00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 231, and today's show is brought to you by TextExpander, Fresh Books, and Eero.
00:00:23 ◼ ► I have a Snell Talk question for you, Jason Snell, that was delivered to me via audio form
00:00:29 ◼ ► after we recorded Connected last week. Federico Viticci wants to know, "Jason Snell, do you
00:00:38 ◼ ► This is a fascinating philosophical question. I used to, back in the olden days, in the
00:00:46 ◼ ► olden days, when your Mac hard drive was on your desktop like everything else, by default.
00:01:06 ◼ ► Yeah, I used to do that. This is that thing, like again, like I know I'm a very iOS person,
00:01:24 ◼ ► So at some point, probably like a decade ago now, a few things. One, I don't actually have
00:01:30 ◼ ► my local hard drive icon on my desktop anymore. I don't do that. OS X, I think by default,
00:01:40 ◼ ► And then also in, when I was at Macworld especially, but it's true even now, but back at Macworld,
00:01:46 ◼ ► I would get, I'd have different computers at different times because I'm reviewing stuff,
00:01:50 ◼ ► so I would like migrate everything to, I cannot tell you how many laptops I used because I
00:01:54 ◼ ► would literally like, here's a new laptop to review, migrate all my stuff to that laptop,
00:02:05 ◼ ► there would be a new one and then I'd migrate to that. I did a lot of moving around of data
00:02:09 ◼ ► and I think partly it was that. Also, I started writing like little scripts and stuff where
00:02:15 ◼ ► you had to, we didn't have to. I was bad, because I'm bad at AppleScript, I would often
00:02:21 ◼ ► hard code my scripts to my file path and you don't have to do that. You can actually say
00:02:25 ◼ ► like the home folder. You can get your path and get what the volume is. But the combination
00:02:33 ◼ ► of those two things at some point I just decided, or those three things, the icon on the desktop
00:02:58 ◼ ► I think that makes perfect sense. So I'm over it. I choose to put my personalization schemes
00:03:10 ◼ ► iMac, parenthesis, nine, close parenthesis. It's not any of that, but the hard drive is
00:03:28 ◼ ► Well that's true actually. Yeah, this is going to be one of those things they just, it's
00:03:47 ◼ ► lot of things. What would they call it? Would they have it be different for every model?
00:03:54 ◼ ► Would it just be like Mac OS drive? I think they just decided it's a classic, it's been
00:04:00 ◼ ► there forever, and there's no reason to change it because by default nobody really cares.
00:04:06 ◼ ► And if you want to change it you can. So yeah, maybe it also gives me a little bit of nostalgia
00:04:30 ◼ ► Some summer intern was like, let's not call it Macintosh HD anymore, and then he worked
00:04:35 ◼ ► on that the whole summer and at the end they're like, yeah this breaks everything, sorry Billy,
00:04:40 ◼ ► I would like to thank Federico for his question. If you record a podcast with me and would
00:04:58 ◼ ► show. So I wanted to do some follow out because a lot of stuff happened last week but the
00:05:21 ◼ ► hear mine and Jason's thoughts about Apple's FaceTime bug and the Facebook Enterprise Certificate
00:05:28 ◼ ► thing. The Facebook thing, basically what happened has happened, right? Like it's resolved
00:05:35 ◼ ► now and the FaceTime bug has yet to be fixed but Apple apologized. That's effectively what's
00:05:42 ◼ ► And they turned off Group FaceTime entirely in the meantime until they fix it, which they're
00:05:49 ◼ ► So you know, there's episodes are there and they include most of, if not all of our thoughts
00:05:54 ◼ ► on those subjects but we just didn't think it was worth talking about them specifically
00:06:02 ◼ ► That's right, let the record show that these things had occurred. Yeah, my only thing I
00:06:13 ◼ ► thing happened where that story came out saying Facebook was distributing, using their Enterprise
00:06:18 ◼ ► Certificate, distributing apps to people outside of Facebook, non-Facebook employees and that
00:06:27 ◼ ► I saw a lot of people on Twitter and in Slack in various places say that Apple wouldn't
00:06:34 ◼ ► do anything about it. And I think that what's interesting about that is that it shows how
00:06:38 ◼ ► I think maybe beaten down a little bit but certainly cynical people are about how Apple
00:06:47 ◼ ► about how Apple is incredibly by the book sometimes when it comes to little developers.
00:06:56 ◼ ► changes that are ridiculous. I had a friend who was trying to release an app update and
00:07:01 ◼ ► wanted to mention that it fit the new iPhone sizes and the new iPhones had been announced
00:07:07 ◼ ► but not released yet and his update was rejected because you weren't supposed to mention unreleased
00:07:13 ◼ ► products even though they had been announced. It was like, we hear stories like this all
00:07:20 ◼ ► still hear them. And I think it's really interesting how it has gotten ingrained in a lot of people's
00:07:30 ◼ ► it's going to give big developers with power a pass. And I get that and yet when that was
00:07:37 ◼ ► going on I kept saying, "No, I think they're going to come down on Facebook here." Because
00:07:43 ◼ ► everybody hates Facebook right now. Facebook's in the news for doing bad stuff and it's very
00:07:50 ◼ ► on brand for Apple to say, "No, no, we care about this. You broke the rules and Facebook
00:07:54 ◼ ► is trying to steal people's data and we don't like it and we're going to put you down."
00:08:06 ◼ ► tea leaves there, it's like when? If there was never, when would there be a better time
00:08:12 ◼ ► to come down hard publicly on Facebook for some bad behavior it did? Now seems like the
00:08:17 ◼ ► perfect time and indeed it was and they did. And they also rebuked Google a little bit too.
00:08:23 ◼ ► And they didn't delete their accounts forever and remove Facebook from the App Store or
00:08:27 ◼ ► anything like that but they did do something and I'm not surprised that they did because
00:08:37 ◼ ► for what is perceived as a breach. More information hungry brokering happening by Facebook which
00:08:44 ◼ ► fits that narrative pretty well. Yeah, I think I kind of had two points on what you said
00:08:55 ◼ ► only really probably did something here because they had a convenient punishment for them,
00:09:00 ◼ ► right? Like if it wasn't a situation, if the situation was all they could do was remove
00:09:14 ◼ ► that situation that we would have seen them do anything. And the other is like how much
00:09:20 ◼ ► of a punishment was it really though? It was like two days and then they got their certificate
00:09:23 ◼ ► back? It was a slap on the wrist. It was a don't do this. It was at least a public slap
00:09:27 ◼ ► on the wrist which was a cool thing to do. And also it was sending the message that we're
00:09:30 ◼ ► not going to allow this to continue, right? Like you need to, because it wasn't just like
00:09:35 ◼ ► they slapped them on the wrist and then they turned everything back in two days. They slapped
00:09:38 ◼ ► them on the wrist and said that thing has to go away and it went away. And Google meanwhile
00:09:42 ◼ ► was like, "We have one of those two but it's done. Don't hurt us. Don't hurt us." And they're
00:10:06 ◼ ► Yeah. No, I'm sure that they basically said, "You're in violation. It's revoked." And then
00:10:10 ◼ ► at that point somebody at Facebook has to call Apple basically. And they're like, "We're
00:10:14 ◼ ► so sorry. We apologize. It won't happen again. This was a rogue group. We had no knowledge
00:10:19 ◼ ► of it. I'm shocked that there was gambling in this establishment." All of that. And then
00:10:23 ◼ ► that's a reference. And then Phil Schiller gets on the phone probably and is like, "Okay,
00:10:28 ◼ ► here's what's going to happen. We'll give this back to you but we're aware of everything
00:10:33 ◼ ► you register and whatever the conditions are. We'll be watching you. You can't ever do this
00:10:43 ◼ ► But it struck me, Facebook has power. And you're right, Apple's not going to shoot itself
00:10:53 ◼ ► said, even like I feel like Apple had the upper hand here because what's Facebook going
00:11:04 ◼ ► to do that. Besides which, there's the website. So you can use—I don't have Facebook on
00:11:14 ◼ ► So there are—I felt like, yeah, Apple ultimately doesn't want to be the phone platform that
00:11:19 ◼ ► doesn't have Facebook. But one, there's the whole web thing. And then two, Facebook also
00:11:49 ◼ ► Google was send a message like, "You need to police your own people." Because if this—I
00:12:08 ◼ ► Facebook employee who couldn't order their meal or get picked up from the bus or whatever
00:12:16 ◼ ► They became acutely aware of the things going on inside of their company because it impacted
00:12:23 ◼ ► So it was a good message, I'm sure. But I doubt literally anything will change for Facebook's
00:12:29 ◼ ► just general ways of doing business. Anyway, let's move on to Upstream. It was the Super
00:12:50 ◼ ► Yeah, I tend to watch the Super Bowl but just didn't this year for no specific reason and
00:13:14 ◼ ► was at Cal and he is from my place. He's from Marin County where I live. He grew up here,
00:13:31 ◼ ► and it's not in Berkeley. Anyway, but it was a lousy game. At least there were commercials.
00:13:51 ◼ ► soldiers. And they added this character that's like a knight who speaks in this weird process,
00:13:56 ◼ ► deep voice, who is, he's literally like Duffman. He is a laughable kind of character, but you
00:14:06 ◼ ► to the point where they, they, um, it's all about things that don't matter. And all the
00:14:11 ◼ ► marketing is also becoming like, we know that anybody who really cares about the flavor
00:14:20 ◼ ► their brand is for people who don't want fancy beer, for people who don't care what their
00:14:38 ◼ ► care, so drink it. But what they also do, because then how do you differentiate against
00:14:42 ◼ ► your competitors? And so they pick out things. So like famously one, one of these guys, uh,
00:14:48 ◼ ► was it Bud Light? It was somebody, uh, who was doing, um, who was saying, uh, our competitors
00:14:53 ◼ ► are made with corn syrup, but we're not, which is hilarious. Cause one of the competitors
00:14:56 ◼ ► then immediately on Twitter was like, we don't use corn syrup. What are you talking about?
00:15:00 ◼ ► And the corn growers got very angry with them and they're like, that's American corn. You're
00:15:09 ◼ ► my, my favorite is that the Coors Light ads are all about how they keep it cold. Everything
00:15:16 ◼ ► all if the beer remains cold in all of these points? And he says, no, that's marketing.
00:15:20 ◼ ► They, they refrigerate this place and do this all just for marketing so that they can say
00:15:35 ◼ ► They're really annoying. Um, and this, there was a new one and I was just rolling my eyes
00:15:51 ◼ ► Game of Thrones. Cause there's famously a jousting scene in an early, in the first season,
00:15:55 ◼ ► I think of, of Game of Thrones. And, um, and then he, the joust happens and the Bud Knight
00:16:14 ◼ ► doing Game of Thrones. That's really funny. And the large Knight leans down and rips the
00:16:24 ◼ ► is happening? At which point, uh, the dragon, one of the dragons from Game of Thrones appears
00:16:34 ◼ ► the text comes up saying, uh, the, the last season of Game of Thrones premiers, whenever
00:16:45 ◼ ► Budweiser to allow them to basically murder all of their characters and mock them in this
00:16:52 ◼ ► horrible way. But it was brilliant because, um, and my other commercial that I liked was
00:16:58 ◼ ► very similar in that you think you're seeing something, but you're not, you're actually,
00:17:02 ◼ ► you've been fooled into seeing something else. And I was congratulating myself on the fact
00:17:06 ◼ ► that they were making references to Game of Thrones and then it turned out, oh no, it's
00:17:17 ◼ ► annoying king and soldiers and, and the stupid Bud Knight being killed horribly in their
00:17:27 ◼ ► Journal, which I love because obviously HBO and, and, and as a Bush had to get together
00:17:32 ◼ ► to work on this, right? HBO's chief marketing officer, Chris Spadaccini said very clearly
00:17:46 ◼ ► we just hurt the Knight. Yeah. Like the Knight has to die because they're going up against
00:18:07 ◼ ► it. But so I love the idea of like, no, no, your character dies if we're going to be in
00:18:40 ◼ ► from commercial. And so it's like, we're back here and then it glitches out. Um, and says,
00:18:48 ◼ ► CBS is off the air and then, and you're, and then you hear this narration and you eventually
00:18:54 ◼ ► are on the field of an empty version of the stadium. Um, as Jordan Peele is walking down
00:19:02 ◼ ► the, uh, down the, the, the middle of the field, uh, and it's revealed that he is giving
00:19:12 ◼ ► which he opens and steps through and disappears, um, because it's the door to the Twilight
00:19:15 ◼ ► zone. And I thought that was just very well done because people didn't, unless you were
00:19:20 ◼ ► reading the news, people didn't know that CBS All Access was bringing back the Twilight
00:19:34 ◼ ► found that a lot that I am so, um, I am so tuned into ignoring commercials. And then during
00:19:43 ◼ ► matter because as soon as they go to commercial, my brain goes somewhere else. Cause I'm like,
00:19:51 ◼ ► reverse of that where it's like, Oh, Oh, the, the game's coming back. Oh, it's an ad. So,
00:19:56 ◼ ► so yeah, but I liked that. I liked that ad. I thought that was really appropriate in getting
00:20:05 ◼ ► So according to a report from the Information, Apple has been telling various studios and
00:20:10 ◼ ► networks quote, whose offerings will be available through their service to be ready for launch
00:20:15 ◼ ► by mid April. Now, so this is a report basically stating April is the date or within a few
00:20:23 ◼ ► weeks of April is the date for the launch of Apple's TV streaming service, which I think
00:20:28 ◼ ► is a date that me and you had pegged out like early spring. Um, it's funny because April
00:20:38 ◼ ► right? Like they're like sticking the knife in a little bit. Ah, here is ours. Now I want
00:20:47 ◼ ► lot of speculation from different people about what actually is going on here. And we're
00:20:53 ◼ ► going to get to a little bit more of that later on when we talk about Apple's Q1 results.
00:20:57 ◼ ► But so the idea of, um, net studios and networks whose offerings will be a part of this on
00:21:04 ◼ ► the face of it, make it sound like back catalog stuff, right? But that's not necessarily the
00:21:11 ◼ ► case, right? Based upon the kind of the information that we know about how this stuff works from
00:21:15 ◼ ► having followed it for so long that it might not be as clear cut as that. Yeah, I still
00:21:24 ◼ ► too. But who knows? But networks and studios are producing this content for Apple, right?
00:21:29 ◼ ► Like that. So, you know, it might just be like, here's the question of studios and networks
00:21:38 ◼ ► make content for clients and networks are the, are the broadcasters and really the studios
00:21:44 ◼ ► own the, own the rights. Although that's where it gets mixed up because a lot of times the
00:21:48 ◼ ► network is the studio and the rights are with both of them. So I think that this is going
00:21:59 ◼ ► it's all originals, original movies, original TV shows. We seem to be entering an era where
00:22:04 ◼ ► all the studios have their own owned and operated TV networks and all their owned and operated
00:22:09 ◼ ► streaming services, and they're not licensing content anywhere, but I wouldn't put it past
00:22:18 ◼ ► related to the material that they're putting on. So like, my example was like Ron Moore,
00:22:31 ◼ ► that? So that they could be like, you know, if you like the Ron Moore sci-fi show, check
00:22:36 ◼ ► out that we also have his Battlestar Galactica, something like that might be the case, but
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00:26:01 ◼ ► offer for upgrade listeners. Our thanks to Eero for their support of this show and RelayFM.
00:26:08 ◼ ► Apple's dramatic Q1 results. We were expecting them. We knew what they were going to be by
00:26:21 ◼ ► Okay. $84.3 billion in revenue down from $88.3 the year before. This was the stuff that we
00:26:28 ◼ ► kind of had an idea we knew was going to go wrong. But as it's worth pointing out, this
00:26:45 ◼ ► unit sales anymore, but we do have revenue figures. So services revenue is at $10.9 billion
00:26:54 ◼ ► up from $9.1. Wearable home and accessories, which is a new category, which was previously
00:27:15 ◼ ► This was Apple's best quarter for Mac revenue up 9% fueled by new Mac minis and MacBook
00:27:37 ◼ ► the highest growth rate in almost six years because of the new iPad Pros, which is fantastic
00:27:43 ◼ ► So we found out that if you release new products, you make more money. Turns out the Mac and
00:27:50 ◼ ► I guess the better they are, the more you'll make, right? Because we've seen new iPad Pros
00:28:09 ◼ ► and what the levels are for the Mac. Best quarter ever for Mac revenue is pretty impressive
00:28:17 ◼ ► The Mac's been around a long time and they've never sold as many dollars-wise Macs in a
00:28:26 ◼ ► And iPhone revenue is at $52 billion down from $61.1 billion, which is the third highest.
00:28:37 ◼ ► So it's the second highest quarter of revenue ever for Apple. But on iPhone revenue, it's
00:28:44 ◼ ► actually not only down from holiday 17, it's actually down from holiday 16 a little bit.
00:28:55 ◼ ► Myke, it's really reminding me of the year after the iPhone 6 came out. And I think there's
00:29:05 ◼ ► a lot here about buying cycles that goes beyond just sort of like iPhone up, iPhone down that
00:29:16 ◼ ► same phone. And it sold pretty well and enough to keep the sales growing and to have a record
00:29:39 ◼ ► 6s is that there was pent up demand for the bigger phone, the 6 Plus, and there was pent
00:29:52 ◼ ► year for both of those things. And then the next year was tough to live down as we lived
00:30:01 ◼ ► consecutive quarters because the year two didn't have the pent up demand and the phones
00:30:07 ◼ ► weren't as exciting. And so the 10s very much like that. What's interesting here is I think
00:30:16 ◼ ► that Apple said the 10r was their best selling phone and the 10s Max was their second best
00:30:23 ◼ ► selling phone. And what's most notable about those things is neither of those phones had
00:30:28 ◼ ► an analog last year. So they were both new that probably addressed some pent up demand,
00:30:39 ◼ ► had no choice if they wanted the 10, but the 10s Max fulfilled something that wasn't there
00:30:46 ◼ ► before. And the 10r obviously being not cheap but cheaper, bringing those 10 features down
00:30:54 ◼ ► into this price range that wasn't available last year. And those were the two best selling
00:31:05 ◼ ► that effect as well. It's not just the maturing of the smartphone market or they're related.
00:31:13 ◼ ► I think overall that when you have a new iPhone that looks new, that's appreciably new and
00:31:19 ◼ ► different and wasn't on offer last year, more people will buy. And as the life cycle of
00:31:26 ◼ ► a phone lengthens and you hold a phone even longer, you need a reason to get a new phone.
00:31:33 ◼ ► If your phone is still lasting but it's getting old, everybody's playing the do I sit out
00:31:37 ◼ ► this year or not game. And if there's something new like the 10r or the 10s Max, you say,
00:31:44 ◼ ► oh, okay, I'll jump in. If it's just, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who
00:31:52 ◼ ► buying a new phone every year is not something most people do anyway, of course. But I do
00:31:55 ◼ ► think that there's something more to that, which is also also it's an incremental increase
00:32:00 ◼ ► and therefore less exciting, which doesn't mean people aren't buying the 10s people coming
00:32:03 ◼ ► from the seven success six might be buying the 10s. But in terms of like the big volume
00:32:09 ◼ ► of like, oh, the phones are growing. You need kind of all of the things to align at once.
00:32:16 ◼ ► So my guess, my gut feeling here is that the 10r and the 10s Max actually helped this number
00:32:28 ◼ ► they used to do, which is just slightly advanced the ball in year two, you know, go from the
00:32:32 ◼ ► seven to the eight. It will, they added the 10 then, but go from the success to the seven,
00:32:49 ◼ ► where it's always got some model that is fresher so that even if they can't do a completely
00:32:55 ◼ ► refreshed line every year, which I know I'm not sure they're capable of completely refreshing
00:32:59 ◼ ► it where they all like look different and are different sizes. Like I don't think that's
00:33:08 ◼ ► you know, make sure that there's something, there's always something intriguing and new
00:33:11 ◼ ► and interesting in the product line for people who are waiting for and looking for a reason
00:33:17 ◼ ► Yeah, but as we know, and we're going to talk a little bit about later on today, we're not
00:33:22 ◼ ► going to see that in 2019 because it's too late, right? Like they definitely found this
00:33:38 ◼ ► because it just feels like it would be way too late in the development of the 2019 iPhone
00:33:42 ◼ ► before they could have made that decision. Like that, that product must have been pretty
00:33:47 ◼ ► much locked down from a hardware design perspective when they found this information out, which
00:34:02 ◼ ► that about the, um, the 10 R and the max being like a pent up demand type thing, right? Like
00:34:07 ◼ ► even maybe hiding the crimes more, even though it already looks bad, right? But like if they
00:34:13 ◼ ► would have had the 10 R and the max last year that this year could have been a real, real
00:34:19 ◼ ► disaster, right? Like if they, if they only had iterations or if they didn't do the max
00:34:30 ◼ ► whatever they were at, I can't even remember the numbers anymore. It feels like so long
00:34:33 ◼ ► ago that maybe it would have been even worse for them than it ended up being. Um, at the
00:34:40 ◼ ► end of last week's episode, we, we, we both predicted that they would say more about their
00:34:49 ◼ ► were a couple of quotes of interest. So Apple spoke about working with TV manufacturers
00:34:54 ◼ ► and the reason that they're doing this and integrating AirPlay and or content into these
00:34:59 ◼ ► TVs is because they want to make it easier for their customers to consume the video that
00:35:14 ◼ ► and on that, the Apple spoke about trying to push more on selling third party TV services.
00:35:19 ◼ ► And I wonder what that means. My read on this, Jason, is either damage control or response
00:35:27 ◼ ► to Netflix pulling out. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of business model changes
00:35:33 ◼ ► from Apple for this type of content, um, going forward that maybe they want to try and do
00:35:37 ◼ ► something to bring Netflix back and, and stop other people from wanting to do this type
00:35:42 ◼ ► of stuff to leave the app store for subscriptions. Well, yeah, for subscriptions is the key there.
00:35:47 ◼ ► It's just, it's not leaving the app store. It's just leaving the app store for subscriptions.
00:36:02 ◼ ► be in our TV app because this is where, um, this is where everything is going to be. It's,
00:36:08 ◼ ► it's basically saying, forget this app store stuff on Apple TV. Uh, what it's really about
00:36:18 ◼ ► you want to be in there with all of the other stuff. And, and, uh, you want to let, let
00:36:22 ◼ ► us be a, you be a reseller and sell, uh, your subscriptions there. Um, and maybe there's
00:36:29 ◼ ► a deal that goes with that where it's a dramatically increased percentage of that Apple takes as
00:36:33 ◼ ► a reseller of, uh, of channels. Um, I don't know, I don't know. It, cause when you think
00:36:38 ◼ ► about it, I mean, even if there's an app behind the scenes, um, that's doing it, living in
00:36:43 ◼ ► the TV app is a little bit different than living in the app store and selling a subscription
00:36:46 ◼ ► in the TV app maybe is a little bit different too. So, um, I'm sure that they're going to
00:36:56 ◼ ► about in there was just his, I think, restating of something that he said before, which is
00:37:01 ◼ ► the idea that we are undergoing a shift in how people, um, how, I mean, it's huge changes
00:37:09 ◼ ► in customer behavior. He said that will accelerate as the year goes by to the breakdown of the
00:37:18 ◼ ► place at a much faster pace this year. So we're going to participate in that in a variety
00:37:24 ◼ ► of ways through Apple TV, airplay too, as you pointed out, he says to the analyst, we've
00:37:35 ◼ ► uh, that's going to accelerate in the future, he says, and then original content, we will
00:37:40 ◼ ► participate. I'm not going to extend that conversation beyond that point. We hired some
00:37:43 ◼ ► great people and they're working really hard, which he said before. So, but I like that
00:37:52 ◼ ► one they've done before. Yes. Cause we already mentioned Oprah so that they mentioned Oprah
00:37:56 ◼ ► again cause you gotta just keep mentioning Oprah. Uh, the, uh, but that I like that cause
00:38:00 ◼ ► he sketches out like, like we're doing all of these different things in this area because
00:38:03 ◼ ► we do think that this is a, uh, an opportunity because of the huge changes in customer behavior
00:38:08 ◼ ► and he's not wrong. Whether Apple can ultimately capitalize it on it is a, an open question,
00:38:17 ◼ ► interesting that he believes it will accelerate as the year goes by. Uh, I think that's also
00:38:35 ◼ ► happen really fast. So, uh, Apple will participate, but beyond that, they're not talking. Yeah.
00:38:49 ◼ ► were going to start saying, you know, be in the TV app, like don't worry about your app
00:38:58 ◼ ► doesn't have apps. It has TV and it has the iTunes store and you can sign up for Netflix,
00:39:11 ◼ ► they're putting a lot more emphasis on the idea of being an over the top cable provider
00:39:24 ◼ ► they're using, like way more focusing on like, we're going to help third party sell their
00:39:38 ◼ ► it quite nicely. So like, so if you take everything they said, put it all in one place, speed
00:39:48 ◼ ► and movies. We're going to add our own and make sure you can watch it anywhere you want.
00:39:59 ◼ ► feel like I have a great handle on if or what they're going to change in that to make it
00:40:13 ◼ ► they do there, but we learned a bunch of other stuff from the call. So a couple of things
00:40:18 ◼ ► on pricing, obviously pricing, something that a lot of people thinking about right now.
00:40:23 ◼ ► Pricing is a reason that a lot of people saying Apple maybe missed the mark here in some areas.
00:40:34 ◼ ► iPhone eight and entry iPhone eight plus had been priced. So Tim Cook, this is a Tim Cook
00:40:40 ◼ ► quote says actually a pretty small difference in the United States compared to last year.
00:40:45 ◼ ► Uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah, this is, I, I, I literally asked him, um, point blank in the Q and a,
00:40:59 ◼ ► took most of the call just reading their statements, their prepared statements. So there was a
00:41:08 ◼ ► that's telling to somebody should chart how much time they take with their prepared statements.
00:41:13 ◼ ► That would be a funny thing to do and correlate it with the earnings with the results. Sure.
00:41:34 ◼ ► that. He didn't, he said, no, it's fine. He said, and his re his logic was, uh, poor I'll
00:41:42 ◼ ► say, cause what he said was, well, you know, the tennis is priced the same as the 10. She's
00:41:51 ◼ ► on sale last year. So, uh, you're, you just kicked that back a year, but it's still, let's
00:42:00 ◼ ► than that. And then he moved on and I'm like, but okay. So you just said, uh, that doesn't
00:42:06 ◼ ► answer like the pricing. It's like, yes, it's more, it costs even more than the phone you
00:42:09 ◼ ► introduced last year, which was the most expensive iPhone ever. And then on the 10 R he gives
00:42:25 ◼ ► eight itself was more expensive than the seven. And of course the eight was cheaper than the
00:42:32 ◼ ► 10 R, uh, because people don't buy an average price. They buy a phone one or the other.
00:42:38 ◼ ► And that was his best way of trying to explain the 10 R being a low price phone is that it
00:42:42 ◼ ► was basically between the eight and the eight plus. And this is a non-answer. It's obviously
00:42:48 ◼ ► a coach non-answer. It is his way of saying, we're not going to change the prices. We think
00:42:53 ◼ ► that they're great. Um, in a, in a way that is just kind of, uh, it's like nonsense marketing
00:42:58 ◼ ► words. And, uh, I was a little disappointed cause I just rolled my eyes. It's like, come
00:43:01 ◼ ► on man. Just, uh, say that they're, they provide value and they, you know, the sales in the
00:43:13 ◼ ► overseas in a lot of places, a lot of territories with this, because in addition to the high
00:43:16 ◼ ► prices, I will say that he won't say of these phones, uh, there were foreign exchange issues,
00:43:22 ◼ ► which made them even more expensive than they were last year, even by Tim's, uh, comparison
00:43:26 ◼ ► with the iPhone 10 and in a little bit of an announcement, I think, I don't think Apple
00:43:31 ◼ ► had said this somewhere. They were, they were actually undertaking some repricing in different
00:43:35 ◼ ► markets, uh, in January in order to get the prices to be close to, or to match what the
00:43:43 ◼ ► price was last year, which is basically that they were eating into their margin or they're
00:43:47 ◼ ► eating some of that foreign exchange consequence in order to get the phone this year to cost
00:43:58 ◼ ► too strong. I have not been able to find any evidence of price changes. I've spent some
00:44:05 ◼ ► time looking for this today. Um, I don't know if they are available to people yet. It may
00:44:10 ◼ ► not be. Yeah. And Tim's view of what happens in January might be, we agreed to do it, but
00:44:14 ◼ ► who knows if it's actually been done. Cause I can't find it, but that's what they're talking
00:44:18 ◼ ► about. The idea that if you're in some territory where, where, you know, it used to call cost
00:44:23 ◼ ► X of whatever your currency is last year and then like for the 10 and then the 10 S comes
00:44:28 ◼ ► out and it costs X plus some number and you're like, Oh my God, they raised the price and
00:44:32 ◼ ► they did it because of foreign exchange. It might be that they go back to X or close to
00:44:37 ◼ ► X, uh, in the near future. Um, because they do believe that that was a drain. So basically
00:44:44 ◼ ► the U S it's priced fine according to Apple, but it's just everywhere else where you take
00:44:49 ◼ ► Apple's high prices and then you add on foreign exchange that it's too high priced. Apparently
00:44:59 ◼ ► reduced the original iPhone's price. Uh, remember that? Like if you bought the iPhone, they
00:45:05 ◼ ► gave people gift cards. I don't know if it's the full value or like, no, I don't remember,
00:45:13 ◼ ► gift cards. I sincerely doubt that we're going to get gift cards in Europe for expensive
00:45:18 ◼ ► iPhones. Um, so one of the reasons that they spent talking some time about why iPhone sales
00:45:29 ◼ ► a negative turn into a positive. I'll read a quote from Tim. Some people hold on to those
00:45:38 ◼ ► there should be redistributed to someone else. The upgrade cycle has extended. There's no
00:45:42 ◼ ► doubt, no doubt about that where it goes in the future. I don't know, but I'm convinced
00:45:46 ◼ ► that making a great product that is high quality is the best thing for the customer and we
00:45:50 ◼ ► work for the user and so that's the way we look at it. Now, whilst this is bad for Apple's
00:45:57 ◼ ► earnings, if they do genuinely believe this, which I believe that they do believe it, and
00:46:01 ◼ ► if they don't change anything because they, you know, because of these results changing,
00:46:11 ◼ ► It is, I feel like it's Apple kind of surfing with the conditions or maybe it is, I don't
00:46:23 ◼ ► look, the upgrade cycle is extending, right? So what does Apple do? And I think the argument
00:46:28 ◼ ► here is that Apple would much prefer if everybody bought a new phone every two years and the
00:46:33 ◼ ► old cellular plans in the US at least, basically when you got to the end of your second year
00:46:38 ◼ ► with your phone, you were throwing money away if you didn't get a new phone. You essentially
00:46:46 ◼ ► funding your phone. You were just paying it and it was just profit for the carrier. That
00:46:51 ◼ ► used to be how it worked. It was ridiculous. And as a result, like with all those two-year
00:46:56 ◼ ► cycles, everybody would get a new phone every two years. Well, that's not happening anymore.
00:46:59 ◼ ► There are a bunch of other places with subsidies like Japan where it's going away. It's going
00:47:15 ◼ ► "If the average phone is being used for three or four years or five years, here's what we
00:47:30 ◼ ► to be our customer, they stay in our ecosystem, and ultimately they get a new phone when they're
00:47:43 ◼ ► the belief that it is the right thing to do, that they didn't come on the line with the
00:47:47 ◼ ► analysts and say, "Well, our goal is to make our phones break after a year and a half so
00:47:52 ◼ ► that people just have to buy a new phone. We're going to make them as poorly as possible
00:48:00 ◼ ► Apple has made it, that if you make the phone really bad and it breaks really soon, why
00:48:04 ◼ ► would they come back to you? Why would they not go to a competitor? So I don't think this
00:48:08 ◼ ► is Apple's great largesse in saying, "Hey, everybody, stop buying iPhones so often. You
00:48:13 ◼ ► don't need to do that. It's wasteful." That's not what they're saying, right? They're saying,
00:48:16 ◼ ► "Oh, you're buying them less often. We need to change our approach here." And that approach
00:48:29 ◼ ► put more expensive parts into them, and they're going to make the OS survive on old hardware
00:48:40 ◼ ► a strategy borne out of the fact that buying cycles are lengthening and not trying to create
00:48:56 ◼ ► we hear these numbers every now and then thrown out at WWDC. They use a version of these numbers
00:49:07 ◼ ► how often we're going to hear about this. This is not a thing we're going to hear about
00:49:26 ◼ ► Well, so here's the thing. So they gave a global install base, and I think they've talked
00:49:31 ◼ ► about iOS install base before. They have not talked about iPhone install base on its own
00:49:36 ◼ ► before. This is a new number, and they said we will... This is their throwing a bone to
00:49:50 ◼ ► a made-up number. It's probably not a made-up number because they get the... All iPhones
00:50:01 ◼ ► a number of active iPhones that they can measure. We always used to estimate the Mac install
00:50:13 ◼ ► the size of the market was, and for advertising they would do that. And I always felt like
00:50:19 ◼ ► it was kind of made up because you're basically trying to do some math about, "Well, how long
00:50:50 ◼ ► - Yeah, well, yeah, next year or two, like I said, I think if it grew 75 million in the
00:51:00 ◼ ► - Very true. So they said it's up year over year in all markets, which, I mean, at first
00:51:07 ◼ ► glance I was like, "Huh, really?" But then it's like, "Oh, well, yeah, of course," because
00:51:15 ◼ ► not only, but a larger amount of people that are buying them are probably new iPhone users.
00:51:20 ◼ ► - Yeah, so how do you show growth if your year over year growth isn't going up and your
00:51:25 ◼ ► buying cycle is extending? And the answer is, quote the installed base, because if that
00:51:34 ◼ ► happening is people are keeping their iPhones and then they're selling new iPhones, but
00:51:37 ◼ ► people are also, a lot of people are keeping their iPhones and then they're more net iPhones
00:51:50 ◼ ► people are all theoretically eligible to be paying Apple money for services as well. But
00:51:55 ◼ ► it is also the, maybe not the last refuge, but a refuge of a company that can no longer
00:52:00 ◼ ► point to sales figures or even right now revenue figures and show growth on their most important
00:52:09 ◼ ► - So China, China's a problem for them right now and it's gonna be a problem for a while,
00:52:14 ◼ ► I think. Apple have put so much effort into China, like even in the hardware, they created
00:52:20 ◼ ► the dual SIM for China. They've put, but they're not reaping the rewards right now. It's down
00:52:32 ◼ ► numbers don't add up. I still don't get that idea of where they said in that press release,
00:52:44 ◼ ► - But the iPhone still would have been down because the iPhone was down like $9 billion.
00:52:50 ◼ ► So anyway, so yeah, like sure. I feel pretty vindicated in that, right? 'Cause it was like,
00:52:58 ◼ ► it didn't feel right when they said that in that press release. And it's like, yeah, maybe
00:53:07 ◼ ► struggling, which means the iPhone's issues extended beyond China, right? This was something
00:53:13 ◼ ► that we believed, and that is confirmed now, that the iPhone's issues were not just a China
00:53:18 ◼ ► problem. It was an issue in many other places. So yeah, we can see that now 'cause we have
00:53:25 ◼ ► those numbers, but that is continuing to be an issue for them. It's probably gonna continue
00:53:30 ◼ ► to be an issue for them, which is I expect why, guidance for Q2, they are gliding another
00:53:50 ◼ ► their guidance down, right? Like we had a record loss with this quarter where it's like,
00:53:55 ◼ ► oh, and they had to adjust it. The next one is like, oh, guidance is down. Carolina Milanese,
00:54:00 ◼ ► who is a frequent contributor to the download podcast on Relay FM, predicts that this is
00:54:11 ◼ ► is launched, Carolina believes that this might be something saying that it could be US only
00:54:18 ◼ ► - I don't think appreciable TV service revenue is gonna happen this quarter regardless of
00:54:21 ◼ ► when they launch it because they'll probably do it with a free trial. So there'll be no
00:54:26 ◼ ► - And the reports are that they're gonna launch it quickly elsewhere, and I tend to believe
00:54:30 ◼ ► that because they're probably, the contracts are probably in place that they own worldwide
00:54:33 ◼ ► rights to all this stuff. And we'll just, it's just a matter of rolling it out and maybe
00:54:36 ◼ ► marketing it in different countries. And also if there are different laws in different countries
00:54:41 ◼ ► about like having local content and things like that, if they've got some European content
00:54:45 ◼ ► coming a little bit later, they might wait to launch it in Europe until that comes out.
00:55:05 ◼ ► and they're not gonna have new, probably new Macs in this quarter, maybe new iMacs or something,
00:55:10 ◼ ► but like this quarter is already a month gone. And so those numbers are probably going to
00:55:16 ◼ ► recede a little bit and then the iPhone is gonna stay down and that means they're gonna
00:55:19 ◼ ► be down year over year. So it's not surprising. Of course, from a Wall Street perspective,
00:55:35 ◼ ► watch about whether they're sandbagging this a little bit and it actually ends up better
00:55:39 ◼ ► or whether they are really trying to hit what they actually think it's gonna be. It would
00:55:48 ◼ ► I would be shocked if they are guiding this accurately. I mean, they like at least just
00:55:58 ◼ ► eek over that, right? Like they're just on the top end or just above the top end of their
00:56:09 ◼ ► of that guidance, you would hope. But they guided wrong last time. So we'll see, right?
00:56:22 ◼ ► However, even though this is a quarter full of drama, Apple feel real good, right? They
00:56:32 ◼ ► Tim's very bullish that Apple innovates like no company on earth. They're not taking the
00:56:36 ◼ ► foot off the gas. They're confident as ever in the fundamental strength of the business.
00:56:53 ◼ ► exactly what he should have said, which is we're not taking our foot off the gas. We'll
00:57:01 ◼ ► as a result. And this is the thing that baffled me about all that talk about like, "Oh, Apple
00:57:07 ◼ ► is doing hiring freezes and reducing staff and limiting their hiring because they think
00:57:11 ◼ ► there's going to be a recession." It's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Apple has all
00:57:14 ◼ ► the money." Apple does exactly what Tim Cook says here is you got the money, you keep investing,
00:57:20 ◼ ► your competitors are getting hit by the headwinds, you get to go push through it. And when the
00:57:25 ◼ ► wind shifts later, "Oh, you've been working on all this stuff in the meantime." And everything
00:57:40 ◼ ► you can go harder and faster than ever before, right? Like this has got to be the way that
00:57:47 ◼ ► they roll, right? Like you can only naturally assume that because otherwise, what are you
00:57:53 ◼ ► doing with the money, right? Like what are you doing with it? If you're not buying companies
00:57:58 ◼ ► with it, like huge companies with it, you're just sitting on it, you've got a war chest.
00:58:02 ◼ ► This is what the war chest is for. It's for war, right? Like war is high austerity. That's
00:58:08 ◼ ► Exactly. There is nobody, I think, demanding that Apple demonstrate for show that they're
00:58:14 ◼ ► concerned about the economy, right? Like you should lay off some people just so it makes
00:58:22 ◼ ► no. Hire all the laid off people. Exactly right. And you get them working on your stuff
00:58:31 ◼ ► come out stronger. And that is what Tim Cook went out of his way during the analyst call
00:58:36 ◼ ► to say that. And I thought that was good because that's again, yes, that's what Apple should
00:58:40 ◼ ► be doing here is just keep on you invest through the downturn or as he said, through the near
00:58:53 ◼ ► I knew this was going to be a dramatic quarter and it was right. Like as soon as we got that
00:58:58 ◼ ► news and you, it's going to be fun to talk about. And, and I had fun talking about that.
00:59:01 ◼ ► I now can't wait for the next one. I'm really excited now. Uh, what is it? What is it going
00:59:12 ◼ ► episode is also brought to you by TextExpander from our friends at Smile. Copy and paste
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01:01:16 ◼ ► Now we very, I mean I kind of make it a policy to not talk about patents in general because
01:01:25 ◼ ► But this one is funny to me. It's keyboard, keyboard patent where either Apple's trying
01:01:32 ◼ ► to A, find a solution or B, flip the bird at everybody by patenting a solid glass keyboard
01:01:46 ◼ ► Yeah, it's not, it's not quite, they already, in fact I wrote an article about this last
01:01:50 ◼ ► year I think at Macworld, we can put it in the show notes, about them patenting basically
01:01:56 ◼ ► the touch bar except it's the whole keyboard. And this one is a little different in that
01:02:08 ◼ ► It has a little flexibility to it too apparently and I'm sure uses the force touch technology
01:02:16 ◼ ► I'm sure that and there was some speculation that ultimately it might be something where
01:02:21 ◼ ► they could put a display underneath it where you know you could remap the keys and they
01:02:25 ◼ ► could change in context and all of those things while still offering kind of physical things.
01:02:28 ◼ ► And this, if you look at that patent too, clearly somebody at Apple and who knows where
01:02:40 ◼ ► essentially touchscreen technology and merging it with keyboards. And the first attempt was
01:02:45 ◼ ► their big touch bar that was a whole keyboard. And this one seems to be well we need to be
01:02:51 ◼ ► People need to be able to feel where the keys are. They need to be able to press down and
01:02:54 ◼ ► feel some sort of feedback. And you know the reason we mentioned patents, because patents
01:02:59 ◼ ► are silly right? Like patents can be totally what Apple's doing and it can be a thing that
01:03:04 ◼ ► Apple's totally not doing but that they invented so they're going to patent it because why
01:03:07 ◼ ► not? That's how patents work. It's not a product rumor. It's something completely different.
01:03:14 ◼ ► But everybody's angry about, well not everybody, but lots of people are angry about keyboards.
01:03:20 ◼ ► Lots of people are already freaking out in the chat room as well. But we're here I think
01:03:32 ◼ ► Okay. I'm not. I'm going to ruin this. So you go first and then I'll ruin what you say.
01:03:37 ◼ ► Please everyone calm down. I think that this is a good thing. Now let me tell you why before
01:03:42 ◼ ► you tweet at me and tell me how bad it would be for a touch typist. This patent I believe
01:04:12 ◼ ► about how can we make our keyboard problems better. Like what can we do to stop dust from
01:04:17 ◼ ► getting it under the keys. Well what if there was no under the keys. That's interesting.
01:04:26 ◼ ► and then they clock it away and they maybe never come to it again. But I think what it's
01:04:29 ◼ ► showing is that they are talking about the keyboard issue. It's better to see stuff like
01:04:35 ◼ ► this for them to go nah it's good. I think that this is a whilst wild idea. It's probably
01:04:48 ◼ ► is a future computer product right. Like the idea of this plane. This is I look at this
01:04:54 ◼ ► as like that seems interesting but seems so futuristic in what they would need to build
01:05:03 ◼ ► you'd get something like this which means is probably for some other touch based product
01:05:14 ◼ ► It seems like it's probably not anytime soon. But I think what it shows is people are trying
01:05:20 ◼ ► to get together to talk about changing their keyboards. Try and see the silver lining hopefully
01:05:31 ◼ ► somebody some group at Apple is trying to think about the keyboard and there's no doubt
01:05:37 ◼ ► that Apple has heard that this keyboard is a problem from users. They've seen the issues.
01:05:48 ◼ ► that they're going in a different direction. What is interesting to me about this is that
01:05:59 ◼ ► one you know do you go left or right. One direction is you know what we got to go backward.
01:06:06 ◼ ► I know that Apple hates going backward but like our old keyboards were pretty good. We've
01:06:11 ◼ ► learned some things about designing this keyboard that we can apply to a new keyboard but what
01:06:16 ◼ ► we what we've learned is people want you know people people are concerned about the the
01:06:26 ◼ ► and then they're also you know there's this feeling about about travel and sound and we've
01:06:31 ◼ ► done better because I do believe that third generation keyboard actually is way better.
01:06:36 ◼ ► They have improved it a lot in terms of sort of getting the balance of it. It sounds like
01:06:40 ◼ ► things are happening when you press keys but it's also not crackling like like some some
01:06:46 ◼ ► like snap crackle and pop with rice krispies when you which the second generation keyboard
01:06:51 ◼ ► like it was this crazy sound like the third generation was better there. The Ingress stuff
01:06:56 ◼ ► is better but it's not perfect like they made they made advances so they're like all right
01:07:00 ◼ ► we're gonna we're gonna do a new one knowing what we know learning what we've learned and
01:07:07 ◼ ► other ways and it's gonna be a more traditional keyboard in a lot of ways because we want
01:07:11 ◼ ► it to be a crowd-pleaser. We want to please everybody as much as possible because it turns
01:07:15 ◼ ► out we made some assumptions that were wrong. I think that's one approach here which is
01:07:18 ◼ ► like we're gonna back up a little bit in some areas and the next keyboard we're gonna we're
01:07:28 ◼ ► of our lessons learned. The other direction is honestly to keep plotting what Apple keeps
01:07:34 ◼ ► doing which is reducing key travel and introducing touch screens to things and that's what I
01:07:43 ◼ ► flat glass touch bar thing that is your keyboard like that is the direction Apple is going
01:07:51 ◼ ► now so what we have to ask ourselves is is there somebody Apple who's like whoa we went
01:08:01 ◼ ► didn't go far enough and well as you said right well we can't get dust into the keyboard
01:08:17 ◼ ► I I also believe you know that what they would do is they would put in haptics and they would
01:08:24 ◼ ► have textures on the keys so you could feel your way around and when you press it's going
01:08:29 ◼ ► to give a little vibration and it's got this patent suggests maybe even a little bit of
01:08:33 ◼ ► physical movement to to fake it and have them be like no no no this is going to be better
01:08:41 ◼ ► way dust can get under there let's do it and that is you know it's possible that they would
01:08:47 ◼ ► do something like that I am my wacky idea that I threw out in the macworld article last
01:08:52 ◼ ► year was that they once they put in like face ID cameras and stuff into laptops when they
01:08:58 ◼ ► gets that stuff there they can just like they can just put nothing down there and they'll
01:09:02 ◼ ► just look at your fingers and know what letters you're typing and just it'll be entirely a
01:09:06 ◼ ► camera based keyboard there's lots of there's lots of right right so so that to me that
01:09:13 ◼ ► is the core of this which is apple is always apple takes pride in reinventing things right
01:09:22 ◼ ► and sometimes and inventing things but reinventing things and and like in their core is this
01:09:27 ◼ ► like why do we have to do it this way this actually came up was it on liftoff last time
01:09:34 ◼ ► I it was in a space context it is the wherever I talked about this it's the idea that like
01:09:40 ◼ ► after the capsules of the of the early part of the space era for the spatial project you're
01:09:44 ◼ ► like we're gonna make a plane it's gonna land like a plane and go up with a rock and it's
01:09:57 ◼ ► and it's like oh yeah it turns out that there were like there were lots of advantages in
01:10:02 ◼ ► the old way of doing things that we hadn't really thought about and then having explored
01:10:16 ◼ ► like apple wants to be new wants to be perceived as like pushing everything forward that's
01:10:25 ◼ ► a way that you know maybe makes sense maybe doesn't and so i think that is the the real
01:10:35 ◼ ► out here is that the practical side of apple it's like you know guys we didn't have these
01:10:40 ◼ ► problems when we just kind of went with the flow and made a really good traditional keyboard
01:10:44 ◼ ► and i like your idea actually mike of why don't we save the really wacky keyboard ideas
01:10:50 ◼ ► for uh an ios keyboard for that next generation ipad where we're going to allow you know we're
01:10:57 ◼ ► going to offer a a new version of a keyboard smart keyboard that's a little more like a
01:11:03 ◼ ► trackpad or a little more like a like a second screen something like that but you know again
01:11:25 ◼ ► them it will require them to swallow if not their pride a little bit of their like corporate
01:11:31 ◼ ► culture of moving forward versus just continuing to push us in this direction they've been
01:11:37 ◼ ► heading all along which is flatter and flatter and flatter until there are no keys left i
01:11:45 ◼ ► am still gonna hold on to my theory all right that we're gonna we live in hope mike we live
01:12:21 ◼ ► cameras as soon as next year among other things but let's start with the headline feature
01:12:26 ◼ ► here 3d cameras now it is worth noting that apparently the 3d cameras are a 2020 product
01:12:34 ◼ ► yes um there are some 2019 phone details but the kind of the headline thing here is 2020
01:12:47 ◼ ► don't want to go there again no no 3d camera terrible name uh to to give i i really don't
01:12:54 ◼ ► think that they did a good job of explaining what a 3d like the idea like calling it 3d
01:12:59 ◼ ► camera um what it is this is for ar so if you imagine uh the camera scanning your environment
01:13:08 ◼ ► and helping you place things so it gives you a good range rather than what it's doing right
01:13:35 ◼ ► to 50 centimeters but this new 3d camera which would be on the back of the of the 2020 iphones
01:13:42 ◼ ► would have a 15 feet range using laser scanning technology according to bloomberg to scan
01:13:54 ◼ ► that ar has gone the length that apple wanted it yet but maybe this would help i think it's
01:14:02 ◼ ► the power the processor power and you've got the sensor detail you you can start you know
01:14:07 ◼ ► really augmenting that space because you know exactly where the carpet is and where the
01:14:17 ◼ ► or away from you and you can overlay information on all of that and that that to do that in
01:14:22 ◼ ► a way that is real you need accuracy and they're they've decided because i imagine google is
01:14:28 ◼ ► looking at a lot of this and thinking we can just use machine learning to interpret what
01:14:38 ◼ ► data ultimately probably to put this in a pair of glasses or something right but they're
01:14:42 ◼ ► not there yet so they're also going to put it in in phones where you can hold it up and
01:14:46 ◼ ► and and see what's going on and ipads too because the rumor is this might actually come
01:15:06 ◼ ► and things like that that extra detail but it's an interesting idea this is far off but
01:15:22 ◼ ► apple thinks is a big future direction i think ar is a curiosity right now but i think apple
01:15:27 ◼ ► is just investing a lot in it because they think that ultimately there will be a payoff
01:15:31 ◼ ► and it will probably be something like glasses more than it will be like like just in holding
01:15:37 ◼ ► our phones up but it's it's early days yet so i think it's an interesting idea that that
01:15:42 ◼ ► they believe in this enough that they're they're working on this 3d camera stuff for 2020 again
01:15:48 ◼ ► for 2020 this is this is the i was excited last week that the 2019 iphone rumors season
01:15:54 ◼ ► is open i guess i'm excited this week because i guess the 2020 iphone rumor season is now
01:16:25 ◼ ► would be like oh no no it must debut on the iphone i i think it actually would be uh maybe
01:16:30 ◼ ► kind of even makes sense for the ipad because the ipad does have that big screen and they
01:16:34 ◼ ► and they demo those all the time right where you're playing an ar game and you're holding
01:16:58 ◼ ► be that they feel like uh at this point they want to go from a two-year cycle for the ipad
01:17:02 ◼ ► pro to an 18-month cycle and so then it goes in the spring of 2020 that's i i think i i'm
01:17:13 ◼ ► maybe it's always been 18 maybe it's i think it's mostly been 18 months it's complicated
01:17:17 ◼ ► right because the big ipad pro came out in the fall and then the and then in the spring
01:17:21 ◼ ► they did the the little one and then it was i think 18 months after that then the following
01:17:26 ◼ ► june then 18 months later september like october like so yeah maybe like and then should the
01:17:38 ◼ ► also have will if there's going to be design changes it will be then um and it may be to
01:18:18 ◼ ► happening in 2019 so according to the report from bloomberg there will be a new 10s and
01:18:38 ◼ ► separate those two things colors yeah it might not be hardware related we don't know right
01:18:52 ◼ ► again as its best-selling phone there is this question of like do you want to keep uh pushing
01:18:58 ◼ ► it forward do you just change the colors do you put in a new processor do you lower the
01:19:01 ◼ ► price what do you do with the 10r because that's something they could do is keep making
01:19:05 ◼ ► the 10r change the colors their margins have gone up on it and they cut the price a little
01:19:09 ◼ ► bit um and keep selling it as their kind of like base model essentially right well because
01:19:14 ◼ ► they might have to scramble because they didn't expect it was going to be the best selling
01:19:18 ◼ ► phone right could be could be and that's something i think they could do in the in this kind
01:19:21 ◼ ► of time frame in a year is what can we do to refresh the 10r uh for for um 2019 i don't
01:19:28 ◼ ► know but it is the idea that there's a um i i would call them iphone 11 and 11 max basically
01:19:43 ◼ ► this three-step process it's the the you know what was a four with six six s seven and eight
01:19:49 ◼ ► right where it was just sort of like the same phone not the same but like the same look
01:19:53 ◼ ► for four years yeah the uh 11 max is looking to introduce a third camera which also introduces
01:20:03 ◼ ► again to the oled phone generation a difference between the max and the regular size phone
01:20:13 ◼ ► likely that the third camera would then come in 2020 to the r and the regular or what would
01:20:24 ◼ ► would be the third camera um the new camera system in the max though would give a wider
01:20:35 ◼ ► kind of fun it will also capture more pixels so apple software could for example automatically
01:20:40 ◼ ► repair a video or photo to fit in a subject that may have been accidentally cut off from
01:20:45 ◼ ► the initial shot according to people familiar with the plans and it would be a fun demo
01:20:53 ◼ ► bring johnny in because whilst you were taking a regular portrait mode photo the wide camera
01:20:58 ◼ ► was there the whole time so we can just crop it and there you go that's brilliant so that'd
01:21:06 ◼ ► involve um you know running the running the camera when you haven't run it uh and having
01:21:27 ◼ ► record you've always got the option of going back like a second or two before you press
01:21:37 ◼ ► that they could do with a combination of hardware and software which is apple's thing um the
01:21:43 ◼ ► also live photos is looking to see an update uh the video portion will double to six seconds
01:21:58 ◼ ► that seems similar in that you know what live photos is doing is doing more than what you
01:22:06 ◼ ► so maybe there's some kind of like links there with what that's what's happening um of course
01:22:12 ◼ ► we're going to see a faster processor uh and also a better face id sensor i wonder if this
01:22:16 ◼ ► is going to be the actual face id too right that we were hoping for because it appeared
01:22:24 ◼ ► right like the after teardowns and from information that the face id sensor in the uh 10s unchanged
01:22:32 ◼ ► and that any differences were coming from the machine learning capabilities of the chip
01:22:37 ◼ ► of the system on a chip so maybe this will be some updates to the face id sensor to maybe
01:22:42 ◼ ► make face id better in some way apparently apple is testing usb-c for the iphone of course
01:22:59 ◼ ► about that um like i don't get the ipad mini though uh i i think when we see it we will
01:23:07 ◼ ► get it because i think it's going to be i think i think apple because the ipad has done
01:23:13 ◼ ► so well and and really defines the tablet market and i think apple made some smart decisions
01:23:18 ◼ ► last year with their low-cost ipad so like doing a new version of the low-cost ipad that
01:23:29 ◼ ► the low-cost category basically like saying here are our uh education or for kids low-cost
01:23:41 ◼ ► doing an iphone se kind of thing where it's like it's good to have the the product line
01:23:45 ◼ ► differentiated and if they do a new ipad mini it's probably because they realize that there
01:23:50 ◼ ► is you know why hasn't it gone away it's because there is a market for it it's not a huge market
01:23:55 ◼ ► but there is a market for it and so keep it alive like why why not do that i i think it's
01:23:59 ◼ ► not going to be an earth-shattering product right it's this is low-end ipads but low-end
01:24:15 ◼ ► how they describe like what its positioning is i i i'm prepared to understand what they're
01:24:21 ◼ ► doing there i think it's my can when i say like i don't get it it's like why did it wait
01:24:27 ◼ ► so long and then do it you know like that's what just seems so strange to me i mean that
01:24:39 ◼ ► longer if we're gonna keep this around we need to write do an update and then even kill
01:24:43 ◼ ► it for another four years if we don't want to kill it we have to do something okay yeah
01:24:47 ◼ ► but that seems like such a i mean okay but it's like really all right but anyway anyway
01:25:07 ◼ ► books fresh books make my life so much easier because i am a person who sends invoices fresh
01:25:24 ◼ ► and having the ability to get paid online for the work that you do fresh books has drastically
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01:25:54 ◼ ► i think i would have lost my mind if i was trying to do all of those in pages or something
01:26:03 ◼ ► soon as we set up a company we signed up for fresh books immediately and it's one of the
01:26:15 ◼ ► late payment email reminders for you if you don't if you don't want to have to waste time
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01:27:06 ◼ ► so shall we uh should we talk about ios 13 stuff here so yeah dark mode and improvements
01:27:13 ◼ ► to carplay is what we'll see on the iphone and across everything all right so dark mode
01:27:18 ◼ ► sounds great i've wanted a dark mode for a long time yeah that i think we knew this was
01:27:23 ◼ ► coming when they added it to the mac right like why would you not put that on your other
01:27:36 ◼ ► i never use carplay but like improvements to that system would be great because it seems
01:27:44 ◼ ► and dance for carplay in quite some time so yeah you know again i don't think either of
01:27:50 ◼ ► us are well versed enough in carplay to say much about it but like great no i have another
01:27:56 ◼ ► rental car with carplay in it two weeks ago that was exciting and uh yeah it it's still
01:28:01 ◼ ► carplay new ipad home screen now this is something i'm very excited for the thought of this just
01:28:08 ◼ ► just something to break up that grid of icons right like you know and i'm sure we're gonna
01:28:12 ◼ ► spend a lot of time over the next few months as we lead up to wwc thinking about what this
01:28:17 ◼ ► is going to look like and i mean hopefully maybe who knows some more details might come
01:28:22 ◼ ► out but uh that is something that definitely needs some work um and i will be very excited
01:28:33 ◼ ► uh widgets and files and everything all living there like this big mix between what ios and
01:29:02 ◼ ► than multiple instances of like google sheets which would be great but like i feel like
01:29:11 ◼ ► their new take on multitasking which is that you have uh you can have multiple items in
01:29:18 ◼ ► tabs and then you can have um tabs in a couple different configurations that's my guess so
01:29:30 ◼ ► set and tab between them you know to to move between different apps that are all up together
01:29:35 ◼ ► but you could also like pull out a tab and put it next and then you've got uh split view
01:29:47 ◼ ► you could have uh you know a text editor up with a couple of different documents and different
01:29:59 ◼ ► of my question is um are they going to do tabs and multitasking or is tab the multitasking
01:30:08 ◼ ► where you have instead of having sort of like two app windows like we have now you instead
01:30:13 ◼ ► have two tabs side by side which would allow them to build into that kind of like chrome
01:30:22 ◼ ► which one is at the at the front right like all these other issues that we have with the
01:30:26 ◼ ► current ipad multitasking so it may be that which is they've decided to what's the metaphor
01:30:32 ◼ ► we can use that probably they'll extend to the mac at some point too that is uh you know
01:30:38 ◼ ► multiple instances of an app so basically multiple windows as well as uh quick switching
01:30:43 ◼ ► between different apps that you're using and then the ability to have them on the sheer
01:31:01 ◼ ► this um tab metaphor stuff but it may be that they just decided like the tab metaphor everybody
01:31:06 ◼ ► gets it everybody loves it and uh we could use that as the metaphor for having different
01:31:16 ◼ ► management as well tantalizing isn't it tantalizing idea improvements to file management continues
01:31:22 ◼ ► to frustrate me greatly every day so i would love some improvements i i use it and i am
01:31:40 ◼ ► who's dying of thirst in the desert like it is way too little for what it should be better
01:31:55 ◼ ► this app and then i go to files and i navigate here and it's just you know it's it's uh it's
01:32:01 ◼ ► better but it needs to be way better and this also encompasses all the other things we talked
01:32:05 ◼ ► about in terms of external storage devices and network storage devices and you know other
01:32:10 ◼ ► stuff like that is just not good enough yet that they're they're down the path but they
01:32:15 ◼ ► need to get way further down so improvements to file management could mean anything but
01:32:20 ◼ ► i'm gonna choose to be optimistic that it means everything for now because it's January
01:32:24 ◼ ► or February it's in June i'll be much more cynical about it but in in winter i will still
01:32:41 ◼ ► Nepali says HomePod annoys me when i'm using Siri on my phone and HomePod kind of jumps
01:32:48 ◼ ► into request instead of saying ahoy telephone i think it should be like ahoy HomePod to
01:33:03 ◼ ► But i know why Apple's doing it this way is Apple is trying to build a system where all
01:33:07 ◼ ► your devices have the same trigger and then based on the context it's choosing the right
01:33:11 ◼ ► device to execute your command and i have to say i've been using it the last few months
01:33:16 ◼ ► and have felt like after initially this not being the case that in my house when i shout
01:33:22 ◼ ► out of command to the HomePod i see my watch fire i see my phone turn like light up every
01:33:35 ◼ ► to the HomePod and that has in the last couple of months that has worked really reliably
01:33:58 ◼ ► context they don't want you to have to talk to a specific device for a specific context
01:34:11 ◼ ► if it's been used recently and and how you're talking to the HomePod and all of those things
01:34:22 ◼ ► and then that device picks it up i think that is the right goal for Apple i think it should
01:34:26 ◼ ► be that i think that they need to keep working on it but i think that ultimately you should
01:34:30 ◼ ► just talk to the assistant in the air and it should figure out what it needs to do like
01:34:35 ◼ ► to the point where if i if if the iPhone says oh you want to play music but i'm laying down
01:34:40 ◼ ► and i'm charging and i think maybe it's doing this already it's like you probably don't
01:35:04 ◼ ► like you should be able to do that you should you should because i have a thing sometimes
01:35:09 ◼ ► where it's like i have like a shortcut and i want to run and i know the HomePod is going
01:35:17 ◼ ► a thing i want to do and the HomePod is going to say you have to do that on your iPhone
01:35:20 ◼ ► it's like well i knew that but i can't right right like i know this right i know this it
01:35:26 ◼ ► should be smart enough to know oh this command isn't for me let's try it out on the iPhone
01:35:30 ◼ ► right and it doesn't always do that i like it's a good goal and maybe they'll get there
01:35:36 ◼ ► eventually but in the meantime yes i think you should be able to just talk to the HomePod
01:35:43 ◼ ► and and say maybe even in addition to maybe it's a maybe it's a specific wake word that
01:35:49 ◼ ► you can demand the HomePod to process instead while it'll also listen to your ahoy telephones
01:36:05 ◼ ► So last week Apple and American Airlines announced that you'll be able to listen to Apple Music
01:36:10 ◼ ► for free without paying for their wi-fi when you're in the air so Doug asks do you think
01:36:29 ◼ ► Yeah and and the video service is more tantalizing for when you're on a plane than music right
01:36:35 ◼ ► you want video video is what you want so like Apple becomes the in-flight entertainment
01:36:45 ◼ ► lot of these too right like i've seen this like you get on i think maybe British Airways
01:36:55 ◼ ► Virgin i've seen this on a on a airline that i've used where like we have wi-fi but you
01:37:00 ◼ ► don't have to pay for the wi-fi if you have a Netflix account to just watch Netflix which
01:37:04 ◼ ► is brilliant right rather than having to just then you have a screen you know is going to
01:37:09 ◼ ► be good right and it's not you know so you could just watch your content would be awesome.
01:37:13 ◼ ► Chris asks do either of you use Apple Pay Cash? I've been hesitant to link my bank account
01:37:27 ◼ ► available here which is still a surprise remains a surprise to me but do you use Apple Pay
01:37:35 ◼ ► a bunch of other nerds and like at your bachelor party right where i was sending to people
01:37:45 ◼ ► that point i can move cash on and off of my bank account through the debit card interface
01:37:56 ◼ ► context when i can use it i love it because i don't it's another way i don't need to use
01:38:06 ◼ ► Chris - Yeah because you don't even need to open an app right you just do it in text messages
01:38:17 ◼ ► nice i wish you know this is one of those things where it's just like Apple Pay adoption
01:38:32 ◼ ► i would really like it to be something i could i could count on here and then you've got
01:38:50 ◼ ► Chris - And finally today Will asks since i got a Kindle Amazon has been trying to sell
01:38:55 ◼ ► me accessories for the Kindle most often the top recommendation from them is a case Jason
01:39:04 ◼ ► Steve - I um so i have tended to not use a Kindle with a case especially because so many
01:39:12 ◼ ► of the Kindles now are small and light like i've got the second generation Oasis the first
01:39:16 ◼ ► generation Oasis comes with a case so i used it and it was nice because you know it turns
01:39:20 ◼ ► on when you open it and closes when you close it it turns back off and the first generation
01:39:26 ◼ ► Oasis you could actually pull the case off and it's like a battery case and then it was
01:39:34 ◼ ► it's a little bit heavier but it's still thin and light i um i used a slip case for a long
01:39:39 ◼ ► time so when i traveled i would have basically like an iPod sock but for Kindles like neoprene
01:39:44 ◼ ► case that i'd slide the the Kindle into so it wouldn't get beaten up while i was traveling
01:39:54 ◼ ► weeks ago i bought a Kindle Oasis case i think the Amazon Kindle Oasis case which is basically
01:40:00 ◼ ► you snap it into a little plastic shell and it's got a cover on it and um i did that because
01:40:08 ◼ ► my current uh slip case for the Oasis i don't really like it um and i saw the value of maybe
01:40:16 ◼ ► having something that would be really easy to take out of my bag and just flip open the
01:40:20 ◼ ► cover and read it um and then flip it closed and put it back in the bag so i did buy one
01:40:33 ◼ ► thicker makes it more awkward to hold i prefer just the uh naked robotic core but uh when
01:40:41 ◼ ► i'm traveling i'll put that case on it so and that's the standard i think it's the Amazon
01:40:45 ◼ ► standard case for the Kindle Oasis so it depends on how you use it if it never leaves home
01:40:49 ◼ ► i don't see why you need a case on it but for travel i would recommend at the very least
01:40:52 ◼ ► some sort of slip case if not a full-on cover for travel so it doesn't get beaten up i want
01:41:06 ◼ ► on my iphone it's the pop socket is that little little disc that you can pull out and hold
01:41:14 ◼ ► it back in you probably have seen these maybe didn't know what they were uh go to pop sockets
01:41:19 ◼ ► website it'll be in the show notes you can see what they are and you'll be like oh i've
01:41:22 ◼ ► seen those everywhere and now you know what they are this is how i was when i discovered
01:41:25 ◼ ► pop sockets like i feel like i've seen those everywhere i didn't know what they were um
01:41:46 ◼ ► was so close but like just ah it was just wasn't light enough pop socket like perfectly
01:42:04 ◼ ► i put a pop socket on my Kindle and i'm very happy with it so that is what i will recommend
01:42:08 ◼ ► to people to try so pop sockets they're brilliant if you would like to send in a question to
01:42:15 ◼ ► help close out an episode of upgrade all you have to do is send out a tweet with the hashtag
01:42:20 ◼ ► ask upgrade to do that and you and it will be so that may be selected for a future episode
01:42:29 ◼ ► we're a little bit behind Jason but we're going to get to him we just have so much good
01:42:32 ◼ ► stuff to talk about i know i know we'll have to do a special expanded ask upgrade at some
01:42:50 ◼ ► and apple's not going to announce anything and we're already already through the earnings
01:42:54 ◼ ► and like literally nothing is going to happen in the next week and then we can do our ask
01:42:58 ◼ ► upgrade uh special episode and then maybe tech companies will stop doing terrible things
01:43:12 ◼ ► be in your podcast app of choice but if they're not there there's always a place you can go
01:43:23 ◼ ► jason's work you can go to incomparable.com as well for many wonderful shows about lovely
01:43:28 ◼ ► pop culture all the great shows all the great shows some of the great shows also exist at
01:43:32 ◼ ► relay.fm slash shows where you can find stuff that both me and jason do hey follow me on