00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 215. Today's show is brought to you by GreenChef,
00:00:20 ◼ ► It is great to be here in episode number Divisible by 5. 215. Hi Myke, how are you doing?
00:00:27 ◼ ► Our Snell Talk question this week, #SnellTalk, comes from our friend, Stay, who wants to
00:00:34 ◼ ► know. To follow up on Upgrading Casey's question from last week, where is Jason's favorite
00:00:48 ◼ ► So careful listeners to the Upgrade program will know that in the episode where we discussed
00:00:59 ◼ ► that Myke had just returned from his vacation, his honeymoon, to Hawaii, that Hawaii is my
00:01:05 ◼ ► favorite place. So my favorite place to visit outside of California is Hawaii. I would go
00:01:10 ◼ ► there every year if I could. This year, my kids have a huge amount of time between right
00:01:21 ◼ ► before Christmas and like a week after New Year's. It's the perfect time to go to Hawaii.
00:01:28 ◼ ► But because my wife is very wonderful and now has a full-time job where she's providing
00:01:34 ◼ ► benefits to the rest of the family, that also means that she's limited in her vacation time,
00:01:39 ◼ ► and we can't just go to Hawaii. So, you know, trade-offs. But I would love to do it every
00:01:45 ◼ ► year because I love Hawaii. That's my answer. And then in terms of top of my bucket list,
00:02:23 ◼ ► I've never been, no. I've never been south of the equator. So, yeah, those are my choices.
00:02:49 ◼ ► dangerous than like a pig or a cat. So I'm open to New Zealand, but either one is fine.
00:02:58 ◼ ► Thank you to Sté for asking that question. If you would like to submit your own question
00:03:03 ◼ ► to be answered on a future episode to open the show, just send in a tweet with the hashtag
00:03:08 ◼ ► SnellTalk. I would like to remind our listeners that we will be recording an episode in person
00:03:19 ◼ ► potential logistics that will come with that. So what I will ask is if anybody has any questions
00:03:24 ◼ ► that pertains specifically to us being in person, send them in for the next week's show,
00:03:31 ◼ ► Some follow up, we were talking on the last episode about USB-C and the iPad and the Apple
00:03:37 ◼ ► Pencil and listener Jono wrote in to make a very good point about why in 9to5Mac's report
00:04:01 ◼ ► Exactly. Yeah, I think I hadn't really thought about that. It's a very good point. It wouldn't
00:04:07 ◼ ► shock me given that it's Bluetooth basically, it wouldn't shock me if you could still use
00:04:19 ◼ ► back streets of Dongle Town in order to adapt USB-C to Lightning and then have the little
00:04:32 ◼ ► But then you're going to have charging issues too, right, because it's just not going to
00:04:39 ◼ ► Yeah, so it might be compatible but it's probably not going to be advisable even if it is compatible.
00:04:45 ◼ ► Further follow up about the iPad Pro, there was an update to said report from Guillermo
00:05:01 ◼ ► This is nice because so often the iPads are the previous generation chip technology with
00:05:08 ◼ ► Or sometimes current, right, like it's never like a, it's very rarely a new, new thing,
00:05:27 ◼ ► existing chip that's in this year's iPhones. But with the, you know, extensions that they
00:05:32 ◼ ► do to, you know, which can take various things, better graphics, whatever it is, it's an upgrade,
00:05:58 ◼ ► Sure, sure. And it's, yeah, because there's many more pixels on one of these giant iPad
00:06:23 ◼ ► includes instruction sets. They talked about this on ATP the last two weeks, instruction
00:06:41 ◼ ► on an iPhone XS are faster than on an iMac Pro. And that's ridiculous, but it's because
00:06:57 ◼ ► me thinking about one of my huge frustrations with the iPad Pro, which is its mobile Safari.
00:07:11 ◼ ► of the user agents it reports to websites, a lot of websites hijack a page load and lose
00:07:17 ◼ ► and load a mobile version of the site, which can be good, but is often very bad because
00:07:23 ◼ ► it's a phone page that's loading on an iPad. And I heard from a lot of people when I complained
00:07:37 ◼ ► yes, this is one of their biggest frustrations. This is a place where Chromebooks really have
00:07:42 ◼ ► it over the iPad and where the new tablet from Google has it over the iPad is that it's
00:07:51 ◼ ► heard from a lot of people and it's the usual, which is Apple can do anything and they're
00:07:56 ◼ ► amazing and they never do anything wrong, but this is a hard problem and Apple can never
00:08:03 ◼ ► It's so easily solvable. I mean, the difference between this and like the, the slate, right?
00:08:12 ◼ ► Because these devices, I completely agree with them more than powerful. In fact, sometimes
00:08:17 ◼ ► overpowered, right? Like to deal with these. But the problem is that touch doesn't work
00:08:24 ◼ ► always with every single website. So you need a pointing device. And honestly, it's true.
00:08:28 ◼ ► The Apple pencil can deal with this, right? Like, you know, like as well as a trackpad,
00:08:36 ◼ ► Yeah. And, and you know, I, what I'm not saying, and of course the other thing that happens
00:08:40 ◼ ► on Twitter is that people assume you are being an absolutist and like, and then they're like,
00:08:44 ◼ ► aha, but this doesn't solve all examples and therefore it is wrong, which is also dumb.
00:08:50 ◼ ► You know, desktop Safari lets you adjust per site, video autoplay, video autoplay with sound.
00:08:56 ◼ ► There's all these things. It's like, it wouldn't be that hard. I mean, again, it's an engineering
00:09:00 ◼ ► project, but it's Apple. I think they're capable of it to say this site, I want you to load
00:09:27 ◼ ► big difference. It will make a huge difference to the future of the iPad. We have some stuff
00:09:32 ◼ ► later on today, which kind of like actually comes back to this topic. So maybe we should
00:09:58 ◼ ► it is a mobile browser and doesn't give you the desktop browser performance, like other
00:10:05 ◼ ► than issues with pointing devices, you could do a great desktop class web browsing experience
00:10:11 ◼ ► on the iPad Pro and we should be able to do that. So, you know, we'll see. We'll see if
00:10:17 ◼ ► they get there now. We'll see if they get there in iOS 13. We'll see when we get there.
00:10:26 ◼ ► for now, Jason, we must do some upstream news because CNBC had a report in quotation, I
00:10:35 ◼ ► think, about Apple's upcoming streaming service. I want to read a quote from this article.
00:10:41 ◼ ► The product will include Apple-owned content, which will be free to Apple device owners
00:10:45 ◼ ► and subscription channels, which will allow customers to sign up for online-only services
00:11:00 ◼ ► has of Prime Video channels, full disclosure, they have been a sponsor of some relay FM
00:11:08 ◼ ► it because I said the exact name of the product. That got reported as news. And it's not really
00:11:13 ◼ ► because even the story says Bloomberg already reported that part in May. So one of the things
00:11:20 ◼ ► here, if anything. And yet the story got picked up heavily. So here is the part that seems
00:11:26 ◼ ► to be new. So the channels, the idea there is Apple's going to, which goes directly against
00:11:35 ◼ ► to try and get you to buy premium streaming services, essentially sign up within the TV
00:11:42 ◼ ► app and they appear in the TV app, which is sort of like, I mean, you can still buy things
00:11:46 ◼ ► already with, I'm not sure how different that is than what they do now because you can buy
00:11:52 ◼ ► things with Apple's payment system through the third-party apps, but maybe the apps won't
00:12:03 ◼ ► Now app because you just watch those shows within the TV app. That's how the Prime channels
00:12:08 ◼ ► work. So maybe. That's very confusing. But it's also old news. So really the news seems
00:12:12 ◼ ► to be this suggestion that Apple is going to make some of its own video content available
00:12:31 ◼ ► content will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be made back by taking a percentage of
00:12:36 ◼ ► the sales of other people's streaming video services. That is not a, you know, Apple is
00:12:47 ◼ ► the subscription sale. That's not why it's doing it. Probably what's going to go on here
00:12:51 ◼ ► is either Apple wants to get people into the TV app and sees that what the CNBC story says
00:12:57 ◼ ► is a Netflix-like subscription service quote "down the road." And I think that's basically
00:13:05 ◼ ► the report here is that they're saying Apple will launch this content for free in the TV
00:13:18 ◼ ► bit later. And the only question there is, is it really going to be free shows to start
00:13:26 ◼ ► or is it going to be more like Apple Music where you get these shows for free but you've
00:13:33 ◼ ► got to sign up and after three months we start charging you or after six months we start
00:13:38 ◼ ► I feel like the idea of them doing a trial is just an inevitability. I feel like anyone
00:13:52 ◼ ► And we've talked about the split season model too where if they order 13 episodes of a show,
00:14:06 ◼ ► maybe some of them roll out weekly. But the idea there is what you want is to get people
00:14:26 ◼ ► to be a free trial at some point almost certainly. So maybe that's what this is or maybe not.
00:14:32 ◼ ► Maybe this report is saying that they're just going to drop a couple of shows just for free
00:14:41 ◼ ► TV app where obviously this other service is going to live in that TV app, that's worth
00:14:53 ◼ ► Keeping in mind they're not giving it away to everybody, they're giving it away to everybody
00:14:55 ◼ ► who has an Apple TV or an iPad or an iPhone to watch on those devices. But still, of course,
00:15:01 ◼ ► because that's what they're going to do. Anyway, it's a weird report. There's a lot of words
00:15:06 ◼ ► for apparently not a lot that's new. And the stuff that's new is kind of unclear. So, you
00:15:14 ◼ ► know, but it's worth at least pondering the idea that Apple somehow is going to, you know,
00:15:20 ◼ ► that its master strategy, I think it's worth saying that this story is saying what we've
00:15:23 ◼ ► kind of intuited, which is its master strategy is get people in the TV app, put their service
00:15:28 ◼ ► in the TV app, and then this previous Bloomberg report saying they're also going to focus
00:15:39 ◼ ► of TV was apps, but now the future of TV is the TV app. And that's not surprising. They've
00:15:56 ◼ ► The future of the TV app. We have a new challenger approaching. Of course, there is another media
00:16:07 ◼ ► been talking about a little bit over the last couple of weeks. There's a report from The
00:16:12 ◼ ► Hollywood Reporter that WarnerMedia is preparing to launch their streaming service of their
00:16:21 ◼ ► be included in this, HBO, TBS, Cartoon Network, Properties from the DC Universe, Hanna-Barbera
00:16:38 ◼ ► about this one, Jason, because at first I was kind of like, all right. But then I started
00:16:48 ◼ ► we maybe sometimes don't give them the same credit we could give Disney, right? Even just
00:16:53 ◼ ► Harry Potter. So me and Nadina are currently watching the Harry Potter movies because she's
00:16:58 ◼ ► never seen them. She's never read the books, never seen the movies. So we're watching them
00:17:01 ◼ ► all. As I'm watching them, as somebody who read the books and watched the movies, loved
00:17:11 ◼ ► Because we watched Goblet of Fire and she's like, why don't we get to see what everybody
00:17:21 ◼ ► time in the movies to tell the whole stories. God, it would be a really good like seven
00:17:38 ◼ ► they're feeling like HBO now is successful and they don't want to upset that. So they're
00:17:47 ◼ ► encompasses all their content. I look at that and think, okay, I guess it kind of makes
00:17:55 ◼ ► you probably just want everybody to have... They're trying to not burn all their bridges,
00:18:34 ◼ ► it as well and catalog stuff. So it is a little like Disney, right? They're not doing a Marvel
00:18:44 ◼ ► streaming service, but they've got multiple streaming services in different areas. I could
00:19:05 ◼ ► stuff, but for new stuff, as well as completely original stuff, but franchise stuff that they
00:19:10 ◼ ► could pull out and put on here, including some other DC stuff that's not in the DC streaming
00:19:16 ◼ ► service or that's on both. That might be interesting to do. Harry Potter is a great example of
00:19:30 ◼ ► and that's what the future is going to be. You're going to have your Comcast streaming,
00:19:34 ◼ ► and you're going to have your Warner streaming, and you're going to have your Disney streaming,
00:19:52 ◼ ► effects and the Philosopher's Stone do not hold. They do not hold up. The rest of them,
00:19:58 ◼ ► from the second one, it does its job, right? But in the first one, you can see all these
00:20:02 ◼ ► places where they're trying to hide special effects, right? They're trying to like, you
00:20:07 ◼ ► don't see McGonagall turning into a cat. You just see a shadow, right? It's like, we can't
00:20:11 ◼ ► do that yet, but they get that later on. But just in general, the special effects do not
00:20:17 ◼ ► hold up in that first movie. But it was like, I looked at it, I was like, oh, because it's
00:20:20 ◼ ► Disney 20 years old. It's kind of, and I guess, you know, I reckon those budgets improved
00:20:25 ◼ ► a lot from the second one onwards. But it's been great fun to watch it again, but it does
00:20:33 ◼ ► reboot it yet. And I know that there's a lot of other Harry Potter stuff going on, which
00:20:49 ◼ ► But I would love to see a TV show. I did see a thing recently that they're making, like,
00:20:54 ◼ ► somebody, some studio is making like a AAA open world game set in the Harry Potter universe,
00:21:01 ◼ ► So when you get to the end of all the movies, then the next thing you guys need to do is
00:21:07 ◼ ► I think we will. I think he seems to be enjoying it a lot more than I expected you would.
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00:24:32 ◼ ► All right, so this week, this past week, if you follow lots of people that we talk about
00:24:39 ◼ ► on this show on Twitter, people like David Smith and Steve Shountain Smith, not related
00:24:45 ◼ ► I don't think, but both Smiths or Marco Arment, then you may have seen custom watch faces
00:25:10 ◼ ► GitHub. So it's something you can go get started with on your own of building your own custom
00:25:14 ◼ ► watch faces using SpriteKit. Now these aren't, as Jason said, these aren't actual watch faces
00:25:19 ◼ ► you can choose as watch faces. They're apps that you can make, little apps that you can
00:25:26 ◼ ► And if you use a setting on the Apple watch, which is to, when you look at the watch for
00:25:40 ◼ ► watch face, which has led to many, many people playing around with what Steve has been doing
00:25:50 ◼ ► And it spread quite widely. I will include also in the show notes a link to a blog post
00:25:56 ◼ ► that David Smith has done. So underscore he made a bunch of really useful functional faces,
00:26:08 ◼ ► he used those as an inspiration. And of course, if you look at some of what Steve Shountain
00:26:12 ◼ ► Smith has been doing, it clearly started from the Hermes face and moved on from there, right?
00:26:18 ◼ ► The Hermes face, which debuted with the series four, is like these two colors cut in half
00:26:24 ◼ ► and it moves, the color kind of split moves with the minute hand. So it moves around the
00:26:29 ◼ ► face and then he kind of went on from there. So you kind of would ask yourself, why are
00:26:34 ◼ ► people doing this? You know, and I think that Jason, you wrote a really good article that
00:26:56 ◼ ► faces have new complication types. They can't use old ones. Old watch faces aren't updated
00:27:08 ◼ ► Yeah, this is, yeah, I wrote a about it briefly in my Apple watch review and then Marco wrote
00:27:18 ◼ ► So it was kind of in the water there. But I think this moment where we've got the larger
00:27:23 ◼ ► screen on the Apple watches, this, this generation and the moves that Apple made in terms of
00:27:44 ◼ ► faces with these new complications. It's like, yeah, they do. But if you peel it back a layer,
00:27:53 ◼ ► throw a couple of faces on there, but they don't go back really and rethink the old faces
00:28:00 ◼ ► and this time it's all exacerbated. So they made the two Infograph faces in order to make
00:28:06 ◼ ► more rich complications. They created some new complication styles for the new Infograph
00:28:19 ◼ ► only work on those faces. Fair enough, right? But the weird thing is everything else, like
00:28:24 ◼ ► all the other faces didn't get updated except for like little minor updates and some of
00:28:28 ◼ ► which are annoying, like making the straight line complications on other faces into slight
00:28:34 ◼ ► curves, but it's still literally the same complication. It's the old style complication.
00:28:39 ◼ ► So that's annoying and they keep doing that where obviously it's not a priority to them
00:28:44 ◼ ► to make their old watch faces better just to throw more new ones on. And that's, I mean,
00:28:52 ◼ ► what Marco said, I think on Twitter or maybe in his blog post is it feels to him like there's
00:29:01 ◼ ► it. But then you get into some of the details that are just so bad and the best one, the
00:29:07 ◼ ► best example is Apple introduced a new circular complication on the new watch faces. They
00:29:13 ◼ ► have an existing circular complication. They made no attempt to put any compatibility in.
00:29:34 ◼ ► want to launch messages or something, it's not there anymore. You have to use a different
00:29:38 ◼ ► face for that. So they've created this own kind of like discontinuity of watch face complications
00:29:46 ◼ ► in the thing that they completely control themselves. And it is just one of those moments
00:29:50 ◼ ► where a whole bunch of us who use the Apple Watch look at this and say, "Why is it that
00:29:55 ◼ ► for all of the effort Apple puts into so many aspects of the Apple Watch, it appears to
00:30:01 ◼ ► be doing almost the minimum on watch face design?" Like literally, and because the minimum
00:30:08 ◼ ► is we have a new big screen, we need to create new faces to take advantage of them that we
00:30:13 ◼ ► can show off. So they did that and then literally nothing else, including adding compatibility
00:30:17 ◼ ► for older complications or allowing those new complications to live on the older faces,
00:30:24 ◼ ► which is the other part of this. My favorite Apple Watch face is utility, and I took screenshots
00:30:35 ◼ ► size, the circle is exactly the same size, which means those complications in the corners
00:30:41 ◼ ► have exactly the same amount of room on both faces, but one face can only use the old ones
00:30:48 ◼ ► and one face can only use the new ones. And I get that there might be some design issues
00:31:08 ◼ ► didn't bother, probably because whoever's working on this had to prioritize and updating
00:31:22 ◼ ► are saying. And you see the frustration when you see developers like Steve Trout and Smith
00:31:27 ◼ ► building these watch face apps. I think the message here is, one, third parties can build
00:31:35 ◼ ► watch face apps and that's interesting. But two, it's there's a hunger for better watch
00:31:41 ◼ ► faces on the Apple Watch. And for me, it comes down to this idea that if Apple, and this
00:31:50 ◼ ► is what I said in my piece, if Apple, I get that Apple might want to keep complete control
00:31:55 ◼ ► or mostly control of the watch faces. I get that. I get that we may never see a true third
00:32:07 ◼ ► that absolutist argument. They'll say, well, you know, they can't let anybody because they'll
00:32:10 ◼ ► be intellectual property issues and lawsuits and things like, well, you know, if you read
00:32:14 ◼ ► a CarPlay app, you have to get approval from a special part of Apple App Store group in
00:32:21 ◼ ► order to be allowed to have a CarPlay app. You can curate a developer and say, we trust
00:32:25 ◼ ► you. But even if they don't, like this is the thing is, okay, Apple, you want to completely
00:32:37 ◼ ► you're going to have the monopoly on it, you got to do a better job. Like that's the bottom
00:32:41 ◼ ► line is you got to do a better job. You've got to update your old faces. You got to provide
00:32:44 ◼ ► more variety. You've got to make the complications better and more compatible. And I get the
00:32:54 ◼ ► watch OS for the last few years that they've been trying to deal with that the watch faces
00:33:14 ◼ ► that they've kind of been doing minimal effort on faces all this time is starting to show.
00:33:20 ◼ ► And so from my perspective, I feel like all of us are essentially through all these different
00:33:38 ◼ ► to complications across all the faces and making sure all the faces are up to date because
00:33:44 ◼ ► there's a discontinuity here. I think the face is the main interface of the Apple watch.
00:33:55 ◼ ► and complications are how people use the Apple watch. And so to just kind of stick in a couple
00:34:10 ◼ ► the new style, it's just not good. It's really bad. And so that's what's going on here. It's
00:34:24 ◼ ► different options across it. And it's fun. And these are developers playing, but they're
00:34:31 ◼ ► also making a point that it's not impossible to build nice watch faces and somebody ought
00:34:41 ◼ ► I want to talk about the copyright issue thing because I think that's brought up quite a
00:34:45 ◼ ► lot and also it's like I can see why people will bring it up because a lot of the watch
00:34:49 ◼ ► faces that are being created by people right now would infringe on the copyright of other
00:34:55 ◼ ► watchmakers. And I think it's because right now as people are kind of just getting their
00:35:06 ◼ ► already understand because they're first tinkering. This is kind of how you learn is by like,
00:35:12 ◼ ► "Okay, can I make this?" It's like, "Okay, I made this and it looks like this so I know
00:35:15 ◼ ► how it works. Now I can start working on my own ideas." Underscore David Smith's a really
00:35:25 ◼ ► looked like watches that I knew and then when I understood that I made some stuff that was
00:35:30 ◼ ► useful in my own way and that are my own designs." Because I think that's kind of how people
00:35:35 ◼ ► start. So I can see how the argument of copyright gets brought up when everybody's kind of sharing
00:35:47 ◼ ► that Apple can solve or have already solved. Look at the iMessage sticker store. This was
00:35:56 ◼ ► the thing that they spoke about. Apple spoke about this, the potential for copyright infringement
00:36:07 ◼ ► that they mostly have. I mean, you can search for a lot of copyright characters and you
00:36:18 ◼ ► Disney stuff that Disney makes. You don't find other people. So you know, the very popular
00:36:22 ◼ ► character Pusheen, right? They make a sticker pack for Pusheen. There aren't a bunch of
00:36:30 ◼ ► other people trying to make these fake Pusheen sticker packs because you would find them
00:36:38 ◼ ► Mouse stickers. It's literally a curated app store. This is why we have a curated app store.
00:36:55 ◼ ► have issues there with approving some stuff that should not get approved. But on the smaller
00:37:00 ◼ ► ones, it seems to not be that much of a problem. But even in the app store, there is a process
00:37:28 ◼ ► all be knockoffs of existing faces. First off, there is the irony here that Apple itself
00:37:40 ◼ ► >> Yeah, the Swiss clock, right. But if they wanted to do third-party watch faces, they
00:37:45 ◼ ► could say it's very much in the terms already but they could even point a finger at it that
00:37:51 ◼ ► like anything that's intellectual property of an existing watchmaker is not allowed and
00:37:56 ◼ ► there'll be a process to do that and they'll train up a team on what the existing watch
00:38:02 ◼ ► face trademarks are or whatever and they'll be super specific about it or they'll train
00:38:20 ◼ ► and agree to all these other things and we're going to watch what you do more closely and
00:38:26 ◼ ► that's going to be how they do it is like you know you're an approved watch face developer.
00:38:30 ◼ ► There are lots of ways they can do it if they want to do it and it would be great if they
00:38:34 ◼ ► want to do it that way because maybe Apple could focus on making complications compatible
00:38:39 ◼ ► across all of these different things and not worry about building a million different faces
00:39:01 ◼ ► in different contexts which is another thing that they're lacking where you know I want
00:39:23 ◼ ► If I had to put money on it I would say I would say no I would ever ever is a long time
00:39:33 ◼ ► I think it is highly possible that they will one day do it will they do it next year I'm
00:39:40 ◼ ► Within the next five years let's let's kind of put a cap on it just to make it a little
00:39:45 ◼ ► Yeah let's say yes yeah let's say yes I think that in the long in the long range I think
00:39:50 ◼ ► they will do it because it just is going to make the watch more delightful to have a lot
00:39:57 ◼ ► of different face options on it and it reduces their burden you know because in the end if
00:40:08 ◼ ► faces which they totally don't it Apple would be better off focusing on foundational face
00:40:15 ◼ ► technology right like the API's for complications and a possibility of contextual complications
00:40:27 ◼ ► but then letting people write their own you know pretty face designs or whatever and focus
00:40:45 ◼ ► with a whole bunch of different options you can end up creating something with thousands
00:40:50 ◼ ► of variations that let you customize it to your personality and if that's true then you
00:41:03 ◼ ► and feel like you've given enough personalization options to people so you know I think.
00:41:26 ◼ ► the different complication types and compatibility is limited you know you and you don't get
00:41:32 ◼ ► access to the old complications on the new faces and it's kind of a mess as it is which
00:41:36 ◼ ► may be why it isn't a third party opportunity right now because it's kind of a mess and
00:41:50 ◼ ► 6 feature and maybe as a part of that you would have either more much more dynamic complications
00:42:01 ◼ ► it's some other people too who are all kind of grumbling about how faces should be better
00:42:12 ◼ ► important part of what that what that device does and clearly it's not getting enough attention
00:42:19 ◼ ► inside Apple and I think all of us who are complaining are hoping that by causing a little
00:42:24 ◼ ► bit of a dust up maybe somebody inside Apple goes see I told you we aren't doing enough
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00:44:12 ◼ ► think it's a little bit of both it seems like a pretty big deal it happens in San Jose and
00:44:16 ◼ ► it confirms the Bloomberg report that we had earlier this year about Photoshop coming to
00:44:30 ◼ ► Photoshop on the iPad and that is like a really good way of explaining what they're doing
00:44:35 ◼ ► they haven't made an iOS version of Photoshop they are taking the new version of Photoshop
00:44:48 ◼ ► toolbars all the controls and layer management unlimited layers and all that kind of stuff
00:44:53 ◼ ► it is a new user interface but Adobe is saying that they are observing a lot of the placement
00:44:58 ◼ ► and actions from existing versions of Photoshop to ensure muscle memory is maintained but
00:45:15 ◼ ► 1.0 and it's the 1.0 across all devices so they're initially going to be shipping a slim
00:45:22 ◼ ► down version with planning to add more functionality over time so they think that this 1.0 will
00:45:29 ◼ ► have the majority of stuff that people need but it's going to be some super powerful features
00:45:50 ◼ ► like I assume there are still some people using 7 but I think over time people got happier
00:45:55 ◼ ► and happier with how that went this version of Photoshop syncs with the desktop version
00:46:01 ◼ ► so they're using cloud psd files as a thing they've created so you can work on the same
00:46:05 ◼ ► file seamlessly so the file lives in the cloud it lives in your creative cloud so you can
00:46:15 ◼ ► Well, I'm so happy as we said before I'm happy and I'm a Photoshop user I'm a creative cloud
00:46:38 ◼ ► like it's not a question the iPad hardware is capable the question has been can you bring
00:47:24 ◼ ► I want but on iPad I don't so you know I'm interested in it it is a the thing that gives
00:47:31 ◼ ► me pause is this conversation that they they had about cloud PSD files which in the verge
00:47:38 ◼ ► has a as a podcast and they also did a transcript of a Q&A that they had with an Adobe exec
00:47:44 ◼ ► that mentions the idea that Photoshop files in the cloud and they you know Niles got it
00:47:55 ◼ ► the you know in-flight wireless to download a giant Photoshop file and the guy from Adobe
00:48:06 ◼ ► it in a cache and you can pull traditional PSDs in and export out traditional PSDs it's
00:48:18 ◼ ► on and that made me feel a little bit better about it the idea is Adobe wants that if you're
00:48:35 ◼ ► the exact same document in the exact same state without you saving it somewhere dragging
00:48:40 ◼ ► it somewhere else you know copying it in editing it there and then putting it back that if
00:48:45 ◼ ► you're working in Photoshop on different devices it's going to use this cloud PSD format to
00:48:50 ◼ ► seamlessly sync that that file and that project across and that's okay I just I just don't
00:48:56 ◼ ► want it to be what Adobe has done with some stuff in the past which is sort of like why
00:49:05 ◼ ► be a member of Creative Cloud to use and my response to that is always no I'm not interested
00:49:11 ◼ ► in that I don't I want to use my Dropbox right so it sounds like you can you can it sounds
00:49:17 ◼ ► like yeah yeah so it sounds like they are they are thinking of the cloud stuff as being
00:49:27 ◼ ► stuff like that but for this purpose it seems like it's more about creating that kind of
00:49:35 ◼ ► So all of the a lot of the product imagery and the demos and stuff that they're showing are including the Apple Pencil.
00:49:42 ◼ ► It seems to be a very important part of this purely because I think that a lot of the controls are pretty small and also you know I think a lot of creative people they use Wacom tablets and stuff like that that they're used to having a stylus and on the
00:49:56 ◼ ► verge cast which Jason mentioned which was an interview with Scott Belsky who's Adobe's chief product officer yes I want to read you a little transcript. The Adobe guy. Just some rando. I want to read you a little part of this.
00:50:10 ◼ ► I feel like some phone calls may be made from Apple to Adobe today so this is a transcript.
00:50:16 ◼ ► We're really excited. I would almost bet that Adobe and Apple are already working on what
00:50:26 ◼ ► But like what I mean is the phone call is because of this. We're really excited about the pencil. I think you'll see the capabilities of this accessory grow over time. We do collaborate with Apple a lot on this. All I can say is it's an important part of the product for the iPad. I think it will grow in importance.
00:50:42 ◼ ► So I picked and chose a little bit from that because Neelay jumps on him because he's so friggin excited that it goes down this route so that's like two sentences smushed together. But what I think that very clearly tells you is exactly that that Apple and Adobe have probably already been working on their presentation.
00:51:00 ◼ ► And I believe, I think this is very clear that Adobe have definitely seen some stuff that's coming over the next few years. I mean we spoke about this when the report came out. This is very much these two companies needing to work together to make this work.
00:51:17 ◼ ► If Adobe are going to make this bet they need to know Apple are in this for the long haul. And Apple need Adobe. They need each other for this to really make this something that goes on to be a good thing. And the Apple Pencil becoming a more important part of the toolkit will 100% make this Photoshop move a good one.
00:51:36 ◼ ► Because what it's showing is pointing devices right and like that these are a thing that should exist on the iPad and maybe the primary one is the Apple Pencil but it doesn't matter how it is because that's what you need for these desktop class apps because the UI is built differently.
00:51:51 ◼ ► So I think that this whole thing including the Apple Pencil thing and this whole thing of Photoshop is really significant. Like this is a big thing for the iPad.
00:52:00 ◼ ► So here's my thinking on it right. Maybe this pushes more people more companies to make this decision.
00:52:07 ◼ ► Or maybe this is just something that Adobe can do because Adobe has a business model that supports this. But either way, this is positive because even if nothing else happens except for the fact that we now have Photoshop on the iPad, that's a big win for the iPad.
00:52:21 ◼ ► Just that on its own. That's huge. But it could also mean that more companies like Microsoft did as well, right, we can't discount Word. Word on the iPad is really good.
00:52:33 ◼ ► But just showing that if you have a business model that supports it or if you can create one that will, the iPad is the place for you.
00:52:42 ◼ ► I wrote a thing about this a while ago when I was complaining about, on the internet like I do apparently, about Photoshop not being real on the iPad. That there's an artist named Jen Bartel and she was detailing her workflow and talking about how she's gotten better on iPad but until real full Photoshop is there, she can't use the iPad even though she really likes the iPad and the Apple Pencil.
00:53:06 ◼ ► And so she's got a mobile studio, like a Wacom mobile studio that's basically running Windows that she can use.
00:53:13 ◼ ► And that's an example of somebody who is an existing Adobe customer and wants to use the iPad and can't. And I think there are a lot of them. I think there are a lot of them out there who appreciate or would consider the iPad Pro and the Apple Pencil, current or future, if they had this other piece which is they need Photoshop.
00:53:33 ◼ ► And you can say, "Well, oh, but they can use this other piece of software that runs on the iPad." And some people can, but a lot of people can't.
00:53:41 ◼ ► And in her case, it has to do with her Adobe specific brushes she uses. Like she wants Photoshop on the iPad and she's going to get it, which is very exciting, right?
00:53:51 ◼ ► And I think there are going to be a lot of people like that who love the hardware, but they are also part of their whole workflow is based on Adobe products and especially Photoshop.
00:54:03 ◼ ► This wasn't all. Adobe had a bunch of other stuff today, which is also encouraging. They have a video app aimed at YouTubers called Premiere Rush.
00:54:13 ◼ ► And it is a version of Premiere, which is like slimmed down and streamlined. It's on all devices, phones and tablets and PCs and stuff like that.
00:54:40 ◼ ► Well, at some point, I think they've got to do something. Then they can update iMovie and that's fine, but I keep thinking to myself, is anybody at Apple thinking that Logic and Final Cut need to be on the iPad Pro?
00:54:54 ◼ ► Now, GarageBand is a light version of Logic and iMovie is a light version of Final Cut Pro.
00:55:05 ◼ ► Is that enough on the iPad Pro to have these kind of light versions that haven't really improved a lot on the iPad in a while?
00:55:13 ◼ ► It is cool to see Adobe trying to rush in here and say, "We've got a YouTuber video editing app that is now available on iPhone and iPad."
00:55:31 ◼ ► Because we've talked about, like, Ferrite, which is what I use on the iPad to edit podcasts.
00:55:36 ◼ ► And, you know, there is no Logic for iPad. Will there be? And what about Final Cut? That's a good example.
00:55:45 ◼ ► Sure, sure. That's a big question, too. So what's Apple's intention for this platform, too, in the long term?
00:55:51 ◼ ► Also, they're working on a drawing and painting app, which is codenamed Project Gemini, which is clearly, well, I would assume, gunning for Procreate.
00:56:05 ◼ ► I think they made a bad bet, which is that they basically made a bet on, "We're going to do fun bite-sized apps for the iPhone."
00:56:11 ◼ ► And then the world went in a little bit of a different direction, and they've had to realign.
00:56:17 ◼ ► And this became part of a larger kind of re-envisioning of what their apps are as sort of across devices.
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00:58:21 ◼ ► "With the increase in phone size and high DPI screens, I'm feeling less inclined to need or want a Kindle.
00:58:28 ◼ ► Do you think this trend will eventually reduce the demand for Kindles or do you think that demand is inherent for other purposes, Jason?"
00:58:36 ◼ ► I think the demand is already reduced by the existence of iPads and iPhones and other phones and tablets.
00:58:43 ◼ ► I think that was the big reducer in demand is for some people a backlit screen or an OLED screen is enough.
00:58:50 ◼ ► I don't think it's going to make a huge impact as long as the physical screen of the device has glare and is basically emitting light rather than reflecting light.
00:59:08 ◼ ► And so for me, I could read a book on my iPhone. I have read books on my iPhone and the XS Max is bigger, so that's nice.
00:59:18 ◼ ► But for me, the reason you get a Kindle is one, no interruptions, no notifications, no one swipe away from other apps.
00:59:26 ◼ ► It's a focused device. It's got very long battery life. And the screen, the E Ink screen, there is a light you can turn on in the dark, but it is a reflective thing.
00:59:39 ◼ ► It is white with black lettering on it that works like paper. The sun shines on it or a light shines on it and then it bounces back in your eyes.
00:59:48 ◼ ► And that is a very different feel than a phone screen. And so is that a niche set of desires? It is.
00:59:56 ◼ ► That's why the Kindle is a niche device. But I do think that nothing in the trends of the phones in the last few years has really made me think, "Oh, well, this is going to kill the Kindle."
01:00:05 ◼ ► The existence of tablets and phones makes the Kindle's audience much smaller because they have to get a dedicated device.
01:00:11 ◼ ► And you can read on these devices just fine. But I would, I, nothing has come, I mean, talk to me when Apple makes an iPad or iPhone that has no glare and doesn't feel like it's shining a light in my face and I'll talk, you know.
01:00:28 ◼ ► But until then, I just don't think that a bigger screen, for most people a bigger screen or a higher DPI is what drives people to the Kindle.
01:00:40 ◼ ► Josh asks, "Do you have any idea on how to distribute live photos? I'd like to freely distribute some movies that I've made into live photos that I've shot with my drone.
01:00:52 ◼ ► But when I export them, I get JPEGs and MOV files." So two parts to this. One, this wasn't a question, but it was something that I thought to myself, "Can you actually make live photos that weren't photos?"
01:01:03 ◼ ► It turns out you can. I found an app. I think this is an API. I didn't find many apps that could do this, but I found an app, a pretty cool app called Into Live where you can take movies and turn them into native live photos.
01:01:14 ◼ ► Just a part of this question that I thought I could give some use to everyone. It exists as a free app, has a bunch of ads in it, but you can remove the ads from an in-app purchase and it has extra functionality. Looked pretty cool.
01:01:24 ◼ ► But the sharing part seems trickier because I mean I've seen people talk about this, but I couldn't really find anything definite. You may know as the photos person that when you share live photos, you can share them individually, right?
01:01:42 ◼ ► Like I could send you an iMessage and you can see the live photo or I can send you via AirDrop and you get the live photo. But there doesn't seem to be a way to allow for that file to be downloaded en masse.
01:01:54 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I feel like live photos for such a fun feature, Apple has done a really bad job of making it available to other people, right?
01:02:06 ◼ ► Yeah, I haven't been able to find a reliable way that will allow you to share them. Like for example, you could share a Dropbox link to a file because whenever I try and export them to Dropbox, I get that like a JPEG and a movie file.
01:02:23 ◼ ► Like you get both. And I've tried it with the HEIC. I've tried it with the settings for HEIC on and off and I couldn't really find a way to do it.
01:02:34 ◼ ► You can make an album and share it. But it's, yeah, it's a mess. My short version of it is it's a mess and I wish that it were better. But it's not.
01:02:52 ◼ ► And there are cases where you can make a shared album and send people a link that's a new, I think, feature. I'm actually trying to do it right now.
01:03:10 ◼ ► By the new sharing stuff. Interesting. That could maybe do it. Alright, so I'm making an iCloud link to an image now and I'm going to send it to Jason via iMessage. And if you can download it, then potentially this is a way to do it.
01:03:27 ◼ ► I guess probably the best thing for you to do is to, I don't know, not open it on an iOS device because then it just goes straight to photos.
01:03:48 ◼ ► I use motion stills to turn live photos into animations, animated chiffs. Or is it pronounced shifts? I don't know.
01:04:04 ◼ ► So, basically, we will throw it to the upgradients. If anybody knows a good way to do this, we'd love to know.
01:04:11 ◼ ► So the ability to try and maybe give somebody a link or some kind of downloadable format, which is a native live photo.
01:04:18 ◼ ► We've tried with this sharing thing and it seems like still, like if Jason picked it up on his iPhone, it'll probably work.
01:04:24 ◼ ► But we want it so you could tweet a link and people could download one of these awesome drone photos from Josh.
01:04:35 ◼ ► Nepali wants to know, Jason, now that the time capsule is dead, are there network drives available that are time machine friendly or can time machine backup over the internet?
01:04:44 ◼ ► I know that there are network attached storage devices that offer time machine compatibility.
01:04:51 ◼ ► So the idea there is that you've got a server in your house that's a storage server and you can back up to it.
01:04:59 ◼ ► So those do exist and you just have to look for time machine compatibility on a NAS device.
01:05:12 ◼ ► And if you've got an Apple device with an SSD, you probably don't have a lot of storage.
01:05:23 ◼ ► And the ones that are compatible will let you set a size for the partition that you want for time machine so that time machine doesn't expand.
01:05:31 ◼ ► It'll expand to fill as much space as you give it so you can give it a very limited amount.
01:05:34 ◼ ► And then when it gets to the end, it'll delete the older files and just kind of keep rolling through the backup.
01:05:43 ◼ ► There are some plugins that claim to do this, but I don't recommend trying using time machine as an internet backup.
01:05:54 ◼ ► If you want to do internet backup, you should use a service that's built for that, that's connecting to their remote servers and compressing data and doing all the things that it needs to do.
01:06:08 ◼ ► I don't buy AppleCare for almost anything, although I did buy it for my iPad, my iMac Pro because it was so expensive that I was like, you know what?
01:06:31 ◼ ► I have been fortunate that the amount of destruction that has happened of devices in my life has never cost me anything close to what I would have been paying on AppleCare.
01:06:41 ◼ ► And so my, I'm, I just, I don't have a negative energy field around me that causes me to break devices all the time.
01:06:48 ◼ ► And so I feel like for me, I know people who are like that and they are, they are very happy to use AppleCare.
01:06:58 ◼ ► In fact, I think the first time I've ever bought AppleCare for anything was the iMac Pro.
01:07:23 ◼ ► Like that feels like you could, you could, you could knock it against something and scratch it, break it in some way.
01:07:42 ◼ ► One of the reasons that I bought AppleCare for my XS Max is because of how expensive it is to replace even the back glass now on these phones.
01:07:53 ◼ ► So I did it because you get a couple of like accidental damage things right now included with, with the, the AppleCare.
01:07:59 ◼ ► I mean, you have to pay a small amount for them, but it feels like something I want to do, especially after destroying my iPad Pro as I did recently.
01:08:07 ◼ ► So I'm a little bit, little bit, I'm warming up to AppleCare a little bit more because I looked at how expensive it would be to replace the iPad screen and not for me.
01:08:41 ◼ ► Maybe one day it will be different, but that is a level of complexity in terms of how it's connected to your phone and all of those things that it's just, it does not work.
01:08:56 ◼ ► Like the non-cellular Apple Watch does, which is it will be tethered to your Apple Watch via Bluetooth and/or Wi-Fi.
01:09:04 ◼ ► And finally today, Landon asked, do you know how the iPad tracks apps for screen time if you're using picture-in-picture and/or split screen?
01:09:14 ◼ ► I asked Federico and he confirmed my suspicion that it tracks them all at the same time.
01:09:22 ◼ ► So if you have Safari and Google Docs both open, they're both getting tracked as being open in screen time.
01:09:33 ◼ ► It matches with my own testing that is tracking everything, which I think is the best thing to do.
01:09:43 ◼ ► If you would like to send in a question for Ask Upgrade, just send it to tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade and it goes into a document for us to pull out in the future.
01:09:58 ◼ ► So if you have any questions that you think would work nicely for that environment, send in a tweet with hashtag #AskUpgrade.
01:10:28 ◼ ► We believe, I still believe, at this point I don't think it's going to be next week because in that instance the invite probably should have gone out last week.
01:10:38 ◼ ► They should probably have already gone out if they were holding it next week, which is good for us in terms of me being in Chicago instead of out here for an Apple event.
01:10:48 ◼ ► But it does suggest that, yeah, I think we are hoping that it will be the last week of October.
01:10:58 ◼ ► Because, because, so here's the thing. If you, if one time you're listening to this, Apple has announced an event for the week of the 29th, which is now what we would, I guess, expect and hope.
01:11:17 ◼ ► It's hard to imagine what would happen if that lines up, right? The idea that we would be drafting an Apple event live on stage.
01:11:34 ◼ ► Wouldn't that be a lot of fun. So that is what we hope will happen is that there will be a live draft.
01:11:39 ◼ ► Now, in the event, so we just want to put this out there because we're saying that we're recording next week.
01:11:44 ◼ ► In the event that there is an Apple event next week, right? Like, doubt it, but just in that event, we are still going to be doing our show in Chicago.
01:11:55 ◼ ► Right. But we will record Flop House Style, an episode that will be a special that will come out probably in November.
01:12:03 ◼ ► Yeah, it'll be an evergreen-ish episode where we can talk about a topic that is not based on the news of the day.
01:12:08 ◼ ► Because the thought here is if they do an Apple event next week, we will delay the real upgrade and do it after the Apple event as we do.
01:12:16 ◼ ► Because, you know, recording an episode one day before an Apple event is never a good idea for this show because we'd be too excited to run the Apple event.
01:12:25 ◼ ► I did that once with the talk show where we did a two-hour episode that was released like four hours before an Apple event in which we speculated on the Apple event.
01:12:32 ◼ ► And I thought, wow, this episode has the smallest expiration date, the nearest expiration date of any podcast I've ever done.
01:12:46 ◼ ► It will be useless. So if that happens, then we will come up with something very clever and funny that is not tied at all with news.
01:13:01 ◼ ► But we're all crossing our fingers here for an event announced for the week of the 29th, this week sometime, so that we can do a live draft episode.
01:13:28 ◼ ► So, very excited about the potentials here. But nevertheless, no matter what we do, we're really excited about doing the first ever Live with an Audience episode of Upgrade.
01:13:43 ◼ ► But otherwise, we'll be back next week. Come Apple event or High Water, we'll be back next week.
01:14:08 ◼ ► Go to relay.fm/shows for that. The show notes for this week are a Relay.fm/upgrade/215.