192: People Like Colors and Fun

0:00:00[Music]

0:00:09From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 192, and today's show is brought to you by Eero,

0:00:16StoryWorth, and Simple Contacts.

0:00:18My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

0:00:22Hello, Jason.

0:00:23Hello, Myke Hurley.

0:00:24How are you?

0:00:25I'm very well, Jason Snell.

0:00:26How are you?

0:00:27I'm doing great.

0:00:28Do anything interesting this last week?

0:00:29Sure did, my friend.

0:00:31I have my bachelor party in Austin, Texas.

0:00:34Oh, nice.

0:00:34With a bunch of my favorite people.

0:00:37But nobody wants to hear about that, Myke.

0:00:39Oh, look at that.

0:00:40We're going to go into our hashtag Snell Talk question.

0:00:42I like that. Very clever. Very clever indeed.

0:00:45You stuck with me right in.

0:00:46You took advantage of my jet lag.

0:00:47Joel wants to know, Jason, if a movie is released in IMAX 3D

0:00:53and as well as regular 2D,

0:00:55do you have a preference of which version you would like to see?

0:00:59Great question, Joel. And my answer is, I don't like 3D movies. I have seen some 3D

0:01:06movies that I thought were fine, that did a good job, but in general, I don't like

0:01:12them. I don't like the fact that because of the way the 3D process works, you generally

0:01:16get a darker picture. I wear glasses, so I don't really like the fact that I spend

0:01:20an entire movie with two pairs of glasses stuck on my face.

0:01:25I hate that so much.

0:01:26It is the worst. So I will always pick a regular 2D movie. IMAX, I've seen some IMAX movies

0:01:33and if it's an IMAX movie, I like them. But a lot of times there's a film that's in IMAX

0:01:39often times, like The Dark Knight I saw and it was at an IMAX theater. And it was, most

0:01:44of the movie was just the movie projected on the giant IMAX screen and then there were

0:01:49some parts of it that were shot in IMAX that were at the IMAX ratio and then they went

0:01:53back to the other aspect ratio. My only IMAX movie was Blade Runner 2048 and that had some

0:02:00IMAX stuff in it and it was glorious, right? Like it looked wonderful. Yeah, it looks great.

0:02:06It's a little bit weird but I don't have an IMAX theater near me, honestly. Well, I mean

0:02:11near me. In my county I don't have any. I would have to go to kind of the far side of

0:02:15San Francisco or out into the East Bay which means I never go to IMAX movies and I try

0:02:20to avoid the 3D movies. In fact, and we'll put a link in the show notes, I own what are

0:02:26called 2D glasses. I've never seen these and this is maybe one of the best things I've

0:02:31ever come across. So if you go to a 3D movie and you don't want to see 3D, you wear these.

0:02:38That's hilarious. And what it does is, you know, the way 3D movies work is that the two

0:02:43lenses are polarized differently so that you see two different images and that's how 3D

0:02:49works is that they give you that depth sensation. 2D glasses are only one side, and so it flattens

0:02:59the image. I will say, for people who are maybe thinking sort of like, "What about the

0:03:04purity of the 3D image?" I'll just point out, almost every movie made now that's in 3D is

0:03:09faked. They have a -- if you look in the credits, like, Infinity War is a good example of this.

0:03:14If you sit through the credits of any movie, and a Marvel movie is a good one to sit through

0:03:17the credits through because you want to see what happens in the post-credits sequence,

0:03:21you will see an entire section of names that are the people who did the 3D conversion because

0:03:283D cameras are really heavy and hard to use and most people don't bother. They just shoot

0:03:33it in 2D and let some company sit there and apply fake depth in order to give that 3D

0:03:39effect. And if you like 3D movies, that's great, but I don't care for it. I don't think

0:03:43it's really necessary. I try to avoid them and I have 2D glasses for when I actually

0:03:48want to avoid them. I also did, in order to cure one of the other issues we've got, I

0:03:54have bought but haven't used yet, some 3D clip-ons. The idea there is, well, what if

0:04:00I go to a 3D movie and I can clip some little 3D lenses onto my glasses and don't have that

0:04:06second set of plastic over my face? And it's compatible with most of the 3D theaters. So

0:04:12So I've got those, and the next time I end up at a 3D showing, I'm going to try those.

0:04:19I've used the 2D glasses before, and they worked just fine. But the 3D clip-ons I'm

0:04:25going to give a try. We'll put links into the show notes. I haven't used it yet, but

0:04:29if you're curious about that. But Joel, my standard answer here is 2D works for me. In

0:04:35fact, when they started doing MoviePass and the MoviePass service, where you pay a certain

0:04:39amount of money and you can see a certain amount of movies that keeps changing. One

0:04:44of their restrictions is no 3D because of course 3D movies cost more. That's why they

0:04:48do them so they can charge you more for them and create an experience that you can't get

0:04:52at home. And I was okay with movie pass being like, "Oh no no, 2D only." Like, "Oh, what

0:04:58a shame. I can only see a 2D movie." That's what I want to see.

0:05:01I just said while we're talking about movies, absolutely no spoilers, but I enjoyed Infinity

0:05:06you wore more the second time. Me too. Sorry for a second time this past week and I enjoyed

0:05:10it more. Me too and I will also say as an aside it was my first time in an Alamo draft

0:05:14house and I loved it. Which is a wild experience. I have to say I looked at that and I thought

0:05:20this is how the movies stay in business. This is how people keep going to movies is stuff

0:05:25like this because I loved it. I loved it all. I loved the reserved seats which I know a

0:05:28lot of movie theaters have reserved seats now but none in my area do. I love the reserved

0:05:32seats. I love the fact that we, you know, order food and it's delivered and if I

0:05:38want another beer during the show I just write it on a piece of paper and stick

0:05:41it on on the little thing in front of me and somebody comes by and brings me a

0:05:44beer and then at the end I sign my credit card slip and it's done. It's

0:05:48amazing. That's so funny like when the person's like crawling down and they

0:05:53like hand the beer up to you it's a it's a very weird experience but a good one

0:05:57at the same time. Yeah, yeah, so thumbs up to a second viewing of Infinity War

0:06:02thumbs up to the Alamo Drafthouse, thumbs down to 3D.

0:06:06I think I agree with basically everything you just said. I stopped going to 3D movies

0:06:12a while ago, I just wasn't interested in it anymore. It just wasn't necessary for me because

0:06:18it felt like more and more of it was being hamfisted.

0:06:21And it's more expensive, right? They charge you more for it. That's the other part of

0:06:24it. If somebody is wondering, by the way, why is it that I am sometimes forced to go

0:06:27to a 3D movie. It's mostly about logistics. Whether it is I need to see something quickly

0:06:36for a podcast, which does happen, or whether it's my family can only go at a certain time.

0:06:43And we don't live, the closest theater to us does not have a lot of screens. In fact,

0:06:47the closest theater to us has one screen, which is great. But, and it's a great experience,

0:06:52except if the timing is that the only time we can take the kids is on a Saturday at this

0:06:56time and it's a 3D showing, well, we're going to go to the 3D showing. If we can avoid it,

0:07:01we do, but we can't always avoid it. And likewise, if the timing, if I need to go see a movie,

0:07:05now that I have movie pass, this is probably less so where like I'm really going to try

0:07:09to use that and not do a 3D showing, but it does happen sometimes where you just end up

0:07:14at a 3D showing. So it's not as if a big burly man comes and says, "You will go to the 3D

0:07:19movie now." Like it's not quite like that, but it's just expediency. But if I can avoid

0:07:23yeah it's cheaper and I don't need to see it and I kind of don't want to see

0:07:26it which is why I bought the 2d glasses. Do you know if the new Avatar movies are

0:07:30being shot in 3d again? Oh of course of course. Because I would see that right

0:07:35because I saw the original Avatar 3d and it was incredible in 3d. I agree I mean

0:07:39the list I can make a list of 3d movies that I really liked I liked Avatar I

0:07:43liked Tron Legacy in 3d I thought it looked really cool and Hugo is the one I

0:07:50keep mentioning. Because yes, Martin Scorsese made a 3D movie that's a family movie and

0:07:56it's called Hugo. And not only is it a good movie, but it is beautiful in 3D because you

0:08:01were seeing a master working with the best cinematographers and they were like, "Okay,

0:08:09we're going to make this in 3D. We're going to make it really good." And it was really

0:08:13good. But then I've seen all sorts of summer blockbusters in 3D and it just kind of leaves

0:08:18me cold, it doesn't really do anything for me. There are occasional moments where you

0:08:22think "oh well that looks pretty cool in 3D" but most of the time I find it distracting

0:08:27and unnecessary. And plus it does make the movie darker.

0:08:30I'm really happy about the fact that it feels like the trend of a thing happens in a movie

0:08:36just because it's going to be in 3D seems to have died away. There's a scene where like

0:08:42"oh and it's all coming to the screen!" you know, there's been a big crash and there's

0:08:47debris flying directly at you like it feels like some of that's died off which is good because

0:08:51you watch a 2d movie and you're like oh that was the big 3d effect that i didn't get to see because

0:08:57i didn't want to see that i think in star trek is it maybe star trek or star trek into darkness that

0:09:02there's a uh the warp drive is in 3d and i was like oh that was cute but it's like literally

0:09:06the only thing that made me excited about the 3d in that movie so you know it's just uh it's i

0:09:12I don't think it's necessary. It's fine if you like it. Obviously it works enough, although

0:09:19I've read stories that say that audiences are lukewarm about 3D and that it is more

0:09:24like they go because it's the time that's convenient for them and that some people are

0:09:29unhappy when they have to put the glasses on. But as long as it is something that can

0:09:33boost the--the bottom line, we talked about the Alamo Drafthouse--bottom line is the movie

0:09:38movie theaters are trying to find ways to get people to come to the movie theater because

0:09:43it's a good experience instead of staying home. And having movies that are exclusive

0:09:48is part of it, and that's always been the case since home video happened. There's a

0:09:52period where you need to see the movie in the theater and that's fine. But it is now

0:09:56about nice seats, they bring you food, they let you reserve your seats, and 3D is one

0:10:02of those things that's kind of on that list of, especially since 3D TV didn't take off,

0:10:07if you want to see the 3D version of anything, you gotta see it in the movie theater because

0:10:11after that you're basically never going to see it again until some other 3D tech comes

0:10:14along. Maybe with higher quality VR goggles, maybe 3D will come back in that format because

0:10:22you need to have the special glasses basically to do 3D. Or they'll invent some amazing 3D

0:10:27TV that requires no glasses. But the industry's attempt to make 3D TV happen failed and it's

0:10:33going to be a while before they try again. So it's on the list of things. Good Sound,

0:10:38theoretically, is on that list too. And anything else they can do to make it a more pleasant

0:10:43experience. And I believe they can do it. Going to the Alamo Drafthouse convinced me

0:10:48of that. There are ways to make the movie theater experience a nice one that people

0:10:52actually are excited about doing. I'm not convinced 3D is a big part of that strategy,

0:10:57but I get why it's a part of the strategy. Plus, it lets them raise the ticket price

0:11:00for a lot of showings because they charge extra for 3D.

0:11:04It's an extra fee they get to charge.

0:11:06If you would like to send in a Snail Talk question, just send out a tweet with the hashtag

0:11:10SnailTalk and it goes into a document for us to pull later on.

0:11:13Thank you to Joel for his excellent question this week.

0:11:16I wanted to just give a piece of follow up, Jason, in regards to Yoav's #AskUpgrade question

0:11:22last week where Yoav asked about finding a way to get rid of duplicates basically from

0:11:30photos app. So when you have a shared file, a shared album of photos and you want to download

0:11:37them or you end up with a bunch of duplicates. And whilst we don't have a great way to solve

0:11:41that problem, Nash has a great way to get rid of the duplicates once you've got them

0:11:46as an app that he uses called Best Photos, which will allow you to detect and remove

0:11:52duplicate photos from your iOS photo library. So this isn't a complete solution to your

0:11:57problem, but it can fix it on the other end.

0:11:59and I'll mention I kind of steered away from the post import scenario because

0:12:06there are a bunch of options there and that wasn't quite what what he asked but

0:12:10I'll mention power photos from fat cats off where they are an occasional six

0:12:14color sponsor so they just sponsored the site a couple weeks ago so there's my

0:12:18disclaimer but I've used it I mentioned it in the book that I wrote about photos

0:12:22and it is the successor to their iPhoto library manager product and basically it

0:12:27does all sorts of stuff including deduping, letting you merge libraries,

0:12:30letting you separate libraries. So if you're trying to do like

0:12:33stuff that Photos doesn't do, it's worth looking. I think they've got a demo

0:12:37version that you can try with PowerPhotos from Fat Cat. So I'll put

0:12:42that in the show notes too. Because I guess if there isn't a way to fix it on the front end,

0:12:47yeah, you can detect the duplicates later and that is not ideal, right?

0:12:53you'd prefer it to be smart about detecting duplicates, but a lot of stuff, writing about

0:12:58photos for the last few years, I get a lot of emails are like, why doesn't it do this?

0:13:03And my response is always like, because it doesn't because I mean, like, literally, my

0:13:07goal is to show you what you can do and how you can work around it. You almost have to

0:13:12have to view the app as a force of nature, almost like, look, it just doesn't do it.

0:13:17So it's like, we could complain. That's fine about the fact that it doesn't strip out the

0:13:21duplicates in some scenarios, but it doesn't. So what are you going to do? And the answer

0:13:27is find a way to fix that because Apple hasn't fixed it yet. So there are some options there.

0:13:33Jason, I believe you have some upstream news for me this week.

0:13:37I do. I have some "doo doo doo doo" upstream news. That's not the theme song for upstream.

0:13:43I just was trying it out, but it didn't work. Little horn. Well, so last week was something

0:13:49called Newfronts, which is this totally weird thing. To back it up, there's a thing called

0:13:54Upfronts, which is when TV networks go to New York and they do a bunch of, it's like

0:13:58a dog and pony show for advertisers, for the biggest advertisers. And what they're trying

0:14:02to do is say, "Here are all these great things that we're doing and you should give us advertising

0:14:08because aren't we awesome?" And that means that Upfronts has become also a media dog

0:14:13and pony show for the networks to talk about their new fall seasons and what their strategies

0:14:18are. And the New Fronts are an attempt by new media companies that are also wanting

0:14:26to reach with advertisers. So it's basically like, "Well, we want to do Upfronts too, so

0:14:29we're going to do this thing called New Fronts." There's also a thing, I think, called Podfronts

0:14:32that is by podcast networks. You remember that? Where we saw Lex Friedman got up on

0:14:39stage and talked about how great Midroll was and the people from Panoply and all that.

0:14:46Anyway, everybody wants to do a dog and pony show in New York City is basically the story

0:14:50because you wouldn't want to be in New York City. It's a great city. So, New Fronts was

0:14:54Hulu, YouTube, Netflix, I think. Well, maybe Netflix wasn't there because they don't have

0:14:58any ads. Anyway, Hulu was there, YouTube was there, some other streaming services were

0:15:02there, and they made some news. So, Hulu was at the New Fronts and they announced they

0:15:07have 20 million subscribers. They're US only. They grew four million in, I think, four or

0:15:12months. So Hulu showing a lot of growth. One of the challenges with Hulu is it's a US only

0:15:18service right now. It's not just that their 20 million subs are US only, which is actually

0:15:21a pretty good number in the US, but what's the rest of their strategy? We've talked about

0:15:26how Hulu is going to be, if the Disney/Fox merger goes through, majority owned by Disney,

0:15:33and there's a question of sort of like what happens to it? What's its fate? Does it keep

0:15:36its other owners or does Disney buy them out? Does Disney use Hulu as the place where its

0:15:42content that's more adult-oriented, the stuff from Fox and FX goes to, and maybe even some

0:15:47of the stuff from ABC, instead of going to the other Disney streaming services. The Ham

0:15:54Maid's Tale is like their number one show. It's a success across the board among viewers

0:15:58and critics and it's won a lot of awards, so they crowed about that a little bit. And

0:16:03they pointed out, again, that their catalogue is all about TV, which I think is interesting.

0:16:07Like, it's a TV brand. They have more TV content than any of their competitors. If you think

0:16:11about it that's kind of interesting because they've been as I think Netflix

0:16:14and Amazon have been less interested in having a massive library of old TV shows

0:16:19and things like that they kind of want some hits and they want originals and

0:16:22they want movies who is all about TV and then they also have a live TV service

0:16:27that they introduced that's the over-the-top you know cable replacement

0:16:31that will show you like shows and channels as they're running live so

0:16:35that's that's what's going on with Hulu and then YouTube was also there and they

0:16:41made some news. So they premiered their new original series on YouTube Red, Cobra Kai,

0:16:45which is the sequel to the Karate Kid movies, which has gotten pretty good reviews actually,

0:16:50as far as I've seen, which is kind of surprising and funny. And they also gave kind of a weird

0:16:56presentation where I think the money line from the CEO of YouTube who's Susan Wojcicki,

0:17:03I don't know how to pronounce that name.

0:17:06I think it's Wojcicki.

0:17:07Wojcicki? All right, it's a Polish name. Anyway, she said there is not a playbook for how open

0:17:12platforms operate at our scale. So it's an admission of weakness. Why is that important?

0:17:17Well, open platforms at scale is all about, remember, she's talking to advertisers. One

0:17:22of the challenges about having ads in an open platform like YouTube is, you guessed it,

0:17:29your ads as these very carefully planned and maybe uptight advertisers are working on their

0:17:36ad campaigns and then their ad gets put next to something violent, something sexual, something

0:17:42racist and that totally happens with YouTube.

0:17:47Or just something that becomes controversial for whatever reason.

0:17:50Exactly.

0:17:51And most advertisers don't want to be attached to anything controversial.

0:17:53They want to be just blend in and be in the background.

0:17:57YouTube also has its own YouTube TV, live TV over the top streaming service.

0:18:01So there's another aspect where YouTube is doing that, Hulu is doing that.

0:18:05Anyway, I thought both of those stories were interesting just as a way of YouTube doing

0:18:11some original content that is also interesting because we think of YouTube as a brand that

0:18:15is very much focused on young people and their original content is a show that will appeal

0:18:22to Gen Xers in terms of nostalgia, which I think is a funny thing, but I think they're

0:18:28trying to broaden.

0:18:29I think between this and the YouTube TV over the top service, they're trying to like...

0:18:34YouTube Red isn't just for my son, it's for me too is what they're trying to say there.

0:18:38Right, that's interesting.

0:18:39The person who's probably actually going to be paying the bill in the first place.

0:18:43It's true, it's true.

0:18:44I am the one who pays that bill, so that's exactly right.

0:18:47And then Hulu I think is interesting because there's a lot of questions like, I think Hulu's

0:18:50actually a pretty good service, but there are so many different questions about like,

0:18:54how do they build subscribers?

0:18:55Are they going to go outside the US?

0:18:57What's Disney going to do?

0:18:58Because it's potential that in a year or two what we're going to realize is that Hulu is

0:19:02Disney's worldwide content strategy for streaming stuff that appeals to adults.

0:19:11That's not their sports strategy or their Disney-branded, Disney-Marvel-Star Wars-branded

0:19:17thing that's going to skew a little bit younger, but that it's their strategy for

0:19:21everything else. And that would be an interesting competitor. Also, if they are all about TV,

0:19:28that gives them another little talking point, right? Like that they pick up all the TV,

0:19:34whereas Netflix and Amazon maybe are more concerned with their own programming rather

0:19:39than like picking up programming from other places and putting it in their service. So

0:19:43that I'm fascinated by where Hulu's going to go in the next couple of years because

0:19:50there's a lot of potential there. Or it could just go nowhere. That's also possible. But

0:19:53they do seem to be growing and they seem to have some sort of a plan, but we'll see.

0:19:58Netflix has released a remixed version of the fourth season of Arrested Development.

0:20:05This is super weird.

0:20:06Yeah, okay, it's weird and there's even a weirder backstory here.

0:20:11Because Mitch Hurwitz, who is the creator of Arrested Development, he actually did this

0:20:15a long time ago.

0:20:16We talked about this on the podcast I do with Tim Goodman in July of 2016.

0:20:23So a year and a half ago, we talked about this.

0:20:27up two years ago we talked about this and Tim wrote a story we can put in the

0:20:30show notes in July of 2016 Mitch Hurwitz said he and told him he'd recut the

0:20:37original fourth season so this was the Netflix original season of Arrested

0:20:41Development it got kind of mixed reviews it was weirdly shot because they got the

0:20:46different actors at different points and so what he they ended up releasing this

0:20:50thing that was almost like Rashomon style it was like different perspectives

0:20:53It was 15 episodes long. The episodes were, keeping in mind the standard sitcom and the

0:20:59first three seasons of Arrested Development were about 22 minutes each. These episodes

0:21:03were 30 minutes all the way up to like 42 minutes long. They were longer, there were

0:21:07fewer of them, there were 15, and they were in these kind of blocks of like this character's

0:21:12story and you'd see them cross over with other characters and then the next episode you'd

0:21:16see a different character's story and you'd see them cross over. It was a very different

0:21:19format for the show. And my daughter, who's been watching Arrested Development, had that

0:21:25same comment and she doesn't know the history. She was just like, "Yeah, that four seasons

0:21:28were really strange. Like, it's not like the first three seasons." Well, what Mitch Hurwitz

0:21:33told Tim in July 16 is he actually went back and edited a new version of season four that

0:21:41works like the traditional first three seasons. He got Ron Howard to do new narration. They

0:21:45used some shots that are not the same shots. It's a different thing. It's got some different

0:21:49material in it, and it's 22 minute episodes. Like it's just the old show the way it was

0:21:57done instead of this new format. And that he had done that, and Netflix didn't want

0:22:03it basically. And he said it was just sitting on a shelf, or probably more accurately sitting

0:22:07on a hard drive somewhere. But he had gone back and made a new version of the show. And

0:22:12at the time, Tim wrote about it, people were tweeting about it, everybody who's an Arrested

0:22:16development fan went bananas about this and I was baffled by why Netflix

0:22:22wouldn't do anything with it because it's like the same content and you know

0:22:26other than a contractual thing it's possible that like they would need to

0:22:30pay 20th television I think is the is the producer of it more money for an

0:22:35alternate version but I kept thinking to myself streaming shows and services like

0:22:41this is the perfect way like yeah put out an alternate version that's cool

0:22:45"Why don't you do that? And why wouldn't you do that if you're Netflix?" Well, almost two

0:22:51years later, and with a fifth season apparently in production, now Netflix apparently -- my

0:22:57guess is Netflix thought, "Well, now we can start warming up people for the new season

0:23:01of Arrested Development and get them excited about it by doing this recut version of season

0:23:06four. Perhaps this is why they would pay the money and do the promotion to do it." But

0:23:10they finally did it. After sitting on a -- probably sitting in a hard drive of Mitch Hurwitz for

0:23:14a couple of years. Last Friday they released this remixed Arrested Development season 4.

0:23:22So people who are fans of that show and maybe who didn't like season 4 or didn't watch it

0:23:26might want to give it a go because it's apparently a more standard take consistent with the first

0:23:32three seasons. And I just love this story because this is a creator taking advantage

0:23:39of the fact that they've got all this content to do an alternate version of the show that

0:23:43they made and the the streaming service can just post it and then you've got an

0:23:48alternate version it's a little bit like how a lot of the sitcoms especially the

0:23:52Michael Schur sitcom so like The Office and Parks and Recreation and The Good

0:23:57Place and Brooklyn Nine-Nine a lot of those shows they would drop the the

0:24:02episode would air at 22 minutes and then on iTunes the next day they would drop

0:24:06like a 38 minute version that was the one that they wanted to release but it

0:24:10didn't fit in the time slot. And in most cases, those are the versions that are on Netflix,

0:24:15which I think is great because that means in the long run, that's the real version of

0:24:19the show, not the one that ran on a network with commercials. And I think, again, that's

0:24:25the brilliance of the world we live in now that you can do that, that there's not just

0:24:29sort of like, we do it once and then we walk away forever. And how could we even offer

0:24:33another version of it? And here, Mitch Hurwitz has done an entire different season of his

0:24:39same season. It's really cool. So I haven't watched them yet, but I'm really excited to

0:24:43watch them because I think it's a great idea. It's just strange that it took two years.

0:24:46So the new season's coming out at the end of May, and they released a new trailer.

0:24:49Oh good! That goes alongside it.

0:24:51So there you go. So it's part of the promotion of the new season.

0:24:54Yeah. And something that I find interesting though, the original season four has been

0:24:59replaced with this new one. Oh interesting. So it's not alongside, they

0:25:03just put it in there. I can't find the original season four.

0:25:07It just says "Season 1, 2, 3" and then "Season 4 remix, fateful consequences."

0:25:12Interesting.

0:25:13Interesting.

0:25:14That's the list you get now.

0:25:15Yeah, well, it's also possible that Netflix and Hurwitz talked about it and they're like,

0:25:17"Yeah, this is better.

0:25:19Nobody liked it the way we did it.

0:25:20Let's just replace it and never..."

0:25:22Because at this point, your viewers of that are people who are binging, which means they

0:25:28are not seeing the context of the show going off the air for a few years and then coming

0:25:32back.

0:25:33Instead all they're seeing is that this thing happened and we move from season three

0:25:40last episode to season four first episode and like, "Whoa, what happened?"

0:25:43So you just remove it and it's not a problem anymore.

0:25:45All right, should we take a break, Jason?

0:25:46Yeah, it's a great idea.

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0:28:28and Relay FM. So over the weekend there was an anniversary, a very important anniversary,

0:28:35it was the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the iMac. This is the computer we know,

0:28:42the iMac G3 as it became kind of colloquially known later on because there were multiple

0:28:48versions of it but this is the Bondi blue and white case that you'll be very familiar with.

0:28:54So this was this happened over the weekend it's been 20 years since it was introduced on stage

0:29:00by Steve Jobs in 1998 and I want to talk about a few things about this JSON but what I don't

0:29:06necessarily want to go through is the introduction itself because we've done that already. We did.

0:29:12In May 2016, we had Stephen Hackett on the show because at this time, I think he was coming towards

0:29:18the end of his project of collecting all of the IMAX. And we spoke about kind of the announcement

0:29:24and you told some stories about what it was like when you were working at Macworld then, right?

0:29:29Uh, yeah, I was in Macworld then, right. Yeah, no, Stephen told his stories, I told my stories,

0:29:33and you sat patiently while we talked and perhaps doodled or colored or went away.

0:29:39I cannot and I will not answer that question. I wanted to look at kind of in context 20 years ago

0:29:48this product and then kind of looking at how it relates to products of today. So I think first I

0:29:55wanted to kind of get from you a feeling of this iMac what mark did it leave on Apple? Like do we

0:30:02see anything else that is a parallel today, good or bad, with this product that maybe

0:30:09because of its success kind of became ingrained in the company?

0:30:13I mean, it's always hard to point at one thing or one moment and say that's when it all changed,

0:30:19right? Because the truth is that what they said later is they started this project the

0:30:25day Steve Jobs came back in July of the previous year, like that that was when they kicked

0:30:29it off. And that there were, this is the Columbus project and they ended up shipping these things

0:30:36and there was, internally there was a lot of turmoil. In fact, you and I were fortunate

0:30:41to spend some time with a friend of ours who was actually, who was on the iMac software

0:30:46team, the original iMac software team. Like, they were working on this for a long time

0:30:50and there was a lot of there. So, we can point to the moment that it surfaced publicly and

0:30:55say there's the moment but obviously huge amounts of work went in before then

0:30:59and after that announcement to get that product to ship right I mean it was it

0:31:04was a huge amount of work but it is on another level I could you point to it

0:31:09and say what what do they have here like they took the old ports away the it's

0:31:16actually funny Stephen Hackett and I were talking about this yesterday it's

0:31:20fun the Macworld story on this actually mentioned something called chirp which

0:31:23which not a lot of people remember, and I may actually dig through my old magazines

0:31:28and write something about this, or Stephen will, that there was this idea to create this

0:31:32common hardware reference platform, which is, I think, what Chirp stood for, and it

0:31:38was the idea of, like, could you make a PowerPC-based computer that was like a standard PC, just

0:31:44like an Intel PC was a standard PC, something that everybody who made a PowerPC-based computer,

0:31:49and at that point there were, like, different companies making them, not just Mac clones

0:31:53but like for different operating systems and all, and IBM really wanted people to use,

0:31:57and Motorola to use the PowerPC, and they thought maybe it would be a viable alternative

0:32:02to an Intel standard PC, would be this chirp standard PC.

0:32:06So was the idea that by doing this, other people would make Macs? Is that the idea?

0:32:12Well, I mean, I think that the clones was part of that story, but it was also the idea

0:32:16that like if you were Motorola or IBM or somebody else and you wanted to do, or be actually

0:32:22is another example with the BOS, which was considered at one point a possibility as a

0:32:26replacement for the Mac OS, that if you, or quite honestly, if it had been successful,

0:32:32Microsoft could have done a PowerPC version of Windows and written to the common platform.

0:32:38The idea was they wanted to create this common platform that basically any computer that

0:32:44was running a PowerPC processor would look like. And it didn't happen, basically. There

0:32:49There were some chirp devices shipped, including I think the Motorola Mac clone was a chirp

0:32:55computer, although I'm not 100% on that because Motorola did actually ship its own Mac clone

0:32:59at one point.

0:33:01But it all fell apart and of course Steve Jobs killed the clones and that was the end

0:33:05of it.

0:33:06But why I bring up chirp now...

0:33:07And the clone wars, right?

0:33:08And the clone wars, yeah, that was right.

0:33:10They fought, Darth Vader and Steve Jobs fought together in the clone wars.

0:33:13That's right.

0:33:14Tell your kids.

0:33:16That's the story.

0:33:17So, I bring it up because in the Macworld article, it actually quotes an Apple product

0:33:24manager as saying that the iMac project picked up a lot of the stuff from Chirp.

0:33:29So even though Apple didn't make a Chirp Mac, it used that stuff in order to, you know,

0:33:35simplify and modernize and it still used that as a jumping off point in terms of building

0:33:39the iMac.

0:33:40And what that got them was a modern Mac and a break from the past.

0:33:44And I think what's interesting about that is not Apple participating in kind of an industry

0:33:49consortium to build something, which is not a thing that they do a lot today, but the

0:33:54idea that Apple used that tech to do what it wanted to do, which is make a clean break.

0:33:59And you see echoes of that in all sorts of other times that they have dropped features.

0:34:04We joke about all the features that get dropped from Apple's devices.

0:34:07The optical drives went away at some point, and USB-A went away.

0:34:11The MacBook only has the one thing.

0:34:12headphone jack went away on the iPhone when they went from dock

0:34:17connector to lightning. People complained about that, like, that Apple is fearless

0:34:20about doing that. So that's part of it. And the design forward is part of it

0:34:27too. Like, there were a couple of Macs—I read a story today that said this was

0:34:31the one where Apple's design language came forward. And it's like, well, again,

0:34:36the story's a little more complicated than that. The Power Mac G3, the beige one,

0:34:41had this weird plastic like green translucent plastic thing on it that was

0:34:47like it was like Johnny Ive trying to let me out let me out I want to do

0:34:51something interesting I put a green plastic thing somewhere. And then

0:34:55they did I don't think the Wall Street PowerBook G3 gets enough credit those

0:34:58were crazy looking at the time they had these black laptops with kind of a rubberized

0:35:04surface and the white Apple logo on the back like they were so different from

0:35:11the previous PowerBook G3 that preceded them, that you could tell that Apple was doing some

0:35:19really different things from design standpoint, even though that was probably a product that

0:35:23was in the works, and at most they sort of agreed to pump up the design stuff a little

0:35:28bit and make it look a little more interesting in the time that they had. And that came out

0:35:32a couple months before the iMac was announced, right? So you could get the sense that things

0:35:36were starting to happen design-wise, but then you look at the iMac, and like, the iMac design

0:35:41design is unlike anything that was out there. It was incredibly influential in the computer

0:35:46industry and outside the computer industry. Basically, I would say in the plastics industry,

0:35:51everybody who made plastic things suddenly said, "Oh, we can finally, somebody is allowing

0:35:56us," because I think they could always do it, right? The question was like nobody wanted

0:36:00translucent plastic and colored plastic, brightly colored plastic. And once Apple did the iMac,

0:36:06like every kitchen appliance and clock radio and everything else was available

0:36:11in a translucent, bright plastic version.

0:36:15It became premium, right? In the same way that making everything white became premium after the iPod.

0:36:20It's like everybody agreed that nothing could be anything but black, white, or beige,

0:36:23and then Apple was like, "Yeah, we're making a bright blue computer, and good luck.

0:36:27Just deal with it." And everybody was like, "Oh, people like colors and fun.

0:36:33Maybe we should do that." And that was a big part of it, too.

0:36:36So I think you see that today.

0:36:38I will use this as my monthly request for more color

0:36:41in Apple devices.

0:36:42Yeah, well, I think you see it, but it comes and goes, right?

0:36:45And right now, Apple stuff is like, well, everybody

0:36:48get excited, because not only is there silver,

0:36:50now there's a slightly darker silver that we call space gray.

0:36:54And it's not like, more shades of gray, it's very exciting.

0:36:57And occasionally, some product will get gold,

0:37:00and then there will be the product red.

0:37:01Is that one red one?

0:37:02Yeah, that's six months later.

0:37:04Did you wait for the red one?

0:37:05So yes, I agree there should be more color in Apple products.

0:37:08That would be something that I would like them to come back to.

0:37:11But if you remember like the iPod Nanos and all of that,

0:37:13like they, that was the same kind of approach too.

0:37:17So I think that those are some of the places where you see this culture that

0:37:22Steve Jobs was basically building at that point that continues on to this day that

0:37:27is in the DNA of Apple and the iMac was the first like full representation of all

0:37:33of that and it evolved and changed as everything does but I think that it was a clear first

0:37:40100% step in that direction.

0:37:42So whilst if you look at any kind of successful company, person, entity, you can kind of draw

0:37:48a line between all of the dots to see if they're, you know, to go to the success. You know,

0:37:54you could be like, "Oh, they had that teacher and then they went to that class," or that

0:37:57kind of thing.

0:37:58I wonder if we have a special case here when it comes to the iMac G3 when I ask this question,

0:38:04which is, would we have the iPhone today if the iMac never existed?

0:38:08So going back to my previous point about like pointing to a moment, in my article that I

0:38:13wrote on Six Colors about this, I said, and again, I hesitate because there's no such

0:38:19thing as a moment. That is all stagecraft. Like it's months and years of work that lead

0:38:26to that moment. But in terms of the outside world, if you watch that keynote from the

0:38:31Flint Center, and I wasn't there, because at that point, I suspect Apple was calling

0:38:37us in for briefings, thinking they had something to show us, and in the chaos of the early

0:38:42days of Steve Jobs, then they ended up not. Because we had a couple briefings where nothing

0:38:46happened and we're like, "Why did we come down here? You've got nothing to say." And

0:38:49so for this one, it was a little like the boy who cried wolf. We're like, "Yeah, sure,

0:38:53got something else and so only our editor-in-chief went. But if you watch that video, the first

0:38:59half hour of it, or 20 minutes of it, it's amazing. It's like Steve Jobs is sort of like

0:39:05saying, "We're not gonna die." He puts up a chart about employee retention and says,

0:39:12"People aren't quitting at Apple as fast as they used to. That's really good. So we're

0:39:16doing better. This is no longer a place that people are trying to escape."

0:39:20i'm really pleased reports you that apples back on track when you have great

0:39:24people the most important thing is to not lose them when i came back to apple

0:39:29last summer apples was a lot of them nutrition rate analyzed was thirty three

0:39:34percent and i'm very pleased to say the ten months later nutrition rate is

0:39:38fifteen percent and part of that is because people now see how apple can win

0:39:43again another part of that is 'cause we've made apple much more

0:39:46entrepreneurial place all the key employees have lots of stock options

0:39:49boy those presentations are different then. Right? And it was like, you know, and the

0:39:54Mac sales are going pretty well and, you know, we had the PowerBook G3, that Wall Street

0:39:58G, and it's really good and we're gonna, I think they made like some adjustments to it,

0:40:02but it basically had been out for a couple of months. There was a lot of Phil Schiller

0:40:06coming out on stage to demo like various PCs from Compaq and Dell against Macs so that

0:40:15they could show the megahertz myth because in those days what they were trying to do

0:40:18do is say that even though the PowerPC G3 processor had a lower clock speed than a bunch

0:40:22of the Pentium IIs, that they were actually faster. You couldn't just compare the megahertz

0:40:28that you had to say like this 333 G3 was actually faster than a 400 Pentium II. But they had

0:40:35to do like bake-offs where they like start Photoshop results and then Steve and Phil

0:40:39would stand there and watch as the computers like worked in split screen. It was super

0:40:45weird.

0:40:46Tell us about your computer here.

0:40:47here to come out and try to take you on head-to-head because you asked me to go

0:40:51out and get the biggest and the best and I did. This is the brand new Compaq

0:40:54Armada 7800. It's got a Pentium II, the new mobile Pentium II 266. That's the

0:41:00fastest speed it runs at. It's just been announced. You can't get much better than

0:41:03this. I'm scared. So we're just gonna have to find out. Now up on this screen on

0:41:10your left we have the Compaq Armada Pentium II 266. In the middle we have our

0:41:16new PowerBook G3 running at 233 megahertz and on the far right we have

0:41:21the G3 running at 292 megahertz. Of course both of these machines are less

0:41:25money than the Compaq. So let's go ahead. What we're gonna do now is we're gonna

0:41:28run Photoshop. What a lot of our customers like to do and have been dying

0:41:32to do on a fast portable. So we've got Photoshop here and we've got exactly the

0:41:36same file on all of these computers. But it's all about like I need to justify

0:41:42that Apple still exists because you all remember last year and figured we were

0:41:45going out of business and now I need to completely change the narrative. It's amazing how hard

0:41:51he's working to get people to believe that Apple is not about to die.

0:41:55-Cause you have to do that before you unveil a new product.

0:41:57-Right, right. Well, and he knows what's coming, right? He knows what's coming. But what's

0:42:01amazing about it, and he at one point he's like, and especially when you see what we

0:42:04have today, right? Like, "Ha ha, I'm gonna tease what I've got coming." All of that said,

0:42:09the moment that he takes the little drape off of the iMac and reveals it.

0:42:14This is what they look like today. And I would like to take the privilege of showing you

0:42:20what they're going to look like from today on. This is IMAQ. This is IMAQ. The whole

0:42:34thing is translucent. You can see into it. It's so cool.

0:42:38That is literally the moment that Apple went from dead to alive. Like literally that is

0:42:42the moment and from that moment to 20 years later it has been up up up for

0:42:48Apple like that was the moment without that moment they probably wouldn't be

0:42:53around I know because the Mac although the Mac was kind of turning around I

0:42:56think if Apple had just continued doing beige products and all of that like

0:42:59would they have gotten to the iPod would they have been able to sell the iPod

0:43:04would the popularity of the iPod have given them more gas because they weren't

0:43:09just getting the gas from sales of the iPod, but they got way boosted, the Mac sales got

0:43:14boosted because of the halo effect where people finally were having positive experiences with

0:43:19Apple as a brand that they had never had before. Again, we've gone long enough now that people

0:43:25forget the iPod halo effect. The iPod was, for most people, the first Apple product they

0:43:30ever bought. And they were like, "Oh, this is great." Or they went into an Apple store

0:43:36then they saw the Mac and they're like "Oh, Apple makes a computer! This is way

0:43:39better than that PC that I have! I'm going to get one of these too!" And that

0:43:43was the infusion of energy and cash that Apple needed in the 2000s in

0:43:49order to keep going. And I don't think they would have gotten there

0:43:51without the iMac, which was a hit because it was different, but also because it was

0:43:56priced pretty well, and because it was the right time. Because up to that point,

0:44:00so many computers, the idea was "Well, I need a computer at home so I can do some

0:44:04of my work when I'm at home, and so it needs to be a PC, and it needs to do everything

0:44:08that my office PC does. But by like the late 90s, really what you needed was you wanted

0:44:14to get on the internet and maybe check your email. And you could do that on a Mac, so

0:44:18like there was a real opportunity for the Mac to no longer be seen as this weird incompatible

0:44:22computer, but to be seen as an appliance that lets you get internet and email at home. And

0:44:30Jeff Goldblum narrated ad where it's like step one plug it in step two get connected and they plug in the phone cable

0:44:36There's no step three right like that was the whole appeal of the iMac

0:44:40You should just plop one of these things down in your living room

0:44:42It looks kind of neat and weird and fun and you're on the internet

0:44:46And it's all just you know you don't have to hook up a monitor and do anything like that

0:44:51it's like super simple all in one and

0:44:53That was powerful and they sold a lot of them very quickly it became the

0:45:00the Mac product, the definitive Mac for a very long time afterward, and set Apple on

0:45:05its way to the iPod and ultimately to the iPhone. But they would never have gotten there

0:45:12without a product like this because Mac sales were kind of ebbing and everybody—there

0:45:17was nothing to be excited about. There had been so much press about Apple dying that

0:45:22there needed to be a turnaround. And you know, in the background, they're working on OS X

0:45:25because they came—when Jobs came back, he came back with Next Step and they knew they

0:45:29were going to do a new operating system, but they didn't have it ready yet. So this is

0:45:33not an OS X device when it ships. It's an OS 8, 6 device, I think. And, you know, so

0:45:40there's a lot of stuff bubbling in the background, but the hardware alone got people excited

0:45:44about this computer. And that was how Apple changed its fate.

0:45:49Is the iMac G3 a product that can only come from a struggling company? Like, could Apple

0:45:56be that kind of daring again? Or is this always like a Hail Mary to do something so far out

0:46:04of left field?

0:46:05I think on your average company, this is not the kind of product that they could do. But

0:46:11I think that's what Apple is trying to do all the time. I think Apple at its best and

0:46:17what, again, they don't succeed a lot of the time and they do have to maintain existing

0:46:22products and iterate them and all of that. But they also have those moments where they

0:46:26take a leap. And I think Steve Jobs wanted that in Apple's corporate culture. I think

0:46:33that's the thing that he always wanted Apple to strive for, is what's the next big thing?

0:46:36We're going to take another crack at this. And we're not going to be afraid of upsetting

0:46:40the install base. Like, you know, we laugh about it now, about how Mac users were kind

0:46:46of all up in arms about the iMac because it broke compatibility with literally everything.

0:46:49You think the headphone jack thing is bad when they took the headphone jack off?

0:46:53You had every Mac for the previous like 10 years had shipped with SCSI ports and ADB

0:47:01ports and serial ports and they are all gone in one system.

0:47:06They're gone.

0:47:07Gone never to return.

0:47:09You can buy at Dongle's, you can go to Dongle Town.

0:47:11Dongle Town was smaller then, Myke, but it was still there out on the frontier on the

0:47:15main road.

0:47:16Dongle Hamlet.

0:47:17Yeah, it was more of a Dongle Village at that point.

0:47:19- It was definitely there, it wasn't incorporated yet,

0:47:21didn't have a lot of tall buildings,

0:47:22but boy, it was there because I had,

0:47:25I still have some USB serial adapters and USB ADB adapters,

0:47:28but they did, they made that break.

0:47:33It was a big deal, but part of what Jobs wanted Apple

0:47:37to think collectively in its culture was

0:47:40the users will come along if there's a benefit.

0:47:43Now there are positives and negatives to that approach

0:47:45and all the conversation about the Mac laptops

0:47:48the last couple of years is definitely it cuts both ways but there is something

0:47:52to be said like that iMac was the point was that it wasn't for those existing

0:47:56Mac users like it was for new users who wanted to come to the Mac. The Mac wasn't

0:48:01selling enough to just the faithful to just the install base they needed to

0:48:05sell to new people and the new people didn't care and in the end the new

0:48:08people would benefit from having USB where you could literally like this was

0:48:12the era where if you wanted to detach your hard drive or attach a hard drive

0:48:16You had to shut down the computer and then unplug everything and then or replug it and

0:48:21then turn it back on.

0:48:23And USB is hot pluggable basically so you can just unplug or unplug and it's fine.

0:48:27Like that was huge.

0:48:29And how long did Apple just kind of putter around with this old stuff?

0:48:34So I think Steve Jobs wanted to instill in Apple the feeling that if they felt that there

0:48:38was a benefit to ditching something like the lightning port or not the lightning port like

0:48:43the dock connector for the lightning port or like the headphone jack and we

0:48:46can argue about like the headphone jack was that a good idea and USB-C for USB-A

0:48:51but you can see why they do it. They do it because Steve Jobs wanted them to have

0:48:56that culture of like break the rules throw the old thing away. The iPod nano

0:49:00is a great example of that where they follow that on whatever five six seven

0:49:04years later where they had the iPod mini and it was incredibly successful and it

0:49:08was more successful than the iPod and they killed it because the nano was

0:49:11better and it was a totally different product and that was super weird but

0:49:15that was the culture was throw the old thing away we want to be our own

0:49:18replacement flash storage is the future let's let's just kill the old product

0:49:23and that worked for them so that is I would even say that's the thing when we

0:49:29criticize Apple and they often do deserve criticize criticism about it

0:49:33what I like about them is they are always trying this stuff and it doesn't

0:49:39always work and they deserve criticism when it doesn't work, but I do like that they try

0:49:44and that comes from Steve Jobs instilling that in their culture. Like, look at the iMac,

0:49:50it's a great example. Like, they just made a break and it worked for them and there's

0:49:54something to be said for that because the argument is, if you don't make a break because

0:49:59you're super comfortable, someone else will do it and they will eat your lunch. So you

0:50:03better be your own replacement. Build your own replacement, be your best competition.

0:50:08And I do think that Apple, at its best, when it's working at its best, is doing that.

0:50:13Happy Birthday, iMac.

0:50:14Yeah, yeah, it's funny.

0:50:16I have on my wall a 20th anniversary of the Macintosh cover from Macworld.

0:50:23And we've come all the way, I guess it's 14 years later, because we've come all the way

0:50:28to the 20th anniversary of the iMac.

0:50:31Amazing.

0:50:32I mean, the iMac now is older than the original Mac was when the iMac was introduced.

0:50:37That's the thing that blows me away a lot older, but that's how time works.

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0:53:48So Apple results were last week and it was mostly good, right?

0:53:57I don't think there were any blockbusters in either direction really.

0:54:02No, I think they slightly beat their estimates.

0:54:05They increased their revenue year over year.

0:54:08They had good results in China, even though people were worried about that.

0:54:13The iPad did okay.

0:54:14Mac went down a smidge, right?

0:54:17went down in units but was flattened revenue or flattened units and up in

0:54:21revenue it was one of those things where basically what you were seeing is that

0:54:24the even though it seemed flat revenue was better and that was probably at

0:54:30least in part because of the iMac Pro just because the iMac Pro boost is

0:54:35expensive and they they introduced it so they sold a lot of them

0:54:38relatively speaking you know maybe not a huge amount but enough to boost revenue

0:54:43revenue, the ratio, right, we figured out average selling price by looking at the ratio

0:54:47of the sales units to the sales revenue and the revenue went up so the average selling

0:54:53price went up, which I point at and say, "Well, the iMac Pro was there and that's a much more

0:54:59expensive computer than they usually sell and therefore it dragged it up a little bit."

0:55:04But yeah, it was, I mean, the get routine, it was a huge quarter, Apple makes so much

0:55:08money but in the end most of it was pretty much what you'd expect it was the

0:55:14continuing story not anything kind of revelatory but there was one little

0:55:19thing which is kind of interest it was because it was about a very big thing so

0:55:24since the release of the iPhone 10 there have been many analysts reports and this

0:55:30we saw this last quarter we saw it this quarter as well last quarter is just

0:55:34proven by numbers, this quarter it was just proven by numbers, that people have been saying

0:55:39that iPhone X sales have been struggling. This has been a thing that has been, like

0:55:44even like the day before I think Bloomberg published this big thing, you know, "Oh, the

0:55:49iPhone X's are going to be down. It's been a big disappointment and they're going to

0:55:52forecast it down again and they're going to miss their forecast." None of this happened.

0:55:58And Apple is saying that it's their top selling phone and has been their top selling phone

0:56:03since the day it was introduced every week to not just per quarter but every

0:56:08single week it's the number one selling more iPhone tens than any other phone

0:56:12it's difficult to know what the exact mix is but it's like they're selling

0:56:15more iPhone tens than like they are pluses you know I don't know if maybe

0:56:19when you add both eights together like but you know single handset exactly and

0:56:25again right like they in their forecasts they forecast an increase in profit and

0:56:31sorry, increasing revenue year over year, and the literal only way Apple can do that

0:56:36is by selling more iPhones, right?

0:56:38There's nothing else that will drive the revenue so significantly for them currently.

0:56:43It has to be selling more iPhones.

0:56:45So what is going on?

0:56:49Why are analysts consistently having this thought that iPhone X is tanking?

0:56:57I have a theory about the iPhone X one.

0:57:00There is an overarching theory which is that, which I don't know enough about the investing

0:57:06world to talk about other than to say that there is one theory that says that the Apple

0:57:12bears are manipulating the stock, right? That they literally are contrarian because they

0:57:18are suppressing the Apple stock so that they can make money on the Apple stock, which again,

0:57:24it's a conspiracy theory and I don't know enough about that world.

0:57:27You can see that though, right? Like, I mean, it doesn't seem like a wild, like it doesn't

0:57:32seem like something from fiction. Like, of course I can understand that.

0:57:35It's either that or there's something about Apple that brings out people who are, um,

0:57:40who don't understand reality. Um, and maybe that's true too, because that's been true

0:57:45for years. But the thing is, correct me if I'm wrong,

0:57:49but in recent times, this, this feels a little bit out of place.

0:57:52Well, the iPhone X thing has been going on for a while now, and I think I've got my theory,

0:57:59so here it is. First off, if we go back to before the iPhone X was announced, when you

0:58:04and I were talking about it and it was this theoretical high-end phone and all of that,

0:58:08there was a lot of consternation about like, how are they going to do it? How are they

0:58:12going to make it so that they sell this one? Are people going to want the other one? Are

0:58:15people going to just defer purchases because they don't want to buy what we now know is

0:58:20the iPhone 8 when the iPhone X exists, that seems to not have happened, but that was the

0:58:24beginning of a narrative that you could pick up. And I think some people picked it up,

0:58:27a negative narrative, like Apple's changing their strategy, fear, fear, right? So we get

0:58:33into the release and there's some skepticism and it continues to build and there was like

0:58:38a supply chain report at some point that said that a couple of Apple suppliers were cutting,

0:58:45had their orders cut, including, I think, for the OLED screens from Samsung.

0:58:50And you can see how people start to make those assumptions based upon that, right?

0:58:54Yeah, although there were some just totally weird assumptions, like the one that said

0:58:57the iPhone X is "end of life," which I can't tell whether that was somebody who

0:59:03doesn't know what they're talking about or whether there was a mistranslation or

0:59:06misunderstanding because they're going to stop making the current iPhone X and do a

0:59:11a new iPhone 10 for the fall, which is probably closer to the truth, right? That it's not

0:59:16like they're killing the iPhone 10, but that they're going to end the, they're going to

0:59:19stop making that one and make the new one, which who knows whether they'll do that or

0:59:23not. I think it's, I think it's possible. I think it's likely in fact, but, um, so what

0:59:27ended up happening also, let's back up and say, what do we say when there are sources

0:59:33that are anonymous sources or that are insider sources, you always have to ask, what do they

0:59:38have to gain by sharing this information. And in the case of suppliers, what they have

0:59:44to gain is blaming someone else for their bad results because they didn't sell as many

0:59:50of these things that they usually supply. So they say, "Oh, well, our results are going

0:59:55to be bad because Apple didn't buy as many. It's Apple's fault. Apple's having trouble.

0:59:59It's not us. It's not us. We're great. Apple's having trouble." So that's all going on in

1:00:04the background. And then the results come out and it's like, "No, the iPhone X is still

1:00:07the best-selling iPhone, iPhone sales are good, where is this disaster?" And I think

1:00:14Apple made those statements about the iPhone X specifically to bat down those rumors and

1:00:19say, "Nope, you're wrong." Here's my theory. If you look at the average selling price of

1:00:23the iPhone, the holiday quarter, and when the iPhone X had just come out, and you look

1:00:29at the average selling price of the iPhone for this most recent quarter, January for

1:00:34for Burry March. It's lower, sequentially. It's higher year over year because the iPhone

1:00:4010 is more expensive and the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus are more expensive than the 7 and 7

1:00:44Plus were. Let's not forget that, that Apple raised the price on their other phones too.

1:00:48So year over year, the average selling price is up, but sequentially it's down a little

1:00:53bit. What does that mean? And my guess is, what that means is that the iPhone 10 sold

1:01:01an awful lot at the very beginning and the gap between it and the other iPhone models

1:01:07was greater and since it's a more expensive product, the ASP was higher and that after

1:01:13that initial burst of iPhone X sales over the next three months in this new quarter,

1:01:18they came down a little bit. They're still number one, but they're not as far ahead of

1:01:23the 8 and 8 Plus as they were. Yeah, they haven't done a lap around the course, right?

1:01:28you know, number two is catching up.

1:01:30- Which is maybe not shocking,

1:01:32given that there was the pent up demand for the iPhone X

1:01:35and so that there were an awful lot of those sold.

1:01:38I think it's impressive that the iPhone X did

1:01:39as well as it did in that quarter,

1:01:42'cause it was only available for a third of it.

1:01:44- Exactly, and also you'd think that like a $1,000 phone

1:01:48will probably do its best numbers at two points

1:01:51when it's released and the holiday quarter.

1:01:53- And it was simultaneous. - When it goes to.

1:01:54- Right.

1:01:55- Yeah, and so like, you know,

1:01:56that's when that's gonna happen,

1:01:58And you say it happens at the same time.

1:01:59- So here's my theory.

1:02:00My theory is that Apple looked at how well it did

1:02:03in December and said, "Whoa, it's gonna do this gap

1:02:06away from the eight for its life.

1:02:08This is what it's gonna be.

1:02:10So this is how many we need to make."

1:02:12And then as it got into that first calendar quarter

1:02:14of this year, beginning of this year,

1:02:16they started to see that that's not really

1:02:18where it was gonna be.

1:02:19It was gonna still be above the other phones,

1:02:21but not quite as high up.

1:02:23And that means that they bought too many components

1:02:26for what the actual selling rate was. And that means they have more inventory. And Luca,

1:02:32the CFO of Apple, said on the analyst call last week, basically that, he said, "Yeah,

1:02:37we ended up with a little more inventory and it'll work itself out." And that was a very

1:02:41pointed response to a pointed question about essentially the rumors that they had cut production

1:02:47of the iPhone X. And I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, right? He kind of

1:02:52shrugged it off as like, "Look, it happens. We had a little more inventory and it'll work

1:02:56itself out soon and it's not a big deal. And the question was like, "Oh, Breathless. Oh,

1:03:01iPhone X was doomed. What happened?" The truth is, I think, they looked at December and thought

1:03:07the iPhone X was going to sell a bit more than it actually is selling.

1:03:10Yeah, they may have gotten a little bit over excited.

1:03:12Right. Or as Tim Cook said, "We won the Super Bowl, but not by as many points as we would

1:03:16have liked to." Which is a weird metaphor, but you can sort of see it like we're very

1:03:21proud of the product and it's great and it is our number one product even if you know

1:03:28it didn't win by 30 points or whatever it still won the Super Bowl and it still gets

1:03:33the ring that's what he was trying to say and I think that's I think that's the source

1:03:37of this entire rumor I think the source of this rumor is that Apple in the natural course

1:03:41of things and again you might not even notice this if this weren't Apple and everybody wants

1:03:45to know everything about Apple I think Apple made a judgment in December and then they

1:03:49looked in January and they're like, "Oh, it's a little less than we thought." But we already

1:03:54have them in the process of we bought the screens and we bought the components and we're

1:03:57going to start producing them, which means we're going to end up with a little more inventory

1:04:01of iPhone Xs that we want, but we know the demand is still there, and so we will dial

1:04:06back on our orders and that'll get us back in balance and we'll be able to continue to

1:04:11make as many iPhone Xs as we can sell, but we have a little hump. It's like a snake eating

1:04:18a pig or something and there's the bulbs and the bulbs moves through. Okay, a cartoon snake

1:04:23eating a cartoon pig probably. I don't know about actual snakes and pigs. You know, and

1:04:28it'll work its way through and then out the other side and then that's it, right? Like

1:04:32they made an estimate. It was a little high. They put it into balance, but meanwhile they

1:04:37had cranked up the machine a little bit, so they got to crank the machine back down to

1:04:41get it in balance. I suspect that's it. That's the entire story of, "Oh, the iPhone 10 is

1:04:46terrible and doomed and they're going to stop making it all is sourced from the

1:04:49fact that Apple made a judgment in December and then in January or February

1:04:53made a slightly different judgment to back off a little bit and that's it

1:04:57that's your whole story but I guess that's a window into how supply chain

1:05:02details and people who want to break stories about Apple and make big

1:05:06speculation about like that moment when Apple finally takes a big stumble will

1:05:10will lead you to places that maybe aren't actual places. And in this case, I think that's

1:05:17what it is.

1:05:18It seems like the expectation, and I understand it, is that it's got to happen eventually.

1:05:23So maybe it's next quarter, right? Like, and I think that's where a lot of this is coming

1:05:28from that, like, any indication that this might be the quarter will set people into

1:05:34a tailspin.

1:05:35What is the greatest enemy of attention? I was going to say of journalism, of being an

1:05:39analyst, but really, what's the greatest enemy of attention? It's attention's arch-enemy,

1:05:44boredom. The usual is boring and nobody clicks through on stories and listens to analysts

1:05:51about boring, usual, business as usual, right? No one wants to read that story of like, "Oh,

1:05:57it's going to be alright." So if I tell you I have insider information that Apple is going

1:06:01to kind of continue on its upward trajectory, the phone sales are going to be pretty solid,

1:06:06services are going to continue to go up, they're going to introduce new products, and in the

1:06:10end, Apple is not one of these companies that's going to burn out and fade away. It's just

1:06:14going to kind of be boring and grow slowly and make huge amounts of money. Then, if I

1:06:21could come back from the future and tell you that, like, it's not going to stop analysts

1:06:25and writers from hoping that something happens, because that's boring. It's like, "Come on,

1:06:31do something, do something!" It's the same thing when we talked about the Apple Watch

1:06:34and people are like, "This is why Apple must release a watch and why it must be the next

1:06:38iPhone and why it must be a game changer." It's like, must? As long as the iPhone is

1:06:43growing and doing well, Apple must not do anything. They don't must anything at all.

1:06:50All Apple must do is keep making good iPhones. That's all Apple must do.

1:06:54Essentially true. If Apple keeps making good iPhones and the iPhone keeps selling, for

1:06:59a very long time that's all Apple must do. Now they must find the next thing for when

1:07:05the iPhone is no longer, when smartphones are no longer the product category that everybody

1:07:09cares about. That may be a very long time and that's part of the problem here. It's

1:07:12like, come on, I'm just in my career as an analyst, writer, whatever. Right now, I don't

1:07:18want to wait 15 years for the next big transition. I want something big to happen right now.

1:07:23Change the world again. I need that. Right now. And it's not because Apple needs to,

1:07:27because we want to see it collectively and that's a more interesting story. And so that's

1:07:33why I think these things are going to continue even if Apple, in fact even more so if Apple

1:07:37is just a boring, incredibly popular successful company because boring doesn't sell. Boring

1:07:43is the enemy of attention and I think that that leads to things getting hyped up that

1:07:50are nothing. Which is not to say that Apple couldn't do something that is really deserving

1:07:53of attention, that they couldn't have a flop, that they couldn't make a terrible decision

1:07:56that leads to harming their business totally could happen but in the absence

1:08:00of that people will still write stuff like this because they're desperate for

1:08:04something to say and modern Apple is in many ways as we we pick through like

1:08:10where they're going with the Mac and stuff and iOS and how it's interesting

1:08:13and it's very interesting to speculate about that stuff but especially as a

1:08:17business modern Apple is super boring above the waterline where we can see it

1:08:22where it's just not about future products it's just about the stuff they

1:08:24release and how much they sell, they're boring. They're a money machine. They make

1:08:28a huge profit. They sell a lot of phones. They sell other stuff too. What more can

1:08:32you say? And every time I turn on CNBC, which I only turn on on the day of the

1:08:36results, there is always somebody there is like, "Oh, Apple's done for," and

1:08:39somebody else. And then the results come out and everybody's like, "Money, money,

1:08:42money, money, money! Amazing! It's an amazing thing!" And it's like, yeah, sure,

1:08:47being a huge company that makes a lot of money and sells a lot of products, it is

1:08:51boring but it's also you know it's pretty good if you're that company and that you know that's

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1:12:28So we'll do some #AskUpgrade questions today comes from our first one is from Gustavo.

1:12:33Gustavo wants to know, "What do you guys think about Apple's leather iPhone cases?"

1:12:38What do you think Jason?

1:12:40Do you like those?

1:12:41Do you use those?

1:12:42I do like them.

1:12:43I would prefer not to use a case on my iPhone, but for the 6 and for the 10, it's just slippery

1:12:52enough that I wanted a little more grip.

1:12:55And I do like the Apple leather iPhone cases.

1:12:57I think they're really nice.

1:12:58You've got to like leather.

1:12:59I did talk to somebody this week who uses a silicone one because they didn't like how

1:13:03leather can discolor and it can get, you know, I like that leather is gonna age and change

1:13:10and look, I like the look of that, but there are, you know, silicone doesn't, so you could

1:13:15do that if you want, but I really like the leather cases and I'll remind you that Apple's

1:13:18secret weapon here is that Apple is the only company that can make a case with an Apple

1:13:21logo on it, which is, you know, if you want the Apple logo on your case, that's how you

1:13:26do it. But I wish, the iPhone X is so beautiful that I wish I didn't have to use a case on

1:13:30it because I love how it looks, but I just don't feel like I can have that. I had a dream

1:13:35last night, Myke, that I was on a roller coaster, or it might have been a go-kart, I'm not sure.

1:13:45And I got crashed or bumped or something, and I thought, "Wow, that was a really bad

1:13:51bump." And then I got out at the bottom and looked at my phone and my iPhone had been

1:13:55smashed in my pocket by the force of it.

1:13:59And what I'm saying is I'm afraid my iPhone X

1:14:00is going to get broken, which is why I put a case on it.

1:14:02- That's a very good reason.

1:14:03I agree with you for all of the reasons

1:14:05of why you have a case, and also all of the reasons

1:14:09you wish you didn't have to have a case.

1:14:10Like, I agree with all of that.

1:14:12I tried to run my iPhone X without a case

1:14:15because I loved the look of it so much,

1:14:17and it was still just a little bit too slippery for me.

1:14:19And do you know what?

1:14:20This thing costs too much money.

1:14:21Like, it was too expensive.

1:14:23And yes, I have AppleCare on it,

1:14:24but I would still prefer not to have to go through that, right?

1:14:27Like I just don't want, I don't want to break my phone and I'm happy to have a case on it

1:14:32because my desire to not have a broken phone outweighs my desire to have a phone without a case.

1:14:38I'm, I'm not such a fan of the leather cases.

1:14:42I like the silicone cases, um, for two reasons.

1:14:45I like the color range of the silicone cases more and I personally find the silicone to be more grippy,

1:14:51which is what I'm looking for.

1:14:52And honestly, I think this is a personal preference thing because I spoke to many people who say

1:14:57the exact opposite, who find the leather to be more grippy.

1:15:00I have no idea if that's anything to do with the oils in your skin.

1:15:03I don't know.

1:15:04I think the silicone is more grippy.

1:15:05I actually think it's too grippy, which is why I don't like the silicone.

1:15:08The silicone case, I have a hard time getting it in my pocket.

1:15:11And the leather leather case, I don't.

1:15:13So for me, it's the that's the right one for me.

1:15:15Wayne wants some advice, Jason.

1:15:17Wayne's first generation stainless steel Apple watch has broken.

1:15:21Is it worth buying the Series 3 now or wait?

1:15:26I don't have a good answer for this.

1:15:28I'm pretty sure there will be a new Apple Watch this fall.

1:15:31How badly do you want an Apple Watch?

1:15:32Maybe you could get a used first or second or third generation watch or a refurb and

1:15:38you could get a deal on something like that and then use that for a year.

1:15:42Yeah, I would really try that.

1:15:44You can find first gen Apple Watches being sold pretty cheap.

1:15:50a series one or series two used or refurbed maybe the sport and not the stainless and

1:15:57just figure you're going to use that for a year or two and then the new Apple Watch style

1:16:02if there is one and generations will have arrived and then you can make a good decision

1:16:06about buying one that's more or less brand new with the material that you want. This

1:16:13is good advice I think because if the Apple Watch is something you must have every day

1:16:19day, and considering you were coming from first gen anyway, if you can find a good deal

1:16:25on something that is lower than a series 3, do it, because you don't know what you're

1:16:30missing out on with the benefits of it, because you don't own it.

1:16:33Right, and I was going to say my wife's battery on her series 0 is dying, and it's a tough

1:16:41time to buy a new Apple Watch right now, and we're going to pay the $75 and get a new battery

1:16:46put in it and wait and maybe she'll get a new Apple watch next year but for this

1:16:50year I think we're just gonna we're just gonna wait and and spend $75 and get her

1:16:55back up to speed with her Series Zero which she still likes just fine and it's

1:16:59stainless so again buying a new stainless is that much more expensive and

1:17:02it's a nice watch it looks great so we're gonna do that instead and I think

1:17:07that that because it's a weird time right now if there was a brand new

1:17:10Apple watch out right now I would consider just buying that for her but

1:17:15But there isn't, so we're gonna defer too.

1:17:19So yeah, maybe finding somebody's used old watch

1:17:22that they've replaced with a Series 3

1:17:23might get you through for, let's say,

1:17:26year, year and a half until maybe

1:17:28the 2019 Apple Watch models in the fall.

1:17:30- And you never know, in three or four weeks,

1:17:32there may be some big indications of some changes, right?

1:17:35If they start doing stuff like,

1:17:36hey, your app should be adaptable

1:17:38for different screen shapes, right?

1:17:41Then you'll know, then you'll know.

1:17:44Jason, not Jason, different Jason, Jason too wrote in to say,

1:17:49almost every online service I use has emailed me

1:17:52over the last week updating their terms and privacy,

1:17:55Twitter, eBay, Amazon, Fitbit, the list goes on and on.

1:17:59Did something happen across the internet

1:18:01that has necessitated this or is there another reason?

1:18:04Jason, let me say four letters to you.

1:18:07Those four letters are GDPR.

1:18:10Basically in the EU there are a bunch

1:18:12your privacy regulations. And it's all about one of the key things while you're seeing

1:18:17this so much is companies have to update their terms and their privacy policies to account

1:18:22for how they keep in your data and how it's used and how you can get to it.

1:18:26But also if you're on an email mailing list, you have to basically now reconfirm in a lot

1:18:31of businesses that you want to be on that mailing list. So a lot of companies I think

1:18:36are using the privacy and policy updates as an excuse to email you and be like, "Hey,

1:18:43you love these emails, right? You should click this button." So that's why you're seeing

1:18:46so many of those.

1:18:47Yeah, that's exactly it. And even if you're not in the EU, you need to do... Basically,

1:18:55if you've got EU customers, you're covered by GDPR. You need to do it and you're subject

1:19:00to their sanction if you break the rules. So, you know, anybody, any business that's

1:19:05got people who are users in the in the EU. They have two choices. They can either do

1:19:09the GDPR stuff, which you're seeing, or like some companies, they can say, "Sorry, we're

1:19:15not going to have people in Europe anymore," which is usually a sign that their business

1:19:21is built on shady uses of user data. There are examples of small businesses that maybe

1:19:32the issues with the cost of doing business. They've got to hire a lawyer to look at their

1:19:38statements. They worry about the fines. They don't have very many customers in Europe.

1:19:43There are going to be some outlier cases, but mostly if you're using a service like

1:19:46there's that service that unsubscribes you for messages that Slice Intelligence owns,

1:19:51and what that means is that they're actually reading through all of your emails to find

1:19:54out what you bought so that they can use that in their estimates of market share. And they

1:19:58this service that I think they bought, they have it to datamine you. And that service

1:20:03is no longer going to be available to people in the EU. Because in the end, that's the

1:20:07only reason it's there, is to datamine you. And if they can't datamine you in the EU,

1:20:11they're not going to bother. So that's a sign, I'll tell you, if you get one of those things

1:20:16that says, "We're not going to be able to use this service anymore because Europe is

1:20:20out." That's maybe a bad sign most of the time.

1:20:24Joe wants to know what do we use for mousing surfaces if not a mouse pad what is your desk made of?

1:20:30Do you use a mouse? Yeah we don't use I mean I don't think either of us use mice right? Oh Joe

1:20:35is this was this sent in in I'm not gonna make jokes about people who use mice if you use a mouse

1:20:41great I have not used a mouse with my computer since the 1990s folks I don't I used a trackball

1:20:49for many many years and I use a trackpad now. So surfaces that I use where my

1:20:55trackpad is set as my surface and that's the keyboard tray on my desk and yeah

1:21:01that's it. I have a wooden desk I very occasionally maybe like once or twice a

1:21:06year will use a mouse which is usually just because of some kind of injury

1:21:11thing I don't know nope but then I just use it directly on the desk I don't have

1:21:15a mousepad. My desk is made of wood but you know it's wood in quotes because it's really

1:21:19like particle board with a wood fake kind of cover on it I think. Mine's like IKEA I

1:21:24mean I have no idea I mean they could be a small family living in there. It's pressed

1:21:28it's sawdust pressed into the shape of wood and so technically wood but it's wood like

1:21:34a pringle is a potato chip it's sort of that kind of wood but most furniture is like that

1:21:39these days and I think my keyboard tray is that stuff too although it might be plastic

1:21:44I'm not sure, but my desk is that, you know, IKEA-like wood surface.

1:21:49It's got a nice fake wood grain on it, though.

1:21:51It's very pretty, but I don't think it's real.

1:21:52- Here's James's question.

1:21:54"I have mixed feelings about the idea of AR glasses.

1:21:58It would make things like turn-by-turn directions better

1:22:00and could potentially, in some instances, make our lives better overall.

1:22:06But how could people wearing AR glasses affect face-to-face interactions?

1:22:12I think significantly, and this is my reservation with this stuff.

1:22:16Yeah, I think significantly is true. I think change will change things that will happen.

1:22:23I think all new technology changes aspects, right? Our aspects of our interaction now

1:22:28when we have smartphones is different and you see people using their smartphones and

1:22:31all of that, and that changes things. Having cars change things and having public transit

1:22:36change things. But it is true. This is a heretofore not intervened by technology, not imposed

1:22:44over our human experience, but now imposed through technology, where you are getting

1:22:51jokes to tell to make you seem more interesting, facts that you're looking up, data about this

1:22:56person, even if it's as simple as like, "Oh, that's your name. I forgot who you are, but

1:23:00now I know." All of that stuff can be in there. And it does mean, as we knew with the Google

1:23:06glass stuff like the distraction issue where now we know you're distracted if you're looking down

1:23:11at your phone or your watch but with a heads up display are we going to know are they going to

1:23:16people looking at you blankly but they're actually doing something else it makes that part that much

1:23:20harder too yeah my concern is just like the apple watch was a step right and i know that there are

1:23:28times where like and i still get this every now and then where like i'm you know things are coming

1:23:33in and I'm just glancing and stuff and people are like it's not the it's moved away from

1:23:38uh oh are you checking the time if you've got to be somewhere which is what we all initially

1:23:43thought it was going to be but now it's just like what's going on like they know it's notifications

1:23:48like why are you checking this stuff right so that that's the thing that I see and I've been

1:23:53privy to and it's something that I have to pay attention to if I've got something literally

1:23:58beaming into my eyeballs, like that is very different, right? Like how is that not going

1:24:03to distract me? Like I don't, I just don't, this is my reservation with this. Like I do genuinely

1:24:09believe that this could be a cool product. Like whilst it was wonky in a lot of areas,

1:24:14I always thought Google Glass was kind of cool. Like some of the stuff that it could do

1:24:18is kind of cool, right? As somebody who primarily navigates by foot, you know,

1:24:26having turn-by-turn directions in front of my face for walking is fantastic, right?

1:24:32So, because like, you know, it's not like when you're in a car and you can just mount the system

1:24:35somewhere, right? Like you're kind of walking around staring at your phone. It's, it's, it's

1:24:40like kind of awkward, but having it like right in front of your face is great, right? Like all that

1:24:44stuff is great. But I think one of the reasons that Google Glass ended up not working out is

1:24:49this exact thing because you can't hide it. You're wearing those, you're wearing those and everybody

1:24:55knows and they're gonna react to you differently. Yeah, but imagine a world where everybody's

1:24:58got them though, right? When everybody's got them, what does that mean? But that's it though.

1:25:03I don't know. Because this is the, my feeling Jason is this awkwardness that people feel

1:25:09I think could be the reason that we won't all have them. So I don't know. I wonder,

1:25:15I was thinking about things like there's somebody you don't like and so you have them, you put

1:25:19a Snapchat filter on them where they always look like a clown or their eyes bug out or

1:25:23or something like that.

1:25:24I mean, where you're mocking them in your visual field,

1:25:28even though they don't know it.

1:25:29Like there's all sorts of bad usage of this,

1:25:32or maybe that's good if it's a really bad person

1:25:34and you don't want to deal with them, but you have to.

1:25:37But it's a complete change in human interaction.

1:25:41- Maybe if you could actually help me remember

1:25:42people's names, 'cause I forget names at the time,

1:25:43so that'd be nice.

1:25:44- Yeah, but completely.

1:25:45I think in the end, everybody will use it differently

1:25:49because of course people are people,

1:25:50that there will be like, people will, we will understand that there's a certain lightness

1:25:55of an AR interface overlaid on the world when you're talking to somebody that may be, and

1:26:02of course these things are going to be able to detect when you're talking to somebody.

1:26:05So it may go into a mode when you're talking to somebody that you've set that reduces everything.

1:26:11Maybe even just saying it, that everything else around them darkens so that you're focused

1:26:19just on them, right? Like, they could do that too. There's lots of things you could do,

1:26:24but other people will want to be like checking their email or whatever is the future email

1:26:28that comes in AR while they're talking to somebody and just be alerted when they say

1:26:33something interesting or have a transcript of what they've said up to then so that if

1:26:37you didn't hear what they said you can quickly read the transcript and then respond to it.

1:26:40I mean, all that stuff is going to be to play for and I think in the end I think we'll all

1:26:45figure it out and it'll be okay but that doesn't necessarily mean that human interaction won't be

1:26:51completely changed by something like that in a world where everybody's got AR in their vision

1:26:55all the time. That's going to be a while. Like there's going to be this really ugly transition

1:26:59phase but ultimately if that's the world then it'll yeah it'll be a really different world and

1:27:03the way we interact with people face to face will be totally different. I mean we did all get used

1:27:08to smartphones, right? That was a huge change because we had the entire internet available

1:27:17to reach us. This wasn't a thing that existed before. The idea of the push notification,

1:27:23right? When that became a thing, the push notification, someone being able to reach you

1:27:28via any method, either personal or application from wherever you are, that was a huge change,

1:27:35I think, in social interactions and just smartphones in general.

1:27:39And by and large, I think we've adapted to that.

1:27:43People have understood certain etiquettes around that.

1:27:46And my hope would be that if these things exist, maybe there is a thing where if you're

1:27:51sitting down to somebody with dinner, you take them off.

1:27:55And that's just how you live your life.

1:27:57But I don't know.

1:28:00Then there's the other awkward problem with people like me and you who wear eyeglasses.

1:28:03would be integrated into our eyeglasses and then what do we do? So we have a lot to work

1:28:09out before this can become a thing. But I think if any company has the track record

1:28:17to show that they can try and get some of this way, it's Apple, right? I believe that

1:28:22if anyone's going to get close to doing this in a way that is conscious of the people that

1:28:27are around you, it's probably them.

1:28:30Yeah.

1:28:31If you have any questions you would like to hear us answer at the end of the show, you

1:28:34can just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade and we collect some out to read

1:28:38every episode.

1:28:39Thank you to everybody who has submitted one for this week.

1:28:42If you want to hear us talk about literally anything at all, there's a wide range of topics

1:28:46going to Ask Upgrade.

1:28:47Just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade and we will talk about it on a future episode.

1:28:52Yeah, and if you've got any podcasting questions, we're collecting them now because we're going

1:28:57to pre-record a whole podcasting episode as a special episode. So in the next couple of

1:29:03weeks, it's a great time for you to do that at #AskUpgrade.

1:29:06If you want to find our show notes for this week, go to relay.fm/upgrades/192. That's

1:29:11where they live on the web. But I'm hoping that the podcast app that you use should display

1:29:15them in all of their glory to you. So you can go and read along and pull in some extra

1:29:20information based upon the stuff that we've spoken about. There's a lot of great stuff

1:29:23in there today, including all of Jason's weird Amazon links for 3D accessories.

1:29:29They're all in there.

1:29:302D.

1:29:303D, 2D, 4D maybe even.

1:29:32But it is a secret one.

1:29:33Who knows?

1:29:34If you want to find Jason online, he is over at sixcolors.com and the

1:29:38incomparable.com.

1:29:39He is @jasonel on Twitter, J S N E double L.

1:29:42I am @imike, I M Y K E.

1:29:44This show is a part of Relay FM.

1:29:46Both me and Jason host many wonderful shows at Relay FM.

1:29:49Just go to relay.fm/shows to find more there.

1:29:53I want to thank StoryWorth, Simple Contacts and Eero for their support of this show.

1:29:58And we'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

1:30:02Y'all come back now, you hear?

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