0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 189 for April 16, 2018.
0:00:16I am Jason Snell, and I am not usually the person who reads this part, but Myke Hurley is on assignment.
0:00:22He's in the United States for the Atlanta Pen Show, and you can check out that special live episode of The Pen Addict.
0:00:28This episode, by the way, brought to you by FreshBooks, Pingdom, and Peacalc.
0:00:32And my special co-host for this episode, returning triumphantly, is Mr. Merlin Mann.
0:00:39Hi, Merlin.
0:00:39Hey, buddy. How's it going? Thanks for having me on.
0:00:41It's pretty good. Pretty good. Thanks for joining me. I really appreciate you coming on my podcast,
0:00:46because Myke abandoned me.
0:00:47Having a pretty busy day today?
0:00:49Nah.
0:00:50Yeah. Well, listen, nobody cares about any of that. It's important that we get to Snell Talk.
0:00:53Oh, yes.
0:00:54We have a question this week for Snell Talk. This is from listener Meher.
0:00:57Listen to me here, we'd like to ask Jason, how's the weather today?
0:01:01Good question, excellent question. I like this a lot. I'm so glad Myke's not here.
0:01:05I picked this one up myself.
0:01:07So it was a really nice sunny day, a really nice spring day yesterday.
0:01:14Today, clouds are rolling in, wind's picking up, it's gonna rain later.
0:01:19For you too, because we share the weather, you and I.
0:01:22Well, thank you to listen to me here. This is a trick question because it also gives me the chance to say thank you
0:01:28To Jason who gave me much help in picking out. I've been envious of your weather setup for a long time
0:01:35Well, not your weather that you get but envious of your weather monitoring panopticon for a long time and you're right
0:01:41Robot that floats around in my backyard measuring wet. I'm very wet again and
0:01:48So you were very instrumental and it was actually a challenge on another show I do to do something about the weather and
0:01:53And you really were very helpful and now I have a weather station and I can without looking outside
0:02:00I can find out like how foggy it is. It's really nice. Yeah, it's cool. I like it, too
0:02:04I'm always fascinated by the weather and I keep remembering
0:02:07It's gonna be a sad day when my weather station finally dies
0:02:10But like I installed it when my son it was my during my paternity leave when my son was born and you know
0:02:15he's about to go into high school. So that thing's been out there a long time and it still works,
0:02:20which is pretty great. And I'm glad, so welcome to the world of the weather stations. You got a,
0:02:29it's come a long way since 2004. - It really has, the prices have come down. And I mean,
0:02:37the thing that I always want to say to people, this is why I sought you out as my rabbi,
0:02:41is that you do have to be careful, read very carefully.
0:02:44And in my case, I had two bullets
0:02:45that really I needed to hit.
0:02:47One of them was that a lot of them that you get,
0:02:50they're really a weather monitor,
0:02:52where it just goes to an ugly screen in your house.
0:02:55So A, I wanted one that would be able to connect
0:02:59to the internet and would be compatible
0:03:02with the Weather Underground network.
0:03:05And it wasn't the easiest thing in the world to set up,
0:03:08but you just set it up once and it goes.
0:03:10And now I can see my weather from anywhere.
0:03:12It's the best.
0:03:13- Yeah, the weather underground is the big thing.
0:03:15When I got mine, first off,
0:03:19mine came with a really ugly console, which we still have.
0:03:22The nice thing about it is that that's got
0:03:24like a little interface plug that used to go
0:03:27to your PC parallel port or whatever.
0:03:30- That used to be the only way.
0:03:31- Right, and then your PC would run the software.
0:03:33And one of the nice things that's allowed me
0:03:35to keep using this 2004 vintage weather station
0:03:38is that they, that company, still uses that same technology for their console and everything,
0:03:44and they released, a few years ago, they released an IP module that's basically like an Ethernet
0:03:50port. And so now that's plugged into the console, and the console receives the data from the weather
0:03:55station and just sends it down my home network to the internet. And that's great. Like, that solves
0:04:02so many problems, because back in the day, it was all about just being on the computer. And now,
0:04:06these lower-cost weather stations, and some of them are just monitors and they'll give you a
0:04:10little screen that you can look at, but some of them, you know, if you get the ones that are kind
0:04:15of Wi-Fi enabled or they've got a little smart home base station or something, they'll talk to
0:04:20the internet and they'll either, you know, work with like software that you can install on your
0:04:25Mac if you want to do it that way, but most of them will go to a cloud service and a lot of them
0:04:30will go to Weather Underground, at which point, you know, you're in their little network of
0:04:36of personal weather stations and they generate a page for your station that sits there and
0:04:40you don't have to build your own page like I had to do back in the day. They've got a
0:04:45personal weather station page.
0:04:47And you're giving back to the community a little bit. It's nice. I mean, you're helping
0:04:50people to... I mean, one nice thing, I just sent you the very ugly monitor that I bought
0:04:55for this that I can't believe my wife lets me have in the house. But one thing that's
0:04:59nice is you get this nice kind of like arsenal of tools like between general weather underground
0:05:05plus dark sky, plus this, plus I got to say IFTTT.
0:05:10It's really super handy.
0:05:11So I can do stuff like say, hey, let
0:05:14me know if the temperature tonight is going to drop--
0:05:16my station's going to drop below,
0:05:18like I think I said arbitrarily, something like 64 degrees.
0:05:21But tell me if it's going to be cool enough
0:05:22that I might want to turn the heat on before bed.
0:05:24You know, and we'll just leave it on all the time.
0:05:26But I realize this is weather nerd stuff.
0:05:29But I did want the opportunity to publicly thank you for that.
0:05:32I'm actually really, really enjoying it.
0:05:34I'm glad you are, and of course I'm happy to help people with their weather station
0:05:38needs because I'm apparently that guy.
0:05:40I should also mention I have a thing called BitBar, which is this open source utility
0:05:45you can search for.
0:05:46I think it was designed by a guy who wanted to track Bitcoin prices, but it's actually
0:05:52brilliant.
0:05:53What's a little more power here?
0:05:54And I think he realized that it had wider applications, so he revised it to be a little
0:05:58more broad.
0:05:59can I'll put a link in the show notes to it but bit bar is cool because it's it'll
0:06:05put anything in your menu bar like literally it'll put anything in your menu
0:06:10bar that you can tell it is a little bit like like like the late belated status
0:06:14bar or status the piano the panic app that doesn't work that's killing me
0:06:18right now well that was like pretty this is like it puts it in your Mac menu bar
0:06:23so it's basically like but you can put anything there so he built he wrote it
0:06:26for like Bitcoin prices but it's it just uses you can use like command line to
0:06:31put anything in your menu bar and so I now have my current temperature for my
0:06:37weather station in my Mac menu bar which is which is cool because it's literally
0:06:41my weather station software has a I could probably query like the API for
0:06:46weather underground but my weather station has a file it generates every
0:06:50two minutes that's literally like just the temperature and all the script does
0:06:54is say, "Hey, love that file. Put that in the menu bar." And that's all it does. There's
0:06:59some emoji that pop up for, like, if it's raining or whatever. And it actually has a
0:07:03little thing in parentheses that's like the temperature diff between now and this time
0:07:07yesterday, which can be very useful where it's like, "Whoa, it's way colder today."
0:07:11Like, I like that stuff.
0:07:13You also market marketed me a little bit here because you put in one simple line of text
0:07:17and I've already ordered something.
0:07:18Oh, no.
0:07:19Oh, my God. I need you so much.
0:07:20Did you buy a metric time?
0:07:22maybe. Tell people about this. This is so nerdy and cool. So I have for a long time,
0:07:29we used to have those, first they were slim devices and then they were Logitech squeeze
0:07:33boxes, the music players. And that was our before Sonos. That was kind of how we did
0:07:38digital music in our house. And I love those things. And then Logitech bought them and
0:07:43ruined them because that's what Logitech does. But I kept one around because it's got a plug-in
0:07:49for a custom clock and so we had this place in the living room right above the TV that
0:07:54showed the current time and the current temperature based on the weather station. It was really
0:07:58cool. And it's gotten to the point now where those things are all kind of dying, but we
0:08:04still have a couple that work. But I don't use them for music anymore. They're literally
0:08:10they just sit there turned off with the clock showing because it's something that we use.
0:08:15and I talked to my wife about it and she's like, "Oh yeah, I look at that all the time."
0:08:19And I bought a little sensor to stick outside and a couple little plastic things that you
0:08:23can just look at to see the outside temperature. It's not the same. They don't have the same
0:08:27application. And it was big, like the text. You could sit on the couch and you could see
0:08:31the time and the temperature. And then I was up at Twit the other week. Well, this actually,
0:08:36a few months ago, I was up there doing screensavers with Leo Laporte. And right behind their set
0:08:41for screensavers, they've got a whole bunch of junk like screens and little gadgets and
0:08:46stuff and they had this little box that's showing the time and it's these little white
0:08:51squares in a grid. If you're old enough, if you're as old as we are, you'll remember this.
0:08:56It looks kind of like the display on the Goodyear blimp. Yeah, that's right because it's a grid.
0:09:00I used to, I had a model Goodyear blimp when I was a kid and you could color in the things
0:09:06and slide them in and then turn it on and it would make a little... I totally had that.
0:09:09you know kids want to run the scoreboard on the side of a blimp.
0:09:12We were just down in San Jose and we saw the Goodyear blimp. It was just there. It was just there hanging out.
0:09:15It's very blocky but look at all the stuff that this thing does.
0:09:18And it's super bright and part of it's capable of being in color.
0:09:21And it seems to be designed as a desk clock and it's got buttons on it so you can have a bunch of different plugins that show different kinds of data.
0:09:29And you can have them rotate or you can have an interface.
0:09:31And I think there's a music player aspect and it'll connect to Bluetooth.
0:09:34There's a bunch of other stuff that it does.
0:09:36But I just saw it as a screen, and I was really worried when I was up at Twit that this was
0:09:41some like Arduino or Raspberry Pi project that involved soldering, because let me tell
0:09:48you, I'm not interested in projects that involve soldering. That's where I draw the
0:09:52line. If hot metal, molten metal is involved, I am out. I'm out of there. I can't do
0:09:58that. So I'm up there a couple weeks ago, and I say to Leo, "What is this thing?"
0:10:04I finally remembered to ask, because I just had it in the back of my mind, like, "Oh,
0:10:07I wonder if that is a solution to my problem." And I'm girding myself for the, "Well, there
0:10:13will be soldering," kind of moment. And he says, "Oh, yeah, it's the thing, it's the
0:10:17lometric time. It's, yeah, you can just buy it online." He said, "It's a little expensive,
0:10:22though." And I thought to myself, "Oh, geez, I'm going to go there and I'm going to find
0:10:25that it's the perfect solution. It's going to cost $700." And it's $200. It's not cheap.
0:10:31right." But at the same time, I thought about it and I was like, "No, but this is the answer,
0:10:37literally the answer to this thing. I have Google searched so many different things to
0:10:41find something that will do what I need. I've looked at so many different things that say
0:10:46they're connected displays that turned out to be something you put outside of Walmart."
0:10:51Which is like, "No, no, that's overkill for my living room."
0:10:54Like one of those Costco open-close signs. Yeah, it's a scoreboard for a baseball park.
0:10:59That's too much. So I did what you may have just done, which is while I was standing there
0:11:05prepping the show that we were about to record for Twit, I just bought it. And I had to build
0:11:13an app, which like literally is just loading again another text file. It's like a little
0:11:19JSON formatted file on my server that shows the temp and the time. It took me about half
0:11:25an hour to figure that out. And that's it. The squeeze box got pulled out. The
0:11:29lometric time is now where it used to be. It's brighter. The display is lower
0:11:33resolution, but it's so big and bright. It's really easy to read. And all it is
0:11:39doing is saying like 222, 61 degrees. That's all it's doing. And it
0:11:44totally does it. So that was a fun little project and also weather-related. So
0:11:50there you go. It's a fun gadget. If it was not sitting up above my TV, I might
0:11:54actually play with some of the other plugins and stuff, but for now it's like
0:11:58that's all I want is I want a really bright display that shows
0:12:02the time and the current temperature from my own weather station.
0:12:05I don't know any other product. But you could find out how your Bitcoin's doing probably.
0:12:08I could. I certainly could. In fact, the Limetric website shows you all sorts
0:12:12of interesting things you can do with the Limetric time, many of which are completely ludicrous.
0:12:17I like the one with the big exclamation point that says "Gas leak!"
0:12:21That's my favorite too. In case you don't notice that there's a gas leak, your clock will say "gas leak" on it.
0:12:28So that's useful.
0:12:30So we should probably thank listener Meher very much for the question.
0:12:33And if people have questions for you, Jason, what do they do?
0:12:36They go onto the Twitter and they use the hashtag SnellTalk.
0:12:39Yeah, and it can be about anything, even the weather.
0:12:42Even the weather.
0:12:43It's true. We have much more to talk about, actually.
0:12:47But we have a little bit of follow-up. But I made you blue 20 minutes on weather.
0:12:52Yep, I love it. It's great. The cat's away, the mice are playing, that's just how it is.
0:12:57Let's talk about some follow-up first, which is old speakers. We just put this in right before
0:13:02the show started, old speakers, because I was telling you about this Verge story from
0:13:07Heim-Gartenberg. That is, it's a funny story, which is my Airplay speakers have become obsolete
0:13:14because their app hasn't been updated in four years, subhead mistakes were made. And the
0:13:19idea is basically he's got these AirPlay speakers that are on his Wi-Fi network and he says,
0:13:23"I can never change my Wi-Fi network's name or password ever again, or my speakers will
0:13:28stop working because the only way to set their settings is to use an app and the app is 32
0:13:35bit so it doesn't run anymore." Amazing, right?
0:13:37It is, and I think this is a problem we're going to start seeing more and more of. I
0:13:41I mean, I already feel this pain with IoT stuff.
0:13:44I mean, just coming into the whole internet of things
0:13:46environment, I mean, it's generous to call it the Wild
0:13:49West.
0:13:50When you get into things like-- is it Arduino?
0:13:51Is that what it's called?
0:13:52I think so.
0:13:53I don't know.
0:13:54Does it involve soldering?
0:13:55Don't ask me.
0:13:55No soldering.
0:13:56No soldering allowed.
0:13:57Hey, how comfortable are you with Linux?
0:13:59You get that stuff, you get the Raspberry Pi.
0:14:01It's the soldering of computers is what Linux is.
0:14:04Computer equivalent of soldering, yeah.
0:14:06I mean, I haven't gone that far, but it does kind of frustrate
0:14:09me a little bit that some stuff, you know,
0:14:11for various Apple reasons doesn't work with HomeKit.
0:14:15HomeKit is not on the Mac yet.
0:14:17There's frustrating things about that.
0:14:18But there's also just this idea that I
0:14:20suspect that one reason people are
0:14:23reluctant to get into this, privacy stuff aside-- very
0:14:25important, very much understand the privacy concerns.
0:14:28But also just the fact that there's not--
0:14:30it's sort of like--
0:14:31I don't even remember what the other one's called anymore.
0:14:33Blu-ray versus--
0:14:34HD DVD.
0:14:35Right, there has not been--
0:14:37I found one of those the other day.
0:14:37I was like, oh, look.
0:14:38my HD DVD that I can't play anywhere.
0:14:41BetaMax versus VHS, that really has not shaken out except in this case there's at least three
0:14:46or four big players.
0:14:47And in the case there was that one dingus that Google bought out that was like the be-all,
0:14:52do-all meta hub and then they just kind of discontinued support for that.
0:14:56And that can be real frustrating.
0:14:57You're not going to, I mean, what if you went out and invested something along the lines
0:15:01of a Sonos system and then all of a sudden they just lost interest in updating the app.
0:15:04I mean, now you're kind of stuck.
0:15:06and I have talked about this, but it's like I really don't like the idea that my purchase
0:15:10of a thermostat two years ago suddenly will dictate all future like purchases I have to
0:15:18make for my home because it turns out that I have fallen into a, you know, a Wald's garden
0:15:23without my knowledge and now I'm stuck inside it. This case is interesting. Somebody pointed
0:15:28out by the way and tweeted at Neely Patel from The Verge that the good news is that
0:15:34these Knox speakers even though their app is 32-bit so you can't run it anymore. You
0:15:38could maybe find an old phone somebody's got, but they also run an apparently un-passworded
0:15:45web server in them. So if you can find their IP address on your local network, you can
0:15:48just go there and change the settings there, which that's the good news. The bad news is,
0:15:53yes, your speakers have been running an unsecured web server for the entire time that you've
0:15:57had them. So, you know. But I'm the guy with the iPod Hi-Fi, so what do I know?
0:16:04Yeah, I still got some old jam boxes kicking around that we actually don't use too much now that we listen on.
0:16:13I mean, we do some Bluetooth speaker-ing, but most of it is with speakers that are capable of other things as well.
0:16:19And I was really amazed. I just fired a couple of these up the other day and charged them and they still work.
0:16:23I have not had luck running the Jawbone app to do the full update.
0:16:28That's being a little bulky for me. And the truth is, you have to be a pretty canny Googler.
0:16:33I don't think they make those speakers anymore.
0:16:36They're all in on the-- what are they called?
0:16:39Like little Fitbit-style dingus.
0:16:41I forget what it's called.
0:16:42But that's what Job Bonus is all in on now.
0:16:45The up.
0:16:46Yes, right.
0:16:47So you do have to do a little bit of canny Googling
0:16:49just to even find the app that you need.
0:16:50And then once you run the app, it runs in your menu bar.
0:16:53It wants to be on all the time.
0:16:54And then when you click on My Devices,
0:16:56it actually takes you to a web page on the web
0:17:00that then I guess is handshaking somehow with the app on your Mac.
0:17:03And of course, now I have, because I have a MacBook,
0:17:06I have numerous dongles just to get to even that point.
0:17:09So it becomes hard to trace exactly what you need to do to get your speakers up to date.
0:17:14- Yeah, and this is the thing that smart tech is cool,
0:17:18but you are putting yourself at risk of being obsolete for computer reasons instead.
0:17:25Like, again, the iPod HiFi, yeah, it's got a dock connector on top,
0:17:28and that's dead and it was charging by a fire wire so it was did actually even
0:17:32before the dock connector was out it was really incompatible but it's got the
0:17:35it's got the three and a half inch plug which is not yet incompatible with my
0:17:39computer so that's good it's savage but it works I saw somebody over the weekend
0:17:43saying something along the lines of oh this is my life now I just had to reboot
0:17:46a light switch yeah oh I I did a I did a light bulb firmware update at one point
0:17:51and that was like well this is so it's come to this you gotta make sure they're
0:17:55all on make sure they're talking about my little metric time clock thingy i
0:17:59mean the difference between that in the squeeze box is the squeeze box ran some
0:18:03server software which while while branded by logitech it the way that slim
0:18:09devices put it together originally it's an open source project and it runs in
0:18:12pearl so theoretically if you maintain this squeeze box hardware you might have
0:18:18to write some stuff yourself or you might like loose features they used to
0:18:21support more streaming services and all of those api's died and there's nobody
0:18:24there to update them from a corporation that can make a deal, so they all kind of died.
0:18:28I mean, there's stuff that died, but the core server is in Perl. It just runs, and it runs
0:18:33fine. And that's my fear with the Limetric Time stuff, is like, I have to kind of go
0:18:37to their app, and although I can make an app on their website, and I can point it at--all
0:18:43it's doing is calling my server, I do have this moment where I realize if that company
0:18:47goes out of business, unless they're very, very nice in relocating the intellectual property
0:18:53somewhere, that thing will just die and there's nothing I can do about it. And that's just--
0:18:59it bugs me, but at the same time, that's the trade-off. It's like, so much of what we have
0:19:04now, you are making a trade-off for privacy or you're making a trade-off of inconvenience
0:19:09or being in a walled garden, or you're taking a risk, whether it's something like this or
0:19:13it's a Kickstarter project, you're taking a risk like I hope they don't die and don't
0:19:17get bought by somebody who kills all the products, which is what happened when Logitech bought
0:19:20slim devices. So you know, you're making gambles all over the place. So obsolescence isn't
0:19:25what it used to be. That's what I'm really saying here.
0:19:29Obsolescence 2.0, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Now about to be replaced
0:19:33with 3.0 beta of obsolescence. But I don't know, old speakers. Casey Alissa's dad's old
0:19:40record player probably still is fine. That's all I'm saying.
0:19:44All those records still sound so warm. Yeah, they do. It's the ritual, Marlon. It's
0:19:47the warming ritual. We have a lot to talk about on this show and we're just getting started. So
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0:21:52something that FreshBooks helps you do if you're not using FreshBooks yet guess
0:21:56what try it try it now you can try for 30 days for free because you're an
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0:22:19Just a great sponsor. In some ways, it's a shame that they frame it as invoicing, because
0:22:24the invoicing part is, you know, just computers do that. But the way that they provide you
0:22:27those payment gateways, that changes everything. You know, you're not out there waiting for
0:22:31a check like a sucker. I mean, people can just pay it. They want to use a credit card,
0:22:34could do that. It makes it so easy. Very nice. This is a segment we do, if you're not familiar
0:22:40with the upgrade program, Merlin, called Upstream. Upstream. It's a new-ish segment where we
0:22:46talk about the, you know, Apple is, we talk about Apple a lot and Apple is making this
0:22:53foray into video streaming services. It's going to have its own service next year sometime,
0:22:58probably. That's the story now. And there's a lot of action going on there. Now you know
0:23:03I talk about this with Tim Goodman from The Hollywood Reporter on TV Talk Machine, a podcast
0:23:08I do with him on Fridays.
0:23:10But Myke and I try to talk about it from the kind of bringing it to the tech podcast world
0:23:15and talking about it in that context and what Apple's up to.
0:23:19And last week, Apple was up to something because they made a deal with, I guess, the estate
0:23:24of Isaac Asimov to get the rights to a TV show based on the foundation books, which
0:23:32have basically never been adapted. A bunch of people have tried and failed, but this
0:23:36is now set up with a production company. And David Goyer and Josh Friedman are the creatives
0:23:43behind it. And so Apple, I guess, didn't make the deal with Asimov Estate. Apple made the
0:23:47deal with a production company that had already made that deal. But it's like a whole chain
0:23:50of deals—I hope they use FreshBooks—that let them do this thing. And it's fascinating
0:23:56because Foundation—I read this, and Foundation was a very important early science fiction
0:24:02It's been incredibly influential. But if you go back and read them, and I did a couple years ago for The Incomparable,
0:24:08what you find is it's not really written for, I would say, a modern audience. Asimov was an ideas guy, and he was brimming with ideas.
0:24:20He was not really a characters guy or a plot guy. So you read the books and you're like,
0:24:28it's almost as if Gene Roddenberry dropped down like the Bible for Star Trek, but no
0:24:32episodes and then walked away. Or like two episodes, like a couple pilot episodes, and
0:24:38that was it. And so I actually think this Foundation thing might be a good idea because
0:24:44it puts the responsibility of kind of creating the details of the story, the characters,
0:24:51and the plot lines in the hands of the creative TV people using Asimov's work as kind of just
0:24:57the base instead of having like a whole bunch of well-loved characters everybody
0:25:01knows them they know what they look like they know what they're supposed to do
0:25:03they know exactly what the plot is sort of like Game of Thrones was like up
0:25:07until they ran out of books and so like I think this may be better like it's
0:25:12it's still a gamble because everything is a gamble but I think this might be
0:25:16better I don't know if you've read foundation or not but I haven't but I
0:25:20read your article a very good article about on six colors and I I think I
0:25:24I agree with you. First of all, if Tim, for whatever reason, can ever not make it onto
0:25:31the podcast and you need somebody to sit in and have red wine, please have me because
0:25:34I love that show. The Times of Confusion, Platinum TV.
0:25:36So much television out there.
0:25:38I'm so interested. I feel like you, me, and Joe Steele could just do a show about this
0:25:43stuff because I am finding it increasingly very interesting, not specifically with regard
0:25:49to Apple and Foundation, but just the way that stuff like Netflix--
0:25:53I talked about this on some show.
0:25:56I want to say back to work recently.
0:25:57One of the many podcasts that you're on.
0:25:59But I was talking about how, for one thing--
0:26:03oh, no, it was Systematic with Bret Terpstra.
0:26:05And I was thinking how it's in the same way
0:26:07that I think people don't think of themselves as computer users and Apple
0:26:12users as much as they used to.
0:26:13We do still think about ourselves as consumers of content.
0:26:16And in an age where you can get Netflix on almost any kind of device, like if it's got
0:26:21a light-up screen, you can pretty much get Netflix on it.
0:26:24And I feel like that's sneaking in.
0:26:26Everybody gets that Netflix is a big deal.
0:26:29We have that experience.
0:26:30We had this experience yesterday.
0:26:31We turned on Netflix.
0:26:32Guess what?
0:26:33Lost in Space.
0:26:34Rated PG.
0:26:35I can watch it with my kid.
0:26:36I had no idea this was coming.
0:26:37Here's this thing on there.
0:26:39And I don't know.
0:26:40I mean, I know this is just a quickie for Upstream, but can you update me?
0:26:45I understand the TV landscape flawlessly, but I thought you might want to explain to
0:26:48your listeners.
0:26:49Where do you think Apple is going with the addition of stuff like this?
0:26:54Do you think they're going to get more into...
0:26:57I mean, this is interesting because there are people who've read these books and love
0:27:00them, and I know they're very influential, but it's not the same kind of nostalgia reboot
0:27:06update idea that you see with a lot of things.
0:27:08And what you're describing here, this can be heavily modernized for a current world.
0:27:12I mean, do you think--
0:27:14I don't know.
0:27:14I'm just curious what you think about how this fits in.
0:27:16I consume a ton of Hulu, a ton of Netflix,
0:27:20giant amounts of YouTube.
0:27:21I'm still struggling to understand
0:27:24where the Apple TV offering is going to fit into my world.
0:27:27And I know you've talked about it,
0:27:29but as you get more pieces to that puzzle,
0:27:31where do you see it fitting into the, if not today's,
0:27:35ecosystem, the emerging ecosystem
0:27:37of streaming services?
0:27:38I think the reason this is the platinum age,
0:27:39and the reason there's too much TV,
0:27:40because it's a land rush, because everybody's realizing that the digital revolution means
0:27:47that you don't need access to a cable system in order to get your content out there and
0:27:52to build a business. And actually Disney's really excited about it because they released
0:27:57their new streaming service, ESPN Plus, which is like a $5 a month or $6 a month streaming
0:28:02service. And they talked again, as they've talked for a while now about this idea that
0:28:07They want to become increasingly direct-to-consumer company, eliminating the middleman and saying,
0:28:14basically, "You pay Disney, and Disney gives you content."
0:28:17And they like that, right?
0:28:18They like just, "Yes, give us the cash, and we'll give you your Star Wars shows, and we'll
0:28:22give you your Marvel shows, and we'll give you ESPN, we'll give you some hurling and
0:28:29rugby and things, the second division soccer on ESPN Plus."
0:28:34And they are able to do that now because they've got, you can just use the internet for streaming.
0:28:41And Apple wants to be in that conversation.
0:28:43I think that's a big part of this is, I think it's unrealistic to think that in five years
0:28:49or ten years, there are going to be dozens and dozens of $10 a month video streaming
0:28:55services, all of which are paying top shelf creators to do 20 shows a year of, 20 series
0:29:04of 12 or 10 episodes a year for billions of dollars. It's not sustainable, I think.
0:29:09It makes this feel a little bit like the Pets.com era, where we know it's a loss leader to deliver
0:29:15this giant cat food for free or for $5 or whatever.
0:29:19I think there's going to be a crash where the people who are working in television now,
0:29:24I think a lot of the jobs will go away eventually because I think in the end it won't be sustainable
0:29:30to the degree it is now. I don't know how brutal a crash it will be, but I think there
0:29:33be one. And this is when I talk to people and they're like, "Another streaming service?
0:29:36I don't want to spend another $10 a month for another streaming service." And I mean,
0:29:41first off, they're not mandatory. It was just like if you heard about a great show on HBO
0:29:46and you weren't paying for HBO, you could grouse about it. But there was a solution,
0:29:50which is you could pay for HBO and get it, or you just don't and you don't. And those
0:29:53are kind of your choices. But I do think that in the long run, we won't be paying for 15
0:30:00streaming services, stuff's going to get bundled together, and you're going to be sort of cutting
0:30:06the cord eventually. Everybody is going to not be thinking of television as like paying
0:30:11for cable TV. It's all going to be streaming services. Amazon's aggressively bundling services
0:30:16together inside of Prime Video already. Stuff like that's going to continue happening where
0:30:21you can buy services inside of other services or you can buy bundles. And Apple wants in
0:30:26on all that. Apple wants something exclusive, I think, that will probably only run on their
0:30:31stuff. I think they want that.
0:30:32Okay, that's key. That's key. So you feel like this will run probably on Apple TV? You
0:30:37don't think this is something you'll get on Roku?
0:30:39I don't think it is. I think that would be really interesting if that happened, but it
0:30:43would be contrary to all of Apple's strategy up to now. I think the only reason Apple Music
0:30:47is on Android is because Beats was on Android, and so they decided to keep it around. But
0:30:51I think ultimately this is the reason Apple is spending this money is primarily to attach
0:30:55people to Apple's platforms. And Apple wants to be in the game and Apple wants to be considered
0:31:01and Apple wants to be one of those big players and help set the scene here. And they want
0:31:05to be, ultimately, they want to be one of the last ones left standing when the music
0:31:10stops, because there will be a reckoning. And Apple has the money to be a player. I
0:31:15think that's what you see with a lot of this stuff is who's got the money to ante up for
0:31:20this game because it's a high-stakes game and if you aren't paying top-notch creators
0:31:25and getting great content and you know the story is that Jeff Bezos told the people at
0:31:29Amazon he wants the next Game of Thrones. He doesn't want like little quirky comedies
0:31:35that win Golden Globe Awards as much as I liked Mozart and the Jungle which just got
0:31:38canceled. It was not going to be a worldwide phenomenon and that's the shifting to a blockbuster
0:31:47to it, like I want that Game of Thrones, I want that Blockbuster, I think that's all
0:31:51part of this, which is people want the huge hits, the must-watches, because they want
0:31:56to be indispensable, because there will come a time when there are so many different services
0:32:01that people are going to be forced to choose which ones they're going to stay with, and
0:32:05that's going to probably kill, you know, not necessarily kill the niche players that are
0:32:09kind of like, you know, like something like Acorn that's just like British TV and other
0:32:14European TV and other Commonwealth TV. Or like, for people younger than us,
0:32:19Crunchyroll. Exactly right. I see Crunchyroll show up on Roku or Apple TV or
0:32:24whatever and I don't think about it but my daughter's friends watch tons of anime.
0:32:29And those I think have a real chance to succeed although they might also get
0:32:33kind of bought and sucked into a bigger player but like the big players who are
0:32:37like the game they're playing is prestige television scripted. Like, how many of those
0:32:45can make it? There was a time when there was literally just HBO and Showtime, and now we
0:32:50have kind of this increasing number of people playing that game, and Netflix has taken it
0:32:54to a whole, you know, even higher level. And you can do that for a while, but in the end
0:33:00I don't think the world is going to accept ten of those or whatever. So I think there
0:33:08will be a reckoning at some point. But Apple wants to be in the game. Apple wants to be
0:33:12talked about. And I think Apple really does want something to break through where everybody's
0:33:15like, "Oh my God, I need that Ron Moore sci-fi show," or "I need amazing stories," or "I
0:33:20need the Jennifer Aniston Reese Witherspoon drama that is a buzz-worthy drama," or whatever
0:33:27breaks through or shows breakthrough because that's good for them because then they're
0:33:31like well yeah you can you can only watch that on your iPhone or your iPad or your Apple
0:33:35TV. The only thing that, gosh I got a lot of thoughts about this and I know we're still
0:33:39early in the show, but it feels like they're doing a play like with Amazon Prime in some
0:33:45ways it seems like they're maybe skating where the puck was. It feels like they're doing
0:33:49a little bit of an HBO play where they they want the the prestige. It's just that HBO
0:33:54run on a lot of different things. The thing that I find concerning, again, we haven't
0:34:01seen much, there's nothing to look at yet to evaluate this, but it just feels like that
0:34:06Venn diagram gets pretty tight of people who have Apple products and would want this particular
0:34:10thing. They're closing off a lot of the markets. It's a little bit like the days when Steve
0:34:15initially didn't want iPods to work with Windows, that kind of thing.
0:34:20I agree that the like, if they wanted the streaming service to be the most successful,
0:34:25it could be as a streaming service you'd want it everywhere. I'm not sure that Apple as
0:34:31a company is investing in a streaming service because they want to have a successful streaming
0:34:36service business, right? Like maybe they do. Maybe they've completely changed their approach.
0:34:40And the services line in their budget is about like anything. It could be literally anything
0:34:46you could think of as a service. It doesn't have to be tied to Apple's hardware or platforms
0:34:50in any other way. But I have a hard time believing that. I think in the end they see it as a
0:34:55means to an end, which is getting people in their ecosystem and not just making whatever
0:35:01$10 a month off of somebody who's using a Roku box. But I could be wrong. I mean, that
0:35:05would be a very different thing for them. It contributes to developing and growing.
0:35:11I hate when people use that verb that way, but basically trying to get more of a halo
0:35:15effect. The idea is like you love your iPhone, now check out these other things.
0:35:18Yeah, yeah, and maybe a little bit of like, "Oh, that's a really buzz-worthy show, but
0:35:22you got to have an Apple device to watch it, or you have to wait." And that they want that.
0:35:26Kind of like the Star Trek show, sort of, with CBS a little bit?
0:35:29Yeah, well, I mean, with CBS, they're really just trying to build a business. I think the
0:35:35smart thing, because that makes Star Trek fans really angry about the fact that in the
0:35:38US, it's Netflix everywhere else but the US and Canada, but Star Trek fans in the US are
0:35:43really grumpy that that show got on CBS All Access and not on something else. It was basically
0:35:48you need to pay for this one show.
0:35:50That sounds like nobody particularly loves using that app.
0:35:53Yeah, well, yeah. So the funny thing about it is, though, that was, I think from a business
0:35:58perspective, as far as I can tell, a great success for them because they got a lot of
0:36:04people to sign up for CBS All Access, their streaming service, and they're trying to build
0:36:09that service. And they got names, and they got people to advertise to, and some of them
0:36:12maybe stayed as subscribers and some of them will come back next time. And they did it
0:36:17all with a show that the Netflix purchase basically paid for. So everything was about
0:36:22building a future business and making a profit on it. And it was an investment for them.
0:36:28And it would have been easier for them to take a bigger profit and be on Netflix everywhere
0:36:34in the world. But in the US they're like, "Yeah, but we want to build our own. We want
0:36:37to have our own thing." And CBS doesn't do it the way other companies do it, but they
0:36:41They do have a strategy and they have been very successful as a business.
0:36:45There are a lot of stories about how, you know, there's rumors about Viacom and CBS
0:36:49coming back together because they used to be together and they got split apart.
0:36:53And the funny thing about the story is that 10 years ago when they got split apart, CBS
0:36:58was viewed as this legacy business that it was like, "Good luck Les Moonves, head of
0:37:02CBS, with your legacy network business," whereas the cable TV business was viewed as this.
0:37:07Like that was the shining growth opportunity.
0:37:10now when the owner or like majority shareholder of both is trying to get
0:37:15them both together again, Sherry Redstone, the perception is like CBS doesn't want
0:37:19to touch Viacom because CBS has actually been very profitable and successful and
0:37:24Viacom is seen as being troubled. That's one of my favorite running observations from Tim
0:37:28on TV Talk Machine is just that idea of like, "Hey, CBS, you know, you may not make
0:37:33it into the power rankings too often but like keep doing what you're doing." It's
0:37:36not for me but like it's working. It's a successful business and that's the thing about
0:37:39Star Trek is like Star Trek fans are grumpy about it being on that show being on CBS All
0:37:43Access but it was a good business move like it was a really smart business move I think
0:37:47the real question is do they have the budget and do they have I know they've got some ambition
0:37:51but do they have the budget to build that thing into something that people keep as a
0:37:55subscription year round and they have like three or four original shows on it now so
0:38:00I keep thinking and as a Star Trek fan I will admit that this is also some some wish casting
0:38:05happening here, but I keep thinking you own Star Trek, you have a streaming service, why
0:38:11are you not developing multiple Star Trek shows now? You launched one, you got a second
0:38:16season of that coming, like, put your money in here, because this is a franchise you could
0:38:20run with and get people to subscribe, but instead they've got like the Star Trek thing
0:38:26and they've got like the Good Wife spinoff and they've got a comedy show and I think
0:38:31there's another drama that's coming and it's just kind of scattershot now. So that's the
0:38:35question for CBS is not that it wasn't a bad move it's that like what's your big
0:38:39plan here is it to just are they are they hoping to get a lot of I mean isn't
0:38:44there isn't it fair to say that their demo tends to skew a little older on
0:38:48network but I think I'm on stop on streaming there there it's a much
0:38:53younger audience they said but times of confusion it is a wacky time I have one
0:38:59other upstream thing I wanted to mention which is something that also came up on
0:39:02on TV Talk Machine, which is FanTV, which is a really great app. It used to be FanHatton.
0:39:07It's a place where you could go and like find out like where's that movie? Where's that
0:39:10TV show? Where's it available? What streaming services is it on? Is it for rent or for sale
0:39:14at iTunes or Amazon? Is it on cable? Where is it? And it died. It's already well and
0:39:22truly dead. I think it died today. I think today is the death of FanTV. And it got bought
0:39:29by TiVo or maybe Rovio, which became TiVo, and it just got sucked into the maw of that
0:39:34intellectual property whirlwind and is gone. So a lot of people were asking like, "Well,
0:39:41what app should I use or web service should I use to track my shows?" Whether it's like,
0:39:45"What shows should I watch now?" or whether it's, "Can I stream this in this place or
0:39:50in that place?" And I have a few recommendations for people. Like, I heard from a bunch of
0:39:55people last week about this that just watch dot-com is great that there's
0:40:00tracked dot TV TR a k t dot TV TV time dot-com and their apps for most of these
0:40:06things to somebody recommended can I stream it which is literally can I
0:40:10stream dot it
0:40:12although last time I used it it was not reliable for me it was saying things
0:40:16were not streamable that were can I stream it use was the first one I knew
0:40:19of for doing that, but it's been pretty undependable.
0:40:23The Just Watch has something I like a lot,
0:40:26which is once you go in and get your account set up,
0:40:28you get to basically pick which of the streaming services
0:40:31you want, which makes it a lot easier to go in and find stuff.
0:40:34So you could say, well, I'd be willing to buy it from here,
0:40:37but not from there.
0:40:37And then when you bring in something like-- what's
0:40:39it called?
0:40:39Movie-- I know this is movies, not TV, but movies anywhere.
0:40:42Have you talked about that much here?
0:40:44We talked about it a little bit.
0:40:45I mean, boy, such a fascinating time right now.
0:40:49when you get your stuff like where where does that exist where can you get it
0:40:52where does it live you know Siri on Apple TV helps with that an okay amount
0:40:57it doesn't gobble up all of the apps but that's that's the trick right is like
0:41:00who are the apps willing to put themselves in the search my Tivo
0:41:03honestly and this is why they bought fan TV I think my Tivo does a great job my
0:41:08Tivo actually has a pretty good job of knowing what streaming based on the
0:41:11streaming services it supports anyway it can say so I could get I could get
0:41:15Seinfeld reruns from any of these places and it'll say this show's current season
0:41:18is on CBS but the past season's on Hulu and it'll show you all the episodes and
0:41:22the ones that are on Hulu will play on Hulu and the ones that are on CBS you
0:41:26can record on CBS and it does it that way for everything which is pretty clever.
0:41:29TV Times cool too. I don't use the website much but I do use it on my phone.
0:41:34That really wants to be like I guess like all of these it really wants to be
0:41:38kind of a maybe along the lines of letterbox for movies it wants to be a
0:41:42social network it wants to be something where you're sharing it with people and
0:41:45And they're seeing your reviews and stuff.
0:41:48But TV time's pretty good.
0:41:49I just loaded up with all the shows, especially ones
0:41:51that aren't-- like, like, when's Doctor Who come back on,
0:41:53and stuff like that.
0:41:54All the shows, Marlin?
0:41:55All the great shows.
0:41:57They're all in there.
0:41:59Yeah.
0:42:00I also just want to mention, this is not strictly germane,
0:42:03but if you don't know about this, listeners,
0:42:05Flixable is very, very good.
0:42:08It's not for tracking, but it does one thing very well.
0:42:12And that is, it is a website that shows you, basically,
0:42:15sorted by date when stuff got added to Netflix. So if like me you've ever struggled to figure
0:42:20out what's new, you know there is new stuff, but in their infinite scrolling interface,
0:42:24the infinite carousel of hell, Flixable is really great. They have a tab for movies,
0:42:29a tab for TV, and it's a great way to just pop in every week or two and say, "Oh, did
0:42:32I miss anything?" Like here's this spate of Indian subcontinent sitcoms that they've added
0:42:38or whatever. But you'll also see there's Wild Wild Country, here's stuff that was recently
0:42:41added to keep you from losing your mind as a Netflix user try flexible f l i x a b l e
0:42:47dot com I have some other topics for us to talk about but let me say some words about
0:42:53our next sponsor this is Pingdom Pingdom awesome people at Pingdom and why are they awesome
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0:44:08went down and I got this and I was at, where was I? I was like at a baseball game or I
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0:44:35nobody noticed like nobody had time to send you that email saying I think your website
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0:44:46you were just seeing things that's that is great I have done that every now and then
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0:45:22Thank you, Pingdom, for supporting this show in Real AFM and presumably making it so that
0:45:27if Steven breaks the Real AFM website, we hear about it before you do.
0:45:31Because that could happen.
0:45:33It's happened before is all I'm saying.
0:45:35Steven: It happens.
0:45:36Jared: Uh, some news we should talk about.
0:45:38I wrote a, I did a dumb thing just because I thought it would be funny and it kind of
0:45:43turned into a bigger thing.
0:45:46It starts with this story, though. Apple put a time bomb in the latest version of Mac OS.
0:45:52It's kind of weird. 1013.4 came out a couple weeks ago, but they put a time bomb in for
0:45:57like Thursday the 12th at midnight local time. And after that point, if you launched an app
0:46:04that was a 32-bit app—
0:46:05This is in High Sierra.
0:46:06Yeah, so High Sierra only, the latest version of High Sierra. 1013.4. So, such a catchy
0:46:13set of numbers that is. It will put up a little box that says basically this is an old app,
0:46:22email the developer, shame them, which you shouldn't do. You should check on your developer's
0:46:29website and see if they've already made a statement about it. And then if they haven't,
0:46:34you could send them a very nice email. I imagine that's what most people do. They probably
0:46:37go and check. They probably do, yeah. It says this app is not optimized for your Mac. It
0:46:41to be updated by its developer—again, it's not you, it's them—to improve compatibility.
0:46:47Also, by the way, 32-bit Apple apps don't get this warning, because Apple does not want
0:46:53you to contact them about their apps that are not being updated. And this is—now,
0:46:58there's a lot of panic that could happen here, and it doesn't need to happen. In fact,
0:47:01I was kind of talking Marco down via sending text messages to Casey when they were doing
0:47:06ATP last week about this, because it had just sort of broken right before, and I'd written
0:47:09my article about it, that even though—so Apple has said in the past, this is not news,
0:47:16that in a future version of Mac OS, 32-bit apps won't run anymore. They have said that.
0:47:22But a key thing—
0:47:24On the infinite timescale.
0:47:25Exactly right. On an infinite timescale. Well, no software is going to run on an infinite
0:47:30timescale, except for Unix. It will be around forever. But what they said at WWDC last year was,
0:47:36in the next version of macOS, so the one that comes out this fall, 32-bit apps—well, let's see,
0:47:45High Sierra, they said the one that's out now will be the last version of macOS to run 32-bit apps
0:47:52without compromise. And I checked on this, because there's some nuance here,
0:47:57because the implication from that is they will run, but there will be an unstated compromise.
0:48:03And I asked around and I can say that I was told yes, that interpretation is exactly right.
0:48:12This fall's macOS updates not going to not run them, but there will be an unstated compromise.
0:48:18Who knows what that is? It could be an annoying dialog box, even more annoying than this one.
0:48:22It could be that you have to, by default, they don't run and you have to reboot and do something
0:48:26and set something in order for it to run. And then Apple can say, "Haha, you don't get this
0:48:30awesome feature at 100% or at all because you're in the wrong mode. There's lots of
0:48:34complexity there that might make you not want to run them, but they're not going to be completely
0:48:40shut out this fall. But, you know, next fall, probably is my guess, right? Maybe not, maybe
0:48:46not, but probably, which means this is like an 18 month warning. This is a gentle transition.
0:48:52But it's definitely one of the, it's a classic, it's a classic warning shot from Apple. I
0:48:57I mean, Apple watchers will over time realize that when Apple issues this kind of, I guess
0:49:04you could call it a warning, but definitely a heads up.
0:49:06Make your way toward the exits.
0:49:09Make your way toward the exits.
0:49:10We're not saying that you have to run.
0:49:12There's plenty of time, but you will need to make your way toward the exits.
0:49:16I don't know if it's because of this particular computer I'm on because I'm an old man and
0:49:19I am very reluctant to update.
0:49:21My MacBook, adorable, has High Sierra, but I'm just running Sierra.
0:49:25So when you look at, so you can do this by going to system information and then going
0:49:32to the application section, subsection in hardware and see which ones are available.
0:49:36I'm seeing a lot, a whole lot of stuff, including a lot of surprising Apple apps.
0:49:43Oh yeah.
0:49:44There's a lot of that's, that's why Apple, I mean, and to be fair, Apple's got the home
0:49:47field advantage here.
0:49:48App Apple can keep those 32 bit apps around as long as they want and keep them running
0:49:53or they can only update them to 64-bit when they release the version that only runs 64-bit.
0:50:03They're their own time table, right?
0:50:06But for example, do you feel confident that we'll still be able to, for example, run firmware
0:50:12password utility?
0:50:13They'll probably give that a little...
0:50:15I think not.
0:50:16I think not.
0:50:18Well that brings to...
0:50:20hardware and stuff like that is part of this story, right? Because it's not just old software,
0:50:24it's old hardware. Like I did, so the dumb thing that I did, because I thought it would
0:50:28be funny, is when I realized that Apple's apps didn't generate the warning, I filed
0:50:33a bug, because they always say file a radar. I filed a radar for QuickTime Player 7 saying,
0:50:40"Oh, QuickTime Player 7 isn't 64-bit, so you should do that." And that was closed with
0:50:47prejudice as we're not going to do that." It's like, "All right, fair." So then I wrote
0:50:52another bug report, which was, "Oh, QuickTime Player 10 doesn't have all these features
0:50:57that are in QuickTime Player 7, and since QuickTime Player 7 is going away, you should
0:51:01probably put them in QuickTime Player 10. Check and mate." Right? I'm waiting for that
0:51:06to be closed. It hasn't been closed yet, I'm sure it will. Or closed as a duplicate, because
0:51:10people have been complaining about this. It's the reason QuickTime Player 7, which is ancient,
0:51:15runs and is still kicking around is because just this weekend I used it to
0:51:20put an audio soundtrack on top of a video that I had that was a different
0:51:26soundtrack and then we did an incomparable like commentary track about
0:51:31Star Wars and I have a Star Wars mp4 and I have this wave file of our commentary
0:51:37you did two versions and I did yeah because there's a special editions which
0:51:41we didn't watch and I you know basically in QuickTime I just like add the audio
0:51:44track in and then export it out as an MP4 and boom I've got an MP4 with the
0:51:49new audio track in it was you know this is why we we keep it around but Apple's
0:51:54QuickTime API's never really got updated for 64-bit QuickTime Player 10 doesn't
0:51:58apparently really use the old QuickTime at all it's just kind of QuickTime in
0:52:02name only or for the most part Greg Pak the comic book writer and also
0:52:07sometimes filmmaker tweeted at me like oh does this mean Final Cut 7 is finally
0:52:13gonna die and I was like yeah actually yeah it does that's for all the people
0:52:17who are holding out and doesn't mean it's gonna stop working but it means
0:52:20that if you update to the version after the version that comes this fall it may
0:52:24not run anymore at all what about the old garage band you think the old garage
0:52:27band is garage band 6 or whatever that's 32 bed that'll stop running but so here's
0:52:33the thing it's not like if you're really committed to old software you can keep
0:52:36your old computer with your old software and not update and you can still use it
0:52:40and it's okay. The problem is that if you are fully dedicated to the Final Cut Pro 7
0:52:45lifestyle and you still edit all your movies on it and you don't care, you can keep buying
0:52:52computers that run it up to the point where Apple releases an OS that doesn't support
0:52:57it, at which point you have to just keep using your old computer forever. And that's where
0:53:03the incompatibility really hurts you is, "Oh, I can use Final Cut 7 and you use it for several
0:53:11years and you're like, 'Oh, it's fine,' and then your computer breaks and you're like,
0:53:14'Oh, I guess I need a new Mac.'" Uh-oh. Because it won't. And that's, I mean, this is life,
0:53:21right? I mean, software doesn't last forever. OSes always get updated and break old software.
0:53:25This is just a more dramatic kind of large-scale example of it. But this stuff happens. It's
0:53:32just if it's something that you love that is going away, it's hard. So it's not, again,
0:53:39you can make your way to the exit slowly, but this is Apple just continuing to push
0:53:45things along. I do wonder about that without compromise, though. I do wonder if by default
0:53:49they won't run and there'll be some whizzy new feature that they introduced this fall
0:53:55that will just not work in that mode. So that's the question, how painful will that compromise
0:54:02if you're still running 32-bit apps. Oh, the DVD player, by the way. DVD player is
0:54:0632-bit. Unclear whether Apple's gonna update that or just say, you know, run a
0:54:12virtual machine of Lion to get that. So many groupers title case
0:54:17service that I run. So many of the old Ecamm utilities. Yeah, well, they're all
0:54:22QuickTime. They can't go to 64-bit as long as they're based on QuickTime.
0:54:25What's gonna really suck, though, is this is also another pretty good
0:54:31example of as many warnings as they give to people. If there is a day where they just
0:54:36cut the cord, think about the terrible mixture of, let's say you're somebody who is using
0:54:42a Mac with these old apps and maybe you're not reading the trades, it's just going to
0:54:46be one day they're going to open it up and be like, "What happened to my Mac?"
0:54:49Right, right. Because that moment where it's, well, I think this is part of the compromises
0:54:54story though, is like this fall that'll happen is my theory. I think that's maybe the most
0:54:59likely thing is this fall you remember when they introduced gatekeeper and suddenly that
0:55:04app you downloaded from some shady place on the internet and you double clicked it and
0:55:07goes whoa you downloaded this from some weird place and by default I won't let you run it
0:55:11but you can go to the system preferences and change it so that I'll let you run it fine
0:55:16live dangerously right well I think I think maybe it'll be something like that where you
0:55:19open it up and be like okay I can't run 32-bit apps in this mode because this is super awesome
0:55:24mode of Mac OS, you know, Monterey Bay Otter. And then you're--but you can go in and turn
0:55:32it to less awesome mode and reboot, and everything will be kind of drab and gray, but you can
0:55:38run your old apps. And as a user, you're like, "Oh, hmm, okay, I'll do that." And so if you
0:55:44do that, then maybe the next year when you update again and it says, "Sorry, super awesome
0:55:49mode is the only mode now and you can't run 32-bit apps," you'll be a little less surprised.
0:55:53I think you still might be grumpy about it and you may be surprised, but I feel like
0:55:57this that actually is one of the values in doing the with compromises step.
0:56:03Is it like it's like, no, no, no, no, we're serious.
0:56:05This is going to go away.
0:56:07Like puts it in your fit.
0:56:08This is like, this is it puts it in your face.
0:56:10Once the next step will be to get it like where you're going to have to start changing
0:56:14settings to run it.
0:56:15And then the final step is it doesn't run.
0:56:17I don't know.
0:56:19It's going to frustrate people.
0:56:20It's a performance issue.
0:56:22Is that the idea?
0:56:22I think that's part of it. Metal is a 64-bit thing. It's performance to a degree, but I
0:56:29think it's also just maintenance. It will be easier when they can just say, "Everything
0:56:35in the system runs 64-bit clean. We don't have to translate. There's nothing we have
0:56:41to do. All the old crud goes away. All that 32-bit code." And that includes QuickTime.
0:56:46like it's gone, right? 32-bit QuickTime, gone. I imagine that that's less maintenance work
0:56:52and that the system will be better for it as a, you know, as a gestalt, as an overall
0:56:58system, right? You're ripping out the legacy stuff. The problem is when you rip out the
0:57:02legacy stuff, you take stuff people are using with it. And I mean, you could argue that
0:57:07that's one of the reasons Windows was so bad for so long is that Microsoft's customers
0:57:11did not let them rip anything out ever. I mean, it was very hard, much harder than Apple.
0:57:17Right, this might need to run on a set-top box in Vietnam, like, "We need to keep this."
0:57:22Yeah, exactly right. And so, you know, Apple's good at transitions, and this is actually
0:57:28kind of a long and kind one. I'm not saying that people who are angry about it can be
0:57:32angry about it, because if you're losing your favorite app, it makes sense. I will point
0:57:36out for a while now it's been legal to run Mac OS in a virtual machine and as ridiculous
0:57:44as it is if you have an app that you absolutely have to run and it's a 32-bit app you could
0:57:49probably make a virtual machine of High Sierra or Sierra or El Capitan or Yosemite or you
0:57:55know or anything that's covered by that license in VMware or Parallels and keep it around
0:58:02and it will run and it's legal to do that with old operating system versions.
0:58:06And that may be one way that people keep some of this stuff alive.
0:58:08I wouldn't recommend using Final Cut Pro 7 in emulation, right?
0:58:13Auntie Sue is not going to do that to keep her favorite Solitaire game going.
0:58:17Well, that's where the real bummer is going to happen.
0:58:20Now Auntie Sue may just keep her old computer.
0:58:24But until they put out that Mac Pro, she's been waiting for it.
0:58:27Exactly right.
0:58:28Finally, she says, "I've been using this G5 for 15 years,
0:58:32and now I'm going to upgrade to the Turbo Charger Solitaire. And then there's the thing that Myke
0:58:36and I have been talking about for a while now, which is there's also the rumors it's the elephant,
0:58:40because last week was all of the parables. Like the elephant in the room here is what's the future
0:58:46of the Mac, because there's like going to 64-bit and there's the rumors about leaving Intel behind
0:58:51and there's this question of like what do they do with, are they going to do something like the
0:58:56rumor about Marzipan where it's like iOS apps that also run on the Mac. All these things are swirling
0:59:01around because I have those moments where I think, I don't know, if 32-bit, old 32-bit
0:59:08Mac software maybe may not be the only thing we're going to be asked to leave
0:59:12behind on this platform in the next few years. I don't know. At some point if
0:59:17you leave everything behind there's nothing left. It's a platform
0:59:21transition and not just a software transition inside a platform, but Apple
0:59:25may test us on that one. Yeah, so anyway 32-bit apps, check it out. You can find
0:59:29out what apps you're running that are 32-bit. First off, if you're running
0:59:321013.4, it will tell you now that we're past April 12th. It will tell you the first time
0:59:38you launch it, only the first time. I dropped in a little link to this. I mean,
0:59:42most people might not probably know how to do this, but OS X daily has a real quick little
0:59:46how-to on using your little Apple menu and finding where you can locate these.
0:59:49Yeah, about this Mac, click on System Report, click on Applications, and one of the columns
0:59:53is Intel 64-bit and it says yes or no. You can even sort it, sort it and then look at
0:59:59all the nos. All the Adobe apps. My Adobe Air updater, oh no. I know, I found some files
1:00:06that I had a welcome to Lion, or getting started with Lion app. Oh wow. Deep down in a really
1:00:15weird folder somewhere. I sent Stephen Hackett because I know he likes really old Mac things,
1:00:20a link to that. It was just, um, yeah, I had welcomed to know it was welcome to leopard.
1:00:26Wow. Welcome to tiger. And also a MacBook pro user's guide for a MacBook pro that included
1:00:32an apple remote, a DVI to VGA adapter and a CD drive. So that's like, great. How long has that
1:00:38been in my mini migrations of my, my Mac? Nobody needs those ports anymore. No, no, it's not that,
1:00:46not that important. I wanted to talk to you because you're on this podcast and I want you
1:00:53to explain something because there was news about how a new version of the app Drafts is coming out.
1:00:58There's Drafts 5 and they've got a Drafts Pro and you know I love drafts.
1:01:03That's funny. That's a good one. You get a ding for that.
1:01:07First pick in the draft, I'll pick the app Drafts. So I want to ask you about this because I have
1:01:13heard people extol the virtues of drafts, and I have to admit I think I've never
1:01:17really gotten it. And I'm somebody who writes things on my iPad and my
1:01:22iPhone, I write articles on my iPad, I do all sorts of stuff on iOS, and I know
1:01:27people rave about this, and now with this new version coming out, I thought I'm
1:01:31going to have somebody on who can probably talk to me about like why, you
1:01:36know, why this app works and, you know, does it change your approach to putting
1:01:40text into an iOS device?
1:01:42Yeah, I just dropped in a link to a podcast I did with Greg Pierce and visiting with Rene
1:01:50Ritchie to talk about drafts.
1:01:51But you know, everybody has such a different approach and a different mindset for how we
1:01:55use our various devices.
1:01:57And there's a pattern that I fell into on starting obviously with my phone that's been
1:02:02a very interesting pattern for me.
1:02:03So first of all, I mean, one of the things that's a little bit perplexing about drafts
1:02:07is that when you open it up, it's just kind of like a big text
1:02:12field.
1:02:12It's blank.
1:02:13You're like, hmm.
1:02:13It's very blank.
1:02:14And there aren't a lot of buttons to click.
1:02:16It's not really clear what you're supposed to do next.
1:02:18And I think someone could be forgiven for thinking it's just
1:02:21like a little-- that it really stops at being
1:02:25a diminished version of notes.
1:02:26Like, you just type stuff in, and I
1:02:28guess that goes somewhere.
1:02:30The quick version is that under the hood,
1:02:34drafts can do a lot of stuff to your text.
1:02:37That could be text transformations.
1:02:38That could be sending it to someplace else.
1:02:41In the current version, it's not at the level of something
1:02:44like workflow.
1:02:45So the new version will do a lot of really, really interesting
1:02:52stuff.
1:02:53But rather than get too deep into that,
1:02:54listen to that podcast if you want to hear more.
1:02:56And I think Greg's going to be talking
1:02:57about this a lot in the coming week as the app comes out.
1:02:59But I can just tell you why it works for me.
1:03:04Not that it should work for everybody,
1:03:05but there's a funny thing I discovered about myself once I started using this app.
1:03:11Ordinarily in the past, if I wanted to send somebody a text message, I'd go to the message app and start typing.
1:03:18If I wanted to type an email, I'd hit C and compose a new message in Gmail.
1:03:24There are other kinds of things you'd think to put on the calendar.
1:03:27The first powerful thing that Drafts does is it can be a starting point for pretty much any kind of text.
1:03:32So I keep that in my little dock, click it, start typing.
1:03:36And then a common usage for me in the early days was,
1:03:39I've always had a particular fetish
1:03:41for being able to send email without seeing the incoming
1:03:45email.
1:03:45So for a long time for me, it's been a holy grail
1:03:48to not have to open an email app just to send an email.
1:03:50Because if I'm not in the-- well,
1:03:53I'm perhaps well known or notorious for this idea
1:03:56that you shouldn't be doing email all the time.
1:03:58You should be checking your email at times
1:04:00when you make time to do something about it.
1:04:02I still really believe that.
1:04:04I don't have any email notifications on.
1:04:06But I do need to send email sometimes.
1:04:07So just as one example, I have a little functionality in there
1:04:11where I type something.
1:04:13I type, you know, lunch downtown next week.
1:04:18I type two spaces.
1:04:19I type a little bit of text, hey Jason,
1:04:21do you want to have lunch at da-da-da-da next week?
1:04:23Love, Merlin.
1:04:24And this candy little script knows
1:04:26that in this context for this command,
1:04:29take that first line of text in drafts.
1:04:32that's gonna be the subject line of an email.
1:04:34Anything after that line is the body of the email.
1:04:37And so basically I can take my time
1:04:39to type in this little window,
1:04:40type the things I need to say, hit a button,
1:04:42and that then basically pops open a new mail
1:04:44where I can drop in the person's name,
1:04:47et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
1:04:48So the first thing was that became very useful to me
1:04:51'cause there's lots of times where I want a quick way,
1:04:54like something I've seen Dan Morin suffer from
1:04:57that you suffered from.
1:04:58Any time you do stuff in a CMS, back in the day,
1:05:01You would learn not to type long things in a text area
1:05:04because you just couldn't trust it.
1:05:06The browser might crash, you lose your work.
1:05:08I imagine you ran into that in the past trying to be a cowboy.
1:05:11Don't write it in the CMS.
1:05:13Don't write it in the CMS.
1:05:14So the simple way that I found it very useful
1:05:17is that was a real neat way for me to know that whenever
1:05:20I needed-- even if I knew exactly where it needed to go,
1:05:24I would often start there.
1:05:26I had the same interface every time I was dealing with text.
1:05:29This is not for everybody, but this is for me.
1:05:31I didn't want to necessarily open the email app.
1:05:33I didn't want to open the message app.
1:05:34If it's an important thing, I want to look at it.
1:05:36I want to see if there's any red lines under it
1:05:37telling me it's misspelled.
1:05:38I'm going to look at it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
1:05:40So I did that for a pretty good long time.
1:05:42A lot of times what I would just do is one of my scripts
1:05:44takes the first line of the drafts file and anything
1:05:50after it.
1:05:50And so basically it takes the first line
1:05:52and creates a new text file on Dropbox with a date stamp
1:05:56on it.
1:05:57This becomes a great way for things
1:05:59to get from the ephemeral world.
1:06:01I use draft fairly ephemerally.
1:06:03Many people use it for much more than that.
1:06:04I use it as a place to start text,
1:06:06and then I often send it somewhere else.
1:06:08And then I can go into NV alt, TextMate, or editorial on iOS
1:06:13and do other stuff with it.
1:06:16OK, so that in itself is pretty useful.
1:06:17I don't know if that's enough to make people want to buy it,
1:06:20but just that first pattern of always starting your text
1:06:23in this similar kind of area, it makes
1:06:26you careful about what you're doing and prevents mistakes.
1:06:28But then I noticed a fascinating thing start to happen
1:06:33that I would not have noticed if I always
1:06:34went to the supposed destination app to do it.
1:06:37So I discovered that a lot of times,
1:06:41something started as an idea.
1:06:42And then I started moving my fingers,
1:06:44and something happened.
1:06:45And once I was open to the idea that the text could
1:06:48go anywhere, and I had to think about where it went next,
1:06:51a funny thing happened.
1:06:52I realized that a lot of times, I'd
1:06:54start to write something that I thought
1:06:55was going to be a text message--
1:06:57yes-- in drafts.
1:06:58And I go, you know what?
1:06:59This is probably better as an email.
1:07:01I changed my mode of thinking.
1:07:02And now I'm writing an email in there instead of a text message.
1:07:05Other times, you're about to write somebody a really snarky email.
1:07:08And you go, oh, you know what?
1:07:09This would be better to just be a mean subtweet.
1:07:11Maybe I should do that instead.
1:07:13This should really be an angry blog post denouncing this person.
1:07:16But then there's other ones, too, where how often have you
1:07:19started to basically complain to somebody about something
1:07:23or request something from them?
1:07:25And you end up rubber ducking a little bit.
1:07:27And by typing, you start to realize the answer
1:07:29to your own problem.
1:07:30So you could go into drafts and start
1:07:32writing a long, mean email about this problem
1:07:35that somebody's caused for you.
1:07:36And as you're typing and rubber ducking, you suddenly go, oh,
1:07:39you know what?
1:07:39This actually could just be something
1:07:41that goes to a to-do list, something
1:07:42I can take care of myself.
1:07:44And then maybe sometimes-- how about this?
1:07:47Let's really pop the stack.
1:07:48Maybe you realize as you're about to communicate
1:07:50with somebody, you realize, you know what?
1:07:52I'm really talking to myself, and that's OK.
1:07:54This actually needs to go into a diary,
1:07:56or this needs to go into some kind of a running file.
1:07:58You see where I'm going with this.
1:07:59Once you open yourself up to that idea,
1:08:01I think an interesting kind of philosophical change
1:08:03in writing can happen, which is that you say,
1:08:06it doesn't matter where this will end up,
1:08:08really, it can start, it always should start in drafts.
1:08:12And once I'm done typing the thing that I like,
1:08:14then I decide what to do with it and where it goes.
1:08:17And so that's been really powerful for me.
1:08:19And it's not even getting into the redonkulous number
1:08:22of things that you can do with this.
1:08:23You can send it to Fantastical,
1:08:25or it'll be parsed for natural language.
1:08:27You could, as I say, send it to Dropbox.
1:08:29You could append or prepend to a list somewhere.
1:08:32And that's all available.
1:08:33You just kind of slide over to this little menu.
1:08:35And you can send stuff anywhere you want it to be.
1:08:36And yes, you can send it straight to an email app.
1:08:39You can send it to Messages.
1:08:41You could send it to wherever you want it to go.
1:08:43There's a rich collection of these things
1:08:45that people put together in a directory where
1:08:47you can find stuff that'll work for you,
1:08:49all the way down to things like markdown transformations, HTML
1:08:52previews. All that kind of stuff is in there and the language is too sophisticated for
1:08:58me to do from scratch but easy enough for me to change to do the kinds of things I want
1:09:02to do. So for me, Drafts is where all text starts.
1:09:05I like the idea, this is the part that I really get, which is instead it's a real shift, right,
1:09:12because we think in terms, at least, okay, we, I think, and I think a lot of us have
1:09:16been trained to think in terms of apps on our Macs and especially on our iOS devices,
1:09:21which is not "I need to write something." It's "I need to open notes for this kind of
1:09:26-- what kind of text is this?" Then I'll put it in notes. What kind of text is this? I'll
1:09:29put it in reminders. What kind of text is this? Gmail. This one goes to Fantastical.
1:09:34This one goes to Google Docs. This one goes to BB Edit, right? Like, in the end, I have
1:09:39all this overhead that is classifying what I think I'm going to do and pick the right
1:09:46tool for the job.
1:09:47It's almost like what app wants me to use it right now.
1:09:50- Right, right.
1:09:51And what you're saying is, if you kind of let go of that
1:09:53and just say, "I'm gonna start it in drafts,"
1:09:56that doesn't preclude you from finishing it somewhere else,
1:10:01but it means that you don't actually have to do
1:10:03that overhead before you start typey typing.
1:10:06- You put it very well.
1:10:07And I guess one part I should mention,
1:10:09'cause it's so important, is that it kind of wants
1:10:12to be ephemeral, but have a good memory.
1:10:16So you start typing in one of these.
1:10:18And first of all, these can all be synced.
1:10:21I think I was doing it through Dropbox.
1:10:23I don't even remember.
1:10:24But now, I mean, in the latest version,
1:10:25it just works great with iCloud.
1:10:27So on all of my devices, all my iOS devices,
1:10:30Drafts is running, as soon as I start typing,
1:10:33it's basically creating a new file, a new buffer.
1:10:35It just goes into the cloud.
1:10:36And at any time, you can go back.
1:10:38You can do a search for any string
1:10:39to find what you're looking for.
1:10:40The new version includes stuff like tags and flagging,
1:10:43if you like that sort of stuff.
1:10:44But what you're describing here is,
1:10:46let's say I get distracted and go somewhere else,
1:10:47but I don't have to go save it out of a browser window.
1:10:50It's already saved in there, and I can search all that stuff
1:10:52very easily.
1:10:53Another nice new thing-- not new thing, but a nice feature--
1:10:55is you can select the amount of time
1:10:59before it automatically creates a new blank page saving
1:11:02your old one.
1:11:04So you might want to set that to five minutes.
1:11:06You might want to set that to one minute, where you're like,
1:11:08I'll be working on this, move around on the phone,
1:11:10come back, copy, paste, do whatever.
1:11:11It's got a great extension where you can create a new file
1:11:15or append and prepend using iOS extensions, which
1:11:17is hugely useful when you're making show notes
1:11:19or something like that.
1:11:21But then there's a new thing he's added called,
1:11:23I think it's called Focus Mode, which
1:11:24is just always leave my last note up until I say otherwise.
1:11:28So yeah, it really can be adjusted
1:11:31to however you like to work.
1:11:33But all it really requires is-- all it requires
1:11:36is the vast change in thinking that
1:11:38says I'm not going to think about the app
1:11:40until I'm done figuring out what I have to say.
1:11:42- All right, thank you for that.
1:11:43- You know, and the guy works hard and it's a good app
1:11:46and I want to support him.
1:11:47These are the kinds of apps that have made my life good.
1:11:49And again, I'm not trying, I don't mean this as a sales job
1:11:53so much as to say like, you know, philosophically,
1:11:55if there are apps that mean the world to you, you know,
1:11:58get out there and support them
1:11:59because that's what it takes for them to stay alive.
1:12:01- That's true.
1:12:02- I'm all for people, you know, charging for their work
1:12:04and I would pay for this every year, no sweat.
1:12:07- All right, I will check out version five.
1:12:09I'll put links in the show notes to their blog posts about what they're doing.
1:12:12Uh, you ready for some ask upgrade?
1:12:15Oh, I certainly am.
1:12:16Wait, what's the sound for that?
1:12:18Is that choo choo choo?
1:12:19There's some lasers that happened, but they're warming up now because we have a
1:12:21sponsor before that.
1:12:22And I have to admit this is a breaking news in what may be a first for upgrade.
1:12:28We have a followup from a sponsor, James Thompson, the maker of Peacock.
1:12:34He wrote down here, the makers of Peacock.
1:12:36Well, James and Saskia are our TLA systems and they make Peacock.
1:12:39The scientific calculator, I doubt she approved this.
1:12:41- It's the Scottish "we."
1:12:42- I doubt that Saskia approved this text.
1:12:44Anyway, the makers of PCALC, the scientific calculator
1:12:47you didn't even know you needed, would like us to point out
1:12:50that the reverse Polish notation does not, in fact,
1:12:52involve any form of sausages,
1:12:54despite what I said two weeks ago.
1:12:55So just putting it out there.
1:12:57It does not, you don't actually turn around
1:12:59and eat a sausage,
1:13:00and that's not what reverse Polish notation is.
1:13:03I still don't know what it is.
1:13:04- It seems very misleading.
1:13:05- Let me go on, because this is basically,
1:13:07this ad is going to explain why I'm wrong.
1:13:09RPN is actually an alternative way of calculating where you enter the numbers
1:13:12first followed by the operator. So 6 enter 7 multiply would give you the
1:13:19ultimate answer of 42. It was popularized by Hewlett-Packard with their desktop
1:13:24calculators in the 70s and 80s and caught on especially with scientists and
1:13:27engineers, so now you know. But you don't have to use RPN with PCALC. Of course
1:13:32that's just one of the many options that let you customize it exactly as you wish.
1:13:36Our friend Dr. Drang has a nice post about how he built his own, like, you can build your own interface.
1:13:43There's an editing mode where you can move and resize the buttons, replace the ones you don't use.
1:13:48So you can literally, like, make PCALC's calculator.
1:13:51It doesn't—it's got a bunch of layouts built in, but you can customize all of them.
1:13:56You can change all of them. It's crazy.
1:13:59And if you bought a new iPad, you may be shocked to know the iPad doesn't come with a calculator at all.
1:14:04Seems like the kind of thing they'd want to include.
1:14:07Seems weird, yeah, but you can get Peacock.
1:14:09There's a light version that's free, contains no invasive adverts as they say in Scotland,
1:14:15or analytics as they also say in Scotland, whatsoever.
1:14:19And if you like it, you can upgrade to the full version and unlock all of the other features.
1:14:22Peacock is available on every single Apple platform.
1:14:27Not kidding. Not kidding.
1:14:29Although, James, it's not yet capable.
1:14:31Okay, let me phrase it this way.
1:14:33- We got it on HomePod, you can get it on Apple TV.
1:14:36- At WWDC, when they announce that you can do HomePod apps,
1:14:39I am telling you the first HomePod app that will exist
1:14:42will be, why don't you tell me that math problem
1:14:45by James Thompson.
1:14:46(laughing)
1:14:47But it is on Apple Watch, it is on Apple TV
1:14:50if you need to do some calculations on your television,
1:14:52and if they ever release those AR glasses,
1:14:55Peacock will certainly be there
1:14:56with a giant augmented calculator in your face on day one.
1:15:00search the app store for pcalc or go to pcalc.com/upgrade for more details
1:15:05and if you're going to WWDC find James he has sweet pcalc pins that he will be
1:15:12giving away
1:15:13he's a very nice man and I will also say sunday sunday at the sunburn monster
1:15:18trucks driving around in the about screen
1:15:21golden bananas
1:15:25I use pcalc this is they didn't tell us to say this I use pcalc every weekday
1:15:30afternoon because my daughter is 10 and she's learning some kind of monkey balls banana
1:15:33pants math that I don't understand. She does factor rainbows, she does all these things
1:15:37I don't understand what the hell she's doing. I don't know how to quote unquote help her
1:15:41but what I do know is when it is time to figure out some wackadoo division thing where she
1:15:45draws a rainbow and a grid I will open Peacock and I will check the math for myself in my
1:15:49head to make sure that I did it right. So thank you to James. Is it the new math? Oh
1:15:54God. It's so confusing. I don't understand it either. There was a whole thing that my
1:16:00both my kids did, whereas like now, you know, cluster the numbers or something.
1:16:03I'm like, what? Is that a new thing? Oh, yeah. You could make a part of the
1:16:07number family or the number story. You're like, well, you're just saying
1:16:09nouns. Like, that doesn't mean anything. What does that mean? They all nestle together and they
1:16:12love each other. When I was your age, when I was your age, we just had to
1:16:16memorize things. Watch out, Merlin. Lasers. Lasers time.
1:16:22Lister Matt says, "In the context of Marzipan and Apple leaving Intel, could
1:16:28apps contain both ARM and x86 instructions? Could apps that contain both be feasible?
1:16:35x86 instructions run by emulation on ARM, but an iMac/Mac Pro, you know, contain both
1:16:42ARM and x86 for native performance? He says we could call them Fusion apps. And what I'll say
1:16:46to Matt is we had these, actually, the last time. They're called fat binaries. We had them for the
1:16:52Intel PowerPC transition. And yes, I would imagine if we're going through a processor transition,
1:16:58one of the things that Apple will let people do is compile their apps for
1:17:05both processor architectures inside the bundle. Now that said, they have done some
1:17:11interesting things with app thinning on the App Store, so it's possible that on
1:17:14the App Store what you'll do is you'll upload both the binaries and based on
1:17:18what architecture your computer is running, only that one will download,
1:17:23right? That may be the modern version of the fat binaries that you upload all the
1:17:27binaries to the App Store and then only the right one comes down. But Fusion
1:17:32Apps, we called it "fat binaries" back in the day and it worked fine. Like, they were
1:17:37a little bit bigger, they were fat, not to shame them, but they were
1:17:40larger because they contain two executables inside. But the bottom line
1:17:43was, you just double-click. When I was younger, I was often
1:17:47criticized for my love of curvy apps.
1:17:49Yeah, well, you know, I love my curvy apps. Back in the day, when we were kids, you
1:17:53could have the like the regular app or the husky app. That was your other choice.
1:17:58They had a whole section for us at Sears. Absolutely, with the tough skins and the agar animals.
1:18:03I'm glad you explained that to listener Matt because I recognize those all as English
1:18:08strings. Remember fat binaries? That was the thing. Oh that I remember. Oh sure. Yeah but
1:18:12this is an x86 arm. There's a lot of confusion going on. It's times of confusion. That's
1:18:17what made me, oh it's absolutely platinum age. That's why when you were talking about
1:18:19the 32-bit stuff I was remembering back when was it not Rosetta what was it
1:18:25called where you could have an old version that would run not an emulation
1:18:29but like all the Microsoft apps hadn't been updated do you remember these times
1:18:32well so there were a couple there's Rosetta which was the code translation
1:18:35where it took a power PC app that didn't have an Intel version and ran it on an
1:18:39Intel processor there was the blue box or whatever they call a classic which is
1:18:44when they were you were running an OS 9 app inside OS 10 and basically in the
1:18:47background hidden away there was a copy of OS 9 running but it would unless you
1:18:54made it it wouldn't show it to you it would just show the app and that app
1:18:58behaves completely differently from all the other apps because it was running in
1:19:01in OS 9 in this emul- not an emulation layer but it was like a virtual machine
1:19:06kind of layer where was running a virtual copy of OS 9 inside OS 10 it was
1:19:10super weird. On the computer power of that time that's mental.
1:19:14Yeah, it worked okay, but again, I think it shows you that Apple's track record of sort
1:19:18of bending over backwards to smooth a transition as much as possible while not being afraid
1:19:23to make them. Like, if they follow that rulebook, then we could probably guess about how they're
1:19:28going to do it for any future transitions they're going to do. They're pretty good at
1:19:31it, historically, but not afraid to make them, but pretty good at taking all the steps and
1:19:37building in compatibility.
1:19:38And they took Kaleidoscope away.
1:19:40- That's true. I was thinking about how Microsoft's doing their ARM version of Windows 10,
1:19:45and it's the same thing. They've got a code translation engine for x86 apps.
1:19:49They run slow, but they run. And it's like, yeah, that's how you have to do that,
1:19:52as opposed to the old version of Windows RT that they tried, where it was like, yeah,
1:19:56it doesn't even try. Now they actually try. It's good. Lister Matthew wrote in to say,
1:20:04"Do you think if Apple do decide to use their A-series chips in the MacBook,
1:20:09they would enable cellular connectivity for Mac, something like an Apple SIM
1:20:13built in and LTE bands. So the idea that maybe one of the things you could pick
1:20:17up if you leave Intel behind is cellular Macs. And I don't think these
1:20:25things are particularly connected. I felt for a while now, like, the big
1:20:30problem to doing cellular connectivity on the Mac is that the Mac OS needs to
1:20:33be updated, to be smart enough to like control who uses the network connection when you're
1:20:39in a cellular mode, like add in a thing. Like I use Trip Mode and they could do something
1:20:44like Trip Mode, although it's a little bit fiddly where like literally you say, "When
1:20:48I'm on cellular, this app doesn't get to use the network because it's photos and it's going
1:20:51to kill my..." That's what's kept me from getting all in on it is it's a little bit
1:20:55like Little Snitch where there's a lot of breaking in time and configuring time. Yeah,
1:21:01in your face for a while when you're when you're configuring it. So now if Apple could
1:21:04do that, I think that's I think that's more likely the thing is Apple really evangelizing
1:21:09developers and saying we're going to do cellular max. And by default, your your apps aren't
1:21:14going to aren't going to be able to use the cell network. And you're going to have to
1:21:17opt in with these very particular things in order for us not to kill the data allowances
1:21:23of all of our users. I think that's what they need to do. Like listener Marco, I it seems
1:21:27it does seem on the one hand crazy to me that they can't do that, especially after you've
1:21:31had a cellular iPad. You know, it's hard to look back. It seems crazy. They can do it.
1:21:34They just have not ever prioritized it for whatever reason. I think it's strange, but
1:21:39they just haven't done it. Do you think part of its battery concerns? Uh, it could be.
1:21:43It could be the battery is part of it. Um, although the, you know, Mac batteries are
1:21:46way bigger than, than like phone batteries. Um, they, cause they use, they use more power.
1:21:51Um, I don't know. I it's, it's, I've heard people say that they thought it was licensing
1:21:56Well, I mean, just because it seems to stand to reason from a logical standpoint that you're
1:22:01most likely to use LTE when you're not plugged in.
1:22:04It's when you're somewhere that's not your house or somewhere that has Wi-Fi.
1:22:07It's true.
1:22:08Although sometimes, I mean, I use, now that I've got LTE in my iPad, I use it in my Starbucks
1:22:11and they've got Wi-Fi, but it's terrible and I just don't bother anymore.
1:22:14I just...
1:22:15I think what blows me away is going and staying at a hotel or going anywhere with that terrible,
1:22:21you know, free Wi-Fi, unprotected Wi-Fi.
1:22:24And the first thing I do and when I'm doing the cost benefit of it, even if it's free
1:22:28is is just do a speed test.
1:22:31And last time we did that when we were in Los Angeles, it was mind boggling.
1:22:35I mean, it was something like 10 times faster to use LTE over the Wi Fi.
1:22:40Yeah, it was crazy.
1:22:42Listener Wayne wrote in to say, couldn't the the creatives that Apple has hired so that
1:22:48can observe them building products for the pro team be the ones who edit all of their
1:22:54TV shows. I don't think that's a good idea. Yeah, I think that's I think there's like
1:23:00in the lab. I think maybe Yeah, could Apple ask for access full access to the professionals
1:23:05who are editing their shows but the way it works is Apple is giving money to a production
1:23:09company and the production companies handing them a finished show that's happening in Korea.
1:23:13It's not a thing where there's in the middle there's some people over at Apple who are
1:23:19editing those shows for them. And I think that that, you know, maybe they could get
1:23:22access to those things, those people. Of all the things where we get frustrated with Apple,
1:23:26one of the ones that I find, and I'm not, I am not pining for a Mac Pro like as much
1:23:31as some of my friends are. I'd love to see it just to know that Apple's still in the
1:23:34game. But of all of the things, that's the one that sticks out the most to me of like,
1:23:39Like, you can't see how people would want a really, really tricked-out desktop machine
1:23:45and a really, really tricked-out laptop.
1:23:48That's the one where, like, that just—there's got to be something strategic behind why they
1:23:52are not doing—especially the kind of MacBook Pro that I'd like to have.
1:23:55Yeah, I don't know.
1:23:57Strange.
1:23:58Strange.
1:23:59I think they're doing—you know, I don't know.
1:24:01They have—I've had a couple people ask—this is not technically an ask upgrade question,
1:24:05I've had a bunch of people say it's sort of like the bigger conspiracy theory, which is
1:24:10that, could it be that the reason that the Mac development has been so sluggish for the
1:24:15last few years is that everything Apple is doing is for this transitional platform where
1:24:19they're going to switch everybody over and it's like we don't even want to make a new
1:24:23Mac over here because in three years you're going to be buying this new thing that's not
1:24:27quite a Mac and that's...
1:24:28This has become the Apple version of QAnon where there's this one thing that explains
1:24:33everything except it doesn't really make any sense.
1:24:35Yeah, and my answer is yes, it is possible. In fact, we know it is certain that there
1:24:41are people, I mean, I don't even have to go as far as secret. Like, I think that I think
1:24:45the answer is yes, Apple has retasked it a lot of its people to work on an ARM based
1:24:51platform. It's iOS, and the iPad and the iPhone. And that's what and that's what is happening
1:24:59there. You don't need a big conspiracy. Could there be people pulled off who are working
1:25:03on getting Mac OS on ARM ready to go or building kind of a proof of concept of future Mac hardware
1:25:10that is kind of hybridized or is running on ARM laptop but running a version of Mac OS
1:25:18or a hybrid of Mac OS and iOS. Yeah, I think it's entirely possible. I don't know if that
1:25:22is, you know, those people getting pulled off is the reason why your particular bugaboo
1:25:29about what Apple is doing is actually happening. That seems less likely, but it's possible.
1:25:36I'm sure they're working on Skunk Works projects, some of which we will never see, and some
1:25:40of which will be the Mac we're using in two years. I'm sure of both of those things.
1:25:46listener Cory wrote in to say, "I want to ask upgrade when we might hear more from a
1:25:51podcast tutorial segment. I would love your input." And my answer there is keep watching
1:25:57the skies, Cory. Myke and I are currently planning, I'm going to pre-promote it now,
1:26:02it's springtime. Myke and I are currently planning the Summer of Fun. The Summer of
1:26:08Fun is returning, the upgrade Summer of Fun. It is returning for a new season of fun in
1:26:14the summer. Fun takes planning. There's a bunch of things going on. So Myke's getting
1:26:17married this summer and going on his honeymoon. And that means that there are huge gaps in
1:26:23the upgrade schedule while he's getting married and on his honeymoon. And then not to mention
1:26:27the fact that I'm going to Europe with my family for a family vacation that ends the
1:26:32culminates in us going to London and being at Myke's wedding. So we have we have a whole
1:26:37mess of a summer schedule. The summer schedule being a mess is what causes the upgrade summer
1:26:41of fun because it forces us to pre record some stuff and come up with some evergreen
1:26:46topics and some special episodes like when we drafted old max that one time that was
1:26:50part of the Summer of Fun. So podcast tutorials right in your wheelhouse. So I think we're
1:26:54going to do a podcasting episode as part of the Summer of Fun. So, you know, I can't tell
1:26:59you when, but I think it will be during the Summer of Fun, so stay tuned for that, Cory.
1:27:04This is a great question. Listener Richard asked, "What's your ratio of compliments to
1:27:10moners for upgrade? Do you get a lot of haters?" And I'm going to say the same thing that I
1:27:16I think Marco talks about on ATP a lot, which is, you know, podcasts, it's a lot harder
1:27:22to be a hater of a podcast because you have to put in a huge time investment and it's
1:27:27harder to just drive by. You get them because it's the internet, but it's a lot harder.
1:27:33And I would say most of the feedback we get is very nice. People are helpful. They tell
1:27:37us things that we don't know. They tell us things that we do know. They give us nice
1:27:42compliments, they have a criticism about something, but I'd say they all, not all, mostly seem
1:27:47so invested in the podcast that they're trying to help or they're trying to provide constructive
1:27:53criticism and I don't mind the constructive stuff. And you know, people are people and
1:27:59they have, everybody's got their weird take on it, but what I really don't like is the
1:28:03people who are not invested, they don't know who you are, they don't know why you're doing
1:28:06what you're doing, there's no context. Like the guy who was complaining to me about my
1:28:12silly post about QuickTime Player 7, where it was like, "You don't understand the context
1:28:19of this, but why not just do a drive-by unloading on somebody else on the internet?" And podcasts,
1:28:25it's harder to do that, and that is one of the things that makes podcasts great.
1:28:29One thing I try to always keep in mind, and I'm not just saying this for clapping, but
1:28:34It's really nice that people listen and there's something special about podcasts and that
1:28:37people get a very strong relationship.
1:28:40If they end up liking it and listening often, you feel like you have a relationship with
1:28:43that person.
1:28:44And sometimes what one might say to somebody else, it feels like you know them well enough
1:28:49that they would know the tone that you mean to strike.
1:28:53So I think a lot of times it's just because people are very, very involved and they feel
1:28:55strongly about the topics that you're talking about.
1:28:59I mean, the only request that I would make is like, let's at least try and misunderstand
1:29:03each other in thoughtful ways. Let's try and assume that neither of us is deliberately
1:29:08trying to be a bad human being. And if we both agree to that, then you can have a dialogue
1:29:12with people. But you know, it's just people, I'm the same way. There's all kinds of times
1:29:16where I almost say kind of silly things to people because I assume they'll know who I
1:29:21am and will get my tone based on the fact that I've listened to hundreds of hours of
1:29:24their podcast when in fact I would just come off as a loon.
1:29:27Yeah, that is, we talked about that after Myke went to PodCon and I went to see the
1:29:31the Flop House Live where, and you were there too,
1:29:36at the Flop House and it was,
1:29:40that is something that is hard to do.
1:29:41- That was a really good conversation you guys had.
1:29:43- Thank you. - That was very good.
1:29:45- The asymmetry of the relationship between an audience
1:29:48and somebody who's making the thing.
1:29:50And it does lead to some weird moments where it's like,
1:29:53I know your voice, I know your anecdotes.
1:29:55Sometimes people know the anecdotes way better than I do.
1:29:58They're like, oh, it's like that time.
1:29:58- Usually, usually. - It's like that time
1:30:01in January of 2016 when you had a problem with your car.
1:30:04- I can't believe you didn't mention that summer job you had.
1:30:06- I'm like, "How do you even know that?"
1:30:09And he's like, "Well, you mentioned on Upgrade episode 28."
1:30:12And I'm like, "Oh my God," right?
1:30:13So that's the challenges, but I've seen it from both sides.
1:30:17So it's the example I gave the other day
1:30:19in Slack somewhere was, you know, I could meet Dan McCoy
1:30:23and I could say, "Hi, Dan.
1:30:25I like your cat, Archie, who I've never met,
1:30:26but I've seen you post your pictures
1:30:28on the Instagram of Archie, and he's great,
1:30:30and I'm sorry about your old cat who died. That was very sad. We were all very sad for
1:30:33you and it's like, yeah, I could do that. That's super weird. But the fact is I do know
1:30:37the name of Dan's cat and I have seen this cat.
1:30:40Oh, absolutely. My daughter and I were hanging out this morning and I got a notification
1:30:45at 9am on my phone that Griffin McElroy's birthday is in two days. And I experienced
1:30:52that on so many levels because my first thought was, oh, and my daughter and I were like,
1:30:57we should send him something with clowns or a mobile phone and like some kind of in-joke.
1:31:00We should send him a birthday present." And then I was like, "You know, we probably shouldn't send
1:31:03him a birthday present. And I probably should not have his birthday on my phone. What is wrong with
1:31:08me? Why do I need to know his birthday?" Now I feel like a creep. - Well, and that's the thing.
1:31:13I think that's, if you're a listener, you have to kind of strike that, that like they don't know you,
1:31:18but you know them and be, you know, walk, walk softly and be, you know, be careful.
1:31:26And then if you are on the other side of it, which I occasionally am, and it blows me away that I am
1:31:31that fortunate enough to have people who like come up to you and tell you they like the stuff
1:31:35that you do, because that is a super special, wonderful thing, right? It's incumbent on us
1:31:41and responsible for us to understand that there's asymmetry and that we are in their ears and that
1:31:46and that they know all these things about us. And that it isn't, it's unusual in terms
1:31:53of like how our brains are wired, but it's nice and normal. And that, and, and, um, I'm
1:31:59really bad at taking compliments. I'm terrible at it. It makes me want to go hide. It makes
1:32:04me want to run away. And I have gotten much better at being able to say it because the
1:32:09truth is I, it is very kind when people say nice things about you, but you have to remember
1:32:14like you don't know them but they know you and I feel like if all of us just know understand
1:32:20what the what the what the relationship is and that like you said these are people who
1:32:25are everybody here is a good person and we're having a good time then then it all works
1:32:30out fine but it is it is a little bit strange let's let's be excellent to each other and
1:32:34that but that's why I also like like being on the other side of it because that was like
1:32:37in short succession I got both sides of that of being you know going up to the people who
1:32:43are on a podcast that I listen to all the time and know all the details about and can
1:32:48say, "Oh, it's like that time," like I had that moment where Elliott Kaelin tweeted about
1:32:51how he was with his kid at Train Town in Sonoma. And I replied back and I was like, "Hey,"
1:32:55and all he did was show a picture of an object at Train Town. And I was like, "Hey, it's
1:33:01Train Town." And I wrote him again and I said, "I'm sorry, I am now Twitter stalking you.
1:33:06It's just that we used to take our kids to Train Town. I didn't mean to like out your
1:33:10location where the helicopters are coming now to get you. That's not what I was trying
1:33:15to do there. But I had that moment where I did cross the line. He was very nice. He was
1:33:18like, "No, no, no. It's a great place for kids. We're up here visiting my wife's family."
1:33:22And I didn't respond, "I know. Your wife's name is Danielle and her parents are from
1:33:26Sonoma County." A little too creepy.
1:33:30So you brought Sammy there?
1:33:32Yeah, that's right. You brought your son? His name is Sammy? Yeah. So anyway, it's a
1:33:37Funny world we live in. I got one more Ask Upgrade. We're going to go out on this one.
1:33:41It's listener Andy who said, "Hey, Myke," who's not here, "Are you planning on covering
1:33:46the Facebook testimony anywhere within the quiver of your podcast? It would be interesting
1:33:51to hear yours and/or Snell's," that's me. He used my last name, "extended take." And
1:33:57Andy, we haven't covered it here. I don't know if we will, given the timing of all of
1:34:01this, but I recommend the download podcast to you, which I do every week, and it posts
1:34:06on Thursday afternoon specific time and we recorded on Thursday morning specific time.
1:34:10It's at relay FM slash download and it's covering the news of the week across all sorts of tech
1:34:15topics and we have covered Facebook there like three out of the last four weeks because
1:34:19it's all Facebook all the time. So if you want to hear and I'm in there, I will endorse
1:34:22that podcast because first of all, the format for it is great. I mean you do a medium deep
1:34:26dive on two topics with really, really good guests. You get such smart. There's the one
1:34:32industry analyst woman you have on, I forget her name.
1:34:36Right, Natalie Jarvey from the Hollywood Report. That's what I'm thinking of.
1:34:39Streaming analyst, right?
1:34:40And of course you get Lisa. Lisa Schmeiser is on there all the time, yeah.
1:34:44Yeah, it's a really good show. Highly recommend it. Thank you, Marlon. All the great shows.
1:34:48Well, Marlon, thank you so much for being on Upgrade. Oh, thanks for having me on.
1:34:51It's always a pleasure.
1:34:53It was so fun, and we have like, there's so much more we could have talked about.
1:34:56I know. We could have gone on and on and on. We didn't talk about Apple leaks. We'll have to do that next time.
1:35:01Dark Sky says it's gonna start drizzling soon at my house.
1:35:03Yeah, that's right. That's right. See, we brought it all the way back around to the weather.
1:35:06It's, yeah, it's looking rainy out there.
1:35:08Thanks to listener Mihir again for having us talk about the weather.
1:35:11Now that we're, now that our cruel anti-weather overlord Myke Hurley is out of the, out of the room,
1:35:16we can talk about the weather on a podcast. This is what people tune in for.
1:35:20That's right.
1:35:21Thank you also to our sponsors FreshBooks, Pingdom, and Peacock.
1:35:26And of course, you can find me on Twitter @JSnell.
1:35:30You can find Merlin on Twitter @HotDogsLadies.
1:35:34And of course, Merlin is the host of Reconcilable Differences
1:35:38on this very podcast network.
1:35:40And I'm the host of a lot of podcasts
1:35:42on this very podcast network too.
1:35:44- It's John Syracuse's show, but he lets me come on.
1:35:46- That's nice.
1:35:47Which one of us was the bad cop today, Merlin?
1:35:49Was it me? Was it you?
1:35:50Am I in the barrel?
1:35:51- See, on this show, I think we're both the good cop.
1:35:53- I think we are, because as we just said
1:35:55about five minutes ago, the important thing is that just to act like everybody is the
1:35:59good cop.
1:36:00Yeah, man, we're all just people.
1:36:01Everybody's a good cop.
1:36:02Yeah, exactly right.
1:36:03Well, thanks to everybody out there for listening to this episode of Upgrade.
1:36:05Myke will be back next week to chastise me about all the ways that I ruined Upgrade this
1:36:09week, but I don't care.
1:36:11It's foggy out.
1:36:13Say goodbye, Merlin Man.
1:36:15Goodbye, Myke.
1:36:16What?
1:36:17[laughter]
1:36:17(laughing)
1:36:19(upbeat music)