love face ID, it is amazing technology and it mostly works great
01:01:27 ◼ ► but it does still need ideal conditions. This device or this technology to be the best that
01:01:34 ◼ ► it should be, really this seems quite simple to me. If I can see my phone, it should see me.
01:01:46 ◼ ► I want it to be able to see me rather than me needing to position myself or position the phone
01:01:52 ◼ ► in such a way that it will unlock. Now I know that this stuff is like that idea is probably still
01:01:57 ◼ ► far away if it ever comes but that's the ideal and I feel like touch ID met its ideal, right?
01:02:06 ◼ ► And I think this is one of the things that makes people struggle with it. Touch ID got as good as
01:02:12 ◼ ► that can be. Face ID is not as good as it could be and I think this is where maybe there's some
01:02:19 ◼ ► people that are a little bit unhappy with it. Ideally, Jason, I would like to have both
01:02:23 ◼ ► technologies in an iPhone. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I don't miss touch ID at all but I get...
01:02:36 ◼ ► Yeah, I think that's right. It's not saying that face ID is bad. I love face ID. On my iPad,
01:02:41 ◼ ► it's incredible. I have no problems with it at all but on my iPhone, it's not perfect and some
01:02:52 ◼ ► Another point that Brian Chen made in his New York Times review is that when you talk to the
01:02:59 ◼ ► vendors about the security of these different techniques, it seems like face ID is way more
01:03:08 ◼ ► secure, that it's much harder to break than a fingerprint scanner. But we may be arguing about
01:03:17 ◼ ► ridiculously secure versus impossibly secure and that for most people it doesn't matter.
01:03:22 ◼ ► I do think though that what is really motivating, I think especially Chen but both those reviewers
01:03:30 ◼ ► who didn't like it, the Verge reviewer too, is this perception that using cameras and dot
01:03:39 ◼ ► projectors to scan your face is a good technology that Android phones and Samsung phones have not
01:03:47 ◼ ► bothered to implement. And basically Brian Chen's point was basically like, "Come on, Samsung,
01:03:54 ◼ ► just copy Apple." And I think that's not necessarily do away with the fingerprint scanner
01:03:59 ◼ ► as much as it is the face scanner that Android has is this ridiculous photo compare thing where
01:04:04 ◼ ► you can put a mask on or put a picture of somebody in front of the camera and it'll unlock. It's
01:04:09 ◼ ► really insecure. It's far less secure than the fingerprint scanner. And I think that's part of
01:04:14 ◼ ► the conversation here is literally just this face unlock feature that is kicking around is a joke.
01:04:22 ◼ ► And if you want to offer face unlock, you need to do the real thing, which is what Apple is doing
01:04:27 ◼ ► and not this really bogus thing that you're doing. But I agree in an ideal world, and of course,
01:04:33 ◼ ► each one of these things costs, costs in size and space and money, but that having multiple
01:04:41 ◼ ► authentication options available would be a good thing in the end because I do think I'm starting
01:04:48 ◼ ► to get the sense that there really are just people who prefer one and not the other. And now that
01:04:52 ◼ ► we've lived with it for a little while, it's not as much about, "I don't want to go to something
01:04:58 ◼ ► new. I'm familiar with the old." And quite honestly, the thing about the Samsung thing is
01:05:02 ◼ ► it's invisible. That's the amazing thing about it, right? Is that you just put your finger on
01:05:06 ◼ ► the screen and it unlocks. And we talked about that for Apple iPhones. They were trying that
01:05:10 ◼ ► for a long time and they decided not to bother with it and just to skip ahead to face ID. But
01:05:14 ◼ ► there is an argument to be made that we may have learned that it's better to have both. And if that
01:05:20 ◼ ► is the case, then Apple has to make a decision. - Technology, it looks super cool and also enables
01:05:26 ◼ ► other things. So Samsung's displays look amazing right now because they have those little, basically
01:05:32 ◼ ► the cutouts for the cameras, but you get bigger displays and there's no notch, right? If you don't
01:05:37 ◼ ► like the notch, you're going to be stuck with it on the iPhone for a long time because of face ID.
01:05:43 ◼ ► Samsung doesn't have to do that. - Yeah, but then again, if you're somebody who uses this,
01:05:47 ◼ ► as our chat room is pointing out right now, if you have gloves, for example, like face ID is great
01:05:55 ◼ ► and touch ID is the worst. - Yeah, of course. - That's a great example. - If you have your face
01:05:58 ◼ ► covered because it's also cold, well, you're still screwed, aren't you? Like I totally get the glove
01:06:03 ◼ ► idea, but there are many things, right? That go one way or another. And like there are pros for
01:06:10 ◼ ► touch ID and pros for face ID and there are cons of each. I will say one thing that has been,
01:06:14 ◼ ► this is like completely personal experiencing, which has been so strange. I gave my mom an iPhone
01:06:19 ◼ ► XR for Christmas. She has never complained to me about face ID and I can't believe that.
01:06:24 ◼ ► I was like very concerned about moving my mom from touch ID to face ID. No complaints, which I,
01:06:32 ◼ ► you know, that is a big win for me because I was like, this is going to be, that was the thing I
01:06:37 ◼ ► was mostly worried about, so this is going to be a disaster because she was so used to touch ID. She
01:06:41 ◼ ► had her iPhone 6 for years, a long time, right? Since the iPhone 6 was new up until last year.
01:06:46 ◼ ► But she seems to have gotten on board with face ID because it does work very well, right? - It does.
01:06:57 ◼ ► I actually think, you know, whilst I get the idea of like Apple would never bring back that
01:07:01 ◼ ► technology because Apple never go backwards, like I get that point. I don't know. I feel like there
01:07:07 ◼ ► could be some real, I feel like you could spin it as a benefit, consumer choice because the
01:07:12 ◼ ► technology is better. I don't think that is completely out of the question. - You could also,
01:07:16 ◼ ► this is just a wild idea I'm throwing out there, you could also use this to differentiate high-end
01:07:21 ◼ ► and low-end and put this technology under, you know, under your iPhone, you know, maybe not 10R,
01:07:33 ◼ ► And it would allow you to get rid of the buttons without having to add the whole face ID sensor
01:07:37 ◼ ► stack and you can make a cheaper phone. Maybe there's something there too, but I agree on the
01:07:40 ◼ ► high-end stuff. Why not load it in and just say, yeah, you get it all and you can use it either
01:07:45 ◼ ► way. I do think though, your point points out to ways that face ID is implemented on iOS that could
01:07:51 ◼ ► be better like that. Again, to come back to the Apple pay thing, like I get that Apple wants all
01:07:58 ◼ ► these verifications to go through by clicking the side button, but I'm with you. I think it's
01:08:07 ◼ ► clicking a hardware button makes you not miss tap and buy something you won't and all that. But like
01:08:12 ◼ ► it feels so much worse than the old approach where you just put your finger on the home button
01:08:31 ◼ ► it feels like to me like it could be better. And that's an area of friction in face ID that wasn't
01:08:35 ◼ ► there before. All right. This episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Eero.
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01:12:06 ◼ ► The lasers were the last couple of weeks were gearing up for a giant laser explosion apparently.
01:12:14 ◼ ► Sorry to all fans of this stupid ask upgrade lasers who wrote in to complain that I did not give
01:12:21 ◼ ► That's not stupid. I won't accept that. I won't accept that for one moment, sir. Not one moment.
01:12:25 ◼ ► First question comes from Todd. Todd wants to know, do you think the Apple TV service will have
01:12:32 ◼ ► a skip intro feature? And a bonus question to this, do we skip the intros on TV shows and Netflix?
01:12:50 ◼ ► If I'm binging a TV show, I'm not going to watch the intro every single time. If I'm watching four
01:12:55 ◼ ► episodes of a show in a row, I don't need to see the opening credits every time. I'm so sorry.
01:13:04 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean like, but you know, it, it, it also depends if the show has like a really good opening.
01:13:21 ◼ ► This is what I was going to say is it is not just about binging for me. Cause I don't do, I do. I am
01:13:27 ◼ ► of course, as, as some people know, a big fan of the slow binge, which is you watch like an episode
01:13:32 ◼ ► of the day. Slow binge. I've never heard you say that before. Oh yeah. That's I talk about it on
01:13:37 ◼ ► TV, Talk Machine all the time. Big fan of the slow binge. I am not somebody who's going to sit down
01:13:40 ◼ ► and watch four episodes of a show in a row. It's just never going to happen. I have other things
01:13:44 ◼ ► going on in my life, but I will, I will watch one or two and then like watch another one the next
01:13:49 ◼ ► day and another one the next day. And that's what I call the slow binge. I recommend it. In fact,
01:13:54 ◼ ► sometimes I will slow binge like two or three things at once. So I assemble a little lineup
01:13:58 ◼ ► of shows and I watched one episode of each every night. It's great. Anyway, be that as it may,
01:14:03 ◼ ► I think the other issue is what you hit on, which is some intros are good and some are long and
01:14:10 ◼ ► boring and I don't need to see them again. And that varies from show to show. There are shows
01:14:14 ◼ ► that I love that have boring intros, but there are also shows that have great intros and I watch it
01:14:19 ◼ ► every time and it gets me in the mood for the show. It really depends. Like I don't skip the
01:14:23 ◼ ► Game of Thrones intro, right? Because I love it. The music gets me excited and they show different
01:14:29 ◼ ► things on the map every time that they're little Easter eggs and like, that's great. But there are
01:14:34 ◼ ► other shows where, you know, it's the same every time and it's kind of long and it's really boring
01:14:38 ◼ ► and I don't particularly love the music and it doesn't get me into the show. And, um, and I,
01:14:44 ◼ ► I don't bother like, uh, Travelers on Netflix, which is a show I really like. Um, and that is
01:14:50 ◼ ► an opening sequence that I really don't like and it's super boring and I don't watch it. So, yeah.
01:14:54 ◼ ► J-Raff asks, do you think that an Airplay 2 dongle is still on the horizon for Apple? So this would
01:15:01 ◼ ► allow you to watch, uh, content from your device, like a Chromecast, for example. We spoke about
01:15:06 ◼ ► that before. Uh, well, I never thought it was definitely on the horizon, right? There was a
01:15:12 ◼ ► report that Apple was considering it, which is the weakest of Apple rumors. But we also spoke about
01:15:17 ◼ ► the fact that we thought it could happen, right? That we thought that it made sense. This was
01:15:24 ◼ ► M- Exactly, exactly. So my hope is that they will do something. Um, I'm not sure Airplay 2 dongle is
01:15:31 ◼ ► the way to go. I would really like it if they would just do a low cost thing that actually ran.
01:15:35 ◼ ► J-Raff asks, I would much prefer a cheaper, much, much cheaper Apple TV, like a Fire TV stick,
01:15:40 ◼ ► but I don't think it's going to be that if they do it. I think they're more likely to do a,
01:15:47 ◼ ► is a possibility. It also depends on how, what deals they're making with a third party hardware,
01:16:14 ◼ ► they're going to need to make that with third party hardware manufacturers, right? Not just TV people.
01:16:17 ◼ ► J- Yeah, exactly. M- Because, because it doesn't matter if Apple offers an Airplay 2 dongle or a
01:16:23 ◼ ► cheap Apple TV, if you can point at an Amazon Fire stick or a Roku, you know, little $35 Roku thing,
01:16:33 ◼ ► S- Our next question comes from Dan. Dan says, "I have a mid 2012 non-retina MacBook Pro with
01:16:39 ◼ ► four gigabytes of RAM and a spinning disk hard drive. It's getting pretty slow, but I don't
01:16:43 ◼ ► want to buy a new one just yet. It's only used for the homework for the kids. Would an SSD be
01:16:49 ◼ ► enough to boost its performance or would more RAM be the thing to give it a significant boost?"
01:16:53 ◼ ► I feel like an SSD, right? I feel like an SSD is probably going to be the thing you'll notice the
01:16:58 ◼ ► most. J- Storage is usually the limiting factor. I think an SSD is going to help you more. I think
01:17:09 ◼ ► S- Yep, I think so too. You know, it is an old machine, so it's still going to feel old in
01:17:15 ◼ ► places, but that, putting that, putting that SSD in it will be good. Didn't you do this? You do
01:17:20 ◼ ► this like your mom's laptop or something? J- Yeah, and then I sold it to a college student. Yeah,
01:17:24 ◼ ► I took her laptop and I pulled the old drive out of it. I put in, I did put in some more RAM,
01:17:28 ◼ ► but I also put in an SSD and it ran way better then because it was, even though it was an older
01:17:34 ◼ ► laptop, it was running on an SSD and it felt way faster. S- Oh, look at that. I just found
01:17:39 ◼ ► it on six colors, so I'll put it in the show notes so people can see that for reference too if they
01:17:42 ◼ ► want. J- Nice, good times. S- Nicholas asks, do you feel that the battery in your new iPad
01:17:46 ◼ ► Pros drains faster than the older ones? If so, could it be the Apple Pencil draining the battery
01:17:51 ◼ ► faster as it's constantly attached? I don't have noticed any battery changes. J- Me neither. S- And
01:17:56 ◼ ► I don't, and the Apple Pencil's battery would not be big enough to take a significant drain.
01:18:00 ◼ ► So if you're having issues, maybe you should take it and have Apple look at it. My iPad Pro
01:18:08 ◼ ► still gives me as much power as the old one did. So if you're seeing significant changes,
01:18:14 ◼ ► then maybe you need to get that checked out. And Gary asks, which would be better for video
01:18:19 ◼ ► editing? A 12.9 inch iPad Pro or a 13 inch MacBook Pro? The 15 inch is beyond my budget.
01:18:24 ◼ ► J- Well, at this point, I think my answer is the MacBook Pro because as much as I like the iPad
01:18:30 ◼ ► Pro, I think the MacBook Pro has- S- It has more options for software. J- Has tried and true video
01:18:36 ◼ ► editing options on there, and that's what you should go with. I would love to be able to say
01:18:40 ◼ ► that the iPad Pro is a straight up, well, either choice or pick between the two. But while there
01:18:49 ◼ ► are video editing apps on the iPad, I think you should get a MacBook Pro for video editing. I
01:18:54 ◼ ► wouldn't video edit on the iPad at this point. S- Maybe one day, but if you make that decision
01:19:00 ◼ ► right now, that choice is a MacBook Pro for sure. J- I think so. S- All right, that wraps it up for
01:19:05 ◼ ► this week's episode of Upgrade. Thanks so much to our sponsors, FreshBooks, Eero and Luna Display,
01:19:10 ◼ ► but mostly thank you for listening. If you would like to send in a question for us to answer at the
01:19:14 ◼ ► end of the show, just send in a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade, and then maybe we'll be
01:19:19 ◼ ► included for a future episode. But if you want to help open the show, the hashtag #SNELtalk is the
01:19:24 ◼ ► best way to do that. You can find us online. Jason is @jsnel, J-S-N-E-L-L on Twitter, and he's over
01:19:31 ◼ ► at SixColors.com and TheIncomparable.com. Find me on Instagram. I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. I'm on
01:19:37 ◼ ► Twitter there as well, too. You can find this show and many others at relay.fm/shows. I'm sure there
01:19:44 ◼ ► will be something else that you can pick. Jason, I know you host a download here on Relay FM. What
01:19:49 ◼ ► do you think is going to be coming up on download this week? J- Oh, whatever happens this week will
01:19:55 ◼ ► be on download this week. We don't even know yet because it's all about what happens this week.
01:19:59 ◼ ► I love that. This is the mystery, the mystery of technology news. But then what you will find on
01:20:05 ◼ ► download is not just Apple, you'll find stories about the whole technology industry. J- We spent
01:20:10 ◼ ► a lot of time on Android phones the last two weeks. S- Yeah, as you would, right? Mobile World
01:20:15 ◼ ► Congress, all that kind of stuff. So if you're looking to find out more about not just the
01:20:20 ◼ ► foldable phones, that's where you'll be able to find it. There on download here on Relay FM.
01:20:24 ◼ ► Thanks so much for listening and we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.
01:20:29 ◼ ► You know, if we were a Netflix show, this is the moment where the credits would zip into the